Maisie Williams on Jon Snow: “It’s a great twist”

MaisieMaisie Williams had a great night at the London Film Critics’ Circle Awards this weekend, hitting the red carpet and accepting the award for Young British Performer of the Year for her role in The Falling.

At the awards, the actress chatted with reporters and teased Game of Thrones season 6.

While speaking with The Upcoming, Williams discussed the difference between filming Doctor Who and Game of Thrones, her role on the scifi show, her experience playing Lydia in The Falling and of course Game of Thrones.

On last year’s storyline, the actress agrees somewhat with fans who were wondering, “Why am I still sweeping floors?” through the early part of season 5’s Arya story. “But it kind of all builds up to the betrayal, and the kill ultimately which was so much fun to do.” The season ended with Arya being blinded by the Faceless Men who had taken her into the House of Black and White to learn their assassin ways.

As for the question every cast member gets asked these days, Maisie says about Jon Snow’s potential return that, “I feel so mean because I speak to people and they’re all like ‘Jon Snow, is he back?’ and it’s like really heartbreaking because people are like ‘yeah, but he’s coming back though?’ It’s a great twist but I can’t say he’s going to be alive.”

Well, then!

Williams also says that she loves shooting Game of Thrones, and that, “Everything is now sort of wrapping up and slotting into place for the finale. I love that all the pieces are coming together.” She says we have some really cinematic shots to look forward to in the new season, based on the scripts she’s seen.

Check out the complete interview with The Upcoming below:

Maisie also chatted with the people at HeyUGuys, and discussed the work that goes into creating the look of Blind Arya-specifically her white eyes.

“I was so confident that the contacts, ‘they didn’t hurt, it’s fine,’ and then I got on set, and destroyed my eyes. And there’s a picture on my Instagram of my eyes where they’re all puffy and awful, and I was such a wuss about it. It’s quite bad. But it looks cool on camera and that’s really all that matters!”

She says her story arc this year was “fun to do” and that it was fun to read.

The complete interview with HeyUGuys:


Casting Updates:

The latest CV updating for Staz Nair shows that his season 6 character will be named Qhono. The actor’s casting was uncovered in October and presumed to be playing a Dothraki based on his filming dates and locations and his look.

In the second large casting list of new roles for season 6 that we shared back in June, the show was searching for actors to play a pair of “successful young warriors” named Qhogo and Akrat. The overall descriptions made it apparent the roles were for Dothraki men. Given the similarity in names, it’s safe to guess Nair is this character, and the show either slightly changed the name or misspelled it in the casting notice.

Deon Lee WilliamsAnother casting has popped up: Deon Lee-Williams will be playing a Young Warrior, according to his agency CV.  The title ‘young warrior’ is used often in GoT casting notices, it’s fairly generic, but it does always point to Dothraki men.

Given his youth and size, he might fit the bill for the Young Warrior role that we saw in September. At that time, the show was casting a Dothraki man, age 20-25,  who is “quirky, intelligent, and quick-witted” and unusually slight for a warrior.

457 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. I really hope we do not have a semi-dead Jon Snow walking around like a zombie that would seriously suck in terms of character development and overall story arc.

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    2. Well, its not like anyone on the cast can actually come out and say “Yes he’s dead, but he is resurrected.” Just like Maisie here, says she can’t come out and say “he’s alive”, breach of contract.

      The twist, that I can see happening is…Mel does her thing, revives Jon…but he doesn’t appear to be alive. Like a body without a soul. Which is because he is inside Ghost, cue Bran telling Jon to go home or some such thing a few episodes later and we have Jon back in his body.

      Or the twist is just him being revived…I can’t believe the amount of people (I call them the average viewer) that haven’t seen his resurrection coming. When I remind them about Thoros/Beric, I always get a blank look back and a “Who the hell is Thoros?”

      To be fair, it was like 4-5 years ago. And if I hadn’t read the books, and had only seen the show once I might not remember that the Red Priests can revive people either.

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    3. GeekFurious,

      Would that mean that Bran has to stay warged into him all the time though? If he’s not being driven around by Bran would he just kind of collapse in a boneless dead-Jon heap?

      It’d add some levity, sure.

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    4. I don’t understand why people think Jon is more important than Bran. I believe Bran will have his own mission, his own role in story. His role is not to be a simple tool for Jon storyline.

      Jon should stay dead. I really don’t care about this boring character.

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    5. It’s this.

      Mark: The twist, that I can see happening is…Mel does her thing, revives Jon…but he doesn’t appear to be alive. Like a body without a soul. Which is because he is inside Ghost, cue Bran telling Jon to go home or some such thing a few episodes later and we have Jon back in his body.

      Jon will not suffer the effects that Beric suffered from (“…thin, sort of stretched, like butter scraped over too much bread”) because his full consciousness didn’t actually die.

      I’d like to see a “cold” opener this year with Ghost hunting.

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    6. Guys… Obviously, Jon Snow’s corpse is going to be used only as an Avatar and will be a lifeless vessel when not in use… until the Wildlings take him to the great tree and perform the ritual to mend his avatar body with his human mind… Oh wait a minute… wrong story. I can’t believe we are even having this conversation…

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    7. umuckurlife,

      Yes true, but if Mel revives him while he’s still in Ghost wouldn’t he be like…a husk? lol I don’t know what other word I can use, and I refuse to use zombie. By that though I meant, his body would be a alive but no ones inside driving, until he leaves Ghost that is to go back.

      I can see the opening scene being Ghost howling, maybe Mel or Davos opens door and Ghost runs to Jon.

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    8. Selina:
      Pounce,

      Why?

      I find Jon’s journey one of the most compelling in the series, and given all the clues we having been getting via the series that he’s a part of the very heart of the whole series. I know that not everyone agrees about everything but to say he’s boring and you want him to stay dead, like damn. Cold.

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    9. If it was anyone other than Maisie ..I will be worrying that jon is going to be a zombie…but since its Maisie I don’t care she always toys with the fans ..

      Still a trailer can help us prevent some torment ….
      Sue do you got any reports about something happening …

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    10. I can’t wait until jon gets ressurrected because seriously I’m so done with this subject. Same about R+L=J I’m glad we might have a confirmation this season so we can finally move on to another questions and discussions.

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    11. A great twist ?
      I can’t wait for Game of Thrones, Jon is one of my, if not my favorite character 🙂
      Really can’t wait to watch these cenamatic scenes they are talking about 🙂

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    12. I respect all opinions… But Jon Snow boring? (Watchers on the wall, season 4, Hardhome, etc, etc, his lines with Mance, Stannis, Kit’s acting…) Come on!!!!
      I think it’s a character with a great evolution and can’t wait to see the “new” Jon in the season 6.

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    13. Like I said in the other post, she likes to mess with reporters. No surprise there. And I STILL want that damn choker, it’s so pretty! Very glad she won, and that she loves indie films so much. She’s quite beautiful. 🙂

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    14. Already three comments about three different people of dislike, boring or stay dead. Wow. I have to wonder where these people are coming from. Maybe disgruntled with where they usually post and come here? Just speculation, but it is odd at this late stage of the “Game”.

      Anyhoooz. Bran can’t warg into a dead body. So that is out at least for a time. For Jon wargging into Ghost…it has been repeatedly brought up that Jon Snow (as far as the TV version is concerned) has never shown the ability or desire to warg anything. Odd for him to start now. I go with the Mel rezzie, but rezzied to what or whom, that is the question.

      I am also wondering why Maisie said that she “loved” making the show, as in the past tense. Also she mentioned that so much of her stuff was filmed out of sequence. I wonder if they have already filmed Maisie for season 7. Just a thought. I believe it is easy to take a word said here or there by one of the stars of GoT’s and make it into something it is not…or maybe is. 🙂 Ain’t speculation fun. 😉

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    15. JCDavis,

      I’m always here. I’m just expressing myself because bother me the way that some people have referred to Bran as if he is not important. He is equally or more important than Jon and his story is one of the best.

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    16. lord of blogfell,

      I have nothing against solid criticism with a logical explenation, but this is only appears as blind hatred towards him and without no logical explanation why. “Just boring and should stay dead.” If Jon should stay dead. Why to spend 5 books on him and then to kill him just before the final stage of the story? Since they’ve been building him up for a while with white walkers and his story is a lot about them. No need to mention Grrm hard work. He is simply not goig to kill one of the main character for the sake of shock value. To let wildlings through the wall? That was it?

      Nothing more to say really, but I’ve seen many of these comments towards Daeny in the past.

      dragonbringer:

      Still a trailer can help us prevent some torment ….

      Doubt we’ll see much of him in the trailers.

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    17. If for some reason a certain website disappears into the void, meet up at fleabottom.net to await further instructions. Bring snacks.

      -Atreyu

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    18. maisie like to play with fans first she say he is “absolutly” dead and now she is saying something else people should’t listen to her she do that for months now…

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    19. The only twist that Maisie is talking about, most probably, is that Jon will be dead but he will be resurrected. That’s it, people are just reading too much into this. This is the same actor who has enjoyed trolling people about Jon’s fate in the past too.

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    20. Jon Snowed: I really hope we do not have a semi-dead Jon Snow walking around like a zombie that would seriously suck in terms of character development and overall story arc.

      Where is the like button? Yeah, it could seriously nuke the story. Let’s cross our fingers: there are a lot of “truths” consistent with what Ms. Williams said, and not all of them are Zombie Jon.

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    21. Geralt of Rivia,

      Doesnt need to see him .but a trailer can give us a basic idea. A line or a glimpse of anyone at the wall is enough to guess what’s happening …

      Just the other day I dreamt Mel and EDd Jon’s supporters are being burned by aliser thorne and olly .

      I know its not going to happen but geez this is really getting gruesome… Just end it already I agree with kargaryen its time we get answered about this and move on to other characters.

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    22. Geralt of Rivia: “Just boring and should stay dead.” If Jon should stay dead. Why to spend 5 books on him and then to kill him just before the final stage of the story? ….

      Nothing more to say really, but I’ve seen many of these comments towards Daeny in the past.

      I’ve often wondered why people who feel like this about either Jon or Daeny read the books or watch the show. I mean, if you dislike the two #1 protagonists in a story that much: what is in it for you?

      JCDavis: For Jon wargging into Ghost…it has been repeatedly brought up that Jon Snow (as far as the TV version is concerned) has never shown the ability or desire to warg anything.

      Ditto that for Book!Jon. Another warg recognizes that Jon actively resists warging. Of course, the book also notes that wargs who “jump” into an animal in the last moment rapidly fade into that animal: it does not becomes, say, a wolf with a human mind, but a wolf with a trace of the human. Both of these seem to get ignored by the “Pro-Warging” advocates!

      By the way, I got Blackstar this weekend. It was a really solid final effort. It’s disturbing as hell, but there is some really beautiful music on it, too.

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    23. Maisie’s little Instagram video from yesterday about her dress was hilarious (if you haven’t seen it, go have a look).

      The SAG Awards are coming up, so we’re about due for a big spate of cast interviews.

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    24. Selina,

      Bran has not been as important to the narrative of the story as Jon has. The proof is the amount of chapters and screen time each has received. Jon has 42 POV chapters in the books, just behind Tyrion for the most. Bran has 21 POV chapters. Of course Bran is an important character,

      the kid is basically a God now

      , but if he was supposed to be the most important character, George should have wrote more chapters for him. Personally, I didn’t find Bran interesting until he reached Bloodraven ‘s cave, so I am looking forward to his material in the books and show. I agree with you that Bran warging into Jon’s body is just fucking ridiculous and would be awful. I would rather see Jon stay dead than see that, and Jon is my favorite character.

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    25. Jack Bauer 24,

      Last anyone saw he was getting drunk making out with women in Brazil. At least according to some locals who snapped some camera shots. And that right there is why I personally think he’s tired of Game of Thrones and the fame it brought him. I wouldn’t expect to see Kit much anymore. Not unless he’s forced to say something or make an appearance by HBO. He seems very much done with the whole thing.

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    26. JCDavis:
      I go with the Mel rezzie, but rezzied to what or whom, that is the question.

      If that audition tape of the red priestess was legit, we will dive into the whole Azor Ahai prophecy and R’hollor stuff a bit more this season.

      So if Jon gets revived that means that after having died he had been to the other side or the darkness, as Dondarrion put it. I guess it could be possible that this experience together with him learning that the resurrection had been performed by Mel will direct him towards the Lord of Light a bit more. Probably Mel will try to convince him that he is the One who was promised? So with Daeny coming over from Essos, we will have two rival Promised Ones in S7 🙂

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    27. D&d have over used the ‘only death can pay for life’ ploy a lot in the show. I think the game was up when they revealed the burning of shereen will happen in the books. The likely scenario will be Mel using the sacrifice to pay for Jons resurrection, combined with some sort of weir wood magic to show him his true parentage. That game was up when george rr said in the past. “Jon will learn who his mother is” plus the inclusion of six skins in Dance, and the entire explanation of the weir wood network. Obvious.
      However, The slight grin on my face when I saw Mel ride through the gates on the show, sealed the deal in my opinion. I believe maisie’s “twist” is the use of the weir wood network.

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    28. Mark,

      Sure. I believe that Mel will revive the body, but she’ll be confused as to why he is alive, but unresponsive. Her fires will have shown her a live Jon Snow, so she’ll continue to monitor him until he wargs from Ghost, with full mental capacity, back into his body.

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    29. doug:
      Jack Bauer 24,

      Last anyone saw he was getting drunk making out with women in Brazil. At least according to some locals who snapped some camera shots. And that right there is why I personally think he’s tired of Game of Thrones and the fame it brought him. I wouldn’t expect to see Kit anywhere he’s not forced to be by HBO, ever again.

      The red carpet premiere interviews are going to be so redundant. Everyone will be asking about Jon. Is Kit not going to attend the premiere either?

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    30. Wylie,

      Only differennce is while one is described as one time thing and unique miracle …other is happened numerous times ..if Mel does proclaim jon I would love to see all the reaction …how it will be taken now as legit and everything.

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    31. Selina,

      Selina,

      Selina: Quote

      Selina:
      Pounce,

      Bran warging Jon would be a waste too.

      its funny you say bran is the most interesting character. because I still can remember that most people said afte season 4 that they dont like his storlyine, especially casual viewers. But season 6 will be a different thing.

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    32. doug,

      That’s ridiculous
      Sorry, but Kit is nothing with out Game of Thrones. And I don’t mean regarding fame. I LOVE KIT And Jon.. theyre my favorites
      But his non- GOT work isn’t any good

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    33. Cumsprite:
      If for some reason a certain website disappears into the void, meet up at fleabottom.net to await further instructions. Bring snacks.

      -Atreyu

      Mysterious. There is probably a never ending story that would explain it tho. *runs*

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    34. Anyway, I second most of the comments here. I hope that if he does come back, he is a normal person, and not a zombie. That would be so lame.

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    35. Imagine the reaction, not only are the NW all gasping he is alive, but he is running around calling himself bran stark.

      Not only is he alive, but would sound crazy aswell, it sounds like a crap Si-if channel plot.

      this single theory would completely undermine GRRM as a decent author.

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    36. Selina:
      JCDavis,

      I’m always here. I’m just expressing myself because bother me the way that some people have referred to Bran as if he is not important. He is equally or more important than Jon and his story is one of the best.

      Actually I wasn’t just referring to you in my comment. 😉 But I too like Bran and am very anxious to read his continuing story this coming season. I am quite and if not more anxious to find out what actually DOES happen with the Jon Snow character. I think I am just in love with the whole thing really.

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    37. Wylie: So with Daeny coming over from Essos, we will have two rival Promised Ones in S7

      And if the prophecy is correct, then there is still one more to be uncovered!

      I’m betting on Obara Sand, myself…. 😀

      Tyrion Pimpslap,
      I always think of Bran and Arya as “one step below Jon & Daeny, a half step below Tyrion”: but what the hell is a half step, anyway? Bran shares the most similarities with Arya in terms of how they contribute to the story. Both are becoming “legendary” entities (an Old God and a Faceless Man). Arya definitely is fighting to remain Arya Stark while becoming No-One and Bran (hopefully!) will be fighting to remain Bran Stark while being an Old God. Both have actively used warging to get where they are. And both have spent a bit of time wandering seemingly aimlessly to get where they need to be.

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    38. Wimsey: I’ve often wondered why people who feel like this about either Jon or Daeny read the books or watch the show.I mean, if you dislike the two #1 protagonists in a story that much: what is in it for you?

      Oh, come on, that’s simple. These people fell for the ‘Martin is subverting things’ shtick, and hope that one of the things that will be subverted is the existence of protagonists. So: Jon stays dead, Dany becomes evil, Tyrion drinks himself to death, and the real hero of the story turns out to be… dunno, Stannis probably.

      I share the view of ‘get it over with the resurrection and RLJ already, I want to know what’s next’, personally.

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    39. Wimsey

      “By the way, I got Blackstar this weekend. It was a really solid final effort. It’s disturbing as hell, but there is some really beautiful music on it, too.”

      I know. I have only listened to a few tracks, but especially Lazarus was most haunting to me. Oi and a very big Vey. I plan on down loading it soon to hear the whole thing. I fear I will just weep through it all. *sigh*

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    40. Hmmm….. interesting. The way all the cast have been singing “Jon Snow is dead” tune consistently, followed by Maisie’s “great twist”, does suggest a zombie-like Jon to me. Not that zombie-like beings are unheard of in GoT. For sure, something to look forward to next seson.

      BeautyBrinne: Would that mean that Bran has to stay warged into him all the time though? If he’s not being driven around by Bran would he just kind of collapse in a boneless dead-Jon heap?

      Kudos to you for that image! 😀
      (btw, I think Bran will have a distinctly non-Jon storyline next season).

      Kargaryen: I can’t wait until jon gets ressurrected because seriously I’m so done with this subject. Same about R+L=J I’m glad we might have a confirmation this season so we can finally move on to another questions and discussions.

      Me too!!! Yes, please, not another year of R+L = J, or Jon’s life/death status.
      Let’s get the answers and move on towards the end-game of this series, which I hope will be, at least, slightly more surprising than fandom speculation presently suggests.

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    41. There have been a couple of hints that Bran would warg into Jon Snow. But would that even work if he’s dead or is that just false assumption?

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    42. As I am reading these comments I just sit her and smdh…. most of them sound like something from a Charlie Brown tv show… “bwah bwaaaaaah bwaaaaaaaaaaaah bwah” ….
      as far as this whole debate going down on who is more important Bran or Jon I’m personally sick of it. Each character is weighed out on their own merit and each character has its pro’s/con’s side to them. To me personally Jon at this stage in the story has obviously way more importance than Bran but if Jon dies for real and is no longer a part of the story than someone else will have to step in and take over that role.. be it Bran, Sansa, or Arya (for the Stark family). I don’t value one more important than the other, but value the sum of all equations and just try and enjoy their storylines. Imho… which doesn’t amount to a hill of beans ….

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    43. Jack Bauer 24,

      Of course Kit will stay out of this. or any other got event. It would spoil it for many other fans, because not everyone is in the know, as we are. A lot of people are trying to stay out of this for a good reason.

      lord of blogfell,

      I know. I shoud’ve put it to Selina’s comment. Nevermind.

      Wimsey,

      I wish to know the answer for it. Maybe they want George to subvert another trope by letting him die and stopping out bastard hero to save the world and getting on with a beautiful girl. Daeny to fall from Drogon or Tyrion slip from the stairs.

      dragonbringer,

      Weird dream. 😀 I think they’ll drag this all the way to the bank and his fate is what get many people to talk about the show. I’m tired of it, but it is what it is. So something vague about him, but nothing worth of breaking news banner.

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    44. I like Maisie’s dress and necklace. She looks wonderful. She may not be a classical beauty, but she is beautiful in her own unique way (which I prefer).

      I think the twist will be that Jon is dead, but will be resurrected by Mel (and/or someone else). That’s already enough twist for the casual watcher (I sometimes think the people here are sometimes over analytic).

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    45. Yaga: Oh, come on, that’s simple. These people fell for the ‘Martin is subverting things’ shtick

      lol…. OK, yeah, that would completely explain it!

      That written, I’ve seen this in other fandoms with long drawn-out plots and over-arching mysteris (B5, BSG, HP, Lost): you always get the “conspiracy theorist” fans who think that the primary characters are red herrings and that some minor character really is the key to it all! Well, maybe the 5th series will pay for all….

      JCDavis: But I too like Bran and am very anxious to read his continuing story this coming season.

      What makes Bran interesting to me (and maybe only me) is that he is the closest thing to a Frodo analog in this series of stories. Obviously, it’s a stretch of an analogy, as Lord of the Rings and Song of Ice & Fire are completely different stories in just about every sense. However, Bran is the small helpless one who’s carried deep into enemy territory and possibly with a very important power for ending the war. In this case, the power probably is going to wind up being information via the Weirnet, not some Ring analog. And the challenge might well be to communicate that successfully to anybody.

      I agree that the narrative has been a bit less exciting than it could have been: but I suppose that the intrigue about the end-goal (for some reason I always thought it involved Children and Old Gods: I think that idea had been around for a while before Dragons) kept me going.

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    46. Maisie is really lovely, with a fresh style (is the pattern on her dress meant to show us, again, that she’s a true fighter?), always so happy to talk about her films.
      Everyone who likes her, watch Cyberbully, she is on screen all the time, playing a complex part.

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    47. IceSpider: as far as this whole debate going down on who is more important Bran or Jon I’m personally sick of it.

      Here is how I look at it. Was Paul McCartney more important to the Beatles than Ringo Starr? Yes. Without Ringo Starr, was it the Beatles? No.

      Bran might be a Ringo (or really a George) to Jon’s & Daeny’s John and Paul, but it’s not SoI&F without Bran. Most of the characters “below” Bran are more like the sound and engineering guys on an individual album: yeah, they were important, but it was still the Beatles in the next album.

      (Just in case people were tired of David Bowie references!)

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    48. Jon’s not going to be that different. Maybe more angry, maybe a bit vengeful, but nothing outside the pall of character development. It’s not gonna be “someone else” in Jon’s body. The reason no one believes he’s done, despite being intimately familiar with the chance of anyone dying, is that we haven’t seen the payoff to all the development that has been invested in the character. Magically changing the character wastes this as much as killing him off.

      Even Beric talking about diminishing with each resurrection didn’t sound like some magical transformation; more the PTSD you’d completely expect from someone who has lived through their own murder a bunch of times. Stoneheart might be very different, but it’s pretty easy to attribute most of that transformation to witnessing [what she thought was] her last remaining [free] child’s murder; the whole vengeance remnant thing is entirely in-line with a character who was almost completely defined by protecting her family.

      For a story that is so sparing and efficient with magic, it would be monumentally sloppy to waste a resurrection on someone who’s not going to be consistent with their prior development. Bitter former Night’s Watch Jon? Sure. Evil and/or amnesiac Jon? No.

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    49. Geralt of Rivia: I wish to know the answer for it. Maybe they want George to subvert another trope by letting him die and stopping out bastard hero to save the world and getting on with a beautiful girl. Daeny to fall from Drogon or Tyrion slip from the stairs.

      Well, the first thing GRRM needs to do is publish 15 books with those things happening so that they can become tropes to subvert! That should only take a century or two…. 😀

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    50. I know everyone is “hype[d]” for the trailer, but there is zero chance that the trailer answers any questions regarding Jon. If anything, it will present even more questions. For the record, I don’t believe we’ll even know about Jon’s fate by the end-credits of episode 601 . . .

      Sure looking forward to it, though. I hope no spoilers worm their way out before the premier.

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    51. Why do people get so bent out of shape when someone doesn’t agree with them? I know we are all passionate about the show and our favorites but if someone says something negative about a seemingly popular character, people will do everything to damn them. It’s just opinion, it’s not going to influence the legion of fans.
      Either you respond to a character or you don’t. I am not a huge Dany fan. Definitely has grown on me but still not one I am invested in (in show-verse). What does it matter in the grand scheme? We are so lucky this show has such a dynamic variety of characters. There are plenty of characters to love-on. What is popular, or the obvious popular choice, to some, just don’t do it for everyone.
      This site is far more “fan friendly” than some others I have been on but it still feels, at times, that opinions need to mirror or you will be belittled. A critical thought will be bombarded with posts of how they are wrong for feeling that way. It’s very “my way or no way”…just unfortunate.

      ETA: Love Maisie’s dress. And I love when she screws with the media.

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    52. Wimsey: I’ve often wondered why people who feel like this about either Jon or Daeny read the books or watch the show.I mean, if you dislike the two #1 protagonists in a story that much: what is in it for you?

      The rest of the story, presumably.

      In my experience, people who dislike one or both of those characters didn’t start out that way. Rather, they don’t like how their stories developed (Dany having by far the most vocal dissent, particularly in relation to perceived stagnation in her story and/or people who dislike her handling of things in Meereen). By that point, they’re invested in everything else.

      Hardly unusual in any sort of serial fiction with a decent-sized cast; even if, given the nature of the property, they’re unlikely to get much satisfaction out of much of the denouement.

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    53. I’m amazed we’re still having the debate of “is he or isn’t he”. You would have to be living under a rock, be the most staunch spoiler free person in the universe, or simply not care enough (which if you’re commenting on a website, you care enough) to not know that Jon will be involved in the rest of the story. We have pictures of him on set for crying out loud!

        Quote  Reply

    54. Sean C.: The rest of the story, presumably.

      That’s sort of like being interested in the contents of a wallet for the coins rather than for the large bills! More than any other two characters (and more than most of the rest put together), Jon & Daeny are the story.

        Quote  Reply

    55. Did they announce the latest episode Jon snow would come back ?
      Because it can’t be to early and it can’t be to late.

        Quote  Reply

    56. Wimsey: I’ve often wondered why people who feel like this about either Jon or Daeny read the books or watch the show.I mean, if you dislike the two #1 protagonists in a story that much: what is in it for you?

      They’re not the #1 protagonists. Even in the show, Tyrion or Cersei are more important than them.

        Quote  Reply

    57. Nerd Stark:
      Is there any news Rhaegar is gonna be in this season?

      No, not that I’ve heard of, maybe next season ? Or maybe he is as a surprise, that would he fun.

        Quote  Reply

    58. Selina: They’re not the #1 protagonists. Even in the show, Tyrion or Cersei are more important than them.

      I wouldn’t really say that.

        Quote  Reply

    59. Wimsey,

      They’re not one step above. They’re all in the same step. I don’t measure the importance of a character by the number of lines, but by their importance for the whole story.

        Quote  Reply

    60. Selina: They’re not the story. They’re PART of the story.

      Hence the qualifier “more than any other two characters”!

      Selina: They’re all in the same step. I don’t measure the importance of a character by the number of lines, but by their importance for the whole story.

      Nor do I. However, Jon & Daeny contributed more to “kill the boy/girl, let the man/woman be born” than did Bran or Arya. They contributed more to conflicted love/hate than did Bran or Arya. They contributed more to conflicted loyalties than did Bran or Arya. They contributed more to conflicted values than did Bran or Arya. This is not to say that Bran & Arya did not make substantial contributions – they most certainly made huge contributions to those four stories – but it is to say that Jon & Daeny still made bigger contributions.

      In any ensemble, you will have your Johns & Pauls, and your Georges and your Ringos. The ensemble needs all of them: but that does not change that some contribute more than do others. It is unavoidable.

      Selina: They’re not the #1 protagonists. Even in the show, Tyrion or Cersei are more important than them.

      Tyrion comes up right behind those two. Cersei is not even in the same league as any of those characters. If nothing else, then her character has been much too static to really contribute anywhere near as much to the stories. Unlike Tyrion, Jon, Daeny, Bran or Arya, Cersei simply has not evolved much at all.

        Quote  Reply

    61. Wimsey,

      But each on their own (Dany, especially; most people who dislike dislike one, not both) they’re a comparatively small part of any given book (as are most characters). In ASOS, for instance, if you don’t like Dany, she only has 6 of about 80 chapters. If you like everything else, it’s easily overlooked. Of course, the biggest source of dislike of that character came after that, in ADWD.

      If there’s a common theme between the two, it’s people whose favourite part of the books is the more real-world political intrigue (which did indeed, to a great extent balloon in the telling almost to the point of swallowing the whole series, if you compare GRRM’s outline to what he actually wrote) and thus came to dislike the idea of the more fantastical elements intruding on it. You could see that with some of the show’s audience, actually, if you look at reviews, reactions, etc.

        Quote  Reply

    62. JohnnyLaw,

      I expect there will be some dialogue regarding his ‘death’ in the trailer. I think I am most interested in seeing a better glimpse of the TOJ sequence and perhaps a look at a new and(hopefully) improved Bloodraven.

        Quote  Reply

    63. Danial:
      GeekFurious,

      Just a little problem,bran cant warg into a corpse

      What’s to stop him from warging into a corpse? A pulse? That’s what The Others are for. It all works hand-in-hand. Or warg-in-warg.

        Quote  Reply

    64. Selina,

      Let’s see: He’s one of the few characters left with high commanding skills, who understands de big picture, and who has a possibility to communicate effectively with people from different sides -as he has done before-, specially if his parentage theory is true.

        Quote  Reply

    65. Selina: I disagree. Moreover, the series are not finished.

      We have gotten through the beginning and middle: and it’s the characters that have those major beginning -> middle parts so far (Jon, Daeny, Tyrion, Arya, Bran and maybe Sansa, although Sansa was absent from the middle) that can have the beginning -> middle -> end arcs that will make the entire tale complete.

        Quote  Reply

    66. Wimsey,

      For me some stories are more advanced than others. Everyone should culminate in the same ending, but I would not say, among these, that one has more importance than the other.

        Quote  Reply

    67. Selina,

      Of similar importance/skills/knowledge/accomplishments/knowing the real problem is the WW and not some dumb war?

      Edit: Not disagreeing with you, curious to know who you are referring to that has been demonstrated to be a main pillar of the story overall as is JS
      Who?

        Quote  Reply

    68. Wimsey: Was Paul McCartney more important to the Beatles than Ringo Starr? Yes. Without Ringo Starr, was it the Beatles? No.

      In that case, The Cavern, The Kaiserkeller and The Top Ten Club are lucky they never got done for false advertising over all those times The Beatles performed there with Pete Best.

        Quote  Reply

    69. Selina,

      I believe Bran is very important in the end game, in a different way from Jon, but important as well.

      In the books, Bran’s chapters, though not the easiest to read, always included important stuff to allowed us the readers to better understand the backstory as well as possible future outcomes.

        Quote  Reply

    70. Matthew The Dragon Knight,

      Tyrion is definitely the closest thing the show has to a main character (hence, why there has been occasional talk of submitting him for Lead Actor awards). Cersei isn’t in that league since until Season 5 she didn’t have a storyline of her own, but I believe the people who have done the math on dialogue put her in second place below Tyrion, so you can see why people might think that. The Lannisters as a whole are more prominent in the show that in the books. There are various reasons for that; writer and audience interest being one, the popularity and skill of the actors another, and they fit more with the image HBO wants to present for the show as an adult prestige drama. See, e.g., those big magazine covers from a few years ago that have Dinklage, Headey and Coster-Waldau alongside Clarke and Harington as the faces of the show. That also suits the interests of the magazine. Based solely on the show itself, there’s really no justification for Maisie not having been a bigger part of the show’s promotion all along (she got her own Entertainment Weekly cover last year, so that may be changing).

        Quote  Reply

    71. GhostCR,

      Yes, Bran is very important. I dare say that only watch the show because of him (I just watched some parts of Season 5, for example, because I don’t have interest for some parts).

        Quote  Reply

    72. Selina,

      I am not sure I quite understand.

      This story, clearly has many important characters that are key to the end game, whatever that may be.

      Are you saying that you don’t think that Jon is one those that are key to the end game?

        Quote  Reply

    73. Selina: If he is dead, other characters can grow, learn and acquire these skills as well.

      That is true if you are concerned only with plot. However, all of the things that
      GhostCR mentions are vital for the overarching story because they have so strongly affected the way in which Jon has grown/changed as a person from the boy in Thrones to the undercover agent in Clash/Swords to the empathetic Lord Commander in Dragons is going to be key in whatever the final “gag” or “gags” GRRM has had up his sleeve for all of these years. When this finally happens, we have to be able to look back at how Jon (and Daeny and Tyrion and Arya and Bran) has evolved, and point to a few key changes in their person so that we feel “ah, this all ties together.”

      Guns fired late must be hung early, after all: and that’s just as true for story as it is for plot. GhostCR is dead on: GRRM has left Jon as one of the few people with those skills for a reason!

        Quote  Reply

    74. Wimsey,

      We actually haven’t gotten through the “middle” as GRRM conceived it. The literal middle, perhaps, but what we’ve read to date is mainly a massive expansion on Martin’s “book one”. Whatever his notions were for the second and third books are still to come, presumably. Which lends the series as a whole a bit of an odd structure.

        Quote  Reply

    75. Deesensfan,

      He will be important, as well as others, but he is not only hero (or villain?) of story. I’m saying that if he was definitely dead, his role could be replaced by other characters.

        Quote  Reply

    76. Wimsey,
      Well, if it helps, I have long speculated that GOT is actually not one story, but three: the story of Jon, Dany, the WW and the War for Dawn; the story of Jaime, Cersei and Brienne (which is actually a high romance in the best Tristane-and-Iseult fashion – just think of the song that will be made of it, of the Kingslayer and the Maid of Tarth!); and finally the story of Arya and Sansa, ie the story of vengeance for Cat and Ned. I find that dividing it this way, however formally, simplifies things a lot.

        Quote  Reply

    77. Jack Bauer 24:

      Thats because Kit can’t just show up everywhere because that would kinda spoil that Jon Snow will really return in S6.
      Everyone who knows the full S6 scripts can’t simply say “Yeah, Jon will return this season and btw, sorry for that huge spoiler”. What Maisie and all other actors answer who got asked about Jon Snow said is a very simple way of secretiveness and building excitement for upcoming seasons.

        Quote  Reply

    78. Sergei Walankov: The Beatles performed there with Pete Best.

      Evolution! As John, Paul and George all later asserted, it was when Ringo joined that they really became The Beatles as opposed to the Beatles. (When Ringo threatened to leave the group in 1968 because the group was not touring anymore and because he felt that the musical experimentation was relegating him to the sidelines [and possibly because his compositions were always rejected], the other three bent over backwards to placate him: it would not be The Beatles anymore without Ringo.)

      At any rate, Bran is analogous: he’s not the “lead” of SoI&F the way that Jon and Daeny are, but he is indispensable. Perhaps Bran is more like a pre-Revolver George, whereas Tyrion is like the post-Rubber Soul George, if that works better!

      (And almost everyone under 40 is going “Who the hell are these people, anyway? How do you make a soul out of rubber?” 😀 )

        Quote  Reply

    79. Selina,

      Every character on the show is replacable except for Jon, Bran, and Daeny

      Replaceable isn’t even the correct term

      Anyway considering you didn’t watch most of season 5 (still don’t get it), you missed out on Jon’s most importance scenes I bet!
      LOL

        Quote  Reply

    80. Arguing the “importance” of characters is just generally futile. Most would say the quarterback is the most important position in football, but then you’ve got the folks who like to argue the left tackle is most important because he protects the QB, or the people who say “Offense wins games, but defense wins championships,” or those who point out that place kicker is the highest scoring position. It goes on and on, and some arguments are more convincing than others, but in the end you’re just going to lose if you don’t fill every position.

      ASoIaF/GoT are what they are because of the ensemble. There are bigger roles, and removing them would drastically change the story, but so long as the rest of the ensemble is in place there’d still be a story to tell. But for this story, the one that is actually happening and happens to have us all enthralled, each and every character is of vital importance. It just wouldn’t be this story otherwise.

      But now I really want to see an It’s a Wonderful Life version of GoT where Clarence takes Jon around to see Westeros without Jon. There could be other versions for Tyrion, Dany, and Br…

      Oh god, is Bloodraven just Clarence!?

        Quote  Reply

    81. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      At the most, the trailer may have dialogue among the Watch relating to Jon’s murder or perhaps a missing body, but we won’t get any money-shots of a reanimated Jon. The art of the trailer is always ambiguity.

      Maybe we get Davos reacting to the news of Jon’s death . . . Maybe we get Ramsey smiling at the news . . .

        Quote  Reply

    82. I know it’s absurd but is it possible that the whole Jon stabbing scene may be a dream or a flashback-A bit twilight-esque..lol Destroy the theory please..haha

        Quote  Reply

    83. Yaga: I find that dividing it this way, however formally, simplifies things a lot.

      Huh, that is an interesting and useful way to look at it. I can certainly see the distinct stories to Thrones, Clash Swords and Crows/Dragons. Perhaps a useful way to unite our two views is look at your three threads as the basic plot threads that serve as the background for creating the different types of character development?

      What is almost too tempting to note is that, yet again, it’s another “three.” That also goes back to the Babylon 5 comparisons: the truth has three sides of yours, theirs and the actual truth! GRRM seems to love the three-sided conflict as much as JMS did. (It must be some embittered ex-Catholic thing….. 😀 )

      I’ll have to think on this more, but I like this basic way of looking at it!

        Quote  Reply

    84. Selina,

      In season 6? After spending 5 season honing his skills.. it does not make a lot of sense.

      Yeah, sure other people can pick up the torch and learn some skills, but there is not much time with what is looming on. Or maybe it becomes a comunal effort: some will have the charisma to lead and strike deals, some will have the intel and the intelligence to use it… but it does not seem to be a lot of time left…

        Quote  Reply

    85. Sean C.: We actually haven’t gotten through the “middle” as GRRM conceived it. The literal middle, perhaps, but what we’ve read to date is mainly a massive expansion on Martin’s “book one”.

      That really was Thrones + Clash + Swords. Almost everything in the original Book I plot synopsis is covered by those three books, whereas almost nothing (if not just nothing) from Crows/Dragons is. Crows / Dragons was in part the 2nd planned book, and also in part a filling of a planned 5 year gap in the narrative. So if we are not past the middle (and I suspect that we are), then we definitely are in it.

      But we can also see a distinct difference in the stories. Thrones, Clash & Swords were all stories about conflicted emotions: opposing values (Thrones), mixed loyalties (Clash) and love/hate (Swords). It’s easy to see how GRRM could have “specialized” those from an original story about conflicted emotions in general, which seemed to be to what the plot synopsis pointed. Crows/Dragons was very different: it was almost a Bildungsroman with the boy/girl -> man/woman story. And I can certainly see why that is a useful “middle” story in a series of stories: after the realization that the simple “truths” we learn as children conflict with each other (the first three stories), why not follow up with a story about graduating mentally from child -> adult?

        Quote  Reply

    86. Cumsprite,
      Surely we will dine on selections of New Mexican con-queso, anything with lingonberries and for the bold some Surströmming.

      Then wash it all down with a good Arbor Gold and Mountain of the Dew.

        Quote  Reply

    87. Kilgore Tully:
      Arguing the “importance” of characters is just generally futile. Most would say the quarterback is the most important position in football, but then you’ve got the folks who like to argue the left tackle is most important because he protects the QB, or the people who say “Offense wins games, but defense wins championships,” or those who point out that place kicker is the highest scoring position. It goes on and on, and some arguments are more convincing than others, but in the end you’re just going to lose if you don’t fill every position.

      ASoIaF/GoT are what they are because of the ensemble. There are bigger roles, and removing them would drastically change the story, but so long as the rest of the ensemble is in place there’d still be a story to tell. But for this story, the one that is actually happening and happens to have us all enthralled, each and every character is of vital importance. It just wouldn’t be this story otherwise.

      But now I really want to see an It’s a Wonderful Life version of GoT where Clarence takes Jon around to see Westeros without Jon. There could be other versions for Tyrion, Dany, and Br…

      Oh god, is Bloodraven just Clarence!?

      Good lord, be careful when talking common sense like that! 😉 Could not agree more….who is ‘important’ depends on who’s point of view you’re looking from, or which storyline, if you’re looking generally or specifically, or for xyz reason…..

      I wish people would quit trying to sound like their analysis of the situation is anything but their own view. Heck, any season/book could throw in some tangent or event that none of us even consider, then what? After all, this is fiction we’re talking about. There really are no rules.

      Think of reading a book – I definitely add details or attributes in my mind that the author probably doesn’t envision in the same way. That’s not wrong, that’s the imagination’s way of tailoring the same words into different people’s minds. For book readers, I’m sure we all imagined the characters’ appearances somewhat differently. Watching the show, I may think “Gee, so and so doesn’t look like I pictured in my mind”, but that doesn’t mean I don’t have the ability to cast ‘my’ version aside and appreciate someone else’s. 🙂

      I mean, my degree is in ancient civilizations, and I still enjoy movies that are so far from ‘historically accurate’ that may only have the name of a city or a person in common.

      Stop taking everything so seriously. Especially ourselves!

        Quote  Reply

    88. Oh again a conversation about protagonists and Big 5.
      Look people YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED to not agree with the supposed big 5, or the same things will be posted in every article until everyone gets bored to death.

        Quote  Reply

    89. Sean C.,

      It’s worth remembering that originally Daenerys was supposed to reach Westeros by the end of Dance at the latest, and quite possibly sooner that that. Going by that, and accounting for how much Dany still has to accomplish in TWoW before she finally sets sail, we have a long way to go before Act II is over and done with.

      And yes, that means that the series will have a very unusual (some might say unsatisfying) structure: Act I will have spanned 3+ books, Act II another 3 (assuming most if not all of Winds belongs here) which leaves only a single book for the grand Act III finish. This is what leads many to conclude there’s no way in hell the saga ends with A Dream of Spring. Actually, since that is kind of a cool title for the last book, I fully expect Martin to announce that an additional book will take place between Winds and Dream.

        Quote  Reply

    90. Selina:
      Lyanna_Targaryen,

      The most interesting story in the series is Bran, in my opinion. So many important and well-written characters died, why his death would be an issue? I cannot understand.

      Because he’s critical to the ASOIAF narrative, and essential to the R+L theory which appears to be coming to fruition giving the filming of the tower of joy scene. He’ll probably be the sole challenger to Daenarys when the endgame rolls around, to kill him off permanently would be absurd, not that that’s going to happen now..

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    91. Pigeon: I mean, my degree is in ancient civilizations, and I still enjoy movies that are so far from ‘historically accurate’ that may only have the name of a city or a person in common.

      Cool degree! I know a few historians, and they all have said variants of this: they know that story and history are different, and thus “historical fiction” always has to be historically inaccurate to some degree; but it sometimes still gnaws at them inside! It works both ways: literary scholars will zing tales for reading too much like history sometimes. History is, after all, very arbitrary, whereas stories should not be, and if you want “history,” then watch/read historical documentaries.

      (As a biologist, I tend to get irked by bad biology in SciFi: but my thought is that it’s rarely needed to make a story, and usually just reflects laziness. Star Trek is a horrific offender.)

        Quote  Reply

    92. For me, the most interesting thing about Jon is, sadly, his parentage; it’s pretty much the only thing the character has going for him. That revelation along with a small contribution to the resolution of whatever the final conflict will be is about as much as I want to see from him.
      The idea of the whole underdog-comes-out-on-top-as-the-great-saviour at the expense of so many other genuinely interesting characters is revolting to me. And I just can’t understand the love for such a basic character in a series so full of complex and well-developed characters. But here’s hoping that stabbity-stab knocked some personality into him.

        Quote  Reply

    93. Wimsey,

      Well, and the ‘historical facts’ known about a lot of ancient civ are really only what has been found and was recorded, and what we make of it all. So it could be entirely possibly that someone attached wings on his back with was and fell from the sky…..Yeah.

      I have an undergrad degree in biology, and still can’t look at mushrooms without thinking of dissecting the poor things. We’ll leave it at mushrooms.

        Quote  Reply

    94. Wimsey:

      (As a biologist, I tend to get irked by bad biology in SciFi: but my thought is that it’s rarely needed to make a story, and usually just reflects laziness. Star Trek is a horrific offender.)

      Go and watch TNG’s Season 7 episode Genesis. It should delight and inspire you and your fellow biologists for generations to come.

        Quote  Reply

    95. Mr Fixit: This is what leads many to conclude there’s no way in hell the saga ends with A Dream of Spring. Actually, since that is kind of a cool title for the last book, I fully expect Martin to announce that an additional book will take place between Winds and Dream

      Geez, I hope not: but I fear that you might be right. This makes me doubt even more than GRRM will ever complete the series.

      I think that the biggest indicator will be whether the Walkers have gotten through the Wall by the end of Winter: I am betting that this will represent the start of the final part of the 3rd act. But I guess that I always assumed that “Winds of Winter” in some way connected to this. And I also had thought that Jon’s assassination (or attempted assassination) coupled with things like the Pink Letter were the setups for how this would happen. Well, perhaps Season 6 will leave us somewhat the wiser!

        Quote  Reply

    96. Pigeon,

      Interesting combination! It seems that most biologists I know also are interested in history: after all, evolution is a lot of history. Perhaps it works both ways?

      And, ahem: what sort of mushrooms were you “dissecting”? 😉

      Mr Fixit: Go and watch TNG’s Season 7 episode Genesis. It should delight and inspire you and your fellow biologists for generations to come.

      Was that the de-evolution one? If so, then gaggeth me with a spoon! We watched TNG all the time when I was in grad school (yeah, I’m old), and needless to say we were pretty merciless about the biology. And yet we still got together every weekend to watch it! (We had a big party for the final episode.)

      And then Babylon 5 started……

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    97. Wimsey: I’ve often wondered why people who feel like this about either Jon or Daeny read the books or watch the show.I mean, if you dislike the two #1 protagonists in a story that much: what is in it for you?

      There are two groups, the first is the subvert the trope crowd people suggest.

      But I think much much more common are the Partisans. People who absolutely cannot stand the idea that there is more than one important character in the series. The only important one being, of course, their favorite.

      Like, well of COURSE Jon is the prince that was promised, Azor Ahai, Jon Snow Stark-garyan and he will kill Dany (after she goes insane, of course) and steal Drogon from her (because she’s not really worthy anyway) while also warging Ghost and maybe assorted other Creatures and killing all of The Others personally with his Magic Sword. And then everyone will find out he’s Rhaegar’s son and they’ll Bow Down to him and decalre him King of the North and King of All Westeros. Then he’ll marry Val or something because she’s less of a threat to his Superior Hero Status.

      Or OF COURSE Dany is the only thing that matters to the series, she hatched the dragons after all, and she’ll ride in to Save the NW from The Others, kill ALL the bad guys with dragonfire so everyone loves her, then everyone will Bow Down to her and Declare her Queen of Westeros and Jon and every other heterosexual male will fall in love with her on sight. And all the people of Essos will renounce their slaving ways and she’ll be queen of a united Westeros-Essos Republic. And those Dothraki won’t pose a problem or anything, that’s just details.

      Anyway. So, basically some want to turn the story into a cliche ridden wish fulfillment fanfic. Oh, they’ll argue they have “evidence” to support it. But really it’s just that they want their favorite to have it all because they identify with that person. It’s a pretty human reaction really.

        Quote  Reply

    98. doug,

      That…makes no sense. You think he’s done with GoT because he what, went on holiday? I sincerely doubt he’s allowed to do any press at all for it, since they don’t want anything spoiled. We won’t see him until after the premiere I think.

      Deesensfan,

      He got very good reviews for Testament of Youth and Seven Days in Hell. Just depends on what projects he picks. Same for any actor really. See also: Peter Dinklage and Pixels – bad choice – and NCW and that culturally insensitive Egyptian gods movie. Yikes.

      (NCW is in a great movie called Headhunters if you haven’t seen it!)

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    99. On the topic of Historical Fiction, the BBC’s latest adaptation of the greatest historical fiction (and possibly greatest novel) ever written begins tonight, at least on BBC America! I think that I’ve read War and Peace 10 times. The newest adaptation is an attempt to be more like Tolstoy would have written it today: it should be interesting to watch.

      If you’ve ever read someone note that there is more Tolstoy than Tolkien in SoI&F, then it’s possible that this series will show why. Of course, the mild irony might be that the influence of the HBO series on the production of the BBC series will emphasize this.

      And, of course, it’s something to do while we wait for Winter to start in the spring.

        Quote  Reply

    100. Queenofthrones,

      heh, well-put! Unimaginative robot that I am, I keep failing to see how obvious these endings are! Or the one where Robb captures Kings’ Landing, beheads Joffery with Ice after uttering “He who passes the judgement shall pass the sentence,” then has Daeny kneel before him and offer her dragons to Robb before they wed (or worse) on the spot.

      OK, maybe that last one is less obvious in 2016 than it was in 2000: but GRRM can do anything he wants, right? 😀

        Quote  Reply

    101. I don’t know why the people are attacking Selina with such passion. She doesn’t like him, period, and actually, doesn’t need to justify that. And after all the comments, there’s two points with whom you can label a character boring:

      a) “The hero”. Martin is deconstructing all narrative/fantasy cliches, and Jon is the essential hero archetype and the hero’s journey. This kind of character is not even safe from “resurrecting” anymore, now there’s some kind of trend to resurrect the hero after a paranoia/dream/drug sequence. The real twist would be if Jon doesn’t resurrect, he’s a real WW or do weird things like smells other dogs’ asses (thanks to Ghost).

      b) “The protagonist”. People are usually more fond of side characters, antagonists or villians, than the protagonist him/herself. It’s not weird.

      For Maisie, I think that mastered the super difficult and special face-changing magic after like three episodes is not “slow” and “when you’re gonna do something?”. She did in one season more than the last four seasons! And more than many of the living characters! What she expects for the next season, to ride a dragon?

      About Deon Lee Williams, probably it’s the first dothraki cast with blue eyes XD Good luck, Williams!

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    102. Deesensfan:
      doug,

      That’s ridiculous
      Sorry, but Kit is nothing with out Game of Thrones. And I don’t mean regarding fame. I LOVE KIT And Jon.. theyre my favorites
      But his non- GOT work isn’t any good

      well you can say the same about emilia clarke…

        Quote  Reply

    103. iridium:
      doug,

      That…makes no sense. You think he’s done with GoT because he what, went on holiday? I sincerely doubt he’s allowed to do any press at all for it, since they don’t want anything spoiled. We won’t see him until after the premiere I think.

      Deesensfan,

      He got very good reviews for Testament of Youth and Seven Days in Hell. Just depends on what projects he picks. Same for any actor really. See also: Peter Dinklage and Pixels – bad choice – and NCW and that culturally insensitive Egyptian gods movie. Yikes.

      (NCW is in a great movie called Headhunters if you haven’t seen it!)

      You are right, most of GoT actors disappoint in cinema
      Pompeii and NCW new movie seem the same ligue for me easily. We have yet to see how hard it will bomb , to see which one was received worse. Pixels made some money.
      The problem is that Kit was in more than one bombs so far (Seventh Son, Pompeii, Testament and Spooks all bombed despite some also had other known actors), and for me this is bad luck. He still has 2 more GOT years and really he needs one success in cinema and everything will change.

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    104. SlayerNina,

      Finally someone understood my point. In a story like ASoIaF, it would be ridiculous to have a fairy tale ending. Jon is not the perfect hero in my opinion, even if he was, he is not irreplaceable. I don’t care so much about character, and especially, I don’t like the actor.

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    105. Queenofthrones:
      Like, well of COURSE Jon is the prince that was promised, Azor Ahai, Jon Snow Stark-garyan and he will kill Dany (after she goes insane, of course) and steal Drogon from her (because she’s not really worthy anyway) while also warging Ghost and maybe assorted other Creatures and killing all of The Others personally with his Magic Sword.And then everyone will find out he’s Rhaegar’s son and they’ll Bow Down to him and decalre him King of the North and King of All Westeros.Then he’ll marry Val or something because she’s less of a threat to his Superior Hero Status.

      Or OF COURSE Dany is the only thing that matters to the series, she hatched the dragons after all, and she’ll ride in to Save the NW from The Others, kill ALL the bad guys with dragonfire so everyone loves her, then everyone will Bow Down to her and Declare her Queen of Westeros and Jon and every other heterosexual male will fall in love with her on sight.And all the people of Essos will renounce their slaving ways and she’ll be queen of a united Westeros-Essos Republic.And those Dothraki won’t pose a problem or anything, that’s just details.

      This is my personal nightmare (and probably the one of the Jon/Dany haters) XDD.

      Queenofthrones:

      Anyway.So, basically some want to turn the story into a cliche ridden wish fulfillment fanfic.Oh, they’ll argue they have “evidence” to support it.But really it’s just that they want their favorite to have it all because they identify with that person.It’s a pretty human reaction really.

      I wonder who people can identify with someone so awesome, but there’s people for everything XD

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    106. Queenofthrones: Like, well of COURSE Jon is the prince that was promised, Azor Ahai, Jon Snow Stark-garyan and he will kill Dany (after she goes insane, of course) and steal Drogon from her (because she’s not really worthy anyway) while also warging Ghost and maybe assorted other Creatures and killing all of The Others personally with his Magic Sword.And then everyone will find out he’s Rhaegar’s son and they’ll Bow Down to him and decalre him King of the North and King of All Westeros.Then he’ll marry Val or something because she’s less of a threat to his Superior Hero Status.

      Or OF COURSE Dany is the only thing that matters to the series, she hatched the dragons after all, and she’ll ride in to Save the NW from The Others, kill ALL the bad guys with dragonfire so everyone loves her, then everyone will Bow Down to her and Declare her Queen of Westeros and Jon and every other heterosexual male will fall in love with her on sight.And all the people of Essos will renounce their slaving ways and she’ll be queen of a united Westeros-Essos Republic.And those Dothraki won’t pose a problem or anything, that’s just details.

      I want to punch my desk everytime I see or hear it.

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    107. Queenofthrones: There are two groups, the first is the subvert the trope crowd people suggest.

      But I think much much more common are the Partisans.People who absolutely cannot stand the idea that there is more than one important character in the series.The only important one being, of course, their favorite.

      Like, well of COURSE Jon is the prince that was promised, Azor Ahai, Jon Snow Stark-garyan and he will kill Dany (after she goes insane, of course) and steal Drogon from her (because she’s not really worthy anyway) while also warging Ghost and maybe assorted other Creatures and killing all of The Others personally with his Magic Sword.And then everyone will find out he’s Rhaegar’s son and they’ll Bow Down to him and decalre him King of the North and King of All Westeros.Then he’ll marry Val or something because she’s less of a threat to his Superior Hero Status.

      Or OF COURSE Dany is the only thing that matters to the series, she hatched the dragons after all, and she’ll ride in to Save the NW from The Others, kill ALL the bad guys with dragonfire so everyone loves her, then everyone will Bow Down to her and Declare her Queen of Westeros and Jon and every other heterosexual male will fall in love with her on sight.And all the people of Essos will renounce their slaving ways and she’ll be queen of a united Westeros-Essos Republic.And those Dothraki won’t pose a problem or anything, that’s just details.

      Anyway.So, basically some want to turn the story into a cliche ridden wish fulfillment fanfic.Oh, they’ll argue they have “evidence” to support it.But really it’s just that they want their favorite to have it all because they identify with that person.It’s a pretty human reaction really.

      You couldn’t write it better!

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    108. SlayerNina: b) “The protagonist”. People are usually more fond of side characters, antagonists or villians, than the protagonist him/herself. It’s not weird.

      If by “weird” you mean “atypical,” then I don’t think that is true! Yes, there certainly is a contingent in fandoms that are like this. But if Joe/Jane Reader or Joe/Jane Viewer does not latch on to one or more of the protagonists in a story, then they will stop watching. Instead, they will read/watch something where there is a protagonist (or two or three) onto whom they will latch. Supposedly identifying/empathizing with or interest in main characters is the #1 thing that hooks audiences on to stories, after all.

      If by “weird” you mean “abnormal,” then ignore the above. (But, then: aren’t all fans abnormal?!? 😀 )

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    109. we do not attack selina she don’t like the character but saying that he is boring when there obviously (that you like it or not) so much mystery around him and saying that every character as its part and admit in a other comment that you only watch a show for just one character and half-watch this season because his character wasn’t there i found that ridiculous

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    110. Maggie: You are right, most of GoT actors disappoint in cinema
      Pompeii and NCW new movie seem the same ligue for me easily. We have yet to see how hard it will bomb , to see which one was received worse. Pixels made some money.
      The problem is that Kit was in more than one bombs so far (Seventh Son, Pompeii, Testament and Spooks all bombed despite some also had other known actors), and for me this is bad luck. He still has 2 more GOT years and really he needs one success in cinema and everything will change.

      Kit was in Seventh Son?

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    111. Sean C.,

      Not only that, but people repeatedly fail to take into account that the Tier 1 actors (the actors who are in the highest pay bracket, and who are the top-billed actors on the show) are: Dinklage, NCW, Headey, Clarke, and Harington. That’s the exact order they appear in in the credits as of Season 5, btw, with the three Lannisters coming first (and that’s even with the limited screentime NCW had in Season 5 – wrap your brain around that). That’s not an accident. Yes, they are taking into account audience interest and the image they want to portray, but when there’s money involved as well I think it’s also safe to say that another factor is storyline importance. Look for these five to stick around right until the end of the story is my prediction. And yes, I also think Maisie and Sophie will eventually join their ranks as well.

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    112. Laura:
      Queenofthrones,

      *slow clap*

      That was great. I do believe that some people really think that’s how this is going to end. Or else with Jon on the throne with another main character as his queen. Likely Sansa, if she hasn’t already run off into a meadow of flowers with her bae The Hound. They are trailed by Gendrya, skipping behind them so they can all live in Happy Ever After land, with their giant weirwood tree brother Bran.

      I read it every day, unfortunately, it’s even getting funny.

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    113. Wimsey – that was my point entirely. That Bran is def a major role player (Ringo) but he’s NOT Jon Snow … and I think if D&D had killed off Bran rather than Jon at the season ender then we would not have nearly the reactions we had with JS. I think Bran’s role is vital for the story to continue but the story IS Jon Snow. I’m definitely in the camp that JS is going to ride this all the way to the end (maybe more hoping than knowing) but either way I can appreciate everyones character in the show regardless of the ladder of the rung they are on at this juncture of the show. As we all know the rungs can be moved up or down or eliminated altogether.. basically Im saying we can just enjoy the show and how it develops. Does this mean I am against others POV on here? Absolutely not! In fact that is my point altogether.. stop caring who is in your camp or not as far as who is more important.. sigh…

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    114. Laura:
      Queenofthrones,
      *slow clap*

      That was great. I do believe that some people really think that’s how this is going to end. Or else with Jon on the throne with another main character as his queen. Likely Sansa, if she hasn’t already run off into a meadow of flowers with her bae The Hound. They are trailed by Gendrya, skipping behind them so they can all live in Happy Ever After land, with their giant weirwood tree brother Bran.

      Yah I think that most sane fans realize that GRRM (and D&D) is neither writing bad cliche fanfic where everything is puppies and roses NOR subverting every possible expectation such that the plot is completely random. Instead, we have complicated situations with complicated nuanced characters doing sometimes unexpected things but leading to an overarching plot that makes sense.

      Complicated and nuanced are pretty hard to get across / defend in internet land though. So the crazies end up getting the most attention.

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    115. selina
      yes…if it goes with what you said why saying that characters are all equals no matter the storyline and then saying that you barely watch a season because your favorite character wasn’t there?for me you just admit that for you bran story is more interesting an better so you have no real reason to bash jon if you don’t even what he have done this season….

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    116. kit_hepburn:
      Sean C.,

      Not only that, but people repeatedly fail to take into account that the Tier 1 actors (the actors who are in the highest pay bracket, and who are the top-billed actors on the show) are: Dinklage, NCW, Headey, Clarke, and Harington. That’s the exact order they appear in in the credits as of Season 5, btw, with the three Lannisters coming first (and that’s even with the limited screentime NCW had in Season 5 – wrap your brain around that). That’s not an accident. Yes, they are taking into account audience interest and the image they want to portray, but when there’s money involved as well I think it’s also safe to say that another factor is storyline importance. Look for these five to stick around right until the end of the story is my prediction. And yes, I also think Maisie and Sophie will eventually join their ranks as well.

      While you have a point and you’re totally right about the top billed actors being there in part to the choice of D&D to increase the screen presence of the other Lannisters relative to their book presence, I think that D&D are still going to do with Jaime and Cersei roughly what GRRM told them he intends to do. Which I think for Cersei at least means she has to die before the last season (and maybe Jaime too).

      After all, Sean Bean and Michelle Fairley were top billed before they died. That didn’t stop D&D from killing them when the plot demanded it. I don’t think that they will bend the plot in order to keep NCW and Headey around longer any more than they did for Bean and Fairley.

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    117. Chilli:
      I think the twist will be that Jon is dead, but will be resurrected by Mel (and/or someone else). That’s already enough twist for the casual watcher (I sometimes think the people here are sometimes over analytic).

      You have a brilliant thought here. We sometimes forget that the casual viewers outnumber us a million to one and they are who the show is directed towards.

      Thanks for your insight.

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    118. IceSpider,

      And just for the record: I love Ringo!

      Vegodread: We sometimes forget that the casual viewers outnumber us a million to one and they are who the show is directed towards.

      And the casual readers outnumber us hundreds of thousands to one. For all the GRRM talks a lot to his fans, his books succeed/fail based on how they receive them, not us: and GRRM would be a fool to write for us instead of the myriad casual readers.

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    119. kit_hepburn,

      Just call the producers and tell them they pay the wrong big 5. Internet knowssss

      Queenofthrones,

      The problem is we don’t really know when and how they will really die so far.
      There is no prophecy for Jaime at all, and while there is for Cersei her death may come to the very end by a queen like Sansa and Dany.. unless this is really ragnarok and everyone just dies in the end, politics can exist till the last episode and Cercei/Jaime/Theon/Sam/Arya (and it goes on) can die in one of the last chapters or episodes here. Not even the original plotline mentions Jaimes (now Cersei’s death). They are there not because of the actor but because of the character also..non book readers for sure believe Cersei is one of the shows main characters (and i don’t even like her)

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    120. guys every characters have its importance but i don’t buy the “they are all equals”thing some characters have more impact than others,more populars,more interesting than others, i always saw the journey of bran boring since book 1 it change a bit with dance with the flashback he have but its still boring i skip a lot of his chapters however his goal and characters around him are really interesting and bran will problaby be a huge key tio the endgame but let just say it no majority were upset when they heard that he will not be in season 5 i didn’t really miss him if dany or jon were absent 80% will be upset about it no matter the story fantasy,dark fantasy,high fantasy,thriller etc they will always have major characters that just it…

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    121. Queenofthrones,

      No no, I agree that they aren’t going to bend the plot. They may slightly alter timeframes though with decisions regarding where to end one season and begin another. But I’m one who thinks Lena Headey is pretty much going to stick around right until the end, with Cersei probably being one of the casualties of Winter, biting it around the beginning of Season 8. I’m also of the opinion that everyone is totally wrong about Jaime’s universally assumed demise, and predict that he makes it to the end of Season 8, or doesn’t die at all. We shall see of course.

      You’re right, Sean Bean and Michelle Fairley were top-billed and that didn’t stop D&D from killing them. They knew that right from the beginning though, seeing as their deaths in the books were already published and well-known. For the current remaining top-billed actors, I suspect now that they are heading into the home stretch, D&D are needing to be straight with them regarding their status, pay grade, and how long they need them for (and like I said, my suspicion is that the answer is: “we need you for the whole duration… here, have some money.”) I think (though don’t know for sure) the time to kill off the top-billed actors/characters has passed, and if they are going to do it, it’s not going to be until the very end. I believe Kit was the last one, and that he was just a red herring (obviously).

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    122. emperor: There is no prophecy for Jaime at all, and while there is for Cersei

      There is no prophecy, but there is a very strong foreshadowing:

      Cersei states that she and Jaime will depart the world together. Add that to the prophecy, and we can predict that Jaime will die killing Cersei.

      The original plotline would not have mentioned this, simply because that was the original plot synopsis through what is now Swords: and GRRM certainly intended this death to come much later than that.

      kit_hepburn: You’re right, Sean Bean and Michelle Fairley were top-billed and that didn’t stop D&D from killing them.

      Billings also have a lot to do with the name of the actor involved. The well-known ones tend to come at the very front or at the very end. Bean and to a lesser extent Fairley had resumes preceding this. Ditto that for Headey, Addy & Dinklage. R.H.I.P.!

      There also are rules concerning billings such as “featuring” and “also starring” and those terms, but I forget how they work. The Fellowship of the Ring “Featured” Sean Bean and Ian Holmes, for example.

      kit_hepburn: I think (though don’t know for sure) the time to kill off the top-billed actors/characters has passed

      The other issue is that the no-names of Season 1 now are names: Harrington, Clarke, Williams, Turner, etc., now are names in their own rights, and their future works are going to emphasize that they are from Thrones.

      As for the contract status, this has come up with Harrington. He (like most of the others) is under contract for one more season with the show after the 6th, and possibly now for the 8th, too. (I have no idea if there were “option” clauses for an 8th season, or if those have to be negotiated from scratch, or if it varies among actors.) If they kill one of these characters for good, then they don’t do any filming and are free to pursue any other project: but if the actors are contractually obligated to do filming if called upon to do so.

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    123. Anything other than Mel ressing Jon would now be needlessly convuluted. If Thoros doesn’t need to sacrifice people to ressurrect folks then why would Mel? Sacrificing Olly, Davos, Ghost,etc to bring him back would be a move for shock factor only IMO. I think Shireen may have been intended to be a sacrifice in the books but that ship has sailed for the show. Not sure if a replacement is really needed.

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    124. Wimsey: There is no prophecy, but there is a very strong foreshadowing:

      The original plotline would not have mentioned this, simply because that was the original plot synopsis through what is now Swords: and GRRM certainly intended this death to come much later than that.

      Original plotline doesn’t write about Jaime who now is Cersei in the story we read..so that means Cersei will not die so soon. The Jaime we see now is either part of plotline’s Tyrion or a new character .
      Words are wind, Cersei is 98% wrong in what she says. She is also sure Jaime didn’t got her letter, this is not foreshadowing, this is a crazy womans who want to take her lover with her., plus Jaime doesn’t agree that this will happen since he left her die.. There is also a strong foreshadowing for Arya being frozen “”You’ll be sewing all through winter. When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers.” So that means plotline is wrong and doesn’t survive…ooo

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    125. Queenofthrones,

      I have yet to see someone say those things about dany ….while there are many about jon part …

      Maggie,

      The fact that cersei is taken from Jamie the outline should be clear that they came together and will leave together because she is what he is supposed to be …two in one ..

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    126. Jack Bauer 24:
      Emilia says Season 6 has the “largest moments on television that have ever existed.” http://afilm.website/game-of-thrones-season-6-will-see-the-biggest-minutes-on-tv-ever-says-emilia-clarke/

      Not hyperbolic at all, then? Jeez. I mean, I get it: while they have to say SOMETHING and promote the show, they can’t spoil anything AT ALL… so they just spout out generic hyperbolic shit like that. I shouldn’t complain. It’s a difficult position to be in.

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    127. Luka Nieto,

      Well after Ned death, birth of dragons ,blackwater,red wedding ,dracarys,watchers on the wall ,hard home and dance of the dragons and for the watch are anything to go by ….we know what she says is going to happen.

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    128. TheTouchofFrost:
      Anything other than Mel ressing Jon would now be needlessly convuluted. If Thoros doesn’t need to sacrifice people to ressurrect folks then why would Mel? Sacrificing Olly, Davos, Ghost,etc to bring him back would be a move for shock factor only IMO. I think Shireen may have been intended to be a sacrifice in the books but that ship has sailed for the show. Not sure if a replacement is really needed.

      Yes. Those scenes in season 3 most certainly would not have made the show if they weren’t vital to the story at some point.

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    129. Wimsey:
      Pigeon,

      Interesting combination!It seems that most biologists I know also are interested in history: after all, evolution is a lot of history.Perhaps it works both ways?

      And, ahem: what sort of mushrooms were you “dissecting”?

      Well, that probably would have yielded much more interesting lab reports!!! 😀 I just say I’m a Classical Biologist. My degree was Classics, but the last year of it, the program split into 2 directions, History and Ancient Near Eastern Archaeology. So I was the last Classics degree designation, with an option of History or Archaeology if I wanted to do a Master’s (I didn’t), but with my photo in the hall of the Archaeology building. It really didn’t have to make sense…my most interesting prof was a forensic anthropologist, and did and still does work with the police on very old cold cases. Nifty and keen.

      Jack Bauer 24:
      Emilia says Season 6 has the “largest moments on television that have ever existed.” http://afilm.website/game-of-thrones-season-6-will-see-the-biggest-minutes-on-tv-ever-says-emilia-clarke/

      I can only hope this means Jorah gets some before greyscale gets him! 😛

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    130. And I’m serious guys and gals – if anyone knows where I can find the Markus Lupfer choker Maisie is wearing, I will owe you big time. 😮

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    131. Jack Bauer 24:
      Emilia says Season 6 has the “largest moments on television that have ever existed.” http://afilm.website/game-of-thrones-season-6-will-see-the-biggest-minutes-on-tv-ever-says-emilia-clarke/

      Listen man, I don’t really like falling into the hype when it comes to other shows, if other shows say that I would normally call BS. But when it comes from Game of Thrones, I believe it. The Ned stark beheading, Blackwater, Red wedding, battle for the wall, hardhome, dance of dragons, and the jon stabbing, I know season 6 has plenty of goodies for me to enjoy. and after reading all the spoiler news, She speaks the truth….. 0_0

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    132. I think they would have already set up the warging capabilities of Jon if they were going to use it in the show. They haven’t even hinted about it…and, he didn’t call out to Ghost at the “end”…so, I really don’t think they are going that direction. And Jon sure didn’t look like a Zombie Jon in that leaked Bastard Bowl pic, so I don’t think they are going that direction either.

      I’m wondering if they will use Arya’s warging abilities or if they will leave that skill exclusively to Bran for the show.

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    133. Sullied by Knight:
      I think they would have already set up the warging capabilities of Jon if they were going to use it in the show.They haven’t even hinted about it…and, he didn’t call out to Ghost at the “end”…so, I really don’t think they are going that direction. And Jon sure didn’t look like a Zombie Jon in that leaked Bastard Bowl pic, so I don’t think they are going that direction either.

      I’m wondering if they will use Arya’s warging abilities or if they will leave that skill exclusively to Bran for the show.

      I’m not the first to say this, but most overanalyze this entire thread. You’re 100% correct. They wouldn’t have included Mel meeting with Thoros and Beric, even going as far as discussing resurrection, if it wasn’t important. The show isn’t going to waste any valuable time on scenes. The overanalysis is the resurrection: why can’t Jon be brought back by Mel and just be himself?

      And as far as Arya and Nymeria, I guess they still have time to introduce her as having warging abilities, but can we potentially see an ending coming together without her doing so? I think so. IMO Dan and Dave look to keep things simplified: Arya is a trained killer and Bran is the warg.

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    134. dragonbringer:

      The fact that cersei is taken from Jamie the outline should be clear that they came together and will leave together because she is what he is supposed to be …two in one ..

      Problem is, you’re ignoring about 98% of what their actual plots are trying to lay out for the reader (a gradual separation of two beings who were once “one”). But agree to disagree I guess. The show will provide some answers over the next three years no doubt.

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    135. Sean C.,

      I,for starters,loved the Dany character at first but as time passed on I lost the bond with it…although I can´t give you a proper answer as to why…It is certainly intriguing to me what makes you like/dislike an imaginary character 🙁

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    136. kit_hepburn,

      Where did I say they are still together. But whatever he feels towards cersi he is not going to wake up one day and leave everything his position and king and only child remaining alive and his family whatever left of it in the hands if cersei and take brienne to bravos and happily live after …
      If jamie is the one whokills cersei .then they have to have differences why else would jamie kill her ..
      We dont need three seasons to know this ..this srason alone will give us an idea what will be happening and
      I really think you overestimate chances of survival ..they will not go to 8th season imo and will die at the end of 7 th season
      Let’s just waitand see

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    137. A Name of Thrones,

      For sure Mel is the one to help him in the show, but books could be a different in this. If Jon is to remain same person. Then what would be the point of killing him? To free him from his vows? Sounds cheap and like Gandalf’s return which Grrm is not fond of. It will change him in some way.

      FanofTyrion,

      I wonder, how exactly he will be important figure in the endgame. His talent for politics, use of strategy or something else? What do you think?

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    138. dragonbringer:
      kit_hepburn,
      Where did I say they are still together.

      Well… you said they were going to die together, so presumably they would be together in the same vicinity again for that to happen.

      But whatever he feels towards cersi he is not going to wake up one day and leave everything his position and king and only child remaining alive and his family whatever left of it in the hands if cersei and take brienne to bravos and happily live after …

      Lol. Well, that’s a nice thought, but I definitely didn’t say that.

      Ifjamie is the one whokills cersei .then they have to have differences why else would jamie kill her ..

      Convoluted tragic “love story” is a reason I often see cited, but sure.

      We dont need three seasons to know this ..this srason alone will give us an ideawhat will be happening and
      I really think you overestimate chances of survival ..they will not go to 8th season imo and will die at the end of 7 th season
      Let’s just waitand see

      Well, sure we will. What I said was my estimation of where this story is going, all things considered. I don’t have a crystal ball at my disposal, only textual evidence from a tv show.

      I’m going to out myself as a bit of a hypocrite in regards to how I perceive Martin’s use of certain classic tropes and formulas (which I argued against in another thread). It’s just when I started coming online for this show originally around Season 3, I considered Jaime’s arc one of the more straightforwardly identifiable ones. His, above all, is a Beauty and the Beast tale, and a story of redemption (from the mouth of the author). It is not, I don’t think, a tragedy. It bears no real resemblance to the structure of a tragedy, not the least of all because when we enter his PoV, a few chapters later he is at his lowest point. And his character has only grown from there. That’s not the hallmark of a tragedy… in fact, it’s almost… well, it’s almost more the marker of a comedy, to be totally honest with you (starts on a low note, ends on a high note). But anyway. When I came online I realized that practically everyone disagreed with me and told me that what we were really watching/reading was a tragedy more akin to Romeo and Juliet or Othello than something like Taming of the Shrew, lol. And I disagreed. I still do, which is why I spend entirely too much time talking about it even though I never intended to in the first place. I still believe, if you lift out his story, Jaime’s is the most straightforward narrative in the whole damn tale. And it’s not leading to a mutual death pact or unintentional suicide with Cersei.

      Ah well. As you said – we shall see what we will see.

      PS. On the other hand – Jon’s arc? Daenerys’ arc? Arya’s arc? Sansa’s arc (especially Sansa’s arc), BRAN’S arc? Yeah. Have no idea. lol. He’s using a lot of non-traditional formulas with those guys, I think.

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    139. Al Swearengen:

      Maybe she means the manner of Jon’s return. There has to be something more to his resurrection than Mel simply casting Raise Dead (if she memorised it the night before in one of her available spell slots). It’ll be rather anticlimactic if Jon just wakes up 15 minutes after the big cliffhanger, bitchslaps Olly, and starts a bromance with Davos.

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    140. Selina,

      Jon isn’t a perfect hero; there are no perfect heroes or villains in ASOIAF, which I think adds to what makes it stand out. No doubt Bran also has a big part to play but honestly, the last book Bran was in was nearly torture to read and he hasn’t been in the TV show for a year so my enthusiasm needs to build back up.

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    141. Geralt of Rivia,

      For sure Mel is the one to help him in the show, but books could be a different in this. If Jon is to remain same person. Then what would be the point of killing him? To free him from his vows? Sounds cheap and like Gandalf’s return which Grrm is not fond of. It will change him in some way.

      But he’s not going to change too much either, otherwise what was the point of the 5 seasons building up to killing him?

      And wouldn’t having him wake as Jon Mk II be a bit too Gandalf-esque too?

      I think any change in Jon’s character will gradually wear off. Especially once/if he comes back into contact with family.

      There’s got to be room in his post-resurrection character for Melisandre to have a malevolent influence, for any reunion with any Starks to have some poignance, and for things like killing the Boltons and capturing Winterfell to have some emotional resonance.

      He’ll be changed. But not too much. Probably just a bit more ruthless, less trusting and more single-minded.

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    142. billyboy:
      maisie like to play with fans first she say he is “absolutly” dead and now she is saying something else people should’t listen to her she do that for months now…

      Slight(ish) spoiler from The Abominable Bride: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br4bF25xetY

      Watson: Sherlock, hang on! Explain. Moriarty’s alive then?
      Sherlock: I never said he was alive. I said he was back.
      Mary: So he’s dead?
      Sherlock: Of course he’s dead. He blew his own brains out. No one survives that. I just went through the trouble of an overdose to prove it. Moriarty is dead, no question. But more importantly, I know exactly what he’s going to do next.

      Maisie’s really like, “I never said he was ‘alive.’ I said there was ‘a twist.’ Of course he’s dead! He got like a dozen knives in the chest. No one survives that. Jon Snow is dead, no question. But more importantly, I know exactly what he’s going to do next.”

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    143. Sullied by Knight,

      I see exactly what you’re saying, and I certainly think Mel will try. That’s the only thing about which I’m certain. I do think, however, there is a chance we will see Jon warg. Why, at least in terms of the show? Well, Bran is back in this season. What if, and this is really a “what if,” they reintroduce Bran and his warging as, in some way, a segue into Jon warging…further,

      since we know Arya is a warg, too, what if they piggyback off reminding the audience what a warg is, that Bran is one, then show both Arya and Jon are, too?

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    144. Mr Fixit,

      He’s surely got to be resurrected on the funeral pyre. Don’t ask me how. Melisandre reciting R’hllor incantation, plus Shireen sacrifice hangover, plus Targaryen / Azor Ahai resurrection bonus.

      They’ve got to find a way of making it categorically clear to the casual viewer that he is now free of his Night’s Watch duties, and they can do that by having the Night’s Watch do the whole “and now his watch is over” routine over his body.

      The obvious question is, why would the Night’s Watch let a man rising from the dead from his funeral pyre walk out of Castle Black?

      But why would they let a man who they murdered 5 minutes beforehand and who was just resurrected by a witch walk out of Castle Black either?

      I guess we’ll have to wait and see how the producers work that one out. A funeral pyre resurrection might give the producers an excuse to get a few Wildlings on site to stand up for the man that saved their lives.

      But it’d definitely provide the opportunity to establish that his oath to the Night’s Watch is over and it’d mean the producers could delay the resurrection for the best part of an episode or maybe into the second.

      It’d also leave some time to establish that he’d temporarily warged into Ghost, if that turns out to be the case.

      Whereas, as you say, if Melisandre just appears to resurrect him shortly after his death it could be a bit anti-climactic.

      The only other real option is that Melisandre and Davos spirit his body away from Castle Black somehow and resurrect him shortly after. But, again, why would the Night’s Watch just allow the body of the man they just murdered to disappear without knowing what happened to it/him? And would Mel and Davos have time to pop up to the Lord Commander’s chambers to pick up Longclaw?

      No, the funeral pyre resurrection is the most likely, in my opinion.

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    145. Wimsey: I’ve often wondered why people who feel like this about either Jon or Daeny read the books or watch the show.I mean, if you dislike the two #1 protagonists in a story that much: what is in it for you?

      I don’t get the haters, either. Just pull an Elsa and let it go, people.

      At the same time, Dany is among my least favorite protagonists. The great thing about Thrones, though, is that if you dislike one or two characters, there are still hundreds more to love. If the books were all Dany, all the time, I’d most likely skip them. I read for Tyrion, Arya, Jon, Brienne, Alleras, Sam, Bran, Hodor, and the list goes on and on and on. I still read Dany’s part because I recognize that she’s one of the most important players and I don’t want to miss any of the story, but I find that I forget her parts much more easily than the rest.

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    146. Wimsey: Was Paul McCartney more important to the Beatles than Ringo Starr? Yes. Without Ringo Starr, was it the Beatles? No.

      Interviewer: “Is Ringo the best drummer in the world?”

      John Lennon: “Ringo isn’t even the best drummer in The Beatles.”

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    147. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      They certainly COULD do it, but it might just be too much story to work in there in the midst of all of the other story lines they have to tell in the limited number of hours they are given. Adding the additional season certainly gives them some breathing room. It is going to be interesting to see how they handle it all and I hope they surprise us all with something we haven’t even considered. BTW – have we seen Arya warg yet in the show? I can’t remember if they’ve gone there yet.

      Regarding Mel – she has to be at a very low point in confidence after realizing how wrong she was about Stannis. If she is the one to resurrect Jon, I think it won’t be easy for her.

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    148. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      I agree with the idea of the funeral pyre being most likely, but I definitely don’t think there will be any wildlings present. I mean, they just killed their Lord Commander for letting wildlings through, so I don’t think they will welcome them for a funeral.

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    149. Ginevra,

      I sure miss John…

      I’d say Bran will be more like George Martin in the big scheme of things. Imparting knowledge and keeping everyone focused and working toward the finish. 😉

        Quote  Reply

    150. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      I think there is a strong chance (20-50%) that we’ll see warging in the books in addition to resurrection. I think there is even a slight chance (5-20%) that we’ll see it in the show.

      Unlike Wimsey, I don’t think that we have to see Jon warg before this moment to see him warg now, when his life depends on it, especially since he’d be warging with his familiar. While the series has established the difficulty of warging into especially a person or even an animal for an extended period, I don’t think a Stark warging into his familiar direwolf for the few minutes that it might take to be brought back would be so unbelievable. Hundreds of Stark Kings have wolf-warged before him, and there has to be a first time for everything, right?

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    151. Jon will kneejerk warg into Ghost where he’ll bump into Bran. Bran will tell him to get up and walk out like he saw his mother tell Robb in a vision. [Ghost must be loose or else there would have been a shot of him locked up unless they ran out of money.] The Night’s Watch will stick Jon’s “corpse” in an ice cell until the pyre is built.

      Mel will be creepin’ around Castle Black for Jon only to be told he’s sleeping in an ice cell for treason. Mel will tell Davos & he’ll argue they need to leave ASAP. Mel will refuse to leave without seeing Jon. They will confront Edd about what happened & tell him to take them to Jon’s “corpse.” Edd will open the ice cell and Mel will give Jon one last kiss. Since Jon is getting his warg on, he does not wake up. Jon will survive the pyre because he was unconcious & half targ but Mel will take credit.

      Alliser will shit his pants and he and Othell will decide Jon must stand trial for treason and witchery. Jon will tell them they said his watch ended & he is as free as the free folk.

      Mel will tell Jon she saw his sister in her fires, fleeing an arranged marriage & coming for him at the Wall. Jon will tell her she was wrong about Stannis and she’s wrong about Sansa. Davos will tell Jon he’s seen things crawl out of nightmares just as he spots the Pink Letter on Jon’s table.

      Jon will tell Alliser he can keep the Night’s Watch because he’s leaving and any man who wishes to take his head for it can bloody well try. Jon will then shrug off his black cloak like Django unchained. He will tell the wildlings they can leave if they wish or they can fight for him against the Boltons as free folk. Jon will take Longclaw, Ghost, Wun Wun, Tormund, a Red Priestess, muthafuckin’ Davos and a horde of wildlings to Winterfell to “return Ramsay’s bride” in person.

      [Could the scene with a giant at the gates of Winterfell be one of Bran’s visions of the future?]

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    152. What I’m wondering is, if Jon gets resurrected and pops up from the pyre/grave/cell/etc fit as can be, would the NW really have any gall whatsoever to tell him anything? Especially if you were one of his ‘killers’? I mean, I’m no shrinking violet, but I kind of feel like the response would be *shit self and run away*, *shit self and attack him and die*, or *shit self and do whatever the fuck he wants*. Especially as there are so few left, you know?

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    153. Pigeon,

      You are no shrinking violet… you are an orange zinnia. From outer space! I agree. Whatever the outcome for J2, there will be lots of remaining Night’s Watchmen shitting themselves. Too bad they don’t wear brown (too much Deadpool trailer viewage, sorry).

      This is, of course, unless J2 gets smuggled out….

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    154. JCDavis:
      Wimsey

      “By the way, I got Blackstar this weekend. It was a really solid final effort. It’s disturbing as hell, but there is some really beautiful music on it, too.”

      I know.I have only listened to a few tracks, but especially Lazarus was most haunting to me.Oi and a very big Vey.I plan on down loading it soon to hear the whole thing.I fear I will just weep through it all.*sigh*

      Wimsey- Yes! JCD- Double yes!! Get it. If you saw Lazarus, there is also a video online for the song Blackstar, which is… wow. No words. Except as Wimsey said, both disturbing and beautiful.

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    155. Sister Kisser:
      Pigeon,

      You are no shrinking violet… you are an orange zinnia.From outer space!I agree.Whatever the outcome for J2, there will be lots of remaining Night’s Watchmen shitting themselves.Too bad they don’t wear brown(too much Deadpool trailer viewage, sorry).

      This is, of course, unless J2 gets smuggled out….

      An orange zinnia? This explains a lot……hmmmm. I better check my sun exposure. 😮

      Oh Deadpool. I can’t wait! 🙂

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    156. Selina:

      Jon should stay dead. I really don’t care about this boring character.

      Agreed 100%! I think he’s the dullest of the major characters, both in the books and on the show.

      I know he’ll be of great importance in the story, but I’d be just fine if he wasn’t.

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    157. Ginevra,

      I suspect, and hope, that the quote you attribute to Lennon is apocryphal. Certainly the implication that Paul was a better drummer than Ringo is untrue. In fact, Paul couldn’t drum for shit:

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    158. Al Swearengen,
      Oh, but it’s not what you do, it’s how you do it. Shireen’s death may have been telegraphed, but it still hit.

      There seem to have been two main threads of conversation recently: Jon and Jaime/Cersei. FWIW, I hope that for Jon, they will omit the warging on the show – Ghost will be just a sacrifice, the way the stuff on the funeral pyre in S1 was the sacrifice for the awakening of dragons. The warging seems such a… cringeworthy technicality to me, I don’t want to see it. Also, I hope that he will come back more single-minded and purposeful. A weapon, not a person. And, specifically for all those who would see him end on the Iron Throne, I would hope that, like Dany, he would return infertile, if not also ace. (I think both he and Dany will die when magic leaves the world again, together with everything else powered by it.)

      And Jaime/Cersei? I think that they will die together… the Jaime-Cersei-Brienne triangle is a story of honour, and when Cersei finally goes over the edge and threatens to destroy King’s Landing, I think that Jaime will have no choice but to abandon Brienne and return to KL to destroy his family’s last monster. Honour-bound, you know? The story just feels right to me this way.

      But hey, let’s see how it turns out. ?

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    159. Sergei Walankov,

      You’re right that Lennon didn’t actually say that. It was some DJ or another and was attributed to Lennon. But I’d say Paul’s an alright drummer or he could at least handle the few songs he played drums on. He would NEVER claim to being better than Ringo though.

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    160. Maisie was fine in Doctor Who, as she has been in everything I’ve seen her in, particularly when she’s had an actual strong script to work with (i.e. Cyberbully). Judge people by their haters – in Maisie’s case, people who never seem able to string two sentences together.

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    161. TheTouchofFrost,

      I’m of the opinion that Shireen will be sacrificed by Mel and/or Selyse to bring back Jon. They changed it to Stannis/Mel/Selyse in the show because to certain audiences would look poorly upon Jon if his being brought back to life was executed through the fiery sacrifice of an innocent girl. So they made Stannis into a tragic figure instead. He’s not an end game player whereas Jon most definitely is. In terms of narrative priority Stannis gets the infamy for Shireen’s death whilst Jon gets the mantle of The Lord’s chosen.

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    162. Joshua Atreides:

      I’m of the opinion that Shireen will be sacrificed by Mel and/or Selyse to bring back Jon.

      Wow, that would have been – will be? – great. No doubt it’s not a new idea among the fandom, but I’d never considered it before. It’s certainly in keeping with the series’ overarching theme of morally complicated bittersweetness – and a lot more satisfying that what happened on the show.

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    163. Greenjones,

      I am way out of context here as I didn’t see much of the above conversation, but Ringo is a badass mutherfucker. So good. People forget how crucial good drumming is to music- especially rock and roll and pop. I guess in the shadow of Lennon, McCartney, and Harrison it’s easy to get looked over, but seriously- Ringo brought those songs to life. He could change feel or tempo on a dime. I also don’t think Paul would suggest superiority- however, there was tension between he and Harrison there, because McCartney felt he was a better…. shredder, for lack of a better term, and took up lead guitar duties on a lot of the later recordings.

      Is the idea that Bran is to Jon as Ringo is to Paul, or…. John? And therefore, less important? Well that makes me hope even more that Bran gets into Jon’s head at some point- at least to some degree.

      The heart is a drum machine, after all.

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    164. Sergei Walankov,

      He’s also good on Dear Prudence (though through the power of overdubs, not a single solid take). When it was up to him though he let Ringo play. He’d only do it when it was a matter of necessity.

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    165. Joshua Atreides,

      This is my take as well, and I agree on the rationale here for why the show runners may have avoided pinning Shireens’ sacrifice on Jon. One route I’ve been thinking about the show could go, is to somehow attribute the power of this resurrection to a previous sacrifice (Shireen)- therefore restoring some value on the sacrifice and avoiding all the “Jonguilt” that may have come with specific intent. Maybe Jon’s resurrection could still be attributed to the sacrifice, but more as an unintentional, net positive outcome.

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    166. Greenjones,

      Fair call – I could never have told you it wasn’t Ringo on Dear Prudence (without referring to my dusty old Mark Lewisohn book), which can only be a good thing.

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    167. Sister Kisser,

      Shireen’s sacrifice did something.

      It proved to Mel that Stannis was not the chosen one, wich convinced Mel to return too CB, something she could do because the snows melt, they melted because of Shireens sacrifice.

      My take is that in the books Mel will burn Shireen. But nothing happens, or they recive more latters comfirming Stannis’s death. This will convince Mell that Stannis isn’t the chosen one.

      In both mediums I belive that the sacrifice won’t revive Jon directly but it will be what convinces Mel that she should forget about Stannis and help Jon instead.
      Basically what happened in the show.

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    168. GeekFurious,

      Late in finding this thread…busy day, finally check in and surprised to see a new and very active post! I’ve got some reading material before bed yay 🙂 Now what was I going to say? Drats I forget what you even said…brb…oh yes the Bran warging into Jon some of us said that’s what it seems to be alluding to months ago when the teaser came out and they showed Dead Jon, then a light come over him, then image of Bran warging. We were told it’s crazy to believe they’d have Bran warg a dead body, not possible etc. I would tend to agree except for there is the tiny matter of us only seeing a spolier of him for just the one battle of bastard episode. You’d think if he were resurrected right away and has an arc throughout season 6 there’d have been more sighting. I know if they did do a Bran-warg, it would not appeal to me whatsoever and I can’t think of why it would to anyone except those few who don’t like/care about Jon and want more of Bran.

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    169. Mihnea,

      In what way did Shireen’s sacrifice prove to Mel that he wasn’t the one she was looking for? Because their camp was attacked during the night? Because she consulted the flames and saw… snow? They didn’t exactly spell that out.
      I will concede, you are probably right- at least as far as the route the show has chosen. I suppose it is the father in me that would like to see a little more direct payoff- something good to come of her death. Clearing the snow so that Mel could abandon the one she has essentially (unknowingly?) manipulated all this time, doesn’t seem like a great “bang for your buck”. Yeah, yeah- it’s so she could get back to Jon. Seems cheap to me. Will the showrunners clarify this, or just assume we all “get it”? Will Jon’s resurrection require another sacrifice? Or does she just pray and give the kiss?

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    170. Sister Kisser,

      Sister Kisser:

      In what way did Shireen’s sacrifice prove to Mel that he wasn’t the one she was looking for?

      Because the sacrifice didn’t work. It didn’t save Stannis that was clear when the Sellswords left him.

      I know it’s preaty difficult to accept that the sacrifice acomplished nothing, but honestly that’s what I belive will be the case in both mediums.

      Well like I said earlier. That ”nothing” is in itself something. Something quite big like saving Jon, indirectly but it helps nonetheless.
      I think I explained my opinion preaty clear earlier so I won’t go into it anymore.

      And yes I expect Jon’s revival to be fairly easy, Mel giving him the kiss of life is my guess, it’s how will he be after that, that is the real question too me.

      EDIT: Won’t speculate much, but i think there’s preaty good chance they won’t go too much into the sacrifice.
      Most people with a bit of thinking can come too the conclusion that the sacifice didn’t save Stannis but helped Jon, by bringing Mel back too him.
      If you like this or not is a diferent metter.

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    171. YgritTe,

      Bran warging into Jon’s dead body is not going to happen because it makes no sense within the story. Of course, that idea has somehow turned this post into a Jon vs Bran importance debate.

      Regarding the spoiler we have got,

      the battle of the bastards

      , there has to be proper build up towards that event, which means the resurrection has to happen fairly early. I doubt it will happen immediately, but it should by the of Ep 2/3. Plus Kit Harington has been spotted in Belfast on and off throughout the entire filming period. So he is having a proper arc next season.

      Joshua Atreides,

      Sister Kisser,

      The show runners have hinted in the post episode discussion of ep9 last season, that Stannis burning Shireen is an input they got from GRRM himself. So Shireen’s sacrifice may not happen the way everybody seems to be guessing, in the books.

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    172. Ginevra:

      Dany is among my least favorite protagonists.The great thing about Thrones, though, is that if you dislike one or two characters, there are still hundreds more to love. I read for Tyrion, Arya, Jon, Brienne, Alleras, Sam, Bran, Hodor, and the list goes on and on and on.I still read Dany’s part because I recognize that she’s one of the most important players and I don’t want to miss any of the story, but I find that I forget her parts much more easily than the rest.

      This!

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    173. Selina,

      You do understand that while Bran may be just as important as Jon by the time the story is over, it is not yet what most have become invested in. The only thing we (show watchers) have to lean on is what we experienced thus far which has been many of Jon’s triumphs and tribulations, interesting interactions between him and Stannis, WW, Sam, Thorne etc. compared with what of Bran the last couple of seasons? An isolated kid on a journey, with not much happening, to find a man in a tree. Nothing last season. I’m sure he will get very interesting this year but of course a lot of the hype right now is understandably going to lean towards what happens next to our current fallen “hero.” There was no cliffhanger for Bran. There is for Jon, Sansa, Theon etc.

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    174. YgritTe,

      I don’t like the idea of Bran warging into Jon. I think that’s a time, a place and a role for all the main characters in these books and that their arcs will have subtle connections. They don’t need to interfere in what is meant for another character.
      And they’d better let Ghost alive!

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    175. YgritTe,
      I’m not actually sure that many people are invested in Jon. Reading through this thread, it… does not seem so. I mean, we all know that he has to, and will, get resurrected?

      My own preference is for Brienne (will she finally get her man?), Sansa (will she finally kill Littlefinger, and will it be as glorious and bloody as I want it to be?), Arya (ditto, but for the Freys; and will a wolfpack be involved?), Cersei (will she finally kill off those pesky Tyrells?), and, now that she’s actually starting to move again, Dany. And one thing I love is that there are so many violent, aggressive women for me to root for. ?

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    176. Yaga,

      I do hope Brienne finally gets her man! Even if happiness has no ever after in GOT, let them enjoy it even for a while. At least the Brienne and Jaime figures stand together on my desk.

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    177. Yaga,

      I don’t agree. I think majority of the people here are invested in Jon. If you look at past threads, all posts regarding Jon have had the maximum comments. Including this one. It’s just 4 to 5 ppl who seem to be negative on Jon, and that’s natural. All characters have their haters. Of course, there seems to be some fatigue with same topic being discussed over and over again, I.e., his resurrection. Similar to how some people get tired of repeated discussion about Sansa and her agency.

      Me personally,the characters I amost invested in are Jon, the Stark sisters and Jaime. Even Cersei.

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    178. Heres an interesting prediction.

      What if Jon Snow does a John Sheridan (B5) in that he nearly dies, but someone gives him a portion of his life back, to enable him to do what must be done? (call it magic, indeed the magic might be of walkers origin….)

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    179. Selina,

      He’s not irreplaceable? Well then I guess nobody is really. So then who do you see replacing him Dolorous Ed? Do you ever get attached to a character? Or are they interchangeable. We’ve spent the last 5 years getting to know some of these players. Heck people still speak fondly of Eddard and Oberyn.

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    180. Shy Lady Dragon,

      Saw a still of Nymeria while browsing I forget where the other day and how sweet she looked when Arya had to chase her away. I’d basically forgotten about her and am looking forward to seeing the direwolf return.

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    181. Yaga,

      I love Brienne and am discouraged by the spoiler that when they meet again her and Jamie fight and she storms out. It seems to play into the book narrative (though will most likely take different route of course) which I’m pretty sure I heard was LSH turning her against Jamie. I wanted them to live, and be together in the end, doesn’t have to be romantically but at least good friends.

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    182. ghost of winterfell,

      Is it bad that I have a little soft spot for the evil Cercei? 🙂 Of course I would not want to have anything to do with her were I living in that fictional world but there’s something melancholy and sad about the character under the surface. Though I can’t stand how she treats people, especially Tyrion. Yeah I hate her! Yet like her in a way. Weird!

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    183. YgritTe,

      Imo this happens because of Lena’s acting. She’s not only beautiful, she has a sort of dark humour and, when it’s about her children, you really feel her love for them. In the books Cersei is not that interesting.

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    184. Shy Lady Dragon,

      Agree. Cersei in the books is way to over the top. It’s really hard too feel anything for her.
      While Lena does a briliant job in the show. The walk of shame for example, in the books I was thinking ”She deserves this”, while in the show I was telling my friends ”no one deserves this, no metter what”

      This too me is why I always enjoy a movie/TV show much more then the books, it just adds something more. The look Cersei had in the show, during her attonment is something that 100 words can’t describe.
      How she starts confident and then slowly breaks into crying left me speechless.

      Lena is just an amezing actress.

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    185. ghost of winterfell,
      Well, OK. Thinking about it, it may be just fatigue from waiting and discussing things ad infinitum. Once we’re done with the whole resurrection and RLJ nonsense, and the Bolton detour, I’m pretty sure I’ll get invested in Jon myself (similar to Dany once she’s done with Meereen/the Dothraki).

      That said… I do think that the choice of Jon as one of the protagonists in GOT is actually a pretty weak one. Maybe the weakest in the whole series. But I’m pretty sure that it’s an artefact of the fact that it’s really a 1990s story that is still continuing in the 2010s – back then, killing Ned and Robb must have seemed untraditional enough!

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    186. YgritTe,

      Bran is the character that I’m most interested now and ever. I don’t care if his storyline is boring (I don’t think so) or doesn’t involve fights or interactions with other characters. I like his story just the way it is.

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    187. YgritTe,

      Cersei is one of the characters who would be on my list of “characters I prefer on the show to the books”. Lena Headey has really grown on me. I started liking Cersei more after Tyrion leaves KL and she started coming into her own. Till then she was just an antagonist for Tyrion. Even in the books, I started sympathising with her more after she got her own POV.

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    188. Mihnea,

      She is! But the whole scene was brilliantly filmed and directed. During the walk of shame I felt that Cersei was actually less evil than the mob and than septa Unella. While I was reading about the walk of shame I felt Cersei deserved it.

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    189. Mark: The twist, that I can see happening is…Mel does her thing, revives Jon…but he doesn’t appear to be alive. Like a body without a soul. Which is because he is inside Ghost, cue Bran telling Jon to go home or some such thing a few episodes later and we have Jon back in his body.

      This matches the Jon Snow poster. He looks alive but with no soul imo.

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    190. Yaga,

      Yeah, I think a lot of people are just tired of discussing all those theories regarding Jon, when we havent got any resolution yet. Again I don’t think that Jon is a poor choice for a protagonist. Considering the popularity of the character even today, that choice seems to be working perfectly fine, even though these characters were conceived in the 90s. Yeah, he is the character that fits the ” traditional hero” bill more than the others. But I think he complements well with the other non traditional POV characters. Also, I think GRRM did enough with his character to make him interesting in his own right. And I hope he continues to do that. I don’t want him to turn into the traditional Messiah who saves the world kind of character. But that’s only my preference.

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    191. Laura,

      I don’t think its about liking or not liking a character. The discussion prior to your comment is about how some claim that Jon is not important to the story and is replaceable. No, I am sorry, after 5 seasons, he is not dispensable. That would be bad story telling, and i’m not a writer. Additionally, the comment had come from someone who didn’t even watch all of season 5.

        Quote  Reply

    192. SlayerNina,

      The discussion was not “like vs dislike”, it was more than that as I said in my previous message

      Everyone will have different opinions on who they favour and not. That’s for sure!

        Quote  Reply

    193. OT: I am doing a rewatch of all the seasons, and currently on season 5. I am liking it even more than I did the first time!

        Quote  Reply

    194. Shy Lady Dragon:
      Mihnea,
      She is! But the whole scene was brilliantly filmed and directed. During the walk of shame I felt that Cersei was actually less evil than the mob and than septa Unella. While I was reading about the walk of shame I felt Cersei deserved it.

      I think that was what GRRM was going for in the text, too, but the visual impact made it a stronger sell, since we could actually see her emotions.

      However, in the books it was much more about the misogyny of the situation, which made it far more galling to me personally. She was being punished for having consensual sex, rather than for any of her actual crimes, like giving Felyse, the Blue Bard, and others to Qyburn to torture, or murdering Robert’s bastards. She wasn’t even being punished for the crime of passing off Jaime’s kids as Roberts’. No, it was for having sex with Lancel and Kettleblack. Fuck the Faith. I’m hoping Cersei will come back in a big way to destroy them before she finally goes down in flames herself.

      I don’t think anyone is or should be under the impression that Cersei is a good person. But no one deserves Torture and Humiliation just for being female and having sex. Much like Theon didn’t deserve to be flayed and psychologically tortured, despite the fact that he murdered two innocent boys to prove a point.

        Quote  Reply

    195. Mihnea:
      Queenofthrones,
      it’s the same in the show There are many crimes she is punishedfor, among them sleeping with Lancel.

      Well if she is being punished for other crimes, that would be different than the book. There she is specifically made to do the WoS only for sleeping with Kettleblack & Lancel and for no other “crime”. Which is revoltingly sexist.

      It is certainly different feel, IMO, because in the show she never murdered/tortured any of the people she did in the book. So I don’t feel as outraged that she’s being punished for the wrong crime.

        Quote  Reply

    196. Mihnea,

      Ah, but the sacrifice DID break the weather which was what Stannis was looking for. Unfortunately for him it also caused his men to desert which was not foreseen. So you could say the sacrifice worked-

        Quote  Reply

    197. Cersei’s Brain,

      That’s exactly what I was trying too say! It did work, it helped Mel get back to Jon.
      Also it showed Mel that Stannis isn’t the chosen one.

      That’s what I think will happen in the books too. Just that there it might look even more meaningless if Mel does it at CB as she is already with Jon.

      Anyway in my opinion this sacrifice has the role/purpose of pushing Mel closer towards Jonand making her finally realize that Stannis isn’t the chosen one. Something that I tought the show did very well.

        Quote  Reply

    198. Pigeon:
      And I’m serious guys and gals – if anyone knows where I can find the Markus Lupfer choker Maisie is wearing, I will owe you big time.

      I just had a nosey on their website and if you select different countries (at the bottom right) you get different options for what’s available. Doesn’t look like the UK version has it but I changed to Canada out of curiosity and the stuff on the accessories page was completely different. If it’s on there maybe you could do a deal with a poster from that country? 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    199. Cersei’s Brain,

      Mel sees the future in some way and *thinks* she can steer events toward the desired outcome via sacrifices or blood magic: not only Shireen, but also Gendry’s leeches. I am of the opinion that those events would happen regardless of her intervention and that the sacrifices themselves are meaningless.

        Quote  Reply

    200. Sergei Walankov,

      I think Thoros served his purpose in the story by telling Mel how his resurrecting Beric happened. He was at his lowest point because his best friend had died. So is Mel right now. The look on her face when she entered Castle Black said everything. She fucked up big time, so maybe some humility would do some good. After all she is a SERVANT of R’hollor.

        Quote  Reply

    201. Ginevra: Interviewer:“Is Ringo the best drummer in the world?”

      John Lennon:“Ringo isn’t even the best drummer in The Beatles.”

      Every group dynamic has a goofball. The others in the band bagged on Starr because that was the role he played in the band’s persona. Because of this, many people forget that Starr was a really fine musician and artist.

        Quote  Reply

    202. OT: but I just saw the preview for the next episode of Downton Abbey and it appears Rose Leslie is making a return to the show. Didn’t see that coming, but I’m glad because I really don’t remember her well from the beginning of the series and it will be nice to see in a different role, especially in a program I already enjoy.

        Quote  Reply

    203. Queenofthrones,

      Of course, torture and public humiliation mustn’t be the way to get atonement, but that is the GOT-verse!
      I wanted Cersei to suffer because of her murdering Robert, those innocents who happened to be bastards and all the hardships she brought upon the Starks. It was Jeoffrey who took the greatest pleasure in Sansa’s torment, but it was also Cersei who enjoyed seeing her being hurt.

        Quote  Reply

    204. Mr Fixit,

      Hmmm…I always thought Mel did have foresight – she just is terrible at interpretation and never takes unintended consequences into account. I do agree that she tries to steer things in the direction that she wants them to go (that doesn’t work very well)

        Quote  Reply

    205. lord of blogfell,

      Not that I think the guy is a jackass for not liking Jon Snow but for you to say their opinion is wrong is asinine. It is their opinion to dislike Snow, that is neither right or wrong.

        Quote  Reply

    206. Wow, been reading all the comments and I must say it never ceases to amaze me…human nature that is…We all have different opinions but I’m pretty sure we all agree on one thing….Hurry up Season 6. If this season beats last season (thinking of Hardhome and Mother’s Mercy) I’ll be over the moon. The show is so very different in a lot of ways from the books, but I look at it like two stand alone vessels and don’t compare them. I have enjoyed both and hopefully will live long enough to read the rest of the books…haha.
      Thank you all for being here. It’s a very long dry period until April.

        Quote  Reply

    207. Stargaryen:
      lord of blogfell,

      Not that I think the guy is a jackass for not liking Jon Snow but for you to say their opinion is wrong is asinine.It is their opinion to dislike Snow, that is neither right or wrong.

      I would agree with you, but that person also said they do not watch episodes if Bran is not included. So I cannot fault the Lord for saying it.
      Why bother watching if one is not interested in the whole story, but only one character? I mean, what is the point? And why trying to discuss the show if you do not watch all of it?
      It is GoT, not ‘Bran crawled into a tree and might save the world.’

        Quote  Reply

    208. Apologies if this is old news but I don’t remember seeing it on here. For anyone planning to get the dvd of S5 in the UK, it’s available from HMV (from 14 March) but you apparently get a photobook with it. It says “exclusive” but I’m presuming that just means only they give you a free copy, rather than it’s not available anywhere else at all? If they compare favourably price-wise it could be worth getting it from them for the freebie 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    209. Deesensfan,

      I usually distrust trailers because sometimes they show too much or deliberately create a false image about the film. However, with GOT is different. And yes, now I want a trailer even more than a work promotion 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    210. Elizabeth,

      its crazy, the effect GOT has on the general/casual fan/media is much more than a normal show

      and the effect on us crazies… well that’s another level
      I come here everyyyyyyyyyyyy day more than once. LOL

        Quote  Reply

    211. bran vs jon?really?i mean of all the chracters bran POV are one of the most boring in the books his journey is boring,the interaction are boring,he is very isolated far in the north when no man is supposed to be far away from every characters,hios personality is not very is not interesting either.BUT the importance of his storyline give me some interest jon?come on jon is one of he most loved and popular character after tyrion when he was supposed to be the JOHN CENA of game of thrones that kind of “fantasy hero cliché” but that place was given to dany (popular yes but with a lot of haters) i like jon because we can see the evolution of a whiny arrogant boy into a mature and true leader who see the big picture when all the others fight each other for they own agenda of course he have the personality and aura of a hero but HE.IS.NOT.ARAGORN the season in the show and books have prove us that he is nor the fantasy hero cliché he is not invicible,he get his ass kicked a lot,he was beaten,attack by eagle,stabbed and die he is a good leader but he can’t rally people who hated for century with just a speech he is human and that make him likeable to people the characters jon met or around him tormund,val,alys,mance rayder,stannis,dolorous edd make jon far more interesting than bran i mean D&D cut bran’s story in season 5 because there was just nothing going on there…if people could choose between the two a HUGE majority would choose jon i don’t bran but you can’t compare his storyline with jon’s

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    212. Lulus Mum: I just had a nosey on their website and if you select different countries (at the bottom right) you get different options for what’s available. Doesn’t look like the UK version has it but I changed to Canada out of curiosity and the stuff on the accessories page was completely different. If it’s on there maybe you could do a deal with a poster from that country?

      Aww, thank you for checking it out for me! I don’t see that the Canada website has it either (I live in Canada), maybe I’ll just go through all the countries listed. LOL. Probably costs 5 million dollars or something anyway…. 😉

        Quote  Reply

    213. Deesensfan,

      I didn’t use to come every day but I lurked at least multiple times a week, now I come every day. I love this site for having scruples…lol. Plus, I really like the people. Thanks for replying and I’ll keep watching the clock count down. Ugh

        Quote  Reply

    214. stargaryen
      sorry i respect the opinion of others but only if those ones watch or read fully the show or books i will respect it if the dude barely watch or read it anjd say “hey why do you love he is boring”

        Quote  Reply

    215. Pigeon: Aww, thank you for checking it out for me! I don’t see that the Canada website has it either (I live in Canada), maybe I’ll just go through all the countries listed. LOL. Probably costs 5 million dollars or something anyway….

      You’re welcome 😀 Their decorated beanie hats were nice so I looked at the price – £90 (about 185 Canadian dollars). Mmmm bit out of my price range I think, about 3 times what I would be prepared to pay! :O

        Quote  Reply

    216. Deesensfan:
      OT: I am doing a rewatch of all the seasons, and currently on season 5. I am liking it even more than I did the first time!

      I need to do a rewatch. I haven’t seen Seasons 1-3 in about 3 years. I started watching GoT after Season 3 ended and I binged it waiting for Season 4.

      I was really anticipating the Season 5 trailer. Even went to the IMAX Experience to see it. WotW was amazing on the big screen. I’ve never anticipated a trailer more than Season 6 though. Hope it is no later than February 14th.

      We were 70 days from Season 5 premiere when the trailer released and the Vinyl premiere is 69 days from the GoT premiere, so a trailer around then is likely.

        Quote  Reply

    217. Cumsprite,

      And that is why John Lennon was a twat. Granted, he wrote the best songs in the Beatles and post Beatles (with the exception of Harrisons All Things Must Pass album), but he was a total dickbag when relating to others he felt were inferior musicians. Heavy duty fucking super ego. Ringo is an amazing drummer, someone that does not need to be showy to groove. And, contrary to Sean Penn, Paul sucks all the penises.

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    218. I like that Maisie’s fun and age appropriate style. I really dislike it when young actresses, especially those in their teens, look overly sexualized, or worse, vampy.

      On the Jon v. Bran v. Dany v. Every one else argument, it’s just fine for people to enjoy and identify with different characters and wholly dislike the protagonists/’main’ characters.

      Hated Ted Mosby, loved Barney Stinson, hated Dawson Leery, loved Jack McPhee, hated Kara Thrace, loved Caprica Six, hated Sookie Stackhouse, loved Pam, hated Riker, loved Worf, I would have been fine with the death of any Firefly character except Jayne.

      The idea that you have to like or identify with a shows main protagonist(s) flies in the face of the complicity of human attraction.

      I can go to the Italian place if I hate salad, just because I like the salad and dessert.

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    219. Sergei Walankov: Because of something he never said? Harsh.

      Um, he did say that about Ringo. And he said similar things about other musicians. He was quite full of himself. Kinda like me. I. Am. The. Queen. Twat.

        Quote  Reply

    220. Rygar,

      Interviewer: “Is Ringo the best drummer in the world?”

      John Lennon: “Ringo isn’t even the best drummer in The Beatles.”

      Ringo: “At least I’m not dead.”

        Quote  Reply

    221. HotPinkLipstick,

      OMG, Barney Stinson, Worf and Jayne, love them! I could have watched the respective shows only for these characters! (But I didn’t mind Ted Mosby and Riker and kept my fingers crossed for the entire “Firefly” crew.)

        Quote  Reply

    222. Elizabeth,

      The countdown clock is mesmerizing, isn’t it?
      I’m bouncing off the walls for a trailer. I dare say a lot of us are.
      I’m hoping, until we get it, we’ll at least get a picture here and there, like the one of Jaime.
      It’s sort of like being served an amuse bouche when you’re starving, but it’s better than nothing.

        Quote  Reply

    223. Jack Bauer 24,

      oh, after every season, I do a rewatch. I started watching GOT after season 2 ended so I binged those two in a span of three days… then I watched them all after they aired.

      I actually cant believe that when I rewatch older seasons, I am mesmerized focused and watching like its brand new stuff!!!!!!! And when an episode ends, I cant wait to watch the next. its crazy!!

      Season 5 is soooo good 🙂 haha!

      I don’t know if we get that Imax stuff in Canada. if we do, I am going loL!
      edit: I know that some Cineplex were airing the Season 5 finale live… so maybe we do get the imax experience.

        Quote  Reply

    224. This sucks, I feel like we are being fed scraps for amusement. Just enough to keep talking about the show, also I started watching game of thrones after season 3 ended. I’ve re watched the entire show around 4 or 5 times. Everytime I watch the series I find something new, pick up on names I didn’t really know and for shadowing I didn’t pick up on before.

        Quote  Reply

    225. Queenofthrones,

      Just one thing to add to the whole Cersei thing. It may have been sexist but let’s not forget that it was ultimately Cersei’s own fault. She’s the one who manipulated people and events to get Margaery convicted on charges of adultery. She’s the one who gave the High Sparrow all the power. She deserved the Walk of Shame if only for her stupidity. Let’s also not forget that in the show the High Septon was also paraded naked and flogged by the sparrows due to his extra curricular activities so at least in the show they are equal opportunity shamers.

        Quote  Reply

    226. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      I don’t want to stare at the clock, but I’m compelled. What I really like doing, though, is being away for 8-10 hours and coming back to look at the clock and noting the dramatic change from the last time I checked in.

      Tell me I’m not alone?

        Quote  Reply

    227. HotPinkLipstick,

      Hahaha…no, you aren’t alone.
      In fact, when I realized how utterly thrilled I was when I noticed the days had gone from triple digits to double, I had to laugh at myself.

        Quote  Reply

    228. Loved reading this thread! It’s kinda simple to me. Jon Snow dying ain’t a great twist, so obviously he must be alive. Everyone already knows, he isn’t dead. He’s too much of a key figure to not continue and the photos of him on set gave it all away ages ago.
      Maisie likes to tease. She’s on a loser this time though 🙂
      Not so long ago she said he was simply dead!
      Alive in one form or another basically.

      I’m with some of you….I’m a tad fatigued with the speculation. At this rate it will end up being an anti climax, and I’d hate that.

        Quote  Reply

    229. Sergei Walankov,

      You’re right. I was told the Lennon quote by a good friend who is a Beatles fanatic, and so I assumed it to be true. When I searched to find the phrasing, seeing it referenced a good bit lent even more credence, but after searching harder, this article shoots down the veracity of the story pretty well. http://articles.latimes.com/2013/dec/02/entertainment/la-et-ms-beatles-ringo-starr-biography-tune-in-mark-lewisohn-20131202

        Quote  Reply

    230. It’s so good when I get busy with things different from the clock and, coming back to WOTW, I notice that an entire day has passed!

        Quote  Reply

    231. Cersei’s Brain,

      Fuck! I can’t believe this. Another incredible musician gone from the world. What the hell is going on?

      Always been a big Eagles fan too, so this one really stings. 🙁

      Anyway I really hope Jon isn’t just gonna be Bran’s new skin as some believe. We need Jon back, not his body being puppeteered by his brother/cousin. And I don’t see the point of Mel being around if she’s not gonna play a part in his legit resurrection somehow.

        Quote  Reply

    232. I’m not a rage-against-the-machine sort of guy, but if it’s going to be Bran Stark inside the mostly dead both of Jon Snow for the next three years…. then count me out. That’ll probably kill my interest completely.

      After all, it’s the CHARACTERS that matter on this show (along with the story), and if Jon is dead, it won’t matter if Kit is still playing the role or not. The character of Jon Snow is the character I love, the lost young man who became a leader and recognized the truth about the impending winter. Not the animated corpse occupied by Bran. Ugh. I can’t believe people are even talking about this.

        Quote  Reply

    233. doug: And that right there is why I personally think he’s tired of Game of Thrones and the fame it brought him. I wouldn’t expect to see Kit much anymore.

      He was on vacation. I’m not sure why that makes you think he’s tired of the show. Kit’s most likely not doing events because HBO has made “Jon Snow is dead!” their hill to die on, so they’re keeping him away from events, not the other way around.

        Quote  Reply

    234. Sergei Walankov:
      Let’s put a poll up: which Beatle do YOU think should play drums on the Song of Ice and Fire?

      Ricky Fataar. Drummer who played with the Beach Boys and played “George Harrison” in the Rutles.

        Quote  Reply

    235. ghost of winterfell:
      Yaga,

      I don’t agree. I think majority of the people here are invested in Jon. If you look at past threads, all posts regarding Jon have had the maximum comments. Including this one. It’s just 4 to 5 ppl who seem to be negative on Jon, and that’s natural.

      Yes, I would say the majority of us love Jon. In that recent theories poll, 59.3% of the visitors to this site voted Jon as Azor Ahai reborn, which was significantly more than the percentages for Snow on any other site. I imagine a similar number would vote him to be TPTWP.

        Quote  Reply

    236. plop_plop,

      Those shits! Here I am trying to be somewhat productive (only somewhat, but still), and now my mind is going…”ok, a cryptic post was just made on twitter, does that mean we’re about to get something…anything…even just another picture?”

      Nevertheless, thanks for posting that. 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    237. Mazie, has to backtrack a little. She went on and on back in June, about how Jon was Dead. A play on words from her, HBO, D&D and all the other cast members who talked about it. SPOILER ALERT: with all the Pics & articles about Jon’s upcoming season 6 stuff. She still has to say that yeah, he’s back but dead. In those pics he does not look dead at all. He is back in his Stark clothes & will pretty much march on WF with a Big ass army to back him. I understand her problem. She & all others are under contract, & they don’t want the same problem that they had last year with the leaked episodes( though, a lot of the plots for next season have been posted. Unless they are fake). Mazie still has to say yeah, he’s up and walking but, Dead.

      I kind of feel sorry for a lot of the cast members, because every time they are interviewed, all they keep getting asked about is Jon Snow. Yeah, people still care about the other storylines. But, like in the books, the battle of the kings is a mute point, if their utmost Northern Neighbors come across the wall. That is the most important story. Not to mention that even GRRM has held out the tons of their backstory( which, I think will be in book 6). And I don’t think that Dani’s Dragons will be the end all for the walkers. That would be just like the Eagles coming to save the day in The Hobbit or Lord of the Rings( which GRRM did not care for) it is an easy out.

      Glad that Mazie received the Award, it is well earned.

        Quote  Reply

    238. Is it me or are the Beatles dying in order of how talented they were? Which means Ringo will without doubt be the last to go! To be honest, all of the Fab Four seemed to be pricks except George!

      Anyway, why are we talking about Ringo when we could be talking about ‘The Loon!’

        Quote  Reply

    239. Deesensfan,

      Hi Dee!

      We got the IMAX experience in Toronto and Montreal at the end of January last year, I’m not sure about Ottawa. It was awesome! It’s great fun to see your favorite show on the big screen with an audience full of like-minded fans . It would be great to have it again this year but I haven’t heard anything yet.

      If it does come around, just keep checking your Cineplex IMAX locations’ websites for details.

        Quote  Reply

    240. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Haha! The teasing is strong this season. I mean, what’s next? Smirking Mel giving a dead Jon the bunny ears?

      But the post is a week old, so I guess nothing is about to come, sadly. Or maybe not sadly. Because even if we did get something today, I’d just crave another trailer a few days later. Basically a Thrones junkie at this stage 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    241. I finally got excited and believed that Jon would be back alive after being brought back to life!
      Thanks Maisie for crushing my hopes. Now I have mixed feelings about the new season. I sure don’t want to see a “zombified” Jon.

        Quote  Reply

    242. Nymeria Warrior Queen:
      plop_plop,

      Those shits!Here I am trying to be somewhat productive (only somewhat, but still), and now my mind is going…”ok, a cryptic post was just made on twitter, does that mean we’re about to get something…anything…even just another picture?”

      Nevertheless, thanks for posting that.

      That tweet is a week old.

        Quote  Reply

    243. I sincerly think there”s a lot of freaking out for nothing in the end.

      I’m sure, among the whole audience, we’re in the minority for whom Mel resurecting Jon is a given and who it wouldnt be a great twist for.

      Most viewers, I think, truly believe he’s dead. Or if they have suspicions, the visuals alone might justify the “great twist”. Maisie’s talking about.

      And even if there was more than Mel doing her voodoo, there are so many other potential twist than Jon being a simple zombie or warged by Bran (and, but that’s just my opinion, that could be neat). Just consider the alternatives (and only those we / I can potentially see at this point) before imagining the worst:
      – Warged into Ghost for the short time he was dead (and brings back some knowledge that way ?).
      – R’hllor gives a clear vision to Mel (before killing her ?)
      – The ritual requires a sacrifice.
      – He’s now a White Walker on the good side (yeah, bit of a throaway here, but why not ? ^^)
      – Not Mel at all, corpse left in the wood resurrected by the Night King as his lieutenant.
      – Shireen comes back to life ! (yeah, cause why not… !)

      … Anyway, all that’s exciting, but in the end, it will probably be just Mel and poof !

        Quote  Reply

    244. plop_plop,

      Actually, I’m quite glad both Wylie and Jack pointed out the tweet was a week old. It doesn’t make it less entertaining (and I don’t think they were implying that), but it does save me from bouncing off the walls even more thinking something more may be immediately forthcoming.

        Quote  Reply

    245. Nymeria Warrior Queen:
      it does save me from bouncing off the walls even more thinking something more may be immediately forthcoming.

      That’s exactly why I pointed the date out 🙂

      Meant no offense plop_plop. I’m super glad, you posted the tweet! Thanks a lot! Everything to keep us entertained.

        Quote  Reply

    246. Deesensfan,

      I know!! The other day I stumbled into Hardhome exactly at the moment when Jon started talking to the wildlings… And I could not help but watching it again. I had re-watched some scenes here and there but had not seen the whole segment since it first aired, and even knowing exactly what was going to happen, I was entranced all over again…

        Quote  Reply

    247. Exit81,

      Yeah, I looked at Kit’s pictures from Brazil (hmmm, by the way those made me think that a good twist would be to send him to parlay with the Dothraki or negotiate with Doran Martell… or any other who wear less garments than the NW). He did not look like he was hating it. Actually he took pictures with fans, and went drinking, dancing, sightseeing, sunbathing, rode a bus… He even let someone touch his abs!

      And yeah, probably he’s not attending any other red carpet events simply because the show wants to underscore the “Jon’s dead, period” motto.

        Quote  Reply

    248. plop_plop,

      I saw this like a week ago. At the moment I thought it was about Stannis and Shireen…”. Because the spokes on the wheel Dany was referring to were the houses: Lannisters, Starks, Baratheons, etc., no to individuals? Don’t know.

        Quote  Reply

    249. GhostCR,

      I think I read somewhere that people were speculating “blood” meant kings blood, “snow” of course meant Jon… So “blood in the snow”… lol I’m siked for season 6…

        Quote  Reply

    250. Sansa’s Knight:
      what do u think the trailer views will be like in the first 1 hour

      first hour ? maybe a million, or is that pushing it ? I expect 20 million or more by the time the first episode of season 6 comes out.

        Quote  Reply

    251. Luka Nieto: I’m gonna guess somewhere between 7 and 8 million.

      Last year’s premiere rating was 8mill+. I don’t think HBO will be happy with anything less than that.

        Quote  Reply

    252. ghost of winterfell,

      I suppose Luka could be right. Season 5 did piss a few people off. And the not-so-fanatical can get bored with shows after so many years. But I still think we’re more likely than not to see a slight uptick for the opener. I mean, Jon Snow’s fate must be up there with “Who Shot JR?” Let’s just pray we get a better answer.

      http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/millions-tune-in-to-find-out-who-shot-j-r

      350 million worldwide, wow! Okay, perhaps Snow’s fate won’t be that popular since HBO is not free.

        Quote  Reply

    253. ghost of winterfell: Last year’s premiere rating was 8mill+. I don’t think HBO will be happy with anything less than that.

      Oh. I remembered wrong. I meant somewhere between last year’s maximum and one million more. So I guess I mean somewhere between 8 and 9 million.

        Quote  Reply

    254. Ginevra,

      Yeah, I don’t think any show today could have that kind of following. There is just too much variety/ options available today. Plus, there are other factors like GOT being shown on a premium cable channel, piracy etc., which affect ratings. I agree with Luka, it will probably be between 8 and 9 million.

        Quote  Reply

    255. Maggie,

      That may have more to do with fairly ordinary movies being made these days. I rarely go to the cinema because everything is either sequels, superheros or the usual “action” stuff. Bores me to tears.

      And look at the “quality” of the really BIG movies eg. Twilight Saga. I mean, really????

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    256. Jack Bauer 24: This is the longest we’ve gone without a trailer announcement since Season 3. This trailer is going to be something special.

      What’s the Longest we’ve ever waited for a Trailer announcement ? if they usually it, then we should be getting an announcement pretty soon. Favorite trailers where from seasons 2,3 and 4.

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    257. Ginevra,

      I remember wondering who shot J.R., I was a child then. Not only the TV was free, but (at least in my country) there was the only series to watch 🙁

        Quote  Reply

    258. Geralt of Rivia:
      A Name of Thrones,

      For sure Mel is the one to help him in the show, but books could be a different in this. If Jon is to remain same person. Then what would be the point of killing him? To free him from his vows? Sounds cheap and like Gandalf’s return which Grrm is not fond of. It will change him in some way.

      FanofTyrion,

      I wonder, how exactly he will be important figure in the endgame. His talent for politics, use of strategy or something else? What do you think?

      I’m not too sure HOW he will figure in the endgame, I just think he will. I can’t describe it exactly but there is something about Tyrion’s story that makes me feel he is going to be a big part of coming events. He is certainly politically astute and knows how to read people well. All great leaders need good advisors 🙂

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    259. Mihnea:
      Shy Lady Dragon,

      Agree. Cersei in the books is way to over the top. It’s really hard too feel anything for her.
      While Lena does a briliant job in the show. The walk of shame for example, in the books I was thinking ”She deserves this”, while in the show I was telling my friends ”no one deserves this, no metter what”

      This too me is why I always enjoy a movie/TV show much more then the books, it just adds something more. The look Cersei had in the show, during her attonment is something that 100 words can’t describe.
      How she starts confident and then slowly breaks into crying left me speechless.

      Lena is just an amezing actress.

      I didn’t feel sorry for her at all. She is an evil cow. At the end of her ‘shaming’ she was not repentant, just vengeful. The way she treated Tyrion was abominable, and the flashback of her as a child seemed to show her as a nasty piece of work even then. I seem to recall some dialogue where she pinched the baby Tyrion also. All around horrible woman, and IMO, loving her children is not enough to redeem her. Probably because of her indulgence that Joffrey was such a little shite too.

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    260. Queenofthrones,

      Queenofthrones: I think that was what GRRM was going for in the text, too, but the visual impact made it a stronger sell, since we could actually see her emotions.

      However, in the books it was much more about the misogyny of the situation, which made it far more galling to me personally.She was being punished for having consensual sex, rather than for any of her actual crimes, like giving Felyse, the Blue Bard, and others to Qyburn to torture, or murdering Robert’s bastards.She wasn’t even being punished for the crime of passing off Jaime’s kids as Roberts’.No, it was for having sex with Lancel and Kettleblack.Fuck the Faith.I’m hoping Cersei will come back in a big way to destroy them before she finally goes down in flames herself.

      I don’t think anyone is or should be under the impression that Cersei is a good person.But no one deserves Torture and Humiliation just for being female and having sex.Much like Theon didn’t deserve to be flayed and psychologically tortured, despite the fact that he murdered two innocent boys to prove a point.

      Queenofthrones: She wasn’t even being punished for the crime of passing off Jaime’s kids as Roberts’. No, it was for having sex with Lancel and Kettleblack. Fuck the Faith. I’m hoping Cersei will come back in a big way to destroy them before she finally goes down in flames herself.

      But then who was it that gave the Sparrows the power in the FIRST place? Cersei. She meant to use them as a weapon against the Tyrells and ended up getting caught in her own web. Karma/Poetic justice IMO.

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    261. Shy Lady Dragon:
      Queenofthrones,

      Of course, torture and public humiliation mustn’t be the way to get atonement, but that is the GOT-verse!
      I wanted Cersei to suffer because of her murdering Robert, those innocents who happened to be bastards and all the hardships she brought upon the Starks. It was Jeoffrey who took the greatest pleasure in Sansa’s torment, but it was also Cersei who enjoyed seeing her being hurt.

      Totally with you here.

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    262. Matthew The Dragon Knight:
      This sucks, I feel like we are being fed scraps for amusement. Just enough to keep talking about the show, also I started watching game of thrones after season 3 ended. I’ve re watched the entire show around 4 or 5 times. Everytime I watch the series I find something new, pick up on names I didn’t really know and for shadowing I didn’t pick up on before.

      GOT is way better than most movies coming out. Would be great on the big screen in 3D.

        Quote  Reply

    263. Danny:
      Queenofthrones,

      Just one thing to add to the whole Cersei thing.It may have been sexist but let’s not forget that it was ultimately Cersei’s own fault.She’s the one who manipulated people and events to get Margaery convicted on charges of adultery.She’s the one who gave the High Sparrow all the power.She deserved the Walk of Shame if only for her stupidity. Let’s also not forget that in the show the High Septon was also paraded naked and flogged by the sparrows due to his extra curricular activities so at least in the show they are equal opportunity shamers.

      Exactly!

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    264. FanofTyrion,

      She’s a total narcissist. People like her are toxic, but also delusional. They really believe they’re “special” and deserve to get what they want at other’s expense. That said, since they did show her to have this personality trait from a young age it shows she’s a bad seed. In real life someone like this might learn, by the time they reach mature years, to at least put on a front to cover up what they’ve rightly perceived as being a social flaw in themselves that they will know is not tolerated well by society, and only those very close to them would see they’re true nature/tendencies, which in modern society would only come to the surface in more insignificant ways as opposed to what we see Cercei do as royalty with free reign in fictional Westeros. At any rate, I will admit to feeling a bit sorry for those who, while they are inherently born mentally ill or maladjusted, at least realize deep down how flawed they are and lament the fact to some degree.

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    265. Matthew The Dragon knight: What’s the Longest we’ve ever waited for a Trailer announcement ? if they usually it, then we should be getting an announcement pretty soon. Favorite trailers where from seasons 2,3 and 4.

      The longest was for Season 3. They announced it on February 22nd and debuted it that night on the Jimmy Kimmel show. Here’s the announcement http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xxpgnd_game-of-thrones-season-3-trailer-debut-announcement_shortfilms

        Quote  Reply

    266. YgritTe,

      But is Cersei the way she is because she was born into a wealthy and privilleged position in society? Look at Tywin, he was certainly of the same type, perhaps not as bad. She was obviously indulged, being the only daughter. Tywin was even blind to the incestuous relationship with Jamie. Spoilt, and brought up in a family with a “born to rule” mentality is likely more her problem. She only gets away with what she does because of her position. “Successful” sociopaths learn to “act” like a reasonable human, because they need to to blend in and to get on is society. When one is the Queen and has absolute power, there is no need for such.

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    267. I actually like that there has not been a trailer because I LOVE visiting this site, but y’all are very spoilery when stuff gets leaked or is released, so I go into hiberation when filming/trailers/info etc abounds.
      Not complaining, your happiness makes me happy, but show ignorance is what gets my juices flowing. Well, that and….

        Quote  Reply

    268. YgritTe,
      That’s not really true, though? Within the context – which is not a democracy, but an oligarchy – she only wanted equality with her brothers. And I can’t fault her for that.

      Saying that she’s a narcissist is like seeing Jennifer Lawrence arguing that she should be paid equally as her male co-stars and saying, ‘you’re already getting millions, lady, what are you complaining about?’ Not the point.

      What’s funny is that the Starks and the Lannisters are really the only two major onscreen families who screw over their daughters this way. The Tyrells are at least open to pre-marriage sexual experimentation, the Martells are openly egalitarian, and even Stannis, before he caught a case of the fanaticism, was all ‘Shireen is my heir, and you will be loyal to her’.

      I’m not sure if Ned Stark would enjoy this comparison to Tywin Lannister. But it’s definitely there.

        Quote  Reply

    269. Sansa’s Knight:
      what do u think the trailer views will be like in the first 1 hour

      Well, considering that the first teaser (with NO new footage) has already 16+ millions of views, I’d say that the trailer will reach its first million of views pronto.

        Quote  Reply

    270. Mihnea,

      that’s very true!!! 🙂

      Seaon 4 trailer had 25million plus views

      wonder why season 5s was low?

      Edit: Actually, its probably because of the way season 3 ended, with the red wedding and all.

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    271. Season 5 teaser was low because everyone saw it the facebook HBO video, not the youtube one

      I read almost 400 comments, wondering why this thread was so exciting… still wondering why this got so big… the Beatles? Huh?

      We are clearly very bored…

        Quote  Reply

    272. Yaga,

      Well, I wasn’t specifically thinking in terms of gender equality. I’m not understanding the comparison to an actress who wants to be paid the same as a man…. forgive me, perhaps I missed something in the thread, which is entirely possible as it’s quite sizable 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    273. ladywolfsbane,

      We are definitely bored! But now have been relieved of the boredom for a bit, thanks to the great fandom here. And I like how it evolved into the Beatles of all things lol. Not that I’m a fan (not my music era) I just find random things like that amusing at times.

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    274. FanofTyrion,

      For sure her traits have a lot to do with her status and the way she was raised, however, it seems she was ripe for the corrupting. I based upon how they portrayed her as a young girl, already bitter. The way she mistreated her baby brother, how she cast aside Jamie’s feelings and only cared for herself when he returned from captivity with no hand. I saw kindness in her when she was talking with Sansa about her marriage to Joffrey. But that could be only cause Sansa was bending over backwards to be pleasing to the Lannisters. I could be wrong and maybe if she’d grown up a Stark she would be the warmest of human beings 🙂 Anyways, Lena does an excellent job with the role. Some people who read books and knew the character from that were disappointed in her now and then but I had no such prior attachments.

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    275. Yaga,

      The misogyny that Cersei faces is just one part of it though. It does not condone the things that she does. We feel sympathetic towards her because all her life she has been treated differently from Jaime because of her gender, she cannot inherit even though she is slightly older than Jaime. And she becomes a tool for her father’s ambition who first wants to marry her off to Rhaegar, and then marries her off to Robert without considering her wishes. And Robert’s behavior itself bordered on cruelty.
      On the other hand she always had a meanness in her, which was seen in her behavior towards Tyrion on his birth (Oberyn’s visit). Plus, nothing could condone her even more cruel acts like getting Robert’s bastards murdered.( In the books, on the show I think Joffrey is blamed for this).
      Plus, she overestimates her own intelligence way too much. She does not realize that she is not really smart, not intelligent, and when she actually has the power in her hands, she has no idea what to do with it.
      I guess it’s kinda sad that all her life she has faced misogyny, but she just is not mentally equipped to counter it. And her own stupidity and cruelty will lead to her downfall.

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    276. Could it be like. …
      [speculation]

      .Jon is given a new life ..by fire ….say they try to burn his body,….but his body doesn’t burn (((((and about the same time we get to know through bran that Jon is in fact rhaegars son (twist …,,,???))) . ..and Mel does her stuff ….pray to fire god.,who gives Jon a new life. ….

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    277. Deesensfan,

      season 5 views count is so low because the trailer debuted first on facebook. The facebook trailer had 25 million viewers if i remember correctly. If it debuted like it did in season 4, then seasosn 5 trailer would have had a lot more viewers than season 4.

        Quote  Reply

    278. ladywolfsbane:
      Season 5 teaser was low because everyone saw it the facebook HBO video, not the youtube one

      I read almost 400 comments, wondering why this thread was so exciting… still wondering why this got so big… the Beatles? Huh?

      We are clearly very bored…

      We are clearly very bored because there has been no new stories for 2 days! And the thread is this long because there’s nowhere else to post. I keep checking back and it’s always the Maisie story…….yikes!

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    279. Shy Lady Dragon,

      Where I live it was not the only series to watch, but it was one among only 2 or 3 options. And there were no reruns, so if you wanted to know who shot JR you had to watch it that day at that time. Nowadays with hundreds of options, many of them paid, GoT’s numbers are astonishing.

        Quote  Reply

    280. nipplesonabreastplate,

      I was just gonna ask why things were soooooo sloooooow. But clearly, we are all here out of boredom and because we need something to do in the GoT fandom so we might as well post a comment.

      Anyone care for a game?
      How about an alphabet game. Name a male, female, place and family or group in ASoIaF for each letter … :/
      Or … we did Top10s in the GRRM delay thread. Those were fun. 😉

      But seriously, what do you do to get your fix? Go to other sites? Stalk the stars’ instagrams?

        Quote  Reply

    281. dee,

      Just working and spending time at home with the wife. Sounds fun but after 7 years it get’s kinda boring. (if I have to watch MasterChef one more time i’ll kill myself..)

      I play football (”soccer” for the heretics) at a local club, will start practice on the 1st of february so that should make time fly faster.

        Quote  Reply

    282. Mihnea,

      Yeah, I ‘ve got a lot of work, but I love to go on fansites to unwind a bit. I do work out and meet friends, but somehow I still crave a Got/ASoIaF fix once a day or so. Maybe I should go cold turkey and not come here for a week or two. There are bound to be news after that.

        Quote  Reply

    283. dee,

      We are all so beyond bored now with now news we are pitiful..lol. I come every day hoping for a glimmer of news, doesn’t have to be a big deal or anything, but when it’s like this it’s way too easy to remember we still have a lot of days until Season 6 starts..deep sigh.

        Quote  Reply

    284. Lol, ok guys. If you’re bored…

      Here’s a wee bit of a thing I started writing last year. It’s a sample of around 12000 words, 30 a4 pages – basically, the intro/first part of it. The link goes to a docx file in my dropbox. As any author, I’d *love* some feedback. The address is yaga.dillon at gmail. Pretty please? ?

        Quote  Reply

    285. Game of Thrones is up for an award tonight at the National Television Awards (UK). It’s voted for by the public so just a popularity contest really. Maisie is presenting an award so maybe she’ll get to accept one on behalf of the team.

      International
      Will win: Game of Thrones

      Should win: Game of Thrones

      Which is better: Game of Thrones or The Big Bang Theory? Finally we have an answer, as the NTAs’ most incongruous pairing duke it out. It’s an interesting test of how far Thrones’s appeal has travelled: people who like it, love it, and in 2015 it was as ruthless and gossip-worthy as ever. But there are still hordes of punters who don’t have Sky and haven’t bothered with the box set. Could Big Bang’s vehement fandom spring a surprise? Probably not.

      Also nominated: Orange Is The New Black

      I don’t know the other nominations but would think ‘Fargo’ would have deserved a nod?

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    286. Mihnea,

      We didn’t know how good we had it.

      I’m starting to feel like I’m part of a massive social experiment. How long can we go without news before interest wanes? Are we reduced to dogs, pouncing on scraps and being grateful?

      Yes, I’m afraid so…

        Quote  Reply

    287. Mihnea,

      Or maybe the experiment is how long it takes for us to form resentments against whomever is the topic of the last post. Anyone else feeling slightly pissed of with Maisie Williams yet? 😉

        Quote  Reply

    288. Ser Not Appearing in this Series:
      Game of Thrones is up for an award tonight at the National Television Awards (UK). It’s voted for by the public so just a popularity contest really.Maisie is presenting an award so maybe she’ll get to accept one on behalf of the team.

      I don’t know the other nominations but would think ‘Fargo’ would have deserved a nod?

      Maisie posted this from her hotel room https://www.instagram.com/p/BAxJF9znqij/

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    289. Name *,

      Well, some interesting comments here:

      “I actually was a little bit angry because I’ve met for Game Of Thrones for every season but it never worked out,” he shrugs. “When you look at the show, how do I not fit in? It’s just one of those ones that I could never seem to get, until now. It’s not a regular role or a major role but the impact of what I do is epic,” he teases.

      “I play a Dothraki warrior, a leader. What I do affects the main characters. Really. It’s massive” he adds again.

      AND

      Has the door been left open for his character to return?

      “Well, a lot of people around me die. I didn’t die.”

      So feast yourselves on that little titbit, GOT lovers.

      Hmmm

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