Nathalie Emmanuel says momentum “kicks into gear” next season and Noah Syndergaard dishes on cameo

Missandei

Nathalie Emmanuel chats about the building momentum and character work of Game of Thrones‘ endgame and Noah Syndergaard offers details on his cameo next season.

In an interview with InStyle, Emmanuel was understandably scant on plot details about the upcoming season of Game of Thrones. However, she did say that in season 7 storyline threads that have been building up since the beginning finally “[kick] into gear.”

“There’s a continuation of characters who haven’t previously interacted coming together, which is always exciting to watch,” she said.

She also spoke of the complex characters and strong women for which the show is so well known:

Game of Thrones writes very complex characters so well. I love that you see real strength in the characters who are in a less powerful position and who’ve been oppressed, and weakness or vulnerability in the strong characters. The women really exemplify this as they are such a force to be reckoned with. Take Missandei – she’s been a slave her whole live and is incredibly intelligent and uses that for the greater good. She and Daenerys have that in common; Daenerys was sold in a sense for the advancement of men, so they have that solidarity in having both been used but emerging stronger.

As for Missandei’s bittersweet romance with the eunuch, Grey Worm, Emmanuel offered her thoughts on just what it is about the couple that makes their relationship so compelling.

“They’re such a great couple because there’s a purity about their connection,” she said.
“It’s been born of a place of pain and confusion and oppression, so they understand one another. It’s very human, and yet very rare. In that world of people being butchered and battered and manipulated, there’s this very pure, very sweet thing. It’s special.”

In other news, Noah Syndergaard offered a few more details about his season 7 cameo and his experience on the Game of Thrones set in an interview with Sports Illustrated.

Turns out Syndergaard will be playing a Lannister general who either “kills someone or is killed,” which makes sense considering Syndergaard’s athletic stature and physique. “It was one scene and it took all day, from 8 in the morning until we finished shooting at 5 P.M. It was a lot of fun but I’m afraid that I can’t tell you too much about it. I don’t think I’m allowed to,” he said.

When asked if he could name any of the actors he shared the scene with, Syndergaard pled the 5th, which might indicate the presence of an unexpected character … or maybe it’s just standard Game of Thrones secrecy.

83 responses

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    1. Natalie is lovely, inside and out, as is Missandei. Although there are many who groan that showing anything of the relationship between Missandei and Gray Worm “takes up valuable time” I enjoy those scenes. It’s a relief to see that even with such horrifying brutality all around, that two people can still connect in honest affection and regard for the other. I think that the presence of Missandei has helped keep Dany sane and connected to reality. If Missandei doesn’t make it through, it will go very hard on Dany.

      All this talk about characters meeting who have never met before, and the reunions of characters that we love to see together, is exciting beyond words. It gets harder every day to wait for the new season, but I’m a loyal Watcher on this wall, and am slogging through.

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    2. Thronetender,

      I agree, I find the innocent love between Missandei and Greyworm truly beautiful and inspiring. GOT needs a little bit of happiness considering all the horrible things that happen in the show.

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    3. Thronetender,

      Yeah i agree ..It really hasn’t taken up much screentime if it has taken only less than of 10 minutes in 3 seasons ..

      Although i wouldn’t she helped keeping dany stay sane but that she helped dany be focus and served as a reminder of what dany is doing good and what’s more need to be done .
      I would say dany helped unsullied loosen up and start having feelings and capable of love or dany giving missandei a position and values her advice have helped them both them to grow more ..
      Even tyrion attempts at making a conversation and making jokes was about making these two loosen up and become normal..

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    4. Dany stroked the girls hair. “Say the word, my sweet, and I will send you from this awful place. I will find a ship somehow and send you home. To Naath.”

      “I would sooner stay with you. On Naath I’d be afraid. What if the slavers came again? I feel safe when I’m with you.”

      Safe. The word made Dany’s eyes fill up with tears. “I want to keep you safe.” Missandei was only a child. With her, she felt as if she could be a child too. “No one ever kept me safe when I was little. Well, Ser Willem did, but then he died, and Viserys … I want to protect you but … it is so hard. To be strong. I don’t always know what I should do.”

      How much I wish the we had similar scene like this between Emilia and Nathalie

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    5. I’d say Nathalie is beautiful, but Gemma Whelan and Ellie Kendrick would think that’s misogynist 😉

      Nathalie come a long way since Hollyoaks, AKA the flaming pit of acting despair.

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    6. When Missandei told her joke about translators and Tyrion laughed to be polite, Grey Worm was looking at her with such adoration! It made me smile and pray to the Old Gods and the New for these two people to find a little bit of happiness in spite of everything that might be against them. Love Nathalie and I hope to see her in many films.
      Ten Bears,
      Are you glad for the Syndergaard cameo? I know nothing about baseball, do you enjoy watching Syndergaard play?

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    7. What a great opportunity for Noah! I assumed that he would be a Wildling but a Lannister general with a sword is even better. And until we see his cameo, I get to watch him pitch every 5th day.

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    8. I wonder what role Missandei is going to play next season and beyond. So far, she hasn’t done much – if anything – for a greater good. However, the showrunners gave her a subplot and a certain character development, which makes me believe that she will begin to act more and more independently and maybe even end up playing some role in the big picture.

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    9. Inga,

      I don’t think there’s anything more going on than the writers trying to flesh out Dany’s supporting cast a bit (since they cast actors in those parts, they have to give them some minimum of characterization, and it obviously helps Dany if the audience feels some attachment to her entourage).

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    10. I might have missed it here, if noted, but Gemma Whelan was on the Graham Norton Show, recently… she said that season 7 is broken into two parts … as if that was the way she was told. That’s interesting tho kind of minor , still seems the story has been it’s season 7 and season 8.
      She was asked if she was in season 8 , her body language kind of telegraphed she was , but she had to do a double take and a cover … can’t make out exactly what she was implying.
      (Some details here about her first scene with Alfie, amusing.)

      (Gemma was gushing over sitting next to Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman!
      Handled it well, it is evident she is an above average actress.)

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    11. When asked if he could name any of the actors he shared the scene with, Syndergaard pled the 5th, which might indicate the presence of an unexpected character … or maybe it’s just standard Game of Thrones secrecy.

      Alternatively, given that Noah has probably filled most of his memory with heat charts for National League batters, he might not remember the names! (There are rather a lot of them.)

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    12. Inga: However, the showrunners gave her a subplot and a certain character development, which makes me believe that she will begin to act more and more independently and maybe even end up playing some role in the big picture.

      Mostly, Missandei is just there to give us an idea of for what Daeny is fighting. With Jon, Ygritte really fills that role: she is what humanizes the Wildlings for the character and the audience as well as giving us the “gone native” aspect of Jon’s arc. However, Drogo takes the “gone native” role within Daeny’s arc: so, it becomes more important to do a small side thing with Daeny’s supporting characters. (Tormund also contributes to this for Jon: but it’s more tightly connected to the plot.)

      This is always the big trick when trying to make strong parallels between two major protagonists: things have to be the same in general, but if they are the same in specifics, then it looks repetitive.

      Shy Lady Dragon: It made me smile and pray to the Old Gods and the New for these two people to find a little bit of happiness in spite of everything that might be against them. Love Nathalie and I hope to see her in many films.

      Yes, that was a nice touch. The books accomplish this sort of effect with a lot of little things, and the whole Missandei-Greyworm thing covers for those on TV. It also shows the power of slavery: the two can fall in love, but they can never be a “normal” couple because of what it did to Greyworm.

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    13. Mel: With his blonde hair he even looks a little like a Lannister lol

      I most like the way it looks coming out of his cap when he is craning his neck back to “admire” a majestic home run served up to a member of the Chicago Cubs. (Or, well, any team: I still hate the Mets from 1986; heck, maybe from 1969!

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    14. I have to assume that the people that have complained about Missandei and GW scenes are mainly purist book readers that don’t want it included because the ‘relationship’ isn’t in the books. She’s only ten in the books though, so um, yeah.

      Personally I think their small side arc is also part of broadening the (show) story a bit rather than just popping from main to main to main and not having any personal story or viewpoint from other characters. They need to do some things with ancillary characters and many viewers have a lot of interest in both of them.

      A side story such as this falls in the topic of conversation about expanding the scope and thus slowing the series to make it longer. They haven’t done that much at all and that’s why the series will complete in just 73 episodes. With a story as long and broad as ASoIaF they certainly could have stretched it out for many more years. Would the show be as exciting or good if they had many episodes mainly on the supplementary characters that George’s meandering pen wrote about? I dare say it would not and possibly could have grown quite stale. Can you imagine them spending half a season on Quentyn Martell and his quest

      only for it to end with him stupidly approaching the dragons and being roasted. He and his arc felt like a huge waste of time in the books – I don’t need to watch it too.

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    15. Clob,

      I’m no book “purist” and I’m not too fond of those scenes. I probably wouldn’t mind them and also the Sam-Gilly scenes, if not for the limited running hours. They could spend more time on focusing on the main story/characters instead of these very, very minor characters.

      Furthermore, the plot and the characters need to be blended in. In S5 & S6, their scenes have been acting as “speed-breakers” while the main plot seemed “rushed”. Remember, even with limited screen time, Rakharo-Irri were able to have a good impact.

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    16. Clob: Can you imagine them spending half a season on Quentyn Martell and his quest

      Not without becoming physically ill, no, no I cannot! (And I would almost consider becoming a theist for 10 minutes in order to thank a higher power that his abhorrent sister was cut!)

      Icewalker: They could spend more time on focusing on the main story/characters instead of these very, very minor characters.

      There is a bit of a difference. Sam is a minor protagonist, both in the books and on the show. As such, he needs some arc that feeds into the larger story, even if it is a small one. Missandei & Grayworm are purely supporting characters. However, most of their screen time does serve a purpose: it provides a backdrop for Daeny’s and now Tyrion’s actions. One “copout” to which too many people retreat is the belief that slaves do not hate being enslaved: Daeny is “wrecking” cultures, after all! However, the Missandei & Grayworm stuff shows both how much they hate it and just how much it costs them. Yes, Daeny is wrecking cultures: and that is a good thing in this case.

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    17. Icewalker,

      I don’t know what rushed parts did you see in the season and also as people have mentioned those scenes barely took any screentime unlike you are suggesting,for one thing i am glad they got rid of the travalogues,they are fucking garbage and the worst thing in this series,i’ll take any “teleporting” of the characters if it actually means moving the plot instead of wasting my time like in AFFC and ADWD .

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    18. As for the show gaining momentum, well, that’s nice. However, the better concept is “potential” vs. “kinetic.” We are in the final act: it is time to start unleashing the potential into kinetic at this point!

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    19. Ahh, “kicks into gear” is in the headline with Missandei and Fast & the Furious coming out…I see what you did there…

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    20. Sean C.,
      Wimsey,

      Indeed, it might be that the showrunners are simply trying to flesh up Dany’s pupporting cast, but in this case I wouldn’t mind them to flesh up Missandei even more. She could give Dany some advise or tell her what she should or shouldn’t do, when it comes to Jon – they had a bit of these girls’ talks about Grey Worm, so, it would be rather natural. Missandei can also help Jon and Davos to see the real Dany behind the mask of that overentitled robotic queen.

      Some of the leaked scenes kind of imply that they will be interacting

      So, Missandei has potential to do some minor, but still important things which will eventually influence the overall course of events.

      On the other hand the showrunners have set Missandei as a rather typical favourite (or minion – I don’t know which terms would be correct). Dany saved her and she loves her mainly because she saved her, not because Missandei did anything to win that love. And that might be dangerous: favouritism was a whole phenomenon throughout the Middle Ages and Early Modern Times, and actually an overwhelming majority of those historically known favourites ended up bitting their do-gooders. So, I don’t know: hardly the showrunners are going this path, but in general it wouldn’t be impossible. The main problem I have with Missandei and Grey Worm is that they come out of slavery pure and white as snowflakes and that’s kind of strange on the background of all those contraversions GoT is famous for. But on the other hand, there is quite a lot of rather one-dimentional good guys in GoT (take Davos, for instance). So, I’m probably becomming too suspicious (but no surprise after Red Wedding and Olly stabbing Jon).

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    21. Inga: On the other hand the showrunners have set Missandei as a rather typical favourite (or minion – I don’t know which terms would be correct). Dany saved her and she loves her mainly because she saved her, not because Missandei did anything to win that love.

      I have to disagree with you here. Dany doesn’t just love Missandei because she considers her her pet. From the moment they met, Dany recognized Missandei’s intelligence (the way she handled the translation with Kraznys mo Nakloz.) Dany even told her that she was free to leave if she wanted. It was Missandei who chose to stay… In any case, Missandei functions as a “cultural advisor” throughout the whole Yunkai/Meereen enterprise.
      Even if the show hasn’t developed Dany/Missandei’s relationship in the same way as in the books, theirs is farther from just being one of master and minion.

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    22. Wimsey: And I would almost consider becoming a theist for 10 minutes in order to thank a higher power that his abhorrent sister was cut!)

      This made me laugh! 😀

      I’m sure you had explained it in previous posts, but why do you dislike Arianne Martell so much? (This is a genuine question, I’m not trying to be contrarian.) 🙂

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    23. A Dornish Tyrell,

      Well, historically most of those minions (or favourites) were hihly itelligent and gifted people and were favoured for that – the only problem that they were favoured much more than they deserved. And IMO, there is quite a bit of that excessive favouritism going between Dany and Missandei. Dany always keeps disance with other people: even with Jorah who was her best friend since S1. But with Missandei she is totlly off guard: we even saw her braiding her hair. I get that Dany is a good person, that she wants to treat Missandei as her equal, and that she simply wants to have someone to chat about guys and romantic matters, but that’s a weekness and in GoT there is no weekness without a consequence. So, I don’t know: I don’t want Missandei to turn into a traitor, but I would’t rule out such possibility per se, especially taking into account that rebellion against the worshiped authority is an inevitable stage of any personal growth. I just hope that Missandei won’t have time for a treason.

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    24. Speaking of overreaction to minor characters’s plot developement,if people are complaining about Sam and Gilly’s scenes(he had 3 whole scenes in the entire season 6 btw,the longest one being the dinner scene)i wonder what they are going to do when they find out that Sam is in 5 episodes out of 7 in the next season,are they going to quit watching the show or what ? And before people freak out about being a leak spoiler,relax,it was confirmed in one of the articles about Jim Broadbent’s role as the new maester .

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    25. Inga,

      I understand your concern, however, the show hasn’t given us any indication so far of a potential betrayal from Missandei’s part… I think it’s highly improbable that such event would ever take place.

      Regarding what you’ve said about minions and favourites, I think you are conflating to very dissimilar terms. A Favourite is usually someone who receives a lot of power (with or without their merit) from someone else. Favourites have a lot of influence on the source of power, which grants them some degree of autonomy in managing state affaires, for instance (think of Mme Du Barry and Louis XV, for example.) A Minion, on the other hand, is someone subservient to a more powerful person. They do not hold any sort of autonomy. Moreover, masters are not even concerned with the opinion of their minions. Blind obidience is expected from them.

      I don’t think any of these characteristics really apply to Missandei. In any case, besides her function as a member of the inner council, she acts as Dany’s lady-in-waiting.

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    26. Inga,

      But what reason is there for misaandei to turn against Dany ..dany will not say no if she and Grey worm get together ..I guess she will be happy for them.. As you suggest her position is elevated and loved by dany ..

      You mentioned olly stabbing jon..but it was not out of blue the show set it up for two seasons with his hatred for wildlings and spend all of season 6 giving jon dirty looks which didn’t hide he dislikes what jon is doing ..all these things indicated a betrayal coming ..but we don’t have any of this between missandei and dany..

      Also agree with dornish tyrell completely..

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    27. A Dornish Tyrell,

      Thank you for clarification. Indeed, Missandei would be a favourite, not a minion: she already has some power and influence and I expect her to gain more and that should lead to some conflict with Dany. But I hope it will be a very minor conflict: for instance, Missandei might advise Dany to take a risk of falling in love (I guess Dany will be reluctant and conflicted about her feelings in the beginning), and that would be her input into the end-game. And/or Missandei’s skills may play some role in trainslating the PTWP prophesy, if it is written in valyrian, as I guess. One way or another, I really want Missandei to DO something, rather than simply stand by Dany’s side, and some internal conflict might do her good as well.

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    28. dragonbringer,

      Well, speaking of potential reasons for Missandei to turn against Dany, I guess that, if she is forced to choose between Dany and Grey Worm, it might be a very hard choice. Or Missandei is simply not the one we think she is: there is that theory floating aroud that she is a Faceless (wo)man. I don’t buy it, bu who knows – the showrunners (and GRRM) may make her a secret agentjust for shock effect. But if not (I hope not), the show!Missandey should serve the purpose of encouraging Dany to open her heart for love, as well as making Jon understand that Dany is not a power-hungry dragon. Any good translator should be a good mediator too, and if Missandei employes her mediation skills to help those two to understand each other, I’ll be pretty happy with that.

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    29. Inga: there is that theory floating aroud that she is a Faceless (wo)man.

      I’ve heard of that crackpot theory… Another one suggests that, in the books, Missandei is actually the Harpy (disproven by the show.)

      One has to admire the lengths some fans are willing to go… 😀

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    30. A Dornish Tyrell: I’m sure you had explained it in previous posts, but why do you dislike Arianne Martell so much? (This is a genuine question, I’m not trying to be contrarian.)

      1) Her contribution to the story was completely redundant with Cersei’s: the pampered princess tries to kill the girl and become the woman, only to show that the woman is the same spoiled brat as the girl;
      2) There is almost no chance that any of the stuff in this plotline is going to have any bearing on what Jon, Daeny, Tyrion, Arya & Bran are thinking at the big climax of the overall series;
      3) The writing was unusually bad for GRRM: it really read like a 13 year old male who was terrified of women wrote it;
      4) Arianne herself came across like the awful Jewish American Princess stereotype, which I found to be both offensive AND silly because I kept envisioning Gilda Radner’s Rhonda Weiss character in all of Arianne’s chapters.

      Other than that, it was Booker-level literature…. 😉

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    31. A Dornish Tyrell: I’ve heard of that crackpot theory… Another one suggests that, in the books, Missandei is actually the Harpy (disproven by the show.)

      One has to admire the lengths some fans are willing to go…

      So often, the entire rationale seems to be that even if an idea has no evidence to support it, if the idea is not flatly contradicted by GRRM himself (anything in the books contradicting it will be dismissed as “unconfirmed”), then the idea is just as good as other ideas for which there is actual support!

      This has to be one of those cases: we do not know that Missandei is not a Faceless Man, so it is 50:50 that she is….

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    32. A Dornish Tyrell,

      Inga,

      To be honest I’ve always seen Dany and Missandei’s relationship even more in the books as a sister relationship with Missandei being the younger sister, just the way Dany comforts her and in return Missandei comforts her. In the show Dany braiding Missandei’s hair while talking about boys is very sisterly. With the lack of family Dany had, especially with how her brother treated her it’s natural that a young girl would kind of see certain people around her as almost adopted family. She’s refers to Jorah to a parental figure in one instance and a better brother than her own in another, I think it’s the same with Missandei. From the people she comes across, she’s always dreamed of a family so she makes her own with the people around her. That’s one of the reason’s why although she’s displayed physical attraction to both men and women in the books and on the show, she won’t ever display that to Missandei and Jorah as they are both too family like to her and that’s how she loves them.

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    33. Wimsey,

      Thanks for the answer!!

      I mostly agree with all of your criticisms of the Dornish subplot… It’s too meandering and it was added much too late in the book series (particularly the whole Quentyn Martell adventure.)

      And yet, Dorne is a guilty-pleasure for me. I even like Arianne (now I’m worried about what that says about me.) 🙂
      I just think that it could have been better if that storyline was published as a stand-alone short novel rather than being part of AFFC.

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    34. A Dornish Tyrell: I even like Arianne (now I’m worried about what that says about me.)

      Just tell people that, as a complete side note, you loved Gilda Radner and still miss her. It will subconsciously click for most of them. Er, well, the ones over (counts on fingers…) 45 or so.

      Younger people might just inch away, slowly……

      Seriously, taste is totally subjective. I, too, have guilty pleasures! Just because I like it, it does not follow that it was good! (And, of course, there are the opposites: the “guilty displeasures” of things that I recognize are high quality, but that just do not do it for me. What can I say: I’m human.)

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    35. Shy Lady Dragon,

      As an avid baseball fan, Noah Syndergaard (whose nickname is Thor due to his resemblance to a certain Marvel character), Thor is incredibly gifted with his talents and his overpowering abilities as a pitcher. He is an elite pitcher and most would put him in the top 5 in the game today.

      In Game of Thrones speak, Thor would be like The Mountain: when it his turn to perform his task, the results are often very frightening for those that are on the receiving end.

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    36. “Turns out Syndergaard will be playing a Lannister general who either “kills someone or is killed,” which makes sense considering Syndergaard’s athletic stature and physique.” Based on Noah’s comments that it took a whole day to film his scene, I’ve been trying to figure out with whom and where such a general would have such a run-in. I figure they would show him in one of two positions, either left in Kings Landing to patrol and protect the city while Jaime is gone, or he would accompany Jaime when Jaime

      goes to Highgarden as was reported on WotW earlier this off-season. Either the general has a run-in with Davos when Davos comes to find Gendry. Or … he’s with Jaime when the wagon-train is attacked. I think I remember that correctly as what was reported happening near Highgarden.

      Either way, it will be interesting to see whatever scene this is, knowing it took all day to film.

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    37. Clob,

      Lol. At least there’s some thought to Dorne in the books…not just the “bad pussy posse” let loose upon Westeros 🙂

      GRRM definitely took too long with several things, Brienne wandering thru Westeros, Tyrions trek thru Essos to get to Dany, etc. The show dos better with both of those.

      But to dismiss any criticism of the show as “book purists” is silly. I may critique the show when I feel it’s warranted but that doesn’t mean I don’t love or appreciate the show for what it is.

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    38. dragonbringer,

      WallyFrench: We could but D&D couldn’t get Missendeis nekked boobies out so they gave us a bathing scene instead.

      I don’t mind that scene… That scene, as well as the one in which White Rat goes with the prostitute, is meant to show that the Unsullied can be “deprogrammed.” They regain their humanity by experiencing tenderness, sexual desire, need of human contact, etc…

      What I found odd, however, is the next scene. Dany asks Missandei if she knows whether the masters took “the pillar and the stones” when they castrated the Unsullied. Missandei responds that she doesn’t know… But Missandei lived in Astapor, she must have known what happened with the boys that were trained to be Unsullied… That dialog doesn’t make much sense to me. That’s my only complain.

      WallyFrench: You’re not alone. I love Dorne too.

      Dorne fans unite!! 🙂

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    39. TheHoundsChicken: In Game of Thrones speak, Thor would be like The Mountain: when it his turn to perform his task, the results are often very frightening for those that are on the receiving end

      Huh, was it that easy to steal bases on the Mountain?

      😀

      (That is an overrated deficiency in a pitcher; many of the greats gave up a lot of stolen bases.)

      A Dornish Tyrell: Missandei responds that she doesn’t know… But Missandei lived in Astapor, she must have known what happened with the boys that were trained to be Unsullied…

      By this reasoning, someone living in a city with a sausage making factory must know what happens in between pig goes into factory and meat coming out of the factory. Missandei was owned by one of the “executives” of the business, which means that everything would have been handled by his underlings. She would know what went in to the process and what came out: there is no reason to assume that she would know anything else.

      WallyFrench: At least there’s some thought to Dorne in the books…not just the “bad pussy posse” let loose upon Westeros

      I would not state that there was no thought to Dorne in the books: my statement is that there is no point to Dorne in the books. Ultimately, it will be just plot: and thus it could have been summarized by third parties reporting on what he/she has heard is happening in Dorne, and then by whichever major player is coming from Dorne (say, Rhonda) joins up with Daeny or whichever important character they join in the end. Ideally, it would be that major character reaching out to them and making some decision fueling the overall story.

      I did not particularly care for Dorne on TV, either, but at least there it was the backdrop for a second-tier protagonist!

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    40. dragonbringer: You mentioned olly stabbing jon..but it was not out of blue the show set it up for two seasons with his hatred for wildlings and spend all of season 6 giving jon dirty looks which didn’t hide he dislikes what jon is doing

      heh, people here took to calling him Chekhov’s Olly! (And, no: I was not the one to start it!) This is the big difference: B&W showed us that Olly and others were not taking the new Wildling policy well. (In the books, GRRM uses Bowen Marsh and a couple of others: and instead of dirty looks and muted complaints, they flatout accuse Jon of treason; tell, don’t show, is the rule of literature!) The show has given us nothing like that from Missandei: if she turned traitor, it would be completely arbitrary at this point.

      But here is another important difference: we saw Jon failing to grasp just how unpopular his decisions were, or failing to appreciate it from Olly. Daeny runs into the same thing, but from different characters. Missandei’s role is like that of Sam or Edd here: she is equivalent to a Night Watch “loyalist,” not a Night Watch “nationalist.”

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    41. WallyFrench: to dismiss any criticism of the show as “book purists” is silly. I may critique the show when I feel it’s warranted but that doesn’t mean I don’t love or appreciate the show for what it is.

      Sorry, I didn’t mean for it to read as if I was saying anyone criticizing the show is a book purist. I’ve just gotten the feeling through comments over time that several people that had/have a problem with their relationship stuff is because it’s not in the books, and therefore not necessary. I believe that if it were in the books there wouldn’t be as much issue with it.

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    42. Wimsey: Missandei was owned by one of the “executives” of the business, which means that everything would have been handled by his underlings.

      True. But it’s not like what the masters made with the Unsullied was a trade secret, since Kraznys explains in detail (via Missandei) the whole procedure to Dany.

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    43. TheHoundsChicken,

      Tonight: Noah Snydergaard pitching for the NY Mets against Giancarlo Stanton and the Miami Marlins. Thor vs. The Iron Giant. Power against power.
      The retractable roof will be open. The night sky will be filled with the sound of whiffing batters — or the sight of moonshots flying out of the stadium.

      #GoFishGo
      #TheDrownedGodStoleJose ?
      #StantonTPTWP

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    44. Wimsey,

      While we’re on the subject of books ➡️ TV, a while back you had this great analogy to describe the adaptation process. I can’t remember exactly how you phrased it, and I don’t think there’s a way to do a search of the site to find it.

      Though you stated it more eloquently, it was something about how a fish’s anatomy would have to change or mutate to enable it to survive on land (eg, gills and fins become lungs and limbs).

      Does that ring a bell?

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    45. Ten Bears,

      Yeah! I basically use the Great White Shark and T. rex analogy, although I am pretty sure that I “borrowed” it from shark & lions. Basically, if you want a shark on land, then you have to replace gills with lungs, turn the fins into legs & arms, and then stop to ask whether things like feathers, etc., become necessary in the new medium, and whether things like shark “esp” serves any purpose in the new medium.

      The “story” is in the teeth, the ability to sense prey from a great distance, and, of course, the ability to induce spooky music when closing in on that prey… 😉 But if you just toss a shark onto dry land and expect it to do the same thing as it did in the water, then all you get is a rotten corpse.

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    46. WallyFrench,

      You know iam in conflict about it. its Nathalie Emmanuel !! You know
      Although i don’t think having one scene sacrificed having another ..I think the other scene can be made into the show as well

      A Dornish Tyrell,

      Yeah I thought that dialogues were somewhat silly too ..this happened with young widow khaleesi and dany as well..but i think that’s what the writers were going for ..
      I believe in the books its widely known and not a secret what’s removed and what’s kept (I don’t remember what exactly so have to look it up)

      Wimsey,

      Lol i remember chekov’s olly too..Exactly I think Mossodor the one who went against dany’s order and killed the harpy can be considered similar to Chekhov’s olly

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    47. A Dornish Tyrell,

      Maybe, you’re right. We don’t need to see them humanize though. They’re cannon fodder for the war with the Others.

      Man, if only D&D had given Dorne the proper treatment in trimming some fat but keeping the Queenmaker plot intact. That would have made me crazy happy. 🙂

      Wimsey,

      Hmmm….interesting. I didn’t think about that. Perhaps you’re right, but I would have missed the additional world building by fleshing out Dorne. But I’m definitely in the minority concerning the fandom. I enjoyed more Iron Islands focus too. The only thing GRRM did that I had to grind thru was the Penny sections as Tyrion made his way to Meereen.

      Clob,

      I understand. 🙂 I think here there are mostly show first people so at least you won’t have to see too many show complaints.

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    48. dragonbringer: I think Mossodor the one who went against dany’s order and killed the harpy can be considered similar to Chekhov’s olly

      Good point: that was a nice example of “damned if you do, damned if you don’t”: and the Harpies still tried to kill Daeny, anyway….

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    49. Thronetender,

      I agree with almost everything you said with one small exception. GW and company cannot possibly be eunuchs. Castrated male children do not develop into muscular, strong and aggressive young men. Look at Varys. It just makes no sense.

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    50. So Noah Snydergaard is a baseball player? Geeez, sorry for being so lost in space, I’ve never been a huge baseball fan – but I could start. I might even try to tune in to a Mets game just to see him in action before GoT starts. But nobody has any comment or conjecture on what he might be doing as a Lannister general?

      I’m actually kind of excited at the prospect of Jaime trotting down to Highgarden. I’ve wanted to see it since Marg talked to Sansa about it, when the Tyrells still thought they could marry her to Loras. Wouldn’t Jaime be taking his high generals with him on that mission? So, would General Noah be there if/when Jaime confronts Olenna? She would still have some guards around her – maybe that’s the scene that took a day to shoot.

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    51. Ten Bears: Tonight: Noah Snydergaard pitching for the NY Mets against Giancarlo Stanton and the Miami Marlins

      Is it televised? What time, what time zone, what station? He’s a cutie. I could stand watching that.

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    52. Mary: Castrated male children do not develop into muscular, strong and aggressive young men. Look at Varys. It just makes no sense.

      This is off on several counts. One, Unsullied are not aggressive: the Unsullied excel at following instructions and show almost no aggression on their own. One would see them as being even more disciplined as troops because of this. Two, they are not “muscular”: they are described as (and shown to be) lean, powerful men with the build of gymnasts or martial artists, not of hulking wrestlers. Three (and directly pertinent to two), if you train such people intensely in martial arts, then they will end up very strong individuals. After all, you can do this with…. (drum roll….) girls, and you’ll get lean, powerful young women who can kick Joe Average’s ass. Four, why on earth would you compare them to Varys? Varys shows no signs of ever exercising much, never mind routinely working out intensely.

      So, it is perfectly sensible.

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    53. Wimsey: My bet is shaking off signs, spitting, and cleaning off his cleats.

      Oh ha ha Wimsey. 🙂 I think I’ve been intrigued by the “Lannister Army” ever since Jaime was trying to convince Bronn to do something for him at Riverrun. I think he mentioned something like “soon I’ll be in charge of the whole Lannister army.” For some reason I had never thought of the Lannisters in terms of army. Yeah, sure, you think of all other houses with bannermen and troops, but that’s because it was always mentioned that so and so was a bannerman of this house or that. But I cant really remember it being mentioned before in terms of Lannisters. Maybe it was in the books, or I missed it being in mentioned in the show, but when Jaime said that to Bronn I thought ” Oh, yeah, THEY would have an army and bannermen too.” I only thought of it in terms of Jaime being Kingsguard. ANYway, I guess I was also intrigued with a new handsome young hunky general showing up on the show, but I guess no one else wants to talk about him. sigh. I’ll get my things and show myself out the door.

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    54. Thronetender,

      I wish I’d seen your comment sooner. The game was (somehow) broadcast on Twitter. I didn’t know they could do that.

      Noah left after pitching six innings with the score tied 2-2, and got a no-decision in a game the Mets eventually lost 3-2. ? He pitched well, and with those golden locks looked like a Lannister general and Cersei bedwarmer.

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    55. Wimsey,

      Two things. I firstly agree that the Unsullied’s strength is in their discipline and lack of fear of pain/death. The show has never shown it but they’re supposed to fight in a phalanx like hoplites.

      Second, he’s saying they shouldn’t be muscular at all. Which I can see his reasoning since no testes means no testosterone. He is forgetting about the real world example of eunuchs being used as body guards, so there’s historical precedents for eunuchs who fight. But they may be on the chubbier side if my memory serves me right.

      Thronetender,

      That’s the show jacking up the Lannisters power compared to other houses. I think he’ll be an officer but he’s too young to be a general.

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    56. WallyFrench: Which I can see his reasoning since no testes means no testosterone.

      That is a common belief, and yet women have low levels of testosterone. (East German women had lots of it: but that might have been “cheating.” Oh, wait, no, it was just cheating: no need for quotes!) Eunuchs do still produce testosterone: but in much lower amounts than do normal men. And, of course, they can be quite cut with the proper regimen.

      At any rate, the fact that women athletes as well as women who study martial arts, dancing, etc., are cut as hell should have been a tip-off that the basic premise was all wrong in the first place: it simply is not true that “if muscular, then normal human male level testosterone is present.”

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    57. Ten Bears: Thanks ! Maybe that explains why some great books I read became rotten corpses on film.

      The Harry Potter series alone provides great examples of both. The first two films were costumed readings of the books: and really mediocre (or even bad) films. There are other films in the series that are quite good as films: and all of them were aggressive adaptations that focused on telling the same story on screen.

      Lord of the Rings is another good example. Jackson & Co. focused on the story, and adapted accordingly. They also took into account that social norms were not what Tolkien wanted them to be. (Amusingly, Tolkien himself wrote at great lengths about this and why stories had to “keep with the times” in terms of symbolism; and yet the Tolkien fans howled that it was the duty of the audience to understand that “that was how it was back then!”)

      The Godfather is my favorite example. That book is just awful: and yet it was turned into a really good movie!

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    58. WallyFrench: What do you mean about LOTR? What was the issue you’re mentioning?

      LotR was a pretty aggressive adaptation of the original material. Jackson & Co. focused on the story of “Restoring/preserving natural order” (although Tolkien had said that he intended it to be about Death and Immortality!) and structured it for the screen.

      One thing that they did along the way was “humanize” Tolkien’s almost Jungian archetypes. Book!Aragorn would have had as many people rooting against him as for him in the end! Movie!Aragorn, who basically had to convince himself that he was fit to lead, was a pretty drastic revision that rubbed a lot of book fans the wrong way: but it almost certainly helped make the movies much more popular, both with audiences and critics, than filming Book!Aragorn would have done.

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    59. Wimsey,

      Sorry, but I disagree. Hormones are required for physical and emotional development in males and females. Regular exercise and good nutrition can aid in a castrated youth’s development but those things certainly won’t change their voices.

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    60. Wimsey: The Godfather is my favorite example. That book is just awful: and yet it was turned into a really good movie!

      I really liked the book and hated what they did to it for the movie. They cut out all the most interesting subplots, portraying what it’s like to be a woman living in the Mafia orbit. And they ramped up the violence wherever possible just for shock value – e.g., the ambush at the toll plaza had a grand total of about three shots fired in the book, became a hailstorm of bullets in the movie. For my money (and I’d never paid more than five bucks for a movie ticket before The Godfather came out, costing six), Coppola turned an interesting story about the sociology of organized crime into a self-indulgent, masturbatory macho gorefest. And Marlon Brando sounded like he was talking through a mouthful of marbles like that legendary Greek wannabe orator.

      Yeah, I know that’s not the prevailing critical opinion of the film…but I still get paid to write movie reviews! My point being: Taste is entirely subjective. I know a number of people who only like the first two of the Harry Potter movies.

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    61. Wimsey: But if you just toss a shark onto dry land and expect it to do the same thing as it did in the water, then all you get is a rotten corpse.

      Let’s see, how many Sharknado movies are out now? Despite the fact that a shark hurled through the air is about as dangerous as a Magikarp flopping on the ground? Even if one could deliberately swim at you in a rainstorm, presumably it would probably have other things on its tiny mind besides ‘What am I going to eat next?’

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    62. WallyFrench: Man, if only D&D had given Dorne the proper treatment in trimming some fat but keeping the Queenmaker plot intact. That would have made me crazy happy.

      Agreed. The important aspect of the entire Arianne narrative is the fact that it presents an alternative paradigm for inheritance of rulership: one in which male heirs do not get automatic preference. Had that model been exported to the rest of the Seven Kingdoms, it would have been a complete game-changer. For all we know, GRRM may still be going there.

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    63. Clob: I have to assume that the people that have complained about Missandei and GW scenes are mainly purist book readers that don’t want it included because the ‘relationship’ isn’t in the books. She’s only ten in the books though, so um, yeah.

      One need not be a “purist” to be sad about the disappearance of prepubescent Book!Missandei. It was nice to have a young girl character who was defined by her intelligence and poise.

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    64. Wimsey: Arianne herself came across like the awful Jewish American Princess stereotype, which I found to be both offensive AND silly because I kept envisioning Gilda Radner’s Rhonda Weiss character in all of Arianne’s chapters.

      Seriously? I grew up hearing plenty of JAP jokes from my Jewish friends, and loved Gilda Radner (was just out of college when SNL debuted). But it would never have crossed my mind, in reading Arianne’s chapters, to visualize her as a Gilda character, nor as ‘JAPpy.’

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    65. DragonBallfan: i am glad they got rid of the travalogues,they are fucking garbage and the worst thing in this series,i’ll take any “teleporting” of the characters if it actually means moving the plot instead of wasting my time like in AFFC and ADWD .

      I adore the ‘travelogue’ sections of the books, and particularly miss the voyage of the Shy Maid in the TV version. For many readers, descriptive powers so vivid that they can make passing scenery come alive in our heads are among the hallmarks of a great novelist. Your mileage may vary, but you don’t really need to be so hostile about it.

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    66. Firannion,

      I stand by my point and i would appreciate if you wouldn’t tell me what to be hostile to or not,if i hate something i’m not going to sugercoat it just because you have a different opinion . And no those aren’t the hallmarks of a great novelist,they are the hallmarks of a man who has lost the plot of his series and cares more about writing useless faux history and backgrounds instead of moving the story forward .

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    67. Mary: Sorry, but I disagree. Hormones are required for physical and emotional development in males and females.

      One, testes are the primary source of testosterone: they are not the sole source. (Obviously: otherwise, how would women have testosterone?) Two, testosterone is far from the only hormone (or type of chemical in general) involved in muscle development. Your basic premises are fundamentally wrong here!

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    68. Firannion: But it would never have crossed my mind, in reading Arianne’s chapters, to visualize her as a Gilda character, nor as ‘JAPpy.’

      Arianne walked out of a Herman Wouk story! Seriously, she was the woman of above-average intelligence (albeit not quite as smart as she thinks) who is very frustrated by men not taking her seriously, uses sex as a tool/weapon, etc. This character is in a LOT of 1950’s Jewish-American authored novels.

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    69. Wimsey: Arianne walked out of a Herman Wouk story!

      Good Lord. The last time I saw the name “Herman Wouk” was in 1983. STAAAHHHPPP. Making me. Feel. Old.

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    70. Wolfish: Good Lord. The last time I saw the name “Herman Wouk” was in 1983. STAAAHHHPPP. Making me. Feel. Old.

      heh, we probably are of an age. I went through a “retro Beatnik” phase in the early 1980’s, and read a lot of stuff by 1950’s writers other than Jack Kerouac. Somehow it seemed germane in the early Reagan years. (Or it was to impress a girl.) ((Who am I kidding, it was to impress a girl….)) I subsequently learned that the NYC school was not really considered “beatnik” in the 1950’s: but, then, it turns out that almost nobody knew who Bob Dylan was in the 1960’s, either!

      Go figure….

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