The results are in! Your guesses for Game of Thrones season 5 episode titles

Results Word Cloud

This is a guest post and survey by WotW reader James Rivers. 

About 400 of you responded to the Game of Thrones season 5 episode title survey. A nice turnout! And just as we closed this up, the first three episode titles leaked (and were confirmed by WatchersOnTheWall sources). To be on the safe side, we discounted any entries for those three episodes that were submitted afterward. The Episode 4 title leaked and was confirmed after the survey closed. Let’s see what we came up with!

Here are the titles for each episode given by at least five people. (Note that similar responses, like “Black and White” and “The House of Black and White,” were combined into one slot).

Spoilers note: We took care to avoid spilling outright spoilers below, like “This Character Dies!” or something. But naturally the suggested titles will hint at certain events, and the commentary talks around them, so Unsullied should proceed with caution.

Episode 1
1. Valonqar 177
2. The House of Black and White/Black and White 20
3. Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken 15
4. Across/Beyond the Narrow Sea 8
5. Lord Commander 6

“Valonqar” was by far the most given response for any single episode title. A lot of folks were suggesting it months ago for 0501, once it became clear that the season’s cold opening might involve the phrase in question. Alas, the only three people who “guessed” the actual Episode 1 title did so after the titles leaked. Oh, and though 400 or so replied total, only 300 or so guessed for a particular episode.

Episode 2
1. The House of Black and White/Black and White 81
2. Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken 27
3. No One 18
4. Sons of the Harpy 14
5. Sand Snakes 13
6. Sparrows/High Sparrow 10
7. Lord Commander 8
8. And Now His Watch Begins 6
9. Viper’s Nest / Other Viper Titles 6
10. Seven Pointed Star 5

No. 2 for No.1 was No.1 for No.2! If you follow. Indeed, there’s a lot of overlap from episode to episode (so at the the very bottom of this post will be a list of top overall responses for all 10 episodes combined), and few know exactly what plots will feature in what episodes. Still, these replies suggest folks think a big focus of the second episode will be the relatively new locales of Braavos and Dorne.

As it turns out, survey-takers were spot on for Episode 2.

Episode 3
1. Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken 45
2. Sons of the Harpy 27
3. High Sparrow/Sparrow/Sparrows 22
4. Seven Pointed Star 12
5. House of Black and White 11
5. No One 11
7. Sand Snakes 9
8. Seven-Pointed Star 7
8. The Sorrows 7
10. The Faith 5
10. Lord Commander 5
10. Faith Militant, similar 5
10. The Gift 5

The actual title, as Sue the Fury has confirmed, is “High Sparrow,” guessed by 11 folks before the news leaked overnight. Eleven others said the similar “Sparrow” or “Sparrows,” and related guesses like “Seven-Pointed Star” and “The Faith” also made appearances. The motto of House Martell continued to be popular, as did the name given to a group of people in Meereen.

Episode 4
1. Sons of the Harpy 40
2. Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken 37
3. The Sorrows 21
4. Sparrow etc 12
5. Sand Snakes 8
6. Cat of the Canals 7
6. Ghost in Winterfell 7
8. Lord Commander/Lord Crow/Something Spoilery 7
9. House of Black and White 6
9. Queenmaker 6
11. Faith Militant 5

These lists are starting to read like a week-to-week Billboard chart. If only Casey Kasem were still around. Rising to No.1 this week is “Sons of the Harpy” — which we’ve learned is in fact the correct title, good job folks! — while “Unbowed…” drops a notch to No. 2. This is what happens when we know a bunch of likely key plot points, but not which will feature where and when. We also have some debuts in the list (like No. 3, No. 9) that may rise higher for later episode guesses.

Episode 5
1. The Sorrows 48
2. Sons of the Harpy 28
3. Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken 19
4. Cat of the Canals 11
4. A Ghost in Winterfell/The Ghost of Winterfell 18
4. Queenmaker 11
7. No One 7
8. Words are Wind 5

Well there you go, a title that surfaced as a guess for Episode 4 is now leading the way for Episode 5 — even if book readers still wonder how “The Sorrows,” a certain city in Essos and the flow patterns of a waterway between them will all work out geographically on the show.

Episode 6
1. A Ghost in Winterfell/The Ghost of Winterfell 35
2. Queenmaker 24
3. The Sorrows 12
4. Sons of the Harpy 10
5. Cat of the Canals 9
6. Sand Snakes 8
7. The Fall 6
8. Hardhome 5
9. No One 5
10. Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken 5

And “The Sorrows” drops two spots to No.3 after a week at the top of the chart. Still a lot of repetition up and down the list, with variations involving Winterfell, which Unsullied will recall Ramsay and company riding toward at the close of Season 4, up top this time around. The “Ghost” in question is a spoiler, but hint, it’s not a direwolf. Close on its heels is the name given to a certain plot hatched elsewhere in the Seven Kingdoms, though whether or not we’ll see it adapted for TV is still anyone’s guess.

Episode 7
1. A Ghost in Winterfell/The Ghost of Winterfell 58
2. Queenmaker 21
3. Hardhome 16
4. Sons of the Harpy 10
5. Hear Me Roar 9
6. Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken 8
7. Pale Mare 5

“Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken” just won’t go away. Hehe. But “Ghost of Winterfell” heads the list for a second episode, with “Queenmaker” second once again. Since “Ghost…” has more votes here, and “Queenmaker” had three more last time, I listed them that way for the official “WOTW Fan Guesses” list down below. Meanwhile, “Hardhome” is moving up the list, and we’ve an appearance by a Essosene horse (of course; go right to the source).

Episode 8
1. Hardhome 81
2. A Ghost in Winterfell / The Ghost of Winterfell 22
3. The Walk / Walk of ____ 20
4. Dead Things in the Water / Dead Things 14
5. A Feast for Crows 10
6. Mercy 8
7. Shame/Penance/Atonement 7
7. Prince of Winterfell 7
9. Queenmaker 5

Knowledgeable fans expect certain events to occur sometime near season’s end. Close readers of this and other sites even likely know which episodes they happen in. Which likely explains “Hardhome” shooting to No.1 for this episode, and a related creepy phrase popping in at No.3. No.2 and one No.7 refer to another expected event…but will it occur in Episode 8? Same goes for the word “Mercy,” which again refers to a certain event. Look for this pattern to recur for our Episode 9 and 10 guesses. (And geez, we really do like the “Ghost of Winterfell” title, don’t we? Some people even repeated a Season 2 episode title in here. (And a Season 6 “Buffy” title too. Troika anyone?)

Episode 9
1. The Pit/Daznak/Daznak’s/Daznak’s Pit 107
2. The Walk / The Walk of ____ 99
3. A Dance with Dragons 26
4. Fire Made Flesh 10
4. For the Watch 10
6. Shame / Penance / Atonement 7
7. The Mortal Art 6
8. Lioness 5

Ah, Episode 9, historically the most insane of each season. The closely related “The Pit,” “Daznak’s Pit” and “Daznak’s” were closely bunched, in that order, and combined they just beat out various combinations of “The Walk (of something or other).” Those who’ve followed filming reports closely know that one of these is unlikely to be the title of Episode 9, given the related event allegedly occurs in a different episode. We also have the Book 5 title appearing on the list , after Book 4 showed up for Episode 8.

Episode 10
1. For the Watch 78
2. Winter/Winter Has Come 26
3. Daggers in the Dark 18
4. The Pit, etc. 15
5. The Winds of Winter 11
6. A Dance With Dragons 9
6. Mercy 9
8. Penance/Shame/Atonement 8
9. The Sword in the Darkness 6

Hard to say much here without spoiling things. Suffice to say that the top pick, along with at least one other beneath it, refer to an event that may or may not occur this season. And hey, look, there’s the Book 6 title showing up! (And for those still pining away for a certain “missing character” to show up, receiving a handful of submissions for multiple episodes was “Oathbreaker”…which could refer to a couple different folks, actually).

Finally, since a bunch of the same-guessed titles were spread across multiple episodes (here’s lookin’ at you, Martell Motto), here is everything that got at least 15 guesses overall (due to the complexities of sorting all this, the numbers may not *quite* match what’s listed if you add individual episodes in every single case). And I was more liberal with combining them:

Valonqar 187
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken 156
Sons of the Harpy 144
Ghost in/of Winterfell 137
House of Black and White/Black and White 127
Walk/Walk of ____ 126
The Pit/Daznak’s Pit 126
Hardhome 110
For the Watch 89
The Sorrows 87
Queenmaker 70
No One 56
High Sparrow/Sparrows 50
Sandsnakes 43
Mercy 34
A Dance with Dragons 33
Lord Commander 33
Seven Pointed Star 32
Cat of the Canals 31
Winter 28
A Feast For Crows 23
Daggers in the Dark 21
Words are Wind 20
Shame/Penance/Atonement 20
Hear Me Roar 19
Oathbreaker 19
Faith Militant etc. 17
Dead Things (in the Water) 15

So to sum up, the WatchersOnTheWall community’s leading blind-ish guesses at Season 5’s titles are:

0501: Valonqar
0502: The House of Black and White
0503: Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken
0504: Sons of the Harpy
0505: The Sorrows
0506: Queenmaker
0507: The Ghost of Winterfell
0508: Hardhome
0509: The Pit
0510: For the Watch

So far, we’re batting .500.

56 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. The community overall got 5×02 and 5×04 right, and many (though not most) got 5×03 right as well. We only met with disaster at 5×01 —most of us book readers were so sure of “Valonqar”, and we all failed spectacularly. But still, we did pretty great, didn’t we?! Now, I wonder if we’ll also guess some of the others correctly. I hope this article is updated when the rest start cropping up. I’m particularly hopeful about our most popular 5×07 to 5×10 guesses 😛

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    2. I feel like even if they are doing

      For the Watch

      this year, they wouldn’t be so obvious as to title it as the episode. But then they did title S1E9 as Baelor.

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    3. My top wishes for the remaining 6 titles :

      505 : Sorrows.
      506 : The Ghost of Winterfell.
      507 : Hear me Roar.
      508 : A Feast for Crows.
      509 : A Dance with Dragons.
      510 : Winter.

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    4. I’m fairly certain “Mercy” is going to be a late-season episode. It could coincide with a ton of plot points, since

      so many characters are standing on a knife’s edge by the end of ADWD and AFFC.
      Brienne’s non-execution could still happen in some form, the High Sparrow is going Dong Zhuo on King’s Landing, Tyrell and Lannister are all-out enemies, Cersei’s all but on the chopping block, Meereen is eating itself, the Others have begun their march, Jaime’s stumbled upon a southern coup, Theon could be in Stannis’s clutches, the Baratheon forces are in Napoleon-in-Russia mode, and Arya’s Winds material starts this season. That’s a hell of an episode 9-10.

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    5. ReekReek,

      You’re right, actually. We know for a fact Nutter directed the equivalent scene in the show, so it’s gonna be either in episode 9 or 10. However, I wouldn’t expect the episode to be called “Mercy.” There’s not gonna be a “Mercy” per se.

      We saw quite clearly that in the show equivalent of the “Mercy” chapter Arya is Cat of the Canals. She’s with her cart selling her wares when she spots Meryn Trant, who will most likely be her victim in the show instead of Raff.

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    6. jentario,

      I go back and forth on whether or not it will happen this season, if at all. I’m back to believing it will happen. Jon is the only major character ‘death’ that happens in books 4 and 5. Season 5 will pretty much cover both books. Unless they move up a major death from TWOW(which is possible), Jon is the only death that would shock viewers, and be “up there with the Red Wedding”(Sophie Turner’s words). Logistically speaking, it makes some sense to push it back to season 6, specifically not wanting to spoil whether Jon survives or is resurrected just by Kit Harrington showing up for filming. However, I feel the pros outweigh the con, and that it should be included in s5.

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    7. What were the most outrageous suggestions? I picked up Fat Pink Mast in the comments. My husband was proud of his “all hail the royal teats” , a direct line out of “Feast”

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    8. Since we’ve already had an episode titled “The Ghost of Harrenhall”, I doubt there will be an episode titled “The Ghost of Winterfell”, though it would mirror nicely another season 2 episode titled “The Price of Winterfell”.

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    9. Sue the Fury:
      I feel like even if they are doing

      this year, they wouldn’t be so obvious as to title it as the episode. But then they did title S1E9 as Baelor.

      But Baelor didn’t give anything away. Most show watchers didn’t even know who or what Baelor was, and if they did, it still wouldn’t have made sense beforehand. Naming the episode “For the Watch” is like calling the s3e9 “The Red Wedding” or “The Lannisters send their regards”.

      Ghost in winterfell, unbowed etc. and Queenmaker would make good titles. The rest? eh. I prefer titles to sound good, without giving anything away, and please no obvious things like a location or character name. Oh well.

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    10. My predictions mostly lined up with the consensus choices of the community, either as the top guess or one of the most popular alternatives – but that’s not much of a surprise because I didn’t really make any radical suggestions (with one exception). I correctly predicted “The House of Black and White” for Episode 2, and I also guessed “(The) Sons of the Harpy” would be a title, though I had it down for Episode 3 rather than Episode 4 (I considered it for 2 and 4 as well). I see that “Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken” was suggested for as many seven different episodes – that’s impressive (I predicted it for Episode 4). I considered “High Sparrow” and a few other Faith-related titles like The Seven-Pointed Star, but ultimately didn’t use any of them. As for the premiere, I was sailing off with most book readers on the doomed ship “Valonqar” 🙂 (For the record, I still think that term will be used in the show).

      I’m fully aligned with the consensus picks from the community for Episode 5 (“The Sorrows”) and Episode 8 (“Hardhome”), and on the same page with Episode 7 (“A Ghost in Winterfell” vs. “The Ghost of Winterfell”) and Episode 9 (“Daznak” vs. “The Pit”). I guessed “Cat of the Canals” for Episode 6, but I think “Queenmaker” is a very viable candidate as well.

      The only instance where my guess so completely diverged from the general consensus that it didn’t even make the five-vote cutoff was for Episode 10. Most people predicted “For the Watch” or something similar, and I agree that’s a strong candidate. However, I ultimately refrained from picking it for two reasons:

      I think that there’s a small chance that the event in question could be held for Season 6, and even if it does happen in Season 5, I’m skeptical that they would tip their hand about it so directly – although to be fair, “For the Watch” is less overt than something like “Daggers in the Dark”. I guessed “Blood of the Dragon” because whatever happens in the finale, I do think Daenerys will get a reasonable amount of screentime, and that title alludes to her decision to embrace her Targaryen heritage and finally turn her eyes towards Westeros – however far she actually takes it this year (I think that the show may speed things up considerably on that front). And from a certain angle, “Blood of the Dragon” could also refer to the same event that “For the Watch” does …

      Ultimately, outside of a few key events in King’s Landing, the finale is such a mystery to me at this point that I’m not overly confident in any potential prediction about what it will include or what the title will be. I have my theories, but I’m eager to find out the truth.

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    11. Sansational:
      What were the most outrageous suggestions? I picked up Fat Pink Mast in the comments. My husband was proud of his “all hail the royal teats” , a direct line out of “Feast”

      Hehe. I will try to add some in the comments here later on!

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    12. Sue the Fury,

      I think the difference with this and Baelor (or The Rains of Castamere) is that every book reader knew the latter were going to happen the in Show, no question. There’s a lot more uncertainty about FTW, so I think regardless of whether it’s happening they’ll try to keep the suspense up for Sullied by giving no hints in the titles.

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    13. I’m surprised no one has mentioned “Ser Robert Strong” instead of Walk of _____. It’s vague, as opposed to the latter and I for one think it’s a possible alternative for the episode name.

      Also I will not be surprised to see an episode titled behind, or alluding to, Sansa in the latter-half of the season. As everything she’ll be doing is new to us, and thus she wasn’t even considered for any of the episode names (but I think it’s worth mentioning).

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    14. OK, here’s some of the fun submissions. They are definitely very spoiler-laden, perhaps even for folks who have read the books but don’t know spoilers on what is to happen or not happen this season.

      GRRM will never finish the books
      i hate this show
      One Where Jon Gets Stabbed in the Face
      Surprise, Meryn F–king Trant.
      All hail the royal teats!
      Arya Kills Everyone
      i wish stannis could burn d&d
      Oh we forgot about the North
      They’re behind you!!
      Sansa’s Plotline goes to Sh-t
      Tyrion meets Dany but not Victarion
      Vengeance, Fire and Blood. Also Tacos. Sorry Was This Our Grocery List?
      You can go hard or you can Hardhome
      Dude, Where’s Arianne?
      F–king Jaime get the F–k Outta Dorne
      Lancel and Osmund Kettlleblack and moon boy
      Pit of Fire That Only LOOKS Like a Bull Ring
      Fat pink mass
      Hear Me Rant About Book Minutia
      Jamie and Bronn’s Wild Ride
      Sweetrobin, I am your mother
      Valar Episodis
      wind from manderly’s mouth, the
      Brienne and Pod’s amazingly uncut adventure
      Jonathan Snow and the Stags feat Onion Master D
      Sam’s and Gilly’s Incredible Sea Trip
      Snakes on a plain
      We Do Not Sew Because Thread Is Not Part of Our Agriculture-less Culture
      Wildlings in His Room, Wildlings in His Privy, Wildlings in His Soup
      Maybe Incest is not Best?
      O hai Brienne

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    15. I thought a couple reliable sources confirmed that Jon wasn’t getting stabbed in a mutiny at Castle Black but rather was going to be left behind by deserters NW when the White Walkers take Hardhome.

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    16. lol,

      I think it was more like a source speculated that? I don’t think there’s proof, unless we know Hardhome falls in 9 or 10. The Thenn in the trailer with the axe, I think Greenjones figured out what episode he’s in.

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    17. SpoilerTV has posted the HBO’s official summaries for Episodes 1-3. I posted this link on the other thread as well.

      — Episode #41: “The Wars to Come”:

      Cersei and Jaime adjust to a world without Tywin. Varys reveals a conspiracy to Tyrion. Dany faces a new threat to her rule. Jon is caught between two kings. (Written by David Benioff & D. B. Weiss; directed by Michael Slovis.) (TV-MA) [AC, AL, GV, N] ESP Playdates: 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 and 24

      — Episode #42: “The House of Black and White”:

      Arya arrives in Braavos. Pod and Brienne run into trouble on the road. Cersei fears for her daughter’s safety in Dorne as Ellaria Sand seeks revenge for Oberyn’s death. Stannis tempts Jon. An adviser tempts Dany. (Written by David Benioff & D. B. Weiss; directed by Michael Slovis.) (TVMA) [AC, AL, V] ESP Playdates: 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24 and 25

      — Episode #43: “High Sparrow”:

      In Braavos, Arya sees the Many-Faced God. In King’s Landing, Queen Margaery enjoys her new husband. Tyrion and Varys walk the Long Bridge of Volantis. (Written by David Benioff & D. B. Weiss; directed by Mark Mylod.) (TV-MA) [AC, AL, GV, N] ESP Playdates: 26, 27, 28, 29 and 30

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    18. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      I think Hardhome will be the climax for Jon. Maybe he “dies” there. I don’t see how they’ll manage to fit Jon’s return to Castle Black and all the set up for the Pink Letter and the stabbing in two episodes (and that’s assuming the Wall appears in episode 9, which I don’t think they will). My guess is that after Hardhome, the next time we see Jon and his storyline is when he let’s the Wildlings rescued at Hardhome pass beyond the Wall to set up season 6. Then For the Watch can happen very early in season 6 (a la Joffrey’s wedding) or it won’t happen at all because fake deaths suck.

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    19. jentario,

      I don’t see how the letter is necessary at all.

      It’d be impossible to have the letter this season, unless they’re showing events out of sequence for the first time ever. In the books it happens quite often; this was one of those times —Jon’s last chapter in ADWD takes place more than a week after Theon’s first chapter in TWOW. The other possibility is that the Battle of Ice and the subsequent taking of Winterfell will all happen in season five, which not even I think is possible (and I’m one of the few who thinks the Battle of Ice —that is, Stannys vs Freys at the village between the frozen lakes— will happen this season.) Bowen Marsh & company kills Jon because of a number of events that pile up; Jon’s reaction to the Pink Letter (and the revelations of the later, too) was nothing more than the final insult to Marsh. Any other wildling-related incident can have the same result in the show.

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    20. Jared,

      Looks like they’re keeping Stannis’s offer. Good. I’m betting Mance gets “burned” in the premiere for not co-operating (judging by the pyre in the trailer, this description and the clip we got from The Sight), then the election happens in episode 2.

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    21. Great news on the episode descriptions. As is the case every season, the descriptions are not a complete listing of every storyline the episode touches on. In fact, there often are updated listings with a couple other sentences added closer to airdates (often with info that can’t be revealed until certain earlier episodes are aired).

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    22. Luka Nieto,

      Marsh may have disagreed with Jon on a day-to-day basis, but that wasn’t enough to push him over the line and assassinate Jon. He decided to assassinate Jon only when it was clear that Jon being alive was a direct threat to the Night’s Watch (Ramsay outright said so in the letter- Jon’s affiliation with the Starks, Mance and Stannis are the reason why Ramsay threatens to attack and destroy the Night’s Watch) and because of that a direct threat to everyone in Westeros (no Night’s Watch, no defense against the White Walkers). It doesn’t help that Jon’s reaction is vow-breaking- he plans to meet Ramsay head on in battle with the Wildlings, which essentially means he’s throwing the Night’s Watch into the conflicts of the South and into a battle which they simply can’t win (Stannis had an organized army with cavalry and even he, to Marsh’s knowledge, lost the battle).

      Point is, if the show simplifies Marsh’s (or Thorne or whoever) reasoning for the stabbing to just “I don’t like Wildlings”, it’ll be a damned shame. And that’s why I don’t think Jon gets assassinated this season (along with the fact that they added Hardhome near the end of the season, which to me says that they needed a climax for the Wall storyline). Maybe it’ll happen next season, maybe never.

      And on the “Battle of Ice”… Do you seriously think the show will include two battles? I’d imagine they’ll combine the Battle of Ice and the battle of Winterfell for budget reasons and it either happens this season, or it doesn’t (the whole thing). The only reason to keep the battles separated is if they want to do the Stannis-fake-death angle with the Pink Letter and all.

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    23. Luka Nieto,

      I thought so too, but it fits there. It’s kind of a neat wrap up to that arc before moving on to the Wall politics. I guess Mance will resurface earlier too (maybe around episode 5 or 6?) because he’s supposed to have more screentime this season.

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    24. Luka Nieto:

      Episode 1 is a bit early for that, isn’t it?

      Honestly, I was expecting it to happen in the middle of the season.

      If the Mance and Stannis conversations with Jon are happening in E1 (regarding Stannis wanting Mance to kneel and Mance refusing) then I don’t see how they can hold off on Mance’s “punishment” for much longer afterwards. E1 or E2 sounds about right.

      And if Jon’s getting tempted by Stannis in E2 (ie offered Winterfell), then the election would probably be going down later in that episode as well, which would coincide with the script leaks that indicate the election is done pretty quickly very early on.

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    25. King Tommen,

      The leaked summary said that

      Stannis’s offer and demand was at the end of the first episode. So it can’t be episode one. It could be episode 2… but I don’t think so, personally.

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    26. Luka Nieto:
      King Tommen,

      The leaked summary said that Stannis’s offer and demand was at the end of the first episode. So it can’t be episode one. It could be episode 2… but I don’t think so, personally.

      I’m not sure why they would hold that until mid-season if they’re in direct conflict on it in the first episode. Mance refuses Stannis’ demand to kneel so they wait four episodes before doing anything about it? Not sure why that would be the case.

      Also, the trailer has guys like Slynt and Thorne all there at Mance’s burning and I don’t think those guys are going to be hanging around too much longer after Jon’s elected

      Edit: Also, as we know, scenes are often pushed forwards and backwards into other episodes after filming. The E1 episode description states Jon is pulled between 2 kings which indicates he has the conversation with Mance we see in the Sight video after Stannis tasks him with getting Mance to kneel. That could be near the end of the episode or they decided to close off the whole Mance deal in E1. Or it could be in E2, but clearly they’re spending time in getting through that plot early on.

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    27. King Tommen,

      It’s also a pretty big moment to open up the season with (in an almost uneventful episode).

      It just makes sense to get that out of the way before beginning the new arc at the Wall (Jon’s choice, becoming LC, the relationship with Stannis and Mel, beheading Slynt and eventually Hardhome and the Wildling issue). As you said, having the confrontations regarding Mance happen in the premiere and then delaying the punishment till after Jon becomes LC makes no sense.

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    28. Oh, mine were a load of rubbish! Mind you they were just wild guesses. From the results there are some astute guessers in the community though.

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    29. mariamb,

      Yes, these summaries are very consistent with all of the filming reports and rumors that we’ve compiled so far.

      Pretty much all of the significant events that the summaries allude to – Tywin’s funeral, Stannis making his offer to Jon, Tyrion and Varys arriving in Volantis – are right where we had deduced that they would be. The summaries also confirm a few things that we suspected but didn’t know for certain – for instance, the news that Arya won’t actually reach Braavos until Episode 2 (if she appears in the premiere at all, it will be on the boat, which I don’t think is all that likely) and that Dorne will be introduced in that episode as well.

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    30. jentario,

      I would disagree in many ways. Hodor’s Bastard aptly labels

      Marsh’s gang as the “nationalists.” More than anything else, it is about the Wildlings. Marsh simply cannot get it out of his head that the Wildlings are the real enemy. Periodically, he remembers that the Watch and the Wildlings have a greater common enemy than the each other: the White Walkers. But he then defaults back to “we really need to kill all of these Wildlings.” If the show does not make it clear that saving the Wildlings is the #1 reason for the assassination attempt, then the show will be deviating from the books.

      I suspect that book readers who think that it was much more than this are wrong. For one thing, I really doubt that the stabbing was not planned well in advance: it happened then because Jon forced the issue. Now, I do not doubt that Bowen (who seems to be fairly simple-minded) thinks that Jon’s response to Ramsay’s war declaration is an abrogation from their vows. However, just as Bowen cannot comprehend that the Wildlings are not the real enemy, someone like Bowen would not be able to comprehend that not meeting Ramsay would also be an abrogation from their vows. Yes, the Watch are not supposed to get involved in the realms affairs: but that ignores the possibility of a Westerosian lord attacking the Watch. In theory, the rest of Westeros should be helping out because that Lord or Lady is essentially committing an act of civil defiance: but it is obvious that this is not going to happen in this case.

      And, of course, there is also the interpretation of “neutrality.” One interpretation is that a Kingdom with 2+ claimants to the throne, a truly neutral party should treat both (each) of them as kings/queens until the rest of the country sorts it out. That is the one that Jon takes. However, as Jon notes, Tywin Lannister (and Bowen Marsh) take the other one: you treat the one on the throne as the “true” king and the rest as enemies of the realm.

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    31. Wimsey,

      I’ll give it a try:

      Marsh & his cohorts are a bunch of nationalistic assholes blinded by their hate of the wildlings, so much so that they miss the real enemy completely. Because they’re idiots —the typical consequence of nationalism. How does that sound?

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    32. Wimsey,

      We won’t know for sure until TWOW comes out, but here’s why I think you’re entirely wrong: Bowen Marsh cries during the assassination. Clearly, it’s not something he enjoys and not something he wanted to do at all.

      Bowen Marsh, pre-stabbing, never seemed like the kind of character to plan an assassination on his LC, nor did he seem ambitious. He was just normal. Assassinating Jon before the Pink Letter would have earned him nothing, really. It would have sparked a war between the remaining Night’s Watch and the Wildlings which wouldn’t have ended well for Marsh especially (since he is the actual assassin, and the Wildlings- who are faithful to Jon- would specifically target him). Killing Jon is essentially suicide, as well as completely destabilizing the situation at the Wall.

      So why risk it? Because Marsh had no choice. Ramsay, in his letter, commanded Jon to bring him Reek and “Arya” as well as Melisandre and a bunch of other things that Jon simply can’t give him, and if Jon doesn’t do it- Ramsay promises to march on the Night’s Watch. And since Jon doesn’t really have Arya and Theon… they’re fucked. All because Jon sent Mance to get his sister back from what was now her husband Ramsay. Ramsay sees this (after capturing and probably torturing Mance), on top of Jon’s continuous support of Stannis at the Wall and his Stark heritage, and he marks Jon Snow as an enemy that needs to be dealt with.

      Marsh isn’t stupid- he knows that Ramsay doesn’t give a shit about the Night’s Watch. All Ramsay cares about is Jon Snow. Killing Jon on the pretense of his vow-breaking allows the NW to reopen diplomatic relations with Ramsay and prevent the complete destruction/slaughtering of the order- which allows them to continue defending the realm from the White Walkers.

      If it would have been planned from the start, the assassins would have found a more conveniant spot to do the stabbing than in the middle of a crowd of Wildlings (including a fucking murderous giant who happens to be Jon’s BFF). Odds are that Marsh and his fellow murderers are dead now- and they knew the risk. Which is why they were crying- for Jon’s sake and for theirs. Marsh and his friends decide to sacrifice both their own lives and Jon Snow’s for the better sake of the Night’s Watch and the realm.

      Sure, it helps that Marsh disagrees with every decision Jon made. It helps that he believes Jon is more Wildling than Night’s Watch. But he would never have killed Jon on that basis alone. Marsh isn’t a “bad guy”. He made a rash decision in a moment of stress, kind of a last hope to prevent Ramsay from destroying them.

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    33. There is a scene in ADwD before the pink letter arrives where Jon meets with Bowen, Yarwyck and Cellador on top of the Wall and Jon gives the impression to the reader that he knows that all of these men are on the edge of rebelling against him (especially Marsh) as a result of his pact with the Wildlings. It is a very easy step to take to posit that after this conversation which he is bitterly opposed by all of his supposed top advisors and only concludes with him pulling rank on them that they would look to plot against his ousting.

      They are furious with him and oppose everything he is doing with respect to the Wildlings to the point of open rebellion. They only are resisting this by sheer force of the tradition of the Watch’s leadership hierarchy. Upon re-read of this chapter it is very clear that Jon as NW leader is on borrowed time during this scene.

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    34. jentario: here’s why I think you’re entirely wrong:

      Bowen Marsh cries during the assassination. Clearly, it’s not something he enjoys and not something he wanted to do at all.

      So? My hypothesis makes no predictions about that one way or the other. If I am right, then Bowen Marsh might still have been upset to have had to carry out the task. So, that is no evidence against my conclusion.

      jentario: Marsh.

      isn’t stupid- he knows that Ramsay doesn’t give a shit about the Night’s Watch.

      Actually, Marsh is very stupid. Oh, he can count: but he cannot think. Remember, Mance uses Marsh’s stupidity to his advantage by sending out feints against the Wall. Also, the fact that Marsh cannot help but to default to “let’s kill Wildlings” is a definite sign of inferior intelligence: he cannot comprehend that dead Wildlings are recruits for the White Walkers, or that they Watch just does not have the manpower to do this.

      As for what Marsh makes of the Pink Letter, well, who knows? Marsh is not very intelligent and he certainly cannot work out the subtleties of it. Whether Marsh has any idea of what a threat Ramsay actually represents to him and the rest of the Watch is difficult to gauge. Obviously, an intelligent person in Marsh’s position would have learned enough to know that Ramsay is a huge threat to the Watch: but we are talking about Bowen Marsh here. However, dumb people like Marsh lack the ability to see broader patterns: and as Marsh has a hard time seeing anyone but Wildings as the enemy, and as he probably cannot comprehend a Westerosian Lord breaking the laws of Westeros to this extent, Marsh probably does not take Ramsay seriously. (He would almost deserve the flaying that Ramsay would give him while demanding to know where Arya and Reek are!) However, that is speculation.

      jentario: If it would have been planned from the start,

      the assassins would have found a more conveniant spot to do the stabbing than in the middle of a crowd of Wildlings (including a fucking murderous giant who happens to be Jon’s BFF).

      Because Jon is about to leave: and if they do not strike then and there, then the opportunity is lost. That is why it was rushed. Remember, Marsh might be dumb, but he is also methodical. Something so spontaneous would be outside of his abilities. One should not be surprised then to see him blunder tactically here the same way that he blundered tactically when trying to hold the bridge against the Weeper.

      King Tommen: They are

      furious with him and oppose everything he is doing with respect to the Wildlings to the point of open rebellion. They only are resisting this by sheer force of the tradition of the Watch’s leadership hierarchy. Upon re-read of this chapter it is very clear that Jon as NW leader is on borrowed time during this scene.

      True. And it is important to remember that Marsh considers letting the Wildlings through to be complete treason. Again, with his limited intellectual facilities, he does not comprehend that keeping them out is bigger treason because one way or another they are going to get through: either as living men, or as wights controlled by the White Walkers.

      However, Marsh probably also is aware of the fact that Jon seems to be very popular with the rank-and-file. Still, it’s hard to say what that would mean: Marsh clearly is not a “people person,” and it’s not obvious how he would expect other NW people to react.

      My suspicion is that Marsh had been trying to persuade the head builder to join in him this for a while (probably when Jon was supposed to leave for Hardhome), and that he had to accelerate the plan when Jon announced an early departure to stop Ramsay. Possibly we will find out in Winter.

      Of course, what I am really keen to see is: just what are Melisandre and Selyse going to do? I mean, there is the obvious: but I cannot think that they are going to put up with this for very long!

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    35. Please D&fuckingD, just leave it. Name episode 10 “WINTER”. It sounds ominous relative to the show`s/books` most famous quote, it`s “cool” (heh) that winter is finally upon us, it can refer to the FTW show equivalent, and the literal weather we`ll be seeing. It`s just the perfect title.

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    36. I don’t think for a second it’ll happen, but I think it’d be cool to have one titled,

      “Good Dragon Men”

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    37. Wimsey,

      I would have summed all of that up with… of course Bowen Marsh is stupid. Isn’t it obvious? He’s tremendously stupid. Annoyingly so, for me at least! His stupidity was so great it was frustrating to read him gabble.

      They’ve got a new Lord Commander, a true diplomat who’s forged a historic and rather unlikely alliance between age-old enemies; a man of vision with enough long-term thinking to conclude that not letting the wildlings through is an even greater treason than the alternative, since it would give the White Walkers an even bigger army… and Marsh kills him. Of course he’s bloody stupid. He’s so blinded by his nationalistic stupidity that he cannot see three minutes beyond his incredibly moronic act of assassination; or see the long-term goal that the murdered in question had in mind, for that matter.

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    38. Luka Nieto,

      You are much more succinct than I am! It is the curse of science: if you cannot justify it, then we rarely are allowed to print it.

      But I think that you hit a really big nail on the head: the lack of foresight. But even that is not evidence that this was an impetuous act: people like “Swampy” just assume that things will return to “the good old days” as soon as the irritant is removed. That there can be no going back is something he probably will die never understanding.

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    39. All ten episode titles are out, and 7 out of 10 were predicted by fans.
      1. The Wars to Come (No way we could predict that)
      2. The House of Black and White (winner!)
      3. High Sparrow (got 50 overall votes)
      4. Sons of the Harpy (Another winner)
      5. Kill the Boy (my favorite title, and its from the books, yet no one saw that coming. Good job, Bryan Cogman!)
      6. Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken (Everyone knew this was going to be an episode title)
      7. The Gift (No votes)
      8. Hardhome (Spot on!)
      9. Dance of Dragons (Dance with Dragons was a popular title)
      10. Mother’s Mercy. (Mercy also got quite a number of votes. I personally think ‘Mercy’ sounds more powerful than ‘Mother’s Mercy’, unless they have Lady Stoneheart after all, but whatever.)

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