Hello, loyal Watchers, and welcome back to week 2 of How Can HBO’s Providers Screw Up The Roll-Out of the Final Season of the Biggest Show in the World! This Sunday, fans were treated to an early preview of HCHPSUTROotFSotBSITW, leading to another stellar evening’s entertainment. But was it better than last week’s season premiere? Let’s take a look and decide.
Spoiler Note: This is our book reader’s recap, intended for those who have read the A Song of Ice and Fire series. The post and the comments section may contain spoilers from the novels, whether or not that material has appeared on the show yet. Because no, we are not all Unsullied now. If you have not read the books yet, we encourage you to check out our non-book-reader recap, by Oz of Thrones!
Checking out the credits and hey it’s a Cogman episode! Look out, nerds, ’cause here come the book references, as the people gathered at Winterfell prepare to fight for the living. (Edit: I didn’t know the title of the episode before I wrote this sentence. Well played, Bryan. Well played.)
The episode doesn’t make us wait for the good stuff, AKA where we finished at the end of the season premiere: what happens now that Jaime Lannister has turned up in Winterfell, with Bran Stark staring into his soul and telling him he knows what he did last summer seven seasons ago? The northerners waste no time putting the Kingslayer on trial for all his misdeeds, with Daenerys actually quoting her brother Viserys as if she didn’t straight-up have him murdered for being a dick. Not exactly what you’d call a quality character witness, was he, Dany.
To his credit, Jaime admits Cersei’s massive deception and tries to convince the audience of his own good intentions. Dany is extremely done with Tyrion, and while not telling anyone what Jaime did to him, Bran does take the opportunity to unnerve him by throwing out a S1E1 reference of his own by quoting “The things I do for love.” He may be the Three Eyed Raven, but a part of him is still a snarky teenager. The issue is resolved when Brienne stands for Jaime; that’s enough for Sansa to reverse her firmly fuck-that-guy stance. Practical Jon isn’t going to turn down a living ally, so Dany capitulates while seething and taking out her ire on Tyrion in private. Her Hand suspects he may not hold onto the gig for much longer.
Gendry is down in the forge sweating and while I’m not opposed to lingering shots of sweaty, open-throat-shirted Gendry (and neither is Arya by the looks of it), I’m not sure why because he should be chiseling and shaping dragonglass, not melting it. That’s a nitpick- I realize they still have to make handles and things of that nature- but it looked like they were forging dragonglass at one point and I was honestly confused about the properties of the material. Maybe it’s just me being really distracted by Joe Dempsie. Anyway, I don’t blame Arya for engaging in some intense stare-flirting. And I love the way the music lightens whenever she sees him, it’s a nice subtle touch.
Gendry gives Arya the low-down on their enemy: they’re death, which sounds bad (“really bad”) but we’re in luck- she’s better acquainted with death than anyone in Westeros. He’s suitably impressed by her knife trick and based on his reaction, before the scene ended I was 95% certain they were going to have sex.
In the godswood, Bran waits. (Who rolled him there? How long has it been? Is anyone concerned?) Jaime apologizes for his misdeeds but Bran calls bullshit on that. He reveals that he didn’t tell the others what Jaime did because they need his help in the fight. Jaime wonders what will happen after the fight, but Bran points out, “How do you know there’s an afterwards?”
Hopping over to a more friendly face, Jaime and Tyrion have some brother bonding and honesty time about what a lying ass Cersei is. Tyrion seems to be using this time to accept his death as inevitable at Winterfell, before the battle comes. He recalls his long ago wish to die with a mouth on his cock, bellyful of wine, etc etc. But Jaime is distracted by a tall blonde in the field below. Sorry, Tyrion, your gloom and doom can’t compete with that.
Commanding the men in the yard (and observing a much-improved Pod), Brienne and Jaime chat, without insults! It’s funny, they’ve been apart so long I think sometimes we have a tendency to idealize them and forget that they’re almost always at odds, despite the respect built between them. It’s still hard for Brienne to let down her walls. But he volunteers to fight under her, and she’s touched.
Jorah and Dany confer and he surprisingly pushes her to forgive Tyrion. He admits his past misgivings but sees Tyrion’s gifts, and also sees that she needs to work with someone. And then we see Daenerys heading to meet with Sansa.
The two women find common ground as leaders, with Sansa defending Tyrion as well. She also owns her fear that Jon may be manipulated by Daenerys. The queen points out all she has done for the North when her own goal is in the South- the Iron Throne. So who is being manipulated then? It seems like the two are coming to genuine understanding and warmth for one another, until they arrive at a sticking point: if Daenerys is going to rule the Seven Kingdoms, what does that mean for the North, who insists on remaining independent after this war? The women are back where they started, wary of one another, with very different end goals.
But a visitor has arrived…THEON! Looking sad and wet, but so alive. He declares he’ll fight for Winterfell. Sansa runs and hugs him and I’m a weepy mess. Oh god, he’s going to die, isn’t he?
The peasants of the North are being fed in the courtyard with Davos and Gilly, and people keeping telling them to go to the crypts because the crypts are safe. Has everyone forgotten that crypts are full of dead bodies and skeletons? Stop telling them to go the crypts! You people KNOW what the Night King can do with dead bodies, what are you DOING. We’re gonna see this spunky little girl dead and reanimated next week, aren’t we. CHRIST. Our dead kid quotient is gonna be through the roof this reason.
Tormund, Beric and the Night’s Watch men return from Last Hearth, picking flaming little boy bits from their hair. They report everyone has only “until the sun comes up tomorrow” before the attack. Everyone gets ready for war; this is the big show for real now.
At the team strategy meeting, Bran suggests putting himself out there as bait, because the Night King always goes after the Three Eyed Raven (he has with “many” of them- interesting). Sam makes a lovely speech about death being forgetting and “being forgotten” and then Jon tries to put Bran in the crypt for safety- STOP WITH THE CRYPT, JON.
The bait plan is accepted. Theon volunteers to stay with Bran in the godswood, as penance for taking Winterfell. And I am crying because this kraken is going to die very far from the sea, but I guess he is at peace with that. Bran finally admits to a limit to his knowledge- that which has not been tried, the dragonfire. So that’s the plan, and everyone’s hoping for the best, and really just assuming the worst.
Afterward, Tyrion offers Bran a comforting ear, and it seems to me he may be the only person so far to do so. His family has been struck so much by Bran’s transformation, his oddity, that they can’t grasp what he is, and don’t really want to be around him all that much when he can’t connect with him. Because he’s not really their brother anymore. So it was touching to see Tyrion reach out and simply offer to listen.
Missandei and Grey Worm make touching plans for after the war, to return to her native Naath. Which means he’ll probably die, because there is nothing good in this damned world. Their recurring music is up there as some of the most lovely music Djwadi has composed for the show, and it always makes me ache. They’re such an underrated couple. I hope they live, and escape Westeros.
It absolutely warms the cockles of my Watchers heart to see Sam, Jon and Edd standing for one last watch on a wall- Winterfell but still. (Oh, and Ghost for people who are into that sort of thing.) Another “They’ll be safe down in the crypt” mention. The more they say it, the more it sounds like a dirty lie. Sam defends his fighting abilities (including book-stealing among his street cred is flawless), and we get a shout-out to Pyp and Grenn. I love my Night’s Watch fellas. The shields that guard the realms of men, doing so one more time on this final night.
A fireside chat gang forms, with Tyrion and Jaime initially talking about how much has changed from their simpler but lonelier days. And then they’re joined by friends- Pod and Brienne- by the fire. These outcasts have a crew.
And then Davos, and Tormund come along, with Tormund picking up on the vibe between Jaime and Brienne. Perceiving a romantic competition between himself and Jaime, the wildling postures hilariously with an absurd giant-suckling story that is just what everyone needs when they’re about to face the undead en masse.
Arya and the Hound have a slightly warmer moment on the walls, sharing a drink. She questions his presence in the North, fighting for good. He seems to resent the implication that he’s never fought for anyone but himself before- because he fought for her. He’s got you there, Arya! Beric interrupts the nice moment, and apologizes for the Gendry-kidnapping thing. I honestly expected her to stab him in the eye then. But she didn’t, go figure. The Hound forestalls one of Beric’s trademark velvety-voiced religious lectures by threatening to throw him over the wall.
Arya decides to not spend her possible final moments with two miserable old dudes when she can spend her final moments with one fineass young one. Gendry delivers the custom weapon she ordered and she is pleased with his workmanship, among other things. He reveals his royal bastard heritage and Arya finds out about the close Melisandre encounter, quizzing him on his sexual past. She is persistent, in more ways than one. Arya and Gendry get busy. He sees her scars, but she doesn’t explain. He can take his own pants off.
I am of two minds here. One, I am delighted. Get it, Arya. Get all of it. I love the way he looks at her in awe. Two, I am terrified because when people are happy on Game of Thrones they are generally miserable or dead shortly thereafter.
In less sexy camaraderie times, the fireside chat gang contemplate the irony of fighting for Winterfell when at one time, they all fought the Starks. Brienne’s lack of knighthood comes up and she’s terrible at pretending she doesn’t want it. Jaime gets right to rectifying that and knights Brienne, as a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms.
It’s not raining on my face, I’m fucking crying okay. Remember how everyone mocked and hated Brienne for wanting to play with the boys? Now she is accepted as she is by the people that matter to her. The knighthood is a technicality, but coming from Jaime, it’s a beautiful one that matters to her. So she accepts the title gracefully.
Outside Lyanna Mormont and Jorah have words. He wants her to hide in the crypts. You know what I think by now. She politely tells her cousin where to stick it. But good luck anyway, cuz.
Sam presents Jorah with the Tarly family Valyrian steel sword Heartsbane because it’s a generous gesture, and as Sam wisely notes he can’t do jack shit with this sword anyway. Valyian steel is very handy up against a White walker. Jorah just leveled up, my friends. This might also be a way of alleviating guilt too, because he stole the sword and then his family died. I wonder if Heartsbane now feels exactly like that- literally, “heart’s bane.” He no longer needs to carry it with him.
Tyrion asks for a song at the fireside, and wouldn’t you know it, Pod knows one. It helps that Daniel Portman (Pod) has a great singing voice. As Pod sings a Westeros folk song, we see scenes from people hunkering down for the night. Sam, Gilly and little Sam…Sansa and Theon sharing a meal…Arya looking inscrutably grim as Gendry sleeps next to her…Grey Worm kissing Missandei goodbye…Jorah saddling up, and finally Daenerys finding Jon in the crypts.
“Jenny of Oldstones”
High in the halls of the kings who are gone
Jenny would dance with her ghosts
the ones she had lost
and the ones she had found
and the ones who had loved her the most
the ones who’d been gone for so very long
she couldn’t remember their names
they spun her around on the damp oldstones
spun away all her sorrow and pain
and she never never wanted to leave
never wanted to leave
never wanted to leave
never wanted to leave
never wanted to leave
never wanted to leave…”
The song ends, and we see Jon is ready to tell Daenerys the truth. He points out the statue of Lyanna Stark, and she acknowledges the mixed reviews of Rhaegar, but Jon gives her the true story right away. R+L=J, and Ned’s not the father, Maury. Your boyfriend is your nephew, and a legit heir to the Iron Throne.
Dany smartly points out that having the only people who can back up your story being your brother and your best friend? That’s a little fishy.
Jon, this is where you tell her quickly you don’t want the throne, and that you just want her.
But… the horns are sounding, and it’s time. War has come, and the dead have arrived at Winterfell.
Obligatory rock star version of Jenny’s song!
Stray Thoughts
A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms: Also the title of the book of “Dunk and Egg” stories. George RR Martin has revealed that the extraordinarily tall Dunk is an ancestor of Brienne.
Jenny of Oldstones: Always great to hear a song from the books. Loved the Daniel Portman version, and the Florence cover is interesting too!
Speeches for Sam: No one writes Sam as well as Cogman. The premiere was great for Sam, but so was this one. 2/2 for season 8 so far for John Bradley.
Gendrya: I’m sure some people will be having a heart attack over Arya having a sex scene but she’s 18 on the show (and Maisie Williams in her twenties). They’re a cute couple who care about each other. I’m bored in advance with the inevitable fandom discourse.
We Need To Talk About the Crypts: Did we need to belabor the point THAT much? I get that foreshadowing is a thing. But…still.
Pacing: There was some odd pacing issues in the episode where it felt like it needed breathing room in places early on, but then later on it worked much better.
Overall? 8/10. Some major high points, and more place setting for the big battle to come. Are you all ready?
They might as well have named this episode “Blue balls” instead. I was fully expecting the battle to happen here!
Well, except for Arya that is, nice going girl!
Lovely episode regardless.
So was that NK/Viserion in the preview for 803?
YALL THIS EPISODE WAS DAMN THERE PERFECT AND IS ONE OF THE BEST TABLE SETTING EPISODES THE SHOW HAS EVER HAD.
I couldn’t more pleased going into this horrifying battle. And hopefully it puts people’s complaints away that were fearing things would be too fast-paced. This episode had a play-like essence as described and it was absolutely beautiful. It felt like an episode of season 3 or 4 if that makes sense….
It is so obvious that Dany is going to die. The question is whether Jorah or Jon will do it.
Fantastic episode. I was slightly worried after the first 15 minutes that the episode was going to be slow without a battle, but then the scenes just got better and better.
Good for you, Arya. Sure, it was a bit awkward to watch, but … isn’t it always a bit awkward when you realize people you’ve known since they were kids are well and truly grown up?
The show remembers that there is someone still alive who was at the Tower of Joy right? And his daughter helped Bran? Where are the Reeds anyway, aren’t they Stark bannermen?
The survivors still have to go south and pass by the home of House Reed.
There is still also a few small loose end known as Daario Naharis and Melisandre. I would be very surprised if we don’t see all 3 before the end.
I’ve been going on about how the Night King is going to raise the dead in the Winterfell crypts for YEARS but they somehow managed to say how safe it was going to be in there more times than I’ve gone on about it in one episode.
Also they sent all the women and children down into the crypts, but Jon and Dany are there alone? That made as much sense as forging stone.
But I don’t even like Brienne and I bawled.
Sue, I love your recaps! Maybe because we see many of the same bits and pieces and have similar opinions! Thank you for your love and devotion to the series!.
Were Arya’s scars the ones the Waif gave her? They looked quite extensive and out of place.
The song and video are wonderful.
Thanks for the recap 🙂
Sex scenes in Game of Thrones are fun until they have one with a character who was 11 when the show started. I kept waiting for Chris Hansen to tiptoe into the scene.
I’m already groaning so hard about the crypts. If the Night King can seriously raise bodies that have been decomposing for centuries (bones eventually turn to dust, by the way), what is the limit to his power? His army is effectively every animal that has ever lived in Westeros except the ones that were eaten or burned.
Daenerys actually quoting her brother Viserys as if she didn’t straight-up have him murdered for being a dick.
LOL.
Has everyone forgotten that crypts are full of dead bodies and skeletons?
True, but reanimated dust and bones? Meh. Now if the sculptures came to life, that’d be cool.
The Hound forestalls one of Beric’s trademark velvety-voiced religious lectures by threatening to throw him over the wall.
Have I ever mentioned how much I love this man? I love this man. Glad to have a better little heart to heart with Arya and Houndie.
Sam presents Jorah with the Tarly family Valyrian steel sword Heartsbane.
*cries* I have been expecting Jorah to die for about 5 seasons now. But I still cannot and will not handle it.
Get it, Arya. Get all of it. I love the way he looks at her in awe.
In an episode so full, I think my favourite damn part was that look on his face. Holy hell, Dempsie.
Can we mention the hilarious HBO tweet just really subtly reinforcing ‘Oh hey, so by the way and totally not related, these are some things people should do by the time they’re 18. You know, legal age. Arya things. Who is of age. Cough.’
Theon’s return and his reunion with Sansa was beautiful (not to sound like Bran.) Those 2 have been through hell and have a connection no one else could. Alfie and Sophie were fantastic this episode.
I mentioned somewhere else that I half expected Ghost to be a cardboard cutout and fall over mid-scene. Tormund’s enthusiasm and Edd’s smile made me happy and sad.
I may have gotten a bit mushy with the Jaime/Brienne scene. From the girl who was mocked and humiliated, to being in a room full of respect and friends who acknowledge her for who she is, just made me feel feels.
Was Arya using her lying-game skills to interrogate Gendry on his past sexual encounters? I think she did, lol
Very good episode. I liked 801 slightly more, but this was great too.
Ghost!! Finally!
Awesome song leading into the the last 2 Targs – as per the Ghost of High Heart, they are both descended from Aerys and Rhaella.
Greyworm and Missandei – my heart fears that Missandei will die. Who knew the Northerners were racist?
Arya and Gendry were a wee bit uncomfortable to watch – but it underscores that Arya has grown up since the first season.
Sir Brienne! Yes!!
Sam giving Jorah his family sword!
But… but…. with only 4 episodes left, when are we going to get MaDqUeeNDaENerYs? 😮 They better hurry…..
There certainly is. And if Mel isn’t done yet, then I think we know where Bronn’s quarrel may find its target (in error). And if Mel is still there, then like Berric, the Lord of Light will have his due.
There is also one other significant “loose end”:
The last of the Night’s Watch and the Widling Army were called back to Winterfell from the rest of the NW castles at the wall last episode. They have not yet arrived.
“Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth day, at dawn look to the east.”
I can’t even…I need to watch this episode about twenty more times. It’s going to end up being one of my favorites, I already know.
Loved Jaime “trial” and loved that Sansa trusted Brienne to vouch for him. And you saw how he stood taller when she did? Though I wish she trusted Jon that much.
Jaime and Brienne. And Brienne and Jaime. And then Brienne, Jaime, Tyrion, Davos, Pod and Tormund! I could have watched an entire episode of that conversation around the fire. Not even kidding. I was a mess when he knighted her. It was almost a declaration of love. Almost.
Holy lord Arya. She was quizzing him, taking his history (and we know she can spot a lie) and then she just went there. I’ve been planning their future wedding since they met on their way to NW so… I’m good. 🙂 #dontkillgendry
There is something unexpected but powerful with the Sansa Theon scenes. Because they both had the same torturer? Because he rescued her? I don’t know. I was really surprised, but it was the most vulnerable I’d seen Sansa and I liked it. I REALLY wish she’d seen Sandor though, because they did have some very important moments together at KL and he looked very lonely up there when Arya went to sit with him. I loved that scene too.
I wish I knew what Bran told Tyrion-but sticking around to get all the info is the most Tyrion thing he’s done in a while. I think his problem is he’s been without a book for so long. At least, I hope so.
I think I cried six times during this episode. It might be a record. It feels like goodbye, which means they did it exactly right.
And now I’m going to freak out because I DID NOT KNOW THEY HAD THAT MANY WHITE WALKERS. Clearly someone other than Craster has been donating their male babies all this time.
I could keep going. Jorah with Heartsbane. Edd, Sam and Jon at the wall one last time.
The music playing when Davos saw that girl with the scarred face was Shireen’s song! “I know I know” *sob*
My only problems were
1. Where’s Varys? Why didn’t he say anything? Does that seem weird to anyone else?
2. Ghost off in the corner looking not that large and no one acknowledging him. It’s been so long since we’ve seen him, I really wish he was at least hanging out with Bran or something when we keep finding him alone in a corner or at the weirwood. Why do they hate Ghost?!
Other than that I’m going to be listening to Pod sing over and over again (that song about Jenny of Oldstones!!) while I cry and hope that some of my favorites survive what’s coming.
Friggin loved it, gonna rewatch it then post tomorrow.
…
Much death to come….fuckin A
She has aleady showed many signs of being mad.
Now Jorah has a sword called Heartsbane…. and the theory has always been that either Jon or Jorah would stab her in the heart and ignite the sword.
But the biggest clue that Dany’s story isn’t happy has always been Emilia. During many of the interviews for Season 8 she has been horrible at hiding Dany’s fate. She has seemed sad on multiple occassions while talking about where the season is going.
I find the scars on both Jon and Arya (connected by Needle) quite interesting. They should stand next to each other and see if their lines and points form a mystical figure. Given all their shared violence and “death” experiences, I like that their direwolves are still alive. Omnipotent Light and Death guide them.
After Arya killed her 100th person, I stopped worrying about her growing up.
I think this was a good episode for Tyrion
He has now hit rock bottom with being too clever for his own cleverness, but Jorah gave him new life. I think he’s reached a turning point and will now start to work his way back up. Perhaps he needed a good dose of humility but I loved it when Jorah of all people came to his defense with Dany.
Well I loved the Arya left the grumpy old men and went for Gendry. But now that they’ve done the deed, I have a feeling Gendry’s days are very numbered. Story wise Gendry really isn’t needed as a blacksmith anymore since he’s already done his Dragonglass magic. I don’t see Arya ever settling down. “That’s not her”
Dany made a good point that Jon’s best friend and brother were the only ones with the proof. It was a bit like Cersei tearing up Robert’s piece of paper in front of Ned. But still I think Dany will accept it after she realizes why the dragons like Jon
Leuf,
The crypts are huge and multilayered
What is crazy to think is that not one scene from the trailers is from past Episode 3. We really have no clue what is going to happen.
Steel_Wind,
Ride out with me. Ride out and meet them.
I’m getting ready to watch it a second time, so for now I’ll just say… 9.75/10. 😊 I really enjoyed it!
I’m trying to puzzle out how in the world AFTER the battle is going to play out. If they kill the Others, their Walkers fall. But surely the last three episodes won’t be NK/Others free? And how many can truly ride ahead and beat them to Kings Landing? What would that caravan even look like?
Loved this episode. But couldn’t look when Arya needled Gendry….
The Bastard,
I do remember reading something from her saying she couldn’t believe that THAT was how Dany was going to end up trading in everyone’s mouth (not an actual quote), like she’d done something horrific.
Technically Gendry was the one with the needle. Or a war hammer….
Ser Brienne of Tarth!!!
I can’t even… I’m crying.
Waiting to see what happens with Dany.
She was happy with Sansa till Sansa asks what about the north and she goes ice cold.
Jon tells of his parentage and her only thought is that he’s next in line.
But…who knows after episode 3….deaths are coming. It is known.
Oh I think we hit Chapter One with “Today I found out I am NOT the rightful Queen of (titles, titles.) He’d better hope he dies in the battle.”
One of the best episodes of the show. The most beautifully written, for me, I’m pretty sure.
I loved the episode..
It reminded me of the earlier seasons that I used to love so much..
Jamie’s answer to the court about how he was at War and how all he did for his family..I do hope Sam listened to that ..
What about North…
Well
Now that the Dragon has returned the solution present itself..
Sansa always wanted to be queen but I guess now she thinks that she can’t be Queen of KL and does not want to go back south after all the sad things she had faced..so she settles just for being Queen of the North…
It’s just a good episode and I wanted to join the team near the fireplace…
So It was confirmed that NK is after Bran and he is the target..
I do hope a great battle in the Godswood with NK and Dany which resemble the battle above God’s eye with Daemon and Aemond Targaryen..
Iam prepared for dany dying and if she does I hope she goes in a style..
For anyone who doesnt know about God’s eye battle ..here is the summary
Amazing episode, shows the reason I love this show so much – the moments, the dialogue, the characters, the acting all come together to move me to laughter and tears
Loved the knighting of Brienne, and her finally showing off her beautiful smile. Loved the idea of all these little set moments in a play, and the bits of business that are necessary before the action begins. Really quite perfect Almost afraid of next episode…..I’ll watch with my eyes closed I think….anyway, well done, D&D
Where is Ten Bears anyway …I was looking for his reaction on Arya scene…
I do hope he is ok ..
The two things that made me slightly disappointed in this episode is
1) jorah getting a valyrian steel sword..
It was dany who promised him a great sword and it would have been lovely we had a scene where dany present him with a great sword like they did with the jamie knighting Brienne..But the show didn’t have dany promise him it was only in the books..
Similarly dany talking about Rhaegar raping lyanna..dany is the only child in the books that does not think Rhaegar raped lyanna and she apart from everyone has more visions about how he loved lyanna than anyone else ..seeking dany say it made me slightly angry because it’s cogman’s episode who keeps close with the books.
As I’ve mentioned already a great deal this season, I have a different take on the stone kings in the crypts. The books foreshadowed them being alive very heavily in Book 1, and I think that this may go with the need for there to always be a Stark in Winterfell (also heavy in Book 1) since the kings told Jon in his dream that he wasn’t a Stark. Everyone in the North knows to burn dead bodies, especially Old Nan and the Starks, so there must be a special exception to the Kings of Winter and their direwolves in the crypts.
Here are the lovely book quotes from a post I did years ago.
Those longswords could be useful, too.
Robb and Jon lure Arya, Bran, and Sansa into the crypts to scare the piss out of them, and Robb says:
Bran and Rickon share a portentous dream of their father in the Winterfell crypts just before news of Ned’s death reaches Winterfell.
Ned describes a crypts dream, as well.
Half a dozen or so times, George mentions a recurring dream of Jon’s: He’s running through Winterfell, desperately searching for someone but finding no one, not even the ravens. Heading to the crypts, then, he becomes deathly afraid.
What Brienne wanted the most was to be a knight. So when she tried to slough it off it was obvious Jaime was going to call her out on it. Beautiful moment.
I thought Howland Reed would show up at the end but instead it was the WW. Not sure why they didn’t do more with that character.
Yes, but the newest ones are at the top and that’s the only part we’ve ever seen. There would surely be activity at the top level.
Thanks Sue! Very emotional episode kind of like saying goodbye to old friends that we’ve come to know and love for seven years. I can’t see the long night descending upon Westeros. I truly believe that Bran’s ruse will work and courage and ingenuity and the will of humanity to survive will triumph over the specter of soulless death. Go Ary, Brienne, Sansa, Jon, Dany, Jorah, Tyrion, Theon, Jamie, Davos, Sam, Greyworm, Missandei, Sandor, Beric, Tormund, Edd, Gilly, Pod and of course Ghost! May the seven be with you and the lord of light shine upon you…
,
OMFG…..I’ve been watching for years and never have I teared up until the Sansa Theon seon scene wow. I also had chills, literally chills this episode…..
“Gendry delivers the custom weapon she ordered and she is pleased with his workmanship.”
Fnar.
Ginevra,
All of this. Yeah. Not sure why we think the crypts are a good idea to be honest. Jon isn’t really thinking this through. Also, does he know what Theon does? About the escape tunnels? Does Bran?
You notice Bran isn’t hanging out in the crypts. Just saying.
Very nervous about this plan.
Which main characters will be killed in Episode 3…. only to be back in Episode 4 as part of the army of the dead?
Likely my favourite episode ever. Dialogue that was as good as anything we’ve had before (miles ahead of 8×01); phenomenal acting from everyone, but especially Nikolaj and Gwendoline; and three magnificent Jaime-Brienne scenes, two of which moved me to tears. I’ve never called myself a shipper, but I love seeing Jaime and Brienne together. Sansa meeting Theon again wasn’t bad either.
10/10
So, if somehow Grey Worm and Missandei live through everything along with many Unsullied, do we have a new story of them going to Naath and being crowned king and queen themselves there…? 😊
In an episode I generally thought was successful, this was actually one of the weaker bits for me. Much as Bradley (a terrific actor, increasingly I think he may be the stealth highlight of the ensemble as presently constituted) gives his best at selling it, trying to claim that the Three-Eyed Raven is some sort of crucial cultural memory really doesn’t make any sense. Basically nobody on Planetos even knows he exists, nor has any relation to him. If he died, in isolation, nobody would notice or care.
And it’s unnecessary as an additional explanation, because the Three-Eyed Raven is already established as a rival magical entity who stands up to the Night King. There’s already plenty of reason for him to be a target.
I do wonder, though, if this will at all give pause to various speculations that there’s some huge twist coming about the Night King’s motivations.
Brienne being knighted was the highlight of the episode, easily. I also liked all of Jorah’s scenes that quite blatantly exist to make you feel sad when he dies next week; of the passel of doomed supporting characters given sudden prominence this week (see also, Podrick, who had the most lines he’s had since, what, Season 5?), he’s the doomed-iest of them all.
Tracy Carnley-McLain,
Take a look at the director’s of the upcoming episodes…its pretty obvious what’s going to happen for the rest of the season…
why does everyone need to be a king/queen? I think they would be happier not having all the headache of ruling… hasn’t that been the this show… being in charge is for the fools who think that being on top is what is most important – but it rarely makes them happy. Better to have a life and love.
i can’t believe that there are people actually complaining that this episode was boring. How did the past trough season 1 or 3? This was one of the most beautiful episodes from the show. The pacing, the acting, the emotions, even the fu**ing lighting. Everything. If all you’re looking is action, blood, fire, dragons, etc… then you certainly choose the wrong show. Or at least, episode, to tune in.
Pigeon,
Sophie and Alfie exchanging meaningful looks just about made my heart jump for joy. I loved them in this episode as well.
Loved Arya with the Hound and with Gendry. It felt like pure fan service and I was so happy for it haha! Brienne’s big moment was so emotional! So proud of her. Such happy moments in this episode… just waiting for the heartbreak to happen… you know there will be some. ^^;
I looooooved all the fan service in this episode. Now that so many relationship loose ends have been tied up, they can all rest in peace when they die (then again, maybe not…)
I found it interesting how Dany was one-upped by the Northerners at every turn in this episode. Even when Theon turned up, he came to defend Winterfell, not ‘his queen’. I can only imagine how this might be stoking the flames of her righteous ruler anger.
It’s been two hours since watching s8e2 and I’m at a loss for words, was going to write something then my thoughts drifted to Florence & the Machine’s cover for Jenny’s Song and I’m still speechless. Last time something affected me this way was my mother’s onward journey and the memories that flooded in. Bravo to Bryan, David, the production crew and especially the actors. I don’t think I can emotionally handle a rewatch atm.
Edward,
I agree, this is one of my favorite episodes ever. It was near perfection for me. Last week had some problems, this week was flat out excellent.
Jack Bauer 24,
Wait until next Sunday and you’ll find out!
Great recap Sue!
And great episode, can’t wait to watch it again tomorrow.
I love Sansa when she’s not channeling Cersei!
Loved Jorah’s scenes until it hit me they felt like closure 😭. I’m not ready! I realize the show still has a lot of characters by tv standards, but it’s not enough – I don’t want any of these to die!
Where the f was Varys??? It could have made sense for him to be in the fireside group, no? So was he catching Zs or ???
Ghost sighting was great…but with no Jon interaction, only seemed to emphasize his lack of importance in these later seasons 😞
RG,
I legit cried during the Davos/burned girl scene.
Ivan,
Agreed. This was one of my favorite episodes for the entire series. Beautifully done.
It’s interesting that the song is about Jon and Dany but they were not present in the montage..And all those who had appeared in the montage had the whole it’s the last day kind of the thing..
I think only Jon, Dany and Bran are the only one who didn’t have this last day kind of the thing…
So it’s 12 WW generals in the front…
How many Valyrian Steel swords we have in our side..
Jamie,Brienne,Jorah and Arya…do tell if I forgot any other..
That leaves tormund, sandor, Berric and greyworm…
I guess we can add Edd and Gendry to the list ..
It makes total of 10..still 2 needed..
Let’s add jon to the list and in the ground..i say he can handle 2 of them easily..
Isn’t there more then 12? There’s a whole bunch of the army off to the left out of focus so hard to see.
This is my biggest question, too. The show cold-opened its pilot with an ice demon beheading a guy and arranging body parts into ritual symbols just to send a message. They’ve spent the past two offseasons hyping up that the “Great War” is here, and it’s the only war that matters. It can’t seriously last a single episode and then it’s off to deal with Cersei and Daenerys turning mad when she learns someone else is ahead of her in the line of succession. If that’s the end, what was the point of having magic in this show at all? They could have just made it pure dynastic wars without teasing that there was a much larger world and a much larger war playing out in the background. Jon, Davos, and all them speechifying about how they need to band together or nothing else matters. After all that, I almost hope they actually lose, and the dead promptly march south and destroy Cersei, too. At least stay true to the basic premise that mankind is doomed if they can’t put aside their petty squabbles. Don’t end the show by defeating the dead in spite of still being split into factions, and then promptly return to the petty squabbles.
Jack Bauer 24,
I was talking about those who are like generals to NK …there was 12 of them when we had that scene of NK turning the baby in the heart of the winter..
Iam sure there are lots of them though.. we had already seen Sam and jon kill them before..
There are a ridiculous amount. I always thought 12. Okay 12. that’s doable. We can beat them. Then I saw that line of white walkers that went offscreen and almost had a heart attack.
They have armor and a plan, maybe they have a military hierarchy too?
Like there’s always 3 generals on horseback near the Night King (I notice because of the whole ominous four horsemen thing). When they make a new baby white walker there are 12 adult white walkers observing the ritual.
When they go to war there are 100?!
Man I hope they have enough dragonglass.
I feel like an idiot for not knowing there were that many.
I think they’re setting up Dany to eventually have to choose between Love and the Throne. I don’t think she’ll get to have both. And it will make a powerful ending in seeing what the character ends of choosing.
I just managed to see it due to social events. Outstanding episode.
Outstanding performances from everyone …including Emilia. NCW is firing on all cylinders – top form! I hope we see more of him! Even Tyrion was better…
Well, I hope as many as possible survive. But I suppose they could all be dead soon. They made sure that we will sorely miss anyone that we lose.
All the mention of the crypts and the foreshadowing and all I hear is Micheal Jackson’s Thriller playing in the background.
There’s more than 12. Craster alone gave them 99 sons. We’ve seen three of them killed: one by Sam outside the cabin, one by Jon at Hardhome, and one by Meera in the weirwood cave. We have no clue how many total there are.
I would think so. We know there are MANY of them, 99 just from Craster alone. Of course, some have died. But the NK probably didn’t leave any behind for this.
Tryptych,
This is so wrong yet so right.
Ivan,
Pretty sure I set a record for number of times I teared up during an episode…and possibly number of lols as well!
viki,
I don’t think they need to be or should be. It was just a passing thought that I wrote down as I was rewatching that scene… How Missandei says the people of Naath can’t protect themselves… Well, if she shows up with Grey Worm and an army to protect them I just wondered where that would place them in the society.
I know I’ve already raved about this episode, but I can’t get over how happy I am that Brienne got such a spotlight.
When she stood up for Jaime and told them how he’d lost his hand.
When she basically said, “Wtf are you doing?” Since he was being so nice to her
When he stared at her the way he stared at the Sapphire Isle.
Her proud smile for Pod, and that entire fireside scene, including Tormund’s amazing story and her expression after.
I think I’ve mentioned a few dozen times that she’s one of my favorites in book and show. Since Kissed by Fire (and season 3) we haven’t had such fantastic Jaime and Brienne dialogue. Also I totally got the two men vying for her attention scene I dreamed of. Just perfection.
He’s always had a soft spot for cripples, bastards and broken things. That being said, yes I completely agree it’s amazing no one tried to reach out to Bran and that the 3EyedRaven opened up to Tyrion.
I understand that Jon was too busy and he’s been home for just a bit, Arya has become an introverted assassin that doesn’t exactly exude warmth and compassion. She has her own messed up stuff to deal with and has adopted a very keep to yourself strategy. And Sansa probably is completely creeped out by Bran remembering her wedding with Ramsay that brought her so much pain. Honestly the Starks are NOT in a good place emotionally and mentally if you look at them objectively… one can only hope of them healing at some point enough to open up to one another. Even Sansa and Arya haven’t yet shared their horrible experiences. They left it last season at “I’m sure you have a terrible journey that I don’t think I could have survived myself, maybe share them sometime in the future” stage.
It also makes me think Tyrion is definitely going to survive. Because somehow he’d be the one to know things that Bran may have shared(?). I just don’t know.
Hot damn, Bryan. Your final episode may be your best episode. This is an easy 10 for me and my favorite episode since… heck, “The Winds of Winter,” I think.
So much emotion. So much beauty. The outcast scenes by the fire… Arya and Gendry… Arya and The Hound and Beric… Daenerys and Sansa… Jon and Daenerys… Jorah and Sam… Jaime and Bran… Tyrion and Jaime… Brienne and Jaime… Tormund tackling Jon…
This is how you enter an endgame, friends.
A quickie review from me, but what a fantastic episode! Such a great setup for next week’s.. well, massacre.
Standouts for me are clearly Jaime knighting Brienne (that brought tears to my eyes), and Arya and Gendry love scene. The music and acting by NCW and Gwen in that scene was perfection. One of the best in the series! And I just can’t with Arya and Gendry. I at most expected a kiss between them, but wow.. That Gendry is one lucky bastard! 😀
LadyMelisandre,
Yeah, we don’t really know how many there are. On the show we’ve only seen the sillouettes of a dozen, the NK, plus one delivering a baby together at one time. A few have been destroyed… There should be many more but we won’t know until next week how many they want to have on the show.
What bugs me about that, because it’s obvious to everyone that she has strong feelings for Jon, is that her very first thought was about the line of royal succession. I mean, your boyfriend tells you he just found out who his real parents are, oh and also he’s your nephew. Iron Throne should be second or third on the list of immediate reactions.
I know she’s focused and I appreciate that, but I think it stunned Jon a little too.
Quinton O’Connor,
Right?!
F’cking loved the episode.
Seems like several of you think Gendry is going to die…I think it’s Arya. Arya is going to try and go after the Knight’s King herself and I don’t think it’s going to work. Someone mentioned…where could Arya go from here…no where. She’s not a lady, she’s not really a Faceless Man…she’s going to die. 🙁
What do you think Sansa is referring to in the 803 preview when she says “The most heroic thing we can do now is look the truth in the face”?
I’m going to be playing Florence + the Machine’s cover of “Jenny of Oldstones” on repeat for the next week – when I’m not rewatching this marvelous episode, that is! Game of Thrones turned me on to that band all the way back in 2012 when their song “Seven Devils” played over the Season 2 trailer. I’m glad that they were able to return to offer us this beautiful rendition.
I sincerely hope that when the Season 8 soundtrack is released, both their version AND Daniel Portman’s version of the song will be included. Both are exceptional.
I’m watching it again, and I almost forgot. One of my favorite scenes? When Edd etc. come into Winterfell, and Jon strides over to say hello to Edd, and Tormund body-check/hugs him. I laughed out loud, twice.
I <3 Tormund.
Nice review, Sue!
Also, this episode did such a damn good job of setting up the devastation to come – and this song/cover/video montage is the awesomely heartbreaking rubbing alcohol in the open wound. What a beautiful, beautiful job they all did.
ThisGirlHasNoName,
YASS! This was so brill.
Dragonbringer,
I started watching the DVR recording while avoiding the “leaks” talk in the esrlier open chat thread.
Gotta say I iiked Arya asking Sandor when he’s ever fought for anyone other than himself, then he looked at her and said “I fought for you.”
I got completely blindsided by ASNAWP’s vigorous seduction of Gendry.
And maybe just maybe supposedly knocked up Dany and purportedly pregnant Cersei were misdirections, and the real baby drama just got underway tonight.
Thanks For The Review, as Much AS i know About Next Episode, There is Going To be Death, And Many of Our Beloved Characters. So: Tormund , Podrick , Beric , Grey Worm , Sorry Guys Brandon Stark , And
Rhaegal Are Going To Die . So Its A Lot To Take.
The problem I have with the reveal to dany is that it should be suspicious if the only witnesses are your brother and best friend..And why I think all this is for the sake of drama is what we know from the books..
Dany is the one who can take the whole love story and entertain the possibility of child between rhaegar and lyanna..
It was stark children who were raised with the idea that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped lyanna not dany..IMO it’s a given that dany is going to choose her family and jon over the throne..
The reaction from dany when she learns bran saw it..Well it could have been avoided if they followed books more closely because it was dany who saw the last word of Rhaegar in HOTU..
My hearing must be getting bad, now seeing the words of the “Jenny of Oldstone” song?
High in the halls of the kings who are gone
Jenny would dance with her ghosts
the ones she had lost
and the ones she had found
and the ones who had loved her the most
I took the second line to be: “Jenny would dance with her GOATS” I thought what a bloody ridiculous and silly song that was LOL 😀
Those Brienne and Jaime scenes added 10 years to my lifespan.
Jared,
I have already listened to it more than 100 times on repeat..
Ten Bears,
Aw good to know.. iam starting to think of the possibility of Arya and gendry on IT myself if both jon and dany didn’t make it
RG,
We’ll see how the topic is addressed more later. She didn’t have much more time than mind-scrambling shock, not much different than Jon’s last week. In her thoughts: Are his brother and friend lying to him to cause a rift and challenge her claim? Everything she’s believed is also being told aren’t true either.
I just don’t know how this works out in the story… As it was, if they survived, it seemed as though Daenerys would have married Jon and they’d rule together. Do/would they love each enough to make it work with roles essentially reversed? I don’t friggin’ know at this point.
But she also saw Aegon fly Rhaegal. That should also be a huge hint along with what Bran and Sam said.
Clob,
Daenerys doesn’t know anything about love. Viserys filled her with hate and fear and revenge. Then he sold her. At best she was Drogo’s pretty pet that he indulged. Then she rules through the fear of her dragons. Did you see the way Dany looked at Sansa and Theon when she ran to embrace him? How jealous she was when Sansa said she trusts Brienne with her life? I think Daenerys is learning that she doesn’t know anything about family and love.
Clob,
We were definitely getting mixed signals this episode. I don’t know either.
Jack Bauer 24,
Not really …she can also think that riding was because she wanted jon to have a ride..she may think without her permission that wluldnt have happened..
That’s not to say dany will realise that eventually and think about it… but iam saying the Dragons reactions to jon can be taken as a reaction that reflects how much dany has feelings for jon..
Speaking about dragons reactions..would it kill them to give a scene with dany jon and ghost…thats one of the things I want to see..
Zombae,
That’s the thing about dany…she was never spoiled by viserys hate..
The very first chapter is proof of that…
I disagree with you that she doesn’t know anything about love..
She very well knows about it and she knows that she is alone and can never have a family and that’s what she is looking for family and love….
I agree with this, but it’s what she always wanted. Before Viserys died, all she wanted was to go home. To have a home. To know what it felt like to be loved. In the books its the red door and lemon tree she remembers from childhood. The only glimmer of home she’d ever known.
Ten Bears,
The seed is strong. LOL
Adam, This is definitely bothering me as well. If I was writing it, this is what I would do…..
And it keeps the threat of the Others alive but weakened until there can be one final showdown between the NK and Jon and/or Dany.
I just can’t see them ending the threat of the Others before they address the problem of Cersei. It makes no sense because of how the story has been framed from the first book/episode.
I respect the hard work of everybody involved in this series, it really is one of best ever. And because all its success I really don’t understand why they rushed things way too much in this season, and specially since they took a lot of time to do it.
Why I say these things? Well in the first episode we saw some things that happened and didn’t get the fair amount of TV time in reactions and explanations from the main characters like:
– The NK now rides Viseryon, and neither Dany, Jon, Jorah, Tyrion and Varys say a word about it when that should be considered a REALLY BIG PROBLEM in their plans since a dead dragon could kill a lot of people and they didn’t expect that at all.
– They also are welcomed with the news that part of the wall was turned down and that the NK with his army is now on their side and not a single reaction or deep discussion about it.
D&D have all the time of the world to make this right, but it seems they have decided just end this thing as fast as possible. I that was very well demonstrated in this second episode, and I’m starting to feel worried about how things will develop from now to the end.
From this second episode there are too many things left in the air, too vague and like “accept it because I say so” like.
1 – Why nobody have asked WTF does Bran know and how he knows those things he tells, and why he can see everything and show them proof about that, specially Dany? We are talking about bringing absolutely all her army here to fight the dead and the NK and just as they arrive there everybody should listen to Bran and follow all what he says without questioning. That alone is disturbing as a viewer. They should have invested at least 5 minutes of Bran talking to Jon, Dany and the clan at least showing some things or telling them some convincing thinks about why they should listen to him.
2- Jon haven’t talked with Bran ABSOLUTELY NOTHING specially about how he knows about who he really is. In fact, Jon really doesn’t know nothing about Bran and what he does now, but Sam tells him about who he really is, mentions Bran and the next obvious thing should be him going to talk with Bran, I was expecting this episode first scene to be exactly that, but nope, nothing. It is like “all the fans already know it, we will not invest in that”. That’s really bad.
3- The truth about Jon’s real identity have not been treated as the big thing it really is. I mean, his is the Song of Ice and Fire, HE IS the Song of Ice and Fire, the true heir and the reason of Robert’s Rebellion, although Robert though Lyanna was raped and taken as hostage, the reason why it all started was because of the relationship between Rhaegar and Lyanna and Jon is the product of that.
4- The part when Jon tells Dany… I don’t know where to begin with that, specially because Jon have not proof at all that is what makes that scene really out of timing, weird, out of place and …empty. And when Dany asks him who told him that he says: Bran. BRAN? WHEN? OFF CAMERA? REALLY? WE AS FANS DESERVE THAT? I think we deserved more than that. The series, the books and GRRM deserved really a lot more than that. That was really vague writing, it was clearly very rushed up. Jon haven’t seen proof of that, not from the books Sam took from the Citadel, not from Bran showing him, and that fact shouldn’t be taken lightly because of all the implications it does have for Jon, for the cause, for everybody. D&D should have invested way more time in that, like half and episode at least. I mean, before Jon could tell Dany he should be really, REALLY SURE about it and we don’t saw him searching for that proof at all. And he tells her that Sam also said it that… And when Dany tells him like “how convenient, your brother and your best friend” he only tells him “It’s the truth. I know.” REALLY???? So, she should just believe him because he says so? She should forget about what she always believed was her destiny, about all she’s been through, because how convenient, he says that his brother and his best friend out of nowhere said to him he is son of her brother Rhaegar and the true heir of The Throne. Poor, poor writing. This part was treated like a bad soap opera.
I know this is a big rant, but I had to say it. Those are the only things I really thing are not well done. Other than that I really like everything else, although too much funny parts with Tormund are getting out of place too because this series have always been very serious (and this is the most serious war ever in the show) with some funny parts but very subtle and very occasional. But in this second episode was too much with Tormund, almost every time he was like a joker.
I love everything else, I really do. I love the show but I also really hate the unsolicited and specially unnecessary rushes. They have a lot of time to do it well. These two episodes should have been 120min each to correctly address those points mentioned because they are really important. The only thing I hope is that these are the only ones with those faults. I’d hate to see this great series end with a bad final season. I really don’t want that.
Will Dragonfire stop NK??
Well the only things that seem to work is Dragonsteel and Dragonglass..
So yeah Dragonfire must surely be able to stop him..
RG,
Right! That’s what she wanted…but doesn’t know how to get it. I see her a a severely broken person.
Dragonbringer,
I disagree. Her little speech about how her brother told her about all the wrongs of the Kingslayer and she believes it. She’s never considered that his version might be wrong. Both felt/feel they have a right to rule for no other reason than their predecessors did. She tried ruling, screwed that up and just bugged off to another place.
Dragonbringer,
I saw a short blooper on Youtube of them filming where Jon slips on the ice and the line he was saying didn’t make it into the last episode but he is saying something like, ‘it’s almost as if the dragon knew where to go’….or was that in the last episode and I missed it? Anyway, I don’t think Dany’s feelings for Jon are enough reason for a dragon to let him ride. According to the lore dragons were very hard to tame and there had to be some kind of affinity between the dragons and the rider. Usually it was valyrian, in this case Targaryan, blood. I think it would be arrogant of Dany to assume that her dragons would just let whoever she wanted to ride them. From what I’ve read of GRRM, dragons make up their own minds.
Maybe the NK will raise the dead; but the crypts have often been suggested to have their own magic. Perhaps the episode will see this narrative flipped, the Kings of Winter rising with their rusting swords to defend Winterfell. The NK is unlikely to ‘die’ next episode, so they need something to cause the unexpected.
Aegon Snow,
I forgive a lot of off screen conversations because I love what was onscreen SO MUCH and I’m just soaking it up while I can.
I do agree that someone should have been a little freaked about the damage a wight dragon could do. Also it’s clear Jon talked to Bran about his mother at some point because he described her bloody birthing bed in detail-Sam did not tell him that. Also also-there has still been no mention of the Sansa/Arya/Bran takedown of LF. Varys could have had lines in this episode if they’d thought about mentioning how his court nemesis met his end.
That said, I’m not unhappy with this season at all so far. Especially this episode. Do I want more? Of course I do. I’d still want more if every episode were a two hour movie.
Aegon Snow,
I love the show too but I actually agree with some of your points, especially the lack of Bran explaining to Jon and/or Dany how he came by his knowledge. However, there was that little scene with Tyrion and Bran tonight. I think, at some point very soon, Dany will tell Tyrion what Jon said, and Tyrion will tell her that it’s the truth because he has heard Bran’s story in detail–that Bran KNOWS stuff that no one could know unless they were seriously powerful. Dany will then have to make the biggest decision of her life. So, yes, it’s rushed. But we will get the linkage…at least I hope. If not, then I’m with you, I will be irritated too.
NK might not even be in 803. He could be headed for KL.
Dame Pasty,
Dragons have their own minds yes..
The situation with dany and previous Targs and valyrians is different because dany hatched not one but three dragons..she was their mother ..no one did that before..
And she has already have them under her control and follow her instructions …
Jack Bauer 24,
Interesting. But I think Bran has kind of nixed that…he feels NK is coming for him. I mean he could be wrong…
Dragonbringer,
I don’t think they are totally under her control. Look how long it took her to be able to control Drogon. I think it was a combination of them feeling how strongly she cared for Jon and his blood. There’s ample evidence in the show, they way Drogon sniffed him and let him touch him, when they first met. They smell his blood. And as I pointed out that line, how would the dragons know to go to the place where Jon hunted with his father as a kid (this is a bit of info from the Inside the Episode part that I think they cut out of the ep itself) without having the ability to read Jon’s mind. Dany wouldn’t have any idea where that place was but the dragon(s) would have sensed it in Jon’s mind. That’s not based on her feelings, that’s a natural affinity with Jon plain and simple.
TormundsWoman,
Whatever humanity remains in the 3ER—whatever he’s chosen to hold on to of “Bran”—surely remembers that Tyrion, completely unbidden and from an inimical family, designed a saddle for him so he could ride again.
That’s what made me love Tyrion.
Even in the books dany is like the only person she can trust completely are the two other riders..
Dany asking jon to ride shows how much trust she has in him..
Is nobody asking how Bran can see things? Or how the NK marked him?
Jack Bauer 24,
I like to think that Tyrion did.
I’ve been saying all week that if Sansa were really smart she’d spend all day huddled up with Bran and getting info on absolutely everyone and everything.
They need intel on Cersei and Qyburn. They probably needed to know weeks ago that Bran had a locator beacon still attached to his arm. Dany could ask him what Tyrion said to Cersei during that conversation they had at KL. Why isn’t someone always with him, just taking notes?
Just hit me while watching again… the casting call for a girl some were guessing as “Martha” (a child of J&D) or even a daughter of Tormund’s must/might have been the scarred girl Davos and Gilly spoke with.
You folks just watch my beloved Cersei and her army arrive to save the day
Speaking of KL, doesn’t look like it will feature in 803. That would mean the first half of the season has around 5 minutes of KL. Wow.
Aegon Snow,
I think the simple answer to this is that we are only seeing a small part of a day, or a couple of days. Obviously a lot has to take place off screen.
I think it was in the making of the last episode that one of the producers (can’t remember if it was Dan or Dave) said about the Jon reveal, that it was tough because the audience already has the information and it would be boring if they had to rehash it all on screen again for Jon this time.
Just because we don’t see something, doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened. I thought it was obvious that Jon and Bran had to have talked, since Sam didn’t give in any details of Lyanna’s death.
I think Dany did make a good point about it being suspicious coming from Bran and Sam, because she doesn’t know either of them. I imagine if they survive, we will get a scene with her and Bran.
Exactly. That is one other thing I left behind in my rant. “He’s coming for me. He marked me.”. Nobody asks how, when, why and specially “So you are the problem…”
I almost missed Ghost! Seriously. I blinked and went, wait, that was a direwolf!
I wouldn’t say the North is racist. They have no race relations. The nobles may’ve seen a person of color. Maybe. Northern lords don’t get out much either. White Harbor would be their best chance to see multicultural merchant crews. The small folk way inland? In this case, never. Which tracks with the real medieval world. People in port towns were more used to multicultural communities, regardless of what they though. Up in the hinterlands, nada. So there is a layer of Otherness at play, but mainly, they are Southernist. The people of color came with the Dragon Queen, and they don’t trust her one bit.
Just a 8/10??? im.sureee you need to watch It AGAIN
This Episode reserves at least a 9, and for me was a 9.6. was an AMAZING EPISODE.
They don’t have to show everything again to us, but man, a simple scene of Jon going with Sam to Bran and simply saying something like “Tell me everything” and Sam putting the book in a table is enough to let us know that he went to seek proof.
But beyond that the most disturbing thing is the fact that Bran gives directions and nobody asks reasons why to follow him, specially Dany and her people. Come on… This is her biggest threat ever and she is like “whatever you guys say”.
We’ve gotten pretty much every reunion except for Sansa/Hound…
I wasn’t looking close enough before to notice that Arya’s new weapon has a dragonglass point on both ends. Arya’s version of Darth Maul.
DARTH ASNAWP!!! 😎
LOL, I did too! But I loved Portman’s voice, goats or ghosts!
There were a few people who guessed “Winterfell” as an episode title. Did anyone guess “A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms” for one?
So you want a 5 minute “reveal” to tell the other characters this?
Aegon Snow,
I understand your point. I think you are highlighting one of the biggest obstacles to adapting books to TV or movies. George doesn’t have budget constraints or time constraints that he has to work around, Dan and Dave do.
Do I wish they could show every conversation that the main characters have, absolutely. I would love to have seen Jon and Bran talk. I would have loved to see almost all the characters tell each other their back stories and answer each other’s questions. But if they did that, we wouldn’t just be talking about an extra 5 minutes, it would be at least a couple of more episodes.
Geez, I just had a wild, dark thought watching the e3 preview again…
Daenerys looks at AeJon and says, “the dead are already here.” On the surface it sounds like just an observation. However, they are looking at each other and she says it… I don’t know… strangely, like with malice rather than fear…
*tinfoil theory*
What if, somehow, some way, Daenerys is or has been the Night King’s “tool” all along or since rising from Drogo’s pyre? Now with everything looking set for the NK’s victory with Daenerys’ help in accomplishing it she shows her true self…
That would be a shitload to swallow but it certainly would be that big twist! I don’t like it one bit so I’ll hope something like this doesn’t happen.
I think she would settle down, gratefully, with her very own bastard blacksmith. But he still has several tasks. Theoretically, he will forge Lightbringer. And logically, he will re-forge Ice from Widow’s Wail and Oathbreaker. Symbolically, that is necessary.
Zombae,
Seems like several of you think Gendry is going to die…I think it’s Arya. Arya is going to try and go after the Knight’s King herself and I don’t think it’s going to work. Someone mentioned…where could Arya go from here…no where. She’s not a lady, she’s not really a Faceless Man…she’s going to die
As you can see from my above reply, the mention was about Gendry, not Arya. “No where”? With a tad of imagination it’s clear Arya can go any number of places. Obviously, west of Westeros, probably leading war refugees west acrosss the sea to a new land, like Queen Nymeria did. Another is married to Gendry and together ruling Storms End or maybe even Winterfell. Or as Warden of the North. If Gendry is either legitimate (there are strong rumours he’s Cersei’s son and thus legit) or legitimised, he would be in line to inherit the throne. Should Jon and Dany + baby choose not to rule, Gendry and Arya could end up as rulers of the Seven Kingdoms.
Aegon Snow,
I think it’s safe to assume a lot of these convos happened off-screen. I think the showrunners made a conscious decision to focus on characters and relationships, versus rehashing everything we – the viewers – have already seen.
Also, I know a lot of people seem to think that Bran can see into the future, but is this proven yet? It’s my understanding that he knows everything that has happened or is happening at the moment. But I don’t know about the future. Perhaps all the other information simply makes his predictions more informed.
Clob,
As much speculation as I’ve read over the years this is something I’ve not seen. She DID sound rather stern in that clip. Her tone, which should probably have been dread, fear, surprise was more angry. I was thinking earlier that Danearys could feel so isolated, manipulated, and overwhelmed that she may just flee the battle for KL and leave them to fight it without her and the dragons but then all of a sudden, after heavy losses maybe, Rhagael finds his way back to Jon,
ThisGirlHasNoName,
Bran can see into the future. There’s a vision of a dragon appearing over King’s Landing that’s never appeared on screen. That still has to play into the plot.
I noticed that tone too! And it was kind of like, “Wow, that was said with a bit of a bite.” Maybe Jon just pissed her off again because he wants to talk about the status of their relationship before they die? Which one of them has to find a new bedroom in Winterfell? 😉
Jon: I was thinking about us and…
Dany: SHUT UP JON. YOU ALREADY HAVE MY CLAIM. THE DEAD ARE ALREADY HERE.
Couldn’t the dragon have been from the last Aegon?
I’m not saying you are wrong. I’m just still unconvinced :).
Adam,
NinaD,
That’s what racism is. You have just defined racism. They are clearly racist. It’s 2019 and it’s weird that there are still people who are saying things like this.
I made a post about how perfect Jenny Of Oldstones was to tie into this episode, but it disappeared.
Anyway, she was married to Prince Duncan Targaryen, who gave up the throne to be with the woman he loved. Duncan was named after Ser Duncan The Tall, the protagonist in the novella ‘A Knight Of The Seven Kingdoms’, who also is rumored to be one of Brienne’s ancestors. One of the reasons Prince Duncan abdicated was because of a prophecy given to him by the Ghost Of High Heart, who told of the looming threat of the White Walkers and how the Prince Who Was Promised would be born of Prince Duncan’s nephew’s(Aerys’) line. Prince Duncan, as well as Ser Duncan, both died in the tragedy of Summerhall, the night Rhaegar was born, and thus the song was written.
Bravo, show! Bravo, Brian Cogman!
Indeed, what happens with the story narrative after next episode? I mean this can’t be the peak?
On the show , and even in the books , there is this running thread by way of the followers of R’hllor , the main proponent being Melisandre of Asshai, various round-the-edge priests and priestesses of Volantis (season 5) , and Kinvara in season 6, all warning of , essentially, The Night King and an invasion that it is going to take more than a battle to decide.
The Kinvara appearance in season 6 drips with all kinds of portent, R’hlor supports Dany…Does that mean military support too? It is stated in season 7 that Melisandre is going to Volantis and will be back. So I guess we will see Volantis soon? All that stuff with Varys explained?
Essos? is Meereen just left hanging? as well as Essos?
Oh I loved that episode, I wanted Jaime and Brienne and they gave it to me, I’m so happy about that, seeing Jaime attempting to be nice was brilliant, Brienne had no idea what to do with it. I teared up when she was knighted, it was so lovely.
A few of these characters are going to die next week, please spare Davos and Brienne! Jaime is safe until KL I think.
I think something just switched off in my brain, because on rewatch I keep having tears run down my cheeks – when Jaime knights Brienne (oh god), when Theon and Sansa meet (oh god), Sam gives Jorah Heartsbane (oh godddd), Lyanna wishes Jorah good luck (😫), Davos talks to the little girl, and when Pod sings that damn song (btw, I vastly prefer Daniel’s version to whoever). I’m gonna go brush my teeth before bed and I’ll probably cry then too. Frick.
Adrianacandle,
She could be talking about the crypts, she could even be talking about Jon himself. She’s been interested in learning the truth behind his resurrection ever since Davos first brought up the subject in 703 and the writers have been sure to keep the fact that he returned from the dead in our minds–his resurrection is still a gun on the wall in some way, nothing in this kind of storytelling is accidental. Dany has seen the wounds that caused his death with her own eyes. It isn’t improbable that she somehow figures that out.
Edd had some Crows with him last week, was that all that was left at Castle Black?
I thought all at Castle Black were coming or already at Winterfell?
ThisGirlHasNoName,
That may be, but I remember someone in the behind the episode (from last season) tease a moment where the painting room in King’s landing would be utilized since it has the huge opening above it. And judging from the NK having a dragon, it’s entirely possible that it’s a scene from the future. Or it’s maybe Dany or Jon trying to bring Cersei into submission. We’ll see.
Pigeon,
Same! It goes to show, how little I care about the Jon and Dany relationship, Jon and Dany who? I care about the politics, but as a relationship, it pales in comparison to the others. They are both better with their own friends from earlier seasons.
Yeah, she is not happy. After seeing the trailer, I thought maybe he was trying to keep her from flying out on Drogon into the fray, and maybe she is determined about that. But….we just don’t know, right?
I honestly don’t think I can watch the next episodes before I know who dies. I’ve always been a “read the last page first” person, because my heart needs to be prepared. Heh.
Azor Asshai,
I agree! I was just being facetious in that comment 😉
Great review, and such a great episode!!
And Jorah, you really deserve this sword, as much as Brienne deserved this knighthood: you nailed it for us, and for his own sake – Tyrion’s much more of an average captain as he thinks, much more of an average Hand, but “he knows things”, because he learns things. So relevant to have Sam compare Bran to the largest library in the world, and then Tyrion going straight to talk with Bran. Sam/Tyrion/Bran, we’ve really got the best Research Team in the world. Not just the Citadel-ROM-back-up-kind, retaining only the “doubt everything” part of sciences. The creative kind. The muscle team is ready, the brain team is ready too. We wish you good fortune… (*sigh*)
I guess I am in the minority because overall I liked premiere more though this episode did have many great moments towards the end. One thing I really don’t like is that it seems they are going to let Lyanna Mormont fight in the battle. That’s ridiculous. They are taking the cool “kick ass” little girl gimmick way too far if we actually see her fighting in the battle.
I made quite a long post but lost it in cyberspace. I agree with someone upthread that it was implied in the books that the Kings of Winter in the crypts might be capable of rising if they were needed. I was glad to see Ghost.
I wonder if Nymeria’s pack will play any part in the story? Will Jaime give Tyrion the Tysha reveal before he dies (if Jaime is the Valonqar).
Oh myyy gaaahhhh! So I just finished the episode because I’m in the UK and there’s no way I’m staying up until 2am. Morning person all the way! And since I only have 2 social media accounts (neither of which are Twitter or FB), it was easy to avoid spoilers.
Missandei and Grey Worm make touching plans for after the war, to return to her native Naath. Which means he’ll probably die, because there is nothing good in this damned world.
Honestly, for every character that had a heartwarming interaction this episode, I expect to die the next. I’m really not optimistic ever since the actors talked about the table read and each dying one after the other lol. Let’s see Theon, Greyworm, Jorah, Brienne + Jaime, Edd, Tormund, Beric, Sandor …. those are who I expect to die next week. However, I wonder if there will be a moment for Jaime to sacrifice himself for Brienne (thinking about that clip in the trailer when he yells while watching Brienne fight).
Brienne being knighted by Jaime was EVERYTHING!!! Such a fabulous scene. And Tormund being the first to clap – hahahaha perfect!
I loved Dany and Sansa’s bonding before it was ruined when the issue of Northern independence was brought up. I did guess the clip of Dany and Jon in the crypts would be the moment he told her – Saved by the horn blasts! Also, I’m still upset there was no public absolution for Jaime. I wanted positive recognition that his “kingslaying” was maybe not so bad. But alas. Also, some vindication for those of us that discussed that the NK was most likely after Bran – vindication!!!
“…because the Night King always goes after the Three Eyed Raven (he has with “many” of them- interesting).”
Remember in the books when Bran is waking up after his fall – he sees other “dreamers” that were impaled on shards ice. I’m assuming there were other attempts to bring about the new 3ER before Bran but were killed. ”
“There was nothing below him not but snow and cold and death, a frozen wasteland where jagged blue-white spires of ice waited to embrace him. They flew at him like spears. He saw the bones of a thousand other dreamers impaled upon their points.” -Bran, AGoT
Adrianacandle,
I think she is referring to Jon himself . The way she says it doesn’t bode well for their relationship at the moment.
Also, not sure if this was already discussed but the trailer for next week showed what I thought was Viserion but when I paused and went frame by frame, it was definitely Dany on the dragon. You could see her white fur coat and a blur of her hair. Perhaps it is just Drogon covered in Snow from behind so high up? Anyways, really looking forward to a dragon fight and being emotionally damaged from character deaths.
JamesL,
I get why you should say that although it would be cool to see Jorah and Lyanna side by side in battle. House Mormont united and extinct by the end. I can’t see either surviving episode 3, much as I hate the idea of Jorah dying.
Some people want this show to be nothing but exposition with some people going “woah that’s crazy Man” in response
RG,
I feel that, since the bathtub scene, every look, word and gesture Jaime has had for Brienne is a declaration of love.
On the previous thread someone (apologies for not remembering who) wrote that they were really afraid for Brienne. I have always been afraid for Jaime, being certain that he is meant to die in her arms, but now I’m really worried for her as well. Yes, I expected, like many other fans, that it would be Brienne the one to write Jaime’s acts of bravery… but I’m not so sure anymore.
So anyone think the NK is flying to KL?
I’ve been saying that since he got a dragon, and he wasn’t shown at the end…
Wouldn’t Cersei get a surprise! And Jon would want use the dragons to save KL and Dany may not. Hmmm. Probably not going to happen.
I loved, loved this episode !! I cried though most of it and completely lost it when Jamie Knighted Brianne… That last moment… the smile on her face and tears in her eyes. Everything was so well done in all of the scenes. I’m going to watch it again…..
I watched it three times before posting the review. Maybe you should watch it again? Or we accept that people have different perceptions.
Seems like I’m in a great minority too.
I’m really disappointed with the episode honestly. All these talks feel forced and super unnatural. The whole episode was about reunions once again.
Bran being hunted for having a history of Westeros in his mind is a let down. Maybe something about to change, but I wouldn’t be so optimistic about it.
The whole storyline of the best claim to the Iron Throne is so out of place. It doesn’t fit there – Daenerys has been through all that shit, and she’s about to be upset for that alone? She got to know Jon Snow, he should not be a threat. I quite understand the point here, but it’s still hugely exaggerated.
The song was beautiful, and the scenes with Theon were cool.
I’ll be relieved if we get off that lightly. What I’m really fearing is having that six-year-old with greyscale burst out of the crypt and save the day.
I was admittedly being facetious in my comment and I’d agree her tone doesn’t bode great things for their relationship but what do you mean that Dany is referring to Jon himself when she says that line?
Perfect episode
Like Jenny on the Oldstones, I was spun around with tears and laughter with this episode, and it seems I never want to leave. So entranced with it, I’m already on my sixth watch; no exaggeration – it’s available at 6:00 where I am, and I’ve watched it once an hour since. That hasn’t happened since maybe Hardhome. There wasn’t even one scene that I felt I wanted to fast-forward through on subsequent watches, either. That’s never happened. To me, every moment, every interaction, rang true and was played to perfection.
Sue, your recap was hilarious and spot-on. “Get it, Arya. Get all of it.” Indeed. And I, too, found myself yelling “stay out of the crypts you idiots!” every time it was mentioned. You do a great job, both with your writing and the monitoring of this site. I’m fearing an emptiness when this show is over not only because of the end of the show, but because I’m going to miss this site and all its participants so much.
Anyway, a few of my favorite lines:
“My name, my real name, is Aegon Targaryon.” Ye gads, I thought he wouldn’t tell her, at least not so soon. But Jon seems actually proud of it, proud of and invested in, being king, or at least knowing the story of his heritage. I think this is the first time he’s actually on board with the events, taking on the full portent of them himself, rather than being elected under protest by Sam or being cajoled by the likes of the Halfhand or such. Dany is definitely NOT on board, Dany has been exceedingly unpleasant, defensive and annoyed with just about everyone and everything that’s happened since she’s been there. Too bad, Dany.
“Samwell Tarly. Slayer of White Walkers. Lover of Ladies. As if we needed any more signs the world was ending.” Oh Edd, fight hard. The reminder that Grenn and Pyp are already gone just makes me want that much more at least one of the old NW crowd to survive Geez, he’s dead, isn’t he? Sad. Damn.
“If that’s true, he’ll never expose himself.” “Yes he will. He’ll come for me. He’s tried before, many times, with many Three-eyed Ravens. … He wants to erase this world, and I am its memory.” It seems to me that’s an acceptable reason for the NK to be on a rampage, wanting to bring a century’s-old grudge to its fruition. Wiping out everything that caused him to become what he became. I’ll be interested in seeing if that’s the whole reason for his movement, or if something even more sinister comes to light.
Shy Lady Dragon,
Yes, I feel afraid for Brianne as well. She just got what she wanted with becoming a Knight. There will be several of our favs that won’t make it. Even with Bran’s comments to Jaime, I have a feeling that he will actually make it. I don’t think dragonfire is the answer though with the NK.
I totally get you. The last time I felt this emotional after an episode was after Hodor’s death. They really do want to soften our hearts before they break them next week, don’t they.
The Shireen song during the Davos / little girl scene made it even more emotional.
Find it difficult to buy the dead-in-the-crypt-rising option. They are just skeletons, obviously : how to recognise a Ned, a Lyanna, etc ? And wht would it bring to see our characters fighting and killing a dead Ned, for example ?? As pointed out, the references to the crypts are far TOO numerous to hint at that horrific scenario, for me. Maybe stupid, but I have always interpreted the crypts references in the past seasons as the place of a secret issue, THE passage – discovered by chance – through which everyone could escape.
Gendry on the throne with Queen Arya – and possibly baby Baratheon/Stark in the oven ? One of my possible endings. But then, it would go so against all of Arya’s asserting that she is everything but a lady, “it’s not me” ; or extreme irony, then.
Dany more and more revealing her true face, with her mad king genes outing more and more since the Tarlys burning episode : she is a bitch, merely obssesed with power, with ambition winning more and more over justice. More and more hints, for me : Sam’s “would she do the same for you?” last week (convinced she would never), her immediately stepping back after being friendly with Sansa when the issue of the North appears, her growing attacks to Tyrion.
Ghost back, YEAAAAH ! Nymeria will follow with her pack.
This song by Pod about being with ghosts is an obvious omen. just like the appearance of Ghost himself. And the crypts. All dead in the end, with the WW ruling Westeros ?? lol
ash,
I really enjoyed the episode, the playlike quality is what I seek most. But those human interactions and coming together can almost be painful when you expect the horror to come. Who knows who will survive and what other misfortunes are in store for them. I’m already sad.
There is an analysis of the inclusion of the song “Jenny of Oldstones” here which makes for interesting reading. It all hearkens back to the book chapter with Arya at High Heart and some information we learn there. I guess this is down to Bryan Cogman.
https://www.polygon.com/game-of-thrones/2019/4/21/18510121/game-of-thrones-jennys-song-full-lyrics-podrick-theory-season-8-episode-2
More and more, I can’t see how they win in episode 3.
I just had a thought… At first i was really confused by the fact that Tormund and Edd managed to get to Winterfell before the NK and they even said they went the long way around, but what if that was the NK plan all along?
He knows how to lay traps , we have already assumed he has the sight and he wanted Dany to come to him last season in order to claim one of her dragons . So he allows Edd and co. to go to Winterfell and alert the living, the living form a plan to kill the NK and use Bran as bait . Then while Jon, Dany , the dragons and their army are occupied with the army outside their gates , the NK goes straight for Bran. We didn’t see the NK at the last scene only his generals…. ( english is not my native language , sorry for the mistakes)
Loved the episode although I agree with some of misgivings as stated by Aegon Snow above. Especially that an Undead Dragon could spoil everyone’s night, and no one is freaking about that.
The main reason I’m posting is to point out that the show runners have unintentionally given the fans a tremendous gift with this episode. They have given us the WINTERFELL RESTORE POINT.
Up to this episode the series has been unquestionably the greatest television series ever made. I’m confident that the the remaining four episodes will continue that standard and we will have a magnificent ending worthy of story telling that has been laid out over the past 10 years. BUT…it might not.
We all have examples of great story telling and adventures that have ended poorly in our own minds, in various TV series (LOST), movies (the whole Alien/Prometheus saga mess), books and video game series (looking at you Mass Effect 3).
As I stated previously, I am confident the show will deliver a fantastic and worthy bitter-sweet ending. There will be a few more plot twists and some (or a lot) of favorite characters will perish along the way.
But if the show delivers an ending that is truly unsatisfying and horrific, I will at least have the comfort of rewriting an ending in my own mind from the WINTERFELL RESTORE POINT.
Any one still think there’s a bait a switch comming? “Bronn!”
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
Well now I’m thinking the actor they cast as Rhaegar can sing and will appear in a later episode serenading Lyanna with jennys song
I though this was the best episode of GOT ever! Beautifully acted and lit, character driven with all the warm, fuzzy, funny moments at the same time giving characters a fond farewell and setting the board for the utter carnage to come next week.
The build up between Arya and Gendry was perfect, although I have to say I struggled with the sex scene. I know, I get that she’s 18 but it’s not easy when you’ve seen her since she was a little girl. That said, I quickly made my peace with it with everything else going in.
My predictions: Pod, Tormund, Beric, Edd, Gendry, Grey worm, Brienne and/or Jaime, and Theon and Bran- in a face off with the NK.
I reckon we’ll see wight Hodor return at that faceoff and that will derail Bran in some way. Other characters will also inevitably be raised from the dead.
As Sue said- who keeps leaving Bran out alone in the cold??!
And I was NOT prepared for the Sansa/Theon chemistry. Any Thansa shippers? 🤷🏼♂️
Wow, everyone is gushing over the episode… am I the only one who is disappointed? The reminiscing scenes were fine, but the one around the fireplace got boring real fast; especially when Tormund told his story for the 3rd time in the show.
I remember a time when conversations in GoT was more intelligent and interesting. And the runtime, again, was just 57 mins. I expected way more in a 6 episode season for which we have waited twice than normal.
And the biggest complain of all I have is how they are treating Ghost: they added him in the corner barely moving, and no one even acknowledge his precence. For 2 episodes filled with reunions HBO could not spare some budget to give us Jon-Ghost reunion? It was obvious that Ghost was not in the script, they just added him as an afterthought from previously rendered footage; if he was in the script Jon would have at least looked at him.
And who the hell asked for Arya sex scene? Its creepy watching when two adults have sex with the mere knowledge that, in the show, are related – but its not creepy to see the 11 year old we once adored having sex? Would you want to see someone you loved and adored since childhood have sex?
And why keep us believing that Jon is interested in the Iron Throne? All you had to do was make him say he is not interested in the iron throne to both Sam in the previous episode and Dany in this one. And where is this new trend of interrupting vital conversations in the most important moment coming from…?
This episode was not worth the wait, and certainly does not live up to GoT standards. This is a 6/10 for me at best.
If anyone became aware of it then they would immediately begin plotting against her…that’s pretty much what exactly what Sam was doing. Winning the the throne has been Dany’s entire life, the only thing that kept her going as she said herself. It’s an enormous deal.
Maybe they become Lord and Lady of Winterfell – although that would leave certain problems when it comes to producing an heir…
Thronetender,
I don’t know, I didn’t interpret Jon as being happy or proud in that scene. He seemed pretty broody and sad still, based on the dialogue (“That’s impossible”/”I wish it were”), his… well, broodiness in that scene, and Bryan Cogman’s remarks:
To me, it played as Jon trying to be as honest as possible with Dany in that scene, including divulging the name he was born with. He seemed pretty sad throughout that episode, except when he was glomped by Tormund (“my little crow!”) before reuniting with Edd again.
Good calls on the coming deaths. Next week’s tears will be so different from this week’s.
They better not have knighted Brienne just to off her, though!
Did Old Nan know what Brynden Rivers knew? Did she try to pass the Three-Eyed Raven knowledge on in perhaps the only form that those who’ve forgotten would remember, as children’s tales of ghosts and grumpkins that would one day prove to be more than tales?
absolutely agree 100% sue. how utterly boring everyone is, regarding this subject. like animal instinct and chemestry has no part to play in the night before you might die. just mind bogglingly drab plebians.
This will truly test her mettle, right? We will find out for certain what the creators intended us to see in her.
Actually, I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the lack of pearl-clutching and sanctimonious humbug about the Arya-Gendry scene – on this board at least.
This was definitely my favourite episode for some time; plenty of character moments building up to next week, the pacing felt less hurried (to me, anyway), Ghost was in it, Sansa and Dany managed to have a respectful conversation as equals without being totally in agreement with each other, everybody got their scene and I got plenty of points in my fantasy league 😛
Every moment between Jaime and Brienne was perfect. Obviously. Their faces when they’re interacting tell the whole story, it’s brilliant acting and an absolute joy to watch. It almost makes up for the fact there’s no way they’re going to be happy ever after…
Also Sam listing stealing library books from the Citadel (and not mentioning that he’d specifically asked for a pardon about that) among his badass credentials was just adorable and I loved it.
Re: who’s moving Bran around… he’s maybe warning into various servants etc and taking himself for a ride. That way theres no arguing about what he wants to go.
Am I the only one who noticed that this episode doesn’t bode well for Dany? Tyrion is remarkably patient with her – I highly doubt he turns on her at this point unless it’s due to her own actions. Dany’s face when Sansa allows Jamie to stay, when Sansa demands independence for the North and when Jon tells Dany his parentage really suggests she’s finally going to snap.
That was exactly what I was thinking while watching the scene. The IT was her only concern, not love, not the possibility that she has a close relative or even that they were intimate with each other. No, only the IT and his higher claim due to being a male heir. Well, even if R+L would have resulted in the birth of a girl, she would have a higher claim then Dany. It is not the first time she showed her none-sideline focus on the IT, but imo the most visible, next to the scene with Sansa. The North has to bend the knee… they all have to bend their knees or they are going to burn.
Jon Snowed,
Oh I also forget to mention Dany when she queries why Theon came North only to see him pledge for House Stark, that really shook her to the core.
I actually wonder if this battle covers more than just a day. The episode is over 80 minutes and about 50 of that is supposed to be the battle. What if we see Winterfell sieged for awhile?
That episode has a great sense of impeding doom. I was missing that last week.
Prediction: Dany is a goner and Brans voice over from the trailer about home is him talking to the night king.
Adam,
bones truns to dust? in what, billions of years?
Jon tells Daenerys who he is… Reborn Azor Ahai on Easter Sunday as Aegon Targaryen.. seconds later Jon and Daenerys stand next to Tyrion… the 3rd head of the Dragon… Jon and Daenerys leave and the camera focuses on Tyrion who looks very similar to how he looks when he watched Jon knock on Daenerys ship cabin door… and the music becomes very dark and evil. In the 1st scene Daenerys says “Tyrion could cut her throat” Game of Thrones hasn’t had a shocking surprise for too long of time.
I think Tyrion will betray Daenerys and Jorah Mormont will see this happen next episode…
I predict
RG,
I have a feeling they are saving the Sandor/Sansa reunion for during the battle. I think he will have some sort of scene of rescuing her while overcoming his fire phobia, perhaps dying in the process. He didn’t seek Arya out to reconnect, and Sansa is the Lady of and not just approachable to anyone on a one on one basis. Plus, he’s not a talker and probably would not know how to voice what to say to her.
Thanks. This could have been my thoughts. While a lot of scenes are really nice, the overall story got a bad hit. The NK is just comi g to kill everyone, to establish a never ending night, trying to kill Bran because he remembers? This is completely bullshit and must be wrong. It was just Sams explanation. Also the storyline is just ignoring a lot important stuff and this is very unsatisfying.
I am really disappointed not having seen any flashback of Bran, maybe to avoid already showing the finally stupid surprise turning the story upside down. Since there is not more book to follow the story has lost a lot depth.
I don’t see the Night King heading to Kings Landing next episode Jack, especially now they’ve made it clear that Bran is his primary target. He may go there in Ep4 however if he doesn’t win the battle at Winterfell.
K. Elly,
Cogman has confirmed in an interview that her only concern is the Iron Throne at that moment and that Jon is taken aback by her reaction. It will be interesting to see where they take this.
As far as the number of WW, harking back to a conversation between Jeor Mormont and Crastor-
Crastor asks Him how many sons he has. Mormont replies he has one. Crastor says, one? I have 99! Do you know any other man that has 99 sons? So I’m thinking there are a significant number of WW minus the few that have been killed by Sam, Jon, and Meera.
I’m fearful for most you’ve listed. The valonqar and Bronn’s quest should keep Jaime alive. Will Clegane Bowl (or at least a needed final confrontation) keep the Hound alive? I would cry and cry and cry to lose Brienne.
kathy,
What if he anticipates this though? He’s also a greenseer, maybe he doesn’t fall into the trap they’ve set for him. Given he likely knew that Dany would bring her dragons to save Jon and company, perhaps he is watching all this unfold as well?
Oh man, I enjoyed that episode much more than the premiere. More character moments, better dialogue, better acting… aside from a few clunky moments it all felt much more natural.
I thought the scene where Brienne was knighted was particularly delightful.
The episode did a great job of setting up the incoming misery p0rn. Previously, I hadn’t thought too much about how it would feel to lose any of these characters or how much that prospect signifies the ending of this great show, but that episode really put my nerves on edge.
Aegon Snow,
You want more explanations and dialogue between characters? Really? It is too much as it is.
It will indeed. She’s coming over as power hungry above all else. She had no reply for Sansa’s Question “What about the North?” Isn’t six kingdoms enough, does she have to have seven?
My biggest surprise was Jon not immediately saying that he wasn’t interested in the crown. It’s been his take up to now and suddenly he’s silent. Was that because he’s taken aback by what Dany’s reaction or because he’s an honourable man and the rightful crown would not be something he would refuse? Interesting times.
I agree the chances of Dany surviving are looking slim but I disagree on Bran’s voice over, I suspect this is him talking to Theon in the Gods Wood in the next episode.
I really don’t like this theory of Jon immediately refusing the crown (mostly started by ardent Dany fans). He’s always been honourable and he won’t simply refuse it, he doesn’t crave power but he does his duty; this is one of the reasons he’s a far more capable ruler than Dany/Cersei. At the very least he will try to find some compromise.
Aegon Snow,
See to me , as viewer of the show, it’s yesterdays news.
Gilly found some part of it in a book, Bran saw it in a vision, we saw the vision, Sam talked to Bran about it, Sam tells it to Jon, Jon tells it to Dani.
I been fed this information as a viewer times and times again.
Maybe they approached this the wrong way – in the end it’s hard to do this very cinematic – but one of the very foundations of GoT is Jon always telling the truth and the Three Eyed Raving being allknowing.
Still its possible for Dani to doubt it. The scene is cut short. But she is on the brink of doom and the very core of her existence has been questioned. By the one and only person she truly loves, her ill-fated lover aka rival to the throne.
Let’s see how she deals with this information. Again: possible for her to doubt it, but this means doubting Jon and everything.
I dont need her to look it up in a book. The show showed me that book already.
Wolfish,
I do love characters who are better than the others and they themselves think they are. That’s why I love the Lannister brothers and the Hound.
Jon Snowed,
Agreed. I’m not around enough to know what fans start what theories. It was just what occurred to me considering Jon had had time to think about his parentage reveal and it’s significance. I expect Jon to do whatever he feels is “right” at the end of the day. After all that’s Jon for you.
First of all: THANK YOU for saying Missandei and Greyworm are an underrated couple. It grinds my gears that the only POC relationship on the show, literally everyone can careless about. Yes folks… Representation matters!!
Sorry. Had to be said. Carry on.
I don’t think Bran has time to just sit and chat with everyone. He is trying to figure everything out so he’s ready, as he spoke with Benjen Even when he is sitting in the Godswood or Winterfell’s courtyard waiting for Jamie he’s thinking. The 3ER’s last lesson to him with Hodor was teaching him something he must know – a skill to defeat the NK imo.
Same. Every actor who has been naked on the show was at one point 11. People grow up. It’s a thing.
I don’t buy her being 18, though. Sansa was 14 at the end of season 3, making Arya 13ish.
There’s absolutely no way that 5 years have passed in seasons 4 through 7. I just don’t buy it.
She should be around 16, realistically.
All of the points I mention are really important for the correct development of the story and to bring every character to the same page and state of mind, for everybody to understand their cause. These are not little things, this are big things. A lot of time have been invested in things way less important like Arya’s completely unnecessary sex scene, the one with Arya, The Hound and Beric was another scene that doesn’t give us anything, the Tormund giant story… I can go on on scenes with absolutely not important lines. I find very ironic that Bran just interrupted the welcome saying “there’s no time for this” and after that sentence everything has been a lot of time for everything, even to sit, drink and talk nonsenses besides a fireplace instead of addressing those important matters.
Two chapters have passed and there’s a lot of things to be resolved, that leads me to think that the NK will let too little to deal with and the disaster will be a major one.
Whine,whine,whine, whining on top whining of whining whine, thanks for remembering me why i don’t bother reading this site anymore and the comments, youtube reactions it is then, at least they are normal people with genuine reactions instead of pretentious people with far too much time on their hands .
All last season people were complaining how we don’t get character driven episodes anymore and when we do, of course whine, you’re more predictable than the show you are callig predictable, good thing the show is ending and i’m not sticking through the spinoff, the toxicity has reached an unbearable level in this fandom .
Jack Nabble,
The whinging you’re currently doing is so loud I couldn’t read the actual statement.
It was a better meet-cute episode than the first one, but 130 minutes are gone and I’m still a very restless viewer.
Ghost was too small.
@Aegon Snow Maybe the reasons they don’t only want to talk about the battle is because this might be the last night they are alive, do you want the characters to spend two episodes with sticks up their ass only thinking about what’s to come worse ? It’s realistic that they want to remember the good times before they are about to get slaughtered but that doesn’t matter to you, you just want to get your nitpicking done so you can feel better about yourself .
Raenerya Wow,very original comment, thanks for proving my point even more though !
While some may be inclined to say this was slow…
I think this was a great episode, one of the best in its run
Because it is basically doing the final tie-up for several characters and rounding things up
So we are top-heavy with character interaction first two eps and I expect we will be top-heavy on action in the next epsiode and perhaps a WW attack on KL
Kristofu (Tormund actor?) gets the John Bradley award this week
And of course Brienne being Knighted was scene of the Episode. As I said in the live chat, it’s not just being Knighted and the recognition there (after all she was in her intro with Renly’s Kingsguard/Rainbow Guard).
For mine it was the fact that as someone long derided and made fun of, she was amonsgt friends who all loved and deeply respected her and so the clapping and cheering of happiness for her was what was touching for me
Well done to Jaimie, he wasn’t his usual “clever” self but nevertheless stood by everything he did as a part of war but with some more humility
Jack Nabble,
You had a point? I missed it, sorry… Remind me?
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
If Arya had a baby, I could see her giving it to Sansa to raise.
Raenerys I’m not surprised because you actually have to have a brain Ms ” can careless”, besides it’s not worth my time repeating what you already proven to be .
I love that idea. That the entire battle of winterfell is a diversion so he can get to something in King’s Landing. Also without him there…. there is no way they can kill the entire army in one blow.
Although, I’m not sure if he can be so far away from his army.
And I think Theon is going to die protecting Bran at some point.
The fact that the Weirwood tree in Winterfell is behind a wall makes me think there is some greater importance to it. In the books, the small water next to it has no bottom that they can find.
Honestly? If the AotD was not fated to be “Best. Army. Ever.” I think it would get easily (re)slaughtered.
Think about it: they are largely mindless and wholly vulnerable to fire. In order to give a command, the White Walkers must be near by, If the WW go down – that takes out hundreds — thousands perhaps — of the wights at once. Which does not matter a damn if the foe is not properly armed, but means if they are facing tens of thousands of obsidian arrowheads, pikes, spears etc — the White Walkers are doomed if they get within 300 yards of the enemy.
The AotD can march without supplies, rest or sleep. Their wounds do not get infected. They can replenish their losses from the dead on the battlefield after the fighting is over. That’s a longterm massive advantage. But in a huge set piece battle – that’s where they are weakest.
The AotD has fear on their side and an undead dragon. Other than that? I think they’d be punked. A smart NK would leave a legion to besiege Winterfell while the rest march south to where the pickings are easy and dragonglass is a weapon that some *other* army has. Then he could actually win.
Whoooo…. let’s turn this discussion into a political issue. Great job!
A show about how lineage matters as a plot point of course is not going to have a lot of diversity. Wouldn’t make logical sense.
The Bastard,
TBH, I was going to add “I don’t mean to make this politcal”. But I thought… Nah, they’re adults. They’ll get it. I guess not!
10/10. Anything less is insanity.
Thank God they came back to form! Way to turn it around from last weeks failure. Very enjoyable and great from start to finish, minus the Sansa 360 (what about the North crap) and Bran still being a robot. Cant wait till next week!
Jon Snowed,
People and circumstances are undermining her at every turn. Everything she fought for is in jeopardy.
She told Sansa that she suspended her own ambitions to come north because she loved Jon, and even acknowledged that it was as if she had been manipulated into doing so. Now her relationship with Jon is in question.
And Jaime states at his trial that Cersei has an army capable of destroying whatever might be left of Dany’s after the battle against the Army of the Dead.
It’s possible that she could lose another dragon and/or people she cares about (Jorah, Grey Worm, Missandei) fighting the White Walkers.
So it certainly feels as if they are building toward Dany facing a climactic choice which will determine her legacy.
This episode was near perfection, a solid 9.5/10 from me. This episode is why I became a fan of GoT. All these character moments, conversations, what is said, what is left unsaid. All with the backdrop of impending doom.
Damn it, Bryan Cogman. You wrote a love letter to GoT and all the characters, made us love them all the more. Just so we’ll all be even more heartbroken after next week’s episode when many of our beloved characters will die. sob.
Early on, the episode sort of resolves a couple of conflicts: Sansa/Dany and Jaime/many others… but with a sting in the tail.
We get some lovely scenes, Davos seeing the little “Shireen replacement” (with a burnt face, not greyscale) and Gilly being in charge and all motherly. Aww…
Some levity. Brienne/Jaime (“You’re not insulting me.” “Do you want me to?” Like some awkward middle schoolers, haha), Tyrion remarking to Jaime how Tywin would spin in his grave. Jon actually smiling, hurrying towards Dolorous Edd… only to be side-tackled by Tormund. HAR. I laughed outloud at that.
With Tormund’s news, everything becomes more sombre, more urgent.
From then onwards, it was all doom for me. Lovely character scenes – one or the other will die next episode. It was so hearbreaking to watch. I’m dreading Ep3 more than I thought possible. Well done, B-Cog and D&D.
What resonates with me the most are the two consummations.
Downstairs, the youngsters get physical. They both know they might die tomorrow. Let’s live a little first. (Callback to Ygritte…) Arya tries to stay firmly in charge but she is showing her humanity, some vulnerability. It was a bit clumsy, adorable, heartbreaking.
Upstairs two adults have a spiritual consummation. “Kneel, Lady Brienne” and then “Arise, Ser Brienne, a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms”. OK, this is when my waterworks started. That look between Brienne and Jaime, the mutual understanding, respect and lov…. And Tormund and other idiots present start clapping and hailing her, ruining her and Jaime’s moment, haha.
There’s so much more in this episode. I loved it, and I hate it because we’ll be all the more devastated after next week’s episode because this week’s has made sure we love all the characters.
It really was! Beautiful! And I totally get the slight weirdness factor around watching Maisie/Arya grow up over the course of the series, but it was such a beautiful realization of their relationship that felt organic and completely earned. I love how Maisie puts it in an interview that it’s Arya connecting with emotions she’s never allowed herself to fully embrace, and is very much part of what’s reconnecting her with her humanity and her roots.
The more I think about it, this is easily one of the best episodes of the series! I can’t stop thinking about some of the more pivotal scenes in it, and the addition of Jenny’s Song was masterful.
I have now changed my thoughts totally on Danny/Jon. I now feel Jon will 100% die leaving a pregnant Danny behind. That whole reveal had a Jon getting to stake his claim but also a goodbye feel. For the future of these people with a Targaryen ruler, it has to be someone who can offer a future for that line or it will dye with Jon. I do not see Jon moving on if Danny dies. Danny with a baby can give it more longevity, specially if twins for we know how well twins get along in these families! …just my thoughts
Dany’s reaction would bug me if you take the Iron Throne to mean her pursuit of power. However, it’s deeper than that. It’s takes hits her entire identity.
I think Emilia explains it well here
That would be one thing if it were true; except it isn’t true.
Up until basically the end of the Season 1, Dany was not focused on “winning the Iron Throne” for the very good reason that the IT was not hers to win.
She grew up “her entire life” believing the Iron Throne was Viserys’, not hers. She simply expected she would marry her brother and bear his children. And if they were lucky and evaded Robert’s assassins, maybe, someday, she might be safe and Viserys might again be King.
She’s been spending Season 2-8 wanting the Iron Throne. The Truth™ is that she spent “most of her life” believing she was merely the heir of a brother with a better claim to the Iron Throne. Now she learns that is still true, except it is her brother’s son with a better claim.
Par for the course, really.
Aegon Snow,
I think you make a lot of good points. Maybe everything happens off screen and all will be explained at the end, but yeah, they needed to do this upfront, they had the time available they could have.
Perhaps they did have a scene or two and they were cut like the one a few seasons ago with Sansa, Arya and LF? if so that was a mistake
Still love it all, but yeah, a few holes here and there
Ghost's Lunch,
As to Jaime knighting Brienne… I think he was somewhat egged on by Tormund’s blatant interest in her (and her blatant uninterest in him). Jaime perhaps feels she’s his. A bit of jealousy there, asserting his claim. Men, haha!
But the deed itself was an act of spiritual love and respect. He gave her her heart’s desire. It was a spiritual consummation, as opposed to the physical consummation we saw right before this one. Both were wonderful.
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
Since the whole Sansa-Theon connection is show-only and the writers have always said they’re following the book endgame (in broad strokes), it can’t really factor into her endgame (setting aside that Theon’s death next week was signaled about as broadly as it could be; the only reason he’s not the most doomed character is because Jorah exists).
It doesn’t take billions of years. Even without turning to dust, the connective tissue is completely gone in only a few years in normal conditions, maybe months if you’re buried in soil rather than a coffin due to worms and such eating it all away. With no connective tissue to hold the bones together, they can’t stand up. Bones can turn to dust in a matter of centuries if there is nothing preserving them like frozen ground or a bog. Winterfell is on a hot spring, so the ground is not frozen. If they completely sealed them in stone, they could see some decent preservation, but they also wouldn’t be able to get out of it. If they’re just buried in soil they can claw their way out of, they’d be long gone. Rickard and Brandon were burned. We should assume Rickon was burned. Ned was being carried around in a box the size of a small chest when Littlefinger brought his remains to Cat. Robb and Cat are in the Riverlands. The only body we can feasibly say maybe isn’t totally decomposed is Lyanna, if they sealed her in a really good tomb with no oxygen for microbes to feed on her.
This is really truly an absurd attitude. The fans deserve endlessly rehashing the same information over and over? We needed MORE scenes of Bran delivering exposition? All this information is stuff we know! We saw the characters get the info even! Jesus christ, there are shows that do 10 year time skips but people want every single bit of information on screen, repeated endlessly
Clob,
Yeah I wondered about this. All this faith tyrion and others have in Dany and then out from our feet come the carpets. Interesting
Im not sure if it has ever been mentioned in the show, but in the first book, Ned thinks about the crypts and how the dead kings are buried with iron swords which are supposed to keep “vengeful spirits” within the crypts.
I’ve only seen a handful of people that are complaining, and I too am wondering what it is they want exactly. As for the majority, it sure looks like that is on the side of “great episode!” So maybe you are getting a little too hot over those few when calling out the entire fanbase…
I keep on trying to catch up on these comments, but then get dragged away by something and when I come back there are just more! I forget how busy it gets during in-season. I will endeavour to read the rest later after kids are in bed and unable to divert my attention.
My thoughts on the episode, which I sadly haven’t been able to rewatch yet, but will get right on that later:
– It blew me away. I think waiting till 2am and the giddiness I feel in the run up makes me more receptive to episodes and I always enjoy them more watching them that way. Last night I was so overwhelmed with good vibes for the episode, but now I’m very wary, as like many have already mentioned, for many of our beloved characters, it felt like a send off, some closure before they join the Night King and his army. My biggest concerns right now are Theon, Jorah, Tormund, Grey Worm, Edd, Jaime, Brienne, Pod and, inexplicably (as I wasn’t too worried about her before), Arya. I don’t think for one minute they’ll kill all those characters in one episode, but I worry about which ones we’ll lose and I truly, genuinely mean it when I saw that I am not at all ready. This week can crawl by at snail’s pace for all I care, I am not ready to see the devastation.
– My favourite scenes were the crew around the fire, particularly the knighting of Brienne and the wonderful camaraderie on display. I also loved Tyrion saying how abhorred Tywin would be to see his son’s dying to save Winterfell and Jaime’s laugh in response. In my wine-hazy giddiness, Tormund’s speech and chugging his beer was a laugh-out-loud highlight; we’ll see how that stands up upon my rewatch. I was hoping for a love scene/confessions of love from Jaime and Brienne, but actually, what they gave us was almost more moving and poignant. Maybe their love will never be spoken of, but in that moment, they showed it to each other.
– I also, oddly (seeing as Jon and Dany are some of my favourites), am glad they were sidelined this episode to give more time to the other storylines. They could have so easily have the big revelation consume all, but what we got was just beautiful and wonderful. That song from Pod and the montage afterwards had me in tears. It was too much to handle at nearly 3am; I wonder if I’ll be able to keep dry eyes tonight…. probably not.
– Loved Sansa this episode (though I’m sad that she won’t likely get a scene with Sandor). After her snarking last week got on my nerves, the character pulled it back this episode and reminded me of why I had so grown to like her pre-season 6. She was strong, courteous, intelligent and hard as nails when she was pushing Dany to tell her what would become of the north. Her reunion with Theon also brought tears to my eyes and was really well played by Sophie Turner – her face when the camera panned on her as she watched Theon – perfect! I love those two as a pair, but they’re obviously about to be torn apart with Theon most likely being one of the obvious casualties of next episode.
– Hey Ghost! Nice to see you, briefly! Jon did nod to him, but that really was it – my only minor quibble of the episode. I’d love to see Ghost and Rhaegar sizing each other up!
– I wasn’t that creeped out by the Arya/Gendry sex scene. It’s been a long time since I viewed her as a child and she has seemed like a woman the past few seasons. It felt like a nice evolution for her character – moving away from her stone-cold exterior faceless man act into being warmer and more human. I have bad vibes though now and wonder if she will make it out of the battle. Someone above commented that they thought Arya may try to take out the NK in the Godswood, but then fall victim to him, and I can actually totally see that happening – maybe she is running from him in that trailer sequence. Combat wise I’m not doubting her, but what if the popular theory over him rezzing someone she loves or knows well throws her totally off guard and he injures her in her shock. She can’t focus and instead runs. I can see that happened.
– I’m not worried about the crypts. Mainly because most of those dead kings are just dust now and other’s are totally bone. We haven’t seen any wights that are totally skeletons have we? I thought they tended to have some remaining flesh/sinew/tendons holding them together. It would be a bit of a leap for me to see bundles of bones magically attracting each other and forming a walking skeleton like Pirates of the Caribbean. Rickon might rise, but Ned was a box of bones and is Robb even down there? Lyanna Stark would be bones by now. I don’t know, I just find that a stretch. Maybe tiny Shireen-lookalike will defend them? Or Tyrion, as we know he can fight. I agree with Wimsey that the crypts’ secret tunnels will be the clue to saving most people’s lives and that Winterfell will fully burn. I think the crypts are being foreshadowed for that reason.
– The nights’ watch trio were fantastic as they stood their reminiscing and I adored Sam slipping in that he stole books from the Citadel in his list of reasons why he’s badass.
– Dany’s reaction to Jon’s news seemed about right – first outright denial and then warning him that what he is doing (with his lie) is undermining her authority and he’d better watch it. Shame they got cut short. I’m taking that as a hint they both survive the battle though because that is a conversation that demands a conclusion.
Right, another essay. I am so excited for my rewatch this evening.
Dyanna,
Dyanna,
I think the reason why Jon wouldn’t refuse it –
1) he respects (in theory) the rules. Legitimate succession, etc. If he is indeed the rightful heir to the 7 Kingdoms and was forced – or asked – to take it, he wouldn’t refuse it. He’s never sought power, but he accepted being the Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch and the King in the North.
2) he finally knows who his mother was – that she was someone who loved him until her dying breath. As much as Ned not being his father hurts, his mother and father loved him. They protected him and they both died for it.
Would he turn his back on that? There was a reason he was down there in front of Lyanna’s statue.
Am I the only one who thought that the song was about Arya and the buried people in Winterfell? Couple it with a preview/trailer of Arya running through the crypts and I am worried the signs are clear. For the first time since I started watching GoT, I fear for Arya’s life.
Pigeon,
I also need to know if something terrible is going to happen. Before watching the episode with Shireen being burned, I had read Sue’s recap just to be prepared. This time I won’t have the patience… and I’m aware I will be a mess.
No, I don’t want that, quite absolutely the contrary, it’s not about me feeling better and I’m not whining, I’m just saying that the important things have to be shown because they should be shown. I like the conversations, I’m not asking for the Night King to finally come and see what happens but the opposite, I want everything well written and the proper aura of the great revelations to be reflected in the acting and the scenes in general. I have told I like it everything else but that these chapters should have been longer to address those important matters, I haven’t said this or that is stupid, I have addressed the rushing dialogs and scenes without the proper deep representation, at least as the drama they represent for the characters. If I say that the Arya sex scene was unnecessary or the time around the fireplace was maybe too long is not that they are bad or I don’t like them, is that compared to the importance of the Jon revelations to Dany and the lack of the explanations from Bran about himself those scenes weren’t more important that those.
I love the series, I’ve told that, and so far I like how the things are going, but I can’t help feeling everything is way too much faster that it should go for the sake of ending the thing.
Jack Bauer 24,
I didn’t even come close.
It was interesting I saw the title right after watching when I flipped to hbo go to look for the extras. They had the title in the opening shot of the episode revealed. It was a great title.
I guessed “not today” for episode 3. But I’m guessing it will be something better. The Long Night seems too obvious.
Book readers recognise the wonderful song as “Jenny’s song”. It’s been alluded to in the books but the lyrics have never been given, much less the actual music. Thank you, thank you D&D (and Ramin Djawadi?) for giving us “Jenny’s song”.
Jenny of Oldstones was a smallfolk girl the heir to the Iron Throne Duncan the Small loved, giving up his claim on the IT to marry her. It all ended up tragically, of course.
The montage while Pod is singing the song (hey, now we know why the KL whores didn’t want payment – Pod just sang to them!), the beats, the words with pictures. Song mentiones “name” and we see Theon, Missandei’s and Grey Worm’s kiss “never want to leave” etc. Maybe there’s some meaning for Arya there as well. I don’t think it’s about any specific character, it’s about all of them.
Such a beautiful, haunting song.
Aegon Snow,
But how many times does someone need to discuss Jon’s parentage? we’ve seen Bran’s visions. We got Sam’s talk with Bran. And then we saw Sam tell Jon all he needed to know – his parents loved each other and Lyanna loved him. So he would go to Bran and – what? Bran would say the exact same thing again? We’d see the same visions again?
We all know it’s true. The next step in making it a point that matters is telling Dany, not reconfirming it again and again.
talvikorppi,
I just saw this amazing montage video a minute ago showing the lyrics…
I literally started crying and I don’t cry. It looks like an official HBO video they put together.
If others have mentioned this video already, I apologize, but it’s truly moving.
Sansa must find out in 803. In the preview she says “The most heroic thing we can do now is look the truth in the face”.
I hadn’t thought about your second point but it’s a good one. He’s never known who his mother was and it bothered him wondering if she cared, as he said to Ned in Season 1. Now he knows not only who she was, but also that she cared. I lost my own mother as a baby and knowing how they felt is very important. Jon now has a sense of identity and belonging in a way he didn’t have before. How that manifests itself, if the show goes down that road could make for some surprises.
Tron79,
Well, I guess Sue posted it at the end of the article….Sorry…Well, it was still the most moving thing I’ve seen in quite some time. Seeing the early scenes of Arya doing water dancing and Caitlyn and so many others was really something…
Melanie,
LOL!
Now I will too 😂
There is still a son of Craster alive – I expect drama involving little Sam, Gilly, and the little girl who said she would protect them in the crypts.
Nissa Nissa – increasingly, I think this is Dany. I’m not sure how Jorah fulfills the PTWP prophecy better than Jon does, so Jon probably gets the honor. “Blood of the dragon” is obvs flammable, as we saw when the NK impaled Viserion.
Endgame for Arya – Jaime gets Bronned, she steals his face and deals with Cersei.
Endgame for Gendry – by process of elimination, he’s the only possible heir to the throne.
Random thought for Bran – he wargs a WW, or possibly a wight (Hodor) in an attempt to connect to the WW hive mind.
Why hasn’t AeJon mentioned Aemon to Dany?
Jack Bauer 24,
Yeah my point is any screen time worth it is telling other people, not a Bran Sam Jon circle reaffirming something they all know and we all know
Tron79,
Thank you. It’s soooo beautiful 😍
Am I the only one who thinks they WILL defeat the AotD in the upcoming battle? I expect the losses to be horrific and gutting but I think they somehow win.
Then the last three episodes deal with whatever remains of the Northern alliance and Dani’s once massive army and Cersei, her 20,000 strong mercenary army, and any wildfire still under KL?
I just don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion that the end is about saving the rest of the kingdom from the NK while Cersei bides her time but rather the remaining Targaryen forces against Cersei.
Just my guess.
And I too am obsessed with ‘Jenny of Oldstones’ in all its forms.
Setting aside that tinfoil thing I wrote earlier about Daenerys possibly being the NK’s helper tool all along…
I know there are people that for one reason or another want Daenerys to go full on mad or believe she will. I’m still waiting for her to realize that the throne isn’t what is most important, not what she really wants the most in life. She’s had such a focused mind on it for so long that it’s almost like she can’t fully appreciate anything good and right outside of her tunnel vision.
In certain scenes it appears like she might have gotten something out of what she witnesses. Examples in this episode might be Theon asking Sansa if he can fight for her and Winterfell when he doesn’t have to and/or Sansa totally reversing her stance primarily because of Brienne’s statements. Some of her expressions seem like she’s growing an understanding of the people and their strong sense of duty and honor. Maybe she’d start to realize that these people are worth saving for their lives and not as people to rule… Then they basically flip that switch off with some dialogue soon after that totally negates that thought.
I’ve been thinking of all my feelings on the character as I read the books and how much of a struggle she’s gone through still to the point they’re at post-Meereen fighting pit. The show followed it all fairly closely I think for most of it. None of it has had me thinking that the purpose of all of that main pov character story is leading to her going all nutso and failing to accomplish what she wants. It seems like that would be an awful lot of waste in character building through an entire series. As I wrote above though, I can see her finally figuring out that what she really wants most isn’t the iron throne, but family and true love.
Spoilers below
Jon got thrust into an identity crisis at the end of S8E1 and it looks like the same happened for Dany at the end of S8E2 . He said his real name was Aegon Targaryen, so…..how will the Northerners (and his Stark family) react to that news ? I wonder if Dany will remember her experience in the House of the Undying in Season 2. It seemed to indicate the throne was not her ultimate goal. She also seemed to realize in S7E7 that dragons don’t flourish in King’s Landing. Still crossing my fingers for both of them.
Tyrion’s convo with Jaime about Cersei was interesting. Tyrion seemed to admit that Cersei was more successful in fooling him than she was in fooling Jaime (when he told Jaime that Jaime loved her knowing full well what she was). From the spoilers, it looks like he won’t get killed during episode 3, but his comment about getting wightified and ‘marching to KL ‘ to tear her apart seemed somewhat ominous. Assuming enough of them do survive both the AotD and a possible ambush from Cersei’s army, how vengeful will the survivors be? Will the fact that Cersei is pregnant factor into his decisions?
Bran’s reaction to Jaime was believable to me. He is the three eyed raven and therefore a bit neutral about Jaime’s decision to push him from the Broken Tower, but it seemed a bit of humanBran peaked through when he remarked on what could have been if Jaime had not pushed him (‘I would still be Brandon Stark’). I would REALLY have liked for the show to delve more into the mythology of the three eyed crow and its relation to the NK/AotD. The little glimpse of a timeless struggle between them that Bran hinted at during the War Council was not nearly enough for me.
I do not blame Missandei and GreyWorm at all for wanting to get the hell out of Dodge once the war is over. I almost wanted them to go ahead and skip town after those little girls shunned them. WTF?!
Liked Brienne getting Knighted. Liked the Arya/Gendry and Arya/Hound moments. I didn’t like Arya’s ‘looking foward to seeing this face of death’ comment, especially after her scenes shown in the season trailer. It makes me more nervous about the fates of some of our favorites. Liked Theon coming to fight for Winterfell, although I think he had every right at this point stay with Yara.
Like others, also starting to get nervous about ‘you’ll be safe in the crypts’ type comments. Maybe it has to do with an escape route through the crypts, but even so, why didn’t they burn whatever remains of the dead in the crypts? Even if it’s just bones, the NK has been able to use skeletal remains as soldiers (one even gave Jojen a mortal wound in Season 4). The only counterweight to that is if Melisandre and whoever she could gather (the Fiery Hand?) show up and can raise fire wights….
Loose ends & tinfoil hats:
Bran: They’ve been a bit subtle about it until last night, but I’m kind of glad that he flat out says I’m not Bran anymore, I’m the 3ER. That’s obviously important for our understanding of the character (and the lens through which we see him when we do all of our speculating). I’m curious to see/know if anything comes out of his conversation with Tyrion. It got cut away from. I presume it happened. Seems like it could contain info that would give the impression that Tyrion at least makes it long enough to apply whatever he learned.
Mel: Tin foil alert. If the NK isn’t defeated in the next episode, what about her being a Nissa Nissa archetype? We don’t really get this Azor Ahai/Nissa Nissa story in the tv shows, but Mel obviously still has relevance, mystical power, and is going to die in Westeros.
Preggos: Apparently, Westeros has a near perfect…conversion rate. I get it, the fan base wants some babies. There’s been a lot of “practice”, but who knows if any are going to happen. Not entirely sure if they’ve been foreshadowed, or if they fit at this stage. But hey, what do I know. Maybe there’s a crazy baby boomlet in 9 months like we have when there are blizzards and stuff.
“The dead are already here…”: Could be a few different things. I kind of took it as a continuation of their discussion/argument in the crypt. Dany is having second thoughts about all of this because it calls one of her character’s reasons for being into question. Maybe it’s just an escalation of an argument. Jon: “This seems like it’s all about the IT for you. Nobody is forcing you to stay”. Dany: “The dead are already here”.
A few things about this episode:
I really loved it. It was a quiet night with people we have come to love and though I have a clear favorite, watching last night made me realize that I don’t want any of those people to die. Not even Lord Yohn Royce.
Arya. Regardless of her endless tribulations, here is one of the few female characters that was fortunate enough to be the one to decide who she would bed and how. And best of all, it had nothing to do with political interests. She wanted the experience and was lucky enough that someone she always liked was available. Good for her.
Sansa. Sansa was a true Stark yesterday, she kept her inner Cersei in check. Sansa needs to channel more of Margaery and less of Cersei. Courtersy is your armor, unless you are Arya, Brienne and Asha and can handle yourself on the battlefield. It isn’t even strange that she got so emotional over Theon. He was always a brother to her, perhaps in her eyes more than Jon.
Daenerys. For someone who has always yearned for the feel of family, she has an adverse reaction to actual family. Her first thought goes to the throne? Really? I do think it reveals the one thing that is most valuable to each character. Jon’s reaction was to not believe his father, the most honorable he’s ever known, had lied to him. After all, Ned Stark was the foundation of Jon’s character. Really, no other character venerated and aspired to be like Ned more than Jon. As for Daenerys, her immediate reaction was worry about her claim to the throne. She has become so focused on it, she might lose the big picture. And yes I do fear what she may do to Jon whom she has only known for a couple of months. Viserys was her companion for 16 years (and not always a bad one) and she didn’t even flinch when her husband murder him. I do hope her head clears and she’s able to see that life may be giving her the red door and lemon tree she’s always wanted.
The battle is expected to be the biggest of the series, right? Bad things may happen. There will be blood. Fire and blood.
Stark Raven’ Rad,
I too think Gendry will sit the Throne, either as legit Cersei’s child, or as a legitimized bastard. But Arya won’t be by his side, I think it may be Sansa.
This episode was a terribly moving goodbuy to not just these characters but also the series in some ways. The magnitude of the episode will probably hit us all with full force by end of episode 3. Brienne being knighted by Jamie, the 3 last remaining men of the Night’s Watch atop a wall at Winterfell with Ghost making his debut this season, Theon being welcomed by Sansa, Jenny’s song and how it all ties to Summerhall, Rhaegar, Brienne, Arya and ultimately to Jon’s and Danny’s choices. Just a beautiful episode for a book fan
This episode made me feel for Dany. I’ve always quite liked her, though never a superfan.
So she had the frosty reception in the North. She’s not used to it, she’s used to being a liberator and adored, adulated. And perhaps going all dracarys on dissidents. She’s floundering, trying to get her bearings, grappling with this new situation where dracarys isn’t an option.
She thought she could count on her love’s, Jon’s, support, but he’s also inexplicably giving her the cold shoulder. She’s very alone, her nearest allies seemingly leaning the other way. The Starks have something she never had: a strong, loyal, loving family.
And when she finally finds some family, it couldn’t be more devastating, shattering her identity to the core. She’s not the last Targaryen, not even the rightful claimant to the Iron Throne.
Jon’s problem is probably the aunt/nephew thing (though that isn’t a problem in the southron kingdoms, faith of the Seven realms, as per GRRM’s Fire and Blood book – even in the North, ancient Starks married uncle-niece, etc.). However, Dany jumped to the conclusion that the problem was the IT claim… and then three blasts, AotD incoming.
Suddenly Dany is right back where she started. A princess while a man in her family decides and takes it all. She’s alone, she’s shook to her core. Good.
krupke,
Incoming: Howland and Meera Reed. It would be far too lame for them to hide in the Neck when all the bannerman have been called to WF. Howland is needed to confirm the story of Rhaegar and Lyanna (or to add to it in unexpected ways).
Incoming: Nymeria’s pack
Incoming: The Red Priestesses
Incoming: A known character, since dead and wighted, that Bran wargs to learn about the story of the NK, which we will see through his eyes just like the TOJ and Hodor scene.
In the books, we have Dany’s dream at the Trident of the Others. I believe that this Winterfell battle may be a draw, but we’ve got more to come if they follow the book ending.
The Molehill that Rides,
No. I believe the AOTD and the Night King will be destroyed in the next episode too. The human story takes center stage afterwards, and we get to deal with the Dany/Jon succession problem and the battle for the iron throne.
I have no doubt that GRRM planned to have the war against the dead spill further South. But with the show having limited episodes and a budget, I think they will have them defeated at Winterfell.
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
Thanks a lot for the link. It seems that I have forgotten a lot since I read the books (only once) and every reminder matters.
Clob,
Completely agree with you there. It really did seem during this episode that she was observant and hopefully learning from these interactions (with Sansa, Jorah, etc). I am also hoping that her meeting with Samwell also helped shift her stance a bit. Since she was in Essos during the War of Five Kings she didn’t really see the destruction and death that power for the Iron Throne caused so she has had this sort of tunnel vision, as you said, regarding taking it back. I also wonder about the horror all of them will face next week and whether or not this will impact Dany’s goals (if she survives).
Melisandre not showing up yet is a bit surprising to me as I figured she would just before the NK arrives. I guess there’s a (very) little bit of time left to do so or even during the battle. I’m surprised because her inclusion HAS to be a part of defeating the NK, right? I understand we don’t know that the NK is defeated in e3, and it may be more likely that he’s not. Still, I figured she’d be back for the initial confrontation.
I’m probably more curious about it than necessary because I’m still wanting her to march in with the Fiery Hand. 😛
This is my hope for her (and Jon). I think she’s still looking for ‘home’ and if she survives, I don’t think it’s in Westeros. In S1E1, she told Viserys that she wanted to go home. Viserys defined home as Westeros. In Season 2, her vision in the house of the Undying took her right past the iron throne. In S7E2, she remarks that Dragonstone does not feel like ‘home.’ In S7E7, her conversation with Jon in the Dragonpit did not show her as being excited by the prospect of living in KL. She seemed to clearly understand that settling in KL was the beginning of the end for the dragons and her family. In S8E1, she remarks to Jon after the dragonflight to the waterfall, that they could stay there a thousand years and no one would find them. Could be wishful thinking, but I don’t think she’s that tethered to Westeros or the Iron Throne.
Ginevra,
And the characters still standing are the ones most of the fans love… I know various people have various favourites, but I’m afraid any of us will lose more than one beloved character.
Clob,
I can not see her as going insane. But with the use of Jenny’s song in this episode, I now believe it could be Dany, and not just Jon, who is faced with the choice of love or duty. And given how closely those two characters parallel each other, it makes perfect sense that they would each face that dilemma.
Tron79,
Hey, I’ve got that on loop on my phone. Such a beautiful, haunting song. I love how Pod surprisingly sang it to their fireside gathering (and, I think, we finally got the answer to what Pod did to those whores – he sang.)
I love the HBO version with Florence + the Machine and all the glimpses of past seasons, the lyrics superimposed. Ah, I’m welling up again.
The Molehill that Rides,
I thought this before the season started but now it seems too tidy and anti-climatic. They’ve built up to this for 8 seasons. It would feel strange to defeat the NK in a single battle.
krupke,
I suppose Dany still needs her “sun rises in the west” moment.
“When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before.”
But we obvs don’t have 8-9 months to see about a living child, or do we? Will Dany sail west of the west? Or will it be “pregnant” Arya using Dany’s face to sail west of the west? Time jump last epi? Ow my brain.
talvikorppi,
I know…I’ve watched it countless times on my TV (using my Roku).
It was great in the episode itself with Pod… It was so fitting for the night before the battle, but the video takes it to another level for me…. To see Arya water dancing, Jon and Ygritte, Catelyn (I spelled it right this time!)…. Jorah returning to Dany (and it fit the words so perfectly)….Arya jumping into Jon’s arms…. And so much more… I know I’m blabbering, but that’s what Mondays after one of the most amazing episodes is all about isn’t it… I really have no idea who’s going to make it out alive next week, but I’m thinking at least a few of my favs will make it and they will have to face what will come now (as was one of the major themes of the episode)….. I am hoping with all the foreshadowing of the crypts the dead starks will rise and at least help out the defenseless folks in the crypts and keep them safe if nothing else.
I like shipping beloved characters, but in this particular case I think it’s only friendship between two people who experienced the same hell and escaped together.
When in the Winterfell battle is Melisandre showing up, because she almost certainly has to right? She was name checked in the last episode.
And Beric mentions the Lord of Light, the Hound mentions Thoros is gone so he can’t be resurrected. It all gives callbacks to Melisandre AND that Jon is/was dead and resurrected.
Also, is the fact that Jon WAS dead not going to come into play at all vs. the Night King?? I mean he’s the one dead person that the Night King hasn’t been able to reanimate, because he was already “reanimated” by the Lord of Light.
Just think it can’t be so simple as he died and came back to life and then it never matters again….
Miss Stark,
It’s probable the NK and Viserion will be pursued by Jon and Dany on dragons to fulfill the Nissa Nissa scene, Jon’s sword on fire from her Dragon’s Blood.
But first we need Bran to mind-meld the WW hivemind to give us the exposition about the NK’s history with the 3ED.
Nadia,
What is dead may never die? That also needs to tie in, somehow.
What happened to Robin Arryn and Edmure? Will we ever see them again?
OMG, please everyone – go to Sophie’s Instastory and enjoy her shoutout to Maisie:
https://www.instagram.com/sophiet/
… and that’s the tea.
My predictions:
No NK was shown, which might indicate he is not here. I would think they would show army, giants, etc. And I would suspect they would see the dragon and NK up front, right?
I figured the NK really never had to create much strategy since he simply overran everything in his path. Perhaps a weakness of the NK.
But if the NK really wants Bran as the top priority, maybe he is just coming in via the tunnels.
I still think Dany is pregnant. That will immediately change her attitude. Maybe Jon’s too. I really doubt there will be a full-on battle with the WW at this early stage. Episode five maybe, but not here – not yet.
Why did they bother casting and naming a Howland Reed for the Tower of Joy flashback if he is going to play no part? I guess perhaps he still could but I’m beginning to doubt it. Also when Dany is dumbfounded when learning about Jon how does neither of their minds immediately not jump to Rhaegal allowing Jon to ride him? You’d think that would be the first thing they’d realize and be like, oh shit, that’s right…
Good episode though. They’re being a bit heavy handed with Dany. Don’t see much evidence to think she’s going to be getting a happy ending. Far from it.
Jack Bauer 24,
I think we will see Edmure again. People will need to flee south at some point, it makes sense that they will head to family. Really whatever is left of the Northern forces, can head to Riverrun, The Eyre, Dragonstone and Pyke. If it weren’t for undead Viseryon, the Eyre would be a fabulous place to hide.
I still don’t think we’ll see the NK in 803. Something’s up. They kept him out of the trailer and promos (minus his silhouette in the Aftermath promo) and the first 2 episodes.
Interesting. That’s the first time I’ve heard that Bran could be talking to NK. I like it.
Bobste515,
Ep 3, the battle
Ep 4, the aftermath, sorting out the dead, heading to KL
Ep 5, Cleganebowl, Arya using a face to kill Cersei
Ep 6, someone sits the throne. Arya heads west.
And I’m sobbing again.
Danny,
May need help from them too
Nadia,
Jon was resurrected, not re-animated. Jon has a soul and all his memories and his mind and personality intact. And if Daenerys is actually pregnant that means that Jon’s body is also in working order so he is not a mindless dead entity that came back to life. And in fact, you don’t even need a baby to prove Jon’s body is in working order. He is capable of getting aroused, isn’t he? So he ain’t dead. Jon also continues to take sustenance to nourish his body so he cannot be compared to the wights that get reanimated by the Night’s King. And as far as we know, Benjen never really died, he was dying and the children kept him alive by magic but they were countering the powers of the Others so poor Benjen is sadly an undead. Memory, personality and feelings intact but body only preserved.
My heart is still all raw and hurting, dreading what’s to come in Ep3. To counteract that, I’ll try a sort of a funny story about how I first saw S8E2.
I was spending Easter at my parents’s country place. I thought I’d wait until I got home Monday afternoon before watching the episode. But I sleep in the upstairs lobby and woke up when my brother went downstairs to go the toilet. It was 5.22am. No way could I go back to sleep, I knew GoT S8E2 was available for streaming (since 4am). My pad, earbuds. I laughed and cried quietly, felt all raw. Sister-in-law saw my tearstained, smiling face on her way back up from the toilet. I whispered, explained “Game of Thrones episode two.” She shook her head, say no more. I then watched the episode for the second time.
I was feeling all fragile, at the brink of tears, saying goodbye to so many beloved characters. And then going to have breakfast with my lovely dad who always talks about weather and doesn’t watch GoT. I let him talk, I couldn’t explain that I was all sore and vulnerable because of a TV show.
Fortunately brother, sister-in-in-law and niece came for breakfast. I tried to explain myself to sister-in-law, she goes lalalala, we’re not watching until the end, then bingeing. I go, OK. The only thing I’ll say, it was bloody brilliant. Dad is all confused. A TV show is this important?
orange,
Well, somebody had to save Ned’s life in the flashback and, with it being true to the books and Meera still being on the show at that point, casting Howland Reed seems logical. The possibility of using the character in future as part of the parentage reveal may have factored into it too. At least to keep the option open for the writers.
It’s still possible he might appear, but the chances have drastically diminished at this point.
Jon seems to have accepted Sam and Bran’s account. Arya and Sansa probably would too. There’s no real reason why Dany would believe some random Northern Lord any more than Jon himself. And I’d be surprised at this point if the writers cared about the need to convince the rest of the populace of the truth.
Next week will probably be an award winning episode, however, I’m a bit worried if that marks the complete and total end of the White Walker threat how anti-climactic that may come off.
They have been pushing “the real threat” and “the real war” since literally the first scene of the entire show (and prologue of the books). For that to totally end 50% into the final season, and only 4 episodes after they finally breach the wall is not overly satisfying. Though I do suspect it. It’s not called “Winterfell” for nothing I suppose.
Shy Lady Dragon,
I know I was just going all Tyrion there and dwelling on cocks or the lack thereof.
It’s going to be rough. Buy stock in Kleenex this week.
K. Elly,
Yeah, she’s very reasonable…to an extent. I really don’t know which way she’s going to go though…could be either.
Demanding 7 kingdoms is sort of a wheel reinforcing thing as opposed to breaking.
Well, I watched this morning, and reactions were – oh that’s good, oh, maybe that’s a bit of fill, oh yes, that works… and so on, seeing some parts as excellent, some as fine and others, well, maybe fill or even fan-service, though I was also thinking that this will have been a hard one to write, with all the pieces that needed to be in place for the waiting for the ‘big one’, and all the harks back to what had gone before. Gradually I felt it growing on me…
And then, Pod sang – Jenny of Oldstones – and everything came together.
On second watch, it’s a fine episode, among the best, and the pieces fit very well.
I can wait a week now. I’m scared for the deaths that may follow.
I’m not sure I can see any of the following to happen given the little that we think we ‘know’ about a very basic timeline for the season, but…
At the beginning of “Battle of the Bastards” we had an amazing sequence of scenes that concluded with Daenerys roasting ships and two Masters being killed. Everyone went into the episode thinking that the entire thing would be on the BotB and then the Battle for Meereen was a surprise addition. They showed nothing of it in the episode preview. We’re now going into 8×03 believing that this battle/war at Winterfell will be the entire episode. It probably is, but maybe it’s not all of it.
IF the NK is not actually there and he’s left his generals to attack and kill as many as they can, then where would he go? It sort of does make sense for him to fly to where there isn’t a large, prepared army concentrated on defending against his army. He could simply fly to KL and severely weaken their defenses at the same time his army is doing so at Winterfell. People would die simply from destruction and chaos that could be raised and left to run amuck. It’s a possibility to plop it in at some point when people start wondering where the NK and Viserion are…
just thoughts…
Sue, you do such a great job! Love this recap.
I believe this episode was not only about the characters re-connecting with each other, but to give us time to re-connect to them as they are when they are with family. Feeling all that warmth will only make it more devastating when they are cut down next week. The Missandei/Grey Worm dreaming of a future in Naath says death to one or both of them. That breaks my heart, and I just don’t know how I will stand it if we lose Brienne or Gendry or Pod.
Pod singing about Jenny Old Stones. Wow! And now we know how Pod charmed the whores–it was his voice, not his dick!
Jaime knighting Brienne–my heart burst.
I was caught off guard by the Arya/Gendry sex, but after the surprise wore off, it made me very happy. It makes sense that she would be the instigator even without experience since she is such a forthright, strong young woman.
I will be bringing a full box of tissues to next week’s ep.
Agree. It looks like they’ll need them. In episode 2, despite having a plan, the Winterfell alliance members seemed to sense that they had a higher probability of defeat/death than victory (especially after learning there’d be no reinforcements from KL). They seemed resigned to fighting rather than hopeful. I don’t want to see anymore animals die, so part of me would rather Nymeria and her pack head south.
I’m skeptical we’ll learn anything else about the NK’s origins or motivations (though I’d be really interested in that). I tend to think that Bran will have a major role in defeating him. If they’re linked by the mark the NK left on him in S6, then maybe Bran can use that link to manipulate the some of the NK’s creatures? There is precedent for Bran affecting people in his visions (Hodor, young Ned) as well as warging into various creatures (Summer, crows)….
Yeah it would be too “clean” for NK to just show up at the beginning and fall for the bait. They’re expecting Bran to lure him out, but I don’t think it’ll work or not right away at least. If NK does show up, I think it’ll be at the end of the epsiode. He won’t be there for most of that battle.
Cogman said that soon as 803 starts they are “100% in battle mode”, so at least the first bit will be in WF https://twitter.com/JamesHibberd/status/1120185459798421506 Maybe we’ll get some KL sprinkled in after the battle or during if NK goes there?
I think this is probably correct. It also explains the echo/surreal quality of Bran’s voice in the Season 8 trailer. He is using some creepy 3ER power to talk to NK at the time. And if he is speaking to the NK, then that will be taking place in the Gods Wood. We assume that the reference to home is an acknowledgement that NK was once a Stark. That story is going to be told in full in the prequel series The Long Night.
Implication: Which probably means Bran is warging at the time this phrase is spoken. That may have an unusual outcome, too.
No, please, don’t confuse the things. I’m not asking for them to show us fans everything again, others here think I’m saying that, I’m not saying that. We of course know everything, but this important delicate and powerful things have to be addressed on screen, not necessary showing us all again, but showing us the reactions and the discussions and the frustrations, the fears, all the emotions and the confusion this kind of information generates. That kind of complicated situations and discussions are the things that makes this series so special.
Listen, put yourself right now in the place of Dany: you arrive to Winterfell with all your army, your dragons, you already have just lost one of them because of this thing, you cancelled your life mission to easily conquest the Iron Throne to go to another war you didn’t have any plans with and that is really for now unrelated with what you have worked for, ok? You could deal with that after taking The Throne but you decided to go with this first. You have been convinced by this man named the King in the North, but this man give up his crown and says the he accepts you as the Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. Cool.
When you arrive you are cold received by his sister and suddenly there’s this boy in a wheelchair that says things that should be done and doesn’t give any reason why he is right and everybody does as he says. Does that sound credible to you as a viewer after all Dany has been through? Even Jon doesn’t understand WTF is Bran talking about not being entirely a man. What I am saying is that IT WAS necessary to show a scene with a reunion of Bran with every important character (Dany, Jon, Sansa, Arya, Jorah, Tyrion, Varys, Brienne…) talking about his power and what he can do, how he acquire that power and how he and all of them can use that power to fight with the NK and his army. Don’t you think it was the logical and the next most important thing they should have been done after he said that there was no time for nothing? A great deal of debates was thrown away by cutting that. Again, I’m not saying that anything done is bad, I’m saying that this should have been added to make everybody be on the same page in the mission and the big importance on protecting Bran.
If I ask you if right now Jorah knows how important is Bran, could you tell me he really knows? Does Tyrion knows?
Does Varys knows?
Does Dany knows?
Does Jon knows?
See? you can’t answer “yes, they know” you only can assume they know because well, maybe they had that conversation, but that’s not the way they (D&D) should have deal with that, and we certainly don’t know if they know. That’s why it was important to deal with that on screen.
On the Jon’s real identity reveal the thing is also even more complicated from a lot of angles, but at least if previously they had invested in that scene of Bran explaining himself the revelation from Sam and later from Jon to Dany would have a lot more sense and had something to be based on for him to reveal that to Dany with all confidence, and then they would let us on that cliffhanger because the NK has arrived. There’s no time to deal with that and Dany if really confused.
If I ask you if Jon have proof of that to be true, could you tell that he certainly does? No. You can asume but you don’t.
Now, that’s what I am referring to. I’m not talking about more Rhaegar/Lyanna scenes and Jon’s birth or Tower of Joy, I’m talking about those missing scenes that are keys for everything to bond together really well.
Aegon Snow,
But they dont have the time to sit everyone down and give the kind if exposition you want. Wait till the season is over and take it as a whole.
People dont understand the production time it takes to shoot all this.
We don’t need to have an on camera explanation for everything when the audience already knows it. If its a bigger reaction we are looking for v when people find certain things out, its probably because weve imagined all kinds of dramatic scenarios in our heads.
I thought it was a fantastic episode. They hit a lot of points. This isnt easy to do.
Another snippet from this episode – Bran saying that there have been very many 3ERs – makes possible a connection between show and books. The previous 3ER said he’d been waiting thousands of years … but book readers knew –
so there was a disjunction. But if he was only the latest in the successions of 3ERs, that disjunction is removed.
Doesn’t of course mean that the books will do it in this way!
King in the North East,
Same. Every actor who has been naked on the show was at one point 11. People grow up. It’s a thing.
I don’t buy her being 18, though. Sansa was 14 at the end of season 3, making Arya 13ish.
I agree with your acceptance. I think it was important to her for many reasons. She knew their love might be running out of time. And she knew everyone still treated her as a child. She and Sansa may be copacetic, but Sansa said “You’re still strange and annoying.” Worse, when Jon asked after Arya, Sansa snipped “Lurking somewhere.” Granted, she has that patronising attitude towards everyone. Arya wanted to be a woman, and who better to help than the man she had loved for six years.
By the way, yesterday morning HBO tweeted: By Age 18 in Westeros you should have: Had a pet, Traveled extensively, Had a kill list, been blind for a while, Ticked at least three people off your kill list. That’s not all of them. Collectively they apply only to Arya. She IS 18.
The plan to lure NK out in the open is odd considering he has a dragon and can torch Bran from above. Maybe Bran plans on warging Viserion?
If you haven’t already done so on account of Maisie Williams’ nude scene.
If the Army of the Dead is defeated at Winterfell in 8.03, without the help of the entire 7 Kingdoms, will that be anti-climactic or inconsistent with the story as a whole?
I’d argue that it would be completely consistent. Winterfell exists as the original place where the NK was defeated and driven back North. The bulk of the entire Northern tradition and purpose can be traced back to that point. The Wall was built to hold back the NK and Winterfell was built to house the Stark defenders of the realm – a location with proximity to the Wall that could also act as a backstop, should the Wall fall. While it would be nice if the entire realm rallied for this cause, this is a battle the Starks have always taken personal responsibility for.
While I’d expect the books to take more time building up to the Battle of Winterfell – including smaller battles at Last Hearth, etc., I do find it conceivable that the Army of the Dead storyline could conclude in 8.03.
Or Bran could be talking to Theon is the Godswood since he’ll be protecting Bran.
Steel_Wind,
Bran’s story is the most intriguing to me. I look forward to what the books will reveal within him.
To include the sentence about coming home in the preview indicates to me an important point that didn’t seem of great import being said to Dany or Theon. Your theory would be unexpected to most and feels plausible to me. We shall see!
Do you know that that will be the prequel?
Jack Bauer 24,
Occam’s razor
A lot of talk about one side or the other winning in 8.03 however the other possibility is stalemate but with some key individuals perishing.
Here’s an example
That last para gives some possibilities too.
https://ew.com/tv/2019/04/21/game-of-thrones-bryan-cogman-knight-seven-kingdoms-interview/
“There are so many things Gendry doesn’t understand about Arya. They’re having this nice flirtation and have this own shared history they draw upon but she’s very different from the Arya he used to know. There’s an attraction for him, but she’s also a bit scary too.” 😂😂
Jack Bauer 24,
My daughter who’s never watched the show thought the dragon would eat the NK and the end… But I did have the thought that Bran could Warg into Viserion and the ice dragon fire might do the trick….I doubt that the live dragon fire will work… it’s a really tough one, cuz I think Bran needs to go back in time and consult with the COTF a little to find out what can kill the NK. I thought Sam may discover the secret in one of his stolen books, but the battle is already upon us, so I’m not sure if there’s time for more research.
This was my favorite episode in a very long time. It’s up there with my favorites of the entire show. Some of the things I liked:
Tyrion seemed like Tyrion for the first time in a long time. (He did say one thing that gave me pause though – which I’ll come back to later).
Same with Tormund. He was a lot like the old book Tormund, telling his tells and bragging of his exploits.
Jamie’s redemption arc kept progressing without any jarring changes to his character. (He knows he did what he did for his family and his house and he does not apologize).
Brienne has come full circle and achieved a goal she thought was never possible. It was a nice touch to have her give that big smile.
Sansa and Dany talked things out but realistically the issue of the North’s desire for independence was still a point of contention at the end of the conversation.
The Hound is still at heart a loner, but still calls Beric out on his holy roller spiel.
Arya finally gets some and her long simmering relationship with Gendry comes full circle. I also thought it was fitting that it was the younger characters that were looking for passion on the eve of this battle while the older grizzled ones were content with sitting around the fire drinking, recounting things and singing.
Dany was rightfully suspicious of the claim that Jon was the rightful heir.
The Jorah and Lyanna conversation was spot on. He recognized that she was the future of their house and she was forceful without being overly bitchy.
I loved that there was a ton of battle preparations being shown in the background of many scenes.
One thing that Tyrion said that kind of troubled me: I found his line about giving up whoring and that things would be simpler otherwise a bit bizarre – hopefully it doesn’t mean he too is in love with Dany.
Sam gave Jorah the valyrian blade Heartsbane. Dany is going to die, and will be resurrected as a wight and Jorah will have to kill her. My heart is already breaking for Jorah.
Another way to look at it: if the person you knew as an 11-year old a decade ago isn’t having sex these days, then hopefully it’s because they are between relationships! (Just remember what you were doing at the age of 19 or 20, although I swear that 19 year olds looked like mature women then….)
The other bonus on this is that it stood the old “cliche” on its head. The notion of women giving men a “parting gift before the war” goes way back in human history (both in stories and in reality). Here, it’s the woman warrior who’s getting the bang for the road!
Quite fascinating, especially since Bran will be accompanied by Theon in the godswood. In ADwD, Theon/Reek is alone in the godswood when he hears a voice near the weirwood tree. “Theon.” That key moment ushered Reek back to Theon and initiates his plan to escape with Sansa. An acknowledgment/reminder of Identity.…an amazing progression.
Seems like Bran may be seeking to provide another “acknowledgement” to the NK…with worrisome results. I find it absolutely intriguing that Stark/Greyjoy Theon will be there to witness Bran’s attempt to use identity as a weapon.
Daenerys’ reaction was quite realistic. I know that some people still want these characters to be Tolkien characters, but by now people need to accept that Martin’s characters are like those from modern novels, and thus like those in the real world. Stuff like this is done all the time in modern character dramas: one lover hits the other with a big surprise (often something that Lover #1 just learned him/herself), and that something is a big money wrench in Lover #2’s life. After some cooling off period, either there is reconciliation or estrangement. Contrary to Tolkien, it’s not as if a “good” Daenerys would somehow know deep down inside that it’s true: people do not have mystical hotlines to truth.
It will be interesting to see what happens in the aftermath of next week…..
There is one other possibly important point. Insofar was we know, Theon is the only person who might be aware of the possible escape from Winterfell through the crypts. Bran didn’t know about it as a child: otherwise, they would have fled through there instead of just hiding in there. Sansa didn’t know about it: otherwise, she could have used it to escape Ramsey. Chances are that this is sort of akin to “the nuclear launch code”: i.e., something that the Lord of Winterfell & the Maester know, and that’s handed down on a need-to-know basis. (Remember, Theon was Lord of Winterfell!)
Now, Reek didn’t know about it, either: but Reek wasn’t Theon. The question is, will Theon remember. Still: who is left guarding Bran?
Thinking of the episode in full I was reminded so strongly of King Henry in Shksp’s Henry V. In lieu of Henry wandering, visiting his troops the night before Agincourt, we, the camera, have become Henry and we wandered through our troops before the battle.
This is a theatrical trope that has aged very well. It gave us so much of what we want for these characters we love.
Thumbs up to that. I’ve been reading all this nonsense online about the surprise factor associated with Argen. “Our little girl done grown up…” After her Faceless Man education and Frey surprise party, that is utter puritanical nonsense. It is disturbing that sex causes such reaction given the established violence factor.
This surprises me, can I ask why you suddenly feel this way regarding Jon and Dany? Quite honestly I felt this episode greatly decreased the chances of her getting pregnant or surviving the series. Episode 2 has just concluded, next episode will be a battle for survival and Dany May well try to kill Jon knowing he is the heir. Dany getting pregnant in episode 4 feels late in the game but not impossible if we want it to reconcile their relationship. Either way we won’t see a baby born unless there is a significant time jump.
Thinking about it though, how crazy and sad is it that 802 is the last time we’ll see all of these characters together? It’s the end of an era. Too bad Varys wasn’t at that fireside chat.
A thought occurred to me.
If Bran doesn’t say “Everything you did brought you where you are now. Home.” to Theon in the Godswood-which he totally might because it would fit Theon’s narrative then…
It could be something he says to Dany.
All I know is in her first episode, after being shown to Khal Drogo and having Illyrio and Viserys talk about their marriage she says. “I don’t want to be his queen. I want to go home.”
It could be something Bran says to her, repeating that conversation, that convinces her he really does know all the things. I don’t know.
Well, my reaction probably is going to be a minority one. To stand Peter Dinklage’s comment on it’s head, this is one of the only times I’ve ever seen a fantasy story (or part of one) that sorely needed more dragons and less character. What it really desperately needed was to switch out of Winterfell for a few scenes. However: at this point, there is nowhere else to go.
In retrospect, I think that it might have been better to lump the first two episodes into one 90 minute episode, with Jon & Daenerys both being told for the first time who Jon’s parents were at the semi-finale: only to have things disrupted by the arrival of the Dead. Yes, the “how do you spend your last night alive” stuff was pretty powerful, but there simply was too much of it.
Still, to their credit, they gave us a whole bunch of different versions of this. Arya & Gendry are the classic example (and it was either those two, or Jaime & Brienne: but it really had to be there); Sansa seeming to suddenly strike up something with Theon was along those lines; the knighting of Brienne was pretty potent; Jorah obtaining a sort of atonement via Sam was nice, too.
But….. we just needed something to shake it up. Otherwise, it was like a Phil Collins song: a nice hook that’s immediately likable that gets played to death before the song even ends.
One thing that I did like: Tyrion returned to being pre-patricide Tyrion, at least in part. Part of it was the vote-of-confidence from Daenerys: let’s face it, Tyrion has had a pretty awful run as Hand, and it would be far from unrealistic if Daenerys sacked him by now. But the bigger part was: he was hanging out with his Big Bro again! And that (as it will do in real life) set him back to more of the person he was before he was framed for murder.
I look for next week to be a blood bath. Obviously, the primary protagonists will make it: you don’t make characters primary protagonists unless they are going to do so. (Although I suppose that it’s possible that one of the “Big 5” will reach some apex for the entire story at that time.) Characters I can see going then include:
1. Brienne (now that she’s a kuh-niggut, it’s the perfect time to go out);
2. Pod (given his rugged good looks, Jon Snow-esque sword skills, sultry singing voice and legendary love-making skills, he has to go or no other man in Westerso will score again);
3. Beric (one last “kerblam!” for R’hllor);
4. Jorah (see Brienne);
5. Greyworm (never make retirement plans on this show);
6. Dolorous Ed (nobody can be that negative for that long, right?);
7. Lyanna Mormont (moxie doesn’t work on the undead);
8. All of the cute and not-so-cute kids;
9. Tormund (probably by the wight version of the Giant that suckled him);
10. Davos (trying to save some of the not-so-cute kids);
I would include Theon because Sansa was just too happy hanging with him, and that is usually a kiss of death. However, we’ve had the Iron Islands refuge hung on the Wall, where I suspect some of the refugees will escape. And I think that this might be really key: the one person that we know has been told about the escape through the crypts is one of the people guarding Bran.
That stated: Theon could basically have one of the brawnier Iron Men carry Bran away while he sacrifices himself trying to misdirect the NK.
All in all, I expect that it will be more fun than a barrel full of male Hamadryas baboons on stimulants and steroids……
I can’t even think about that without blubbering. But about Varys, I agree. He didn’t have a single line in that episode. I wonder if he was gathering intel. Hopefully he talks to someone in the crypts, because I’d really like it if he “keeps swimming” long enough to tie up a few of his loose ends. 🙂
This episode was excellent! After the first episode, I was skeptical about this season but writing here is so much better. No cringy moments like in “Winterfell”.
I liked almost everything:
– Jaime’s trial was good. So his role in Bran’s fall won’t be public knowledge? Didn’t expect that. Daenerys stating as his main crime the murder of her mad father. Well, it is in line with Sam whitewashing his memory of his father after learning that he left this world for good.
-Jaime and Brienne – just great! Him knighting her was the highlight of the episode.
– The group around the hearth was otherworldly. Maybe because the glow of the fire and the general good mood made it feel like they weren’t waiting for ice zombies to come and kill them all in the middle of winter, but were a group of old friends reminiscing around a campfire.
– Grey Worm and Missandei’s conversation was so sad to me and a symbol of undeserved mistrust, ungratefulness and shortsighted pettiness that not just them, but all the Unsullied and Dothraki and everyone who came with Daenerys have met with in the North.
– The golden Sir Jorah Mormont, the true Hand of the Queen, being more useful to Daenerys in just one scene than Tyrion was the entire last season!
– Everything that had to do with Theon was so emotional – His scene with Sansa and him offering to protect Bran was acted beautifully.
– Sam giving Jorah Heartsbane,
– all the lines the Hound delivered, even Arya had to shut up
– Gendry and Arya – maybe too fast, but the end of the world is coming, so who could blame them? Arya’s line from the trailer was even better in the actual context.
– Some progress was made with Daenerys heeding Jorah’s advice to meet with Sansa. The first steps are important!
– Pod singing Jenny’s song and the beautiful montage that accompanied it. The next scene is Jon and Daenerys in the crypts talking about Rhaegar and Lyanna. This got me wondering about the prophetic side of the story. In the books it is revealed, that it was Jenny of Oldstones who introduced the witch of High Heart to the Targaryen court. The witch told the king that the Prince that was Promised will be born of the line of Aerys and Rhaella so he forced his children to marry against their will setting the stage for the events including Robert’s Rebellion. Or I’m just such a nerd, aren’t I?
– Where is Melisandre?
– Did Tyrion manage to weasel out any juicy info from Bran’s infinite collection, or was it just some small talk to keep Bran company?
– The thing I didn’t like – Lady Lyanna Mormont should just lay back a bit!
– Jon and Daenerys – I left the hardest thing to assess to be the last. I am all for them to succeed together and be the power couple they were hinted at at the end of season 7, but their relationship seems to be stalling. Jon was pretty invisible in this episode and we didn’t see the immediate aftermath of him learning the truth. The way their conversation in the crypts was going, I was expecting him to ask Daenerys to bend the knee to him which would be completely out of character. On the other hand, Daenerys is not convinced when the biggest argument (Jon riding one of her dragons) is staring right in her eyes. That was frustrating!
– All in all, this was one of the best episodes of the show for me so far and it inspired me to write this (unexpectedly long) comment!
Very true: but also very American! After all, good girls are not interested in sex unless they want babies, right? Of course, there have been fans who have desperately tried to suppose that only a couple of years have passed on the show, even though the show has always seemed to indicate that about one year elapses per season. This last confirmation that, no, Arya’s really supposed to be in her late teens by now might have been too much for them.
Still, this almost entirely stems from the ridiculous double-standards that people put on women. And that is a shame, because the double-standards prevent those people from seeing important parallelisms between male & female characters that are creating the story!
The issue is, when might they next see each other? I expect that both will survive, as they both are primary protagonists: but I also expect that both will wind up in different places physically.
(The only “out” on this is that Bran could, in principle, go Cylon and upload the 3-eyed Raven into someone else; but the show has introduced no plausible storage spaces.)
That is one thing that makes me 99.9% certain that the Night King is not going to be ended next week. Melisandre is going to come back and die here, probably accompanied by Red Church warriors. That fight will be against the NK, not against Cersei. However, unless they are a late-arriving cavalry, it will not be in Episode 3.
This stated, I did half expect her to turn up late at Winterfell with armed support. One, I really felt that Winterfell could use at least one more set of uncomfortable interpersonal dynamics: it was not quite set to collapsing into singularity. Two, (and somewhat less facetiously), we know that the Red Church has a side in this and that they have the ability to be shown future events; it would not be ridiculous that they would have been shown where the last big stand will be. The fact that they did not arrive at Winterfell suggests that R’hllor is directing them elsewhere.
That seems pretty implausible to me. Her reaction was the way that anybody in her circumstance should react. After all, she’s gone through incredible lengths to fulfill familial obligations carrying the burden that she’s the only one in the world who could do it. Along the way, she has gained an agenda for reforming the world. And now, out of the blue, someone else has the stronger claim under the rules that count?
This sort of thing happens all the time in character dramas. My bet is that, ultimately, she will reconcile herself to this. After all, she’s already put off reclaiming the throne in order to do something more important.
Tyrion Pimpslap, I love you. That was AWESOME information, never heard this before?? What am I missing? But THANK YOU.
In a strange way, Jorah might fit the Azor Ahai prophecy. First he tempered the sword in water, by crossing the narrow sea, but the sword broke, as he was banished. He then drove the sword through the heart of a caged lion, well that was when he captured Tyrion, but the sword broke, as in he got greyscale. The third time he drove the sword through the heart of the one love – the sword is called Heartsbane, and if he drives it through Dany’s heart, o well!
Just two more things:
– Bran’s line from the trailer wasn’t from this episode. Who is it directed at, I wonder.
– I expected Daenerys’s knee jerk reaction to Jon’s words to be that she is not the last Targaryen, but it was how he has a better claim to the throne. I didn’t like it one bit.
Well you know I loved it, and felt that episode was a long time coming and necessary to remind us of all we’ve gone through for the last decade.
Also I’m in denial about your #1 and #10 choices for death
those two would just slay me. I’d be #11
I think probably yes to
Pod-because I love him too much and he’s too happy in general
Edd-basically the last NW standing-and that will kill me too because I really do love him
Lyanna Mormont-geesh a lot of kids die in this show
Alys Karstark? She was at the battle table
Royce. I think Royce could definitely go, but probably not because I wouldn’t be that sad about it.
Honestly, I’m wondering if Missandei dies instead of Greyworm. I can see him at the end going to Naath to guard her people for the rest of his life. And unless she’s been a secret faceless man this entire time as a shocking twist, I think she’d be a more powerful blow to the audience and Dany.
Varys? Not sure.
Beric? I kind of imagined him passing on his gift ala books, so if he just dies in this episode without doing that, I might wonder why he was in so many scenes after already telling Jon why he should keep fighting the enemy.
Tormund? His death would signal the end of the wildling storyline, since he was the main face of it. He steals every scene and he’s a definite fan favorite, so I’d be crushed. But it’s possible.
Gilly. That would be horrible, but I thought it, so I might as well put it out there.
I go back and forth on Jorah and Theon.
Jorah seems more likely-he was even sending Dany to others instead of holding tight the way he did before. But giving him Heartsbane and him saying the line about guarding the realms of men sort of upped his chances for survival in my mind. Also I LOVE JORAH. He had me at, “Here I stand.” or was it when he said, “The Shadowlands beyond Asshai”?
And while Theon has made it up to the Starks by showing up, he might need to face that final “you remind me of Ramsay” uncle situation. Also he made Sansa look approachable for the first time in a while-so I’d like him to stick around.
Back to #10. I think Davos will end up saving some kids and escaping. He’s a smuggler. He knows how to get through a blockade-undead or not. Or Mel could sweep in and save him to sort of make things up to him. Also I just feel like he’s still needed. And he’s my fictional dad, so I’m in total denial.
And Brienne of f-ing Tarth is going to survive. Quick, someone make her swear an oath. She never breaks those.
That said, untold number of Dothraki and Unsullied, Vale and Northern soldiers are sure to perish.
Crossing things we don’t lose Ghost or another dragon. My heart can’t take it.
Yeah I love that story. Jenny and the Ghost of High Heart and the grief at Summerhall. It brought back a lot of book memories for me. Also Pod’s version made me cry like a baby.
I agree. He would have to abdicate his responsibility and duty. Very un-Jon like. I do think he would try to find a compromise (marriage most likely), but as selfless as he is, I can’t see him just saying “oh, you have it.”
We also haven;’t yet seen how Jon feels about Dany being his Auntie. I realize Targs don’t care about inter-family relationships, but the Starks certainly do. I can’t imagine that facet gets swept under the rug.
RG,
My list is similar to yours….
I fully expect Brienne to live.
But we should expect a few surprises.
So, is claiming the throne selfless or selfish? So much of the criticism of Daenerys is predicated on the latter.
I’m sorry n but no. There is no way AT ALL that 7 or 8 years have passed in the story.
Season 1-3: somewhere between 12 to 18 months, given the time references that are given.
Season 4: one month tops
I’m not sure about the following seasons, because time indicators became increasingly vague starting with season 5 but my guess would be:
Season 5 + 6: a little over a year
Season 7: a year or less
I’ve already said much on our stone kings, but I keep mulling over the quotes (most are here, Ginevra) from Book 1 and thinking of how much emphasis the show has placed on the crypts this season: an entire trailer dedicated to the crypts, the new opening credit sequence that feature the crypts, critical scenes from “Winterfell” and “A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms” set in the crypts, tons of mentions of hiding in the crypts for the next episode, and a brief flash of the crypts with a huge stone king and direwolf in the Episode 3 Preview, 13 seconds in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdkS4Xazz7Q
Considering all that the show has done this season and the dozens of times in the books that GRRM personifies and animates the stone kings and their direwolves, I’m 99% certain that these stone kings will walk. I don’t see any other option. The only question that remains is if these dead kings be playing for Team Living or Team Dead.
My vote is still for Team Living. George has been telling us these kings aren’t your normal kind of dead. The Starks know to burn the dead. Old Nan knows. Bran certainly knows. Starks can warg as well as the NK, so the books have established. And the books tell us twice that a Stark must always be at Winterfell.
Bran the Builder was said to have built both the Wall and Winterfell – and Winterfell’s crypts – using the best defenses to combat the Others. It seems like I recall reading that Winterfell was considered the last great defense from the North after the Wall, but I couldn’t find that quote.
Jon has a recurring dream of the dead kings waking, and this quote that I missed earlier is quite something.
So… Arya is dead. I didn’t know that until just a few minutes ago, rereading this passage, but yeah. Ned is dead. Robb is dead. Benjen is dead. Arya is the only living person on that list. Now that she’s lost her virginity with a man she adores, her time has come to be on someone else’s list. Maybe it won’t happen. Um, yeah.
Jon doesn’t fear the kings. Something else is down there that he does fear. The wights, the Others, or the NK, perhaps.
I love Jon screaming that he’s no Stark. He dreamed of knowing who he was years before he knew who he was!
Queen of Nothing,
It really blew me away and elevated the episode to one of my all-time favorites. I did get one thing wrong, however. The Ghost Of High Heart told King Jaehaerys of the Prince Who Was Promised prophecy. Not Prince Duncan.
It made me think about which character the song fits most. It could be all of them, really, but I came to the conclusion it may foretell Dany being on the throne, with almost all of the people she loved dead and gone. That would certainly be bittersweet. But it could just as easily be about Jon with a similar result.
Mango,
I forget if I already posted my dead list, but, here goes:
Theon
Jorah
Gendry(Arya will be forced to kill wight Gendry)
Grey Worm
Podrick
Edd
Tormund
Wimsey,
Right? This reaction has been driving me crazy since it aired.
Arya and Gendry-in the books-were heavily set up for future romance potential. HEAVILY. Tons of symbolism and hints and commentary and POV thoughts etc.
So eventually it was going to happen.
Also? Other than brothels, paid companions and incestuous relationships-oh and the love story of Jon’s parents-this might be the first time a grown woman has-instead of killing countless men-decided to have a consensual evening with one that she genuinely wants and admires. Most wholesome and least scandalous relationship on the show to date, apart from Missendei and Grey Worm and Jon and Ygritte. Okay and Sam and Gilly.
But no one freaked out when they got together.
King in the North East,
The Blackfish states in season 3 that the war had been going on for two years by that point. The war started in season 1, so that means 1 year per season.
It becomes increasingly difficult to have a solid grasp of time from season 4 onwards though.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Why do you want to do that to Gendry? He’s basically the only smith still living, the last man with Baratheon blood and he rowed a boat for three years to get here.
Also Gendrya!
🙂
King in the North East,
It’s explicit word from the producers that each season is meant to be about a year. That’s largely an acknowledgement of the reality that they’ve got a bunch of kids on the show who are visibly aging.
Trying to fit these years into the narrative is impossible, though (if it wasn’t, GRRM himself would have been able to when he wanted lots of time to pass). But the show is loose enough with the details that it falls into the “don’t think about it” category.
Yes, I could see that list too.
Greyworm would be unfortunate as that would result in a 50% decline in people of color in the series. Sigh. However, from a story point of view, it does work if he goes. Unless they decide that it may be more interesting to see them try to tell Daenerys that they want to leave.
I think Gendry is done as well.
Gilly and Little Sam represent the integrated wildings. So maybe we have the end of Tormund.
I would hate to see both Jorah and Lyanna go – so Jorah may be off.
To me, it has to be Theon, since Theon will be guarding Bran at the weirwood tree. It makes sense that Theon is the one that came “home”…
Jack Bauer 24,
And we didn’t have Daenerys and Arya meeting for the first time. I thought it would’ve already happened by the end of ep2.
Sean C.,
Mr Derp,
There are a couple of conflicting time measurements in the show, that’s true. I recall Talisa making a similar statement not long before the red wedding.
On the other hand, we have Sansa stating her age as 14 in late season 3. So if by then nearly 3 years have passed, she’d have been 11 in the first episode. Which we know she wasn’t, because in the pilot, she says she’s 13.
Daenerys also states that she got her dragons and army in about a year in S3E7. The last time she had no dragons was in S1E9.
So it’s all a bit muddled that’s true.
Season 4 however leaves no doubt about its timeframe which is about a month.
As I’ve said I’m not sure about 5-7, but I find a 5 year timespan for these three seasons (which is what it would take to make Arya 18) very hard to believe.
Clob,
I noticed that as well. I just shrugged it off. I don’t even want to consider what you hinted at. I’m afraid my poor heart wouldn’t be able to survive it.
I was up most of the night thinking about who lives and who dies next week. I think a lot of supporting characters die – at least one person super close to every major character, but I also think one main character has to go too.
My money right now is on Jaime. The battle is his final step in his redemption. His death would be the final step for Cercei in her spiral into villainy. While yes she sent Bronn to kill him, her brief tears at the end of her scene with Euron (alluding to the baby) says she still loves him. His death frees her, in a way. I realize a lot of people ship Jaime and Brienne and a lot of people think Brienne will die. But what if that scene was less about Brienne’s final goodbye, and more about Jaime? Hmm.
It could also be Tyrion. I do think Dany will lose one of her top advisors – Jorah or Tyrion. But right now I’m betting it’s Jorah.
Like I said, I think each main character will also lose one or more close supporting cast members. These are my current predictions:
Dany – Jorah, Missandei
Jon – Davos, Sam, Edd
Arya – Gendry
Sansa – Theon, Royce
Bran – Meera (she has to be there somewhere, right?)
Tyrion – Jaime, Varys, Pod
I think Grayworm, the Hound, Tormund, Brienne, and Gilly survive. Beric dies.
For me, any “meet” or “reunion” that hasn’t occurred yet implies that they may meet while under duress, which is 10x better than a sit down chat.
As for Sansa-Hound, remember that he had a chance to escape with his “little bird” during Blackwater. Perhaps he get another opportunity once fire and ice bring unhinged chaos to town…
Jon is undead already. He (and Beric) just work for a different god.
RG,
My money says Brienne survives. Bronn will be the one to kill Jamie and he will die in Briennes arms.
Seems like three characters at least who really don’t want to be in the Crypts. The preview shows Tyrion on the battlements and Sam with soldiers in the bailey of Winterfell. Lady Lyanna didn’t want to be below either.
The trailer for Season 8 shows Arya running through the corridors of Winterfell quite terrified, and the preview of Ep 3 shows Beric and the Hound armed and tense near the top of one of the stairways in Winterfell, too.
Bottom Line: Not looking good for Gilly, little Sam, and Varys.
They were both at the war council meeting so it seems safe to assume that they were introduced because manners.
I am still firmly in the Jaime kills Cersei camp. It is too obvious simply because it makes the most sense. I don’t buy into Arya stealing his face and doing it. That wouldn’t feel right. It wouldn’t feel earned. It has to be Jaime or Tyrion. IMO. My bet is still on Jaime.
Jorah: Dead
Grey Worm: Dead
Missandei: Dead
Davos: Dead. Will die trying to save the women and children below. Heroic death for a fundamentally decent man.
Sam: LIVES. I don’t think they are gong to kill Sam. There is something in those books we need to know — and Sam hasn’t found it yet, plus, it’s Sam!
Edd Tollett: Dead… though maybe not.
Tormund: DEAD. Undead, even.
Gendry: LIVES. I think he will make it.
Theon: Dead.
Royce: Totally Dead.
Ser Brienne: DEAD
Jaime: LIVES
Tyrion: LIVES
Podrick Payne: DEAD
Sansa: LIVES, probably – but don’t count on it.
Arya: LIVES
The Hound: Lives
Beric: Dead Dead Dead.
Jon and Dany: BOTH LIVE
Ghost: DEAD
And the biggie…
Bran: DEAD. Bran is not going to survive in human form. I think he will warg a dragon though, before his human body dies.
I could really use a recap post on all these comments 🙂
Last season and I have no time to participate here!
I don’t think he is there, else we would have Seen him at the end of episode 2.
Clob,
I think she just try to comprehend the news she just got, and I think (Which is logical) she is a bit pissed at Jon at the moment. The only problem is that if they talked it out it would have ease Dany, I think Jon wanted to say, but I don’t want it.
The NK came and now it can grow inside Dany’s mind that feeling she is having now. And I think that will turn out bad.
I feel sorry for her, yes I still think she will lose her shit this season. But I think it is because of unfortunate circumstances. 🙁
JamesL,
Didn’t you watch last season? Every boy and girl over the age of 10 needed to fight, orders of Jon. Which is happening now under Dany too. Lyanna is over 10, and she stated back then she will fight herself.
Milutin,
I think Jon was getting ready to say the “I don’t give a fck about the Iron Throne” part when he was halted by her reaction which to him must be out of place because that is not how he would react, that is not where he would place emphasis on. Her reaction also gave him pause because it kind of reinforced the doubt that Sam put forth last episode in terms of Daenerys’ character. You did what was right. Is she capable of doing the same? Jon doesn’t care about the throne but he may care to know that Dany has it in her to do honorable thing even if it was just between them and Jon cedes to her in private.
You are assuming that Meera and Howland will not show up somewhere in episode 4 or 5. They might. Howland Reed might have Dawn. If Jon loses Longclaw vs NK, he might need a sword. And more importantly, Dany might need independent confirmation of Jon’s birth from someone other than Bran and his best friend.
Not saying this will happen. But it might.
RG,
I worry for Gilly too, since she’s been harboring Craster’s son, a stolen sacrifice from the NK, it is his brothers out there attacking Winterfell. They are Gilly’s brothers too I suppose. I hope the little girl with the scarred face will actually protect them both!
Ginevra,
The escape route that the show refers to in the crypts is a way in as well as a way out.. and will be just as significant in the books.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Oddly, it’s already happened to Cersei. She has no one around her who truly loves her.
Direcat,
I didn’t notice that while watching the episode. Thanks! Still a bit underwhelming it happened off-screen.
Nope: just off of the top of my head, Jaime refers to having been imprisoned for a year. Multiple weeks were supposed to elapse in the very first episode. Sansa was tormented for years by Joffery. Joffery’s wars lasted years, too. Every time prior seasons are referenced in the context of time, it’s months and years ago.
Steel_Wind,
The NK was cheated out of his sacrifice when Sam saved Gilly and Baby Sam. I would not be surprised if Baby Sam was a target…
“I have a son, you have a daughter……” That’s classic foreshadowing: it tells us what is going to happen, but what happens is not what we expected given the initial statement. One reason I expect Gendry to survive is that if he’s legitimized, then the foreshadowing becomes 100%; however, he has to survive to do that!
But, then: houses were joined after a fashion…. 😉
Wimsey,
Sansa is also thirteen in the first season and only fourteen in the third, to cite a counterexample.
As I said, it’s a “don’t think about it too much” situation, the result of trying to cram years into a storyline that expressly couldn’t be stretched over that many years when the original author was trying to do that.
I loved this. All of THIS. Thank you!
Steel_Wind,
I agree that Howland and Meera still need to make an appearance. I just keep thinking…they’ve said twice now that all banners were called. House Reed is pledged to House Stark. So either they’re there and we just haven’t seen them yet, or they ignored the call? Meera knows what the Dead can do, I can’t imagine they’d have ignored the call.
I agree that Howland has a purpose. The show spent too much time on the ToJ story, and with Dany questioning Jon’s sources for his parentage, it feels like the perfect set up for a Howland appearance. But now I think you’re right, Ep. 4 or 5 makes sense.
I think its to Theon. He will forgive Theon next episode. Personally I hope he will forgive Theon in the final because there’s a big chance he will die right after that.
Jon Snowed,
Bran thinks he is his target, Bran can see everything but he has never looked in the NK mind. I think the NK is after something else, and that’s why the plan of Bran fails, because he will not go to the godswood where Bran is. He will go for his real target. Dany or Jon is my guess.
Raenarys,
First I hated them as a couple because they were show to much. Now I love them. When they kissed I was half in tears because I thought, this is the last kiss because there’s no chance both of you survive this horror. 🙁
Jack Nabble,
Dude take a chill-pill.
But I have to agree with you. If I knew I was probably going to die in a couple of days my biggest concern was my family and friends, having the last laughs together. Because how much you prepare for this, it doesn’t make a change, you probably will die anyway.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
I think that the army of the dead will be defeated with all the WW except the NK himself and Vyserion. I think those 2 survive and that he makes little armies of people who died in the battle of 5 kings. That way they don’t need that much CGI for upcoming episodes and the NK could be left alone in second part of episode 4 and the whole of episode 5 and episode 6 he could be defeated in a smaller and maybe something magical like way.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Same but I think Grey worm will survive and Misandei will die. And that in the final Grey Worm will go to Naath alone to for-fill Missandei’s last wish.
And I think Varys will die.
Nothing in the show has set up that possibility. They’ve never resorted to Deus ex Machina like that before; why would they start now?
As for Jon’s dreams in the books, I expect that they will be pure symbolism. After all, Robb’s body is not in the crypts.
Or Jon was seeing Lyanna, who looks like Arya! Or he was just dreaming that the three Starks who accepted him were rejecting him, too.
At any rate, given that Arya is a primary protagonist, she’ll be there at the apex of the story, and I do not think that will happen the penultimate episode. She’ll have a close breath with death next week: but, then, who won’t? I would not put much stock in Jon’s dream foreshadowing anything, and there has not been any comparable foreshadowing on the show.
I hadn’t thought of that. But you’re right. Baby Sam was supposed to be a White Walker.
I don’t think Arya dies next week. We spent an entire season having her train with the Faces. Why kill her off right now? Doesn’t make sense. However I do think Jaime could die, and if so, perhaps Arya takes his face, uses it to get close to Cercei, and the Valonqar prophesy is (somewhat) fulfilled, and she crosses a name off her list.
Daenerys has not been developed like a character going insane. It’s much too late to do that now without it being completely arbitrary: and one thing that the show has not done is provide arbitrary turns of events.
And, again: why spend 7 years on dynamic character development only to throw it away just before the climax of the story? Sure, having some faux protagonists in the first half of the story is fine: but faux protagonists really need to be weeded out by now so that the viewers can focus on the story.
Other things that caught my eye:
1) The final scene with the whitewalkers. I think that was the most we’ve ever seen in the show. Hope dragon fire works against them as well as dragonglass and valyrian steel.
2) Ghost looked realistic, but smaller than you’d expect (esp. compared to Nymeria from S7E1). I think it must be fundamentally harder to create and scale the direwolves for CGI. I’m better able to suspend disbelief for the purely mythical creatures (dragons), but for any creature rooted in reality (direwolves)…even small ‘inconsistencies’ get magnified in CGI.
3) It seemed odd to me for Brienne to expect Jaime to insult her (during their interaction on the training field). I don’t think Jaime’s insulted Brienne since S3. They argued briefly in S4, S6, and kind of in S7, but no insults. Those arguments were mostly to do with her encouraging him to find his honor, but I don’t think there was any nastiness from him towards her post bath scene at the Dreadfort in S3.
4) Liked the shot of Greyworm supervising the collapsing bridge.
5) IF they defeat the AotD, I was a bit worried the dragonglass weapons might be too brittle if they had to fight Cersei’s forces during a surprise attack, but Gendry slamming the dragonglass axe(?) against the table during his scene with Arya seems to suggest otherwise
Danny,
Yes, that could be the way to interpret it. What struck me the most is how the reveal was played out both between Sam and Jon in ep1 and between Daenerys and Jon in ep2. The personal aspect (Jon longing to know who his mother was his whole life, Jon and Daenerys being related)) was quickly replaced by the political one (about the Targaryen succession) and it happened with two people who are supposed to care about Jon first and foremost as a person and not a political entity, that is his best friend and his girlfriend (lover). That is why I didn’t like the way Sam told it and it seems to me it influenced the way Jon got into full kingly mode saying his name was Aegon Targaryen, Daenerys reacting defensively etc. But I guess we haven’t seen the last of that conversation yet.
Wimsey,
Agree, I don’t think Dany goes crazy, not like the Mad King. But I do think she makes one more hasty decision driven by her ego and ambition, and it has disastrous consequences.
I think she’s already on her way to learning that her “Dracarys” way of doing things might have worked in the East, but that mistake will help her fully comprehend that it’s not going to be the way to fulfill her ambitions in Westeros.
That❤️ I loved this episode; one of the best ever on this show for me. Very emotional, lovely paced, great character interactions and this haunting song. 9.9/10. My heart is not ready for ep3. 💔
It’s not the fighting so much as the character evolution: why have all of that for one of the Big 5 (or 6), and then throw it away before the climax of the story? So, unless the story has multiple close-set climaxes and next week offers one of them, I don’t think that will happen.
Here is the other rub. Bran has told us what the Night King wants. Bran still has not told us (or discovered) why. “Why” is everything in these stories: and Arya should be one of the characters present when they learn “why.”
That would not be poetic enough, I think! Jaime will survive: it’s Brienne who more probably will not. Jaime is not as primary protagonist, but he’s one of the most prominent 2ndary ones. Given the unfinished story angles between him and Cersei, it would be a waste if he dies now.
I don’t think that “ego” or “ambition” are the right concepts here; remember, she’s doing it all out of obligation to family. That’s come up over and over for all of the characters since the start of the series, and we got a big reminder of it last night: Jaime said that he’d do it all over again because their houses were at war when he did all of those “bad” things. That is the most basic aspect of the morality system in Westeros: any person who does not do everything that he/she can to further the fortunes of his/her house is a bad person. (The fact that we might feel different is of absolutely zero consequence; nobody in Westeros holds our ideals.)
Moreover, Daenerys really does not make hasty or egotistical moves. She gave Tarley every chance to get out alive: and she refused. She gave the slavers multiple chances to reform: and they did not. If anything, the Daenerys has been too lenient, as we saw in Meereen: had she taken the more draconian measures that several of her advisors pushed, then many bad things would not have happened. (Of course, as this is a story, she would not have gained her Dothraki horde without those events.)
I agree that’s totally possible. I think I’m just holding onto any string of hope that Brienne could survive. I still want her to have one tumble with the delicious Tormund. After she shared her personal stories with Jaime back in the hot tub years ago, I always wanted her to find a guy who, from the very beginning, was so into her – for being her. No “growing to love her” or “accepting who she is”. Loving her for who she is! When he looked at her last night and was genuinely baffled why she wasn’t a knight, my heart almost burst. Then when he was standing up clapping so hard?
I just love both Brienne and Tormund and want them to both make it out alive. Wishful thinking I’m sure :).
now finally after reading every comment my view.
Damn bryan cogman and David nutter and the whole cast and crew. How could you do this to me, I cried my eyes out this episode. Sansa and Theon together. Brienne getting knighted. Big praise for those guys.
Also laughed alot, Thormund gave us the most funny scenes in the episode of the whole show.
I’m glad the show gave us these character moments the past 2 episodes, this is why we watch this show, because of them, they let us know why we are behind these guys, why we love them, why they feel real to us.
The only 2 downsides for me were:
– No breakpoint halfway true where you visit another city, but I don’t know what they could have shown us. Even a flashback through Bran would have helped.
– Too few of Ghost. I wish he was there more in the background.
I would give this episode a 9,2
And about Dany, my predictions stay the same, I think the show will go her losing her shit and Jon needed to stop her. but even when this happen I don’t think we will be happy about it, it is not a victory, it’s not defeating a villain, it’s defeated a beaten girl (I use this word on purpose instead of grown woman), who is a victim herself. I start to understand her bad actions better this episode because of the acting of Emilia Clarke.
First I will put the first seasons in my own words for my thinking of her character and why she is doing this and why if she needs to be defeated we will feel sorry for her.
– Before the show we can expect Viserys loved Dany in some way and let that know to her, but at the same time he talked about hatred for the Starks and Jaime etc. That love he showed was filled with hate and getting power back.
– Viserys loses it, his love fades, and is transformed into a blindly mission to get the Iron Throne back, which he hurt Dany in the process. He combined power and love.
– She was sold to drogo, which she was raped by (yes still rape) when that changed to love, his love was combined with power, he would help her getting the Iron throne, power is the way to show his love to her, his power to make that happen.
– Drogo die, the only way to take revenge is showing her power and killing mirri maaz duur.
– Season 2, her love for her people, she needs to show power, they love her when she show that power and they follow her.
– Season 3: She uses her power to bring down the masters, which in replace gave her love of the people.
– Season 4: Same as 3.
– Season 5: Once she softened up, people started to use her, and dislike her, the old-slaves started to hiss at her. Her “naiveness” almost was the reason why she, Missandei etc died in the Arena. They survive because of the power drogon gave.
– Season 6: Once again power is shown and she receive love of the people.
– Season 7: Her allies were not there because they love her, its was the power that she possesses and the means to take revenge on Cersei that drove them to her. Until Jon.
Her love was always combined with power. That idea is being programmed in her brain without her even knowing that. Her goal for the Iron Throne is not only a power move, but it’s for her to get love, because that’s how she received love, she never received unconditional love like Jon or Sansa got, she was used and a powertool.
That’s why she shown her dragons to the northerners, she expected them to awe her, but they didn’t. That’s why she felt shit because how much she try she can’t get the love of the northerners. Sansa which she expected to get some love (because she is the sister of Jon) but she dislike her just like arya and Sam. And now the person she loves told her she is first in line without him explaining everything how he stands in it. She will feel like Jon is after the Iron throne, and his love is not real. Like she is being used again like a means to an end and be thrown away when that goal is finished.
She is a little girl, longing for a warm heart of a lover, a parent, a friend, which she feels is tied with the Iron Throne. And she will put on a dangerous shield to protect that little girl from harm. A shield that destroys her and after that everything in her path. And if that happen, I will not look to her death in a happy way, I will not hate her, I will feel sorry for her for whats been done to her. Because after all she is a bigger victim then any of the Starks ever were.
I think that’s what GoT also represents, how much impact the love of a parent can have (or the lack of it)
Wimsey,
Read my comment above, I explained it.
We already know why the Night King is doing it — he is a magical weapon created by the Children of the Forest with the goal of Killing All Humans. And we see him…trying to Kill All Humans. As the creators have said many times, he is the embodiment of death. Bran learned this four seasons ago.
ThisGirlHasNoName,
Why would Howland’s word make any difference to Daenerys?
Lord Reed is surely important in the books, given all the setup, but the show has largely ignored that beyond the token mention in the flashback sequence. And they wrote Meera out of the show in Season 7 when they could have easily kept her around.
First-hand witnesses are strong evidence. Sam’s source is a book that probably isn’t even at Winterfell, and Dany doesn’t know Bran enough yet to understand the 3-eyed raven business.
ThisGirlHasNoName,
Dany knows Bran is a seer; that’s how he knew about wight Viserion, for instance, and it was his word about the Night King’s army that prompted the wight hunt in the first place.
Dany expressed dubiousness about Bran and Sam’s motives — Howland, a vassal of the Starks, is no more reliable in that regard. It’s not like he has Jon’s original long form birth certificate hidden away.
Bryan Cogman, with all due respect, f you for making this grown man weep.
Kudos, good ser, and my heartfelt thanks. You wrote my favorite episode to date. So many feels.
That’s a “what,” not a “why”: it provides no indication of why he’s deviated so far from his initial mission.
Wimsey,
Pretty much this. Though I would still maintain that 7 years passing from 1 to 8 is highly unrealistic, even if we’re leaning more to a longer timeline.
Season 4 alone easily takes 11 months off the timeline. And a great many events in the show don’t work or even make sense if we assume the characters just sat around for months in between episodes.
It is not improbable that Daenerys will not need that. Remember, we got her immediate reaction: and that had to be incredulity. I mean, who would not be incredulous. After all, look at Jon’s immediate reaction. However, Jon got more time to digest it.
Daenerys herself showed the path she has for realizing that it makes sense: the classic story was completely at odds with everything that she had ever heard about Rhaegar. But, again: this is Martin, not Tolkien; we should expect human reactions, not idealized ones. When people have their knowledge turned upside down, it often takes time for them realize that, actually, it looks better that way.
Given the amount of geography that the characters have covered and how slow travel would have been in such times, the show really needs much more time than this.
Wimsey,
No, that’s a why. He was created to kill all humans, which is why he wants to kill all humans. It appears he took this so seriously that he turned on his own creators in the process, though the show’s handling of the Children (and really, the whole backstory angle) was extremely perfunctory. There’s no gap in the Night King’s current behaviour that needs to be filled.
And it’s one of those things that is “too obvious” only to those people who obsess over the series. (Not that any of us fit that… 😎) Martin, Rowling, etc., all are telling stories the way that people always told stories. They hang guns on the wall, provide foreshadowings, etc., just as authors have always done. The advent of the Internet and the possibility of “group thinking” has not changed the rules of storytelling, at least not yet. Yes, Jon being Lyanna’s son or Harry’s scar being a piece of Voldemort’s soul are “obvious” to fans who discuss it endlessly with other fans. However, in the end, people will judge the tale based on how much it makes sense to the person who reads or watches it once and only once: just as people have always judged tales. And, no: those people do not give a rat’s ass about the fact that fandoms exist, and they would be highly critical of storytelling that required fan-level devotion to understand. After all, if you have to study a story to understand it, then that story was pretty poorly told.
Sean C.,
Sorry Sean, but you really have to just stop.
Wimsey,
Well, Dany did cover half of Westeros in record time if we look at Beyond the Wall…
😉
Let’s just agree that the timeline is inconsistent/ ambiguous enough to allow for both 4 years and 7 years.
(Though Little Sam doesn’t look 5 years old to me)
I know its been emphasized that they came in together and will leave together, also the v prophecy, but it kind of takes away from Jaime’s arc if he does, and it’s one of the epic arcs in this series. Unless Cersei kills Brienne or becomes the Night Queen, then all bets are off. 🙂
Wimsey,
What in the text makes you think there is any more to the Night King, precisely? We already have his origin story and goals, and his current actions are completely in alignment with those goals. There’s nothing missing.
Moreover, nobody in the show is asking the questions that you seem certain have yet to be answered. One of the rudiments of mystery storytelling is that there is a sense that there is a mystery. Nobody on the show spends even a moment contemplating the Night King’s motivations, not even Bran, who already possesses the sum total of world knowledge. His actions need no explanation (even the brief bit in this episode is only meant to supply a reason for him to be on the frontlines to try to kill Bran, since it doesn’t really add anything to what was already explained).
Sean C.,
Howland may be able to reveal the house with the red door and the lemon tree.
The Luke/Leia theories haven’t been debunked. We may yet have a surprise.
As far as I know, the valonqar hasn’t been introduced in the show. It’s book-only.
Therefore, couldn’t it be entirely plausible that Cersei will die another way in the show? Perhaps she’ll simply get blown up with the Keep in either a wildfire explosion or by dragon fire. It would be poetic justice for her to die by wildfire. She’ll probably be sitting on the IT waiting for the inevitable to happen similar to the Blackwater when the IT all gets blown to bits. Just my opinion.
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy, and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth and you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion
Sean C.,
Yeah, the Night King is basically this story’s Sauron. Like you say, if it was going to be a factor, it would’ve been hinted at at this point.
Valar morghulis, hasnt been quoted endlessly for 8 years for nothing,
No doubt tissues will be a necessity next week
It seems more likely that she is already in Westeros – in King’s Landing. She came across the Narrow Sea (in winter, remember) with the Golden Company.
She’s not in Winterfell. The only cavalry which may be coming are the Wildings and rest of the Night’s Watch – who Jon did call to Winterfell but who have not yet arrived.
Maybe you are right. I think it more likely she will appear in episodes 4-6 to provide the possibility of a resurrection — or a misdirection in that vein to support a claim she has brought somebody back to life who is really Arya in disguise.
A false resurrection feels like a twist worthy of GoT.
krupke,
You are quite right that Jaime and Brienne have enjoyed warm conversations since he saved her from the bear.
I think that Brienne felt somewhat insulted at the Dragonpit meeting after she walked after him and told him to fuck loyalty. He repeated it in surprise then kind of brushed her off – well, he strode off.
Brienne looked at his disappeaing back with her hurt eyes – she was surprised that he was not more responsive. They are close enough that she spoke up for him at his “trial” but when they spoke privately she let him know her pique. Her “always insult me” was a bit of an overstatement but not too egregious. Jaime prolly knows what it is about.
There are a few scenes from the trailer that COULD go past episode 3:
Sansa outside looking at something in the distance during the day. (1:25 mark)
Tyrion looking concerned in the courtyard of Winterfell during the day (1:28 mark)
Drogon (or Rhaegal) spit-roasting something or someone in the dark. (1:29 mark)
I could well be wrong about Arya. I HOPE that I’m wrong about Arya. She and Jon have long been tied as my favorites. Perhaps I just freaked out seeing her listed with the dead. And the guy who wrote the Dothraki language seemed convinced she was a goner.
We are in the endgame now. This whole season is the last half of the last book. When GRRM said the Big Five would make it until the end, this is the end. Winter has come.
***
The lady who did the new intro sequence said that set pieces we see in the intro foreshadow what we see in the series. Twice we’ve seen the Red Keep dungeons with the dragon skulls, and I’ve been wracking my skull to figure out how we’ve already seen or will see these skulls. Now, I’m not so sure that’s the part we should be paying attention to in those dungeons!
As Jack Bauer 24 keeps reminding me, the biggest weapon of the battle to come may not the wights: it may well be the dragons. To counter these weapons, won’t Team Dead come with lots of their little ice spears to bring down Drogon and Rhaegal? And what are Team Living doing to combat Viserion? Not. A. Freaking. Thing.
And that brings us to the Red Keep dungeons, where we see the scorpion pointed at the dragon skulls in the opening title credits. The scorpion that Bronn used. The scorpion that Bronn reminded us of in “Winterfell” when he mentioned that he’s the only man we’ve ever met to have shot a dragon. What if Bronn shows up at Winterfell not only with Tywin’s crossbow but also with the giant scorpion? Far-fetched, yes, but I do wonder why they keep showing us the scorpion in every opening credit sequence, especially since we’ve been told that all of these set pieces will be important.
What do you think the reason will be for her to travel all the way to Volantis if she just comes back alone?
We heard red priests and priestesses spreading the word that they believe Daenerys is the one who was promised and Kinvara told Tyrion and Varys the same. So everyone at the red temple of R’hllor in Volantis believes this but none of them nor the Fiery Hand return with Melisandre?
Okay, this crypts theory needs to die (and thankfully, will in just six short days.)
Most of the dead in the Winterfell crypts have long since decayed to dust. The ones that haven’t have been entombed in stone. Even IF the Night King raised them, how are they getting out of their tombs?
This is not a thing that will happen. I would put real human money on it. Do you really think our heroes are so dense as to have not thought of this?!?
Other point:
If I have to read one more article with a male author mansplaining to everyone how Arya and Gendry was “gross,” because of age difference or the fact that we’ve known Arya since she was a child, I’m going to lose my shit.
Looking at you, Spencer Kornhaber at The Atlantic.
Arya is a grown ass woman and they are consenting adults. Guess what, guys! Kids grow up, and then they fuck. It’s literally how our species perpetuates itself.
This was a phenomenal episode. I had a smile on my face the whole way through it. It’s gonna make next week suuuuuuuuck.
Last but not least, I’m starting to get won over by this Night King to King’s Landing theory. It would totally mess with expectations, and I’d be shocked for Cersei to be left on the back burner for 2.5 episodes (at least).
Hibberd said none of the footage is from the back half of the season https://twitter.com/JamesHibberd/status/1120190995906195456
Mr Derp,
The show hasn’t mentioned the valonqar, but the writers have said that the show will mimic the broad strokes of the book ending, and while Cersei’s death could be achieved by other means, Jaime being the one to kill Cersei would be a huge, huge part of his own storyline. It’s hard to imagine that being omitted from his arc and his ending being the same.
But Jon is not asserting any titles or claims, he’s just revealing the name he was born with. Jon isn’t announcing himself as Sam did, who asserted Jon was “Aegon Targaryen, Sixth of His Name, Protector of the Realm, all of it.” All Jon says is that his real name is Aegon Targaryen:
Jon wishing this information was impossible and untrue doesn’t make it seem Jon is interested in the title or birthright. I don’t think Jon is focused on the political aspect here: Bryan Cogman stated, “What really upsets Jon is that he’s a blood relative to the woman he’s in love with. In the crypt, Jon is taken aback when essentially the first thing she says is acknowledging that he has a claim to the Iron Throne.” Additionally, when Emilia Clarke explains Dany’s reaction, she says Jon doesn’t even want the throne Dany has worked so hard for all this time: “There’s so much she’s seen and witnessed and been through and lost and suffered and hurt to get here… and Jon doesn’t even want [the throne]!”
Based on this and Jon saying multiple times he doesn’t want the crown, I don’t think Jon is trying to replace the personal with the political.
That said, to defend Dany a little bit, I think this is a natural, immediate response on Dany’s side. I think it’s pretty natural that she’s shocked and the Iron Throne is something she has strived for since season 1 – not being the heir to her family’s dynasty she has worked so hard to reclaim is going to be super startling. As others have said, Jon has had some time to deal with the information while this is Dany’s immediate response. I think Dany needs some time to come to terms with what this means and hopefully, she’ll realize this has a positive side as well: she’s not the last Targaryen, she has family. I can’t see Jon suddenly wanting the throne out of the blue, especially now. Unless we have players pushing Jon’s claim or something happening in the future where Jon feels he must take the throne, I don’t think Dany has a rival claimant here.
King in the North East,
I think I agree. Before Bran’s exposition this episode, there was room for some alternate motivations from the Night King. But unless Bran was lying, it seems the dude just wants to get rid of all humans and institute unending night. It seems just to be part of the programming the CoF somehow magically put into him when they created him. That programming went awry, but the urge is still there.
It kind of reminds me of the supercomputer Hactor in A Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy who at first balked at creating a superweapon which would destroy all creation and then regretted it and went to all kinds of crazy lengths to fulfill that purpose.
*Stark small council meeting. Cardboard cutout of Ghost repeatedly falls over throughout.*
Sansa: ” Guys…confession time. I don’t know if it’s because of our shared past as survivors, or something else, but I’m feeling some kind of way about Theon.”
Jon: “Well…I did forgive him for what I could forgive him. I guess I can hardly hold it against you.”
Arya: “Reaaally!”
Bran: “Heh. Already knew that.”
*Sansa, Jon, Arya glance at Bran*
Arya: “Well…..I’m sleeping with Robert Baratheon’s only living son.”
Sansa: “WHAT???? WHO????!!!”
Bran: “Heh, already knew that.”
*Sansa and Arya glance at Bran*
Jon: “Actually, so did I.”
Arya: “WHAT???”
Sansa: “….wh….wha…?”
Jon: “Knew he was Robert’s son! I knew he was Robert’s son! Not slept with him!”
Bran: “I knew that you knew that.”
*Jon glances at Bran*
Jon: “Sighhhhh…..well…”
Bran: “Here it comes.”
Jon: “Um. So. Turns out I’ve been sleeping with my aunt.”
Sansa: “WHAT? Wait…who?”
Arya: “Oh, that is nasty. What the hell.”
Bran: “Already knew that.”
Sansa, Arya, Jon: “SHUT THE FUCK UP, BRAN!!!”
Bran: “Just sayin. Can’t believe you’re a Targ.”
Jon: “Oh for…yes. Dany is my aunt. I am Lyanna and Rhaegar’s son. I am the last living male Targaryen.”
Sansa, Arya, Night King: “WHAAAAAAAATTT??????!!!!!!”
Bran: “Knew that too. Heh.”
*camera plans back, general view of Winterfell*
*Bran falls out window*
Bran: “I knew that was going to happennnnnnnnn……..”
I guess I was a little bummed that her first thought was political. However now that I’ve thought about it, it makes sense. To her, the blood-relation revelation means nothing for their romantic thing…in her world it’s totally normal.
I know…it is few things that make me emotional when it comes to fiction, but this show is a big #1. I remember walking around in a fog the day after the Mountain vs the Viper, and I fully knew what was going to happen. Lol.
100%! I don’t get it at all. Girls grow up to be women, why is that so hard for some people to digest? I was stoked with Arya, what a wonderful rite of passage for her.
This darn episode has made me realize that every damn character will affect me if they die, not just my favourites. We’ve been with them so long, they’re familiar. Augh. Lol.
ThisGirlHasNoName,
Yeah, and I was sort of saddened by that too because I really do like them together. I think the throne isn’t just political for Dany, I think it’s personal too. It’s something she’s invested her all in, her life in, kind of like Jon clinging to being the son of Ned Stark. It’s an identity thing. Dany, as somebody who grew up without the family Jon had and with only an a$$hole of a brother, has viewed taking back her family’s dynasty as her life’s goal and kind of an identity. They’ve both lived a life based on false information and made decisions according to what they knew and this revelation challenges everything they knew.
Right, incest is no big deal to Dany – I think even Emilia Clarke touches on that! 🙂
I’d love a Gilly/Dany scene (I know it won’t happen) – Aemon was fond of little Sam.
The crypts are indeed filled with dead bodies… that are in either sealed tombs, or with heavy concrete lids. Not to mention all but one or two of them have been there for long enough that they’re likely deteriorated beyond the NK’s abilities or usefulness.
Death is a matter of perspective…this story has warped the idea of death/rebirth in many ways over the years, many of which are represented at WF now (Jon, Arya, Bran, Theon, Dany…).
Did Bran/3ER learn nothing from the attack at weirwood central? He did.
Did Bran/3ER learn nothing after the virtual NK arm grab/mindmeld? They are connected!
Why didn’t Bran/3ER tell the CotF (WW creators) of their impending doom before the attack? Inevitability.
Also, there are many NK-related potential ‘whys’ left to explore:
Why the taunting/chasing of Starks (undead Jon/reborn Bran)?
Why the obsidian/valyrian steel vulnerability?
Why male Craster babies?
Why is Dany unintentionally helping the NK? (Giving him a dragon, marching after the dragons are born, fashioning a dragon-killing weapon after the Scorpion injured Drogon…he is aware of her)
I believe Bran’s “exposition” is intentionally incomplete. He has learned something of the NK (and possibly himself) and will position himself next to a weirwood in order to confront his nemesis with his master tool/weapon: a spectroscope into reality and truth…identity. Bran is better prepared this time. As the physical war wages, a virtual match continues.
Looking forward to this aspect of S8Ep3. RiP Hodor…
Thank you, Sue, for your wonderful summation of what probably is now my favourite episode. And thank you for bringing a light touch and even a bit of cheerleading to it. Bryan Cogman, not my favourite writer, has produced a masterpiece. It is a poetic valediction capturing the the transience of existence and the fragile bonds we make and break, or fates make and break for us. Surely, it was Cogman’s love letter to our old friends, the characters.
Talvikorppi, Tron79, so many more: The beautiful Jenny’s Song was reminiscent of Pip’s song in Return of the King. But this is a lament for ‘people’ we have known and loved for eight bloody years. It is so much more resonant. IIRC, Pip sang it to comfort the old Steward in RotK. Pod sang it on the eve of likely communal destruction. (Kudos to Daniel Portman and Florence Welch for giving haunting and poignant renditions, accompanied respectively by story or music video-type visuals.) Whilst Pod sang. the camera showed several couples and others. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if in each group someone will die. I hope not. The original song was about Jenny being left behind by the ghosts. In the couples, I think the males will be the victims. Even if the women fight, they are still associated with bringing forth life. (BTW, does anyone else think Gilly looks preggers?) GRRM said in his famous 1993 outline that this was almost a generational saga. Only the young generation of this chronicle remains, butthere are hints of a next generation. Perhaps we can take solace in that sweet side of the bitter.
Hodors Bastard,
All good points here, I especially like your idea that Bran will be using the weirwood as a tool/weapon in the fight against the NK. Also, in his weirvisions, Bran isn’t crippled. I like this.
My biggest gripe with the show on these points is that dragonglass creates the WWs, but it also can prevent someone from being wighted (Benjen), but it also kills the WWs/wights… I mean seriously make up your mind here. Clumsy, IMO.
Truly. I have genuinely not been able to get the song out of my head since last night. I mean I’ve loved Castamere and the Bear and the Maiden Fair, but Jenny’s song is haunting. And it resonates-perfect word-for a number of reasons. The obvious-that we’re about to lose a lot of characters and possibly Winterfell itself. The more obscure-that Jenny of Oldstones is a reference to a story about giving up the crown for love, as well as having a connection to TPWP prophecy and the tragedy at Summerhall that coincided with Rhaegar’s birth.
But also it’s kind of perfect for us. Each episode brings us closer to the end of the series. People who have been reading for decades and people who have watched for close to ten years, rooting for characters, mourning characters and waiting to see how things would turn out. I know there will be more books and a prequel, but this episode might be the last time we see all our favorites together, drinking and talking and waiting for war, and we “never wanted to leave” either.
Sorry. I think I have dust in my eyes. 🙂
Milutin,
I agree. I’d love a lot more interaction but it is what it is eh?
I can’t help but wonder about Mel’s own words…”We will meet again”…directed toward Arya. There must be a twist with this assertion, imho. As implied in other posts, I’m assuming that Arya will be facemorphing at the time (Jaime/Tyrion/Sansa?) and Mel will inadvertently bring him/her back and….surprise, surprise.
Mel’s in Volantis discussing her exploits, especially her successful raising the dead effort, with others. They will be intrigued and may help in unexpected ways….maybe even reversing or disabling the NK’s spells.
In episodes 4-6 though? Crazy…
It is possible that is the way it will play out.
My belief is that the end confrontation with Cersei will be “mission oriented”. They have to fly in to the Red Keep on dragon back (assuming any are left alive) in order to depose her and prevent her from playing her “hole card”.
Cersei’s ultimate leverage over King’s Landing is the same card that Aerys tried to use: “burn them all”. The wildfire is still there buried beneath the city and Cersei has already demonstrated her will to use it.
That’s why the “strike team” approach seems likely. And Cersei trying to give that final order out of spite is the one thing that would cause Jaime to kill her, whether she was pregnant with their child or not.
We’ll see. The valonquar prophecy is not important to the series and the manner in how a character dies in GoT may be at variance with the planned end in ASoIaF. It’s the destination, not the route, which is important.
Still, if it’s Jaime in the Red Keep killing his sister — “burn them all” is why he will do it. Again.
Talking about double standard and biased..
All along dany was power hungry and war monger when she wanted to take back IT..
Where she was faced with criticism of how Targs lost her power and not have any claim to IT whatsoever…she is being selfish and so on…
Now it has become duty and jon should not shrug off the duty to make a claim to IT because he is the rightful heir..
When it comes to dany’s first reaction, I might have missed Jon’s reaction where he thinks about the love with dany and how he is related to her upon hearing it the first time…haven’t we all discussed how jon has not yet realised how he is related with dany last week…
And when dany has the same reaction it shows that she doenst love jon and care omly about IT .
And going on to claim that dany may go to the length of killing jon..I just can’t take these guys serious ..
Heh…it’s like a backdoor system hack designed by the CotF but not fully tested and eventually becoming a debilitating virus. But yeah, that is a key “why” if not simply a “clumsy” implementation!
Bran’s conversation with Tyrion probably had a multitude of info gems that a strategic mind like Tyrion’s could use. He needs a win badly (but it may not help Dany). There were a few dangling scenes like that in this past episode.
I took this as the writers just using shorthand for what actually happened. Winterfell is basically in the dead center of the north. It wouldn’t make sense to recall literally everyone there. You need to have some secondary lines of defense and possible cover for egress routes if you need to retreat. Recall everyone to the north, Karstarks, Umbers, Mormonts, and so forth. But it makes more sense to keep places like White Harbor and Greywater Watch manned. Probably White Harbor more than anywhere else since Dany’s fleet is moored there, but the neck should remain covered. I don’t see why they’d recall people from that far south. From the immediate south, sure, like Castle Cerwyn and Barrowton, but you don’t want to completely abandon the places you might need to retreat to.
Ginevra,
You’re taking book passages and applying them directly to the show. The show is doing a watered down version of what the books will do with the crypts. The stories have diverged to much to assume they will be the same. Jon names Ned, Robb, Benjen, & Arya because they are the Starks that he was closest too. In the books, proof of his birthright will be in Lyanna’s tomb.
My guess is a letter or song (a song of ice & fire) from Rhaegar explaining how Jon is the chosen one, the Sword in the Morning, who will end the long night. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Greatsword Dawn is in her tomb as well. So when Jon yells he’s not a Stark it’s clearly foreshadowing that he’s a Targaryen whereas most think it’s simply him being a Snow.
The book passage that scares me for Arya is the one referring that says something like she’ll be found dead in the middle of winter with a needle frozen in her hands (was referring to her sewing lessons but quite scary with her sword being called needle as well).
I’m amazed to see some people putting Sam on their “Dead” lists. I think Samwell has the most plot armor of anybody. Not only is he GRRM’s surrogate in the story, but he’s also the cognate to Samwise in LotR: He is the keeper of the chronicle of the great war of his time (the Red Book of Westerosmarch, so to speak). He’s the scholar who has to be around to finish writing it all down at the end.
Adrianacandle,
Maybe it came across differently, but I wasn’t trying to put the blame on Jon. They are both equally my favourite characters and I just wish that their interaction reflects a bit more the trust that should exist between them by now. And I Iike softer moments becuase they are rare in this show. So, when I mentioned them being related, I wasn’t thinking about the incest issue and maybe I am reading to much from books into the show, but I wanted Daenerys to be glad that she has something form her favourite brother. In the books, she longs to have known Rhaegar. He is the family that she thinks of often, how he would be the one to protect her against Viserys’s rage, that his son with Elia would’ve been of age with her so that they could have married if the Rebellion hadn’t happened. When facing difficult choices she wonders what Rhaegar would have done. He has been her imaginery moral beacon and Jon could very well become a real one. I would like if the show would convey something like that.
Milutin,
Maybe it came across differently, but I wasn’t trying to put the blame on Jon. They are both equally my favourite characters and I just wish that their interaction reflects a bit more the trust that should exist between them by now. And I Iike softer moments becuase they are rare in this show. So, when I mentioned them being related, I wasn’t thinking about the incest issue and maybe I am reading to much from books into the show, but I wanted Daenerys to be glad that she has something form her favourite brother. In the books, she longs to have known Rhaegar. He is the family that she thinks of often, how he would be the one to protect her against Viserys’s rage, that his son with Elia would’ve been of age with her so that they could have married if the Rebellion hadn’t happened. When facing difficult choices she wonders what Rhaegar would have done. He has been her imaginery moral beacon and Jon could very well become a real one. I would like if the show would convey something like that.
Right! and it almost feels like they want to fulfill everybody’s fantasy of making Dany this mad person who just wants power. In fact in books she sort of longs for home and when she understands that no body is going to make her feel safe, she projects strength to make her feel safe ( but she is vulnerable inside)
Yes I agree with you the Night king will be defeated in episode 3 or in 4. I then expect episode 5 to deal with Cersei and maybe Dany. The finale to explain what happens next from the ashes of these great conflicts.
I could be well wrong but it’s amazing we know virtually nothing beyond episode 3.
Dragonbringer,
Dany can literally die saving everybody’s asses and people will still complain that how her body didn’t roll over into the grave and how someone else has to bury or burn her after she died. ( How can she be so selfish) Dany sneezes she’s a bitch, Dany laughs she’s a bitch, Dany breathes she’s a bitch, look Dany’s smug. look Dany’s hypocrite … but everybody else ‘s is just perfect.. not Dany though..
Milutin,
Oh no no no, your comment came off just fine! I’m so sorry if I sounded at all accusatory, I didn’t mean to be!
I agree with your comment here and I wish the same. I think Jon is bothered by the incest issue because he wasn’t raised in the same culture Dany was – but I agree with everything you’ve said about Dany. I see her the same way. I was thinking about that today – how Dany mused if Rhaegar’s son with Elia had lived, she might have married him. As you also mentioned, I also remember how fondly she thought of Rhaegar. Because she does have that yearning for family which I think is more evident in her book arc (especially since we have access to her thoughts), I think Dany can still get to this place of accepting Jon’s parentage and finding the good in it – he’s a part of her favourite brother, he could be that family she wants.
There’s Dany’s vision that she had in the House of the Undying where she approaches that snow (or ash) covered throne, slowly reaches out to touch it but before she does, she hears her dragons and turns away. She walks through Castle Black’s gate beyond the Wall and goes into that sunny hut. Dany has more difficulty turning away from Drogo and their son than the Iron Throne. So maybe Dany can overcome her initial shock and upset and see Jon as the family she’s always wanted, that part of her brother who she never got to know.
OR maybe I’m naive and my hopes will get pummeled 😉 But I do see Dany the same way!!
I agree, Melisandre not turning up was a surprise and does make me wonder if the Night King will not be ended in episode 3. I can certainly see Melisandre coming next episode however so we can’t rule it out yet.
If she doesn’t my guess is she comes in episode 5.
Adrianacandle,
Thanks! We’re on the same page with this:)
BranStark,
I found it telling how they presented Daenerys to be out of place and out of step in each of her scenes in Winterfell. She was overruled by Sansa and Jon regarding Jaime’s fate, then she made some progress with Sansa only for it to be almost undone by the end of their conversation. Then Theon came and pledged to fight for Winterfell in an emotional scene that told Daenerys how all those people have known each other for years again highlighting her foreign-ness and not belonging. The final impasse for her was of course talking to Jon in the crypts. While all other characters were somehow coming together, she stood out. I just hope it is not some kind of foreshodowing of her turning against everyone else.
very good episode 7/10
But is anyone going to talk about the Elephant in the room, (yes you want elephants )
but that the night king is hours away, and they have no plan of how to defeat him, and are only now just talking, but no proper discussion, instead we got jon being useless as always and Sam doing a weird corny speech ( since when is he a mouth piece for everything ) only scene i didn’t like was his speech
This was the episode we should of had last week, that episode was a waste of time,
an can someone please feed Sansa to a dragon
To be honest I would never have thought Dany would kill Jon, but she does have motive, it was actually an article ran by a UK newspaper “the Express” which made me call it out:
https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1117211/Game-of-Thrones-season-8-episode-2-news-Jon-Snow-death-Daenerys-Targaryen-HBO-video
P.s just keep in mind that although this is one of the most popular newspapers it’s the equivalent of Fox news for our American contributors.
Milutin,
<3! And I think there's hope! I wanted to hug Daenerys throughout this episode because it was clear she did feel alone and on the periphery. I understand that Jon's brain was busy melting down with a seismic shift identity crisis but when he avoided her due to Aunt Incest Issues, I felt so bad for Dany, who had no idea what was going on. But I did like when Dany hung back upon finding Jon in the crypts, Jon gave her that smile and it was then she to came to him and locked arms with him. And even after everything… took a turn…, they still had that moment on the battlements where they nodded to each other and put some shared plan into action despite the strife.
I know I'm replying to your response to BranStark's comment but I wanted to add that I don't think Dany will turn on everyone. I'm hanging on to the vision in the House of the Undying for all it's worth!! I mean, I'm prepared to be wrong but maybe this is how she sways the Northerners? When they see Dany in action, risking everything she has. And then the story will tear Dany and Jon apart in another brutal way (Nissa Nissa X_____X) But then again, soft hearts like mine are the easiest to tear apart by fiction – which writers love 😉
Jon Snowed,
ignore that newspaper, they are obsessed and post weird thrones stuff daily, most of it is click bait and ridiculous fan theories,
Milutin,
I don’t think they will take that path with Dany. Her whole purpose ( what she think’s her purpose is ) has been snatched away in a moment.. and I think she will find her purpose realigned when she sees Jon/ any other person she loves/likes whose fighting the battle in danger.. Frankly at this point there is just NK and Cersei as conflicts and they have to have some Drama between the characters. Honestly ppl can’t expect her to react ” yay nephew! I knew it all along in my dear heart.. and if I think of it.. even my dragon knew!!” things like that takes time to sink in.
My actual complaint is with “Smartest Person Ever” Sana. She asks how does she feed two armies and two dragons, but girl knows her brother went to fetch allies.. did she expect him to die? or fail? so the ” smartest person Ever” Sansa didn’t consider the remote chance of her brother actually succeeding in securing allies?
and she asks tyrion how do I feed them? what would ” smartest person ever” have them do? return to where they came from?
she and her tantrums *sigh*
Adrianacandle,
my thoughts exactly..
I would say Bran’s line from the trailer will almost certainly be to Theon when they are in the Godswood next episode.
If I had to write a list of characters I was confident would survive next week then Brienne would be high on that list, purely because I am convinced her arc will end with writing Jamie’s deeds in the white book. I also feel Jon and Dany are safe, as there is clearly a plot line there to resolve. Everyone else could die but most likely Jamie, Pod, Theon, Jorah and Missandei/Greyworm plus some minor characters like Lyanna Mormont (sadly), Lord Royce, Alys Karstak etc. I just cannot imagine this battle wiping out half the cast but casualties do need to be high given the threat build up.
I feel Jamie is the big death next week and wasn’t there an article coming from a legal case which confirmed
.
I also forgot about Beric, he’s going down vs the Night King in my point of view.
Jack Bauer 24,
I expect the first 65 minutes to be the battle and the last 15 minutes the day after. The survivors.
And maybe those scenes were cut from episode 1 and 2.
dwm,
But not the latest ones, I don’t know much about bones but when preserved couldn’t they stay bones for ages before turning to dust?
Dragonbringer,
Damn you’re one of the most bias on the forum when it comes to Dany, damn, maybe for once trying to look it how others look at it? Like many who think Dany will go the wrong turn try to think how dany is thinking, didn’t you see my long post above where I tried to explain why I think it’s logical why Dany reacts the way she reacts?( and most of us even think she is not evil when she does that)
We don’t say we don’t understand Dany’s reaction. We say Jon don’t understand that reaction (as explained by Bryan Cogman the writer of the episode, so you can’t deny that’s the truth because he wrote it).
So maybe blame Jon instead of the fans?
And there’s also a big different, for Jon there were more complications in his mind. One, his whole life, from birth. Ned lied to him, robert wanted to kill him if he knew. thinking if Ned was honorable there or not. At the same time, Sam pushes for the throne. So that’s already big time on his mind. Jon’s mind had more important things to do, his connection to his know family. It’s logical that it took time for him to recognize his family bond with Dany. And even that was known to him before episode 2 started, didn’t you saw him ignore Dany because of it?
About Dany, 2 things on her mind: 1. Iron throne competition (even when Jon said he wished it wasn’t true so why even go there, yes I understand as I stated above) and 2 Jon is her nephew which Jon even said with few words and took his time so that Dany could understand it in one go.
So please stop being bias and listen to the makers of the show and to other fans, like the ones that think Dany will go wrong way, listen to people who are huge fans of Dany and changing their minds more to them. Maybe you could do the same?(especially with the news of the writers and the actors playing these characters on what they said)
And you stated that it was strange people think she will try to kill Jon (and they don’t state it as if was the truth only an idea that could happen), so if it happens, are you admitting you were wrong about Dany or blame the writers?
BranStark,
Nobody stated Dany is going Mad. And if it happens in the show it will happen in the books, it will not be fan service. So if she loses it here, she will lose it in the books.
We even understand where Dany is coming from and that the Iron Thrones is for her getting the love of family. We all hope Dany will understand this sooner that she could have that everywhere, throne or not.
We all hope they all get along. We just are afraid that’s not going to happen.
BranStark,
Nobody will blame her if she saves the day, damn. everybody will cheer her for saving the day.
But if Dany will burn the whole KL to the ground and killing the million people living there, Dany fans still go on how she is the savior of the story and how that was justice. (Do you see how ridiculous your point was above? Just like this statement is ridiculous because I think no dany-fan will forgive her that)
Regarding Arya, I will post some filming news which may hint at her fate – it’s not conclusive but I will use spoiler tags
.
Jon Snowed,
I think the NK will be until the final of the story. (I still hope for the Gods eye.
Milutin,
I felled sorry for her there with Theon. (not so much with the Sansa scene she could have said, we can see that after the war if the north will go independent or not)
All she wants is love but she can’t get it here, the place where she wants it.
Jon Snowed,
I hope he survives till the end.
Dany doesn’t need to go insane, I think it’s important to recognise that, she just needs to slip and let her impulses take control. I wouldn’t call Cersei insane either but both her and Dany are capable of doing horrible things in pursuit of power.
Adrianacandle,
No problem! The more we discuss, the better:) Another soft heart awaiting to be crushed by the endgame;)
BranStark,
Yeah, I hope you’re right about Daenerys.
Adrianacandle,
I liked Dany and Jon’s scene in the crypts too. I’m wondering about some things, though: if Dany hadn’t decided to visit Jon in the crypts, when would he have told her the secret about his ancestry? Would he have postponed it to after the battle, assuming they both survived? He knew the dead were fast approaching, so shouldn’t he have taken the initiative to seek her out that night and tell her? Or was he thinking he could perhaps keep it a secret indefinitely, and just hope that Bran and Sam would not reveal it either?
Jon Snowed,
This. Nobody thinks she goes insane, I think she will snap shortly and can’t take back the mistake she makes then, and she feel shit herself after that.
Like how you sometimes a kid keeps on nagging his mom, his mom flips out and screams to the kids, the kid cries, and later the mom feels shit herself for doing that. (maybe a simple comparison)
I think Dany will fuck something up, and she can’t take it back and she has to live with those consequences.
D&D know the ending for all the major characters and GRRM recently confirmed the ending will be what he told them so I’d say it’s very unlikely to be different for Cersei as she’s a major character. I do see room for details to differ but if Jamie/Tyrion kill Cersei in the books they very likely will in the show, only the method/dialogue is likely to be different.
We do know the endings for minor characters like the Hound have not yet been defined though so likely D&D will have creative influence.
BranStark,
Maybe in the battle of Winterfell in Episode 3, Jon will have yet another brush with death–Rhaegal (if he’s riding him) might get hit, for instance. Then Dany will realize how much she really values Jon, both as her lover and her only surviving relative. And she might rethink her response to his reveal and her priorities might start to change. Or maybe I’m just being too hopeful.
The person who leaked the exact time and content of the trailer stated that it contains stuff only from the first three episodes. We’ve also heard the final three episodes have been given extra secrecy (source – James Hibberd), presumably not to spoil who survives the battle at Winterfell but also to ensure nobody works out the ending.
I forgot to add that Sam’s little speech about Death = Forgetting/Being Forgotten very directly bolsters this interpretation of his role in the narrative. If you’re scratching your head about why that was included, there’s your explanation: It’s groundwork for one of the final scenes in the series, perhaps THE final scene, to be Archmaester Sam scratching away with his quill – or better, doing beautiful calligraphy fir the ages – with a voiceover about keeping alive the memory of those who gave their all in the War for the Dawn.
Lunaselene,
I wish she was that monster people think she is.. 🙂
kevin1989,
Do you see how ridiculous your point was above? –> Nope.
Because I have heard far too many Dany hatred statements right from season 4 and had to vent it out. She burning king’s landing is probable ( I would hate her and will accept that everyone else is right to state that she is mad) .. but not definite. She saving people’s asses has already happened multiple times.
kevin1989,
Welllllllllll, I don’t think she will. Not on purpose and not intentionally…
Milutin,
Yes, we’ll be crushed together! 😉
Lunaselene,
Yeah, I don’t know! To me, it didn’t look like Jon had a plan on how to deal with that other than No Eye Contact with Aunt Dany. But when Dany sought him out in the crypts, found him brooding in front of Lyanna’s statue and she thought Rhaegar raped Lyanna, I think that tipped it for Jon, who knew the real story. If that moment didn’t happen, if Dany didn’t find him, I think Jon would have told her sooner or later after that battle was done. But I wonder how Dany would feel about that, if Jon didn’t tell her before.
Anyway, I think on the sooner side would be better – had Dany learned it from anyone else (and especially if it were revealed abruptly and in public – if somebody tried to push Jon’s claim), I think that would have been so much worse and could possibly feel like a betrayal.
I always have to shake my head and laugh at the persecution complex of diehard Dany stans.
Sorry to have to be the bearer of bad news, but ANY character – including Your Favorite, whoever that might be – is fair game for criticism.
The one important piece left to Beric’s arc is dying in battle close enough to the Hound that Sandor must overcome his terror of fire and pick up the flaming sword, with which he will then do Something Important like save Sansa from being swarmed by wights.
Interesting. So, wouldn’t that mean the Battle of Winterfell is won by “the good guys”? There’s a shot of Sansa in the daytime that we haven’t seen yet. It looks like she’s still at Winterfell, but it’s hard to tell.
Same with Tyrion. Thats during the daytime as well and it looks to be in the Winterfell courtyard.
If they make it to the next sunrise and are still at Winterfell then I would think it has to mean they didn’t flee Winterfell.
Firannion,
“Sorry to have to be the bearer of bad news, but ANY character – including Your Favorite, whoever that might be – is fair game for criticism.”
That much is understood…” but she just didn’t react right.. her first thought is about throne and now she will kill Jon.. how can she think about throne.. how can she be not happy about a living family member..” pleaseeee…this all feels like Sansa-Arya feud last season, but everyone is just happy to say.. dany didn’t react right.. I have same complaints about people calling Job dumb.. and Sansa ” Smartest person ever”
Adrianacandle,
I also think he doesn’t have that many thoughts about banging his aunt because he was kinda okay with her hugging him and even held her hand.. and called her Dany.. I think they will both be alright.. Also what was the point of bringing up her ” I can’t have children” and succession multiple times last season…. and as of now.. she isn’t pregnant. I think there will be friction but at the end of the day they will both be fine with each other.
BranStark,
I’m starting to think that Jon and Dany will get married in secret if they find out Dany is pregnant, just like Lyanna and Rhaegar…most likely with similarly tragic consequences.
Mr Derp,
I’m starting to think that Jon and Dany will get married in secret if they find out Dany is pregnant, just like Lyanna and Rhaegar…most likely with similarly tragic consequences.
I am assuming that they will keep the secret about jon’s parentage to themselves until they figure it out amongst themselves ..
Also it’s so satisfying to know that Jon knows that his mother cared… and loved him..
Adrianacandle,
The problem with Dany winning over The North through her actions is that anything she does now is likely to be matched by Jon.
He’ll be leading the charge in battle too. He’ll be wielding a dragon too. He has a claim to rule the Seven Kingdoms too. And post battle, her military advantage may have eroded as well.
So even if the North is grateful to her for her exploits, they will have another equally qualified option in Jon, with whom they have a greater connection.
I think the Northern standpoint was probably illustrated by Sansa in her scene with Dany. Although she was willing to express gratitude for Dany’s help and even share a joke, she’s not going to give up on the issue of Northern self-determination.
In this season’s premiere Tyrion said to the gathered lords, “If anyone survives the war to come, we’ll have Jon Snow to thank”. That line stood out to me at the time, because it immediately sounded like a major own goal coming from Dany’s Hand, especially knowing what we viewers knew about Jon.
He was trying to help Jon out and pacify his disgruntled bannermen, for all of their sake; but he may have inadvertently predicted the theft of Dany’s post-war thunder.
Firannion,
I agree he will defend the little bird, but I never connected the flaming sword, good call on that. I think he still has something to wrap up before his story ends however. (Frankenbro).
BranStark,
While I have hope Jon and Dany will come together again, I think Jon’s love for Dany is definitely in conflict with his upset over the woman he loves being a blood relation (and he probably wouldn’t love having three Lonely Island songs apply to him, including ‘I Just Had Sex’ followed by ‘I F*cked My Aunt’). Per Bryan Cogman, Jon’s definitely upset about his girlfriend being his aunt but Emilia Clarke says Daenerys is a-okay with that part at least 😉
But I think, if Jon and Dany survive, the fight against the army of the dead will probably change a lot and put things into sharper focus. Maybe, as MrDerp says, they’ll have that shotgun wedding if they find out Dany’s pregnant – only for things to end horribly 😉
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
Perhaps – I think there’s an excellent chance the North still won’t want Dany as their ruler but I think seeing her in battle will go a long way to changing their perspectives of her, especially for the remaining survivors.
Yes, Sansa is probably 99% right that the North will want independence and exactly for the reasons she said but I don’t know how well the North will fare on its own. It’ll be a war-torn, ravaged, scoured country without the resources it needs to rebuild and support a population. Independence may not be the North’s best option post-war, at least not for a while.
I know I keep bringing this up and the show will probably never mention it again but Dany still has access to Meereen as its queen and there are resources there. Also, if she does succeed in taking the Iron Throne, Dany would perhaps have access to resources in other parts of Westeros to help rebuild the North. If it were part of the Seven Kingdoms, I’d imagine the North would be under her protection and she would be obligated to help rebuild it – and not only after she’s addressed Westeros issues first, as may be the case if the North were just in a friendly alliance with Westeros. But I think the North is definitely going to need help to rebuild.
Jon does have the better claim but at this point, Jon doesn’t seem to want any crown at all. Something significant would have to compel him to take it now. Additionally, Westeros’s ability to help the North rebuild would probably depend on in what shape the rest of Westeros is in after the war. Across the Narrow Sea might be the only remaining option.
So I don’t know if independence is the best option for the North post-war when it’ll need the south and/or east to rebuild itself. It might need Dany’s connections.
I thought this was a great episode, one of the best – it make me laugh, smile and cry which is all you want as a viewer. My nails have taken a beating though, damn you D&D! Like everyone else I absolutely loved the Jenny of Oldstones song and can’t get it out of my head, I think the song is one of the main reasons we all loved this one.
My predictions:
1) Sam and Maester Wolkan are going to set up a hospital with Sam plunging a dragonglass shard into one of our main character’s hearts.
2) Jon to save Dany rather than the other way around.
3) Jon to be the main focus of the battle, following on from his central role in BotB and Hardhome. He will be saved by Ghost on the ground as well as by Tormund/Edd/Beric.
But what is Bran going to do? What are his capabilities? I, for one, I’m hoping he has more mental capacities and that he doesn’t start flying around on his chair!
BranStark,
Like I said I would not look at Dany like she is insane if that happen. But the words of Emilia made one thing clear, she is going to something people would hate her for it. So what is that about when she stated that she’s worry that that’s the last taste in peoples mouth of what dany is.
And yes people hate her for it since season 4, and that’s why I posted a long post where I look at it from Dany’s point of view and thinking what in her past could be a factor, and you can’t deny that dany never knew real love in her early years and that power was always a factor in the love that she got, and that’s pretty sad for a character who is trying to do her best and better the world and only wants love. If dany turn “a wrong turn” it’s sad and tragic, and not her being insane, we have Cersei already who went insane.
BranStark,
this was Emilia’s word of season 8 for Dany:
“It fucked me up. Knowing that is going to be a lasting flavor in someone’s mouth of what Daenerys is.”
Her being a hero will not be something that fuck Emilia up. Because that is what she expected every 7 seasons.
BranStark,
btw sorry if I went on to strong, that was not my intention.
BranStark,
ps. I have to react to this comment, nobody says that she didn’t react right, we say Jon feels like she didn’t react right. And for the story that matters, how he will feel about it and will react to it.
And still there is a chance even if it’s just 1% she goes after Jon. Yes probably not, it’s a big stretch and I think 99% it will not happen but still 1% it could.
I think the biggest chance what would happen is just that her mind is so busy with the news she got, that she can’t concentrate right and bran’s plan fails. Maybe because she was somewhere else with her mind, or because the NK is smarter and Dany will be the patsy that gets blamed.
I think we get some plottwist before the end.
and I hope you see I still like Dany as a character, we are just speculating with each other. That’s what fansites are for. Nobody knows the end so why not put every 1000 theories on the table.
Mr Derp,
Let’s hope for this outcome 😀
Sorry to keep bringing up Melisandre in what is more suitable in a pre-episode chat thread rather than recap, but…
We seem to have forgotten one tiny thing from some of those not very informative nighttime photos of green screen filming during the “55” they spent…
http://watchersonthewall.com/three-mysterious-warriors-ride-into-battle-on-game-of-thrones-season-8-action-shoot/
more speculation/questions than spoiler but I’ll cover anyway:
Clob,
The cave painting in Dragonstone had three “men” standing together – presumably against the AotD. The person on the left is holding his weapon in his left hand and seems to have something on his right hand/wrist (Jamie?). The person on the right seems to have the right side of his face erased out (Sandor?). The person in the middle is shorter than the other two figures (Jon?). Perhaps there will be three great champions of men…
JohnnyLaw,
Holy shit.
kevin1989,
That’s alright .. I was posting quite strongly as well because I had a horrible experience debating with a person saying Dany is wrong to have killed Khals in the sixth season.. and now that I think of it .. some ppl just rail you up by making such statements 🙂 . Yeah we can only speculate until we watch.. 🙂
Did anyone listen to James Hibberds podcast where he talks about next weeks episode? He confirms the battle will last eighty minutes and will begin immediately as the episode starts. It will not be all fighting but will essentially be following main characters trying to survive, we will see some fighting (Jon/Arya etc.) others trying to hide, others trying to flee and there won’t be a lot of dialogue. Essentially it will be a number of individual stories intertwined within the big battle. I would assume we follow Jon, Bran, Brienne, Jamie, Arya, Sansa, Dany, Tyrion and perhaps a few others who witness the deaths of secondary characters.
He also confirms without stating it that it will be all at Winterfell as expected.
I am also confident that the Hound will survive episode 3 and do battle with his brother in the second half of the season.
Jon Snowed,
Trust me, it’s not a popular newspaper. And they make Thrones stuff up as they go along. They come out with all sorts of far fetched stuff on a regular basis.
I rather doubt that Jaime will kill his sister.
If he does it will be a very Remus/Romulus moment so it would be dramatic and memorable. However, it is highly unlikely in my book.
I expect him to take action or participate in action to remove her as Queen. Jaime has always been about love and the well-being of the kingdom.
Maybe I am the only one but I’m thinking the Starks in the crypts may come to the aid of the living…not sure how or why other than they were honorable and good in life and when the need arises they will be honorable and good again.
Lots of folks dying next week but I’m with Tyrion, I think the living win…otherwise what are they going to do w/ the last 3 episodes???
Also, think this may have been the funniest episode of GoT all time between the back and forth between Beric, Arya & Hound / Sam, Jon & Edd / Tormund and everyone around the fire….I laughed out loud a number of times.
JohnnyLaw,
Thanks for mentioning the cave paintings because I think you’re correct and they’re meaningful. They also have the spiral symbol and what I think may be a map of the tunnels under Winterfell?
Agreed. Your suggestion it is Theon is simpler and is probably correct.
Has any one thought that the girl with the scar on her face is actually Melisandre.
Read an interesting related article in the Verge about the DuncanTheTall-Brienne connection, with a link to what GRRM said a few years back. Ties in nicely to your summary. The Brienne knighting scene really is quite a nice tie-in for fans of Dunk & Egg.
I don’t think so. You could be the first person in the world to suggest that. 😛
JerseyJeff,
I think the girl with the scar on her face looked that way to remind Davos of Shireen. Interesting thought though.
The music associated with Shireen is also playing during that scene, I believe.
It actually has me wondering if Davos will sacrifice himself to save her. Something that he wasn’t able to do for Shireen.
I “watched” the episode last night again in a manner I haven’t before. I was tired so I played it on my phone with earbuds. After a few minutes I closed my eyes and just listened. This episode being so play-like was about as perfect as it gets for simply listening. It really did feel like I was listening to an audio book. Of course from watching it several times already I had the images in my mind, but it was really soothing like a bedtime story. 🙂
Clob,
Make sure you don’t do the same thing with episode 3 unless you want to be scarred for life 🙂
Holy shit is right! Wow. Awesome if this turns out to be accurate. Great job as always Clob.
Sorry Johhny Law not Clob!
Sorry Johhny Law not Clob!
Queen of Nothing,
I see that was Johnny Law not Clob sorry!
Queen of Nothing,
This was speculated about quite a bit during the offseason. Here’s a link: http://watchersonthewall.com/smoke-and-flaming-swords-in-game-of-thrones-season-8-magheramorne-shoot/
Clob,
It really is soothing. Especially Pod’s singing at the end. I fell asleep the last two nights with it playing next to me on my ipad.
I really want to see this in action. Based on their current plan, this may or may not be after this episode, but I do think we can’t brush those paintings off. Especially with one of them obviously being a representation of a Jaime like figure. I bet you’re right about Sandor too. It would make so much sense to his story if he was holding one of the flaming swords.
Don’t forget that Dragonstone is where the Targaryen daughter who saw the future brought them when she saved them from the doom-so someone might have been seeing the future in that cave.
But then of course that makes me wonder why the NK has a beard. And now I’m nervous.
ramses,
That song will not get out of my head. Pods version is just heartbreaking.
To the people saying that the skeletons in the crypt would all, except a few of the most recent, have turned to dust:
“Depending on the environment, bones can last centuries or millennia. A recent find in Morocco had bones that date back 200,000 to 300,000 years, if the dating can be confirmed.” Also Richard III’s bones from 1485 were found in 2012 and he was buried in the ground.
Also, this is a show where the undead could climb on the ceiling of a cave. You think realism is a hindrance from making them do whatever they want to do? They’ll be able to toss the lid of the tomb off like it weighs nothing and then be an even match for strength in a sword fight 5 seconds later if it suits them.
You don’t even need that many of them down there if all the women and children are down there defenseless. They all die and then become part of the army themselves. If the bones go back 500 years and they have kids when they are 20 that’s 25 generations. Conservatively, five people per generation gets you 125 wights. Unchecked against a crowd of defenseless people? That’s a massacre.
The gap for me, or I should say one of them, is “why NOW?” Why wake up and amass an army after a thousand years? There is something more to the story.
And if all they want is annihilation of humans, why is he specifically after Bran? What is in 3ER’s memory that is so threatening, or conversely so valuable, to them? Either Bran still doesn’t know himself, or he has a reason for not telling people.
Is this a case of “leave one wolf [er, 3ER] alive, and the sheep [er, WWs] are never safe”…even if the rest of the human population is dead?
Aegon the IceDragon,
GRRM said that the show ending will be almost identical to the book ending except for tertiary characters. I’m sure some things will be different and much execution will be different, but we are going to see more similarities the closer we get to the end, according to George.
Bran says it’s not anything in Bran’s memory, it’s the very concept of Bran’s memory that he’s opposed to.
It also sounds like the show claims the Night King has been actively trying to kill the Three-Eyed Raven for a long time, as he references many past occupants of the position. That makes it sound like this isn’t really a case of him having gone away at all.
Leuf,
I think they probably cleared those old bones out and burned them or left them locked in boxes like Ned’s are. They aren’t stupid enough to leave them lying around. Loved this episode. Thank you for giving us more than just battle scenes. I hate to see the series end but at least we have 2 more books to look forward to and different characters may survive that will die in the TV series. Plus, does no one worry that the dragons may die?
Lady Highheart,
We know of one body that’s fairly recent and probably intact, Rickon’s, and I think it could be horror enough for one beloved character to rise from the dead. Ned’s bones were disassembled in a chest last time we saw them. Cat and Robb aren’t there at all, as far as I know. Book!Lyanna went North as a box of bones.
As for all the other Kings of Winter and their families, I’m sure some were buried intact, we do have precedent for a skeleton army in the show.
The show’s been very heavy-handed about the crypts, but whether it’s because of wighted Stark skeletons or an invasion (or escape) through the tunnels, I guess we’ll see.
Last episode was one of my all time favorites. Almost every major character in Winterfell the writing and pacing was done to perfection. I will always remember this episode as the episode that made me realilize how much I have invested in each of these characters over the last 10 years. Final 4 episodes remaining I am wreck because I believe some major supporting characters will die. It’s game of thrones what should we expect the unexpected. No character is safe and tomorrow I will watch and be destroyed when some of my favorite characters are killed.