After recently being announced as a director for the upcoming season of Game of Thrones, director Jack Bender (Lost, The Sopranos) confirmed he read an advanced copy of The Winds of Winter in his recent AMA (ask me anything) on Reddit.
UPDATE: A very reliable WotW source has confirmed to us that Bender hasn’t seen an advanced copy/draft of The Winds of Winter, and must have confused it with the season 6 outline when answering the question.
Having directed a whopping 38 episodes of Lost, naturally that came up quite a bit, but Bender also took the time to answer questions relating to the upcoming season 6.
When asked if there was ANYTHING (emphasis on the caps) that he could tell us about season 6 he said:
Yes. OH! There’s a helicopter! I just said everything, you just couldn’t hear it!
Bender also confirms he was asked earlier to direct for Game of Thrones but due to scheduling conflicts, he couldn’t until the upcoming season:
Someone asked why I decided to direct Game of Thrones this season: Yes, I was approached to work on a prior season early on, and unfortunately I couldn’t because of my schedule and other commitments – because you have to commit a REALLY Long period of time to do two episodes. And it seemed like this was the right time. It was definitely something I was flattered to be asked again, and I’m very excited to do.
So maybe it’s too hopeful to expect any specific details about next season. However, the news of the advanced draft is extremely exciting as it hints the book might be almost if not completely finished and is in its editing phases. If that’s the case, George R.R. Martin may in fact be true to his word that The Winds of Winter could be published before season 6 airs.
What do you think of the news of an advanced draft? What are your thoughts on Bender directing the new season?
He certainly seems enthusiastic and having seen his work in Lost, The Sopranos, and even the cult classic Child’s Play 3, I’m excited to see what he brings to Game of Thrones next season. – Nate
Wait – so I am confused. He actually said he read a draft of the book?! Not the Season 6 script? Wow – George is being awfully free with his material.
Oh Hodor (is back)
From what I have heard the TWOW draft with roughly 800 pages done so far is a disaster according to everyone but Linda and Elio. GRRM has lost the plot and his editors are totally freaking out. He is not in the mood for a rewrite and the stuff is really bad.
The actual book or the released chapters? Not sure why this particular director would get an advanced copy of the book. I don’t even think D&D have a copy of the book, do they?
So did he read some chapters or an actual finished version of the book? Maybe there’s a chance that we’ll get it before next season after all.
RosanaZugey,
If Jack Bender has it, then D&D have had it for quite a while, most likely.
Maceless Fan,
He seemed pretty clear it was an advance copy as the question phrased it that way. Who knows how many chapters though.
I saw this comment in the AMA and was shocked. Couldn’t understand why others weren’t reacting. To confirm, he was asked if he read an advance copy of “Book 6” and he said yes. If this is true, then it would indicate that TWOW may be further along that I imagined.
Do the other directors have it too? Wtf? Why this director? He’s not even directing the penultima episodes. I think there’s some miscommunication in that question/answer. Perhaps he thought the question was referring to the scripts for S6.
Anywho, if the book is close to being finish…cool. *Thumbs up* The only thing I dread is book readers getting the chance to spoil everything for everyone. 🙁 I kind of prefer it this way; where no one knows anything.
richardhorpe,
That’s what I meant. I’m curious about the amount of actual finished book lol.
Why are directors being given drafts of TWOW? Shouldn’t they only be concerned with the script?
The show is its own thing now anyway, I’d rather see D & D swing for the fences than try to pretend this is still a faithful adaptation of ASOIF.
mariamb,
That’s how I took it too at first but it may just be a draft. He is directing episodes 5 and 6 next season so it may be pretty far along in the book but we don’t know for sure.
He was pretty vague about season 6, no doubt they’re keeping everything under wraps, so we wait for more news!
RosanaZugey,
I would probably assume that all of the directors have a copy. And it sucks that people can’t not spoil shit for others. Luckily for show watchers, though, is that the show is most likely gonna finish this story before the books do. As a book reader, I’d prefer that that didn’t happen but it is what it is haha.
Nate,
Yeah the info is just enough to torment and taunt, but not enough to really know. He’s had some of those chapters written forever so it may not be as far as along as we’d hope. Seriously, do the other directors have the same treatment and he just answered because he was asked?
I think he may have misread the comment or assumed the questioned was about season 6 scripts. I think he meant he has read the scripts for season 6 but not book 6. There is no reason for him to be reading the TWOW in order to direct the show. The show is only loosely based on the book story now anyway.
JamesL,
Hopefully he’ll get asked at some point to clarify.
Nate,
It was a bold question and I was surprised that he answered as he did. He may have seen a draft. Or maybe he thought that the question referred to “Script 6” rather than “Book 6.” I’d rather be positive and think that TWOW is close.
A Lurker,
Where did you hear any of this? Can you provide some quotes or links? Because I haven’t heard or found anything remotely close to what you’re saying.
A Lurker,
lol. Nice troll attempt. Linda and Elio said they haven’t even read past that Sansa chapter, so, try again another time.
He’s just a troll hoping to get attention. Don’t bother.
JamesL,
I think that the rest of the TV show will be hugely based on the next two books, regardless if the books are released or not. Martin would never leave D&D in the dark about that kind of stuff. Whatever changes they make in the show, I’m sure that it’s more about what they feel is best for the adaptation and less about not knowing what’s going to happen.
Ghost,
He’s a lurker. There will be no evidence, let alone a response.
JamesL,
I completely agree with this. It doesn’t make sense for any of the directors to be given copies of the books. They’re not directing the books; they’re directing the scripts for the specific episodes they’ve been assigned. There are huge differences in the books that would just confuse a new director coming on board.
Don’t get me wrong, I hope Winds is far enough along to have a relatively complete draft; that would be great! But I think there was some miscommunication here.
This is ridiculous and deliberately misleading:
1) Wind of Winter has far from being finished, GRRM recently just announced he would take a six months break for the book 6, but he “would do his best” to finish this book in 2016, that means “wind of winter” will not be available before the last season (season 7) of Game of thrones air, so at best he just read a few unpublished and unfinished chapters, there is no way in hell he can read a “advanced draft” of “wind of winter”
2) after the big screw up in the season, what “wind of winter” makes any difference? The TV show is going to a completely different direction
A Lurker,
Where did you hear this?
A Lurker,
Nice troll attempt, maybe you can actually trick a child for a couple of seconds or some achievement on the same level
That’s certainly a possibility, but he very carefully read and replied to the other comments that were given in the session in great detail. And the phrasing of the question made it very obvious that the questioner was speaking of an advanced copy of the book.
Truly, I think it’s a miscommunication on both ends. Why would someone ask a director for Season 6 if he’s read Book 6 (and since when do book readers refer to TWOW as “Book 6” for that matter) when–as you and others have noted–a director for the series doesn’t have to read the books to direct the show?
Quite frankly, its probably a better idea that they DON’T read the book seeing as how the show is missing a truck load of the characters who are in that book and a lot of other storylines are completely different (i.e. Sansa in Winterfell, Jamie in Dorne, etc). Nah. I’m going to go with misunderstanding/miscommunication on this one.
I agree with those who say this is about the script(s). Why would he get any kind of advanced manuscript for the book? 99% chance this was just a misheard/misunderstood question.
I smell dishonesty, and I detest dishonesty
marsyao,
Do you have a link where GRRM recently announced that the book wouldn’t be ready before 2016 and that he was taking this six month break?
What big screw up in the season?
Alex Graves was told a bunch about the endgame of the show/books before he began with s4, so I imagine it’s more-or-less common practise for them to show the directors what’s coming. Also I remember in 2014 when the Mercy chapter was released Bryan Cogman tweeted that he had seen it a year or two prior to that, so D and D and Cogman certainly have had access to non-published TWOW chapters. So it’s likely that Bender meant he’d seen their notes about what happens in TWOW or maybe even some other non-published TWOW chapters.
If GrrM’s recent statements on his Notablog are any indication though, he’s not really all-too near finishing.
Simeon,
But how do you misunderstand this question?
There are no advanced copies of scripts because scripts aren’t released to the public. There are no books of scripts. I’m fairly certain that a director knows the difference between a book and a script. The care he took to answer the other questions in detail tells me that he took at least the minimum amount of time to understand what the person was asking. Read the rest and judge for yourself.
lol. I think the only good thing that will come out of the TWOW being released before S6 is that I think we’ll be able to understand why they made a lot of the changes they did. For example, if Barristan dies in his first chapter of TWOW, then killing him when they did won’t seem like such a big deal. I don’t know, but I kind of get the feeling D&D will be vindicated in a lot of things they’ve done once we’ve read what they’ve read and know what they know.
Greenjones,
Thanks! That’s great information and would indicate that he “could” have read something related to TWOW.
Everything
???
Exactly. Even if a published book exists, a director would be far, far more concerned with the script, and wouldn’t want anything else to influence him or bias him. I am certain he meant he’s seen the rough 6.05 and 6.06 scripts, and perhaps not yet the polished ones, because the writers may still be working on them.
Ginevra,
I haven’t seen anywhere that George said he was taking a 6 month break. The last comments I saw him make on TWoW was that he’s clearing his schedule of a lot of stuff and skipping cons so he can focus on it.
Ghost,
I haven’t, either. I asked for a link to see if there was a valid source to confirm. Considering that no link was given but only an overly dramatic reaction to Season 5, I think it is safe to assume that the six month hiatus is make believe.
Ginevra,
Well, there is literally no Book 6 of “Game of Thrones”, since that is the title of Book 1 only… and the “to prepare for directing next season’s episodes” certainly seems to point the question in the direction of a script, which would actually be necessary to prepare for directing, whereas the book would just be a huge distraction.
Considering that an earlier article said:
…and it’s likely that this outline for the season is the “advance copy.” YMMV.
Ginevra,
So, does that mean you smell dishonesty? 😉
I do, I do. And I detest dishonesty.
RosanaZugey,
I think that a lot of people will feel like D&D was justified with their decisions moving forward but a lot of people will still disagree with them until the end. This kind of series (book and show) was destined to polarize its fan base since the beginning lol.
Simeon,
Bender’s answers to all other questions were, in number of words long, 54, 165, 256, 158, 65, 131, 16, 45, 5 (crunchy or creamy?), 115, 77, 100, 58, 243, 33, 64, 56, 118, 19, 229, 31, 168, 38, 163, 91, 191, 149, 399, 58, 52, 168, 61, 304, 83, 121, 83, and 158.
He answered this question with just one word. One! It is difficult for me to fathom that was anything but deliberate design in knowing that even this one word was saying too much. If he thought they were talking about the scripts, he would have gone into great detail to clarify, just like he provided extensive detail in answering every other blooming question he was asked tonight! If he thought the questioner was asking about the outline, again, he would have given the same detail he’d given in answering before – or at the very least referred to his previous answer. But this is the only question where he gave anything close to this short of an answer. Even favorite ice cream and crunchy or creamy questions got more words than they deserved.
Of course, I could be wrong. Perhaps I am giving Bender too much credit for being able to interpret what the question clearly intended.
I really hope the book is somewhere near finished. It would be great to get it a week or two before the season starts.
Al Swearengen,
Doesn’t your definition of “faithful adaptation” pretty much preclude “adaptation?”
I agree that Jack likely meant he read the scripts for Season 6, not a draft of TWOW.
I doubt that TWOW will be published in time for Season 6, and sometimes doubt the books will be finished at all.
WeirwoodTreeHugger,
Even if was only a week before season 6 started I would finish that book in a few days haha.
Ginevra,
What exactly does dishonesty smell like? Ps…I’m pretty certain that there are at least a couple trolls lurking….beware. .taking a 6 month hiatus my ass
True. lol. And if its not the actual show/books that polarize this fandom, its the theories that do. 😉 You know how much grief I’ve gotten for thinking Sansa and Tyrion are actually going to end up together (which, for the record, I still think will happen in both book and show :p)? We’re all passionate about this world and about these characters. Its the reason we endlessly debate every word, change, idea, setting, storyline, person, etc. It’s going to be sad when its all over. 🙁 Then again…I suppose even when its all over, we’ll all still have a million different opinions about every little thing, so I guess I can comfort myself with the reality that at least the conversations will keep going strong. 😉
As a side…and because I’d genuinely like to know…what do you think has been the most polarizing thing between books/show and within the books themselves? Like, in your opinion, what has been the most divisive aspects of this series?
-Tennessee Williams from Cat on a Hot Tin Roof
So….why don’t some people want to read the books? Not being snarky – I am genuinely curious.
Maybe he means hes read a summary of what occurs in TWOW.
RosanaZugey,
That’s a good way to stay positive lol. And to answer your question as best as possible, I feel like the most polarizing thing within the books is A Feast For Crows as a whole. With so many new characters introduced and several established characters missing, it’s hardly surprising. A lot of people hate that book but some people (myself included) really like it. Septon Meribald’s broken man speech was a definite highlight, and I loved how the book focuses on the horrible aftermath of war and some of its unforeseen consequences (like the rise of the sparrows).
When it comes to polarizing things between the book and show, there are just way to many things to name. Acting, writing, camera work, choreography, characters kept vs. characters cut, new characters, and overall book changes. These arguments will continue until the end of the show, even after we don’t have anymore book material to compare it to lol.
While exciting, this isn’t shocking. We know GRRM has written SOME portion of the book. In fact, it’s likely he’s written a huge ton of pages – no guarantees on what percent that is, or even how good it is.
But they have always maintained that D & D know exactly what’s happening, GRRM has shared everything he’s thinking so far, and that they’re read and know the way forward. So it’s not a huge shock that the directors will get access. After all, these directors are tasked with capturing the feel of epic books with condensed scripts, and the GOT directors are all top notch: capable, discreet, and have worked on the most anticipated shows out there. They are all to be trusted with “spoilers.”
I don’t actually think this means that the book is close to ready.
Well, that seems reasonable!
He almost certainly meant the scripts. I know David Nutter has said he hasn’t read the books, so it obviously is not a requirement to direct.
I mean, it’s nice to feel optimistic and everything, and don’t stop believing on my account. I myself find it highly improbable that Winds of Winter will beat S6 out the door, based on almost 19 years of waiting for books in this series to come out.
History has taught us that you should basically imagine the worst case scenario of how long the book will take to come out, and then prepare yourself for it to take longer than that.
I’m pretty cynical about the whole deal at this time, so I’m going to go with the idea that Mr. Bender was just being coy. Mr. Martin still has Cons to attend, still has to finish editing other books, has a tv deal and movie deal in the works…
Just because Mr. Martin cancelled two Cons and a few interviews does not mean he is ‘plugging away’ at *just* Winds; *and* those darned puppies nipping away at his heels, amongst other things. If he manages to finish by Xmas, I wouldn’t be shocked that he did so by ‘splitting the narrative’ once again, as he did with Dance.
I did try to do a re-read of the books this past month, and gave up after the first book. The excitement I had in 2011 has almost completely evaporated, especially since I know that the show will be done in two years.
Bender has twitter btw. So if folks haven’t already tried to press him for the exact meaning of his AMA answer, there is a venue to do so in.
This!
Why do people care so much what he may or may not have read? Says he read the book draft so lets assume it’s that. Makes no difference to us!
Fiery Heart,
It makes a lot of difference when trying to gauge how far along TWoW is, and whether or not GRRM will be able deliver on his promise and get it out before Season 6. It means a lot to some people, especially those who don’t want a book they’ve been waiting 5 years for to be spoiled.
I’m hesitant to classify GRRM’s desire as a “promise.” I think it’s crucial such things aren’t labeled (in my mind) erroneously in fandoms.
Jeff O’Connor,
Error on my part, sorry.
Quinton,
Oh, no problem at all!
He read the draft of the season 6 script, not the book draft.
Why on earth would a newcomer director of only 2 episodes get to see the book draft?
How could he read something that doesn’t exist? GRRM wrote nothing since 2011 besides the ADWD leftover chapters. All the available evidence points to that. This book isn’t coming out anytime soon.
He meant Season 6 scripts that do exist in drafts by this point.
It isn’t shocking that the unpublished works of GRRM are floating around for the show to work with. Even if GRRM is only partially done with the book, at least they can use that as a basis for the television show.
Either jealousy…. Or just impatient. When you take 5 years between books, it creates a certain level of anticipation…
Dishonesty starts off smelling like marzipan: sweet and oh so delicious. But after you’ve already got him in your mouth and have begun to swallow, you discover the razor blades.
Wait. Is it that dishonesty starts of smelling like marzipan? Or spelling like marzipan?
Denial, on the other hand, smells like a person who believes that Bender can read “advance copy of Book 6” as either “scripts for Season 6” or “outline for Season 6.”
Rest assured, no advance copies of TWOW will be leaked. HBO runs a tight ship.
We can rest assured no doubt that George is really busy writing…..”The GRRMarillion Part 2″
Why would you not believe it is getting close to being finished? It’s been four years since ADWD, and it would be months from the time GRRM turns it over before it is published. At this point, we should be expecting that he has 60%+ written and the rest plotted out at the page level. That’s why found it odd that people were thinking that when he came up with a new idea for a character death in Hamburg, people started discussing TWOW. I doubt that is correct. That death will be in ADOS. TWOW at that level is already locked up, I would guess.
RosanaZugey,
Ah, but that is a difference among book fans. I am Not a fan of GRRM’s “world.” I do not hate, either: I simply do not care about it. I am very intrigued by the lead characters. I am very intrigued by some of the “mysteries” around these characters, and anticipating how those characters are evolving or how they will deal with resolutions to the mysteries. And, of course, I am a sucker for these types of stories whether they are set in the “real” world or a fake one.
The reason why many fans do not care about the changes in the adaptation is that these sorts of fans do not mind altering trivial details just as long as we get the same stories and the same sort of character arcs in the primary characters.
Ginevra,
Hey, when in doubt, change the facts!
Casting for extras in Girona is next week! 🙂
https://twitter.com/ModexporCasting/status/614736014096121856
This is really good news guys you don’t have to be wankers about it stop with the the “you know best” attitude
TWOW could be soon!!
This.
I totally also interpreted this as him replying casually to a loosely understood question, not a world-shocker. Was he thinking season 6 show scripts? Was he just having fun with the readers knowing he HAD to follow-up denying any further tidbit of info?
Sorry, but I am not getting my hopes up for this. If previous directors got by without reading the published books, why would they get an unpublished partial manuscript? D & D will share their view of the necessary info on things to come on a need-to-know basis. Blogs and D&D are the only ones with an advanced perspective, and even then the fandom disagrees on their understanding of some characters’ motivations and roles. Don’t fret.
Jack Bender is very fond of “Ray Donovan”? I like this man, I really like this man.
JB may have just been talking about an outline/synopsis that GRRM gave D&D for TWoW, not an actual manuscript draft of the book itself.
I think there is almost an anti-books sentiment among some and they would rather the creative people working on the show not be exposed to any more book material. At least that’s the vibe I get from some of the comments.
And how do you know this?
Im realy afraid that winds of winter won’t be good as the previous books, but i hope for the greatest book ever..
So how do you know the draft is 800 pages? What are your sources?
OtherAndrew,
Not true. They have read more confirmed in their episode 10 review where they talked about further Cersei chapters. They also edit and fact check George’s work to stop contradictions since the world is so big it is easy to misremember details of exactly how he described them
Does anybody think GRRM will finish the series by 2020? He turns 72 that year.
I heard from a very reliable source- Bender hasn’t read an advanced copy of TWOW, he must’ve confused it with the season 6 outline when answering the question. Updated the post.
There will be no TWOW before S6 or S7.
Funny thing is that some people actually belived GRRM was anywhere near finished.
Hamburg convention last week ….
NFL season is gonna start soon ….
Sue the Fury,
And I actually had hope that this book would come out before next season. This series should never have been adapted until the books were finished. GRRM and D&D are all to blame for that.
No.
D&D are doing their job. They are serious and committed.
GRRM on the other hand….
Pretty silly mistake to make. The people in charge really need to tighten the reins on folks as the leaks and rather daft comments coming out from some folks is compromising the show IMO.
I agree. There is no evidence that he wrote anything since 2011.
mau,
D&D are doing their job writing a TV show.
GRRM is doing his job writing a book.
Why must everything turn into this book vs. show crap? Seriously, get over it.
A Lurker,
Who else would have possibly read it?
I don’t think so.
About George taking a six months break from TWOW – he did mention taking that break right after finishing ADWD, rather than plowing on ahead with TWOW, and also regretting taking that break later.
Couldn’t find anything about him wanting to take a break now. And honestly, what with him still having several other projects on his plate, it seems like TWOW will be slow enough in coming as is, so I sincerely hope he just continues working on it week by week until finished.
We have to assume he really wants to finish it before season 6, so when he still takes on other projects, it might mean he feels pretty confident he’ll pull it off in time regardless??
mau,
Why? Because he isn’t releasing it when you want it? Stop throwing your toys out of the pram and enjoy reading something else or watching the show until it’s done. Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Damn, yeah, didnt know about when the season starts, but if it’s soon, that maaaaaay be bad news for a release before season 6 ! ^^
mau,
D&D are to share the blame because they started creating a TV show based on an incomplete book series. Maybe they thought that George would’ve caught up when the show got to this point but they were wrong. But I’ll somewhat agree with you in that George should take the lion’s share of the blame on this. And btw, this isn’t an attack on the show in general. I’m just saying that all these issues with the story being finished through the show first could’ve been avoided if the people involved had just waited until the books were completed.
Yet you don’t seem to be bothered by the fact that S5 involved major changes to the character arcs of Sansa, Jaime, Brienne, and Stannis, all of whom are among the top dozen characters in the series and one of whom by your own admission is one of the very few people you consider a “protagonist”. These people were all in different places doing differing things for different reasons and to different ends than their book counterparts, and any relation between how they developed and how they did (or plausibly could in early TWOW) is barely better than random. It’s not just the “trivial details” that are off, it is just about everything
GRRM is 66 years old. He does not have nor need a job.
This is unrelated but I came across this review of ADWD on goodreads a while back and I think it’s hysterical. Definitely worth checking out if you have a few minutes free hahaha.
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/239667438
And is that supposed to be an excuse?
Also, heh. I think many got their hopes up only to get them shot down thereafter. Come on guys, we know how the author rolls.
Maceless Fan,
That is brilliant!
Simeon,
I figured someone would like it lol.
That might actually fire him up. He’s already got his digs in at the Cowboys and the Eagles in previous books. Maybe this book he goes after the Redskins. If Mel’s skin actually turns red, look for it to be a very bad sign for her future. 🙂
Reading through this thread: Jack, magnificent trolling ! Keep up them good work !
1. Stop telling other people what they should think or do.
2. Why? Because it is obvious. I don’t blame him. I don’t want anything from him, he can do whatever he wants, I am just stating the obvious
marsyao,
Everything?
Just promise yourself you won’t watch next season or season(s) after that promise that you will put an end to this suffering because as i said before this sounds like PURE MASOCHISM and you really don’t need to keep subjecting yourself to the pain of watching these two ruining the books that you truly love.
Yikes, I see the bookwank thought police is having a busy morning again, pestering divergent users.
And they will finish that TV show. They are not responsible for the books.
Maceless Fan,
Haha I love it. That guy should help GRRM finish winds of winter, he got the style down, even the annoying nuncle.
mau,
I know that they’re not responsible for the books. However, they’re going to finish a story that should be finished in book form first but won’t. Can you really not see why that would be frustrating to those of us who read the books? D&D and GRRM turned this situation into what it is, together. And though they’re going to finish the show how and when they want (as they should), you can’t be ignorant or naive enough to ignore the fact that it creates problems with how the story is presented in general. I’m not trying to turn this into book readers vs show watchers because it isn’t necessary. Both sides should be respecting the other side’s perspective but sadly it doesn’t happen as much as it should.
Nobody twisted Mr. Martin´s arm to sell out to HBO all these years ago. Mr. Martin is entitled to finish his books at his leisure. HBO is entitled to finish the show at its own leisure. Book fetishists, live with it: HBO is not your bitch !
Hahaha I know, right? I loved the constant procrastinating and excuses he made as to why he couldn’t finish the review. I’ve never read a review for anything as many times as I read that lol.
Again, take it to Martin. Selling out is his fault.
Quinton,
Well those who want to stay unspoiled can easily skip the next season and any GOT related websites until the book is published
So why are people bitching that D&D will finish first ?
Well, as a book reader myself, that’s too bad for you folks. If you need to blame someone, that’d be the author, for selling the rights and doing lots of stuff instead of writing, but then again I remember how people gets pissed and starts the “Not your bitch” mantra when someone points that out.
Now the chickens are coming home to roost, the show will end before the books…if (and that’s a big if) the books are ever finished, that is. Either live with it or…not much else you can do, really.
flintwielder,
As I said before, George is more to blame than D&D for the situation being what it is. I honestly believe that when they starting courting George to make this show, they figured that when they got to season 5 or 6 that the books would’ve been finished.
Morgoth,
I understand what you’re saying and I agree. When the dust settles, D&D and will walk away from all of this more unscathed than George because they’ll be delivering the ending that George should. George jumped the gun by agreeing to this adaptation before the books were completed and D&D exploited the situation.
Well said, Wimsey! I love almost everything about the GoT adaptation because, IMO, they’ve stayed quite true to the characters (yes, even Stannis #overgasp) and to the overall arc of the story even though they’ve significantly altered many of the minor storylines. And because the story they are telling, for the most part, is still freaking awesome.
On the other hand, the Harry Potter adaptations could never hold a candle to the books for me because they destroyed my favorite and primary character, Hermione. She was an awkward, bushy-haired, walrus-teethed, all-too-eager nerd girl in the books, whereas in the movies she became a supermodel, glamour girl, uber confident, superhero girl in the movies.
I know, right? As I said all along, of course Bender just meant an outline of the TV show!
Did my nose grow? The better to smell you with, my dear. #cannotadmitwhenimwrong #thebettertosmellmyowndishonesty
And what they should do now? Cancel the most popular show in the world for the man who probably won’t finish books anyway?
You blame them for what? For not knowing that GRRM is not interested in finishing his books?
No one knew that in 2007.
He had 10 years. And he failed.
mau,
When did I ever say that the show should be cancelled? Calm down. All I was really doing was griping about the situation as a whole and analyzing the ways that George and D&D contributed to it. Again, I love the books and the show. I just wish that the story was finished in book form first, even though I know that that’s not happening. Have you read the books?
GRRM owes nothing to nobody. But is he treating his fanbase the way they deserve? I’m not so sure about that.
He has published a total of 11 chapters for Arya, Sansa, & Bran combined in almost 15 years. And those are three of the main characters he started his fans on the journey for when he first started the series. Books 4 & 5 are basically one book split into two. Think about that for a second. He has written one giant book to continue his series in the last 15 years….
It worries me when I see him say that he finally knows how one of the female characters dies. He has had over 20 years to figure that stuff out. It should be about concluding the series now.
The show isn’t to blame at all. All it has done is give more fans a bigger spotlight to put on GRRM and his issues with writing his saga.
GRRM is under no obligation to finish the books to placate HBO or David and Dan. The only obligation he is under is the one that his publishers place on him. Tough crap for David and Dan and HBO if he doesn’t finish the books for them and they’re forced to either make it up or use an outline. If they are as good writers as many make them out to be than I don’t see what the problem should be. They have his outlines, they have his notes, they supposedly have their own creative brain, I would think that should be enough.
Anyone trying to suggest a writer in an entirely different medium who sold the rights to his story to HBO and two other people to run the show, is somehow at fault for not finishing the book series is trolling looking to start a fight. Since when is HBO incapable of putting on a successful series simply because the final two books of the series are yet to be completed? Some of you can’t have it both ways. On the one hand I’ve seen David and Dan better writers than Martin but on the other it’s you can’t blame David and Dan because Martin didn’t finish the books. So which is it? I’ve read both those arguments from some of you people, but you can’t have both.
I wouldn’t say they exploited the situation. They signed up to adapt the books at a time when everybody thought there was no chance the show would catch up to the books.
They went to him in 2006 to talk about the show. Even if GRRM took 4 years for each book to write…. We would have seen this publishing schedule:
1) A Dance With Dragons – 2009
2) The Winds of Winter – 2013
3) A Dream of Spring – 2017
Those would have been reasonable time frames to get the books written. And I bet if GRRM needed an extra 6 months to get the last book out before the show, HBO would have granted him that wish.
However, that never happened. He will be lucky to get Book 6 out before the end of the show. And he really messed it up for himself.
“After recently being announced as a director for the upcoming season of Game of Thrones, director Jack Bender (Lost, The Sopranos) confirmed he read an advanced copy of The Winds of Winter[I miss the comma here, cause it means a different thing without it] in his recent AMA (ask me anything) on Reddit.”
Sorry for the grammar nazi thing 🙁
I think you have it wrong. GRRM isn’t hurting HBO. He is hurting his own fans. He is allowing his story to be spoiled in a different medium. That is a slap in the face to his book reading fanbase.
And while the fans aren’t effected either way…. GRRM is really not living up to his end of the bargain to HBO. He sold them the rights to ASOIAF…. And then didn’t finish it in time for the books to be adapted. Not good…. not good….
How is it an exploitation?
Let me explain you how it works – D&D have a job of making an adaptation of the book series. This adaptation can be as faithful as they like, GRRM has absolutely no say in this. D&D can add aliens and giant robots to the series if they like (see True Blood as an example of an adaptation gone horribly wrong). They try to be as faithful as possible, considering the book series is unfinished and all they have is some rough outline of where the things go. Again, they are doing their job. The only person to blame for books not being finished by now (or ever) is one GRRM.
When D&D approached Martin in 2006 or whenever, it was a reasonable assumption that the books will be finished by the time the show gets to seasons 5-6-7 (if it ever gets there). D&D are not out to destroy a beloved book series because they are horrible hacks or whatever they are called among the rabid book-wankers. They are two guys doing their best to adapt something that doesn’t even exist at this stage.
I agree
I have read the books. And I just can’t see any way in which D&D contributed to this situation.
The last 2 (maybe even 3) seasons were basically written from an outline.
Agreed with everything but the bolded. “Exploited” is a bit strong don’t you think?
And to add to my comment about about giving each book 4 years to be published…
Martin himself promised ADWD a year after AFFC, and didn’t deliver. D&D really had no clue the show would be finished first. According to Martin himself, Book 5 should have been published in 2006, and that would have given him 11 years for 2 more books.
Martin completely dropped the ball….
Alex Greyjoy,
Exploited was the wrong way to phrase it. They took advantage of the situation, but not in a bad way. If they hadn’t done that then we wouldn’t have the show.
Sunfyre,
You’re right, it was wrong way to put it. They saw an excellent opportunity and they seized it and I’m glad that they did because now we have a great show. Even if it falters at times lol.
I also think George gimped himself with AFFC and ADWD. Both books were far too sprawled out in narrative with all the new POV characters and subplots, and should’ve been trimmed down and fused into a single volume. Because he split it in half, years worth of time to work on TWOW and ADOS vanished and he has a truckload of new plot threads he now has to weave together in TWOW (unless he ends up splitting that in half as well). It’s a mess.
mau,
Oh, I’m sorry. That’s nothing at all like you telling GRRM he needs to finish his books as soon as possible as it’s what you want? Being quite the hyprocrite there.
What exactly are you angry about? The show will continue to do what the show does and the books will continue to do what the books do. You’re not being made to read/watch either. If you want to read the books before the show then have some self control and don’t watch the show. If you want to watch the show then watch that and then enjoy the books when they come out. I see no need for a cyber-tantrum.
Also, why do we need to attribute blame to anyone especially for some imagined slight (some people aren’t providing you entertainment in the exact way you want it!)? Sometimes things happen that aren’t ideal. Stop pointing fingers and just accept that things won’t go exactly the way you want them to all the time.
Alex Greyjoy,
I’m not a “book wanker” and I never called D&D hacks. I also agreed above that exploited was too strong of a word. Why do people have to talk about book readers and show watchers using these derogatory terms?
mau,
They contributed by adapting a story that wasn’t finished. Now I’m not saying that it’s their fault that it isn’t finished, but they adapted a book series that isn’t finished and now a lot of us are left in a troubling situation regarding how this story will be finished.
Maceless Fan,
No worries 🙂
The situation definitely sucks. But it is what it is. Hopefully GRRM can crank out TWOW in time for next season.
This^
I’m glad there’s people that understand. It’s not that hard.
Book Purist needs to dissapear. Nobody wants to hear their whinning anymore, especially now that we’re heading towards the 6th season.
Now let me get back to my ASOIAF and read it again and enjoy it, just how I enjoy my show.
Yeah, when you put the whole four years per book outline into perspective, that does look pretty bad. I feel like at the beginning of the adaptation, George honestly thought that he would be able to finish in time. But it seems that he’s over extended himself with a lot of other non-asoiaf stuff. And even though I loved TWOIAF, that book should’ve been released after the actual series. It’s George’s life and he can do whatever he wants, but it still sucks.
And yet somehow the show goes on, and will continue to have millions of viewers, and I will happily buy the book whenever it happens to come out, and the seasons will change, and the sun still comes up in the morning.
I’m very curious as to which comma rule was broken. I cannot find the one. Here are the comma rules along with a few other rules: https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/566/01/.
Commas aren’t required after book titles unless the title is redundant (a nonessential element) such as, “The book, The Winds of Winter, will be out next year.” Though beginning phrases require commas, ending phrases rarely are separated off by commas even by the truly pedantic. Separating ending phrases with commas, though optional, is not a requirement by any grammar books I’ve seen. So what rule tells us that the quote merits or even necessitates a comma? And what different thing does that quote mean without the comma?
I am a book reader, and I am not frustrated by this. I was frustrated that he hadn’t considered his fans when he stopped publishing the books. Now tho I really dont give a damn. He gave it all up for the show to take over, its obvious to me now. I am assuming that the show is following what George told them about the ending of it all, so Im going to continue to watch and enjoy it. If later he comes up with a book, I might or might not read it. But Im no longer frustrated by it all
ash,
It sounds like you’re past the point of frustration that I’m not yet lol. I know that D&D aren’t just making up a brand new ending, but following what George told them for the most part. I accept the show for what it is and I’ll watch it until the end. Some people have refused to continue watching, or even start watching until the books are finished. A small part of me wishes that I had never even read the books until the show was completed, which is something that people do as well. And though it would’ve certainly spared me some grief, I’m definitely happy that I’ve read them. Where else would I have found characters named Nimble Dick and Shitmouth hahaha.
Maceless Fan,
Awesome review 🙂
Are you hyperventilating again ?
Pop a Xanax, will make your wank more bearable.
3waywithCersei,
I know, right? I’ve read it like 5 times and as silly as it is, it always makes me crack up
I’m honestly not trying to attack anyone here when I ask this question, but why the hell is it such a big deal for some of you that the show will end up finishing this story before the books do? Is it not possible for you to simply enjoy the show AND the books in their own right without having to constantly compare them to their counterparts? The idea that HBO / D&D should put the show on hiatus until George finishes the books is 1.) incredibly naive, 2.) almost delusional, and 3.) reeking of a sense of narcissistic entitlement (“I’m a BOOK READER; I DESERVE to read the ending first before everyone else!”). Like it or not, this story has gone far beyond the original books to the point where it’s become ingrained into the larger global pop culture. I know this might come off as a bit insensitive, but it really is not all about you book readers anymore (and, FWIW, I’ve read the books).
To put it succinctly: If it really bothers you THAT much that the show is going to finish the story before George even gets to finish TWoW, do yourselves a favor and join Elio and Linda in their proverbial cone of silence. No one is going to force you to either watch the show or go online to show-based Web sites. If you want to be part of the show going forward, great. If not, great. Just don’t sit here and incessantly complain about the books being spoiled when no one’s forcing you to watch. Rant over.
RBloodworth,
Unfortunately, ‘silence’ is not something that there is any hope of those 2 maintaining.
The only angry person here is you. I don’t care for GRRM or his books anymore. The only thing that I care at this moment is D&D’s vision of this story.
I just said that there is no proof that GRRM wrote anything since 2011. If you have some proof give it to me.
mau,
So the suggestion here seems to be that GRRM hasn’t written a page in 5 years, despite reports from himself, his publicist, and D&D that he has been hard at work on the book, because…what? Writers block got him down for 5 years?
Why are people even enertaining an argument that is as unreasonable as this?
He obviously isn’t willing to hand out later chapters, because they would either contain spoilers or require context of other chapters or events from the book in order to understand what’s happening. The earliest chapters are generally the easiest chapters to display, for the reader has context being fresh off the previous books.
Plus, what do you expect? He is not gonna release the entire book through sneak peeks. He’s already given 5 chapters early! I’m just glad he have is a taste to hold me over until Winds. Completely reasonable argument not being able to read his new chapters =/= them not existing.
There is no way to avoid spoilers, and Linda is an idiot if she thinks she can. She would have to completely isolate herself from all ASOIAF/GoT discussions, avoid the mass media for months each year to avoid headline spoilers, and not even participate in any discussions of other fantasy/scifi, because she might get accidently spoiled there, too. For example here last week, someone casually spoiled the key points of the end of the Harry Potter series as part of a compare/contrast to GoT. Once the series is over, people are not going to treat its ending as spoilers, and will discuss them openly in a wide variety of context. Linda cannot hide, so why is she bothering to try, other than to make a silly show of it?
flintwielder,
I see it’s still not past your bedtime yet.
mau,
Well, I will let others judge whether I’ve expressed any anger or not. You say you don’t care yet in the very next paragraph you claim to have information that GRRM hasn’t written for 5 years suggesting you care enough to follow how much he is writing. Again, this is hypocrisy.
I haven’t claimed to have any evidence that he is writing. He can sit on a beach drinking cocktails for all I care. I’ll happily wait for as long as it takes him to write it and enjoy the show version until then. If it never happens then it’d be a shame but life goes on. You’re coming across as very self-entitled. I think it’s perfectly understandable that a chap in his late 60s wants to enjoy himself and do things he wants to do instead of slavishly work at a book for a largely unappreciative fanbase.
What do you expect us to do? Break into his house and steal his Wordstar?
TWOW will probably be out sometime next year, or 2017 at the latest. Will you then admit that GRRM wrote between 2011 and 2015, and apologize for being so wrong?
I’m probably in the minority here, and I don’t mean this in any way to lecture to folks who don’t like spoilers that they are wrong to feel that way, but now that I’m older I really don’t care if I already know how a story is going to turn out before watch or read it. I far more enjoy the telling of the story, even if I know the bullet points and how it’s going to work out in the end. The main enjoyment for me comes from a good story with rich, complex characters, good dialogue, and if it’s a show or movie, good acting with actor chemistry and ability of each actor to bring out the best in the other’s skills, and the story itself. A surprising twist ending or unexpected death or turn of plot is only a fleeting pleasure of “didn’t see that coming!”.
After all, many of us re-read or re-watch our favorite stories and shows with the same amount or sometimes more pleasure as we did the first time!
So if they can keep the quality writing (a few missteps last season perhaps), excellent casting, and great actor chemistry, I don’t mind the TV show spoiling the books. And if and when the books finally do come out, I will probably enjoy the far more complex story available there, though I too feel that the last two books may have wandered off a bit now and then. Well, maybe more than a bit, but still, the story will be far fuller, with plenty of other new surprises and details for everyone to enjoy.
So I’m staying pretty chill about it all.
Just my 2.5c!
Not to mention the fact that, due to her reputation among the GoT/aSoIaF fandom, I have absolutely no doubt that there’s a certain segment of the fandom that will go out of their way to deliberately spoil key plot events of the story for her. Unless she goes completely off the grid, she’s going to get the ending spoiled for her no matter what happens.
Lindamon,
I’m must admit I’m certainly becoming more of that mindset too. I can happily watch films based on historical events or stories I’m familiar with and really enjoy them. Plus most plotlines are relatively predictable so it’s much more about the execution. It was pretty obvious what was going to happen for most of Jurassic World but I still enjoyed the hell out of it as it was done in a slick and fun way. I think GoT spoilers piss people off more because it is a lot less predictable than your average fare. Although , after the first season, I went out and devoured every book before Season 2. Having a strong outline of what was going to happen didn’t ruin my enjoyment of the show at all. I took pleasure from seeing how they’d adapt it and how certain scenes would be realised on screen.
I cared enough. Now I don’t. And I don’t care now because I have followed him for years.
And you are coming across as very arrogant, because you think you have some right to suggest me what to think.
Please spare me of your monologues about GRRM (always the same monologues). I can do whatever I want. I can think about him whatever I want.
And if I think that he is disrespectful to his fans, that he doesn’t care about the books and that he hasn’t written anything since 2011. it is my right and I don’t need you to tell me what to do.
Did you understand that? Thank you.
Ofc.
And will you apologize when he misses that deadline (2017) ?
mau,
I didn’t think you were angry?
Again, you obviously still care as you’re discussing it aggressively in a forum. If you didn’t care you wouldn’t be starting fights with people over it. So it’s arrogant to have an opinion different to yours now? Also, these famous monlogues about GRRM I do, please enlighten me? Sure it won’t be long until you pull out the tried and tested ‘book purist’ label.
You’re right. You’re quite entitled to your childish tantrums because you’re not getting a book you want. I’m also quite entitled to suggest you calm down and show some patience.
Respect is a two-way street. You get what you put in and you are showing the creator of a show you enjoy and a series of books you ( apparently) used to enjoy none.
Don’t worry, I understand perfectly. You can stop having your little sulk now.
TheTouchOfFrost,
*wank, wank, wank*
PREACH!!! 🙂
I started my rewatch of Season 5 today. Now, of course I have seen Season 5 in its entirety already, so I am “spoiled” as to what happened to each character by the end of the season. Knowing this, Episode 1 is practically perfect on my rewatch – every single minute of it! It is so richly foreshadowed now, it’s unbelievable. Every scene has layers and layers. Not only that, the entire ending sequence of the episode was fabulous. The Mance and Jon dialogue finally made complete sense to me as to Mance’s motives and what exactly he was trying to tell Jon and failing (it was like the two were from Mars and Earth!), and it richly foreshadowed (for me) where the end of the entire story is going. And Stannis, Mance, Red Mel, Shireen, Selyse at the end of Ep.1? I almost cried knowing what was to come. It’s not the “twists” or “shocks” that are all that important, it’s the journey for each and every character.
Ginevra, Fidel
Quick trick: just read it out loud. Anywhere your voice pauses, for emphasis or to make the sense clear, you pop in a comma. That's not perfect, doesn't obviate the need for some "real" comma rules (let's not get into abt whether or not you want to put a comma after the next-to-last item, the one before "and", in a series…). But it'll look & sound right 95% of the time.
I mean the Season 6 outline “is” TWOW on the big notes. So what’s the difference?
To bad we don’t have a like button here. This rates a +100
Alex Greyjoy,
Yes, while still having such an ego that they must change 90% of the books. Which I don’t really mind, as long as they don’t produce horrors like Brienne’s storyline in S5 or Yara’s trip in S4…
And just wait until Jorah finds Dany’s ring in the vast land that is Essos.
Unlike Lindamom, I rarely enjoy rewatches or rereads. The book or show has to be in my top 5% before I would even consider a repeat, and even then, the repeat is typically much less enjoyable. (And I’m pretty old, too.)
Game of Thrones is the only television show, now or ever, that I watch twice each week. To me, that says something profound about the quality of the show, and it makes me sad when others get so wrapped up in their visions of what the show should be that they cannot appreciate the striking beauty she is.
Where have you heard this??
A Lurker,
You are the one who start the fight over it. I never mentioned you, I didn’t say anything to you, and yet you think you have some right to tell me what to think, to analyze what I want?
Unbelievable!
Are you blind? Can you read what I am writing to you? The only reason I was mentioning books is because people misunderstood words from this director. Some fans here still don’t understand how little GRRM cares about them, or about books
No, you clearly don’t understand, because you have your same monologues as always (blah blah, why you need to choose between books and the show bleh blah blah).
You just copy-past that monologue to everyone, without reading what someone said.
Because if you understood what I said to you, you wouldn’t write something like “you’re not getting a book you want”. A book I want?! I said that I don’t want TWOW before S6, I won’t read TWOW if GRRM publishes that book before S6.
But you are too arrogant to read my post, you think you can put words in my mouth and just responde to something I didn’t even write.
They change 90% of the books? Talk about overreacting. Show is at least 70% loyal to the books. I’ve seen adaptations that only take the title of the book or the main idea, if anything. See: The Shining or Jurassic Park, those movies, while cool in their own right, have almost nothing to do with Crichton’s and King’s books.
How was Brienne’s storyline a horror? Would it be better to have her wandering aimlessly, getting her face bitten and disfigured by a maniac and then given a mock hanging?
If that was exactly how the question was phrased then it’s very easy to misunderstand.
The question talks of Book 6 of “Game of Thrones”. What the hell is that?
“Game of Thrones” is a TV series how can it have Books?
So what was the question really asking?
“Have you read Book 6 of A Song of Ice and Fire?” or “Have you read Season 6 of Game of Thrones?”
Bender obviously thought the question meant the second option.
mau,
I take issue with you claiming that GRRM doesn’t care about his fans when you don’t know him and you don’t know his thoughts. To claim you do is delusional. You’re coming over as very bitter about the lack of book so when you say you don’t care it’s hard to take you seriously. I’m not telling you what to do, I’m suggesting you calm yourself down and stop acting like a brat.
If you don’t want people to criticise your opinions don’t put them in a public forum. Plus you say I’m repetative where as you’ve made the same statement about me apparently monologuing (was it word of the day on Sesame Street or something?!) the past few posts. Say something new and I’ll respond differently. Also you’ve obviously not read my posts as I’m a avid supporter of the theory that you can read and watch the books and show and enjoy both rather than pick one which you suggested that I’ve said.
All your posts seem to be thinly veiled (if at all) attacks on the author and people who read the books. I honestly don’t have any idea why this is such an issue for you? If you don’t plan on reading the books then why are you having relentless paddy fits about it not coming out and tracking GRRMs writing time?! I think you’re quite confused.
I don’t need to know his thoughts. I see his behaviour.
And again, you are trying to analyze what I think and what I want.
Is that amusing to you? Trying to be a psychologist? To act from a position of moral superiority?
To be a moral compass on this site? To be medium in every discussion?
No comment.
Morgoth,
How it was a horror? She did nothing. She waited for weeks, and coincidentally the flame turned on after she turned around. The writers only forced her this way because they thought it was cool to make her kill Stannis. It was also way too coincidental that Stannis was the last one living, and Brienne, instead of the Boltons, found her.
Third horror of the season: Ollie.
D&D really can’t write their own storylines. They fall into Hollywood clichés while doing that.
TFT,
Dude. As if the books were Shakespeare or entirely devoid of Hollywood cliches.
There’s only so much you can do in less than 60 minutes of TV. So, yes, stuff gets condensed and “coincidences” happen, because I’ll be damned if I have to watch three episodes of Brienne wandering around in the snow until she finally finds Stannis.
At least you could say D&D actually move the plot forward. How would you have improved the Brienne arc anyway? You didn’t reply as if you would’ve preferred the AFFC arc, which isn’t less horrible in any shape or form.
*Delayed reaction* Sorry! Haven’t had the opportunity to be on the boards like I wanted.
Any who! Getting back to this convo (hopefully you’re still reading this comment section). I agree with your opinion on AFFC. Not that it’s the most polarizing aspect of the book fandom (although, I’m pretty sure it’s up there in rank), but that it was a decent book. I mean, I didn’t love it, but I didn’t hate it either. It had it’s good parts, specifically the ones you’ve mentioned; but it also dragged excessively (Brienne) and I really just hated everything Greyjoy (then again, I really just despise that whole House, so anything involving them will automatically chafe my ass).
Speaking of Septon Meribald, do you actually think that character casting is for him? And if you do, do you think the show will start introducing these narratives about the horror and suffering the “Game” has caused on the small folk? Personally, I’m not sure that casting is for him. It sounds like him, but I’m confused as to why they’d be bringing him into the story now, and I’m equally perplexed as to whose storyline he’ll be in (no…I don’t subscribe to the idea that Brienne will be in the Riverlands next season unless…for whatever reason…she finds Sansa and takes her there). However, I am inclined to think that the show just might start introducing these elements of the common people’s suffering. I think it fits their overall narrative that the next person to sit on the Iron Throne should be a “compassionate” person who recognizes and understands the horrors of war (and humanity in general).
As far as the polarizing elements between book/show, I think you’re right. Those will probably continue till Kingdom Come, although, I think the majority of these disputes would have been nonexistent had the books been finished already. What I mean to say is that I think A LOT of these book/show arguments are borne from notions about what we THINK is going to happen. The importance of characters (LS, Coldhands, Barristan, Arienne, etc), the characterization of characters (Sansa, Jamie), the trajectory of their individual arcs (Stannis, Jon, Tyrion)…all of those arguments could have been easily squashed had we already known the endgame. If we knew the endgame, it would have been easy to see why D&D made the changes they made. But since we don’t know–and all that we can go by is what we THINK is going to happen–it makes every difference so much more explosive than it probably would have been otherwise.
Sure, I’ll apologize to you if TWOW is not published by 01/01/2018, if you apologize if it is published before then. Care to wager? I like other peoples’ money.
I really am not looking forward to seeing Olly for a 3rd season. I give not one shit about his ultra-simplified faux “ides of Marsh” cause. Ser Alliser, you fickle fool, I hope you become direwolf fodder for all I care. May Benjen exact his revenge on those who used his name unjustly. I vote for Tormund as the next Lord Commander of the NW.
If a version of the book would be already edited we would have most likely found out. Sorry. But it’s not a tragedy, a book can be edited and released in 3-4 months, they kind of did that with A Dance With Dragons
RosanaZugey,
That’s a nice thought and all for those who watch the tv show, but us fans of the book have been waiting almost an entire decade for this. I think we should be able to have this one. Besides, if you know anything about the books, they are now so different it’s almost like watching a new story with just the same name/vague locations. Stannis getting killed/burning his daughter? Huge spoiler for the books that I would have preferred reading. We can’t all get what we want.
TheTouchOfFrost,
Well, maybe you should follow GRRM’s twitter and see/listen to the kind of things he’s said to his fans. Not down right terrible, but enough to step back and see that his fans are not his priority. It’s been almost ten years. As a dedicated fan of the books, that is seriously ridiculous. He left it off on a MASSIVE cliffhanger and then can’t be bothered for nearly ten years? You’re seriously going to sit there and try and defend that? I love the books, and the world, but the reality of it is GRRM is old, filthy rich, and more than likely enjoying his (last few) years. We’re not his concern, and that’s okay. Instead of attacking someone and getting all pseudo-intellectual, maybe you should take a step back and review the facts.
A Lurker,
Where did you hear/read that?
Morgoth,
I would’ve let the Boltons kill Stannis and let Brienne see Sansa’s candle because it was too predictable Brienne would find Stannis. Clichés and these coincidences can easily be avoided.
I really hope they avoid these kind of things in season 6.
Kakob,
I’m not going to take part in the whole discussion in any detail. The books will come out when they come out (if they come out) and then I will be very happy and read them. Until then I watch the show. – But “A Dance with Dragons” came out in 2011, that’s hardly “almost ten years”.
JamesL,
thank you. someone who actually thinks before speaking
mau,
You’re making bold statements fo your own opinion and presenting them as fact. When you do that then expect to receive criticism.
You’re the one reading too much into my comments. If I had to say you had anything then it’s an inferiority complex with a dab of paranoia.
Think you may need to research the difference between an order and a suggestion.
Kakob,
Ok. The facts are a writer hasn’t released a book in a series for a few years as he’s been writing other things (including novellas based in the same universe) as well as screenplays for the very show that brought everyone here.
Look at his release record.
A Game of Thrones (1996)
A Clash of Kings (1998)
A Storm of Swords (2000)
A Feast for Crows (2005)
A Dance with Dragons (2011)
That’s not too bad if you consider all the other stuff he’s written and that in 2010 the monster that is the show must have consumed a lot of his time. Ever thought he might like a break from writing the same story? It’s not as if he’s been sat round doing nothing he’s been doing other projects, promoting the show, doing conventions (but yeah he doesn’t care about the fans despite having been doing them for decades) and quite rightly enjoying the fruits of his labour which every person in their mid 60s is more than entitled to do.
I’m not on Twitter as it bores me. With the internet as it is though I imagine there are a fair few pricks who deserve the sharper side of his tongue.
At the end of the day, if you’re fed up of waiting then see you later. Patience is a virtue and I’d rather wait for something good than have it rushed out to appease people behaving like spoilt brats.
Agreed
mau,
Why does there need to be proof that something has been written since 2011? I don’t understand this argument. Since when do we keep tabs on authors finishing books like a famous actor on location for a movie? Also, if I am not mistaken didn’t he turn some new pages in back in early 2013 to meet a deadline to get a paycheck? Sure those could have been previously written pages. I mean the publisher even said so or was that retracted. Regardless, who cares if there is proof or not if he is writing. He says all the time on is blog that he is “Working on Kong” (TWOW) whenever he is home in Santa Fe. I personally don’t find the man to be a liar. The only thing that he has told us wrong is when certain books will be out. That doesn’t make the guy a liar and shouldn’t trust any word he states. What you have never said something that you meant to happen that ended up not happening?
I am not sure that this is not insulting. But I will not ask for moderators to react to this. There is no point.
Such a pity. Your mask of “moral compass of this site” and “voice of reason” has fallen so quickly. And what remains? Only insults and unfounded conviction of moral superiority.
This should teach you to stay out of the discussions that are not yours. Save your dignity . 🙂
mau,
Dude, I am just responding as a pure observer. I don’t know you at all but the way you come off in your responses is brash and aggressive. I can almost bet that you don’t see it that way, and that is cool, if you do see it then I bet you don’t mean for your responses to come off that way. But I am just saying people are responding to your responses because of the attitude that is portrayed in your response. That is all. I do understand some of your points but I disagree with other points. I don’t care how you respond but it does seem like you are getting worked up by people responding to you. They are only responding to you because each time your response comes off that much more hard. Remember this is a day in age where people never get the full meaning of a bloggers response…
And that is the main difference between you and me. You can trust him if you want, it is your right, but for me GRRM is a liar.
Because he has lied so many times, and there is only one reason for his lies. He can’t admit a simple truth. He is not able to finish this story. He lost his plot, he lost sense of momentum, he lost motivation.
You are not mistaken, but these pages were from ADWD.
I’m very aggressive to people who act as they can read my mind, who think they know what I want, or why I’m writing something.
You are a pure observer, and you should see that I was the attacked site. I just said that GRRM don’t care about his books or his fans, and then someone wrote a psychological analysis of me, accusing me of paranoia, inferiority complex, hypocrisy,….
And all of that just because i think that GRRM doesn’t care for this story.
I think there are a lot of factors that happened to this dilemma of show or book. One, I think Martin believed the show should have been 8-10seasons. Which would have given him more time to finish the books. I also think he became more famous then he dared to ever think he would. He started to get invited to go do things that his celebrity status before the show wouldn’t allow him to do. I am an optimist that book 6 will be out prior to season 6. Mainly because I think a majority of theories and questions would surface and be answered in book 6 and he desperately wants that to be answered by his own words and not HBO. I hope anyways.
mau,
No I understand, I kind of do the same thing when I talk sports with friends.
I was actually expecting the Boltons to kill Stannis, but then again, people always whine about how nothing good ever happen to the characters, and how all their hopes are taken away from them, etc. So giving Brienne a chance to avenge Renly wasn’t bad at all.
mau,
You’re seriously trying to drag the moderators into this?! You’ve been making personal remarks with every post so as soon as I respond to a point YOU raised about psychological analysis you play the victim.
Again, this ‘moral compass’ thing is something you’ve cooked up in your mind and labelled me with! So now you’re trying to criticise me for not being something I never claimed to be in t he first place! If having a different opinion to you is having “moral superiority” then you must have a pretty low opinion of yourself!
Sorry , chum. You put things up in a public forum then you need to accept they’re going to be criticised. Can’t take your ball and go home when people don’t agree with you.
Speak for yourself.
Let’s not forget how all this started. I said that I don’ think that GRRM is working hard on TWOW. I didn’t say anything about you and I didn’t try to analyze your personal characteristics.
You were the one, who tried to play on that card.
you said :
You see? You didn’t disagree with me, you didn’t attack my opinion, you attacked me.
You told me to stop throwing my toys?! You told me something about a book I want? I want?!
Those are the same things you are saying to everyone who criticizes GRRM and his writing pace.
And that is why I told you to stop acting as the moral compass of this site, because you are not GRRM’a advocate, you can disagree with me about his writing, but I will not let anyone to accuse me of paranoia, inferiority complex, hypocrisy,….
You attacked me ad hominem for my opinion, and yet you continue to give me a moral lessons. I don’t know what to say. You have no shame.
Evidence? I have evidence.
You can read all his post on Not a blog. And there you will find out about his projects and his trips and his sad puppies wars and you can count them all and then you will see that there is no physical possibility for him to finish or write his book(s).
flintwielder,
Well, at least you’ve increased your vocabulary beyond “book wanker”. Well done , you.
mau,
I was telling you how you were coming across to me and I stand by MY opinion that you and others are behaving like impatient children when you can’t have what you want and claim to have knowledge about the author that you do not. I would have hoped that in that it was implied that I don’t agree with your opinion.
Most people on here who criticise his writing pace do so either through good-humoured jesting or in a polite manner. You delve into character assassination and spreading non-truths about the author. That’s the difference. Don’t like being attacked ad hominem then don’t do it to others (by all means do it to me as I’m not as thin-skinned as you seem to be but Mr Martin isn’t here to defend himself so it’s a pretty cowardly act). There’s that hypocrisy that I was talking about with you. Speaking of hypocrisy didn’t you say I was “repeating myself” and “not reading what you wrote” yet you cling to this bizarre notion of me being a “moral compass”! Must say I find it a bit odd.
Also, if you’re “not bothered about the books anymore” why are you cyber-stalking the author?! Unless you can claim to be GRRM then you don’t know his thoughts and feelings on the books or fans. If you claim you do then you’re , by any standard, wrong. So , do you?
There is only one way to find out. We will wait.
I think that it is enough to look at his list of projects and trips to see that there’s no way he finishes TWOW in 2016. or 2017.
You think that that is not enough to draw that conclusion. Fine. We will see. I think that’s fair.
If he publishes book in 2017 or 2016, you were right, but If he misses that deadline, I’m right. You should remember that this discussion started because some people thought it is realistic to expect book in 2016.
And to be clear, this is not betting.
And what is impolite in “I don’t think that GRRM is working hard on TWOW”?
mau,
So you admit that you don’t know what the author has written and his opinion on the fans and his own books?
Also when the book comes out means nothing in this regard although I’m confident it will be out within the next couple of years.
“Some fans here still don’t understand how little GRRM cares about them, or about books”
“GRRM is a liar”
“GRRM don’t care about his books or his fans”
All things you’ve said and not exactly the epitome of politeness. Certainly not the played down “I don’t think that GRRM is working hard on TWOW”? you’re now trying to present.
I won’t admit it. I think I know his opinion about the fans and his own books. We will wait and see. But I’m sure that you know I’m right. He will not publish TWOW before 2018, and ADOS will never be written
And I’ll wait to be proven wrong.
What is impolite in this? If someone thinks that GRRM will publish TWOW in 2016, my opinion is that that person is not well informed, and I’m willing to help, to provide informations on GRRM’s activities.
Fine. GRRM is a person who doesn’t tell the truth.
Again, what is impolite in this? Tell me “the polite way” to say that? Because I truly think that he doesn’t care. Or is it forbidden to think that?
It is not played down. It is the first sentence I wrote on this subject. And you attacked me for that sentence, mentioning my “toys”, my wishes, etc.
mau,
“I think I know” isn’t knowing. In fact, it’s a contradiction within four words! Do you KNOW what his thoughts on his fans and books are? It’s a simple question. I’ve never claimed to know anything about his thoughts. You make claims you need to back them up. So do you KNOW?
You’re making blanket claims about another person’s opinion. You can’t present these as fact as you have been doing. Either way, they are inflammatory remarks that are a long way away from being well-mannered. For someone who seems so sensitive about how language is used, I would have thought you’d be more careful in that regard.
I don’t get the claim that there’s no evidence that GRRM has written any chapters for TWOW except the leftover ADWD chapters from 2011. We know of the following confirmed chapters that have been posted or read at cons:
Theon I
Barristan I
Barristan II
Tyrion I
Tyrion II
Victarion I
Mercy (Arya I)
Alayne (Sansa I)
Arianne I
Arianne II
There’s also a Damphair chapter that GRRM offered to read at a con that was passed over in favour of an Arianne chapter.
…Were all of these chapters left over from ADWD? If not, I don’t think it’s fair to say that there’s no evidence that GRRM has written nothing since 2011.
You are just playing with my words, but to be claer, yes, I know that he doesen’t care.
These are facts. There is so much evidence for this. You don’t buy it? Fine. Your choice is not to face reality, but sooner or later you will see that I was right all the time.
See you in 2018. 😉
They were.
mau,
You’re now claiming to know what another human being you have never met is thinking? I’m sorry but that is ridiculous.
So, what you are saying is that it is a fact that he doesn’t care about his fans or his own books? You can have your own opinion but you can’t have your own facts.
Your pride is making you look very silly right now!
I analyze him as a writer, not as a person. You don’t need to meet someone to say if he cares. Did you meet Obama, or politicians in your country?
No, but you are judging them, by their public behavior.
It is the fact. And you know that. Of course, you will deny it, because you are so devoted to him. You will deny it now, you will will deny it next year, and even when he dies, you will deny it.
But the time will be my best witness. You can juggle with my words, you can go back and forth, but that doesn’t matter, because sooner or later everything I said will happen.
Whether this will be because of my magic ability to read someone’s thoughts, or my ability to see the obvious.
I will impatiently wait for your reaction then.
mau,
You’re analysing his behaviour. That doesn’t necessarily translate to what they think. I’m not American but if you think politicians behaviour is an indication of how they think you’re very naive! You said you know what his thoughts are..don’t backtrack now.
Why do you think I’m devoted to someone because I think you claiming to know other peoples minds is delusional?!
Weren’t you making claims of myself acting “superior” and yet that is possibly the single most arrogant post I’ve ever read! Life inside your bubble must be very comfortable. Going to be quite the shock for you when it pops.
I’m not speaking about what he personally thinks. I speak about him as a writer, as a professional.
And as a writer, he failed, he failed more than any popular writer I know.
Oh, it will be shock. You’ll see. But it will be your fault.
http://esreality.com/files/placeimages/2014/99411-ralph.jpg
mau,
How did he fail? The Winds of Winter may very well be one of the most sold books of all-time. Even with the delays and the show that book will still sell. I would personally call a failure someone who started Westeros and by the end no one was even buying the books anymore. That clearly won’t be the case.
Also, what is your reasoning as to why he hates his fans, cause he flipped off a guy who question his health? I would have done the same, remember he is a 60 year old man who has celebrity status he has never had before. We can’t expect him to act like top notch young athletes are expected to. He is an old man from a different generation and if he gets attacked personally from fans he will most likely respond.
I would say it is weird for someone who hates his fans to allow them to respond to him on his own personal blog. I also find it hard to believe he wasn’t writing at all. He basically was home December, January and February claiming to work on the book in his blog. His blog is not just discussion for ASOIAF it is about his life and all his works. He talks football a lot on there. He mentions his cinema a lot. It is not like he is there every night watching the same thing over and over again. There is a lot of time in a day, one can easily write 300 words in the morning and afternoon and still make the opening at their cinema watch a movie and still go to dinner. But then again you think he is a liar so anything I say the possibly back-up him writing you will argue against.
I fear there aren’t many open minds on here, to much pride and ego.
*sits in a corner flipping a coin*
Who will finally be the bigger person and just back out of this “no one wins” debate (to me it is a silly argument, but what do I know).
Heads or tails? You call it!!
Is this what is in store for WotW for the off season? Every thread breaking to book/show or D&D/GRRM fans and debates? Is that what happened last off season? Just wondering, because I thought this would be a great place for speculation and reasoned debate about next season. *sigh*
“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
― George Carlin
I wasn’t clear enough. He failed because the show will finish first.
There is a big difference between “hate” and “doesn’t care”. I don’t think that he hates his fans.
But I think that he is tired of this story. And it is natural. No one can write the same story for 25 years with the same passion.
I don’t blame him for that. Actually, I don’t blame him for anything. At this point, it is not realistic to expect him to care. I wouldn’t. Many wouldn’t.
Everything he does indicate that he is done with this story. Even now, he is very passionate about this world, but this story is just a burden
Why would GRRM release the last of his novels when the show is over? That would make absolutely no sense. He will release a novel before season 6. Yes the HBO show has taken liberties, but they can’t completely rewrite and change the entire trajectory of his novels.
mau,
You did not make that clear in all of your previous statements so would you like to retract where you called him a liar and that he doesn’t care about his fans or his books? What has he done that’s unprofessional?! He’s writing a book an taking the time he needs to get it right. If he just rushed out any crap to make money ( which he could quite easily do with the phenomnon the show is meaning he’d make a lot if he did) then that would be unprofessional.
How has he “failed”?! You’ve not even read the book! He’s stated many times now that the books and show ar now diffrent entitites. If you accept that then you’ll enjoy both a lot more.
Sorry but that last sentence made no sense whatsoever.
JCDavis,
We need something to do until we’ve got more casting/filming rumours to get our teeth into! If you’re not enjoying it then feel free to ignore.
Ugh, can we have a buried post where these little feuds can relocate themselves? It’s really quite silly, you know. And irritating for everybody else.
Off-Topic Otto,
To be fair, this is nowhere near the most current articles and you don’t have to get involved or even read any of the posts if it’s not your thing.
No, he is a liar, because he is giving a false hope to his fans. TWOW in 2016. won’t happen.
And as I said, he doesn’t care about his books, or his fans. I don’t think that he is bad person because he dosen’t care. It is normal thing after 25 years. I’m just calling things by their proper names.
Adaptation will become the only ending we will get, and you ask me how he failed?
Another psychological analysis?
We’ve established that there is no way you can provide evidence or read his thoughts on that matter. Again, you’re making a statement that you simply cannot prove.
He still regularly attends conventions and is writing the book plus novellas and also helps to promote the show. If he doesn’t care for fans or writing anymore then he’s going to great lengths to mask it! Either way , again, you can’t make those claims as you have NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER!
So he has failed because he’s created a world-reknowned series of books that has spawned a mega-hit show that millions enjoy and has provided him with both critical acclaim and a fair amount of money. You may need to look up the definition of failing.
Nope you just an observation that you can’t read something that hasn’t been released yet unless you have added clairvoyancy to your telepathic powers?!
So you are calling *The Wit and Wisdom of Tyrion Lannister* a “professional effort” and not some rushed-out cheap-ass crap to make a quick buck ?
Dude, you are so easy to catch…
We didn’t establish anything. I provide evidence that he doesn’t care. You won’t accept that evidence, but that is your problem.
The time will my best witness. TWOW won’t be published before 2018, and ADOS will never be written.
Yes, he failed, because he is not able to give conclusion to that story.
Every writer can write complicated story, but only great writers can conclude complicated story.
Or his cookbooks. He just wants money. He is not a writer anymore, only businessmen.
flintwielder,
And that book was perfectly fine for what it was . If you expected it to be more than a stocking filler then that’s your lookout. Also both were produced by HBO and the licensors for Game of the Thrones the show. Martin is only listed as the author for the ‘wit’ book as they were his original quotes. If you want to criticise anyone then criticise them…although I can’t see you ever doing that as apparently George Martin is responsible for all the ills of the world, book wankers, drivel, gibber. When have you “caught” me before?! All you do is pop up make obnoixous remarks throw a few insults about then go back to whatever it is you do when you’re not being an asshat.
mau,
Because your evidence is not evidence. It’s your own opinion. Cyber-stalking someone doesn’t mean you can read their mind!
Ok, by that logic you fail at life as yours hasn’t ended yet. Still amazed that you can judge something before you’ve even read it. That’s what is called ignorance. If you’re truly not bothered about the books then why are you spending so much time and effort to rubbish them and to run down the author. You’re acting like a jilted lover.
No, it is not opinion, it’s a fact. Where are the books? Will he finish the books? No.
This makes no sense at all.
I am spending so much time because I’m responding to you. Before that I wrote one sentence.
Arya Havin’ a larf?,
Unfortunately, GRRM has no offspring so there won’t be any Grrrmarillian……….
How is it a fact? You have NO evidence except your own opinion based on what you think of the author. The books hasn’t been released yet. It’s not finished being written. This could be for any number of reasons but you’ve gone the pessimistic route. Have you ever considered that he actually cares a lot about the book and fans so is taking his time to get it right? That’s just as likely as your opinion that is apparently fact now.
Ah good. So you recognise that your statement makes no sense at all either. You’re judging something that is not yet complete which is impossible to do unless you’ve already formed your opinion through ignorance which you appear to have done.
Either way, you obviously still care a lot about the subject or you’d stop replying…although at this point it’s just your foolish pride keeping you going as you’re coming out with some absolute twaddle.
He’ll have an heir whether that will be an offspring or not. Harry the Heir. Or perhaps Elio and Linda the Heirs. Can you imagine? Long live the George.
Wow, this is a pretty intense discussion. Since I did not read all your heated statements, I don’t know if someone said this before but: Last week I went to his reading in Hamburg, Germany. My impression of him was that he is very passionate about those books. He loves the story, loves to write it and he does not care what anyone says about his progress. He takes his time because he wants to get the story right, and I love him for that and totally understand it s- it’s his baby after all and he has all the right to form it as he pleases! He also likes to tease and drive everyone crazy and he’s secretive. That being said – and since I’m also a big Doctor Who fan – my humble opinion on the book progress is: The Doctor always lies! After he read the Arianne Chapter he said: “So that was 18 pages – I only have to write 1400 more and it’s done…” That leads me to the conclusions that 1. He’s writing both books in one (pretty long) go (1400 pages is two books if I’m not mistaken). When you read a little bit about how he writes, you know he goes on with one character until he gets stuck and then continues with another. So he might be at the end for some (main?)characters already and just needs to fill in others. 2. He lies about the progress to contain his sanity. I would absolutely do the same! 3. As far as the tv show goes – I still see the parallels between the books and the show. It is one consistent story although they changed a little, but that is always the necessity in screen adaptations. He won’t let the producers fuck with his baby (sorry about that), I’m pretty sure they have a clear contract on how the main story needs to evolve. I have no doubt, at this point, that we’ll all be satisfied about the outcome of both. My trust in George R.R. Martin, after I saw him talk about his work and his world, is steadfast.
And if that was not clear before – this is just one opinion in a thousand and I could be dead wrong. Still, I have a lot of trust in this very smart man and I hope he has a blast writing his last few chapters.
Thanks for reading, it’s awesome to see how people still get (positively) emotional over a story! Love to be a part of it!
And one more thing: I still think Lady Stoneheart will come back to the TV show. We still don’t know how important she’s gonna be in the coming books. I understand she wasn’t involved in the show yet but she could still become pretty important in the evolving story.
Have a good day y’all! 🙂
Stephanie,
Wouldn’t be at all surprised if he gets a surge of inspiration for his writing soon! He loves history and takes massive inspiration from it for the books (the influences for the storylines and characters go far beyond the War of the Roses than everyone always seems to cite). So I think whenever he comes over here to Europe he makes the most of it and history geeks out in whatever country/city he’s in!
So, you have TWOW and ADOS?
GRRM is a man who is working on 7-8 other projects. He chose his priorities.
Yes, and that is the reason ADWD and AFFC are so great books?
No, I recognize that you are speaking about my death and finishing one big project. I don’t know in which universe that will be the same thing.
And you also said that I failed because I’m still alive? wtf?!
I think you lost yourself in this discussion.
No, it is amusing. You are trying so hard to defend him, and still play the role of neutral side. But you know the truth. GRRM will never write the end of this story.
Is that so hard to admit?
mau,
You really are having a tough time understanding this aren’t you. You have called the man a liar and said he doesn’t care. Somehow that is proved because he has yet to release two books? That’s incredibly flawed logic.
So his personal choices aren’t allowed and he has to do exactly what you want him to? Stop being a brat. He’s entitled to write what he wants and have you ever thought he may have fans of these other projects too?
Well they were both best-sellers and received generally positive reviews (Feast suffered as was compared to SoS and even then it still got good reviews as opposed to the great ones it’s predecessors had). They are both a long way away from being failures. Before you say, you not liking them does not mean that they are in fact bad books. No matter how much you claim it so your opinion is not fact.
It’s called an analogy. You have claimed he has failed when he hasn’t completed. Do you not see why that is a pretty bizarre opinion? If you started making a cup of tea and somone claimed you had failed to do so before the water had boiled you would think it judgemental and non-sensical of them. Only thing I’ve lost is respect for you and your unreasonable assumption that your opinion is fact. Pull your head out of your own arse.
Did someone hurt you? I mean there must be some reason for such bitterness. You are practically revelling in the possibility that the books won’t be released. It’s quite pathetic. Maybe they’ll be released maybe they won’t. Unlike you I don’t claim to know the future. If you hate the author and his books so much then why exactly are you here? You are aware the show wouldn’t exist without them right?
TheTouchOfFrost,
Wow, you are so incredibly delusional, it´s almost fun to read.
Dear Douche of Frost: From me, a very assertive *Whatever !*.
Literally…whatever. Think whatever you want, because..whatever.
That is the deal with literary bottom feeders – they eat shit and think it´s French haute cuisine. Not much to discuss there.
Go back to popping those meds, because…damn !
i would like GRRM takes all his time nd complete winds of winter after november…i would be free from my post graduation preparations to read it ….so curious for its arrival nd to know what happened of me after i was stabbed to death..what a display by david nd D.b wiess …even my pupils were shown dilated indicating death….m the watcher on the wall…greatest fan of GAME OF THRONES
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Can you find the hidden messages?????
flintwielder,
If you’re not going to engage in a grown up conversation then try and post something at least mildly entertaining. If you were half as funny as you think you are, you’d be twice as funny as you really are.
honeyimhome,
How boo?
His personal choices are allowed and he chooses not to write the books.
It is not bizarre. His books are worthless without the end.
For him, water has boiled long ago.
I could ask you the same question. Or I could ask you do GRRM pay you? You are defending that lazy millionaire so hard, it is pathetic.
I’m here because of the show. And the show exists without the books very well.
mau,
His personal choices are allowed as long as they’re what you want him to do. 8sigh8 you are really struggling to grasp the concept of the stupidity of judging something that is unfinished. When they’ve all come out and you’ve read them ( if you get over your little sulk) then you can judge them. Until then y ou don’t have a leg to stand on. How can they be worthless when they’ve provided you with a TV show you love? The willfull ignornance you keep up must be quite exhausting.
I’m defending someone from lies. If you criticise from a standpoint of fact and not opinion then I’m gong to call you on it. I repeat that I find it particularly cowardly to call someone when they’re not there to defend themselves.
If you’re too proud to even admit the show would not exist without the books then you’re further up your own arse than I first thought.
TheTouchOfFrost,
Honey, how can you possibly indulge in adult conversations if you argue and behave like a self-indulgent 5-year old ?
Keep up the *good work*, child. It´s kinda amusing.
This is nonsense. We are speaking about the books. He can choose whatever he wants, and he chooses not to write the books.
So we need to wait for GRRM’s death to state the obvious? You will lie to yourself until then?
They are worthless without the end. Even the first 3 great book. In 20 years, no one will read unfinished book series.
From lies? What lies? He will not finish the books. His time is up. He is too old, too rich and too lazy.
flintwielder,
Yet again you’ve done nothing except name call. You are aware of what hypocrisy is right? Also, comedy really doesn’t suit you. At least Mau, as delusional as they are, tries to keep at least somewhere withing a few miles of the point of the conversation.
mau,
This is getting incredibly boring as you keep repeating the same lies. Ok, let me help you out. You can say “I think he is a liar” and “I don’t think the books will be finished” (both of which I strongly disagree with and think your evidence for both is poor) as they are your opinion but you can’t say “he is a liar” or “he won’t finish the books” as neither is provable so you can’t present them as fact.
Must say you come across as an incredibly miserable, bitter individual who has some bizarre issue with GRRM because he’s been successful. If we’re taking bets then I reckon you’ll read the books when they come out…if you’ve even read the other books.
Maceless Fan,
I’m assuming that ALL the directors would have a copy to get the expressions and shit right.
marsyao,
This information is beyond false. GRRM said all he will be working on, besides his other novels and short stories, would be tWoW. He isnt having anymore interviews or attending any conventions until it is finished. Dont troll please.
TheTouchOfFrost:
And you come across as an arrogant person, too proud to admit the truth.
You can wait for his death if you want, but even after that, you will deny the obvious. It is stronger than you. You are obsessed fan boy.
Live in your childish lies. I have better things to do than answering to a fanatic.
mau,
You’ve gone off the deep end!
You’re angry because I won’t admit YOUR truth. Give me cast-iron evidence to back up your claims and ,no, cyber-stalking his blogs is not irrefutable!
You’re actually disgusting me now. Taking pleasure in someone’s potential death just so you can win a point in an argument. A point that still wouldn’t make any sense as it doesn’t matter in regards to your accusations that he is a liar and not writing the books.
Think you need to take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror and think about what your pride has turned you into. A bitter , loathing creature who takes pleasure in other people’s pain. Actually feel quite sorry for you…well, almost.
Jooooo,
Apparently, based on no evidence at all, he’s a liar! There’s no reasoning with some people once they get an idea in their head.
Knock off the insults and fighting.
mau,
>They are worthless without the end. Even the first 3 great book. In 20 years, no one will read unfinished book series.
ASOIAF is popular enough that someone else would definitely be hired to finish writing TWOW and ADOS if GRRM were to die before he finishes the series.
Trundle Buster,
i don’t know about that, he has said many times that no one else will finish his story, wich i find very sad.
and is a bit selfish if you ask me, many writers take measures to make sure their work would not have been for nothing. this, to me atleast, gives me the impression he does not care about his fans or even that he lost his passion
Yes. For all we know, all may have been left over from ADWD.
Five finished chapters were bumped to Book 6 in 2010. These were Arya, Sansa, Arianne x2, and Aeron (Damphair). That accounts for 5 of the chapters on your list.
Approximately another 90-100 pages (perhaps not entirely finished) were bumped just before publication of DANCE. That probably accounts for the remaining chapters on your list.
A. Nony Mouse,
No idea how GRRM is progressing except it’s either slowly or even more slowly, but just wanted to say I think your alias for use on the website is a good one.
According to several sources close to GRRM, he has only completed roughly 350 manuscript pages. He apparently has been spending alot of time taking care of his cats and his sick mother in law. One of his editors let slip that the TWOW probably wouldn’t be released before 2017.
Al Swearengen,
D&D have already been told how it ends. They dont really need the book.