Synopses for Game of Thrones Episodes 501-503

GOT S5 - PosterThe episode synopses for the first three episodes of the season have surfaced today, just after the revealing of the titles of episodes 501-504.

Courtesy of SpoilerTV and HBO, the descriptions of the episodes are:

  • Season 5 Episode 1:The Wars to Come”: Cersei and Jaime adjust to a world without Tywin. Varys reveals a conspiracy to Tyrion. Dany faces a new threat to her rule. Jon is caught between two kings. (Written by David Benioff & D. B. Weiss; directed by Michael Slovis.) (TV-MA) [AC, AL, GV, N] ESP Playdates: 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 and 24
  • Season 5 Episode 2: “The House of Black and White”: Arya arrives in Braavos. Pod and Brienne run into trouble on the road. Cersei fears for her daughter’s safety in Dorne as Ellaria Sand seeks revenge for Oberyn’s death. Stannis tempts Jon. An adviser tempts Dany. (Written by David Benioff & D. B. Weiss; directed by Michael Slovis.) (TVMA) [AC, AL, V] ESP Playdates: 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24 and 25
  • Season 5 Episode 3:High Sparrow”: In Braavos, Arya sees the Many-Faced God. In King’s Landing, Queen Margaery enjoys her new husband. Tyrion and Varys walk the Long Bridge of Volantis. (Written by David Benioff & D. B. Weiss; directed by Mark Mylod.) (TV-MA) [AC, AL, GV, N] ESP Playdates: 26, 27, 28, 29 and 30

UPDATE: 3/23/15: HBO has released the synopses for the first three episodes officially, and they are identical to these, confirming the leaked info.

Sue the Fury: What do you make of these? The usual mix of overly general, inscrutable and intriguing. Arya sees the Many-Faced God? Hmmm. And I’m not surprised to see the show’s Ellaria seeking revenge for some reason but it is a significant change from the book’s Ellaria who pointedly refuses to seek revenge.

202 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. Great news on the episode descriptions. As is the case every season, the descriptions are not a complete listing of every storyline the episode touches on. In fact, there often are updated listings with a couple other sentences added closer to airdates (often with info that can’t be revealed until certain earlier episodes are aired).

        Quote  Reply

    2. So Tyrion is in Volantis by episode 3, and it sounds like

      Stannis will be offering to make Jon Lord of Winterfell in Episode 2.

        Quote  Reply

    3. So Margaery ‘enjoying her new husband’ is consummating the marriage, right? Or are they being tricky on purpose?

        Quote  Reply

    4. Brandone,

      Hart to tell. It could just as easily be Maergery enjoying his company-and teaching him how to act like a King.

      Definitely sounds like Arianne’s attempts at Queenmaking will be transferred to Ellaria and the sand snakes.

      Looking forward to road-tripping Varys and Tyrion together.

      Still no mention of Sansa, Baelish or the Vale…YET.

        Quote  Reply

    5. Is the full press release out, with the full-season summary and the list of series regulars/recurring players for the season? I’d really like to know which cast members, besides Nathalie Emmanuel and Michiel Huisman, have been upgraded to main cast for Season 5.

        Quote  Reply

    6. Right, so the first 3 episodes are written by DnD. Wonder which ones are Cogman and Hill. I would have to assume that 9 and 10 will be DnD as well. Do we know if Cogman has two episodes this year?

      Seeing as Ellaria is such a minor character in the books I don’t see it as a problem personally. I welcome that change.

        Quote  Reply

    7. So Tommen and Margaery will get hitched in episode 2 or 3 most likely.

      Was hoping for a Theon/Ramsay/Roose tidbit but oh well.

        Quote  Reply

    8. kanin,

      Well, it is the second time that

      the writers have completely rewritten one of GRRM’s pacificist characters to make her bent on revenge (the first being Catelyn). That whole thematic element has simply been removed from the story.

        Quote  Reply

    9. silent sister,

      Sure, I thought it was fairly obvious A:s role gets split between Ellaria and the Sand Snakes. I’d say a pretty good adaptation choice, when you’ve got an actress the calibre of Indira Varma.

        Quote  Reply

    10. Winnief:
      Brandone,

      Hart to tell.It could just as easily be Maergery enjoying his company-and teaching him how to act like a King.

      Definitely sounds like Arianne’s attempts at Queenmaking will be transferred to Ellaria and the sand snakes.

      Looking forward to road-tripping Varys and Tyrion together.

      Still no mention of Sansa, Baelish or the Vale…YET.

      “Brienne and Pod run into trouble on the road” in E2 is referring to them coming upon Sansa and LF while on their Vale goodwill tour. They wouldn’t spoil that in the description but the leaks have already confirmed this happening very early in the season

        Quote  Reply

    11. LordDavos:
      Shame about Ellaria because she has agood speech in the books about revenge. Maybe someone else will say it

      Agreed. I loved her speech in the book.

        Quote  Reply

    12. Also, so much for Episode 3 having no violence or nudity. Had a feeling that was an error. Graphic Violence and Nudity. That’s more like it.

        Quote  Reply

    13. Varys is still with Tyrion in Volantis? And in episode 3?? Wow. I wonder what will happen to him in the series… I hope it will be as in the book and I hope he will not be one of the “surprises” of S5…

        Quote  Reply

    14. kanin:
      Right, so the first 3 episodes are written by DnD. Wonder which ones are Cogman and Hill. I would have to assume that 9 and 10 will be DnD as well. Do we know if Cogman has two episodes this year?

      Yeah, Cogman wrote two episodes this season, and Hill got the episode that would have gone to George R.R. Martin in previous years. I have a hunch that Cogman may have written Episode 4 (“The Sons of the Harpy”) but that’s purely speculation on my part. I agree that Benioff and Weiss almost certainly wrote both Episode 9 and the finale.

        Quote  Reply

    15. As expected and suggested by the trailer, Ellaria takes the role of Arianne.

      Looking forward (not really) to some book readers saying D&D have “butchered Ellaria’s character”, despite the fact that she’s simply taking the role and the attitudes of a more major character these same fans really like and criticize D&D for cutting. Never heard of adaptation amalgamation, apparently.

      Oh well…

        Quote  Reply

    16. Things are getting really exciting now! 🙂 Season 5 is coming soon!
      B and W writing the first three episodes? Isn’t that a lot to begin with?
      “Dany faces a new threat to her rule. Jon is caught between two kings.”
      “Stannis tempts Jon. An adviser tempts Dany.”
      The journeys that Jon and Dany are on this season, seem similar (obviously not on the surface). How to be an effective ruler, while integrating marginal people?

      Brienne and Pod coming across the Vale threesome – I hope nothing bad happens this soon to them. Good to know there’s quite a bit of Varys and Tyrion together.

        Quote  Reply

    17. Sean C.: *Stannis seductively removes his clothes*

      It is known.

      And also, episode 3 is literally “High Sparrow” and there is no real mention/hint of him in the descrption… like, not even something as “Cersei meets an important figure *or insert a cryptic descrption of him here*”.
      This is tricky; if I were a non book reader I’d have no clue about who this High Sparrow could be and the synopses would not even help me trying to figure it out.

        Quote  Reply

    18. Luka Nieto,

      That will be fun. You hit the nail on the head here.
      My other issue with people saying that, is that she is essentially a non-character. She’s in 3 chapters, 2 of which she’s barely in and the last of which where she delivers a a heavy handed monologue about how vengeance is bad. Patchface features in the books more than her. So does Dick Crabb.

        Quote  Reply

    19. Sean C.: *Stannis seductively removes his clothes*

      I see something closer to red skin, horns, a red cape and a trident with Jon on a mountain, myself.

        Quote  Reply

    20. LordDavos,

      Sean C.,

      It is too soon to say Ellaria was changed.

      She seems to be taking over role of Arianne and Arianne was revengful first and regretful later. She can still have her speech at the end of the season.

        Quote  Reply

    21. days:
      What do they mean by “Arya sees the many-faced god”? I don’t remember this.

      The Facelessmen worship the many-faced god. And she does see them in the books. If I remember correctly they have lots of statues of different gods in the books

        Quote  Reply

    22. Luka Nieto: Never heard of adaptation amalgamation, apparently.

      Sure they have! They then will rant about how evil those ideas are…. 😀

      Seriously, though, this seems like a smart idea:

      I had thought that Trystane would take on all of Arianne’s roles, but now I think that he and Ellaria will be splitting them. And, why not: if you have an actress of Indira Varma’s caliber signed onto the show, then it is a total waste to not make her character a prominent one. And you know that GRRM’s Rome fanboy vibes are being stoked by this, too! (He probably is writing some truly lurid bedroom scenes for Indira, I mean, Ellaria in Winds now…..) 😉

      gewa76: Ep2 has lots of temptation!

      Hmm: is it Easter that week?

        Quote  Reply

    23. Wimsey,

      Yes, it’s great that they will make more use of Varma than a strict adaptation would allow. Also, at least for me, Ellaria leading three Sand Snakes is more interesting than Arianne leading a group which includes Dornish Batman. He is “of the night”! In case you hadn’t heard the previous thousand times.

      Still, I doubt Trystane will take Arianne’s role in any way, not even shared. As I see it, Ellaria and the Sand Snakes (one of which is her daughter in the show, and the two others still step-daughters of a kind) will take the role of Arianne (well, Arianne and her many cohorts.) I see Trystane more as… well, Trystane in the books, except on-screen, and maybe with a twist or two —maybe something akin to the role of Quentyn or Young Griff. But that’s a big “maybe.”

      Moka,

      Illyrio’s manse is going to appear, that much we know. It’s even glimpsed in the trailer, and was named specifically by a producer in “A Day in the Life.” Whether Illyrio himself will be back is still a mystery, but it would make sense, wouldn’t it? They’re going to his house. The Griffs are definitely out, though.

        Quote  Reply

    24. Great to have the descriptions – we’re getting so close to the premiere. I can’t wait!

      Now if only we could figure out if we are getting a trailer tomorrow…

        Quote  Reply

    25. GaiusB,

      I don’t think it is too soon to say they have changed elements of Ellaria’s character, but I’ve thought for a while just because she starts out vengeful in the show, it doesn’t mean she stays that way. In fact, starting her out on a more vengeful note and possibly watching her change her mind, for whatever reason

      maybe a little time just helps her see more clearly, or some plan or plot going awry may make her rethink her desire for revenge

      could be a great arc, and an actress of Varma’s caliber could certainly pull it off. It would also offer an opportunity for her speech from the book, or something like it, to still happen.

        Quote  Reply

    26. Luka Nieto,

      I share opinion with Wimsey in this case.

      I find very likely that Trystane like Arianne will be rebelious heir with dady issues and he will be also promised to Targaryen same as her. Rest of Arianne role will be given to Ellaria with exception of her seductivness which will be given to Tyene.

        Quote  Reply

    27. days,

      The God of Many Faces is death itself, and we know from casting calls that they were looking for minor characters coming to the temple to be given the gift of death. Arya probably sees them in episode 3.

        Quote  Reply

    28. Jon felt his pulse quicken. “We shouldn’t” he said. “We should” Stannis whispered. He raised his hand slowly and gently ran his fingers across Jon’s lips. “Now bend the knee”. Jon did as he was ordered.

        Quote  Reply

    29. Interesting synopses, thanks for posting. So I guess it’s official that Arya won’t be in episode 1.

      “In Braavos, Arya sees the Many-Faced God.”

      So Jaqen finally takes that bath? 😉

        Quote  Reply

    30. Stannis tempts Jon

      “The Red Woman can bend any man to her will but even she can’t shake…like…this.”

      *2 minutes of Stannis enthusiastically doing Westerosi version of twerking while Jon backs slowly out of the room*

        Quote  Reply

    31. Moka,

      He has not but if the character was included this season, he would presumably be there to simply greet Varys and Tyrion at his home, reveal his part in the plotting with Varys and then see them off the following episode with Varys accompanying Tyrion on the road as opposed to Illyrio.

      Whether or not that takes place, nothing that’s mentioned in these synopses would disprove or confirm that.

        Quote  Reply

    32. wizardeyes:
      Jon felt his pulse quicken. “We shouldn’t” he said. “We should” Stannis whispered. He raised his hand slowly and gently ran his fingers across Jon’s lips. “Now bend the knee”. Jon did as he was ordered.

      I guess I’ll never be able to hear Stannis ordering someone to bend the knee again without laughing hysterically. Thanks.

        Quote  Reply

    33. I hope “Queen Margaery enjoys her new husband” is merely a poor choice of wording. Paedo Margaery is not a direction the show needs to go in!

        Quote  Reply

    34. Kyle,

      I think it was pretty much confirmed that, that guy was just trolling, but still in terms of hbo schedule it would make sense to launch it this sunday, considering last year the 2nd trailer came out 5 weeks after the 1st. And guess what, toomorrow is exactly 5 weeks since we’ve got the 1st one so I still have some hope… The thing is that there wasn’t an anouncement, and that’s what worries me

        Quote  Reply

    35. TheTouchOfFrost,
      I understand your point, but they’ve made Tommen older in the show so anything can happen, if you think about the medieval times, it was perfectly normal for even younger kings than him to fuck their queens. Don’t want to sound gross but that’s just the human nature guided by the beliefs of that time

        Quote  Reply

    36. “In King’s Landing, Queen Margaery enjoys her new husband”

      ¬¬ Sex scene!! xDDD 😛

      If Tommen dies this season then I think he’ll have no regrets 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    37. TheTouchOfFrost:
      I hope“Queen Margaery enjoys her new husband” is merely a poor choice of wording. Paedo Margaery is not a direction the show needs to go in!

      Why pedo? Marg is supposed to be 17 and Tommen 14 or 15 (in the series). Many real medieval kings lost their virginity at this age or even younger… And since Tommen’s actor is a underage, we won’t see him engaged in sex scenes…

      But this debate is strange, the synopses just said “she enjoys her husband”, there are many ways to enjoy someone’s company without refering to sex… I read the same comments when Marg visited Tommen’s bedroom in S4, people were calling her a pedophile while the scene was just sweet and sometimes funny, he’s just a kid. Some people see bad things everywhere! 😮

        Quote  Reply

    38. wizardeyes:
      Jon felt his pulse quicken. “We shouldn’t” he said. “We should” Stannis whispered. He raised his hand slowly and gently ran his fingers across Jon’s lips. “Now bend the knee”. Jon did as he was ordered.

      King Tommen:
      Stannis tempts Jon

      “The Red Woman can bend any man to her will but even she can’t shake…like…this.”

      *2 minutes of Stannis enthusiastically doing Westerosi version of twerking while Jon backs slowly out of the room*

      *bows down to both of you*

        Quote  Reply

    39. kanin,

      True. Hopefully it will remain as subtle as that.

      Jofrey’s Cunt,

      Moka,

      I’ve not got massive objections to it from a storyline perspective as (as you’ve pointed out) it would be common place in the medieval-based societies in which GoT takes place (much like murder, torture and rape) just can do without the shit storm of controversy it might cause.
      Then again, no one seems to care as much when it’s a woman having sex with an underage boy yet the other way around and the lynch mobs are out! Sex with minors is wrong whatever the gender but some people’s attitudes (mainly men) to recent cases of female teachers having sex with male pupils is pretty disturbing.

        Quote  Reply

    40. About woman/boy versus man/girl sex…it IS different in a sense. Being penetrated is much more intimate, makes one much more vulnerable…it’s also something you can achieve forcefully with much less effort. So it’s a false equivalency IMHO.

      Let me be clear, we’re talking about 14/15 year olds…the average age when boys lose their virginity in the United States now is 14.

        Quote  Reply

    41. Margaery is not going to have sex with Tommen in episode 3. The entire Cersei plot against her is based on her not being a virgin when she can’t have consummated her marriage with Tommen yet. She sleeps with Tommen and then would have to complete rewrite Cersei’s plot against her.

      People need to stop jumping to conclusions based on often misleading episode synopsis.

        Quote  Reply

    42. The Marge “enjoying” Tommen line is one of those misleading lines they always put in summaries. It’s meant to suggest what y’all are alternately freaking out and drooling over but it won’t actually be that.

        Quote  Reply

    43. Moka,

      Margeary is not 17 in the show… not at all.

      All characters are older. The youngest only a couple of years older at the beginning of the show (though more time elapses in the show than in the books during the story, so by ADWD/Season 5 the kids are more than two years older in the show), but the young adults and plain adults are waaaay older in the show, both explicitly and implicitly going by the choice of actors.

      Danyyy,

      A classic argument from the “men can’t be raped” idiots, whether that’s your position or not. It makes no sense. Rape is not only a physical transgression, but a psychological one. In fact, its enduring effects are mostly psychological!

        Quote  Reply

    44. Danyyy,

      I’m sorry, but that’s horse shit. It’s about whether the person is mentally ready and claiming physiological differences is bollocks. Plus, if we look at the teacher example they are taking advantage of a position of power. Saying underage sex should be more tolerated for one gender than another is the epitome of double standards.

      260 Americans are shot each day. Doesn’t mean that’s right either.

        Quote  Reply

    45. kanin: I really don’t get how one is more intimate or leaves you more vulnerable than the other.

      Have you both “pitched” and “catched” as it were? If you have, you should understand what I mean.

      TheTouchofFrost:

      Boys and girls are different. There’s nothing wrong with that. We’re all equal in brain-power and should be equal in opportunity, but our bodies, strength, endurance, socialization and perspectives are very different. It’s a PC false equivalency to say that we’re exactly alike except our genitalia. Oh and by the way, that genitalia influences our personalities, urges, and instincts in different directions. There’s neither anything wrong with that nor should there be.

      Sexism is a problem when it denies opportunity or protection. That’s what the “ism” is. But to acknowledge differences in sexes isn’t sexist.

      Some 20-year-old men aren’t ready for sex, and some 14-year-old girls are. But on average, boys are more sexually adventurous than girls at a younger age (the stakes are a lot lower for them, for one). And yes, being penetrated is more intimate than penetrating. Don’t even try to argue that until you’ve done both.

      But I’m not continue to keep arguing this on this site as it’s way off topic, not really appropriate, and making me uncomfortable.

        Quote  Reply

    46. OT but if anyone was interested in what Gethin Anthony (Renly) is up to, he’s starring as Charles Manson in a new NBC show Aquarius this summer. It’s starring David Duchovny as the detective trying to track down Manson in the 60’s. Looks interesting

      Duchovny being on this show is funny because Aquarius is paired up on the same night as the third season of Hannibal on NBC this summer. For those who don’t know Gillian Anderson has now been promoted from part-time cast to a regular on Hannibal starting this year. So it’s an X-Files reunion of sorts.

      Also, here’s the trailer for the new Hannibal season just because it’s an awesome show. Get hype!

        Quote  Reply

    47. Danyyy:
      About woman/boy versus man/girl sex…it IS different in a sense. Being penetrated is much more intimate, makes one much more vulnerable…it’s also somethingyou can achieve forcefully with much less effort. So it’s a false equivalency IMHO.

      Let me be clear, we’re talking about 14/15 year olds…the average age when boys lose their virginity in the United States now is 14.

      I’m giving a hearty Catelyn Stark side eye to this whole post.

      First of all, citation needed on boys on average becoming sexually active at 14.

      Secondly, statutory rape has nothing to do with penetration. It’s about an adult taking advantage of a minor who is not mentally and emotionally ready to enter into an adult relationship. The gender is irrelevant.

        Quote  Reply

    48. Greenjones,

      The pages are blocked, as I said. Don’t know why. I added the summaries to the Talk pages of the episodes. Hopefully an administrator will add the information to the proper episode pages. That’s all I can do.

        Quote  Reply

    49. Danyyy: But I’m not continue to keep arguing this on this site as it’s way off topic, not really appropriate, and making me uncomfortable.

      How very convenient. You’re the one that brought this up bub, we didn’t force you into this conversation about underage sex (odd that that doesn’t make you uncomfortable as opposed to this current conversation).

      Danyyy: “And yes, being penetrated is more intimate than penetrating. Don’t even try to argue that until you’ve done both.‘”

      Well, I have. I still disagree. Any other internet credentials you would like to request?

        Quote  Reply

    50. Also, Cersei getting the threat against Mycella in ep. 2 means they can probably have Jaime and Bronn in Dorne by episode 4, or 5 at the latest, so once we get to the episode summaries for those episodes, we may start to learn more about what happens in Dorne.

        Quote  Reply

    51. TheTouchOfFrost,

      The percentage of lads who are not gay and can get erect that wouldn’t have sex with Natalie Dormer is few and far between. My god I would have loved to have a hot young teacher “teach” me.

        Quote  Reply

    52. Margaery enjoys her new husband… What… Hopefully that means a Ser Pounce scene.

      Arya sees the many faced god jsut means she sees someone die right? And Ellaria being all vengeful takes away something from the Sand Snakes characters which isn’t good. What are their characters then? I’m expecting clashes between vengeful Ellaria and Snakes and reamining peaceful Doran and Aero. Or perhaps Ellaria and Obara are vengeful, while Tyene and Nymeria are focused on crowning Myrcella.

        Quote  Reply

    53. WeirwoodTreeHugger,

      I applaud your Catelyn Stark side-eye. I deserve it. Average age for boys is 16.7 according to Kinsey, while 23% lose it 14-15 and 32% have lost it by 15.

      Statutory rape is always wrong. It is now, and should always have been. On this show, Margaery is probably supposed to be like 25, while Tommen is 14, and that’s just gross and icky.

      I was not referring to the statutory aspect of it, but to general sexuality, and while kanin may feel equivalency, I certainly don’t, so I will amend my comment to speak for personal experience. I still think there’s nothing wrong with saying boys and girls are not the same, and should be given equal opportunity. But I don’t think it’s wrong, say, to have boys and girls sports teams, or actor and actress acting categories, or to say that boys and girls ON AVERAGE experience sexuality differently.

      My apologies for offending anyone. We all deserve our own opinions and experiences in the world, and we all deserve legal protection against abuse.

        Quote  Reply

    54. There are some very weird conversations going on here… And those who are defending Margaery’s grooming of a child, aka paedophilia, would NEVER be saying the same things is the genders were reversed. Her seducing a child is just as creepy to me as what Baelish did with Sansa.

        Quote  Reply

    55. Danyyy,

      I don’t agree. The only difference is how boys and girls are socialised. The physical differences can make a difference in other walks of life (I personally don’t agree with mixed gender contact sports…that’s probably opening myself up for a ton of abuse) but sex certainly isn’t one of them. Some girls are capable of getting pregnant before they even hit double figures ( youngest example of motherhood recorded is 5 years old which is astounding for many reasons) so are they ready for sexual intercourse? Fair enough if you don’t want to keep discussing it but have a serious think about how you’d think if it was a man having sex with an underage boy.

      Zeus,

      You’re applying your adult mind to a child’s situation. If a woman in a position of power came onto you sexually whilst you were a boy then, despite your outward blasé attitude to sex you would be terrified and she would be taking advantage of you. Out of interest how would you feel if Natalie Dormer wasn’t in the slightest bit attractive? Or if Tommen was Arya and Margary was Jon Snow?

        Quote  Reply

    56. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Not really. I remember being a teenager. All I thought about was sex. When I was 13 I had an attractive teacher in her mid twenties, ginger really hot in a hippie sort of way. I spent that entire year thinking of scenarios in which we would end up where you think we would and some of them were elaborate. I’m a man and this story is very common amongst men of that age. The thing is her attractiveness to me meant I was willing.

      Had she been a minger I probably, probably would have resisted which would have made it wrong. Had she been a normal sized woman I probably could of fought her off. Had she been Brienne sized (book not show, Gwen is attractive) I probably would have been forced to do things.

      The arya jon thing doesn’t apply because incest is always icky. Actually I do have some third cousins…….

      The fact is when I’m not in a relationship (not a cheater) I have a hard time not having sex with a woman I find attractive. I have thought this from age 15 onward

        Quote  Reply

    57. GaiusB,

      I think that the big role that Trystane will take is

      egging Myrcella on to state a claim as Queen of Westeros, and plotting to do so.

      So, in that sense, he’s taking on Arianne’s role. It looks like Ellaria is taking on a different aspect of the role: revenge for Oberyn. However, that was a lesser item on the replaced character’s personal agenda: but it was certainly one used for getting the Sand Snakes involved.

      Chimeny: Her seducing a child is just as creepy to me as what Baelish did with Sansa.

      But neither Sansa nor Tommen are children in this world (and in this adaptation: book Tommen obviously is a lot younger than teen TV Tommen, who is played by a 17 year old, and who is probably supposed to be in his early-mid teens). Something GRRM has mentioned is that this is a “traditional” world in which there is no concept of adolescence. Children are too young to reproduce; once you are old enough to reproduce, then you are an adult. The only real concern where age was involved was the recognition in some cultures that women who hit menarchy early might not be physically ready to bear children: death in childbirth was more common in younger women (i.e., early teens).

      Moreover, “emotional maturity” and related concepts are very anachronistic. Emotions were not considered relevant to these things. Now, it obviously behooves Margaery here to emotionally seduce Tommen: but this is a necessary tactic to pry him away from his mother.

      Ultimately, this is a world that is brutally Darwinian, and the social mores reflect that. Margaery’s actions reflect this as well as any other character: in a lot of ways, the Game of Thrones is social Darwinism at the highest sociopolitical levels, after all: it’s not just “you win or you die,” but “you win or your line gets eradicated.” A lot of their morality strikes us as unethical: but, then, Tywin Lannister would think that we have no sense of proper values, too.

        Quote  Reply

    58. Zeus: The fact is when I’m not in a relationship (not a cheater) I have a hard time not having sex with a woman I find attractive. I have thought this from age 15 onward

      Ah, the old definition of “Platonic Friendship”: she’s not interested! 😛

      (And, let’s face it: it’s not far from true….)

        Quote  Reply

    59. Wimsey,

      He may be played by a 17 year old but Tommen is under 16 which makes him a child. At least in modern times. Also in the books and show Tyrion calls Sansa a child several times…

      Anyway, I have no problem with the realism of children/young teenagers marrying because that’s what it was like in the Middle-Ages, what I have a problem with is people’s double standards.

        Quote  Reply

    60. Danyyy,

      Statutory rape is always wrong. It is now, and should always have been. On this show, Margaery is probably supposed to be like 25, while Tommen is 14, and that’s just gross and icky.

      Margaery can’t be 25, she would be an old maid in this show’s universe, she has to be max 18-19. It doesn’t matter how old an actor is in reality if they can pull off playing someone significantly younger/older. Sansa is 13 in a pilot and 14-15 when she marries Tyrion, so I guess the young adults of the story are about 1-2 years older than their book counterparts (with significant exceptions like for example Brienne and Podrick).
      And 14 is an age of consent in many european countries (in mine it’s 15), so don’t freak out. ;x

        Quote  Reply

    61. Since GRRMs avatar is Tyrion I guess he agrees. Most men think with two heads and our wee one gets us in a lot of trouble

        Quote  Reply

    62. You just know that the synopsis for 0506 or whatev will say

      “Brienne and Podrick hang around the Riverlands,”

      everyone will freak out, then they just do so figuratively, not literally.

        Quote  Reply

    63. Let’s shut down this particular debate seeing as it’s based on a (almost positively) misinterpreted line in an episode description. Save your pitchforks for when something is actually on the screen that you don’t agree with.

        Quote  Reply

    64. James Rivers,

      Every episode description for the last half of the season should have one of those:

      “Brienne and Pod almost lose their heads trying to figure out what to do next.”

      “Brienne and Pod are roped into meeting a new group of acquaintances”

      “Things get so noisy for Brienne that she needs to scream for her sword”

        Quote  Reply

    65. Danyyy: Statutory rape is always wrong. It is now, and should always have been.

      Ah, but our definition of “statutory rape” would have been oxymoronic in even the very recent past. Throughout most of history, you cannot be both “underage” and “sexually mature”: the two were defined based on each other. (This is, of course, distinct from true paedophelia, which is being sexually attracted to sexually immature people: the two get confounded because of legal definitions, but they really have nothing in common.)

      At any rate, Tommen on the show is pretty clearly supposed to be a young adult. (That probably is the best way to think of sexually mature teens.) OK, maybe he is a little childish, but he was the “baby” of the family, too. Margaery is probably supposed to be about 18, tops: indeed, that would be a little old to still be unmarried in their world given her social status!

        Quote  Reply

    66. Zeus,

      Those were fantasies and not reality. I’m sure girls have them about older men too. There is a massive difference from a teenage crush to a full-blown sexual encounter. It doesn’t matter if you would have been willing or not you would not be old enough to give consent. Hence the term statutory rape. It’s a law there to protect minors from being sexually exploited. If if we take away the age ( which is kind of hard to do) she , as a teacher, would be abusing her position. She has a duty of care to you and forming a sexual relationsup is abusing that duty.
      Not sure about you mindset when you are only considering phsycial appearance and size as factors in this. It’s quite possible for someone to be raped by somone attractive and who isn’t physically imposing.
      Ok then, take away the fact they are related , is everything in that scenario ok now?
      You do realise how you feel is not how all men feel so it’s not wise to apply it generally. Personally, I’ve got enough self-control to find a woman attractive without needing to have sex with her. If you take the time to find out women are actually great at many other things other than being a place for you to put your penis! I mean, I may be in the minority but myself and most guys I know are able to form close friendships with the opposite sex without the sole intention of wanting to get in bed with them!

      Wow, this has become a self-fulfilling prophecy! We don’t even know what the sentence means and already there’s a mini furore!

        Quote  Reply

    67. TheTouchOfFrost,

      I love women mate. They’re not all there for my sexual pleasure. Never said that. I have two sisters and three nieces. Love them to death but I think sex is a natural act and people should enjoy it. What do I know I grew up in Europe. I don’t have your hang ups. Cheers

        Quote  Reply

    68. patty: Sansa is 13 in a pilot and 14-15 when she marries Tyrion, so I guess the young adults of the story are about 1-2 years older than their book counterparts (with significant exceptions like for example Brienne and Podrick).

      It’s made pretty clear at the outset of Season 3 that over a year passed between the end of Season 1 and the beginning of Season 3. Sansa is supposed to have been in Kings’ Landing for at least a couple of years given comments in Season 4. Part of this is the fact that they have (or had!) child actors: and you just cannot pretend that they are aging as slowly as GRRM has them aging in the books. (GRRM has stated that regrets not making them older from the start: he had intended to put a 5 year gap to make them adults in the end, but somewhere that got lost.)

        Quote  Reply

    69. Stannis’ jaw clenched as he ground his teeth together. “Don’t stop Lord Snow” he sighed; “don’t stop you sexy bastard.” Jon would have replied if his tongue weren’t so busy. He forgot all about Ygritte while in the powerful embrace of Stannis’ thighs.

        Quote  Reply

    70. wizardeyes,
      Breathless, Jon swoons at the sight of Stannis’ small clothes and begs his King to reveal where he got them. Stannis pauses and then whispers, “My small clothes are made from the purist silk from Tralalalalaleday.”

        Quote  Reply

    71. Wimsey,

      I remember her saying to Tyrion right after their wedding that she’s 14 and two years can also be described as “a couple of years”. Personally, I have no problem buying that she’s now 15-16.

        Quote  Reply

    72. Why is HBO’s marketing team so terrible this year? Where is the 2nd trailer? Where are the character posters?

        Quote  Reply

    73. Wimsey,

      The writers have pretty much given up keeping all the characters’ ages, etc. consistent at this point. Though in a way I can’t blame them, given that the novels were not written with a TV adaptation in mind. We were explicitly told that Tommen is 8 in season 1, whereas Dean-Charles Chapman is definitely not playing a 10/11-year-old, which is how old he would be if you were tracking him alongside Sansa, who started the series at 13 and is 15 at most now.

        Quote  Reply

    74. patty,

      If you go by the books, Sansa’s 15th birthday would have been around the time of the Red Wedding. So she’s a few months, at most, beyond that. Definitely not 16.

        Quote  Reply

    75. I’m not entirely sure how the decision about how far back each trailer is released from the premiere is indicative of how well the show is being marketed.

      It premieres April 12th. How does a trailer coming out in February instead of January or March instead of February affect how many people are going to be excited and ready to watch on April 12th?

      99% of the viewing public isn’t waiting with bated breath for each trailer to drop the way we are here. When it does drop, they watch, get suitably excited and then move on knowing that they’ll get to start watching the show on the premiere date.

      While I understand the impatience to see the marketing from hardcore fans, don’t try to equate that into them not promoting the show properly. That’s on you.

        Quote  Reply

    76. OrtMeyer: Why is HBO’s marketing team so terrible this year? Where is the 2nd trailer? Where are the character posters?

      Their marketing teams are working on marketing shows that need marketing. An extremely popular show in it’s 5th season needs no marketing. So, why waste $$$ and effort when the same $$$ and effort might increase viewership for a new show?

      King Tommen: While I understand the impatience to see the marketing from hardcore fans, don’t try to equate that into them not promoting the show properly. That’s on you.

      That, too!

      Sean C.: If you go by the books, Sansa’s 15th birthday would have been around the time of the Red Wedding. So she’s a few months, at most, beyond that. Definitely not 16.

      The world is probably about a year past the Red Wedding by this point. They tend to ascribe about one year to each season.

      At this point, trying to pretend that Sophie Turner is only 16 is getting tough. She’s actually a “mature” looking 18 or 19 year old, particularly in her current outfits and hair-style: she could easily pass for early-mid 20’s. (Maise Williams, on the other hand, has those “elfin” features that will let her pass for a younger person more easily; however, it seems that she has become much too “busty” to pass for an early teen already: or at least the boys clothes she wears on thrones make her look that way.)

        Quote  Reply

    77. Zeus,

      You want to be careful how you put yourself across then as you sound very narrow-minded. Imagine for one moment that you find out that an older teacher was sleeping with one of your sisters or nieces when they weren’t of age. Wonder how liberal your attitudes would remain?
      Also, I’m pretty sure England is still a part of Europe but why let that get in the way of assumption and stereotyping of our American cousins! Either way, I make no apologies for being ‘hung up’ on not agreeing with statuatory rape or people in positions of power taking advantage of people in their care.

        Quote  Reply

    78. I wonder when the Night’s Watch election will happen – which was mentioned last season and which Bryan Cogman promised would be happening in Season 5.

        Quote  Reply

    79. Even though the age of consent in England is 16 and someone of 16 can have sex with almost anyone 16 or older, there is one exception. Someone in position of authoritative care over said 16 or 17 year old, say a teacher, legal guardian cannot engage in sex. I guess because an emotional connection is made which might preclude the said 16-17 year old from distinguishing between love and lust or misinterpretation of affections.

      When I was with a group touring across the Pond, we were informed though the age of consent is 16, if we had sex with said 16 (even though by their laws we could), we would be sent back home to face charges, because we have to abide by the strictest American law. which is 18. Which I believe to be a double standard, the reason being we are told to abide by the laws of a country we are visiting, but in cases of sex or drugs we have to abide by the American laws.
      We just have too many religious or otherwise busy bodies here in America forcing their viewpoints and version of morality upon others.
      I mean just think about it reasonably, some person from a primitive society centuries ago, says that so and so came to them, even though no one else could see that so and so and told them this is the way it should be, and if those others don’t agree, we will force them to or they perish. Sounds to me that said individual had viewpoints he wanted to force upon others because he/she couldn’t stand people doing their own thing, which is freedom. Or…that someone was under the influence (high as a kite) and mistook hallucination for reality.
      Sure there should be a few basic rules, don’t murder, don’t steal, don’t bodily injure, don’t harm children, don’t destroy property. Otherwise anything goes, oh one other, don’t do anything that messes with the earth we reside upon. There’s a submariner truth, take care of the boat and it will take care of you.

        Quote  Reply

    80. ArgonathofBraavos:
      Ellaria seeks revenge for “some” reason? I think there may be a rather specific reason!

      I think you misunderstood the syntax of the sentence. “Some reason” referring to them changing Ellaria for some reason.

        Quote  Reply

    81. What if the reason for not sending Sam whereever Measters go is to make him one of the daggers in the night in “for the watch ” scene to make it more shocking and dramatic ?!

        Quote  Reply

    82. King Tommen,

      God, Hannibal is amazing. Game of Thrones is my favorite show on TV by a considerable margin, but Hannibal and The Americans are truly exceptional programs as well. Revisiting all three of them has certainly made the hiatus easier to tolerate.

      In other news, I see that I missed out on some … interesting conversations while I was away. “Stannis tempts Jon? ” “Queen Margaery enjoys her new husband?” Oh, poor HBO PR drone who wrote these summaries, what have you done? 😉

        Quote  Reply

    83. Luka Nieto:
      As expected and suggested by the trailer, Ellaria takes the role of Arianne.

      Looking forward (not really) to some book readers saying D&D have “butchered Ellaria’s character”, despite the fact that she’s simply taking the role and the attitudes of a more major character these same fans really like and criticize D&D for cutting. Never heard of adaptation amalgamation, apparently.

      Oh well…

      There’s a nice speech but it makes sense in TV medium to transfer a major role to an already introduced character rather than introducing a whole new major character amongst the many others and than marginalising an established one

      Spoiler

      Simplifies the Dornish plot too to a simple one of Ellaria + Sand Snakes = Queenmaking revenge while Doran plays the moderate line via Areo and is probably planning something deeper

        Quote  Reply

    84. Lady Nym,

      Lady Nym:

      It would be shocking, and it would be dramatic. But it would not be Sam. It would show a blatant disregard for the essence of his character. Sacrificing wholeness of character for a cheap twist isn’t sustainable.

        Quote  Reply

    85. patchface I have a question for you…

      Taking together “possible Tommen’s death” and “Gendry reappear” into consideration… what if the Tyrell decide to back Robert’s Bastard (Gendry in the TV, Edric Storm in the books) arranging the fourth Margery’s wedding? In the books they know for sure about Edric Storm since he was in Renly Storm End Castle, and after the attempt of Melisandre to burn him alive he was fleeing south to the Stepstones. The Tyrell are there with their fleet so it seems to be a pretty obvious way to make the Faith happy. Anyway I have the impression the whole plot in King’s Landing will be turned completely. I guess Loras will take the place of Marge as a prisoner of the Faith… With Tommen looking so old in the TV show the original plot is much less convincing. And if there is no Aegon I don’t see reason for Varys (depicted as a Daenarys supporter) to come back and kill Pycelle/Kevan.

        Quote  Reply

    86. The whole Margaery/Tommen derail is a bit odd. She’s considerably older than Tommen in the show which was made clear by the scene with Ser Pounce making an appearance and it’s also the reason why Margaery took the approach she did instead of more sexual one, like suggested by Olenna. That’s not going to change this season either and the bit in synopsis is just the writers having fun writing little ditties that are very misleading, like the “Sam meets an older gentleman” for the episode he killed a white walker in.

        Quote  Reply

    87. Hodor: She’s considerably older than Tommen in the show which was made clear by the scene with Ser Pounce making an appearance and it’s also the reason why Margaery took the approach she did instead of more sexual one, like suggested by Olenna.

      But of course, it was Natalie Dormer that put that approach into effect, because she understandably wasn’t comfortable with sexually seducing Tommen. It sounds like D&D were planning to go down that path, but Dormer made them change it.

      http://www.ibtimes.com/game-thrones-season-5-spoilers-natalie-dormer-margaerys-seduction-king-tommen-1728129

        Quote  Reply

    88. Waxfoot,

      Assuming Oldtown doesn’t make it into the show, what if Sam heads off to Braavos in season 6, perhaps to meet with the Iron Bank. Arya sees him and, misunderstanding why he is there, assumes he is a Night’s Watch deserter and kills him (instead of Dareon in the books). Thus Sam dies a presumed coward as an ironic undermining of the growth his character has shown since we first saw him

        Quote  Reply

    89. Wimsey,

      It seems rather bizarre to me that you can accept Margaery who’s 32 in real life as an 18-year old girl, but can’t accept Sansa who’s only about 3 years older than her character as a 15-year old ;o. For me, she looks almost exactly the same as she looked in season 2, when the actress was 15.
      I’m under the impression that years pass more or less the same as in the books, which would make s1 – one year, s2-3 – one year and now s4-5 – one year. Which, in turn, would make Sansa 15, Dany 17, Marge 18, Jon 18, Arya 13(??), Bran 11(?????), Ramsay probably 19 and Theon 22. With the exception of characters like Brienne, Pod, Tommen (and Joffrey who is stated to be 17 in s2 – although by Tyrion so I don’t know if that’s legit) etc., who are and look a lot older than their book counterparts, I think the rest can be applied the same age differeces that exist in the books.

        Quote  Reply

    90. Ah come on, the synopses are not written by PR drones, they’re written by people who know exactly how to get the fans into a lather. I hope they’re reading this thread, they must be loving it. There’s no such thing as a random choice of words!

        Quote  Reply

    91. uff,

      That is certainly an interesting theory, but from the book’s perspective it’s seems unlikely, though I prefer not to speculate.

      Tommen’s death

      is cert but I have no context for it. In my opinion, the most likely consequence is actually what you posted in the other thread, namely that

      Myrcella will become queen, which means we shall have five queens competing for power next season : 3 crowned queens in KL plus the queen in the east and the queen of the north. Now that I think of, Myrcella being queen, her betrothal and possible marriage to Trystane when considered in opposition to Stannis’ claims is something that further mirrors the plot in the historical war of the roses (Richard III, Elisabeth of York & Henry VII Tudor) which we know that served as a source of inspiration for GRRM. It certainly looks more and more as a real possibility since Trystane appears to take over fAegon’s arc and Elaria is all but guaranteed to be play Arianne for the most part (some elements of Arianne’s have been distributed to the three Sand Snakes we have so far). We already had Cristan Cole as the Kingmaker, now we have a Queenmaker. I have no idea how Gendry will factor in here, but in my personal opinion it’s unlikely that he will be a major player so early, perhaps in the final season, who knows… My impression was that Gendry will reappear as a smith in the some village in the Vale or Riverlands, but I cannot recall whether this is based on actual info or its has built in my mind from the books (see this is why I don’t like to speculate, I’m mixing actual info with theories).

        Quote  Reply

    92. I don’t think the show adheres all that much to a strict time frame unless specifically pointed out like, for example, at the beginning of Season 4, where it was said that a month had passed since the end of Season 3. For everything else, I’m not sure a precise time table is even possible. Many assume one year passes per season. That is certainly plausible for certain characters, not so much for others. Looking at Arya’s S4 storyline, I find it hard to believe it took more than 2-3 months. Same thing with the Wall storyline. Tormund and Ygritte scaled the Wall in 3×06. It is highly improbable they spent untold months, or close to a year, south of the Wall.

      If I had to guess, based on general impressions, I’d say Seasons 1 and 2 took the longest, possibly close to a year each. Seasons 3 and 4, though, seem to cover a much shorter period of time, maybe several months each.

        Quote  Reply

    93. I think M’s enjoying her husband refers to his kindness and is not necessarily meant in a sexual context…

      So my expectation is a scene with Tommen picking some flowers for Margeary.

        Quote  Reply

    94. Reading the synopsies ( sp?!) , I now have an even stronger feeling that things aren’t going to end well for either Ellara or Obara! If Ellara is pulling the strings , I sense she may be in the most trouble but we shall see.

        Quote  Reply

    95. Thanks for answering. Then i see that instead of a queenmaking plot we will probably see a princess murder in revenge plot, that it will be opposed by jamie, trystane/aegon and Doran.

      Patchface:
      uff,

      That is certainly an interesting theory, but from the book’s perspective it’s seems unlikely, though I prefer not to speculate.

      is cert but I have no context for it.In my opinion, the most likely consequence is actually what you posted in the other thread, namely that

        Quote  Reply

    96. Uff,

      That certainly sounds like a distinct possibility and it kinda makes a lot of sense.

      After a failed attempt on Myrcella, the revenge refocuses on Tommen, which would result in Myrcella queen and Trystane king. If Tommen’s death is not the result of some random accident, Dorne would have the most to gain from the assassination, apart from Littlefinger. Maybe it’s just me but I just don’t see Varys or an agent of Stanis killing Tommen, it just does not fit their respective characters. I could sooner see an Iron Bank agent doing the deed for defaulting on the loan or even some religious fanatic, but I think someone from Dorne or Littlefinger are the more likely candidates. Again, this is all speculation, we shall learn about it soon enough.

        Quote  Reply

    97. All this murder, sex, mystery, and political intrigue is nice, but I think we know what’s important here. Additional screentime for Tommen means more Ser Pounce! SER POUNCE RETURNS!!!!

        Quote  Reply

    98. Wimsey:
      The world is probably about a year past the Red Wedding by this point.They tend to ascribe about one year to each season.

      No way has a year passed since the Red Wedding. A month or so passed offscreen between season 3 and season 4, but season 4 itself covered a period that can’t have been more than a couple of months (and, in the case of Tyrion’s storyline, clearly wasn’t more than weeks).

        Quote  Reply

    99. TheTouchOfFrost:You’re applying your adult mind to a child’s situation. If a woman in a position of power came onto you sexually whilst you were a boy then, despite your outward blasé attitude to sex you would be terrified and she would be taking advantage of you. Out of interest how would you feel if Natalie Dormer wasn’t in the slightest bit attractive? Or if Tommen was Arya and Margary was Jon Snow?

      You don’t even need to make up examples, there’s one already: as we all know, the younger characters got aged up because of Dany, since, as GRRM straight up said, instead of a 17-year old actress playing a 13-year old Dany, they had to go with a 20-something actress playing a 17-year old Dany, or else their sex scenes would have been considered child pornography. It simply wasn’t doable. I do wonder though if the people here who are drooling over the prospect of Tommen/Margaery sex would be drooling over sex scenes between Jason Momoa and some teenage actress young-looking enough to pass for 13.

      But more importantly, as the above examples shows, it ain’t happening. Dean-Charles Chapman was 16 when shooting season 5, and Tommen can’t be more than 13-14, since show!Joffrey was 17 when he died (I guess theoretically he could be 15 and Myrcella 16, but it is a stretch – you’d have to assume Cersei waited just a few months after birth both times before conceiving the next child; but the same rules would apply even if he were 15). The rules of what is considered “child pornography” on TV haven’t changed in the meantime, those rules take into account the character’s age as well as the actor’s. Get real, guys. It’s not happening. And whoever wrote those summaries is a massive troll who loves to make fun of the fans. 😉 “Sam meets an older gentleman”, “Stannis tempts Jon”, “Margaery enjoys her new husband”… LOL

        Quote  Reply

    100. Spoilers about a possible death that hasn’t happened in the books:

      So, if Tommen dies, who does the deed? Varys? Iron Bank/Faceless Man? The Faith Militant? A Sand Snake/Dornish catspaw? Or will it just be an accident(doubtful). My bet(hope) would be Varys. Talk about turning up the epilogue of ADWD a notch. Kevan was a decent, respectable man. Tommen is a good kid, with the potential to be a good king….

        Quote  Reply

    101. Annara Snow,

      Your comment doesn’t make sense. Dany was supposed to be 14 when Drogo had sex with her, now Tommen in the show is the same age or a bit older… And Marg in the show (or even the actress) is younger than Drogo or the actor who played him.

      I’m not saying something will happen between Marg and Tommen (I think they will just become more friends), but it’s ridiculous to call people “pedophiles” when we’re talking about a fiction…

        Quote  Reply

    102. Annara Snow,

      The rules of what is considered “child pornography” on TV haven’t changed in the meantime, those rules take into account the character’s age as well as the actor’s.

      You mean any character under the age of 17 or just an underage teenager playing a child (under 15, probably)? If you mean the former then, well, I’ve never heard about that and to be honest it’s really silly. I understand that actors can’t appear naked when they’re under 17 or 18 years of age (if parents agree they can be a little younger, i guess; christian slater was 16 when filming “the name of the rose”), but applying the same thing to fictional characters seems seriously ridiculous. And, actually, I’m not buying that seeing how Shameless got away with showing gratuitous nudity of 15 -year old characters.
      Westeros.org states that Daenerys was supposed to be 15 in season 1 and that’s an age I’m buying since it just makes the most sense narratively and isn’t that far off from her original age, but far enough to not cause an uproar. Besides, Sansa is probably 15 at the moment and rumour has it that she’ll have a sex scene this season, athough I haven’t heard anything if she’ll be shown naked or not.

      since show!Joffrey was 17 when he died

      Since he was 17 in season 2 (as stated by tyrion), i guess he died 18.

        Quote  Reply

    103. OT: Is anyone else having to re-enter your login info each time a page reloads, or is it just me?

        Quote  Reply

    104. Annara Snow,

      Not for nothing but a consummated relationship between Tommen and Margaery can happen easily on this show, they just don’t have to display the actual sex on screen. Tommen is already a smitten puppy around her and that’s not because he thinks she just being nice to him. I’m prepared to see nothing explicit but I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see a smiling non-virgin Tommen after coitus. HBO knows how to tease, yes, but they also know how to push the boundaries and this would fall under acceptable in their eyes.

      Oh and Dean was 17 when his scenes were shot early this fall. Just sayin’.

        Quote  Reply

    105. Mr Fixit,

      Do we know at what age do people come of age in the show? It seems to be 18, according to the TV version of the story about his father that Sam told Jon in season one. So there you have it.

        Quote  Reply

    106. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      It depends if it started 17 years prior to s1 or ended. In the books (i’m relying on awoiaf here) Robert’s Rebelion takes place from 282AC to 283AC and Dany is born in 284AC, so I guess in season 1 her being any age from 15 to 17 could pass.

        Quote  Reply

    107. Sean C.: No way has a year passed since the Red Wedding.

      It probably will be about a year at the opening of this season. One thing that people forget is that we should assume that more time elapses than we are used to elapsing. We joke about Littlefinger’s jetpack, yet the show makes off=hand comments to events in episodes from a couple of weeks prior having happened months ago frequently.

        Quote  Reply

    108. Late to the thread: I love these synopses. Perfect mix of tease and information.

      Anyone else weirdly excited about seeing Volanits?

      Also, on a similar note, I have no idea how they’re doing the Sorrows/Rhoyne geography if Varys is with Tyrion in Volantis. Didn’t we see Peter and Iain sailing down a river, by themselves?

        Quote  Reply

    109. Lion of Night,

      We did. Let’s hope it all makes sense when we actually get to see the episodes. Doubt they’ll change the geography. I’m really excited about Volantis as well, and rather curious about what type of architecture they’ll use.

      Also, I hope we get to see adaptations of certain scenes, such as Tyrion listening to the Red Priest at Selhorys advocating for Volantis to enter the war at Slaver’s Bay, but in the side of Daenerys, not against her, as they believe her to be the true Warrior of Light. Obviously, it would be set in Volantis, but still. Generally, I want Volantis to be more than a stop-gap and a plot device so that Tyrion gets kidnapped —I want to hear talks about Volantis joining the war against Daenerys, I want to hear about the slaves and the believers in the Red God supporting her, I want as much foreshadowing as there was in the books. Hopefully there’ll be some of that, in all likelihood delivered by Varys.

        Quote  Reply

    110. “Queen Margaery enjoys her new husband?” does not have any connection to paedophilia, though it is still something quite disturbing and a massive departure from the books. Several comments above praising Hannibal are what made me realise the horrible truth about Margaery.

        Quote  Reply

    111. Luka Nieto: I’m really excited about Volantis as well, and rather curious about what type of architecture they’ll use.

      I could see a Roman style, as that visually conveys the “descendant of vast sprawling empire” as well as the “more advanced ancient civilization” motif.

      I, too, am curious to see what take we get on the religious end. Given that they expanded Melisandre’s and Thoros’ roles to develop this aspect of the religion in question, I would be surprised if we do not get further development this year. It also could provide some symmetry with what we get in Kings Landing:

      the “pretender” Queens Margaery and (especially!) Cersei fall afoul of organized religion, while another pretender (Stannis) is supported by a wayward member of a different organization, and the true Queen is supported by the head of that different organization.

      Still, they might cut it for now on the grounds that one scene in an “out-of-the-way” context might seem like gratuitous world-building rather than plot-development.

        Quote  Reply

    112. Wimsey,

      I don’t really expect a scene with a Red Priest, though I hope for it. It may seem redundant, yes. But I do expect Varys to comment upon the state of things in Volantis when they arrive there.

        Quote  Reply

    113. Luka Nieto: It may seem redundant, yes.

      I am not sure that it would be so much “redundant” as not yet pertinent. However, that will depend in part on stuff that they do with Melisandre.

        Quote  Reply

    114. Wimsey,

      Really? It’s not so much about the R’hllor perspective for me.

      It’s about foreshadowing what’s probably going to happen to Essos in TWOW. Volantis sends a slave army to Meereen, and everything points to them rebelling once they arrive at Meereen, if they haven’t in the way there. Whenever Dany comes back to Westeros, she’s just gotta pass through Volantis, too. Either way, it may be too soon to hammer home the point of “Dany’s abolition of slavery is spreading throughout Essos”, that much is true. Or maybe they’ll wanna focus on that even in season five, who knows.

        Quote  Reply

    115. Luka Nieto,

      I think the forces sieging Mereen will mainly be Astapor and Yunkai, perhaps with the support of Qarth as it’s a place the show viewers are familiar with. This would make sense as the Warlocks still appear to have unfinished business with Dany and they could even bring back Xaro Xhoan Daxos (his fate is still not completely confirmed) as an established antagonist. Would really emphasise Dany’s past conquests coming back to haunt her. But hey, who knows if they’ll still include the Siege of Mereen. I still cling onto the vision of Ironborn appearing out of nowhere storming the beaches to save the day. The whole dynamic of the siege suits a feature length episode like the Battle at the Wall and Blackwater before. So many different characters and factions to give viewpoints to. Would be truly epic TV and they’d be fools not to take it on!

        Quote  Reply

    116. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Many of us assumed they wouldn’t actually show Volantis, because it’s way more expensive than just having a small town or two along the way. The “sidekick switch-up” doesn’t happen in Volantis itself in the books, after all. Maybe they just want to show off the city, but… I think they wanna introduce the Volantene into the plot, too.

      As for the ironborn, there is a reason that in the show Daario saved the Meereenese navy, which has the exact number of ships as Victarion’s Iron fleet. There will be no ironborn in Meereen. As far as I’m concerned, we’ve known that for a while. However, I still think there will be some kind of Siege and/or Battle in the show.

        Quote  Reply

    117. Luka Nieto,

      I dunno. I don’t think they’d be wanting to add more new elements into the plot than need be at this point. Maybe they needed a place closer to Mereen than Pentos for the Bear to take the Lion. Who knows but I don’t think Volantis itself will be a major player in the story going forwards.
      I think the siege/battle will be poorer for it then if that’s true. The twist of them showing up made the battle more exciting. Things in Slavers Bay are deathly dull with the locals so something different to spice it up was very welcome.

        Quote  Reply

    118. TheTouchOfFrost,

      The only two battles fully depicted in the show so far end when the tides turn thanks to a Rohirrim ex Machina. I don’t want the third battle to have exactly the same structure. That’s why they probably had Stannis attack next episode too, so that “The Watchers on the Wall” didn’t have the exact same structure as “Blackwater.”

      Still, I expect at least the Battle of Ice to be different in that respect.

        Quote  Reply

    119. Luka Nieto,

      It’s arguable that that structure is one of the only ways for the battles to maintain their excitement. If they ended the way most battles do with one side slowly getting depleted via casualties and a lack of supplies and then withdrawing or surrendering it wouldn’t be that exciting for the viewer. The Battle of Castle Black was actually quite faithful to the books with it’s basic structure only it lasted one night instead of a few days. The Stannis charge was after the main battle had ended in a stalemate, much like it was in the show only without the prolonged siege.
      As the Battle of Ice appears to have happened off screen so to speak then they’ve got pretty much a free reign.

      he Army of the Dead was much more machina like than those Horse Lords!

        Quote  Reply

    120. Luka Nieto:

      The only two battles fully depicted in the show so far end when the tides turn thanks to a Rohirrim ex Machina.

      I don’t know exactly how humorous you intended that particular phrase to be, but you certainly got a laugh from me. Bravo, sir. 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    121. Luka Nieto,

      Oh, I hadn’t been considering that part: that’s a good point.

      Luka Nieto: The only two battles fully depicted in the show so far end when the tides turn thanks to a Rohirrim ex Machina.

      Well, R’hllor basically is a god….

        Quote  Reply

    122. patty: It seems rather bizarre to me that you can accept Margaery who’s 32 in real life as an 18-year old girl, but can’t accept Sansa who’s only about 3 years older than her character as a 15-year old

      The difference between 18 and 15 is pretty frackin’ huge. Turner is long past the “gawkiness” of adolescence that she showed early in the show that typifies people of that age (regardless of whether social mores treat them as children or adults). However, a lot of people (male and female) can sort of look blurry for quite some time from late teens to early 30’s particularly for women who don’t have kids. (The distinctive sagging of breasts and expansion of hips is a big give-away there!)

      Now, if Turner were one of those “elfin” women (like Natalie Dormer), then she might pull it off looking like a 15 year old. However, it’s quite the opposite: if Turner were a US college student, then she’d be envied by her friends for not getting carded when trying to purchase liquor! (The severe style that they are giving her as Maleficent Stark only accentuates that: she looks considerably older after that.)

      patty: I’m under the impression that years pass more or less the same as in the books, which would make s1 – one year, s2-3 – one year and now s4-5 – one year.

      Actually, it’s not clear that that much time passes in the books. At any rate, over one year passes between the end of Season 1 and the beginning of Season 3 given the time passages cited by the characters. Approximately another year seems to pass between that point and the onset of Season 4, again given comments made by the characters. Sansa is supposed to have spent 2+ years in Kings Landing. It probably is multiple months between her escape and when we last see her. (No time is cited, but they are supposed to have travelled some distance: and although people joke about jetpacks, in truth the show allows many weeks to pass between events that we see fairly routinely.)

      Given that, she probably is supposed to be about 3+ years older than she was at the outset, i.e., about 16.

        Quote  Reply

    123. Wimsey,

      At the wiki we have her at “approximately 16-17” based on the rough timeline that has been established. The “17” is there because we don’t know yet how much time will pass in Season 5.

      As for the timeline of the books, it’s much more accurate. The first chapter chronologically is the first chapter as well: the Prologue, which takes place more than half a year before the rest of the story starts; in the middle of the year 297. The following two chapters chronologically are Daenerys I and Daenerys III, which take place at the end of said year. Now, Bran I takes place in March of 298. Let’s fast-forward to exactly a year later: Stannis is burning the Seven and sends the letters proclaiming Joffrey a bastard, Dany is lost in the Red Waste, the Reeds arrive at Winterfell, the Great Ranging begins, Theon arrives at Pyke. So, essentially, the beginning of aCok or Season 2. Let’s fast-forward another year, to March of 300: Arya reaches Braavos, Davos is in White Harbor, Tyrion is in Essos, Bran meets the Three-eyed raven, Jaime leaves King’s Landing, Dany is dealing with Meereneese politics, and Jaime with Night’s Watch – Wildling relations. And… we can’t fast-forward yet another year, because the story hasn’t gone that far. Dany’s and Jon’s last ADWD chapters are the last chronologically (including what’s been published of TWOW), and they take place at the end of July and the beginning of September of the year 300. So, since Dany’s story started in aGoT to where she ends up at the end of aDwD, it’s been almost three years. But her story started a bit earlier than others, so for the rest it’s been about two years and a half, or a little bit more.

      Meanwhile, the show has an entirely different timeline. The story starts in 298 and, more or less, a year passes each season, though probably not so much time passed in Season 3 and Season 4, the latter in particular. There’s fewer specifics to pinpoint, but there’s still some information to go by. For example, Jaime said he had been captive for at least a year. Also: how many years ago did Robert’s Rebellion take place? It was 17 in season one, 18 in season two when Renly dies; and 20 in season four when Littlefinger mentions it, which matches the “one season equals one year” principle. There are many other clues like that scattered throughout the show.

        Quote  Reply

    124. Luka Nieto:
      Wimsey,

      Meanwhile, the show has an entirely different timeline. The story starts in 298 and, more or less, a year passes each season, though probably not so much time passed in Season 3 and Season 4, the latter in particular. There’s fewer specifics to pinpoint, but there’s still some information to go by. For example, Jaime said he had been captive for at least a year. Also: how many years ago did Robert’s Rebellion take place? It was 17 in season one, 18 in season two when Renly dies; and 20 in season four when Littlefinger mentions it, which matches the “one season equals one year” principle. There are many other clues like that scattered throughout the show.

      Twenty years that supposedly passed since the Rebellion can be attributed to Littlefinger approximating the real number, as many people in real life often do. It could just as easily be 18,5 or 19. The last concrete year-per-season claim we’ve had on the show is Jaime’s one year in captivity, and that was back in Season 2. Seasons 3 and 4 take a similar amount of time as the books, maybe half a year between the two of them, give or take a month. I don’t think there’s solid evidence to the contrary. I doubt Arya spent close to one year traveling from the Twins to the Vale, or Tyrion half a year in a dungeon waiting for his trial, or Wildlings south of the Wall or, best yet, Stannis a year and a half sulking on Dragonstone after his defeat at the Blackwater.

        Quote  Reply

    Jump to the Top

    Leave a Reply

    Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *