Another season – arguably the best one of them all! – is in the books, and what better and more time-honored way to salute its passing than by looking back to its many strengths (and weaknesses) and looking forward to the season that is to come? Come pull up your chair and grab your last cup of mead for the final sixth-season-centric roundtable here at the Wall.
(Sue, our fearless leader, didn’t participate in our murder – it’s almost as if she had her own predictions article already in mind or something.)
Please to enjoy our post-mortem… and then strap in for the long, long wait with what we’re sure will be a whole long string of seventh-season examinations and considerations.
Now that we’ve had several days to process everything, lay all your thoughts about season six on me. Did you like the season? Did you think it was demonstrably different from the previous, by-the-books (heh) seasons? Was there anything that didn’t work for you?
And while you’re at it, why don’t you also throw in your season seven predictions/hopes/thoughts/prayers, as well?
Other than some slightly strange character decisions (Arya blithely allowing herself to be stabbed multiple times, lookin’ at you!), this was, for me, the best Game of Thrones season yet, continuing their tradition of one-upping themselves each season.
(Except season five. We do not talk about season five.)
(I’m kidding. Season five was fine. Except for a few, you know, things. “Hardhome” was brilliant.)
So, yeah. This was the best season so far. I think the biggest difference from the book will be Margaery’s demise, since Cersei already burned the Tower of the Hand in the books, which is all she needs to do to tip her intent to attempt to raze King’s Landing (which I believe she will do in both the books and on the show).
I’m very hopeful the momentum continues forward. As for what I expect, I expect Dany & co. to sweep across Tommen’s Landing from the south (though Khaleesi may take a more direct, dragon-backed route), and for Cersei to plot a scorched-Earth tactic that Jaime will ultimately be forced to stymie. Jaime kills Cersei, and possibly himself, and my wee Lannister-loving heart weeps. I imagine Tyrion will get at least one more conversation with Cersei. Because come on.
I think the Wall is breached this season, as well (R.I.P. Edd), in part due to the fact that Bran has given the Night’s King license to follow him wherever he goes. Bran will reunite with Jon, because he will need to pass on the vital information of Jon’s birth. Sansa will rankle beneath the White Wolf’s rule, but ultimately I believe blood is thicker than Littlefinger’s schemes, so hopefully that works out. (Littlefinger’s not done, however – not by a long shot.) I don’t think Jonsa is happening, at least not in a romantic way.
Brienne will get a heroic death, probably at or near the season seven finale, near the time Jaime dies, as well (so they can, you know, tie them together somehow from afar).
Arya will put her sword through Melisandre’s eye. Gendry won’t return ’til season eight. Calling my shot here.
Ghost will survive.
I absolutely loved season six! I’ll admit my enthusiasm partially stems from the fact that it was the first season I watched from the beginning along with everyone else. But even from a critical standpoint, I think this was an excellent season. It paid off five seasons of build-up and left the characters poised for an exciting season seven.
It feels like, now that David and Dan know the show will have to eclipse the books, they’re almost giddy, going down a checklist of theories, reveals, and fan wishes: Melisandre’s age, “Hodor’”s origin, Gravedigger confirmation, Ramsay’s death, R+L=J confirmation, Manderly/Stark pies, and Daenerys finally setting sail. I understand why some people called it fan service, but I, personally, loved it.
On the flip side, I was disappointed with Arya’s storyline and the way Jon’s resurrection had no consequences. I also think the show continues to have a confused relationship with violence. On the one hand, we see the un-romanticized horror of battle during the Battle of the Bastards and the long-term consequences of trauma in Sansa and Theon’s stories. On the other hand, Sandor chopping up those brotherhood without banners members was played for laughs, and that shot of the decapitated Son of the Harpy head flying towards us plays the brutality up for entertainment.
All in all, the flaws just weren’t enough to compromise the season’s strengths for me.
Next season, I’m looking forward to an Avengers-esque team-up of Targaryens, Martells, Tyrell, Greyjoys, and Dothraki. The prospect alone of a war council consisting of Daenerys, Tyrion, Missandei, Grey Worm, Varys, Yara, Theon, and Olenna bickering will be what keeps me going until next spring.
Nate:
Agree completely. This season was spectacular and advanced the plot much quicker than I anticipated.
The crew’s endless efforts truly paid off, and they were absolutely right to brag about the best they’d done before the premiere had even aired.
The cast was equally impressive, as I was blown away by Lena Headey, Kit Harington, Maisie Williams, and Sophie Turner. Definitely going to be another season of Game of Thrones Emmy sweeps.
Lastly, shout out to directors Jack Bender and Miguel Sapochnik for their outstanding episodes.
There really is nothing else on TV like GOT, and this season put them even more above the rest.
I thought season six was fantastic. There were very few missteps and a lot of exciting moments, both expected and unexpected. The high point of the season, for me, was “Hold the Door” – thrilling, brilliant, and gut-wrenchingly emotional all at once. I also loved everything about “The Battle of the Bastards.” The only thing that didn’t work for me was the resolution of Arya’s time in Braavos; it suffered from some shoddy writing and real ham-fisted direction. But her act of revenge at the end of the season mostly made up for it.
I think the biggest difference from earlier seasons is how quickly storylines converged and plot lines resolved. Part of that is just that they are coming towards the end, of course, but part of it is being completely freed from George’s oftentimes-ponderous plotting.
As for what I hope to see in season seven, I really want to see Jon find out about his true parentage. The Tower of Joy was surprisingly anti-climactic for me; it was kinda just like, “Okay, finally.” It was great to get confirmation of R+L=J, but I’m ready to see how it will ultimately affect the story.
I am generally in agreement with what has been said so far. A strong, fantastic, enjoyable season – easily the best one so far. While the concluding two episodes were spectacular, the highlight of the season for me was the unexpected “hold the door” moment.
Things that didn’t work? Well, Dorne was very shoddy, but I can forgive that in light of the subplot undergoing a necessary clean-up – a big red reset button was pressed there. I also wished for a steeper price to be paid for Jon’s resurrection, and, yes, Arya got stabbed way too brutally for the rest of her Braavos plot to really work (or, rather, for me to easily suspend my disbelief).
As others mentioned, the plot progressed very quickly at certain points, and definitely quicker the closer we got to the end of the season. I don’t mind that, as long as the pace slows down a bit going forward – not so much as in fewer things happening, but as in making sure that the moments really are deserved and motivated by the characters’ inner workings, rather than plot necessities. I’m looking forward to the invasion, but also to some twists that will make it an exciting affair.
I loved this season! The emotional high points were the “hold the door” scene and the reunion of Jon and Sansa. I was really surprised at how much Hodor’s sacrifice affected me. Production values were off the charts. After “The Watchers on the Wall” and “Hardhome,” last season, I didn’t think they could go beyond that, but they did. “Battle of the Bastards” more than exceeded my expectations, not only with the battle in the north, but also with improved flying visual effects with Dany.
Things that I didn’t really like were Arya’s miraculous recovery after severe abdominal wounds and the pacing of the last episode. Arya’s recovery made no sense in light of other stabbings that resulted in death on the show, like Areo Hotah. In regards to the pacing, we have moved slowly for five seasons and then, in this finale, we went to warp speed. I am happy that the story has progressed forward, but it just seemed strange to me… as if they had been holding back prior to this, but no longer feel restrained.
I’m hoping that Jon and the rest of Westeros learns of his true parentage, and I’m looking forward to the emotional and political fallout that results. I also want to see Arya reunited with her siblings, but I realize that might not ever happen. Also, I’m looking forward to Dany finally arriving in Westeros.
I’m really interested to see if Arya takes on the Lady Stoneheart mantle next season. As of the end of season six, she’s making good on her promise to kill those who wronged her family, and she’s currently in the riverlands. Furthermore, Melisandre (who told Arya that they would meet again back in season three) is heading south, the Hound is back with the brotherhood without banners, and Brienne survived the siege of Riverrun, which Arya could easily misinterpret as treason.
Oh, and speaking of Arya’s Stark pie scene, did anyone else notice some lovely symmetry in the deaths this season? Roose Bolton got a “The Lannisters send their regards”-style stab in the heart, Walder Frey’s throat was sliced a la Catelyn Stark, and Ramsay Bolton was eaten alive by the very dogs he fed Walda, Tansy, and countless others to.
I loved this season! I thought it was a vast improvement on season five, which was really shoddy at times, in my opinion (I mean, a limp season of Game of Thrones is still excellent TV, but – seven hells – I’m glad we got Dorne sorted out this year. Far too much bad pussy).
I was initially a little apprehensive about seeing where the show would go off-book, but my worries have been mostly unfounded. This series was a heady blend of unexpected plot twists and book-theory confirmation: R+L=J, Frey Pie, Hodor’s origin. Arya’s storyline was a little confused for me this season, which is a shame, as I normally love her plots, and, frankly, I’m still not over her replacing House Manderly for the pie scene, but that’s a bit of a specific gripe! I am very intrigued to see where season seven takes us. This season felt a lot like it was cleaning up some of the dangling plot threads left over from the previous years, and I feel like it’s built a good, solid foundation from which to go forward. I was initially shocked at how many key players have been killed off this year, but I’m hoping it makes for a tight, streamlined couple of concluding seasons as we rush headlong into the finale.
My main hope for season seven is that Samwell and Gilly have a nice family day out at the library. I just want my favourite couple to be happy. Sorry – should have said my favourite couple that isn’t Daenerys and Yara.
Any time something leaves you wanting more, it should deservedly be categorized as a success. A man thinks we can check that box as the next nine-and-a-half months (or longer) may be the most painful we have ever been forced to endure.
For the most part, I concur with my fellow contributors on all points made above (other than the book-reader stuff, of which I have no knowledge). One of my personal highlights was the plethora of character returns the showrunners gave us. Granted, many of those returning stars were brought back to suffer prompt, unfortunate deaths (Blackfish, Osha, Rickon, etc.), but at least we were given some closure. However, I’m most pumped about the return of the brotherhood. Richard Dormer and Paul Kaye back in the mix gives me hope for the future, and the Hound most certainly returned if for no other reason than to make Westeros great again.
The entire season was beautifully shot and included some of the best landscapes and visuals we have seen from the show. Most notably for me were Bear Island, Oldtown, the dragons at Slaver’s Bay, and the Battle of the Bastards. Of course, there were the missteps (the Waif’s manufacturer-defective blade presumably retracting to only partially pierce Arya) and, of course, Dorne (which apparently continues to be the portion of the show designated to the HBO interns). But there were undeniably far more positives than negatives, and the show production continues to set itself apart from anything else on television.
As for season seven predictions, I’ll save those for off-season “Looking Forward.” But I’ll throw this out there: for all of the Baelish death-wishers, Littlefinger won’t be croaking anytime soon. He is the quintessential fly in the ointment, or, more appropriately, the mockingbird in the Winterfell worm shack.
Previous Murders
Should Game of Thrones be boycotted forever more?
“The Wars to Come,” season five, and you
King in the Noooorth!!!!
Really”looking forward” to Oz’s Looking Forward for season 7! Will really help with the looonnnngggg drought that will be, waiting for next season. I LOVED season 6, the best one yet for me! The writing was OK some episodes and great in others. Arya was the only disappointment for me, but made up for it in Winds of Winter. Battle of the Bastards and The Winds of Winter are why I fell in love with GoT, the BEST damn TV show ever!
Overall, Season 6 was a fantastic season. Was it the best? Difficult to answer really. I’d probably say no, because episodes 6-8 were a pretty average stretch. Bryan Cogman standards have really dropped since Season 3, and I would rank Dave Hill over him now. If there are only 7 episodes next year I hope he only writes one episode, because his episodes are some of the poorest these days.
My rankings would be 4>6>5>1>3>2, but it is pretty tough, because all six seasons have been excellent.
I do agree that the Arya plot was the weakest this season, and it is a shame that Mark Mylod is returning next year as I do feel that the fault lies mainly with him (although the writing was below par too).
It seems strange that people are still bringing up Dorne, which only had two scenes this year (one of which was fantastic), but fair enough. They made the right decision to cut back on it this season.
I’m definitely glad they killed off a lot of the dead wood this season e.g. Roose Bolton, Areo Hotah, Doran Martell, The Blackfish, Mace Tyrell, Kevan Lannister, Osha, Rickon Stark etc. A few of these characters should never have been introduced in the first place, but it was definitely time for them all to depart (I don’t feel any of the characters who died had more to give) as the show needs to move onto more important things. I would be astonished if George finishes the series in seven books as the plot has become way too convoluted and character-dense. For all their faults, D&D understand that the show can only work with a limited number of characters, and I’m happy that because of them we will get an ending to this series.
Axey writes: “I think the Wall is breached this season, as well (R.I.P. Edd), in part due to the fact that Bran has given the Night’s King license to follow him wherever he goes.” Sorry, but that’s not established fact; that’s conjecture. It could have been a one-time occurrence. The Night King’s handprint might not be something permanent like the Dark Mark brand in Harry Potter; it might be more like a frost burn that can heal over time. You might be right, but we simply do not know, as yet.
Littlefinger Morghulis! I’m looking forward to his death more than anyone on the show.
And yes, Ghost must survive.
Excellent points by everyone! I’m really glad this season was almost universally loved (For me it’s 6>4>5=3>1>2)
I was blown away by Kit Harington’s acting this season. Jon has always been my favourite character because of his extremely interesting plot, but now he has become my favourite character because of Kit’s marvellous portrayal in season 5 and especially in season 6. I really wish he gets nominated for an Emmy this year. His acting in episodes 3, 9 and 10 made me cry like a baby and cheer like the craziest football fan.
As many have already said, the one thing that didn’t work for me this season was Arya’s stabbing-recovering-running scenes. Apart from that, which I consider a really small detail when compared to the epicness of the season, everything else was amazing. My unsullied boyfriend, mum, dad and 5+ friends think this is the best season BY FAR and I wholeheartedly agree.
Here’s to the long wait for season 7!
Firannion,
My understanding of the hand Mark thing is that it broke the magical barrier around the tree because Bran was within that barrier WHILE Bran was within that barrier. So I’ve never felt that Bran’s going South would give the Night King the ability to go beyond the Wall, unless he mentally grabbed him WHILE Bran was on the other side of the Wall.
Arya storyline was certainly the weakest one this year. That blindness cliffhanger last year was very dumb, and spending the first two episodes of the season with Arya doing nothing felt like a waste of time. I really liked everything with the play and Lady Crane, tho. And even though I thought the stabbing in S6E7 was over the top, at least it brought those last moments with Crane. And darn it, I liked that chase scene! Well shot and exciting. Maybe unrealistic but honestly, I buy that a combination of getting her wounds worked on, a day of rest, fear for her life, and adrenaline go a long way to explaining her abilities in that scene. And her wounds did eventually open up, and she was clearly in pain by the end.
I just feel that the storyline could have been tightened up by a couple episodes. If Arya’s last material with the Faceless Men was more of a 4 or 5 episode arc as opossed to a 7 episode arc (less time spent blind and no stabbing cliffhanger) it would have been a lot stronger.
Rhaenys Stark,
While I so hope Kit gets a nomination, I don’t feel so sure about it 🙁 . The Emmy’s likes to keep repeating the same nominees through the years. And I feel a Peter Dinklage nomination is almost guaranteed. The question is can Kit get a second nomination?
Areo Hotah being stab was very quick but again the Sand Snakes use poison on their blades so one could expect a quicker death especially if he was stabbed in the heart.
Totally agree with Oz’s LF predictions. LF ain’t going anywhere. S1 scene between he and Varys in the throne room had WAY too much foreshadowing in it for them not to meet up and face off again even if that only means the people they back. Varys isn’t in it to sit on the throne himself which is why ulitimately, his team will win. I think LF goes back to KL to “back” Cersei in word, not deed. Why? Jon and Dany will end up allies. They are family. I think Jon ultimately saves the realm from WWs and Dany sits atop the throne when all is said and done.
A true GRRM ending would be Dany on Drogon, Jon on the White Dragon, and Bran warging into the green dragon because he’s a green seer and them saving the realm but having to die as well as the WWs, and LF sweeping in to KL to sit atop the throne. That to me, would be the most GRRM way to end things.
Isn’t it the Night King? Not the Night’s King. Pet peeve of mine.
There is no white dragon. Drogon is black and Viserion and Rhaegal are shades of green and red.
Arya is my favorite character, so I may be a little biased, but I actually loved her storyline this season. Her scenes with Jaquen, Lady Crane, and the Waif were excellent, and Maisie Williams is always a joy to see onscreen. As for her stabbing, I watch a lot of tv shows where characters survive even worse injuries, so her surviving didn’t really bother me. I was more bothered that she was able to undergo that chase while recovering from her injuries. However, forgiving that, the chase was well shot and suspenseful, and the ending perfect. Her final scene with Jaquen was one of my favorite scenes from the season. I hope it’s not the last we see of him.
Agreed. I do wonder who who healed her wounds again on the way to the Twins though? Her stab wounds were obviously reopened during the chase scene, so I guess there was a medic on the way back to Westeros?
ghost of winterfell,
Yes I don’t think it’s very possible either but he definitely deserves at least a nomination. Tyrion didn’t have anything spectacular to do this season (except for episodes 2 and 10), and while Peter is obviously great, he got his award last year. Hopefully we won’t get too disappointed with the nominations this Thursday… The whole cast deserves more recognition in terms of acting awards.
Young Dragon,
This.
Davos survived worst.
I agree about the Arya stabbing. UNLESS…and this could be put in for Season 7, she was wearing some kind of prop that would bleed. That would make the waif far too sure of herself and eventually easy to kill. Arya seemed awfully vulnerable and very unlike herself in that scene. Notice that the actress didn’t freak out which probably would have happened had the stabbings been deeper. So the wounds might not have been that bad.
As for the rest, I think the producers will take their time in terms of resolving a lot of the issues. They usually save the bloodbaths for the end of each season. Also, recall that this is more like one somewhat longer last season that is cut in half. So we
are really near the end. I don’t think Cersei will die all that easily. She’s too good a character; she’s really the engine that makes a lot of plot happen. I doubt she would go before the last show of the season and maybe even into Season 8.
Like everyone else, I agree that Dorne is a waste. However, remember that we needed to have them supporting Dany. They had been allies of the Lannisters before this…not the Marcylla was essentially a hostage but one set to marry the heir to the throne.Somehow that had to get in and I would guess that the Dorne scenes took up less than a half hour over the past two seasons, a tiny percentage.
Littlefinger will play a major part but I don’t know how. But he has to realize that Cersei would not be happy with him and that Dany would probably have no use for him. In point of fact, he’s not of one of the great houses, except through his control of Robyn Arryn.
I would like to see Jamie wind up with Brienne for a while. Both deserve some pleasure.
All of you pretty much spoke for me: I think this season is the best by far (my current rating: 6-4-5-3-1-2 fwiw) I loved the condensed plotlines and arcs, loved the acting and most of the writing, the CGI was out of this world, and I found myself thinking about each episode long after they were finished. I loved how Dany is finally off to Westerous, how Jamie and Cersei are in one place, as is Sansa, Jon and LF. Im hoping that Sam meets up with Jorah, and they learn enough to fight the WW. Loved Hodors scene, BofB, Ramsey’s end and the Sept sequence. Like you I had my problems with Arya’s run (and thought Waif looked ridiculous) but liked how it all ended. The Frey thing had some logistical problems (howd she kill and carve with no one noticing.) but still cheered it. Its going to be a long winter for us but we’ll keep warm with rewatchings and more posts like this one.
Arya’s plot was ruined, except for Frey pie. How did D&D take the honourable House of Black&White and turn it into a murder-for-hire outfit?? And having her get stabbed unaware made her into a stupid character. I think they should have had her get on a ship immediately and have the Waif follow her to Westeros – that would have been cool. She’s being hunted as she is hunting Frey etc. She would think everyone was a Faceless Man and that would have been interesting – even driving her a bit mad.
Minor:
And why didn’t Rickon weave and bob a bit as he ran down the field? And why the heck wouldn’t they have put armor galore on their biggest asset – the giant? A helmut, armor and for gods’ sakes, arm him with a big ball and chain or something!!!! What the hell??
But a great season and so glad to see the big boom. I hope Septa Ulena survives for ‘quite a while’ – just despised her for some reason
The only body part in the pie were fingers, so it’s more than feasible she was able to kill them and chop up their hands. Of course their entire bodies weren’t in that tiny piece of pie. Not possible. Arya is more than capable of chopping up some fingers though. That’s all that were in those pies. Fingers.
I don’t think that Bran’s mark will bring down the wall. He has been set up as the one who can save the realm from the White Walkers from his knowledge and training with Bloodraven etc. so why would he be the one to put it in danger in the first place? Otherwise he could’ve just died earlier in the story. The Night King wouldn’t have been able to mark him, therefore no threat, doesn’t make sense to me…
I agree with most of what has been said about the season in general, this would have been the best season so far if it wasn’t for the average (if not slightly below par) episodes 6-8. I also think the secondary and tertiary characters were exceptional this year in terms of acting I.e Meera, the Blackfish, Lyanna M, Davos and I could go on all day!
I guess my rankings now are something like 4>1=6>3>2>5
I had a lot of gripes with this season.
I just felt like the plot felt too linear and overly simplified.
Jon’s revival felt rushed, and then glossed over.
The much anticipated showdown between the Boltons and the Starks ended in a very telegraphed little finger cheat code.
Tyrion’s political machinations in Meereen amounted to talking to a red priestess and then telling slavers they could only have slavery for 7 more years.
Arya’s storyline was kinda butchered and the House of Black and White amounted to pretty much nothing.
Thats not to say the season was bad.
It was actually excellent…
“The Winds of Winter” in particular was a sheer masterpiece and marks the finest hour of television I have ever seen.
Jack Bauer 24,
I really like this explanation. Cutting their entire bodies in little pieces is too much of a sadistic psychopath kind of behaviour. Wouldn’t want Arya to go that dark…
Tootie,
Stop with these lies mate. It’s not the first time you say this.
The Faceless Man kill for gold in the books too.
Complain as much as you want, but don’t lie….
Jack Bauer 24,
Yeah, I thought that too at first, then she says how hard it was to carve them. But you are most likely right
Jack Bauer 24,
I think it’s relatively simple that she could’ve lured Black Walder and Lothar in turn to a secluded location, perhaps outside the Twins, murder them, carve off a few lumps, stash the bodies or shove them into the river, then cook up a few Frey pies early in the morning with the meat and fingers she’d carved, either while the kitchens were quiet or while they’re busy, hiding in plain sight.
The best? I thought season 6 was refreshingly good compared to season 5 which I didn’t like at all but tbh I still prefer the first season to any other season. I rewatched it the other day and it’s just so organic and they take their time with scenes like the exchange of war stories between Robert, Barristan Selmy and Jaime or the way Dany slowly comes into her own or the chats Tyrion is having up at the wall… It’s all very subjective, obviously. The writing, the slow build and pace, the close interaction between characters… Season 1 is the kind of show I genuinely love. The way I feel about it reminds me a lot of the LOTR Fellowship adaptation compared to TTT and ROTK.
I would like to be the first to say: one of the dragons will die in season 7. No way that all three of danaerys’ dragons survive the fight against Euron and the landing at westeros.
HelloThere,
I agree.
I also want to add that I was disappointed we didn’t get much character development for Bran. We got no reaction to Hodor and Summer’s death and the mess Bran got himself into. The show also didn’t do much with the Benjen reveal either.
I would like to be the first to say: one of the dragons will die in season 7. No way that all three of danaerys’ dragons survive the fight against Euron and the landing at westeros.
I’m really interested to see if Arya takes on the Lady Stoneheart mantle next season. As of the end of season six, she’s making good on her promise to kill those who wronged her family, and she’s currently in the riverlands.
I don’t disagree with the possibility but this Arya=LSH is tough for me to rally behind (because I don’t want Arya dead or fighting the FM).
AFFC Araya II
Arya: “Maybe.”
KM: “Then you have come to the wrong place. It is not for you to say who shall live and who shall die.”
IMO LSH can only be Cat. And Arya using FM skills for her hit list has to be some kind of abomination. Maybe Arya ends up paying for it…
Johnny braavos,
I think this season has shown that Euron will be no more than a minor character (which is what I expected tbh). He’s only going to be a secondary threat at most, but he was still an important addition to the cast because he propelled the two important Iron Islands characters (Theon and Yara) to Dany.
He was in 2 episodes this year, I doubt he will be in more than 3 next year when it is likely he will die.
Jack Bauer 24,
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Viserion
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Rhaegal
“The majority of Viserion’s scales are cream, but his horns, wing bones and spinal crest are gold colored.”
It was good again but not as strong as Seasons 1 and 3 – though still good.
The only parts I had issue with which were weak were:
1 – Dorne
2 – The entire Ramsay/Sana/Jon North storyline
This was a trend in Season 5 as well.
Dorne…at least by the end of Season 6 you realize that the writers themselves were admitting failure in Season 5, and abandoned it in Season 6. That was the right thing to do by then…..though I don’t think this excludes them from blame for letting it become a problem in the first place in Season 5.
Ramsay was overused. And it was bizarre that after setting up so much that “the lords of the North hate him and fear him and will turn on him if he is weak” there was no payoff to that. In the *same episode* he dies in, Jon snow stresses his men fear him and will abandon him….then nothing happens, and even after the gate of Winterfell is breached, his men…fight to the death?
Even Axey’s review pointed out that Rickon was underused with poor setup as just “Ramsay kills yet another character”. Rickon didn’t even have speaking lines.
And this isn’t beginning to address the Sansa stuff. No, it wasn’t “satisfying” to have Sansa oversee his execution….given that the TV writers are the ones who set that up in the first place. This is why…every TV show, movie, or comic doesn’t have the villain rape the female lead. Because it’s cheap writing. Even back in Season 5, yeah we *assumed* Ramsay would die eventually and Sansa would be there to watch over it — did the writers seriously think that this makes up for poor plot structure?
I mean, in Star Wars, Kylo Ren doesn’t threaten to rape Rey….he doesn’t need to in order to be an effective villain.
I don’t know, but even *ignoring* the Sansa elements totally, Ramsay was an over-used Villain Sue, and it was…bizarre, that all of his betrayals had no payoff (why bother having that setup scene in Season 5 of Lord Cerwyn getting flayed, and Roose berating him for his short-sightedness?) Where was the payoff to any of this? What? “Ramsay’s brutality to Sansa comes back to destroy him”? Well…no. Sansa would have gotten Littlefinger to lead an army against Ramsay regardless of whether he raped her or not. In contrast, it was sort of a “thematic point” that Ramsay keeps betraying so many people, like the other Northern Houses, who didn’t quite hate him before but sure hate him now after his ridiculous cruelty.
Dorne at least they sort of admitted it wasn’t working – in contrast, Ramsay’s death they put forward as their Emmy nomination? Ahead of the Hodor episode or the great season finale?
So:
1 – They should have either planned out Dorne better, or more probably, just not included it back in Season 5 (we know it was squeezed in at the last minute, no surprise).
2 – Benioff and Weiss over-used Ramsay Bolton, and anything touching his storyline suffered (Stannis, Sansa, even Jon Snow at points).
That being said, with the Ramsay Bolton storyline over, and the specific Dorne subplot from the middle books done, none of this will be a problem in the future. I view it all much as I view Talisa in Season 2 – it’s bad but it’s in the past. That doesn’t mean I forgive or forget.
Otherwise I liked everything else in Season 6. One or two points were a bit clunky…King’s Landing storyline was slow but then WOW did it catch up in the season finale, the Arya storyline seems to have an abandoned subplot (I’m utterly convinced they wanted to have that be Jaqen pretending to be Arya, but later abandoned it – and maybe they were *right* to abandon it, I just wish they’d explain that). “No One” could have been edited a little better, but that’s to be expected near the end of the season but before the finale (you’ve got to cut corners somewhere). Daenerys with the Dothraki also appears to have needlessly cut one scene burning the khals with her dragon into two separate scenes – but at least that isn’t character assassination, just pacing.
Nor was Ramsay “bad” in all of his scenes – I mean the stuff with Roose & Co. in “Home” was brilliant stuff.
Overall I think the best individual episodes were “Home”, “The Door”, “The Broken Man”, and “The Winds of Winter”.
And I was just cheering for every ironborn scene we got – there was a time when I was convinced the Kingsmoot/Yara Greyjoy subplot would never happen.
Also I’m fairly sure that someone at HBO yelled at them to not have any new rape scenes this season (last year alone had 3 big ones). Nor was there much random nudity (only a little here and there when it made logical sense if a character was in a brothel).
So I have some “frank questions” for the TV writers, but look forward to next season. There are no longrunning problems anymore (if only because they reached their conclusion)
For me
S6
S4
S1
S5
S3
S2
Quick follow up because it was a common thread in all comments in main post:
I liked Arya’s overall storyline, but the climax in “No One” (and the lead-in stabbing) was poorly written or filmed and seems to be a remnant of an abandoned plot idea. Something like Jaqen getting stabbed wearing an Arya mask.
And maybe it was a *good* idea to abandon this. And it doesn’t ruin her future storyarcs, it’s just a bit clunky.
Still….they were so fixated on “Arya’s climax is a giant chase scene!” and no one thought to ask, during months of filming, “how is she physically capable of doing this after she just got repeatedly stabbed and could barely walk last episode?”
What would have fixed this, for me, is if they simply had Lady Crane say “you’ve been resting here for A WEEK” – just enough for her wounds to recover slightly. That would have fixed everything for me, really. I mean her wounds do open up again by the end of the chase.
Also some agree that moving the Frey pie revenge from Manderly to Arya was bad. Let me clarify: moving it away from the Manderlys was bad, but if you’re going to give it to someone else, it worked well enough in Arya’s storyline.
So I don’t count this as an “Arya problem” at all, but part of the wider “everything touching Ramsay Bolton and the North was at times mishandled, particularly the Northern Houses needing to get revenge”.
That scene was a last-minute addition to fill space, and per Cogman, all the other scenes between them developed as a result of the success of that scene.
He can’t do that. He’s already publicly betrayed Cersei by helping seat the Starks in Winterfell, as he himself noted.
Littlefinger is, at this point, basically committed to his long-term strategy, given that the forces he spent some time acquiring, the men of House Arryn, are now committed to the Stark cause. His thing is to try to oust Jon. If that fails, with Dany consolidating things in the South, there’s not much else for him to do. His time is running out, one way or another.
Season rankings?
Oh I used to be particular, but now my broad rankings are, in descending order:
*Seasons 1 and 3
*Seasons 2, 4, and 6
*Season 5
Just these three tiers. Anything else too specific. And I don’t hate “all” of Season 5, really, just the Dorne and North parts. The Daenerys, Tyrion, and Cersei parts were fine (as were the Jon parts up until the last moment when they bizarrely changed the motivation for his stabbing because they didn’t plan out their time well enough to include the bastard letter then, ack).
But it’s not really a fair comparison: Season 1 will always be “better” because by its nature it could be more focused; Seasons 3 and 6 had to juggle *far* more characters and plotlines.
fine that’s fair. Main belief still being that the dragons won’t all be making it.
I disagree about the Kit nomination, I don’t think he deserves one, not yet at least. Even with all the resurrection stuff, this wasn’t his season imo. I actually think Sansa had more relevance this season at the expense of Jon. I felt like Jon was resurrcted but just his body, his personality didn’t make it. I think this was Lena/Cercei season, or even Emilia/Dany, if someone deserve a nomination is Lena imo.
Oh Axey, Jaime has said that he wants to die in the arms of the woman he loves. I think you’re right, he will kill Cersai but it will be in Brienne’s arms he dies.
My God. Reading half these complaints because people didn’t get to see what they wanted happen, makes me sick. Get out there and start writing. Or find something else to do. I’m just happy to have Game of Thrones in my life. End of short rant.
My order of the seasons goes like this:6>5=4>3>1>2.Season six was so great because it had an amazing set up in season 5.Everything that happened in that season was necessary even though it was not as satisfying to watch as season six.Tbh considering what books they were adapting I was extremely impressed with what they were able to do in season five.
Why didn’t Dame Pasty do a video for S6Ep10??
*Seasons 1 and 3
*Seasons 2, 4, and 6
*Season 5
That actually is a good idea I go back and forth on my ratings for season 1 and 2. I was just in such amazement that the book was being adapted, that they really could do no wrong in my eyes. Rewatched them before this season starts and yeah, you can really see how the budget they have now would have helped a lot! The later seasons were so much better in so many ways, Its not really fair to rate them. For just plan excitement, and the thrill of seeing such good actors bring this story too life, its hard for me to put them at the end. I almost wonder if those two seasons should just be given a pass!
A question: Was Arya’s stabbing/recovery/chase scenes directed by two different directors? I could look up the episodes, but I’m pretty sure someone knows off the top of their head.
I was thinking that might have been the cause of the disconnect. Different visions.
6 > 4> 5 > 3 > 2 > 1
Sullied by Knight,
No, it was the same guy.
Yup, totally. Killing Cersei presumably at some point in Season 7 is going to allow him to shrug off the worst parts of his persona and become the honourable person he clearly wants to be. A death/rebirth of sorts. I think that became obvious when he told Brienne he wouldn’t betray his House in ‘No One’. Obviously he’s going to have to. The more I think about it, the more I believe he’s going to play a big role in the fight against the White Walkers, during which he’ll die heroically in Brienne’s arms. After all, he still has all those pages to fill in the Book of Brothers.
Like everybody else, I thought Arya’s arc was really uneven this season. It dragged, then it made no sense, and finally we got some pay off. Tyrion’s was much the same and felt like a complete waste of time for about 3/4 of it, although I loved his little speech to Dany in the finale. Dorne was a wash out again, but at least they were smart enough to put it to some use in the end. Diana Rigg slayed in the ‘Fire and Blood’ scene. Other than that I really loved it. Everything in the North was great, and Bran’s storyline finally got super cool and pivotal.
I’d say others may have the opposite peeve. In ASoIaF and “The World of Ice & Fire” there is only a Night’s King. Why D&D chose to have the scripts call their character Night King is a question. Perhaps simply to make it sound more like a name and not calling the dude king of the night.
Example – Bran, Jojen, Meera and Hodor arriving at the Nightfort:
“The Nightfort had figured in some of Old Nan’s scariest stories. It was here that Night’s King had reigned, before his name was wiped from the memory of man.”
Someone said a dragon could die in Season 7??? But, there is this prophecy in the books that the dragon has three heads … three riders for three dragons should fight against White Walkers. I expect the dragons will die during the big war but not before, at least in the books. The show has cut some characters and maybe they will take other route.
Sean C.,
Thanks! Not complaining at all. Loved the entire season and am still processing the amount of story we were given. That portion of the Arya story seems like we should have been showed she was luring the Waif into a trap or they should have dialed down the stabbing.
What bothers me the most of Season 6 is their bad attempts of being funny. The scene between Tyrion, Missandei and Grey Worm telling jokes was just awful, not even Peter Dinklage could save that … I also hated the first scene of Gilly and Sam where Sam throws up, especially because it’s before the beautiful Tower of Joy scene. The worst scene was the joke between outlaws about kissing, so tasteless. That was as bad as bad pussy in Season 5.
I read about the writing process and they make some kind of brainstorm, cards, outline, scripts and then read tables … and after all of that they can’t erase the excruciating bad jokes scenes.
Young Dragon,
I’m with you on everything you wrote. I enjoyed what they had of Arya, but I wish there could have been more. I was disappointed that they got her going so slowly with just those very short begging scenes. I’d have preferred one timelapse scene that quickly showed she’d been in the streets and harassed by the waif for many days. Maybe then they would have had time to work in more actual training rather than a handful of scenes of her getting beat on.
I grew tired of the bitching about the stab wounds very early the week after the episode and it’s still brought up. LET IT GO! There shouldn’t even be a discussion that she couldn’t have survived since SHE WASN’T SUPPOSE TO DIE. Characters survive far worse all the time when they’re not suppose to die. They may have made it look far too serious than they should have for the viewer concern cliffhanger, but that’s the only thing that should be thought about it and forget it. I never would have guessed people would cling to that so much.
House Stackhouse,
So why are you even here, in a website discussion the last season and predicting the next? Perhaps you need to find something else to do
off topic, look what I got for my anniversary’ http://www.toysrus.com/buy/action-figures/funko-pop-rides-game-of-thrones-3.75-inch-action-figure-daenerys-and-drogon-7235-86570616
It was somebody that said Arya didn’t think the FM would send someone to kill her. It was either Maisie, Mylod, or Benioff and Weiss, so it makes sense why she was being non chalant walking around Braavos in “The Broken Man”. It makes perfect sense.
A real doctor has publicly said she should not have survived those stab wounds, which renders the chase scene highly suspect.
Mag,
I don’t know when they’ll start killing dragons, but I’m having a hard time believing any will be alive at the end of the series. And what will that be? Predictable! It totally sucks too! Can dragons and cool creatures for just once be allowed to live on through the ending!?
My thoughts and comments were that she didn’t have much reason to believe that they’d try to kill her in public in broad daylight. The FM are trained to do everything covertly; poisons, private locations, in the dark.
I like this explanation as well.
A real doctor says that eh. Ha! He missed the part where the fake being in a fake world wasn’t suppose to die from those stab wounds. They were made to look worse ONLY so viewers were worried between episodes.
And, if we want to tie it to “real”… they’re not on Earth are they. Which is to say, the people living on Planetos don’t necessarily have to have the same body compositions, healing ability or even rate of healing do they.
Jack Bauer 24,
It was just terrible writing, no matter how much some people want to gloss over it.
Somebody being repeatedly stabbed in the gut would need proper surgery to fix it. Probably need a few feet of bowel removed and a colostomy. They’d probably die from blood loss to start with. And there’s the massive risk of infection.
It’s not good enough to simply pull the old “it’s a TV show” excuse when the writing is that poor.
Sure, people survive improbable odds in TV shows and serious injuries are sometimes glossed over. But this was just so flagrantly Hollywood and unnecessary that it can’t be ignored.
And, actually, in Game of Thrones very few characters have made recoveries from serious injuries, as far as I can remember. Jon Snow and Ned Stark are probably the only examples I can think of.
Jon Snow when he took three arrows from Ygritte, but we know that she was deliberately trying to hurt him, not kill him. And he made it back to Castle Black to Maester Aemon who would have been one of the most proficient healers in the land.
The other is when Ned Stark took a spear through the leg at King’s Landing. In real life he probably would have lost the leg or bled to death. But he was in King’s Landing and would have had the very best doctors treat him at the king’s command. And, plot armour, obviously.
But these are forgivable offences. Arya’s very clear and blatant stabbing in a notoriously dangerous part of the body being stitched up by an actress is just unforgivably dumb.
Really? You can’t suspend belief even a tiny bit. You can’t close your eyes for two seconds when she’s stabbed twice and pretend she just got a deep flesh wound. That’s all it is, two seconds of an attack. Apparently two seconds can turn the writing and directing of an entire episode to unforgivably dumb. Huh… It’s been said before, it wasn’t the writing that made the stabbing look worse than it was suppose to be for the character.
Clob,
Bittersweet ending: All humans die and only the animals survive. 12 Monkeys style.
Clob,
Deep flesh wound? From a six inch blade vigorously stabbed into the gut of a girl with practically zero body fat? Come off it!
And the suspension of disbelief excuse is pointless. We’re watching a show featuring dragons and supernatural ice warriors. Of course I can suspend my disbelief. What I can’t do is forgive insults to the viewers’ intelligence and a drop in the high standards the show has upheld.
If you’re happy to dream up ways to explain away the issues with that scene then that’s fine.
But I think others are right to strongly criticise that sequence of events, because we expect better from this show and wouldn’t want to see the remaining couple of seasons tarnished by any more instances of such sloppy writing.
If they had done that I’d still be complaining more than those about the stab wounds. They put that idea/possibility in people’s minds with that weird, show-created, seemingly hallucinogenic scene when Arya went blind and it fueled that theory after the stabbing episode. My issue with it was that the FM need a face to become that person. Arya would have to be dead for Jaqen to use her face… unless they completely changed what the Faceless Men are able to do.
Hey, you’re suppose to close your eyes for those two seconds!! You totally miss the stabs and just envision what happened was a deep flesh would. 🙂
sloppy DIRECTING.
The writing of the attack was fine. The directing to make it look so brutal, so life threatening was over the top. Still, nobody believed Arya was going to die anyway.
Arya took a swim in the House of Black and White pool to heal her wounds….
I didn’t like Arya as a no one… hopefully she is back to being Arya Stark and make it back to Winterfell.
I thought the citizens of Bravos after Arya got out of the cess pool water and during the Waif/Arya chase were totally unbelievable… amateur directing and Hopefully MM improves a lot before season 7
Why would those be connected in anyway? She was going blind in the Season 5 finale, so how does that connect at all to Jaqen wearing her face during the stabbing?
Yep, here she is with her practically zero body fat self about to get in:
https://i.redd.it/2dl979vc2u4x.jpg
I mentioned the show’s version of Arya’s blinding because that fueled the theory that Jaqen would have the ability to use her face. However, the Faceless Men aren’t shapeshifters that can just become anybody they want. They need the face of a dead person that they’ve specially prepared and apply it with training, their own blood and tools. As I said, without changing what the FM can do entirely, Arya would have to have been dead for Jaqen to use her face.
Clob,
No, it’s the writing.
Pretty sure Mylod didn’t dream up the concept of Arya wandering around Braavos with her guard down like a total noob and getting stabbed to the point of near death, simply in order to send her back to Lady Crane, and so on.
It was a cheap shock and an unnecessary plot device.
Well, if that’s how you see it, okay.
I’m still going with the thought that Arya didn’t expect an attack in public during the day when the FM methods are always covert. It surprised her and it was suppose to surprise the viewer. If the scene was her skipping along like a noob by herself in a dark alley that would be stupid.
Clob,
Jaqen killed the Tickler and Amory Lorch in broad daylight in a crowded castle. She knows exactly how easily the Faceless Men can get to people.
Walking around Braavos without a care in the world made no sense.
And the attempt on her life didn’t surprise me. We already knew that the Waif was on her tail. Then we see Arya walking round Braavos with her guard conveniently down… the moment the old lady came shuffling into sight I practically groaned because it was so painfully telegraphed.
The extent of Arya’s injuries was a surprise. Which is why the resolution was so pathetic. It rendered the attack nothing but a cheap shock with absolutely zero consequences. This show is better than that.
Bran will traverse the wall by riding the elevator up the north side and down the south side, thus denying the NK the opportunity to go through the wall.
Yet it was still covert. He did it in locations where nobody could see him do it. Amory was in a castle corridor with nobody around and there wasn’t anyone that saw or suspected him when the Tickler dropped into the courtyard. The only way Arya knew who did it was because she named them for Jaqen.
Right at the bottom of the bridge Arya walked up on there were several merchant stands and people standing around. It was right out in the open where all those people were witness.
You are right. Everybody knew the old woman was the waif. No disputing that.
In regards to the severity they made the wounds appear… I guess I wonder what they should have done that would have been better. With the same scene setup would it have been better if Arya was simply cut and jumped into the water? That wouldn’t have given the viewer any concerns. Should she simply have lured the waif somewhere right away and killed her? Maybe, but that’s quite a bit less dramatic I think.
firstone,
.
I was half expecting to see this as Jacquen walked following the bloody trail, and we see blood leading to one end of the pool and wet footprints leading out. Would have made a lot of sense – but yeah, either poor directing or poor writing caused this scene to be a bit of a mess. Still, loved the final swish of the candle flame going out, and her final words to the KM, then on to The Twins for a chat with a certain Frey character
Jack Bauer 24,
Apologies if this has already been discussed (but I really don’t want to read through 70 posts before responding). When Jaquen was following the drops of blood in the House of Black and White, he saw heavy drops of blood leading to the fountain. The camera even linguers on the fountain for a good few beats. Then, leading away from the fountain, to where the the waif’s face was mounted, the drops of blood became smaller (fewer :). I read this as Arya drank from the fountain (the same fountain which gave her back her sight) and it had healing powers, again. It seems that fountain can kill or cure under different circumstances? Did I read too much into that scene??
Edit: Oh good lord, I was so ninja’d on that.
I think it Was my favorite season. Or a very close tie with season 1. I should go back and rewatching S1 again because it has been a couple years…
First 5 eps were quite thrilling. Last two completely blew me away. Ep 7 and 8 were a mixed bag since I absolutely adored the riverlands story but the Arya nonsense put a damper on, and nothing else that “big”‘occurred.
Anyway can’t wait to witness the rule of Queen Cersei Lannister first of her name, no one saw that coming.
Clob,
so how did jaqen use the waifs face?…and how did the corpse on the floor end up with aryas face?
I guess I’m the outlier here. I thought season 6 was average to bad and thought it was tied for the weakest season (with season 5).
Reason being is the writing. It’s just not a tightly written plot with great dialogue anymore. Arya’s storyline to me was complete nonsense with he waife terminator chase laughable. Jon’s resurrection was meaningless and the whole point of him this season was to battle Ramsay (and ep9 wasn’t interesting to me, I’ve seen medieval battles plenty of times before) which was predictable and by-the-numbers. Good person battles bad person, good person looks like they’re going to lose, que the army to come in and save the day and thwart the bad guys. Can you get any more stock-standard and baseline writing than that? What is interesting or entertaining about it? We all know damn well Jon was going to win beforehand. I kind of wish they did what they used to do in previous seasons and skip the battle to just get to the aftermath.
Tyrion has tuned into one of the most boring, pointless characters in the show, which is annoying to see as he used to be one of the best. I never want to see him in a room with Messandei and Grey Worm together ever again.
Dany is still a terrible actress and her on Drogon with the stupid speech for the warriors to start chest beating…please. We have seen her burn thing to the ground and walk out naked with people bowing to her, we’ve seen everything fall into her lap for 6 seasons now. Any ‘threat’ she faces we know is a farce. There’s no possible threat to her, not until she gets to Westeros.
The show is just devolving into a standard action show now. The intricate plot and dialogue of the earlier seasons is now gone to make way for big ‘epic’ set pieces like Battle of the Bastards this season and Hardholm last season. And I can see why. It’s an easy way to entertain audiences rather than having to come up with a good story. Just film a generic battle scene and bam ‘amazing episode’. Contrast BotB to previous ‘big’ episodes like Baelor and Rains of Castamere. Ned Stark being beheaded wasn’t ‘amazing’ but the story and dialogue that lead up to it was and it made that moment so poignant. Same with Castamere. BotB didn’t have good story or dialogue to back it up because the writers now aren’t very good, so they had to go the other way and make sure that the battle itself was a huge spectacle to try and appease the audience.
The only thing I liked in this whole season was the revelation of Hodor’s name.
So basically I’m really starting to dislike what the show is becoming. It’s less Game of Thrones and more medieval action show #647388
If I had to rank the seasons it’d be:
4 > 3 > 2 > 1 > 6 = 5
Seasons 5 and 6 are pretty much the same for me, and feel like it’s a different show to what seasons 1, 2, 3 and 4 were.
I’m considering skipping on season 7 and 8 and might read the books. I don’t get how people can say season 6 is the best or one of the best seasons, maybe they don’t care for story and dialogue and want more Battle of the Bastards and Hardholm.
maybe the waif and arya were already dead and “no one” has been using their faces since she got there
That’s why I called it a “weird, show-created, seemingly hallucinogenic scene.” Arya’s blinding does not happen that way in the book. It was done for dramatic purpose and was mystically cool on the show. It really doesn’t make any sense though beyond a poison induced hallucination. It definitely doesn’t adhere to the abilities of the FM in the books. An explanation I tell myself… Jaqen does say that, “The faces are for no one. You are still someone. To someone, the faces are as good as poison.” She was not ready, not trained or skilled enough yet to use the faces properly so perhaps everything she saw was fake through her poisoned eyes.
i guess seeing jaqen in the waifs school dress would make anyone go blind
The citizens of Braavos do seem to behave oddly in general. The Waif was attacking blind beggar Arya with a staff in public, and nobody else really seemed to react. Waif chases Arya through the streets with a bloody knife, jumping off walls, and people just get annoyed when their fruit baskets get knocked over, but then just start trying to pick it up and continue their day like nothing happened. Maybe it’s because the city was founded by an assassin cult, and everyone just knows to ignore the crazy assassin antics unfolding around them, and pretend not to notice.
In most places, an assassin cult would be considered a criminal organization that should be ruthlessly destroyed by the authorities, but in Braavos they’ve upgraded from a cult to a full-blown religion, they have a prominent temple to the god of death, and seem to operate quite openly in the city. Back in season 5 when Arya arrived in Braavos, some guys threatened her in the street, but quickly ran away when they saw unfriendly doorman/Jaqen standing nearby, so they clearly recognized the faceless man robe.
I agree that Kit did a terrific job this season. He had a number of highlights – his post-rez talk with Davos, the execution of his murderers (loved his expression before he cut the rope), his reunion with Sansa, and the entire ep 9. However, I also agree that the Emmy’s most likely will nominate again the usual suspects – Peter, Lena, and Emilia. They do tend to keep these nominations within the same people. He may have a shot at a Globe nom (maybe) since the Foreign Press usually give their nods to the unusual ones. Let’s hope! 🙂
I love my girl Arya but I agree with most people here who didn’t like the conclusion of her Braavos storyline. I would have liked that they just did the street fight/chase scene without the prior day (?) stabbing. They could have set up Arya seemingly losing that fight (maybe being badly wounded but not fatally wounded) and then luring the Waif to her dark room and finally defeating her.
Arya never died and the waif just died.
Hahaha I never understood people’s reaction to the “bad pussy” line. Personally I thought it was fine, exactly the kind of thing I’d expect that character to say. The Dorne plot was silly, yeah – regardless of that line, haha – but I still thought it was kinda cool. Brought a different flavor to the show for a while. I think they rendered the whole thing pointless with the “twist” in S6E01, but ah well.
Also, they included the word “profligacy” in the finale. I think next season they should find a way to use the words “obdurate”, “vitiated”, and “pulchritudinous” in the script. That’s my personal vocabulary challenge to D&D hahaha.
I thought that blood was from the Waif’s face she just cut off? Was it Arya’s?
Andrew,
Excellent points in your post…. GoT is much more mainstreamed Hollywood action hero type stories. Money is the name of the game and I suppose the fan base is growing.
Last time I watched season 2 I was blown away how good it is.
Season 4 is outstanding but there are a couple slow dialog based episodes in the middle.
Season 3 has some outstanding direction and visuals. Jamie and Brienne both shine bright.
Favorite Season 5 story was how Littlefinger set up and burned Loras and Margaery and also Cersei
Season 6 had a lot of highlights…. I wish the dialog was written better and the stories were more believable. Overall I’m sorta disappointed with Brienne of Tarth, Tyrion, Sansa, Arya, Bran Stark
and Samwell Tarly …. Sam’s father knows where Samwell is… It shouldn’t be too difficult to get his sword back.
I hope GRRM writes at least one episode in Season 7
I look forward to a lot more Littlefinger and Varys in Season 7.
I also want learn why Vary’s freaked out when the lady priestess of R’hllor told him she knows what was said when he became a eunuch
Season 2>4>1>3>6>5
One more comment about season 2 and 4 –
Arya Stark (Maisie Williams) is outstanding in both season 2 and season 4 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, that would have worked beautifully, and been a simple fix. Or at least show her drinking from the healing waters that took away her blindness. Or pouring the waters over her wounds; at least that would have tied in with some of what she learned by spending all that time in the HoBaW. That way, the way we see her marching triumphantly away from Jaquen at the end, without so much as a twitch or limp, would have been way more believable
They barely touched on any other training but the workouts with the poles. The was one mini-second scene of her working with potions while she was blind. Wouldn’t you believe that a FM had so much to learn besides fighting with poles? Some stealth, some psychology of using another person’s face, how to answer if someone recognizes the face she’s wearing, something. I’d bet she never has another pole fight in the rest of series. It would be kind of cool if she did though. That at least would be a payoff for seeing her get pounded in episode after episode by the Waif.
I believe that Maisie did say something about the illogic of some of what was written. I really believe that Izembaro’s tirade about actors always wanting to rewrite the script: “full to the tits with ideas,” was a loving poke at her. By the way, not enough is said about the excellent jobs done by Essie Davis who played Lady Crane and Richard Grant, who played Izembaro. The rest of the troupe was great as well. I enjoyed every scene with the troupe, their whole play within a play was a joy to watch, and a welcome respite from seeing Maisie either sweeping or getting hit.
As has been said, Maisie did an excellent job with what she was given, and I was glad to know Arya was back in Westeros.
My Predictions for season 7+8:
Jon and Daenerys will fight together against the white walkers.
Jon´s parentage will not be known by many people, just family and friends.
It wouldn´t mean to much to the rest of the world anyway, as he just isn´t a Stark bastard anymore, but instead now a Targaryen bastard….no claim to the throne here.
But of course it means a lot for himself and his friends, don´t get me wrong.
Jon and Daenerys falling in love…? I´m not sure…
I would like to see Ser Jorah Mormont return, cured of course, fighting for the Queen, and she finally accepts him as her lover. Or later even as her husband.
Jaime finally becomes a hero and a real knight, even in Brienne´s eyes 🙂
He fights against his sister the end.
If he should die ( which I really don´t hope!! ), he will die in Brienne´s arms, like he told Bron some time ago on the beaches of Dorne.
Hopefully he´s allowed to live out his days with Brienne.
Sam returns from the citadel with potent knowledge, e.g. how to forge Valyrian steel, or how to make the magic of the wall stronger, or at least where to find more obsidian for weapons against the white walkers.
Hope his journey back to Jon doesn´t take 10 episodes like it did this time….
Bran and Meera have to get south of the wall, they meet Ed at Castle Black on the way, and Bran breaks the magic of the wall with that mark on him. Which is the ultimate catastrophe!
Cersei dies. Not by Jaimie´s hand, no, maybe Arya´s…..
Arya kills Gregor Clegane and returns to Winterfell.
Lord Baelish keeps plotting, tries to separate Jon and Sansa.
There has to be a marriage between the houses Stark and Lannister, I believe.
Remember the war of roses: Elisabeth of York and Henry Tudor…
So it´s Sansa and Tyrion, they were never divorced anyway.
But maybe Sansa will never take a husband again after all she has endured.
In the end, Queen Daenerys will sit on the iron throne, and she will grant the other great houses more power and participation. Maybe even elections in the future instead of domination by descent?
She will definitly change the system!
Like she said : “I´m going to break the wheel”.
There’s a lack of material in the last couple of books for Arya. There isn’t much more written about her training but there are some things that they could have added, along with her dreams and “inherent abilities.” I realize they felt they had bigger story elements to adapt that required a lot of time but it still kind of appeared as if it was a rather short training period. In the show we see her learning to lie, and I suppose tell if another is lying. She learns staff combat, poisons, how to use her senses other than sight and I guess how to prepare and use a face. In the books she’s learning to speak High Valyrian as well as the languages of Braavos, Lys and Pentos. The show didn’t create languages for those last three, but a quick scene showing her learning High Valyrian would have been nice. It would be cool if she can speak it if she ever has a scene with Daenerys. Eh, maybe she’ll just be able to and we’ll have to believe she learned it.
Overall, an awesome season for me. I was afraid it would be even worse than season 5 (but I should rather say “less good” since season 5 was good nonetheless), but this season had a lot of strong moments, beautiful soundtracks (Mr Djawadi, congrats) and an excellent direction (Ep 7, I’m looking at you).
I was just disappointed by 6×08, I though it was by far the worst episode of the show, that chase between Arya and the Waif made no sense and was cliché as f…, I disliked Blackfish’s death because it had no point and wasn’t even shown and Dany’s timing for her arrival in Meereen was quite suspicious. King Tommen destroyed my hype when he announced there would be no Cleganebowl (I know it’s silly, but I wanted to see it so bad) and, though I was happy to see Beric Dondarrion with his BoB, I know it definitely means there will be no LSH…
For the rest, it was pure bliss: the Tower of Joy, the Kingsmoot and Euron’s drowning, Riverrun in Ep 7 with some badass Jaime, the unexpected “Hold the door”, Jon’s resurrection and meeting with Sansa, Lyanna Mormont, the Hound’s comeback, the whole 6×09 and 6×10…
I just wish they would have added Victarion, the “Broken Man” speech, more Wyman Manderly and the whole ToJ dialogue from the books (plus I think Dayne vs 4 men was a bit too ambitious, even though it was beautiful).
Anyway, I’m looking forward to seeing Dany’s arrival in Westeros, the Stark children eventually reunited, Jaime vs Cersei, what will the BoB do, Sam at the Citadel, Euron with his ships, the Wall collapsing… Can’t wait to be in 2017!
Edit: My personal season ranking: 1>>6>4>3=2>5
Couldn’t agree more. If it was so obvious, wouldn’t Bran, Meera or Benjen have thought that maybe Bran shouldn’t pass through the Wall?
And why then would Benjen mention the Wall’s magic at the end if it was already in essence defeated?
And I can’t believe the show runners would make the passage that easy. The wall needs to come down for the Walkers to cross over. Not saying Bran’s mark won’t have anything to do with it, but I highly doubt it’s a free pass.
And…I think the wall comes down at the very end of this next season – like last frame of the finale. So S7 is about the fight for the iron throne and the ascension of the final players, S8 is the fight for survival of humanity.
firstone,
I wonder if they’re even going to follow up on Kinvara. One would think so due to her epic character introduction, though it’s hard to see how since Dany is off to Westeros and would have no reason to bring her along. It would be lame if she was just used to fill time in the pointless Mereen story and ultimately served no other purpose.
This is by far my favourite season. The last 2 episodes made it better then S4 for me.
If I was to rank them it would be this:
S6-Loved every storyline.
S4.
S5-I was so ”scared” before this season, because it adapts my most disliked storylines, but I was impressed by how much I enjoyed it. They gave Jon/Sansa a actual story and they streamlined Dany and Tyrions stories perfectly.
S1-Did a rewatch recently with a friend, who was watching for the first time and was suprised at how little I enjoyed it….. Sean Bean and Mark Addy were by far the best things about it..
S3-Splitting ASOS hurt this season a bit, ironically I think it helped S4 a lot…
S2- Still my least liked season. Dany’s story was sub-par, though I liked that they tried to give her something to do. For Jon’s story I have the same complaints as I had about it in the books but I liked that they focused on his relationship with Ygritte, it helped later on. The other stories were quite boring, as I was never a fan of Blackwater.
But I LOVED Liam!
LatrineDiggerBrian,
They will stop in Volantis first, to free it.
They’ll pick her up there, I believe. Someone must start telling Dany of the WW and that she is the chosen one.
That makes two of us!!! While one could argue for the opposite, that LF survives, I think that we’ve come to this point of the story, that there’s no room for more LF’s scheaming. Ok, maybe he’ll have his way for a time in next season, perhaps to serve somehow the big picture of the story, but I think he should not make it through season 7 alive. My reasoning that, season 8 must be focused about the real enemy, the WW and Night King, ‘Death’ as D&D put it- a good reason for whoever is left alive to come together and fight. I can’t see LF in that context, as there will be a lot of more important things going on, than who sits on the Iron Throne etc – unless they want to have the Night King sitting there in the end! I therefore hope that LF is going down. And I admit I’ll be very happy to see that! I just hope that he doesn’t cause too much damage until that happens and to say the truth I’d like to finally see his scheams backfire and getting what he deserves!
Ghost MUST survive and his master too! 😀
Just to add one more thing that I’m thinking after reading different posts today – and I apologize if I’m writing this at the wrong place.
I believe, there isn’t much room left for twists in the story as before, but that doesn’t mean that the writers, or the story is becoming predictable – even if to some extend it must be predictable.
It’s not season 1 -5 where we had ‘150’ plotlines and twists/deaths were needed to get the pawns moving on the chessboard.
We neither have ‘150’ different plotlines-pawns anymore, we have just a few remaining pawns that have survived and are now all moving to their whatever appointed destiny- the ones that are essential to get the story move forward.
Twists just for sake of twists and ‘not being predictable’ would most definitely not serve the story, and secondly it would reduce the storytelling to something made up only to cause a minute’s surprise, adding nothing of essence.
That said, I think there will be one major twist in the next 2 seasons (I’m not reffering to Cercei – she’s likely doomed anyway). George has stated that the end is bittersweet, which to me means that we and our heroes will probably suffer the loss of some major and loved player/s (Dany? Tyrion? Maybe Sansa? Dunno!) : and that must only happen in the context of serving the story, I hope, and not just for the sake of the plot-twist.
Thanks for the good reads everyone, it definitely makes the waiting a bit more bearable!!
SiriuslyStark,
Completely agree with you on ”twists”, well said.
Concerning the idea of our ”heroes” dying. I think it will be Dany.
I thought this for 10+ years. Her Dragons returned just when the WW returned, they brought the magic back. When she/they will beat the WW I think she and all her dragons will die. In a way to balance the world again.
Thank you, Mihnea 🙂
I’ve been thinking about this concerning Dany too – I haven’t read the books, but there’s something about the Targ. house that carries this kind of weight: they have been very powerful but all end up dead in one way or another, it’s like they can’t have the glory and stay alive too. Dunno!
Your train of thought makes sense to me – in the world of Ice and Fire, there must be balance, it’s I think what we’ve been exploring from the very start, the consenquence of a world out of balance. Thanks for that food for thought! 🙂
firstone,
The scripts are already written, so no George for season 7. I think I read a reply he wrote to a commenter on his blog saying he’d be open to write one for season 8.
Mihnea,
Hmm I don’t think they’re going waste time on this. All for one character?
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Not only for her. But I do think she will return. Someone MUST inform Dany of the WW, make here believe only she can stop them…etc.
Volantis is a huge slave city, one that attacked Dany. A city were slaves outnumber the freeman, as Varys says in S5 and we also see in S5 that the slaves there pray/hope that Dany will free them.
And a city the viewer is already familiar with.
From another point of view, it gives time for Cersei/Jaime drama in KL. Because once she gets there, it is over for the Lannisters.
If there will be 7 episodes, it still isn’t confirmed, so we might get 8, but I believe it is safe to say it will be 7, I think the first 2-3 episodes should be more then enough to finish this side-trip, then you have 4 episodes to deal with whatever comes next.
I think her story next season will end, with her realizing the threat beyond the Wall and marching North. Like her vision in S2, were she ”refuses” the IT and goes beyond the Wall, this is where her destiny is, not KL and the IT.
ThisGirlHasNoName,
I hope the season 8 white walkers story shows more of the White Walkers history and how the children of the forest lost control of them. I want to know more about the white walkers instead of the just battle scenes. Season 8 could have some interaction between the Night’s King and Jaehaerys Targaryen.
firstone,
The NK doesn’t speak and D&D said they don’t even think of giving him spoken lines.
If will get more WW lore, it will be trough Bran.
firstone,
GrrM wasn’t able to write a good book in 16 years. I can’t see why Hbo needs him.
Mihnea,
I don’t think that they will waste time on Volantis. That is something GrrM would like to write, not D&D.
mau,
Agree, I am not so sure, but I can’t really see what Dany will do for 6 episodes, let’s say the first one she’s still on the boat, in Westeros.
And I think someone NEEDS to inform her of the WW and prophecies and all of this.
Kinarva and Volantis seem like a obvious route they could take.
And the viewer is already familiar with both the location and character.
Oldtown and the Maesters is another but I am not sure how much time they will invest in these places/characters. They could very well do this in Oldtown, especially if Jorah and Euron will both arrive here, it would connect the stories nicely.
Even 2 episodes would be enough. 1 she decides to go there, arrives there and another one to take it and aftermath. I don’t expect a battle anyway, a quick ”fly the dragons over the city, slave revolt/they surrender” scenario is what I had in mind.
Jack Bauer 24,
Green and gold,not red.
Well well well. It has been a while.
I found this season to be better than last, but still inconsistent. However the last 3-4 episodes really “made” this season. Although all signs from ep 610 are pointing towards a fairly predictable grand finale.
Favorite moment was Jaime vs Edmure. That scene was hands down one of the best acted and written of the entire series.
Loved meeting the Tarley family and I hope we see more of Sams parents in season 7,they were wonderful.
And there will never be too much of Lady Mormont,may she and her 62 have Jons back until the end,however it turns out.
Great great season,and has motivated me to visit Northern Ireland,just to see locations.
Well done GoT.
Mihnea,
I just think they’re in such a rush to end this thing, I really doubt they’re going to waste any more time in Essos. Someone else can tell her about the White Walkers in Westeros.
mau,
Haha please remember not throw a fit the next time D&D are called hacks if you’re gonna troll like this?
LatrineDiggerBrian,
I think Kinvara will be back. Just because she wasn’t shown doesn’t mean she wasn’t on one of the ships. But I think it’s more likely that she just shows up in Westeros to drum up support for Dany among the people. She’s the High Priestess so pretty sure she can arrange her own transportation across the sea. And thankfully D&D don’t feel the need to go into excruciating detail about how people get from one place to another.
But I think she will definitely return and I look forward to her having more interactions with Varys, and maybe also with Melisandre eventually.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
I did not say this will be a complex season long arc.
And no, no one else really can. It isn’t only the that she needs to be informed of the existence of the WW, someone needs to convince her that she is the chosen one, that this is her destiny.
A red priestess is perfect for this.
2 episodes are more then enough and this will give a bit of time for Cersei/Jaime conflict in KL.
Because once Dany is there, it is over.
As I said, based on the vision in S2 and my speculation, is that she will NEVER rule. KL will be burned and meaningless once she reaches it. So there is no point to have her there after only 2 episode.
She won’t rule, there won’t be a season long arc about the political intrigue of Dany’s court.
I may be wrong, of course. But so far about 80% of my speculation came true, so until further information is provided, I will stick to this.
Rygar,
I’ve seen the Jaime/Edmure scene mentioned by a few people as their standout scene, but I don’t think it would even make my top 50 for the season. To me Edmure is such a minor show character that I didn’t find his predicament all that compelling and honestly had pretty much forgotten about him. Hey, dude, at least you weren’t butchered like your sister. As for Jaime, that scene to me was just a way for the writers to reiterate how much he loves Cersei and will do anything to be with her so when we get to the season end and see what she did then we will wonder if even that will be enough to break the hold she has on him.
My reading is that the blood leading up to the fountain was a combo of bleeding waif face and Arya’s bleeding wound. Walking away from the fountain was just the small drops of blood from the face mask.
With that said, i do feel if this is the case, it should have been more clear. The Arya/Waif stabbing and chase were horribly handled. I liked the ending of her Bravosi storyline, I even liked that she cut the candle and the cut to black. It’s that ridiculous strolling/stabbing/Terminator chase scene that took me out of my show-watching bliss. The blood trail theory is my way of trying to grasp at some kind of hope that episode 8 wasn’t a total nonsensical disaster for Arya’s storyline.
OK, here are my speculations and predictions. Though the last season proved that I am not very good at predicting, it’s still fun.
Arya. Yes, her story with the FM looks like a rather unsuccessful filler at the moment and inconsistencies seem weird but are they really? We have spent a lot of time discussing her stab wounds but what about the moment when she drank the poisoned water in ep3 and didn’t die? She wasn’t no-one at that moment, she didn’t lose her personality and still that water did not kill her… Did she manage to cheat death? Well, my guess is that death can’t be cheated, so maybe it was Arya who was cheated instead? Maybe, despite of thinking that she is still Arya of Winterfell, she became no-one and didn’t notice that? Maybe that made her immune to poison, stab wounds, etc.? And in the last episode she operated more like a plot device that a character – despite of her words she was no-one just like Jacken said… So, I don’t know… Maybe I am giving too much credit to D&D but I think that the consequences of Arya’s training in the House of Black & White will be addressed next season and that will bring more sense for the entire Braavos plot, though on the other hand it may be the case that GRRM has lost the thread of this plot himself and that is one of the reasons why he got stuck with the WoW.
Cersey. I don’t feel like her character needs any more exploration and I’m afraid that her story may turn into a filler but, if Jaime has to play some pivotal role in the final stand against the WW, I will be OK with that. On the other hand, D&D can still surprise us all by killing Cersey in the beginning of the next season but I don’t think that’s happening, because her story (including Jamie and Frankenmountain) may simply serve to tie some lose ends from Euron to Arya/Sandor/Brienne etc.
Dany. Once again I am not thrilled. The trend of her story arch is clear: she will win the Iron Throne but realize that it’s not what she wanted, cause she always wanted HOME, not power; discovering a new purpose in life for her may be related only to the WW and/or marrying Jon but it looks like that will be postponed until Season 8 and that this season she will be experiencing some setback due to Euron and/or a storm which will scatter her Armada and her dragons. What I really wonder is what role will be played by Grey-Worm and Missandey. One possibility that they are simply going to be killed to make Dany shed some tears but if not, they are to be sent back to Meereen, which also implies that Meereen and/or rather Daario have to pop up again. I’m sort of looking forwards to Daario stabbing or at least trying to stab Dany in a Don José way, because she really deserves that. However, that may be just a wishful thinking.
Finally, the North – the main and the most promising story line. I don’t believe that Sansa will betray Jon but regarding Jon, I’m not so sure. He has to find about his true parentage pretty early in the season and I assume that it will be Littlefinger who will confirm his legitimacy. This will make things interesting. Many used to say that Jon was a reluctant leader but that’s not true: he was willing as hell from the very 1st episode. Of cause, he kept his ambitions under control and he wanted to earn respect but what will happen when he finds out to be entitled to everything he has ever dreamed of and more? Won’t he be tempted to seek the Iron Throne especially knowing that he needs more men to fight the WW? And Littlefinger may offer Jon his services… IMHO that would be much more interesting and natural course of events than Sansa’s envy which has no grounds and no build-up.
Inga,
I’m sort of looking forwards to Daario stabbing or at least trying to stab Dany in a Don José way, because she really deserves that.
So other than the fact that you don’t like Dany, why does she “deserve that”? It was Tyrion who advised her to leave him behind which was smart advice. Daario has been loyal to her (as far as we know) but he could be a distraction to her in Westeros and potential allies may be wary of his relationship with her.
And don’t take this as just a criticism of you for not liking a certain character. We all have characters we like better than others.
Loved the season…glad that the High Sparrow is out of the way!
2 unforgivable goofs: when Arya slices the top of the candle off, she wasn’t slicing a power cord…I don’t think total blackness would follow instantaneously…why did the lit wick cease to burn? A problem for me since this is what I thought of at the moment I saw it, thus taking me out of an otherwise cool moment. Along those same lines, the lack of armor and weapons for the giant in E9. They need to do a better job at avoiding these WTF?/lazy writing moments.
…almost forgot Rickon’s lack of zig zagging!
Casso,
Youve obviously not read about the Assassins Guild on Discworld in the town of Ankh Morpork 🙂
Noirgirl,
It did happen that way but the camera did not linger long enough for anyone to make that conclusion That being said, I agree thats what I wanted to have happen it was the only explanation that made sense. But the writers didn’t make it clear if thats what they meant
Is there an interview with the writers or the director discussing this particular scene? There are lots of questions and as much as I love Arya, and how it ended, I think they’ve got some ‘splaining to do (or not It is fantasy series after all…)
Andrew,
I think you make your point about not caring for this season very well – I may disagree with some of it, and think that the good outweighs the not so good,, but I always appreciate it when someone can express his opinion with reasons to back it up.
As for the writing – well, they had 5 books to get material from. George has yet to deliver on the others. The writers have his ‘vision’, but not much more. I’d expect the quality to change (not necesarrily for the worst, but just to change) So Im not surprised really.
As for going to read the books – you should they are amazing! The pity of it all is that the author for whatever reason has not published another in many years, and might not do so ever. So you may need to watch S7,8 just to get the end of the story
jymion,
🙂
Yeah, I really wish the showrunners would explain what in the world happened. I just treat her the scene and I agree, they didn’t really linger on the fountain that long. The director’s focus may have been the doorway. (sigh) I really really want that episode to make sense.
Unlike some, I did like Arya’s time in Bravos and don’t believe it to be a waste of time or filler. Arya learned some crazy skills that made her killing of Walder Frey pretty f-ing fantastic.
One of my favorite moments of the season was Arya/serving girl saying to Frey “They’re here m’lord.” And my (embarrassing slow) realization of what was happening. That scene was played to perfection by all.
And I almost have no words for the finale. Amazing. The entire first 10 minutes were better than most films. The directing, acting, music, editing cinematography. Really amazingly beautiful.
ash,
Happy (one-day belated) Anniversary! My name day is the 19th, and my artistic daughter is making me a Lyanna Mormont figure out of Sculpey (a heat-hardened modeling clay). We’re both lucky to have near & dear ones who indulge us our own GoT fantasies.
Btw, great reference to Discworld and the Assassins Guild of Ankh Morpork. Wonder what Rincewind would have done in Westeros?
Andrew,
I think it’s quite wrong and frankly insulting, to say that everyone who liked this season does ”not care” or is a mindless idiot who enjoys only fighting, just because he doesn’t agree with your criticism or have the same opinion as you do.
Opinions are fine and completely natural, but don’t insult or mock those who happen to disagree with you.
ash,
Yeah, I’m afraid the people who are waiting for the books are going to be waiting a long time and maybe forever. George Martin is nearly 70, is well off and seems to have a lot of interests besides writing. If he wants to spend his time traveling and enjoying himself then more power to him. I just wish he wouldn’t continue to allow people to believe that the remaining books will be coming anytime soon.
Lord of Coffee,
WOW has a 50% chance of being released. I have no faith in Martin’s words, when release dates are concerned, I think even he thinks the same because he no longer mentions the progress he makes or estimates.
I still remember ”ADWD next year”-2005
And ”I should be done soon”- 2006
And ”Next year it should be done”- 2007
And…..etc.
ADOS will never be released.
ash,
“Youve obviously not read about the Assassins Guild on Discworld in the town of Ankh Morpork ?”
Indeed. A wise leader knows that a well-regulated Assassins’ Guild can be an important cog in a city’s economy.
Here’s a theory I haven’t seen advanced before: The Sealord of Braavos = the Patrician! It would even be a way to bring Charles Dance back into the show…
Mihnea,
Opinions are fine and completely natural, but don’t insult or mock those who happen to disagree with you.
Well said!
keltia,
Ha! If only Terry were still alive and well – that would be some kind o series! Not to mention the Maesters of Oldtown being very embarrassed by the visiting UU wizards..
oh and thanks for the best wishes 26 years – much quieter than last years bash, and just as nice.
Wouldn’t have mattered if he zigzagged. Ramsay was a master archer. Also, Jon was charging straight forward. Rickon was so caught up in the moment/scared that he was just following Jon’s course and trying to get to him as fast as possible.
Jack Bauer 24,
If anything zigzaging would have slowed him down.
But that doesn’t matter, he was a little scared boy, under great stress and fear, who wanted to reach his brother to be safe.
The only aspect I liked of Arya’s House of Black and White Faceless Man story in Bravos is how the Waif and Jaqen H’ghar would know the answers to the questions they would ask Arya and if she lied they would hit her. Sometimes Jaqen H’ghar knew the answers better than Arya did….. example when the Waif or Jaqen H’ghar asked Arya about the Hound.
Also during Arya’s training the Waif hit the body part on Arya that was attacked on Arya’s siblings when they were killed. Rickon was running when he was killed so the Waif hit Arya in the legs when Rickon’s name is spoken.
It will be an Epic moment when Arya meets the Hound again in
Season 7.
http://i.imgur.com/TNSWU0E.jpg
🙂
Firannion,
Oh wouldn’t that be wonderful! Actually Tywin always did seem a bit like the Patrician (tho I think P was a bit more judiciuos)
firstone,
While I loved Jacquens character, I really did miss the books characterization of FM, the Kindly Man, and the Waif. Its one of those instances from the book that would have worked well on screen (they could have reduced the amount of time training, but at least focus on the poisons and the languages). I like ultimately how Arya led the Waif to her so she could kill her blind, and I liked that she decided to return home. But I liked the book version better.
Andrew,
I enjoyed season 5 and put it up there with the 4 seasons before it (though at the bottom) and I think Emilia Clarke is a terrific actress, but other than that I agree with you 100%.
The season overall was just very hollow to me. It seemed like they made a checklist of all the big events that needed to happen and rushed / put little care into stuff that happened in between those events.
I know people got mad at me for bitching constantly, but the result of season 6 was quite devastating because it ultimately signified the end of the show for me. I was obsessed with this show like nothing else for the past couple of years and it’s actually been an inspiration for me to pursue a career in TV writing (much to the chagrin of many on this board).
I’m still going to watch seasons 7 and 8 of course, but it just won’t be the same :`(
firstone,
This is where I feel I’m in the bizarro world and I get how people think I’m being contrarian because I just don’t understand why it seems like the majority of people hated the entirety of Arya’s story in Braavos, calling it filler or pointless or boring. It was so interesting to me, the Faceless Men and the House of Black & White and The Hall of Faces and her training and her killing Meryn Trount. I really loved every second of it until the very end. Maybe it was because people had already read what happened in the books?
Considering that D&D have switched and combined story lines with different characters from the book to the show… I heard in the books that Sansa never married Ramsey Snow.
I heard in the books that Jon Snow is kind of freaked out about going into the crypt at Winterfell… I’d like to see Lady Stoneheart appear in the Winterfell crypt after Jon finds out who his mother is.
Or have Littlefinger walk into the Winterfell crypt and have Lady Stoneheart make Littlefinger hang out in Winterfell for a long time
Lord of Coffee,
I like Dany but I really hate her for what she did to Daario (and Hizdahr, too). I can agree that both of them were not for her but she shouldn’t get involved with them in the first place. I used to ship her with Jon but now I have a strong feeling that Jon deserves better.
On a serious note: I don’t believe that love or friendship have to be sacrificed for politics. Really successful politicians don’t make such sacrifices – they turn love and friendship into their political advantage and rule happily till the end of their days. Meanwhile those who do sacrifice end up lonely, hated, or betrayed. It is known.
Mihnea,
About the lack of “twists” in the next season(s), what are D&D going to do about the reveal of Jon’s parentage and its effect on Jon/KitN? I’m still pondering Snowblind’s scenario for Season 7: Littlefinger finds and produces (at exactly the worst moment, I’m sure) Wylla, Lyanna’s midwife & Jon’s wet nurse, to publicly attest to R+L=J. (In the show, hers was the name Ned gave to Robert as being Jon’s mother, and the 2nd ToJ scene did show us a young woman handing baby “J” to Ned).
Hope the new job is going well.
I agree with the vast majority of what you say (other than that I have less of a problem with the new, subdued, disheartened Jon than most viewers, it seems). To me it has become painfully obvious that without GRRM’s regular input, the writers have been making things up on the fly because they think they would look ‘epic’ onscreen, rational plot be damned. It feels to me like they’ve gotten so carried away with their viewership success that they think they can do no wrong and don’t bother consulting with anyone at all about whether a brainwave they come up with is great or terrible. It’s as if they have developed ADHD and can no longer be bothered with focusing on setting things up, weaving plot strands together or tying up loose ends in any way more subtle than killing off characters they’ve suddenly decided are extraneous (like Barristan in S5 or Doran in S6).
Like you, I have no patience with Superdany, and hate seeing Peter Dinklage’s talents wasted on witless dialogue. I loved Arya’s FM training in the books and thought that, other than the lovely theatre troupe scenes, the show totally mangled it. Two minutes of Arya exploring the bowels of the HoBaW without her sight would have told us so much more about the purpose of her blindness than scene after scene of her being persecuted by the Waif. And the deep gut stab and twist immediately followed by a spectacular display of parkour skills was just plain implausible.
Though there was certainly more to like than in most TV shows, I could go on and on about what rang false to me in S6. I guess my point is that you are by no means an ‘outlier’ here.
Varys’ backstory as a child with the evil sorcerer have been mentioned twice in the show, once in a convo. between Tyrion and Varys and again this season from Kinvara. We probably will get an explanation of what was happening, and who the voice that spoke from the fire, was.
Melissandre’s future story intrigues me. Her arch so far has been Stannis and the war, and then Jon and resurrection. What now? She may die at Arya’s hands, but surely that can’t be the end of her story. It would indeed be better to have her interact with the characters coming from Essos, other Red Priestesses, and with Daenerys too.
Speaking of Daenerys, how north will she eventually go to fight the WWs? The North is such an independent identity at this point that I wonder if she will represent the South and fight the WWs at the Trident. Leaving everything north of there in the capable hands of the Starks and everyone else who is in the Riverlands, North and the Vale.
I didn’t notice the deaths paralleling previous killings re Walder, Roose and Ramsey. That was a great catch. It also got me thinking that the Frey pies were reminiscent of The rat king story and represent the violation of guest right.
Great analysis and great coverage for the season. While I don’t always agree with you guys I do want to thank you for your excellent hard work. Cheers
keltia,
Bran might tell him. But I doubt anyone besides them, maybe Sansa and eventually Arya too will know.
I don’t think this will be a great revelation that the world will find out.
But rather it will be relevant to Jon and him alone.
I doubt the revelation will embolden him or make him happy, on the contrary I expect the opposite.
Thanks, it’s going great! Starting to learn how put prices on products…etc It’s new and quite fun! 🙂
LatrineDiggerBrian,
To me the house of black and White and Faceless man seemed so bizarre and so unlike Arya. Overall though I liked how the Waif knew Arya better than Arya knew herself… The waif kept telling Arya over and over that she could never be a Faceless Assassin. and then Arya realized that the Waif was right and that Arya will always be Arya Stark.
What are everyone’s thoughts on the return of Jaqen H’ghar? I haven’t seen a Curtain Call for Tom W., and there was something in that sly smile he gave Arya as she was leaving the HoBaW that made me believe we’d not seen the last of him.
[The Sullied may need to use spoiler tags if they refer to his later role as described in the books].
keltia,
I predict in season 7, the moment she’s about to reunite with Jon and Sansa, the Faceless Men will catch up with her and kill her for not fulfilling her training / stealing faces from the House of B & W.
firstone,
What about it seemed unlike her?
keltia,
It could go either way for me. It feels similar to the Daario goodbye. Not sure the FM are cool with Arya using faces for her hit list. And Daario “ruling” Meereen is just a big “wait, what?” for me. Still, I would not be shocked if we see neither again. As for sullied…
LatrineDiggerBrian,
If this punishment were called for, why didn’t Jaqen do it before she left the HoBaW, or at least have her killed before she left Braavos? Seems like a waste of valuable assassin power to have to chase her around Westeros (or West of Westeros).
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Arya isn’t going to die. I don’t believe any of the Starks will die.
Of the ‘big” characters I would say only Dany and Jon, though I doubt it now that his king, will die.
And Dany at the very end, against the WW, not before.
keltia,
That is a great point. I could still see it happening though because they’ve started to force the puzzle pieces into place even if they don’t fit exactly all the time.
Now that I think of it, why did she even go back to the House of B & W? And why was she allowed to leave?
I think that we will see Jaqen again.
And I don’t think he will kill Arya. He has clearly liked her right from the beginning. He clearly has a personality, as did the Waif as does the Kindly Man in the books. Mayhaps the point is that no one can become no one. But they can become something else.
Unless the Night’s King works for the Many Faced God, I believe the Faceless Men will move against him. I think Jaqen will use Aray at that point.
I think all the whining about wasting two seasons in Braavos will be put to shame.
But so could my prediction 🙂
Mihnea,
What makes you think that? It seems like George is on the path to kiling off all of the Starks though (and their dire wolves).
Tycho Nestoris,
I agree with your contrast between BookJaq & ShowJaq and am not sure why their portrayal was so different. I know that there are many “origin stories” and loose threads we would like the show to resolve which can’t all be done in the remaining episodes. One that will linger with me, however, is why Jaqen was in the Black Cells in Season 1.
Thanks for your reply.
So much of the GoT world depends on name and reputation – I’m thinking back to the introduction of Tywin in one of the first seasons, when he is lecturing Jaime on the importance of maintaining a good name. Right now, Ned’s name has a slight blotch on it because it is thought that he sired Jon by some unknown wench during some random dalliance. Even though it seems the North was understanding of that lapse in fidelity on Ned’s part, Jon is still considered a blotch on his reputation.
What may be gained by the North knowing the truth is that the purity of Ned’s and Catelyn’s marriage would be restored, and Ned’s reputation would be enhanced even more when people consider what was done to maintain Jon’s safety from Robert’s wrath. The Stark name would be even more worthwhile, and Jon would be considered even more worthy a King.
Even though Jon might still be a bastard, he’d be a Targaryan bastard. The romance of the story of Rhaegar and Lyanna Stark would be enhanced as well, casting a more golden light over Jon’s head, especially if it is known that Lyanna and her baby were so valued that Rhaegar posted his most trusted warrior to watch over her at the expense of his own safety. People would also be enthralled by knowing that he has the blood of two vitally prominent ruling families coursing through his veins. Imagine little Lyanna Mormont announcing that to the Lords of the North. And … imagine how annoyed Littlefinger will be, seeing Jon’s reputation thus enhanced. So, as with most things, there will be some very good and some not so good to come of the general public knowing of Jon’s true parentage.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Martins wife told him not to kill Arya for one….
And people are overestimating this entire ”GOT/ASOIAF kills of main characters”
Ned was the father figure, the symbol of the old guard….etc. He died and affected our main characters.
Robb in the books barely appears, his death, to me was never proof that ”ASOIAF kills of main characters”, if anything the show made him a far more central character then he is in the books and made it seem that he was a ”main character”.
When it is simply not so.
The remaining Starks won’t die. Jon did, but the LoL brought him back, because he is a main character.
As I said, I think Dany will die in the very end and perhaps Jon. But the others are safe.
keltia,
I am glad you brought it up! Jaqen’s a season 1 character so a I am sure we are not the only ones wondering what’s next for him, if anything?
Haha YES about the cells. For the longest time I tried to do the math on IF Syrio was arrested rather than killed could he have killed “Jaqen” in the cells, taken his face and that’s why Rorge and Biter were afraid of “Jaqen.” Unlikely, bordering on impossible, I know. The math/timing (in book and show) just doesn’t add up imo ☹️.
It’s lingering with me now too. What was Jaqen arrested for? Did he want to be caught? Why were Rorge and Biter so afraid of him?
For a show that had Jon resurrected after some manscaping and a few R’hollr chants, I can accept that Arya would survive her wounds. Suspension of belief and heavy plot armor.
What I would have loved to see, in regards to Arya’s stabbing, is a Jaquen vision while doped up on milk of the poppy. Maybe a vision of him giving her some of that magic water from the HoBW before slipping back into sleep. Jaquen told the Waif to not let her suffer, and I would think he would keep tabs on her, so I think his softness for Arya would’ve caused him to help her heal. This magic, much like that used on Jon, would have explained her healing well enough to fight the Waif. Jaquen would know that Arya would fight back.
Anyway, I didn’t mind the multiple episodes of blind training. It might not give a ton of movement to the characters arc but a “one and done” episode and then her sight is back would feel rushed. Much like the Sansa in Winterfell. We had a few episodes of build-up to what equaled her rape, then a few episodes of seeing that it is a pattern she is enduring. Had it jumped from wedding night in one episode to Sansa and Theon jumping from the walls the next, then the impact could’ve been dismissed. Not that her experience wasn’t horrid enough with one night with Ramsay but the struggle sweetens the reward. It’s the same with Arya for me. I don’t want to see characters I like suffer but when they finally come out the other side of it, it feels like a rebirth as well.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
I think that Arya, now knowing that she is truly Arya Stark, wanted to “face” Jaqen. There’s been an unexplained affinity between the two of them since their first meeting and neither Arya nor I believed he would kill her. She also may have considered the utility of having a face (a lovely young serving girl, perhaps?) from the place now occupied by that of the Waif’s.
Thronetender,
Do you give any chance to R and L having a secret marriage that legitimized Jon? Would a legit Jon matter in your opinion? I think the only person it’d matter to is Dany.
Also, to pay the “debt” to the Faceless god. Both Jaqen and the Waif kept on and on about how “a” face was owed. Not a specific face, just someone’s face. So, Arya delivered a face and was able to walk away. I think that Jaqen’s slight smile at the end meant that HE considered the debt paid and that Arya would be free from further retribution from the HoBaW. I hope so, anyway. Girl has enough problems.
I don’t agree!
I have this hunch that both Arya and Sansa will die (the “pure” Starks). Similarly, Tywin Lannister’s line will be wiped out. Jon, Tyrion (I think he’s not Tywin’s) and Daenerys will live, but she is clearly barren (the show has emphasized this quite a few times) and will not be able to pass on her genes.
I am no expert on the accepted marriage practices of the Targaryans at that time; I don’t know if polygamy was acceptable then. There are lots of other people on here who know that stuff better than I do, and maybe they will enlighten us. (not being snarky here, I really love learning the back stories of this stuff.) But … if it were acceptable, I hope they were married. To me, that would be very cool.
There is one facet to that possibility that made me question it though – how dreadful would that make Rhaegar’s current wife, Elia, feel? Not good. Now, we already know that he shamed Elia by trotting past her at the Tourney to give the wreath of blue roses to Lyanna. That was bad enough. Carrying Lyanna off, whether by her consent or not, would also bring a big shame to Elia. People would consider that a very romantic, very passionate action, passion directed toward another woman and not his wife. She would complain to her family and the Martells would not be so happy with the Targaryans, I would think, even though that has never been mentioned in the show. Therefore, I always wondered why Doran Martell would want an alliance with Dany. Wouldn’t he be upset that a Targaryan had shamed his sister?
Which, to me, kind of makes sense why, in the show, the Sand Snakes killed Doran and Trystane, thus ending the Martell line. Well, except for the remaining Snakes. With the ruling Martells gone, there shouldn’t be a hint of the anger that might have been felt toward the Targaryans, making an Ellaria/Varys/Olenna pact with Dany even stronger. I hope this makes sense.
Rygar,
Ry, where have you been? There was an entire thread about penises and you, the one most qualified to lead the discussion, were nowhere to be seen!
S6 had the most “THIS is why I watch the show” moments for me, so it’s my fave for that reason. If we can only have 10 episodes a year I’d rather have it fast paced and not always spelling things out, than show us everything and we all die of old age long before getting the conclusion. After 5 series of being emotionally abused as an audience member there were moments of real hope in S6 that things will be ok and the good guys will win. I don’t care if GRRM said it will be bittersweet or whatever. I have until S7 for my dreams to be smashed once again so LA LA LA CAN’T HEAR YOU! 😀
Mihnea,
I saw an article the other day complaining that Game of Thrones had become too safe and that they should have left Jon dead.
Of course, such interpretations ignore the fact that the only reason they were able to include shock deaths of main characters in the past was because of the existence of other main characters to shoulder the mantle of the story’s heroes/protagonists.
If Jon had died, who takes his place in the story?
Ned and Robb/Catelyn’s deaths were not just for the sake of it, but to move the story forwards and change the focus.
I think they still have room for another Stark death and I agree with you that Daenerys could die. And Cersei and perhaps Jaime could both die too.
But these will all occur at a necessary juncture; not just for the sake of it. It’s never been just for the sake of it.
For example, Cersei’s death will likely come at a time where her role as antagonist comes to an end and the focus shifts to the White Walkers once and for all.
Some people’s interpretation of how edgy and willing to kill off main characters the show is seem to have misunderstood the purpose of those deaths to begin with.
LOL that’s exactly what it was, too. Manscaping. lol
keltia,
But Jaqen really isn’t the Jaqen that we knew from season 2. Apparently it’s the form that people in the House of B & W are taking when they deal with Arya? Because remember the one “Jaqen” drank the poison and died at the end of season 5. Really another mystery about the Faceless Men that I guess will never be resolved.
And this Jaqen did already try to have her killed (sent the waif after her). Who knows. The ending to the House of B & W was so depressingly awful, probably my least favorite thing of the season.
Question to someone who remembers: on the show, did Bran have the same vision that Dany had in the House of the Undying, where the throne room of Kings Landing is shown with a burned out ceiling and snow falling through? I was thinking of writing on whether or not I believe Dany survives to the end, but I couldn’t remember if Bran had the same vision she had.
Thronetender,
I think so.
Holy Shit…THANK YOU!!!!
You are the first poster that has mentioned this and it has bugged me all along with the ToJ stuff. Missing out of all of this is the fact that Rhaegar was married and while plural marriages weren’t shamed in the Targ line, Rhaegar still shamed his wife. He also left her in Kings Landing when he bolted with Lyanna, knowing full well that his Father was crazy and the Starks would be seeking “justice” for Lyanna’s disappearance. If I recall correctly, Rhaegar did mentioning about doing something about his insane Father but what about Elia and their two children? He had enough loyal people to him to move them to Dorne, even if Daddy was holding them prisoner. His best guards sent to protect Lyanna and lil’ Jon, but no one left behind to protect Elia and the babes?
Oberyn mentioned Rhaegar leaving Elia for another woman but his vengeance was towards the Lannisters for her death. But the Targs, specifically Rhaegar, are just as responsible. With the Martells being wiped out, this is a moot point now because they just want to get back at the Lannisters for Oberyn’s death but would Doran, if still around in the how, really align with Dany since it’s her family that shamed his and played an equal part in the death of his sister?
I don’t expect any of this to come into the show, of course, because I don’t think they would want to “soil” Jon being the product of a “forbidden love story” but it all goes so much deeper. The actions of his parents caused the death and destruction of two families.
I do think Lyanna went willingly but for the girl who told Ned that Robert won’t change (his whoring ways), for her to be willing to go with a man who would shame his wife (and their children) seems out of character for a girl revered for being independent and headstrong.
This is why the ToJ stuff, while great to get confirmation, didn’t emotionally resonate at all for me because pieces of the puzzle feel like they are being ignored in favor of harlequin romance.
keltia,
No fears – the kindly man just stays where he is, because the book that would include that chapter hasn’t been published yet 🙁
I thought that smile said the same thing, but somehow I don’t think he’d kill her. If anything,he’d help her – maybe if shes dying he’ll come back to give her mercy? (not that I want her to die, just an example of why he would reappear) And not surprised we haven’t had a curtain call – he hasn’t died (that we know of)
Tycho Nestoris,
Gosh I don’t remember it at all. What chapter, do you remember? (I really don’t want to reread the book and find out!)
LatrineDiggerBrian,
To put Waifs face on the wall, to possible drink from the fountain (tho we don’t see that) and to have a word or two with jacquen, basically ‘take this job and….’ (country music fans know how that ends 🙂
Thronetender,
Yes, this
ash,
Wait, what part specifically? I don’t wanna spoil nothing. Do you mean his location or that he “wants something” from the
I am hoping that the little we have seen of Euron (and the way he was portrayed at the kingsmoot) is to down play his character to then surprise everyone as the main villain. But going by the way they have portrayed characters and various storylines.. I shouldn’t get my hopes up.
But my prediction (in the books at least) is that Sansa will end up on the Iron Throne (as she is Elizabeth I) and Daenerys with her fleet/dragons/army are sort of representation of the Spanish Armada. What dealt a massive blow to the Spanish Armada? a storm. And who is the first storm and the last? Euron.
So I expect Dany to land but with a very reduced force.
In the show I hope for something similar but Euron taking Aurane Waters’ storyline. Mixed with his own.
ash,
I guess read Arya IX in aCoK. Then AFFC prologue.
Book spoiler from AFFC. A damn good spoiler too so proceed with caution.
OOooo ooo, good point, too! Great minds think alike? Omg, there is so much more I want to put down about Jon being from a “love that couldn’t be denied or quelled,” (which might explain his attraction to Ygritte. Like father, like son?) what a smooth talker Rhaegar must have been, and how well he must have sung his love songs, but I have to go now. Pesky errands to do.
BUT…
Here’s another one for you to consider with me … I went back just now and youtubed Dany’s visions in the HotU for the umpteenth time. Please take a look and tell me whether I’m crazy and too full of imagination or … Is that a figure of a great BIG spider in his web hanging from the ceiling of what’s left of the Throne room? It sure looks like a spider to me. Given what we now know of the depth of Vary’s involvement, Varys the Spider, that would be an amazing bit of teasing foretelling they gave us way back in season 2. Wow.
Lulus Mum,
Yes indced! (btw lulu where’ve you been haven’t seen you for a while thought you were taking a off season break)
Thronetender,
and saying please of coures 🙂
Thronetender,
I don’t remember that, either in the books or on the show.
Young Ayra Stark is a little firecracker and already had a personal kill list….
Being “No One” is unlike Arya… Ayra has too strong of a personality and the Waif knew it. Arya doesn’t like to be told where to go and what to do. Arya wanted to know more about the people she would kill and not kill the people she liked. Arya definitely learned many skills at the House of Black and White but she will always be Arya Stark and never “no one”.
Tycho Nestoris,
My spoiler is not working – I mean about him being part of the (…..) in some way.
Just read your second spoiler and never picked up on that. Would explain a lot. Ok, need to do some rereading, thanks
ash,
I love rereading. I didn’t pick up on this immediately at all. At least twice I read right over it and it didn’t click.
Yesterday I finally picked up on something that SANSA literally spells out to the reader.
I just thought of Brienne and Pod too. So many characters are converging. The finale left a nice clifflook (can i call it a cliffhanger?) for the riverlands.
🙂 yep
I absolutely LOVED season 6. It exceeded my expectations and became my favorite one, even better than season 4. Five 10s, two 9s, three 8s (two of them good eights) and three episodes being in my top 5 (ranks 1, 3 and 4) – that is much higher than any season before.
Sansa has officialy become my favorite character and I prefer her reunion with Jon hundred times over her stagnant book storyline, where she still remains LF’s pawn.
The Door, Battle of the Bastards and The Winds of Winter were masterpieces for me, worthy of any movie. Even if the events somehow happen in the next novel, I doubt I could enjoy it more.
I’m sure that completely distancing myself from the books (due to trauma westeros.org inflicted me with) and also from GoT Wikia (no offense to administrators), and paying regular visits to this site contributed much to these very positive feelings, which I have been experiencing through entire season (in a way that never happened before).
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
Yeah, that sounds like yet another click bait article predicated on the author’s poor understanding of narrative structure and coherent storytelling. There was no way to keep Jon dead without the entire story collapsing, hence why almost nobody believed it in 2011 and why almost nobody bought what HBO was selling during the 2015 off season. Whenever I see someone make an argument like this, it immediately tells me that they prioritize cheap shocks and subversive writing purely for the sake of it over narrative payoff and constructing a cohesive and impactful character arc.
This pervasive inability to reconcile personal preference with the fundamental rules of effective storytelling are part of the reason why I no longer bother with most written reviews. Bonus points in this case for the complete failure to recognize that, in a story which famously killed off the Stark patriarch, followed by the matriarch and eldest son who tried to avenge him, killing off the next hero in line would have actually been the most predictable thing they could have done. But, you know…gotta drive up that article traffic somehow.
Tycho Nestoris,
Ive reread the books three different times, and you are right, I find something different each time. So I know what you mean
Lord Parramandas,
Amazing what a positive environment can do for one’s enjoyment of anything, really! we’ve had our issues here, (most people here have figured out that you can enjoy the book and the show, and be able to criticize either if nec – not everyone of course )but generally its a pretty good place to be
Sad tho that another site has taken you away from the books. I don’t think you need to do that. Its what got you into this story to begin with, right? I’d say do a reread of them over the long off season. The story will be different from the shows but as Tycho says, you’ll find things you never noticed or thought of before
Andrew,
I totally agree with you
It’s going to begin with Deny wailin’ on King’s Landing; except, I haven’t seen her do something like that yet. She hasn’t sent large numbers of soldiers into all-out war. She’s used guerrilla tactics and she’s staged coups, instead.
If Cersai has turned KL into a scene from Apocalypse Now, then the Flea Bottom residents, especially,(who threw their dung at her in the streets) will be dying for a savior; because Cersai doesn’t forget, or forgive.
I’ve been wondering too about Qyburn’s potential in making more Mountains out of the dead. Then, Cersai would have her own little wight army – terrifying!
That final scene of Deny, that didn’t have dialogue, was full of expressive pictures!
The way they are all standing at attention: The Unsullied are at attention. I can’t imagine them making the whole voyage that way.
Dany and her team are standing on deck in a box formation, with Dany wearing her dragon dress. I don’t think she woke up on a random morning and put that on! In fact, none of them are wearing sailing clothes.
The Dothraki, though! They have gained their sea legs! They are on deck wrangling rope and hauling bags and feeding the horses!
They are prepared for something! Gee…I wonder what?! 🙂
ash,
I read the first book a couple months before TV series started without any knowledge about the story or the TV series itself. Book 2 followed shortly after that and I’ve read book 3 during season 1. But it was actually after season 1 when I really became invested into the books. Book 4 was released in late 2011 in my country and book 5 a year after. I’ve read the books for the second time, this time paying more attention to the story and the characters. I used to re-read the books every year before the TV series (2012, 2013, 2014). But with TV series passing by, GoT Wikia becoming more and more subjective, biased towards the books and passive-agressive towards the show, and pointless wait for the next book, I found that my interest in the books is slowly fading, so I haven’t re-read them before season 5 in 2015.
But everything became much worse when I experienced westeros.org (which I have mistaken for a fansite) in its nastiest purist form after season 5. Trust me, I actually tried to read them again a couple days ago but I simply couldn’t do it. The bitter taste in my mouth was too much.
…As for the 6th season, at first, I felt like I’d taken a wrong turn down a road and got lost. That is, until I began rewatching the series DVD (starting at season 2).
Everything lines up! The new season fits perfectly with what went before.
ash,
Evening chuck *waves* just had a couple of really busy weeks at work so wasn’t able to come play on here for the final episode or aftermath. I tried catching up with all the comments but there’s too many of them, so I read the most interesting looking threads and just dived straight back in here. So expect me to repeat things others have already discussed to death as if I’m the first one to think of it. Just like normal, really! GoT life picked me, I cannot stay away for long. And for anyone from the UK of a certain age: remember Game of Thrones is for life, not just the in-season 😀
I kind of thought that’s what might happen to Septa Unella, after the Mountain is done playing with her. She will be mostly dead, like he was when Qyburn got his hands on him. So there will be a matched set of QZombies
I think it’s very possible that the penultimate episode of next season will end with the Night King singing Bob Seger’s “Night Moves” and doing his signature “Come at me bro” pose from “Hardhome” while showing off his fancier dance steps, in defiance of Mance Rayder’s edict “We don’t moonwalk for anyone beyond the Wall.”
The last episode of next season will involve most of the surviving characters marrying each other, and discovering the morning after that they’re all siblings. (Gross? Yes, but they’re in the great game now, and the great game is icky.)
Thronetender,
That’s even more macabre, and right up Cersai’s alley! All Unella did was whack her on the head with a ladle, let her go hungry and thirsty and stare at her naked body while ringing a bell. To end up a “QZombie”, as you said, that’s a punishment that far exceeds the crime!
Unella: bride of The Mountain!
Thronetender,
We were talking else thread about maybe seeing the bride of frankenstein, ala Frau Blucher (neigh!) (Kinda ironic, here we have Qyburn making undead, when there are a bunch of them, waiting behind the wall!)
It is indeed right up her alley, especially now. And I agree, the punishment is greater than the crime, but the audience seems to love it. Geez, I was hoping they would skip the Frey pies stuff, figuring that the Thenns were enough, but everybody on here clamored for them and were ecstatic when they got pies. Ewww for the pies, double Ewww if they do the QZombies. But it could happen
Well, Rhaegar is responsible for destroying his House, and a 300-year-old dynasty, and also for Robert’s Rebellion. His father may have been the Mad King, but he himself seemed to have been a complete fool who was never fit for being King (openly insulting a great House to which his wife belonged to) or as a father (as evidenced by the fact that he did nothing to protect his two children who were left at King’s Landing, and not even sent to Dorne or Dragonstone.) Two in a row – Aerys and Rhaegar – completely destroyed a Kingdom.
I know you haven’t read the books so you may be going with the idea that what D&D have done lines up with what George has written and that they’ve been following an outline and notes for his remaining unpublished story. I can’t say they aren’t completely but they’ve certainly made some moves that seem like changes from what the books will do.
– Rickon and Osha (and Shaggydog) are alive and Davos is looking for them. They’re supposedly on the island of Skagos.
– Bran doesn’t seem likely to die and Summer is still alive.
– Sansa is still at the Eyrie and according to an excerpt from TWoW, still being a whiny little bitch and thinking about boys and marriage more than anything.
– Ramsay married Jeyne Pool and passing her off as Arya. Sansa filled Jeyne’s role whom escaped with Theon as Sansa did, but, she’d have less reason to flee to Castle Black.
– Arya is still training in a TWoW excerpt and an acolyte FM. There isn’t a sign of her leaving yet. She also has dreams and a connection with Nymeria, who is leading a pack of wolves in Westeros. The waif is a friend to her and the Kindly Man (Jaqen) is kind to her.
Other than Jon in his stabbed condition at the end of ADwD none of the others appear to be in much danger.
Regardless, I can see a couple of them dying.
If I had to choose I’d hope that Sansa is one. That character just grates on me in the books. Sophie has ensured that it remained that way on the show. I’ve liked her for about 1 1/2 episodes during the entire series – first episode this season and through her fireside chat with Jon. They’re trying to transform her into something the books hasn’t yet and neither thing works for me.
Rickon does feel expendable in the books, but I don’t know that if he’ll find the show’s end.
Jon seems destined to be the reborn Azor Ahai or the prince that was promised. Mel has spoken about it too much for something not to come of it. That person is suppose to come to light when the cold and darkness descends upon the world. That’s about to happen.
I have no idea where George is taking Arya. It could lead to a similar path as the show, but in either case I can’t see them killing her off. The question is, what would become of her and where does she go when it’s all over?
And now Jon, with his practical Stark blood and less wild upbringing, is working to save and restore it from destruction by these “alien” beings and situations none of them had a hand in causing. that’s something good, no?
I absolutely adored Season 6. I’m in agreement with many people here who have already expressed their opinions – this was my favorite season of Game of Thrones to date.
It was a close call between Season 6 and Season 4 for most of the season. Through the first five episodes, Season 6 had the very slight edge, thanks especially to “Home”, “Book of the Stranger”, and “The Door” – all of which I thought were Top 10 caliber episodes for the show (and there was much to love in “The Red Woman” and “Oathbreaker” as well). Season 4 pulled back ahead during the Episode 6-Episode 8 stretch, which I consider to be more of a testament to the incredible strength of “The Laws of Gods and Men”, “Mockingbird”, and “The Mountain and the Viper” than any real knock against “Blood of My Blood”, “The Broken Man”, and “No One”. I thought all of those hours were very strong as well (some small bumps, which others have already discussed at length).
At that point, I thought Season 4 might hold on to the crown because of my love for “The Watchers on the Wall” and “The Children” – both were Top 5 episodes for me before Season 6 had started (and “Watchers” still is). But “Battle of the Bastards” took my breath away, and “The Winds of Winter” … well, I said on the night that it aired that it was my favorite episode of the entire series. I’ve since seen it five times, and my love for it hasn’t abated – it’s only deepened. I could make a strong case that it’s my favorite episode of television ever, from any show.
Admittedly, part of the reason I love the hour so much is because it so elegantly paid off a great many storylines and character arcs from the previous six seasons of this wonderful show. If a similar episode had aired earlier in the show’s run, I still would have loved it immensely (particularly the wildfire sequence, which has a claim on being the best sequence that Game of Thrones has ever done). But by delivering it now, they capitalized on sixty episodes worth of emotional and narrative investment and created a masterpiece.
So, as it stands, my current ranking of the seasons would be 6, 4, 3, 5, 1, 2. Season 6 and Season 4 have separated themselves slightly, while Season 3, Season 5, and Season 1 are all very close and could change positions very easily with further consideration. And I still love Season 2, as I love every episode of the show.
The next item on my agenda – other than all of the real-world things that got backburned because when Game of Thrones season comes around, my life basically goes on hold for two months 😉 – is a complete rewatch of Season 6, from beginning to end. I look forward to this exercise every year, revisiting the season as a complete piece of work. Inevitably, I find it even better and more compelling than before. I discover connections and callbacks that I had previously missed, even when watching the episodes carefully. And as much as I love the weekly conversations and excitement that surrounds each episode on Game of Thrones and lights the Internet on fire, that passion really can’t be replicated once we’re past the initial airing. On repeat viewings, I find it more rewarding to view each season as a ten-hour movie, which tends to wash away all of the ebbs and flows of each storyline and bring the whole experience together as a cohesive whole.
Tycho Nestoris,
Just finished those two chapters.
I see that it makes sense, but I never would have guessed that. Interesting,thanks for the heads up
This! Which is why anyone that says what a great cat he was for singing to the “peasants” needs to STFU.
“Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaegar died.” STUF Jorah. What was noble about any of this? Where is the honor in any of his actions?
The fact that they have tried, in show verse, to paint Rhaegar as some honorable Prince makes me gag. I know the Rhaegar mentions have been few and far between in the show but Dany’s plight to take back the crown from those who “wronged” her family is pretty empty for me and why her quest hasn’t had me cheering or supportive. She need not look any further than her own family for the downfall. Both her big Brother’s where massive assholes.
Sorry, you can continue to eat that dick. Not sure why I am being deleted.
Because I touch you at night.
Honestly if you think the Ed and J scene wasnt good because Ed is a minor forgettable character then you should suck your own. It was two amazing actors killing their lines. Something this show has very little of, but when it happens it deserves to be recognized.
Same with Davos and Mel in ep 10. Carice nailed it, so did Liam.
Did you delete my comment for stating that HappyCool is clueless or for writing that the Israeli guys have a lifestyle of teenagers?
I do not agree.
All the old peeps no longer frequent this site. Those that have taken over are extremely dull. So I have stayed away.
And Sue refuses to see me after our first date.
However, I an intrigued by this phallic thread. Point me in the right direction, preferably vagina first.
ash,
aCoK page 691 (gold hbo paperback): Jaqen passed a hand down his face from forehead to chin, and where it went he changed. His cheeks grew fuller, his eyes closer; his nose hooked, a scar appeared on his right cheek where no scar had been before. And when he shook his head, his long straight hair, half red and half white, dissolved away to reveal a cap of tight black curls.
aFfC page 20-21 (red hbo paperback): The alchemist pulled his hood down. He was just a man, and his face was just a face. A young man’s face, ordinary, with full cheeks and the shadow of a beard. A scar showed faintly on his right cheek. He had a hooked nose, and a mat of dense black hair that curled tightly around his ears.
…But to be fair English isn’t my native language,
There were like 4 separate sentences that could’ve gotten that post deleted lol. You were on quite a rampage.
Rygar,
Sorry, you can continue to eat that dick. Not sure why I am being deleted.
Sorry, didn’t realize you were a petulant little child who throws tantrums and hurls insults to anyone who disagrees with you. But I have now noted that and will respond accordingly by scrolling past anything further you post here that doesn’t manage to get deleted. Thanks for the heads-up!
Umm, if you don’t see that referring to someone as ‘that smug Jew’ is incendiary and likely to be perceived by many readers as anti-Semitic, you need to do a bit of soul-searching, dude.
Firannion,
Agree. Well said. Many posters here have stated similar ideas. If D&D are so concerned with epic episodes increasing in epicness as fan service, they are not serving the fans who think as you do.
It seems the actors are just one-dimensional pieces on a cyvasse board, being moved around in between battles and CGI scenes.
True? Same for Alt Shift X… Still nothing seen from him so far!
Black Raven,
I have been waiting for alt. At this point I feel like he’s not uploading an ep 10 video☹️
Tycho Nestoris,
ash,
Oooo! You-all are talking about my favorite remaining Big Questions from the books!
These are the things that I cannot wait to see in the coming seasons!
Rygar,
Rygar! Have missed your devil-may-care persona around here! There have been many times that I’ve thought, “This thread is screaming for a Rygar penis joke.” See the discussions after the Ian McShane episode in which the Hound takes a piss and some horses provide an interesting background…
Yes, Jon is definitely “something good”. 😉 And that has little to do with “blood” for me. Less about genes and more about individuals making the right but hard choices.
Well the show paints Rhaegar as both good (Selmy) and bad (Robert B). Most of fandom worships him. Of course, if Elia Martell and Lyanna Stark had interchanged positions in his life, that is, if he had been married to Lyanna and had two children with her and then crowned Elia and ran off with her after abandoning Lyanna, he would have been roundly villified. 😉
As for Daenerys, I don’t hold her father or her brothers against her (and I notice that the only family heirloom she wears is her mother’s ring), just like I don’t hold Jon’s paternal family (and also his mother who didn’t inform her own family and her bethroted) against him.
To get it out of the way, my favourite season order: 1>4>6>3>5>2. Honestly, Season 1 had to go carefully and on a frugal budget for the show to survive. It established the multi-layered world and the key families involved. It was coherent, fresh, unpredictable, and more. Had the later funding levels been available and some of the now tried-and-true directors been discovered and available, it would have been ever so much better.
Re: the Braavos story. Arya fan that I am, I had to swallow my skepticism about her recovery and just enjoy the chase that led to the entrapment of the Waif. I think the healing well and possibly that balm that Lady Crane used might have sped up Arya’s recovery, but still… . But the HOB&W brought mystery, menace, and a personal growth opportunity to the most Starky of the Starks, and Ned’s favourite. Her training allowed her to kill two of the family’s enemies (Walder and Trant). Without that, we’d be going into Season 7 still without an actual Stark avenging the family against their major enemies. Also, the brilliance of the theatre troupe scenes is overlooked by everyone. Besides providing comic relief for a grim series, we got to see the reach of Lannister propaganda, the world’s distorted views of Ned, Joffrey, Cersei, and Tyrion, the restoration of Arya’s humanity and identity. These scenes also allowed D&D to comment about actors–their arrogance, vulnerability, attention-getting, diligence, openness to suggestion, etc. It was a great inside joke, and also provided a very sympathetic healer for Arya. The theatre thread may even have told us where Arya will end up if she survives the show, exploring terra incognita west of Westeros. Granted, these three play scenes didn’t do much to thrust the main story forward, but they added an unexpected layer and a lot of interest. And…in the end, we got Frey pies!
Off Topic:
Wow, just watched HBO’s ‘The Night Of’ and what an amazing start.
It felt so gritty and realistic and all the camera shots and dialog and acting were just top notch, just judging by this first episode alone, IMO it is even better then season 1 of True Detective.
Must watch TV for sure, just giving you guys a heads up!
Rygar,
You know what can be off-putting about this forum at times? The ostentatiousness of some of it’s posters. Not everyone who has an interest and likes to discuss this TV show is naturally as witty or well versed as yourself or others like you who seem to look down their noses dismissively at others less fortunate than themselves.
Eh, I personally believe WoW will be published, be it this year, the next, or even further down the line. I do think Martin is fairly close (the operative word being ‘fairly’) to getting that thing done. My main concern is with ADoS which under the best circumstances won’t see the light of day before early 2020’s, if ever. And of course, there is speculation — supported even by Martin’s chief editor herself — that there may be an eighth book after all.
Unfortunately, there is a strong, let’s say 50/50, possibility that Martin won’t be able to finish his magnum opus.
He said a few hours ago that it won’t be long now. By the looks of his tweet on July 7th, it’s a big one, which is why it’s taking him so long. 🙂
https://mobile.twitter.com/AltShiftX/status/751101395579736064
The Winds of winter is announced on the french Amazon for March 10th
https://www.amazon.fr/Song-Ice-Fire-Winds-Winter/dp/000648610X
Haven’t seen it on the american or the british one.
What do you think ?
Hariette Tuttle,
Think nothing before Martin says so on his blog.
Those were his own words. When the book is done, he will tell us so.
Firannion,
I agree.
Jared,
Lord Parramandas,
Well said. Completely agree!
Lord of Coffee,
If you knew who I was then you would know that eating a dick is far from an insult when coming from me.
That’s what she….. oh nevermind.
Tycho Nestoris,
Yes. And then (more book spoilers from AFFC):
These events fascinate me too!
A key reason why I keep returning to AFFC! And so, will we see any of this in the show? I do hope we do –
Exactly my thoughts. Green-seeing without permission. A stupid teacher, who didn’tr told Bran about the danger and how to avoid getting marked, a genocide if the children of the forest, Hodor dead, summer dead, and no regret! Not a world like “sorry”.
Agree completely about Lyanna/Elia, if tables had been turned.
I guess I don’t really hold what the Mad King/Rhaegar did against Dany but I always felt that she wanted to go “home”, a home she never knew, and take back the crown because she felt her family was wronged. Her family wasn’t destroyed by outside parties, people she views as usurpers, it all started from within the family fold.
And, I will probably be alone in this, but I always felt bad for Robert. Shit King, shit husband/father, but he was never able to let go what was taken from him. Lyanna may not have wanted to be his Bride, she may have loved another but from Robert’s rose-colored glasses, she was his “true love”. I don’t think he would’ve taken her feelings for Rhaegar lying down, he is a born warrior and would fight for her, but Robert respected Ned and House Stark. If anyone could get through to him in the early days, it would’ve been Ned.
But then, we wouldn’t have a story.
Zoyoguba,
He didn’t had the time for that.
He was trapped in visions and chased by WW, hardly the time for crying.
Then they were before a mysterious man they didn’t know anything about.
Then he went directly in the TOJ.
Besides there are more ways to handle loss then crying. Shutting yourself in and trying to forget what happened, avoid talking about it, is just as common.
And in my experience it is actual more common.
Mihnea,
I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a scene on the cutting room floor between him and Meera consoling one another.
We’ll probably see Bran discuss their deaths next season anyway. Perhaps when he finds out Rickon is dead too.
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
Honestly I doubt it, look at how she reacted to Jojens death. She didn’t want to speak about it and looked depressed, resigned, more then emotional.
And then there is what D&D said about Bran loosing a bit of himself now that he is the 3ER. Having so much knowledge and knowing his friends, not to mention all the other things he might now, death was inevitable would affect anyone.
I actually think he’ll know about Rickon’s death before he returns to WF.
I expect him rather to be depressed and resigned, because he knows these events were inevitable, rather then him getting emotional and/or cry…etc.
kells,
“but he was never able to let go what was taken from him. Lyanna may not have wanted to be his Bride, she may have loved another but from Robert’s rose-colored glasses, she was his “true love””
Lyanna didn’t have the obligation to love him back just because he loved her, and she wasn’t a thing that was “taken from him”.
New video explaining episode 10 from Alt Shift X who says he will be back again in August.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=naUttrBVRzs
Ashara D,
spaewife,
Woo Hoo haha!
Halfman,
About time! I am really looking forward to this. Thanks!
Re: the end game with Dany, Tyrion and Jon (and, perhaps, Bran), anything can happen. The possibilities leave their final destinies open to any of 2 or 3 directions. It’ll be fun not knowing, afaic. But I do believe those 3 will wind up together in some way.
LF will be a complete PIA next season. There’s no believable storyline that consists of Sansa falling under his sway, unless she suffers a major head injury and ensuing amnesia. Seriously, though, that just wouldn’t make any sense. Nor would post Hardhomme, post rez Jon ever be stupid enough not to see through any contrived conflict with Sansa. LF will betray them, somehow, though.
Jaime will be forced to kill Cersei just as he was forced to kill the Mad King, and then himself. Suspecting this development won’t make it any less heart-wrenching when it happens. I think Tyrion will try to save him, but will fail.
Brienne will die heroically, probably saving Sansa.
We know Mel meets Arya again.
The Citadel probably holds the key to defeating the NK.
Arya is so often described as “feral” that I’m starting to suspect she either goes off into the sunset with Nymeria, or permanently wargs into Nymeria, or something along a wolven destiny.
Please show, just don’t kill off Jon, Davos, or Lady Mormont… at least not until S8E6.
Jack Bauer 24,
Wow…
Andrew,
I obviously liked the season more than you did. By all means read the books but actually (in my opinion at least) Tyrion’s story in ADWD gets draggy even more than it does in the show (he doesn’t appear in AFFC). I don’t understand the hate Emilia Clarke gets – she may not be the best actress in the world but she’s not (at least in my opinion) the worst.
Marlana,
The cyvasse games were one of the things I disliked in ADWD (I’m not saying it was all bad – just AFFC and ADWD aren’t up to the standard of the first three books (to me at least)).
When Jon said to the North folk the enemy brings the storm, or is the storm? it makes me think of the one who’s heading their way to conquer the realm for herself. Daenerys “Stormborn.” Part of me feels that the WW are something like plot device to test the various characters, a symbol of sorts, but they won’t end up swarming Westeros for a big all out war like everyone assumes. Dany seems to have shown most recently that she’s fair, level headed and kind rerouting the potential mad queen outcome but what if that’s just to throw us off? Maybe one of the dragons take a liking to Jon, he refuses to bend the knee to her and the big conflict is everyone having to choose sides and then a big battle. In this case, part of the bittersweet is that Jon/Dany won’t ralize they are blood relation until it’s too late. Maybe I’m onlythinkin thi because the alternative seems too cliche. Keyboard sucks I’m tired of going back fixing errors but it’s happened on three different laptops so must be the W10 we’re forced to use
ash,
I think you may have inadvertently hit on the answer to the WW problem. Two opposing armies of the undead! One created by the frozen North of the Wall gang (ice), the other by Qyburn in the much warmer climate of KL (fire). They can just fight each other for years on end while the rest sort themselves out. They can presumably be brought back repeatedly so we’d never run out of foot soldiers 😀
Rygar,
Awww did you get a date with Sue after all these years of pleading? Well done you! I think the penis marathon was after the episode when we first meet the theatre troop, when the guy who played Joffery waved his warty willy around. I am sure that GRRM and D&D read these comments to get ideas for the story and your penis talk influenced them. I wondered why they haven’t included my giant killer penguins or flying zombie nazi sharks yet but they are probably final series, final battle material 😀
Tootie,
Whoever said that the House of Black and White were ever honorable? Maybe in their eyes they are but at its most basic, they are an organization of trained assassins for hire. Nothing less, nothing more. Honorable? Is there really honor in what they do? They get paid for what they do. At least Arya does her killing for actual personal reasons and doesn’t charge a penny. More honor in that little sociopath than in the famed HoB&W.
Rickon didn’t zig zag because I would imagine that a 13 year old would be scared off his mind to actually have capacity to map out his impromptu run. And on the second point, perhaps if Jon and company had the luxury of time, they would have time to find enough metal to fuse armor for a giant, or I don’t know for some of their men but it seems to me that would have taken several weeks if not months of preparation. I think Jon’s army came together over a time of two or three weeks at most.
Tycho Nestoris,
Indeed I think that the persons you first mention
have a ‘network’ that rivals that of the weirwoods… and so we’ll see what happens in season 7.
I’d like to ‘predict’ that the Citadel will figure in terms of magic and not only in terms of Samwell’s awe of the books, chained as they are, there. But the lack of foreshadowing in the show of some book things especially
make me not too hopeful there.
There will, though, be something else that makes The Citadel of import, in the show, to the overall story. But what?
Jack Bauer 24,
They are a good looking couple, but I just can’t see it happening. Jon is sooo not Dany’s type, she would be bored with him. He would not be capable of “riding the dragon”, probably would be trembling like a leaf.
spaewife,
Of course she didn’t have an obligation to him. I didn’t say she did. I said from Robert’s point of view, she was his “true love”. He viewed her disappearance as a kidnapping. He didn’t think she went willingly. His betrothed disappears, not a word to her family or anyone, so yes, he did view her as being “taken” from all of them, Starks included.
I think the only reason the writers had Dany give Daario the boot is so they can hook her up with Jon. Dany used some lame excuse about needing to be free to marry to align with a powerful house, if needs be. Which sounds less like Dany, than her falling for an uber sensitive northern boy. This is Dany Targaryen, for shits sake. She is supposed to usher in a new way of leading in Westeros. She has the man-power, two strong houses backing her and dragons(!), yet she talks of having to marry for political purposes? Ha. Who is going to argue with a woman with two dragons if she shows up with a lover?
This is D&D hitting us over the head with a massive anvil. They want a Dany/Jon shag-fest, at least once before one of them bites it.
It is predictable and, yes, a bit nauseating (can we please have a “loving” story that doesn’t include family?) but both are hot actors and I think this has been the writers end game since the beginning.
I’m 100% on board with all of you who are hoping for mysterious and significant happenings to develop at the Citadel! It’s probably my favorite story thread going forward in TWoW. If there really is/was a
Maesters’ Conspiracy
, it could prove to be a bigger and older Game with higher stakes than any we have seen so far, short of the War for the Dawn itself. Keeping all my fingers and toes crossed that D & D don’t cut
Marwyn, his book of magical research, the Glass Candles and/or the Sphinx
out of the story altogether.
Thronetender,
Septa Unella as Bride of Frankenmountain – I like it!
Firannion,
The Maesters killed the dragons before. They will try it again or Euron is going to steal something from Oldtown. But that could be an interesting twist for Danny’s storyline. Maybe Qyburn knows something about it too.
Ok thanks for that info! It should be a cracker when he uploads it 🙂
Black Raven,
Here is it! Lets see if this link auto plays?
Kells,
Hit it on the nose. It’s’ them forcing the issue because they need to get from point A to point B. It was an unnatural progression of the story, just like the whole Jon and Sansa feud or Davos giving Mel a pep talk to bring back Jon. You’re absolutely right, she’s so powerful now she won’t need to align with anyone to take the 7 kingdoms. If Jon and Dany do fall in love, it will feel hollow.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Aye, only at the beginning 🙂 But yeah it would be too cheesy kid fantasy flick to have Jon mount a dragon. There can only be one. but I wouldn’t mind seeing them take a liking to him and nobody understands why at first.
ygritte,
I did not mean him riding Drogon, Rhaegal and Visirion 😉
Tycho Nestoris,
Agree it’s unlikely… alas…
There is still a small chance she may appear, and presumably Sam has to meet somebody in the show but there’s been no mentions of her or indeed I think of the four younger daughters, and they made Tyene be Ellaria’s daughter. Hmm.
However you’re right, Tycho Nestoris, that
on the show. I’d forgotten that, and I’ll bet most watchers had too. We’ll see. No mentions since then…
Fingers crossed…
LatrineDiggerBrian,
I know 🙂 I could see how there’d be some kind of attraction between the two, but I can’t picture them working out as they just don’t seem each other’s type. Hey I was just reminded of the article about the main actors getting pay raises for seasons 7 and 8 with some getting 100% increase per ep and now I wonder if that had any influence on the decision to do the shorter seasons. What do you think?
ygritte,
No way, HBO wants them to do 15 seasons. The actor’s salaries are chump change compared to what HBO is making on the series. I think D & D just want to end this thing, they’ve worked on it for a decade and are ready to move onto other things. That said, there probably isn’t that much story left to tell. But I think if they really wanted to they could have really stretched it out a couple of more seasons, or at least 20 more episodes.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
OK yeah I wasn’t sure, as when it comes to companies working with billions of dollars I guess I know nothing really. I thought I remembered some talk about them doing the shorter seasons in part due to the expenses being higher with more special effects, stunts, CGI or whatever.
That’s been viewer talk/rationale. “Oh, they’re only doing seven episodes? Well that makes sense since what they have left is probably going to be really expensive to do.”
Donna,
Black Raven,
Sorry guys, by the end of the Season I’m usually super busy and exhausted! I do plan on doing one but wanted to recharge my batteries a little. Plus there’s no rush to get it done before the next episode. 🙂 I’m beginning to work on it this week so keep an eye out for it in the next couple of weeks. As always I appreciate your interest.
Andrew,
I agree with a lot of this. For me the crux was that a lot of this season didn’t further the plot. This season would have been far better had it been limited to five or six episodes.
– Nothing happened in King’s Landing until the last episode. Obviously Marg had a plot, but the plot came to nothing. Obviously Cersei was plotting, but that took the form of standing around silently, wringing her hands for nine episodes. Nothing would have been lost had the events in episode ten been moved forward to episode 3. It would still give time for Tommen to make his announcement, Jaime to leave for Riverrun and return for Cersei’s coronation.
– Nothing happened in Meereen until the last two episodes. Nothing came of Tyrion’s deals with the slavers. Much like the people of King’s Landing, characters stood around, trying and failing to make interesting conversation for most of the season, while waiting for Dany to return…
– …and Dany could have returned far faster than she did. The episodes they spent on the Dothraki were a waste, as Dany used magic to win them instead of the kind of plotting that would have needed time to develop. She could have used this magic in episode two; hell, Drogon could have landed episode one and solved the problem without further use of confusing fire magic. Dany could have reached Meereen episode three or four. btw I agree that Emilia Clarke is less than ideal as Dany.
– There was no reason to send Yara and Theon east. Dany was always going to get the slaver navies; the few Greyjoy ships made no difference.
– There was no reason for Arya’s adventures with Lady Crane and with her troupe. Arya didn’t join the troupe. Lady Crane didn’t survive. There was no reason for Arya’s difficulties with the Waif, as these also came to nothing. I’d love to find out why Jaqen had that mysterious smile on his face, as he looked positively happy to let Arya go, but I never will. Arya could have reached Westeros episode 2 and cut Frey’s throat episode 4.
– Jon got resurrected, and nothing came of it. Show introduced an interesting possibility: Is Littlefinger-educated Sansa playing her brother for control of the North? The show, sadly, never developed this, leaving motivation hanging in space.
– Sandor came back, and we spent an entire episode with him and with McShane in the Riverlands. This came to, exactly, NOTHING.
Anyway, I will add that the novels suffered from this same issue: filler, filler, waste, waste.
So for me the high points were Bran’s visions, Hodor’s story, moments with lady Mormont, Battle of the Bastards, Riverrun and Jaime, Sam’s family, and the last episode.
ygritte,
I think they said they needed more time to do the huge sequences in the last episodes, so smaller episode count affords them that opportunity. But what they’re doing is pretty standard, having two shorter seasons to end it. I guess it’s more lucrative for them to split it into two shorter seasons because The Sopranos, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, and some others have handled it in the same way.
So….what happened to that Shae spotting in the Meereen set? That was actually a troll?
My own only gripe was that we got so little of the new Iron Islands characters. We got even less than Dorne back in season 5. Contrary to Dorne, I think the II subplot in season 6 was introduced rather organically in the first half of the season, after which it just dissapeared. I hope we’re getting much more in s7, because I really like the Iron Islands on the show. Aeron was perfectly cast in my opinion, while I’m still eager to see more of their very different version of Euron.
Apparently I am one of the very few people who thought that this season was weak. The final two episodes were amazing from a visual standpoint but I appreciate the character development that we got from the first few seasons and season 6 had little to none of those slow and quiet moments. It seemed like the showrunners were in such a rush to move on to the next thing that they forgot to tell stories that made sense. The Dorne storyline was crap, Arya’s was crap, the teleportation by several characters was crap, the Hound was cool but what purpose did it serve? Jon was brought back to life and everyone just accepted it like it was normal….so many poor decisions.
Best season for me. Arya’s pie was my fav moment, finally! All Freys must die. King in the North Part II, BOB, Hodor, and OMG so glad to see Benjen! TOJ was not as cool as I had hoped but man, that Ser Arthur Dayne, damn! Also, young Ned and young Hodor were wonderful. Very pleased with this season.
One of the D’s talks about Arya going down dark path and we should be worried for her and points to the “smile” after her killing Walder Frey, yet, at the same time Sansa legit smiled after killing her enemy and they seem to see it as a positive thing. Why the discrepancy? We should be concerned about Sansa’s dark path too then, but they don’t want to show their cards on that just yet I guess.
With regards to Arya the producer pointed out that the character is on a very “dark” path and has become a skilled “murderer.” Although not many were sad about the death of Walder Frey (David Bradley), Benioff explained that the fact that she smiled while he bled raises concerns about where the character goes from here.”
My predictions: Dany won’t sail into Blackwater Bay because Tyrion will tell her his strategy for defeating Stannis’ army there. She may use some of her fleet as a diversion there, but her main invasion will be by land from another direction.
Jaime will assemble the Lannister army to meet the invaders, but after he leaves Cersei will just blow up everything including herself, so in a way Tyrion will be responsible for her death.And we will see Dany walking through a snow covered, ruined Iron Throne Room.
Tyrion will talk his brother into making peace with Dany, assuming Dany doesn’t insist on killing him. It may be that Dany sends him north to help defeat the White Walkers, or sends him to the NW. That’s when he’ll meet up with Brienne.
Arya will meet up with The Hound again and they will resume their relationship. Both heading North. At some point Beric, Thoros and the Hound will be part of the forces who stand against The White Walkers with Jon.
Littlefinger has nowhere to go but the Vale or to make mischief in the North. He’s sort of stuck IMO. He may be tempted to go to King’s Landing, but once he hears about Dany’s invasion he will stay put believing he can fool the North easier. Except: White Walkers.
( still don’t see what the attraction of The North is to LF. It would seem his character would just have someone he can trust running things there, like Jon, while he moves down into the Riverlands and eventually to King’s Landing with the Vale army.)
I can see Littlefinger attempting to do some mischief and getting in so much trouble he goes sailing out the Moon Door. I haven’t yet figured out how, but I think that’s how he will die.
I see Bran going home to Winterfell and the Weirwood Tree there. I don’t see him taking down the Wall. I think Night King’s ability to break into the cave was based on the Three Eyed Raven living there. The CoF set up a magic barrier to protect him. When the NK marked Bran he became a little GPS to track the 3 eyed Raven.
I think the Wall will come down when the Horn is blown. They have already shown that horns were a way to signal, so they will finally use THE horn and the Wall will fall. Biblical.
I’m also predicting that Sam will tell Jon they have to make more weapons from dragon stone which is found at Dragonstone. Sir Davos probably takes men there to begin assembling weapons. Sam & Gilly will live at Winterfell with Jon and Sansa. I can see Thormund either going to CB or staying around Winterfell.
My predictions: Dany won’t sail into Blackwater Bay because Tyrion will tell her his strategy for defeating Stannis’ army there. She may use some of her fleet as a diversion there, but her main invasion will be by land from another direction.
Dorne makes a lot of sense.
Sir Davos probably takes men there to begin assembling weapons.
Haha, Davos’ face when he shows up at Dragonstone and Gendry is hammering steel with (only) a crown on. “I rode in eh circle and by da time I got back er’one was gone so I took de castle for me’self.”
Jen@HouseStark,
….That little girl cut up a man and stuffed him inside a crust. Maybe that’s not so cool for the man, or the girl.
Tycho Nestoris,
I think you’re quoting from the blog post? There’s a whole bunch of mountains Between Dorne and Highgarden, Kings’s Landing, etc. And, a whole lot of desert between Sunspear and those mountains.
Anon,
Whoops, that was a reply to
Roz’s Ghost. I must not have clicked the link.
I made an assumption that in the show-verse Dany could land in Sunspear and head to KL w/o much fuss about the Boneway or The Prince’s Pass or any real logistical hindrances.
Now if I am looking at a map for landing points, I wonder if Dragonstone to Duskendale might serve? With the expedited season, I wouldn’t be shocked if not much time is spent on how Dany gets from a port to KL.
Tycho Nestoris,
You’re right. They may not even bother to pay lip service to logistics…like with Hardhome, because in the end, none of us will really care. Still, it’s fun to hash it all out.
Anon,
Oh I agree! I enjoy the little details concerning locations. They may as well be characters to me. Now that I think about it, I would like for Dany to set foot on Dragonstone. If nothing else, to give her a moment to catch her breath. The last thing I want is for her to roll up dragons, dothraki and ironborn blazing. She should see this new world and try to understand it before she “takes” her seat. Heck, maybe she could stash the troops and pull a Rhaegar walking the land in disguise for a short while?
Tycho Nestoris,
Your idea of Dany taking a moment to “catch her breath” and see her new world, walking the land, etc. is a excellent point. It makes me think: Dany could land elsewhere and subdue any resistance from other houses and win over the people as she marches toward King’s Landing.
I’m thinking of it as tightening the noose. She may even be able to blockade the harbor and not engage/attack Cersei st first. Just let Cersei sit there and watch as the noose tightens, becoming a prisoner of King’s Landing. Of course, she could also feint and let the Dorne fleet attack from the sea. Again, a diversion.
I was also thinking Dany will stop by the Iron Islands on her way (is it “on her way”?) and dispose of Euron first. Since Dany has sided with his niece and nephew, and has made a pact with them, Euron will have few choices except to try to ally himself with Cersei.
Is that a possibility? Cersei may think it’s a smart move to let Euron fight Dany and save her own resources. Dany, Yara & Theon need to neutralize Euron before the major battle for Westeros.
I don’t know the route from the Iron Islands to Kings Landing, but Cersei & Jaime will definitely be alerted to the huge fleet and the dragons before too long. I think with the whole Riverlands interlude this past season, we saw the emergence of Jaime as the diplomat, the peacemaker, who used his wits instead of his sword.
Guess being one handed will do that to you. But I can see him urging Cersei to negotiate. After all. Going back to Casterly Rock as an ally of the new Queen Danaerys, would be preferable to a battle he can’t win.
My finaly prediction…for now is, that in Season 7, the focus of probably 65% – 70% of the attention will be on Dany’s war to conquer Westeros. The threat from the White Walkers and Littlefinger, Bran, Arya, Sam, Edd, Brienne, & the NW, etc. in the North will be the tension builder, with a sense of foreboding setting the stage for Season 8.
Waaaaay out of her way. The Iron Islands are on the opposite side of the continent from King’s Landing. That would like a fleet leaving West Africa intent on overthrowing Washington DC heading there by way of San Francisco.
It would make much more sense for Dany’s fleet to clash with Euron’s near Oldtown, if he is headed that way (as in the books) and if she makes landfall in Dorne. How Cersei + Euron figures into that scenario is unclear, however.
Father’s Day Sunday June 18th 2017 will be another full Jon Snow episode… Jon Snow will probably learn one way or another that he is Rhaegar Targaryen’s bastard and not Ned Stark’s bastard.
The Tower of Joy might not be finished yet… Howland Reed might see baby Jon at the Tower of Joy and for the Father’s Day 2017 cliffhanger finale Howland Reed appears in present time.
Littlefinger probably already knows who Jon Snow’s real parents are and Littlefinger will probably use this info to convince Sansa to plot against Jon.
This Father’s Day episode on June 18 2017 will likely be the 2nd or 3rd episode of Season 7. Season 7 will start in June 2017
Season 6 episode 1 ended showing Melisandre as an old lady…
Season 7 episode 1 will end showing Howland Reed in present time….
Episode 2 will probably be Father’s Day June 18th 2017. Littlefinger will tell Sansa who Jon Snow’s parents are. Sansa will find Howland Reed to ask him to confirm who Jon’s parents are… then Sansa and Littlefinger get busy planning their next move.
In Season 6 Sansa met Littlefinger in private behind Jon’s back and Sansa and Littlefinger will do the same thing when they meet Howland Reed in season 7.
Roz’s Ghost,
Yeah a blockade could work. It’s been stressed that Cersei is capable of self destructing so putting her on siege is a solid strategy.
Like Finn said, iron islands is really far but that didn’t stop Asha from sailing a similar route (ii to dreadfort) in a previous episode. I could see ships landing in dorne but some also heading to ii and dany going to dragonstone (i am now all in on dany going to her birthplace before taking her birthright).
For your last prediction, it will be interesting to see how screen time is allocated. One thing I am worriedcabout is Dany spent all this time prepping for westeros I’d like to see her get know this place. She took Astapor and Yunkai and left for Meereen. She then took Meereen. I hope she becomes a Westerosi before taking the throne but there may just not be time or patience from the audience for that. I think one thing Dany needs to realize is that a kingdom’s culture can help you “take” a place more efficiently. Plus, that culture is not going to die completely so studying it (barristan could have helped here:( would be beneficial to her.