More characters being cast for Game of Thrones Season 6!

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It hasn’t even been a week since season 5 ended, and there is already more casting news about Game of Thrones season 6.

A reliable source has informed us of a series of castings underway at the moment. Most interestingly, the showrunners are specifically looking for either Irish or Northern Irish residents to fill these roles.

All we have are character names and titles at the moment, but we will update this information as soon as we can. Some of these names give an inkling as to where the characters will be based, and which members of the main cast they may be interacting with. The names/titles are as follows:

UPDATE: We now have the role descriptions, with a couple character additions!

Qhogo and Akrat: They’re seeking mixed ethnicity or other non-white actors for the roles. The successful young warriors need to be tall, confident, with swagger and linguistic bravado. It’s noted that the actors will have to speak in a fictional language. I think it’s safe to say that these are Dothraki.

Bower: He is a powerless servant, numb to the horror he serves. He’s filming around one of the days that below “outlaw band” members are so he may be connected to them. He is required to have a Northern or Midland English accent and appears in one episode.

Lachlan:  He’s the big leader of a group of renegades who have turned on the land that they swore to protect. They’re now extorting the poor and vulnerable.  He appears in 2 episodes in season 6.

Flynn: He’s part of an outlaw band. The group is using religion to justify terrorizing and extorting what they need from the people of the countryside. He appears in 2 episodes in season 6. He appears to be part of Lachlan’s band.

Japeth: Another member of the outlaw band is this lieutenant. He’s a “rough-and-ready type” with a strong physical presence, also appearing two episodes.

Legendary Fighter:  A man in his thirties or forties who is a great swordsman and a paragon of knighthood. He carries a hugely famous sword on his back.  The show is seeking a very impressive swordsman for the role- the best in Europe, for a week of filming fight scenes for a season 6 role. His ethnicity/race isn’t specified, unlike many other roles.

Lord of Noble Northern House: (Casting age anywhere between 25-50) The lord is a savage warrior, and he rules a distinguished house in the very far North, and the role is said to be an impactful one. He’s described as a massive bear of a man with a beard and temper to match, and hatred that run deep, and he can be violent. The show’s looking for someone with a powerful physique who can tower over other cast members, a Northern English Accent and specifies he has to be at least 180 cm tall. The role will be on 2 episodes.

Lord of Northern Stronghold: The show’s looking for an actor in his late thirties or forties to play another lord, one that’s ruthless and calculating. The frightening lord rules a vassal household with a castle stronghold. He’ll be in 3 episodes this year, with 20 days of filming this summer and fall.

Hunter: He’s a rough army officer on the hunt appearing in an action scene with main cast, in one episode.

Submissive Maester: The show’s casting a maester in his twenties- a timid young maester. He’s decent but has trouble standing up to others. He appears in one episode in season 6.

Green Recruit: A young man with one line and one day of filming in August.

Sympathiser 1, 2 & 3:  These are rough military types, with a day of filming.

Housemaid:  She’s the motherly nanny (with a tight whip) to a large household.
The show wants an actress between the ages of 45-65 with a Northern English Accent. She’ll be in 2 episodes.

Father: He’s tough and old, an alpha male patriarch. The show is looking for a man with a Northern English Accent. He appears in one episode and has 2 lines.

 

Cian: The specificity of requesting that the actors be residents of Ireland/Northern Ireland would seem to indicate that the majority of their filming may be in Northern Ireland. It also looks as though the North may be getting a strong focus next season, if these parts are anything to go by. In particular, the “Lord of Noble Northern House” sounds like a certain Umber might be being cast. And… I think it’s a pretty safe guess we’ll be seeing Arthur Dayne, too. What do you think?

615 responses

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    1. Direhound:
      Lord of Northern Stronghold…crossing fingers.

      I hope:

      I know about the promise … Maester Theomore, tell them! A thousand years before the Conquest, a promise was made, and oaths were sworn in the Wolf’s Den before the old gods and the new. When we were sore beset and friendless, hounded from our homes and in peril of our lives, the wolves took us in and nourished us and protected us against our enemies. The city is built upon the land they gave us. In return we swore that we should always be their men. Stark men!

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    2. davy:
      I think the two northern lords might be the lords Manderly and Glover, just a feeling.

      Hopefully submissive maester means Theomore and this will be confirmed..

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    3. I wish Legendary Fighter would equal Strong Belwas. Probably not, because it’s probably too late to add such an inconsequential character, but a man can dream.

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    4. Bergey:
      I wish Legendary Fighter would equal Strong Belwas. Probably not, because it’s probably too late to add such an inconsequential character, but a man can dream.

      Already been said he won’t be in.

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    5. Hoyti Von Totiy,

      Two Northern Lords? Could either of them be an Umber? Maybe the Greatjon gets recast?#ReturnoftheRickon #ReturnoftheOsha?

      Or/And is this #WeNeedHowlandReed?

      Would be thrilled with Frey Pies too though.

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    6. I wish d and d would stick to their guns and cut some of this fat.

      It would have been so easy just to have Sansa work with these lords last season but nooooooo woman locked in room abused so that awful male character can be “redeemed” is just so much more interesting that woman semi successfully navigating complex northern politics and saving her own damn self. #Stillbitter, #neveroverit.

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    7. Why are they looking specifically for Irish actors to fill Qhogo and Akrat? Those sound Essosi characters.

      Could some of these northern houses be where Rickon was sent with Osha? It’s time for him to reenter the story as a surviving Stark son.

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    8. I don’t remember any legendary fighter who is still alive in westeros, so maybe a flashback? Tower of joy?
      For me griff dont fit in the legendary fighter, and with no aegon i really think he’s cut.

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    9. Queenofthrones,

      They would have had to structure the entirety of season 5 differently if they incorporated the Northern Lords into Sansa’s storyline. The decision for the Sansa/Jeyne Pool swap was made back in season 2.

      It did regress Sansa as a character but it managed to capture the dread of the books and left Theon’s character arc more or less in tact with the book version.

      I believe D&D have stated that Theon is their favorite character so it makes sense why they did it.

      Hopefully Sansa improves in season 6

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    10. Question for the ages: what is the difference between being the lord of a Northern “stronghold” and lord of a Northern “noble house”?

      It’s well past time that the North consisted of more than Starks and the lords who betray the Starks, though, so hopefully this is a sign that Sansa might actually do something this season.

      Oneminutetomidknight: Hopefully submissive maester means Theomore and this will be confirmed..

      The “submissive maester” will be seen when Sam visits the BDSM section of the Oldtown brothel.

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    11. Sean C.:
      Question for the ages:what is the difference between being the lord of a Northern “stronghold” and lord of a Northern “noble house”?

      Two different characters named like that to confuse us.

      This is like the walking dead.. they got sick of the fanbase constantly hunting for casting calls so they give them different names.

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    12. Okay, I’ve updated the post with the role descriptions and there are couple more small roles added to the batch!

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    13. Queenofthrones: It would have been so easy just to have Sansa work with these lords last season but nooooooo woman locked in room abused so that awful male character can be “redeemed” is just so much more interesting that woman semi successfully navigating complex northern politics and saving her own damn self.

      Sansa successfully doing it right the first time after being so clueless and unthinking in the first four seasons would have been highly unrealistic. To do this in a way that the audience could accept, she has to be shown to try, fail and learn. Now, ideally, she would have started this in the 3rd or 4th season – after all, we’ve been watching other protagonists try, fail and learn since season 1 or 2 – but I think that a “learning” Sansa in Kings Landing would have introduced too many complications to a basic plot constructed with an unlearning Sansa in mind.

      What this does suggest is that perhaps it will be Sansa pursuing Rickon and Bran. The Northern Lords likely (and also quite probably) are the ones holding Rickon. (Is it the Umbers on the show?) I suppose that it could be Davos doing this: but Davos is a lesser lead.

      I must admit, Stannis’ death has falsified some of my predictions: I htought that we would have a situation where Rickon ends up in one camp (Stannis’), Sansa another, and Arya in a third. I suppose that this still could happen, but I am not sure how.

      MissVanity: Sympathizer 1&2- could we be seeing Kingsmoot? One of them could be supporting Yara and the other Euron.

      No, that would just be a chorus probably. At any rate, the Kingsmoot is unnecessary: that is only useful if you are making Asha/Yara a lead character (as the book attempted to do) so that you can see her try to kill the princess and let the queen be born, and then fail miserably. However, that was last year’s story, and Cersei made that contribution all by herself. Euron can just turn up: bad-ass pirate with big fleet is all the explanation that is necessary!

      McQ-Ball: He has a good part in DoD

      ? He has one or two lines in the epilogue promising to kill a pretender, if I recall. Otherwise, has he even been in the books? (Other than being mentioned by Sam, of course.)

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    14. Sean C.:
      Question for the ages:what is the difference between being the lord of a Northern “stronghold” and lord of a Northern “noble house”?

      Maybe it means that the lord of a noble house won’t be in his stronghold (e.g. Manderly in Winterfell), while the lord of a strongold is at home (Manderly in White Harbor).

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    15. Sean C.,

      I think the distinction is that the first one is more of a “military” type ( think Greatjon/ Randyl) and the latter is a “lordly” type ( think Mace/ Doran).

      Hopefully the Lord of the noble house is Manderly and we will get the pies that were promised.
      This casting news does not bode well for Clive Mantle’s return 🙁

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    16. Seems to be that Arthur Dayne and an Umber are confirmed! Note how they don’t seem to be looking for an actor for Arthur Dayne, but the “best swordsman in Europe”. ToJ!!!

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    17. Turncloak:
      HOLY SHIT I CALLED IT! Arthur Dayne FUCKING CONFIRMED!

      Holy shit.

      Who’s the band of Outlaws? BWB perhaps? The religion bit is what makes me think of the BWB.

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    18. Turncloak,

      D&D stated that SANSA ” is a character that we care about almost more than anyone else” and the biggest proof is her arc this season
      Just because you or some other people misunderstood this particular storyline doesn’t mean it was misstep or regress (and they sacrificed her agency for redeeming theon!? my goodness pure nonsense) she’s my top favorite character by far ( and i’m a boy) and i can’t be enough thankful for her great storyline this year and i’m sure they’ll deliver a BRILLIANT arc for sansa next season

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    19. Wimsey: Sansa successfully doing it right the first time after being so clueless and unthinking in the first four seasons would have been highly unrealistic.To do this in a way that the audience could accept, she has to be shown to try, fail and learn.

      What did Sansa try or learn in Winterfell, pray tell? She never once attempted any sort of politicking or manipulation.

      Moreover, Sansa being in Winterfell in the first place was every bit as unrealistic, if not more so. The writers do not care about realism.

      Anyway, back to the casting announcements. I was going to say that the first Northern lord sounded like recast Greatjon, but the casting age of 25-50 says otherwise.

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    20. And now we come full circle… first the reports about Euron being cast, now it looks like some BWB guys. I’m thinking perhaps Brienne heads south into the Riverlands – could an undead leader be far behind? Just saying.

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    21. Lord of Northern Stronghold: The show’s looking for an actor in his late thirties or forties to play another lord, one that’s ruthless and calculating. The frightening lord rules a vassal household with a castle stronghold. He’ll be in 3 episodes this year, with 20 days of filming this summer and fall.

      A Karstark maybe?

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    22. Sue the Fury,

      They could be the Bloody Mummers, since they had a Septon with them.

      This is even more confirmation we will see Brienne back in the Riverlands after Septon Meribald casting.

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    23. “The lord is a savage warrior, and he rules a distinguished house in the very far North”

      Very far north… unlikely but I think they may merge White Harbor and Skagos.

      That way Davos takes a single trip to treat with Manderly and Rickon Stark.

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    24. Queenofthrones:
      I wish d and d would stick to their guns and cut some of this fat.

      It would have been so easy just to have Sansa work with these lords last season but nooooooo woman locked in room abused so that awful male character can be “redeemed” is just so much more interesting that woman semi successfully navigating complex northern politics and saving her own damn self.#Stillbitter, #neveroverit.

      If you want a show whose primary focus is strong female characters turning into stronger female characters, write it yourself. Pitch it. Make it. And we can all bask in its glory.

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    25. Sue the Fury,

      That’s what I thought, but then… Do they do much terrorisin’ of the populace in the books? Freys, Outlaws, and Warrior Maidens with fancy swords feel their ire, but I cannot recall them hurting the commoners. Mayhaps just going in a slightly different direction with them.

      Alternatively, could be a rowdy group of Sparrows/Poor brothers… Or some Queen’s men that escaped from the Battle/Slaughter of Winterfell, and the description is just slightly off, to throw us off (“turned on the land that they swore to protect” wouldn’t fit Queen’s men).

      It certainly sounds like the Brotherhood, though maybe that’s because it’s what we want it to be.

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    26. Urgh, they’re not recasting the GreatJon, are they? What is wrong with Clive Mantle, did the producers have some sort of fight with the guy? Avoidable recasts (if that’s the case) like this bug me >_<

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    27. First time i read the “legendary fighter with a famous sword” thats gotta be the sword of the morning! Zomg! Dawn = lightbringer?
      Also, one of the northern lords must be an Umber. Last Hearth was namedropped a couple of seasons ago as a possible refuge for Rickon. So,either the greatjon is recast or we get Mors or Whoresbane. They need a giant of a man, House Umber has a giant in its sigil.

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    28. I have a feeling that Stannis’s arc might have been cut short on purpose, because they might give some of that arc together with the Northern alliance against the Boltons to Jon next season. (That is if Jon actually comes back).
      It would be a bit frustrating if they give someone like Littlefinger a Northern alliance.

      I hope the Legendary Fighter is Ser Arthur Dane. Howland Reed would also be interesting to cast. Or basically any Northern Lords.

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    29. KrakenDaughter,

      The description doesn’t sound anything like the Bloody Mummers.

      I find it very difficult to see how Brienne goes back to the Riverlands at this point, given where she currently is.

      I honestly expected never to see the Tower of Joy on the show –at least, the fight part — because while it’s cool, it’s incidental to the actual important point there, Ned finding Lyanna and Jon.

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    30. So much North. I’m so happy! 🙂 Now just need one more casting call of a girl around 13-15, with blonde hair willing to dye it green, prone to epic speeches.

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    31. Brotherhood without Banners back in town

      So the story is returning to the Riverlands? Maybe the whole down with the Freys plot that those Westeros people think will be in tWoW will be in season 6

      also Rickon and Sansa BETTER get together in s6

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    32. HOLY MOTHER!

      #SerArthurDayne #SwordOfTheMorning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TOJ FLASHBACK BITCHES!!!!!

      D&D I think I love you!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Turncloak: une 19, 2015 at 9:58 am
      “Legendary Fighter”

      Wonder who that can be. Maybe a flashback of Ser Arthur Dayne?

      All the cookies on this. ALL. I’m borrowing my neighbors cupcakes too to put it on this idea.

      EDIT for checklist:
      – paragon of knighthood – CHECK
      – famous sword – CHECK
      – legendary knight – CHECK

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    33. Legendary Fighter: A man in his thirties or forties who is a great swordsman and a paragon of knighthood. He carries a famous sword. The show is seeking a very impressive swordsman for the role- the best in Europe, for a week of filming fight scenes for a season 6 role. His ethnicity/race isn’t specified, unlike many other roles.

      Just as an outside bet: Ser Harras Harlaw ( with Nightfall) accompanying Euron.

      Just puttin’ it out there…

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    34. And rereading this it looks like Cian is on the money and so was Hodor’s Bastard with many other who said Northern Lords are IMPORTANT and should/would be included in the show as a group!

      Note to Wimsey,: Northern Lords are important. And they have a voice! :p #LongMemory #BadManners

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    35. This is a good day…casting for Northern lords, corrupted men of the BWB, and a legendary fighter with a famous sword (Arthru Dayne, please).

      This makes up for the Dorne disappointment.

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    36. Tormund’s Woman:
      And rereading this it looks like Cian is on the money and so was Hodor’s Bastard with many other who said Northern Lords are IMPORTANT and should/would be included in the show as a group!

      Note to Wimsey,: Northern Lords are important. And they have a voice! :p #LongMemory #BadManners

      Wimsey get rekt :p Lol

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    37. Sean C.,

      Who else could it be? I don’t see Jaime going on a journey through the land, meeting traveling septons and lowlife bandits, that screams Brienne AFFC chapters. I can’t think of any other characters who isn’t already busy doing soemthing else.

      I don’t understand why is everyone hopping on the Arthur Dayne hype train, when the obvious answer is Darkstar.

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    38. This definitely sounds like an Umber to me.

      He’s described as a massive bear of a man with a beard and temper to match, and hatred that run deep, and he can be violent. The show’s looking for someone with a powerful physique who can tower over other cast members, a Northern English Accent and specifies he has to be at least 180 cm tall.

      If at 180 cm tall he can tower over the rest of the cast though, are they all tiny? Because that’s not very big.

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    39. jentario,

      The age is off for it to be the Greatjon. I would hope they word at least attempt to keep him in the same range as Clive Mantle; though with the two Daarios, perhaps not.

      The Smalljon or some other Umber son would be better.

      KrakenDaughter,

      I’d say Jaime is far more likely, given his not likely remaining in KL. Brienne has found Sansa in the show; it makes no sense for her to leave the North now.

      TheRedWoman,

      Yeah, Sophie is 175 cm without heels, so if he had scenes with her he wouldn’t look that impressive.

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    40. Boudica:
      I have a feeling that Stannis’s arc might have been cut short on purpose, because they might give some of that arc together with Northern alliance against the Boltons to Jon next season. (That is if Jon actually comes back).
      It would be a bit frustrating if they give someone like Littlefinger a Northern alliance?

      Well, the alliance would be with Sansa, even if LF negotiated it. She’s a Stark and I think more likely than Jon. A resurrected Jon storyline would probably have other priorities. I agree about cutting the Stannis storyline short.

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    41. Dunno why, but my “request timed out”.. -.-

      What I wrote was that the casting calls don’t fit Manderly at all. Nor does it fit stuff like Glover. Manderly just doesn’t fit: a massive bear of a man with a beard and temper to match, and hatred that run deep, and he can be violent.” or as a “ruthless, calculating, and frightening lord”. This just screams Mors/Hother Umber – known to be incredibly hotheaded. While the second screams “Lord” Arnolf Karstark – known to be extremely calculating and ruthless. In my head, this basically confirmed Rickon’s return.

      As for Flynn, Lachlan, Japeth and Bower. A group of outlaws that uses religion to justify their horrors, turning on the land they swore to protect. This screams at me as a twisted remnant of the BwB.

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    42. Wimsey,

      You’re fantastic you know that right?
      It’s always such a joy reading your thoughts and comments.
      By the way i’m not usually comment but i’m a long time reader ( and english isn’t my first language so forgive me for my mistakes)

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    43. Sue the Fury,

      Could be. But why would they be casting a leader when we already have Berric and Thoros?

      My guess is that this will be a group that pops up as a result of the Sparrow movement and supports the Faith.

      I think Cersei will banish Jaime from King’s Landing and that he’ll end up meeting Meribald and the outlaws.

      “Legendary Warrior” screams a flashback due to his filming for a week. And the thing about the sword makes this seem like Arthur Dayne…. BUT it could just as easily be Azor Ahai or something like that. In any case, Bran related.

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    44. Queenofthrones,

      Turncloak:
      Queenofthrones,

      They would have had to structure the entirety of season 5 differently if they incorporated the Northern Lords into Sansa’s storyline. The decision for the Sansa/Jeyne Pool swap was made back in season 2.

      It did regress Sansa as a character but it managed to capture the dread of the books and left Theon’s character arc more or less in tact with the book version.

      I believe D&D have stated that Theon is their favorite character so it makes sense why they did it.

      Hopefully Sansa improves in season 6

      More or less intact? They butchered his character as well as Sansa. He became a tertiary character in his storyline, neglected, misinterpreted and underused. Myranda had more lines than him, Olly had more screen time. His book arc is inexistent and even the “redemption”is rushed and unmotivated.
      I don’t believe that he is their favorite, probably they love Alfie’s interpretation but they don’t get Theon’s (and Sansa’s) complexity at all.

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    45. Seeing ‘legendary fighter’ with a famous sword, my first thoughts were Lyn Corbray. He carries Lady Forlorn, after all. Then I remembered Ser Arthur Dayne, and god I wish that is the right guess. It has to be him. No character in the series suits the casting description as good as the Sword of the Morning. His ethnicity is not specified because he is a Dornishman.

      Seems we will get a lot of flashbacks. Taking into account the first casting list for young northern boys, I think the Lord of Noble Northern House can be Ned’s dad, Rickard Stark. Although its more likely some Umber or Glover if we consider there are only 2 seasons left to cover two books.

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    46. I was thinking Smalljon rather than a Greatjon recast. They never had him in the show, so the fact that he perished at the RW in the books could be irrelevant I guess. If it is Smalljon, I’d love to see Clive Standen from Vikings. He just screams Smalljon Umber to me.

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    47. Northern Lords!!! Finally.Interesting bit about outlaw band.Who could it be?

      That bit about skilled swordsman with legendary sword.It looks very much like Ser Arthur Dayne and his sword Dawn.Maybe Gerold Dayne is anotehr option.Let’s see.I would expect Hightower,and Whent there too,if it’s indeed TOJ scene.It says fighting scenes so more than one.That should be interesting.

      Tbh personally,I don’t expect to see Tower of Joy flashback in the show(nor do I think show need it).Maybe it will be somenthing else.It’s another hype train and people will be dissapointed.

      We want to see whole House Dayne including Ashara and Edric!Please D&D.

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    48. The Loon,

      Hey I hated the book plot with Jeyne almost as much. I don’t care much for theon, but he’s clearly D and Ds fave (any comments they make about sansa being more important than Theon to clearly damage control).

      I’ll say it again. If they had been creative there were plenty of ways to put Sansa in Jeynes General predicament (that is, in winterfell and married/affianced to a monster) without her spending the entire season raped abused and locked in a room. they even set up some possibilities like her working behind the scenes to undermine the Boltons. But, they clearly wanted to film “that great scene with Ramsey” (ew), thus proving Ramsey and theon are more important to them than Sansa.

      I honestly think D and d are too busy to adapt creatively and actually be true to characters. See also, Dorne. That’s why I think they need to stop trying to do specific book plots and instead just follow the general outline they have from George – they do much better when they let the characters act organically in new situations. Like, I thought some of the northern stuff (first 4 eps) was very promising. Lots of great action with LF and sansa. After awhile they seem to have thrown their hands up and say “eh this is too hard just do the book plot”.

      That’s why I want them to cut more – they are better without being tied to the books, it makes them lazy.

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    49. Esgred,

      Is this a joke…. that was literally Theon’s arc in the book but without Mance there and the Bolton’s allies (Freys, Dustin, Karstark) not being on screen. And how’s he gonna have lots of lines when he’s a wimpering shell of a man… smh

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    50. Im wondering how they could frame a TOJ flashback without Ned. Either Howland gets introduced or Bran sees it through the weir network?

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    51. Oh snap, the Brotherhood without Banners is coming back? They just keep tormenting LSH fans, don’t they? I hope Beric and/or Thoros return at least.

      And the Lord of Northern Noble House is definitely an Umber, perhaps Smalljon given the age range. I guess that means Rickon is making a return as well. The North remembers!

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    52. Why do people think the outlaw band are the BWB? This lot sound like a particularly nasty bunch, extorting the poor and vulnerable. Doesn’t sound like the BWB at all?

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    53. Queenofthrones,

      Stick to the Books! Don’t Stick to the Books! STICK TO THE BOOKS! DON’T STICK TO THE BOOKS!

      Any chance you guys can just fight it out and leave the rest of us alone?

      There is nothing in books 4 and 5 that should be respected. Absolutely nothing. I’m growing sick of the revisionist crap about Dorne, which is just as useless in the books.

      I’m growing sick of the “Sansa didn’t get raped in the books” because what happens to Jeyne Poole is worse and she doesn’t do anything to facilitate her own escape.

      The books are never improving. I’m not convinced there will even BE more books, but there is absolutely no evidence to convince us Book 6 will be any better than Books 4 and 5.

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    54. Ross,

      A band of outlaws who turned on the land they swore to protect and use religion to justify terrorizing and extorting people? Unless they’re making up some random new group that fits the description, it has to be the BWB.

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    55. Ross,

      The same Brotherhood Without Banners that sold Gendry to a Red Priestess after they promised him a place amongst them. It sounds accurate for their show representation… assuming we have a similar situation to the books, where there’s no Beric to lead them, and Thoros is spent, and all used up. They’re not particularly nice when we meet them in the later books.

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    56. BWB, or some new club. Definitely sounds as the BWB.

      So yeah, people will still hope for LSH until at least episode 10 of next year

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    57. Robb Snow:
      Ross,

      An band of outlaws who turned on the land they swore to protect and use religion to justify terrorizing and extorting people? Unless they’re making up some random new group that fits the description, it has to be the BwB.

      The BwB fell into disrepute in the books after Beric died to bring back you know who. The show version may have done the same but without you know who.

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    58. Robb Snow:
      Ross,

      An band of outlaws who turned on the land they swore to protect and use religion to justify terrorizing and extorting people? Unless they’re making up some random new group that fits the description, it has to be the BwB.

      I think my book memory is a bit hazy. I remember them as a fundamentally ‘good’ bunch whose morality goes a bit questionable with their involvement with LS (I remember Thoros starting to doubt what they are doing for example). I don’t remember them turning on the poor and vulnerable. It’s been a while since I read them though.

        Quote  Reply

    59. Seeing a lot of Arthur Dayne… but my first thought was Lyn Corbray. Baelish needs some muscle and a right-hand man. He told Cersei he would handle the Northern issue this season.

        Quote  Reply

    60. Mormont,

      You have to reread the books, at that point in the books Theon is resurfacing and he had a lot of interactions with Lady Dustin, the washerwomen, Jeyne etc.
      He has the beautiful confession in front of the heart tree. In the books it is clear he is slowly becoming Theon again, in the tv series is a whimpering shell of a man in all the episodes he appears because he has not progressed at all from the Reek status (and Sansa didn’t help a lot in this, even before the wedding she keeps yelling insults at him while Jeyne triggers his redemption calling him by his name, considering him a man, a very important point for his identity arc)
      Winterfell arc in the tv series has been deprived of everything except the shock of the rape and the jump from the battlements.
      And guys, the Winterfell arc is about Theon. He is the pov, the main character of that storyline. Jeyne is important ( I think she saved him as well he saved her) but the main focus is him. I didn’t like that Sansa was there from the start, I hated what they have done with her character in this season, but it is stupid complaining about Theon when he became the most unimportant character in HIS story.

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    61. KrakenDaughter,

      Hope springs eternal. But who knows? Maybe they changed their minds about including her (although it sounds like this Lachlan is in charge now going by the description).

        Quote  Reply

    62. joffreysbleedingeyes,

      In the beginning of premiere, the show introduce the Tower of Joy flashbacks, revealing that Jon Snow is Jon Targaryen. And in the end of episode, the Watchers burn him corpse, with Melisandre watching this, and BOOM Jon Targaryen alive.

        Quote  Reply

    63. Congratulations for getting yet another scoop. Too busy this week to really discuss things, but this certainly sounds very exciting!!

        Quote  Reply

    64. The maester might be the one having a hard time on Victarion’s ship … Kerwin, is it?

      Sounds like the Brotherhood is back (and not better than ever.)

        Quote  Reply

    65. Esgred,

      I knew somebody would come out with that bullshit. Of course Reek has fewer lines than tertiary characters. He’s not a talkative person, is he? Have you read his chapters? If anything, they’ve been unfaithful by giving him so many out-loud lines. Hey may have fewer lines than Myranda, but he has more screen-time, many more interactions, and much more development.

        Quote  Reply

    66. Ser Arthur Dan,

      Strangely enough there’s supposedly a scene with Ned/ Sean Bean that never made it in any of the seasons, that no one knows what it is. I don’t think it’s that much of a stretch to make

      ToJ. Also they are recasting what could prove the Stark boys (different article on WotW) so there seems to be a bunch of Ned to go around. They could just cast another 20 something old Ned.

        Quote  Reply

    67. hexonx,
      João Victor,

      And who has the flashback?

      Bran? How likely is a weirwood at that specific location?
      Howland Reed, whom we do not know?
      Meera telling to Bran what Howland told her?
      Howland Reed telling Rickon who magically resurfaces at the Neck?

      I think that is all rather unlikely, or maybe just rather ugly from a story-telling point of view.

      But we will see. Anyway, I, personally, do not really expect this specific flashback

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    68. TFT:
      BWB, or some new club. Definitely sounds as the BWB.

      To be fair, even without LSH, the Brotherhood story should be followed-up, considering how it was dropped unceremoniously after the Red Wedding. They did make a point of noting how the Blackfish was still out there, for example.

        Quote  Reply

    69. Ross: I know right.Deluded fool though I am, I do honestly think it will happen now.

      You get either Jon coming back, or LSH. Not getting both. That’s too much resurrection for a general audience.

        Quote  Reply

    70. winterisntcomming:
      Legendary fighter…
      Carries a famous sword…

      May be Randyll Tarly.

      Most think he was described to a T in an earlier casting call (along with his wife and his other son). So I’m pretty sure this is someone else.

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    71. So, that definitely sounds like the brotherhood, except that turning on the smallfolk seems weird, unless this is a TWOW development we are not aware of, which is possible. The nail in the coffin, in my opinion, is that they are casting their leader, which makes no sense, as the brotherhood’s leader would be either Beric, Thoros or LSH. So… not the brotherhood, then?

      The others… we can make guesses, but nothing for certain. The only obvious one seems time be Sir Arthur Dayne. Great swordman, a famous sword… there’s no other way about it, is there? We ARE getting a TOJ flashback after all, and complete with the fight, who would’ve thought. Well, I had hoped, but not expected. Is this gonna be the reveal of J=R+L?

      Honestly, the off-season is, in a weird way, more exciting than the on-season itself.

        Quote  Reply

    72. Cameryn: To be fair, even without LSH, the Brotherhood story should be followed-up, considering how it was dropped unceremoniously after the Red Wedding.They did make a point of noting how the Blackfish was still out there, for example.

      I’d rather have the BwB being led by a renegade Blackfish into revenge on the Freys than she who must not be named.

        Quote  Reply

    73. KrakenDaughter: Oh God :/ Not another season of LSH false hype.

      Ha! I called it the week before the finale — the longer LSH fails to appear on the show, the stronger their faith becomes!

      I think they need to add a scene after the credits roll on the final episode of the entire series where Michelle Fairley looks into the camera and says, “Boo!”

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    74. joffreysbleedingeyes: I really do not see any reasonable way to include a

      ___
      -flashback …

      Uh, how about

      Bran. Tree network. Or: Howland Reed.

      Or, they just DO it. They didn’t “introduce” the Cersei flashback at the beginning of this season using any existing plot mechanism.

        Quote  Reply

    75. Chriss,

      Sansa is the strongest female character in game of thrones and one of the strongest in general and story of fans not understand her is an old one

        Quote  Reply

    76. joffreysbleedingeyes:
      I really do not see any reasonable way to include a

      -flashback …

      Well maybe it won´t be a flahback … maybe AD or whoever he is is alive.
      D&D have changed a lot of things why not that too…

      As for TOJ and all i wouldn˙t get my hopes up since the casting call is 9 people short for that fight.

      No Hype remember how the whole “Benjen” thing ended up? It was a master t-rollin´ by D&D.

        Quote  Reply

    77. Sam: Or, they just DO it. They didn’t “introduce” the Cersei flashback at the beginning of this season using any existing plot mechanism.

      Exactly, even though it did cut to Cersei after, but the show is not forced to have a POV character like the books.

        Quote  Reply

    78. Luka Nieto:
      We ARE getting a TOJ flashback after all, and complete with the fight, who would’ve thought.

      That’s not a sure thing.I would expect the other two members of the Kingsguard to be there too.No to mention certain L and other people like certain Reed.Maybe in the next few months and maybe I will believe that ToJ hype. 😀

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    79. “The show is seeking a very impressive swordsman for the role- the best in Europe.” Sounds exactly like a role for Axel Pettersson? LOL

        Quote  Reply

    80. I hope HBO and D&D plan out these flashback scenes well.

      Only because in my fantasy after D&D are done with GoT we get another spinoff series, like a prequel, and if there are any actors playing characters in the GoT series, if those same characters end up in the prequel my hope would be that the same actors come back to play them.

      Wow, that’s a messed up sentence but you know what I mean.

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    81. Hoyti Von Totiy,

      They could easily just cast some extras for other fighters. The focus would be on Ned and Dayne anyway.

      I’m curious to know who would play young Ned and Lyanna more than anything. Also, if they’re really going to spill the beans on

      Jon’s true parentage

      there’s not much reason to believe Jon is gone for good. It would be a pointless reveal otherwise.

        Quote  Reply

    82. Everyone is talking about Arthur Dayne, but what if this legendary warrior is someone unexpected who’s going to champion the Sparrows against FrankenMountain and Cersei? It’s important to note that it says the guy will only shoot for a week. I doubt that would work for a longer term guy like Lyn Corbray.

      I can’t help thinking that these storylines are not end game material yet, and we’re supposed to be up to the penultimate season! How are D&D going to speed this up?

        Quote  Reply

    83. Turncloak:
      Sean C.,

      I believe the Lord of a Northern Stronghold is actually a Castellan while the Lord of a Northern house is actually a Lord

      I assumed that a “house” was actually a real castle and that a stronghold was anything that was fortified but not necessarily a castle.

        Quote  Reply

    84. Wimsey,

      Actually, he does pop up on in other books, most notably in AFFC when he meets Brienne in Maidenpool and dispenses this “enlightened” bit of advice:

      The gods made men to fight, and women to bear children. A woman’s war is in the birthing bed.

      I’m not a big fan of Randyll…for a variety of reasons.

        Quote  Reply

    85. Luka Nieto:
      Esgred,

      I knew somebody would come out with that bullshit. Of course Reek has fewer lines than tertiary characters. He’s not a talkative person, is he? Have you read his chapters? If anything, they’ve been unfaithful by giving him so many out-loud lines. Hey may have fewer lines than Myranda, but he has more screen-time, many more interactions, and much more development.

      Of course I have, Theon is my favorite character and Winterfell arc in ADWD is the best storyline in the books imho. I know that most of his lines in the books are thoughts, but he has also some dialogues (with Lady Dustin, the washerwomen, Jeyne etc. I have to repeat it?=), and he could have done the same with Sansa
      But in the tv series he says only “sorry” after insulted by Sansa and “I am Reek”. In his last chapter of ADWD, he calls himself Theon, because his real identity resurfaced again thanks to a lot of factors: he also asks the Old Golds to die as Theon and not as Reek. But the man that jumped with Sansa in the last episode is still Reek, there’s nothing in the series that justifies his change. They don’t bother at all to show his struggle to became again the man he was. I didn’t see any development, he is the same in every episode he appears, except the last 30 seconds when abruptly decides to kill Myranda and convinces Sansa to jump (when in the previous episode he said that it is impossible to escape from Ramsay)
      Perhaps we have seen two different series if you have noticed all this screentime and character development.

        Quote  Reply

    86. Aisling,

      An alliance with Sansa would also be a good idea, I just hope Littlefinger isn’t to involved, she could act as a regent for Rickon. It does make me wonder if Sansa and Theon will go up to the Wall. And if Jon would be resurrected or not, and how quick it would happen. It would be awesome if Sansa and Jon could work together, well any Stark alliance would be amazing. The reason why I thought Jon could take Winterfell is because of what Melisandre said to Stannis, the Botlons will fall and she will walk on the battlements of Winterfell. This obviously did not happen for Stannis, so it made me wonder if it might happen with Jon. It would also work as a more successful execution of the Pink Letter dilemma. If Jon is resurrected quickly enough then I would imagine that he would want to unite the North to be able to fight against the long night, or he might go to the Lands of Always Winter. But it could all work perfectly if he and Sansa works together, Sansa can do the politics and Jon could be the military arm of the North, and they could still send Davos to find Rickon.

      Brienne and Podrick might meet up with Sansa and Theon after their escape from Winterfell, perhaps Brienne will tell Sansa that she met Arya along the way. Sansa could then perhaps send Brienne to look for Arya again, it would then make sense if Brienne ran across some outlaws.

      But all of that is properly way to perfect and easy, for GoT, I guess that is more wishful thinking.

        Quote  Reply

    87. Geralt of Rivia,

      LOL That’s funny actually! Expecting them to stick to the number of the fighters on each side, or even to who they are, when you don’t really expect them to stick to the book and include the scene.

        Quote  Reply

    88. Robb Snow,

      That’s exactly why i don’t think it’s the brotherhood. Even without LSH, they introduced 3 memebers of the BWB in the show, i can’t imagine they couldn’t get any of those actors to reprise their roles in the biggest show on TV.

      And even though the Brotherhood took a darker turn under the Stoneheart regime, it was about getting revenge not the” lowlife thuggery ” vibe i got from the desriptions.

      I’ll go ahead and guess that they’re merging the BWB with the Bloody Mummers to steamline Brienne’s journey.

        Quote  Reply

    89. How long until that insufferable girl on nerdist.com picks this story up, transcribes all the speculation from the comments and then acts like she came up with it all herself? *shakes fist at annoying internet person*

        Quote  Reply

    90. Zalos:
      I doubt that would work for a longer term guy like Lyn Corbray.

      Evryone is so focused on the sword ….
      Does this part seem like Lyn Corbray to anyone ? :

      Legendary Fighter: A man in his thirties or forties who is a great swordsman and a paragon of knighthood. He carries a famous sword. The show is seeking a very impressive swordsman for the role- the best in Europe, for a week of filming fight scenes for a season 6 role. His ethnicity/race isn’t specified, unlike many other roles.

        Quote  Reply

    91. Sue the Fury,

      Seems like a big change though from the Robin Hood-like BWB in S3. They got currupted alright, but into a revenge group, not bullies. Sounds more like Sparrows to me. The Faith is in power now and we’ll probably see some criminals take advantage of that, probably in the Riverlands. Something from The Winds of Winter perhaps, a dark parallel to BWB.

        Quote  Reply

    92. Esgred,

      If you’re a Theon fan you should be happy that Stannis is dead since it’s looks likely that’s he’s getting sacrified early WoW. At least in the show we’re going to see more of his transformation.

      The only part i miss about the Winterfell storyline is the confession in the Godswood, Alfie Allen would have killed it. But it’s understandable since we haven’t seen any of Bran’s training yet.

        Quote  Reply

    93. Luka Nieto:

      Sean Bean shouldn’t be playing a 20 year old.

      Well no, but I really don’t want to see a random actor pretending to be young Sean Bean.

      In the show canon, Ned was probably at least 25 by time of the Robert’s Rebellion. Not that it makes much difference.

        Quote  Reply

    94. Anyone think we should be worried at the lack of Ironborn casting? Could it be that the Pirate character is not who we thought?

        Quote  Reply

    95. The Lord of Noble Northern House definitely sounds like an Umber to me. When I first read the description, I thought this might be a recast version of the Greatjon … but then I went back and saw the age requirements allowed the character to be as young as 25. So that doesn’t exactly fit. But I do think we will see the Umbers and the other Northern lords this season, especially since Rickon was rumored to be heading to Last Hearth at the end of Season 3. (My guess would be that Rickon will be revealed to have been hiding at Last Hearth under the Umbers’ protection since his last appearance. I do not think that Davos’s extended side quest to Skagos will be included in the show).

      The Legendary Fighter with a “famous sword” certainly appears to be consistent Arthur Dayne. Obviously, that character can only appear via flashback – most likely at the Tower of Joy. When this news is combined with the prior casting call that included what appeared to be the description of a young Ned Stark, I think we may be seeing a significant part of Bran’s arc this season come into focus. In addition to whatever greater training that the Three-Eyed Raven puts him through, he could explore several key moments in the life of his father via the Weirwood network (a perfect opportunity for Sean Bean to make his long-desired return). That could culminate in the reveal of Jon’s parentage, and presage his return.

      While I hope Jon will be resurrected early in Season 6, I could envision a scenario in which he’s absent for most of the season, and only returns to life after his true lineage has been revealed to the audience. That would pretty clearly set him up as the central character heading into the endgame, the battle against the White Walkers, and what will likely be the final season of Game of Thrones.

      Lachlan, Flynn, Japeth, and potentially Bower all sound like they could be members of the Brotherhood without Banners gone rogue. This information would be consistent with the show’s rumored return to the Riverlands for Season 6. If this is the Brotherhood, then of course the question becomes who will be leading them. It could be Beric and Thoros. It could be the Blackfish. It could be someone new. Or it could be the dreadful specter of the Internet’s most overblown character.

      I had so hoped that the end Season 5 would finally kill off the incessant speculation about when Lady Stoneheart is going to turn up. Alas. I am not eager to see that carousel of speculation and misplaced hype start up again, but of course it will. I just hope that I can stay out of its path, and that the prospect of that character’s appearance will either be confirmed or debunked (hopefully the latter) relatively quickly. Normally, I’m all for speculating about which characters may appear based on scant circumstantial evidence. But in the case of this particular character, I want no part of it.

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    96. Nearly all of these new cast are invention of D&D, and have nothing to do with GRRM’s novel, that means D&D have decided to go farther down the road that is started with season 5, now I can say season 6 is doomed even before it is filemed

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    97. OK, I don’t want to get my hopes up here, but if we’re getting a Tower of Joy flashback here, then there’s NO WAY Jon is actually gone for good. Why bother even going in to that territory if it’s irrelevant to the plot? Kit should have done us all a favor and just answered “No comment”.

        Quote  Reply

    98. KrakenDaughter,

      There’s no way that’s not Euron. The description is so on the nose that they might as well have just said outright they’re casting Euron Greyjoy.

      Aeron and Victarion are probably out so they’ll likely bring back Gemma Whelan (in fact I think she tweeted recently that she would be at Comic Con with other GOT cast members) and just cast small parts and extras for other Ironborn.

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    99. I doubt this is casting for BwB since, as mentioned already, they already have a leader and they never preyed upon the poor. Far more likely this is casting for the Ironborn raid on the Shield Islands of The Reach in the name of the Drowned God. Although they have a leader in Euron he’s going to be busy finding dragons

        Quote  Reply

    100. KrakenDaughter,

      Of the 3 BWB characters they introduced in the show, at this point in the books…

      Beric is gone for good, Thoros is aged, grey and fragile, and Anguy isn’t seen in Feast. Instead, you’ve got Lem Lemoncloak, who’s happy to wear the Hound’s helmet, despite its history and symbolism, and others eager to hang Brienne and Podrick and Hyle Hunt. LSH isn’t with them, when they capture Brienne and the rest, so it’d make sense to have someone in charge, such as Lem, until the LSH reveal (if that’s what they’re going for). Having these other characters doesn’t mean Thoros won’t appear.

        Quote  Reply

    101. Mr Fixit,

      Someone has not seen Snow White and the Huntsman. It’s really not that difficult to make a 50 year old look like a 20 year old thanks to the advances in makeup

        Quote  Reply

    102. marsyao,

      What the hell are you talking about? Season 6 will be the equivalent of Winds of Winter. Which means that a lot of the new characters we see in S6 will most likely appear in George’s next book. I thought that was pretty evident.

        Quote  Reply

    103. marsyao,

      Or, they’re characters from the books, with different names in the casting calls to prevent reveals, and with their characters altered slightly to fit the show universe. Or TWOW characters we haven’t seen in the books yet.

        Quote  Reply

    104. Ravyn,

      Not necessarily if the first reincarnation happened in the past. We have not seen the BWB for ages (Lachlan and co seem A LOT like BWB), still the writers would need to explain why Beric isn´t with them anymore (IF he isn´t there anymore). Now they have six options (at least I see four obvious options, there may be even more);

      1.) Telling us he died/ the lord of light didn´t bring him back this time around. This just seems incredibly random after Beric´s revival, which is still the only in the show, and most likely won´t happen.
      2.) Telling us that Beric and Thoros abandoned the BWB after these got corrupted and malevolent. Still not very likely, since the quite explicit set-up in Season 3 would be completely neglected.
      3.) Stick completely to the books: Include Lady Stoneheart and make the BWB her minions. It would be a delight for some fans, however I´m not sure if it makes that much sense to include her after all that time hs passed since the Red Wedding, it´s just not that relevant anymore…
      4.) Random other guy has taken over the BWB. Blackfish or maybe even Gendry, he even once was with the BWB and honestly, he can´t be just rowing in the Narrow Sea after all this time. The Riverlands and the BWB would be a logical place form him to go. This would make sense since they could then more or less

      stick to the books concerning Brienne´s journey, as we know she met Gendry at the Inn at the crossroads. Possibly they stay faithful to that, potentially they could even include Lady Stoneheart there, but that wouldn´t be necessary.

      5. The BWB are a substitute for LSH and the book-story of Brienne will be applied.

      She travels the Riverlands, gets caught by the BWB and is forced to swear an oath to kill Jaime. Possible, just as or even a bit more likely than LSH.

      6. Those aren´t the BWB but the bloddy mummers or some other group of mercenaries. Definitely an option, even though we may not yet see what that means for the story/ the plotline of the one character interacting with them.

      So to conclude this, I deem options 4&5 as the most likely, option 3&6 could well be possible, too. At least that´s what I could think of, like I said before, there could be so many other options since we didn´t have a chance to read TWOW yet and thus lack quite a bit of insight into the story. To be honest, I really do not care very much about LSH, she has a minor role in the books as of now and may be included for the sake of the part of the fadom that craves for her appearance, but she might as well be scrapped for good.

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    105. joffreysbleedingeyes,

      I’m with you. Seeing anything beyond Lyanna’s conversation with Ned is pointless and has no relevance to the show at all. It won’t be done justice so leave it out.
      I guess it’s possible that he has survived but I’m not sure how old he was when he “died”. Rhaegar was in his mid 20s I think and I believe Dayne was of a similar age so he might just scrape into the age range. I’m really not sure!
      If we have to look around or other candidates Lyn Cobray is the most obvious choice I guess. Anyone else would surely have to be a flashback and I can’t really see the point in any flashbacks that would add anyting at this point.

      For the northern Lords then , unless they create their own characters, the bear man would have to be Mors or Smalljon Umber. A bit confused why they didn’t just use the Greatjon again though?. The other lords well, could be any of them but Wyman Manderly is the most fitting as he’s probably the only really prominent Northern Lord and the description of his stronghold could be New Castle (be funny if they cast all of them as Geordies!) in White Harbour and they are very loyal vassels to the starks although I would have thought they would have mentioned his jovial side and weight as well as his calculating side unless they’re going to change him up a bit.

      Interesting times!

        Quote  Reply

    106. Mr Fixit: Well no, but I really don’t want to see a random actor pretending to be young Sean Bean.

      In the show canon, Ned was probably at least 25 by time of the Robert’s Rebellion. Not that it makes much difference.

      True, but Ned was supposed to already be gray-haired. They were living lifestyles that aged them more rapidly than modern lifestyles would: and particularly more than the lifestyles of most actors and actresses (who live to keep looking young, after all).

      Moreover, it is pretty easy with CGI to make people look a bit younger, particularly in the right settings. Flashbacks are ideal for that: you often want the production of “flashbacks” to look more dream like (paler colors, less sharp focus) in order to cue the viewing audience that they are seeing the past or a memory, and it usually works pretty well these days.

      Now, you don’t want to do too much of it for too long: but in small doses and in slightly surreal settings, it works just fine. (They did a pretty good job with Lena Headey’s head on Mercy: there were only a few times that it slipped; this would actually be less work and in a shorter scene.)

      Looking at this, there are tons and tons of possible interpretations. My guess is that they are doing one of them. (Or not.)

      But as for the Tower of Joy, that will be done only if Jon is returning: otherwise, what point would it have? Moreover, I still worry that they have cut Jon is to avoid showing that.

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    107. Whoever D&D cast as Lyanna has to be a dark haired and dark eyed (Stark features) beauty.

      I mean we are talking Helen of Troy type beauty here…

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    108. Turncloak,

      Has to be. And what’s the point if Jon isn’t coming back? Big hint that he’s coming back!!!

      By the way, I don’t buy the “reborn in fire” possibility. He isn’t fire-proof like Dany.

        Quote  Reply

    109. A few people have mentioned the Umbers, and seeing as they live way up North and are apparently housing Rickon, that could be a possibility. However, is there a chance that we may finally meet some of the Skagosi?

        Quote  Reply

    110. Ginevra,

      The nobleman who leads a House is the head of the family – the CEO in his expensive suit.
      The lords of the strongholds are the IT managers, the warehouse boss, etc.

        Quote  Reply

    111. TheTouchOfFrost:

      Rhaegar was in his mid 20s I think and I believe Dayne was of a similar age so he might just scrape into the age range. I’m really not sure!If we have to look around or other candidates Lyn Cobray is the most obvious choice I guess.Anyone else would surely have to be a flashback and I can’t really see the point in any flashbacks that would add anyting at this point.

      I don’t see how it can be Lyn Corbray. Do you think Lyn is a paragon of knighthood?

      I’d like to add that the ‘legendary fighter’ highly likely appears in a flashback. Note how the casting call isn’t looking for an actor at all — it’s looking for “the best swordsman in Europe”. If the guy’s not an actor, what larger role could he possibly have? I’d say what we have is a flashback sequence.

        Quote  Reply

    112. In all honesty, I have respect for HBO and you’d think they already know D&D don’t want to do this fantasy series forever.

      You’d think HBO signed up GRRM for a reason right, to move forward with his Westeros fantasy world after D&D move on to whatever they want to do next.

      Because of this, you’d think HBO would be working closely with D&D when they are doing any flashback casting so the same actors cast for these roles can reappear in a new prequel series.

      IDK, it doesn’t seem that far fetched an idea to me, D&D would be doing HBO a huge favor kind of with the flashbacks, laying out the seeds that could grow into another Westeros series.

      But they would have to really coordinate everything on an unprecedented level to make it work.

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    113. Arthur,

      Emergency Awesome did a video a month or two ago about Lyanna and used a picture of Lily Collins from Mirror Mirror as his “stand in” whenever referring to her. Ever since then I can’t help but picture her when I read or think about Lyanna.

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    114. What’s interesting to me reading these casting notices/speculations is to try and filter them through the lens of the saga’s finale. There isn’t much (if any) time left for stray subplots and divergences. As it is I wonder how they’re going to wrap up what they have in the air in just two more seasons. Everything now has to point to the finale, and figuring out how these news items fit into that, as opposed to serving fan wish lists, is fascinating.

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    115. Queenofthrones:
      I wish d and d would stick to their guns and cut some of this fat.

      It would have been so easy just to have Sansa work with these lords last season but nooooooo woman locked in room abused so that awful male character can be “redeemed” is just so much more interesting that woman semi successfully navigating complex northern politics and saving her own damn self.#Stillbitter, #neveroverit.

      ”Awful male character”
      username Queen of thrones
      what more is there to say really

        Quote  Reply

    116. Sundancer:
      Turncloak,

      Has to be. And what’s the point if Jon isn’t coming back? Big hint that he’s coming back!!!

      By the way, I don’t buy the “reborn in fire” possibility. He isn’t fire-proof like Dany.

      He’s burned his hand. Dany was also burned by Drogon escaping Daznak’s pit. Not all Targaryen’s are fire-proof but it’s been said special circumstances can lead to be immune to fire. Well, with Shireen at the Wall in the books maybe this is the reason for burning Shireen. Only blood can pay for life. Of course it was a little different for Dany as she was still alive when she went into the flames.

        Quote  Reply

    117. Tormund’s Woman,

      Secretly I would want this to happen,but I’m a bit sceptical in this.I would believe in the ToJ scene,if we’re getting other guys from this fight like Howland Reed,Hightower and Whent.Notto mention Lyanna.

      Ned,Howland and other extras vs Arthur Dayne,Hightower,Whent.This is just one smal piece in the puzzle.

      It would make a good tv.Hightower with his “We swore a vow”,Arthur “So it begins” and ned with his “So it ends”. Tbh I would like to see young Lyanna flashback.

        Quote  Reply

    118. It almost sounds like Lachlan, Flynn and Japath could be Kingswood Brotherhood and the “Legendary Fighter” could be Athur Dayne defeating them in Bran flashbacks?

        Quote  Reply

    119. KrakenDaughter,

      Actually I am not, and not only because I am also a Stannis fan.
      I love the interaction between the two in that TWOW chapter and I was looking forward for it, and once again I’ll be disappointed.
      I don’t think he will be sacrified , I have a sensation that Theon has still a part to play in the story, and probably in the series he will come back to the Islands, considered that in the 6th season we’ll see Euron and probably the Kingsmoot ( I hope)

        Quote  Reply

    120. Arya Havin’ a Larf?: I’d rather have the BwB being led by a renegade Blackfish into revenge on the Freys than she who must not be named.

      Totally agree. Bring back the Blackfish!

      Boudica:
      Aisling,

      An alliance with Sansa would also be a good idea, I just hope Littlefinger isn’t to involved, she could act as a regent for Rickon.

      Sansa can do the politics and Jon could be the military arm of the North.

      I agree that Sansa will get back Winterfell and become Rickon’s regent. However, nothing in the show has given an indication that Sansa could independently navigate politics yet. Season 5 reinforced this with the snarky way she talked to the Boltons. In season 4 she made a decision to lie for LF and try to align herself with a stronger player. LF is bad news, but their stories are intertwined for a while.

      I think they are combining the main strokes of Sansa’s AFFC’s storyline with the Northern conspiracy storyline in ADWD. LF was doing a lot of political maneuvering and buying up debts to get allies in the Vale and he was becoming looser in revealing his larger plans to Sansa. He will probably do the same thing but in the North. They will reintegrate LF and Sansa’s TWOW storyline.

        Quote  Reply

    121. Robb Snow,

      I love Charlie. He may not always be right in his predictions, but he puts a ton of work into his videos and has a fantastic background understanding.

        Quote  Reply

    122. ” The group is using religion to justify terrorizing and extorting what they need from the people of the countryside.”

      Why religion is always potrayed as completely negative? The character from earlier casting that might be septon Meriband is probably some villain too. It is getting a bit annoying.

        Quote  Reply

    123. Arthur:
      Whoever D&D cast as Lyanna has to be a dark haired and dark eyed (Stark features) beauty.

      I mean we are talking Helen of Troy type beauty here…

      Lyanna Stark has grey eyes like Arya.

      I like this fan art, there is a definite resemblence between Lyanna and Maisie’s Arya.

      http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Lyanna_stark_by_riavel.jpg

      Robb Snow:
      Arthur,

      Emergency Awesome did a video a month or two ago about Lyanna and used a picture of Lily Collins from Mirror Mirror as his “stand in” whenever referring to her. Ever since then I can’t help but picture her when I read or think about Lyanna.

      Had no idea who Lily Collins was but when I looked she does have the whole eyebrow thing 😉 In this pic she and Maisie could be sisters

      http://marieclaire.media.ipcdigital.co.uk/11116/00007582c/fc8a_orh100000w440/Lily-Collins-garticle3.jpg

        Quote  Reply

    124. marsyao,

      None of them? Submissive Maester doesn’t sound like Kerwin to you? Legendary Fighter doesn’t sound like Arthur Dayne to you? Lord of Noble Northern House doesn’t sound like an Umber to you? The Outlaws don’t don’t sound like the Brotherhood to you?

        Quote  Reply

    125. Arthur,

      D&D don’t care about that kind of coordination, I don’t think. Just look at all the recasting they’ve done. If they don’t care about consistency in the actors playing Tommen, Myrcella, or Daario, why should they help out the showrunners for the next GRRM show by putting tons of effort into casting actors for a show they’re not even likely to be working on?

        Quote  Reply

    126. mariamb: I’m not a big fan of Randyll…for a variety of reasons.

      I have no memory of that, but given Sam’s descriptions of him, that hardly seems unsurprising! Kevan Lannister clearly considers Tarley to be a formidable individual, too: and that means all the more when you think about who Kevan uses as a formidable-meter!

      Jared: I had so hoped that the end Season 5 would finally kill off the incessant speculation about when Lady Stoneheart is going to turn up.

      Unfortunately, in one way, it could not. B&W do have a policy of introducing no character before his/her/it’s time. All of the “she’s so epic!” stuff aside, it is possible that LSH is important in Winter. I wish that we knew…..

        Quote  Reply

    127. Arthur:
      hexonx,

      That was awesome! Did you really make that?

      One of these days I am going to make my own GoT fan montage.

      Yeah, a couple years ago so it only has footage from seasons 1-2. I started to make a Joffrey one to The Ravonettes cover of The Stone Roses “I Wanna Be Adored”. But I didn’t have a very good video editor at the time and it was pretty time consuming. I have a better one now so I might start it again.

        Quote  Reply

    128. Does anyone know the name of the actress on the 3min mark of this Lyanna Stark video?

      IMO, that’s the dark beautiful features she would have to have!

        Quote  Reply

    129. Ginevra:
      KG,
      Thanks, KG.Is there a source for that?

      Nope. Just drawing conclusions from the in-book use of the word “House.” In the books, “house” isn’t used for a specific building; it indicates the entire family tree.

      However, you don’t have to be the head of your House to rule a stronghold. For example, Ned tells pre-injury Bran that someday he will rule a castle as Robb’s bannerman.

        Quote  Reply

    130. Sam,

      They care, but they are going to do what is best for the show no doubt.

      I am just saying, if HBO can pull the trigger on some kind of prequel series and start coordinating this with D&D, that would be really great, but I am probably just dreaming.

        Quote  Reply

    131. Deesensfan: Book readers starting to doubt Jon’s return worries me

      Well those of us that read the last book when it came out have had 4 years to speculate all the different ways Jon can come back. I don’t know too many book readers that don’t think he’s coming back in some form or another.

        Quote  Reply

    132. Tormund’s Woman: Note to Wimsey,: Northern Lords are important. And they have a voice!

      Well, what they do might well be important to the plot, but who they are is not that important. Much of the source of the debate has been whether it is important to include Manderly or the stuff that Manderly does. I say “no” to the former and “not yet, but possibly in the future” to the latter.

      However, we’ve known that Rickon is with a Northern Lord since the end of Season 3, haven’t we? So, we should expect the Umbers (or whichever house it was Osha went) to turn up this year or next.

      Our question should be: is that where Sansa and Theon will head, or will it be Davos going there? It’s Friday, so I’m leaning towards Sansa & Theon going there. (Tomorrow, I’ll lean towards them running into a Vale army, but I’ll be back to this view on Sunday.)

        Quote  Reply

    133. Sam:
      Arthur,

      D&D don’t care about that kind of coordination, I don’t think. Just look at all the recasting they’ve done. If they don’t care about consistency in the actors playing Tommen, Myrcella, or Daario, why should they help out the showrunners for the next GRRM show by putting tons of effort into casting actors for a show they’re not even likely to be working on?

      You do understand that GoT is quite possibly the show with the largest number of speaking parts in the history of television. And you think that something like 4 recast characters out of hundreds over 5 years betrays a lack of care about consistency? Really?

        Quote  Reply

    134. Pigeon,

      As i mentioned i’m a long time reader here and i’m pretty much aware of specific people and their opinions so out of all the commenters in wotw i’m not expecting YOU to agree with my thoughts and opinions

        Quote  Reply

    135. Arthur: I am just saying, if HBO can pull the trigger on some kind of prequel series and start coordinating this with D&D, that would be really great, but I am probably just dreaming.

      The problem with prequels is that the conclusion of the plot is written with a different story in mind. As such, most attempts to make prequels are storyless plot for the sake of plot. Very few viewers are going to care about the faux history of Westeros, so without a good story, it would not go over well.

      Mr Fixit: If the guy’s not an actor, what larger role could he possibly have? I’d say what we have is a flashback sequence.

      Obviously, it’s Syrio Forel with a new face. I mean, d’uh…..
      😀

        Quote  Reply

    136. hexonx,

      I think most of them were pretty sure he was coming back until those interviews came out after the finale. I mean story wise it would make so much sense and why include all this foreshadowing “he always comes back” and “kill the boy let the man be born” as well as hints to R+L=J if they didn’t mean something.
      But these book readers have had the doubts now mostly from the aforementioned interviews. Maybe D&D are planning to go with out that… I hope not and ithink that would be dumb, but who the eff knows anymore.

        Quote  Reply

    137. Queenofthrones:
      I wish d and d would stick to their guns and cut some of this fat.

      It would have been so easy just to have Sansa work with these lords last season but nooooooo woman locked in room abused so that awful male character can be “redeemed” is just so much more interesting that woman semi successfully navigating complex northern politics and saving her own damn self.#Stillbitter, #neveroverit.

      It wouldn’t have made sense for Sansa to work with the Northern lords. She knows nothing of Northern politics and very little of how to work in Southron politics. She’s a young, inexperienced teen who wouldn’t have added much to their plans since they likely already have Rickon, the heir to the North after Bran. She’s also a Lannister which is probably why none of the Northern lords seemed to care that she “married” Ramsay.

        Quote  Reply

    138. Maybe eight seasons isn’t a farfetched possibility after all.

      Holy crap at that new casting list. The GoT universe is supposed to be contracting, not expanding, as the story nears the end. This tale seems bigger than ever going into S6. No complaints, this speculation is exciting!

      Anyone think

      the show will reverse the Jaime-Brienne storyline, with Jaime encountering the BWB outlaws and luring Brienne south?

        Quote  Reply

    139. Sean C.: What did Sansa try or learn in Winterfell, pray tell? She never once attempted any sort of politicking or manipulation.

      Um, she most certainly did. It failed pretty miserably – trying to play politics with a psychopath rarely works out well – but she did not sit passively by and watch the sun rise and set (seemingly with wonderment at the regularity of it) for once.

      Bruce Lee movies come to mind here. In all three of those, his character would try to do something and get his butt totally kicked. Then he’d train like mad and kick butt in the finale. That is an extreme take on this sort of character cycle.

        Quote  Reply

    140. It looks like season 6 will be the most packed season yet. It seems that we will have all the following storylines:

      * Beyond The Wall: Bran, Hodor, Meera, Leaf, Three-eyed Raven
      * The Wall: Melisandre, Edd, Alliser,…
      * The Gift: Tormund, Wun-Wun
      * The North: Umbers, Rickon, Osha, Davos
      * Winterfell: Ramsay, Roose, Walda

      * The Vale: Littlefinger, Robin, Yohn Royce, …
      * The Riverlands: BwB (probably Thoros, Anguy, Gendry)
      * The Reach: Randyll Tarly & family
      * Oldtown: Sam, Gilly
      * Kings Landing: Cersei, Margaery, Tommen, Loras, Olenna, Qyburn, Gregor, Pycelle, Kevan, High Sparrow, Unella, Olyvar, Lancel, …
      * Dorne: Doran, Ellaria, Sand Snakes, Hotah
      * Iron Islands: Balon, Yara, Euron

      * Braavos: Arya, Jaqen, Waif, Mace, Tycho
      * Dothraki Sea: Dany
      * Meereen: Tyrion, Varys, Missandei, Kovarro, Grey Worm,

      * Jaime, Bronn, Trystane
      * Sansa, Theon
      * Brienne Pod
      * Daario, Jorah
      * Something with WW

      Possibly other storylines:

      * Riverrun
      * The Twins
      * Highgarden
      * Casterly Rock

      I begin to see why Stannis’ story needed the fastfoward. How are they possibly gonna end Game of Thrones in 7 seasons when so many storylines are still in play…

        Quote  Reply

    141. Esgred:
      Mormont,

      (and Sansa didn’t help a lot in this, even before the wedding she keeps yelling insults at him while Jeyne triggers his redemption calling him by his name, considering him a man, a very important point for his identity arc)

      ….Sansa called him “Theon” every single time she talked to him. She called him Theon when she first saw him in the kennels and after the wedding she goes all out to reinforce to him that he is, “Theon of House Greyjoy. Last surviving son of Balon Greyjoy, Lord of the Iron Islands.” Hell, she even goes so far as to call him her “brother” (i.e. “They weren’t ‘those boys’, they were Bran and Rickon. They were your brothers! You’ve known them since they were born.”)

      Also, I think its imperative to point out that Theon is dealing with the REAL Sansa Stark and not a fake Arya Stark. Why is that important? Because she is a living, breathing reminder of everything he was. He knows exactly who he is every time he looks at her. And with that recognition comes a whole heaping amount of guilt (shown when he first sees her walking in the courtyard and turns away to avoid her); and affection/caring. He cares for her already, so he doesn’t have to be “pushed” into helping her. And that caring is demonstrated when he tells her that he was trying to “help her” when he told Ramsay about the candle, and in the final scene where he saves her life.

      Speaking of which, I think people miss a lot of the nuances in dialogue in that finale scene. In the Hardhome episode when she asks him why he told Ramsay, he tells her told her because HE tried to escape once, and Ramsay strapped him to a cross and took off piece by piece. Fast-forward to “Mother’s Mercy” and you have a very brilliant way of connect these scenes and making his “transformation” back into Theon extremely realistic and powerful. What is the context of that scene? Sansa is trying to escape (er…light a candle to escape). When she is confronted with Theon and Myranda, Theon initially tells her to “listen” to Myranda and just go back to her room. But when Sansa says, “I know who Ramsay is, and I know what he’ll do to me…” (a direct callback to Theon telling her what happened to HIM when HE tried to escape (which is also why they focused on Theon after she said that)), it triggers not only his real identity, but also, his caring for her. He doesn’t want her to be hurt. So, when he sees Myranda about to hurt her (after she gives a speech about all the body parts she doesn’t need (ANOTHER reinforcement of Theon’s suffering))…he pushes her over. And when he hears that Ramsay is back, he grabs her to save her from the punishment he received when he tried to escape. It makes sense. That it didn’t happen exactly like the book doesn’t take away from the fact that it makes sense in the show.

      I bet if we watched all of the Winterfell scenes together, without other storylines or breaks, the whole thing would be very coherent and well done.

        Quote  Reply

    142. Deesensfan,

      Jon is definitely not permanently dead. The R+L=J reveal would be completely gratuitous otherwise. D&D and Kit technically aren’t lying when they say Jon is dead (though I do think Kit is bullshitting about not being in Season 6), but Melisandre encountered Beric and Thoros in Season 3 and returned to Castle Black before Jon’s death for a reason.

        Quote  Reply

    143. Wimsey: Um, she most certainly did.

      Yeah she did try to push him a bit about being a bastard and with Walda being pregnant, threatening his position. I though she was going to keep pushing him to try to get him to kill Walda and divide the Boltons but he shut that down pretty quickly.

        Quote  Reply

    144. Ravyn:
      What’s interesting to me reading these casting notices/speculations is to try and filter them through the lens of the saga’s finale. There isn’t much (if any) time left for stray subplots and divergences. As it is I wonder how they’re going to wrap up what they have in the air in just two more seasons. Everything now has to point to the finale, and figuring out how these news items fit into that, as opposed to serving fan wish lists, is fascinating.

      I’m not sure. GoT is known for it’s twists and turns. I mean halfway through Season 5 the path to the end game was Stannis getting the Throne, Jon getting the wildlings at Hardhome and coming back to the Wall and Dany coming from Meereen all in time for the White Walkers. I doubt the “endgame” will even be in view until the second half of Season 7. I mean look at Mad Men, it was on a COMPLETELY different path until the last few episodes.

        Quote  Reply

    145. Mr Fixit,

      Who is a paragon of knighthood?! He helped Rhaegar kidnap Lyanna and was one of the Kingsguard who stood by as Brandon and Rickard were burnt alive and the Mad King raped his wife/sister. I think I’m just hoping it’s not. A character of such prominence in the universe deserves more than being flashback fodder. His presence is not needed in the slightest to tell the story.
      Perhaps it’s Azor Ahai in a flashback? I just really don’t want them to do a rushed ToJ. Leave that for a Robert’s Rebellion prequel if that should ever happen.

        Quote  Reply

    146. Qhogo may be a tongue-in-cheek replacement for Qotho, killed in Season 1, but who Martin complained would return later in the novels.

        Quote  Reply

    147. Zalos,

      How could season 6 be “wind of winter” when GRRM himself has not finished this book? Oh wait, I forget GRRM gave a brief to D&d that is so detail that it cover the book 6 even before he put it on paper. I guess I am not a fan boy of the show

        Quote  Reply

    148. marsyao:
      Zalos,

      How could season 6 be “wind of winter” when GRRM himself has not finished this book? Oh wait, I forget GRRM gave a brief to D&d that is so detail that it cover the book 6 even before he put it on paper. I guess I am not a fan boy of the show

      Well, don’t watch it, if you’re not a fan.

        Quote  Reply

    149. Wimsey,

      The problem with prequels is that the conclusion of the plot is written with a different story in mind. As such, most attempts to make prequels are storyless plot for the sake of plot. Very few viewers are going to care about the faux history of Westeros, so without a good story, it would not go over well.

      HBO has found itself a nitch, an 8million first viewership nitch in TV land. There is nothing like GoT anywhere at the moment. There has got to be someway they can make some GoT related spinoff series to keep this HUGE following glued to their TV sets during Spring Sunday nights.

      I think it would be foolish for them not to try something, be it prequel, spinoff, something Westerosy.

      That is all I am saying. What are they going to do? Just disband us after GoT ends? They have a huge core adult fantasy following they built up. Like any smart cooperation will do, my guess is they will build upon it even if it means taking a risk of doing a prequel that, as you stated, in the past usually has gathered less interest.

        Quote  Reply

    150. It really feels like we’re getting 8 seasons rather than 7. Hopefully they can still keep this season interesting if that’s the case. It sounds good from this casting news.

        Quote  Reply

    151. hexonx,

      This.
      I thought it was fairly accepted in most regions that Lyanna ran off with Rhaegar of her own volition, but just not discussed in other regions for various reasons…..

        Quote  Reply

    152. Sean C.: The age is off for it to be the Greatjon. I would hope they word at least attempt to keep him in the same range as Clive Mantle; though with the two Daarios, perhaps not.

      The Smalljon or some other Umber son would be better.

      I agree, the age is off to be The Greatjon. If the Greatjon is recast, it will be someone close to Clive Mantle’s age, just as they did with the two Daarios. Well, they may not get that close, since the two Daarios are only one year apart (Skrein is 32, Huisman is 33).

      I’m definitely on the “OMG, Arthur Fucking Dayne” bandwagon. Sure, that description could fit someone else, but who would it fit more perfectly than Ser Arthur Dayne? Is there anyone currently alive who would fit that description?

        Quote  Reply

    153. Geralt of Rivia,

      I think it would make an incredible TV too! Ooooh, how that lines sound in my head!

      I do however suspect they will do it but will either make it smaller in scope (more like a duel between Ned and Ser Arthur Dayne with Howland coming in at the last minute for the save) or if we’re lucky with Ned, Howland on one side and Ser Arthur Dayne on the other and lots of extras (but with Ned vs Ser Arthur still one on one)

      I don’t mind the hype on this one. I just got a gut feeling I’m right. (my gut feeling never fails :p)

        Quote  Reply

    154. I often wonder whether Jon’s plot in DoD would have changed at all if

      it had been someone other than who he believed to be Arya held by Ramsay at Winterfell. Would he have behaved the same way if it was Bran, Rickon, Sansa? I suspect it’d be likely, but his bond with Arya was certainly a stronger one (indeed, Needle has been a bigger ‘character’ in the books and show than many of the human ones!) Of course, by the time he jumps ship, he obviously has found out that it isn’t Arya. Still…..

        Quote  Reply

    155. marsyao:
      Zalos,

      How could season 6 be “wind of winter” when GRRM himself has not finished this book? Oh wait, I forget GRRM gave a brief to D&d that is so detail that it cover the book 6 even before he put it on paper. I guess I am not a fan boy of the show

      So how can the show fail to be an “invention of D&D, and have nothing to do with GRRM’s novel”, as you complained earlier?

        Quote  Reply

    156. Robb Snow,

      Selmy talking about how Rhaegar was a good man in the same episode sansa hatefuly said that Rhaegar kidnaped and raped her and LF gave her a “You know nothing, Sansa” look….. to me Lyanna left with him voluntarily.

        Quote  Reply

    157. Darquemode,

      Littlefinger’s facial expression and silence after Sansa mentioned Rhaegar kidnapping and raping her aunt said it all to me. He knows the truth about them and might even know or at least have a suspicion about the “promise.”

      EDIT: Deesensfan beat me to it. 😛

        Quote  Reply

    158. http://io9.com/one-major-game-of-thrones-character-may-not-be-as-dead-1712452372

      Game Of Thrones

      Sources have told io9 that Kit Harington — whose character Jon Snow seemingly perished in the recent season finale — has been seen in Belfast with several other members of the cast. Belfast, of course, is home to much of the show’s filming for scenes set in the North and at The Wall. Production is already preparing to start on Game of Thrones’ sixth season, so our source speculates that Harington could be making appearances as Snow — either flashbacks, or scenes showing that he survived the seemingly fatal mutiny of the Night’s Watch.

        Quote  Reply

    159. Deesensfan: but how do we know they will reveal R+L=J

      I remember reading a comment saying GRRM once indicated Jon would learn who his mother was. Not sure if that’s true or not.

        Quote  Reply

    160. Hoyti Von Totiy,

      Game Of Thrones

      Sources have told io9 that Kit Harington — whose character Jon Snow seemingly perished in the recent season finale — has been seen in Belfast with several other members of the cast. Belfast, of course, is home to much of the show’s filming for scenes set in the North and at The Wall. Production is already preparing to start on Game of Thrones’ sixth season, so our source speculates that Harington could be making appearances as Snow — either flashbacks, or scenes showing that he survived the seemingly fatal mutiny of the Night’s Watch.

      Hahaha…

      I actually feel bad for D&D, they are doing their best to keep their season 5 finale’s final scene’s integrity…

      But they most know, with fans like us, its impossible to keep things from us. We have regulars that come to this site that I honestly think are real detectives. If there is any evidence of anything GoT related, they find it and post it!

      Of course they can just say he is there for his burial scene or something like that. But they got to know we know, but in their defense, the casual viewer CAN be tricked, just not us.

        Quote  Reply

    161. hexonx,

      I thought I remembered reading that as well, but I looked for a source a while back and did not find one… Maybe my memory is false and based on reading someone other than GRRM’s comments or maybe I missed the original link.

        Quote  Reply

    162. hexonx: Yeah she did try to push him a bit about being a bastard and with Walda being pregnant, threatening his position.I though she was going to keep pushing him to try to get him to kill Walda and divide the Boltons but he shut that down pretty quickly.

      I read a great commentary about that scene where the author frames these moments as “power struggles”. He/She (I don’t recall) says that rape is more of a psychological demonstration of power than a sexual desire, so Ramsay raping Sansa is his way of having power over the heir to the North. So then, when she calls him a bastard–an illegitimate heir to both his House and the North–it was her way of trying to get some power back and tip the scales in her favor (within this “power struggle”). Very interesting commentary. Made me look at the scene/interaction differently.

      Edit: …And to actually stay on topic (sorry), I’m super excited for the possibility of a Tower of Joy flashback. Combine that with the Children of the Forest/White Walkers flashback and Bran’s storyline might actually be the place to be this next season. Also, I think S6 picks up right where S5 left off. So, rather than using the first one or two episode to get everyone back up to speed, they’re just going to kick off with one of the cliffhangers.

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    163. Arthur,

      In a way they DID get a bit of success anyway….even if Jon comes blazing back in episode 1 of Season 6, and he’s caught filming tomorrow, they can still have the satisfaction of the agonized screams of despair heard around the world last Sunday night. LOL. 😉

        Quote  Reply

    164. Arthur,

      This is what boggles my mind
      Trying to end it on a cliffhanger that half their audience (bookreaders) have been dying to see resolved and have tons of theories for, and then trying to hide it – that’s gotta be almost impossible.
      And then theres nonbook readers like me that dissects every part of the show and has tons of theories as well
      I don’t know.

      Also, why did Kit say he wasn’t coming back Why didn’t he say I cant comment or I don’t know

        Quote  Reply

    165. Pigeon,

      Only nerds like us will actually know about Kit being seen on set. The overwhelming majority of Unsullied probably don’t keep up with the latest GOT news and will be genuinely surprised when Jon rises from the dead. Much audience applause will ensue.

        Quote  Reply

    166. Deesensfan,

      Hello everyone – Deesensfan, I think you mentioned on another thread rewatching all the seasons. I thought it was a great idea, and intended to rewatch Hardhome, then go back and start season one. Funny thing though, I couldn’t bear to start watching Hardhome – when it aired, I was enthralled with Jon’s part: the way he negotiated and explained, the way he fought and survived, the way he cared.

      Now I can’t watch it. What’s the sense. It was all for nothing. He’s dead, they’re saying dead and gone, that Kit is off the show, there will be no versions of Kit in any form. I can’t bear the idea of watching any of the episodes now. The effort he made, the correct decisions he made and then acted upon, for nothing. If they were going to kill him forever, they should have done it last year.

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    167. Ser Florian: marsyao

      There are more than one submissive Maester other than Kerwin, and what is point of Kerwin without Kingsmoot? There are more than one Legendary Fighter with a famous sword than Sword of morning, and what is point of tower of joy after “for the watch”? There are certainly more than one Lord of Noble Northern House than Umber, and what is the point of Umbers when Stannis is dead? and brotherhood go bad? Interesting.
      Does that prove D&D are creating their own stories and it has nothing to do with the novel other than some character and geography locations share the same name? So my point stands correct “none of these characters share any similarity with characters in the books”

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    168. hexonx: I remember reading a comment saying GRRM once indicated Jon would learn who his mother was. Not sure if that’s true or not.

      In that original outline from 1993, GRRM states this explicitly. Of course, he also had an Arya-Tyrion-Jon love triangle, so obviously some things have changed since then. 😉

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    169. Robb Snow,

      That is also very true
      I have a lot friends who are unsullied (I am unsullied too but im a nerd lol)
      Half of them think Jon is dead DEAD and are devastated but think GRRM is so cool for doing something so unexpected
      The other half think he is coming back because the “Gross red lady is magical” LOL

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    170. Deesensfan,

      The thing is, GRRM leaves hints. He hides these hints really well but with a million eyes looking and the huge amount of fan discussion, these subtle hints might as will just stand right out in the open.

      D&D knew this, and to throw us all into a panic they had to come out with some PR campaign in an effort to keep that last scenes integrity.

      It was the logical thing to do.

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    171. Darquemode:
      hexonx,

      I thought I remembered reading that as well, but I looked for a source a while back and did not find one… Maybe my memory is false and based on reading someone otherthan GRRM’s comments or maybe I missed the original link.

      Yeah, I don’t follow GRRM news much, I’ve seen and read a few interviews but that’s it. I rely on the comments section here as I know there are some that follow GRRM news closely. But it’s always hard to determine what is truth and what is bullshit.

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    172. Nice castings. No signs of Howland Reed yet,though.

      I like the idea of the Boltons getting booted out from within the north with Rickon as the Stark talisman rather than needing assistance from some southron king. Winterfell has seemed ridiculously empty. Where might the Vale troops come in? Taking out Frey’s on the way north?

      If Darkstar was going to show up why cast Ellaria in his role this season and then have to go to all the trouble of introducing a new character. Arthur Dayne it is. R+L=J will be gradually confirmed, apparently futilely given Jon’s situation, but then he will be brought back in the final scene. Personally, I think that scene has already been filmed. So neither Kit nor the show runners have actually lied, but have been ‘economical with the truth’.

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    173. Arthur,

      Yeah that’s true. I really hope its a PR stint.

      Thronetender,

      I know what you mean, I was thinking that last night and im like.. whats the point right now? and I was also thinking to start the books but I don’t know if should wait to see if jons back or not. To me the story gets ruined without him and the show without Kit being him.

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    174. Simeon: In that original outline from 1993, GRRM states this explicitly.Of course, he also had an Arya-Tyrion-Jon love triangle, so obviously some things have changed since then.

      Nice find/memory. Yeah, hard to rely on anything from that far back, unless he’s also said it elsewhere more recently.

        Quote  Reply

    175. Deesensfan: Also, why did Kit say he wasn’t coming back Why didn’t he say I cant comment or I don’t know

      Probably because saying “I can’t comment” is admitting that he’s coming back. Otherwise, why can’t he comment?

        Quote  Reply

    176. marsyao:
      Daughter of Winter,

      So you do admit I have a point, right?

      She’d be wrong if she did. One encounters on a lot of painful rubbish on this and other forums like it, but you really are going the extra mile in whining about the show being unfaithful to books which, on your own account, don’t even exist.

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    177. Deesensfan,

      If you start the books do yourself a favor and get the iTunes audio books and listen to it for an hour so so before bed.

      They guy who narrates it does every characters voice different, he is so awesome, he made it so much fun to listen to and I never had to guess who it was because his voice was different for each PoV character.

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    178. TheTouchOfFrost,

      “The finest knight I ever saw was Ser Arthur Dayne” Ned, to Bran. In ACoK.

      “They whispered of Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, deadliest of the seven knights of Aerys’s Kingsguard” Catelyn. In AGoT.

      “At five-and-ten, Ser Jaime Lannister was already a Knight – an honour he had received from the hand of Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, whom many considered to be the Realm’s most chivalrous warrior.” Aerys II section of TWoIaF.

      Seems like he was considered as a paragon of knighthood to me. You say he isn’t needed to tell the story, but we don’t know what the story is… mayhaps he is needed, and the Tower of Joy is needed, to tell the story.

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    179. Pigeon:
      RosanaZugey,

      It was Sansa’s best moment this season, imo. You could just see plain as day how much it hit him, despite how quickly he seemed to recover. Ouch!

      Oh yeah! Thumbs UP!! I was fist-pumping over here. And even more so considering the fact that this interaction came on the heels of her confessing that he basically rapes and abuses her every night. Even after all of that, the woman wasn’t afraid to call him out and hit him where she knows it hurts him most. That’s where I see the character development. It might not have been the exact way I wanted (manipulating everyone) or in the context I wanted (politicking) but it shows growth. I don’t think “previous” Sansa would have taken the chance of grievously wounding the ego’s of her captors.

        Quote  Reply

    180. Deesensfan:
      Arthur,

      Yeah that’s true. I really hope its a PR stint.

      Thronetender,

      I know what you mean, I was thinking that last night and im like.. whats the point right now? and I was also thinking to start the books but I don’t know if should wait to see if jons back or not. To me the story gets ruined without him and the show without Kit being him.

      I was composing my mournful post just as the hopeful posts about him being seen in Belfast showed up. So, I’m not quite so mopey now. I won’t fully abandon my mournfulness (is that a word?) just yet, in order to keep up my defenses.

      Aside from all the other clues I’ve read that seem to point to his return, there might be a bit of hope clinging to one I haven’t seen mentioned too much, which is Tyrion’s mention of Thoros of Myr, while he and Varys were in Volantis. Thoros brought back Dondarrion 6 times. Why include that mention in a script where every word and minute of screen time is precious, unless it meant something, right? Right? Ye gods, I can’t believe I’m like this.

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    181. Please the Seven, let them be casting different Umbers and not recasting the Greatjon!!! Why they had to recast Myrcella for that minimal bit of nothing; how pointless! Tommen went from an preschooler in the pilot to older looking than Arya

      UNRELATED TO CASTING: Everyone is entitled to their own opinion… so if you love D&D’s version, you’re not wrong.

      But IMO, D&D really absolutely screwed up season 5 so poorly, how can we look forward to the final 2 seasons?

      They can still create “moments” like the incredible Hardhome… but they’ve lost the handle on the overall story, pacing and tone of their story.

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    182. Sundancer,

      You know, I was thinking, does that even matter if they were married because didn’t Rhaegar get killed 1st, before the Mad King?

      So If Rhaegar is already dead, then the Mad King dies, that would then make Dany’s beggar brother the rightful king, but then he died, so it would go to Dany?

      I could be wrong please correct me if I am.

        Quote  Reply

    183. This might be off-topic a bit, but since it seems they are casting Sam Tarley’s family, it’s not too bad: I know that by joining the Nights Watch he gives up his lordship in favor of his younger brother, so he’s no longer a lord by law, only by blood. But are all the sons of a lord lords as well? Osha used to call Bran “Little Lord” all the time. I guess I’m asking if all the children, even the younger ones, born to a lord are automatically lords and ladies? Is there any way Sam could be released fro NW vows to become a lord again?

      After all this time I thought I would know, but I don’t.

        Quote  Reply

    184. Arthur,

      Everyone seems to have a different take on the way succession works in GoT. I think the point of Jon being Rhaegar’s son has more to do with what it means for the battle against the White Walkers and not his rightful claim to the Crown, which may no longer be there by the time the series concludes.

        Quote  Reply

    185. Arthur,

      If the son of the king dies first, the heir to the throne becomes the son’s son, i.e. the current king’s grandson. Therefore, after Rhaegar’s death, his son Aegon was the Mad King’s heir.

        Quote  Reply

    186. Arthur,

      You’re wrong. Rhaegar’s son Aegon would have come before Viserys, and if Rhaegar married Lyanna, any legitimate son of theirs would have come after Aegon, and before Viserys.

      If Prince Charles (the current heir to the British throne) dies tomorrow, and the Queen dies the day after, Prince William (Charles’ oldest son) becomes King, not Prince Andrew (Charles’ oldest brother).

        Quote  Reply

    187. Deesensfan,

      Okay thanks for explaining, I was under the impression you had to actual BE a king before you pass on that title to a son, so if Rhaegar died before the Mad King, he would have never obtained that “King” title so why would any of his sons then get it…

      But I guess it doesn’t matter, from the logic you stated, The Mad King can die after Rhaegar, and if Rhaegar had 3 sons, all of whom have also died, and one of them had a son, HE would be more entitled to the throne then Viserys.

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    188. SerCountryFriedSteak: D&D really absolutely screwed up season 5 so poorly, how can we look forward to the final 2 seasons?

      Look, to each their own and all the obvious verbiage… But to ask how we can look forward to the final seasons is a bit self-involved, don’t you think? I for one look forward to season 6 and beyond with excitement and I doubt I’m the only one.

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    189. ‘Father’ could be Ned Stark’s father, if we’re going the flashback route. But mostly I’m just excited they’re looking for the best swordsman in Europe.

        Quote  Reply

    190. Arthur,

      Thank Mr Fixit and Ser Florian 😉
      Hahaha but you know I don’t know if we would see a resurrected Jon on the throne.
      I wonder how it would play out if he gets to that point and meets up with Dany who thinks she has rights to the throne also. My two faves against each other! LOL

        Quote  Reply

    191. Season 5 stumbled in some places but it was rock solid for the most part. The people who seem to complain the most are book purists and action junkies, and the former would’ve hated it no matter what. You have only to look at Westeros.org and its infamous webmasters to see that.

        Quote  Reply

    192. Robb Snow,

      These people should really stop watching the show… like why watch if you don’t like it?

      I just saw on twitter that someone asked Linda and Elio if they were doing a season recap video or if they were to mad too do one” LIKE SERIOUSLY why do you watch??
      I tweeted back asked why do you watch if you don’t like it ??

        Quote  Reply

    193. House Baggins,

      Except he is not legendary. In the books it is clear that there is one swordsman who stood above the rest and that is Dayne. There is no ambiguity. Maybe the individual responsible for the description messed up, but in context of the book only one person meets that description. What other people are listing are capable fighters, not legendary fighters.

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    194. Ravyn:
      Arthur,

      Is GRRM signed with HBO to do more Westeros stuff? I thought the series he was working was set in the 50s.

      I believe he has three potential shows on the go at the moment (he mentions HBO and Cinemax). One is Captain Cosmos (set in the late 1940’s).

      We know he did discuss a Dunk and Egg series with HBO but it’s unknown if this is one of the ongoing projects.

        Quote  Reply

    195. Deesensfan,

      I think Jon is Azor Ahai and he will have to plunge his reforged sword into a willing Dany’s chest to create Lightbringer and save the realm.

      It will be ironic because Dany never knew her home really, will fight her whole life to take it back, just get there and then have to sacrifice herself to save a kingdom she loves but never really got to be a part of. Jon is also a reject of the realm, killed by his brothers but will also sacrifice himself to save the realm that also showed him no love.

      There will be a lot more to it then that, but that’s my honest guess to the big endgame.

        Quote  Reply

    196. Arthur:
      Does anyone know the name of the actress on the 3min mark of this Lyanna Stark video?

      IMO, that’s the dark beautiful features she would have to have!

      That looks like a clip from the show Reign on the CW network.

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    197. OMG, what if Eddard actually didn’t kill Ser Arthur Dayne? He is probably dead, but, what if they set up his death, for any reason, and he is still alive? By the way, it just came to my mind… His sword, Dawn, is said to be bright and made of a fallen star. What if, what if… Lightbringer? Azor Ahai’s sword? What if Dawn and Lightbringer are the same sword, and “the prince that was promised” is actually the prince who is going to reclaim Dawn? I’m not sure about this, it just came to my mind.

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    198. Robb Snow,

      There is nothing those people at westeros.org can tell us to illuminate matters, and GRRM is embarrassing himself by being in association with those people. The fact that the has failed to repudiate them is a big mark on his character.

        Quote  Reply

    199. Ser Arthur Dayne could fit the description but I’m not convinced,I mean Lyanna and Ned would be crucial there,no casting calls for someone like them.Or any other knights involved.
      Someone that fits the description exactly could be Azor Ahai fighting the Others.It’s spot on to the casting call.I could see this happening.

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    200. hexonx,

      Robb Snow,

      Ned had respect for Robert who wasn’t exactly the greatest bloke about! Either way, she was betrothed and he was already married so it was an unhonourable thing to do for someone meant to be honourable. These is why I enjoy the Kingsguard stuff. Honour versus morality. Jaime being the prime example of being a man without honour and betraying his brothers in the Kingsguard yet him being the only one who questioned and struggled with what the Mad King did and ultimately did something to stop him.

      Ser Florian,

      Not arguing that that is the way he’s seen. How important to the plot is he if he’s being featured in a flashback scene. If you can concoct a scenario where anything but Lyanna and Ned’s conversation at the ToJ is relevant to what’s going on in the show then I’d be interested to hear it.

        Quote  Reply

    201. Hoyti Von Totiy: Sources have told io9 that Kit Harington — whose character Jon Snow seemingly perished in the recent season finale — has been seen in Belfast with several other members of the cast. Belfast, of course, is home to much of the show’s filming for scenes set in the North and at The Wall. Production is already preparing to start on Game of Thrones’ sixth season, so our source speculates that Harington could be making appearances as Snow — either flashbacks, or scenes showing that he survived the seemingly fatal mutiny of the Night’s Watch.

      Randos on Reddit have been posting this for the last week. We don’t need top secret sources to know Kit’s been in Belfast occasionally- someone posted a pic of him hanging out with Rose, which indicates their on-off thing is on again. Thing is, the show doesn’t start production until on season 6 until late July so cast won’t be arriving to film S6 until then.

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    202. RosanaZugey,

      I won’t be able to stop if i start talking about brilliance of sansa’s arc in season 5 just one point about that last scene : what theon did was guaranteed by sansa herself in every chance she got to talk with him she tried to push him out of his reek shell even that last line ( if i’m going to die…) was referred to him so her efforts finally worked.
      Honestly there is so much to talk about regarding her storyline in this season maybe later in other threads

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    203. I think they will show Jon Snow’s birth at the Tower of Joy and the Legendary Swordsman is Arthur Dayne.

      Here’s hoping we’ll see Sean Bean as Ned once more.

        Quote  Reply

    204. Re: Kit

      I think the best that D&D could hope for is to make even the book-readers start to have doubts about Jon returning. It seems that they are having some success in that department.

      In my mind, there has been too much ground work laid throughout the show in regards to the popular theory about Jon Snow’s role in the story at large to have him just be completely removed from it at this point. I can’t believe that they would waste so much precious screen time only to leave a dump truck load of loose ends.

      Despite GRRM’s attempt to create “anti-heroic” fiction, there has to be some positive payoff coming down the road, and not just an endless stream of downer endings (Sansa?) or you risk alienating even your most hardcore fans. George said that “THE ending” would be “bittersweet”, which I imagine is not too unlike JRRT’s LotR (something that Peter Jackson’s movies didn’t quite fully capture IMHO), but there was still plenty to cheer for by the time RotK was winding down.

      That’s my take, anyways.

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    205. Deesensfan,

      He would probably have to go on some suicide mission to kill the Night’s King or whatever supernatural thing that is the head of the snake of the Others

      This is GoT, there isn’t going to be a happy ending but I bet it’ll be a satisfying one.

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    206. TheTouchOfFrost: it was an unhonourable thing to do for someone meant to be honourable.

      For Rhaegar maybe, not Dayne. We don’t know what his thoughts were on the matter, he may have been against it.

        Quote  Reply

    207. The Bull,

      Thanks, you are right, she is another Lynna Stark looking IMO actress and she is still young (26).

      Her name is Adelaide Kane, HBO should contact her agents lol =)

        Quote  Reply

    208. So the outlaws are the Bloody Mummers in reverse, sort of? The Mummers were burning down septs and killing septons, but these new outlaws are doing stuff in the name of religion? The famous knight with a famous sword is basically a direct quote from AFfC about Arthur Dayne, so a flashback…. it’d be interesting if Sean Bean could come back. I suppose if the CGI they’d have to use looked good enough and wasn’t too budget breaking?

      Kind of bummed there is no obvious Manderly casting, but perhaps they don’t care if they cast him fat, the second northern lord may be him.

      I’d have loved to have seen Lady Dustin, but as she only really interacts with Theon, who’s story has gone beyond that point on the show, I always knew it was a pipe dream.

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    209. TheTouchOfFrost,

      The Kingsguard are honor-bound to do as their king (or prince in this case) commands, no matter how “dishonorable” it might seem. Jaime rightly broke this vow to save thousands, but in spite of that Ned has nothing but disdain for him for doing what he did.

      Conversely, Ned calls Arthur Dayne one of the finest knights he ever knew. So why would he hold Dayne in such high regard even after “kidnapping” his sister while showing nothing but contempt for Jaime?

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    210. The Lord of a Norther Stronghold might be the surviving Lord Cerwyn whose parents were flayed by Ramsey this season. He is a vassal of Winterfell and has a well established reason to be ‘upset’ with the Boltons. I expect a number of the Lord we have already met from the north will also come back to plot together.

      The housemaid/nanny may be an aged Wylla who was with Lyanna as her personal maid all along but was left in the care of the Daynes at Starfall by Ned to keep her from being questioned by those at Winterfell.

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    211. I had an idea about the Warrior swordsman…
      Could it be Daemon Blackfyre?

      He was a great swordsman with arguably the most famous Valyrian Steel blade in Blackfyre. If they introduce him it would be a connection to Bloodraven and the Great Bastards. It could make for a very important flashback depending on how the next two books/ two seasons pan out…

      On the negative side, He was VERY Targaryen so the idea they would cast any ethnicity seems a bit odd….

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    212. hexonx,

      That’s why i believe sansa is the most misunderstood character in the story why she would want that innocent woman killed?

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    213. Alex,

      How on earth would that work if you’re talking about the ToJ?!

      hexonx,

      Either way, it was still a stain on his honour.

      Robb Snow,

      Because, quite honestly, Ned is a bit of an idiot! Nice guy but an idiot none-the-less. Not entirely sure why he jumped on Jaime so quickly when he forgave both Dayne and Selmy for fighting on the other side. The Starks and Lannisters never had any
      animosity towards eachother until this point ( except perhaps that Cersei was rejected by Rhaegar and Lyanna wasn’t but he’s already married Elia before that). Ned’s assumptions and unwillingness to look into what happened again proves what a dangerous tool for ignorance honour can be.

        Quote  Reply

    214. Darquemode,

      Don’t think they’d go into that much detail to be honest. Bloodraven was the last person known to have Dark Sister so maybe a flashback with him in but again not sure of the relevance and he’s not really reknowned as a legendary swordsman.

        Quote  Reply

    215. Wimsey: Well, what they do might well be important to the plot, but who they are is not that important. Much of the source of the debate has been whether it is important to include Manderly or the stuff that Manderly does. I say “no” to the former and “not yet, but possibly in the future” to the latter.

      Yes, well.. As it is now established there seems to be no might about it, Wimsey! What they do is important to the plot or they would not do calling casts for Northern Lords. Give me an I, a M, a P, an O, a R, a T, an A, a N, a T!

      Wimsey
      However, we’ve known that Rickon is with a Northern Lord since the end of Season 3, haven’t we? So, we should expect the Umbers (or whichever house it was Osha went) to turn up this year or next.
      Our question should be: is that where Sansa and Theon will head, or will it be Davos going there?It’s Friday, so I’m leaning towards Sansa & Theon going there.(Tomorrow, I’ll lean towards them running into a Vale army, but I’ll be back to this view on Sunday.)

      You and I remember Budapest very differently…

      Part of the book argument back then, was that Northern Lords as a group was important and becoming a stronger voice (you hated protagonist vis a vis Rickon, because it’s not in the “in the box” definition) than the Stark they are looking for to put in Winterfell.

      Strangely enough I think Benioff and Weiss sensed that and unknowingly agreed with me. Because instead of them looking for Rickon (the non-developed 6 yr old Stark character with no qualities to root for) or accepting the second string impersonation of Arya Stark in Jayne Pool they have decided to give then a real protagonist instead: Sansa Stark. The real, genuine article. I think I got one right at least!

      And since it is Friday, and I like your idea better, I think Sansa & Theon will meet with Davos and this is how he will look for Rickon while the Northern Lords will search for Sansa. Tomorrow we can do a switch.

      Speculation at it’s best on the adaptation of a bulletpoint outline. Welcome to my world, Wimsey!!!

        Quote  Reply

    216. TheTouchOfFrost:

      Because, quite honestly, Ned is a bit of an idiot! Nice guy but an idiot none-the-less. Not entirely sure why he jumped on Jaime so quickly when he forgave both Dayne and Selmy for fighting on the other side.

      That’s the thing with honour and how it can seem (and is) crazy to the modern reader. In Ned’s eyes, Barristan and Arthur Dayne kept their Kingsguard vows and fought for their king until the bitter end. They deserved respect and admiration because of it. That it was the Mad King they fought for didn’t matter to Ned. Jaime, however, betrayed the king he was sworn to protect and broke the White Cloaks’ most sacred vows.

      To an honourable man, keeping vows is the most important thing there is. It wasn’t only Ned that looked down upon Jaime; pretty much every honourable man in the Seven Kingdoms thought of him as an oathbreaker and a generally untrustworthy guy. That’s just how it is in these sorts of honour-based social systems.

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    217. Yaaas!!! The show was starting to make me doubt myself on the importance of the northern houses and the possibility of a plan to take back Winterfell. But now, I feel so much better!

      And how great would it be if the season cold opened on TOJ and the reveal of Jon’s parentage? The cat’s out of the bag on that anyway. No need to save it. It would open the season with a bang and give us hope for Jon, making the potentially long wait for his return more bearable.

      Speaking of Rose Leslie, I just saw her in Honeymoon. It was really good. I recommend it. It’s one of those rare horror movies that manages to be scary and suspenseful despite the fact that you can figure out the mystery pretty much right away.

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    218. Wimsey: Um, she most certainly did.It failed pretty miserably – trying to play politics with a psychopath rarely works out well – but she did not sit passively by and watch the sun rise and set (seemingly with wonderment at the regularity of it) for once.

      Nope, that’s exactly what she did. She never attempted any politicking or manipulation of anyone. The only thing she tried to do all season was escape, and both of those attempts failed for reasons that didn’t have anything to do with her, so there’s nothing she can learn from it (nor, in one case, does she even know why it failed).

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    219. Sundancer:
      João Victor,

      They need to show that R and L married, or else isn’t Jon a Blackfyre without a legitimate claim to the Iron Throne? Did Targs have multiple wives?

      How would Jon be a Blackfyre?

      Targaryen Bastards are not called Blackfyre’s that is a name that one particular Bastard took for his own (after the sword his Father the King gave him) and his descendants carried it on as their House name.

      In Westeros Targ Bastards were usually named like most bastards with the names Rivers, Sand, Snow Waters etc…

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    220. TheTouchOfFrost,

      You could be right….
      I thought of Bloodraven telling some of history to Bran.
      I’ve always felt the great Bastards were going to be more important to the story than simple historic characters and that there will be more bastards than just Jon (assuming he is L+R=J) that figure into the endgame.

      Plus, Daemon loved Daenerys I and that love started the Blackfyre Rebellion…
      It feels a lot like Rhaegar loving Lyanna and that love starting the Robert’s Rebellion. I think it could fit in flashbacks adding layers of connection to the current state of politic affairs or maybe as a past is prologue type warning maybe.

      That said, I’m not sold on the idea either because of the ethnicity listed in the leak and with the streamlining of the story on the series who knows what book details will pop up on the series.

        Quote  Reply

    221. marsyao,

      You’re so cool bro!!!
      Seriously why keep watching a show that constantly insult your precious books? i’m sorry but the only proper answer i can think of is masochism

        Quote  Reply

    222. RosanaZugey:
      That’s where I see the character development. It might not have been the exact way I wanted (manipulating everyone) or in the context I wanted (politicking) but it shows growth. I don’t think “previous” Sansa would have taken the chance of grievously wounding the ego’s of her captors.

      The reason Sansa didn’t insult Joffrey openly was not for lack of courage, it’s because it’s a ridiculously stupid thing to do.

      When the “Walda baby” plot point was introduced, a bunch of people were convinced she was going to use this to manipulate Ramsay, but no, all it was was so that she could insult him and thus look “cool” even though she’s completely powerless and ineffectual (which seems to have been their whole strategy for Sansa this season; put her in a cool black dress and people will be tricked into thinking she’s empowered even though her role has not changed at all).

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    223. Damn, I was hoping we’d be seeing The Tower of Joy in a Robert’s Rebellion series 🙁

      I just hope and pray that Neil Marshall is directing that episode.

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    224. marsyao:
      Sergei Walankov,

      Well, I guess it is because I am a fan of GRRM, I am no fan of D&D

      Being fans of Martin and being fans of D&D are not mutually exclusive. You’ll find many, many posters around here who are fans of both.

      Abyss: Look, to each their own and all the obvious verbiage… But to ask how we can look forward to the final seasons is a bit self-involved, don’t you think? I for one look forward to season 6 and beyond with excitement and I doubt I’m the only one.

      You’re not anywhere close to the only one.
      Nice to see you posting, again, btw. 🙂

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    225. Arthur:
      Sundancer,

      You know, I was thinking, does that even matter if they were married because didn’t Rhaegar get killed 1st, before the Mad King?

      So If Rhaegar is already dead, then the Mad King dies, that would then make Dany’s beggar brother the rightful king, but then he died, so it would go to Dany?

      I could be wrong please correct me if I am.

      The line of succession doesn’t change depending on order of death. A crowned prince’s legitimate earliest-born son (or child, depending on the monarchy rules) becomes the crowned prince when his father dies. Prince George is third in line, after Prince William and Prince Charles, for the throne, and Princess Charlotte is fourth in line. Prince Harry if fifth, and Prince Andrew is sixth.

      Edit: Oops. Lots have already said something similar.

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    226. Daughter of Winter:
      RosanaZugey,

      I won’t be able to stop if i start talkingabout brilliance of sansa’s arc in season 5 just one point about that last scene : what theon did was guaranteed by sansa herself in every chance she got to talk with him she tried to push him out of his reek shell even that last line ( if i’m going to die…) was referred to him so her efforts finally worked.
      Honestly there is so much to talk about regarding her storyline in this season maybe later in other threads

      Oh man, I’m all for hearing anything and everything you have to say about Sansa’s arc. 🙂 Its incredibly interesting, and I think when we lay down our expectations and/or disappointments about what we think “should” have happened, we’ll see that it wasn’t actually a bad arc. But you’re probably right…not in this thread. Perhaps they should start threads for each character and just let us speculate and discuss away. 🙂

      Anywho, whenever you write that thesis on Sansa’s S5 arc, let me know. I look forward to reading it. 🙂

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    227. Keep in mind that some characters may have been cast already, without the need for a casting call. If they know who they want, the role can be offered and accepted without publicity. So I wouldn’t assume a character has been cut because there’s no casting call. For instance they might have already cast Howland Reed, or Victarion Greyjoy, or Maester Marwyn etc, so no need to look further.

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    228. Arthur,

      Actually, I hope that Jon will plunge the sword into Melisandre’s chest. In the books, Jon Snow has a dream that he plunges the sword into Ygritte, but he never does that in the books before she dies and is burned. So I’m hoping that he confused the gingers in the dream, even though Show!Mel and Show!Ygritte look nothing alike. A girl can dream, though.

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    229. I would’ve liked to see Sansa pit Ramsay against his father via Walda’s pregnancy, but I guess they just wanted to get Sansa in and out of Winterfell ASAP. Her time with the Boltons will come back into play later though I hope, as the motivating force behind the dagger she drives into Littlefinger’s heart. I honestly feel like the “Red Bedding” and the other abuse she’s received by Ramsay will lead to that moment. Then with the last man trying to use her as a tool out of the way she can truly take control of her own destiny (I hope).

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    230. Arthur,

      I always felt that

      if anyone was going to plunge his sword through Dany’s heart like Azor Ahai it would be Jorah. I can see her as his true love…. I’m not sure I will be able to see Dany as Jon’s true love since that was Ygritte.

      I don’t see that happening though since Jorah has Connington’s Greyscale on the show….

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    231. Robb Snow:
      Her time with the Boltons will come back into play later though I hope, as the motivating force behind the dagger she drives into Littlefinger’s heart. I honestly feel like the “Red Bedding” and the other abuse she’s received by Ramsay will lead to that moment.

      The writers have gone out of their way to completely absolve Littlefinger of responsibility for that, so I doubt it.

      And it doesn’t make any sense to have that be the thing that turns Littlefinger against Sansa, instead of his numerous actual crimes against her and her family.

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    232. Dandelion,

      I think a Robert’s Rebellion series would be tough to do. Especially, since it features so many characters we have already met in GoT.

      I do see an animated series based in Westeros way down the line, so perhaps then? Dunk and Egg is a more likely candidate for the first GoT spinoff.

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    233. Deesensfan,

      Also, why did Kit say he wasn’t coming back Why didn’t he say I cant comment or I don’t know

      I think they were really quite clever in a sneaky way with that Kit interview, that interview was done at the end of December or at the start of January. Why would you release such an old interview about such a pivotal subject? They are obviously trying to mislead people here. At the time when they did this interview the scripts for season 6 wasn’t even written yet, so it could actually be very likely that Kit might have thought at that stage that he would not return. They dont receive their plots ahead of time, so you can only comment on what you know at that stage. At that stage the official standing was properly just that Jon Snow is dead.

      Just for practical reasons I think it would be strange if they actually just left Kit Harington out of this season. He is one of their top billed actors, they actually invented plot lines for Sansa, Jaime and Brienne so that Sophie Turner, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau and Gwendoline Christie could be kept around for adequate screen time. The actors properly have certain minimum requirements in their contracts. It would be a bit silly if they had to pay Kit Harington for doing nothing in season 6 if he is actually suppose to return in season 7, and Kit Harington has clearly been walking around in his usual Jon Snow hair and beard.

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    234. Please don’t make a GOT spinoff. Poor Linda from Westeros is already heartbroken. I think more adaptations will just finish her off…

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    235. Some of my musings on the two Northern Lords

      I’m thinking the two Lords of the North could be Mors (Crow Food) Umber and Hother (Whorsebane Umber).

      In fact, they could combine one of them with Manderley (whichever one is in the “inside” at Winterfell with the Boltons) insofar as I think both Manderley and Umber have lost relatives to the Freys/Boltons and both have a relative in captivity preventing them from openly fighting the Boltons but whose release would free them up to come out into the open.

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    236. Sean C.,

      You mean turn Sansa against Littlefinger? Littlefinger lied to her about the Boltons and abandoned her to their unspeakable torments. I’d hold a grudge against Littlefinger for that if I was her. He needs to be held accountable for his role in the horrible things she went through.

      Also I don’t think Sansa knows about Littlefinger’s role in the death of her father if that’s what you’re referring too. As far as she knew he’s still in love with her mother and is sympathetic to her own plight as the “last” Stark if nothing else.

      Furthermore he turned out to be wrong about Stannis so that’s something else to hold against Littlefinger. He lied to her about pretty much everything and left her to suffer. It’d be foolish for the writers not to factor all of that in during future interactions between her and Littlefinger.

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    237. HEY SUE!!!!!

      You know what we need? A by-the-season casting list. You could put a icon right at the top with the other items; Home, Forums, etc.

      I love the reporting you all do here, but don’t necessarily want to click back through every casting post for the season when I have a question. Having it all on one page would sure be handy.

      Just food for thought. Luv you guys and gals.

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    238. Robb Snow:
      Littlefinger lied to her about the Boltons

      Furthermore he turned out to be wrong about Stannis so that’s something else to hold against Littlefinger. He lied to her about pretty much everything and left her to suffer.

      No, he didn’t lie to her about the Boltons. Again, the writers were explicit that he didn’t know anything about Ramsay’s predilections, and they said it was because Ramsay keeps a low profile.

      And the ‘plan’, such as it was, that Littlefinger gave her had options for what would happen if Stannis lost. He never said Stannis absolutely would win, but that the odds favoured him (which they did; he was correct there).

      I didn’t mean that she already knows what Littlefinger has done to her family. But she will learn that, at some point, count on it.

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    239. Sean C.: The reason Sansa didn’t insult Joffrey openly was not for lack of courage, it’s because it’s a ridiculously stupid thing to do.

      When the “Walda baby” plot point was introduced, a bunch of people were convinced she was going to use this to manipulate Ramsay, but no, all it was was so that she could insult him and thus look “cool” even though she’s completely powerless and ineffectual (which seems to have been their whole strategy for Sansa this season; put her in a cool black dress and people will be tricked into thinking she’s empowered even though her role has not changed at all).

      So, I’ve been FEELING YOU this whole time. I’ve been downright disheartened at what I initially percieved to be a complete f-up of Sansa’s character and her entire storyline (particularly when it comes to her not manipulating anyone or playing “politics”). But then I thought (just today, actually), what if we have it all wrong? We’re ASSUMING that her destiny (lol…I almost wrote ‘density’. Back to the Future, anyone? ;)) is to be some great manipulating power player, but what if that is not her arc at all? That’s LF’s character that we seem to be projecting onto Sansa. But being close to and “taught by” LF won’t make her LF anymore than being close to and “taught” by Cersei makes her Cersei 2.0. Sansa is unique (and frustrating) in that she retains a lot of her “innocence” and compassion. She still feels things deeply and she still feels for people deeply. It is who she is. That defines her more than any “manipulating” characteristic.

      I think this season completed all the ways she could “feel” for people and identify with their pain and struggles. She already knew loss, scorn, mental abuse and humilation. Now she understands–in the flesh–sexual abuse and the depravity that humanity can sink too. And I think it’ll end up being the understanding of those things–and being able to relate to people on those levels–that will ultimately make her a good ruler (whether she rules the North or the IT); not her ability to “manipulate” people. If you take Varys’ speech about what would make a good ruler (in S5E1), and think of Sansa instead of Daenerys…you’ll have a good ruler in Sansa.

      Speaking of Daenerys, I’ve always considered the fact that she was essentially sold off (against her will) to Drogo to be the genesis of why she’s against slavery, and why she has so much compassion for slaves (a characteristic that has laid a lot of the foundation for why people thought/think she’ll be a good ruler for Westeros). Her experiencing that shaped her entire arc. Perhaps they’re trying to accomplish the same thing with Sansa now.

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    240. Ace of Mace:
      Please don’t make a GOT spinoff. Poor Linda from Westeros is already heartbroken. I think more adaptations will just finish her off…

      Wait….what? You don’t want a history of Westeros as told by the Evil Queen Lindaaaaaa? I just hope and pray Lords Elmo and Kermit get their fair amount if screen time. o_O

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    241. Turncloak:
      Mr Fixit,

      Someone has not seen Snow White and the Huntsman. It’s really not that difficult to make a 50 year old look like a 20 year old thanks to the advances in makeup

      Furthermore, I didn’t hear anyone complain about the makeup that Breaking Bad used on Bryan Cranston and Giancarlo Esposito to play 1980s versions of Walt and Gus, even though it was pretty ridiculous-looking and unconvincing. It’s called “suspension of disbelief.”

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    242. Sean C.,

      Ah, I didn’t know the writers said that (I actually thought Littlefinger might be lying about that at first), and forgot the other part he mentioned about odds. Thanks for refreshing my memory on that.

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    243. Darquemode,

      Jorah will defy everyone’s expectations and survive the whole damn series because that’s how it all works out in my head. 😉 Eventually he’ll just say “That’s it, I’ve had enough of this crap”, cut through everyone in his path like a boss, and Dany will realize that Drogon is a dragon built for 2. Or he’ll do like you said.

      *puts fingers in ears and sings loudly*

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    244. hexonx: Count me as another one.

      I’m so excited to finally see what happens to Jon and to see how Ramsey dies. Man, reaching the end of ADWD was brutal!

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    245. Darkstar,

      If you scroll to the bottom of the article, under the Facebook/Tweet/Reddit buttons, there are the tags for the article. Clicking one of those will take you to all the articles with that tag. It’s not the best… for example, there’s no link to the “casting” tag on the front page, you have to find an article with that tag and click it, and tagging doesn’t seem to be the most consistent of things (“casting call” tag has this article, and no others, “casting” has this and the previous S6 casting article, along with previous seasons… but I notice there’s no casting speculation articles, or the article about the COTF casting announcement from a few weeks ago under “casting”, but they are under “Casting”).

      Not the best, but it’s a start at least, if you’re looking for all the casting articles, say.

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    246. Pigeon,

      Ha! XD
      I feel you.. I have similar wishes for Jaime to survive the series, but… who knows.

      I personally wondered if Jorah may end up at the Wall as Lord Commander in the end when I read the books. I have a little different feeling watching Jorah on TV though… Although I would be happy if your scenarios work out! XD

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    247. Darquemode,

      Considering he’s already saved the lives of 2 of the 3 projected

      Targaryens/3 heads of the dragon

      the least they could do is give the guy a break! 😛

      P.S. I also hear you on Jaime. Just because we know better than to hope, doesn’t mean we don’t. LOL.

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    248. Sean C.: The writers have gone out of their way to completely absolve Littlefinger of responsibility for that, so I doubt it.

      And it doesn’t make any sense to have that be the thing that turns Littlefinger against Sansa, instead of his numerous actual crimes against her and her family.

      Couldn’t agree more with this. As a viewer, we blame LF. In the show, I don’t see Sansa’s marriage affecting her relationship with LF at all. They will somehow continue the LF & Sansa storyline from the books. Eventually she will find out about him betraying Ned or the lie about the dagger, but season 5 will not be the reason she turns on him.

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    249. I wish it was also announced when past actors were returning. For example, we didn’t know until season 5 aired that Lancel, Kevan, and Yohn Royce were returning for sure. I hope Walder Frey, Edmure, and the Blackfish are back next season.

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    250. Mr Fixit,

      “It was that white cloak that soiled me, not the other way around.”

      Ironically now Jaime is one of only a couple of people in the KG who can claim any kind of honourable intentions in being part of it. I do miss the theme being explored in teh show. The Kingsguard definately and I think Briennes storyline should be more about that than the the cliched sexism theme that it seems to be.

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    251. Turncloak: heomore

      You think Sansa regressed this season? I think the forged-by-fire Sansa of S5E10 is a thousand times stronger than the wheee-I-put-on-a-black-dress Sansa of S4E08.

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    252. Aisling: Couldn’t agree more with this. As a viewer, we blame LF. In the show, I don’t see Sansa’s marriage affecting her relationship with LF at all. They will somehow continue the LF & Sansa storyline from the books. Eventually she will find out about him betraying Ned or the lie about the dagger, but season 5 will not be the reason she turns on him.

      How would LF’s implausible ignorance absolve him of responsibility? I can’t imagine anyone in Sansa’s position not wanting to rip LF’s cock off and rape him with it. She knows he is a schemer and a deceitful murderer. Why would she assume his ignorance was real, and why would it matter anyway? I’d be mad at someone who screwed me over that bad because they didn’t do their basic homework nearly as much as I would be if it was a betrayal.

      But yes, I do think that in the books and likely in the show as well, Sansa will somehow learn of LF’s betrayal of her family

      (a certain someone was present at LF’s betrayal of Ned, has a fancy for Stark girls, and is not dead dead….hmmm).

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    253. Pigeon,

      I love Jorah, I feel for him, his love for Dany is so authentic and real and his whole life he has loved something he could never truly obtain.

      I think he’s dead though, he will die in some heroic way saving Dany, sacrificing himself (because he loves her and knows he is doomed anyway) in some gruesome GoTish event.

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    254. Arthur,

      That would be what I expect to happen, being GoT. At least I’ve gone another year without losing my second favourite character!

      I do think there has to be some further purpose to the greyscale…and no, I don’t think his mere presence will infect anyone, as much as I’m sure he’d like to rub his arm in Daario’s face about now. 😛

      If they don’t end up killing each other, it could be another great road trip.

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    255. TheTouchOfFrost,

      I know you can’t stand show-Brienne, but I’m not sure how you can say the theme of honorable intentions is not being explored with her. Damn near every choice she has made has to do with fulfilling her oaths, and if that isn’t honorable, I don’t know what is.

      Chad Brick: You think Sansa regressed this season? I think the forged-by-fire Sansa of S5E10 is a thousand times stronger than the wheee-I-put-on-a-black-dress Sansa of S4E08.

      Agreed.

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    256. I could see this girl as Lyanna

      http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3530481152/nm3614913?ref_=nmmi_mi_all_pbl_41

      I think if they cast a young Lyanna and Ned for a ToJ flashback they wouldn’t make a casting call for these 2 they would only choose an actor/actresses and call them directly because that would be the biggest scene of the whole series and they would want to keep it a secret as much as possible. HBO know a lot of fans looks at those casting call. They had to do a casting call for Arthur Dayne because finding a great swordsman isn’t easy.

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    257. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Because, quite honestly, Ned is a bit of an idiot! Nice guy but an idiot none-the-less. Not entirely sure why he jumped on Jaime so quickly when he forgave both Dayne and Selmy for fighting on the other side. The Starks and Lannisters never had any
      animosity towards eachother until this point ( except perhaps that Cersei was rejected by Rhaegar and Lyanna wasn’t but he’s already married Elia before that). Ned’s assumptions and unwillingness to look into what happened again proves what a dangerous tool for ignorance honour can be.

      You have to look at honour and knighthood from the perspective of the time in which the characters find themselves in, otherwise you wouldn’t really understand their motivations and their actions and you would miss a part of the plot. It is useless to compare knighthood to today’s idea of honour and knighthood.

      The Kingsgaurd is a sworn brotherhood just like the Night Watch, they take a vow that they will always obey the King no matter what. Now we have clearly seen through some of Jon’s struggles for example, that it is not always easy to keep some these vows that you are sworn to. But as a soon as you make a vow your honour and duty depended on that vow. Your personal feeling must be set aside completely.
      This is always a big struggle for those who take these vows, there is always a balance. do they keep to their oath, or do they make choices based on personal morality. It is not easy, it was properly very difficult for the likes of Barristan Selmy for example, to stand around and do nothing whilst Aerys burned people alive. But for someone like Barristan Selmy his duty demands that he sticks to his vows even in the most difficult positions.

      Ned had quite a few very good reasons to distrust the Lannisters. They did not actively take apart in Robert’s rebellion. They only jumped in when the whole rebellion was finished, and Tywin used Pycelle to manipulate Aerys into opening the gates of kings Landing for his army. Aerys thought Tywin was coming to help him. Ned entered the city soon after the Lannister army was unleashed onto Kings Landing. The Lannisters sacked King Landing and in order for them to show their sudden new found support towards Robert, they delivered Elia’s and Rheagar’s children, one of which was just a baby, in bloody cloaks to the throne room. And before that when Ned first stepped into the throne room Jaime was sitting on the throne after he had just killed Aerys.

      Ned had a very good reasons not to trust those Lannisters. He had just seen them sack Kings Landing after lying to the King, and he saw them murder some babies and children, and he saw them murdering the old King and neatly aligning themselves to the new King with a proposal of marriage and some gold.
      We as the readers or the viewers can understand why Jaime made the right decision to kill Aerys, but look closely at Jaime even he scorns at himself because he knows he broke his vows. The service of your vows and your duty was seen as the highest form of knighthood and chivalry.

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    258. Chad Brick,

      Sansa has indeed become much more bold this season. She asserted herself as the Lady of Winterfell, called Myranda and Ramsay out on their bullshit several times despite all the torment they’ve inflicted on her, confronted Theon about Bran and Rickon (and learned they’re still alive), and faced the threat of death without flinching. Whether some of these actions are “wise” or not is debatable, but regardless she has a lot more courage and conviction than she had before. So that’s at least some character progression.

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    259. Arthur,

      His love for Daenerys may be real and authentic, but don’t you find it a bit, I don’t know the word for it…pathetic? He’s a disgraced Knight in both Westeros and Essos, he’s more than 30 years older than she, and he has nothing to offer her. Why would she ever even consider him as a potential love-interest?

        Quote  Reply

    260. Chad Brick: How would LF’s implausible ignorance absolve him of responsibility? I can’t imagine anyone in Sansa’s position not wanting to rip LF’s cock off and rape him with it. She knows he is a schemer and a deceitful murderer. Why would she assume his ignorance was real, and why would it matter anyway? I’d be mad at someone who screwed me over that bad because they didn’t do their basic homework nearly as much as I would be if it was a betrayal.

      But yes, I do think that in the books and likely in the show as well, Sansa will somehow learn of LF’s betrayal of her family

      I agree with you. I think for a rational person, it is implausible. But In the show, they need to reintegrate the book storyline, so for plot reasons, Sansa isn’t going to react the way you or I would. I think even more implausible than Sansa not blaming Petyr is for us to believe that he wouldn’t have investigated Ramsey more deeply, left a spy at Winterfell, or ensured Sansa’s safety somehow. However, Bryan Cogman stated that LF was unaware of the situation. So that is how the writers of the show choose to explain it.

      However, if you look at book plot, there are also a few things that LF has done to Sansa directly and things that she heard Lysa say that would cause most people to not trust him. In the recent TWOW Alayne chapter she is on board with his plan, so there you go.

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    261. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      The thing is, I think it goes beyond the type of crush on a beautiful young woman. What he told Tyrion about seeing her come out of the flames with her baby dragons – I think THAT was a turning point for him, to want to be a part of her journey and rise to power, not just making googly eyes at khaleeeeeeesi (notice she’s letting him call her that once again…).

      He has been pathetic – look how he willingly let his former wife used him to the point of ruin and shame. He has something bigger to fight for now, however. He knows as well as anyone that he isn’t going to ‘get’ her in that way.

      He’s also now saved her life on more than one occasion, Tyrion’s as well, and was the victor in Daznak’s pit. He has a lot to offer

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    262. Since it seems that Northern lords are being cast, I would like one of them to give us this speech:

      I want to live forever in a land where summer lasts a thousand years. I want a castle in the clouds where I can look down over the world. I want to be six-and-twenty again. When I was six-and-twenty I could fight all day and fuck all night. What men want does not matter. Winter is almost upon us, boy. And winter is death. I would sooner my men die fighting for Ned’s little girl than alone and hungry in the snow, weeping tears that freeze upon their cheeks. No one sings songs of men who die like that. As for me, I am old. This will be my last winter. Let me bathe in Bolton blood before I die. I want to feel it spatter across my face when my axe bites deep into a Bolton skull. I want to lick it off my lips and die with the taste of it on my tongue.

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    263. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Well, you got to ask yourself this, why has Jorah become a disgraced Knight?

      And the answer is something like this:
      Because he grows infatuated and desperately in love with a beautiful young woman way to easily to the point of it being his main character fault.

      GRRM always does this kind of thing, he turns a character’s strength to a weakness and vice versa.

      So because of that fact, I think he will use Jorah’s blind and (like you said) pathetic devotion to satisfy Dany to a GoT type level,

      where he probably will die a horrible death saving her.

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    264. Pigeon,

      The thing is, I think it goes beyond the type of crush on a beautiful young woman. What he told Tyrion about seeing her come out of the flames with her baby dragons – I think THAT was a turning point for him, to want to be a part of her journey and rise to power, not just making googly eyes at khaleeeeeeesi (notice she’s letting him call her that once again…).

      OMG such a good point, so on top of him being a total sucker/softy for a beautiful young woman to the point of fault, he has seen this woman come out of a fire pyre and ride away on a dragon… That has to amplify his infatuation 100x.

      Shit, honestly, I think most guys would be pathetic around Dany.

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    265. Nymeria Warrior Queen:
      Arthur,

      His love for Daenerys may be real and authentic, but don’t you find it a bit, I don’t know the word for it…pathetic?He’s a disgraced Knight in both Westeros and Essos, he’s more than 30 years older than she, and he has nothing to offer her.Why would she ever even consider him as a potential love-interest?

      You know, I’m always slightly surprised when people who have read the books first root for Jorah as a romantic love interest for Dany. I found Jorah pushy and controlling in his love for Dany. And he was so much older than her and unattractive to her. There were definitely times in the book that I found Jorah gross and pathetic. But we all interpret things differently, especially with this particular series.

      I never feel that way about Jorah in the TV show. TV Jorah seems like a better person. They give each other these loving glances and Ian Glen is handsome and not pushy with her, so it kind of changes their dynamic. I still don’t want them together, but I don’t find him pathetic.

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    266. mariamb,

      Wow, I remember that!

      If D&D don’t take that from the book and put it right there on TV that be a real shame, that should be the damn audition tape!

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    267. Pigeon,

      Yes, he has something to offer her in terms of serving her, but I don’t think he has anything to offer her as a romantic interest. I agree, his feelings for her go far beyond a crush; he’s in love with her. His wildest dream is for her to return that love. You say he knows he’s not going to “get her in that way,” but I think he’s still trying; he still holds out some hope. It’s like everything he does he does in hopes it will make her love him. In fact, him being so in love with her is one of the reasons I didn’t want her to accept him back in her service. Men who are that far gone will do crazy things and make bad decisions. I know there are a lot of major Jorah fans, I just don’t happen to be one of them. He’s too stalkerish, at least in my view.

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    268. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      His wildest dream is for her to return that love. You say he knows he’s not going to “get her in that way,” but I think he’s still trying; he still holds out some hope.

      And there you have it.

      Every person defines their own personal motivation, the thing they think about the most that pushes and drives them forward. You know what I mean?

      For Jorah, his motivation is to serve Dany and make her happy anyway he can in the dream that someday she will return that love, I think he knows it will never happen and is happy just to be by her side, but that will not stop Jorah from trying.

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    269. I just want to say, I think Iain Glen does a stellar job in the role. My feelings about the character are not meant to take anything away from his great work. My feelings are probably also informed by some of my own experiences. No, I’m not claiming to be some stunningly beautiful woman in a position of great power…hahaha.

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    270. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Haha!

      We know what you mean, I agree Jorah is a Dany fanatic… That is not good and I bet Dany feels awkward around him in many ways.

      But at the same time, he is not the type of fanatic that would ever force himself on her, peep at her or do anything purposely that would make her feel uncomfortable.

      He just wants to serve her and be beside her, he would die for her. Of course he wishes someday she will return the love interest but he knows that will never happen but he still persues it because that’s what motivates his character, that’s what he feels is his purpose.

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    271. Nymeria Warrior Queen:
      I just want to say, I think Iain Glen does a stellar job in the role.My feelings about the character are not meant to take anything away from his great work.My feelings are probably also informed by some of my own experiences.No, I’m not claiming to be some stunningly beautiful woman in a position of great power…hahaha.

      As a woman, I found his expression of his feelings in the books off putting to say the least.

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    272. Arthur:
      Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Haha!

      We know what you mean, I agree Jorah is a Dany fanatic…That is not good and I bet Dany feels awkward around him in many ways.

      But at the same time, he is not the type of fanatic that would ever force himself on her, peep at her or do anything purposely that would make her feel uncomfortable.

      He just wants to serve her and be beside her, he would die for her.Of course he wishes someday she will return the love interest but he knows that will never happen but he still peruses it because that’s what motivates his character, that’s what he feels is his purpose.

      Are you talking about the books or the show? Because he has been inappropriate with her and made her uncomfortable in the books.

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    273. Aisling,

      I am talking about the show, in the books I was neutral to Jorah but in the show I love him.

      What did he do in the books that was not gentlemanly? I forget to be honest.

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    274. mariamb,

      I don’t usually care whether or not iconic dialogue from the books makes it into the show, but that speech is fantastic – definitely one of my favorite excerpts from ADWD. I would love to see one of the Northern Lords recite that monologue while pledging their loyalty to Sansa and/or Rickon. It wouldn’t be Hugo Wull, but that’s just fine – those words would sound every bit as badass coming from an Umber.

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    275. Darkstar,

      Look for the Game of Thrones wiki for that. Just search “season 6” and all the castings are listed there, with links to the WOTW articles.

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    276. Arthur:
      Aisling,

      I am talking about the show, in the books I was neutral to Jorah but in the show I love him.

      What did he do in the books that was not gentlemanly?I forget to be honest.

      I don’t remember the exact quotes but 2 things come to mind: When she was wearing the dress with one breast out in Qarth she noticed he kept peeping glances at her boob. Also Jorah came to her room when she was naked with only a lionskin covering her and kissed her.

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    277. Arthur,

      I don’t know. She seems to have at least some affection for him, though not in the way he does for her. He’s been at her side for many years. I think she might see him as a bit of a father figure. She seemed pretty hurt by his betrayal, nearly to the point of tears at some moments. You don’t feel that way about just anyone in your service who betrays you. She also seems overcome with emotion when Jorah offers her his hand after helping rescue her from the Sons of the Harpy.

      I guess we’ll see. I have this sinking feeling that there will be a confrontation between Jorah and Daario on the way to rescue Dany. If Jorah ends up killing Daario then I think he’ll have to lie to her and betray her trust once more. It will be unpleasant to see.

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    278. mariamb,

      You know, there is a book called ‘Njal’s Saga’ and its FULL of really cool quotes like that.

      You should give it a go, its a simple fast read and it is all based on historical fact.

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    279. Mr Fixit,

      Basically the people don’t think she can do stuff because she’s female. Oh look she’s beating guys! It’s like the standard stock of a sitcom! I thought the books did a good job of disregarding her gender to a certain degree and focused more on her refusal to give up and her changing relationship with honour. Stubborn , naive Brienne was a lot more endearing and interesting than superwoman Brienne.

      Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      It’s surface stuff though. We’re not getting the self-doubt and the questioning of honour and what it means. I would rather they’d have shelved the action sequences they forced into her storyline and focused more on that. I think they’re playing her too hard. They need a finer balance of strength but self-doubt and naivity. I mean it may work for some people but I’m finding her increasingly annoying and just can’t warm to her at all.

      Boudica,

      I get that and understand why the characters think the way they do but I think following orders unquestioningly is a dangerous road to go down so feel some empathy with characters like Jaime and Mance who broke those vows for valid reasons but get looked down on because of said honour code.
      Seems unfair the Lannisters get such disdain for that tactic when the Tyrells did exactly the same thing only completely indecisiveily! The Mad King had done his best to spite Tywin based almost solely on the fact that he was such an efficient Hand that people claimed he ran the kingdom. This jealously led to him insulting their honour by turning down a proposed marriage between Cersi and Rheagar, allowing Jaime to serve inthe Kingsguard denying Tywin of his heir and keeping Jaime as a pet/almost hostage to try and keep his father in check. Aerys should have listened to the Rains of Castamere a bit more closely. The North started the war based on a similar personal issue as opposed to an idealistic one. I think Jaime’s “By what right does the wolf judge the lion” line is pat here. As if you take away the ‘honour’ then was there any real difference between what the Lannisters and Starks did , or even between what Jaime and Robert did? I understand why the Starks, etc felt the way they did but honour is a bit like religion in that people use a rigid framework to maek sense of things which doesn’t take the details into acccount effectively.

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    280. Arthur:
      mariamb,

      You know, there is a book called ‘Njal’s Saga’ and its FULL of really cool quotes like that.

      You should give it a go, its a simple fast read and it is all based on historical fact.

      Njal’s saga is fantastic. I believe it’s Icelandic in origin

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    281. <