Another season 3 cast member confirmed to return for Game of Thrones season 6

The sixth season of Game of Thrones has included the return of a few cast members from earlier seasons (follow this link and this one if you want to be spoiled in that regard). It seems like in season 6 the show is cleaning up some loose ends, and based on this piece of casting news, here’s one more. We received some information a while back pertaining to this character but were unable to 100% confirm his return at the time; now with the new info, we’re going to proceed with sharing!

Spoilers below the cut.

Paul Kaye

According to the news page of actors’ agency VivienneClore, their client Paul Kaye will be appearing on the show once again.

In the news item, his theatrical work is mentioned, and the agency goes on to say, “Paul has also been busy with television roles, you can catch him in the eagerly awaited Season 6 of Game of Thrones.”

With that, we can officially consider Thoros of Myr, the drunken red priest of the Brotherhood without Banners, to be making his return.

WotW reader PB brought the agency item to our attention. Thanks, PB!

!More spoilers! As for what we’ve heard about Kaye’s colorful character Thoros- last fall, we did hear from one anonymous source that Kaye had been filming. We also heard from another source that Kaye had been involved in some sort of hanging scene. We haven’t heard any more details about Stoneheart, so it’s not clear what the circumstances of the scenes are that Kaye is involved in. You may recall from the season six casting call, there are new outlaw characters in play, and it’s possible that Thoros might be connected to them.

Now the question is, are there any other Brotherhood members returning, like the archer Anguy? Is their often-dead leader Beric still walking around or is someone else leading the outlaws now?

358 responses

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    1. Welcome to the thread, have a Hodor.

      There you are sir… madam.

      Now, let speculation and polite disagreement ensue!

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    2. It looks like they are tying up the loose plot points, I hope we see Gentry again, mainly because Joe Dempsie is so hot 🙂

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    3. With the Freys returning, Blackfish returning, Edmure returning, Thoros returning, etc, I don’t see how we don’t get some variation of the

      Lady Stoneheart story. Even if it’s a big remix and some other character fulfills her role, it has to happen now.

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    4. Nothing would be funnier to me than LS actually showing up now, years past the point where most fans had given up on it.

      Mind you, there’s any number of other uses the show could make of Thoros.

      Urban Bran,

      We know the role Davis is playing. Besides which, there is exactly zero point to doing the LS story if Michelle Fairley isn’t playing her.

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    5. That’s pretty awesome, especially with what his coming back may imply. And where the hell is Gendry? He’s the only Baratheon left (on the show) so they gotta bring him back, right?

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    6. they will probably give this revenge story arc just to several characters, after all the actors said its the season of revenge, dont think they will now come up with Stoneheart.

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    7. Jon Snow will take Lady Stonehart’s storyline I think, Melisandre will pull the Mance/Rattleshirt trick with Jon’s body and will take him to the Brotherhood, then Beric will give his life for Jon’s. And maybe the armour Jon wears at Winterfell will be either Beric’s old Stark armour or another Brotherhood members Stark armour.

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    8. If they do any version of the Stoneheart story, I would imagine it will just be Beric in her place. She’s been dead far too long to be resurrected at this point… unless they tried to say she was resurrected off screen and has been leading them for awhile already. I think that would be pretty lame though. Probably would just be best to have Thoros and/or Beric leading the group.

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    9. Crazy news. Didn’t see this coming. My first reaction was Jons resurrection a la Beric. Then I thought what about LSH? They could be trolling us. But it is very interesting. I wish we could get confirmation on the hanging scene. That would narrow it down.

      If she’s coming, then I assume all the comments about a thing that they wanted to do in seasons 4 and 5 were about her. And if she is coming it will be episode 3. And if she’s coming it begs the question: is Jon getting rezzed before or after episode 3. I thought it needed to be before, but now I’m thinking it wouldn’t hurt to have a reminder of what Thoros has done w Beric.

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    10. Another resurrection besides Jon Snow’s would just diminish the impact of his comeback. Catelyn has been dead since season 3, how would they sell her absence for such a long time?

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    11. I think a very alive Sansa will become the leader of the brotherhood without banners, in effect taking stonehearts storyline just like she took over jeyne poole’s.

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    12. Oh, man. Not this again. Anyway, I’ll be prepared for the whining and drama when the season ends and a certain character doesn’t show up.

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    13. HYYYYYPPPPEEEEEEE

      If lady Stoneheart is coming this season, who would play her if Michelle Fairley isn’t? Also, I don’t want her to appear this season. Just me I guess.

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    14. No, I sure hope LSH doesn’t make it to show. They should just give some of her part to Sansa – and I am not even like a fan of Sansa I just don’t want LSH in the show after so much time.

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    15. Sean C.,

      Not really the majority of fans but instead those who are in denial and hate the LSH plot and we don’t really know if they are the majority or the vociferous minority. A great deal of fans had expectations S5 final episode. I am not saying that this piece of news means anything but if there is a season for the LSH plot to fit in this is the one. The way they organised the last two seasons made it clear that there was no place for LSH but now Riverlands is back again and most of the characters that are related to the LSH plot will be there. It almost cries LSH. So why being so negative?

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    16. This is great. The mysterious religious outlaws from the casting calls seemed to be a corruption of the brotherhood, so it does make sense to catch up with Thoros as well. I don’t think this means LSH will appear, of course, but I won’t deny it makes the speculation way easier and those who hope for her will be quite hyped now. I hope it doesn’t disappoint them too much if she doesn’t make an appearance.

      Personally, I think LSH’s role will be handled variously by Sansa, Arya, Brynden and the brotherhood itself.

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    17. Sean C.:
      Nothing would be funnier to me than LS actually showing up now, years past the point where most fans had given up on it.

      Mind you, there’s any number of other uses the show could make of Thoros.

      Urban Bran,

      I honestly don’t see LS appearing at all. But I LOVE that Thoros is back…that storyline felt so unfinished to me, and it was such a great group of actors! I can see them appearing at Riverrun, and going on a Frey-rampage. Beyond that? I’m super hyped!

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    18. Fredo,

      I agree. Everything is pointing in that direction. We had some foreshadowing in season 3 when Melisandre met Thoros and Beric. She was surprised of Thoros’s skills (and how he’s able to resurrect someone). Carice also told us in an interview that she’ll disappoint fans, so I think she won’t be the one to bring Jon back. She’ll bring his body to Thoros because she knows that he’s able to resurrect and she isn’t. That explains her absence this season (and Kit’s as well). She’ll take Jon to the Riverlands by episode 4. He’ll travel together with the BwB through the Riverlands and will be seen again during episode 9 when he (surprise surprise!) also takes part in the battle against the Boltons. Sansa will not believe her own eyes. And Ramsay will pee his pants.

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    19. Jarl Stark,

      It is not necessary to show her resurrection. She may as well have been resurrected without us seeing it. It can be that someone explains to someone else how it happened and we just see LSH in action…

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    20. I think he’s more likely linked with Jon. After all, he’s the only character in the show to successfully revive someone. LSH would of happened by now, plus, as someone else said. It would diminish the spectacle of Jon’s resurrection.

      I think they’ll give the LSH story to either Sansa or Jon.

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    21. Urban Bran:
      I keep coming back to this thought…but

      Good point. She’s so mutilated in the book, Michele Fairley doesn’t necessarily have to play the part. Plus her voice should sound more like T-Pain, not like a healthy woman.

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    22. We already knew BWB was coming back and the actor who plays Thoros was asked and he was teasing his return. Until you see some actual LSH news don’t get so much hyped because i can’t stand all the negativity when she will not come back.
      So far nothing confirms she is coming back and they have said in the past that she was cut from the show.
      When people here say they know where Jaime is in the end of the season, and at the same time they don’t know if LSH exists… how does this work?
      If she is not with Jaime then with who?

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    23. Never forget Irish Thrones stuck by their scoop from “trusted sources” even when dealing with scrutiny from other sites (including this one!)

      They’ve also clairified when “scoops” or leaks are from less trusted sources.

      They were never aggressive about it (They basically said that we should all be wary), but they continued to believe their “trusted sources” after the hoopla.

      Just saying..

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    24. Yelmer:
      Fredo,

      I agree. Everything is pointing in that direction. We had some foreshadowing in season 3 when Melisandre met Thoros and Beric. She was surprised of Thoros’s skills (and how he’s able to resurrect someone). Carice also told us in an interview that she’ll disappoint fans, so I think she won’t be the one to bring Jon back. She’ll bring his body to Thoros because she knows that he’s able to resurrect and she isn’t. That explains her absence this season (and Kit’s as well). She’ll take Jon to the Riverlands by episode 4. He’ll travel together with the BwB through the Riverlands and will be seen again during episode 9 when he (surprise surprise!) also takes part in the battle against the Boltons. Sansa will not believe her own eyes. And Ramsay will pee his pants.

      that could actually happen; but waiting so long for his return would be 🙁

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    25. I hope LSH do not appear. It was crazy enough in the books, thank you very much. At least in the book she was needed in the flow of plotlines. If they could merge Jeyne Poole with Sansa and Victarion with Asha, they could also merge LSH with Beric/Thoros/Blackfish/Sansa. Blackfish would know about Jaime and Brienne’s deal with Catelyn, so he can name Jaime ‘Oathbreaker’ and ask Brienne/Jaime to run errands of vengeance. Edmure and Blackfish (possibly Sansa , Arya or Littlefinger to avenge Catelyn) would be enough to initiate a Red Wedding 2.0. Also, we are almost certain Jon and the Hound will be returning to life, so one more character returning to life will weaken the story. Imagine “Season 6 – Return of the Dead”

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    26. Damn, I was hoping this would be about Gendry, but I’ll certainly enjoy seeing Thoros, again.

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    27. Yelmer,

      How does this make sense at all? How will she travel under Ramsays nose alone (or even with a handful other people) with Jons corpse all the way to RLs just for Thoros doing Jon’s resurrection?

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    28. Luka Nieto,

      I agree. I just think that with Brienne destined to meet Sansa early in the season that it will be Sansa who’ll command her to bring her Jaime. I mean, why would Brienne turn up at RR if Sansa hadn’t commanded her to locate Jaime?

      The Brotherhood was a loose plot that needed tying up anyway, and I’m not at all surprised by this news given the fact we knew there was an outlaw band this season. If LSH is in, this is the time to introduce her, but unless she has a specific purpose that we don’t know about I don’t think we particularly need her.

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    29. For specifically the show I don’t think they would have to do anything if they don’t want to with the BwB as far as I’m concerned. What I mean is that what little they’ve had of them doesn’t leave that big of a loose end. Non-readers would probably be in large majority for seeing Gendry over any of the BwB.

      With so many other things they’re already tackling I have to assume that they have a very good reason for inserting them back into the mix.

      No, it may not mean LSH, but GRRM must take that storyline somewhere that we don’t know about and the BWB’s involvement could be necessary beyond LSH.

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    30. “Make no mistake, the dead are coming.”

      Be still my beating (Stone) heart. This is fantastic news. I won’t let myself get TOO excited, because they could always go in a different direction with the story, but with Thoros confirmed and Brienne and Pod in the Riverlands confirmed, this might actually freaking happen.

      Frankly, with all the spec on Jon Snow, the casual viewer isn’t even thinking about the return of LSH or “The Gravedigger” so these could still be very welcome surprises for the general audience.

      I feel like I read something online about some girl dressed as LSH in Europe somewhere and when she bemoaned the lack of her in the show, D&D said something akin to “Wait until S6” just like they said when Kit talked about wanting to warg Ghost.

      Could I *be* any more excited about Season 6? No. The answer is no. 😀

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    31. We know Sansa will be rescued by Brienne and that Brienne will end up in the Riverlands. It’s likely Sansa goes with her. It’s worth noting Sophie was sighted around the Riverlands set.

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    32. Ghostmaker:
      We know Sansa will be rescued by Brienne and that Brienne will end up in the Riverlands. It’s likely Sansa goes with her. It’s worth noting Sophie was sighted around the Riverlands setting.

      Huh? When was Sophie ever sighted on the Riverlands set? I must have missed that.

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    33. Mitch,

      Actually I stand by what I said. IrishThrones claimed that Stoneheart was going to be commanding an army, and a very well-placed source pretty much laughed at that. So. Yeah.

      But I also said straight up at the the time that I didn’t ask the source if we’d be getting LSH at all, because I didn’t particularly want to know.

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    34. Hell, yeah!
      Let’s remind the audience that hot chicks aren’t the only ones who can serve the Lord of Ligh.

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    35. Ghostmaker:
      Another resurrection besides Jon Snow’s would just diminish the impact of his comeback.

      People keep saying this, but still thought it was awesome when the Night’s King rezzed hundreds of dead at the end of Hardhome. It’s already not that unusual for death to be less than final in Planetos: Besides all the thousands of wights, there’s Beric who was rezzed 6 times and Ser Robert Strong. Necromancy is an existing (if ethically dicey) field of study. So why would Cat’s return be any cheesier than any other character’s (presuming that it happened within a few days of her murder)?

      I’m not going to lose any sleep over whether LSH will be in the show or not, but I still can’t think of a better ultimate resolution to Arya’s Faceless arc than giving the Gift of Mercy to her mother. The author said that LSH still has a purpose in the books besides hanging Freys, and my money is on its being laying Arya’s hunger for vengeance to rest.

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    36. Yelmer,
      Yelmer,

      Has the show established one way or another glamouring as a practice? We also know already that Mel is weak, her magical powers have diminished and she is feeling the cold how will she be able to glamour a dead body all the way to RLs? She might as well have a mobile phone with camera to explain all the details to Beric and tell him what he has to do… I mean I am sorry if I had to choose between this scenario and LSH I prefer the second.

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    37. Clob,

      Agreed. They didn’t HAVE to bring the brotherhood back, at least for anything we’ve read in the books so far. However, they may be responsible for something that makes it worth their return:

      That is, a retaliation to the Red Wedding, orchestrated by the Blackfish and the Brotherhood. It will be slightly different in the books, I’m sure (it’s not like it’s confirmed or anything, but there are multiple theories on this event), but I think it will appear in the show too —in this season, judging by the second trailer, in which we see Walder Frey and the Lannisters celebrating at the Twins.

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    38. I don’t understand why anyone wants LSH. The spoilers claim BWB will be corrupted and hated by smallfolk. “They’re now extorting the poor and vulnerable” casting call. Do you really want Catelyn Stark to turn into a hated character? I am so happy this will not come in the show, i don’t believe in LSH and BWB will do what they have to do with Jaime and Brienne without her. It’s a very good choice. People can hate BWB but Cately Tully into a monster will be too much for the Stark tv fans.
      No Sansa or Jon will not lead the corrupted and using religion to terrorize people as well….

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    39. I want Stoneheart for one reason. It’s better storytelling and resonance to have

      Michelle Fairley – undead visage or not

      in a dynamic with Nicolaj and Gwendoline.

      People are underestimating the emotionality on the tv show of that

      trio

      None of the pretenders or substitutes

      Sansa? Arya? FUCK OFF!

      will cut it. It will be weaker storytelling of a “similar” scenario. They can do it fine, it will just be weaker storytelling. I do think this is leading to a destruction of the Freys

      Red Wedding 2.0?

      But will be so emotionally monumental in terms of Jaime and Brienne’s story.

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    40. dothrakian raven,

      I do prefer the second one too, though. I would love to see LSH. But I’m afraid it’s too late to introduce her. I don’t think she would make a lot of sense at this point in the series. But I do think that her storyline might be given to another more prominent character, like Jon or Sansa. We will see. I hope you’re right ;-).

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    41. Laura: I feel like I read something online about some girl dressed as LSH in Europe somewhere and when she bemoaned the lack of her in the show, D&D said something akin to “Wait until S6” just like they said when Kit talked about wanting to warg Ghost.

      I question that recollection, sorry. Had D and/or D made that comment at any time I would think that would have been plastered everywhere and brought up all the time. I don’t remember seeing any of that.

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    42. Ahh for a moment when i saw the headline i thought about gendry and got exited.Just please not the lsh plotline i hated it in the books and it would be even more ridiculous in the show.I think they could do the riverlands plotline without her so i’m still hopeful she won’t be included.

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    43. I’m going to take a wild guess and say that the Blackfish will take on the Lady Stoneheart role and get revenge on the Freys (with certain other characters who are supposed to be back in the Riverlands based on their book plots). It makes sense geographically and he would also have a reason to do it (Red Wedding). I don’t know where Edmure fits into all of this (maybe he dies, maybe not). Either way, goodbye Walder Frey.

      Having Mel ride over to the Riverlands with JS’s decomposing corpse is ridiculous. The ride would take weeks and the Boltons have Moat Cailin, so you’d have to go around it (making the journey even longer).

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    44. Laura,

      Wasn’t it later confirmed that there is another set in that area, so that this information does not mean that she shot scenes for the Riverlands storyline? Besides there wer other spoilers that

      confirmed that Sansa will be present at the Battle for Winterfell

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    45. The waif:
      I think a very alive Sansa will become the leader of the brotherhood without banners, in effect taking stonehearts storyline just like she took over jeyne poole’s.

      Sansa’s story this season is in the North, and in any event, why would the BWB make a teenage girl they’ve never met before who has no connection to their cause their leader?

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    46. Only time will tell if this means LS will turn up. I’m still inclined to think she won’t, and I’ll believe otherwise when I see it (I’ve made the indifference I feel towards the character very clear). I agree with Luka Nieto that the relevant aspects of her storyline from TWOW can be handled by other characters (Sansa, Arya, the Blackfish, etc.)

      That being said, if the character is ever going to come back, this is the time – when she has something relevant to do, and after Jon’s resurrection (so that the power of that return isn’t diluted).

      Irrespective of that, however, I’m very happy to see Paul Kaye return. He was so great as Thoros in Season 3. I didn’t mention it on the Memory Lane post for “The Climb”, but I love his story about his many failings as a priest and how he inadvertently resurrected Beric. “I knelt beside his cold body and said the words. Not because I believed them, but because he was my friend. And he was dead. And they were the only words I knew. And for the first time in my life, the Lord replied.” It’s a great speech, and Kaye delivers it wonderfully.

      Hopefully Thoros will still be a happy drunk, though if the Brotherhood’s taken a dark turn, his mood may have as well.

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    47. Michelle Fairley could have slipped on set quickly for a few scenes. It’s not like we are privy to all the filming.

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    48. Maggie:
      I don’t understand why anyone wants LSH. The spoilers claim BWB will be corrupted and hated by smallfolk. Do you really want Catelyn Stark to turn into a hated character? I am so happy this will not come in the show, i don’t believe in LSH and BWB will do what they have to do with Jaime and Brienne without her. It’s a very good choice. People can hate BWB but Cately Tully into a monster will be too much for the Stark tv fans.
      No Sansa or Jon will not lead the corrupted and using religion to terrorize people as well….

      The whole point of LSH is that she’s not who she was. She is the manifestation of resurrection gone wrong, and as I have said before, might be presented as a counterpoint to Jon’s resurrection.

      Granted, I really, really appreciate the Frey-killing/vengeance aspect of LSH in general, because I love the Starks. But I do also understand that the issues surrounding her are complex. Last we saw her, she was very nearly killing beloved Brienne. No one wants that (well, actually I am sure some people do). I am also one who believes that Arya may have to kill LSH or at the very least, be confronted by this beast who was her mother. I think there are lots of rich areas to mine for story there. I don’t think bringing her back sullies Jon’s story at all. He is the hero – she is a mistake, a monster. I personally don’t get the people who whine about bringing her back. There’s very few characters like her in the book. Her closest analogue is Zombie Mountain but there are still some pretty big differences between the two.

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    49. Sue the Fury:
      Mitch,

      Actually I stand by what I said. IrishThrones claimed that Stoneheart was going to be commanding an army, and a very well-placed source pretty much laughed at that. So. Yeah.

      But I also said straight up at the the time that I didn’t ask the source if we’d be getting LSH at all, because I didn’t particularly want to know.

      Yeah, but “Army” could mean anything. The Outlaw brotherhood could be percieved as a little militia in the woods 😉

      But seriously, there are other storytelling “possibilities”. Jaime’s “Siege army” being taken over or maybe even “given over” to a certain Frey cause….

      Oh!

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    50. Flayed Potatoes: ’m going to take a wild guess and say that the Blackfish will take on the Lady Stoneheart role and get revenge on the Freys (with certain other characters who are supposed to be back in the Riverlands based on their book plots). It makes sense geographically and he would also have a reason to do it (Red Wedding).

      I expect Brynden will also be involved in this massacre in the books, along with obviously LSH and the brotherhood, so it’s not that much of a change.

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    51. If LSH doesn’t appear, I hope we don’t experience the tedious rants from people claiming that D&D are trolling us. The Brotherhood have been brought back for a reason, and the writers wouldn’t bring them back just to troll the audience; they have been brought back for a specific reason (which may or may not be connected to LSH).

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    52. I still think anything’s possible when it comes to this Kaye thing. People want to believe in LSH and part of me does too, but it feels like it’s been too long. He could just be hanging out with this new outlaw band and playing some other role. I’d rather be cautious in my guesses so I’m pleasantly surprised, rather than let down.

      Mitch,
      No one would call the Brotherhood’s remnants an army. An army is an army, a huge group of armed soldiers. Not a ragtag band of outlaws.

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    53. The pieces are starting to fit together now, but the jigsaw is still missing some key pieces.

      There are rumours that Melisandre uses ‘glamour’ in some way at the end of Episode 1. Perhaps that fits in with the idea of Thoros, and even LSH, being involved in the Jon Snow resurrection? In other words, Melisandre doesn’t do it, but instead finds a way to keep Jon from the funeral pyre while she goes to look for Thoros. Not sure how this would all work in practice, exactly, but there has to be some explanation for why Jon Snow isn’t just burned pretty much right away – either he is resurrected straight away, which seems unlikely based on Episode 1 rumours; or he is burned and this is how he gets resurrected, which also seems unlikely at this stage; or he’s not burned, because Melisandre uses magic to make someone else (Thorne???) look like Jon Snow’s body. So they all think they’re watching Jon Snow’s funeral, but Jon is in the ice cells and it’s Alliser Thorne on the pyre? I know, I’m reaching, and maybe the rumour about the ‘glamour’ is just fake anyway, but I’ve always liked the idea of LSH’s story ending with her giving the kiss of life to Jon Snow….

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    54. Luka Nieto,
      Luka, agree. In the books, having LSH, instead of Beric, lead the BWB had changed the character of the group … certain others would view them as outlaws …

      I always wondered if the fact that Beric died resurrecting LSH would play a role in any future resurrections, but that’s a book thought not one for the show, or at least i don’t think so

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    55. It seems like the only way they could introduce LSH this late is initially through a greenseer vision or flashback. They do have that available to them. The BwB have not been seen on the show since s3e7, so LSH having been with them since then isn’t out of the question. It has to still be highly unlikely though.

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    56. Sue the Fury:
      I still think anything’s possible when it comes to this Kaye thing. People want to believe in LSH and part of me does too, but it feels like it’s been too long. He could just be hanging out with this new outlaw band and playing some other role. I’d rather be cautious in my guesses so I’m pleasantly surprised, rather than let down.

      Mitch,
      No one would call the Brotherhood’s remnants an army.An army is an army, a huge group of armed soldiers. Not a ragtag band of outlaws.

      Um, yeah, that’s why a put a “blinkie” after writing that 🙂

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    57. It just seems wild to me that this particular actress could have been travelling and filming on set with no one seeing her and talking about it. Then again there are plenty of ways that can do some variation of that story without her or even without that character at all.

      Regardless, I’m excited to see Thoros back in the fold and how they’ll use him.

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    58. Laura: The whole point of LSH is that she’s not who she was. She is the manifestation of resurrection gone wrong, and as I have said before, might be presented as a counterpoint to Jon’s resurrection.

      I agree but as we read in the casting call BWB will be awful people, extorting the poor and vulnerable. People actually want to see a Stark killing innocent people as well? Ok let’s say innocent Freys pay for the innocent Northern men, but Catelyn, Sansa or any Stark can become such a big monster that because of their own suffering poor people will have to suffer? This sounds awful scenario….i will happy if we remember Catelyn as good person.
      I can’t see how people wwill enjoy a Stark revenge if a Stark lead thieves and rapists who terrorize using religio,.

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    59. Mitch,

      The problem with Irish Thrones is that it appeared as if they just published every single rumour they heard without checking vigorously to confirm the accuracy.

      One of their rumours, for example, was that Coldhands will appear with Bran. I would be truly amazed if that happened as the perfect time to introduce him was a long time ago.

      There were some other bizarre rumours as well. They’re just a bit too unreliable for me, whereas I trust WotW because they have been confirmed to be right time and time again. Who knows, if a lot of the stuff that Irish Thrones claims will happen actually does happen I expect I will take them a bit more seriously if they report on Season 7, but until then, I don’t think so…

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    60. Clob,

      In the books, we don’t see LSH get resurrected. We only find out about it later, through Thoros telling the story, so they could basically do the same thing.

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    61. Clob: I question that recollection, sorry.Had D and/or D made that comment at any time I would think that would have been plastered everywhere and brought up all the time. I don’t remember seeing any of that.

      I can’t find where I read the story but it was about the girl in this picture with D&D : http://redsonja1313.deviantart.com/art/Lady-Stoneheart-479276950
      Granted, it could have been totally made up and I’m just a gullible sub-human. 😉

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    62. Mitch,

      RW 2.0 ? since GRRM is using historical references to construct his plots i think the frey storyline might end (at least in the books) with LSH entering and igniting the twins, after the BwB have barred the gates, taking everybody to hell like Gudrun/Kriemhild did to Attila in the Nibelungenlied (there she also forced Attila to eat his sons before (this part equals GRRM story of the Rat Cook) . Maybe BookArya looking for revenge at the Twins will give her mother “Mercy” then…

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    63. Season 6 will make Season 5 looks terribly uneventful in comparaison it seems. They’re about to shoot their load and it’s going to be glorious.

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    64. It’s funny, I was JUST thinking about how its a shame they’re casting outlaws but leaving him out, he did a fantastic job! I hope we get to see him lament to Brienne what the Brotherhood has become. And if LS isn’t with him, we can officially count him out.

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    65. Bob Warren:
      Knight of the Walkers,

      Then again, there is someone in the trailer who looks a bit like Coldhands…..not that it is, but we can’t rule it out yet.

      I’ve never believed Coldhands would appear, but that mystery person who seems to save Meera and Bran from a wight is certainly interesting. Could be Coldhands, could be Benjen… If it wasn’t because the sizes don’t seem to fit, I would say it’s more likely it’s a child of the forest or Hodor (warged by Bran).

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    66. dothrakian raven:
      Sean C.,

      Not really the majority of fans but instead those who are in denial and hate the LSH plot and we don’t really know if they are the majority or the vociferous minority. A great deal of fans had expectations S5 final episode. I am not saying that this piece of news means anything but if there is a season for the LSH plot to fit in this is the one. The way they organised the last two seasons made it clear that there was no place for LSH but now Riverlands is back again and most of the characters that are related to the LSH plot will be there. It almost cries LSH. So why being so negative?

      LSH hate has become the official badge of the ASOIAF Book Criticism Club, to the point of irrationality. It has particularly infected a tribe on this site.

      LSH clearly has a critical role to play in the Jamie/Brienne arc, and one way or the other, her story will entangle with that of at least one of her daughters in the end, probably to some tragic consequence. These are story-critical elements, and while D&D could in principle make something up to replace it, why would they?

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    67. Luka Nieto: I expect Brynden will also be involved in this massacre in the books, along with obviously LSH and the brotherhood, so it’s not that much of a change.

      Exactly. Throw in Brienne and Pod and you have a party. I assume they will sneak in the castle during that Frey-Lannister celebration we saw in the second trailer and attack them Red Wedding style (sort of). It would make for a great finale. If he shows up, Beric can die during the attack to match his character in the books (both are dead but in different circumstances), or at any point during the season. Maybe someone chops off his head.

      Filming spoilers:

      The filming spoilers also said Arya would be in the Riverlands at the end of the season, so I expect her to somehow end up in there with the theater troupe. Were there any wolves mentioned in the WOTW news? I’d be happy even with only Nymeria showing up lol. I don’t know how Jaime and Bronn fit into all of this. Maybe we’ll get a cliffhanger, or they’re taken prisoners.

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    68. Chad Brick:
      why would they?

      Because she’s a terrible character, whose only purpose (so far at least) was to deliver a M. Night Shyamalan-esque twist in Storm of Swords, undermining the impact of the Red Wedding in the process. I think the story is better without her, but that’s just my opinion.

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    69. Yelmer,

      I can chill myself when it comes to this plot until it happens if it ever happens. Season 6 has so much to offer other than this. It is not of great importance unless they find another plausible way to create drama out of Brienne and Jaimie and the Oath plot without Un-Cat. I tried to toy with other options, someone else taking over her role but it seems that none of them is as powerful as the LSh scenario. But as you said it will be exciting to see what happens in the end. The season is almost here and the hype everywhere 🙂

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    70. Given Mr. Dormer’s appearance at the premiere last year I think it’s safe to say he’s at least on good terms with the show… even if he doesn’t watch it lol

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    71. Bob Warren:
      Clob,

      In the books, we don’t see LSH get resurrected. We only find out about it later, through Thoros telling the story, so they could basically do the same thing.

      Correct.

      That and a bit of foreshadow through Arya/Nymeria

      They could just as easily just tell the story, true.

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    72. Flayed Potatoes: If he shows up, Beric can die during the attack to match his character in the books (both are dead but in different circumstances)

      I expect Beric to be dead by the time we reunite with the Brotherhood. With him still alive, I don’t see the Brotherhood corruping itself as the casting calls described. Can you envision Beric extorting the poor and vulnerable of the countryside?

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    73. Chad Brick:

      You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.

      Listen, I think it’s safe to say that if LSH appears in the show, the show won’t be ruined and if LSH doesn’t appear in the show, the show won’t be ruined. I love how all the anti-LSH people always talk about us pro-LSHers like *we’re* the unhinged ones. Look at your life. Look at your choices. 😛

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    74. Luka Nieto,

      There’s great irony in someone who conducts himself the way this guy does referring to anyone else as trash.

      Hopefully, the mods will deal with him forthwith (especially when one adds this crap to the things he said yesterday to Deesensfan on the Emilia Clarke thread).

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    75. Laura: I love how all the anti-LSH people always talk about us pro-LSHers like *we’re* the unhinged ones. Look at your life. Look at your choices.

      Eh, dunno about you, but looking at people desperately grasping for straws and taking anything as “PROOF” and “CONFIRMED” and then crying and stomping their feet when D&D don’t make their beloved character appear…yes, it makes them look unhinged.

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    76. Luka Nieto: I expect Beric to be dead by the time we reunite with the Brotherhood. With him still alive, I don’t see the Brotherhood corruping itself as the casting calls described. Can you envision Beric extorting the poor and vulnerable of the countryside?

      Good point. I don’t care if he lives or dies, so I’m ok with this.

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    77. Morgoth: Eh, dunno about you, but looking at people desperately grasping for straws and taking anything as “PROOF” and “CONFIRMED” and then cryingand stomping their feet when D&D don’t make their beloved character appear…yes, it makes them look unhinged.

      Hmm, well I have only been on one site, this one, to discuss Game of Thrones and I’ve yet to see anyone act like that so you must be on other sites where they do that.¯_(ツ)_/¯

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    78. Laura,

      I can’t speak for anyone else, but when I think of pro-LSHer’s, I think of a few people who do seem to be truly unhinged. A few folks have been so insane about it since the end of season 4, unfortunately and unfairly to those who just hope to see her, but don’t go off the deep-end about it, those crazy ones are the ones who stand out.

      I think your observation about the show not being ruined whether she appears, or not, is the perfect way of looking at it.

      For me (and riffing on, I believe it’s JCDavis’s line, and if it’s someone else’s and I’m attributing it incorrectly, my apologies), she’d be best relegated to a line of Game of Thrones Pez Dispensers. 🙂

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    79. dothrakian raven:
      Luka Nieto,

      Well they didn’t depict him exactly as a saint. He sold Gentry for gold and gold can corrupt people.

      Good point. But the whole point of them was to protect the poor and vulnerable from the warring Lords, wasn’t it? I know gold corrupts, but Lord Beric seemed kind of inflexible in his mission; even if he sometimes had to bend morality to achieve it, would he actually go completely against the mission statement of the Brotherhood?

      Also, there’s the fact the casting calls described a new leader for this corrupted outlaw band, a so-called Lachlan (possibly a fake name, who knows). I can’t see Lord Beric relinquishing his position as leader of this band.

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    80. Another thing I’ve been predicting while everyone has been focused on Mel…

      Thoros of Myr will resurrect Jon Snow.

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    81. Laura:
      Granted, it could have been totally made up and I’m just a gullible sub-human.

      Well you’re a bit gullible about the whole Jon Snow / Ghost thing. No-one said he was going to warg into Ghost, there was an audience question about which other characters the actors would like to play, Harrington says a warg so he could “put himself” in a wolf and D&D make a joke about putting himself, as in having sex with a wolf. That’s all there was to that.

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    82. Holy shit, I’m not a fan of LSH, but you seriously need to think before you write… I’m not sensitive to language, but do you really think calling someone “pretty much sub human trash” is okey, just because they happend to like a fictional character that you don’t?

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    83. The Return of :
      – Jon Snow
      – LSH
      – The Hound
      – Blackfish
      – Edmure
      – Thoros

      Maybe too many returning for a season ?

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    84. GeekFurious,

      So according to you Mell will carry a decomposing body with her through Bolton territory and all the way down to the Riverlands for most of the season?

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    85. So Thoros of Myr is is coming back – That’s good news 😉

      As for LSH perhaps making an appearance, I don’t give a flying fuck! However, if she does (and its Michelle Fairley playing the part) it will break the Internet! The best kept secret ever for GoT fans. I believe Michelle did turn up at the Belfast studios during the making of Season 6? Who knows whether that was to perform or just as a social visit.

      Westeros.org would probably go into ‘Melt Down’ along with Elio and Linda if this is true LOL 😀

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    86. I don’t care about LSH one way or another but the return of Thoros makes me happy. Paul Kaye was wonderful in this role. I’ve been hoping for this news for quite awhile.

      Excited for the Riverlands story line. Everyone is back where they should be.

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    87. Flayed Potatoes:
      GeekFurious,

      So according to you Mell will carry a decomposing body with her through Bolton territory and all the way down to the Riverlands for most of the season?

      Maybe Thoros has a fire vision that sends him north to the Wall. Mel tries and fails to bring back Jon but next day Thoros shows up.

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    88. For those few who are interested in my speculative summary, this news has only given detail to something I already speculated on: I thought Brienne and Pod would clash with the outlaws from the casting call, and that Brynden would ally with them for a sort of Red Wedding 2.0, but now there is more detail —it is indeed the Brotherhood, and Thoros is still there. Take a look at the whole text if you want, or I’ll just copy & paste the relevant part here:

      Episode 3: Safe in Castle Black, Sansa decides to send Brienne after Jaime, once she learns of their bond. […] Brienne is reluctant, but […] the discussion is over when Brienne is reminded of her oaths to Catelyn and Sansa. […]

      Episodes 4 to 7: On the way out of the North, Brienne and Podrick learn Jaime is laying siege to Riverrun. Brienne and Pod clash with what’s left of the Brotherhood Without Banners. Their original leader Lord Beric is long gone, as he died permanently when Thoros couldn’t resurrect him one last time, and so the outlaws have turned on the land they swore to protect: Though they still punish the Frey and Lannister war criminals, they also use R’hllor’s name to justify their extortion of the poor and vulnerable of the countryside. Thoros remains in the Brotherhood, though he isn’t happy about its moral decay, and he strives to take control and steer it in the right direction. Brienne and Pod are helped out of this tricky situation. Meribald, a former warrior turned septon, guides them to the safety of his pacifist cult’s sept. The grizzled priest lectures them on the nature of “broken men” —outlaws who, while dangerous, should still be pitied. It is revealed that in the sept now lives an injured yet reformed Sandor Clegane. Though Brienne is hostile at first, she lets Sandor go free when she concludes he is a broken man who is piecing himself back together.

      Brienne and Podrick reach Riverrun, much to Jaime’s surprise. Though the reunion between Jaime and Brienne and Podrick and Bronn is warm at first, it turns sour when Brienne tells Jaime about the half-truth that brings her to him: she has found Sansa, who was forcibly married into the Boltons, yet she escaped and hid and is now in need of protection. Jaime is unwilling to abandon the siege, despite Brienne’s reminder of his oath —which is put in evidence by Oathkeeper, the aptly-named sword he gave her to save the Stark girls. After Jaime tries to convince the Blackfish to give up, Brienne also reaches out to Brynden, informing him of Sansa’s true circumstances and of the resurgence of the Starks. This emboldens him and, after he tells her something we are not privy to, the Blackfish escapes in the night. With the siege apparently done, though under somewhat enigmatic circumstances, Jaime resolves to honor his oath and travel north with Brienne and Pod. And away they all go —except for Bronn, who is only interested in his reward and stays behind, after a bittersweet parting, his story presumably over for good.

      Episode 10: Brienne, Pod and Jaime arrive near Winterfell after the so-called Battle of the Bastards. Jaime expected to find the Boltons in Winterfell and Sansa Stark helpless and in hiding nearby, so he is confused to find her in power. Though Brienne tries to explain she had to keep her oath to Sansa, Jaime feels betrayed. She now understands what he once told her about the futility of keeping contradicting oaths. She reveals the Blackfish told her he had a plan to strike back at the Freys. Climactically, Brienne decides to defend Jaime. Brienne may sacrifice herself as well as her oaths, but Jaime survives and flees south so that he can play his part in Cersei’s ultimate demise.

      Arya arrives in the Riverlands, where she has the opportunity to put her newfound abilities to good use —not only her martial arts and assassination skills, but also her warging, once she joyously reunites with Nymeria and her wolfpack. Together, they begin hunting for Freys, who, having just taken Riverrun, invite their Lannister allies to the Twins, where Lord Walder celebrates their now uncontested rule over the Riverlands. The Blackfish and Tully men take this opportunity to wreak vengeance on them with a retaliatory Red Wedding, orchestrated with the help of the Brotherhood (led by Thoros at long last), as well as Arya, Nymeria and her wolfpack. In the aftermath of the bloody, blazing massacre, Lord Edmure is freed, and so the Stark-loyalist Tullys rule the Riverlands again. Climactically, Arya kills Walder Frey.

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    89. When GRRM answered an interview about which characters he regretted not being in the series, LSH was one of those. He wouldn’t have given this answer if he knew she was back, and I doubt he would have been unaware of her fate in the series.

      Somehow I’d like to see her in the series (although I don’t really care, what matters if whether it works on screen), but with GRRM’s interview I’d be very surprised to see that happen.

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    90. I hope D6D will find a way to introduce her organically to the show. I have some ideas, but I hope they have better.

      It is a shame that Sue refused to ask about LSH. I understand her decision, but she already spoiled E9 of S6. Spoiling this is not that big deal.

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    91. Luka Nieto,

      I don’t think so. I think there is no time for BF to form any kind of alliance with BwB because he will be in the Riverrun in E7 and E8.

      I think Brienne and BF will escape together in E8, but they will be captured by BwB and LSH.

      Jaime and the Freys will celebrate their victory at the Twins.

      Brienne will be forced to bring Jaime to LSH. Then they will use Jaime to infiltrate the Twins and then he will have RW 2.0.

      I think something similar will happen in the books.

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    92. Great news!

      Sue, is there any other unconfirmed info like that? Only a week left, so might become irrelevant later.

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    93. Florian:
      I remember last year when season finale title was revealed …
      Mother Mercy …
      And no LSH

      No, Mother’s Mercy. Which many of us assumed correctly referred to Cersei asking for the Mother’s mercy; begging to the High Sparrow, effectively, exactly as she did in the books, using those words. “Mother Mercy” would have been another thing entirely, or going further “Mother Merciless”. That would have pointed to LSH. “Mother’s Mercy” didn’t, really.

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    94. Luka Nieto,

      Me neither. I mean the whole thing about BWB was the bond between Thoros and Beric and it seems that without Beric Thoros wouldn’t be able to take charge of the band. I got the impression that Thoros was somehow dependent on Beric. So my guess is that Beric is still in charge and my expectation is to see the two together.

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    95. mau,

      Yeah, that’s what I expect in the books, so it could happen like that in the show. If I believed LSH was going to appear in season six, I’d plot out this storyline exactly as you described. But… I don’t think LSH is happening, so I adapted around it.

      dothrakian raven: So my guess is that Beric is still in charge and my expectation is to see the two together.

      But… the casting calls confirm the outlaws have a new leader…

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    96. Does anybody have any ideas what the Hound/Sandor would be doing after comeback? I’ve been thinking and it’d be cool if he was the reason Littlefinger looked scared in the trailer.

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    97. mau:
      Flayed Potatoes,

      But Blackfis will be in Riverrun in E7 and E8.

      No, I think LSH will appear this season. Hanging scene convinced me.

      LSH’s revenge plot can be given to other characters: Blackfish in the Riverlands, Sansa and Jon in the North. She’s not that crucial. Blackfish could have made an alliance with Thoros off screen (since he was gone for so many seasons, he had to have done something during all that time).

      I don’t know what hanging scene you’re talking about. The one with Brienne, Jaime and the Stark bannermen?

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    98. My new take is that Mel will sacrifice herself to save Jon. There are no shots of her in trailers post the castle black events.

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    99. mau:
      Luka Nieto,

      But D&D never cut a character and left everything exactly the same. What is the point of cutting her then?

      What do you mean? When they cut something, they write around it. Aegon would be a good example. Tyrion travels with Varys instead, and Dorne will probably do alone what Dorne and the Golden Company will achieve together in the books, in terms of storming King’s Landing. That kind of thing. So when they cut LSH, other characters take up the mantle: Sansa the Brienne and Jaime bit; and Brynden, the Brotherhood and Arya what the same group of people (with the possible exception of Arya) will do in the books, except with LSH leading the Brotherhood.

      As for why cut LSH in the first place? Because Catelyn is dead (and even with LSH, can we really say Catelyn is really back?), and D&D have shown they want to focus on the characters whose storylines we have been following for a while, giving subplots to more important characters (Sansa in the North, Jaime in Dorne, etc).

      Redxgod:
      My new take is that Mel will sacrifice herself to save Jon. There are no shots of her in trailers post the castle black events.

      There is a promotional picture from the fifth episode in which she seems to be leaving Castle Black on horseback with other characters.

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    100. Luka Nieto
      April 17, 2016 at 6:40 pm

      Florian:
      I remember last year when season finale title was revealed …
      Mother Mercy …
      And no LSH

      No, Mother’s Mercy. Which many of us assumed correctly referred to Cersei asking for the Mother’s mercy; begging to the High Sparrow, effectively, exactly as she did in the books, using those words. “Mother Mercy” would have been another thing entirely, or going further “Mother Merciless”. That would have pointed to LSH. “Mother’s Mercy” didn’t, really.

      My bad, thanks for the explanation.

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    101. Ben,

      He answered a question about characters that they were not in the show at that very moment which was a more than a year ago (if I remember well). But the show continues, we are in S6 and there is no-one who can guarantee the absence of LSH. On the contrary.

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    102. Flayed Potatoes,

      The original post states that “We also heard from another source that Kaye had been involved in some sort of hanging scene” – and obviously, in the books, there’s a big hanging scene with Thoros,

      LSH

      , and several other characters.

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    103. Googled Essie Davis…

      Just thinking out loud here, but, it’s kinda the perfect storm to land the Lady Stoneheart whammy on the audience, as everybody’s looking at:

      Tower of Joy!
      Clegane Bowl!
      Bastard-palooza 2016!
      Euron!
      Bloodraven!
      and something about Jon Snow, I really haven’t been paying attention

      The showrunners could, while everybody’s ‘Hey! Look over there!’, land a genuine surprise on the level of Lady Stoneheart- and what better way to rook people than to recast with an actress that looks like Michelle Fairly and is listed as playing someone else?

      I mean, I couldn’t think of a more satisfying Season 6 moment than having that shot of Littlefinger in the snowy forest hearing a strangely familiar voice calling to him, he turns around and *BAM* Lady Stoneheart’s standing there with the Bw/oB in tow and a rope.

      More than that, it’d go down as one of the greatest swerves in television history.

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    104. hellothere:

      Agreed! I don’t expect LSH, but those speculating she would be recast… come on, are you serious? Without the original actress, what is even the point?

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    105. Luka Nieto,

      Ok. Were these reports referring to a new leader of the band as a whole or to a part of the band that had split from the main core? I am not so sure if I remember that point well, so I trust you. Another alternative is to see Beric as their leader and then something happens (mutiny, betrayal ala LC Mormont) and he is killed. Do we know in how many eps the BWB part of the RLs storyline will be? Maybe that could give a measure to figure out how things will develop…

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    106. Luka Nieto: What do you mean? When they cut something, they write around it. Aegon would be a good example.

      It is not a good example. It would be like cutting YG, but leaving Jon Con, the Golden Company and septa Lemore.

      Here we have BwB, Thoros, without Beric(!), hanging, Brienne, Jaime’s scene in the woods,… Everything is here except LSH, so I believe she will be in the show as well.

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    107. Luka Nieto,

      Interesting read. Not sure I agree with Jon going back to the Wall. I think there will be a new LC (there are still NW members in the other two manned castles, and maybe who survives at CB). I think one of the reasons Jon died was for GRRM to get him out of the NW vows, as well as for him to be nowhere near the Wall when it finally goes down and everyone left there gets rekt. His formative period has also ended, so narratively speaking it doesn’t make sense to keep him stuck at the Wall. His character has to evolve. Similarly to how Dany won’t be in Essos forever.

      I think L7R also confirmed that a new LC was elected.

      Bran tinfoil (because I loved yours):

      He’s going to have visions and learn things from Bloodraven, but at one point he will get cocky about his abilities and the magic will backfire. WW will invade Bloodraven’s cave, as a result of Bran’s arrogance. Bloodraven gets rekt and Bran escapes with Meera, Hodor, Leaf, and hopefully Summer. At one point they’ll get attacked by a wight and the mystery horseman from the trailer appears to save them (please be Benjen lmao). Bran and friends head south (the picture with Bran riding that horse seals the deal for me) to warn everyone about the WW and reveal R+L=J to everyone next season.

      I wonder what will happen to Shaggydog. Any ideas? lol I hope you are right about Rickon btw.

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    108. Any fan who knows about and doesn’t want LSH to appear is in total denial and just laaaaaaaaame.

      “Sansa Stoneheart” zzzzzZZZZZzzzzzzz

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    109. Lyannaes,

      I forgot about that, but it still doesn’t mean LSH is in it imo. The casting for the outlaws said that they had turned against the land they were sworn to protect and that they had a new leader. It could be the new leader who is leading the hanging over LSH. I think it’s too late to introduce her and personally I’m not a fan of the character, so I hope she’s not on the show. There are already other characters taking revenge for the RW.

      If they do add her (pls no), she shouldn’t be played by anyone other than Michelle though.

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    110. mau,

      Not really a good comparison, because unlike Jon Con, The Golden Company, and Septa Lemore, The Brotherhood, Thoros, Brienne, and Jamie were already introduced. Since the TV audience already knows these characters, the groundwork is already laid, so they can very easily give the plot that LSH serves to another character. That’s not true for the Young Griff storyline.

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    111. Mitch,
      No one would call the Brotherhood’s remnants an army.An army is an army, a huge group of armed soldiers. Not a ragtag band of outlaws.

      What if the outlaws are wearing armor?

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    112. mau,

      Exactly. And there is no better hint to LSH because I don’t see any of the other alternatives to take over her role to be so much of a horror…

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    113. Kamali,

      But to which character?

      Everything from LSH book-plot is in the show. I see no reason for D&D to cut her and give her storyline to another character in this situation.

      And they will bring, every character back just like GRRM did. They brought back Beric and Gregor, they will bring back the Hound and Jon. Why would LSH be an exception?

      I don’t like resurrections, but they obviously do.

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    114. gewa76: What if the outlaws are wearing armor?

      Lol – reminds me of Hot Pie, Lommy and Gendry arguing about armor doesn’t make someone a knight

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    115. Flayed Potatoes,

      Yeah, I agree it doesn’t have to be LSH. I dunno, but I get the impression that D&D have tried to streamline the magical aspects of the show as much as possible (hence why Bran is the only Stark child that has really demonstrated warging abilities, etc), so I don’t think they’ll include LSH unless they HAVE to for the story to make sense. Your idea deffo makes sense too tbh.

      I really liked her in the books, but seeing as they’re having vengeful Sansa (as well as Arya), maybe her character can be replaced? I do agree that it is too late though, I personally would have thought that the end of s4 or the end of s5 would have been the best time to introduce her, especially if they really are gonna have 13 episodes left after this season ends.

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    116. Morgoth: Eh, dunno about you, but looking at people desperately grasping for straws and taking anything as “PROOF” and “CONFIRMED” and then cryingand stomping their feet when D&D don’t make their beloved character appear…yes, it makes them look unhinged.

      Whenever I see people shouting ‘Confirmed! Get hype!’ about various rumors and theories on these boards, I assume that they’re just goofing around, blowing off steam while they wait impatiently for the next installment. I wouldn’t take such posts at face value.

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    117. Lyannaes,

      Not really too late at all, even if LSH’s only purpose is bringing Jaime and Brienne together and putting those characters on a new paths (or ending their paths altogether), then they were patient and waited until the perfect time to introduce her. Plus, it allows more suspense for Jon’s resurrection.

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    118. Lyannaes,

      The amount of episodes left makes me think they’re leaving LSH out. I think they want to tie up loose ends to prepare for Dany’s conquest and the WW invasion, rather than complicate things. Sansa, Arya, and the Blackfish are definitely out for revenge, so that aspect of LSH plot is still there (just like JonCon’s greyscale got transferred to Jorah). Also, having too many resurrections might lessen the impact of certain deaths on the show imo.

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    119. mau: For now. There are strong implications what we will see Arya doing that in S6.

      What other magical aspect they cut?

      I hope we see Arya warging.

      Jon’s warging and wolf dreams are missing. We’re also missing Bran’s training (or we’re getting a shortened version in season 6).

      They also didn’t include the horn of winter and dragon horn (good riddance for those two tbh), Coldhands (I’d prefer Benjen), and some of Dany’s spoiler-filled visions from the House of the Undying. There are also other characters who have dreams and such, but I get how those would be too much, considering the time constraints.

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    120. mau,

      Yeah that’s true – I thought the same, especially with Jaime going to Dorne last season. Still, I’m glad we’re getting the other Tully’s back.

      As for the other magical aspects that they cut – a lot of prophecies, seers and characters like that (such as Arya and the Ghost of High Heart, the Mother Mole), Coldhands, Patchface (not explicitly magical, but there’s something there), the prologue in Oldtown seems to have some ….. weird aspects (especially the part with the candles. and Pate’s death), and the other Stark children all exhibit at least low-level warging skills, even Sansa. IDK, there’s a lot of stuff that’s been cut, and often for a good reason tbh. There’s a lot more too which I can’t remember (it’s been a while since I did a full read through).
      Plus there’s a lot of magical creatures from beyond the wall that we just never saw, although maybe “fantastical” is a better word to describe them, and again, winter is finally coming so they may appear in the future, who knows.

      EDIT: Flayed Potatoes has some more examples that I forgot

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    121. I think it might make the most sense to the current story line if Sansa takes over LSH plot (the seven know she has a lot to feel vengeful about) and Thoros is more for Mel and Jon.

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    122. Flayed Potatoes,

      Yes. They cut those things, but they cut many other things that have nothing to do with magic. So I don’t think they cut Arya’s warging because they don’t like magic. I think they delayed it to S6 when it becomes relevant. The same applies to Jon.

      They cut Dany’s visions from the House of the Undying because they were spoiler-filled . Pyat Pree was more magical in the show.

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    123. Flayed Potatoes,

      Yeah that’s the thing, if they are ending after 3 more seasons (including this one) then they aren’t going to start to introduce too many characters that have been missing up to this point. That wouldn’t make sense and would take away from the current characters whose stories and plotlines need to be served. With that said would have been nice to see Coldhands, Benjen, Arienne, etc.

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    124. So from the books, the hanging of

      Brienne, Pod, and Hyle which at least Brienne gets out of? Or the Frey hanging? Could see LSH replaced with another character for either of those scenes.

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    125. Flayed Potatoes,

      The number of episodes left is the main reason that makes me think they are leaving her out too, which I personally think is a shame. I think you’re probably right – they’re entering the final act of the story now, it’s time to start wrapping the minor parts up to leave room for the major characters.

      Also, having too many resurrections might lessen the impact of certain deaths on the show imo.

      Yeah, I think though this would only be the case because of them having her pop up in the same series as Jon. Had there been the off-season (or a full series if they’d had it at the end of s4) inbetween then this might not have been the case, but having two major resurrections in the space of a few weeks would seem quite soap opera-y.

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    126. mau,

      Um yeah. I was just answering your question :P.

      If they bring warging into Jon and Arya’s arcs, this is the time to do it (especially in Arya’s case).

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    127. mau,

      It’s not an unreasonable conclusion in the very least. For the first time in years, there’s actually some circumstancial evidence for LSH. I’m not convinced, but I don’t think it’s silly to believe in LSH now.

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    128. Ser Roger Sterling,

      That’s true. If that’s the case then this would be the perfect time, but I’d really gotten my hopes up at the end of s4 (and again at the end of s5), so now I’m just …. kinda given up. If she is back, though, and it’s done well, I’ll be absolutely ecstatic.

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    129. Flayed Potatoes:

      They also didn’t include the horn of winter and dragon horn (good riddance for those two tbh), Coldhands (I’d prefer Benjen tbh), and some of Dany’s spoiler-filled visions from the House of the Undying.

      They did show what most book readers think is the Horn of Winter (the one found with the Dragonglass) though it is unlikely to be it in the show.

      As to the Dragon Horn, how can you tell since the person who has it in the book is only turning up this season?

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    130. Luka Nieto,

      Yes, what little we see of the BWB at the end in the books reflects a very different vibe than the one we see with Beric/Thoros … the mood is very dark and focused on revenge for the Red Wedding … when Beric died and LSH became the leader, her “personality” changed the group. The term Outlaws fit the group. Thoros:

      “… but now our brotherhood is broken. I do not know who we are, if truth be told, nor where we might be going. I only know the road is dark. The fires have not shown me what lies at the end…. Lord Beric’s fire has gone out of the world, I fear. A grimmer shadow lead us in his place … some knights are dark and full of terror, my lady. War makes monsters of us all…. (discussion about using the Hound’s helm) … savage, snarling, twisted … is that who you would be?”

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    131. dothrakian raven:
      Ben,

      He answered a question about characters that they were not in the show at that very moment which was a more than a year ago (if I remember well). But the show continues, we are in S6 and there is no-one who can guarantee the absence of LSH. On the contrary.

      Yup, and Martin also said in that piece that “if the show ever does get to the Riverlands again”. So that quote obviously predated a finalized season 6 storyline.

      And lo and behold, we’re in the Riverlands during the latter part of season 6.

      Hallelujah! Praise R’hllor!

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    132. Conan: They did show what most book readers think is the Horn of Winter (the one found with the Dragonglass) though it is unlikely to be it in the show.

      As to the Dragon Horn, how can you tell since the person who has it in the book is only turning up this season?

      I know they showed a horn, but it’s obvious they won’t use it. That’s why I included it.

      As for the dragon horn, we’ll wait and see.

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    133. I loved him in season 3 so am glad he is back 😀

      not taking the LSH Hype Express….

      Arya is already confirmed in Riverlands at some point in season 6…semi trained assassin Ayra who spent 4 seasons putting herself to sleep reciting her “list”…it wont be the zombie version of a character we last saw 3 years ago hungry for Frey blood…it will be an alive and well Ayra Stark getting her vengeance

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    134. Luka Nieto,

      There are quite a few holes in this theory though:

      Why would Sansa want to exact revenge on Jaime specifically? Surely Brienne would explain that it was him who tasked her with getting Sansa to safety?

      Also- I really can’t see Brienne doing this as she has fulfilled her oath by this point, as you say Sansa is ‘safe at Castle Black”. Job done. So how can Sansa be in hiding and vulnerable if she’s “safe” at Castle Black (in fact she appears to be at Bear Island)? There seems to be a contradiction here.

      If anything I’d say Brienne goes off to find Arya again at Sansas request (hence the “back to square one” references to Brienne/Pods storyline).

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    135. Sean C.,

      true, although

      we know that Brienne survived her first encounter with LSH, i think someone said that Podrick also survived the encounter (although I could be making that up, it was in an interview or something so I could be misremembering) so the only real major character left that we know she’s after is Jaime – I don’t really count the Freys as major characters, although I don’t doubt that she will continue to take them out. But I tend to believe that Jaime, not Tyrion, is the Valonqar, so I don’t believe that Jaime will die at her hands.

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    136. Apollo: Why would Sansa want to exact revenge on Jaime specifically? Surely Brienne would explain that it was him who tasked her with getting Sansa to safety?

      My whole idea on how this plays out is this:

      Now safe, Sansa decides to send Brienne after Jaime, once she learns of their bond: As Jaime trusts Brienne, she must somehow convince him to follow her back North, where she will hand him over. Reluctant, Brienne explains Jaime is now a different man who made a vow to keep Catelyn’s daughters safe, yet Sansa argues that even if that were true he still tried to kill Bran and fought against Robb. Also, Jaime is a key enemy figure, as the Lord Commander of Tommen’s Kingsguard, a Lannister general, and Cersei’s brother. The discussion is over when Brienne is reminded of her oaths to Catelyn and Sansa —if Brienne wants to be worthy of Oathkeeper, which was forged from Ned Stark’s sword, she must live up to that name and obey Sansa, or else become an oathbreaker and have the sword renamed accordingly, tarnishing its legacy.

      Apollo: So how can Sansa be in hiding and vulnerable if she’s “safe” at Castle Black (in fact she appears to be at Bear Island)? There seems to be a contradiction here.

      Hm… I thought it was obvious she was lying, just as she does in the books, telling Jaime that the Hound has the Stark girl to lure him to LSH.

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    137. By the sword of the Pale Child Bakkalon, this *is* good news!

      Hey, I’m on record as thinking from the moment we heard the Blackfish/Riverrun/Freys subplot would return in Season 6 that it meant we’d get LSH in the Season 6 finale.

      Good news!

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    138. Luka Nieto,

      But why Sansa will be compelled to demand from Brienne to kill Jamie who hasn’t harmed her at all. I mean Sansa’s problem at KL was Joffrey and Cercei. So if Sansa is saved by Brienne in Ep 1 why would she want to put her in such a trial? Why you exclude the fact that because Sansa was saved by Brienne she will in the end trust Brienne when the latter will explain to her about Jaimie. And how will Sansa manage to deal with both her campaign to save the north and Brienne’s and Jaimie’s strange relationship and LF etc? There is no time for her to be involved in all this. So Sansa cannot take LSHs role. And in fact nobody else can. As mau said all the characters that make up the LSH plot have been confirmed to be in S6 and so the logic is that the only character who will miss the party will be LSH? It just doesn’t make much sense.

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    139. Luka Nieto,

      Surely though considering what’s she’s been through (and had taken from her as she says in the trailer), her main priority now that she is in relative safety, would be to track down and reunite with the family that she thought she’d lost. And as Brienne has met Arya, she’d surely send her back South to bring her home (perhaps this time with a letter from Sansa). That would bring her far more closure than vengeance on a guy who indirectly helped her get home (does she even know Jaime pushed Bran?). Indeed- that is what Briennes oath to Catelyn related to… Reuniting the Starks, not vengeance on Lannisters, so all the more reason why it makes more sense that she’ll be off to find Arya.

      I can’t see Jaime making it from KL, to RR then WF in the space of episodes 7-10 especially with the 2 episodes that we know of at Riverrun and everything else that’s going on.

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    140. Completely agree re: Michelle Fairley. Would be utterly pointless to bring this divisive character on the show and have her played by someone else with no emotional connection to the audience or the characters.

      I feel like people like to downplay the magical/mystical aspects of the show because it somehow makes it less cool if you are watching a show with a heavy magical bent. The very first scene of the show established that we were firmly in fantasy territory. Just because they have doled the WW out sparingly since then doesn’t mean they’re not going full steam ahead with them now. Going forward, this show is going to be rooted in dragons, ice zombies and time traveling tree people and less about political scheming. This show you love is far more Lord of the Rings than House of Cards. Nerds. 😛

      PS: Luka, you put a lot of work into your spec. I read it all and while I don’t agree with all of it, well done!

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    141. Luka Nieto,

      I just dont see that scenario.. my thought is Sansa’s focus this season is going to be getting Winterfell back from the Boltons.,trying to find her little brothers and understanding the REAL threat that is coming (Nights King &Co). There is literally no reason Sansa would have to want Jamie as a captive. I dont believe she knows he is the one that pushed Bran from the tower (unless i am forgetting something from the show) and they had very little, if any, interactions in Kings Landing and she wont need Jamie as political captive as Lannisters/Starks are not technically at war anymore.

      Sansa has a full plate this season, Jamie Lannister isnt on her radar imo

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    142. dothrakian raven: But why Sansa will be compelled to demand from Brienne to kill Jamie who hasn’t harmed her at all.

      So Sansa doesn’t care to avenge Bran, Robb and generally her whole family. Sure. Also, I didn’t say kill; I said take him back North. Will Sansa just take him as a hostage, kill him? I don’t know. Look, Jaime is an enemy. It’s not that she chooses Jaime because she hates him the most or anything; it’s simple opportunity. She learns Jaime trusts Brienne, so that’s an in into a major enemy figure. As simple as that. You’re reversing causality here. I’m not saying Sansa is obsessed with Jaime or anything; she simply makes use of the opportunity unwillingly offered by Brienne.

      Apollo: And as Brienne has met Arya, she’d surely send her back South to bring her home (perhaps this time with a letter from Sansa).

      Yup, that’s my secondary idea for Brienne to go south. However, it doesn’t explain how she ends up in Riverrun, really. Unless we’re missing something in the middle, which is quite possible.

      Laura: PS: Luka, you put a lot of work into your spec. I read it all and while I don’t agree with all of it, well done!

      Thanks! I’m not even sure I agree with all of it 😀 It’s just my best crack at it, but I often change my mind.

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    143. Agreed on all points. There’s simply no time for all that.

      Although I’m not a huge LSH fan and had dismissed the idea that this arc would
      be included in the show, it’s now clear that all the pieces are in place to bring her into the story…. Whether fans like it or not.

      dothrakian raven:
      Luka Nieto,

      But why Sansa will be compelled to demand from Brienne to kill Jamie who hasn’t harmed her at all. I mean Sansa’s problem at KL was Joffrey and Cercei. So if Sansa is saved by Brienne in Ep 1 why would she want to put her in such a trial? Why you exclude the fact that because Sansa was saved by Brienne she will in the end trust Brienne when the latter will explain to her about Jaimie. And how will Sansa manage to deal with both her campaign to save the north and Brienne’s and Jaimie’s strange relationship and LF etc? There is no time for her to be involved in all this. So Sansa cannot take LSHs role. And in fact nobody else can. As mau said all the characters that make up the LSH plot have been confirmed to be in S6 and so the logic is that the only character who will miss the party will be LSH? It just doesn’t make much sense.

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    144. Yeah, he’ll probably be hanging Freys and Lannisters in the Riverlands, but I really really really doubt Stoneheart is in it… most likely, the Brotherhood has shifted from what it was and has a new leader (that we probably dont know of yet), or perhaps Thoros is their leader now…

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    145. Luka Nieto,

      There are any number of reasons she could end up there…. let’s not forget, Brienne is a wanted figure by most of the North and the Riverlands for her part in Jaimes escape, so she could be taken prisoner by remnants of these forces, or TBWOB, or, when on her travels south (or to the Vale again), she simply hear that’s Jaime is at RR and seeks his help to find Arya in some way.

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    146. The Dragon Demans has just permanently banned me from the wiki for harshly criticising his article bashing GoT for race issues, as I asked whether he was one of the idiots who complaint when Idris Elba was cast as Heimdall despite not being, you know, white (I assume the answer is yes, because if not then he is not one of those idiots). This and my repeated offenses towards him (summed up in my inability to take him seriously) have earned me a permanent ban. What was that Cersei quote about wearing this as a batch of honor? Anyway, though it’s a load off my back, I hope others take the mantle of at least trying to control TDD’s worst excesses in his management of the wiki.

      BTW, all this LSH talk kind of ignores that the outlaw band is confirmed to have a new character as a leader. A man named (or code-named) Lachlan.

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    147. I was in complete agreement with Luka regarding Sansa/Brienne/Jaimie when he first released his predictions, but I too at this point think that Sansa is going to send Briene south to find Arya. Then while Brienne is in search of her, she hears about Jaimie being in the Riverlands and goes to find him so he can help her find Arya too. Maybe this is what their argument is about when they first meet, Brienne trying to convince him to keep his words to Cat and help find the girl, and Jamie being more practical and saying she is probably dead by now, and he is too busy with the siege.

      Still doesn’t answer the who takes the LSH role in the Brienne/Jamie/Hanging subplot though. But it might have something to do with the Blackfish forging a new plan once Brienne tells him what Sansa is up to in the North.

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    148. Yeah, I’d say LSH looks much more likely with this news. Remember this casting call nugget from last June?

      Bower: He is a powerless servant, numb to the horror he serves. He’s filming around one of the days that below “outlaw band” members are so he may be connected to them. He is required to have a Northern or Midland English accent and appears in one episode.

      The only “horrors” in the show at this point are Robert Strong and the White Walkers/wights, and they probably won’t have anything to do with outlaw bands. So this is either LSH or something totally new from TWOW (or not in the books at all).

      BTW, Mel would need to borrow Littlefinger’s jetpack to get Jon’s corpse to the Riverlands before the decomposition becomes too much to handle. Hopefully LF has a two-person model.

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    149. Luka Nieto,

      I apologise I have exaggerated about Sansa wanting to kill Jaimie. In any case it seems that the scenario that has Sansa to take over LSHs role diminishes the dynamic of Brienne’s oath and make it just a ploy for showing Sansa to have the power to decide about others. Brienne’s oath, if it is going to have any significance in S6, was an oath given to Catelyn. And as I said before there is no time for Sansa to deal with all this when she will have the North Remembers campaign to rally. Other than that praise from me too for your engagement and interesting speculations.

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    150. Why does anyone have to take LSH’s place? Why can’t Brienne simply be put in a place where she has to betray her oath to Catelyn or let Jaime die? Red Wedding 2.0 does that quite nicely, if Brienne hears about the plan from the Blackfish when she’s in the RL, searching for Arya on her own possibly, or just aligning herself with Tully forces. Brienne knows Jaime is supposed to be at RW2.0 and also knows how important it is for the Tullys to take out Jaime. She chooses to save Jaime’s life. They take off together. End of season.

      No LSH needed.

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    151. dothrakian raven: Brienne’s oath, if it is going to have any significance in S6, was an oath given to Catelyn.

      And to Sansa in season five.

      dothrakian raven: And as I said before there is no time for Sansa to deal with all this when she will have the North Remembers campaign to rally.

      What time? In my speculation, she simply sends Brienne away and she doesn’t have to deal with it until the whole Stark-Bolton clash is already wrapped up.

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    152. LSH! Get hyped!

      Seriously, let her die already. I was hyped, too, at the end of Season 3. Even at the beginning of Season 4. But after Season 4 was over, it was past time to give up that ghost. Ain’t gonna happen.

      As a matter of fact, the constant state of denial in the fandom over the absence of LSH is so humorous that it reminds me of this ballad: Fans are never going to give her up. Fans are never going to let us down. And fans are certainly never going to say goodbye to their Stoneheart.

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    153. They didn’t introduce LSH yet because they want to go all out this season on the fantasy: resurrections, White Walkers, dragons, tree magic, giants.

      Just let the floodgates open.

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    154. Yeah. I was an early proponent of a “Lady Sansaheart” twist back last year.

      But the scenes with her in Stark colors which look like they are perhaps both at the Umbers and on the battlefield have me doubting that. It is hard for me to see her in both plots. One is a leadership role of a large force the other of a small furtive band of outlaws. Doesn’t really mesh in my head.

      Of course, just because there is Thoros and a hanging doesn’t mean the LSH plot necessarily. They can just be hanging a random Frey or two which I think also occurred in the books. Though crimethink’s link to the casting call about “the horror he serves” does make it seem like more than just outlaws hanging people.

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    155. I’m in the group that doesn’t think the show would necessarily be better or worse if LSH is included.

      My previous resistance to the idea of her inclusion was mainly based on my belief that it would make The Hound’s return less likely. However, since McShane has pretty much confirmed that it’s The Hound he’s bringing back, I’m not as upset about the possibility of LSH as I might have been.

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    156. Luka Nieto,

      Do you mean in ep 10 or in S7? Jaimie is in RLs until Ep8. Ep9 is the bastardbowl. When will Brienne bring Jaimie to Sansa? In any case the only mission Sansa can give to Brienne is to go and find her sister. I do not think so they will meet after this moment in S6 unless I have missed some piece of information…
      But it would be funny if Brienne, Jaimie and LF are at WF in ep.10. It is extremely strange that we have seen just one clip from LF.

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    157. Luka Nieto: BTW, all this LSH talk kind of ignores that the outlaw band is confirmed to have a new character as a leader. A man named (or code-named) Lachlan.

      C’mon, Luka, think about it…with the exception of the “c,” all the letters in Lachlan are also in LSH (when it’s spelled out). Obviously, it’s just a code-name to throw us off. 😉

      (Disclaimer: This bit of silliness is not directed at any of the LSH fans I’ve seen post on this thread)

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    158. Nymeria Warrior Queen: C’mon, Luka, think about it…with the exception of the “c,” all the letters in Lachlan are also in LSH (when it’s spelled out).Obviously, it’s just a code-name to throw us off.

      (Disclaimer:This bit of silliness is not directed at any of the LSH fans I’ve seen post on this thread)

      Lachlan starts with L. The last letter of CleganeBowl is L. CLEGANEBOWL CONFIRMED.

      Exactly, NMQ, exactly.

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    159. Ugh. Lady Sansaheart…. zzzzZZZZZzzzzzzZZZZZzzzzz. Unknown new BwB leader… zzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzz

      Just let the LSH euphoria wash over you. You know you want it to happen. It’s a plot twist even the dumbest of showrunners wouldn’t pass up and last time I checked, D&D were some of the best around.

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    160. Luka Nieto:
      The Dragon Demans has just permanently banned me from the wiki for harshly criticising his article bashing GoT for race issues

      Hahaha. After banishing the Werthead for being a sloth, now TDD has become a nonsensical tyrant. Yeah, I saw that article. Ridiculous stuff.
      Don’t mind the Dragon much. I thought he was amusing for a time, then he got annoying.

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    161. Kamali:
      mau,

      Not really a good comparison, because unlike Jon Con, The Golden Company, and Septa Lemore, The Brotherhood, Thoros, Brienne, and Jamie were already introduced. Since the TV audience already knows these characters, the groundwork is already laid, so they can very easily give the plot that LSH serves to another character. That’s not true for the Young Griff storyline.

      no, they cannot. LSH deeply interacts with the Jaime/Brienne story, and almost certainly will meet at least one of her daughters (probably Arya) before the end, to some tragic or meaningful end. No one else can do either.

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    162. Firannion:
      I’m not going to lose any sleep over whether LSH will be in the show or not, but I still can’t think of a better ultimate resolution to Arya’s Faceless arc than giving the Gift of Mercy to her mother. The author said that LSH still has a purpose in the books besides hanging Freys, and my money is on its being laying Arya’s hunger for vengeance to rest.

      That would be a beautiful ending. Hope you’re right, at least for the books.

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    163. Philip Mcginley, the actor who played Anguy the Archer, follows me on Twitter and Instagram.. I asked him on both if he was coming back for Season 6 and he deleted my Instagram comment and ignored my tweet. Interesting.

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    164. GeekFurious,

      I don’t know about Thoros resurrecting Jon Snow. I’m with those who think glamor is ridiculous and he is too far away to be any help. Unless he has seen something in the fire and headed that way some time ago.

      But since some of us are back to talking about the means of Jons possible resurrection: why was Mel getting naked and looking kind of scared about it in the first trailer? I’ve said before she only gets naked for ppl with kings blood. Davos is dead, Gendry still rowing…isn’t Jon the only option here? I don’t think it has to do with the reasurection necessarily, but didn’t it look like she was still at Castle Black? If I am right, Jon isn’t going to the Riverlands. Maybe he’s making. Shadow baby for Ramsey. Just some thoughts. I’d love to hear what others think.

      Also: I love this community and how they stand up against bullying and hate speech.

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    165. Florian:
      I remember last year when season finale title was revealed …
      Mother Mercy …
      And no LSH ?

      It was Mother’s Mercy. Sometimes language makes all the difference.

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    166. Luka Nieto,

      For the record I predict that “The Red Woman” refers to both Mel AND LSH.

      I predict that Littlefinger will stumble upon her in the woods – that’s who he seemed so surprised by in the trailers.

      I predict ep 1 will end with LSH being revealed.

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    167. Interesting to hear, when he was no longer on Arya’s list I figured the show had decided to do without the BwB

      I reckon though they’ll just directly swap Blackfish for LS, they’ll have the Tully’s rise up and re-take RR akin to the Sparrows rising up against Lannisters in KL and Ellaria killing Myrcella etc, but this season will cover the Lannister fight back, so we have Cersei/SRS against the Sparrows and Jaimie re-taking RR as in AFfC

      Then probably tying it up with a Lannister-Frey celebration wedding, which is perhaps where Thoros fills the Tom O’Sevens role?

      Will be fascinating to see the state of play in the RL and KL at the end of the season, I reckon both will be in flames as the Tyrells will unleash the Randyll on KL and the Sparrows once they (IMO) kill Ser Loras

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    168. Firannion:

      I’m not going to lose any sleep over whether LSH will be in the show or not, but I still can’t think of a better ultimate resolution to Arya’s Faceless arc than giving the Gift of Mercy to her mother. The author said that LSH still has a purpose in the books besides hanging Freys, and my money is on its being laying Arya’s hunger for vengeance to rest.

      This would be good, very interesting idea! Even if I’m among the very few people who don’t want LSH to be back. I didn’t like her. [ spoiler ] She seemed a horrible selfless and soulless shadow of what Catelyn was. Neither did I like what she did to Brienne and poor innocent Pod. And only the thought of making Brienne suffer because of her honour, just like Ned had done, makes me very sad. [ / spoiler ]
      OT: iirc you watch Outlander. I have just watched the first episode of the new season and I have a question for you, please: there is another ring shown (besides the ring Claire got when she married Jamie): seemed like silver, gemless, but with place for a missing gem. Has this ring appeared before? What’s its meaning/ purpose?

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    169. Shy Lady Dragon: there is another ring shown (besides the ring Claire got when she married Jamie): seemed like silver, gemless, but with place for a missing gem. Has this ring appeared before? What’s its meaning/ purpose?

      I was trying to figure that out myself! I wasn’t even sure that it was a ring (the episode looked very dark on my TV screen for some reason), but definitely some sort of bauble that is meaningful to her in some way. In the books I think that Jamie gave Claire a piece of jewelry that had belonged to his mother, but I forget what it was, and I don’t recall it coming up in Season 1 of the show. And there’s the piece of amber that Jamie’s mute beggar friend gives her as a wedding present, but the object she was fingering didn’t look like that at all. Also, in the third book there are some unset gemstones that are part of a cache hidden by the Jacobites to finance the restoration of Bonnie Prince Charlie, but those should not have come into the story as yet. In sum, I’m as baffled as you are, Your Shyness!

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    170. Luka Nieto:
      This is great. The mysterious religious outlaws from the casting calls seemed to be a corruption of the brotherhood, so it does make sense to catch up with Thoros as well. I don’t think this means LSH will appear, of course, but I won’t deny it makes the speculation way easier and those who hope for her will be quite hyped now. I hope it doesn’t disappoint them too much if she doesn’t make an appearance.

      Personally, I think LSH’s role will be handled variously by Sansa, Arya, Brynden and the brotherhood itself.

      Given that we’re going to have Jaime and Brienne in the Riverlands, the Siege of Riverrun, the return of the Blackfish and the Tullys, the return of Walder and his sons, and Thoros of Myr presumably hanging about with the remains of the Brotherhood without Banners, it’s rather obvious that they are going to do some version of the Stoneheart plot. I don’t expect LSH to show up herself, but I do expect D&D to fully toy with us and name the episode something like Heart of Stone…

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    171. Not to fan the hype but LSH is the corruption of TBWB and the motivation to kill Freys. Can’t see that being replaced nor happening with Beric still around. GRRM also said LSH has an important part to play…but most of all, remember after previous seasons, everyone was sure LSH was cut but Michelle Fairley would not confirm a return other than say she’s dead? (kinda like Kit for this season?) I think D&D have just held back (remember the gag they kept putting off?) until now. Even in the books, we don’t know about her until she’s already been hanging freys for awhile…I’m sure she’s in and it all happened off screen. Also, I agree with her giving the kiss of life to Jon…even the show made a big deal about how her character was a spiteful/petty woman for wishing him dead. Seems like there was a reason for all that…

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    172. mau:
      Luka Nieto,

      Jaime and the Freys will celebrate their victory at the Twins.
      Brienne will be forced to bring Jaime to LSH. Then they will use Jaime to infiltrate the Twins and then he will have RW 2.0.

      I think something similar will happen in the books.

      I fully expect something precisely like that to happen in the books (if they ever com out, that is.)

      As for the show, well…

      The trailer shows us a new scene with Walder and his sons celebrating something with a bunch of Lannisters soldiers, didn’t see Jaime, but one would assume, as the putative Lannisters commander, that he would be there…It’s rather clear from the mise-en-scene in the trailer that the scene is meant to evoke shades of the show version of the Red Wedding…The show clearly wouldn’t waste resources showing this celebration scene unless something major was about to go down, one would think…

      As for LSH, I really don’t know…for years I assumed she’d been cut…Of course I had also thought that they were going to cut the Siege at Riverrun and the Jaime in the Riverlands business too, and look where we are…

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    173. Melisandre’s and Stannis’ storylines have never really made sense to me. So, Melisandre talks Stannis into going to the wall, because the White Walkers are the real threat. And the first thing they do is fight and defeat Wildlings? After that, what do they do (after hanging around for a bit)? Stannis leaves to go back into fighting for the Throne. What was the point to going up to the Wall, if all he was going to do is leave before ever dealing with the threat he went up there for?

      At least in the books, Melisandre stays at the Wall, which makes more sense. But why doesn’t she try to talk Stannis into staying up there? If he needed to take over the Throne of Westeros before fighting the White Walkers, then why didn’t he start that fight from Dragonstone? And if he needed to be at the Wall to fight White Walkers, then why didn’t he stay there?

      Clearly, the were needed up there, plot-wise, to save Jon and the Night’s Watch from Mance and the Wildlings. But from their own characters’ point of view, their actions don’t really make much sense.

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    174. BWB will be there for two episodes, Jaime will be in Riverrun only for two episodes, he has to have the siege, talk with Blackfish, threat Edmure. None of them will be on episode 9, and they come with episode 10 and Arya on Riverlands
      There is no time for LSH and Jaime with Brienne missing for weeks.
      We will get the aftermatch with Arya directly, we need BWB but not LSH…. plus in the show Thoros is on Arya’s list and Jaime isn’t.

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    175. What if those trailer scenes at the Twins with Walder hosting Lannisters arent from the latter episodes precluding Riverrun, but actually of Bran flashback to RW aftermath of the Freys toasting their new alliance, including what happened to his mother?

      Robbwind further mocked in the halls before being burnt, naked Cat thrown in the river to be dragged out by Nymeria, etc etc?

      If Bloodrawen is showing Bran key episodes from the past, surely not all of that will focus on Jon/TOJ, so may well include what happened to he mum and bro?

      Maybe, maybe not. But count me in the camp considering a hanging scene with Thoros to be highly suggestive of a late appearance by her Ladyship.

      Why include every single aspect of her plotline in the Riverlands from: outlaws, to hangings, returning Freys and Tullys, a likely Merrett stand in on the casting calls, and Brienne and Jaime correctly placed but NOT LSH herself?

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    176. SnowLives: I predict that Littlefinger will stumble upon her in the woods – that’s who he seemed so surprised by in the trailers.

      Littlefinger is not in the woods. Not exactly. He’s on Winterfell’s godswood.

      dothrakian raven: Jaimie is in RLs until Ep8. Ep9 is the bastardbowl. When will Brienne bring Jaimie to Sansa?

      Someone from L7R mockingly mentioned Jaime would use Littlefinger’s jetpack to be very far away from Riverrun by the end of the season. That could mean King’s Landing, Winterfell, wherever, really, as long as it is far from Riverrun. Not sure if the Twins could be included in that list of possibilities… Anyway, based on that I assumed Brienne and Jaime would skip one episode and then appear in Winterfell.

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    177. Ser Roger Sterling: Unknown new BwB leader… zzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzz

      It’s not like that’s a rumor… That’s confirmed by the casting calls, assuming the outlaw bands described there is a corruption of the Brotherhood, which seems to be the case (“using their religion to justify their deeds”).

      Chad Brick: If you don’t think the LSH and Benjen trolling in S5E10 was intentional on the part of D&D, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

      I mean, they used a relevant book quote to refer to one of the major storylines in the episode, as they always do, in this case Cersei’s. It also followed the familiar pattern since season three for the finales —Mhysa (menaing “Mother”), The Children, Mother’s Mercy. All of which, by the way, were believed at the time to be hints of LSH… because Catelyn was a mother once, presumably. So… yeah, I think it’s fans deluding themselves, not D&D trolling anyone.

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    178. Damien: What if those trailer scenes at the Twins with Walder hosting Lannisters arent from the latter episodes precluding Riverrun, but actually of Bran flashback to RW aftermath of the Freys toasting their new alliance, including what happened to his mother?

      Because Lannisters weren’t present at the Red Wedding.

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    179. I wouldn’t mind seeing Michelle Fairley again but thinking realistically it’s late in the day – but with GoT you never know.

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    180. Erm … I said RW ‘aftermath’. As in … afterwards. Lannister soldiers toasting the Frey alliance in the days immediately after the wedding? Naturally that woudl include some scoffing over the bodies of Cat and Robb which could have been kept in situ until their new leige lords had gloated.

      Unlikely anyway, but that hall and the lighting and the placement of the tables looks identical to how it did in season 3’s RW.

      And I still think that if they’re doing Bran flashbacks in the same season as a possible LSH appearance in the Riverlands, they could actually go one better than the book to get a glimpse of Nymeria pulling her from the river and the actual resurrection as opposed to one almighty Thoros info-dump.

      That said, I still think it was a mistake during the brief montage of RW aftermath in S3E10, that they never briefly showed her naked body being thrown into the river.

      On the plus side, Sansa still mentioned that happening in S4E01 … which I’ve always thought curious if they intended to cut the character completely.

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    181. LSH isn’t coming back.
      Until I see news about Farley herself being spotted, I won’t believe it.
      She had a perfect end in the show, no need to inflict that literature insult upon her character like Martin did.

      Anyway on to the news.

      I’m happy Paul gave Thoros a charisma he never had in the books. A very small, and frankly bad character, was given much more personality.
      I’m happy to see him again.

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    182. With all this shit happening, it’s amazing that the majority of the episode lengths thus far have been on the short side.

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    183. Shy Lady Dragon: This would be good, very interesting idea! Even if I’m among the very few people who don’t want LSH to be back. I didn’t like her. [ spoiler ] She seemed a horrible selfless and soulless shadow of what Catelyn was. Neither did I like what she did to Brienne and poor innocent Pod. And only the thought of making Brienne suffer because of her honour, just like Ned had done, makes me very sad. [ / spoiler ]
      OT: iirc you watch Outlander. I have just watched the first episode of the new season and I have a question for you, please: there is another ring shown (besides the ring Claire got when she married Jamie): seemed like silver, gemless, but with place for a missing gem. Has this ring appeared before? What’s its meaning/ purpose?

      It is an interesting idea

      For what it’s worth though I look at LS as a rather excellent way of exploring how a thirst for revenge just leads to a downward spiral and to hatred where everything is destroyed, eg where does it stop and this of course is how we descend into terrible cycles of war crimes

      Looking at book Thoros perspective is good in this way, they start out as noble and descend into something else

      Thing with the prospect of a RW Mk2, is I suspect if the theory holds up, GRRM will write it as a Rains of Castemere Mk2. Eg everyone is appalled at RW, the reader cheers at the idea of revenge, only this isn’t just “noble” revenge against the Soldiers, LS will likely kill all of Walder Freys numerous family, then she will kill the women and children etc of the Twins and it will be all quite horrific and rightly so, with the reader being appalled. A good writer can set the reader up to think/feel one way and then make the reader totally adjust their perspective. Jaimie is a fantastic example of this, you are made to dislike him but after bathtub with Brienne the reader has a different perspective. I suspect Sansa is an inverse, she is a victim for so long but she’ll be a rather Dark Queen out of Harrenhall IMO

      I enjoy GRRM as an American writer, as he unexpectedly so excellently understands what happens when one wants to use war for otherwise “altruistic” reasons, eg Dany’s whole “free the poor slaves” self-righteousness leads to Slavers bay descending into horrific chaos and impoverishment, the Butcher King and Astapor vs Yunkai is great as it shows that she is simply overturning one ruling class to be replaced by another and the “poor victims” are no better

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    184. Have never been a fan of LSH in the books, but that is entirely different discussion. I am excited for the return of Kaye and the BwB, simply because they were a very memorable group and their corruption has a nice theme to it. I don’t think this in anyway leads to LSH, more likely the Blackfish is their leader. They need to explain where he has been after his piss break, and him being vengeful makes a lot of sense within the show universe. I do believe this will all lead to the revenge on the Freys that will probably be some sort of climax in WoW.

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    185. Fwiw, I don’t think the showrunners will go with LS for the same reason they’ve only shown Bran to be a warg and they didn’t do any glamouring with Mances death, as they don’t want to dilute a point of focus. Eg Beric shows it’s possible but only one character can be resurrected and to maintain impact they can’t “cheapen” it with other examples

      LS works as a literary theme as noted above, though as a show theme perhaps not to the same degree.

      It is simple enough just to make the Blackfish the new head of the BWB and given any theoretical revenge arc for the RW to him, converging whatever his remaining point in the books is with LS

      Similar to how I suspect the show is combining Rickons book plot with Ser Davos regarding the North with Sansa’s book plot concerning the RL/Vale/Harrenhall where I suspect the Vale Army + Tully remnants helps her ascend to rulership out of Harrenhall, though they’ll just kill Rickon via Ramsay and have Sansa being the figurehead in the North, perhaps they will send her to RL in S7 or they’ll just skip over much of the Vale/RL plot ala Aegons conquest

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    186. Luka Nieto,

      Thank you for your speculation! I liked it a lot and saved it, like the first one. If you change it further, please let me know!

      My heart aches for Brienne, but I consider this a very suitable end for her.

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    187. I think, cos Benioff wrote the screenplay for Troy, The Freys and Lannisters will get proper pissed off their nut, The Brotherhood will sneak in and slaughter most of them while they’re inebriated and HANG JAMIE!

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    188. Firannion,

      Thank you so much, m’lady! I haven’t read the books, but I’m always happy to find out about spoilers. This time I thought I had forgotten something.
      I recall that Claire received a string of Baroque, irregular pearls which had belonged to Jamie’s mother. I have only some unclear memory of something else (a bracelet or something) offered by her friend, the man who had been in love with Jamie’s mother, but this was a bigger piece of metal – it’s funny that I sort of remember its size and shape, but not what it actually was.
      I guess we are not supposed to know about it yet.

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    189. Demon Monkey: It was Mother’s Mercy. Sometimes language makes all the difference.

      And LSH is supposed to be Mother Merciless, though some editions wrongly have it as the antonym, Mother Mercy.

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    190. Maggie,

      about Arya’s List: I think that this list was a long one when Arya was so emotionally wrecked after her family’s tragedies. Everyone who would try to harm her or her friends will be included. With time I think the list trimmed down to a rational level of really evil names. So I don’t see Thoros to be a prominent name in this list. I mean, yes he sold Gentry to Mel, but why this would mean that Arya would like to kill him when they meet again? But then again I do not know what consequences her training in Braavos will have in her psyche so maybe her list will explode when she is back to Westeros. I have the impression though that by now she has rationalised the length of the list since some of the main inhabitants of it have already paid a fair price.

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    191. I never thought it would happen (and I’m still doubtful), but now I’m really starting to consider LSH might actually appear. Look at all the signs:
      1. Jaime in the RL
      2. Brienne in the RL
      3. BWB back
      4. Freys back (Lame Lothar notably absent from the feast…)

      Also, given what we know I’m really not inclined to believe either Sansa or Blackfish will take on the role, since neither seem to be in the right place, and neither have had any proper scenes with Jaime and/or Brienne.

      Still, I’m doubtful. But it might happen. Never thought I would say that.

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    192. I wonder if Thoros is one of the “oathbreakers” of episode three? His disillusionment of the BwB’s changing goals could fit in with the theme…

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    193. Ghosts Lunch,

      I fully agree to your interpretation of LSH symbolism. It would be suitable to this vision to have the respective ourcome. But I still hope it won’t happen.

      But a lot are prepared in the books to make it happen 🙁

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    194. Mihnea,

      Why can’t Fairley do the same thing you are happy that Kayne did to Thoros that is to take a character you insist in regarding it as a mistake or badly written in the books and transform it into a glorious tv experience?

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    195. dothrakian raven,

      I may have been a bit hasty there. Thoros in the books, was very ”meh” for me. So I got a pleasant supprise when I saw Paul.

      LSH is a character that I hate with every fiber in my being. To me she isn’t only a bad character and a insult to Cat’s character, but a insult to the entire story.

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    196. Mihnea,

      Elaborate please. We don’t know much about LSH (two chapters in the books, right?), and since none of us know the story of Winter, we don’t know what she will bring to the overall story. Maybe, just maybe, she has an impact that we never saw coming?

      I’m not a LSH fan per se, but if there is a time to introduce her, it’s now.

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    197. aabe,

      ‘Needed in the books in term of storylines,’ you say? LSH appeared in the prologue of Storm and was absent for the majority of feast. She didnt really have a storyline, until Brienne caught up with her. If in fact the show is bringing brienne back on track in terms of her book arc (which it looks like they’re doing) Then this should be the perfect time to meet LSH

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    198. I love Lady Stoneheart, and I think it played out really well in the books, and I look forward to how it continues.

      But please, for the love of god, don’t cram her into the show now. You’ve had the perfect opportunity and you missed it. You chose not to have her, don’t give in and add her just for the sake of it now. Please don’t. This can’t possibly do more good than bad to the story at this point.

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    199. andriakenas,

      I don’t care if she does something big, though I doubt she will do anything.
      I don’t believe for a second she’ll kill either Jaime or Brienne.

      I hate that she was revived, I think it’s a insult to Cat’s character. She should have staid dead. I hate that she was revived for many reasons, to me, it feels cheep, forced and plain bad.

      I just dislike her character completely. And hate her even more, because she killed everything I liked about Cat.
      I hate that in 3 books we see her for 2 lines. I hate that most likely she’ll end just like Quentyn did.

      I pray we won’t get her in the show.

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    200. The only story line that requires LSH would be a complicated one that involves someone relaying Bran’s vision of

      what happened at the Tower

      to her, and us getting to see how the knowledge of Ned’s true nature affects what’s left of her. Outside of this character moment, every other LSH act could be performed by anyone.

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    201. Fredo,

      That is to much. it doesn’t flow well with the story. I am still a believer that Lady Stoneheart will not be in the series. Beric can play the Stoneheart figure. They already mentioned about him losing himself each time, so he could be completely gone by now. no trial by seven anymore, straight to the hangings! Sounds like since Jamie is going to the Riverlands they are focusing on whats going on the region. Maybe the Frey’s will get theirs!

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    202. I am still not buying the LSH hype. One, never liked her for the books. It is probably the worst thing he did in the books besides Quentyn (although I do understand the Quentyn storyline). Beric can easily fill the role of LSH. I don’t think it is Arya, because Arya most likely has her own story to playout that DD are aware of. Maybe she takes a portion of the storyline, by killing a couple Frey’s, sure. Other than that, I think Arya has her own story that George planned up that she needs to finish. It isn’t Sansa! Not a chance in hell. It def. isn’t Jon, he is too far away. He also doesn’t care whats going on the riverlands at the moment. Everyone is curious who will take that role and personally I think that all the main character storylines are better and don’t need to be changed to the LSH storyline when Beric’s character can easily do that now.

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    203. Kargaryen,

      Not even to Sansa, it should simply go to Beric, he is established and the show doesn’t have to waste any time on explaining him. Where Stoneheart, there will prob have to be half an episode wasted on it.

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    204. We also heard from another source that Kaye had been involved in some sort of hanging scene. We haven’t heard any more details about Stoneheart, so it’s not clear what the circumstances of the scenes are that Kaye is involved in.

      Loads of comments, too many to read all, on what I can safely assume regards this part. It would be cool to think LS is in! Sure looks like they are taking it from the book, but last season we saw that the show has been consolidating a bunch of storylines (Sansa in WF, Jaime in Dorne) and I cannot imagine they will spread out again in S6 out of all seasons.

      It may turn out they gave Blackfish the opportunity to do some hanging. Then again, he would be at the siege. I know there’s a new band of outlaws with a leader, but they wouldn’t have Thoros I think. Bah, it could be LS but we won’t know until we see it.

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    205. Mihnea:
      andriakenas,

      I don’t care if she does something big, though I doubt she will do anything.
      I don’t believe for a second she’ll kill either Jaime or Brienne.

      I hate that she was revived, I think it’s a insult to Cat’s character. She should have staid dead.I hate that she was revived for many reasons, to me, it feels cheep, forced and plain bad.

      I just dislike her character completely. And hate her even more, because she killed everything I liked about Cat.
      I hate that in 3 books we see her for 2 lines. I hate that most likely she’ll end just like Quentyn did.

      I pray we won’t get her in the show.

      Ok, I get your point and respect your opinion.

      Just because all the reasons you just pointed out, I like the character. It shows the big downside of the R’hollor/reviving thing. All the good things about Cat is now gone, ’cause they’re messing with dark forces. And for me, I get reminded of all the reasons I liked Cat to begin with – and all the reasons i didn’t like her.

      I really hope we all get a satisfying explanation to her contribution in the overall plot. Regardless of what that is. We’ll see if we get in in the TV show or if it’s up to GRRM to give us the answers. And since we don’t know if he’ll ever finish the books, I hope D&D will give us the answer instead.

      I also “hated” that we only got a few lines from her in the last three books – and that’s why I think D&D let her out of the show in earlier seasons – the timing is much better now. But we’ll see 🙂

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    206. Answer me this, Why would Bran, Rickon, Sansa, Arya, or Jon give tw
      The waif,

      No no no, Sansa will not take over LSH role. For two reasons: one WHY WOULD SHE CARE? She needs the north first. She needs control on the north before she starts making violent changes in other Kingdoms. two

      the rumor is Sansa is with Jon, Ramsay, and Littlefinger after the battle at the end of the season, she is spotted at the battle

      .

      Oh yeah one more reason Sansa filled the Jeyne Poole role because in the books Sansa is kinda boring once she gets out of Kings Landing. Now, they are bringing Sansa back into her original book storyline. It was more intriguing this way for TV than in the books.

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    207. Dutch Maester,

      I must have missed something in the many spoiler reports, since you seem to know where the Blackfish currently is (apparently far from the Riverlands). Could you provide a link or divulge this information? If indeed, he is not in the neighbourhood, that would make LSH a bit more likely. I agree that Sansa doesn’t seem to fit the timeline (her (co)leading the Northern armies).

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    208. selena,

      I don’t know… Hanging doesn’t seem Arya’s style….

      I’m not hyping anymore though… I love Fairley too much to do it!!! I’ll assume Thoro’s leads his drunken rabble….

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    209. Luka Nieto: It’s not like that’s a rumor… That’s confirmed by the casting calls, assuming the outlaw bands described there is a corruption of the Brotherhood, which seems to be the case (“using their religion to justify their deeds”).

      I’m not saying the BwB won’t have a new leader. They will. And it will be LSH.

      LSH haters want this “new leader” to be just some random new person. That’s boring as shit.

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    210. I really don’t understand why so many fans expected LSH before Brienne and Jaime goes to the

      Riverlands. It only makes sense from now, because Edmure, the BlackFish, the Freys and the Brotherhood returning now as well.

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    211. In meting out justice/revenge for the red wedding, it should only be Catelyn/LSH.
      Only Catelyn witnessed her eldest son murdered, the total and complete betrayal of guest rules under Walder Frey’s roof. This series is full of fantasy, magic, the improbable, the IMPOSSIBLE! I’m amused by some on this website who seem indignant, miffed, even angry that some of us would dare to hope or speculate on Catelyn’s return. And yet those same posters have no qualms accepting zombies, white walkers, dragons, “warging,” giants, a huge ice wall! But LSH?? NO WAY!! Why, that’s just too out there?!?!?!?

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    212. Rory,

      I think its not the magic that annoys people, it is GRRMs overuse of fake-out deaths and resurrections (though this does not appy to the tv series as of yet). I also don’t think that you need to see your family get murdered to want revenge. Hearing the details about it, will do enough. So I don’t agree that LSH should be the only candidate to exact revenge on the Freys.

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    213. I am baffled by these comments. Neither Sansa or Jon are going to take the LSH mantle. For that matter neither is Arya or any other person who is a Stark! First I am going to breakdown why it is impossible for them too.

      Why would Sansa go south? She knows Jon is at the wall (doesn’t know he is mortally wounded). She knows Baelish will keep her safe in the Vale. She literally has NOTHING in the riverlands. She is not familiar with the Brotherhood either.

      also we know she is at the battle and in Winterfell after the battle when Wun Wun comes

      So according to all the information and her being LSH speculation this will be Sansa this season – Sansa will be running from the Boltons, go to Bear Island to meet with Davos (which is up near the wall on the NW corner of Westeros) and some how cross out of the north into the Riverlands (half a continent away cause the north is huge, all undetected) and take over the LSH role, all while going back North, getting with the Vale army and at the battle by episode 9? Absolutely impossible traveling for one season. Only Baelish can pull off such feats and he is rich! Look Sansa clearly understands she needs to find allies. She knows it is not in the Riverlands. It is other northern lords loyal to stark, jon at the wall, or Petyr in the Vale. You honestly think she is going to go exact revenge before she wins her home back? Even Robb was planning on turning around to take Winterfell back if Ramsay didn’t succeed in season 2. Also, the easiest reason why she won’t become LSH is because Sansa storyline is 10x BETTER than LSH storyline. The only reason Sansa took the Jeyne Poole storyline is because that made the show more intriguing for TV and Sansa’s storyline in the books once she leaves KL is boring.

      Jon won’t be LSH either. What does he know or care about the Frey’s? Traveling is the problem again. People are suggesting that Mel will take Jon’s body to thoros. Do you know how long that will take? His body will be decomposing by the time Mel can get Jon’s body to Thoros. Also, Jon will be completely gone after that amount of time. If Jon is to be resurrected, I think he will lose some of himself, but not all. So, here is what people are suggesting. Mel takes Jon to thoros or Jon is resurrected and takes over LSH role. the LSH role is in Riverlands, why go there? So jon at wall, to the riverlands, do LSH stuff, then somehow rally the north vs the boltons, back at winterfell by episode 9. Again, way to much. You don’t deal with the Freys before taking back Winterfell, you just don’t!

      Arya could come back to Westeros and do something that is LSHesque, she could do some minor filling in and then moving on as Arya does best.

      My points are this, the thought of jon and Sansa taking over the LSH role doesn’t make sense. The north needs to be dealt with first and I think it is obvious it won’t be by the end of the season. The traveling and storyline jumps make no sense. The goal is the north but lets take these now fan favorite characters to the Riverlands (where the Lannisters are?) Sansa would be the biggest idiot in the world, especially after everyone has said how much better she is getting with the Game.

      Three more valid points that LSH will be omitted and Sansa or Jon will not take up her storyline. One: reviving Catelyn now and then jon later or before is to much and takes away the shock. Terribly bad writing if they have two resurrections of Stark characters in one season.

      Two: this is piggybacking off my first point – Beric Dondarrion can easily fill the role. He is already established as the character. If LSH came in, half an episode would be needed to explain. Waste of time. Beric has already said a piece of him is gone each time. So he has already set-up the fact that when we see him next he may be not himself, like LSH was.

      Third: look LSH is okay and all I guess. Yeah, resurrection and revenge, but to date LSH does nothing for the storyline. Sansa and Jon are expected to have main roles for the Starks to end the show. Their storylines are SO MUCH BETTER than filling the role of LSH. LSH role will not be in the north it will be in the Riverlands, and neither of them will probably be there again in the show or book. Why take one of these great characters and put them in a role that doesn’t go anywhere, just to see them kill Frey’s? Much more important stuff to do than that.

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    214. Flayed Potatoes,

      Jon’s relationship with Ghost in the books appears different from that of Bran’s and Summer’s. Jon has wolf dreams. But he never wargs the way Bran does (and leaves his body). Instead you have passages such as “Ghost appeared beside him … The taste of hot blood filled Jon’s mouth, and he knew that Ghost had killed that night.” And”the direwolf brushed up against his fingers. For half a heartbeat the night came alive with a thousand smells, and Jon Snow heard the crack of the crust breaking on a patch of old snow.” And “Jon smelled Tom Barleycorn before he saw him. Or was it Ghost who smelled him? Of late, Jon Snow sometimes felt as if he and the direwolf were one, even awake. The great white wolf appeared first ….” I don’t recall any similar passages with Bran and Summer. Maybe all skinchangers are not the same?

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    215. dothrakian raven,

      It doesn’t make sense you are right. Everyone is forgetting about what we know about the final battle because they think some of these characters are riding around in planes or trains or something.

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    216. Mihnea:
      dothrakian raven,

      LSH is a character that I hate with every fiber in my being. To me she isn’t only a bad character and a insult to Cat’s character, but a insult to the entire story.

      zzzzzZZZZZzzzzzz

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    217. Knight of the Walkers,

      Mitch, I disagree with your assessment of introducing Coldhands earlier. If the night’s king comes for Bran. Bran and Co. will need to leave the tree. Bringing in a Coldhands then is perfect, but it could also be Benjen (fingers crossed)

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    218. Bob Warren,

      Where did you hear the glamour rumor? Havent heard that anywhere. I think the glamour wouldn’t work for the show. Yes, there is some magic in the show but this really jumps off the cliff. Why? because if Mel could do that, why didn’t she do it earlier. there were times it would have been useful. It was actually disappointing when the glamour happened in the book.

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    219. Ser Roger Sterling,

      No it doesn’t, it ruins Jon’s resurrection. even if LSH is evil and shows it. We would still have two starks resurrected in one season, I mean there has been worse writing. But for a show that is able to connect thigns and run it so smooth, this would suck.

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    220. David H,

      I think Melisandre always envisioned Stannis as the Lord of Light’s Champion but in doing so she envisioned him with a crown. Stannis can claim to be the rightful King all he wants but given that he doesn’t hold the Iron Throne, most don’t and will not acknowledge him as King until he holds the Throne. I think that this is what drives both Mel and Stannis to pursue the crown as a priority, they feel that only then will Stannis have the power to call on all Westeros’ wardens and lords to join in the fight against the real threat. He goes to the wall in part because he thinks it will be good PR, especially in the North. Here’s the only “King” who cared about the Night’s Watch, here’s the only King who cared about saving the North from an invading Wildling army. I think, in Stannis’ mind this was going to get him the support of some of the Northern lords to then take the North and subsequently march South against the Lannisters and Tyrells. I’m not sure what Mel sees in her fires, I’d imagine she sees a King leading the living against the dead and for some unknown reason she assumes this is Stannis. If somehow Jon is AA, then you could argue, assuming L+R=J, that he is in fact a King. Wasn’t he born after the deaths of the crown prince (Rhaegar), the King (Aerys) and the heir (Aegon) making him the de facto King of the Targaryen dynasty? That is assuming of course that he was a true born son. But even as a bastard, given his ancestry, Jon is simply more royal than most. He is a direct descendant of the Starks who were Kings for millions of years and he is a direct descendant of the Targaryens.

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    221. Ser Roger Sterling: I’m not saying the BwB won’t have a new leader. They will. And it will be LSH.

      LSH haters want this “new leader” to be just some random new person. That’s boring as shit.

      You understand what a casting call is? They needed a new actor. A male. To play a man named Lachlan. I’m not hating on anything. That’s just a fact. I didn’t make up that new leader; that’s a new characer confirmed for season six.

      Shy Lady Dragon,

      I didn’t even want to write the Brienne part. I think it will happen… I think maybe it should! But I don’t want it to happen 🙁

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    222. Dazor Ahai:
      It looks like they are tying up the loose plot points, I hope we see Gentry again, mainly because Joe Dempsie is so hot

      Hear, hear.
      Just think of the shirtless scenes after all that rowing.

      Seriously, come back, Gendz.

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    223. Green Chili:
      I knew it. I knew these were the hands of Thoros of Myr in the first trailer:

      http://i.imgur.com/m3i9KC0.jpg

      I tried to verify it earlier, but most of the time he was seen before he was wearing gloves…

      So I’m thinking – might this be the reason why Brienne gets on her way to the Riverlands? Because she and Melisandre know what Thoros has done before and they want him to do it again with Jon Snow?

      The logistics and geography of getting Jon’s body and Thoros together make no sense at all, but that’s clearly a man with a beard in the picture so could well be him. They’ve played fast and loose with travel before on the show, this wouldn’t be the first time.

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    224. The fervent ANTI LSH people are more annoying to me than anything else, it’s as if they revel in the fact that a character many people like and want to see included won’t ever appear. Meanwhile, I’m more angry they couldn’t have given at least one BWB member in S3 a piss colored cloak!!! 🙁

      I have come to terms that LSH could be cut and I would get over it because if there was an important part for her merry little band to play, that D&D would include in it some fashion. That idea did sadden me a bit, because it was one of the few shocking moments from the books that wasn’t spoiled (Ned Starks Death, Red Wedding) for me by trolls on the internet. I can’t recreate my feelings for reading that scene in Storm, it was one of the few times I had some hope when everyone I liked was pretty much getting shat on.

      The real problem I think with that story really is that it wouldn’t work on screen so early, that character IMO couldn’t have been introduced at the end of s3 or s4, to me LS works at the end of the series and this is definitely the beginning of the end. Especially if you believe they will shorten seasons 7, and 8.

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    225. Green Chili,

      I did the same thing. Pulling up pics of Thoros to compare his hands and could only find them gloved.

      Love his character, so it will be great to see him again no matter what he’s up to.

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    226. Gayle,

      Brienne last saw Arya in the Vale. There must be a reason why she heads to Riverrun, and it seems unlikely that she hears intelligence that Arya is there. On the other hand, we know that Jaime will be heading to Riverrun, so I think it is more likely that she is trying to locate Jaime (although I wouldn’t rule out that she is trying to find Arya as well as/instead).

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    227. Mihnea:
      Ser Roger Sterling,

      I will wait for you to yell that the writers trolled you again, when you will realize she will not appear.

      Listen, even fervent anti-LSHers are now admitting that the scene has been set to bring her back. If you look at it objectively, all the chess pieces are in place BUT her. Sure, D&D could definitely zag here when we all think they’re going to zig, but it is not ridiculous for anyone to assume at this point that she *could* be coming to the show. In fact, with all the evidence, those of you on the “Nope, no way is she going to be on the show” just look like you’re being stubborn for the sake of being stubborn.

      If she is not included, I certainly won’t think D&D are trolling the fans, I will just think that they left her out for their own reasons. Either, they found a better way to tell the story or MF didn’t want to come back and so they dropped it. I am of the opinion that D&D have pretty good instincts. For every mistake they make (the whole Dornish plot being the biggest) they do at least 3 really smart things for the story (leaving out Griff/Young Griff, Quentyn and PENNY).

      I trust that they love this saga enough that they want to present it in the best and most exciting way possible. If that includes LSH, I know that they will tailor her part of the story to fit in really well with the overarching plot. We’re in the home stretch now – they’re not just going to be putting throwaway storylines into the few hours they have left. I kind of side-eyed my TV when Jorah got grayscale last season but it must be important to the end game so I will reserve judgement until we see how it plays out. You anti-LSHers should do the same *if* she does end up showing up. It could make for some really good TV!

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    228. I’m willing to bet they give the LSH storyline to Sansa. Maybe the hanging is one of the first on her Revenge Tour 2016.

      Actually bringing LSH to the fold would diminish Jon’s resurrection tremendously.

      So glad yesterday was the last Sunday with no Thrones for a few months.

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    229. Jason:

      So glad yesterday was the last Sunday with no Thrones for a few months.

      Me too. Unfortunately the ten weeks will just fly by.
      But they will be wonderful.

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    230. There is one major problem with delaying Jon’s rez, and that is him turning into a Wight, therefore perhaps Mel’s job is to create some magic ward keeping the power of the WW at bay while also preserving his body for the trip to the RL. I like the Thoros angle so whomever thought of it first, kudos.

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    231. Be still my beating (stone) heart…

      The LSH reveal has always been one of my favourite twists in the book series, so I was gutted when it became apparent that the showrunners weren’t doing it (I think whatever happens at this point, we are not going to witness LSH’s actual resurrection). I am in two minds about it now. I can’t deny that I’m hyped to think she might finally appear after all these years, but on some level I think I’d be just as happy if they omitted the character and incorporated her role into other plotlines. I’m also pretty worried that what could have been a really jaw-dropping moment at the end of season 3/at some point in season 4 will have a much worse impact now, especially with a certain other resurrection that is widely anticipated this season. However, if it does happen, it can still be done well, and if they can tie LSH into The Other Resurrection, that will be perfect in my opinion.

      All this aside, though, I am really excited that Thoros, the Blackfish and some of the rest of the crew of the SS Abandoned Plotlines are finally returning to the action. I’m really looking forward to seeing what the BWB are up to this season, with or without LSH.

      r-hard:
      Green Chili,

      Nope. That’s Edd.

      This is my feeling as well. The sleeves really do look like they belong to someone wearing Night’s Watch clothes, and I think the ‘beard’ could just as easily be long hair.

      The sleeves don’t look anything like anything we’ve seen Thoros wearing. That’s not to say that it definitely isn’t or can’t be him – characters can change their clothes after all 😛 – but I still don’t think that it is.

      I do like the idea that Thoros is involved in Jon’s resurrection, though – so I’m keeping an open mind.

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    232. Ghosts Lunch: I look at LS as a rather excellent way of exploring how a thirst for revenge just leads to a downward spiral and to hatred where everything is destroyed, eg where does it stop and this of course is how we descend into terrible cycles of war crimes

      I agree 100% with this. I feel that, while some character getting revenge for some past injustice gives the reader/viewer a momentary rush of gratification, as a basis for a narrative arc it seems cheap, shallow and frankly overdone. Good writers, in my view, take revenge stories at least a step or two further than that emotional payoff and also depict the terrible price to be paid for “getting even,” at the expense of a character’s (or a society’s) integrity.

      My sense of where GRRM is coming from, ethically, is that he has thought such things through, and will not build a flimsy happy ending on a bonepile of vengeance accomplished by our heroes. But I think that there is room in the (still admittedly hypothetical) LSH narrative for redemption and moral evolution, and I see Arya as the one whose “soul” and future peace of mind can still be saved by dropping the burden of her compulsion to kill. Being the one to end her once-mother’s reign of terror in an act of mercy could show her how futile it is to just go on avenging and avenging.

      And that is the one role for LSH that no other character can persuasively take up if she is left out of the TV version, in my view. Without that crisis, it seems to me that Arya is destined to go on being a mindless killing machine until her “list” is exhausted – and then what does she have left to live for? I love her too much to want to see her story end that way. I want her to find a “bittersweet” peace with herself.

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    233. Not Today: the rest of the crew of the SS Abandoned Plotlines

      Love this image! They are all squatting shipwrecked on some desert island somewhere, their clothes in tatters, waiting in vain for D & D to rescue them.

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    234. tyjon:
      There is one major problem with delaying Jon’s rez, and that is him turning into a Wight, therefore perhaps Mel’s job is to create some magic ward keeping the power of the WW at bay while also preserving his body for the trip to the RL.

      I think that Maester Aemon’s quote, “Fire consumes, but cold preserves,” may be relevant here. We already know that the Wall has a massive built-in refrigeration system. I don’t see them being able to take Jon’s corpse thousands of leagues to the Riverlands without him rotting, but it might be stored without significant deterioration while someone else with the power to rezz comes to him. Whether it’s by Mel’s magic, weirnet magic or warging into Ghost just before death, there are several potential plausible explanations for Jon not turning into a wight while he’s hanging out in the meat locker.

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    235. Firannion: Love this image!They are all squatting shipwrecked on some desert island somewhere, their clothes in tatters, waiting in vain for D & D to rescue them.

      Haha! I wish I could take credit for the image 😉

      http://i.imgur.com/17Ezbc8.jpg

      Interesting to note that all apart from Gendry (and Beric, who may well have died off-screen by this point) will apparently be in Season 5! Well, someone has to keep rowing the boat I guess…

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    236. Chod:
      What if arya towards the end of the season via a faceless mask takes the stone heart role?

      I can’t help but feel that if they were going to do something quite that shark-jumpy, they might as well just do the LSH storyline as written and have done with it.

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    237. Not Today: Haha! I wish I could take credit for the image

      http://i.imgur.com/17Ezbc8.jpg

      Interesting to note that all apart from Gendry (and Beric, who may well have died off-screen by this point) will apparently be in Season 5! Well, someone has to keep rowing the boat I guess…

      I forgot that there was an actual picture to go with this! I was just talking about the mental image that the phrase conjures up. It’s brilliant, whoever first coined it, and deserves a life in pop culture far beyond GoT. Kudos to you for helping to keep the leaky little boat afloat.

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    238. I said RW aftermath – y’know, in the days immediately ‘after’-wards, say, toasting their new allienace with a few Lannister troops, gloating while the violated bodies of Cat and Robb were still in situ.

      But yes, the much liklier scenario is that this is a post-Rivverun back-slapping exercise before some heavy retributional shit aligns with Walder’s fan.

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    239. Luka Nieto,

      I know you didn’t want it to happen and you wrote it only considering it might be a good solution for the story. I admire your objectivity. I never even try to speculate because I know I would be too influenced but my wishes for the characters… which are frequently against the benefit of the story.

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    240. So do we not think the Blackfish is locked up in Riverrun? If that’s true, he can’t fill the LSH storyline.
      I for one think it would be fun to have her on the show, as long as they make her scene creepy AF. Plus, even though she hasn’t done much in the book, it’s implied pretty heavily that there would be big consequences because of her, I want to see what comes of it all.
      Also- If they do use LSH, do you think D&D messed up by saying they weren’t going to use her? Don’t you think a lot of people figured they’d read about her since she isn’t being used? It’s pretty widely reported in popular media that her storyline was scrapped.

        Quote  Reply

    241. I always try to remember that “most” of the viewers of GoT’s are not book readers and do not come to any fan sites for GoT’s.

      To them….and even taken from the book….

      Catelyn Stark has a gaping hole in her throat, face riddled like melted wax almost to the bone from eyes to chin and was tossed in the river naked for about three days from the time of the RW and then dragged out of the river by Nymeria, to be brought back by Berek/Thoros, IIRC.

      Picture this in your head. In the book GRRM says that LSH can only warble basically, she didn’t talk in the sense we would think of holding a conversation and there was no more Catelyn left, just a vengeful zombie basically. Those are the realities of the book. Imagine after three years bringing that into the plot.

      Yes My Queen Lady Nymeria
      It was me and I still stand by that assessment. In the Westeros gift shop there is a Lady Stark/LSH Pez dispenser, for good reason.

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    242. Ser Roger Sterling,

      Yes. Sansa Stoneheart ZZZZZZZZZZ

      And also bad writing.. Which means it’s possible considering that we had to sit through the snoozefest of Brienne waiting for a candle and Jaime and Bronn in Dorne looking like Abbott and Costello.
      Either those 2 plot-lines were in a holding pattern biding time for a big payoff (LSH) or the writing has seriously gone downhill.
      While we’re at it, why don’t we have Missandei save the say and ride in on Drogon?

        Quote  Reply

    243. I wonder why the casting of Paul Kaye remained a secret until yesterday.

      They openly announced the return of the Blackfish, Edmure, Walder Frey, Asha (a.k.a Yara) Balon etc.

      What possible reason could there be for failing to mention the return of Thoros of Myr?

      He managed to film his scenes without being noticed.

      Maybe someone else did the same.

      Can’t wait to shut the LS haters up.

        Quote  Reply

    244. Conan,

      Yes, I like that scenario as most plausible. Thoros shows up at the wall, discouraged because the BwB has fallen into evil and he separates on his own path. I like it!

        Quote  Reply

    245. JCDavis,

      And there’s no way they could change that in the show.
      The Lord of Light could resurrect the dead. I think the could take a few liberties with LSH’s appearance.

        Quote  Reply

    246. Jarl Stark,

      Would have been neat to have done the LSH story in season 5 and have her give her remaining life to resurrect JS like Beric had done for her. Since she was a crappy step mom and all.

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    247. well the show made the mistake of putting the BwoB on Arya’s hit list, so it would be extremely lame if Thoros’s return is only for Arya to kill him (assuming she makes it back to Westeros this season)

        Quote  Reply

    248. Sean C.,

      Very interesting article; I love hearing from these young actors and learning how they see things I also feel protective of them – I’ve seen them grow up on the screen and have such hope for good things for them.

        Quote  Reply

    249. Laura,

      I love how all the anti-LSH people always talk about us pro-LSHers like *we’re* the unhinged ones. Look at your life. Look at your choices

      I don’t think anyone is unhinged. Im just tired of arguing about her. If she was going to appear it would have been several seasons ago. If it happens I won’t complain but it will seem strange. Im hoping that others will take her place, as mentioned by others.

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    250. Never have seen anyone comment about Cat’s scene with Talisa. Its her story about asking the gods to let Jon live. (“let him live and I’ll be a mother to him”)
      Perhaps somehow they will link about resurrections?

        Quote  Reply

    251. I will laugh so hard if the show introduces LSH 🙂 I’m not invested in it either way but those who insist others are ridiculous for thinking she’s making an appearance this late in the game will be able to tell them, and us innocent bystanders how crow tastes 🙂

      IF they do bring her character in it will be nice if she makes atonement to Jon. I would love if she gave her 2nd life for his. That said, I really don’t see how they’re going to squeeze her in, what with everything we know right now.

        Quote  Reply

    252. Knight of the Walkers:
      Gayle,

      Brienne last saw Arya in the Vale. There must be a reason why she heads to Riverrun, and it seems unlikely that she hears intelligence that Arya is there. On the other hand, we know that Jaime will be heading to Riverrun, so I think it is more likely that she is trying to locate Jaime (although I wouldn’t rule out that she is trying to find Arya as well as/instead).

      Though I believe your conclusion is correct (Brienne is sent after Jaime, not Arya), that’s a bit of faulty thinking. Yes, Arya was technically in the Vale last time Brienne saw her… but she was in the road out of the Vale, which heads to the Riverlands.

        Quote  Reply

    253. Nadia,

      Im on that crazy train for L.S.H. put the book aside (which i read later after watching season two ) and remember embarking on the trials and tribulations of such and perhaps the only honourable house from the very beginning of season one. House Stark. I followed Ned around as the hero for which his character and personality deserves such title. Thinking that all his goodness and nobility would some how be rewarded in his efforts only to have been slapped in the face with a spiked bat lit on fire. Im not exaggerating i cried when his head went flying off. No no no my friends what is this? So surely i thought once the shock wore off and i was able to form more coherent thoughts. Justice yes yes justice will prevail. Rob yes hope. And hope after hope i have been betrayed. I have watched that entire house my House Stark that entire family demolish and scattered away by injustice. My mouth is watering for Justice. I need my L.S.H. its only right man its only right

        Quote  Reply

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