Game of Thrones Season 8 Dragonpit shoot finishes in Seville with cast and extras!

King's Landing Dragonpit 7x07 (4)

When we reported on several cast members likely having wrapped at Itálica in Seville, we wondered whether that meant the shoot had wrapped prematurely or it would continue with a reduced cast until its scheduled end this weekend. Now we know they are gone, but main cast members may have filmed as late as yesterday morning!

Los Siete Reinos reports that the shoot officially wrapped in the early hours of yesterday. We don’t know for sure who was involved, but Kit Harington and Jacob Anderson at the very least appeared to be there. However, they soon after left: by the middle of the day, they were back at Stansted, the London airport from which they flew to Spain last week. Kit Harington, Sophie Turner, and Gwendoline Christie can be clearly distinguished in the photo, though some of their other co-stars (is that John Bradley?) may be there too:

Los Siete Reinos also reports rumors of Emilia Clarke‘s coming arrival in Spain. This is not confirmed in the least, but it’s possible she could film her parts (her close-ups, anyway) after everyone else has already left, since she was quite busy during this entire week promoting Solo: A Star Wars Story in Los Angeles and Cannes. We’ll have to wait and see whether this pans out, but we should know soon enough, as the rumors suggest she should arrive soon and filming was supposed to cease by the end of the week.

This chaotic schedule, with actors coming and going throughout the week, never all of them together, suggests a different kind of Dragonpit scenes from last season, but something definitely was shot for season eight, besides likely behind the scenes material. After all, it wasn’t just the cast who were there, but about 40 extras as well, who portrayed Unsullied soldiers. If this is news to you, that’s because there was no open casting call for this shoot, as the Spanish subcontractor ModExpoR relied on their regular extras, who can be seen here celebrating the end of the shoot:

Photo by crcadierno on Instagram (now removed)

Photo by crcadierno on Instagram (now removed)

That’s a wrap for Spain! Game of Thrones will never again return to Spain, and soon we’ll be able to say the same thing about everywhere else: with only a month or two left in production, it appears filming will now be contained in Northern Ireland (Hafþór Björnsson was recently there, for example, shooting scenes as the Mountain). As you may know, we are particularly curious about that King’s Landing set at the show’s Belfast HQ, where shooting has already started. The scenes there promise to be quite explosive!

146 responses

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    1. “That’s a wrap for Spain! Game of Thrones will never again return to Spain, and soon we’ll be able to say the same thing about everywhere else”

      *Sniffles and sheds a tear or two* Oh, uh, excuse me, I’ve got something in my eye.

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    2. jack:
      Someone else was saying that one of the people in the crowd might be Edmure Tully (Tobais Menzies).

      I saw that, and I see who they mean. It could be him, but it’s not such a close match that I’d say it’s him for sure, not by a long shot. If the photo was of a higher quality, I’d feel more sure about speculating it’s him.

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    3. Luka Nieto,

      I’m loving this off-season! The more we learn, the less we know! Cast sightings only add to the confusion. (Robyn Arryn? Jaqen? The Waif? And possibly Edmure “Archer Extraordinaire” Tully?)

      I am assuming the really pivotal scenes with the really critical characters are being filmed inside the Belfast studios.

      As it should be.

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    4. First thought: Damn- Stansted is a few miles away from me, in fact I’m there later today to catch a flight!!

      Second thought: Did HBO seriously put the main cast of their best show on a Ryanair flight?? Loosen up the purse strings, guys! 🙈😂😂

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    5. I like to think it’s behind scenes material, but Sophia Turner tweet a very emotional goodbye style tweet two days ago. So, I am very confused.

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    6. This is not confirmed in the least, but it’s possible she could film her parts (her close-ups, anyway) after everyone else has already left…

      Like Charles Dance in S5E1. 😉

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    7. Reis:
      I like to think it’s behind scenes material, but Sophia Turner tweet a very emotional goodbye style tweet two days ago. So, I am very confused.

      If this comes out as vicious, it’s not meant for you specifically, don’t worry; this is just a theory that bothers me so much. You don’t need extras for behind the scenes interviews. You certainly don’t need almost 40 Unsullied extras! Or, you know, the many crew trucks we saw, which weren’t there just for show. Also, I know this is an expensive production, but it’d be the height of wastefulness to rent the amphitheater of Itálica, making all the necessary arrangements with the local government, and even building the platform set, just for a few interviews. Why not film that in one of their many completely immersive sets, whether it’s the throne room or perhaps the immense new King’s Landing set in Belfast, which would be easier for the cast to get to anyway?

      This “documentary” rumor has gotten completely out of control. I’m sure that, with so many cast members together, they filmed special behind the scenes material for the Blu-Ray, but if anyone truly believes that’s the only reason they did all of this, I don’t know what world they’re living in, seriously.

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    8. Joe Weaver,

      How do you sneak into a city from a place that is already inside the city? Unless there’s a passage in the Dragon Pit who takes you outside the city walls.

      But anyway. It doesn’t make sense sneaking into the city when we already know that the gates collapsed and the watchtowers are blow up.

      And I’m with Luka. The documentary bit doesn’t make sense when you cast 40 extras for unsullied roles and bring the body doubles of the actors for stands-in.

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    9. Apollo,

      Be thankful this isn’t an AMC show, i heard some stories about them not offering even catering for some of their shows and cast members having to bring food from home or out town, they are dirt cheap as hell .

        Quote  Reply

    10. Luka Nieto,

      I’ve watched enough Terror lately, and Casino Royal, to say that’s a damn good dopelganger if that’s not him.

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    11. Jacob Anderson and unsullied extras filming with Kit is interesting food for thought. I imagine that with all the various people who have come and gone that the dragonpit was used for several scenes. I can’t really picture how it all ties in (and I’m looking forward to being surprised). If the dragonpit is outside the gates in the show (I know it’s not in the books), it may play host to a team Dany/Jon base camp while they try to get into King’s Landing (presuming they have fled south after winterfell is presumably destroyed). The fact they only used unsullied extras makes a ceremony seem less likely – unless they can CGI townsfolk (or whoever is left post end of the world) into the background… I love he speculation this year. Last year was ruined by the leaks; I’m so glad we haven’t had any this year.

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    12. Che,

      Do you think that Cersei would have agreed to a parlay outside King´s Landing walls with thousands of dothraki and unsullied close? Daenerys entire army was last season at the gates of the city.

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    13. I hold to me theory that Sophie’s bittersweet tweet involves the final material since that’s what they were filming.

      Looks like she’s still filming.

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    14. Ëonwë:
      BeardedOnion,

      Missing the hysteria with her not filming and people going crazy about her character death. Now Emilia has taken that role.

      Sophie not being spotted in belfast was nothing to worry about. The vast majority of the cast hadn’t been spotted there really during the 55 night shoot.

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    15. BeardedOnion: Sophie not being spotted in belfast was nothing to worry about.

      I’m not and wasn’t worried one tiny bit and it won’t effect me at all if she is finished and doesn’t show up again. 😉

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    16. Clob: I’m not and wasn’t worried one tiny bit and it won’t effect me at all if she is finished and doesn’t show up again.😉

      I too find myself devoid of concern in any great amount.

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    17. Che: The fact they only used unsullied extras makes a ceremony seem less likely –

      Personally, I think that makes it seem more likely.

      You’ve speculated that perhaps Jon/Dany’s crew are using the Dragonpit as a base camp during their assault on King’s Landing. And I’ve seen a number of other theories postulated that suggest they’re there while action is occurring elsewhere.

      But all of these sorts of scenarios would probably require a broader range of soldiers and extras. For example, would there be no Northerners, Dothraki, KotV, Ironborn, etc at a military base camp?

      Whereas a ceremony of some sort could be a deliberately private/muted affair, attended only by nobles and guarded by a specific company of soldiers.

      Plus. there are also production issues to consider. Would the producers be granted permission to march a few hundred extras into a sensitive historic site, I wonder? Would hiring hundreds of local extras to shoot a key character’s funeral or coronation not be a major secrecy risk?

      And what about the visual aspect of the shoot? Personally, I thought the Dragonpit looked pretty small last season, even with only a handful of people present. Cramming a few hundred extras into the site might undermine the illusion that this location was supposed to house massive dragons once upon a time.

      Anyway, those are just a few reasons why I don’t think the limited presence rules out a major ceremony or event of some kind.

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    18. This filming season has been so long I’ve forgotten… Have there been any signs of Marc Rissmann (Harry Strickland) around filming locations yet? All I can find is the stuff about his casting.

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    19. mau:
      Clob,

      No. He wasn’t seen at all.

      Hmm… I guess that could be due to a few things eh; not as recognizable by GoT fans to have been “caught,” he’s just really sneaky and/or his filming hasn’t happened yet. I was just momentarily curious.

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    20. Why should Harry Strickland come up for the last season???
      In the show he was never mentioned before, and it sounds strange to bring him up that late.

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    21. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man: Personally, I think that makes it seem more likely.

      all of these sorts of scenarios would probably require a broader range of soldiers and extras. For example, would there be no Northerners, Dothraki, KotV, Ironborn, etc at a military base camp?

      per previous reports, it’s likely they’re all dead, after being crushed at Winterfell

      “And what about the visual aspect of the shoot? Personally, I thought the Dragonpit looked pretty small last season, even with only a handful of people present. Cramming a few hundred extras into the site might undermine the illusion that this location was supposed to house massive dragons once upon a time”.

      Itálica is actually massive, and much larger than it appeared in S7. The amphitheatre actually extends way beyond the pit area, and aerial shots actually give more of an accurate perspective of the sheer scale of the site.

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    22. a bit off topic, sorry: can anyone read what’s written in the bottom right part of Björnson’s instagram picture?

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    23. Apollo,

      Yet we also got pics of

      Corpses of dothraki and unsullied who died in the north. So we can´t discard that soldiers from the north or other parts of Westeros are in King´s Landing.

      We saw Kit in Dubrovnik alongside two extras dressed like rivermen soldiers.

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    24. Emilia’s tour promoting Solo movie is not over. She will go back to US next week to appear on several talk shows and in the 3rd week of June She wiil be in Japan for Solo premiere.

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    25. A Dutch program that talk a lot about television shows and other drama of actors (how do you call those programs??). But there was a piece about got and about a podcast of Emilia Clarke. She stated that some things are filmed right now that are not in her script that she received from the makers, she got a script with an ending but things are shot that make no sense to her. It looks like the filming of different endings is in fact true, and not 1 actor knows which ending is the true ending until its shown on television.

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    26. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man:
      Kevin1989,

      She’s lying.

      Why would she lie about this? And it’s not uncommon. Many shows in the past did multiple ending shootings and they’re were more low budget than got. Lost did it, sopranos did it. And many more. We can assume they only will shoot a character interaction scene multiple times. Like who will survive and who not. I don’t think they will shoot multiple action scenes only scenes where actors are needed. (back in season 1 they included some extra scenes like that because they didn’t cost much, like the famous cercei Robert Marriage scene)

      Multiple actors has stated there will be multiple endings filmed. HBO boss stated it. Look at the last couple of days of shooting. It just doesn’t make a lot of sense.

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    27. All I know is if they do end up filming multiple endings I hope they feature all of them on the blue-ray for season 8 instead of burying them.

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    28. Kevin1989: Why would she lie about this?

      Because it’s an easier way of convincing people that they won’t truly know the ending until it airs than actually producing multiple alternative endings at great effort and expense.

      You appear to have been convinced.

      Multiple actors lied.

      The HBO boss lied.

      The last couple of days’ filming makes no sense because we don’t know what they filmed or what the S8 plot is yet. Naturally, it will all make sense once it airs.

      Filming multiple endings is actually pretty uncommon. Although it’s become a pretty common conspiracy theory among fandoms.

      As far as I’m aware, they didn’t shoot multiple endings to The Sopranos. Maybe there were rumours at the time, just like there are currently for GoT. But I’ve never heard David Chase say as much.

      The only “multiple endings” they shot for Lost, as far as I’m aware, was concealing a certain character’s death at the end of one season via a simple one-shot actor switcheroo. They didn’t film multiple endings to the entire show, as far as I’m aware. Although, they may have filmed some extras for home media.

      The notion that these massive TV shows are blowing vast sums on seriously filming multiple endings to the show, just to prevent some viewers finding out the ending to shows that they’re bound to watch regardless, is pretty far-fetched at the best of times.

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    29. Ramsay's 20th Good Man: As far as I’m aware, they didn’t shoot multiple endings to The Sopranos. Maybe there were rumours at the time, just like there are currently for GoT. But I’ve never heard David Chase say as much.

      I don’t have a horse in this race, but they did in fact shoot multiple endings to the Sopranos.

      https://www.cinemablend.com/television/Why-Sopranos-Creator-Shot-Completely-Different-Ending-131587.html

      https://www.lifeandstylemag.com/posts/sopranos-ending-133971

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    30. The whole multiple endings stories just makes me think of the movie Clue (“now here’s what REALLY happened …”) 😉

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    31. Mr Derp,

      Fair enough. You learn something new every day.

      Although, it’s worth noting that in one of those articles it points out that one of the supposed “alternative endings” was just an alternative shot of an extra advancing on Tony in the final scene, which was ultimately cut because it was too unambiguous.

      Not exactly consistent with a grand conspiracy to mislead fans.

      The other article quotes David Chase and he can’t even remember what the supposed alternative ending he filmed consisted of. Again, it sounds more like a few alternative lines or shots to muddy the water, rather than the sort of great subterfuge people are suggesting D&D are up to. Flying cast members out to Spain to shoot scenes that they’ve even kept secret from some of the other actors.

      I think far-fetched is the appropriate way to describe the notion.

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    32. I bet the reason HBO is forcing them to use this “multiple ending” BS in their interviews is because they don’t want fans to glean anything from the actors facial expression, or voice tone, or anything… Best just to say “Ending? What ending? I don’t know anything about ending” Maybe they will film a few fake scenes, but no way the cast does not know EXACTLY how it ends lol.

      On just a simple performance level, these actors need to be fully aware of the final trajectory their character will be going on in order to perform at their peak for the last season. Not knowing the ending is out of the question in that regard.

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    33. I think I fall somewhere in the middle here. I doubt they’d go out of their way to shoot a fake ending that would cost additional time, money, and resources, though I don’t think it would be out of the question for them to shoot different takes. Especially when you consider how long post-production will take, which will give leakers a long time to work with to try and uncover the real ending.

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    34. Mr Derp,

      It all depends on what fans are expecting will be the final scene. For those who are hoping for a wedding (count me out), it’s easy enough to film alternative scenes when the bride lifts her veil and reveals she is; (a) Sansa; or (b) Dany; or (c) Melisandre; or (d) 150 year-old geezer Melisandre (at which point the groom commits seppuku).

      Seriously, I’ve never heard of a show or movie filming multiple endings to throw off inquisitive fans. I have been aware of several movies that bombed so badly with test audiences because of crappy endings that the producers realized that unless they hired a script doctor and replaced the director and filmed a different ending, they’d be out on Hollywood Boulevard standing at intersections with “Will Work for Food. God Bless” cardboard signs.

      Usually it’s some new director or screenwriter who thinks it’s “edgy” to make a “dark” movie with an ending that shocks the audience. Like “let’s kill off the adorable love interest in the last five minutes because … no reason.” Or “hey! Let’s have the cute little kid die at the end…so we can play Leonard Cohen’s “Hallelujah” or Sarah McClachlan’s “Ángel” over the end credits.”*

      I suppose it’s harder to make a dramatically indelible ending without killing off a character. It can be done.

      * I’m looking at you,

      “Pay it Forward”

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    35. Well, if there were fake/alternate endings made for The Sopranos, someone must’ve run them
      through a meat grinder in North Jersey, because they have yet to surface. 🙂

      As the last episode contains scenes outside of Bada Bing, it would be easy to claim some alternate ending was also shot there. Likewise, the crew might well have produced a scene of The Man in Members’ Only Jacket emerge from the Men’s Room, and the director cut it from the final product, for the reason given.

      Also, as we can reasonably expect more material to be produced for GoT than used, the very existence of such material will be grist for the rumor mill next year, especially amongst the faction of fandom (which will be large) who do not like the real ending.

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    36. Interesting quote from Emilia:

      “I don’t know that I even do now,” she said of knowing the ending. “I’m being serious. I think they’re filming a bunch of stuff and they’re not telling us. I’m being serious. I’m being deadly serious. I think that they don’t even trust us. There’s lots of different endings that could happen; I think we’re doing all of them and we aren’t being told which is actually what’s going to happen.”

      http://time.com/5281040/emilia-clarke-daenerys-game-of-thrones-ending/

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    37. Undead Elephant,

      Now it all makes sense. Daenerys will abdicate, Jon will decline the throne just like Maester Aemon, and by popular demand Arya will reluctantly ascend the throne for the greater good. Wardeness of the North Sansa Stark will be slightly piqued that her little sister will outrank her, but she’ll quickly get over it and become steadfastly loyal. NK will bend the knee. Brienne will finally have someone worth serving. There will be no weddings and no baby dramas. Cersei will see “that little animal” Arya on the throne, start crying her ass off, and have a cerebral hemorrhage. Gendry will get a royal pardon for setting Melisandre on fire and launching her in a trebuchet into the sky; then he’ll successfully complete rehab for his meth habit and bad haircut.

      By royal proclamation, the word “bittersweet” will henceforth be outlawed.

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    38. Ramsay's 20th Good Man,

      The multiple endings of sopranos are online you can watched them. and the cost of mulitple endings are almost zero. The cast are paid per episode means, they are free for multiple endings. Same for the directors and writers. They cost nothing.

      other costs may be sound, they cost nothing because they don’t need to make another sound effect. Same for visual Effects. They don’t need to process what they shot.

      They only costs they have is:
      – Location
      – maybe the cost for flying over there and some food.

      Everything else is paid per episode, and only sound effect and visual effect is paid per scene and they aren’t needed.

      and the HBO boss never lied to us, the Jon part he said he knew nothing about. and that Kit lied there is logical, and we all knew he was going back and he knew that. This doesn’t made sense to lie about, because there’s no gain is they lie. With Jon the gain was, not losing Jon. And there are some things a boss can never lie about.

      I looked up other shows that did multiple endings:
      – How I met your mother (if a cheap show like that can do it, GoT can do it)
      – sex in the city (who cares?)
      – seinfeld
      – Sopranos and the list goes on and on.

      The scenes don’t have to be long, here I have 4 versions of an ending in my head.
      – We’re at a meeting with the survivors, Jon is the only survivor of the starks. Dany is there. Tyrion is there. Yara is there, Sam is there. Everyone else is dead. (4 minutes scene)
      – All the starks survived, except Jon. Dany is dead too. Jaime survived instead of Tyrion, and Theon is there. (4 minute scene)
      – the bad guys wins: Cercei, Euron, GC are there nobody else. (2 minutes)
      – NK wins (2 minutes tops)

      this can be shot in 2 days because there’s no action needed.

      Ten Bears,

      D for me, the horror for me one the grooms face will be priceless. Or start with C and end with D on the wedding night, halfway through Mel takes off her necklace.

      that ending of that movie you put as a spoiler, very depressing ending for me, it’s funny how an ending like that works with one movie and not the next. And I think the bigger horror there is not the ending but maybe the older lead, I hope nothing happen there behind the scenes.

      If you want to see a great alternative ending, look up the one from breaking bad that’s on the bluray box.

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    39. Ten Bears:
      Undead Elephant,

      Now it all makes sense. Daenerys will abdicate, Jon will decline the throne just like Maester Aemon, and by popular demand Arya will reluctantly ascend the throne for the greater good. Wardeness of the North Sansa Stark will be slightly piqued that her little sister will outrank her, but she’ll quickly get over it and become steadfastly loyal. NK will bend the knee. Brienne will finally have someone worth serving. There will be no weddings and no baby dramas. Cersei will see “that little animal” Arya on the throne, start crying her ass off, and have a cerebral hemorrhage. Gendry will get a royal pardon for setting Melisandre on fire and launching her in a trebuchet into the sky; then he’ll successfully complete rehab for his meth habit and bad haircut.

      By royal proclamation, the word “bittersweet” will henceforth be outlawed.

      Best ending ever.

        Quote  Reply

    40. kevin1989,

      1. Give me a link to the alternate Sopranos endings, because all info I’ve read says they’ve never seen the light of day and I just searched Youtube and there are only a bunch of fake, fan-made alternative endings. Maybe they’re what you’re talking about.

      2. The cost of filming multiple endings is not zero. You’ve discounted almost all production costs simply to suit your argument.

      Emilia’s suggestion, which you apparently agreed with, is that the scenes they were filming in Spain were ones for an alternate ending that she has not seen and will not feature in.

      That means they flew all of the actors out there, hired the location, paid all the location fees and taxes, paid hundreds of crew and extras, paid for accommodation, etc etc etc etc. to shoot an alternate ending that may never see the light of day and which, according to you, they won’t even bother to complete in post-production.

      That’s simply nonsense, I’m afraid.

      3. The other shows you’ve mentioned are nowhere near as costly or complicated to produce as GoT. Two of them were studio-based comedies, for goodness sake. Of course they could film an alternative ending for such a show if they wanted. Most of them simply involved a different edit (How I Met Your Mother) or alternative lines (Sex and the City and Seinfeld) anyway.

      The mooted notion that they have been filming scenes in Spain that do not appear in Emilia’s script and therefore constitute part of some grand plot to film multiple endings to throw off an already captive audience is far-fetched at best.

      Why would they lie? As I’ve already explained, it’s cheaper than actually filming alternative endings and works just as well at throwing people off the scent. As evidenced by your apparent insistence on believing that there’s some grand conspiracy afoot and it’s impossible to know if what they’ve been shooting is for the real ending or for some fake alternative.

      Might they shoot something simple and fun for the DVD extras during an existing shoot, such as sticking a crown on Robin Arryn or Jaqen H’ghar or the Night King, and label it an “alternate ending”? Perhaps.

      Did they drag everybody to Spain to shoot a bunch of material that Emilia is unaware of, which constitutes an alternate ending that will only be revealed in the final edit?

      No.

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    41. Undead Elephant,

      I feel like HBO’s strategy this year, much more so than most, is just to increase the amount of noise out there so it’s harder for fans to suss out legitimate information. There are plenty of contradictory statements from actors out there, for instance, and from HBO itself for that matter. I mean, there was a cast-wide script read-through in July of last year where everyone broke down in tears, etc. after reading “end of series”. And earlier this year, Maisie emphatically declared that she knows the ending and there won’t be multiple endings shot. Emilia herself admitted to reading the scripts and driving around “in a daze” earlier this year as well.

      Also, remember that news story that came out before they started shooting where the actors were not going to receive physical copies of the scripts? That was clearly misinformation.

      So I don’t really know what to make of Emilia’s comments, honestly. Maybe there’s some truth in them, as in they could be filming some alternate scenes on a smaller scale. Or maybe she doesn’t know the details of certain characters’ arcs that aren’t within Dany’s periphery. But I have a hard time believing the main cast is truly in the dark as far as the ending goes. As someone else pointed out, they have to know their character’s arc in order to plan it out over the season, and that’s exactly what Maisie talks about here (3:56):

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    42. I would really be surprised if Dany dies after all. Almost since the beggining I thought that she will die. Dany and many characters around her were talking how she would one day rule Westeros. I thought that was a clear evidence that that would never happen. I thought she will die like a hero.

      But since there were many hints in S7 that she will have a child I then thought that there is no way that she will die, since there is not enough time for her to give birth and then die.

      I’m not saying that the fact that she won’t be part of the Dragonpit scene(s) means that she will die. But it feels that that scene will have a lot of characters and it will be in the last episode. So it has to be something important. And for Daenerys not to be part of that is very strange if she is alive.

      I don’t know really. I am confused lol.

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    43. mau,

      As others have said there are plenty of reasons for why Emilia Clarke isn’t there, she could be shooting in a studio in Belfast, Dany could be giving birth in the castle,maybe she’s injured and she can’t attend etc., the fact that Lena Headey was there is the thing that makes me doubt this the most though, there is no fucking way on this earth that Cersei outlives Dany even by one episode .

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    44. I don’t agree with some of the ideas to explain away her absence from what may be scene or scenes in the final episode. These are definite options to explain her absence that don’t involve death, but I think each one has some weaknesses in it. I don’t know why she wasn’t there. Perhaps it will in fact wind up the most obvious one.

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    45. Cutango,

      But why would they write that Dany is injured or giving birth and not able to be there if this is really the big meeting after the war? She could give birth after this scene.

      I just don’t think that D&D would reject the possibility to have their cast togehter one last time. And this is not “either-or” situation for them, from the writing perspective. They could have both. Dany at that big meeting and then Dany giving birth.

      I think the only question is when this Dragonpit meeting takes place? If it takes place after the war I think Dany is dead for sure. If it takes place during the war it is possible that she is fighting somewhere.

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    46. We don’t even know if what takes place at the Dragonpit is a “meeting”. At least not in the way it was for S7.

      As Luka states in the article, the filming that took place here doesn’t seem to be similar to that of last season

      This chaotic schedule, with actors coming and going throughout the week, never all of them together, suggests a different kind of Dragonpit scenes from last season, but something definitely was shot for season eight, besides likely behind the scenes material.

      As I’ve stated repeated, Lena, Nikolaj, and Kit are big question marks. Did they film? With Kit, we know the time that he arrived on Monday. We have pictures of him hanging out at the pool Tuesday morning, and then meeting with fans that same afternoon. Now L7R is suggesting that he may have filmed Wednesday morning with Jacob, but that begs the question if that’s a completely different scene all together.

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    47. It’s all puzzling but the thing I find most puzzling of all is the appearance of Jaquen (sp) and the Waif. The only interpretation of their appearance at the end, that I can think of, is the dying moments of Arya, as she remembers the past just before shuffling off this mortal coil. If Charles Dance was there too, I’d be completely convinced that this was the case.

        Quote  Reply

    48. mau,

      Well like you said, we don’t know if this is the big meeting after the war, the only thing we know is that it’s in the last episode since D&D are the only directors there, and even so it’s not like they haven’t moves scenes from different episodes previously in the show, certainly even HBO knows we are going to speculate it’s from the final episode and might swerve us . Either way, jumping to conclusions is not a good thing, you would think people would learn this after Grey Worm and Missandei not being dead last season like speculated but i guess not .

        Quote  Reply

    49. Cutango:
      mau,
      Either way, jumping to conclusions is not a good thing, you would think people would learn this after Grey Worm and Missandei not being dead last season like speculatedbut i guess not .

      I’m not jumping to conclusions. It’s just fan to speculate.

        Quote  Reply

    50. mau,

      Cutango: Either way, jumping to conclusions is not a good thing, you would think people would learn this after Grey Worm and Missandei not being dead last season like speculated but i guess not .

      Cutango: there is no fucking way on this earth that Cersei outlives Dany even by one episode .

      Didn’t you know that cutango is the only person around here who’s permitted to jump to conclusions? 😉 How dare you!

        Quote  Reply

    51. Cutango:

      Well like you said, we don’t know if this is the big meeting after the war, the only thing we know is that it’s in the last episode since D&D are the only directors there, and even so it’s not like they haven’t moves scenes from different episodes previously in the show, certainly even HBO knows we are going to speculate it’s from the final episode and might swerve us .

      I’m not sure we even know that.. D&D are the only directors that have been seen there, but directors are hardly ever spotted hanging out with the cast. And if they are, they’re usually never recognized by fans.

      I remember during the filming of S6, for the longest time, we all thought Jack Bender would be directing the Tower of Joy fight because he was seen near Castle de Zafra (an hour away I believe). And thus we thought we would see the fight in 6×05, yet it ended up being in 6×03 with Daniel Sackheim directing it.

      So yes, our best guess at the moment is that the filming in Seville is for 8×07, but our best guess isn’t always right. Unless someone knows about David Nutter and Miguel Sapochnik’s whereabouts during this time frame.

        Quote  Reply

    52. Mr Derp,

      I don’t know what’s your problem with me, i’ve ignored you until now because it’s not worth wasting my time with someone like you but i wasn’t reffering to mau in that comment and also saying that Cersei won’t outlive Dany isn’t jumping to conclusions, it’s just common sense, maybe instead of picking up fragments of my comments like someone who doesn’t have a life, maybe you actually try to contribute to the discussion and argue why i was wrong .

        Quote  Reply

    53. mau,

      I wasn’t talking about you, i was talking about orange who has a well known hate boner for Dany and anyone who doesn’t think she’s going to die is delusional in his mind . Sorry if i gave you the wrong impression by the reply being to you .

        Quote  Reply

    54. The more I think of it, the more it looks like they have been filming the scene of the mass funeral at the Dragonpit. Tryrion and Sansa (and maybe some other characters including representatives of the Faceless Men) would be jus witnessing that but the main cast may be just lying on a pyre for close shots. That would explain both the chaotic appearance and disappearance of the actors and the presence of all these different characters in the same scene: Jaime & Cersei, Jon & the Night King, Grey Worm, maybe, even Dany, etc. And that would be a very fitting end to the story: valar morghulis, costs of war etc. However, there still a chance that, even if Jon & Dany, they will be resurrected and come out of the pyre unburned to deal with the consequences:)

        Quote  Reply

    55. Jay Targ,

      You may also be right, although considering that so many of the cast and crew were able to be spotted, it’s unlikely they would have managed to sneak in .

        Quote  Reply

    56. Moderation Policy (FAQ #2)

      2. What is the moderation policy when commenting on Watchers On the Wall ?

      WatchersOnTheWall.com has an open commenting policy for the most part, but personal attacks on other commenters are not permitted. Spamming and trolling are also not allowed, and comments of this nature may be deleted without warning. If your post contains language that is racist, extremely vulgar, or otherwise abusive, it may also warrant deletion.

        Quote  Reply

    57. Cutango,

      Why is it common sense that Dany will certainly outlive Cersei?

      Dany will be riding into battle against the show’s dragon-riding supernatural villain and his army early in Season 8, while Cersei’s likely to still be chilling in King’s Landing surrounded by guards.

      Even if we assume that Dany survives long enough to attack King’s Landing and try to depose Cersei, there’s no more guarantee that Dany would survive the assault on King’s Landing any longer than Cersei would.

      Let’s face it, you are just jumping to conclusions to fit your narrative and calling it common sense.

        Quote  Reply

    58. Cutango:
      mau,

      i was talking about orange who has a well known hate boner for Dany and anyone who doesn’t think she’s going to die is delusional in his mind .

      WTF? No I don’t. Like at all. I have no idea what you’re even talking about or why you chose to single me out. I don’t know what the point of this was other than irrelevant hyperbolic nonsense from you.

        Quote  Reply

    59. Grail King:
      New KL pics. are out on Reddit, for those who want spoilers.

      ———–
      Would you be so kind as to use spoiler code covering, or use the specially designated Quarantine pages in the Forum section, for comments like this? Please understand: I’m not saying you improperly disclosed anything. It’s just that references to unsanctioned “spoilers” and content on other sites frequently spawn lengthy subthreads in these Comments sections in which careless or uncaring commenters do disclose in detail the substsnce of unauthorized “leaks” and “spoilers”, bogus or otherwise.

      Thank you in advance for your understanding and anticipated courtesies.

      🚱🚱🚱🚱🚱🚱🚱🚱🚱

        Quote  Reply

    60. Ten Bears: ———–
      Would you be so kind as to use spoiler code covering, or use the specially designated Quarantine pages in the Forum section, for comments like this? Please understand: I’m not saying you improperly disclosed anything. It’s just that references to unsanctioned “spoilers” and content on other sites frequently spawn lengthy subthreads in these Comments sections in which careless or uncaring commenters do disclose in detail the substsnce of unauthorized “leaks” and “spoilers”, bogus or otherwise.

      Thank you in advance for your understanding and anticipated courtesies.

      You quoted something that said if you don’t mind spoilers this site added info. You were warned so did you go there anyway?
      for some reason the spoiler tag did not work, but you had plenty of info it was a spoiler before the failed tag had the link in it. and the link had the word spoiler, so if you did click you didn’t see.
      I’m well aware of your desire to not have spoilers, but you also don’t need to whine about it as often as you do.
      Thank you in advance for your understanding and anticipated courtesies.

        Quote  Reply

    61. Inga:
      The more I think of it, the more it looks like they have been filming the scene of the mass funeral at the Dragonpit. Tryrion and Sansa (and maybe some other characters including representatives of the Faceless Men) would be jus witnessing that but the main cast may be just lying on a pyre for close shots. That would explain both the chaotic appearance and disappearance of the actors and the presence of all these different characters in the same scene: Jaime & Cersei, Jon & the Night King, Grey Worm, maybe, even Dany, etc. And that would be a very fitting end to the story: valar morghulis, costs of war etc. However, there still a chance that, even if Jon & Dany, they will be resurrected and come out of the pyre unburned to deal with the consequences:)

      This is a very creative idea and for a moment I felt a bit sick to my stomach imagining lots of our favourites all lined up on a giant pyre (post battle for Castle Black style) which is then set alight. However, if the Night King has been defeated and the army of the dead is no more (which I take it most of us are imagining is going to be the outcome of this story, or else where is the sweet bit from the bittersweet coming from?) then there will be no need to burn the dead and their peoples can take them back to their homelands (what’s left of them) and bury/burn them according to their own customs. I also don’t know if Jon/Dany died valiantly fighting off the NK or Cersei that they would be burned alongside others (particularly Cersei); I would imagine they would have a more private ceremony. Now a Dany/Jon joint funeral, maybe (but too sad for me to imagine right now, so I’m going to switch that thought off).

        Quote  Reply

    62. Ramsay's 20th Good Man:
      kevin1989,

      1. Give me a link to the alternate Sopranos endings, because all info I’ve read says they’ve never seen the light of day and I just searched Youtube and there are only a bunch of fake, fan-made alternative endings. Maybe they’re what you’re talking about.

      2. The cost of filming multiple endings is not zero. You’ve discounted almost all production costs simply to suit your argument.

      Emilia’s suggestion, which you apparently agreed with, is that the scenes they were filming in Spain were ones for an alternate ending that she has not seen and will not feature in.

      That means they flew all of the actors out there, hired the location, paid all the location fees and taxes, paid hundreds of crew and extras, paid for accommodation, etc etc etc etc. to shoot an alternate ending that may never see the light of day and which, according to you, they won’t even bother to complete in post-production.

      That’s simply nonsense, I’m afraid.

      3. The other shows you’ve mentioned are nowhere near as costly or complicated to produce as GoT. Two of them were studio-based comedies, for goodness sake. Of course they could film an alternative ending for such a show if they wanted. Most of them simply involved a different edit (How I Met Your Mother) or alternative lines (Sex and the City and Seinfeld) anyway.

      The mooted notion that they have been filming scenes in Spain that do not appear in Emilia’s script and therefore constitute part of some grand plot to film multiple endings to throw off an already captive audience is far-fetched at best.

      Why would they lie? As I’ve already explained, it’s cheaper than actually filming alternative endings and works just as well at throwing people off the scent. As evidenced by your apparent insistence on believing that there’s some grand conspiracy afoot and it’s impossible to know if what they’ve been shooting is for the real ending or for some fake alternative.

      Might they shoot something simple and fun for the DVD extras during an existing shoot, such as sticking a crown on Robin Arryn or Jaqen H’ghar or the Night King, and label it an “alternate ending”? Perhaps.

      Did they drag everybody to Spain to shoot a bunch of material that Emilia is unaware of, which constitutes an alternate ending that will only be revealed in the final edit?

      No.

      1. my bad about the sopranos endings, was only the interviews
      2. I’m not discounting any costs. Not all scenes filmed there were alternative endings. Like I said they filmed 3 scenes and one is the real one. We don’t know if Seville is part of the alternative endings. So the crew is already there, those costs are already made. Only the filmed the scene 3 times with different actors. This can be done in one day, meaning the crew is already paid and cost nothing more. Because they needed to fly there for the real scene, the only thing is their day is a little longer. Instead of 2hours shouting they need to shout 6 hours. (see my point, no extra flying costs).

      Fly out all of the actors out there: The costs are already made for the real scene, they only need to fly in some actors that aren’t in that scene and probably death. I think we can count those on 1 hand. I search a ticket cost around 120 for a retour from london to spain. if you include a sleep place round that up to 200,- you come to a total of 1000,- (the rest of the actors are paid for the real scene and isn’t extra costs)

      hire the location: As I stated, the location is needed for the real scene. They already paid for the location, cost for location is paid per day not per hour. costs for a location costs between 500 and 5000,- (What I can find online), means if they really need to shout 2 days. it costs them 5000,- max. total of 6000,- max.

      paying of 100 of crews: As I already stated before (even in previous comments), they need to film the real scene there, this will cost a total of 0,- (contracts are per episode not per hour for the crew as far as we know)

      Total of 6000,- for filming 1 scene 3 times with different main-actors. Which can be shot in 1 day. We probably forget some costs, so make it 12000 a double. 12.000 is change for a production the scale of GoT.

      The only thing I have against it, is that Emilia need to be in one of those scenes, because why bother.

      3. As I stated it doesn’t need to enter post production, the crew is there for the real scene, the mayor costs are there already, they only need to up it a little bit to shoot 2 scenes. I’m not saying they are filming a battle sequence double, or a scene that will never be on screen completely. Just different versions. Like ten bear stated if it was a wedding, shoot 3x times with a different bride. Or maybe a funeral with 3 different people dead.

      And I’m not saying I 100% believe Emilia, I only stated there’s a change it is true. And maybe they only change somethings in scripts. Like changing scenes where a certain actor isn’t in.

        Quote  Reply

    63. Kevin1989: Why would she lie about this? And it’s not uncommon. Many shows in the past did multiple ending shootings and they’re were more low budget than got. Lost did it, sopranos did it. And many more. We can assume they only will shoot a character interaction scene multiple times. Like who will survive and who not. I don’t think they will shoot multiple action scenes only scenes where actors are needed. (back in season 1 they included some extra scenes like that because they didn’t cost much, like the famous cercei Robert Marriage scene)

      Multiple actors has stated there will be multiple endings filmed. HBO boss stated it. Look at the last couple of days of shooting. It just doesn’t make a lot of sense.

      HBO has gone the “multiple endings shot” before…back in the day, Sex and the City filmed three different versions of the ending scene, one in which Carrie ended up alone, another one in which she ended up with the Russian, and the one that was shown on TV in which she ended up with Big.

        Quote  Reply

    64. Che,

      If! it’s a death scene; I hope Sansa and Arya and Bran will bring Jon north to lay between Ned and Lyanna.
      This would tear jerk me to no end.

        Quote  Reply

    65. mau,

      I’m starting to have a feeling she’s a goner too. Most of the time as you stated the last scene they shoot involve all of the castmembers for having them all together one last time. And maybe that’s why she stated she doesn’t know the ending (and maybe the alternative endings is in fact fake) for giving a reason why she’s absent. It also make sense why Emilia felt the way she described after reading the script. And Maissie said something like that 50% will love the ending and 50% don’t. And also the day Jason was on set and what he said about what he saw. (something that it will fuck people up).

      Cutango,
      Don’t need to defend yourself, Mr derp, mau and some others are here for years, that’s just the way they talk sometimes, they never mean something bad or disrespectful, so if they say something that you feel they are attacking you or something, take it with a grain of salt. They are just major fans like you and me.

      and about Cercei outliving Dany, it can happen. Peter D has started in the most episodes at this point with 61 episodes, and Cercei is second with 58 episodes, and Emelia and kit third with 56 episodes. The show has always had a special interest in Cercei. It wouldn’t surprise me if Dany dies in episode 3, and Cercei will die in the last one.

      Inga,

      Nooooo, I can live with Dany dying (because she’s just one character) but every other one dying, I will be crying for a week.

      But it’s possible, Maybe Dany is on her dragon and putting the pyre in fire (Is this grammar correctly?) Maybe Emilia will shoot her part in studio. And she’s on dragon in that scene.

      And all this talk about common sense, more I read about it, the more I think: Am I missing that?

        Quote  Reply

    66. George,

      I can see it clearly now, they are filming 4 different endings, we are at the wedding of Brienne and they shoot different groom:
      1. Jaime, or golden(hand)boy
      2. Thormund, yeah giant babies.
      3. The hound, they already clashed some swords. And have a surrogate daughter together which they can train.
      4. And somehow they filmed a scene where she’s marrying Theon greyjoy, who after the events with Ramsay, and Euron decided to live the rest of his live as a transgender woman. It will be shock, but this is leaked to be the real ending.

        Quote  Reply

    67. Grail King:
      Che,
      If! it’s a death scene; I hope Sansa and Arya and Bran will bring Jon north to lay between Ned and Lyanna.
      This would tear jerk me to no end.

      You tear-jerked me just now! Oh god..

        Quote  Reply

    68. mau,

      Everybody dies though. Maybe be surprised if Dany doesn’t die of old age lol

      Definitely thought she could die before her time, in her prime and a result of the War with the NK and his army of th dead. There are arguably some points where one would think: Holy crap did Tyrion just mention her legacy and who’s going to rule after her in case of her untimely death(?) but they also moments foreshadowing her having kids… it’s a tie for me at this point. Definitely left thir options wide open with Dany.

        Quote  Reply

    69. George,

      Good Lord George! Are you serious right now? The Russian?! 👀 had no idea.

      That being said, I cannot see them filming various scenarios for the series end. To have that it would mean they were never quite sure about the ending in my opinion and to me they were alway firm about that (we don’t know obvi what THAT really is). Benioff and Weiss seemed to know exactly where they are going.

        Quote  Reply

    70. Grail King,

      I am sorry if I overreacted. And I did notice in other comments you did direct people to links in the Forum section.
      You’re a “regular.” It’s not you I’d be concerned about. It’s the unfamiliar interloper who might reply without knowing or caring about moderation policies. Perhaps I “don’t need to whine about it [spoilers/leaks references?] as often as [I] do.” I’ve just noticed a pattern: Once someone posts uncovered “spoilers” or alleged “leaks” not contained in the WoW article, the Comments section gets flooded with uncovered replies and further discussions about them.
      I’m compelled to add that recent vituperative attacks by someone else – an interloper from another, free-for-all, unmoderated fan site – may have made me oversensitive.
      Once again, I apologize to you.

      PS I did not click on your link. So no harm, no foul.

        Quote  Reply

    71. mau,

      She can give birth to a living child after 6-7 months. And it will take a while before they arrive at Winterfell. Maybe they are already a month further in the first episode. They might make some time jumps while Winterfell is under siege.

        Quote  Reply

    72. Che,

      As to the dreaded “b” word: In many respects, after 67 of 73 total episodes, maybe much of the “bitterness” has already been baked into the story. Most if not all of our heroes and favorite characters have suffered grievously already, many permanently: loved ones murdered; mutilations; scarred psyches; betrayals; burnings; and on and on.

      Even if the good guys can defeat all of the bad guys and invading monsters without suffering any major casualties, they can’t really have a “happy” ending. They’d be haunted by how much they’ve suffered and lost, wouldn’t they?

      BTW: Ever since Maester Aemon told Jon “you won’t find much joy in your command” and then Beric echoed that by reminding Jon that as soldiers “we won’t find much joy while we’re here”, I’ve assumed that the King Who Broods is already aware his future will not be all peace, love and kidney pie.

        Quote  Reply

    73. George: HBO has gone the “multiple endings shot” before…back in the day, Sex and the City filmed three different versions of the ending scene, one in which Carrie ended up alone, another one in which she ended up with the Russian, and the one that was shown on TV in which she ended up with Big.

      ———-
      Really???? But…but what would’ve happened to that wonderful scene with Charlotte, Miranda, Samantha and Big in one of the prior episodes? The one that concluded with Miranda leaning over and telling Big: “Go get our girl!”

      (Second only to the scene that started with…
      Harry: “Charlotte. How’ve you been?”
      Charlotte: “Not good…”)

        Quote  Reply

    74. Ten Bears:

      Even if the good guys can defeat all of the bad guys and invading monsters without suffering any major casualties, they can’t really have a “happy” ending. They’d be haunted by how much they’ve suffered and lost, wouldn’t they?

      Absolutely! I’ve stated in the past that I have a hunch that none of the Big 6 (Arya, Daenerys, Jon, Bran, Sansa, and Tyrion) will die. Now I wait and see if my suspicion pans out. 😉

        Quote  Reply

    75. TormundsWoman:
      mau,

      “…Definitely thought she could die before her time, in her prime and a result of the War with the NK and his army of the dead. There are arguably some points where one would think: Holy crap did Tyrion just mention her legacy and who’s going to rule after her in case of her untimely death(?) but they also moments foreshadowing her having kids… it’s a tie for me at this point. Definitely left their options wide open with Dany.”

      ——————
      With the caveat that I don’t like baby dramas, if you’re right about foreshadowing….

      • Jon aka Aegon Targaryan’s mother died giving birth to him.
      • Daenerys Targaryen’s mother died giving birth to her.
      • Daenerys may die giving birth to her child.

      (Tinfoil Time: Single father Jon raises their daughter with the help of Aunt Sansa and Aunt Arya. Final scene: baby in a bib in a high chair. Burly cook in apron turns around and says sweetly: “Here little princess, our favorite: puréed chicken.”)

        Quote  Reply

    76. Jay Targ,

      I’m not going to try to guess what George plans or how close to that and what D&D will do, but, I still often think about the story they’re doing as a whole for the show… There’s a reason why most TV shows, movies and books have the protagonists, the favorite characters live and win… most people don’t like stories that end with them feeling like shit. Is George’s plan reeeaally to do such a thing? I don’t believe so. Do D&D want to end one of the most popular shows ever in that way? I don’t believe so.

        Quote  Reply

    77. Clob,

      Yeah I agree. I’ve always suspected that the show will end in more of a conventional way than most (hardcore) fans suspect. That’s not to say there won’t be any twists.. We still have that “3rd Holy S***” moment coming, but beyond that, I think the story will be more predictable rather than shocking.

        Quote  Reply

    78. Jay Targ,

      Well GRRM said it himself that the ending will be like LOTR, i don’t know in what universe would that be considered a bad ending, sure it’s not entirely happy but most of it ends in a satisfying aspect, that’s what i ask for in a story, a satisfying ending no matter if it’s good or bad as opposed to a shitty ending that makes me not want to rewatch that thing ever again, Dexter and other shows i’m looking at you . But if people expect a bleak ending because “this is GOT” which btw i hate those words, they are clearly made by people who don’t understand the story and are only watching or reading for pure shock value, they might as well don’t bother watching the last season and spare us the predictable whining .

        Quote  Reply

    79. Ten Bears:
      Che,

      As to the dreaded “b” word: In many respects, after 67 of 73 total episodes, maybe much of the “bitterness” has already been baked into the story. Most if not all of our heroes and favorite characters have suffered grievously already, many permanently: loved ones murdered;mutilations; scarred psyches; betrayals; burnings; and on and on.

      Even if the good guys can defeat all of the bad guys and invading monsters without suffering any major casualties, they can’t really have a “happy” ending. They’d be haunted by how much they’ve suffered and lost, wouldn’t they?…….

      Yep.

        Quote  Reply

    80. Ten Bears,

      Ah, there! Third option may meet both expectations for some here above: not die in battle as a result of the war & live long enough to give birth to a baby. It would be bittersweet indeed.

        Quote  Reply

    81. TormundsWoman,

      Before we get to the “b” word….As I posited above, Jon/Aegon Targaryen’s mom and Daenerys Targaryen’s mom both dying in childbirth might arguably foreshadow Dany dying in childbirth.

      I have a couple of questions before I go further down that tinfoil rabbit hole:

      • Q1: Though I usually try to avoid “books” canon, I’m curious if the the books suggest the Targaryens have a higher than normal rate of deaths in childbirth (maybe because if inbreeding?). Does anyone know?

      • Q2: This also may be “books canon” only; maybe I read about it here: Wasn’t there something on the show or in the books about Elia Martell being unable to have a third child without endangering her life? Or some kind of health problem that made her too frail to have more children?

      • Q3 [Sorry so convoluted]: In S1e9 or S1e10, that blood magic witch tricked a pregnant Dany into sacrificing her baby’s life in order to “save” Khal Drogo, but he wound up as a catatonic vegetable while Dany’s baby came out stillborn, described as a deformed grotesque monster or something. I thought that witch told Dany that Khal Drogo would return to her when pigs fly and hell freezes over… wait, no…. it was something like “when the sun rises in the west and sets in the east; when the seas go dry; and when the mountains blow like leaves.”
      However, I don’t recall that witch telling Dany she wouldn’t be able to have children, but at the Dragonpit chat between Dany & Jon in S7e7, that’s what Dany told Jon:

      Dany: “I can’t have children.”
      Jon: “Who told you that?”
      Dany: “The witch who murdered my husband.”
      Jon: “Has it occurred to you she might not have been a reliable source of information?”

      Was the witch’s statement to Dany that she would be infertile a “books only” thing? I thought I recalled reading something here on WoW that the witch’s words were that Dany’s womb wouldn’t quicken until [something something].
      Does anyone know what I’m talking about? And if so, what did the witch told Dany about her womb not quickening or not being able to have children?

      I’d appreciate any information anyone might remember, whether from the show or the books. Because depending on the answers, the show could very well be setting up one of those irreconcilable “win & lose or lose & win” scenarios.

        Quote  Reply

    82. Ten Bears,

      Sorry for interrupting! 🙂 If this helps, these are the relevant passages from the books that you might be referring to in your discussions which talk about the witch’s comments on Dany’s future abilities to bear a living child:

      “When will he be as he was?” Dany demanded.
      “When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east,” said Mirri Maz Duur. “When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before.”

      A Game of Thrones, Daenerys IX

      And when the bleak dawn broke over an empty horizon, Dany knew that he was truly lost to her. “When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east,” she said sadly. “When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When my womb quickens again, and I bear a living child. Then you will return, my sun-and-stars, and not before.”
      Never, the darkness cried, never never never.

      A Game of Thrones, Daenerys IX

      At the end of A Dance With Dragons in Daenerys X, she is described as getting her period, but some readers speculate it might be a miscarriage. Dany thinks it’s her moon blood and these passages come with delightful descriptions that resemble painful menstrual cramping complete with, “Her guts were full of writhing snakes biting at her bowels,” which is really nice and accurate. However, it might very well be a miscarriage.

      As far as I can remember, in the show, there’s no comment on Dany’s future fertility but I could be totally, completely wrong there.

      Anyway, I hope these passages help! 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    83. Adrianacandle,

      Well thanks! They do help: I think it confirms for me that neither on the show nor in the books did the witch expressly say Dany could never have children. The “prophecies” were all about when Khal Drogo would return to her. Not when she’d be able to bear children.

      The weird grammar and punctuation of the witch’s words seem to spell out four conditions that all have to occur before Khal Drogo would return to her. The first three – the sun rising in the west, seas going dry, and mountains blowing in the wind like leaves – seem like physical impossibilities, unless GRRM is going for a play on words.
      However, the witch didn’t say the fourth condition could never occur, i.e., Dany getting pregnant and giving birth to a living child.

      So far, I’ve found nothing in the show’s dialogue that support’s Dany’s assertion to Jon in S7e7 that the witch had told her she cannot have children.

      It may very well be an instance of Dany, in her grief, misinterpreting the witch’s ambiguous words. Almost like Hot Pie and his logical fallacy that because knights wear armor, anyone wearing armor is a knight. 👨🏼‍🍳🤔 Dany’s misconception is that none of the four conditions will ever occur because Drogo will never return to her.

      Or maybe I’m just confused. I just could not find a line of dialogue from S1 when that witch ever told Dany straight out that she couldn’t have children. Yet, from Dany’s conversation with Jon in S7e7, she believes that’s what the witch told her.

      The good news, or bad news, depending on one’s own perspective. is that now I can start preparing to go further down the tinfoil rabbit hole.

      (I’m pretty sure there’s some textual support for Elia Martel having reproductive health problems (Q#2 above). Lots of book reader commenters have suggested that one of Rhaegar’s motives for recklessly pursuing Lyanna was his belief that he had to have a third child, but his wife Elia couldn’t safely bear another child. )

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    84. Ten Bears,

      The problem with book- Dany interpreting book- Mirri’s words is easy understandable if you read the books. She’s pondering on those words IIRC at least once in every single book where she is a POV, and somehow that gets it amplified in her head. The prophecy may be all about Drogo coming back to life but her logic interpreting that prophecy is not wrong considering the realm of the natural order. Dead people don’t resurrect according to what she knew then. So if the only way for Drogo to be alive again is for her to give birth to a living child, I guess having kids is a bit of a problem. Clearly she’s a pragmatic.

      However, should book-Jon be resurrected, and should she find out, I guess she WILL try to have kids. After all, resurrection is no longer an impossibility with all the magic coming back to the world and she suddenly becomes aware of this.

      Just interesting to point out that book-Dany never got pregnant with Daario (we just assume that the blood was really a miscarriage as Adriana mentioned above, nobody knows for sure though). So that may also be a proof to her that she cannot conceive. However if what we assume is correct, then Mirri’s prophecy is bullshit and Dany just doesn’t know it.

      Show-Dany is a bit of an issue. The fertility line is cut from the prophecy in season 1, so you’re left to wonder where does Dany get all these ideas about her not able to have kids. I’d say show-Dany probably read the books 😊 Which is why you’re left to wonder as a show only viewer. I’d say it’s a bit of a bad writing but I’m not and never was bothered by it, as I am a book reader and know Dany way before I had ever seen her on the screen. I know her pain. It’s real.

        Quote  Reply

    85. Adrianacandle,

      In the Comment section under the 5/19/18 Article “Season 8 Setpiece Battle Shoot Continues”, there’s an interesting thread discussing GRRM’s work on the “Beauty & the Beast” TV series and how it may have been a template for Sandor & Sansa (more so in the books but still evident in the show, including Sandor’s last scene with Sansa that’s almost beat for beat identical to the Cocteau (?) film version of Beauty & the Beast.

      Anyway, there are many informative posts about these parallels today (5/20/18) between 9:28 am and 2:57 pm from Canal Cat, Grail King, and others.

      I’m bringing it up here because by coincidence (or not), Grail King mentioned something I never knew: that on the TV, series Catherine (“the Beauty”) died in childbirth.

      Now I don’t know if or how much GRRM was involved in producing decisions or scripting that storyline; apparently GRRM didn’t plan to kill off “Catherine” but the actress playing her (Linda Hamilton) wanted to leave the show. (See, eg, Comments by Canal Cat at 12:23 pm & 2:57 pm and Grail King at 12:15 pm).

      That may be one more tidbit of tinfoil to add to my initial 3-point proposition on 5/18/18 at 8:38 am in an exchange with TormundsWoman

      TB:
      • Jon aka Aegon Targaryan’s mother died giving birth to him.
      • Daenerys Targaryen’s mother died giving birth to her.
      • Daenerys may die giving birth to her child.

      I wanted to thank you again for the information you provided. (This show is like a set of riddles with clues sprinkled in among 67 hours of screen time and thousands of pages of source material.)

      *Dons tinfoil helmet*🤖👨‍🚀

      As much as I loathe the baby drama angle, I’m now thinking about tweaking the above speculation that “Daenerys may die giving birth to her child”, to the kind of “lose & win or win & lose” quandary I was referring to earlier:

      That because of heredity Targaryen predispositions, and physical damage from the witch’s “blood magic” that caused Dany’s first baby to be stillborn and deformed, Daenerys and Jon learn that if she carries the child to term she will most likely die in childbirth.

      How would they each respond to that? Would they choose to preserve Dany’s life at the expense of their child’s? Or accept Dany’s likely death so their child may live?

      Is some religious weirdo from the past *cough* Jaqen *cough* going to pop in to repeat that “only death can pay for life” mantra?

      For those fans looking for the “b word” (b_____s___t), there might be some potential for a joyous occasion tempered with sadness.

      *Removes tinfoil helmet*🤖👨‍🚀

        Quote  Reply

    86. Ten Bears,

      You’re totally welcome!! I’m glad those passages helped!

      Dany’s fertility:

      The phrasing of the witch’s words is totally weird and when I read the book for the first time, I had to re-read that part a few times to make sense of it. You’re right, the witch doesn’t say word-for-word that Dany is infertile, but as TormundsWoman says, Dany bearing a living child seems to be phrased as an impossible condition for Khal Drogo’s return.

      Or, at the very least, Dany really truly does believe she can’t have kids and as TormundsWoman mentions, she does interpret the witch’s words this way:

      Dany found herself wondering whether he was right about Daario. She felt very lonely all of a sudden. Mirri Maz Duur had promised that she would never bear a living child. House Targaryen will end with me. That made her sad. “You must be my children,” she told the dragons, “my three fierce children. Arstan says dragons live longer than men, so you will go on after I am dead.

      A Storm of Swords, Daenerys IV

      Still, you and TormundsWoman are absolutely right that there is no mention of this part of the prophecy in the show. I combed through the transcripts of episodes which feature Mirri Maz Duur and I can’t find anything. It seems to be only a book-only detail.

      The witch’s prophecy could very well be total bullshit. If Dany isn’t miscarrying, then she’s gotten her period, which is a sign of fertility. If she has miscarried, then she is able to get pregnant but it seems Mirri promised Dany she wouldn’t bare a living child, so a miscarriage may still be inline with the prophecy if it is true. Either way, Dany’s fertile enough to at least get pregnant 🙂

      Whether or not she can have a living child… well…

      Elia’s reproductive health:

      Yes! It’s true that book readers have long speculated Rhaegar may have pursued Lyanna after being told that Elia could have no more children once she gave birth to her second child Aegon. I’ve read that Rhaegar was a bit prophecy-obsessed and felt he needed to have three children according to fulfill this prophecy of The Prince That Was Promised (detailed here – they explain it waaaaay better than me!)

      Some passages on Elia’s health:

      Jon Connington remembered Prince Rhaegar’s wedding all too well. Elia was never worthy of him. She was frail and sickly from the first, and childbirth only left her weaker. After the birth of Princess Rhaenys, her mother had been bedridden for half a year, and Prince Aegon’s birth had almost been the death of her. She would bear no more children, the maesters told Prince Rhaegar afterward.

      A Dance With Dragons, The Griffin Report (Chapter 61)

      Their father [Tywin] had summoned Cersei to court when she was twelve, hoping to make her a royal marriage. He refused every offer for her hand, preferring to keep her with him in the Tower of the Hand while she grew older and more womanly and ever more beautiful. No doubt he was waiting for Prince Viserys to mature, or perhaps for Rhaegar’s wife to die in childbed. Elia of Dorne was never the healthiest of women.

      A Storm of Swords, Jaime II

      The Possibility of Dany Dying in Childbirth:

      Thanks for that referral to that discussion! I’ll check it out! I also remember reading some stuff how Beauty & the Beast and GRRM’s work on the television series may have provided a template for Sansa and the Hound (wow, even their names fit the template :D) and I can buy that. There are a lot of parallels, especially in the books.

      As much as I hate the idea of Dany dying in childbirth, I think it is a possibility. Dying in childbirth seems to be not uncommon in this series and The Big Three (Dany, Jon, and Tyrion) all have mothers who died giving birth to them or shortly after. And, in real life until relatively recently (well, relatively recently in industrialized countries), it is a reasonable fear and not an unusual cause of death.

      The witch’s magic may have done some damage to Dany, or even complications from her first pregnancy and birth to her stillborn son. I think it’s correct that the witch’s magic caused deformities to Dany’s child and I think there might be a possibility that it may have lingering effects on Dany’s future pregnancies. I hope not, I don’t really want any childbirth drama – I think the b-word ending can still be achieved by other means – but it’s definitely a possibility.

      I think without a doubt, Dany would give her life to save her child. I think Jon would have a much harder time deciding. Jon’s been in love before, but he’s never been a position of having a child of his own. In the books, he once dreamed of having his own child and contemplated naming him Robb after his own late brother, but shoved this dream way back down and refused it as a possibility. If presented with this scenario in Season 8, I don’t know how he’d choose between Dany and their child. In both the show and books, because Jon is a character of intense emotion who loves deeply, I think the choice would be incredibly difficult for him and I don’t know how he’d choose. Dany’s most fervent desire has been for a home and family of her own. I think the choice would be much easier for Dany than it would be for Jon. I think there’s that feeling where it’s harder to live with the death of a loved one than it is to die yourself and it’s kind of the stuff of Lifetime movies 😉 So a mother choosing to save her child over herself and a father having to choose between the mother and their child – yikes.

      “A Song of Ice and Steel Magnolias” is right!

        Quote  Reply

    87. Ten Bears,

      Crap. I didn’t correctly input the link to the detailed explanation of The Dragon Has Three Heads summary that I linked to in my comment above. Anyway, it includes stuff on Rhaegar’s belief in the Prince That Was Promised prophecy and how he may have worked to fulfill it. Here it is!

      It’s a pretty short, concise read but I think it gives a nice, rounded-out summary 🙂

      If you haven’t seen this before, AltShiftX has a nice, concise, well-thought out summary on Rhaegar that focuses on, as per the video’s description, “Who was Jon Snow’s father, Rhaegar Targaryen? What were his political plans for his father, Mad King Aerys? What were his beliefs about the prophecy of Azor Ahai and the three heads of the dragon?” It’s nearly 17 minutes long but if you haven’t seen it yet, it gives a nice, neutral overview with textual support without having to deep-dive for this stuff 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    88. Unfortunately Emilia Clarke’s Tokyo visit cancelled.
      This was planned for ‘Solo: Star Wars story’ Japan premiere on 12th June.
      Cancellation anouncement was brought by Disney Japan.
      They said that reason for her cancelation is another production filming schedule was changed. That’s difinitly GoT Filming. But I dont know GoT filming schedule truly has changed.

      stoneman:   Quote

      stoneman:
      Emilia’s tour promoting Solo movie is not over. She will go back to US next week to appear on several talk shows and in the 3rd week of June She wiil be in Japan for Solo premiere.

        Quote  Reply

    89. Ten Bears:
      Adrianacandle,

      Adrianacandle already provided some of the relevant book quotes, but I’d like to point out that some book readers think three of the four “impossible” conditions have already been met or are about to be met.

      There’s a book character (omitted in the show) that could be called a sun the same way Starks are wolves or Lannisters lions etc. This character was born (rose) in the west, came to Dany in the east and died (set) there.

      The Dothraki Sea in Dany’s last chapters is a lot drier than it used to be.

      The Meereenese pyramids have been compared to mountains and now several are crumbling and blowing in the wind due to scorching action by Rhaegal and Viserion, who were set free by the sun character.

      Plus, Dany had her period, maybe even a misscarriage, out in the Dothraki Sea before meeting the khalassar (and this is where the last book ends). Some readers interpret this as even the fourth condition coming to pass sometime in the future. That is, she’ll bear a living child, and then be together with Drogo… in the nightlands, i.e. die.

      It’s all in the interpretations, and I’m not 100% sold on this, but if Dany, indeed, dies in childbirth or soon after, the hints/clues/foreshadowing has been there in the books. The show of course is different.

        Quote  Reply

    90. Ten Bears,

      I’ve had an even more disturbing thought… what if Dany is dying through injury or just birth trauma, with no chance of her surviving the birth .. and Jon is forced to kill her (c section) in order for their child to survive? That’d give us a WTF moment, a devisive ending and (possibly) the Nissa Nissa moment..

        Quote  Reply

    91. Apollo:
      Ten Bears,

      …….. (possibly) the Nissa Nissa moment..

      I’m still in denial of the possibility of Dany or Jon (or Tyrion, or Arya, or Sansa, or Missandei, or Greyworm, or Brienne, or Sam, or Gilly….) dying. Was thinking about the NissaNissa moment though. I don’t think that portion of the Azor Ahai prophecy was mentioned in the show, so it may not be explicitly referenced or used in season 8, but has there been any discussion of Jon’s murder at the end of S5 being a variation of the NissaNissa portion of the prophecy? I think part of Dany’s interest in the mention of Jon ‘taking a knife in the heart’ for his people was her evaluation of him as an ally (and person). I wondered if the specific reference to him having taken a knife in the heart rather than it being mentioned that he’d been attacked by mutineers had any other meaning. His death was definitely a ‘tempering’ moment. I guess I’m wondering (like others) if the Azor Ahai stuff is mostly a series of key events involving several people rather than one person….. I got the World of Fire and Ice book and the maester mentions in several sections how things that happened in the past that were attributed to one person (e.g. Garth Greenhands legend) were probably separate, though sometimes connected, events that were undertaken by multiple people.

        Quote  Reply

    92. talvikorppi,

      That’s interesting! Thanks. I had entertained some show-only possibilities for the four conditions (not that I’d trust that bitch’s – I mean witch’s prophecies):
      I thought about the mountains above Hardhome appearing to disintegrate and blow away (as the AotD wights were apparently scrambling down the mountainsides).
      The sun or son rising in the west – I thought might refer to Jon.
      Seas drying up? That’s a tough one. Maybe freezing over.
      And finally (like you wrote): Since these characters believe in an afterlife, Drogo could return to Dany if she bears a live child but she dies in childbirth.

      Lingering question though: As far as I can tell, that witch never flatly told Dany, “You can’t have children”, in either the books or the show.
      Am I missing something? Confused? Both?

        Quote  Reply

    93. Apollo:
      Ten Bears,

      I’ve had an even more disturbing thought… what if Dany is dying through injury or just birth trauma, with no chance of her surviving the birth .. and Jon is forced to kill her (c section) in order for their child to survive? That’d give us a WTF moment, a devisive ending and (possibly) the Nissa Nissa moment..

      You just out-tinfoiled me. Bravo. That would truly be a WTF, screwed-either-way moment.

      How would you foresee that playing out? Would Jon have to make an on-the-spot decision to do an amateur C-section immediately or else both mother and child would die?

      I take it Samwell Tarly, MD would not be around to work his surgical magic.

      …. This ending could be f*cking macabre…

        Quote  Reply

    94. Ten Bears,

      Not really sure, it only just occurred to me TBH.. I can’t see Jon actually performing a C section as such, but if Sam and Gilly are unable to save her and she’s doomed to die an agonising death, and the death of her child, perhaps he’d kill her to spare her any pain and save his child. He’s done it with Mance after all.

      Interestingly enough (and kinda what made me think of it as I was home for the weekend).. it’s very similar to how the Royal Stewart dynasty began. Robert the Bruce’s daughter was thrown from her horse and died. Monks from the local Abbey found her, and cut her open to save the unborn child- and he became the first Stewart King.

      This happened in my home town- and my surname is Stewart 😛🤴🏼

        Quote  Reply

    95. Apollo,

      If Sam were a doctor in the real world, he might be disqualified from treating Dany. In the fictional world, he might justifiably be concerned that if he tries to save her but fails, people will claim he botched it on purpose because she executed his brother and father.

      And it’d be difficult to expect him to be objective in determining if he can save both mother and child or only one of them. Part of him might be thinking: “Oh, I’ll do anything to save Jon’s baby! His firebug girlfriend? Not so much…”

      I should stop thinking about this lurid scenario…

        Quote  Reply

    96. Nissa Nissa. TPWP, AA and aint appening in da show, only in the books shall they be resolved.

        Quote  Reply

    97. Ten Bears,

      Now that you mention it, it could be a real ethical pickle for Sam-as he could in theory have issue with Dany. There’s an oft referred to theory also, that the Maesters of the Citadel have been trying to wipe out the Targs/Dragons for generations.

      So much for us both not wanting any baby drama (and apologies for reintroducing any possibilities of said baby drama) 👶 🙈

        Quote  Reply

    98. Apollo,
      Ten Bears,

      While I agree that there are some signs (and there is consistency in the narrative) that Dany might die in childbirth, I’ve never actually been a fan of this ending for her. What does it add to her arc and her character? After the huge journey she’s been on, and for such a major character, it almost seems like a convenient way to get her out of the way for Jon to rule. I just don’t feel it says anything significant about her story.

      Sure, it presents a huge dilemma for Jon and would be a huge heartbreaker, but it doesn’t seem like is does anything substantive for Dany. For me, I really like the idea of Dany’s arc culminating in going from the Mother of Dragons to.. well, a mother.

        Quote  Reply

    99. Enharmony1625,

      I agree. That would be the worst ending for her. To do that it would have to be following George’s plan. If he has nothing better than that then I don’t even want to read his ending.

        Quote  Reply

    100. Clob:
      Enharmony1625,

      I agree.That would be the worst ending for her.To do that it would have to be following George’s plan.If he has nothing better than that then I don’t even want to read his ending.

      I would be so disappointed with that kind of ending for her. It seems like it would be too obvious as well (Dany, Jon, Tyrion’s mother all going out that way). Plus, I have zero emotional investment in a kid of theirs compared to the characters I’ve ‘known’ for years. Blurgh. It’d just suck.

      Of course, I just spent a couple of hours figuring out a damn car seat and I don’t even have kids, so I could just be particularly grumpy. Reason #4965 I’ll stick with my birds and furry critter children. 😂

        Quote  Reply

    101. Enharmony1625,

      Agree for the most part. Still holding out hope that she, Jon, and the remaining dragons survive. As others mentioned, at this point in the story, so much has happened that even if all our faves survive they won’t be ‘happy,’ but hopefully they’ll have a chance to start healing.

        Quote  Reply

    102. Enharmony1625,

      Don’t get me wrong. I do not want to see that Dany-dies ending. I just wondered if there was a narrative reason for these two Targaryens to coincidentally have mothers dying giving birth to them, or if it’s a hereditary tendency affecting Targaryens.

      I wish there hadn’t been all those hints about pregnancy, babies, successors/heirs, intercourse, and other baby drama stuff last season.

      It’d be nice if Dany’s story could conclude with her being a mommy. I’d be okay if she ends up as Aunt Dany, going dragon-riding in the skies with her BFF niece Arya.

      I’ve always hoped that Arya’s obvious admiration for Aegon Targaryen’s sisters and knowledge about their dragons in her conversation with Tywin somehow hinted at her eventual meeting and relationship with Daenerys.

      “Visenya Targaryen was a great warrior, She had a Valyrian steel sword she called Dark Sister.”

        Quote  Reply

    103. Ten Bears:
      Enharmony1625,
      I’vealways hoped that Arya’s obvious admiration for Aegon Targaryen’s sisters and knowledge about their dragons in her conversation with Tywin somehow hinted at her eventual meeting and relationship with Daenerys.

      “Visenya Targaryen was a great warrior, She had a Valyrian steel sword she called Dark Sister.”

      I certainly hope that Arya’s relationship with Dany will be largely positive. There is obviously the issue of Targaryen distrust among the northerners, but I think when Arya sees Jon’s love for Dany (along with the baby bump), she’ll be pro-Dany. If anyone will be anti-Dany it will be Sansa. I’m actually very interested to see the dynamic between Dany, Arya, and Sansa next season.

        Quote  Reply

    104. Enharmony1625,

      I just rewatched that scene again (Arya & Tywin S2e7, below). If Arya was impressed with Visenya Targaryen, imagine her reaction when Jon, Sandor and other members of the Idiot Plan Brigade tell her the tale of the Heroine of the Frozen Lake: how they were completely f*cked, and about to be swarmed under by thousands of wights — when Daenerys Targaryen came riding in out of the sky on her dragon and saved them all.

      _________________
      (Excerpt – S2e7 Arya & Tywin)

      ***
      Tywin: “Aegon Targaryen changed the rules.
      That’s why every child alive still knows his name.”
      Arya: “Aegon and his sisters.”
      Tywin: “Mmm?”
      Arya: “It wasn’t just Aegon riding his dragon. It was Rhaenys and Visenya, too.”
      Tywin: “Correct. A student of history, are you?”
      Arya: “Rhaenys rode Meraxes. Visenya rode Vhagar.”
      Tywin: “I’m sure I knew that when I was a boy.”
      Arya (with awe): “Visenya Targaryen was a great warrior. She had a Valyrian steel sword she called Dark Sister.”
      Tywin: “She’s a heroine of yours, I take it?”
      [Arya smiles]

        Quote  Reply

    105. Enharmony1625,

      “I’m actually very interested to see the dynamic between Dany, Arya, and Sansa next season.”
      ___________________

      Arya: “I heard you flame-broiled those two dickheads. Me, I prefer baking. Seals in the flavor better.
      Dany: “What?”

        Quote  Reply

    106. Ten Bears,

      Ha! Nice. 🙂
      They could have an assembly line going: Arya kills them, cuts them up, and Dany puts them in a pie and has Drogon bake it.

        Quote  Reply

    107. Wow, still going strong here; So let me throw this out to people.
      Per someone on FF both Emilia and Sophie have filmed more then what people know, and that the show runners are keeping the Danni and Sansa stuff tightly under wraps.
      Take with salt or your favorite condiment.

        Quote  Reply

    108. Reis:
      Luka Nieto,

      You are totally right. I am just worry that Emilia wasn’t there

      Emilia has already said in many interviews during her Solo Tour that she is currently filming (and looks like already filmed Dany’s final scene), a lot of scenes, and now she has taken a break for the Solo Tour and is back to filme GoT. She also confirmed that since they film out of order, some already finished filming, etc. Her schedule is being crazy, with the tour for Solo happening at the same time of GoT filming. So, Not reason to worry since she is back to filming.

        Quote  Reply

    109. Enharmony1625:
      Apollo,
      Ten Bears,

      While I agree that there are some signs (and there is consistency in the narrative) that Dany might die in childbirth, I’ve never actually been a fan of this ending for her. What does it add to her arc and her character? After the huge journey she’s been on, and for such a major character, it almost seems like a convenient way to get her out of the way for Jon to rule. I just don’t feel it says anything significant about her story.

      Sure, it presents a huge dilemma for Jon and would be a huge heartbreaker, but it doesn’t seem like is does anything substantive for Dany. For me, I really like the idea of Dany’s arc culminating in going from the Mother of Dragons to.. well, a mother.

      I never for once thought that this option of Dany dying in childbirth was a real possibility. This would cause a huge rant storm around the internet and would be the worst ending for a incredible and complex character like Dany, who survived so many horrors and wars, and is a powerful image for so many woman. This would go against all her journey. I really have no idea what will be the end , but i for sure hope that it will be faithful to Dany’s beautiful journey in the entire show.

        Quote  Reply

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