Game of Thrones filming begins in Almería & a new casting call!

Dothraki

New pictures have surfaced of Game of Thrones season six filming in the Almería province of Spain. Numerous Dothraki extras and horses are on set.

Local representatives of Almería and Fresco Film Services commented on the commencing on shooting in the province, according to La Voz de Almería.

Antonio Jesus Rodriguez, the Deputy of Culture, reconfirmed that the shooting locations will include sites at El Chorrillo Sierra Alhamilla, Tabernas, Sorbas, Mesa Roldan in Carboneras and the Alcazaba. He also said that there could be another town in Almería added at the last minute.

Location manager Pedro Aráez says, “The value of Almeria is obvious: the semi-desert landscape is central to the choice of locations.”

Check out a few images from the new filming below, plus the latest casting notice to fall into our hands!

From Twitter,  via Kargaryen, we have the following images, which appear to showcase a number of the 2,400 extras we previously reported on,  and from the number of horses and costume stylings it looks like the Dothraki are in business!

You can view higher the high res versions of the photos here

Yahoo Noticias shared the below image of the set:

Spain 1

…while Ideal.es posted this one of the filming in Sierra Alhamillajuego-tronos-efe--575x323

Finally, D. shared the following picture on Twitter

Looks like there’s a lot going on in Almería right about now!


 

In other news, one of our sources has informed us of a new casting call!

Captain of the Tower. Aged 35 – 45. The captain is in charge of the security of a castle. He’s an able soldier, physically fit, commanding and capable. He has a lot of dialogue in a scene where he is with his superiors and has to make a difficult decision.  This is a one-scene part with leading cast. The role shoots for one week, commencing December 2nd in Northern Ireland.

What do we think, guys?  The location suggests he’ll be part of the Northern story-line, place your bets now!

183 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. Finally a new article! 😀

      Commander of the Tower? A new captain of the Shadow Tower? This is quite clearly Northern, but I wonder of this may be a one-scene discussion with the rest of the Night’s Watch what to do next – and he is not very succesful in discussing his point and gets shanked by a Main Cast member whose the best kept secret.

        Quote  Reply

    2. Ser Oromis Locke,

      It could be any one of a number of towers. This might be some Captain of the Tower in Westeros dealing with Euron’s invasion. It might be some Captain dealing with Daeny and the Dothraki. It might be some Captain at Riverrun. It might be some location we’ve never really seen in the books. After all, any place with a particular Guard Tower (or something like it) will have some analog of a Captain of the Tower: and that means that there are lots and lots of possibilities!

      The probability of it being any one tower therefore is pretty darned low.

        Quote  Reply

    3. Emilia posted a pic on Instagram with the Dany wig so even though she wasn’t in those pics I assume she’s back to Spain filming?

      I’m guessing Drogon shows up again in the scenes they will be filming in that area if that’s really Vaes Dothraki.

        Quote  Reply

    4. Yeah I would go with a NW man aswell.

      But honestly he could anyone.

      Interesting tought. The actor who plays Mallister the commander of the Shadow-tower, has unafortunatly died, and they already said they will not recast him. So maybe a new commander of the ST?

        Quote  Reply

    5. Just spit balling here: Jon goes to The Shadow Tower for reinforcments, commander tells him that getting murderated doesn’t release him from his vows, Ghost turns commander into wolf poop?

        Quote  Reply

    6. i see the green screen..

      Drogon is coming to Vas Dothrak!!

      I am almost starting to believe that fake script that came out few months back describing Drogon appearing out of nowhere in Vas Dothrak while Dany is on her “trial”

        Quote  Reply

    7. Dire Moon Moon,

      heh, Jon will probably be the first to say that even if he really was dead (and Jon almost certainly will be skeptical of this claim), then he is not released from his vows until he stays dead!

        Quote  Reply

    8. I hope it’s not some Kenning-esque creation to replace

      Brynden negotiating at Riverrun

      , but it’s the only thing with any precedent that comes to mind. Otherwise it could be anything…

        Quote  Reply

    9. I hope this Captain will be as great as Kenning in season 4!
      That scene has been amazing not only for Alfie (who’s always incredible) but also for this commander who’s been quite memorable even if he only had one scene.

      EDIT: the commenter before me is wishing pretty much the contrary LOL
      But I agree I don’t want this new character to replace anything Blackfish, in fact, the more Brynden, the better,

        Quote  Reply

    10. That could be interesting if the Night’s Watch was deciding whether or not to destroy the Bridge of Skulls. I doubt it though, because so far the other NW castles haven’t really gotten any attention.
      Also I keep trying to figure out why the Viewer’s Guide map labels random castles like Deep Lake, but not Eastwatch and Shadow Tower, or Deepwood Motte and White Harbor…

        Quote  Reply

    11. Bareeq: i see the green screen… Drogon is coming to Vas Dothrak!!

      That’s not what green screens are for… If anything, usually green screens would get in the way of inserting a CGI creature into a shot.

      I don’t know why people always assume a CGI creature will be involved when green screens show up. Those green screens are clearly set up for set extensions; for the little village facade to look like a sprawling city.

      Bareeq: I am almost starting to believe that fake script that came out few months back describing Drogon appearing out of nowhere in Vas Dothrak while Dany is on her “trial”

      The script summary was fake. Drogon showing up to save Dany in some way is literally the most commonly held theory (more of an outright assumption, really). I wouldn’t be surprised if the idiot who made up that fake summary happens to be right about that in particular. It was barely a gamble.

        Quote  Reply

    12. Wimsey,

      Sounds like old Jon Snow, for sure. Hopefully new unJon is a bit less pedantic and a lot more stabby now. Bastard Bowl seems to imply the latter. Maybe Ramsey gets turned into wolf poo, instead.

        Quote  Reply

    13. Queen of the Keys,

      Oh, we agree completely! Kenning was great and I really enjoy that they cast such small characters with so much attention to detail. It’d just be a shame to need a cool one-off character because Clive Russell couldn’t make it or something.

      Ideally we get both!

        Quote  Reply

    14. Bareeq,

      I didn’t read that fake script, but I have yet to see anyone think Drogon won’t reappear for Dany at some point while she’s with the Dothraki. Given it appears most of her time with the Dothraki will be spent in Vaes Dothrak, it doesn’t take anything being leaked to think he will reappear in Vaes Dothrak.

        Quote  Reply

    15. Yeah, that “summary” going around is definitely fake. It’s missing way too many confirmed things (basically all the things we’ve been unable to post for legal/not getting people fired reasons), and we’ve already seen new info that contradicts it. It’s going to get some stuff right because a) they used confirmed reports already out there from sites like us, and b) they used book info, common theories and popular wishful thinking.

        Quote  Reply

    16. Luka Nieto,

      Those green screens are clearly set up for set extensions; for the little village facade to look like a sprawling city.

      It’s both: Dany tries to post a selfie to weirnet, gets photo bombed by Drogon whose S6 head fills entire green screen.

      Goddamnit, Drogon.

        Quote  Reply

    17. Queen of the Keys:
      I hope this Captain will be as great as Kenning in season 4!
      That scene has been amazing not only for Alfie (who’s always incredible) but also for this commander who’s been quite memorable even if he only had one scene.

      I agree. I usually don’t like Ironborn characters, but that scene showed one of the few positive qualities of their culture: Defiance in the Face of Adversity.

      Until, of course, he got stabbed in the back, and the Ironborn seemed like their usual “opportunistic cowardly savages” selves once more ?

        Quote  Reply

    18. Kilgore Tully,

      Ah, glad to hear that!
      And I’m SO hoping Clive Russell will return… I may not post a lot on here but when I do is usually because of: 1) Brynden Tully hype; 2) Stark hype.
      #BlackfishComeBack2k15

      Tywin of the Hill,

      Uh, you may never know, when it’s about those Ironborns…!
      Completely OT too, everytime I see you commenting I remember that you said you liked my entry for the WOTW t-shirt contest and I wanted to take this chance for thanking you (: It meant a lot!

        Quote  Reply

    19. Tywin of the Hill: I agree. I usually don’t like Ironborn characters, but that scene showed one of the few positive qualities of their culture: Defiance in the Face of Adversity.

      That scene in season 4 was amazing, for exactly the reason you give. It may seem hyperbolic, but I’ll just say it: those few expendable characters gave more character to the ironborn as a distinct culture than the whole of season 2.

      As for the Captain of the Tower, well… it certainly sounds like a Northern character, considering the filming dates. Let’s see if I can make a list of all Northern and Riverlands casting:

      NORTH:
      Smalljon Umber
      Lord Arnolf Karstark
      A wry, articulate Lord
      Bolton officer
      Captain of the Tower
      Housemaid
      Patriarch

      RIVERLANDS:
      Flynn
      Lachlan
      Japeth
      A Septon (Meribald?)
      A Frey son

      That’s quite a lot, and we’re probably missing a few small roles anyway, and maybe a few secret large ones.

        Quote  Reply

    20. Luka Nieto: Drogon showing up to save Dany in some way is literally the most commonly held theory (more of an outright assumption, really).

      Ok, I guess.

      So, though we are in danger, we never despair
      ‘Cause we know that where there’s danger he is there
      He is there, on the land, on the sea, in the air!

      We’re not worryin’ at all
      We’re just listenin’ for his call
      “Here I come to save the day!”
      That means that Mighty D is on the way!

      I prefer the version with Andy Kaufman singing.

        Quote  Reply

    21. I don’t see how it’s “obviously” a Northern character.. From
      the specification my immediate thought is some sort of Castellan of Riverrun that will perhaps engage with Jaime/Bronn, rather than the Blackfish. As much as we’d all like to see this, it may make sense and especially if they have plans for the character (eliminates the repetitive escapism and in any case, I really can’t see him making it all the way back to RR after the RW).

        Quote  Reply

    22. Apollo,

      They are filming Riverrun much earlier than this.

      The assumption that it’s a northerner comes from the fact that they are filming lots of North stuff in December, which is when this character will film.

        Quote  Reply

    23. I think that this tower captain may be related to the Vale/North storyline. I think it is possible that he is a captain left in command by the Bolton’s to hold Moat Cailin. We see him in Season 6 holding Moat Cailin against the incoming Vale army. The reason I think this is because his filming time of early-mid December overlaps with when the actor of Yohn Royce said he would be filming again. Matches with Northern storyline as well. Thoughts?

        Quote  Reply

    24. Queen of the Keys:

      Completely OT too, everytime I see you commenting I remember that you said you liked my entry for the WOTW t-shirt contest and I wanted to take this chance for thanking you (: It meant a lot!

      You’re welcome 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    25. Erik,

      That’s pretty good speculation! I’ve wondered for a while if they will broach the subject of Moat Cailin in season six; getting it back for the Boltons was the climax for Theon’s storyline in season four, so it’d be nice if its existence is acknowledged. Even if, contrary to what you suggest, we don’t actually get to see Moat Cailin, I hope it’s brought up. It’s the only way North for an army, and the Boltons hold it. If they wanted, they could well make it into a big setpiece —I hope they are wise enough not to, though, as there wouldn’t be any truly main character involved. Honestly, I’d be surprised if we get to follow Littlefinger as his own storyline, before he becomes involved in the North with other characters. We have never followed Littlefinger. I doubt we’ll start now.

      Tywin of the Hill,

      Just an “alpha male patriarch” with a few lines. A minor role. Even the housemaid will appear in two episodes, more than whoever this “father” is.

        Quote  Reply

    26. Dire Moon Moon: Hopefully new unJon is a bit less pedantic and a lot more stabby now.

      Jon has to evolve gradually: he cannot just metamorphose! And he cannot be “unJon”: he has to stay Jon Snow, as the stories all are (at heart) about one fifth how start-of-book/season Jon grades into end-of-book/season Jon. The overarching story from the series will be more about how Thrones Jon -> Dream Jon than it will be for any other character save Daeny. (And it will be about equal, there: they are protagonists 1 and A, after all!)

      As for Jon being “pedantic” or “stabby,” I would not call him either. Tyrion is the only really pedantic character. And their societies as a whole are ones where what we call “stabby” is what they would call “bleeding heart pacifist.” 😀

      Sue the Fury: It’s going to get some stuff right because a) they used confirmed reports already out there from sites like us, and b) they used book info, common theories and popular wishful thinking.

      Shocking how adapting from books sort of limits the plausible scenarios! And, yeah, we already know that Drogon is going to be important here. The big change is that for once we do not know how.

        Quote  Reply

    27. Just because it is filming in December doesn’t mean it is a Northern character. They could very well film this scene in a studio. I would say it has to be either the Hightower in Oldtown or the Shadow Tower on the Wall. Since the NW doesn’t use titles such as ‘captain’, my best guess is the Hightower.

        Quote  Reply

    28. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      It’d be really nice if we got any hint that there will be some military action in Oldtown. That’s where I think Sam’s plot will climax. I won’t even guess at the context for Sam (what he will be trying to do at the Citadel in that moment), but I’d just like to see the ironborn sack Oldtown. Is that too much to ask?

      Or maybe Euron takes Victarion’s role directly and he shows up in Meereen in the late season! Who knows… We really have no idea what Euron will do in the show! The Kingsmoot taking place in the mid-season is confusing to begin with, and we know literally nothing else, unless I’m forgetting something.

        Quote  Reply

    29. My first thought was a hypothetical 6×10 with a bunch of very dead Freys, and someone important tells the captain of one of the towers to think hard on their next move.

      But Wimsey is usually right and today is no different: the odds of it being any particular thing? Pretty low.

        Quote  Reply

    30. Luka Nieto,

      Probably. The question is, what other main characters will be involved with this? At this point, the plotlines for the main characters should be uniting. It seems improbable that any leads (and particularly minor leads like Sam) will fly entirely solo this year!

      (Last year, only Jaime flew solo: they linked Theon’s and Sansa’s, and Tyrions and Daeny’s plotlines; I’d be surprised if someone like Sam flew solo this year.)

        Quote  Reply

    31. Sue the Fury,

      Well, as the old adage goes “You’ll never please all the people all of the time” but I think the majority of us appreciate what you and the other site-runners do especially as it’s done for free.

        Quote  Reply

    32. Is it possible this ‘Captain and his superiors’ and the choice he makes somehow involves the Stark children? Perhaps showing where Rickon has been, or is in charge of the tower at a castle where Sansa & Theon end up? That was the first thing I thought of – the tough decision is to trust the people at the gate (that they have not been sent by the Boltons for example. If a family suddenly was in charge of my ‘hood, and that family skinned people, I’d think twice about all decisions.)

        Quote  Reply

    33. yyeeaa new filming news!!

      that casting call is very interesting…it sounds like an important part in an important scene..
      the title of the character could be a misdirection..this “captian” could very well be someone in Meereen in a scene with Tyrion &Co (but would they have someone other then Grey Worm have a big part in a scene as an unsullied?)

        Quote  Reply

    34. Hmm, I suppose our tower commander could be in Riverlands…

      In the books, Jaime goes on a tour, sees two other castles besides RR…maybe we see the HH castellan?

      From the wiki:

      Jaime Lannister returns to take control and learns it is leaderless. Gregor had appointed Polliver as its castellan, but Polliver was killed by Sandor Clegane at the inn at the crossroads. Jaime clears out Gregor’s men and replaces the garrison with the pious regiment known as the Holy Hundred. Their leader, Ser Bonifer Hasty, is named castellan in an attempt to bring peace to Harrenhal

      Tough to tell unless they complete RR filming before December, and noone from the RR set is still filming in December

        Quote  Reply

    35. Scott:
      BTW, Michelle Fairley and an unspecified GOT actor are in Belfast. Maybe a short cameo in the Riverlands scenes?

      Pics or it didn’t happen….

        Quote  Reply

    36. Looks like rehearsals , for I guess, principal filming to start tomorrow?

      That is a honking big set up , not like when they had to hide the action at Blackwater by filming at night.

      An odd thing, there are two really weird looking ‘shipping’ containers in those photos, what’s in those?

        Quote  Reply

    37. Boojam,

      A shipping container is what a semi truck hauls around. There are several marked “G&H” in the pix. Were you referring to the peak-roofed structures? There are three in the bottom picture. Totes pens for the dragon stunt doubles, obv.

      #omgraptorscanopendoors!

        Quote  Reply

    38. Matt: So is everyone just going to simply ignore this?

      When it comes to Fairley, it’s definitely a “Pics or it didn’t happen” situation. We’ve had too many false-hype situations.

      Not to mention, Fairley is Northern Irish. It wouldn’t be a weird thing for her to be in Belfast, or to visit with someone from GOT while there. So basically we need her sighted on set, we need pics, we need something more concrete. Because everyone’s pretty sick of people starting rumors over nothing.

        Quote  Reply

    39. Matt: So is everyone just going to simply ignore this?

      It seems yes. If we have a “Shae” cameo it would be wonderful one with Cat (and one with Viserys for Dany, but is impossible lol)

      I have a friend as an extra in Almería now. I wonder when he’s gonna give some info

        Quote  Reply


    40. [QUOTE] When it comes to Fairley, it’s definitely a “Pics or it didn’t happen” situation. We’ve had too many false-hype situations.

      Not to mention, Fairley is Northern Irish. It wouldn’t be a weird thing for her to be in Belfast, or to visit with someone from GOT while there. So basically we need her sighted on set, we need pics, we need something more concrete. Because everyone’s pretty sick of people starting rumors over nothing.[/END-QUOTE]

      Agreed. I’ve had a couple of minor disagreements with you in the past on this same subject Sue, but that’s a near-as-damn-it perfect summation of the status quo re: Michelle Fairley/LSH.

      After three long years of it, no one hoping for her appearance frankly deserves to be punked by unsubstantiated sightings, fabricated actor tweets or rumour about this anymore. Unless it’s BACKED UP, or IT’S REAL.

      And while I’m certainly not accusing this guy of whom I know nothing about … for whatever reason, the internet still abounds with people who think it’s funny to mislead and downright lie – often going to considerable lengths in the process – about the possibility of this character showing up in the TV show, and it smarts each time they manage, yet again, to get your bloody hopes up.

      So yeah, it’s put up or shut up time for sure now. Well said. 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    41. Scott,

      Brynden Tully !? If my Spanish is still good and the person who tweeted is right Michelle was with the blackfish (last tweet in the conversation says the person who played her father or uncle)

        Quote  Reply

    42. Seriously,

      That idiot literally reported what we already knew. Exactly NOTHING of what he said has been confirmed; the things you claim he was “right” about was stuff we already knew, because it had been already reported from leaks. The rest is from the books or a common assumption about TWOW; and 0% of the stuff that doesn’t fit those categories has turned out to be right. Doesn’t that tell you anything? Also, Sue has said they have other spoilers they are unable to publish, yet they contradict the leaks. You may believe her or you may not; either way, that idiot troll didn’t say anything that we didn’t know or were pretty sure about by the time he published that fake summary.

        Quote  Reply

    43. Dire Moon Moon: A shipping container is what a semi truck hauls around. There are several marked “G&H” in the pix. Were you referring to the peak-roofed structures? There are three in the bottom picture. Totes pens for the dragon stunt doubles, obv.

      Yeah the two white ones that look like a small ‘bus’ without wheels. Dragon props, that would be cool.

        Quote  Reply

    44. Matt,

      No because the latest replies says she was (possibly) with the blackfish (if the person tweeting is to be trusted of course… And as there are no pictures we should take this with a grain of salt…)

        Quote  Reply

    45. Damien,

      This. I’d love to see LSH as much as anyone, but until I see a pic of her on set and in costume, it’s just BS trolling

      Boojam,

      Oh dear, I forgot my snark tag 🙁 Honestly, I have no idea what they’re for aside from storage space for anything that will fit in tem

        Quote  Reply

    46. Gudvon,

      I had a similar thought. He certainly did seem defensive over the fake bullshit writer being called an idiot.

      I wasn’t a big fan of LSH in the books, either.
      I know some people really, really, really want to see her, but I’m not one of those people.

        Quote  Reply

    47. I kept saying in previous years that LS really had not done anything in the published books yet. If she finally does something important in TWOW, then there is still a chance for the character on the show, though I wish they would have simply moved up her TWOW storyline to season 5, as her reveal would have been a perfect cliffhanger at the end of season 4. I still think she is cut from the show, and in a way I hope that she is. There really has been no set up for her appearance.

        Quote  Reply

    48. Hodor’s Bastard: picks up Sansa, who probably needs saving again soon.

      Oddly, I am suspecting that she will be safer than ever this year.

      Arya was always the Stark Girl (or, at this point, Stark Lady) I always saw winding up with Daeny.

      Sue the Fury: When it comes to Fairley, it’s definitely a “Pics or it didn’t happen” situation. We’ve had too many false-hype situations.

      Also, it would not be a cameo if LSH is in it. They have never done cameo “teases” for upcoming plotlines: quite the opposite, they have delayed the appearances of characters/plotlines relative to the books so that they start at the onset of seasons.

      To bang a drum that I’ve nearly broken over the last 2 years, if they were ever going to bring in LSH, then it would have been this year. LSH simply was not relevant to the second part of the Storm story or the Crows/Dragons story. (She occupies about 2 of the approximately 1000 pages covered by the novels.) And, of course, it was always going to depend on how uniquely relevant she was to the Winter story. It is entirely possible (and I would say increasingly probable) that if we ever get to read the end of Dream, then we will conclude that LSH was an unnecessary side-plot.

      mau: But GRRM listed LSH as a cut characters few months ago?

      Well, remember that GRRM and B&W are not on speaking terms because of their destruction of his novels, so he would not know….. 😀

        Quote  Reply

    49. I’m not a fan of

      LSH either. And I’m extremely sceptical that they could put that character in S6 in a natural way.

      But I would like to see Michelle Fairley as LSH because I think she is a great actress and she would be great.

      Maybe my statements are confusing. LOL

      So, to be clear. I don’t want to see LSH in the show, but I would like to see Michelle Fairley in that role in some form of a deleted scene or whatever, not as a part of the actual show.

        Quote  Reply

    50. Tyrion Pimpslap: though I wish they would have simply moved up her TWOW storyline to season 5

      They would have had to find a way to make her plotline relevant to one of the main characters “kill the boy/girl” storyline. As GRRM will be writing her plotlines for some lead characters “Nyah-nyah, B&W know but I don’t” story (wait: I’ve just taunted myself and now I’m sad… 🙁 ), it is possible that it simply would have undermined telling the Crows/Dragons story last year.

        Quote  Reply

    51. mau,

      Ah, the old “I hope that they do not do X; but if they do do X, then I hope it includes Y” argument!

      That’s always brave to make: people jump on you for “flip-flopping” even when you really are not.

        Quote  Reply

    52. mau,

      Not confusing at all. I don’t like that plot development one bit, and

      I can’t like the character (it’s not that I dislike her; she’s a non-entity, as of yet), yet, if someone can make something out of her, that would be Michelle Fairley.

        Quote  Reply

    53. mau:
      But GRRM listed LSH as a cut characters few months ago?

      Yeah, during the middle of last season. But Hibberd has posted interviews as if they are current/new before Like interviews with the cast and producers from the production/set. And then he saves publishing them for when their relevant episodes airs. But he doesn’t make clear when the interview takes place.

      Maybe these quotes were before D & D outlined season 6? Or at least before Martin read the script outlines.

      Reading between the lines, it definitely sounds like he argued for her inclusion

      http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/31/game-thrones-lady-stoneheart

      “Lady Stoneheart does have a role in the books,” Martin said. “Whether it’s sufficient or interesting enough… I think it is, or I wouldn’t have put her in. One of the things I wanted to show with her is that the death she suffered changes you.”

        Quote  Reply

    54. mitch: “One of the things I wanted to show with her is that the death she suffered changes you.”

      Usually, the way in which death changes you is that it makes you dead 😀

      Anyway, I don’t think you’re so much “reading between the lines” as “wishing meaning into existence between the lines.” Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure he would have liked the character to be included in the show, but in that particular quote he’s discussing his books and what he thinks the character is worth. That doesn’t tell us whether he argued for her inclusion or not.

        Quote  Reply

    55. Wimsey:
      Dire Moon Moon,

      heh, Jon will probably be the first to say that even if he really was dead (and Jon almost certainly will be skeptical of this claim), then he is not released from his vows until he stays dead!

      Nonsense. The reason GRRM came up with “and now his watch is ended” in the first place is entirely so that it can be said on Jon’s behalf. It will be said BEFORE he rises.

      Um, I guess.

        Quote  Reply

    56. Nymeria Warrior Queen: I know some people really, really, really want to see her, but I’m not one of those people.

      I really. really, really want to see Mother Mercy stay on the page. Makes no sense at all in the show, especially given the Mel/Jon story adjustments. Even as disparaged as it was, I still believe that my post-S4 essay regarding the LS ramifications of changing Roose’s iconic words from “Jaime Lannister sends his regards” to “The Lannisters send their regards” at the RW still has merit. 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    57. I think that LSH became a really controversial issue in fandom after S4.

      It seems to me that many of us realized after S4 that she actually doesn’t need to be a part of the show for the story to continue.

      After S4 many fans, including me, wanted the show to improve some parts of the books we didn’t like (LSH, YG, Arianne,..), and not to remain relatively faithful adaptations of the books, as it was in the first couple of seasons.

      And that is the reason why S5 became a controversial season in internet book fandom. Because some internet book fans didn’t think that D&D should change their relations to the books and adapt the story as a story, not as a compilation of events.

      And than many things that D&D wrote in S5 was a blasphemy for them. They killed of Stannis, Barristan, Shireen, cut YG plot, put Jaime in Dorne, Brienne and Sansa in the North, Tommen had sex…

      For them GoT became completely different story because D&D stopped following the events from the books.

      But for many of us, S5 was, with few exceptions moved to S6, combination of a good parts from the last two books and a good original material, because the last two books, just weren’t that good in our opinion.

      There is nothing D&D had cut from S5 and S6 that I thought should be in the show. I would cut even more in their place.

        Quote  Reply

    58. Luka Nieto,

      The only things I found interesting about LSH were

      that Nymeria dragged Catelyn’s corpse from the river, and Thoros refused to revive her, so Beric did it, dying in the process.Of course, that only ha to do with how she was reanimated, not the character, itself. I can’t imagine, even in the deft hands of Michelle Fairley, how they could make that character work…and I’m just speaking technically. The fact she can’t speak without holding where her throat was slit together, and even then almost no one can understand her, would that even really work onscreen? I don’t think so.

        Quote  Reply

    59. mitch,

      I don’t think that they didn’t know their final decision (whatever it is) about LSH long before they start writing S6.

      When you read that quote from GRRM it is clear that LSH serves as a metaphor in his books, not as something actually important for the plot.

        Quote  Reply

    60. Bongo: The reason GRRM came up with “and now his watch is ended” in the first place is entirely so that it can be said on Jon’s behalf. It will be said BEFORE he rises.

      But who is going to say it? And if just saying those words could free a man from those vows, then I think that it would be used more commonly!

      It is something that we’ve discussed before, but it bears re-raising. If Jon is “done” with the Watch, then how does he convince the outside world? Nobody is going to buy some cock-and-bull story about being raised from the dead. And, let’s face it: Northern Lords probably have heard crazier stories before beheading an AWOL Crow.

      And, really: how do they convince Jon? Jon is not the sort to buy into this. If Mel really raises him from the dead (as opposed to “just” miraculously healing him), then does Jon even believe that she did it: or does he simply assume that it was “just” a miraculous healing? (Both are potent magic: but the latter has to be a little more believable than the former.)

      I think that Jon dropped an important line to Mel last season with regard to Ygritte: “I still love her.” This suggests that important things do not end at death for Jon. And if he’s agreed to do something for life, then he’ll read that as doing it for all of his lives.

        Quote  Reply

    61. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Yeah, totally agree. But…

      I found the hanging of hapless Freys pretty funny, too.

      But she becomes critical to Jaime and Brienne later on

      Eager to see how D&D maintain that critcal effect on these arcs without her.

        Quote  Reply

    62. Bareeq:
      i see the green screen..

      Drogon is coming to Vas Dothrak!!

      I am almost starting to believe that fake script that came out few months back describing Drogon appearing out of nowhere in Vas Dothrak while Dany is on her “trial”

      That fake script was so fake. Bad fanfic by an insane person(angrygotfan). He’s worse than anyone in the fandom.

        Quote  Reply

    63. Wimsey,

      At the end of the day, we have pix of

      Kit in Stark gear, fighting beside men under Stark and Umber banners. Clearly, Jon resolves these internal conflicts by seasons end, if not before then.

      ETA: Apologies to all for going so wildly off topic 😛

        Quote  Reply

    64. Nymeria Warrior Queen:
      Luka Nieto,

      The only things I found interesting about

      LSH were

      Of course, that only ha to do with how she was reanimated, not the character, itself.I can’t imagine, even in the deft hands of Michelle Fairley, how they could make that character work…and I’m just speaking technically.

      For the sake of argument, in the show

      she could be able to speak, just very raspily.

        Quote  Reply

    65. Seriously: in previous

      Some of it was wrong. Stuff like

      Melisandre being alive til ep 10. We know a big female character dies in the beginning. I’m pretty sure Mel will give Jon the kiss of life. When she does this she will die and some of her spirit will be passed onto Jon. When she “saw” herself walking on the battlements of Winterfell or meeting Arya again, it’s through Jon’s eyes, not her own.

      Plus Sue & co obviously know more than they’re allowed to tell us and they can confirm that the fake plot summary was fake.

        Quote  Reply

    66. Wimsey,

      It’s a performative utterance, it acts to release him. The NW just needs to believe it. Who else cares? Just Ned. And NW are over, crushed by the falling wall

        Quote  Reply

    67. Considering we don’t know what happens in “The Winds Of Winter” (as so many folks state constantly!), we can’t say with any concrete finality the importance of pretty much any plotlines or characters from the show or books. Speculate all you want of course, but even if they change things like omitting LSH, there’s still….

      the major confrontation between Jaimie and Brienne and the (now) Outlaw brotherhood

      That plotline seems too major to just omit. Possible huge stakes for multiple character destinies And I don’t know how it will have the same emotional oomph without….

      Catelyn/Michelle Fairley

      But I’m sure they can figure out alternatives for the show if they are so averse to using that particular character (and we have gotten possible hints to that)

      Luka Nieto: Usually, the way in which death changes you is that it makes you dead

      Anyway, I don’t think you’re so much “reading between the lines” as “wishing meaning into existence between the lines.” Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure he would have liked the character to be included in the show, but in that particular quote he’s discussing his books and what he thinks the character is worth. That doesn’t tell us whether he argued for her inclusion or not.

      Yeah, but the main overall question was regarding her exclusion from the show.
      And D & D have said in an interview that Martin does not agree with all their decisions and has discussed/argued exclusions. Not in a furious angry way, of course.

      So yeah, this is just my PERSONAL “reading between the lines”. I percieve Martin’s seeming defensive posture on the matter, to possibly point specifically to D & D’s “perspective” on the matter.

        Quote  Reply

    68. Wimsey: This suggests that important things do not end at death for Jon. And if he’s agreed to do something for life, then he’ll read that as doing it for all of his lives.

      Only in spirit, I suspect. I think Jon has more dimensions than just being a member of the “Watch”. Of course, the Watch itself has become as politically toxic as it can get. And, also way too restrictive for Jon to maneuver in all directions he may be hoping for (getting attention from the Northern Lords or even greater Westeros). So, he may be able to assist or push or even one day save the Watch (on the assumption someone with any situational awareness at all takes command) from the outside.

      It seems the S6 battle pics of Jon in Stark clothing suggests this. I’m guessing he stays true to the mission (perhaps among other missions), but it would be unnecessarily difficult for him to try to do much from within. Wouldn’t his options open up considerably if he operates from outside?

        Quote  Reply

    69. Nymeria Warrior Queen:
      Luka Nieto,

      The only things I found interesting about

      LSH were

      Of course, that only ha to do with how she was reanimated, not the character, itself.I can’t imagine, even in the deft hands of Michelle Fairley, how they could make that character work…and I’m just speaking technically.

      There’s some pretty good instances that she has done more after her taking that role in the books. Mostly

      ordering the BwB to infiltrate the siege at Riverrun, somehow getting her hands on Robb’s crown, while we previously saw it in Frey hands and retreating into the Neck when Black Walder was chasing the BwB. All in all, LSH is hinted to be doing more than just killing hapless Frey’s like Merrett..

      Hence why I agree that this would be the season where her “arc” which I assume is part of the larger “The North Strikes Back”-plot this season..

        Quote  Reply

    70. Sue the Fury:
      Ser Oromis Locke,

      There was a new article fourteen hours ago! Sheesh.

      Okay, I meant “show-news”-article.. The posts regarding the events in NYC didn’t really rock my boat.. I mean they are technically articles, but not the thing I meant 😉

        Quote  Reply

    71. K Noelle: Stuff like Melisandre

      being alive til ep 10. We know a big female character dies in the beginning.

      Do we KNOW a

      big female character dies in the beginning? From where do you know this? I remember reading this “rumor” on reddit, and asking here on WotW if this could be substantiated but AFAIK, it wasn’t ever touched on again here. So, I am curious: where did you hear about this?

        Quote  Reply

    72. Kay,

      This has never been confirmed or denied by any trustworthy source. It’s just a rumor out there.

      And I would appreciate it if all of you would cover your spoilers.

        Quote  Reply

    73. “The death that she suffered

      changes you”. These words from GRRM is pretty much similar to what Michelle Fairley said in an interview (WITH LENA HEADEY, AND YES THIS WAS AFTER THE RED WEDDING. YOU CAN SEARCH IT ON YOUTUBE) before Season 4. She said that Catelyn Stark “CHANGES SUBSTANTIALLY”. Notice that she still used the present tense even though her character already died. Then she goes on by saying, ” I AM NOT DOING VERY WELL AM I? As if she was trying her very best not to spoil the audience. This is the reason why even up to now i think that Lady Stoneheart might still be in the series. We just do not know when. But now that they are going back to the Riverlands, this will be the perfect time for them to re-introduce the character.

      Another thing is that whenever Michelle Fairley was being asked about coming back, her answers were not definitive and always vague. Like “i knew the arc and that was it”, “the character’s dead”, “i am not under contract with GOT”, etc.

      Jon Snow is dead on the show right? yet why is it that whenever Kit Harrington was being asked if his character is still alive, He would always say, “NO JON SNOW IS DEAD, I AM NOT COMING BACK”. I remember Michelle Fairley saying the similar thing: ” THE CHARACTER’S DEAD, SHE’S DEAD”. The only difference is that Kit was seen filming and in costume while Michelle Fairley isn’t.

      Well, it’s just me hoping. I am for the inclusion of Lady Stoneheart simply because she is Catelyn Stark. Some would say she is different and her character is pointless in the books, but her body is still Catelyn. She is a member of the Stark family, the main protagonists in the series. I do not mind if D&D alter the storylines of other characters or give their roles to other characters, but not with the Starks. What happened to them in the books as written by GRRM should also happen to them in the series.

      Just like in the Lord of the Rings, given that they only have three hours per movie, they could have Gandalf permanently dead, Gimli killed by a troll, Arwen died of sickness, Legolas stabbed by an orc or Frodo and Sam died with Gollum in Mount Doom, but they didn’t simply because these are main characters and you cannot just make “BIG” or “MAJOR” changes in their storylines.

      P.S. Still think that Season 5 is the worst season of GOT yet.

        Quote  Reply

    74. K Noelle,

      That summary was fake, for other reasons, but you can’t prove it was fake with your own speculation (baseless speculation at that, since we DON’T know a major female character will die early on).

        Quote  Reply

    75. Dire Moon Moon: Boojam,

      Oh dear, I forgot my snark tag 🙁 Honestly, I have no idea what they’re for aside from storage space for anything that will fit in tem

      I caught the snark, ….. those ‘shipping containers’ still don’t look like ‘shipping containers’ as earthmen know them.

        Quote  Reply

    76. mau,

      Very well said! Exactly my toughts too.

      Like I said many times. This is just a continuation of the old arguments/debates..etc. from 2006-20012, over the quality of AFFC/ADWD.

      Those of us who found those 2 books to be really dissapointing are, of course glad that the stories we didn’t like where cut away/changed.

      Those who liked those books, are of course sad that they won’t see the stories they liked. Alltough going on a angry rant, on how they where important, is wrong. For the simple fact that they have no idea what is important or not, while the writers do.

      This is exactly why I don’t like when people say it as fact, that S5 was bad, and then try to argue with me that AFFC/ADWD where good. It is all personale opinions.
      To me those 2 books, ADWD a bit less, because I liked some bits of it, are just as bad as S5 is to them.
      Also I don’t see why they keep coming here, if the only thing they ever talk is how bad the show/writers are. Now you will give the ”it used to be something we liked, and are sad to see turn this way” argument. That is exactly what happened with me, and many people with the last 2 books. But you don’t see me on their forums telling them how much I disliked those books that they liked.
      They got the story they wanted in the books, we got the story we wanted in the show.

      Also in the of-season, it’s mostly book-readers who post around here. When the show starts you will see again that the majority of people love and enjoy this show. And don’t feel the need to insult what other people enjoy.

        Quote  Reply

    77. I miss LSH because

      -We still don’t know if Podrick died
      -We still don’t know if she’s gonna kill Brienne or Jaime or both. Jaime being hanged by some extra of the BWB is boring.
      -ZombieCat! C’mon!
      -Michelle Fairley is a great actress. Is always fun to saw her onscreen, even only for a cameo.
      -It would be fun if Arya arrives to Westeros, to discover her list is completly done and she has to give the gift of mercy to her own mother

      If the show goes on those routes, they won’t be the same emotional impact.

        Quote  Reply

    78. SlayerNina,

      Arya meeting her is pure speculation.

      Neither do we know if Jaime will be hanged. You complain like him hanging is fact not just your speculation

      And I disagree I belive what Martin did to Cat is quite boring and pointless.

      I agree Fairley is a good actress.

      So 2 out of 3 complains here is pure speculation, that could very well never happen in the books too.

        Quote  Reply

    79. Scott,

      Michelle Fairley lives in Belfast though. My friend, who also lives in Belfast, was an extra for this season and he spotted her quite a few times in town as well.

        Quote  Reply

    80. Here are some (bad quality) pictures of the filming location in Sierra Alhamilla, Almería. The GoT production used some of the structures the production of the Exodus movie left there and then incorporated new structures, mainly roofs and more tents.

      http://oi61.tinypic.com/wvzo6q.jpg

      http://oi62.tinypic.com/30w495x.jpg

      In this picture you can see the details in front of the entrance of that big tent – we can even see the horses on the door!

      http://oi61.tinypic.com/214qe1c.jpg

      CGI the rest and we might have a huge Vaes Dothraki, supposed to accomodate all khalasars.

        Quote  Reply

    81. But if Jon revives, what would be the Night’s Watch and the Wildings’ reaction?

      These people are afraid as hell of dead people rising again, so if Jon comes back, won’t they think he is a wight?? I have trouble imagining how they could follow him.

      mau: It seems to me that many of us realized after S4 that she actually doesn’t need to be a part of the show for the story to continue.

      While a vengeful zombie is always cool, as the books go by you realize that Cat should have remained dead, she has little (or rather nothing) to do in the story.

        Quote  Reply

    82. Mihnea:
      mau,
      Like I said many times. This is just a continuation of the old arguments/debates..etc. from 2006-20012, over the quality of AFFC/ADWD.

      Those of us who found those 2 books to be really dissapointing are, of course glad that the stories we didn’t like where cut away/changed.

      Those who liked those books, are of course sad that they won’t see the stories they liked. Although going on an angry rant, on how they where important, is wrong. For the simple fact that they have no idea what is important or not, while the writers do.

      This is exactly why I don’t like when people say it as fact, that S5 was bad, and then try to argue with me that AFFC/ADWD where good. It is all personale opinions.
      To me those 2 books, ADWD a bit less, because I liked some bits of it, are just as bad as S5 is to them.
      Also I don’t see why they keep coming here, if the only thing they ever talk is how bad the show/writers are. Now you will give the ”it used to be something we liked, and are sad to see turn this way” argument. That is exactly what happened with me, and many people with the last 2 books. But you don’t see me on their forums telling them how much I disliked those books that they liked.
      They got the story they wanted in the books, we got the story we wanted in the show.

      Also in the off-season, it’s mostly book-readers who post around here. When the show starts you will see again that the majority of people love and enjoy this show. And don’t feel the need to insult what other people enjoy.

      I don’t get why it needs to be so black and white. I loved the majority of what’s in the books and I liked the majority of what the show did in S5. Dorne didn’t appeal to me much and neither did Sansa, That doesn’t mean that because of polar opposites, I had to have liked what they did in Dorne with Jaime (as the lack of a person I knew wasn’t why Dorne did not appeal to me in the books) as I still didn’t. It simply isn’t as black and white as S5 is good and AFFC/ADWD is bad vs. S5 is bad and AFFC/ADWD. Those are too black and white of a conclusions to take, or at least, way too minimalist to boil it down to two camps when there’s plenty of grey. Sure, there are people that vehemently disliked Book4/5 when they came out and now like the show and vice versa, but shock and horror, I read both books back to back in 2013, while catching up with the show and I got nothing of that five years of resentment people had been growing since Feast. Which meant I could enjoy both books for what they were before S5 came out and I liked that it touched upon some of the stories that I read.

      So, as an Unsullied during S1-3, and as Bookreader for S4-5, I can honestly say that this entire argument is too polarized and as you say, it’s all personal opinions and they usually aren’t as black and white as you suggest.

      SlayerNina:
      I miss LSH because

      If the show goes on those routes, they won’t be the same emotional impact.

      But in all honesty, of any of the Stark-children, it’s Arya who Cat had the lesser bond with.. Robb was her firstborn, Sansa was a lot like her when she was young, she was always worrying about little Brandon. I don’t know how she felt about Rickon, but in the books he may just have been too young to write dialogue about much.. It’s obvious she cares for Rickon, but on the other hand she’s mentally ready to sprout the next child before Ned leaves. So in terms of affection, it’s pretty much: Robb = Sansa > Bran > Arya > Rickon.. It probably also has something to do with Arya looking far more Northern than the rest of the bunch, which have her hair in the books. Cat meeting Arya just doesn’t work for me, but I could see it happening..

      There’s fun in speculating that a Red Wedding 2.0 is going to happen at Riverrun with Daven Lannister+Female Frey #36 (which the show may just turn into Walder Frey and Lannister cousin X), with the BwB being infiltrated with Jaime (Tom o’7s among others, but hopefully Beric and Thoros on the show) and the rest of the BwB lurking around to kill any Frey straying from the path (which is how LSH got ahold of Robb’s crown again).

      And considering Arya has ties to the BwB, and we know show!Arya is in the Riverlands, and that some proxy of the Riverrun-Siege is happening and Walder Frey and Jaime is also likely being present in the Riverlands+Lannister tents. It is quite clear what Arya’s big season climax may end up being, as well as Jaime’s by the way.

      Lets say: Jaime leaves KL in 6×06 and 6×09 is all about SnowBowl, that leaves three episodes for the Riverrun-plot. 6×07 as Jaime travels/arrives at Riverrun, 6×08 for the Siege-plot with Blackfish and 6×10 being the Red Wedding 2.0.

      That being said, how epic would it be for Arya to have her wolfpack-dreams while she’s blind in Braavos, leaves for Westeros. Come the finals scenes in 6×10: while Arya is busy shanking Walder Frey, a giant pack of wolves literally raids the Lannister encampment? In the S2, Robb holds Jaime captive and Jaime gets up close and personal with Grey Wind. Robb ponders: Maybe you’ll be killed by a boy. Clearly a threat, but maybe it’s also foreshadowing, because who was called “a boy” in S2? Arya. In the books at Riverrun, Jaime holds Edmure captive.. so I could see it being a nice role-reversal if Jaime dies there and than, because he’d not have heeded Robb’s warning much.

      MissMatchedEyes:
      Scott,
      Michelle Fairley lives in Belfast though. My friend, who also lives in Belfast, was an extra for this season and he spotted her quite a few times in town as well.

      But Clive Russell is an Englishman living as a Scot isn’t he? Or did he move to NI? It could just be friends meeting up, but than it means that Clive went across the water.. So it would seem that if anything is to take from this, it may be a Blackfish guest appearance (and if so, a WotW-award he’s like to definitely win).

        Quote  Reply

    83. Lisa0527:
      Wimsey,

      Well said. I’ve never thought Jon was the type to weasel out of his vows on a legal technicality.

      It’s not a technicality at all. Or at least it’s no more or less a technicality than the original oath that committed Jon. It is really straightforward, and it seems nearly certain to happen in this manner. He is meaningfully released from his vows, period. And what he does with his life afterwards will, I suspect, be entirely in the spirit of the charge of the NW anyway, minus the xenophobia (directed towards the wildlings anyway).

        Quote  Reply

    84. Ser Oromis Locke,

      Making things black or white is the last thing I wished for. Sorry if I didn’t make myself clear enough.

      That is why I pointed out that there are people who disliked those books, and people who liked them, and people who have complains on both mediums, altough I find those books quite weak, I know there are many who liked them. Same with S5. Likes and dislikes is a metter of personalle taste. I just don’t like it when people speak in absolute statements.

      And I should really try not to write such long ”esseys”, until I learn to express myself clearer, in english. 😀

      But lets leave it at this, it is Off-topic, and I have no intention of derailing this thread.

        Quote  Reply

    85. Off-Topic Otto: It’s not a technicality at all. Or at least it’s no more or less a technicality than the original oath that committed Jon. It is really straightforward, and it seems nearly certain to happen in this manner. He is meaningfully released from his vows, period. And what he does with his life afterwards will, I suspect, be entirely in the spirit of the charge of the NW anyway, minus the xenophobia (directed towards the wildlings anyway).

      I don’t think he needed to break any vow now. In the moment he will resurrect, is probably the wildings and/or the NW go on “he’s a savior messiah! We must obey!”.

      It’s probably some kind of “he’s a monster! We must obey because we’re scared!” or “he’s a monster! Kill him!” too, but give the leaks of

      the BatardBowl, the SnowBowl or whatever you want to call it

      the first scenario is the most possible

        Quote  Reply

    86. SlayerNina,

      Well for one:

      you said that Jaime dying by some random bandit won’t be as good as him dying by LSH, something wich is pure speculation, as you don’t know if LSH will do anything to him. So you are complaining here on something that has happened neither in the books or show.

        Quote  Reply

    87. SlayerNina,

      Jaime’s death has been foreshadowed in the books already, and it will have nothing to do with LSH. Instead, it has to do with a prophecy:

      Cersei’s assertion that she and Jaime will leave the world together coupled with the facts that she is actually a little older than Jaime and that she will die at the hands of a little brother screams that Jaime and Cersei will die together.

      Even if B&W could not figure that out from the books, then GRRM will have told them this.

        Quote  Reply

    88. James Rivers: For the sake of argument, in the show

      You’re right, they could absolutely go that route, but I think it would soften the brutality of how she died too much.

      Ser Oromis Locke,

      I was just stating the only parts of her character I personally found interesting.

      It gives more depth to the connection the direwolves have to all the Starks, even someone who was not born a Stark, and who Nymeria hasn’t even seen since she left Winterfell to go to King’s Landing with Ned and Co. I’ve also always wondered why Thoros refused to revive her.

      JCDavis: Come on, she is a flippin’ Pez dispenser.

      Thank you for giving me a big and literal LOL before noon on a Monday!!!

      On Topic: I won’t even hazard a guess as to which tower the new casting involves. There are a shitload of towers all over Westeros, and at this point, I feel like it could be almost anywhere in the 7 Kingdoms.

        Quote  Reply

    89. Wimsey:
      SlayerNina,

      Jaime’s death has been foreshadowed in the books already, and it will have nothing to do with LSH.Instead, it has to do with a prophecy:

      Even if B&W could not figure that out from the books, then GRRM will have told them this.

      Naughty naughty, Wimsey. Stop acting like you know concretely what’s gonna happen in the next 2 books!
      Speculate all you want, but don’t be hypcrotical. I say that not to be harsh, but because you are a ring leader regarding reprimanding others for jumping to conclusions about things that will happen in the next book.

      As I said in my earlier post, on paper, it is hard to imagine a non LSH

      Michelle Fairley/Jaimie-Brienne confrontation

      to be as powerful as one that incorporates her.

      Considering we don’t know what happens in “The Winds Of Winter” (as so many folks state constantly!), we can’t say with any concrete finality the importance of pretty much any plotlines or characters from the show or books. Speculate all you want of course, but even if they change things like omitting LSH, there’s still….

      the major confrontation between Jaimie and Brienne and the (now) Outlaw brotherhood

      That plotline seems too major to just omit. Possible huge stakes for multiple character destinies And I don’t know how it will have the same emotional oomph without….

      Catelyn/Michelle Fairley……undead or not!

      But I’m sure they can figure out alternatives for the show if they are so averse to using that particular character (and we have gotten possible hints to that).

        Quote  Reply

    90. mitch

      I think there were other reasons that were important to have the BwB scene. 1. It set up Arya being taken by The Hound. 2. It put Mel in the position to take Gendry. 3. It showed the viewer how re-animation is done and that Mel saw it too.

      I didn’t get anything in the SHOW about how LSH/or someone like that would be important for Jaime and Brienne.

      Nymeria Warrior Queen

      *bows* 😉

        Quote  Reply

    91. Mihnea,

      I found the refusal to be mysterious in and of itself. I never got the impression he thought he could not do it, I got the impression he would not do it, as though he was unwilling to bring the creature she would inevitably be into the world.

        Quote  Reply

    92. JCDavis,

      Of course, now I want a Lady Catelyn Pez Dispenser made, just so I can turn it into a LSH Pez dispenser. I may not want her in the show, but I’d love to have her as a Pez Dispenser. 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    93. Luka Nieto: So, do you have a link? The Instagram pictures have to be better quality than that, right?

      Thanks for the video, BTW!

      The photos have really a bad quality lol
      @franciscojavier_0311bdd posted them.

        Quote  Reply

    94. JCDavis:
      mitch

      I think there were other reasons that were important to have the BwB scene.1.It set up Arya being taken by The Hound.2.It put Mel in the position to take Gendry.3.It showed the viewer how re-animation is done and that Mel saw it too.

      I didn’t get anything in the SHOW about how LSH/or someone like that would be important for Jaime and Brienne.

      You misunderstand my post.

      I’m saying that a plotline already set up in the books

      Jaimie/Brienne/Brotherhood

      seems too important to be omitted from the show.

      Now whether the character of

      undead Catelyn

      is involved doesn’t change my personal feeling that somehow this scenario will be recreated in the show (and we’ve gotten hints of an “outlaw brotherhood” that was once “good” roaming the countryside, casting calls, etc..)

      I also personally feel that “on paper”, this scenario will lose something emotionally without the dynamic of

      Catelyn Stark…undead or no

      Especially on the show as

      Michelle Fairley

      was so awesome and

      her scenes with Jaimie and Brienne in season 1 and 2 were so great.

        Quote  Reply

    95. mitch: Naughty naughty, Wimsey. Stop acting like you know concretely what’s gonna happen in the next 2 books!

      But I am not stating what I know is happening in the next two books. I am stating that I know what happens in the prior 5 books: and the circumstances of Jaime’s death are strongly foreshadowed there! We know the foreshadowing. It might not happen: but does it not seem much more probable that a foreshadowed circumstance will happen instead of an unforeshadowed one? Besides, can you really see

      Cersei going down without a fight? Or the final fulfillment of her prophecy being anything other than ironic and of her own doing?

      mitch: I’m saying that a plotline already set up in the books

      I doubt that particular plotline will be important. If there is some important action that happens because of it, then it can be introduced elsewise. Moreover, in the end, I really doubt that either Brienne or Jaime will be that important. Brienne is a very minor protagonist, and she was not a protagonist in the first three books. That means her possible contributions to the over-arching story are really limited.

      Jaime has been a protagonist since the 3rd book. However, we’ve had strong foreshadowing that he won’t be there in the end.

      Again, we have not read Winter: but we have read the prior 5 books. (I even remember 4 of them quite well!) In a series like this, what is going to be important in the climax is the long term character evolution of characters that have been primary characters since the start. Brienne has not been such a character. Jaime really has not, either. This really limits how important either of them can be in the end.

        Quote  Reply

    96. Wimsey<

      It might not happen

      That’s all I wanted to hear you say! Your post made it sound like you were closing discussion of future plot/character speculations. Like stating some kind of fact regarding what is to come in future books.

        Quote  Reply

    97. Mihnea: Also this Season, when he talked with Bronn.
      B:”How do you want to die?”
      J:”In the hands of the women I love.”

      When he said “In the arms of woman I love,” strangely enough, I thought of Brienne. Maybe that was because they had just passed the island of Tarth, where she was from, and I thought I saw a wistful look on his face. Not that I’m shipping the two of them, but I think that the time Jaime spent getting to know an “honorable” woman, when all he really had known before was Cersei, made him more appreciative of women in general, and Brienne in particular.

        Quote  Reply

    98. Wimsey:

      I doubt that particular plotline will be important. If there is some important action that happens because of it, then it can be introduced elsewise.

      Which is what I inferred in my post. But I do PERSONALLY think this plotline will be important in the story (Life and death stakes and all with characters we care about. And perhaps even some “speculated epicness to come ). And I do think the use of LSH

      Michelle Fairley

      is theoretically the more powerful story/dynamic than without

      her

      . Especially on the show because of the excellent actors. There is definitely a “full circle”/symmetry to this “confrontation

      when Catelyn is in the middle of it

      Understand I’m talking emotional dynamics here.

      Moreover, in the end, I really doubt that either Brienne or Jaime will be that important.Brienne is a very minor protagonist, and she was not a protagonist in the first three books.That means her possible contributions to the over-arching story are really limited.

      Jaime has been a protagonist since the 3rd book.However, we’ve had strong foreshadowing that he won’t be there in the end.

      Again, we have not read Winter: but we have read the prior 5 books.(I even remember 4 of them quite well!)In a series like this, what is going to be important in the climax is the long term character evolution of characters that have been primary characters since the start.Brienne has not been such a character.Jaime really has not, either.This really limits how important either of them can be in the end.

      Firstly, I think it’s foolish to think that POV chapters determine who is “important” in the show or the final 2 books/endgame.

      Fact: On emotional levels, Brienne of Tarth and Jaime Lannister are important to the books and ( more importantly due to this discussion) the show.

      They may not be the “big 3” (Jon Snow, Tyrion, Danerys) or the other 3 (Bran, Arya, Sansa), but they are definitely (until they die)….

      which either might very well do in the books – in this very scenario!

      important to the emotional “quilt” of the story

        Quote  Reply

    99. mitch,
      Wimsey,

      I do think it’s also worth considering that while Jaime is not one of George’s “original five” (though I hate that designation because his original outline was fraught with things that have clearly been changed since then), he is intricately connected with two out of the “Big 3” that you mention – Tyrion and Daenerys. It seems a waste of incredible dramatic potential to have the two brothers never meet up again considering how they parted company…and Jaime answering for his “crime” of killing the Mad King when faced with the Mad King’s daughter would be, well, GOLD. I have no way of knowing if this is what the story has in mind, but it makes a heck of a lot of sense (and again, if you LIKE to look at Martin’s original outline, it does seem like he had some of these intentions).

      As for Brienne, well I’m of the opinion that her fate and Jaime’s fates have evolved to be tied together completely (as opposed to Jaime/Cersei as seemed to be the case originally). And at the very least, she’s a great fighter in possession of one of the few Valyrian Steel swords in Westeros. Since the show highlighted the importance of that, I think they might have it in mind to keep her around until the White Walkers come.

        Quote  Reply

    100. mitch: Firstly, I think it’s foolish to think that POV chapters determine who is “important” in the show or the final 2 books/endgame.

      It is not remotely foolish. To the contrary, it’s completely foolish to think anything else. Remember, stories reflect how how the protagonists evolve. The real story in each book is not in the actions or events, but in the italic lines giving us the thoughts of the protagonists. (In this case, the “damned if I do/damned if I don’t” scenarios in which GRRM always places his main characters.)

      Ultimately, the overarching story is going to heavily depend on the difference between the characters we have in Dreams versus the characters we had in Thrones, particularly for Jon, Daeny, Tyrion and Arya: and probably for Bran and perhaps Sansa as well.

      Along these lines, we have gotten some major foreshadowings of things to come. One of those major foreshadowings is the general nature of Jaime’s death. Given 2+ ideas about how Jaime might die, we should favor the one (or ones) that fit that foreshadowing.

      So, really , this all is Literature 101. (And, no, foreshadowings and dynamic development are not “tropes” that GRRM can subvert.)

      kit_hepburn: I do think it’s also worth considering that while Jaime is not one of George’s “original five” (though I hate that designation because his original outline was fraught with things that have clearly been changed since then),

      GRRM has changed a lot of the plot, but it’s pretty clear that he’s had the same story in mind all along. The big thing to keep in mind is that the ways in which the Big 5 have evolved over 6.5 books almost certainly will be huge in the end. We should already be seeing the big parallelisms in how Jon’s, Daeny’s, Tyrions and Arya’s characters have evolved. When shove comes to push and these characters come to grips with what the Walkers and the Red God really mean, the things that they have learned about compromise, selflessness, justice, etc., will all come into play in a major way.

        Quote  Reply

    101. Wimsey,

      Along these lines, we have gotten some major foreshadowings of things to come. One of those major foreshadowings is the general nature of Jaime’s death. Given 2+ ideas about how Jaime might die, we should favor the one (or ones) that fit that foreshadowing.

      So, really , this all is Literature 101. (And, no, foreshadowings and dynamic development are not “tropes” that GRRM can subvert.)

      But what are you saying is foreshadowed exactly, with such certainty? That the two options are that Jaime dies in the Riverlands, or that Jaime dies with Cersei because of the valonqar prophecy and because of some of the thoughts he and Cersei have had? I’ve never argued that Jaime isn’t going to die at some point in the story (he probably will), but I don’t agree that the circumstances of his demise have been foreshadowed like it’s a foregone conclusion. Jaime once thought he and Cersei would die together when he was still obsessed with her. That has since changed (in the books anyway). Cersei still thinks she and Jaime will die together. But Cersei is frequently wrong, and has a tendency to not see the forest for the trees. I think it’s very possible those statements are foreshadowing that Cersei is in fact going to die alone without Jaime – which is actually irony. Unless there’s a collection of other statements from the books/show that I’m missing?

        Quote  Reply

    102. kit_hepburn,

      I agree. I don’t believe Jaime is going to die with Cersei. Going by the quote from season 5, I think it is more of a foreshadowing to Jaime dying with Brienne. It’s clear in the books that

      Jaime has rejected Cersei, and has no desire to save her or die with her.

        Quote  Reply

    103. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      …until she decides to burn KL to the ground or gets sentenced to death after her trial. Jaime will react to those scenarios if he survives LS (or the mission that he does for LS).

        Quote  Reply

    104. Ser Oromis Locke: But in all honesty, of any of the Stark-children, it’s Arya who Cat had the lesser bond with..

      that will be a good thing when Arya gives her mother the mercy that she couldn’t give the Hound.

        Quote  Reply

    105. (And, no, foreshadowings and dynamic development are not “tropes” that GRRM can subvert.)

      Actually, I think Martin can and will subvert foreshadowing. The Red Wedding (and to a lesser extend Ned’s death), which in retrospect, most readers felt should have been obvious, at least to some extent, precisely because of all the foreshadowing, “trained” the reader to look carefully for any other foreshadowing, and to try and solve the puzzle of various prophecies and repeated themes/saying (came into this world together, eaving it together, for example). Because of that, he’s in the perfect position to turn them on their head. Thus, just because “a”=”b” at one point, it doesn’t mean “a” will still equal “b” at another point. “A” could, and I believe will, equal pretty much anything.

        Quote  Reply

    106. O_o: These people are afraid as hell of dead people rising again, so if Jon comes back, won’t they think he is a wight??

      Jon: Edd, you look like you’ve seen a ghost.
      Edd: Da fuck?!
      Jon: Edd, fetch me my sword.
      Edd: Dragonglass!
      Jon: Fuck the glass!

        Quote  Reply

    107. O_o:
      But if Jon revives, what would be the Night’sWatch and the Wildings’ reaction?

      These people are afraid as hell of dead people rising again, so if Jon comes back, won’t they think he is a wight?? I have trouble imagining how they could follow him.

      Not if they burn him first. If they do that, then it becomes a matter of what is he? How is he here if he’s not a wight? Still, its gonna be a while before anyone follows him I imagine (Hopefully they don’t drag that plot line out for too long). Those that killed him will not follow him, and the rest will most likely be hesitant. Just my guess.

        Quote  Reply

    108. Wimsey: It is not remotely foolish.To the contrary, it’s completely foolish to think anything else.Remember, stories reflect how how the protagonists evolve.The real story in each book is not in the actions or events, but in the italic lines giving us the thoughts of the protagonists.(In this case, the “damned if I do/damned if I don’t” scenarios in which GRRM always places his main characters.)

      Um, Jaimie and Brienne have POV chapters that literally lead into a

      “damned if I do/damned if I don’t” scenario.

      C’mon!

        Quote  Reply

    109. I also believe Jaimie’s ultimate destiny is gonna be tied Brienne more than it will ever be to Cersei. Forgetting the book, the show has definitely foreshadowed it. It’s no surprise that this season, Jaimie seems to be doing his King’s Landing “stuff “mid season, so that he can finish the season far away from Cersei.

      Regardless of any book/show speculations, I definitely look forward to any pairing of those 2 characters again, due the excellent work of Nicolaj and Gwendoline in season 3 and 4.

        Quote  Reply

    110. Rygritte: Jon: Edd, you look like you’ve seen a ghost.
      Edd: Da fuck?!

      This is key. We need to know what the following characters will do immediately (seconds!!) after FTW: Ghost, Edd, Mel, Wun Wun, Shireen, Selyse, Bran, BR, Tormund, Val, Davos (show only), Grenn/Pyp (book only), Mormont’s raven, Jon himself and the WW lingering nearby. Those next few minutes, hopefully told early in TWoW and adapted in S6, will determine how the immediate reaction by NW/wildling/nationalists will be, and whether Jon 2.0 has an uphill battle to convince the many possible skeptics of his non-wight integrity.

        Quote  Reply

    111. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Well I never got that impresion from reading that. Guess will find who was right whhen TWOW comes out.

      I for one still don’t see anymore then Thoros simply thinking she was dead for far too long to bring back, and Beric just trying, for verious reasons, like him being tired of coming back so many times, or duty perhaps,..etc. The thing I do remenber clear, is Thoros saying what monster she become. But I don’t remenber any clue that Thoros knew this before.

        Quote  Reply

    112. Thronetender,

      Brienne was my first tought when he said that also. But I don’t think he ”loves” her, respect and admire? Yes, but I don’t really see love there.

      Also maybe I should have made myself a bit more clear, but I don’t expect him, dying togheter with Cersei, perhaps a metaphorical death, but not literally dying in her arms.
      Don’t really know here what to say more, Jaimes death was forshadowed, and I simply think he won’t make it to the end.
      But I also don’t think he will die because of

      LSH

      One thing tough I’m quite certain of is

      Him killing Cersei, it was forshadowd in the books. And the fact that the last bit of Maggy’s prophecy was omited in the show makes me think that this is what will happen. As to why they omited that bit? In my opinion for the same reason why they didn’t show Rob Starks decapited body too Dany in S2, it would simply be too big of a spoiler and you simply don’t do those things in a TV medium.

      Not going to enter the

      LSH debates

      I think her role will be minimal, I don’t like her, nor the concept of what she is,…and so on.
      I’m glad she was cut. And that is it, for me.

        Quote  Reply

    113. Mihnea,

      Agreed. That wouldn’t have been my prediction originally, but if Tyrion is still in Meereen as of episode seven or eight, as was revealed about a week ago, well… I now expect the whole of Dany’s mid-season to take place in Vaes Dothrak. I’d say episodes 3 to 7 at most, and episodes 4 and 5 at the least.

      Kargaryen,

      Nice!

        Quote  Reply

    114. Luka Nieto,

      Yeah, that is my guess aswell, EP6-7 should be when Dany leaves. I expect she will get the Dothraki in EP8, and leave Meereen in EP10. I think EP9 will focus most on the northern story, and SNOWBOLL!!…I’m so sorry.

        Quote  Reply

    115. Mihnea,

      I think (or, well, hope) it will happen slightly earlier —that is, that leaving Meereen is not the last we’ll see of Dany and her guys this season.

      Though, to be fair, dramatically if not geographically, there is no difference between ending the season ready to cross the Narrow Sea and ending it abandoning Meereen; both are a statement of “We’re invading Westeros, baby.”

        Quote  Reply

    116. Luka Nieto,

      So, basically, I admit that I just want to see Dany physically closer to her goal, and passing through Volantis, too. But I understand that’s just a baseless hope of mine.

        Quote  Reply

    117. Thomas Sandstone: Not if they burn him first. If they do that, then it becomes a matter of what is he? How is he here if he’s not a wight?

      Maybe, but resurrecting in front of the people that already decided to kill you when you where a normal person, and the people that have been fighting zombies all their life, that won’t make you very popular.

      And Mel it’s also pretty low on popularity, so no one will pay her much attention (specially after her Stannis fiasco)

        Quote  Reply

    118. O_o,

      Well it’s not like the NW or Wildlings know what happened to Stannis, too blame Mell.
      They just know that Stannis lost the battle, thats all.

      If anything they might be more afraid of her, because she survived the battle, as far as they know.

        Quote  Reply

    119. Luka Nieto,

      I hope the same thing! I’m just a bit pessimistic when her story is involved. But her ending this season going to Westeros/Volantis will be fine by me.

      Just as long as we leave Meereen and never come back I will be happy.

        Quote  Reply

    120. O_o,

      Oh I know it won’t make him popular, I almost sure of it, but there has to be something that not only allows Jon to leave, but leave relatively unscathed if that picture of him is real. (I am absolutely sure that it is but I am only saying that in the very small chance that it isn’t).

      Do people actually know about what Mel did? I don’t think they do or will. If she dies before they find out, if they find out, it won’t matter. At this point all they probably know is that Stannis lost.

        Quote  Reply

    121. kit_hepburn: But what are you saying is foreshadowed exactly, with such certainty?

      Cersei’s statement that she and Jaime entered the world together and will depart the world together is classic foreshadowing.

      It’s telling us in an innocent and ironic way what is going to happen. Remember, foreshadowing is never prediction: what makes it foreshadowing is that we, the readers/viewers, pick up on it, but the characters themselves are oblivious to it. In real life, the phrase “I doubt that I’ll live to see that” is just a phrase for “That won’t happen anytime soon.” In a story, it is a foreshadowing that that thing will happen by the end, but that character will not live to see it. So, the fact that the person making the statement (which is one that people would make in everyday life) also happens to be clueless is irrelevant: it never is as if the foreshadower knows what he/she is doing/saying is predicting the future.

      Nymeria Warrior Queen: Actually, I think Martin can and will subvert foreshadowing.

      Possibly: but how? It could just get ignored, I suppose. Nevertheless, we should consider scenarios that fulfill a foreshadowing to be a bit more likely.

      mitch: Um, Jaimie and Brienne have POV chapters that literally lead into a

      Sure, a few: and in only 2 and 1 of the 4 stories. What is going to be important for the final over-arching story is the different ways in which individual characters have been doing it in all 5 or 6 stories. That’s why the number of chapters of PoV are so important: that is how much character development we get, and how much character evolution we get. The characters that evolve the most are going to be the ones with the most impact in the end, and the parallelisms in their evolutions are going to be the Story of the series. (Of the still-living characters, the “Big 5” take up about 75% of the existing narrative: to not make that the backbone of the climax is not “trope-busting” or something like that: it’s just awful writing.)

        Quote  Reply

    122. One thing I should add is that foreshadowings do not qualify as tropes. Having everything go wrong and then having one of the characters say “at least it’s not raining” is a trope when it immediately starts raining. The rope is subverted if, 5 seconds later, a character says: “See! It’s still not raining.” The trope is the cliche of Murphy’s Law: it is subverted by setting it up and pulling the rug out from under it.

      A foreshadowing has to occur early, and then be fulfilled late. But that’s the catch: if done perfectly, then the event occurs and we go: “oh! Somebody accidentally predicted that 300 pages ago.” It is much too late to subvert a cliche 3 books later by not doing something! If done right, when Jaime’s death happens, a lot of readers will slap their foreheads and think: “Oh! X accidentally predicted this!”

        Quote  Reply

    123. Wimsey:

      Sure, a few: and in only 2 and 1 of the 4 stories.What is going to be important for the final over-arching story is the different ways in which individual characters have been doing it in all 5 or 6 stories.That’s why the number of chapters of PoV are so important: that is how much character development we get, and how much character evolution we get.The characters that evolve the most are going to be the ones with the most impact in the end, and the parallelisms in their evolutions are going to be the Story of the series. (Of the still-living characters, the “Big 5” take up about 75% of the existing narrative: to not make that the backbone of the climax is not “trope-busting” or something like that: it’s just awful writing.)

      Not really a few. Forget Brienne for a second. Who (if we combine CROWS with DANCE as one super book), has basically only recently become a full POV in the last book (8 chapters! That compares with any heavy hitters/chapter dominator in previous books ). And of course, don’t discount that she has been an important character (emotionally speaking) in the show since season 2.

      But…..

      Jaimie has truly become a full POV since book 3. I don’t think it matters what Jaime’s original conception was in that early treatment (if that is what you’re referring to). Remember in the original treatment, Jaime is basically Cersei. It was only later that “Martin the Gardener” (not architect!) decided to make twins out of that original Jaime character. He then decided by the third book (one of his most brilliant moves in the series as a whole) to make Jaimie a full POV. The “story grew in it’s telling” and Jaime took on a life of his own. Jaime (if he survives “Winds”) has every potential to be pivotal in whatever endgame Martin concocts. Jaime is an important part of the story at this point. Hell, the show itself added even more content to his tale (Dorne!)

      And we’re talking about more than the endgame here/climax anyway. There’s at least 2 more 1000 page books, and what’s looking like, 3 more seasons. Now Jaime and Brienne might very well die before any endgame/climactic chapters. But what I’m arguing is that their destinies (however it happens) are important emotional real estate to the books and more importantly (for the purposes of this discussion) the show. Nicolaj and Gwendoline are major draws to this show. Even if we’re just talking about season 6, I can tell you right now, they will be emotionally pivotal in that upcoming season’s narrative.

      Now what started this whole discussion, is my speculation that the scenario that left off Jaime and Brienne in the last book, will somehow be maintained in the show (and obviously continue into “Winds” territory as well). Again, I’m not saying that means

      Lady Stoneheart

      will appear. But I am taking a stance (contrary to those against her use in the show!) that considering I believe the scenario will be presented in some form of the show’s narrative (ie: “outlaw” brotherhood will force a seemingly tragic reuniting of Brienne and Jaime in the Riverlands), on paper, the use of

      Catelyn/Michelle Fairley

      in this scenario will clearly have more narrative symmetry/emotional resonance than one without her presence. Regardless of whether you are against the

      supernatural return of that character

      , this just seems like “visual medium” logic to me.

        Quote  Reply

    124. Wimsey,

      It’s telling us in an innocent and ironic way what is going to happen. Remember, foreshadowing is never prediction: what makes it foreshadowing is that we, the readers/viewers, pick up on it, but the characters themselves are oblivious to it.

      Agree to disagree then, because what you quoted from the books under your spoiler tag is, to me, is FAR too overt to be foreshadowing. Foreshadowing, when done well, has a type of subtle elegance to it (which George has in fact shown he’s capable of). What Cersei says – and Jaime think earlier in the books – goes against what “oblivious characters” would fail to notice. On the contrary, it’s exactly what they think will happen. Therefore, it’s much more likely to be irony than foreshadowing when all is said and done. As in, the opposite of what both those characters think (or thought in Jaime’s case) will happen, will in fact happen. And no, I don’t think that means Jaime killing Cersei as opposite. Opposite is Cersei dying alone, and Jaime dying with someone else (or not dying at all).

        Quote  Reply

    Jump to the Top

    Leave a Reply

    Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *