UPDATED: The episode title for the Game of Thrones season 7 finale has been revealed

JonSnow

The title for Game of Thrones season 7 episode 7 has been released … and boy, do I hope it implies what I think it does!

According to Sky Atlantic, which airs Game of Thrones in the UK, the name for the season 7 finale will be “The Dragon and the Wolf.” The big question now is, eh … which dragon and wolf are we talking about, here? I confess my knee-jerk reaction was to think of Daenerys and Jon but, as Jon is always quick to point out, he is no Stark. Might the title, instead, be referring to Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark? Gilly did unintentionally reveal a major twist regarding Rhaegar’s marriage to Elia a few episodes ago. Dare we hope for a fully clarified and openly stated R+L=J reveal? Perhaps another of Bran’s flashback-visions? We’ve got less than a week to wait to find out.

Thank you to reader Amit for sending us this update!

 

UPDATE: HBO has officially confirmed that the season 7 finale is titled “The Dragon and the Wolf,” and that the total running time is 79 minutes, and 43 seconds.

317 responses

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    1. I´m swooning…!
      I´m fainting…!
      I can´t wait!

      (That sad curly boy can mention that hes not a stark as often as he likes, he was raised my wolfes, he is a wolf.)

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    2. Mr Fixit:
      It’s obviously a clip show dedicated to Viserion and Grey Wind. Hence, The Dragon and the Wolf.

      🙂 I’m not sure they could get a whole show out of clips of those two. Would have to put in a lot of filler connecting scenes.

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    3. I confess my knee-jerk reaction was to think of Daenerys and Jon but, as Jon is always quick to point out, he is no Stark. Might the title, instead, be referring to Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark?

      Episode titles in this show often have more than one meaning. It could be both those things and more.

      And Stark or not, Jon’s already called the White Wolf.

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    4. I really hope they dont try and fudge it. You can’t have Jon be a legitimate Targ and a Stark wolf at the same time. The same way the Starks are wolves and not trouts. Cat will be rolling in her watery grave, she was right about Jon.

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    5. Really excited!

      Not sure if this counts as a spoiler so masking just in case.

      Will we finally see the actress in the long brown wig who was pictured with Sophie and Kit?

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    6. Dee Stark:
      IS THIS CONFIRMED

      or is this another “Death is the Enemy” thing.

      We didn’t report on “Death is the Enemy”, which was just a fan guess. We did report on this. It’s as confirmed as can be; it comes from a GOT broadcaster 😉

      Rhaegar was a rolling stone,

      That was Alys Karstark. We saw her in a few episodes already.

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    7. Theon Baratheon,

      Wouldn’t “(A/The Song of) Ice and Fire” work better for a series finale, not this season finale? Or perhaps for the second to last episode, or whenever the main conflict comes to a head. The last one could be A Dream of Spring, maybe.

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    8. My first guess was also Dany and Jon, but Rhaegar and Lyanna makes more sense. Or like tptwp said above, could be the alliance of the Houses maybe? Jon did “bend the knee” technically to Dany. An alliance of the Wolf and the Dragon might worry Cersei more than the White Walkers?

      I can’t wait to see next week, all those characters in one place…And the longest episode ever! Might need a few bottles of wine for this episode.

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    9. Yup, it refers to Rhaegar and Lyanna, I think. It’s the part I am most looking forward to 🙂 .

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    10. Finally a good title.I had resigned myself that it would be The Dragonpit or something like that lol.This has at least three meanings that I can think of.I would have gone with a song of ice and fire but this fits too.I can wait until season 8 for that one.

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    11. Question that’s bugging me… why wouldn’t Jon bring Ghost to the meeting?

      Cersei has her nuke in the Mountain and Dany obviously has THE nuke in Drogon. Ghost may not be a nuke but he’s a heck of a heat seeking missile.

      And I know… budgets and all… but that just seems too obvious.

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    12. They’re probably saving ‘A Song of Ice & Fire’ for the last season/episode, to be fair.

      I can’t speak for others obviously. But hope this finale goes some way to rescuing what for me has been (bar some great dragon moments and well played blossoming of the relationship between Dany & Jon) a really disappointing season. :^(

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    13. Jenny,

      I was expecting the title to be The Dragonpit too, after “Beyond the Wall” lol. This is much better. Yeah, it could refer to Rhaegar/ Lyanna, Jon/Dany and Jon himself, he is both dragon and wolf.

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    14. After all the episode title guessing I’m kind of kicking myself for not coming up with this one.

      I usually prefer the season finales to the penultimate ones, so I’m pumped about this one coming up. Here’s hoping we’ll get a Ghost cameo 🙂 Though I won’t hold my breath.

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    15. Really like the title! I think it will be a Rhaegar and Lyanna snippet that will probably last like 5 seconds somewhere at the end (see Eastwatch title). As many pointed out Ice and Fire it’s now considered by many to be Jon and Daenerys, though really, Jon should be considered just as Fire as Dany.

      What I’d love it to be: Ghost meets Drogon. It is time for them to meet.

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    16. As you would expect, it implies both Jon and Dany and Rheagar and Lyanna, as well as perhaps Jon himself, who is both a ‘dragon and a wolf’ – though I think the latter is less likely.

      God, I do hope a new dynasty is founded to represent this so I can start designing sigils. I offer my services to HBO – my fees are modest.

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    17. The Dragon and the Wolf = Jon, obviously.

      They used Gilly to causally hint at Jon’s legitimacy. Perhaps Bran’s vision will give the viewers definitive proof of the annulment+marriage.

      I love how they are purposefully avoiding Jon going back to Winterfell and meeting Bran there. I wonder at what point in the story Jon will come to know of the truth. Perhaps after he’s fully fallen in love with Dany?

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    18. Damien,

      I haven’t found this season to be wholly horrible the way some folk have. I think the season could have done with more episodes (or at least one) to lessen the jumping from place to place which some people have found jarring. I know it’s been mentioned before that the story has had to be streamlined to move towards the endgame; Mr Benioff and Mr Weiss have elected for a radical pruning of sub-plots and killing off of characters before their demise in the books. I don’t entirely mind them speeding things up because if I have to wait many years for the next books, as an older person I may be a skeleton wight by the time they are published though if I am around then I will likely read them.

      TormundsWoman:
      Really like the title! I think it will be a Rhaegar and Lyanna snippet that will probably last like 5 seconds somewhere at the end (see Eastwatch title). As many pointed out Ice and Fire it’s now considered by many to be Jon and Daenerys, though really, Jon should be considered just as Fire as Dany.

      What I’d love it to be: Ghost meets Drogon. It is time for them to meet.

      As long as Drogon didn’t decide on Dire Wolf on toast for his lunch!

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    19. Dame of Mercia,

      How is this season considered horrible,this is ridiculous,i understand if last episode was a dissapointment but i thought the first 5 episodes were thought to be great more or less,this is why i can’t take some people seriously honestly,well next season is 6 episodes so if they don’t like the pace of this season,too fucking bad i guess .

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    20. BranTheBlessed:
      The Dragon and the Wolf = Jon, obviously.

      They used Gilly to causally hint at Jon’s legitimacy. Perhaps Bran’s vision will give the viewers definitive proof of the annulment+marriage.

      BranTheBlessed,

      I think that’s a good guess. I wonder if Howland Reed will be needed at some point to be a witness to corroborate Bran’s visions. The triangulation of documentation (from Sam and Gilly), visions (Bran), and a witness (Howland Reed) would pretty much be definitive proof that Jon is a Targaryen.

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    21. BranTheBlessed,

      No, no, no, NO!

      It is simply a matter of common knowledge now that this tale has TWO main characters, not one. That and the fact that every indication in the story has led us to associate ‘Dragon’ and ‘Fire’ with Dany and ‘Wolf’ and ‘Ice’ with Jon.

      The Dragon = Rhaegar/ Daenerys
      The Wolf = Lyanna/ Jon

      It’s that simple.

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    22. Violator,

      Ewwwwwwwwww! Well, that explains why we haven’t seen Ghost! 😉

      I like Redx’s idea best! Ghost rides Drogon!

      No mention of Lions. Hopefully that means the Wolves and the Dragons eat the Lions (except for Jaime and Bronn!).

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    23. I am going to make a prediction that during this episode

      at some point I will pass a little wee

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    24. Kris Logan:
      Dame of Mercia,

      How is this season considered horrible,this is ridiculous,i understand if last episode was a dissapointment but i thought the first 5 episodes were thought to be great more or less,this is why i can’t take some people seriously honestly,well next season is 6 episodes so if they don’t like the pace of this season,too fucking bad i guess .

      I find that the loudest of the haters are the ones who say stuff like that, that the show has become the worst thing on TV and how dare they ruin GoT like this. Maybe these people are mostly upset because what we are watching isn’t their fan fiction or how they themselves would of done the show? Hind sight is always 20/20.

      But there are people who give good criticism to the show which is fine. Sure there are pacing issues, but I’ve seen way worse in movies so I don’t make big deal about it. I have a friend though who hates where the show has gone because now its more Fantasy in his mind (with the whole army of the dead and all vs dragons) and he was into it more for the political scheming which previous seasons gave us. I have to keep telling him, remember that very first episode of GoT where they showed us beyond the wall? You should of been ready for this. Even the books will end up being a humans vs night king (or whoever ends up leading them in books).

      I just watched that making of for the Lake battle in this episode, crazy what these guys do. I’m always amazed when I see stuff like that.

      I hope we get to see Ghost this episode, at least once ffs. Would love if a Northern Lord is seen chirping Jon again and Ghost happens to just walk by reminding everyone the White Wolf is watching.

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    25. First episode title for season 8 has been announced:

      ‘The Lion, the Dragon, the Wolf, the Bear, the Stag, the Vauxhall Corsa and the Pizza and their Fun Day Out’

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    26. We finally have an official description of Eastwatch on the HBO schedule site:

      Daenerys offers a choice. Arya grows suspicious. Tyrion answers a good question. (TVMA) (AC,AL,V)

      But they’ve still yet to release a description for Beyond the Wall or, of course, The Dragon and the Wolf. Perhaps we’ll get those descriptions in a few weeks? Humph!

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    27. Maybe it also refers to Daenerys and Sansa… Or (fan-fiction) Drogon and Ghost devouring the enemies of their respective houses 😉

      Joffrey had a coat of arms of two houses so Jon could do the same.

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    28. Jon is a Stark. His mother was a Stark.

      He is the White Wolf. He is the Lost Dragon. He is the King in the North. He is the Shield that Guards the Realms of Men.

      He is the Dumbass Who Needs Rescued All The Time. He is the Lord Who Kisses. He is the One Who Knows Nothing.

      He is Jon Snow.

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    29. The episode is 80 minutes long and apart from two plot points from the leaked outline I have no idea what is going to happen, I’m pumped! Given the title I really hope Bran has a flash back and we get to see Rhaegar and Lyanna getting married!

      I suspect the title will have multiple meanings though given other finale titles, it will mean, Lyanna/Rhaegar, Dany/Jon, Jon himself and maybe other stuff.

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    30. The Dragon and The Wolf… The kicker?…

      They are BOTH Jon! It’s not about Jon/Dany. It’s not about Rhaegar/Lyanna… It’s about Jon finding out he is in fact The Dragon AND The Wolf.

      Boom. You’re Welcome.

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    31. Lulus Mum,
      Ok, I just broke my own link. Here it is again if anyone’s interested.

      Sue the Fury,
      Hi Sue *waves* we don’t get any of the accompanying stuff that goes with GoT, like previously on or the following week’s trailer, but we do have adverts grrrrrrr! Sky’s programmes fill fixed slots so they start at uniform times rather than as soon as the previous one has finished. So what they’re indicating here is the show after GoT will start 90 minutes after GoT does. This was brought to you by Lulu’s Mum’s technically correct but not terribly interesting trivia service 🙂

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    32. ghost of winterfell:
      Yup, it refers to Rhaegar and Lyanna, I think. It’s the part I am most looking forward to 🙂 .

      You know, I just realized how bittersweet it was that now there is only one dragon left waiting for his dragonrider. Rhaegal is, of course, the perfect dragon for Rhaegar’s son. Wouldn’t it be awesome to see Jon leap on Rhaegal and take off flying? The Dragon and the Wolf.

      We’ve not yet seen images of Dany and her dragons this episode. Perhaps they didn’t want to spoil that Ghost would be coming to the party on Rhaegal.

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    33. Lulus Mum,
      That probably accounts for the 1 hr 30 mins then. I watch it on Now TV catch up service in the morning after the 2am showing and…NO AD BREAKS 🙂

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    34. “The Dragon and the Wolf” is my favorite episode title of the season. Dany and Jon. Rhaegar and Lyanna. Fire and Ice. It’s perfect.

      I can’t wait for Sunday!

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    35. Raenarys,

      When we know a central theme of this entire season has been the relationship between Dany and Jon, not just Jon’s parentage?

      To assume the title means nothing other than Jon sidelines Dany’s central role in the plot (possibly because some people want to pretend she doesn’t have one).

      The title has multiple meanings, but you can bet your mortgage that the primary focus of the episode will be the parallel between Jon and Dany, and Rhaegar and Lyanna.

      And some hot sex between Ghost and Drogon too.

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    36. Hi! my best guess is that the title words will be uttered by bran wen he relates his vision to the stark gals!
      Bran is good at blabbering words these days! Chaos is a ladder, anyone? Wat he did wit dat info? Nthn!
      It will be such aletdown! Hope m wrong!

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    37. Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
      Oooh nice! You don’t get loads of adverts but it’s still distracting. The break that sticks in my mind is one just after Lancel gets stabbified during the Battle of Blackwater. It’s like, yes that is a very nice car you’re selling but we’re in the middle of a battle here, can we get back to the action please! 🙁

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    38. Lulus Mum,

      Hi, Mum! It’s great to see you. Did you catch the ice penguins in the last episode? They were right behind the polar bear, obscured by the fog and riding atop the spiders with tiny penguin saddles. I thought of you when I saw them.

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    39. Lulus Mum,

      Sky even put an ad break at a crucial point during the live stream of The Purple Wedding episode! That was when I gave up with the live broadcast stream in favour of the catch up (I don’t have Satellite) .

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    40. Mawk: have a friend though who hates where the show has gone because now its more Fantasy in his mind (with the whole army of the dead and all vs dragons) and he was into it more for the political scheming which previous seasons gave us

      HAHAHAH HEELLLOOO
      opening scene.. lol

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    41. Raenarys:
      Ginevra,

      So does this now kill the theory that Tyrion is also Targ?

      And that Meera is Jon’s twin, yes. I’ve never subscribed to either, though.

      However, I’m not wholeheartedly convinced we won’t have more dragons so that we can have three heads and three dragonriders. I still think it might be possible that Jon will wake dragons from stone. I’ve always loved that theory, even if it doesn’t happen. I’m not yet ready to give up on it. I just think that powerful wargs could fly dragons in addition to Targaryens. After all, the Night’s King probably isn’t Targaryen.

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    42. Violator:
      Raenarys,

      To assume the title means nothing other than Jon sidelines Dany’s central role in the plot (possibly because some people want to pretend she doesn’t have one).

      How does an episode title referring to Jon undermine Dany’s central role in the plot? I am not saying that the title refers only to Jon (it obviously has multiple meanings), but I don’t really follow your logic. Jon is a dragon and a wolf, and if his legitimacy gets confirmed, then like it or not, the title does refer to him in a significant way.

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    43. Dee Stark,

      Yes Sky are gits like that, you pay a hefty subscription fee for a package and they still blast you with ad breaks…

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    44. Ginevra,

      Oh I never thought Jon and Meera were twins. I heard that one as well and thought it far too odd.

      The Tyrion theory was somewhat believable just bc of the dialogue with Tywin/Tyrion and that in the books, Tyrion is far more blond than Jamie and Cersei.

      I’m with you on not giving up on Jon waking dragons. Let it be true!!

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    45. I’m in agreement with those who have said multiple meanings are the case. Dany/Jon with a potential marriage agreement thrown in, Rhaegar/Lyanna. It could also be Jon finding out about his parents. I admit I’ve wondered how that would go over and a part of me thinks it could make for a good story if Jon just outright rejects his heritage. Doubt the episode would get that much into it though.

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    46. Ginevra:

      We’ve not yet seen images of Dany and her dragons this episode.Perhaps they didn’t want to spoil that Ghost would be coming to the party on Rhaegal.

      Drogon and Rhaegal both take turns giving Ghost joyrides all the way to King’s Landing..

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    47. Dee Stark,

      Especially so on a show like GoT that has no natural ad breaks inserted into the broadcast version. I think they have some channels where they don’t interrupt shows, but Sky Atlantic doesn’t seem to be one of them.

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    48. My bet is that it will refer to more than one dragon and more than one wolf (or refer to them in different ways at different times). That has proven to be the case in analogous titles up to this point.

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    49. So I rewatched the last episode and it was pretty great. There was some issues with pacing but overall it was amazing.

      I think I’ll refrain from watching any future GOT episodes with any type of booze in me. It def distorted my viewing pleasure.

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    50. Ginevra,
      Hi honey *waving furiously* I feel like Old Nan, I’ve been warning people about the coming pengopalypse for literally years and they dismissed it as the ramblings of a deluded crazy cat lady, but THEY ARE COMING!!

      I’ve been really, really busy at work for the last couple of months so haven’t been able to join in on here this series, but my holiday has now begun so I’m all about this week’s episode. It’s also my 50th birthday on sunday so I will be brimming with sugar from cake and fizzy pop. Will be watching live at 2am so have to remember not to yell at the tv. Well, yell quietly. And hit it with balloons, which is less expensive than my usual stick my boot through the screen technique 😀

      Dee Stark,
      We don’t have HBO in the UK, we get GoT via another company (Sky), hence the ads 🙁

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    51. Raenarys: The Tyrion theory was somewhat believable just bc of the dialogue with Tywin/Tyrion and that in the books, Tyrion is far more blond than Jamie and Cersei

      Tywin says the same thing to Jaime: he’s just an ass who says that to his kids when he’s pissed.

      Book!Tyrion has both black and blonde hair. If hair color is evidence of his ancestry, then it pretty much falsifies the Tyrion Targaryean idea (assuming our rules of dominance/recessive) because Tyrion would need a dark-haired father.

      Ginevra: I still think it might be possible that Jon will wake dragons from stone. I’ve always loved that theory, even if it doesn’t happen. I’m not yet ready to give up on it.

      Daenerys already did that, so there is no reason to expect it to happen again. (As so often is the case, the prophecy is pretty opaque on this: but petrified dragon eggs certainly fits the bill!)

      I think at this point, we have to accept that the “Three Riders” fan conjecture was basically just run-away fan thinking. We (and I include myself in this!) took the “There must be a third” and “The dragon needs three heads” to mean that there would be three appointed riders for the three dragons. However (and there were some people, like Hodors Bastard, who noted this): this was entirely extrapolation, not something in the books or on the show themselves.

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    52. Lulus Mum: We don’t have HBO in the UK, we get GoT via another company (Sky), hence the ads

      heh, that is so backwards: Yanks getting commercial free, Brits getting commercials! 😀

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    53. Violator,

      We’re talking about the upcoming episode, not the story as a whole. I just thought at this point in the series, ‘Dragon and Wolf’ is more likely to reference Jon-his parents and his legitimacy.

      For it to reference Dany+Jon surely implies a marriage? It is possible, mind, the way the story is rocketing this season. Perhaps Jon and Dany reveal their love for one another at the start, get married halfway through and consummate their marriage at the end of the episode?

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    54. Hoping we get a R + L flashback! Since we know of the anullment now, possibly a tourney at harrenhal!? Would be fantastic. I also believe this title has multiple meanings. Dany + Jon, Jon himself and his heritage (R + L = J), the stark sisters + Bran keeping “the pack alive” and probably the new ice dragon. Should be one helluva finale. And then the long (wait) night cometh…

      Side note: I hope The Hound, Gendry, Davos and Tormund all survive and have places back in Winterfell. Maybe The Hound as master of arms, Gendry as the smith, Davos as the king’s hand and Tormund as … just the resident kissed by fire ginger for comedic relief : )

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    55. Wimsey,
      It’s not too bad, we don’t have anything like the amount of ads American tv does and some of our channels are completely advert free, so swings and roundabouts. Mmm I’ve gone from not really posting at all in the last 8 or so weeks to starting to take over this thread. I shall shut up for a bit……wonder what’s in the fridge……be back later….

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    56. Raenarys,

      I’ve actually read a good theory on this. Jon ‘waking dragons from stone’ might be metaphor for Jon getting Dany pregnant ( at this point she believes her womb is cursed/dead/asleep ) and thus restore the Targaryan dynasty with dragon heirs.

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    57. Clob: Good… so Jack can take is “under 9” prediction and stuff it 😛

      Ha! Well I’m happy to see that it was still over 10 million even though it leaked 5 days early. You have to admit though that it would have been higher then Eastwatch if it didn’t leak though. Makes no sense that viewership dropped from Eastwatch after the preview for Beyond the Wall. Just from the preview people knew it would be a big episode.

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    58. Gendrys Compass:
      Question that’s bugging me… why wouldn’t Jon bring Ghost to the meeting?

      Cersei has her nuke in the Mountain and Dany obviously has THE nuke in Drogon. Ghost may not be a nuke but he’s a heck of a heat seeking missile.

      And I know… budgets and all…but that just seems too obvious.

      Jon himself is a “nuke” why would he need ghost for?

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    59. Wimsey: However (and there were some people, like HB, who noted this): this was entirely extrapolation, not something in the books or on the show themselves.

      I might have to plead the fifth of Jack Daniels on that one, W!

      Good to read you again. So many great thoughts on both sides of the positive/negative review aisle for this past episode. I like Ginerva’s thoughts regarding Jon riding Rhaegal. Drogon should put in a good word for him. For some strange reason, the KL Dragonpit scene is reminding me a lot of Dany’s experience in Daznak’s pit in Meereen. Perhaps things will go awry and it’s now Jon’s turn to bond and ride away on a dragon?

      In any case, a dragon landing in Winterfell, ridden by either ice or fire or both, will be the ultimate scene for me. I want to see Lord Glover wallow in his fickle britches.

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    60. Mawk,

      Just to keep things in perspective (and at the risk of being redundant):

      • The “101 Greatest GoT Moments” countdown (series of articles) WoW published before S7, along with the scores of comments identifying worthy candidate that didn’t make the cut, demonstrated that for the 1% of the time the show disappoints, 99% of the time it excels.

      • The anomalous misfires or seeming incongruities (jet packs, silly plans, out of character behavior, “dumbed down” hero, last minute rescues, etc.) get disproportionate attention from the fandom. Maybe it’s human nature. It’s resssuring to know that there are plenty of commenters here who praise truly great episodes and analyze why they were so good.

      • The showrunners have now given us (and we’ve been fortunate to have) 66 episodes of unprecedented quality, produced with time and budget constraints. That’s roughly 66 hours aired so far, with about 7-8 hours left until the series finale in S8. Only a handful of those 66 episodes didn’t meet (high) audience expectations. For me – and this is a matter of personal taste – only a few of the story lines haven’t enthralled me (e.g., High Sparrow – Faith Militant; Greyjoys-Iron Islands; sadist Ramsay overload; and Snidely DouchebagFinger).

      • Generally speaking, even the most exciting TV shows start sucking by the second season. Seven seasons in, and GoT is still raising the bar.

      • There have been so many indelible moments that will remain on my permanent Perpetual Rewatch Loop long after the show concludes. I’m confident I’m not alone.

      • How great are Arya and Sandor, and the actors who play them ? 🐺🐕

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    61. Jack Bauer 24,

      Actually the preview for Beyond the Walls had way less views than the one for Eastwatch and also the preview for the finale made in 1 day almost 80% of the views for the preview for Beyond the Wall . The preview for the finale sits now at over 8 million in just under 2 days,while the preview for last episode only made that number in a week,it might have been the leaks that affected i have no idea,but you were wrong,like always .

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    62. Dee Stark,

      Dee I know, I felt it the next day. Was out celebrating the birthday of my friend’s younger brother who is 24. My friend and I are 32. Clearly our constitution has changed and we didn’t realize it ahead of time.

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    63. Jack Bauer 24,

      Many people have a paid subscription, they will watch it anyway on sunday evening. When I was still living with my parents, we always watched TV from 8 PM till 10:30 PM. It didn’t matter if there was something interesting or not.

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    64. Ginevra:
      We finally have an official description of Eastwatch on the HBO schedule site:

      But they’ve still yet to release a description for Beyond the Wall or, of course, The Dragon and the Wolf.Perhaps we’ll get those descriptions in a few weeks?Humph!

      Ginevra,

      They forgot to add the usual, “Jack Bauer 24 gets disappointed” to the description

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    65. I think the title is fine. There is a tradition:

      Wolf and the Lion
      Lion and the Rose
      Mountain and the Viper

      Tune in next season, when the episodes are:

      1) The Raven and the Iceman (Bran and the Night’s King)
      2) The Red Wolf and the Dark Wolf (Arya and Sansa)
      3) The Sapphire and the Gold (Brienne and Jaime)
      4) The Penis and the Unpenis (Pod and Theon)
      5) The Kraken and the Bear (Jorah and Euron)
      6) The Wolf, The Dragon, the Lion, the Iceman, the Ice, the Fire, the Song, the Of, the Pod, the Fish, the Three Yellow Balls Thing and the Other Dragon

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    66. In all the other episodes with titles that have two sigils together in it, something does not go well for one of them. So this makes me nervous because I don’t want to see the dragon and the wolf up against each other lol.

      But in this case, I’m with the others saying it’s probably about Jon being both and giving us more about Rhaegar and Lyanna’s background. Along with highlighting whatever his relationship with Dany is becoming. It could also suggest that Jon will have better luck convincing the people of Winterfell to back the unlikely alliance he’s trying to form with a Targaryen after they find out about what she’s done to help.

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    67. Clob: Do you mean like eating an entire pound of bacon like I did on Sunday!?

      HAHAHA 😀 Have you recovered, Clob? I swear, my blood pressure still wasn’t back to normal, when I finally went to bed!

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    68. Gendrys Compass: Cersei has her nuke in the Mountain and Dany obviously has THE nuke in Drogon. Ghost may not be a nuke but he’s a heck of a heat seeking missile.

      Now as an unsullied non-bookreader, I don’t know why the Dragon Pit is a burned/molten ruin, but maybe Cersei could also still have some wildfire there… (No I don’t want spoilery answers)

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    69. I hope we’ll find out how the Rhaegar/Lyanna thing got so completely misunderstood by everyone.

      It seems like the annulment was agreed upon by all involved as well as the new marriage. Rhaegar and Lyanna wanted to be with each other.

      However, word on the street says that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped her.

      Is this due to nothing more than wild rumors and assumptions or did the message get altered/distorted at some point by someone specific? (cough, Littlefinger, cough)

      Seems like this couldve all been cleared up by Lyanna sending a raven or meeting with her family face-to-face to tell them what actually happened.

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    70. I don’t want this to be last episode! *cries*
      But that title! Agree with everyone Jon/Dany Rhaegar/Lyanna Ice/Fire …and hopefully Ghost and the WF wolfpack dealing with their business lol

      Is one episode even long enough for everything they need to do?

      That all-star meeting alone-and whatever Cersei plans for that meeting which will be awful and probably involve some death.
      Sansa/Arya/LF needs to be resolved somehow-possibly with death.
      Where is Sam w/ those books
      Is Gendry going to WF? Is Beric (some say he’ll stay at Wall, but I think he’s here for Jon so still not so sure)
      Bran saying something, being onscreen or having a flashback (hope) 🙂
      Dany and Jon sitting in a tree-or on a dragon lol
      Is NK going to use Ice Dragon to deal with the Wall issue?
      Oh gods, where is Edd? And Tormund?!

      That’s a LOT for one episode, and I’m probably wrong about and/or missing some things.

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    71. Mawk,

      I just watched that making of for the Lake battle in this episode, crazy what these guys do. I’m always amazed when I see stuff like that..

      I just watched the anantomy of a scene video also. I was blown away about how they created the frozen lake. They poured enough concrete for a fricken lake bed. I thought the visuals were stunning. To me it’s much more realistic looking than most of the Marvel comic movies that are totally unbelievable with fighting scenes that just get boring.

      Regarding The Dragon and the Wolf, I think the wolf (or wolves) could have alot to do with what’s going on at Winterfell. There has been buildup now for two or three episodes. Something made me thing of the Dragon and the Wolf and the Wardrobe. They have had some awesome outfits this year! One other question. Does anyone think it’s possible to create dragonglass armor for Drogon? In medieval battles they made armor for their horses, and Drogon seems able to carry a load on his back. Maybe the wardrobe department at Dragonstone can work on it.

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    72. I wouldn’t put it past LF! I didn’t even think about HOW (more importantly now WHY) the rumors were started…. veddy veddy interesting….

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    73. Dead Dane Walking,

      Cersei may stupid but not as stupid to burn herself up at least not while she still has a purpose . Honestly i think the people who are expecting some mind shockingly twist at the Dragonpit meeting are going to be dissapointed,we are going to get plenty of good dialogue and character interactions but i don’t think anything more than that .

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    74. 1) How big is the White Walker army in relation to the combined forces of the living (Unsullied, Dothraki, Euron’s ships, Northerner army and Lannister forces)? I know the White Walkers can just resurrect and replenish at will (and likely during a battle) therefore is the end game just kill the White Walkers/Night King and be done with it? I know that is what the show is pointing towards but I don’t want it to be well they have a bigger army but we just kill the Night King and win.

      2) Assuming the White Walker army greatly outnumbers the living, it seems the living has the advantage that they will be able to kill more wights because of expertise, etc (see Beyond the Wall last week) so does it even matter?

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    75. Mr Derp: Seems like this couldve all been cleared up by Lyanna sending a raven or meeting with her family face-to-face to tell them what actually happened.

      Yup. Lyanna of the Laughing Tree was more ambitious than her northern kin but she probably had a youthful immaturity as well. Her escapade happened well after the Harrenhal tourney…so how did she plan it? Are there raven messages between her and Rhaegar to prove it? She left on her own volition.

      And then the great and honorable Stark father and brothers had to do something about it. They misinterpreted the situation, much like good ol’ Ned misinterpreted the nightwatchman’s lunatic ramblings at the beginning of the tale.

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    76. Mr Derp:
      I hope we’ll find out how the Rhaegar/Lyanna thing got so completely misunderstood by everyone.

      It seems like the annulment was agreed upon by all involved as well as the new marriage.Rhaegar and Lyanna wanted to be with each other.

      However, word on the street says that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped her.

      Is this due to nothing more than wild rumors and assumptions or did the message get altered/distorted at some point by someone specific? (cough, Littlefinger, cough)

      Seems like this couldve all been cleared up by Lyanna sending a raven or meeting with her family face-to-face to tell them what actually happened.

      With Robert being such a hothead, I’m guessing he had people spin the story to work in his favor so he could avoid the humiliation from being dumped for another man. And I wouldn’t be surprised if LF played a role in it. For all we know, she probably did try to tell people what happened and got intercepted.

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    77. chris,

      Well when the WWs get past the wall their army is going to get even bigger than it already is so think about all the wars that happened over the course of the series and all the people who didn’t get burned in battle,no combined forces are going to match the numbers of their army . And as more people on the human side fall in battle,more are going to come back on the other side because i doubt our heroes will have time to burn all the bodies .

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    78. Kris Logan,

      I know, I guess I am thinking well what if these two armies meet right at the wall at this point, what would the size of each army be. I know the more the WW army moves south the bigger it is going to get. I was more trying to figure out the sizes of the two armies at this moment in time.

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    79. Kris Logan,
      No worries, mate 🙂 This is not a theory – I was only throwing it in there as an option, since he was pointing out all the possible WMDs in play… And I don’t think The Mountain qualifies as WMD in comparison with dragons and direwolves.

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    80. Furiosa:
      I´m swooning…!
      I´m fainting…!
      I can´t wait!

      (That sad curly boy can mention that hes not a stark as often as he likes, he was raised my wolfes, he is a wolf.)

      Totally agree. He’s a wolf through and through. Okay, fine. He’s got some dragon in him, too. 🙂

      Boy, this news got me so excited. I was avoiding clicking it for some time for fear of spoilers. LOL.

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    81. Hodors Bastard: I might have to plead the fifth of Jack Daniels on that one, W!

      Ah, perhaps I am misattributing: you’ve got a good track record of being right or at least partially right on some things like this. My memory is that Person X (and I think that it was you) was suggesting that not all three dragons would make it to Westeros. I don’t remember what the rationale was behind it (this might have been 3 years ago!), but I do remember people (like, ahem, me!) saying “But what about the three dragon riders?!?!?”), and Person X cautioning “Well, fans make a big deal of three riders: but the ‘three heads’ and ‘there must be a third’ do not necessarily refer to that.”

      I remember realizing that this was completely correct: we had just been lumping all of the “threes” together. I still thought that it would probably come true, but that maybe it was not a sure thing. However, when I saw the Zombie Polar bear, and then all three dragons flying for the Wall, Anton Chekhov appeared to me in a vision and said “scratch one dragon: and scratch the three riders while you are at it.”

      I suppose adding that I thought “the bastard was right” would have scored irony points, at least if my memory is not wrong! 😀

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    82. LadyMelisandre: And I wouldn’t be surprised if LF played a role in it. For all we know, she probably did try to tell people what happened and got intercepted.

      Uh I would actually like that to play out in the show – meaning LF may have known about Jon’s heritage all along!

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    83. LadyMelisandre: With Robert being such a hothead, I’m guessing he had people spin the story to work in his favor so he could avoid the humiliation from being dumped for another man. And I wouldn’t be surprised if LF played a role in it. For all we know, she probably did try to tell people what happened and got intercepted.

      We know the Starks and the stories of Lyanna. She wouldn’t have wanted that war or for people to make her “the victim” of it. I would imagine she tried to send more than one message-the first one around the time of her wedding before her father and brother were killed.
      Someone definitely intercepted/blocked that for some reason. It’s the only plausible explanation.
      I’ve been leaning toward LF.
      He had cause to hate the Starks since Ned’s older brother left a scar down his middle in their fight for Cat. I know he was young but he was old enough to be at the Harrenhal Tourney apparently-and old enough to sleep with Lysa while recovering from his wounds. Old enough to intercept a message or get someone to send Brandon a rumor-while he was on his way to marry Cat-of his sister being held by Rhaegar (in the wrong place too-since he went to the Red Keep to confront Rhaegar and they were already in Dorne)
      If Robert had anything to do with spreading the story (which is possible knowing his pride)-then he fooled himself too-since he called out Lyanna’s name on his wedding night and mourned her memory for the rest of his life.

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    84. LadyMelisandre: With Robert being such a hothead, I’m guessing he had people spin the story to work in his favor so he could avoid the humiliation from being dumped for another man.

      It would not have been just Robert. The Starks would, of course, assume that their daughter would never do anything so dishonorable as run off with another man. Because the Starks have the reputation of being honorable to the point of folly, everyone would probably leap to the same conclusion. Rhaegar himself had a good reputation, but he seems to have been damned by association with his father. And, of course, good old fashioned sexism would play a role: people would assume that a noblewoman from a good family would not do such a thing because they would not credit such a woman with showing any sort of initiative.

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    85. Hey guys, just in case there is indeed a Rhaegar/Lyanna flashback next Sunday, could we all try to remember that they are played by actors who are real people with real feelings and not just shred them apart in case they don’t fit the images we have in our minds?
      I am especially saying that for Rhaegar, as Lyanna has already been on the show and she was more or less well received.

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    86. Dead Dane Walking: HAHAHA 😀 Have you recovered, Clob? I swear, my blood pressure still wasn’t back to normal, when I finally went to bed!

      Barely!! I was worried the episode causing heart-racing wasn’t helping either!!

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    87. How many characters are still alive that have met both Rhaegar and Jon Snow? I can think of Littlefinger and Cersei. Maybe Jorah?

      I think it would be kinda cool if Cersei tells Jon at the Dragonpit scene that he looks like Rhaegar.

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    88. I just don’t get the point in draaaaaaaaaging this whole Jon Snow birth out any longer. Seriously, with the ‘hints’ they have dropped, it will be the most underwhelming reveal in history.

      When it is finally ‘confirmed’ to the character, the viewers will be like ‘bfd… we knew this for two years’. I just don’t get how so much info can be given, and still make it like it is a secret.

      I mean come on, wouldn’t Bran be doing more to tell Jon knowing he had left for Dragonstone? I am starting to think that he is NOT a Targaryen because it makes more since why D&B would continue trolling people with not-so-subtle hints.

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    89. chris:
      Kris Logan,

      I know, I guess I am thinking well what if these two armies meet right at the wall at this point, what would the size of each army be.I know the more the WW army moves south the bigger it is going to get.I was more trying to figure out the sizes of the two armies at this moment in time.

      I think it’s impossible to know at this point. The WW army might have them outnumbered though. The casualties among the human armies from all the recent battles/ambushes have definitely left a bit of a dent. But Dany’s dragons, Jon’s group, and Benjen combined wiped out A LOT of wights (including one WW) and it doesn’t seem like they left a dent in the army at all. It’s also easier for them to expand their army, and being able to add animals that can be controlled by them is also an advantage. Plus, we don’t really know exactly how many WW exist either. The NK always has a group of three or four out leading the army with him even after quite a few of them have been killed, and we know they’ve taken in at least 99 to raise just from Craster alone.

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    90. Raenarys,

      Lyanna was closest to Benjen. There are definite clues that he knew. Some people think that was the “We’ll talk when I get back” conversation he was going to have with Jon.
      Just like Ned said, “Next time we meet, I’ll tell you about your mother”

      People have been avoiding having that conversation with Jon for years lol

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    91. RG: Someone definitely intercepted/blocked that for some reason. It’s the only plausible explanation.
      I’ve been leaning toward LF.

      The time to hang the necessary guns for Littlefinger to have been involved have long since come and gone. We needed to be told that Littlefinger was in the right places at the right times: and we have not been. So, at this point, it would be the same as Deus ex Machina. (What it really would be is arbitrary: but Deus ex Machina basically is spectacular and arbitrary.)

      The other thing to keep in mind is that it’s not important anymore. Yes, fans always crave more backstory that most authors provide. However, authors need to give you the backstory to explain why things happened: because of Backstory Element X, Story Element Y happened. Fans then want an explanation for why Backstory Element X happened, but authors usually do not provide it because it’s not relevant to the tale.

      However, would any of that affect how Jon sees himself? No. Would any of that affect how Daenerys sees Jon or herself? No. (The basic “Jon is your nephew” part will: but side issues stemming from how Jon came to be would not.) Would this affect how people respond to Daenerys? No: it is her father that is held against her, not her brother. Would this affect how people respond to Jon? No: debating whether he is legitimate or not might, but why Lyanna’s family failed to learn will not be part of that.

      That is important because this is, after all, a story: and what makes a story are the parallelisms between how a protagonist or (in this case) a set of protagonists evolve over time. If it’s not related to their evolution, then it probably will not be in this sort of story.

      (If you paid attention to the Harry Potter series 10+ years ago, then you could see a host of “Unanswered Questions” that really were “I want to know more about characters who died before the story started,” when then not only were never answered in the books, but none of the characters even raised the questions. This almost certainly is in that “What were James & Lily’s jobs?” area.)

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    92. Mr Derp:
      How many characters are still alive that have met both Rhaegar and Jon Snow?I can think of Littlefinger and Cersei.Maybe Jorah?

      I think it would be kinda cool if Cersei tells Jon at the Dragonpit scene that he looks like Rhaegar.

      Howland Reed is still alive (as far as we know). So Meera returning home should bring him back into the picture. If she knows what is going on, and tells him, he could step in to help confirm, along with the book Gilly found discussing the annulment.

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    93. Mawk: I find that the loudest of the haters are the ones who say stuff like that, that the show has become the worst thing on TV and how dare they ruin GoT like this. Maybe these people are mostly upset because what we are watching isn’t their fan fiction or how they themselves would of done the show? Hind sight is always 20/20.

      I think that GRRM loyal book readers are frustrated and are understandably taking it out on the show. First, they are frustrated that they have been waiting for years for the books and have no answers. Second, because of this, the loyal book readers are feeling the lack of depth that comes from the showrunners not having the rich source material that would have come with the books. Finally, both that starting in season 6 and particularly this season, it is feeling that GRRM’s work is being “spoiled” as we are seeing the “answers” and for some it seems like “fan fiction” not GRRM. Which feeds into the frustration that the books are not out. I empathize with them, even though I am not a book reader, and recognize that D & D can never satisfy everyone in this wide community of book/show lovers in this context. In my mind, although I am not saying it is easy, we should all just enjoy the shows for what they are, and consider it a gift that the books, when they come out, will be a far richer tapestry that will get us to the same destination in such a different way that it will still (hopefully) feel completely different.

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    94. Wimsey: I suppose adding that I thought “the bastard was right” would have scored irony points, at least if my memory is not wrong

      Yes, we had some round table discussions about it. I rather enjoy heralded prophesy being warped and/or obliterated by realtime activities. 🙂 Heck, the three-headed dragon conversation might return depending on who the NK actually is! Doh!

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    95. RG:
      Raenarys,

      Lyanna was closest to Benjen. There are definite clues that he knew. Some people think that was the “We’ll talk when I get back” conversation he was going to have with Jon.
      Just like Ned said, “Next time we meet, I’ll tell you about your mother”

      People have been avoiding having that conversation with Jon for years lol

      RG,

      I think I feel bad the most for Catelyn Stark. I really think Ned should’ve confided in her about Jon’s real parentage. It wouldn’t have changed a thing other than saving Cate the grief of having to live with a cheating husband with a bastard son. He should’ve trusted Cate to keep that a secret. She lived a good portion of her life carrying a burden that she really didn’t need to carry.

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    96. RG,

      The quote I was thinking of was when Jon said he didn’t care about having a family… and Benjen’s response being “You would if you knew what it meant…” I don’t remember Benjen also telling him we’ll talk when I get back… I must’ve missed that one.

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    97. Wimsey,

      I only started to think it after LF told the story to Sansa in the crypts. Then I went back over things he’s said and the timeline of where everyone was during the tourney and the year following prior to the kidnapping and war.
      It was just a thought experiment. 🙂 A possibility to explain why no one apparently heard from either of them-despite half her family dying-and a huge war that Rhaegar didn’t enter until close to the end at the Trident.
      Part of the fun is trying to solve the riddle, right? lol

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    98. Jack Bauer 24: You have to admit though that it would have been higher then Eastwatch if it didn’t leak though.

      Let me enlighten you, since you’re wrong about that assumption too 😉
      50% of the previous previous six seasons (S1, S2 and S4) episode 9 dropped below episode 8 ratings… Source: Wiki GoT ratings overview here

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    99. RG: Lyanna was closest to Benjen. There are definite clues that he knew.

      What clues are there that he knew? At any rate, Ned almost certainly would not have told Benjen, simply because Ned would have wanted to preserve Benjen’s illusions about their sister’s honor (and even if she married Rhaegar, then eloping was still dishonorable) AND not let Benjen know that Lyanna’s actions led to the death of their father, brother and countless relatives, friends, liegemen and Northern soldiers.

      And, of course, there is one simple rule about keeping something secret: tell no-one who does not need to know. Benjen did not need to know, so why tell him? Sure, withholding the truth is somewhat dishonorable: but so is shaming someone who does not need to share the shame?

      (Ned Stark did not do “morally gray” well, but he always seemed to fall on the side of “I’ll shoulder the shame alone.”)

      RG: Part of the fun is trying to solve the riddle, right

      Yes, it is! However: if no characters in the books or on the show have raised the question, then we can expect that it will not be answered! Some riddles are part of the story, but others are sort of like the three riders: in the minds of fans like us only.

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    100. Mr Derp,

      Varys and Jaime definitely. Possibly the Hound. Maybe Tyrion (although he may actually have never met Rhaegar, if Tywin kept Tyrion at Casterly Rock and out of King’s Landing)

      The books make a point of saying how much Jon looks like Ned (although it’s obviously more like Lyanna) One more reason Catelyn hates him. Arya and Jon are the only ones who favor the Stark side.

      The point? I mean, they can hint all they want, but the problem is, Kit Harrington looks like what would have happened if Robert and Lyanna actually had a kid.

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    101. Mr Derp,

      It was a bad situation either way.
      My thought was he knew his friend Robert and he knew his wife. Having Jon there-if she knew who he was-put her own children in danger from the crown. It was basically treason. Robert had Targ children killed, wanted to kill them all and anyone who protected them. If he found out Ned had been hiding a Targaryen child-Cat and her children could be implicated too.

      I’m not a fan of Cat but what wouldn’t she do to protect her own children?

      Maybe Ned thought it was easier to let her hate him for his infidelity. I don’t think he imagined she would hate an innocent child instead.

      In hindsight, yeah, I imagine telling her would have been easier on Jon. Ned made a lot of decisions that were honorable, but short-sighted. His heart was in the right place. He was just trying to keep everyone safe and keep his promise. No wonder he always looked so sad.

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    102. Ser Not Appearing in this Series:
      Dee Stark,

      Yes Sky are gits like that, you pay a hefty subscription fee for a package and they still blast you with ad breaks…

      I agree. I pay some £40 a month for my Sky viewing card and every 15mins or so there’s an ad break no matter what channel you are watching – Even Sky News!

      They must make millions from the subscriptions, but Sky – being the mercenary shits that they are – must rack in even more millions from advertising 🙁

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    103. Title will have multiple meanings like others have stated. Jon & Dany, hopefully Rhaegar & Lyanna flashback, & thus Jon himself as the literal merger of both Dragon & Wolf. I also expect that Dany & Jon will make their alliance publicly known at the dragonpit meeting. So all of Westeros will know that the Dragon & the Wolf are aligned.

      We all know Cersei is a snake. She has to try to get Jon to join her doesn’t she? Could that be why she invited Sansa? Could she have been hoping to get Sansa to usurp Jon & align with her?

      Instead of the so so Arya/Sansa/LF plot, they should have been offed LF mid season & Sansa, Brienne, & Arya (in disguise) should be attending this Dragon pit meeting & we should be getting a Cersei/Sansa scene with Sansa letting Cersei knows she’s not a scared little girl anymore & maybe even giving her a subtle threat which will be fulfilled in a Valonquar scene with Arya wearing Cersei’s assistant’s face & checking the last name off her list… Now that could be a finale to rival last season’s.

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    104. They are really drawing out Jon’s parentage. Just have him find out already. We already had the flashback last season and the Gilly scene this year.

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    105. RG,

      And that same honor prevented him from asking Robert to legitimize him. Robert would have done it in a second, if only to get to make fun of Ned all over again.

      But Ned knew that Robert would be legitimizing the son of his enemy and didn’t put him in that role.

      And until we find out what else Lyanna whispered, you can still thread the needle that Ned believes Lyanna was kidnapped and raped. Just because a pregnancy resulted doesn’t mean it was consensual.

      If I fault Ned for anything, it’s not keeping it a secret. I fault him for not using his status in the marriage to tell Catelyn to shut the fuck up and cut the kid a break more often.

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    106. RG,

      If and when the books are ever written I think something will differ with Benjen that they chose not to explore in the show. In the books he joined the Night’s Watch at 16 years old and did so within a month or two of Ned returning with the infant Jon. That certainly is suspicious timing and with no explanation provided it has led to different theories. An implication exists that young Benjen’s sudden decision to join the Night’s Watch connects to Ned returning with the infant Jon. Why though, remains unknown.

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    107. Grimwynd,

      Oh yeah because it makes more sense for Bran to tell him that in a letter,so tv worthy and besides how do we know if Bran even knows the full story yet,he certainly doesn’t know about the annulment .

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    108. Did anyone else get the impression that Beric might know the truth? There was something odd about his conversation with Jon when he said he looked more like his mother and that he definitely knew her, only for the conversation to be cut off after that point. He does look like a Stark and has no noticeable Targaryen features.

      Or is that just my wishful thinking and he was suggesting Jon’s mother was the same woman Robert thought she was since we have no idea what she looked like?

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    109. Jack Bauer 24,

      And what purpose would it be for him to find out about it right now,just because you need instant gratification that doesn’t mean the show is obliged to give it to you,if you waited 6 years to find out who his parents are or even more in the case for the books,you can certainly wait 1 more year for him to find out . That’s like saying,why didn’t Martin reveal his parentage back in the first book when we got the first hints,i know it’s hard for you to think Jack but at least try once in a while .

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    110. Mr Derp,

      Even if she had known the truth, the optics of it wouldn’t have changed. The entire country would have thought Ned cheated and had a bastard and then brought him home. Perception is reality.

      And who’s to say that Cat wouldn’t have secretly done something to have Jon removed? Get hints out to Robert? Confide in someone like Lysa who would then spread the word to LF? LF would definitely get the word to Robert to start the conflict he’d have started anyway.

      Cat was hateful & full of resentment for Jon. I hated her character (though Michelle Fairley’s acting was EXCELLENT) because of her treatment of Jon. I really hope she is the one to revive Jon in the books. Now that would bring some redemption & closure to her arc.

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    111. LadyMelisandre,

      I thought Beric said that Jon doesn’t look like Ned, therefore “You must look like your mother…” (or something to that extent) I didn’t hear him saying he literally KNEW her… I could’ve missed it though…

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    112. Raenarys:
      LadyMelisandre,

      I thought Beric said that Jon doesn’t look like Ned, therefore “You must look like your mother…” (or something to that extent) I didn’t hear him saying he literally KNEW her… I could’ve missed it though…

      I think what Beric said was along the lines of “you don’t look like your father, you must favor your mother.” Then Jon asked if Beric knew his father and Beric explains Ned sent him after the Mountain. So, it was a quick reference and then they moved onto that death is the enemy and we fight for the living conversation. From that scene I don’t get the impression Beric knew Lyanna.

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    113. orange,

      Logic says that Benjen joined the NW because he was the 3rd son. Since he doesn’t inherit titles or land, joining the black would be a good choice for a Stark.

      However, when specifically asked “Why did Benjen join the Night’s Watch?”, Martin stated: “Good question. One day you will get an answer, but it will not be today”.

      That was back in 2008 though, so I dont know if anything has changed or not since then.

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    114. Lulus Mum,

      Woohoo!!! We should throw a party in the open chat and make it our goal to shoot the comments up to a thousand, twenty for each year of your life! Henry Gordon was just around here, somewhere, and he’s good with working his magic in that regard.

      My work has nicely coincided with this season. Our term begins this Saturday, but I’ve prepped well enough that I should be able to participate strongly through Sunday and hopefully a bit on Monday, as well.

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    115. Wimsey:
      Daenerys already did that, so there is no reason to expect it to happen again.(As so often is the case, the prophecy is pretty opaque on this: but petrified dragon eggs certainly fits the bill!)

      Waking dragons from eggs would be like a known bastard discovering he’s a secret bastard. Possible. Not poetic.

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    116. Jack Bauer 24:
      What a lame duck title. Really disappointed.

      if GOT ever becomes as predictable as you, then we really will be in trouble FCOL

      slagging off a title before you’ve even watched how it relates to the episode is total BS!

      most of your complaints i’ve seen recently are because you haven’t understood what’s going on!

      i find the title and it’s possible implications very exciting

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    117. RG,

      Good points, I like your comments on Ned and the bigger picture that his whole family would be at risk if anyone revealed the truth about Jon. What a tough situation. I wonder if Cat had been told about Jon would she have tolerated keeping Jon since Jon was a threat to her own children? That could have been a reason he never told her.

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    118. Raenarys:
      LadyMelisandre,

      I thought Beric said that Jon doesn’t look like Ned, therefore “You must look like your mother…” (or something to that extent) I didn’t hear him saying he literally KNEW her… I could’ve missed it though…

      onefromaway: I think what Beric said was along the lines of “you don’t look like your father, you must favor your mother.”Then Jon asked if Beric knew his father and Beric explains Ned sent him after the Mountain.So, it was a quick reference and then they moved onto that death is the enemy and we fight for the living conversation. From that scene I don’t get the impression Beric knew Lyanna.

      That must’ve been my wishful thinking then lol. I’ll have to rewatch that part because I could’ve sworn Jon asked and Beric said he did, but it’s very possible I heard wrong. Admittedly, I do sometimes mishear Kit Harington through his accent.

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    119. orange: That certainly is suspicious timing and with no explanation provided it has led to different theories.

      The books provide an explanation. The Starks took great pride in having spare sons join the Watch. It basically seems similar to what Roman Catholic families used to do: have one son “for the church,” who would be told his entire life that he was meant to become a priest. (GRRM is from a Catholic family, so this notion probably influenced him here.)

      Now, after their older brother died, this might have seemed less important: but it seems that Benjen had a genuine “calling” for the Wall. Indeed, many people speculate that he postponed it until the war was done because the Starks also took pride in having at least one male present at Winterfell whenever possible.

      RG: Ned made a lot of decisions that were honorable, but short-sighted.

      Ah, but, again: the best way to keep a secret is to make sure that the fewest number of people possible know. Ned probably had a very good idea of how Catelyn would react. However, Ned also would have known how Catelyn would have reacted to the truth: and there is little chance that someone as shrewish as Catelyn was at the outset of the story would have tolerated her sister-in-law’s bastard in her household. Jon’s true identity was not just disgraceful (remember, it’s worse for women to break these rules than it is for men), but also a danger to her children. Should anybody learn, then the chances of any future Sansa or Arya getting at good husband drop to zilch. Indeed, there is a good chance that Ned and Robb wind up attainted: and given that Outset!Catelyn’s sole goal in life is to have a grandson and maybe great-grandson be a major Lord, Jon’s life is an actual threat to her purpose and being.

      What it comes down to is this: Ned could make Dishonorable Choice A or Dishonorable Choice B. Ned made the Dishonorable Choice that put the life of one little boy over other aspect of honor. Jon’s going to learn this: and that is going to hugely affect what Jon does at the climax of the story.

      Kris Logan: Oh yeah because it makes more sense for Bran to tell him that in a letter,so tv worthy and besides how do we know if Bran even knows the full story yet,he certainly doesn’t know about the annulment .

      These are good points! And, as we all know, letters often are read by more than the person to whom they are addressed. At any rate, this is the sort of thing that you would tell a person in person.

      That written, it would make a great letter.

      “Dear Jon,

      (Hah! I’m writing a Dear Jon Letter. Get it?) Well, I finally learned why father never told you about your mother: she’s our aunt. No, it’s not some Targaryen thing: she’s Sansa’s, Arya’s and my aunt, not yours. Except, that it is a Targaryen thing because Rhaegar was your father! (See! Maester Luwin was wrong and I do get “irony.” Git.) I saw it while tripping on a tree, so you know it’s true.

      Don’t go chasing polar bears in the great unknown or wights on lakes, or anything like that: I get bad vibes about that possibility.

      Peace & love,
      iii (◉) /`V´\
      (Bran)

      P.S. Our sisters are nuts…”

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    120. Kris Logan,

      Cat always said Jon would usurp her children’s birthrights. Its why she argued with Robb in the books about his will. Now he has and given it away. Now they want us to believe he represents House Stark and have him be a legitimate Targ at the same time. He can’t have it all.

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    121. LadyMelisandre,
      At your service

      Beric (with the best voice ever): “You don’t look much like him.”
      Jon: “Who?”
      B: “Your father. I suppose you favor your mother.”
      J: “You knew him?”
      B: “Of course I did. When he was Hand, he sent me off hunting for The Mountain.”

      …and then they go on to talk about being revived.

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    122. I really like this episode’s title! It’s a call back to S01E05 “The Wolf and the Lion”, and to S04E02 “The Lion and the Rose”.

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    123. Mr Derp:
      How many characters are still alive that have met both Rhaegar and Jon Snow?I can think of Littlefinger and Cersei.Maybe Jorah?

      I think it would be kinda cool if Cersei tells Jon at the Dragonpit scene that he looks like Rhaegar.

      Jaime, Varys

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    124. This all hinges on what Lyanna whispered:

      If she said something like, “Raise him as your own, but do not tell anyone. Promise me.” Then that’s all she wrote. Ned would no more break that promise than he’d cut off his own balls.

      And remember something: When Ned got home, he and Catelyn hadn’t been married long. And it was an arranged marriage. They grew to love each other, but Robb was conceived out of duty, not love. Ned didn’t know if he could truly trust her.

      Add in that even if he told her, they couldn’t tell the world. Robert would want Jon killed as a rape abomination. If Robert ever truly believed Lyanna left him willingly, it would shake him to his core, to the point where he’d kill everything that didn’t run fast enough from him.

      So, it’s probably better for Cat to feel she is the wronged wife than have to pretend to be so. So Ned keeps the secret.

      As for Benjen, the obvious answer is that, as a poster said above, he’s a third son who had no interest in getting married off to some Glover or Cerwyn or Manderly girl and who was raised in a culture where the Night’s Watch was a great calling.

      It’s possible he figured out, or suspected, about Jon’s parentage. After all, it doesn’t take a math genius to figure out the timing of the “kidnap” and Jon appearing. Stannis doesn’t believe Ned cheated, so you’d have to think Benjen found the whole idea implausible.

      Is that why? Did he get tired of biting his tongue every time he heard Jon’s mother being referred to as a tavern wench? Did he threaten to say if Ned didn’t get Catelyn to back off the kid?

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    125. Dead Dane Walking:
      LadyMelisandre,
      At your service

      Beric (with the best voice ever): “You don’t look much like him.”
      Jon: “Who?”
      B: “Your father. I suppose you favor your mother.”
      J: “You knew him?”
      B: “Of course I did. When he was Hand, he sent me off hunting for The Mountain.”

      …and then they go on to talk about being revived.

      Thank you!

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    126. Nikki,

      Except 1. He didn’t chose it
      2. This whole dumb power shit won’t even matter after the WWs invade,we won’t even know if there will be an Iron Throne left after all it’s done .
      And fuck what the Northern Lords think anyway especially that scumbag Galbart Glover who has the nerve to shit on Jon when he was a coward and didn’t fight the Boltons .

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    127. Grimwynd:
      I just don’t get the point in draaaaaaaaaging this whole Jon Snow birth out any longer. Seriously, with the ‘hints’ they have dropped, it will be the most underwhelming reveal in history.

      When it is finally ‘confirmed’ to the character, the viewers will be like ‘bfd… we knew this for two years’. I just don’t get how so much info can be given, and still make it like it is a secret.

      Oddly enough, for some less obsessed viewers, it is still kind of secret. I know viewers who got it in S6E10, but Gilly’s reveal went right over their heads because they sort of forgot!

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    128. Kris Logan:
      Grimwynd,

      Oh yeah because it makes more sense for Bran to tell him that in a letter,so tv worthy and besides how do we know if Bran even knows the full story yet,he certainly doesn’t know about the annulment .

      LOL…. Sorry GRRM, I didn’t know that was you and that you know certainly exactly what Bran does or does not know….

      And yeah, a raven letter blurting it out is not even close to what I suggested.

      But the truth is, Bran has information that will completely change the outcome of his meeting Dany, so not making some significant attempt to pass that information along makes ZERO sense.
      Here is a option for the people that assume the letter has to be a tell all:

      ‘Jon: I am alive and have CRITICAL information about your mother and father which can affect your relationship with all of the houses of Westeros. Contact me IMMEDIATELY.

      Bran’

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    129. WorfWWorfington,

      I’m deeply enjoying all the humor in this thread. Not kidding, I actually started laughing out loud several times.

      Violator, Ten Bears, you guys too – thanks for the laughs.

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    130. HBO also confirmed a few more things. In that runtime of 79 minutes, and 43 seconds, there are:

      2 minutes of hand-holding the fans with a previously on
      3 minutes of Deus Ex Machina
      5 minutes of [REDACTED!!!!]
      7 minutes of the camera lingering on Arya stupidly judging Sansa
      12 minutes of eye-rolling fan service
      20 minutes of setting up season 8 with totally unearned melodrama
      30 minutes of story telling at least as good as an okay episode from season 5

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    131. Kris Logan:
      Jack Bauer 24,

      And what purpose would it be for him to find out about it right now,just because you need instant gratification that doesn’t mean the show is obliged to give it to you,if you waited 6 years to find out who his parents are or even more in the case for the books,you can certainly wait 1 more year for him to find out . That’s like saying,why didn’t Martin reveal his parentage back in the first book when we got the first hints,i know it’s hard for you to think Jack but at least try once in a while .

      I am almost certain you don’t watch the show or read the books…. What purpose would it server for Jon to know he is a Targaryen? Yeah, surely that information would change nothing about his current situation…

      /facepalm

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    132. LadyMelisandre,

      To be fair, things didn’t go well for either Rhaegar or Lyanna in the end, so if it does refer to them, it’s in keeping with tragic outcomes.

      Pretty sure it’s working across multiple levels, though, so let’s hope things go better for Jon and Dany (wistful thinking, I know, but I’ll go ahead and keep believing it until they both die and the White Walkers take over, or whatever…)

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    133. Grimwynd: What purpose would it server for Jon to know he is a Targaryen? Yeah, surely that information would change nothing about his current situation…

      Er… Prevent him from having sex with auntie Dany ?

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    134. GeekFurious,

      Since I’m one of the fans being serviced, I hope it’s longer than 12 minutes. I hope they service me while I’m holding a glass of wine and on my deathbed, if you get my meaning.

      ‘Jon: I am alive and have CRITICAL information about your mother and father which can affect your relationship with all of the houses of Westeros. Contact me IMMEDIATELY.

      PS – The Hot Blonde with the Dragons, Weird. But, good news. Sansa is now pretty much fair game.

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    135. Ten Bears,

      Have any season 7 scenes made your “101 Greatest Game of Thrones scenes list”?

      If so, what are your favorite season 7 scenes and where do they go on your list??

        Quote  Reply

    136. Grimwynd,

      Typical i have no argument so i’m going to say you haven’t read the books or watched the show,thanks buddy,you are as predictable as i expected . And no,i still don’t understand the purpose of him finding out his parentage at the moment,it won’t make the WWs stop their plan of invading,it won’t stop Cersei being crazy and to the dismay of many Dany haters,it won’t stop their relashionship going further .

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    137. So we went from EW saying the finale was almost 90 minutes in the off season to now under 80 minutes. Unbelievable. Subtract the previously on and opening intro and we’ll be at 76 minutes next lol.

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    138. Jack Bauer 24:
      So we went from EW saying the finale was almost 90 minutes in the off season to now under 80 minutes. Unbelievable. Subtract the previously on and opening intro and we’ll be at 76 minutes next lol.

      dont tell me, you’re disappointed ?

        Quote  Reply

    139. Jack Bauer 24:
      So we went from EW saying the finale was almost 90 minutes in the off season to now under 80 minutes. Unbelievable. Subtract the previously on and opening intro and we’ll be at 76 minutes next lol.

      Jack Bauer 24,

      Yea, I mean, it’s only the longest episode in GoT history. Totally disappointing indeed.

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    140. Kris Logan,

      If you are too slow to think that Jon finding out he IS a Targaryen would change his interactions with another Targaryen, you are beyond help….

      Troll someone else, you make no valid points aside from being a contrarian.

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    141. LadyMelisandre:
      That must’ve been my wishful thinking then lol. I’ll have to rewatch that part because I could’ve sworn Jon asked and Beric said he did, but it’s very possible I heard wrong. Admittedly, I do sometimes mishear Kit Harington through his accent.

      Ah, I have a hard time with his accent too from time to time!

      Who knows, Beric may still have met Lyanna or known of her (just not the connection to Jon). Back in episode 1 for this season, when Beric and Sandor were talking in the cabin, Beric started to talk to Sandor about where they first met. Beric said something about “that tourney” and I’m wondering which one, could it have been Harrenhall, the one where Lyanna was at? The conversation did not go much further so it was not clarified which tourney he was talking about. But I don’t remember him at the Tourney for the Hand in season 1, although I could have missed him.

      Anyway, D&D are just throwing out bread crumbs for us!

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    142. Besides the two obvious couples, Jon himself is a Dragon and a Wolf. He’ll just be the last to know it, but that’s not a surprise. He knows nothing anyway, it is known.
      Sounds like a real GoT title, with not just one or two meanings.

      It just occurred to me that the longer we wait for this episode, the less we’ll wait for the next season. So maybe instead of a leak, we can have a delay this week?

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    143. Carole H,
      If you get an invite Carole, pretend you have prior engagement. GoT-related weddings rarely go well. Unless of course you’re Dothraki, in which case the more murder and mayhem the better, if I remember S1 correctly 🙂

      Ginevra,
      Awww, thanks honey. My posts are often long because I try to explain things, so if I just give each word its own post I could probably break the all time record fairly quickly. And no doubt get banned in the attempt, which I would rather avoid. At least until the penguin prophecy has been fulfilled 😀

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    144. FRAN: Might be Bran warging the undead dragon ?

      We don’t have any reason to think that undead animals or people could be warged. If they could, then wights would have been minimal threat to the Children: the TreeGods could have warged at least some of them into submission. Instead, the Children had to actually fight them. At the very least, they should have been able to turn some of the wights against the others in order to buy time for the Children to escape.

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    145. WorfWWorfington,
      At the risk of sounding stupid, what on earth is the three yellow balls thing? Also, don’t forget if you have a lion you need a witch and a wardrobe too. I guess Mel counts as the former? And if it’s a cowardly lion I believe legally he can only travel with a tin man, girl who’s hair unexpectedly changes length plus small dog, and someone else who temporarily escapes me…..quick google……oh yeah a scarecrow. I’m not a book reader but I believe Euron is known as crow’s eye? and is quite scary, so that’s him covered 😀

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    146. Jon is a warg. In the books he is so merged up with Ghost the wolf that when he sleeps he is in ghost’s mind. So he is a real wolf that way. Ie more wolf than any stark has ever been (other than maybe Arya or Bran) . In the show its a different story sadly.

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    147. Exciting title; it implies so much. I think it’ll be primarily about Jon and Dany, but will also refer to Lyanna and Rhaegar. I also hope the omission of “lion” will suggest he downfall of Cersei by the end of the episode.

      Tin foil coming: I have a feeling, with all the foreshadowing in the last episode, that Jon and Dany will make a baby and that they will probably do so in the next episode. I also think they will find out next episode (with the pace this series has been moving, not too infeasable), either as the last scene or towards the end of the episode. I also predict a wedding between the two in this next episode (either before or after finding out about baby): which would perfectly sum up how this episode is all about the relationship between the dragon (Dany) and the wolf (Jon). However, thrown in there will be the story of Rhaegar and Lyanna. I’m not sure whether Jon will find that out this series or next though.

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    148. Jon is a warg. In the books he is so merged up with Ghost the wolf that when he sleeps he is in ghost’s mind. So he is a real wolf that way. Ie more wolf than any stark has ever been (other than maybe Arya or Bran) . In the show its a different story sadly. Hi CGI

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    149. firstone,

      Well, it wasn’t MY “101 Greatest GoT Moments” list. It was compiled by the WoW staff, and published 20 at a time shortly before S7. I remember it well because it inspired lots of positive discussion, and comments identifying what I called “Undrafted Free Agents”: posters’ personal favorites that didn’t make the list of 101. (I had my own list of #1 Character scenes that overlapped with WoW’s list, but many weren’t among the 101 – including my top Tyrion and Stannis scenes.)

      If you’re asking about my personal Perpetual Rewatch list, the answer is yes: I’m sure several S7 scenes are going to be on it. I usually “nominate” scenes in the offseason during rewatches when I find myself rewinding certain scenes to view again because I realize how good they were. I’m sure this year’s nominees will include Arya’s sparring session with Brienne; Sam and Jorah; Jon & Dany; and a bunch of action scenes from Ep. 4.

      What about you? Any S7 scenes that you think will crack your Top 100? * Or that you’d consider “rewatchable”?

      *(Not a simple task…with 66 episodes and counting, there’s a lot of competition.)

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    150. What I don’t get about the upcoming gathering is why Cersei invited Sansa. I assume she knows from Tyrion that Jon waas named KITN, or even if not, we know from Hot Pie that everybody is aware that Jon is the King in the North.

      This goes back to the first episode of this season, when Cersie is naming their enemies, and she says Sansa (not Jon) is in the North. Is this the writer’s way of emphasizing Sansa’s importance? Or is it only because Cersie hates other women so much that she focuses more on other women as an “enemy” than men. Or a bit of both?

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    151. WorfWWorfington:

      And remember something: When Ned got home, he and Catelyn hadn’t been married long. And it was an arranged marriage. They grew to love each other, but Robb was conceived out of duty, not love. Ned didn’t know if he could truly trust her.

      Add in that even if he told her, they couldn’t tell the world. Robert would want Jon killed as a rape abomination. If Robert ever truly believed Lyanna left him willingly, it would shake him to his core, to the point where he’d kill everything that didn’t run fast enough from him.

      So, it’s probably better for Cat to feel she is the wronged wife than have to pretend to be so. So Ned keeps the secret.

      As for Benjen…
      It’s possible he figured out, or suspected, about Jon’s parentage. After all, it doesn’t take a math genius to figure out the timing of the “kidnap” and Jon appearing. Stannis doesn’t believe Ned cheated, so you’d have to think Benjen found the whole idea implausible.

      Is that why? Did he get tired of biting his tongue every time he heard Jon’s mother being referred to as a tavern wench? Did he threaten to say if Ned didn’t get Catelyn to back off the kid?

      Good points and questions. I have become more interested in the human drama behind this whole secret and your post and others are really bring out some good points. What an emotional mess with potentially fatal consequences. The only option Ned had was to keep it a secret from everyone he could.

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    152. MoaKaka,

      I think she sent letters out to anyone she thought might be stupid enough to come and potentially end up killed or a hostage.

      Cersei got plans for this meeting.

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    153. About Ep. 7’s title, “The Dragon and the Wolf”:
      For some reason the first thing I flashed on was Jon Snow telling Dany about Maester Aemon, his relationship with him, and the valuable lessons he learned from him.

      (For Dany, there’s been lots of “Mad King this and Mad King that”; talk of “terrible fathers”; and going full-on fire & blood.” For balance, I was thinking it’d be nice to learn about a truly noble and humble Targ – one who could’ve ascended the Iron Throne but declined it in favor of his brother (?) for the good of the realm.)

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    154. Lulus Mum,

      It’s a reference to Season 4, Episode 1. When Tyrion, Pod and Bronn are greeting the Dornish houses. One of the sigils is three yellow balls and Bronn giggles at it.

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    155. WorfWWorfington:
      Lulus Mum,

      It’s a reference to Season 4, Episode 1. When Tyrion, Pod and Bronn are greeting the Dornish houses. One of the sigils is three yellow balls and Bronn giggles at it.

      House Dalt of Lemonwood… I know some think he has been around for too long, but Bronn continues to deliver the best one-liners! And man, did Tormund and Sandor’s convo leave me laughing in the last episode 😀

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    156. Lulus Mum,

      LOL I cannot believe I would even think of going to a GOT wedding. I think it was the excitement of the episode title that made me giddy 😄
      Thank you for the warning 😓

        Quote  Reply

    157. Kris Logan,

      The purpose is for Jon to internally go through hell, like he usually does. The real struggle will be from within. Jon has always been an internal character, he rarely lets anyone in. Also, I would imagine the news will be of substantial personal importance to his aunt and to how the politics in the North are resolved. And frankly it may be, if what Rhaegar believed was correct, that Jon must fulfill a sacrificial role. Perhaps, just like Harry understood at some point that he was the last Horcrux, Jon will understand that he must sacrifice himself, that that was the point of his entire existence, in order to defeat the Night’s King. Jon is an absolute tragic character.

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    158. MoaKaka:
      What I don’t get about the upcoming gathering is why Cersei invited Sansa.I assume she knows from Tyrion that Jon waas named KITN, or even if not, we know from Hot Pie that everybody is aware that Jon is the King in the North.

      This goes back to the first episode of this season, when Cersie is naming their enemies, and she says Sansa (not Jon) is in the North.Is this the writer’s way of emphasizing Sansa’simportance?Or is it only because Cersie hates other women so much that she focuses more on other women as an “enemy” than men.Or a bit of both?

      WorfWWorfington:
      MoaKaka,

      I think she sent letters out to anyone she thought might be stupid enough to come and potentially end up killed or a hostage.

      Cersei got plans for this meeting.

      She might also still think that Sansa played a role in Joffrey’s death. She knows Olenna organized the whole thing now, but she certainly never misses anything that happens in KL and she’s paranoid. Sansa spent a lot of time with Olenna and Margaery there, and Cersei knew what Sansa really thought of Joffrey and that she’s prayed for his death before.

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    159. Raenarys,

      Nice try. But it’s not. This title is about Lyanna/Rhaegar and Dany/Jon. Jon has only being ice so far. He is nowhere fire here. And they just said that the entire show central focus is linked to Dany and Jon’s relationship.

      So. BOOM. You’re wrong.

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    160. Che:
      Exciting title; it implies so much. I think it’ll be primarily about Jon and Dany, but will also refer to Lyanna and Rhaegar. I also hope the omission of “lion” will suggest he downfall of Cersei by the end of the episode.

      Tin foil coming: I have a feeling, with all the foreshadowing in the last episode, that Jon and Dany will make a baby and that they will probably do so in the next episode. I also think they will find out next episode (with the pace this series has been moving, not too infeasable), either as the last scene or towards the end of the episode. I also predict a wedding between the two in this next episode (either before or after finding out about baby): which would perfectly sum up how this episode is all about the relationship between the dragon (Dany) and the wolf (Jon). However, thrown in there will be the story of Rhaegar and Lyanna. I’m not sure whether Jon will find that out this series or next though.

      I think Jon and Dany will only find out about Jon being a targaryn only in season 8. Not much time now. And yes, im 100% sure dany will get pregnant. There is so much subtle talks about how she can’t have children..but the thing is: “only death can pay for life”. She lost Viserion, but she will have a baby.

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    161. Wimsey,

      Enjoyed this post, good points, and funny letter!

      I am wondering about the impact it will have on Jon when he learns of Ned’s choice. Ned chose to protect a defenseless baby, his nephew and son of his beloved sister. His lie created tension in the Stark family and brought some shame upon his character and his family. Jon grew up with no motherly love but he did have love and support from Ned and some of the other family members. No one died because of the secret. So, going with half baked ideas and tinfoil hats, I am thinking Jon will be incredibly moved by the fact Ned made this choice to protect him. As Jon and Beric say, they fight for the living, for those who cannot defend themselves, and Jon has said the children should not be held responsible for the actions of their fathers (i.e. being a Targ). Jon is trying to live by the same ideals that, unbeknownst to Jon, Ned used (knowingly or not) to protect Jon’s life. Sure there will be frustration, confusion, even anger, but I think he will realize that it was an act of love for a defenseless baby. But I dunno! I cannot wait to see how this plays out.

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    162. I’ve decided that I really want Gendry to mess with Cersei’s mind and drive her completely over the edge. If he really does look like young Robert, I think she should start seeing him in the background everywhere. He could hide behind the throne and whisper “Gendry Baratheon, Black of Hair!” Eventually she’ll become so paranoid of seeing and hearing this that she’ll take a cue from Tommen and jump out the window. I mean, she’s already wearing his scalp.

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    163. WorfWWorfington

      MoaKaka: What I don’t get about the upcoming gathering is why Cersei invited Sansa. I assume she knows from Tyrion that Jon waas named KITN, or even if not, we know from Hot Pie that everybody is aware that Jon is the King in the North.

      MoaKaka, I haven’t fully understood this either… We know how precise we must be, when reading the minds of the writers, so I just saw that scene with Maester Wolkan again. If my English isn’t playing tricks on me, it’s actually not specified, that the invitation is from Cersei. Sansa says: “It’s an invitation…(pause)…to King’s Landing”.

      When first watching the episode on Sunday, I initially thought it was sent from Dragonstone, since they initiated this entire mass meeting. Still it doesn’t make sense, as the people in DS also know, that Jon is KITN.

      I would really love to hear how this invitation should be interpreted…

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    164. Lulus Mum:
      Ginevra,
      Awww, thanks honey. My posts are often long because I try to explain things, so if I just give each word its own post I could probably break the all time record fairly quickly. And no doubt get banned in the attempt, which I would rather avoid. At least until the penguin prophecy has been fulfilled 😀

      Ha! We should ask Jared to do the same. In a way, I’d hate to break up the beauty of such posts, but it does appeal to my problem-solving, deciphering nature. #patchworkposts

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    165. MoaKaka,

      She says in the premiere that Jon has been named KiTN and Sansa stands beside him so she knows.And she only says that it’s an invitations to KL not from KL.Tyrion might have sent it considering they are organizing the gathering.

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    166. Dead Dane Walking,

      Perhaps she was invited to support Jon and the north in general, and also in case he didn’t make it back alive. It is feasible that the ravens were sent before knowing that Jon was alive, the timing as always of these things are pretty grey.

      I also considered that we do not know how much of anything to believe in WF now at all. Perhaps she has other masks we are not aware of and she is/has impersonated Sansa and/or LF already.

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    167. Grimwynd: also in case he didn’t make it back alive

      I’ll take that one for now, just to have a little peace of mind before bedtime! I should learn not to ask questions just before bedtime 🙂
      The last Arya-part I’m not too a fond of. I can’t completely dismiss it (and it is vaguely possible), but I just don’t want to believe it!

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    168. Pigeon:
      I’ve decided that I really want Gendry to mess with Cersei’s mind and drive her completely over the edge. If he really does look like young Robert, I think she should start seeing him in the background everywhere. He could hide behind the throne and whisper “Gendry Baratheon, Black of Hair!” Eventually she’ll become so paranoid of seeing and hearing this that she’ll take a cue from Tommen and jump out the window. I mean, she’s already wearing his scalp.

      can’t stop laughing!

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    169. BranTheBlessed: I’ve actually read a good theory on this. Jon ‘waking dragons from stone’ might be metaphor for Jon getting Dany pregnant ( at this point she believes her womb is cursed/dead/asleep ) and thus restore the Targaryan dynasty with dragon heirs.

      Oh, I like this theory. I wrote some posts last night on one of these threads saying I thought events were leading to pregnancy – and I changed my view on Dany’s visions in the House of the Undying after seeing Ep 6. In the visions, she sees Drogo and the Baby beyond the Wall, in a tent on the ice. I used to think it meant that she would die beyond the Wall and join them. Now I think the visions have come true, but in another way: she did indeed leave one of her “babies” beyond the wall. Viserion. And with her interest in Jon, she is leaving Drogo on ice, as well. Whatever, I hope her love for Jon and the mingling of Targ blood is enough to awaken her womb. I hope I’m still around for the 8th season. sigh

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    170. Lulus Mum: It’s also my 50th birthday on sunday so I will be brimming with sugar from cake and fizzy pop

      Happy, happy birthday dear. I’m saying it now in case I’m in too much of a tizzy to remember on Sunday. Live well as you can, love as fully as you can, and don’t sweat the small stuff. And stay in touch during the off-season 🙂

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    171. Ten Bears,

      Thanks for the info…

      I like the hidden meanings and foreshawdowing of dialog and there has been a ton of outstanding dialog in season 7!

      My two favorite season 7 episodes are The Queen’s Mercy and The spoils of War… before the battle. (I’ve seen enough battles)

      I like when Jon told Sansa “You’re my sister but I am King of the North” then they talk about something else and Jon’s laughs… and Jon says that their father Ned told him “whatever is said after “but” is BS.”
      Jon is speaking the truth without knowing what he is doing.

      Jon arriving at Dragonstone and his first meeting with Daenerys is epic too. Both of them deserve an Emmy as soon as possible!!!!!

      Tyrion and Jon’s (who’s a better looking brooder conversation while standing on top of the dragonstone cliff) is outstanding too.

      I am sure there will be more greatest scenes from “the Dragon and the Wolf”

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    172. Hodors Bastard: Heck, the three-headed dragon conversation might return depending on who the NK actually is! Doh!

      heh, now that would be an ironic twist! Perhaps we’ll learn that the real enemy is R’hllor, and that the prophecy is about thwarting him/her/it with the aid of the White Walkers! Still, I would have expected some small clues to this effect (in either medium) by now. Or have I just missed them?

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    173. Aegon the Icedragon,

      re: Catelyn. I heard an interesting point from Joanna Robinson on one of her podcast (cast of Kings, I think), that perhaps the reason Ned didn’t tell Cat about Jon is that Cat is a POV character in books and if she knew the truth about Jon, we would know and there would be no secret. To me, this makes as much sense as anything as I find it a hard sell that Ned wouldn’t tell Cat at some point–at the beginning of GOT she is made out to be loyal and wise and and a good lady of Winterfell, and it seems odd that Ned’s “honour” would be such that allows her to suffer and Jon to suffer when there doesn’t seem to be any reason to suggest she would be anything but supportive (Tully house motto and all),

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    174. Ali Oop:
      Aegon the Icedragon,

      re: Catelyn. I heard an interesting point from Joanna Robinson on one of her podcast (cast of Kings, I think), that perhaps the reason Ned didn’t tell Cat about Jon is that Cat is a POV character in books and if she knew the truth about Jon, we would know and there would be no secret. To me, this makes as much sense as anything as I find it a hard sell that Ned wouldn’t tell Cat at some point–at the beginning of GOT she is made out to be loyal and wise and and a good lady of Winterfell, and it seems odd that Ned’s “honour” would be such that allows her to suffer and Jon to suffer when there doesn’t seem to be any reason to suggest she would be anything but supportive (Tully house motto and all),

      Well, that certainly speaks to George’s motivation, but not Ned’s. Ned should be unconcerned and unaware of the reader, of course. I’m sure Ned’s motivation was the promise, and yet I do wonder why he’d made the promise in the first place without specifying “only Cat.”

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    175. MoaKaka:
      “What I don’t get about the upcoming gathering is why Cersei invited Sansa.”

      I didn’t get that either. I thought Cersei wanted Sansa’s head on a spike (pike?); even though Olenna confessed to Jaime that she poisoned Joffrey, I didn’t get the impression that Cersei has exonerated Sansa of regicide.

      I gather that the invitation was not to an inaugural Little Dove Banquet & Fundraiser, to formally apologize to Sansa for wrongly accusing her.

      I actually thought the “invitation” was a ruse cooked up by Sansa as an excuse to get Brienne out of WF. But then other posters speculated that it was simply the writers’ shortcut for getting Brienne in the same place at the same time as Jaime in Episode 10.

      All I know is that Sansa should’ve learned her lesson about ignoring Brienne’s advice, or ditching her and relying on WeaselFinger.

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    176. Ten Bears,

      My take on that invitation is the following: when Sansa receives the scroll, she reads: “It’s an invitation… to King’s Landing”. She never mentions to whom it is addressed. My guess is that the invitiation was addressed to Jon Snow as KITN. She omits to mention this detail when discussing with Brienne, since it’s the perfect excuse to remove her from Winterfell…

      I think that we will find out the next episode the reason for sending Brienne away. For the moment it serves two motives: to increase the Sansa/Arya tension, and to give Brienne an opportunity to reunite with Jaime (and maybe Sandor). Regarding the first part, and since it’s a quote from the books:

      “Always keep your foes confused. If they are never certain who you are or what you want, they cannot know what you are like to do next. Sometimes the best way to baffle them is to make moves that have no purpose, or even seem to work against you. Remember that, Sansa, when you come to play the game.”
      I have much more confidence in Sansa than you do. I don’t think sending Brienne away has anything to do with hurting Arya.

      What truly baffles me is why on earth would Brienne want Sansa to go back to King’s Landing! Particularly if she was summoned by Cersei!?!

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    177. Ali Oop: To me, this makes as much sense as anything as I find it a hard sell that Ned wouldn’t tell Cat at some point–at the beginning of GOT she is made out to be loyal and wise and and a good lady of Winterfell, and it seems odd that Ned’s “honour” would be such that allows her to suffer

      But this is exactly why Ned could not tell Catelyn. Her sense of honor encompasses prudish and shrewish: and although Ned’s bastard was bad enough, his sister’s bastard would have been orders of magnitude worse. (There is no reason to think that Ned knew that Rhaegar & Lyanna married; moreover, given that Rhaegar’s annulment was done in secret, convincing Catelyn that it was true would have been a tall order!)

      There simply would be too great a chance that Catelyn would demand that Jon be sent away or turned over to Robert for execution. After all, if it was ever discovered that Ned was harboring Rhaegar’s son, then all of their head were on the chopping block figuratively and possibly literally.

      Ginevra: yet I do wonder why he’d made the promise in the first place without specifying “only Cat.”

      It would have been “Catelyn”: remember, Ned barely knew his wife at that time: he had not yet developed any feelings for Catelyn and she probably would have been very far from his mind. (If he was thinking of any woman, then it was Ashara Dayne: he had, after all, just helped kill her brother!) Ned might have spent as little as one night with Catelyn: what he would have known was her general reputation at most. Now, he might have thought that he could tell her if she demonstrated any sort of flexibility: but given how much she clearly hated his bastard, it would have been clear that he could not let her know who Jon really was.

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    178. Tron79: Do you think Drogon will lay an egg somewhere? Seems like the world needs more dragons even if it’s not in the budget…

      Conservation biology seems to be unknown in Westeros. However, I’d recommend a breeding program starting ASAP.

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    179. Ginevra: Well, that certainly speaks to George’s motivation, but not Ned’s.Ned should be unconcerned and unaware of the reader, of course.I’m sure Ned’s motivation was the promise, and yet I do wonder why he’d made the promise in the first place without specifying “only Cat.”

      I actually have a different view of this. Telling Cat would have been the WORST thing Ned could do. She hated Jon because she thought he was Ned’s bastard. If she knew the truth, knew how much danger Ned was putting HER children in with his little secret, she would have lost her mind.
      Had Cat accepted Jon, mothered him and raised him as her own Ned would have told her I think, because he would have trusted her. When she didnt, he knew the secret (and promise) was his to keep.

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    180. selena: When she didnt, he knew the secret (and promise) was his to keep.

      Indeed, Catelyn’s hatred for Jon was a great smokescreen. “Catelyn hates Ned’s bastard” would get repeated over and over, cementing in peoples’ minds that Jon was Ned’s bastard. I don’t know if Ned could have completely anticipated that – he barely knew his wife, after all – but it proved to be fortuitous.

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    181. Wimsey:

      It would have been “Catelyn”: remember, Ned barely knew his wife at that time: he had not yet developed any feelings for Catelyn and she probably would have been very far from his mind.(If he was thinking of any woman, then it was Ashara Dayne: he had, after all, just helped kill her brother!)

      “Only Cat” was a reference to Littlefinger’s missing line when he threw Lysa from the moondoor, Wimsey.

      selena: I actually have a different view of this. Telling Cat would have been the WORST thing Ned could do. She hated Jon because she thought he was Ned’s bastard. If she knew the truth, knew how much danger Ned was putting HER children in with his little secret, she would have lost her mind.Had Cat accepted Jon, mothered him and raised him as her own Ned would have told her I think, because he would have trusted her. When she didnt, he knew the secret (and promise) was his to keep.

      Ned’s book nightmares make it clear that his single greatest regret in his entire lifetime is giving his promise to his sister, with that promise presumably being not to tell anyone of Jon’s parentage, even his wife.

      Whether that was a wise decision or not, I’m not sure. Catelyn was a bit of a bitch so it is hard for me to relate to (and thus predict) her decisions, but I do think she’d have been happier protecting a secret Targ who was also family rather than fostering a symbol of her husband’s infidelity.

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    182. firstone,

      I’d put Arya/Nymeria in the top 100. Have to put a scene from field of fire in there. The whole scene itself actually. Drogon swooping in just in time at the frozen lake. That entire scene was awesome. Not quite BoB or Field of Fire but still awesome. Jon touching Drogon. Cersei with Ellaria & Tyene in the prison cell. Arya/Brienne sparring. There’s been quite a few in my opinion.

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    183. Thronetender,

      Maybe she was leaving Drogo (Jon) in the ice as well as Viserion (Rhaego). Difference this time is that Jon comes back as himself. Whereas Drogo was catatonic. So in essence Jon coming back is Drogo returning to her and not staying behind with the baby. Thus fulfilling a bit of the prophecy and the vision from the House of the Undying.

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    184. Ali Oop,

      That’s a simple and very reasonable explanation. Makes a lot of sense. I can see GRRM thinking that. Plus, I think Ned would have eventually told Cat but then again Cat was all about her children & harboring Jon (Rhaegar’s son) could lead to her family’s extinction if found out. She wouldn’t have wanted the risk. I think she still would have been trying to get Jon to the Wall or elsewhere.

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    185. 79 minutes of Jeremy Podeswa?? That’s almost a feature length film!

      I have faith Podeswa can make me forget the disaster that was ep. 6 :). Now I’m pumped.

      Flayed Potatoes: More R+L=J. Can’t wait!!!!

      I kinda wish they had just named the episode R+L=J 🙂

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    186. A Dornish Tyrell,

      Several weeks ago, before Arya returned to WF, I excerpted dalogue from S2, e4 and e6 (LF+Cat; LF+Tywin, with Arya overhearing) along with S4e7 (Hot Pie+Brienne) and speculated that if Brienne ever had an in-depth discussion with Arya about her whereabouts since Ned’s death, Brienne would realize the Jaime-for-Sansa+Arya hostage exchange was a scam: the Lannisters never had Arya, and Catelyn was duped. Arya could also deduce from what she’d overheard (ar Harrenhal) that LF orchestrated the deception.
      While I don’t know if the show will revisit this*, LF conniving to get Brienne sent away would prevent Arya from discovering his douchebaggery.

      I don’t know why Sansa was so dismissive of Brienne’s concerns about LF…

      * To my recollection, when Brienne got the KL with Jaime, she never protested: Hey wait a minute, how come Arya’s not here? I was commanded to exchange Jaime for 2 Stark girls. Now you’re telling me you only have Sansa!”

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    187. Aegon the Icedragon,

      I have always thought that in the episode where Jon says goodbye to Bran before he goes to the wall and Cat gives him the evil eye , Cat has the conversation with Ned re Jon and Ned goes to take Cat’s hand and says ‘Cat’ as though he wanted to tell her something, she pulls away and the moment is gone and in that moment I wonder if he was going to tell her at last.

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    188. GeekFurious,

      Oh Geek…….

      I know the show is sometimes accused of being “fan-servicy” (I know there’s no such word but if the Bard of Avon made up words so can I) – but I’m pretty sure most folk are invested in the dragon (dragon haters I said MOST not all!) so I’m pretty sure a lot of people sobbed metaphorically into their collective cocoas about Viserion going down. Also Yara is (was) quite a popular character and I’m sure there wouldn’t be many fans who wanted her wicked uncle to get his maulers on her.

      Lulu’s Mum
      Compared to me you are still a chick with the eggshell round you (I’m MARGINALLY younger than GRRM)! Many happies for your day.

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    189. Luka Nieto,

      Yeah I’m guessing the episode in which the big battle with the WW with Azor Ahai stuff and all will be called ASOIAF and the finale of the show ADOS. It is known.

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    190. Ginevra,

      The promise he made to Lyanna, whom he loved more than Cat at that point, was to protect Jon from Robert, not to ‘not tell anyone’. He would have kept that promise, his sisters dying wish, before anything in his life. How he chose to accomplish his promise was by claiming Jon as his bastard son. He made a decision and kept it. The only way to know the secret would remain a secret is to tell no one. Once you tell even one person the knowledge is out of your control. It doesn’t mean he didn’t love Cat that he didn’t tell her. It shows how much he loved his sister.

      Howland Reed was there, so he knows. But he and Ned had a bond/friendship that Ned trusted. If he didn’t trust him, Ned would have had to come up with another way to protect Jon.

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    191. Dame of Mercia: Lulu’s Mum
      Compared to me you are still a chick with the eggshell round you (I’m MARGINALLY younger than GRRM)! Many happies for your day.

      Likewise – both the age and the best wishes

      And, like Dame, I’m seriously concerned for Yara… (and for poor dead Viserion, now a wight).

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    192. Dame of Mercia: I know the show is sometimes accused of being “fan-servicy” (I know there’s no such word but if the Bard of Avon made up words so can I)

      The “fan-servicey” stuff was the pointless male-bonding blather while wight-talking.

      However, in many ways, this episode was about as fan-unservicing as possible: it nuked the long-cherished “three heads = three riders” idea that had been taken as almost figurative gospel. Instead, it turned out to be like literal Gospel! 😀

      Ginevra: “Only Cat” was a reference to Littlefinger’s missing line when he threw Lysa from the moondoor, Wimsey.

      lol! So I see! Consider my nose whapped….

      However, much of what gets missed when people ask why Ned didn’t tell Catelyn is that Ned barely knew her at that time. In the books, I think that Catelyn notes that she didn’t truly meet Ned until their wedding day or something crazy, and that Ned rode off the next day.

      And after Ned saw how Catelyn responded to Jon, well, that would have pretty much cemented his decision. Ned really was in a no-win situation: he had the choice of shooting his right foot or his left foot at that point. But, then: that is what these stories are!

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    193. Thronetender,
      Awwww thanks sweetie. I shall only sweat the important stuff, like will someone PURLEAZE kill the characters I hate before I have to do it myself! Then I’ll be here burbling away during the off season as always 😀

      Wimsey,
      I was only born in 2003 but the show has aged me badly. Getting really het up about the fate of fictional characters is hard work! 😉

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    194. Dame of Mercia, spaewife
      And thanks for your best wishes too, fellow Watchers 😀 I’m also a big Yara fan so fingers, eyes, toes etc crossed for her too! People I have a soft spot for are usually doomed but now we have probably only around ten hours left, I am cautiously hopeful at least some of them will make it. She says instantly condemning everyone to untimely deaths. Perhaps I could solve everything by rooting for the Night King instead? 😉

      ygritte,
      Sorry, about half of those are me rambling on about other things, as per usual 😉

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    195. Lulus Mum: I was only born in 2003 but the show has aged me badly. Getting really het up about the fate of fictional characters is hard work!

      Geez, why didn’t I think of that one when I was a year short of being able to buy beer (legally)?

      WorfWWorfington: It’s possible he figured out, or suspected, about Jon’s parentage. After all, it doesn’t take a math genius to figure out the timing of the “kidnap” and Jon appearing. Stannis doesn’t believe Ned cheated, so you’d have to think Benjen found the whole idea implausible.

      Is that why? Did he get tired of biting his tongue every time he heard Jon’s mother being referred to as a tavern wench? Did he threaten to say if Ned didn’t get Catelyn to back off the kid?

      There is next to no chance that Benjen was sent to the Wall against his will, or to get him to be quiet. For one thing, that would only increase the chances of him saying something. For another, read/listen to how he talks about the Watch: it was his vocation. People consigned to monastaries or convents were almost always bitter people: but Benjen seems to have been content and still on genuinely good terms with his family.

      As for Stannis, he was noting that Ned Stark did not go around banging tavern wenches the way that Robert did. Stannis did not seem to doubt that Jon was Ned’s son: in fact, Stannis seems quite convinced that Jon is Ned’s son. What Stannis was noting is that he thought that Jon had noble “blood” on both sides. That was important, because Selyse was assuming that Jon’s “commoner genes” would make him less worthy.

      In the books, it was widely believed that Ned had been in love with a noblewoman, but that he wound up having to marry Catelyn in order to get the Tullys to side with Robert. The show never went into detail about this, but Stannis’ allusions are along these lines.

      At this point, I think that we should assume that, other than Ned, only Howland Reed and the people at the Tower of Joy knew who Jon’s parents really were. I expect that we will learn that the serving people there have all been living with the Crannogmen since then: Ned’s choices would have been to kill them or basically exile them some place with little chance of their gossip getting south. He might even have kept some at Winterfell, but I think that we would have gotten stronger clues about that by now. And basically, it comes down to this: if you want something kept secret, then do not tell anybody who does not need to know. Were there reasons to tell Benjen or Catelyn? Sure: but the reasons to not tell those people outweighed them, at least in Ned Stark’s mind. Was Ned happy living with this untruth? No: but he would have been less happy risking his nephew’s life. You can write “But that was unfair to X….” all you like: but it was more unfair to Jon (and to the deceased Lyanna) to let anyone else in on the secret. It was also unfair to the deceased Lyanna to let people know the truth about her dishonorable actions. After all, the dead cannot defend themselves, and Ned probably never learned the whole truth of why Lyanna did what she did.

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    196. Carole H:
      Black Raven,

      Now Black Raven there is Thronecast! BTW I recommend you avoid it next week 😲

      Hi Carole, good job I decided to check back on this article else I would have missed your post. It was about half the size when I first read it. Its just impossible to keep up with WotW when the latest season is being aired and with several new articles being posted each day! My head just can’t handle it and articles which were posted only the day before soon get pushed down the stack and disappear into the noise!

      Yep, I guessed from your post that a certain despicable character who neither of us like will be a guest on the final Thronecast for S7ep7 next Monday 🙁

      It seems to be a regular thing on Thronecast that prize dickhead Jonathan Ross gets invited onto the first show (well, it was that ‘War Room’ special this time) and also the last. I guess we’ll just have to grin and bear it and hope he’s half sensible and not continually coming out with smart arse remarks or puerile comments 😛

      I’ve really enjoyed S7 so far and looking forward to the final episode. I’ve had no problem with the pacing or that we only get 7 episodes this season. Neither why things ‘are as they are or happen as they do’ which the nitpickers love to criticize at every opportunity – and I don’t give a monkey’s toss as to where the WW found the chains to pull the dragon out from the frozen lake – LOL 😀

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    197. Jon Snowed: There is no way Cersei is bending the knee, she will die I expect but she won’t bend the knee.

      Well, her knees might bend by buckling as she dies! But, I agree: she’s not going to submit; in her mind, she is the Queen. I do wonder what sort of nasty surprise she has in store.

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    198. Wimsey: Well, her knees might bend by buckling as she dies!But, I agree: she’s not going to submit; in her mind, she is the Queen.I do wonder what sort of nasty surprise she has in store.

      I am nearly as anxious to see Qyburn’s reaction to the walker than what plans Cersei has.

      He will either be truly excited from a ‘research’ perspective (because he is a freak like that), or he will be dismissive because hey…. he has already made his own zombie Mountain, what’s so special?

      On a somewhat related strain about ‘the risen’…. I am not certain that the Three Headed Dragon idea is completely done for. This is a BIG stretch, but bear with me a moment.

      Jon was saved in the nick of time by Benjen. And while they have used him for a couple of last-minute-save-someones-butt scenes, the fact that he is a walker fighting for the living has been largely glossed over. I have a theory that Benjen’s true purpose in the story at this point is to show that not everyone(thing) raised from the dead follows the NK. Perhaps it is a ‘strong will’ or some other reason he still fights against the NK rather than for the NK.

      That in mind, we do not have to assume the dragon will bend to the NK’s will either. To me, seeing Benjen save Jon is a reminder of this at just the right time to make me think Viscerion may keep faithful to Dany

      Now the topper of my crazed idea is that Viscerion and Jon would then have an even deeper connection given they were both raised from the dead. (Despite being raised in totally different circumstances.)

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