Almodóvar del Río is a Great House’s Castle & Game of Thrones Season 7 SPOILERS!

Andalucía - Almodovar del Río

As filming finished in Seville, Game of Thrones moved to Almodóvar del Río Castle to shoot for a week. We have long wondered which Westerosi stronghold this Cordovan castle may depict, but now that filming has actually begun, we have to wonder no longer: It will be the regional capital of one of the kingdoms… At least! Read below the cut to find out all about what will happen there. WARNING: SPOILERS AHEAD!

Seriously, back up now if you don’t want to know about a major season seven setpiece. There are pictures, and you know what they say: “A picture is worth a thousand words.” In other words: If you scroll down, you won’t be able to just not notice the revelation.

Highgarden as pictured by artist Kay Huang

Highgarden as pictured by artist Kay Huang

As this 8th Century Muslim castle was renovated so much throughout the centuries, it offers architectural styles from many eras and cultures, which was great for the crew (more on that later), but it also meant it was difficult for us to guess what it would become. Courtesy of Cordópolis, we now know, and it fits the theories of many in the community: The scenes at Almodóvar del Río Castle will depict parts of Highgarden, with a conflict taking place inside the walls between Tyrells and the Lannister soldiers.

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In another article, Cordópolis also revealed that a resident of the town is acting as the body double for the esteemed Dianna Rigg, who plays Olenna Tyrell. Weirdly enough, they also report three extras are wearing Stark costumes. We should warn, however, that this wouldn’t be the first time a non-fan site misidentifies an actor or costume. They might have thought the following soldier is a Stark, for example. It’s not clear, but to me it looks like he may merely be a Tyrell officer or one of their bannermen:

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What’s more, one of the pictures shared by the Cordovan site shows a much greater spoiler: A Lannister flag flying over the Tyrell castle’s walls. This may mean that, at some point in the coming war, Highgarden will be taken over by the Lannisters… There is an alternative explanation, however: That Almodóvar is Casterly Rock too!

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Casterly Rock? Well, let’s return to an earlier comment: Why would the castle’s variety of styles be a positive aspect for the crew? Because Almodóvar del Río may not end up being only Highgarden. Jacob Anderson appeared on set, dressed as Grey Worm:

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Why does Grey Worm’s appearance mean that the castle may not just be Highgarden? We have it in pretty good authority that neither Grey Worm nor his Unsullied will be involved in any of the Highgarden scenes. Instead, our sources have told us that the Unsullied Commander will lead his men to assault Casterly Rock.

Three days ago Watchers on the Wall revealed two hitherto unseen major strongholds would make strong appearances in the show —Precisely, Highgarden and Casterly Rock. Today, Cordópolis did not just reveal that Almodóvar del Río will be Highgarden. All their photos along with our previous reports point to it also being Casterly Rock; And to the Tyrell’s home being the castle around which next year’s big land battle revolves: Mounted on a dragon, Daenerys will lead her Dothraki horde in an ambush against Jaime, Bronn and the Lannisters who have just sacked and taken over the nearby castle.

Of course, the battle won’t actually be filmed in the fields of Almodóvar del Río Castle. The 1 month-long, 500 extras & 100 horses-strong shoot begins soon in Malpartida, and Highgarden will be digitally inserted in the background. Considering it all together, today’s revelations mark Highgarden as one of season seven’s major landmarks.

Finally, let’s leave you guys with a bang: We have mentioned Grey Worm, so we will make the most of it and share a little season seven tidbit our sources have told us about. Grey Worm won’t merely be fighting next year: Grey Worm and Missandei’s relationship will go much further than in previous seasons. In fact, there is a sex scene in the works!

350 responses

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    1. lol I mentioned this in the previous thread but I see you guys got this nailed down. ?

      Gotta say I’m struggling to see how ADR can serve as more than one castle- it’s so small. And the courtyard is tiny too- any skirmish there will be just as cramped as the accursed Sand snakes fight in the Water Gardens.

      Although I guess they could use separate shots of the castle gates, battlements as well as interior scenes.

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    2. Get hyped! Season 7 will probably be the most action-packed yet and I love it!

      I don’t know how to feel about Greyworm and Missandei’s sex scene lol.

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    3. Looks more like Tyrell soldier than Stark. But it looks to me like Highgarden and they sacked it. I fear for Unsullied and Grey Worm.

      Sex scene? Well, it’s Game of Thrones.

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    4. I thought you were going to say that GW is going to survive the season…
      That is something I hope you guys can confirm soon

      Who can complain on another sexy scene of beautiful Nathalie Emmanuel

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    5. Omg how? How would a sex scene work between the two?
      I know the show has aged up the character but I still think f Missandei as a 10 year old. A fault on my part.

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    6. HotPinkLipstick,
      Abbie,
      Eduard,

      If you guys think vaginal penetrative sex with a penis is the only sex there is, or the only sex worth taking seriously, you may lack sexual imagination 😛

      Grey Worm may not have a penis, but he has a tongue with which he can do more than speak two languages spartanly. Cunnilingus, man. Cunnilingus.

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    7. I am hyped about the Greyworm and Missandei relationship going to the next level – it’s been a sloooow burn. Hyped for itself, and also because it’ll be delish to sit back and watch the complaining about them taking up precious time which could be devoted to the Starks and the Lannister twins……
      Interesting that the castle can serve as BOTH High Garden and Casterly Rock! It would be cool if Tyrion and GW are in charge of taking over CR, just as Jaime will take HG earlier in the season (I assume).

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    8. HotPinkLipstick,

      I hope we get no Jamie-Cersei sex scene. :/
      So the unsullied attack Casterly rock and I’m assuming they lose because later the lannister attack the Reach and wins. This prompt daenerys to go to the reach.
      Now I’m sure Greyworm is a goner. 🙁

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    9. Sue the Fury:
      HotPinkLipstick,
      You don’t need a penis to have good sex.

      Exactly. I, for one, find it absolutely fantastic if the writers decide to acknowledge that. I can’t count the number of times I’ve been told two women don’t really have sex since there is no penetration (and, by the way, why on earth would there be no penetration just because there are no penises around?). Grey Worm and Missandei clearly do have some sexual tension, I’m sure they are perfectly capable of bringing a LOT of pleasure to each other and I’m really looking forward to seeing a sex scene between two people in love.

      The news of being taken to Casterly Rock and – even more – Highgarden make me giddier than I can explain. I can’t wait to see it and I just really hope they do justice to the lush courtyards and the sheer luxury that I imagine Highgarden embodying. I always imagined it quite large (like on the feliche illustration), I know it’s probably gonna be much smaller, but I hope they at least make it distinctive in terms of wealth and gardens. Anyway, Cordovan looks amazing.

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    10. Luka Nieto,

      Whoa whoa whoa that’s Jon’s territory. Maybe they can share some tips, if they even meet. 😀

      Any news on NI and Arya’s storyline in particular or should we expect some? Like with upcoming piece of news on Jorah. It’s largely quiet when it comes to her arc. Thanks.

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    11. So basically they’ll bang so he won’t

      die a virgin

      Dany will probably be happy for them. ‘You’re not a slave anymore GW, do as you please, go ahead and bang my friend. But if you break her heart I’ll have Drogon burn you to a crisp.’

      No fun for Dany in the works too ? She’s only human and conquering the world is hard work. She needs to let loose a bit too, haha !

      On a more serious note, the castle is perfect for Highgarden, looks just like in the Kay Huang artwork. I think that Stark garb wearing man is just a Tyrell looking at the leather collar and arm chainmail sleeves. This season can’t come any sooner !

      Thanks for the post Luka !

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    12. Luka Nieto: You may lack sexual imagination

      Grey Worm may not have a penis, but he has a tongue with which he can do more than speak two languages spartanly. Cunnilingus, man. Cunnilingus.

      Rather one-sided.

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    13. Irina Stark: On a more serious note, the castle is perfect for Highgarden, looks just like in the Kay Huang artwork.

      Yeah that’s why I choose it for this article! Huang’s depiction of Highgarden is the one that most closely resembles Almodóvar del Río. Most other paintings are based on much fancier and stylized French reinassance castles (Disney/fantasy-style castles, basically). It makes sense, too, because the Tyrells are quite French, and culturally they are more reinassance than Middle Ages. But still, Almodóvar looks pretty good as Highagarden.

      Bard,

      The penis is not the only male erogenous zone either.

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    14. Will there be any main character at Casterly Rock when Greyworm attacks it? It doesn’t look like it as neither Peter Dinklage nor Lena are in Spain at the moment.
      I am a bit confused as to the timeline of these 2 attacks. Does Jaime attack Highgarden after Greyworm attacks CR or the other way round.

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    15. Abbie,

      I agree, if Dany had Casterly Rock after the ambush they wouldn’t have to do the dragonpit scene, and if Jaime had lost Casterly Rock he wouldn’t attack Highgarden.

      So i think Grey Worm attacks Casterly Rock, Jaime wins the battle.
      Jaime then attacks Highgarden, he wins.
      Dany learns everything, that’s why she leaves dragonstone unprepared and ambushes Lannister army.

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    16. I like the sweet moments between Missandei and Grey Worm. I think he will eventually die.
      Tyrell-Lannister-Unsullied and apparently Tarly (later on) action scenes sound cool! I Think Jaime will win and then the ambush.
      So many fight next season 😀

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    17. Seven Hells, please, no more awkward scenes with Missandei and Grey Worm -.-

      So, does this mean there will be a storyline or at least some scenes of Grey Worm and the Unsullied sacking Casterly Rock? I think this is a bit pointless since there are no other characters involved. If Tyrion went with him and Cercei and/or Jaime would be there defending the Rock it would have been a much better plotpoint.

      Or is it possible that Almodóvar is not supposed to be Casterly Rock at all and the sources only made this conclusion after seeing the Lannister flag flying over the walls?

      It would make sense if Almodóvar is High Garden, High Garden is taken over by Jaime, then Jaime leaves and is ambushed by Dany and the Dothraki while Grey Worm and the Unsullied are send to recapture the castle so the Lannisters will lose their control over the Reach immediately.

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    18. I’m laughing at all the confusion over how Grey Worm and Missandei could possibly have sex without a penis involved. Sweet summer children, LOL.

      Jacob Anderson wasn’t in Seville when they were filming the 7×07 dragonpit scene, right? Could he die taking Casterly Rock (the presence of a Grey Worm/Missandei sex scene might hint at that, since God knows no one is allowed to be happy for any length of time on this show)? Is the attack so late in Season 7 that he doesn’t have time to make it back to KL to join up with the other Team Dany members who are involved in that scene?

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    19. Jonsnowed,

      How can anyone possibly be bored by something with so little screentime? If you don’t find it engaging, that’s fine, of course, but come on guys… This relationship has been on the far background of the show since it began; The scenes that involve them are short; And there are never any more than one or two per season, at most. You’ve literally had no time to be bored.

      TheKingWhoCares: I think this is a bit pointless since there are no other characters involved. If Tyrion went with him and Cercei and/or Jaime would be there defending the Rock it would have been a much better plotpoint.

      We didn’t say main characters such as Tyrion wouldn’t be involved. We just haven’t confirmed they will be involved. Big difference.

      M,

      It’s not only sad but a bit offensive to non-hetero, non-cis couples, whose completely legitimate sexual experiences they are erasing by making fun of how Grey Worm and Missandei could possibly have sex.

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    20. Luka Nieto,

      Sue the Fury,

      Uhm…where did I say anything about a penis? Oh wait. I didn’t.

      It’s unsexy sex because it’s Grey Worm and Missandei, two totally boring characters with subpar actors whose only real value is that they are physically attractive.

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    21. Eos: Exactly. I, for one, find it absolutely fantastic if the writers decide to acknowledge that. I can’t count the number of times I’ve been told two women don’t really have sex since there is no penetration (and, by the way, why on earth would there be no penetration just because there are no penises around?). Grey Worm and Missandei clearly do have some sexual tension, I’m sure they are perfectly capable of bringing a LOT of pleasure to each other and I’m really looking forward to seeing a sex scene between two people in love.

      Exactly!!! There are so many instances in this world of relationships based on power and politics that it is refreshing to see two people who hold genuine affection for one another. This relationship has been a bit of a slow builder – sort of like Sam and Gilly – and it will be great character development for Grey Worm (someone programmed to feel nothing) to finally have an intimate scene with Missandei. Variety is the spice of life, and I like the fact that the show gives us a variety of partners and settings. The sex scenes would get a little repetitive if that were not the case. Besides, I think the possibility that the world may soon come to an end could act as an aphrodisiac.

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    22. People reserve such a unique degree of venom for Grey Worm and Missandei that I can’t help but wonder sometimes if it’s a by-product of either a) the romance being strictly a show-thing and not from the books, or b) racism.

      They’re good actors.

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    23. I just thought of a scenario as to why Daenerys doesn’t take any Unsullied to the ambush. What if she gets information that the Lannister army has sacked HighGarden and taken out Olenna? Knowing that Casterly Rock is relatively unguarded, she sends Greyworm there with the Unsullied, and at the same time, she takes the Dothraki to the ambush. GW and the Unsullied may encounter not many Lannisters at CR, but Euron and his IronBorn!

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    24. I suppose the sacking of Highgarden is before the attack on Casterly Rock, since the Spanish article says Highgarden only will appear shortly the first couple of episodes?

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    25. Luka Nieto,

      EXACTLY!

      Every scene with Jacob Anderson is cringe-worthy and Nathalie Emmanuel can only distract us by being gorgeous for so long.

      Glad to see you get it.

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    26. Mell,

      I don’t think the Spanish article mentions something like this, and the attack on highgarden is right before the ambush, if Dany had won everything she wouldn’t need dragonpit.

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    27. HotPinkLipstick,

      I think they are great actor and that most of the animosity towards them come from the fact that their characters are largely not from the books. Of course, they exist in the books, but there Grey Worm is little more than an extra and Missandei is a child. More troublesomely, it comes from the fact that their relationship is atypical. They are not white, the man is a eunuch, both are former slaves. I’m not saying “If you don’t like them you are a racist, sexist, transphobic pig” —Emphatically NOT that. I’m saying that there are underlying issues because of which some people may not find these characters engaging… and I believe it has to do with the characters being too different from them.

      Evidence of this is the constant vitriol and hatred and criticism their relationship receive, which is completely unrepresentative of the miniscule amount of screentime the show actually spends on it. A mere dull, boring or not well acted relationship wouldn’t receive such hatred for no more reason, especially when their scenes are so few and so brief.

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    28. Sue the Fury,

      I tend to think of it as option a because for example something like Sam and gilly who recieve more screentime more than these two doesn’t get such hatred and the next one is they are associated with dany and essos storyline

      It always amazes me how 10 mins of screentime spent between these two over the period of 3 seasons can get such hate ..

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    29. Luka Nieto,

      You really think I’m not a stunningly beautiful black woman? Or even an average looking one?

      Look, this election season has left me as raw and disgusted as pretty much every other person I know and speak to about such things, but I make no assumptions about any of you. And it was my understanding the comments were to be politics free, so imagine my surprise.

      I also think Emilia Clarke is a terrible actress and her scenes with Jacob are like watching a bad high school play. Then again, maybe it’s just because I’m not a stunningly beautiful British brunette.

      My dislike of Grey Worm and Missandei has nothing to do with their book characters. I don’t begrudge them having screen time. They are “fine.” But a sex scene between the two is going to be almost as unsexy as the sex scenes with Jaime and Cersei. (Who are, by the way a white couple with fully intact genitalia.) But maybe that’s because I’m not a blue-eyed blond Danish man either.

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    30. Great stuff all around.I am sure the castles and the action will look great on screen.I love the news about Grey Worm and Missandei.Also I am confused by people who think they can’t have a proper sex scene.As if lol.They can have great sex.I have always loved them.Their story is so sweet and absolutely needed in a show like game of thrones.Thank god the writers gave them a bit more to do and not just be Dany’s former slaves.I have already prepared my tissues in case he dies cause Missandei’s reaction will break my heart.I have the impression this will not be an easy season for Dany but I think it’s a good thing if we get to see a more human side of her.

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    31. Sue the Fury,

      Most GoT fans seem to hate romance either way, I don’t know why. Most people I’ve seen comment on relationships are saying that it’s ‘twihard’ or sappy or cliché or silly or they blame D&D for departing from the books who are all about blood and gore and dramatic stuff. But they forget that GRRM is a romantic at heart and love is the most important thing in the world, and yes, even in the world of ASOIAF and GOT.

      Heck, we have this story now because a long time go in this story, a man loved a woman (R+L) so why get all salty and start insulting the writers for wanting to put some love and positivity out into the world ?

      Have a heart, you cold people.

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    32. Kay,

      I like this idea..
      But This idea makes dany intelligent and I don’t think they are going for that now because they want her to be in a position to lose power and negotiate with cersei ..maybe tyrion will come up with this plan ..

      Having said that she can take KL and still enter a negotiations with cersei because of KL

      On the other hand of GW takes KL he doesn’t need to be around dany or at dragonpit ..so he can survive the season after all..

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    33. HotPinkLipstick:
      Luka Nieto,

      “But a sex scene between the two is going to be almost as unsexy as the sex scenes with Jaime and Cersei

      Speak for yourself. They are two young, wonderful people who have been tormented their entire lives and who are now faced with the possibility to experience a wonderful, powerful thing. Why would it be unsexy ? Their relationship is heart warming and beautiful, I honestly don’t get where you’re coming from.

      To each their own I guess.

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    34. Sue the Fury:
      People reserve such a unique degree of venom for Grey Worm and Missandei that I can’t help but wonder sometimes if it’s a by-product of either a) the romance being strictly a show-thing and not from the books, or b) racism.

      They’re good actors.

      don’t know how anyone could consider love by two people racist, but there we go.
      My wife and I do great lots of time with my friend happily resting.

      On a side note and somewhat tacky, we will find out exactly what Danerys asked about the pillar and the stones.

      Sadly this could be the end of one of them.

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    35. I’m surprised the Unsullied won’t be part of the ambush but I like the strategy of taking Casterly Rock from the Lannisters, which Daario actually suggested in 6×10. I hope the Unsullied are successful and raise the Targaryen flag over CR, just like the Lannisters have raised their flag over Riverrun and now Highgarden. It’s too bad Tywin isn’t alive to see his precious castle come under attack by Aerys’s daughter.

      I’m glad Jacob Anderson is back filming after being MIA for weeks. I still think Grey Worm is a goner this season – probably during the attack on CR – but at least he’ll get laid for the first time in his life before he dies. After no sex scenes in season 6, it’s funny the next one we’ll see is a Missandei/Grey Worm one. And, seriously people, Grey Worm’s still got a tongue and fingers – they can still enjoy themselves.

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    36. dragonbringer:
      Sue the Fury,

      I tend to think of it as option a because for example something like Sam and gilly who recieve more screentime more than these two doesn’t get such hatred and the next one is they are associated with dany and essos storyline

      I agree with Sam and Gilly. They got more screen time but nobody is bitching about it. I find them both cute. But don’t try to bring Dany into that it’s beacuse they’re associated with her.

      Jenny,

      Weiss and Benioff said what could possibly go wrong for Dany? Meaning a lot of it will and there will be some losses. If she only won, it would be boring. But if what we heard is true, then it’s a bit too much, but we’ll see how it plays out on screen. GW and Missandei scene seems like a logical progress for their story and possible conclusion. But I hope Grey Worm can make and he wasn’t at dragonpit just becuse he has Casterly Rock and not because he’s dead or something like that.

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    37. Jenny:

      I have the impression this will not be an easy season for Dany but I think it’s a good thing if we get to see a more human side of her.

      I can’t agree more ! I’m all about that, this is whaf I want to see more of in Dany. More vulnerability, emotional complexion, basically a deeper and more diverse affective dimension.

      I expect Matt Shakman will excel in directing his episode(s) in that regard since he is really good with human interaction.

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    38. dragonbringer,

      Idk. I’ve seen the opposite. Sam and gilly get more hate because they have more screen time and people which people think is pointless. Also they have less supporters than the Greyworm and Missandei paring.

      Just to clarify, I know there are other means of sex.

      super hyped for Highgarden and Casterly R.

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    39. The scenes at Almodóvar del Río Castle will depict parts of Highgarden, with a conflict taking place inside the walls between Tyrells and the Lannister soldiers

      Sue the Fury,

      Could this mean that Cersei has managed to convince Jaime that the Tyrells are responsible for the massacre at The Sept & the death of Tommen??

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    40. I am thrilled at the idea of Daenerys attacking and doing some Lannisters in! Yeah!

      I personally dislike GW and Missandei’s scenes as well, and I would like to be free to judge them by the subpar dialogues and scenes they had to play.
      I am a mixed race woman myself, not to mention an immigrant. I find Nathalie the most beautiful woman in GoT along with Carice Van Houten (tie), but all GW&M scenes were lame. It is all the writer’s fault, in my opinion. Maybe even the director’s. Nothing to do with their skin colour or their hair type (which is the same I have).
      Could we please stop this continuous assuming the worst of everyone and everything, a pattern that has been going on in this fandom for so long? Some people see racism, harassment and every kind of injustice and violence everywhere, and it is really frustrating.

      About the sex scene…I am one of the few here who thinks the alleged leaks might not be what you all think they are, and therefore I am speculating:

      might this sex scene be either the one the leaker saw on a storyboard or partial script, or be the one the piloted leaker wanted us not to interpret correctly, knowing we would have seen what was being filmed on location anyway and we had to be thoroughly mislead in order to keep the real plot a secret?

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    41. Jenny,

      The thing is you don’t have to have her defeated to show her hunan side and emotions

      They had plenty of chance to do that in the past seasons and they didn’t go through with it…

      Geralt of Rivia,

      I also said essos

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    42. Jewel:
      Sue the Fury,

      Most GoT fans seem to hate romance either way, I don’t know why. Most people I’ve seen comment on relationships are saying that it’s ‘twihard’ or sappy or cliché or silly or they blame D&D for departing from the books who are all about blood and gore and dramatic stuff. But they forget that GRRM is a romantic at heart and love is the most important thing in the world, and yes, even in the world of ASOIAF and GOT.

      Heck, we have this story now because a long time go in this story, a man loved a woman (R+L) so why get all salty and start insulting the writers for wanting to put some love and positivity out into the world ?

      Have a heart, you cold people.

      A lot of the hatred for people falling in love in this show is not realistic, civilization, and human emotions don’t end during wars, I would think the two world wars and other wars be proof of that.

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    43. dragonbringer,

      You said Essos and also Dany. I know where you’re going with this. 😉 They like or hate it because of characters and how scenes play out. Btw Sam and Gilly were hated a lot during S2, 3, and 4. Not like they get that much of a screen time, they got more than GW and Missandei.

      In general context these are secondary characters and their scenes do have a meaning, it pushes characters forward. GW and Missandei in particular both slaves, teached not to feel anathing. All of sudden having love is cute and adds to them than just being servants for Dany and act like robots. But you understand that.

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    44. So another leak confirmed then (Lannister vs Tyrell battle ) from the same user that leaked the entire season on reddit weeks ago.You don’t need anymore prove that user was LEGIT with his spoilers.

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    45. Abbie,

      Moreover, why do we need a sex scene between these two characters? I guess I thought with so few episode left they will focus on other things, I guess, though I’m not one of them I realize there are people interested in this couple.

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    46. Acceptance of those different than ourselves should be viewed as a matter of humanity not politics. That is all. I will now look elsewhere for a distraction from our current reality. LOVE

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    47. WOW so the huge battle that Emilia was talking about is going to take 1 month to film.So it’s going to be big as battle of bastards or even BIGGER ?

      Can’t wait !

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    48. Kay:
      I just thought of a scenario as to why Daenerys doesn’t take any Unsullied to the ambush. What if she gets information that the Lannister army has sacked HighGarden and taken out Olenna? Knowing that Casterly Rock is relatively unguarded, she sends Greyworm there with the Unsullied, and at the same time, she takes the Dothraki to the ambush. GW and the Unsullied may encounter not many Lannisters at CR, but Euron and his IronBorn!

      My thoughts exactly. Tyrion would of course think to hit Cersei hard by taking the Rock while she’s not looking.

      This castle is so beautiful! The more I see of Spain, the more I’d like to travel there.

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    49. Jewel: Most GoT fans seem to hate romance either way,

      Are you KIDDING??? 😀 Judging by posts everywhere on the internet, a huge number of GoT fans, especially among book readers, live for the Great Rhaegar-Lyanna Romance of the Ages! If eight seasons of GoT were nothing but R+L somehow making J happen with Howland Reed singing about it in the corner, they would be ecstatic! 😀

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    50. Geralt of Rivia,

      Yeah the moment they said what could go wrong I knew that absolutely everything would lol.

      I know she suffers a few losses but on the other hand she has sex with Jon so that seems like a fair deal to me haha.

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    51. ygritte,

      There will be like 3 minutes at most ffs,it’s not going to take a whole fucking episode,there’s also way less characters now than before so i am glad that they are focusing more on secondary characters .

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    52. Sorry if this has been addressed already, but what happened to the flower-themed helmets from last season for the Tyrells?

      In regards to a scene w/Grey & Missy, I don’t particularly care to waste fluff time with a truncated season. Hell I’m not interested in watching anyone fuck at this point, ESPECIALLY if it’s not an adaption (which how can it be at this point).

      With what is left I would appreciate being as faithful to the source material (what GRRM told them) as possible considering prior cuts.

        Quote  Reply

    53. Ashara D,

      The overall feeling I have is that after Tyrion warns Dany of all the wildfire in KL, they settle for a sort of pincer movementstrategy, taking the little support Cersei has AKA the westerlands.

      It is also my feeling that both ambush and taking of Casterly Rock will reverse the tide in favour of Dany, which will make her decision to leae everything behind and join Jon in the the North even more emblematic. As in her vision, she was close to sit on the Iron Throne, but she chooses not to, and goes further into the Wall.

      By the time the threat is over, so are the Iron Throne and the dragons…

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    54. After rererererewatching episode 9, “Baelor,” I’m wondering if Lady Mormont will ask Jon to give Longclaw back, or at least let her play with it for while?

        Quote  Reply

    55. Eduard:
      Sex scene, let the jokes begin

      Well… Perhaps he still has the pillar, but just missing the stones LOL 😀

      Then again, Grey Worm always was a cunning linguist? After all, He learn’t the ‘common tongue’ !

        Quote  Reply

    56. Jon Snowpenhauer,

      If you think the show from now on it’s going to be all action and not character driven anymore,i think you may have to look for a different show because i for one i’m not interested in any of that . Also like i said it’s not going to take any screentime away for anyone else considering it’s going to be a short scene,these sort of exagerations is what ruins the discussions in the fandom,like how the Sand Snakes ruined the show even though they had less screentime than the Iron Throne and some other examples .

        Quote  Reply

    57. Jenny,

      If leaks turns out ture. Seems like a temporary victory, once Jon learns his parentage don’t think they will have romantic future beyond that. One sex is all you need to concieve a child, if you believe she’s gonna have a child.

      I would be careful with that info on next season. Until we get confirmation or at least that’s how I look at any spoiler from this reddit person. I do understand possibility is high but just in case, not only for Jon and Dany. Which is sounds so unnecessary and cringeworthy. Apocalyptic sex.

        Quote  Reply

    58. Maggie,

      As Luka said, this castle could be standing in for both Casterly Rock and Highgarden. Just because they were both there doesn’t mean that they shot together.

      And Cersei is The Queen and Casterly Rock is her childhood home. Regardless of whether Jamie is the lord there, it is still Cersei’s to lose. Would it make you happier if I’d said …”from Jamie and Cersei as the current ruling family of the Seven Kingdoms?”

        Quote  Reply

    59. I had a feeling that this location might be standing in for two different castles based on the directors list, extras casting, and the fact that Team Dragonstone has left Spain. Nice to have it confirmed! L7R indicated in a previous article that every director except for Alan Taylor had scouted this location. He has yet to make an appearance anywhere in Spain, so if he doesn’t turn up in the old city for any KL filming, it looks like all of the episode 6 scenes will be filmed in NI and Iceland (based on that FB exchange).

      Yeah, Grey Worm’s toast. Thrones is pretty predictable in how they kill off supporting protagonists. This is right up there with, “I’m writing to my mother in Volantis to tell her we’re preggers!” and “Let me tell you how proud I am that you’re my daughter before I roast you alive.” I recall Sam/Gilly getting a fair amount of flack for the screentime they took up during seasons 4 and 5, so I’m not sure why they’re being held up as a point of contrast for Grey Worm/Missandei. They were boring people stiff long before G/M started making eyes at each other.

        Quote  Reply

    60. Jon Snowpenhauer,

      Well you see GRRM only told them who is going to have sex and fall in love in the next never to be completed books so the last two seasons will be only people falling in love and having sex.Nothing else.The horror right?!How will we survive without five violent deaths per episode ?

        Quote  Reply

    61. Why is everything labeled as hatred? So what some people find some of the characters boring or their story line not interesting, same was with Sam and Gilly. Yes, we need some romance and love and I don’t get the people who call those things dumb, after all it is part of life and a wonderful part of it among all the bad. But, I cannot condone the fact that the word hate is bandied about so casually these days. It’s offensive to be called a “hater” when there’s no hatred felt in one’s heart.
      Wandering Girl,

      .

        Quote  Reply

    62. Priscila,

      I think an attack of Casterly Rock is the best move. Remember when Robb was winning battles but losing the war. Robb decided the only way to really beat Tywin was by taking Casterly Rock. If taking the Rock was a good move against the great Tywin then it should certainly be a good strategy to take out Jaimie.

        Quote  Reply

    63. ygritte,

      Stop making yourself the victim like people attacked you for being racist,i just explained to you how your argument is dumb without making any type of accusations towards you and you chose to ignore my comment because it doesn’t fit into your agenda .

        Quote  Reply

    64. Ashara D,

      It’s just a castle, they can’t shoot two battles in the same castle, the very same time. They will shoot the one for some hours and then the other…not right together..
      It’s not a studio…but ok Dany has CR, we will see the Targaryen flags there the following days….

      Jaime and not Jamie is a different person than Cersei and i don’t understand why people keep forgeting this..and no Jaime isn’t a King or anything.
      Cersei is Queen and Jaime is fighting the war… he exists as different personality.

        Quote  Reply

    65. Well I’m positive whatever episode the Greyworm/Missandei sex scene is placed in will be viewed as the worst episode of the season. People in this fandom really hate those characters and complain disproportionally about them for any scene they are in.

        Quote  Reply

    66. Look, most of these characters are going to get steamrolled by WW, so they deserve a good fuck before they go.

      Plus, we’ll finally find out if they cut “the pillar or the stones”.

      I think we’ll see the attack on Highgarden first and the one on Casterly Rock we’ll get late in the season. What directors have been spotted on set?

        Quote  Reply

    67. BunBunStark,

      Sure he does but is that where true pleasure lies for a man, in the tongue and fingers? Of course, he will be happy to satisfy Missandei because he’s unselfish that way and truly cares for her, but it’s not going to be be a physical release for him. The again, with those parts removed maybe he doesn’t even feel the need for that.

        Quote  Reply

    68. Geralt of Rivia,

      I couldn’t disagree more apocalyptic sex is the best kind of sex lol.I love people finding warmth in the midst of disaster and I am glad that their encounter will bring the human heart in conflict with itself that is so dear to George.I don’t want the show to just be a transformers movie in the last seasons.You can consider the spoilers as you like but he has not been wrong yet And the Jon/Dany thing is the safest bet in all of them.I didn’t need the leaker to confirm that to me I was just unsure of the timeline.

        Quote  Reply

    69. Sarah,

      Yes, they do. It’s a sad thing for me to read about as well. Some great/tough characters in the Tyrell family. Now they’re possibly being wiped out.

        Quote  Reply

    70. Jewel,

      “…the writers for wanting to put some love and positivity out into the world…”

      I’m sure that Grey Worm will die after they have sex and become happy and hopeful for like a day or two, and Missandei will be devastated and suffer for years…so I’m not sure if the writers ever put love in this story with that intention 🙂

      I think one of the reasons why some people avoid investing in romantic plots in this story is that all love stories end tragically here and people just don’t expect any lovers to be happy anymore…They know that one of them will probably die if they become truly happy for like 3 minutes.

        Quote  Reply

    71. looool this is glorious.

      and why was that not mentioned in the leak, it’s like super important lmao maybe it’s not Jonerys but Missworm who do it on a boat in the finale. The dude did confuse the names on a number of occasions.

        Quote  Reply

    72. Stannisisdead,

      Who are you even? And what argument I made is dumb? I didn’t make an argument Lol. Made a few comments but I did not see your name involved.

      And nothing is being taken personally thank you 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    73. damn, Lads was all about fluff and romance and googly eyes and sex in his leak instead of actual big plot developments as if he was getting off on it but this slipped through the cracks? tsk

        Quote  Reply

    74. Catspaw Assassin,

      Longclaw belongs to Jon. Jeor gave it to him and Jon has made good use of it (more than other characters to whom people think Longclaw should belong to). Same with Oathkeeper being Brienne’s. I don’t see people screaming at Brienne to give back Oathkeeper to Sansa or whatever.

      Sean C.,

      Jaime was booted from the KG, so wouldn’t he be Lord of Casterly Rock now? Primogeniture and all.

        Quote  Reply

    75. Sue the Fury,

      I agree with you on both accounts. I think their love story is cute. That said, a sex scene between these two is something I don’t want to watch as I don’t find them sexy. They are both beautiful, but there’s a difference between beautiful and sexy/erotic. Missandei and Greyworm, to me, are both the former but not the latter. Maybe it’s because neither of them has a dark side – they seem simply too clean or pure for truly good sex. I’m afraid that to me it’ll look more like the innocent fumbling of kids, and I don’t want to watch that.

        Quote  Reply

    76. Great article, Luka.

      By the way, we can assume that both battles (Highgarden and Casterly Rock) will take place between episodes 1-5. Podeswa, Mylod and Shakman visited Almodovar del Rio but not Alan Taylor, so we can rule out episode 6. And I doubt these battles fit in episode 7 since most known characters are at the dragonpit by then.

      Maybe it goes something like this:

      EP. 1 – Euron assaults Ellaria and Tyene; Euron wins
      EP. 2 – Yara fights Euron; Euron wins
      EP. 3 – Jaime attacks Highgarden with Tarly army; Jaime wins
      EP. 4 – Lannisters ambushed by Dany; Dany wins
      EP. 5 – Unsullied attack Casterly Rock and are surprised by Euron; Euron wins

      This last defeat could prompt Dany to retreat to Dragonstone and listen to Jon’s advice. She would have lost the Tyrells, the Martells AND her Unsullied.

        Quote  Reply

    77. Jenny,

      The only decent love story on the show is the one between Brienne and Jamie and that’s because it’s so well acted. Instead of gratuitous sex scenes, you have two actors of such good quality they are able to convey their feelings and longings through visual acuity and exceptional acting. It’s no accident Dany gets naked and sexual so often, it hides the fact that she’s not a very strong actress. Maybe if a better actress had the role I’d feel differently but she’s such a disappointment after her characterization in the books.

        Quote  Reply

    78. Jenny,

      As if. I’d love to see how daenerys would find time to indulge in any sexual desires next season.

      Greyworm and Missandei sex at least have build up, and is obviously being used as emotionality factor for his possible death.

        Quote  Reply

    79. Flayed Potatoes,

      Cersei inherited Casterly Rock on Tywin’s death, when Jaime was barred from inheriting. Even if he did regain his inheritance rights after being booted from the Kingsguard, there’s nothing to inherit, as it already passed to Cersei. The transaction already closed, so to speak.

      Maggie,

      “Lord” is a form of address for a superior; that’s why Tyrion, for instance, is frequently called “Lord Tyrion”, even though he isn’t lord of anything.

        Quote  Reply

    80. Sue the Fury,

      Well personally I think it’s a bloody fab piece of news. Awww, those two are so cute on screen together. I’ve found their developing relationship adorable. The actors really nail it. If they kill one of them off afterwards, I’ll be bawling! ?

        Quote  Reply

    81. Instead, our sources have told us that the Unsullied Commander will lead his men to assault Casterly Rock.
      I’m curious as to whom will be guiding them across the continent. It would have to be someone who knows the area – Dany can’t just point him west and say go find Casterly Rock. Granted that the Unsullied are trained and hardened soldiers, but still, they are totally out of their element. The Westerosi countryside and people are nothing like what they are used to in Essos.

      At any rate, I’m glad GW doesn’t get killed in those first skirmishes that were reported, and goes on to some kind of happiness. I figure that the sex scene will be just before he leaves for Casterly.: a sweet goodbye time with Missandei. I’ve said before and I will say again, I don’t mind seeing a loving relationship on this show. (as long as it doesn’t take too much time.) A show full of only rape and pillaging would get boring, too.

        Quote  Reply

    82. Flayed Potatoes,

      You’re right of course, but I’m hoping there will be a scene in which Lady Lyanna and Jon discuss it and her uncle, mostly because there just can’t be too many scenes featuring the Lady of Bear Island. 😉

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    83. So I guess they won’t even attempt to show us Casterly Rock as it is described in the books, where it’s a fortress carved into a massive coastal headland – something like the Rock of Gibraltar. I for one find that disappointing. Oh well.

      And if Tyrion isn’t going to be part of the assault/infiltration there, why did they bother including the story about him being appointed supervisor of its drainage systems by Tywin?

        Quote  Reply

    84. Aemon: EP. 1 – Euron assaults Ellaria and Tyene; Euron wins
      EP. 2 – Yara fights Euron; Euron wins
      EP. 3 – Jaime attacks Highgarden with Tarly army; Jaime wins
      EP. 4 – Lannisters ambushed by Dany; Dany wins
      EP. 5 – Unsullied attack Casterly Rock and are surprised by Euron; Euron wins

      Ep. 5, don’t understand how if the Lannisters lose all their forces in Ep. 4 they can even defend Casterly Rock?
      Ep. 1 Curious that Euron would have enough ground forces to go against Dorne, but the Dorne fleet is with Dany.
      Don’t see how Dany’s fleet can land at KL with Euron still around.
      And in all of this , if Drogon can make mincemeat of the Slaver fleet in 5 min. a bigger Drogon ought to make anyone surrender without a fight!

        Quote  Reply

    85. LMAO all the uproar over the Missandei & Grey Worm sex scene, and just watch it be a tame little scene where all we see is shirtless GW going down on Missandei (a la Jon/Ygritte) as the scene fades to black. With the ice apocalypse bearing down on Westeros, I think everyone should get in as much sex as possible. I think the dragonpit scene should just be one big orgy.

      I really like Kay’s idea about Grey Worm and the Unsullied encountering Euron at Casterly Rock. Even though I suspect the CR battle will be the end of GW, I think a Euron/Ironborn vs. Grey Worm/Unsullied fight would be pretty damn awesome.

      ygritte:
      BunBunStark,

      Sure he does but is that where true pleasure lies for a man, in the tongue and fingers? Of course, he will be happy to satisfy Missandei because he’s unselfish that way and truly cares for her, but it’s not going to be be a physical release for him. The again, with those parts removed maybe he doesn’t even feel the need for that.

      Yeah, I think Missandei will derive more pleasure than Grey Worm, however, he does still have a prostate, soooo….

        Quote  Reply

    86. Kathy,

      I disagree, I don’t think her naked scenes are compensating for anything, that would make Carice a terrible actress and she’s amazing. Emilia was amazing in Me Before you and in Dom Hemingway, the problem is the character itself. Dany is so serious and dramatic all the time, it’s hard to portray a character that displays so little emotion. Which is why what Jenny is so true – we need to see more of her, more emotional depth and complexity, layers of who she really is inside. In the books we always see what she’s actually thinking (a lot !) while on screen we don’t see nearly as much as we should. Jaime and Brienne’s relationship is wonderful, but we haven’t seen Jon and Dany interact yet. Kit and Emilia have outstanding chemistry and they had something going on off screen romantically a few years back, I’m sure it’ll be very interesting to watch them together on screen.

      Abbie,

      I think we will solely because she hasn’t been happy and romantically fulfilled for sooo long she’s almost lost that part of herself, that came across extremely vividly in ep 10. This is how we met Dany in the very first episode, sold to marry a man against her will and being denied a chance to true love. They have to approach that side of her again and if they don’t, it would be a missed opportunity.

        Quote  Reply

    87. Firannion: And if Tyrion isn’t going to be part of the assault/infiltration there, why did they bother including the story about him being appointed supervisor of its drainage systems by Tywin?

      Even if Tyrion isn’t part of the assault, his intricate knowledge of CR and of the drainage system should be crucial to the planning process. And the story he tells also emphasizes how little regard Tywin had for his youngest child; he thought him good for nothing more than dealing with human waste.

        Quote  Reply

    88. So, if I’m keeping up here, no shooting location has been identified as the site for exteriors of Oldtown – is that correct, mods? I am beginning to lose hope that the Citadel subplot with Marwyn will play any significant role in what’s left of the story.

        Quote  Reply

    89. Geralt of Rivia: Whoa whoa whoa that’s Jon’s territory. Maybe they can share some tips,

      Oh, god. You know they will.

      Jon: In the North, we call it the Lord’s Kiss.
      Grey Worm: But I’m not a Lord.
      Jon: Then bend the knee.

      Daenerys: lt is said that lrogenia of Lys could finish a man with nothing but her eyes.
      Missandei: Well, she sounds like an interesting woman. l don’t think that Grey Worm will like it with me on top.
      Daenerys: You will make him like it. Are you a slave? Then don’t make love like a slave.

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    90. Pretty sure Euron wins sandsnakes + yara by Ep2- Jaime sacks Highgarden episode 4..
      in between Dany meets Jon.
      Tyrion advises against attacking Kl.
      Dany leads her troops ambushing Jaime- expect a new Ring of Fire while Jon is wight hunting.
      By the time Jaime artives at Kl, greyworm took the Rock.
      Now here itmakes sense for Tyrion to meet Jaime-how could he expect to convince the winning side to give in?
      Cersei would also only agree to even meet Daby and Jon if she is losing.
      Plus: Dany leaving direction North dramatically MUST be a choice, she should be close to victory at this point. A very hard won victory, but nevertheless, the leaks only make sense if both Dany and Jon are willing to sacrifice everything to save the world and the last episode we have to see all the major players walking away from Kl- leaving the game of thrones behind.

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    91. Firannion,

      Almodovar del Rio will stand for:

      Highgarden, Casterly Rock, Sunspear, Citadel and possibly Euron´s ship Silence!

      DnD have to make do with the budget, because they are paying 500k/episode to their top 5 actors.

        Quote  Reply

    92. Ashara D,

      This castle is so beautiful! The more I see of Spain, the more I’d like to travel there.

      You really should, and if you like the castles you’re going to love the food. 😉

        Quote  Reply

    93. Sean C.,

      Cersei became the Lady of Casterly Rock, because Jaime had lost his rights when he became a Kingsguard and Tyrion lost his rights when he killed his father. They weren’t calling her as Lady simply because she had a bigger title-queen, she was “your grace”.

      So Casterly Rock was definitely Cersei’s until Jaime was dismissed from the Kingsguard. I first guessed that it’s still Cersei’s because I thought Jaime can’t re-inherit it even if he is not a Kingsguard anymore, unless Cersei is dead. But I just checked Game of Thrones Wikia page and it says that “With Jaime’s dismissal from the Kingsguard, it is possible that he will inherit his father’s titles and positions, thus becoming the new Lord of the Rock ahead of his sister Cersei.”

      “http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Lord_of_Casterly_Rock

      And in the show, Lannister soldiers were indeed calling him as “my lord” in Riverrun; he is not the Lord Commander of Kingsguard anymore, so “my lord” can only mean Lord of Casterly Rock…the soldiers would call him “Ser Jaime” as a sign of superiority, not “my lord” : “In ASOIAF/GoT, the male children of great lords are given the courtesy title of ‘lord’ as well, UNLESS they hold another title (such as ‘ser’)”. And also: “Anybody serving on the Small Council is given the title ‘Lord’ ” So Tyrion was called as Lord because he wasn’t a knight and he was a small council member. These don’t apply to Jaime.

      So I think the situation is open to argument but it seems like in the show Casterly Rock may be his now…perhaps men automatically take the titles back from women in charge if they can re-inherit. But of course, the throne wasn’t Cersei’s either but she took it anyway, so if she says “Casterly Rock is mine” that’s probably the end of discussion even if it’s lawfully Jaime’s now.

      I’m not sure what will happen in the books; according to Wikia, actually Lord Commander of the Kingsguard can’t even be dismissed: “Unlike several other offices on the Small Council the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard cannot be lawfully dismissed, or at least not totally dismissed from the Kingsguard, because their vows are taken for life. Theoretically a king might appoint one of the other six Kingsguard members as the new Lord Commander to replace him, but it is unknown if this has ever happened.” So I think Tommen’s action to dismiss Jaime was the first time this ever happened.

      But Jon became the King in the North as a bastard now, and Cersei just took the throne like that by force, so I think people just don’t care about these laws anymore. Anything can happen.

        Quote  Reply

    94. Maggie,

      They are not shooting a battle in the castle, as I explained. A sacking, or the aftermath of it, probably, but not a battle.

      Aemon: EP. 1 – Euron assaults Ellaria and Tyene; Euron wins
      EP. 2 – Yara fights Euron; Euron wins

      Euron won’t attack anyone in the first episode. And I imagine that, when he does, it will be against the Greyjoys and Dornish at the same time.

      Firannion: So I guess they won’t even attempt to show us Casterly Rock as it is described in the books, where it’s a fortress carved into a massive coastal headland – something like the Rock of Gibraltar. I for one find that disappointing. Oh well.

      You do understand these locations are only used for specific rooms and areas, right? The outer appearance of Casterly Rock will be fully CGI, as literally every castle has been in the show, whether they use a real castle as a location or not.

        Quote  Reply

    95. Sue the Fury,

      I think there is a reason why neither of them have been nominated for any prizes when we’re talking acting.

      As for penis less sex, sure, often the best sex between two people of any gender is done without a penis in play. That being said, Greyworm losing his genitalia as a child would mean that he should be practically devoid of sexual drive whatsoever (he also ought to look at bit more like Varys in real life, but hey this is fantasy and GRRM’s world, and let’s say he’s got his prostrate still.)

      I’m fine with sending off Greyworm with a bang, though.

        Quote  Reply

    96. Firannion:
      So, if I’m keeping up here, no shooting location has been identified as the site for exteriors of Oldtown – is that correct, mods? I am beginning to lose hope that the Citadel subplot with Marwyn will play any significant role in what’s left of the story.

      Even if there is a large Oldtown subplot, why would it need any street locations? It’s all focused on the Citadel, which will all be interior locations.

        Quote  Reply

    97. innocence,

      The GOT Wiki is fan-written.

      Barristan Selmy didn’t become Lord of Harvest Hall on being dismissed from the Kingsguard, even though he was the heir prior to joining. The show has been muddy on the issue of who owns the Rock, but Jaime is only ever referred to as the person commanding the Lannister armies; if he was Lord of the Rock, it would be simpler to call him that.

      he is not the Lord Commander of Kingsguard anymore, so “my lord” can only mean Lord of Casterly Rock…the soldiers would call him “Ser Jaime” as a sign of superiority, not “my lord” : “In ASOIAF/GoT, the male children of great lords are given the courtesy title of ‘lord’ as well, UNLESS they hold another title (such as ‘ser’)”.

      That’s not true. The Tully soldiers last season all addressed Ser Brynden Tully as “my lord” (hence the rather awkward line “He’s my lord, my lord.”).

      Calling him “Ser Jaime” is something that only people of equal or higher status would do, in my opinion. Common soldiers wouldn’t address him thus, it would be presumptuous.

      singedbylife:
      I think there is a reason why neither of them have been nominated for any prizes when we’re talking acting.

      People their roles are tiny, one imagines.

        Quote  Reply

    98. On a side note, can you please make sure to upload the S6 audio commentaries somewhere please? Because I don’t really have a reason to buy the boxset apart from that, and I’m broke af so I’d rather ask something more useful for xmas. By that I mean the illustrated version of AGoT.

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    99. Lisa: On a side note, can you please make sure to upload the S6 audio commentaries somewhere please?

      No. Of course we won’t. That would be blatant copyright infringement. There is absolutely no wiggle room for interpretation there.

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    100. elay,

      I didn’t necessarily say romance, but sth went on. You don’t just kiss someone if there’s nothing between you. That Rolling Stone shoot ? Even the photographer said, and I quote “Love was in the air”
      Nevertheless, that’s not the case anymore, out of respect for Rose, but they’ve always wanted to film together and I’m sure they’ll make the most of it and give us some brilliant moments on screen. They seemed to have had a wonderful time filming together in Bilbao !

        Quote  Reply

    101. Jon & Daenerys story has been paralleled and foreshadowed since page 1 in the books.
      Jon & Dany romance happening is because the writer of the books has laid the groundwork for it in 5 BOOKS.

      How can anyone still deny that it’s still happening lmao.Probably those Jonsa fans.

        Quote  Reply

    102. Luka Nieto,

      I understand, but i still find it hard that two seperate crews would shoot two scenes with many extras at the very same time in the same castle…. and to be honest, i can’t imagine they will visit CR without any Lannister there, and since Grey Worm wasn’t in Dragonpit…
      I can’t imagine Dany wants the Lannisters to work with her,but keeps their home.

      I also find it really hard that this after the ambush since Tyrion goes to KL just after the ambush.
      I think this battle fits into the “great general Jaime” spoiler before the ambush.

        Quote  Reply

    103. Maggie,

      How much preparation does one need with a monstrously large dragon and a Dothraki horde? I’m thinking perhaps his death is why she burns Lord Randyl. She promised that whomever hurt one of hers again “they will die screaming” i.e. “Fire and Blood” Episode 110.

        Quote  Reply

    104. Maggie,

      Honestly it’s all a bit of a mess right now. Hopefully by the end of filming in a week we’ll know more about what is being filmed here exactly.

      Rygritte,

      White Rat was in it for the cuddles, with the prostitute (Stalwart Shield in the books).

        Quote  Reply

    105. Priscila,

      I agree, it would be a last minute, difficult decision to make on her part especially, being so close to what she’s always wanted but letting it go to go fight the WW alongside Jon, just like in the Vision and the House of the Undying when she left the Throne and then appeared at the wall in a snow storm. It makes perfect sense !
      I can’t wait to see her face when she sees the Wall for the first time !
      Unless of course ..

      it crumbles during her travel to the North

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    106. I love the idea of dipping into the Missandei-GW relationship a bit more. I mean, they’ve been hovering around it for a long time and they have or are becoming a big part of Daenerys’ council so giving them an arc of their own seems sensible. I do agree that it could have a sad ending though. I think Missandei is great, especially with Dany, so I’ve been happy that they’ve raised her presence onscreen as opposed to just being a background character. I think it’s a good addition to the story showing them rising from an expected life of slavery to positions of importance and achieving/attaining things they once would never have dreamed of.

      Personally I think they need the relationships and romance in the story. Otherwise it all becomes a bit whitewashed, sterile. You need to have personal connections and heart behind all the fighting and talk of general talk of dangers.

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    107. Emma,

      I know right ?
      They’re just in denial at this point. It’s like the five stages of grief and the first one is acceptance but in this case it’s the five stages of two young, gorgeous individuals falling in love with each other and banging before the apocalypse.

      Like, how could you not love that sh*t ? It’s beyond me.

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    108. Emma,

      The biggest anti-J/D constituency, in my experience, is people who think it’s too cliche. There’s a sizeable number of fans who make that sort of assertion about almost any sort of conventional narrative resolution, I think in great part because the idea that ASOIAF is a gigantic subversion of narrative tropes has become an easy talking point about it (while being largely untrue). For instance, the sorts of people who quote that “if you think this has a happy ending” line anytime an ending that isn’t pure nihilism is suggested.

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    109. Clob,

      That’s so true. It would turn into a Michael Bay style disaster of epic proportion. That won’t happen though. Dan & David are too smart for that.

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    110. Is there any evidence which would tell us whether or not Greyworm’s assault on Casterly Rock will be successful? I’m curious because there’s speculation in either direction in the comments.

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    111. Sean C.,

      So true ! That’s so silly though. The books have been out for 20 years. Readers have had the time to literally turn this story on every side and consider every twist and turn and every possible ending. Thinking that anything that isn’t shocking should be considered sub-par and shouldn’t be affiliated with the show is the main reason why GRRM said he doesn’t let his fans influence his writing, because if they’d make correct assumptions he’d be tempted to switch the narrative up just to surprise them and that would make the story lose all of it’s charm. He needs to do what feels right for his books, and so do D&D for the show. It’s just like George said,

      ‘Art is not a democracy.’

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    112. Sue the Fury:
      People reserve such a unique degree of venom for Grey Worm and Missandei that I can’t help but wonder sometimes if it’s a by-product of either a) the romance being strictly a show-thing and not from the books, or b) racism.

      THIS.

      They’re good actors.

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    113. aeris:
      L7R says something different about Almodovar and Trujillo. So where’s the truth?

      Los Siete Reinos is speculating, just as we are, and we said so. When we have something 100% concrete, we’ll report on it as such.

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    114. In response to commentors who believe GOT fans aren’t romantic, I disagree. I think it depends on what a person believes real romance is. I think GRRM is a romantic but based on what I have read or seen (credible sources) of his work on asoiaf or got, he writes true lasting love as the type of love that grows over time as opposed to passion, infatuation, lust that we can experience during times of uncertainty. He uses rob stark’s relationship with his wife as a love that develops during a period of uncertainty. We shall never know if it actually would last after the wars ended. Cat is trying to teach Rob by using her own marriage to eddard as an example of what deep, mature love is and how it grows over time. Jaime and brieene , Sam and Gilly missendai and grey worm are other examples. Then he shows us the all consuming destructive Cersei and Jamie relationship and how toxic that is. If anyone brings up dany’s marriage to Drogo and how they fell in love in a few episodes, it actually took quite some time and they were constantly together since she was already married to him from the start. So I can’t see it as an example of all consuming as it really wasnt. That also took some time.

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    115. Sean C.,

      “To force Lord Brynden’s surrender, Walder orders them to take Lord Edmure, the rightful Lord of Riverrun, with them as hostage. Acting as de-facto Lord of Riverrun, Brynden rejects the Freys’ demands and calls their bluff when Black Walder fails to carry out his threat to execute his nephew Edmure.”

      They were calling him as “Lord”, because he acted as the Lord of Riverrun when Edmure was a hostage. When Edmure was released and entered the castle, the soldiers told to Blackfish that Edmure is back so they take orders from Edmure again.

      And about Barristan Selmy, “Barristan is the only known member of House Selmy, a minor house that serves House Baratheon”. So, probably House Selmy is dead, Barristan could be the Lord again if he wanted, there is probably nobody else anyway, I think he simply didn’t want it.

      As I said, my opinion is that it’s open to argument, we don’t know if Casterly Rock is Cersei’s or Jaime’s yet, it can be played either way…I don’t even think these laws are important anymore, it’s all about support and/or power now. It could be Cersei’s or Jaime’s depending on support and/or power.

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    116. Firannion,

      I am beginning to lose hope that the Citadel subplot with Marwyn will play any significant role in what’s left of the story.

      I imagine that subplot would mostly be filmed in the studio.

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    117. Irina Stark,

      We know nothing about “falling in love” at this point, though. As far as we know they didn’t even meet yet (neither in the show nor in the books); there is no written material about them; according to set spoilers they meet but we have nothing more; and the leaker on reddit didn’t say anything about falling in love.

      The leaker was asked if they love each other and he said he doesn’t know if it’s love, he only knows that they have sex in the finale. They don’t have to be in love to have sex, so we don’t know if one or both of them will fall in love with each other.

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    118. Maggie,

      What i think that the attack on CR will happen first but got defeated by Jaime and his men and then Jaime will try to hit back by sacking HG which is one of Dany’s allies ..These 2 defeats make Dany’s mad and ambushing the lannisters army on his way back

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    119. Emma,

      I am no Jonsa shipper, but I am not one of those who believes there will be a Jon and Dany romance either. I simply think the parallels traced between Jon and Daenerys are all magic/esoteric (related to their role in the esoteric and eschatological events we are going to see). I also think they have nothing in common as human beings, as souls, and their temperaments are not compatible, therefore their romance would sound terribly forced to me.

      I was convinced they would end up together in the beginning, and I was also very thrilled about it, because I thought those two would grow up to have something in common, meaning other than esoteric stuff…then I was disappointed nothing of the sort popped up and “moved on”.

      I don’t want to say I am absolutely sure things are as I analyse them; I just would like to show other fans that we all have different ways of looking at things and of interpreting texts and scenes.

      Besides, in the books and in the show there are a few complicated relationships where the two characters involved truly have some kind of feelings for each other. It would be terrible writing if these relationships were to be left aside, forgotten, to begin a completely new one from scratch. I am not going to mention whose relationships I mean in order not to wake up ship wars and/or certain hot issues that usually bring up flames. However, I suppose those with good reading skills should understand whom I am talking about. (“reading skills” applied not only to written texts but also to dialogues and scenes of the show).

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    120. I am not sure we can determine who is winning from a Dragon Pit meeting.
      Cersei could be backed into a corner and this is a parlay. They could be at an impasse.

      A lot of things could be happening.

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    121. Irina Stark,

      Ahem, in the books Jon is not gorgeous! Book!Daenerys, on the other hand, is impossibly gorgeous, something almost from another world (whereas Emilia Clarke is beautiful, indeed, but overrated, especially when compared to other women on the show who are really playing in a different league).

      Just pointing out things… 🙂

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    122. Bran’s built-in White Walker GPS,

      Oh my God, you parallel my views exactly! This is the first post I have ever read on here that mirrors my views and it is so refreshing for me. I mean no disrespect for other view points since we all have the same right to predict future events. I am not promoting Jonsa (whatever that is exactly) nor am I a fan of Jonaerys (not sure of spelling. ) For all I care Jon can end up a monk. I didnt pick up the books for shipping but I am a fan of romance. I just have my own interpretation of what romance is. But my journey through these books followed your thinking word for word, from start to finish. Again I love the way you are interpreting the context. If what I predict doesnt happen, I am ok with it. It is when people get dogmatic it can be frustrating for me.

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    123. Luka Nieto,

      So Almodovar standing-in for both Highgarden and Casterly Rock is just speculation? What about Trujillo castle? L7R claims it’s where most of Highgarden filming will take place. There’s also mention of HG having only a brief appearance unless google translator is completely off.

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    124. Asoiaf fan,

      Wow, for the first time today I found not just one but two readers appreciating my more logical and almost academic way of analysing things. I am so happy now!

      Unfortunately, we are still a minority.

      In the end, the only thing I care for is that I get quality, show-wise and book-wise. If something happens, whatever it is, it has to be well-written, well-acted, well-done.

      Even if it is a pre-apocalyptic orgy. Actually, I prefer gang bangs, but…well, an orgy will do fine as long as there is quality 😉 (quantity is already included as per definition…)

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    125. I know Jon and Daenerys are going to get together at some point. The text are obvious about it. I actually laughed out loud when Jon saw Val in the moon light; hair turned silver and skin paled and he thought it was the most beautiful thing. not so subtle George.

      I don’t watch for romance but I am more welcoming if it drives plot and character development.

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    126. aeris:
      So Almodovar standing-in for both Highgarden and Casterly Rock is just speculation?

      I wouldn’t want to call into question your reading comprehension, but you could just read the article above instead of asking all these questions… because all of them are answered in the report. So I’ll just copy & paste it:

      What’s more, one of the pictures shared by the Cordovan site shows a much greater spoiler: A Lannister flag flying over the Tyrell castle’s walls. This may mean that, at some point in the coming war, Highgarden will be taken over by the Lannisters… There is an alternative explanation, however: That Almodóvar is Casterly Rock too!

      Casterly Rock? Well, let’s return to an earlier comment: Why would the castle’s variety of styles be a positive aspect for the crew? Because Almodóvar del Río may not end up being only Highgarden. Jacob Anderson appeared on set, dressed as Grey Worm:

      Why does Grey Worm’s appearance mean that the castle may not just be Highgarden? We have it in pretty good authority that neither Grey Worm nor his Unsullied will be involved in any of the Highgarden scenes. Instead, our sources have told us that the Unsullied Commander will lead his men to assault Casterly Rock.

      That’s the “theory” I devised with the available evidence. If our sources are right and Grey Worm is NOT at Highgarden, but instead leads an attack to Casterly Rock, the likely explanation is that Casterly Rock is also being filmed at Almodóvar. There are other possibilities, such as the sources being wrong (perhaps the info is outdated), but the most obvious explanation seems to be the one I suggested. Which I clearly suggested as a hypothesis, not a fact.

      aeris: What about Trujillo castle? L7R claims it’s where most of Highgarden filming will take place.

      They are speculating that, perhaps, the extended Trujillo shoot may mean that some of what was going to be filmed at Almodóvar is going to be filmed at Trujillo instead. It’s speculation, and they present it as such.

      aeris:There’s also mention of HG having only a brief appearance unless google translator is completely off.

      Yes, as we have repeatedly reported, Highgarden will appear relatively briefly. It will not be a main location throughout the whole season on the level of King’s Landing, Winterfell or Dragonstone. But a major setpiece, perhaps the largest of the season, revolves around Highgarden, and that’s just after another action sequence, the sack. Highgarden’s appearance will be brief (though more than one episode, which L7R has sometimes suggested) but important.

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    127. Bran’s built-in White Walker GPS,

      Yes we are in the minority but that is ok. Like I just wrote, I am not insistent that things will happen the way I interpreted them to happen. As long as it is quality work and it fits with the existing story, I am happy. I guess this is where I start to pull away from sites when I come across very insistent, dogmatic “it’s my way or the highway” opinions. As long as the future events fit with the context of what was written so far, I will be satisfied. If we are narrow minded in our views, and too insistent that our foreshadowing is the right one, then if we are mistaken we will be devestated. Grrm shows us what happens when we follow prophesy too literally so I will take his advise.

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    128. Bran’s built-in White Walker GPS:
      I am thrilled at the idea of Daenerys attacking and doing some Lannisters in! Yeah!

      I personally dislike GW and Missandei’s scenes as well, and I would like to be free to judge them by the subpar dialogues and scenes they had to play.
      I am a mixed race woman myself, not to mention an immigrant. I find Nathalie the most beautiful woman in GoT along with Carice Van Houten (tie), but all GW&M scenes were lame. It is all the writer’s fault, in my opinion. Maybe even the director’s. Nothing to do with their skin colour or their hair type (which is the same I have).
      Could we please stop this continuous assuming the worst of everyone and everything, a pattern that has been going on in this fandom for so long? Some people see racism, harassment and every kind of injustice and violence everywhere, and it is really frustrating.

      About the sex scene…I am one of the few here who thinks the alleged leaks might not be what you all think they are, and therefore I am speculating:

      Thanks goodness for an intelligent, non-arm-flailing viewpoint!!!! ?

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    129. Bran’s built-in White Walker GPS,

      Eh, I would point out that Jon’s attractiveness in the books has never been quantified one way or the other. People read way too much into negative space (like the logical fallacy of equating not mentioning a plot spoiler with denying that it happens), but not rating Jon’s hotness in the books seems like more of a storytelling choice to set up the eventual reveal that he really gets his looks from mum, not Ned. Lyanna and Brandon Stark both looked like Ned, and they were considered very attractive. Arya looks like Jon, and people have increasingly been referring to her as a pretty girl as she matures. The fact that no one comment on 14-year-old Jon’s attractiveness does not mean that 17-year-old Jon hasn’t matured into a looker in his own right. Every female who’s come into contact with him since he first ventured north of the Wall certainly seems to think so. Not that it matters either way, since Jon’s and Dany’s show counterparts are predominantly considered hot as fuck by the audience.

      As for romance between them, I think everyone is entitled to their opinion on how well-suited they are to one another, but that won’t change the reality of where the narrative is headed. Last year’s off season taught me that viewers have very wide-ranging definitions of what constitutes plausible deniability, though.

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    130. Abbie,

      To me, a romantic yet unfortunately adult woman, this sounds terribly stupid, for example. I would never come to appreciate a “romance” based on a teenager drooling over a silver-haired, pale-skinned woman, because I have been there, done that twenty years ago) and to me it is simply a sign of someone being a teenager. Not romance, nor love.
      One might argue that the unsophisticated teenager approach to relationships is “sweet”, but whoever tasted the real thing (that usually comes with many different layers and a good ration of sophistication) knows better than that and has better notions than that.
      As I said before, where would love come from in jxd? What would make their relationship work? They have nothing in common as far as their temperament goes, they were raised on two different continents and in completely different cultures. And they are not what in our real and modern world is called “cosmopolitan”. Daenerys might have tried to become more cosmopolitan, but…well, if she managed to accomplish it is up to you. Jon? The man is Northern, there is no denying, and that thing that “opposites are attracted” only works in physics, believe me.
      I will not even begin to describe how different they are as far as their temperament goes.
      Not to mention that, well, Daenerys would be physically attracted to book!Jon for…what reasons? He looks quite plain. Not ugly, not handsome, just plain.
      Kit is gorgeous, book!Jon is not.

      I said it before…I used to believe in this romance and I waited for true signs of a compatibility to appear, then, disappointed, moved on.

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    131. Luka Nieto,

      In any case, a eunuch is a male who has had his testicles removed. There’s nothing to suggest that his penis is gone too. Unless I’m mis-remembering something. The question is, what point are they trying to make, or what event are they foreshadowing, by bringing up the fact that eunuchs still have penises.

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    132. Asoiaf fan,

      Every time somebody asks me if I have predictions about the endgame, I honestly answer that I do not know.
      I truly don’t know.

      The only thing I might try to predict is that Sam is going to survive and write a history book. It looks like that, or at least I got this feeling.

      All my other comments are rather a “there is also another way of reading things, and it is not even that unfunded, because I noticed this and this and this” than anything else. I feel “oppressed” by the majority always trying to take too many things for granted, where there is still so much to discover.

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    133. Donna,
      I like your idea, I’ve been wondering how they’d get around Jaime not abandoning Cersei in disgust after that happened and how she could pin the blame elsewhere? You might have hit on the solution there.

      I can imagine it explaining something else mentioned in the spoilers too.

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    134. Priscila: By the time Jaime artives at Kl, greyworm took the Rock.
      Now here itmakes sense for Tyrion to meet Jaime-how could he expect to convince the winning side to give in?
      Cersei would also only agree to even meet Daby and Jon if she is losing.

      This is a very good point. If Cersei still has control over Casterly Rock AND KL, why would she even agree to parlay at the dragonpit, especially when DRAGONS are involved? The wildfire caches under KL may be the only ace in her hand with which she can negotiate.

      Priscila:
      Plus: Dany leaving direction North dramatically MUST be a choice, she should be close to victory at this point. A very hard won victory, but nevertheless, the leaks only make sense if both Dany and Jon are willing to sacrifice everything to save the world and the last episode we have to see all the major players walking away from Kl- leaving the game of thrones behind.

      Again, good point, character-wise. It’s a far better story if it’s clear choice, than if she is forced by circumstance.

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    135. This has probably been posted a number of times already, apologies if so I’m behind on my comment reading, but just in case it hasn’t there are other deleted S6 scenes on youtube besides the Olenna and Mace one. Castle Black, including extra Ghost, and more from the play in Braavos.

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    136. Priscila,

      “Dany leaving direction North dramatically must be a choice, she should be close to victory at this point. A very hard won victory, but nevertheless, the leaks only make sense if both Dany and Jon are willing to sacrifice everything to save the world and the last episode we have to see all the major players walking away from Kl- leaving the game of thrones behind.”

      Actually, nobody leaves the game of thrones…it’s still the game of thrones, but a new player enters the scene, a new king: the Night’s King. And the Night’s King is more powerful and dangerous than all the other kings and queens, that’s why King in the North, Queen in the South, King of the Iron Islands and Queen of Essos feel like they have to ally against the Night’s King.

      But it seems like Queen in the South and King of the Iron Islands may refuse to fight against the Night’s King, and play a double game…so, these are still political games and throne wars. King in the North and Queen of Essos can decide to fight together against the Night’s King, maybe even marry to create an alliance. They can choose to fight in battlefields, armies against armies; while the other two choose different approaches.

      You only say “to save the world” because you are on Jon and Daenerys’ side, and because you support the living against dead 🙂 But if we take the concepts of good and evil out of the picture, if we become completely objective, white walkers want to transform the world and rule it in a way that fits to themselves…just like others, just like Daenerys. They want different things but they have their reasons too. According to them, maybe Daenerys is evil and her people ruin the world…

      So, I think it’s still throne games; the Night’s King trying to conquer the world, just like Daenerys. I think Daenerys temporarily stops the war against Cersei because there is a stronger and much more dangerous enemy now, so she starts fighting against him now. Even if she is close to victory at that point, it’s not like she gives up on the victory as a sacrifice…just suddenly a new opponent enters the game and she can’t win.

      Jon was never trying to conquer the world or rule everything, so he is just trying to stop the Night’s King, he is a defender.

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    137. Bran’s built-in White Walker GPS,

      Yes I agree. There is quite a bit of foreshadowing and some of it is written in such a way that the meaning of the foreshadowing is up for interpretation. I think I am in the minority here as far a how I am interpreting things. Again it comes down to Martin’s views on prophesy: Do you take it literally, as in there really is a 3 headed dragon (Cersei, Rhaegar, Stannis, Mel, and so on can tell you about chasing prophesy) or can we say, maybe it might mean this instead, or maybe nothing at all. For example, he uses the word “shadow” quite a bit in his books and I think it is kind of interesting how in the HOTUD a man holding a flaming sword who casts no shadow. This is Stannis and when he uses the word “shadow” I think he means the future since Stannis really doesn’t have one. (a future, I mean.) When Mel gave birth to the shadow baby then Stannis lost his shadow (figuratively) his future (literally) Tyrion is a small man who casts a big shadow. I take that to mean Tyrion has a big future. I could be wrong but that is prophesy for you. Other characters might have a changing shadow which could mean an uncertain future, a changing one, or maybe it means some people will meet in the future and it just hasn’t happened yet. Or who really knows except GRRM. Again, it is subject to interpretation. I also feel there is a connection between certain characters in the book based on little clues that are so well hidden and subtle that at first we just don’t notice them. Or, maybe I am seeing things that aren’t there. It is up to the reader. Who are Jon’s parents? That was an easy one that can be figured out in the first book, maybe the second. That is why I also like to take clues and say, hey maybe it could mean one thing but it can also mean something else.

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    138. elybe,

      Right. When the story kicks off Jon’s 14 and by ADWD he’s 17. He’s in that awkward stage. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t grow into his looks. Arya is said to be in the process of it, but girls do mature faster than boys. Jon’s appearance has been vaguely described. And like you said I think it’s on purpose. Just because he’s likened to Ned, doesn’t mean he’s his doppleganger. He’s also likened to Arya who’s likened to Lyanna who was said to be of great Northern beauty. His attractiveness is not touched upon time and again because 98% of the time he’s surrounded by males. Of course they would not wax poetic about such things like another guy’s looks. And not as if they’d pass accurate judgment on it anyway. The rare times he’s in the presence of a woman, he seems to attract them to himself. Alys, Ygritte (who called his face ‘sweet’), Melisandre, Val. He’s a product of a union between beautiful Lyanna and the most gorgeous man to ever walk (according to many characters) Rhaegar, it’d be weird if he weren’t attractive.

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    139. I like Missandei and Grey Worm in their respective roles, but their personal interaction with each other has always been coma inducing boring. I’d rather watch Grey Worm and Theon commiserating or have Missandei interacting with say, Gendry.

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    140. It’s not that I dislike Missandei or Grey Worm, but as the scene with Tyrion proved, they are boring. The remaining episodes of GoT are so precious, I would hate to spend even 30 seconds on their romance let alone “sex scenes”! Nothing but the major characters from now on. IMHO

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    141. GW and Missandei are a cute couple, but I really had assumed that they had already taken their relationship to that level off screen. Last season GW had already recovered from his wounds, and they were trapped in a pyramid. Seemed like the perfect time.

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    142. I can cross grey worm and Missandei going at it off my things I want to happen before the show ends list.
      now if I can only get a Duel involving two Valryrian steel swords, and Arya and jon reuniting. I believe my happiness will be complete ^-^

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    143. Luka Nieto,

      Thank you for pointing out what is much needed. Part of the struggle of any media to is strike a balance between putting a familiar representation on the screen v representing some outside reality. And the reality is that to move forward and acknowledge non hero non cis relationships is to give them the representation that they rightly reflect that reality. That’s what pushes the progress of representation forward, and ultimately expands our own minds.

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    144. Sue the Fury:
      People reserve such a unique degree of venom for Grey Worm and Missandei that I can’t help but wonder sometimes if it’s a by-product of either a) the romance being strictly a show-thing and not from the books, or b) racism.

      They’re good actors.

      This! Grey Worm and Missandei barely take any screen time. They both are still part of the story and important to danny who is a main character.
      I have appreciated their small screen time and thankful the show runners have given them some humanity. Each time I learn something new from their background.

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    145. Emma,

      Parallels doesn’t mean necessarily a romance. Jon and Jaime share parallels but they’re not gonna form a couple. Same as Bran and Dany. Which groundwork exactly?

      Abbie,

      The line about Val is about Val, not Dany. Same as younger, more comely lover is Daario, not Jon. It happened before she met him.

      innocence,

      If they do have a sex at some point in the story, they’re in love. Simple as that.

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    146. Rygritte,

      😀 They might.

      Jewel,

      They have a good chemistry but don’t spread unproven gossip around here that they had something going off screen.

      Jenny,

      He was in some parts. How can one person know detail of facial expression of Jon and Dany and missing key details of plot? Unless he made something up, not whole thing but something. Apocalyptic sex is a good thing as the Wall falls down? Come on, it’s the most cringeworthy scenario they could’ve come up with. Peope are already making fun of it and since it was so important, why to make it this way if leaks are true?

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    147. In the real Middle Ages, due to being dominated by an all-male priesthood, they strictly conceptualized “sex” as “penetrating someone with a penis”. There is literally zero mention of cunnilingus in the 1,000 year span of historical documents from the Middle Ages, compared to mentions of other sex acts. Even to condemn it.

      The result was that they sort of tacitly tolerated female homosexuality, because they didn’t really conceptualize it as “actual sex”.

      I wrote a whole thing about this.

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    148. I’ll be really annoyed if in the actual episodes they actually have the half-strength Lannister army, exhausted from years fighting the Starks, manage to defeat the Tyrells – consistently said to have a bigger and fresh army – and attribute it simply to “wow, Jaime’s a great commander”.

      It might work if they make some effort to explain “Euron attacked the coasts to lure the Tyrell army to defend them, concentrating on Oldtown, but that was just a feignt so Jaime’s numerically inferior army could make a quick thrust at Highgarden itself”. Which sort of fits Euron’s whole “feint one way, attack another” strategy repeatedly used in the novels.

      This still sounds crazy, but I shouldn’t really judge until the final version actually airs.

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    149. Christian Maddock:
      Luka Nieto,

      In any case, a eunuch is a male who has had his testicles removed. There’s nothing to suggest that his penis is gone too. Unless I’m mis-remembering something. The question is, what point are they trying to make, or what event are they foreshadowing, by bringing up the fact that eunuchs still have penises.

      The novels explicitly state that the Unsullied have both testicles and penis shaft removed.

      Moreover, it’s not just that their genitals are removed: removing them from a pre-pubescent child frequently makes any sexual arousal impossible in an adult eunuch, due to hormonal changes in the brain that don’t happen (in contrast, someone castrated as an adult would still have these changes). But on top of that, yeah the TV show didn’t introduce this, but in the books they’ve got the whole thing that the Unsullied drink this “wine of courage” drug daily which gradually dulls all of their physical senses so they can’t feel pain.

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    150. Sue the Fury:
      People reserve such a unique degree of venom for Grey Worm and Missandei that I can’t help but wonder sometimes if it’s a by-product of either a) the romance being strictly a show-thing and not from the books, or b) racism.

      They’re good actors.

      Yeah that always weirded me out, the reaction to it: yeah it isn’t “in the books” but it COULD have been in the books (well, if Missandei was older), just “off-screen”. It wasn’t out of tone with anything from the books, doesn’t really change any major plots, why not show that these people have lives outside of Daenerys herself?

      Were you consciously aware that the Missandei/Grey Worm scenes in episode 4.4 were literally the first time that the TV show ever passed the racial Bechdel test? (Two non-white actors speaking to each other with no white characters around). This is largely due to plot mechanics: Daenerys is white and she’s *the* POV narrator for most of the Essos storylines, so by definition all of the non-white characters around her have to interact with her storyline. TV show didn’t have that limitation.

      I think a lot of it is just due to some sort of cultural fixation about eunuchs; I mean how many times have people *specifically* mocked that Theon got castrated, and not that *Ramsay horrifically flayed him and cut some of his fingers off?*

      Maybe it’s because so many of us were already familiar with that there are eunuch-slaves and such from reading the novels, but for the more general TV crowd having characters mutilated like Grey Worm has been is kind of shocking. I don’t know.

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    151. This is the thing I wrote up on Game of Thrones Wiki about Eunuchs in the Middle Ages and attitudes about sexuality:

      http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Gender_and_Sexuality#Gender_binary_and_patterns_of_gender_behavior

      The short version is this: “Sexuality” is sort of three factors: Sex (biological sex), Gender (day to day behavior, like masculine or feminine), and Orientation (attracted to male bodies, female bodies, both, etc.)

      Modern industrial societies in the 21st century see these three factors as variable in several combinations – they saw them as inherently linked. Medieval people didn’t have a concept of a Cis-Gendered Homosexual Male.

      They literally thought that men behaved “masculinely” because they had a penis, and women behaved effeminately because they did not. And that as a result women had an inherent desire to be penetrated by a penis due to having female bodies, etc. etc. All three were linked.

      Their attitudes about Eunuchs utterly demonstrate this linkage in their minds: they literally thought that because eunuchs had their penises removed (or incapacitated due to at least lack of testicles)….they would automatically start behaving effeminately. Being put into the “feminine sphere” etc.

      You see this in a travel manuscript written by an Arab zoologist in like the 8th century (I think his name was Al-Jahiz), traveling from Syria to the Sultan’s court at Baghdad. The court had a guard of eunuchs – so they could guard the female members of the sultan’s family without having sex with them, etc.

      And this chronicler writes how surprised he was that you would assume the court eunuchs would behave effeminiately, but as career soldiers, they in fact behaved very masculinely. And YET, they still enjoyed passive sex acts like anal sex (given that they were the body parts they had left to use). It’s this major example used in historical analysis of medieval conceptions of gender: that he devoted so much writing to his shock that the three things: biological status, gender behavior, and orientation WERE NOT AT ALL LINKED with these court eunuchs, when he had assumed all three were linked.

      Whole articles written about this, I’m just summarizing.

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    152. Geralt of Rivia,

      If they do have a sex at some point in the story, they’re in love. Simple as that.

      I think you mean “it’s because it would be pointless to make them have sex in terms of the narrative if they are not in love.”

      But no, there can be other reasons to make them have sex in the story even if they are not in love. For example, maybe she will indeed get pregnant as a result, and that’s why the story makes them have sex, to produce a child. They don’t have to be in love to produce a child, or they don’t have to get married because of it either, one of them may simply die in the end but the child lives etc. Or, maybe they have sex just for Jon (or both) to have an internal conflict later in the story, after he learns that she is actually his aunt. They definitely don’t have to be in love to have sex; Daenerys had sex with men whom she didn’t love before, and it has been a long time since Jon had sex and Ygritte died, and Daenerys is a beautiful woman, so…And also many readers/watchers might enjoy it, so why wouldn’t the writers give them a sex scene between those two?

      Besides, even if they love each other it doesn’t mean that the romance will last long. In the story there is a prophecy about Daenerys which says that she will be betrayed by a lover. Jon can turn out to be that lover in the end; if for some reason he chooses not to marry Daenerys, for example. So, even the reason of a romance may be something else, in terms of the narrative.

      I think we should be open to different scenarios.

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    153. Ive noticed someone talking about his ” more academyc and analizyng views ” , that does feel so presumptuous like most of jonerys haters sound . Romance doesn’t need to have something in common to happen in all worlds and anyway jon and dany have not just the exoteric issues in common , maybe your reading skills are not that good . They have a very similar story and worldview having experienced lifetime in different cultures from the westerosi one ( yeah free folk are similar to northerners but not to southener twats) they’ve lost their mother , their love , jonerys fans are not brainless twats , there’s a lot of evidence in both book and show .

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    154. Bran’s built-in White Walker GPS:
      Abbie,

      To me, a romantic yet unfortunately adult woman, this sounds terribly stupid, for example. I would never come to appreciate a “romance” based on a teenager drooling over a silver-haired, pale-skinned woman, because I have been there, done that twenty years ago) and to me it is simply a sign of someone being a teenager. Not romance, nor love.
      One might argue that the unsophisticated teenager approach to relationships is “sweet”, but whoever tasted the real thing (that usually comes with many different layers and a good ration of sophistication) knows better than that and has better notions than that.
      As I said before, where would love come from in jxd? What would make their relationship work? They have nothing in common as far as their temperament goes, they were raised on two different continents and in completely different cultures. And they are not what in our real and modern world is called “cosmopolitan”. Daenerys might have tried to become more cosmopolitan, but…well, if she managed to accomplish it is up to you. Jon? The man is Northern, there is no denying, and that thing that “opposites are attracted” only works in physics, believe me.
      I will not even begin to describe how different they are as far as their temperament goes.
      Not to mention that, well, Daenerys would be physically attracted to book!Jon for…what reasons? He looks quite plain. Not ugly, not handsome, just plain.
      Kit is gorgeous, book!Jon is not.

      I said it before…I used to believe in this romance and I waited for true signs of a compatibility to appear, then, disappointed, moved on.

      I do not quite agree.
      Jon noticing the silver hair and pale skin is not meant to show us the sense of romance in Jon-Dany, it’s just a foreshadowing of how Jon will react to Dany that’s it. Nothing more than that. When he meets her, he will be attracted to her.
      As for Jon’s looks, while he does not have Daario’s flamboyance, there is not a single phrase in the 5 books which mentions that he looks plain.
      Dany’s attraction to Daario is meant to signify her childishness, girlishness. It is something she will get over, it does not mean that she will be attracted to such people all her life. And Jon like I said, has never really been described as plain. In fact, ever since he reached the Wall, every woman he came in contact with, would flirt with him/ get attracted to him – Val/ Ygritte/ Alys, even Shireen blushes when he tries to talk to her.
      As for what will they build their relationship on, while their personalities are very different, there is a lot of similarities in their values. They both have a lot of empathy, a lot of their actions are driven by this. They cannot look at injustice being done without trying to do something about it, even if they have to risk their personal safety to do it. They both appreciate people for what they are, looking past the social rank and status.
      Tyrion in the books describes Dany (to YG) as a saviour first and foremost. That’s how you would describe Jon as well. What I am saying is the same values drive both of them. Both of them are ambitious even though Jon tries to suppress his as much as he can.
      Besides, Jon admires independent women who think for themselves. Dany admires warriors and Jon is one.
      Dany, more than anything else even more than the IT, longs for family. Family is Jon’s weakness as well.
      I think they can find enough common ground to build a relationship on.

      However, I personally don’t think any such relationship will last long, mainly because I think one of the two will die at the end. But if somehow they manage to survive, I can see them fall in love and build a life together.

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    155. Abbie:
      I know Jon and Daenerys are going to get together at some point. The text are obvious about it. I actually laughed out loud when Jon saw Val in the moon light; hair turned silver and skin paled and he thought it was the most beautiful thing. not so subtle George.

      I don’t watch for romance but I am more welcoming if it drives plot and character development.

      You know who else has hair who turn silver in the moonlight?

      Even at a distance, Ser Jaime Lannister was unmistakable. The moonlight had silvered his armor and the gold of his hair, and turned his crimson cloak to black.

      Jaime and Jon is so confirmed.

      I know that the show didn’t gave it any importance, but Jon isn’t a young,healthy man… he is someone who returned from the dead to save the world…

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    156. ghost of winterfell: And Jon like I said, has never really been described as plain. In fact, ever since he reached the Wall, every woman he came in contact with, would flirt with him/ get attracted to him – Val/ Ygritte/ Alys, even Shireen blushes when he tries to talk to her.

      I don’t think book Jon is hot like Jaime or Rhaegar. He has been likened in appearances to Ned and Arya both of whom are described as plain or horse faced. I think what is attractive about Jon is his personality.

      Also, as someone once said:

      Bitches love Lord Commanders. Plus he has an albino direwolf, that’s the Westeros equivalent of rolling up in some awesome limited edition sportscar. And a Valyrian steel sword, which is like having a watch that shoots lasers. Plus he cut Janos Slynt’s head off. He’s like if James Bond killed Hitler.

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    157. Bran’s built-in White Walker GPS,

      As others have said, bookJon is not described as plain. Quentin Martell is described as plain. Jon is described as having the Stark look which here basically means: solemn. Not all Starks were plain looking, Brandon could get it with any woman he liked and Lyanna was described as a beauty, not Cersei level but beauty nonetheless. Jon and Arya are said to look alike and Arya is said to look like Lyanna.

      My interpretation of Jon from the books is that he’s the dark, brooding, mysterious type. The guy who is very attractive to others, exactly because he doesn’t know that he’s attractive. Ygritte pretty much forced herself on him, Alys was very flirty with him and I have the feeling that regal and beautiful Val wouldn’t mind if King Crow ever try to steal her. In the books, I can see Jon acting aloof to Dany’s beauty (he usually never betrays emotions) and Dany getting super intrigued by the hard to get guy. Dany’s a teen, I would be surprised if she didn’t fall for him.

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    158. Rygritte,

      It’s my wishful thinking that they were mostly done with that line of thought I guess. Being one who prefers something left to the imagination, the sex scene I liked best was when Dany mounted Drogo and they made love, yet there wasn’t any nudity at all there 🙂

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    159. Geralt of Rivia,

      What key details of the plot?the key details are the ones he said and have been confirmed.He was mostly answering questions.I guess nobody asked him about grey worm and missandei or if the iron bank makes an appearance lol.They wanted to know about Jon and Dany so he told them.Anyway it’s not a montage.I can’t believe people keep confusing this.They have sex then the next scene is the wall falling.Like Cersei’s coronation and Dany sailing for westeros they have nothing to do with each other just are one next to the other.It’s completely logical considering both are big plot developments that they follow each other.

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    160. Danny,

      I always pictured him as attractive reading the books, especially in comparison to Robb who is described as pale and red haired while Jon is dark with dark eyes, he seems so mysterious and his attractiveness really translates the most to me as a reader from his attitude towards others, even in his first days at the Wall, he’s confident, he’s not afraid to show his strength and defend Sam and undermine Thorne.
      That would get any woman’s fire going and Dany would be blind not to fall head over heels for him.

      ghost of winterfell:
      Besides, Jon admires independent women who think for themselves. Dany admires warriors and Jon is one.
      Dany, more than anything else even more than the IT, longs for family. Family is Jon’s weakness as well.
      I think they can find enough common ground to build a relationship on.

      Definitely, no question about that. They have a load of things in common, they share the same moral values, the same sense of responsability, the same strength in their commitment to protect those around them, their stories are interwoven and beautifully ballanced throughout the story.

      ghost of winterfell:

      However, I personally don’t think any such relationship will last long, mainly because I think one of the two will die at the end.

      Think positive thoughts, nothing but good vibes, all will be well. GRRM won’t kill them just to piss off his fans, he’ll do what feels right for the story and to me, what feels right is that after all the sh*t and struggle they’ve both faced in their lives, is that they survive and find love and comfort in each other. They need to find the one thing they’ve both wanted more than anything – a family and a home.

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    161. SerNoName,

      Arya is described as pretty on at least 2 separate occasions. Once by Lady Smallwood and other by the KM. Arya’s “Mercy” face is supposed to be as pretty as her own. Besides, he also thought she had the potential to be trained with the Braavos courtesans. So she must have some good looks, even though I agree Jon/ Arya are no Jaime/ Cersei.

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    162. BunBunStark,
      With the ice apocalypse bearing down on Westeros, I think everyone should get in as much sex as possible

      Lol. When reading another poster talk about maybe there is an other reasons Jon and Dany have sex other than both falling in love, my first thought was well something could occur that makes them believe saving the world is hopeless, no recourse against the coming apocolypse, might as well enjoy their last days.

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    163. Priscila: Plus: Dany leaving direction North dramatically MUST be a choice, she should be close to victory at this point. A very hard won victory, but nevertheless, the leaks only make sense if both Dany and Jon are willing to sacrifice everything to save the world and the last episode we have to see all the major players walking away from Kl- leaving the game of thrones behind.

      You know , even in the novels, when the story returns to KL it may not even be about a Game of Thrones. After all George does call it A Song of Ice and Fire.
      Game of Thrones may be a shaggy dog story.

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    164. Priscila: DnD have to make do with the budget, because they are paying 500k/episode to their top 5 actors.

      Could be why it’s been floated that S8 will have only 5 episodes.

      (It is still not clear if S8 is 5 or 7 , nothing definitive with start of production of S7.)

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    165. Jenny,

      I totally agree, people forget that David Benioff wrote some incredible love stories so far, the sex scenes in Troy were absolutely brilliant, each and every one of them. He and Dan would never write anything to even remotely resemble a cliché. They’re way too smart for that.

      I’m a little confused about the boat part though, that seems a little uncomfortable, in the ship’s cabin maybe ? I don’t really care for the Wall falling part, I don’t think it will have anything to do with their sex scene. But no montage though, that’s stupid. I could go along with some snow falling outside at tops, that’d be kinda cute, but pls no montage.

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    166. ygritte: It’s my wishful thinking that they were mostly done with that line of thought I guess. Being one who prefers something left to the imagination, the sex scene I liked best was when Dany mounted Drogo and they made love, yet there wasn’t any nudity at all there ?

      Hmmm it this irony? I remember nudity in those scenes.

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    167. The Dragon Demands: I’ll be really annoyed if in the actual episodes they actually have the half-strength Lannister army, exhausted from years fighting the Starks, manage to defeat the Tyrells – consistently said to have a bigger and fresh army – and attribute it simply to “wow, Jaime’s a great commander”.

      Or it could be attributed to something that some people have trouble accepting: The fact that the show isn’t the books, especially as it regards to these details. In the show, even the weakened Lannister army is said to be able to hold its own against the Tyrell army. A small council meeting in season six made it clear the Tyrell army was still second to the Lannister army.

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    168. innocence:
      Geralt of Rivia,

      I think you mean “it’s because it would be pointless to make them have sex in terms of the narrative if they are not in love.”

      But no, there can be other reasons to make them have sex in the story even if they are not in love. For example, maybe she will indeed get pregnant as a result, and that’s why the story makes them have sex, to produce a child. They don’t have to be in love to produce a child, or they don’t have to get married because of it either, one of them may simply die in the end but the child lives etc. Or, maybe they have sex just for Jon (or both) to have an internal conflict later in the story, after he learns that she is actually his aunt. They definitely don’t have to be in love to have sex; Daenerys had sex with men whom she didn’t love before, and it has been a long time since Jon had sex and Ygritte died, and Daenerys is a beautiful woman, so…And also many readers/watchers might enjoy it, so why wouldn’t the writers give them a sex scene between those two?

      Besides, even if they love each other it doesn’t mean that the romance will last long. In the story there is a prophecy about Daenerys which says that she will be betrayed by a lover. Jon can turn out to be that lover in the end; if for some reason he chooses not to marry Daenerys, for example. So, even the reason of a romance may be something else, in terms of the narrative.

      I think we should be open to different scenarios.

      Jon is not a type of character who just sleeps around with someone who he doesn’t love. Simple as that. You can say same thing with Dany.

      Melisandre was hot, yet he didn’t had sex with her. When you look at them from character standpoint, if they do have sex, spending a long time before together. Yes, they do necessarilly develop feelings for each other. Having child could be bonus but also being conflicted by most of all his feelings, because let’s be honest Targaryens are cool about it. Who will Jon do? Will it end well? Or what it brings to their relationship being related is whole another debate.

      But in Jon’s case as a character and Dany too. Since show wants to meet them and interact, yes its for the case not only having sex, this is the result of growing affection if what we heard is true.

      It never said she will be betrayed by a lover. She will be betrayed for love. This whole different thing. It could be anyone from Daario, Tyrion to Jon.

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    169. Irina Stark:
      Danny,

      Think positive thoughts, nothing but good vibes, all will be well. GRRM won’t kill them just to piss off his fans, he’ll do what feels right for the story and to me, what feels right is that after all the sh*t and struggle they’ve both faced in their lives, is that they survive and find love and comfort in each other. They need to find the one thing they’ve both wanted more than anything – a family and a home.

      You really believe that? I respect your opinion but I gave up ony kind of sweet ending or whre they love each other, have babies and rulling 7 kingdoms. Nah. she had chance for it and that was Drogo, not Jon. Jon will likely end up being a bitter ruler or dies. chances are there.

      Dany in the show wants one thing IT and that is it. Not family. That is bookDany who thinks she owes it to her family and their legacy to take back IT, in the show “I want it because it’s mine”. In the books she recalls a house with a red door, her memories from childhood and how she wants daughter. I wish they include some of it.

      Did you watch shows version of hotu scene, how Drogo said he’ll wait for her. Not that I wish her death, I love her too much or even Jon but death is very likely happening, Not because GRRM angering fans but is where the story seems to be heading. They’re messiahs or people to save Westeros. Dany especially has that mark on her. Usually, show is very clear in foreshadowing and it’s hard to be subtle. It showed King’s Landing and Beyond the Wall. Very close to IT and then turning her head towards white walkers and die fighting them. White Walkers gonna take out some A level characters.

      ygritte,

      Quite a lot of nudity.

      Maggie: You know who else has hair who turn silver in the moonlight?

      Jaime and Jon is so confirmed.

      Shall we call it JaJon?

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    170. Geralt of Rivia,

      Yes, you are right; I checked now and it actually says that she will be betrayed “for love”. But I feel like it’s still most likely to be Jon, so it’s possible that Jon will betray her for love. And he doesn’t even have to be her lover for that, he may simply reject a marriage in the end because he loves somebody else or he may choose his family over her etc. (there are many different kinds of love, even if he has some feelings for her, admiration or infatuation, it doesn’t mean that he is in love with her or she is the love of his life).

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    171. Speak for yourself Kathy darling.Emilia is a wonderful actress and she did an amazing job with Daenerys.I could never see anyone then her in the role.That’s why so many people love her.

      Why are we discussing Emilia and other actors here when it’s about their characters.I really don’t know.

      anyway can’t wait for Jon and Dany next season.

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    172. Irina Stark,

      People use terms ‘boat sex’, ‘sex on a boat’, ‘loveboat’ to mock the event. It’s clear from the leak (if we’re to take all of it as truth) they’re on a ship. They’re supposed to be with Unsullied.

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    173. Stella,

      This is a “shipper’s reply” 🙂 Sorry, but I don’t like “ship” wars. I’m just a rational person who have read all the books and watched all the episodes. So yes, I know the story but I don’t see it the way you see.

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    174. ghost of winterfell:
      SerNoName,

      Arya is described as pretty on at least 2 separate occasions. Once by Lady Smallwood and other by the KM. Arya’s “Mercy” face is supposed to be as pretty as her own. Besides, he also thought she had the potential to be trained with the Braavos courtesans. So she must have some good looks, even though I agree Jon/ Arya are no Jaime/ Cersei.

      And Kit/Maisie are not Nikolaj/ Lena.

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    175. Stella,

      People keep saying there’s so much whining ever since those leaks got out. Especially on Reddit. Well, then DON’T READ IT. Just drop the site and don’t read it ever again.

      I’m sorry, just teasing you. Couldn’t resist 🙂

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    176. Boojam,

      No, not in the scene where Dany stops him taking her from behind all business as usual, and then gets on top while both staring into each other’s eyes. I don’t recall much nudity if any.

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    177. aeris,

      Yes, I hope that’s the case. Otherwise it would just be awkward and uncomfortable, both for us and for them.

      innocence,

      A ship, not a boat hopefully ! Haha ! It sounds silly but Stella is right in one regard, Jon’s moral compass. He’s more of a ‘making love’ than a ‘having sex’ type of guy.
      I just want him to stop being so sad and brooding all the time. He needs to smile more and if that means Dany must bang him to make it happen, I’m cool with that.

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    178. Inga,

      Logically, if they’re

      leaving together to go North to fight the WW, you’d imagine that
      a) she can’t fly on Drogon all that distance, that’s uncomfortable, she needs to sail there
      b) she isn’t going alone but taking most of her army with her, while a part stays in DS and another at the Dragonpit
      c) she can’t bang Jon on a boat, it’s cold as hell and they’d freeze
      d) she’s a Queen and he’s a King after all, they need proper comfort

      The Unsullied, if any will still be alive by that point, would have to protect their Queen at all times, it wouldn’t be wise for her to travel in the presence of a foreign King alone, even if he is trustworthy he’s not James Bond, he couldn’t protect her on his own I feel like.
      It’s a long journey after all !

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    179. TheKingWhoCares,

      That’s what I think too. It could also be happening at the same time. Especially since the castle sits in for both HG and CR. The Lannisters just don’t have the numbers anymore to win battles. I think Jaime is just sneaking in to steal their stored crops. Dany sets a trap/attacks them on their way back to KL captures Jaime and takes him to Tyrion. Grey Worm captures Casterly Rock. All this then prompts Cersei to just sit back and let the WW kill off her enemies. It would be the only way she could get everything back. Until Arya comes to choke her LOL
      All we can do is speculate from what we know from what is being filmed currently. The timelines can be off.

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    180. Jon’s Mom,

      I don’t remember either, but it’s in the books and if that prophecy has an impact on the endgame, it should definitely happen in the show too even if the prophecy itself wasn’t mentioned in the show. We know that the show will reach the same place with the books although they follow different paths.

      Jewel,

      Yes of course Jon is a moral man, but it’s not like he would never touch a woman if he is not in love with her. Jon once wanted to have sex with a prostitute but he decided not to do it in the last minute only because he was afraid of impregnating her and producing a bastard child like himself, not because he is the most romantic man in history who would never have sex without love. He would do it if he had condoms. And I doubt that he was in love with Ygritte when he had sex with her, I think he started loving her after they became intimate. And he rejected Melisandre because he was still mourning for Ygritte, it’s not like he would never touch her, it was just too early.

      I agree that he is more of a making love type of guy than fucking type of guy, but just because he has sex with Daenerys (if he does, it wasn’t confirmed yet) it doesn’t mean that he fell in love with her. It’s possible that he learned that Daenerys can’t have children, so he is not afraid of producing a bastard; he doesn’t know that she is his aunt; and he doesn’t mourn for Ygritte anymore…so, why wouldn’t he have sex with the woman who is considered the most beautiful woman in the world? Come on, is there a man who has to have strong feelings to have sex with the most beautiful woman in the world? 🙂

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    181. Geralt of Rivia,

      I notice in the HOTU events are mentioned in 3’s : dragon has 3 heads, 3 mounts, 3 fires you shall light, one for life, one for death, one for love. 3 treasons you shall know. I love how we can interpret this so many different ways. It is only after the prediction happens (red wedding for example) that we can understand the meaning of it. “Oh wow, that is what they meant.” As far as the 3 treasons, I think that could maybe mean that three people will betray her, each for a different reason. When it says “once for blood” I think it means the person chose blood over Dany. I think that was Miri Mazz Duur (not sure of spelling). “Once for Gold and once for love” are still up in the air for me. It is easier to predict who Jon’s parents are because in that case we are not interpreting a prophesy, but you are just being a detective using Ned’s character, past events, and so on. But predicting prophesy is much different. It can be tricky stuff.

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    182. Sean C :

      I’m aware that some fans call J/D cliche (LMAO ) but did they call R+L = J cliche as well ? And that got confirmed just last episode ! and that’s been rumored for YEARS and it was so obvious from the very first book.If you really think that there is no need for love story anymore then please go watch another show and read those books again.
      Good lord Rhaegar/Lyanna are the reason of the whole f***ing war – and it was written by GRRM.
      JD will not be just another love story but their alliance is important for the war against the WW.

      People are seriously confusing predictable with a natural progression of the storyline.

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    183. Exciting stuff

      Hard to imagine Lannisters would have the wherewithal to attack Highgarden if they are preoccupied with the Riverlands (Sansa) once again now that Walder Frey is dead. Other side of that coin is that North is considered weakened and Riverlands in civil war so they can’t attack KL, meaning a quick strike at Higharden is possible?

      Do reckon the Castle is being both Casterly Rock and Highgarden though, as the picture with the flags has a light Sandstone look that I perceive Casterly Rock would have

      Have to say really like the new Tyrell and Lannister uniforms too

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    184. Stella,
      Luka Nieto,

      I think people whine about the alleged Missandei & Grey Worm sex scene primarily because of how it was presented in the article.
      Sorry, Luka, you are a great reporter and I enjoy your articles but this time you should have chosen other wording IMO.
      Missandei & Grey Worm had a pretty intimate scene back in S5 and since then they were acting as an official couple, so no surprise that a considerable part of the fandom feels confused and even embarrassed about the prospect of being introduced to the DETAILS. We don’t need DETAILS, like Tyrion or Bronn and as for me Missandei & Grey Worm can make love whatever way they like or do without love-making at all: it’s their private business, and I would prefer it to be kept private, unless it gives some push for the development of the overall story.
      Now whether some intimate love scene between Missandei & Grey Worm can have any push for the development of the overall story apart from breaking our hearts when Grey Worm dies or at least runs into some serious trouble? Who knows: for instance, Dany may see a glimpse of that intimacy and realize that she wants something like that much more than the Iron Throne. Indeed, the show had problems with revealing her her tender and vulnerable heart primarily because Dany is supposed to hide it and play tough. Nonetheless, we saw glimpses of her inner vulnerability in S6, and it’s an educated guess that we going to see more of that next season, when it becomes more relevant to the story.

      And as for all those accusations in racism, I have to say that I am still in a shock and feel like a certain part of the fandom deserves an apology.

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    185. Emma:
      Jon & Daenerys story has been paralleled and foreshadowed since page 1 in the books.Jon & Dany romancehappening is because the writer of the bookshas laid the groundwork for it in 5 BOOKS.

      How can anyone still deny that it’s still happening lmao.Probably those Jonsa fans.

      hmmm personally I reckon it seems more like Jon and Arya are getting shipped, may not be literal but could end up being via Jon in Ghost in Arya in Nymeria presiding over the epic Wolf Pack in winter at the very end (Ghomeria? Nymhost?) – after both Jon and Arya are killed – that way Jon is the Ranger etc and Arya is the Warrior Queen etc

      There’s a reason we have had POV descriptions of their experiences in both of their Skinchanging animals

      Dany just wants the simple life, wants the Red Door, so she may fake her death and just retire to Dorne to enjoy the Summer climate there

      This way, all of the characters kind of turn full circle, and finish where they end having gone through an epic journey

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    186. SerNoName,

      Arya as a small child was called horsefaced by Sansa and her BFF Jeyne Poole. Excuse me but that’s not a good measure of one’s looks. Those are just teens mocking and bullying. It’s ironic because Jeyne Poole is eventually chosen to play a part of fake Arya because they look similar. Ned’s looks were commented on by Catelyn. It’s all subjective. Obviously Ned wasn’t as handsome as Brandon and Catelyn simply made note of it. But like I said Jon’s not Ned’s doppleganger. Arya is likened to Lyanna and Jon to Arya, so both are similar to Lyanna and Lyanna was beautiful, maybe not a classical beauty but a beauty nonetheless.

      At the beginning of the story Arya was like 10. She never liked to look like a lady. She was always dirty and unkempt. In TWOW she is actually becoming somewhat of a femme fatale (TWOW chapters) despite being like 13 . She is in fact growing into her looks, she’s becoming a beauty and a few characters have pointed it out. Jon was never described as plain. So we cannot say that he is.

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    187. Emma,

      I don’t understand what you mean.

      Daenerys believes that she can’t have children,
      so she would tell Jon that she can’t have children because she believes so,
      that’s how and why Jon would think that she wouldn’t get pregnant.

      How am I ridiculous here? It’s basic logic.

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    188. asoiaf fan,

      Dany is the child of three. that’s why so many time numbr 3 was mentioned fires, mounts, treasons etc.

      Mirri Maz Duur was treason for blood.

      Brown Ben Plumm in the books for gold or what seems to be Jorah or I don’t know who else on the show. A bit unclear on this. For love could be anyone but Daario seems like a troublemaker. He loves her and she dumped him.

      innocence:
      Geralt of Rivia,

      Yes, you are right; I checked now and it actually says that she will be betrayed “for love”. But I feel like it’s still most likely to be Jon, so it’s possible that Jon will betray her for love. And he doesn’t even have to be her lover for that, he may simply reject a marriage in the end because he loves somebody else or he may choose his family over her etc. (there are many different kinds of love, even if he has some feelings for her, admiration or infatuation, it doesn’t mean that he is in love with her or she is the love of his life).

      You see, it could be anyone. Love have many forms and show and books might differ on it or will. They already do on gold treason.

      Who will Jon love in show version? There is no other option other than some random character which would be cheap. If they do have a child, all the more reasons to marry, not to have a bastard. Not because Jon loves her, but because of child. There could be many variations of it can unfold. Iam not a fan of this union bu there is ust too much of evidence. What I originally argued is style or how they seems to do it on the show. And of course how sketchy things sound from what we learned.

      Books said she will marry or well or at least be someone out of love. It seems pretty clear from this who it will be, Show seems to be pretty clear and of course it might not end well fot them once his parentage is out. If they do develop feelings, then RLJ we have a potential conflict of human heart as George calls it.

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    189. Emma,

      Innocence is not being ridiculous or anything. Just the way he or she sees it. To call it ridiculous is harsh.

      innocence,

      Jon doesn’t seems to talk about his resurrection, don’t think Dany would go on to tell him how she can’t have children. It’s private stuff. It was mentioned only two times when Khal Moro threatend her and to Jorah when they stole her dragons.

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    190. Geralt of Rivia,

      But Daenerys has a reason to tell that to Jon. Because Jon seems to be a very appropriate candidate for a political marriage that Tyrion suggested. Daenerys should tell him that she can’t or she believes that she can’t have children…if she believes that she can’t give an heir to Jon, he should know. She can tell him if she started liking him and wants to be honest because she thinks he doesn’t deserve to be deceived.

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    191. Like attraction is just a question of physical beauty and love is only possible when your partner shares almost all your qualities and point of views…

      Dany and Jon have things in common and they also differ in many ways( same as any couple I know btw)
      They both have a strong sense of duty and responsability; were raised as outsiders and without mothers; are open to other cultures and found their first love among “savages”; etc
      Dany is also very impulsive and has a temper, a strong contrast to Jon, who is reserved and tend to the ” silent hero” type.

      Now, take Brienne and Jaime: they have lots in common, but they are immensely opposite individuals, And yet, there is attraction there..

      My conclusion: we cannot expect to rationalize what will make them fall for each other really. I do hope the show does not screw up and rush things, but I also think they need to build up their romance in an organic way, otherwise can indeed becomae a case of ” too little, too late”.

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    192. Geralt of Rivia,

      You’re wrong on Daenerys not sleeping with someone she doesn’t love. She slept with Drogo before she fell in love (or more like developed Stockholm Syndrome), even though it was forced on her (but she did enjoy the act), she slept with Hizdahr zo ‘Kravitz’ Loraq (don’t tell me she ever felt anything but aversion for him), she first slept with Daario because she simply lusted after him (and we now know she never really loved him), in the books she even slept with Missandei and Irri. She is a very erotic person, she doesn’t need love first to do it. She often uses sex just for simple blissful pleasure or as a means to an end.

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    193. Inga,

      The leak claims that in the finale the plan is for Jon to lead the Unsullied North, approaching from the east up the coast. So the logical conclusion is that he’s on a ship with them, more likely he’s taking a few ships.

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    194. Emma,

      innocence,

      Geralt of Rivia,

      Priscila,

      Play nice guys, no need to get angry. We have a great season ahead of us and Jon will spend most of it alongside Dany so there is plenty of time to build a foundation for future sexual interaction. So the writers can go either the no-love just sex path or the full on love story but all of you need to keep in mind that it probably won’t be as obvious as you think.

      Like Priscilla said, the growth of their relationship must be organic and gradual and most of all, discreet if they do choose that direction for them, and I agree with Emma that that’s probably the best way to do it, for both the story and the characters.

      Now about those betrayals, here’s my opinion and please feel free to engage.
      Especially for the first part. I’ve always thought that the blood one was Mirri, the gold one was Doreah and the love one was Jorah because he loved her even though she never loved him back. I’d like to think Jon will never betray her, he’s not that kind of man.

      The mounts, dread for Drogo because she feared him at first, bed for Daario and love, probably and hopefully for Jon.

      As for the fires, I look at it as life for her dragon eggs, death for when she burns the Khals in Dosh Khaleen and for love when she will go to the North with her love (Jon) and burn the Walkers.

      The bottom line is, there is plenty of room for some brilliant story telling for both her and Jon. I don’t think his parentage or her ferility will come up this season, which are the two biggest impediments for them. They’ll meet, talk, walk, get to know each other, fall in love without realising it and then, probably, f*ck. What I try to remember is that there’s a huge difference between loving someone and being in love with someone and GRRM said, so many times, that love grows with time. We’ll see where the two will fit next season.

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    195. Geralt of Rivia,

      Who will Jon love in show version? There is no other option other than some random character which would be cheap. If they do have a child, all the more reasons to marry, not to have a bastard. Not because Jon loves her, but because of child. There could be many variations of it can unfold.

      According to me, in the books Jon-Arya is hinted the most, then Jon-Sansa, and Jon-Daenerys only comes after those two in terms of narrative/hints/foreshadowing/mythological and historical parallels etc. Not to mention that in GRRM’s 1993 draft, there is a love story between Jon and Arya although Daenerys exists in the draft too. I just feel like in the books Jon will choose Arya or Sansa over Daenerys in the end, and it will be the betrayal for love.

      But I agree that in the show it’s too late to develop something romantic between Jon and Arya, although it’s a bit easier between Jon and Sansa, even if it’s revealed that Jon is not their brother…given that Jon will spend the next season apart from them according to spoilers. That’s why I said “he may choose his family over Daenerys” in the show. Maybe the show will make it look like he chooses his half-sister(s)/cousin(s), in other words his family/Starks over Daenerys. So, it’s like he will betray Daenerys for Arya or Sansa in the show too, but maybe without the romantic part in the books if the books go there. Or…I don’t know, maybe Daenerys will give birth to a child but die, and that’s how Jon eventually ends up with someone else.

      I don’t “ship” Jon with anybody, I wouldn’t mind if it’s Daenerys, Arya, Sansa or somebody else…I’m not against one of them because I support the other, I really don’t. These are just my opinions based on what I understood from the story (especially the books). I just can’t see Jon and Daenerys getting married in the series finale, personally I’m pretty sure that it won’t happen. In the books I think it will be Jon-Arya or Jon-Sansa (I think Jon won’t die in the end but Daenerys can die) and I don’t believe that the show will change the endgame completely.

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    196. Irina Stark,

      My question was about the Unsullied, not about Jon and Dany: now we know that they will be sent to CR early in the season and probably that explains their absence in the leaked Dragonstone scenes or Dragonpit for that matter. But as far as I now, there haven’t been any hints to their return to Dragonstone and/or KL. So, if they succeed at the CR, it would be more reasonable to assume that Dany sends them a raven ordering to march straight to the North. Or if Dany is supposed to reunite with them somehow, does that imply that she (and Jon) will be going to CR and sailing to the North from there? Just wanted clarification.
      And as for Dany’s entourage, she will be guarded by her Dothraki blood riders both on Dragonstone and in the Dragonpit, so no-one speaks of her travelling alone with Jon (though I guess she wouldn’t mind).

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    197. asoiaf fan,

      IMO the treason for gold was the treason of one of Dany’s handmadens (Iris or what was her name) who helped Xaro Xhoan Daxos and Pyat Pree to capture her dragons (at least in the show); and the treason for love could be from the side of Daario: he looks like the most appropriate candidate as for now, but again more in the show, than in the books.

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    198. innocence,

      Jon and Sansa have any foreshadowing in the books? That’s cute. There’s not even been a bone thrown Jonsa shippers’ way when it comes to ASOIAF. There’s nothing. It’s a complete crackship in canon.
      Sue the Fury,

      oh right. I forgot she’s a small child in canon.

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    199. Inga,

      Good point. I didn’t think of the betrayal for gold in association with those characters. They chose gold over Dany. I don’t think Daario fits the “betrayal for love” and here is why. The character is betraying her FOR Love not because they love her and they will betray her . I don’tknow why I am thinking Tyrion except he is so tied to her and he is supposed to be on her side working with her. Perhaps he betrays her for Jamie? Just a guess but this 3rd treason will come to pass.

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    200. Danny,

      Well, “plain” has different nuances depending on the context.
      If it is clear that Quentyn is considered “ugly”, and “plain” is only the polite/sugar-coated way to put it, Jon is described as a Ned-looking boy. Now, from what I could gather from the whole Stark story (yes, I love the Starks, I confess to it), Ned was “plain” meaning “not ugly, but not particularly attractive either”. Anonymous? Ordinary? (I am not a native speaker, but I hope you get what I mean). He was not tall, and not even outgoing, and this made him slightly less unattractive than Brandon.

      It might be that book!Jon is, let’s say, OK-looking, maybe even cute, and he probably is, but please let us put our Kit Harington image aside. My critic is mainly aimed at people believing “Character Daenerys” will react to “Character Jon” the same way us ladies, gays and bisex react to “Insanely Gorgeous Kit Playing Jon”. Or the same way Character Jon will react to Character Daenerys – who is considered by everybody of extraordinary, outworldly beauty.
      (not that I am complaining about the casting choices, of course 😉 )

      Then there is the subjectivity problem. To me, as far as beauty is concerned, Nathalie, Carice and Sophie are many leagues above Emilia; on the male side, Iain, Kristof, Richard (Madden) and Kit are many leagues above all other actors. Take every single commenter here, and he/she will write a completely different chart. A discussion without end, basically, which could take place in Planetos as well.

      The genetics…in real life, beautiful parents does not always equal beautiful children, but genetics on Planetos is quite peculiar. Maybe some expert on this matter of GRRM’s world-building can give us some thought-provoking impulse or funded opinion.

      If GRRM and D&D are good writers, they will try to set up a believable kind of relationship between the two of them, be it a political, a friendly or a more intimate one. If they are not, or don’t want to be good writers and go the “Twilight” way…
      …well, we will get back to the Grey Worm and Missandei problem we are currently having. “People criticising their scenes for the lame dialogues written for them and the poor direction being accused of racism” will simply become “haterZ hating jxd” (already happened to me, see above), even when they argue their positions analysing facts, dynamics, using logic to back their opinions and so on.

      After all, if the majority of the fandom is satisfied by teenagerish dialogues and dynamics, why should they care for quality? I do, some of you do, the majority does not. Who is gonna make them richer than they are? 🙂
      I ask for quality, but I will see what I get. For now, it seems like I should settle for a brief moment of joy when Daenerys crisps some Lannisters… 😉

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    201. aeris,

      OK. Thank you for the reply: I have missed that.

      So, according to the leak the Unsullied will make it back to Dragonstone/KL? Not impossible, but still weird. Could it be that the leak misinterpreted something and that Dany and Jon are going to CR before they sail to the North?

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    202. innocence,

      Dany has no reason to tell anyone that she believes she can’t have
      Children unless she is to marry that person. Her fertility is not a lead in to a meeting, it’s personal and Jon has no right or know unless they are intending to marry and produce heirs.

      Nothing has led us to believe that’s what’s happening between them at this point. If they ever make it to that point in their relationship then Dany can share that information but otherwise, he has no right to be privy to it.

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    203. Asoiaf fan,
      I totally like how you think!

      First of all, the ” 3 betrayal” prophecy only fits to book-verse, so let us focus on that universe.
      One of my favourite suppositions is Tyrion indeed, and I think it might really be him. A reconciliation with Jaime? Something to do with Tysha (who might be still alive)? Tyrion’s love for his dream of being the Lord of Casterly Rock? Tyrion’s love for himself above all? Tyrion falling in love with Daenerys and finding himself in a triangle of hate with…Jorah and/or Jon? (the “deadly rivalry for love” was one of George’s initial ideas, after all…)
      Anyway, considering that this is not Ned knowing a truth he only has to hide (R+L=J), but esoteric stuff (treacherous prophecy), it might be many other things.
      For example, I have also read the hypothesis that Dany could be the one who betrays, and not the one betrayed. My example according to this view: she might betray her Messianic calling in order to settle for the dream of the “house with the Red Door”.

      Another interesting hypothesis I read on reddit (which shows you how many possibilities there are when you read the books carefully) is that Jorah will be the betrayal for love…however, not his love for Daenerys, as many have thought. Instead, it could be his love for his family, whom he had wounded in every possible way, or his love and longing for Bear Island.

      The Valonqar prophecy? It might be Tyrion, Jaime, Arya, Theon, the Hound…everyone who is a younger sibling could be the one who does Cersei in.
      Even little Lyanna Mormont! 😉 (that would be hilarious!)

      Speculating has no end, unless you finish your internet GB…

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    204. aeris,

      I think there are hints although not as much as Jon-Arya. First of all, it is known that ASOIAF have parallels to British history, and according to that particular era and events the king marries the eldest Stark (York) daughter in the end to unite houses. Second, there are many similarities between Ned/Catelyn and Jon/Sansa; I think the show somehow made it look like Ned/Catelyn resemble Jon/Sansa too. Third, there is that old theory about 5 champions, a story parallelling Sansa’s suitors in the books, and according to that parallel Sansa’s last suitor would be a Targaryen.

      Of course these are all open to argument, but there are hints if you look for hints. I don’t see any more hints for Jon-Daenerys than Jon-Sansa, it seems less likely according to me, but you may be seeing more hints if you look for them. But as I said, I think Jon-Arya is hinted the most.

      I don’t think we can say that “it’s a crack ship” because I don’t think it has a less chance than Jon-Daenerys for the endgame. When you say that it becomes “shipper talk/argument” and I really don’t have any interest in it. I try to see eveything from a completely rational/objective point of view.

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    205. aeris,

      You are right about Dany: she had less sex partners in the show, but she is clearly presented as someone who is capable of having sex out of necessity (Drogo in the beginning) or lust (Daario). But IMO the showrunners made it pretty clear that for Dany all that sex out of lust ended up in a major disappointment and that she was just impatient to be done with that. So, her story may take to ways from this point: either she marries for political reasons and becomes increasingly frigid wrecking life for her husband and probably killing him at the end (Cersei’s way); or Dany will be lucky enough to find a loving man and to light the fire (in her heart) to love him in return. (That’s my interpretation of the HOTU prophecy about the third fire.)
      As for Jon, I sort of agree with Innocence that Jon might have sex for other reasons than love. I exclude lust: neither Jon, nor any other protagonist in GOT are lustful (even Tyrion longs for true love). However, I can totally see Jon marrying (and yes, having sex) out of duty/political reasons. But even, if that happens, IMO Jon will try and probably even succeed in building love on that basis, because he is that type of a character or person, if you wish, and BTW not so uncommon for the Middle Ages.
      So, if Jon & Dany is to happen, there won’t be too many rainbows or unicorns, but it might be rather interesting after all.

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    206. Luka Nieto:
      HotPinkLipstick,
      Abbie,
      Eduard,

      If you guys think vaginal penetrative sex with a penis is the only sex there is, or the only sex worth taking seriously, you may lack sexual imagination

      Grey Worm may not have a penis, but he has a tongue with which he can do more than speak two languages spartanly. Cunnilingus, man. Cunnilingus.

      Hey don’t kill me for saying this guys but are we completely sure they “took the pillar with the stones”? In an earlier season Dany and Missandei actually have that conversation wondering if they take everything. Seems strange to me for that to come up if they were all taken root and stem like Varys. Why raise the question if there isn’t a possibility he still has something down there?

      If not they could still have a lot of fun lol!!

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    207. A few things:

      – the 3 betrayal prophecy was never uttered or mentioned in the show, unless I missed it. Anyway, Doreah does not betray Dany in the books, where the prophecy is in there for sure. Doreah dies in the Red Waste.

      – Book!Dany tries to understand the prophecy by herself, and makes suppositions about Ben Plumm and Jorah. However, we – who read the story from many other PoVs than Dany – already know that she was completely wrong. 1) Jorah spied on her and Viserys in the beginning, then betrayed Viserys and switched sides to Daenerys. The only one he truly betrayed in the end was Illyrio, or Varys, if you prefer. Anyway, he spied on the Targaryen siblings for a pardon, not for gold 2) Ben Plumm never betrays Dany. TWOW spoilers:

      It is all a strategic fake move in order to spy on the Yunkai’i. He switched back to Dany as soon as the fighting begins.

      Jaime and Brienne were raised in the same culture, and a connection is far easier to establish. It is a huge difference with Jon and Daenerys. You might write a romance between those two, but you would have to overcome many a difficulties, and put aside so many open fronts you already dug the trenches for… too many for 13 episodes or two books. If the writers can do it, kudos; if not, I will complain.
      (no, I am not talking about Jon and Sansa, believe me!)

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    208. Geralt of Rivia,

      I am aware he was describing Val. I said just a much in my comment.
      And yes, I am also aware that Jamie’s hair shines silver in moonlight (though never said anything about pale skin) but which character alive doesn’t need a moonlight; naturally has those features; the real deal?

      As for the battle, I had theory but I am now having a hard time figuring out the sequence of the battles. However, Grey worm being absent from DP meeting makes me think it goes as follows:
      1. Greyworm invades CR
      2. Lannister vs Tyrell
      3.Dany’s ambush
      4. Greyjoy fight in finale

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    209. Bran’s built-in White Walker GPS,
      The show didnt include the betrayal prophecy. In the books though, Jorah does count as a betrayal. She felt betrayed by Viserys as well. Ben Plumm also betrayed her and I think Dario will as well.

      In the HOTU, it was the dragons crying that stopped her from taking the throne and she went beyond the wall looking for them. It wasn’t saving the people or her love for another man.

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    210. Bran’s built-in White Walker GPS

      You see how opinions are different ?

      I find Kit completely average and Emilia so gorgeous just like her Daenerys character is described in the books and just like Daenerys is completely gorgeous in the show.

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    211. Abbie: but I am now having a hard time figuring out the sequence of the battles. However, Grey worm being absent from DP meeting makes me think it goes as follows:

      I still think Daenerys’ strategy when she hears of the Lannisters wiping out the Tyrells, is to take her Dothraki to the ambush against the Lannisters, which she wins, but Jaime and Bronn escape. At the same time, she orders Greyworm and the Unsullied to go to Casterly Rock. My initial thought was that GW encounters Euron there, but I read another theory that GW takes CR and he is left at CR the rest of the season to hold it for Daenerys; this is why he is absent at the dragonpit. This would mean that by the end of the season, Cersei may have lost CR, and is boxed in at KL with wildfire all underneath. THEN, Jaime abandons her and goes North with Brienne, and it’s the end of the line for her. Everything she held dear – children, power, Jaime – gone from her.

      Abbie: In the HOTU, it was the dragons crying that stopped her from taking the throne and she went beyond the wall looking for them.

      Yes, my interpretation of the HotU scene has always been that her dragons were the most important thing for her, not the throne, not going North of the Wall, but her dragon children.

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    212. aeris,

      Truth be told, I kinda hesistated with her but my point with Jon still stands. Well, she had feelings at first for Daario and later on with Drogo.

      innocence,

      Original outline is not an avidence, so don’t know why people bring it up as evidence. Things changed.

      There is zilch foreshadowing for Jon and Sansa. Jon and Sansa only became a thing during season 6. Arya yes, but since show seems to take on different route. Either will be different or same and Jon and Dany will get on it in both mediums.

      Jon and Arya is hard to sell to the audience, same as with Sansa. They’ll be likely apart for almost whole season, while Jon is bonding with Dany or what it looks like. That tells you all you need to know Jon is not gona dump someone, to get with other person within the same story yet again. Look how long it took him to grieve for Ygritte 4 seasons basically.

      If they marry, fall in love or not. Doubt he’ll get marry in the story yet again and fall in love. Too much for to olittle space of time. Not to mention Sansa is far from what Jon likes in girls. Ygritte, Arya, Dany or Val are different to her, very. Add to creepy Cat like resemblence. Since Val is not in show, not enough time for Arya and Sansa. Him bonding or be around Dany. It’s pretty clear even tho I don’t like this pairing. Like you, prefer Jon not to be involved in a romance but hints are there.

      In my opinion her love for Jon will be her downfall. She’ll make a mistake, be rash or do something stupid. Sweatness, poison, love it’s all connected in her chapters.

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    213. Abbie,

      The thing about Jaime was more of a joke and not like really. Yes, Dany do have a silver hair but just don’t see how something Jon said specifically about Val people want to turn as foreshadowing for Jon and Dany romantic connection. I guess, since we are fans of ASOIAF we tend to look for deeper meaning in everything but sometimes it’s plain and simple. Iam not saying he wouldn’t find her attractive or get together but this is simply starting of something between Jon and Val in the books. It won’t last but he seems to fancy her.

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    214. Abbie,

      You clearly have not understood a single word of what I wrote.
      If it is because I am not a native speaker, I apologise for that. Otherwise, try harder.
      (hidden Stannis’s partial quote).

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    215. Geralt of Rivia,

      That was a good read, very insightful and I completely agree. I also think her love for Jon could mess things up for her. I just hope she’ll somehow be able to have a child .. The Targaryen bloodline cannot die, it’s just too heartbreaking to even imagine. Maybe if Rhaegar and Lyanna married and Jon is legitimate, they would have ‘free’ passage to kill Dany in the final season but as much as I love Jon, that doesn’t sound good to me at all. To have the person who’s fought her whole life to reclaim her homeland and restore the family name to it’s former glory die and have Jon carry on the name who has always been a Stark at heart would just be like a sad way of saying that Dany’s storyline’s sole real purpose in the story was to have her hatch the dragons. But then again, we’ve seen sadder things on this show and the HotU vision does point us in that direction.

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    216. Abbie,

      Yes, the course of war looks like an absolute mess with all these leaks and spoilers. However, I would like to offer an alternative approach.

      Dorne looks like the weakest link of the chain, so IMO Euron vs Sand Snakes and then Yara should happen early: probably in Ep 2.
      Ep 3 then gives the sack of Highgarden. I still believe that it will happen due to Tarlies’ treason, because I can’t imagine anyone as wise as Ollena simply caught off guard. Then it should provoke Dany’s landing in the mainlands and the ambush battle which still confuses me, because I can’t imagine any attacking force ambushing someone so deeply inland and neither I can imagine Dany sailing from Dragonstone all the way to Highgarden and then back again. Maybe the ambush will happen near KL, where the road from Highgarder comes close to the Black Water Bay? But just now I feel like nothing lines up with the Westeros map.
      As for the Unsullied they may be sent to CR at some point (Ep 2 or 3 most probably), and show up there in the finale, after the Dragonpit sequence. Maybe, the terms of the armistice will include lifting the siege of CR or similar and Jaime will go there to deliver the message or something?

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    217. Inga: Sorry, Luka, you are a great reporter and I enjoy your articles but this time you should have chosen other wording IMO.

      I enjoy their characters and their scenes and I will not make excuses for that, let alone change the article to reflect your particular views. Thank you for the suggestion anyway. I appreciate that you usually like my reporting.

      Inga: Missandei & Grey Worm can make love whatever way they like or do without love-making at all: it’s their private business, and I would prefer it to be kept private, unless it gives some push for the development of the overall story.

      This is a story, about characters, so what do you mean by “private”? We are not intruding in the lives of real people. “Intruding” in the lives of these very-much-not-real characters is… what a story is supposed to be.

      Inga: And as for all those accusations in racism, I have to say that I am still in a shock and feel like a certain part of the fandom deserves an apology.

      Read my comment again, please. I explicitly underlined that I wasn’t accusing anyone of racism or anything like that. Not conscious racism, anyway. What I said is that the reason some people may not engage with these characters and this relationship is because they are very different people from them —black former slaves, one a eunuch trained to be a killing machine, the other implied to have been forced into sexual favors for his master, both rather quiet and reserved in their demeanour because of it. And no, I’m not gonna apologize for that comment. I stand by it, in fact. Honestly, where do you get off with such a demand? I don’t “owe an apology” to anyone.

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    218. Totally off-topic, but:

      Luka Nieto,

      Luka! Long time, no see! (or.. read, I guess.) OK, that’s obviously on me: I’ve been really busy. When did you get this gig?

      (I’m too lazy to scroll around and find it….)

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    219. Geralt of Rivia: Yes, Dany do have a silver hair but just don’t see how something Jon said specifically about Val people want to turn as foreshadowing for Jon and Dany romantic connection.

      The hair color is unimportant, just as it is for most people. What is important is that Jon likes and admires strong-willed, free-thinking people. This has extended to sexual attraction to Ygritte, Val and Melissandre.

      We can ditto that for Daeny. She likes unconventionally charismatic people and people who are fairly egalitarian in their principles.

      So, this is not so much a Chekhovian gun as it is a set of Chekhovian Dueling Pistols! 😀

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    220. Luka Nieto,

      I hope so! Life was extremely busy: and I was devoting what free time I had to baseball discussion, as I am one of those silly Chicago Cubs fans.

      Of course, it also is a bit more difficult to discuss the thing that I really like to discuss with adaptations: what is the best way to go from print -> screen and communicate the story! I suspect that we are points of the over-arching story that will never see publication by now…. 🙁

      Are you going to start another “predicted season outline” thread? That was fun last year.

      And belated congrats on the new gig. I hope that your agent held out for big Euros! 😀

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    221. Sue the Fury,

      Really… You’re gonna pull the racism card thing? I happen to like both Grey worm and Missandei- they’re great characters. I just don’t think anyone saw a sex scene between those two coming, especially cause people aren’t sure what… uh… parts Greyworm has left. But I mean if he does still have a dick then by all means go ahead. I think people are just surprised.

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    222. Exactly !! A this point in the story, you need to start playing with the pieces that are already on the table, in the Chekhovian manner of what you have and how you use it. Jon & Dany’s chemistry is vivid and has veridicity because of how the characters were built. The die is cast, it’s only a matter of waiting till it stops spinning and see what we get.

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    223. In all the speculation about ‘Who will be the third person to betray Dany, for love?’ I’ve seen no one considering the possibility of Dany herself being the final betrayer. Maybe not the most likely scenario, but not out of the realm of possibility. The prophecy – ‘Three treasons will you know’ – is vaguely worded, perhaps very deliberately.

      GRRM has warned us that prophecies in his books are not necessarily to be taken at apparent face value. And he likes to portray hearts divided. Maybe Dany will have to kill one of her own dragon babies to save Jon, or vice versa, for example.

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    224. Emilia is pretty but she’s nowhere near what Daenerys should look like canon-wise but that’s a highly challenging task (striking otherwordly beauty), almost as much as with Rhaegar, so there’s bound to be disappointment. And she’s kind of awkward in intimate scenes (see her scenes with Daario for reference). I can’t help but see her as a pretty sorority girl who’s playing dress up most of the time.

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    225. Arya Serious,

      I think people are forgetting about Greyworm here, only focusing on how he can pleasure Missandei. How are they supposed to know what to do to make it pleasurable for him too? I doubt they know about prostate stimulation. Will they find out during the act? Like will she randomly you know? The poor chap deserves some relief too.

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    226. I can’t say that I’ve seen any sort of extreme vitriol in people’s comments who don’t care much for the Grey Worm/Missandei romance subplot. It seems to be more along the line of impatience with an unnecessary and arguably boring digression.

      Personally, I much prefer book!Missandei, the 11-year-old genius translator in the Hermione Granger mold, as a character. And I’m afraid that I can’t warm up to Grey Worm, knowing that he had to murder an infant in order to earn his Unsullied helmet.

      That is in no way saying that including a storyline focusing on people of color is a bad thing.

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    227. Luka Nieto: Or it could be attributed to something that some people have trouble accepting: The fact that the show isn’t the books, especially as it regards to these details. In the show, even the weakened Lannister army is said to be able to hold its own against the Tyrell army. A small council meeting in season six made it clear the Tyrell army was still second to the Lannister army.

      No. They consistently said the Lannisters are exhausted.

      As for that Small Council scene, yeah, all reviewers pointed out that it must have been edited poorly, and that Jaime was talking about the Tyrell army or something.

      This isn’t a matter of “books vs TV series”, but of the TV series contradicting itself, regardless of book information.

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    228. And no, I’m not gonna apologize for that comment. I stand by it, in fact. Honestly, where do you get off with such a demand? I don’t “owe an apology” to anyone.

      You’re saying that people who criticize things in the TV series either hate them because they’re not in the books, or because they’re racists. Yes, that is offensive. Some people might just not think something is well written – in isolation, on its own, ignoring books or any other factors.

      As it happens, again, I actually like that they made Grey Worm/Missandei stuff, and it isn’t even taking up that much screentime, and I am baffled if some people don’t like it or think it’s slow – but that’s a subjective criticism.

      You’re deflecting the very validity of a criticism that “viewing the TV show in isolation, this doesn’t make sense”.

      Again, with the Jaime thing, I said: if they DO give some sort of explanation that “Euron lured their armies to the coasts so Jaime could attack Highgarden”, that even makes sense.

      What confuses me even more is that….you latched on to one stray quote Jaime made in Season 6 which may have been a dialogue error anyway….or, yes, could have been a poorly inserted retcon about the strength of the Lannister army. While at the same time, waving aside our criticisms of “the TV show is ignoring other statements” a “we just don’t like it because that wasn’t in the books”.

      I mean think about it: we’ve got half a dozen quotes saying “the Lannisters are exhausted” and ONE in which Jaime’s line might have just gotten jumbled. The only difference, admittedly, is that Jaime’s came recently.

      (sigh) Yes this is comparable to the Martell thing: in Season 2 they said “youngest son” as if there was more than one, then basically retconned that in Season 5. Yes, retcons happen.

      The TV show isn’t a holy scripture, in which any contradiction is due to our misinterpretation. Heck, even GRRM isn’t perfect and has made a few retcons (what color are Renly’s eyes? 🙂

      …..but the easier answer is most often “the TV writers are increasingly making mistakes and creating massive plot holes” rather than “we’re not smart enough to see how this makes sense”.

      But I’m worried my tone is wrong here: YES, it is still entirely probable, and I’m fairly sure of this, that they’ll explain Jaime attacking Highgarden as due to a feint by Euron to the coasts drawing away the Tyrell army. So rather than argue about that specific point I’ll wait until we have more info.

      But when did any review ever say “we think Missandei and Grey Worm are boring because they’re not white?”

      By the same logic, people didn’t dislike “TV-Dorne” because the Martells are not white. And not even, specifically, because it deviated from the books — but because even people who hadn’t read the books could tell that the TV version was poorly written.

      This isn’t just a case of books vs TV series.

      But on the other hand I agree with your original point that it’s sort of baffling why some people don’t like Missandei/Grey Worm and I can’t think of a clear reason myself, I like it.

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    229. Inga,

      I think that too. Xaro more so than Doreah because his plan was to trick her into believing he would marry her. Then he stole the dragons to inprison her.

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    230. Luka Nieto,

      Read my post again too. I am totally on board with Missandei & Grey Worm love story including whatever intimacy the showrunners decide to show it as long as it is meaningful. An I have trust in D&D to make it meaningful. But you have delivered the news in such a way as if the scene was just supposed to fill sex and nudity quota, and people started to complain mostly because of the impression they got.

      And as for your point that people don’t get engaged into Missandei & Grey Worm love story, because they are alegedly “so different”, let me ask you, which of the characters is alike? The whole problem of the Essos story line is that, compared to the Westeros story line, it has no that fictional realism: most if not all of the Westerosi plots have parallels or are inspired by real history, and that makes entire Essos look cartoonish on that background. If the Unsullied were inspired by the Mamluks, as they are supposed to be, Missandei should be something like Shajar al-Durr, Grey Worm should be something like Aybak, etc. Instead we get what we get, and no wonder that many people call that boring.

      And as for accusations in racism, my complain was addressed to another person, but well let it be. Nowadays such accusations are traded so often, that they have no point.

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    231. Irina Stark,

      I think she will have a child ultimately because motherhood seems to be one of main things for her character. Maybe the deal is to lose all her dragon babies to have real one. Question will she die during childbirth or not? That seems to be debate for many fans. One seem to look at disgraceful ending for such a character and others seems to think she will live. Childbirth in these times seems to be risky at any point and while she survived one, one miscarriage in the books. Who knows what will happen.

      Targaryen will probably sit on the iron throne at the end but if Jon takes no Targ line. What will happen to Starks? Their blood would survive through all of them but Sansa or Arya would take on different names. Bran is crippled. A lot of people seems to forget about this.
      ¨
      Maybe part of bittersweet ending is that Jon will have to be Targ even if he doesn’t want to be one, he’s more Stark and their House will gone, unless he takes on Stark name.

      Wimsey,

      It was more about facial features, hair and that their personalities. Dany, Ygritte, Arya, Val seems to be fitting that category wild, strong, independent. I said as much in another comment. Mel sexual attraction, he was pretty cool even if she undressed herself.

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    232. The Dragon Demands,

      You talk shit about this website and it’s owners behind their backs on Lindaaaa’s twitter and then like a two face coward that you are you pretend to be someone reasonable,who the fuck are you to criticise anyone’s views ?

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    233. As several have already said regarding Dany’s 3 betrayals- that wasn’t brought up in the show as far as I can recall.

      Doesn’t mean that those betrayals won’t /haven’t happened in the show though- and I suspect they have/will.

      My predictions have always been:

      Blood: MMD
      Gold: Jorah
      Love: Missandei (drops mic)..

      The reason I’ve always suspected it’d be Missandei is that in the books her last remaining brother is unsullied. On the show they’ve ramped it up by making her lover the leader of Unsullied. My theory is that she’ll be blackmailed (initially I suspected TSOTH but could now be team Cersei), over the life of GW and will be forced to betray Dany to save his life. With tragic outcome.

      The fact their romance seems to be intensifying and the fact that Jacob appears to be on location with NCW fits with this. Dany has also asked Missandei never to betray her (books and show- I believe). Missandei betraying Dany would be the ultimate punch in the guts for the audience.

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    234. Geralt of Rivia: Question will she die during childbirth or not? That seems to be debate for many fans.

      Am I correct in thinking that for you, the most preferred ending for Daenerys is to die in childbirth? You have posted many times about this, and also said the show’s HotU vision supports her dying at the end. I would like to know how you would like her story arc to ned.

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    235. Geralt of Rivia,

      Not necessarily disgraceful, giving birth to a Targaryen prince would be a very beautiful way for her to go but a very conventional one if you consider the character build up around her and all she’s achieved in her life. But she’s always been a Mother, first of Rhaego, then of Dragons, her maternal prowess is so intense throughout the story so as you said, they HAVE to touch on the subject somehow.

      I hope Jon will be a Stark. He’s always wanted it, he grew up as one, he deserves it and he lived up to the expectations. He is the White Wolf of Winterfell and the King in the North. Finding his father is from a different bloodline shouldn’t change that. Besides, Ghost > any dragon.

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    236. Kay,

      Yeah, but Dany turned right back around and walked out of the tent in the general direction of back through the wall and, presumably, back to the throne.

      It may suggest a temporary diversion from her primary goal, right?

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    237. Tori: I just don’t think anyone saw a sex scene between those two coming, especially cause people aren’t sure what… uh… parts Greyworm has left

      Are you kidding me?! I saw a sex scene coming between Grey Worm and Missy, and I’m ‘people’.

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    238. Really, it’s like y’all are in high school, or something.

      Grey Worm and the Unsullied all have muscular bodies. Their body type is very different from Varys’. Testosterone drives the development of male characteristics, like muscularity. Testosterone comes from the gonads and adrenal glands – testes in men, and ovaries in women. Therefore, I think the Unsullied have their testes.

      Testosterone also drives aggression. Maybe that’s why Varys hates the sight of blood, and the Unsullied are such fierce fighters.

      I would hate for a tender moment between two gorgeous actors, and lovely characters, to turn jeering and tawdry.

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    239. Inga: And as for accusations in racism, my complain was addressed to another person, but well let it be. Nowadays such accusations are traded so often, that they have no point.

      I didn’t find anything off about how the news of GW and Missy’s sex scene was reported.

      And, accusations of racism do carry weight, and are not pointless, as you say they are.

      If you find that you’re accused so often that you consider it “traded so often”, then perhaps the accusation is accurate.

      If people keep calling you fat, you might wanna hit the cardio.

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    240. Firannion: GRRM has warned us that prophecies in his books are not necessarily to be taken at apparent face value.

      heh, when are prophecies ever anything but ironic? That written, can one betray oneself? You are absolutely correct that GRRM’s stories are all about internal conflicts. However, that is really about “debugging” oneself, not “betraying” oneself.

      Still, I expect that she and Jon will have conflicts of interest. If nothing else, then convincing Daeny that White Walkers are a real threat could set up some definite problems that lead to a sort of “Yes, we want to do both X and Y, but X first, then Y; no, Y first, then X” variety.

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    241. S

      Sue the Fury:
      People reserve such a unique degree of venom for Grey Worm and Missandei that I can’t help but wonder sometimes if it’s a by-product of either a) the romance being strictly a show-thing and not from the books, or b) racism.

      They’re good actors.

      Multiple choice! You’ve got skillz, Sue! …..gee, I wonder which answer they’ll comment one?

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    242. The Dragon Demands: As for that Small Council scene, yeah, all reviewers pointed out that it must have been edited poorly, and that Jaime was talking about the Tyrell army or something.

      What Jaime said was quite clear. Explain the ambiguity to me, please:

      You’ve got the second largest army in Westeros.

      You are usually very reasonable about changes from the books concerning characters and plotlines, so it’s really striking to me whenever you react so negatively to changes to worldbuilding trivia, which hold no inherent meaning or value in the story (Please, don’t ignore the “inherent” modifier —I’m aware worldbuilding can be fun… once one gets into a story.)

      Also, “all reviews”? I’d really appreciate it if in the future you expressed your opinion directly, as everyone else does here, instead of shielding it behind the (unsourced) supposed views of “all” critics. This isn’t your wiki; Here there’s no need for any pretense of encyclopedic neutrality. Here you can (and should) share your views as what they are —Your perfectly valid subjective opinions 🙂

      The Dragon Demands: But when did any review ever say “we think Missandei and Grey Worm are boring because they’re not white?”

      “When did any review ever say that”? No review ever did. Because of course no review would. Because if you actually read my comment, you must know what’s not what I claimed. Because I’m not arguing anyone is being consciously racist but merely that, for some people especially, empathy is more difficult to feel towards those who are different from them. No, “Not ALL people” (ugh, do I hate that strawman argument), as you suggested; Going by how you explained my position, it seems I believe that either book fanaticism or racism are the only reasons for not liking Grey Worm and Missandei. I didn’t write that. I wrote that book fanaticism and a lessened empathy towards “the other” are two main reasons some people don’t get attached to these two.

      Look, guys, let’s put it another way: We all have been attached to characters or relationships despite less than stellar writing or acting, I’m sure, right? Yet we are engaged for other reasons. When there is a barrier to that engagement, any issue in the writing and acting (however minor) sticks out like a sore thumb, because we’re not emotionally invested already. That’s what I’m saying; a statement I certainly won’t apologize about. I’m not saying that if someone doesn’t don’t like Grey Worm and Missandei they belong to the KKK. Chill.

      Anon: And, accusations of racism do carry weight, and are not pointless, as you say they are.

      If you find that you’re accused so often that you consider it “traded so often”, then perhaps the accusation is accurate.

      This. The minute someone complains about another “playing the race card”, I begin to have an idea where they stand. And it’s not anywhere I’d like to stand.

      Wimsey,

      I would love to write another speculative summary, and in fact early on I did, but with the many leaks and such, and now being privy to a few extra datails that have not been reported, doing that again doesn’t really make sense, sadly.

      Wimsey,

      I know you were joking, and there’s certainly no hurry, but in fact I would appreciate your opinion on these reports. I like your writing a lot 😉

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    243. Anon: Yeah, but Dany turned right back around and walked out of the tent in the general direction of back through the wall and, presumably, back to the throne.

      It may suggest a temporary diversion from her primary goal, right?

      MY interpretation of that scene: it was not “presumably” back to the throne. As in, that’s not MY presumption. She heard baby dragons cry, so she walked back from the icy north to resume her search for her dragons, her goal in entering that building in the first place. I have no problem with however you want to interpret that scene, though. It’s just not a universal, only-correct-way interpretation.

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    244. Oh my god Ive been spending the last few days wallowing in other news, should have been here! This is such cool news, and now I will spend my Sunday pm catching up on comments. Slow down people….not 🙂

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    245. Kathy:
      Jenny,

      The only decent love story on the show is the one between Brienne and Jamie and that’s because it’s so well acted.Instead of gratuitous sex scenes, you have two actors of such good quality they are able to convey their feelings and longings through visual acuity and exceptional acting. It’s no accident Dany gets naked and sexual so often, it hides the fact that she’s not a very strong actress.Maybe if a better actress had the role I’d feel differently but she’s such a disappointment after her characterization in the books.

      Jaime and Brienne are just good friends…very good friends. She’s grateful for him saving her. Jaime is grateful that Brienne saved his bacon.

      They are not romantically involved, in my opinion. The consistent thing in the men Brienne ‘love’ is that they save her, in some way. One was homosexual and the other is banging his sister…but they both saved her. Jaime also mocked Brienne mercilessly. He mocked her height, her size, her face…bla bla bla.. that’s a sexual no-go.

      And lastly, Jaime’s sexual activity has been 1) grunting convulsions on the dirty floor of a broken tower, and 2) a threesome with a cadaver, that happened to be his dead son.

      So…if you want what’s best for Brienne, you’ll hook her up with Jon or Tormund, judging by Ygritte’s opinion, and Tormund’s bear story.

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    246. Pigeon,

      This guy isn’t worth my respect,so no i won’t,if i’m banned i don’t care,i’m not censoring my real thoughts and it’s only an insult if it’s not true but everything i said about this guy is true and plenty of people can confirm it .

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    247. Kay,

      …did the dragons cry out from the vision?

      I thought the dragons were crying out from real life, and it sort of woke her up from the vision.

      Anyway, time will tell!

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    248. I remember in the show after Missandei told Dany Grey Worm watched her bathe Dany posed the question about how much exactly the former masters cut from the unsullied, all of it or just the ability to reproduce, then they just kind of left it there not saying one way or another.

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    249. Wimsey: heh, when are prophecies ever anything but ironic? That written, can one betray oneself?You are absolutely correct that GRRM’s stories are all about internal conflicts.However, that is really about “debugging” oneself, not “betraying” oneself.

      I think you missed my point, which was that one may ‘know treason’ from the perspective of the betrayer instead of the betrayed.

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    250. Luka Nieto: I would love to write another speculative summary, and in fact early on I did, but with the many leaks and such, and now being privy to a few extra datails that have not been reported, doing that again doesn’t really make sense, sadly.

      *smacks forehead* Yeah, duh: that makes sense.

      So, I take it that you can neither confirm nor deny the flashback scene right outside of the Tower of Joy, where Ned rides up to a woman down the road sitting on a horse and holding an infant, looks at his nephew that he’s holding and then chucks that one aside to some stray wolves, saying “Letting little Aemon here live is way more trouble than its worth. *Sigh* Oh, and, Ashara: remember how you said that your brother is going to kill us once he finds out about Little Jon here? Well, I’ve got some good news and some bad news on that front….”

      😀

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    251. Firannion: I think you missed my point, which was that one may ‘know treason’ from the perspective of the betrayer instead of the betrayed.

      Ah! I assumed that you meant self betrayal. After all, isn’t to “know treason” or to “know betrayal” to have it committed against you? (At least that is how I’ve always seen it used.)

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    252. Kay,

      Luka Nieto,

      Alba Stark,

      Sue the Fury,

      I honestly have always loved Grey Worm and Missandei and their relationship. To think they were stolen away as children, been used and abused, saw themselves as property not people, didn’t say me or I but “this one” and now they have become opinionated, hell they’ve argued with Tyrion, now have their own hopes and desires and in spite of all they’ve been through managed to fall in love and possibly have a intimate act. They as people are incredibly inspiring and the actors have done the characters proud. What other people consider boring, I call a beautiful and inspiring side story.

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    253. Shipping characters, inventing romances, sex scenes–these interest me very little. And I try very hard not to predict things for the show based on what I recall from the books. And yet-romance is common in adventures, fantasy, and life, so we cannot ignore it. Two years back, I winged at length about the banality and predictability of a Jon – Dany matchup. But by now it seems pre-ordained in the show.

      1. They have similar arcs and may in fact be co-Princes that were Promised.
      2. There are many hints of such a union, though my favourite is rather subtle: Maester Aemon’s comment (which Jon overheard) that a Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing.
      3. They are both gorgeous, and will undoubtedly be physically attracted to each other.
      4. They are Ice and Fire and MUST come together.
      5. The oft-mentioned alternatives of Jon-Sansa or Jon-Arya are both non-starters. Jon has no natural affinity with Sansa, though he does with Arya. But more important, even if such pairings would have been acceptable in Westeros, GoT audiences will always consider them three siblings, which utterly rules out intra-Stark matches IRL. This true even once Jon will be revealed as part-Targ. Even if they wanted to, D&D would not risk the inevitable outcry, especially from the reactionary moral police that now seem to be in the ascendant everywhere.
      6. This series is loosely based on mediaeval history. Marriage in that period among royalty and nobility was virtually always pre-arranged for political, dynastic, or financial reasons. Dany stated she would use it to forge Westerosi alliances and Jon’s about as eligible and politically positioned as any nobleman alive. Only Jaime is his equal, but he’s the enemy and also still in love with his twin…for now,

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    254. elay,

      Jewel,

      Kit and Emilia are really good friends, she is also really close to Rose as well.
      I think many people ASSUMED they dated before he met Rose is because when GOT started Kit talked about how beautiful and funny Emilia is but that doesn’t mean it was romantic between them or anything happened, they both seem to treasure their friendship and each other that it’s natural they are happy about actually filming together after all these years.

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    255. innocence,

      Jon’s Mom,

      asoiaf fan,

      Geralt of Rivia,

      Irina Stark,

      Inga,

      Bran’s built-in White Walker GPS,

      Abbie,

      The thing about the show is they have never put in the prophecy about Dany being betrayed nor the three mounts she will ride. Obviously the show is deviating from the books even then. There just isn’t enough time to worry about that, it may mean it won’t happen in the show. In the books she’s probably gonna be in Essos longer and there are lot’s of theories about who will betray her: It could be Hidzarr people theorised he was involved with the Harpies even Barristan doesn’t trust him, people also theorised it would be Daario who was involved with the Harpies, It could be Aegon the mummer’s dragon, she was also warned I think about not trusting a lion.
      All this could happen before she ever meets Jon in the books, also in the books it’s repeated constantly that there are three heads to the dragon and if we believe spoilers from the show, that ain’t gonna happen in the show at all and it’s just in the books even though it seemed quite important the amount of times it was repeated in the books.

      In the show we shouldn’t necessarily take everything that happens in the book aka prophecies as canon for the show, even the author has said sometimes fans take the prophecies much more literal and seriously than they actually are. D&D have stated that they will have the same ending as the book but they are going a different journey then G.R.R.Martin

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    256. Mel: even the author has said sometimes fans take the prophecies much more literal and seriously than they actually are. D&D have stated that they will have the same ending as the book but they are going a different journey then G.R.R.Martin

      Well, prophecies should be taking literally. However, we should also expect the fulfillment of prophecies to be ironic: i.e., exactly what they said they would be, but not what everyone immediately assumed they would be.

      Mel: It could be Aegon the mummer’s dragon

      Well, on the show, it seems that Daeny is the mummer’s dragon: Varys has been 100% behind her for the whole while, it seems!

      As for the show “deviating” from the books, it gets back to what you cite: the same end, but different path. The best novels are awful scripts, and the best scripts are awful novels: the way in which you want to tell any given story must be different because the things that work in one medium are either ineffective or even counterproductive in the other. So, in a way, this is an analog to Carroll’s Red Queen: in order to remain the same, things have to be different.

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    257. Stannisisdead: censoring my real thoughts and it’s only an insult if it’s not true but everything i said about this guy is true and plenty of people

      ….I never criticized this site on Twitter. What?

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    258. Kay,

      I don’t understand why some people “call out” other posters on their speculation. Just because someone thinks the story line could be heading a certain way or get s gut feeling a certain character could die does not mean one needs to get all defensive on said characters behalf or accuse those people of literally wanting the story line to go the way they are guessing it might.

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    259. Anon,
      accusations of racism do carry weight, and are not pointless,

      It only carries weight if there’s evidence for it. And simply thinking a character is boring is not enough to make such an accusation. What’s offensive is to accuse someone of potential underlying racism when you know nothing about them aside from the fact that one of the fictional characters they find boring happens to be a person of color.

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    260. Luka Nieto,
      I wrote that book fanaticism and a lessened empathy towards “the other” are two main reasons some people don’t get attached to these two.

      I know it’s stating the obvious but I don’t understand the mindset on the last point and find it hard to believe there are many people out there who cannot empathize with another human being just because the color of their skin is different. We’re all human beings who share same basic emotions no matter what language we speak, culture we live in, melanin content of skin. None of us asked to be born, let alone choosing who we are born to. I mean, I think that if someone not being attached to Greyworm or Missandei is simply because they are minor characters relative to many others and were not fleshed out enough. For ADHD folks empathy energy gets reserved for the few not the many and that’s where we would focus. For instance I’m hung up on just a few of the characters journeys, the ones I got to know the best. If MissWorm were real people sure I would have general empathy for their joys and hardships.

      Never read the books either.

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    261. ygritte,

      I don’t understand why you need to “call out” my comments either or accuse me of getting “defensive”! Policing another poster’s comments is certainly not what I am indulging in. I expressed a curiosity about another poster’s opinion of a character’s fate, especially given that this fate repeatedly seems to be “death in childbirth”, when the character is not pregnant, and apparently believes she can’t have children.

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    262. Kay,

      I just see people get defensive with each other for doing the only thing we can do during off season, which is speculation, and been accused myself, for being a “hater” because of where I thought they might go with the story. I mean, it’s not just you. But it gets old.

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    263. ygritte,

      Thank you, Ygritte. Racism (or chauvinistic nationalism which is more topical for my region) is indeed a serious problem that hurts real people, and when people get accused of racism just for the alleged lack of investment in tertiary fictional characters, real racism passes unnoticed and unaddressed. BTW, the show itself was accused in alleged racism because of having too few black characters, as far as I remember. It could be funny, but it’s not.

      That said, I’m really looking forwards the further development of the Missandei’s & Grey Worm’s story: not their sex scenes, but rather their characters. They were slaves, now they are free but freedom is not that fun: it means making own choices and carrying personal responsibility for them including wrong ones. And pretty often former slaves start longing for masters whom they could blame for all their own wrongdoings and failures.

      I don’t think the show will have time to address this issue, but if it does I would be really happy.

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    264. Angie: WOW so the huge battle that Emilia was talking about is going to take 1 month to film.So it’s going to be big as battle of bastards or even BIGGER ?

      I still find it odd, the Battle might be bigger, but Drogon should make it short.

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    265. Inga: That said, I’m really looking forwards the further development of the Missandei’s & Grey Worm’s story: not their sex scenes, but rather their characters.

      Just as with a good action sequence, a good sex scene is about the character and should involve character development. They are not antithetical.

      Funnily enough, Game of Thrones, especially in the early seasons, passes this “meaningfulness test” more often for action sequences than for sex scenes, which is sad. Fortunately it’s been getting better these last few seasons.

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    266. Mel,

      Thanks for the insight, Mel. Of course we shouldn’t. There are two separate entities and even though D&D have said multiple times that the ending will be the same one in both the books and the series, it’s just the getting there that changes, even if GoT ends before A Dream of Spring is released, the fans will buy the book to find out the fates of other characters, because of sheer curiosity for the flow of events. Of course, that excludes the main characters. Let’s say for instance, that Dany’s prophecy doesn’t come true and she lives ’till the very end to sit on the Throne without experiencing this betrayal for love, it doesn’t mean it won’t occur in the book, maybe the traitor in question just fails in carrying out his task though the intent can still be there, loud and vivid. I try not to take these things too seriously.
      I for one think she’s experienced the three betrayals from Mirri, Doreah and Jorah, as we have with the first two mounts and the first two fires and if D&D choose to carry the prophecy out and complete it, next we’ll see the third mount and the third fire, both linked to Jon.

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    267. Oh, it would have been perfect for Highgarden, barely any CGI needed… but The Rock??? No, no, no… it should have been exactly that, a huge rock, a cliff full of caverns and halls… Whatever, who cares anymore?? After that stupid castle they gave the Tarlys…

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    268. a whole month filming this huge battle with Dany..omg, i honestly can’t wait! It will be so beautiful..for sure, BotB style!

      So Grey Worm is for sure a goner on S7 lol, this sex scene with Missandei is just a confirmation of this.

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    269. ygritte:
      Anon,
      accusations of racism do carry weight, and are not pointless,

      It only carries weight if there’s evidence for it. And simply thinking a character is boring is not enough to make such an accusation. What’s offensive is to accuse someone of potential underlying racism when you know nothing about them aside from the fact that one of the fictional characters they find boring happens to be a person of color.

      You’re putting up quite the fight on someone else’s behalf, but it’s a silly fight:

      Evidence is a legal matter, so, if a racism accusation ever goes to trial, how do you propose to gather such evidence?

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    270. Sue the Fury:
      Anon,

      You know what sucks more than that?

      Racism.

      In the time I’ve been on this site, I’ve seen people with hardcore biases for and against characters, plots, writers, directors, costume design, hairstyles, pretty much everything. What I haven’t seen is racism. This is one of the few sites to have pleasantly surprised me in that regard. I don’t mind the Missandei/Greyworm romance, some scenes are well done, some a little stilted. I like both actors. Some people don’t. I’ve never heard anyone say or hint that it’s due to race…until you implied it. There are so many different backgrounds and colours on the show, and I really feel that your statement is unfair. Is that me being naive? Maybe. But this group seems pretty darn inclusive if you ask me, in regards to how characters with different looks and sexualities are viewed. I guess people just look at things differently.

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    271. Pigeon,

      In the time I’ve been on this site, I’ve seen people with hardcore biases for and against characters, plots, writers, directors, costume design, hairstyles, pretty much everything. What I haven’t seen is racism. This is one of the few sites to have pleasantly surprised me in that regard.

      My ultra deluxe model bullshit detector is going haywire:

      You’ve seen racism at other sites. Are you saying that that racism wasn’t directed toward GW & Missy? This is a cool site, but is there something unique about the site that makes racists, specifically, avoid it?

      And is there something specific about the others that attract racists to them?

      I’m afraid this isn’t a rational argument.

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    272. Anon:
      Pigeon,

      My ultra deluxe model bullshit detector is going haywire:

      You’ve seen racism at other sites. Are you saying that that racism wasn’t directed toward GW & Missy?This is a cool site, but is there something unique about the site that makes racists, specifically, avoid it?

      And is there something specific about the others that attract racists to them?

      I’m afraid this isn’t a rational argument.

      I’m not sure what you’re seeing as an argument. I don’t belong to other GoT sites, so I have no idea what people there say. I was simply saying that this particular site has seemed pretty mature when it comes to race and character’s backgrounds. It’s not like going to 4chan or something where people throw around slurs like they think it’s cool. Sure, we argue about stupid shit here, but it’s a bit insulting to suggest that those who don’t like a storyline are racist simply because the characters happen to not be white. I don’t think anyone cries racism when people say Dorne sucks, because it’s pretty obvious that it’s because the Dorne storyline has been 95% shit.

      Sick of labels and insinuations, particularly when there are actual issues, like a couple of people here who outright insult members of the site (ya know, real people, not fictional characters) and get a free pass with it.

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    273. I’m not sure what you’re seeing as an argument. I don’t belong to other GoT sites, so I have no idea what people there say.

      It’s not like going to 4chan or something where people throw around slurs like they think it’s cool.

      I’m not sure if you’re joking…you must be. Heh…good one.

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    274. I’ve been on this site since it split off from the other (which I occasionally peep at). I haven’t detected any overt or even subtle racism here. We’re united under the GoT banner. Occasionally there’s some sexism, usually in the form of push-back against celebration of bad-ass or empowered female characters, but even that is rare. The prurient interest in sex, which is certainly served by HBO, is understandable. After all, much of the interest in actual British history, especially royal families, revolves around their sexual behaviour. I think a sex scene between Grey Worm and Missandei is inevitable, though unnecessary, done mainly to satisfy fan curiosity. That’s all well and good, but this year’s incessant focus on Spanish filming does SEEM to imply that the Northern story line, which now includes all of my favourite characters besides Tyrion, is being shunted aside. Five minutes of a Grey Worm – Missandei sex scene, or frankly almost any other needless sex scene, could be better used to enrich the northern story line. The Starks especially should not be marginalised.

      And everyone, please please stop calling her “Missy”. That nickname has a lot of unfavourable connotations and is certainly disrespectful. Yes, her name is hard to spell, but so are many other GoT names and we all stumble our way through them unless George gave us a nickname. Thank God for “Dany”.

      Luka, I share Alex G’s admiration for your excellent writing. Half of my acquaintances are well-educated native Spanish speakers (from many countries). None of them writes as well as you, though a few come close.

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    275. Stark Raven’ Rad: That’s all well and good, but this year’s incessant focus on Spanish filming does SEEM to imply that the Northern story line, which now includes all of my favourite characters besides Tyrion, is being shunted aside.

      Spanish filming takes so much focus because it’s the one that leaks the most. Obviously, the Northern storyline is being filmed in Northern Ireland, both at remote locations and at their closed-off sets. You can’t expect much news to come out of there, I’m afraid. Every year people are afraid the Northern storyline will be shunned, just because of the fewer leaks that come from it. Every year, especially last year, they were wrong. Granted, this time it could be smaller… For Winterfell alone, mostly because there are fewer characters involved there, but a lot of stuff will happen in the North, I assure you.

      Stark Raven’ Rad: Luka, I share Alex G’s admiration for your excellent writing. Half of my acquaintances are well-educated native Spanish speakers (from many countries). None of them writes as well as you, though a few come close.

      AlexG:
      Luka Nieto,

      Luka,your english is sooooo good!!!!! I´d say bordering on perfect! It never stops to amaze me it´s not your mother tongue ?

      Thank you both! I’m a translator, so I’d better speak the language well 😛

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