HBO releases the first official photos of Game of Thrones Season 8!

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It’s here, everyone!  No, not the trailer, but the first official images from season 8!

None of the stills offer too much in the way of plot details, but there’s still plenty to feast your eyes upon. Without further delay, let’s get into them:

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We’ve got a great, up-close look at one of Cersei’s gorgeous new gowns in season 8. It looks like she’s added some golden armor to her ensemble. This could be to make up for Jaime’s absence … or it could just be the reflection of the candlelight.

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Tyron stands on the ramparts of Winterfell, wearing a new wintery outfit that … somewhat reflects the design of Cersei’s new dress. Or is that just me?

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Here we see Jon standing in Winterfell courtyard looking … dare I say a little bit hopeful? In terms of the angling and location, it’s certainly possible that this image takes place in the same scene as …

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I mean, we know Arya and Jon have to reunite this season, don’t we? Don’t we? So why not here? Helen Sloan - HBO (6)

Daenerys continues to incorporate Westerosi climate and customs into her new wardrobe.

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Sansa’s looking very Queen of the North-y. As with the Jon and Arya stills, it’s dangerous (though tempting) to deduce too much. However, going by the eyelines, it very likely that Sansa and Daenerys’ stills take place in the same scene.

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A rare and hard-earned smile from Jaime Lannister, who’s now sporting a rugged (and very Northern) beard. The big question, of course, is who is he smiling at? (Like for Tyrion; reblog for Brienne. There are no other options).

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Brienne is looking intense at whatever is transpiring off screen (if the gods are good she’ll actually have something to do in season 8 .. *ahem*)

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Davos listens carefully as he sits with a winter-ready Unsullied soldier behind him. 

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Varys has made it to the North! And he, like everyone else, has tailored his outfit accordingly.

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The most tragic of the Starks (that’s right, I said it!) sits before the fire, perhaps contemplating how best to break some uncomfortable news to Westeros’ most affection aunt and nephew.

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The last man of House Tarly smiles that warm, signature smile that we didn’t get to see much of last season. But how long until he learns that Daenerys is the, er, reason he’s the last man of House Tarly?

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Jon and Daenerys stand dramatically beyond the wall (judging from the landscape behind them, though it could possibly just be an especially rugged part of the North). Daenerys’ white fur dress has been updated with some red fabric. Is this to emphasize her Fire and Blood nature or just to differentiate herself from the background? We’ll have to wait and see.

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This photo, which was released separately from the other season 8 photos, likely depicts the same scene between Jon and Daenerys but from a different angle. It’s nice to see that, as serious and down-to-business as they appear in their first photo, they still take the time to make lovey-dovey eyes at each other.

374 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. OMG..HODOR …Look at Dannys belly also in the 3rd and 8th photography ..Jonerys baby is pretty here..CONFIRMED ..OMG ..This is shocking news .

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    2. Amaaaaazing! Jaime looks like he’s wearing borrowed (or Northern) armor! Perhaps he makes it North after all! Also, love Dany’s new red outfit and I love seeing the Unsullied in the background of some of these photos. Also is Arya (and everyone else) looking at dragons??

      Jack Bauer 24,

      Looks like the same outfits but new angles.

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    3. Woo!!! I remember them posting similar head shot type pictures from the last few seasons as a first little titbit if info. I’ve been waiting for them to do the same again this time around.

      Everyone looks worried, except Dany, who seems pleased the whole time and Arya and Brienne, who seem pissed. Oh and of course Jaime’s Charming smile – hope that’s directed at the Lady of House Tarth.

      I wonder what Jon is showing Dany – the environs remind me of the land up by the wall near Castle Black, but I doubt they’d head up there. Love Sansa’s Expression, I can just hear her cogs turning as she works out a plan.

      These pictures have ratcheted up my excitement tenfold!!!

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    4. The costumes look incredible. The crew never miss when it comes to the look and aesthetic of the show. Wow.

      I love these teaser headshots and just as Che mentioned, I was waiting for them as well.

      This only reaffirms my suspicions that the trailer will drop last week of Feb/first week of March.

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    5. Edward:
      The costumes look incredible. The crew never miss when it comes to the look and aesthetic of the show. Wow.

      I love these teaser headshots and just as Che mentioned, I was waiting for them as well.

      This only reaffirms my suspicions that the trailer will drop last week of Feb/first week of March.

      Yeah early March I think. Didn’t we get the poster before the production stills previous seasons?

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    6. Edward,

      they keep 6th and 13th days of months for any GoT related news…. november 13, december 6, january 6, january 13 then february 6, lets hope for february 13 to be trailer day !!!!!

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    7. Dark Sister:
      Amaaaaazing! Jaime looks like he’s wearing borrowed (or Northern) armor! Perhaps he makes it North after all! Also, love Dany’s new red outfit and I love seeing the Unsullied in the background of some of these photos. Also is Arya (and everyone else) looking at dragons??

      Jack Bauer 24,

      Looks like the same outfits but new angles.

      Where’s the Unsullied?

      Also, no Missandei?

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    8. I wonder if Dany and Jon are looking at the breach in the Wall. That photograph (except for Cersei) seems to be the only one outside WF.

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    9. BeardedOnion:
      Looks like Arya’s not that thrilled about Dany, probably her first time seeing her I’m guessing.

      That can’t be Arya loooking at Dany. And Arya will be having a nerdgasm when she sees Daenerys the Dragonrider Targaryen.

      Arya’s gaze is directed upward at someone.

      On the other hand, somebody could be offering Arya the crown, and she’s just replying:

      “Not today.”

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    10. Hovo:
      Edward,

      they keep 6th and 13th days of months for any GoT related news…. november 13, december 6, january 6, january 13 then february 6,lets hope for february 13 to be trailer day !!!!!

      Wow I went back and checked and you’re right. While I don’t think well get a trailer next week that’s pretty crazy.

      November 13th – For The Throne video with the April premiere month announcement.

      December 6th – Dragonstone teaser

      January 6th – The “Coming in 2019” video with the Dany/Sansa clip

      January 13th – “Crypts of Winterfell” and April 14th premiere date

      February 6th – Production stills

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    11. Jack Bauer 24,

      BeardedOnion,

      Could be a dragon but I imagine it could also be Jamie as it looks like it may not be too long before he gets to the north as well

      They all look so good and I love Dany’s two new outfits, in the inside one Dany’s eyes look watery like she could be about to cry, could this possibly be the scene she finds out about undead Viserion?

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    12. Edward,

      they keep 6th and 13th days of moths for any GoT related news…. november 13, december 6, january 6, january 13 then february 6, lets hope for february 13 to be trailer day !!!!!

      Ten Bears: That can’t be Arya loooking at Dany. And Arya will be having a nerdgasm when she sees Daenerys the Dragonrider Targaryen.

      Arya’s gaze is directed upward at someone.

      On the other hand, somebody could be offering Arya the crown, and she’s just replying:

      “Not today.”

      I think she looks dragons,,,before Denys arrivaldragons will fly above winterfell…

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    13. -Cersei: nice armored dress – still on throne but sadness in her eyes
      – Jon: at Winterfell with a typical Jon look
      – Daenerys: looks very happy – love the new gray wolfish outfit
      – Brienne: like Jon, a pretty typical look
      – Jaime: in ugly, worn armor. I guess he didn’t pack his good stuff
      – Sansa: with her typical resting bitch face
      – Cersei: at the top of the stairs I reckon she’s going to be going up and down all season
      – J&D: Is this looking at Winterfell as they arrive similar to Arya’s scene in S7? It kind of looks more like the Iceland terrain
      – Davos: this must be in a meeting after J&D arrive (unsullied guard)
      – Varys in his pose that would be pocket pool if he could
      – ASNAWP!!

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    14. Medusa:
      OMG..HODOR …Look at Dannys belly also in the 3rd and 8th photography ..Jonerys baby is pretty here..CONFIRMED ..OMG ..This is shocking news .

      I firmly believe Dany will get pregnant, but Im not seeing what you’re seeing in these photos

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    15. Alright. I’m convinced. That picture of Arya – standing in front of a lineup of people – is from the inhabitants of WF formally greeting Queen Daenerys and Jon Snow (like the lineup that greeting King Robert in S1e1).

      That look on Arya’s face is when she locks eyes with Jon the first time – seconds before she leaps into his arms.

      💞

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    16. The Jon/Dany photo is interesting. Either looking at WF upon arrival or they went North of Wall again. Not sure why they’d go North of the Wall though.

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    17. My jaw dropped at Cersei’s costume. Holy cow, that’s amazing looking. Everyone looks incredible! That first picture of Dany makes me wonder if she was told an awkward piece of important information just then. Hmm….

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    18. Mr Derp:
      The Jon/Dany photo is interesting.Either looking at WF upon arrival or they went North of Wall again.Not sure why they’d go North of the Wall though.

      Stupid Wight Plan Redux?

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    19. I’m getting excited right now.

      My favorite photo: Jaime and Davos. Jaime’s look is amazing. Season 1 he had that arrogant look and now he have that wise-old-men look.
      And Davos, who doesn’t like Davos.

      About Dany: Her clothes remind me of white walkers. White with blue.

      About season 8. I just started rereading the books, I’m halfway through the first book and of course I see scenes that are very important for season 8, I will post them here when I read them.
      1. How will Bran react to Jaime, he is the one that pushed him out of the window and he can look into the past now. I think he will react just fine because he is the 3ER now.
      2. Arya overheard Varys and Ilyrio talking about murdering the hand of the king, her father. Can she connect Varys to that moment, and if so how will she react. Probably not that good.

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    20. Ten Bears:
      Aryamad,

      You’re right. Everyone looks incredible! Shout out to the wardrobe dept, stylists, and costume designers for upping the ante every year.

      And we haven’t even seen the Night King yet. Maybe he brought out his Sunday’s finest for the last season…Or at least won’t look like Jimmy Durante anymore.

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    21. Mr Derp: And we haven’t even seen the Night King yet.Maybe he brought out his Sunday’s finest for the last season…Or at least won’t look like Jimmy Durante anymore.

      Or Tormund lol

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    22. HelloThere,

      She’s going to be so lonely in the last season. All she has left is Qyburn and whatever’s remaining of The Mountain. I would count Euron too, but I get the feeling Cersei doesn’t exactly relish his company. She’s just using him as a means to an end.

      I would feel bad for her if she didn’t do this to herself.

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    23. kevin1989,

      What do you mean white with blue for Dany’s clothes which reminds you of whitewalkers? She hasn’t got any blue in her clothes it’s white and red like Ghost and the weirwood tree then red and black the Targaryen colours

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    24. I’ve noticed in all the Dany pics, all the shots, the omaze video etc we haven’t seen Dany with her traditional two pieces of hair in front of her face at all

      Jamie is so looking at Brienne in this shot, that soft look and smile is his Brienne look for sure

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    25. kevin1989,

      its not white with blue ..its white mixed with red and looks like a direwolf skin..GHOST ….Her other costume in the photo is Gray mixed with Red and look with Dragon skin ..Danny seems to embrace the Starks and the Targaryens combined in her new clothes ..also in the photo.of her and Jon .is pretty obvious the belly bump[5-6 months pregnancy] there..HER PREGNANCY IS CONFIRMED AS WELL THIS TIME ..Cerceis clothes there reminds me White Walker ..she wears under her armor dress something that looks like with skeleton chest amd its blue

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    26. Ten Bears:
      Mr Derp,

      Don’t forget sweet Bernadette. (My new heartthrob after that vicious Reekster murdered my one true love Myranda).

      Yep, the hottest Vulcan woman in Westeros. 🙂

      I bet we don’t see hide nor hair of Tormund and Beric in promos. We know they were around for filming but casuals probably don’t. Sooo, those two are a couple of the “did they die” surprise characters to pop up in S8.

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    27. Mel,

      Sorry didn’t mean white and blue more that I find her white in her dress a little bit blue. But maybe it’s my eyes. Haha

      But still it has some white walker look over it. The way it’s weaven. But as you stated with red. Maybe it has a reason for that.

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    28. Clob:

      – Daenerys: looks very happy – love the new gray wolfish outfit

      Looks so Northish — possibly a gift from Sansa before Daenerys faces the Northern Lords?!?

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    29. Daenerys’ outfit looks so comfy and beautiful! Love the red accents on it. Oh and she even has another one? Nice!
      Cersei’s costume on the other hand is just plain badass. Love the skeleton accents on her outfits. Wonder if it has a deeper meaning other than her being kinda dead inside (I hope not literelly, but everythings pointing to a miscarriage). Still, with those lit costumes she sure looks good on the Iron Throne. Robert and Joffrey were a joke compared to her looking-wise. And I agree with what was said before: She looks really lonely. It makes me almost feel sorry for her… and than we have Winterfell, which compared to KL I think will be a complete party of interactions.

      And how foreign, seeing Jaime in northern armor. Remember season 1 where he said he didn’t wanted to be left alone with these people? Now he left his lover to be with exactly those people. I just love this series!

      The trailer can’t come soon enough.

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    30. Ten Bears,

      … and yes, speaking of the Vulcan and so few characters surrounding Cersei in KL, it would be nice for Bernadette (Sara) to be given a little more screen time. I mean, her first appearance on the show was in season two after all.

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    31. I think Arya may be looking up at someone on the walkway around Winterfell. Could be Sansa as she makes her way down to do the informal greeting that we’ve seen in the promo. Could also be her looking at Tyrion & Varys. Remember she heard Varys plotting with Ilyrio while she was lost down in the tunnels under the Red Keep in season 1. Arya doesn’t forget much of anything. I expect her to be very wary of the Spider & Lannisters this season…

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    32. Cersei’s dress is AMAZING… The details on that costume are absolutely fantastic. I giggled at Sansa’s face… I can imagine everyone speaking about this and that and she looking at them with that gaze.

      Also, am I the only one who got the feeling that Varys was outside visiting his old friend, Petyr? I wonder how he’ll react to the news that Starks killed him.

      Yeah, winter came…

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    33. I’m not going to try to guess what each is looking at because there are just way, way too many possibilities, including ‘nothing in particular.’ I tried with the Arya in the inn picture for S7 and wasn’t even close. Although, I do think my guess of her watching minstrel Sheeran perform at the inn would have been a better role than what they gave him. 🙂

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    34. Risto: am I the only one who got the feeling that Varys was outside visiting his old friend, Petyr? I wonder how he’ll react to the news that Starks killed him.

      I would imagine he’ll be purely elated.

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    35. Aegon the IceDragon,
      kevin1989,

      I actually wonder if the writers will have Arya remember that particular event because it was tied more to the book plotline of Varys supporting fAegon and plotting to marry Viserys to Arianne, however, since the show diverted from those storylines, I wonder if there is any relevance to Arya remembering that unless it’s just for the sake of creating internal conflict.

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    36. WHAT IF!!

      Tyrion makes Jamie a contraption to hold a sword, just like he made Bran a contraption to ride a horse!?!? We would be able to see the Kingslayer in full action with Widows Wail.

      I know thats a huge leap but damn that would be so cool!

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    37. Jaime’s armor looks like he made it himself.

      Everyone looks very nice!

      I think that the best-composed photos are of Arya, Sansa and Jaime. These are fresh photos – in the sense the image makes you see the subject of the photo anew. Cersei’s photo is also fresh because of the depth of feeling carried in the face.

      Davos and Varys are also very good photos mainly because the lighting and their clothing is so nicely captured.

      Photos of Tyrion, Jon, Sam, Bran, Daenerys etc offer nothing new about the person. The photographer needed to think a bit harder.

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    38. Kevin1989,

      Ah yes, that isn’t actually her dress looking blue but all the scenes in the snow and WF all have a blue filter they put over it in the show it pisses gif makers off a lot when they are making gif sets lol

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    39. OK, great! Let’s try to pick some details.

      1) Cersei. She’s definitely wearing the same attire as in the scenes filmed at Dubrovnik – presumably, for Ep4. Sure, she can wear the same attire in different episodes, but still it looks like the stills cme from some highly emotional scene and I don’t expect Cersei having emotional scenes in the first half of the season (except of the potential miscarriage bu that would be at a different set). Therefore, I dare to guess that these stills come from Ep4 and that Cersei’s flat belly indicates that the miscarriage (or abortion) has already happened.

      2) Jaime looks to be at Winterfell’s: there’s that characteristic dark and bright stone in the backround. The still should be from the beginning of the season: late Ep1 or Ep 2.

      3) Jon & Dany. The shot must be from Iceland where they filmed. What’s interesting, I don’t see any body armor on Jon: no traditional Stark brigandine or gorget. Does this mean that the war is already over or has he been stripped off his armor due to some circumstances? Anyway, these stills must be from the second half of the season (I think, Jon was wearing a similar attire in Dubrovnik) and they almost scream of a happy ending to me (at least in terms that those two won’t go against each other). However, no signs of pregnancy (though I always thought that Dany’s prengnacy, if any, will come only at the very end).

      4) Arya. IMO, the man behind her should be some NW extra (the attire looks similar and there were some men with long hair there). Which means that the remains of the NW has already made it to Winterfell, which means that it might be Ep2 (or even early Ep3) and not the initial welcoming scene from early Ep1.

      Other stills must be from Ep1-2. Nothing special, except of the fact that everyone looks highly concerned (except Dany).

      So, the main three questions are: 1) Cersei’s preganancy; 2) Dany’s pregnancy; and 3) the location of the Jon & Dany stills.

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    40. Dark Sister,

      You know it will just be to create some internal conflict. Varys was talking about killing the Hand (which was Ned at the time). They never really followed up on what they were hoping to accomplish (I assume they shifted from book fAegon to show Dany) and I suspect Arya will use one of her faces to catch Varys & Tyrion plotting to depose Dany and Arya will expose him/them. This could mean Arya and Dany form a bond? But if they’re plotting to depose Dany for Jon couldn’t that cause a conflict of interest in Arya? So I actually have no idea how this could all play out. Lol.

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    41. Clob:
      kathy,

      “Maybe for their honeymoon Jon takes her to a nice little Cave & Breakfast that he has previously spent some time.”

      Sacrilege! Ygritte’s ghost would shoot him full of arrows for sure 😆

      So excited to see the first stills from season 8. Idk why but Varys looks adorable in black!

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    42. “The big question, of course, is who is he smiling at? (Like for Tyrion; reblog for Brienne. There are no other options).”

      I could think of another option: It’s a look of relief – Jaime feeling a great weight of guilt drop off his shoulders after being totally absolved by Bran for having pushed him out the window. Bran will have no patience for any thoughts of revenge at this point, from his godlike omniscient perspective. He will say something like, “It was meant to be.”

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    43. Aegon the IceDragon,

      OOoo I kinda like the idea of her eavesdropping on some plans to depose Dany and/or Jon. Either way, I would like it if Arya and Dany form a bond.

      Also in the words of JvN quoting Dany: where are…..my dragooons? Last year we had that awesome photo of Dany on Drogon at the Loot Train Attack, but no dragon photo this time around? Maybe it would give away too much.

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    44. Firannion:
      I wonder if the happy look on Sam’s face means that he has just spotted Jon after not having seen him for ages.

      That’s what I thought at first, but wouldn’t he be outside with everyone else when Jon arrives?

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    45. Dark Sister:
      Aegon the IceDragon,
      kevin1989,

      I actually wonder if the writers will have Arya remember that particular event because it was tied more to the book plotline of Varys supporting fAegon and plotting to marry Viserys to Arianne, however, since the show diverted from those storylines, I wonder if there is any relevance to Arya remembering that unless it’s just for the sake of creating internal conflict.

      Though I may be muddling up the book version of that scene with the TV version, I don’t think we ever got any indication that Arya knew who the two men having that conversation were. It happened in the dark, and I don’t think she had ever met Varys. Seems to me that Arya has other fish to fry.

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    46. I want just one long panoramic shot of everyone’s faces when they see Drogon and Rhaegal lol. Maybe when everyone is lined up outside Winterfell when Dany and Jon arrive.

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    47. It’s probably just coincidence that they have the Arya photo immediately following the Jon photo, but seeing them in sequence definitely made me a little misty-eyed.

      I’m really hoping that their reuniting scene is one-on-one, though – not in the context of a big formal reception for the arriving king and queen, where Jon’s attention has to be divided. I’d love it if Arya got wind of their approach and went out to meet his traveling party on the Kingsroad coming up from White Harbor. It would be especially cool if she were in disguise – kind of parallelling her wearing a helmet when King Robert’s entourage arrived in S1 E1.

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    48. Inga,

      Dannys pregnancy is hinted cryptically[i can see it] by the Ghost/Weirwood look like coat she wears there ..maybe this pic is from the Ep3 when Dannys pregnancy will be revealed to Jon and the rest and to us before the Battle of Winterfell ..The coat maybe is used in the photos for to hide from us the spoiler for Dannys pregnancy as ahidden Easter Egg in the photos ..As for Cercei..she either would have already miscarry or give birth in earlier episode…The location is maybe the Wall or Winterfell during the heavy heavy Winter [who probably will is filmed in Iceland]

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    49. Have we seen this cloak on Arya before? There is a definite spiderweb look to the grey woolen part. Will we finally get to see ice spiders big as hounds this season?

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    50. Jack Bauer 24,
      I guess that raises the question of whether or not Drogon and Rhaegal will be within range of view when they arrive. I’m not sure J&D want everyone shitting their pants and making fearful, dangerous actions by having them too close. If nearby at all I’d have them flying very high overhead where they’d be much less impressive and fear inducing.

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    51. Jack Bauer 24,

      I actually think we will get a trailer next week and this guy is spot on. I genuinely don’t think HBO is going to wait much longer to ramp up the marketing here. Dropping a few photos of just characters and then nothing for a month when the premiere date is like 65 days away would be kind of silly.

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    52. Dee Stark:
      Wow!!! So nice! I am so excited but so sad at the same time.

      The final Game of Thrones preview pics for the final Game of Thrones season…

      Feb 13th – Poster?
      March 6th – Trailer?

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    53. PS. I have also noticed that Jon’s still has been taken outside Winterfell walls rather than inside them. I guess they are preparing defences/traps before the attack. So, might be early Ep3: scenes before the battle. Same for Arya’s still: IMO she might be looking at the dragons (Dany’s dragons taking off for a battle or Night King’s dragon approaching Winterfell). And there are other people behind her looking up: one looks like a NW brother, another might be an Ironborn (IMO we saw a similar armor on the “corpses”).

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    54. David:
      Jack Bauer 24,

      I actually think we will get a trailer next week and this guy is spot on. I genuinely don’t think HBO is going to wait much longer to ramp up the marketing here. Dropping a few photos of just characters and then nothing for a month when the premiere date is like 65 days away would be kind of silly.

      I just don’t think it’ll drop before the 24th which is the True Detective finale. I don’t think they ever dropped the trailer a week after the production stills. They need something for March and we need the official poster first.

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    55. Seriously. I know it’s winter and all, but couldn’t they at least give them slightly different costumes? The only noticeable difference is Varys’ outfit.. and while we’re on it- These costumes are not nearly suitable enough for the winters that we’ve been told will befall Westeros in the long night. Not even a hat, hood, gloves in sight 🤷🏼‍♂️🙄

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    56. And I went back to Season 6 and the first photos were released February 11th, 2016 and the first trailer was March 9th. So just 2 days short of a month.

      February 11th photos http://watchersonthewall.com/20-new-official-game-of-thrones-photos-released-from-season-6/

      March 9th – Trailer http://watchersonthewall.com/first-game-of-thrones-season-6-trailer-released/

      So both Seasons 6 and 7 had an average of a month between stills and trailer. Hopefully we have the trailer by first week of March.

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    57. That new Cersei dress blows all of her season 7 dresses out of the water! There was something off and too modern about the season 7 Cersei dresses so this is a great return to form 😀

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    58. I thought that if Jon is wearing his fur cape, he’s either arriving or departing. But there is Brienne and Sansa both seated indoors with their capes on. Maybe it’s kind of formal wear, like a uniform of authority. Maybe it’s like a suit jacket where you work in your shirt but put on your jacket for meetings? Anyway, he’s either arriving from a journey or he’s commanding underlings.

      If Davos is receiving a salary, he’s not spending it on clothes – that’s for damn sure.

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    59. Some more stats…

      The Night King poster for Season 7 was released May 23rd, 2017 one day before the first trailer. Season 6 Hall of Faces poster was February 24th, 2016. That was 12 days before the first trailer and 13 days after the first photos.

      Season 6
      First photos – February 11th, 2016
      Poster – February 20th, 2016
      Trailer – March 9th, 2016

      Season 7
      First photos – April 20th, 2017
      Poster – May 23rd, 2017
      Trailer – May 24th, 2017

        Quote  Reply

    60. David,

      i expect a trailer during the finale of TD and during the Oscars [24 FEB]not before..next week we might get a poster for S8 or a small teaser for Jon/Danny[Valentines Day].

        Quote  Reply

    61. The cast looks stellar as always, and Michelle Clapton continues to surpass herself! Those images of Cersei, Jaime, and Dany are particularly great. For some reason, even though I knew he was heading to the North, the shot of Varys in dark Northern garb is the one that caught me most off guard, but he’s owning it. The Spider is nothing if not adaptable.

      My favorite, though, has to be the one of Jon and Dany looking at one another. Yeah, it’s safe to say I’m completely in the tank for those two …

      Hovo,

      Jack Bauer 24: Wow I went back and checked and you’re right. While I don’t think well get a trailer next week that’s pretty crazy.

      November 13th – For The Throne video with the April premiere month announcement.

      December 6th – Dragonstone teaser

      January 6th – The “Coming in 2019” video with the Dany/Sansa clip

      January 13th – “Crypts of Winterfell” and April 14th premiere date

      February 6th – Production stills

      Nice observation! Here’s hoping they’ll have something new for us next week. The poster would be my guess, but I dare to hope for a trailer …

        Quote  Reply

    62. Medusa:
      kevin1989,

      ..also in thephoto.of her and Jon .is pretty obvious the belly bump[5-6 months pregnancy] there..HER PREGNANCY IS CONFIRMED AS WELL THIS TIME

      Yes. From that perspective, it’s obvious that Arya, Brienne and Sansa are also totes pregnant. And Davos. Also very likely Jaime. Varys too.

      Seriously, wtf? 😆

        Quote  Reply

    63. Apollo,

      Apollo:
      Anon,

      Or maybe it’s cold?

      I don’t know how cold Sansa and Brienne are sitting inside by the fire with their capes on. Jon is definitely not fighting or working, he’s giving orders and on some kind of ceremony. Maybe it’s the very same scene where he arrives.

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    64. Daenerys will be giving birth to a peanut.

      That is all she could be carrying that is 5-6 months along and still be that flat in profile.

        Quote  Reply

    65. Have they officially said how the season will open? I think the Jon/Dany outside scene is pre-arrival to Winterfell. Jon is showing her the size of the North & explaining to her how the Northerners are very closed off and not too accepting of outsiders. And probably suggesting they should ride into Winterfell together by horse & not the fear inducing entry on Drogon.

      Also, Arya never had a chance to see Varys’ face but she could very well remember that distinct voice. Thus putting him & Tyrion on her radar. I actually think Tyrion will be on her radar anyway because he’s a Lannister & she could very well be looking up at him on the walkway (that is where he’s standing in his photo…).

      Food for thought, the last person that Arya looked up to on that walkway like that (Littlefinger), she damn near decapitated by season’s end. So Tyrion & Varys beware…

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    66. What a great surprise to see these photos from season 8!

      Cersei, as always, looks amazing in that black robe and shoulder pads.

      I’m very intrigued by the Jamie photo, and excited to see how his journey to Winterfell will go. I don’t think he’s just going to suddenly appear there. He’ll definitely take an episode or two before he arrives.

      And of course, super excited to see Arya! I don’t quite get the “pissed off” look that some were saying earlier though. There is an intensity to her stare, but to me it seems more like anticipation.

      Closing in on the two-month mark as well!

        Quote  Reply

    67. Aegon the IceDragon,

      “Food for thought, the last person that Arya looked up to on that walkway like that (Littlefinger), she damn near decapitated by season’s end. So Tyrion & Varys beware…”

      Arya either makes steadfast friends out of enemies (eg Hot Pie, Lommy – and whether she accepts it yet or not, Sandor), or terminates them.

      When you play the game of Arya, you grin or you die. There’s no middle ground.

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    68. Sansa appears to be sat between Bran (that’s the back of his wheelchair on the left) and presumably Jon (looks like a man’s hand on the right and a bigger chair for the King).

      I wonder who they’re listening to.

      Perhaps Daenerys is giving her sales pitch to the Northerners.

        Quote  Reply

    69. Thank the Mother!

      Finally feels like we’re heading down the home stretch with the release of these photographs!!!

      So much black, grey, white, brown and maroon… all colors of mourning and death, makes me wish the Tyrells were still living and a factor.

      This was the best news so far this week!

        Quote  Reply

    70. Webhead:
      Ten Bears,

      Most likely because she left him for dead. She may respect him but am not sure necessarily likes him.

      After what she’s seen and been through since they parted, she’s likely to be delighted to see him. They had good,, if rough, times for two years. I think her expression is at least of mild surprise, which she’d feel if she’s spotting him OR Gendry.

      Jaime has a very pleased smile…from spotting Brienne perhaps. The other photos that intrigue me are Cersei’s. The IT close-up shows draped iron chains on both sides of her chest. And in the full length one of Cersei stands straight, but with arms straight at her side. Behind her is a bare wall that intersects with another. And off to her left is a door with light. I can’t help but be reminded of a prison. I find the photos very sad.

        Quote  Reply

    71. I’m always struck by how the Lannisters have changed physically since the beginning. The blonde had darkened considerably, Jaime’s got the short ‘do making him less like Prince Charming/Lord Farquaad, Tyrion looks miles better with the curls and beard, and Cersei retains Tommen’s scalp on her noggin.

        Quote  Reply

    72. Jack Bauer 24:
      So the premiere is going to be 55 minutes of WF, 3-4 minutes of KL and 1 minute of White Walkers marching 😀

      I’m assuming we’ll get an early montage of the AotD overwhelming Last Hearth, Karhold, other very northerly castles and holdfasts.

        Quote  Reply

    73. Jack Bauer 24:
      So the premiere is going to be 55 minutes of WF, 3-4 minutes of KL and 1 minute of White Walkers marching 😀

      I could deal with that.
      15 min of Jon & Arya
      15 min of Sandor & Wolf Girl.
      10 min of Sandor & Little Bird.
      5 min of Dany & Arya mutual fangirling.
      8 min of Jaime & Brienne.
      2 min of Tyrion looking grumpy (again).
      3-4 min of Cersei looking regal but evil.
      1 min of Sandor borrowing Heartsbane, cutting off NK’s head, and commandeering his boots while asking the astonished onlookers: “Got anything to eat?”

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    74. I am so happy that Jaime’s hair has grown out! Seriously, he had in-between hair for, like, four seasons. Looks to be softly lit by firelight. If he’s not working the Lannister charm on brienne, wonder if he and Bran (also by the fire) are having that long awaited heart to heart.

      Could the Jon and Dany stills be from the first time they spot Winterfell?

      Sansa’s seated in the Great Hall. In Dany’s still before that it looks like Dany’s had an unpleasant shock.

      I”m not a fan of Cersei’s new dress. Haven’t been since we got that sneak peak from set photos. Varys stays classicicallystyled as always, but can’t he at least get a hat? Losing a lot of body heat through the head, my man.

        Quote  Reply

    75. Mel,

      Make more sense, but still I’m wondering why white, every year her dress meant something to her personality that year.

      Firannion,

      Or Dany. what if she forgives him for killing her father, maybe even saying he was right, and maybe telling him that she understand why he fight her last year but that he choose right now.

        Quote  Reply

    76. Aegon the IceDragon,
      NinaD,

      I don’t think that Jon & Dany are spotting Winterfell in these stills. Here’s why: Dany is wearing the same coat as in the arrival scene, however, in the arrival scene, she has no white fur on her shoulder. As for Jon, I assume he’s gonna arrive to Winterfell in the same attire he left which implies the Stark brigandine and gorget, but these are not in the stills.

      Iceland must stand for something different. My best guess is that Jon&Dany will have to go to the site where the Night King was created and perform some ritual (?) to undo him or similar. I can’t imagine Icelend to be used for some random filler scene: this landscape calls for something pivotal.

        Quote  Reply

    77. kevin1989,

      IMO, Jaime might be talkong to Jon in this still. He looks to be sitting at the great hall of Winterfell but not at the head of the table – rather in front of it (he’s must be facing the fireplace based on the light). Therefore, I assume Jaime is talking to someone sitting at the head of the table, and that’s most probably Jon. I imagine a private tete-a-tete before of after some general meeting, cause the hall is emplty. And that might be an important conversation: Jaime is the only living man who knew Jon’s true father in person and admired him – he would be able to give Jon some perspective.

        Quote  Reply

    78. That’s definitely a ledge behind Cersei, so what is she looking down on?
      A cache of wildfire?
      A prisoner?
      The Mountain and the Hound in a battle to the death?
      An empty space where the Golden Company used to be?
      Jamie come to beg her to change her mind and support the north?

        Quote  Reply

    79. That picture of Jon isn’t in the Winterfell courtyard. If you look closely he’s outside the walls (probably on his way into Winterfell like Robert Baratheon in the pilot). Makes sense that they would do this as the Winterfell set has been heavily expanded on the outside. I was getting sick of seeing that one courtyard every time. Hopefully this will add more scale to Winterfell. Arya is probably outside the walls too (to meet her brother). Also, Arya doesn’t look pissed to me. She looks like she’s looking up in awe are dragons.

      As for the beyond the wall pics, I’m guessing Jon and Dany go to check out the breach in the wall when they hear about it? Maybe they pick up Beric and Tormund?

        Quote  Reply

    80. Two months and a week to go (and under two to the red carpet)—yep, I think the hype train oughta start gathering speed right about now! We could have the trailer by the end of the month?! 8~D These photos are lovely (even if there are a couple people I don’t care much for or outright despise, and nowhere near everyone I’d like to see…) But I had the sense of these stills being taken from very early on in the season, perhaps the first episode.
      Just brilliant costuming as always, and also somehow kicking it up yet another notch as always!

      Can’t wait to see everyone come together; lots of potential for tension and conflict of course, but also lots of people who can vouch for one another and dispel it, reminding all of the crucial matters at hand and the necessity of teamwork. (“What’s gonna work? Teeaaamwork!”) Also can’t wait to find out once and for all where at what/whom everyone is really looking, and just what’s going on. Arya, I love you; please leave Varys & Tyrion alone and love them (almost) as much as I do. ^w^ I mean c’mon, look how cute Varys looks. I really think Arya & Dany will get along pretty swimmingly (cannot say the same of Miss RBF over there…heheh.)

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    81. I just watched first epi last night and quite a comparison for these images of the Lannister boys in WF vs that first visit! Partly it’s the beards really do make them look older. Also they stopped dying their hair. But beyond that just everything that they have each been through it’s mind boggling to think about. I am really looking forward to Tyrion and Jaime reunion. Jaime mainly looks at Brienne with pained smouldering angst so I have to imagine he’s talking to Tyrion.

      BTW I now suspect Jaime will be in WF by epi 1 close / various reunions in ep 2, then he might be sent off later on some task. By epi 3 surely the main action of the season will be well underway and there won’t be time for introductions/reunions.

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    82. Love the pics. Not keen on Cersei’s dress but I wouldn’t tell her. Please please give my King in the North some new clothes and the first time I saw Jaime I thought of Robb Stark (the armour) sorry if someone already said. Start my re-watch tonight and I cannot wait 🤗

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    83. What a happy day!

      First my nephew passed his driving test! I’m invested because I taught him to drive from start to finish. I’m the only one in the extended family to have a stick-shift car, and it was a great way to spend time with the teenager, it brought us much closer.

      Then I get home and notice the first S8 stills have dropped!!! Oh joy, joy, oh happy, happy!!!

      I slowly scrolled through the pictures, taking a moment or two to look at each one… And then I got to Jaime! I just lost it, 😀 Gave a squee-y kind of a yelp, haha!

      After studying that Jaime pic for an embarrassingly long time, I scrolled down to see the rest of them. Then scrolled up and really studied each one of them. WARNING: some very long posts coming from me in the near future! 😀

      Oh, BTW, I haven’t read any of the comments yet. I kind of want to have my take on the pictures “unsullied” as it were. Later, I will engage.

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    84. talvikorppi,

      “I slowly scrolled through the pictures, taking a moment or two to look at each one… And then I got to Jaime! I just lost it, 😀 Gave a squee-y kind of a yelp, haha!”

      I’d say I’m at about 99% on the gender fluidity spectrum, but if there’s anything that could tempt me to play for the other team, that picture of Jaime would do it. God, what a beautiful man!

        Quote  Reply

    85. Dee Stark,

      Do you know what kind of trailer I want?

      I want a trailer where 90% of the trailer consist of old footage, we get too see important things that happen in the past which will get a revelation now. This will get you excited but it does not spoil anything.

      I see it clearly for me, we get a short shot of Jaime bushing Bran out of a window in which we get too see a short shot of Jaime walking into winterfell and Bran looking at him.
      A shot of Varys talking about murdering the hand of the king, a shot of Ned dying, a shot of Arya’s list. A shot of Varys and Arya of season 8.
      A shot of Cercei’s prophecy, a shot of her children dying, and a shot of season 8 where she hold her belly.
      Jon with ned: You maybe not have my name, but you have my blood, we talk later about your mother. A shot of Lyanna giving birth and saying promise me Ned with Bran in the back. A shot of Bran talking to Jon: Jon we need to talk.
      And they can do a lot more of that.

        Quote  Reply

    86. Undead Elephant:
      Also, Arya doesn’t look pissed to me. She looks like she’s looking up in awe are dragons.

      That, or Sandor are my best guesses. Arya definitely won’t be pissed at Sandor. She’s already admitted that part of her did not want him dead, so she understands that he’s not as a bad as she originally thought and that he did indeed want to protect her. I think her reaction to The Hound will be one of surprise and a little apprehension because she doesn’t know how he’ll react given that she left him for dead.

      Also, where’s Jorah? Too bad there isn’t a photo of him.

        Quote  Reply

    87. Medusa —

      While I agree with you that Dany will be pregnant this season, I don’t think the photos you cite reveal that pregnancy. They just reveal that she’s wearing a winter coat over her other attire. Winter coats get bulky.

      She looks quite slim in the photo of her indoors, when she is not wearing the coat.

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    88. Enharmony1625: And of course, super excited to see Arya! I don’t quite get the “pissed off” look that some were saying earlier though

      Yeah, no, definitely not pissed off. Maisie probably has the most expressive accurate face on the show. You can pull any past scene and look at her expression to what was just said or seen and it will match. This picture of her is one of mostly non-expression… merely listening to someone talking or scanning the area.

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    89. 1.
      OK, GoT soundtrack playing in the background, I’ll start an embarrassingly long series of posts about the wonderful pictures.

      First of all, I want to say kudos to Helen Sloan, the first, and still the main GoT stills photographer, and the one or two they now employ – sorry that I can’t remember their names.

      It takes special skill to take such wonderful photos when the lighting, angles, backgrounds etc. aren’t set up for you but for the film cameras. When you can’t ask the subject to do this or that, pose this way or that. In a way, it’s a form of documentary photography even though you’re documenting a make-believe world.

      The Cersei photos. In the close-up on the Iron Throne, I love the similar detailing in the front of her dress and on the metal epaullettes. Kudos to Michelle Clapton! Also, notice the chains.

      What or who is she looking at? What does her face express? It’s pretty unreadable to me, but then, Lena Heady’s work as Cersei is always about subtle, tiny micro-expessions that can’t readily be captured on stills. She certainly doesn’t look happy (did Cersei ever?). Does she look a bit… sad? Resigned? Head tipped downwards. Or is she looking down on somebody, listening to the fool Euron, perhaps, her mouth showing a cruel, contemptuos streak, her eyes doubt and… I still think there’s some sadness there. Like she’s in a world of her own. Is she missing Jaime? (Haha, I bloody well hope she is, haha!)

      The next picture is Cersei in probably the Red Keep, apparently about to go down some stairs, to the LIGHT, looking back at someone, or something she’s leaving behind. In the picture, she seems to be leaving darkness (the right side of the photo), and going towards light if she climbs down. Make what you will of it.

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    90. Firannion: I’m assuming we’ll get an early montage of the AotD overwhelming Last Hearth, Karhold, other very northerly castles and holdfasts.

      I’m still expecting an early scene, quite possibly the very first, of Tormund and Beric arriving at Castle Black where they send ravens and follow them for Winterfell along with the rest of the NW. That would restart us with a reminder of what just happened (as if we need it), clarifies those two survived and pulls the NW back into the story.

        Quote  Reply

    91. Clob: Yeah, no, definitely not pissed off.Maisie probably has the most expressive accurate face on the show.You can pull any past scene and look at her expression to what was just said or seen and it will match.This picture of her is one of mostly non-expression… merely listening to someone talking or scanning the area.

      ——
      (from S6e6)
      Lady Crane: “What’s your name?”
      Arya: “Mercy.”
      Lady Crane: “You have very expressive eyes, Mercy. Wonderful eyebrows.”

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    92. 2.
      Next up is Tyrion on the Winterfell courtyard balcony we all know oh so well. Who is he looking at with such a worried expression? Or is it sad and reserved? Regretful? Is he looking at Sansa?? Or Jon and Dany being all lovey-dovey?

      As to his costume, blue is not a Lannister colour. Blue was Dany’s signature colour before S7. Tyrion’s blue bit seems to be embroidered/worked the same Dany’s costumes are, to give a dragon scale effect. (Michelle Clapton is a genius!)

      He’s still wearing the Hand pin.

      Next up is the pic of Jon, which seems to me outside Winterfell (Look at the battlements. The overhang is on the outside to repel attackers). He doesn’t look totally miserable and unhappy. The ground seems muddy, not snowy. In the background, people seem to be moving towards Winterfell.

      Is this after a victorious Winterfell battle, or is this just as he’s arriving at Winterfell in Ep1 – ground muddy because the gathering armies have made it so.

      His fur is a bit wet/dirty, tangled down his right side. Is his face also a bit dirty? Maybe just some travel stains.

      Then Arya. Needle. Check. Valyrian steel Catspaw dagger. Check. Fur cape leaving her left arm free. Check. (Surely all her opponents would twig to her left-handedness immediately with that kind of garb, so she loses her advantage, the element of surprise. Huhm.)

      I’m also very distracted by what appears to be a Night’s Watchman with long, straggly auburn hair behind her. The arm seems to be encased in the same kind of doublet that Sam wears. There’s the black glove and the black cloak. Then there’s someone in more grey armour-type thing to the right, and a teeny bit reddish brown leather armour to the left. Not Pod, but some Lannister footsoldier?

      Anyway, Arya is in a crowd, apparently a diverse crowd, and looks upward towards something or someone. She looks quite cool and collected, in a job done way. Not warm, not entirely unhappy.

      Maisie is also one of these amazing face actors with subtle micro expressions that a stills cameara can’t quite capture.

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    93. Woah!!! Where have I been for 24 hours?! Stoked!!! I debated looking at these for like, half a second. But who am I kidding, that was a futile thought indeed.

      A bit weird to see Varys in the north, but also cool. I like his attire. Wonder how he goes out… and I wonder when we will see Mel.

      Huntermac,

      They are gonna forge a sword onto his golden hand!

      That’s been my best guess anyway. He is gonna slay this season.

        Quote  Reply

    94. 3.
      Dany indoors, with perhaps a teeny slight smile but eyes that look incredulous or worried. Or wonderous, love-eyes, but not knowing how to deal with it, so the mouth is quite still.

      Love the costume. Black with reddish tones. Typical Dany-style with the shoulders, and the colours.

      Next, Sansa. Lady of Winterfell, looking very cool, collected… and reserved, perhaps hiding some inner turmoil.

      Sansa’s obviously sitting behind the Winterfell high table. In the photo, it’s difficult to tell if someone else sits in the next, the highest seat – it’s obvious from the picture that Sansa’s chair is a bit smaller and lower.

      She seems to be listening to someone. Poised, proud and queenly, chin slightly up. Gloved hands clasped in her lap. A bit of chain hanging down her front…

      Sansa is no Cersei, but she wants to have power on her own. Like her sister does. She’s no sword-wielding ASNAWP, but she has political power and some nous on how to use it.

      Remember when I mentioned chains in Cersei’s costume? Michelle Clapton knows her stuff, so that tiny chain call back is deliberate. Not that Sansa is Cersei 2.0, just a call back that she’s learned from Cersei. Hardly any good things, mostly bad, very bad, things; and she seems determined not to be like Cersei. But she wants to have some power over herself. Not to be shipped here and there as a seal of an alliance. Her sister would agree.

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    95. Inga:
      kevin1989,

      Jaime is the only living man who knew Jon’s true father in person and admired him – he would be able to give Jon some perspective.

      Not so. Varys has served several Westerosi kings, including Aerys, and would have spent considerable time in Rhaegar’s company. He too could provide insights.

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    96. Where is my prodigal son Theon??? Probably still off on his rescue mission in E1, but I’m getting worried that we’ve had zero hype on the windup of his arc. Have we even had confirmation that Alfie appears in S8 at all? I don’t think I’ve seen a single interview.

      If all we get is a third-party report that he gave his life trying to save Yara, I may have to torch the whole damn studio. Burn them all!

      Okay, I’m mixing my metaphors, but I do that sometimes when I get upset…

        Quote  Reply

    97. talvikorppi,

      Jon is definitely outside Winterfell and it’s all happening before the battle: there’s no blood on the snow, no corpses. So, I assume that he’s supervising construction of some extra defenses like trenches and/or firepits, when something happens making him look back. Sure, it may be just a random glance towards the future battlefield or Jon may be spotting some newcommers, like Jaime or the survivors from the Wall or any other refugees. However, it can also be his majesty the Night King. Anyway, I would put this still into early Ep 3 or late Ep 2.

      As for Arya, the man behind her is definitely a brother of the Night’s Watch and the position of his hand implies that he might be blowing a horn. This lines up with Arya’s facial expression: she’s looking upwards – presumably to the Night King flying towards Winterfell on undead Viserion; there’s a bit of fear ir her eyes, but mostly determination. Also, behind her there is one Karstark soldier in a chainmail gorget and that typical Karstark coat. And the man on the other side might be an Ironborn: no sigil, but his armor looks similar to the one we saw on the leaked photos of “corpses”. So, once again the still can be attributed to Ep3.

      Varys is looking up, too. So, potentially his photo can be atributed to the same sequence of the reactions towards the Night King’s arrival: here he comes and everyone starts looking up or towards him contemplating on “now is the hour” or “all the clever plans go to hell due to Force Majeure”. Could be rather dramatic, I imagine.

      PC. Congratulations to you and your nephew on passing the driving exam (I’ve never made it:).

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    98. talvikorppi: Sansa is no Cersei, but she wants to have power on her own. Like her sister does. She’s no sword-wielding ASNAWP, but she has political power and some nous on how to use it.

      Let’s try this again.
      I think Sansa is positioning somewhere between Margory and Cersei.
      AKA QOT, Stark version.

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    99. Grail King,

      I have often thought that – then I would wonder if Cersei and Margery were really that different. Cersei succeeded in grabbing power and Margery did not but they had a lot in common.

        Quote  Reply

    100. Firannion,

      Thanks for bringing it up. I haven’t forgotten about Varys. However, there are two things to consider. First of all, Varys clearly disapproved on Rhaegar’s actions. He made it clear back in S4, when he said that after seeing what passion did to the realm, he became quite happy about being unable to pursue any carnal desires himself.

      Secondly, Varys will have to answer some questions regarding Robert’s Rebellion. Did he know that Rhaegar married Lyanna? Who presented the Starks as rebels to the Mad King? Did he know about Jon? Was there a place for him in his schemes, etc.? IMO, Varys knew about Jon’s existence: when he was talking to Ned back in S1, he mentioned him his “bastard”, which implies that Varys was keeping an eye on Jon.

      One way or another, I don’t see Varys breifing Jon about his real father. Jaime is much more appropriate for that role. Or they might be having a conversation on some other things, but I really feel like some tete-a-tete between Jaime and Jon is inevitable to mirror and wrap the exchange they had in S1Ep1.

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    101. Inga,

      I also expect important exchanges between Jon and Jaime. Both are GOT heroes.

      Jon is the lead on the magic side of the story. Jaime is the lead on the human side of the story. Tyrion is an important link between the two sides and perhaps the overall lead of the joint story.

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    102. I was just thinking it’s starting to sink in that yesterday was the last time we’ll get production stills for a new GoT season ever 😯

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    103. 4.
      That Jaime photo… Where do I even start?

      That smile, that glint in the eye? *Swoon* He must be looking at Brienne.

      I have my head canon and will not accept any different. Forget Jon&Dany, Jaime&Brienne is the ultimate love story of ASoIaF/GoT. Knowing GRRM, it won’t end well. Jaime is DOOMED. I mean, even if he saves Bran’s life, gets absolution from Bran… But nah. Cersei will be his doom, his death. Karma. What a bitch.

      So Jaime and Brienne can’t get married and live on Tarth, of which Brienne is the heir, and produce many babies, who turn out to be amazing warriors and knights. Boys and girls. Jaime would be a bit of a softie with the girls (“Just like your mother…”), a bit harsher on the boys, the boys being harsh on him, what with his history… But none of that will ever happen because Jaime will DIE.

      The beard, though. I’m gonna embarras myself by going yes! yes! Yes! That wet me knickers.

      And the longer hair. And the battered, plain armour. No Lannister colours. Looks pretty similar to what Robb wore. Is Jaime turning northerner?

      Of course not. He’s a westerman. But he will fight the real war. I hope he brings some troops with him. Like Ed Sheeran’s troup of lovely, nice Lannister soldiers, haha.

      The show, obviously, can’t get inside Jaime’s head, and they’ve suspended his character development for years. TBF, GRRM has also suspended his character development for years, nearly decades.

      One final thing I want to say about Jaime. Some of you fellow WotWers might remember how I went total apeshit after S7E7, Jaime leaving Kings Landing on a BLACK horse. Up until then, Jaime always rode a white horse.

      Go and check it, from S1E1 to S7E6. Jaime’s horse is always white. A joke on the knight in shining armour on a white charger. That’s why the black horse in S7E7 was so hugely important.

      Jaime will not try to appear a knight, he’s past appearences, but perhaps he’ll actually BE a knight. And die.

      At least we got that glint in the eye, that smile. Thank you, Ser Jaime.

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    104. Inga,

      I certainly agree that a conversation between Jaime and Jon about Rhaegar would be appropriate, and I hope the writers have made time for it. Jon will be hungry to know more about both his parents.

      As for Varys, we still don’t know how much he knew about Rhaegar’s plot to depose the Mad King. I don’t think the TV show has made it clear that the tourney at Harrenhal was an excuse for the conspirators to meet far from Aerys’ gaze. And I think it’s only in the books that Aerys gets wind that something funny is up and decides to attend the tourney after all. Who aroused his suspicions? The all-knowing Spider is the obvious suspect – perhaps too obvious.

      Complicating matters is the fact that in the books, Varys’ motives aren’t simply ‘the good of the realm.’ He makes it clear, as he’s having Pycelle and Kevan killed, that his agenda is to keep things off-balance (in the Littlefinger mode) until he can install his protégé – presumably to restore the Blackfyres to power. All far too complex for TV!

      My take is that Varys admired Rhaegar but disapproved of him running off with Lyanna. There could be a talk with Jon around this as well.

        Quote  Reply

    105. talvikorppi,

      Geez! Jaime will not die. Keep the faith!

      Of course, no-one is sure what will happen. For me there are at least 3 feasible possibilities: (i) Jaime becomes King; (ii) Jaime moves to Tarth (iii) Jaime dies fighting. I have listed them in my order of probability. Yours are different – that is what makes this so interesting.

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    106. Mango,

      I’m with T, I think Jaime will die, after doing hopefully many heroic deeds.

      Firannion,

      Love these posts! Your enthusiasm is palpable . Stoked!

      Inga,

      I also agree with you here. Jaime will have insight for Jon into his father’s nature. Whether Jon wants to let Jamie in close is another story altogether…

      I’m imagining the converstion:

      Jaime: *whispers* remember what I said about pokeche pokeche?

      Jon: yeah. Cool stuff!

      Jaime: *reaches out with golden hand* Good. I’m gonna touch you now

        Quote  Reply

    107. Mango:

      Geez! Jaime will not die. Keep the faith!

      Of course, no-one is sure what will happen. For me there are at least 3 feasible possibilities: (i) Jaime becomes King; (ii) Jaime moves to Tarth (iii) Jaime dies fighting.I have listed them in my order of probability. Yours are different – that is what makes this so interesting.

      I’m all for (ii) Jaime moves to Tarth, with Brienne etc. etc. I’m just trying to prepare myself for my favourite character not surviving. OK? I’ve been mourning for Jaime since 2014, when I first got into the GoT fandom.

      That’s how doomed he is. Snif.

      It’s all right for Arya or Sansa or whatever fans, others. But knowing your favourite will DIE does def put a dampener on everything, even S8.

        Quote  Reply

    108. talvikorppi,

      Look at it this way: Would you rather have Jaime spend a night of passion with Brienne and die heroically– or kowtow to Cersei and wither away into old age as a cuckolded kingslayer?

        Quote  Reply

    109. talvikorppi,

      Okay, I will keep the faith on my own then!

      Sister Kisser,

      You too? Okay, I am on my own.

      Like everyone I have heard the chatter re Jaime’s story and a heroic death may be the way it goes. However, his story seems to be one that the writer trying to do the most with – and for that reason, it is my favorite storyline. For me, Jaime is the character that shows a writer trying to do something interesting and layered – ambitious. My favorite actor is actually Dink/ Tyrion but his story has less “stuff” in it in terms of “ambition”. Jon and Daenerys are the characters with the least ambitious stories. Sansa also has a story with some ambition as far as the writer goes. You know, death may be an interesting way to end it but I think it does not serve Jaime story that well.

        Quote  Reply

    110. I’ve read all of the posts so far but can’t remember if it’s been said… probably… I think all of the indoor photos of Daenerys, Sansa, Brienne and Davos are from ONE scene in the great hall. It could be possible that Jaime’s is too, but the fireplace lighting seems to indicate otherwise.

        Quote  Reply

    111. SO READY FOR THIS!!!

      The shot of Jon and Dany beyond-the-wall-ish – might be the scenery, but reminds me of the spot Viserion died. Could they have flown to confirm his corpse was gone?

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    112. talvikorppi,

      “Then Arya. Needle. Check. Valyrian steel Catspaw dagger. Check. Fur cape leaving her left arm free. Check. (Surely all her opponents would twig to her left-handedness immediately with that kind of garb, so she loses her advantage, the element of surprise. Huhm.)”

      Ask Brienne about that – and how she wound up with a blade inches from her throat in Arya’s right hand.

      ASNAWP = ambidextrous

        Quote  Reply

    113. Mango,

      You make a great point, and I agree- his story is ambitious, and was my favorite as well, while reading the books. NCW has done a great job with the character, despite perhaps being sidelined some on the show. (I was hoping he would have bounced on Cersei a long time ago, but I realize the showrunners put that off till this season to serve the story for the tv series, and it makes sense).
      Back to your point- It does seem like he needs a greater resolve, given the course of his arc so far, I just think the show will be limited on who they can focus on. A few conversations between Jaime and Brienne, Jon, Bran, the stark girl’s, the hound… a couple battle sequences and a heroic/tragic death could be enough to give him a satisfying end on this medium. Bonus would be consummating his love for Brienne and perhaps leaving this world having planted the seed for a little boy or girl (Twins?) that can grow up on the sapphire isle and read the tales of their father in the great book of the kingsguard. A bit sappy, yeah. But could be cool.

      Big question mark for me is if he survives WF and heads south, meeting the golden Company and Cersei in KL or en route to KL- how does that play out? Does he kill his sister? Does he die in the process? does he end up commanding the golden company in the final battle? Lots of possibilities, yet not a ton of screentime.

        Quote  Reply

    114. Aegon the IceDragon,
      That shot of Jon and Dany I do not believe is from EP1, Dany’s hair is slightly different and she’s wearing a white fluffy shouldered shawl while she doesn’t have it walking into WF. James Hibberd from EW said the first scene is the scene from the teasers Jon and Dany walking into WF and being greeted by the Starks

      kevin1989,
      Michelle Clapton said this during a interview about the S7 coat “It was the first time that I could remember that Dany had put herself in danger that is not necessarily for personal gain, so the white was this sense of purity,” said costume designer Clapton (a three-time Emmy winner for “Game of Thrones” and last year’s winner for “The Crown”). “It had an honesty to it…she has fallen in love with Jon.”

        Quote  Reply

    115. The Good Waif,

      Agreed, Dany definitely would not be showing in the first month of her pregnancy, it’s only in the second trimester 3-6 months that women start to show, the coat is quite in fact looser than her original white coat in S7 so there is definitely “room to grow” for when she does start to show

        Quote  Reply

    116. Firannion: Complicating matters is the fact that in the books, Varys’ motives aren’t simply ‘the good of the realm.’ He makes it clear, as he’s having Pycelle and Kevan killed, that his agenda is to keep things off-balance (in the Littlefinger mode) until he can install his protégé – presumably to restore the Blackfyres to power. All far too complex for TV!

      That doesn’t sound very complex…it’s just the same stuff all the other schemers are doing, LF 2.0

        Quote  Reply

    117. Mel,

      Actually, what Dany has on looks exactly like the white coat she’s wearing in the 2019 teaser of her being welcomed by Sansa. Including, the silver chain that’s running across her body from right shoulder to left side. I still believe that we will get a scene of Sansa and others having discussions in Winterfell, “preparing” for the arrival of Jon & Dany but the first scene may be Jon & Dany having their discussion in the North about how to handle their approach. He has to prepare her for the fact the North may not be immediately accepting especially if she swoops in on Drogon trying to intimidate them. They need to ride in together showing a unified front.

        Quote  Reply

    118. And that loving look that Dany is giving to Jon is probably after he tells her “again” that the North will come to see her and love her as he has. Nothing like a little sweet talk to warm a lady’s heart and remove any doubt or apprehension.

        Quote  Reply

    119. Sister Kisser,

      Yes, these are interesting questions.

      I do not watch a lot of TV and so might completely misjudge what can happen in the time given – but I think they have sufficient time for a few interesting things to be covered including the questions you have there.

      For me, maybe because I find their stories boring, a big question is how much time do they need for Jon & Daenerys. If Season 8 is a Targ restoration then I cannot imagine why they would need more than 3 episodes to do that. It would be a very short season. As expected they met and had sex already, so now they are a couple.

      We start Season 8 with the reconciliations and reunions. Then we have a big war with the dead. Then we have defeat of Cersei and the aftermath. There are still 3 episodes left. Even if the Targs marry then there is lots of time in 6 episodes for lots of stuff. Plus the final season must have a lot of NCW, Dink and Lena – these are the actors HBO/D&D rely on for product quality.

      Anyway, on the questions I think Cersei goes out on her own terms.

        Quote  Reply

    120. I also just noticed the background on Jamie’s pic is blurred out and nobody really standing behind him. If these pics are all from the first episode (or 2), there’s no way he could arrive to Winterfell as quickly as Jon & Dany traveling by boat. His pic may not be at Winterfell. Could he be at Hot Pie’s Inn (seems the only one they show recently) and could he end up being greeted by our favorite sellsword, Bronn, who will join him on his journey North??? That devlish swashbuckling look of admiration Jamie is giving could be for Bronn…

        Quote  Reply

    121. talvikorppi,

      Congratulations on the driving triumph. It’s a great milestone for a young person and he was fortunate to have auntie for guidance. Also, thank you for the 3-part analysis of the photos. I thought your assessments quite accurate.

      Mango,

      “Jon is the lead on the magic side of the story. Jaime is the lead on the human side of the story. Tyrion is an important link between the two sides and perhaps the overall lead of the joint story.”

      Jon yes, Jaime no. He’s very important, of course, but he’s mainly there as the male military Lannister and has a Romeo Juliet love story. I like him and don’t want him to die, but the three leads are undoubtedly Jon, Dany (also magic) and Tyrion (non-magic). The next tier of main characters is Cersei, Jaime, Arya and Sansa, and Bran this season. IMO, Jaime is a brilliant character,and arguably has the greyest and most intriguing arc. But he’s neither Ice nor Fire. Good point about Tyrion as the link. He’s may be the most interesting political player and truly has straddled the three key factions. What GRRM probably likes in him is that he is THE best example of the human heart in conflict with itself.

      Clob,

      “Yeah, no, definitely not pissed off. Maisie probably has the most expressive accurate face on the show. You can pull any past scene and look at her expression to what was just said or seen and it will match. This picture of her is one of mostly non-expression… merely listening to someone talking or scanning the area.”

      I think when she’s targeting someone or in an intense or complex situation, she goes into a No One pokerface. You’re right about the non-expression. But she’s looking up slightly and her wide eyes may indicate she sees something gripping or surprising. I expect in Winterfell she’s going to have many such moments with auld acquaintances long forgot reappearing.

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    122. Clob,

      There is a big stone lip that runs across the front of the photo with seemingly darkness below, looks too big to be a staircase and would show the step risers…..I’m probably wringing too much out of these photos aren’t I

        Quote  Reply

    123. Inga:
      Jack Bauer 24,

      I don’t remember exactly, but it seems to me that they used to realease two series of stills, no? Maybe, we’ll get something more in a week or so.

      Yeah the stills seem to trickle out, but I meant the first official wave of stills.

        Quote  Reply

    124. Stark Raven’ Rad,

      In the comment, I did not include all the characters that have played the lead in the series. The comment was in response to a discussion of Jon and Jaime. In this series, the lead has shifted over the seasons. At various times, Ned, Tywin, Joff could have been considered lead for parts of a season or all.

      Given how the paychecks are reported – it would appear that the top 5 are Tyrion, NCW, Lena, Kit and Emilia.

      To me, as characters – Tyrion is probably the overall lead as he is the linking character. Leads On the magic side – Jon and Daenerys and Leads On the human side: Jaime and Cersei.

      Jaime is a special character as he embodies many of the writer’s themes and is the greyest character. (A writer does not pour so much into a minor player.) Tyrion’s is interesting but has played a smaller role for the last few seasons…

      Sansa is also important on the human side because she also still has some greyness. Bran and Arya are their own version of magic.

        Quote  Reply

    125. Mel:
      Jack Bauer 24,

      Do you remember the timeline for the character posters, is it usually after the season poster but before the trailer or latter the trailer?

      For Season 6 it was the same day as the season poster February 24th 2016 http://watchersonthewall.com/game-of-thrones-teasing-season-6-with-the-hall-of-faces-and-more/

      For last season it was actually the same day as the second trailer June 21st 2017. So about a month after the season poster and first trailer http://watchersonthewall.com/character-posters-game-thrones-season-7-revealed/

        Quote  Reply

    126. costello: That doesn’t sound very complex…it’s just the same stuff all the other schemers are doing, LF 2.0

      Too complex in the sense that the TV version has entirely cut out the fAegon subplot and the question of whether Young Griff really is the baby-swapped heir to the throne, a Blackfyre descendant in whom Varys has taken an interest (possibly as a blood relative) or someone else. D & D just can’t go there, so they opt for a more vanilla Varys.

      But he might still have some guilty secret in his past – possibly related to Rhaegar – that will get him toasted in S8.

        Quote  Reply

    127. Mel:
      Jack Bauer 24,

      Do you remember the timeline for the character posters, is it usually after the season poster but before the trailer or latter the trailer?

      I replied with some links, but it’s sitting in moderation so I won’t include the links this time.

      Season 6 character posters were the same day as the season poster, which released on February 24th, 2016. That was 13 days before the first trailer on March 9th, 2016.

      Season 7 character posters released on June 21st, 2017, which was the same day as the second trailer. That was about a month after the season poster and first trailer, which released May 23rd and May 24th, 2017 respectively.

        Quote  Reply

    128. Aegon the IceDragon,

      Agree to disagree but Dany is most definitely not wearing the white shawl in the teaser and I do think they are gonna drop Dany right into the northern fray with only off screen preparation for more drama. Also the shoot looks like Iceland to me and they look exactly the same as the EW covershoot which was the shot from Iceland and I doubt they spent all that money flying only Kit and Emilia to Iceland for them to film a simple chat especially when they don’t normally use Iceland for the north only usually beyond the wall, no the Iceland filming is gonna be more important than that. Also if you look at Jon’s clothes, they too are different compared to the S8 TV Guide photo where he wears his typical dark thick clothes with the almost diamond Criss crosses while in these pictures his top is a smooth light pale brown with a dragon scale belt. So i’m Think EP 3-4 actually which wouldn’t be much of a stretch considering when we first got the S7 Images we got one of Dany from EP 3. Here is the image comparisons http://imgur.com/a/a40DU26

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    129. Aegon the IceDragon,

      Dany’s coat is indeed the same as in her arrival scene; however, in the stills she has a white fur collar (or just a piece of white fur on her shoulder) and that one is definitely absent in the arrival scene. Moreover, there is no real need for Jon & Dany to discuss whether she will be accepted in the North or that she shouldn’t come to Winterfell on the dragon back or anything like that. All the setup was established last season and repetition would be excessive. And the reports also say that the first scene of the season will be arrival to Winterfell. Therefore, the stills must be from some different scene which will take place later in the season, maybe, even from the finale, cause I can’t imagine Jon & Dany going to the Lands of Always Winter for any other reason, than finishing some business with the Night King.

        Quote  Reply

    130. Looks like Arya is looking at dragons based on her pupils. The light is shaped like a dragon flying with open wings on the left eye when you zoom in. Looks like a dragon on each side or could be my right side of the brain turned on. She also looks like her wheels are spinning, she’s processing something. I HOPE this is not John, Hound, or Gendry! I need to see tears and a big bear hug for John at the very least.
      Cersei’s pic is a work of art, she’s so hard to read. Looks lonely, defeated, but then again it could be the opposite, she could be planning her next blast.

        Quote  Reply

    131. Firannion,

      Sure, I fully expect a talk between Jon (& Dany) and Varys. IMO, last leason Varys almost straightforwardly admitted that he was responsible for the deaths of Jon’s mathernal grandfather and uncle. Think of it: in Ep2 and 3 we are repeatedly reminded that the Starks were burbed alive, and in Ep5 Varys laments on finding the traitors and watching them burn, telling himself “I’m not the one who’s doing that”.

      Sure, the books will handle it in a different way, but the show has to simplify things. Therefore, I assume that Varys will be revealed to be responsible for the death of the Starks and the entire rebellion and that will be the cause of his demise.

        Quote  Reply

    132. Mel,

      Thank’s for the comparison. I have been saying the same for some time already, but seeing is much better. I have aslo noticed a curious detail in the cover of EW: Jon has some sort of a brooch (?) on his shoulder. As for the belt, it might be the same just as his lether jacket. But his Stark brigandine is definitely gone and I really wonder under what circumstances Jon is gonna be stripped of his body armor.

        Quote  Reply

    133. Mel,

      BTW, I just checked: Jon was definitely wearing his brigandine in Dubrovnik – presumably for Ep4 shots. So, it really looks like Jon without brigandine should appear later. My guess is that these stills are from the finale.

        Quote  Reply

    134. Okay, so after staring at them for much longer in more detail on my computer with the bigger-sized photos, I agree that Arya doesn’t look pissed off. She looks surprised to be honest, but is controlling it masterfully. I wonder if it is the first time she clocks Sandor. I also agree it looks like a night’s watchman (damnit, calling them that makes me want to go read a nights watch Terry Pratchett book) behind her might not fit with that timeline. Though I suppose the Night’s Watch may bring news of the wall’s fall to Winterfell before Dany and Jon arrive (or any people still at Castle Black may abandon it to come to fight at Wintefell – would be cool if Edd rocks up near the beginning of the episode).

      Also, the picture with Dany where I thought she was smiling, is actually a pretty sad expression on the bigger screen. She looks very emotional – a similar expression to when she was sitting at Jon’s bedside and they were discussing Viserion’s death or when he pledged to bend the knee to her. She’s wearing a different outfit to the arrival at Winterfell (and Ten Bears, I agree, amazing outfit!! My favourite of hers I think) – so perhaps she has proven herself to the north and they are pledging to her too or she is being told a pretty revealing secret about the Targ line of succession (though hopefully that blow won’t be dealt in the packed great hall).

      It’s interestkng that behind Davos and Brienne there are Unsullied. I don’t know why they would stand guard in the great hall. Yeah, have some bodyguards, but lining the hall? Seems a bit like overkill. Not sure what would lead to that unless there is a lot of hostility and drama (which I think we’re all predicting at first anyway so maybe not too surprising). On second thoughts, it could be a meeting around one table, which might explain guards lining the walls of the room (rather than court being held with all the lords gathered). Perhaps the Jaime and Brienne shots are from that same shot?

      It looks like Bran and Sam’s pictures lit by candlelight are from the same shot. I wonder if it’s Sam coming to ask him if he has figured out how to tell Jon yet.

      Also, regarding Cersei’s lack of a baby bump – I actually think she doesn’t look as slender as usual and that that shot may be from an early episode – only a few weeks after we last saw her (when she definitely didn’t look pregnant). I don’t think this indicates she has lost the baby at this point – though I also don’t think she’ll have one, I just don’t think these pictures prove she’s lost it already.

      I still love that picture of Sansa. I don’t know why. Her expression is amazing and she looks stunningly beautiful. Lady of Winterfell indeed!!

      Ps. I really want to see Brienne smile!!! It seems that all we’ve seen from her in recent years is that very severe expression she’s pulling. Aside from a mutual, parental smile with Sandor about Arya’s ninja skills (sorry guys, I forget what all the letter stand for… or indeed what they all are) and the smile she gives Arya after sparring with her, we haven’t seen her happy in a while. Hope Jaime is smiling at her so we get a smile back. I want her to be happy!

        Quote  Reply

    135. Inga,

      No problem, I agree about the shoulder in the EW covershoot there is definitely something on his cloak which is a weird pattern but looks like it’s being blurred out so I can’t tell what it is. Agree the about The gorget and if you look longclaw also can’t be seen in both the Photoshoot and the new promo pictures. So whether they are, Jon has either lost longclaw or they aren’t expecting any company

        Quote  Reply

    136. Che,

      She could also be hearing about her baby Viserion being enslaved by the Night King by Bran with him following it by “saying your the only one who can kill him, just think of it like when you put your husband out of his misery when he too was a mindless husk” i’m Thinking that is gonna be something this season that is gonna hurt Dany badly

        Quote  Reply

    137. Inga,

      Yeah I was thinking EP 4 – EP 6 for these shots, them going beyond the wall must be important and I can’t see them leaving when they are at at WF leaving it vulnerable to attack

        Quote  Reply

    138. Che: I also agree it looks like a night’s watchman (damnit, calling them that makes me want to go read a nights watch Terry Pratchett book)

      Any excuse to go reread one of the Night’s Watch Discworld volumes is a good one!

      And that makes me dream of a crossover project. I wonder if Rhianna Pratchett could be persuaded to allow GRRM to write a short story teleporting Sam Vimes into Flea Bottom. He should at the very least put some street hawker named Dibbler there. Nothing like a bowl o’ brown to wash down rats onna stick!

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    139. Firannion: Any excuse to go reread one of the Night’s Watch Discworld volumes is a good one!

      And that makes me dream of a crossover project. I wonder if Rhianna Pratchett could be persuaded to allow GRRM to write a short story teleporting Sam Vimes into Flea Bottom. He should at the very least put some street hawker named Dibbler there. Nothing like a bowl o’ brown to wash down rats onna stick!

      I am sure there is crossover fan fiction out there – there must be right?? If not, you’re on to a catchy idea there! I’d read it 😁

      If I start to reread one Discworld novel, I tend to go overboard and devour whole sets of them and I find it hard to stop because I enjoy them too much. My pattern tends to go – the watch, the witches and finish with the wizards, then dabble around the remaining ones – it can be all I read for a year or more, so I hate to say that me and Discworld are on a break right now. I’m considering rereading ASOIAF before season 8 comes out (last time I devoured them all in a couple of months – so it’s just about doable… though I did have fewer children then… so maybe not).

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    140. Jack Bauer 24,

      Yes, indeed. Pretty much identical.

      He appears to still be wearing the leathers he had on when he left King’s Landing. But the armour definitely mimics Robb’s, suggesting it may have come from the Winterfell armoury.

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    141. Che,

      “Ps. I really want to see Brienne smile!!! It seems that all we’ve seen from her in recent years is that very severe expression she’s pulling. Aside from a mutual, parental smile with Sandor about Arya’s ninja skills (sorry guys, I forget what all the letter stand for… or indeed what they all are) and the smile she gives Arya after sparring with her, we haven’t seen her happy in a while.”

      _______
      As a public service, I’m more than happy to remind you of Arya’s acronym (courtesy – begrudgingly- of talvikorppi ™️):

      A = Arya
      S = Super
      N = Ninja
      A = Assassin
      W = Warrior
      P = Princess

      = ASNAWP !!!

      👸🏻 🗡🔪

        Quote  Reply

    142. Che,

      “She’s [Dany’s] wearing a different outfit to the arrival at Winterfell (and Ten Bears, I agree, amazing outfit!! My favourite of hers I think)….”

      _______
      Yeah, I’m liking that new outfit too! Sort of has a Northern-Night’s Watch-Stark vibe to it. My personal preference: it sure beats the snow white flight suit.

        Quote  Reply

    143. Clob,

      Hey, I actually prepared an updated Lexicon some time ago. Maybe I’ll submit it to the Gods (aka Sue et al) and see if they want to incorporate it.

      Of course, ASNAWP will be included since it’s become part of our “language.”

        Quote  Reply

    144. talvikorppi,

      “Forget Jon&Dany, Jaime&Brienne is the ultimate love story of ASoIaF/GoT.”

      ——–
      💯%

      I rewatch in storyline segments as opposed to episodes.

      It’s nothing short of brilliant how the show started out with Jaime mocking and insulting Brienne – calling her a “beast” when he first saw her; then deliberately trying to hurt her feelings when they first set off on their journey to KL; then learning to respect and admire her; then confiding in her in that iconic [and I’d say erotic] bathtub scene; then deciding to rescue her from the bear pit; then those words between them with so much unspoken in S6e7 [when she offers to return Oathkeeper but he says “it will always be yours”♥️]; to where they are now.

      I think in one of NCW’s recent interviews

      he even attributed to Brienne his new-found honor and his courage to break from Cersei.

      Anyway, during my “Jaime & Brienne” story rewatch, contrast the very first time he saw her in S2e7, to their mutual affection four seasons later. (I didn’t even include my favorite scene of all, because it was over in two-three seconds: the look on his face in S5 when the ship captain points out that the land mass in the distance is Tarth, the Salphire Isle.)

      Anyway, here’s Jaime’s first encounter with Brienne….

      from S2e7 (Catelyn, accompanied by Brienne, visits recaptured prisoner Jaime)

      Jaime: “Come to say goodbye, Lady Stark? I believe it’s my last night in this world. (Looks at Brienne) Is that a woman?”

      Catelyn: “Do you hear them out there? They want your head.”

      Jaime: “Old Lord Karstark doesn’t seem to like me.”

      Cat: “You strangled his son with your chains.”

      Jaime: “Oh.”

      Cat: “Oh?”

      Jaime: “Was he the one on guard duty? He was in my way. Any knight would have done the same.”

      Cat: “You are no knight. You have forsaken every vow you ever took.”

      Jaime: “So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the king, obey the king, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the king? What if the king massacres the innocent? It’s too much. No matter what you do, you’re forsaking one vow or another…Where did you find this beast?”

      Cat: “She is a truer knight than you will ever be, Kingslayer.”

      Jaime: “‘Kingslayer.’ What a king he was.
      Here’s to Aerys Targaryen, the Second of His Name, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, Protector of the Realm, and to the sword I shoved in his back.”

      Cat: “You are a man without honor.”

      _______________

      S6e8: Brienne (to Jaime): “You’re a knight, Ser Jaime. I know there is honor in you. I’ve seen it myself.”

      (to be cont.)

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    145. talvikorppi,

      Here’s the scene I love that’s over in a flash, but Jaime’s expression conveys so much..,.

      (S5e4 Jaime on deck of Dorne-bound ship, noticing land mass in the distance)

      Jaime: “Is that Estermont?”
      Captain: “Tarth, Ser Jaime. The Sapphire Isle.”

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    146. talvikorppi,

      PS GRRM was a writer and co-producer for many years on the TV series “Beauty and the Beast,” I have to wonder if subconsciously or deliberately, he reversed the genders and incorporated some of that into the story of Brienne the Beauty and the sh*tbag she redeems.

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    147. Stark Raven’ Rad,

      On the ice and fire – I fully agree that Jaime is neither fire nor ice. Neither is Tyrion, nor Sansa nor Arya. Fire and Ice are Jon and/or Daenerys. That said, songs in this story tend to be about dead heroes. There was a conversation btw Cat and another character about songs about the dead in wars. This story that we are seeing is called the “Song of Ice and Fire “is likely about dead heroes. Expect ice and fire to exit at the end of the story – perhaps dead.

      I do not think only fire and ice are lead characters. (There is a lead group of at least 5 from the paychecks contracted. I commented already on these.) In LOTR, Frodo and Gandalf are important but so are the others in the fellowship. GOT also has a fellowship to fight the dead – I think at least the guys with Valyrian swords, Tyrion and all the magic folks are in the fellowship. They are not set up like LOTR but they are now together at the end of Season 7. Also, the political story and characters are much more important in GOT than LOTR.

      LOTR has a Jesus-like magic character with the main quest against the evil (Frodo) that has a special relationship with the most important provider of magic against the dead (Gandalf). In GOT, the Jesus character is Jon with a focus on the white walkers and the biggest provider of magic against the dead is Daenerys. It is not surprising that Jon and Daenerys are a couple. Daenerys main purpose is not political – her main purpose if the fire against the dead.

      If GRRM wants to do a Targ restoration he can with Jon/Daenerys taking the crown by conquest after the war with the AOTD. But he could go for a more interesting end.

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    148. Ten Bears,

      It is not subconscious – it is deliberate! GRRM told Gwen Christie that Jaime and Brienne are a Beauty & Beast with a twist.

      Do they survive? GRRM did one B&B version in which the beast died. For my own amusement, I think in this version B&B live on together.

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    149. I haven’t read all the comments, so, my apologies if someone already said it: Dany in the first pic with Jon, wears this small red scarf around her neck, if you zoom in, you can see it covered by her hair, like the one she had in the teaser clip with Sansa. So probably this is set just before they arrive in Winterfell..and they probably looking at it in that pic.
      In the second pic with her and Jon, she has a white fur over her coat, so that should be a different scene.

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    150. Shelle: Sansa “Resting B**ch-Face” Stark. xD

      Well, I suppose “RBF” is her default expression. Not all her (Sophie’s) fault though.
      I kind of wish the story would include more of the scenes like on the battlements with Arya at the end of S7e7. It showed a warm, empathetic. smiling Sansa. (So did her giggling in S7e4 in her reunion with Arya in the Crypts when she thought Arya’s List was a big joke. Guess again. 😬)

      I am NOT comparing and I am NOT Sansa-bashing. I just can’t help noticing that despite all the traumas Arya has suffered, she still gets to let out a laugh and toss out zinger punch lines now and then. Even if, for example, her hysterical double- laughter in S4e8 at the absurdity of traveling all the way to the Bloody Gate to be ransomed to her Aunt Lysa only to learn that she too was dead – and then to laugh some more when she turned and saw the look of disappointment on Sandor’s face. Or responding to Gendry’s warning, “You shouldn’t insult people that are bigger than you” with the perfectly-timed comeback: “Then I wouldn’t get to insult anyone.” Oh, and of course, outwitting Jaqen by giving him his own name and insisting: “I’m not joking. A Man can go kill himself.”

      I am not a book reader. Perhaps GRRM wrote Sansa to be devoid of any joyful emotions because of the travails she had to endure.

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    151. Mango:
      Ten Bears,

      It is not subconscious – it is deliberate! GRRM told Gwen Christie that Jaime and Brienne are a Beauty & Beast with a twist. …..

      Thanks for the information/confirmation. So I guess it wasn’t coincidence in S2e7 when Jaime asks Catelyn (about Brienne): “Where did you find this beast?”

      I’ve loved their love story because it developed gradually and organically over five seasons.

      (Maybe that’s why I feel by comparison, Dany & Jon going from berating each other and questioning each other’s entitlement to rule in S7e3, to becoming all lovey dovey without saying a word a mere four episodes later, seemed a bit … forced, if that’s the right word.

      Or maybe I’m just a sucker for romances that develop from gradually revealing each other’s inner emotions through words and dispelling initial impressions, rather than a quick: “She’s cute and single. He’s cute and single. They should hook up ASAP!”

      (Another commenter likened Jon & Dany’s boat sex hookup to a college booty call, or something like that.)

      Again, I am NOT criticizing the showrunners. Not having Jon & Dany meet until midway through S7 didn’t allow for a “slow burn”, eg with gradually more intimate conversations reflecting their growing mutual attraction. (Though a one- or two-minute scene of Dany confiding in Missandei might’ve been a nice follow-up to Missandei’s “many things” reference to her encounter with Grey Worm.)

      Sorry for babbling. What do I know? My perspective is colored by my own real world experiences.

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    152. I was debating in my mind whether to read this article in an effort to avoid any potential spoilers but then reached the conclusion the pics will almost certainly be from the premiere and likely all covered in the eventual trailer anyway. So here I am a couple of days late and there are already 250 comments, I can seriously foresee 300+ when the trailer comes in a few weeks!

      Must admit I a bit shocked that we got these so soon after the superbowl teaser, I would have assumed they would drop something now every 2-3 weeks until the premiere, perhaps a trailer could come sooner rather than later in that case?

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    153. Below is my interpretation of what is happening in each of the photos:
      Cersei – must be talking with either Qyburn or Euron, at a push it’s the Harry Strickland but doubtful in episode 1. I suspect she is mourning Jamie leaving her, she certainly looks unhappy. The only thing I can think of is she hears the news that the Wall has fallen and Jamie/the 7 kingsdoms are in grave danger now.
      Tyrion – looks concerned and unhappy. Why would he show that face? I have a feeling it’s do with Jamie receiving a hostile reception and not the wall falling. Most likely he is talking with Varys.
      Jon – he is definitely showing fondness here, possibly it’s Bran, it could be Arya too but this doesn’t look like his formal arrival so it could also be Sam or even Ghost. I rule out Sam because it doesn’t fit with the other picture of Lord Tarly.
      Arya – this is a puzzling one. I don’t believe she is looking at Jon otherwise there would be a lot more warmth. It could be a dragon and it could be Jon/Dany together hence the reservation. Also her eyes look funny here for me, not a flattering shot.
      Dany – so many potential emotions here, not sure if she is looking sad/humble or smug/arrogant. I think it’s more she is feeling unwelcome and trying to convince the Northerners she is not all bad. Definitely setting up some future drama here.
      Sansa – fairly certain this is a “you’re not welcome” look towards Dany and maybe even Jon, although he is still king of the North so that part is doubtful. I am guessing this is part of a formal get together in the big hall and they will also here the news of the wall falling here.
      Jamie – he looks like he could be a prisoner here, whilst he’s smirking it could be to Tyrion but definitely doesn’t look like he’s relaxed and happy. Only other person I think he could be interacting with here is Varys over the death of Tywin.
      Brienne – I think this is the same great hall scene we see Dany and Sansa, either she is reacting to the hostility between the two or news has come in about the wall falling. It could also be the capture of Jamie Lannister by Northern guards.
      Davos – I think this is the same great hall scene. Again he looks nervous and edgy, I don’t think this is a reaction between Dany and Sansa more the Wall falling or news about Jamie Lannister.
      Varys – in the courtyard at Winterfell, I’d guess he’s seeing Sansa.
      Bran – Definitely think he’s waiting to tell Jon about his parentage, guessing this is towards the end of the episode.
      Sam – this seems the most obvious one, he can only be smiling like that to meet Jon again, presumably to take him to see Bran and reveal his parentage and heir to the Iron Throne. This must be at the end of the episode.
      Jon/Dany – Clearly North of the wall. Now I think about it didn’t Watchers run an article that GOT was filming in Iceland? Must admit I thought this would be later in the season that the first two episodes but changed my mind now. They both look happy so I’d guess they don’t know about Jon’s parentage at this stage, but then why are they there alone and presumably they’ve flown drogon which is risky given the Night King could be out there with his homing javelins.

      Feel free to shoot me down fellow contributors!

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    154. maybe seeing Sansa between Margery and Cersei ignores her history as a victim of sadists a bit too much, doesn’t it? while C and M acitively use their attractivity when needed for the game, Sansa is abused when needed for the game.

      on the photos: the one that triggered me the most is the one of Jamie. first of all, his “smile” reminded me of the conversation with Cat when he admitted his attempt to kill Bran. i think it was that scene. it’s more of a tortured smile than a happy one.

      being in northern armor makes sense. especially if there’s a clash with Cersei’s troops ahead and you don’t want to be mistaken for a KL-loyalist by the own allies.

      and then, what is that thing he has south of his right elbow? some sort of sword prosthetic? wouldn’t make much sense, as he needs flexible wrists for using a sword. why does this guy always grow a beard and change the look of his right arm when he comes north?

      finally, i want to thank everyone who leaves no opportunity to kidnap any thread for trailer release date speculation. thank you so much! you make following discussions the biggest fun, and your knowledge of the history of tv-marketing is admirable.

      still, the trailer is served when Lady Olenna wants it to be served, so could you stop the distractions please?

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    155. stef666:
      Dark Sister,

      Mel told Varys he is going to die last season. As I don’t see Varys dying in battle, Arya killing him sounds very plausible.

      Not it’s that plausible really. As someone else said it’s right back from one of the first ever episodes and I don’t think she even knew who was talking at that point plus linked to an arc from the books that never made the show. Also I don’t see Arya randomly killing people who are guests of her big brother at Winterfell unless she sees them as a threat.

      In my opinion if Varys dies it will either be by the White Walkers (assuming Winterfell is over run) or by Dany/Cersei for turning against them.

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    156. Dark Sister:
      Aegon the IceDragon,

      OOoo I kinda like the idea of her eavesdropping on some plans to depose Dany and/or Jon. Either way, I would like it if Arya and Dany form a bond.

      Also in the words of JvN quoting Dany: where are…..my dragooons? Last year we had that awesome photo of Dany on Drogon at the Loot Train Attack, but no dragon photo this time around? Maybe it would give away too much.

      In a slight twist on your hopes I am actually hoping Arya is the one to kill Dany.

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    157. Jon Snowed: In a slight twist on your hopes I am actually hoping Arya is the one to kill Dany.

      That would be straight up gangsta! The interwebs would burst into flames of horror and joy!

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    158. death by chickenfire:
      and then, what is that thing he has south of his right elbow?

      Maybe something to cover up his golden hand? It could give away who he is and people probably might not believe he switched sides?

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    159. I actually feel it hits the bittersweet ending too and is more satisfying than a death by either the Nights King or Jon (assuming they turn on each other).

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    160. Clob,

      Ahahhahhaaa! I do not hold back on a Friday…well anyday really!

      That idea from JonSnowed was a funny surprise. I would not think of that myself.

      I should have said …flames of horror and/or joy!

      Actually, I am very fond of Jon as a character. Daenerys has an appealing backstory as well. All the characters in “GOT Fellowship against the AOTD” have something to recommend them.

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    161. Jack Bauer 24:
      So the premiere is going to be 55 minutes of WF, 3-4 minutes of KL and 1 minute of White Walkers marching

      Jack Bauer 24: Dark Sister

      I actually don’t think you are too far wrong here Jack. I expect the over whelming majority of stuff to take place in the North. I would guess we will get no more than a few minutes in Kings Landing between Cersei and Qyburn, then maybe a little more with Euron returning. We will probably get 5-10 minutes of White Walker mayhem either taking Castle Black or one of the Northern strong holds and we may get a brief catch up on Theon who will be looking for a way to sneak in and rescue Yara.

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    162. Dany’s clothes have always been elegant and feminine…with an edge. Now she’s incorporating fur(I don’t know what animal that dark red top is from) and it looks good.

      I would like it to be edgier, though. I wish they had put her in some black leather with intricate cutouts and red peeking out underneath. I wanted her to look fierce as she goes into battle. I don’t want her to be defined as Jon Snow’s lover and some kind of Madonna figure…. Mhyssa, notwithstanding. I don’t want her to be hobbled by pregnancy.

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    163. Dee Stark,

      I know you like to watch unsullied Dee, so just wondering if you will watch the trailer? I debated to even read this article but to be honest figured I wouldn’t be able to avoid them and they are most likely shown again in the trailer anyway.

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    164. Inga: Inga

      Honestly Inga I think there is no way on earth they will show anything from the finale they very rarely do that even in the trailer. I strongly suspect all shots are from the premiere with the possibility that some come from episode 2. There is clearly nothing from episode 3 as we know that will be battle heavy so my guess is Jon and Dany head North of the wall either in the premiere or the second episode latest.

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    165. I’m kinda excited about Sam interrogating the weirwood network via Bran. Bran cut off his training when he disobeyed the 3ER by staying inside the visions for too long, and as a result, doesn’t know how to self-interrogate. Maybe it’s Sam’s role to ask him pertinent questions.

      I’m curious about whether this idea that Bran has travelled back in time to try and change the future is correct. What is the thing Bran lost that he’s trying to regain? 3ER already told him that he’ll never walk again, so it can’t be his legs. What did Bran lose? He lost most of his family and that happy scene in the courtyard when he fails to make the bullseye. Speaking of which, that imagery of trying repeatedly to hit the mark, but failing, ties into the idea of time travelling to change the future but always altering the wrong event in the past…causing unintended changes in the future.

      What about Bran’s disobedience? He disobeyed his mother about climbing. Catelyn commented that Bran always looks at his feet when he lies. What does that mean? Is it a simple fibber’s tell, or is it something more? I could be reading too much into it, but maybe Bran told a lie and it had unintended consequences…one of which is the loss of his legs, which is why he looks at them when he lies. He then disobeyed the 3ER and caused Hodor’s and Summer’s deaths. What’s that all about? Is Bran an undisciplined magician who is using his powers in an uncontrolled way and causing havoc that reverberate through time?

      And why has Bran been staring into the flames lately? Is Bran the entity they call the Lord of Light that speaks through the flames? It’s possible that Bran’s psychic activity isn’t simply passive. They’ve shown us that he can communicate across space and time when he called out “Father!” to Nedd, and Nedd heard him.

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    166. Anon: idea that Bran has travelled back in time to try and change the future

      This has me thinking about the possibility of Bran doing that within the timeline of the final season or a single episode. It seems like a possibility IF he’s mastered his abilities enough to be seen or heard at a previous time. What if someone important is killed but Bran “goes back” to warn him/her and the scene is replayed with that person avoiding death with the new knowledge…?

      Maybe that also came to mind because I watched Groundhog Day on Groundhog Day and am watching that new series Russian Doll.

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    167. Clob,

      Well if we get a cold open to Bran waking up to Sonny and Cher’s “I Got You Babe” for season 8 episode 1 then I’d say you’re on the right track.

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    168. Surely I can’t be the only one who thinks that Bran is breathtakingly, heartbreakingly beautiful in that photo, can I? IMO, Isaac is among the very best actors in a cast of amazing talent. Even from the time he was tiny in the first season, he has out-acted most of the others. Much respect!

      Oh, and BRAN IS NOT THE NIGHT KING, DAMMIT!

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    169. Jon Snowed,

      My theory is Varys big sin is making Cersei/Robert believe their first dark haired boy died (used some potion to lower metabolism) then he gave boy to blacksmith to raise. Once the truth is known he’s finished, because it had a domino effect, similar to LF poisoning of Jon Arryn. Why would Varys take the boy, to weaken Baratheon grip on the crown, the Baratheon line isn’t the noblest of families, besides Varys is obviously a Targ loyalist.

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    170. Clob: This has me thinking about the possibility of Bran doing that within the timeline of the final season or a single episode.It seems like a possibility IF he’s mastered his abilities enough to be seen or heard at a previous time.What if someone important is killed but Bran “goes back” to warn him/her and the scene is replayed with that person avoiding death with the new knowledge…?

      Maybe that also came to mind because I watched Groundhog Day on Groundhog Day and am watching that new series Russian Doll.

      Yes! That is a great idea to show us Bran finally hitting the bullseye, so to speak. Maybe Bran has tried many times before but the messages were misheard and misinterpreted because he had not mastered his abilities. And more than that, maybe Bran’s missed arrows have caused much of this chaos to begin with.

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    171. Clob: What if someone important is killed but Bran “goes back” to warn him/her and the scene is replayed with that person avoiding death with the new knowledge…?

      STAAAAAHHP you guys! No time-traveling, tinkering-with-the-past Bran, please! Have we come this far to devolve into cheesy, way-overused sci/fi tropes? I will be so disappointed if they go that route.

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    172. Tyjon:
      Jon Snowed,

      My theory is Varys big sin is making Cersei/Robert believe their first dark haired boy died (used some potion to lower metabolism) then he gave boy to blacksmith to raise…. Why would Varys take the boy, to weaken Baratheon grip on the crown, the Baratheon line isn’t the noblest of families, besides Varys is obviously a Targ loyalist.

      If Varys wanted to end the legitimate Baratheon line, why not simply arrange for pregnant Cersei to be slipped an abortifacient herb like rue or pennyroyal? Or for the heir to die in infancy? Happened to babies all the time in the Middle Ages; easy to do without arousing any suspicion. Keeping the child alive and in hiding implies some more complicated motive.

      Don’t forget that Cersei’s tale of her black-haired boy is show-only. The showrunners would have to deviate very far indeed from the author’ endgame to make that Varys’ ‘big sin.’

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    173. Jon Snowed,

      I just checked the stills form the last season: mostly they were from episodes 1, 2 and 3. But Missandey was from Ep 5. And the trailer included shots from most of the episodes (including Cersei from the finale). Therefore, you assumtion that the current stills should be limited to Ep 1 and 2 is not fact based.

      Meanwhile, when we have to look at the pictures… I do agree, that the still of Sansa, Davos, Brienne, and Dany come from the same scene: some general meeting in the great hall of Winterfell which I expect in Ep1 or 2 at the latest.

      Tyrion and Varys are too neutral to make a guess, but, as there are no traces of the battle in the courtyard of Winterfell, I place them in Ep 1 or 2 as well. Sam and Bran go there as well.

      Jaime should be Ep 2 rather than 1: he’s clearly sitting in the great hall of Winterfell, although this time the hall is empty. And I don’t expect Jaime comming to Winterfell in Ep 1, as it is going to be packed with other reunions.

      Now Ep3 can be represented by the stills of Jon and Arya. Jon is clearly checking the first line of newly-built fortifications right outside the walls of Winterfell, whereas Arya is looking up and there’s a night’s watchman blowing a horn behind her. Clearly both stills can be attributed to the opening of the battle sequence: after all, every battle in GOT had some sort of introduction.

      Ep 4 may be represented by Cersei’s stills. She’s looks very emotional and I don’t expect emotional scenes from Cersei before the results of the Winterfell battle kick up whaterver is supposed to happen in King’s Landing in the second half of the season. Moreover, Cersei’s costume

      is the same she was in Dubrovnik for the scenes with Jon, and those were most probably for Ep4.

      Therefore, Jon & Dany may also be from the second half of the season and I put them towards the end based on the fact that Jon is not wearing body armor. You can’t strip the main fighter of his armor for no good reason: it’s a big deal and things like that tend to happen right before the final dénouement. Moreover,

      Jon was still wearing his brigandine during his meating with Cersei

      . Therefore the stills should be from Ep 5-6, not before. And this makes sense location-wise, too: there is no point of going north before the Winterfell batlle. Meanwhile afterwards a legit reason may appear: for instance, the Night King may flee to his lair planning to take a nap for another thousand years or similar. The location by the mountain shaped as an arrowhead was well established in S6 and 7 and we haven’t got the payoff yet.

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    174. Inga: Jaime should be Ep 2 rather than 1: he’s clearly sitting in the great hall of Winterfell, although this time the hall is empty. And I don’t expect Jaime comming to Winterfell in Ep 1, as it is going to be packed with other reunions.

      Jaime’s arrival at Winterfell might actually make a very satisfactory final scene for Ep 1. Picture a troubled Brienne taking her turn keeping watch above the main gate, when a lone mysterious figure, cloaked and hooded in Northern colors, rides slowly up on a black horse. He looks up at Brienne, raises his right arm to wave and lets the cuff of his sleeve fall back to reveal the golden hand. It would nicely recall their parting at Riverrun.

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    175. Firannion,

      The night’s watchman holds his hand close to his mouth. So, uness he is smoking a cigarette between takes, he should be blowing a horn. At least, that’s a legit guess.

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    176. Firannion,

      Sure, Jaime may arrive to Winterfell by the end of Ep 1, but the still implies some sort of conversation happening AFTER his arrival.
      Besides that, with all respect to Jaime and his reations to Brienne, I don’t see how Jaime’s arrival could make a drama. Jaime has already had a short but rather cooperative exchage with Dany at the Dragonpit. There was no emnity between them them, so it would be very out of charracer for Dany to freak out and lock him up or whatever. Jon is also determined to write off all the yesterday’s wars. Bran? Meeting a man who crippled him might be painful, but Jaime has already been punished for his sins and Bran has an opportunity to rewatch that as many times as he wishes, if he still needs a satifaction. Arya? Sansa? Jon & Bran will manage to stop the girls from doing something impulsive. So, there’s no potential for creating some major conflict out of Jaime’s arrival. His role should be tied into some bigger story like Jon’s parentage reveal and big battle for the dawn, where Jaime may fing peace and fulfillment by dying a glorious death.

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    177. Anon,

      Clob,

      Very interesting ideas. I have been thinking about Bran’s potential powers in this wasskr a long time, certainly since we were shown Hodor’s time loop disaster. (Hodorigin story) Would make sense with Bran the builder, etc… and would also tie in to the circular story of ragnarok, etc… which is one of GRRMs major mythological influences (if not the main one)

      Russian Doll was cool. Exploring (though not super explicitly) the ideas around quantum realities, multiple parallel realities existing simultaneously, and our potential to create our own reality through the gift of free will and the execution of the choices we make. Feedback loops, input/output cycles, choose your own adventure….

      In Jon’s medival fun time voice: cool stuff!

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    178. Inga:
      Firannion,

      The night’s watchman holds his hand close to his mouth. So, uness he is smoking a cigarette between takes, he should be blowing a horn. At least, that’s a legit guess.

      I can’t see a hand or a mouth. Just clothing and long hair. Can’t even tell if it’s the front or the back of the person.

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    179. Sister Kisser: Russian Doll was cool. Exploring (though not super explicitly) the ideas around quantum realities, multiple parallel realities existing simultaneously, and our potential to create our own reality through the gift of free will and the execution of the choices we make. Feedback loops, input/output cycles, choose your own adventure….

      In Jon’s medival fun time voice: cool stuff!

      Cool stuff, indeed!

      Gotta jump ahead and watch Hodor’s time loop again, in this context.

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    180. Anon,

      Really intrigued by your observation of Brans proclivity for… bending the truth… and not following the rules. The consequences have been disasterous. I have never really considered that

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    181. Ten Bears: Well, I suppose “RBF” is her default expression. Not all her (Sophie’s) fault though.
      I kind of wish the story would include more of the scenes like on the battlements with Arya at the end of S7e7.It showed a warm, empathetic. smiling Sansa. (So did her giggling in S7e4 in her reunion with Arya in the Crypts when she thought Arya’s List was a big joke. Guess again. 😬)

      I am NOT comparing and I am NOT Sansa-bashing. I just can’t help noticing that despite all the traumas Arya has suffered, she still gets to let out a laugh and toss out zinger punch lines now and then. Even if, for example, her hysterical double- laughter in S4e8 at the absurdity of traveling all the way to the Bloody Gate to be ransomed to her Aunt Lysa only to learn that she too was dead– and then to laugh some more when she turned and saw the look of disappointment on Sandor’s face. Or responding to Gendry’s warning, “You shouldn’t insult people that are bigger than you” with the perfectly-timed comeback: “Then I wouldn’t get to insult anyone.” Oh, and of course, outwitting Jaqen by giving him his own name and insisting: “I’m not joking. A Man can go kill himself.”

      I am not a book reader. Perhaps GRRM wrote Sansa to be devoid of any joyful emotions because of the travails she had to endure.

      Agreed! Arya’s sense of humor is one of the many reasons I love and enjoy her, while mostly just tolerating Sansa…xD

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    182. Firannion: I can’t see a hand or a mouth. Just clothing and long hair. Can’t even tell if it’s the front or the back of the person.

      left of the person’s hair you can see a hand in a glove, and a lok at the wristband says it is a right hand. also, the person’s coat has a tiny slit at the left shoulder which gives sight to . i think it is a front view, but i also agree with you that a lifted arm does not necessarily mean “horn”. fixing a helmet or just having a drink will do as well.

      btw, it seems the person is far more in the background than a first look offers. what a high depth of field can do to the eye…

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    183. I like that theory about Gendry and to be honest don’t recall ever seeing it before but it’s feasible and realistic in my view.

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    184. I have a feeling the end of episode 1 will see the following key events:
      – Jon’s parentage reveal
      – White Walker attack at Castle Black or Last Hearth
      – Jamie arriving at Winterfell
      – it may also see Euron returning with the Golden Company but that may be episode 2.

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    185. Inga,

      Thanks Inga, that’s some well thought out analysis on your part. In reality it’s all guess work by us all at this point but I really cannot imagine the pictures of Dany and Jon are from the last couple of episodes because it would be a huge spoiler but equally if they go beyond the wall it’s a stretch for it to happen so soon.

      I just watched Val from Because Geek who is a great youtuber on GOT/ASOIF and she is speculating that all stills are from episode 1 and the pics of Jon and Dany are not beyond the wall but outside/on the approach to Winterfell which would make sense I think.

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    186. Mango,
      Sister Kisser,

      and many others. Enjoyed your comments.

      Hey, I don’t WANT Jaime to DIE. I just think it very probable, I’m trying to prepare myself for this loss.

      I thank everybody here who’s discussed Jaime, that picture, his fate, anything Jaime-related. You all know I’m one big Jaime fan, and NCW has brought him to life so wonderfully whenever the writers have given him something meaty to work with.

      One more observation about the Jaime photo in this batch. What I immediately thought of, contrasted with, was that Jaime/Edmure scene in S6. It was suberb acting from both NCW and Tobias Menzies. Towards the end when it got really intense, it was shot (lighted) in such a way that Jaime’s face was half in light, half in darkness. Very sharp contrast, very deliberate. This new picture has his face half in light, the other half partly in shadow, party in light. So maybe 3/4 in light. I’m not sure if that means anything, maybe they just chose a still of Jaime that won’t give too much away.

      Ho hum, I just like analysing pictures. In and of themselves. I don’t care if my analyses are later proved wrong, I just like the process.

      Anyway, I promised a series of analysing all the photos, real life commitments have delayed me but now I’ll finish what I started.

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    187. 5.
      Brienne looking very intense.

      It seems to be some kind of a council scene in the Winterfell Great Hall. There are Unsullied behind her.

      Looking at the costuming (and let’s remember Michelle Clapton is a genius), she’s wearing her armour and her big northern-type cloak. The big cloak is kind of feminine, the fabric seems softer, it’s very gathered into many soft folds.

      But she’s wearing armour – the one Jaime gave her (“I hope I got your measurements right” – Jaime, the dirty bastard, had really looked at her, and her measurements, aww.)

      In the books, Catelyn and Jaime both think, separately of course, that Brienne has built walls, armour around her inner, true self. It’s not as obvious in the show, but her lady’s armour is not courtesy but actual armour.

      The times she’s not worn armour, she’s been physically vulnerable (after being captured by Locke, nearly raped; Harrenhall with Roose Bolton and then the bear pit) or very psychologically, emotionally vulnerable (talk with Margaery, and especially being confronted by Cersei in Joffrey’s wedding).

      She wasn’t wearing armour when she stared at WF, waiting for Sansa’s candle, and she wasn’t wearing armour in that dinner scene in Castle Black, when Tormund made eyes at her. Otherwise, she almost always wears her armour.

      Now, I want to see Ser Jaime removing that armour… 😀

      Oh, yeah, and I want Brienne to have something meaningful to do in S8. Fighting the real war, resolving, perhaps even consummating, her relationship with Ser Jaime.

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    188. 6.
      Moving on. Next up is Davos. Everybody’s favourite everyman made good, risen to be councillor, Hand, to not one, but to two kings.

      It seems to be a council in WF Great Hall. Unsullied in the background (probably same scene as the Brienne picture).

      He’s listening, he looks concerned, sceptical. He looks about to speak some common sense.

      He’s had that slighty tattered dark green coat forever. Is it actually suede? Is the green colour a call back to wildfire and the Battle of the Blackwater?

      Then there’s Varys.

      He’s got even warmer clothes than S7. I like the texture on his coat/gown. There’s something lizardly about it.

      Notice how the cloaky type thing allows him to HIDE his hands. Look back S1 to S7, Varys always has clothes that allow him to HIDE his hands. In the sleeves, under a cloak.

      Hide his hand. This would be more important in the book context, with fAegon, possible Blackfyre connection. Still, even on the show, he’s hiding his hand(s), so we should be wary. Varys wary.

      He’s also in front of a what looks like a strong iron, studded door, looking back, perhaps to see if anybody sees him. What is he up to?

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    189. Jon Snowed,

      I watched Because Geek, too – Val is great, but in this case I disagree with her.

      The guess that Jon & Dany are simply speaking outside Winterfell just doesn’t seem right. If the showrunners required some pre-arrival exchange between them, they could have filmed that at the Winterfell set: it’s very well developed from the outside. So, what’s the point of splashing on an extra trip to Iceland, if you can simply film Jon & Dany on the horsebacks cahting on the background of all those walls and towers? BTW, there’s a possibility that we’ll get a scene like that: the photo TV Guide published some time ago featured Jon on horseback in full Stark armor and it shoul be from the arrival sequence. But not the latest stills.

      I’ve checked the stills from Season 6 as well. They also were from very different episodes and among them, Bran’s photo on the horseback was from as late as Ep10. It was very spoilery, too: we just didn’k know how to interpret it. OK, people made a legit guess that Bran would have to leave the cave, but no-one had a clue under what circumstances. Therefore, getting a “spoilery” still from the finale it’s not beyond the realms of possibility: we won’t now how spoilery it has been, untill the show airs.

      After all, Jon & Dany staying together till the end is not such a big spoiler: it’s excatly how we left them in 707 and it’s hard to believe that something like Jon’s parentage reveal could break them apart for longer than an episode or two. As for their ultimate fate, the photos are also open for different interpretations: they can be giving that solemn look to the past and then turning to each other or they can be sharing the last moment before facing death with that solemn look.

      So, nothing all that spoilery: we have no clue under what circumstances Jon will be stripped of his armor and come to the location; we don’t know what they are facing, although that may be the major twist. It’s just the main couple of the show staying together as expected. No big deal.

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    190. Sister Kisser,

      1.I have not given a lot of thought about how Cersei would go out – your question made me think a bit. So here are are few undercooked thoughts. If she has time and knows she will face execution then she may poison herself as was the plan if the Blackwater war was lost.

      2. Cersei is a terrible person but these are the things that I do not want to happen with her: I do not want either Tyrion or Jaime to murder her. The only exception to that would be if they did it as a “gift of mercy” if she was dying in pain. Jaime killing her in a fit of angsty emotion would be a disaster for his arc. If it is to save Westeros – not even that would work for me. If he had to, I want cool indifference and I hope it does not come to that. Jaime has made some tough decisions but I would take this one from him. (He could do it if needed, he is hardened soldier.) And as for Arya killing her with Jaime’s face – that is corny and B-movie trash plot. I really hope not. I think GOT left out the valonquar prophecy because they did not wish to be locked into that Jaime/Tyrion idea. I do not want her to be humiliated and dragged thru the street – that has been done already. I do not want her burnt to death by a dragon – even after her Sept fire stunt.

      3.I hope she goes out in a blaze of defiance of the NK or others. If on her way out she does something to save her brothers or to serve her House – I think that would be great and consistent with her story.

      4.I would be fine if she went into permanent exile. My only concern there would be Brienne’s safety (and Brienne’s kids.) So Cersei will have to die. It would be interesting if Cersei were put in house arrest for life on Tarth where Brienne’s loyalists could make sure she is contained. I do not think it will work; she will escape somehow. And she would be a constant threat. Too much work.

      5.So for me, the best end is that Cersei dies by her own hand. In GOT, Cersei has been so regally performed by Lena, I would like a suitable departure for this magnificent but misguided monarch.

      I think D&D will/should give Cersei an exit on her own terms.

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    191. Jon Snowed,

      As for Jaime, I would still put his arrival into Ep 2. If Jon’s parentage reveal happens in Ep1 as I expect and the ramifications are handled in Ep 2, Jaime’s role migth be bringing everyone’s focus back to the White Walkers.

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    192. 7.
      I want to take the Bran and Sam photos together just because the light, the lighting is so similar. Very warm.

      They’re probably not from the same scene, the light tone and the background don’t match, but Bran and Sam are linked in that they know Jon’s secret.

      Also, Bran staring at the fire. Is he emulating Melisandre?? seeing things in the fire? Shouldn’t he be at the weirwood?

      What I’m mostly looking forward to is Bran meeting Jaime and resolving THAT thing. (“I saw you fucking your sister. It was beautiful. I fell to become the Three-eyed Raven” Jaime: “Er, uhm…” Bran: “It was meant to be this way. Go and fight the real war.” Jaime: “Uhm, er…” Bran: “Oh, I won’t tell my honourable cousin or my murderous sister.” Jaime: “Oh, uhm… er..”)

      Sam, then. We see half a smile – they’re rare enough in the past few seasons of GoT. He looks kind of proud and determined. He’s wearing his old NW blacks but he’s got his hair swept back like he did in Oldtown/The Citadel. He looks proud, or rather, self-confident, and ready.

      It doesn’t look like WF, more like the Red Keep (What is that maroon banner hanging down to the left of the picture??). I hope Sam knows what he’s doing. Maybe he’ll have read about in a book.

      Both these Bran and Sam photos stand out because they have very warm colours and tones. Only the Cersei pictures come even half-way close.

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    193. talvikorppi,

      “It was beautiful”. Lol. Voyeurs…

      We all know you don’t want Jaime to die- but are bracing for it. He’s my favorite character as well (cool to see so many Jaime fans, we used to be few and far between!). I am waiting for him to forge a sword to his golden hand, lightnit on Fire, and go out in a heroic blaze of battle. (Unlikely, yes. Also- I realize- it’s all in the wrist and this scenario negates that- but this is fantasy!)

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    194. talvikorppi:

      What I’m mostly looking forward to is Bran meeting Jaime and resolving THAT thing. (“I saw you fucking your sister. It was beautiful. I fell to become the Three-eyed Raven” Jaime: “Er, uhm…” Bran: “It was meant to be this way. Go and fight the real war.” Jaime: “Uhm, er…” Bran: “Oh, I won’t tell my honourable cousin or my murderous sister.” Jaime: “Oh, uhm… er..”)

      Hahhahhahaaa! I love that Jaime is speechless – for once!

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    195. Mango,

      Did you mean, Malificent and misguided? Jk. I got you. I think the testimony to Lenas acting is that it’s very easy to simultaneously despise and also feel sympathy for her. That said- I wouldn’t even mind seeing her flayed alive (yeah, but gonna happen, but…). In my opinion, if she gets the worst, she has it coming.

      Interesting thoughts you present, for sure. Especially regarding poison. If she is carrying a child, though, I doubt she will go that route. She would sacrifice all of KL and marry the NK to save her baby.

      I also share your view on Arya getting to her with Jaimes face. That would suck. But I wouldn’t mind Arya getting to her….

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    196. Mango,

      Yeah, that is funny. Speechless, for once. I was actually just thinking that I hope, however humbled Jaime is now, that he maintains some of his characteristic sarcasm even in the north. I would like to see him drop some good one liners in the great hall of WF. That “I don’t give a fuck wit” is part of who he is. He’s more clever than people give him credit for, and I don’t want to see “sheepish” Jaime. He can show his loyalty and humility and still be kindof a dick

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    197. 8.
      The Jon & Dany pictures.

      They’re obviously from their filming in Iceland. The background with some glacier ice stuff going on underneath the first of the season’s snow.

      Their skin, especially Emila’s, looks exactly like white skin looks like in cold temperatures. A bit blotchy. White, red.

      The lovey-dovey picture is the same. Real cold blotchy skin.

      Minus temperatures (Celsius, I’m European talking about Celsius temperatus) are a nightmare to actors. Your face freezes, your lips freeze, so it becomes difficult to speak your lines the way you want to. The hairs inside your nose freeze together and your lips are hard to move.

      I’m glad they haven’t photoshopped away the coldness to give Emilia and Kit “perfect skin”. They’ve let us see the cold. The winter.

      Now, what are Jon and Dany looking at in the first picture? She seems more sad and worried, he seems more resigned… and somehow protective of her, ready to put his arm around her.

      Notice, too, that he’s not wearing any armour. So it cannot be a scene just before or after a battle.

      I also like the black-and-white quality of the picture. The background is black rocks and white snow, a bit of turquoise glacier. Jon is black, Dany is white. A nice picture.

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    198. Sister Kisser,

      Let me be clear – I love snippy Jaime. That is the only Jaime we need.
      I expect him to function as a leader in the war! I have no interest in sheepish Jaime. I expect him to arrive and join in leading the effort. Jaime has a fine mind, reads people and situations well, can make difficult decisions very swiftly, is brave; and has had a great leadership arc. (He has a blind spot with the people he loves and so is splendidly indulgent with his sister and brother )

      On Cersei, I would be fine if Arya kills her but as Arya. Flaying, lol!

      Lena has really delivered as Cersei and for that reason, a viewer can also understand her suffering in this story. That prophecy to a child (even an evil child); the exchange with her husband when she asks if they ever had a chance; and the death of her children – all terrible things to happen even for a terrible person. Of course, she is very very awful!

      Yes, if she is carrying a child she may not kill herself. I think she will miscarry, however – but who knows?

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    199. Sister Kisser,

      Oh, I want Jaime humbled, him admitting his wrong deeds, eating some humble pie. But I’d never want him to lose his sarkyness. He’s way funnier than Tyrion. Usually inside his head, not outloud. (Book thing.)

      Poor Tyrion cannot keep his thoughts and comments to himself, and has nothing on his brother’s dead pan sarkyness. Because he (Tyrion) craves acceptance, even more than Jaime does. Jaime, the golden boy, had latitude, whatever he did, the Lannister Lion. I think it’s very touching that he always looked after Tyrion, the only family member who loved Tyrion unconditionally and helped him as a big brother should.

      I think it was S1E1, and the early chapters in the first book. Jaime flings Bran out the window, saying, with loathing, “the things I do for love.”

      That, right there, is the key to Jaime. He does horrible and good things for love. Jaime is all about love. It’s pretty obvious. His name? J’aime. “I love”.

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    200. talvikorppi,

      Jaime was humbled when he lost his hand and wanted to die. (The writer made sure of that.) The lion of lannister was humiliated by random vagabonds. Repeatedly beaten and mocked. You see his humiliation especially in the book where he lost control of his bodily functions and so on etc.

      Bran and Jaime have unfinished business. Jaime made a difficult decision – the “train problem” that many people discuss in workshops on choices. It will be interesting how their meeting is handled. Let me tell you though – many parents would not hesitate to kill anyone to save their children.

      I am not sure who else he owes any apologies. Or to who else in WF he needs to be humble to or what about. Or why he is worse than any of the others now gathered at WF.

      Jaime has left KL to do what he thinks is right. He has given up a glittering role to wear an arbitrary armor to contribute to the fight. He only has one hand – yet he has turned up. You really think he is arrogant and needs to be humbled – I need to think about it a bit more as I do not see it at the moment.

      We perhaps disagree on this and that is ok.

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    201. Mango,

      I just want to try to see the other side to not to be a total Jaime fangirl.

      I love the pic we got, Jaime wearing battered, Robb style armour. Northern.

      Jaime might want to fight the real war but it’s understandable that many do not believe him, think he has any sicerity. This is where Tyrion and Brienne come in, to vouch for him.

      He’ll love, he’ll fight the good fight, and he’ll die.

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    202. talvikorppi,

      All good! Lol!!!

      Jaime is the greyest character with many flaws – I still tend to chase off critics vigourously. But you are a supporter and I need to be reasonable and sensible about his flaws!

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    203. Mango,

      talvikorppi,

      If I can just jump in here- I think what T was saying that, his snarky demeanor needs to be preserved, but maybe tone it down a bit with some sense of humility. I agree, he should vocally take account for his past mistakes- that will go a long way with everyone he will have to cooperate with in the north, and it’s something season 1 Jaime would never do. His arrogance then was unbearable. I just don’t want him to be too sheepish. Maintain a bit of the attitude that makes his character. (Hopefully with Dany- who will not take well to the sight of him)

      Interesting observation regarding the French definition of his name, j’’aime.

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    204. talvikorppi,

      IMO, Bran can vouch for Jaime more than anyone else, winter crow (that’s how talvikorppi translaters, right?) – Bran can check Jaime’s entire life up to his breakup with Cersei. And Jon is a pretty good judge of a charracter, too: his interactions with Jaime were breif, but there was some chemistry there. As for Dany, she had a short exchage with Jaime at the Dragonpit and there was no grunge – quite the oposite: I would call it cooperative. So, the key players can be legitly reserved about Jaime (God only know, what else he can do for love) but they should be inlined to continue that cooperative communication, unless Jaime does something to provoke them.
      As for Tyrion, I don’t thing his words will ever mean anything: Dany is tired of his games and Jon is not playing them at all.

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    205. Sister Kisser,

      I’m always wondering who of the Lannister siblings is actually the clever one. Tyrion, obviously, before Jaime got his hand chopped off and couldn’t solve all his problems with a threat of a sword fight.

      After Jaime was maimed, he really begins to think. He thinks more, and more deeply than either of his siblings. Cersei and Tyrion think towards their own advantage, attaining and keeping power. Jaime begins to think about the greater good, society. He’s not interested in power as such, though he’ll wield it to do good, as he sees it.

      The paradox is that Jaime, the Kingslayer, who broke one of the greatest taboos of their world, is also the most moral of the Lannister siblings, always has been. Nothwithstanding some incest. Cersei and Tyrion don’t tie themselves in knots about these moral dilemmas like Jaime does.

      This is why I find the Lannister siblings far more interesting than the “good” Stark siblings/cousins.

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    206. Inga,

      I forgot about the post-loot train dragonpit meeting…

      Will be interesting to see how everyone responds to Tyrion. I am interested to see the reunion of he and Jaime, and especially so if Tyrion let’s him in on the fact that he has cut some kind of deal with Cersei.

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    207. talvikorppi,

      Although I do admire the Stark family, and it’s history- I tend to agree that the dynamic within the Lannister’s (and its family history) is more interesting. I love the dialog someone posted yesterday when Jaime first sees Brienne, via Caitlyn, as a prisoner. His proclaiming the hypocrisy of knighthood, especially given the personal experience only he knows at that point, is super insightful. Ideals are great (stark), but when forced to discern between incompatible contingencies held within an oath, what does one do? Jaime has been tested in this way, many times. I would argue that Jon has done so as well- as soon as he joined the nights watch, his story has been one of these trials after another.

      I am also super intrigued by the book! Possibilities regarding the Lannister’s true parentage….

      ‘Because I cannot prove you are not my son’. Paraphrasing Tywin, to Tyrion, in the show, back when the old man was still alive.

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    208. Sister Kisser:

      … has cut some kind of deal with Cersei.

      Would Jaime be OK with it? I think not.

      Jaime is committed to the real war, the northern war. Finding out that his siblings were playing out, planning to shaft… yeah, basically all humanity, just to stay in power… planning this all along isn’t going to endear them to him.

      The interesting thing is, who exactly commands the Lannister forces? The battle-tested general, Ser Jaime Lannister, or the mad queen, a favourite of her’s?

      Jaime really has to step up and be the man he was meant to be. Not quite what Tywin meant, just… better.

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    209. talvikorppi,

      I agree. Definitely don’t see Jaime being pleased with tyrion, if said deal undermined any agreement made between all parties down in KL. Not sure that Tyrion’s perspective or motivation is entirely self-serving, however, I could see him cutting a deal with Cersei that he thinks makes the most sense, or is the only way to work with her, given all other variables. We’re sure to see how his plays out. Perhaps he fears Dany is ultimately unreasonable or uncontrollable following the burning of the Tarlys, and he fears the return of madness. (How she is any worse than Cersei, especially from Tyrions perspective, is quite a stretch). Perhaps he made a move for future control of the rock. Who knows at this point? Either way, I think Jaime will be disappointed in Tyrion, and possibly feel forced to abandon him.

      I can see Jaime usurping control of the golden company.

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    210. Sister Kisser,

      I think Tyrion and Cersei made a crazy plan. It makes no sense at all. Jaime will be furious. Ughh!

      Yes, GRRM played a number so interesting games with names. Jaime is I love. Jaime is the same name as Jacob, Father of the Nation. Twin of Esau born holding his twin’s heel. After a misspent youth, he eventually supplants his twin to become father of the nation. Jacob found happiness with his second wife after a long courtship. (GRRM met his 2nd and current wife in a hot tub, Jaime and Brienne got the hot tub scene!). There is also a one-handed god in Norse myths that is the god of honor, justice and war. Hence – Golden Hand the Just is how Jaime thinks at one point when he does something nice. Jaime also has the most complicated understanding of honour in the story. In LOTR, there is an Evenstar- her name Arwen which means noble one. Brienne also means noble one and she is the Evenstar as well. He does this with other characters as well. Jon has a Sam and a Pip as did Frodo in LOTR. It does not mean the characters turn out the same – just fun to see.

      Yes, Jaime needs to be a better man that Tywin wanted/expected.

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    211. Thank you, everybody!

      I love all the Jaime talk. He’s such a complex character, deserving much discussion.

      It’s all helped by the fact he’s portrayed by such a great actor as NCW. Who also happens to be a genuinely good guy in real life. And the biggest Jaime/Brienne shipper there is, haha!

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    212. Inga:
      talvikorppi,

      IMO, Bran can vouch for Jaime more than anyone else, winter crow (that’s how talvikorppi translaters, right?) – Bran can check Jaime’s entire life up to his breakup with Cersei. And Jon is a pretty good judge of a charracter, too: his interactions with Jaime were breif, but there was some chemistry there. As for Dany, she had a short exchage with Jaime at the Dragonpit and there was no grunge – quite the oposite: I would call it cooperative. So, the key players can be legitly reserved about Jaime (God only know, what else he can do for love) but they should be inlined to continue that cooperative communication, unless Jaime does something to provoke them.
      As for Tyrion, I don’t thing his words will ever mean anything: Dany is tired of his games and Jon is not playing them at all.

      Winter raven, actually. 🙂

      I’m thinking of that show!only scene in S1E2, arrogant arsehole Jaime taunting Jon about joining a honourable, celibate warrior order, the Night’s Watch. “It’s only for life.”

      Jaime was talking about himself, there.

      Jaime was only 15 when he joined the King’s Guard. Young, idealistic, like Jon. OK, already a bit corrupt because of Cersei, but he was idealistic, until serving the Mad King and witnessing his fellow KG “just following orders” e.g. standing by while he burned people alive, raped his wife etc. (Barri, I’m looking at you!) turned him into a cynic.

      Jaime was actually understanding and empathising with Jon a lot more than Jon undestood at the time.

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    213. Mango:

      Jaime was humbled when he lost his hand and wanted to die. (The writer made sure of that.) The lion of lannister was humiliated by random vagabonds. Repeatedly beaten and mocked. You see his humiliation especially in the book where he lost control of his bodily functions and so on etc.

      Bran and Jaime have unfinished business. Jaime made a difficult decision – the “train problem” that many people discuss in workshops on choices. It will be interesting how their meeting is handled. Let me tell you though – many parents would not hesitate to kill anyone to save their children.

      I am not sure who else he owes any apologies. Or to who else in WF he needs to be humble to or what about.Or why he is worse than any of the others now gathered at WF.

      Jaime has left KL to do what he thinks is right. He has given up a glittering role to wear an arbitrary armor to contribute to the fight. He only has one hand – yet he has turned up. You really think he is arrogant and needs to be humbled – I need to think about it a bit more as I do not see it at the moment.

      We perhaps disagree on this and that is ok.

      I don’t think Jaime was thinking about his children with Cersei when he flung Bran out the window, he was thinking about Cersei. He didn’t have much of a relationship with the children, Cersei had forbidden it.

      Also, read/watch it. Jaime’s first instinct was to save Bran. He only flung him out the window after looking at Cersei, who was hysterical (“He saw us!”). Saying, with loathing, “Things I do for love.” Later, Cersei, of course, rewrites history and makes it all Jaime’s fault.

      Now, I happen to think Jaime has been humbled enough, brought down, he’s learned from his mistakes, is trying to find a better way.

      But you’ll find some in the fandom, mostly ardent Stark fans, who will NEVER forgive Jaime and think he should be punished and punished and punished forever. They won’t allow any character development on Jaime because for them, Jaime is forever and always bad, bad, bad. GRRM himself is wrong in writing Jaime’s story the way he does. Ho hum.

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    214. talvikorppi,

      Maybe, you are right. Yes, he instinctive grabbed Tommen.

      Then Cersi exclaimed. I think her fear would have reminded him of the implications. The children, her, him, Tyrion and possibly war started by his father – I think he would have instantly remembered the implications – especially the children. They have been a couple for a long time, he would have estimated the implications if caught. (Actually, if they were caught in KL they would have a better chance of escape than at WF!) I think we readers were meant to focus on the implications for the children because when GRRM made Ned think about the incident he considers the children and asked what he, Ned would do.

      Do you think Tyrion loved Tommen and Myrcella? Jaime would have loved them more even if he had to behave only as an uncle. We are discussing Tyrion getting into a wild plan with Cersei because a baby is coming. Actually many aunts and uncles would also kill to protect their nieces and nephews. And grandparents too.

      GRRM was very clever when he set Jaime’s arc – to make him an uber-villain he gave Jaime a sexual sin (incest) and a hurting a child (a big taboo). Two excellent choices! Then he writes the arc – Jaime back into the reader’s affections. GRRM is using Jaime to do several thing in his writing. A writer at work.

      Many Stark fans see the world in black & white. Many seem to fail to understand the evolution of characters and personal growth as one matures. They also fail to see that Stark’s concept of honor is a variety that wreaks havoc on others. The Starks made mistake after mistake, often well-meant but shortsighted. GRRM has failed to bring them along – not only us,

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    215. talvikorppi,

      How do you think GRRM could have written his character better? I’m curious.

      Totally agree he was talking about himself in that conversation with Jon. The NW order mimics the one Jaime joined. On the surface, and perhaps for more casual viewers, they would just see it as a completely dick move with no other motivation other than simply being a dick

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    216. Mango,

      Lots of cool connection! Thank you for that. I knew the story of Tyr, who lost his sword hand to Fenris, a result of Odin’s dishonesty, and fear.

      Wasnt familiar with the rest of he connections.

      The quote I paraphrased earlier was actually something Tywin said to Tyrion! 🙂

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    217. Mango,

      We are discussing Tyrion getting into a wild plan with Cersei because a baby is coming.

      no. all the discussion about Tyrion turning full batshit and forgetting what Cersei has already done to him and what she wished she could have done (“i’ve found your little whore.”) comes from speculation gone wild.

      the life expectancy of this claim without any meat to the bone is just stunning.

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    218. death by chickenfire,

      I don’t expect Tyrion to make a U-turn towards Cersei but he has already demonstrated an unconcious(?) desire to protect the lives of his silblings, so there is a big possibility that he will continue to seach for a compromise behind Dany’s back and that may turn into disaster.

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    219. talvikorppi:
      Thank you, everybody!

      I love all the Jaime talk. He’s such a complex character, deserving much discussion.

      It’s all helped by the fact he’s portrayed by such a great actor as NCW. Who also happens to be a genuinely good guy in real life. And the biggest Jaime/Brienne shipper there is, haha!

      Does every thread have to be derailed into a Jaime Golden Redeemed Adonis love-fest???

      JUST KIDDING!!!!
      (I too have become a Jaime Superfan.)

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    220. death by chickenfire,

      You made me chuckle. An entire conspiracy theory around Tyrion has been developed from (i) The truncated conversation with Cersei; (ii) Tyrion displeased look when Jon went into Daenerys’ room; (iii) internet speculation about Tyrion’s life span.

      You are right – very little to have become taken for granted.

      Perhaps there is no deception. We have no evidence given. So far Tyrion has given her solid political advice – she is the mad king’s daughter and cannot roast her way into a sustainable reign. Yes, she can win easily but to hold it peacefully she needs to think of a better way.

      My tinfoil instinct is that IF (a big IF) Tyrion is involved in any deception – it is to protect both the baby and Westeros. Perhaps Cersei refused to change her mind and told him she was not going to join the truce. What would have happened next? Daenerys would have not gone north immediately, She would waste time in fighting the southern armies to win the throne. Wasting both armies! The whole point of the truce is to get her dragons and armies north asap. He may have asked Cersei to give him something he can work with. He knows she wants to keep the baby safe and that would give him something to trade. He could have said – Please go out and say you are going to join. If you do not, I will be unable to stop her killing you in days. She is beginning to want to burn people. If you do, this gives you and your baby a chance of survival at least for now. For Westeros, Jon and I need to get the dragons and army north. Cersei agrees as she knows she needs time for Euron to get back. (This scenario is a weak one I know – they did not tell Jaime, perhaps they knew he would never have agreed to it! Or maybe told them that militarily it would not work. He got a good look at Daenerys army in the fight and from the tower. He also asked about the size of the AOTD) The well-being of Westeros is important to Tyrion and he may have gone for the small chance to help fight AOTD instead Daenerys’ relentless political ambitions.

      I think we must assume that no deception and that Tyrion was also fooled by Cersei because she could decide all of the above on her own.

      Tyrion frown would be because Deanerys needs to make a good political marriage and Jon has already sworn fealty without marriage. He is now more like Dario. Tyrion does not know Jon is a Targ.

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    221. To have Tyrion suddenly take sides with Cersei, after all she has done to him since infancy, would be to pull the rug out from under years and years of character development of one of the series’ three leads. It’s not going to happen.

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    222. Inga,

      Yes! This is a very reasonable take on the potential for behind the scenes diplomacy having unintended consequences.

      Firannion,

      Why does he have to take sides with Cersei to cut some kind of a deal with her, without Danys knowledge or consent? It could be some small compromise that Dany takes as a major slight, given she’s at the end of her patience with Tyrion. Tyrion has shown time and again that despite his best, most well thought out plans, he can make mistakes. I believe trying to reason with an unreasonable person in this situation could prove ultimately disastrous. Only a few months and we shall see!

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    223. I think these are all Ep. 1

      Cersie finding out that the wall has been breached and the AOTD is heading her way. She was wrong, and Jaime will die in the north because of her betrayal. (Second photo of her, I think, is her resolve… Already brushing Jaime’s imminent death off as his own stupidity and siding with the Starks.)

      Danny is seeing Wintefell for the first time, Jon is proud to show her. A curious look from both as they see movement outside the walls. Lots of people.

      Jon approaches Wintefell and understands… Sansa has begun preparing for the battle. Sansa is Jon’s Queen in the North.

      Danny’s look in her solo photo…. Someone told her some unexpected truth or betrayal that she cannot combat, only accept. Maybe her first words with Jon after learning his lineage.

      Tyrion, after seeing Jaime enter the gates of Wintefell, surprised, dialogues with Sansa.

      Arya reacquainted with the Hound. Neither surprised by the other.

      David, Brienne, Sansa all discovering at the same moment Jon’s true identity.

      Sansa sitting in the Hall, realizing in that moment she truly has become Queen of the North. She will take that responsibility seriously.

      Jaime, in Bran’s chamber. Bran telling truths from the flames.

      Varys…. Nobody knows what the f*ck Varys is up to. Let’s be honest…

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    224. Sister Kisser,

      For Season 8, from a story point of view, I expect Tyrion to play a more interesting role than he has recently. Tyrion of Season 1-4 has not been seen for a while.

      I am sure that Peter Dinklage will get some meaty work for the final season. I am pretty sure it will be more than wandering around behind Emilia.

      I am not sure what the drama will be around him but expect something interesting – not the low key that we have seen recently.

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    225. Sister Kisser, Exactly. I think before anyone knows the Wall has fallen and before Jaime arrives, Jon orders all armies to defend the Wall and Tyrion sends Cersei a raven to notify her of this. She uses this information to plan an attack on Winterfell. Dany & Starks think they have been betrayed by Tyrion but he simply trusted Cersei to send the Lannister army to help.

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    226. Am I the only one who finds this Tyrion speculation a little odd? So far there haven’t been any credible leaks (something confirmed by Watchers Staff) yet people are talking about this as though it’s coming seemingly on the basis he is distrusting of Dany’s intent (with good reason I may add) and a brief conversation with the sister he hates. I’m not saying it cannot happen only it’s just a theory that seems to have blown up.

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    227. Rygritte:
      Sister Kisser,Exactly. I think before anyone knows the Wall has fallen and before Jaime arrives, Jon orders all armies to defend the Wall and Tyrion sends Cersei a raven to notify her of this. She uses this information to plan an attack on Winterfell. Dany & Starks think they have been betrayed by Tyrion but he simply trusted Cersei to send the Lannister army to help.

      let’s hope the news on BranTV keep Jon from adding such a desastrous decision to his impressive list of strategy bloopers. because, sending all the troops to a place without proper acommodation or supplies puts the northerners in the biggest disadvantage. they need to eat, the AOTD doesn’t. even the guy Sandor threw rocks at would decide to postpone an attack until everyone hears the roaring of northern stomachs.

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    228. Jon Snowed,

      IMO, there’s more to than Tyrion’s conversation with Crersei and the look he gave to the “boatsex”. What startled me most was Tyrion’s attemp to talk Dany out of saving Jon. Tyrion liked Jon, Jon ran into trouble implementing his plan and last but not the least: by that moment, Jon was Dany’s last remaining ally + the best expert on the WW. Loosing him would have been a disaster in every possible way: Dany would have antagonised the North, opened the way for the WW invasion, and had to go back to Essos leaving Westeros to its fate. Still Tyrion wanted Jon (and Jorah) dead against Dany’s interrests. So, we can be forgiven for not trusting Tyrion’s best intents.

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    229. Jon Snowed,

      I don’t get it either.

      It seems to me to be born of a preemptive eagerness to preserve Dany’s character and frame her as the unwitting victim of Tyrion’s scheming if anything goes wrong in their relationship.

      If Tyrion turns against Daenerys it won’t be because she’s done anything to warrant him doing so, it must be because he’s been plotting against her all along, in order to prove himself a true Lannister or because he’s jealous or whatever.

      The analysis of his attempts to prevent Dany flying north of the Wall is a perfect example.

      Tyrion. Was. Right.

      Dany lost a dragon. The Night King gained one. The Wall has fallen as a result. And she gained nothing of any use for it. Jon bending the knee is (as things stand) moot, since The North is not about to help Dany’s claim for the Iron Throne. Instead, she’s now going north with her armies to help them.

      And Tyrion’s advice was entirely consistent with advice offered throughout the season.

      Yet people frame the consequences of Dany’s decision completely backwards. As if Jon and Jorah dying; Viserion still being alive; the Wall not falling; and Cersei not having duped them into false truce, would have been the real disaster.

      It’s not logical. But it shifts focus from Dany’s disastrous decision to Tyrion’s alleged ulterior motives. If she had decided to leave Jon & Jorah to their fates, that would’ve played right into dastardly Tyrion’s hands, damn it. She had to go! Right?

      Theories about Tyrion’s betrayal in Season 8 illustrate a similar eagerness to paint Tyrion as the conspirator and then mould the evidence around that conclusion.

      Personally, I think it’s possible Tyrion will turn against Dany or commit some apparent act of betrayal. But I think it’s more likely to be motivated by concerns already expressed and triggered by actions yet to come.

      I don’t see where this idea of Tyrion playing some long con to try to get back in his family’s good graces or because he lusts for power, and throwing Jon and Dany under the bus in the process, comes from.

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    230. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      But you’ve got to remember that it was Tyrion’s idea in the first place to go on the wight hunt. In fact, all of Dany’s losses from season 7 can be traced back to Tyrion. The show didn’t show them as being intentional but in the early outline for the story, GRRM wanted a love triangle between Jon, Arya, & Tyrion which has since been replaced by Jon, Dany, & maybe still Tyrion. In that outline, it said that the triangle would resort in a rivalry that would have “fatal” consequences.

      Who is to say that in the books that Tyrion, jealous of Jon gaining Dany’s love and confidence over him (just like in the show), won’t suggest a wight hunt type plan in the hopes of Jon dying. That could be her betrayal for love. It would also leave Tyrion, as Dany’s sole remaining advisor… With Peter being so popular, the show has made him more of a hero than the gray & darker character he is in the books.

      Maybe they just let his misdeeds be seen as bad judgement calls so as not to tarnish his character too much but in reality he will be much more devious in the books. And perhaps D&D will return to GRRM’s true intent for him in the final season and his jealousy of losing his place as Dany’s top advisor will lead him to do something costly this final season? Maybe not full on side with Cersei but at least trying to steer Dany in a way that spares the Lannisters but may actually end up dooming others and himself in the process?

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    231. Jon Snowed,

      In a fandom like this, that’s what good theories do- they blow up. I’m not saying it’s going to be correct, but there is evidence for it, and that’s what we do, especially so now that we are well past the books. We take the evidence and run with it.

      Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      I’m not willing to full on argue with you on this, but I think you are making some serious assumptions based on your own feelings about certain characters. My expectations regarding Tyrion’s dealings with Cersei have nothing to do with my feelings for Dany’s character. (I am not exactly a Dany fan). For me- the fact that he had a closed door meeting with Cersei, that we did not see on screen, and the subsequent look he gave to the boatsex cabin door, pretty much Telegraph that something is up. I think he made a deal that a) he did not consult with Dany or Jon about, and b) he knows is risky. I am also not asserting that he is necessarily betraying Dany and Jon (despite the fact that he is operating without their explicit consent), or making a play for power, but rather, that he made a calculated decision for what he thinks is the best way to handle the situation moving forward, for all parties. Whether or not his potential family loyalties play into it, shall be seen. (I don’t necessarily believe this to be the case, tho i understand why people indulge this consideration)
      I think he is trying to do what’s right; be diplomatic; find compromise. But like I said before, he’s trying to rationalize with an irrational person, and this may prove disastrous- and as Dany is at the end of her patience with him, she will not respond well to potential dealings he has made without her knowledge or consent.

      Also, as was pointed out above- all of his strategic plans since arriving in Westeros, including the ridiculous wight hunt, have proven unsuccessful.

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    232. Aegon the IceDragon,

      Tyrion has always wanted to be Dany’s sole advisor: first, he undermined Jorah’s return, then, he hatched a plan, which could have easily allowed him to get rid of both Jorah and Jon. It’s quite possibe that he’ll continue trying and that he will betray Dany by scheming against Jon.
      Tyrion is a complicated character and he knows how to play the game. Remember, how he instructed Joffrei to go and express his condolences to the Starks after Bran’s fall? He suspected that his family was involved, so being wise he urged everyone to act beyond suspicion. Sure, he had a genuine soft spot for criples, bastards and broken things, but he could have used his true feelings purposefully – just like Cersei.
      And upon rewatch of S2 I got a feeling that there was something unspoken between Tyrion and Littlefinger. Tyrion knew that it was Littlefinger who fraimed him but somehow he waved it. Maybe, it was just necessary for the plot but I won’t be surpsised upon reveal that there was more to that.
      All in all, I like Tyrion and I don’t want him to be turned into a master manipulator vilain but on the other hand there’s plenty of setup for such twist.

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    233. All I know is if Tyrion is reduced from what he once was to become nothing more than some love sick puppy in season 8 then it’s a major disservice to the character. I’m hopeful that there’s more to Tyrion’s ending than that, but we’ll see.

      Love is the death of duty, so I guess Tyrion is pretty screwed if he really does officially fall in love with Dany in season 8.

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    234. Jon Snowed,

      Just about every theory blows up in the offseason. I always feel like the further away we get from actual episodes, the more tinfoily the speculation gets.

      It’s partially why I hate over-analyzing every picture/quote that is released. It almost always leads to incorrect speculation. Sometimes guessing is fun, but for me, it’s only fun if the speculation is grounded in evidence and common sense.

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    235. Mr Derp,

      Same here. Tyrion simply falling in love with Dany just doesn’t seem right. He had this “great love” for Shae he lost, cause he was too fond of the game of thrones. Moreover, he was clearly attracted to Sansa whom he’s about to meet once again and one can be forgiven for expecting some interesting interactions there, even if they simply result in them remaining friends. So, Dany kind of makes a crowd in terms of a romantic interest for Tyrion. The only way I see him loving her is as a tool of power or as his own avatar he wants to put on the throne. I hope the showrunners will be going this way rather than degrading this power game to a simple love triangle.

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    236. I hope they do not reduce Tyrion to a silly melodrama of a love-sick triangle.

      Tyrion has given solid advice to Daenerys. Including not to go north alone to face an “undefined” enemy to rescue a man that was not even sworn to her. It endangered her life and entire mission, why she left Essos to come to Westeros. It had nothing to with dislike or competition with Jon, Tyrion knows from experience that emotional and sexual engagement can lead anyone off their goals. He would have sent Grey Worm or a military team to the rescue if that was feasible. Her mistake led to a devastating situation for Westeros.

      His discussion with her about succession shows how long term he is willing to plan. Means he see himself in her court for the long term. Clear succession planning even when she is a young ruler helps build stability into her reign as queen.

      As for burning the Tarlys. He tried his best to help her avoid that major mistake. Beheading would have been better if she wanted to kill them.

      And Tyrion must frown when she beds Jon. She needs to exercise restraint and marry into an alliance that helps her purpose. Jon is already sworn to her. Bedding him is lovely but not useful.

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    237. Mr Derp,

      Lemme be clear- in no way do I expect this to become a love triangle, with Tyrion scheming against what he perceives as romantic threats. This is totally absurd. DND would ruin the entire story going this route.

      Tyrion is more practical. He knows his survival remains in his utility as hand to whomever he can help end up on top.

      Mango,

      Isnt an alliance for power through marriage, more powerful when it is for love? At this point, Dany is not going to marry for a convenient alliance. She doesn’t think she needs to, anyway.

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    238. Mr Derp,

      We will see what happens. I believe the evidence is there- some of it very subtle (boatsex look), some of it not so subtle, despite also not being explicit (a meeting with Cersei behind closed doors)

      Then again- I also thought we would find out more about sansa’s motivation when it came to the knights of the vale recruitment, why she withheld that from Jon in the battle planning, and what kind of deal she had to make with LF to gain his support back, and we heard nothing. So. Who knows. This could be just more speculation, dead end foreshadowing, and much ado about nothing

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    239. Sister Kisser,

      I wasn’t addressing anyone in particular. Everyone has their opinions and that’s all good with me. I was simply stating, in general, that the idea of Tyrion losing his marbles in season 8 over love would be a shame. He loved Shae and still had the awareness to realize the reality of the situation, so he ended it with her. I just don’t see Tyrion committing some ultimate betrayal over love. He’s smarter than that.

      Whether he betrays Dany because of her actions is another question though. I know a lot of people think Dany will go all mad queen in season 8, causing Tyrion to betray her, but I just don’t see it happening myself. I don’t know exactly what Dany’s ultimate fate will be, but I don’t see her going out as a villain. I think she’s also intelligent enough to see the bigger picture. I don’t think she’ll have the ultimate temper tantrum because Jon has a better claim. I think it’ll be tough at first, but she’ll get over it.

      I always thought that Dany’s arc was more about finding herself, finding family, and finding a home. Right now conquering the IT is the only way she thinks that she can do that, but once she finds out she’s not the only Targaryen left then she might come to see things differently.

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    240. Sister Kisser,

      I also thought that the closed door meeting with Cersei was noteworthy. We didn’t get to see what they said, and then shortly thereafter, Cersei re-emerged with a different attitude about the whole thing. Definitely suspicious.

      However, I also have a problem seeing Tyrion make ANY kind of deal with Cersei, the sister who’s tried to have him killed countless times.

      Quite frankly, I’m not sure what to make of it all.

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    241. Mr Derp,

      Oh yeah, I agree, on all fronts. I don’t think Tyrion will act irrationally because of some unrequited love, not do I think he will betray her because she does something insane- Indeed, what might set her over the edge (not all mad queeny, but more pissed off in general) could just be how she handles any betrayal, wrongly perceived as such or otherwise real. A negotiation made behind her back, that doesn’t quite work out. I suspect there may even be some tragic development as a result of yhese good plans gone wrong, something unintended resulting in a threat to someone’s unborn baby… and maybe, just maybe- Dany calls dracarys on somebody.
      (Ahem, tyrion. Unlikely, yes. But maybe)

      Emilia Clark did say she hopes people still like her character at the end… didn’t she?

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    242. Mr Derp,

      Totally. That’s why I think some family/loyalty alliance to undermine Jon and Dany, on Tyrion’s part, is highly unlikely. I just wonder what compromise was cut- we didn’t get to hear what happened in the meeting. As you pointed out, she emerged with an entirely different attitude. And we are led to believe that Tyrion did not disclose the meeting to Jon and Dany, and also looked a bit withdrawn during the boatsex moment, like he’s uncomfortable or at odds with a decision he’s made.

      I am expecting this to be the political twist in the final season. Much more so than “will Sansa be cool with Dany?” Or “what will the parentage reveal bring?” I do, however, expect some infighting in the north over whether or not to accept Dany, as well as some awkward moments as everyone realizes that Jon is now banging his aunt.

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    243. Mango,

      It just happens so that Jon is the best Dany can get in terms of a political alliance. There’s no-one else for her: SweetRobin is affiliated to Jon, Edmure Tully is still married… Dickon Tarly might have been an option but Tarlies took Cersei’s side from the beginning. So, who else is there? Sam? His allegiance lies with Jon anyway. Therefore, the only alliance which makes sense for Dany is with Jon. Littlefinger noticed this immediately. And I’m surprised that Tyrion never brought up this idea.

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    244. Mr Derp:
      Sister Kisser,

      I always thought that Dany’s arc was more about finding herself, finding family, and finding a home.Right now conquering the IT is the only way she thinks that she can do that, but once she finds out she’s not the only Targaryen left then she might come to see things differently.

      This is a great point. Especially so if she becomes pregnant.

      Man. We are under a foot of snow here and the city has shut down (unusual for a coastal, temporal climate with lots of hills and basically no snowplows). I am enjoying being couped up geeking out on this upcoming season. Hard to believe we get the ending so soon!

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    245. Sister Kisser,

      Yes, you are correct. if love and political match happens that is wonderful.

      I am now going to wade into an area I know nothing about. But that has never stopped me before. As for the scowl when Jon went to sleep with Daenerys – I think most people wanted and think it is romantic as they are both beautiful Targs.

      But Tyrion does not know Jon is Targ. However, he knows that Daenerys must make a good political marriage if she is to rule Westeros for a long period. He knows the dragons are vulnerable to weapons. He knows they can be poisoned – he approached them himself. He knows any lover can murder her in the privy. He knows that her current army will be old men in 5 years – armies age. He thinks she will be childless. It will raise her chance of a long peaceful rule if she marries a well-resourced lord that can renew her armies from a local population loyal to this lord. Maybe a true born one with lots of relatives.

      Maybe to Tyrion, Jon looks like another Dario. He does not have a big army, he cannot provide one – thanks to Robb, BoB and the Boltons, there are fewer northern men to provide armies, babies, food, trade. Tyrion knows that. The north is already sparsely populated and about to be ravaged by an army of the dead. Further, Jon swore fealty without insisting on marriage. Jon is already “owned”. Tyrion marrying Sansa was a different calculation. Some-one more sensible can tell us who would be the better marriage candidates but I would consider Tyrion, Jaime, Robin Arryn, Euron and whoever wins the Dornish war if it is a man. Who knows, maybe LF is right and Jon is a great candidate because LF always means well!!!! right?

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    246. Sister Kisser,
      Mr Derp,

      In fact, your interpretations are not quite accurate. Cersei never changed her attitude: she hatched a plan with Euron even before the Dragonpit meeting began and proceeded with it smoothly. Euron was supposed to find a pretext to leave Cersei in order to cover shipment of the Golden Company and he did. Meanwhile, Cersei was supposed to accept Dany’s terms but she had to do it in a believale way; that’s why she played on everyone’s nerves – she knew someone was going to run after her, and then she played Tyrion.
      As for Tyrion, we can imagine what he said to Cersei: that Dany might die in the war against the dead; that, in case of helping the North, Jon would be honor-bound to protect Cersei and seek some sort of accomodation; he could have mentioned that Dany was barren and that Cersei’s child still might end on the throne, etc. Maybe, there were some things Dany wouldn’t have liked had she heard them, but it doesn’t seem like Tyrion made some sort of a treacherous deal: Cersei would have acted different in such case and she wouldn’t confided to Jaime about her true intents. As she did, it implies that she still needed Jaime on her side and with Tyrion that would have been kind of unnecessary.

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    247. Did GOT say anything about what was happening with Highgarden and the Reach?

      The book has lots of lords in the Reach but if Jaime displaced the last of the Tyrells (did he?) then I think the Reach’s paramount lord would have been appointed by him or Cersei and must be loyal to the crown. I am not sure why some think that Sam will be lord of the Reach, he is still a brother in the Watch.

      If they both survive (I know, very unlikely!) then perhaps Jaime can have Highgarden and the Reach and give Casterly Rock to Tyrion. Tyrion really wants it.

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    248. Sister Kisser: I am expecting this to be the political twist in the final season.

      You’re probably right. I think “love is the death of duty” will be a big theme in the final season too. Jon has always chosen duty over love. Will he do the same in season 8 once he finds out he’s the true heir?

      Sister Kisser: I do, however, expect some infighting in the north over whether or not to accept Dany, as well as some awkward moments as everyone realizes that Jon is now banging his aunt.

      I’m curious to see the reactions too, especially from Jon and Dany. I mean, how do you reveal something like that anyway?

      Bran addresses the Winterfell court:

      Bran – “Ok, so everyone who hasn’t had sex with their aunt/nephew step forward…”

      Jon and Dany step forward with a perplexed look on their faces along with most others until Sam reaches out with an open hand signaling for them to stop.

      Sam – “Um, not so fast you two…”

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    249. Inga,

      I will have to go back and watch it again- my impression was that she emerged from the meeting with that air of victory, like she got what she wanted. I assume she knew at that point that she wasn’t going to send her army north to help, but I wondered what else she had negotiated for, and Tyrion has agreed to.
      As for whether or not having Tyrion on board “plan x” negates the need for Jaime’s dedication, I think these are separate issues. She very clearly wants Jaime at her side, for obvious reasons, other than whatever his role in her plan may have been (commanding the forces, etc)

      It may very well be that at some point, Cersei’s treachery becomes apparent, and Dany will question Tyrion’s knowledge of/involvement with. Like I said above, we didn’t see Tyrion disclose anything about his meeting to Jon and Dany- but we should assume he went back to them with some kind of confidence that he had brought Cersei around. How that plays with Cersei’s betrayal is to be seen. I still think he made some kind of concession that Dany in particular, would not approve of. And the fact that we didn’t see the meeting in screen, tells us that something will come of it. Otherwise- why even have the meeting?

      Sigh. I need to watch the season again. On the agenda for next month…

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    250. Sister Kisser,

      I’m trying to remember the details in that scene too. IF there was any agreement between Cersei and Tyrion then I think it would have something to do with the succession plan, which was a touchy topic for Tyrion and Dany this past season.

      I was thinking to myself that maybe Tyrion wants Cersei to abdicate the throne in favor of Dany, but Cersei’s unborn child will take over after Dany dies. This would obviously create a major problem if Dany found out, especially if she actually does get pregnant.

      The only problem is that Tyrion would have to fall for one of Cersei’s lies, and I think Tyrion is too smart to take anything Cersei says at face value. Then again, he did seem to believe that Cersei would actually help the North fight the war against the Others, so I don’t really know what to believe anymore.

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    251. Mango,

      As soon as Jon was acclaimed king in the North he was recognised as a part and even a head ao an extended Stark-Arryn family: Littlefinger “declared to the Starks” by default on behalf of Robyn Arryn as well. And it’s pretty clear that, if Edmure Tully ever comes out of his cell, he will declare to Jon, too. In general, the North was established as the second most important power in the Seven Kingdoms from the very beginning. King Robert wanted to form a marriage alliance twice: first, by marrying Lyanna, later by marrying Joffrey to Sansa (although he could have choasen Margeary). Rhaegar married Lyanna, even though Cersei was always there for him, etc. So,there’s kind of a pattern: marriage between North and South has been considered to be one of the best power matches for decades.
      Now, from Dany’s or Tyrion’s point of view Euron might be the only alternative to Jon (by default there are no more powerful hihglords in the Reach, Dorne, or Stormlands). But Euron would be a very bad choice in terms of PR: the Ironorn are considered to be pillagers and rapists in Westeros and Dany already has too many pillagers and rapists in her ranks. What she need is a man with a good reputation known for being able to control pillagers and rapists and Jon is probably the only one who has that. HotPie spoke of him hilgly; Gendry acted as a total fanboy; so, it’s fair to assume that Jon is popu;ar among the smallfolk in general and lords might be positive about him, too. So, if Dany marries Jon – the most worthy man in the Seven Kingdoms – her reputation should improve considerably. So, where’s the problem?

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    252. Mr Derp,

      Well, they still have wall. Broken but still there. Needs even more watching.

      If all the wildings and WW are gone then maybe a wall may no longer be needed. Not sure if they rebuild.

      However, I would still expect the crown and warden of the north to want an “extreme north” security/military contingent. Thus old Watch may evolve into a new role still at the “wall”. Just how the “orders of person” that went crusading in the middle ages managed to evolve into some “loyalty societies” still powerful today in Europe. But Sam may get away and back to his home.

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    253. Mango,

      Yea, it all depends on where the show goes with everything, but I expect Sam to be a maester of some kind at the end. Whether that’s the maester of WF, Castle Black, the Citadel, or Horn Hill, I don’t know.

      If he’s a maester of the Night’s Watch at the end then he couldn’t inherit any land or titles anyway, so I guess that would mean Horn Hill would go to his mother and sister I suppose.

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    254. Mr Derp,

      Yes, you are prolly right.

      If they do not tell us the details then someone should ask him to make up some creative story for Sam when he speaks at COT in July!

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    255. Inga,

      Tywin wanted Tyrion to marry Sansa because of the north’s strategic value. However, the realities of the north have changed. Further, Daenerys has different strategic considerations compared to Tywin, Robert, Rhaegar etc. All these had armies and supporting populations from other parts of Westeros. Daenerys does not – she needs things that the north is not the best situated to provide at the moment. Further, more importantly, she already HAS the north because Jon has already sworn to her. She can marry Jon for love but marrying him will not give anything he has not already given to her.

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    256. Inga,

      I am not sure that the lords are that wild about Jon. Sansa has been struggling to keep them patient.

      I would not rely on the Vale will to take instructions from Starks/Jon. Catelyn went to ask Lyssa for help from the Vale army, Lyssa said nope. They are not vassals to the Starks.

      Jon was considered a second rate bastard most of his life and many of the northern lords refused to join his fight with Ramsay – I am not sure what convinced you that Jon was well known, loved and popular. More likely – most of Westeros has never heard of him and do not care.

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    257. I expect the line of succession to play a key role in Tyrion maybe flipping on Dany. That could be that he promised Cersei that her child could get the Throne since Dany is believed to be barren. But I definitely expect there to be tension when Jaime arrives. Will Tyrion caution him not to tell that Cersei won’t send help for fear that the two of them will be blamed and viewed as only spies for Cersei?

      Will the Golden Company come but actually stab the North in the back when they least expect it? Thus causing Dany to blame Tyrion? Will Tyrion and Varys really start to scheme if they learn Jon has a better claim? Will he push for a Jon & Sansa union? Jon and anybody but Dany because he believes she’s still barren? Will he scheme to have all the players wiped out leaving him & Sansa? There are many ways that Tyrion could turn and Peter has the acting chops to pull them all off.

      The likes of Tyrion, Varys, Sansa, Bran, & Sam won’t be fighting. So they’ll need some major suspense angles to keep them relevant. I expect Jon’s claim, the succession after Dany, and Cersei’s betrayal will be their primary story angle and Tyrion will be at the heart and center of those storylines.

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    258. Mango,

      Dany’s “grip” on the North rests entirely on Jon’s good will. If Jon dies, she’ll lose it. However, if she marries Jon, even in case of his death, she’ll maintain certain rights as a dowager queen in the North.

      As for the northern lords being unhappy with Jon, the show failed to make it clear what provoked it, but I assume it was Jon’s decision to go on a wight hunt and treat with Cersei. And in this context the northern lords and Yohn Royce were right: Jon took a great risk, although everyone who knew Cersei could say that that would be all in vain. However, Jon made it out alive and got two unexpected gains: Dany and Jaime. So, the lords will be back on his side. Sure, it’s all complicated but if Dany shows a due respect and appreciation to the North, they should be fine. And marrying Jon would be one of the best ways to show that respect and appreciation.

      Aegon the IceDragon,

      IMO, the most realistic “treason” Tyrion may committ is concealing Cersei’s treason. I think both he and Jaime will be trying to cover Cersei somehow: Dany is “impulsive” and Jon won’t tolerate the treason either. Meanwhile, Cersei is pregnant – even if she miscarries, they won’t know; so, they will be inclined to protect her and the baby. And that may lead to some very dire consequences, as Cersei won’t miss a chance to backstab her enemies usiing the Golden Company or whatever. And then Tyrion will have to answer for that, but his crime won’t be a malicious treason but rather inability to make an impossible choice between friends and family.

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    259. Sister Kisser,

      I wasn’t referring specifically to you when I made that comment.

      I actually like the caveats you included whereby Tyrion may end up wronging Daenerys or driving a wedge between them despite his intentions being good. I think that would be appropriately nuanced for Tyrion’s character and this story.

      It’s just my experience from reading around the internet that the general eagerness to see Tyrion emerge as having conspired against Dany (and Jon) for his family, because of jealousy, because of a thirst for power etc. comes from people that appear eager to see Dany’s image untarnished, first and foremost.

      The convoluted and illogical attempts to absolve her of responsibility for the implications of her decisions, like going north of the Wall, and shift them onto someone else (e.g. Tyrion) appear to support that case.

      Aegon the IceDragon,

      Tyrion having come up with the wight hunt is beside the point. There’s nothing pre-wight hunt to suggest any ulterior motive on Tyrion’s behalf and his advice to Dany against going north of the Wall is logical and consistent with what he’d been saying all season.

      Perhaps GRRM will make Tyrion more obviously morally questionable in the remaining novels, as you say, so that the possibility of him turning on Dany out of self-interest or jealousy is more credible. But for Tyrion as depicted on the show there is next to nothing to suggest any existing duplicity during the course of Season 7.

      If something develops in Season 8 then its roots may be traceable back to events in Season 7. I actually believe that will be the case. But attempts to preemptively paint Tyrion’s actions as nefarious based on the existing motives and timeline portrayed in Season 7 don’t hold water.

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    260. Inga: Cersei is pregnant – even if she miscarries, they won’t know; so, they will be inclined to protect her and the baby.

      I don’t get all this extrapolation that anyone is going to jump through any hoops to protect Cersei because she is (allegedly) pregnant. Both Jaime and Tyrion are young enough to father children and could marry after the war, if preserving the Lannister family name is their concern. Jaime has forsaken the white cloak, so should not have any qualms about marrying once he is truly able to separate himself emotionally from his sister. And it seems entirely in character that Tyrion, at this point, would think it a good thing to have the family name die out. When he said “You know how I love my family” in S1, he was laying on the sarcasm very thickly. And that was even before Cersei tried to have him killed in the Battle of the Blackwater and then executed for a crime in which she knew all the evidence to be manufactured.

      The only piece of this line of thinking that seems at all persuasive to me is that the motivation to save her baby/guarantee its future might’ve been a handle that Tyrion could’ve used to try to get Cersei to play nicely, but it seems like a real stretch – what American football fans call a Hail Mary pass. The notion that he would trust her any farther than he could throw her contravenes everything that we know about Tyrion thus far.

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    261. Inga,

      Let me focus on what we agree on – Jon and Daenerys belong together. I am sure we agree on that for different reasons.

      My version – I think Jon and Daenerys belong together because of their purpose in complementary. Jon is Lightbringer and his role is to divert the dragons and armies to their purpose of fighting the others. He is a fire wight revived by the Lord of Light for his life’s purpose. Daenerys is also saved from a fire pyre and given dragons for a purpose. She is to save – not to conquer Westeros.

      After the war with the dead, will these two rule Westeros?. That is up to GRRM’s story and his love for the Targs so it may be possible. My view is that they both exit – perhaps die.

      Daenerys’ dream saw her with a husband and child as she moved away from the throne. (I do not assume that the husband has to be Drogo) So who knows?

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    262. I am with you and was thinking the same if Cersei is pregnant most likely she would be given a stay of execution to give birth before execution. There is no way in my mind Jon would have her killed before that, Dany maybe but although impulsive she isn’t totally without compassion even if it’s someone else decision (assuming both Jon and Dany are dead which is worst case scenario) I cannot imagine Sansa, Sam, Arya, Tyrion, Bran not allowing the baby to be born either.

      If Cersei lives through the battle at Kings Landing then I do expect a trial and execution but more likely she dies before that. Either way I don’t expect her to survive the series.

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    263. Mango,

      I concur and I hope that both Jon & Dany survive and live squabbling with each other at least till the age of 80. I wouldn’t mind them dying, too, but that would be equally archetypical and I expect some twist at the end. Moreover, Jaime looks like a much better candidate to die heroicly and we need some survivors too. So, I hope Jon & Dany to make the sweet part of the ending, and all the bitterness and twists should come from other storylines.

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