It was only this morning that we got our first look at the final touches at Trujillo Castle before filming started. Now it has —And, despite the high walls, there is plenty to see! In the pictures from today’s shoot, you’ll get to see one of our favorite knight duos, Ser Jaime and Ser Bronn, standing watch over the walls of a Lannister held-stronghold.
Please consider the following contains season seven spoilers. You have been warned!
The local Spanish newspapers HOY and elPeriódico shared pictures of today’s filming. First, we can see Nicolaj Coster-Waldau, Jerome Flynn and the extras arriving:
Along with them there was someone who may be an extra but looks like a British actor. He has that je-ne-sais-quoi —a Britishness, an actorness. Does someone recognize him?
Later, filming started and we can see Jaime and Bronn in their familiar getups. While their soldiers stand watch and work, the knights have a talk on the battlements:
One of HOY‘s photos may go unnoticed, but it is quite revealing, as it shows Lannister men holding their flags, probably to plant them on the castle and mark their conquest:
All the evidence points to Trujillo Castle being a particular stronghold. The last photo paints a clear picture, especially if considered along with Los Siete Reinos reporting the soldiers were seen taking the barrels we previously saw in the caravans, which the Lannisters will use to take their booty from their enemy’s sacked stronghold… Only to then be fatally ambushed by a certain someone. We’ll have to wait and see if this location doubles as Casterly Rock (as we suspect might have happened with Almodóvar del Río), but there is now little doubt Trujillo Castle is being used for Highgarden’s walls.
Nevertheless, the camera placement shows we won’t see more than the castle’s walls and courtyard in this scene. As usual, much of the stronghold will be “built” via CGI. What’s more, the show’s faraway castle panoramas are always entirely artificial, whether it is a matte painting or, now that they can afford it, a digital 3D model. If you need a visual cue of the stark difference between location and finished product, just take a look at Castle Ward Estate, where Winterfell was initially filmed. It doesn’t quite capture the ancient enormity of Winterfell, does it? Neither do Almodóvar or Trujillo capture the grandeur of Highgarden. Please, don’t be quick to judge a stronghold by its location!
Tomorrow, Game of Thrones travels at long last to nearby Malpartida, with three days at Las Breñas and three weeks at Los Barruecos, for one of the season’s crucial sequences; The Lannisters will be returning to the capital with all the Highgarden treasures they “collected” in today’s shoot when the much-teased ambush against them will take place. Then, what are likely to be King’s Landing scenes will be filmed in the Old Town of Cáceres for about a week… And by Christmas the production will have left Spain!
So, despite initial reports of a three-day shoot at Trujillo, that likely included prep-time; Some crew members may stay to film actor-less scenes of the castle tomorrow, but Nikolaj Coster-Waldau and Jerome Flynn have no time for another day’s work at Trujillo. Along with James Faulkner and perhaps others, they must go to Malpartida, where the longest and most exciting sequence shot in any of the Spanish locations awaits!
The unidentified actor looks a lot like my original dream casting for Coldhands, Michael Wincott.
Ah, the Lannister soldiers holding flags do indeed point to HG… I wasn’t seeing it otherwise ?
Hodor!
gewa76,
Yeah that’s what a friend said earlier. Hmmm. Wincott is Canadian, and we don’t see a lot of those working on GoT, but he’s also worked with HBO recently (on Westworld). There’s no evidence it’s him, as far as resumes go. Wondering if it’s just someone who looks like him?
I have no clue who the mysterious actor is but I suppose we’ll speculate on what character he could be playing… With his age and dress one would think he’s a bit more important than a simple soldier. He’s not wearing Lannister garb… He could be on the Tyrell side of things such as their army commander. Maybe they’d introduce a Tyrell relative for such a position, like Jon Fossoway or maybe a Redwyne… shrug.
Yes he is. Black and red is how most Lannisters dress.
Only Lannisters were involved in today’s shoot. If this is indeed an actor, he is part of the Lannister faction. I would say a commander Jaime leaves the castle to while he and Bronn return home… but that’s just an assumption.
or maybe he’s with Tarly, like say, Mathis Rowan.
Could the unidentified actor stand-in for a Tarly commander who will be left in charge of the castle?
From all the spoilers, it sounds like the taking of Casterly Rock and Highgarden will be mostly shot indoors in studios in N.I. Only a few establishing shots outside, and for HG especially. The big event will be The Ambush. I am now hoping that the ambush and the taking of CR occur simultaneously – showing the beginning of the downfall of the Lannisters.
Clob,
Redwyne makes sense if they are going to show more naval scenes next season.
Luka Nieto,
Well, if you zoom way in and count a bit of red around his neck, sure. What I was saying is that he’s not dressed like the standard Lannister soldier we see in the other shots.
So with your knowledge you know that they don’t hold any prisoners – everyone in the scenes they’re shooting are just Lannisters?
Bronn was promised a larger castle and a more beautiful wife.. Jaime sacks Highgarden.. Lord Tarly is ambitious and has a daughter.. HMMM…
My guess the actor (who isn’t Greg Wise but someone like him in age range) is playing Daven Lannister or Addam Marbrand. Could be Casterley Rock too. We don’t know.
Ser Oromis Locke,
Talla Tarly has already been promised to some dude (I don’t recall his name but it was mentioned); on the other hand she apparently doesn’t like that dude, so why not?
Ser Bronn, Lord of Highgarden…how cool would that be.
Inga,
Simon Fossoway is what she said, and that “he has yellow teeth..”
Why is Bronn still hanging out with Jaime?
I imagine they’ll keep prisoners, or the matter may not be addressed. The assault itself seems to have been shot at Almodóvar (remember all those bloodied Tyrell soldiers?). This is the actual sacking. They’re taking everything that’s worth anything and stealing it away. By the time of the scene they filmed at Trujillo, I don’t think the Tyrell soldiers will be in play in any way.
We do. It’s not Casterly Rock.
Just as Grey Worm being at Almodóvar made us think they might have filmed some Casterly Rock scenes as well as the Highgarden assault, because we’ve been told Grey Worm never goes to Highgarden, Jaime and Bronn being here means it’s not Casterly Rock. Characters will move pretty fast this season, but even then they don’t have time for everything. As far as our sources are concerned, neither Jaime nor Bronn are involved in any Casterly Rock scene.
Watch season six, episode seven, and find out. They lay it out quite clearly.
Ummm why doesn’t Bronn have any armor on him? Jaime’s is awesome as always but its ridiculous that they don’t give Bronn one if he’s in a full scale battle.
I don’t think Bron will be in a full scale battle at Highgarden. He will be in the ambush, but that battle is not expected. Knowing him, if he is involved in the taking of Highgarden, it will be a sneak attack. He’ll want to be agile. Remember Bronn’s big introduction, against Ser Vardis at the Eyrie? Bronn excels at being quick and taking advantage of the slowness of his armored enemies.
Luka Nieto,
I understand, but even in the Eyrie duel he wore some sort of shirt sewn with steel discs, seeing him fight in a stylish modern jacket totally takes me out of the show and ruins the immersion. To be honest it’s one of my biggest gripes with the show especially since literally dozens of pages in the books are dedicated to descriptions of armors and weapons.
Luka Nieto,
Assistant commander of some Lannister troops? Why is Bronn still hanging out with Jaime?
Nex,
He’s a rogue, a mercenary assassin, the kind of guy who wants complete agility and stealth, in particular if the takeover of Highgarden involves a sneak attack.
Where have we seen him fight with his stylish jacket, anyway? Except training with Jaime and upon their arrival at Dorne, in the unexpected fight against the Dornish scouts, I can’t think of any time that happened. We didn’t see Bronn in the Almodóvar assault scenes, so we don’t even know if he was wearing armor.
stun,
I told you where to look for the answer. Jaime did his pitch as they arrived to Riverrun, as he had before. Money. A castle. A wife. Jaime may be slow to deliver, but it’s not like Bronn has better prospects than what he is offering.
Yay for the new guy!!!!
Joey,
Not cool at all…this means Lady Olenna is gone.
But hey, you know what…let them have HG for five seconds. Dany will come and a new FIELD OF FIRE will wipe out their forces…
Luka Nieto,
I was thinking of the future IF he’s in the coming battle as you say, he might not be. Rogue, mercenary, assassin would still wear at least chainmail underneath a tunic and as I said in the source material everybody wears armor, but hey this is a show aimed at the masses and masses want style not realism, which is again a paradox as the show has removed many fantasy elements from the original work. I still stand by my words that costuming (armor and knightly stuff, not in general) is one of the weakest part of the show.
Don’t misunderstand me I’m not hating just expressing my disappointment as I’m a huge nerd for that sort of stuff and the show hasn’t delivered at least for me.
stun,
Jaime offered Bronn command of half the Lannisters forces. Jaime told Bronn he cannot go to the highest biddder nowm that Bron is a knight swore to House Lannister.
IMO by the end Bronn will feel the tide chaning, will get tired of trying to educate Jaime in the ways of the world and will defect. Jaime, of course, will do the same…
In the picture the wooden contraption caught my eye and I thought
anti-aircraft(anti-dragon). That high up you wouldn’t need that much angle to fire on the enemy below.
Are Jamie and Bronn scanning the skies for dragons?
Ser Bronn, Lord of Highgarden…how cool would that be.
Priscila,
Bronn is as much or more of a hero than QoT. He served Tyrion and didn’t try to frame him for murder. QoT has some comeuppance to take, along with anyone else who conspired with Littlefinger.
Luka Nieto,
I know what happened in episode 7. Jaime offered him a gig as assistant commander on top of a lordship, a castle and a wife. Apparently he might get one of those in season 7 if these pictures are anything to go by (the one he didn’t really ask for, mind you). But wouldn’t he at least try to defect back to Tyrion after hearing of his return? Tyrion’s HotQ now! He has things to offer. I think.
Nex,
Yeah I get you. To each their own. I love the costuming in the show, because it’s creative, even if it’s unrealistic or anachronistic.
This is an aside, but too often, this kind of complaint sounds as meaningless to my ears as the rants about the lack of weapon realism in action movies by gun “aficionados.” There is a dry fruit-related word that may be more appropriate here, but I wouldn’t want to offend any gun nut —Oh well, see? I did it 😛
stun,
I hope he defects, yes.
Really really gutted about this but I know she’ll go out with a bang. It’ll be shade-tastic and LEAK INFO:
Just hope she reveals to Jaime it was her and LF who killed Joffrey- could possibly spell trouble for LF as well as clearing Sansa and Tyrion.
some questions luka.
So Nikolaj and Jerome are no more needed in trujillo? even the early report by you today said trujillo extended the scene with more extras (around 250) and more days of filming (until 19 nov). so will be more filming, just with the extras now in trujillo, is that it?
almovodar del rio is done, or still filming there? if is ended how many days of filming taked?
And, in the same early report by you today, some dates of los barruecos filming change AGAIN, now to 16 nov until 10 dec. so the filming of the battle starts tomorrow?
That’s because he eats his apples ripe, red and full of sugar.
Joey,
GoT is more about the grey areas than heroes. Bronn and Lady Olenna are both experienced and cinical players, but HG is no prize to be given. Tyrells did not betray the Lanisters, they were killed by them. Cersei declared war on them, for what? Because she could not stand her in law.
No, Bronn does not deserce HG. He is serving a cruel Queen who basically is holding KL hostage…
Lady Olenna killed Joffrey because she knew better, the boy was mean and would end up hurting her granddaughter. She was never keen on this alliance, but her son was intent in having Margeary as Queen…
In conclusion, bronn and olenna are no angels, but HG will not remain Lannister for too long.
Earlier today I reported HOY’s claims of 250 extras and filming till the 19th, but made clear there were some doubts and conflicting reports. Now, as far as I know, tomorrow they may film without the actors, just to take shots of the castle. I don’t know if extras will be involved. Then that’s it for Trujillo.
Filming at Almodóvar was the 12th. Only the 12th.
Las Breñas and Los Barruecos are both in Malpartida. Earlier today I might have explained filming in Malpartida would start tomorrow, the 16th, and end the 10th of December. That includes the first three days at Las Breñas and the other three weeks at El Barrueco de Arriba 🙂
EDIT: Looking at the report, there was a typo. Las Breñas starts on the 16th, but I also wrote 16th for Los Barruecos. It’s 19. Sorry about that. Fixed!
We are not actually sure if the brief Las Breñas shoot is related to the large one at Malpartida, but that’s the popular assumption. They are very, VERY close.
Luka Nieto,
oh i see now. but i find so weird the almovodar del rio being just one day, all the sources of wotw, L7r, spanish sites said would be if am no mistake a week or close to something like that. one day is really a shock to me, very weird.
and i hope , really hope this is a epic battle by daenerys and jaime sides,Emyllia said we will have a epic battle and the only one we will get on field will be this one, we have more extras and more horses than the BotB (500 extras against 400 extras of botb) (100 horses agains 40 horses of botb) and i get to know botb had 25 days filming, this 22, but the botb had more scenes than the battle itself, negociations by jon sansa and ramsay, tension, with rickon, some dialogue. The ambush is a surprise and in my vision we will only get the battle,no dialogue or other thing like in the field of BotB, and this can make this be the bisggest battle. yay.
now other question, we know or have some idea on how much Hbo will invest in season 7? like, they will pay the same as previous seasons for 7 episodes, i hope so. i really do.
Luka Nieto,
I hope both Bronn and Jamie eventually defect from Cersei. We’ve all been waiting seasons for Jamie to wake up and see Cersei for what she really is, I know the show has yet to do it but perhaps they want to make it more impactful and that’s why they are waiting so long.
I can’t help but wonder exactly how different it will be when Dany comes to Westeros in the books since Jamie is no longer on Cersei’s side.
stun,
I guess all the reports mistakenly included prep-time, not just filming.
And yeah, the ambush will be epic. The Battle of the Bastards did take a few more days to film, but it was only a few; the number of extras for the ambush is apparently larger; and certainly there will be more horses involved.
I’ve got no specifics, of course, but every season has costed more than the last. The reason they chose to do seven episodes was to afford the larger setpieces the story required. I would expect at least a small budget bump and the results on-screen to be MUCH more apparent, because of the fewer episodes.
That’s debatable. He ignores Cersei’s pleas for help and goes to help Brienne. That doesn’t mean he’s defected from his family… yet.
Aguero,
To be precise, BOTB had 500 extras (the same amount) and 70 horses.
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/06/16/game-thrones-battle-bastards-numbers
The ambush will not take nearly as much screentime as the battle at Winterfell in season 6 itself. Most likely around 15 minutes. Much more will happen in that episode. It will not feature two locations only like 609 did. And it will be in episode 2 or 3, not the big penultimate one.
So if Almodovar was only a one day shoot then where the hell are they filming Casterly Rock? Isn’t there supposed to be an attack on the castle? Would it take one day to finish filming it?
Aguero,
Also as per the article on BOTB I linked “To get a sense of how long this is, most TV dramas are shot in 8-to-12 days. And that’s for a full episode, whereas Thrones spent 25 days on this battle sequence alone (the sequence isn’t all fighting – there’s some sideline drama as well).” So you can see the battle itself took 25 days of filming
If the assault on Casterly Rock is by sea, it will be filmed in their closed-off ship set (They redress it to look like every other ship in the show, but it’s always the same one.) Then there may be a few interior Casterly Rock sets as well, sure.
At any rate, we shouldn’t expect any assault on Casterly Rock to be an immense setpiece. The ambush near Highgarden? That one will be big, though not as much as the Battle of the Bastards. And, of course, then there’s that big thing beyond the Wall they’re now preparing in that Northern Irish set and later on location in Iceland. And the sea battle. There are plenty of big action sequences next season. Individually none of them may be as large as the Battle of the Bastards, but even just a few of them together will be, I bet.
The castle lost, Lannister soldiers pouring into the courtyard and the stairwells, Lady Olenna will be the last one left and she’s going out Scarface style. “Say hello to my little friend!”
I think Almodovar del Rio does capture the grandeur of Highgarden… only in miniature form. I hope they use it as their model for the final post-CGI-enlarged Highgarden. It’s a stunning castle as it is.
aeris,
No, this information is wrong, im pretty sure there is a interview where the girl who actually brought and trained the horses says they had 40 horses. and with this information wrong i can say the 500 extras is wrong too, i read so many times in diverse sites would be 400 or 450 extras. And as you can read in your article the 25 day was not only battle, as i said too, there is no way they filmed 25 days of battle, if that the battle would be at least twice bigger, the ambush battle will probabaly only be battle and can make a bigger battle than BotB, of couse it wont have all the episode and a lot of other things will happen, but will be a really big battle and will end the episode. now that i said they have 7 episodes they can put even more money in episodes so don need to be episode 9 or 10 to be trully big.
Judging by his long face, lanky form, and how well he’s working that dress, I’m guessing that’s Littlefinger’s long-lost brother, Skeetyr Baelish.
Given that this contraption appears to be for spewing barrels or something like that, they would. Remember, they would not have very strong hurling mechanisms, so to get barrel full of pitch or something like that a decent distance from the castle, they would need a decent angle.
If they were to have “anti-aircraft,” then it would be giant crossbows (ballista). Those look very different.
What it really comes down to is that SoI&F is a modern character-drama. The “Gray Areas” are what drive the story, as character dramas always are about some aspect of people realizing that they do not fully understand themselves. Heroes are for good vs. evil stories: a character might be “heroic” in a colloquial sense in a character drama, but we never get proper heroes in this sort of tale.
Wimsey,
Hi Wimsey! Haven’t seen you here for a while. All good? [waving]
Yaaaasssss!!!! My exact thoughts :). I wonder what Cersei would say to that especially since LF openly declared for the Starks.
Apollo,
greywind,
Best Lady Olenna episode ever!
???
Littlefinger has already declared his support for House Stark, so the Lannisters are already against him now. Indeed, strictly speaking, once they realized that Baelish snookered them on the whole Northern mission, they’d probably have to assume he was colluding with Sansa from the start, so they may already assume his involvement; if not the innocence of the other people, obviously. Though Sansa and Tyrion being “cleared” really isn’t relevant now, anyway.
Luka Nieto,
I have been thinking recently that maybe the cave (grotto) in Zumaia could have been used as an entrance into the Casterly Rock, instead of Dragonstone. As for now it seems that Dany will find Dragonstone empty or almost empty and encounter no resistance, which means that there will be no need for any surprise attack through some secret tunnels. Casterly Rock is a different story. And as for the cast, I think the Unsullied were seen in Zumaia that day, as well as Varys who could probably pass as an expert of all the secret passages in Westeros including CR (especially if Tyrion draws him a layout), however we got no leaked shots from that grotto, and moreover Dany and Jon were distracting paparazzi by playing with dragons in front of their cameras.
So, what do you think: could it be possible?
Aguero,
Hmmm, nope. Since you mentioned the horse mistress, here’s the link of Camilla Naprous herself saying that they used 80 horses. https://youtu.be/B93k4uhpf7g?t=177
Also, i’m afraid that the many sites in which you’ve read that they had 400-450 extras are wrong as well. The battle required 500 extras, 600 crew members. The battle sequence itself plus the parlay did take 25 days to shoot. The other north-related scenes had nothing to do with the filming in Saintfield. Here’s another receipt: http://www.ew.com/article/2016/06/16/game-thrones-battle-bastards-numbers
I don’t know where this pointless comparison with BoB is coming from, especially when there’s something else potentially even bigger and a lot more dramatic and meaningful (if the leaks are anything to go by) in the works. I have no doubts the ambush setpiece is gonna be great, but do we really have to keep comparing it with the battle from last season, nipticking every single thing one or the other had/have? At least wait until you actually see how the battle is going to play out, geez…
I remember that scene – it ended with Bronn cutting Jaime off as Jaime was about to say the famous “Lannisters always pay their debts” line.” Bronn said, “Don’t say it, don’t fucking say it.” I laughed. But there was something else in that passage that I remember that struck me as odd. Bronn said knights don’t get paid. Don’t they? They serve for free? Does anyone else remember that? Jaime also commented about him being the head of the whole Lannister army – there were already 8000 at Riverrun supposedly, so just how big is the army supposed to be?
Aguero,
Can’t you read with comprehension? It says 25 days for the filming of battle ALONE. So no side scenes during that time. Just raw battle. And yes, 500 extras and 70 horses. EW is not the only source of that information, and they’re reliable, they’re HBO’s mouthpiece. Give it up, don’t try to deny facts to prop up some ambush (not an actual battle) because it may involve Dany.
Priscila,
“Lady Olenna … was never keen on this alliance, but her son was intent in having Margeary as Queen…”
You know, I have never bough what the Queen of Thorns said in KL: she said what she had to, but that goes against everything we know about her position in the Tyrell family. Olenna kept her son under her thumb and treated him only a little bit better that Randyll treated Sam or Tywin treated Tyrion, and taking into account that Mace’s survival strategy was playing a fool I can’t believe he did anything without his mother’s approval. Or course, Olenna loved her grandchildren and encouraged their ambitions and from what we know it was Loras who started it all by talking Renley into aspiring the Iron Throne (in order to improve his own position obviously). Margeary was also totally on board: that little whore was ready to sell her pretty body to anyone who could help her to ascend to the throne and become “the queen”. And who have mentored her to act that way? Of course, her granny: we saw a bit of that mentoring on screen too. So, I believe that it was Margeary and Loras who came up with the plan of getting onto the throne primarily because their granny taught them to pursue their ambitions selling their bodies and souls for that, if needed, and that she was behind all of their plans which eventually claimed their lives and that of Mace.
[Leak based speculation]
Thanks for the comparison of “Winterfell” pre and post production. Movie magic, if you will, is just fascinating.
Side note: I know it’s not, but something about the second picture makes it look like someone photoshopped Bronn and the food/coffee into the set image. Maybe its a combination of the graininess, and his medieval fatigues mixed with modern crew.
At this point, if Jamie and bronn have not defected and take highgarden, survive the ambush while actually showing an ability to fight back against dragons, and attend the dragon pit meeting staying on her side then there is no evidence I can imagine that makes them defect. It would be strange to defect with like 6 episodes left, and really not needed. My thinking is if the threat becomes a point where literally everyone else is fighting the others and Jaime wants to take a chunk of the army and help then he can, without a need for the disowning of his house, which at this point seems to be his main reason for not betraying her. There’s no threat to his sister in that moment if he leaves.
Sean C.,
“Littlefinger has already declared his support for House Stark, so the Lannisters are already against him now.”
Yes, but Littlefinger still has a chance to “redeem” himself by turning tables on the Starks and bringing Sansa or her head to Cersei. I hope and believe he fails, but that doesn’t mean he won’t try.
[Contains speculation on the leak]
Again we don’t know. It may have some influence on Jaime especially, if Olenna tells him that Tywin knew the truth all along: it’s legit to assume that he indeed was able to connect the dots and was OK with the fact that silly and uncontrollable Joffrey was taken out, so that may change Jaime’s attitude to the fact that Tyrion killed Tywin. As for Cersei, it won’t change much: she hated the Starks and the Tyrells, even when they acted as more or less loyal supporters of her family. However, this revelation may help her to fake her willingness to agree on the armistice and to seek compromise in the face of the WW threat. In may also push her to reveal something about Littlefinger’s doings to the Starks which will lead to his demise. In fact, the leaks gave almost no info about the Littlefinger’s story next season: him playing Sansa against Arya was rather a guess, than a fact, and though it’s possible that Littlefinger will be taken out by the joint efforts of the Stark children including Bran, it would be rather poetic, if Cersei brings her input as well.
So when will Emilia be back to filming the ambush scenes ? She said at the emmys that she has to film a huge battle in season 7.Can we expect to see here there any day now ?
TheLannistersWin,
[Contains speculation on the leak]
However, I have a feeling that Cersei will see that as a treason. IMO, she won’t be having a miscarriage: she will be having an abortion. She used to love her children once, but for her that love never “felt good”: it was a burden much more that it was a joy and moreover all of her children betrayed her (Joffrey by neglecting her, Myrcella by falling in love with Trystane Martell, and Tommen by choosing the divine Mother over his natural one). So, IMO Cersei will use her unborn child to keep Jaime by her side, but as soon as that child turns into a liability, she will chose an abortion which will make a perfect conclusion to her self-destructive arch. And Jaime will get his punishment which will conclude his arch (or at least the major section of his arch) as well. So, under such circumstances defection (probably leading to the Valonqar prophecy in S8) could make sense.
I do not completely agree with this. While it is true that Cersei’s own paranoia was one of the biggest reasons for her actions against the Tyrells, it is not true that the Tyrells did nothing to instigate her to war.
Ever since they entered into an alliance with the Lannisters, Margaery tried her best to turn Joffrey against Cersei. They chose to play this game out of their own volition, before any provocation by Cersei herself. And then killed Joffrey. It was not like Margaery was forced to marry him. They chose this marriage because they wanted power, that’s it, and then Joffrey had to be killed. The fact that Joffrey was a monster does not change the fact that he was killed without any provocation.
I highly doubt the possibilty of any scenario where Mace Tyrell is able to exert his will over Olenna and Margaery lol. Just because Olenna says that it was her son’s wish for Margaery to be queen does not mean that it was really so. Anyways, from the Lannisters/ POV, it does not matter whose ambition within the Tyrell family led to Joffrey losing his life.
And then after Joffrey’s death, Margaery once again tried to turn Tommen against his mother. Tommen was much more easier to influence than Joffrey and they all (Cersei and the Tyrells) wanted total control over the king. She would have succeeded in having Cersei banished to Casterly Rock, if she had not been arrested by the FM.
Of course none of this changes how stupid, near-sighted, crazy and dangerous Cersei herself is. It’s also true that Cersei was willing to go to an extent they themselves never would have. But it’s also true that they came into this game with their eyes open. If Cersei hadn’t done them in, they would have done Cersei in. So if they are in this situation, it is also because they chose to play the game against the Lannisters.
So if Jaime now takes control of Highgarden, well it’s fair game. If he wants to give the castle away to Bronn, he isn’t under any obligation towards the Tyrells to stop him from doing that, especially not if Olenna admits that she poisoned Joffrey.
We tend to root for the Tyrells over the Lannisters because they are the more sympathetic characters. But if you enter into the war, you stand the risk of losing everything.
Inga,
LEAK DISCUSSION
TheLannistersWin,
No, Jaime will abandon Cersei and defect, that’s the whole point of his story. He will choose Brienne and ally with Jon and Daenerys, it has always been obvious that this was Jaime’s endgame.
LEAK DISCUSSION
jdtargstark,
It’s just another stage in the Jon Vs Dany Fan Battle lmao. People want to compare everything, the budget of this ambush vs BotB, the number of extras, the number of horses, the number of filming days….
The term “ambush” does not reflect on the size of the fight. It’s just a tactic. Yes, this ambush is an “actual battle”… in which one side ambushes the other. It will be smaller than BOTB, but not by much. Almost as many extras, likely more horses, and a shorter shoot only by a few days. It will come close.
aeris,
Ok.
i was wrong. But this dont have nothing of being a dany fan. I like jon and many others much more. I just want to see big battles. And i don’t think at all that dany army will massacre Jaime s. The ambush probably will turn to a battle.
Aguero,
You were wrong in the specifics, but right overall. He’s wrong in his whole conclusion the ambush won’t be a proper battle. You don’t need more than four hundred extras and almost a hundred horses, not to mention 22 filming days, for just a quick ambush. It will be a large action setpiece —You know, a battle.
innocence,
LEAK DISCUSSION
gewa76,
I first thought the mystery actor was Mark Rylance but I think your right on the money gewa76!
ghost of winterfell,
I suppose so ..who else is there to compare when it comes to having a battle whether it is full episode or half the episode . we don’t have anyone else to compare to other than jon do we .
maybe people for a change would like to see other characters for once get a whole episode worth of screentime and have battles somewhere different when it will be the final chance to do so before the war of dawn and winter comes down
So when hearing the news of the shooting days and amount of extras and horses being used people get exited they get that .
Apparently he or she must be new so they don’t know this is always the same in the past years and this sequence will not be that big
Anyone remember photos of the Harpys killing nobles outside meereen or that of the report that dothraki filming in the closed farm in Ireland ..I was exited that this will be very big sequence and you guys know how this two scene ended up in the show..
I think the ramp on the wall are intended for shooting barrels filled with wildfire, after dragons. It also fits with Jamie , have barrels with when he travel. Wildfire are House Lannister most powerful weapon right now.
Ashara D,
*waves back* Busy. Very busy. Then Cubs.
Also, my favorite part of this sort of thing is now really impossible: discussing how best to adapt a story from one medium to another! Without knowing this, it’s really really tough to guess what these snippets of information might mean.
How goes life in Dayneland? 😀
Inga,
LEAK DISCUSSION
But I agree that she would like to keep Euron around, I don’t think she would consider marrying Jaime, and if she wants the heir it would be better to marry someone and claim the child is his, I think (actually in the books it’s not even likely that the baby is Jaime’s, but the show can make it Jaime’s I guess). So maybe in the books she will agree to marry Euron, perhaps hiding her pregnancy from him if it’s in early stages, thinking that she could claim it’s his etc. This is also just pure speculation, though. But according to leaks Euron quits in the finale anyway, he goes back to his island when he hears that the wights can’t swim, according to the leaker, so they don’t marry. I think if the leaker is right and it will be Cersei’s last scene, the screams in a bloody bed just means that she lost everything…both Jaime and Euron abandoned her, and now her last hope for an heir is gone too, proving the prophecy.
The Sandstone colour makes it look like Casterly Rock
The lighter White Stone would fit my perception of Higharden
So I personally wonder if it is being used for both?
And they are mixing the location ala Braavos and KL last season?
Really dig the adjustments to the Lannister armour, eg the Black additions
It is a subtle distinction (and one that would be completely lost on Cersei), but what Margaery really was trying to do was turn Tommen to her (Margaery). This need not have been for or against Cersei per se, save that Cersei is the sort of individual who sees everyone as being against her.
Well it is relevant, particularly for Jaime as he would have proof of his brothers innocence which may make him more receptive to any conversation he may have with Tyrion in future. And similarly for Cersei with Sansa/House Stark (albeit less likely as she’s crazy)
We haven’t yet seen Cersei’s reaction to LFs betrayal (unsure we even will) but my point is- this could be the key to LFs downfall. Everyone assumes that it’ll be Sandor revealing LFs betrayal of Ned in S1, but I’ve never bought that as it’d be expecting the audience to remember that far back. The fact TBWOB
reduces that possibility further.
All that’s needed is one raven from the Red Keep to Winterfell explaining LFs mission to take Sansa’s head. Although the show missed the boat already on that front as Brienne could easily have been told by Jaime in S6.
innocence,
Maybe. However I think Cersei is pretty rogue at this point. In no way is she supposed to even be on the throne right now. Her kids weren’t supposed to die as well but here we are. I could see where all she cares about is stamping out any detractors and taking revenge on her prior enemies regardless if she has anymore viable progeny to continue the family reign.
Wimsey,
Margaret was trying to turn Tommen against Cersei. She even tried to get him to send her to Casterly Rock, by implying there was nothing left for her (Cersei) in KL ( I don’t remember her exact words here) and that she would be better off at CR.
If that is the route that they go, then they will remind the audience in the “previously on” GoT part. They have gone back to scenes from the first season more than once.
That written, LF’s final fate will come down to one of the primary protagonists, and most probably Sansa: she is, after all, the lead character for whom LF has been the a foil most often. Given the nature of the story, we can bet that it will be a situation where both embracing and killing LF will seem “right” at the time for completely different reasons. We saw that last year: Sansa’s rejection of LF would have felt “right” because of her anger and also because she didn’t realize that dogs’ loyalties were not blind but dependent upon being treated well; on the other hand, taking his offer would have been a quick and effective way of raising an army that could defeat the Boltons. She later had to eat crow and repeat this choice.
The next two years will be a different story (presumably), so the crux of the dilemma probably will be different. But look for Sansa to choose the less savory of the options: and under a lot of scenarios, that will mean keeping LF alive.
ghost of winterfell,
Again, it is a subtle distinction. Margaery was trying to turn Tommen towards her. Part of turning Tommen towards Margaery meant steering him away from Cersei: but that was to achieve the goal of getting Tommen under Margaery’s thumb. If Cersei had been a different person, then this tactic would not have been part of Margaery’s strategy.
ghost of winterfell,
Margaery is one of my most favorite characters, she did try to do some shaming to Cersei, but Cersei’s madness is above that. She brought HS and everything
Jaime on the other hand doesn’t own anything to Olenna, he tried to help her grandchildren.
I imagine that in his mind Sansa killing Joffrey was justified because Joffrey was a mad man who made her suffer.
What he has to face now is learning that the Mad King’s daughter is coming back with his borther who killed their father, the women who poisoned his daughter in front of him and killed their own family aligned with Olenna who just learned that killed his son combined with a bunch of foreigners who attack his home.
Of course it’s his right to fight them.
I lean towards Sansa ultimately being the cause of LF’s downfall. Aside from Sandor Clegane heading in her direction, LF made a critical mistake in 610 (that I will get to in a moment). Sansa overlooked LF’s involvement in the deaths of Joffrey and Lysa because it suited her, and because LF’s actions ultimately benefited her; Joffrey’s death got her out of KL and Lysa’s prevented Sansa from being thrown out the Moon Door. She will not overlook involvement in the betrayal and death of her father in the same way. Sandor Clegane has always been truthful to Sansa – sometimes brutally so – and she said herself in 209 that she knew he would not harm her. She knows he was the one that Cersei sent to fetch her in 108, and therefore he has some knowledge of the events in the throne room.
As for the mistake LF made in 610 – he told Sansa what he wanted, giving her power over him. In 404, on the ship to the Vale, LF told Sansa that knowing what a person wants tells you who they are and allows you to move them (as a piece on the board); in telling Sansa what he wants, LF has given her the power to manipulate and move him. I think she will try and use him to her own advantage in season seven (in spite of the fact that in 610 he was clearly still trying to manipulate her by playing on her feelings regarding Jon and WF) but I think that ultimately Sansa will be the cause of LF’s downfall.
Ah, but we should not assume LF’s downfall must happen. This is not a “good” vs. “evil” story, and LF is far from “evil,” anyway. I think that the only things on which we can count is that: 1) LF’s fate will depend heavily on the decisions of one of the main characters; and, 2) whichever decision that main character makes will be derided by some as “stupid” or “unrealistic,” etc., because the derider would have made the other choice. GRRM loves to put his characters through multiple Kobayashi Maru tests, after all!
Query: Is Littlefinger’s involvement in the conspiracy against Ned Stark really that much of a secret? He held a dagger to Ned’s throat in front of a throne room filled with people.
ghost of winterfell,
It is a power struggle, yes, but there are two scenes that completely back up my impressions:
1) A talk between Cersei and Twyn: Cersei is basically complaining that Twyn never shares information with her, that she is the only of his children that listens to him. One of her complaints to him is that the ” whore of HG” is influencing Joffrey. “Good” Tywin says…he goes on to exlplain that influencing a husband is EXACTLY what a wife should do. Hinting that Cersei failed in doing so to Robert, but that he would only respect Margeary to suceed.
2) Olenna and Twyn are discussing the wedding. Olenna says that ” The Oaf Lord of HG” was intent in getting their Margeary the queenship.
There are plenty of mentions of how Mace was very happy about playing second fiddle to Twyn along the way.
Also, Cersei threatened to KILL Margeary just because she commented on the weddings that would make them ” sisters”.
No, the taking of HG is not fair game, sorry. The Tyrells died precisley because they were playing the game by its rules; Cersei just came out of nowhere and changed the rules TWICE to bring an end to the same Alliance who kept her sons in the Throne : she gave the power to the HIgh Sparrow and framed Margeary, and , when Margeary simply outdone her, she killed THOUSANDS…
You see, the Tyrells would have stayed in this Alliance had Twyn lived, because he knew better. Once he was gone, Cersei did everything to take them out, YES, just because she was a jealous mother, who could not bring herself to let their children grew out of her influence sphere.
Wimsey,
Sansa seems to be his weak spot. He already revealed his goal which was a mistake to her and now she has the upper hand ultimately. So somehow she’ll be able to expose him because don’t think LF is there in season 8. It seems like we might shift from political players to supertnatural element. How does he fit into this? Also, LF needs to pay for his betrayl of Ned Stark. He’s at his castle, with his daughter.
ghost of winterfell,
Which new wife would want the psychotic Mother in Law to hang around the house ALL THE TIME?
I know I would not…
Alba Stark,
Wimsey,
I honestly think LF is toast at the end of this season. He has no part in the Great War to come and I agree his shelf life has been extended somewhat in order to cause some more mischief next season (he should really have been taken out at end of last season IMO).
His death has been very heavily foreshadowed in his scene with Ollena- where she threatens to blow the whistle if she is in any way under threat- and she now has nothing to lose
I’m predicting that’s exactly what’ll happen next season if/when LEAK INFO
As I said- Sandors knowledge is fairly inconsequential in all of that- recent events concerning LF are way more relevant to his downfall.
Inga,
Be sure of one thing: Randyl Tarly will try a power grab and alliance with the Lanisters. He will die a traitor´s death for that.
I never could quite figure out why people think no one but Sandor knows this. Sure, many were killed, but many weren’t, and not all stay loyal. Heck, Sandor didn’t, and he was the first to draw his sword.
Mind you, I also think it would be at least mildly hypocritical for Sansa to be calling out anyone for betraying Ned, but people pick what suits them. ?
What is that smell? Who dragged that dead horse in here?
Wimsey,
That is a good question. What if instead of Cersei, Tommen’s mother had been a decent, but ambitious woman who wanted a say in her son’s affairs. How would Margaery have dealt with her?
Maggie,
Oh I am not defending Cersei. She is the mad queen, she herself is responsible for whatever has befallen her and her children. And I love Margaery, she is one of my favorites too. My point was that the Tyrells were not just some innocent victims of the Lannisters and that they willingly chose to play the game.
Agree with what you say about Jaime.
I don’t care for her, but I wouldn’t call her a dead horse. ☺
The resolution of the Walkers vs. R’hllor vs. humanity will be very political, and it will echo the resolutions of the war for Westeros. In particular, the art of compromise, and when the needs of the few (or even the one) equal those of the many will be key issues.
This is not that kind of story. GRRM’s universe is not one with any sort of Instant Karma: bad deeds will go unpunished. In the end, it probably will depend on whether Sansa recognizes that LF’s potential for future “bad deeds” is more use to her than is killing him or leaving him to die, or something like that.
And why should we be certain of that? I would think it much more probable that he will bide his time and side with Daeny once she returns.
How does that foreshadow LF’s death? And to whom does Olenna blow a whistle? Daeny certainly is not going to care that LF helped euthanize Joffery, and she probably will be indifferent to LF’s actions in Ned Stark’s downfall given her antipathy towards the Starks. Cersei will learn eventually that LF played her badly in order to take Winterfell (even if it did not turn out as LF obviously hoped!).
Margaery would have been the gracious and grateful daughter-in-law who would have used flattery and hints to convince this alternate mother-in-law that Margaery’s schemes were actually the mother-in-law’s schemes! Or, who knows: they might simply have wound up with common agendas and simply gotten along like a church on fire. Oh, wait: bad phrase….
Fixed it for you.
Wimsey,
Okay, here is the deal with Tarly being NOT on Team Dany:
From what we know from the leaks, Tarly will die by Dragonfire. Again, Lady Olenna is on Dany´s side; if tarly would be following his Liege, why would he die a traitor´s death? Dany is very, very sensitive to treason, and she often emplyes the ” burning the general” as a tactic.
Therefore, knowing Tarly is supposed to not be in very good terms with the Tyrells, and knowing that he dies like a traitor, by Dany´s hand, I feel he betrays Lady Olenna, gets into an alliance of the Lannisters and pays with his life.
Wimsey,
I just want to write that I really enjoy reading your take on future events as well as the people who inhabit the world of ice and fire. You seem to have a deep understanding of who these people are and from there you can speculate about their future choices.
Believe me, I so wish you were right but sadly nothing we’ve seen in the past season or S7 leaks really supports this. GoT used to be grounded, severe and complex, yes, absolutely.
But that seems to’ve gone out the window with its monumental success and popularity; as sickening as it is, the show now absolutely does and will resort to pandering and correcting injustices.
It just seems the story isn’t what it claimed it was and I guess that’s precisely why so many of us feel cheated and are taking the shift so personally.
Littlefinger is a sociopath who has deliberately started a war that brought about the deaths of many thousands of people purely for his own advancement. He’s murdered benefactors and people who trusted him, is a sexual predator (as well as a sex trafficker), and on and on the indictment goes. He is evil. I don’t see how that’s even arguable; what exactly makes him not evil?
GRRM is not a nihilist or otherwise amoral (as his own political pronouncements in the real world show), and his stories aren’t either. Doing good is not easy (either in discerning it or executing it), nor always rewarding for the people doing it, but as he himself said, his heroes are the people who try to make the world a better place — some succeed, some fail, most have a mixture of the two. Littlefinger is not one of those people.
That wouldn’t undermine him at all, seeing as he clearly didn’t do it. Indeed, that he manipulated the Lannisters to let him take the Vale Army north is probably already known.
He really doesn’t. He’s already betrayed Cersei; she’d have no reason to trust him. Moreover, what precisely would he gain by doing this? He’d ruin his standing in both the North and the Vale, and be left with nothing. The arrangement he struck with Cersei was never anything more than a means to postpone his breach with her; it would never have allowed him to actually rule the North, which Cersei didn’t understand, or else she’d have been more suspicious of it.
Thronetender,
Not sure why Knights don’t get paid. Someone would have to explain that. But the Lannister army is not small, probably the second biggest stand alone army in Westeros (behind Tyrell’s) so they could be on the verge as the biggest. The show doesn’t mention it but the books do a good job explaining about new Lannister armies being trained since Robb Stark kept whipping them. The Lannisters are continuously training soldiers.
D&D have already said that the Night King is a ruthless murder machine with no choice in what he’s doing. I don’t see that a compromise is in the offing there.
Pigeon,
I wasn’t referring to Sansa.
I’m going to go with Tim Bentinck as the extra/actor
Kosten,
Wah,wah,wah,the show is’t going the way i wanted to go in my head so it’s not as cool anymore . Anyway when you judge a show based on some leaks your opinion is not worth taking seriously .
I never understood the argument that a truce would have to be worked out with the Night’s King. How would that work out? We send babies your way every month a la Craster and you don’t destroy the rest of humanity.
The Night’s King is the physical embodiment of Death, he was created for the sole purpose of eliminating the human thread to the Children. His existence is unnatural, his continued existence disrupts the natural order of things. Whatever will be required of Team Life, they will have to destroy him, because he was never meant to be in the first place. Death comes for everyone, because your old or sick or get murder. That’ll happen anyway, having an additional source of death that consumes humanity is disruptive to the cycle of life, in fact it may very well eliminate it all together.
So, yeah, I don’t think it’s about compromise its about restoring order. Because restoring order won’t stop people from being selfish or from killing each other or from just being people. It’s not going to make everything shiny and pretty. When everything is said and done our heroes will have to contend with a world that has been ravished by war and an ice apocalypse. A bleak but hopeful future.
Oh, you meant the Sansa/Sandor BS that’s floating around again after a lovely break. I agree! ?
Why do you feel that’s more probable of Randyll? Even before reading any ‘leak’ stuff I thought his allegiance decision was a 50-50 proposition at best when speaking about the show version. After the season when considering allies Cersei could buy, if she were to get any, Randyll always came up first for me on a list of likeliness. Just for starters he’s been set up as not a very nice person, or a show’s bad guy. He’s sexist, racist, despises weakness and he places great importance on his legacy and being an important man, not unlike Tywin. He hates wildlings and sees them as no better than animals. So now there is an old lady sitting in his Lord’s seat who is supporting a little girl bringing an army of barbarian foreigners into his country. To him he may see things as falling apart and Cersei at the moment appears to be in the strongest position and able to promise him more than anyone else, for the time being.
Book version he’s currently sitting on Tommen’s small council, so while still a bannerman of House Tyrell he’s in a more important position for the crown. Who knows what book Cersei will do compared to show Cersei but he’s right there for her to ‘claim’ if the situation becomes similar.
innocence,
LEAK DISCUSSION
First of all, an illegitimate child born out of wedlock wouldn’t be a heir. If real history is any use in this case, there were quite a few regnant queens/empresses who allegedly had children out of wedlock but everything was concealed and historians still argue about these things. And in Cersei’s case there’s all that twincest thing. If she could marry Euron and pass the child as his, that could be a solution, but I don’t see Euron signing on such a deal, and I can’t see Jaime agreeing on it too.
Secondly, Cersey is obsessed with prophesy and has no intention to challenge it: we saw that in Ep 601. So, even if she gets pregnant, she will expect the worst and think that her child won’t live anyway. And let’s face it girls: pregnancy is not the thing that “feels good” (and giving birth – even less so). Many women fall into depression or at least feel band during these nine months. Of course, for most of us children come as a mayor payoff for all these sufferings, but what if no payoff is expected? As I have written already, Cersei found little joy in her maternity; she loved her children but she always felt like that love was forced on her, and all of her children ended up betraying her (at least in her own understanding). So, she might think that, even if she gave birth successfully, her child would betray her again. So, all in all motherhood doesn’t feel good for Cersei: not any more, especially if she decides that Jaime will use that child to control her (and Jaime certainly will, because for him Cerei’s pregnancy would be the only reason not to choke her right in Ep 701).
And finally, if Jaime indeed leaves her disgusted and goes North to fight against the WW (again he might be doing that having his unborn child in mind), Cersei might make an abortion to avenge Jaime’s “betrayal” . She might also decide to go after Euron to Iron Islands or call him back to KL or make shit some other way, but one way or another a child would become an obstacle on her path of vengeance. So, I lean towards abortion, rather than miscarriage, but on the other hand who knows how D&D are going to play it: miscarriage can also be an option.
Hi Inga ? I feel like what you may not be taking into account is that Cersei doesn’t care about what people think anymore. She’s like a honey badger…just don’t give a f***. She blew up the Sept ffs lol! She already told Tywin, Jaime has been open about it with Edmure and they have both said they don’t care what people think anymore…they actually had that conversation. She also changed her name back to Lannister so no matter what that’s what it would be…and she doesn’t care if that isn’t how it works. She told one of her kids somewhere along the way that when he was king the truth would be what he made it. I feel like if the spoiler is real that Cersei would be happy that she could finally have a baby with her brother (gulp!!) out in the open. The Targaryens did it and it was the faith that had the biggest issue…a large chunk of them were just removed from the picture. I can see your argument but that is one thing I think should be factored in….her lack of giving a single fuck lol!
Inga,
LEAK DISCUSSION
Most people, including me, were expecting her to be a mad queen, bring terror for everybody, maybe kill one or two major characters and killed by valonqar in season 7. But instead, she deals with pregnancy and ex-boyfriend, new boyfriend issues, and then she is dumped and miscarries (or has an abortion, it doesn’t change much) like desperate housewives 🙂 Her storyline seems so boring and useless. Apparently they saved exciting stuff for the final season.
I would prefer something more exciting at least for the finale, instead of a miscarriage drama for Cersei…like Arya wearing a different face stabbing her in the belly for example, if she is pregnant. Miscarriage…abortion…boring drama.
moiaf,
The theories about the series ending with some kind of negotiated settlement predate the revelation of the Night King and his origin on the show (there’s a whole bunch of speculation about whether the show’s backstory for the White Walkers really lines up with GRRM’s past statements about them, but for the purposes of discussing the show, that’s neither here nor there). So in that context, I understand the speculation. But the showrunners have now been very explicit that the Night King doesn’t have a choice in what he’s doing and that they don’t really see him as a character at all, he’s just a “force of destruction”. That really should rule out the notion that this is going to end with the two sides sitting down to hash things out. It’s a war of annihilation.
Kosten,
Getting justice for those who wronged them has been the stark them since last season, so I kinda expected Sansa would off Baelish in the future.
However, that does not appear to be the cast for everyone in upcoming season. The Tyrell dont get revenge against Cersei, Daenerys doesn’t against Jamie etc
Speaking of Jamie, the more he sticks by Cersei’s side after what she did is the more I see him as a hypocrite. Hopefully, there is more to it.
And if the spoilers about Cersei are true, then good. I’d hate for her to become a one dimensional villain like Ramsey or Joffrey or night king.
LOL we can always count on you to get to the pith of the argument and set things straight. I agree with you. Littlefinger is evil. Nor is he at all troubled by ideas of honor or heroism. He was quite proud to declare to Ned that he had purposely warned Ned not to trust him. His talents are exquisitely tuned to his own survival.
I disagree with those that feel he will meet his end this season; I will also be very leery if he is shown having second thoughts when things get really rough and turning into some sort of hero. No, imho, I don’t think he will die. His antenna will alert him to imminent danger. He will disappear and reemerge from beneath some rock when the snows melt, ready to con the other survivors of whatever goods they might possess.
Wimsey,
Not sure if it will boil down to political aspect in the Other vs Humans in the show. It might go straight to who kills who. Who survives and what cost, as we talked about it. Characters might not die, but deal and learn with consequenmces of their actions and this fight.
The Others within show story are described as simply death. No chance of reasoning, you don’t argue with death. death comes and takes everyone or plans to. Night King wants everyone dead or as slavs. On the other hand we have people who fought against slavers as Dany and her team and someone who fought him as slaver meaning Jon. Night King is basically a slaver with his wights.
Ned’s betrayal might not be main motive or main reason for his downfall but it will contribute to it. LF can reap what he sow in season 1 by this betrayal. He hurt House Stark a lot, including selling Sansa to the Boltons. Also Weiss and Benioff are not George RR Martin., Show and story road are different.
Off topic, and I’m sure most have you have seen it already, but the Mountain and Septa Unella’s sodastream commercial is pretty great.
Wimsey,
I’ve very clearly explained it in my post. You just need to lift the spoiler code if you want the answer.
In the original Targaryen invasion the Lannisters and House Gardener(Lords of the Reach) were defeated and the Gardener forces were wiped out by dragonfire. I think this will mirror that with the Lannisters and the new Lords of the Reach House Tarley being defeated by Dany’s forces and dragonfire takes out the Tarleys.
Well if they kill Lady Olenna they are no longer favorite knights its not like I ever liked them.
Technical question, now that Jamie is the head of house Lannister, IF he were to desert, why wouldn’t he take the Lannister forces with him? Aren’t they supposed to obey him, regardless the Queen orders? I mean, every time a house has gone against the crown, their soldiers werent like “hey, no! We are not going against the King/Queen”, why would he go North alone?
I don’t know how to hide my comment about the spoilers, can someone help?
Arya Serious,
High Arya Serious.
[Leak discussion]
Ellie,
There is an instruction before the comment section: you write [xspoiler] in the beginning of your post and [x/spoiler] at the end just without x.
As for the rest of the speculations on the leak
You do realize posts tend to be more effective without all that petulance, right?
Anyway,things didn’t necessarily go the way I wanted them to in the first five seasons either yet it didn’t bother me because it was still good writing. So you see, I don’t mind it not going my way, I mind it being condescending and pandering.
Not that I really need you to take me seriously or anything but I did make it clear I was basing my opinion on the entirety of season 6 as well as the S7 leaks.
Might as well start linking this regularly:
https://www.inverse.com/article/17718-game-of-thrones-season-6-worst-george-r-r-martin-predictable-controversy
And I’m far from an isolated case. Sure, you may be in the majority but when art and taste is concerned that hardly speaks in your favour.
innocence,
Leak discussion
Well, it’s a matter of taste I guess, so I won’t argue. I just try to explain my point, OK? First of all, I don’t see any major characters Cersei could kill: Jon would be repetitive (at least until the end of S8), Dany would be a Shaggydog story, Brann and the Stark girls will be out of her reach. I was thinking of Jaime and/or Tyrion but it seams that the gods (showrunners) still have plans for them for S8. And killing nameless extras in hundreds or in thousands would be neither new, nor that much exciting: we have seen that before, and besides that Cersei has no chance against the Night King in the killing contest. So who is left there for Cersei to kill if not her own unborn child?
And one way or another her team will kill Olenna, Sand Snakes, and a bunch of extras anyway + some more deaths in the North may be caused by Cersei indirectly. So, what else do you need to satisfy you lust for blood on TV screen? Cersei’s death would be the most satisfactory (I agree), but one thing we have to learn with this show is patience.
As for Arya I have an ever strengthening feeling that Arya is already dead and that it’s the faceless (wo)man using her identity for purposes which are yet to be seen. I would be happy to be wrong but after what Maise Williams said about re-reading the scripts and admitting the great writing, though not favorable for her character… well, once again I would be happy to be wrong.
Ellie,
Inga,
LEAK DISCUSSION
Inga’s explanation may or may not be true, the leaker never said those. It was discussed a lot, but none of the explanations satisfied me, so far. Army going first, then Jaime doesn’t make sense to me (besides, the leaker never said Cersei sends the army, he said Cersei says that she lied and won’t send the army, I think). Maybe riding alone part was wrong, the leaker may not be accurate with everything…although I think it may lead to a more interesting storyline if he rides alone, he will probably catch Brienne on the road (in the last book they rode together somewhere in Riverrun, leaving the army behind and nobody heard about them for a long time; since this didn’t happen in Riverrun in the show, it can happen now).
And Brienne’s presence in KL in the finale doesn’t make much sense, according to leaker she will be in the Dragonpit but the leaker didn’t seem to know anything else about it. He didn’t mention anything about what Brienne will do in KL. She just goes to south, and is present in the Dragonpit, that’s all he said. He didn’t even mention her riding to north again, I think he didn’t know these details, because he didn’t really say anything when he was asked about those details. I think he simply didn’t know why Jaime rides to north alone, either.
As I said, according to me there aren’t any satisfying explanations to these at the moment, those parts are missing.
Greywind,
It was called ” Field of Fire” and we will get a version 2.0.
BTW: I am starting to think that Daenerys will act like Aegon the Conqueror; Tyrion will swindle Casterly Rock out of Jaime without much bloodshed, as Lann the Clever did with the Casterlys, and Bran will somehow mimick the Builder in his role against the Other.
Inga,
LEAK DISCUSSION
Alvaricomg,
LEAK DISCUSSION
Alvaricomg,
LEAK COMMENTS
innocence,
Kosten,
Keep crying please,those tears are delicious to me,also linking some irrelevant articles doesn’t make your opinion more valid,just so you know,i can link you 100 more praising the show,it has nothing to do with the argument at hand and it still makes you look pathetic .
gewa76,
Who, in addition to being the Big Bad in “The Crow,” also plays Old Bill in “Westworld”!
innocence,
Yes, that phrase Arya said “You sent her to kill me” doesn’t line with the FM-Arya theory, but maybe the faceless man (or woman) who assumed Arya’s identity was simply demonstrating how convincingly he/she could play Arya? Or maybe he/she was referring to another event? For instance, the Waif could be the thin man (the insurer) Arya failed to kill in S5… I know, it sounds crazy and it makes me crazy, but the showrunners made everything to demonstrate that the Waif (or whoever was hiding under that identity) was much stronger than Arya: Arya was able to strike aside from time to time but overall the Waif was always better, and then Arya was badly stabbed etc. Something was definitely wrong with that scene and the entire plot, but that wrongness doesn’t look like a lazy writing either.
As for Arya’s story for the next season, it looks rather ambiguous.
For instance, the leaker could not tell what exactly will cause the collapse of the Wall: in Ep 6 it will be still standing and the magic will be still working apparently, but at the end of the next episode it will go down. Why? Something to do with Bran again I guess, but how? Could there be any kind of sabotage/diversion/trap? Who could set that? Not Sansa, which leaves Littlefinger or Arya (if she is not Arya). For instance, she could persuade Bran to look into the past to get more info about Littlefinger and ask for more and more, until the Night King taps on Bran’s vision and grabs him establishing the contact required for the Wall to go down.
OK one more crazy speculation. Time to go to sleep I guess. By to everyone and thank you for a great conversation.
Inga,
My guess is that Jaime will be involved more with Starks than Jon and Daenerys in season 8. Because,
1. I think Jaime has his “good commander” plot in season 7. He engages in some battles and political conflicts and becomes very successful, considering that everybody is against them. He finally wins a battle as a commander that he never won before, as mentioned in his conversation with Walder Frey. So, I doubt that he will continue the same plot in season 8. Maybe he won’t command any armies in season 8, and be just a knight instead.
2. He had two main storylines, first with Cersei and his children in KL, second with Brienne and Starks (Bran, Sansa, Arya). Now if the first is finished, he goes to the second storyline. Unresolved feelings with Brienne, his promise to Catelyn Stark to protect her daughters, and finally the fact that he had crippled Bran. Those are all unresolved issues in his story. Besides, Ned Stark’s sword had been divided into 2, Brienne has Oathkeeper now, and it seems like the second one, Widow’s Wail may go to Jaime after Tommen’s death. I think there is a symbolic meaning in this; Ned’s sword goes to two knights and they will probably be used to protect his children. Brienne already protects Sansa, Arya doesn’t need to be protected, this leaves Bran…the boy Jaime crippled. My guess is that Jaime will probably protect Bran. Overall, it seems like his unfinished business is with Brienne and Starks, and they are all in Winterfell. So, Jaime may go to Winterfell perhaps to protect them, instead of fighting alongside Jon, Daenerys, and their armies, wildlings, Tyrion etc. elsewhere.
Good points! I’d also figured the same about Bran, and had also theorised that in addition to him being responsible for the Wall falling, that he is also responsible for building the Wall with some time/space warging. Bran the builder! ?
Inga,
LEAK DISCUSSION
I don’t wish to bring politics into this, but I am not happy that these GOT actors filmed an ad for Soda Stream considering their company was on Palestinian stolen and occupied land and their Arab laborers are treated horribly. Wish WOTW would not re-tweet or link to these ads of companies facilitated by apartheid and oppression. No matter how cute their GOT ads are.
Shame indeed.
Thanks for restraining yourself from bringing politics into it.
And WOTW didn’t link anything – I did. Heaven forbid.
And thanks for your cool indifference and snark about me mentioning why highlighting this ad could be a problem to some posters.
I noticed the ad was re-tweeted by WOTW on the left side of the website and then you linked to it in the comments section. Hence my response. But go ahead. Enjoy the ad!
When asked to comment on the controversy, Ser Talk To The Hand of House Toland answered, “Just talk to the… well, you know.”
Immediately afterwards, an angry torch-bearing mob broke into Ghost Hill castle and roasted marshmallows and Ser Talk To The Hand.
ง( ͡ʘ ͜ʖ ͡ʘ)ง
watching,
Works for me. 😉
Pigeon,
My work here is done. ▼□▼
Takeshi,
The previously named Canadian actor, Michael Wincott,plays “Old Bill” in Westworld, and played bad guy “Top Dollar” in The Crow.
Pigeon,
Hang in there Pigeon – I’ve got your back on “Shame” and the horse:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q8lcPACNoI
(The 1st 10 seconds of this should be ample proof.)
Inga,
If Arya Stark of Winterfell is “already dead,” then who killed Walder Frey, and why? Also, do you recall where Maisie said that Season 7’s script would be “unfavorable” for her character?
?…..that music, too!!! Too funny. ?
innocence,
LEAK DISCUSSION
As for Jaime, I do agree with you that he will be saving Stark children in S8, but if the Wall goes down, Winterfell will fall under siege of the WW almost immediately, and then Jaime will have to fight them to fulfill his oath. So, there is no contradiction between our visions of his role in S8.
keltia,
As for Arya, if she is indeed a Faceless (Wo)man, she could still kill Walder, partly to strengthen the impression that Arya is indeed Arya (if the FM seek to infiltrate into the Stark family), partly because they promised Arya to help her with her list, when they recruited (or rather to say seduced) her. IMO, the FM play fair, it’s just a matter of the price which may be either high, or DEAR. And life/identity is the dearest price anyone can pay for anything. Arya was not able to give her identity, but she didn’t want to leave the FM either. She wanted to play them, but nobody plays with death, so probably the girl had to pay for that (sort of forfeit), but that didn’t annul the deal and the FM went on with fulfilling their contractual obligations. Besides, I believe that they have a big interest in the end game of the war for dawn, so taking out Walder could have served their interests too.
As for the interviews, I have no time to search for them now, but I admit that I could have misunderstood something.
Inga,
I STRONGLY doubt that Arya is not Arya. All of that talk blossomed from viewers suggesting the idea after “No One” because they didn’t see the kill and everything just haaaas to have a twist I guess. The idea that the waif killed Arya and is wearing her face doesn’t even make sense because the FM don’t cut their own face off. From the description of how the faces are used it also shouldn’t work to wear one over another such as the serving girls face over Arya’s face over a true face. Everything George has ever said about the character of Arya suggests that she’s one of a handful of most important characters. There’s also no indicators as of yet in the published books and sample chapters that she’s in any danger from the FM. The show’s storyline was simply their way of getting her back to Westeros in time for the endgame. They needed to give her a quick reason to want to go home that fit reasonable with the amount of time they have so they made the waif ‘evil’ and made her realize the show’s FM don’t just kill bad people.
I read or watch everything I see of Maisie discussing Arya since it’s my favorite character. I don’t recall seeing anything that suggested an “unfavorable” storyline. I do remember her saying things about how it may be difficult for her to deal with the “darkness” she’s teetering on.
Clob,
From your keyboard to the ears of the old gods and the new. I love Arya too and I want her to have a happy ending or at least a beautiful death (it’s just that the show taught me to prepare myself for the worst and feel happy, when things turn out to be better than expected). But one way or another, I feel like Arya’s business with the FM is not finished yet and that there are some underlying motives behind all that story. We’ll see how it plays out.
Priscila,
We’ll said! Agreed!
Ser Oromis Locke,
You’r Idea Makes sense house Tarly betray the tayrell if the Lansters offered them the Reach so that’s why Danny ambushed them otherwise house Tarly is Tayrell’s banner men like the boltons to the starks