The latest Kit Harington and Iain Glen sightings, plus new pics of Riverrun

Alcazaba

According to Ideal.es, the Alcazaba of Almería, confirmed in July to be a season six Game of Thrones location, filming will occur at the thousand-year-old fortress on October 20th and 21st.

This scheduling was inferred from the Alcazaba stating that the decks would be closed to visitors on those dates. Though the shooting dates are not officially confirmed, the speculation is solid, based on this and the dates coinciding with the announcement of the Almería province filming period: October 10th-23rd.

A few days ago, La Voz de Almeria reported their own sources gave them the dates the 20th and 21st for the Alcazaba, making it seem more and more likely that this is accurate.

The purpose of Alcazaba for Game of Thrones is unknown. Speculation runs from new possible Dornish location, to another site for Meereen. Dorne is the most popular guess though- with GoT not returning to Seville, it seems like more Dornish locations are needed, and the Alcazaba does look like a place from George R. R. Martin’s Dorne.

Filming in Almería in general is expected to begin on the 10th, at the set in El Chorrillo, Sierra Alhamilla. At least one cast member is in the area already. Iain Glen was photographed with the staff of a restaurant in Almería:


 

Meanwhile, back in Northern Ireland, filming and sightings continued as usual, with everyone’s favorite Worst Kept Secret™ popping up in Belfast.

One fan spotted Kit Harington at the Crown Bar:

And not too far away from Belfast:

Our reader Tir Airgid has provided these new photos of the Riverrun set in progress in Corbet, Northern Ireland. These photos were taken the day before yesterday, on Tuesday October 6th. There have been some rumors surrounding the set, with IrishThrones tweeting yesterday that a gallows had been built, but the day before that tweet was shared, this was the appearance of the sets.

You can see the wooden structure in the center taking shape, but it’s too unfinished to determine what it is- a gallows, or the beginning of some other type of platform.

Corbet 2 Corbet 1 Corbet 3 Corbet 4

 

Thanks to WotW readers Tir Airgid and H. Stark!

445 responses

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    1. Jon is

      reborn by episode 3. NOW AZOR AHAI. Ultimate BADASS leading the North to battle unfinished business against the BOLTONS in episode 9. Then heads back north to fight the WHITE WALKERS in Season 7.

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    2. There were sightings of Kit at Heathrow last sunday, so now we know where he was heading, back to the set after a short break.

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    3. Awesome! Now all we need is confirmation of the Blackfish returning (I’m guessing he uses the outlaws to retake the castle from the Freys or something and then Jaime is sent to clear it up). I’d love to see Edmure and Roslyn as well.

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    4. Its either Sunspear or Hellholt though the former is more likely. (Unless there was confirmation that those two places wouldn’t be seen this season then never mind).

      As for the Riverrun stuff…I guess they are doing the siege. Not entirely sure how that will work since, as far I know, Blackfish and Edmure haven’t been announced to come back. Of course, their presence may be a surprise.

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    5. Edmure and the Blackfish have not been confirmed to come back but with Riverrun and the gallows it seems difficult to imagine they would not. And of course people would want it to be a secret. Yet I would wish some sighting…

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    6. Newbietothegame,

      Oh I didn’t mean that as a bad thing, I agree in fact.

      How long will this siege last in the show do you think? I can’t see them showing it for the whole season but I could see them mentioning it early on and resolving it before the end.

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    7. Thank you H Stark and Tir!!! Tir was here 🙂 hope you enjoyed the view. Looks awesome. Jaime is still your fave hopefully and maybe you will get a pic of NWC soon. Freakout is coming?!

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    8. Nice touch with using the trademark symbol lol…. I salute u, Julie Ann, with your tweet and your approach towards celebrities and not going cuckoo for cocoa puffs when u saw KH… I mentioned this on the other website and I’ll say the same thing that this is gonna be unpopular but I’m starting to think that Kit Harrington is a douche in real life. I base this on the interview he did saying how the show is holding back his acting career and then more recently how he harshly shot down that pro soccer player when he asked Kit for an autograph. Those are facts. Now I also speculate he might be suffering from the napoleon complex being 5’6″. But man does he make for a perfect Jon Snow

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    9. So interesting to see how they’re blue-framing that facade, with the bit of curve on either side. Will look at that ultimate shot/scene in a different way now.

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    10. God of tits and wine,

      Well it is. He can’t do anything else without running it by the show runners and when he can its a small window for him to do so. That must be frustrating as hell for someone that wants to be known for other bodies of work besides this. I think even other actors who have done work outside of the show have said that it is difficult so its not just him.

      As for him turning the guy down…well like I said in the other thread, actors are not public property, if they wanna say no to something, no matter how dickish it comes across, they can. Outside of work like press or filming, they don’t owe us anything and fans treating an actors private time as something that is our right to have is fucking stupid. Its not our right and complaining about it when they don’t bow to our every whim does favors for no one. Its an attitude like that, that makes people resent their fans/ fandom in general.

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    11. Thomas Sandstone,

      Agree with all of this. Also, it’s well documented at this point that he’s not allowed to take photos with fans while he’s filming this season. He’s actually told several fans that he’s “not allowed” to take pics.

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    12. I heard from several sources

      The Brotherhood without Banners will occupy Riverrun along with the BlackFish. Jamie and Bryndens sortie will devolve into a fight in which Jamie is nearly killed but at the last second a Lannister bowmen will shoot The Black Fish in the throat with an arrow causing him to stumble back over the edge of the bridge into the river. Jaimie will narrowly escape arrow fire himself. The BlackFish will then be brought back to life by Beric Dondarrion at the cost of his own life.

      The Brotherhood will sneak away from Rivverrun leaving it to the castellan or possibly the maester to open the gates for the Lannister/Freys.
      Jamie will have what is being described as a very tense scene with Emmon Frey afterwards.

      I’m guessing Emmon will be killed late in the season byThe StoneFish.

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    13. Thomas Sandstone,

      I think it’ll be the Water Gardens. The castle, in the inside, looks great for the Water Gardens. I’m guessing they learned their lessons from all the leaks in season 5 and also wanted some new garden areas, which is why they dropped Seville. It probably costs a lot less, too.

      The fact that they’re only filming there for two days fits what Areo’s actor said about Dorne having little screentime this season. Though I guess there may be some scenes shot in the sets in Ireland. And the Sand Snakes might get the same plotlines as in the books, though there’s no way to know.

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    14. Thomas Sandstone,

      We don’t get nearly as much information about returning cast members as new ones, so that wouldn’t really be that odd.

      jentario,

      Would that really make sense, though? What would the Blackfish be trying to accomplish? Basically, the story would be that he was in hiding after the Red Wedding, rallied some outlaws to storm the castle, then waits to be surrounded, and then presumably flees back into hiding.

      It seems far more likely, notwithstanding that it feels hard to reconcile with what we were told in earlier seasons, that they’re just doing the book story. Though even that would arguably also feel circuitous, since it also ends with the Blackfish escaping to parts unknown, which is also where Season 3 left him (hence, I always assumed we’d just pick up with whatever he’s doing in TWOW).

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    15. Thomas Sandstone,

      While I identify with what you’re saying, I can’t totally pick up what you’re putting down. The reason being is bc he’s talking about the show that made him what he is today. If it weren’t for that he wouldn’t be getting the other acting offers. For me, it’s kinda like biting the hand that feeds you. And as for the soccer player, it was the manner in the way he shot him down. I believe the PSP said he now doesn’t even care if Snow dies on the show and might not even watch it anymore

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    16. Sean C.,

      To sum it up, who the fuck knows? We’ll have to wait and see if they put a spin on it that makes sense both narratively and in the story itself. Either way, I’m just happy to see these scenes on screen. Very intense and very good for Jaime’s character.

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    17. HighGarden Harlot:
      I heard from several sources

      Yes, do you have any bonafides? Have you posted spoilers that have been proven true before? Or any proof of connection to sources, anything to prove you’re not having a laugh? Apologies I don’t know this, I’m horrible with names. This is the first I’ve heard of

      The Stonefish.

      It would seem like such a questionable decision on the part of the showrunners, diluting and delaying part of the story, shifting it off onto a smaller character, that I have to disbelieve it. Though I welcome

      the BWB and Blackfish returning in any form.

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    18. God of tits and wine,

      I’m willing to bet that the aforementioned soccer star has turned down a few autographs in real life (unless he’s not that famous, I really have no idea).

      Maybe Kit wanted 5 minutes of peace. He doesn’t owe anyone a thing because a show he’s on got popular. It’s nice when celebs are so accommodating to fans, but there’s a limit.

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    19. ANiceChianti,

      Never said that he shouldn’t be grateful or anything but this show is a double edged sword for this cast. What’s the point of being on one of the biggest television shows on the planet if you can’t make sure that when its over, you still have a job? The schedule and contracts they have is absolutely killer for getting other parts. Getting a job as an actor is never easy but I doubt its easy with what is asked of them on this show.

      Bella,

      I had heard about that, but I thought it was a rumor? If he’s actually been told not to take pictures as filming commences then, HBO really screwed themselves over for trying to keep this thing a secret.

      jentario,

      I hadn’t considered that but it could be. How big are the gardens supposed to be exactly? If its relatively large, a new filming location and a small amount of dialogue could explain away the different looking parts that they filmed in.

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    20. God of tits and wine,

      I could understand being disappointed by an encounter with an actor but my point still stands, outside of work, they owe us nothing. And really, he might not watch because of it? A bit dramatic since Jon isn’t the only character worth following in this show. He could just record the show or wait for the dvd and skip the Wall/Northern story line instead of quitting the show altogether.

      Sean C.,

      True, but given all that’s happened lately, it would really be surprising if no one was able to get a picture of them. Might get one in the coming days so who knows.

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    21. Felt Pelt:

      It would seem like such a questionable decision on the part of the showrunners, diluting and delaying part of the story, shifting it off onto a smaller character, that I have to disbelieve it. Though I welcome

      Of course it would be questionable. Why do you think something questionable would be what stops them from doing it? They replaced Arriane with the awful Sand Snakes why would they not replace Lady Stoneheart with someone else? Seems the only logical thing to do if her arc is actually important to the plot.

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    22. HighGarden Harlot,

      HighGarden Harlot:
      They replaced Arriane with the awful Sand Snakes why would they not replace Lady Stoneheart with someone else?

      Ah..So it’s just you writing fan-fiction because you are angry.

      If you feel so confident of your claims, give them to Sue to confirm. Of course you won’t tough..

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    23. There’s no way they’re going to film a big battle sequence in two days, so I think we can rule out

      Meereen.

        Quote  Reply

    24. Mihnea,

      What part of that sounds angry? I’ve literally never met anyone who said the Sand Snakes were anything but awful. You don’t need to feel anger to recognize that obviously.
      I don’t serve anyone.Why would I reveal my sources? For validation from someone who’s validation I don’t seek?
      Just doing a favor to anyone who would like to know whats going to happen ahead of time.

        Quote  Reply

    25. Basically, there’s a lot of unknown regarding returning cast members:

      Edmure
      Blackfish
      BwB
      Dorne cast

      But we should find out some things soon.

        Quote  Reply

    26. As I said earlier, in my opinion, it doesn’t make sense for them to write siege of Riverrun from AFFC.

      Let see what were purposes of that siege:

      1. Freys takes that castle
      2. BF escapes
      3. Jaime is growing as a person and commander

      Points 1. and 2. were already achieved in S3, and Jaime had his relationship with myrcella in S5 and he will have “siege of Sept of Baelor” in S6 to show his growth.

      The only reason why they would (in some form) use plot from AFFC is to create filler.

      Maybe the informations they got from GRRM about the Riverlands, Jaime, Brienne, etc. are not enough for them to create their storylines in S6, 7 and 8.

        Quote  Reply

    27. HighGarden Harlot,

      If you would feel confident on your claims, you would give them to Sue, no problem.
      No this ”I serve no one” bullshit.

      You not wanting Sue to see them, someone who could either confrim or destroy your claims in 3 sec, is proof that you know this claims you make to be false.

      I’m not going to enter a Dorne debate, but I will let you know that me, my father and my friends quite like the Sand Snakes.

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    28. HighGarden Harlot,

      Well I never considered the Sand Snakes awful, I liked them actually but I will agree that they were part of a weaker story line.

      Matt,

      Well the Dorne cast is pretty much confirmed as coming back except Toby Sebastian. But you’re right, the rest are unknowns at this point.

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    29. mau,

      Like any resonable person would do..

      Also the fact that this is the first time he posts supposed spoilers for S6, makes me question his sources

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    30. HighGarden Harlot,

      Yeah, the questionable part isn’t the Blackfish taking on LS role as joining the BWB. That makes sense, but having him die and bringing him back to life makes zero sense, and will not happen. If they were going to bring a character back to life to lead the BWB, it would have been Catelyn. And they certainly wouldn’t have waited until the same season Jon is resurrected to do it.

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    31. ANiceChianti,

      You don’t know that for sure. If people are meant to succeed they will do so regardless of the route they take. At the end of the day, Kit is most likely, as every other young actor in the series, completely grateful for what GOT has given him but that doesn’t mean that the commitment the show requires is not sometimes restricting. You don’t think David and Dan feel the same way? Yes, it is a great job but it is also a job that takes over your life, after 5 years everyone of them is probably now feeling it more than ever.

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    32. HighGarden Harlot,

      Like Arianne was such a quality character,no,her story was shit and her character was nothing more than(insert ramdom sexualised character) by Martin to spice things up in Dorne,he failed . As for LS,if she was so important,they wouldn’t wait until season 6 to introduce her and they wouldn’t replace her with someone else . Nice bait,though .

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    33. mau,

      Did you not see the pictures of Lannister tents camped outside of Riverrun?

      And if you comprehended what I i wrote you would not compare this siege nor the aftermath to what happens in the books. We don’t know what happens to Emmon in the books. This is pretty much confirmation that LSH will go after him within the castle walls. That is more TWOW than AFFC.
      You are the one coming up with your own personal rules for the purpose of a siege. Apparently the writers and producers disagree with you because we are clearly going there in season six. This is plainly less about Jamie and more about the BWB and LSH replacement.

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    34. mau,

      And the show. Why is it some people can’t admit this? Dorne was awful in season 5. They took bad characters from the books and made them worse. Of course, this is my opinion, and I fully expect you and Mihnea to jump in with your disagreements.

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    35. TormundsWoman,
      Oh I wish TW! Back home now, though, so no chance. However given the layout of the place, I’m SURE he’ll be spotted if (when? plsplspls) he shows up. And when that happens you can bet there’ll be a big freakout from me!!

      Would love to know if Edmure or the Blackfish are coming back, or if they’re going with a different/amalgamated/future? storyline. But so far that looks as if they’re planning to go with something not too far removed from the book storyline. I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

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    36. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      Admit to what exactly? Opinions are not facts and that is the beauty of them. If you didn’t like anything from Dorne then fine, but that doesn’t make what you say fact. And even if the majority of the fandom agreed with you, it still doesn’t make it fact. I have no idea why you felt the need to include that bit and immediately follow it up with a statement of it being your opinion.

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    37. HighGarden Harlot,

      You lost credibility when you said the Blackfish would be brought back from the dead. The whole reason they cut LS was because they didn’t want to bring a major character back from the dead, except for Jon. Blackfish does not need to be dead in order to align with the Brotherhood. There is zero chance of that happening.

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    38. mau,

      What is this place some sort of communist refuge for spoiler sources? Why would anyone be beholden to reveal their sources on anything? Does this place have a monopoly on GOT spoilers?
      LoL
      Just be grateful and be ready to feel stupid when season 6 rolls around.

        Quote  Reply

    39. Tyrion Pimpslap:
      mau,
      And the show.

      I won’t disagree. I don’t know why they didn’t cut them. Completely useless and annoying characters in both mediums.

      But, for me the majority of scenes in Dorne were fine. They needed a better climax, though.

      I don’t think that Dorne from the show was any worse or better than in the books.

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    40. mau: Let see what were purposes of that siege:

      1. Freys takes that castle
      2. BF escapes
      3. Jaime is growing as a person and commander

      I think they are switching it up for the show, but align it eventually:
      1) Freys have RR (as designated after RW)
      2) BF/BwB infiltrate RR and take some Freys hostage; Standoff
      3) Jaime arrives with Bronn to work out a solution (siege threat)
      4) BF barters with Jaime on the bridge (tense but no arrow thru throat!); No deal
      5) Siege begins (if no deal); BF escapes with BwB; Lots of Freys are killed
      6) What might be the Bronn factor in this?

        Quote  Reply

    41. HighGarden Harlot: Of course it would be questionable. Why do you think something questionable would be what stops them from doing it? They replaced Arriane with the awful Sand Snakes why would they not replace Lady Stoneheart with someone else? Seems the only logical thing to do if her arc is actually important to the plot.

      It’s always imo, but Arianne was, if possible, worse than the Sand Snakes. Her sex scene with Arys is so badly done that it’s embarrassing to read, and her plot to crown Myrcella is as pointless as that sex scene.

      Sand Snakes are no worse, sorry. “Bad pussy” is as bad as Arianne and Arys. Their plot with Myrcella at least worked, so it can’t be seen as chapter upon chapter of waste.

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    42. HighGarden Harlot,

      Yes, this place has a monopoly on credible spoilers for future seasons. They may turn up somewhere else first but unless someone from WotW reports or confirms it, they are most likely fake. Especially if they include Lady Stoneheart or reak of fanfiction mixed with previous set reports like your “information”.

        Quote  Reply

    43. HighGarden Harlot,

      Sue was never wrong. So you not wanting her to confirm/deny you claims just makes you look like a troll.

      If you are right, the Sue will eventually find out. And then I will apologies to you.
      But excuse me for having second-thoughts on what some guy say’s on the internet, more so when we don’t know how legit his sources are.

        Quote  Reply

    44. Thomas Sandstone,

      My opinion was that show Dorne was worse. The first part was about the SS being bad in the show too. I’m sorry, clearly a percentage of people did like them, but I am comfortable saying that the majority did not. Even you “admit” that it’s possible/likely that the majority of viewers feel this way.

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    45. God of tits and wine,

      Kit Harington is very english man,he love privacy and this for me is right. He has been under massive pressure from the press and the fans He had always been kind to fans and had always done pictures with them, now he is tired and I understand,too many unnecessary rumors because of a photo denied! Napoleone Bonaparte was a great leader who left his mark in history.Kit Harington is a nice guy, a great actor, a great Jon ,a great leader ,he is Azor Ahai reborn…in the movie,but in real life he is a normal guy who has every right to be tired because it is being chased everywhere

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    46. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      I wouldn’t say the majority of the fandom hated them. From what I got from multiple places the reactions to the SS are mostly ”meh” or ”they where fun”.

      The majority of book-readers? Sure, here I agree.

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    47. Hodor’s Bastard,

      I agree that that scenario is possible, but why would they make BF disappear twice?

      Well, maybe he will appear at the beginning of TWOW, and that will be just after the end of AFFC, so D&D will use that plot from TWOW in S7, and write siege of Riverrun in S6(AFFC) just for set-up.

      But again, it feels strange. So, BF and outlaws will somehow take Riverrun from the Freys, and then he will escape and in S7 his main goal will be to take Riverrun with outlaws again?

      With Sansa and the North in S7?

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    48. God of tits and wine: I mentioned this on the other website and I’ll say the same thing that this is gonna be unpopular but I’m starting to think that Kit Harrington is a douche in real life. I base this on the interview he did saying how the show is holding back his acting career and then more recently how he harshly shot down that pro soccer player when he asked Kit for an autograph. Those are facts. Now I also speculate he might be suffering from the napoleon complex being 5’6″. But man does he make for a perfect Jon Snow

      I’ve seen several tv-interviews with Kit Harrington and he seems really really nice and he was always very positive about the show. But written interviews can sometimes give a different impression because they highlight a few quotes without giving the context, that’s why I mostly avoid to read those.
      I read that he refused to take pictures. Previous years he always allowed pictures being taken. But with the Harrington Hair Watch this year I can understand that it’s sometimes too much for him. People are sometimes exaggerating. And maybe HBO or D&D indeed asked him to refuse pictures being taken in Belfast to keep his return a secret (but that clearly didn’t work).

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    49. Maria,

      Like I said before, I’ve only read summaries of the characters but what I’ve read about Arianne doesn’t make me see the appeal of her. If she ever did show up, I think they would revamp her but that would piss people off not that I think they care about that.

      Mihnea,

      That’s probably true.

      Tyrion Pimpslap,

      Well, yeah I can acknowledge the possibility of that. It still doesn’t mean that their opinion is right. If that’s not what you meant then never mind.

        Quote  Reply

    50. Mihnea,

      Maybe I should say the majority of critics/people who discuss the show on internet message boards, both book readers and unsullied. It’s tough to gauge the entirety of the viewership, not when there are people who still enjoyed shows like True Blood till the bitter end(No offense meant to those of you who did).

        Quote  Reply

    51. mau: So, BF and outlaws will somehow take Riverrun from the Freys, and then he will escape and in S7 his main goal will be taken Riverrun with outlaws again?

      Hmmm…good point. BF is the ultimate escape artist!

      Seriously, BF could probably die defending his home turf. Or maybe, for further book/show quasi-alignment, Jaime gets taken hostage by the BwB/BF?

        Quote  Reply

    52. God of tits and wine: While I identify with what you’re saying, I can’t totally pick up what you’re putting down. The reason being is bc he’s talking about the show that made him what he is today. If it weren’t for that he wouldn’t be getting the other acting offers. For me, it’s kinda like biting the hand that feeds you. And as for the soccer player, it was the manner in the way he shot him down. I believe the PSP said he now doesn’t even care if Snow dies on the show and might not even watch it anymore

      I might be wrong but you seem to be cherry picking an interview and one fan occurrence to support a preconceived notion. Why just look at the one interview and the one fan occurrence?

      Kit Harington has also done hundreds of interviews where he explained that GoT was his first TV gig and what a great experience it is, and how happy and grateful he is with the role. He has also often stated GoT allowed him to be able to do other roles. If you read that whole interview his answer is more of a factual explanation. He really does do a lot of filming as we can see for ourselves with the whole hairwatch thing this year. All of those great big fighting scenes does seem to take up a lot of time. So it is only natural that he would have to turn down some other roles. As an actor you do properly want to play a lot of different roles.

      It is a similar situation with Victor Anichebe as well. Kit Harington is actually known for being very accommodating with fans in general, and people do describe him as down to earth. For example at the San Francisco premier this season he was the only one who went out and give autographs to the fans. (Not that there is anything wrong with the other cast members for not giving autographs on that day. The whole cast always seem very nice and approachable.)
      Ironically some of Victor Anichebe’s own fans reminded him on twitter that he himself has denied them autographs and photographs in a forceful manner.
      For one instance where Victor Anichebe was denied a picture, there are hundreds of fans with happy experiences of meeting Kit Harinton. He does not have twitter or facebook so I guess that might imply that he likes a bit privacy now and then, with the whole hairwatch thing this year he properly has a lot more people focused on him then usual.

      Ultimately we really dont know any celebrities personally, so we will never know them truly beyond their public persona, but generally it seems more constructive to look at the overall picture then to just cherry pick an interview or isolated event here and there. But then again there is also no rule that says we have to like or respect someone, everyone will have their own opinions.

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    53. HighGarden Harlot:
      I heard from several sources The Brotherhood without Banners will occupy Riverrun along with the BlackFish. Jamie and Bryndens sortie will devolve into a fight in which Jamie is nearly killed but at the last second a Lannister bowmen will shoot The Black Fish in the throat with an arrow causing him to stumble back over the edge of the bridge into the river. Jaimie will narrowly escape arrow fire himself. The BlackFish will then be brought back to life by Beric Dondarrion at the cost of his own life.

      The Brotherhood will sneak away from Rivverrun leaving it to the castellan or possibly the maester to open the gates for the Lannister/Freys.
      Jamie will have what is being described as a very tense scene with Emmon Frey afterwards.

      I’m guessing Emmon will be killed late in the season byThe StoneFish.

      If this is true, the entire thing should be set in the SPOILER mode. Not cool, not cool at all.

        Quote  Reply

    54. When I think about that it makes sense for Sansa to turn her eyes on the Riverlands in S7.

      Who will defeat the Freys? And I mean politically, with an army. Arya can’t. Jon doesn’t have an emotional connection. Blackfish is too small character for that.

      Only Sansa. She looks like Cat, they made so many parallels between two of them in the show.

      So yes. Sanasa taking the Riverrun is something that narratively makes the most sense in my opinion.

      If they write AFFC plot for the siege of Riverrun in S6, BF can escape and unite with Sansa in S7, after Sansa, Jon and Rickon take WF. Maybe that will happen in the books also.

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    55. Mihnea,

      I do not mind if you dont believe me . I just think it’s strange how you people can’t seem to fathom why someone would not want to share their sources with strangers. Lol

      What do I owe Sue? Very strange cult like mentality I am noticing.

        Quote  Reply

    56. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      Most people who wach TV shows/Movies/read books, don’t even post on the internet, the ocasionalle YouTube comment or Facebook post, thats it.

      I would be suprized if those who post, and here I mean more then 1 post with ”nice news/episode..”, would make more then 25-35% of fans, and hell even those can’t agree on things.

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    57. Off topic but I’m watching game of thrones right now.. Just finished a scene with the hound.. Have we had any more word on that sighting a while back.. Really miss that guy

        Quote  Reply

    58. HighGarden Harlot,

      You owe her nothing. But we don’t have to belive you either.

      And Sue has never been wrong about news. Like I said if she will tell us this claims of yours are right, I will apologies to you, until then I don’t belive 1 word of what you posted.

        Quote  Reply

    59. HighGarden Harlot: What do I owe Sue? Very strange cult like mentality I am noticing.

      Huh. You owe Sue nothing. But she happens to be the editor of the site in which you are commenting, so it’s obvious that the readers would point you to her. Nothing strange about that. If you provided her with your source, I’m sure she wouldn’t reveal your sources; but, of course, you would be reticent to just randomly reveal your sources. Yet, it wouldn’t even be necessary; as long as you can provide some sort of way to corroborate your statements, I’m sure this or any other website would be willing to publish your information, especially if they have heard something similar through their own sources. You see, that’s how journalism works. If your statements cannot be verified, nobody will believe you. Why can’t you understand this very simple notion? You haven’t provided any reliable scoops before, that I know of, so why would you expect anything but snide remarks at what the readers can only perceive as fan fiction? Anyone can make shit up, and your “spoilers” didn’t include anything that could ever make us believe that is anything more than fan fiction.

        Quote  Reply

    60. Luka Nieto,

      I am saving your message and I will endlessly mock you for it when this episode airs.
      Can’t wait for the air of collective smugness to be totally let out of your sails in April.

        Quote  Reply

    61. God of tits and wine,

      Harshly shot him down? Were you there? Of course that’s how the soccer player saw it…because lets get real, an athlete isnt typically turned down or rejected by anyone. It doesnt take a genius to figure out that a secretly dead character taking photos with fans wouldnt please show executives/producers. But of course, that soccer player was only concerned with his ego. Its like the guy at the bar that asks the pretty girl for a dance, she says no politely, then suddenly she’s a B*tch /rude/conceited 😉 lol

        Quote  Reply

    62. HighGarden Harlot,

      I didn’t even say you were wrong. I stated no opinion one way or the other. I’m just saying we have literally no reason to believe you. So quit trolling.

      Sue the Fury,

      Well, you see, HighGarden Harlot? That’s what people were waiting for —For Sue to cross check your information with what she and her sources have, and see if it coincides. It doesn’t! So you’re bullshiting. That simple.

        Quote  Reply

    63. mau:
      Who will defeat the Freys? And I mean politically, with an army. Arya can’t. Jon doesn’t have an emotional connection. Blackfish is too small character for that.

      Only Sansa. She looks like Cat, they made so many parallels between two of them in the show.

      Why can’t Arya do that? She learnt a lot of skills with the Faceless Men and her direwolf Nymeria is still somewhere in the Riverlands.

      Did you read the books? I don’t know what Sansa will do in the show: stay in the North or go back to the Vale.

      But I do think Arya will return to the Riverlands to reunite with Nymeria and her wolfpack and kill some Freys. And she might infiltrate with the Boltons as real Arya instead of fake Arya/Jeyne Poole

        Quote  Reply

    64. Sue the Fury,

      LOL! Why don’t these spoiler trolls realize that any version of an undead character not named Beric leading the BWB is a dead giveaway that they are full of crap?

      It is so obvious that they cut LS because of what was upcoming with Jon.

        Quote  Reply

    65. Mihnea,

      Yes. Bow to your god. For there is no way for information concerning scripts to get out without her knowing.

      I cant wait till this kingdom of smug comes crashing down on you all.

        Quote  Reply

    66. HighGarden Harlot,

      You seem to be the only smug person around here, buddy. Quit projecting.

      Sue doesn’t know everything. But obviously she had something that contradicted your story. Again, “how journalism works”.

        Quote  Reply

    67. Luka Nieto: … Anyone can make shit up, and your “spoilers” didn’t include anything that could ever make us believe that is anything more than fan fiction.

      This needs all the likes. Not even lemongate theorists would buy into such obvious hack-work fan-fic

        Quote  Reply

    68. Mihnea,

      Why do you think she knows everything? Are you her daughter or something?

      Seriously what the hell is going on around here? This devotion is actually scary now.

        Quote  Reply

    69. Chilli,

      Because Freys are a political force. I find it unrealistic that a girl with a wolfpack can end their rule in the Riverlands. Who will rule from the Riverrun? Arya?

      I think that Arya will kill Walder Frey, but to end their rule(with the Lannisters help) alone? No.

        Quote  Reply

    70. Luka Nieto,

      How can she confirm or deny something that was not leaked to her? Unless she is a writer or married to a writer which would make this website illegal.

        Quote  Reply

    71. Sue, thanks for quashing that false rumor.

      While you’re here, wondered if your sources had any info on a claim I saw on Reddit(?) which I suspect is untrue but seems somewhat plausible:

      That Ramsay captures Rickon and then kills him with an arrow to the chest in front of Jon (what is it about these fake theories and arrows?)

        Quote  Reply

    72. mau,

      Maybe it’s not Arya alone. It could be like the battle in the north with Jon/Boltons, Karstarks, Wildlings etc. Arya could somehow fight together with the Blackfish/Edmure Tully/Brotherhood without Banners etc. I don’t think it will be an isolated battle, I think everyone in the Riverlands will be involved. Maybe even Gendry and Sandor ‘The Hound’ Clegane.

        Quote  Reply

    73. I heard a rumor that HighGarden Harlot made up those rumors. I have it on very good terms from the one source I trust 100% that it is nothing but false rumors.

        Quote  Reply

    74. Sue the Fury,

      So let me get this straight. Just because YOU don’t know something. That is your version of proving it false?

      Great to finally see behind that curtain here.

        Quote  Reply

    75. The idea of BF and outlaws/BwB/whatever taking back Riverrun from the Freys is 100 times more ridiculous than them doing the Siege plot straight from the books. Too much weight has been put on Brienne’s side comment from S4 about the Freys having RR. She was just assuming – plus, the Freys essentially do have RR, as in the entire surrounding area, just not the castle.

        Quote  Reply

    76. HighGarden Harlot,

      She wouldn’t post that your info was false unless she had info that directly contradicts what you are saying. Your overly defensive response doesn’t bode well for you either.

        Quote  Reply

    77. While I’m here, I’d like to remind everyone to please keep both eyes open for any and all potential Joe Dempsie sightings. I’m rewatching the show this week (being sick is awful… except that I get to do things like this) and I’m more a fan of that actor’s work as Gendry with every subsequent rewatch. He brings such greatness to the character and I really don’t want the last of him to have been 3×10. ;_;

      Oh Season 3, you were so good. And yet you were also the proverbial Garden of Bones for so many characters whose fates seem likelier and likelier to remain unknown by show’s end.

        Quote  Reply

    78. HighGarden Harlot,

      She has info regarding the Riverrun plot that directly contradicts what you are saying. Why is it you think she would respond like this if she simply didn’t know what was happening in this storyline?

        Quote  Reply

    79. mau:
      When I think about that it makes sense for Sansa to turn her eyes on the Riverlands in S7.

      Who will defeat the Freys? And I mean politically, with an army. Arya can’t. Jon doesn’t have an emotional connection. Blackfish is too small character for that.

      Only Sansa. She looks like Cat, they made so many parallels between two of them in the show.
      So yes. Sanasa taking the Riverrun is something that narrativelymakes the most sense in my opinion

      I have always thought this might happen. I think they may have played up her brutal treatment by Ramsay to make her vengeful Sansa Stoneheart behaviour believable. I don’t think she’ll be an undead Sansa, so not really expecting much of Beric

        Quote  Reply

    80. Matt,

      It is not. It is ridiculous for such important thing to be occurring for 2 seasons and no one said anything about that.

      And it is not just Brienne’s comment. Walder Frey said the same, and we heard about that in S4E3.

        Quote  Reply

    81. mau,

      I disagree. It makes more sense to assume based on what we know, not making up what we think will happen because so many ppl are completely over-obsessed with S6 being “TWOW’s story”

        Quote  Reply

    82. Matt: outlaws/BwB/whatever taking back Riverrun from the Freys

      Sure, it is a bit of fun speculation. But one thing is for sure….Freys must die. Arya or Sansa may ultimately get the big Frey cheese (Walder) but his minion offspring will be knocked off by the BwB/BF, imho.

        Quote  Reply

    83. New location could easily pass as High Hermitage or Starfall. #gethype #iamofthehype #iwasweanedonhype.

        Quote  Reply

    84. mau:

      It is not. It is ridiculous for that important thing to be occurring for 2 seasons and no one said anything about that.

      And it is not just Brienne’s comment. Walder Frey said the same, and we heard about than in S4E3.

      Smacks of retcon, I know. Though “Freys holding/controlling Riverrun” could maaaaaybe be charitably interpreted as holding the fief, as in being the rightful rulers of Riverrun and all its lands, getting taxes, etc.

      Could work… sort of… kinda… if you squint real hard.

        Quote  Reply

    85. Jeff O’Connor (JeffZero on some sites!):

      Oh Season 3, you were so good. And yet you were also the proverbial Garden of Bones for so many characters whose fates seem likelier and likelier to remain unknown by show’s end.

      Not true at all.

      We got Kevan, Lancel and Jaqen H’ghar last season. In S4 we saw Janos Slynt, Alliser Thorne, Lysa Arryn and her son again.

      In S6 we already know that we will see Rickon, Osha, Walder Frey, Bran,…

        Quote  Reply

    86. Mr Fixit,

      It won’t work in any way. If they were holding the siege of Riverrun during S5 and S4 and no one said anything about that that would make a chatastophical pacing problem.

      I don’t know why would they use that plot in S6 in any way, except If they, as I said, simply don’t have the material, because GRRM don’t know what to do with his characters that much, except their endgames.

        Quote  Reply

    87. mau: Not true at all.

      We got Kevan, Lancel and Jaqen H’ghar last season. In S4 we saw Janos Slynt, Alliser Thorne, Lysa Arryn and her son again.

      In S6 we already know that we will see Rickon, Osha, Walder Frey, Bran,…

      I won’t lie — you’ve done a worthy job of reassuring me, to a point. (Did we get confirmation of Walder returning, though? I’d forgotten, if so.) But Gendry, the Blackfish, Edmure, and the Brotherhood are all missing. I do see what you’re saying, that I should not worry overmuch because the show has done a novel job of bringing back temporarily-vanished characters in the past.

        Quote  Reply

    88. Mr Fixit,

      Makes more sense to me than what most seem to believe. Plus I got the source material on my side, so… ya know… that’s really all there is to it until we learn more.

        Quote  Reply

    89. HighGarden Harlot:
      Sue the Fury,

      So let me get this straight. Just because YOU don’t know something. That is your version of proving it false?

      Great to finally see behind that curtain here.

      Okay….come on guys and gals, give it up. Seems we have been found out for the cult that we are. Next cult meeting is at the IHOP on Sunday night. Be there or be….well you know the penalty for not stepping in line with the cult. I am bringing my special cult mushrooms. See you there. *rolls eyes so far into the sockets they get stuck*

        Quote  Reply

    90. mau,

      It’s as simple as Jaime saying something along the lines of “What? The Freys don’t actually have the RR castle yet? And now you’re sending me to clean up that mess?” That’s how it’s addressed in the books, essentially- the Freys besieging RR and sucking at it. If anything, the time since S3 will only highlight that aspect.

        Quote  Reply

    91. I really liked Jaime’s Riverrun chapters, and am happy to see them show up, no matter if the Freys need to suddenly lose their castle. “Blackfish is pissed” is a good enough explanation.

      I think really what this means is we will find out the outcome of the cliffhanger from ADWD this season, when we see the show’s version.

        Quote  Reply

    92. Mihnea:
      JCDavis,

      I kinda forgot. But is it my turn to bring the sacrifice?

      Also whos turn is it to brings the pizza?

      I’ll bring the pizza. Friend of mine bakes it up just right ‘n calls it “Frey Pie”.

      Not sure what that’s about, but we’ll be having Frey Pie this week.

        Quote  Reply

    93. mau: When I think about that it makes sense for Sansa to turn her eyes on the Riverlands in S7.

      Who will defeat the Freys? And I mean politically, with an army. Arya can’t. Jon doesn’t have an emotional connection. Blackfish is too small character for that.

      Only Sansa. She looks like Cat, they made so many parallels between two of them in the show.

      So yes. Sanasa taking the Riverrun is something that narratively makes the most sense in my opinion.

      If they write AFFC plot for the siege of Riverrun in S6, BF can escape and unite with Sansa in S7, after Sansa, Jon and Rickon take WF. Maybe that will happen in the books also.

      I also think there is a strong possibility for Sansa to end up in the Riverlands, but I think it might already happen at the end of season 6.

      It actually make a lot of sense for Littlefinger and Sansa to go to the Riverlands. Littlefinger is the Lord of Harrenhal and Sansa has a claim to the Riverlands and the Vale. Strategically the Vale and the Riverlands are right next to each other, it much easier then going North with an army in the Winter.

      I might be wrong but I think there is a possibility that Littlefinger and perhaps the Vale army or a contingent of the Vale army arrives at Winterfell very early in the season. But when they arrive at Winterfell they learn that the Boltons have already defeated Stannis and that Sansa is gone. They basically have to leave Winterfell, on their way back to the Vale they connect with Sansa again, and Littlefinger decides to push Sansa’s claim for the Riverlands. The Riverlands is also closer to Kings Landing, with the power vacuum left in the capital it would be really good for Littlefinger to be closer to Kings Landing. We also know that Arya will go to the Riverlands, so there will be a lot of action and characters coming together in the Riverlands and in the North.

      From a narrative perspective season 7 could lead to a very interesting conflict, by the time that Dany arrives in Westeros the Starks might actually be in-charge, of almost half of the kingdom. This could potentially lead to a very emotional conflict between two “good” factions.

        Quote  Reply

    94. JCDavis: Okay….come on guys and gals, give it up.Seems we have been found out for the cult that we are.Next cult meeting is at the IHOP on Sunday night.Be there or be….well you know the penalty for not stepping in line with the cult. I am bringing my special cult mushrooms.See you there.*rolls eyes so far into the sockets they get stuck*

      AND TO THINK, I LET YOU ON MY BOAT!!!!!

        Quote  Reply

    95. Jeff O’Connor (JeffZero on some sites!),

      If they are really doing the plot from AFFC you will see again Edmure and Blackfish. I think we will see them for sure even if they are not doing AFFC plot.

      I think we will see Gendry in S7. Arya will return to the Riverlands at the end of S6, so it makes sense to see her reunion with him in S7.

      And about BwB, I think they served their purpose in this version of the story. Maybe we will see some of them on S7 with Arya in the Riverlands, or Walder Frey will simply tell Jaime this season that they hunted and killed them all.

        Quote  Reply

    96. mau:
      Mr Fixit,

      It won’t work in any way. If they were holding the siege of Riverrun during S5 and S4 and no one said anything about that that would make a chatastophical pacing problem.

      Why would it be a pacing problem? No more than, say, 9-12 months have passed since the end of Season 3. It is not at all strange for a siege to last that long. I agree that it is odd no one mentioned anything about it in the meantime and I definitely agree that it’s a retcon, but I don’t think it’s some catastrophic problem. 99% of the audience will take it in stride.

        Quote  Reply

    97. Mr Fixit,

      Why does it smell of retcon to you? It is a genuine question. If I remember correctly it is you who initially asked for speculation on this point a couple of days ago in a different thread.

      The reason why I’m asking that is because as far as we know (from the script) from the famed 2 discussions about the Freys and Riverrun:

      1. Brienne had no idea in that discussion who Cat’s sister is to begin with and why they should go to the Vale. It was Pod who clarified that for her. Whatever makes you think she’d have any more actual knowledge about Riverrrun rather than what she assumed is the outcome of the RW.

      2. The peasant who talks about the Freys “having” the Riverlands is literally saying the Frey’s are “raiding our lands”. I won’t insult you by giving a definition of what to raid means, but it is highly likely one may understand from that sentence that the Freys do NOT in fact hold the Riverlands. If they would, they would not be attacking the Riverlands but defending them as something they hold. I know, lol it’s semantics, but enough of people here play on it to suit their own speculation so obviously, I thought I should be doing the same :p

        Quote  Reply

    98. mau:
      Jeff O’Connor (JeffZero on some sites!),

      If they are really doing plot from AFFC you will see again Edmure and Blackfish. I think we will see them for sure even if they are not doing AFFC plot.

      I think we will see Gendry in S7. Arya will return to the Riverlands at the end of S6, so it makes sense to see her reunion with him in S7.

      And about BwB, I think they served their purpose in this version of the story. Maybe we will see some of them on S7 with Arya in the Riverlands, or Walder Frey will simply tell Jaime this season that they huntedand kill them all.

      Aye, as much as I love the Brotherhood without Banners, I think if we never saw them again it really wouldn’t be the end of the world. I agree that they served their purpose. (“Look what Thoros can do! Look what the Lord of Light can do! Fascinating, right? Perhaps this will be relevant someday…!”)

      I just miss them so much. They’re just… so… cool.

        Quote  Reply

    99. Matt:
      mau,

      It’s as simple as Jaime saying something along the lines of “What? The Freys don’t actually have the RR castle yet? And now you’re sending me to clean up that mess?” That’s how it’s addressed in the books, essentially- the Freys besieging RR and sucking at it. If anything, the time since S3 will only highlight that aspect.

      It doesn’t matter what he is going to say. The point is what feels natural in this version of the story.

      We saw the siege of Riverrun in AFFC, but we knew from ASOS that Blackfish is holding that castle.

      Everything happened right after RW, and it felt natural.

      In the show it would feel out of place if they say that Blackfish was in Riverrun since the end of S3.

        Quote  Reply

    100. Jeff O’Connor (JeffZero on some sites!): I’ll bring the pizza. Friend of mine bakes it up just right ‘n calls it “Frey Pie”.

      Not sure what that’s about, but we’ll be having Frey Pie this week.

      May I join? We can continue our conversation on DS9! You know, the one we started in a completely different virtual space? 😉

        Quote  Reply

    101. Tir Airgid,

      OMG! Tir is ALIVE! ALIVE I tell ya 😀

      I’m so happy you got a chance to visit. Saw the pic with the

      empty green screen where you said there was a ship’s prow at fleabottom forum. Too bad you were shoooed before taking an actual pic of it!!!! Thank you for everything you posted! it looks awesome.

      We’ll freak out together XO I suspect we’ll see soon NWC pics there. I’m sorry you didn’t get a chance to stay longer but even from across the ocean it sounds like you had a great day there.

        Quote  Reply

    102. mau,

      Ok, it doesn’t have to be Jaime saying something, I’m just saying it’s not this big “pacing problem” that you think it is. Three years has not passed by in the show’s story.

        Quote  Reply

    103. Mr Fixit: May I join? We can continue our conversation on DS9! You know, the one we started in a completely different virtual space?

      Holy crap — it’s YOU! 😛

      Sorry I haven’t replied yet, I’ve been sick as hell all week. Mostly I’ve just been… well… rewatching Game of Thrones.

      …yes, you can join! Fellow Trek/BioWare fans can eat all the Frey they want! (A mixed blessing, to be sure.)

        Quote  Reply

    104. TormundsWoman,

      It’s likely a retcon because we’ve had several conversations in the shows that should’ve gone a bit differently had Blackfish remained in control of Riverrun. For one, in 3×10 Walder and Roose outright state that BF is on the run, but that that it doesn’t matter because he has no allies. Later Brienne says that Walder Frey holds Riverrun. You can insist that she’s wrong, but I doubt D&D would write those lines if they always planned to have BF hold Riverrun.

      In my opinion, it is a retcon, but as I said, it doesn’t overly bother me. It can be explained by some mental gymnastics and it’s not as if Riverrun and Blackfish per se are supremely important.

        Quote  Reply

    105. Mr Fixit: Why would it be a pacing problem? No more than, say, 9-12 months have passed since the end of Season 3. It is not at all strange for a siege to last that long. I agree that it is odd no one mentioned anything about it in the meantime and I definitely agree that it’s a retcon, but I don’t think it’s some catastrophic problem.

      Because in our lives 3 years have passed and the show gave us information that, politically speaking, everything about Riverlands was over in S3.

      I’m not a book purist at all, but I think that we got to the point where D&D are too successful and they can think that they could do that an no one would care.

      But it would seem as a poor planning and a poor pacing.

      They just can’t return to the plot that is naturally happening right after RW and write that plot now.

      Every event has its natural place in the story. If you start juggle with them, then the show won’t feel as a natural story,but it will be just a compilation of events from the books.

      But judging by this thread they can do that. Book readers will be happy to see that, and show watcher are already confused most of the time, so they won’t care.

      Thiy show is too sucesuful for its own good.

        Quote  Reply

    106. Ooooh pizza, I’m in. Jeff’s friend’s ones might not be suitable for vegetarians tho’. That might make a good tactic if you’re laying siege to somewhere. Don’t use up all your valuable ammunition, sit around just out of harm’s reach with a yummy picnic and look like you’re having a great time. Wear the other side down with envy 😀

        Quote  Reply

    107. Chinoiserie,

      It could be done as a night scene (unlikely as the book scene was in daylight and it would need to be visible from Riverrun) or as part of a green/blue screen CGI scene that adds in the castle, siege camp etc

        Quote  Reply

    108. Matt,

      It is a big pacing problem if after the most memorable event in this story no one said anything about the Freys.

      It would make sense if there wasn’t anything to say. They just ruled. But if they were in the war all this time…

      So, there was a war in Westeros and no one spoke anything about that for 2 seasons?LOL

        Quote  Reply

    109. mau:

      So, there was a war in Westeros and no one spoke anything about that for 2 seasons?LOL

      There needn’t have been a war. It’s just a long siege to mop up the last of the Tully resistance in the Riverlands.

        Quote  Reply

    110. mau,

      It’s not really a war if it’s one-sided…

      The rest of the realm is expecting the Freys to have the Riverlands under control relatively quickly. That’s why Jaime is sent there with a Lannister army! Because the Freys did not take care of something that should have been a cake walk! The Blackfish is a pesky, old, tough son of a bitch that will not go down quietly and will cause the Freys as much unrest as possible for what they did! How does it not make sense that they can (and will) believably make this a part of the show?!?!?! LOL

      Cannot wait to find out who is right and who is wrong about this.

        Quote  Reply

    111. mau:
      Boudica,

      Sansa and LF were seen at WF set, so they will be in the North in S6.

      Yes, I know which is why I said Littlefinger arrives at Winterfell early in season 6.

      He was planning to rally the Vale to which ever army between the Boltons and Stannis came out ahead, or to defeat the Boltons once they were weakened from the attack against Stannis.
      My speculation was that he might arrive at Winterfell early in season 6, but he finds that the Boltons are stronger then ever and that Sansa has escaped. His plans are forfeited, after these findings he has to go back to the Vale and perhaps he finds Sansa or Sansa finds him on his way back to the Vale outside of Winterfell. After they are together again, they move onto the Riverlands, or they make plans to go and claim the Riverlands.

        Quote  Reply

    112. haha great news todayy.

      I just want to know by sue if her know that lots of spoilers L7R said they know and they cant tell beacause its too much.

      i just want to know if that information of they are true, they really know this much??and if You Sue, already know whatt it is??

      I just want Yes or No for these 2 questions, no need to tell what it is or explanation.

      =)

        Quote  Reply

    113. Matt:
      mau,
      Cannot wait to find out who is right and who is wrong about this.

      First of all, everything I said wasn’t my prediction what will happen, but my opinion what should happen.

      D&D can find a way to write that plot in a natural way, I’m sure. So, I will wait.

      But I’m very sceptical about that. 2 seasons after RW no one mentioned anything about the siege, and now we should just buy that that was happening all along?

      I’m sorry. I don’t want that. I don’t want this show to be a compilation of events from the books, where they put plots when they find time for them, no matter what makes sense.

      But, as I said, I will wait. I really want them to convince me about that in S6.

        Quote  Reply

    114. mau:
      I’m sorry. I don’t want that. I don’t want this show to be a compilation of events from the books, where they put plots when they find time for them, no matter what makes sense.

      Well they gotta make due when they only have ten hours per year to tell this story.

        Quote  Reply

    115. TormundsWoman,
      Thank you, sister! It was really great

      About the ship: i got to see what looked like the masts of a ship built against a greenscreen, but didn’t catch a glimpse of a prow.

      Will totally join you for a RR NCW sighting freakout fest but bewarned… maybe I’m just a wight now 😉

        Quote  Reply

    116. Matt,

      I know they must, but they should then change the context of that siege. If they really want that plot, for some reason, they can say that BF recently took the castle by outlaws and his loyalists, and everything could be the same.

      And then Jaime will go to the Riverlands just after that event and it would feel natural.

        Quote  Reply

    117. Mihnea,

      I think these kinds of sites make up basically all of the fandom. Only 5-10% of the show’s audience, yes, but sites like WotW ARE the fandom.

        Quote  Reply

    118. Not to be all superfan snooty but LOL at the “news” on the internet today about Melanie Liburd being cast as a red priestess.

        Quote  Reply

    119. Tyrion Pimpslap:
      Matt,

      I guess they are trying to connect her character to Jon Snow? Funny.

      I saw an article that was convinced that Ms. Liburd is a recast Melusandre because there apparently is only one Red Priestess.

        Quote  Reply

    120. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      Of course they will…eventually. The Red Temple must know about Mel’s actions, directly or indirectly. My heavily-disparaged thoughts on the previous Liburd thread will be vindicated! 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    121. Boudica,

      The Boltons can’t be “stronger than ever” after that battle. Even if they took minimal casualties, they would still, necessarily, have fewer men than they had before. If Littlefinger has an army in the North and Sansa in his possession, it makes no sense for him to turn around (and in any event, there is absolutely no indication of any Vale involvement in the Riverlands; for that matter, if the Vale was invading the Riverlands, you would expect Jaime would be dealing with that instead of hanging around Riverrun with some Freys).

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    122. HighGarden Harlot,

      You come in here and throw a crazy plot point saying you have sources. Why should we believe you over the hundreds of bullshitters that say Stoneheart is in season 6? Both “leak”s have the same amount of evidence (nothing) and sound like someone from Westeros.org’s wet dream. Sorry, but nobody will believe you or take you seriously unless you make a small effort and send Sue your info- which I honestly doubt you have anyway.

        Quote  Reply

    123. Hodor’s Bastard,

      I know directly from several people involved in production that in season 6 Frodo will reach Riverlands and turn off the matrix. The only way to defeat the Night King of Nazguls.

        Quote  Reply

    124. Son of Hodor,

      Spoilers brother, spoilers! But you forget that the matrix is protected by the Lizard King, who secretly moved the on/off switch to the Dark Tower, which of course is guarded by the Knight in White Satin and his walrus. Doesn’t look good for Frodo at all.

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    125. Sean C.,

      Very minor issue, but the Boltons could be “stronger than ever” after the battle if certain houses were hedging their support due to the presence of a large Baratheon army in the North. Battles can and do help the victors solidify and strengthen their power. It’s certainly possible that a Karstark force arrives to pledge their support to the Boltons early in the season.

        Quote  Reply

    126. mau,

      I’d imagine this is how it will go down, to present the situation as a siege that’s been ongoing for a long time without any earlier mention of it would be spectacularily stupid.

        Quote  Reply

    127. Mr Fixit:
      TormundsWoman,
      For one, in 3×10 Walder and Roose outright state that BF is on the run, but that that it doesn’t matter because he has no allies. Later Brienne says that Walder Frey holds Riverrun.

      This is what Walder Frey says to old dead man Tully (to Roose actually but addressing it rhetorically to his former Lord) right after the RW in 3X10:

      “The late Walder Frey,” old Tully called me because I didn’t get my men to the Trident in time for battle. He thought he was witty.

      Look at us now, Tully. You’re dead, your daughter’s dead, your grandson’s dead, your son spent his wedding night in a dungeon and I’m Lord of Riverrun. The Blackfish escaped. An old man on the run with no allies.

      I always took the “on the run” to mean escaped from the RW, on the run from the Twins. I never took it out of context of that specific conversation to say: he didn’t run back to Riverrun, which was a Tully stronghold.

      Also Walder calls himself Lord of Riverrun (because the Lannister gave him that title as service to the crown) when in fact he has yet to actually take hold of the castle. Of course he could totally have LF’s jetpack to teleport himself to the Tully castle 😛

      Mr Fixit:
      TormundsWoman,
      Later Brienne says that Walder Frey holds Riverrun. You can insist that she’s wrong, but I doubt D&D would write those lines if they always planned to have BF hold Riverrun.

      Am I insisting? I try not to when I am speculating to be honest because I have a horrible track record of it. I thought I was just suggesting her words (straight from the scene):

      Her mother’s dead, grandfather’s dead, Walder Frey is the new lord of Riverrun.

      might not actually mean that Walder got the castle. More like he has the title. LF was named Lord of Harrenhal too, however he did not hold the castle at the time it was given to him IIRC.

      Look, personally I think that they handled Brienne’s line brilliantly. They wanted her to go to the Vale and have a showdown with the Hound which turned out one of the highlights of the season. They couldn’t just do that if she had another more sensible option, so they had her going through them and discard everything that makes little sense. Going to Riverrun would have been the other option if they openly acknowledged that BF had the castle. So what did they do? They left it up in the air. She is not saying an untruth since the Frey IS awarded the title of Lord of the Riverrun, but it also doesn’t necessarily mean she knows anything about the state of affairs.

      I don’t see it as retcon if they really do go back to the Feast material, which not certain actually, but I would like to see the siege because personally I believe it would make great television.

      And now that I made a wall of text, I feel much better LOL It’s been a while since I’ve done that. And I agree, the Riverlands situation is not the nexus of all things, and neither is BF. However, Jaime Lannister is headed that way. So I’m definitely more than a little interested.

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    128. Tir Airgid,

      So you think

      it is possible that’s where they might film someone who is on a ship? Could the landscape be similar to a certain Reach coast I wonder. Ahh, Pilou Asbaek (Euron) filming back to back to NWC, that would be a treat just to think on it!

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    129. The ship is a permanent feature at Linen Mill Studios, it seems. Not really indicative of them filming at the moment.

      But they’ve used it before and if they film Euron on a ship this year, it’s like they used that one again.

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    130. Thomas Sandstone:
      Tyrion Pimpslap,

      Admit to what exactly? Opinions are not facts and that is the beauty of them. If you didn’t like anything from Dorne then fine, but that doesn’t make what you say fact. And even if the majority of the fandom agreed with you, it still doesn’t make it fact. I have no idea why you felt the need to include that bit and immediately follow it up with a statement of it being your opinion.

      But facts are not opinions either.

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    131. Hahaha…this High Garden Harlot person sound a lot like that doofus…I can’t remember the exact SN…but “Throbbing” was in it. You know, the person who “knew” D&D’s original plans for Sansa in Winterfell and other utter bullshit? Either it’s the same person, or the troll-apples don’t fall far from the tree (bridge would be more appropriate) in terms of, post bad fan fiction as fact, get indignant when asked for some sort of proof, then proceed to start lashing out when no one believes them, lather, rinse, repeat.

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    132. I’m actually a little shocked as to the extent people are explaining away the lines that the writers themselves have written which establish (very simply and quickly) the state of Riverrun in the show. The show purposely put Blackfish in an “on the run” state which parallels his “on the run” state in the books. The show purposely mentioned that Walder Frey was the new Lord of Riverrun. Twice. The show will not negate its own setups, as I’ve stated many times before. We are not supposed to infer wrongness from what Brienne said – they were simple lines designed to get us to understand the current situation in the Riverlands. Based on this setup, the show COULD in fact pick up by having Blackfish *return* from somewhere with allies in tow, but I don’t think they’re going to have us believe he’s been holding the place for over a year or more without us hearing anything about it. And I really do think whatever they’re going to do at Riverrun is going to start and end in one season, so I think by the end we will in fact be into WoW territory, even if it SEEMS to start in AFFC.

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    133. Why are you all so sure that they`re doing the exact storyline from book 4? It could be a mixture of Jaimes AFFC storyline and whatever happens there in TWOW similary like what they seem to do with Theon and the kingsmoot. I`m more interested how Sandor, the Outlaws and Ian McShane play into all of this.

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    134. Sue the Fury,

      I see. Thanks for the explanation. It sounded pretty cool having Euron on a ship right at the back of the Riverrun set.

      kit_hepburn,

      I only see myself explaining with quotes what my take on those specific scene was. That’s because my momma always said since I was small that people tend to see things differently, may listen but hear different things from the same movie scene and interpret book paragraphs as they understood it. It’s all subjective I’m told when it comes to art. She knew what she was talking about.

      And thus she said I should be polite and explain why I see things a different way so I can make myself understood and not to assume everyone has the same view as mine (that’s the opposite of what you’re doing right now: lumping us all together and dismissing everyone who didn’t interpret the scene like you did).

      At the end of the day, this is what we do. Sit and dissect everything GoT related, send drones to see the area where GoT films. We’re all nerds.

      I honestly don’t understand the shock.

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    135. ANiceChianti:
      Thomas Sandstone,

      And yet, if it weren’t for this show, casting directors everywhere would be like, “Kit who? Never heard of her.”

      Actually, if they pay attention to theatre at all, they’d be like, ‘Oh yeah, that kid who played the main character in the original cast of War Horse in the West End.’

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    136. Pigeon:
      God of tits and wine,

      I’m willing to bet that the aforementioned soccer star has turned down a few autographs in real life (unless he’s not that famous, I really have no idea).

      Maybe Kit wanted 5 minutes of peace. He doesn’t owe anyone a thing because a show he’s on got popular. It’s nice when celebs are so accommodating to fans, but there’s a limit.

      Agreed. Everyone is entitled to a bad day. Most of us would be having them frequently, I daresay, if we couldn’t walk 50 feet in any public place without being pestered for a selfie.

        Quote  Reply

    137. TormundsWoman,

      I’d just be surprised with the show putting the action squarely back at the beginning of AFFC with Blackfish already there. And surprised because it’s splitting hairs between saying, “yeah he’s probably going to show up” versus “he’s been there all along” when nothing about the lines in showverse suggests that the latter is what has been going on. I mean, within an episode he could in fact turn up at Riverrun and create a situation *similar* to the beginning of AFFC, but not identical… I just don’t see why it has to be identical when the show has written several lines suggesting it’s not identical. That’s all.

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    138. mau: The only reason why they would (in some form) use plot from AFFC is to create filler.

      Aren’t you the guy who made a big issue of people making statements like this without adding ‘I think’ or ‘in my opinion’?

        Quote  Reply

    139. kit_hepburn,

      I don’t think the show has made it clear enough that the (book)Siege of Riverrun is not how it’s going to go down, so until further evidence presents itself I simply cannot believe it’ll happen otherwise. Nothing that has or hasn’t been said about Riverrun since S3 is strong enough evidence against the book version of that plot.

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    140. Hodor’s Bastard: ! But you forget that the matrix is protected by the Lizard King, who secretly moved the on/off switch to the Dark Tower, which of course is guarded by the Knight in White Satin and his walrus. Doesn’t look good for Frodo at all.

      Fear not. I have it on very good authority (whose identity I can divulge to no one, least of all Sue) that en route to the Dark Tower, Frodo will be joined by the Knights Who Say Nih! (arriving by eagle, of course). Together they will overwhelm the Tower’s defenses and reach the Matrix’s off switch with .015 seconds left on the countdown clock.

      Unfortunately, on the return trip Frodo will let down his guard and accidentally wander into the middle of a melee between Marvel and DC Comics superheroes, trip over Green Arrow’s foot, fall into a ravine and break his neck. In the afterlife he will find himself in a foggy King’s Cross Station, where Professor Dumbledore will sign a permission slip for him to go back through the magical wardrobe that leads to District 12, the Isle of Avalon, the Emerald City, Ankh-Morpork and points West.

        Quote  Reply

    141. mau,

      Filler isn’t always bad. It depends on the filler’s effect on the story and the characters. If a two episode Riverrun arc gives Jaime much needed character development (because he’s only been going backwards since season 3), than I’m all for it. And besides, like it or not- they need a reason to pull Jaime to the Riverlands. They could invent something, or they could take an arc which was very powerful from the books and put it on screen without all the in-between (walking around the Riverlands doing nothing, visiting Rosby and Harrenhal and wherever else). Just cut straight to Jenna and Emmon Frey camping outside Riverrun which is retaken by the Blackfish and use Edmure as well. This also gives us some closure for those characters, which pretty much had to turn up at some point or they’d pull a Benjen (which to me as a viewer would be very frustrating).

      Assuming Jaime’s future in TWOW is in the Riverlands, I think this was a great choice by D&D- however odd the continuity gets.

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    142. I think Mau mentioned further upthread that it is hard to think about the BF disappearing yet again if we went back to mostly book material around Riverrun.
      However, given that we haven’t seen neither BF nor the BWB since season 3 this plot can be used to re-introduce both of them. So,

      while they might disappear from inside RR (again)

      it could just be used to have them participate more throughout season 6 and with other/TWOT storylines.

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    143. Firannion,

      L o L ! I think we have our next Tolkien! Riveting! Where can I order?

      Seriously….won’t there be eagles to save Frodo when he falls into the ravine? There must be eagles…or at least giant pigeons.

      More seriously…didn’t Covenant take Frodo’s ring and give it to his daughter, Elena? Elena might be the wildcard here, unless she is still trapped in the 3rd hocrux.

      Ludicrously seriously…I think Snape did it. And don’t trust Luna Lovegood now that Thor is a woman.

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    144. God of tits and wine,

      For the last three years he has taken pictures with everybody who asked for it, and then he was a sweetheart. There are literally thousands of pictures of him with fans. This year he is a douche because he has declined to do so, I’m sure under orders of the producers!

      If you consider the lack of privacy this guy has had in the last 5 months and the pressure he has been under, you can certainly understand his remarks about the show being a blessing and a pain at the same time. He has said that the money he earns is not for acting in the show (for he loves it) but for dealing with the lack of privacy.

      Scores of people have been “on the watch” following and recording his every move, the length of his hair and his do. He cannot even fart without the whole world knowing about it. He has been repeatedly called stupid (for giving a particular answer to a Belgian magazine very few people knew about until he said something -or maybe not, for Maisie Williams said that was fabricated!-); he has also been called a liar and rude, in stark contrast to what people who have known him for a long time say of him (e.g., Owen Teele’s interview in Greece back un June or July).

      About the soccer player there are other possibilities: he said he asked politely… did he really? We only have his word for it. Maybe he was increadibly inoportune, or even rude, and wouldn’t let go, thinking that because he is a “famous” fan he deserves more attention than anyone else; or maybe he just wanted to have his 15 minutes of fame at the expense of another famous personality who has no Twitter or FB accounts, so he cannot respond to other people’s abuses. Go figure…

        Quote  Reply

    145. jentario:
      mau,

      They could invent something, or they could take an arc which was very powerful from the books and put it on screen without all the in-between (walking around the Riverlands doing nothing, visiting Rosby and Harrenhal and wherever else). Just cut straight to Jenna and Emmon Frey camping outside Riverrun which is retaken by the Blackfish and use Edmure as well. This also gives us some closure for those characters, which pretty much had to turn up at some point or they’d pull a Benjen (which to me as a viewer would be very frustrating).

      Darry, where Lancel was/is. Btw, where’s Red Ronnet dammit!!! I wanna see Jaime bitch slap someone with his golden hand!

      But on a more serious note, I too would be extreeeeemely frustrated if we don’t get all of those Riverland characters back. Specifically the BwB and Gendry, b/c it looks like we’ll get BF and Edmure

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    146. Firannion: If I ran a pizzeria, on Sunday evenings during GoT season I would offer a Frey Pie Special: your choice of three meat toppings for the price of one.

      That’s more like it!

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    147. Pigeon: O_O

      How about the fantasy world’s most gigantic puffball mushroom lurking at the bottom of the ravine, which serves as a trampoline? But then, he wouldn’t get to meet Dumbledore…

        Quote  Reply

    148. Firannion: How about the fantasy world’s most gigantic puffball mushroom lurking at the bottom of the ravine, which serves as a trampoline?But then, he wouldn’t get to meet Dumbledore…

      Good point….my pigeon brethren and I accept this challenge and will take the small, hairy-footed beastie to the wizard!

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    149. The “gallows” appears to have wheels on the bottom. While this maybe for ease of use in filming, the rest of the siege equipment has the same type of wheels. The “gallows” might just be the base of a siege tower, with the rest CGI’d in, or yet to be built.

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    150. Rygritte: and plot revenge in the potty.

      Excellent! That’s exactly how I plan each meeting with my ex-inlaws.

      Pigeon,

      [Sorry, my original response is STILL awaiting moderation! Apologies if duplicated]

      Hah! My attempt to draw you out has succeeded! 😈
      I agree that you should be worried about Jorah for S6.

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    151. Hodor’s Bastard,

      *pokes beak around corner warily*….

      Ah yes, dear Jorah. I was certain he’d kick it last season, and instead he kicked ass. Hmm. This is the problem with not being able to cheat and read ahead to see when and how your favourite bites it. I just consider every episode a bonus, hope for the best, and expect the worst. 2/3rds of my top 3 have made it this far, and the third isn’t quite dead (although it may be difficult for him to go for a walk just yet). “I don’t WANT to go in the cart!”

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    152. Pigeon: “I don’t WANT to go in the cart!”

      Oh, what I would give to hear “Bring out yer dead!” in the slums of Flea Bottom or the pale mare-infested outskirts of Meereen!

        Quote  Reply

    153. Hodor’s Bastard: Oh, what I would give to hear “Bring out yer dead!” in the slums of Flea Bottom or the pale mare-infested outskirts of Meereen!

      *honk honk*

      Or the Sparrows whacking themselves in the forehead with boards.

      Or even better, a Black Knight sketch. 😀

        Quote  Reply

    154. Pigeon,

      Yeah agree, it is bad enough with Paparazzi and now general public with smartphones are the same thing now so for mine it is good to do these sort of things st comic con and season launch but not outside of that

      Especially during filming, where there is intense month long battle scene and they just want to let their hair down (lol) an de-stress at a local bar or whatever

      I can understand Kits perspecrive re his career, it has shot up due to his profile as is the case with other stars but with all the hair cutting issues and filming schedule he is somewhat inhibited from taking up other roles and diversifying

      Good he is still engaged with a highly popular show though, the bloodrider from season 2 may have done better to stick around than do a seasonal transporter film soon forgotton

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    155. HighGarden Harlot:
      Sue the Fury,

      So let me get this straight. Just because YOU don’t know something. That is your version of proving it false?

      Great to finally see behind that curtain here.

      Dude… this site is number one with verified GOT insider info. Nothing else on the web compares. You came in with fan fic. Sue dismissed it out of hand. You have nothing. If you did, she’d of confirmed it and gave you credit. BUT, you don’t have anything, so she set the record straight.

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    156. The construction on the right looks like the base of a Trebuchet (Tribok, Blide whatever you wanna call it). The Shields support that this is some kind of a Siege-line. But I have no Idea what the other constructions are.

      The big one in the center may become the plattform with the Gallow where Edmure has to go every day for to be seen..

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    157. SlayerNina,

      No. They are sub-humans, unlike the enlighted book-readers.

      They remenbered Kevan, who had 1 scene in season 1. So yes they will remenber, them.

      They are not stupid, as you would make them out to be.

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    158. Mihnea,

      It was a legitimate question. I had people asking who’s Benjen in 5×10.

      What’s your fucking problem? Anyone comenting the show is automatically a booknazi to you. And yes, Mihnea, the show this season SUCKED.

      THE.

      SHOW.

      IS.

      NOT.

      PERFECT.

      AND.

      PEOPLE.

      CAN.

      CRITICIZE.

      IT.

      THE.

      SHOW.

      IS.

      NOT.

      PERFECT.

      AND.

      PEOPLE.

      CAN.

      CRITICIZE.

      IT.

      THE.

      SHOW.

      IS.

      NOT.

      PERFECT.

      AND.

      PEOPLE.

      CAN.

      CRITICIZE.

      IT.

      THE.

      SHOW.

      IS.

      NOT.

      PERFECT.

      AND.

      PEOPLE.

      CAN.

      CRITICIZE.

      IT.

        Quote  Reply

    159. HighGarden Harlot,

      Michelle Fairley has done “one off” roles since she left GoT though. She played an aunt in a one-off British drama “Common”. Jodhi May (Maggi the Frog) and Robert Pugh (Craster) were in it as well. She was an editor in the film “Philomena” so I don’t think she is too pompous to undertake small roles.

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    160. SlayerNina,

      Ah I see, presenting your opinions as fact, once again.

      Criticism is fine, like I pointed even in this thread, if it is said in a polite manner and not presented as fact, and you don’t insult those who do not agree with you.

      But it’s clear to see you are just ranting.

      But I expect nothing less from some one who said that D&D “hate” women..

      EDIT: Even more funny, you are ranting one a fan-site of a TV show you said you would no longer wach.

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    161. The new Frey who was cast for S6 (merrett?) is supposed to be filming for the next two weeks( as per the casting call) so he ll most probably be part of the riverrun shoot!

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    162. StandOzone,

      Yup. Maybe they were waiting for better pictures. The ones that were previously available were truly horrible. These are much clearer, and the construction of the set has advanced a fair bit as well. I can see why they waited this long to publish.

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    163. God of tits and wine,

      I like the expression “cuckoo for cocoa puffs”. I can’t speculate what Kit Harington’s character is like – maybe he did not realise who the football player was and that the story would get out. The relation between a celebrity and the public is a difficult one – Catherine Tate (a British comedienne who was also a Dr Who companion at one time) told a story of how she was in a rush to get to the airport and a lady she met on the way took umbrage because she couldn’t really stop to chat even though if she had done so she would have missed her plane.

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    164. Tatters:
      SlayerNina,

      Can non fans just go away? I would have preferred if not so many people watch the show for no reason.

      Being a fan does not require that one leave one’s critical and analytical faculties at the door. There are plenty of people who look forward with great hope and eagerness to each season, each episode but sometimes find themselves disappointed in one aspect or another of the show. It is not reasonable to expect us not to discuss such issues on a site designed for discussion of the show.

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    165. Firannion,

      Disscussing, yes. Rants and insults, no.

      Does what she posted there look in anyway constructive? Or analytically?

      Hyperbolic statements and opinions thrown as facts, that is all she ever posted. Plus insults to the producers.

      Also she firmly said she will no longer wach the show as the writers ”clearly hate women”, I fail to see why she is here.

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    166. It’s the same thing someone said before on this thread. Audience is not the same as fandom. I have a lot of friends who love GoT but can’t remember every character that has made an appearance on the show.

      Fans, who comment on websites like this one, are more likely to remember all characters, as small as they might be, like Anguy or Grenn or Jhiqui, or whoever.

      Not everyone is THAT involved with GoT, but it doesn’t mean they are unworthy of watching it.

      That said, I have to point out that one of the main problems of the books, IMO, is the excessive number or characters. It’s a good thing the show removes some of them. I love the books and the show, by the way. Please don’t kill me.

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    167. Dolorous Edd,

      The show-watchers will remenber Edmure and Blackfish.
      Maybe not by name, they are hardly major characters, more like tertiary ones, but they will defenetly remenber them as ”Catelyn’s brother/uncle”.

      Just like with Kevan, still doubt most people know his name, but they know he is Tywins brother.

      EDIT: Theres nothing wrong with liking the books and the show, I’m a book-reader and very likely I have read those books more then Nina and Firannion.
      What is wrong, is not accepting that other people may have a different opinion then you, and it is not nice/polite to just insult a thing they like.
      Criticism is also good, and healty, when done in a polite manner, and not stating your opinion as fact, like Nina did here.
      Using hyperbolic statements, and saying everyone who disagrees is not smart enough to realize they are watching a ”bad” ”illogicall” show, is just insulting.

      This went longer then I expected… I’ll stop here tough, as it is off-topic. And frankly I said all I had to say.

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    168. Maybe a weird question, but I wonder why they choose a bridgelocation for Riverrun with such thick hedges on the side. When defending a castle, you always want to have a wide view and all forrestation should be cut. Also, it makes the camerashot of the encampment/castle ugly. And it’s difficult to replace it with CGI because it causes a tremendous ammount of shadow on the scenery. All in all; I don’t get the location choice 🙁

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    169. It’s funny when people who talk about how they don’t want other people to come on these boards and rant, are the ones doing the most ranting.

      Mihnea, this is for you.

      Unrelenting caustic comments, often with no basis in reality.

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    170. Matty C,

      What Nina posted is a rant. Sure, what I posted can be considered a rant too some people, but I fully expected that reaction, especially from a certain group.

        Quote  Reply

    171. Mihnea: The show-watchers will remenber Edmure and Blackfish.
      Maybe not by name, they are hardly major characters, more like tertiary ones, but they will defenetly remenber them as ”Catelyn’s brother/uncle”.

      The audience can be reminded of them with the “previously on” parts well enough that it might work. However, it is not as if they are sitting around wondering “what happened to Catelyn’s family?” at this point. Look at it like this: think back to your 4th year at college/university. Suppose that the lecturer had just started talking about something from a class that you had taken 3 years earlier without having broached the topic since then. You would be flummoxed. That is how this will be for the vast majority of the viewers if they do not re-introduce the Tullys properly. (This holds regardless of whether it is at Riverrun or anywhere else.)

      That written, there has been no indication that either actor is returning. I suspect that they could swap out the Blackfish actor without confusing too many viewers: but Menzies is such a distinctive looking individual and is known to enough viewer as Brutus and Jack/Frank Randall that they might be thrown if someone else takes his role.

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    172. Tatters: Can non fans just go away? I would have preferred if not so many people watch the show for no reason.

      If only fans had watched the show, then it would not have had a second season. Never mind the issue of how any show would get started, but if only fans of shows watched them, then TV would go out of business. TV (like movies and book sales) relies on having a large audience that worries about the show/film/book when it is in front of them, but not otherwise.

      And what it comes down to is this: “I enjoy it” is a perfectly good reason to watch a show.

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    173. Pigeon: Or the Sparrows whacking themselves in the forehead with boards.

      Or even better, a Black Knight sketch.

      Ugh! They already used the kuh-nigguts joke! Oh well, I guess that they’ll have to go with using ducks in Cersei’s trial.

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    174. Mihnea,

      Agree to disagree.

      When a response comes 3 minutes later, and is full of sarcasm and straw men, that is considered jumping down someone’s throat.

      You may not have intended to come off that way, but the reality is what it is.

        Quote  Reply

    175. Firannion,

      He’s specifically describing someone who has previously stated they won’t watch the show any longer. I see the point of criticizing a show you love but hoped was even better (or a show you think was great once but not so much anymore), but I truly can’t see the poing in commenting on a fansite of a show you no longer watch. It mistifies me. What’s the point? Such a negative hobby.

        Quote  Reply

    176. Matty C,

      I don’t see what the problem is that my reply came 3 min after.
      I was checking the site, and saw her comment.

      I also fail to see the straw men here.

      And I hardly think even if my comment was ”agressive”, wich I do not belive, that kind of response was warranted.

        Quote  Reply

    177. Mihnea: After bringing back the original Kevan, who had 1 scene in S1, I doubt they will recast them.

      If they are recast, then it will be because of prior commitments by the actors. I suppose Menzies might price himself out of their range, but HBO pays well for small parts (or so I have read).

      God of tits and wine: I’ll say the same thing that this is gonna be unpopular but I’m starting to think that Kit Harrington is a douche in real life.

      My wife met him and the other Night’s Watch cast a couple of years ago when she and some colleagues were staying at the same hotel in Northern Ireland. She thought that he was quite nice: it turns out Kit had wanted to be a paleontologist when he was young! Of course, Kit was single at the time and eying one of her younger colleagues quite intently, which might have helped. But they were basically people: they talk a lot of “shop” but that is normal. (It could be that because it was two groups of professionals talking two sorts of shop, there was more mutual understanding than typical: the actors were as interested in what my wife and her colleagues do as the other way around!)

      The difference is that when someone getting a camera shoved in his face all the time has a bad day (and we all have them), it gets caught.

        Quote  Reply

    178. Mihnea,

      None of my friends remembered neither Lancel nor Kevan NONE (and I wouldn’t call them sub-humans). I had to explain them who they are and tell them that they were in Season 1 and 2. If you don’t remember that Kevan was in Harrenhal in Season 2 so please don’t expect casual viewers remember him.

      We as book readers remember a lot of characters because we read their names once and once again (however I use to forget several characters). But I bet that although they could recognize Edmure’s or Brynden’s face they won’t remember who they are if they skip the “previously on” and even so… they will have a hard time realizing the role Tullys were playing.

        Quote  Reply

    179. Wimsey: hey already used the kuh-nigguts joke!

      One can never fail with or tire of a Python reference. 250 years from now, residents of Neptune’s Triton will be taunting adventurers from Saturn’s Enceladus with “I fart in your general direction” and “Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberry”. It is human canon.

        Quote  Reply

    180. StandOzone,

      Nothing a bit of dialogue and exposition can’t fix. Also of course the ”previously-on”, after all they are there for a reason.

      Also I would hardly compare Edmure and Blackfish with Lancel, who had changed quite a lot.

      After all Edmure was one of the main-ponts of the RW.

        Quote  Reply

    181. Mihnea,

      Well, when a comment thread of 275+ is literally 25% comments from one person, it can come off that said person is trying to “run” said comment thread. Especially when your responses come within a minute or two of anyone posting anything.

      You also said that SlayerNina was saying show watchers were stupid, which she did not. That is a straw man.

      Additionally, SlayerNina’s response to you, which you were so offended by and was not warranted, was not even insults or vulgarity, it was simply stating truth, which is that this show (nor any show) is not perfect and is allowed to be criticized. If you can’t handle that, I really don’t know what else to say.

      Anyhow, as you have said many, many times before, this is off topic and so I will cease my responses. I do not know this poster from Adam, and am simply tired of reading the same people trying to regulate what everyone else thinks.

        Quote  Reply

    182. StandOzone: But I bet that although they could recognize Edmure’s or Brynden’s face they won’t remember who they are if they skip the “previously on” and even so… they will have a hard time realizing the role Tullys were playing.

      They would recognize Edmure’s face: that’s Brutus’ and Frank/Jack Randall’s face, too! The fact that they left him clean shaven and with relatively short hair made him all the more distinctive: a lot of men look a lot alike under piles of long locks and facial hair.

      As for myself, I don’t think that I would recognize the Blackfish as the Blackfish if I saw him cold. (Darkish longish slightly thinning hair with dark beard?)

        Quote  Reply

    183. Matty C,

      There are many people who criticized the show, wich I had good disscussions.
      Her comments are always presented as fact, and not respecting the other persons opinions, and here I mean all her comments not just this one.

      I was not offended at all, people like that can’t offend me. Was I sarcastic? Yeah. But offended no.

      And I will say this as many times I have too. Ranting and writing the kind of comments she did, is not criticism, it’s simply ranting.

        Quote  Reply

    184. Wimsey: Ugh!They already used the kuh-nigguts joke!Oh well, I guess that they’ll have to go with using ducks in Cersei’s trial.

      I seem to recall Martin using the ‘fart in your general direction’ thing in one of the books, and I thought perhaps I had stayed up too late reading.

      Great, now I’m picturing the Bolton army cutting down every tree in the forest with herrings.

        Quote  Reply

    185. StandOzone,

      This is absolutely my experience. I rewatched a lot of S1/2/3 with friends who describe themselves as “totally obsessed with GOT”. They had a very hard time remembering Blackfish and Edmure. They recognized Edmure from Outlander, but only vaguely remembered what role he’d played in the show. Blackfish had faded into a generic “old northern lords in big capes” kind of vague memory. They didn’t remember Roose was involved in the Red Wedding. I’m sure the market research revealled that people didn’t clearly remember who Benjen was, so they emphasized that in the last episode. (hopefully foreshadowing!) For the Riverrun scenes I think they’ll have to set it up with more central characters talking about Edmure and Blackfish and interacting with them. I will say that my friends clearly remembered Walder Frey. So there’s that at least. I think it’s easy to overestimate how much even “obsessed” fans remember from 4 or 5 years earlier.

        Quote  Reply

    186. Wimsey,

      Yes, you’re right. Edmure has a very distinctive face and as Mihnea pointed out played a central role in the RW. So I guess will be easy to re-introduce him. Blackfish otherwise won’t be that easy.

      But then, people use to forget marginal characters… Benjen, Lancel, Barristan before S3, Rickon, Myrcella. My point is… casual viewers could recognize faces but if not properly written they won’t remember roles.

        Quote  Reply

    187. StandOzone,

      I agree on Blackfish too, but I belive a little bit of dialogue will fix that. After all the BF didn’t do anything of importance this far, if he does do something it would be from now on.
      so the only thing they need to remenber people is that his Catelyns uncle.

      Edmure on the other way, I belive will be easly remenbered, maybe not his name, but someone just mentioning his role in the RW should fix that easly.

        Quote  Reply

    188. Hodor’s Bastard: “Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberry”.

      I can see Jaime saying that to the High Sparrow…..

      StandOzone: casual viewers could recognize faces but if not properly written they won’t remember roles.

      Oh, I agree. In fact, in some ways, it will be more important to remind the audience who Menzies is: too many of them will remember him too well from Rome and Outlander. They need to reset the characterface relation here!

        Quote  Reply

    189. Wimsey,

      I don’t recall, has it been confirmed that Menzies is returning?
      It appears he is very busy with other projects.
      Not sure how I would feel if they would get another actor to play Edmure. His is a face I remember.

        Quote  Reply

    190. Newbietothegame,

      Insofar as I know, nothing has been mentioned about Menzies or the bloke that played Blackfish.

      Of course, one possible explanation is that this is not the Crows siege, but something different that happens in Winter.

        Quote  Reply

    191. Lisa0527,

      They do not do market research quite like that! However, they do know from years of experience what people typically will remember. The answer is (for almost everything): not much! Too much happens in life for most people to clearly recall more than a fraction of it.

        Quote  Reply

    192. Luka Nieto:
      Firannion,

      He’s specifically describing someone who has previously stated they won’t watch the show any longer. I see the point of criticizing a show you love but hoped was even better (or a show you think was great once but not so much anymore), but I truly can’t see the poing in commenting on a fansite of a show you no longer watch. It mistifies me. What’s the point? Such a negative hobby.

      Mihnea was dredging up a heated dispute that she had with SlayerNina many months ago, in a different thread on an entirely different topic, which is entirely unnecessary and frankly not of much interest to most of the rest of us anymore, I think. In my observation, SlayerNina (and several other regulars as well) simply cannot say ANYTHING on this site, even something as innocuous as a rhetorical question, without Mihnea reflexively saying something snarky and hostile about her (speaking of negative hobbies).

      I am clearly not the only person here who is very weary of these types of knee-jerk personal attacks from Mihnea on posters she just doesn’t like. Many of us keep trying to tell her, over and over, whether bluntly or politely, but the effort seems useless. Mihnea refuses to see that she has an attitude problem. Someone else is always to blame when the tone gets ugly in here. Classic narcissistic response.

      As for people who say that they are quitting the show in a heated moment, they have an absolute right to change their minds later on. It is not anybody’s prerogative, other than the mods, to tell them that they can’t post here or to make their time here a living hell. Lots of people throw up their hands in despair when something they love disappoints them severely and swear that they’re done with it, only to reconsider later. Why can’t we just let that old argument go and stick to discussion of what’s germane to this thread?

        Quote  Reply

    193. Abyss: Already sick of this fan fic, I don’t understand why Martin let D&D ruin it.

      Because Martin doesn’t agree with you, obviously.

      The “I will quit the show if…” threats are so puerile. And useless; you’re shouting into the void. The same goes for those who cannot let any criticism of the show stand. I get it if it’s completely unreasonable (“HUR HUR DUMB&DUMBER ARE WRITING FAN FIC” —though they’re usually not quite so eloquent), but the fact is there are plenty of people around here who are reasonable (and polite!) in their criticisms of the show, even if often I don’t agree with them. My point is: No one cares, one way or the other! If you come here to tell us, a Game of Thrones fansite, that Game of Thrones is shit, you will not encounter many friends here; at the same time, if you can’t let any criticism go unanswered, you come off as a exactly the kind of people you are supposedly against. So please, calm down and look for a less negative hobby.

        Quote  Reply

    194. Firannion,

      Well said.

      Abyss,

      I would hardly call it ruined. In my opinion it is still one of best shows on TV. And someone somewhere said “There is always hope”.
      Fan-fic is all we have right now.

        Quote  Reply

    195. Newbietothegame: Fan-fic is all we have right now.

      Actually, what we have is an adaptation. Fan-fiction is (as GRRM himself has noted many times) quite different: ultimately, that is people telling completely different stories with different plots using the same characters and world.

      The goal here is to tell the same story as the books, but adapting the storytelling so that it works on screen. The analogy I have used many times before is adapting vertebrates to live on land from things that began in the sea: if you want a shark on land, you do not just toss one onto a beach; instead, you want a T. rex. This show very much is a TV tyrannosaurid to GRRM’s literary great white.

      (And if you think that keeping it the same can work, well, then I refer you to the first two Harry Potter films. Much like a beached shark, they mostly just stank.)

        Quote  Reply

    196. Mihnea: Matty C,

      I did not ”jumped at her throat”, I just said that the avarage viewer is not as stupid as she thinks.

      You don’t see the irony here?

      What SlayerNina actually said:

      SlayerNina: Show watchers remember who are Brynden or Edmure? Just sayin’.

      No reference here whatsoever to the intelligence of the average viewer; rather, a reasonable person might infer, to the passage of time since the characters last appeared and the tendency for the average viewer to have other concerns and more urgent things to remember, as Wimsey has so eloquently explained. But a perceived opportunity for snark that you just couldn’t pass up, could you?

      When you keep making sarcastic remarks like, “No. They are sub-humans, unlike the enlighted book-readers,” you forfeit the right to lecture other posters about politeness, in my opinion.

      I wish that our interpersonal communications professional were here, because she could explain better than I could that using “always/never” constructions like:

      “Hyperbolic statements and opinions thrown as facts, that is all she ever posted. Plus insults to the producers.”

      “Her comments are always presented as fact, and not respecting the other persons opinions, and here I mean all her comments not just this one.”

      is not conducive to civil dialogue or problem-solving. That’s aside from the fact that what somebody posted in an unrelated thread is not germane to this particular discussion and truly does not need to be brought up every time that particular poster pops in for a visit.

        Quote  Reply

    197. Wimsey: I can see Jaime saying that to the…

      …also I can imagine an awfully snarky standoff between J & the BF, both sitting upon their anxious horses, in mid-span of a certain key drawbridge. That could be an amazing adaptation….but…sadly, it seems there would be a recognition issue among the general viewership. (I disagree for sake of awesomeness!) 😛

        Quote  Reply

    198. Mihnea,

      Indeed. That would be the other kind I mentioned —“HUR HUR DUMB&DUMBER ARE WRITING FAN FIC”. The shouty Caps Lock kinda give it away, doesn’t it? To be fair, that’s more a matter of rudeness, and his statement that the show can be criticized and is not perfect is all fine and good —the show is not perfect, and it should be criticized.

      That said, I disagree with his categorical statement that “Season 5 sucked”. Some people either love or hate something, with very little nuance in between. They don’t think of the work that went into it, in all spects of the production, or the stuff they did actually like. I didn’t enjoy most of Dorne, and a few other moments —but the stuff I disliked were like 20 minutes of screentime in a season that goes on for about 9 hours and 20 minutes. Not exactly show-breaking, is it? Then there’s Hardhome, broadly believed to be one of the best if not the best episode of the whole show, even by many book readers obsessed with a literal faithfulness to the source material, although that episode is nothing but deviations and inventions. I can’t see how a season with such an episode could be deemed to “suck”. However, some people can only see in black and white. That’s just how they are —You won’t change them. Especially not by just being so insistent, constantly on them. Just ignore them.

        Quote  Reply

    199. Hodor’s Bastard,

      God I would love to see that. Nikolaj can be really funny. Alltough I expect a more serious and more ”to the point” attitude from Jaime this season. Unafortunatly, because I love sarcastic, joking Jaime.

      Luka Nieto,

      My feelings exactly. While I found Dorne to be quite bad, I was not as dissapointed as other people, because I had absolutly no expectations from Dorne.

      There where quite a bit of scenes I did not like this season, but no more then anyother season, I simply choose not to talk about the 2-3 scenes I didn’t like, but instead I focus on the things I did

        Quote  Reply

    200. Hodor’s Bastard: …also I can imagine an awfully snarky standoff between J & the BF, both sitting upon their anxious horses, in mid-span of a certain key drawbridge. That could be an amazing adaptation….but…sadly, it seems there would be a recognition issue among the general viewership.(I disagree for sake of awesomeness!)

      “WHAT………….is your favourite colour????”

      “Blue. No, gr…….AAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGHHHH”

        Quote  Reply

    201. Mihnea: This is not criticism.

      No, it wasn’t. It was a frustrated and angry response to provocation that has been pretty relentless. I may not agree 100% with the ‘Season 5 sucked’ part, but she is entitled to that opinion and I don’t blame her for losing her cool. The ‘What is your fooking problem?’ part was entirely warranted, in my view.

        Quote  Reply

    202. Firannion: No reference here whatsoever to the intelligence of the average viewer

      Also, memory and intelligence actually are not that well correlated. Indeed, highly intelligent people often do not pay much attention to things other than their particular obsessions: and thus have worse memories for day-to-day things (like, say, TV shows) than do normal people.

      Luka Nieto: Some people can only see in black and white.

      Ah, yes: Tribe Boolean! Boring conversationalists: it’s always just “yes” and “no”…..

        Quote  Reply

    203. Wimsey,

      Mihnea,

      Okay, it appears I need some education in what fan-fic is.
      Without WoW as a reference, wouldn’t our theories for next season be that?
      I am not talking about the Kingsmoot; that was in a book; lets take the huge battle in the North.

      I don’t want to be disrespectful in any way. I am ‘a bit’ older and just need to know.

        Quote  Reply

    204. When I used my opinions as a fact? At least, I give the “facts” to have such opinion. Mihnea’s is all “the writers are Emmy-worthy”, “is the most viewed show on history”, “Martin did wrong”, “they don’t have enough money”, “that character/plot is filler/boring” and stuff. Nothing else to sustain that opinion, only fanboyism.

      Which is pissing me off is how he’s all “she’s bitching without reason” to every Wallie here and hoping I’m ending banned.

        Quote  Reply

    205. Mihnea: While I found Dorne to be quite bad, I was not as dissapointed as other people, because I had absolutly no expectations from Dorne.

      Yeah, “not as bad as I feared” is not great praise!

      I do wonder if I would have found it worse had I not been comparing it to the book: after all, “bad” is better than “awful” but too often we go by “better” rather than “bad.” That said, it seems that the general audience figured out what Jaime was going through while in Dorne, and that is what matters. (That story line did take the longest to unwind: but when you have more than one storyline, one of them has to take longest.)

        Quote  Reply

    206. Mihnea

      Yes, because you claim you wanted to ignore me, and I did in fact ignored you, but everytime I make a comment, you post on someone’s else comment how I’m bitching about the show pointlessly and non-stoping and sending comments to the admins to banned me.

      You don’t have any right to tell me to shut up or banished me, or to anyone who’s making a constructive critic of the show ignoring the books in a show-oriented web.

      But since you’re really angry about me and my hateful comments on women portray’s (I don’t think the writers hate women, but I wonder they only use that part of the story to female characters), I’m still waiting that you name only a female character who is not a brute warrior yelling gendered slurs, woman raped/threatened with rape/sexed up for no discerneable reason, catfighting each other over a man, or a mother killed with something related to children.

      Go ahead.

        Quote  Reply

    207. God of tits and wine:
      Nice touch with using the trademark symbol lol…. I salute u, Julie Ann, with your tweet and your approach towards celebrities and not going cuckoo for cocoa puffs when u saw KH… I mentioned this on the other website and I’ll say the same thing that this is gonna be unpopular but I’m starting to think that Kit Harrington is a douche in real life. I base this on the interview he did saying how the show is holding back his acting career and then more recently how he harshly shot down that pro soccer player when he asked Kit for an autograph. Those are facts. Now I also speculate he might be suffering from the napoleon complex being 5’6″. But man does he make for a perfect Jon Snow

      God of tits and wine,

      Give Kit a break. It is hard to be deader than dead and still hounded. He is allowed a cranky day or month while dead.

      And frankly, personally autographs and pictures are not for me. When ever I meet a famous person in real life, I leave them alone.
      Mementos are just the next generation’s trash for the most part.

        Quote  Reply

    208. Newbietothegame,

      If you simply meant that our speculation is fan fiction, you’re right. However, the writers of the show have access to Martin’s story. Granted, it won’t be the same as adapting a text, as this part of the story is unpuslished and largely unwritten, but D&D are rarely adapting text directly anymore, anyway —they are adapting the story, and to that they have access, so it won’t be fan fiction.

        Quote  Reply

    209. Newbietothegame,

      I will let someone with a better english to go in details.

      But to me, fan-fiction is when the authors intelectuall property is used without his consent. When fans write stories without asking for the authors consent for example.

      Adaptation is when the author recives peyments and gives his consent on people using his characters/story/locations,..etc. Most often the author will write himself some scripts here, or help those who do.

        Quote  Reply

    210. SlayerNina,

      “Martin did wrong”, “they don’t have enough money”, “that character/plot is filler/boring” and stuff. Nothing else to sustain that opinion, only fanboyism.

      This is not fanboyism, just reality. Some things can simply not be done from tehnical reasons rather then story related reasons.

        Quote  Reply

    211. Mihnea,

      That’s more the legal difference.

      The artistic difference is, usually, that fan fiction take the characters and the locations and makes up their own story with them (if they bother with an actual story, that is). An adaptation is based on the story of the source material, and it tells that story —sometimes, by necessity, despite some characters and locations and such. Game of Thrones is an adaptation; an adaptation ran by uber-fans with no knowledge of adaptation would have resulted in a storyless clusterfuck obssessed with minutia.

        Quote  Reply

    212. BlueDragon: Mementos are just the next generation’s trash for the most part.

      And thus data for anthropologists of the future!

      Luka Nieto: If you simply meant that our speculation is fan fiction, you’re right.

      I would not even say that. Our speculation is just that: conjecture about what GRRM and/or B&W are doing in the next book and next season. Those three know what is going to happen: we don’t. We have information about what characters intend to do, what “facts” within their universe the characters know, and stuff like that.

      Mihnea,
      The bigger difference is that an adaptation is explicitly trying to tell the same story in a different medium. The best novels have one thing in common: they are awful scripts. Similarly, the best scripts are all awful novels.

      EDIT: Whoops! You and Luka already clarified that. Yeah, you are right: there is a legal difference, too.

        Quote  Reply

    213. SlayerNina,

      I will not get into this disscussion because no answer I will give will please you.

      And I have no interest off giving you fuell.

      Wimsey,

      I completly agree with you here. I was just trying to explain the issue more from the legal point-of-view.

        Quote  Reply

    214. Matt,

      Difference is that Gendry was given the perfect bookend. It doesn’t get any better than that for a Thrones character. On the other hand, Edmure and the Blackfish especially are entirely open-ended. Almost as much as Benjen. A question begging to be answered.

        Quote  Reply

    215. Mihnea: I completly agree with you here. I was just trying to explain the issue from the legal point-of-view.

      Yeah, I caught that belatedly! Insert an embarrassed emoticon here…..

        Quote  Reply

    216. Fanfiction (or fanfics) are writings based on something else (a show, another book, films, games…), usually by amateurs. The purpose is to have a good time writing or reading it. They explore things not explored on the original creation, or develops characters or situations to create new things.

      The problem with fanfics is mainly about the characters: to “accomodate” the fanfic to the writer wishes, it usually changes main plots, characters or “canon” things to insert the new characters or situations. While it exist good fanfics that respect the canon or even create concepts totally different of the original, they mantain the essence of the original work. They are logical and well written or developed. But most of them they’re only the author wishes. The worst creation a fanfic can give is the Mary Sue or Marty Stue: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

      From readers GOT criticism is usually about how is not being stick to the original. They are the “book purists”, but there’s a difference between “book purists” who wants everything exactly the same as the original, and “book purists” who wanted something based on the original, but admit changes for the sake of the plot/timing/character development etc.

      Even if you’re a reader or an Unsullied, GOT fanfic criticism from both parts is usually about how characters learn new awesome skills in 0 time (like Arya changing faces or Dany’s trained dragons), gratuitous sex or violence (while they cut out other), how they move around Westeros ignoring the distance or time (LF and the jetpack meme), how they change character’s development from one scene to the next, whitewashing/changing characters to the extreme (St. Tyrion or Dany the Dictator meme, for example), the excesive foreshadowing of the show (like Olly’s angry face or Jorah’s scar every episode) or cut plots/canon character to left room to the original characters created for the writers or give more screentime for no discerneable reason to fanfavourite characters loved by the audience or the writers (Tyrion, Jon, Cersei or Dany, for example).

      Fanfics doing right, they’re awesome and enrich the original, bad fanfics destroy it.

      Edit: sorry, did’t see the answers

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    217. SlayerNina: I’m still waiting that you name only a female character who is not a brute warrior yelling gendered slurs, woman raped/threatened with rape/sexed up for no discerneable reason, catfighting each other over a man, or a mother killed with something related to children.

      Arya
      Queen of Thorns
      Ygriette

        Quote  Reply

    218. SlayerNina,

      Of course I don’t have any. My arguments to you are futile as you don’t consider them valid.

      Just like I consider all you wrote there to be ridiculous statements, and even more ridiculous examples.

        Quote  Reply

    219. Josh L.,

      Ygritte is just another stereotype ”warrior girl”.
      Arya is just another stereotype ”cool action” girl
      The QoT is just another stereotype ”old scheming women”.

      There I have summed up her answers.

        Quote  Reply

    220. SlayerNina,

      http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/136313-rant-and-rave-reboot-iii/

      Follow the link. I’m sure you will have a much richer experience with people who have similar beliefs to yourself.

      Unfortunately, like so many threads this comments section has been hijacked by people who have no interest in talking about the article topic. I’m not bothered about people straying a little myself, but sometimes it can get a little ridiculous. Forums are much better places to discuss these sorts of things.

        Quote  Reply

    221. SlayerNina,

      Jetpack criticism – There are only 10 episodes per season. Weeks can pass over the course of a single episode, and months can pass over 1 or 2 episodes. Further, like the books, each storyline is not taking place at the exact same time. This is a ridiculous criticism.

      Writers giving more screen time to their “favorites” – Jon,Dany, and Tyrion are the 3 main protagonists of the story. Of course they are going to have more screen time than the rest, even though Arya and Sansa have had more screen time than Dany the past couple of seasons.

      Your other complaints are just your opinions, and I can’t change how you feel. But the two I addressed had very simple answers.

        Quote  Reply

    222. Josh L.: Arya
      Queen of Thorns
      Ygriette

      Arya the brute warrior without mercy yelling “Cunt!” to the girl on the FM temple and “most girls are idiots” to Tywin Lannister on season 2, after pass 3 seasons acting like a boy, talking like a boy, doing boy stuff and claiming she’s not a lady. When in the books she’s angry everytime she’s mistaken by a boy and saying “the women are important too!”.

      Olenna Tyrell calling Cersei’s a bitch on her face, teaching her niece to be a sexual manipulator and reminding the good ol’ times when she was the Supreme Slut. I didn’t know Book!Olenna had such habilities or braindead enough to insult the Queen Regent/Mother/Widow/Whatever.

      Ygritte the brute warrior who only have mercy to Gilly the Nice Mom and mocking about silky dresses and ladies scared by spiders. Don’t remind a lot about Ygritte, but I’m sure she didn’t mock ladies for being ladies, but for being kneeled. And Tormund said the possibility of Ygritte being happy having Jon’s baby.

      Good try.

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    223. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      I understand you have to use elipsis to move characters. But if it is forced, don’t move the characters in the first place. Or move all of them at the same speed, not only one. I’m really onto “it’s a show, not rational thing” but it puzzled me how Brienne’s found two Stark girls in an huge continent when the others failed, or how Varys managed to arrive to Dany’s palace at Meereen unnoticed.

      I understand too the reasoning of giving fanfavourites more screentime. But to do something. If they have to invent things to have such characters existing to the audience, something is failing. And in a show in which writers are complaining constantly about timing and time, you can’t have characters motionless onscreen cutting others. Plus, is rude to assume X character are beloved for the audience and Y not. Overused characters usually ended being hated by the audience, too. I’m interested in Tyrion doing political stuff, not Tyrion drinking watching whores or Jaime’s exploring his feelings for Cersei/his family, not a generic battle on the sand, for example. If Dany’s plot cannot add anything at all to the story but killing masters in a fancy way or losing dragons, they should cut out.

      And thematically overall, for example, it’s more important Bran or Jon talking about the White Walkers than the Boltons killing someone.

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    224. Mihnea:
      Josh L.,

      Ygritte is just another stereotype ”warrior girl”.
      Arya is just another stereotype ”cool action” girl
      The QoT is just another stereotype ”old scheming women”.

      There I have summed up her answers.

      Oh, you can give something else? I’m all hears! You can’t, because they are stereotypes.

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    225. Wimsey,

      In a previous career I did market research exactly like that. It’s pretty standard stuff and D&D have spoken about how the original pilot was tested, and they found that key points were not communicated (ex: Jaime and Cersei being siblings), and so the script was rewritten to make it clearer. It wouldn’t be poll data. They’d do a series of focus groups and audience response screenings (those little approval lines you see at the bottom of the screen in presidential debates) and make sure that they’ve communicated what they need to communicate in a clear and likeable way. The worst shows are written to test well. It rarely works out. But it’s a good way to make sure the message is clear.

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    226. SlayerNina,

      This is a fictional story. The overuse of chance meetings is used in George’s books too, and in most stories.

      As for what you want, you explain it perfectly. It’s what YOU want. You only want to see Tyrion in a political setting, and don’t care about how he reacts to killing his father and his lover. To be honest, two of the 3 examples you listed are all complaints that you should have with George too.

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    227. Wimsey,

      Yeah, we’re going to have to keep an extra special eye out next week for signs of Menzies and Russell. I still can’t shake my own personal feeling that what we’re going to see is a major adaptation of the siege of Riverrun (lots of changes to the story and premise, but not the setting). Oh don’t get me wrong, if there’s a hanging platform and a trebuchet, those things will still come into play, but I think what’s throwing me is that I’m not 100% convinced that BOTH Menzies and Russell are in fact returning. Russell is more likely because they seemed to do some setup for his return, whereas with Edmure/Menzies it seems a bit more unclear. I’m wondering if whatever siege happens will have more to do with the smallfolk rebelling – I can’t find a source for this, but isn’t there some comment in Season 4 about the Freys raiding the land from the poor? I could be wrong on that.

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    228. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      George is untouchable. He drinks reader’s tears for breakfast lol Just joking, I have the same “complaints” with him, specially with Feast and Dance

      Agree with you about personal interests.

      Personally, I’m fine watching “generic” stuff, unless is so generic that it made the show exactly the same as others or become repetitive (like some kind of script designated being something episode per episode as: “Tyrion’s cock jokes-Sansa tortured-Dany’s dragons-Jorah missing Dany-Tyrion with Varys-Arya staring angrily-boob quota-Sam and Gilly romatic scene-Jon fights-Brienne walking”…, you get the idea, right?).

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    229. SlayerNina,

      Sorry, but you specifically asked for a female character who was not one of these:

      a female character who is not a brute warrior yelling gendered slurs
      woman raped/threatened with rape/sexed up for no discerneable reason
      catfighting each other over a man
      a mother killed with something related to children.

      A brute is defined as: “very strong or forceful”

      Both Arya and Ygriette are warriors, but they are not very strong or forceful. They don’t match the “brute warrior” definition that you asked for.

      Olenna might catfight, but she doesn’t catfight over a man, which is what you asked for.

      If you have faults with these characters, that’s your prerogative. But you asked for a woman who didn’t fit these description. I gave you three. Don’t then go and change the goalposts because your descriptions were too overly precise.

      By the same token I could ask you to name me a male character older than seven in the books who is not a murderer, a manipulator, or a misogynist.

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    230. Lisa0527,

      A chance? Yes. But really not a very high one. The Blackfish was around quite a lot, it would be the most obvious recast since Darrio. Besides, Ian McShane, is a pretty well known actor, which will make the recast even more clear.

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    231. Mihnea:
      SlayerNina,

      you’re a stereotype.

      What? Are you like 12 years old. Next will it be the, “I know I am but what are you” retort? As Pigeon said please, just stop already.

      General:
      Regarding about the time this went off the rails, do most of the people remember someone three or more years later. A few months ago someone asked on thread to be reminded of who Blackfish was as they couldn’t remember him. And me in all my brilliance said, he was the one sitting next to Cat at the red wedding that excused himself to find a tree to piss on. It took all of about three seconds for some one to correct me and once they did, I was like, oh yeah, that was Brynden Tully.

      On a Facebook page that was all about GoT’s role playing, the person who started it put up photos of about twenty people that most of us could identify in a heartbeat….most people couldn’t name above five of those pictured.

      So sometimes people just don’t remember, sometimes people misremember others are walking encyclopedia’s.

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    232. Lisa0527,

      Well, if the outlaws his character is supposed to be with are BwB then maybe? But its most likely a new character for him and not a recast of an old one.

        Quote  Reply

    233. Josh L.,

      Just let it go man. When the conversation started between them in this thread, it was mostly on topic. Now, its fucking annoying and there seems to be no end in sight unless all parties involved just stop.

        Quote  Reply

    234. Lisa0527: They’d do a series of focus groups and audience response screenings (those little approval lines you see at the bottom of the screen in presidential debates)

      Oh! Sorry: I was thinking of a different type of market research, closer to what companies do to see how well commercials sink into play. (I did that in college 30 years ago….) Yeah, I know that test screenings can be important, particularly for films. (Supposedly the 6th Harry Potter movie was delayed six months because of very meh reactions to the test screening.)

      That written, do they do test-screenings for established TV shows?

      Tyrion Pimpslap: Jetpack criticism – There are only 10 episodes per season. Weeks can pass over the course of a single episode, and months can pass over 1 or 2 episodes.

      Indeed, this has always struck me as comical: a device that should communicate a lot of time instead is taken to communicate teleportation! So, I suppose Cersei’s hair is showing the Rogainne’s equivalent of a jet-pack…..

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    235. Josh L.,

      Ok, I change brute for ruthless assassin who has any remorse for killing people and just attack without thinking and without “feminine skills” and mocking “feminine skills”.

      Well, Olenna don’t catfight over a man, but she’s catfighting Cersei in the scene they invented for her.

      Murder counts as self defence? Which that let almost every character on GOT including the animals without guilty.

      Anyway, Sam, Davos, Trystane, Gendry, half of the characters of the Night Watch, Ned, Barristan, Kevan Lannister, Bran (how old is he now?), Jojen, Jon, Jaime (she mocks Brienne, but I’m not sure if his attitude is for everyone)…

      Do you want to continue?

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    236. What the hell is this place? Did I accidentally stumble upon westeros.org? It still reads wotw though, hmm weird.

        Quote  Reply

    237. kit_hepburn,

      I remember seeing a Menzies interview (from this summer I believe) and I think he indicated he would be more than happy to be back on Game of Thrones. So take that for it’s worth. I’ve got my fingers crossed for him and of course Clive Russell to return.

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    238. SlayerNina
      Sam – manipulator (Jon Snow’s election)
      Davos – manipulator (helped Eldric Storm escape)
      Trystane – barely remember him in the books, too minor a character to really comment on
      Gendry – murderer (killed Biter, not in self-defense)
      half of the characters of the Night Watch (minor characters)
      Ned – murderer (killed Arthur Dayne on false grounds)
      Barristan – manipulator (lied to Dany about being Aristan)
      Kevan Lannister – manipulator (tried to orchestrate Cersei’s depature to Casterly Rock)
      Bran (how old is he now?) – manipulator (forcibly controlled Hodor’s mind)
      Jojen – manipulator (used his greenseer powers to direct Bran to Bloodraven)
      Jon – murderer (Halfhand, wildlings)
      Jaime – murderer (Aeryn V, attempted murder of Bran), misogynistic (comments towards Brienne) *and* manipulator (convinced Catelyn to free him)

      All of those are from the books, BTW. It’s easy to pick one or two scene to shoehorn characters into broadly-defined categories in order to make them look like poorly developed characters. Especially if you change goalposts in the midst of the discussion.

      I’m done now. This discussion has went way too off-topic.

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    239. Geezus.

      As if SlayerNina going on the same ol’ tangent yet again isn’t bad enough, there’s an Abyss clone???

      I guess the silver lining is no one is going to confuse the clone for the real Abyss.

      On topic: I hope we have some fearless folks in the area to see if there’s a Blackfish or Edmure sighting. *fingers crossed…oh, please, let them be there!!!*

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    240. I hate when these boards go off topic, usually it’s book readers and their long rants over some perceived wrong by GRRM or D&D; like the books and show are suppose to develop according to their internal thoughts and not those of the story’s creators.

      Concerning un-PC and totally insensitive story elements, try watching Scream Queens, I’ve was so shocked I couldn’t stop laughing at how the show made fun of everyone, I mean totally irreverent towards all groups, ethnicity’s, races, sexes, handicaps, and so forth. I’m surprised special interest groups aren’t calling for it’s cancellation. Therefore complainers about the show should focus on truly demeaning series.

      BTW bitches, bastards and broken human beings, GoT has 12 Emmy’s, these are from their peers, the tops in the business, so contemplate and complain about that.

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    241. tyjon: GoT has 12 Emmy’s, these are from their peers, the tops in the business, so contemplate and complain about that.

      Well, we all know that people in TV and movie making actually know nothing about TV and film. Wasn’t that conclusively proven when Lord of the Rings got all of those Oscar nominations and awards?

      Next you are going to suggest that all of those literary critics that give Booker awards to boring novels that do not even have maps in front actually know anything about writing. Sheesh…..

      😀

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    242. tyjon,

      The problem about the fandom of GOT readers vs showatchers (spoilers of non written books aside) was that is the first fandom in which the writers discourages the audience and the actors to read the books and some of the actors attack the readers for read such books… I’m on Harry Potter and TLOTR fandom and attacking readers was something unthinkable…

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    243. SlayerNina,

      SlayerNina:
      tyjon,

      The problem about the fandom of GOT readers vs showatchers (spoilers of non written books aside) was that is the first fandom in which the writers discourages the audience and the actors to read the books and some of the actors attack the readers for read such books… I’m on Harry Potter and TLOTR fandom and attacking readers was something unthinkable…

      Your ability to take statements out of context is quite impressive.

      When asked about it by some actors, D&D told them that reading the books would not help them with the acting in the show —because that’s the truth; it really wouldn’t. If anything, it would confuse them. Some actors have claimed to arrive at the same conclusion by themselves, sometimes after reading a few of their characters’ chapters and noticing the differences. The actors follow the scripts, as they should. D&D didn’t instruct the actors (let alone the audience!) to dismiss the books —they simply told them the perfectly simple truth that reading them wouldn’t help them in their job. As for the actors attacking the book readers, that’s just another falsehood; some actors have rather politely (more than I could ever manage!) complained about the faction of obsessed book readers who don’t do anything but shit on the show and on the actors themselves because they aren’t exactly as these crazies imagined.

      As for the show spoiling the books, that’s not an insult to the books. It’s just how things panned out; back in 2008-2010, when the show was sold and being developed, it was unthinkable that GRRM wouldn’t have finished the series by now. That’s not HBO’s fault, or D&D’s fault. In my opinion, that’s just the sad reality of the situation and we shouldn’t point fingers; but, if you insisted, the fingers would be pointed at Martin, not the show or its producers.

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    244. SlayerNina,

      That is a major misrepresentation of what transpires here or in the Potter/Tolkien fandoms. What people here, there and Middle-earth-where “attack” is whether adaptations should focus on the details in a book or the story told by a book. These are fundamentally different things. Successful adaptations have one thing in common: they take the book’s story and tell it cinematically. However, because some fans like books for the details rather than for the story, they dislike adaptations focused in the story. A LOT of Tolkien fans hated the LotR films because so many “important” details were omitted. Yet audiences loved the films, resulting in expanding box offices. In particular, it upset some fans that audiences did not get to learn Middle-earth history. Conversely, a lot of Harry Potter fans loved the storyless, detail-oriented Columbus films: but audiences did not, resulting in huge drops in box office after both of those films. And, of course, the difference in critical reception was very stark.

      So, nobody is being criticized for reading the book. People are being criticized for thinking that these books (or any books) are good scripts.

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    245. Wimsey: So, nobody is being criticized for reading the book. People are being criticized for thinking that these books (or any books) are good scripts.

      That should be put in bold before one can post any comment on this site.

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    246. Luka Nieto: That should be put in bold before one can post any comment on this site.

      That depends on which script is, which actors are involved in and how they do the dialogue.

      Ned and Robert dialogue or Ned execution was almost exactly the same as the books, word from word, and they are a good scene.
      Tywin and Arya’s scenes were a good adaptation and even better than the books.
      Sansa in EF was an adaptation but left a lot of plotholes.
      Hardhome scene was one of the best battle scenes created (maybe the best) and it didn’t exist.
      Dorne plot was invented on purpose for the season and is the weakest part of the show.
      Ros was not only to fill the “boobs quota”, but to explain things to the audience and was much better than Obara’s “weapon of choose” speech.

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    247. SlayerNina,

      Individual lines of dialogue or scenes are not what make a script.

      Anyway, with such a variety of examples, what you must be saying is that whether a scene (or a storyline or an episode) is based on the books or not has no predictive capabilities as to the quality of the content. Shocker.

      By the way, Obara’s speech was taken almost word for word from the books, and the context was not that different: In both cases, she was making the point that she will always choose the belligerent path, and in both cases there’s the problem that she’s telling her life’s story story to people who already know about it. I must admit that, despite the faulty exposition in both mediums, I enjoyed the line both in the books and the show.

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    248. SlayerNina: Sansa in EF was an adaptation but left a lot of plotholes.

      What plotholes did it create? What events X and Y happened where X could not happen if Y happened, too?

      SlayerNina: Dorne plot was invented on purpose for the season and is the weakest part of the show.

      But that was a compromise between story and plot. The plotlines set in Dorne in the book probably are important to the over-arching plot; however, the story set there (Arriane’s Cersei imitation) almost certainly is not relevant to the over-arching story. Conversely, the plotlines set in the Riverlands probably are not important to the over-arching plot; however, the story set there (Jaime growing a soul) probably is relevant to the over-arching story.

      Now, I have no idea if a novelized version of TV’s Jaime’s story set in Dorne would have worked better than the novel setting Jaime’s story in the Riverlands. However, I am quite certain that the TV audience got the point of Jaime’s particular boy->man journey from what was done in Dorne than they would have from trying to do it in the Riverlands.

      And, as Luka notes, the fact that some lines of dialog might work well in both a novel and in a script does not alter the fact that good novels are bad scripts and vice-versa. One thing that script doctors often have to do is make early drafts of scripts read less like novels and more like scripts. After all, novels can only communicate through words: and although it is sometimes true that a succinct, prosaic line (good script dialog) works in books, often times books demand more than that. And TV/film does much better when it shows rather than tells: and although some points can be communicated by descriptions of actions in books, TV/film demands more than that. Those are the limitations/advantages of the two media for storytelling.

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    249. Luka Nieto,

      I agree. Ian McElhinney has read the books, and he expected that his character will have a bigger role in S5 and that led to his confrontation with HBO.

      He behaved in a very unprofessional manner, because he basically asked the writers to change their own story.

      On the other hand Richard Madden was disappointed when he read ACOK, because he thought that he won’t appear that much in S2, but he was pleasantly surprised.

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    250. SlayerNina: That depends on which script is, which actors are involved in and how they do the dialogue.

      And that has nothing to do with the books. Some characters are better in the books, some characters are better in the show, some are equally good or bad.

      But almost every character is (in some way) different from the books, because D&D admitted that they are writing these characters for the actors, not to mach their book versions.

      So, actors can read the books and have fun, but reading the books is completely useless for them, when we are speaking about their job.

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    251. mau,

      Also, character motivations and beliefs change in adaptation, sometimes. A favorite example of mine is Stannis and Davos and religion. In the books, Davos believes in the Gods, though he’s not much of a practitioner, and Stannis is a non-believer through and through (the kind which I personally clasify as the “Hollywood atheist” —in American movies, it seems the only reason to disbelief is a personal tragedy). In the show, Stannis’s religious beliefs are ambiguous… until (much sooner and deeper than in the books) he’s entranced by Melisandre, while Davos is the one who explicitly states he doesn’t believe in the Gods —not only R’hllor, but the Seven as well.

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    252. Wimsey: What plotholes did it create? What events X and Y happened where X could not happen if Y happened, too?

      The answer is none. People use the word “plothole” way too often…

        Quote  Reply

    253. mau,

      Sigh. I’m so tired of people overusing the term “plot hole”, aren’t you? Most of the times it’s just that they don’t agree with the choices made by a character, or that they dislike it when something is not explicitly explained. Those aren’t plot holes! Even if what they are describing happens to be an actual character inconsistency, or something not being explained at all, it still isn’t a plot hole —Because that’s not what the term “plot hole” means! A plot hole is what happens when the story’s chain of logic is unambiguously broken, when something essential to a particular story’s outcome is completely unexplainable and any explanation would be contradictory.

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    254. mau:
      Luka Nieto,

      I agree. Ian McElhinney has read the books, and he expected that his character will have a bigger role in S5 and that led to his confrontation with HBO.

      He behaved in a very unprofessional manner, because he basically asked the writers to change their own story.

      On the other hand Richard Madden was disappointed when he read ACOK, because he thought that he won’t appear that much in S2, but he was pleasantly surprised.

      As a viewer, I felt a bit dissapointed with Barristan character. I saw McElhinney in other stuff and he nailed them, so I was hoping he had more scenes. His character could had bring relevant stories of the past (mainly about Rhaegar and Robert’s reign) but all he did was stood in the background doing nothing until season 5, in which he was killed. And later, he died on an ally with some Unsullied, who are supposed to be A fighters as him. It must be frustrating for the actor know that he could had play a bigger role and then that vanished. I read he turned off parts in theatre plays to be on GOT.

      Robb added scenes on season 2 were to develop the romance between him and Talisa and they shift the focus form Catelyn’s to him, so I understand why Madden was surprised having extra scenes.

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    255. Luka Nieto,

      Well, tell me how LF is having Sansa back if he just sold her to the Boltons (Lannister known allies and Sansa being wanted for regicide) without saying the Vale lords what he was doing…

      And the “Boltons kidnapped Sansa” didn’t work either. What LF can say, “ey, lord Royce, I was taking Sansa without telling you, to a safe place without telling you and somehow, the Boltons were on our way, what a pity!”. How the Vale lords can trust him again?

      LF can try to make the lords obey by force (using the Crown troops, but I think Cersei is too busy with the Tyrell and Martell to start another war with the Vale -but it’s Cersei, so who knows-), but he left Robin on their hands…

      And he didn’t know now if Sansa is alive or not, or if she’s angry at him or not… to me, it’s a lot of plot holes in LF’s plan, given he’s the supreme schemer of Westeros and always had a pawn to use or a B plan…

      And btw, LF’s last scene was in KL, being alone with an angry Olenna in a tumultous city… The Vale could want to rescue him, just in case?

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    256. SlayerNina,

      So… now you’re anticipating a plot hole? Because that’s not a plot hole that has actually taken place in the show as of yet. You’re not even waiting for the show to explain itself? Okay then. Totally fair!

      There are holes in Littlefinger’s plans. But the fact that there are holes in his plans doesn’t mean there are plot holes in the story. You’re equating “holes” in a fictional character’s machinations with “plot holes” —broken chains of logic within the narrative. They are two very different things, unless you are suggesting Littlefinger is omniscient, all-powerful and is never wrong; basically, unless you’re suggesting Littlefinger is God —that is, that he’s the writer of this story. Which I know you’re not suggesting, because that would be ridiculous! So let’s not mistake a character’s mistakes for a logical flaw in the story.

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    257. Luka Nieto,

      Sorry, holes then.

      But LF is omniscient! Somehow, he knew about the Clegane’s story, Lyanna’s kidnapping and Stannis sieging WF before Stannis decided to go 😀

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    258. SlayerNina,

      Huh? He’s got spies. And anyway, everyone knows about Lyanna’s Harrenhal story and kidnapping, and he simply deduced Stannis’ tactical decisions. He literally described it as a “gamble”. He used those words. How is that omniscient?

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    259. mau,

      Such a shame LF didn’t had spies to tell him the Boltons are crazy as nuts.

      I’m sure Bran can kill a God. He’s a tree!

      And yes, reading the books doesn’t improve acting skills.

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    260. SlayerNina:
      mau,

      I’m sure Bran can kill a God. He’s a tree!

      ?

      And yes, reading the books doesn’t improve acting skills.

      Then, why you were ranting about D&D and their suggestion to the actors??

        Quote  Reply

    261. mau:
      SlayerNina,

      Whatever. The point is – reading the books for actors is completely useless.

      I really can’t agree with that. It may not be NECESSARY, certainly, but do you really think it’s useless? I feel as though having an impression of the character prior to portraying them can make it better. Now it is true that if they do drastically change the personality of that character, that could be confusing. I know some of the actors purposely did not read the books, or stopped reading the books at some point. But some, say Rory McCann for example, seem to really bring out the emotion from a place that I think is aided by having the background. Just my thoughts, though.

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    262. Pigeon: . It may not be NECESSARY, certainly, but do you really think it’s useless?

      Yes, I think it is, because the best actors on the show never read the books.

      Peter Dinklage, Lena Headey, Alfie Allen, Conleth Hill, Charles Dance, Maisie Williams, Jack Gleeson, Stephen Dillane, Jonathan Pryce,…

      And for example, the actress who plays Obara is a big fan of the books, and almost everyone in a book fandom hates her.

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    263. Pigeon,

      Even if they don’t change the character, some actors will still choose not to read the books.

      Like John Bradley said, him knowing what will happen ahead, would make it hard for him to act the emotions Sam feels in those moments.

      And I respectfully disagree on Rory. He made the Hound a much better character then he was in the books, and I don’t think that has anything to do with him reading the books.

      In the end tough I tend to agree with Mau here, reading the books is uneccesary, and in my opinion to a certain degree it may even be harmfull to the actors performance.

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    264. mau,

      Wich is quite sad, I for one like her quite a lot in that role. As did my friends and my father.

      Seriously tough, not one of my friends went full rage-mode at the Sand Snakes. Some where ”meh” others quite liked them.

      I’m starting to think that coming to this sort of sites actoully hurts my enjoyment of the show. The only thing you hear is complaints, and some ridiculous purists/haters, who spend their time on a FAN-SITE of a show they hate.
      (and please don’t try to give me the ”criticism is fine”, it is, but when the sole thing you do on that site is criticism, then you need to take a good look, and decide ”whats the point of going to a fan-site of a show I have nothing good to say about”.)

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    265. Luka Nieto: Because that’s not what the term “plot hole” means! A plot hole is what happens when the story’s chain of logic is unambiguously broken

      I didn’t think I would be jumping in on this particular thread anymore, because it stopped being fun or informative a long time ago, yet here I am.

      I think I was the one who stated something about a plot hole on another thread, fearing that Myrcella’s death would be relegated to “shit happens,” and ignored in favor of other plot-lines being moved forward. Yes, I guess I committed the sin of thinking of plot holes in advance, but to me, to do nothing immediate about Myrcella’s death would defy logic.

      We’ve been shown that Lannisters are particularly vengeful when it comes to another Lannister being assaulted in any way. Tywin waged a war over Tyrion being captured, Jaime sent his “regards” to Robb, Cersei keeps threatening fire and Lannister-style brimstone. I guess we will see what happens, or if Myrcella is even dead.

      I have read all the comments on this thread, and seen logical, calm attempts at discourse overtaken by illogical adolescent rants. Yeah, that’s the norm for a fansite, but I thought we were at least above average. The comment I remember most is the one from J C Davis “oh, are we all 12 years old now?” I hope another topic is introduced soon, this thread is getting stale.

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    266. mau: Yes, I think it is, because the best actors on the show never read the books.

      Peter Dinklage, Lena Headey, Alfie Allen, Conleth Hill, Charles Dance, Maisie Williams, Jack Gleeson, Stephen Dillane, Jonathan Pryce,…

      And for example, the actress who plays Obara is a big fan of the books, and almost everyone in a book fandom hates her.

      Alfie has. So have John Bradley, Kit, Gwen, Sophie, Rose, Emilia, Pedro…I do remember an interview with Iain Glen where he said that they were encouraged not to. I guess I can see both angles. As for Keisha, there was hardly anything to read about Obara!

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    267. Luka Nieto: In the show, Stannis’s religious beliefs are ambiguous… until (much sooner and deeper than in the books) he’s entranced by Melisandre,

      Actually, it is not clear how quickly Mel entrances Stannis in the books. We only see things through Davos’ eyes in the books, after all. The comparable scenes on the show would not be in the books because Davos isn’t there. And we never get any feel for how Stannis feels about this: does he feel ashamed or hypocritical? Or does he just view this as a way to make a weapon?

      That written, it certainly is made much more obvious to the audience earlier in the show than in the book. The books strongly hint that Mel’s “smoke baby” resulted from sex with Stannis, but a lot of readers were in denial about that: after all, the rigidly moral Stannis deplores his brother’s adulterous behavior, Stannis would not break his marriage vows, etc. And then Dragons made it clear that, yeah, Stannis was doing just that. (Whether Book!Selyse was behind this 100% as was Show!Selyse or just clueless is not clear.)

      Luka Nieto: The answer is none. People use the word “plothole” way too often…

      Luka Nieto: Sigh. I’m so tired of people overusing the term “plot hole”, aren’t you?

      We should add “subverted trope” to this, too! It has a particular meaning (basically, standing cliches on their heads), but is used for any “people won’t expect that” moment even if the ‘that’ in question is quite the cliche.

      SlayerNina: Such a shame LF didn’t had spies to tell him the Boltons are crazy as nuts.

      Actually, it seems that only Ramsay is. And how would LF’s spies know this? His spies are great at providing information about Kings Landing. They are good at providing information about what happens in the southern parts of the realm where people frequently come and go to Kings Landing.

      However, as both the show and the books stress, much of what happens in the north is unknown to the southerners. And the Boltons in particular are good at keeping their deeds quiet to the other southerners. For example, Ned Stark suspected that the Boltons got up to stuff that he forbade: but he never could prove it.

      This putative “plot hole” comes from a simplistic classification of ignoramus vs. omniscient. Characters are in-between: and whereas LF goes out of his way to learn a lot, he would have had little opportunity (in show or books) to learn much about the Boltons. It would be stretching credulity past breaking if he had a full portfolio on Ramsay!

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    268. Thronetender: Yes, I guess I committed the sin of thinking of plot holes in advance, but to me, to do nothing immediate about Myrcella’s death would defy logic

      Not reacting to it would defy credulity, yes. However, it is quite possible that Cersei will not be able to actually do anything immediately. She’s already fighting a war on half a dozen fronts: and she simply might not be able to make anyone do anything. Dorne is far away, after all, and she has very pressing problems immediately at home: and until the Sparrows and Tyrells are put down, she cannot really do much to the Dornish.

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    269. Mihnea: It is still not a plot-hole. A stupid decision? sure. but plot-hole? no.
      Also Jaime, doesn’t ”send his regards”, nor is displayed being vengefull.

      I went back and rewatched as much of the Red Wedding as I could stand (after all this time, it’s still emotional for me.) It is “the Lannisters send their regards.” not Jaime. So, yeah, this one you got.

      As far as an unusual event such as the planned murder of an innocent girl, to me that’s a tear in the fabric of the plot, demanding quick repair, especially if a number of actions that have come before lead us to expect a quick, decisive action. If the tear remains unrepaired in light of logic and expectation, then to me, it’s a hole. A plot hole.

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    270. Wimsey: Not reacting to it would defy credulity, yes

      Thanks, Wimsey, yes I’m lovin’ that phrase “defy credulity.” Absolutely appropriate. I think as time goes on, we will