Greetings all ye great and loyal Watchers of the Internet Wall of Ice and Rock, and thank you for joining us at your growing corner of internet bliss.
A man’s name is Oz. And it’s off-season Looking Forward time which means Unsullied speculation at its worst.
Many of us are well aware (spoilers) that the title of this fine article is highly unlikely due to this, this, this, this, and this. *Unsullied beware… All relatable spoilery links inserted by Sue the Fury.
But because it would make so much sense, and the fact that we have a considerable amount of time to kill, let’s pretend, just for the hell of it, that Snow stays dead…
It’s been mulled over, discussed, analyzed, dissected, theorized, prophesized, and verbalized by everyone and their respective grandmothers. And a man is not going to introduce or rock flip any valuable evidence that has not yet been overturned.
This chapter in the Looking Forward anthology attempts to make sense of the possibility that Jon, in elementary terms, simply never gets back up.
Disclaimer for all of you Wall newbies (Wallbies?): You have entered the realm of the Unsullied; where show fact and written fiction are separated by a man with only a television and a pricey, yet worthy, subscription to Home Box Office. My oath states that no books may be read until the conclusion of the show, and a man is nothing if he is not an oathkeeper.
As Unsullied, we must dine on what is served by buffet curators David and Dan only.
Disclaimer #2: Sue of the House Fury does NOT allow a man to read any spoilery content produced, written and reported on this here fine site. This sucks a hierarchal big one yet remains justified. The Sullied/spoiler reading contributors even have their own communication channel that yours truly was strategically left out of.
So, in short, she doesn’t let me read shit.
However, what I am aware of I will trustfully disclose to you. Watchers did break the story of Kit arriving in Belfast and avoiding that was an impossible task.
Fun Fact and Final Notice: Jon is undeniably dead. You saw it as well as I did. The viewing masses witnessed the 248½ stabbings (Olly gets credit for the ½) Jon suffered. Even a bastard hottie with a man-bun losing pools of dark blood can’t sustain life (at least not without the immediate help of Rapunzel and her glowing locks, and she ain’t in this show).
There is also the faction of protectors of the secret story: The show runners and Kit himself have attempted to put all doubt to rest by saying, on multiple occasions (and to the POTUS), that Jon is indeed dead. I have no reason to believe they are lying.
In my logically minded yet uneducated Unsullied opinion, there has never been any doubt that Jon is dead. The popular inquiry, “is Jon Snow really dead?” continues to be the wrong question… an ineffective smokescreen question that the mass show-viewing audience has been led to believe is the appropriate inquisition.
The correct inquiry is, “will Jon be resurrected?” Let’s pretend the answer is NO and try to make sense of it…
The Obvious
Event: Red Velvet’s Return to the Wall: Velvet figures, “Well, I thought I had my man. But my man was not THE man. So I guess I’ll go back to the Wall and hang with the neighborhood rapists until I figure it all out.”
Indisputably, this idea was conceived and written in as a set-up for Davos to finally give in to the advances of Melisandre.
Dead Jon Logic: Dav and Mel have always held a love/hate relationship for one another since they first appeared on screen together in Season 2. The two were indeed destined for a long-term relationship from the beginning.
Subsequent Groundbreaking Story Arc of Season 6: Davos tells Mel to talk to the hand but mistakenly raises his Stannis punished extremity in lieu of the full five-fingered one and is overcome by her heat as the cold winter winds blow in.
Shadow Davos is born soon thereafter and becomes the champion that saves Westeros from the White Walkers with “Lord of Light” powered negotiation skills.
Event: “He Always Comes Back”: Spoken by Sam to Olly during Season 5.
Dead Jon Logic: Obviously, this had nothing to do with death and/or resurrection, but was said in reference to Jon’s off-screen developing drinking problem and the potential filling of his cup multiple times at the newly planned (and soon to be famous) Night’s Watch White Walker Saloon (or as the locals will call it, The NW3).
Soon thereafter, Jon would croak anyway leaving this statement as unproductive as the idea we all shared when we thought it held a deeper significance.
Event: “Kill the Boy”: spoken by Maester Aemon to Jon Snow.
Dead Jon Logic: This was an obvious recommendation to Jon to give Olly the business before Olly made the decision to give Jon the business. Jon failed to act, thus this dialogue holds no further meaning, you know, since Jon will remain dead.
Event: The White Walker Destruction: Jon disintegrates a Walker with his Valyrian steel sword while being observed closely (and gaining special notice) by the King of the Frozen Dead.
Dead Jon Logic: This event simply depicted a show of gratitude by the Night’s King in admiration of the impressive swordsmanship demonstrated by Jon. But mostly, it was an apparent sign of envy and desire of the Night’s King for Jon’s lovely black flowing locks of man hair. The bounce itself is mesmerizing:
The ridiculous is now staring you in the face.
The Not-So-Obvious
Event: The Seduction Scene S5E4: Melisandre says to Jon, “In our joining there is power. Power to make life, power to make light.”
Dead Jon Logic: This was evidently included to support the origins of the invention of electricity in Westeros. Of course, candles will have to suffice since Jon will remain a corpse.
Event: The Inclusion of the Brotherhood Without Banners
Dead Jon Logic: The presumably “still hunting Lannister soldiers in the forest” company of men lacking pledge were included not for evidence of potential resurrection, but rather to reemphasize that Beric Dondarrion was still alive and to begin the process of Gendry’s story arc building to the climax of the longest boat ride in the history of the Seven Kingdoms. And it gave the Mountain someone to joust with. And Anguy.
Oh, and it was also an excuse to get Paul Kaye a part in the show.
Event: Halfhand and Snow share dialogue about Jon’s future.
In Season 2 Episode 6, Qhorin Halfhand tells Jon that his death will be a gift for those south of the Wall.
Dead Jon Logic: As Jon Snow presumably knew nothing, apparently Qhorin Halfhand knew something. Or did he?
If the situation remains the same, you would have to assume the Walkers are headed south to a Wall lightly guarded by a few Crows which would mean that “the Gift” that Qhorin referred to would consist of the frozen dead knocking on everyone in the south’s front door and singing Christmas carols.
Thanks Qhorin. Merry Christmas, Mother F******rs.
Event: The Stare-Down Between Jon and the Night’s King
Dead Jon Logic: In an attempt by the show runners to pay homage to the greatest Old Spice commercial ever, Jon and the Night’s King took part in an epic stare down on the banks of Hardhome. The “Come at me Bro” thing was a cute meme, but the true intention here escaped many now that we know Jon indeed remains a corpse.
Night’s King: “Look at your man. Now back to me. Now back at your man. Now back to me. Sadly he isn’t me, and will be dead before this ad is over.”
Two things can be assumed from this inclusion… 1. David and Dan at times do inconspicuously include product placement in the show and 2. The Night’s King smells good. The only justifiable reason to include Jon in the scene was to demonstrate that Frozen Maul can in fact, raise the dead. But we already knew that.
Since Jon remains deceased, it would have made abundantly more sense to depict the stare down between Maul and say, maybe Wun Wun. After all, Wun Wun is still alive.
Event: The Burning of Shireen
Initially done to help Stannis in his battle against the renowned hockey franchise, the “Northern Flayers,” the heinous act of torching his own daughter had little to no effect other than clearing a little snow off of the road.
Dead Jon Logic: The only comprehensible reason for this to be done considering the fate of Stannis was to potentially assist someone else. Many of us presumed that to be Jon.
But since he stays dead, Shireen’s “Kum ba Yah” death scene was included for pure shock value and to enrage what was left of the few GoT viewers following the infamous Ramsay/Sansa wedding/bedding.
And I can assure you that if this beautiful, smart, wonderful actress and fandom-loving person died for nothing more than that, there will be hell to pay for someone.
Event: Aemon’s statement to Sam in the library.
Just before the “Kill the Boy” speech, Aemon is speaking to Sam in the library and says, “A Targaryen alone in the world… a terrible thing” just as Jon enters the scene.
Dead Jon Logic: Historically in television, this is an old Jedi mind trick used to show affiliation by way of misdirection. In this case, the inference is that Jon may have some Targaryen heritage.
But since ManBun remains kaput, the significance (if any) would apply only to Dany, which is who the two were speaking about in the first place. Maybe Sam joins up with her later, as his potential return to the Wall now looks unlikely. Because, you know, Jon stays dead.
Which leads us to this…
Event: All the talk about that other Targaryen guy.
Dead Jon Logic: To the “casual” viewer, these mentions could be assessed as simple backstory to Dany’s claim to the throne and the type of ruler she would eventually want to become. Some viewers may not even perceive the mentions as anything other than filler dialogue (think about it… the President can’t even remember Tyrion’s name).
Full disclosure: I am aware of the theory. And to all the Unsullied that have no clue what I am talking about, do not anguish. Be surprised (and/or disappointed, depending on your POV).
But this is the thing…
For the most part, everything that has transpired thus far in the show has some sort of purpose (sans Pod’s lovemaking abilities, and maybe all of the Snake scenes). The inclusion of the Targaryen story holds significance without Jon in the picture. But it potentially holds a hell of a lot more with him in it.
But because it coheres to the colossal amount of backstory and the escalation of Jon’s story arc, the entirety of the production harmonizes now that we take as fact that Snow, shall forever, remain a corpse.
Right?
Right.
Now they’re just fucking with us.
And it’s still better than the Three-Eyed Raven “visions.”
Can the show go on without him? Sure. Can all of the loose ends that the death of Jon left dangling be mended? Absolutely.
Maybe he won’t be resurrected. Maybe all of the events listed above have some other quintessential significance that we are either ignoring or haven’t been exposed to. Maybe I’ve unknowingly joined the Dead Jon Denial club.
One thing is almost certain… if Jon is gone forever, then the show runners arguably have more questions to answer than if he were to be revived. And maybe that could explain why we are already aware that the series has been extended to eight seasons.
Of all things, at least that would somewhat make sense.
That’s a rap for the Oz today, boys and girls. A man hopes that you have all been good this year and are currently listed on the page entitled “nice.” I am quite certain that other evidence-laden events were left out, so feel free to let me know what I missed. And also, who’s next for Looking Forward?
To all my Sullied friends, it’s becoming painfully obvious that the Jolly Fat Man will not be putting a book in your stocking this year. For at least one more Christmas, you’ll have to settle for Santa Claus.
Melikalikimaka. And may there always be peace in your realm. -Oz
“Unbowed. Unbent. Unsullied.”
**SPOILER NOTE: The Management of this fine site would like to remind you that spoilers (book or leaks) are not allowed in Unsullied posts. This includes spoilers covered by code or otherwise. No spoilers at all! Personally, I appreciate feedback from Sullied and Unsullied alike, so long as they do not include any type of hinting or conversation related to the written verse or filming leaks. However, spoiler coded comments do tend to lead to further Sullied conversation and for that reason, we ask that you please refrain from posting any SPOILERY content whatsoever in Unsullied posts. Thank you for the co-op. -Oz
This is the best part of the off-season. I’ll read when I have more time, but I just wanted to be among the first to wish you back to the fold, Oz. Looking forward to yet another season’s worth of looking ahead.
HODOR
Arent we all unsullied now???
Testing…..having trouble posting.
Oh this is gonna be good!!
Thank-you!
I don’t get it. What exactly was the point of this?
To have some fun?
OT…..I have a post that isn’t going through possibly because of the links….they are all to songs. Moderators, please check email and let me know why it isn’t posting. Appreciated muchly.
Jeff O’Connor,
Thank you Ser Jeff.. most happy to be here.
crabber son,
Perhaps Sue would be better equipped to answer this. As it pertains to spoilery filming leaks, many choose not to read those as well. And all we have is speculation.
Ah, thanks for the quick reply…..it is because I have six links in the post, so I will make it two posts instead of one and hope you guys enjoy it…
Here goes
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Obviously if Jon is NOT going to come back, this changes everything. In fact, D & D will have to opt out and turn the show over to the writer of Mamma Mia on Broadway and all characters will now sing ABBA songs for the remaining three seasons.
Who can forget the title tune Mamma Mia sung by Daenerys:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5d6cPSOzTI
And then we have SOS sung by the fabulous Cersie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfRaBsDhNaI
After Cersie plays Carrie and uses her desire for fire, we have Jaime lip syncing to Waterloo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n9nMKZSN2c
TBC
crabber son,
Nope. Not even close. There’s lots of stuff from the books that hasn’t made it onscreen yet, not to mention the fact that flashbacks/memories and history that we read in the books inform a lot of the theories and predictions that we make about the show. So there’s still quite a difference between Unsullied and book readers.
Patrick,
A good satirical chuckle.
and continuing on…..
Jaime isn’t aware, but the biggest song of the new forward thinking show is Brienne, here pining away for her one handed ‘in her own mind’ lover with Take a Chance on Me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLr1cmN17E0
Meanwhile Sansa who is now dancing in the snow and looking for family will belt out this all time favorite Dancing Queen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N1DdwrsdTo
And in the end….we have Arya Stark, who will laugh up her sleeve as she sings The Winner Takes It All to close season 8:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyIOl-s7JTU
Being in rehearsals now D & D are also contemplating doing the last three seasons set to nothing but Beatles songs from 1964. But this is just being kicked around at the moment. ABBA offers so much and really is a fitting way to send off our fallen soldier….
Good night and good luck in the next movie role. We will miss you John Snow. Peace Out!!
Patrick,
To sarcastically attempt to make sense of the idea that Jon Snow remains deceased and enjoy the absurdity. Or don’t. Regardless, a man appreciates you checking it out.
Hello, I am one of the fairly new followers on this site. This was a good read, laughed a lot.
Merry Christmas!
Only four more months.
Thanks for the chuckle!!
JCDavis,
Bravo JC.
Unfortunately, all I can hear in my warped mind is the vocal majesty of Pierce Brosnan in the theatrical adaptation of “Mamma Mia.” Thank you for that.
Still wondering how the White Walker’s clothes falls apart too when Jon kills him. xD
Just want to say Hi to OZ, good to see your wit on the page again, looking forward to all your posts when the season starts. As far as Jon staying dead? Can’t even form a thought in my head about it. Nope, can’t have it. no no no, …..
JCDavis,
ABBA fan, m’lady? Anyway, I had a good laugh and remembered how I enjoyed ABBA when I was a child. Thanks for your humour, Jon’s not being revived would have been so harsh, that tears could be the only answer.
WotW’s version of ‘It’s a Wonderful Life’
How will Planetos end up w/out Jon?
All of Westoros ends up in Winter forever.
To survive you have to cross the sea & live in a warmer climate With funner culture (Due to Tyrion & Varys in charge ;))
Dany & all her crew are all there, along w/Sam & fam, Arya, Nymeria, Hot Pie, Davos, Brienne, Bronn, Tormund, Ed, Gendry, WunWun, & Hodor
Great read?.I believe the Nobel Prize for Literature is still up for grabs next year?! A woman is hoping .
JON SNOW IS DEAD!
What ever happens from now on is anyones guess.
Except for D & D.
This is my first post ever. Is there anyone else on this site from beyond the wall (Scotland)
Wallbies? No. Wallabies!
Mother of madness,
Thank you m’lady. And please pass me whatever it is you are consuming today. 🙂
To hell with those presumptuous concerns about Jon…I’d be worried a bit more that they haven’t found your sweet Lysa’s body…..yet. 🙂
MaesterMercy,
ABBA will teleport to the new Westoros location for entertainment & cabinet positions
Hodors Bastard,
My dear Lysa is scheduled to be resurrected in Season 6 as well.
Another entertaining post, Oz. Particularly loved the Dead Jon Logic about the bounce of his “lovely black flowing locks of man hair.” And thanks for remembering our sweet Shireen.
Happy holidays, Oz.
joffreysbleedingeyes,
Always wanted to be a Wallaby. WotW made my dreams come true ?
No matter how funny Oz was, finally I got the terrible possibility: no Jon anymore. By the old gods and the new, it’s like Jeoffrey coming to life again and killing Tommen’s cats! I don’t understand how you can stay Unsullied, Oz, but I’ll play by your rules by imagining Apocalypse Westeros now. The horror, the horror…
So, Davos is accused of being Stannis’s killer, is sentenced to death and decapitated by Thorne (only because Ilyn Payne was travelling during his holidays). Ramsey finds Sansa, kills Theon, she has Ramsey’s child and dies in childbirth. Walda kills Ramsay’s baby, Ramsay kills the rest of his family and becomes the King in the North. Cersei kills Brienne out of jealosy, Jaime kills Tyrion as a revenge for Tywin, Daario kills Jamie for letting Daenerys with no adviser. Viserion and Rhaegal fry and eat Daenerys, angry for being imprisoned. Jorah, heartbroken, kills the two dragons. Drogon avenges his brothers by frying and eating Jorah, but not before Jorah spreading greyscale in Meereen. Misandei and Greyworm catch it and flee to Westeros, where they spread the disease before dying. Arya kills Cersei, but is killed by ser Robert Strong who becomes the new king. Ramsey’s and Robert Strong’s armies go to war, Ramsey wins and tries to flay Robert Strong. Because the latter doesn’t feel any pain and couldn’t die, Ramsay commits suicide. Sam, Gilly and her son are killed by Randyll Tarly. The Faith Militant kill Loras and Margaery becomes a septa – for her is crueler than dying. Lady Olenna marries Pycelle – the most horrible fate.
Well, that’s the punishment for keeping Jon dead!
Mother of madness,
Here here! Cheers!
Hodors Bastard,
Yes, & where is BenJen?? & Gendry, po’ lil’ fella
Oz Man
I couldn’t find enough acid brain wash solution to get that out of my medulla oblongata. Love Pierce Brosnan, they should NEVER let him sing again. He was TERRIBLE…right?
On another “note”, it is so great to see you back again. I can’t wait until we have the actual date of the first show for season 6 so that you can get that clock going again.
As ever, a woman is impressed with your commentary. Always a delight and a treat to read when the Oz man posts.
She Lady Dragon
Thanks. Really it was the first musical that came to mind. I almost went with West Side Story, which would have had better songs to choose from, but ABBA is a group that you either hate or love. Kinda like our GoT’s. 😀
I VOTE FOR WALLABIES!!!
Shy Lady Dragon,
Whoa…exciting…but having Ilyn Payne take a holiday is a bit hard to digest. There’s a lotta work to do!
Hodors Bastard,
The sindicat must give him a bit of holiday or he goes on strike. I let the other characters continue his good work, he won’t be missed.
Oh Oz… FINALLY!
Makes me so happy to have a an unsulliedverse once again.
As someone who has also avoided spoilers/leaks….
I cannot see how, from a logical perspective, Jon doesn’t come back.
But you absolutely made some good points as to why he doesn’t. LOLs.
If he doesn’t come back, I will be very annoyed. LIKE VERY ANNOYED. And the poster and teaser would just be plain RUDENESS by the show/creators
Loved the read as per usual. Especially the stare down… LOL
I cant wait to read more, all the parts. Are we giving suggestions on what we want your looking forward topics to be about.
Shy Lady Dragon,
Wow?!? That is brilliant! I love it!
Can we have any survivors escape to essos in a fun & happy culture?
Shy Lady Dragon,
So who ends up on the throne? LOL. Loved your synopsis. 😀
Yes ma’am. Go for it.
JCDavis,
Thanks. On the throne I put… Walder Frey!
Shy Lady Dragon,
Olenna marries Pycelle… potentially the worst outcome of everything you wrote. I might have to steal that one. 🙂
You only left out one thing, the biggest reptile: Littlefinger emerges from beneath the rock where he was hiding, rises through the ashes and becomes the King of everything – which might happen anyway. Shudder…
MaesterMercy,
Thanks. Only the bad and the worst will survive. So, the WW will be so disgusted, that they will come back to their old realm.
Thronetender,
Littlefinger becomes Hand for King Walder, the first of his name.
Hey, I really enjoyed that. Thanks!
Rapunzel… brilliant!
I was watching with great anticipation when that episode came on. I watched it, but mostly watched my wife to see her unsullied facial expression. Horror. She looks at me, and says “He doesn’t stay dead….RIGHT?”
And I, for the first time since we started to watch the show, honestly answered her with “I have no idea, that story arc has caught up to the books now. I’ve been wondering that same question for a long time.”
Then she made threats about never watching again. Can’t wait to see what happens, I really really hope the book comes out before next season, but if it doesn’t it will be great to be surprised, one way or another for a change.
I always enjoy your posts, Oz, your way with words makes me smile.
You should do a post one day collating your success at predicting what’s coming in the show, I ‘d like to know what your strike rate is ☺.
By the way… Pod’s lovemaking abilities… that was certainly meaningless for the show – though fun.
Newbietothegame,
If this is your first time reading an Oz post, you can already tell what a treat it is to read his work. These “Looking Forward” posts are always fun, and even though I’m Sullied, one of the things I look most forward to during the season are his Unsullied reviews.
Super Northener,
Welcome to the Wall!!! 🙂
There are posters here from all over the world, so, yes, there are bound to be some from beyond Hadrian’s Wall.
JCDavis,
Ends up on the throne? Why – The Nights King of course.
love oz’s posts!
Shy Lady Dragon,
Haha. That was good. You forgot one arc though.
As all of this is happening, Bran is watching it and feeling sad for not being able to help out his loved ones. He orders Hodor to Kill him self.
The End!
Hodor!
Great to have you back Oz. The next four months of waiting will be eased by your Looking Forward posts in addition to any other scraps of info we get until the first trailer.
Darkstar,
Thank you, ser, for giving the last blow on this carnage. The White Walkers’ North remembers!
Roast,
That is hysterical
Thanks for your witty post Oz – well your posts have always been witty thus far, but this being the first for a long time it was good to read.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Thank you for the reply. I have read the books once, and I am on my 2nd watch of the DVDs having watched the original airing, and I cant get enough.
The Dragon Demands,
Way to post about how something happens in the books on an Unsullied thread. *facepalm*
Super Northener,
It’s pretty addictive, isn’t it!?! 🙂
The Dragon Demands,
Dude, seriously. This is not the right thread for this comment.
Everyone seems to miss what I feel is the reason why the prostitutes don’t take any money from Pod. It’s not because he’s some sex god or is particularly well-endowed. The clue is in the scene immediately preceding it. Tyrion is talking with Littlefinger and Littlefinger says “I hear you owe that boy a significant debt”, referring to Pod’s having saved Tyrion during the Battle of Blackwater. Tyrion responds with humor then Littlefinger says “I owe you a significant debt”, referring to Tyrion having obtained Roz’s freedom. So it is my contention that Littlefinger instructed his prostitutes to not accept any money from Pod as a payback to Tyrion.
Anyway, that’s my two cents – spend it wisely.
Wall Builder,
That’s a very interesting explanation and I feel it can be the truth. But I’m sorry for poor Pod…
The Dragon Demands,
Hmm, which part of **SPOILER NOTE: The Management of this fine site would like to remind you that spoilers (book or leaks) are not allowed in Unsullied posts. This includes spoilers covered by code or otherwise. No spoilers at all!
did you not understand?
Yes, first Oz post for me. I could not possibly go back through read everything when I joined in the Summer.
OZ!!!!!!!! Welcome Home!!!!! So good to read you again! Looking forward to your next Looking Forward! How about speculation on the fate of Sansa and Theon, or Dany and Drogon? Really, feel free to speculate on anything–I’ll read it!
All the best to Ozette and the Ozlings!!
Super Northener,
Welcome! Sit down! Put your feet up! Have a drink! 😉
(Oz….I’m trying to dance carefully with this response….not trying to upset the apple cart in any way)
Hodors Bastard,
Please disregard his comment. This post is not the place for book discussion at all.
Oh I posted my comment and it didn’t show up 🙁
Here it is again Oz, some suggestions
Dany’s fate with the dothraki
Theon and Sansa’s next move
The fate of Ellaria and the Sand Snakes
Cersei and her new friend next moves
What will Tormund and the wildlings do now that Jon is dead 🙁
What will happen at the wall
Some suggestions…
Omg im too excited for season 6
Deesensfan,
Oh and BRAN!!
Newbietothegame,
But the Dragon DEMANDS!
Martin has always been very generous with his responses to TDD’s queries on the NAB. People unable to read between the lines would think Martin was telling TDD to fuck right off and take it somewhere else.
Sorry, sorry:
1 – To clarify I said “kill” loosely – I should have said “stab”. I have no idea if they killed him or not, no more than anyone who watched it. (I mean “decide to kill” – obviously they wouldn’t “decide to wound him a bit”, but who knows if they succeeded?)
2 – Regarding the Ramsay motivation in the book version, the episode already moved past it, so I’m confused, isn’t that not a spoiler anymore?
Okay then: ignoring the novels, will the TV version ever explain why the Night’s Watch officers would choose to attack Jon *after* letting the wildlings through the Wall? If that indeed is their sole motivation in the TV version? It seems illogical.
Ack ack ack:
I’m sorry I didn’t realize this was officially an Unsullied thread/posting when I posted originally, I was absent-mindedly clicking through headlines.
That being said: to reiterate, I have no idea if Jon is dead or alive, anymore than anyone else, I should have phrased that better.
The Dragon Demands,
Hey TDD, I rather enjoyed your concern, and I thought it had some merit in this thread as well, but we pissed off Sue and disrespected Oz, which I regret. We could follow-up in another thread (BBF’s theory thread?) if you want.
Wall Builder,
Good point.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DPatz13/status/677598428055126016
Kit Harington and John Bradley were in Belfast as of last night. Good to hear John Bradley was also filming.
At this point I’m more concerned about upsetting Sue and Oz, I didn’t want to step on anyone. Again, sorry.
Sou,
That may have been a set-up for his current situation with Brienne, who has already learned that he can handle a weapon, and may learn even more about him in season 6.
Cumsprite,
Do you expect anything more from someone who admires Linda?
Ohgod. Even when I just lurked thus site, I loved reading your posts. The most of everything, I think. Even more than spoilers.
Can you do *all* the subplots? Obviously, Dany next, but I’d love you to do some predictions on where you think Dorne and King’s Landing are going!
Definitely going to start more of my sentences with “A Man….”
Great Read
Oh look , another humorless visitor from afoiaf .
Personally, I’m not enjoying having this cliffhanger death for almost a whole dang year lol. Don’t want to but…losing interest. I don’t have the patience. That’s why I like to binge watch stuff, like I did with the first seasons, and that got me interested, being able to do that. Besides that when I get really invested in a character, which is rare, I don’t find it entertaining to see him fall in such gut-wrenching way and then have my emotions played with via “He’s deader than dead” and the actor saying “Yeah all I know is I’m not coming back, we said our goodbyes etc” but then later hearing how he could be rez’d however you have to wait until spring to find out, maybe even the season AFTER next. They should have just have him and everyone else say No comment. So Bah Humbug! I’m over this not knowing and having to wait so long lol.
Eh, just having one of those days . I enjoyed the article regardless 🙂
Davyth Stark,
I agree… Oz got my attention right off the bat with that start… fab!
So fun!
Wow. First, this was a good and entertaining article… and it’s kinda funny in a good way we are still talking about this. I still hear this talk while out-and-about myself 🙂
Second, I find it hilarious that an article like this comes from a show watcher since a few days ago in the 2015 Poll article we had another pejorative comment from a frequent poster (and apparent book despiser) that said, “Those fans who are highly devoted and spend a lot of time thinking about these things tend to loop the loop, overcomplicating their interpretations of the source material because the original reading doesn’t really do it for them anymore.” Sooo, is the show “not doing it” for TV watchers anymore? It is comments like this that help keep the fandom divided just as much, if not more, than the far, far right book readers.
Hilarious take, truly Oz you made me laugh. It’s one of your better ideas!
Judibatt,
I think you are overthinking here.
Judibatt,
So if you don’t share the same opinion as other people on some theories you are a ”book despiser”? Good too know..
The Dragon Demands,
You didn’t know this was an Unsullied thread… Seven hells, I don’t know if I should laugh or shake my head! I forgive you for the book talk 😛
Here’s a sign of good faith: if you’re ever in Toronto, drop by this place: http://www.cestwhat.com/ I’ve heard from a friend they have decent food, good brew & good music too. You might enjoy it!
Thronetender,
Hi probably a wee bit late but I am also from Beyond the Wall!
Welcome to the site – a great way to get through the off Season (This is the first year I watched when it was on TV after binge watching the first 4 seasons)
So great to have Oz back with these Looking Forward posts!! I have lurked on this site-and the other- since season 2. Mostly a fantastic bunch of folks with some great theories and discussions. As an Unsullied myself, Oz and his posts are greatly missed until Looking Forwards come back around. Happy holidays to all and can’t wait to suffer thru these next few months with you =)
Judibatt,
I’m not sure what you find pejorative about the comment you quoted, even the part you italicized. I even went back and read the entire post from which you took your quote to make sure I wasn’t missing anything. If someone despises the books, why in the world would they reread over and over, or try and come up with new theories? Why would they need something to tide them over until the next installment? It just doesn’t make any sense to me, nor does it make any sense to me to take a comment like that and claim those are the sorts of observations which divide the fan base.
On a different note:
Just wait until the season starts. As I already mentioned, Oz does Unsullied reviews of each episode, and they’re fantastic. Beyond the great writing, I personally really enjoy the perspective of someone who has not read the books. Also, if you have never seen Axey’s twitter recaps (oft imitated, never equaled), well, I think you’ll love those, too. There are other wonderful regular features, but I’ve probably already sung enough praises for you to get the general idea. 🙂
The Dragon Demands,
They kept Jon alive because of Stannis. They knew he was his man. Once news of Stannis’ death/defeat hit the NW Jon was doomed. B & W merged the storylines so that the Nights Watch loyalists left Jon alone until Stannis was dead. Why have a scene with Alistair hesitating to let them in and then grudgingly doing so? They didn’t want to cross Stannis.
Joshua Atreides,
Also, the argument that Thorne shouldn’t have opened the gates is ridiculous.
Jon easly had enough man too break it and kill Thorne and the others.
This way Thorne has a lot more room for maneuver.
Because Ser Aliser broke the fourth wall super pissed when he realized the script landed Jon Snow on the wrong side of the Wall when he came from Hardhome? Probably thought to himself: “Oh, shit! How the hell did this guy get to be written as Lord Commander when he can’t even land his ships and army on the right side of the magical 700 foot Wall? And now I have to let him in?! Open the gates to fucking 5,000 Wildlings when we didn’t open for “the largest army the Wall has ever seen” of 100,000 before?! Seven help me, what a fuck up!”
Well, you did ask :p
Strange, that gif of Jon slaying the White Walker I see as him swinging the sword from right to left, yet sometimes it appears as swinging from left to right. This only works when I have the brightness on my phone turned down really low. Reminds me of the black/blue and gold/white dress scene on tumblr awhile back (I saw both).
Ashara Payne,
Holy S***! I just saw that too!
Kit was at the GOT wrap party trying to be sneaky 😉
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3366196/Kit-Harington-spotted-Game-Thrones-wrap-party-Northern-Ireland-fuelling-speculation-return.html
In the books Mance and Stannis are still alive. If season 5 implies , and I think it does , that they both perish before getting to Dream of Spring, I think GRRM is indulging in too much Shaddydogism (not that Shaggy Dog).
George has set things up so it seems the Big HooHa with The Others , is, I guess, in Dream, there really should be a substantial number of protagonists left, even if everybody dies, in the end!
It gets to be “know this major character?”, well forget it!
Anna,
The most logical explanation to Jon bringing the wildlings to the “wrong” side of the Wall has already been offered by a couple of posters before: Jon knew he could not bring them to the Gift without getting symbolic or official persmission from the Watch achieved by leading them through the gates of the Wall. Imagine how northen Lords would respond if the Lord Commander shows up with that amount of wildings on their lands, saying: “Nevermind us, just passing through!!”
Morna the Witch,
I don’t actually agree with that explanation, hence my joking answer. We are talking about the same LC who singlehandedly decided to help Wildlings and bring them south of the wall regardless of what the rest of the Watch thought. I doubt the symbolic permission is something he would be bothered with. For me it doesn’t fit.
Never mind that Jon would have climbed the Wall anyway if Ser Aliser would have said : “No. I’m not letting you lot through, I don’t care what the script says!”
Just because some accept an idea as a good explanation for an oddity, doesn’t make it an universally accepted truth! It is known.
I was also joking. It is Friday evening. If I can’t make a joke now, when can I? 🙂
Nadia,
This gives me life, thanks for posting 🙂
Kit at the Game of Thrones Season 6 Wrap Party – Ulster Museum, Belfast
Kit lives,Jon Stark-Targaryen lives… or Jon (Kit) troll us?NAAAAAAAAA,enough
https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/1934461_694088380693385_1869900715520411500_n.jpg?oh=eb4fd5811a01acd5ee87bf8f8fee1f67&oe=571056D6
Anna,
I took it as a joke 🙂
I think Jon is in a position where he is instigating (right word?), maybe facilitating social change in Westeros, which is why he is doing things that are outside the norm of Northern or Nights Watch thought regarding wildlings. It is a large part of his story (bastards are sympathetic to outsiders, etc.) However, I still believe he had to be considerate of how these factions operate, hence the decision to bring them to the North side. It is what his conflict largely consists of in aDwD (eventhough I don’t want to refer to the books on this thread.) The symbolic act works for the TV universe, in my opinion.
“Just because some accept an idea as a good explanation for an oddity, doesn’t make it an universally accepted truth! It is known. ”
I’m not sure what you mean with this, but it might be too early in the morning for me.
Jon was a red herring. The true savior of Westeros is going to be Dondarrion. Also Shireen’s sacrifice was actually very powerful, and will have the effect of keeping the north sunny through the whole winter.
I wonder what the Wights have been doing with Craster’s boy babies, exactly. And, if the number of babies donated to the Wight’s is significant.
There have been 99 boy babies born of Craster’s incestuous relations with his daughters. The 99th was little Sam, Gilly’s boy. That baby was saved by his mother running away with him – with big Sam’s help.
If the number is significant to the Wights, for some reason, then they’ll be really ticked off at being deprived of the final(99th) baby. I imagine that they’ll want that baby back! If they can’t get him back, they want a substitute for whatever monstrous plan they’re executing. That substitute might be our curly-haired, fully grown Jon.
I have to presume they let Craster and daughters live for a reason, and that’s to supply boy babies.. but why?
Anon,
White Walkers. Not Wights. The Wights are the zombies the White Walkers control.
We saw what the White Walkers do with Craster’s babies in “Oathkeeper”, the fourth episode of season four. They turn them into new White Walkers —not just mindless thralls as they do with dead men; it looked like that baby was being turned into an actually sentient White Walkers.
JCDavis,
Hodor….of course! 😉
ProTip, TDD: Reading is fundamental.
Oz, I always enjoy your take on things. While I’m still fully sullied through all 5 books, I’m one of those seemingly rare creatures who can love both mediums of the story and can appreciate them both as intertwined but ultimately separate entities. Looking forward to GoT season and more regular posts 🙂
bulzz,
Objects frozen in liquid nitrogen (very, very, very cold) shatter when dropped. It’s not an impossibility, science wise.