Game of Thrones is deep into its midwinter Icelandic shoot, yet precious little has leaked from this sparsely populated island in the middle of the ocean… perhaps because it’s a sparsely populated island in the middle of the ocean, and the HBO production is filming in the least habitable locations around. Nevertheless, sometimes leaks are inevitable: Kit Harington has been sighted, coinciding with some very important filming.
We have been able to garner some precious information from the show’s stay in Iceland: The show filmed for a day at Svínafellsjökull, later followed by another at Reynisfjara. These two days of filming may appear to be too few, considering Game of Thrones has been on Iceland for two weeks now, and that’s probably because they are too few. Realistically, such a schedule makes little sense, so we should consider most filming may have gone unnoticed, for reasons described above (Big ocean, small place, few people.)
Today, we bring another piece of information to help you piece this puzzle together: Last Friday night, on the 20th, Kit Harington was spotted back in Iceland.
Harington had already traveled to the country for Svínafellsjökull, but left soon after. We didn’t know if he would return, and it wasn’t clear whether he was involved in the shoot near Vík. Now it’s clear the actor was in the country when this filming took place.
His presence neatly fits with our theory about the Reynisfjara scene. However, as it’s based on season seven spoilers, please beware: There are major spoilers ahead!
This scene involved two boats arriving on shore… Two boats that shared a remarkable resemblance to the ones in which Jon Snow and his crew departed Dragonstone. Considering the actors sighted in Iceland around that day of filming, we are increasingly sure the scene involved Jon Snow and his crew arriving at Eastwatch-by-the-Sea. In this dangerous quest beyond the Wall, they will face the White Walkers and their dead army. The look of the location, pictured at the top of the article, supports this speculation too: The Black Sand Beach and the cliff near which the shoot took place seem perfect for the Night’s Watch outpost at the Shivering Sea and the eastern edge of the Wall.
Doors… I fucking hate Doors.
Hold the window!
In the comments of the Insta post, the poster says that they checked out yesterday from their hotel. They might have left Iceland by now?
Most likely.
We’ll see if the crew films anything else, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
Is Beric part of this group too?
Iceland is a small country but there is only a small area where people live. The majority of the country is not much traveled and could be used as part of a shoot no one outside of the production would know about.
GeekFurious,
Exactly. A stay of two weeks for two days of filming is completely out of proportion. They probably shot quite a lot without anyone noticing.
Similar in a way to a small band of people traveling around the northern North and beyond the wall, except it’s a lot of land and hardly any people. 🙂
These beaching shots are weird to me IF this is arriving at Eastwatch. I realize a lot of cgi is involved in showing the castle and end of the Wall, but I’d expect them to use some sort of docks or structures. Eastwatch-by-the-Sea is by the sea of course and it is suppose to keep the small fleet of ships of the Night’s Watch that they use for patrols and trading. Why would they beach on the sands of the shore when Eastwatch should have docks, a pier, something? It seems like it would be more realistic if this was a landing north of the Wall, but I guess we don’t have all the correct people to assume that…?
I hope this is not a spoiler post but I am assume this plot is loosely coming from the outline provided by GRRM, in which case could Lady Stoneheart ultimately play into this within Winds or Dream or Spring or does she have an alternative fate do we feel?
While initially sceptical of this plot I am growing more excited and looking forward to it playing out in the summer.
Has anyone spotted a director so we have some idea which episode(s) this shoot is for?
Podeswa and Taylor had an exchange on Facebook about how nice must it be to film in Spain because it’s rainy in NI and Podeswa replies “and you still have got Iceland to do” or something like that. There was s screenshot of that somewhere.
Cersei's Brain,
Episode 6
And still no sign of Emilia .. I swear to God that girl is brilliant at keeping a low profile.
This bugs me though. I was hoping we’d get to see her outfit for episode 6. I expect nothing short of badass dragon riding warrior armor !
OT: I see Sue is doing an AMA on reddit tomorrow. I am looking forward to it! I am sure it will be interesting.
wow, I actually got to post on an article before it was overrun with people commenting only for the sake of hearing themselves speak….is it even possible to have a conversation in these comments sections?
Kit just looooves being photographed….
Every time I see that black sand, I want to visit even more. What a hoot it would be to film there! ‘Other’worldly! (Hahahahaha….no? Ok.)
Anarchoprimitiv,
This comment probably doesn’t help, don’t you think? 😉
If I was to run into Nathalie Emmanuel and hold her like that she’d be well within her rights to press charges.
Now, why was that the first thing to cross my mind while looking at that photo?
I never cared that much about Eastwatch-by-the-Sea. but now I can’t wait to see that place in S7.
Cersei's Brain,
Mostly episode 6.
mau,
Same. It’s fun getting a few new locations, despite being so late in the game.
Luka Nieto,
Do you guys know if we’ll see
Speaking of a fleet of ships, do we know why two rowboats are rowing from Dragonstone to Eastwatch-by-the-sea instead of a ship from Dany’s armada?
For those who enjoy studying time lapses between events, how long does it take to row in open ocean from Dragonstone to Eastwatch? Seems Vikingesque.
Marlana,
Obviously they aren’t taking these rowboats all the way. Just to and from their ship (which is CGI.) They always have, in the show. And often in real life.
Flayed Potatoes,
No idea.
Luka Nieto,
Thanks. Me too.
I eagerly await to see the lion sigil over KL. We definitely have to get that one.
Based on some artwork ive seen of Eastwatch online, i can almost imagine how they are going to alter that ridge into the Wall and place a castle there. Also might be interesting to see how the Nights Watch at Eastwatch react to Jon Snow, a former lord commander, showing up to gain passage through the wall.
There are a lot of scenes and interaction im looking forward to this year but with such limited time, and so much action i fear we might not see half of them. I really enjoy the prolonged meetings and interaction of the characters. This season is obviously ripe for that.
Clob,
good point, maybe they will sail past Eastwatch and we will at least see it from a distance and then they will land north of the wall.
Flayed Potatoes,
Are we seeing any Essos locations this year? If not I wonder how that will impact the opening.
Jack Sharpe,
I hope we won’t. I’m so over Essos.
What i really wanna know: where the heck is melisandre???
Jack Sharpe,
Good point!
The trip around the known world will be much shorter if the camera doesn’t have to cross the Narrow Sea (and it won’t.) So I guess they’ll spend more time in each animation. Unless they really add each little new location.
Flayed Potatoes,
Assuming that we don’t return to Essos, I think we’ll likely see a total of 8 locations in the title sequence across the season alone. King’s Landing, Winterfell, Dragonstone, and The Wall are obviously definites.
I’m hopeful they will at least add Oldtown to the starting credits; it is a pretty important location, and it would be good to have a second city in the credits.
King of Winter,
I’d say it’s a good bet that LEAKS
ETA: Am I going crazy or did you change it from 7 to 8? I could’ve sworn you didn’t have DS in your initial list?
Luka Nieto,
With potentially more time to do animations we might see some one episode animations. The camera is easier to more around and such. I still want to see Storm’s End.
BunBunStark,
No, I originally had forgotten DS haha. I meant to add that S1 only had 7 locations and S2 only 8 in title sequence so S7 will be pretty close to if not the same number.
King of Winter,
I’m thinking they might do something like this intro for season 2
Flayed Potatoes,
Wow, that would be amazing to see possibly all new locations in the theme song map, I am going to miss it going over the sea though and showing up Essos since everyone has left there.
Andreas.bovelino,
It’s very possible her filming was all done inside the filming studio in Belfast since most of her scenes usually are inside ones in the past. If so it makes sense that we haven’t really seen the actress since people can be filming there for weeks and if they are subtle sometimes we don’t even know if they filmed or not.
Yeah, I’m hoping very hard that we don’t get the Cliff’s Notes version of the goings-on at Oldtown. I really want to know so much more about
*
and all that other juicy stuff.
* (book spoilers, not TV production leaks)
Flayed Potatoes,
I was writing something earlier but didn’t post it as it ended up wordy and rather pointless. 😛 Your comment kind of ties in though so…
To start, I still see show-Jon as (also) the Lord Commander, just ‘ranging’ south of the Wall rather than north, while Edd is serving as acting LC. He may have said he’s no longer LC but the men weren’t very accepting of that decision. Edd and those at Castle Black may not even send out any word along the Wall regarding the situation, especially if they think he will return. Jon is after all still doing things that the LC needs to do, gather, unite and lead the living against the NK. Sure, enemies will say he abandoned but I don’t think those on his side consider it as such.
If we/they still consider Jon as LC and/or accept him as KitN that could answer any issues they may have regarding his arrival and plans at Eastwatch. Although, I’m curious if it will not be his second time there though (on the show), at least through dialogue. The show doesn’t care much about which place makes sense on a map to fast travel to. Meaning, while going from Winterfell to sail out of White Harbor makes more sense geographically, perhaps they say he sailed out of Eastwatch. It would be a much more private location.
There is another thing I’m curious about that could be answered by that scenario: Tormund
Ramblings about book and show spoilers/leaks regarding Eastwatch…
Firannion,
You must know none of those people have been cast 😉
I’m eager for that storyline in TWOW, but it just ain’t happening in the show.
Yeah, I want to know all of that book-related stuff myself. Sam’s arc in TWOW is going to be pretty cool – I love the chapters where he just learns masses of cool and obscure stuff. With only thirteen episodes left, I doubt we will have time for something as extensive as what we will get in the books ( sadly they really cut down on Sam’s screen time in season six) but am hopeful that we will get to see more of the Citadel than we did in 610 – that library was simply to die for – and possibly the wider city. After all, it has repeatedly been emphasized that the Citadel does not permit the entry of women; this means Sam will have to set Gilly and little Sam up with some sort of accommodation elsewhere in Oldtown.
Luka Nieto,
For a friend that has the maiden name of Walgrave I was hoping they’d cast Broadbent for the part of nutty Archmaester Walgrave. Unfortunately it doesn’t sound like it. Maybe they’ll at least mention the name or have some extra fill it though. hope
Clob,
The Citadel is a perfect place for fun book references, especially if Cogman’s writing. I hope we get some of that.
Firannion,
J’m with you on that. However, I fear that the likely rush to wind things up before the S8 focus on the WW and the Battle for the Dawn will inevitably reduce meaty background material like the workings of the Citadel. D&D will surely place an emphasis on what Sam discovers. They have to cover the cure for Grayscale, how to make or find dragonglass and Valyrian steel, and how Sam handled Gilly before leaving her and Sammy at Horn Hill and going to WF. Presumably, they’ll also show them hearing about Jon as KITN and the BoTB, and maybe they’ll discover something important about Jon’s story. I do think a Jaqen showing could be useful as further payoff for the Braavos story line and maybe even an explanation of why they seemed to recruit and advance Arya. Personally, I’d like to see Alleras, who could also become the new ruler of Dorne if Euron-Cersei snuff out the other Sands.
I do think that the conversation Sam had with the receptionist maester in 610 set up Sam finding out about what happened to Jon in 610 before he finds out what happened to him in 510. They made a big deal over the fact that information isn’t making it south from Castle Black, and it was clear that their record-keeping on who is in charge where is pretty extensive. If this is the case, it will be interesting to see how Sam reacts to the news that Jon is KiTN.
Luka Nieto,
Speaking of OldTown, are there any sightings of Jim Broadbent ( pardon me if I had missed some posts),
Tatjana,
No. He probably filmed all of his scenes indoors, at Titanic Studios.
I’m currently at Iceland, what a coincidence. Actually today (January 23rd) I have visited both places named at the text, Svínafellsjökull and Reynisfjara. According to the comments they may stay more time filming in Iceland.
How could I get any information in order to visit some filming places? Even from a far situation like the photo of the beach…
I guess it is top secret information but as a big fan it would be awesome to see the filming from the distance.
By the way, today we had a really awfull weather in the south of Iceland. Winter lives here!!!
Alex,
Thanks!
Alba Stark,
Yeah, I would expect any news Sam hears to be rather confusing if it’s not a letter directly to him from Jon (or through Maester Wolkan whom appears to be remaining as maester at Winterfell). Official letters sent out proclaiming Jon as KitN most likely won’t include exact details on how it came about.
After Sam left Castle Black I doubt there are many ravens being sent out from there and Edd doesn’t seem like the correspondence type anyway. Who else knows what truly happened there that would even consider informing the Citadel? They’re probably not too keen on spreading word of a mutiny either – or mutinies. We haven’t seen a replacement for Yoren’s job but if there is one I suppose word could spread that way. It seems likely that anything from CB would spread slowly and not be very accurate by the time it would reach Sam.
And the filming in Wolf Hill Quarry continues… and continues… and continues.
I wonder what they are shooting there?
Flayed Potatoes,
Luka Nieto,
I’m not trying to shamelessly self-promote, but I think you guys would enjoy this video I made. I stitched together all the locations shown in the credits sequence, and overlaid footage from different episodes to eliminate all credits possible to make the ideal full-length title sequence featuring every location ever visited.
As a big fan of the title sequence (I made a huge spreadsheet with the locations of each episode to help make the video), I can’t wait to see the new places they create for season 7. I’m sure they’ll show Oldtown in addition to changing the King’s Landing sigil from a Baratheon stag to a Lannister lion.
Here’s the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkFBeRnISdc
I love the changes in the title sequence! I hope it doesn’t fall through the production cracks.
Firannion,
I am also most interested in the Marwyn/magic story line in the books. Too bad it looks like we’ll have to wait for the books to get the rest of the story. But I’m really looking forward to seeing that library again!
Even if it did include a graphic description of the events surrounding Jon’s murder and resurrection, I doubt many would believe them. Sam – and anyone else who has encountered Melisandre or seen what Thoros is capable of with Beric – has a better chance of believing it than most. Perhaps this is somewhere the anti-magic attitude of the maesters (hinted at with Luwin in his discussions with Bran at Winterfell in seasons one and two) could come into play? If Wolkan doesn’t believe in what happened, even if he is told about it, is he likely to put it in his reports to the Citadel? The hints we got from 610 suggest that the maesters are supposed to report back to the Citadel regularly. Or, Jon may not want it widely known – he doesn’t exactly have a history of being able to open up emotionally (remember 409 when Sam asked him about Ygritte and all Jon would tell him was the color of her hair?). I am looking forward generally, though, to seeing how various characters react to the news that Jon is KiTN, particularly people like Sam and Cersei/Jaime.
The Citadel certainly don’t seem to have heard from Castle Black since prior to Commander Mormont’s death (which was in season three) so I would guess that since then ravens have only been sent to various lords asking for aid, as Jon did in season five. Edd is, I think, relying on Jon rallying support to get aid for the Watch rather than sending ravens to those in the south; the Stark in Winterfell has, after all, always been the best source of support for the NW. As for rumors of mutiny – Tyrion told Jorah in season five that he had “heard” his father had been killed by his own men, suggesting that it had been rumored that was the case. I doubt Edd or the remaining Night’s Watch guys would want it widely known that two successive Commanders were killed in this fashion as it is hardly going to help recruitment. They do still seem to be getting recruits, as Jon and Grenn work with some of them in season four, so perhaps either we simply haven’t seen Yoren’s replacement on screen or – as is the case in book canon – there is more than one person assigned to this task.
ghost of winterfell,
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPlOXQQB_3s/?taken-by=redkinglundi
They all left on sunday.
Ser Bergh,
It could be lot of things .last year around this late they filmed balon and euron scene on the rope bridge ..
So I was watching Filmbuff’s reaction to red wedding and went back to watch episode again ..
That episode had lots of good moments .
Queenscrown .,jorah GW and Daario’s different fighting styles.. And ofcourse red wedding itself ..
But I don’t know about you guys
The scene I must have watched or listened to is Greywind and Robb’s army marching towards the crossing ..I don’t know why but I guess its due to transition from Cat’s voice over and that brilliant sound track by Ramin..
For me dany’s tracks always be the best of show in any season but Robb’s and theon’s and Robert arriving at winterfell and rains of castamere ( especially when tywin saying the battle is over and we have won and tyrion’s I demand trial by combat to tywin )
Catspaw Assassin,
Kit is known to be very friendly with the fans but the way some of the ladies cozy up to him I have wondered if he’s totally cool with it, or secretly feeling just a wee bit violated lol.
Andreas.bovelino,
She was banished, never to go north again or King Jon would see her hang ‘member? 🙂
But we all know they’ll meet again… I do have a feeling she will not be in this season much though. Hope I’m wrong, she’s an interesting character.
phantomcloud,
Are you just guessing or do you actually know something?
phantomcloud,
Care to be more specific?
There was something on Reddit from a respectable contributor that says there will be a teaser trailer next month with a line of dialogue. This is being used to verify now some of the leaks – I think it’s a line which is spoken by Sam.
Ps nobody has disclosed anymore than that as far as I know.
Jon Snowed,
Could you share the link, please?
I don’t have it, I read about it on westeros.org spoiler thread.
Jon Snowed,
Unfortunately i don’t follow that terrible site so can you give a more specific source ?
Not exactly. He said very soon, not next month. But yes, next month is very likely.
Been searching for a link from time to time, but I’m at work, so don’t really have much time right now. So far I haven’t found anything, but I’m sure it will show up sooner or later. Always does.
Someone posted a pic on IG with Emilia Clarke in Belfast, saw no other cast. I wonder if she just got there or has been there the entire time.
ygritte,
I wouldn’t be surprised if leaks spoilers
phantomcloud,
More like what?
Does anybody have a link to the reddit guy who mentioned the teaser trailer?
Emilia in Belfast 10h ago. Finally the Queen has emerged ! I was beginning to worry !
https://twitter.com/emilia_updates/status/824077922956812289
Kit with a fan in Iceland yesterday, January 24th
I thought they left two days ago!
Either Emilia is in Belfast alone or Kit’s photo is from two days ago and they all went back to Belfast !
https://instagram.com/p/BPqh0aSAo9a/
The Kit photo is from a few days ago, the girl who took the photo says.
Sue, could you please verify through your sources if Ben Hawkey is part of Season 7?
Alba Stark,
I confess I’m biased in favor of Arya and think Maisie Williams is terrific, so what I’m looking forward to seeing is Arya discovering that Jon Snow is King: perhaps she stops at an inn somewhere for a snack, casually mentions “I’m Arya. Arya Stark”, and she’s shocked when everyone drops to one knee and calls her “my Princess!”
(Then she can playfully push them down like she did with Gendry, and demand, “Do NOT call me ‘My Princess’!”)
In all seriousness, I doubt we’ll get an emotional Arya-Jon reunion so soon on the heels of the mid-Season 6 Jon-Sansa reunion, but Arya’s discovery of Jon’s coronation would be a nice consolation prize for now.
Have to admit, Arya is my favorite. I can’t wait to see her find out Jon is KiTN, mostly because it will be confirmation for her that he is alive and that Winterfell is under Stark rule again. I hope that will be enough for her to turn north rather than south when she leaves the Twins. When she spoke to the Waif in 603 (I think it was 603 anyway) about her family, she said that for all she knew, her family could all be dead. Thankfully, that is not the case – and I am really excited to see Arya discover that. If, as LF said to Sansa in 610, news of the BotB spreads quickly through Westeros then we should see reactions to the outcome of it and Jon’s coronation in 701.
Sand Snail,
He’s also rocking his trademark look. Zoolander had “Blue Steel,” what should we call this one?
Alba Stark,
If there’s going to be a “bittersweet” ending for Arya, my prediction is that after all of her declarations (eg to Ned in S1, “I don’t want to be a lady”; in S4E8, when Sandor reminds her “family, honor”… all that horse–t you Lords and Ladies ever talk about”, and Arya retorts “I’m not a lady”; her scene with Gendry in which she acknowledges her mother is a lady, her sister is a lady, but [somehow] she’s not; and her reply to Ned, “No. That’s not me” when he described her future ruling a castle for a High Lord and having sons who’ll be princes, etc), and her daydreams [related to Lady Crane] about sailing off to see what’s west of Westeros….
In the end, family, duty, and honor will compel Arya to live out her days in Winterfell as Princess/Lady of Winterfell.
P.S. My apologies to all those on Team Sansa. My prognostication – part foreshadowing, part “tin foil hat theory”, is that she owes a huge karmic debt that she will eventually repay with a heroic self-sacrifice (and in the process, become the “Nissa Nissa” figure in an embellished version of one of Bran’s projected-into-the-past slideshows). For me, the conspicuously premature tattoos Sophie T and Maisie W got before S8 scripts have even been written, confirmed that Sansa’s a goner. (Or else, commemorative tattoos of the date they were both cast wouldn’t be appropriate until right before or after S8.) Oh, and as others have suggested, Bran Stark’s destiny is probably to merge with a tree somewhere, leaving Arya Stark as the only Stark in Winterfell.
I can’t think of a more “bittersweet” ending for Arya than to be stuck in a castle being addressed as “M’Lady” the rest of her life, wistfully looking over the battlements and thinking of all the adventures she’d dreamed about that she will never get to pursue.
Ten Bears,
I can think of one more bittersweet. She lives a second life in Nymeria, and Jon in Ghost, they only get to reunite in Direwolf form, and It will be the last scene in the show, and in the book(if it ever comes out) and it will be a Ghost POV.
Stark Raven’ Rad,
With the proviso that I have not read the books and have avoided the “leaks”; and on the assumption that one or two “info-dumps” might be coincidence but more than is deliberate foreshadowing (or as Wimsey instructs, “hanging” Chechov’s Gun)…,
I think Sam’s big role in the “end game” will be to figure out how to weaponize Dragonglass into a napalm-like equivalent of dragon fire.
My re-watch of Samwell Tarly’s scenes (with Jon and Stannis in particular) convince me that Sam is one of only a handful of people who knows of the lethal [to White Walkers] properties of Dragonglass, and with Stannis now dead, the only one who knows of the Dragonglass deposits on Dragonstone. (Stannis imparted that information to Sam during their conversation at Castle Black.) Recall that Meera, Bran & Co. were unaware of the lethal properties Dragonglass until Sam related his discovery of the cache at the Fist of the First Men and his later encounter with the WW (and accidental discovery that a DG dagger could kill a WW); as revealed in S5E8 “Hardhome”, even the Wildlings had no idea that DG could kill WW when Jon offered the Wildling chieftans the bag of DG; Jon told them a NW brother he trusts (Sam) had told him he killed a WW with a DG dagger. And of course, most of the population doesn’t even believe WWs exist.
Sam is the one who found the DG cache, spent the time trying to research its history, has taken to heart Stannis’s recognition that it’s essential to figure out how to defeat the WWs when the time comes , and heeded Stannis’s advice
(“Keep reading, Samwell Tarly”). One of the inducements for Jon granting Sam’s request to go to the Citadel was to find some historical data that might help in the imminent war vs. the WWs.
I suspect Sam’s research at the Citadel will reveal that the Dragonglass deposits on Dragonstone were created by the Targaryeans’ dragons; and that there’s a kernel of truth behind the common folk’s description of Dragonglass as “frozen fire.” [Forgot where I read that; might have been in a History & Lore video…]
During the last discussion between Sam and Jon before Sam’s departure from Castle Black, they talked about the effectiveness of Valaryean steel (eg Longclaw) in killing WWs, but also realized there aren’t enough VS weapons left in the Seven Kingdoms to make a difference.
Since the show made a point about the unsuccessful attempt to retrieve the bag of Dragonglass left in the meeting hut at Hardhome (with the Army of the Dead bearing down on them, Jon wanted to make another attempt to recover the DG, but in the immortal words of Doloures Edd: “F-ck the glass!!!”), Sam’s knowledge of the Dragonstone Dragonglass deposits could be crucial.
And I suspect Sam’s research will disclose that DG is infused with dragon fire. (Real obsidian is created by volcanic lava, after all. And in the real world, many metals in pulverized, powdered or finely fragmented form are highly flammable; just light a match and toss it on a pad of extra fine steel wool if you’re curious.) In the pseudo-science/magic of the fictional G of T universe, Dragonglass (like hot-burning magnesium in some fireworks) may be infused with the energy of actual dragon fire.
Which brings me to the “tin foil theory” part of all of this: With Samwell Tarly’s assistance, including his unique knowledge of the value the deposits of Dragonglass on Dragonstone, Jon Snow will fulfill the prophecy of “waking dragons from stone.” [But again, I suspect that this “prophecy”, like many others, is a garbled, embellished, or misunderstood transmission of one of Bran’s slide show transmissions of present events into the distant past, received by a few people whose brains were fried (poor Wyllis), or didn’t know what to make of the disjointed images and muted sounds in the “waking nightmares” they were having.
Of course, I recognize that the birth of actual dragons from Dany’s three petrified dragon eggs is the obvious realization of the “wake dragons from stone” prophecy. But I suspect George Martin likes to throw in an obvious solution to camouflage the actual solution – which turns out to be the more logical one when all is said and done.
Ten Bears,
Excellent analysis! I like this idea a lot. I hope we’ll see something in the vein of what you’ve described unfold on the show (and in the books, eventually).
Rich Evans,
I agree: Reuniting with Jon in direwolf form would be bittersweet. If so, it would’ve been nice if they’d given Nymeria and Ghost more screen time to foreshadow that outcome. (Like many others, I felt that even a cameo by Ghost during Lord Manderly’s proclamation in S6E10, “He is the White Wolf! The King in the North!” would have been appropriate.
While I’m on the subject, I understand that CGI budget constraints forced the producers to eliminate some planned direwolf appearances. But I’d bet that there are so
many direwolf lovers out there who would eagerly donate to a “crowdfunding” campaign to finance direwolf scenes.) ?
Ten Bears,
Intriguing hypothesis! It would be bittersweet indeed if, by unlocking the secrets of how to make dragonglass volatile, perhaps even explosive, our heroes would bequeath to Westeros the technological equivalent of gunpowder. It might help defeat the Others, but it would also make mass killing of humans easier and future wars far more destructive – just like in the real world. ?
Ten Bears,
GRRM has said that the last POV will be Brans.
Firannion,
Bearing in mind they already have wildfire, so if anything I’m guessing this could be used against the WWs.
Rich Evans,
Very poetic, symbolic, but also very very sad! I love direwolves, but I’d like Jon and Arya to meet in human form and enjoy some happiness as humans.
Ten Bears,
I love your analysis and I think it might be the real revelation.
It’s a possibility, but in my understanding that is not “bitterSWEET”, just very very bitter. What’s the sweet part IYO?
Also, I don’t really see why Arya would owe a debt. She killed a few people that wronged her and her family, yes, and today we consider self-administered justice (is that the right term?) wrong, but in the context of ASoIaF, I don’t see how she went so horribly wrong that her deeds would call for a punishment on a cosmic level…
Apollo,
Re: Wildfire
You could be right about using wildfire against the WW. That was my hypothesis – until I saw that WW stroll through the flames in the burning hut in “Hardhome” to gut the Thenn and nearly kill Jon Snow.
I’m not challenging your observation. I was just under the impression that wildfire (in the show universe) is a scientific creation, whereas Dragonglass has some kind of unique magical properties to which WWs are vulnerable.
Then again, you may be 100% right – but as Bronn forewarned before the Battle of the Blackwater, wildfire is so volatile that in the fog of war, those who try to use wildfire are just as likely to blow themselves up.
Vally,
Vally:
Sorry if I was not clear. I intended to convey my belief that Sansa (not Arya) owes a “karmic debt.”
I’m not referring to the usual criticisms about failing to tell the truth about Joffrey vs. the Butcher’s Boy or seeming to take the Lannisters’ side to preserve her misguided dream of becoming Joffrey’s future queen.
I was alluding to her witnessing LF cruelly kill Ser Dontos; allowing LF to continue creating havoc even after assassinating Joffrey and leaving Sansa holding the bag (i.e. allowing Sansa and Tyrion to be falsely framed), killing Lysa (and if I recall correctly, hearing Lysa confess that she “killed” for LF); and in general, allowing LF anywhere near her family, especially since she knows his ultimate objectives. Sansa may also regret her lack of candor to Jon Snow.
Justifiable or not, I suspect Sansa will be confronted with a choice between self-preservation and self-sacrifice – and choose the latter
Ten Bears:
I share much of your interpretation. I too think (hope) that Arya ends up as the lady Lord of Winterfell. Though she’d necessarily have to curtail her adventurousness, she would pioneer her own unconventional way to rule. She would listen to small folk as well as highborn, she would ensure justice, she would promote practicality, responsibility, respect, and fairness. Ned himself did those things, but with her FM abilities, Arya might also go incognito among the Northerners to learn the actual state of things, and she would surely use her abilities to sift lies from truth for good. If she marries, she probably won’t just let her husband rule for her, but would likely bring up her children minimising gender stereotypes and teach them to love the people. I have little patience with Sansa, but while she doesn’t have her sister’s open, generous, and empathetic character, she usually means well. You’re probably right that she owes a karmic debt after consciously allying herself with the devil figure, but she had been through a comfortable but hellish few years and wanted control for safety. It would be reasonable for her to end up marrying Robin Arryn and shaping him into a finer young man, all the while having him wrapped around her little finger [Accidental pun, but it stays as it’s so appropriate]. Where Bran would be in all this post-endgame scenario, I don’t know. But if he’s at WF and had refused the title, I hope he will still be active guiding the North, Westeros, and humankind. Presumably, Jon would be king or dead, alas.
I don’t want to see any character used for sacrifice (except maybe Melisandre, who practices sacrifice herself and believes in it religiously) or subsumed in an animal. Human sacrifice is universally abhorrent; the show would completely discredit itself if they used it. And if Jon and Arya don’t have a terrific reunion, the Internet, critics, and readers will howl with disappointment and anger. As it is, since an S7 reunion doesn’t seem indicated, many fans are already frustrated and/or apprehensive.
Stark Raven’ Rad,
I don’t think Sansa will be “sacrificed” a la the Shireen barbecue. ☹️. There’s been a lot of what I’d call “negative Chekhov’s Gun” foreshadowing [Wimsey probably knows the correct term] indicating Sansa won’t be around at the end, and I think playing “anagrams” with the letters in “Sansa” is close enough to “Nissa” to presage her self-sacrifice for the greater good: not an involuntary death, but a conscious decision to give her own life in a situation to protect others from death.
(I sketched this out a while back, with show-only supporting references. I’ll have to try to condense it to make it sound coherent.)
Once again, I humbly ask anyone who contends “the leaks” disprove my suppositions to refrain from bashing me. I don’t know or want to know what “the leaks” are.
P.S. I mentioned this in a prior comment about inadvertently stumbling upon an extra’s “leaks” of Battle of the Bastards. Not only were his “leaks” incomplete and not entirely accurate, but (for me) the best part of that episode took me completely by surprise: the opening 20 minutes of Dany’s three dragons vs. the Masters’ armada in Mereen.
Gravemaster,
Gravemaster:
There are rumors that Hot Pie will be back???!!!
I’d like to see that. I thought Hot Pie’s character development was so well-done: from arrogant, boastful bully threatening Arya, to kind-hearted, humble, and loyal friend.
I loved their farewell scene when Hot Pie presents her with (his first attempt at baking) a cake or bread in the shape of a wolf, and as she departs she turns around after taking a bite to call out: “Hey Hot Pie! It’s really good!”
(When Brienne encountered Arya in S4E10, my first thought was “hey! Where’s the better wolf bread Hot Pie baked and gave you to give to Arya if you found her?”)
More like “nothing” ;-). The “respectable contributor” on reddit obviously was a fraud, and there’s nothing more about that supposed trailer…
Ten Bears,
You were clear that she would voluntarily sacrifice herself. Though that would be very noble/heroic of her, I still find it disappointing, especially for a major character whose trials and tribulations we’ve lived with for six years. And especially for a Stark. I love the anagram idea–I”d thought of her name as referring to the French word for “without” (“sans”), but the near-anagram is quite interesting. Does losing Lady by siding with the enemy count as a negative Chekhov’s gun? I don’t know the technical literary word, but the direwolves are analogues or symbols of the Stark kids, reflecting their personal characteristics. Only Arya carefully chose a real historical person, perhaps to reflect her aspirations or maybe her destiny. I agree about the foreshadowing, though there’s plenty of ominous foreshadowing for lots of characters (most notably the Valonqar prophecy) , much of which D&D have omitted from the show, so who knows if they’ll use any of it? Anyway, I admire how you’ve thought all this through.
Stark Raven' Rad,
It’s a bit hard for me to articulate, but what I was getting at with the term “negative Chekhov’s Gun” – to follow the metaphor – is a conspicuous empty space on the wall where you’d expect a gun to be. For example, after Brienne saved Sansa and they were sitting around talking about Brienne’s encounter with Arya, I found it odd – and likely deliberate – that Brienne said Arya was with “a man”, and did not mention Sandor/The Hound by name. (From Pod, Brienne knew exactly who Sandor was and that Sansa surely knew him.) So I assume from that omission that Sansa will not have any further interaction with The Hound. I think the omission was deliberate, to preclude Sansa (or the audience) from reminiscing about Sansa’s history with Sandor. (With apologies to all the “San-San” folks out there.)
By contrast, I’ve counted a ridiculous number of callbacks and references to The Hound in Arya’s story and vica versa, portending that they both have unresolved emotions for each other that will be addressed when they meet again. (Or maybe that’s my inner fanboy and wishful thinking leading me astray…)
LEAKS
Ten Bears,
Love the analysis, even though it would be heartbreaking and most, most bittersweet.
Rich Evans,
I made a very similar comment, about all of them finishing out their lives in their direwolves, on a different post! Glad I’m not alone in thinking that might pass. 🙂
Ten Bears,
I’ve always wondered about that omission; it seemed so odd. As a book reader I am a SanSan shipper, although I’m not entirely pleased with where Sansa is right now. I love the Hound’s relationships with both the Stark sisters (in very different ways, obviously), and do hope that he and Arya have some sort of satisfactory closure. She has had to be so guarded for so long (with the notable exceptions of Gendry and Hot Pie); I would love to see her acknowledge to the Hound that the realization that she didn’t truly want him dead–the root of her ultimate (albeit unconscious) decision to refuse mercy–was an integral part of her maturation.
Ten Bears,
Great analysis. This ties in with some of my ideas about dragonglass and its uses against the WW, specifically that archers with dragonglass arrowheads will be critical.
I found more evidence when I recently finished watching all of the history and lore segments. I found it interesting that Randyll Tarly narrated the segment about The Reach and the illustrations highlighted that the Tarly sigil is an archer: Sam and other archers (including the Dothraki) will be very important.
Also, the segment on Oldtown specifically noted the fused black rock at the base of the hightower and the narrator asked why the island is called Battle Isle. I hope Sam finds that all of the sites described as dragonglass or fused black stone or similar materials (including Harrenhal) can be used as strongholds (or ammunition!) against the WW.
Lonely Cat,
Thanks. Interesting facts and possibilities.
I did note that during Sam’s conversation with Stannis in the Castle Black library (?), Sam mentioned that he’d searched through all of the old manuscripts and (I think) he said all he could find were accounts that the Children of the Forest hunted with Dragonglass. (Though I wondered how the COTF would find a volcanic or dragon-flame produced substance…)
Another “twist” that’s been set up for possible later developments is the embedding of DG shards into a human’s chest: One of Bran’s “vision quests” into the distant past showed how the COTF created a White Walker by embedding a piece of DG into that freaked-out man tied to a tree. On the other hand, Uncle Benjen related to Meera and Bran how the COTF used that same process to turn him into an undead but still sentient “Good Zombie” before the WWs could turn him into a mindless wight. So there are a bunch of different ways they can go with the DG-in-the-chest procedure.
I HOPE one of our heroes doesn’t find himself forced to plunge a DG shard into his own chest (and become a human-wight hybrid) to be able to fight the undead army like Benjen had been doing.
I also wonder if Sam or somebody else discovers a way to reverse the process, by extracting the DG or something. (But that’s probably too far-fetched; I assume that removing the “animating” power source just means that an undead corpse will become a truly dead corpse. I’m sure they’d resist the temptation to throw in a Monty Pythonesque scene of a corpse with a ripped open chest after primitive open-heart surgery to remove the DG shard, meekly raise his head and insist “I’m not dead yet…”)
Which reminds me of another unanswered question: Did we ever learn how the COTF make those anti-wight exploding fireballs? Or the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch that Leaf used to blow up herself and the swarming wights to buy time for Bran, Meera and Hodor to escape from the 3ER cave? I guess those incendiary devices aren’t effective against WW, but they sure did a good job incinerating wights.
Anyway, I’m intrigued by what kind of offensive and defensive weaponry the good guys will have to come up with, considering that the Army of the Dead is pretty huge already, and every human battlefield casualty left unburned increases its size.
Addendum (Wishful Thinking): I do NOT want to know any details about the “leaks”, but I hope the frozen north filming locations (Iceland and that quarry in N. Ireland) means we will see Karsi again, even if in blue-eyed undead form.
Ten Bears,
I think someone might actually find themselves in that situation though, having to choose between turning into a WW or having DG thrust in their chest and becoming half dead like Benjen. A question I have about that is though can anyone change someone with DG or does it need to be someone who has magic like the children of the forest?
Mel,
Ah, good point about the COTF DG transformation process. I’ll try to retrieve and rewatch the WW creation scene that Time-Tripping Bran witnessed to see if the COTF used magical incantations or something. But if you’re right – and the process requires some COTF magic ingredient – if the COTF are now extinct that could be a problem.
Your reply reminded me of something else I’ve been pondering (well, fearing): It seems almost inevitable that one or more “well-known” characters will be turned into wights. So far, only a few unfamiliar NW brothers and single-episode guest star Karsi*
have been turned.
For the stakes to become “real”, characters in whom we’ve become emotionally invested – whether as villains or heroes – will have to become soldiers in the Undead Army. For shock value alone, not to mention dramatic effect, I figure this has got to happen. I was super spooked seeing blue-eyed Karsi raised from the dead during the closing scene of “Hardhome.” I’m going to brace myself for one or more of my favorites (eg Bronn, Tormund, Davos) becoming a mindless ice zombie. (If it happens to Arya or Lyanna Mormont, I stop watching.)
I wouldn’t mind seeing Littlefinger get killed, and then be resurrected as a wight so he can be killed again. ?
* [I won’t even try to spell the name of the actress – Birgitte _____?]
Hmmm… My impression when I first saw that scene was that the same magic that had created the wights could be used to reverse (or at least partly reverse, in Benjen’s case) wightiness (to use another poster’s fun word). I thought Benjen was already in the process of becoming a wight when the CotF found him. Or has the coffee not hit, and I’m misunderstanding your comment?
On another note… Yeah, I’d love to know about those exploding fireballs too.
One of the questions I have is; when someone dies up at the wall or beyond the wall, they say burn them to keep them from turning to White Walkers. BUT. At Winterfell they still bury them? How is this explained? Why does that only happen up at the wall or beyond? Why doesn’t the dead become Whitewalkers at Winterfell and further south?
Ten Bears,
There are some rumours that Starks cannot be changed into zombies. If so, that might mean that they simply die, but who knows? Mormonts might be susceptible, but I agree–it’s unacceptable to do that to the baby bear.
Stark Raven Rad,
I Think that would be the Starks with the Warg ability that would be the only reason they wouldn’t turn but in the show, only Bran has that ability so it wouldn’t make sense for the others to be immune only people who have magic are likely to be immune.
I don’t want the older bear going through that either, his suffered enough
Birgitte Hjort Sørensen 🙂
Great point, and at least one supporting character on the show has already survived the horrific experience of having a loved one go wight: Osha, whose husband disappeared, returned undead, and tried to kill her. She ultimately had to burn their home down with him in it to survive. Prelude to something greater?
Mayhaps greyscale is the agent the Valyrians used to melt and solidify stone into roads and castle walls, and turn living beings such as gargoyles into crenels. The author makes a big deal about the creatures, so varied and lifelike, that are the crenels of Dragonstone. Even the Pirates talk about them.
You state interesting ideas about obsidian. Mayhaps obsidian interrupts the energy holding the WWs together, so that they dissolve into a mist and blow away. Mayhaps obsidian instead of carbon is smelted with iron to produce Valyrian steel. The silicon of obsidian is related to carbon. WWs could be silicon based life forms.
Ten Bears,
I agree with you both about my girl Arya and Sansa, the same thing came to my mind when I saw those tattoos
Ten Bears,
Inner fan girl with you again on this one, my all time favourite duo, there just has to be more interaction
Ten Bears,
I feel like a stalker now, but you reminded me of one question I don’t know the answer to: I haven’t read the books yet, so I don’t understand the difference between WW and wights as wights can go across the wall (like those two in Castle Black) and yet WW can’t since the wall is , as I read somewhere, protected by some sort of magic (and thanks to our dear Bran they will … probably…)
Rygritte,
Appreciate the reply, but I am Leaks!-averse. Personally, I find it more enjoyable to extrapolate from the 60 existing episodes and the filming updates judiciously reported on this site so as not to spoil the real surprises that await when S7 unspools.
It was tempting to click on your grey-covered reply to see if I’m on the right track, or if I should start buying rolls of tin foil in bulk. If my predictions turn out to be ridiculous, I won’t hesitate to confess: “A man…can only admit when he was wrong, and ask forgiveness.”
Unless this “Lads (?)” character got his hands on a complete set of finalized filming scripts and has reproduced them verbatim, word for word, the recitals of this anonymous intellectual property thief could not do justice to what we’ll see from the show’s producers, actors and special effects wizards.
I imagine if this leaker lived 400 years ago, his ” leaks”” of an upcoming new production would go something like this:
“Boy and Girl meet cute at a party and fall in love at first sight. Only later do they learn they’re members of feuding families They hook up in secret, get a quickie wedding, and then play grownups nonstop for days on end. There’s apparently some dialogue too.
Following a bunch of bedroom scenes with syrupy love talk, they come up for air. Boy goes for a stroll downtown with his buddy when they’re accosted by a sword-wielding ruffian. There’s sword fight. The attacker kills Boy’s friend; Boy kills the attack. Boy is forced to leave town for violating a strict ban on sword fighting in the street imposed by the governing royal family. Meanwhile, Girl’s parents tell her the prince of the Royal family is enamored with her, and they’ve eagerly agreed to an arranged marriage – the next day.
So Girl devises a plan to escape the forced wedding and reunite with Boy. She sends
him a letter laying out all the details: With a death-simulating potion supplied by a friendly pharmacist, she’ll fake her own suicide, wake up two days later in the chapel, and run off to him.
However, Boy never gets the letter. When he hears she has died, he is inconsolable. Distraught, he vows to join her in death: He buys a vial of poison, heads off to the chapel, cradles her motionless “body”, gulps down the poison – and promptly dies.
A few seconds later, Girl awakens from the drug-induced stasis, sits up – and sees Boy’s corpse beside her with the empty vial of poison. Girl finds his dagger, stabs herself, and dies. Their families grieve together.
The End
This is an extreme example (or a poor one), but there is no way the hypothetical “leaked” synopsis of “Romeo and Juliet”
could capture any of the poetry or the emotion in the words. The “magic” isn’t in where characters are or what they are doing. For that reason, I consider the GoT S7 “leaks” to be not only thievery, but useless or misleading. Speculation and criticism of S7 based on the nameless leaker’s
summary doesn’t incorporate the elements of G of T that make it special.
Back to my Romeo and Juliet illustration….
I would imagine that the reactions of readers of “leaks” of the story lines of an upcoming new play by William Sgakespeare 400 years ago would be similar to those based on the “leaks” of S7 of G of T, e.g.:
1. What a hack that Shakespeare is! The tired old undelivered or misrouted letter bit is the oldest cliche in the book! Plot hole! Cheap twist! Lazy writing !
2. So what’s this new show all about? A fake suicide then two real suicides? Ummm….I think I’ll pass. Sounds too depressing, too boring, and too stupid.
3. This W. Shakespeare fellow is obviously a no-talent clueless writer. He completely butchered the source material.
“Will Shakespeare?”
Yeah, I will shake my spear at him.
4. This new show is being billed as a tale about the nature of love and romance. Really? The boy and girl both kill themselves at the end? Without even seeing each other alive again for one second ? Where’s the romance in that ?
5. I can go in for a good sword fighting show – if the choreography’s good. But this isn’t really going to be a swords-and-sabres gorefest, is it….
A girl on her balcony privately expressing thoughts about the fellow who unbeknownst to her is secretly eavesdropping on her from the ground below…. Sounds like a Peepng Tom – voyeur Chaucer ripoff. Come on Shakespeare, we’ve got enough reboots and remakes of Greek and Roman plays as it is.
6. What kind of sicko writer kills off all his main characters ?
7. Well, I guess I don’t need to go see this now. I got caught up in all the hype, but it’s just another or of those teens from different sides of the tracks stories – except without a happy ending. And no undercover prince on horseback colliding with the headstrong country girl; no ugly duckling – to- swan makeover; no menagerie of anthropomorphic forest animals; and no snooty high class villainous using dirty tricks to undermine the kind-hearted heroine. Nah. Double suicide just doesn’t scream “romance!”
8. No dragons ?
9. “Fan fiction!” “Lazy writing!” “Nothing really happens.!”
10. It’s irresponsible to exploit the tragedy of teen suicide as a plot device. There was no reason for its gratuitous insertion into the story. Glorifying suicide as a romantic act is shameful. It’s the 1500s! Haven’t we moved past that already ?
11. Why wasn’t there an antidote to the poison ? Don’t they come as a set? Besides, everyone knows poison’s a woman’s weapon. Real men kill with steel (especially – themselves). Commit seppuku or fall on your sword; don’t take the milquetoast’s easy way out.
12. Soooo… Is this supposed to be an anti-drug propaganda thing? A morality play about the dangers to young women of misuse of powerful sedatives ? Bad things happen when you’re out cold and virtually comatose – like being oblivious to your boyfriend showing up and killing himself.
13. This is only Episode 1. I heard the sequel is going to be full-on zombie. The two young lovers are going to rise from the dead. (Or maybe they’re vampires? I get confused. )
14. I heard the original script had a witch resurrect them both at the end, but they cut that part because of the budget.
15. The Globe Thester is a dump anyway. General Admission floor “seating” means standing on dirt and hay for two hours.
16. They took away the Girl’s agency. She had agency. Then she didn’t have agency. [What the f-ck is “agency” anyway, and who started using that word this way? “Agency” means acting on behalf of another.]
Ten Bears,
Don’t worry I won’t say anything about the leaks except to say it wasn’t actual scripts it was only basic summaries of events that happen so it is very possible that the leaker missed things that perhaps they deemed as less important but will come as a surprise to us.
You are right it’s impossible to tell from a summary how good a season will be, just like when you look at IMDB at the sypnosis and some people write about the summary of a whole movie, you don’t think much of it until you see it with your own eyes and hear it with your own ears and it surpasses your expectation of that small summary you read.
I really hope no one leaks the last season or at least keeps it out of social media, knowing the ending would ruin the show.
Tatjana,
White Walkers vs. Wights: I’m no expert, but based only on
the show’s revelations, it’s my understanding that Wights are dead humans reanimated into mindless automatons controlled by the White Walkers. The Wights make up the Army of the Dead. I guess Wights can follow simple (telepathic?) commands like “Play dead; once the Nights Watch guys take you inside Castle Black, go kill LC Mormont”; or [in “Hardhome”]; “Go massacre all those humans you see down there.” For the WWs, each human killed is essentially a 2 for 1 special: one less enemy soldier, and (upon reamimation) one more Wight for the Army of the Dead. (Pretty good deal.)
White Walkers are sentient beings. Last season we learned from one of Bran’s “time tripping” experienced that the Children of the Forest created WWs long ago from captured humans infused with Dragonglass shards, for use as a weapon of mass destruction against invading humans who were exterminating the COTF. The COTF eventually made peace with humans, but somehow they lost control of the WWs at some point. (I don’t think we’ve been shown why that happened.)
Also, at the end of one episode (I think in S2 or S3), we also saw that spooky scene in which a WW took that Craster baby, laid it on an icy platform, and by touching the baby’s cheek turned it into a blue-eyed (baby WW?). I don’t recall any explanation about what happens to those transformed babies, i.e. do they grow into “adult” WWs right away, or attend WW boarding school and go through boot camp until they’re old enough to graduate and join the WW Officers Club?
I’m guessing that the WW don’t know how to do the COTF’s Dragonglass shard in the chest method of human >WW conversion, or they’d just capture some human adults whenever they wanted to expand their ranks.
Then there’s what I call the Wight-Human hybrid: Uncle Benjen. He explained that he’d been attacked and mortally wounded but before the process of dying and reamimation as a Wight was completed the COTF
used the DG shard in the chest trick to turn him into … a pseudo Wight? I think he’s technically “dead”, but hasn’t lost his sentience or humanity.
He did say he can’t traverse the Wall.
I’m a bit confused about the properties of the Wall and 3ER Cave “magical” barriers.
From Uncle Benjen’s “info-dump” to Meera and Bran, magic infused in the Wall prevents WW from passing through. On the other hand, those stealth WW corpses who attacked LC Mormont made it through.
The 3ER tree cave had been impervious to WWs and Wights (assuming those skeletons popping out of the snow when Bran & Co. first arrived were Wights); the Wight skeletons who tried to follow Bran & Co. into the cave entrance immediately disintegrated.
Finally, Bran’s incredibly dumb decisions to go tree tripping on his own while the 3ER was napping somehow enabled the WW Night King to touch him and give him that forearm tattoo – which (I guess) destroyed the magical barrier and allowed the WWs and Wights to get inside the cave and kill 3ER, Summer ?, Leaf (well, self-immolation with the hand grenade), and Hodor ?☹️??.
I sure hope Bran isn’t stupid enough to try to traverse the Wall without asking himself the obvious question: “Well, if my Night King tattoo dissolved the Cave’s magical barrier, what if it does the same thing to the Wall’s magical barrier?” After his first boneheaded move cost the lives of his whole crew except for Meera, I’d be shocked if he ignores the likelihood that his idiocy could singlehandedly destroy mankind’s best and last defensive structure and allow the WW Army to swarm through, killing who knows how many people.
(I’m hoping he’ll consider opting for “the Full Jaime” and lop off his own arm.)
One final mystery (to me): I understood that when Bran went “tree tripping”, he wasn’t physically present in the events he was witnessing; his image was sort of a visual avatar. Young Ned didn’t see him at TOj. But I could not tell if young Wyllis was actually looking at Bran, or was just in the throes of his brain-frying waking nightmare of his future self getting clawed to death while he held the door. ? (Still…so sad?)
But during Bran’s ill-advised solo trip into the middle of the Undead Army, the Night King plainly saw and touched Avatar Bran, which branded Real Bran with the NK tattoo. (Maybe he can now get into WW nightclubs without paying a cover charge, but that tattoo is a real narrative conondrum.)
I remain confused whether the Night King shares some kind of tripping ability that allowed him to see and touch Avatar Bran while physically affecting Real Bran; or if Bran’s physical proximity to the Undead Army during a “real time” tree tripping rendered him vulnerable.
If I sound hopelessly perplexed, I am
If anyone has any explanations for the WW “mysteries”*, I would be interested to read them. BUT PLEASE! NO “LEAKS”!
* almost forgot: what’s the deal with the spiral shape of the rock formations shown in the WW origin scene – and similar spiral shapes in which WWs arrange body parts of slaughtered horses (and people?) ?
Tatjana,
Maisie/Arya is the reason I started watching the show.
I was a latecomer to the game. I didn’t start watching G of T until HBO ran a marathon of S1 – S3 shortly before the start of S4. However, after just the first two episodes I thought Maisie Williams was phenomenal.
Her scenes with Syrio, Yoren, and Tywin were all so well acted.
But of course, her adventures with The Hound are the gold standard. Always “Rewatchable.”
I’ve yet to decide if my favorite is the concluding 9 minutes of S4E1 (“Two Swords” aka “Every F–cking Chicken in this Room”), the Sandor face-burning confession/wound dressing scene (S4E?), or their banter on the way to the Bloody Gate concluding with Arya’s laughing fit (S4E?).
But with 60 hours of “show canon” to draw on, and time I can spend rewatching favorite clips while I’m a captive in waiting rooms, dentist chairs, or supermarket check-out lanes, I began to notice recurring themes and parallel “trajectories” of these two characters.
My rule of thumb is that 1 or two could be instances could be coicidental, or just wishful thinking on my part. But 3 or more callbacks or conspicuous references signals to me that there’s a deliberate design. Some are too overt to ignore.
Just one example was the conspicuous inclusion of Arya’s conflicted feelings about The Hound during her truth-or-lie interrogations at the House of Black and White. (On the first occasion, when Jaquen would whack her each time she tried to insert a little lie into her narrative of “Arya Stark’s” family and history, her insistence that she “hated” The Hound earned her two thwacks and the pronouncement that “A girl lies to me, to the Many Faced God, and to herself.” The second time, the Waif’s questions about “Arya Stark’s family” led to “Tell me about the Hound”)
There are so many glaring reminders and parallels I’ve come across that they cannot be accidental
If I can ever figure out how to use the edit feature, I’d like to list them all in succinct form and see what you think.
Ten Bears,
now you are scaring me, could you be my secret more articulate and eloquent twin? where to start? would you believe me if I told you I also binge watched first three seasons just before the start of season 4? I watched first two episode and I just couldn’t with Sansa’s master manoeuvres (Lady and Arya;s friend never forget) and then I got spoiled about Ned Stark … and it took me three years to start…and now I am, well, obsessed. I skilfully avoided many spoilers , the first thing I googled was Nymeria, because I couldn’t get enough of Arya.
These days, I am binge watching with my 19yo nephew and it’s such a joy, he hasn’t got a single clue and I haven’t spoiled anything for him (except occasionally yelling my girl Arya) and with a friend who equally enjoys both the books and the show and it’s quite a ride. All the chicken. My favourite duo ever. Just tonight, we watched season 4e07 till season 5 episode 7, ask me how many times we rewound Arya’s laugh tonight? Or how I screamed with thrill every time Jaquen whacked her for incorrect answer. And Hardhome is my all time favourite , I am so envy of my nephew who is about to watch it for the first time.
or, let me tell you how I haven’t read the books yet, though I have them all , and yet while searching for some backstory before, I read few pages like Broken man or North remembers, and some Doran thoughts and was completely fascinated (I didn’t know about that Arya needle thoughts and I thank you for telling me) and Mr Martin knows how to write (and English is not my native language)
Also, I would love to hear your thoughts on Bran’s time tripping as you said, to be exact, do you think that Bran did to the Mad King the same thing he did to Hodor
Is it suffice to say I had same thoughts about dragonglass?
And WW, I know the ”technical” difference between them, what interests me is why ”lower race” as wights can pass by the wall and WW can’t (one more question I keep asking myself these days is Are WW truly villains of the story especially knowing how Mr Martin reminds us constantly how no one is absolutely good nor absolutely evil, not even honorable Ned Stark)
Back to our dear Arya, I once again agree, there is no way those reminders and parallels are accidental ( which reminds me, slightly of the topic, but did you notice when Waif and Arya were fighting, the Waif’s face when Arya mentioned Walder Frey, in season 6, I thought it had some meaning back then, and in season 5 Waif was maybe yes may be not lying she was from Westerosi house)
and those spiral shapes you mentioned , thank you for reminding me to ask my book reading friend and if he shares anything meaningful with me I’d be happy to share with you
As they say, Great Minds Think Alike (GMTA). I read the books twice and am currently 9 episodes into season 4 of a re-watch. Unfortunately, this has been slow going as my family too thinks I’m over-obsessed, so I only watch when no one is at home. And speaking of No One, I feel fairly confident that GRRM intends her to be very important in the end game, though in what way is not clear. I hope she survives…as herself.
Ten Bears, I can’t recall whether you’ve read the books. In Book 5, Jon turns early scientist and has the Watch keep two dead wights chained up in the Ice Cells for ‘observation’. Defending this unusual decision, he says “Monsters they may be, but they were men before they died. How much remains? The one I slew was intent on killing Lord Commander Mormont. Plainly he remembered who he was and where to find him … My lord father used to tell me that a man must know his enemies. We understand little of the wights and less about the Others. We need to learn.” It’s such an unusual, enlightened move for that period (the Middle Ages was the bare dawning of empirical science), that it must be important. Maybe in Book 6, after Jon is revived he will solve the riddle. The mere fact of his being a sort of zombie himself may help him.
The above Jon quote implies that wights are not Others. But about the Others, I agree with Ten Bears. In military terms, the wights are the grunts, the foot soldiers who are zombies raised from the multitudinous dead. They follow basic orders in a sort of hive mentality (like the Borg in Star Trek: Next Generation). They can be killed by fire and probably ordinary swords as well. I suspect the White Walkers are created by the touch of the Nights King from stolen or donated baby boys (clearly demonstrated in the Craster’s Keep episodes). I perceive them to be the knights/offiicers/ultimate warriors of the Others army. They can be killed by Valyrian steel and dragonglass but seem immune to fire. And of course the Commander-in-Chief is the NK (parallels to current US politics?). The NK is the strategist, the leader and metaphorically the Other player in the Game of thrones. And his history, which goes back to the Children of the Forest and the days of the First Men, probably prefigures his future. We don’t know what can kill him, but probably neither fire nor Valyrian steel alone, but a perhaps a combination of the two. It is also likely that only certain people can swing the weapon, Azor Ahai or the PTWP, or perhaps anyone with Stark or Targaryen blood. Note, no Other has spoken. Narratively, this keeps them existentially dangerous and mysterious, but the NK and First Men had come to an agreement in ancient history, so communication is probably possible. Maybe all the NK wants is to find a Queen and return to his ‘kingdom’, the Land of Always Winter. Since probably that necessitates a Stark, I think Sansa might do it. Some fans think it would be Arya, but Arya doesn’t aim for a crown and would never marry anyone she doesn’t want to, so that’s less likely. Personally, I hope neither of them has to.
Tatjana,
Replying to 1/28/17 11:49 pm comments:
1. Yes, it seems we’re on the same wavelength ?, or you’re telepathic. I had some thoughts about Our Girl Arya that echo what you wrote. I intended to include them under the more appropriately titled post from Wednesday about a Maisie Williams interview but I got suckered into replying to comment there that declared Maisie W always lies and nobody can believe anything she says. I should have realized it was nonsense deliberately fabricated to provoke responses from gullible people like me.
I hope you won’t mind if I reply in piecemeal fashion. I’m having trouble with my keyboard. No punctuation except for periods and no editing available at the moment.
To be cont
Ten Bears,
Do I mind? I am enjoying every second every word of our conversation, did you check my punctuation or the lack of any or did you notice my laptop’s left shift isn’t working so there were few capiral letters missing. Now I am writing on my phone and have no idea whether this will look right. Please don’t feel gullible here, if there is one thing I adore about WotW it’s that Sue and the rest of our GoT family in here ( if I may dare to call them that way) take perfect care of rare trolls in their posts. I did notice suspicious amount of trolls few days ago in some post and it hadn’t escalate so don’t worry. Vast majority of the people in here is, are great , and while I acknowledge the existance of other sites I mostly avoid them because of many fascist and impolite comments and commenters. P.S. Sue did reddit AMA few days ago and I haven’t seen a mention of it here
Ten Bears,
We have one new post and it’s an appropriate one, see you here hope to see you there also
Tatjana,
…. Continued from above:
2. I too thought about whether Bran, intentionally or unwittingly, fried the Mad King’s brain, causing him to keep repeating “Burn them all!”, similar to the way Bran unintentionally fried young Hodor’s brain so that he was left with a one nonsense-word vocabulary (“Hodor” condensed from “Hold the Door!”).
I don’t think that’s what happened to the Mad King.
I base that on a few assumptions and some “show canon” history:
I think the Bran “slide show” clip of the Mad King growling “Burn them all!” was part of the build-up to Cersei adopting that “nuclear option” solution to her mounting predicaments, using the same hidden caches of wildfire the Mad King would’ve used but for Jaime’s preemptive kingslaying.
If I recall correctly:
– In S1, King Robert (probably with a good buzz on) was in the mood to be regaled with detailed accounts of Barristan S’s and Jaime’s exploits , i.e., their first and best kills. When Robert asked Jaime about the Mad King’s reaction to Jaime plunging a sword into his back, Jaime recounted [paraphrasing]: “He kept on saying what he’d been saying all morning: ‘Burn them all’.”
— The next (and more detailed) narrative came during Jaime’s bathtub confessions to Brienne (S3?), in which he identified all of the locations in the city where the Mad King had hidden caches of wildfire; recalled how Aerys was instructing his pyromancers to ignite them; and confided to Brienne that the prospect of so many innocents being burned to death left him no choice but to break his Kingsguard vows.
— Previously, in Tyrion’s pre-Blackwater consultation with Pyromancer Hallyne (Roy Dotrice) in S2E8 or 9, they discussed the lethal properties of Wildfire and Aerys’ support of the pyromancers’ guild.
— All of these prior “info-dumps” came back into play in S6E9 during Tyrion’s criticism of Dany’s intention to annihilate the Masters’ armies and (re)turn all their cities to dust. Tyrion condemned that scenario as something the Mad King would do. When Dany disputed the relevance of such a hypothetical comparison, Tyrion countered that it was factual: that the Mad King had secret caches of wildfire all over the city and had told Jamie all about it; and that Jamie had told him (Tyrion).
Obviously, this reminder in S6E9 of the existence of the (still) hidden caches of wildfire set up Cersei’s deployment of the Mad King’s wildfire, and her embracing of his solution: “Burn them all!”
So, I figure Bran’s slideshow flashback of the Mad King, plus the slideshow “flash forward” of green wildfire rushing through a tunnel, were included only to foreshadow the “explosive” first 20 minutes of the S6 finale. (Some would say it presages Cersei’s becoming “the Mad Queen”).
Unless I missed something, I’m unaware of any “connection” between Bran and Aerys like Bran had with Hodor. Nor have I noticed anything to suggest Bran had, or will have, a reason to go on a trip to “visit” Aerys.
Finally, with only 13 hours left to wrap up all of the stories and unveil explanations to mysteries, the show is running out of time to throw in new twists. I’ve considered the possibility that imprinting “Burn them all!” onto Aerys’ brain might have something to do with suppressing the wight population, but there’s nothing to suggest the WW were actively “recruiting” when Aerys was around.
Again, I’m so sorry that was so long-winded. Trying to backspace, delete, or edit comments causes typed text to vanish. (I’m old school: I prefer to write with a Bic Mark-it fine point pen on 32-lb, 100 brightness paper. I’m still trying to get used to typing into tiny boxes on devices’ screens, with only a few lines of text visible. But I’ll stop griping about that now.)
Ten Bears,
There you go again, no surprise I’m a scribomaniac myself, last post I wrote on my phone and it was an ”experience”
speaking of Aerys, those flashbacks and repeated ”Burn them all” led me to thinking about WW and their relation to fire . you’re right, they have established Mad King’s madness way before that and I keep thinking about Bran and how he will, probably, be the one who will enable WW to pass beyond , through the Wall or how is it said in English (i know, tinfoil territory) and once he realizes what he had done, maybe somehow someway will be connected to those flashbacks. I guess it leaves me that if and when we see Jack Bender near the set ever again, it will corroborate the fact that tinfoil assumptions could be true
Tatjana,
Reply, Cont.
3. About the Waif/Frey: Yes!!! I had the very same reaction! The Waif definitely stopped in her tracks and had a visible change in her expression when Our Girl got to the name “Walder Frey” , after the Waif asked who was on Arya Stark’s “funny little list.” *
I too figured that the Waif’s oration of her own “backstory” was true – at least the part about being the daughter of a Lord from Westeros. [Wasn’t the challenge posed to Arya to identify which detail of the Waif’s story wasn’t true?]
Coincidentally, I had rewatched that scene a few days ago to listen to the part where the Waif got “A Girl” to admit that Arya Stark had taken The Hound off of her list (then asked if she no longer wanted him dead, and got the admission: “She did and she didn’t.”).
Now that the pompous bully got her own smug mug in the Hall of Faces courtesy of Needle (and apparently, a very blunt face-peeling scalpel), and Walder Frey and his two f–kwit sons are out of the picture thanks to an elegant adaptation of the “Frey Pies” subplot (which I’ve heard is still playing out in the books), I suppose the matter of the Waif’s Frey connection, if any, is moot.
[Misc observation/wishful thinking: I really liked Lord Manderly’s proclamation in S6 finale that “Jon Snow avenged the Red Wedding. He is The White Wolf! The King in the North!”
Still, if there’s someone who should be credited with “avenging the Red Wedding”, I would nominate the person who sliced the throat of the duplicitous lord who engineered and executed the whole massacre of King Robb and the Stark army; killed and carved up the carcasses of the two “moron sons” who sliced Catelyn Stark’s throat and stabbed to death Robb’s pregnant wife and unborn son; and terminated the jackass Frey soldier who boasted of sewing Greywind’s head on Robb’s decapitated corpse.
* Note to Waif: Posthumous congratulations. Looks like You made it onto the Funny Little List yourself.
I guess we now know the answer to Arya’s inquiry (when you suggested the list sounded kind of short):
“What other name would you like a Girl to speak?”
Tatjana,
Somebody must have cloned brain tissue or something , because you brought up two specific subjects that I was contemplating, probably around the same time you were typing.
1. You mentioned Jack Bender and Bran’s time-tripping. I am not in the TV or movie business, but director, but I’d been thinking that people ought to rewatch the last segment of “The Door” from a technical perspective, and appreciate the ways he built up and accelerated tension and emotion, eg, cutting back and forth between young Wyllis in the past and adult Hofor in the preset, all the while with Meera’s near and distant voice imploring Hold the door” …and then everything accelerating to a crescendo in both time periods, until finally winding down with the overhead shot of Wyllis and the cries of “Hold the door” and its contraction to “Hodor.”
2. You noted how there are no absolutely evil or absolutely good characters, even Ned.
Well, that’s an aspect of part of my Arya/Hound predictions and parallels. It’s way too long and convoluted right now. I’ve got to organize it before I can see if it makes sense to bother typing up.
Qurstion for you: Have you ever watched an old Star Trek episode from 1966 called “The Enemy Within”? (Captain Kirk gets split into two “Kirks”, each with different aspect of his personality. )
*(I had intended to write this reply yesterday, but got caught up in the new Maisie W Anti-Leaks post, eg, the many reasons why she’s 100% right , and why people should stop discussing “the leaks”; I’m not done either. )
Stark Raven' Rad,
No, I haven’t read the books (yet).
And I wasn’t aware the Night King had made a peace agreement in ancient times. What did it provide?
Ten Bears,
Forgive me for not writing earlier, I am not done either, will try to write more later
didn’t see that Star Trek episode but I will try to find it
I didn’t watch Lost, but my dear Joanna Robinson of VF wrote great article about Jack Bender episodes, gave me deeper understanding (but not complete),if you want me to I could find you the link (I love all her articles)
Also did you notice that few times Hodor was how is it said referred as sweet giant, he has giant’s blood (i guess not important now)
to be continued
Tatjana,
Not really important to find that old Star Trek episode. It kind of related to your observation about how no character is absolutely bad or absolutely evil, including Ned.
I’m going to summarize it some point once I figure out how to use the edit feature properly, and cut and paste text from other screens.