Three Mysterious Warriors Ride into Battle on Game of Thrones Season 8 Action Shoot

Wall - Beyond Frozen Lake 7x06 (13) Jon Beric Tormund Sandor White Walkers Wights

Filming for the most extensive Game of Thrones battle ever may have wrapped last week but we’re still getting news from its two-and-a-half months shoot. This time, you’ll see three riders charging into battle with… well, we’d better get into the spoilers below!

Yesterday, Davy Orr shared the following leftover video from April 5. As it belongs to the Winterfell battle night shoot, it’s all so dark that the scene is pretty inscrutable, but it’s at least clear enough for us to realize that whatever is happening here is a big spoiler:

(At the risk of killing the ‘Magic of Cinema’ for anyone, I’ll preempt the observation that the riders are not charging at the army but safely passing between their lines: horse charges are achieved through clever camera usage and VFX, not by ‘actually’ trampling stuntmen.)

Apparently, at some point three warriors will ride into battle wielding flaming swords. That sounds like a spoiler of the highest degree—or rather, it would if we knew who these riders were. But we don’t. That doesn’t mean we can’t speculate, though!

Which side are these riders on? Has Beric taught Thoros’s trick to others? Maybe Jon and the Hound? Or could these be Volantene Red Priests who have come to aid Westeros at the behest of Melisandre? And is the sudden orange lighting flash indicative of dragonfire? If we’re really getting three flame sword-wielding heroes riding into battle with a dragon supporting them from above, that may be too epic for me to handle!

117 responses

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    1. Tha is so much! Is the light on the screen that goes up every so often a signal for where people are supposed to look? Not the bright light but the light dot almost like a giant pointer?

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    2. When I watched the video I had assumed it was Jon, Beric and Tormund/Jamie/Hound/Brienne etc.

      I will use spoilers for this but I believe it’s been covered in another Watchers Article

      Jamie and Brienne will fight the undead in Episode 4

      so could this be them however the Red Priests also make sense given the rumours

      that Melisandre will also be involved in that fight

      which were backed up afterwards by the actress posting a pic of her in costume set.

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    3. I have a feeling that might be a fake by HBO itself, like Kit and Emilia fooling around with dragon heads last season. In between the actual shooting they just gave three guy glowing sticks to have fun with and make us wreck our brains.

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    4. By the way for clarity I am avoiding spoilers but I watched this video on twitter and don’t mind set photos and speculation of what could be going on.

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    5. Sorry Luka are you certain this is from the Winterfell battle (presumably episode 3) and not episode 4 given what we know will happen there?

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    6. Jon Snowed: When I watched the video I had assumed it was Jon, Beric and Tormund/Jamie/Hound/Brienne etc.

      I think (ie: I’m just guessing) that it is unlikely that any of these three would be people who possess Valyrian steel weapons, or who might possess one by next season. Seems unlikely they would put those aside for flaming swords.

      Of course, even people with V-steel swords might want to sow fire among undead warriors, but I’d think they would find a way to do that from a distance instead of riding in.

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    7. The only people we have seen so far that have a flaming sword are Beric and Thoros, both associated with The Lord of Light, and I think we can presume there is some magic involved in igniting their swords. Having Sandor as one of the three does make sense as we started to sense a connection between him and TLoL back in season 7. I really don’t know who the other one could be though. Maybe Jon, given that he was resurrected by TLoL. Or perhaps a new character? One that comes back with Mel perhaps (a fighting priest)?

      Igniting your sword in this way just doesn’t seem like something you just “teach” someone, so to me it has to be someone connected with TLoL in some way.

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    8. Guest:
      I have a feeling that might be a fake by HBO itself, like Kit and Emilia fooling around with dragon heads last season. In between the actual shooting they just gave three guy glowing sticks to have fun with and make us wreck our brains.

      The ‘fake scene’ you mention involved the actors briefly messing around with a dragon head replica normally used for lighting reference (which we pointed out as such at the time.) This, on the other hand, is an expensive production with horses, lighting, pyrotechnics, dozens of extras, and many crew members, and they actually bothered to go through the entire shot. So no, that’s not an appropriate comparison at all. They wouldn’t waste away hundreds of thousands of dollars to mess with us.

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    9. Jon Snowed,

      If it does, that certain something we’ve heard about will happen as an aftermath of the battle, when evereone will be searching for their fallen friends.

      This, however, looks like the culmination of the battle. So, Luka is right – it should be Ep 3.

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    10. Luka Nieto,

      Nor all on the basis that somebody might be filming them from a distant hill at the exact moment they filmed this particular sequence.

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    11. Enharmony1625,

      Yeah, I found it interesting that red “priestesses” like Melisandre seem to get lousy reception of LoL broadcasts, and yet an agnostic like Sandor Clegane got crystal clear, high-def reception the first time he looked into the fireplace.

      Coincidence? I think not.

      He is the Lord’s Chosen. 🐓

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    12. Carey:
      Please be Jon, Jaime and Beric….

      All three appear to be using their right hand. The one on the right is tougher to be certain, but I still think it’s in the right hand.

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    13. I should edit/add to the above that Sandor’s fireplace visual was not his first encounter with the burning flames of the Lord of Light. There was also the time innocent six year-old Sandor was crying and screaming as his face was burning and smoking, transforming him into the angry Hound.

      (Salt and smoke, anyone?)

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    14. Thanks Inga, I have been avoiding detailed plot spoilers but heard about that one and understood it to be the only genuine leak but again I don’t have much context about how it goes down only that it appears reliable.

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    15. I hear you but referenced the other article published by this site and used spoiler coding to consider others. I don’t want to be spoiled either as I mentioned so felt I took appropriate steps.

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    16. Ten Bears,

      ‘Inga’ and ‘Jon Snowed’ appear to be referencing spoilers exclusively published by Watchers on the Wall, obtained through reliable sources, not supposed script summaries (which, you are right, wouldn’t be allowed here.) And ‘Jon Snowed’ tagged it properly, as it doesn’t directly pertain to the article. So everything was done by the book. You may have confused their comments for ‘leak talk’, but I don’t think it was, unless I’m missing something here.

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    17. Apollo:
      At least this reinforces the fact the “Lightbringer” is not in fact a fiery sword, now that they’re ten a penny

      Yup, it certainly makes it far less unique and leads me to believe that the Night King will not be killed by a literal flaming sword.

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    18. “…Or could these be Volantene Red Priests who have come to aid Westeros at the behest of Melisandre?…”

      New here. Just had to jump in. I agree that it’s likely Melisandre will be bringing the Red Priests back with her to Westeros. They’ll be needed regardless, but even more so since Cersei has reneged on her part of the bargain to provide soldiers.

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    19. Theons Richard,

      Or he’s given Heartsbane, though it doesn’t appear that VS matters when it comes to a flaming sword, so I don’t know. Does Sandor even still have the same sword from when he killed Beric?

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    20. Ten Bears,

      It also always struck me how Mel had to reach “rock bottom” in order to resurrect Jon. The simple “please” she utters when she tries to revive him is very telling of her desperation. It’s also interesting how that “drunk priest” Thoros was able to resurrect Beric so many times.

      I’m quite interested in what role Mel and potentially other followers of TLoL will have in S8 (besides dying at the hand(s) of Arya/Gendry 🙂 ).

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    21. I would think that the 3 candidates would have to be Jon, Beric, and Sandor, though there isn’t any specific evidence to back it up yet.

      The flaming swords don’t have to be done with Valyrian steel since Beric, as far as I know, doesn’t have a Valyrian steel sword.

      As others have said, Jon, Beric, and Sandor each have some connection with the Lord of Light, so that’s basically why I’m going with them as the candidates.

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    22. Am I imagining thing or does the right hand rider have the blazing sword in their LEFT hand?
      Who do we know who is left handed????????

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    23. Colin Armfield:
      Am I imagining thing or does the right hand rider have the blazing sword in their LEFT hand?
      Who do we know who is left handed????????

      I don’t know… I mentioned above that to me it looks like that one is probably in the right hand as well. I zoomed in and scrutinized… It is harder to tell than the other two but it seems like it’s being held more center with a couple movements slighly to the right side…. while riding toward the screen.

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    24. It just seems redundant to have a Valyrian Steel weapon also be a flaming weapon. Valyrian Steel kills White Walkers just fine without being on fire. And I know this was a disputed issue at one time, but I think it also kill wights.

      In any event, this is my favorite type of information – It’s not overly spoilerly, but it piques my interest and creates great speculation and conversation.

      I don’t really have a good guess as to who it could be. I’d think Beric would be one of them but the other two?

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    25. I am sure that Maisie said that she was having training for the shoot.
      Battle on horseback would need training.

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    26. When the three riders first flare up their swords, it appears to me (granted, on my tiny phone screen) that the one on the left has light blonde hair and is dressed in blue, whereas the armor on the other two looks much darker. Anyone else seeing this? Maybe it’s just Brienne-fangirl wishful thinking on my part.

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    27. Exciting!! I too took those orange flashes to be indicative of dragon fire so they have the right lighting for when they layer in some flames. I also think the person on the right may be holding the lightsaber, sorry, flaming sword, in their left hand.

      As cool as it is to see these flaming swords in action in battle (and to see the wights running like hell from them/dragon fire) I really hope that the final NK battle doesn’t come down to a magic flaming sword. I want that end battle to have so many layers to it – Bran’s weirnet/link to NK, Sam’s lore, Jon’s 1:1 vendetta and warrior skills, possibly others like Sandor, Arya and Brienne offering important diversionary tactics for the NKs white walker brethren. I have faith in D&D to deliver on this count. Just if there is a flaming sword involved, I hope it’s not the largest aspect of the battle. It would seem a bit gimmicky.

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    28. Che,

      I think it’ll be a team effort.. Bran trying to subdue him mentally while Jon, Arya and Dany and (possibly) the messengers of R’hllor do their part.

      I saw a guy on Twitter’s theory that the weirwood tree could be involved (by tying the NK to it and burning it). I kinda liked it TBH.

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    29. I for one don’t know if I necessarily want to see the NK defeated in a sword battle. Much like others don’t want to see Cleganebowl. To me, NK is scary as all hell because he hasn’t said a word and because other than Viserion, he has not needed any physical exertion, and no one has been able to get physically close to him. Do we really want to see a clunky actor in a ‘swordfight’ 1 v 1 against Jon? Personally I’d prefer to see him thinking he is safe/victorious, before he is burned to a crisp by a warging Bran, or an unsuspecting attack by Arya, etc.

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    30. Dolorous Methuselah,
      It does… but it also looks pretty cool in the dark. 😛

      Since it looks like all three are men that also appear to be leading in some capacity our options are reduced. If it’s not some new Red Priests we can probably safely list the most likely being Jon, Beric, Sandor, Jorah, Jaime, Tormund… That of course is five of the seven that went on the wight hunt. Brienne is an option too I guess.

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    31. Well I have watched it several times now.
      I am sure the person on the right is left handed, they also seem to be a head shorter than the middle horserider.
      It might be too much imagination but it really looks like Arya to me!

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    32. Colin Armfield,
      It’s still too inconclusive for me if I don’t force myself to see what I’d want to. Without being able to fully discern the angles and direction the person is facing at all times or how the sword is being held it’s impossible. They could even switch hands with it before or during the shot. Who knows. There’s a moment while riding away from camera when it does appear to be more on the right, or in a position that would be awkward in the left hand. The angle of view being left and rear of the rider makes it difficult though compared to the other two…
      I guess I’ve spent enough time on that though. Without another angle or more info we’ll just have to wait and see.

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    33. I think Sandor is one of them because he sits two feet higher than the others. Beric is one because he has a flaming sword and the other is someone using Thoros’ sword, probably Tormund although wildlings don’t fight on horseback. I agree a Valyrian sword doesn’t need fire. Jon is not one of the 3 because he never fights on horseback. He just stands in the middle of the battlefield with a sword and plot armor.

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    34. These clips are like rorschach tests. Everyone just sees what they want to see. I’ll leave the speculation aside until more info is available.

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    35. Rygritte: Jon is not one of the 3 because he never fights on horseback. He just stands in the middle of the battlefield with a sword and plot armor.

      Have we ever seen Tormund or Sandor fight on horseback?

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    36. If it is Arya with a burning sword
      Is it Needle with magic, or a new (forged by Gendry) sword?
      Can’t see Arya running round with Heartsbane, it’s bigger than she is!

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    37. Luka Nieto,

      Sorry for not covering my post with the spoiler tag and thank you for correcting that. Anyway, I haven’t revealed anything specific. But next time I’ll be more careful anyway.

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    38. Colin Armfield: Can’t see Arya running round with Heartsbane, it’s bigger than she is!

      That would look stupid like those ridiculously huge Final Fantasy type swords.
      I wouldn’t mind if Jaime gave her Widow’s Wail since he knows it came from Ice. She could give it a proper name. Even that longsword is probably too large for her though. She needs a smaller shortsword that she can be quick with but not as flimsy as Needle.

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    39. Hey no worries Ten Bears, I totally get it as I’m trying to remain unsullied too. I’m avoiding spoilers but ok with set photos/videos which allow plenty of room to speculate.

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    40. I picture Gendry meeting Jaime or Brienne and saying “I made that sword.”
      Then Sam giving him Heartsbane to re-make.

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    41. Colin Armfield:
      I picture Gendry meeting Jaime or Brienne and saying “I made that sword.”
      Then Sam giving him Heartsbane to re-make.

      He didn’t though. ? On the show it was some old Volantis smith Tywin hired, and while in the book it was Tobho Mott, Gendry was long gone from his shop by the time Tywin brought it in.

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    42. What if………………there is a way to ‘light up” other Valerian steel Swords with “Lightbringer”? Just thinking out loud. I think it would be cool to ‘share’ the power of “Lightbringer” with the other Valerian Swords.

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    43. Clob: It does… but it also looks pretty cool in the dark.

      Yes it does. I love stuff like this. Fighting at night with flaming swords? Yes, please.

      On the conversation about who (if anyone) takes out the NK – I’m holding out for Arya with the Vayrian Steel dagger. I’d also like for her to somehow get close to him using faceless men training. Maybe while a few of the other big gun good guys with V-steel swords take on the White Walker lieutenants. I can’t for the life of me think of anybody whose face she could wear that would allow her to approach him though. Maybe it’s just the stealth and fighting in the dark skills.

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    44. Dolorous Methuselah: Yes it does.I love stuff like this.Fighting at night with flaming swords?Yes, please.

      On the conversation about who (if anyone) takes out the NK – I’m holding out for Arya with the Vayrian Steel dagger.I’d also like for her to somehow get close to him using faceless men training.Maybe while a few of the other big gun good guys with V-steel swords take on the White Walker lieutenants.I can’t for the life of me think of anybody whose face she could wear that would allow her to approach him though.Maybe it’s just the stealth and fighting in the dark skills.

      The only face she could wear to get near enough to NK, is Bran’s, I think, but I don’t dare to think about, how she would get it.

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    45. cos alpha,

      Of course they did. And we’ll see him in S8.

      Kristian Nairn has stated recently how amazing and surprising S8 is, not sure how he’d know unless he’s shot or will shoot scenes.

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    46. I still have this evil desire/wish that a surprise hits that Brake’s NK is also out there as the (brother/son/father) to Furdik’s and they’re both leading half their army. The living barely beat the first and though they’re depleted they rejoice… and then boom, in comes the other with even greater forces and there’s just enough time to flee. 🙂

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    47. Clob: She don’t need no face for that.She’s the Super Ninja Assassin Warrior Princess!!

      That’s right!
      And she can put on that benign, hungry little girl act that she did with the doofus Frey soldier in S3e10. NK will go “pffft…harmless little girl”…and when it’s too late he’ll realize her VS dagger is slicing his throat. 👸🏻

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    48. Mr Derp,
      Sandor does in the books. I mentioned wildlings fight on the ground, but Tormund is a named character who saw Thoros’ flaming sword. I doubt it’s him or Jorah, but Tormund did want Gendry’s hammer. Maybe he wanted a discarded flaming sword, too.

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    49. Apollo,

      Unless it’s a similar situation to that of Jason Momoa who hung out with D&D and Kit and was apparently told at least some points of the ending. I don’t think many are expecting Drogo to make a return, so maybe Nairn was just hanging out? Or Isaac told him (them being good friends)?

      However, I can see them twisting that knife in us by making us witness Hodor as a wight so.. 🙁

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    50. Or could these be Volantene Red Priests who have come to aid Westeros at the behest of Melisandre?

      Going way back to this…
      Would it really be that much of a surprise if ‘warriors of the red temple’ show up to aid in the war? There are temples all over Essos that do supposedly train soldiers as well as priests/priestesses (I’m going to believe that Thoros learned the flaming sword from them..). They’ve definitely shown an interest in those involved, as we’ve seen in Melisandre, Thoros and the members in Essos for Daenerys. Mel’s words did seem to indicate she could be going for assistance. Why else would she go all the way to Volantis when she knows she is to come back and die in Westeros? I am curious to see if a rather small group of these warriors does show up. Would they have a uniformed armor? Do they have special skills other than flaming swords? Mel told Jon, “I’m not a soldier,” before BotB when he came to see her after the war council. I want to see what the soldiers of R’hllor are like! …. and okay, maybe I do have some visions of LotR Elves swirling around in my nutty mind…

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    51. Enharmony1625: It also always struck me how Mel had to reach “rock bottom” in order to resurrect Jon. The simple “please” she utters when she tries to revive him is very telling of her desperation. It’s also interesting how that “drunk priest” Thoros was able to resurrect Beric so many times.

      The red religion is the only religion we have seen that is effective and can actually do things. How is revivifying dead people to a high level of function (not the low level of wights) brought about? What other non-human powers do Mel and red clergy have?

      If the red religion was established to carry through the ages knowledge of how to oppose the Others and to motivate the Valeryians to develop a mobile hot fire delivery system, what else does the red religion know? We will only know that if further ASoIaF volumes cover that topic.

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    52. Ten Bears: He (Sandor Clegane) is the Lord’s Chosen. 🐓

      He also may have been revived from the dead, instead of being nursed back to health, along with the known previously dead Beric and Jon.

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    53. Marlana: The red religion is the only religion we have seen that is effective and can actually do things.How is revivifying dead people to a high level of function (not the low level of wights) brought about?What other non-human powers do Mel and red clergy have?

      It certainly sounds like we might get some answers on this in TWoW. As Martin said last year in an interview,

      Beric is a fire wight, which suggests he intends to explore this further.

      As for other powers possessed by Mel, she does have the ability of prophecy (even though she frequently misinterprets them). And let’s not forget (or maybe we should forget..) her glamour. She also did tell Jon that she can help in the war against the Night King, so I’m interested to see if she has other tricks up her red sleeves.

      Also, I’ll elaborate a little on what I meant when I said Mel had to hit rock bottom so she could revive Jon. Prior to Stannis’ defeat, she was cocky and arrogant in her faith, but in her more vulnerable state, her faith was ironically more genuine even though she questioned whether the LoL ever spoke to her. There is a parallel with Thoros who brought Beric back because he was his friend, not because Thoros himself was a red priest and he necessarily believed in the words. It was a genuine act of wanting to reclaim the life of his friend.

      I doubt this will be explored much in the show given the time we have left, but hopefully in the books they will be.

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    54. Ryan,

      Since S6, the part of the Night King has been played by a stuntman specifically for his ability to fight. He was same actor that played the White Walker who fought Jon at Hardhomme. I think they changed the NK actor for the purpose of future fight scenes.

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    55. Marlana: The red religion is the only religion we have seen that is effective and can actually do things

      I’ve always thought that this was a fascinating potential discussion that doesn’t get that much attention.

      I’d say that several of the GoT religions have shown some effectiveness. The old gods have the whole weirwood tree thing, the greenseeing and the warging. The many faced god has the facechanging. Whatever religion Maggie the Frog had (wood-witchcraft?) had prophecy. The drowned god had Patchface’s prophecy (in the books at least). Mirri Maz Durr’s religion has some pretty effective blood magic. Those guys that ran the house of the undying had some pretty good prophecy going.

      Sometimes it seems like the only religion that DIDN”T show any magical effectiveness was the seven. Even with them, it looked for awhile that trial by combat worked with Tyrion’s first trial proving his innocence in the Bran attack. But that fell apart quickly with his second trial by combat and Sandor’s trial by combat which at least technically reached the wrong result.

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    56. Dolorous Methuselah,

      Yes, and Mirri Maz Durr studied with adepts of several magics and claimed magics other than those of her religion.

      I should have said above that the red religion is the only one known to restore life, although now we know that it did not bring humans back to life, but reanimated the dead. Mirri Maz Durr probably prevented death by substituting existing without awareness.

      The red religion and those you mention above seem to me to be dependent on Planetos’ environment itself. I want to know what is the science of Westeros that supports those abilities.

      GRRM stated that there is no magic, only science we don’t know yet. I hope he gives the science fiction explanation for the magics he invented.

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    57. Enharmony1625,

      That’s also possible, but would mean one of the crew or actors had breached their non disclosure agreement, and Nairn blathering to the press could get them into even more trouble. So I’m inclined to think he has first hand knowledge.

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    58. Colin Armfield:
      Am I imagining thing or does the right hand rider have the blazing sword in their LEFT hand?
      Who do we know who is left handed????????

      My mum! I thought she’d been a bit secretive lately 😉

      Pigeon:
      I can conclusively say that the Blobs are at it again, with Blob #1, #2, and #3 sitting atop their horse blobs.

      Oi that’s my mum you’re talking about! 😉

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    59. Pigeon:
      I can conclusively say that the Blobs are at it again, with Blob #1, #2, and #3 sitting atop their horse blobs.

      …And I’ve heard fans are “shipping” Blob #1 and Blob #3.

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    60. Loosehead:
      Obviously its Obi-Wan Kenobi, Luke Skywalker and Qui-Gon Jin with their lightsabers.

      More likely Darth Vader, Kylo Ren and Darth Maul. They are red after all 😊

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    61. Marlana: He also may have been revived from the dead, instead of being nursed back to health, along with the known previously dead Beric and Jon.

      Marlana: I should have said above that the red religion is the only one known to restore life

      Dolorous Methuselah: Sometimes it seems like the only religion that DIDN”T show any magical effectiveness was the seven

      I think the show tried to convey that Sandor was not dead since Brother Ray had the lines, “…I thought you’d been dead for days,” and “I was going to give you a proper burial and then you coughed. Ha! I nearly shit myself…”

      but anyway… IF Sandor was resurrected/animated it would have been in the presence of those following the Faith of the Seven. Elder Brother leads a septry on the Quiet Isle. Brother Meribald didn’t have anything to do with Sandor but he also was a Septon. On the show Brother Ray and his followers were FotS. That doesn’t rule out another “force” from interposing despite the FotS people present I suppose. If Elder Brother (or Brother Ray) was the one buy his side at the time, he would believe it was his faith/god(s) that brought him back though.

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    62. Clob: Mel’s words did seem to indicate she could be going for assistance. Why else would she go all the way to Volantis when she knows she is to come back and die in Westeros?

      That’s the way I took her words. That she’s coming back with the other Red Priests. If she dies during battle, what happens – will she change to 400 year-old Mel or will she stay in the young body as long as she has on her magic youth ruby? I kind of imagine her death, at Arya’s hand, much like that of the Wicked Witch of the West: (words of the Wicked Witch) “You cursed brat … ooooo, I’m melting, I’m melting. Oh, what a world, what a world. Who would have thought a good little girl like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness??? oooo.” Don’t moan, it fits, that’s my self-induced chuckle for the day.

      I only started thinking of this when contemplating the heart-wrenching idea of seeing a wight-Hodor. I’m barely over his death as it is – seeing an icy-eyed Hodor trudging along with the rest of them will mean buckets of tears again.

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    63. Which is exactly why we’ll see it happen- because it’ll rip what remains of our hearts into even smaller pieces. Who knows, they might even stretch it out and have him kill one of the central characters. It is GOT after all.

      I had a thought that Hodor could very well be Brans Achilles heel.. maybe the NK will use him against Bran in some way. 😱

      Thronetender:

      I only started thinking of this when contemplating the heart-wrenching idea of seeing a wight-Hodor. I’m barely over his death as it is – seeing an icy-eyed Hodor trudging along with the rest of them will mean buckets of tears again.

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    64. Apollo: maybe the NK will use him against Bran in some way.

      Perhaps he’ll try to but won’t realize the strength of the bond they have and Bran will be able to get through to even undead Hodor. I don’t know…
      I don’t really have that strong of a feeling that we’ll see him again. Last year beyond the Wall might have been a perfect time to have him near the NK. If the NK does know many things it could have shown that he knew Jon would recognize Hodor.
      Maybe Kristian knows things about the ending but he is very close to the cast & crew and they’d trust him with info.

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    65. Clob,

      True, and if this were any other season I’d be inclined to agree.

      But look at the steps the show are taking to ensure there is absolutely no possibility of leaks coming from set. So I just can’t picture the cast or crew spilling tidbits with Kristian over a few pints, and then for him to give some (albeit mild) hints at a Comicon. Unless it’s all part of a well oiled PR machine..

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    66. Clob,

      S6e7 Brother Ray to Sandor (excerpts):

      “there’s a reason you’re still here…the gods aren’t done with you yet.”

      “Oh, there’s plenty of pious sons of bitches who think they know the word of god or gods. I don’t.
      I don’t even know their real names. Maybe it is the Seven. Or maybe it’s the old gods. Or maybe it’s the Lord of Light. Or maybe they’re all the same f*cking thing. I don’t know.”

      “What matters, I believe, is that there’s something greater than us. And whatever it is, it’s got plans for Sandor Clegane.”

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    67. Apollo,
      Probably right.
      If he is back as a wight I’m not sure how I’d want it to play out though. It would be heart-wrenching to have to see him ‘killed’ again but a little good to see him released from that grip. Wight are just unthinking shells though so it wouldn’t really be him. That’s why I’d kind of want Bran to be able to connect with him, be able to thank him and get the feeling that Hodor is okay with Bran and what he’d unintentionally done to him… I’m not sure how they could do that beyond just expression…

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    68. I don’t know if Hodor will or won’t come back, but I would be more inclined to assume that we will see some previously deceased characters as wights because it makes the fight between the living and the dead a bit more complicated than just a good guys vs. bad guys showdown.

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    69. Ten Bears: Brother Ray to Sandor

      If Sandor is going to be something as important in the books as you think he is on the show then that relationship is a question. Brother Ray is just sort of an amalgamation of mostly Elder Brother with aspects of Septon Meribald. Still, I’m not so sure how book!Sandor gets to show!Sandor’s current point when actions are likely to be vastly different. Elder Brother is a devout follower of the Seven while all the other brothers do not speak (Quiet Isle). He wouldn’t be one to suggest some other god is the right one or one of those resurrected Sandor. I also don’t think Brother Ray’s words about the gods not being done with him meant he was resurrected, just that he wasn’t allowed to die while Ray nursed him back to health, like he said he did.

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    70. Clob,

      Oh man, if only we’d get such a happy conclusion 🙂 You know that ain’t gonna happen though right? It’s gonna be brutal.

      Hey- maybe Bran will use Hodor one last time to get to the NK. so many possibilities to screw with our emotions.

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    71. I think Jaime and Brienne are a very strong possibility, considering Jaime dreams of the two wielding flaming swords against the dead. Considering they have twin swords, I believe that if one has a flaming sword the other is also likely to.

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    72. Mr Derp:
      I don’t know if Hodor will or won’t come back, but I would be more inclined to assume that we will see some previously deceased characters as wights because it makes the fight between the living and the dead a bit more complicated than just a good guys vs. bad guys showdown.

      I personally would be more torn up to see a wightified Edd than a wightified Hodor, since we know Hodor’s already lost.

      The notion that Bran might be able to warg Hodor while he’s close by the NK is somewhat intriguing to me, since I’m still clinging to the ‘must extract the shard to deactivate’ theory. Someone large, heavy and unkillable to pin the NK down long enough for someone to nip in and perform the shardectomy surgery might be a handy thing to have. Question is: Can the NK ‘unraise’ one wight at a time, without ‘unraising’ them all?

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    73. Marlana: GRRM stated that there is no magic, only science we don’t know yet. I hope he gives the science fiction explanation for the magics he invented.

      For a long time I was hoping for a storyline in either the books or the show (or both) which involved both science (in the form of the maesters) and magic – either in an adversarial way or getting the two kind of muddled. At this late date in the show, it’s pretty sure we won’t get anything like that, so I doubt we see it in the books either.

      We do know that some maesters dabbled in things that look a lot like magic. Qyburn seems to have either reanimated a dead Mountain or transformed a dying Mountain into something resembling the undead. And in the books Marwyn seems to have dabbled on the magic side and the glass candles were lit, etc.

      I’d have loved to see an exploration of these things in some format or other. Doesn’t look like we’ll get to see that but at least we can still toss it around on various forums.

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    74. We don’t really know what happend to Benjen, that he isn’t really alive, isn’t really wight, but something between and hasn’t lost his mind, nor his soul.
      What about this could happen to Hodor, too? So he would be able to help.
      I can’t imagine, that he would be full of revenge because of his mind-damaging, he was for and after a good-willing and good-hearted person, perhaps that strong inside, that even NK can’t change him.

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    75. i’m a poor man today. trying to see the video in a new tab doesn’t work. lady bluechicken of house twitter does not like me as it seems. or maybe, it’s just ser fox of house browser being completely drunk. i’ll find out about their conspiracy and punish them.

      anyway, i’m out of the game of speculating about the identities of the riders with flaming swords. but i want to add something to some topics mentioned here. sorry for not linking to the OPs, but the scrolling would break my fingers, and my thoughts are not of such an importance… the writers of the postings may pick up what i add or not.

      # Sandor’s sword. question was: does he still have the sword he had before he met Brienne? answer is “no”. he left Brother Ray’s camp with an axe. with nothing else. at least with an axe he used for work in a way Brother ray had never seen before.

      # Hodor. i cannot imagine the level of sadism it needs to make us watch Hodor being part of the AotD – and we do not hear this very word just one time out of his mouth. no Hodoring, not even ex-Hodoring – nothing. it would force Burlington Bar into being a real time synchro studio and leave the rest of the world being a pile of brain wrecks.

      just, because it is such a sadist idea i’m afraid Hodor will return. there’s so much potential in bringing him back.

      first of all, he must be the one to kill Bran. no one else has the “right”! he is the one to make us cry like little children when it happens. and this is what DD love to do to us, don’t they? and wouldn’t it be nice if one of our heroes fails at trying to save Bran? some Jamie Lannister for example?
      (i know, i’m entering the swamps of fan fiction now. have less inspiring discussion points next time, and i won’t do it again 😉 )

      Bran being dead means the AotD are close to the win. times are desperate. and desperate times need ugly scripts. how can the script get more ugly than wrecking all the family values of the Starks in one decision they have to make? i love the idea of

      # Arya kills the NK wearing some face.

      Arya: “i’ll kill that king of dead motherf*ckers multiple times in a row for this! i swear!”
      Sansa: “how do you want to get close to him?”
      Arya: “i will be what he always wanted to take control of.”
      Sansa: ” you could as well throw all of the bones in the crypt at him!”
      Arya: “we did that yesterday. didn’t work.”

      i really meant: desperate times.

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    76. death by chickenfire: trying to see the video in a new tab doesn’t work. lady bluechicken of house twitter does not like me as it seems. or maybe, it’s just ser fox of house browser being completely drunk.

      You should try switching your allegiances and bending the knee to House Google of Chrome.

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    77. Clob,

      “….Still, I’m not so sure how book!Sandor gets to show!Sandor’s current point when actions are likely to be vastly different.”
      __________________
      And you probably never will.

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    78. Ten Bears:
      Clob,

      “….Still, I’m not so sure how book!Sandor gets to show!Sandor’s current point when actions are likely to be vastly different.”
      __________________ And you probably never will.

      I know, right. 🙁

      I think the hints were pretty clear that George’s “gravedigger” guy was Sandor. I’ve sometimes wondered if that actually was or is going to be the last he writes of him. Yeah, it would seem odd for that to be it, but what if his intent was to just let the reader know that he did survive and is now living his life away from politics and battles. Sort of a ‘happy ending’ for Sandor… I do expect him to reappear in the books (if finished) but there are those ‘what if’ thoughts about it.

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    79. Dolorous Methuselah: For a long time I was hoping for a storyline in either the books or the show (or both) which involved both science (in the form of the maesters) and magic – either in an adversarial way or getting the two kind of muddled.

      There is science outside of the maesters. For example, why does V-steel kill Others? I propose Others are silicon based and V-steel contains silicon, as does obsidian. The silicon disrupts the forces holding Others together, and they dissolve into a mist. By now, there is no time for the show to delve into science, only made-up magic. The books could, but will the books be published?

      Other magic, I feel, is related to the atmosphere/environment of Planetos, another topic not likely to be revealed. So, in addition to the topics you propose, there is lots more magic to be explained. Another area of disappointment for fans.

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    80. cos alpha: We don’t really know what happend to Benjen, that he isn’t really alive, isn’t really wight, but something between and hasn’t lost his mind, nor his soul.

      On YouTube, Tony Teflon describes the moment when Benjen realizes he is dead. After Benjen rescues Bran and Meera from the cave and kills the wights chasing them, then later when talking about what happened with B + M, the camera shows Benjen’s face, and the look of realization passes over Benjen’s features. It hits he that he is actually dead.

      If this is true, Benjen would be a third kind of wight – not WWwight, not red wight like Jon and Beric, dead and something else. So what is it about Planetos that provides for dead bodies to be activated? And in different ways.

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    81. Clob: If Sandor is going to be something as important in the books as you think he is on the show then that relationship is a question.Brother Ray is just sort of an amalgamation of mostly Elder Brother with aspects of Septon Meribald.Still, I’m not so sure how book!Sandor gets to show!Sandor’s current point when actions are likely to be vastly different.Elder Brother is a devout follower of the Seven while all the other brothers do not speak (Quiet Isle).He wouldn’t be one to suggest some other god is the right one or one of those resurrected Sandor.I also don’t think Brother Ray’s words about the gods not being done with him meant he was resurrected, just that he wasn’t allowed to die while Ray nursed him back to health, like he said he did.

      I think the Hound will play a big role in the book as well. I don’t think he will ever be particularly religious in the sense that he will be drawn to one or another of the major faiths of Westeros or Essos.

      I think he will likely still run into Beric and Thoros and may even have a vision in the flames but I don’t think that will particularly make him take to the red god any more than he takes to any other religion. But I think he will go north to try to do what he can do to stem the tide and help as many people as he can help.

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    82. Dolorous Methuselah:
      “I think the Hound will play a big role in the book as well. I don’t think he will ever be particularly religious in the sense that he will be drawn to one or another of the major faiths of Westeros or Essos.

      I think he will likely still run into Beric and Thoros and may even have a vision in the flames but I don’t think that will particularly make him take to the red god any more than he takes to any other religion…”

      ____________________
      Yeah, I don’t think Sandor will ever be a religious fanatic, even though the Red God seems to have plans for him and provided him with a crystal clear vision in the flames in S7e1.

      As Sandor himself summed up his theological philosophy in S7e6:
      “Every Lord I’ve ever met has been a c*nt. Can’t see why the Lord of Light should be any different.”

      P.S. Does the Hound get the best lines, or is it just that Rory McCann turns every line into pure gold?

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    83. Guest,

      Last year when we saw Jon and Danny playing with the dragon heads was in episode 5 of season 7 when Jon and drogon met. I don’t think those photos were fake and I don’t think these new ones are either. The video is taken from really far away along with it being a night shoot and not to mention how expensive it would be having this of all the set leaks be the fake. This is just my opinion on the new video. I stand strong on the Jon and Danny pics from last season though.

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    84. I simply can’t believe that in 100+ comments, this one point hasn’t been made:

      Wait for it….
      Wait for it….
      Hodor.

      BTW, LOve all the comments/comment makers here! Awesome reading. Can’t wait S8!

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    85. This sounds like a pretty climactic moment and brings a possible interpretation of the “three heads of the dragon” to mind. Considering that Beric is dead in the books and I doubt he’ll survive too far into the climax (that would be a deviation on a whole other level), I actually don’t think he’ll be one of them, but I would wager they made the decision to keep him around this long in order to have an easier way of making this moment happen than however the equivalent scene may unfold in the books (which will undoubtedly be more complicated in the book narrative than the show narrative). After all, the season Beric was introduced was also the first season D&D sat down with GRRM to discuss the ending.

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