The Tower of Joy confirmed! And more new details about a key role involved

Zafra

Castllo de Zafra – Tower of Joy for Game of Thrones Season 6

Courtesy of Los Siete Reinos, today we have a huge update on Game of Thrones season 6 shooting in Spain. We’ve also received some casting breakdown information from our own sources that involves the same site.

Using their local sources, Los Siete Reinos has been able to identify what Game of Thrones locations cities will be standing in for, this year. Game of Thrones production has been busy this week with costume fittings for extras and as the show gets ready to film in the area, some secrets have slipped out.

Most excitingly, their sources have confirmed that, as suspected by many, the Castillo de Zafra in Campillo de Dueñas will be playing the part of the Tower of Joy.

Spoilers below!

The unique castle, built into a bed of stone, will stand as the tower in the south of Westeros where a famous fight took place, the setting for a key flashback in the books. A casting call this June provided an early hint that a flashback was coming; the description of a Legendary Fighter indicated the show might be hunting for Ser Arthur Dayne, who was present at the Tower of Joy. The fight from the books occurs outside the Tower, and so the Castillo de Zafra is an ideal setting for the tower in the books.

The casting breakdown provided to us by a source in June for a Legendary Fighter reads:

A legendary swordsman and a paragon of knighthood. He carries a hugely famous sword on his back.We are looking for the best swordsman in Europe to play this part.
Please note that this character is a fighting legend and we will need a hugely impressive display of swordplay in very spectacular fight scenes.
1 week commencing 25th September
Playing age 30 – 45

This week, we received from our sources a new casting breakdown for a fighter which appears to be very similar to the first one, perhaps an updated version of the first casting call. It’s unclear if it’s for the same character, but it seems likely.  The character is also listed as shooting at the end of September. The age range is narrower though and now the show is looking for an actor, not just a superior swordsman as they were in their first casting search.

The new casting writeup reads:

Legendary Swordfighter

Male, 30-35 years old
This heroic handsome figure is a legendary sword fighter and we want someone who looks heroic and like a fierce and efficient experienced fighter. We need a muscular physique and heroic look. He really does have to have physical impact. The flamboyant aspects of the fighting will be taken over by a stunt fighter but we need someone who looks like they can take care of themselves.
Appears in one episode and has a couple of lines but the fight scene in which he appears is massive and memorable.
Shoot dates are week commencing 28th September in Northern Ireland

As the writeup notes, the fighting aspects of this character are being handled by a stunt fighter. Has the show found a gifted swordsman and decided they need someone with acting ability and the right look after all?

The odds of there being two “legendary” swordfighting heroes is very slim. This does appear to be the casting for a character equivalent to Arthur Dayne. It is reassuring to see a fight scene for him called “massive and memorable.”

Since the new info from Los Siete Reinos tells us that Castillo de Zafra will serve as the exterior location of the Tower of Joy, we have to ask now why this actor for the “Legendary Swordfighter” is not needed in Spain, only Northern Ireland.

It is possible though that Game of Thrones is presenting its own take on the scene, and depicting the fight taking place inside the tower. In this case, the scene would be filmed most likely in the Belfast studios, safe from prying eyes. It’s also possible that the hero encounters his opponent inside the tower, and they exchange a few lines of dialogue and tussle a bit before the fight moves outside, and the stunt fighter takes over.


 

Another interesting piece of information Los Siete Reinos uncovered is that Girona in Spain will be serving as two major show locations for season 6, Oldtown and Braavos.

Girona Old Town

Girona Old Town

Last year, Braavos exteriors were mostly shot in the Croatian town of Kastel Gomilica. Our sources had informed us some time ago that Game of Thrones was not expected to film in Croatia much year, and no extras have been scheduled for the country last we heard. It seems that the show is shifting much of the production, not just new locations, over to Spain.

Many had speculated Girona might be Oldtown, a new location for the show, and they were correct, according to Los Siete Reinos’s sources.

Oldtown is a big city in southern Westeros, home to the Citadel, the seat of the Maesters. Girona’s Old Town streets, Jewish quarter and beautiful architecture offer a wide variety of options for filming scenes related to the Oldtown story.

Head on over to Los Siete Reinos to read the complete story and for more details!

Girona Cathedral

Girona Cathedral and walls

447 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. Does this in the bigger picture also confirm Jons return?

      Can’t wait, ‘they were seven against three’ #fist pump

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    2. I did not really want to get my hopes up for a sequence of the Tower of Joy, but now I might start to get excited, it is certainly one of my favorite scenes from the books. I wonder if Sean Bean will be back.

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    3. Pretty much as expected.

      The lack of any other casting notices so far that might be related to this scene has been noticeable so far. I can’t see how the show could give us what is apparently going to be an extended fight scene at the Tower without any sort of greater narrative payoff.

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    4. Well, without Tower of Joy revealing that Jon is

      the child of a certain someone… what other point does it have? That’s really the only thing that happens, is a certain promise being made.

      So doesn’t that 100% confirm a certain someones return?

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    5. Cannot wait to this unfold on screen and who will be cast as Arthur Dayne. Also wondering if we’ll get Ned in this scene or if it’s been changed….

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    6. I would prefer Sean Bean, but maybe if they cast a Mid-to-late-20’s actor to play younger Ned they now need a swordsman that is a few years younger than the original broader casting notice… One that fits in with the new Ned actor’s age?

      Maybe nothing so specific or meaningful…

      Either way… Great confirmations today!

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    7. GameofHype: Well, without Tower of Joy revealing that Jon is the child of a certain someone… what other point does it have? That’s really the only thing that happens, is a certain promise being made.

      So doesn’t that 100% confirm a certain someones return?

      Dude, just use spoiler coding.

      This is something you all do on other sites where you say “a certain” over and over but there please just cover your spoilers with spoiler coding. 🙂

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    8. Holy shit.

      I’d seen all the discussion of this this morning on the other thread, but as certain as it sounded, was waiting for final confirmation in the form of an article. Well, I got it, and now I’m bouncing off the walls.

      Happy, happy, joy, joy…

      Thanks, Sue!!!

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    9. I think that second casting call could be for Commander Hightower.
      Arthur Dayne wasn’t known for his body physique while the Bull was.

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    10. That Girona news is interesting. I thought it would be a good location for Oldtown and Braavos so the fact that it’s doing double duty is a bit validating, not going to lie. Also, all these local confirmations makes me want to look over the locations that were looked at now that we actually know what locations will be serving as the Tower of Joy and Oldtown.

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    11. This post made my day…it’ll be amazing to see this massively important event finally brought to life! Sounds like we’ll be getting some answers to some long-awaited questions 😉

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    12. Its totally gonna be they were 3 against 1 or something like that for the show. I doubt we will get a 7v3 fight 🙁

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    13. Maybe they can’t film too much fighting outside the tower because the landscape is protected or some such thing, so they film the fight in NI with partial greenscreen and then they film the tower and them riding towards it in Spain and then later put the images together digitally. Could work. And that way we could have the dialog and fighting outside and still have the tower in the background.

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    14. Maybe Bran will have the vision from Eddard’s point of view, so that leaves Sean Bean out of the picture, but we will need the other six heroes, including a young Howland Reed, yes!!

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    15. This is epic news for an epic scene.

      Also thanks for the info on oldtown.

      I think with a wicked figure making a return that there will be some serious payback this season…we are due it!

      Im summarising a lot here…

      Season 1 – Negative – Daddy stark dies
      Season 2 – Positive – No real big deaths, awesome blackwater fight
      Season 3 – Negative – Whats a red wedding?
      Season 4 – Positive – The nights watch battle, wraps up story, Tywin dead – Joffrey dead!
      Season 5 – Negative – Snow dead, Stannis and family dead Boltons winning
      Seaso 6 – Some serious Frey and Bolton payback surely!!

      However this could be the most tragic season yet who knows.

      Keep the secrets and spoilers piling in though WotW

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    16. Leo,

      Interesting thought!
      Bran having the vision from Ned’s POV would make things easier in many ways… Sadly it would also mean no Mr Bean!

      Maybe some Bean voiceover work in the scene… Hmm.

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    17. JP Dayne,

      I don’t think the writers are overly hung up on the book physical appearance. They need a guy who instantly impresses as heroic and powerful to play Dayne. And the emphasis on the fight scene suggests it’s the same as the Dayne one.

      Leo,

      With the possible exception of Reed, those would all just be extras/stunt men.

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    18. So awesome. This means so much…I always thought it was rather a shame that

      Dayne died, necessary as it was.

      I’m excited to see who is cast!

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    19. You know what’s a bit of a shame? They are going to enhance it. I think the Castillo de Zafra is beautiful the way it is, but knowing the show people they will simply use the base and then put some extra tower on top of it so as to make it more ‘impressive’. Most times the CG is really great in GOT, but sometimes I wish they would leave things in the way they are so that they are more recognizable.

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    20. I am extremely interested in how things will build up to the actual ToJ scene. Could be exciting and very sad, a la Aemon in S5.

      A Howland Reed sighting will break my internet!

      &

      “Promise me, Ned.”

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    21. Christine Marie,

      SERIOUSLY! I keep trying that strategy and the shyte ain’t workin’. I am trying to buy my time by treading through the books for a third/fourth time and highlighting clues along the way.

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    22. I want to believe! But there still seems to be a lack of casting info to support this scene. How could a casting call for Lyanna not leak with the others? I can buy Arthur Dayne is the only KG present at the Tower, and that Ned would only be accompanied by 2 or 3 men, but he would need a Howland Reed to be a featured character. So where are the casting calls for Lyanna and Howland? Ahhh!

      I said back in season 1 when people were complaining about Ned’s dream being cut that they were saving the TOJ for when Jon’s parentage was revealed. So I want this to be true.

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    23. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      Reed doesn’t, strictly speaking, need to be featured, if for some reason you didn’t want to spend the money casting him. He just needs to be an extra/stunt-man. He doesn’t require dialogue at that stage. It would make more sense to, though, so the audience would recognize him when he (presumably) reappears later.

      Likewise, the fact that we’ve only seen them casting Dayne so far just as likely means that the other Kingsguard don’t have any dialogue and are just extras.

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    24. Sean C.:
      Tyrion Pimpslap,

      Reed doesn’t, strictly speaking, need to be featured, if for some reason you didn’t want to spend the money casting him.

      It would cost them very little to hire an actor for one scene. Actors don’t cost remotely as much as one CGI shot.

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    25. Wow just walked in from a 12 hour nightmare shift and read this!!!!!!!!! Get Orlando bloom to play Dayne. He is British in his 30s and good with a sword. All the top actors love doing telly these days and GOT is massive I bet he would jump at it. Can u imagine legolas vs boromir fooking awesome!!!!! McShane is howland reed must be!!!

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    26. Matt,

      I don’t think it’s a matter of casting minor characters, they would need at least 6 (or 5 depending on whether Sean Bean comes back) and those 6 would need to have some training in sword fighting AND then they would need 6 stuntmen to do the really hard stuff. On top of that they would have to coordinate a fight with 7 people…remember the Sand Snake debacle of a fight? If you get that many people swinging swords, the danger goes up exponentially so they’d most likely slow it down, which is part of what made the Sand Snake thing suck.

      Also, consider this what is the purpose of having 6 other people there? Will they continue to be in the series? No. So why bother? I think if they include anyone other than Ned it will be Howland Reed, who we may not ever see again in the show. They don’t want or need to introduce any more multi-season characters and they need to keep it simple. I think we’ll end up with a three person fight: Dayne, Ned and Howland.

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    27. GeekFurious,

      Like I said, “for whatever reason”. I don’t think it makes sense to be pinching pennies with a scene of this importance. Unless the show isn’t going to use Reed as a character in the present, I guess.

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    28. AHHHHHHHHFBJEKELFKFKTJRHSHSHAH CAN SOMEONE PLEASE HOLD ME! I need my spot in the bathroom for a good cry!!!! My Arthur is coming! Where the hell is Lady Dayne so she can fangirl with me over the only Dayne we have confirmation so far?!?!

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    29. Crabber’s Son,

      I’m thinking it will be 12 to 2, too many would be pissed if Hightower was excluded, that way it will be more impressive and threatening if the two take down 10 leaving you know who. We will definitely have build-up with multiple scenes. The bad news, this will probably exclude a Robert’s sequel, if GoT has all the high points.

      Pigeon,

      Yea, but HR cheated big time, apparently sorcery,

      BTW: ToJ! ToJ! “Dancing an Irish jig.”

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    30. While this could be Bran seeing the battle… what if it’s treated like Cersei’s flashback at the beginning of season 5? And we are seeing it from the perspective of one of the survivors of the battle… and we know of only one.

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    31. “Now it begins.” “No, now it ends.”

      I long to hear Sean Bean say the latter. There are many ways they can use him via Bran to set up the ToJ. Conceivably, he could play Ned, but age is an obstacle. (Isn’t it always?)

      Anyway, well done, Sue! This is a coup. I’ve noticed in my wanderings around the web that various news aggregators are increasingl citing WotW as a source. No wonder!

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    32. GeekFurious,

      I don’t think it makes much sense to do that, when you’ve already got Bran in the series, we know his storyline is going to have several flashbacks/visions this year, and the presumed reveal is directly relevant to Bran’s story and family. Whereas Howland Reed wouldn’t mean anything to the audience.

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    33. Squeal!!!!

      I think one reason the showrunners have decided to go eight seasons is because they’re gonna have to spend a LOT of time on flashbacks/exposition next season for the Big Reveal, (as well as more info about the White Walkers,) and I for one am panting at the thought!

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    34. Sean C.:
      GeekFurious,

      I don’t think it makes much sense to do that, when you’ve already got Bran in the series, we know his storyline is going to have several flashbacks/visions this year, and the presumed reveal is directly relevant to Bran’s story and family.Whereas Howland Reed wouldn’t mean anything to the audience.

      Well, Howland Reed as a witness and known to have been there is FAR MORE IMPORTANT than Bran as someone who sees it in a vision. So, if you are going to introduce what Howland saw and make it mean something to more than just to Bran and the audience (since his vision can’t be shared with anyone), then it would be a perfect time to introduce us to both. Perhaps Howland Reed eventually tells someone…

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    35. The significance of this scene will also be important to visually show Howland “High Sparrow” Reed’s motivations and especially give unsullied a perfect understanding of his actions.

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    36. tyjon,

      I think it will be Arthur Dayne vs Ned, Howland and maybe like martyn cassel since we had 2 cassels already. We dont need Hightower because i think he would take too much attention from Arthur Dayne. I am usually against flash backs but certain shows like the final season of boardwalk empire have handled them really well. I hope we have 1 flashback per episode. With the flashbacks slowly building one separate complete story. Im excited!

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    37. 454,

      Sue and Los Sieto Reinos have sources involved in the production, bub.. That’s where these scoops come from. So no. Not bullshit.

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    38. Cumsprite,

      Awww Mr Sprite! Never say you need a reminder on WHEN ToJ happened in the books? First book, some Ned chapter I won’t bother to look up See, Martin has already written it. No choo choo for you!
      I feel cheated. This was too easy.

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    39. What if we get Arthur Dayne to slice Howland Reed’s chest or something and cause a huge scar and then after the flashback we go to a scene of high sparrow standing in a mirror looking at his huge chest scar….fade to black que game of thrones theme.

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    40. GeekFurious,

      Bran can share it with others…by telling them about it. And Bran is a character the audience is invested in, and whose reaction would mean something to the viewers.

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    41. Maceless Fan,

      Afraid they’ll ruin it… Or that it gets the “Cersei’s flashback” treatment, i.e. they put it in just because it was in the books but it really never affects anything so it’s utterly pointless.

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    42. Luka Nieto,

      Not to mention that they are casting a 30-35 year old for Arthur Dayne. If I recall, Ned and him are close in age. Bean would just have to pass as a guy in his mid thirties, which I think is possible with makeup/CGI.

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    43. Excellent news all around!

      It will be interesting to see what additional casting news, if any, leaks out around the time that scene at the Tower of Joy is being filmed. I don’t expect there will be much, but one can hope!

      I think it’s fair to speculate that both the conversation before the fight and the fight itself will center around Ned and Arthur Dayne. Gerold Hightower, Oswell Whent, Howland Reed, and the rest of Ned’s companions will likely be played by extras and stuntmen. Furthermore, as the more charismatic figure, Dayne may take over Hightower’s role as the leader of the Tower’s defenders (my guess is the hierarchy won’t be addressed at all).

      If Lyanna is being cast, then all of her scenes for this particular sequence will be interiors, and probably shot on a tightly sealed set in Belfast. Unless a casting call or CV somehow leaks, we may not get confirmation about who will be playing her until the show airs.[/spoilers]

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    44. Cersei’s Wine Goblet,

      In the books. Sean Bean was 50 during the filming of season 1. Jaime was cited as being in his fourties by Tywin in season 4. Ned is older than Jaime by at least 5 years. It’s safe to assume that Ned was in is late 40’s in the show.

      Jon

      is 17 at the start of the series, so the TOJ took place when show Ned was in his 30’s.

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    45. I haven’t been this excited to see something playing out since the RW!

      BTW, are anyone else’s posts getting eaten? Once I hit post it goes to a page that says “your request timed out”

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    46. Tyrion Pimpslap:
      I want to believe! But there still seems to be a lack of casting info to support this scene. How could a casting call for Lyanna not leak with the others? I can buy Arthur Dayne is the only KG present at the Tower, and that Ned would only be accompanied by 2 or 3 men, but he would need a Howland Reed to be a featured character. So where are the casting calls for Lyanna and Howland? Ahhh!

      They might have gone after 2 actors they wanted and got them, hence no need for a casting call?

      Additionally, I would be comfortable betting $100 we’re for sure getting Sean Bean in this scene. They’ll de-age him somehow – or not. I don’t think anyone would have a problem suspending disbelief for 10 mins just to see him again.

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    47. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      Exactly, and I really don’t think they’ll have any trouble using Sean Bean himself. It’d disrupt the suspension of disbelief way more if they used a new actor. There are some simple tricks that can help “de-age” a person (pulling your hair back super tight = the old home made facelift!) and yeah they could use a touch of CGI. But also, Ned Stark, like most warriors, has lived a hard life. He’d be a rough 35 anyway!

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    48. aiad,

      So i guess Cersei being paranoid of Margaery all season and Myrcella dying was all useless,i wonder sometimes if some people watch the show or just read some quick summaries and then pretend they watched it,the people who are constantly bitching about stuff that really don’t have merit seem to be the most guilty of this .

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    49. “Massive and memorable” fight scene seems more like Azor Ahai vs WW in a flashback to me. Could one casting call be for Azor Ahai and the other for Ser Arthur Dayne? Bran could have more than one flashback guys… Also the epic scene that was delayed for a few seasons and now is finally coming? There’s only a few that can easily be moved across the seasons, and those are flashback scenes. Exciting times!!!

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    50. Luka Nieto,

      So far characters have only been aged-up by 2 or 3 years in the TV series. So Ned was like 37-39 in the first season. A 50 year old man can pull that off, but a 20-year-old is a different beast altogether.

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    51. H. Stark should get credit for this, they were the one to break the news on the site in the last articles comment section

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    52. I reckon there’ll be a large skirmish outside the ToJ with several people (red tops) followed by a face off with Ned and Dayne inside. Howland Reed serves no purpose on the show if Jons parentage is indeed revealed by Brans vision (the rest of Westeros don’t need to know this remember). I reckon/hope they’ll use Sean Bean in this scene. With some clever lighting/subtle cgi/makeup or film techniques (a vision could use blurred visuals) they should be able to get away with it. It’d be much easier for the audience to relate to a familiar Ned. And don’t be getting your hopes up for “promise me Ned”… look what happened with “fetch me a block”. Be prepared!

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    53. After an utterly frustrating day at work, this is welcome news. I have been waiting a long time to see the Tower of Joy.

      I don’t care if the number of participants are reduced (Ozzy Whent, Ethan Glover and the rest are great on paper but may not be necessary on screen) as long as the substance of the scene isn’t compromised. However, I’m not so willing to pass on Howland’s importance in this scene. What exactly did he do there?

      I just want to hear,

      “And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. … “No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.”.

      and, of course,

      “Promise me, Ned”

      Jared:

      If Lyanna is being cast, then all of her scenes for this particular sequence will be interiors, and probably shot on a tightly sealed set in Belfast. Unless a casting call or CV somehow leaks, we may not get confirmation about who will be playing her until the show airs.

      Agree. They may try to keep this piece of casting news quiet. Not sure if that is possible any longer with this show.

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    54. Selina,

      She wasn’t that beautiful, was she? I was under the impression she wasn’t as beautiful as Cersei. The way George describes them (all the beauties but esp Cersei and Dany) you’d be hard pressed to find anyone beautiful enough who could also act really well and be affordable. Although Lyanna wouldn’t require much acting for ToJ. But it couldn’t be bad, it would be like watching Quentin Tarantino in Pulp Fuction. Crash! Back to reality.

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    55. ¿Guys, isn’t the title a BIG ASS spoiler by itself?

      There’s people that doesn’t want to know exactly what’s gonna happen next season, and putting TOWER OF JOY CONFIRMED is pretty much a bummer.

      Sorry about the bad english, i hope Sue understands my point.

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    56. Tormund’s Woman,

      OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!
      WE’RE GOING TO SEE A DAYNE!!!
      And Howland effing Reed! And maybe Sean Bean! AND WE’RE GETTING LYANNA!!! AND “Promise me…”!!!
      [thunk]
      Sorry, passed out for a moment…
      TOJ, m-fers!!! T-O-J!!!
      Oh, thank you, Sue! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

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    57. Sean bean has lost some weight recently and looks a lot more youthful now, he could easily pull of a younger ned stark.

      Also…..does this Likley confirm the return of Jon as well? Anyone?

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    58. This is really exciting news if indeed it’s confirmed by reliable sources. I take that WOTW wouldn’t confirm it unless it’s from a reliable source.

      Like I tweeted – There’s no point of including this flashback unless:

      a) Jon Snow is retuning, one way or an”other”.
      b) To introduce us to Howland Reed because:

      1) He’s the High Sparrow.
      2) He’s behind the Great Northern Conspiracy to take Winterfell back from the Bolton’s and instil Rickon as King in the North. Possibly confirming my theory that he’ll be giving Brienne the mission to retrieve Rickon back from Skagos (D&D Fan Fiction or maybe Brienne & Davos cross paths on his way back in the books).

      c) It’s both a & b without points 1 & 2 but because Howland Reed plays a completely unexpected role coming up in both the books & the series.

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    59. I don’t know if I could be any more excited for next season. But I’m also worried that they won’t do it justice… There has been a lot of very specific casting info around for Arthur Dayne, but nothin that indicates Howland Reed, Oswell Whent or Gerold Hightower. Ned vs the Sword of the Morning will still be epic, but I’d much prefer them to film the web comic version of that battle.

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    60. Edith,

      No, that would be incredibly cheesy. That’s the sort of thing shows do when they want to change up their settings for an episode but keep using their main cast.

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    61. Pedrissimo,

      No, it’s not a spoiler. If you haven’t read the books, then you should have no idea what the Tower of Joy is or what its significance is. (And if you’ve read the books and also want to know nothing about what happens about the show anyway- I have to wonder why you’re here. Reporting the news is our main focus.)

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    62. Loooper the Great,

      1. Joffrey might have been rounding.
      2. Assuming that he was 40 in Season 4, and that 1 year passes between seasons (not confirmed, but widely assumed), that means he was 37 in Season 1. Jaime was 32 in the first book, so the series might have aged him up 5 years instead.
      3. Assuming that TV-Ned is 3 years older than Jaime like in the books, he was 40 in Season 1. Since Robert’s Rebellion is repeatedly stated to have occurred 17 years before Season 1, that means he was 23 at the time of the Tower of Joy. 23 and 20 don’t make much of a difference. Bean can’t pass for a 23-year-old neither.

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    63. Sean Bean in S6! One of the greatest actors this show has ever had, I’m 100% sure we will see him again.

      He wants to return to GoT, and I’m sure D&D want that also.

      What GRRM wrote in some book 20 years doesn’t matter. I’m sure, if he knew that Sean Bean is going to play Ned, he would have been 45 years old during tthat scene. LOL.

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    64. There will be no 7-on-3 battle, come on people! It’s 2 (or 3) versus 1. That’s it. And yes, I can hear everyone complaining from May of 2016 all the way back here, but be thankful we have an awesome show with the TOJ scene anyway—and think about what that means!

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    65. Tywin of the Hill,

      Kids have only been aged 2 or 3 years. Joffrey was aged like 5 years. And the adults much more. Jaime was explicitly 40 in season 4, for example. And Ned was definitely older than that.

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    66. OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGGOMGOGOMGOGM

      WOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

      Also, who needs to be there really depends on what Jon’s story is. If it’s important that people know about Jon’s ancestry (that Rhaegar and Lyanna possibly wed, and he’s a legitimate Targaryen, that he might meet Dany), the Howland Reed will be there. That door is still open, given Meera is still alive and supposedly with Bran. If Bran has a vision of TOJ, it could be that he says something to Meera, who remembers her father being there.

      But if Jon’s destiny isn’t tied up in anyone else acknowledging who he is – but just actually BEING what he is, the balance – then Bran’s visions are enough.

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    67. Sue the Fury,

      Yeah, i agree, but i know for sure at least 2 friends of mine that only visit this site, because is known to be “spoiler safe” to check over award’s nominations, HBO news, book’s news, GRRM related stuff, etc.

      And they would be pissed about the “magic of the moment” lost due to this. (lol)

      No problem anyways, I will just warn them about a possible “show-spoiler”. I only posted the issue to know if was a shared opinion.

      Keep the good work Sue and co; we love the site 😀

      Greetings from Argentina.

        Quote  Reply

    68. BEYOND EXCITED!!! 😀

      I would not be surprised if numbers are reduced so the swordfight has bigger impact. This doesn’t necessarily mean Lyanna though- could be sort of a Part 1 and just Ned’s memory of the fight. I hope they avoid the single camera view/wolf dreams type thing via Bran if they do it as a Bran vision and we get to see Ned himself, and that it’s Sean Bean. Fingers crossed for Howland Reed and an epic fight! I hope we get it all!!!!

        Quote  Reply

    69. I’m grinning from ear to ear right now and my non-book-reader friends are just like “uh, okay.”

      Yeah, you won’t be UH-OKAYING NEXT YEAR. HYPE.

        Quote  Reply

    70. The minute I saw this picture … oh hell yeah Tower Of Joy! It looks perfect for it and you know that sort of a romantic vibe to it.

      Important question.Let’s say that Jon is revealed as son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. It’s pretty much 99% chance of happening.

      How can Howland Reed prove that to people in Westeros, because going by Jon’s looks, he is basically 100% Stark. I don’t believe he would have a blond/silver wig and purple eyes. We need some solid proof for that. Howland Reed’s words could convice someone,but a lot of people people will be sceptical. There are some theories about crypts in Winterfell and hidden clues to his parentage (Rhaegar’s harp,some documents about their marriage). Could it be or what’s your take on this?

      I’ve always thought about this rather than the actual theories if Rhaegar or Ned or whatever is his father. Is how you can prove it,but I’m sure George figured it out already, but it’s fun to speculate.

        Quote  Reply

    71. Stark Raven’ Rad,

      Fuck me

      Sean Bean saying “No, now it ends” would literally make my life complete.

      They HAVE to get him back for this. Just a couple of close ups of his face, and CGI him a bit younger, then have a stunty do the sword-play.

        Quote  Reply

    72. This is incredible….

      Tower of Joy…
      Oldtown…
      Walder Frey…
      Jon Snow…

      Screw it. 1 First Class ticket on the Lady Stoneheart Express please! I’m getting on this train!

        Quote  Reply

    73. GoTstan:
      H. Stark should get credit for this, they were the one to break the news on the site in the last articles comment section

      Agreed! Thanks to all that contribute to finding the new and noteworthy scoop! 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    74. This has just reminded me of something I read in Game of Thrones

      “They had found him still holding her body, silent with grief. The little crannogman, Howland Reed,had taken her hand from his.” Does “they” mean that someone else was on that tower, apart from Ned, Reed, Lyanna and the Kingsguard?

        Quote  Reply

    75. Selina,

      Many Doctor Who fans were speculating that Maisie is playing a younger Clara(played by Jenna Coleman) in Season 9. Except for her lack of pale complexion, I think Jenna is perfect to play Lyanna. Short like Arya and Jon – check, Brown eyes like Kit’s – check, Brown hair and round face like Maisie’s – check. Northern accent – check.

        Quote  Reply

    76. Ser Matt the Sullen,

      Sean is one helluva fit man, in better shape than 95% of twenty somethings, he could do most of the fighting himself.

      Gayeld,

      Nope!

      BTW: Could this be a cliffhanger in ep. 10, Ned hears a voice scream out his name, and cut, till season 7.

        Quote  Reply

    77. Sue the Fury,

      Do you have any sense of what’s going on with exterior shots of King’s Landing? Seems very strange to me that Croatia is mostly out, and that Girona is standing in for two other locations entirely when it made the most sense for KL. Or are they just going to shoot exteriors in random places? Very odd. Anyway, just wondering. The Tower of Joy stuff is ridiculously exciting news.

        Quote  Reply

    78. Tywin of the Hill,

      It is speculated that a wet nurse, Wylla, was there to help care for Lyanna and the baby. She was also the wet nurse to Edric Dayne.

      Ser Matt the Sullen:
      Sean Bean saying “No, now it ends” would literally make my life complete.

      They HAVE to get him back for this. Just a couple of close ups of his face, and CGI him a bit younger, then have a stunty do the sword-play.

      Love the emotion in this post. Agree that Sean Bean needs to do this for it to resonate properly with non-readers. He can be refreshed thru the workings of CGI and make-up.

        Quote  Reply

    79. Ashara Dayne: She wasn’t that beautiful, was she? I was under the impression she wasn’t as beautiful as Cersei.

      Cersei’s uncle thought so. It seems that other’s differed: Robert clearly felt differently. One thing that comes through in a few descriptions is that Lyanna clearly had a charisma that transcended her looks: she’s the sort of person who we would describe as having a “spark” or something like that.

      That written….

      Ashara Dayne: Although Lyanna wouldn’t require much acting for ToJ. But it couldn’t be bad, i

      It’s a bit of a catch-22, though, isn’t it? People on their death bed often act very unnatural. So, what might seem to be overly stiff or overly exaggerated might be written off as bad acting, when it’s actually an attempt to be accurate!

      So, what they probably are going to want is Lyanna in an unusual circumstance. Chances are good that a lot of people won’t like the scene: if they play it “real,” then those people who never have seen anyone on a deathbed will think that it was “corny” or poorly acted, and if they tone it down (or up), then those people who have been on someone’s deathbed will pan it for being unreal!

      Hodor’s Bastard: Maybe we’ll also get a bit of insight on what happened to Dawn.…

      Don’t the books tell us that?

        Quote  Reply

    80. aabe: Many Doctor Who fans were speculating that Maisie is playing a younger Clara(played by Jenna Coleman) in Season 9. Except for her lack of pale complexion, I think Jenna is perfect to play Lyanna.

      I had not read that speculation! Of course, Doctor Who fans see the Valyard and the Rani around every corner, so I take most of what I read from them with very large grains of salt.

      As for Jenna not being “pale” enough, that would be easy enough to remedy. Moreover, the scene probably will have a bit of CGI altering to make it obviously “dreamy”: that’s pretty common with flashbacks.

      One issue is whether the bring back Bean. If they do, then they are better off using a woman in her later 30’s and using the same “de-aging” techniques so as to make it a level playing field. Of course, Lyanna should look haggard in this situation: women who have just given birth look a wreck these days, and it would have been far, far more arduous in those sorts of circumstances. Add to that the fact that Lyanna is suffering major hemorrhaging, and she should not look like a vivacious late teens sports goddess.

        Quote  Reply

    81. Selina,

      It was definitely said in the books, I don’t remember where, that Arya was a ringer for young Lyanna, who also had a similar tomboyish personality going by what the Reeds told Bran, beating off Howland Reed’s three attackers with a tourney sword (and she was probably the Knight of the Laughing Tree). Lyanna doesn’t need to be stunning, imo, just unique. It’s possible Rhaegar and Robert were more attracted to her feisty, defiant spirit and big heart than by her meeting real-world contemporary beauty standards.

        Quote  Reply

    82. Pigeon,

      I don’t want to be rude but you guys know that Los Siete Reinos is not some obscure website, right? They’re a well-established GoT website – so good that we actually have them in our link station at the bottom of WotW and have had them there for months.
      We didn’t learn about their post today from anything anyone here posted- we follow them on Twitter, talk to their writers via email, and regularly post their Spain news. They are the premiere Spanish-language source of GoT news and have good sources. So yes, we do check in with them.

        Quote  Reply

    83. Tyrion Pimpslap:
      I want to believe! But there still seems to be a lack of casting info to support this scene. How could a casting call for Lyanna not leak with the others? I can buy Arthur Dayne is the only KG present at the Tower, and that Ned would only be accompanied by 2 or 3 men, but he would need a Howland Reed to be a featured character. So where are the casting calls for Lyanna and Howland? Ahhh!

      Perhaps because they already asked someone and didnt need to put out a casting call?
      As i said yesterday Liana Liberato would be perfect to play Lyanna Stark since she has to be gorgeous and she has the looks down just perfectly.

      She even said she had a cool new project coming up in late august she couldnt talk about a while back… At the moment she is actually on holiday in croatia swimming right where they shot the show. Coincedence?

        Quote  Reply

    84. Tommy,

      Liana Liberato looks like Amanda Bynes and about 15 years old. I sincerely doubt she would be cast. Cute but not gorgeous. Besides, what are the chances she could pull off a Northern accent?

        Quote  Reply

    85. It’s so damn silly to come to this site and complain about Sue spoiling, and not just because of how attractive her Twitter pic is. It’s maddening. Don’t come.

        Quote  Reply

    86. Sue the Fury:
      Pigeon,

      We didn’t learn about their post today from anything anyone here posted

      But I did. I don’t search through a billion news sites a day for tidbits of info – certainly not in other languages. Which is why I’m grateful for anyone here who takes the time to do so!

        Quote  Reply

    87. Ok, I’m going all tinfoil hat here but, what if instead of having Bran’s vision of the ToJ, what we get is

      Jon’s vision of the ToJ… Sometime during his death and his resuscitation, he has that vision (either assisted by Bran or just by himself while in limbo). That way he finds out the truth about his parentage (I’m sure he’s quite aware of the story between Lyanna and Rhaegar). Thus, when he’s reborn, he can reclaim he’s real identity.

      I know, I know, it’s quite outlandish and will probably be bad TV… I’ll see myself out…

        Quote  Reply

    88. I seriously hope they try to stay true to the books,and keep the dialogue between the kingsguard and Ned the same.In the past, the absence of “only cat” and “fetch me a block” didn’t bother me.But leaving this conversation out would take away from the whole encounter!

        Quote  Reply

    89. If this is going to show the complete scene with Lyanna included, I hope they cast Katie Mcgrath! She would be a stunning Lyanna Stark.

        Quote  Reply

    90. Paul,

      We already had a version of that: “Promise me, Theon” (S5E7)… so, we might not get Lyanna’s words after all…

        Quote  Reply

    91. In my opinion this also explains the push to get TWOW out pre-season 6, and I have a feeling he will get it out.

      Also is it possible that they had someone in mind for Lyanna thus the lack of a casting call? No mention of Bean being back either, right?

        Quote  Reply

    92. Selina,

      From “A Game of Thrones” [Ned to Arya]: “Lyanna might have carried a sword, if my lord father had allowed it. You remind me of her sometimes. You even look like her.” As so many of her recent non-GOT photos have revealed, if Maisie’s Arya were shown with the more feminine dress and hairstyle which Lyanna would have been required to wear, one would have no problem attributing the same “wild beauty” to her. Ned saw this in the books; so did Nina Gold/D&D for the show.

        Quote  Reply

    93. Nice to see ToJ, something from the existing books, confirmed. With the casting call for a legendary fighter, who looks like a fighter, and is needed in Ireland, I think the big fight in the show will take place inside, not outside the ToJ. Perhaps the showrunners feel more comfortable staging a fight in their studios, rather than at some historic site, where they might be more limited.
      I am pretty sure there will be a Lyanna too – Jenna Coleman would do very well! I wonder when exactly this sequence will be placed in Season 6 – I think, early.

        Quote  Reply

    94. Tommy,

      I actually met Liana a while back when I was working as an extra on one of her movies. She is a very nice girl and a fantastic actress, but IMO it would be very strange to cast her as Lyanna. She’s American, for one, and they very rarely cast Americans. And she’s 19 years old (and looks even younger). Especially if Sean Bean did come back, they would look just ludicrous together and it would only serve to highlight his age.

      Count me among those who would love to see Katie McGrath on GoT. She and Natalie Dormer are friends, too.

        Quote  Reply

    95. How about Olga Kurylenko? She’s drop-dead gorgeous, has a very different look to her, and D&D seem to like to cast internationally.

      EDIT: No clue if she can act or not, but I’m guessing all she’ll have to do is stand there and be part of a dreamy flashback.

        Quote  Reply

    96. Whoever they cast as Lyanna someone’s going to have a problem with it. Just like they always do when someone plays Helen of Troy or Cleopatra. That said, I hope they don’t go the “Rome” route and try for an offbeat choice. While I always appreciate thinking out of the box, the actress in Rome who played Cleopatra was just all wrong and kind of ruined all the Egypt stuff for me.

        Quote  Reply

    97. Kudos to jentario (wherever you are) for your comment last May that Girona could definitely be used for both Oldtown and Braavos. Now I’m wondering about your speculation that Season 6’s big battle scene will be between Dany and Euron. Hmmm.

        Quote  Reply

    98. Wimsey: Don’t the books tell us that?

      I guess I meant it rather rhetorically given that I was directing my comment at the great Ashara Dayne! 🙂 It is probably located at Starfall since Ned supposedly delivered it there after the ToJ events. I only brought it up because there may be a side story associated with that sword in the context of the entire tale….and its obvious value in the coming battle against the WWs.

        Quote  Reply

    99. Selina,

      If we go by Sean Bean’s age, Ned in the show around that time was in his mid/late 30s, so Lyanna should be in her late 20s/early 30s.
      If they have Sean Bean come back for that episode, they can’t have a girl, who’d look like a daughter to him IMO

        Quote  Reply

    100. I’m of the siesta: We already had a version of that: “Promise me, Theon” (S5E7)… so, we might not get Lyanna’s words after all…

      I remember commenting quite loudly about that point after that episode aired. What a waste of those treasured words.

        Quote  Reply

    101. You guys who keep saying that the High Sparrow is Howland Reed…You’re trolling, right? At least I hope so. That’s one of the tinfoiliest of the tinfoil theories that I’ve ever heard, and I’ve heard a lot of ’em.

      I mean, if we’re going to go that route, here’s a new one: Lord Manderly stops in at the Inn at the Crossroads en route to the Riverlands, is so impressed by Hot Pie’s gravy that he hires him on the spot as his personal baker. The Frey Pies by Hot Pie theory. You heard it here first.

        Quote  Reply

    102. And now it begins…no…now it ends…

      Mother of God, I have no words for how hard I am going to fanboi this scene.

        Quote  Reply

    103. Tywin of the Hill:
      Loooper the Great,

      3. Assuming that TV-Ned is 3 years older than Jaime like in the books, he was 40 in Season 1. Since Robert’s Rebellion is repeatedly stated to have occurred 17 years before Season 1, that means he was 23 at the time of the Tower of Joy. 23 and 20 don’t make much of a difference. Bean can’t pass for a 23-year-old neither.

      Screw the books! Why would you assume TV-Ned is 3 years older than Jaime just because it’s like this in the books?

      His age is never mentioned, so we can simply assume he was as old as he looked like. About 50 – so he only needs to pass for being in his early thirties.

        Quote  Reply

    104. Just felt the sudden need to post this ……..“I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them.

      “We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered.

      “Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell.

      “When King’s Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.”

      “Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.”

      “I came down on Storm’s End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.”

      “Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne.

      “Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.”

      “Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell.

      “But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.”

      “Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm.

      “We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold.

      Ned’s wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three.

      “And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.

      “No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.”

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    105. Maria:
      How about Olga Kurylenko? She’s drop-dead gorgeous, has a very different look to her, and D&D seem to like to cast internationally.

      EDIT: No clue if she can act or not, but I’m guessing all she’ll have to do is stand there and be part of a dreamy flashback.

      She’s beautiful but in a super model way. I have a feeling D&D are looking for someone with a more grounded beauty, someone with a bit of depth and mystery and not just general hotness.

        Quote  Reply

    106. Damn, I´m SO happy.
      ToJ confirmed, geekworld is happy, S6 is now officially saved.
      We may even get our Elio & Linda youtube reviews again.
      Fingers crossed !

      S9 Hypetrain !!!!!!

        Quote  Reply

    107. GeekFurious: Well, Howland Reed as a witness and known to have been there is FAR MORE IMPORTANT than Bran as someone who sees it in a vision. So, if you are going to introduce what Howland saw and make it mean something to more than just to Bran and the audience (since his vision can’t be shared with anyone), then it would be a perfect time to introduce us to both. Perhaps Howland Reed eventually tells someone…

      They are going to need someone from “current” time frame to know the linage of Jon Snow? Since all that knew are dead. Just telling the viewers won’t affect the story at all. If the citizens of Westros are going to know WHO Jon Snow is there has to be a contemporary witness. The big question is WHO is that and how would they convince people that they are authentic.

        Quote  Reply

    108. Stan,

      Jon Snow is a bastard with no gold, army and isn’t even recognized as a Stark by the northern lords. I don’t think everyone is just going to bend the knee to Jon of his parents are revealed. Everyone knows Tommen is a bastard but they can’t do anything about it because the Lannisters are rich and have a huge army.

        Quote  Reply

    109. Let’s remember that Howland Reed confirming Jons parentage is NOT canon. Simply a fan theory. So I don’t understand why everyone expects that this will be how R+L=J is confirmed. Secondly, the possibility that all of Westeros will find out about this (for Jon to sit the Iron Throne etc.) is also not canon, more fandom supposition (even wishful thinking). GRRM has said that Jon will learn the truth (in the books, not even on the show), and has never hinted it’d be from HR, so let’s stick to what we know so far (not what we assume will happen).

        Quote  Reply

    110. It will be most likely 3(2)v1. And Dayne will say Hightowers lines.

      In books you can easly say 7 men fought 3. But to actoully make that fight in movie/TV is a nightmere. Even if they bring stuntmen, it will just be a pointless complication.
      After all you can say that Dayne is inportant to Jaime aswell, while Hightower and Whent don’t really have a purpose.

      as long as Dayne says: ”our knees do not bend easly” i’m going to be more then happy, even if it is a 1v1 duel

        Quote  Reply

    111. I hope that the interior is used for filming fight scenes especially
      Seeing what can happen with restrictions and limitations for filming in the Alcazar of Seville – a la the sand snakes vs bronn vs jaime fight. If i remember correctly they couldnt place cameras where they wanted and space/action shots were limited. This could be avoided with ToJ by filming some studio based shots

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    112. Would they not need a Lyanna who can do a northern English accent? (To speak like Benjen and Ned). There are loads of young or youngish actresses who could could LOOK the part – speak the part less so. As they’ve cast a few ex-Hollyoaks actors in the past (Doreah for example) I wonder if there is anybody from that soap that might fit the bill. If all she has to do is lie in bed and die I guess the accent might be less of an issue.

      The pictures shown in the feature certainly look like Girona can pass off the “Oldtown” look. I’ve become accustomed to the outdoor shots of Dubrovnik doubling for King’s Landing so might miss it – though maybe the showrunners are trying to keep the number of places they shoot down for budgetary reasons (albeit that GoT is thus far a successful show).

        Quote  Reply

    113. Selina,

      SAVAGE

      As a digression, I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: Daddy Ned CAN be played by Sean Bean. He doesn’t necessarily need to look younger, but he can in fact look battle-worn through the use of scabs, darkened eyes, etc. Seven hells, Eddard’s gonna be TIRED, and let’s be honest – everyone looks old and worn when they’re tired.

        Quote  Reply

    114. McMannis,

      True. It’s not like he arrived there all dressed up. The man was fighting a war for at least a year. That would make anyone look 10 years older 🙂

      And for some people who confuse the show’s timeline with the book’s.
      Ned is NOT in his 20s. more like early 30s.

      P.S. And for god’s sake guys!! who in his right mind doesn’t want to see mother****ing Sean Bean!!!

        Quote  Reply

    115. filsns,

      Also the epic scene that was delayed for a few seasons and now is finally coming?

      They never said anything about an epic scene that was delayed. They talked about (1) an epic scene that was to come and (2) a scene that was delayed (which didn’t sound like it was particularly epic).
      In any case, I doubt this is the scene. I don’t think the Tower of Joy would have fit anywhere in the last seasons.

        Quote  Reply

    116. I really don’t care how old Bean is. 56 according to his wiki. I want him in this scene. Put a bit of make up on him. I won’t mind at all

        Quote  Reply

    117. FTW….WTF,

      “Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.
      “Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell.
      “But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.”
      “Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm.
      We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold.

      In hindsight (well for a while now, but not when I first read it) it is so very obvious. (And I know, most of you have read some version of this before, so skip ahead if you have.)

      Maybe Rhaegar believed his father to be already lost (he was mad and courting disaster as it was) and he did not value his own life so much since he did not believe he was the Prince That Was Promised, but with Aerys and Rhaegar dead, the kingsguard would have had an obligation to go to Dragonstone and protect Viserys. He WAS king the moment Aerys and baby Aegon died … unless Rhaegar by then had another heir, i.e. a living trueborn son or daughter.
      These kingsguard are so fixed on doing their duty, they won’t step down even though it is absolutely clear that they cannot win in the long run. But wouldn’t their duty have been to protect Viserys – unless he wasn’t the trueborn Targaryen heir to the throne?

      My question is, though: Why were they not with Aerys in the first place. I get that Rheagar needed someone to protect the tower, but wouldn’t it have still been the kingsguard’s duty to stay in KL? They are, after all, KINGSguard, not ROYALFAMILYguard or FUTUREKINGsguard. And it was war, so I don’t think it makes sense to only leave one kingsguard with the king.

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    118. I’m of the siesta,

      Yes, I’ll join your tinfoil club here as an honorary member and say that this is totally feasible. I think something happens with a

      warg when he dies – his soul is sort of freed and floating and then maybe finding a new body as Varamyr’s does. So who is to say that Jon is not then particularly susceptible to visions given to him by either being a Targ (like Daenys the seer) or with some help of Bran/the weirwood network/the blood of the First Men. Bran’s visions were freed by a near-death experience, and while Jon is not a greenseer he is certainly someone who has special powers.

        Quote  Reply

    119. AWESOME! Good to see both Oldtown and the ToJ confirmed. It means there are quite a few missing castings (Maesters, Lyanna, adult Ned, Kingsguard and Northmen for the ToJ).

      And with Walder Frey and the potential Euron Deadwood casting and Sam-family scenes… This season is looking to be awesome.

        Quote  Reply

    120. If they do flashbacks with young Ned and also The Tower of Joy, don’t we need a flashback at Harrenhal too? A glimpse at the Tourney where Lyanna met Rhaegar. And the place were they ran away or whatever happened.

        Quote  Reply

    121. @Chilli

      not really. It isn’t significant when or how they met, just that they did. And that can be done in dialog. Like, Ned tells it to whoever accompanies him to the ToJ, or Bloodraven tells it to Bran or so. In fact, Littlefinger already told it to Sansa. What’s important is that we know that
      – Rhaegar was interested in Lyanna (we know that from LF)
      – he “kidnapped” her (again LF’s story to Sansa)
      – he took her to the Tower of Joy (can be done in dialog, in fact it can even be revealed in the flashback scene)
      – Ned has gone there to free her (that’s one the points of the flashback scene and will be revealed there, probably in dialog between Ned and Dayne)

        Quote  Reply

    122. I don’t think Lyanna can be older than 20 it wouldn’t seem realistic. Bean might have been 50 in season 1 but he passed for mid-40s. Whatever, we need to hear Bean’s voice say those words and for him to act that scene.

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    123. Could that gag that they said was delayed be tower of joy?.. The gags that the guy was talking about could be making Sean bean young like they did in the movie tron

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    124. In all seriousness, I doubt they’d cast some rando to play younger adult Ned. I think they’ll find a way to make it work with Sean Bean. When you have a good reason to bring an actor of his stature back, and he’s said multiple times in interviews that he’d love to do it, why wouldn’t you?

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    125. If Bran is seeing the ToJ scene via his greensight and if you buy into the idea that both Jojen and Meera know the backstory from their father, then Meera would be able to fill Bran in on anything left unexplained by the scene.

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    126. I’m of the siesta,

      Yes! My co-worker and I were just chatting (she’s my GoT go-to buddy at work and I brought her the exciting news, she was flipping about Tower of Joy!) and thought there could be a link with Jon and Melisandre as well. The only thing is, how would Jon be privy to that knowledge? It would break some warging/weirwood rules to do it that way but that’s not outlandish. Tinfoil away!

      As for Lyanna casting, I personally would like to see someone who looks and speaks consistent with Ned, Benjen, and Jon, so all long faces and northern with dark hair. We know Arya resembles Lyanna, but Maisie herself has a round face and doesn’t really look like the other three. She’s going to be in rough shape as she is dying so I think specifics of age or beauty are less important.

      As for the reveal, I would imagine D&D thought about that when they killed off Jojen. As much as I love Thomas Brodie-Sangster (check him out in Wolf Hall alongside Qyburn if you haven’t seen it), I doubt he will be the method, despite what he said previously. I would love to get Howland Reed in there!

      As for Harrenhal, I think D&D laid the groundwork already last season with the big scene in the Winterfell crypts between Petyr and Sansa (loved this scene!). So the Harrenhal backstory has been laid for the show only viewers.

      And.. I’m STILL so excited!!!! 😀

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    127. Though if they do have to cast a younger Ned rando, there is this guy in the show Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell who sounds almost exactly like Sean Bean.

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    128. Fingers crossed Sean Bean will be back! I miss seeing him on the show.

      As for Lyanna and Howland Reed, I’m not sure they will even appear/be featured. It’s possible all that’s shown is the approach to the ToJ and the pivotal fight between Ned and Dayne. Ned goes into a room, then emerges from the room/tower with a baby. Ned looks devastated and haunted. That’s it. Audiences are left to connect the dots.

      I also wouldn’t count on the exact book dialogue making the show either. D & D are ruthlessly efficient with this sort of thing. They might alter the wording/phrasing or cut lines outright to make the flashback more mysterious, especially if it occurs early in the season, or to preserve future plot developments.

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    129. Not only will it be great to see Arthur Dayne and Dawn

      But indirectly this is hopefully confirmation of Sean Bean cameo return (don’t think they can have a kid, a youngish man and then Sean Bean, too confusing for audiences, will have to try and make Sean Bean look younger through makeup and SFX), Howland Reed

      But also Whent and the Bull though they may choose to focus predominantly on Dayne

      I reckon we’ll see young Ned as confirmed, alongside older brother Brandon and sister Lyanna, so it would be good to see the dynamic given a visual cue so TV audiences are more invested

      Wonder if we’ll have Ned going to Starfall afterwards, with an Ashara Dayne (“sister” casting call?) appearance

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    130. Jaime’s girl:
      I’m of the siesta,

      As for Lyanna casting, I personally would like to see someone who looks and speaks consistent with Ned, Benjen, and Jon, so all long faces and northern with dark hair.

      We don’t need any conversation with Lyanna and Jon. Most important is Ned and personally I would like to see Rhaegar and Lyanna scene. Maybe you can add Lyanna/Ned/Robert flashback while we’re at it. To demonstrate her true feelings and thatit wasn’t a rape. We still have two versions of Rhaegar. Good guys vs bad guy. It will be a very difficult task to cast Rhaegar, because Jaime (very handsome) can’t stand a chance against him. He was something else and even Cersei acknowledge that fact.

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    131. Flora Linden,

      I agree! It could be very much pared down for the show, and focusing on Ned and Dayne only.

      Geralt of Rivia,

      I would love to see Rhaegar as well, but I’m not sure we’ll get it. I agree that would be a tough casting to find someone more handsome than Nikolaj Coster-Waldau 😉

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    132. FTW….WTF:
      Ravyn,

      Thats actually one of the reasons that I like Jenna Coleman for the role, she is pretty but not a bombshell

      You’re watching a different Jenna Coleman than I am. She’s Missandei-level hot.

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    133. Ravyn:
      Whoever they cast as Lyanna someone’s going to have a problem with it. Just like they always do when someone plays Helen of Troy or Cleopatra. That said, I hope they don’t go the “Rome” route and try for an offbeat choice. While I always appreciate thinking out of the box, the actress in Rome who played Cleopatra was just all wrong and kind of ruined all the Egypt stuff for me.

      I’m pretty sure that in “Plutarch’s Lives” Cleopatra is mentioned as NOT being beautiful beyond compare in real life. That’s not to say she was ugly in real life of course. I don’t think Lindsey Marshal is a bad actress but somehow the way she played Cleo reminded me of the late Amanda Barrie playing the same lady in “Carry on Cleo” (a circa 1964 British comedy film – one of the “Carry On” series) – i.e. played for laughs.

      Referring to Geralt’s post above I’ve been hoping for at least a “Promise me Ned”.

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    134. Dame of Mercia,

      Yeah i don’t expect much dialogue, to be honest, besides Ned/Dayne.

      The rest can be the classic flashback shots: shaky camera, blur, quick shots. And then, if we are lucky, ”promise me, Ned”.

      EDIT: It depends tough what kind of flashback they’ll use. Bran tree vision(then I suspect it will be like i wrote above) or Cersei style flashback (quite long and clear)

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    135. Will people stop saying the Sean Bean can play Ned Stark at age 20, or 23 or 25 for that matter? I wish it could happen, I LOVE Sean Ben, and Ned Strak but for me, excessive make up and/or cgi to make actors look younger or older never works out right. It would just look fake and silly and would ruin that whole scene.

      Also (and oh yes, it’s going to a feminist complaint) I just cannot imagine anyone in their right mind saying that a 56 old actress could play a 20-25 woman… Someone suggested Liv Tyler for Lyanna and eveyone was like “ewwwww have you seen her? she looks horrible” but Sean Bean palying Ned at his 20’s? Of course, what could be more normal!!!

      Anyways I am not suggesting applying the same ageist/sexist standards to men as we do to women, but lets be realistic. Noone in his 50s could realistically pass for for 20-25. Noone. And no ammount of lighting and makeup and cgi would change that.

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    136. Queensmoot,

      Ned is easly in his late 40s, in season 1 (book timeline has been altered quite a lot). Sean Bean can easly play some one whose around 30-35.(in my opinion of course)

      And honestly, you know what, i’ll gladly trade immersion for Sean Bean.

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    137. Edith:
      Selina,

      In ADwD, Bran sees Lyanna playing with Benjen Stark through the weirwood. At first, he thinks it is Arya. Hence, Arya looks similar to Lyanna

      Arya was eight/nine when Bran last saw her, so Arya and Lyanna looked similar as little girls. Dosen’t mean they will look alike as women. Puberty is a bitch.

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    138. Shane snow:
      Could that gag that they said was delayed be tower of joy?.. The gags that the guy was talking about could be making Sean bean young like they did in the movie tron

      I have no idea if this is really the “gag” they were talking about (probably not), but I love the idea so much I’m just going to choose to believe it for a while. 😉

      ‘Oh my God, how the hell are we going to do that? But this is going to be incredible!’

      Yeah, that almost does fit…! (And if not, it’s gotta be Deepwood Motte, finally)

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    139. Queensmoot,

      Agree so much with you! 😀 Sean Bean playing Ned in the ToJ scene would really be jarring for me. (Also agree very much with you about the oohs and ahhs for Sean Bean as young Ned but the ewwws for Liv Tyler as Lyanna!)
      Start the scene with Bran’s vision of Sean Bean-as-Ned in the Winterfell vaults in front of Lyanna’s statue and then segue over to a younger actor and a young actress for the ToJ scene. Perfect for the general audience to comprehend what’s going on.

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    140. Re flashback: All we need is a single dialogue about Rhaegar and Lyanna and its aftermath. This shouldn’t happen up North, as Petyr already told Sansa a part of the story. I think it’ll take place in Essos, via Tyrion telling Dany the history of her family. All Dany knows right now is that Aerys was mad, and that Rhaegar was a good prince who busked in King’s Landing. She hasn’t been told much about Rhaegar running off with Lyanna, and what Aerys did in response to angry Starks. Tyrion can easily tell her that story, and the audience will pay attention, as it’s Tyrion and Dany. Dany needs such a dialogue, as she needs to know that the Starks and others had a reason for rebelling.

      After that, the show can move to the central flashback, involving Sean Bean (cgi can do wonders) and ToJ. I’m not even sure if Lyanna has to do anything more than say “promise me, Ned,” and die memorably.

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    141. Kay,

      I would love to see Liv Tyler as Lyanna and I would love to see Ned back.
      Given the alternate timeline, the characters could both be in their thirties and I think Sean Bean, with proper make up, could pass for someone in his thirties who has just been through a war (while Liv is in her thirties so that’s a no brainer she would definitely look the part).
      Having a 30-year old noblewoman unwedded would be a bit weird but: she is promised to Robert (so almost wedded) and Brienne who has a rather similar spirit/nature is also noble, unwedded and in her thirties.

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    142. Jaime’s girl,

      I think Meera will tell Bran about the tourney at Harrenhal this season, like in book 3. It will help viewers understand the other flashbacks, and it would be a big scene for the actress (which has very little to do, given that most of Bran’s stuff is visions and they’re sitting in a cave).

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    143. “…We need a muscular physique and heroic look. He really does have to have physical impact. …”

      Er…. Ser Gerold HIGH-TOWER?

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    144. TOJ won’t be as big and important as some speculate.If you can’t have Brienne kill Sir Arthur Dayne what’s the point?

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    145. I wrote quite a long post that seems to have disappeared into cyberspace – unless it’s gone for moderation. I said that I for one had said nothing demeaning about Liv Tyler. I won’t go into too much detail about my other post in case it re-emerges but I mentioned that sometimes a gifted actor can get away with pulling off a casting younger than their calendar age. I did say I would like actors in the right age bracket though.

      Some 30 year old women look very good for their age these days though. A reasonable diet and going to the gym etc etc pays off I guess.

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    146. dizzy,
      imo yes. Tyrion, the Unsullied, Missandei, Grey Worm, are all in Meereen. Dany’s made a commitment to these people, has already accepted Tyrion as an adviser, so I think that it’s extremely unlikely she’ll cut and leave with the Dothraki. I expect them to meet sometime this season.

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    147. Queensmoot,

      Umm it’s not about gender, it’s about the fact Sean Bean is Ned Stark. Seems like too important of a part to recast. If you want the scene to have impact with casual viewers you want them to go “Whoa, it’s Ned Stark!” not “who’s that guy?”

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    148. I’m with Queensmoot. This idea that Sean Bean can play 20 years younger is…no. Just no. Sean looks a solid 50, not 30. Not 35. If Sean Bean can play 35 then Diana Rigg can play Cersei. Sure, they could de-age him with special effects or a ton of makeup, but I think that would take away from the scene because those effects rarely look natural.

      I love Sean Bean, but I do not want this show twisting itself in knots and creating a fakey looking CGI scene just to bring him back. There are plenty of other actors out there who can do it, just as well and with much less effort.

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    149. HotPinkLipstick,

      I worry the scene would also lose impact with another actor from needing to have someone say “hi, Ned Stark, you are Ned Stark of Winterfell” so casual viewers know who he is, but we’ll see.

      And what does gender have to do with anything here Queensmoot? That doesn’t have to be injected into every discussion when it isn’t relevant.

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    150. A Man Grown, you mean like with the Cersei flashback scene, when they had to introduce the little girl as Cersei?

      Tower of Joy can be just as easy, especially if they are doing it as a Bran weirwood vision, even a couple flashcuts of Sean Bean-Ned with new actor Young Ned would do it.

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    151. Maria,

      That is IF Dany decides to return to Mereen permanently. I have a feeling the mad side of Dany is about to show based on her last chapter (maybe the one before) in ADWD. I won’t spoil anything, but it has to do with

      olive trees and the fact that dragons don’t plant trees

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    152. HotPinkLipstick:
      A Man Grown, you mean like with the Cersei flashback scene, when they had to introduce the little girl as Cersei?

      Tower of Joy can be just as easy, especially if they are doing it as a Bran weirwood vision, even a couple flashcuts of Sean Bean-Ned with new actor Young Ned would do it.

      The end of that scene was able to easily transition to present day Cersei since she’s still alive. Can’t do that with Ned.

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    153. Mihnea:
      Dame of Mercia,

      Yeah i don’t expect much dialogue, to be honest,besides Ned/Dayne.

      The rest can be the classic flashback shots: shaky camera, blur, quick shots. And then, if we are lucky, ”promise me, Ned”.

      EDIT: It depends tough what kind of flashback they’ll use. Bran tree vision(then I suspect it will be like i wrote above) or Cersei style flashback (quite long and clear)

      I am predicting now that they will change the long-awaited ‘Promise me, Ned’ line in some minor way, and people will be furious (see also ‘Only Cat’ and ‘Edd, fetch me a block’).

      Of course, this is all speculation — Lyanna has not even been cast as far as we know, and even the favourite theory about the events in the Tower of Joy (trying not to spoil!) is not 100% confirmed in either book or show. So I’m not assuming anything, although I would love to see Lyanna portrayed on the show (and it does seem likely that we will see her).

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    154. Very exciting news, indeed. In my opinion, this has to be a part of the JS story. I just don’t see any other reason for including it at this late stage in the show. Being that many have been wanting just this sort of news, yes…it is very exciting.

      I honestly don’t care who plays the parts. Saying three words “promise me, Ned” could be taught by a voice coach in about five minutes…not necessary for the actress to already have that accent. Lyanna will not look beautiful covered in blood having just given birth, dying. Regards to Sean Bean or not to Sean Bean. I do think they have previous footage of him that could be cut and combined with current footage to make it very plausible.

      Wouldn’t this scene/flashback be what…five to nine minutes long at the most? It will go fast is the point. Most viewers not being book readers, not knowing any of this, explanation will more likely come from Bran/Meera or Tyrion/Dany after the fact. Or even during the course of relating what happened as a voiceover in a flashback scene.

      Either way, I am really happy to see what they will do and I am sure that I will love it, my expectations are just that it IS going to happen, not how it will happen. Guess I am in that club of one again. 😉

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    155. jentario:
      Jaime’s girl,

      I think Meera will tell Bran about the tourney at Harrenhal this season, like in book 3. It will help viewers understand the other flashbacks, and it would be a big scene for the actress (which has very little to do, given that most of Bran’s stuff is visions and they’re sitting in a cave).

      That would be awesome and a good way to get Ellie Kendrick involved!

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    156. HotPinkLipstick:
      I’m with Queensmoot. This idea that Sean Bean can play 20 years younger is…no. Just no. Sean looks a solid 50, not 30. Not 35. If Sean Bean can play 35 then Diana Rigg can play Cersei. Sure, they could de-age him with special effects or a ton of makeup, but I think that would take away from the scene because those effects rarely look natural.

      I love Sean Bean, but I do not want this show twisting itself in knots and creating a fakey looking CGI scene just to bring him back. There are plenty of other actors out there who can do it, just as well and with much less effort.

      Agree. I think if you step back from the fandom, and look at it as the other 95% of the world audience, bringing back Sean Bean would be distracting, for all the reasons you listed. And I’ll add another one: HBO spends a lot of money per episode, but it’s not limitless. Cost of CGI alone would likely deter them from doing that, especially with all the other scenes they will have to prioritize big money on.

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    157. Dame of Mercia: I’m pretty sure that in “Plutarch’s Lives” Cleopatra is mentioned as NOT being beautiful beyond compare in real life.

      And nobody in Rome spoke in an English accent. “Rome” was hardly a documentary. They dropped the ball on the narrative aspect of Cleopatra by trying to be offbeat.

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    158. Ashara D,

      YESSSS! *highfive* I hope to hear soon who’ll play him. And Lady Dayne you may make an appearance yet 🙂 Missed you!

      A Man Grown,

      I was wondering when someone will point that out. Because I haven’t seen anyone suggesting flashback Ned Stark to be played by any other 50 yr old BUT Sean Bean. It seems clear to me that this is about this specific male actor, because we identified him with the beloved character who’s Ned Stark.
      I’d react exactly the same if anyone had suggested for a flashback to a reasonable young 30 yr old Cat (which she would be because Ned & Cat were the same age during ToJ) to be played by someone other than Michelle Fairley! It’s about THAT specific female actor.

      PS. I think I’ve almost forgiven you for the scouring of the Shire. Almost. You’ve probably forgot all about it but I’ve got a very long memory which Jane Austen thinks it’s unforgivable *giggles*

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    159. I’m excited about TOJ, too. However, I somehow feel we won’t be seeing Lyanna in the flashback. After all, the only flashback in the series this far left out the end of the book scene. Lyanna, for me, is to remain a somewhat mythical character here.

      My question is, who will play Howland Reed, and will this be the same actor potraying him, if, or when, he’ll appear ? GRRM has confirmed he will appear in books. He could be dropped out of the series, but I doubt it, since I feel he will be a player in the end game. In any case, I can’t see this scene without Howland Reed.

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    160. A Man Grown: The end of that scene was able to easily transition to present day Cersei since she’s still alive. Can’t do that with Ned.

      The ToJ flashback isn’t about Ned. It’s about Jon Snow. The flashcut would go dying Lynna saying “Promise me Ned” while he holds the baby, the Ned actor nodding and then cut to the baby, then to Jon.

      Ravyn: Agree. I think if you step back from the fandom, and look at it as the other 95% of the world audience, bringing back Sean Bean would be distracting, for all the reasons you listed. And I’ll add another one: HBO spends a lot of money per episode, but it’s not limitless. Cost of CGI alone would likely deter them from doing that, especially with all the other scenes they will have to prioritize big money on.

      Exactly. This would be too much money and effort for 60 or so seconds of screen time.

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    161. Cumsprite,

      ““There are few people whom I really love, and still fewer of whom I think well. The more I see of the world, the more am I dissatisfied with it; and every day confirms my belief of the inconsistency of all human characters, and of the little dependence that can be placed on the appearance of merit or sense.”

      ― Jane Austen, Pride and Prejudice – Elizabeth Bennett

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    162. @Tyrion Pimpslap Lol,yeah some people really need to rewatch the show instead of rereading the books a million times if they want to guess what will happen and not get confused,how even now in season 6 people still confuse the book and show is beyond me .

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    163. JCDavis,

      “I dragged that pasty emo Bennett outside and tossed her into the mud. Then I lifted my skirts to my waist, squatted, and farted in the insipid cow’s face.”

      Eustacia Vye

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    164. If you ask me, having Ned Stark be played by someone other than Sean Bean would be much more distracting than any makeup or effects.

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    165. Judibatt,

      I agree that Dany won’t return to Meereen permanently. There’s a difference between settling there, and returning to gather her Unsullied and advisers so that they can all start their trek to Westeros.

      As for Dany going mad: This is very subjective, but imo at the end of Dance, she’s discovered qualities that will be needed in Westeros, if she lands in the middle of continuing instability and a zombie invasion.

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    166. Stan: They are going to need someone from “current” time frame to know the linage of Jon Snow?Since all that knew are dead. Just telling the viewers won’t affect the story at all.If the citizens of Westros are going to know WHO Jon Snow is there has to be a contemporary witness.The big question is WHO is that and how would they convince people that they are authentic.

      I don’t suppose the citizenry of Westeros really need to find out, honestly.

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    167. I honestly don’t understand how anyone here is even considering that they will NOT bring back Sean Bean. From a business perspective (and a story telling perspective), it is what needs to be done. Imagine the marketing and hype for the show if Sean Bean was returning. Getting into the specific details about how many years prior is kind of pointless to be honest. They just have to make him look a little bit younger, which is an easy feat to accomplish. That said, if young Ned is played by someone else, I would bet my life it is because that they could not get Sean back. Guaranteed.

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    168. Talvivaara,

      True. They don’t actually have to show Lyanna, unless they want to show her face as she pleads with her brother to protect the baby.

      Wonder if they would clear up whether Rheagar abducted Lyanna or if they ran away together. It probably matters regarding Jon’s legitimacy.

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    169. King in the North Carolina,

      Agreed. They don’t. Only the viewers need to know… The word of Howland Reed (who very few people in highborn circles would even know, let alone believe) would never be enough to raise Jon to the iron throne. This is more fandom hype.

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    170. I can’t believe there are those who think Ned won’t be played by Sean Bean. IF Ned appears in a flashback, you can be damn sure it’s gonna be Bean. I don’t care whether and how they de-age him, but you can bet we won’t be subjected to a random 30 something guy pretending to be Sean Bean. We’re not talking about a kid here, we’re talking about a fully grown specimen of homo sapiens who last time I checked looked exactly like Sean Bean.

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    171. Snake,

      This. The only reason they get someone else to play Ned would be because Bean refused. Ned at the ToJ is a grown man, not a child or a teen. Switching actors, especially when Bean as Ned is nearly iconic, would be ridiculous.

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    172. King in the North Carolina,

      I have never understood the amount of people who believe Jon’s “legitimacy” will matter in universe. If Jon comes back, which he likely will, and if he ever is king, it won’t be because Rhaegar married Lyanna and Jon is the true heir. It would only happen through conquest. And to be honest, even though I would like for Jon to be king, I don’t believe it will happen. I see his parentage being important for what it means in regards to the AA reborn/dragon has 3 heads prophecy/prophecies and the eventual battle against the Others. His blood will matter if he ever becomes a dragon rider, for instance.

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    173. Ravyn: And nobody in Rome spoke in an English accent. “Rome” was hardly a documentary. They dropped the ball on the narrative aspect of Cleopatra by trying to be offbeat.

      Well no-one in ancient Rome spoke English, though I understand Cleopatra spoke several languages. In truth I found “Rome” iffy – Octavius giving Cleopatra’s children from Antonius to his sister for adoption whereas in real life the daughter was married off and the son killed. I guess in Shakespeare’s time people watching his play ‘Anthony and Cleopatra’ had to put up with a not “hot” Cleopatra as the parts were played by men.

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    174. Critical to ToJ: Arthur Dayne, Ned, Lyanna

      Would also be a great idea: Gerold Hightower – especially since Oldtown is being introduced this season, it makes sense to also introduce the Hightower family–unless they are being left out and all Oldtown sketchery is being given to the Citadel.

      Also needed: Someone Else, who is not dead in the current story. If it’s Bran’s vision, Bran counts. Otherwise we need either Howland Reed or a Wyla figure. Actually I kinda hope we get Wyla, since she was mentioned by name in season 1 and it makes a lot of sense to have a wetnurse present.

      I do kind of hope they pare down the fight from 7×3 to 2×1 or at least 5×2, with all but Ned and Arthur falling pretty quickly. The show has given us some awesome full-on battles and some amazing one-on-one’s, but fights with a handful of people tend to be awkward (Sand Snakes, Yunkai, multi-party pit fighting). So I hope they either REALLY take their time with this fight or pare it down to Ned v. Arthur very quickly.

      ToJ is good news, but I’m not quite ready to get my hopes up about it’s potential awesomeness.

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    175. Aladdin With The Magic Penis Lamp:
      @Tyrion Pimpslap Lol,yeah some people really need to rewatch the show instead of rereading the books a million times if they want to guess what will happenand not get confused,how even now in season 6 people still confuse the book and show is beyond me .

      I find it impossible to remember what is in the books versus what is in the show. The two have merged in my brain in a very strange way. For one thing, the books are so complicated even Martin needs help remembering details. No way I can parse all this without hours and hours of checking, something that is just not going to happen.

      But back to TOJ speculation: I think there are hundreds of different ways to do this scene with present actors, meaning Bean and Williams. To hell with seamless accuracy. These guys have become their parts for the purpose of my imagination.

      I’m not positive we need to see Lyanna. Ned can carry the baby away adding dialog that he promised Lyanna to protect the baby and that he, Ned, would claim the baby as his son.

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    176. Blue Dragon:
      I think Maisie would be perfect. Take a look at what she looks like now without GoT costume dragging her down.

      She looks great (and is a very talented actress), but I’m struggling to imagine how it wouldn’t just be weird and confusing to viewers for her to play Lyanna, given that she’s already playing Arya? I know they’re supposed to look somewhat alike (at least in the books), but they’re not literally the same person. It would surely make more sense to cast a different actress.

      Although if they were doing this, I guess it would explain why there hasn’t been a casting call/announcement for Lyanna yet!

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    177. Maria,

      Agreed, Bean is iconic now as adult Ned, no need to cast anyone, they can apply minimal make-up to take 10 years off and then release him upon Westeros again. The ToJ with Sean will probably be the most watched episode in the series, just not during Memorial weekend please.

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    178. HotPinkLipstick: Sure, they could de-age him with special effects or a ton of makeup, but I think that would take away from the scene because those effects rarely look natural.

      I love Sean Bean, but I do not want this show twisting itself in knots and creating a fakey looking CGI scene just to bring him back.

      Have you seen Ant-Man? I completely forgot that Michael Douglas is in his 70s in that opening sequence. He looked exactly as he did in movies like Fatal Attraction and Wall Street – not fakey-looking at all. The buzz around bringing Sean Bean back into the show, however briefly, would be a goldmine for HBO that would amply compensate for the cost of the CGI.

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    179. SansaSnark: She looks great (and is a very talented actress), but I’m struggling to imagine how it wouldn’t just be weird and confusing to viewers for her to play Lyanna, given that she’s already playing Arya? I know they’re supposed to look somewhat alike (at least in the books), but they’re not literally the same person. It would surely make more sense to cast a different actress.

      Although if they were doing this, I guess it would explain why there hasn’t been a casting call/announcement for Lyanna yet!

      Remember that they can make her look very different, especially for the few seconds it would take to say, ‘promise me.’

      Wig, angles of shot. This might be one reason they are keeping Maisie in short hair and grubby costumes. Appearing as a lady, even a lady in the birthing bed, could be quite dramatic.

      And Ayra looks enough like Lyanna for Bran to mistake Lyanna for Ayra in his dream sequence.

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    180. 454:
      I call this bullshit, how can you say it is confirmed? I won’t believe it until I see it. I really don’t think jon will be resurrected so no need for tower of joy. No lady stone heart , no tower of joy people. Stop this bullshit with LS and TOJ, it’s not going to happen.

      Well, somebody didn’t get their breakfast this morning. Have you seen the previous 5 seasons of Thrones???????? ToJ specifically mentioned by, uh, Jojen Reed, as told to him by his father, Howland Reed. So it does exist and is important to the continuing story. Lady Stoneheart is another matter. Fans want her but there have been no references from other characters so I don’t see her resurrection. And please, eat something. It’ll help with your attitude.

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    181. Wild theory here…

      Perhaps it takes multiple flashbacks to uncover the full TOJ scene? As Bran’s power grows working with Bloodraven, he sees more and more of what happened.

      Final flashback is the full scene and reveal, then cuts to Bran snapping out of the vision and Jon waking up.

      BOOM

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    182. Blue Dragon,

      They needn’t have to show Lyanna at all… just her corpse in a pool of blood and a septa/midwife holding baby Jon. So they can use an extra for that scene without having to cast anybody in particular for that role.
      Using Maisie would be indredibly cheesy, even with CGI.

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    183. One of the simpler ways to make Sean Bean look superficially younger will be having him clean shaven. That’s actually a big change in appearance and it’s cheap!

      I also always imagined a dreamy, hazy lighting to the “Tower Of Joy” sequence as it was (after all) basically a fevered dream of Ned. And considering Lighting has always been a huge way to “disguise” age in cinema, it’s perfectly built into the sequence

      But now I’m thinking maybe the sequence is not only based on Ned’s fevered dream in Book 1, but the expanded stuff (Bran visions?) in “The Winds Of Winter”.

      Martin has already remarked that Ned’s recollection in Book 1 might not be “history” (just a dreamy exaggeration) anyway. And that the last two books will tells us everything we need to know about Robert’s Rebellion.

      I want “Winds” NOW, but I can’t deny it’s exciting not knowing what’s coming.

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    184. 454:
      I call this bullshit, how can you say it is confirmed? I won’t believe it until I see it. I really don’t think jon will be resurrected so no need for tower of joy. No lady stone heart , no tower of joy people. Stop this bullshit with LS and TOJ, it’s not going to happen.

      Lindaaa? Having a bad day today?

        Quote  Reply

    185. I really don’t get the ridiculous suggestions that Maisie could play Lyanna… There are a million actresses that can play her (and NOT Liv Tyler. She’s American.. And just, no).

      Back to Maisie- this would just confuse the audience and would be cheesy as hell. The shows production values are vastly superior to that ridiculous kinda format.

      As for no casting on Lyanna (yet). That’s because she’ll only be needed for 1 scene (indoors at Belfast studios). They don’t need to cast her just yet (this new swordsman casting call has only just gone out after all).

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    186. Paul,
      ITA! Why would anyone want Maisie as Lyanna? Arya and Lyanna are supposed to look like Starks, not like twins. By this reasoning, they might as well dress Jon up as a woman, and have him play Lyanna.

        Quote  Reply

    187. I suppose ToJ could be filmed without Lyanna, but it would be narratively wrong, a slap at the books, and look to cynics like a chintzy attempt to save money. MORE IMPORTANT, it would be removing a key player in the ultimate story (assuming L+R=J) to emphasise others. MOST important, it would be removing a key FEMALE character, rendering her a mere vessel who happened to give birth to J. Seven hells would break out, as they should. And where would be the drama, the sacrifice, the nobility of “I promise” without the promisee for whom Ned sacrifices everything–his peace, his marriage, and indirectly his life? I’ve not seen a casting call for a Lyanna-type actress, but if Lyanna’s deleted from THE key scene of this saga, millions of fans will bail. Would Christ’s story work as well without the Virgin Mary? I almost think Linda’s rants would be justified.

      Off-topic, reports are coming in today that HBO is seriously considering a “Deadwood” film. IIRC, back when the show was canceled, many fans discussed a film to tie up the story. I think it is long overdue and must be done before Ian McShane is in his dotage.

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    188. Cumsprite:
      JCDavis,

      “I dragged that pasty emo Bennett outside and tossed her into the mud. Then I lifted my skirts to my waist, squatted, and farted in the insipid cow’s face.”

      Eustacia Vye

      Oh, so that is how low you have to stoop? Thomas Hardy, the porn slinger disguised as a real writer?

      *ring ring ring* SHAME SHAME *ring ring ring*

      😀

        Quote  Reply

    189. Paul: (and NOT Liv Tyler. She’s American.. And just, no).

      While I agree with you on the “no” for Liv Tyler, I’m not sure what her being American has to do with it, other than the fact not many American actors have been cast in the show.

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    190. Maria:
      Paul,
      ITA! Why would anyone want Maisie as Lyanna? Arya and Lyanna are supposed to look By this reasoning, they might as well dress Jon up as a woman, and have him play Lyanna.

      HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

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    191. I’m pretty sure that John Bradley’s response to a fan asking why Sam was still fat can be turned into my feelings about the whole Sean Bean playing younger thing. And I (mis)quote:

      “OK, look. This is a fantasy show. We’ve got fire-breathing giant dragons, we’ve got ice zombies, we’ve got women giving birth to a cloud — why do you think it’s Sean Bean playing a 30-something year old that you just don’t buy?’”

        Quote  Reply

    192. Blue Dragon: Remember that they can make her look very different, especially for the few seconds it would take to say, ‘promise me.’

      Wig, angles of shot. This might be one reason they are keeping Maisie in short hair and grubby costumes. Appearing as a lady, even a lady in the birthing bed, could be quite dramatic.

      And Ayra looks enough like Lyanna for Bran to mistake Lyanna for Ayra in his dream sequence.

      Lyanna and Arya looking alike is a book thing, I might be wrong but to my knowledge they have never mentioned that Arya and Lyanna looks alike in the show. They have to find someone who looks more like Kit Harington. Maise Williams and Kit Harington doesn’t really look alike. They would properly have to find someone with brown eyes, and give them a curly black wig.

      TV and books are different mediums, in the books GRRM uses the connection between Lyanna and Arya, because Arya and Jon is suppose to look alike, and we cant actually see the characters on the pages. But on the show where we can actually see the actors this obviously isn’t the case.

      The roles of Lyanna and Rheagar will not be big roles, they will properly use unknown actors for these roles.

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    193. H.Stark:
      GoT crew is inAlmeria
      Set building starts on monday

      http://www.lavozdealmeria.es/vernoticia.php?IdNoticia=88345&IdSeccion=5

      The article also mentions that sources said the set at EL Chorrillo might stand for a circular building, as some kind of temple.

      Then they mention that they will also be filming at Tabernas desert (for which they will need a lot of horses) and at Sorbas, which is a place I hadnt heard of before. It looks nice on google.

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    194. I’d love Lily Collins or Katie McGrath as Lyanna, but I honestly doubt they’d get a big name actress for the role since it’ll probably be for just the one scene.

      Having said that… holy shit. Tower of Joy = fucking CONFIRMED. GET HYPE.

        Quote  Reply

    195. The Actress that I think is best for Lyanna Stark Emma Watson and the positive media blitz from her role would be an HBO dream

        Quote  Reply

    196. Pigeon: why do you think it’s Sean Bean playing a 30-something year old that you just don’t buy?’”

      Umm… why should I, as a viewer, have to buy Sean Bean as a young man? I am watching a TV show. Visually, I would like to get immersed in the scene. I liked a young girl playing young Cersei and understood immediately that it was young Cersei. By your reasoning, they could have had Lena Headey playing young Cresei. Why the need? If the audience needs a very visual connection, have Bran “see” Sean Bean-as-Ned in the Winterfell crypts standing in front of Lyanna’s statue and then go the ToJ scene. It will be quite clear to show-only viewers. 🙂

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    197. Robb Snow,

      Same here …I had said that Jenna Coleman would make a great Lyanna, and she would if they were going for alot of dialogue between her and Ned……. but on second thought if they follow the books the actress would have only three words to say….promise me Ned!

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    198. 1- Are some of you guys insane? Of couse Sean Beam HAVE to be in the scene of TOJ, Do not mather how old he is Now, he has to play a man is his 35. This is not hard to make belivable, Alan Rickman into his 65 played a Snape at his 35-40 just with make up, and at the Final Harry Potter they put Cgi an he looks like 25. Don´t be worried about that, HAS TO BE SEAN BEAN!

      2- I´m Pretty sure the fight will have 7 against 3 OR 2. This thing of ´´ fights with many people be bad´´, dont exist, you people are Too much traumatized with that scene with the sand snakes, A fight of 20 vs 6 can be amazing if weel choreographed and tested!

      And DO NOT FORGET guys, They have to put Arthur as a maximum swordsman, they can´t put him to kill one or two single guys an be a legend he is. He has to kill at least 3 and almost kill Ned…

      The final scene of Barristan, he killed a lot of Sons of Harpy alone and into his age. Arthur has to kill for me at least 3 and almost kill ned. He is THE legend.

      In my opinios will be 7 against 3 ( Dayne and HighTower)

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    199. Sean C.:
      Pigeon,

      That whole line of argument is comparing things that are not really comparable, in my view.

      I just find it rather baffling that of all the things going on, the idea of Sean Bean playing a younger person is causing people to freak out is fairly odd….people have connected with him. He IS who the audience knows as Ned without spending time on explaining a new guy, he’s a fantastic actor who wants to come back, and having 3 Neds in total may be asking a bit much of an audience to ‘believe’, to be honest. Obviously it’s not the same as John Bradley having some rude-ass dummy asking him why he’s still fat, I just liked the whole “why is THIS an issue” aspect of his response.

      Kay: Umm… why should I, as a viewer, have to buy Sean Bean as a young man? I am watching a TV show. Visually, I would like to get immersed in the scene. I liked a young girl playing young Cersei and understood immediately that it was young Cersei. By your reasoning, they could have had Lena Headey playing young Cresei. Why the need? If the audience needs a very visual connection, have Bran “see” Sean Bean-as-Ned in the Winterfell crypts standing in front of Lyanna’s statue and then go the ToJ scene. It will be quite clear to show-only viewers.

      Umm….you don’t ‘have’ to believe anything. Your comparison to young Cersei doesn’t tally – SB wouldn’t be playing a 12 year old Ned. We already have one. He’d be playing someone 20 years older than that. As I said, do we really need 3 levels of Ned for what will be a comparably short sequence? It makes things more complicated than erasing a few lines and getting rid of some greys.

      People are just taking the supposed ages of the characters way too seriously – they are not making the TOJ characters 20 years old. They aren’t casting Arthur Dayne as a mid-20’s character either. Settle down.

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    200. Queensmoot,

      A Man Grown,

      I agree with some of what you said: I was angry with the comments about Liv Tyler on the previous post. She looks amazing for ANY age, has had a baby this year (hence her weight pre and post), and is generally a very striking woman. However, I wasn’t one of the ones calling for her casting (a ridiculous idea; an unknown actor should be used so as not to distract from the content of the scene itself).

      BUT no one is suggesting Sean Bean can play a 20 year old. A rough looking 35, yes. He and Mark Addy were both late 40s/early 50s at the start of the show. Jason Mawle (Benjen) was early 30s but looked older (the Wall is a hard life).

      Using anyone other than Sean Bean would throw most viewers out of the scene, detract from the significance/emotional resonance of it, and deny the GoT team a chance to hype a Sean Bean return. I’d be very surprised if they don’t do it.

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    201. Patrick R,

      I’d like to live in that universe that Emma Watson would accept a TV role for a character that appearence would last 10 min at most,that sounds like a fun universe,because it sure as hell isn’t this one .

        Quote  Reply

    202. Kay,

      You aren’t even trying now come on,Cersei in the flashback was a child ffs,it’s not even close to being a fair comparison .

        Quote  Reply

    203. mau,

      I’d love to see him back, fingers crossed. I’m sure there will be more to wonder about than a much loved actor returning to a much loved show. Like how Sansa and Theon actually survive their fall without Bran-ing themselves.

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    204. There is technology available now that can make any actor look like they are in their 20s. It’s probably expensive but could be used by HBO to bring Sean Bean back.

        Quote  Reply

    205. Aladdin With The Magic Penis Lamp: You aren’t even trying now come on,Cersei in the flashback was a child ffs,it’s not even close to being a fair comparison .

      Tyrion Pimpslap: Lena playing a 12 year old is a bit different than Bean playing a 32-35 year old

      mau: You do understand that there is a difference between Cersei (10 in flashback) and Ned (30s)?

      Thank you ALL, for pointing out my very vast error. I still would, most definitely, NOT like Sean Bean playing ToJ Ned.

      Pigeon: People are just taking the supposed ages of the characters way too seriously – they are not making the TOJ characters 20 years old. They aren’t casting Arthur Dayne as a mid-20’s character either. Settle down.

      I am not in an uproar, thanks. I just don’t like the idea. I see my error in pointing that out on this discussion board.

        Quote  Reply

    206. Sarah,
      Yes, it could be. If they put the fighting inside the TOJ…then they would only need it for outdoor shots without actors. The inside shots can be done in Northern Ireland indoors. And one could suppose that even if they do the fight outside, they could do establishing shots of the TOJ outside without actors and then in Northern Ireland have the fight done in studio in against a green screen plus the internal scenes. This would keep it away from our prying eyes. There’s many ways to skin this cat.

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    207. Igor Thadeu:
      Like i said, just Sean bean can play this scene.

      Alan rickman into his 65 played a 35-40 snape, just with make up
      And with CGI he played a 20-25 snape at the final Movie of HP.

      Sean bean with good make up and some litlle Cgi can perfect look like this:

      https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSyqxvP_TGxvbnxfUBFErYB2vjjm7jElqMyh4jeKuLeiFIop-9u

      Agreed, clean shaven cheeks, hair color, and hide his eye lines with makeup and he will look totally look the right age. Not to mention Sean is a great actor and that will contribute to it as well. Season 1 Ned was quite somber, methodical, and intentional in his actions with a strong but monotone speaking style…Like an older man who has who has been a family and political leader for a while and is weary. Ned in the flashback could be played with more energy and influction and that itself would get across his age just as well as the visuals

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    208. fucking amazing!

      ToJ can be a spectacular scene, really memorable! I think with some special effects Sean Bean himself could return to the skin of Ned Stark, much better than a young actor Twilight Saga style.

        Quote  Reply

    209. I’m in the pro-Sean Bean camp. With the kind of tech they have now they could easily make Sean Bean look 30 years younger. They would only have to do it for the ToJ scene which might be 10-15 minutes tops. Plus he’s already said he’d be down to come back for a flashback or vision.

      Make it happen, HBO!

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    210. Ok, I’m usually pretty stubborn. It isn’t like I can never change my opinion, but it isn’t easy to do. However, after reading all the discussion, thinking about it, and looking up some recent pictures of him clean shaven and with short hair, Sean Bean could actually pull off early/mid 30’s if the lighting were a little dim (and this is GoT, so that won’t be a problem…hahaha), and they used a filter on the lens. Maybe it wouldn’t work if it had to be sustained over a season, but for only a couple of scenes, one of which should be primarily a fast-moving fight, it could work.

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    211. Patrick R:
      Aladdin With The Magic Penis Lamp,

      We are talking about a fantasy story world & I expressed an opinion. GOT is a big deal
      and big stars have been doing cameo roles for decades for lesser roles than Lyanna so I live in the real universe just fine thank you.

      Those “big stars” that were doing cameos were only doing it because they weren’t really big anymore or as a favor to a friend who was a director or producer on that respective show and those actors were doing it for free or pocket change,she defintely won’t come cheap . And i don’t know what this being a fantasy world has to do with anything,is that going to convince Emma Watson to appear in a 5 min role anymore than usual or what ?

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    212. FTW….WTF:

      Darkstar: Liana

      thornofhighgarden: Liana

      Liana

      I am sure she can but yes they mostly cast European actors so not happening. As she just happened to be in Croatia and mentioned a new project coming up i immediately thought of her.

      We differ on what is cute and gorgeous then!

      Cool you met her!

      I was under the impression Lyanna Stark had her Tower scene in her late teens in the books… Of course everyone has been aged up on the show. And for the timelines to make sense they could well be looking for older than that as you say.

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    213. They really need to bring back Sean Bean for the Tower of Joy scene…. another younger actor I don’t think would work. With the right makeup, with a helmet, they could make Sean Bean look 20, but they need his presence.

        Quote  Reply

    214. Vlad,

      How many times do people have to say that he was in his 30’s at that time not 20 before people get it ?

        Quote  Reply

    215. I don’t think the second casting call is just an updated version of the first one. I can’t help but notice how the part about the “hugely famous sword” and “paragon of knighthood” has been removed in the 2nd casting call.
      I’m convinced they are casting Gerold Hightower as well as Arthur Dayne (maybe Oswell Whent has been removed from the TV show), but couldn’t find a good swordsman with a muscular physique for this new role so they have to use a stunt fighter.

      And I too expect to see Sean Bean in this flashback!

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    216. JCDavis: Oh, so that is how low you have to stoop?Thomas Hardy, the porn slinger disguised as a real writer?

      *ring ring ring*SHAME SHAME *ring ring ring*

      Oh JC, I know it’s only a jokey comment but T Hardy is a “classical” writer that I like…48 years since the 1960s film version of “Far from the Madding Crowd” and I’m still not over the fact they cast a blonde as Bathsheba……

      McMannis,

      Well if that party is playing Lyanna then that knocks any idea of SB playing younger Ned at ToJ on the head.

        Quote  Reply

    217. I just woke from sleep, i dreamed that they’re making a flashback scene for Brandon and peter’s combat for Cat’s hand

        Quote  Reply

    218. Could Welsh actor Catrin Stewart be a possibility to play Lyanna? Currently one of the leads in Stella, was also in Misfits and Dr Who (the ep with Diana Rigg). She’s 27, has a similar look to Maisie and apparently has a little swordfighting experience which could be handy if they wanted to do KOTL scene!

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    219. GrandmaesterFlash: Amanda Barrie is still alive and kicking.Perhaps you are thinking of her Coronation Street character, Alma.

      You are quite correct. I only want Corrie intermittently but I just checked Wikipedia and she is indeed still with us. I may be thinking of some other actress around her age but just now can’t think which. Linsey Marshal in “Rome” did remind me of Amanda in “Carry on Cleo” though as I stated before. The couple of episodes I watched of “Penny Dreadful” made me think of “Carry on Screaming” – which is maybe (apart from zee dodgee accents) why I couldn’t get into it.

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    220. Dame of Mercia,

      I have nothing but respect for Mr. Hardy’s work. But when someone leads with a right hook to the jaw of Ms. Austen, then smackdown gonna happen. 😉 *looks at Cumsprite* 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    221. greywind’s ghost,

      The key for any Lyanna casting is that she should resemble Kit, not Maisie. Lyanna in the books is said to have looked like Arya, but that’s as part of a chain of similarities between Lyanna, Arya and Jon. Maisie and Kit, by contrast, don’t look much alike, so the chain is broken.

        Quote  Reply

    222. Sean C.:
      greywind’s ghost,

      The key for any Lyanna casting is that she should resemble Kit, not Maisie.Lyanna in the books is said to have looked like Arya, but that’s as part of a chain of similarities between Lyanna, Arya and Jon.Maisie and Kit, by contrast, don’t look much alike, so the chain is broken.

      Catrin doesn’t look dissimilar to Kit either, she has a longer face than Maisie’s round one- Certainly looks like a Stark!

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    223. JCDavis,

      Well I respect Jane Austen too. There have been some good adaptations of her works over the years (including the one with the actress who almost played Caitlyn , Jennifer Ehle as Lizzie Bennett in “Pride and Prejudice”) but Ms Austen’s source material is worthy in its own right. I think Ms Ehle may have cried off because of family commitments. I loved Michelle Fairley’s portrayal but I think Ms Ehle could have pulled it off too. To my shame I was doing a course once where we touched on “irony” and didn’t recognise these famous opening lines of “Pride and Prejudice” which are (to me at least) splendidly ironic:-

      “IT is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife.

      However little known the feelings or views of such a man may be on his first entering a neighbourhood, this truth is so well fixed in the minds of the surrounding families, that he is considered as the rightful property of some one or other of their daughters.”

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    224. I don’t know if this question has already been addressed, if it has I apologize.

      IF Rhagear married Lyanna wouldn’t that make him a bigamist? Wasn’t he already married to Elia Martell? (I can’t remember what their marital status was in the books.) If he and Lyanna had a baby out of wedlock wouldn’t that make Jon a Targaryen bastard instead of a Stark bastard? How could Jon have any claim to the Iron Throne if he were still a bastard?

        Quote  Reply

    225. GOT Fan,

      Yes. Jon would still be a bastard, no matter if his father is Ned or Rhaegar. Some have speculated that Rhaegar could have married her like Aegon did with his sisters, but I think most people in Westeros wouldn’t think of such ceremony as valid.
      I’t doesn’t matter, really. I don’t think it’s Jon’s destiny to sit on the Iron Throne.

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    226. The theory is that because some Targs had double marriages which were recognized, this one would also be recognized.

      However, I believe Jon’s chances of sitting the IT are slim and his role is to lend his expertise fighting the WWs. Some of that expertise might have to do with his inherited Targ and Stark traits. Now if Dany learns he is her nephew, she might be more inclined to marry him to re-establish a Targ dynasty.

        Quote  Reply

    227. Blue Dragon,

      Sorry, Maisie as Lyanna would be really weird to me.

      Also, doing ToJ without Lyanna would be pretty obnoxious, since she is the entire reason for the scene taking place. Jon is only important because he’s the son of L + R. Yanking that from the show would really hollow out the heart of the story.

      I know a ton of people are stoked for the Ned/Arthur Dayne fight, but I’m way more stoked for this critical moment between Ned and Lyanna. Leaving her out or using Maisie would really ruin it for me.

        Quote  Reply

    228. If we are to see Ned Stark at the ToJ, then it has to be Sean Bean.

      Forget the ages, the show is not consistent with the book anyway.

      We last saw Sean as Ned four years ago.
      The ToJ scene is set about 17 years earlier.
      So they need to make Sean look about 20 years younger than he is.
      He’s in pretty good shape, so it’s not too much of a stretch with lighting, make-up, a shave etc.

        Quote  Reply

    229. GOT Fan,

      Yes, you are entirely right. Jon would be a Targaryen bastard. However, there are a kind of “jurisprudence” in the Ice and Fire universe. The king Aegon IV Targaryen on his deathbed had recognized his bastard sons converting them into potential heirs to the Iron Throne. Because of this fact it happened the Blackfire rebellion.

        Quote  Reply

    230. Blind Beth,

      Well, lots of things the show has done are pretty obnoxious. Using the actor playing Tommen’s cousin to age him up required quite a lot of suspension of disbelief.

      The idea of Jon being legitimate has to do with Kings Guard being present at TOJ. I supposed Rhaegar could have ordered it, but this is part of the mystery. Why would the guard stay there when their prince rode off to war??

      I find it increasingly curious how certain things turn people off concerning film and ‘realism’ — I can tolerate a lot others cannot. Voice over, for instance, never bothers me.

      Fans have their own ideas concerning what can and should happen, especially in book to film adaptations.

      I’m pretty open, but Tommen bothered me a lot and switching Daario actor also bothered me a lot, but I got used to the new actor who I had seen before and liked.

      I, too, would really like to see Lyanna and could care less about how the fight goes as long as it isn’t awkward and strange.

      Why the Kings Guard at the TOJ??? This question cannot be forgotten.

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    231. Colour me worried. Not sure why we need to see the fight outside the ToJ as it has no relevance to anything else. Also, are they going to include all the character present there? If it’s just Ned vs. Dayne and Ned wins then they’ve smashed the character to pieces.
      I hope it works but I sense it may be an excuse to shove another action scene in there that doesn’t add anything to the story.
      Also, if they cast Sean Bean as Ned in this flashback then they need their heads examined.

        Quote  Reply

    232. Cumsprite,

      Oh Spritey – one can like Jane Austen AND the Brontes – or are you being sarcastic? Of course if Ms Austen – or the Bronte sisters – are not your “cuppa” that is fair enough; different strokes for different folks. Being forced to read books at school can make one turn against authors (not saying that is so in your case). I would much prefer to have had either an Austen or Bronte novel to study at A level than to have to slog through Walter Scott (“The Antiquary”) and Joseph Conrad (“Nostromo”).

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    233. TheTouchOfFrost:
      Not sure why we need to see the fight outside the ToJ as it has no relevance to anything else.

      Because it’s cool? Why did we need to see the Batlle of Blackwater? They could have just skipped it and have Cersei tell Sansa “We’ve won it, but my brother has almost died”.

        Quote  Reply

    234. TheTouchOfFrost,

      I will never understand your opposition to this scene being filmed. It’s so strange. The kingsguard being present and guarding Lyanna and Jon is too important to skip. Your opinion seems to be that the battle/dialogue should be skipped, and all they should show is Ned in the tower with Lyanna. Is it that you want this to be saved for a prequel? I just don’t get it. Who cares if it doesn’t live up to your imagination, nothing does, but it will still be great to see the Sword Of The Morning on screen.

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    235. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Why would they need their head examined to use Bean as Ned? Ned at ToJ is a grown man, not a teen. It would be weird for the audience to have anyone else but Bean, whom they think of as adult Ned, play adult Ned in a flashback. Otherwise, it would feel like the Daario switch, but worse, as the first Daario was hardly a well-loved character.

      Re battle: Why not? They could cast 3 vs 7, or they could do Ned+friend vs Dayne, whatever. Point is, the crown prince’s key kingsguard(s) were not at the battle, but off defending this godforsaken tower in the middle of nowhere. Ned, an honorable guy, attacked them 7 vs 3, because of something in that tower. The battle in the book was gorgeous, and I hope the show does justice to it. I also hope that they keep the aftermath, where Ned tears down the tower, and uses the stones to build cairns for the dead.

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    236. GrandmaesterFlash,

      Just thought they’d have a clearer direction at this point in time. They seem to have been a lot more on point with casting in previous seasons.

      Tywin of the Hill,

      Completely different as Blackwater was happening in the present with characters that we knew about and their motivations. ToJ has none of that oging for it.

      Tyrion Pimpslap,

      Why is having the KG there important? No one knows who they are and the battle has no relevance to the events in the show (unless they cast Howland Reed now and for future seasons). Currently, it serves no purpose. To give it genuine meaning they need to give more backstory which they haven’t got time to do. And to answer your question, I’d rather it be done properly or not at all. So yes a prequel would be the ideal although I am fully aware that may never happen. Ned and Lyanna is essential to the plot so that makes sense to put in but the rest is fat that can be trimmed.
      I’m hoping I’m wrong but I was hoping I was wrong about the SS last season.

        Quote  Reply

    237. Maria,

      The Ned in the show is at least 20 years older than the Ned in the show version of ToJ. I thought Sean Bean was great as Ned and am a big fan of his but this is silly having him play a 20 something year old at his age. Daario is completely different as it was in time periods right next to eachother and not a 20+ year gap!
      But it’s detail that isn’t really needed in a flashback! Struggling to see how they can do it justice in what should only be a small flashback scene. Also, the battle never happened in the books. All we know is the aftermath.
      So you’re suggesting we have the build for why they’re fighting (which is going to have to be substantial as there’s only one character that viewers are familiar with), the 7 vs 3 battle itself, the scene with Lyanna and Ned and Ned and Howland building Cairns? How long is this flashback going to last?!
      I think they should focus on the story being told and not get distracted by trying to shoehorn in a cool scene.

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    238. Dame of Mercia,

      I am not being sarcastic. Like just about everyone in the planet, I was assigned to read Pride and Prejudice in high school. I thought it was painfully boring. After a few years and many books later I decided to give Austen another chance and read several of her works. Still dull.

        Quote  Reply

    239. Cumsprite,

      Mark Twain said:
      “Every time I read Pride and Prejudice I want to dig her up and beat her over the skull with her own shin bone!” (I am stitching this on a pillow)

      Emerson said:
      “Suicide is more reasonable” when referring to the way JA wrote her vision of England during that period.

      I have to actually say thank you, what a laugh that gave me. Bronte’s Jane Eyre is one of my favorite books, ever. Just because I love Austen, doesn’t mean I can’t also love other period writers. That is like saying If you love Martin, you can’t love Tolkien or Herbert or McCaffrey. Laughable.

      There will always be the haters gonna hate. It is why there is 31 flavors at the ice cream shop. But it IS fun playing in the same playground as you.

        Quote  Reply

    240. TheTouchOfFrost,

      No matter how good the scene is, some people will still say that it didn’t do “justice” to the books.

      i expect the flashback will be about 4-6 min long, if the entire thing is done in 1 scene, i personally tough suspect that it will be multiple scenes.

      I don’t think you need to care about/know Hightower and Whent to understand/enjoy the scene. I don’t even think Whent, for exemple, was even mentioned before the flashback, in the books.
      All that matter is Ned. if Ned is there, the audience will care.

      About Dayne? I suspect Jaime will talk about him, a little.
      But not even Dayne really matters. only thing that matters is Ned.

      And why show the fight? To show how far Lyanna was taken, to show that the kingsguard protects a girl instead Viserys, who was the ”rightfull” king…..etc.

      And honestly it’s should be a nice fight. there’s nothing to compare it to, as it does not take place in the books, as you said. So there is no possibility they’ll do it “unjustice”, as it does not even happen in the books.

      I personaly watch TV/movies to be entertained, and i truly think that scene will do it.

      EDIT: Oh and about Sean Bean. I don’t care how young he’ll look, i just want him. Here i really don’t care about consistancy/immersion, i want Ned Stark not some random guy.

        Quote  Reply

    241. TheTouchOfFrost,

      The KG being there is important because of Jon. They were guarding Jon instead of Viserys. Their presence makes the audience understand how important Rhaegar felt Jon was.

        Quote  Reply

    242. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      Agreed. And lets be honest, seeing Ned Stark fight 3 KG (or even Dayne alone!) would be awesome. I don’t think D&D or HBO would pass that chance.

      Just imagine the first GOT treailer showing Ned. The audiance would go insane.

        Quote  Reply

    243. TheTouchOfFrost,
      I’ll assume that the ToJ happened around 18-19 years before Ned’s beheading, which, given the changed ages, probably makes the character in his mid-late twenties. That is not a teen, or a child. That’s an adult. Bean as adult Ned is iconic, and replacing him with another (younger) adult actor would be distracting. On top of that, Bean’s in fine shape. Slap some makeup and throw some cgi, if you must, but keep him as Ned.

      Also, ToJ is a key scene; it should make clear that Ned (BEAN) was never Jon’s father. Casting another, unfamiliar actor to play the adult Ned would confuse the connection the audience already has built between these two characters, and wreck the scene.

      lol I agree that cairns thing would be too much; I just want to see how they did it! The fight, though, is in the books, in Ned’s flashbacks. We don’t get it blow by blow, but we know it happened, where it happened, who was involved, and what the outcome was. We know Ned and his men were almost defeated. What we get of the battle in the books is stylized, almost an acid trip. I hope that if they film it, they keep that weird atmosphere.

        Quote  Reply

    244. Mihnea,

      Tyrion Pimpslap,

      Maria,

      Well, we each have our opinions as to what is deemed important. I don’t think any more emphais needs to be placed on Jon’s importance when he’s arguably the star of the show.
      I honestly hope they pull it off but I’m not confident. The Cersei flashback was pretty inept IMO and added nothing and there’s a lot of stuff that needs explaining which I don’t think they will be able to do effectively in the time given.
      You won’t convince me bringing back Sean Bean as young version of himself is a good idea. It’s pandering to the fans. Give a young actor the chance and make it more believable. If you’re worried about the average viewer being confused by a younger actor playing Ned then it doesn’t bode to well for them recognising who Lyanna, Rhaegar and the KG are! The only argument for having Sean return is I like Sean Bean at the moment and that’s not agood enough!
      Just hope they do the KG proud. They’ve already neglected them massively in the show sos to have Arthur Dayne ( apparently the greatest swordsman who ever lived) lose to Ned in a one on one sword fight would be kicking them when they’re down.

        Quote  Reply

    245. Cumsprite:
      Dame of Mercia,

      I am not being sarcastic. Like just about everyone in the planet, I was assigned to read Pride and Prejudice in high school. I thought it was painfully boring. After a few years and many books later I decided to give Austen another chance and read several of her works. Still dull.

      Well, like I say – different strokes for different folks. I will happily never read another Joseph Conrad if I live to be 100.

        Quote  Reply

    246. Does anyone know when this pic was taken? It has shown up in three articles from this past week and I do not remember seeing it before- but I am not a three-eyed raven either.
      It struck me as odd if it is new because Michelle Fairely is in it…
      gty_game_of_thrones_sk_140606_16x9_992.jpg

      Sorry for the weird googly-stuff. I cannot figure out how to add a pic in the responses.

        Quote  Reply

    247. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Man you just NO make sense at everything you say, what do you mean by no revelance for the history?????? Scenes like this make the story deeper, interesting, emotional.

      so if you want only scecnes to add some to the history you shoul hate every Got series an every movie, and every book who can tell a history.

      At Harry potter and half blood prince, we see the memories of voldemort, they are amazing, to se how voldemort was and everything, but just the last memorie is crucial for the history, But everyone i know loved all the memories.

      Your point just don´t make any sense, every episode of got, of everithin ever created has scenes where desenvolve a character or somenthing it will come next.

      for god sake dude, whats wrong with you?

        Quote  Reply

    248. Pigeon,

      Ok let’s have Sean Bean play chlid flashback Ned too then? Sure they can make it work with CGI and make up and the like.

      It really isn’t that hard. Just get a young actor who bears a similarity to a young Sean Bean (I’d go with Alex Pettyfer) give him the Ned haircut and what Ned wore in the show ( plenty of Direwolf sigils),etc and have someone refer to him as Ned and you’re there.

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    249. TheTouchOfFrost,

      HAHAHAHAAH, again you are make no sense, One example, Alan Rickman with 65 years playes a snape at his 30-40 ONLY WITH MAKE UP, with cgi they put Alan rickman looked like a snape at his 20 years in the last Movie.

        Quote  Reply

    250. Igor Thadeu,

      I make no sense yet you’ve understood everything I said and have responded to it? How bizarre.
      If they’re done properly they can but my worry is that they won’t have the time to do them effectively if it’s to be confined to a flashback (which it really has to be for the show to move forward effectively).
      I didn’t like Harry Potter so not a great example to use for me, I’m afraid. But again, it’s using characters that have been firmly established in the world it is set in. I’m still sure that not many viewers ( outside of the fandom of this site and those of it’s ilk and book readers ) really know who Lyanna and Rheagar are let alone Arthur Dayne,etc.
      I’m sorry, that paragraph didn’t make any sense. I’m not sure what you were asking?
      Now this may just blow your mind but I am afflicted with something called ‘a different opinion to you’. It may seem like there’s something wrong with me but , don’t worry, it’s perfectly normal and isn’t contagious in any way.

        Quote  Reply

    251. Igor Thadeu,

      We’re having a remarkably in depth conversation seeing as you still can’t understand me!
      Erm younger Severus Snape was played by Alec Hopkins in Order of the Phoenix and Benedict Clarke in the second part of Deathly Hallows. In the scene where he finds Lily he still looks at least 40. So Sean Bean, (who is coming up to 60) could look like a 40 year old Ned when the character should be in his mid 20s at latest? Sorry, it’s too much of a stretch and looks silly.

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    252. Pigeon,

      It’s like trying to hammer a square peg into a circular hole! Sean Bean was great as Ned but he’s played his part! The show isn’t in a position where it needs to rely on nostalgia for a past character! Those who zealously demand for Lady SH are of the same thought-process. Characters leave. The show goes on!

        Quote  Reply

    253. Funny, I would have thought the Bronte book readers would know her criticism of Jane Austen’s work and the roots of it. The true story is that she was royally pissed because a literary critic and a correspondent of Ms. Charlotte Bronte suggested she’d get more out of her work if she’d write with less melodrama.

      She, of little diplomacy and even less restraint, had never read Ms. Austen’s books so curious to see what he’s admiring so, goes and buys one and reads it. This is what she wrote in her letter to the critic who dared to suggest Austen’s style.

      If I ever do write another book, I think I will have nothing of what you call “melodrama”; I think so, but I am not sure. I think too I will endeavour to follow the counsel which shines out of Miss Austen’s “mild eyes”; “to finish more and be more subdued”; but neither am I sure of that. When authors write best, or at least, when they wrote most fluently, an influence seems to waken in them which becomes their master, which will have its own way, putting out of view all behests but its own, dictating words, and insisting on their being used, whether vehement or measured in their nature; new moulding characters, giving unthought- of turns to incidents, rejecting carefully elaborated old ideas, and suddenly creating and adopting new ones. Is this not so? And should we try to counteract this influence? Can we indeed counteract it?…

      Why do you like Miss Austen so very much? I am puzzled on that point. What induced you to say you would rather have written “Pride and Prejudice” or “Tom Jones’” than any of the Waverly Novels? I had not seen “Pride and Prejudice” till I read that sentence of yours, and then I got the book and studied it. And what did I find? An accurate daguerrotyped portrait of a common-place face; a carefully-fenced, highly cultivated garden with near borders and delicate flowers- but no glance of a bright vivid physiognomy- no open country- no fresh air- no blue hill- no bonny beck. I should hardly like to live with her ladies and gentlemen in they elegant but confined houses. These observations will probably irritate you, but I shall run the risk.

      Now I’m not reading in their age but English is still English. She sounds petty and seething. LOL Kind of like Martin when Rowling got the Hugo. I don’t know. It may be just me.

      Her “critique” is also pure subjectivity, because I find absolutely everything she seems to be missing in Austen’s novel. The passions are all there, under the surface and reigned and everyone is telling a lot with more than a few words.

      It is a credit to Austen’s writing that she succeeds in conveying for example Darcy’s growing passion for Lizzy in one single line delivered to Miss Bingley “I have considered her as one of the handsomest women of my acquaintance”. Clearly not declaration of love if it had been said by any other character in another writer’s world but definitely in Austen’s!

      And while I don’t dislike any of the Bronte sister’s works, I agree by the way with the critic who admired Austen over her Jane Eyre, her Mr. Rochester stinks of Byronic “woe is me” my secret is unbearable and I am shackled for life in misery. This took the cake from Jane Eyre:

      “Besides, since happiness is irrevocably denied me, I have a right to get pleasure out of life: and I will get it, cost what it may.”
      “Then you will degenerate still more, sir.”
      “Possibly: yet why should I, if I can get sweet, fresh pleasure? And I may get it as sweet and fresh as the wild honey the bee gathers on the moor.”

      I used to love this at 16. I swear such alpha male was so gothically appealing to a teenager who dreams of completely unrealistic males who talk and act so. When I grew up I started to see the light. I realized that egocentric alpha males have lost their appeal to me. And the Bronte sisters wrote exclusively those (aka can we all say Heathcliff?!) I rather like the smart, quiet, proud yet dependable and resembling real life male characters who evolve and learn from their mistakes (see Mr. Darcy)

      So for those who want to try a real treat, I suggest giving Jane Austen’s Pride and Prejudice another go. Then again, maybe you are not ready! #SuckIt #YouKnowWhoYouAre

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    254. Is there a reason why comments are lost? I mean granted mine was totally off topic (no more than others though I might add, and I see theirs up there), and much longer than any of Sue’s recaps but I actually sat and typed it for 10 min. And looked for typos for 20.

      And I even googled a Jane Eyre letter quote! That shit is taking time. I’m just saying. Y’all should just say: off topic is a no no and comments no longer than so and so characters are not going to post. Now I’m sorry for the typo checking.

        Quote  Reply

    255. Tormund’s Woman,

      I lost a comment yesterday – I was thinking it was something to do with the internet connection (I run anti-ad and anti-tracking software on my desktop computer) but if it’s happening to other people too, maybe not. Could it be the sheer amount of traffic the site receives. If a few people are trying to post at once does it get overwhelmed? That is just me surmising – and not directly anything to do with the ToJ, so off-topic, naughty me. Trouble is not many people use the forums for the OT stuff – or at least not everybody uses ’em properly. A few troll-de-rolls think they are being clever. I’ve been resting up today so have spent more time on the internet than I intended.

        Quote  Reply

    256. Tormund’s Woman,

      It’s happened to me quite a bit. After a certain time it seems to claim to have posted but not come up and then when you try to post it again it says you’ve double posted? I tend to cut what I’ve written, refresh and then paste and post now as it’s pretty annoying when you’ve typed a fair bit…which I tend to do!

      mau,

      You’re seriously going to drag this out over two different threads?! Get over it, eh?

        Quote  Reply

    257. Dame of Mercia,

      Hah! mine was on the same off topic as yours. And naughty is fun some times. Plus our off topic doesn’t hurt anyone. It’s a literature discussion.

      HOWEVER, I think in retrospect it is karma that it got lost. There aren’t many subjects that can get me to lose my cool. In fact I can’t think of more than two. Austen unfair criticism can! So it’s all good, and thus the impudent Bronte lover / Austen basher can sleep well for now. It will be for another time!

      TheTouchOfFrost,

      I will try to remember but I did hit back (after the timed out screen appeared) and send it again. Still got lost apparently.

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    258. TheTouchOfFrost,

      I was firmly in the “no Bean for younger Ned” camp…until yesterday. I thought about what others were saying, let go of how old he is at the ToJ in the books, but instead thought of him around 20 years younger than he was in season 1, looked at some recent pictures of him (short hair, clean shaven, and smiling), and I’ll be damned if I didn’t decide it could work. That’s not to say you’ll change your mind as I did. I’m just saying I couldn’t see it, and now I do.

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    259. TheTouchOfFrost,

      But it isn’t nostalgia, but necessity. His character wasn’t edited out, like LSH. If that castle really is the Tower of Joy, then, again unlike LSH, Ned has to return, and return as an adult. Bean is iconic as Ned. He’s already said that he’d be happy to return if needed. Why on earth wouldn’t they use him?

        Quote  Reply

    260. tyjon,

      The links aren’t working for me, but have googled her – wow, she grew up to be a beautiful young woman!

      Addit: I see you’ve fixed the link – thank you!

      Nymeria Warrior Queen,
      TheTouchOfFrost,

      Yep, he looks really good here – I think he may have cut back on the booze!

      http://variety.com/2014/tv/news/sean-beans-legends-renewed-for-season-2-1201371103/

      On another note, I have a totally random idea that I’m sure book readers will hate:

      what if they used Benjen as well? It’d be another familiar face with whom the audience will connect. Yes, it would mean that Benjen would know about Jon, and that may not sit well with some people. But he’s presumably dead now (or undead), so he’d have taken the secret with him.

      Still think Howland Reed will make an appearance though. Agree someone living must be around to confirm the Targ claim.

        Quote  Reply

    261. The TV show did add 3-4 years of age to most characters, mainly the younger ones under 20. Book Grey Worm is upper 20’s and book Missandai is 9 or 10.

      Book Eddard was born in 263, the battle at the Trident was 283 (he was 20 years old) and he died in 298 at 35.

      Lyanna was 16 at the time of her death in 283. Age them up to 19 Lyanna, 23 for Ned. Any more than that is very out of character for this Planetos world.

      I don’t think making Lyanna a 30 something, unwed Arya-type would work, and to cut her form the scene would be sacrilege because it is because of her that most of the entire story is put in to motion- fromthe fall of the Targaryens, to the rise of Baratheons, to the ultimate “world savior” and most secondary stories in-between.

      Sean Bean can act as himself if aged down properly. As good as he looks for his age, shaven or not, it is gonna take some facial fillers and Vaseline on the lens to get it right 🙂

      You have to show the Kings Guard because it a shows, very clearly, that there is something of “royal” value being kept inside. This can be done quickly within a few lines and sword swings so you get the idea, then cut-to inside with Lyanna.

        Quote  Reply

    262. iridium,

      I think Benjen DOES know, in all likelihood…”We’ll talk when I get back…” He may be the only one who does. Not a bad idea, iridium, although I don’t know how they’d work it in. Possible!

        Quote  Reply

    263. TheTouchOfFrost,

      wow wow wow, this guys you said made snape tenager and kid, Not even an adult. Alan rickman looked for all the years a 35-40 guy. only with make up, When they used CGI on him at The final movie He look Like a 20-25 men and the actor had 65 years.

      And also Ned dont ned to look 20 years, i dont know if you realized, but the caracthers on the Got series are all Much older than the Book caracters. all of then. Ned need to looks a 30-35.

      and they can do that for sure.

      We need sean bean, like other movies like hobbit did gandalf and Saruman with the same actors, even the hobbit being before TLOTR.

      and for us is only a flash back, They can do this.

        Quote  Reply

    264. When it comes to age discrepancies, I always think of the Clegane bros, although I know they’re an anomaly. Gregor was 35 (Hapthor is 26) and the older brother to Sandor, 30 (Rory is 46). They still keep with the theory that Gregor is older, we just ignore it. Hapthor is as close to Gregor as they’d ever hope to find.

        Quote  Reply

    265. iridium,

      It makes more sense than a heck of a lot of them! Guaranteed someone here will outline in detail how it would be ‘bad storytelling’ or something, but thbbbt to them. 😉

        Quote  Reply

    266. mau,

      Funny how that’s the same thing I tried to politely point out about you…first. Anyway, I tire of your persnicketyness. Try talking about the subject instead of making snide little personal jabs.

      Tormund’s Woman,

      The gremlins do seem to be enjoying their summer holidays on the WotW site!

      Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Just doesn’t work for me. If Jon was 15ish in the books it still would have been a push but he looks at the least mid 20s in the show. This is the oppurtunity for a young actor to make a name for themselves rather than spend money on CGI to wedge Sean Bean in there.

      Maria,

      Because they’re using him for the sake of using him! I’d rather the character be more accurate age-wise than altered to get a name in there. I imagine Mr BEan’s services won’t be cheap either.

      iridium,

      Not arguing he doesn’t look good for his age but he doesn’t look in his 20s!

      Igor Thadeu,

      The show doesn’t NEED Sean Bean at all. It’s been doing pretty well the past 4 seasons without him! Sean BEan is not the be all and end all of the show. If you can suspend disbelief in the age then good for you but it shows poor consistency for me.

        Quote  Reply

    267. Pigeon,

      Ha, no doubt. My predictions haven’t come true so far anyway: I totally thought Val and YG would be in the show. Happy about the YG cut (found him boring as shit and totally unworthy of his supposed claim to the throne; Jon C basically did all the work for him) but Val I liked in the books. Didn’t end up missing her at all in the show though, so it was a good decision imo!

      TheTouchOfFrost,

      Agree he couldn’t pull off a 20 year old (uh, I really should rephrase that) but how about mid-30s? That’s what he’d be in the show timeline going by his and Mark Addy’s appearances.

        Quote  Reply

    268. i.m pretty sure they will ask for sean B come back.

      they only need :

      -a hair more live, more blond, like at Boromir
      -A different beard, shorter
      -heavy makeup to cover wrinkles and make skin smooth all over face
      -a younger costumes
      -and interpretation by sean of a more insecure ned, more full of emotions , not one ned already closed so as we have seen ever.

      done.

      *And if they want they can put points in his face and made a Cgi with make up, to look More perfect.

      #SEANBEANARECOMING

        Quote  Reply

    269. Sue the Fury,

      Thank you for taking the trouble, Sue. I did click back on the browser and clicked “post comment” again. I just never saw the first post coming up in the thread to begin with. I’ll just wait a while next time if it doesn’t show up.

      TheTouchOfFrost,

      Lol!!! No. Mr. Sprite is no gremlin! I get the feeling he just dismisses so vocally Austen’s works to make sure I’m on my toes (definitely bores him, and I’ve got nothing to do with that).

      It’s only fair though. I think Dance with Dragons is a really good book and I say it every opportunity I get when I visit other websites where he’s a regular.

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    270. iridium,

      There are some floating around where he looks better than that.
      I don’t know what he’s doing to stay looking much younger than his years, but when I was looking through pictures of him, I noticed he’s engaged to a 29 year-old. That could be part of it. hahaha.

      TheTouchOfFrost,

      Well, I knew, if it’s even possible, you were more stubborn than I. 😉

      btw – I hope you enjoyed your camping trip!

        Quote  Reply

    271. People do not need to know who Dayne is or the other KG, or even Lyanna for that.
      they need to know that Ned gets out of the tower with a baby, that is not his own.

      And we don’t need to learn more about Jon? he is one of the key mistery of the show, of course we need to know who he really is. Hell you don’t even have to know who Raeghar was, just that Jon is a Targaryn.

      Another mistake you make, is when you say they did not mention the KG/Lyanna/Raeghar, they did a bit last season, but they NEVER mention inportant events an entire season before.
      So you can be certain that there will be more talk about them.

      i see no problem in fighting Dayne 1v1, if they do it. people on the show, unlike the books do not care about tertiary characters. they care about the primary characters.
      so you don’t need to know the KG, hell they could use some rondom stuntmen with no line, and the scene would still do it.
      the only person in that scene that matters is Ned. not Dayne who dies, not Hightower, not Whent.

      and about, Sean Bean not fitting, that is your opinion, same with Cersei’s flashback, wich i tought was very well executed, even tough i had some feers before hand that it would look cheesy. i may have expressed myself a bit to hasty, i don’t want Sean Bean just…because. I want him because i think he could easly play a man in his late 20s, eary 30s. I want him becaue he IS Ned, i don’t need some random actor.

      and when you said why does Bean not play the 12 year old aswell, that is just childish.
      realy grasping to find an argument.

      i trully think you’re just angry that they will do the scene and change it slintly, compared with your holy books.

        Quote  Reply

    272. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Some think Sean Bean is a good idea, and some think it is not. If a lot of people think something is good or bad, then it means a lot of people think it is good or bad. It doesn’t mean it is, in fact, good or bad. You should not present your opinion as a fact.

      Not having a go, but I think D&D know a lot more about the show-making then yourself. Their success suggests a lot of people agree that they at the very least know how to tell their stories to the audience they have. Seems counterproductive to spend so much time with someone you dislike

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    273. iridium,

      Well, he pulled off a 40 year old earlier in the series! It would be doable but again I think it’d look a bit ropey. When it began, Ned was meant to be 40 in the show and and Jon 17 (although I think both looked older). So if we use Jon’s age as a guide to how old Ned would be at the time of the ToJ it’d be 23 which even the relatively fresh-faced Mr Bean would struggle to do.

      Tormund’s Woman,

      Ah, I was talking about the gremlins who are messing with everyone’s posts. Although I can see why you might get confused! 😛

      Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Yeah, was great, thanks. Got to see most of Whitby, Robin Hood Bay and go on a fishing trip at sea. Was quite misty on the last morning which made visiting Whitby Abbey and the church nearby a lot more atmospheric! Can see why Bram Stoker was inspired to make it the landing place in England for Dracula! I recommend it to anyone who happens to be in North Yorkshire or England in general!

      Mihnea,

      I assume that was directed at me?
      You’re argument is a little confusing. If we don’t need to know who Lyanna,Rhaegar or the KG are then why do we need to bother with the scene at all? Just have someone come up to Jon and tell him he’s a Targ!
      Didn’t say they didn’t mention it. I said that the average viewer will still have no idea who these people are and will have forgotten the names. I’m all for extra detail but if it’s going to take a ton of explaining ( which I think this will) then it bogs down the main story.
      If it’s just two random people fighting you want then shove in a random scene somewhere else. The build and backstory of the ToJ is what makes it great. Having it as an excuse for an action scene before some exposition is a little cheap for me and devalues it.
      It is my opinion but you must admit trying to get a guy in his mid 50s to play someone in their early 20s is a stretch at least!
      Why are you afraid of another actor taking the role? They might…just might be able to portray Ned at that age much better than Sean Bean can. I was exaggerating to make a point. They are trying to show a different time in history. If Ned looking similar to the Ned in the show rocks up most of the casual audience are going to get confused and wonder why he’s alive again!
      Ahhh was wondering how long it would be before I got the ‘Book Puritan’ label. Honestly thought it would be Mau who used it first though! I don’t think it would work for the show. A lot o their changes have worked very well but I don’t think this one will much as I didn’t think (although I did hope) the Sand Snakes would work. But hey, if it makes it simpler for you to process your thoughts to shove me in the ‘Book Wanker ‘ category then go right ahead.

      mau,

      I can tell when I told you that that it must have really stung as you’re obviously not able to let it go. If you really think quoting back conversations (mainly counterpoints to your rather narrow viewpoints) I’ve had with you is a valid argument then you knock yourself out.
      I will take my own advice ( which you have decided to paraphrase ) and not waste any more time replying to you as, to be quite honest, you’re just not very pleasant to talk to. Good day, sir.

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    274. mau,

      Correct. the tought of using another guy, when Bean could easly play someone in his late 20s-early 30s, is honestly quite funny.
      Ned would be dirty, tired from the war…looking 10 years older.

      but honestly they should not even bother with age. the should just make him a bit younger, so the audience can easly realise, its a flashback.

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    275. Mihnea,

      I honestly can’t see a point in discussing it. It just like discussing is Lena H. a good choice for Cersei after 5 seasons.

      Bean will play Ned in S6. It is so obvious, by his own statements in the past.

      I completely understand why some would like to see a really young man, but I personally don’t care for the character’s age. I would never recast Bran or Rickon because they are older that they “should” be.

      I just think that is disrespectful to all people here to reduce their arguments to “using Bean for the sake of using him”, because there are really strong artistic and storytelling reasons to bring him back.

      You can disagree, but you can’t reduce us to some Bean’s fanboys.

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