![GOT_MP_092315_EP606-3196[1]](http://watchersonthewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/GOT_MP_092315_EP606-31961.jpg)
“I take what is mine.”
An old foe comes back into the picture. Gilly meets Sam’s family. Arya faces a difficult choice. Jaime faces off against the High Sparrow.
Have a look at the official episode photos here.
“Blood of My Blood” is Jack Bender’s second and final episode this season. It’s also Bryan Cogman’s first round as writer this season, which is something I think we’ve all been looking forward to.
Cian: The confrontation on the steps of the Sept of Baelor is something that pretty much all of the pre-season trailers hyped up. Whatever else ends up happening, I’m just looking forward to the grand unveiling of Mace Tyrell in all his feathered-helmed splendour. I also can’t wait to see the show’s version of Randyll Tarly. With Bryan handling his introduction (in what seems to be a dinner scene, nonetheless!), I’m sure it will be very memorable indeed.
Hold the door
So effing excited for this.
Original.
Ravigotto,
Good night, sweet prince.
NOT NOW MACE!
Randyll Tarly is the thing I look foward the most!!
I think will have a funny scene where Sam’s mother/sister dress up Gilly and Sam will be stunned when he sees her!!
So we’re finally going to find out who’s the rider that lits that wight on fire.
I’m betting on a certain Stark.
My bet is Cersei knows from Tommen that the sparrows want to let Margaery go because she and Loras will join the Seven. That was Margaery’s idea to escape from there with his brother. That was the High Sparrows’s secret, but of course Cersei lied to Olenna that ”Margaery will do the walk” because Cersei wants the Tyrells and the sparrows to fight against each other.
Wild speculation : Benjen will save Bran and Meera.
Wilder speculation : he will be there because Bran will somehow tell a Young Benjen that he’ll need him to be there in the future.
Even wilder speculation : Bran is actually the reason why Benjen joined the NW in the first place.
Unrelated wild speculation : Bran will be stuck in his visions for quite some time, and might even never wake up. From now on, we’ll see how he actually contributed to the story by altering events in the past.
Look at this awesome cover of You Win or You Die!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QahVz0ZcifQ
It really captures GOT feelings!
Hi watchers! 🙂
Just wanted to share with you again the questions about the sixth episode regarding the online game with HBO Hungary for some speculation, this week’s questions are:
– Will Arya poison her target?
– Will Margaery take her own walk of atonement?
– Will Meera sacrifice herself to save Bran?
I really hope the last one is false, there are enough characters who already died for Bran and because of his mistake.
What do you think watchers? 🙂
Randyll Tarly and hopefully
hahaha, mace in full gear will be funny as hell too! This is gonna be another fantastic episode!
zod,
I also agree (or hope?) that we’re stuck in Bran’s visions for a while – we did see Meera trying to wake him in the preview after all.
I seriously doubt Bran is never going to wake up though as D&D have previously said they aren’t too keen on flashbacks as a cinematic device.
Bran to wake up once he’s found out what he (and everyone else) needs to know!
zod,
OMG I love this theory and can totally see this happening, HYPE!
Morgoth,
My brother thinks it will be Howland Reed, as they introduced him in ep3. I have no idea what he’d be doing north of the Wall, but I’m sure they could make up a reason.
No nudity in ep6, so Maergery will not be doing a walk of atonement. Damn!
zod,
I hope he’s not stuck in visions
And I think he is awake next episode.. So..
I am looking forward to Gilly cleaned and dressed up the most! 🙂
I will be really amused – in a good way – if this is true. I suspect it can be! With Hodor’s life and death, a gigantic can of sci-fi has been opened up!
luki17,
Yes.
No.
No.
luki17,
A triple no, my friend. 🙂
Really only looking forward to Bran/Meera and a possible vision.
zod,
In the trailer he’s still greensee-ing. Hopefully, he finds his totem in there.
Flayed Potatoes,
Lancel vs Gregor should be pretty great too, if it happens this episode. Also the “old foe”
On board ship, Gilly called Sam “the father of my son”. The camera panned to little Sam, but my suspicion immediately was that Gilly is pregnant.
Maybe when the Tyrell soldiers threaten the High Sparrow and his followers, the people and civilians of King’s Landing attack the soldiers thus starting a civil war in the capital.
Another thought concerning Dany: I believe she will eventually turn out to be the main antagonist of the story. I mean she really is a conqueror by now, just cares about her self-interest in taking what is anyways hers (following her statement in the teaser) and killed all dothraki leaders simply because she could do so now commanding their people to fight a war for her they never wanted to. IMO this would be a nice twist and story shift as Dany as the innocent girl that she started out to be and everyone thought to be honourable and morally good (freeing slaver’s bay, sparing the dothraki women from being slaughtered as it is usually custom, etc.) turns the egomanic power-seeking and dragon controlling bad woman. I think that would be something GRRMartin would do instead of having her hero-like arrive in Westeros ready to be embraced by everyone.
Thoughts on that?
I AM STILL CURLED UP IN A BALL CRYING HOW CAN I WATCH THE NEXT EPISODE
Who will be the ‘old foe’? The Hound?!? Hyppeeeeee!
So Gregor still has to go up against some Sparrows with the nails in 2×4 looking weapon. In the trailer, he has dents from one of those weapons while Cersei is walking into what appears to be the sept, mirrored by Tommen walking. I assume this will happen next episode or so, after what goes down in this one with Margaery.
zod,
I will sign on with this. I said last week that I think he’s been holed up in a cave somewhere lol.
Hawk,
Yea, good catch on that, or whoever mentioned it in the screenshot post. I’m almost certain it will be Lancel due to that one image.
I’m mainly interested in Bran and Sam for this episode, as well as “Jansavos” if they appear. Or I should say that’s by far what I’m most interested in, but Arya should be good too, and if the old foe is Walder Frey, I’m all in for that as well.
I’d be way more hyped up for the showdown in King’s Landing if that story hadn’t been so lackluster this season, but hopefully I’ll be back on board by the end of it all.
Couldn’t care less about Dany being smug again, so hopefully she’ll have something interesting to do after she and Daario have finished ogling each other. The title would suggest some Dothraki action.
Do you think we’ll get a follow up on Yara and Theon, with them possibly deciding to head for Slaver’s Bay ?
So I´m pretty sure Bran can´t wake up if he isn´t “connected” to some tree-network, right?
what if he goes to the weirwood tree in Winterfell, in the vision, and tries to wake up but he someway goes back to the Tower of Joy flashback, and we see the rest of the vision inside?
One of Roose Bolton’s 20 good leeches,
Great as in Jared Leto getting beat up in Fight Club, right? No chance for Lancel against Franken Gregor. Maybe if it was old Gregor, he’d laugh to death when Lancel showed up.
Could “Blood of my Blood” be another trip to the tower of joy?
Maybe the Freys? Did they control Riverrun since the Red Wedding and does it follow that – when the Blackfish took back Riverrun – that the Freys are driven away then?
From the second trailer we know that the Freys will come back some time – also Pod was seen within the Lannister camp with Bronn (?) having him in a headlock. Is Brienne arriving in the Lannister camp or going to meet the Tullies? Or both? What’s your speculation there? (If you do know the answer from the books, please use spoiler tags though :p I would prefer not to know the ‘correct’ answer, just some wild speculation^^ )
Daenerys killed all the Khals SIMPLY BECAUSE? 😀 all right, if you say so. The Khals were such good guys, so awesome, treated everyone so nicely, and BAD, BAD Daenerys killed them, simply to take an army to fight her war for her. (Sansa, on the other hand, is awesomely good for wanting Jon’s Wildling friends to fight a war for her, in which no doubts they will die by the hundreds . 😉 )
And the nice twist if Danerys turns out to be THE BIG BAD at this point will really not be a twist at all, for the legions of book fans who desperately hope for such an outcome and have been posting it for the last six years! 🙂 Let’s have it then, Jon and Sansa and Arya (and ONLY those three) holding hands and making a happy alliance with the WWs to take out Big Bad Daenerys and her dragons……… 🙂
Have you read the books? Not criticising if you haven’t – it’s just that in the books (I can say this without being “spoilery” I feel) the reader knows that Mace was a competent fighter and soldier in his younger days (Loras had to get his aptitude as a knight from somewhere) though he has run to fat when he got older (well old enough to have grown up children – though book Maergery is younger than her show counterpart).
Both show and book Maergery are “as crafty as a cartload of monkeys” to quote an old simile so I could see Maergery pretending to embrace the Faith Militant to get out of the pokey.*
*Slang for jail – it’s getting a bit old-fashioned now though.
Oh, I hope not. I’d be really bummed if this story turns into more science fiction than historical fantasy. Bran altering events needs to be kept to an absolute minimum or it all becomes very cheesy.
Tycho Nestoris,
Seeing Gregor fuck shit up is good regardless. I don’t think Lancel is that bad. I mean he actually tried to fight at the Battle of the Blackwater and was doing pretty well until he got an arrow in his armpit.
One of Roose Bolton’s 20 good leeches,
For sure. Even since Blackwater he’s sharpened his edges.
Firannion,
Re Historical Fantasy and Science Fiction,
These seem similar to me. I am a sci-fi fan though so I could just be biased.
Cogman often struggles with original material, so it will be interesting to see how he copes now that the show has passed the books.
Looking forward to meeting the Tarlys, and the confrontation with the Faith Militant. Dany doesn’t look quite so interesting, but should be a good episode overall.
His totem? You mean an animal spirit guide? Are you thinking the shade of Summer, or something else? Ice dragon?
An ice spider the size of a hound skittering along at Bran’s side might be fun, if they made it loyal and sort of cute, rather than the scary giant spiders that we’ve already seen done to death in the Potter and Tolkien franchises.
At least it wasn’t an arrow to the knee.
Well it’s really just wild speculation, and I don’t believe it 100% myself. In any case, I can’t wait to see what’s next for Bran (and I never thought I’d ever say that tbh… ;p).
JemFX,
I am thinking Walder Frey and Blackfish, quick scenes just to get us reintroduced to the characters
as for your second question…they are off books with Brienne so this is all show based speculation..
Brienne is heading for Riverrun.. as to whether it is Jamie or The Blackfish she meets when she gets there will of course depend on when she gets there. (my bet is on Jamie)
Also maybe Benjen.
I’d be all for a cute, giant, ice spider!! He can ride one like the Walkers in Old Nan’s story.
gewa76,
Isn’t he a greenseer of lesser ability? Or could he be a warg who was hanging out in one of the cave ravens to keep tabs on Bran’s quest progression?
Something happened when he visited the Isle of Faces prior to the infamous Harrenhall tourney… that’s the rumoured location of some CotF.
Firannion,
Oh wow those are cool ideas. I was making an Inception joke.
Oh, sorry, missed that – I’ve only seen bits of Inception.
But really, if Bran is going to be a shaman, he needs a familiar or spirit guide, and he has lost his direwolf. I suppose he stands to inherit at least one talking raven, though.
All these are entirely possible given last weekend events.
Even WILDER speculation (hold tight):
1. The Wall falls due either to Bran being marked by the NK or because the magic binding it is gone with the extinction of the COTF.
2. Bran is Bran the Builder- he communicated with the COTF to build the Wall in the first place. Another temporal loop.
Boom.
I keep thinking of the Luggage in the Discworld books or the Woola in the John Carter of Mars stories: an adorable ferocious monster sidekick that acts like a goofy puppy with its master and tears anybody who threatens him to shreds.
CONFIRMED LOCATIONS: Braavos, King’s Landing, Horn Hill, Dothraki Sea, Beyond the Wall
CONFIRMED CHARACTERS: Arya Stark, Lady Crane, Jaime Lannister, Cersei Lannister, Tommen Baratheon, Margaery Tyrell, The High Sparrow, Mace Tyrell, Septa Unella, Lancel Lannister, Samwell Tarly, Gilly, Randyll Tarly, Dickon Tarly, Daenerys Targaryen, Daario Naharis, Bran Stark, Meera Reed, Young Eddard Stark.
PRESUMED/SPECULATIVE CHARACTERS: Jaqen H’ghar, The Waif, Kevan Lannister, Grand Maester Pycelle, Olenna Tyrell, Gregor Clegane, Qyburn, Jorah Mormont, WALDER FREY, BENJEN STARK, LYANNA STARK.
RIDING THE BENCH/UNCONFIRMED: Jon Snow, Sansa Stark, Davos Seaworth, Melisandre, Brienne of Tarth, Tormund Giantsbane, Dolorous Edd, Podrick Payne, Ramsay Bolton, Rickon Stark, Theon Greyjoy, Yara Greyjoy, Euron Greyjoy, Tyrion Lannister, Varys, Grey Worm, Missandei.
PREDICTIONS:
Braavos: Arya attends a second performance of the play seen in The Door. When the play ends, she will go backstage to perform the assassination. She almost certainly will have to face whether to go through with it. This whole setup is clearly meant to challenge Arya in many ways; her sense of justice, her remaining family, her desire for vengeance. I suspect she will talk directly with Lady Crane this time, and whether as a result of her words or Arya’s refusal to betray her own sense of justice, she will decide not to kill her. The Waif will be keeping tabs on her, and it won’t take long for word to get back to Jaqen of Arya’s failure.
Horn Hill: Sam and Gilly will arrive at Horn Hill and be greeted warmly by Sam’s mother and sister. Things will deteriorate rapidly once Randyll arrives. He will be disgusted by everything about Sam: his reappearance at Horn Hill, his Wildling “bride and son,” and his plans to become a Maester for the Night’s Watch. There has to be some larger point to include this storyline so late into the proceedings, so I expect some sort of revelation here that is difficult if not impossible to predict.
Dothraki Sea: A relatively brief check in with Team Dany. She will have her chat with Daario that we see in the promo, and I am pretty sure it will be here we see Drogon again. It may be that there is some serious tension when Drogon reappears, as he likely will not understand who all these people following Mommy are. It should be confirmed that Dany is taking her khalasar back to Meereen.
Beyond the Wall: We’ll pick up where we left off at the end of The Door, with Meera fleeing and Bran still in his vision. There are many things Bran might be seeing in his visions, but we know that Young Ned will be in there somewhere, briefly. Tower of Joy? Tourney at Harrenhal? Some other vision, possibly establishing the young adult Lyanna? Who knows! In the present, Meera will continue running from the wights, but as she is no Hodor she will not get to safety. When all seems lost, a mysterious man on horseback will arrive and drive off the wights. I’d bet my left arm at this point the mysterious rider is Benjen Stark. Will Bran come out of his vision in this episode? I know not.
King’s Landing: I expect we’ll see some build up to the major set piece of the episode at the Sept of Baelor. Could be this is where we see Cersei’s pep talk to Jaime, and Tommen meeting with the High Sparrow. Maybe we’ll even get to see Mace put on his ludicrous helmet! Since it appears that Tommen comes out in support of the High Sparrow, I expect the HS will let Tommen see Margaery again, along with a healthy dose of manipulation. Marge will probably do some manipulation of her own, definitely to Tommen and maybe even the High Sparrow. Jaime and the Tyrell troops will arrive at the Sept ready to spill blood, but the High Sparrow will know exactly how to avoid bloodshed while also making the Tyrells and Jaime appear the aggressors. I am genuinely unsure of how the situation will resolve, but it seems clear that it will end with the High Sparrow in an even more powerful position in the city, and the Tyrells likely neutralized as an impediment to the power that be in King’s Landing. Whether this happens through bloodshed or some other means, as the result of Lannister or Sparrow machinations, is unclear.
POSSIBLE DEATHS: Loras Tyrell, Mace Tyrell, Margaery Tyrell, Olenna Tyrell, Tommen Baratheon, Kevan Lannister, Grand Maester Pycelle, Lancel Lannister.
Yep, this is what I most look forward too.
Please, no more eye-crushing though.
JemFX,
No way they would go that way and have the entire universe treat accuse them of misogyny.
luki17,
– Will Arya poison her target? No
– Will Margaery take her own walk of atonement? No
– Will Meera sacrifice herself to save Bran? No. She will be ready to sacrifice herself but she will be save. I hope Howland Reed didn’t send both his children to die. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if she is left behind … this is GOT. Valar Morghulis.
Hawk,
Hahahah Skyrim reference? 😀
I’d say Walder Frey, as much as I would love to see the Hound again.
We were reminded of Blackfish and Riverrun on the last episode, Brienne is on her way… The late Walder Frey is soon to make his reappearance.
Exactly.
All I know that if Margery dies by beheading after proclaiming her innocence and love for the King I will be pissed. Because it’s twice for this actress now! Also because I don’t want M to die. 🙁
Randyl Fucking Tarly!
luki17,
1. Nope
2. Nope
3. Nope
Shes got a plan that seems to make everything go wrong for HS
Can’t wait to see it
I think he will return in episode 7. The name fits perfectly also i simply can’t see the hound as a foe anymore. He got treated like shit his whole life.
LOL, so have many of us. If I remember correctly, Marge was urging Loras to stay strong because she wanted to continue fighting the HS and the Septa. But Loras is thoroughly done and kept pleading with her to just make it stop. At the very end of that scene, you see a little look of decision on her face. She will get Loras out in any way she can, and she has decided exactly what to do. If she joins the ranks of sparrows, it’s mostly to save Loras; she wanted to keep fighting.
I actually had a little more respect for Mace after last season. Olenna treats him as if he is a silly child, and many of us were inclined to accept her assessment, but he managed to get to Bravos, deal with the Iron Bank successfully, and get his old ass home safely, even without Meryn Trant.
Olenna is starting to grate on my nerves; I won’t be quite as sad to see her go as I would have been before. I do think that Cersei is going to somehow manage that this season. I think Olenna is a goner. I hope that bell-ringing bitch of a Septa is too. She now has both Cersei and Margaery on her case.
Arya’s decision.. whether to kill the woman or not? Do we want her to fail then flee? Sooner she leaves Jaqen the better!
Somehow irrelevant but it is an interesting article: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.721668
Actually if we are going to see Meereen in the next episode I would really like to see Ania and not Tyrion… And Quaithe.
luki17,
Thronetender,
I enjoy Olenna a lot and I don’t see her a goner. I think that she and Margery will survive the mess. Loras would have had a better chance if he had found the Cheeseboy and left with him to Highgarden…
Raynald Westerling,
And the waif will come after her! Would fit perfectly with the scene in the trailer of Arya jumping around.
luki17,
Hi! 🙂
I’m guessing “no” to all three questions.
I’d been trying to figure out who the person we saw in the trailer could be if it isn’t
dothrakian raven,
They send a whole Tyrell army into Kings Landing. After they have dealt with the High Sparrow will they just give everything to Cersei and leave? I very much doubt it. The Tyrells will take over Kings Landing.
JonFookinSnow,
I know but at the same time the Tyrels is the only family that hasn’t lost a single member so far. I reckon that Loras is a goner and so it is Mace. If the rumors that had Rigg in Spain were correct she will probably head to Dorne to meet the dornish pussy riots. If Varys is going there too then we might have the saviours of Dorne… Big ifs though…
By the old gods and the new (with a little help fro HBO Nordic) may the 6th episode leak early sunday so us europeans can watch it like normal people.
dothrakian raven,
I don’t know. Mace looks pretty badass with his feathery helmet 😀
JonFookinSnow,
OH yes I keep forgetting about the trailer glimpses. I think that’s it
JonFookinSnow,
Mace the Featherslayer or the Slayer with Feathers!
This is exactly my fear. I hope for more visuals and less dialog. I still recall some of Cogman’s Meereen dialog in past seasons – just plain bad! But the scene of Tyrion and Jorah through Valyria was by Cogman and one of my all-time favorites, so hopefully more of those types of scenes.
i predict more yapping from dany about blablablabla fire and blood blablablabla i take what is mine, blablablablabla citing her titles
Is it possible for Jaime to ride his horse up those steps?
Firannion,
Discworld… nice. I’d settle for Binky. My first car was named Binky…
I agree! She’s a conqueror but never will be a ruler. Definitely not a good one.
JonFookinSnow,
Most of the conquerors were also effective rulers some for a long time some for short time. There are no “good” rulers. If one reads history, that is…
I’m nervous for kings landing
I hate cersei so much but I have a feeling she is going to be very happy next episode
Ugh I’m so over her and her shenanigans
Danys the best – can’t wait for her scenes !!
Edit: second best to any stark 😉
I feel you…
This is the first year I’m working during GoT period and I still am awake monday mornings at 4 am…
I think my monday work-productivity would greatly thank HBO Nordic if they do us the same favour than last week !
Oh, yes….I would say these are definite. Notice the WW’s didn’t rush to catch Bran and Meera? The NK Mark/Homing device will work just fine in not only finding them, but allowing them through the wall. Although, I am not entirely convinced the CoTF are all dead yet. Here’s hoping, anyway.
dothrakian raven,
I don’t like her. She will be instrumental in the war against the White Walkers i think. But i don’t want to see her or any other Targaryen on the throne. Let Sansa Stark be queen of Westeros! And that’s just my opinion, before i get attacked again.
Dame of Mercia,
Yes I am a book reader but I couldn’t imagine ‘show Mace’ ever being much of a warrior from what we’ve seen of him. I think he might show his house up in this episode (and/or die).
I see peeps are racking their brains to see who will save Bran… if I could warg into animals and do all the things Bran can do (because who knows what the limit of his powers actually is) I’d try to help myself if I was being chased across a frozen wasteland by an army of zombies! Just sayin’ don’t rule out Bran doing a Daenerys!
I am always hype for a new Game of Thrones episode. Makes sundays great.
I hope Mace Tyrell sings a song.
All I really want is for Bran to warg the Night’s King and break out into a jaw-dropping Highland dance routine.
JonFookinSnow,
imo Gendry would make the best King of the potentials. Sure he was handed a job but he worked at it and became really quite good. Jon and Daenerys are too serious about themselves to be good rulers.
Little secret though, I am kinda rooting for the team that wants to plant more trees.
The two most annoying segments of the GOT-ASOIAF fan base are the irrational Dany haters and the irrational Sansa lovers. This season is bringing out droves of both.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Was there any indication of the actor who plays Benjen ever being spotted at the filming locations for the north?
Could Ozge Gurel be the older Lyanna Stark? She looks like she would fit the bill, plus she’s gorgeous as well. Just speculation, could be someone else though
http://www.turkishdrama.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/cherry-season-ozge-gurel-03.jpg
We get to see Mace’s amazing feathered helmet!
Esmail,
No, at least not that I can recall, and there’s no way I wouldn’t recall that! It’s one of the reasons I keep telling myself not to get too excited to see him. That, and, other than thinking they easily could have come up with something else to lure Jon out in last season’s finale, the stuff this season could be explained as nothing other than, well, we were flashing back to Winterfell, so it’s only logical to include the younger brother.
What’s Randyll Tarly doing at Horn Hill having dinner with Sam and Gilly? Shouldn’t he be at King’s Landing leading the Tyrell special forces? If rescuing your liege lord’s only heirs isn’t enough to summon Westeros’s finest military commander to active duty, then I don’t know what is.
“Sit this one out, Randyll. I got this.” -Mace
ugashep,
You like every character?
Add: Mace’s plumed helmet, which deserves a place of its own in the end credits.
Alternatively: The wrong person drinks the poisoned rum, which I think has been at least slightly foreshadowed. It might be accidental: The dwarf actor, hoping to impress Lady Crane, decides to expand his range of alcoholic tastes, like a wannabe Tyrion. Or Arya might deliberately or impulsively make the assassination plan go awry to spare Lady Crane, and then tell Jaqen that it was an accidental switch. Is she a skilled enough liar yet to avert his wrath? Probably not. A girl has had two chances. There will not be a third.
I’m really looking forward to this dysfunctional family dinner. Will dear sweet clueless Gilly ask someone to “Please pass the shiksa” like Annie Hall?
My prediction linking this scene to the larger story has to do with the fact that Valyrian steel is direly needed up North, and Sam’s brother Dickon is the heir to Heartsbane, which is presumably kept at Horn Hill. While Randyll will scoff at Gilly’s tales of Sam the Slayer, Dickon will believe them and – wanting to be a hero too, and of an age to be itching for adventure – decide to grab the sword and head for the Wall, whether grumpy ol’ Dad likes it or not. Randyll won’t, of course, but a summons to the capital from Lady Olenna will interrupt his tantrums. And then Sam will be faced with a very hard decision: whether to go to the Citadel as charged and find the secret to saving the Seven Kingdoms, or stay at Horn Hill to help defend the womenfolk.
Tycho Nestoris,
Show Gendry showed no other quality than just a capable smith. A typical lad who doesn’t even understand the world he lives in. The show didn’t make any effort to emphasize him having any quality as a leader/ruler. He just does as the others tell him.
Well, Jon rides a big black steed, doesn’t he? Nothing stopping fandom from dubbing it Binky among ourselves! : )
https://youtu.be/JLDuW8CFRD8
😀
I’d get up and dance too, if that happened! The NK does wear a kind of kilty-looking thing.
dothrakian raven,
That’s a harsh assessment. He has other qualities (humility for example) and is a friend to those in need (arry and later hot pie). I am not saying they emphasized his leadership because other than Tywin (and maybe Roose or Beric) no one has really been emphasized as a capable leader. Jon and Daenerys have struggled mightily in this regard.
Did no one notice the Night King’s smirk last episode?
Photo: https://i.redditmedia.com/eG4C1S4UgvrwVaY6VHWy8Wn30ZKd5CSq_6D_I9GZ8Z4.jpg?w=1024&s=e389c04424bbd1d775832e61f6d1cdd5
Agreed. People keep saying that they hope Cersei’s face is indeed the last thing Septa Unella ever sees, because the Shame Nun is so annoying; but I’d prefer the irony of having it go the other way ’round. (How that scenario fits in with the Valonqar Prophecy seems fuzzy, however.)
He kinda looks like Freddie Krueger in that shot.
Benjen will show up–with eventually a damn good/awesome reason for not going back to the Wall since season 1. He’ll save the exhausted Meera and vision-questing Bran. I’m 99.2% sure of this since he was used to draw Jon out end of last season and he’s been in most of the flashbacks as a child.
Bran visions: brief Ned ToJ that will be both wonderful and not enough somewhere in this episode lol? Mad king death-maybe a few other things as the “upload” continues.
I feel like Marg won’t do the walk and there is a twist. As a side note, no one gives her enough credit for her particular skill in the game. She is a fantastic people reader and knows how to be/say exactly what they need her to (think back to her open acceptance of Renly’s sexuality, her obedient maiden/train-able killer act “would you like to watch me kill something?” with Joffrey, and her kind and sweet wooing of Tommen). She wants to save her family and the High Sparrow seems to be a LOT more kindly disposed to her than he was to Cersei. I think he does want royalty on the side of the Seven–she can make him believe he has that with her.
Despite that, I have a bad feeling Olenna might outlast the rest of the Tyrells currently in KL.
I also feel like High Sparrow is going to reveal some disturbing things to Tommen and hopefully Jaime about Cersei. And I don’t think he’ll let her have her trial by combat, because FrankenMountain could easily crush anyone. He wants the actual religious trial. I know it’s law if she demands it, but is there a precedent for a king and a septon jointly denying it? If so…
I remember what Sam’s father said to him to send him to the watch. “At least, that’s what I’ll tell your mother”. This dinner will not go well, no matter what Sam and Gilly say. Think Tywin and Tyrion’s chat about Casterly Rock. I don’t think the trio will stay beyond that horrible dining experience-but I do think someone (the family Maester? His mother? Sam the Slayer himself) might make sure he has the sword Heartsbane. He could send it to Edd on the Wall since they have no Valyrian steel or obsidian. OR he could run into Gendry the smith in Oldtown and they could figure out how to make more. Yes…that last bit was just hopeful rambling. I miss Gendry.
Arya is not going to kill the nice actress. She’s never going to be a true FM and I’m glad. She might kill the Waif though, but probably not this episode? One way or another, a face will be added…
I think we don’t have too much time with Dany, despite Blood of my Blood. I think we hear enough to know she is done compromising. She is just going to wreck sh** with fire and blood.
I’m hoping we get Jon dialogue in the North on the way to friendly houses. He barely spoke last episode. I think we might also get Davos seeing Shireen’s “grave” from the trailers, though that might not happen yet.
I’m still sad about Hodor. Maybe at some point BR’s voice is going to be in Bran’s head, to help him process it and learn from it. “We watch, we listen and we remember” -we don’t go messing with time and destroying people’s lives, Bran! Got it?
I don’t think that is a safe assumption…
Connor,
I noticed. And I noticed that none of the wights went near BR. He wanted to kill him himself. Which is a story I want more of. 🙂
Mace Tyrell gonna sing and entire King’s Landing will burn down into ashes.
You know how some opera singers can break glass by hitting and holding certain notes? Maybe Mace will discover that he can shatter WWs/Others that way. The South’s secret weapon.
Connor,
I most certainly did, as soon as I saw the scene. I was really glad to see that they are showing the WW have different emotions, such as pride, arrogance, anger, concern, etc… That smug smile was perfect.
RG,
Bloodraven died with many secrets unrevealed. I think there is some history between him and the Night King.
whats the name of the soundtrack used in the preview? anyone knows?
Tycho Nestoris,
But we haven’t seen him doing anything the last 3 seasons. It is out of question seeing him again probably next season just 13 episodes before the end of the GOT as an accomplished leader because he has humility. Jon and Dany have gone through a hell of a life being leaders all the time in a variety of situations. When Jon becomes skeptical of the power he has it is because he has felt this power to his bones and has seen the futility of it in the manner of a Marcus Aurelius. When Dany says “I take what is mine” it is not just a badass answer to Daario it is a statement that she knows who she is and what she wants and how to get it like a byzantine queen or princess in the C14th Italy. It is much more complex than little Gendry who forges swords and is sucked by leaches…
Agreed. We need to know more about him! Sadly we may never know… 🙁
Connor,
I hope we have at least a few more interesting Bran visions.
luki17,
No
No
No
dothrakian raven,
Was just talking about missing Gendry. 🙂 I’ve never thought of him as king but I do think he’s coming back to the story, despite the crazy long absence. First-for Arya. There was an instant connection between them and tons of foreshadowing. He can’t really be put in the same category as Lommy and Hotpie. He’s Robert’s bastard, the last Baratheon in the show, strong and capable, and Arya wanted him to be her family. Second-his skills as a smith. It was mentioned over and over. It saved him in Harrenhal, the BWB invited him to join because two or three times they asked if he could do something-and apparently, yes, he could. He’s a talented guy and maybe one who could-oh I don’t know-put Oathkeeper and Widow’s Wail back together? Make new weapons from Valyrian steel?
I think we’ll see him again, if not by the end of this season, next season. It would be a shame if we didn’t.
RG,
Now that you mentioned it, this is actually pretty high on my wish list. Someone capable of working with Valyrian steel putting Ice back together, whoever that smith might be can use the help of Starks themselves in order to make the sword just like how it was and who better than Gendry? Man he’ll be among my top 5 favorite characters if he ever do this.
Perhaps he has been spelunking. In the books we are told that the land north of the Wall is honeycombed with caves, where the Free Folk hide from the rangers of the Night’s Watch. The Three-Eyed Crow/Raven’s cave is part of a system so vast that not even the Children know where all the passages go. And there’s an old legend about an underground passage beneath the Wall known as Gorne’s Way. Supposedly after the Wildling army surfaced south of the Wall, the King in the North killed their leader Gorne, but the survivors fled back north with Gorne’s brother Gendel. But they didn’t know the routes as well as Gorne had, and ‘Gendel’s children’ had become lost underground forever, according to the story that Ygritte tells Jon in ‘their’ cave. Perhaps Benjen was on a quest to rediscover Gorne’s Way.
The books are full of references to caves and mazes of underground passageways, under Winterfell and Dragonstone and Casterly Rock and tons of other places. And lots of them involve remnants of volcanic activity, suggesting links to Valyrian fire magic and dragons. How much of this stuff will play a part in the TV show is impossible to predict, but it’s as good an explanation for Benjen’s long absence as any that I’ve heard put forward.
dothrakian raven,
I was speaking of Gendry as a hypothetical. He’s certainly not going to be a King in the show universe. Humility is a good trait for a ruler.
I think J and D have gotten where they are by the help of others and their respective names/good fortune. They care about the small folk because that’s what they think good leaders do not because they actually care. That’s why Daenerys lives in a pyramid and Jon tells Edd the Wall is his problem now.
JemFX,
Daeny is one of the primary protagonists. She will keep paralleling Jon in development. The only main character for whom she will be an antagonist is (as always!) herself.
JemFX,
If you read the entire history of westeros, rulers always take. Only the children of the forest and the giants didn’t take from someone else. The first men took, then the andals then the targaryans then Robert Baratheon. Its who have the power or power to resist rules. Dany trying to be good is not getting her anywhere. She needs to start fucking shit up or they will keep clowning her. There is no good or evil, just power.
Looking forward to seeing BenjHand ride to the rescue of Bran and Meera. Also, I might be in denial, but, I believe young Ned Stark (Robert Aramayo) will show up in a vision somewhere. Maybe inside the TOJ.
This season is a juggernaut – what a ride.
JonFookinSnow,
No, I like some more than others. I’ve been hanging around fandom sites for 5 years though and it seems like there are some folks who will find a positive spin on Sansa (whom I like and hope the best for) no matter what she does or says (like lying to Jon, or her less than insightful input about the Karstarks), and people that will spin anything Dany does as negative or stupid (like the guy above who at first presented the killing of the khals as the self interested murder of innocents, when in fact she was being threatened with imminent gang rape and bestiality and the not so innocent khals).
RG,
I have no problem with his return at all. It would be cool to see where that boat took him. And yes he could fit as Arya’s partner when she is back in Westeros or maybe as BWB member. So chances to see him in this season are not slim.
Firannion,
I hope that would happen
I haven’t read the books so I don’t know what that prophecy is
But I do hope that cersei doesn’t “win”
Daughter of Winter,
As much as I like the idea of Ice being put back together, I think that would be a foolish move. Valyrian steel kills White Walkers. Given that, two swords would be better than one.
As much as I’d like to see that, I’m afraid this season we’ll see the end of House Tyrell – we didn’t hear The Rains of Castamere without a good reason in the Cersei / Jaime / Kevan / Olenna meeting…
After her neat little plan of violence being crushed by Margaery & Tommen officially and peacefully embracing the High Sparrow, Cersei will go berserk and plan to castamere House Tyrell. Wild speculation, but I’d bet on that.
ugashep,
I see what you’re saying, but I’m not anywhere close to a Sansa fan, and I don’t have a big problem with her lying to Jon about the source of her info. regarding the Blackfish. Yes, I would have rather her just told the truth, but I can see a couple of viable reasons why she didn’t, and I certainly don’t think it’s because she has some nefarious master-plan, as some have suggested.
RG
Agree about Gendry’s importance to Arya’s story and him being the one to re-forge Ice. When would that happen, though? How does Widow’s Wail get out of Lannister hands? Maybe Jaime takes it with him to the Riverlands. Maybe the reforging can only happen at the end.
Green Chili,
How exactly will she do that with a Tyrell army in Kings Landing? Olenna is much more smarter than her and won’t go down fighting.
Also i can easily see Tommen betraying his mother.
without fighting
Morrigen,
Agreed… Though I’m just not sure that there were many of them left in the first place.. as it was the same small group with Leaf that created the NK 8000 years ago.
Yes.. an ICE SPIDER would be very cool.. 😉 I’m def hoping to see one this season..
Tycho Nestoris,
Jom and Daeny care about the general masses because their own experiences with the Dothraki and Wildlings. It would be absolutely awful storytelling to have Jon and Daeny act so strongly on these principles out of reluctant obligation without making it clear to the audiences that they are doing so. We need to see their individual arcs to glean the story, after all.
Ice Spider,
Do you like ice spiders, Ice Spider? Hahaha
Don’t worry. I can’t see her winning.. esp since the prophesy say’s she will be taken out (politically) by a younger and more beautiful Queen. Hence her hatred for Margaery. She thinks she is the one to replace her.
Ice Spider,
Sansa
I agree on this! Gutted if the QOT dies though 🙁
Ice Spider,
I wonder who it will be
A few q’s that have surfaced this week for me. I watched the links another member posted for the backstories (I have only read up to book three) and LOVED the information. It was kinda repetitive but that was ok for me because it helped me remember it all. So who ever posted it.. thanks. Sorry I didn’t write your avi name down to give credit due.
So.. first q’s.
2. If the CotF original “greenseer was one of them then how did a human become a greenseer? Does any of the book readers know?
Well that my dear is the million dollar q’s.. lol. I don’t have the foggiest but I have my favorites that I would like to see. I fear that it won’t be anyone I want since GRRM says this is going to end in a bittersweet fashion. But realistically I would for it to be Gendry and Arya. That would unite Baratheon houses and Stark houses as it was meant to be originally and what started this whole bloody mess. Well for recent Westeros history that is. There has been a mess from the beginning of time.
Looking forward to Benjen (hopefully it’s him), the Tarly’s and Dany/Drogon (pretty sure he returns this episode).
I do hope that King’s Landing is going to be exciting. If Margaery/Tommen just walk out and nothing else happens, than I am somewhat disappointed.
And who will be the old foe that shows up? Walder Frey perhaps? Looking forward to that!
Actually Im like a spider hater- I really am petrified of them jumping on me.. but when I started on this site .. it seemed like all the cool names were taken so I took Ice Spider bc it wasn’t used.. I had Ice Dragon on the site that is not mentioned here, but I found it wasn’t as quality as this one and I frankly do not have time to go onto 100 sites. I think someone is using Ice Dragon on here or I saw it recently so no going back now.
Are you saying Sansa is going to be sitting on the Iron Throne?
I always wondered how they are going to prove that Jon is a Targaryen; I mean, Bran can know through his visions, but that doesn’t sound very convincing. HR is the only alive person who could know for sure, but then again knowing it’s not prove enough…any thoughts?
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
You may not have a big problem with it but you aren’t spinning it as a positive or as evidence of her evolution into a highly competent player of the game either and so there’s a distinct difference between the view you articulated and those who see practically everything Sansa does as a step toward her becoming the wisest and shrewdest player in the game. There are folks I have run into in the fandom who will take any criticism of Sansa’s actions as hate and brush aside any evidence or suggestion that does not fit with their predetermined hopes for Sansa as a character. Again, Sansa I believe is one of the most sympathetic characters in the story, she has suffered terribly, I really hope her story to has a happy ending, she deserves it, but while I didn’t see her actions in this past episode as “bad” per set or not understandable. Lying to Jon was a miscalculation and a misread of his character, the Karstark suggestion was not well thought through and Davos shot it down as nicely as he could, and finally mentioning Jon’s bastardy in the same sentence with Ramsey’s while I don’t think it was malicious by any means, was impolitic at best, a “gaffe” so to speak. Not exactly real evidence that Sansa is now the playa of playas which is the vibe you get from some if the regular recappers on the internet and commenters here and elsewhere.
Dee,
I suspect that she will defeat the Faith Militant… but lose Tommen in the process.
So, while she may technically have won, she won’t see it that way…
Ice Spider,
That would be great
But gendry is a bastard?
BigMac,
She will lose tommen for sure
I wonder how her reaction will be?
It would have been her fault, to begin with
Wouldn’t it be cool if Arya escaped the FM, and ran into Gendry in Bravos, where he has been learning to work with Valyrian steel?
Firannion,
My time on this site has been touch and go, so I may have missed any evidence that leans towards Benjen returning. Was there anything on here over the break that would let us hope for his return?
If Walder Frey is indeed appearing, then isn’t this episode all but certain to include the debut of this character as well?:
http://watchersonthewall.com/game-of-thrones-casting-another-frey-for-season-6/
Yes he is a bastard but bastards can be made legit.. and at least one has been made legit on the show so it’s not too far fetched. I can see him being knighted and given his proper family name. I mean after all he is STILL King Roberts true son.. even if they consider him a bastard. The blood is true …
Ice Spider,
There are some book readers who theorize somewhere in the past the CoTF interbred with the First Men, passing along the gifts of Green seeing and Warging. The Crannogmen, of whom Jojen and Meera derive, are noted to be short in stature. Crannogmen have the gift of Greenseeing.
Do you think Tommen is going to die this season? Oh boy…
Ok thanks.. and was the 3ER totally human? Do we know anything on this? I mean he’s been in that dang tree for a very long time.
I’ve run into those folks, as well. They seem to take any criticism of Sansa as what you said, plus as some sort of personal affront. I’ve noticed the same thing with some Dany fans (which either you, or someone else, also pointed out).
The good news is, most of the folks around here, not all, but most, are able to see things from a variety of angles, or at the very least realize there’s more than one valid way of looking at things, given these are opinions and speculation…not to mention, interpretation is subjective. Sure, they have what they think may happen, but few insist their ideas are “law,” and discount those who do not agree.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
You are right, this is a very good site. I wish I could engage with you all more often.
Yes, indeed! 😉 Recently the threads here are so bogged down in Sansa-love and Daenerys-hate, that I have to make real effort to skip over those posts to find others with good insight, speculation and spoilers (I LOVE spoilers/hints). I would give anything to have an “IGNORE” button here. 🙂
Ice Spider,
You are very welcome. Yes, he is indeed human in the books. However, B&W have made some changes with his story in the show, so that remains to be seen.
Wimsey,
I am an awful syoryteller. That’s not quite what I said though. Their care is skin deep. They are both closed systems. Defensive and then striking. The Targ who crowd surfed and the boy who held a wall from friends for friends are dead. I don’t see it as reluctant obedience as much as a “stannis-ian” sense of duty. That’s the space between “listening to a parent” and “feeling wanted enough to act.” So, I am agruing semantics (ad infintum).
Dee,
Power resides where men believe it resides.
Mr. Morden,
Umm, not sure that I’m the best-informed source to be asking, but… It looks to me like most fans are presuming that the character seen in the trailer rescuing Meera from a (presumed) wight with a flaming bola thingie must be either Benjen, Coldhands or some combination of the two, just by process of elimination. There aren’t a lot of obvious potential candidates left for a human rescuer north of the Wall. Someone suggested that Howland Reed might’ve come looking for his children, but that seems like more of a long shot.
To my knowledge, there have been no spoilers from the production season indicating that Joseph Mawle has been seen on-set or hanging around Belfast. There have, however, been repeated callbacks to Benjen on the show recently, beginning with him being used as a ruse to get Jon out of his office at the end of Season 5, and including a couple of Bran’s Winterfell flashbacks in which boy-Benjen is addressed by name to make sure that the audience is reminded of who he is. It’s sort of circumstantial evidence, but added together, it all starts to feel like a setup for adult-Benjen’s reintroduction.
In other words, no guarantees, but many clues pointing in the same general direction.
Interesting.. who was his Father? Since he was a bastard? And I don’t mind being spoiled on book info.. at this point Im just in for the ride.
Ice Spider,
he was one of the “great bastards” of Aegeon IV..
Ice Spider,
Aegon IV or Aegon the Unworthy, his mother was from House Blackwood and Brynden like his mother worshipped the Old Gods.
Ice Spider,
King Aegon IV, who was (I cant remember how many generations separate them in the lineage, as there were some uncles/brothers who inherited the throne) King about four or five ahead of Mad King Aerys.
Almost forgot, he was also took the Black, and was Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch for a time. Mysteriously disappears beyond the wall which is not explained, and many speculate he is warging all the Ravens, like the ones on the Weirwood tree when Sam killed the WW.
Aegon IV Targaryen. He’s another with Targaryen blood.
*ninja’d – I should have refreshed before posting
Danny,
Ah, you beat my slow typing!
zod,
Your speculation isn’t that wild, imo. Yet again, they didn’t need to have Benjen in the scene. Rickard had gone, Ned had gone, yet little Benjen was there closely watching Hodor’s breakdown. If Bran is still trapped in the past then communicating to him doesn’t seem to be out of the question. I also thought it was interesting that we got this promo shot. http://watchersonthewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Hodor-Nan-768×432.jpg It indicates that we might see part of that final scene again in the next episode but from a different angle.
I am not familiar with the books, but was Blackwood a prominent Northern house? What happened to them? Somewhere on the internet, I read that one of the Blackwood ladies married the then Targ king, so all Targs after that were really half Blackwood. Is this true?
Kay,
The Blackwoods are from the Riverlands, where the Tullys rule. Thus, his Bastard name, Brynden Rivers. There is much more intermarriage into the Targaryen line than what the show indicates.
selena,
Ok…thank you!!
Ok.. thanks.. I guess I got a ton of responses.. lol so now I have to do a back story on that so I can catch up. This is so complicated. GRRM is a genius.
Well if he was the bastard of a king that is so far back then how is he human? I mean that would be at least 400 years ago? Am I missing something? Or should I just go and read the back story so that all you kind folk don’t have to catch me up to speed. Lol.. I will read back story .. thanks for everyone answering the q’s. Appreciated.
Mag,
Nah. Bran needs someone to interact with. And besides, they’ll totally end up marrying for the sweet side of the bittersweet GRRM promised
Ice Spider,
Its theorized the CotF are somehow magically extending his life, but he has been in the tree for less than 400 years. He may be between 150-250 years old, no more.
Does anyone know how long Aemon was at the wall? that would help.
Morrigen,
BTW.. I was trying to find the link for the backstories again and was scrolling posts on a earlier thread… wow that one comment you made re:Bran and who he might be …. I was like “oh so Tin Foil” but wouldn’t that be the SHIZIT… lol.. I don’t how much stock I put into the wild theories that are out there but that one was pretty cool.
Apollo,
I think Bran is definitely Bran the Builder, and that he’s probably responsible for forming the Night’s Watch as well. I think the scene of Bran building the Wall or rather warging people to ensure it happens will be shown just before the Wall falls down (season 7 finale material) for the symbolism. And to show that the Great War is beyond even his abilities, and only the Prince that was Promised can stop the White Walkers (Jon/Dany). Then season 8 will show the White Walker invasion and the climactic battle of dragons vs WWs.
Ice Spider,
in the book he is a 100 years old, give or take a few years..think of Maester Aemon..he wasnt much older then him (they both came to the wall together)
It’s currently 300 AC on the show, and at the end of book 5.
Aegon IV reigned from 172 AC to 184 AC. Brynden was born in 175 AC… So, he is/was 125 years old.
Maester Aemon was born 198 AC so he was 102 when he died.
Ice Spider,
Thanks. I like my tinfoil hat. Its GREAT! Glad you liked the theory!
Dany with another one of her “bad ass” lines that she sounds so terrible saying. Love her boobs, but her acting has turned her into a corny-ass old Batman Villian.
selena,
He was younger than Aemon? Wow, I forgot that.
I don’t have the timelines handy, but in the Dunk & Egg stories, Bloodraven appears to be not more than 30 or 40 years older than Egg, who is Aemon’s brother. So his age at the end is unlikely to exceed 150. But he was a notorious mage, and probably tinkered with life-extending rituals even before the CotF had him in their custody.
Morrigen,
Ok… well Im going to go and watch these back stories/Lore again.. I only got through the first two last night.. I never knew there was so much effing stuff out there on this series. I mean I knew there was a lot… but good gravy… it’s like CRAZY amounts of info to read. Someone could really get so tied up into this that it takes over their lives. I wonder if there is a term for a person who has engrossed themselves in that manner? And did you see the D&D apology that they made re: Hodor’s death? Funny but they needed to make an apology for the leaked episode.. that would have been even better..
Hmmmm do you think he did the whole time loop thing before? Seems like he was trying to teach Bran from experience perhaps?
Morrigen,
no he was older the Maester Aemon, but not by huge amount
wiki says Bloodraven born 175 and Aemon born 198
Aemon was 102 then blood raven is 125
WillieBeans,
Walder Frey, I believe.
selena,
Okie..thanks!!
Morrigen,
Well I like complete twists and not expecting something and it comes out from left field. I just am trying to absorb as much as I can since Im fairly new to these sites (not quite a year into them) and still haven’t finished all the books. For me its just really fascinating since Im a history nut.. even if it’s fake history. lol It’s all about the details in history.. you leave out one minor part and it screws up the rest of the story… 😉
Ice Spider,
Oh, my! Well, that is GRRM’s “Worldbuilding”, as it is called. Sooo many details, and he really weaves them all in. Yes, you can get caught up, and some people do let it take over their lives. Some people call them Book purists, and that was who the apology was for. Thanks for the chuckle!
selena,
Ok, thanks.
ugashep,
Irrational Dany haters? I don’t hate Dany. I thought she was very interesting with the dragons…BUT I just don’t see her as a saviour of GOT world. She tries to tread a line between compassion and butchery when things go wrong. She has no idea how to rule, except by force. She is a woman in a misogynistic world fighting for recognition. And she cannot be ‘The Prince who was Promised as some suggest – wrong gender. It’s Prince not Princess. Piss poor prophecy that can’t even get the sex right!
Sansa is of the Stark line but she’s not a Stark any more, she’s Lady Bolton. I do hope she gets her revenge though, especially on the skin crawler Littlefinger. If there has to be a female heroine then let it be Meera or Arya.
I think we’ll see Jon Snow as a child … remember there was another kid who was casted for this season. The kid looks like Isaac. Unless he is an older Benjen in Bran’s vision. I believe Bran will have several short visions in Winterfell before waking up …
I actually kinda like this idea.
It’d go a LONG way to explaining A LOT.
Kay,
I am very sorry that people feel annoyed by Sansa lovers, because I can assure you that “we” have a genuinely deep connection to her and most of “us” do not care about game playing or anything else than her being safe.
I am a Daeny and a Sansa lover and I do not think that I am irrational. I just experienced similar circumstances in my life and thusly I relate to both of them more than to any other character. That’s the power of ASoIaF. Never forget that!
If you must know, I felt powerless for the better part of my life and I was hiding my identity… There are people who feel very deeply for Sansa, because very often these people experienced what it means to be forlorn, surrounded by “ennemies”. It sadly is a crucial point in their lives.
So, I feel comfortable to say, that most Sansa lovers do not care about “being a fucking badass”, or QitN, they are very happy with just staying alive and safe. And surely, Sansa does not care about ruling the North! She just wants a home for her family!
In fact, I am very happy that most people are not Sansa lovers, because that makes you, more often than not, much happier people 😀
I’m the wrong person to ask, as I am very very resistant to all the time-loop theorizing. The idea of ‘our’ Bran being all the past Brans, right back to Bran the Builder, just makes me want to grind my teeth like Stannis! I like science fiction well enough in its place, but suddenly turning a fantasy saga into a sci-fi time-travel story just as we’re getting into the third act doesn’t sit well with me. The ‘Bran instigated everything by going back in time’ just feels way too contrived and ‘handy’ an explanation for my tastes, and I don’t much care for the notion of Bloodraven doing stuff like that either – especially since he warned Bran sternly against trying to make contact with the people in his visions.
Ice Spider,
I think he was 127. He was born in 175 AC. Joffrey was king in 300 AC. He was half-great uncle to Maester Aemon. He was the bastard son of Aegon IV the Unworthy. Aegon V (Egg) was Aegon IV’s great-grandson. Aerys the Mad King was Egg’s grandson. It was reputed that BR practiced the dark arts with his half-sister Shiera. He was exiled to the wall at the beginning of Egg’s reign. Then as noted above he was lost while ranging north of the Wall. I believe the connection to the tree also likely extended his life span.
selena,
He was 127. He was Aemon’s half-great-uncle.
selena,
Yes. Exactly
Yes.
This post made me think of a few thoughts that have been in the back of my mind all week since seeing the last episode. I keep thinking of the two Stark family phrases:
“Winter is Coming” and “There must always be a Stark in Winterfell”.
The last episode made me think of all the powers and details suggesting that Bran is the Night’s King. But what if he’s not?
What if he’s actually the Anti-Night’s King??
Referencing your thoughts above, as they are fleeing from an extreme corpse-warging power and corpse army, what if the only way to combat them is with a Stark of equal power? And for some reason, Bran needs to be in Winterfell to accomplish this? Otherwise, the Night’s King need only cross the wall to gain an unlimited supply of unburnt corpses in Westerosi graves. I haven’t worked this all out in my mind, but perhaps there is something magical there (such as the Weirwood tree or other unknown artifact) that would permit him to raise an equal or more powerful army of his own? Again, just throwing this out there.
Ok, I promise to take off my tinfoil hat for the rest of the evening.
Honestly I find that both characters have a lot of irrational haters. I think both Sansa and Dany get a lot of sh*t for doing things people won’t even blink twice about if one of their favorite characters had done it. Their actions usually taken out of context, exaggerated etc. as to make them appear sinister or manipulative, when its usually not the case (not that their characters are incapable of those things). I’m not sure why Sansa vs. Dany is even a thing when I feel like a large subset of the fans love to simplify the motivations of both these characters for whatever reason.
Dany is harshly criticized for being just a “conquerer” and not caring about anyone or anything but herself, when that’s just false. People even try to act like her burning the Khals was wrong and unnecessary as if they didn’t hold her prisoner and threatened to rape her to death. Another aspect of Dany’s character that I feel is harshly criticized is her ability to rule. She’s not a perfect leader, she’s had a lot of screw ups, but show me a character in Westeros or anywhere in the GOT universe that hasn’t? Hell Stannis put all his faith in Melisandre, a religious zealot and burned his own damn daughter and was 0 for 2. I still don’t think he got the kind of criticism Dany gets.
Sansa is the same, some people can’t let go of the resentment they had towards her when the show started and she was a bratty 13 yr old girl who had very naive ideas about marrying a prince and being queen. I never truly understood the hate for Sansa even in the early seasons. Sure maybe she was annoying in the way that bratty teenage girls can be but beyond that? I didn’t get it and I still don’t. Now that she’s no longer that naive little girl people give her crap for not being perfect and daring to assert herself in matters that very much concern her.
Truly, I see no difference in the level of irrational hate both Sansa and Dany receive tbh.
125.
It’s still 300 AC at this point in the published books. All of A Dance With Dragons takes place in 300 AC, which is to say the show would be at 300 AC or just flipping to 301.
Wylie,
If you go back to 2011 to 2013 three female characters are most hated .,they are sansa ,cat and dany…the sansa and cat hate seems to have Dropped significantly..dany hate on the other hand
The thing that mostly surprises ( or annoys ) me is those who understand sansa must have understood dany as well ..since sansa is going through the same development which dany as gone through back in season 1.
I agree with what you are saying about how you can relate to the characters that’s exactly why I like these characters as well..
And I wonder how many people those who hate dany knew that’s the same thing dany wants ..
That said there is irrational hate present ..
You can see those in past week what happened with sansa ..and you can see what happens with dany every week .
Very often some hateful comments are made by those who did not even read the chapters but pretending to be book reader and blame .
My main problem is complete negligence towards dany while same time like sansa and cat ..I can understand that hate from stannis or Jon fans because they feel threatened..
there was this podcast close the door which will talk about irrational hate female characters like cat and sansa get but they are nothing but irrational haters of dany .
I have often said there exists double standard with dany and starks ..and you can find that with most of the comments .
LonRice,
Yes I agree with you completely .
like above I will include the cat as well .
But one thing that has increased is the number of fans and defenders for sansa
Ice Spider,
Yes he is and this ain’t over,I’ve read thousand’s .Toilken was beautiful ,but i thank Grrm is just so complex I say he’s the king now and set a very high bar for any to follow.
Tycho Nestoris,
I don’t understand this type of statements .
I would again like to remind you of the fact that we have POV of both Jon and dany .,a window into their minds and what they are thinking ..
Unless if you are stating they are faking their thoughts about how much they care .
Take Jon he grew up as a bastard outside of the family lived among the commoners as well with his half siblings …then he goes to wall where he gets to experience with his brothers and his life with wildlings and his ability to view into the bigger threat is why they are in a leading position.
Take dany you won’t find anyone who has lived among commons than dany because she lived among them basically as a beggar ran from cities to cities ..know what it is to be hungry and powerless and sold. And her experience with dothraki and slavers bay have only increased her care for those who are powerless .
Yes Jon did left the wall but the main thing you forget is that he did indeed do all he needed for the wall and watch but he got paid for with murdered by his own brothers ..
Yes dany did live in a pyramid but you left out a point where she throws out this magnificent and glorious throne out and put an simple ebony bench as a throne and still thinking about how to create a peace and establish a new system that can work with both slaves and masters ..and help feed those who are affected by pale mare..after all the compromise what she got paid is slavery outside of her wall in front of her eyesight and an attempt on her life .
Beer Island,
I agree with part of your statements ..power is necessary
Take Aegon the fifth or egg he had all the ideas to make westeros a better place for commoners but the lords opposed him in every decision because he didn’t have that power ..
So even if you are trying to good things you can’t keep your hands clean .
I have a few predictions…
-Arya will kill Lady Crane, only to find out the hit came through Cersei because the troupe is profiting from the Lannister’s misfortune. I think that may cause Arya to break from the Faceless Men.
-The old foe is Walder Frey
-D&D might merge Benjen and Coldhands just to mess with us.
-There will be another scene just to remind us what a prick Ramsey is.
Fancy word for a sellsword,
So who will get the pleasure of being ramsays toy?
Tycho Nestoris,
I don’t know how this dany doesn’t have humility comes as well ..
Iam not going to argue about Jon because most believe he is and only criticize dany .
Dany is one of the few characters who constantly questions her actions and admits her faults and where she has failed and how she must overcome those ..
She never failed to admit her mistakes and failures and she never stopped self evaluating.
dragonbringer,
I didn’t say faking. I believe Jon and Daenerys are truly genuine. I just think their “care” for small folk comes from their desire help them rather than be them. No one is confusing Daeny for arya or gendry. I chuckled when you mentioned the bench. I mean she’s living in someone else’s pyramid, who got the pyramid through slave trade. She should tear it all down. Hey, maybe she will.
I hope I don’t give the impression I dislike them. I just think their character is fair game.
Ser JJ Watt,
Grow up
Tycho Nestoris,
I hope she returns to form after finally arriving in Westeros. Her story in Essos has become so stagnant.
Mag,
Are you referring to Michael Nevin? http://watchersonthewall.com/another-young-actor-is-cast-for-game-of-thrones-season-6/
We already saw him, in episode 3. He’s playing one of Varys/Qyburn’s little birds. http://daddyissuesla.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/14.gif
Tycho Nestoris,
No you didn’t give the impression that you didn’t like them .
Well dany definitely lived among those people and had been one of them in her early days in other words when she was at the age of arya ..you can see in her very first chapter how much she listens to what people are saying in the streets and how much she distrust illyrio’s words ..
I know the bench part is small thing but its still a start and shows that she doesn’t care for those fancy throne and power but want things to be simple ..
She adopted to dothraki unlike viserys who thought he was above them ..
She is going to bring the whole place down so yeah the pyramid will go down as well .
Dee,
Thank you.
Tycho Nestoris,
What I was trying to say is that danh trying to help those people because she knew how it is to be like them and she understands.
In her young age she wanted to become a sailor for which viserys beat her up ..eventhough she lived in that pyramid she was never happy unlike when she was in the house with red door or when she was in the dotheaki sea …
I think most of the problem with dany is all her hardships and struggle to grow up comes in before AGOt starts ..
But if you look at dany you can find the pattern with all the stark kids be it Robb, Jon ,sansa ,arya and bran..
Like I used in another example Egg was one of those who was practically lived with common people is often compared with dany and arya .
but when he became king he did live in a castle and I think it will be the same for arya and gendry or who ever else for that matter.
msd,
Ooops … I though he had something more important to do.
Tycho Nestoris,
🙂
Mag,
Ha, yes, so did we all when they said “substantial role” but I guess if you’re a child actor getting to speak a line in GoT is big … and the little birds are going to see action again soon.
HelloThere,
Yes! But I don’t think that will be this episode.
Ginevra,
And since you are here and the topic seems to be irrational hate and all ..
I will make a point to you as well ..I seem to remember you making a statement that GRRM wanted to show how terrible dany is and how good Jon is in the ruling when he wrote ADWD even though its your opinion when you think Jon is best and dany is terrible you dont have anything to show that’s what GRRM wanted .at that time I was not present in the forum but I think wimsey did answer to your claim but you didn’t agree with him and hoped he must be wrong ..
But I can yell you that GRRm did wanted to compare two perons in their ruling and no its not Jon and dany but it was cersei and dany.
There is a reason why GRRM wanted WOS to be in ADWD ..he wanted to show how both rule their kingdoms show how much different they are …and how they come out of their respective walks of shame( dany in dothraki sea) ..
You can find that interview I believe it’s always brought upon in westeros.org and I believe there are many threads there on this subject if you think iam lying .
Ok So how about this – Tommen dies this episode. KL has been a veery slow build up so I’m hoping for something huge. It’s happened before where a “skip” week then led to big things in follow up. For example S1E5 had no Dany but S1E6 had Viserys death.
Possibilities:
1. Sand snakes sneak attack (it’s really been too long since they declared war – I feel like they have to do something this epi)
2. Cersei kills him accidentally as part of her plan to go all Rains if Castermere on the Tyrells/Sparrows goes awry (wild fire?).
3. Sparrows attaint him as an abomination and establish a theocracy
In all cases Jaime completely failed yet again to save a child. Case 2 is most interesting by far. But 1 maybe more likely…
Thanks! Also, I went to the ASoIaF Wiki and found out that Daenerys’ great-grandma was Betha Blackwood. Her grandparents and parents being full siblings, she’s, in fact, half Blackwood!!! So not all that Pure Targaryen! Ha! 🙂 Also, the Baratheons descended from Betha Blackwood too!
Kay,
Yes she has first men blood as well ….every bit of ice and fire .
Which is something overlooked or completely ignored ever since TWOIAF released ..
Someone named ‘Brandan stark’ build the wall and defeated white walkers thousands of years ago….. I think this could be something in Bran’s to do list in vision before he comes back…….
‘High Sparrow eyes another target’ briefing of next episode means somehow he already hits his target in this episode…..
Arya needs to kill ‘No one(jeqan) ‘ to actually be faceless girl…..
I’m pretty sure someone linked this before, but here is a (rather long) Telekollektiv interview with Tom Wlaschiha from May 18. I just like hearing him speak in his native German (there are subtitles, however) and seeing what crazy pattern his shirt is on any given day. ?
Sorry, I didn’t say I feel annoyed by Sansa lovers. I just wish that sometimes I didn’t have to wade through a ton of love-Sansa posts that don’t actually discuss the show or speculate about the future. But please don’t mind me. Love Sansa away! Have fun! 🙂
Queenofthrones,
Tommen will be seen to have converted to the Faith in the next episode, imo. Which will devastate his parents. If Tommen dies, it will be closer to the end of the season.
She has ALL kinds of blood!! And so has Jon (and Tyrion too, IMO! 😉 ) I just looked deeper into the WIki. So, Daenerys’ great-grandma was Betha Blackwood. Her great-grandpa, Aegon’s mother, was Dyanna Dayne and his grandmother was Mariah Martell! The Targ genes must be sooooo diluted in Daenerys and … well, others. How did the “dragon gene” or whatever, survive? Even Tyrion seemed to have got along with Rhaegal and Viserion!
Is theorizing that Dany may not be the wisest ruler irrational hate? I’m very willing to debate ideas as long as you don’t call me names or assign me emotions I’m not feeling for my opinions and theories. Wimsey is always exceedingly polite even when we fundamentally disagree.
I don’t hate Dany, and I definitely don’t think she’s a terrible person. I think she’s an excellent conqueror and a good person but that GRRM is using her story to prove that good people don’t necessarily make good rulers, as he says here:
I’ll freely admit that my proof – Jon’s actions as LC and Dany’s actions as Queen in Meereen – is debatable, although I believe George will clarify in the final two books. I see Jon’s decisions, though tough, as based on logic while Dany’s decisions appear to be based on emotion. Being a logic-based person, myself, I tend to better appreciate logical, rational rulers, and so that is why I might be biased toward Jon, who still has Dany’s compassion and goodness but takes a logical approach toward meeting his end goals.
I do agree that George wanted to show us many examples of poor leadership by rulers who were fundamentally bad people, like Joffrey or Cersei, but I think he wanted to show us two good people where one was not actually a good ruler and the other was. I think we can all agree that evil people make evil rulers. #hitler
dragonbringer,
Well that is precisely what it is. Not because u have good intentions mean people in westeros are going to say yippee yeah. They are profiting from evil like slavery etc. They’re not letting go off the money and power willingly. They have to know you have the power, but then down go overboard with it like Maegar the cruel Or even Joffrey. Dany needs to put the fear into people with the dragons. Burn the masters shit down. Like no compromise. I have dragons and I’ll exterminate ur line.
Kay,
Yes they both are …tyrion iam not sure. .the dragons like they said in the episode the dragons show affinty to most who they think friendly and not harmless .
Its been said that tyrion may have targ blood from plumms ..
Elio who co wrote TWoIaF said having targ blood is not alone but you need to have the right drop of blood as well as that drop must be activated …
Hence why dany has succeeded in birthing dragons while targs failed in the past .
Why would Jon fans feel threatened by Dany? For what?
Since Sansa and Dany are being compared, my take is this:
I don’t hate Dany and I definitely don’t think she is a selfish or terrible ruler. I like her well enough. She has just been put in a no-win situation in Meereen. However, I have never been able to truly root for her, as a lot of what she has achieved / she has gotten out of problems just because she happens to be magic and she has dragons, nuclear weapons nobody else has. Another problem for me is she has been stuck in a continent and a story I just can’t care about. I feel none of her antagonists have been anything other than one dimensional, which takes away from enjoying her storyline. I have felt sorry for her multiple times though.
Sansa on the other hand, we have actually seen her go through these hardships, which she has done without losing any of her humanity, which in Dany’s case we only hear as back story. Seeing will always be more powerful than hearing, I guess. Besides, she has to achieve success using whatever human resources she has, with no aid of magic or any supernatural gift. And it helps that she is involved in the most interesting aspect of the story, earlier it was KL and now, the North.
I don’t mean to be anti-Dany, just saying why I love Sansa more than Dany.
Another big factor is a lot of people have this immense love for all Starks, including me. We just can’t help it!
Firannion,
I agree. I don’t want this story to turn into science fiction. If it turns out Bran has influenced all the big events that have happened in Westeros for the past thousands of years, I am going to throw all my books away in frustration.
ghost of winterfell,
You have to go back in time in those years I mentioned …
The insecurities of stannis and Jon fans exists even still today that she will be stealing their spot light ..
There was a time when there existed Stan stans called stannis army and jon fans who started campaiging how everyone should hate dany by twisting everything and overblowing every tiny details ..there was this poster named Apple martini who I believe many know who is still respect but she openly said she will be only happy when there are no one who likes dany and felt glee in converting those who like her .
Do you think I haven’t heard why people are not interested in dany ..I can understand that ..to me jon arya and dany story is isolated and I like to read their chapters alone throughout the five books..I mostly blame GRRm for his gardening style writing for this ..he simply denies to give any other insights on essos but only give dany’s …but at the same time keep expanding westeros ..if he had decided to scrap the five year plan and take gardening then he should have developed those who are in her arc ..
And what do you expect dany is much more bigger character so of course she will be having a bigger role ..while she was sold into a marriage and had a misconception and losing a husband and brother and hatching dragons to crossing a red waste and freeing slaves and ruling cities ..
Sansa story has been about her being a prisoner for three books and how she survives and be strong and learns from them ..
You can’t tell one shows strength while other does not .
If you are going to complain about plot gifts and plot armor all the six main characters have it not just dany ..
Many believe dany’s best work is in AGOT and Season 1 where there was not any dragons but only her strength and adopting to situations helped her and a show of character .
And I believe telling she is only interesting is because of her dragons or she has fans because Emilia is hot is downright insulting ( not saying you do )
Its funny when you say she is a stark Yet why do you think sansa is most hated of the stark children ..why does there exist a rift between arya and sansa fans ..and the same KL you speak is what most people complained about her that she is not showing any development and only there to provide a POV in KL .and those who complain that even after five books and six season she has not learnt or grown ..
See I like sansa but like what you said about dany there are those who don’t like sansa and give reasons like the above. ..its only irrational trolls and haters I speak of
Another example of Jon fans is you can see how much Jon fans comes to hate sansa just because she lied about LF ..
The reason cat is most hated because she didn’t love a bastard child of her husband..
There is not even unity in the the stark family ..
Throne Thoughts …
– Bran and the Night King are linked, till death do they part, moving forward, but what does that mean? If Bran goes south of the Wall, will the ancient spells be broken and allow the WWs to move through, too? It’s likely that Benjen Coldhands will confirm it very soon, and if this is indeed the case, then at some point the crossing is happening. It’s inevitable. Winter IS coming. Likely, the Wall will lose its purpose in the process, and the long standing enmity between Free Folk and Crows will seem irrelevant in the wake. Winter will spread through Westeros like a frigid tidal wave, and finally the petty disputes between the houses will be exposed for what they are.
Speaking of links to Bran, we’ve all tinkered by now with the thought that Hodor (Wylis) is a zombie. I know…that’s not fair. I hear, ya, but since Bran has already established a pathway into Wylis, it’s fair to speculate that he can continue the warging. That’ll level the playing field a bit, especially, if he can avoid being detetected in the process.
-Daenerys now has a full Khalasar at her command, and that usually includes an accompaniment of Bloodriders. Tension will certainly build if she refuses this tradition – Blood of My Blood – but she already has her circle (Tyrion, Grey Worm, Missandei, Daario, Varys, Jorah, Kinvara?). While an addition or two may be forthcoming, this will be a disjointed union at best; former slaves and slavers (Dothraki) tend not to make the fastest of friends.
She does have one heavy stick to swing if they don’t fall in line. “Because I said so” just may work when you have 3 dragons (and a Red priestess) backing you. You can’t force loyalty, though, as she’s learning, and it will be an arduous task getting the Dothraki horde across the Narrow Sea. Logic says many of them will not make it.
– I really like Arya, and while it hasn’t been much “fun” to watch her story progress, I’m looking forward to what paths lie ahead. She’s not long for the company of the Faceless Men, and that’s definitely a good thing. While she may not be a ninja with a bow staff like the Waif, she doesn’t need to be. She is something far better, Arya Stark, and has become considerably more formidable than when she first arrived in Braavos, and she was already a stone cold killer.
She won’t assassinate Lady Crane, though, and as a result she’ll be forced to flee. We don’t know to where, but we do know Needle will be scooped up on the way. Then, the fun for Arya can begin. She may find (or be found) by Lady Stoneheart, and together they can share the Stark brand of Needle-work with Cersei. Wouldn’t it be fitting for her to be reunited with Nymeria, and bring her wolfpack along to Winterfell to rain down some fanged justice on Ramsay and his dogs.
Beer Island,
I think there should be a mix between being afraid and respected ..say some one like aegon the conqueror or tywin whom the lords were respected and afraid of ..
I think the lords especially must be made known where the power exists
But when it comes to common folks I think one should be charismatic and caring and must be loved and they should follow not with fear but through love and care .
That’s why i see dany as blend of aegon and maegor and egg..
ghost of winterfell,
And regarding we just can’t help it.
Don’t think iam a stark hater or Jon hater for that matter ..
When I started my account in westeros.org my account name was Jon rhaegar stark .i loved both jon and dany as same but I speak only about dany nowadays because unlike jon she is the most hated and mostly need to be defended.
Last week has been so full of how there is not enough time spent with Jon and sansa and north .
I don’t know whether I should laughbor cry at those statements if people are complaining about not spending time in the arc that usually has most of the screentime in an episode then wat about those who only get 3 mins …
Given that each episode has had multiple references to its title, there will probably be more than one kinfolk reunion /reveal.
Sam says high to the family, dad is not impressed, as seen in the preview.
The Tower of Joy scene finally reveals Ned’s secret, as seen nowhere because it’s the big reveal of the episode.
dragonbringer,
Her treatment before aGoT is relevant. I overlooked that. The bench is a start. A wardrobe change (I’m partial to the Dothraki kit above) is a start.
Jon’s sacrifice joining the NW makes him leaving that much more frustrating. He knows and he’s still leaving. Edd knows Jon knows. It’s physically sickening to write but Edd is more brother to Jon than Rickon. Jon has to know he left his brothers for dead. He read the letter. He knows how CB is built.
It’s unfair because waiting out Ramsay gets Rickon killed or worse. But maybe you think of something better than marching on WF. Maybe he gets some Stannis deus ex-machina again?Although I thought Stannis just did what a true king should. As did Jon when he treated with Mance.
tl;dr “endgame” means taking Edd? Alone? Cold? By Ramsay? At least let Edd meet NK
I’ve never posted before, but I’d like to share some of my most pressing questions and thoughts about GOT currently.
Questions:
1.Given that a community of 8000+ year old Children of the Forest (who survived previous White Walker/Andal invasions), Hodor, Jojen, and Summer, all sacrificed themselves to save Bran, what makes Bran so special?
2.Why did the Night King go after 3 Eyed Raven? Why not after Leaf – does he not hold a grudge?
3.Why do the COTF need a human greenseer?
4.Why are the COTF seemingly female and the White Walkers seemingly male?
5.What is the significance of the struggle between slavers and the enslaved in this story’s universe (Dany and Slavers Bay, Braavos and Valeria, COTF/humans and White Walkers)?
6.What’s with the weirwood tree at the House of Black and White?
Current predictions and thoughts:
1.Sansa (see disgust at dining options, loose new clothes, and her chat with Littlefinger) and Gilly (just guessing here) might both be pregnant. Their offspring will be among the handful of relevant survivors at the end of this story.
2.Jon and Sansa won’t stay BFFs for long. Arya might eventually kill Sansa.
3.Dany will meet her end during her encounter with the White Walkers, at the end of the story (based on her visions at the House of the Undying).
4.Jon will meet his end as the White Walker invasion is resolved.
5.Varys will get out of Mereen before Dany returns. He is the one who ordered Jorah to kill her after all.
6.Dany will break the wheel. No one will sit on a relevant Iron Throne at the end of this story. She will not marry anyone.
I am so grateful for this show and this website. Thank you all!
Tycho Nestoris,
Even if Jon had stayed back at CB with Edd, it would have made no difference. They are barely 20 people in the watch. What would Jon staying there accomplish? If the Wall were to fall, how is he supposed to stop that by himself? Jon staying back at the Wall would only ensure that he dies with Edd.
At least by marching against the Boltons and uniting the N North after their defeat, he can ensure that the people of the North are forewarned about the coming danger and prepare them to face the WWs as much as he can.
Tycho Nestoris,
Didn’t you hear Jon said ‘we can’t fight walkers up north and fight Boltons down south’ and later say to Edd ‘don’t knock it down while I’m away’ which it implies that he has not forgotten the real fight and has intentions to return. Had Sansa not showed up to CB before he left, how long do you think Jon would have stayed away? Do you really think he would have truly abandon the fight against the walkers? Of course not, if you do, you don’t know Jon which is odd because he is truly one of the most straight forward characters in the saga: Jon always strives to do what is right for the greater good and he has a conscience. He may not always act in the most noble way but he has always shown that when he doesn’t he feels remorse. Jon will come back to do what he thinks is his duty, fight the walkers and save Westeros. But you can’t seriously ask for him to forget his family and the love he feels for them. The Starks were presented as a family who loved each other, you saw the siblings interact before it all went to hell, how realistic would it have been for Jon to turn his back on his blood? Edd is a great friend but Robb, Bran and Rickon are his blood brothers, even if of course they may not be. Jon sees them that way,how can anyone fault him for that?
Tycho Nestoris,
You know I would have loved to see Edd saying fuck this and march with those remaining 10 members towards south with Jon ..
The only reason I can come up with leaving his brothers there is that jon and edd think that the wall will able to hold WW and NK and they think they can unite north before NK and WW come knocking ..
ghost of winterfell,
Yes Jon staying there won’t accomplish anything ..
But what does those 10 to 20 members staying there going to accomplish ..
They could have marched south as well .
Please don’t Say they can’t do that because that would be oath breaking ..these are special circumstances they could have gone with jon and no one would have cared ..
The only reason I can come up with is what I said above ..
Are you seriously complaining that Dany isn’t getting enough screentime this season, a week after that gigantic superhero set-piece where she wipes out the khals, walks through fire and gets all the Dothraki to bow down to her? Her scene with Jorah this week was shorter and less spectacular, but very touching and emotionally resonant. How much more do you want? It’s more than obvious that she’s your favorite, but the show can’t be ALL about Dany!
Anybody else get a feeling from Edd’s hopeless scan of his pitiful remaining crew that we’re being set up for an Alamo scene? I’m going to be bummed out when Edd dies, no matter how badass his ending.
Firannion,
Yes I do complain
And I never said she was not my favorite ..
See the difference between me and others is I never said cut off another’s storyline so my favorite can have more screentime ..
I believe even you who complained that the whole scene in episode 4 felt rushed and asked why don’t they spend much time setting up and developing other characters ..
Yes dany gets all those big moments as episode ender which have all been reduced to 5 mins of screentime ..
I believe that scene is what 6 mins and take her talk with dish khalleen and jorah and darrio another 2 mins which makes only 8 mins of episode .
Kingsmoot alone was more than 9 mins ..
So even though she has bigger moments those bigger moments are also takes less screentime compared to other characters.
She had 3 mins of screentime not only in last episode but also in episode 2 as well..
She is marching dothraki out and did we get any scene about where they are going and what they are planning to do ..we just saw all dothraki bow down and now they have become background characters.
And I have been complaining about her screentime and script for season 2 ,4 ,5 as well where they didn’t spend enough time showing her compassion or self doubting from the books..they have just given her ADWD plot to tyrion .and made her another viserys in season 2 where she is complete opposite in ACOK
Firannion,
And like I said in that comment if people are complaining about the storyline which gets most of screentime and say that they ate not spending enough time developing them ..then what about those who get only 3 mins.
I think that’s a very fair question.
And like I said I never said other storylines boring and cut them and focus on what my favourite storyline is..
It seems those comments make it looks like a song Jon and sansa and not song of ice and fire ..
And you never call them out but call me out shows your bias against towards dany as simple as that .
dragonbringer,
Oh come on Jon couldn’t have taken them south even though I think he is going to regret that.No matter how little men there are left he can’t just end the watch altogether.He justifies him leaving with the fact that he literally died and he is right.Plus he has a good plan,they need to unite the north before the white walkers come and he has to do it personally because it’s not like his letters were doing any convincing until now.
Firannion,
Stop making me giggle.. the south’s secret weapon
On a side-note oh PLEASE let Margery have her moment in the sun this season, triumphantly making peace with the High Sparrow, perhaps throwing Lancel under the bus to do it. And then Cercei will go bananas and take her out, accidentally killing Tommen too.
But leave Mace alone. 🙂
Jenny,
That’s why I worded my comment very carefully ..
You see in my comment I never said Jon should take them with him ..but said edd as a LC should have taken the decision ..
No one can question them because its like no one cared about them …a group of 15 to 20 people marching south is not going to change anything.
you are speaking of ending Nw…but what is there to end anyway ..its already ended there is nothing they can do .
Well it’s not ended yet according to them and I don’t think Edd would be comfortable doing that.You could see that he had trouble accepting that jon’s vows had ended I don’t think he would break his own no matter how futile they are at this point.
dragonbringer,
There will never be unity among fans. It’s not possible for everybody to like the same character. Anyway, this is the only GOT related site I check, so I do not know about the extreme examples you give. I only gave my reasoning for liking/ not liking a character.
Tycho Nestoris,
“They care about the small folk because that’s what they think good leaders do not because they actually care.”
I don’t agree with that regarding Jon. He does (or at least did) care. When he couldn’t bare to see scared new recruit Samwell getting beat with a sword it wasn’t because he felt it was “the right thing to do as a leader” it’s cause he had compassion. When he learned about Grenn and Pyp’s circumstances from Tyrion he softened towards them and decided to teach what he knows and become friends. When he couldn’t summon up the courage and perform duty of beheading Ygritte was that not caring about small folk? Yes in so many words. A “good leader” would have done what had to be done. He offered Craster’s daughters and the other women there a place at castle Black, took Olly under his wing even before being made LC. He cared enough about Craster’s baby boys that he followed to see and then had words with commander Mormont about what was taking place. Jon does some things out of a sense of duty but overall he’s just a good person that cares about others especially the less fortunate, the innocent and downtrodden of society.
Jenny,
Then he must be an idiot ..because like I said these are special circumstances ..
If it would have been sam he would have come up with some loophole to leave CB .
Anyways its obvious that edd is going to die at the end of this let it be at the hands of NK .
ghost of winterfell,
That’s why I stopped visiting sites like ImDB and reddit and winte is coming ..
Ionly visit here and westeros.org but not as frequently i used to do.
That’s why I get annoyed sometimes when it comes to theprophecy as well .those who don’t care aboutprophecy or thnk its three characters I can get behind them ..
But there are who claim that if Jon is not fulfilling then prophecy doesn’t matter and no one can be fulfilling them ..and another main character must be a red herrimg .
The one who I speak ofApplemartini even came up with a good one ..
If dany is AAR then AAR is bad
If Jon is AAr then AAr is good ..
I’m looking forward to seeing how it comes to blows in King’s Landing. I can understand how people have their favourite characters and want them on screen as much as possible but there’s an awful lot of arguing going on in here lately over screen time and who’s going to be in the best place at the end.
It’s a shame as I find everyone here very knowledgable and interesting to read but sometimes it gets a bit too angsty.
Thus far this season has been fantastic and I think everyone broadly agrees and is enjoying it. It’s never going to go the way we all personally want it to after all.
Here’s hoping Ayra actually moves on, or at least starts to in this episode. Stuck for 13 episodes in the same place, doing the same thing, has become pretty tedious now. Go get your Needle girl!
I’m sure there will be a lot that happens other than in KL. the photos are never much a of a real clue.
I’m in no hurry to see Popeye the sailor again though. However the actor sees that the character of Euron is a ruthless, cruel pirate, Pilou is completely unconvincing. He doesn’t look the part, he’s far too baby faced, and his Danish accent makes him sound as though he’s lisping when speaking English. It just doesn’t work at all. Miscast unfortunately.
So I´m pretty sure Bran can´t wake up if he isn´t “connected” to some tree-network, right?
what if he goes to the weirwood tree in Winterfell, in the vision, and tries to wake up but he someway goes back to the Tower of Joy flashback, and we see the rest of the vision inside?
dragonbringer,
Sansa lies or at least being ecconomical to the truth is pissing off fans. She’s the one pushing him to fight, finally Stark reunion turning into into these lies. On one hand it’s nice to see her learning and making moves. From my point of view it’s not so much about lie as itself to Jon emo boy but what these lies could cost them all. Thousands of men will die as result of this and my guss it could have been avoided. As we know Vale will enter the fray one way or the other. As I imagine Sansa will be the one victorious and not Jon. Same way it will be with Tyrion and Daeny. Yeah, Sansa is on one way trying to rotect Jon and handling Baelish on her own but it will come and bite them all.
Funny enough. You’re acting sometimes the exact same way as they did. Maybe I get the impression but it seems to me you’re not very fond of Starks or Jon and nothing wrong if true. It’s everybody’s opinion. Especialy when it comes to Daeny. You love her above everyone else ad I get it. I love Starks more than anyone.
All sets of fans are insecure whether it’s Jon, Stannis, Daeny, Sansa, Cat. Most of the people who hate Jon are Cat fans and sometimes well most of time it’s really irrational from both sides. Understand why Cat never loved him or why felt the way he felt.
Kit Hairyton,
She’s not dying
Leaf told her that bran needs her out there
Morrigen,
What were your thoughts on what the NK did to the cave surroundings when he put his hand to the ground? I wasn’t too clear on that, as it didn’t seem to have much effect other than create small tremors (and perhaps made the place colder), but did get me wondering if this is how he brings the Wall down now that he’s defeated BR and the COTF.
Apollo,
I think it was obvious he was testing if he could go in the cave.
Geralt of Rivia,
Oh I do do I
Can you tell me where I said anything bad about Jon or about any character for that matter …
Even in this same thread I spoke for Jon too ..
I only spoke against stannis sometimes in westeros.org and that too stating whats actually present in the book not my own version like those who I reply will do ..
dragonbringer,
Geralt of Rivia,
It seems you have edited your comment ..
Anyways like I said I never feel like defending Jon or sansa or arya because there are many who do that….but I never said anything bad about any of them..I always spoke against the fans who show double standards..
I disagree no one is threatened by arya or tyrion or sansa .ofcourse anyone can love or hate any character but Jon and stannis are in the whole new level ..
dragonbringer,
Some people don’t care for Dany for whatever reason but that doesn’t mean they “hate” her. It doesn’t matter all the good u say she’s done, how special she is, how much power she has, how she went through a lot to get where she is, it really doesn’t matter to the people who at the end of the day just do not click with her. Besides If I were in her shoes personally I’d work with my dragons not lock them up and leave em. I wouldn’t demand ships and loyalty all because I was gifted with them either. Or be able to crucify hundred + men without a trial. Basically, I wouldn’t want the throne if I had to take it with violence. I liked her when she fell in love with the Khal. I liked her when she tried to stop his BR from raping the women and said they’re under her protection. I liked her when she told off her brother in the tent. Later I’ve just been finding her sense of entitlement and deadpan manner annoying.
dragonbringer,
Dragonbringer, this is interesting because I think I found the reason for the disconnect. It is a big difference I think in the views between the readers and some of show watchers. You have the benefit of being privy to more her inner thoughts than we do. I’m not going to read those until GOT is over.
Yeah, I’m not yet sure how this will come about- whether he’ll warg sometime or communicate with mankind/COTF via the WWW, but the way BR called him “Brandon” when he died, really clicked with me somehow.
As for the Wall falling, I go back and forth over this. If we have only 13/15 episodes left after S6, then this makes me think the Wall has to come down at the end of S6 (or at the very latest the beginning of S7). Jon has already foreshadowed this with his parting comments to Edd, so I’m guessing it’s coming sooner rather than later. Besides, with BR/COTF defeated, Bran back south (presumably), Wildlings too, there’s nothing left for the WWs to do but march on the Wall.
If it falls end of S7, One season (or 6/7 episodes) surely won’t be enough time to convince the south, mobilise Westeros and Danys forces, March North, fight the main battle (as well as all the other sub-plots and post battle stuff)?
It’s gonna take at least a few battles with heavy causalties in the north for the south to sit up and take notice, and also-the original long night lasted years (maybe decades), I can’t see it consisting of one big battle with the WWs.
dragonbringer,
Think about after Dany hatched the dragons, how you would feel if the next 4 episodes did not really touch on the fact that she had birthed freaking dragons.
nvm
Firannion,
Could they possibly let Edd live please? I know Davos is becoming his RH but I’d love it if the oldest, truest friend survives. Edd’s had a thankless life and he deserves his time in the sun.
Totally agree.. But I fear he’s toast (along with Davos in fact), or at least skinned 🙁
Halfman,
A voice of reason 🙂
And I don’t know the Pilouu actor from anywhere but I agree he was miscast here. Very underwhelming.
Euron and the actor are great! I’m convinced his a villain pirate. No issues there! Love his portrayal so far
ygritte,
I know what I speak of I completely understand not everyone can love what I like and people have different opinions and taste …but i spoke about those who hate specifically and gave examples of that ..
Everything you list is what I have been complaining about show since season 2 ..they have changed her character into more one dimensional and viserys like where as she is completely different from viserys …and removed her compassion and humility and self doubts totally ..
Read the books when the show is over and compare them with what you read in fansites. ..you will see what I mean when I say about irrational hate ..
For example she doesn’t demand ships she begs for them..
She never forgets about her dragons but constantly worry about them on how to control them train them and how to save them …
ygritte,
Well you mean like where it took them 4 seasons to name them and we still didn’t get the reason behind their names
ghost of winterfell,
Why would that devastate them? Aren’t they all followers of the seven already being from the south?
Or do you mean he’ll join the faith militant like Lancel complete with forehead cutting/scarring? I think that would mean giving up the crown.
This is a ship I’m also happy to board, I said as much on an earlier thread: Euron just made me literally cringe with his big cock (bad pussy anyone?).
I don’t blame Pilou entirely though… His script was downright awful.
What if the TER has been waiting for a Stark strong enough to warg into human beings because the only way to put an end to WW take over is for someone that’s powerful enough to take over the mind of NK? But then why is it important for Bran to learn things from the past that don’t seem to matter to that end? Like, what does it matter he sees who killed the mad King and scenes at WF? I’m sure this had been discussed but I missed it. Remember Isaac Hempstead Wright said he will become “Kingmaker.” Could he become the new NK? If so, then what happens?
Apollo,
Remember S4Ep10? As the wights are chasing Bran and Co. into the cave, they are smashed by an invisible force. Leaf tells them that the power that moves [the wights] is powerless [inside the cave] indicating very powerful magic or magical spells in place there intended to keep wights and WW out. When the NK marked Bran, clearly this gave him some sort of foothold for breaking this spell and entering the cave. So I interpreted that when he touched the ground, it wasnt meant as a physical weapon to bring the cave down, but a magical one that was intended to pierce and break the magical protections on the cave. It’s in my thinking that he has a magical link or ‘rope’ connecting him to Bran now, perhaps that was a representation of the NK using it for his ends. By extension, if Bran passes the wall, the NK may be able to do somethkng similar, and break the spells in place there.
Queenofthrones,
Tommen accepting the Faith would mean he is completely under the HS’ s influence. Cersei would not be pleased with this at all, considering the HS is looking for ways to destroy her and the Lannisters’ power.
No I don’t think Tommen will actually join the Faith Militant like Lancel.
Morrigen,
Good call! That makes a lot of sense. So it stands to reason that the NK will now be able to neutralise the magic holding the wall, and bring it down. I hope/ suspect it’s the season cliffhanger but time will tell.
I don’t think book Euron was all that wonderful to be honest. As for the eye-patch (rip off of “Treasure Island” anyone?) why not go the whole hog and give him a parrot and half a wooden leg! Though I appreciate you did not mention anything about the eye-patch. The bit in the book where a seal stands in as a proxy for Yara (Asha) in a marriage ceremony made me cringe – I’ll concede that
(maybe not read further if you’ve not read the books)
Yara (Asha) in the books scarpered because she was avoiding an unwelcome marriage being forced on her and that Theon wasn’t at the kingsmoot.
I didn’t particularly love the nuncles in the book but then I don’t expect everybody to agree with me and I hope other folk will grant me the courtesy of not expecting me to agree with them.
Apollo,
True, the dialogue did him no favors. But the guy so far is lackluster in this role. My hubby’s been around the last few weeks when I’m watching and tbh I was a little embarrassed at how cringe worthy some of the lines have been. But I’m loving that he seems to be a Jon fan. His attention come away from the computer screen to watch those scenes and a comment on him being a good actor. (Ok so his eyes maybe lingered on the mysterious red priestess too lol. )
Dame of Mercia,
Well you’d never hear me mention the eyepatch etc in a positive light- in fact your opinions here are almost word for word what I’ve stated in previous threads, which makes me chuckle 🙂
Not a fan of book Euron (or the II story) at all in fact, I mean in all honesty he’s a psycopathic paedophile, what’s to like?
ygritte,
Ha! Can’t say I blame the guy for that! I totally agree with the cringeworthy script/delivery and I’m not sure how much more we’ll see of Eu”wrong” this season (and options here are split on that), but I really do hope that the script/delivery/plot improves significantly.
Geralt of Rivia,
The whole premise that Sansa is pushing Jon to fight is just dumb to me. If Sansa wasn’t there and he got that letter wouldn’t he fight? Say Winterfell is Sansa’s objective. The letter still spoke of storming the Castle, flaying the Wildings and O his brother is a prisoner.
There is strong hints LF wrote the letter on the show. But like I maintained, telling Jon and the others about the LF would have been a very bad move on Sansa’s part. He would have access to manipulate everyone at the wall. I also don’t think the BF will come north. The only consequence of that is Sansa sending away Brienne, which I think was LF intentions. Now it’s left to see if she will see his end goals and figure it out. And act
Agreed, LFs scheming will be his undoing IMO, as it’s likely that Brienne will hear from Jaime what his mission is from Cersei. His time is running out..
ygritte,
That Bran is a Kingmaker sounds very intriguing, it might be related to Jon’s storyline. Bran will know Jon is the son of Rhaegar … that he could defeat the Night’s King … I really want to know how is he going to prove it. There might be something hidden in Winterfell’s crypts. Maybe we’lll see Ned hiding something there …
Few things I’m looking forward to
Hopefully rider is “Benjen Hands”, aka Benjen but introduced like Coldhands to pay homage to the book character who won’t be featuring
Randyll Tarly of course. Obviously he’s been introduced as he’ll have a significant role to play in future events
Of course young Ned is in this again, I would expect ToJ interiors are in E10, while I would love to see the Tourney at Harrenhall, LF explained that so, given the behhind the scenes confirmed Arthur Daynes main sword was in fact Dawn and was “white”, I suspect we may see an after the ToJ event where he drops Dawn off at Starfall
Such a Flaschback would perhaps introduce Willa who Ned name-dropped in S1E2 when talking to Robert and lead us in that direction and then perhaps a big curve ball in E10.
It would also perhaps introduce Ashara Dayne, aka Quaithe who I suspect Jorah is about to see for a cure for his arm.
The other possibility is he does go to the Citadel, but I think the suggestion of Asshai and Quaite makes more sense as it ties up the relationship opened up in Qarth in Season 2 and may explain the Asshai like Canary Islands scouting
It also more fully introduces us to the sword Dawn, who cough cough Jon may develop a relationship with down the line…
ygritte,
I think he is going to put or attempt to put Jon into a position of power. Hence, Kingmaker.
Mag,
Flayed Potatoes,
That was my initial thought as well but after last episode I’m thinking it could have double meaning. I think you’re right about something being hidden in the crypts. There needs to be a tangible thing of proof to back up the eventual claim for Jon. Doubt the realm will just accept the word of the two Stark boys. But with TER remark to Bran being the one they’ve been waiting many years for, and also being the most powerful warg. So he’s greenseer plus warg, will know the past, present and future so will be learning all the secrets of, and how the WW operate plus having the ability to jump into a body and take over. He can be at the right place right time at a critical point. I don’t think he’ll just be relaying his visions and warning people but will have some direct part in saving the realms of men.
ygritte,
I agree.
ygritte,
Definitely. Bran will most likely be the most powerful character of them all. He’s like a master of whisperers, but with magic. If he learns how to use his powers, he can be unstoppable.
I think if he needs witnesses he can just track down the people he sees in his visions, or direct the characters to where the necessary evidence is. There is also his word and position as Ned Stark’s son that is important and imo carries a lot of weight.
Raynald Westerling,
I could see her fleeing, but more in triumph because she decided to be true to her self. Maybe just maybe Jaquen wasn’t trying to make her no one, he was trying to make her Arya Stark, as I think Syrio would have.
The last three episode titles revealed by Sky
http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/05/game-of-thrones-episode-608-610-titles.html
Apollo,
Eu-wrong haha well that sums it up, but I guess he’s bound to become more interesting if he’s gonna try and woo the wary dragon queen. Theon and Yara have a big head start so will make it there first. Man, all these people converging in Dany’s part of the world. Thank God it’s about to get spiced up over there! But they probably won’t actually all meet until next season?
Icekhione,
OH cool, thank you!
Beer Island,
Based on Sophie’s and Isaac’s interviews, I believe the lie to Jon won’t be the only controversial action of Sansa this season. They emphasised she has changed and harden.
It’s interesting to watch her character development. She feels safe with Jon. She believes she has a right to Winterfell and she is demanding her brother and bannermen to fight for it. If Littlefinger was there, he would take control because he brings The Vale to the table and he wouldn’t do it for free. I kind of understood her reasoning when she refused Littlefinger’s help. Besides, she was overconfident before talking to Davos.
Sansa didn’t kill Littlefinger because she knows he could be needed. I don’t think Sansa told Jon everything about him. Sansa lied about Lysa’s death. She is hiding a lot of things from Jon, actually.
But it could also be the beginning of some short rivalry between Sansa and Jon. I really want to see her reaction if someone calls her Lady Bolton … or if Robb’s inheritance appear and the Northerners want Jon to take the Stark name. Sansa could be a little bit jealous or worried about Bran’s and Rickon’s rights to Winterfell… But I hope Bran arrives Winterfell before the season ends.
Icekhione,
Really?????, Battle of Bastards??? That doesn’t sound nice. I suppose many people guessed The Winds of Winter for the season finale … And “No one”, please don’t kill Arya Stark. So, Arya will fight the Waif in episode 7 ???? …. Will she arrive in time to kill Walder Frey???? I won’t mind a teleport for Arya to kill him.
OK, if I misjudged your opinions, sorry. I’ll reserve judgement on Pilou as Euron. On both book version and show version Euron is as mad as a box of frogs. Not that there haven’t been mad rulers both in fiction and reality (Mad King Targaryan whose actions helped incite Robert’s Rebellion – Juana la Loca [just one example] in real world history).
I woke up with an epiphany – I think Peter wrote and sent the pink letter.
He says to Sweet Robin when he showed him the bird – “come and see”.
Also, a way out there theory, I think we will see that Jon is Azor Ahai when Ned witnesses his birth.
Mad King Aerys is of course fictional though he might have been inspired by real mad – or at least eccentric – kings.
Cersei told Qyburn to send Varys’s birds to the North, Dorne, High Garden, and throughout the city. By the end of the season, or next season, depending on how events go down, she could essentially learn of 2 more “younger queens.”
Sansa in the North
Dany once she lands in Dorne or firebombs it
I’m looking forward to her learning about Sansa.
The more I think, the more I’m leaning towards Bran having built the Wall. It will be full circle when the Wall falls soon in front of his eyes. I think Bran will permanently warg someone from way past and just stay there when the series ends. Reminds me very much of Babylon 5 and how the original Minbari-human connection was forged.
I’m completely with you! Euron is just the sort of campy villain the majority of the Ironborn deserve at the moment. The only sane IB left with sane Yara! 😀
Kay,
I agree!
Last night, I posted here comparing and contrasting Dany and Jon, but my comment was under moderation. Both Dany and Jon are good people, as I’ve said. Where they differ is that Dany is fire while Jon is both ice and fire or perhaps only ice, so far.
Dany represents the “Fire and Blood” of the Targaryen line. Even though her heritage isn’t purely Targaryen, she symbolizes all that is fire and will be even further embracing her Targaryen nature in the episodes and books to come, according to George and Emilia.
With fire, we can associate fiery emotions and temperament: passion. This passion is what makes Dany lovable and makes others love to follow her. This passion makes her an excellent leader and conqueror. This passion, however, also leads her to rash decisions that are often not in the best interest of those she is fighting for, which makes her less than ideal as a ruler. For example, the cities of Slaver’s Bay shouldn’t have been conquered and freed until there was a solid plan for keeping the cities free or at least a plan for preventing the masters from retaliating and making the lives of the enslaved worse than they had been before.
Ice is the head while fire is the heart. Ice represents the cool, calm, and collected attributes of reason and logic: decisions are made by thinking rather than heated emotions. Ice people may not make for great leaders because the general public responds much better when you appeal to their hearts rather than their heads. Ice is nice, but fire inspires. Fire is better for inspiring followers and for conquering, because warriors need to be passionately engaged with a fire for fighting. But ice is better for ruling because the logic and reasoning of ice will balance all possible risks and ramifications, choosing the best of all possible outcomes, before acting.
Thus far, Jon has represented the ice of the Starks, the First Men, the Northerners, the Night’s Watch. He has shown great compassion but certainly not the fiery passion we see in Dany. However, he has shown the calm and cool gifts of reason and logic, which lend themselves to making better long-term decisions, better nation-building, and better ruling.
When R + L = J is revealed, we may see Jon embracing his fiery side, as well. He may be the song of ice and fire, or he and Dany together may be that song.
As of now, I think the same as you with respect to the dynamic between Sansa and Jon. But given Jon’s nature, I believe there will be no real “rivalry.” I believe, that after the Battle, with his Wildlings practically decimated, and his side winning with the help of LF, and Sansa STARK being established at Winterfell with LF as her trusted ally, he will realize the utter futility of his path since Sansa arrived at Castle Black and how that led to the death of many, who never wanted to be involved in the wars of the South. I think he will either go back to CB, or if that is destroyed by then, he will go South.
Dee,
As the show comes to an end, we need more expedient methods of removing fractions of populations who are destructive and evil. What if: all the bloodthirsty IB under Euron are wiped out by the end, and Yara’s IB survive for the future? 😀
OMFG if this is legit
Apollo,
That’s what I was thinking. O m g scary shit
Kay,
Well that’s what should happen.. Haha
I hadn’t considered him staying locked in the past permanently … It’s certainly a possibility from what we’ve seen.
Brans ability to alter the future by communicating with the past is crucial. There must be more to it than him simply shouting Neds name and then warging Wyllas (as significant and pivotal as that was). There must be something huge to come in terms of communicating / influencing the past and I think those two “minor” events were designed to prepare us /Bran for the big reveal.
Warging Dragons is one thing- and we’ve known he can probably do that for a while now, we’ve only just learned of how far reaching his powers really are.
Like you said, Bran being responsible for the fall of the Wall that he in turn helped create (likely at the end of this season judging by the episode titles), will be the ultimate temporal loop- exactly like poor Hodors sacrifice.
I am so goddamn amazed by this season! 🙂
ghost of winterfell,
Jon staying back at the Wall would only ensure that he dies with Edd.
To me, that’s a lot.
Danny,
I don’t think Jon abanoned Edd to WW. I think he abandoned him to Ramsay. That’s why I mentioned CB’s lack of southern defenses and the letter. I also disagree that Jon is more brother to Rickon and Sansa than he is to Edd. I think it’s a good discussion though.
ygritte,
Well, Jon was going to kill Ygritte until he saw her face and hair (book wise). In the show he’s not sparing Tormund or any other wilding in that situation imo.
Yep, yep!! 😀 Sounds that way. Poor LF at Winterfell will have a shock when the WWs come marching down to Winterfell soon enough!
This is exactly IT! A closed temporal loop is what I am thinking of, with the Wall being both Bran’s creation and his ultimate destruction……
Wow, I think I missed that interview!
Why, indeed, is Bran so vital? I do believe that his Stark-ness is part of the reason, given that the Night’s King could be a Stark, that the Starks have the blood of the First Men, and that the Starks are wargs. Having been raised together as brothers, Bran is in the unique position of being one of the few people on Planetos who can convince Jon how critical it is to the survival of mankind that he embraces his destiny as AAR or TPTWP. And, based on this quote, it sounds like he’ll make Jon king, as well.
Bran’s ability to see everything – past, present, and future – makes him the ultimate spymaster, too. He’ll be able to advise his brother (cousin) on the key moves to winning the war, ending the Long Night, and defeating the Others forever.
Dany looks thirsty in that one pic. And not for water
Ginevra,
Yeah I agree he’ll make Jon king in some way.Also the earthquake comment does that imply that he will indirectly cause the fall of the wall?Or is it a metaphorical earthquake?
Also I agree so much with your analysis of jon and dany.Well done.
Yay!!!!!!!
Thank you! Yes, the earthquake comment was incredibly interesting. I hope that Bran isn’t the cause of the Wall falling. He already did enough damage with Hodor, so I would hate for him to be the cause of such utter devastation – even unwittingly. But the Wall falling would create earthquake-like tremors. What the foreshadowed earthquake particularly reminds me of, though, is this prophecy:
Tycho Nestoris,
You mean Jon should have stayed at the Wall and died with Edd instead of being more useful ( in preparing for the WWs arrival? )elsewhere? It’ll be sad if Edd dies because of the Wall falling, but I don’t see how Jon can be blamed in this.
OT:
OMG
To my fellow football fans
And since I’m a Madrid lover (real Madrid )
This is awesome – Emilia + Madrid ❤️❤️❤️❤️
http://deportes.atresmedia.com/futbol/champions-league/2015-16/emilia-clarke-da-nos-pronostico-para-la-final-de-champions-entre-real-madrid-y-atletico_201605285749c68e4beb2888806639dc.html
ygritte,
I’d say so, although it could happen end of this season, with the way the pace of the story is speeding up.
Kay,
I don’t think Jon will feel that it was futile to involve the Wildlings in the Battle of the Bastards. It was not like they had any choice in this matter. Ramsey directly threatened to kill them. The Wildlings have been forced into the battle by Ramsey.
I also think Ramsey may head to Castle Black to get Sansa, and that Edd & the NW are in danger of being wiped out. But, I don’t think they will be. I think it will Tormund & his Wildings who will drive the Boltons away. Ramsay can’t afford a big battle at CB. He knows he has to hold Winterfell. If he has Rickon then he has a Stark at Winterfell. For now.
I can’t help but wonder if Ramsey kills Littlefinger. I can imagine Littlefinger going to try to make some kind of deal or act as a go between with Ramsey, and having it all backfire on him.It would take all of two seconds for the Knights of the Vale to pledge allegiance to Sansa Stark. At least this is what I hope might happen.
ghost of winterfell,
Uh….. OK!
But, when Jon finds out that instead of going with the Wildlings and the forces from the Lesser Houses, they could have had the backing of the Vale army ALL ALONG, do you still think that ONLY Ramsay was responsible for the death of the Wildlings? I think I know what your answer will be, already! 😉
Hawk,
Cersei knew Sansa was to marry Roose Bolton’s son. Littlefinger told her he had “discovered” this: that the Boltons were harboring Sansa Stark and she was to marry Roose’s newly legitimate son. Cersei was angry at the Bolton’s betrayal, and appointed Littlefinger Warden of the North (well Tommen did it technically). That happened last season.
Kay,
SO excited!
I have a funny feeling Sansa will kill LF in episode 10 at WF after finding out what schemes he’s been up to. That will fit with the GoHH prophecy, and if the wall is falling in ep 10, they need to clear the board of as many secondary characters as possible. 🙂
ghost of winterfell,
I think Ramsay will kill Edd not WW.
Tycho Nestoris,
I’m worried about who are burning in those crosses at Winterfell.
This is confusing to me. When and where did I ever accuse you of saying she was not your favorite? Anybody who reads two or three of your posts will get it immediately that she is. And that’s absolutely fine, as long as you don’t try to cram your preferences down other readers’/viewers’ throats.
I have seen maybe one or two brief instances here of people saying that Dany’s storyline ‘should’ be cut to make more room for others, and it’s usually in the context of them saying that they find her storyline boring and wouldn’t miss it. And that is their taste and their right. Why take it so personally and keep repeating and repeating it, to the point of obsession, like it’s some huge conspiracy?
No, what I said was that I would have preferred a scene where Dany wins over and empowers the Dosh Khaleen to rebel collectively against their captivity. Not that I expect to get what I want from the showrunners, but to me that would’ve been way more interesting than Dany whipping out her superpowers again. I never said that I wanted the Dany segment to be longer. I already find most of her scenes too long and tiresome.
Eight minutes in a single episode is huge. There are hundreds of characters, and very very few get anything near that much. Dany has been one of the focal characters in the show right from the get-go. Character development onscreen (as opposed to internal monologues in the books) is skimpy and shorthand across the board. That’s just the nature of the medium, as the show-only folks love to remind us books-first folks.
I’m sorry, but your oft-repeated contention that Dany is being persecuted by the show or the fans just does not hold water. GRRM clearly loves her, D & D clearly love her, a huge portion of the fanbase clearly loves her. You’re just going to have to learn to coexist with those of us who don’t find her particularly relatable as a character or her story arc particularly interesting, or who are turned off by what we perceive as a very narrow acting range on Clarke’s part.
No one here is out to get you.
This is one of the mysteries that I am most eager to see cleared up! Hope GRRM takes us to the Isle of Faces, even if D & D don’t find time to squeeze it in. Sounds like a magical power center to rival the 3ER’s Weirnet Central north of the Wall.
Oh wait a minute… Binky is white, isn’t he? I stand corrected, by my own sputtering memory.
I’ve just thought about this, maybe the Old foe that the preview reads it’s actually
.
It’s quite soon to reintroduce Walder Frey, not until the aftermath of the parlay of Jaime VS The Blackfish.
It never quite sank in for me that Bloodraven was half a Blackwood. Suddenly I’m remembering the scene where Jaime visits the seat of House Blackwood to try to broker a peace with their longtime enemies, House Bracken, and in their godswood he sees an immense dead weirwood, covered with hundreds of roosting ravens. Hmmmm…
This is not an issue. We are explicitly told that nouns in Old Valyrian are not gender-differentiated. The Valyrian word for ‘prince’ could equally signify ‘princess,’ just as ‘valonqar’ could just as easily mean ‘younger sister’ rather than ‘younger brother.’ In the case of the Valonqar Prophecy, this could be a crucial detail, in that Cersei may be jumping to way-wrong conclusions about who’s a threat to her. The author may be deliberately using the phrase ‘Prince that Was Promised’ is a similarly misdirecting way.
I would treat my books more reverentially than that, but I might be tempted to put a foot through my TV screen, or toss it out my third-floor window. That’s a healthy thing to do periodically anyway, IMO.
Where is the law written that says that commenters on this site have to allocate equal time to ‘calling out’ anybody?
Your posts tend to push my buttons (and those of some others as well, I expect) because you are like a broken record: ‘Poor, poor Dany needs defending, everyone is so unfair to her’ ad nauseam. I could go back through some strings and count the posts and a full quarter of them would be yours about Dany. I don’t see anybody else hijacking threads, relevant or not, to try to make them all about a single character who happens to be their favorite. So no one else gives me reason to ‘call them out’ in that respect. The obsessiveness of it gets tiresome, is all.
Have a nice day.
Firannion,
Good memory. I had forgotten about the dead weirwood, actually, but that is an intriguing point. Bloodraven had eyes everywhere. Makes you wonder how many of the messenger ravens he might have warged as well.
Firannion,
I don’t recall the exact quote, but Maester Aemon makes a point in the books about this, specifically, mentioning that the Valyrian word for “dragon” is gender neutral. He was speaking in terms of the Prince Who was Promised, convinced that Danny was the one, of that much I do remember.
Popeye the sailor! ROFL
They should have had him sing, “I yam Euron Greyjoy, brother of Balon Greyjoy, and that’s all what I yam…”
I agree with all of this, and with the posters who said that the writing was also at fault. In fact, I would put part of the blame on the director as well. When Euron says, ‘I’m not going to seduce her; the Iron Fleet will seduce her,’ he puts the stress in the first half of the sentence on ‘seduce’ instead of where it belongs, on ‘I’m.’ That strikes me as the sort of amateurish line misreading that a director would correct after the very first take. In fact, an actor who has read the script through more than once should have already figured out where the contrast lies verbally, between the two halves of that comparison.
Still, there was a lot to enjoy in the Kingsmoot scene: in the terrific face-acting between Theon and Yara and in the gorgeous scenery!
I also spotted Ralph Ineson, the actor who played Dagmer Cleftjaw, and wondered how he survived the Bolton takeover of Winterfell; didn’t the Boltons wipe out the Ironborn garrison, with the exception of Theon? Ramsay said that he’d flayed them all, in his letter to Balon. OK, Ramsay brags; but if some managed to escape, I’d love to hear their story. [Yes, Wimsey, I know that it doesn’t matter in the Big Picture, but I’d still enjoy hearing it!]
In addition to the gender neutral nature of the Valyrian word for dragon, the dragons can switch their sex to ensure species survival. Someone mentions this… maybe Sam or Aemon.
To paraphrase a popular Yiddish saying, from your mouth to GRRM’s/D & D’s ears!
I love Dolorous Edd too: my Eeyore, my Marvin, standing up for depressives everywhere! But I hold out little hope for more than a quick and painless heroic death for him, alas. No flaying, please. If Edd Tollett gets flayed, I am personally organizing a posse with torches and pitchforks to storm HBO headquarters.
My one flicker of hope lies in the irony of the one guy who always presumes that the worst is about to happen to him becoming the one guy who lives Happily Ever After. GRRM likes irony. So maybe there’s a slight chance.
Meera and Bran heading to the Wall from the North….
Ramsay & Co. heading to the Wall from the South….
Interesting thought. But I suspect that Bran also needs a more mobile sidekick capable of yanking the dragonglass shard out of the NK’s heart – maybe while Bran immobilizes him by warging?
I enjoyed the books’ description of Arya’s training in the HoBaW much more. When she’s blind, for example, she’s not sitting on the street with a begging bowl waiting for the Waif to come along and whack her with a quarterstaff. She’s exploring every inch of the HoBaW and its underground passages, learning to rely on all her other senses. It’s very much an extension of her Water Dancer education in the bowels of the Red Keep. All we get of that in the show is the brief-but-good montage of her learning to tell poisons apart by smell. And of course, they opted not to show her warging the cat or her dreams of Nymeria. It didn’t have to be tedious!
Me neither – except for the Reader, Lord Harlaw. I’m a sucker for bookworm characters.
A thought, but probably not a good one: Could the showrunners’ real reason for depicting Ser Arthur Dayne as dual-wielding be that they plan to show Ned turning over the second sword to the Dayne family but claiming Dawn as a trophy of battle, then hiding it in the Winterfell crypts for some future use?
If they’re going to show the visit to Starfall first, before the final ToJ reveal, and introduce Wylla there, that would present a good opportunity to fake out the Unsullied one more time: Have Ned look Wylla up and down, his eyes lingering on her (lactating, but the audience doesn’t know that yet) ample bosom and say something like, ‘Yes, as a matter of fact, there is something that you could do for me, lass!’ Heehee.
Setting aside my own personal preference for the Ashara = Septa Lemore tinfoil theory, how would Jorah have any clue how to find Quaithe? For all we know, she may not have been bodily present in Essos when she appeared to Dany to convey her prophecies. Those might just have been glass-candle materializations, the Planetos version of Skype.
Some red priest/ess might be able to give Jorah the Moqorro>Victarion treatment and magically burn off his rotting arm, though.
And we see in the previews for the next episode that Meera says over and over, ‘I’m so sorry.’ That doesn’t make her one of the Sorrowful Men. ‘Come and see’ is such a common phrase that I for one am not leaping to read too much into it.
My thought after the Kingsmoot scene was more like, ‘Euron and Dany deserve each other. Iron Price, Fire and Blood; what’s the diff?’
This is a well-thought-out analysis. But after the last episode, I came away with a very strong sense that Bran’s greatest weakness is how impulsive he is. He repeatedly makes rash decisions that lead to disastrous consequences because he’s bored or curious and does not give enough weight to the advice of older, more experienced people.
So how does that mesh with him being on the ‘Ice’ end of the spectrum, do you think? Not meaning to pick your argument apart – just wanting help in perceiving how all these motifs fit together.
I keep thinking about all the references in the books to seismic/geothermal activity in Westeros: hot springs at Winterfell, lava caves deep beneath Dragonstone etc. They seem to foreshadow a second Doom of Valyria at some future date (presuming that the Doom was a massive volcanic eruption like what happened at Thera/Santorini, which essentially ended the Minoan civilization).
Earthquakes have a tendency to destabilize faults and the contact points of tectonic plates, releasing built-up tensions in ways that can trigger more earthquakes and volcanic activity. So if Isaac is talking literal earthquakes, all I can say is, Bran had best be careful! We don’t want Jon having to star in Pompeii a second time; the first was reportedly awful enough.
Yes. All she has to do is spill the beans to Sweetrobin about who really killed his Mama. It puzzles me why Baelish doesn’t seem more worried about this.
Plus, he foolishly humiliated Bronze Yohn Royce, who is not a man to be trifled with (at least in the books, where he is one of Westeros’ most legendary living fighters, with magical ancient bronze armor that makes him invincible; the show paints him as more of a Macelike buffoon).
Ooh, good call, and much less obvious than Walder! That ‘hallucination’ is about due to happen, methinks – after which we get to see Tyrion pour the wine back into the carafe. Time to get serious.
There are quite a few species in the real world that do this, including a number of fishes, as well as plants, amphibians and invertebrates. For example, there are snails that stay male through a series of growth phases until they have enough body mass to support reproduction, and then turn female. It’s called sequential hermaphroditism. So GRRM is trying to ground his fabulous beasts in actual biological science as best he can. Pretty cool, no?
Yeah, let’s see how he reacts to being called an “idiot” by the one he covets.
JemFX,
It could surely go that way and would be very interesting.but I hope they don’t play it out for too long and eventually she comes around to help the good ppl fight evil. But obviously everyone is westeros is her enemy and she’s sworn to break the wheel so upon her arrival shell be everyone’s worst nightmare as well as probably the audiences who would want her to stop being so unreasonable
Ooo, that is an excellent counterpoint. In the books, Bran is seven in AGoT. Would that make him twelve in TWoW when he made such a monumental mistake? I would say that Bran has had to grow up too quickly and he seems to be rebelling against authority, testing his boundaries, as youth is wont to do. He definitely acted rashly and out of sync with his ice nature, but if he uses this mistake as an opportunity to learn from his past, he will be able to fully embrace his ice nature as he comes of age. We shall see how he handles himself as we move forward.
Firannion,
Oh please .
And what was your response to those people ..If you are a just person you should have said this is a story where there will be characters you like and you don’t like that doesn’t mean characters you don’t like are not important..
But instead you accused me of wanting only dany’s storyline .which I clearly don’t ….so I responded why you didn’t accuse others who do that..I don’t go repeating Ionly respond..
And how do you think that will be done with more screentime and the supporting characters ger developed. .
Eight mins where the characters have big set piece is not much like I said even kingsmoot is longer than what dany gets…another instance where I only responded to those who are asking for more screentime for those who already have it ..it was a valid question and not shoving down my preference ..and unlike others I don’t go calling out cutting others so my favorite could have more time as well..
Firannion,
This is interesting ..
There are no rules ofcourse but if you are going to be so high and mighty then you should have called who those actually does that things ( wanting the story about their favorite alone ) where I do not want you accused me of it ..hence my question
Hijacking every thread . i dont even post much often .. you do realise i was responding to already present discussion and responding to who every quote ..go back and find any post of mine like you said and all of it will be me making a response to already present discussion ..I don’t go repeating or thinking I should hijack this thread ..
Again with comment like how my posts will be mostly about dany …of course it’s going to be because she is my fvorute character.. Atleast i am posting only about what i like and how it changes from books in some ways or how the show is good unlike who post only about what they don’t like say you…have you failed to make a comment about how you dont like dany or making aome stupid comparsion to just make her evil any thread you post ..clearly not …and that’s your preference I know I can’t change that… its only when you say something thats not in the source material like dany is not there to see how tyrion feeds a city in siege or tyrion can talk out of his way with dotharki ..I responded to those alone because its not present in source material and complete opposite of what you were saying ..
So get off your high horse and have a nice day .
If Jon finds out about this, I don’t know if he will, all his anger would turn towards Sansa. Which would then lead to Jon vs Sansa. This is definitely possible. On the other hand, Sansa, after realising that the Blackfish won’t be able to help and that the other Northern Houses do not have many men to spare, might tell Jon about the Vale before the battle starts and he will be aware that she will get the Vale Army into the battle. I am curious where the Jon-Sansa relationship will go in the following episodes.
What I had meant was that Jon would not feel that involving the Wildlings in the battle was futile, as they had no choice in this.
If Ramsey finds out that Jon, Sansa and an army of Wildlings are marching South, trying to recruit the other Northern Houses to their cause, why would Ramsey then head to the Wall with his fighters who would otherwise be available for the coming battle, just to kill the remaining NW men? What would he gain from this. Would it not be more likely for him to spend his time making his own preparations for battle? I don’t think Ramsey is headed to the Wall.
ghost of winterfell,
You want me to predict Ramsay?(sarc)
If Ramsay finds out Sansa left CB I suppose he’d hunt her. That’s a big if imo. Ramsay would need well placed spies. That’s more Roose’s modus operandi.
If Ramsay thinks Sansa is at CB he’s going there. That’s a smaller if cause he already knows she’s (was) there.
Certainly makes running for an elevator that’s about to depart, a bit more interesting.
My question is, why hasn’t he? It’s something I’ve been wondering for a while. He clearly knows Sansa is at CB, yet all he’s done is sit on his arse for half the season. I know he’s trying to mobilise forces and the show needs to build up to the main battle, but he’s already well enough provisioned to battle the remnants of the watch/Wildlings, and has expressed his intent to do this several times.
That dude needs to do something other than killing off secondary characters (that’s sooo season 3).
Expected stuff (based on trailer and photos)
North of the Wall – Benjen or Coldhands save Bran. Meera may have tried to sacrifice herself by causing a diversion, but I hope that help arrives before that and she survives. Some more visions from Bran – probably of young(ish) Ned and Benjen?
Braavos – The play shows Joffrey’s death. Other than that, no clue. Possible violent confrontation beteween Arya and Waif. Since Arya failed her first target, I want her to not fail this time.
King’s Landing – Margaery will be freed. Loras will join the Poor Fellows asking for penance. Tommen receives some bad news/revelations. Kevan and/or Cersei hears about the Tullys taking Riverrun, orders Jaime to recapture it. Or Jaime and Cersei have a proper break-up.
Dothraki Sea – Dany plans next move. Drogon appears on the sky. Possibly returning to Dany for good, because she has returned to ‘Fire and Blood’.
Riverlands – Walder Frey is angry at the return of Blackfish, asks the crown to help them against usurpers. If some regular character meets with the Freys it will be Brienne or Littlefinger.
The Reach – Sam and Gilly meets the Tarlys. Unlikely to be eventful, expected to have some funny moments.
Wishful thinking (backed by rumours)
The North – Jon, Sansa and Davos talk to Lyanna Mormont.
Iron Islands – Brief glimpse of Theon and Asha, where Asha lays out her future plans. Brief glimpse of Euron murdering some lord who disobeyed him, slowly setting hip up to be the new Ramsay.
Riverlands The Brotherhood returns! (or the Outlaw band). Hopefully Gendry made it back miraculously to BwB, too?
Meereen – Tyrion having a hallucination about Shae.
What I hope we don’t see:
Anything Dornish.
One of the my most favourite series i just want to know when game of throne season 8 released ???