Staz Nair joins the cast of Game of Thrones, and new major spoilers from Almería!

Staz Nair

More casting news this week! Actor/model Staz Nair is signing on to season six of Game of Thrones, appearing in an undisclosed role.

Nair’s credits include the upcoming movie Bazodee, and an appearance on Tyrant. He’s also a singer-songwriter and was a contestant on UK’s X-Factor in 2012 with the boyband Times Red.

A press announcement for Bazodee last month mentioned Nair’s casting on Game of Thrones, but it slipped past people’s notice at the time. The press release mentioned him joining the cast of Game of Thrones for “season eight” but given the other information, I think it’s safe to say they meant season six.

He came to our attention after WotW reader H.Stark spotted this Instagram photo from Spain. A fan posted a pic of himself, stating it was, “With Staz Nair, a new character in the sixth season of #gameofthrones.”

Con Staz Nair, un nuevo personaje de la sexta temporada de #juegodetronos #gameofthrones #staznair

A photo posted by Miguel Ángel García (@miguelgarsaez) on

As for what character he might be playing,well, Nair has been Instagramming photos from Spain. He visited the Palacio Real de Olite in Navarre and the Castildetierra mountain in Bardenas Reales, and has been working with horses. Game of Thrones has been filming Dothraki scenes with Emilia Clarke in Navarre recently. That, combined with his looks, points toward him being a Dothraki warrior.

Given that we’ve reached the end of Daenerys’s chapters from the published books, there’s a lot of guessing involved when it comes to Dothraki characters. Joe Naufahu is most likely the major khal we’re dealing with this season, whether it’s Jhaqo or Pono. There were however other named Dothraki characters in early casting calls, and some unnamed warrior roles, and we still don’t know who is playing these parts.


 

Speaking of the Dothraki….

SPOILERS AHEAD!

Temple

Photo: Ideal.es

Ideal.es reports that the US Ambassador to Spain, James Costos (an HBO exec before his diplomatic career), visited the Game of Thrones set in Almería at El Chorrillo, Sierra Alhamilla.

The ambassador was encouraging about Spanish prospects with regards to future film projects, mentioning current projects such as Mike Medavoy’s “The Promise” filming in Spain. “The talent in this country is enormous,” Costos says.

Here come the spoilers– for real, now!

Los Siete Reinos has more details about the filming this week. Ideal.es provided a photo of the temple without seeming to realize quite how informative it was.

Daniel Sackheim is directing these scenes, placing them into episodes 3 and/or 4 of season six. L7R mentions one person saw slates for episode 6, as well, but that’s not confirmed.

The photo above? That’s a Dothraki temple that’s been burnt, and as you might guess, it was Drogon doing the burning. The Dothraki will be impressed by Drogon’s firepower.

Edit: A possibility, though it sounds as though the witnesses are unclear on this: Dany may have been in the fire, and come out unscathed, which causes the Dothraki to adore her.

More spoilers!

  • Jorah and Daario will be spying on the camp, plotting to rescue their queen.
  • Some type of large celebration was filmed.
  • There was a meeting of khals.
  • Khalasars are differentiated by colors- for example, Khal Drogo in season 1 wore blue paint. Other khalasars will wear red, yellow, etc.
  • There’s a scene with over 400 extras, with a battle/brawl of some sort.
  • Filming tomorrow and possibly the 17th will be involving slaves.

For more details, visit Los Siete Reinos!

299 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. Those really are big spoilers, however expected they were! However, you skipped Dany getting out of the fire unharmed from L7R’s report!

      This great event will parallel Dany’s big episode fours in seasons two, three, four and five —all of them had “big shifts” in her arc, both in terms of character development and the plot, which divided her season’s arc cleanly in two: in Season 2, when she arrived at Qarth, did her speech and convinced Xaro to let her enter (the less impressive of them all, in my opinion); in Season 3, it was “Dracarys” and the sack of Astapor (the best!); in Season 4, the liberation of Meereen; and in Season 5, the Sons of the Harpy’s attack and death of Barristan. Seasons 1 had a similar moment, Viserys and his golden crown, though it was in episode six, not four. Though “the big shift” happened a few episodes later in the first season, it clearly parallels throughout all the seasons.

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    2. Whoa, he’s gorgeous.

      I’d rather Dany win over the Dothraki with charisma and savvy than with a magic trick, but that’s just me. Maybe she’ll use those qualities to convince the Dothraki to fight for her, as opposed to not treating her like a captive the way they will before this unburnt business.

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    3. So the Dothraki fighting in Daznak’s Pit with blue paint, he was one of Khal Drogo’s..

      Can someone please provide me the upcoming schedule dates of filmings? I mean, as far as we know, what is going to be filmed when and where. Thanks.

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    4. I said this in the other thread, but it’s more relevant here now that the post is up! This really helps snap the first part of Dany’s arc in Season 6 into clear focus, give or take a few details.

      So she’s captured and treated like a prisoner for the first two episodes as the Dothraki take her back to Vaes Dothrak. Drogon is nowhere to be seen. She arrives in Vaes Dothrak around Episode 3 and meets the Dosh Khaleen (including the old woman and the young Lhazarene widow). Meanwhile, Jorah and Daario are lingering around the edges of the camp, waiting for an opportunity to rescue her. A meeting of the Khals is called to determine Dany’s fate. During the meeting, Drogon shows up and torches the meeting hall. The surviving Dothraki bow to Daenerys and she assumes a position of power, if not leadership over all of the khalasaars (this strikes me as a killer ending for Episode 4, potentially). Then, starting in Episodes 5 and 6, Dany begins to rally the Dothraki and march them back towards Meereen (the scenes filmed in Bardenas Reales by Jack Bender, presumably).

      It all sounds great, in my opinion! And the timetable is fast enough that it leaves a few episodes for Dany to get back to Meereen and hopefully settle all her business there for good.

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    5. M,

      They are Dothraki. They won’t care for ”charisma” or how ”savy” Dany is. The only thing they understand is power.

      Don’t get me wrong tough, I would like to see Dany learn a bit from Meereen and do something like that, but I simply think the Dothraki are the wrong place to start doing that. Maybe Volantis later on.

      Also Dany has to say something to convince them to hold a meating of all Khals, if not then that 1 kalasar would just leave her at VD and wouldn’t bother with calling the other Khals to make a decision.

      On-Topic: I’m beyond excited!!!

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    6. Luka Nieto:
      Those really are big spoilers, however expected they were! However, you skipped Dany getting out of the fire unharmed from L7R’s report!

      This great event will parallel Dany’s big episode fours in seasons two, three, four and five —all of them had “big shifts” in her arc, both in terms of character development and the plot, which divided her season’s arc cleanly in two: in Season 2, when she arrived at Qarth, did her speech and convinced Xaro to let her enter (the less impressive of them all, in my opinion); in Season 3, it was “Dracarys” and the sack of Astapor (the best!); in Season 4, the liberation of Meereen; and in Season 5, the Sons of the Harpy’s attack and death of Barristan. Seasons 1 had a similar moment, Viserys and his golden crown, though it was in episode six, not four. Though “the big shift” happened a few episodes later in the first season, it parallels throughout all the seasons,

      Where does it say that. I can see Winter is Coming seem to think that’s what is happening, but I can’t see anywhere in the L7R link that suggests it.

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    7. OMG! OMG! Finally some news of DROGON in Season 6! Yes! 😀
      And not just Drogon, but Drogon doing what he does best; burning the bad down, burning the past down. And so early in the season too! 😀

      Luka Nieto: in Season 4, the liberation of Meereen;

      Let’s just very sincerely hope that her character arc shift in Season 6 does not parallel that of Season 4, which left her on a horribly written, unrealistic and boring arc for the rest of that season.

      EDIT: Staz Nair is some welcome eye-candy. 😀

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    8. Sue the Fury,
      Osentalka,

      Makes sense. I’ll help out if I can.

      The report says (the emphasis is theirs):

      “There is a great fire (at night) at a Dothraki temple. The interesting thing is that during it, Daenerys comes out of the flames and all the Dothraki bow before her. Everything points to Drogon being the cause of the fire.”

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    9. Sue the Fury:
      Luka Nieto,

      Because in the google translate version of the L7R post, it doesn’t say that. Something gets lost in translation, I guess.

      Allow me.

      “The big fire: (…) There is a big fire (nocturnal) in a Dothraki temple. The interesting thing is that Dany leaves the flames and all the Dothraki prostrate themselves before her. Everything points to the fire being caused by an attack by Drogon.”

      It appears that we don’t have confirmation that it was an attack by Drogon, but the author is saying that that’s the explanation supported by the information they have.

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    10. Do we know if J Podeswa was seen in Bardenas? Because I have troubles put in the right sequence the pics with Dany where she has her hands tied.

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    11. Luka Nieto,

      What I’m hearing is that the extra isn’t clear if Drogon burns everything including her or he actually skips her. Anyway, we knew she was fireproof in season 1 so…(unless people were still looking for reasons not to believe, but I guess they always are.)

      But also, I don’t duplicate all the details of someone else’s article as a rule. It’s poor form- hence me referring people to Los Siete Reinos for more details.

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    12. Kay:
      EDIT: Staz Nair is some welcome eye-candy.

      LOL, think that the Dothraki arc is just an excuse to cast as many gorgeous guys as possible in roles requiring them to be well-muscled and shirtless…not that you’ll hear me complaining. 🙂

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    13. Sue the Fury,

      I agree they clearly portraied Dany in S1 as fireproof even before the pyre. So no, that being just a 1 time thing is quite wrong.

      But people will always complain, even more those who don’t like Dany.

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    14. The articles says she will step out of fire and the dothraki will bow to her. So we can assume she’ll be unburnt, again. But they don’t say she’s unharmed. But it’s important to mention she’s in the tent during the fire because that leads to other conclusions.

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    15. Sue the Fury,

      My understandig was that she wasn’t fireproof because of who she is but because she burned Mirri Maz’Durr hence it’s some sort of fire-magic but she is not in control of it, at least this is what Martin said, off course D&D could do the opposite but I hope they won’t

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    16. Jared,

      You left out some kind of big skirmish with 400 extras there. Otherwise I think it is a bit fast for the timeline for four episodes, but maybe 5 or 6. I now have altered my own timeline that says that she has to get back to Meereen (two episodes more) and as you say tie things up there.

      I had a thought that her along with her dragons, Tyrion, Daario/Jorah (whichever if one survives) the Unsullied, maybe the Second Sons, but Daario is the only link to them and we haven’t exactly seen them lately and the Dothraki take to the seas by the end of the season.

      There has to be room for other story arcs in Season 6, it can’t be all Daeny and Co. If the show runners told the truth, Season 6 is going to pick up where 5 left off. So next season there has to be some movement/resolve on Jon, Mel, Davos, NW, Wildings, Others/WW??, Sansa, Theon, Ramsay/Bolton crew, Brienne/Pod, Jaime, Bronn, Trystane, Myrcella, Cersie and we also now know, Margaery/Tommen, HS. That is a lot, so Daeny can’t be the only one to get major air time, I think.

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    17. Some people don’t like the idea of Dany being fireproof because GRRM said the birthing of the dragons was a one time event and the targaryens aren’t immune to fire. So maybe yeah, in the books she’s not fireproof but in the show we had many scenes that suggest she is fireproof, not just the pyre scene, but also the bath scene (something they mention in the books though), the scene in THOTU and the dragon eggs scene. So I assume at least in the show she is immune to fire.

      Though in ADWD drogon breaths fire in her direction in the fighting pits scene and again only her hair is burned. She even mentions the same as the funeral pyre happened again, her hair was gone but she was ok. Eventually her hands get burned but that’s because of the riding on drogon/horses.

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    18. In the show, Dany was fireproof even before the funeral pyre. They had scenes dedicated to it- her hands not being burned by the scorched dragon eggs even when Irri found them to be super hot, Dany going into incredibly steaming hot baths. It’s one of those show vs. books differences people just need to deal with.

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    19. Kargaryen,

      Agree, many people cling to what Martin said there, but they ignore what is written in the books.
      Dany at Daznak is 1 example, just like you mention it.

      Mirri saving Dany was a huge mistake made by Martin in my opinion, the only purpose it served is giving fuell to people who don’t like her.
      1 thing is he never made it clear enough, until that moment the majority of the fandom belived Dany was fireproof. And even in his latest writings, there is absolutly nothing to suggest she isn’t fireproof. Daznak being a good example.

      This is in my opinion just like J.K.R. saying Dumbledore was gay. You either make it clear from the beggining, correct it in the books themselves or simply say nothing.
      Like Tolkien did with Tom Bombadillo.

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    20. darksianna:
      Sue the Fury,

      My understandig was that she wasn’t fireproof because of who she is but because she burned Mirri Maz’Durr hence it’s some sort of fire-magic but she is not in control of it, at least this is what Martin said, off course D&D could do the opposite but I hope they won’t

      The TV can double back on this, but from that TV-only bit in Season 1 where Dany wasn’t burned by the dragon egg after it had been sitting in the coals, I assumed that TV Dany is fireproof, even though Book Dany is not because GRRM made it clear that in the books it was a one-off magical ritual, blah blah blah.

      As for Dany time hogging the season, I’m guessing she’s going to sit out Episode 9 because there won’t be room for anything but that big Northern battle, so that might result in having more time in the other episodes. If Dany’s big unburnt moment happens earlier in the season, I doubt Dany will have that much to do later on other than get her ass to Meereen. I saw something about filming with slaves in Almeria on October 16th and 17th, so I’m guessing they’re heading to Meereen. Maybe some former slaves tell Dany “You gotta get your ass to Meereen, shit is fucked up” and she heads out at the head of the Dothraki group with Daario.

      On another note, I’m curious to see what (if anything) happens with Rhaegal and Viserion this season. Everything we know so far about the Meereen storyline has everything to do with civil turmoil and nothing to do with the dragons. I’m wondering if Tyrion just lets them languish until Dany shows up. To be fair, any bits with the dragons locked up would be filmed as interiors, but it just seems strange, especially given Tyrion’s curiosity about dragons.

      ETA: Tom Bombadil was gay????

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    21. Mihnea,

      “There’s a big fire (during the night) in a Dothraki temple. Interesting thing is that Daenerys comes out of the flames and all of the Dothraki bow to her. Everything points to Drogon to be the responsible of this fire. In fact, there already are photos from the temple being devastated by the fire… ”

      It is not clear if it was Drogon’s attack, but it makes sense. Also, whenever they film Drogon (and any CGI), they use some sort of… “something” that indicates where the CGI thing is going to be, as a guide for the actors. Last season it was a dragon foot. For this season, since dragons grow up, it was said that they were going to use a dragon nail or something. Maybe asking if there was this “Drogon indicator” could give us some hint about what’s going on there.

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    22. M,

      Exactly even if in the books she isn’t, altough Martin really has to make this clear once and for all in the books themselves, the show has showed her being fireproof before the pyre. So now just making her not fireproof would couse needless confusion among the audiance.

      Also agree with you she might sit EP9 or have a minimal presance, it all really depands how big the battle in the north is.

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    23. darksianna,

      The burning of Mirri had nothing to do with daeny’s “fire-proofness”. But had everything to do with the birth of the dragons. Or, a piece of the magical puzzle needed for their birth. That was my understanding, anyways. *shrug*

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    24. Mihnea:
      Sue the Fury,

      I agree they clearly portraied Dany in S1 as fireproof even before the pyre. So no, that being just a 1 time thing is quite wrong.

      But people will always complain, even more those who don’t like Dany.

      Dany is fireproof or simply resistant to fire (bath scene or with dragon eggs) in the show and it’s clear since season 1 before funeral pyre, but not in the books. Book purists would argue books>show so therefore Dany is not fireproof. Some people just can’t stand her but whatever.

      Dany is the Last Dragon, Targaryen Fire&Blood. I remember how kickass was that entrance by White Walker through flames in Hardhome episode. This will top it for sure. Just imagine it.

      I would like to know if she is going to command all three dragons or not. They cut out that stuff about three headed dragon, but maybe they will inroduce it like Warrior of Light or One who was Promised.

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    25. I think Martin only meant that being fireproof was a Dany trait as the Mother of Dragons, that’s why it’s a “one time thing”, and not a straight-up Targaryen trait. So all those “Jon can’t be a Targaryen because he burned his hand!” people are being foolish.

      Dany walks into the too hot bath and handles burning hot eggs in both the books and the show. She qualifies as fireproof.

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    26. darksianna,

      So do I. Her being unburnt once due to a combination of her Targ blood, magic and sacrifice makes more sense than her somehow being fire resistant. Not a single Targaryen ever was. And neither were other Valyrians. What made her unique in that? And she wasn’t shown to be immune to fire before the pyre, only that she was more heat tolerant. D&D sure love to remind us of how special she is at every corner. Let’s see how far they’ll take it.

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    27. M,

      Should have expressed myself clearer, no one really knows what Tom is, because Tolkien never mentioned it, and said ”stories need some mistery” wich I agree completly.

      So no Tom is not gay, I was meaning his nature not being completly reviled.

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    28. phantomstrife,

      She is AA, the champion of light, the mother of dragons. That is what makes her fireproof, not just being a Targaryan.

      Besides she is clealy 100% fireproof in the show. Retconning that would be a huge mistake.

      Especially when only a minority is bothered by this.

      Irri burned her hands with the dragon eggs, while it didn’t even bothered Dany. You are just grasping at straws here.
      She is fireproof. Deal with it.

      Just because you don’t like the fact that Dany is special doesn’t mean other people don’t.

      Have you ever tought, that perhaps she is portraied as special, means she really is special?
      Why not portray her that way if she IS special, just because some people don’t like her?

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    29. JCDavis,

      You’re right, I left that part out, as well as the large celebration that’s mentioned. That’s because I don’t think we can nail down those two events as taking place before, during, or after Drogon torches the meeting of the Khals – at least not yet. Maybe the brawl with 400 extras is part of the chaos that surrounds Drogon’s arrival. Maybe it’s tied into the large celebration (as they say, a Dothraki wedding without three deaths is considered a dull affair)! Maybe it’s something else entirely. Hopefully we’ll get more information soon, either from this article or a future set report.

      I agree that if Dany essentially has control of the Dothraki by Episode 4, that timeline seems a little fast. But that doesn’t mean it’s inaccurate. We’ve heard reports from several cast members (including Emilia Clarke herself) that this season hits the ground running and wastes no time. Benioff and Weiss went on record after Tyrion and Dany met last year that “we’re not going to spend four seasons in Meereen”. Season 6 marks Year 3, meaning all of the characters we care about have to be out of that city by the end of Episode 10 if we’re going to meet that timetable. We also had reports of Emilia Clarke and Michel Huisman filming in Bardenas Reales a few weeks ago. Dany was leading a procession of Dothraki extras with Daario beside her, and she seemed to be free and in command (in other reports, presumably picking up soon after the end of Season 5, she’s clearly a prisoner). Jack Bender was also known to be in Spain around that time, and he’s directing Episodes 5 and 6. If Drogon’s return has allowed Dany to establish herself by the end of Episode 4, then I think that timeline fits.

      If everything we’re speculating about comes to pass, then Episodes 1-4 may be indeed be heavy on screentime for Dany,. But there should still be plenty of time to service the other characters. Scenes that seem like massive, time-consuming setpieces can often pass by fairly quickly on screen (The incredible scene when Dany sacks Astapor took less than 7 minutes).

      Every year we wonder how they’re going to fit all of the major plot points and character storylines into 10 episodes without screwing with the narrative balance, and every year they pull it off reasonably well. After all of the excitement in the first half of the season, I think Dany may go through a bit of a midseason lull while other characters rise to the forefront. Then she can show up in Meereen at the end of the season, clean it out, and leave.

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    30. Mihnea:
      phantomstrife,

      She is AA, the champion of light, the mother of dragons. That is what makes her fireproof, not just being a Targaryan.

      Well said. Although, I don’t know where Jon fits in all of this (he might be PtwP), because he dreamed about fighting WW/Others with a sword burning in his hand and wearing armor of black ice.

      Since he’s going to be resurrected and probably reborn. Some even say he’s gonna wake up from the fire (not sure here). I wonder how they will tie or resolve this up. It’s possible that both are? It’s possible that Jon was just wounded in the book and his body will be healed by Mel, while his soul will be inside of Ghost. But in the show he was clearly killed.

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    31. Fedejru:

      Can someone please provide me the upcoming schedule dates of filmings? I mean,as far as we know, what is going to be filmed when and where. Thanks.

      Things may have changed, but as far as I can recall, they’re going to be filming in Almería at the current location (El Chorrillo, Sierra Alhamilla) through October 23. They will also be filming at the Mesa Roldán on October 18-19 and at the Alcazaba on October 20-21. Supposedly they’ll be filming at Tabernas and Sorbas as well, but I don’t think we ever got definitive dates for those locations.

      Back in Northern Ireland, filming in Corbet (Riverrun) may start as soon as next week now that the issues that caused the delay have been resolved.

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    32. Mihnea,

      Did I miss some passage that mentioned the original Azor Ahai was fireproof?

      Again, she was not shown to be immune to fire, just tolerant to heat. Hot water, hot eggs. She never stuck her hand in fire and pulled it out unscathed, before she hopped onto the pyre.

      So she’s AA, but also TSTMTW, TPTWP, what else? Why do we even bother with other characters?

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    33. Mihnea,

      How did they portray her as fireproof before the pyre? You mean heat/burn proof by holding hot dragon eggs and entering a scalding hot bath? That’s not fire proof by any stretch.
      Best example would be in season 2 when the dragon fire passes thru her as it burns Pyat Pree, but maybe this was explained as being a camera angle trick? Perhaps it was meant to be ambiguous as to if the flames went thru her or right next to her.

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    34. I better see Iain Glen doing more filming after this bit, or I will riot (by myself, outraged, in my office, but still a riot dammit!)

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    35. Geralt of Rivia,

      Don’t know here. Things could really go down in many different ways.

      But 1 thing I’m very certain, is that Dany and Jon are a very big part of the prophecy, no matter wich one you go with.

      Altough Jon clearly is more connected with the PTWP prophecy.
      And Dany with the red priests. and AA prophecies.

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    36. Pigeon: I better see Iain Glen doing more filming after this bit, or I will riot (by myself, outraged, in my office, but still a riot dammit!)

      He’s one of my favorite characters, so I am a bit worried. At least he’s been spotted in Vaes Dothrak, but he wasn’t with Dany and Daario and the khalesar on the way back to Meereen. Hopefully he’s just sent alone to Meereen to quickly deliver the message that Dany is not only alive and well but coming back with an army. At least, I hope that’s the case… I don’t want him to die! I mean, he probably will, eventually. Sadly, that’s just gotta happen, with the greyscale and all. But I don’t want it to happen until the story is nearer its end!

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    37. phantomstrife,

      I’m not even going to bother. You are clearly angry that a character you don’t like, is more special the other characters.

      No point in talking, you clearly made-up your mind, and you clearly just want to complain about it.

      Darjan,

      She is fireproof in the show.
      When S6 will come out you will see, if these rumors are true, and then of course you will be glad, because you have reasons to complain just how bad it is.

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    38. Dany is fireproof, so long as she is around her dragons. I believe George mentioned something about Dany and Targaryens in general being heat resistant when it involved their dragons(how else would they be able to ride them?). I think you could still make the case in the show that Dany would burn to death if it didn’t involve her dragons. But I don’t expect that to ever happen, so it’s pointless to debate it.

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    39. Exit81,

      Show me the scene in which she sticks her hand or foot or any other part of her body in fire and remains unhurt? She just goes into a hot bath and holds hot eggs. That’s heat, not fire. The pyre scene was the first and only time she subjected herself to fire. And like GRRM said it was a solitary case that happened due to a magical sacrifice.
      It should also be noted that was normal fire. Here we have dragonfire. Much more potent.

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    40. Doesn’t Dany get hurt by the eggs in the show and then they take care of her hands? I think she gets burned usually…she doesn’t feel it…. maybe i am wrong, i have to re-watch it.

      Nope i just re-watched it…she doesn’t get hurt or feel anything.

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    41. Maggie,

      She takes the eggs and doesn’t get hurt. One of her servants (Irri?) burns her hands trying to save her from the eggs. They’re both left puzzled by the fact that Dany has no injuries, but the servant does.

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    42. Mihnea: I agree they clearly portraied Dany in S1 as fireproof

      They portrayed her as heat and flame resistant, which is (as labels always clearly emphasize) very different from fireproof.

      Daeny escaping from a fire unharmed will not mark her as fire-proof unless she’s in a full conflagration again. After all, mere mortals escape from fires unharmed every day. And, of course, being fire/heat resistant probably helps that substantially!

      (And, of course, who knows: maybe the circumstances are right so that the same magic is triggered again.)

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    43. Mihnea,

      Mel is a red priestess. She says her powers are much stronger at the Wall in the books. She asks for a glimpse of AA and Rh’llor shows her Jon. I think a case can be made that there are multiple AA/PtwP, and that the 3 headed dragon may be part of that. But if there was only one character that fit the prophecy, then I would say it is Jon.

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    44. Check out the “Costumes – Dothraki” section on the wiki:

      http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Costumes%3A_Essos#Dothraki

      It has quotes and stuff by Clapton explaining her idea for how different khalasars use different colors of body paint.

      If you notice, while Drogo’s khalasar used blue paint in Season 1, the horse sent by Khal Jhaqo (with Rakharo’s head) at the beginning of Season 2 used red paint.

      She said Drogo’s used blue because it’s basically the most expensive color dye they have (much like how purple was the imperial color to the Romans because it was the most expensive color dye). This is also why Daenerys wore blue a lot in her subsequent dress designs: it’s the Dothraki power color.

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    45. Wimsey,

      And it wouldn’t have worked with a tv series very well if her hair had been completely burned off as in the books. Not a particularly glamourous look for tv!

      Luka Nieto: He’s one of my favorite characters, so I am a bit worried. At least he’s been spotted in Vaes Dothrak, but he wasn’t with Dany and Daario and the khalesar on the way back to Meereen. Hopefully he’s just sent alone to Meereen to quickly deliver the message that Dany is not only alive and well but coming back with an army. At least, I hope that’s the case… I don’t want him to die! I mean, he probably will, eventually. Sadly, that’s just gotta happen, with the greyscale and all. But I don’t want it to happen until the story is nearer its end!

      Me too….me too. He has lasted longer than I had originally hoped (I didn’t expect him to survive Season 5), however that doesn’t make it hurt any less to lose him.

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    46. viserys was burnt by drogo and dany was specific in pointing out he wasn’t a true targeryan. therefore in my opinion a true blood targeryan doesn’t burn. me thinks dany’s father too couldn’t burn that’s why he was yelling to his death “burn them all”!

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    47. I am ANYTHING but a book purist and I have seen nothing in the show to suggest that Dany is immune to fire. Her entering the burning bath and holding the hot egg just shows she’s resistant to heat – Like all Targaryens.

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    48. Luka Nieto,

      The relative lack of Iain Glen sightings so far, especially relative to Michiel Huisman, has me a bit concerned as well. Hopefully there’s a good explanation, or else it’s just random chance that he hasn’t been seen him on set as much as the others have (he has been sighted at restaurants and such in the area, so that’s good news). Maybe she sends him ahead to Meereen, as you suggest, or maybe he’s subtly but deliberately trying to keep his distance in order to conceal his Greyscale and/or protect her. It’s true that he was fine with touching her hand at Daznak’s Pit last season, but I suspect that we’ll learn quite early in the new season that his condition is getting worse, and progressing faster than he feared.

      Still, even if the purpose of giving Jorah Greyscale was just to give him a slow death sentence rather than set him up to spread it throughout the Seven Kingdoms, I’d still be very surprised if he died before Dany makes it back to Westeros. One of my favorite scenes in Season 1 is when Dany asks him what he prays for, and Jorah answers, sadly and quietly, “Home”. Dany may never love him the way he loves her, and he may never see her established on the Iron Throne, but hopefully she can give him that, at least.

      Furthermore, now that Jorah has managed to reestablish himself in his Queen’s good graces, it seems like a perfect setup for the show to ring at least a season’s worth of dramatic angst out of their interactions as Jorah gradually succumbs and Dany is powerless to help him. We all know from the past five years of the show that no one plays silent, long-suffering anguish better than Iain Glen.

      Damn, I’m getting sad just thinking about this …

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    49. BigMac,

      So in your eyes that was just worldbuilding, not foreshadowing at all?

      Come on… Those scenes had a clear narrative purpose. And it wasn’t to tell us the Targaryens like heat more than the average fella.

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    50. last targeryan,

      Viserys is a true Targaryen. No Targaryen has ever been fire proof in the books. They are heat resistant when it comes to dragons, but each and every one of them would die if they walked into a fire and stayed there. It was just a cool line.

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    51. Ooh, it’s good to be back. Seems like I didn’t miss any major spoilers?

      I know that the discussion is about book-vs.-show (as usual), but one thing that’s funny to me is that the khalasars (khalasars or khals?) are differentiated by colour. I know that it’s really no different than being differentiated by heraldry, but it still feels funnily like a strategy game to me. 😀

      Also, I’m now thinking of a poor colourblind Dothraki getting lost on the way back to his own khalasar after peeing!

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    52. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      Ah I agree. I just find it hard to think that Dany has no part in that prophecy, especially because she was the on who brought the dragons back.

      But I think both of them are parts of the prophecy both Jon and Dany, just don’t really know where they both stand.

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    53. Luka Nieto,

      Other than the bath scene, every other fire resistance incident with Dany involved her dragons. The dragons are magic. Targaryens have a high heat tolerance when it involves their dragons.

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    54. Mihnea,

      A lot of clues pointing at Daeny in the book being AAR and some for Jon. They’re clearly two main candidates. There is a lot of connection between them thought the books or show. Jon is a lot more involved in PtwP as you said it and show even invented his scene with Ned, and the infamous word promose “I promise” show “Promise me, Ned”. There might be a reason for it or not.

      Daeny is clear representation of Fire=Champion of Light. Moe fitting than Jon. Although R’hllor have some kind of a plan for Jon, since he’s leading Mel to him. If Jon is who he is…he’s not only fire but some sort of a balance of ice and fire. STMTW is most likely Drogon or Daeny with Drogon. AAR Daeny and PtwP Jon perhaps? Don’t know about Last Hero.

      Funny thing that the audio with that actress auditioning for Kinvara said that Daeny is the One Who Was Promised which is either incorrect or Daeny is all those AAR, STMTW and PtwP=that would mean she’s Rhaegar’s and Lyanna’s daughter isn’t it?

      Tyrion Pimpslap,

      If there is one characters that fits AAR prophecy more than anyone it’s Daeny, but Jon is somehow connected to it as well.
      Three headed dragon is term was never used in the show (unlike Warrior of Light) but might be in the future or some version of it. Since Tyrion is probably going to do something with dragons in the catacombs. Some people seems to think that Tyrion will ride a dragon. Or might be that three headed dragon will be controlled by only Daeny. We’ll see.

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    55. last targeryan,

      Aerys was screaming “Burn them all!” because he had wildfire all over King’s Landing and would rather see the city, its people, and its conquerors burn than lose it. He was crazy. I don’t think he cared if he died too, or just didn’t realize it.

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    56. Mihnea,

      If they could spend an entire episode at the Wall with the Night’s Watch, I would put money on the entire episode (8 or 9) being dedicated to the North.

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    57. last targeryan,

      Vyseis told A LOT of lies to Danaerys, like the fact that in Westeros all folks are waitig their return. She belived all of them because she had no other informations.
      A very large number of Targaryens actually died in flames.

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    58. Whatever happened to characters like Kovarro? I wonder if they’ll touch on the absence of many Dothraki after season 2. It’s jarring to see Dany surrounded by familiar and even some named Dothraki for all of season 2, and then to jump into season 3 and they’re just gone, save for unnamed and unfamiliar extras.

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    59. Valaquen,

      Wasn’t Kovarro the only absence? The others died —Irri, Doreah and Rakharo. Kovarro was the only named character left in Dany’s khalasar by the end of Season 2. The actor left for another show. It’s not such a big deal, honestly. It was just one guy, and he was little more than an extra. Rakharo was much more heavily featured, and he had been there since season one; but he was killed properly.

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    60. It will be interesting if Dany steps out of the fire alive, right in front of the Dothraki. The Dothraki does seems to be more superstitious, if they saw such an event it would definitely make them follow Dany. It is good to hear that these events will be early in the season, perhaps she could even leave for Westeros in episode 10. Leaving for Westeros would be a good ending for her arc this season.

      They like to use parallel events for Dany and Jon’s stories. Or at least one could say that it was quite visible in season 5. If Dany has an event early in the season where she walks out of a fire, it does make make me wonder if there might also be fire involved for Jon’s resurrection.

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    61. Boudica: It will be interesting if Dany steps out of the fire alive, right in front of the Dothraki. The Dothraki does seems to be more superstitious, if they saw such an event it would definitely make them follow Dany.

      It certainly worked in season one 🙂

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    62. It looks like they’re going for the Chosen One, One Warrior, One Saviour type of story, given how they cut out most prophecies, some characters and diminished many others’ significance/abilities (no warging for the Stark kids but Bran, no Nymeria and her huge pack, Jon will be a reanimated corpse and his resurrection will only come to pass due to others like Mel and not his own ‘specialness’ ala Dany’s burning pyre event in the show, bet he will not even do a lot against the Boltons and so on). D&D have chosen Dany to be their champion. Westeros will be in disarray from the WW/wights threat, characters like Jon will be struggling in their attempts to nulify them, the others will be fighting among each others, then Dany will come at the 11th hour and save the day.

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    63. Geralt of Rivia,

      AA Reborn and PtwP are the same thing. George even used them together in a season 2 video describing Mel’s belief about Stannis. I could go on a quick rundown on why Jon is both, if it refers to only one individual.

      – Has a sword that was pulled from the fire that burned down Mormont’s Tower(A fire that started when Jon killed a wight)

      – He appears when Melisandre asks for a vision of AA in the flames, and this happens when Mel’s powers are strongest at the Wall.

      – Has a dream(prophetic?) of wielding a sword that is on fire

      – Rhaegar said that the Prince Who Was Promised had a song, and it was called ‘The Song Of Ice And Fire’. Jon is the personification of Ice(Stark) and Fire(Targaryen)

      – In ADWD, directly proceeding his death, we see the red stars bleed(Ser Patrek’s cloak, after being torn to shreds by Wun Wun), the salt(tears in the eyes of the mutineers), and smoke(The steam from Jon’s wounds are described as smoking). All of this happens before his eventual rebirth/resurrection.

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    64. Am I the only one who is NOT excited about all this? I am so sick of Dany in Mereen, Dany with the Dothraki, Dany being on the other side of the world. Seriously, it doesn’t matter where she is, every scene with Dany is such a huge bore. It might be because I think Emilia Clarke is probably the worst actress of the bunch, but the though of them dragging out her story even further in Essos is really like WHAT THE F*@$K

      Also, really, she’s going to bring a hoard of Dothraki to Westeros when Winter is coming? Ok, great, how not exciting.

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    65. Geralt of Rivia,

      Agree with you here.

      I always had some toughts/guesses, that all those are one and the same. But it gets harder when you put both Jon and Dany in the equation.

      I still think that Dany is AAR tough, she bringing the dragons back, is simply to big of a thing for me. She really fits all the parts of that prophecy.
      But of course this leaves Jon. Where does he stand in this maze of prophecies? Like you said here there are clues that point him too multiple prophecies.
      I really don’t know. They are both equally important tough, that I belive. But I have no idea what will their future role be, in this war for the dawn.

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    66. phantomstrife,

      Ah and here you confirm my doubts.
      You are not interesed in a disscussion.
      You just want to rant a bit because the story didn’t go the way you wanted.

      Also you not liking the story doesn’t mean there aren’t other people who do.

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    67. Nadia: Am I the only one who is NOT excited about all this? I am so sick of Dany in Mereen, Dany with the Dothraki, Dany being on the other side of the world. Seriously, it doesn’t matter where she is, every scene with Dany is such a huge bore. It might be because I think Emilia Clarke is probably the worst actress of the bunch, but the though of them dragging out her story even further in Essos is really like WHAT THE F*@$K

      Yes. You’re the only one. You’re just so goshdarn special. Enjoy it!

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    68. Luka Nieto:
      Valaquen,

      Wasn’t Kovarro the only absence? The others died —Irri, Doreah and Rakharo. Kovarro was the only named character left in Dany’s khalasar by the end of Season 2. The actor left for another show. It’s not such a big deal, honestly. It was just one guy, and he was little more than an extra. Rakharo was much more heavily featured, and he had been there since season one; but he was killed properly.

      Not a big deal at all, just one of those things that stands out when I rewatch. There was an older Dothraki who survived to the end of S2 as well, I believe, with a long grey beard. Don’t think he was named. But I wish Kovarro was mentioned somehow. I looked up the actor and he seemed to be prepped to film season 3 and has very few other credits since then.

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    69. Mihnea,

      This debate has a reasinably simple answer! It is akin to the debate Harry Potter fans had: did Voldemort leave his soul in Harry’s scar? Yes! Said some of us, for reason a, b and c. No! Said others for reasons d, e and f.

      Then Rowling said “7.” Well, GRRM has said “3.” This is not a hard-or, but a soft-or: and, really, the question should not be “which” but who is the 3rd?

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    70. Count me in with the “totally bored with Dany spoilers” group.

      I am longing for some shots of NCW filming on the Riverrun set.

      Weren’t they building some other structure in Spain? I want Cersei’s trial by combat. I need it.

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    71. Mihnea,

      If you assume the dragons are Lightbringer, and not a sword, then she could fit most of the requirements, though the red comet cam after the dragons were born and Dany walked from the fire, and I’m not sure where the salt comes from or how she was “reborn” when she never died. IDK, with Dany it seems like most of the prophecy would not be literal. Whereas with Jon, again, he has a sword that was pulled from the fire and has a dream about wielding a burning sword. He is going to be reborn into the world when he is resurrected. To me, Jon has more checkmarks than Dany, but they are probably dual AA’s.

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    72. Luka Nieto,

      Martin has been subverting the One Champion trope since the very first book. It’s clear many characters will be significant in the coming war for dawn. That doesn’t look like the case in the show.

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    73. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      I agree, with Dany most of the prophecy is not literally.

      Salt has been theorized to be the tears..? Perhaps from Dany crying or even Mirri.
      But I agree with this. Dany in the prophecy really needs a bit of streching so she can fit all those cryterias, or thinking outside the box.

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    74. 6×01: Daenerys as prisoner. The khalasar rides. Drogon is nowhere to be seen. Nor do we see Jorah and Daario, save for a minute or two at most, establishing how utterly lost they are at this.

      6×02: Daenerys as prisoner, still. But she’s impressing herself upon certain new, sympathetic Dothraki characters. Jorah and Daario find what she left for them, and follow the trail as they realize she is headed to Vaes Dothrak.

      6×03: Daenerys reaches Vaes Dothrak, where all the khals debate and the crones insist she never leave. Khalasars are a few bad words from tearing eachother apart. Jorah and Daario approach.

      6×04: During the fever pitch of a great meeting, it is decided that Daenerys shall burn, to disprove her legend and reveal her true worth. Jorah and Daario hatch their plan to rescue her, but Drogon arrives to light the biggest fire the khals have ever seen. All perish, and open warfare erupts, but Daenerys’ spectacle and Drogon’s terror bring the survivors to heel.

      6×05: The united khalasar begins its great march. Mostly we re-establish Jorah’s worsening condition… and Daario discovers it, but says nothing.

      6×06: No screentime.

      6×07: The khalasar arrives at Meereen’s gates, bringing Daenerys back in alignment with Tyrion, through whose arc weve seen how dire things have become. Despite plague and famine and Sons of the Harpy, Tyrion has managed to bring some parts of the city to their cause. Daenerys weighs her options.

      6×08: Some further terror prompts Daenerys to raze all those who stand in open defiance and bring all others west posthaste. The Battle of Fire begins — an insular struggle in the show version, but a battle for true nonetheless.

      6×09: No screentime.

      6×10: Daenerys’ final solution rages on. Tyrion commands well, and the armies fight well. In the chaos, Daario murders Jorah, whose greyscale has neared terminal of mental faculty. Tyrion finds he must unleash Viserion and Rhaegal, and to his astonishment, they appear to do as bid. Meereen burns. Daario tells Daenerys that Jorah died nobly in service of his queen. And with the combined might of the Dothraki, Unsullied, many Meereenese revolutionaries, three great dragons and a huge fleet of ships (hey, I don’t know how either) Daenerys heads west.

      Just one humble lad’s half-cocked wish-fulfillment fanciful fan-fiction-y greendream. Pay me no heed; we O’Connors are naught but northern bastards, all. 😛

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    75. phantomstrife,

      Are you actually serious? What about Bran learning to be tree Jesus? What about Jon, the action hero & diplomat & probably son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, etc? You’re telling me these guys have no mythic significance at all, in the show. Give me a break.

      Jeff O’Connor: a huge fleet of ships (hey, I don’t know how either)

      In the show Dany has had a fleet since she conquered Meereen. 94 ships, if I recall correctly. Enough for the Unsullied, yet not for the new khalasar as well. I guess they’ll have to take Volantis’ fleet.

      Otherwise, I agree with your assessment of how things may go down, mostly. I hope Jorah doesn’t die, and I think that a battle, if there is one, will take place earlier than that (episode 7 or so). Still, great prediction!

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    76. Exit81,

      I think it was mentioned that he thought himself a dragon. So, when he was about to burn the city to the ground with wildfyre, he thought he would rise as a dragon and kill all his foes.
      The most astonishing part of that reasoning was that he wasn’t the first Targaryen to try it.

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    77. BigMac: I am ANYTHING but a book purist and I have seen nothing in the show to suggest that Dany is immune to fire. Her entering the burning bath and holding the hot egg just shows she’s resistant to heat – Like all Targaryens.

      Dany definitely does have some heat resistance in the books. But in the show it is properly more interesting and dramatic to make her practically fireproof. It also marks her more directly as someone special to be noticed.

      In the books it also seems like the Starks or Ned at least might be resistant to the cold, I wish they had also included that into the show.

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    78. For me Dany IS fireproof in the show. As for the books… We can take Martin’s words for probably an interviewer, after being asked a thousand of other questions when he said the funeral pyre was an one time event or his own words in ADWD, which of course had a lot of reviews before it was published, that states:

      “Only the birth of her dragons amidst the fire and smoke of Khal Drogo’s funeral pyre had spared Dany herself from being dragged back to Vaes Dothrak to live out the remainder of her days amongst the crones of the dosh khaleen.
      The fire burned away my hair, but elsewise it did not touch me. It had been the same in Daznak’s Pit.

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    79. In the books it also seems like the Starks or Ned at least is might be resistant to the cold, I wish they had also included that into the show.

      I trully wonder where you got this from? An honest question, no sarcasm here.

      I always tought that the Northeners, not only the Starks, are more comfortable with the cold.
      But no different then someone from Iceland is used with it. never tought of anything magical/special about it.

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    80. last targeryan,

      Daenerys said that Viserys was not a true dragon, that does not mean he’s not a full blooded Targaryen. Viserys was a true Targaryen. Aerys was also a true Targaryen but no one believed him to be a true dragon, in fact while alive people referred to Rhaegar as the last dragon (though of course he had no way to prove it as there were no dragons left). Many full blooded Targaryens died by fire, Aegon V is perhaps one of the most famous one to die in a fire. There was another one that decided to drink wild fire and that of course didn’t work as he expected. And yet another that was eaten by a dragon in front of her son, another Targaryen, who was thereafter terrified of dragons. Daenerys may yet be the last dragon but there was never any doubt that Viserys was a Targaryen as well.

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    81. Luka Nieto,

      I didn’t say all characters were stripped off some significance and magical themes. But the fact remains they have made warging unique to Bran among the Stark kids. The bond with their direwolves is pretty non-existent. The direwolves are barely there, while they have shown us Dany’s bond with Drogon and spent way more time on the dragons.

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    82. I thought it was pretty clear since season 1 that she was fireproof (at least in the show). Regardless of what GRRM said, we can’t judge that future season 6 scene because it makes sense in the shows canon, period.

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    83. For me:
      Dany = TSWMTW/AAR
      Jon = TPTWP/AAR

      So in my view both would be AA but I don’t think they will ever confirm “character X or Y is AAR”.

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    84. phantomstrife,

      Because…I know this may be hard to understand, but just bare with me, the dragons are more important then the direwolfs.

      What a shock! A huge dragon, who is most likely the key to save the world is more important then a direwolf that…doesn’t do anything at all.

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    85. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      Ofcoure all three prophecies are one and same AAR and TPtWp and TSWMTW …they are all from the same prophecy talks about an promised Prince

      There are multiple times dany’s dragons are referred to as light bringer and flaming swords

      He has a sword that mormont gave him …funny how there was no bleeding stars when he drew the sword from fire like prophecy says …but dany drew the dragons from fire when there was a bleeding star

      He appears in the Mel vision when Mel asks to see who she thinks as arya

      Its always easy to dream about something when you where thinking about it and know the tale of lightbringer

      Rhaegar said his is the song of ice and fire and not he is the song of ice and fire

      The sigil of set patrek was a blue star ..unless the prophecy is changed to blue star bleeding ..I don’t see a point and also that sigil was there was because GRRM lost a bet and he is going to give the event like that based on that …
      And he is dying not reborn at that place ..unless he wakes straight away …I don’t see how that point holds either …

      If it is one then it will be dany no other ….

      Its how usually how it is in this forum ….trying to make fit everything to make Jon as the one instead of following all the leads in the books which are pointing to dany and one simple reason give is it will be too obvious like Jon won’t be ..this is not particularly directed at you ..

      Its always been dany ….and she as AAR and TpTWP has more clues in the five the books than the R+ L = J

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    86. Jeff O’Connor,

      “Just one humble lad’s half-cocked wish-fulfillment fanciful fan-fiction-y greendream. Pay me no heed; we O’Connors are naught but northern bastards, all.”

      Hahahahahaha, Bravo!

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    87. Kargaryen:
      So maybe yeah, in the books she’s not fireproof but in the show we had many scenes that suggest she is fireproof, not just the pyre scene, but also the bath scene (something they mention in the books though), the scene in THOTU and the dragon eggs scene. So I assume at least in the show she is immune to fire.

      This is nothing but pure speculation on my part re: timing… what if they want to remind viewers now about Dany’s fireproof nature in order to visually underline her linkage to Jon? A way to do this would be to show Jon emerging from a funeral pyre or some other Melisandre fire-ritual reborn. This would simplify things for show-watchers. If they go this route they’d want to be absolutely sure everyone gets the parallel they’re drawing between Dany and Jon. Some book-readers might feel they’re dumbing things down for the television audience but I don’t have a problem with making things simpler for the visual medium.

      Following this train of thought, how do we interpret the prophesy with these two competing possible Azor-Ahai(s)? I could see the question being posed… who is the actual savior here, Dany or Jon?

      Edited to add: I should really try to read all the comments before posting. Many of you guys and gals have already made similar points to mine

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    88. Good grief, I had to unsubscribe from this one.
      This fracking bickering is getting on my last nerve today.
      A few of us must have bad days….just sayin..

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    89. Nadia,

      No, I’m sure you are not the only one. It’s getting a bit boring for me aswell, but I’m looking forward to be proven wrong in the next season.

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    90. JCDavis:
      Jared,

      You left out some kind of big skirmish with 400 extras there.Otherwise I think it is a bit fast for the timeline for four episodes, but maybe 5 or 6.I now have altered my own timeline that says that she has to get back to Meereen (two episodes more) and as you say tie things up there.

      I had a thought thather along with her dragons, Tyrion, Daario/Jorah (whichever if one survives) the Unsullied, maybe the Second Sons, but Daario is the only link to them and we haven’t exactly seen them lately and the Dothraki take to the seas by the end of the season.

      There has to be room for other story arcs in Season 6, it can’t be all Daeny and Co.If the show runners told the truth, Season 6 is going to pick up where 5 left off.So next season there has to be some movement/resolve on Jon, Mel, Davos, NW, Wildings, Others/WW??, Sansa, Theon, Ramsay/Bolton crew, Brienne/Pod, Jaime, Bronn, Trystane, Myrcella, Cersie and we also now know, Margaery/Tommen, HS.That is a lot, so Daeny can’t be the only one to get major air time, I think.

      Have you been reading any of the updates on here over the last several months? There’s loads of other activity for the other characters.

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    91. phantomstrife,

      That’s because the show does not do heavy inter-season foreshadowing. Arya is returning to the Riverlands. Chances are her bond with Nymeria will be explored in the season where she gets there (this one or, looking increasingly more likely, the next).

      And I agree with whomever said that the most interesting question is who will be picked by the Authority as the third head of the dragon.

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    92. Mihnea,

      GRRM has often said how he forgets things he has written in previous books, the scope of them is so massive, this is why it’s important to keep notes and cross references when writing. Then there’s the task of cataloging and organizing those notes and materials so they can be readily accessible. When asked about Dany’s continued impervious ability to fire and he stated the pyre was a one time event, he either forgot about that quote in Dances, or is purposely misleading to prevent a potential spoiler for some future event.

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    93. Mihnea,

      Then why has Martin made sure to convey the Starks’ deep bond with the direwolves time and time again? Why did he make them wargs? The show just discarded all of that like it’s nothing and put all the emphasis on dragons. Dragons are not the be all and end all. I wouldn’t be surprised if at least one of them gets killed before it reaches Westeros or soon after and that their contribution to the war will not be this huge swift success like some people think. So what you’re saying is that you agree they’re making Daenerys the Chosen One/Champion, and the efforts of the likes of Jon, Arya, Tyrion etc will pale in the face of Daenerys’ greatness? Now I see you do. Why do you think so? She doesn’t even have all three dragons. Can’t control them all. She barely controls Drogon. Viserion and Rhaegal are going to be even more disconnected from her after having been chained up for so long. What can a single girl on a very young dragon do? She will need all the help she can get. Dragons don’t do so well in unfavourable wheather conditions and WWs can cause huge blizzards. Simple rain storm can down a dragon. A downed dragon is easy to kill.

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    94. dragonbringer,

      Erm, the vision of a girl in grey fleeing to the Wall was not the same as when Mel asks for a vision of AA. Also, Mel had no idea what Arya looked like, whereas she knows what Jon looks like.

      Listen, I personally subscribe to the multiple AA theory, but I feel like the signs are there for Jon.

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    95. Sunfyre,

      Yeah I think if they use fire in Jon’s ressurrection I am almost sure this is gonna happen in the same episode as Dany steps out of the flames in the dothraki tent. Or if not in the same episode, they’re going to make sure the viewers see a lot of similarities between the 2 scenes.

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    96. Jeff O’Connor,

      I think that this is entirely possible, good synopsis! (although I still hold out hope that Jorah will pull off a

      Victarion/Red Priest style healing

      it is a very small hope!) This would mean that the greyscale would need to speed up its progress quite a bit, which could happen. Daario doing a mercy-killing (not to be confused with Mercy-killing) type of thing with Jorah would be something.

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    97. Mihnea,

      I never did …he is as important as dany …they both have same level of importance but to me the prophecy’s are about dany …and there is enough proof for that in the five books
      Mihnea,

      Not really the one who needed stretching was always Jon not dany ….

      Dany was born amidst salt and smoke that is dragon stone ….Mel mentions its a reason why she chose stannis but Jon thinks she must be wrong because stannis was lord of dragon stone not born there …but we do know who was born there and whose birth was well known that she got a title called SToRMBoRN

      When the red star bled she went into the fire and she pulled three dragons from the fire …dragons that were brought because of the sacrifices of her husband and child and mirri …
      Notice how she inverts the tale of nissa nissa ..here wife kills the husband …

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    98. Newbietothegame:
      Good grief,I had to unsubscribe from this one.
      This fracking bickering is getting on my last nerve today.
      A few of us must have bad days….just sayin..

      You and me both. Geez, just state your opinion, no need to do battle with someone else over it regardless of how right one feels. It is something that actually fuels websites for this sort of interaction.

      What I find odd is the person who is calling people out personally as haters, showing their true colors is the one that always wants to play the role of councilor and ask why do people have to be so snarky in posts. Just astounding.

      Sad to say, posts like Wimsey, who has actually written some great posts and others too….the bickering and sniping take over the whole of the thread.

      I don’t care how right someone thinks they are or maybe even are, repeating it over and over again is nauseating. There is so much interesting good news about this new post…we learned a lot. Much to speculate on.

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    99. This is all awesome news. I have no problem with Dany being able to be fire-proof. I think it’s some kind of meditative state or “trance” and combination of magic and Targaryen heritage that attributes to her unburnt-ness. I’m kind of neutral when it comes to Dany, I’m more interested in seeing her falter and not have a super easy time, because that type of thing is more interesting to watch. I love the Dothraki so I’m excited.

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    100. phantomstrife,

      I think they are pretty different. Of course they are both beasts with mythical characteristics but the dragons are like nukes in medieval warfare. Maybe Minhea was talking about the physical importance of a dragon over a direwolf. My two cents.

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    101. phantomstrife,

      Not going to bother. Because I don’t care.

      I simply don’t care about what Martin writes, because until the show is done I’m not going to read the books.
      And yes I do think Martin focusses on absolutly pointless things, Dany’s diarhea and the existance of Quentyn, The Meereen story, Mance’s story amog many other things, have made Martin from one of my favourite writers to just another generic fantasy writers.

      And again. Every thing you said there is your personall theories and hopes. You think those things are important, but you have absolutly no clue if it is true.
      You hope/wish that Dany is not important, or special, but again you have absolutly no clue. Just your hopes/ideas, and now you are angry they may be proven to be false/wrong.

      I’m, ending this disscussion here. I have absolutly 0 interest in talking about the books. I am here to talk the show that I wach, not the books I won’t read.

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    102. Still no word on Aeron Greyjoy casting?? It baffles me, because he was actually spotted, right? And still no closure on the actor or hints at his role. My concern is that the priest that was seen was just a random drowned priest leading the kingsmoot, in which case I will probably slide into a deep depression. I loved that character so much and find him to be essential to the KM-subplot

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    103. Tomigreyjoy,

      My last post here, as I’m leaving shortly.

      But yes that is what I was meaning. The dragons influence the entire world. and may very well be the ones to stop the WW.
      While the DW are important, they are important to the characters (Jon, Arya, Bran), not the outside world.

      That’s why I belive the dragons need and should get more screen-time then the DW’s.

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    104. JCDavis: You and me both.Geez, just state your opinion, no need to do battle with someone else over it regardless of how right one feels.It is something that actually fuels websites for this sort of interaction.

      What I find odd is the person who is calling people out personally as haters, showing their true colors is the one that always wants to play the role of councilor and ask why do people have to be so snarky in posts.Just astounding.

      Sad to say, posts like Wimsey, who has actually written some great posts and others too….the bickering and sniping take over the whole of the thread.

      I don’t care how right someone thinks they are or maybe even are, repeating it over and over again is nauseating.There is so much interesting good news about this new post…we learned a lot.Much to speculate on.

      +2,500………..

      I think there could probably be a post about the position of the colours on a colour wheel, and the same thing would happen. Come in, provoke, pretend to take the high road, rinse, repeat.

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    105. Kargaryen,

      Absolutely. And if they did put both of these supernatural events in one episode (or even intercut it) it would be a massive pivot point for the series. I’m imagining these two scenes in episode four. We see Dany emerging from a burning Dothraki temple. We witness Jon’s resurrection/emerging from fire. Both unburnt. This would draw a clear dividing line: everything after these scenes would feel like we’re hurtling towards the endgame. Could definitely make for a thrilling season 6.

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    106. Daenerys brought dragons back with the help of a magical ritual, but she doesn’t have dragons. She’s bonded to Drogon. A person can only be bonded to one dragon. The moment she did that, the other two were lost to her. She’s the Mother of Dragons with a single dragon now. The other two are free from her influence. They will likely get riders who will bond with them.

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    107. Speaking of AA most of you might know this video from Alt Shift X about who’s AA but if there’s anyone who doesn’t I recommend it. I’d just take Stannis out of the picture cause at this point we know he isn’t.

      And unlike another person said, I think Dany has even more literal parts that link her to being AA than Jon has, though I think the 2 could (might) be.

      http://youtu.be/O3o2LqFZcGUl

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    108. I’m not sure why people are still using the show’s characterization of characters to deduce where the books are heading.

      Show!Tyrion is the whitest shade of white character, and is 10x a better person than even Ned, yet book!Tyrion has been referred to as a Walter White-esque character by the author himself.

      GRRM has flat out said that Dany will be a darker character in the Winds of Winter, and with the prophecy about fAegon being beloved by the smallfolk, Dorne siding against Dany and her allying with the Ironborn, the most detested kingdom in Westeros, it’s pretty obvious she’s being set up as an antagonist to the majority of Westeros. That the show is heading in another direction has no bearing on the books.

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    109. Mihnea,

      This is false. Very false. Direwolves are just as important as dragons in this story. Neither is more important or less important than the other. Neither belongs here anymore, and both have returned due to odd magic that has yet to be explained in the story. They are the mirror of each other and symbolic of two main families Starks and Targaryens. Both families have unusual and magical bonding with each creature that will likely play equal parts in the conclusion of the story.

      The show did not lessen the direwolves because dragons are more important. It’s likely because you can only scale a dog up 50% through CGI before it starts to look like a cartoon. Plus a dragon is all CGI which makes it a lot easier to have it do what you want. They shoot a regular dog for the direwolf in a studio and that’s a real living thing, and sometimes takes can get messed up. There are mitigating factors when adapting the source material that you cannot forget about. It doesn’t mean one is more important or less important than the other simple because the adaptation shows more than the other.

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    110. Mihnea,

      I was not saying she’s unimportant, I was pointing out how you put her on a pedestal at the expense of every other character. Do you want to see that kind of thing in the show? Daenerys on a young dragon swoops in and obliterates the threat easily which others have struggled against, even though up until now she’s had nothing to do with the main plot. Talk about a contrived anti-climax that makes little sense, even in the context of the show.

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    111. Haha, thanks for the kind words (and laughs), those of you who commented on my little thought-stream. I’m glad it generated a bit of discussion!

      Pigeon,

      Aye, you’re right that the greyscale would need to be sped up. I gave that some consideration, ultimately figuring the dramatic needs might outweigh the more practical ones.

      I don’t much want to see Jorah die next year either; I love that guy and a few of my friends love him all the more. And I know there are cool ideas like “Westerosi Patient Zero” and “Red Priestess Healspell” flinging around the net, and that’d be cool too. I just can’t shake the feeling that he’s not long from the show.

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    112. My take on the debates here … and this is only my opinion.

      Danys = heat resistant, not fire-proof. She hasn’t been burnt by fire since the S1 birth of dragons.

      The dragons are TSWMTW.

      There are three AARs. They are the dragon’s three heads. Jon Snow is one, and Danys is another. I don’t know who the third AAR is.

      Danys is the PTWP.

      Jon Snow is the song of Ice and Fire.

      Sansa is the YMBQ, and Jamie is the valonqar.

      I’m probably wrong on most of these.

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    113. The differences between show and book when it comes to Dany’s fire resistance, not to mention all the discussion about it here, really underscore how the magic in the story is supposed to be vague and misunderstood.

      Plenty of “fantasy” magic is more akin to sci-fi; if you are going to delve into the rules and define a system, you’re basically just describing a fictional technology or physical phenomenon (Star Wars was fantasy before midichlorians! Harry Potter is sci-fi! Jesus wasn’t really born on Christmas!). Treating magic as something truly occult and otherworldly, as GRRM does, means there are going to be things that are unexplained.

      Some Targaryens have affinity for fire, others have obsessions. They’ve been noted to be somewhat more tolerant of heat, and yet plenty have been burned to death. Daenerys surviving the pyre is a one-time magical miracle sorta deal, but despite the other magic in play it seems pretty obvious that part of the recipe was her Targaryen heritage. Her clothes burn, so she’s not Hulk pants magical, and yet despite the story dealing with genetic heritage elsewhere, there’s no pseudo-grounded explanation like a “Targaryen gene” giving Dany thick skin or special cells that can absorb heat. So she’ll grab a scalding egg and not get blisters like a boss, but I doubt she’d want to test if she could survive a molten gold noggin.

      Little things like her hair burning in the book and not the show are about what works best for each format, but the relative insignificance of such details speaks to the intended vagueness of her “powers.”

      Likewise for all the prophecy. The books get into it a hell of a lot more, and while the show is definitely reducing the game to Jon or Daenerys for AA/PWWP, I’m pretty sure GRRM/B&W intend for there to be room for debate even after the story is done. It goes with the themes of murky morality and the promise of a bittersweet ending that there’s not going to be a grand coronation where the kingdom bows in adoration to the true savior. Even a private Melisandre “I told you so!” is going to be just her opinion in a story that is so darned interesting because of the different interpretations of imperfect narrators.

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    114. I dont think the common people or anyone will like Dany when she arrives in Westeros. Why they would? She’s the daughter of the Mad King, will arrive with an army of ex-slaves(many people might still say the unsullied are still slaves) an army of barbarians, the dothraki and on top of that three or at least one beast, Drogon.

      But once Winter comes, it’s not like they can not count on her to be helpful. They will need her and of course they’ll be by her side.

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    115. phantomstrife: But the fact remains they have made warging unique to Bran among the Stark kids

      Books and TV/film are very different. In books, it’s ok (or more permissible) to develop things well in advance. On TV, you develop it in the season that it becomes important. Arya’s bond with Nymmeria might become important in Winter: but it was not important in the prior 4 stories. So, showing it would have been poor TV. Similarly, Jon’s weak link with Ghost comes up largely for the fact that he refuses to embrace it: it never has any real bearing on the story. Again, it might be important in Winter: but until it is important, they should not waste TV time on it, or distract the TV audience from the real story with irrelevant details.

      Kargaryen: So in my view both would be AA but I don’t think they will ever confirm “character X or Y is AAR”.

      The bigger question that is going to be huge is: what exactly did AA do all of those years ago? One thing on which I will bet both of my upper canines: the story that gets repeated is at best only ironically true.

      <a href="#comment-456037"rhgto&: oth have returned due to odd magic that has yet to be explained in the story.

      Actually, both show and book make it clear that dire wolves still live north of the wall: it is just very unusual to see them south of the wall. In a way, this was just a big foreshadowing of several events: things from beyond the wall that have not been in Westeros for a long time will be there soon.

      However, there is no implication of magic, save perhaps of the “magic” that is driving everything south: perhaps the wolves, like other things, are being displaced by the White Walkers.

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    116. phantomstrife,

      I dunno. In The Sworn Sword, which takes place during a great drought, it is

      strongly hinted that Egg is unbothered and resistant to the sweltering heat that everybody else is suffering from. I think it can be implied that full-blooded Targs have at least some manner of heat resistance.

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    117. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      There are clues pointing to Jon, but much of clues are there for Daeny. People already presented them here. Jon seems to me like a balance between Ice and Fire more than AAR on his own. But the again he’s connected to that prophecy as well. I know that AAR, PtwP are the one person, but then again PtwP is fitting more to Jon than Daeny. As far as show goes. They put “I promise” there in the scene with Ned and Jon talking about his mother. For some reason. It’s kinda hinting at Lyanna’s last words to Ned. Unless Daeny is Rhaegar’s child. AAR more with Daeny. STMTW is a bit different and that should be Drogon or Daeny with Drogon.

      Clearly those two are involved in those prophecies to some extent in the books or show, so maybe they both are AAR and one is PtwP and other STMTW. PtwP in show seems more fitting to Jon. At least that’s my take on this. We’ll see on how they approach Jon’s resurrection and revival on the show. If it mirrors Daeny walking out of that Dothraki temple and Jon out of fire. Someone said it here. To show parallel and as Wimsey said many times these two are clearly protagonist A and 1=which means equally important. Maybe they truly are both saviours to save the world.

      Mihnea,

      They both are connected and equally important. It’s really interesting, because I believe show made a point to showcase parallel between them in many ways and they might continue with that. George put Jon in those prophecies for some reason. Stannis was the fake AAR so why to make another one? R’hllor is leading Mel to Jon for a reason. They seem to audience as far as I can tell…as two saviours. They’re on that similair path. If Jon’s resurrection will mirror Daeny and Dohraki as we learned=walking out of fire or like surviving pyre in season 1.

      People are arguing that Jon is that and Daeny that. being jealous over this and that one. Both are special and it’s very clear. These kind of strong and special characters will gather hate comments from other fans. It is known. Tbh being saviours might be a double edged sword. That person might end up sacrificing himself or herself. It’s not like a winning a lottery.

      Josh L.,

      YMBQ for me is either Daeny or Sansa. Cersei is obsessed with Margaery and I kinda don’t blame her for it. She seems to fit into this quite nicely, but something tells me it’s not that simple. Cersei underestimated that more beatiful queen. If I had to choose sorry phantom Daeny.

      STMTW in my opinion is Drogon or Daeny with Drogon.

      Three headed dragon and dragonriders. Show didn’t include this so far, but we’ll see. Viseryion and Rhaegal will have to be deal with. Tyrion is close to them so they might went with him as bonding with one of them. When he saw Drogon, he seems to be fascinated by dragon. Like in the books. Maybe Daeny, Jon and Tyrion are those three. But then again Bran will apparently fly which is so intrecate to me. Is he going to warg a dragon or what? Is there going to be a Stone Dragon or Ice one?

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    118. Jeff O’Connor:
      Haha, thanks for the kind words (and laughs), those of you who commented on my little thought-stream. I’m glad it generated a bit of discussion!

      Pigeon,

      Aye, you’re right that the greyscale would need to be sped up. I gave that some consideration, ultimately figuring the dramatic needs might outweigh the more practical ones.

      I don’t much want to see Jorah die next year either; I love that guy and a few of my friends love him all the more. And I know there are cool ideas like “Westerosi Patient Zero” and “Red Priestess Healspell” flinging around the net, and that’d be cool too. I just can’t shake the feeling that he’s not long from the show.

      You, I like. Lol! Yes, Jorah (or Iain Glen, rather) has a vulnerability in spite of his kick-assedness that has me constantly on tenterhooks throughout the seasons that he will be remarkably cut down, leaving me a blithering idiot (oh wait…). We all know the guaranteed pain of having favourites, and we do it anyway.

      I don’t think there’s any reason why time in Season 6 can’t pass faster that previous ones, either. So perhaps the greyscale doesn’t necessarily speed up, perhaps the time that passes does. At any rate, your thought about Daario keeping it from Dany is something that jumps into my mind so clearly that it may as well be from the screen. 🙂

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    119. Kilgore Tully,

      Great post. I think the show may go further in the direction of spelling things out definitively with regard to prophesy than GRRM. But I hope they don’t fall over the edge of the cliff in an effort to answer questions. We’re in a post Lost/BSG era (both shows with dense mythologies and endings that didn’t end well according to GRRM). Leaving things too ambiguous can definitely divide viewers. But I hope D&D follow GRRM’s lead when it comes down to ultimate answers… or the lack thereof.

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    120. I’ve always thought that at some point Drogon would show up in Vaes Dothraki and burn something but if he’s in fact burning that big tent it’s very symbolic. Most of the city might be burned to the ground. If he burns Vaes Dothraki there will be no Dothraki sacred city, leaving them free to go with her. Even the dosh khaleen.

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    121. <a href="mailto:rhgto@gmail.com">rhgto@gmail.com</a>,

      This. The production hang-ups were in huge part responsible for the direwolves’ little screentime, not that they’re insignificant. I don’t understand why they didn’t just make them from scratch like the dragons. I don’t suppose it’s that easier to create a CGI dragon than a wolf. That way they could have made them bigger than they are. The Twilight movies featured huge CGI wolves that weren’t bad looking in comparison to other craptastic special effects those movies had. Of course GOT doesn’t have that big a budget but I’d think they’d have found a solution to this. Their dragon effects look very good for a TV show.

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    122. It just came to my mind Viserys’ words from season one when talking about the dothraki and their behavior while in Vaes Dothraki. “They can’t shed blood in their sacred city”. Now just imagine the damage Drogon will cause lol I’m so excited for this scene. I’m expecting that Dany shows she can control him, otherwise they’d not follow her just because she can’t be burned.

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    123. Kargaryen:
      For me Dany IS fireproof in the show. As for the books… We can take Martin’s words for probably an interviewer, after being asked a thousand of other questions when he said the funeral pyre was an one time event or his own words in ADWD, which of course had a lot of reviews before it was published, that states:

      This is foreshadowing Dany’s downfall.

      Dany THINKS she is fireproof. George has repeatedly said she is not fireproof. Dany will probably be killed by fire cause of her assumptions.

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    124. phantomstrife:
      Daenerys brought dragons back with the help of a magical ritual, but she doesn’t have dragons. She’s bonded to Drogon. A person can only be bonded to one dragon. The moment she did that, the other two were lost to her.She’s the Mother of Dragons with a single dragon now. The other two are free from her influence. They will likely get riders who will bond with them.

      I disagree the other two were lost to her, as evidenced by the fact when she went to visit them in the catacombs, they were obviously pissed, but did not try to harm her. Moreover, when she took the Masters down to the catacombs they did her bidding. So, while she may not be as connected to them as she is to Drogon, they are not entirely lost to her.

      Mihnea: I’m, ending this disscussion here. I have absolutly 0 interest in talking about the books. I am here to talk the show that I wach, not the books I won’t read.

      That’s certainly your prerogative, but please try to keep in mind there are many people here who are interested in talking about the books. Plenty of us enjoy both the books and the show, and enjoy discussing the similarities and the differences.

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    125. If Dany has acquired a trait no other Targaryen has had before her (being fireproof), making it a random power that only she mysteriously has, it’ll come off cheesy and forced. It’ll just turn her into this cheesy superwoman.

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    126. Dany will not ride Rhaegal and Viserion because she alredy has Drogon. So they will probably have each one a rider but I’m not sure I agree with that that she has completely lost the other two. She might still have some influence towards them even if she can’t ride all three. They probably still see her as their mother though a stronger bond between them and their future riders is yet to be created.

      I just hope that horn doesn’t play a big part in the show/books because I find that idea stupid (personal opinion, of course). Not sure I like Bran warging Dragons too. He already has a lot of powers so I hope the magic the dragons have won’t allow them to be warged.

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    127. Nadia,

      I am not excited about the Dany storyline either and it has nothing to do with the character herself, though to be fair she’s not one of my top 5 (but yes top 10, my loyalties lie with the Starks). My less than enthusiastic response to Dany’s storyline is the fact that it is so isolated, that is so NOT in Westeros. Yes, you can claim Jon is also isolated except he is still in Westeros and involved some way or another in what is going on in the realm. It is time for Dany to either fly herself or sail herself to Westeros. She has spent way too long in Essos, if you are going to get your hands dirty , get your hands dirty killing Eurons and Victarions and Freys and some Lions and a Bolton or two, but not another slave master! Dany just go and try to get the Red Keep back from Cersei already, that is the Daenerys fun that I’m looking forward to.

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    128. Kargaryen,

      I agree with you, I don’t think it’s one person that is AA, maybe not even two, but if it is two, then it is Jon AND Dany. Not just one or the other. I kind of like this idea thematically. The whole Dany route would go down the ‘girl power’ line, but I think it would be nice symbolism to have both male and female saving the world. I’m not overly keen on hyper feminism, but rather I believe in equality. So what better way than having ‘the chosen one’ as ‘the chosen ones’, male and female, two halves of the same coin, fire & ice. There have been enough parallels between Jon and Dany to suggest it could be headed this way. Will have to wait and see.

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    129. Mihnea,

      I think most posters know your opinion on the matter. You don’t have to state it in every post. Sorry, but it does seem like every new thread seems to be littered with you arguing with posters who say something that you don’t agree with. I think it’s best that you just ignore them if they upset you, and not reply to them saying that you are going to ignore them, only to forget and continue to reply to them. It’s getting to be annoying.

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    130. darksianna,

      Watch season one again, there are numerous examples of her resistance to heat/ fire, including the very first scene where she wades into a hot tub, Her picking up a roasting dragon egg. I believe the dragon births were the result of the magic, otherwise why wouldn’t she go out and pick up some more eggs ( does it say anywhere these are the last three?)

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    131. This!

      I’ve literally spent an hour reading the comments and instead of discussing the content of the article, 95% of the comments consist of bitching, arguing and name calling. It’s like a damn school yard and it always seems to be the same offenders. Kinda depressing and really frustrating considering there was a huge motherfucking spoiler here.

      JCDavis: You and me both.Geez, just state your opinion, no need to do battle with someone else over it regardless of how right one feels.It is something that actually fuels websites for this sort of interaction.

      What I find odd is the person who is calling people out personally as haters, showing their true colors is the one that always wants to play the role of councilor and ask why do people have to be so snarky in posts.Just astounding.

      Sad to say, posts like Wimsey, who has actually written some great posts and others too….the bickering and sniping take over the whole of the thread.

      I don’t care how right someone thinks they are or maybe even are, repeating it over and over again is nauseating.There is so much interesting good news about this new post…we learned a lot.Much to speculate on.

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    132. Sue the Fury,

      Sue, Thank you, thank you, thank you!! I dont Care if he’s not famous, I’m just thrilled we’re getting D and D’s version of the character, and especially Brian Cogman who I Think Will be writing the kingsmoot and who has said that Damphair is one of his favorite characters. I loved the gloomy Iron born arc in feast and while I enjoyed victarions pov, i feel like the real magic of that of that story stems from Aeron and Euron, equally fascinating and opposing characters. I wonder what his role Will be though, other than leading the KM. Really hope we get to see a drowning 🙂

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    133. This spanish site has some pics of the set in Tabernas, where the filming will take place tomorrow. They said its probably a sequence of the scenes filmed in VD. Or them heading to there. We’ll be certain of what it is when pics get leaked. If Dany’s with that dress from the fighting pits scene, they will be still heading to VD.

      http://http://www.melty.es/juego-de-tronos-temporada-6-alerta-una-avalancha-de-spoilers-sacude-almeria-a163434.html

      As for Jorah fans, the site did say that

      Dany, Daario AND Jorah did meet. So it won’t be just Jorah and Daario spying on her. We know Daario will be with her in later episodes but we don’t know much about Jorah’s future. Wainting on confirmation from another sites though.

      .

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    134. Redstar:
      Tori Targaryen,

      But if RLJ then Jon’s already ice&fire on his own. So it wouldn’t be balanced yin-yang, if they were the two halves of a whole. They’d be 1/3 ice, 2/3 fire.

      More like 1/4 ice, 3/4 fire but who’s counting. 🙂

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    135. If Dany comes out of the fire again as this report suggests, that would mean that this scene would be similar to season 1 episode 10… But Emilia said she won’t be doing nudity again… I wonder how they will shoot that then…

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    136. I prefer a fire-resistant Dany to a fire-proof Dany, but based on this report that she’s going to walk out of another fire unharmed, it sounds more likely she’s fire-proof in the show universe.

      I’m also not super excited about Dany’s story this season, but I’ve found myself immersed in and enjoying stories I didn’t expect to before – such is the power of good writing, and I hope that’s the case here.

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    137. “Edit: A possibility, though it sounds as though the witnesses are unclear on this: Dany may have been in the fire, and come out unscathed, which causes the Dothraki to adore her.”

      We don’t know for sure if she’s coming out of the fire. It hasn’t been confirmed 100%! So much bickering over something that might not even happen. Sheesh.

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    138. Redstar,

      Indeed he is the embodiment of both in bloodlines, if the theory is correct. However, regardless of his heritage, he has always, as a character, been strongly linked with the North, and therefore, ice. I don’t think that’s ever going to change.

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    139. Tori Targaryen,

      If R+L=J is true he absolutely needs to embrace both parts of his heritage to full extent. Makes no sense for him to prefer one over other. Balance is the key word. If Jon is truly who he is…he’s the balance of the powers. At least that’s my theory on this.

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    140. Geralt of Rivia,

      He may embrace both for the war but afterwards? If he survives he may just stay at the Wall (if it doesn’t melt or gets destroyed and if he reaffirms his vows) or he might stay in the North overall. I can’t really see him doing much outside of that.

      As far as Dany and the topic is concerned, I don’t mind if she is either FP or FR because she could get killed another way (If she has to die at some point but I don’t think so). Fire isn’t the only means of death in this world, she might just get stabbed or sick.

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    141. I always thought Dany’s “heat resistance” and the birth of her dragons were connected to the Red God. Indeed, she’s the one who most fits the related prophecies about the bleeding star, being born amidst smoke and salt, etc.

      Of course I also subscribe to the idea that there is more than one “promised one”, the other being Jon, and perhaps one more that we don’t know about just yet if the three heads of the dragon bit is also related.

      Anyway, it sounds like there might be a conflict between Dothraki at some point, perhaps between those who support Dany and those who do not.

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    142. Geralt of Rivia: would like to know if she is going to command all three dragons or not. They cut out that stuff about three headed dragon,

      I am wondering about this a lot. Is the show going to NOT go the route of “the dragon has three heads”? From the beginning, Drogon has been given far more screentime than Vis and Rhae.

      Winter:
      Sue the Fury,

      GRRM said that she wasn’t fireproof, that her being unburnt was a one time deal. A unique magical event.

      Has David and Dan proclaimed anything about her fireproofness? That is much more relevant to the show. Just from watching the show, she does appear to me to be quite heat and fire-resistant. But I do get that some fans will deny this forever. 😉

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    143. Kay,

      Exactly, in the show that’s how she may be because its more visually interesting to see. And if they decide to burn her in this scene (if she’s even involved in this particular one) I think it would be a mistake. People saw her survive the pyre in S1 and if she got burned in this one, they might get confused if they don’t explain it somehow.

      Like I said, if she is to die in the show, we don’t need an ironic death involving fire, she could get stabbed or something. Of course, she may die that way in the later books like some people think/want after she goes ‘mad’ like her father. Which is something they also want.

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    144. Well I will throw out an unpopular opinion. I could give a hoot about Dany and her story line (book and show). I understand its importance, I just find the character entitled and a bit boring. But I love the Dothraki eye-candy. Thanks Nina Gold! 🙂

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    145. kells: I understand its importance, I just find the character entitled and a bit boring.

      This is a feudalist society and most characters are noblemen. They are all, both literally and figuratively, entitled. Dany is not special in that respect, neither for better nor worse.

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    146. Kilgore Tully: Likewise for all the prophecy. The books get into it a hell of a lot more, and while the show is definitely reducing the game to Jon or Daenerys for AA/PWWP, I’m pretty sure GRRM/B&W intend for there to be room for debate even after the story is done. It goes with the themes of murky morality and the promise of a bittersweet ending that there’s not going to be a grand coronation where the kingdom bows in adoration to the true savior. Even a private Melisandre “I told you so!” is going to be just her opinion in a story that is so darned interesting because of the different interpretations of imperfect narrators.

      Your whole post is really well said, especially this part – I agree so, so much. I really hope this is the way the series (both in books and in show) ends, with something not so clean-cut with One Big Winner Who Clearly Triumphs, even though that can be emotionally satisfying (LOTR). Keeping things more ambiguous and bittersweet would be true to GRRM’s art and more deeply resonant, more truthful despite the fantasy setting, IMO.

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    147. Tori Targaryen: I kind of like this idea thematically. The whole Dany route would go down the ‘girl power’ line, but I think it would be nice symbolism to have both male and female saving the world. I’m not overly keen on hyper feminism, but rather I believe in equality. So what better way than having ‘the chosen one’ as ‘the chosen ones’, male and female, two halves of the same coin, fire & ice.

      Can I just say, THANK YOU? I find it quite astonishing how a fraction of book readers absolutely don’t seem to see this theme of equality between the male and female halves in Martin’s work. I find repeatedly on these boards how the female Daenerys will go mad, is evil, entitled, will become the villain, etc., but the male Jon will be all that’s good and holy and snow-white and balanced, etc. I seriously wonder why it is so difficult to see that Martin’s end goal is more balance in the world, in every respect, including sharing of strength, and this fight against WWs. Oh well……

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    148. Thomas Sandstone,

      If he is truly who we think he is..it’s part of him. He will learn to accept it, live with it and will use it for the good. It’s not like yep end of the war…I’m gonna be full Stark and screw Targaryens.

      About his future. If he’s going to survive and this is queastionable. He might die in the end, but let’s say he does survive. With one word duty. His duty is to serve the realms of men and if that means being King in the North, Westeros with or without Dany, to stay at the Wall and repair Night’s Watch, or whatever he needs to be, he’ll do it. Not from his own will but for the good of the people.

      That’s who he is and even he will leave the Wall in the next season. He’s still gonna do that “to serve the realms of men”, it might not be directly from the Wall and some people see this as escape route from NW. It’s not like that. Yes, he’ll go and try to to free North from Bolton…but he’s doing it most of all to prepare, warn and ultimately defend people in Westeros=greater good. He’s still gonna uphold to that mentality to his last day. Maybe I’m wrong and he’ll change after his resurrection, but that would be disappointing.

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    149. Tori Targaryen:
      Kargaryen,

      I agree with you, I don’t think it’s one person that is AA, maybe not even two, but if it is two, then it is Jon AND Dany. Not just one or the other. I kind of like this idea thematically. The whole Dany route would go down the ‘girl power’ line, but I think it would be nice symbolism to have both male and female saving the world. I’m not overly keen on hyper feminism, but rather I believe in equality. So what better way than having ‘the chosen one’ as ‘the chosen ones’, male and female, two halves of the same coin, fire & ice. There have been enough parallels between Jon and Dany to suggest it could be headed this way. Will have to wait and see.

      You might be onto something. That would be great and you might be right about where is this going in terms of them being saviours, heroes and parallels higlighting that. Their stories mirroring each other in the show and books.

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    150. Geralt of Rivia,

      I see where you’re coming from but I can’t see him being King of anything, North or South. He would displace his remaining siblings if he became the first and would almost be useless in the second because really, what does he know about Southron politics?

      Could he learn? Sure and if he felt that his duty was to all of Westeros then he would do it, irrespective of his feelings. But that doesn’t really sit well with me. He is of the North, in every way that counts. The Starks protected the North but his name is the North. I just feel like its where he belongs.

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    151. Mihnea:
      phantomstrife,
      Grasping at straws, I see.

      Or you’re jumping to conclusions. I really don’t care for this debate, but he asked a question and I didn’t see anybody answer. That says a lot really.

      In fact, it’s probably because he is right in that regard. There is no scene in the show (outside the one specifically mentioned to be a one-time-thing) where Dany is burned and either hurt or unhurt. She touches the scorching eggs and has a scalding bath, but as he says, that’s resilience to heat, while the “Dany is Fireproof”-squad is using those scenes as arguments that she would be unhurt by fire. He’s not grasping as straws, he’s looking at what the show presented and the show has not presented Dany as fireproof outside of Drogo’s Pyre.

      And Luka, if you really think heat and fire are the same thing, than you don’t understand what fire is..’

      I also really don’t like people justifying verbally crucifying somebody for having a different opinion by just assuming that they hate the character. Think about that for a moment. What if I say that I don’t like Straight out of Compton, and people crucify me for giving that opinion because I must not like it because I hate black people? That’s one big assumption to make and I saw quite a few here making similar (albeit less socially deprived) assumptions at somebody who in my unbiased opinion was holding up a fair argument.

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    152. Doesn’t reallly look intimidating enough to be a Khal. The show seems to have gone the way of casting a lot of young pretty things lately. Give me some ugly or old bastards. They tend to have a lot more character!
      Struggling to care about Dany and the Dothraki. Seems as though we’re retreading old ground. Will keep my fingers crossed.

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    153. Jared:
      Luka Nieto,
      One of my favorite scenes in Season 1 is when Dany asks him what he prays for, and Jorah answers, sadly and quietly, “Home”. Dany may never love him the way he loves her, and he may never see her established on the Iron Throne, but hopefully she can give him that, at least.

      Damn, I’m getting sad just thinking about this …

      There’s a scene in A Clash of Kings where Jorah tells Dany about Bear Island and his Hightower-wife and Dany basically figures out that Jorah lusts for her as opposed to admire her for who she is, and thinks to herself that she’ll never see him the way that she saw Drogo, but after hearing the love he has for Bear Island in his words, she hopes that if anything, that’s what she’ll be able to give him.

      Kyrion: This is foreshadowing Dany’s downfall.

      Dany THINKS she is fireproof. George has repeatedly said she is not fireproof. Dany will probablybe killed by fire cause of her assumptions.

      Like many Targ’s before her.

      sir butternut:
      darksianna,
      Watch season one again, there are numerous examples of her resistance to heat/ fire, including the very first scene where she wades into a hot tub, Her picking up a roasting dragon egg. I believe the dragon births were the result of the magic, otherwise why wouldn’t she go out and pick up some more eggs ( does it say anywhere these are the last three?)

      But there’s a difference between resistantce to heat and being fireproof. Lets flip the scenario. Say you’re well trained and dropped into very cold water. You can probably do quite well in this scenario, but does that make you immune to freezing? Nope, it doesn’t it means you’re cold resistant. For all we know, the person might be immune to freezing if he or she has a special power (this is a fantasy after all), but unless we see actual proof of that, we can’t state it as such. And the same goes for Dany, we need to see a nonmagical-occurance of Dany not burning to actual flames, before that, we can only state that she’s heat-resistant until proven otherwise.

      Geralt of Rivia:
      Tori Targaryen,

      If R+L=J is true he absolutely needs to embrace both parts of his heritage to full extent. Makes no sense for him to prefer one over other. Balance is the key word. If Jon is truly who he is…he’s the balance of the powers. At least that’s my theory on this.

      I’ve never understood this. You put two extremes together and you expect balance? There’s two strong forces of nature, they conjoin and the expected result is harmony? Personally, I’m starting to lean more towards the product of ice and fire to be a little more chaotic. Harsh like winter, furious like fire. There’s utterly little reasoning for me to believe that after getting betrayed by the NW like he did, Jon will turn out like some Yin Yang, Arthurian, perfectly balanced individual who’s fair and just to all. Sure, he won’t forget what he stood for altogether, but I doubt he’s going to be the Baelor the Balanced people are making it seem like.

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    154. Kay: I find repeatedly on these boards how the female Daenerys will go mad, is evil, entitled, will become the villain, etc., but the male Jon will be all that’s good and holy and snow-white and balanced, etc.

      Sadly, there is always a component of fantasy fandoms (and even scifi fandoms: read some of the reactions by Doctor Who fans to the Master regenerating as a female!) of disaffected males who are intimidated by women and therefore choose to see the worst in them. Nobody would question Aerys’ son or grandson trying to reclaim the throne because of primogeniture. However, his daughter or grandaughter doing the same is “self-entitled.” Either both are, or neither is.

      What GRRM actually has done well (save one book) is write a mix of male and female characters. Neither sex is all exemplary one way or the other.

      But I am quite certain that at least one of the three aspects of the Promised Prince will be, in fact, a Princess.

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    155. TheTouchOfFrost: oesn’t reallly look intimidating enough to be a Khal. The show seems to have gone the way of casting a lot of young pretty things lately. Give me some ugly or old bastards. They tend to have a lot more character!

      Wait until he had some make-up done and is in costume. 😉

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    156. Wimsey: of disaffected males who are intimidated by women and therefore choose to see the worst in them. Nobody would question Aerys’ son or grandson trying to reclaim the throne because of primogeniture. However, his daughter or grandaughter doing the same is “self-entitled.” Either both are, or neither is.

      But what I find truly astonishing is that plenty of women here also seem to fall into this same mindset. It’s as if Martin’s fantasy world is pretty realistic in some ways after all, and reflect the world today. I wonder if fans of this mindset have ever had a female boss or superior in their workplace or not! 😀

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    157. Abyss: Wait until he had some make-up done and is in costume.

      Or, you know, acts.

      Kay: I wonder if fans of this mindset have ever had a female boss or superior in their workplace or not!

      For a lot of SciFi/Fantasy fans, that would be mom yelling into the basement…. 😀

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    158. Kay,

      I’m a woman and I think Dany is self-entitled and it has nothing to do with the fact that she’s a woman. I think Stannis is as self-entitled as her and I very much dislike that about both characters. “I am the blood of the dragon, the throne is mine by right you usurper’s dogs” or “I am the rightful King, true heir to Robert, the throne is mine by right and I’ll suffer no traitors” Ugh to both of them, go and fight for it if you want it so much but don’t expect people to bow to you just cause. Some of the people who don’t particularly like Daenerys that much (she’s not my favorite but I do want a happy ending for her) don’t always dislike her because she’s a woman (with traits that wouldn’t be seen as negative in a man). Daenerys like most characters in the series simply gets tiresome after a while. “I am but a girl,” yes but do you have to play the same card always? But again she’s not the only one. Who did not want to shove Jamie out of a tower after the ten thousand time he thought about “Moonboy for all I know”? And then there was Tyrion whom I had loved for four books and suddenly turned into an insufferable fool with his “Where do whores go.” While I agree that some of the Dany haters may indeed hate her because she’s in fact a woman with too much power, I think it’s unfair to disregard that some people have legitimate problems with the essence of her character. She’s a flawed character and maybe her flaws rub people the wrong way? Can she go crazy like dad and turn evil? Yes, she could but not because she’s a woman but because she shares a lot of DNA with Aerys and she like any human being can get trapped in the mazes of power where right and wrong are not distinguishable from within. After all would it have shocked anyone if Viserys had become the second coming of Aerys? Dany going mad is a legitimate speculation, just like speculating that she’ll end up being Azor Ahai and the PTWP. Martin writes most of his characters gray enough that they could go either way.

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    159. Does anyone honestly think the show will differentiate between Dany being fireproof and fire-resistant? Not at all. They’re not going to go through the trouble of explaining that she’s fire-resistant all the time but only fireproof that one time she hatched dragons.

      In the show, Dany is absolutely fireproof and that’s the simplest breakdown the show will ever give.

      But one difference the show HAS pointed out is that between a regular ‘ol Targaryen and a true dragon. Dany’s the last dragon just like her brother Rhaegar was before her. Being a truborn Targaryen does not mean you’re a dragon, they already showed this distinction in season 1 with Viserys.

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    160. This is all great and all, but I really want Dany in Westeros ASAP.

      Dany swooping in with her Unsullied and Dothraki horde along with her dragons killing all the WW in one fell swoop and claiming victory and the Iron Throne would be anti-climactic and frankly, not very good storytelling.

      I would much prefer Dany reach Westeros and get a rude awakening rather than coming in as a conquering savior. And no, I don’t hate Dany. I just want her to be more than just the savior of the world.

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    161. Shadow Shifter,

      Don’t you think Dany’s troubles in Mereen have been enough of a rude awakening? Isn’t that the whole point of Mereen? Dany learning to lead, learning how to use her strengths. I don’t expect her to reach Westeros and have another hard time leading, it would pretty much defeat the purpose of Mereen and be a gigantic waste of time on GRRM’s part.

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    162. El-Bobby,

      But Meeren and Westeros are very different from each other. If she goes to Westeros thinking she’s going to liberate them by breaking the wheel would just be naive. She might still think her family is blameless and that the Starks, Lannisters and Martells are the bad guys. I agree her dragons will be a game changer but I’m weary with all the assumptions that she’ll come in as a conquering savior much like Aegon did and just win against the WW outright because man, she has dragons. I don’t think it’ll be as easy as that. But the show does make it sound like it’s easy as her riding on Drogon’s back and obliterating everyone on sight.

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    163. Shadow Shifter,

      Dany knows her family is not blameless, she knows what her father was and what he did. She tells Tyrion all that. She also included her own family in her speech. And I don’t think anyone is expecting her to ride in on Drogon and save the day by herself. There’s still two dragons who needs riders, and it’s obviously not going to be Dany’s forces versus The Others. In terms of Dany struggling politically though, we’re already seeing that in Mereen. We don’t need to see it again in Westeros, no matter how different the system.

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    164. El-Bobby: Does anyone honestly think the show will differentiate between Dany being fireproof and fire-resistant? Not at all. They’re not going to go through the trouble of explaining that she’s fire-resistant all the time but only fireproof that one time she hatched dragons.

      Exactly. I don’t get why people don’t get that. Regardless of the minutia of what has been presented, the narrative purpose of those early heat-resistance scenes are to foreshadow her magical fireproof moment. It’s all the same thing, narratively speaking. This is not science fiction, or a role playing game. We aren’t going to ever get into the specifics of Dany’s abilities. So, when Dany emerges out of the burning temple, no show-watcher will be surprised. It will only be a few people among us who are surprised; the ones who are, sadly, greatly confused about the way Martin and D&D tell their stories.

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    165. El-Bobby,

      We won’t see it because it won’t be the same. And I agree, with Tyrion there Dany will realize that RR isn’t at all black and white as she was led to believe. Although I have to say that there are a lot of show watchers who want Dany to be the triumphant savior that will save Westeros from the White Walkers. I think because the show has pretty much hammered this from the get go, so it’s expected I guess. I personally don’t want that because it’d anti-climactic. That’s my point.

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    166. El-Bobby:
      Shadow Shifter,

      And I don’t think anyone is expecting her to ride in on Drogon and save the day by herself. There’s still two dragons who needs riders, and it’s obviously not going to be Dany’s forces versus The Others.

      Some people do. I don’t think that wecan be sure about other two riders. She might comman all of them an they omitted three headed dragon prophecy unlike others. Might not be that relevant or they will introduce later.

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    167. So, I guess they’re going on with the Targaryens being immune to fire in the show :). How will they explain Jon’s burnt hand? will they just ignore it?

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    168. Shadow Shifter,

      But is anyone expecting it to be Dany alone? Most people I speak to think Dany will join with Jon and his army of Northmen and Wildlings to kill The Others. I don’t see that as anti-climactic, that’s just where the story is taking us. Did you want Dany to fail and die in the attempt to help against The Others, just for the sake of drama?

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    169. vlad,

      It depends if it has something to do with AAR, being The Last Dragon or Targaryen. Third option is to me unlikely since Viserys was killed by molten gold and he was Targaryen and bunch of them were killed by fire in the books. AAR maybe but interesting option is Dany being The Last Dragon…that would mean she’s a unique Targaryen and maybe it has nothing to do with AAR. That would ease the way for Jon being AAR two and we have two saviours. I’m just thinking out loud.

      I think the most logical way to do it would be magic involved. Something unique in a way. Like R’hllor and Old Gods involved…since he might be combination of both. he will not be immunie to fire, but will be able to survive his reborn ritual or whatever we call that.

      El-Bobby,

      Death in the fight against White Walkers is possible for Jon and Dany. I would say more with Jon.

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    170. El-Bobby,

      Rhaegar was a true born Targaryen, The Last Dragon, but he still wasn’t fireproof. His body was cremated. They’re making this unique to Daenerys. Which makes little sense, even if they’re making her AAR reborn. Many Targaryens had dragons, but none of them were immune to fire.

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    171. After creating thousands of characters, with a fair amount of them at the centre of the story, it’d be ridiculous for Martin to put the endgame on one character’s shoulders. This is not anime and Daenerys is not Sailor Moon. Hopefully the show won’t go that way.

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    172. phantomstrife,

      That is the definition of unique, something that only one character has.

      You are just babling now. Of course Aegon didn’t had it or any other Targ, because Dany is unique in this. It is not related to Dany having Dragons, or her being a Targaryan, it is something unique too her alone.

      If anyone would have the same trait, it would no longer be unique.

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    173. phantomstrife,

      Rhaegar was dead when he was cremated, obviously, so why would he be fireproof at that point?

      I don’t think anyone is making the claim that Dany’s body will forever be fireproof even after death, just as long as she’s alive. On the show at least, that’s the easy assumption.

      As far as the books, GRRM has said that it was Dany herself who created the magic that hatched the dragons and made herself fireproof. Not MMD or not some special fire resistant cells in her body, but actual magic that Dany created. If she had been dead at that point, and placed in the pyre, she most certainly would have burned, as she was not alive to create the magic.

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    174. El-Bobby,

      Well, the fact is her story arc in the TV show is being built up as the savior of Westeros from the WW. And the perception seem to differ from those who watch the show and read the books and those who watches only the show. Most show watchers do have the assumption that she’s going to swoop in and save the day. This became evident to me after Hardhome in fact when we saw the WW in action. Most of my friends who didn’t read the books turned to me and said, “Only Khaleesi can save them now.”

      But it’s not that simple. Not saying book readers are special snowflakes because we realized this. It’s just that that’s the conclusion they came to based on what they see on the show.

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    175. El-Bobby,

      No. I think Dany will succeed and she might be queen in the end so no, I don’t want her to fail. But contrary to popular opinion, while dragons may be a game changer, they’re hardly unbeatable. Then there’s also the fact that Dany don’t have complete control over Drogon yet. And what about the other two dragons? Also, a lot of people seem to forget that it’s winter. When Aegon conquered Westeros, it wasn’t in the throes of winter then. And his dragons were decidedly bigger and under his control. All I’m saying is she’s going to face opposition when she lands.

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    176. Shadow Shifter,

      I agree with this. Tough I don’t see it as something bad, but simply a difference in mediums.

      There are many theories on how the WW will be deafeted in the books. Some involve little to no fighting. This is coming from the fact that we barely saw the WW, just a bit in ASOS truly. So we see them as quite slow, making little progress. They are a threat, but it is quite simply to down-play them in the books in my opinion.

      While in the show, more so in HH, it hits you in the face like a brick. You realize that well tought out plans are meaningless, when you see hundreds of wight jumping from a cliff too get you. You start thinking just how futile the entire ”political” story is in the show, when you see the dead come back to life.

      So you start thinking, what could stop them? The answer is almost always: dragons.
      Even Valyrian swords aren’t really the answer here. Sure you can kill a WW with them. But they hardly help when you face thousands uppon thousands of dead wights.

      So I think it is preaty rezonable to think that Dany is the only one who can trully fight them. It is simply the differance beatween books and TV shows/movies.
      Showing just how unstopable the WW are, has a much bigger impact then just saying, they are unstopable.

      Also just to be clear. I do think Dany will face quite the challanges in Westeros, but I simply don’t think it will be political ones. Like you said, Dany trying to gain control of the other dragons could very well be one of them.

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    177. Luka Nieto,

      Should that happen (and I think it will) then it would be a perfect version of the

      “to go forward you must go back”-prophecy from the books. The first time Dany stepped into the fire and survived with her dragons brought her from Khaleesi closer to a accepted Targaryen queen, which is what she wants to be. This time she’ll go back to Khaleesi.

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    178. Mihnea,

      If we go by the books, we do know that there’s a way to defeat the Others even without the dragons. In the books, the first long night when the Last Hero who went and find the CoTF who told them how to defeat the Others. This is how we know that dragonglass could kill the Others. And they were successful in driving out the Others to the Land of Always Winter and erected the wall. Dany is prophesied as AAR who will defeat the Others, yes, but we know how prophecy works in this universe. It’s not always a sure thing. Fact is Dany cannot win the war with the Others without the the cooperation of the North, most specifically the Starks. She can’t just come in and take over because she has dragons. My guess is it will take the combined efforts of Jon, Dany, Bran and the rest of realm to defeat their enemy. Not just Dany.

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    179. Shadow Shifter,

      She can’t just come in and take over because she has dragons. My guess is it will take the combined efforts of Jon, Dany, Bran and the rest of realm to defeat their enemy. Not just Dany.

      And I completly agree with you here, that most likely this is how it will unfold.
      What I was trying to say, is you can’t be really blame people if first thing that comes to their minds is Dany/dragons.

      Also I kinda disagree, with the Last Hero/COTF, that was so long ago, that many, many important facts could be forgoten or just plain wrong, from coutless times it was re-told. Also I would not compare the current situation with what was then. The entire Realm is completly destroied, and the COTF are no longer what they where.

      Also yes dragonglass/valyrian steal will be usefull in the fight, but I highly doubt it is the key to victory.

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    180. Shadow Shifter,

      Did anyone say it will be just dany ….
      Because I never seen anyone say like that …I have seen people who say that about Jon ..

      Thats the problem with this fandom just because dany fulfills the prophecy doesn’t make her a lone hero and steals the spotlight from other characters …everyone will have their role to play ..

      We really didnt know what happened with previous long night …
      But I keep wondering why people doubt that dragons won’t be much use against these when dragon glass and dragons steel work against the others think what an actual dragon will be able to do ..

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    181. Shadow Shifter,

      Did anyone say it will be just dany ….
      Because I never seen anyone say like that …I have seen people who say that about Jon ..

      Thats the problem with this fandom just because dany fulfills the prophecy doesn’t make her a lone hero and steals the spotlight from other characters …everyone will have their role to play ..

      We really didnt know what happened with previous long night …
      But I keep wondering why people doubt that dragons won’t be much use against these WW and others .. when dragon glass and dragons steel work against the others think what an actual dragon will be able to do ..

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    182. I’m kinda hoping that ice dragons are a thing and that the Others have one, just to level the playing field a bit. Or perhaps a wight dragon if that’s possible, even one of Dany’s dragons getting killed then raised as a wight dragon. Now that would be a trip.

      Regardless, I don’t want the Others to be defeated by a few dragons, some Valyrian steel and dragonglass, and wildfire (which I suspect might also come into play towards the end). They hopefully have more tricks up their sleeves beyond just raising the dead.

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    183. Mihnea,

      Hopefully, it won’t. I really like both Dany and the Stark children’s stories and Tyrion so far. One thing I’ve been thinking about that might or might not happen on the show but might happen in the books is other houses wanting to have Dany’s dragons for themselves, not to fight the Others but to conquer the throne. That would add to the complication because you’d have an out of control dragon and the Others. And if one dragon gets captured by the Others, who know what will happen.

        Quote  Reply

    184. Mihnea,

      Also I kinda disagree, with the Last Hero/COTF, that was so long ago, that many, many important facts could be forgoten or just plain wrong, from coutless times it was re-told. Also I would not compare the current situation with what was then. The entire Realm is completly destroied, and the COTF are no longer what they where.

      Yes, that’s true which is why the realm don’t care about the Wall anymore. They don’t think the threat is real. But you have to remember, we did meet the CoTF in season 4. We know Bran is seeing things under that weirwood tree. The answer can’t come only from the Red God. The AA legend isn’t Westerosi, it’s Asshai. For Westeros, the one who defeated the Great Other wasn’t named Azor Ahai.

      As for the CoTF, they still possess magic. They’ve been driven away but I don’t they’re less powerful. We do know for certain that the NW has prior knowledge about how to defeat the Others. Hopefully, Sam finds some more answers when he reaches the Citadel.

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    185. Shadow Shifter,

      See, in my opinion adding that story, would be just another Meereen, or Brienne’s story in AFFC. Plot for the sake of plot alone. Same with world-building.
      I would much more want them to stick to the main-story and not bother with these side-stories.

      After all we have something similar already happening. Euron!
      Having some random lord wanting the dragon would be quitet boring. Especially when we alrady had this plot/story, where someone just tries to ”take” a dragon. Quentyn. So just adding another one, would make me quite sad as it would look like nothing was learned from AFFC/ADWD.

      See this is a classic differance, one that exists since AFFC. Some people like the faster stories of the first 3 books, who focused on important events of a few main-characters, I’m one of those. And some people like a story to do more world-building, and more characters and side-stories for the main characters.

      Wich one is good? Both and none.
      In the end it is simply a matter of personal taste.

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    186. dragonbringer,

      I think this is mostly for people who only watch the show see Dany as being the ultimate savior of all. They know that there isn’t enough Valyrian steel to go around. Dragonglass has to mined so they pretty much think Jon and the rest of NW or whoever fights with them is toast. It’s only natural for them to think that Dany is the ultimate end game because she has dragons. With the show’s emphasis on her being fireproof would even fuel the idea more, I think.

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    187. Shadow Shifter,

      You see, also a diferrance in seeing things here.

      You see them making Dany ”special/chosen one” as a mistake that there should be more importance put on other characters.

      I see this as a clear messages/hints, whatever you want to call it, that in the end Dany will truly be a very, very important part in the story.
      Also Jon of course, they really started to drop those R+L=J hints last season, Mell saying there is power in him,…etc.
      The others are all important characters of course, but their abilities/ways they can truly help is limited. Tyrion can be the best Hand of the King ever in history, but I see little he could do in the fight against the WW.

      Same with Sam, of course he could find something in the citadel to help, but in the end that information will be used by other people in the battle itself.

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    188. Mihnea,

      It’s a mistake from a storytelling perspective in light of what the books meant. This is of course just my opinion, for what it’s worth, but it would diminish the story if in the end there’s just only one mighty savior to save them all. After following so many characters, and storylines, being invested in a lot of the characters, making one character above everyone else would just be anti-climactic for me. So Tyrion can’t fight…uh, did you forget Blackwater? That was Tyrion’s handiwork. Jon is practically the only character who knows about the threat of the Others and cares about the people of Westeros right now and his own men just stabbed him. Bran is the only link to whatever magic that could defeat the Others. Sam could very well discover a way to kill wights even without the dragons. My point is, these characters aren’t there just to serve Dany’s storyline. They have their own storyline. What irks me — and this is true for SOME of Dany and Jon’s fans — is the idea that every other character in the show are just there to serve either Dany or Jon’s storyline. Bran, Arya, Tryrion, even Theon and Jaime all have destinies to fulfill and they’ll be important to the end game, too.

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    189. Shadow Shifter: it would diminish the story if in the end there’s just only one mighty savior to save them all.

      Agreed. I’m not sure that’s what Mihnea meant, to be fair to him, but I agree with you; I don’t think this story will end with a savior (or two) saving the day.

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    190. Shadow Shifter,

      And why is that wrong of course she is the end game player and she is as important as Jon ..I mean this is a story right and only protagonist will play the important roles right and get lots of focus and popularity right

      Who knows the whole point of dany being fireproof is that she is going to sacrifice herself and her dragons by riding them to heart of winter and crash those WW

      Of course the NW is toast …that’s what we learn at the end of Hardhome episode ..

      They need to get a help from somewhere and that help is going to come from dany who is one of the protagonist of the series

      She is getting popularity because she is one of the main characters hence she is getting the focus

      Its always been obvious that dany and dragons are going to help fight WW even in the books but due to the delay in the release of the books people start to over analyze everything and dismiss something as Too obvious and so it can’t happen …

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    191. Shadow Shifter,

      I never said Dany will be the only one to do everything alone. I did not say that at all.
      That is why I also included Jon, who i think will be most likely the one too use the information Sam finds in the citadel.

      I know Tyrion fight. But lets just say that him fighting against wights seams to me just as bad as Dany saving everyone alone, too you. Him taking a political role here looks more realistical, to convince the lords of Westeros to untite, and of course advise Dany.

      I will admit, I forgot about Bran. I have no idea what he will do to help against the WW, so I won’t talk here.

      Jaime/Theon I disagree, Jaime the most. I for one would be supized if he survives to see the end game. Theon sure, with a navy most likely.

      Also to me this is a bit irationale. Having Dragons, the perfect weapon against the WW, or at least better then anything else, and be so against using them. To me this doesn’t make sense. Why did the Dragons return right now, when the WW also returned after thousands of years. To me that answer is clear. To bring back the Dragons, and not use them against the biggest threat imaginable would be simply bad all around.

      And you also confuse what I say, I never said Dany alone will save the world. There will be multiple characters who will most likely help. Jon, Bran, Sam with whatever he finds in the citadel, we also have to remanber that this are only theories we have no clue if Sam find anything at all. But I simply belive Dany, Jon most likely too, will be the main actors once the WW start moving south. You seam to think that this takes away fro other characters, or that it makes them mare side-kicks, here I simply disagree, I do not see it that way.

      The problem I find here, is people wanting some more misteryous, complicated way, because the Dragons are just so obvious. Well I for one think that the Dragons will definatly be the decisive factor in the war. Is it obvious, a bit. But that isn’t a bad thing in itself. Sometimes the most clear answer is the simplest/obvious solution. Is this bad? Every one has to decide for himself here.

      1 thing I’m positive, and I suspect you will agree with me here, is that one way or another, there will be many angry fans when this all ends. 🙂

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    192. dragonbringer:

      Its always been obvious that dany and dragons are going to help fight WW even in the books but due to the delay in the release of the books people start to over analyze everything and dismiss something as Too obvious and so it can’t happen …

      I completly share this belief. 100%!

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    193. I will just say this what stannis said …

      Even Azor Ahai didnt fight his war alone …he needs all the help he can get as much as others need his help …

      So dany being AAR is not going to diminish any other character role they get to play …

      If all this theories about Jon waking from fire comes true …is wonder how many will shout how it diminishes what dany did in the funeral pyre ..when it was supposed to be one time event ..
      I guess there won’t be this much outcry

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    194. phantomstrife:
      After creating thousands of characters, with a fair amount of them at the centre of the story, it’d be ridiculous for Martin to put the endgame on one character’s shoulders. This is not anime and Daenerys is not Sailor Moon. Hopefully the show won’t go that way.

      I need a fanfic of this.

      As for the three dragons’ head thing, a huge part of me want they get killed in one of “Martin’s plot twist tm” and the dragons joined forces with the WW and the lesser pawns/common people have to clean up the mess… That would be awesome, since that three characters are given such amount of awesomeness.

      If the idea is to deconstruct the genre, it would be interesting if some random peasant save the day (some “real” random peasant, not “that” random peasant orphan with a special scar caretaked by peasants who happened to be the last of his kind).

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    195. I’m sorry but If the end of this serise is that Dany is Azor Ahi + The Prince who was promised + The Stallion Who Mounts the World + The younger and more beautiful Queen + The Queen of The Iron Throne + Fireproof and the Savior who save the World from the White Walkers , then I’m sorry this will be ridiculous and TOO much to only one character to have , without mention the long list she already have aka Mother of Dragons, The Breaker of Chins , Queen of Mereen and Khaleesi of The Dothoraki Sea and all that , seriously what the wrong with Dany and the long names ?!!!!!

        Quote  Reply

    196. dragonbringer,

      It won’t because there will be two of them now. But I highly doubt Jon will be resurrected ala Dany. Dany being the last dragon has pretty much been established already. No need for Jon to be Dany 2.0. Their arcs do parallel on the show and in the books but Jon is of the North.

        Quote  Reply

    197. dragonbringer,

      And why is that wrong of course she is the end game player and she is as important as Jon ..I mean this is a story right and only protagonist will play the important roles right and get lots of focus and popularity right

      Nope. This is Game of Thrones. If you think there will only be one hero savior to win everything in the end, then you haven’t been paying attention. Most likely, some of these characters we pegged as heroes will die before even reaching the end.

        Quote  Reply

    198. Danny:
      Kay,

      I’m a woman and I think Dany is self-entitled and it has nothing to do with the fact that she’s a woman.I think Stannis is as self-entitled as her and I very much dislike that about both characters.“I am the blood of the dragon, the throne is mine by right you usurper’s dogs” or “I am the rightful King, true heir to Robert, the throne is mine by right and I’ll suffer no traitors”Ugh to both of them, go and fight for it if you want it so much but don’t expect people to bow to you just cause.Some of the people who don’t particularly like Daenerys that much (she’s not my favorite but I do want a happy ending for her) don’t always dislike her because she’s a woman (with traits that wouldn’t be seen as negative in a man). Daenerys like most characters in the series simply gets tiresome after a while.“I am but a girl,” yes but do you have to play the same card always?But again she’s not the only one.Who did not want to shove Jamie out of a tower after the ten thousand time he thought about “Moonboy for all I know”? And then there was Tyrion whom I had loved for four books and suddenly turned into an insufferable fool with his “Where do whores go.”While Iagree that some of the Dany haters may indeed hate her because she’s in fact a woman with too much power, I think it’s unfair to disregard that some people have legitimate problems with the essence of her character.She’s a flawed character and maybe her flaws rub people the wrong way? Can she go crazy like dad and turn evil? Yes, she could but not because she’s a woman but because she shares a lot of DNA with Aerys and she like any human being can get trapped in the mazes of power where right and wrong are not distinguishable from within. After all would it have shocked anyone if Viserys had become the second coming of Aerys?Dany going mad is a legitimate speculation, just like speculating that she’ll end up being Azor Ahai and the PTWP.Martin writes most of his characters gray enough that they could go either way.

      Had to quote this in it’s entirety because fuck yes. I love you.
      And I add myself to the camp that Dany will go mad. No, not because she is a woman and “how dare she have power?!” but because I think it makes for a powerful end game for the Targ line. Unlike the Mad King, Dany isn’t going to allow the madness to rule her. Yeah, I find the character pretty boring but she does have compassion. She’ll know what’s happening and sacrifice herself for some great cause (maybe against the WW?).
      I don’t expect Jon to make it out of the series (books or show) alive, either. Actually, the only faces I expect to see at the end (of the originals) is Arya, Rickon, Samwell and possibly Tyrion, Sansa and Varys. Theon could surprise me, too.

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    199. Abyss,

      We shall see but he’s no Jason Momoa. I would have gone for Manu Bennett.

      Tyrion Pimpslap,

      I guess but I think it’s stagnates Dany’s story even more. I and I think the majority of other readers/viewers want her in Westeros already. I’ve seen her interacting with Dothraki culture before, don’t need to again!

        Quote  Reply

    200. Could Staz Nair be our

      Quentyn Martell?
      He does kinda look like Toby Sebastian who plays Trystane Martell, and i thought it was Toby when i saw the picture.

        Quote  Reply

    201. Euron,

      I think it’s safe to say he is cut.(wich makes me very happy.) There would have been some mention this season by Doran or Aero. This one I would say is a very safe bet.

        Quote  Reply

    202. TheTouchOfFrost,

      She’s not interacting with the Dothraki in the same way. Before she only had a few followers, and now she will the leader of thousands. With an army large enough that she can sail to Westeros.

        Quote  Reply

    203. El-Bobby,

      She’s already threatened that before. I doubt one Dothraki will set foot in Westeros before it’s all said and done. Whatever she’s doing there it’s not holding my interest. She needs to get to Westros pronto for the end game.

        Quote  Reply

    204. K Noelle: I’m more interested in seeing her falter and not have a super easy time, because that type of thing is more interesting to watch.

      Agreed 100%. Having all the khalasars bow down to Dany when she escapes the fire the way normal people sometimes escape a fire – by pure luck, not happening to be standing in the spot where the roof caves in etc. – would present so much more interesting opportunities for her character development than having her escape simply because she is Supergirl. Besides, perhaps, a little humility (which I for one would welcome), she would be also learning the lesson that Melisandre shares with Selyse when she’s taking a bath: that at least half of ‘magic’ is smoke and mirrors and misdirection, but that the most important thing is the effect on your audience. It also would tie back to Varys’ parable about the king, high septon and general each promising the same sellsword a different reward to kill the others. His conclusion was that power lies where power is PERCEIVED to lie. It’s a crucial lesson for politicians and would-be rulers to learn.

        Quote  Reply

    205. Luka Nieto: This is a feudalist society and most characters are noblemen. They are all, both literally and figuratively, entitled. Dany is not special in that respect, neither for better nor worse.

      Different sense of the word ‘entitled,’ I think. There are two characters, in the show especially, who stand out as having the most ‘entitled’ attitudes (after the death of Viserys at any rate), and those two are Dany and Stannis. And that’s precisely the quality that turned me off to both characters. I’m sure I’m not the only one prone to dislike people who act that way.

        Quote  Reply

    206. TheTouchOfFrost: I doubt one Dothraki will set foot in Westeros before it’s all said and done.

      Well, maybe one or two may get to Westeros with Dany. But I’m with you, the Dothraki will remain in comfy warm Essos. I think they may escort her back to smoldering Meereen or opportunistic Volantis. She may not even choose an escort. Air Force D is my preference. Leave the Momoan horsemen of the apocalypse in the Sea.

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    207. Luka Nieto: when Dany emerges out of the burning temple, no show-watcher will be surprised. It will only be a few people among us who are surprised; the ones who are, sadly, greatly confused about the way Martin and D&D tell their stories.

      The problem is not that it will be a surprise, but that it will be depressingly predictable.

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    208. Rygritte: One didn’t even make it to Astapor in the show.

      Really? I thought I saw a few heaving in the corner of her ship (Vhagar?) while D, R, and V were fishing.

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    209. Firannion,

      I don’t think all of the Dothraki will bend their knees so readily (and perhaps not at all). The article mentions a battle of some kind is being filmed, and we know that fighting inside Vaes Dothrak (assuming this is where said battle is taking place) is forbidden… so it begs the question of what exactly the Dothraki might be fighting over. It must be pretty serious if they’re willing to break their sacred traditions and come to blows within their own city.

      My guess is that the idea of a female khal, regardless of her strength and capability, doesn’t go over so swimmingly with some of the other khals. It’s a suitably controversial and divisive concept… you might even say a revolutionary one, considering how harshly patriarchal Dothraki culture is.

      That’s more or less just a wild guess though. It could be that the Dothraki will see her emerge from a fire and just blindly declare for her without question… but I hope not.

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    210. Hodor’s Bastard,

      Which makes me wonder as to the purpose of showing Dany winning over the Khalasar and them bowing to her if the spoilers were to be believed, and just leaving them in Essos. Unless D&D just wants to hammer home Dany’s specialness. I’d rather that they go with her and see how that will be perceived by Westeros once they land.

        Quote  Reply

    211. Really I just can’t get this ..

      Let me try to this under stand this …

      People want dany to falter and not have a easy way …and when she does have hard time in meereen people will start calling how boring her arc is or how stupid she is ..

      Ok people dont want dany to meet dothraki because they somehow read the TWOW and knew taht no dothraki will go to westeros …but when in even GRRm early letter he mentions how dany unites the dothraki and lead them to westeros ..
      Its like saying that jon should leave the wildlings and start moving south so can prepare the armies to fight WW …I know the only difference is they are in north ..thats it

      Unless someone knew the story don’t state anything as a fact ..

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    212. It doesn’t take too much for anyone to understand that dany doesn’t have any real army till now and uniting dothraki is her only way to get an army .

      Not to forget the prophecy …the TSWMW will lead the khalasar to the end of the world as in Sunset kingdom or lands of always winter

        Quote  Reply

    213. dragonbringer,

      Dany is one of the good guys in the series. Of course, we all want her to win. I think most people object to is the whole “I have dragons, therefore I will succeed in taking the IT and annihilate all the enemies” arc that people like me aren’t too crazy about. Because it suggests, however subtly that the people in Westeros will just roll over and hand her everything. There’s a possibility that Dany will face opposition when she comes to Westeros. First of all, Tyrion is a wanted man. Last time I checked the Lannisters still has control of KL. So yeah, the reality is, Dany in Westeros might not go over well with the Lannisters and the Tyrells, etc. It’s not about giving Dany a hard time. It’s about acknowledging that part of her arc will be her facing opposition in Westeros.

      As for the prophecy, yes, Dany has that on her side but we know how prophecy works in this world. It doesn’t mean she won’t face opposition. So please don’t make it like I’m saying this because I want Dany to suffer because I agree with you about her destiny being AAR, TPTWP, TSTMTW, Mother of Dragons, Slayer of Lies, the Unburnt, The Last Dragon.

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    214. Shadow Shifter,

      Did I say that she won’t have any opposition in westeros ..or did i say she will have easy time in westeros ..
      I don’t think I did …

      For me when she reaches near the Kl after the war it will be burned down …keeping her further away from red door which she will never find

      Having dragons alone doesn’t make her invincible.. She has to achieve lot to make her dream come true and it will not be easy ..
      For all this she wants an bigger army which is where. Dothraki comes from

      You guys are assuming she won’t have any opposition which you don’t know

      All I said is what more you guys want her to do …she has spent a whole book trying to correct her mistakes and falter and facing opposition…and look how that plot is considered as boring and thrashing her plot ..

      she is going to have an opposition there are like you said not there is euron who is foreshadowed as a threat to dany ..and he is been cast ..and there is cersei and lannister .

      I don’t like dany because she has dragons ..but because she is a good person ..if she goes against euron or cersei who will you support

      I never even said she will win it all …she will die in the war of dawn for me …..

      Looks like someguys will always decide to thrash dany because they dislike …

        Quote  Reply

    215. dragonbringer,

      Did I say that she won’t have any opposition in westeros ..or did i say she will have easy time in westeros ..
      I don’t think I did …

      Frankly, it came off that way since you asked why people want Dany so much fail. As I explained, no one wants her to fail. Will she falter? She will just like many other characters in this series. To say that she won’t fail anymore because she already failed in Mereen is a misrepresentation of her story arc.

      You guys are assuming she won’t have any opposition which you don’t know

      I’ve been saying she will have opposition since the very beginning. I do get why some posters would think she’s going to swoop in and win the day, which I personally don’t believe will happen.

      I’m a bit weary with the accusation that those of us who question Dany’s chances of succeeding in Westeros and fighting with the Others are Dany haters. Having reservations about the whole “Dany is the only hope of Westeros” narrative doesn’t equate being a Dany hater.

      Regardless of my feelings, there’s really nothing I can do if D&D chose to go this direction in the show. I personally wouldn’t like it. But that is my personal feelings on the matter. I have my reasons.

      For what it’s worth, not everyone is going to happy with everything.

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    216. Hodor’s Bastard,

      You’d like to think she’d have learnt from Mereen (that quagmire has to have some purpose) that invading somewhere and imposing a completely different culture (as an army of Dothraki would no doubt bring along with it) isn’t the best idea. Tyrion would surely point out that she needs to make alliances in Westeros and not bring in an invading foreign army. Her best bets are the Dornish and the North but with Dorne looking like going with YG and the North in the midst of a civil war her options narrow. Perhaps the Vale?

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    217. dragonbringer: Ok people dont want dany to meet dothraki because they somehow read the TWOW and knew taht no dothraki will go to westeros …but when in even GRRm early letter he mentions how dany unites the dothraki and lead them to westeros

      GRRM also stated that Sansa would have lots of Joffrey’s babies in that letter…

      Dany’s story is a daunting one: she is a product of greatness and insanity, but she has grown up an orphan, her family history is revered and reviled, her ancestors land has been destroyed, she is constantly fleeing from assassins, and she only had her proud brother (and maybe Illyrio) to keep her identity intact. To paraphrase Aemon, “she is a Targaryen alone in this world…” (she does not know that she might have some relatives out there)

      Obviously, Dany’s tale has grown in the telling and speculating her destiny is great sport. Will she take the Dothraki, UnSullied, and/or the navy fleet (code name Victarion) she has available? All of them? Or maybe she goes it alone, with her fledgling air force? What is really practical as Dany becomes Fire & Blood with her dragon(s)? For me, the Unsullied and Dothraki don’t belong in Westeros and Dany may realize that soon. If I had to choose between them, I would choose the Unsullied (the army she enabled, not was forcibly given to), but that would mean the work she did in Slaver’s Bay would be undone quickly. Does she care about that anymore? Who are her real allies in Westeros if she leaves?

      Plus, GRRM and the show have already implied that the Dothraki don’t travel well over water.

      Also, I believe Dany’s personal mission may change once she hears about the other dragon heads out there and the implied threat to Westeros from the north. Massive dragon/WW/wildling violence looms, in addition to the dysfunctional aftermath of the Wot5K. Is the time of Targs over in Westeros or was the last 17 years just a hiccup in the great Targ reign?

      Regardless, it is time for great speculation, and I find great intrigue in the “Dany hate” as some call it. Targs are either revered or reviled. Onward!

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    218. Shadow Shifter: I’d rather that they go with her and see how that will be perceived by Westeros once they land.

      Yikes! Can you imagine the perception of any indigenous soul in Westeros toward the Dothraki? Disgust and fear…as contrasted/compared with the “fear and awe” that they may have toward Dany and her dragons. Perhaps it would be great theatre but I think alliances, great counseling and air force intimidation will be the path for Dany (before she realizes the greater threat and/or understanding awaiting her).

      One cool comparison between Dany and Stannis: Stannis’ ultimate goal was to rule Westeros (thinking he was the “rightful king”) but he soon realized that handling the threat from the north was the respectable and noble thing to do. Then his ego and the weather got the best of him as he turned his attention southward again. Will Dany be presented with a similar scenario (or in the opposite order)?

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    219. Hodor’s Bastard,

      Yikes! Can you imagine the perception of any indigenous soul in Westeros toward the Dothraki? Disgust and fear…as contrasted/compared with the “fear and awe” that they may have toward Dany and her dragons. Perhaps it would be great theatre but I think alliances, great counseling and air force intimidation will be the path for Dany (before she realizes the greater threat and/or understanding awaiting her).

      And all in the middle of winter. I don’t think the Dothraki will fare well during winter in Westeros. Heck, I don’t think the Unsullied will fair well. She needs the to Houses to unite and get behind her or else, she’ll have a hard time even with her dragons. Two are pretty much untamable right now and Drogon is still unpredictable. Plus it’s also winter. We really have no idea how the dragons will fair in the face of a blizzard. Her best bet is to unite with Jon and forget about conquering the IT for a moment.

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    220. TheTouchOfFrost: Her best bets are the Dornish and the North but with Dorne looking like going with YG and the North in the midst of a civil war her options narrow. Perhaps the Vale?

      One must wonder how the Dornish will react after hearing about the barbe-Q. Are they really that tight with G/YG after Rhaegar/Elia? Is Arianne really Queen Nymeria’s last hope? Their many attempts to impact the power structure of Westeros have failed utterly. I think the Dornish will be an ally for trade and respect (and maybe for a few skirmishes with the Lannisters) but as Aegon I once realized, they aren’t great gamers.

      Although the Vale would be a cool (figuratively and literally) place for her air force to land, I think that Dany is destined for Dragonstone. I believe she must see the land of her forebears and she must be in a place to intimidate KL, as Aegon I did. It would be so awesome to see the dragons return to Dragonstone and see hobbled Loras and the Redwyne navy shit their collective small pants as they flee. Although, I also believe history will not repeat itself once she is on Dragonstone.

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    221. Shadow Shifter:

      And all in the middle of winter. I don’t think the Dothraki will fare well during winter in Westeros. Heck, I don’t think the Unsullied will fair well. She needs the to Houses to unite and get behind her or else, she’ll have a hard time even with her dragons. Two are pretty much untamable right now and Drogon is still unpredictable. Plus it’s also winter. We really have no idea how the dragons will fair in the face of a blizzard. Her best bet is to unite with Jon and forget about conquering the IT for a moment.

      Although I think the Dany-Drogon (D&D) bond is pretty tight now (or should be), I’m with you all the way. I love the chaos and challenge that the abused and angry R&V bring to the equation. I agree that another war to rule Westeros is not the ultimate answer for Dany.

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    222. “To go north, you must go south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward you must go back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.”

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    223. MeeraReed:
      “To go north, you must go south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward you must go back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.”

      Yeah…but what’s new?

      That could apply to Arya (west/east, light/shadow), Tyrion (west/east, light/shadow, forward/back), Dany (all iterations), Sansa (forward/back, north/south), Sam (north/south, forward/back), Bran (forward/back), and Jon (light/shadow, forward/back) with various interpretations.

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    224. Hodor’s Bastard,

      To ho forward with her mission to sit on the iron throne, she needs to go back to the beginning of her journey. The first time she didn’t have the support of all the Dothraki- it sounds like she just might be getting it. When they follow her to Westoros, it will give her even more confidence that she has the ability to bring people to her side. As for the north/south part, she may find out about the WWs and want to do something right away. The more prudent choice may be to be in the south of KL, again winning those people may benefit her in ways that are not yet clear as she makes her way north.

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    225. MeeraReed,

      Excellent summary and analysis of Quaithe’s cryptic words as they apply to Dany but what is Quaithe’s agenda? To reassert a Targ to power or to provide confusing noise per another agenda? Dany has been manipulated before. Who is Quaithe? AD? Dany’s conscience? I would like to know!

      Regardless of the validity of Quaithe’s curious words, I have trouble with the Dothraki finding a home in Westeros. When will Dany realize this? I believe she has returned to them simply to reassert herself as Fire & Blood, not to organize an army that may be highly dysfunctional during their sea voyage and once they arrive on an unknown land. Dany’s air force and alliances shall make the difference, not her army or navy, imho.

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    226. Hodor’s Bastard:

      To paraphrase Aemon, “she is a Targaryen alone in this world…” (she does not know that she might have some relatives out there)

      Jon might be one and that is still questionable to say, but I never bought Tyrion being a Targaryen. In fact it would be better if he was truly Tywin’s son. They might go this route(some vague hints on the show and more in the books), but if he’s going to bond with a dragon that doesn’t mean he’s a Targaryen.

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    227. Geralt of Rivia: but I never bought Tyrion being a Targaryen.

      I would hate it if Tyrion was not Tywin’s son. I have never even entertained that thought seriously. I was referring only to J, A(yg), and BR (all of them should be relatives).

      However, I love the silly theory that A + J = J + C. It would shine light on their sibling love, Tywin’s tolerance of their love, J’s cockiness, and C’s lust for power. It would also mean that both T and J killed their fathers. 🙂 Yes it is silly….completely implausible…idiocy…nonsense…

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    228. Hodor’s Bastard:
      MeeraReed,

      what is Quaithe’s agenda?…Who is Quaithe?

      Given her ability to project her image and voice into Dany’s presence without physically being there – a power associated with dragonglass candles – I’m leaning toward the hypothesis that Quaithe is an agent of Marwyn the Archmage. They may have hooked up in Asshai. But what they’re trying to accomplish via Dany and her dragons remains a tantalizing mystery even if that’s true.

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    229. Firannion,

      Oh? I’m listening….

      The possibility of maester manipulations of Westeros history and possible future is quite intriguing. Another soul travelling the stormy seas to reach Dany…hmmmm… Maesters, red priests, pirates, dwarves, knights, princes, paupers, harpies, dothraki, unsullied, warlocks…they all want a piece of the dragon mama!

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    230. Hodor’s Bastard:
      Firannion,

      The possibility of maester manipulations of Westeros history and possible future is quite intriguing.

      Indeed! It may be just wishful thinking, but I like to think that they may be GRRM’s analogue to the Bene Gesserit in the Dune books: the hidden hand behind the curtain, playing a meta-game way beyond the dreams of this era’s two-bit game-players.

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