Daenerys Stormborn invades & A main character lands in Zumaia (UPDATED!)

Photograph by SUD OUEST

Photograph by SUD OUEST

Production may be nearing its end in Zumaia but that doesn’t mean this week’s continuous bombardment of spoilers is over. Duck and cover if you want to enjoy a pure experience when season seven airs. If you dare, however, we bring you news of today’s filming at Itzurun beach, as Game of Thrones films two momentous arrivals to Westeros: A royal invasion and a returning character. Also, we clear up yesterday’s furtive shoot.

El Diario Vasco comments on the likely reason that yesterday’s shoot was so elusive: Filming focused in the caves, which we knew they would use, against the cliff that rises from the beach and walls it off. This made spying from the cliff impossible. This morning was not so different: Reporting directly from the location, Javi Marcos from Los Siete Reinos reported there was filming taking place in the caves again. It should be clarified, however, that these so-called “caves” are empty; there are no complex tunnels inside. It’s just an unconventional rock formation formed by the flysch. The show may pass these holes off as entrances for actual caves, but nothing more. Whatever they filmed in the area, it had to be about characters going in or out, because there is nowhere else to go.

Now, the Daily Mail releases PAP4U‘s new photos, showing Unsullied and the whole Targaryen crew heading to the cliff area —In a rather hilarious fashion, too. You are awesome, Conleth Hill. Just awesome. What would we do without your funny faces!

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UPDATE: Julien Reynaud brings us another look at the queen’s return to her birthplace:

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Going by the cast and their clothes, this is likely supposed to be Daenerys’ landing in Dragonstone, a scene which continues when she and the others ascend to the castle, which was already filmed in Gaztelugatxe, where the Unsullied were spotted last. Director Jeremy Podeswa is alongside the cast. Podeswa is directing the premiere and the finale, which means Daenerys arrives in Dragonstone in the first episode.

El Diario Vasco also tackled the involvement of the local Telmo Deun rowing club, as well as Mark O’Donovan, who isn’t only a world-class Irish rower —He is also described as an actor, which most likely means he will have a few lines. Why else bring an English-speaking rower all the way from Ireland, when there are so many native oarsmen? Obviously, the club was mainly hired to bring main characters to shore. However, you might have noticed the oarsmen have technically only been working on land, filming arrivals once the boats are already on shore and departures before actually sailing away. That changed this afternoon, when they filmed Jorah’s arrival in Dragonstone. Again, the Daily Mail provides us with PAP4U‘s juicy ultra-zoom pictures of Ser Jorah, though it’s possible he’s being played by a stuntman in this scene instead of Iain Glen:

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Before jumping into the comments, we remind you all again to take into account those in the community who might have read these spoilers but may not want to know anything about other ones, especially those never reported in Watchers on the Wall. Please, ONLY discuss what is what is revealed, mentioned and linked in this report. Possible leaks MUST be discussed in the forums. Failing that, spoiler-tag properly.

317 responses

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    1. So was it Jorah’s arrival they wanted to film at night?
      I can’t think of any reason to film in caves except for dragonglass.

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    2. ghost of winterfell:
      So was it Jorah’s arrival they wanted to film at night?
      I can’t think of any reason to film in caves except for dragonglass.

      Maybe the dragons are in the caves, but yours is a good guess too.

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    3. ghost of winterfell,

      It’s more of a cave-like entrance. They are no actual cave tunnels. It’s just a weird formation, a hole created by the flysch. There is no real tunnel. That may be a set, or another location. They may use these flysch “caves” for a cave entrance though, that was my thought 😉

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    4. So, Daenerys’ arrival was filmed in the caves, from where her forces took the Dragonstone forces by surprise, and claimed DS as their own. This has to be Episode 1 and Podeswa as the director. Jorah must come later.

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    5. West of moon,

      Them coming in or out. I should have clarified these caves are really small, there are no tunnels or anything. They may pass them off as entrances for complex caves in the show, but whatever they filmed in the cave area, it had to be going in or out, because there is nowhere else to go.

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    6. So the supposed super secret cave scene is related to Daenerys arrival? Don’t know why, I thought it was something more important. I wonder what happens in it.

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    7. So the cast is on their way to shoot in the caves ..
      If its for dragonglass then wouldn’t liam and kit present along there with them..

      Oops forget :
      ” welcome home Daenerys Jelmazmo”

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    8. Luka Nieto,

      OK. So it will likely be used as a cave entrance. If they were filming there this morning and Dany’s arrival was also being filmed today morning, would it mean that the cave scenes involved Jon/ Davos?

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    9. Luka
      when does the filming starts in italics and will you be there at the location..

      And will there be filming in zumaia tomorrow or today is the last day..

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    10. Haha! I love Conleth. Emilia is so goofy too! Love it! I’m sure they had tons of fun together. It’s a bit of distance from the camera but Jorah looks rather healthy! 🙂

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    11. Luka Nieto,

      I hope its something different and have a meaning to Targaryens which will affect dany rather than dragonglass
      That will explain it. .

      So we have all the characters arrive and leave by rowboats ..are they really going to have this arrivals and departure.
      At this rate we will be having a scene either one arrive or leave dragonstone in every episode..

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    12. dragonbringer,

      Though there are conflicting reports, there should be filming tomorrow too.

      And no, I won’t be at Itálica when filming begins there (Not that my proximity to Zumaia has meant much, as I haven’t actually visited the set during production.) And it will begin soon. Filming in Sevilla and Cáceres kicks off pretty much as soon as it ends in Zumaia. Well, a few days later.

      Dreide,

      You’re right, it may be a stuntperson.

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    13. Kay:
      So, Daenerys’ arrival was filmed in the caves, from where her forces took the Dragonstone forces by surprise, and claimed DS as their own. This has to be Episode 1 and Podeswa as the director.Jorah must come later.

      Who even own Dragonstone now? It wouldn’t be Stannis’ forces, I mean in the books Loras takes DS and gets his face melted.

      But in the show…was it ever mentioned what happened after Stannis’ defeat?

      dragonbringer:
      Luka Nieto,

      I hope its something different and have a meaningto Targaryens which will affect dany rather than dragonglass
      That will explain it. .

      So we have all the characters arrive and leave by rowboats ..are they really going to have this arrivals and departure.
      At this rate we will be having a scene either one arrive or leave dragonstone in every episode..

      They can film scenes out or order too, then just re edit then when making the actual episodes.

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    14. thats a really good double for ian.. soon as i saw those pics earlier I knew that was supposed to be Jorah…

      “caves” maybe entrance to the dragons lairs? or secret tunnel into castle itself?

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    15. Mawk,

      Dragonstone’s fate hasn’t been mentioned. Some of Stannis’ forces could remain, as one would assume the Lannisters taking over would’ve been mentioned. But who knows, it might be mentioned at the beginning of season seven before Daenerys arrives to Dragonstone. Or maybe they’re going to ignore this issue altogether, and Dany will find the castle largely empty.

      So… Who knows!

      Name *,

      I was surprised by how many pictures we got of Zumaia, considering the security, so I don’t even know anymore! But if I had to guess, I’d say it will be much easier to completely lock down production in Almodovar del Río and Itálica’s amphitheater, as they are filming in the inside of these buildings. Los Barruecos and Las Breñas may be exposed, though, and when they film in Cáceres City we’re sure to get a lot of pictures from the locals.

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    16. To Jenny.

      About our last debate. I don’t like these travelling at speed of light because for Jon going North, South and North again. I understand he’s trying to do a good thing but this is getting out of hand. It makes sense for Jon to be there at dragonpit because it concerns Northerners as Davos’ presence suggets. But we’ll know more when filming starts next week at Sevilla/Italica.

      If Kit is not thre,. Liam is there alone, means Davos was sent South again.

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    17. I’m also pretty sure the person in the boat isn’t Iain Glen. The costume is also strange for Jorah as it is straight pants and his character has never worn anything that didn’t have a kilt or an overcoat that would go to kilt length (like the beginning of season 1). Looks closer to ironborn costuming. The rowers look like maester type clothing though…

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    18. Newbietothegame,

      Apollo,

      Yeah, a dragon lair is a possibility too.

      Yet another possibility could be that Dany sends some of her men through these caves into the castle to take it for her, if the castle is held by somebody else, either the Lannisters or by people loyal to Stannis.

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    19. Luka Nieto,

      Ah makes sense. Man, can’t wait for this show. Vikings soon will tie me over till Game of Thrones comes back.

      Geralt of Rivia:
      To Jenny.

      I prefer the speed of light travel myself…I feel like when you see the characters traveling you get into the walking dead filler episodes, where its just traveling and the writers have to fill in script and it becomes boring filler. I’d much prefer them just to get to the meat of the episodes, especially with only 7 episodes. Vikings does it too, they skip the ship building and winter and get right into the raids.

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    20. Luka Nieto,

      Thanks for the reply ..

      I thought you were near to italica .
      I was actually wondering whether we will be able to get the same amount of informations and photos about filming in italica like we did in zumaia..

      Iam just hoping we never get a Lena sighting at the location..

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    21. Geralt of Rivia,

      it’s not ok for Jon to travel north/south/north, buy it’s on for Davos to do that? Lol, in Davos’ case, it would be south/north/south/north since we know he is making an extra trip into KL with Tyrion.

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    22. Director Jeremy Podeswa is alongside the cast in these pictures. Podeswa is directing the premiere and the finale, which means Daenerys arrives in Dragonstone in the first episode. Added to the article. Should’ve noticed in the first place.

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    23. Actually, upon further inspection. Jorah’s costume looks more like that of an unsullied than ironborn. Who knows, maybe this is a completely new costume style for Jorah. Did PAP4U confirm this is actually supposed to be Jorah? Perhaps this is someone else arriving we don’t know.

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    24. Jenny:
      Apollo,

      What was this supposed to be again?

      Not sure… I believe there was meant to be a battle filmed nearby in a private estate. Looks like they’re building a set there..

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    25. My first thought in regards to filming in the cave/alcove area was for the mining of dragonglass. But I also like the idea that that’s how the Unsullied enter Dragonstone in order to secure it for their Queen. Kind of like how they breached Meereen via the sewers. Both scenarios work for me.

      Luka Nieto:

      Name *,

      I was surprised by how many pictures we got of Zumaia, considering the security, so I don’t even know anymore! But if I had to guess, I’d say it will be much easier to completely lock down production in Almodovar del Río and Itálica’s amphitheater, as they are filming in the inside of these buildings.

      From the posts a few months ago, I seem to remember there being hills some distance from the Italica amphitheater. I’m hoping (praying really, lol) that the paps and their wonderful zooming lenses will station themselves on those hills (a la the “Go, Beanie” guy at the TOJ set last year) and will be able to capture the filming in the amphitheater. Leaks:

      The filming at Italica is the next big test in regards to the leaks. If the paps can capture Kit and a ‘wight’ filming there then that would also prove the veracity of the expedition beyond the wall. Next week’s filming can’t come soon enough for me.

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    26. BunBunStark:
      My first thought in regards to filming in the cave/alcove area was for the mining of dragonglass. But I also like the idea that that’s how the Unsullied enter Dragonstone in order to secure it for their Queen. Kind of like how they breached Meereen via the sewers. Both scenarios work for me.

      From the posts a few months ago, I seem to remember there being hills some distance from the Italica amphitheater. I’m hoping (praying really, lol) that the paps and their wonderful zooming lenses will station themselves on those hills (a la the “Go, Beanie” guy at the TOJ set last year) and will be able to capture the filming in the amphitheater. Leaks:

      Italica is surrounded by scrub and woodland and I believe it has a perimeter fence (didn’t check that out), but there’ll be heavy security there.. in fact its already closed to the public and we’ve had nothing there for a while yet. PAP4U is resourceful though so lets hope!

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    27. OK. Here are my tinfoil theories.

      1) Dany and co. are filming Jorah’s arrival. I can totally imagine Dany running towards him in such a way and I can imagine Missandei too. Tyrion’s stance can also be explained in this context: his relations with Jorah are rather complicated. However, Varys is a surprise. Why would he be running towards Jorah? Is Jorah his long-lost friend? Several days ago a thought crossed my mind that Jorah could have been sent to Essos to protect Dany from the very beginning, and this could be a proof.

      2) As for the cave sequence, I also think that this will be Dany’s landing on Dragonstone and that the grotto will be turned into an entrance leading into some tunnel. I have checked the photos: it looks too small to be a dragon lair and mining obsidian wouldn’t require professional rowers. Sorry for repetition, but professional rowers imply surprise attack and professional rowers + landing in a grotto which can be easily presented as a tunnel entrance simply scream about that. The question is, why would Dany be taking Dragonstone by surprise attack through the tunnels? Whatever garrison is manning Dragonstone prior to her arrival, it should be forced to surrender as soon as is sees three dragons or even one of them. Hence, I assume that dragons cannot be used: either they have been lost during the earlier battle with Euron, or Cersey has simply has developed an efficient anti-dragon defense (some sort of mega-ballistas or similar), and Dany simply doesn’t want to risk her children. The second question is how would she know about some secret tunnels leading into the Dragonstone castle? I don’t be over-fixed on my theories, but I can’t think of any other answer than Davos. He has been built for this mission by equipping him with sailing and smuggling skills and knowledge of both Dragonstone and the Shipbreaker Bay which may be the path Dany takes to bypass Euron. And it’s legit to assume that Jon will send him to Dany, as soon as he learns about her planned arrival to Westeros. Davos may even meet her in the sea (the fleet of that size would be hard to miss) or things may play out a bit differently, but I am more more convinced that Davos will meet Dany early and facilitate her landing on Dragonstone.

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    28. GDK,

      When I first saw the costume of alleged Jorah I thought of the Unsullied winter uniform, but the man indeed looks very much like Jorah, so I don’t know.

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    29. Jack Bauer 24:
      Jorah is wearing his new costume upon arrival? Where did he get it?

      Why does that even matter? He’s travelled from Slavers bay to (some know where) to Dragonstone and picked up an entourage on the way. Its hardly inconceivable that he’s simply bought some new clothes or has been given them.

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    30. L7R posted a clarification on a scene that was filmed and reported about a few weeks ago. Granted, my Spanish reading skills aren’t all that great but from what I read:

      It turns out that the scene of a person falling into water was not for GOT but for another series filming in the area, Still-Star Crossed. I suppose we can put to rest the speculation that Dany or someone else will fall off of a dragon.

      http://lossietereinos.com/reportaje-desde-el-rodaje-en-zumaia-y-una-foto-reveladora-de-malpartida-de-caceres/

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    31. Jorah went to Oldtown, said hello to his former father in law, and got back into the Hightower health insurance and- BLING- greyscale gone!

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    32. mandzipop: Or because it is colder?

      OR because it finally rotted off his body, could have been greyscale-y, and because dammit sometimes you just want some new duds. It’s allowed.

      Do love his Darth Vader outfit later on though.

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    33. Mawk,

      “Who even own Dragonstone now?”

      IMO, it’s legit to assume that now Dragonstone is under control of the crown/Cersey. What could the garrison do after learning about Stannis’ death? Soldiers need payment, provision, etc. So, declaring or surrendering to Tommen was the only option they had.

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    34. Inga:
      Mawk,

      “Who even own Dragonstone now?”

      IMO, it’s legit to assume that now Dragonstone is under control of the crown/Cersey. What could the garrison do after learning about Stannis’ death? Soldiers need payment, provision, etc. So, declaring or surrendering to Tommen was the only option they had.

      Well as we’ve seen no indication of Lannister men (or even Baratheon for that matter), it’s pretty safe to assume that theory wasn’t on the money ?

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    35. It’s possible Qyburn learned to stabilize Wildfire, but managed to keep it’s potency. This would serve to prevent Daenerys from attacking King’s Landing and provide a logical reason for both Jon and Daenerys to parlay with Cersei. A weaponized version could prove crucial in fighting the Night King’s army, as he couldn’t raise the dead if they’re vaporized. Or maybe they’ll just lure his army into King’s Landing and blow the whole place up with the unstable version. Hence Daenerys vision of the throne room. BOOM! Game Over. Goodbye King’s Landing. Hello, Queen’s Landing. 😀

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    36. Jay Targ:
      So L7R appears to have made a correction to a previously believed spoiler

      You know, this is pretty hilarious.. as per usual, we had folks here blowing this way out of proportion to the degree it became canon and a “long held prediction” that a Dany would fall off Drogon or that someone else would fall off one of the Dragons after mounting them.

      Rolls eyes. Oh wait, there’s an Emoji: ?

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    37. So no Theon

      jumping overboard into the water as per the leak? heh that report about a major character falling into the water had come out weeks before the leak.

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    38. Apollo,

      They are not filming Dragonstone indoor scenes in Zumaia, they are filming them in the studio in NI. How can we know who will be present and who won’t?

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    39. dreamshade,

      They filmed the naval battle with Euron in North Ireland back in September. That was when Gemma injured herself, and that would be when the jump overboard would have been filmed. There was an article posted here about it. No idea where you reached the conclusion that the Malpartida shoot had anything to do with it, as no such claim was ever made in the leaks.

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    40. dreamshade,

      They did some filming in a water-park recently, and main characters can be expected to fall into the water during a naval battle.
      As for the alleged Dany’s fall from the dragon, it will be CGI anyway, so no real need for natural surroundings.

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    41. elybe,

      There was a speculation that Dany will fall off the dragon long before the leak appeared, because over-empowerment is a bad sigh for any character in any story and especially in GoT. There’s no need for a leak to see, what’s obvious: one way or another Dany will have to endure a dramatic downfall and rise from the ashes, otherwise GoT would wrap in 3 episodes, not in 13.

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    42. dreamshade,

      Where did I say that Yara jumps? Only that Gemma injured herself filming the battle scene. And the fact that Sue didn’t storyboard the battle for you frame-by-frame in her post does not mean that Theon didn’t throw himself overboard. Jumping off a ship is about on par with jumping off the battlements of Winterfell in terms of stunt work. You’re the one trying to make a connection between this filming rumor and Theon jumping overboard. Most people here assumed it was someone falling off a dragon.

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    43. Inga:
      dreamshade,

      They did some filming in a water-park recently, and main characters can be expected to fall into the water during a naval battle.
      As for the alleged Dany’s fall from the dragon, it will be CGI anyway, so no real need for natural surroundings.

      There are not spoilers from any sources, including that one, about Dany falling off a dragon. People were speculating based on that false report.

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    44. Inga,

      I like your theory. Makes sense that Davos would tell Jon he could be of use in bringing Dany onto their team with his extensive skills and it would explain why Davos was already there in the pics.

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    45. Inga,

      Jon and Davos arrived together, he’s his Hand or closest advisor. Or do you mean that pic of Kit in the boat and what looked like leaving and might’ve been landing and Davos standing on the beach?

      Emilia, Conleth were just goofing around just for fun or for paparazzis.

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    46. Apollo,

      Agree. And of course no consideration is given to the fact that this filming is out of order, and could be multiple scenes from multiple episodes. It’s tough to connect the dots and try to make this all linear. All of this is generally filmed out of sequence depending on what location makes the most sense for the scene.

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    47. Geralt of Rivia,

      As for Emilia, Conleth, yes, they could have been just goofing around, though it could have been an actual scene as well, especially keeping in mind that the same actors in the same costumes were spotted filming in San Juan de Daztelugatxe and that both scenes would make sense together in Dany and co. go down to the beach sequence.
      But as for Davos, I keep to my point until it is proved to be otherwise: we haven’t seen Davos and Jon arriving on the same boat (in fact, we saw the opposite); and Davos’ joining Dany’s team to play a pivotal role in taking Dragonstone makes sense story-wise.

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    48. follyofdaedalus,

      There is absolutely no way I can imagine Cersei parlaying with anyone for anything … Her children were her world, now they’re all gone. She’s got nothing else to lose, nothing else she cares about, why would she parlay with one person who threatens to take the only thing she has left ? The Throne ?
      For survival ? I don’t think Cersei cares about survival at this point.

      Not to mention Lena is still fighting custody battles for her son with her ex partner, I don’t think she’ll be filming for a while. Leaving right before the trial would be a huge imposition. Does anybody know of her whereabouts aside from the zoo a couple of days ago ?

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    49. Mawk: Who even own Dragonstone now? It wouldn’t be Stannis’ forces, I mean in the books Loras takes DS and gets his face melted.
      But in the show…was it ever mentioned what happened after Stannis’ defeat?

      My first thought would be that the Iron Bank owns it, having called in the loans that Davos convinced them to give Stannis. I thought the IB would play a far bigger part in the outcome of this story, considering the part that banks play in real life. Alas, though, we may see no more of Mark Gatiss as the beautifully portrayed, calculating banker, Tycho Nestoris, as the limited filming time wouldn’t allow for that thread to play out.

      however, if the portion of the leak is true that Jon and company go to Eastwatch by the Sea, and Stannis’s fleet is still there, then I will know this truly is a fantasy. Most of Stannis’s fleet was bankrolled by the Iron Bank. If Tycho didn’t insist on repossessing those boats, as would happen if one of us were to lapse in payments to the bank, then truly fantasy does prevail here.

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    50. Jay Targ: So L7R appears to have made a correction to a previously believed spoiler

      Good to know. Sometimes, we can make mountains out of nothing, or in this case, an incorrect spoiler, so starved are we for news, and sometimes, so eager are we for the fiction in our heads to come true.

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    51. Inga:
      Geralt of Rivia,

      As for Emilia, Conleth, yes, they could have been just goofing around, though it could have been an actual scene as well, especially keeping in mind that the same actors in the same costumes were spotted filming in San Juan de Daztelugatxe and that both scenes would make sense together in Dany and co. go down to the beach sequence.
      But as for Davos, I keep to my point until it is proved to be otherwise: we haven’t seen Davos and Jon arriving on the same boat (in fact, we saw the opposite); and Davos’ joining Dany’s team to play a pivotal role in taking Dragonstone makes sense story-wise.

      You can’t seriously believe that Emilia and Conleth goofing around for the paps (or just between takes) was a serious shoot? I honestly don’t know whether you’re joking sometimes or trolling or you’re simply seeing things that nobody else sees.

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    52. Inga,

      We’ve seen Kit and Liam on the Winterfell set being directed by Jeremy Podeswa for episode 1. We saw them on the shores of Dragonstone being directed by Mark Mylod, who is confirmed to be directing episode 2, and almost certainly episode 3 given what we know of the remaining directing slots and the sheer amount of time Shakman has spent on that beach. So if we know that Jon is with Davos in Winterfell in episode 1, and is leaving Winterfell in episode 2 at the latest, where is the logic in Davos getting there first? Or Davos diving for cover along with Jon when the dragon swoops overhead? Is it possible that Davos simply got out of the boat before Jon and that that’s where Mylod decided to begin the shot?

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    53. Thronetender: My first thought would be that the Iron Bank owns it, having called in the loans that Davos convinced them to give Stannis.I thought the IB would play a far bigger part in the outcome of this story, considering the part that banks play in real life. Alas, though, we may see no more of Mark Gatiss as the beautifully portrayed, calculating banker, Tycho Nestoris, as the limited filming time wouldn’t allow for that thread to play out.

      Wasn’t Mark Gatiss in the shots PAP4U did in NI a few weeks back, where people didn’t identify him? Aside from the bald look, it is remarkably like him.

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    54. Inga:
      Geralt of Rivia,

      But as for Davos, I keep to my point until it is proved to be otherwise: we haven’t seen Davos and Jon arriving on the same boat (in fact, we saw the opposite); and Davos’ joining Dany’s team to play a pivotal role in taking Dragonstone makes sense story-wise.

      If, as you theorize, Davos arrived before Jon on Dragonstone then why

      do they both have their swords when Jon disembarks and why do they both hand them over at the same time? Why would Team Dragonstone have let Davos keep his sword all the time he’s been with them but then as soon as Jon arrives they take both men’s swords?

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    55. Pigeon: Wasn’t Mark Gatiss in the shots PAP4U did in NI a few weeks back, where people didn’t identify him? Aside from the bald look, it is remarkably like him.

      Was he? I’m excited. But was he actually identified? See, if they, the Bank, repossessed Dragonstone, the all the dragon glass belongs to the Iron Bank. But they won’t show that. No time. Dany will just come claim it, la de da, and that will be the end of it. I think I just loved seeing Gatiss stare down his nose at everyone as Tycho, with that semi-sour expression he does so well.

      BTW Pigeon, I thought of you first when it was announced that Jorah was returning. I know your little heart is fluttering at seeing him again. 🙂 I’m happy myself, that he’s back. Love it that Conleth/Varys is showing up as well.

      Don’t disappear during the duration of the off-season, ok? We are gonna need you on here when the filming stops and those looong days before the first show make us all crazy.

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    56. elybe,

      If Davos was at Dragonstone, he wouldn’t have to cover before dragon. He would’ve seen them before. Davos arrived with Jon, likely ep 2. Means episode 1 North and then until ep 5 Dragonstone and who knows where afterwards.

      Inga,

      As people say.

      Why cover before dragon and why give up their weapons if he helped Dany take Dragonstone? Even timeline does’t fit. Dany lands ep 1 and summons lords, Jon or simply Jon goes there on his own seeking her. Why he would he sent Davos in one episode and arrive episode later. Doesn’t make sense.

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    57. elybe:
      Inga,

      where is the logic in Davos getting there first? Or Davos diving for cover along with Jon when the dragon swoops overhead? Is it possible that Davos simply got out of the boat before Jon and that that’s where Mylod decided to begin the shot?

      This. I’m all for speculating but some posters like to make things far too complicated.

        Quote  Reply

    58. Irina Stark,

      You are right, but only partly: survival is not Cersei is up to, but neither is the Iron Throne. What was the rewritten line of that play: “…But now I seek vengeance for Sansa the Whore, and my evil brother Imp,” right? IMO, it’s a very good explanation of Cersei’s motivations: she want’s vengeance and, if she is to leave this world, she will do anything to take her alleged enemies with her. That’s why she seized the Iron Throne. It’s not about power any more, and that makes Cersei extremely dangerous.

        Quote  Reply

    59. Apollo,

      I am not trolling, that I can guarantee. I might be seeing things no-one else sees and I might be seeing them in a wrong way. Yes, that goofing looked unnatural for me, but the photos could have given a wrong impression. We haven’t seen full video, so it’s hard to guess.

        Quote  Reply

    60. Inga: if she is to leave this world, she will do anything to take her alleged enemies with her.

      Lol, yes you are right about that. She did a pretty good job of wiping most of them out, didn’t she? But if her focus is to be clawing her way to Sansa, she will have a pretty formidable enemy in Jon. Her insistence on getting to Sansa might be the issue that tips Jaime away from her. She will be furious at Littlefinger, too, when she finds out how he used the Vale army, which he promised to her, to help Jon and Sansa’s cause in defeating Ramsay.

      Looks like Cersei is going to be around longer than anyone thought, and Jaime isn’t going to kill her for burning down the Sept with everyone in it. He was all for doing that anyway, killing all their enemies and letting them know what the Lannister name stands for. Still, it’s hard for me to believe that

      she will so easily overcome the combined Tyrell/Martell forces, as it has been hinted at. I really don’t believe that bit about her destroying Old Man Tarly, either. He was a ferocious old fart, one of the best warriors in Westeros, according to Stannis. It will be really interesting to see how the writers have her accomplishing such a thing.

        Quote  Reply

    61. Pigeon: This is the guy I meant. I didn’t think it was him at first, but it’s his colouring and rather distinctive nose. But why would Tycho shave his head? Hmm.

      No, that’s not Gatiss. Forgive me for referring to an article on the other site, Winter is Coming. (Ouch Sue, I can almost feel the pencils you are throwing at me) but there was a good article written a few months ago about Gatiss not returning for season 6, which he obviously didn’t, but it talked about him being at a dinner with David and Dan, and saying he’d love to be the last man standing at the end of the story. The Banker, being the lone survivor. And nothing was said about him not returning for Season 7 or 8. So, it may happen, on some small scale.

        Quote  Reply

    62. Haha everyone seems to enjoy filming with Emilia, they are always goofing off.

      So when would Dany go against Euron or is she simply supplying some troops to them instead?

        Quote  Reply

    63. Thronetender,

      I hadn’t thought it was initially, but then once you start thinking about it…lol. Makes sense though, especially with the hair. I reverse image searched the photo in Google and the specific result was “man”. Gee thanks! ?
      Still wonder who the guy is! Considering Tycho’s strange bit in the books, I’d love to see him again. 🙂

      I’ve never set virtual foot on that website, so thank you!

        Quote  Reply

    64. Thronetender
      I can’t remember where I read it or if it was part of the leaks, but there was this idea that

      the Tarlys would join the Lannister forces and hence the Lannisters still have the largest army in Westeros, the odds should be even against the Tyrells and Martells. I guess Dany takes all her forces (Dothraki and Unsullied) to Dragonstone… Why she would do that and not help out in the south, I don’t know. Maybe she wants to come from the North, so that there would be two fronts.

        Quote  Reply

    65. elybe,

      You may be right: Davos could have disembarked 5 minutes earlier – I wrote it myself. And still…
      You see, I don’t trust “leaks”, but I trust HBO and its official In Production Trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFu6PZG1Hps). And there is a map at 1:30 hinting that Dany may make the first landing attempt in the Stormlands. We also know about the big battle near the coast which is supposed to evolve around some wagon train ambush, and that kind of matches with another shot from the In Production Trailer: Lannister banner unfolding over some huge box labeled as “Ollena’s Carriage”. Coincidence? I don’t think so: every shot of that trailer is carefully thought through and might be interpreted as a hint to future events, though not necessarily correctly. However, as for now it really looks like Dany will not only encounter Euron, but also have a big battle on the coast (or rather visa versa: she will have a big battle on the coast, and then encounter Euron). Otherwise I don’t see where that big battle could fit and what would be the point of staging it.

      As for Jon and Davos: yes, they will be in Winterfel in Ep 1, but what if the high stake scene is simply a decision making on how to react to Cersei’s coronation and the pro-Dany rebellion? Ollena may invite Jon to join the coalition, and hence Davos may sail out to meet Dany the same episode. Dany may land in the Stormlands at the end of Ep 1 as well. So, no major contradiction so far.
      Ep 2 may start with Dany meeting Davos and then evolve into a battle both on the land and in the sea and end up with Dany landing on Dragonstone. I don’t know much about script writing, but two hours equal to a full-length movie and they can pack a lot. And then Ep 3 may be Jon’s arrival. Or Jon’s arrival can be Ep 4, and Dragonstone Ep 3 instead: a lot of possibilities.
      So, I know nothing for sure, but I think that the official In Production Trailer is a more reliable source of information than some rather controversial leak.

        Quote  Reply

    66. Myname,

      Italica shooting is next week, right? Probably moving to next location to Sevilla as thei scenes have been filmed. Definitely not leaving Spain because of schedule as shooting continues next week if my memory serves me correctly.

      We know Liam is supposed to be thereand that mean Kit might be too.

        Quote  Reply

    67. Thronetender,

      On the issue of Lannisters and Tyrells…

      Compared to the books, Lannisters have a significantly stronger military, while Tyrells are much weaker. I also have trouble seeing how Lannisters could defeat them so swiftly and easily, but I suppose that it is possible whereas in the book!verse Tyrells are currently magnitudes more powerful and could probably roflstomp all over Cersei and Jaime if they so choose.

        Quote  Reply

    68. Mawk,

      I think it was stated that around half of Stannis’ forces abandoned him after the weather deteriorated and the killing of Shireen.
      Many more also died in the final battle in the season 5 finale between Stannis’ men and Roose’s forces, so I think it is safe to say that most of them desserted or died.

        Quote  Reply

    69. BunBunStark,

      It’s a good point about the swords: I am thinking of that and I have to admit that I have no reasonable explanation so far. I could say it’s a pararazzi trolling, but that doesn’t sound satisfactory, even though taking swords from potential allies looks like a weird idea under given circumstances. Maybe, it’s because Dany will be seeing Jon as a rival initially?
      Anyway, I agree that taking the swords from Jon and Davos doesn’t fit into my speculation. But in such case, who else would know about the secret passages? Varys? Could be.

        Quote  Reply

    70. Looks like there’s some pics of Malpartida props on L7R… and looks like this will be the site of the wagon train ambush that was reported. Watch as those ambush theories get shot down in flames ?

        Quote  Reply

    71. Inga,

      Hey, more power to ya.

      But this fell apart the minute you suggested that Dany lands in the Stormlands. We just saw her arrival scene, and we know for a fact that Zumaia is standing in for Dragonstone. We also know that Jon doesn’t arrive in episode 4, but either 2 or 3, since Mylod directed the scene. It’s a simple process of elimination. Alan Taylor is nowhere to be found, and all of Shakman’s scenes have Jon acting like he owns the place.

      You also still haven’t explained how Davos spends all this time with Dany and somehow fails to notice the presence of dragons until Jon shows up, or why Liam has yet to shoot a single exterior scene without Kit apart from his escape from KL in episode 5.

        Quote  Reply

    72. Thronetender,
      Vally,
      Mr Fixit,

      On the issue of the Tyrells and the Sand Snakes, I am not sure whether I have to put on the spoiler tag, because my speculation has nothing to do with “the leaks”. OK, I’ll better do it just in case.

      The Sand Snakes will be taken out early in the season: the In Production Trailer map shows Lannister forces in Dorne. IMO Euron will simply catch them by surprise, because they are bastard girls who want to play at war (paraphrasing LC Mormont. Ollena is more complicated, but if she is still together with the Sand Snakes when Euron attacks, she will simply end up killed or captured because of their stupidity. Anyway the shot from In Production Tailer showing the Lannister banner unfolding over the box with “Ollenas Carriage” implies that the Queen of Thornes will indeed bite the dust.
      Tarlies are a wild card. They may betray Ollena, but they may be betrayed themselves as well. We know that Talla is betrothed to some not very pleasant dude, and possibly that dude would want her to become the only heiress, which implies taking out the father and the brother out of the way. But then the two should end up as Cersei’s prisoners, and I really hope that Sam will be given a chance to save them. Wishful thinking, but I can’t think of a better way to punish them for their cockiness.

        Quote  Reply

    73. Inga: You see, I don’t trust “leaks”, but I trust HBO and its official In Production Trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFu6PZG1Hps). And there is a map at 1:30 hinting that Dany may make the first landing attempt in the Stormlands.

      *SIGH* I’ve said my mind regarding that damn video. I still think you’re trying to pull too much “proof” of this or that from that map making shot and basing entire theories on it, just like you continue to do with other single images. And, with your theories you’re then creating “hints” in your mind to support them because you have to pretend it’s saying something about Dany landing at the Stormlands. There are ship pogs and Lannister pogs being painted. If it actually has any bearing on the actual plot, which I don’t think is much if any, it could simply be the royal fleet attacking Dorne and The Stormlands. It could be the spot where Yara and Theon run into the Cersei-Euron forces after separating from Dany. Either of those are just as possible so one doesn’t have to get all confused in believing the only answer is Daenerys is defeated or turned away from that area.

        Quote  Reply

    74. Green Chili,

      I know for a fact they filmed Dany’s climb up the stairs of Dragonstone in Gaztelugatxe, and that this sequence takes place in the first episode, which is directed by Podeswa (Unless Shakman was there to film his scene for convenience, though I doubt it.) So Matt was probably there for a different scene with the same cast in the same location.

        Quote  Reply

    75. The bald man in that photo was NOT Mark Gatiss. Gatiss is 50 and looks it; this man was much younger, maybe even late 20s, and IMO much prettier too.

      Re: all the comings and goings in the beach scenes–as some of you mentioned, these are likely different scenes filmed for convenience and efficiency at the same location. Obviously, characters might or might not be present in any given scene, though the actors would hang around until their next scene. (That might explain some of the goofing off.) In mediaeval times and even now, rulers would first send emissaries/ambassadors/consuls/legates to work out preliminaries and details before the actual potentates would meet in person. Most likely, at least Davos would have traveled to meet with Dany and Tyrion long before Jon himself would do that.

      About the sword removal, perhaps it was customary in the FORMAL presence of a monarch. It’s a wise precaution–in lots of Westerns the sheriff or marshal has people remove their gunbelts in a town or saloon or other place. Even in Vaes Dothrak nobody was allowed to carry weapons.

      I do hope that Jon in no way renounces his power to Dany. To become subordinate to any other ruler would be a slap in the face to all those Northerners who lost their first king, suffered so much, and finally acclaimed him KITN. The Little Bear would be especially put out. The North rules, okay.

        Quote  Reply

    76. elybe,

      Zumaia is standing for Dragonstone: that’s true. But why do you think that Dragonstone will be her first landing spot? Apart from sentiments and symbolism it makes no sense whatsoever. Her army needs space for deployment, she needs resources to feed that army, she needs to join forces for her allies, and Dragonstone is isolated. It took Targarians a century to make a jump from Dragonstone to KL. I can accept Dragonstone as a place of forced landing, if the initial landing plan is wrecked by Cersei, Euron, or a storm and see the landing happening in Ep 1. But once again: where do you fit the big battle and who would care about big battle, if Dany is not fighting in it?

      As for the dragons, something is definitely wrong with them, if Yara ends up beaten by Euron. It’s absolutely impossible to lose a naval battle or any kind of a battle, when you control of the air. And if Dany splits her forces leaving her best westerosi allies without support of the “aircraft”, she will be the silliest commander of in the history of the fantasy genre. And I don’t know about Davos: he may see dragons from afar, if he joins Dany, and still fall on the ground, if a dragon swoops right over his head playing a clumsy dog willing to greet Jon Targarian.

      OK. I give up my speculations about Davos: Varys can probably play the role of the Dragonstone insider just as well. And I need more leaks about the big battle and the Dragonpit. So far, my speculations are just a theory to work with, and I don’t mind if it proves to be totally wrong.

        Quote  Reply

    77. Thronetender,

      Speaking of Mark Gatiss, I still chuckle when thinking about what he said last year about how Tycho Nestoris should be the last man standing in Westeros because the bankers always win in the end.

        Quote  Reply

    78. Clob,

      I know your point: building theories on reddit leaks is far more plausible. Won’t argue: everyone is entitled to chose the source material he/she likes.

        Quote  Reply

    79. Inga:
      elybe,

      Zumaia is standing for Dragonstone: that’s true. But why do you think that Dragonstone will be her first landing spot?

      Because she and her defective dragons are confirmed to arrive there in the first episode? And the “big battle,” which isn’t actually a battle but an ambush according to updated reports on this site, could happen pretty much anytime after that?

        Quote  Reply

    80. Luka Nieto,

      I wonder if Shakman directed the scene in Gaztelugatxe of

      Jon walking down the stairs to Dany. I thought I had seen Dany wearing the same dress from todays spoilers but I guess it must be a different outfit for that particular scene. The pictures and video make it hard to tell. Though I also don’t see her wearing the over shoulder, half cape thing that we’ve seen from her other outfits. Who knows..

        Quote  Reply

    81. elybe,

      OK. If you (and Luka) say so, I believe you. But landing on Dragonstone is a stupid move, and then no wonder that Jon will have to come and save the day. I hope we will get at least a reasonable explanation of such stupidity.

        Quote  Reply

    82. Inga,

      Hmmm-Kay.

      Well, as I said earlier I wasn’t disrespecting you, only questioning your “theories”… but if you choose to disrespect me and my parents then that’s your choice and says more about you than it does about me. Namaste ??

        Quote  Reply

    83. Inga:
      elybe,

      OK. If you (and Luka) say so, I believe you. But landing on Dragonstone is a stupid move, and then no wonder that Jon will have to come and save the day. I hope we will get at least a reasonable explanation of such stupidity.

      Wait, why is landing on Dragonstone a dumb move? I genuinely think you are overthinking the logistics of it all. I very much doubt the show will touch on all the things you’re concerned about (i.e. resources and space). Also what would Jon be coming in and saving the day from?

        Quote  Reply

    84. Inga:
      elybe,

      You see, I don’t trust “leaks”, but I trust HBO and its official In Production Trailer

      So, I know nothing for sure, but I think that the official In Production Trailer is a more reliable source of information than some rather controversial leak.

      Why on earth people think HBO is going to actually put any potential spoiler info in that video is beyond me. I take the ‘presumed’ leaks (which are not in any way confirmed in my eyes) to have more chance of getting some half-truths and guesses right than HBO giving anything strategic away in plain view.

        Quote  Reply

    85. WEll this is really fun and the only reason I didn’t engage till now is I may become rude and disrespectful..

      Anyways is that all photos we got..where are the actual images of dany and others landing ..I thougt more will be released but obviiusly it didnt
      Or that’s the scene that is scheduled to shoot tomorrow

        Quote  Reply

    86. Oh my, all the comings and goings at Dragonstone and all in one season!

      Time jumps aren’t bad as long as theyare better coordinated than in S6. If say, Jorah is at the Citadel and Jon &Dany are at Dragonstone at the end of one episode and Jorah arrives at DS at the beginning of the next episode, then a span of a few weeks need to have passed for for Jon & Danny too. Similarly, at Winterfell & King’s Landing, those stories can’t be a continuation of one long day in the lives of Sansa, LF, Cercei and Jaime, when elsewhere in Westeros weeks have passed. I mean, THEY CAN do it that way, obviously, but that would just be super lazy writing.

        Quote  Reply

    87. elybe:
      Inga,

      …all of Shakman’s scenes have Jon acting like he owns the place.

      You just made me literally LOL. He does look quite at home on Dragonstone, doesn’t he? Especially when he goes out to ‘greet’

      Theon.

        Quote  Reply

    88. I’m assuming Randyll Tarly pretty much gave away Daenerys strategy in return for The Reach. Jaime would have months to prepare for her arrival, couple that with the element of surprise and it’s not hard to see why the Lannister offensive might be successful.
      Same goes for Euron’s fleet. The dragons were effective in slaver’s bay because the enemy was clear and distinguishable. In a frenzied ambush it would be almost impossible to tell friend from foe. In a situation like that, the dragons could easily become disorientated and start burning Daenerys’ own fleet, aswell as Euron’s.

        Quote  Reply

    89. Pigeon: Why on earth people think HBO is going to actually put any potential spoiler info in that video is beyond me.

      It’s beyond most people. 😀
      It’s no use, really. It’s mildly entertaining some of the time!

      Jay Targ: Also what would Jon be coming in and saving the day from?

      It doesn’t matter from what! As long as it’s JON coming in to save the day and poor, weak damsel-in-distress Daenerys can gratefully look up to Hero!Jon with stars in her eyes. 😉

        Quote  Reply

    90. I thought they would attack Kingslanding in the first or second episode. They could send some people a bit earlier to secure the Wildfire, Varys knows the secret tunnels to enter. If she attacks with all her forces including Tyrells and Martells, the Lannisters even combined with Euron cannot win.

      But apparently she arrives on Dragonstone with only Dothraki and Unsullied, that means the split up earlier. What was the point then in uniting them in the last episode of season 6?

      She spends a lot of time on Dragonstone. Does she ever leave it before episode 5/6? She seems to be there with all the arrivals. I thought she would just use it to land and regroup before attacking.

        Quote  Reply

    91. Chilli,

      Don’t forget that movies are very rarely filmed in chronological order, so who besides the showrunners knows what’s going on and when? 😉

      Go Cubbies!

        Quote  Reply

    92. Kay,

      Don’t like this hero Jon saves Dany. But it happened to Jon many times too. Saved by others Stannis, Sansa or even one of Craster’s daughters.

      Even in the leaks Dany is supposed to save them and nobody raised an eyebrow. But it’s Dany so it’s fine.

        Quote  Reply

    93. Inga,

      But landing on Dragonstone is a stupid move, and then no wonder that Jon will have to come and save the day. I hope we will get at least a reasonable explanation of such stupidity.

      I agree wholeheartedly and I hope we do get a reasonable explanation. If you have as many soldiers and ships as Dany had at the end of S6 (plus dragons for air cover), it seems like you could effectively invade from the safety of Dorne, the Reach, and possibly the Stormlands on land, then use your remaining fleet to blockade Blackwater Bay, then you have blockaded KL on just about all sides from getting provisions from the other kingdoms. You wouldn’t even need to do much fighting, you’d just have to starve them until they rebel against Cersei and / or surrender to you.

      Why would you split yourselves up and go fight Euron separately — surely he could be dealt with after KL has been secured?

      Given, I suppose Cersei could use the wildfire again and destroy KL, but then she will have lost anyway, and what is left for her to be Queen of?

      The only way it makes some sense is if they get ambushed at sea and the fleet gets devastated, and you need to let people rest and recover there or something? I doubt there is even much in the way of any provisions there anymore — Stannis and family weren’t there for the last few years even before they all died.

      Okay, I am not a military tactician so feel free to tear this to shreds!

        Quote  Reply

    94. Even if Euron and the Lannister army is attacking Dorne and The Reach, it’s the ideal moment to attack Kingslanding. The Lannisters will probably stop their attack if that happens and return to Kingslanding. And even if they don’t, why would Olenna or The Sandsnakes care, if all what they want is destroy Cersei?

        Quote  Reply

    95. Geralt of Rivia,

      You mean other than blaming her for the jon taking the mission and being the reason all the deaths occur..
      Or blaming that she gives NK a dragon because of going there .

      From what i have seen people are more interested in why she leaves him and saves everyone else ..when anyone with half a brain can guess why the scene is happening like that …but no we have to have dany in bad light.

      so she deliberately leaves jon behind
      Gives NK a dragon

      Let’s forget that …why is it so surprising that dany comes and help him …isnt that the reason why jon goes to meet her in the first place because he needs her help..

      Add saved by bran at Queen’s crown to your list..

      Its always very curious how mind works.
      We have had one scene ,onescene of drogon coming to save dany ( which is change from the show ) but the way fandom reacted you would think she gets saved by him in every episode every season..

      We have had one speech one speech with dany on drogon…again people acted as if this is what happens in each episode and every season..

      Compare that with the number of times jon is getting saved and giving a speech about the threat…you get what I mean..

      You can say people are complaining now …but all i see is that his fans who dont like the idea of him getting saved and noy by haters .

      And this is getting voiced especially right now because it happens to be dany who saves him..

        Quote  Reply

    96. Kay,

      I wouldn’t mind being a damsel in distress who gets saved by Jon. I think it’s romantic. Down with the feminist mindset that can’t deal with a male being on top once in awhile. And if it happens it doesn’t mean Dany has turned “weak.” Doesn’t matter the gender, people get in situations and need help sometimes.

        Quote  Reply

    97. Alicia,

      Your tactic is perfectly logical. Only reason I can think of for Dany fleet to separate is Euron attack on Oldtown. Landing on Dragonstone is more symbolic then tactical.

        Quote  Reply

    98. dragonbringer,

      I agree, people are always complaining and finding faults to throw at Dany, no matter what the circumstances. God forbid she actually does something useful that doesn’t befit her but others and she’s this sort of messianic saviour figure, that’s would not be the case at all. It would mean she’s actually doing something useful appart from taking walks in DS.

      ygritte,

      I very much want it to be a sort of equal situation between the two.

      Even though I do like the idea of Dany saving everyone on her dragon I hate the idea of her leaving Jon behind, I highly doubt it’ll be intentional if that proves to be the actual script

      I’d love to see Jon help her for once too, no matter the context, it would give him a chance to prove himself in front of the Silver Queen. It’s not a sign of weakness – needing help. It’s a sign of wisdom, she cannot go through this alone.
      I want them to enter the last season as equals, if they ruin their relationship I’ll f*ckin cut a b*tch.

        Quote  Reply

    99. Irina Stark,

      She ended slavery not for her own sake but for others. She was messiah figure before, still is. She gave them freedom.

      Besides, this concrete case is nothing more than deus ex machina because how would she even find them, flight North wher she’x never been GPS signal? Also she’s got bussiness with Cersei and this whole mission sounds weird thing.

        Quote  Reply

    100. https://instagram.com/p/BMI4or0Afoj/

      A picture from dinner last night in San Sebastian.
      Davos and Jon are still there with Dany, Tyrion, Greyworm, Varys and Missandei. My question is .. why ? I thought only the Dany crew was filming there yesterday and today, Alfie is already in Belfast.
      Maybe they shot some indoor scenes ?

        Quote  Reply

    101. Geralt of Rivia,

      I know, it sounds fishy to me too.

      That part along with ressurected zombie dragon and Cersei buddying up with everyone are the hardest pills to swallow for me, I just can’t.

      And I hate it when people complain that Dany is saving others. Hello … it’s kinda her job you know. Who else would do it ? Everyone does it for themselves, Jon for his family, Cersei for hers (well what’s left of it) only the Dany crew does pro-bono kingdom work and we should be grateful not put her down.

        Quote  Reply

    102. Irina Stark,

      Hardly they shoot any indoor scenes in Spain: they don’t have a set for that, it’s all in NI, as far as I know. But Davos will be involved in the Dragonpit sequence the filming of which starts on Monday, so it makes sense that Liam remains in Spain. And if Kit is there too, we can expect Jon in the Dragonpit as well, which makes sense as he sailed from Dragonstone on the same boat with Davos and clearly as the leader of whatever mission they are supposed to undertake. So, no big surprise.

        Quote  Reply

    103. Myname,

      Ok, so if Jorah is there too, and Liam and Kit are still with Emilia and the rest of the happy posse, maybe Jon Davos and Jorah go to the Dragonpit too and the Dany will follow with her crew afterwards. It would make more sense for them than

      hunting for a wight

      That theory is so silly I can’t even deal. That along with the

      ressurected zombie dragon ice NK mount stuff

      Here Jon, go south then north then south then north again !
      I mean come on !

        Quote  Reply

    104. I’m hoping we get some photos of the dragonpit filming, including one with the director, and it’s NOT Podeswa on set but one of the other directors (Taylor or Shakman.) People should know why.

        Quote  Reply

    105. Luka Nieto:
      Green Chili,
      I know for a fact they filmed Dany’s climb up the stairs of Dragonstone in Gaztelugatxe, and that this sequence takes place in the first episode, which is directed by Podeswa (Unless Shakman was there to film his scene for convenience, though I doubt it.) So Matt was probably there for a different scene with the same cast in the same location.

      So you seem to be pretty sure that Podeswa is directing the first episode…

      @Luka, could you please do me a big favor and point out to me which one is assumed to be Podeswa on the set pics from yesterday cause I’m really not sure!

        Quote  Reply

    106. moon-lau,

      Filming might have ended yesterday from what I understood, given that they were at dinner with the writers last night like they were in the first evening when they arrived (and whom we haven’t seen again since) I’ve heard that today they will probably keep the set open for visitors and fans and while that happens everyone will be leaving for Seville.

      dreamshade,

      I read somewhere that the Italica set is very protected from fans and the papz, aside from some background casting announcement and a wodden deck construction on top of the hole in the center of the ruin, we really don’t have much to go on. I imagine it’ll be much harder for fans to take photos of the Dragonpit than it was with Dragonstone.
      I just want to see Jon there with Dany honestly.
      I need my power couple !

        Quote  Reply

    107. Apollo,

      That is always the case. Except for battles, or any other setpieces that involve dynamic crowds who may appear up-close (e.g. Cersei’s walk), they rarely hire hundreds of extras. If I had to guess, as always, there will be maaany more Unsullied in the background, as well as Dany’s fleet. We really shouldn’t worry too much about how things look during filming, especially in these kinds of scenes, which probably involve a lot of CGI.

        Quote  Reply

    108. Irina Stark,

      The Northern crew may have other scenes in Spain yet, even if they are done with Zumaia (which we don’t actually know for sure.)

      dreamshade,

      Why not Podeswa, exactly? Aside from the botched Sand Snake fight, which he had extremely limited time to shoot as well as other restrictions (the Alcazar being a UNESCO site), he has done everything beautifully. His work in “Kill the Boy” in Valyria, for example, is just amazing. Sansa’s wedding ceremony was as beautiful as it was horrific. Jon’s resurrection in “Home” was just like a painting. And on and on and on.

        Quote  Reply

    109. dreamshade,

      Yeah, I’m expecting to spot Alan or Matt.

      Luka Nieto,

      I pray that’s the case. I hope they’re not done filming together and I’m crossing my fingers to see Kit there as well, we know for a fact Davos and Gwen should. The dynamic on set is just absolutely wonderful. Better than I ever expected.

        Quote  Reply

    110. Irina Stark,

      Leak spoilers

      The wight hunting, if true, would be before they go to the dragonpit, because that’s where they are going to show the wight to Cersei. But I also hope it’s not true.

        Quote  Reply

    111. Chilli: What was the point then in uniting them in the last episode of season 6?

      The point, as I understood, was that Dany and Yara did not have enough ships to get everyone to Westeros after she burned the Master’s fleet. So the Tyrells and Martells sent some ships over.

        Quote  Reply

    112. Irina Stark,

      People would like to turn this into gender and feminism issue..but no its not.

      I don’t think anyone here has any problem with dany being saved by jon …
      But it should be realistic and the story progressing must be in a way that it is believable .
      But what these theories are making is just wanting to have jon on top of everything and save everyone eventhough he is not in power nor position to do it..
      Which just come up as a wishful thinking with no understanding of the character or the story .

      The thing with stannis arriving at the wall was built up whole season and LF arriving with Vale was been built up for two seasons ..
      Similarly

      If dany is supposed to go and save them .then i hope we are given a proper reason and not just as a surprise arrival to save the day..

      God I hate the whole wight hunt mission

      dreamshade,

      I just hope even if we didn’t get the photos and videos like zumaia ..we can get at least who are the cast present at the site because that will give us some idea to what is actually happening ..

        Quote  Reply

    113. dragonbringer,

      Come on now. A great majority of fans are blaming Jon for the expedition. There were a bunch of discussions about him on freefolk and even here people were pointing fingers at him.

        Quote  Reply

    114. Flayed Potatoes,
      Leak spoilers

      I don’t blame Jon (he is way too cute to blame him of anything 😉 ), I blame the writers to invent such an unbelievable plot after what he’s been through at Hardhome. I really hope it’s not true, or that he has a better reason to go beyond the wall

        Quote  Reply

    115. Chilli,

      That’s why I never like this leak and whole mission they go to in order to convince cersei..

      All they have to do is make varys tell the information about secret passageways And prepare a team and capture cersei and qyburn ..
      That should put an end to whole fear of her unleashing wildfire ..

      And annoying thing is that

      they go on a secret mission inside KL but not for this reason instead they go for convincing Jamie .

      Regarding dany she may go and come to dragonstone more than we know because unlike others who are dependent on boats to transport ..dany doesn’t need those.

        Quote  Reply

    116. Flayed Potatoes,

      Like chilli iam blaming writers ..
      But at the end of the day jon won’t be blamed that much because he is fighting for people who sees the bigger threat and wants to stop the petty wars and stop wasting the soldiers in those petty wars and make everyone believe ..
      He will be in much better light than any other characters because he is left woth no other option and others not believing in him..

      I dont frequent reddit so i dont know..i was speaking from what i saw here in another post yesterday .

        Quote  Reply

    117. Chilli,

      Convincing dany shouldn’t be that difficult when you know how much dany has experience and seen in magic..
      And its one of the parts I don’t like if they go to mission to convince dany

        Quote  Reply

    118. Love Dany’s new outfit plus the Unsullied Targ inspired outfit

      Will be a Jorah stuntman, actor would be involved on shore-based boats

      Dragonstone invasion will occur in E1 but Ser Jorah will perhaps get there about E5 or 6? Would expect him to be elsewhere getting a cure in the meantime (Asshai or Citadel IMO)

      Bit of a question as to when King Jon Snow gets there, maybe E3 or 4…

      , reckon Theon and Yara/Asha who aren’t in the pics must split off in E1 and get there for E3 or 4 as well

        Quote  Reply

    119. dragonbringer,

      Just hear me out. Dragons are well documented and are known by everyone to exist. Also, this may sound stupid, but I don’t think that dragons are considered “magical” but rather creatures that naturally exist in the world, at least before they went “extinct.” So it is a possibility that Dany would not believe in the White Walkers, an 8000 year old myth that is only spoken about in the North for the most part. Just saying, its possible.

        Quote  Reply

    120. dragonbringer,

      It would be equally as bad if Dany would just believe some outlandish story from someone she has never met before and who controls a large part of the Seven Kingdoms and who must have his own agenda. She is the invading force after all from the perspective of the Westerosi nobles.

      It is totally believable and makes her a better ruler if she is doubtful and asks for any sort of proof.

      I mean, come on, you wouldn’t sent your forces to some foreign country just because someone tells you some story. What if it is…a trap?!

        Quote  Reply

    121. Rhaenys Stark,
      Thank you 🙂
      People put #hashtags in everything they post lol so I find these pictures on twitter/instagram through the hashtags, like zumaia/kitharington/jonnieve/khaleesi 😛

        Quote  Reply

    122. Vally,

      Yes it will be bad I agree with that..
      And I never said she must believe him straight away.
      She can take some time and question him more about the others and speak with other peoples like jorah tyrion Mel ..
      But at the end of the day she will come to think what jon says is believable and he is trustworthy and he has nothing to gain by lying about it.

      But dany never believing about it and jon is forced to go on a mission to convince ..i can’t see that ever happening ..

      And the stupid thing about that part is if she didn’t believe in this then why she goes there herself

      The funny thing is Ned ,Robb,NW,Lords of North and south all took seasons to believe in this and some didn’t believe that at all….

      Why would anyone has to believe right away now ..its normal to take sometime ..but people are being not fair in wanting dany to believe right away just because jon says so..

        Quote  Reply

    123. dragonbringer,

      Me too !! Omg ! I hate the

      wight hunt mission

      with a passion ! It’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard and I hope it’s not true.
      Also, I want to see Cersei go all ape sh*t crazy queen style not

      parlaying with the invader because she fears for her life.

      We need to see what happens in Seville, that’ll be the moment when we can start actually putting the pieces we have so far together.

      arvgar,

      We all do friend, we all do !

      dragonbringer,

      I just wish they’d stop being so salty regarding Dany and be more open to her and Jon being EQUALS. It’s not that hard now, is it ? No matter who saves who, I want them to be on the same page, as they have been so far.
      Resurrection, mercy, survival – the writers played it beautifully till this point.
      I hope to sweet adorable seven pound baby Jesus they don’t mess it up from now on !

        Quote  Reply

    124. Irina Stark:
      Geralt of Rivia,

      I know, it sounds fishy to me too.

      And I hate it when people complain that Dany is saving others. Hello … it’s kinda her job you know. Who else would do it ? Everyone does it for themselves, Jon for his family, Cersei for hers (well what’s left of it) only the Dany crew does pro-bono kingdom work and we should be grateful not put her down.

      Pro bono kingdom work! That’s a classic right there. Also, agree with everything you said.

        Quote  Reply

    125. Irina Stark,

      I was hoping for that as well..finally we can move on with the story where people are being equal and respected as such..

      I thought we would be over with all the mad king and stuffs after BOTb because there is nothing really left to have tyrion bring up …they even had tyrion knowing about why Jamie killed aerys..

      But Based on couple of things from the leaks like

      tyrion and varys doubting dany because she attacks the lannisters on impulse and tyrion worried for having tarlys executed And this wight hunt

      I don’t have high hopes .

      Rygritte,

      You know what I want to see
      dany to ride a white wolf on top of Drogon

        Quote  Reply

    126. Irina Stark,

      Jon does everything for family?? He had the chance to do something for his family for the first time in S6. Prior to that, everything he has done, going undercover with the Wildlings, defecting back to the NW, saving the Wildlings, I would put all of this under the pro bono kingdom work as well.

      All these comments complaining about Dany hate, and yet I cannot find a single comment in this thread where anybody is actually hating on her (except for one person) , lol.
      Leak spoiler:

      based on the reactions on social media, I would say Jon is getting at least 80% of the blame for the Wight catching expedition, yet people are cribbing about Dany getting the blame!

        Quote  Reply

    127. I actually just read some comments now and I have some questions. First I have used WOTW as a reliable source now for a couple of seasons. The people running it seem to have accurate information. It was mentioned here that Brienne of Tarth will be in a dragonpit scene with Davos, Dany, Tyrion, and I can’t recall who else. But how does her presence fit in to what I just read? Isn’t Brienne a sworn sword for Sansa Stark? Why would Sansa send her all the way down to Kings landing of all places? It must be something pretty big if Brienne was sent to enemy territory. It’s as if 1 + 1=3 and I am very confused. How does Brienne’s presence fit in to all of this? Why is she even in a scene with these other characters? That is one question I haven’t seen an answer for, as far as predicting future events goes.

        Quote  Reply

    128. ghost of winterfell,

      I would say the blame is to be shared if that theory proves to be real and there is a lack of trust between the two. Jon was frickin’ ressurected and Dany has had numerous encounters that involved outworldly forces and magic, like I said in a previous comment, ice zombies are really not that incredible. It would be dumb on both parts and I hope, from the bottom of my heart, that the

      wight hunt mission

      is fake.

      But about that pro bono kingdom work …
      moiaf,

      Everyone had a clear reason why they do what they do. Cersei was all about her family, Arya to get her vengeance, Brienne to fulfill her vow, the Hound to get even and Jon even though I love him to pieces wnd he’s my favourite character, he fought at the Wall for so long, he didn’t really care what went on in the southern part of the realm, he dealt with the wildlings and Mance and Stannis specifically because he was in the Night’s Watch, he didn’t care who was king, who was in the Small Council, who was marrying who for what purpose, he cared about the Watch and his vow anf then when Sansa appeared his priorities shifted towards Winterfell and his family. Maybe things will change this season once we see him take on the role of the KITN, we’ll have to wait and see.
      But Dany, even though she made some dumb decisions and poor choices sometimes, was all about the others, freedom, the realm, the people.

      In an ideal conclusion, I want both her and Jon to rule, married, with a son with silver hair and black eyes but since that is as plausible of an ending as are aliens being real and, I must see the big picture and decide between the better person (Jon) and the better person for the job (Dany).

      I’ll get a lot of hate for this but for me, the choice is clear.
      The choice between what we, ME INCLUDED want (Jon) and what the realm needs (Dany)
      Dany’s sole purpose in life is the good of the realm and it’s people, as is the case with Varys and now Tyrion.

      That is why I am so excited about those two interacting, it will be F*CKING GLORIOUS !!

        Quote  Reply

    129. Jenny,
      Yes we will find out when season airs. But there is all this other speculation about other future events which i wont mention and this particular HUGE missing piece doesn’t rear its head.

        Quote  Reply

    130. Irina Stark,

      What makes you think Jon is not a good choice for the job and Dany is?I think they both care for the people the same.Jon literally died because he wanted to save people.He would make a great king and frankly has way better temperament than Dany.

        Quote  Reply

    131. Jenny,

      Because it’s what she wants more than anything and it’s what she had been preparing for this entire series. Jon doesn’t give a crap about the Throne. I’m not saying he would be a bad fit, he would be a great fit but Dany would be a slight better one simply because she’s had the training, the right advisors around and it’s what her story had been about since the very first episode.

        Quote  Reply

    132. Some weird debate seems to be forming around some idea of Jon “saving” Dany

      This is all rather cringeworthy, there are times where regardless of who one is they need help from friends and dare I say “saving”

      I find it hard to think of any scenario where Dany requires Jons help or dare I say “saving” but if it does happen so what, Jon has already been saved by Ygritte when captured by the Wildings and vice versa when climbing the Wall, Sansa has been saved from a mob by the Hound, Sansa saved by Reek/Theon, both saved by Brienne, Jaimie saved by Brienne…Arya saved by the Hound, Gilly saved by Sam

      Jon has been saved by Tyrion in season 1 etc etc etc etc and if Jon ever did help Dany or vice versa I’d imagine it would similar, eg about building trust

      Eg going back to Jon and Tyrion season 1, they meet in the Courtyard as outcasts and form a friendship at the beginning of Jons journey, now they are slowly becoming more legitimate and influential over affairs. Same can be said of everyone in Dany’s show Entourage.

      Same can be said of Jon and Dany in book and show versions as they are very similar, eg Jon just wanted to be a Ranger and Dany to live the simple life with the Red Door, indeed they may even bond over Dragons as I reckon Rhaegal bonds with Jon,

      Grand scheme of things I reckon Jon is closer to Arya, with Ghost and Nymeria reigning over the Wolf Pack over winter

        Quote  Reply

    133. Asoiaf fan,

      Well from a writing persepective I think the writers want her to be there to influence Jaime in some way and converge their stories again.From a story pov they will give her a reason to be there which I suspect will have to do with Sansa

        Quote  Reply

    134. Jenny,

      In the event that I see a change in him this season (and I highly suspect that will be the case from the photos we’ve seen) I will suspend disbelief and agree with you, but until then I stand by what I said. In my eyes, she’s a slight and I repeat slight better fit. I love them both to death though and I don’t want to even begin to imagine a world where one exists and the other one doesn’t.
      My little heart couldn’t handle it

        Quote  Reply

    135. dragonbringer,

      What does Jorah know about White Walkers? And Mel is perfect stranger herself.

      No one should believe it right away. That was my whole point.
      She may come to trust Jon a bit more because of some Targ-dar. Moving your whole campaign around, completely changing your objective on the account of a few persons you have never met before, would be the dumb thing to do. And why wouldn’t she go to see it with her own eyes? She would be the one responsable for the decision to march north instead of south, so she has to be the one who is convinced by this. It doesn’t take anything away from the character.

      But to have her believe these stories, just because we as viewers, know they are true, and we want her to do the right thing, is kind of a biased approach really.

        Quote  Reply

    136. oh nice Theon and Euron.

      The leak makes it sound Theon only interacts with Euron once. On the ship during sea battle before Theon jumps overboard when Euron pulls a knife to Yara’s throat. And there’s no mention of Euron on Dragonstone.

        Quote  Reply

    137. Jenny,

      I really want to see some kind of resolution in jaime and brienne’s story so i hope that can happen. I hope he pulls away from cerseis toxic influence somehow, but I dont want to put my wishful thinking into this. I use foreshadowing alot on the show and unfortunately a scene with Braun from season 5 concerns me. These scenes occur for a reason. Also jaime did tell brienne that cersei wants sansa s head on a spike. That being said, cersei doesnt seem to have any humanity left in her now which is extremely concerning. I think she wants all her enemie’s gone. I am basing this on show as well as behind the scene discussion from dave and dan.

        Quote  Reply

    138. Chilli,

      Wait a minute, people are complaining about something Jon might will be doing, on something we haven’t seen yet, based on speculation over a few leaks that lack needed context to put it all together? I don’t get that,am I missing something?

        Quote  Reply

    139. Asoiaf fan,

      I agree with the whole Cersei thing. She has nothing left to lose, there is nothing she cares about … I want to see more of that.

      If she does show up at the Dragonpit to parlay with Daenerys I will be very dissapointed. To build up such an exciting character and just lump her with everyone and make her seem like just one of the people who fears for her life would be, in my opinion, an absolute waste.

      We’ll have to wait and see what happens this week in Seville.

        Quote  Reply

    140. Alicia,

      When Stannis was petitioning the Iron Bank for money Tycho Nestoris even remarked on the fact that Dragonstone didn’t produce enough wheat, barley and beef to feed an army, even one as small as Stannis’s 4000 men. Stannis explicitly stated that they produced “none”.

      Daenerys landing her entire fleet at Dragonstone would make absolutely zero sense.

      The majority of her men have to land elsewhere in the Seven Kingdoms. She may take Dragonstone to use as a base for her operations once she has already made some headway elsewhere in the Seven Kingdoms or once she has consolidated her allies’ territory.

      But if the producers have her take Dragonstone first and foremost then it’d be absolutely garbage writing.

        Quote  Reply

    141. Irina Stark,

      I definitely agree with you on that. And sending brienne down into cersei controlled kings landing to parley with jaime is like sending brienne to winterfell when it was under ramsey’s control. We have 2 monsters we are dealing with here: one from the north who is now thankfully gone (ramsey) and one who is currently sitting on the iron throne. Sansa herself said in season 6 that she was taken from one set of monsters and sold to more monsters.why in Gods name would she do that to brienne?

        Quote  Reply

    142. Irina Stark:
      Jenny,

      Because it’s what she wants more than anything and it’s what she had been preparing for this entire series. Jon doesn’t give a crap about the Throne. I’m not saying he would be a bad fit, he would be a great fit but Dany would be a slight better one simply because she’s had the training, the right advisors around and it’s what her story had been about since the very first episode.

      I dont see that at all, she is burning down people, Tyrion is the one who holds her back. Jon is a good guy at heart, with the right advisors he would be great for the throne.

        Quote  Reply

    143. Vally,

      we are in agreement mostly..
      Jorah I believe would have had a conversation with Sam and he can tell whthere these guys can be trusted or not ..
      In the books we see her having dream and such and if marwyn and others come with the truth she would want to help..

        Quote  Reply

    144. ash,

      You’re not missing anything. It’s just more of the usual – forecasting doom based on speculation, incomplete information, and no context or knowledge concerning how anything will actually be executed. Like how everyone thought it was “stupid” that Jon would personally be going to Hardhome when that info leaked (when in fact Season 5 depicted him as being the only character at the Wall who was actually making sense), or how people immediately wrote off the BotB as underwhelming and dull based on a bare bones description provided by an extra.

      If history is any indication, the plot points generating the most rage now are going to be gushed over in about eight months. Or at the very least prove most initial speculation to be dead wrong. Remember all the bitterness over the upcoming Stark civil war? Looks like Jon peaces the fuck out of that storyline about five minutes into Season 7. Remember how Jon was Dany’s “prisoner” one day and freely roughing up one of her allies the next? Just ride out the latest wangst wave. It’s the natural order of things.

        Quote  Reply

    145. Apollo: Sorry to have to say this (truly), but Podeswa was scouting the area a few months back

      http://watchersonthewall.com/details-spain-new-game-thrones-locations/

      well, still wasn’t it hinted that there would be more than one dragonpit scene? Da leak only has that one with the wight in the finale. Other director on that set besides Podeswa would disrupt things. The whole expedition sounds like something from a Michael Bay movie. Even if visually stunning it’ll be so nonsensical.

        Quote  Reply

    146. taim,
      From what I’ve seen Daenerys is always using strategies that results in lowest causality. For the people under her command, it doesn’t get better than that.

        Quote  Reply

    147. dreamshade,

      People on instagram/twitter are saying they’re filming scenes with the greyjoys, it looks like a fight scene between Theon/Euron, it’s only the greyjoys who are there, I believe that Zumaia could also be the Iron Islands, but thats my opinion. It could be Dragonstone too but there are no Dothraki or Unsullied there :/

        Quote  Reply

    148. taim,

      Yes, Tyrion is a good guy who also murdered two people in cold blood, one by strangling and the other with a crossbow. He also had no problem agreeing to re-starting slavery which Dany was completely against. He also stood by and often supported his nasty family while they did disgusting things. But he gets away with it all because he is supposedly smart and funny. Don’t even get me started on all the disgusting things he says and does in the books.

      I can argue that Dany killing the slavers is perfectly reasonable because they want to benefit off of slave labor and she is in a war that she doesn’t want to lose. You can argue that Tywin was a monster who got what was coming to him for being a monster, same with Shae. The real point I am making is that no one’s hands are clean on this show and not one person on the show can hold a moral high ground over anyone else, especially Tyrion effin Lannister.

      Actually, Shireen may have been the only one, but she was a kid.

        Quote  Reply

    149. Kay,

      I’m as blind as you are, I’m afraid 😉

      There will be a report when there is something meaningful to report. I very much doubt that’s Euron, though. I think that’s just Theon struggling with an ironborn underling who doesn’t respect him. But we’ll see. I’m not sure of anything yet.

        Quote  Reply

    150. Irina Stark,

      Just because Jon doesn’t care about claiming the throne, that doesn’t mean he hasn’t received training to potentially rule. It’s just that in his case his training is better concealed because his parentage is also supposed to be a huge secret. He can’t go around talking about his potential claim because he doesn’t know he has one in the first place. He’s also had better mentors than Dany (I’d take Jeor over Viserys any day). Dany isn’t the only character in this story whose purpose is the good of the realm you know.

        Quote  Reply

    151. elybe,

      Ok, good, just making sure. Carry on…..

      I do have to say I am excited tho – seeing all of these characters together, the possibilities are really endless. I bet the writers go crazy with all of the choices to be made. Lets hope they are good ones (or at the least entertaining)

        Quote  Reply

    152. I can’t see Jon and Daenerys ending up together unless Jon’s heritage never comes to light. Although, that would probably be the most constipated story arc of all time and I doubt they’ve built up the significance of his parents, only for it to remain hidden.

      Daenerys’ manifesto has always been about breaking the wheel and usurping conventions. How would continuing a sexual/romantic relationship with your nephew represent anything but a return to Targaryen elitism? The very mindset that was the root of the problem in the first place. Rhaegar was against continuing the problematic Targaryen traditions, hence his likely marriage to Lyanna and the arrival of Jon. Aegon created a divide between north and south by forcing Torrhen Stark to kneel. Rhaegar wanted to heal the rift through a union of Ice and Fire.

      Her brother died for this belief and she herself is against the sins of her ancestors. It makes no sense for her to forsake her own principles once the truth of Jon’s parents comes out. Her final betrayal, the one for love, would be her breaking her own heart and letting Jon marry Sansa, this would complete her brother’s legacy. A pact of Ice and fire. Uniting the north and south.

        Quote  Reply

    153. The identity of the leaker

      Has the possibility of the leaker just being a Dothraki extra been entertained? We’ve had spoilers from extras during each off-season. And many of them embellished what they knew. Seems like extras like to do that. So if he’s an extra on Dragonstone set, it’d explain him knowing so much about that location (the exterior scenes that is) while his other spoilers are vague and sketchy and at times inconsistent.

        Quote  Reply

    154. Does Dragonstone sit atop a volcano, or something? Obsidian is volcanic rock. There are hot springs in the far north too, the one where Ygritte and Jon got to know each other…that can only mean underground volcano.

        Quote  Reply

    155. follyofdaedalus:
      1) Aegon created a divide between north and south by forcing Torrhen Stark to kneel. Rhaegar wanted to heal the rift through a union of Ice and Fire.

      2) Her brother died for this belief and she herself is against the sins of her ancestors. It makes no sense for her to forsake her own principles once the truth of Jon’s parents comes out. Her final betrayal, the one for love, would be her breaking her own heart and letting Jon marry Sansa, this would complete her brother’s legacy. A pact of Ice and fire. Uniting the north and south.

      1) If anything Aegon united the Seven Kingdoms, while Rhaegar (mostly his father, Aerys II) divided them.

      2) In this scenario who would be representing the south? I’d say neither of them; Jon is described as being more of the North than any of his “siblings”, and Sansa, who at the beginning loved the idea of the South, never truly felt comfortable there and she longed for Winterfell. Also which southern houses would back Sansa? IMO the most logically way to unite the north and south is through Jon and Daenerys.

        Quote  Reply

    156. follyofdaedalus,

      Daario? He could easily be betrayl for love because he loves her. I understand you ship Jon and Sansa but you’re reaching a bit. Besides The Pact of Ice and Fire was mlost likely forged already by Rhaegar and Lyanna.

        Quote  Reply

    157. Flayed Potatoes,

      Its not one person in this thread …there were another two in previous post.

      Iam telling you if one character that is going to come out of this mess of plot in a better light ..its going to be jon..

      Flayed Potatoes,

      It would be more appropriate to say that while jon had jeor…dany had jorah
      Another parallel between them having a Mormont on their side

      She may have been raised by viserys but she was never like viserys nor she learned anything from him other than the actual history of westeros..

      From the very first chapter we see how dany is aware of the surroundings and has an ear for whats the talk on the streets ..
      She doesn’t fully trust a person like illyrio ..
      I mean for someone who was raised by viserys she seems to have eight idea of what queesnsgip means how queens should be and their duty

      Why do the gods make kings and queens, if not to protect the ones who can’t protect themselves..

      Yesterday a wagon had been overturned and two of her soldiers killed, so today the queen had determined that she would bring the food herself. Every one of her advisors had argued fervently against it, from Reznak and the Shavepate to Ser Barristan, but Daenerys would not be moved. “I will not turn away from them,” she said stubbornly. “A queen must know the sufferings of her people.”
      Suffering was the only thing they did not lack.

      “A queen must listen to all,” she reminded him. “The highborn and the low, the strong and the weak, the noble and the venal. One voice may speak you false, but in many there is always truth to be found.” She had read that in a book..

      “Your Grace?” Ser Barristan prompted, gently. A queen belongs not to herself but to her people. “I need Hizdahr zo Loraq

      These are just few among many of her quotes which shows her views

        Quote  Reply

    158. follyofdaedalus,

      First of all Dany is all pro marrying in the family.She explicitly says in the books that she would marry Aegon if he was alive and she has never shown any adversity to that practice of her family.Neither has Rhaegar for that matter.He didn’t marry a family member only because there wasn’t any avaible.And he didn’t want to heal a rift between the north and the south he just wanted to fulfill the prophecy that’s why he went with Lyanna.

        Quote  Reply

    159. Jay Targ: 1) If anything Aegon united the Seven Kingdoms, while Rhaegar (mostly his father, Aerys II) divided them.

      2) In this scenario who would be representing the south? I’d say neither of them; Jon is described as being more of the North than any of his “siblings”, and Sansa, who at the beginning loved the idea of the South, never truly felt comfortable there and she longed for Winterfell.Also which southern houses would back Sansa?IMO the most logically way to unite the north and south is through Jon and Daenerys.

      1) Torrhen was known as “the king who knelt”. This is a sore spot in the north and the north remembers. That act set the perception of the south being better than the north in place.

      2) Jon represents the south, obviously. He’s Rhaegar’s son. Jon was chosen over Sansa for several reasons. She’s a woman, she was married or promised to several different houses, each despised by the north and primarily because people believe Jon to be Ned Stark’s bastard. Jon is a Targaryen(South), Daenerys is a Targaryen(South), Sansa is a Stark(North). Daenerys wants to break the wheel, she can’t do this if she marries another Targaryen and reinforces the previous dynamic of Targaryen elitism, with everyone else bending the knee. The only southern support Sansa would need would be Daenerys. All the other southern houses will effectively be wiped out anyway. Jon feeling and looking more northern is irrelevant.

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    160. Jay Targ,

      Perfectly said

      NoomiRapaceIsBetter,

      Shireen ,myrcella .,tommen,all children like once dany and stark kids was ..iam not sure they would have stayed such sweet if they endured the same..

      am making is that no one’s hands are clean on this show and not one person on the show can hold a moral high ground over anyone else, especially Tyrion effin Lannister.

      Thank god someone finally says this.

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    161. Jenny:
      In other news can poor Theon ever catch a break lol

      It seems a fairly consistent theme for poor Theon. Give the man a break (aside from his bones)! ?

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    162. dragonbringer,

      White Walkers are creatures not seen for 8000 years, of course Dany would be sceptical and so swill others.

      As for Jon and Dany debate.

      You know damn well he’s getting blame too after Hardhome, what is out there to go on suicide mission and capture a wight. It sounds like a bad idea and writer would be hatd for it.. I’ve seen with you and others before that everybody is against Dany fans, writers and directors, everybody blames her. No it’s not like that.

      It’s not like she’s giving dragon to NK. We don’t even now if this is true. So leave it at that. As to why, you see Dany save them? never been Beyond the Wall, it’s risky for her and how would she even find them?

      The bit about leaving Jon behind that some people pointed out because she is supposed to care about him so much, that she leaves him there. Of course context could be anything. Whole leaks sounds like some Jon and Dany shipper wrote it. Put detail into their facial expressions about no word on others and for example Archmaester.

      I know you don’t like when Jon is seen in a good light and Dany not. I understand that. Sometimes this or that will be saved by others. Look at Jon and that was my poit. He was saved more than anybody whether deus ex machina or planning like Stannis of Knights of Vale.

      ela,

      With tv probably Dany just before Tyrion and Jon.

      Myname,

      Theon just getting his ass kicked. Maybe he truly deserted and abandoned Yara or did something bad.

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    163. Jenny,

      Jon would have something to say about this. Dany would’ve marrried Aegon as she said in the books. Once his parentage is out in season 8 likely, doubt he’ll want to marry Dany after that. Marriage seems unlikely in next season too judging what we saw, seems rather friendly or formal meetings.

      If they do even fall in love (it’s possible) before because Jon not only marrying but falling in love with his aunt would be too much for him. He never grew up with this tradition and people mistakenly thinks once he’s Targ he’ll be cool with marrying his own family.

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    164. dragonbringer,

      You don’t get it, do you? Jon is going to get a lot of criticism for this. It will be just like or even worse than BotB. He isn’t being portrayed in a good light here.

      If anything, people will praise Dany for saving him and criticize Jon for always being a damsel in distress. Some might be even pissed she’s postponing her conquest to help him. There are already discussions on reddit about this wight hunt. But you yourself said you don’t check reddit and just look here, where there’s one or two posters at most who are saying Dany is partly to blame and then you take those two opinions as the majority.

      Since Viserys raised her, then he’d be most likely compared to Ned (since he raised Jon). Jon still had the better mentors, I’m sorry.

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    165. Amira:
      The guy using Theon like a punch ball doesn’t look like Euron.

      http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/10/29/17/39D7697800000578-3884556-image-a-19_1477757883365.jpg

      No he doesn’t look like Euron. He resembles one of the men who (other filming spoilers)

      arrived on Dragonstone with Theon in the ‘Jon manhandles Theon’ scene filmed earlier this week. Same long coat, close-cropped hair, and beard. Since both scenes were filmed on Zumaia, I wonder if this scene takes place after Jon’s confrontation with Theon and the Ironborn are absolutely disgusted that Theon would allow himself to be treated like that so they beat him up. Because in the Jon/Theon scene he doesn’t look bloody.

      It makes me sad that Theon gets the shit beat out of him again. JFC, how many more physical and emotional beatdowns is he going to have to endure? I get it, no one respects him and everyone he knows hates him – with the exception of Yara and Sansa – but I think it’s fair to say Theon Greyjoy has paid for his sins more than anyone still living. I had hoped this season would allow a small measure of dignity but so far it’s looking very unlikely. My only hope for him now is that he plays a role in the war with the White Walkers and earns a bit of redemption before he dies.

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    166. Geralt of Rivia:
      follyofdaedalus,

      Daario? He could easily be betrayl for love because he loves her. I understand you ship Jon and Sansa but you’re reaching a bit. Besides The Pact of Ice and Fire was mlost likely forged already by Rhaegar and Lyanna.

      The betrayal thing was just a throwaway thought to be honest. I would actually prefer Jon to be with neither of them, but have no qualms with him being with either one. I tend to let the story unfold and enjoy it for what it is. From a prophecy point of view, Jon is Ice and fire. But in a real world sense, he’s Rhaegar’s son. I think people are extremely naive if they think the truth about his father won’t cause problems. His claim on the north is founded on him being Ned’s son, him being Lyanna’s son isn’t going to save his position. This leads to a very likely scenario whereby Sansa has flourished in Jon’s absence and proved herself capable of leadership. Why else would they have Sansa on her own and in control of Winterfell? If not to allow her character utilize what she’s learned. This will be problematic for Jon.

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    167. follyofdaedalus,

      Omg no. Are you kidding me ? Even if, hypothetically, she would agree to marry the man who was her brother her entire life, in order for it to be valid the two would have to consumate the marriage. Do you really think either of them would ever be comfortable with something like that ?
      That would be the absolute worst thing ever.

      They are brother and sister for all they know and even if Jon’s parentage comes out in the open, they’ll still consider each other brothers, please don’t.

      In the event that something romantic happens between Jon and Dany, which at this point, I consider a certainty, it will be without either of them knowing the truth.

      Flayed Potatoes,

      Thank you so much, about 2 hours from start to finish.

      Pigeon,

      I feel so bad for him though .. he’s had such a terrible life for so long … when will it end ? :))

      Myname,

      I am honestly shocked of this too. This changes a lot of what we’ve assumed so far. If Zumaia serves as home for Iron Islands scenes, then he

      first takes a beating from the iron borns then (probably) manages to leave and then he and Jon have their beach squabble ? Because before when he and Jon fought, he got off a boat that was filled with other iron men, so what’s the chronological order here ? He got his ass kicked then instead of killing him they drop him safely in DS ?

      I can’t tell if this is confusing for everyone or I’m just a little slow in comprehension !

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    168. Geralt of Rivia,

      If a group of men going for capturing a wight without knowing exact location where they will be..
      Then it should not be that hard for a girl on a dragon who can fly ..she only has to fly over the north and pick up their trail..

      Of all the issues with this plot dany finding where they are is least of my problem..

      Yes the plot is stupid but we know why he goes ..because he has to stop dany and cersei fighting a petty war and have them united so they can fight WW…so the blame will go away and shifted to other characters like it always does..who knows when the seasons airs it may turn out to be another sansa at TBOB moment

      He wrote a lot about jon and dany yes ..but he was actually throwing shit at the pairing than sounding like a shipper..

      If you have read previous threads you can see people are already blaming dany for the mission who did not have anythjng to do with in the first place ..thats what i was pointing out ..

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    169. dragonbringer,

      dragonbringer:
      Vally,

      Yes it will be bad I agree with that..
      And I never said she must believe him straight away.
      She can take some time and question him more about the others and speak with other peoples like jorah tyrion Mel ..
      But at the end of the day she will come tothink what jon says is believable and he is trustworthy and he has nothing to gain by lying about it.

      But dany never believing about it and jonis forced to go on a mission to convince ..i can’t see that ever happening ..

      And the stupid thing about that part is if she didn’t believe in this then why she goes there herself

      The funny thing is Ned ,Robb,NW,Lords of North and south all took seasons to believe in this and some didn’t believe that at all….

      Why would anyone has to believe right away now ..its normal to take sometime ..but people are being not fair in wanting dany to believe right away just because jon says so..

      I’m with Dragonbringer in disbelieving Jon goes on a mission to

      catch a wight

      in order to convince Dany.

      Dany has strong corroboration of Jon’s story:

      1) Jeor Mormont’s account, sent by raven by Maestor Aemon to the Small Council, which Tyrion was privy to. Tyrion commented that Mormont “doesn’t lie.”

      2) It so happens that Jorah, one of her trusted advisors, is Mormont’s son. Jorah will vouch for his father’s integrity.

      3) Dany is assustomed to magic, asking “What of my magic?!”, in season 2. She also tried blood magic to save Drogo’s life, with a poor outcome.

      It’s good that warnings predate Dany’s arrival as it adds weight to it’s veracity. Dany isn’t scoffing or dismissive about things, like Cersai is, for example. I just don’t see her looking into Jon’s face and saying “I don’t believe you.” The mission would be extraordinarily dangerous and Dany is unlikely to send a valuable member of her team to almost surely die in order to prove something already heavily corroborated.

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    170. Flayed Potatoes,

      oh yes, Jon’s going to get shit for what happens.

      I don’t know what the hell they’re trying to do with him. We’re approaching the endgame, he should be wising up and getting some victories on his own, even if small. Not getting beat up and having to be saved again. We already got that with Bran saving him from Wildlings, Stannis at The Wall, The Vale in BotB, Craster’s daughter at their keep. Enough with this already. It’s ten times jarring because this foolhardy mission won’t even have any pay-off. He’s totally going to be blamed for Viserion even though Daenerys brings the dragons and they’re her responsibility.
      They’re really butchering him. Where is this supposed hero? TPTWP?

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    171. There’s more strong support for the story, that Dany can rely on:

      1) Jon is former Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch turned King. His account is stronger for that reason, among others.

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    172. Thronetender,

      What would the bank do? Good question! Davos and Jon must have stolen at least one of them. In the book the banker is hanging out isn’t he? At the wall or is he just following Stannis?

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    173. Flayed Potatoes,

      He is completely blind to the fact more people are criticising Jon than Dany right now for that plot and it will probably only get worse when it airs, just like he is blind to the fact that Jon got his share of criticism for BoTB. Sure Sansa was criticized too, but to be blind to the number of people calling him a bad commander, bad leader, good only for swinging a sword etc is pretty unfair. Heck, there were plenty of official review sites that were putting Jon down.

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    174. Flayed Potatoes,

      No I get it …that’s his plan so he is getting the most blame( I blame the writers mostly). ..but what iam saying is people always come to the same point ..that jon does it for people ..he was not left with any other choice because no one believed him and focused only their war for throne..
      Who cam come up with an argument against something like that ..
      It may very all happen like what happened at TBOB with sansa..iam someone who don’t blame jon for going for rickon…
      I will give reddit a read when I have time and then I will respond about that..

      If dany does put aside the throne and did help him …then she deserves the credit right…i mean thats what jon wants her to do…and the thing is i dont think she will be getting that appreciation ..people will act like it never happened..

      Yes Ned raised him ..jon got his proper education..
      But my point was dany raised herself …the only one dany doesnt have is someone equiavlent of aemon..but dany doenst have that mentors like that of jon because she actually knows more and learns through experience and her growing up in the streets and as a begger.

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    175. Flayed Potatoes,

      I don’t think anyone knows if the event you’re referring to even happens, and if it DOES happen, what circumstances precipitate it, and whose idea it is.

      I think a certain person is heading north precisely because Dany believes, not because she doesn’t.

      She has Dragons and a massive army. What Dany doesn’t have is a PLAN.

      If anyone heads north, it’s to formulate a plan of resistance. Of her advisors, there’s only one person appropriate for that mission.

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    176. follyofdaedalus:

      2) Jon represents the south, obviously. He’s Rhaegar’s son. Jon was chosen over Sansa for several reasons. She’s a woman, she was married or promised to several different houses, each despised by the north and primarily because people believe Jon to be Ned Stark’s bastard. Jon is a Targaryen(South), Daenerys is a Targaryen(South), Sansa is a Stark(North). Daenerys wants to break the wheel, she can’t do this if she marries another Targaryen and reinforces the previous dynamic of Targaryen elitism, with everyone else bending the knee. The only southern support Sansa would need would be Daenerys. All the other southern houses will effectively be wiped out anyway. Jon feeling and looking more northern is irrelevant.

      looks like sansa better marry dany then

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    177. BunBunStark,

      The problem is that respect and dignity has to be earned. To have Theon’s redemption run smoothly would be a bit of an anti-climax.

      And people were already saying before and during Season 6 that they hoped Theon’s trauma/PTSD didn’t just disappear overnight and the producers actually depicted the lasting effects of Ramsay’s treatment of him. It’s appropriate that he is still facing an uphill struggle to earn the respect of his own people.

      He wasn’t even respected before his time with Ramsay, so to have the Ironborn automatically defer to him wouldn’t be consistent with what’s been shown on the show so far anyway.

      Personally, I have never wanted him to be fully redeemed. I was comfortable with him playing second fiddle to Yara, because I think his story arc was meant to be about coming to terms with not being at the top of the ladder.

      Also, the Ironborn simply falling in line behind Dany, via Yara and Theon, would’ve wrapped things up a bit too neatly for my liking. A few spanners being thrown in the works is fine by me.

      That being said, if Yara bites the dust I will be pretty disappointed.

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    178. Jenny: First of all Dany is all pro marrying in the family.She explicitly says in the books that she would marry Aegon if he was alive and she has never shown any adversity to that practice of her family.Neither has Rhaegar for that matter.He didn’t marry a family member only because there wasn’t any avaible.And he didn’t want to heal a rift between the north and the south he just wanted to fulfill the prophecy that’s why he went with Lyanna.

      When she said that, she was coming from a place of what might have been. In another lifetime she most likely would’ve married Aegon. That doesn’t make her pro Targaryen marriage, she’s just being pragmatic about it. It wasn’t wishful thinking on her part. The only reason we don’t see any misgivings toward the idea, is because she believes all of family are dead and it’s an impossible scenario anyway.

      Rhaegar marrying a family member if one was available, does not mean he was pro Targaryen marriage either. It just means he would be duty bound by the Targaryen, elitist, pure blood mentality. But we can say that Rhaegar married outside of the Targaryen line once and possibly twice. The second one very much by his own volition. We can infer from this that Rhaegar wasn’t a proponent of the pure blood nonsense, and in fact, actively seeked out other bloodlines.

      Uniting the north and south is the key to the prophecy. Rhaegar knew he needed them on the same page(hence healing the rift between them) in order to complete the prophecy and rally behind a child of the union of north and south.

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    179. ghost of winterfell:
      Flayed Potatoes,

      He is completely blind to the fact more people are criticising Jon than Dany right now for that plot and it will probably only get worse when it airs, just like he is blind to the fact that Jon got his share of criticism for BoTB. Sure Sansa was criticized too, but to be blind to the number of people calling him a bad commander, bad leader, good only for swinging a sword etc is pretty unfair. Heck, there were plenty of official review sites that were putting Jon down.

      “more”, in this case, can only be determined by taking a complete count. I don’t think you’ve taken that count, or you’d say “51%” instead of “more”, for example.

      You’re not blind if you can’t see something that isn’t even there.

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    180. dreamshade,

      Omg enough.Jon is literally the most badass fighter in game of thrones but he is not chuck Norris.He can’t fight the army of dead by himself what’s wrong with three dragons saving him?And critizing Jon for this mission Is frankly stupid like it was for Botb.He goes south to make people aware of the ww.They don’t believe him and instead sees they will waste their armies fighting each other.So he has to prove it in order to save everybody.He takes six top notch people with him and puts only himself in danger.Its not the writers fault if people don’t understand that and want to bitch about it on Reddit.As if a story can be done with the characters acting perfectly and everything going their way.And please Jon is the farthest character from being butchered.He is literally the most popular character in the show.Also let’s not judge a thing before seeing it first but even reading the leaks you understand Jon’s position

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    181. ghost of winterfell,

      The reviews for the episode are going to be ridiculous. They’ll be calling for his head.

      dreamshade,

      Basically. Do the writers hate his character or something? I really don’t know what to make of it. Unless he’ll somehow come out on top at the end of this and they’re not trying to make it obvious, but I don’t think it’s worth butchering his character this way.

      dragonbringer,

      Ok so your problem is that someone will think highly of Jon or find reasons to rationalize his decisions and you won’t be able to debunk them. God forbid, someone might actually like this character and understand his decisions…

        Quote  Reply

    182. Anon,

      If that certain storyline does happen then this show will have jumped the shark. It’s just so stupid it’d seriously undermine the quality of the show, in my opinion.

      That’s why I refuse to believe things will go down like that, and why I’m finding the constant references to it increasingly tedious.

      If it’s confirmed conclusively then I guess I’ll have to try and come to terms with it. But to keep reading references to it, based on “leaks” from another site, for another 7-8 months will drive me insane, because it’s just such a ludicrously absurd turn of events for the show to take that I don’t even want to keep having to contemplate it.

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    183. follyofdaedalus,

      You want him with Sansa. Don’t beat around the bush. You really think Jon is going to be with someone who lied, will undermine him at any point. Who he considers sister. That would be another dagger to Jon’s character. Not rulling it out but it would make very little sense.

      Jon is very likely not going to be KitN after season 7 because of parentage, Sansa plotting or simply he’ll already use that title for negotiations. But that doesn’t make him fall in love or marry her. North will likely be devastated after the war, they’re going to feel the wrath of white walkers more than anyone. Their political value will likely be reduced significantly after the war of dawn and who knows who will live and die.

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    184. To add more to the notion of needing a plan. Jon knows they can’t beat the White Walkers by combat…certainly not the kind of combat seen in BotB. Yet, up until the last time we saw him, that seemed to be his plan. They will need ingenuity and careful planning to beat the army of the dead, and presumably, they’ll have that brain trust available soon.

      At some point before the war begins, someone will have to travel north to make arrangements.

        Quote  Reply

    185. ghost of winterfell,

      Iam not saying he dlesntw get blamed at all ..but when its all said and done his actions will be more understandable.
      Right now people can blame jon based on half leaks like the previous seasons..but it will definitely be reduced or completely thrown out once the season airs and we get full context..and iam not saying this in a badway..

      I for one completey behind jon snow in what happened at TBOB..and if you remember I question Sophie’s and writers interviews..
      For me sansa got more blame and Sophie didn’t help it either..and it was his fans who disliked the fact he is being reduced as a sword wielder…
      I did accept I don’t go to reddit so iam talking about what iam seeing here and in westeros.org…so I will give reddit a read when I get time..I just don’t like their format.

      Anon,

      I know right ..iam looking forward to see how they are going to present… Iam hoping its not as grim as in the seasons of 2and3..

        Quote  Reply

    186. Flayed Potatoes,

      Well actually I thought I was one of the later ones you mentioned and I didnt say those things in a bad way at all..all iam saying from the Start is if he is getting the blame now with this half reports based on the leaks..he will be more understandable when we have the full context and whole picture… So the balme will go away ..because we know he does this based on his good heart and intentions..
      Do you understand me .

        Quote  Reply

    187. Irina Stark: Omg no. Are you kidding me ? Even if, hypothetically, she would agree to marry the man who was her brother her entire life, in order for it to be valid the two would have to consumate the marriage. Do you really think either of them would ever be comfortable with something like that ?
      That would be the absolute worst thing ever.

      They are brother and sister for all they know and even if Jon’s parentage comes out in the open, they’ll still consider each other brothers, please don’t.

      In the event that something romantic happens between Jon and Dany, which at this point, I consider a certainty, it will be without either of them knowing the truth.

      Of course they’re not going to be comfortable with the idea of marrying each other, but honestly, who the hell is in Westeros? At the end of the day, they’re cousins. if they have to suck it up for the good of the kingdom, then they will.

      I can safely say Jon won’t be alright with it. But as for Sansa. With everything she’s been through, it’s almost impossible to tell what her mindset will be.

      Obviously Jon and Daenerys are going to get together, but what happens when they find out they’re Aunt and Nephew. Will they continue their relationship? Or will they stop? If they continue, then Daenerys is a hypocrite and both of them would be crapping on Rhaegar and Lynna’s legacy. Rhaegar wanted to unite north and south, not divide them with the Targaryen pure blood, elitist nonsense. A union between Jon and Daenerys would reinstate this very scenario. Pure blood Targs with the north bending the knee again.

        Quote  Reply

    188. dragonbringer,

      What if not? He’ll get the blame if it’ true because he’s leading, he knows what they’re up against and he’s trying to prove it to lunatic Cersei who according to leaks still betrays them. His intetions might be good but that doesn’t mean he’ll be criticized less and people will blame for trusting Cersei even about survival.

      Yeah, hell be blamed just like he was at BotB because blame for Sansa doesn’t exclude or diminish his part for people. He rushed after Ramsay’s army on his own, making Davos pursuing and trying to save him. Also plot armor and not geting killed by those arrows or calvalry saved him just in time. He got a lot of blame. Just go and read and not only on reddit. Also, people pointed out setting up of his formation to be naive. based on that, people want Dany to lead people against white walkers and not him. He’s a good swordfighter and that’s it for them. I even criticized him.

        Quote  Reply

    189. follyofdaedalus,

      This is extremely confusing and goes against what the books have told us.

      Rhaegar and Lyanna’s legacy? We know absolutely nothing about them. All we know with concrete evidence now is that Jon is their son, even though the actual show hasn’t confirmed Rhaegar, we can just deduce that. All of the rest of this is speculation and conjecture to fit a nonexistent narrative that somehow supports a single ship and not the whole story and all of the players involved.

      Also take a moment to reflect on just how horrible Rhaegar’s actions were to his children? He abandoned them completely and Elia. Rhargar’s so called legacy is bogus.

        Quote  Reply

    190. Geralt of Rivia:
      follyofdaedalus,

      You want him with Sansa. Don’t beat around the bush. You really think Jon is going to be with someone who lied, will undermine him at any point. Who he considers sister. That would be another dagger to Jon’s character. Not rulling it out but it would make very little sense.

      Jon is very likely not going to be KitN after season 7 because of parentage, Sansa plotting or simply he’ll already use that title for negotiations. But that doesn’t make him fall in love or marry her. North will likely be devastated after the war, they’re going to feel the wrath of white walkers more than anyone. Their political value will likely be reduced significantly after the war of dawn and who knows who will live and die.

      Jon being absent for a sustained period of time. It’s a problem. An absentee King, is not going to go down well with the northern houses. No matter how well intentioned he is. Littlefinger in Winterfell undermining him in his absence is another problem. The whole point of having Sansa in the north ruling in Jon’s absence is to prove she’s capable of doing so. To finally put into practice the lessons she’s supposed to have learned through her many trials and tribulations. And reclaiming her Stark heritage. I highly doubt that Sansa is going to plot against Jon, it’s more likely that she’ll be the one defending him in his absence. I’m sure she’ll have her doubts, but that’s not going to be enough to have her turn on him.
      What has love got to do with marriage in Westeros? Marrying for duty and seeing what comes out of that is pretty much the best people can hope for. It’s a toss of a coin.
      I can’t imagine the war taking place in the north. It’s more likely going to happen in King’s Landing. Hence Daenerys’ visions of a ravaged throne room. In the north they’d have to fight them in open combat and with an insufficient force. Also winter will be far worse up North then it will be south. There’s no advantage to fighting them in the north, they can use King’s Landing strategically. Blowing up King’s Landing using wildfire while they escape on boats would be much more effective.

        Quote  Reply

    191. Ramsay's 20th Good Man,

      If you remember last season Kings Landing is also low on food as well, the Tyrells were the ones supplying them food so I I.agine no matter where Dany lands the Tyrells are now sending them food instead since they are now allies.

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    192. dragonbringer,

      That the has plot armor. But one scene with arrows just landing around him. It was rather convinient.

      follyofdaedalus,

      She’s going against him and enjoying rulling instead of him. Didn’t you watch interviews from the set. I’ll be really dissapointed in writers or George if someone who is lying to him straight to face, undermine him potentially judging by what producers, cast said. If it wasn’t for this, my only problem would have been they grew up, not as close as Arya, but they did. It’s hard to all of sudden look at person differenly so element of love nah, marrying we’ve seen terrible matches, good matches. We don’t know who wil live, die and how things will shaken up. You brought up love in other posts too. Besides, there is this resemblance of Cat that is just creepy.

      Don’t think King’s Landing is where the last fight is. Dany dreamed of Trident. The North will feel the wrath of white walkers the most of anyone. They’re right there and when they’ll invade they gonna kill a lot of Northerners.

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    193. If Sansa is a good leader why does she bother with LF? Sansa has let herself time and time again be played by that guy that alone she should tell u she should not be leading. And what the hell was Jon supposed to do let his little brother be killed? If he had of done that I do not believe the North would have chosen him as their leader. Politics in the North is different than the South.
      Besides would not be Sansa leading but Littlefinger by whispering in her ear. Also if she had mentioned the Vale a lot more people would have joined them.

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    194. Mel,

      Which is even more reason why it’d be logical for her to have to land the bulk of her forces elsewhere in the Seven Kingdoms to help consolidate her allies’ positions.

      As you say, King’s Landing and the Lannisters have been reliant on supplies from the Tyrells, which is why the Reach will surely be the Lannisters’ first target in their attempts to bring the Seven Kingdoms to heel. Especially with winter now having arrived.

      I fully expect the Lannisters to have the Reach under assault by the time Daenerys arrives. Landing at Dragonstone does nothing to resolve that situation.

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    195. Mickey,

      Yes, I have never understood these arguments that Sansa is all of a sudden an experienced politician? She has been around some experienced politicians but she doesn’t seem to have learned much from any of them.

      From the beginning of her story and up to the present day, she has shown herself vulnerable to manipulation by people who are more cunning than she is. She is a bad judge of character. She consistently chooses the wrong side and then ends up having to rely on other people (who usually are using her for their own agendas that she doesn’t bother to think about) to help her get out of it.

      If the leaks prove true,

      we will see this again when she relies on Arya to kill LF on her behalf.

      I don’t even dislike Sansa but she should not be queen of anything. Plus, I really, really don’t want Jonerys but I’ll take it ANY day over Jonsa. She and Jon don’t really seem to like or trust one another much. I really hope they don’t end up married for political reasons, what an unhappy ending that would be for both of them.

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    196. Geralt of Rivia: She’s going against him and enjoying rulling instead of him. Didn’t you watch interviews from the set. I’ll be really dissapointed in writers or George if someone who is lying to him straight to face, undermine him potentially judging by what producers, cast said.

      Which is exactly why she’s not going to betray him. There’s no way in a million years that they’d give away a major plot point so frivolously. Both the pro-Sansa camp and anti-Sansa camp are guilty of buying into this company line. The pro camp because they think Sansa is some scheming genius and political mastermind, even though she’s done nothing to merit that adoration. In fact, she’s proven herself to be relatively inept in both departments, so far. And the anti camp because they think she’s a whiny backstabber, who’s out for her own end. Plus some people aren’t fond of Sophie Turner and her portrayal of Sansa. It’s because of this that people are grossly underestimating Sansa’s role and her mindset.

      I can say with absolute certainty that Jon wouldn’t be happy about an arranged marriage to Sansa. But what about Sansa herself? We simply don’t know her mentality. If she finds out about Jon’s parentage before he does(which is likely) then she’ll have along while to accept the idea that he’s her cousin and not her half brother.

      Plus I think George is doing the reverse angst version of Jon and Arya from the original outline with Daenerys and Jon. Instead of thinking they’re family and pining over each other until they find out that they’re not half brother and sister, they’re going to go the opposite way with Jon and Daenerys. Jon and Daenerys will think that each other are awesome and have sex, then they’ll find out they’re Aunt and Nephew and become guilt ridden.

      To be fair. With GRRM it will probably end with the WW killing everyone and taking over Westeros and leaving all of us with egg on our faces. 😀

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    197. ghost of winterfell,

      Some are seeing boogie men behind every corner lol. I don’t get it, this mentality. There’s nothing wrong with liking one character more than another. At times I like Dany and at others am very indifferent towards her. I understand she has devoted fans who love her but that doesn’t mean someone who does not feel the same affection should be made to feel bad/wrong. Some posters act like everyone should love all protaganists equally and even explain why they should. It doesn’t work that way, not in real life and certainly not in fiction 🙂

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    198. <a href="#comment-737786″>ygritte,

      We were talking about tyrion and how he is acting like he is above everyone. If you read the books you will know what we were speaking about…

      ygritte,

      Right back at you..you always come up with this response. be it sansa fansa or dany fans or any other fans for that matter.
      ..but when someone says bad about your favorite you can’t take it..

      No one is talking about how everyone should like and love all the characters…its perfectly alright to dislike a character but when you are going to blame a character you don’t like bring a reasonable point to the discussion..

      You blamed dany being the reason all of them are going to die on that mission …but you ignore the next line that she is the one who actually says them ..and when its pointed out that she saves them you jump to her leaving jon alone…

      You just want to find a reason for hating …hating for the sake of hating …
      If you were being reasonable then No one would have a problem with.

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    199. follyofdaedalus,

      yeah, I totally agree on that

      Even thought I’m a huge Sansa fan, I must say that I don’t think of her as a political mastermind or a good player in the game of thrones, she is getting there, but at leat not yet, because we haven´t seen her doing a lot of political stuff, I think in season 7 we’ll see more of Sansa’s political abilities and how she rules over the North in Jon’s absence, then we will decide wether she is a good ruler/leader or not.

      I Don’t think she will betray Jon, her arc is about learning to play the game, how to reclaim her indentity as a full Stark and coming into her own, if she fall into LF’s lies again, I will be really disappointed, so NO, for the moment I’m gonna be rational (or perhaps naive) and I will say that she won’t plot against Jon, even thought D&D want us to believe that (remember last year with the “Jon is gone for good thing”?).

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    200. dragonbringer,

      Why so hostile? I watch Game of Thrones and keep up with filming tidbits because it is enjoyable escapism, and I read the forum to hear people’s thoughts & opinions because it’s a shared interest, and occasionally chime in if I’m in the mood to interact (not too often as I’m an introvert) but when it gets childish and/or opinions taken too personally or seriously (this isn’t a world peace summit and we aren’t at the UN) it ceases to become “enjoyable escapism” and I have no use for continuing that type of conversation. Sometimes real life issues rear their head here and people have healthy debate and difference of opinion but that’s not the case right now as we are just talking about a TV show so….

      Bottom line Dragonbringer: I love JS . YOU obviously love DT. I don’t care if you love or hate JS or DT so why do you care so much who I hate or love? Why does it bother you so when a fellow viewer sees characters and situations differently? And if someone is indifferent to a character why do you label it “hate?” Is it so that you can have a jump starter for an argument? I don’t care how great Dany is I will always be partial to Jon because he’s my grown lady crush and I identify the most with him. Why does it have to be a competition with you always?

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    201. Irina Stark,

      Your point is the conclusion. Dany won’t stay queen, bc all she’s wanted is to “take what’s mine” — and in the end, it will prove to be nothing. Her heart is good. She’s a bit scary though. Have to keep a leash. She’ll be quick to hit the button. Tyrion’s been really helpful to keep her from fire and blood. We’ll see. IMO she won’t make the end.

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    202. Jenny,

      Don’t question your words! THere are MANY meanings for SOng of Ice and Fire. I think one of them is Jon is THE balance. And there is a reason for that. He may be a Wolf with Dragon wings… and that mix, as he learns, especially his endgame, he’ll learn, be a little more Rob, less Ned, in a few ways — like Jon would never send 2,000 men to their graves to win a war. Sansa would. She did. They waited on that hill till the right time to swoop in. Jon is the dude that goes after his brother. So, he’ll have to become a little more dragon, but you are so right!

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    203. Alvaricomg,

      She’s gonna walk the line and make us wonder. She’s gonna play the game, in the North, which they hate… but probably keep enemies close, and snap necks when time is right. . IDK. But GRRM wrote “the pointy end” — directly comparing her to Cersei. And later suggested she’ll become a killer. Now, doesn’t mean that she’ll be evil. It means she’s gonna manipulate to get what she wants. Cersei killed her husband. THings like that. Sansa will kill LF. No doubt. She’s learned how to play the long game. Will she suck at it and die in the process?

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