Game of Thrones Season 8 News Roundup: Set Visits, Charred Sets & Set-Sized Dragons

Wall - Beyond Frozen Lake 7x06 Dragons Drogon Viserion Rhaegal Wights

Con of Thrones 2018 has come and gone in what must have felt like an uneventful week for those in the Watchers on the Wall community who couldn’t attend the convention. For those of us who were there, however, or at least for me, it feels like a lifetime since I last brought you the latest filming news. Yet here we are, back into the swing of things! Con of Thrones content, in particular interviews with the cast, will be coming in the days to come, but meanwhile let’s see what we missed on this last week we were all busy going from panel to panel and meeting so many wonderful people, shall we?

Let’s start with something that’s not technically related to Game of Thrones but still deserves a mention: as reported by Deadline, Warner Animation Group is adapting George R.R. Martin’s children’s book The Ice Dragon for the big screen. Despite the familiar name, the book is not set in the world of A Song of Ice and Fire, though there are similar themes. Martin is producing the film, though his level of involvement is unclear, given how busy he must be with other projects and a certain sixth book.

Onto season eight! There have been a few set visits of note lately. Recently, Emilia Clarke revealed that George Lucas had not only visited the set of Solo, the new Star Wars spin-off in which she co-stars, but also the Game of Thrones set in Belfast. An even more intriguing visitor is Jason Momoa, who our sources sighted in Belfast before the actor himself revealed he was with his pals David Benioff and Dan Weiss, the showrunners.


Of course, the most likely explanation is that Momoa is just visiting his old friends, as he has in the past, but I don’t believe the alternative is out of the question: before the story is over, could Daenerys have another vision of Khal Drogo, as she did in season two?

Our sources also told us that Kit Harington is currently staying in Belfast, as well as American television host Conan O’Brien, who is there to interview the cast.

As for season eight filming news, they have been scarce lately, thankfully for us at Watchers, who weren’t particularly eager to go up to our hotel rooms, do our jobs and miss all the fun. The news were gracious enough to wait until yesterday, just when I returned home from the States: A Red Priestess has new photos of the King’s Landing set!

Most things, including the Lannister banners on the Red Keep, appear to be the same; but what's that in the middle?

Most things, banners included, are unchanged; but what’s with the dome? Photo: A Red Priestess

The Dubrovnik-based dome has been modified to appear burnt down. Photo: A Red Priestess

The Dubrovnik-based dome has been modified to appear burnt down. Photo: A Red Priestess

The King's Landing dome before & after it was destroyed.

The King’s Landing dome before & after it was destroyed.

UPDATE: Irish Thrones got a rather furtive peek into the studios, where, right in front of the Paint Hall, thousands of props laid on the ground. As you may be able to tell, they are all broken pieces of the city’s architecture, which means they will be scattered through the set for the scenes in which King’s Landing has already suffered much damage:

Photo: Irish Thrones

Photo: Irish Thrones

Photo: Irish Thrones

Photo: Irish Thrones

Not only do we have all this evidence of more of the capital being incinerated but also of one of the likely suspects behind it all: a dragon (or part of it, anyway), in the parking lot of Belfast’s Titanic Studios, near the King’s Landing set, though not in it. Take a look:

 Notice the massive size of the dragon's spine. Photo: A Red Priestess

Notice the massive size of the dragon’s spine. Photo: A Red Priestess

How could this be? Aren’t dragons VFX magic? Well, mostly. You see, when performers have to interact with these imaginary creatures, a number of methods are used to make it work: on the one hand, if the actor only has to touch the dragon’s head, as Jon did in “Eastwatch”, any vaguely dragon head-shaped object will do; on the other hand, if they have to actually mount on the dragon, its entire spine has to be physically recreated.

For flying scenes, Emilia Clarke uses a dragon-shaped buck which moves in all the appropriate ways as wind is thrown in her face. And yet, this massive contraption cannot be moved, so the mounting and dismounting scenes on the ground require a more simple prop, like the one you see above. One such prop was used for “Beyond the Wall”, when the wight-hunting party had to get on Drogon to survive, but it was much smaller:

The static Drogon buck for season seven. Photo: Kevin Patterson

The static Drogon buck for season seven. Photo: Kevin Patterson

Remember how large the dragons were in season seven as you look at the relatively small prop they used. That’s because the only part of Drogon that was built was the part the actors would have to interact with to mount on the creature’s spine. Now look back at the massive prop they built for season eight, with the same purpose (three climbing holds can be discerned), and try to imagine the size of the dragons in season eight!

75 responses

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    1. 1st of all Drogon will be bigger. 2nd, the extended back allows for multiple people to ride the dragon, so they can be easily dropped off in a war zone.

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    2. I remember last season there was a spirited argument over whether Drogon or Balerion was larger. It looks like we may be able to put that argument to bed based on this article, but can’t be sure until we see the finished product.

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    3. Mr Derp,
      I recall people trying to compare the two but Balerion should still be bigger than Drogon’s current size considering these dragons are suppose to never stop growing as long as there’s food and Balerion lived to ~200 years old. By description Balerion was immense.

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    4. Jason Momoa in Belfast with Benioff and Weiss. Just visiting? I think not.

      Well, there we have it: Dany reuniting with Khal Drogo in the afterlife…Confirmed!

      (Just kidding. It could be anything. Jason M. is such a dedicated fanboy he might very well just be visiting to pre-squee.)

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    5. Clob,

      Fortunately, it’s not really a debate that I have much invested in, so it could go either way and I’d be just fine with it 😉

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    6. Catspaw Assassin:
      Can Viserion grow if he’s dead?

      In my opinion I would say no if it’s suppose to be an animated dead dragon, which is what they made it appear to be. That would be saying it’s a wight-dragon as opposed to a White Walker-esque dragon. Some still call Viserion an ice dragon but those were a living species that typically grew larger than Valyrian dragons. Of course they can do whatever they want on the show…

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    7. mau,

      I disagree. I don’t believe Viserion can “grow” anymore. If anything, he will rot away considerably. Remember…he’s a corpse. There’s no living or growing tissue…just decay.

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    8. Catspaw Assassin:
      Can Viserion grow if he’s dead?

      I thought the reason why they show the NK touching Viserion, the same way he did with Craster kids, was to indicate that he’s a white walker instead of a simple wight-dragon? Otherwise, the NK could just had done it the same way he did at Hardhome

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    9. Oh, this is interesting! More burnt KL!

      That dragon prop is massive! Huge!

      I’d tend to think it’s Drogon because a) not sure if Viserion can grow; and b) it seems to have a “riding platform” for several people, not sure the NK would let anybody else ride his undead dragon.

      What about poor Rhaegal? Everybody forgets him/her! Is he/she going the way of Ghost – Jon Snow’s supernatural pets just… kinda fade away and disappear… 🙁

      As to Jason Momoa, he mentions layover in his instagram, so probably he just took the opportunity to meet up with friends… But I don’t think it’s out of the realms of possibility that he has filmed a brief “vision” scene, whatever that might be. We shall see. BTW, he made such a huge impact in his relatively few scenes in S1 that the whole fandom still remembers him, 7 years on!

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    10. I think we can safely say that’s Drogon not viserion…. and with that info we now know it will be Dany who attacks kings landing not old frosty the snowman

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    11. Ten Bears: Well, there we have it: Dany reuniting with Khal Drogo in the afterlife

      Mayhaps Drogo will be used to explain the no-children prophecy in such a way that the prophecy will not interfere will Dany’s current pregnancy and future children.

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    12. Does anyone know where Sophie Turner is? She hasn’t been seen anywhere in the last few days so I think she is in Belfast. If they are interviewing the cast she should be there. Her tweet a few weeks ago was probably not about her last day of filming after all…

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    13. this set picture really thrills me. an obviously dead or heavily wounded dragon of this colossal size, prepared for filming of horizontal and vertical action around it’s body… just wow!

      i can’t figure out at what height the climbing holds are fixed, but i think they are very high. very. so, will it probably not be climbing we’ll see as vertical action – but some stubborn passengers of Drogon Airlines refusing to leave the crashed plane because they estimate the environment on the ground to be quite hostile at the time?

      (with climbing equipment being mentioned here right in time, allow me to add an OT laugh i had yesterday. i had to buy a climbing helmet. need it for a job next week where i should at least wear a helmet. i checked the catalogue of a local store, and they had a model manufactured by a quite renowned company.

      that helmet model was called Elia.

      i bought another model.)

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    14. talvikorppi,

      “What about poor Rhaegal? Everybody forgets him/her!…
      —————-
      No, of course not. Aegon’s warrior princess sister will need a dragon to ride.

      👸🏻🐉

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    15. Frosteven:
      mau,

      I disagree. I don’t believe Viserion can “grow” anymore. If anything, he will rot away considerably. Remember…he’s a corpse. There’s no living or growing tissue…just decay.

      In S7E7, when he was flying, they showed his wings looking tattered (and the wight-polar bear looked pretty decomposed). I don’t know about decomposition post-wightification, but I think they likely don’t grow

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    16. Thanks to everyone who replied to my question about dead dragons being able to grow. I don’t believe they can, but this is a fictional show after all.

      Or is it? (⊙ ⊱⊙)

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    17. krupke,

      Yep, I was going to mention that. The scene when NK and V were flying towards The Wall, Viserion’s wings were already showing decay. One has to wonder if he will even be able to breathe “fire” once he rots to the point of being skeletal, as the wights eventually become. Although, I have a feeling he will be destroyed before that happens.

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    18. Clob:
      Mr Derp,
      I recall people trying to compare the two but Balerion should still be bigger than Drogon’s current size considering these dragons are suppose to never stop growing as long as there’s food and Balerion lived to ~200 years old.By description Balerion was immense.

      Not disagreeing with you but this is exactly the sort of thing I could see the show over looking for an epic final few episodes.

      Also not reported here but Irish Thrones on twitter made two comments, that people were filming a scene where they duck down and possibly there are more than one dragon involved.

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    19. Catspaw Assassin: Can Viserion grow if he’s dead?

      Do wights eat and defecate? Where would his increased mass come from? All things wight should be decaying at some rate, right?

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    20. Sansa’s Knight:
      I think we can safely say that’s Drogon not viserion…. and with that info we now know it will be Dany who attacks kings landing not old frosty the snowman

      I don’t know the answer but Irish Thrones suggested more than one dragon could be in play so read into that what you will. I suspect this one is Drogon though.

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    21. Catspaw Assassin,

      I don’t know if they decay after being made into wights. In S1 when the dead Rangers were brought back to Castle Black, I think Samwell mentioned that their corpses didn’t ‘smell’. Since then I just assumed that the varying states of decay that we see the wights in represent the state they were in when the NK/WW raised them.

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    22. The only way to stop a corpse from being eligible for wight status is to burn them, yet Dany cannot be burned.

      I have no idea where I’m going with this, but sometimes I wonder if they have anything to do with each other at all.

      So far, the only people who cannot be killed by fire would be white walkers and Dany, right? Am I missing someone?

      Meh, I dunno. Food for thought.

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    23. Ten Bears: They subsist on a diet of ice water and wight bread.

      Lol. I’m still amazed at how wights march in slow motion but attack like manic hornets (WWZ style!). If only others could harvest and exploit that potential/kinetic energy imbalance for industrial/pragmatic purposes. Minimal input for maximal output! 🙂

      (Edit: I just realized I stated ‘others’…*facepalm*)

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    24. The dome (ceiling) reminds me of Dany’s vision in the house of the undying, when she looks up and the ceiling is burned…

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    25. Mr Derp,

      Someone told Euron Greyjoy in The Dragon and Wolf that the Wights can’t swim. A Wolf might need to drown a Dead Dragon in season 8.

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    26. Mr Derp,

      Well, the White Walkers are imprevious to ordinary fire… But can they withstand dragon fire, which is “magic” by definition? (As dragons are magic beasts.)

      I dunno. But the show has established that they can be killed by dragonglass and “dragonsteel” (whatever that is – it existed long before the rise of Valyria and before the Valyrians learned to produce Valyrian steel). Why not dragonfire, which is no ordinary fire?

      The show will do whatever is convenient to the story. GRRM, if he publishes more books, may worldbuild and explain the magic more.

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    27. That tweet from Momoa got my hopes up for sure. 🙂 Haven’t really been checking in lately but things seem to be picking up! Very curious about the Ice Dragon project too…

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    28. Mr Derp: I have no idea where I’m going with this, but sometimes I wonder if they have anything to do with each other at all.

      Ice and Fire metaphors, alignments and consequences are quite prevalent throughout this tale. Hmm. I wonder why…? 🙂

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    29. Mr Derp: So far, the only people who cannot be killed by fire would be white walkers and Dany, right? Am I missing someone?

      Someone can correct me and direct me to it, but I don’t recall ever reading that the Others/WW can’t be harmed or burned by intense direct flames such as dragon fire. I don’t think we know that for sure.
      My thoughts have been that viewers just started thinking that from watching the show as they’ve made it appear that they’re not afraid of regular fire (*) like the wights and that it diminishes when they walk near it. Perhaps that’s due to their extremely cold bodies or maybe it is some kind of magical shield of sorts.? They have of course shown that one needs to use Valyrian steel or dragonglass to kill them with physical force. I’m just not certain that one could just stand there being blasted by a dragon and not be harmed. Since there haven’t been many interactions in the books so far I don’t know if that can be answered.
      * In AGoT it is written that the Others hate fire and the sun. If they’re “fireproof” I’m not sure why they’d hate fire. *shrug*

      – Oh, I see talvikorppi commented on the same thing while I was writing and fiddling around. 😛

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    30. Someone needs to do a comparison chart of the dragon’s growth from egg to massive, vs Baby Sam’s growth from baby to ‘well hey, he’s actually a toddler now’.

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    31. IMHO, WW being impervious to regular fire but not so with dragon fire would quite neatly fall in line with steel/dragonsteel canon.

      Whoa 😮 I can already see Jon’s astonished face 😄

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    32. Pigeon: Someone needs to do a comparison chart of the dragon’s growth from egg to massive, vs Baby Sam’s growth from baby to ‘well hey, he’s actually a toddler now’.

      Craster babies mature very slowly until they are retrieved by their WW kin. No wonder the WW army is marching south…They’re gonna bring their little (half) brother home!

      Saving Private Sam?

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    33. Pigeon,

      Just look at Drogon in seasons 5, 6 and 7.

      With that growth rate they should have made Balerion´s skull bigger. The dude was the only Targ dragon who lived more than two centuries and still died of old age.

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    34. Mr Derp:

      I think what I’m getting at is that there might be more of a connection between Dany and the white walkers than we currently know about.

      Yeah, I can see what you’re coming at, and it’s a really interesting and intriguing idea. Thank you for giving me food for thought. I have to think about it a bit more. Usually, I’m kind of a straightforward type of lass, but open to interesting new ideas. Cheers.

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    35. I am still curious though if Daenerys will test Jon to see if fire will harm him when they find out he’s half Targaryen, or if we find out that he is “fireproof” in some other fashion. “He was no dragon. Fire cannot kill a dragon.” (dormant ability that was ‘awoken’ with his resurrection (“wake the dragon”))

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    36. Clob,

      Ha! I’d rather Dany not“test” Jon with fire.

      It just seems to harsh. I would like clarification regarding Jon and fire though. Like you, I think his fire imperviousness will be a awoked ability

      #woketarg

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    37. ramses: Ha! I’d rather not Dany “test” Jon with fire. It just seems to harsh.

      By test I didn’t mean anything drastic like tossing him on a raging pyre fire or anything. “Oh, oops… I guess he was no dragon either. My bad!” 😛 I’m thinking something like having him reach his hand toward and into a flame until he feels like it’s beginning to burn.

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    38. Clob,

      What was I to think? You quoted “A Golden Crown” 😝🤷‍♀️

      I did just have a thought tho…..

      Perhaps Jon’s resurrection made him impervious to specifically Viserion’s brand of dragon fire.

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    39. ramses,

      Yeah, I know. I didn’t specify 🙂

      If he could hold his arm in a fire without burning I’d say that would be really good proof of who he is in Daenerys’ eyes. I don’t think she’d doubt his lineage then, if she were to before that.

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    40. ramses: Perhaps Jon’s resurrection made him impervious to specifically Viserion’s brand of dragon fire.

      Now that’s an interesting scenario… Daenerys being fireproof and Jon being “ice breath proof.” I’d say “iceproof” but he did get pretty frozen in the lake.

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    41. Ten Bears:
      talvikorppi,

      “What about poor Rhaegal? Everybody forgets him/her!…
      —————-
      No, of course not. Aegon’s warrior princess sister will need a dragon to ride.

      But… if super ninja assassin warrior princess rides Rhaegal… Doesn’t her all time super favourite brother get a dragon to ride? Or is he always just riding pillion with his new girlfriend, just so that the super ninja assassin warrior princess gets one of her own? :scratches head:

      In the books, it’s very heavily hinted that the dragonlords of Valyria were able to ride and control dragons because of some blood magic, something then inherent in the Valyrian dragonlord blood. It was the reason for incestous marriages, to keep the blood pure, to keep that “gene” going.

      Arya has no dragonblood.

      But maybe she’s just so super super ninja assassin warrior princess badass that she’ll tame dragons, easier than dragonblood Dany, and put her half-Targ cousin Jon to shame, and demonstrate her unbeatable super ninja assassin princess badassery and save the world all by herself. Or something.

      Sigh.

      That said, Rhaegal interests me. Everybody’s talking about Drogon and Viserion, but Rhaegal might surprise us yet.

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    42. Clob,

      Targs burn like the rest of mortals. Even George said that Dany’s a special case and she is not 100% fireproof (she gets burned in ADWD).

      Jon got burned pretty badly when he saved old Mormont in the books.

      Aegon V and his son Duncan (amongst others) got burned in Summerhall.

      Arion Brightflame burned when he drank a wildfire cup to turn into a dragon.

      Rhaenyra Targaryen was eat by Sunfire. And we know that dragon roast their foot first.

      Princess Rhaenys Targaryen was burned beyond recognizion in the Dragon battle between Aegon II and Aemon Oneye against herself.

      In that same battle Aegon II got badly burned to the point his armor fused with his arm.

      And Targs corpses upon death were burned upon valyrian tradition.

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    43. talvikorppi,

      “Arya has no dragonblood.
      But maybe she’s just so super super ninja assassin warrior princess badass that she’ll tame dragons, easier than dragonblood Dany, and put her half-Targ cousin Jon to shame, and demonstrate her unbeatable super ninja assassin princess badassery and save the world all by herself. Or something.”

      _________________

      I knew you’d come around! 👸🏻

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    44. Frosteven,

      The walkers convert Crasters’ baby boys into Wights, and I think they DO grow up to be the Wights leading the army of the dead. So, presumably, Viserion would continue to grow too…’cause he was converted in the same way.

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    45. Anon,

      Nope. Viseryon was raised from corpse as a wigth, like the NK did with all those wildlings in Hardhome. Craster´s sons are converted while they are still LIVING in a sort of ceremony in an altar.

      Dead corpses=Wights

      Living babies+altar=WW

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    46. Eonwe,

      Semi-off-topic: Whatver happened to Rhaegar’s body? His chest got smashed in by Robert at the Ruby Ford, I think, in shallow water. Was his body retrieved and burned? Did it float away?

      Or as they might say in New Jersey, does Rhaegar sleep with the fishes?

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    47. Stoneheart,

      Yes! That’s what I was thinking, too!
      As to Jason Momoa.. I can only wish they find a way to write him back for the finale… but the only thing I can come up with would be a scene of Dany in the afterlife.. which I don’t want, either!
      Drogon Airlines looks dope.

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    48. Ten Bears,

      It is never discussed in either the books or show. ASOIAF WIKI says “According to a semi-canon source, Rhaegar’s body was cremated, as is traditional for fallen Targaryens.”

      But Robert hated the dude with a passion, so what they did to his body is a question that Martin could answer.

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    49. It’s kinda depressing that shooting is almost coming to an end, Irishthrones has posted some pics of what looks like the sets being dismantled. And mention of a wrap firework display in Titanic studios? ☹️

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    50. Edith: I thought the reason why they show the NK touching Viserion, the same way he did with Craster kids, was to indicate that he’s a white walker instead of a simple wight-dragon? Otherwise, the NK could just had done it the same way he did at Hardhome

      The babies are alive when he touches them, though. Viserion was already dead. So maybe he’s in-between: has more intelligence than a wight but is fixed in the physical state he was in when he was reanimated? Also wonder if Viserion is now part of the NK Net. The White Walkers help control a larger number of wights than I think the NK could do alone. Being tapped into a dragon may have some side benefit.

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    51. I am not sad, it means we have got through filming with no major spoilers leaking, who would have predicted that after S7? It also means we will get some sort of teaser sooner rather than later to keep us all excited.

      The only flip side is now we move into post production news will be scarce and won’t know if any supposed leaks are credible until we get a proper trailer which is unlikely to arrive until towards the end of the year.

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    52. Clob,

      I think that will definitely come into play, and I have a feeling we’ll find out that Jon is impervious to Viserion’s fire.

      Edit: Sorry just read a post further and see this was duly noted already lol

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    53. Ëonwë,

      Thanks for the reply. I noticed that (on the show at least), the Northerners made a big deal about returning a deceased’s remains, and the Starks entombed their lords’ remains in a crypt. (Ned made an exception for Lyanna, and I recall lots of speculation that perhaps Rhaegar’s harp, a wedding cloak, or some other evidence of Jon’s parentage and legitimacy was secreted in Lyanna’s tomb.)

      I didn’t know how the other highborn families and nobility dealt with the bodies of their loved ones. I was curious if Rhaegar’s body had been found, and maybe given a closed-casket funeral (after Robert was done bashing it). Cremation makes sense though.

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    54. Ten Bears,

      In the show the Targaryans (or their ashes) were supposed to be buried at the Great Sept, but not Rhaegar – I assume he would have been mentioned, when Joffrey was showing the Sept to Margeary, if he were. So there is some mystery. What if Ned buried him next to Lyanna? There were talks about awaikening a dragon in the Crypts.

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    55. Inga:

      In the show the Targaryans (or their ashes) were supposed to be buried at the Great Sept, but not Rhaegar – I assume he would have been mentioned, when Joffrey was showing the Sept to Margeary, if he were. So there is some mystery. What if Ned buried him next to Lyanna? There were talks about awaikening a dragon in the Crypts.

      Oo, that’s interesting!

      However, I struggle to see the logistics. Rhaegar is killed on the Trident and at this point Ned still thinks he’s a kidnapper and rapist. Ned races to KL, falls out with Robert over the murdered Targ babies, goes to Storm’s End to lift the siege, then to Tower of Joy (where he learns Rhaegar wasn’t a kidnapper and rapist), then he goes to Starfall to return Ser Arthur Dayne’s sword Dawn. Then he returns to Winterfell. We don’t know if he stopped along the way to attend Robert’s coronation but presumably he did because he and Robert were reconciled over their grief for Lyanna. Back in Winterfell, he buries Lyanna’s bones in the crypts – BTW, apparently all Starks are buried in the crypts but usually only Lords/Kings have statues. Bran alludes to this in one of his chapters.

      Now, given that at least a few weeks must’ve passed between Rhaegar’s death and Ned learning the truth about him and Lyanna (as per travel times alone), how could Ned retroactively get hold of Rhaegar’s remains to transport them to Winterfell? Especially when he was trying to hush hush the Lyanna-Rhaegar connection to protect Jon. So I think it unlikely. Not impossible, just unlikely.

      I used to think Rhaegar’s body was cremated near the Trident battlefield as per Targ custom, but we don’t actually know that.

      As to Joff showing Marg around the sept in the show, it is interesting that Rhaegar’s tomb is not mentioned but I don’t want to read too much into it.

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    56. Ten Bears:

      I didn’t know how the other highborn families and nobility dealt with the bodies of their loved ones. I was curious if Rhaegar’s body had been found, and maybe given a closed-casket funeral (after Robert was done bashing it). Cremation makes sense though.

      Well, we do know that the Tullys send theirs (or at least the lord) down the river in a boat that is burned. The show’s introduction of Edmure and the Blackfish was perfect! Not a word said but it told us all we needed to know about these two characters.

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    57. Ëonwë:

      It is never discussed in either the books or show. ASOIAF WIKI says “According to a semi-canon source, Rhaegar’s body was cremated, as is traditional for fallen Targaryens.”

      But Robert hated the dude with a passion, so what they did to his body is a question that Martin could answer.

      This actually reminds me of how Henry Tudor (who then became Henry VII) treated King Richard III’s body after the battle of Bosworth. His dead body was stripped naked, slung over a horse, apparently subjected to post mortem injuries and buried in a shallow grave in a car park… er, in a minor monastery. The grave was even too short so the body was squished, and the grave was not marked in any way. How modern historians and archeologists discovered the grave and how scientists used pathology and DNA to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that the body was indeed that of Richard III is a fascinating story.

      Interesting tidbit. The grave was underneath a parking space marked R, for a reserved parking spot. (R being short for Latin Rex = king.)

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    58. talvikorppi,

      Well, Ned was certainly bypassing the Trident on his way back to Witerfell, so picking the urn with ashes or simply dirt from the creamtion site was not a big deal. Or, if Rhaegar was simply buried, Howland Reed could have exhumated his body and put it into Lyanna’s coffin (I assume that it was Howland who brought Lyanna home, as Ned was travelling to Starfall etc.)

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    59. Inga:

      Well, Ned was certainly bypassing the Trident on his way back to Witerfell, so picking the urn with ashes or simply dirt from the creamtion site was not a big deal. Or, if Rhaegar was simply buried, Howland Reed could have exhumated his body and put it into Lyanna’s coffin (I assume that it was Howland who brought Lyanna home, as Ned was travelling to Starfall etc.)

      Well, we don’t actually know how Ned got back to Winterfell. He could’ve gone overland or by sea for all we know. And I’d think fiddling around with Rhaegar’s remains, either by Ned or by his trusted bannerman Howland Reed would’ve been extremely suspicious, and Ned wanted to clamp down any suspicions to protect Jon. And how would they find Rhaegar’s remains anyway? And in secret to boot?

      I’m not saying it’s impossible, just that I find it highly unlikely, however intriguing and attractive I find this idea. Granted, there’s a lot we don’t know, like where did Howland Reed go to from the Tower of Joy. We know from the books that he never went to Winterfell, though.

      Even if Rhaegar’s remains (ashes? bones?) were in Lyanna’s tomb, how would anybody know? No DNA testing in Westeros. So it’s back to the harp or some such.

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    60. talvikorppi,

      Well, we do know that the Tullys send theirs (or at least the lord) down the river in a boat that is burned. The show’s introduction of Edmure and the Blackfish was perfect! Not a word said but it told us all we needed to know about these two characters.

      One of my top scenes in the entire show! Wish Blackfish escaped with Brienne and Podrick….ah well…

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    61. Mr Derp:
      talvikorppi,

      I think what I’m getting at is that there might be more of a connection between Dany and the white walkers than we currently know about.

      Popping in late to the conversation just to say that I have long wondered about this. Both being impervious to fire (in the show, at least – I don’t recall The Others in the books being confronted with fire yet), and also the Targaryen’s distinctive white-blonde hair – typical of Old Valyria but very uncommon in Westeros … except perhaps for The Others. And then there are the things that Quaithe implies to Daenerys about the unavoidable pairing of light and shadow, west and east, etc.

      (My biggest disappointment about the book-to-show translations is the depiction of The Others/WW. Especially in the first season, when they looked more like the Morlocks from The Time Machine. Not at all how they were described in the books. They’ve become a bit less clunky in later seasons but they are not the intriguing elfin ice demons that I pictured when I read AGOT.)

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    62. Mr Derp,

      Gwidhiel,

      Also popping in even later, as I’m just catching up with this huge influx of articles after the Con. But you are correct, Mr Derp. There are certainly many similarities to the White Walkers and the Valyrians (and not only that they can’t be burned, which is actually only a Dany thing, which people above have said). They are described in very similar ways in the books (both very beautiful, and GRRM actually uses the same adjectives to describe them as well), have a shady background that can’t really be pinpointed, and both have special abilities. Some speculate that they are polar opposites, and that when the Children created the White Walkers, they also inadvertently created Valyrians (and broke the Arm of Dorne). A lot of this is also based on “balance in the world,” which is one of GRRM’s themes. To further speculate, some think that to destroy the White Walkers, the Valyrians must also be destroyed.

      Anyway, I’m not an expert on these connections but there are some really intriguing videos on them. I’d encourage you to look for some, as they’re always a fun watch that gets your head thinking! GrayArea is my go-to GoT speculator on weird connections like these.

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