Game of Thrones House army revealed & Main Cast members coalesce in Belfast

Photo: Los Siete Reinos

Photo: Los Siete Reinos

Filming in Spain may bear the brunt of leaked revelations because of us spoilerphile fans, but that doesn’t mean Game of Thrones isn’t also hard at work back at its Belfast headquarters and all around Northern Ireland. And so, below the cut we round up the appearances of much of the main cast, who have returned to Belfast, many of them presumably to film one of season seven’s main action sequences at Wolf Hill Quarry.

Meanwhile, and for an entire week now, El Barrueco de Arriba in Malpartida, Cáceres has been home to one of the show’s three production units, in the making of another one of season seven’s major setpieces. A few days ago we our first good look at one of the factions preparing for battle. Since then, new pictures from that same day have surfaced, revealing a never-before-seen army from the House of a main character.

Yesterday, Emilia Clarke and Nathalie Emmanuel uploaded these beautiful photos:

When actors don’t broadcast their location, Belfastites got us covered: Brian Griffith shared selfies with Sophie Turner, Iain Glen and Kristofer Hivju, pinpointing their location as of a few days ago (Though, since then, Hivju and Turner have left the city.) Kit Harington was also sighted in Belfast —Going to the dentist, apparently.

Work is much more exciting when Kit Harington stops by.. <img draggable=” src=”https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/72×72/1f606.png”><img draggable=” src=”https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/72×72/1f60d.png”> #work #gentledental #love #selfie #banter #werkkkkk #toppatient #kit #gameofthrones #smile #cheeseeee #GOT #dentist #nurse #kitharington #greatguy #jonsnow #gentleman #happytuesday #yay #belfast

Una foto publicada por <img draggable=” src=”https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/72×72/1f491.png”> <img draggable=” src=”https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/72×72/1f48b.png”><img draggable=” src=”https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/72×72/1f48d.png”> Mrs Monty <img draggable=” src=”https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/72×72/1f606.png”> <img draggable=” src=”https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/72×72/2764.png”> <img draggable=” src=”https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/72×72/1f478.png”> (@sarahmontgomery19.8.16) el

Back in Cáceres, some of the talent involved in the three-weeks Malpartida shoot have been sighted as well: Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, Jacob Anderson and James Faulkner. Anderson’s presence in the city points yet again to our initial reports being wrong about the Unsullied: It seems they will in fact take part in this massive scene.

Despite the smiles from the Malpartida cast, apparently some of the extras are not happy at all with the treatment they have received on set. Modexpor, who handle the hiring of extras in Spain, has been sued for breach of contract. Pablo Serrano and forty other extras have filled a formal complaint to the Work Inspectorate, alleging unpaid overtime, unpaid transport to Malpartida, as well as unnecessarily harsh conditions in these 15-hour days, such as the production giving them almost no time for lunch. When Serrano asked a Modexpor representative about overtime, she reportedly answered: “No matter how many hours you work, you’ll get paid the same. There is no overtime.”

As for what these aggrieved extras are shooting at Malpartida exactly, that must go after the prerequisite spoiler warning: There are season seven spoilers ahead! Beware!

HahPhi already showed us Dothraki riders, Lannister lancers and archers and a glimpse of what looked like Tarly soldiers along with their lord and his preferred son. HahPhi‘s new photos from Los Barruecos reveal the appearance of the armored Tarly soldiers in more detail. We can also see two as-of-yet enemy houses working together:

Photo: @Hah_phi / Twitter

Photo: @Hah_phi / Twitter

Photo: @Hah_phi / Twitter

Photo: @Hah_phi / Twitter

Los Siete Reinos has exclusive pictures that show the scene in even more detail:

Photo: Los Siete Reinos

Photo: Los Siete Reinos

Photo: Los Siete Reinos

Photo: Los Siete Reinos

In The Winds of Winter, Olenna Tyrell rebelled against Cersei in favor of Daenerys. As Sam’s House is a vassal of the Tyrells, these photographs may come as a surprise: Tarly soldiers are strengthening a Lannister shield wall and protecting Lannister archers. When the Dragon Queen comes and ambushes the Lannister caravan with Drogon, her Dothraki horde, and perhaps the Unsullied too, she will also have to face the treasonous Lord Randyll, his son Dickon, and the Tarly army he brought to sack Highgarden.

221 responses

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    1. Bolton shileds were better ,more practical less fancy .Southerners and their summer knights !! That’s why Robb won every battle. Lannisters-Tarlies don’t stand a chance against the Dothraki.
      Dany looks great in black!

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    2. Now that looks bad ass. I really hope the Dothraki get trashed so we can see the Unsullied go up against these formations.

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    3. Will be interesting to see how the Westerosi forces respond to the Dothraki , way back in season 1 Robert voiced his concern about having to go against them in the field.

      We have not seen the Unsullied and Dothraki interact or even mention one another, on the show, bookwise , due to a legendary battle they seem to have mutual respect for one another.

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    4. Konna,

      No offense, but your comment is absolutely irrelevant. If there is one thing that makes no sense in GoT, it’s armament. I always had a feeling that people who design armament for GoT just bought some illustrated armament encyclopedia (designed for children under age of five) and started picking pictures they liked from early Antiquity to late Middle Ages and in every possible combination. The upper part of the 15th-16th mounted knight armor in combination with the 11th-13th drop-shaped Viking/East-Slavonic infantry shield? Who cares…
      OK, it’s a fantasy show and they can use everything they want up to tanks and lightsabers, so there is no sense to criticize them. But neither there is a sense of making any assessment of the quality of armament of one or other party. It’s not the fault of the summer knights that they have been armed in an unfitting armor.

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    5. the treasonous Lord Randyll….

      Ah, well: the Tarleys swore oaths to the Iron Crown, too! When you swear allegiance to two sides that go to war, you basically are hosed.

      That stated, I wonder how quickly the Tarleys will learn that Highgarden’s forces have defected? One would think that things would be very much in disarray for a while.

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    6. Inga,

      Oh look we have the expert interweb guy here,i’m sure he knows way more than the multimillion dollar show guys,he time traveled to the middle ages so he knows his shit .

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    7. Inga,

      The armor of GoT is really not 15-16th century. More like right around where they started transitioning from mail to partial plate and brigandines. The coat of plates is still widely in use, along with mail. It’s just that they made it so the richer houses are able to equip their soldiers with better armor. The show does put a small emphasis on the importance of armor and better equipment too. Just look at what happened when that Dothraki tried to fight Jorah who was in plate, I think that might be foreshadowing a small portion of this battle. There are so many other cases of armor actually working in the show too. Jon’s coat of plates in the BOTB, Brienne’s armor when she fights the Boltons, Jorah in the fighting pits, the Hound’s brigandine vs Needle, etc.
      While we know It’s not really historically accurate, you can still appreciate that the show doesn’t completely disregard armor like so many other medieval fantasies.

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    8. Wimsey,

      Well, I was writing it from the perspective of Daenerys (“When the Dragon Queen comes […] she will also have to face…”.)

      But of course, actually you’re right. Treason is relative. Back in season one, when Catelyn tried to convince Walder Frey to let Robb pass through the Twins and support them, she appealed to his oaths to the Starks… But of course, Lord Frey rightly brought up the other oaths he swore; to the Crown. I very much expect that we’ll see a similar thing when the Lannisters convince the Tarlys to switch sides. They may resist for a while, but hey, the Tyrells have in fact rebelled against the Crown, so Randyll has some wiggle-room there to support whomever he chooses and save face.

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    9. The Tarlys join Mad Queen Cersei! Not too surprising of a character like Randyll.

      I am really pumped now about this Ambush sequence. I hope it’s shown clearly to the audience what exactly is happening – so that it’s easy to understand the battle sequence. I think on Daenerys’ side, the Dothraki will be the main players, with a few of the Unsullied used to trick the Lannister/Tarly force into the ambush to begin with. I wonder if this battle will see the end of Tarly and younger son.

      Luka Nieto: But of course, actually you’re right. Treason is relative.

      True. In this case, the Tarlys join the side against the foreign invaders.

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    10. Wimsey,

      Also Sam’s dad has clearly stated he hates all outsiders, be they freefolk or Dany’s esterm armies, they are all foreign invaders to him. It is also possible the Traleys have been offered or are making a play for high garden now that house Tyrell are no more.

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    11. Luka Nieto:
      In The Winds of Winter, Olenna Tyrell rebelled against Cersei in favor of Daenerys.

      Erm, where did you get this? As far as I know, there is nothing in the released/read chapters to suggest that… At this point you are making unwarranted inferences based on information from the show…and state them as actual facts. In the forthcoming book, the Queen of Thorns could very well die before or during the events at the Sept of Baelor…

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    12. Myname,

      I thought, if anyone would know, then it is Myname. 😀 You always have sort of knowledge of everyone moving around on twitter or instagram.

      Picky,

      He means last episode of season 6. Olenna allied herself with Dany, against the Iron Crown.

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    13. Wimsey,

      Tarlys are sworn to House Tyrell. Who is going against someone who murdered legitimate Queen of Seven Kingdoms and who proclaimed herself as the Queen of Seven Kingdoms. Actually, their treason is against House Tyrell, their liege lords. If Dany decides to kill them becau of that, she’s got valuable reason why to do it. Much like the Boltons did to the Starks and how they were dealt with? Killed.

      Actions of House Tarly might lead to deaths of Olenna and Grey Worm along with the Unsullied who are valuable allies or soldiers to her.

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    14. Picky,

      He was talking about the episode,good god you really are dense aren’t you ? And don’t say that he didn’t specify which Winds he was talking about because obviously he talked about it in past tense which as far as i know the book hasn’t been released yet .

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    15. Simon

      Also Sam’s dad has clearly stated he hates all outsiders, be they freefolk or Dany’s esterm armies, they are all foreign invaders to him. It is also possible the Traleys have been offered or are making a play for high garden now that house Tyrell are no more.

      Oh yes, the classic “Seemed like a good idea at the time, but now that I have this sword in my belly I’m beginning to wonder if I made the right decision” quandary.

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    16. One of Roose Bolton’s 20 Good Leaches,

      Don’t get me wrong. I understand the point the show is trying to make, and I would say the showrunners are doing much better than most of the Hollywood historic fictions, especially taking into account that they have never pretended to be historically accurate or anything like that. And yet I have MA in history and know too much about the development of medieval armory and weaponry not to notice inconsistencies. Sometimes it’s really a disadvantage to know too much. So, all I wanted to say is that all the armory should be taken with the grain of salt, because you know quite that god damned influence of pop culture: several days ago I got a question about the Mongolian and Tartar armory from a GoT fan who naturally heard that the Dothraki were loosely based on the Mongols, but never heard how the real Mongols were armed, and it took me quite some time to make him understand that the real Mongols never ran around bare-chest. So, maybe I am still under impression of that discussion: please, don’t take my rant too seriously. I just thought that maybe some people in this fandom may be interested. No offence to anyone.

      Stannisisdead,

      And as for you, Stannisisdead, check whom you are adressing before posting, not to make yourself a fool.

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    17. Inga,

      You are correct! GRRM is very insistant that the Dothraki don’t use any armor or shields. They are warriors on horses! They don’t need those things. They NEVER get off of their horses to fight. That is why Khal Drogo became nothing. When he was sick, he fell off his horse. That by itself disqualified him for being a Khal. Thus his followers fled.

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    18. I wonder what they were all filming, it’s always such a mystery in Belfast.
      Dany/Emilia looks absolutely beautiful in the black dress. I wonder what scene that is, all her dragonstone outside scenes had her with long sleeves.

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    19. CatspawAssassin,

      I don’t think so. IMO, if Randyl dies, he will die the same way Alliser Thorn did: without regrets and hesitation. Those seasoned soldiers have dignity.
      As for the reasons he chooses Cersei and Jaime against Olenna, who knows? The Queen of Thorns has a habit of being rather spiteful to other people. Think of how she talked of her own husband or how she treated her own son. Randyl may have serious reasons not to see her as a ledge lady of his dreams, not to mention that now she made an alliance with the murderous Sand Snakes, etc. So, yes in his eyes, it’s Olenna who will be the traitor, and he will die for a just cause.

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    20. How is Cersei gonna address the wildfire stuation? Is she gonna blame someone else? Is Tarly gonna trust her, or maybe Jaime? Or he will be just a two dimensional character that has no loyalty and is also racist?

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    21. Randyll Tarly was one of the best commanders in westeros along with stannis I hope D & D take that into account and the idiot daenerys does not win so easily.

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    22. Inga,

      Good point, and I’d totally forgotten about Lady Olenna, so maybe he’ll be burnt to a cinder by a certain winged behemoth?

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    23. Jan,

      That’s what I am saying: neither the Mongols, nor any other nomads of the Eurasian Step were anything like the Dothraki. They had their own shortcomings, if that’s the right word, but in general in the medieval times they were not more uncivilized than the Western Europeans, who were not that civilized too. And they had their own code, and loyalty to their own kin (unless they got engaged into some game of thrones), and after all it was the nomads who taught the Western Europeans to wear pants and use stirrups, which caused a major shift in almost every sphere of life eventually. So, with all the respect to GRRM, his vision of the Dothraki is not very successful to say the least, and when they are continuously compared to the Mongols, the only consolation that remains to the real modern Mongols is that at least they have no Mongolian facial features.

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    24. So could the scene of Jacob Anderson in Almodovar del Rio (Highgarden) take place after the ambush, once the Unsullied have taken Highgarden?

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    25. Catspaw Assassin,

      Aye, that seems inevitable. But that would be sad, and Sam will never have a chance to show his disapproving father that he indeed managed to become a brave man and a true fighter against all odds. And he admired Dany so much… But that is GoT with all it shades of grey or rather shades of red, because it’s red which is the color of the blood.

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    26. Aemon,

      I wouldn’t count on the Unsullied to take Highgarden. Grey Worm may come there for parlay or it will be the Casterly Rock scene (at least that’s was the rumor). But in general I feel like the ambush battle won’t be that successful for Dany despite of the inspirations of the Battle of the Lake Trasimene. She will have to return to Dragontone, and Jaime will survive, which probably implies that Jaime will make it back to Highgarden and entrench there until Dany and her Dothraki horde retreats. Maybe, the Unsullied will be sent to Casterly Rock and succeed in sacking it which would equalize the odds, but the ambush battle itself will be a Pyrrhic victory, it seems.

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    27. Picky: Erm, where did you get this? As far as I know, there is nothing in the released/read chapters to suggest that… At this point you are making unwarranted inferences based on information from the show…and state them as actual facts. In the forthcoming book, the Queen of Thorns could very well die before or during the events at the Sept of Baelor…

      Look up the title for the season finale of season six and come back to me 😉

      Jan:
      It’s hard to believe that the Tarleys would go against their liege lord, the Tyrells.The Tarleys are supposed to be about loyality!

      They are supposed to be loyal to the Crown too. Whomever they choose in this war, they are breaking an oath. Every vassal for a rebellious Great House (Stark, Tully, Arryn, Tyrell, Greyjoy, or Martell-Sand) must make this choice.

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    28. Inga,

      But that is GoT with all it shades of grey or rather shades of red, because it’s red which is the color of the blood.

      Kinda makes you wonder if it’s healthy to be a fan of this show, doesn’t it? (⊙_◎)

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    29. I wonder what Dany will do regarding the remaining Tarlys, after this battle is over. According to the leaks

      Sam is going to cure Jorah’s greyscale. On top of that, Sam took care of Maester Aemon until the very end

      Hopefully she will just demand that Mama and sister tarly bend the knee and leave them and their lands alone.

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    30. Inga,

      GRRM has said repeatedly that no one historical era is portrayed in this story; it is an amalgam of many eras and many cultures. The Dothraki are based, in part, on the nomadic Great Plains Native American cultures who did indeed fight bare chested and on horseback.

      Please, everyone: keep the vitriol out of the comments. This has always been such a great site because there are very few sniping or snap-hatred posts. Keep it civil, please. No one is an idiot or a moron here. Namaste.

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    31. I don’t know why everyone is surprised that the Tarlys “betray” the Tyrells. The Tyrells are all dead and Olenna is a Redwyne (not a Tyrell). They aren’t under any obligation to follow her and they’re also sworn to the Crown and faced with the possibility of a Dothraki invasion (whose practices Robert mentioned in season 1). Of course the show will probably present the Tarlys as unreasonable for this *eyeroll*

      I wish we could see the Hightowers and their army on the show. I’m all for new armor and sigils and stuff lol. RIP all those soldiers that would have been useful to fight WW.

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    32. jdtargstark,

      Good old Maester Aemon. I’ve watched the first season episode “Baelor” three times this month mostly for the great scene in which Jon realizes who Aemon is, or was. And it didn’t hurt that the grand old veteran Peter Vaughan, who’s first television performance was in 1954, was perfectly cast.

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    33. Luka Nieto,

      Re Tarlys and oaths: Cersei is a woman. She took over after killing everyone, including the High Septon, including the remaining Tyrells, people Tarly owes allegiance to. Her sole ally, Euron, is hated on Westeros. Even with Euron, she is extraordinarily weak when compared with Dany. Tarly does not owe Cersei anything, as she’s not his liege lord. Tarly has no reason to side with Cersei for practical reasons, as she’s obviously the losing side.

      The show overpowered Dany to a ridiculous degree, and is now trying to equalize the situation vs Cersei. Problem is, Cersei is so mad, her rule so illegitimate, and her power so, so weak that her being able to gain a traditionalist like Tarly is incomprehensible for me.

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    34. Flayed Potatoes,

      There is still hope that we’ll see some new houses from the Riverlands next season: they mentioned that the Blackfish and the BwoB were not the only ones who rebelled against the Freys and the Lannisters respectively. I wonder ho that will play.

      Ashara D,

      I am not spilling vitriol; I am just saying that there is an inconsistency: GRRM had to give the Dothraki a proper armament, just as he had to give the Ironborn proper woods. I can close my eyes on that, because it’s a fantasy show, I can pretend that the great woods of the Iron Islands simply don’t get into the picture, and i can live with that weird combination of the drop-shaped shields and plate armor etc. I watch and love the show for its characters and their interactions and I can live with some plot-holes like the Dothraki being inspired by Great Plains Native American cultures who barely learned riding before they were extinct. But we all want perfection and when we see a plot hole we are entitled to admit it. After all, I started commenting only after someone made a uneducated guess that the shields the southern “summer knights” were worse than the rectangular Bolton shields. It’s nothing wrong about making uneducated guesses about the thing that are so distant from our real life, but as someone educated I just had to clarify things. And I never intended to offend anyone.

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    35. A great line from the season one episode The Wolf and the Lion, which I’m watching at the moment and is of course chock full of great lines: “North or south, they sing no songs for spiders.”

      It’s my sincerest hope that Varys gets one more scene bandying bon mots with Littlefinger. That scene between them in the throne room is just so good.

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    36. Inga,

      Sam doesn’t need his father now. He’ll become the new lord tarley, and perhaps lord of high garden to, with a wildling wife and a Maesters chain – with his father turning in his grave.

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    37. maria,

      You are right: it would be weird, if Randyl went on Cersei’s side without giving a second thought. But we don’t know the context: maybe, Olenna straightforwardly offends him (spite is her style, after all). Or maybe the sack of Highgarden will involve some different twist, though I don’t see much potential for that to be frank. Or maybe Dany will be already losing at that point: I mean that something can and should happen in Dorne in the first episodes… So, I hope that Randyl’s choices will be motivated properly.

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    38. Simon,

      Everyone need a father and a mother and a happy ending and a world peace. Anyway, I don’t see Sam being happy about his father’s and brother’s death.

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    39. Prediction: After being rebuffed by Sansa, Petyr Baelish will retreat in a sulk to the Eyrie and develop a huge crush on Mord. Here’s hoping that will be in the book and not the show.

      😉

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    40. Catspaw Assassin,

      There were so many great scenes between Varys and Littlefinger: my favorite was in The Climb, but there are so few chances for their meeting before they bite the dust. The showrunners could at least do some kind of montage with them sparring virtually.

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    41. I’m surprised that the tarleys are aligned with the lannisters instead of the targarians as house tarley was one of the last to surrender to house barratheon during robs rebellion

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    42. Inga,

      They were especially devious in that episode. And the scene in which Sansa watches Baelish’s ship sail away from KL is quite emotional and was one that got me truly hooked on the show.

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    43. Inga: I can live with some plot-holes like the Dothraki being inspired by Great Plains Native American cultures who barely learned riding before they were extinct.

      I fail to understand how an inspiration can be a plot-hole.

      Also, as far as I know, the Comanches lived in the Great Plains and had a horse culture.

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    44. Not to brag, but me and Daenerys Targaryen have one thing in common: we’ve both eaten a horse’s heart.

      On second thought, maybe it was an underdone buffalo wing. But we both have white hair, so there’s that.

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    45. Tarlys followed the Tyrells in rebelling against the crown before, when they backed Renly in the WOTFK. And that was against Joffrey who had a much stronger claim than Cersei, who can’t base her claim on any line of succession but is on the Iron Throne solely because she blew a bunch of people up.

      Also, Randyll Tarly fought for Dany’s father a couple of decades ago, so I don’t see how he would be hateful toward her or her family. He was only in one scene last year, so not sure where the detailed personality profiles here are coming from about his attitude toward foreigners in general (as opposed to the wildlings, who he claims to hate because they’ve been in conflict with the Seven Kingdoms for centuries).

      So yeah, this plot probably won’t make any sense.

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    46. I was ways under the impression that the Dothraki were inspired by the Mongols. Khal=khan. Tributary cities and all that jazz. Native Americans didn’t adopt horses until they were introduced to the continent by Europeans.

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    47. Inga,

      You’re right, it’s difficult to figure out how it’ll work without seeing the episode. I can see Dany’s side losing a battle, so long as Dany is not with them. I do not find it possible for Dany to outright lose vs Cersei, however. OK, the Red Comet can fall on Dragonstone and smoosh her armies and dragons, but barring some weird act of the Seven, she wins.

      Also, may her initial losses, if any, be believable, and not the kind of fake peril she experienced with the Dothraki before she set the bad guys on fire and the survivors fell down and worshiped her.

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    48. Looks fascinating, would be interesting to see how Dothraki handle it, eg may need to do Archery tactics as charging in with Arakh won’t work well

      Guess they’ve got the Archers behind to shoot back

      Would be interesting to see Unsullied vs these Lannister/Tarly formations

      As for Tarly’s jumping ship, guess we understand the whole “hunting with Lord Umber” thing as the line was to put Umber and Tarly’s in the same boat and kinda foreshadow what Randyll Tarly was going to do

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    49. I’m not surprised the extras are pissed off after reading this:

      Despite the smiles from the Malpartida cast, apparently some of the extras are not happy at all with the treatment they have received on set. Modexpor, who handle the hiring of extras in Spain, has been sued for breach of contract. Pablo Serrano and forty other extras have filled a formal complaint to the Work Inspectorate, alleging unpaid overtime, unpaid transport to Malpartida, as well as unnecessarily harsh conditions in these 15-hour days, such as the production giving them almost no time for lunch. When Serrano asked a Modexpor representative about overtime, she reportedly answered: “No matter how many hours you work, you’ll get paid the same. There is no overtime.”

      I have worked in a multinational organization in Spain where the local employees worked under Spanish conditions and overseas staff (like me from the UK and others from Holland) got a much better deal over pay, overtime, etc.

      Spanish working conditions ‘suck’ and many people in normal jobs will only get given 6 month contracts to prevent them building up antiquity payments or permanent positions which were pensionable. Unemployment in Spain is huge and the governments in recent years have done nothing to improve the situation 🙁

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    50. Wtf are these rumors going on Twitter ?? I woke up to people saying that Rose and Kit broke up ? GamesNGuide confirmed it already. I know this is not GoT related but the press is saying he cheated on set with Emilia after they started shooting in Spain and I hate that idea so much I can’t stand it. Kit wouldn’t do that. He’s a better guy than this.
      I hope to God that this is fake.

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    51. Irina Stark,

      Grain of salt. Gossip is gossip. He and Rose have broken up repeatedly and gotten back together, he’s filming with Emilia and vultures love to latch on to stuff like that, true or not. Two good looking people working together and all that.

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    52. Irina Stark,

      GamesNguide? lol give me a break!! Ridiculous online gossip site????

      It is not a legit source and go on to talk about how the concert in Bilbao was a date and that the football game in Sevilla sort of was too even though practically the whole cast was there.

      Kit and Rose are very much together but Rose is in New York filming her new tv serie.

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    53. crimethink,
      You don’t know it won’t make any sense.Show is not the books.In the show House Tyrell is gone,only Olenna is left alive.So it makes perfect sense for any lord to join with the crown at this point.I would probably do the same.Nothing weird here.

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    54. Wimsey: That stated, I wonder how quickly the Tarleys will learn that Highgarden’s forces have defected? One would think that things would be very much in disarray for a while.

      Surely the events in KL would be known through out Westeros very quickly, very quickly.
      Logically that should lead every allegiance in Westeros , except a few, even in the Westerlands to rebel against the crown. Logic would say that Jamie should have abounded Cersei , yet that kind of logic is hard put on the show.

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    55. Irina Stark,

      Some people just want them together and creating these rumours. It happened many times over the past few years.

      I am not sure Emilia is in Belfast, Iain or even Kit. Maisie, Liam, Nathalie and others flw out of Belfast. For Citadel you need other actors and same for DS. No Peter, Nathalie or Liam.

        Quote  Reply

    56. maria,

      Yes, and a traditionalist such as Randyll would instead follow the Tyrells, now also a house ruled by a woman (one who can’t produce any male heirs anymore), who isn’t even related by blood to the Tyrells, because…?

        Quote  Reply

    57. Boojam: Surely the events in KL would be known through out Westeros very quickly, very quickly.
      Logically that should lead everyallegiance in Westeros ,except a few, even in the Westerlands to rebel against the crown. Logic would say that Jamie should have abounded Cersei , yet that kind of logic is hard put on the show.

      I see this everywhere.All this is corect if Dany wouldn’t have atacked.Cersei would be a goner,no one would want her except her own men.But this is the irony,it’s Dany that at first will keep Cersei in a good position because of the invasion.Lords will fight for themselves,their families and Westeros,not for Cersei.When a horde comes to destroy your house,kill your sons and rape your daughters you don’t care who sits the throne anymore.Sure Dany could just burn KL to the ground.Ironically again it will be Tyrion and the Starks that will stop Dany from doing that.

        Quote  Reply

    58. maria:
      Luka Nieto,

      Problem is, Cersei is so mad, her rule so illegitimate, and her power so, so weak that her being able to gain a traditionalist like Tarly is incomprehensible for me.

      When your kingdom is invaded by foreign hordes chances are you’ll fight against them.Simple as that.It is exactly Dany’s invasion that keeps Cersei in power.

        Quote  Reply

    59. Irina Stark,

      Irina don’t believe these “articles”. I have read some articles like this. It said that they saw them together in football game between Sevilla and Barcelona…. No sense……. Only thing they want is just a click in their websites.. ……..

        Quote  Reply

    60. Luka Nieto,

      I know right? I wish more people would get this. Olenna isn’t a Tyrell and the Tarlys are under no obligation to serve her.

      Ser Gerold Dayne,

      Exactly. Heck, I’d join Cersei too if I was threatened by a foreign horde whose well-known practices include burning villages, pillaging my lands and raping. Fans only see things through Dany’s perspective and can’t imagine why someone in Westeros would be against her, but the other characters involved don’t even know her and who knows what they might have heard about her time in Essos and her rule there.

        Quote  Reply

    61. Inga,

      Didn’t say happy. I said he gets everything his father and his vows refused him. And hey his father wanted to kill him. If Sam is unhappy it will be because his father was no father at all, but he’ll move on making his own way in the world.

        Quote  Reply

    62. Simon,

      And to think otherwise is to ignore the narrative so far – think Ramsey and Rouse, Theon and Balon , Tyrion and Tywyn , Jon and Rheagar, etc. The only good father we have met was Ned and he died in the first season.

        Quote  Reply

    63. Randyl Tarly is the typical example of the traditional man…….He was with Targaryen when they were the de facto rulers of Westeros…He supported them against the rebels, he was the only who defetead them but the Targaryen lost and a new king got the Iron Throne…..Cersei for him is the continuation of Baratheon line and as loyal to the Iron Throne and only…he supports her……
      Daenerys Targaryen and her Dothraki army as many say is something new and strange……a villain who come to conquer his land….. for him to not kneel to the Dragon Queen maybe is the ultimate act against a foreign army…….

        Quote  Reply

    64. And do not forget that Cersei is not only confronted with a Targaryen invasion (including barbarian Dothraki hordes), but also with a separatist uprisal in the North whose leader is openly allying with Wildlings and brought them south of the wall – what do you think the reaction of a man like Randyll Tarly will be?

        Quote  Reply

    65. maria,
      And others.

      IMO, we should also take into account the real worth of Dany’s army, because it you look at it form normal military perspective, it’s not that powerful at all. Of course, it’s very hard to analyze such things, because it’s a fantasy show and and all the real historical cultures and warfare tactics which are used as inspirations go here in one big mix, but anyway I’ll make a try (just don’t kill me, please).

      1) The bulk of Dany’s army is made of the Dothraki who are more like the American Prairie Tribes, than the Eurasian Step Tribes (though the American Prairie Tribes were different too). So, let’s say that the Dothraki are just the Dothraki: they fight bare-chested and their culture does not support loyalty or continuity of leadership/rule etc. To put it short, they are poorly organized and good only at individual combat. Do they have a chance against well organized and well armed knights of Westeros who are as good on horseback as the Dothraki themselves? No.

      2) The Unsullied are well organized and extremely disciplined, but based on what we saw during the BotB Westeros also has a well organized and disciplined infantry, and it has steel armor, whereas the Unsullied have only leather armor. Hence, the Westeros infantry are equal to the Unsillied (if not better).

      3) Dragons would be the only serious problem from the military POV, but not unbeatable. So, if someone rethinks all the experience Westeros has in fighting and killing dragons, some solution (technical or tactical) can be find as well.

      As for Dany’s allies in Westeros, it seems that we can take them out of the equation.

      So, why should and experienced commander like Randyl fear Dany’s army? It’s not unbeatable, it has many weaknesses, and he may try to give it a fight just because it would be interesting to fight the dragons and their queen (not to mention the grunge against Olenna, Sand Snakes, foreign hordes, etc.).

      Dany may be a breaker of chains, but Napoleon was also a breaker of chains and what he got in Spain or Russia? Not a very warm welcoming, I would say.

        Quote  Reply

    66. Inga,

      Randyll will be ambushed ,he and the lannisters has less man and there is a dragon against him. These 3 factors are more than enough to make him loose.

        Quote  Reply

    67. Guys I’m sorry this is completely off topic but I saw this on Reddit:

      “Rickon’s death scene referenced his first appearance in the series pilot, where he laughs at a poor archery shot before handing off arrows to the archer and running to stand by the target.”

      Mind blown. I hadn’t realised this before and don’t know if it was intentional by D&D. Sorry again about the irrelevance, carry on. xD

        Quote  Reply

    68. Ser Gerold Dayne: Sure Dany could just burn KL to the ground.Ironically again it will be Tyrion and the Starks that will stop Dany from doing that.

      Huh! I have completely missed the spoilers where Daenerys wants to burn down Kings Landing and StarkS (i.e., more than ONE) will stop her from doing that!

      Rhaenys Stark,
      Mind blown indeed! It will be awesome, once the series ic completed, to go back and watch from the beginning and pick up on countless foreshadowings! The rewatchability will be high with this one!

        Quote  Reply

    69. Hello everyone,
      sorry if I’m going off topic but…
      I will be in Belfast between the 10th and the 14th of December.
      Is there any chance I’ll still be able to see anyone of the GoT cast there?

        Quote  Reply

    70. Geralt of Rivia,

      Rheagar is even worst than Tywin. Tywin never abandoned his kids, not even Tyrion. While Rhaegar got his children killed.

      The fact that Cersei blew up hundreds of people including the Tyrells heirs, and Randyl is still foolishly siding with her. The epitome of being blinded by greed and power.

        Quote  Reply

    71. Only Emilia and Kit are in Belfast.I read on twitter that Emilia’s brother posted a picture of Belfast studios yesterday.

      So both Emilia and Kit are probably filming THAT scene.lmao !

        Quote  Reply

    72. Rhaenys Stark,

      Thank you Rhaenys…. i will go to youtube to watch this scene again….. All series has a lot foreshadowing…. I was reading somewhere in reddit that many believe that all this scene with archery and Bran has something to do wit with the finale …….

        Quote  Reply

    73. Aguero,

      Aye, Dany will be ambushing, but Jaime and Randyl will be baiting her too. I am pretty sure that there will be some anti-dragon weaponry hidden in those wagons. So, even if she gains control over the battle field, she will have to return to Dragonstone with the tail between her legs. BTW, I am not a Dany hater and I would have wished her a better course of war, but it’s just what the spoilers imply.

        Quote  Reply

    74. Abbie,

      Huh. Last I checked, Tywin was the one who directly ordered the murder of Rhaegar’s kids, and more recently sentenced his own son to death over a crime he knew he didn’t commit. It’s weird, I never realized that those actions were more morally upstanding than leaving your wife for another woman, or that Tywin could be completely absolved of all personal responsibility for his decision to sack King’s Landing. Can we add Robb to the list of morally reprehensible tyrants and awful fathers? Breaking his oath for another woman basically cost the lives of his wife, mother, unborn child, and most of his army. I would hate to place the burden of responsibility for the Red Wedding on the men who actually orchestrated it when Robb should have totally foreseen that mass murder was the natural consequence of going back on a marriage agreement.

      It’s just funny because the real source of the Rhaegar hate is so obvious no matter how much people try to dress it up.

        Quote  Reply

    75. Inga,

      1) Dothraki are not poorly organized,during the final battle with the tall men they tricked and traped the bulk of the enemy army who had a bunch of knights,they slaughtered them with horse archers.And lets not forget how many knights do the lannisters have?dothraki have about mounted 100 000 screamers and half of the lannisters knights were killed during the battles with Robb Stark also most of Westerosi army are peasants recruited from the fields,a very small part of the army are knights.If there was 1 knight vs 1 dothraki i would bet on the knight,but if there is 5 dothraki vs 1 knight then its gg since the dothraki have more numbers.

      2)Unsullied are considered the best infantry for a reason,as with westerosi armies see my point above.

      3)To kill dragons you need to paper it down with archers and scorpions,of course this is very hard,and since the battles will have dothraki the lannisters archers cant focused down 3 large dragons.

      4)why? the Highgarden isnt the entire Reach,the Reach army is prob scattered but it isnt destroyed they could reform,just like after the red wedding the Blackfish reformed the Tully army.And what about Dorne they resisted dragons,the lannisters cant do two shits about them.

        Quote  Reply

    76. Abbie,

      Rhaegar was irresponsible fool but who was the one to order their murder? Tywin. He’s not a good man and never was. Also, sentencing his own son to death in front of people.

      elybe,

      Yeah, but Rhaegar was also foolish. Lead along with Aerys his House to certain death but not on level like these men. Roose, Balon, Tywin all the are worse more than Rhaegar. But don’t like also people idolizing him.

        Quote  Reply

    77. BlueRoseofWinterfell:
      Rhaenys Stark,

      Thank you Rhaenys…. i will go to youtube to watch this scene again….. All series has a lot foreshadowing…. I was reading somewhere in reddit that many believe that all this scene with archery and Bran has something to do wit with the finale …….

      I don’t go to Reddit so I don’t know what is being said there. However, I have been thinking for a while that archers will play a huge role in the battle against the WW and Sam will be a key player. Sam’s family sigil is an archer. Sam can continue to practice archery with Gilly (who probably takes the place of a certain someone I wish he would meet at the Citadel!), who knows how to use a bow and arrow to hunt. Sam knows about dragonglass. Put it all together, and you have a brave man who who has already killed a WW leading archers with dragonglass arrowheads.

        Quote  Reply

    78. Inga,

      Besides the armament, I hope we will see the bows mentioned by Maester Luwin. I don’t see how riders with swords only could defeat heavy infantry, unless they’re always attacking from the back (but then the infantry can just make a square).

      And maybe the references of king Robert in season one come to play: Daenerys wins the field battles, but cannot take the castles… unless she would decide to use dragon fire, of course.

        Quote  Reply

    79. Geralt of Rivia,

      Of course he was foolish. There were tons of more rational ways to go about this than suddenly disappearing with a betrothed woman from one of the most powerful houses in Westeros. I just think it’s priceless when an act of selfishness and immature idealism gets elevated to the same heights as calculated mass murder.

        Quote  Reply

    80. Rhaenys Stark:
      Guys I’m sorry this is completely off topic but I saw this on Reddit:

      “Rickon’s death scene referenced his first appearance in the series pilot, where he laughs at a poor archery shot before handing off arrows to the archer and running to stand by the target.”

      Mind blown. I hadn’t realised this before and don’t know if it was intentional by D&D. Sorry again about the irrelevance, carry on. xD

      There are so many of these – it will be interesting to go back once the show is finished and pick them all up. Completely different circumstances, and she wasn’t running towards him, but there are also some similarities with Ygritte’s death; Jon is forced to watch as both she and Rickon are hit from behind with an arrow.

        Quote  Reply

    81. Ser Gerold Dayne: I see this everywhere.All this is corect if Dany wouldn’t have atacked.Cersei would be a goner,no one would want her except her own men.But this is the irony,it’s Dany that at first will keep Cersei in a good position because of the invasion.Lords will fight for themselves,their families and Westeros,not for Cersei.When a horde comes to destroy your house,kill your sons and rape your daughters you don’t care who sits the throne anymore.Sure Dany could just burn KL to the ground.Ironically again it will be Tyrion and the Starks that will stop Dany from doing that.

      In the books there were Westeros Targ loyalists, an element the show does not have time for.
      Amazing that the Faith Militant had such influence yet everybody drops any thought of it, in the realm, after it has been betrayed.

        Quote  Reply

    82. Inga,

      This is not true. Robert was concerned enough about the Dothraki to want to kill Dany. One could argue that was all about the dragonspawn thing but he specifically mention his concern about a Dothraki horde crossing. The are a 100000 member strong mounted calvary. They are feared throughout Essos to the point that some cities give them slaves horses and gold to keep them from sacking their city. I guess to you none of the forces in Essos are comparable to those in Westeros. As for the Unsullied; Jorah said some considered them to be the greatest warriors on the planet and Oberyn said they were very impressive on the battlefield. I guess they just don’t have your military expertise. The dragons are a huge threat. I have my degree in Biology but I am a combat veteran of the Iraq war and I know something about combined arms. In fact it’s the driving idea behind all USMC war doctrine. Danny is the only power on their planet that is known that has the ability to project power across an ocean and bring the might of combined arms to the enemy. She has a navy army and air force. Now her navy can’t bombard a target with preparatory indirect fire but it does allow her to project her power across the continent and really the world. Her dragons serve as close air support to overcome any perceived advantage Cersei has on the ground. (In my opinion she has no advantage.) In actuality it shouldn’t be close but it will be to build drama.

        Quote  Reply

    83. elybe,

      Tywin, whom was treated horribly by Aerys, decided to join the winning team and secure their win.

      I believe Twyin first option was for Tyrion to be sent to the wall. It was Tyrion who rejected that.
      Tywin was cruel but Rheagar’s act lead to more deaths including his own family.

      Meh I didn’t fancy Paris from TROY either. I am just not a fan of characters like that.

        Quote  Reply

    84. Kay: Huh! I have completely missed the spoilers where Daenerys wants to burn down Kings Landing and StarkS (i.e., more than ONE) will stop her from doing that!

      Rhaenys Stark,
      Mind blown indeed! It will be awesome, once the series iccompleted, to go back and watch from the beginning and pick up on countless foreshadowings! The rewatchability will be high with this one!

      I sort of like the Robert touched so in so Stark theory, He rubbed Rickons hair, kissed Cat, hugged Ned, shook hands with Robb; they’re all dead.

        Quote  Reply

    85. Randyll Tarly’s defection is not as surprising as the Umbers’

      The Sam-Gilly adventure to Horn Hill was setting up/foreshadowing Randyll’s reason to fight against the Dany-led Dothraki “savages”. The Reach has more than just the Tyrells and Tarlys, they better have a logical reasoning how this new Lannister-Tarly alliance takes over Highgarden. Something more than Bronn and his 10 good men with climbing spikes.

        Quote  Reply

    86. Luka Nieto,

      …because she is truly the sole survivor. Because she didn’t blow up a sept in order to kill a High Septon and Tarly’s liege lord. Because she didn’t blow up her own uncle. Because incest rumors are not swirling about her. Because she’s looking for righteous vengeance against the mad woman, the fake queen, who did all of those things. And because she is sane and smart and her alliance with Dany makes her powerful enough to carry through whatever promises she makes Tarly in return for his alliance. Tarly could ask Olenna or Dany for the Reach, and receive it, what with the Tyrells being totally dead. Cersei? She’s weak, unpredictable, and untrustworthy. Even if she wins, she can’t be trusted to fulfill her promises.

        Quote  Reply

    87. keltia,

      That’s what I get for starting with/”supporting” the bottom of this post. When I scrolled up, I found that Myname (of course) had already posted the Instagram link. (My remark about parents still holds true, however.)

        Quote  Reply

    88. keltia:
      sebaciel,

      Following up on your photo, here’s a reminder why it’s good to hang out with your parents:

      https://www.instagram.com/p/BNR7OH5jFY2/

      I love that Kit is so much more comfortable with photos etc this year. Actually, pretty much the entire cast seems pretty laid back and welcoming. I’m not someone who freaks out around celebrities, but buying one of them a drink or some nachos or something would be a lot of fun!

        Quote  Reply

    89. Abbie,

      It’s hilarious that you think Tywin actually intended to send Tyrion to the Wall. Or that you’re trying to exonerate him for committing treason against Aerys (for personal reasons, I would remind you, not just a turning of the tide) in an effort to place Rhaegar’s illicit romance on equal footing. Classic.

      Sorry, but none of these arguments hold up. Rhaegar is responsible for disappearing with Lyanna and giving the finger to the consequences, but the individual players need to be held accountable for the choices they made during Robert’s Rebellion. The Mountain killed Rhaegar’s wife and kids on Tywin’s orders. That’s on him. End of story.

      You don’t have to like Rhaegar. He fucked up plenty. But trying to shift the blame for every character’s actions before and during Robert’s Rebellion onto him is as ridiculous as trying to claim that Catelyn is responsible for every death during the War of Five Kings just because she took Tyrion hostage without proof. Good luck standing up in a court of law and trying to pin a series of murders on an adulterer on the grounds that his affair hurt the actual killers’s feelings.

      TOPIC: We know that Kit and Emilia are in Belfast, but Iain Glen was spotted there a few days ago as well, and as far as I’m aware he wasn’t one of the cast members who was seen leaving. That’s not to say he didn’t, but we also know that they’re going to start filming in Wolf Hill Quarry soon, so I expect that anyone involved in that sequence will be turning up over the next few days.

        Quote  Reply

    90. Emma:
      Only Emilia and Kit are in Belfast.I read on twitter that Emilia’s brother posted a picture of Belfast studios yesterday.

      So both Emilia and Kit are probably filming THAT scene.lmao !

      Bwahahahaha!! I find it hilarious that production may have cleared out the studio of other cast so Kit and Emilia could film that scene. This shit better be epic.

        Quote  Reply

    91. Flayed Potatoes,

      In the books (and i guess in the show too) many houses from the Reach like to complain about the Tyrells and that their own house has stronger family ties with house Gardener (the royel house of Highgarden before the Targs). I think Selyse’s house ,house Florent is one of them.I don’t know if house Tarly is one of them too, but the Tyrells where only stewards before Ageon I ,so i guess many houses of the Reach are older than them or more closer to the former royal line .

        Quote  Reply

    92. Geralt of Rivia,

      That’s right he may have been a good dad but he wasn’t in Jons life. However his actions helped start a war and he did abandon his children to Ron off with our blue rose of the North. Actions tha eventually contributed to their death. I’m just saying father Son/daughter relationships are never simple in GOT. Actually here is another father I forgot to mention – Craster.

        Quote  Reply

    93. BunBunStark,

      Memo from Podeswa to the rest of the cast: “I was going to give you guys a few days off, but now I think it’s best if you all just left the country. This is the third-biggest action sequence of the season, and I can’t have any distractions.”

        Quote  Reply

    94. Simon,

      Let’s not forger mothers too: Olenna treated her son as shit as well.

      But as for Rhaegar, IMO we just don’t know the whole story, so let’s wait with judgement until it is revealed.

        Quote  Reply

    95. keltia,

      Following up on your photo, here’s a reminder why it’s good to hang out with your parents:

      Great story, and I love how somebody just had to ask if Emilia Clarke was there.

        Quote  Reply

    96. Inga,

      I don’t think we do have to wait. Rhaegar has many qualities but like every character in this world he has many flaws. His love for Lyanna in part caused a war. He can’t be held accountable for that war but does bare some blame for those events coming to pass. His obsession with prophesy is a case in point. His pursuit of the ptwp again contributed to years of ongoing war and as such he is no better than Mel when she burns folks to her god. GRRM continual tells us that while religion can offer comfort it also has the ability to be a monsterous thing. In perusing a fickle prophesy RT opens up the gates of hell – good intentions and all.

        Quote  Reply

    97. Simon,

      He contributed to it but not like he did out of pleasure or so. Wouldn’t put him with Tywin, Roose or Balon. These men were in many cases evil men.

      BunBunStark,

      But GOT crew is there, like always many people behind cameras.

      elybe,

      Jorah will be probably creeping through the window on them.

      Catspaw Assassin,

      People want to know because of these rumours around them but cool how someone is able to to talk to Kit. He seems like a quite an intelligent man. I would ask him about what’s his secret with his hair.

        Quote  Reply

    98. Geralt of Rivia,

      But GOT crew is there, like always many people behind cameras.

      That’s why I specifically said cast. Of course crew will have to be there. Besides, most of us are joking about Podeswa running the cast out of town for the filming of this scene.

        Quote  Reply

    99. BunBunStark,

      It must be super weird to do these scenes with so many people around. Maybe they’re shooting the other private scene. They must be shooting at that icy lake location soon but maybe still preparing it.

        Quote  Reply

    100. Hursta1,

      Sorry, for not being able to answer you at once.

      Aey, I took a note that you are have been in Iraq from you earlier posts. I have a friend who was there too + in Afghanistan twice (first time under the Soviets), an he is very fond of military history too, so not that I claim to be a big expert, but I also know a thing or two, especially when it comes to medieval warfare.

      As for what Robert said about the Dothraki back in S1, it was the comparison between the power of five fingers and one fist. Napoleon said something similar about being lucky, when you have to fight with coalitions. I don’t know the exact quote in English, but anyway the point is that unity and (or) coordination is always a major factor of success. Now whether Dany will be able to promote that unity of her forces, it’s very hard to say. I would rather bet on the opposite, because every entity in her army has its own goal or no goal at all. The Sand Snakes want’s to survive, Olenna wants vengeance; Yara wants the Iron Islands; the Unsullied want to pay the debt to their liberator; and the Dothraki follow Dany, because she showed them strength. How will they act, when problems occur is yet to be seen.

      And if you have been in Iraq, you should know better than anyone, that air-force doesn’t win the war, and neither do “boots on the ground”. People are not so much compelled to bow to dragons or missiles or E-bombs; to win a war you have to win people’s hearts, and that’s the hardest task. One mistake, and people may choose to die for some local tyrant rather than to bend a knee to a foreign liberator, despite of its best intentions. And that’s the problem I see with Dany: she has never done anything actively to win a single westerosi heart. Well, maybe Jorah was an exception, but both in case of Tyrion and Yara her initial stance was intimidation and even threatening, she wormed up only after a while. So, despite of the fact that she is a good person and she wants to be loved by her subjects, but she likes to play an almighty tyrant. And that may backfire. Tyrion will have to work on her PR I think.

        Quote  Reply

    101. Konna,

      House Tarly is definitely one of them. Sam’s mother is a Florent. The Tyrells are seen as upstarts by some of the older families in the Reach, so I’m not surprised by this turn of events.

        Quote  Reply

    102. Inga,

      Dany will win. She will then magnanimously put the salvation of humanity over her desire for the throne and make peace with Cersei, which Cersei will break. I think.

      Cersei is weak. She took over by outright murder, and I doubt that what’s left of Westeros recognizes her as a legitimate ruler. She has Jaime, a general who has been known to make mistakes (see Robb vs Jaime, season 1 or 2) and probably Euron, a guy hated by the entirety of Westeros, who has no presence on land, and who has wooden, flammable ships (remember dragons vs the slaver ships, last season). Lannister gold is running out, so she can’t afford to hire sellswords. The Iron Bank sided with Stannis, and could turn around and side with yet another, more promising ruler than Cersei.

      Meanwhile, very few alliances are left for Cersei. Martells and Tyrells are allied with Dany. The Vale is with the Starks, who will obviously ally with Dany in season 7. Stormlands are out of it. Riverlands are depopulated, hardly in a state to provide armies, with the Freys, Cersei’s allies, gone.

      She can’t go guerrilla, as the commoners most likely hate her. If it comes to urban warfare in King’s Landing, the populace will side with anyone but Cersei. I doubt that they’ll fight for her; I doubt if she’s able to leave the Red Keep.

      I’m not sure if it’s possible for Cersei to get weaker. Her one play might be to hold King’s Landing hostage. If Dany attacks the city, Cersei will burn it down. That could slow things down, but otherwise, she’s gone.

        Quote  Reply

    103. Maggie,

      Leak speculation

      We have discussed it with Wimsey, but you might be interested too. I have made some research recently, because indeed I know some real medieval families in which children shared the same name, and I was trying to find some records on the motivation. Well, hard evidences are often absent, but it looks that there was some oath or vow involved: like parents prayed to some saint and their prayers have been answered and then they felt obliged to name their child after that saint and if that child died they named the next one. Or even funnier: one not a very prominent family named 3 of their sons Johns: one after St. John the Baptist, another after St. John the Evangelist, the third after John Chrysostom; and seems like there were more Johns named after other St. Johns, but they all died young (to a great relief of the historians). But back to GoT, I just wanted to make a point that it was a real historical phenomenon and that GRRM might be playing with it: IMO Aegon’s name will be tied up with the PTWP prophesy or something.

        Quote  Reply

    104. maria,

      Yes, Dany will win, but only after she finds right allies in Westeros and proves that she is able to sacrifice her personal claims and ambitions for the good of the realm. In the beginning of the season IMO Cersei will be having an upper hand: terror combined with the right PR message can be a very powerful thing, and the showrunners might play on that.

        Quote  Reply

    105. Simon,
      Geralt of Rivia,
      elybe,
      Inga,

      Weighing in on Rhaegar, I judge him and judge him harshly. He was the one person uniquely placed to get rid of Mad King Aerys, the man who was willing to burn an entire city, the man who raped Rhaegar’s own mother every night, the man who burned men alive in the own armor, and instead of getting off his harp playing ass, he got wrapped up in prophecy and obsession with a “not like the other girls” Northerner.

      Rhaegar’s greatest sin is his dereliction of duty to the people of Westeros, in not taking out his father and putting his own, more qualified, ass on the Throne.

      And instead of ordering the KG who were loyal to him to stay in KL and clean up his mess should he die at in battle, he sent them to the Tower of Joy. Those men had sworn an oath to protect Aerys, and with Rhaegar’s death, Viserys became the next in line, yet they were picking their noses at the ToJ instead of upholding their oaths.

      Rhaegar was selfish and feckless.

      So yeah, whether Lyanna loved him or not, we know enough about him to judge him on his actions.

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    106. Inga,

      . As for what Robert said about the Dothraki back in S1, it was the comparison between the power of five fingers and one fist.

      It was a comment about how an army united under a single one can be when they go against amries of westeros who has been playing their games and has their own agendas..

      Like it or not dany commands a single united army of 160000 and who has no individual goals and ambitions ( iam talking about her army not her allies )…who is going against lords of westeros who have their own agendas and ambitions and have been playing on the game ….

      If you think the threat of a foreign invasion will unite westeros.. Then you are completely wrong ..

      Robert feared about the unity of westeros even then when westeros was one and facing the threat of dothraki invasion lead by a dothraki …

      Just imagine how robert will be afraid when it was a targ knwon to be Aegon the conqueror reborn who leads the dothraki and who also has unsullied and three dragons…
      Where the state of westeros as of now was severely wasted and damaged due to rebellions and civil wars who are in no way united or should be a threat ..

      And it seems its the very thing that you are arguing against

      Now whether Dany will be able to promote that unity of her forces, it’s very hard to say. I would rather bet on the opposite, because every entity in her army has its own goal or no goal at all

      Lol and the lords of westeros doesn’t have their own goals …you can say this about any army but you are saying this about an army who should be the least worried for their unity and loyalty and commanded under one person

      nd that’s the problem I see with Dany: she has never done anything actively to win a single westerosi heart.

      Hmm maybe that’s because she has never been to westeros until now…
      You to realize that you are talking about a characters who has been shown to winning people over who has shown remarkable charisma and empathy towards the people and make people believe in her ..you think she will not know what to do when it comes to westerosi people

      Since you have brought up winning people’s heart …I wonder how many characters have done that in the story so far ..I must have missed how cersei and randyl tarly won their people over..

      but both in case of Tyrion and Yara her initial stance was intimidation and even threatening, she wormed up only after a while.

      And I guess tyrion and yara were so warm and lovely and nothing but nice to dany straightaway right ..besides they are not common people they are Lords and ladies of westeros..

      but she likes to play an almighty tyrant

      Lol even if this is true …its how she deals with lords of westeros who is been playing the game and not to her subjects ..

      . Tyrion will have to work on her PR I think.

      As if tyrion is someguy who has good PR for himself..and as if dany doesn’t know what to do or how to act on her own

      If you are really speaking about how the westeros might view dany as foriegn invader despite what we have come to know about her then shouldn’t we be doing the same with tyrion ..because for westerosi he is not a saint we come to know in show… Remember demon monkey anyone …
      He must start working on getting good PR himself..

      If anyone from dany side who can connect to common people or win them over its going to be dany because she is the one who who has shown more compassion and empathy towards those people and has the charisma and mind …
      More over it will not be some PR act when it comes to dany like Margery did because she Cares about the people for Real and not acting…

      .Dany will win, but only after she finds right allies in Westeros

      Lol in other words Jon… you mean the only right ally who could bring victory to dany is Jon if she is willing to accept him as rightful heir and pledge the men she commands and leads which is nearly equal to 160,000 ….oh I get it they are totally useless right..

      she is able to sacrifice her personal claims and ambitions for the good of the realm.

      I guess you have missed the whole slavers bay storyline because if you didn’t you would know she is one of the few characters who cares about the people and has proven she can put aside her own ambitions and wishes for the people

      . because every entity in her army has its own goal or no goal at all…the Unsullied want to pay the debt to their liberator; and the Dothraki follow Dany, because she showed them strength. How will they act, when problems occur is yet to be seen.

      How they have always been known to acting …stand by their leader which you seem to can’t accept…

      And this to seem be very lame attempts if you are going to label them everyone under her as either having a goal or goal less …if you are going to rip apart her army as nothing but waste of paper ..please do the same for others will you ..what will their armies do when they come to face probelms and do tell how these armies don’t have own goal for themselves and how the queens and Lords of westeros have been winning peoples heart over so far..

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    107. maria,

      Leaks spoilers.

      Magnanimously put salvation of humanty over the Iron Throne.

      Like you mean Jon will try convince two stubborn sides that there’s more to fight for, right? Loss of Viserion. Cersei will then backstab them.

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    108. Inga,

      Close air support is a game changer. If you’ve ever seen it up close you would know. It saves lives for one side and takes them on the other. An attacking force with CAS will always beat one that doesn’t. What good is a shield wall when you can just burn it away? [Spoiler] AA may be a concern but that’s why you have ground troops. Take the guns destroy them. [/spoiler] Why do you think air superiority is so important?
      What are these specific goals that the dothraki have, the unsullied? How are they different and how are they not Danys goals? The unsullied are hers through and through. They’ve never once displayed anything other than devotion to their queen. The dothraki have been shown to be somewhat devious but they all just hit their knees. As for command and control Grey Worm has been a soldier and leader all his life. Do you believe tactics were a part of that training? The dothraki have existed for a good long while. They’ve been raiding and warring all that time. Do you not believe they haven’t got any seasoned commanders? Like someone pointed out many of these criticisms can just as easily be made of the Westerosi armies.

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    109. Inga,
      The vitriol comment wasn’t directed at you in particular, hence the new paragraph and the use of the word, “everyone.”

      You are of course entitled to your opinion–that’s what this site is all about. But just because something bugs you in the show because you expect it to adhere to a standard that doesn’t exist in this world does not make it a plot hole. The costuming (yes, costuming) is top notch on this show and makes sense in the world without being typical fantasy, over-the-top ridiculousness. It is not historically acurate to our world. I’m glad you value your knowledge of medieval armaments, but it really doesn’t apply. And, as an educated person myself, I think cases can be made anthropologically for the development of the Dothraki culture’s weapons within the context of Planetos.

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    110. Vally,
      ya, ma in history my arse, they didn’t even know the spanish introduced horses in N. america and that many indian groups has centuries of master horsemanship…huns/mongols/indians all are closest representatives to real life. also they’re a kneeler standing up for flowery southrons and you know they say a southrons tongue is fancy, and sharper than their swords.{minds)

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    111. Weighing in on Rhaegar, I judge him and judge him harshly. He was the one person uniquely placed to get rid of Mad King Aerys, the man who was willing to burn an entire city, the man who raped Rhaegar’s own mother every night, the man who burned men alive in the own armor, and instead of getting off his harp playing ass, he got wrapped up in prophecy and obsession with a “not like the other girls” Northerner.

      Rhaegar’s greatest sin is his dereliction of duty to the people of Westeros, in not taking out his father and putting his own, more qualified, ass on the Throne.

      And instead of ordering the KG who were loyal to him to stay in KL and clean up his mess should he die at in battle, he sent them to the Tower of Joy. Those men had sworn an oath to protect Aerys, and with Rhaegar’s death, Viserys became the next in line, yet they were picking their noses at the ToJ instead of upholding their oaths.

      Rhaegar was selfish and feckless.

      So yeah, whether Lyanna loved him or not, we know enough about him to judge him on his actions.

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    112. Inga,

      you seem to be very focused solely on the defensive positive aspects of armor and completely write off the positive benefits of light armor or the weakness of heavy armor. bannockburn, stirling bridge, agincourt…………remember these? where strategic commanders used their enemies greatest strength against them! lightly armored troops massacred how many english/french heavy knights BECAUSE they were immobile, stuck in mud/marsh or simply drown. 100,000 and up, heavy horse destroyed by far less numbers made up of light troops. you cannot just pick and choose the benefits of one armor and cherry pick them as steel is stronger than gambeson therefore i win. a real historian would have an encompassing vision of medieval battle tactics.

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    113. HotPinkLipstick,

      Um it’s not that easy to unthrone the king.Maybe Rhaegar didn’t have the support to do that yet and he didn’t want to be a kinslayer and also he knew how bad targ civil wars have been in the past.Everything Rhaegar does is so plot driven it’s hard to even judge or get the measure of him as a character but if he thought that he was Saving the world than that would override anything.Also the KG are just people.There were plenty of guards to protect his family in KL.Lyanna and the baby on the other hand needed them.He needed someone to protect the messiah.Also how do you know they weren’t upholding their vows?Isn’t their duty to protect the king?

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    114. maria,

      That would make Randyll a shrewed player of the game. You described him as a traditionalist, which is pretty much the opposite. A true traditionalist would be lost right now; They would have as much (or little) reason to follow Olenna as Cersei. Honestly, I don’t think Randyll is in fact as much as a traditionalist as you painted him; I think he wants to think that, though. I think he sees a foreign queen with a foreign army, and the alternative is Cersei, and he’ll go with Cersei.

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    115. Hursta1,
      aegongiantsbane,
      And others.

      Don’t get me wrong: I am not trying to put Dany down. I am just trying to find an answer why Cersei will be still holding the Iron Throne in Ep 7, because the odds are clearly against her. And that implies that we should look for potential weaknesses and shortcomings in Dany’s army, right? Repeating that she has cavalry and infantry and fleet and air-force won’t help much, because indeed she has all that, and if she screws up (and she apparently will), what will that mean? She is a bad commander, right?
      I just don’t want all the blame to put on her, and even less I want all her misfortunes to be forced upon the story out of the blue, because then the blame will lie on D&D (and GRRM).
      So, I just thank you all for the discussion. I am too busy now to continue it. Maybe we will have a chance to return to it later, when we get more spoilers, or at least when the show airs.

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    116. Jenny,

      It’s the messiah stuff that really screwed RT up. When has a messiah ever made the world a better place. Just another warrior king or Demi god to fuck over other people’s lives especially those who don’t tow the line. Jon may help save Westeros, not because he might be tptwp but because he sees the humanity in everyone and because he cares. Great thing is is that Martin has placed Jon at the edge of nothing and brought him back Knowing all the bullocks about paradise and gods means diddly squat.

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    117. Inga:
      Maggie,

      Leak speculation

      Or even funnier: one not a very prominent family named 3 of their sons Johns: one after St. John the Baptist, another after St. John the Evangelist, the third after John Chrysostom; and seems like there were more Johns named after other St. Johns, but they all died young (to a great relief of the historians).

      I don’t know from which country this medieval family you read about is from, but in my country if you name your child after those three Saints, it’s three different names.
      Only after St. John the Baptist children are named John.
      After St. John the Evangelist children are named Theologos and after John Chrysostom they are called Chrysostomos.

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    118. BlueRoseofWinterfell,

      Oh, it’s not a secret, if you are interested: the country is Poland, the family is that of Jan Długosz (who was probably the most prominent 15th century historian in the entire region); there were at least three Długosz brothers named Johns (Jans in Polish) and the father was also Jan, and all of them hold certain positions and were randomly mentioned in the chronicles, so you can imagine what a riddle it was to sort out which Jan was which. There are quite extensive studies on that issue, unfortunately all in Polish, so hardly you will be interested in references. And I also won’t bet my life on the accuracy, because all that explanation about the motivations is more like a later legend than a hard evidence.
      Another example I can provide is Władysław II Jogaila of Poland and his 3 sons. The first one was named Władysław after St. Ladislaus I of Hungary, the second son was named Casimir after Caimir III the Great of Poland, because the Lithuanian dynasty felt a bit uncomfortable on the Polish throne. But as the boy died like 7 moths old the third on was also named Casimir (he had the second name Andrew, but it was never used and sank into oblivion, until the original baptizing record was discovered).
      I haven’t had time to make to extend the research to Western Europe, but if it really becomes relevant to GoT plot maybe some research will be worth doing.

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    119. Inga,

      Thank you Inga….I love history very much. One thing that i adored in GOT is that is SCi-Fi fantasy book based in some historical events ….I don’t know things from Poland’s history (except Poland in WW II ) so i didn’t know this fact.. …….

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    120. Jenny,

      The table had been set for Rhaegar to get the support of the lords at the Tourney at Harrenhal. Aerys showed up being super crazy and then proceeded to essentially steal the heir of a major house by naming him to the Kingsguard, Jaime. All of the lords were running scared at that point because Aerys had just shown that he was willing to take any heir at any time, regardless of his need to remain an ally with that house.

      By naming Jaime to the Kingsguard, Aerys lost the support of Tywin Lannister, his own Hand and head of the richest house in Westeros. The lords were looking for a reason and a way to get rid of Aerys.

      All Rhaegar had to do was win the tournament, behave like a King, crown his non-incestuous wife the Queen of Love and Beauty and, BAM, all the support he’d need.

      Instead of doing that, he decided not-like-the-other-girls Lyanna should be the QoLaB, making his own judgement suspect. The chess board was all set up for him to make the move and decided not to because Hot Chick.

      The Kingsguard was there to protect the King. Right. Aerys was the King. Rhaegar died before Aerys, therefore Viserys became Crown Prince. I’m not quite sure where Lyanna’s unborn fetus would have fallen in the line of succession, but at the time of the ToJ, Jon was just the bastard nephew of uncrowned King Viserys.

      No way would Lyanna and bastard nephew of the living King rank worthy of three Kingsguard.

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    121. HotPinkLipstick,

      Maybe because he thought saving the world was more important than what his father was doing at the moment?I doubt it was only because Lyanna was a hot chick.Rhaegar clearly had some communication problems but I wouldn’t call him malicious or make him responsible for every shitty thing that happened at least from what we know of second hand accounts of him.Actually when Rhaegar died Aegon became the heir not Viserys at least according to the law.Aerys might have thought differently.Anyway after their deaths the KG thought that the baby was their king not Viserys according to the law again.Most importantly the KG are people with their own minds.They swore an oath to the king and it was their choice how to uphold that vow.Even if Rhaegar told them to stay they didn’t have to.That’s on them.IIRC Gerold Hightower the LC wasn’t even close with Rhaegar and went to the ToJ later to find the others and he still stayed meaning Rhaegar must have persuaded him.Maybe because what he said was important.

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    122. You know, I think you’re right on the succession. So once Rhaegar died, the KG needed to get their asses back to King’s Landing to protect Aegon.

      The KG aren’t supposed to have their own minds. They weren’t supposed to have a choice whether or not to uphold the vow. That’s why the realm calls Jaime Lannister an Oathbreaker. Hightower even tells Jaime at one point that he’s not supposed to protect the Queen from the King and he’s supposed to ignore his own opinions on Aerys raping Rhaella. If the Kingsguard were supposed to do what they thought was right, then they wouldn’t have listened to the rapes or watched Rickard and Brandon Stark get wildfired in the Throne Room. A Kingsguard oath isn’t based on “if I feel like it today and it’s the right thing, I’ll chose to follow it.”

      And you’re making my point though. Rhaegar left the people of the realm vulnerable to the whims of a Mad King based on his fantasy of prophecy.

      I do think those Kingsguard are Oathbreakers and should be called such.

      But whatever. None of that excuses Rhaegar’s behaviors. He could have slipped his insane father poison long before Harrenhal. Instead, he allowed his own mother to be raped repeatedly. He was in the best position to know of his father’s insanity and stop it.

      And he chose to do nothing.

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    123. HotPinkLipstick,

      I don’t know if you have read the leaks for next season, but if you have,

      LEAK SPOILERS:

      Apparently, Rhaegar had set aside Elia and her children and married Lyanna, which made her son the heir to the IT. That could be why the KG were at the ToJ to guard Jon instead of going back to Aegon.
      This spoiler has not been confirmed so far of course, but nothing the leaker has said so far has been proved false.
      If this is true, it does seem to be a dick move by Rhaegar. I hope the show explains Rhaegar and Lyanna’s actions, I am curious as to what they were thinking during this period.

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    124. ghost of winterfell,

      I have

      and I’m seriously skeptical about a lot of them based on a lot of things I’m not going to get into here.

      However, Rhaegar was neglecting his duty to the people long before he set eyes on Lyanna.

      If we assume it’s by Rhaegar’s order, he left a teenager to guard the King, the Royal Family and hold the Red Keep so that an unborn child, could be protected by three. What a selfish asshole.

      Aerys madness had presented itself a long time ago. At the time of the Defiance of Duskenedale, Rhaegar is 18 (older than Jaime when Jaime killed Aerys), so he was old enough to have seen and known of that aftermath. Aerys was always horrible. It didn’t just happen during Robert’s Rebellion. Rhaegar saw it and knew it and did nothing to stop it all along.

      ‘Dick move’ is a practically praise when you consider the level of Rhaegar’s dereliction of duty.

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    125. HotPinkLipstick,

      Yoo must have missed some history lessons. Richard II inherited the English throne against his uncle John of Gaunt, though his father Edward the Black Prince died before Edward III (father to Edward the Black Prince and John of Gaunt and grandfather to Richard II). John I (the Posthumous) inherited the French throne against two of his uncles, etc.

      I don’t know which country you are from but if it lies in Europe or Americas you should probably do a walk of shame around your native secondary school.

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    126. Jenny,

      Kingsguard sworn duty is to protect the King and royal family. They vows and especially three honorable men like Ser Athur Dayne, Ser Gerold Hightower and Ser Oswell Whent. Yes, they do have their own minds but as KG they’re sworn to protect next King and royal family. They wouldn’t defend the bastard and Rhaegar’s mistress. Unless they have a good reason to believe he’s not illegitimate. Vows over their minds. They had their job clearly lined up.

      Jon being a bastard would mean they would have to get to defend Aegon or Viserys. Some say Viserys was crown or instructed by Aerys or Aegon as eldest son of Rhaegar. Whoever is the one to be a King, they would had to be there.

      ghost of winterfell,

      Leaks spoilers.

      Not only but also very illogical. He wanted third child and Elia couldn’t give him another, so he pursued Lyanna. Why then setting aside his first wife and kids, while taking on with another? Do you think Jon’s name is truly Aegon?

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    127. Inga,

      If you look, I acknowledged I was wrong on the line of succession, mea cupla. So you missed your lessons on reading to the end before commenting. You should join me in that walk of shame.

      It doesn’t matter though, my points on Rhaegar all still stand.

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    128. HotPinkLipstick,

      Again Rhaegar is not responsible for what the KG do.Their primary vow is to the King.That is how they choose to interpret that vow.Apparently their duty was at the ToJ.If I don’t blame Jaime for killing Aerys I’m not going to blame the other KG for choosing to stay with the baby.And you forget kinslaying is the worst crime you can ever commit.It’s not that easy to take that decision.Not to mention it’s possible Rhaegar didn’t have the lords support yet.They were quite busy playing matchmaking.And you call it a fantasy of prophecy but that’s what he believed in.If you are seriously convinced it is your duty to produce the next messiah doesn’t that put everything in second plan?

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    129. HotPinkLipstick,

      Our comments overlapped somehow, so OK: you are forgiven.

      But regarding Rhaegar and possible solutions of the Man King problem, the problem that there was no legal solution. OK, the Romanovs tried to deal with “mad emperors” with “pillows, silk shawls, and tobacco-boxes”, but where did it lead them? Into the cellar of the Ipatiev House (it’s a loose translation of one of Russian political poems, BTW). So, when did kingslaying or patricide brought any good to any realm?
      And there was no legitimate mechanism to resolve the problem of a mad king in any humane way. So, no wonder that Rhaegar hesitated.

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    130. Geralt of Rivia,

      They would if Rhaegar told them to

      Shaw: Can you explain why the King’s Guard chose to stand and fight Ned at the Tower of the Joy instead of protecting the remaining royal family members?

      Martin: The King’s Guards don’t get to make up their own orders. They serve the king, they protect the king and the royal family, but they’re also bound to obey their orders, and if Prince Rhaegar gave them a certain order, they would do that. They can’t say, “No we don’t like that order, we’ll do something else .”
      http://web.archive.org/web/20051103091500/nrctc.edu/fhq/vol1iss3/00103009.htm

      And TWOIAF states Viserys was named Aerys’ heir

      Birds flew and couriers raced to bear word of the victory at the Ruby Ford. When the news reached the Red Keep, it was said that Aerys cursed the Dornish, certain that Lewyn had betrayed Rhaegar. He sent his pregnant queen, Rhaella, and his younger son and new heir, Viserys, away to Dragonstone, but Princess Elia was forced to remain in King’s Landing with Rhaegar’s children as a hostage against Dorne.

      Anyhow, GRRM purposely makes laws of succession vague

      Well, the short answer is that the laws of inheritance in the Seven Kingdoms are modelled on those in real medieval history… which is to say, they were vague, uncodified, subject to varying interpertations, and often contradictory.
      http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/The_Hornwood_Inheritance_and_the_Whents

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    131. Geralt of Rivia,

      Yeah that’s what I mean.If they stayed there it’s because they believed that’s where their duty lies.Hightower wasn’t even buddies with Rhaegar lol.

      Leaks

      I don’t know why I am doing this again lol and let’s keep it short so we don’t derail the thread haha.But if things turn out like the leak says and at this point I don’t have any reason to doubt it then the annulment thing it’s just cause it is easier for the show.They don’t have to go into the whole polygamy thing and the faith and how it was practiced and then not.A modern audience will understand more easily an annulment and secret marriage.And how the record of that was lost in the citadel archives after the regime change.All the participants were dead anyway so who would have cared to let it be known.And yeah his name might be Aegon there are lots of reason why it would be that story wise or meta wise.I don’t think it’s as big of a deal than people make it to be.

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    132. Jenny,

      Wait, so Rhaegar orders them to stay at the ToJ but he’s not responsible for them doing so? Okay. Right, they should have told him to fuck right off and stayed in King’s Landing. I agree. They should have. They are culpable for their actions.

      However, Rhaegar convinced them to set aside their oaths. Those three guys didn’t get together and say, “Hey, I hear there’s a pregnant Northern girl at the ToJ. Let’s abdicate our oaths and go protect her!”

      If someone orders a soldier to do something, they are just as culpable for that action as the soldier who completes it, and sometimes more culpable.

      Actually, if we are talking Rhaegar’s influence over the Kingsguard, he should have talked Selmy out of scaling that wall and facilitating the rescue of Aerys.

      I’m not sure who you think deserves the blame here, but I’m blaming them all. The Kingsguard for not exercising their free will (breaking their oaths) and not killing Aerys long before, or the Kingsguard for only exercising their free will (and breaking their oaths) by failing to protect their king at the time of Robert’s Rebellion. Yes, I blame them for that.

      I also blame Rhaegar for passing by every opportunity to take out his father, for failing his moral duty to his rape victim mother, for having the chessboard stacked for him at Harrenhal and getting distracted by a girl, for his treatment of Elia, no matter how it went down, for leaving the capital and the people of King’s Landing at risk.

      Of the principal actors during Robert’s Rebellion, Ned, Robert, Rhaegar, the majority of Kingsguard (bar Martell who died, Selmy who was injured and Darry who took the remaining Royals to Dragonstone), none of them are heroes or honorable men or worthy of any level of admiration.

      Inga,

      Rhaegar hesitated, and the realm suffered. I’m not saying his level of useless inaction isn’t understandable. It is. But understanding isn’t excusing. He put his own personal set of morals above the welfare of the people.

      No amount of purple eyes, silver hair and harp playing makes that acceptable.

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    133. Jenny,

      Leak content

      Under the assumption that Lads is correct about the R+L plot, since he’s been right about everything else, I’m curious to see if the show delves into Rhaegar’s preoccupation with prophecy at all, now that we’re properly getting introduced to him. Disinheriting your wife and kids and risking a war that will kill thousands and nearly extinguish your house gets re-contextualized considerably if you believe that the alternative is the end of humanity itself one generation later, all because you failed to conceive the “chosen one.” The role and validity of prophecy in this series is debatable, but for better or worse, this is what Rhaegar believed. Fuck up the realm today in order to create the figure who will ensure that it has a future of any kind. That doesn’t give him a free pass, but that bit of context is pretty crucial in fully understanding his actions.

      People have pretty strong opinions about whether or not the ends justify the means, but in a world where Rhaegar doesn’t do what he did, the Westerosi are sitting ducks waiting to be wiped out by a threat that they don’t even know exists. Alliser Thorne becomes LC after Mormont falls, and he preoccupies himself with fighting wildlings instead of recognizing that far worse is coming. Bran may or may not find some way to open his third eye without being pushed from the tower, but what will he see? Half of the visions he’s getting now are contingent on the rebellion having happened, and he’s specifically being shown what he needs to know in order to fulfill his destiny. Dany is never on the run or in any position to inherit power, hatch dragons, or pick up any foreign armies. Even if the dragons are somehow born anyway, the wight hunt pretty effectively dispels the notion that they’re sufficient to take down the NK on their own, and we find out during the ambush that there are other ways to incapacitate them as well. Love or hate Rhaegar, a world in which Robert’s Rebellion never happens is a world that the NK will inherit with very little resistance.

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    134. Jenny,

      I agree.

      I’ve always believed his name was either Aemon or Aegon, so glad the show is confirming another theory for me lol. Both names make sense, though I think I prefer Aegon. Jon even looks like Aegon the Conqueror in the GRRM approved art and it seems like a very GRRM thing to have a fake Aegon (Young Griff) and a real one. The books will likely go with the polygamy aspect: the precedent is there and George has explained how that works, whereas in the show they’ll simplify things for the audience. They’re getting to the same key element (in this case, Jon is a legitimate Targaryen) but the journey is different, which is what D&D have said they’ll be doing with the adaptation. Either way, if/when Jon is proven to be legitimate, Reddit and GoT forums are going to be in denial for months and it will be entertaining.

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    135. elybe,

      Leaks

      I fully agree.I think prophecy played a large role in Rhaegar’s actions.I think he might have changed his mind again after he met Lyanna and realized the messiah must come from their union and not just the third head of the Dragon hence the name.Anyway yeah the guy went about doing things the wrong way but we wouldn’t be where we are without him.Westeros would be screwed.From what we know of him I wouldn’t say he was the best,or the most diplomatic but I don’t understand people depicting him as this monster and blaming everything on him.That’s insane.And if it turns out the world is saved then in this case for me the end would really justify the means.This is one of the times when I am sad that George will never finish writing the books cause I really want to know how it played out in detail lol.

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    136. Flayed Potatoes,

      Leaks

      Yeah exactly.The point is that he is legitimate.Who cares how it is revealed.All the people involved are dead anyway lol.They just need to make it easy for the audience.And George would absolutely go for a fake/real Aegon dichotomy.Even if his name isn’t really Aegon in the books,which I’m slowly coming to the realization that it really is,D&D would absolutely go for it in the show.It just makes sense.

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    137. HotPinkLipstick,

      If you are going to run away with your Warden’s daughter who is also betrothed to the lord of Storm’s End and you are aware that your father is a wild card ,then use your brain and send a letter ,sign by Lyanna , to her family .Also Rhaeghar was wrong about the prince that was promised twice! Many think is Dany instead of Jon and there is also the possibility that he wanted three chrildren (the dragon has three heads) beacause of the prophecy. He is not responsible for Aerys actions, but i blame him for leaving his wife and children unprotected. If you are going to hide Lyanna then hide your true family too , from your mad father and half the lords of Westeros you just pissed.He send her to Dorne !!! Dorne!!! He should have send Elia and the children to her brothers as well, the safest place for them, when no one would harmed them, since Dorne has never been conquered. Ned was planning to send his girls back in Winterfell in season 1 for the same reasons.I don’t say Rhaeghar was a bad person , on the contrary i trust Barristan’s opinion about him .And yes Rhaeghar was trying to save humanity , he believed he was doing the right thing but so did Stannis. I don’t compare them of course ,but if your are going to play the hero,do it with honor like Jon did when he put Mel’s crimes above the fact that she saved his life and the prophecy. After all is the people you are trying to save in the first place , you can’t risk their lives and safety for “their own good”.Rhaeghar was a good man but he made mistakes and innocent people paid the price .There is no denying that.

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    138. Jenny,

      Rhaegar probably gave them a direct order, not sure if went into detail. As their vow says they guard King and royalty. Dany still comes before Jon in terms of succession but he’s legit.
      ¨
      Leaks spoilers.

      Rhaegar couldn’t annuled their marriage, if he and Elia consumated marriage. He did that with her, as they have two kids. Even if he tried, why not to tak another wife. Since previous wife and kids are dead, Faith is dead. Easier way to do it.

      On top of it everything in discrete? Without Dornishmen protesting as he set aside Elia? Unlikely. Also, count on the fact that Rhaegar tried recreating original three-headed dragon of Aegon, Rhaenys and Visenya. Why again Aegon? This is some D&D innovation I’m not really fond of.

      His birth name is obviously a big deal, since they kept it a secret. So it matters to the story and changing it from the books to Aegon, which is illogical. As he already had a son, It seems to me they’re trying to integrate Aegon storyline into the show and give Jon different name, as they do. hey change names.

      Jay Targ,

      Rhaegar was dead and they probably knew this. So from that point onwards it was their vow to go protect King and royalty. Maybe he said to them something about prophecy but that is strictly speculation. All am saying is that Jon is legit, next King probably not. So it is Viserys and not aegon good. Then comes Dany, which makes Jon’s parentage more about prophecy and personal thing.

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    139. Flayed Potatoes,

      Leaks spoilers.

      In the book HOTU vision Rhaegar sing a song to Elia and baby Aegon confirmed by GRRM. “His is the Song of Ie and Fire.” Not Lyanna and Jon. If show changes that, it’s a huge deviation. Why naming another son Aegon, whe he intended on three headed dragon prophey to save the realm? In the books there is virtually no connection to name Aegon. Only Aemon.

      GRRM approved many things but fact of the matter is that Dany is Aegon Conqueror reborn. On the show she’s being reminded of being a conqueror rather than a ruler. George compared them, also took inspirations from Nymeria, Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan or Hendry Tudor VII.

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    140. Konna,

      I think you’re replying to the wrong person. I’m arguing that Rhaegar is a total asshole and worthy of a shite ton of blame. I’ll come out and say he was not a good man either. He was a selfish, self-centered, narcissistic asshole.

      I don’t particularly trust Barristan’s opinion because he, again, spent his guard duty listening to a woman get raped, watched men cook in their armor and did nothing. Barristan, of them all, is probably the most in denial about what was happening during Aerys reign. I think he’s re-written history in his own mind to deal with the atrocities he saw and to live with his own inaction. I seriously don’t think you go through what Aerys’ Kingsguard went through and come out of it with the ability to reliably assess character.

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    141. Geralt of Rivia,

      Because the other Aegon is dead lol. Rhaegar was also dead when Jon was born. How do you know Rhaegar picked Jon’s name? It could have easily been Lyanna who named him. Or maybe Rhaegar didn’t care that much about his first wife and kids (the leaks certainly imply this).

      Jon’s real name seems like a pretty major thing, so I doubt the show would diverge this much from the books.

      There actually are similarities between Jon and Aegon (and Jon has certain Targ personality traits and ‘wake the dragon’ moments in the books and show). They’re just not obvious and (there’s more to Aegon the Conqueror than “he conquered Westeros with three dragons”). Also, before you come at me with more Dany related things: I never said she didn’t have similarities to Aegon.

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    142. Jenny,

      Leaks

      If the leaks are true, then I wonder whether the prophesy could have been the motivated Aegon the Conqueror to conquer Westeros too? IMO, the sole reason why the Targaryans were sent to Westeros to be saved from the Doom was that their scion was supposed to save Westeros. I guess that the prophecy of the PTWP came from Daenys the Dreamer, and since then the Targaryans (or at least some of them) were trying to fulfill their mission, and forcing Westeros into unification could have been one of those attempts to create preconditions to withstand the foreseen WW attack.

      As for poor Rhaegar, could anyone help me to piece up the sequence of events? As far as I understand it was like this: Jaime killed the Mad King, then Ned came finding him still on the IT, then Tywin came with the Mountain and ordered him to kill Ellia and her kids, and Robert came the last. So, why didn’t Ned take Ellia and her kids under his custody? Not only that it would have been humane and honorable to save their lives, but it would have been useful for Robert as well: Targaryan loyalists would have had drawn into discussion on whether they should back Viserys or Aegon, and Robert could have ruled without problems at least until Aegon came to age, etc. Or in other words, even Ned couldn’t imagine that Ellia and her kids were under threat, cause killing them was an absolute stupidity from the political POW and Tywin was considered to be a cruel, but reasonable man, ets.
      I’m not saying that Rhaegar and Lyanna did everything right: they should have informed the Starks to prevent their clash with the Mad King, etc. But as I’ve said: we don’t know the full story, and some key pieces of information may be missing. So, I am not on board with rushed verdicts, because so far rushed verdicts based on unreliable information were the main cause of all the problems and wars in GOT.

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    143. Oh mods – please tell us there will be some fun stuff/news coming up! We’ve been so spoiled this season, I feel like I’m going through withdrawal!

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    144. HotPinkLipstick,

      No the reply was for you.I was agreeing with you about Rhaeghar being responsible for what happened and i wrote the reasons i believe that. Also i wanted to add that they where other ways to protect Elia even without the kingsguard (Dorne).Sorry if my intentions weren’t clear , english is not my native language. 🙂

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    145. Flayed Potatoes,

      Yes, when he learnt that Tywin was marching ,he traveled as fast as he could because he feared that the lannisters will do someting terrible, which they did.Tywin already had a “bad” reputation.

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    146. Konna,

      Oh sorry. Your English is fantastic and I’m always impressed with people who can communicate in multiple languages when I struggle with one.

      We can be #TeamRhaegarSucked

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    147. Flayed Potatoes,

      Leaks spoilers.

      You understand that Aegon was part of three headed dragon. If he was dead along with his sister, what’s the point of naming Jon Aegon, besides don’t think Rhaegar envisioned death of his children. He named his son Aegon, daughter Rhaenys and third was supposed to be daughter to complete original three headed dragon, and that would be Visenya, and male Viserys or something like that.

      So, unlikely Lyanna would name Aegon, when he got one, who knows if raven even got to TOJ to tell them of Aegon’s and Rhaenys’ death, since Jon was born around sack of KL. And of course three headed dragon prophecy Rhaegar was obsessed about.

      Jon’s name is a big deal, that’s why they have this secret. If it is Aegon, then it might be different from the books. Just like other things happening might be in different context or somehow changed. Not everything will be same. His idol was Aemon the Dragonknight, said how he’s no Aemon Targaryen, counceed by Aemon during his LC position.

      Similar traits like what?

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    148. HotPinkLipstick,

      I don’t hate him , but yes he sucked.It’s not just the mistakes he made but the fact that he was the crowned prince!He was raised to rule one day and be responsible for his people.A grown man , a father of two children and an educated highborn who knew excactly how the world works . He was old enough to know the consicounses of his actions. He was as naive as Sansa in season 1(book 1) ,and she was only a child. And people call Robb stupid!At least he was able to win a few battles before his death.

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    149. Saw the first shots of Season 7 in the latest “What’s coming to HBO” promo before Westworld tonight!

      A shot of Jon, a shot of Sansa walking in the godswood, and a shot of Arya on horseback.

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    150. Quick PSA: I was settling in to watch the new episode of Westworld at 9 PM EST, and right before it started, HBO aired a new What’s Coming in 2017 ad that appeared to feature a few brief seconds of new Game of Thrones footage. I caught glimpses of Jon, Sansa, and Arya. Jon was wearing his northern cloak, Sansa may have been in the Winterfell godswood, and Arya was riding a horse. The first two shots weren’t that distinctive, but the Arya shot caught my attention – I definitely didn’t remember it from any previous seasons.

      I’m not sure if this is meant to be an equivalent to HBO’s annual yearender video (I don’t think it is – the yearender usually isn’t released this early, and tends to feature a lot more footage from the year it’s commemorating). From what I’ve seen on Twitter, a few other people saw the ad as well, but no one’s posted a video of it yet. So keep an eye out – HBO may re-air it later tonight, or release an official copy on YouTube tomorrow.

      Again, it’s not much, but it would be our first official glimpse of footage from the new season, which is always worth commemorating. 🙂

      EDIT: Looks like Beremir saw it as well!

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    151. Jay Targ,

      A brief one. I couldn’t catch any details, but it looked reasonably upscale – not a dress, but something a noblewoman might wear. Definitely not rags, and not the serving girl’s dress that she was wearing at the Twins when last we saw her.

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    152. Regarding the new Arya image:

      She looks sooo good. With that thin black cloak, she looks like she’s ready to join the Night’s Watch. Love the pulled back hair, a la Ned and Jon. And I love that Needle is right at her hip and that she somehow acquires a horse. My girl is so badass.

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    153. Geralt of Rivia,

      So based on the first part of your comment, his name is….Viserys? lmao no

      There’s no hint that Rhaegar was expecting Jon to be a girl or that he was specifically naming his kids after Aegon and his sisters. If that was the case, Rhaegar would have named his daughter Visenya because she was the oldest of Aegon the Conqueror’s sisters, but he didn’t.

      Look, you might as well prepare yourself for the possibility that the name might be Aegon instead of arguing in circles like you’ve done before with Jon “kneeling”. I’m honestly for both names as both fit my theories lmfao so idk why I’m even typing more explanations but here we go:

      Jon’s sisters (well, cousins) are pretty similar to Aegon’s. One is the warrior type (Visenya/Arya) and one is the lady type (Sansa/Rhaenys). Not saying they’ll end up marrying, but the similarity is there and Arya is known to admire Visenya. Both Jon and Aegon have a bastard VS sword. They also have a small army to start their campaign: Jon with his Wildlings set to fight the Boltons and “conquer” the North and Aegon’s small army when he went to conquer (I believe both had/have around 3000 in da books) . They’re both harsh with rebels and people who disobey, though they’re known to offer them a chance if they follow (Jon beheads Slynt after he’s given him chances to change his mind, he gets the wildlings to swear fealty to him and taking child prisoners in the books, and you can also argue for him hanging the mutineers – one of them being a kid). Of course, Jon doesn’t have dragons so his punishments aren’t as….um…flamboyant. Aegon was also known to not have many friends and to generally keep to himself (same as Jon).

      And of course Jon has several “wake the dragon” moments in the books (and you could argue for some in the show as well), which aligns him to his Targ heritage.

      And like I also said when I was discussing this with Jenny. It seems like a very GRRM thing to have a fake red-herring Aegon and a real one, even though Young Griff seems like a later addition to the story.

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    154. I have no idea why

      Jon’s name would even matter. It’s not going to provide him power or legitimacy. The only think I can think it would be useful for is if there is a recorded birth certificate. Wait, even then it doesn’t matter what his name is. It could be Homer Stark-Targaryen. As long as that name can be attributed to the child Ned brought back after Robert’s Rebellion, it works. The details of the name are just…not important.

      I mean, unless there’s a name you say three times while looking in the mirror and the Night King appears? Then that name would matter.

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    155. HotPinkLipstick,

      Probably because

      1. It could confirm the fact that he’s a Targ even more.

      2. Depending on what the name is you can draw certain parallels between some Targs who had the same name and Jon.

      3. Most importantly, it’s going to be huge for Jon. He’ll find out his parentage, but also the fact that the name he thought he had isn’t even his real one. It’s going to cause a lot of angst and inner turmoil.

        Quote  Reply

    156. BunBunStark:
      Pigeon,

      I keep switching back and forth between the 2 images of Jon and Arya and I wanna weep tears of joy because of how similar they look.

      I know! I would dearly love to see a Jon/Arya reunion like the Jon/Sansa one, only more meaningful to me due to their closer relationship. Sadly, I doubt we will, since, well, they gave it to Sansa, and this is Game of Thrones. Still, hope ‘springs’ eternal if not a little delusional.

        Quote  Reply

    157. Pigeon,

      I think the Jon/Arya reunion might be big but in season 8.I think they might see each in the midst of some dramatic moment and it will be emotional because of the circumstances even though they know the other is alive.Also this is neither here or there but I always thought Jon and Sansa would be the first to reunite in the books too just because of story.

        Quote  Reply

    158. Luka Nieto,

      I can buy that. Yes, both sides reek, so it’s a coin toss. I assumed given that neither side is ideal, Tarly would go with the one that’s obviously stronger–Dany.

      However, he might look at Dany and see nothing but “alien,” and side with the queen, who is at least Westerosi. Also, if he’s the hyper-traditional, stubborn man he is in the novels, he might not recognize his own danger. He looks at the Dothraki and the Unsullied, and sees merely barbarians who can be easily defeated by brave Westerosi warriors. He’s never been hit by air power before, probably doesn’t get what three dragons can do to him, thinks Cersei has something that’ll take them down, etc.

        Quote  Reply

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