Major new spoilers about McShane and more in season 6; Game of Thrones plans a premiere and a battle

winterbattle

Saintfield. Photo: @ttowsley/Twitter

The Girona City Council is negotiating with Canal Plus Spain to premiere the sixth season of Game of Thrones in the city. The Catalan city, which has seen a busy filming week, would host the premiere at the Girona Auditorium and Conference Center. The date of the season six premiere is not yet known, but expected to be, as per usual, late March or early April.

Given the significance of Girona and its people in this year’s filming, a premiere in the city would be a lovely gesture.


Game of Thrones filming has returned to Saintfield, Northern Ireland, once again. There were pink-sign sightings a month ago and rumors that the show intended to shoot in the town for a couple months, but no concrete news as to what was planned for the area. Saintfield has stood in for several locations in the show’s history, making it somewhat difficult to guess what’s happening there now without more photos or sightings.

Local man Troy Towsley snapped this photo today, referring to the setting as a battle scene:

 

Towsley noted in a follow-up tweet “lots of horses and extras coming in” as well.

What sort of snowy battle is brewing up in Saintfield? Hopefully more photos and details will flow in soon.


Our sources have come through for us with more exclusive information about a few scenes in season 6.

MAJOR SPOILERS ahead!

We’re not kidding. Look away, if you don’t want to be spoiled!

Ready?

Okay.

We’ve learned that Mace Tyrell will be headed home to Westeros. He won’t receive a warm welcome from his mother, though. Olenna Tyrell will be angry with Mace over Loras and Margaery’s imprisonment, shouting at him for doing nothing about it.  We don’t know yet if it’s the Queen of Thorns or a regretful Mace who orders those soldiers into King’s Landing.

Another exciting bit of news: A very reliable source confirms for us that we’ll be seeing a Stark family flashback, complete with the origin of Hodor. We’ve already uncovered the casting of young Ned; Ned’s younger siblings will be present too.

And as for Ian McShane–  we’ve been told that he is not Randyll Tarly or Aeron Greyjoy. McShane plays a character who has a scene with the outlaw band mentioned in the 2nd casting call, who filmed last month. It sounds like McShane’s role has minimal screen time like they said when he was cast, basically, though they did also refer to his “key importance.” We’ll keep looking to find out more info on this one.

382 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. I knew McShane wasn’t Randyll Tarly! Sounds like he could be Meribald, but that character seems likely to get more screen time than what they are suggesting for McShane’s role?

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    2. An Elder Brother-like character confronting outlaws abusing smallfolk, perhaps? If the episode is toward the end of the season, maybe he’ll return in the next.

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    3. I believed Ian McShane would be Randyll Tarly unless it was confirmed otherwise. So here’s the confirmation. Now for more weeks of intrigue. Never a dull moment with GoT. Not even in the off-season.

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    4. So… McShane just has to be Septon Meribald, right?

      The flashback confirmation is quite exciting. This basically confirms to me that Sam Coleman is playing a young Hodor. The resemblance is uncanny!

      As for the battle, I assume it will involve the Vale and the Boltons?

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    5. Luka Nieto,

      The Hodor news is very disappointing. We want to see a fully-fledged Hodor origin story spin-off HBO, not just one or two scenes. I can only hope this is to test the waters for a full season, but I will be very disappointed if this is all we get.

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    6. Definitely sounds like Meribald now… and he fits the look (at least show style). If he is barely in the show this season, then I imagine the surprise from book 3 will be moved to the end of this season, minus one character… replaced by another.

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    7. Yes! QoT is BACK!!! WOTW I was in Saintield on Sunday and tweeted you some GOT placeholder cards… I thought they were from last month now it’s clear I was wrong. That’s twice last weekend I missed the action :((

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    8. Luka Nieto,

      Well now we know there’s the outlaw band scene. And I’m assuming there’ll be a few scenes with whatever main characters Meribald ends up interacting with & the Quiet Isle material (hopefully). So that adds up to about 4-5 scenes. I’d say a character like Meribald should get at least that much screen time.

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    9. I think that McShane is likely to be a combination of Meribald and Elder Brother. Why keep his character’s identity a secret? Why not change the character’s name if they feel that it will give-away plot lines, etc?

      The comments that I find most interesting:
      – Olenna is confirmed for S6
      – Ned’s younger siblings (!!!!!!)

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    10. Very likely Meribald, which means a very high quality actor will recite one of the highest quality pieces of dialogue in ASOIAF. Excellent. Will he also have any involvement with

      The Hound

      I wonder?

      I guess one other possible option, considering he is interacting with the outlaws, is for him to be Merrett Frey, but seeing as we have had no mention of this character (and the actor doesn’t really fit the part), it’s pretty unlikely.

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    11. Ross,

      If the showrunners truly managed to get McShane for Meribald and they don’t include his monologue, it will be the first decision they made that I’d find completely baffling. Other decisions I found weird —such as Doran not getting his only memorable moments; the monologues revealing his plans. However, that’s still explainable; it may happen in the future, for example. But if they wrote in Meribald and got McShane to play him and the “Broken man” speech is not included… I don’t even know.

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    12. The Hodor origin story in a flashback, I was pretty sure off right from the start. But wrong about McShane being the Mad King. So he has to be this Meribald guy (no idea who he is, not a book reader).
      Good shouting match between Olenna and Mace? Yes, please! 😀 (But hopefully both aren’t killed by Cersei’s machinations after that.)

      What is Trystane up to? Any news yet?

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    13. Awesome news!

      Young Hodor as many people suspected, but new leaks of Ned’s siblings being there as well is nice! Something more than just theory and speculation.. Huzzah!

      One way to avoid casting spoilers would be to film the scenes before the role is announced or the actress is revealed. People would not know who to look for or when. hat Young Stunner role may in fact turn out to be Lyanna.

      As for Mace taking the blame… Poor Mace!
      As if he had anything to do with his kid’s predicament!! Olenna was in KL at the time and it still happened… If any Tyrell is to blame it would be her – Not Mace.
      I personally put all the blame on Cersei! XD

      Ian McShane is not Randyll Tarly (whew) or Aeron (Whew!)…
      Elder Brother is looking more likely than ever! It could be fun to see the outlaws encounter him thinking he is a poor old septon only to discover he is also an ex-military man. Shades of Friar Tuck.

      If not Elder Brother/ Meribald…
      Perhaps he will be a new character that comes into play.. Someone introduced in TWOW?

      Or here’s a wild theory, they recast the Blackfish. As much as I think McShane would have been an awesome Brynden Tully… I don’t like that idea honestly… I would love to see more of the Blackfish, but the original actor, Clive Russel.

      A few more days… a couple weeks and we could know for certain what role McShane will be playing I hope!!

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    14. So he will tell famous Meribald’s speech? It will be good.

      To get such a great actor for one speech! Only GoT can do that!

      Thank you, D&D!

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    15. Luka Nieto,

      That’s probably the biggest reason they would cast McShane as Meribald. It’ll take a good actor to really sell that monologue, and an actor of McShane’s caliber would easily knock it out of the park.

      I imagine he’ll be giving the speech to Jaime since he’s going to the Riverlands this season and Brienne is occupied elsewhere… unless she’s heading south again for some reason.

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    16. In past interviews, GRRM has promised some Hodor lore. I was hoping to read it first…Aaaahhh! Oh well…I’ll watch this next season with my ears closed. :/

      Interesting scoop though.

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    17. I don’t think little Hodor/Stark boys is much of a surprise given the casting call. Too bad about McShane, hopefully it’ll be a fantastic bit, whatever it is! 🙂

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    18. mau,

      I don’t think they will pass that speach, it was among the few things in AFFC that was truly good.

      My speculation; Jaime, for at least early S6 will have a bit of Briennes story from AFFC, mostly maribald, and then go to his TWOW, whatever that is.

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    19. mau,

      I do suspect a bit of trimming, like Renly’s speach to Stannis in S2, instead of saying every house that stood for him, he just said all the reach

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    20. Just another Essos cock merchant:
      Olenna is gonna be a thorn in maces a$$ and I can’t wait to hear it.

      This! She’s gonna rip him a new a##hole make no mistake and it will be a joy to watch. So here’s hoping that its Mace and not Olenna who falls prey to the Red Keep cull. That guy has gotta go! 🙂

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    21. Wow, the news keep coming!
      That battle could be the Vale army vs the Boltons. McShane is most probably Septon Meribald, if not a new character from TWOW, I hope he’s Meribald because I really want his ‘broken men speech’ in the show.
      Also, MORE FLASHBACKS!! I love it, 7 more months.. argh!

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    22. mau,

      With just a bit of trimming, it’s a comfortable 3 minute speech. There have been similarly long speeches in the past (though, to be fair, only by main characters, if I recall correctly.)

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    23. mau:
      Hodor’s Bastard,
      I thought he was joking.

      He stated it around the same time he said Willas/Garlan/Highgarden would be significant. I’m rather intrigued by Hodor lore. Personally, I thought it would come up in the next D&E tale.

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    24. Classic Mace. Ashton-Griffiths described his character as an “old cookie just bumbling along” in an interview last year. I love that description; sums up the character succinctly.

      I’m excited to see a more militarized Tyrell vs. Lannister confrontation. I’ve always thought that in the books some sequence of Martell, Tyrell and Stannis conflict in KL would sufficiently destabilize the city just in time for Dany’s arrival. I wonder if the show is going to condense that destabilizing process into a Tyrell/Lannister conflict. It makes sense to me considering how they treated Cersei’s Feast and Dance plot-lines this year.

      I’m also hoping that the battle pictured involves Northern Houses. In all likelihood, that part of Sansa’s arc won’t happen until later in the season, or even S7, but it would be so gratifying to see her organize the North and “royaly” screw over LF and the Boltons.

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    25. Luka Nieto:
      mau,

      With just a bit of trimming, it’s a comfortable 3 minute speech. There have been similarly long speeches in the past (though, to be fair, only by main characters, if I recall correctly.)

      For this reason (as much as I’d like to see it), I really can’t see D&D commiting that much screen time to this..

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    26. I’d like to think that the Tyrells won’t linger in KL for long. The Crow’s Eye cometh, and the Tyrells will likely want to head south to try to protect their lands from the Ironborn.

      I imagine since Mace will be so ineffectual, Randyll the Mandyll will retain his part in the books where he has the High Sparrow release Margaery (and probably Loras) into his care. That would be a great way to introduce his character in the show.

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    27. The origin of Hodor? O.O The show used make up to cover a tattoo the actor had on his eyebrow… Given we’ll see a flashback… Maybe Robert/Brandon Stark is being a dick to him and hurt him, and Lyanna/Ben/Ned appears? Intriguing…

      It will be fun if after all the hype created by the septon Meribald/ EB hybrid, McShane ends being one of the outlaws or a farmer killed by them LOL. How much is important? 1-2 scenes? More? Adewale… (ok, I don’t remember his name, the former actor known as Mr Eko) said something similar last year and he was just a slaver…

      Battle on the snow? The Others attacking something or it’s too soon? The Vale vs the Boltons? Intriguing too.

      PS. Poor Mace. At least he’s alive.

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    28. More juicy info! Thank you Sue.

      Given the significance of Girona and its people in this year’s filming, a premiere in the city would be a lovely gesture.

      I hope this happens. An S6 premiere in Girona would be great, with all the Spanish locations this year.

      aurane waters:

      lmao tyrell downfall #confirmed in season 6 from what it seems like to me. #get hype

      The Tyrell downfall in S6 could be like the Baratheons in S5 – swift, stunning and tragic.

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    29. Ned’s younger siblings will be present too.

      Benjen!!!!! I care! There are so many questions since season one, maybe we get to know why he actually joined the Watch.

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    30. Mihnea:
      By the way. Anyone knows when we should expect the first trailer? Around 10 Jan. like last year?

      First we’ll have those sneak peaks and visions of the crows, I think.

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    31. Origin of Hodor?? That sounds really interesting. I wonder if we’ll find out what Hodor actually means. It’s probably somehow the key to all this shit or something lol. I honestly think that Hodor is the great grandson of Old Nan and Dunk. I mean we know that Dunk and Egg were at Winterfell and that Bran sees Old Nan kissing Dunk in a weirwood vision. And that’s so cool that we’ll be seeing Lyanna and Benjen. I’m already picturing a slightly wilder version of Arya lol.

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    32. Piyush Sharma,

      Since Brandon is Ned’s older brother, I didn’t include him in my count of Ned’s two younger siblings.

      The post states that Ned’s younger siblings will be making an appearance. Before this post, I don’t believe there was ever confirmation that young Lyanna would be part of the show (only Ned’s brothers if my memory serves me correctly).

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    33. All you “Hodors” are all like, “Hodor” this and “Hodor” that, but in reality none of you care about the real Hodor or his Hodors. Disgusting frauds, the lot of you. Anyway, Hodor don’t surf.

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    34. Robb Snow,

      Nah, they won’t. They will find a reason to hate S6, just like every other season of GoT.

      And GoT will still be the best show on TV.

      Which show can enter the sixth season with so much enthusiasm and fresh content like GoT?

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    35. Lion of Night:
      Classic Mace. Ashton-Griffiths described his character as an “old cookie just bumbling along” in an interview last year. I love that description; sums up the character succinctly.

      LOL, perfect. Mace is the grandparent we want; Olenna is the grandparent we need. 🙂

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    36. Bran’s gonna totally blow up the weirnet in S6. Greenseeing will be all the rage. Listen to the wind rustling through the trees! Listen to the wind!

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    37. Robb Snow,

      We know Tarly will be in Horn Hill by midseason. I don’t think it would really make sense to have him be in King’s Landing as part of the Tyrell party, only to go back home for no particular reason, if tensions in the city are continuing to escalate. It’s more concise to introduce him when Sam meets him.

      I admit, I’m surprised at the show bothering to bring Mace home (though with Arya seeming returning to the Riverlands, that I suppose forecloses the theory some had that she would hitch a ride back with the Lannister negotiating party). The show’s version has been so farcical that I have a hard time picturing him fitting into the tone of the KL crisis.

      As many other have already said, I expect this means that McShane is playing the Meribald/Elder Brother combination that many of us have been guessing will appear. Perhaps introduced as a traveling preacher highlighting the way things have gone to hell in the Riverlands, before eventually it is revealed that he’s got some backup. I’m less clear, at this point, exactly how this will play into the narrative, though. Jaime seems to be heading to the Riverlands, but I’m not sure what the point of Jaime meeting the Hound would be; with Arya returning (probably toward the end of the season), perhaps she learns he’s not as dead as she thought he was.

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    38. Robb Snow,

      Season 5 was nothing but placing characters where they needed to be for Season 6, and was far and away the worst season. Does that mean book readers hate the show? No, it just means we are incredibly disappointed since the first 4 seasons were so well done. Hardhome was by far the best episode of season 5, the fight scene in the pit was corny as hell, the Dorne story line was completely murdered, no Ghost, Stannis decapitated while just lying in the snow, and Jon’s execution had none of the drama from the books and little of the context. That said, its still a great show all in all, Season 5 just sucked (for the most part).

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    39. I thought the winter battle would involve the Vale vs. the Boltons, although something about the description of the lord that turned out to be Smalljon made me think we’d actually get to see him fighting.

      All these battles being filmes and hundreds of extras being cast is crazy. Either the budget got upped yet again, or else Hardhome just hoovered all the resources last year.

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    40. The awesome news just keeps coming! Wow!

      I’m glad we got confirmation we will, indeed, be getting Hodor flashback.

      On a side note, and not really having anything to do with, well, anything…

      I never thought I’d say this about a man in his 70’s (well, at least not until I get close to that age), but that picture of McShane over on the twitter feed…

      Dayum!

      Just…

      Dayum!

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    41. aurane waters:
      lmao tyrell downfall #confirmed in season 6 from what it seems like to me. #get hype

      I’m not quite sure it is really confirmed by all we’ve got this far. And at least we could perhaps rule out Cersei killing Olenna early Season 6 : Mace is still in Braavos in 510, apparently Season 6 picks up immediatly after the last episode, which means Olenna will be here for a moment as the trip from Braavos to KL is not a short one.

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    42. Sean C.,

      You make a good point.

      Honestly, I’m a little worried about how they plan to cram all of this stuff into ten episodes. I can definitely see why they chose to extend the show to eight seasons. I’m assuming the Ironborn will begin their raids at some point… but apparently the Kingsmoot won’t even happen until halfway through the season since Jack Bender seems to be directing those scenes. That leaves five, possibly just four episodes (he’s doing Ep 5-6) to get the ball rolling on that.

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    43. TL,

      oh i think it will happen at the end of the season like the baratheon downfall in season 5 did. but i do think it will happen. i feel the tyrells’ role in the series is ending.

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    44. Philemon the Jamaicon:
      Robb Snow,

      Season 5 was nothing but placing characters where they needed to be for Season 6, and was far and away the worst season. Does that mean book readers hate the show? No, it just means we are incredibly disappointed since the first 4 seasons were so well done. Hardhome was by far the best episode of season 5, the fight scene in the pit was corny as hell, the Dorne story line was completely murdered, no Ghost, Stannis decapitated while just lying in the snow, and Jon’s execution had none of the drama from the books and little of the context. That said, its still a great show all in all, Season 5 just sucked (for the most part).

      We book readers? Please speak for yourself. I loved the books and I love the show. Season 5 was satisfying in many ways.

      Very exciting casting news, Sue. Thanks for all the hard work that WotW does on our behalf.

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    45. Philemon the Jamaicon,

      S5 had its up and and downs and was definitely about setting up the board more than actually playing the game. Hopefully all of the setup will pay off in S6 and make some of the drier parts of S5 worth it.

      I do disagree though about Daznak’s Pit and For the Watch… those were some of the best, most dramatic scenes in the whole show for me. Perhaps some people were just expecting them to be closer to the books and were disappointed they deviated so much. Fair enough.

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    46. mariamb:
      Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Completely agree. I never found McShane attractive…until I saw that photo.

      He was quite the housewives favourtie back in the Lovejoy days…can carry a decent tune too 😛 !

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK-N88cWEPs

      All interesting stuff but I do still worry about the volume of flashbacks planned. The origin of Hodor could be fun but if it’s not crucial to the plot then is it really needed?

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    47. I rewatched S3-S5 this long weekend and honestly, I was riveted by much of S3 and S4 ( but a lot of the eps in S5 were a slog. I am not a show hater at all – I love the show. For me personally, all the religious stuff was very boring, so that made the KL storyline in general a snooze for me. Brienne was such a beyotch to Pod for much of the season, Tyrion was a depressed drunk, Sansa was a captive (again), Arya’s story was more setup than anything else, Jamie didn’t know what the hell he was doing etc etc. The Wall and Stannis storylines were much improved from earlier seasons but that can’t make up for the defects in the other stories. We lost a LOT of good characters in S4 – Joffrey, Tywin, The Hound, Ygritte, Bran and crew (temporarily) and there just wasn’t enough good stuff to fill those holes, imo. We all have our preferences. I would rate the seasons as follows: 1>3>4>2>5 with 3 and 4 and 2 and 5 pretty interchangeable in terms of rankings. I can’t wait for S6 and I hope it blows S1 out of the water!

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    48. mau,

      I guess we’re going to find out!

      I was going to go with the theory that Ser Duncan the Tall is his grandad/great grandad.

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    49. Laura,

      I agree with view towards se5. I missed the hounds presence the most as well as the others u listed

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    50. TheTouchOfFrost: The origin of Hodor could be fun but if it’s not crucial to the plot then is it really needed?

      This!! and we don’t agree that often!! I will like seeing how Hodor became Hodor, but after that, there are so many larger fish to fry. Personally I have never understood the whole Hodor phenom. *runs to avoid a hail of rotten tomatoes*

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    51. Finally news of a winter battle and the focus here is the origin of a simpleton giant?

      Well atleast the 2 month news streak consisting of shots of pots and Arya has been broken.

      #aryaisfiller

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    52. M:
      I thought the winter battle would involve the Vale vs. the Boltons, although something about the description of the lord that turned out to be Smalljon made me think we’d actually get to see him fighting.

      All these battles being filmes and hundreds of extras being cast is crazy. Either the budget got upped yet again, or else Hardhome just hoovered all the resources last year.

      The casting description of the Smalljon makes it pretty clear we will see him in battle, I think.

      In terms of the probable combatants in this scene, it may or may not be meaningful that the actor playing Lord Royce filmed in July and will film in December, but isn’t filming now. Granted, this may just be clashes between extras, etc., and we don’t know whether he’ll actually be with the Vale army or not, though that seems like the most plausible view (particularly since last season explicitly called attention to the fact that Littlefinger has no experience as a soldier).

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    53. Mace is maybe the worse role in GOT. Totally pointless, silly and almost irritating! And maybe the worse casting in the show. A-G looks like much older than Dame Olenna who is supposed to be his mother…

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    54. JCDavis,

      My God neither do i..patchface, for instance is better I’m at least he’s cryptic and might be holding on to some type of info. Is hodors back story gonna be important to the overall story? I’d like to say that the show makes every minute count so that’s hope

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    55. Fanamir,

      Anything is possible..
      Until we hear certain actors are returning I guess they could recast those roles. I prefer not to think of all the past roles that could get recast! XD

      TheTouchOfFrost: I was going to go with the theory that Ser Duncan the Tall is his grandad/great grandad.

      That’s also my opinion. Possibly related to Old Nan as well.
      Of course the show could do something completely different from the books…. I don’t see Hodor’s origin affecting the larger narrative.

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    56. Hoyti Von Totiy:
      Finally news of a winter battle and the focus here is the origin of asimpleton giant?

      Well atleast the 2 month news streak consisting of shots of pots and Arya has been broken.

      #aryaisfiller

      This made me LOL! I have to say I’ve also been wondering how long does it take those set decorators (and let’s face it there are dozens of them if the pics are any indication) to place a few fruit baskets and hang some canopies/drapes on that staircase!? Those fish must stink by now 😀

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    57. After he’s resurrected, Jon might still rally the Wildlings and NW members loyal to him to march on Winterfell at some point. It’s what he intended to do in the books before being stabbed, and Mel did see herself in Winterfell and Boltons banners being burned after all.

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    58. jentario,

      Huhh… I doubt they’ll cast the same actress for child Lyanna as they will for adult Lyanna, right? The twist is for adult Lyanna, and that casting call may be for adult Lyanna too. But for this flashback, as described, and considering the Young Ned they cast is a young teen, they’ll need a reaaaally young child actress.

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    59. How old is Hodor meant to be? In the books he’s described as a stableboy. How does that fit with the young Starks.
      I wonder if “Hodor” stands for something like “hold her” or something with “door” in it.
      I guess the septon is most likely for McShane now but Marwan and Howland Reed are still possible. For the septon you’d need a meeting scene, walking scenes, and several scenes on the island it might be too much for what McShane is said to be doing.

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    60. Can’t wait to find out Hodors story, we know Hodor isn’t his name, so where did the word come from!? Im hoping it’s something he has seen that’s completely messed him up, I mean Hodor almost sounds like R’hllor! Or maybe I’m just too excited lol

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    61. LordDavos:
      How old is Hodor meant to be? In the books he’s described as a stableboy.How does that fit with the young Starks.
      I wonder if “Hodor” stands for something like “hold her” or something with “door” in it.
      I guess the septon is most likely for McShane now but Marwan and Howland Reed are still possible.For the septon you’d need a meeting scene, walking scenes, and several scenes on the island it might be too much for what McShane is said to be doing.

      I think you actually only need two scenes – meeting/walking and one @island” scene. That’s even if the fair isle is shown (and there’s zero indication it will be).

      The set in Larne appeared to be a small sept and that was on a fairly small plateau in the middle of a field (although admittedly they could easily add CGI).

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    62. LordDavos,

      Hodor is a teenager in the books, I believe, but in the show Nairn is almost 40, and he looks older than that, in my opinion. Him being a contemporary of Ned works.

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    63. LordDavos,

      Would be a trip if Ned brought him back to Winterfell with him after Robert’s Rebellion…. Hodor’s state is shown to come from a severe head trauma he had when he was a baby… The last words her heard could have been “Hold her” as The Mountain killed his mom and sister…. Hodor Azai? The Hodor Who Was Promised? XD

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    64. I don’t expect so, but… If Benjen originally Hodored Hodor, and the guilt is at least part of what drove him to the NW, well… Both Benjen (theoretically) and Hodor (definitively) are in the far North right now. Reunion?

      There will be some reason, anyway, to show the Hodor that Hodored Hodor in a flashback, not just a wink to fans.

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    65. I think the problem with season 4 and specially season 5 was that some of the plots were really well driven, and others were bad or less good (you can discuss if some of the good plots were “good” because the others sucked or not, as you wish), when in the others seasons you had the feeling that, at least, there were interesting moments/characters overall in all plots.

      This, combine with the fact that a lot of charismatic characters were killed/didn’t shine as usual with the fact that this is a season is about to create new plots, created that feeling of dissapointing.

      To me, the highlights of last season were KL and the Wall.

      Jon at the Wall. Hardhome is one of the best sequences of all the show. Rules, excepting maybe personally I missed Sam’s scheeming to make Jon the Commander. Bad points: Aemon’s death (bye bye charismatic), Kit’s inexpressiveness and Olly.

      Stannis. Cool, until all turned to be the extended version of “Bad Luck Stannis” in two episodes. Bye Bye Stannis the Mannis. And Shireen’s death enraged viewers and critics alike.

      Winterhell. I have express my feelings before. Even you love or you hate it, you can’t deny it had created plotholes and problems on the narrative with Brienne’s, Jaime’s and LF’s (that really doesn’t have a purpose now), and has turned Ramsay in the best succesfull villain ever.

      King’s Landing was awesome and Lena was the spotlight this season. The only problem I felt here was the Sparrows turned into neonazis and popped out of nowhere and the creepy sex scene between Marg/Tommen (love Natalie, but it’s a 30s something actress with a child).

      The “meh” plotlines:

      Dany doing the same as usual, added with cheesy love between Dario&Dany and Missandei&Grey Worm, with the plus of the akward scene of Barristan and several Unsullied’s death. It’s not raelly interesting until the flying in Drogon, and a lot of people criticised about the CGI, Dany’s not moving hair, Emilia’s expressiveness and the Endless Story comparisons.

      Tyrion doing the same as usual (drinking, whoring and making jokes about cocks), added with Varys in Marxist Mode endlessly cocksucking Tyrion and Dany (seriously, he didn’t said anything else!). No truly charismatic character here.

      Arya creates polarized opinions: some think it was cool, some not. The point is that she really didn’t anything until the end and for some, that was boring.

      I haven’t meet anyone who really liked Dorne. Or they were like “Oh, the ham!” or “WTF is that?” to “This sucks and ruined everything”.

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    66. TheTouchOfFrost: The origin of Hodor could be fun but if it’s not crucial to the plot then is it really needed?

      JCDavis,

      Well we don’t really know yet, so it’s difficult to say one way or the other. Presumably there’s a reason it is being included in the show, but we won’t know why until it airs.

        Quote  Reply

    67. Adam.T,

      Only if they’re looking to tie The Mountain’s recasting record.

      *If* Beric comes back, it better be Richard Dormer. He’s a fantastic actor (as is Paul Kaye).

      “Go in peace Sandor Clegane. The Lord of Light isn’t done with you yet. ”

        Quote  Reply

    68. Paul

      I think the casting call described Meribald as a wandering minister and we are also expecting him to incorporate the Elder Bro. There’s a fair bit in that. We will meet him out wandering and ministering. He will have to have some interaction who the main character he meets. We need to get to the island and (you’d think) see a mysterious character. If the key character is Jamie there will be a key scene later on as there was for Brienne in the book.

        Quote  Reply

    69. Shups,

      That’s an interesting thought.
      And Howland dreaming/thinking back to the Tower of Joy maybe? I keep trying to figure out how a scene from there is going to play a part next season.

        Quote  Reply

    70. its strange how little news and spoilers we are getting about Tyrion, Varys and Dany. The whole Dothraki/Meereen/Essos arc has been spoiler-free with practically no sighting aside from those few dothraki horse-lord pics we saw few months ago..As much as I hated Dany’s storyline in the last book, I hope they dont cut out Dany’s interactions with the Dothraki and Tyrion/Varys’s adventures in Meereen..not to mention Jorah who im betting is one step away from killing Daario

        Quote  Reply

    71. SlayerNina:
      And Shireen’s death enraged viewers and critics alike.

      Oh, please. Viewers were enraged by Ned’s death. Viewers were enraged by the Red Wedding. Viewers’ rage at a beloved character’s death is no measure of quality.

        Quote  Reply

    72. Dame Pasty,

      And…if you look at my reply to you, I used the “quote” function and all I got was your name as if I had hit only “reply”. Don’t wanna throw salt on that injury, but hopefully it is helpful. I don’t envy you for sure!!

        Quote  Reply

    73. Also, anyone who claims to speak for any section of the fandom as a whole–“we” book readers, e.g.–needs to take a seat. Book readers are not a monolith, any more than the non-book readers are.

        Quote  Reply

    74. Bareeq:
      its strange how little news and spoilers we are getting about Tyrion, Varys and Dany. The whole Dothraki/Meereen/Essos arc has been spoiler-free with practically no sighting aside from those few dothraki horse-lord pics we saw few months ago..As much as I hated Dany’s storyline in the last book, I hope they dont cut out Dany’s interactions with the Dothraki and Tyrion/Varys’s adventures in Meereen..not to mention Jorah who im betting is one step away from killing Daario

      I agree, only crickets in regards to that story line.

        Quote  Reply

    75. SlayerNina,

      I think when it comes to Dorne…there really wasn’t enough of a lead up. We were pretty much just thrust into it, and the whole SS thing felt really awkward for me. It didn’t feel like a serious plot. They were more like “hissy-fitting” women than great warriors when compared to the like in other fantasy/medieval type tv/movies.
      I would have liked to see more with Doran, but I’m a fan of Alexander Siddig so maybe that’s just me. lol

        Quote  Reply

    76. M:
      Also, anyone who claims to speak for any section of the fandom as a whole–“we” book readers, e.g.–needs to take a seat. Book readers are not a monolith, any more than the non-book readers are.

      I keep looking for that “like” button!!

        Quote  Reply

    77. Sean C

      But if the time scale re Hodor isn’t the same as the books then presumably the meaning of the scene doesn’t align. Presuming there’s some secret about Hodor that needs to be told.

        Quote  Reply

    78. Newbietothegame,

      With Varys and Tyrion together again, I’m really looking forward to some epic writing when it comes to their bantering, wit and cunning. I’d like to see Tyrion’s lines be a bit more colourful as they were in the first season and I think besides Bronn, Varys is one who can bring out some of the best conversations with him.

        Quote  Reply

    79. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Yep, exactly…
      Just not sure whether Nan is Hodor’s mother, grandmother , great-grandmother or great-great-grandmother! xD

      I thought we might find out in The She-Wolves of Winterfell, but that’s been delayed of course….

        Quote  Reply

    80. So disappointing. From the sounds of things he’s going to be nothing more than a glorified cameo.

      At least he’s not Randyll Tarly though, I’ve always felt Ian doesn’t possess the right physique for a role like that. Needs to be someone like Graham McTavish or Brendan Gleeson, or at least similar to that sort of age and build IMO.

        Quote  Reply

    81. Shane snow,

      I’m wondering that myself…
      Maybe the scene itself will not be about Hodor, but the other parties involved? Maybe Hodor’s history could be a small part of a larger scene centered on the Stark siblings?

        Quote  Reply

    82. Darquemode,

      I think if they’re showing it, there has to be a reason.

      I’m intrigued by the thought possibly Lyanna caused the injury…not on purpose, of course. I don’t know what bearing that would have on the larger story, nor why we need to know it, although maybe it somehow ties in to The Knight of the Laughing Tree? I’m just thinking (typing) our loud.

        Quote  Reply

    83. LordDavos:
      Paul

      I think the casting call described Meribald as a wandering minister and we are also expecting him to incorporate the Elder Bro. There’s a fair bit in that. We will meet him out wandering and ministering. He will have to have some interaction who the main character he meets. We need to get to the island and (you’d think) see a mysterious character. If the key character is Jamie there will be a key scene later on as there was for Brienne in the book.

      Not necessarily. They can easily truncate this to Brienne or even Jaime passing a small sept, being given food and shelter for the night where the Septon explains what’s gone down in the riverlands and have a potential shot of Sandor in the background. No need for an island, dog etc. I’m not saying that’s how it’ll go down but that was a tiny sept they’d constructed- certainly no fair isle type monastery.

        Quote  Reply

    84. mariamb,

      If McShane is Maribald, and they officially confirmed it, then the internet would be awash with clickbait links with titles like (major book spoilers – unsullied stay away!)

      ‘Bet You Weren’t Expecting This Character to Return on Game of Thrones’ (under a picture of Rory McCann as The Hound) in the ‘You May Like’ sidebars nearly all websites seem to have now

      . Whereas if we’re not quite sure and it’s still only a rumor or speculation, even decently informed speculation, that news isn’t going to spread beyond the intense fan sites like this one, and the vast majority of show watchers will be able to enjoy the surprise.

      Of course, the other possibility is McShane is an important character from The Winds of Winter who we haven’t yet met, and by not announcing him D&D are doing their best to not spoil future books prematurely.

      The other, OTHER possibility is none of the above. Remember what a big mystery they made out of the casting of Mark Gatiss? It turned out he was Tycho Nestoris. There was no real reason to keep that a secret, but for whatever reason, they did.

        Quote  Reply

    85. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Maybe the important aspect of the Hodor scene will not be Hodor but a theme that connects to the modern timeline…. An allegory of sorts?

      Other than fanservice (which I am in no way against in this case), I can’t think of a reason Hodor’s origin story needs to be told. Maybe the future books will bring out the reason for its inclusion? Honestly though, like many others I assume, I have always wondered about his origin so I am intrigued regardless.

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    86. outdoorcats: There was no real reason to keep that a secret, but for whatever reason, they did.

      It feels to me like every season people assume that HBO is keeping some actor’s role hidden in a grand conspiracy. Of course the large majority of the time it turns out to be for no reason at all like with Tycho…

      I honestly don’t think HBO has a clandestine agenda for keeping most casting info secret… They just do it because they have no requirement or desire to inform the press or the masses about every actor being cast in every role. Especially during production season….

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    87. Apollo

      I think aspect of the island is it is a hidden away sanctuary which makes the change more believable. It could be hacked back like you say but it wouldn’t be great

        Quote  Reply

    88. Luka Nieto,

      Well the stunner role (Lyanna) will be for several scenes including the big wtf twist scene, so maybe we get the Laughing Tree and Rhaegar Blue Roses scenes. They might just have him ‘kidnap;)’ her at the Tourney to save on sets.

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    89. There could be a simple Hodor explanation. Bran could be exploring Hodor and Meera’s memories so we see the young Starks and Meera’s dad

        Quote  Reply

    90. If both book and TV were to show Hodor getting his disability the same way – say head injuries from a fall – then the time change for Hodor from book to show wouldn’t really matter.

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    91. Darquemode:
      TheTouchOfFrost,

      Yep, exactly…
      Just not sure whether Nan is Hodor’s mother, grandmother , great-grandmother or great-great-grandmother! xD

      I thought we might find out in The She-Wolves of Winterfell, but that’s been delayed of course….

      Old Nan is Walder/Hodor’s Great Grandmother.

      Pretty sure that’s stated in the books (Wiki of Ice and Fire certainly says that’s the relationship).

        Quote  Reply

    92. Darquemode,

      I feel like Hodor’s “origin story” isn’t going to be that big of a thing but more of a tidbit within one of the flashbacks like “Oh, there’s Hodor doing Hodor things” kind of vibe with maybe a hint of why he is the way he is, but he will not be the main focus necessarily. Run-on sentences yeah!

        Quote  Reply

    93. Dame Pasty:

      No, I didn’t.F@!%ing spoiler code.I need a drink./sigh

      Cheers! I love iterative coding and testing! However, for me, spoiler coding became OBE when Shireen burned, Stannis died, and Varys showed up in Meereen. 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    94. Mihnea:
      Robb Snow,
      Jaime meeting him on the road seems plausible, I don’t expect Brienne in the riverlands, they got her North for a reason, she isn’t comming back yet.

      To kill King Stannis. It may not be the way how that happens in the books, but for terminating that storyline short, it provided the most adequate closure most viewers will be able to console themselves with. So in short, Sansa probably needs to be in the North in TWOW (I believe this is what LF intends with her and D&D are streamlining the hell out of it) and D&D made the choice to knock Stannis off their storyline-roster to make time in S6, so decided Brienne would follow Sansa into the North (despite her AFFC-arc) and cull Stannis poetically.

      So Brienne being North is probably for those two reasons, not because her TWOW-storyline would indicate it. In mathematical terms: Planning for TWOW-Sansa + Culling4S6Screentime > Brienne’s bookmaterial = fact as S5 Brienne =/= AFFC Brienne.

      It depends on whether Brienne’s TWOW-material gets interesting enough for D&D to withdraw her back from the North. She really has nothing keeping her there except Sansa who’s sort of gone missing again. She’s one of those characters that might suffer a Barristan in S6 in my eyes, even if she’s a fanfavorite.

      As for the actual article: Imagine the following:
      – Ian McShane
      – Rory McCann
      – Gwendoline Christie
      – Nikolaj Coster-Waldau

      All drinking in a bar, having a laugh.. until..

      Michelle Fairley walks in with David Bradley.

      During spoiler coding shenanigans, I almost typed “[soiler]” which is what would happen to me if the above happened. xD

        Quote  Reply

    95. My guess for Brienne in S6 is that somehow, Podrick’s luck finally runs out and he is killed somehow. This would leave her truly alone and I could see this propelling her on a journey South – maybe even trying to get back to Tarth – where she is waylaid somewhere in the Riverlands.

      Some other spitballing -the more I think about it, I feel like Richard E Grant fits more with the Septon Meribald description from the books than McShane so I am going to go with Grant for the Septon and McShane for an unknown character.

      Also during my rewatch I decided that Davos was going to end up with the Dreadfort eventually, because it would be quite funny for their sigil to go from a flayed man to an onion. Maybe split the difference and have it be a peeled onion 😛 So, according to my head, show Davos is still going in search of Rickon and will eventually be awarded a nice place in the North by the Starks and will abandon the Stormlands/send for Marya and their little ones.

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    96. WOO-HOO! One step closer to the EB/Meribald theory on McShane! I REALLY hope that D&D can keep the Gravedigger-type reveal of the return of that character. McShane could still be someone else, like Marwyn or present-day Howland Reed, though.

      So…if he isn’t Marwyn, does everyone think that we will even get any info on the Maester’s Conspiracy/the obsidian candles/the magic connection this season AT ALL? DISCUSS!

      I, too, have always been curious about Hodor’s origin, as well as Benjen’s story. As usual, shaping up to be a great season!

        Quote  Reply

    97. Ahhh…missed that certainty in the article. Thanks, Sean. He IS EB/Meribald then!! Hurrah!!

      Please, D&D&BCog, Gravedigger! You can do it! 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    98. Robb Snow:

      Honestly, I’m a little worried about how they plan to cram all of this stuff into ten episodes. I can definitely see why they chose to extend the show to eight seasons. I’m assuming the Ironborn will begin their raids at some point… but apparently the Kingsmoot won’t even happen until halfway through the season since Jack Bender seems to be directing those scenes. That leaves five, possibly just four episodes (he’s doing Ep 5-6) to get the ball rolling on that.

      Since Theon is apparently AT the Kingsmoot, it would take about that long for him to get there. I mean, we last saw him jumping off the battlements of Winterfell with Sansa. I ‘m sure a lot has to happen (narrative wise and travel-time wise) from the conclusion of that (ep. 1) to the Kingsmoot (ep. 5).

      Side note, why the hell does Theon leave Sansa? Does she send him away? Does he simply run away and leave her? Have I missed the theories on why we have a separated Theon and Sansa in season 6?

      Also, I agree with Hoyti…Hodor flashbacks are pointless and seem like a waste of time to me.

        Quote  Reply

    99. Philemon the Jamaicon:
      Robb Snow,

      Season 5 was nothing but placing characters where they needed to be for Season 6, and was far and away the worst season. Does that mean book readers hate the show? No, it just means we are incredibly disappointed since the first 4 seasons were so well done. Hardhome was by far the best episode of season 5, the fight scene in the pit was corny as hell, the Dorne story line was completely murdered, no Ghost, Stannis decapitated while just lying in the snow, and Jon’s execution had none of the drama from the books and little of the context. That said, its still a great show all in all, Season 5 just sucked (for the most part).

      Thank you! My thoughts exactly. I love the books and the show and I can objectively say that S5 was the worst season of GoT. I’m really excited about season 6 returning to the Riverlands, Randyll the Mandyll and Ian McShane and the Iron Islands!!! Plus flashbacks and TOJ. Last season was my least favorite but I’m pumped for S6.

        Quote  Reply

    100. tyjon:
      Luka Nieto,

      Well the stunner role (Lyanna) will be for several scenes including the big wtf twist scene, so maybe we get the Laughing Tree and Rhaegar Blue Roses scenes. They might just have him ‘kidnap;)’ her at the Tourney to save on sets.

      But, Young Ned is like 12 and the Young Stunner role is supposed to be 20. That wouldn’t match at all, even with a young looking 20-year old. Unless there’s a third flashback, the stunner could be Lyanna at TOJ though.

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    101. No one seems to realize Ian McShane might simply play a yet to be introduced character. I know it’s fun to guess, but I think that in his case it is an entirely new character.

        Quote  Reply

    102. I think harrenhal tourney would make a cool opening scene for season 6.. even if they don’t show everything I could see them showing rhaegar winning and giving Lyanna the flower

        Quote  Reply

    103. mau:
      Philemon the Jamaicon,

      I and many others completely disagree. S5 was better than S2 and S3 IMO.

      And i really can’t take seriously a person who judge a TV season based on a presence of a CGI wolf.

      Are you serious? Better than season 2 and season 3? How, exactly? Was it putting Sansa in Winterfell just to get raped by Ramsay? Was it the Sand Snakes and their bad pussy? Was it Jaime and Bronn’s nonsensical trip to Dorne? Was it the ridiculously, comically fast downfall of Stannis? Gilly’s near-rape? Or was it Dany’s poorly CGI-ed dragon flight? Tell me please, why you think last season was better than S2 or S3? Actual reasons, please. There were some good scenes, especially between the HS and Olenna, but most of last season really sucked, compared to past seasons.

      And it’s not about the presence of a random CGI wolf, it’s that last season increasingly downplayed the importance of the connection between the Stark kids and their wolves, especially between Jon and Ghost and the strong possibility that Jon warged into Ghost when he was stabbed. Have you even read the books?

      Last season there was no emphasis on the Direwolves but they’re extremely important.

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    104. the Great Other is the god of the cold and dark, and in Norse Mythology, there is a guy named Hod/Hodur/Hoder that is the god of all things cold and dark.

        Quote  Reply

    105. TheMannis: really excited

      Many of my friends, both book-readers and shownlies were disappointed. It definitely was not as good as previous seasons. I wish it had been better. I love the books and the show and I want the show to keep the quality high.

        Quote  Reply

    106. Laura:
      I rewatched S3-S5 this long weekend and honestly, I was riveted by much of S3 and S4 ( but a lot of the eps in S5 were a slog. I am not a show hater at all – I love the show. For me personally, all the religious stuff was very boring, so that made the KL storyline in general a snooze for me. Brienne was such a beyotch to Pod for much of the season, Tyrion was a depressed drunk, Sansa was a captive (again), Arya’s story was more setup than anything else, Jamie didn’t know what the hell he was doing etc etc. The Wall and Stannis storylines were much improved from earlier seasons but that can’t make up for the defects in the other stories. We lost a LOT of good characters in S4 – Joffrey, Tywin, The Hound, Ygritte, Bran and crew (temporarily) and there just wasn’t enough good stuff to fill those holes, imo. We all have our preferences. I would rate the seasons as follows: 1>3>4>2>5 with 3 and 4 and 2 and 5 pretty interchangeable in terms of rankings. I can’t wait for S6 and I hope it blows S1 out of the water!

      My thoughts exactly. Thank you. Finally people with some taste.

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    107. I understand the concern for multiple flashbacks this season when the show has limited them thus far but I assume it will be done with repetitive flashback sequences to show bran accessing the weir wood tree memories. he could be shown skipping from one place or point in time to another, stringing together groups of 3 flashbacks that tell a complete story. This could give a lot of backstory, character build, and explain what the hell bran did last season off screen.

      and if sweringen does indeed play meribald and delivers his great speech I will be truly satisfied. it was captivating in my head when I read the book but he will make it even more monumental!

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    108. K Noelle,

      Wait a minute. Maybe I’m getting you confused with someone else, and if that’s the case, I apologize, but didn’t you make a post within the last couple/few days complaining how if you criticized the show, people got rude, or something? What do you call asking someone who simply has a different opinion than you if they’ve even read the books, or saying, finally, someone with some taste, as though if someone does not agree with you that most of last season really sucked, they have no taste?

      Most of the things you didn’t like I had no problem with. I did not think most of last season really sucked in comparison with the previous seasons. Of the things you mentioned in season 5 over which you seem so upset, yes, I wish Dorne had had more development, and I wish we had gotten more of the direwolves, although I could say that about the direwolves for more than just season 5.

      Yes, I’m serious, and, yes, I’ve read the books.

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    109. K Noelle: My thoughts exactly. Thank you. Finally people with some taste.

      It is nice to see fans that have the same opinion as me and to express my opinion without being vilified. I would never shit on the show- I love the show and I love that D&D get it right, and sometimes better, most of the time. But I’m not a book purist or a snob or a jerkoff* just because I didn’t love last season. Last season didn’t coalesce the way previous seasons have and it was noticeably clunky to me. There just weren’t many people to root for. Except Tormund. Tormund was almost the only character who became better in S6.

      I still love the show, love the books (please let there be a WoW announcement soon – ha!) love all the actors and love D&D. I want this show to be great because I love it so much. And I love talking about it with strangers on the internets!

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    110. Hmm, so Easter Sunday is March 27 next year. That’s likely too soon for the premiere by a week or two, right? Because Easter would be an…interesting date to show Mel reviving Jon, if that’s indeed what happens.

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    111. Making the 8,

      It never really occurred to me the flashbacks would be via anything other than Bran accessing the weirnet. I think it will be great, as it will simultaneously develop Bran’s story, and provide us with lots of information (and who am I kidding, I just want to see some of those moments on-screen!!! I’m still bouncing off the walls we’re going to see the ToJ.), like you were saying.

      I do understand the concerns of how much story is sounds like is being told, this season. Someone mentioned they hoped there was an announcement that all episode would be at least 60 minutes. That would certainly help fit everything it seems like we’re getting in.

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    112. Shane snow:
      the Great Other is the god of the cold and dark, and in Norse Mythology, there is a guy named Hod/Hodur/Hoder that is the god of all things cold and dark.

      As a frivolous mental exercise, I’ve often wondered if Hodor was traumatized by something he saw or experienced early in life. Not abuse but something evil or magical he wasn’t supposed to see. Perhaps the word “Hodor” is a self-perpetuating spell. Maybe something “cold and dark” warged into him at some point? Maybe he holds a hidden key in his head or maybe the word “Hodor” is a key or code itself (maybe it means “friend”)…in plain sight and within earshot all along. Maybe he has giant’s blood, maybe he was programmed by BR to have one function in life – to physically get Bran to the Frostfangs – or maybe he is the human incarnation of Joramun’s Horn? Hodor lore may prove fun indeed.

      [sigh]…..or maybe “hold the door” was the last phrase he heard before he got hit in the head.

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    113. Laura,

      I would hope no one would vilify you for that post. You were simply stating your opinion, and while I may not agree with all of it, you did so without resorting to hyperbole, and without being dismissive of those who may not agree with you. I also really liked the point you made about how many great characters we lost in season 4.

      I think one of the elements which made season 5 so enjoyable for me (not that it I thought it flawless, mind you, but some of the parts I didn’t enjoy as much, or found disappointing were mitigated by some moments I thought were amazing) is for decent chunks of it, I had little to no idea of what was going to happen. I liked that. It’s one of the reasons I’m so excited for season 6. Hell, I don’t even have an “well, I know Daznak’s is happening,” or, “I’d bet my house they’re ending the season with FTW.”

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    114. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Ooh, I know. It is kind of fun being in the dark, isn’t it? We were watching The Rains of Castamere the other day and marveling that we might get a surprise this season that floors us book readers like the unsullied were floored by that episode. I have to imagine that D&D would take great delight in throwing us all for a loop like that, a la Hardhome.

      I just couldn’t be more excited for next season. 😀 This site has been so awesome lately that my anticipation factor is at the highest level. Once shooting ends, the lull before we get any teasers/trailers is going to be painful!

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    115. Zalos:
      No one seems to realize Ian McShane might simply play a yet to be introduced character. I know it’s fun to guess, but I think that in his case it is an entirely new character.

      Ive thought this for awhile. And, now, since the bandits haven’t been explicitly listed as the BwithoutB, that seems even more likely. That doesn’t mean he won’t deliver that speech, but it might be as an amalgamated character or one only in WINTER.

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    116. Bareeq:
      its strange how little news and spoilers we are getting about Tyrion, Varys and Dany. The whole Dothraki/Meereen/Essos arc has been spoiler-free with practically no sighting aside from those few dothraki horse-lord pics we saw few months ago..As much as I hated Dany’s storyline in the last book, I hope they dont cut out Dany’s interactions with the Dothraki and Tyrion/Varys’s adventures in Meereen..not to mention Jorah who im betting is one step away from killing Daario

      Tyrion and Varys probably because they’re either not filming yet or its been on sound stages in Belfast. I think there was a Conleth sighting in Belfast two weeks ago, and he had his hair, so he didn’t look like he was shooting anytime soon. Also, Michiel Huisman and his wife were in New Orleans on vacation two weeks ago, so he wasn’t shooting in that period, either.

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    117. Sean C.: with Arya returning (probably toward the end of the season), perhaps she learns he’s not as dead as she thought he was.

      When they threw in that beat in S5 where Arya “lies” about hating the Hound, it seemed to be a pretty heavy foreshadow that she wasn’t done with the Clegane boys.

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    118. Nymeria Warrior Queen:
      Laura,

      I would hope no one would vilify you for that post.You were simply stating your opinion, and while I may not agree with all of it, you did so without resorting to hyperbole, and without being dismissive of those who may not agree with you.I also really liked the point you made about how many great characters we lost in season 4.

      I think one of the elements which made season 5 so enjoyable for me (not that it I thought it flawless, mind you, but some of the parts I didn’t enjoy as much, or found disappointing were mitigated by some moments I thought were amazing) is for decent chunks of it, I had little to no idea of what was going to happen.I liked that.It’s one of the reasons I’m so excited for season 6.Hell, I don’t even have an “well, I know Daznak’s is happening,” or, “I’d bet my house they’re ending the season with FTW.”

      If they foreshadow the end of S6 as heavily as they foreshadowed Olly, you might very well be in a position to bet your house come next June. I’d be surprised if the combined wisdom of the crowd here and elsewhere didn’t figure most of it out in advance.

      Here’s to hoping there is a real surprise coming up!

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    119. K Noelle: Are you serious? Better than season 2 and season 3? How, exactly? Was it putting Sansa in Winterfell just to get raped by Ramsay? Was it the Sand Snakes and their bad pussy? Was it Jaime and Bronn’s nonsensical trip to Dorne? Was it the ridiculously, comically fast downfall of Stannis? Gilly’s near-rape? Or was it Dany’s poorly CGI-ed dragon flight? Tell me please, why you think last season was better than S2 or S3? Actual reasons, please. There were some good scenes, especially between the HS and Olenna, but most of last season really sucked, compared to past seasons.

      And it’s not about the presence of a random CGI wolf, it’s that last season increasingly downplayed the importance of the connection between the Stark kids and their wolves, especially between Jon and Ghost and the strong possibility that Jon warged into Ghost when he was stabbed. Have you even read the books?

      Last season there was no emphasis on the Direwolves but they’re extremely important.

      Aaaand that’s the reason because season 5 was the most watched yet. And has a score of 91/100 on Metacritic and 97% on Rotten Tomatoes. And has 24 Emmy nominations. Because it really sucked and everybody hates it. Yep.

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    120. Davos’ Luck: Aaaand that’s the reason because season 5 was the most watched yet. And has a score of 91/100 on Metacritic and 97% on Rotten Tomatoes. And has 24 Emmy nominations. Because it really sucked and everybody hates it. Yep.

      Internet comment sections are not for reasonable points, bro. Only hyperbole.

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    121. Ravyn,

      I loved that, too! One of those throw away lines that will come back if we see the return of Sandor. For someone so intent on fulfilling her “list”, so hellbent on vengeance, I think her walking away from him was two-fold. He didn’t deserve her mercy but his death no longer mattered to her. He was no longer the enemy (I think she even reluctantly began to give a shit).
      There are bigger fish to fry (or Frey) and Arya knows it.
      A possible re-teaming of Arya/Sandor may be the thing fanfic is made of but damn if they don’t make good television. Seeing his “softer” leanings belong to the Stark girls, it would be pretty cool, when Arya is back in Westeros, to see them (reluctantly) pair up again.

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    122. K Noelle,

      Get over yourself. No one owes you an explanations or justifications for their opinions, especially when you clearly place little to no value on them anyway.

      And you know what? Just because something doesn’t stick slavishly to the books or just doesn’t fit your own idea or vision of how things unfold, doesn’t make it bad, poor, rushed, or whatever. I’m tired of hearing about Stannis’s downfall especially. I’ve argued to hell and back with people over how that happened and it’s at a point now where I actually despise the character and am glad he’s dead. I hope his death in the books is even “worse.”

      The whole bit about the bad pussy line is getting pretty tired as well. Yes, it’s a terrible line. But so is Myrish swamp, pale sticky princes, fat pink mast, and numerous other cringe-inducing lines in George’s holy books.

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    123. Davos’ Luck,

      So gross and unnecessary. I’m not trying to justify bad writing in the show, but god… even the worst dialogue in the show is still better than some of the stomach-turning sex scenes and Dany’s disgustingly descriptive “brown water” scenes in the books.

      I will admit I got a good laugh reading some of them though. I literally laughed out loud when I read Asha’s sex scene in ADwD. “Her cunt became the world”? Really George?

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    124. Robb Snow:
      Davos’ Luck,

      So gross and unnecessary. I’m not trying to justify bad writing in the show, but god… even the worst dialogue in the show is still better than some of the stomach-turning sex scenes and Dany’s disgustingly descriptive “brown water” scenes in the books.

      I will admit I got a good laugh reading some of them though. I literally laughed out loud when I read Asha’s sex scene in ADwD. “Her cunt became the world”? Really George?

      The Asha sex scenes bring out the worst in him. There’s this one line he uses, something akin to “it was hard to tell where her pussy ended and his cock began…” 50 Shades of Greyjoy!

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    125. Yeeeeeeeeees! It’s worth watching on this Wall (WoTW). Every morning and every free moment I’ve got I check on this site for a glimpse of any news. You’ve been doing so great, WoTW! I’ll be forever a Watcher on your Wall 😀

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    126. Robb Snow,

      Because bad book stuff doesn’t exist and bad show stuff needs to be put up in neon. This is similar to what someone wrote on the GoT Facebook page the other day: “Go back to following the books and stop making it Rape Rape Rape!” Because, as we know, there were no rape scenes in the books.

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    127. Laura,

      I actually went back and read that scene just now out of amusement. “Asha draped the furs across her bare shoulders and mounted him, drawing him so deep inside her that she could not tell who had the cock and who the cunt.” Just brilliant.

      Ravyn,

      They actually have more rape scenes (and threats and references of rape) than the show from what I remember. Sansa is damn near raped by Marillion, and I actually have a hunch that she’ll still be raped in the books as well, albeit by a different character (good ol’ Harry the Heir perhaps). Perhaps D&D didn’t just make it up for “shock value” and there’s actually a precedent for it in Winds somewhere.

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    128. K Noelle:
      And it’s not about the presence of a random CGI wolf, it’s that last season increasingly downplayed the importance of the connection between the Stark kids and their wolves, especially between Jon and Ghost and the strong possibility that Jon warged into Ghost when he was stabbed. Have you even read the books?

      Last season there was no emphasis on the Direwolves but they’re extremely important.

      Your’re kinda right about this and Sand Snakes(I still have faith with them,more screentime for the starters would be nice,but we’ll see.

      Bond between Jon and Ghost is strong(like Daeny and Drogon) and show kinda downplayed it(not just this season).Who knows what will happen next season,but I read somewhere that it’s more expensive(more than dragons).I just hope that Ghost will survive any potential resurrection and not to be replaced eventually by some dragon(like Rhaegal for example). We’ve already lost Lady and Greywind.Losing Ghost would’ve been really tough.

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    129. Robb Snow,

      There was actually an academic study back around the end of S5 where someone compared the rape scenes/references between the two and the show had like 50 and the books were into the hundreds (w/the caveats that the books are longer, still…). io9 had a story on it.

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    130. Robb Snow:
      K Noelle,

      The whole bit about the bad pussy line is getting pretty tired as well. Yes, it’s a terrible line. But so is Myrish swamp, pale sticky princes, fat pink mast, and numerous other cringe-inducing lines in George’s holy books.

      The fact that the books have bad lines doesn’t mean that justifies the bad lines on the show. George’s books aren’t holy: I don’t think there’s anyone on this site who thinks they are. It’s the big difference between places like this and places like Westeros.

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    131. Ravyn,

      Makes sense. I will say though that I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with portraying rape in fiction, and I think George is just exploring the horrors of war and the dark side of humanity in general in these books. So I won’t criticize him too much for it (although one could reasonably argue that he still portrays it in excess).

      Sam the Slayer,

      I’ve had some pretty unpleasant exchanges with book purists recently who do think like that, so I might be projecting a bit on that front.

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    132. Robb Snow,

      Oh I couldn’t agree with you more. I think it’s just a prime example of the Intener Outrage Complex. As I said to someone during the whole Sansagate period, When ISIS and Boko Haram are mass raping women as we speak, I find it hard to get heated about the fictional rape of a fictional character in a fictional world.

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    133. LordDavos,

      He underplayed a lot of things. Male rape, for instance. That’s why he can’t really lay the claim to being ‘historically accurate’.

      Laura,

      I really, really, honestly wish there were a way to automatically filter out and hide/ignore posts containing phrases such as ‘I think that S5 […]’ and/or ‘I think that TWOW […]’. I honestly don’t care about people’s opinions about S5, and we don’t know much about TWOW – and because of the way this site is constructed, it’s impossible to avoid these two types of posts at present. A filter would be great.

      Otherwise… I like that the established actors are, essentially, used as glorified cameos. Let new faces show off! And I hope that the Hound does not return to the show. On the same basis: he was cool, but I yearn for something new.

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    134. K Noelle: Are you serious? Better than season 2 and season 3? How, exactly?

      S5 had far more climaxes for every character, not only for the Starks, like S3, or the Lannisters and Stannis, like S2.

      We had WoS, Hardhome, FTW, Daznak, Shireen’s death,…

      Was it putting Sansa in Winterfell just to get raped by Ramsay?

      Yes. I loved Sansa in WF.

      Was it Jaime and Bronn’s nonsensical trip to Dorne?

      It was really fun for most of the part and smart way to introduce Dorne.

      Was it the ridiculously, comically fast downfall of Stannis?

      Stannis downfall was great and powerful, and he was finally punished for his first sin.

      was it Dany’s poorly CGI-ed dragon flight?

      Daznak pit was one of the best action scenes this show ever had and one of the best action scenes in the history of TV.

      it’s that last season increasingly downplayed the importance of the connection between the Stark kids and their wolves,

      So what?

      Last season there was no emphasis on the Direwolves but they’re extremely important.

      Cleary, they aren’t.

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    135. I knew I was right, months ago, when I said that young actor they cast was going to be preHodor!Walder and that Bran will discover the hodorigin through weirwood sight…
      @pigeon was agreeing with me, too… We were right, friend! ?
      And…a Stark family flashback?? Gotta start hording handkerchiefs.

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    136. I’m surprised to hear McShane is not Tarly, I thought that made perfect sense and was totally convinced that would work well. Now I’m confused… and grasping at straw..
      Septon Meribald?
      New leader of BwB/Beric recast?
      Blackfish recast? (I like Clive Russell in the role so I would be sad to see that but similar age/tough look)
      Northern Lord, Greatjon recast, other Umber, etc? (Repeat above but with Clive Mantle instead)
      The myseterious Howland Reed finally appears?
      Other Ironborn of importance? Seems unlikely since they’re already shooting, unless it was a Rodrik Harlaw type and we just get interior with him in his library
      Totally new character from TWoW or the minds of D&D?

      Excited about potential Northern scenes with lots of horses though!

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    137. M: Oh, please. Viewers were enraged by Ned’s death. Viewers were enraged by the Red Wedding. Viewers’ rage at a beloved character’s death is no measure of quality.

      Ned’s death and the RW had a purpose, narratively speaking. Ned started the war of the Five Kings (I mean, everything) and the RW was supposed to be its end.

      Shireen was sacrificed non canonycally to win a battle (that Stannis lost anyway) to applease Melisandre’s god (and she runs away) and to left Stannis heirless (which it was his campaing anyway, to become king and let the throne to his daughter, since he won’t have children anymore unless he married other woman). Side effect: noone talked about Dany’s flying, but Shireen’s death.

      In a show frequently criticised by its gratuitous violence on women, that was the nail in the coffin. This death was simply unnecesary, stupid and manipulative: they only added scenes to Shireen to make her death more impresive and only left the viewer with the feeling “Booo Stannis sucks, I hope the Boltons -reminder, THE BOLTONS- win!”

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    138. K Noelle,

      Let me quote Damon Lindelof. It’s a rather long argument, but it is a more realistic, bird-eye view than the “direwolves are important” view you’re displaying here.

      “I love Game of Thrones. I read the first three books, and I was just finishing Book 3 when the show premiered. And right around the time that Ned died in season one I felt that rush of book reader’s superiority— “I knew that it was going to happen and nobody else did.” But it was also intermingled with jealousy for the people who did experience it first onscreen. That’s where I stopped reading the books. Book 4 was already out, and 5 was on the verge of coming out, and I was like, “I would love to get to a place in this show where I am genuinely surprised.”

      I know there’s discourse now on the Web as to the deviances from the books, but all the Theon stuff was beyond Book 3 for me. So [in season 5 I was] experiencing the show completely and totally cold—and I was surprised. I was very surprised by a number of things that happened this season. As someone who makes television, I watch that show and I do not know how they do it. I just don’t understand, on a sheer logistical level, of how they’re able to produce that qualitative of a product in the amount of time they have with so many different locations and so many different parts.

      Are there storylines that I am more invested in than others? Of course. That’s always going to be the case when six or seven different things are happening at any one time. But as a storyteller, if you can make one, let alone two, excellent hours of television a season if you’re doing eight or 10 episodes—an excellent episode by all accounts—I think what people don’t realize is that in order to produce those excellent episodes, there have to be episodes that set that up. There also have to be episodes that begin to—although this is never a storyteller’s intent—make [the viewer] go, “I don’t know, I don’t know about this…” That makes those excellent episodes all the more special. And when I was watching [episode 8] “Hardhome” this season, I was just like, “That’s one of the most excellent hours of television I’ve ever seen.” It’s excellent for different reasons than “The Suitcase” episode of Mad Men is excellent, but it’s just amazing. I just sat there with my mouth hanging open. I’m literally watching five minutes of silence—that whole moment where Jon Snow is going off into the water and looking at The Night’s King and he’s doing his “Come at me, bro” moment. And I was just like: “There’s nothing better on television, right now, than this.” You only need to demonstrate excellence once a season for me to view the entire season as excellent, or the entire show as excellent. And Game of Thrones is able to do it at any one time.

      I don’t watch television to find things to gripe about, and I think we live in a clickbait-y media culture that exists to pick things apart. I love-watch Game of Thrones, so I’m immensely forgiving of things that perhaps are not the strongest attributes of the show. And despite the fact that George R. R. Martin has flamed the Lost finale, there is a schadenfreude aspect of me saying, “Well, I kind of hope Game of Thrones sucks at the end, too, so they’ll know it feels to have somebody say that to you.” But I don’t think the Lost finale sucks. And I want Game of Thrones to end awesome, because I’m a huge fan, and I have every reason to believe that it is going to end awesomely.

      But when you are in the zeitgeist, and when you are loved, there’s this part of it—people threaten to stop watching, people say “it’s not as good as it used to be,” people say, “If you kill this character, I will stop watching the show.” One of the things that people fell in love with about Thrones was its willingness to kill anyone—but you can’t kill Jon Snow, you know? You can kill anyone—but you can’t kill Tyrion. And you can’t kill Dany. As long as you don’t kill those three. And it’s like: “But I thought you loved the show because we killed Ned Stark! He was the un-killable character!” So we have to be willing to do that.

      And I see people pushing against Thrones where it’s like, literally from week to week, someone will say, “This is the most excellent show, this season is firing on all cylinders, it’s never been better.” And then because of one story move—Stannis burns his daughter—suddenly [the reaction is] like, “I cannot watch this show anymore. I’m quitting you, Game of Thrones.” And I’m thinking: “No, you’re not. Don’t be an ass.” That’s like my 8-year-old saying, “We’re not best friends anymore.” When I see a blogger—thank God I’m not on Twitter anymore, because I get into all sorts of trouble—or a critic, or a recapper say, “I’m done with your show,” if I were running that show I would call them up and say, “You are not allowed to watch my show anymore. I’m going to f–king alert everybody in your life to watch you. I’m going to hire a private eye to tap your media consumption, and you better not ever watch it again. Are you sure you want to do this?“

      It’s like you get in a fight with someone you love, you storm out of the room, and you say this is over. And then an hour later, you’re apologizing for being an asshole … Thus concludes my soapbox. ”

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    139. SciFiFantasyGirl:
      SlayerNina,

      I think when it comes to Dorne…there really wasn’t enough of a lead up.We were pretty much just thrust into it, and the whole SS thing felt really awkward for me.It didn’t feel like a serious plot.They were more like “hissy-fitting” women than great warriors when compared to the like in other fantasy/medieval type tv/movies.
      I would have liked to see more with Doran, but I’m a fan of Alexander Siddig so maybe that’s just me. lol

      I have the feeling the SS will be relevant in WoW, and their appearance was a set up (Obara with an army, Nym at the Council and Tyene with the High Septon… this could be interesting) so that’s why we didn’t see them a lot.

      Yes! More Doran, please! When I read Alexander was Doran I almost made a party. And he just sits on his chair (an Unsullied ask me why he was always sitting, he didn’t remind dornish envoy said he had gout XD) and did nothing.

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    140. I can’t wait to find more about the character played by Ian McShane. Sue, thanks a lot for keeping us informed! It’s really hard between seasons…
      But I’m really happy for the Stark family flashback!

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    141. Kay,

      Septon Meribald is a cool character, Ian McShane would be very good to play this part!
      Google him, you’ll find enough to stir your interest!

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    142. For what it’s worth, the series I have enjoyed least was Series 2.

      Because they tried to include every plotline and every character in each episode. This resulted in lots of jumping about and very short scenes. I found it an awkward and unsatisfying watch. They haven’t made that mistake again.

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    143. SlayerNina,

      Oh, please.

      I do not dismiss readers of the books. I am one myself.

      The reason I dismiss you is because you hate something strictly because it hasn’t happened (yet) in the books.

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    144. mau: Stannis downfall was great and powerful, and he was finally punished for his first sin.

      Which was what exactly?

      How is the rightful king assassinating a traitor and thus preventing a bloody battle where thousands would die a “sin”? Heck, it is one of the most ethical decisions anyone on the show has made. I’ve read a ton of reviews and more posts than I can count since E10, and I can’t recall anyone saying “Boy, am I glad someone finally got vengeance for Renly!”. Instead, it was all about Shireen, as D&D intended.

      Frankly, Renly deserved to die. Outside of Littlefinger and Cersei, there is no one more responsible for Westeros’s current misery than him. He betrayed his brother and turned down an extremely fair deal in doing so, and thus destroyed his own house and turned the keys over to Joffrey. How many tens or hundreds of thousands died for his vanity?

      Were we supposed to feel good when Brienne broke her vows, engaged in massive hypocrisy, and joined Jaime in earning the title “Kingslayer”? Perhaps, but not because of Renly.

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    145. Mihnea:
      SlayerNina,

      You are one of the most ignorant people I have ever seen.

      “2. What is the moderation policy when commenting on Watchers On the Wall ?

      WatchersOnTheWall.com has an open commenting policy for the most part, but personal attacks on other commenters are not permitted.

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    146. Grandmaester Flash,

      S2 is the only season I can’t like. I liked Blackwater, but even that hasn’t aged to well, the fights are preaty bad, and Dinklidge fighting was poor aswell. Just compare it with Hardhome, it’s painfully obvious how much larger theit budget got since then.

      My ranking of the season would somethink like this;

      S4, I simply loved it.

      S1, but mostly because of Ned/Robert.

      S5 I found it to be a ver solid season, especially when I expected far worse, considering the books they had to adapt.

      S3, the entire season suffered for the decision, to split ASOS, while it benefited S4, it’s preaty clear, they just prolonged this season to get the RW in EP9.

      S2, I simply can’t enjoy this one, the entire season is a prelude to Blackwater, nothing really happens with the other storylines, Jon’s and Dany’s most of all. The only scenes I can easly say I loved, are Arya and Tywin’s, wich even tough never happens in the books, are stil, IMO, one of the best scenes in the entire show.

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    147. Dutch Maester:
      SlayerNina,

      Oh, please.

      I do not dismiss readers of the books. I am one myself.

      The reason I dismiss you is because you hate something strictly because it hasn’t happened (yet) in the books.

      I disagree. It’s because it cannot happen in any morally or ethically comparable way in the books, and to me, matching the moral and ethical choices of the main characters is a key element of a faithful adaptation.

      First, it is difficult to even see how Stannis could sacrifice Shireen. They are far apart and separated by hostile, snowed-in territory. There is no obvious way or reason for her to come to him, and no reason for him to sacrifice her if he ever went back to the Wall (to take the black or something after losing the battle?). Even if they could get together, it would take time…time it is clear that Stannis does not have.

      Even if Stannis did somehow permit her sacrifice, one can only imagine what hell it would take him to convince him. Book Stannis, unlike his TV alter-ego, has not sacrificed any innocent people, is clearly not interested in religion any more than circumstances require (it is his men who call for burnings), and has loudly declared THERE WILL BE NO MORE BURNINGS despite the dire circumstances he finds himself in.

      Finally, even TV Stannis was right to sacrifice Shireen anyway, both from a consequentialist and utilitarian perspective. He did it to save lives and it DID save lives (though not in the way he wished…the sellswords survived because they ran and lots of Bolton soldiers survived because of the lop-sided fight!). “Sacrifice one to save many” is a tough moral question, not a slam dunk. Compare what he did to what Dany did (commit genocide against 163 men of a certain race/class in order to assert her rule) or the Sand Snakes and Ellaria (murder a young girl in order to start a war), or Tyrion (murder someone for cheating on him) and Stannis looks like a saint. The list of non-murderers in GoT main cast is actually pretty short – Sansa, Bran, Jon, Ned, Robb, Margaery, Loras, and unless I am mistaken, Bronn. Many fan favorites, in contrast, are murderers – Dany, Tyrion, Catelyn, the Hound, Arya, Jaime, Cersei, etc etc.

      It is unlikely that Stannis will sacrifice Shireen in the books, and if he does, it will only be because he believes it is the only way to prevent the end of the world. That is not evil, that is self-sacrifice of the highest order. It is much more likely that Mel sacrifices Shireen without Stannis’s consent in order to save Jon, which I find a satisfying scenario as it adds a dark tone to Jon’s potential resurrection. If GRRM gives us our hero back, it should come at a price. Unfortunately, the TV show has thrown the most likely blood payment in the trash, so it’s unclear what if anything they will substitute.

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    148. The thing is that some people don’t understand that changing some details doesn’t change the story.
      Stannis character is the same in the book and in the show, a man convinced he is a savior of the world and willing to do anything to achieve his goal. And so on with other characters.

      They seems like those taking a bus avery day to go from A to B and sitting always on the right seat of the bus.
      If they once seat an the left side if the bus they dn’t realize that they are doing the same joirney and going to the same place, just because the landacape is different from what they are used to.

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    149. Kundry,

      A nice analogy, I read: Your destination is the airport, you can take the bike, or a car, or you can walk. but in the end you always arrive at the airport.

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    150. SlayerNina,

      I’m sure there are other people, with more or less the same objections as you. The only difference is they don’t say it 20 times a day, like you, 3 months later.

      You didn’t like Sansa’s story, Shireen’s,…..etc. You told us already, more then enough, get over it, and disscus the topic at hand, not ”the writers hate women”, wich is absurd, and just makes your other point’s obsolete.

      Then when you stop writing, essays about Sansa, people will start taking you seriously.

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    151. Hype Man Baelish: Reddit tier D & D apologists on this site need to wake up and stop glorifying these hacks. The moment they steer away from Martin’s writing is where the show is at its worst.

      That’s harsh HPB. I wouldn’t call Benioff and Weiss hacks. Do I think they always get it right, no (Talisa Twitface; yuk and I preferred book Ellaria to show Ellaria) – but I would say that for me (and in the end I can only speak for myself) I have had my interest held by the TV series more than I have rolled my eyes. And before you sound off at me for being a show “apologist” I have read the books (or at least listened to audio versions) and on the whole I enjoyed them. I’ve been listening (not finished yet) to a reading of the first book and in that volume at least GRRM’s writing style is good. Okay, you are not very keen on the show – can’t you just agree to disagree with people who are interested in it without casting aspersions on their intelligence?

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    152. Mihnea,
      Or you can go straight to the airport or you can take a detour, see the sights, do some shopping, make some friends on the way, since you still end up in the airport there’s no difference, right?
      I disagree. The journey matters.

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    153. kit_hepburn,

      There appears to be a breakdown in the GoT fandom intelligence network, as Ms Lena Headey and Natalie Dormer have both come and gone in Girona without any spy reports, apparently D&D utilized ye olde method of misdirection.

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    154. There was filming at locations at night, it’s totally possible there were stars at places we couldn’t see. I don’t mind, it’s kind of nice to have some surprises. But also be careful about translating articles: sometimes in these articles they’re referring to the vacations to that Nikolaj and Sophie took in Spain. Make sure they’re thinking of recent sightings.

      I don’t know who thinks they can use a slur here like f*g but if you do it again, you will be completely banned. Those posts are deleted. Be civil.

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    155. Mihnea:
      SlayerNina,

      I’m sure there are other people, with more or less the same objections as you. The only difference is they don’t say it 20 times a day, like you, 3 months later.

      You didn’t like Sansa’s story, Shireen’s,…..etc. You told us already, more then enough, get over it, and disscus the topic at hand, not ”the writers hate women”, wich is absurd, and just makes your other point’s obsolete.

      Then when you stop writing, essays about Sansa, people will start taking you seriously.

      The writers HATE women. That’s why any female character remotedly safe or happy are changed, erased or make sad. And the worst part they don’t understand why people points them as antifemales.

      Just some great analysis. It discuss characters, themes and representation in an analytic way.

      http://gotgifsandmusings.tumblr.com/post/119403805073/meta-analysis-roundup-post

      But if you prefer we discuss how three-dimensional characters and plots are turned in the same Hollywood clichés we have seen before, and how this characters change their characterisation for the sake of the episode’s plot, we can be here days.

      The “snow ball” effect Martin speaked is affecting overall narrative. And it’s being increased year after year. This is what we had when D&D were fully on their own: Dorne, the North and Tyrion’s new journey.

      What if Stannis ended as the true king? If the character is dead, how this affect the end? Show!Dany and Show!Jon as rulers?
      What if one of the SS poisons Cersei?
      What if Tyrion is not one of the dragon’s head and is killed by something really stupid?

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    156. kit_hepburn:
      http://www.diaridegirona.cat/girona/2015/09/09/vuit-actors-principals-ja-han/742507.html

      Can we make anything of the fact that a bunch of actors have been in Girona unspotted, and that possibly *Sophie Turner* was/is there too?! (which is surprising)

      Well, King’s Landing shoots there as well, doesn’t it? The article suggested that Cersei, Marge etc., filmed indoors.

      Or, we could make for ‘none of these people will be in the huge horse-on-steps- scene that’s supposed to be there this/next week’.

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    157. Laura:
      I rewatched S3-S5 this long weekend and honestly, I was riveted by much of S3 and S4 ( but a lot of the eps in S5 were a slog. I am not a show hater at all – I love the show. For me personally, all the religious stuff was very boring, so that made the KL storyline in general a snooze for me. Brienne was such a beyotch to Pod for much of the season, Tyrion was a depressed drunk, Sansa was a captive (again), Arya’s story was more setup than anything else, Jamie didn’t know what the hell he was doing etc etc. The Wall and Stannis storylines were much improved from earlier seasons but that can’t make up for the defects in the other stories. We lost a LOT of good characters in S4 – Joffrey, Tywin, The Hound, Ygritte, Bran and crew (temporarily) and there just wasn’t enough good stuff to fill those holes, imo. We all have our preferences. I would rate the seasons as follows: 1>3>4>2>5 with 3 and 4 and 2 and 5 pretty interchangeable in terms of rankings. I can’t wait for S6 and I hope it blows S1 out of the water!

      I agree almost completely. I had a really hard time with season two but I think season 5 is way worse. I NEED an outstanding season 6. Please HBO, avoid shocking moment for the sake of shock and keep your bad pussies, and give me some great dialogues and compelling characters and story.

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    158. Kundry:
      The thing is that some people don’t understand that changing some details doesn’t change the story.
      Stannis character is the same in the book and in the show, a man convinced he is a savior of the world and willing to do anything to achieve his goal. And so on with other characters.

      They seems like those taking a bus avery day to go from A to B and sitting always on the right seat of the bus.
      If they once seat an the left side if the bus they dn’t realize that they are doing the same joirney and going to the same place, just because the landacape is different from what they are used to.

      You can go to another “B point”.
      You can arrive alive. You can arrive death. But you’re arriving at point B anyway.
      You arrived to point B. But maybe the story it’s not the arrival to point B, it’s the people you met on the journey and your journey is just an excuse noone interesting it to develop that meeting.

      The travel journey comparision never works well. The travel matters.

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    159. Chad Brick,

      But they also heavily ‘foreshadowed’ that Jon would die at Hardhome – you forget all the times they ‘fake foreshadowed’ something to mess with us and ratchet up suspense. So just because all the signs point to something, doesn’t mean it is a given. Say what you will about D&D, their directors, and Ramin Djawadi, but they are REALLY good at that.

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    160. Sue the Fury:
      There was filming at locations at night, it’s totally possible there were stars at places we couldn’t see. I don’t mind, it’s kind of nice to have some surprises. But also be careful about translating articles: sometimes in these articles they’re referring to the vacations to that Nikolaj and Sophie took in Spain. Make sure they’re thinking of recent sightings.

      I don’t know who thinks they can use a slur here like f*g but if you do it again, you will be completely banned. Those posts are deleted. Be civil.

      Thanks for stepping in. This is getting out of hand. I come to this site to get the latest news and get hyped with the rest of the GoT fandom.
      I hate to see a few spoil it for the rest of us. We may have disagreements, but getting nasty is uncalled for. Stop throwing temper tantrums like five year olds.
      The show is an ‘adaptation’ , folks who complain should look in the dictionary to see what it means. We only have 8 seasons with 10 episodes. There is stuff that will be left out or storyline will be combined. That’s it. Get over it and play nice.

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    161. SlayerNina,

      So the writers hate women? You mean David Benioff who has two daughters with his wife Amanda Peet? Lots of misogynism there.

      Your;e allowed to have your own opinion but personally, I think your out of line there. Does the show have an agenda to cater to various demographics and not take certain risks as a way to alienate that demographic? I think so. Is the show afraid to give every protagonist a shade of gray? For some reason, yes. Probably because the budget on the series means that they can’t have unlikeable protagonists or some of the less inclined to enjoy dramas with moral ambiguity would abandon the show. Is the show a victim of a sexism that is nascent in the film/tv industry? Alas yes. Is the series/HBO reluctant to be more than just shocking and really challenge its audience? I believe so.

      But are Weiss and Benioff women haters? We have no evidence to support that other than a television series in which that type of writing is influenced by several factors unrelated to the writers being misogynists.

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    162. SlayerNina,

      The writers HATE women?? Oh puh-lease!!
      That must mean that all the actors/actresses playing their roles must also hate women, and all the women who watch the show HATE thenselves, and, of course, D&D must absolutely hate their wives, mothers, sisters, daughters etc.

      Get over yourself!

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    163. Nymeria Warrior Queen: I think one of the elements which made season 5 so enjoyable for me (not that it I thought it flawless, mind you, but some of the parts I didn’t enjoy as much, or found disappointing were mitigated by some moments I thought were amazing)

      This pretty much sums up my feelings about Season 5, too. Very well put. I kept saying during the voting for the best scenes, etc., with so many wonderful moments, how can anyone totally write off the season?

      Someone commented on the possible dry wasteland of material to report once the filming of S6 is complete. What’s been done in prior years to keep up the interest? I’m glad I sort of kept in touch with the site during last winter, else I wouldn’t have known about the IMAX offerings. That was exciting. I look forward to checking here during the coming months, just hope the vitriol level doesn’t go off the charts in some of the discussions, but I guess that tug-of-words goes with being part of an avid fandom.

      In keeping with the topic of this thread, I’m with those who think McShane is Howland Reed. That was my opinion from the beginning. If he needs a touch of Crannogman to make it convincing, they can put a bit of a green undertone when they do his make-up. I had no idea about the Meribald character, now I will have to read up on him. That pic of him with the beard, though, looks very distinguished. Could be a lord we don’t know about.

      Thanks, Sue and company, for all the hard work. Dame, if you and JC want some company when u go out for your drink, let me know.

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    164. Chad Brick:

      Finally, even TV Stannis was right to sacrifice Shireen anyway, both from a consequentialist and utilitarian perspective. He did it to save lives and it DID save lives (though not in the way he wished…the sellswords survived because they ran and lots of Bolton soldiers survived because of the lop-sided fight!). “Sacrifice one to save many” is a tough moral question, not a slam dunk.

      I don’t buy this argument. He didn’t do it to save lives, he did it to WIN. Stannis didn’t anticipate his sellswords leaving and he certainty didn’t sacrifice his daughter to save Bolton soldiers!

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    165. Joshua Atreides:
      SlayerNina,

      So the writers hate women? You mean David Benioff who has two daughters with his wife Amanda Peet?Lots of misogynism there.

      Your;e allowed to have your own opinion but personally, I think your out of line there. Does the show have an agenda to cater to various demographics and not take certain risks as a way to alienate that demographic? I think so. Is the show afraid to give every protagonist a shade of gray? For some reason, yes. Probably because the budget on the series means that they can’t have unlikeable protagonists or some of the less inclined to enjoy dramas with moral ambiguity would abandon the show. Is the show a victim of a sexism that is nascent in the film/tv industry? Alas yes. Is the series/HBO reluctant to be more than just shocking and really challenge its audience? I believe so.

      But are Weiss and Benioff women haters? We have no evidence to support that other than a television series in which that type of writing is influenced by several factors unrelated to the writers being misogynists.

      That’s sounds to me totally as “I’m not racist, I even have many black friends!”. Funny fact: chauvinistic have mothers, sisters, female friends, daughters and wifes/girlfriends. PS: All the arguments defending the writers fall when you remind they never thought the Jaime-Cersei sept scene was rape or put in Brienne’s/Arya’s badass mouth phrases such “cunt!” “most women are idiots” or “you cry like a woman”. Maybe they’re not hating women, but you know their writing is sexist and the worst part they didn’t seem to know why is sexist. But ey, “because I didn’t see it, it didn’t happen”!

      Demographic target for S&F show and Medieval Fantasy are always white men between 15-35 years old. The “geeky audience” it’s a fact. Marketing studies support this. They were surprised when it turns out a lot of women (and “non white” people) loved the show.

      Audiences root for assholes and villains. Another fact. You can have a beloved unlikeable character with any problem. Do you think The Big Bang Theory watched the show for Leonard, HIMYM for Ted Mosby, Hannibal/Dexter/True Detective/Breaking Bad for whatever nice character is there? The bad rules! What’s your point? Anyway, if season 4 and 5 created the meme “St Tyrion”, you must thought about it.

      red viper:
      SlayerNina,

      The writers HATE women?? Oh puh-lease!!
      That must mean that all the actors/actresses playing their roles must also hate women, and all the women who watch the show HATE thenselves, and, of course, D&D must absolutely hate their wives, mothers, sisters, daughters etc.

      Get over yourself!

      I don’t think the actors/actresses hate women (Maisie Williams doesn’t seem to know what “feminism” is, though). They do its job.

      But Nat Dormer complained last year about the scene between Tommen-Margaery-Ser Pounce was inapropiate and this year after the Mag-Tommen bed scene is quiet, just sayin’. Not like Dean Charles Chapman. Which means they had to do their jobs.

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    166. Hype Man Baelish: The moment they steer away from Martin’s writing is where the show is at its worst.

      Not completly true, yes Dorne was terrible and Sansa + Littlefinger were full of plotholes, but they also improved Tyrion’s story by cutting all those endless wanderings, they tried to give Jaime and Bronn something interesting to do, and at first it worked. And they have much improved the characters of Cercei and Daenerys, even Daario.

      So I would say they had their hits and their miss. I feel Dorne was rushed, maybe because they didn’t have enough time to shoot those scenes in that palace location. And the merging of Sansa and Jeyne Pool arcs can make some sense, but I believe they should have thought longer that idea.

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    167. SlayerNina: The writers HATE women. That’s why any female character remotedly safe or happy are changed, erased or make sad. And the worst part they don’t understand why people points them as antifemales.

      By that standard, they also hate men. But I don’t believe they hate anyone.

      I don’t know why you’re so angry about everything, but you need to take it down about 10 notches. I find a lot of respect for different viewpoints on this site, but spouting vitriol isn’t a good way to get a point across.

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    168. SlayerNina,

      Their writing may be sexist and I stated the reasons why they may write that way but Hollywood doesn’t see things the way that we do, they don’t have the time to worry about offending people they just need to tell a story. If they worry about every little detail offending someone nothing would get made. (honestly I have been trying to write a book for the longest time but now I am scared to finish it because I don’t want to offend people in this kneejerk culture where portraying something like rape on screen is tantamount to supporting it) But thank you for admitting at least that Benioff and Weiss may not actually HATE women. Because your dislike for them comes across as very personal in your writing so I wonder if you actually believed that. I see you are passionate about the show and tend to use a lot of hyperbole in your posts. I will take your more extreme comments with a grain of salt now and focus on your insights instead.

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    169. SlayerNina: Audiences root for assholes and villains. Another fact. You can have a beloved unlikeable character with any problem

      I think audiences are interested in the development of, and revelation of traits and deeds of the bad guy, but still want the worst of them to get at least knocked on their asses. They don’t want the truly heinous ones to go unpunished; it’s revenge as catharsis, relief from evil on some plane of one’s life, even if only in the plot of a tv show.

      Even here, on these threads, you find comments longing for Ramsey to die horribly, yet not so much for Roose. Both are murderers. Why is one worse than the other?The public wrestling with questions of why things happen as they happen is intensely interesting to me – I’m glad there are places to do it, like here.

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    170. OK, did my little bit of research, found the Meribald speech mentioned so many times — if even a portion of that speech is done by an actor the caliber of McShane, the episode will be awesome. If McShane is cast as Meribald, he will certainly do the words proud, even though there isn’t one “cocksucker” to be uttered in the entire thing.

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    171. Pigeon: By that standard, they also hate men. But I don’t believe they hate anyone.

      I don’t know why you’re so angry about everything, but you need to take it down about 10 notches. I find a lot of respect for different viewpoints on this site, but spouting vitriol isn’t a good way to get a point across.

      I don’t believe they hate their characters. But if you look closely, men most part of the time achieve something or improve their situation after being royally scr*wed. Or die fast. It seems thematically that most of women problems come from motherhood/sexually nature (caused by sex or punished sexually). With the exception of Dany (and she’s still the Mother of Dragons).

      Stannis died.
      Davos is safe at the Wall.
      Jon is stabbed (punished by its decisions at least).
      Sam has sex and go out the Wall.
      Tyrion ends as ruler.
      Jaime go to Dorne and return safe.
      Same with Bronn, with the promise of the Dornish bad pussy and his new wife and lands.
      Pod is still here and quite safe.
      Tommen had a happy time.
      Theon is no Reek anymore.
      The Bolton win.
      LF win.
      Varys win.

      Ellaria’s vendetta his all about her lover is killed.
      Myrcella is killed by ditto vendetta. It’s implied she was the next of the list of her boyfriend latin lover.
      Margaery gets imprisoned. She consumated her wedding so Loras is arrested instead.
      Cersei being naked punishment for murder.
      Sansa’s rape.
      Gilly’s attempted rape (and later, give sex to Sam).
      Arya killed the pedophile who threatened her. There were the catcalling first.
      Shireen was killed. I wonder if Stannis have kill her if she was a boy.
      Melisandre try to use sex and didn’t achieve anything.
      Karsi was killed by zombie children.
      Selyse commits suicide after her daughter’s death (odd, because she was 4 seasons on team burning).
      Olenna put herself in danger to protect her descendants.

      I would have prefer some more equality thematically. There’s no necessity to add more sexual/mom punishment. Female characters killed by the decisions they made, rather than “hey, we need more drama! What’s the wrong thing could happen to them? Add rape/sexual abuse/she’s a mother, let’s gonna screw her!”.

      By example: Brienne is killed in a combat doing her duty! Podrick is now alone! Ellaria is doing her vendetta for political reasons! Meryn was not a pedophile, but Syrio’s murderer!… That’s different.

      Fine, I’ll stop here.

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    172. Thronetender,

      I guess it’s how it’s portrayed. Tywin did the Rains of Castamere and the RW, being a total d*ck to Tyrion, yet is one of the fanfavourites.

      Jaime and Theon were redeemed by the readers/watchers after a long, long punishment.

      Cersei (in the books, in the show it’s downplayed a lot) is a real villain, who inflicted among others the pain she had suffered… Yet, you feel bad for her when you read her relationship with Robert.

      The Hound is another d*ck, but part of you is like “awwww poor puppy”…

      The only characters that doesn’t seem to have “apologists” were the flat evil-evil: the Mountain and Walder Frey. Even Joffrey or Viserys have apologists about how young they were and how the inbreeding can affect them…

      Besides, they’re charismatics evils XD

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    173. Shy Lady Dragon:
      Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Imo he looks much better now than in his youth – when I saw him in old movies I couldn’t understand why he was considered attractive. It’s the same with Sean Connery, I think.

      Whoa. Are you a mind-reader, or are we related, or something???

      When I made the post about McShane, I was thinking the only other actor I’ve thought that way about was Sean Connery. When I saw him in Highlander (There Can Be Only One!!!), and I was rather young, I remember thinking, “ok, I’m not into to men who are decades older than I, but, wow…wouldn’t kick that one out of my bed.” After that, I went back and watched him in an early Bond film, and he did nothing for me. It’s the same with McShane, although I loved the youtube Frosty posted, he just doesn’t do it for me in his younger days, but now…

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    174. MeeraReed:
      Is it me, or are people forgetting about Arianne Martell?

      They killed her! They erased her! They substituted her by the SS! XD

      She’s gonna be lost forever, like Stoneheart, Strong Belwas and the Boltons dressed in pink, but the Readers Remember. 😀

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    175. Joshua Atreides,

      I think it’s more that how is adressed the issue and the posterior trauma created for that issue. Political correctiveness have more in common with “don’t use the same sexist/homophobic/racist clichés used always just for the sake of using them”.

      The parents of your hero are dead? Fine, but don’t use that just to create “the hero”. Make your character think about it. Your hero wants a revenge? Don’t use again the credit card of wife and daughter/son mureded. Your female character is raped? She should be scared for a while, not become the ultimate Terminator the next page and not being raped as a tool to piss off other male character. You have a muslim there? Please, another terrorist/sumise female plot no! Chinese character? No kung-fu!

      PS: If you ever publish a book, I want to read it. Tvtropes.org is awesome to analyse texts and stuff (and that’s how you know if something was made before lol)

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    176. SlayerNina: The writers HATE women. That’s why any female character remotedly safe or happy are changed, erased or make sad. And the worst part they don’t understand why people points them as antifemales.

      Actually Nina, the writers are doing a good job act depicting how hard it was for women in the medieval era, where men were very much in control of the world, and women had to either stay quiet and let everything happen in and around them, or become brave enough to stand up and be heard, fight and make changes; trying to gain some sort of control over their own persons. And it is depicted in different ways in different areas of the map.
      We have Asha, Arya, Brienne and Ygritte who use their minds and physical strength to do the jobs themselves, so to speak. They don’t want to be controlled and molded. They didn’t need a man to help them get to where they are, for good or for bad. If they want to do something, they do it. If they want to take something, they take it.

      We have Daenarys, Margary, Cersei and Melisandre, all who have empowered themselves through more of a lioness, watching, waiting to make their move where the best opportunity lies for them to get what they want. They watch for any sign of weakness within the people around them, especially the men, to whom they will use their feminine wiles to strengthen their hold on a situation. They are strategic and aren’t usually prone to showing their emotions, but when they do, the “hell hath no fury like a woman scorned” analogy is frighteningly accurate and they will find a way to get their revenge.

      We have the more unassuming women such as Catelyn and Sansa. Sansa in particular has been a fascinating character because of her development and transition from child to woman all while chaos is constantly reeling around her. She has been used as a pawn, physically, emotionally and mentally tortured in many ways. You watch as she begins to pick up certain cues and traits of the people who use her and know that everything she is learning is sinking in, waiting for the time to when she digs in and uses it to try to gain back some control over herself. Sansa is the story’s survivor. She has taken so much, but she is not backing down. She is much stronger than she looks. She is much stronger than even she realizes.

      In many medieval stories, we only hear of one woman exhibiting one or all of these traits, becoming victorious or a martyr in the end. This story is showing their lead women with a variety of strengths, depicting not just one heroine but all of them heroines. (Yeah, except maybe Melisandre, unless she resurrects Jon…lol)

      So I have to disagree with you. If anything, they show has highlighted different strengths in different women more than any other medieval show/movie has, all in compliance to the brutal environment/world that they have had to endure all their lives. They have been tested equally to men. They have used men. They have fought like men. They have developed strategies like the men. They have set goals like the men. They have sacrificed like the men. They have suffered like the men. They have won some like the men. And they have lost some like the men. They have lived and died like the men.

      This is equal opportunity storytelling set within a very unequal environment. I hope what I’ve said helps you realize that.

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    177. SlayerNina,

      I don’t think so. She just hasn’t been introduced yet. I think there is a reason Dorne existed last season more than just “that’s where the princess is – let’s send them the head of a dwarf”. I think if they introduced her at the same time as the SS, the viewers who don’t re-watch each scene over and over might get confused about who she is. Most of the main players had been previously introduced- and introducing the five characters was a lot for the general audience to grasp. Even though Doran was mentioned previously, the people I know who watch the show (not as closely as I do) had NO IDEA who he was until I explained it to them. So with Doran, the Prince, and the three SS, I think introducing Arianne (and her story) would be too much for many VIEWERS to absorb in a small amount of time. Introducing Arianne in season 6 however helps to bring all the pieces together. viewers will say “oh, I see now” – just like they did when they had NO IDEA who Ramsey was or the reason he is so vile. I cannot recall the source, but I also believe I read we will see more of the SS this season, not just the three. I’ll try to find the source. (I usually don’t recall the source since I’m only interested in their news. This site generally being the exception as I am addicted.)

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    178. Chad Brick: Which was what exactly?

      How is the rightful king assassinating a traitor and thus preventing a bloody battle where thousands would die a “sin”? Heck, it is one of the most ethical decisions anyone on the show has made. I’ve read a ton of reviews and more posts than I can count since E10, and I can’t recall anyone saying “Boy, am I glad someone finally got vengeance for Renly!”. Instead, it was all about Shireen, as D&D intended.

      Frankly, Renly deserved to die. Outside of Littlefinger and Cersei, there is no one more responsible for Westeros’s current misery than him. He betrayed his brother and turned down an extremely fair deal in doing so, and thus destroyed his own house and turned the keys over to Joffrey. How many tens or hundreds of thousands died for his vanity?

      Were we supposed to feel good when Brienne broke her vows, engaged in massive hypocrisy, and joined Jaime in earning the title “Kingslayer”? Perhaps, but not because of Renly.

      No on is more accursed than the Kinslayer.

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    179. SciFiFantasyGirl,

      What a great post.

      Unfortunately, it will likely fall on deaf ears, at least in terms of the person to whom you were responding. She has been going on, and on, and on, (and on, and on) about how the show-runners hate women for quite a while, now. She even went so far as to make some really bizarre and, imo, rather sick accusations against them. When challenged by several people to back up her claims, she couldn’t, other than to say she’d read it somewhere.

      That said, I’m guessing I’m not the only one who will appreciate your post, so thanks, again.

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    180. Chad Brick,

      Just because we can’t think of a logical explanation, doesn’t mean I cannot happen. I any one of us could do so, GRRM would be unknown as one of us would have written the books. I’m going to take everything with a grain of salt – he obviously has a brilliant mind and knows what he is doing. And he is sharing that mind with D&D. I think all three of them have earned respect that they have some idea they know what they are doing.

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    181. Arianne was dreadful, and that whole part with the Myrcella plot was poorly plotted and written. I can’t remember anything about Arianne’s friends/accomplices, not even their names. Thank goodness they’ve all been ditched, at least I hope so. The only one of the Dornish women that piqued my interest was the Sand Snake that has not featured so far. As she hasn’t been mentioned, I doubt she’s in.

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    182. SlayerNina: I don’t believe they hate their characters. But if you look closely, men most part of the time achieve something or improve their situation after being royally scr*wed. Or die fast. It seems thematically that most of women problems come from motherhood/sexually nature (caused by sex or punished sexually). With the exception of Dany (and she’s still the Mother of Dragons).

      I’m not a mother, however it would seem pretty unrealistic to me if women in most societies weren’t motivated by the desire to protect their children. And unrealistic for it not to be a major consideration and vulnerability in a story like this.

      Stannis died. Yup, after losing everything.
      Davos is safe at the Wall. Safe? How do you know? Also having lost a number of his children serving Stannis.
      Jon is stabbed (punished by its decisions at least). Jon has been ‘punished’ by attempting to unite people vs a greater danger. He was also treated unfairly and with contempt his entire life by Catelyn, by reason only of his existence.
      Sam has sex and go out the Wall. Sam has been verbally and physically abused because of his morals and his weight his whole life. His father told him that he either goes to the Wall, or he will arrange an ‘accident’ to kill him. He is made fun of an beaten up by his Brothers once there. He rescues Gilly from a horrible situation despite the risk to himself.
      Tyrion ends as ruler. I haven’t gotten that copy of a Dream of Spring, I’m afraid. Again, ridiculed and abused for being a dwarf and the audacity of being an intelligent one.
      Jaime go to Dorne and return safe. Jaime has no f*ckin hand. Returning safely with a corpse of a child he attempted to save.
      Same with Bronn, with the promise of the Dornish bad pussy and his new wife and lands. So?
      Pod is still here and quite safe. Safe?
      Tommen had a happy time. Yes, and is now having a bad time. Is a king that no one respects and is clueless to have any power of his own.
      Theon is no Reek anymore. Theon is missing body parts and is hardly able to speak in sentences.
      The Bolton win. Win a battle, yes.
      LF win. Wins what?
      Varys win. Wins what?

      Ellaria’s vendetta his all about her lover is killed. Yeah, strange personality switch, there. Doesn’t care about endangering her daughters either.
      Myrcella is killed by ditto vendetta. It’s implied she was the next of the list of her boyfriend latin lover. Trystane was going to kill her? Doubt it. She is the victim of unscrupulous WOMEN, no men seemed to want her dead.
      Margaery gets imprisoned. She consumated her wedding so Loras is arrested instead. Yes, so unlike the book, she isn’t persecuted for not being a virgin. She’s imprisoned because of another woman’s cunning.
      Cersei being naked punishment for murder. Pretty sure that was for adultery, but are you complaining about the High Septon as well?
      Sansa’s rape. Not her fault, certainly. Still pissed that she threw away the corkscrew as well.
      Gilly’s attempted rape (and later, give sex to Sam). I’m not sure how that couldn’t be a risk at the Wall. She was also saved, by a rarely seen Ghost, and by Sam who got beaten up for it. ‘Gives’ sex to Sam? It was going to happen, she wasn’t doing him a favour. She initiated it, and I really don’t believe it was just because he saved her.
      Arya killed the pedophile who threatened her. There were the catcalling first. Good? Arya actually has the gumption to act instead of be passive. Maybe it’s a good thing to show how many girls she helped in the process.
      Shireen was killed. I wonder if Stannis have kill her if she was a boy. Well, Stannis saved her life as a helpless infant without being a boy.
      Melisandre try to use sex and didn’t achieve anything. She succeeded. She achieved almost everything she set out to do, up to realizing she was wrong about Stannis. At which point she has turned her sights to something new…..
      Karsi was killed by zombie children. Yes, so were many others. Her daughters weren’t, however.
      Selyse commits suicide after her daughter’s death (odd, because she was 4 seasons on team burning). Odd indeed.
      Olenna put herself in danger to protect her descendants. She also rid the world of Joffrey.

      I would have prefer some more equality thematically. There’s no necessity to add more sexual/mom punishment. Female characters killed by the decisions they made, rather than “hey, we need more drama! What’s the wrong thing could happen to them? Add rape/sexual abuse/she’s a mother, let’s gonna screw her!”.

      By example: Brienne is killed in a combat doing her duty! If Brienne was killed in combat, some people would likely be outraged because how dare they kill off a strong woman figure! Bet it’s a man killing her too! Podrick is now alone! Ellaria is doing her vendetta for political reasons! Meryn was not a pedophile, but Syrio’s murderer!… That’s different.

      Fine, I’ll stop here. Ok. 🙂

      I guess I just am of the strange belief that the show seems to have pretty equal opportunity at both genders having their share of triumph and awfulness.

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    183. Paul: This made me LOL! I have to say I’ve also been wondering how long does it take those set decorators (and let’s face it there are dozens of them if the pics are any indication) to place a few fruit baskets and hang some canopies/drapes on that staircase!? Those fish must stink by now

      They’re mostly plastic (lmfao at the plastic crayfish) except the squid. Those, I said before, look real. And if you’ve ever encountered dried squid… daamn, you’re not wrong *holds nose and gags*

      I’m eager to find out about the origins of Hodor, but also very sad if he wasn’t born challenged, and if it was a whack on the head from a wooden sparring sword that did it. Some part of me just thinks that’s the most awful thing, because of the fact he can’t properly communicate his feelings and thoughts. A total accident, and then everything is changed forever.

      ….Which means it could entirely happen in this series. :/

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    184. SlayerNina: Stannis died.
      Davos is safe at the Wall.
      Jon is stabbed (punished by its decisions at least).
      Sam has sex and go out the Wall.
      Tyrion ends as ruler.
      Jaime go to Dorne and return safe.
      Same with Bronn, with the promise of the Dornish bad pussy and his new wife and lands.
      Pod is still here and quite safe.
      Tommen had a happy time.
      Theon is no Reek anymore.
      The Bolton win.
      LF win.
      Varys win.

      Ellaria’s vendetta his all about her lover is killed.
      Myrcella is killed by ditto vendetta. It’s implied she was the next of the list of her boyfriend latin lover.
      Margaery gets imprisoned. She consumated her wedding so Loras is arrested instead.
      Cersei being naked punishment for murder.
      Sansa’s rape.
      Gilly’s attempted rape (and later, give sex to Sam).
      Arya killed the pedophile who threatened her. There were the catcalling first.
      Shireen was killed. I wonder if Stannis have kill her if she was a boy.
      Melisandre try to use sex and didn’t achieve anything.
      Karsi was killed by zombie children.
      Selyse commits suicide after her daughter’s death (odd, because she was 4 seasons on team burning).
      Olenna put herself in danger to protect her descendants.

      Wanted to address some of these.
      -Davos is missing fingers, as was a punishment for his pirating.
      -Jon has been unloved, chastised, called names, felt and deemed worthless all to the point of thinking that if he goes to the wall he will perhaps make his ‘father’ proud and gain some sort of honor for once. He tries to rally people and save the realm from what he knows is coming, and is stabbed to death by his brothers.
      -Sam is a victim of child abuse. Goes to the wall, like Jon, not by any fault of his own, but to get away and become something else. He falls in love, but feels like a failure when Gilly is attacked.
      -Tyrion has been abused, called names, chastised, has been framed, has trusted and been burned for it, has ‘had’ to kill people he loved, has been put in a box for a long period of time, sold as a slave etc.
      – Jaime loves someone he can’t have, has been beaten, has been mutilated, has tried to redeem himself but usually fails, loses a child.
      – Bronn…well, is Bronn. He’s a sellsword, sidekick and likes to be rewarded for it. And very much the typical medieval guy.
      – Podrick has served people probably all his life. And we know he is going to die. I think that’s a given. He’s a good guy so hopefully it won’t be too much of a gruesome death.
      -Tommen is a product of incest and is being forced to grow up in a world to which he has NO understanding.
      – Theon was taken hostage as a kid and then forced to be a ward. He is a man who has been tied, stretched, sliced, diced, hit, burned, and had his dick chopped off and sent to his family, has been treated like a dog in every way and forced to watch a girl he grew up with raped by his tormentor.
      – The Boltons are going to get it….and get it bad. I’ve got little doubt that they will be flayed. A very fitting end for them.
      – Little Finger was sent away from his family. Was scorned and embarrassed trying to win over a girl. Not much, but he’s a behind the scenes player so to speak.
      – Varys was born a slave, orphaned, paralyzed yet wide awake when his dick was ‘cut off at the stem’ then thrown into fire for a magic ritual.
      These men have all triumphed and suffered at different times in their lives and the story is not near over.
      I have already addressed some of the women of Westeros/Essos in my previous reply to you. The women you mentioned above have and are going through situations that are suitable for that gender in medieval times. It’s not fair. It’s not pretty. But it’s accurate.
      Would you want revenge for your lovers death. Sure! Has a man wanted revenge for his lover’s death in the series. Yes!
      Have men been forced to be naked for shaming to be brought upon them in the series. Yes! (Theon)
      In history women are raped purely for the means of ‘reminding’ them how ‘powerless’ they are. That’s a historical fact that is being shown in the series.
      Gilly loves Sam, and wanted to show him the best way she knew how.
      Pedophilia is prominent in history. Arya, a woman killed him. Yay!
      Shireen would have been killed if she was a boy because it was about a sacrifice for King’s blood. Not a gender thing at all.
      Melisandre has just realized that everything she had been so sure about, was utterly and completely wrong, and all of the fighting and killing had been based on her error.
      Karsi wasn’t the only character killed by zombie children. They had killed people before her, and killed people after her.
      Selyse felt love for her daughter when it was too late to matter. Her guilt led her to her suicide. It was a strong mothering scene.
      Olenna is brave for putting herself in danger for her descendants, especially as a woman. She exhibits strength not only for women, but also for the elderly.

      So…AGAIN, I hope you can see the equality that has been shown from gender to gender throughout the show within the time period it is set in. And as I said, we aren’t near done. Characters are going to continuing their cycles of triumph and suffering right through to the end….if they don’t die beforehand.

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    185. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Aww, thank so much. Actually as I was writing both my responses I thought about piecing them together in some sort of blog post since this has been a misinterpreted issue for a while now among more radical feminist types. But like you said, it would probably fall on deaf ears. Who knows. I’ve gotten pretty specific to prove my points of equal sacrifice and suffering between characters of both sexes.

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    186. Pigeon: I guess I just am of the strange belief that the show seems to have pretty equal opportunity at both genders having their share of triumph and awfulness.

      I agree with you. I don’t think Game of Thrones is a sexist series, in any way. I do think it has a few very sexist fans, but that’s to be expected when anything has a massive audience (what really saddens me is the number of scumbags who say THE EXACT SAME THINGS ABOUT BRIENNE THAT HER DETRACTORS SAY IN THE SHOW AND BOOKS. Are these misogynists so stupid that they don’t understand GRR Martin and D&D are ridiculing the likes of them?)

      Regarding poor Sansa, it wouldn’t surprise me if there is a large, and largely silent, contingent of fans who find her experiences in some way reflect their own lives, or are a cathartic experience. Out in the world, there are still plenty of women who are kicked from pillar to post by thug partners and psycho loonies who claim to have their best interests at heart. There are also plenty of people who then blame them for what’s been done to them. It isn’t ‘sexist’ to portray that.

      As for Olenna: just like Tywin Lannister, she is doing her best to ensure her family’s legacy. Tywin had to deal with a deadbeat dad and she has to deal with a useless son. Her favourite grandchild, and the one she clearly sees as the inheritor of the Tyrell legacy, is Margaery, a girl. It bewilders me that anyone would see her as lacking agency. She is doing her bit within the structures of a patriarchal society. OK, if she were a six foot two warlord with testosterone coursing through her veins, she would probably achieve what she does by openly waging wars. As she isn’t, she does it by influencing people (sometimes to wage war).

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    187. SciFiFantasyGirl:
      Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Aww, thank so much.Actually as I was writing both my responses I thought about piecing them together in some sort of blog post since this has been a misinterpreted issue for a while now among more radical feminist types.But like you said, it would probably fall on deaf ears.Who knows. I’ve gotten pretty specific to prove my points of equal sacrifice and suffering between characters of both sexes.

      *nods* I, also, seriously liked your arguments / statements btw, and just want to say – don’t be upset if people get upset. Sometimes, when someone wants to believe something, then there’s no convincing them otherwise. Both rad fems and extreme men’s rights types seem to be permanently pissed off about the series because it doesn’t stroke their political prejudices. I honestly don’t know why these people continue watching GoT. Some dude was whining that two of his favourite male characters had been cut and that an old cleaning lady was given the line ‘The North Remembers’, which should be a Manderly line. He seemed to think this was part of a secret feminist plot 😛 I was reading this thinking, cry me a river… firstly, we are getting Randyll Tarly, which was one of his faves, unsurprisingly (a murderous hard-man who bodyshames people). Secondly, both my fave lines in the entire series, uttered by women, have been genuinely cut. Them’s the breaks… 😀

      “When he gave his seed to her, he gave his soul as well” and “All my favourite Starks are dead”, in case you’re wondering.

      I also read someone from the rad fem contingent saying that the Sansa / Winterfell plot was ‘irresponsible storytelling’. Come on. It was way less grim than, say, everything that happens to

      Pia

      in the books. Some of that makes the hairs on your arms stand up… :/

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    188. SciFiFantasyGirl,

      The way I see it, especially since you already took the time to write out the posts, you may as well combine them into a blog post. If it makes even one person view things differently, even if only a little, or causes them to stop and think there may be more than one way of looking at it, I think it would be worth it. Of course, it isn’t my time being spent.

      Again, though, thank you for taking the time and stating what you said so well (not to mention rather thoughtfully!). 🙂

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    189. SciFiFantasyGirl,

      It’s also important to note that both in the show and the book that men are also victims of a male controlled society. Sam, Littlefinger, and Loras are perfect examples of this. Sam and LF were deemed weak and could not live up to the standard set for them–they weren’t big enough, strong enough, tough enough, didn’t want to achieve goals through violence. And they suffered for it. They had to adapt to society and in LF’s case it was a maladaption. Like women in such societies who choose to be manipulative, LF chose that but he chose it not to support a family or further his kingdom but to cause chaos and destroy it, hoping in the destruction to gain power that he could not gain via the common, acceptable route. Sam didn’t initially choose his route. The Wall was forced on him but once there he chose to play up his advantage, his smarts. He found a way to help the Watch by becoming a Maester (or at least trying to) and giving good advice to Jon. And still, even though he’s proved invaluable (they wouldn’t know about dragonglass without him) they STILL look down on him because he’s not “manly”. And then for Loras–he embodies many of the manly virtues and was valued for that but once his homosexuality is discovered, none of that matters any more. The homosexuality is a “master status” that overrides any other compliance to expectations. So in all fairness, as you said, it’s not just the women who suffer from the patriarchy–many of the men do too.

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    190. Dame Pasty,

      Very good points! Yes. Definitely a hierarchy in the men. Physical strength is valued above all else. Men who don’t exhibit the strength are deemed lesser men. Thanks for reminding me!

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    191. Nymeria Warrior Queen:
      SciFiFantasyGirl,

      The way I see it, especially since you already took the time to write out the posts, you may as well combine them into a blog post.If it makes even one person view things differently, even if only a little, or causes them to stop and think there may be more than one way of looking at it, I think it would be worth it.Of course, it isn’t my time being spent.

      Again, though, thank you for taking the time and stating what you said so well (not to mention rather thoughtfully!).

      Btw:

      I know I don’t know you ladies, but if you want a spot of info or two about the real status of women in medieval society for such a post, then shout. One of the whingefests from MRA extreme types is that women are given too much agency on Thrones compared to the real Middle Ages. That is complete rubbish. I think these plonkers may be thinking of the Renaissance. There were a tonne of sexually liberated or fighting women from Viking times through to about 1500. Only then did we all get packed off to the kitchen or risk being burnt as witches for having a warty nose or owning a cat.

      The flipside of the coin is that Thrones in no way exaggerates the brutality of total war at the time, especially with violence against women, including against entire towns and cities, mostly by ‘freerider’ knights and mercenaries 🙁 Rad fems are regrettably 100% wrong if they think this is simply the imagination of the show creators.

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    192. Dornish Pastie,

      I think another point is that with the popularity of Game of Thrones, there could very well be new fans to the genre who have never really been into medieval/fantasy before. So they are watching this and being completely shocked, and trying so hard to make it parallel to issues in today’s society which is pretty ridiculous. Over-analyzing medieval/fantasy fiction is like is like holding a piece of chocolate in your hand on a hot summer’s day and trying to keep it from melting. It doesn’t make sense. Just eat the damn thing and enjoy it! lol

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    193. SciFiFantasyGirl: Actually Nina, the writers are doing a good job act depicting how hard it was for women in the medieval era, where men were very much in control of the world, and women had to either stay quiet and let everything happen in and around them, or become brave enough to stand up and be heard, fight and make changes; trying to gain some sort of control over their own persons.And it is depicted in different ways in different areas of the map.

      Yes, men were in control. But there’s a difference between men in control and the rapey-rapey world of rapists they are displaying. Did you know the Vikings were on equallity? And that in Medieval an Oriental East if a women accused a man of a lower class of rape, they can kill them no matter what he said?
      And even in fictionnal sucked world of Westeros, I don’t believe sex slaves give free happy sex or a victim of sexual assault wants to f*ck one hour later to reward the hero.

      SciFiFantasyGirl:
      We have Asha, Arya, Brienne and Ygritte who use their minds and physical strength to do the jobs themselves, so to speak.They don’t want to be controlled and molded.They didn’t need a man to help them get to where they are, for good or for bad. If they want to do something, they do it.If they want to take something, they take it.

      Ygritte did things on her own.
      Asha and Brienne become warriors because they weren’t suitable for marriage and they were the last heir left.
      Brienne was saved by Jaime. Brienne wanted (or yet want) to be pretty.
      Arya was saved by Syrio Forel, Yoren, Jaqen, the Brotherhood, the Hound and the FM temple. All men. She doesn’t have agency until the Mercy chapter. And pass half of the books wining about how Sansa is beautiful than her and how she’s not cute enough to be saved.

      SciFiFantasyGirl:
      We have Daenarys, Margary, Cersei and Melisandre, all who have empowered themselves through more of a lioness, watching, waiting to make their move where the best opportunity lies for them to get what they want.They watch for any sign of weakness within the people around them, especially the men, to whom they will use their feminine wiles to strengthen their hold on a situation.They are strategic and aren’t usually prone to showing their emotions, but when they do, the “hell hath no fury like a woman scorned” analogy is frighteningly accurate and they will find a way to get their revenge.

      Cersei and Dany doesn’t have a clue about what they’re doing and this explode them both in their faces. Cersei, actually, was compared with things as wildfire, Aerys the Mad King and Maegor the Cruel.

      SciFiFantasyGirl:
      We have the more unassuming women such as Catelyn and Sansa.Sansa in particular has been a fascinating character because of her development and transition from child to woman all while chaos is constantly reeling around her.She has been used as a pawn, physically, emotionally and mentally tortured in many ways.You watch as she begins to pick up certain cues and traits of the people who use her and know that everything she is learning is sinking in, waiting for the time to when she digs in and uses it to try to gain back some control over herself. Sansa is the story’s survivor.She has taken so much, but she is not backing down.She is much stronger than she looks.She is much stronger than even she realizes.

      I wish the show give her political ideas to Catelyn and not make Sansa being crying all the time when she’s like an emotionless robot. And the little acts of defiance, like not kneeling.

      SciFiFantasyGirl:
      In many medieval stories, we only hear of one woman exhibiting one or all of these traits, becoming victorious or a martyr in the end. This story is showing their lead women with a variety of strengths, depicting not just one heroine but all of them heroines. (Yeah, except maybe Melisandre, unless she resurrects Jon…lol)

      So I have to disagree with you.If anything, they show has highlighted different strengths in different women more than any other medieval show/movie has, all in compliance to the brutal environment/world that they have had to endure all their lives.They have been tested equally to men.They have used men.They have fought like men.They have developed strategies like the men.They have set goals like the men.They have sacrificed like the men.They have suffered like the men. They have won some like the men.And they have lost some like the men.They have lived and died like the men.

      *… and they have been sexually assaulted or walking naked around sometimes for no discerneable reason. Like Mel’s almost every scene, the bathtube, or Daenerys the three first seasons (until the actress signed a non-boobs contract).

      Excepting the show had forced the characters into four arquetipes:

      Badass with magical weapons: Dany
      Nice girl to be rescued and help the hero: Shireen, Gilly, Sansa, Missandei, Meera, Osha, Catelyn
      Cunning resentful bitches with the power of the vagina who catfights each other: Melisandre, the Tyrells, Myranda, Ellaria, Cersei (downplayed and mixed with Tiger Mom Power)
      Warriors tomboys withouth any feminine trait and seem to hate “femenine skills”: Arya, Brienne, Yara
      Bonus extra: the bitches sexually liberated warriors: the SS

      Anything out of the mold, is cutted out. I know it’s difficult to translate things from books to shows, but there’s a limit in which you can go OOC.

      Dornish Pastie,

      Funny facts about Brienne, especially show watchers believe 😀 :

      a) She’s idiot
      b) She won Jaime because he’s lefthanded
      c) She won the Hound because he was sick

      Like the Rainbow Guard and win Loras didn’t matter at all.

      PS: Maybe Youtube watchers are just assholes, so this is not important.

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    194. SciFiFantasyGirl:
      Have men been forced to be naked for shaming to be brought upon them in the series. Yes! (Theon)

      Let’s not forget the wine merchant who was dragged naked behind Daenerys’s horse.

      Thank you for your excellent posts. I cannot be doing with people who object to fictional events because they want everything to be as it would be in their own perfect world. Which is equally fictional of course.

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    195. Did everyone forget about the former High Septon towards the start of Season 5? He got busted “ministering” to brothel workers by the Sparrows and was made to undergo a Walk of Atonement.

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    196. SciFiFantasyGirl: Wanted to address some of these.

      – Davos came from pirate to Hand of the King. Now is on secret mission to find Rickon.
      – Jon is the Designated Fantasy Hero. Orphan, non important, rejected by the society, not good social skills, especial (direwolf). It’s the Anakin, the Harry Potter, the Eragon orthe Frodo of the story. And there’s any, Sullied or Unsullied, who don’t believe Jon’s coming back as AA, the Prince Promised, the Last Hero on the Last Battle of whatever you want to call him.
      – If he doesn’t get killed, Sam has a brilliant future as a maester (a thing he desires) and had sex, both things he didn’t think he could have.
      – Tyrion in show is the ruler of Meeren. In books, it’s the third head of the dragon. And noone’s believe he’s gonna be killed soon.
      – Jaime has improved himself. He doesn’t give a f*ck about his children.
      – Bronn is a lord now. And I don’t believe he will be killed.
      – Podrick (maybe, not sure) can die. It’s an extra, unless Martin do the “what if he become a legendary knight or something” route.
      – Tommen can die if the prophecy is true. At least he’s happy with his kittens.
      – Theon would be happy if he dies. If not, there’s still a chance to recovery (and even have a wife, since Jeyne is on “let’s do this!” mode.
      – It would be a delicious irony if the Boltons survived. Martin didn’t kill all the bad ones.
      – Little Finger was screwed when he was a child. If Sansa (or someone) didn’t kill him, he’ll be a player the rest of his life.
      – Varys was screwed when he was a child. It’s the Master Player. If or someone didn’t kill him, he’ll be a player the rest of his life.

      These men have all triumphed and suffered at different times in their lives and the story is not near over.I have already addressed some of the women of Westeros/Essos in my previous reply to you.The women you mentioned above have and are going through situations that are suitable for that gender in medieval times.It’s not fair.It’s not pretty.But it’s accurate.

      They invented Gilly’s attempted rape, Meera’s attempted rape, Arya’s attempted rape, Cersei’s consexual rape changed into rape, Sansa’s plot changed into rape and Osha’s seducing Theon/Theon molesting her. And sexposition and sexual deaths. Lack of originality.

      Would you want revenge for your lovers death. Sure!Has a man wanted revenge for his lover’s death in the series. Yes!
      Have men been forced to be naked for shaming to be brought upon them in the series. Yes! (Theon)

      Not sure about the revenge. They messed up Tysha’s thing, and Shae’s death was only Tyrion’s fault… Jon didn’t kill Olly in revenge for Ygritte’s death. And there’s no more lovers’ revenge, I think (Cat wanted her daughters back, too).
      Theon was punished by destroying Winterfell. Cersei (books and show) was punished by having sex being a widow, the trial by combat is because she didn’t admit murder Robert.

      In history women are raped purely for the means of ‘reminding’ them how ‘powerless’ they are.That’s a historical fact that is being shown in the series.

      – Why can Gilly have sex in an equality moment (like the books), with Sam in a situation he’s not being coerced and in a scene that is not “sex as a reward” vibes?
      – Meryn Trant didn’t need to be a paedo to be killed. In a scene he spends more time hitting girs with a stick and full close ups than Arya actually killing him. And creates horrible comparisons between Sansa’s rape (she didn’t do anything) and Arya (she defend herself).
      – Again, the death of Shireen was pointless. If Stannis won the battle, then, what? He’s heirless and that creates another problem of sucession (which is the cause of the war). Plus, he lost anyway.
      – Melisandre has realised her error, after having Jon Snow touching her boobs for a long time. Her magic is gone.
      – Karsi was supposed to be a man killed by zombie children. They changed her gender on purpose because it seems a dude can’t be a father and be scared of zombie children. And she died powerless, when the people surrounding her were still fighting. She can die fighting like the others (which I assume they’re also fathers and mothers) but nooo. That’s insulting.
      – Selyse motherhood was used to redeem her character. She was a HORRIBLE mother. But since mothers have to be good, she was good too. Comparison with Stannis, the wolf dad turned suddenly into a stone. Again, after 4 season telling us she sucks at parenting and he rules.
      – Olenna had again this motherhood rule.

      PS: I enjoy to debate with you. Fan of the idea your blog 😀

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    197. Grandmaester Flash: Let’s not forget the wine merchant who was dragged naked behind Daenerys’s horse.

      Thank you for your excellent posts.I cannot be doing with people who object to fictional events because they want everything to be as it would be in their own perfect world.Which is equally fictional of course.

      Robb Snow,

      Both punished few seconds. Not fanservice here.

      But if you want more cocks, there’s Hodor cock (not used by fanservice of the audience or sexposition) and Theon (who become cockeless -is that even a word-?)

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    198. MeeraReed,

      They could have erased the SS (tertiary flat at the moment characters) and give all their scenes to Arianne. And erase the two fights, that didn’t really add anything.

      Given the timming, Jaime and Bronn going to Dorne happened after we had the first scenes of Dorne (Doran and Areo, Doran-Areo-Ellaria and Ellaria and the SS, I think), so their presence there didn’t serve as and introduction…

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    199. Men are typically the biggest recipients of extreme physical torture and violence in the show. I don’t talk about it much because it doesn’t really bother me, in GoT or in any other piece of fiction. And I wouldn’t care much if they pulled out the stops on male nudity and rape either. It would actually be somewhat refreshing in a demented sort of way because so few other popular movies or shows are willing to take it to that level for whatever reason.

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    200. SlayerNina:
      Both punished few seconds. Not fanservice here.

      But if you want more cocks, there’s Hodor cock (not used by fanservice of the audience or sexposition) and Theon (who become cockeless -is that even a word-?)

      What on earth are you talking about? You’ve lost me.

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    201. SlayerNina: – Davos came from pirate to Hand of the King. Now is on secret mission to find Rickon.
      – Jon is the Designated Fantasy Hero. Orphan, non important, rejected by the society, not good social skills, especial (direwolf). It’s the Anakin, the Harry Potter, the Eragon orthe Frodo of the story. And there’s any, Sullied or Unsullied, who don’t believe Jon’s coming back as AA, the Prince Promised, the Last Hero on the Last Battle of whatever you want to call him.
      – If he doesn’t get killed, Sam has a brilliant future as a maester (a thing he desires) and had sex, both things he didn’t think he could have.
      – Tyrion in show is the ruler of Meeren. In books, it’s the third head of the dragon. And noone’s believe he’s gonna be killed soon.
      – Jaime has improved himself. He doesn’t give a f*ck about his children.
      – Bronn is a lord now. And I don’t believe he will be killed.
      – Podrick (maybe, not sure) can die. It’s an extra, unless Martin do the “what if he become a legendary knight or something” route.
      – Tommen can die if the prophecy is true. At least he’s happy with his kittens.
      – Theon would be happy if he dies. If not, there’s still a chance to recovery (and even have a wife, since Jeyne is on “let’s do this!” mode.
      – It would be a delicious irony if the Boltons survived. Martin didn’t kill all the bad ones.
      – Little Finger was screwed when he was a child. If Sansa (or someone) didn’t kill him, he’ll be a player the rest of his life.
      – Varys was screwed when he was a child. It’s the Master Player. If or someone didn’t kill him, he’ll be a player the rest of his life.

      They invented Gilly’s attempted rape, Meera’s attempted rape, Arya’s attempted rape, Cersei’s consexual rape changed into rape, Sansa’s plot changed into rape and Osha’s seducing Theon/Theon molesting her. And sexposition and sexual deaths. Lack of originality.

      Not sure about the revenge. They messed up Tysha’s thing, and Shae’s death was only Tyrion’s fault… Jon didn’t kill Olly in revenge for Ygritte’s death. And there’s no more lovers’ revenge, I think (Cat wanted her daughters back, too).
      Theon was punished by destroying Winterfell. Cersei (books and show) was punished by having sex being a widow, the trial by combat is because she didn’t admit murder Robert.

      – Why can Gilly have sex in an equality moment (like the books), with Sam in a situation he’s not being coerced and in a scene that is not “sex as a reward” vibes?
      – Meryn Trant didn’t need to be a paedo to be killed. In a scene he spends more time hitting girs with a stick and full close ups than Arya actually killing him. And creates horrible comparisons between Sansa’s rape (she didn’t do anything) and Arya (she defend herself).
      – Again, the death of Shireen was pointless. If Stannis won the battle, then, what? He’s heirless and that creates another problem of sucession (which is the cause of the war). Plus, he lost anyway.
      – Melisandre has realised her error, after having Jon Snow touching her boobs for a long time. Her magic is gone.
      – Karsi was supposed to be a man killed by zombie children. They changed her gender on purpose because it seems a dude can’t be a father and be scared of zombie children. And she died powerless, when the people surrounding her were still fighting. She can die fighting like the others (which I assume they’re also fathers and mothers) but nooo. That’s insulting.
      – Selyse motherhood was used to redeem her character. She was a HORRIBLE mother. But since mothers have to be good, she was good too. Comparison with Stannis, the wolf dad turned suddenly into a stone. Again, after 4 season telling us she sucks at parenting and he rules.
      – Olenna had again this motherhood rule.

      PS: I enjoy to debate with you. Fan of the idea your blog

      I’m not quite sure of the problem or where you were going with some of these mentions, and I’m certainly not doing this for debate purposes, but to show you the other side so to speak.
      Davos – Umm, yes. So he has had both adversity and triumphs. A typical supporting character.
      Jon – You could draw parallels to lots of characters in other medieval/fantasy stories, both male and female, with these traits and histories, so I’m not sure what your point is here. If he is to be a hero, then umm, yay….right? Doesn’t mean he is the only one.
      Sam – had sex, so what. Broke his vow…yeah but he’s not the only one. There won’t be a Night’s Watch at the end of the series anyway. He love Gilly. Gilly loves him. He’s going to face his horrible father soon. That won’t be easy. Hope he does become a Maester. I’m sure they will still need them when this is over. Again, yay.
      Tyrion – I hope he doesn’t get killed. He’s an under-dog. Things can go well for him and then they can go to shit somehow overnight, as it has been with him his entire life. No one knows for sure about the three heads of the dragon. I’ve read/and watched MULTIPLE theories. So, I guess we’ll see where this goes.
      Jaime – Hmm…well by the look of helplessness on his face when Joffrey died, and the fact that you could actually watch his heart being broken when Marcella was dying in his arms, not to mention his expression when she said she knew he was her real father and was glad….kinda looks like love. But hey, maybe I was watching a different show than you were. Either way, he should be in for a hell of a ride between the fallout of that with the Martells, finding out about Cersei’s shaming, dealing with her grief about Marcella, Kings Landing seemingly going to shit. And yet somehow it seems to be that he will end up in the Riverlands this season so there’s a transition that’s going to happen somewhere. He’s going to be a busy guy.
      Bronn – Yep, so what. As long as he still delivers the best one-liners in the show and defends the people he’s with. Who knows.
      Ignoring Podrick and Tommen – Insignificant at this point.
      Theon – has emotional scars and issues to deal with, and maybe recover from to an extend. Can never have sex and father kids. About to have lots of family issues. He’s not out of the woods by any means.
      Still not sure what the problem is with LF and Varys is. Great characters on opposite sides of the coin. Great dynamic.

      FYI – Let me fill you in on the actual fact that the books have 4 times as many rape instances than there have been in the show. D&D didn’t write the books.
      – Gilly was being kept in a castle absolutely full of horny men who haven’t had sex in ages, some of them being actual rapists. So it would have been more shocking if she had left the damn place without a rape attempt on her! And again, she was grateful to Sam. Sam was hurt. She loves him. “Let me try and make you feel better.” And BAM, Sam’s not a virgin, and she finally got to be with a man that wasn’t her father. Probably the best sex she’s ever had!
      – Yes, Bran’s group was captured, Meera was the pretty young girl, the sole girl in the group and again, medieval times: bad guys + pretty girl usually = rape.
      – Arya chose put herself in the position as an assassin so she could kill Trant. This storyline was to show an even sicker side of Trant and perhaps to highlight another thing that was an issue in medieval times (as well as today), and to give Arya the opportunity to scratch him off her list. She was the victor, not the victim.
      – The death of the only child of Stannis’ wasn’t pointless at the time in the storyline. Melisandre said she needed the royal blood, still thinking Stannis was the Azor Ahai. And the fact that he risked everything because of his belief in that as well is the whole point of that storyline. Whether you agree with the methods or not, these were the reasons it was done. And for us the viewers, we were supposed to be like “oh man….all of it was really for nothing!”
      – Melisandre got naked, took Jon’s hand and guided it up her body to her breast. She chooses men with kings blood and has seen things in the fire about Jon. And she has said her magic is the strongest it has ever been when she is at the wall. She senses power in him, power in his wolf and so on. She wants to see what kind of power would surface if she got with Jon. There is still a lot to play out between her and him, and obviously with him dead, it’s going to be all up to her now. So again, I’m not sure of your point or problem with this plot line.
      – Karsi was a strong ass woman who yeah, I would have liked to see live. She had a poignant scene with her kids, and said those dreaded words, “I’m right behind you”. This shows us her strength as a mother trying to give them hope when she knew there was a good chance she was going to die. It was because of her being a mother that she couldn’t find it in herself to kill even the zombie children. She knew she was outnumbered. So she let herself go, which was brave and probably the quickest death compared to her trying to fight it. It was a great insert of a female character everyone liked and everyone could grieve after she had gone, just like many of the men we have grieved.
      – I have no idea what you are getting at with Selyse. So, you are mad that she was a bad mother, but then you are also mad that they tried to give her a chance to see the error of her ways and ‘redeem’ herself? And you are mad that they did the reverse with Stannis, making him look like he was an ok dad, and then he let his daughter be killed? Are you just an angry person in general because none of that makes sense.
      – And Olenna….again, I don’t see what the problem is here. We have an strong and powerful elderly woman trying to protect her family annnnnd…..this is a bad thing?

      This is my last response on the issue because I feel we’ve bombarded this thread long enough. My observation is that you see things buried within the series that aren’t there, and subsequently miss out on the real important things. I hope you decide to de-stress yourself by either not watching a show that you really don’t seem to be enjoying anyway, and/or find a non-fiction cause to help real women who are being victimized and brutalized in real life every day. You are certainly passionate about your convictions and I’m sure there are organizations that would love to have someone as passionate about their causes as you are. But this really isn’t the place for it, nor is the fictional subject matter that this site is based on.
      Best wishes.

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    202. SlayerNina:
      MeeraReed,

      They could have erased the SS (tertiary flat at the moment characters) and give all their scenes to Arianne. And erase the two fights, that didn’t really add anything.

      Given the timming, Jaime and Bronn going to Dorne happened after we had the first scenes of Dorne (Doran and Areo, Doran-Areo-Ellaria and Ellaria and the SS, I think), so their presence there didn’t serve as and introduction…

      Arianne is the one who sexually manipulates Oakheart and coerces him to assist in the plan which results in his death and Myrcella’s disfigurement, right? And who is waiting for him in her bedroom completely naked as one of her chapters?

      Irony.

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    203. SlayerNina: They could have erased the SS (tertiary flat at the moment characters) and give all their scenes to Arianne. And erase the two fights, that didn’t really add anything.

      Why? Book!Arianne was her own protagonist (or an attempt at being one), not a supporting character like the SS were. However, Arianne’s story is identical to Cersei’s, and it was important to provide Jaime with plot that will amount to something next year for his story.

      So, the SS remain what they were (supporting characters for a main character’s story) and Arianne’s redundancy left her, well, made redundant!

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    204. SlayerNina: They could have erased the SS (tertiary flat at the moment characters) and give all their scenes to Arianne.

      But if they had included Arianne, how could they leave out all that time she spent fucking Oakheart, or making really stupid, as I saw them, plans all because she thinks daddy is cutting her out of her inheritance (c’mon, the heiress/heir who tries to get back at their parent(s) ’cause they think they’re trying to cut them out of their inheritance???)…oooo, and don’t forget her nipples.

      With all your cries of “gratuitous this” and “nudity that,” you’re arguing for Arianne?

      Wow.

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    205. Dame Pasty: So in all fairness, as you said, it’s not just the women who suffer from the patriarchy–many of the men do too.

      Tyrion makes a comment about bastards, dwarves and cripples as broken things in the first book/season. You can add women to the list in Westeros. And that’s key because of one thing: every one of the main characters in this series is a woman, a bastard, a dwarf or physically marred in some way (legless, handless, cockless, fingerless and muscle:bodyfat ratioless). All of the “whole” characters (i.e., unbroken, properly born males of normal or greater stature) are supporting characters that cause issues for these characters. If you are not “broken” in some way in the eyes of the patriarchy, then GRRM is not interested in telling a story with your character!

      (Ned was the one exception: but he soon wound up headless; does that count?)

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    206. Nymeria Warrior Queen: But if they had included Arianne, how could they leave out all that time she spent fucking Oakheart, or making really stupid, as I saw them, plans all because she thinks daddy is cutting her out of her inheritance (c’mon, the heiress/heir who tries to get back at their parent(s) ’cause they think they’re trying to cut them out of their inheritance???)

      This is why I find it bizarre that some people call Arianne a “feminist” character. In many ways, she is an anti-feminist character. OK, so she’s sexually liberated: that is fine. But for all of her worrying that she is being cut-out of her inheritance, all she does is demonstrate that Doran actually would have been wise to do so! (I agree with you completely: her plans were incredibly naive and lacking any sense of either tactics or strategy.)

      Now, an actually feminist Arianne who was being cutout because she was a woman in favor of a less competent brother and who actually could “kill the pretty princess and become the Éminence Gris Queen” might have been interesting!

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    207. chameleon:

      Oy, still getting the hang of the new website without edit, my bad. I meant to say:

      I’ve really enjoyed the debate on both sides, too. I think NinaSlayer has some great points and certainly doesn’t deserve the vitriol hurled at them, no matter how passionate the expression. Can’t everyone just play nice?

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    208. I really wanted Ian McShane to be Marwyn but agree that he would totally nail the speech as Elder Brother/Septon Maribald. And given that it’s one of the best speeches in the whole series, and D&D allotted an inordinate amount of time to that stupid beetles speech with Tyrion and Oberyn, I would hope that they can give 3 freaking minutes to a great speech with a great actor who will bring it home. Those are the moments that I love most from the series, not just the awesomeness of battles like Hardhome!

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    209. Wimsey: This is why I find it bizarre that some people call Arianne a “feminist” character.In many ways, she is an anti-feminist character.OK, so she’s sexually liberated: that is fine.But for all of her worrying that she is being cut-out of her inheritance, all she does is demonstrate that Doran actually would have been wise to do so!(I agree with you completely: her plans were incredibly naive and lacking any sense of either tactics or strategy.)

      Now, an actually feminist Arianne who was being cutout because she was a woman in favor of a less competent brother and who actually could “kill the pretty princess and become the Éminence Gris Queen” might have been interesting!

      I think the catfigths for power are enough with Cersei and Margaery…

      However, I think Arianne had a good a reason to act like she did (naïve, foolish and stupid, ok)… The fragment of letter she read was about changing heirs. And somewhow, she’s right in the end: if the plan had succeded, even she’s the heiress of Dorne, she has to bowed to Quentyn (the less competent brother and younger than her), since he’s become Daenery’s consort. Dorne is like a consolation prize when you can have the Iron Throne and dragons (Quentyn can ride one, if he’s on one at Dany’s back).

      Also I blame Doran’s parenting a bit, though.

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    210. Pigeon: Arianne is the one who sexually manipulates Oakheart and coerces him to assist in the plan which results in his death and Myrcella’s disfigurement, right? And who is waiting for him in her bedroom completely naked as one of her chapters?

      Irony.

      I prefer Arianne’s using her tits to manipulate someone who can help her to crown a princess, than Show!Tyene who uses her tits to arouse poisoned Bronn and then… left him alive because he said she’s pretty and sings well? That’s the definition of “gratuitous”. If she had used Bronn to kill Myrcella, we can talk about manipulation. Now, she’s the bad pussy he’ll need when he’s bored of his new castle and better wife.

      And don’t use the “power card”, she survives the fight and she’s the bastard of Oberyn Martell, she had already more power than him.

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    211. Wimsey,

      Tyrion is not a good exemple of this. He’s one of the most problematic with women.

      He met the clans in KL, reported rapists and didn’t punished the. He has prostitutes and doesn’t give a f*ck about what happened them, since they’re part of his property. He’s angry at Shae because the sex worker he paid didn’t love him. He’s angry at Sansa because his child bride didn’t love him. He’s angry with everybody at Joffrey’s wedding because the other have loving women and he didn’t. He threatened with rape Cersei and Illyrio’s workers. He raped the prostitute of Volantis (who curiously look a bit like Sansa, ginger and dead-looking eyes) and he thinks Penny’s stupid.

      Maybe he’s good with bastards, cripples and broken things, as long they worship his company.

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    212. SlayerNina,

      We got it, could you please stop now? You’re going in the extreme now, 1-3 post on this is more then enough, you are writing entire Esseys, trying to force you opinion on other people.

      You simply see a thing most of us don’t, and never will no metter how much you write.

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    213. SciFiFantasyGirl,

      Ok, I’ll left here. I was happy to find some Fantasy that has not the same clichés about women as always and they are not the supporting characters of the male plots. This is why I’m piss off with the show, how they tried to accomodate this again to the clichés. I’m not gonna watch it anymore, anyway.

      Can you recommend me something of interesting sci-fi/fantasy books or shows? (Not about “unlikely hero not like the others because he’s tiny and clever than the other boys surrounding him” or “girl not like the other girls”, I have read many of these. Or if they are, something more elaborate).

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    214. mau:
      Grandmaester Flash,

      She reads Tumblr. I see no point in discussions.

      Tumblr prove their point. You didn’t except tell me “just shut up”.

      Mihnea:
      SlayerNina,

      We got it, could you please stop now? You’re going in the extreme now, 1-3 post on this is more then enough, you are writing entire Esseys, trying to force you opinion on other people.

      You simply see a thing most of us don’t, and never will no metter how much you write.

      Please, if you don’t like my “essays”, don’t read me.

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    215. SciFiFantasyGirl,

      I’m complaining about how the show creates rape to characters not raped, and scenes in brothels never happened, and change scenes in other places to be occurred in brothels. If your show is known by things like “sexposition” and the “boobs quota per episode”, you’re doing something wrong.

      But ok.

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    216. SlayerNina,

      I wacthed the Walking Dead, I disliked the direction it went. But i’m not going to WD FAN-SITES to remind people how much I dislike it.

      And your off-topic: this is about McShane casting info,..etc. Not how the writers hate women, not about Arrianne, or the SS or any other feminist bullshit.

      But we do have a forum, where anyone can create any thread he/she want, about any topic. Go there, create a thread, and if people want to start a disscussion, about ”Women being mistreated in the show” they can freely go, on their OWN accord. But what you do is derail all thread you post in, with Sansa, Dorne…etc.

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    217. SlayerNina,

      SlayerNina:
      SciFiFantasyGirl,

      I’m complaining about how the show creates rape to characters not raped, and scenes in brothels never happened, and change scenes in other places to be occurred in brothels.

      So your not bothered by women geting raped, mistreated? Your just bothered that they did it to someone you liked? Someone else then the books? OK I understand you now.

      There’s not much equallity here, if you pretend you want equal representetion. Then you want it for ALL. You need to be just as outraged about Jayne being raped, by dogs, as you are about Sansa’s rape.

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    218. Another thread, another pointless discussion in which SlayerNina enrages many with her non-sensical points, unfair readings and ridiculously overblown rhetoric. Basically an embodiment of all the worst elements of the tumblr fandom, rolled into one. But I suppose there can never be enough fronts in the war against those evil misogynists, D&D.

      I was disappointed with the lack of movement on the Tyrell front last year, so I hope to see Olenna really moving this time. Full on war with the Lannisters would be nice.

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    219. SlayerNina: Tyrion is not a good exemple of this. He’s one of the most problematic with women.

      To the contrary: Tyrion is an excellent example of how all of the protagonists are “broken” in some way. None of the rest of your post is relevant to the fact that Tyrion is a protagonist and that all of the protagonists are “broken” people in the eyes of Westerosi patriarchy.

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    220. Wimsey,

      Actually, Tyrion is an exemple about he’s doing what is expected for him. He’s the bookish half-man, he has to have sex to reassure his masculinity. When he didn’t, he’s ashamed for it, like Sam.

      Tywin was pissed off because he used whores publicy, not because he had sex or the possibility of fathering bastards. When he was married to Sansa (aka “the right girl enough for you”) he pushed him to consumate. Tywin was dissapointed with Jaime joins the RG because he was the expected heir of Casterly Rock. Tywin tried to marry again Cersei and bear sons to shut up the incest rumours but also, because widows own their sexuality in Westeros, like Myranda Royce, because they’re not “maidens” or “wifes” anymore.

      Catelyn was pissed off not because Robb had sex, but because she married said girl thus ruining Frey’s alliance.

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    221. Mihnea,

      I’m bothered with women getting raped, real or fictionally. I’m bothered when it happens to characters I don’t like too.

      Martin make the rape counts for something. HBO make the rape when they’re out of ideas or to add more angst to an already angst-plot. I’m still waiting a moment in which male characters -who is not Theon- are threatened with rape.

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    222. SlayerNina,

      SlayerNina:
      Mihnea,

      Martin make the rape counts for something. HBO make the rape when they’re out of ideas or to add more angst to an already angst-plot.

      Go read the books again.

      And this is where our disscussion ends. Please ignore me from now on, I will do the same with you.

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    223. SlayerNina: I don’t remenber the Sopranos known by “Dragons and tits” or “Porn for nerds” XD

      No, it was Snuffs and Tits (or Killings and Tits), and Thinking Man’s Porn.

      Ultimately, I think that I can summarize the problem very simply. What you want is fantasy: some idealized world in which there are good people who are consistently good based on your criteria for “good” (which might or might not agree with the criteria for “good” that other people have).

      GRRM, B&W, etc., are not interested in fantasy for the sake of fantasy. Tolkien did the one and only decent tale of this type already. What M,B&W are doing is much more like science fiction: what happens when you introduce realistic people to (literally) unreal parameters that are analogous to real-world ones? That is, how do realistic individuals retain and resolve their personal humanities in the presence of things that they have not encountered before and that challenge their prior notions of who they are and what they should be?

      “Realistic” is the key. Humans are Hobbesian. We treat each other horribly. We fabricate gods to justify our horrible behavior as “moral” and “good,” and recast our horrible deeds as fairy tales to lionize the “virtues” of the miscreants that happened to be on the winning side. Every step of progress towards greater equality is fought tooth and nail, and basically labelled “evil.” And much of what you condemn about this world was considered day-to-day life in medieval Europe or Asia. Indeed, much of what you condemn about this world was day-to-day life in Europe and North America until very recently. (Mad Men was not making up this stuff.) This is the fodder from which the “I am/am not X” dilemmas arise in the SoI&F tales.

      Except for a few fantasy geeks, nobody is watching this series for the dragons or the White Walkers. Other shows with monsters typically get dismal ratings and are panned by critics. Except for a few people, nobody is watching for the sex: there are many more shows on cable that have much more and much more explicit sex that are watched by a tiny fraction of the Thrones audience. Except for a few people, nobody even is watching for the general plot: shows like White Queen and Marco Polo which have just as much plot (and often as much sex, violence and generally horrid behavior by some elite against the general majority) get yawns. Instead, the majority are watching this for what those other shows lack: characters; and it is their imperfections that make the characters interesting.

      In short, the problem seems to be that you are being Sansa: you want fairy tales to be true. But one of the themes of the overarching tale is exactly opposite to that: the fairy tales hold no truths, only propaganda. Real people are much, much more interesting than knights in shining armor, damsels in distress and villains twirling mustaches.

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    224. SlayerNina: He’s the bookish half-man, he has to have sex to reassure his masculinity.

      As a man, let me assure you: we do not seek sex to reassure our masculinities! We seek sex because, well: sex is very enjoyable the vast majority of the time. That and over a half billion years of eukaryotic evolution have left us well-programmed to do things that increase our chances of getting our genes into the next generation…..

      And, again: it has nothing to do with the fact that Tyrion, just like every other primary protagonist in the series, is “broken” in the eyes of the patriarchy.

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    225. SlayerNina:
      SciFiFantasyGirl,

      I’m complaining about how the show creates rape to characters not raped, and scenes in brothels never happened, and change scenes in other places to be occurred in brothels. If your show is known by things like “sexposition” and the “boobs quota per episode”, you’re doing something wrong.

      But ok.

      SlayerNina:
      SciFiFantasyGirl,

      I’m complaining about how the show creates rape to characters not raped, and scenes in brothels never happened, and change scenes in other places to be occurred in brothels. If your show is known by things like “sexposition” and the “boobs quota per episode”, you’re doing something wrong.

      But ok.

      Again, the books as it stands has 4 TIMES the number of rape instances than what the show has done.
      This show is an ADAPTATION from a very large and detailed series of books, which means that in order to bring it to a screen, changes needed to be made. Some of the changes that we are seeing could be due to an overall plot line that is going to differ from the books. GRRM said that changes that have been made would create a snowball effect, which means that by the end of the series we could be looking at a much different story, and outcome, than what GRRM may have in his books.
      There are lots of reasons certain changes had to be made.
      – budget restraints/constraints
      – time allotment, both for production and television air time
      – restrictions from the network
      – ideas that the network wants to see happen
      You also need to remember that ultimately, D&D are at the mercy of the network. They write their draft. HBO looks it over and gives their input on things they like and don’t like, and the process evolves from there. We all know that HBO likes to push boundaries. They are known for their rawness, grit, controversy and wide net of creative expression and they are very proud of it.
      The best thing to do in this situation is to do what GRRM himself has reiterated many times. Look at the show and the books as separate entities. That is what I’m doing as I’m reading the books. I’ve had to do it before with PJ’s adaptations of Tolkien’s work and I ended up loving both the books and movies by seeing it in that way.
      Just have patience and trust that whatever changes D&D and HBO have made should for the most part make sense by the end of the series, based on what THEY had set out to do. You’ll find you’ll be a lot more relaxed looking at it this way.

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    226. Wimsey,

      I didn’t like good vs evil. Part of my problem with The Lord of the Rings and similaires is that (though I enjoy when the “good” win). Villains are usually fare more interesting than heros because you can, at least, justify some of its actions.

      But you can’t deny GOT initially was Starks vs Lannisters and now is good vs evil, in which you can tell which characters are the good ones (even if they have some shades of grey. Just some) and the bad ones (evil-evil).

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    227. Young Dragon,

      In the books, they had the raped characters have a point of view, or at least, some voice over the matter. In the show, they don’t. They have the characters to show how evil an evil character is, or to be saved, or both.

      Plus, the show fandom usually go like: “she/he deserve it!” “Why he/she didn’t refuse or did something?” “it’s not rape! “or being rape apologists of somesort “historical accuracy!” “Martin has wrote worse things!” or the best “violence is violence! They’re fictional, get over it!”.

      Have you forgotten those memes featuring LF with photos of Sophie Turner or Maisie Williams two years ago like “now she’s non jailbait! When we’re gonna raped them/see them naked? Fap time!”

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    228. Wimsey,

      In Tyrion’s case, sex is also used as a way to get some positive attention. To forget that he’s a “halfman”. To have some sort of semblance of love brought into his life (even if manufactured and paid for) that he has longed for and never gotten from his father or his siblings. Jaime’s fine with him, but it’s far from a deep bond of brotherly love, at least in respect to the show.
      Just my two coppers worth 😉

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    229. SlayerNina:
      Young Dragon,

      In the books, they had the raped characters have a point of view, or at least, some voice over the matter. In the show, they don’t. They have the characters to show how evil an evil character is, or to be saved, or both.

      That’s not true. All the women the Mountain and his men raped had no point of view. Jeyne Poole had no point of view.

      SlayerNina:
      Young Dragon,

      Plus, the show fandom usually go like: “she/he deserve it!” “Why he/she didn’t refuse or did something?” “it’s not rape! “or being rape apologists of somesort “historical accuracy!” “Martin has wrote worse things!” or the best “violence is violence! They’re fictional, get over it!”.

      People can be really sick and disgusting. The opinions of viewers shouldn’t reflect the message that the show is trying to send.

      SlayerNina:
      Young Dragon,

      Have you forgotten those memes featuring LF with photos of Sophie Turner or Maisie Williams two years ago like “now she’s non jailbait! When we’re gonna raped them/see them naked? Fap time!”

      I haven’t heard of anything like that.

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    230. SlayerNina:
      Young Dragon,

      In the books, they had the raped characters have a point of view, or at least, some voice over the matter. In the show, they don’t. They have the characters to show how evil an evil character is, or to be saved, or both.

      Plus, the show fandom usually go like: “she/he deserve it!” “Why he/she didn’t refuse or did something?” “it’s not rape! “or being rape apologists of somesort “historical accuracy!” “Martin has wrote worse things!” or the best “violence is violence! They’re fictional, get over it!”.

      Have you forgotten those memes featuring LF with photos of Sophie Turner or Maisie Williams two years ago like “now she’s non jailbait! When we’re gonna raped them/see them naked? Fap time!”

      I disagree. The depiction of rape in the show yes, shows the sickness of the man doing it, but it’s actually more about the character being raped. How is she handling it? What does she do afterwards? Does she become weak and petrified? Does she give up? Does she fight back, or bide her time? Does the rape break her, or fuel a fire for revenge? There are SO many things to be learned about the character. It’s one scene is done to show, and put a character in a mental place where the implications will effect their storyline and move them forward.
      Don’t concern yourself with what the fandom or any other watchers think of it. It is of no consequence to whether you enjoy the storyline or not.
      And memes are memes. For good or bad they are generated by spectators, not the writers, producers or the network, so again, don’t concern yourself with them.

      There has been a thread started in the forums regarding Sansa’s depiction and depictions of other females of the show in general so I’m all done here and will provide my input there as I see fit.

      Sorry to have taken up so much space in the comments over this topic.

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    231. SciFiFantasyGirl:
      SlayerNina:
      Young Dragon,

      In the books, they had the raped characters have a point of view, or at least, some voice over the matter. In the show, they don’t. They have the characters to show how evil an evil character is, or to be saved, or both.

      Plus, the show fandom usually go like: “she/he deserve it!” “Why he/she didn’t refuse or did something?” “it’s not rape! “or being rape apologists of somesort “historical accuracy!” “Martin has wrote worse things!” or the best “violence is violence! They’re fictional, get over it!”.

      Have you forgotten those memes featuring LF with photos of Sophie Turner or Maisie Williams two years ago like “now she’s non jailbait! When we’re gonna raped them/see them naked? Fap time!”

      **************

      I disagree.The depiction of rape in the show yes, shows the sickness of the man doing it, but it’s actually more about the character being raped.How is she handling it? What does she do afterwards? Does she become weak and petrified?Does she give up?Does she fight back, or bide her time?Does the rape break her, or fuel a fire for revenge?There are SO many things to be learned about the character.It’s one scene is done to show, and put a character in a mental place where the implications will effect their storyline and move them forward.
      Don’t concern yourself with what the fandom or any other watchers think of it.It is of no consequence to whether you enjoy the storyline or not.
      And memes are memes.For good or bad they are generated by spectators, not the writers, producers or the network, so again, don’t concern yourself with them.

      There has been a thread started in the forums regarding Sansa’s depiction and depictions of other females of the show in general so I’m all done here and will provide my input there as I see fit.

      Sorry to have taken up so much space in the comments over this topic.

      Ugh, I’ve screwed up quote replies twice because of scrolling. Tried to fix it a bit here. Again, apologies.

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    232. SlayerNina: gree. The depiction of rape in the show yes, shows the sickness of the man doing it, but it’s actually more about the character being raped. How is she handling it? What does she do afterwards? Does she become weak and petrified? Does she give up? Does she fight back, or bide her time? Does the rape break her, or fuel a fire for revenge? There are SO many things to be learned about the character. It’s one scene is done to show, and put a character in a mental place where the implications will effect their storyline and move them forward.
      Don’t concern yourself with what the fandom or any other watchers think of it. It is of no consequence to whether you enjoy the storyline or not.
      And memes are memes. For good or bad they are generated by spectators, not the writers, producers or the network, so again, don’t concern yoursel

      No, rape is handled far worse in the books: The woman who are raped in the books are there only to develop a villain/man (no the words aren’t interchangeable but I need to include the Reek situation) – the women who is raped is worth nothing from a storytelling POV which is really misogynistic. The only women who tell stories of their own rapes are villains (Cersei and Mirri Maz Duur) and the most horrifying examples are nothing short of plot devices (Elia Martell, Jeyne Pool and the inkeapers daughter who was assaulted by the Mountain and his men).

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    233. SciFiFantasyGirl,

      Agree, this post is about season 6.

      SlayerNina,

      Some folks need to stop hijacking these to push their own agenda. Please use the blog created for this subject matter.
      I don’t care for scrolling through the same rhetoric over and over again.
      These are fictional characters. Season 5 has come and gone. Why STILL dwell on it?
      Get over it and move on with your life.

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    234. SlayerNina: But you can’t deny GOT initially was Starks vs Lannisters and now is good vs evil, in which you can tell which characters are the good ones (even if they have some shades of grey. Just some) and the bad ones (evil-evil).

      I can most emphatically deny that. It never was Starks vs. Lannisters: it was and still is (when GRRM does not digress!) about people working out whether they can be both X and Y at the same time on a variety of issues. And it is not now nor has it ever been about “good” vs. “evil.” There is no “good” in this universe nor is there any “evil”: there are just different sides with different agendas. The White Walkers are not evil (or good). R’hllor is not evil (or good). The Lannisters are not evil (or good). The Starks are not evil (or good). Warging is not evil (or good). Dragons are not evil (or good). Direwolves are not evil (or good). Horses are not evil (or good). The cats are… ok, the cats are evil, but in that wonderfully feline way of being evil. Otherwise, it is just people or things: this is not a morality play about what sort of behavior is rewarded by gods, after all.

      SlayerNina: Yeah, because you’d never ear a boy refusing to f*ck or take advantage and his friends go “gaaaaaay!”

      Never? Probably not: but then it’s usually because of insecurity, rather than security. Insecure men say “no” to sex because they are too hung up on embarrassing themselves or sinning or whatever. Indeed, insecure men don’t even get to say “no” very often: their insecurity usually puts them in a place where they just don’t do anything. (Jon’s insecurities stemming from being a bastard has this effect.)

      And, of course, some men are very particular about their tastes in women, or at least go through phases where they are. (In my youth, I only dated very slim women: every now and then when I stumble across a picture of one of them, it amazes me that I found such skinny creatures attractive: but I certainly did back then!)

      Now, rarely? Rarely would be a good word here. But you would need a lot more than “Rarely” to support whatever it is you are reading into the characters!

      And none of this is germane to whether GRRM’s protagonists are all “broken” in the eyes of the patriarchy.

      SciFiFantasyGirl: In Tyrion’s case, sex is also used as a way to get some positive attention. To forget that he’s a “halfman”.

      Sure: and in nearly every other male’s case, too! (I will not speak for women because I am not one.) That’s part of what makes sex enjoyable (again, at least for men: I will not speak for women on this!). And, hey, the fact that you forget life’s troubles is a positive aspect of anything that makes you forget life’s troubles.

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    235. SlayerNina:
      Mihnea,

      I’m bothered with women getting raped, real or fictionally. I’m bothered when it happens to characters I don’t like too.

      Martin make the rape counts for something. HBO make the rape when they’re out of ideas or to add more angst to an already angst-plot. I’m still waiting a moment in which male characters -who is not Theon- are threatened with rape.

      I get your point, I really do, but you seem to misunderstand the concept of being a feminist, what equal right are and the difference between hating women and portraying victimized women.

      To show a rape, violence in the manner that D&D (and GGRM) does is to show enlighten a real world problem. The fact that you are upset over this is the point itself.

      I also think that a lot of scenes in GoT are disturbing, it makes me feel even more repulsed to rape than before. Maybe it will enlighten the debate (like in this case) and makes us all hate rape/violence/etc even more? Makes us affect others to do the same?

      Maybe it’s because you’re a woman, but can’t you see how the men in the series are portrayed?

      They are terrible men all of them (except Jon..but he still kills people) and it makes people like you hate men and think that the women are victims? Think again. A man that rapes are, and will always be, a psychopath. They are all victims of norms of the society, war, violence and so on. It doesn’t excuse rape, but it’s a consequence of the environment they grew up in, the people/father/mothers/siblings/friends they learned from. It is just like today, isn’t it?

      To portray anything else would be a lie, just for people like you to feel better. But it won’t enlighten the real problem, which isn’t the gender of men, but the society we have lived in the past couple of thousand years.

      I feel like i drifted away from my point and missed half of what i intended to write, but i get so pissed at women undermining the real challange we have with equal rights between women and men as well as “races”.

      Do you complain over the black people of the series? Those we met have either been slaves, slavers, pirates or in rare cases bodyguards (like Aero Hotah). Where is our protagonist black guy? Can’t hear you complain over that????

      Sorry folks for the ranting…

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    236. Pia was raped. And then you show her what happenned from Jaime’s POV. She has some relevance, even is to have Jaime’s square happy and for comparisons about what he had been.

      Jeyne Poole was despicted on Theon’s POV and her crying is one of the reasons the northern lords want a rebellion. After the escape, you still can see her trauma. She’s not a non-entity forgetable like the inkeepers’ daughter.

      Don’t having a POV that doesn’t mean it doesn’t affect the rest of the characters or plots. We didn’t have Cersei’s POV until the 4th book, Jaime’s until 3rd, Sam’s until 5th (I think), and some characters like Littlefinger, Varys, Robb or even the Hound have some kind impact even they’re not POVS.

      But ok, let’s come back to the issue. What battle do you think is?

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    237. Mack,

      I prefer to be a pirate or a warrior than a “woman”.

      The shows goes on only physical streght to develop characters or make them strong. No sword-no strength. Jon didn’t deal with the wildings and his brothers at the Wall, he fighted the Others. Sam brags about the time he killed an Other instead being “bookish”. Even Tyrion sold himself to the slave master by hitting a guy to the ground, not using his wits and save Missandei of a Son of Harpy. Myranda showed her strength using an arrow and a bow. Arya killed Meryn. Brienne killed Stannis. Dany has three atomic bombs to reasure her power. And Margaery, Cersei and Sansa became completly powerless. Even LF reassures his strength by the possibility of having an army at the Vale.

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    238. A battle in the snow? well pretty sure its in the north and maybe a certain “dead” charactar will rally hes 2nd half of the army that supposedly abandoned him and kick some butt with new northern allies (and a Snow that returns).

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    239. SlayerNina:
      Mack,

      I prefer to be a pirate or a warrior than a “woman”.

      The shows goes on only physical streght to develop characters or make them strong. No sword-no strength. Jon didn’t deal with the wildings and his brothers at the Wall, he fighted the Others. Sam brags about the time he killed an Other instead being “bookish”. Even Tyrion sold himself to the slave master by hitting a guy to the ground, not using his wits and save Missandei of a Son of Harpy. Myranda showed her strength using an arrow and a bow. Arya killed Meryn. Brienne killed Stannis. Dany has three atomic bombs to reasure her power. And Margaery, Cersei and Sansa became completly powerless. Even LF reassures his strength by the possibility of having an army at the Vale.

      Please…let’s be realistic in this unrealistic show. People make choises, sometimes right, sometimes wrong. We are watching the consequenses of those choises. We may not like them, but that is the interesting part. You wrote in another post that you don’t want clichés, hypocratic?

      And you are totalt wrong that physical strength is what make charcters develope. Please rewatch and think again….

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    240. SlayerNina,

      There is no one on this planet who has the EXACT same opinions- especially when those opinions are based upon a fictional world. It seems you might be looking for something that doesn’t exist – or if it does, it’s a very rare find. As many here seem to be clear as to what your view on the series is, I don’t see how trying to change the opinion of others is a productive use of your time – especially since most of the recent posts relate to next season- the season you’re not going to watch. Therefore I have come up with a great suggestion- you are a creative writer — why not create a series of your own? It can have all the things you think are either lacking, poorly thought out, and incorrect with the world GRRM has created. (As well as the world D&D have interpreted- with the help of GRRM.)

      That would be a better use of your time, and it wouldn’t get people angry with you for trying to shove your opinion down their throats. And when your series becomes successful, then you will have the opportunity to change minds. I don’t say this with malice, but I know the majority of the people who come here are here to discuss the future of the series. They are not here to be attacked or to read your thoughts on women’s rights (again).

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    241. Is it over yet?
      I couldn’t possibly read all that.
      I used to read alt.feminism way back in the late 1990s, which was full of cynical, bitter anti-feminists whining about feminism. They totally changed my opinion about many issues.
      Can anybody really care that much about a work of fiction? Really? Please!
      I know tumblr is full of wannabe writers and SJWs fiercely moaning about the evil adults wot abuse and oppress them. You can’t attempt to argue or you’re invading their ‘safe space’.
      As my dad always said ‘when you’re 18 you know everything’.
      Maybe one day I’ll read these comments, but I’m really not that interested in a thesis on ‘Misogyny in Game of Thrones/ASOIAF’ whatever it is.
      Try redirecting your ire where it might actually be useful and help real people. This is a waste of time IMHO. Unless it’s for your women’s studies course.

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    242. Young Dragon: That’s not true. All the women the Mountain and his men raped had no point of view. Jeyne Poole had no point of view.

      People can be really sick and disgusting. The opinions of viewers shouldn’t reflect the message that the show is trying to send.

      I haven’t heard of anything like that.

      That’s because you’re not a child/teenager using tumblr. Teenage boys are the worst when it comes to sexism. Probably they are just trying to impress their friends and see women as sex objects due to watching inordinate amounts of porn. Hopefully they grow up without too much lasting damage, but I do think girls unfortunately need to be given advice on how to handle their dreadful behavior, such as sending dick pics and demanding nude pics. So glad I didn’t have to deal with that shit when I was a teenager. They have zero respect.

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    243. Shane snow:
      the Great Other is the god of the cold and dark, and in Norse Mythology, there is a guy named Hod/Hodur/Hoder that is the god of all things cold and dark.

      Hod – Baldur’s brother? The blind god? Interesting theory, but not sure it applies here – what makes you think that’s what he’d be referring to?

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    244. If Benjen did this to Hodor, there goes BENJENHYPE out the window.
      But more importantly what happened to the scene described around the dinner table with Ian and the actors cast as Tarleys who are eating when Sam and Gilly come into the room at the Tarly keep?

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    245. Vegoia,

      Ian McShane is not Randyll Tarly.

      But the scenes with the Tarlys and Sam and Gilly are being filmed right now in Santa Florentina Castle, which will be Horn Hill. They’ve been filming since yesterday I think, and they’ll be done tomorrow. Nothing has leaked as of yet.

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    246. Well……this topic took a strange turn. People need to learn how to let shit go. Good lord, there’s a big world out there, go out and live in it.

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