Game of Thrones is on the hunt for more colorful featured characters for season 6, according to the newest batch of casting breakdowns that have found their way to us.
This group of characters appears to be largely connected, with several of them part of a theater troupe. The casting of theatrical performers fits with the stage we’ve seen Game of Thrones building in Girona, Spain over the last couple weeks.
There will be a bit of speculation along with the character descriptions so beware of spoilers!
Note: The roles were not submitted only recently; several (if not all) of these parts may have been cast by now. Some of these roles shoot this week, or have past filming dates.
Game of Thrones is searching for:
- Grand Theatre Actor/Manager (55 – 70) The larger-than-life leader of a troupe of actors. He specializes in portraying drunken aristocrats. He is a huge presence on stage and rather nasty to his company when off-stage. They’re searching for a character actor with great comedy skills. He appears in three episodes, and is shooting this week in Spain, and the week of November 6th in Northern Ireland.
- Leading Theatre Character Actor. The leading actor in a theatrical company, around 50 years old. He participates in a play using a pronounced Northern accent, and we see him behind the scenes in seedy touring dressing rooms. He’s a flamboyant caricaturist. He appears in three episodes and he also films this week in Spain and again around November 6th in N. Ireland.
- Young Blond Juvenile Lead. Aged 18 – 25. A handsome blond juvenile lead in a theatrical group. He is sweet and noble, but his stage acting probably isn’t very good. We’ll see him playing a heroic young lead on stage, and then also see all the offstage politics between the actors in the dressing room. He has the same shooting dates as the above two actors.
- Smart Male Theatregoer, in his 40’s or 50’s. They’re looking for a smart, posh-looking man to play a well-to-do audience member in a theatre. He has one line and is filming in Spain this week.
In addition to the theater characters, we also have:
- Young Stunner. Aged 18 – 20. A stunner of a brunette. She has a couple of scenes, and a great final scene where there is a major twist. This role shot the week of August 5th in Belfast.
- Sublime courtesan. Aged 20 – 25. This beautiful courtesan appears at a party where a high-born woman has employed her services. Shoots around the week of September 15th.
- Long-haired warrior. Aged 30s – 40s. The show is looking for a non-white, tall muscular actor with long dark hair, a man with a powerful, warrior’s physique, intimidating presence and charisma. It’s noted that he’ll be learning lines in a fictional language learned phonetically, so we can safely assume this character is a Dothraki. The character has a lot to say in one big set-piece scene, in season 6. His shooting dates are currently set for the first two weeks of November.
Speculation includes extensive spoilers from the Mercy sample chapter from The Winds of Winter. If you’re fine with that, scroll past the gif!
In “Mercy,” Arya joins a theater troupe in disguise as a minor member of the group. The Grand Theatre Actor described above is a clear match for Izembaro, mummer, leader, and portrayer of kings. We’ve seen the stage set being built; this appears to be further confirmation of Arya’s adventure as Mercy. The odd thing is, the centerpiece of Mercy’s chapter was her taking out Arya’s Murder List™ member Raff the Sweetling – a murder echoed in Arya’s season 5 finale scene with Meryn Trant. Do we need to see something just like it again? Probably not.
Maisie Williams is in Girona right now, as the theater actors are scheduled to be, so I’m still certain this is part of her storyline. The troupe here is referred to as a traveling one, judging by the mentions of “touring.” Will the theater troupe be used to bring Arya Stark back to Westeros?
The wait is tantalizing.
The “young blond juvenile lead” is clearly playing the heroic King Joffrey onstage.
now, I haven’t been totally up-to-date on filming updates
but from that I wonder if Arya will maybe use the troupe as her means to travel back after she cuts ties with the Faceless Men?
Like they just finished their tour of Essos, and they’re off to do some gigs in Westeros now
And if this is part of “that” chapter – how does it connect to the scene she just filmed with the waif?
So many questions.
and damn I was so close to the first post!
McShane for the manager? I can totally see it. ?
The YOUNG STUNNER would be the play’s Sansa? In the play, she’d be wearing a red wig, I assume.
What could be the twist? It’s Arya wearing a fake face? Or the Waif?
[Spoiler] If Arya does re-enact her Mercy scene and pretend be Sansa getting raped by Tyrion, it’ll definitely feel strange after what happened last season.[/spoiler]
Aside from that, Bravoos seems really excited this coming season. I figured that after Meryn Trant got disposed of last season and that there is no Raff in the show, we wouldn’t get a scene like this but that’s awesome.
Nah, November Belfast sounds like an indoor studio scene. Sounds like a dressing room scene as described, off stage in the same Braavosi setting.
Interesting news though!
Grand Theatre Actor/Manager – obviously Izembaro
Leading Theatre Character Actor- Most likely playing Ned in the play.
Young Blond Juvenile Lead. – Playing Joffrey obviously
Smart Male Theatregoer – random person in crowd
Young Stunner. – guessing this is “Mercy” who will be playing the role of Sansa
Sublime courtesan.- sounds like Taena Merryweather?
Long-haired warrior- Sounds like a dothraki like you guys mentioned. Most likely he’s a Khal at Vaes Dothrak who’s either with/against Daenerys.
That’s my guess as well. based on the leaked images, I think it’s at least a possibility that Arya joins the theater group not by order of the Faceless Men but rather in a desperate attempt to escape their justice.
Grand Theatre Actor/Manager = King Robert
Leading Theatre Character Actor = Ned
She’s not specified as being an actress character, and she didn’t film with the others.
Young Stunner – Could this be Lyanna?
1. Grand Theatre Actor/Manager: Plays Robert Baratheon. Likely
2. Leading Theatre Character Actor: Uses Northern accent…plays Ned Stark, maybe? From the “flamboyant” bit, I’m guessing D&D will get some comedic mileage out of a very flamboyant actor playing butch, straitlaced Ned.
3. Young Blond Juvenile Lead: Plays King Joffrey in the play.
4. Young Stunner: She has already filmed, she’s supposed to be played by a very beautiful brunette, she’s between 18 and 20, and she is in a scene with a “major twist.” This is our Lyanna Stark, I think.
Young Stunner can’t be someone in the play. Her filming date doesn’t match with others in the play.
I was thinking the same thing!
Hmm so it seems that the Bloody Hand play in the show will be about Ned’s handship, not Tyrion’s?
my TWOW thoughts are… in the Mercy chapter it seemed as if Arya was gonna bounce from the faceless men and go on the lamb after the play because she broke the rules and killed Raff. So maybe she does something similar against code in this play, and decides to peace?
also… so young stunner has already filmed eh.
She has a “final scene” with a “great twist” … can we assume that she dies? Which arc can we see this sort of character being in? Which arcs were filming a month ago?
Arya’s season is coming more into focus:
Episode 1-3/4? Blind Arya.
Episode 4?-6/7? Theatre troupe?
Episode 7/8? Whatever’s happening with the Waif.
Episode 9-10? Ends up back in the Riverlands?
Absolutely could be Lyanna!
Assuming these are all the roles (reasonable assumption), looks like it. They may have decided to have Arya in a play depicting events that she herself was around for.
Yep, Lyanna giving birth the Jon and Meera. ?
I think the Young Stunner might be Lyanna.
oh yeah the lyanna stuff makes complete sense good call errybody. so we gonnna get R+L=J confirmed this season.
has anyone been on sean bean watch? like, has he been filming other stuff. safe to assume he’ll be young ned, right?
If the theatre types will be in three episodes, it sounds like the TWOW Mercy material is going to be expanded on.
The Red Priestess’ audition material had some line about her intention to bring in mummers. That would be a strange line unless Arya’s traveling theatre troupe heads to Meereen. On the other hand, the Waif is chasing Arya through the streets of Braavos, not Meereen, and the chase occurs after Arya gets her sight back. In between that and the news about Arya heading back to the Riverlands, I’m not sure if there’s room for a Meereen stopover. On the other hand, Nathalie Emmanuel alluded to more crossover between storylines, and Arya crossing paths with Team Dany is the only plausible crossover that would happen in Missandei’s storyline.
I think this year we definelty going to have a huge Arya storyline! I mean both a long and great one.. I’m so pumped 🙂
The mummer’s troupe
Arya vs waif
The young stunner wouldn’t be Mercy. Sounds like they’ll be filming those scenes this week in Spain. The “young stunner” filmed her scenes in early August in Belfast. So I’m sticking with the idea that it’s Lyanna.
I think its not unreasonable to guess that some non-Arya character will be in the audience for the play, especially since it is apparently a substantial-esque 3 episode arc
Young stunner as Lyanna sounds right to me. Like how it wasn’t until the end of the flashback that the Unsullied learned the blond girl getting her fortune told was Young Cersei.
Nothing suggests that Emmanuel was talking about her own storyline there. She was talking about the show in general.
After last year, I think they would have got soo much criticism if they had Arya as Sansa in the play raped, so they’ve gone down a different route.
Of course, it doesn’t really matter what the play is about as long as it’s mocking the Westerosi court and the Iron Throne.
LOL, people said the same thing about Alfie Allen when he made the comment about crossover–it’s just a GENERAL remark, it doesn’t mean ANYTHING about his storyline, etc. etc.–and look what happened.
Yeah I couldn’t decide what the deal was with the young stunner- she could just be another face for Arya, she could be Lyanna, you could guess lots of things.
Alfie was very clearly talking about what Theon was doing that year. Nathalie was just asked a general question about the show, nothing more. And given what we know about Arya’s filming this year, where she’s blind in episode 3/4, back in what appears to be Braavos in episode 7, and the filming location for the stage looks like Braavos, how would Meereen fit into any of that?
I do agree with Saen C that it seems Arya would meet any of Team Dany in Season 6 (although I think it is likely eventually). We do seem to know a reasonable amount about Arya’s storyline, and I can’t see how it would fit for the two characters to meet.
Having said that, this is the season where we can’t completely rule anything out, because we don’t have the source material to base our assumptions off. I just can’t see where it could fit, unlike for Reek when we knew so little about the storyline.
It’s interesting. Judging by “Mercy”, in the books her time with the mummers is done by the end of the chapter, but these casting calls may suggest otherwise, at least for the show.
Oh, oh, “courtesan“?! Oh aren’t we grand. Harlot’s not good enough for us eh? Paramour, concubine, fille de joie. That’s what we are not. Well listen to me my fine fellow, she’s a bit of tail, that’s what she is.
Sorry, I meant Sean C obviously. Need that Edit function back!
I’m a little tired of Arya to tell the truth. Maisie really isn’t that great an actress in my opinion. ( ok just hate me!!!) I’d rather see more of Sansa…Sophie has really proven to have quite the acting chops to me. Plus she has matured so much in her behavior outside the show as well.
The Dragon Demands,
Well, at least you like Monty Python.
Why would R+L=J be revealed in a public play? Lyanna’s story is murky to the general public at best and is more relevant to family members. Unless Howland Reed is going to make an appearance in the show, we should be looking to Bran.
My guess for the play: a take on mercy but with Ramsay. I could believe that the Boltons would brag about marrying into another powerful northern house. That’s why the marriage wasn’t to Alayne, right?
I could totally see McShane as Izembaro. The role would be well served by an actor who can be animated, theatrical and a bit nasty.
At least chronologically, it looks like whatever Arya does that leads to her conflict with the Waif must happen around the time she’s with the troupe, which is of potential interest since there’s been a ton of speculation about what the consequences of Arya’s actions in “Mercy” would be — though that raises separate questions in the show, since the show already did the death of the Trant-equivalent, and I’m not sure what could serve as a loose equivalent (since nobody else on Arya’s list is likely to be wandering into a Braavosi theater).
Would be nice.
Sansa was in 9 episodes last season. Arya was in 6. Granted, Arya had a whole storyline all for herself, so it’s understandable, and she got about 50 minutes of screen-time, which is almost a tenth of the season all to herself; but overall Sansa was more present throughout the season. Considering Sansa is bound to be involved with many other characters, and politically involved in the North, while Arya remains alone in Braavos, I expect this trend to continue. You already get lots of Sansa.
Could be lyanna but if is lyanna they already filmed the TOJ scene in belfast??? And we dont get who will be our Dayne, ned, lyanna…etc
How do you figure? Do we have anything that links the scenes we saw and the theatre scenes? They don’t film chronologically. Do we know which director is filming the theatre scenes, somehow? I’m lost as to how you know these scenes are linked.
I think that the travelling theatre troupe will be what brings Arya back to Westeros. I can imagine her getting there and recognising someone from her past which leads her to abandon the theatre company and going into a completely new storyline for season 7 which doesn’t involve her becoming a FM. I think that’s what will steer her away from them.
The “Long-haired warrior” isn’t part of the theater troupe, is he? ‘Cause he definitely sounds like Khal Jhaqo.
Lion of Night,
The young stunner speculated to be Lyanna isn’t in the play, it’s a completely unrelated role.
Mileage varies on which of the two is more talented. I don’t think it really works that way, though. Arya and Sansa are only two of the leads, and screentime for Season 6 has to be divvied up among many, many characters, of which Arya and Sansa are only two.
I am curious to see what Sansa’s up to. It’s unfortunate that we’re going to know so much about what Arya’s up to by virtue of the casting spoilers and the fact that the Arya filming is taking place in open spaces in a bustling town, and so little about Sansa’s…although I suppose you could say the same for Brienne and Jaime’s storylines as well.
I think the young stunner is Lyanna as well. Maybe her final scene that ends with a twist is Ned finding her with baby jon in her arms and making him promise. Im hoping so.
That would be a weird call back to Deadwood, where McShane’s character was friends with Bryan Cox, who played the flamboyant head of a traveling theater group.
Because she’s a blind beggar until circa episode 3/4, and the fight with the Waif is circa episode 7, and she goes to the Riverlands this season, which presumably would have to be toward the end of the season. Process of elimination, the most likely place for the theatre story is between her time as a blind beggar and her seeming scuffle with the Waif, which, given her apparent return to Westeros soon after, is probably part of whatever the climax of her time at the House of Black and White is. This also accords with the order of events in the book.
Based on her social media activity, it doesn’t look like Sophie has shot much yet, so her scenes may be upcoming, likely due to the weather.
Haha wow I completely missed that.
That’s what I get for exurberant skimming I guess!
Tywin of the Hill,
No, he’s Dothraki. Not every person is part of the theater troupe. Just the actors.
Well… of course. Duh. Silly me (That reads like a sarcastic remark. It isn’t.) I guess I just didn’t connect the dots. But you’re right: if she’s a blind beggar during Daniel Sackheim’s episodes (was this reported along with the blind beggar scene description? I don’t recall); and considering she’s being apparently chased out of Braavos by the Waif in one of Mark Mylod’s episodes, and may finish the season in the Riverlands if the reports were correct, the theatre company subplot has to fit in somewhere in the middle, probably in Jack Bender’s episodes plus another one, either the fourth or the seventh episode.
Mace is still there. No, he’s not on her list, but Arya may associate him with the Crown, which may be enough to set her off the FM path for a second time.
We can only guess as to the repercussions of Mercy’s actions, but it seems like a “fool me once” situation. Maybe whatever Arya does leads to the Waif scene?
I do believe that Izembaro et. al. are linked to the FM, so I do not think that if Arya ditched them, she could safely remain with the troupe, much less all the way to Westeros.
So the first four (all male) are part of the theater group. The troupe is in 3 episodes, filming this week and in November.
Then the young, stunning brunette – my bet is also Lyanna, with a nice twist at the end. 😉 Tourney at Harrenhall, ToJ?
The courtesan – employed by who?
And the Dothraki, presumably at Vaes Dothrak, in that complicated set being built in Almeria.
I think Arya, once her blindness is gone, leaves the FM, hides among the the theater troupe, is discovered by The Waif, chased, and then to flee the FM, goes back to Westeros.
I am not sure if the theater troupe goes to Westeros or to Meereen. Head Red Priestess mentioned mummers to Tyrion/Varys, so they could head there too.
I am the only one who thinks this season Braavos (Arya) has a lot of stuff to do?
I have the feeling they’re focusing too much here (not complaining, as long as they take care of the other plotlines too and they don’t try to have Braavos as a main focus but without letting enough time to develop correctly the plot there).
It’s simply been very visible filming. Though if she has more to do than last season I’d be quite pleased.
Maybe it just seems so because they’re all we’re hearing about at the moment?
That video shows a great Waif stunt. I guess WOTW will create a new filming roundup or add it to the previous article.
It could work in two ways:
-Arya is not blind anymore. Arya’s unhappy with the FM, she runs away (the scene Waif is following her) and she ends up in the theatre company, that travels to Westeros.
-Arya is not blind anymore. Arya’s in one of her assassin work at the theatre. She does something wrong or doesn’t like what happen, she runs away and Waif follow her. Then, she sail to Westeros alone.
Personally, I think it’s the first possibility.
But there’s still the detail of the blindness: she recovers by killing someone or she recovers after a while because she carried that along enough time?
That’s a great video. I don’t see The Waif carrying a bloody knife in that scene. Is this where she is chasing to find Arya before the sequence with a bloody knife?
I’m comparing with the other’s characters plots, or Arya’s previous plots. Usually, there’s a character speaking in councils (or being in one place) and then he/she does an important scene. Or there’s a character travelling until he/she does an important scene (or nothing at all).
First season was very moving to her, too. She left Winterfell, Mycah’s death, Ned’s execution, escape of KL and travelling.
Second, third and fourth season was all about travelling in which she encounters briefly interesting people (Tywin, Jaqen, the Brotherhood and the Hound), but nothing else.
Season five was just Arya mooping floors until she kills Trant.
This year, Arya is blind, get recovered, enter in a theatre company, get persecuted by the Waif, maybe kills someone and return to Westeros in just one season.
I couldn’t even begin to speculate, honestly. I don’t think we have enough information to provide a completely coherent chronology of the whole action sequence, let alone the context. We know it’s a chase scene, and that it looks like the Waif is after Arya with a bloody knife. Everything else is speculation.
It would be amusing if that were the case, considering that the fanbase has been guessing pretty much every other possible character as a good match for McShane, except Izembaro!
Actually, I can think of plenty of veteran British actors who would have fun chewing up that role. If we want another Potterverse crossover, there are Brendan Gleeson, Bill Nighy (presuming ‘huge presence’ doesn’t necessarily mean physically robust) and Jim Broadbent just for starters.
Not that they would be in the same scene, but didn’t they film some of Bran’s arc back during that time?
Young Stunner is definitely LYANNA STARK… and we can all figure out what the major twist in her final scene is…
…OH MY GOD IT’S FINALLY HAPPENING!!!
I think he (or she, I don’t know) has this feeling because the amount of things accomplished last season:
Last season Sansa gets raped and didn’t do anything for herself or impact the narrative at all, except redeeming Theon. And half of the focus on her scenes where given to other characters: Myranda, Theon and specially Ramsay, even the Old Lady had a moment to shine and carry the action. Since it seems she’s gonna be back at the hands of LF or some Vale or Northern lord like nothing happened, her scenes meaned nothing in the end.
Arya had this training and at least, she killed Trant. So you have the feeling that all this boring scenes at the FM temple had a purpose.
“Young Stunner” is Lyanna? I just finished binge wathing The Knick S1, and am fixated on the idea of Eve Hewson (Bono’s kid) playing Lyanna. She’s young and needs a bit of seasoning, but has one of the most hypnotic set of eyes I’ve seen in awhile.
I think Taena’s subplot has been completely cut, along with the Kettleblacks. Sounds to me more like one of the very high-priced courtesans who travel around Braavos in gondolas. Maybe Arya infiltrates a classy party and kills an aristocrat, or a Westerosi envoy?
My headcanon for Lyanna was Katie McGrath, but she’s too old T_T (those eyebrows match Maisie’s lol)
I’ll be fine if she looks more like Maisie’s than Kit’s… I watched some fancasts starred by Hailee “Juliet” Steinfield and Adelaine “Mary Stuart” Kane and both are fine actresses, but they doesn’t have blue eyes and looked more like Kit…
It would be fun if there’s no Lyanna, though and she’s another like… Elia Martell or just a girl passing by (plot twist she can be killed by the Mountain aka Frankengregor or something).
PS: Why I can’t edit my own post?
Couldn’t disagree with you more. Sansa’s experience mirrors Arya’s in a way: Both are on the path of losing their illusions. Sansa no longer is that girl who believes in the fairy tale ending (her S5 arc in the writer’s room was dubbed “Romance dies”), and Arya is on the path of regaining her Stark nature, and not that of a faceless assassin. In a way, Arya romanticizes death, the way Sansa romanticized love, and both are on the path to shedding that illusion (a familiar theme with GRRM). I realize this is hard to see sometimes because the story is still in progress and viewers don’t have all the information, but this is my sense of it.
you snow nothing,
As well as the Greyjoy’s. But we don’t know anything about the others. XD
I’m specially curious about what they’re gonna do with Tyrion and Cersei, since their book countepart is already over, and with Jaime-Brienne-Sansa triad, because it seems they will invent something new for them…
Margaery might be a better bet. However, it seems that this role might be independent of the theater troupe.
I didn’t know who this was, but she isn’t too old. She could pass for a twenty something, easily. Remember, in the show’s chronology Ned would be about thirty during Robert’s rebellion.
That is not a bad way to look at it. However, I would phrase it differently: Arya romanticizes independence: and the ability to kill other people is a necessity for independence in her world. The thin ice on which she skates is the difference between Independence as in “equal rights” is great and Independence as in an AynRandesque “my, myself and I.” The latter leads to empathy whereas the former leads to sociopathy.
Sansa’s romanticizing of love is similar: a big part of her fantasy is that someone would always be taking care of her. She has been learning the hard way the importance of having equal footings with friends and foes.
Hi, I think Trant’s death is the show version for the Night Watch brother with Sam (in the books). It makes also sense she gets blind afterwards since this is what happened in the books.
I also guess Arya, Sam and Jamie last scenes in the show are chronoligically before the other stories in S5.10. For Arya this must be the case. I mean, Maze Tyrell left King’s Landing in the beginning of S5 (episode 3?) so he must have arrived in Bravos much before Ep9. The fact that this piece of story was depicted late in the season has nothing to do with the chronological order. I remember D&D themselves said that the order of the show is not entirely chronological.
They said it because there were doubts when tywin ordered to boicott Jorah and few scenes afterwards the little birds were getting in contact with Barristan.
Said that, Arya story, in my view, will start in episode 1 this season (unlike S4 and 5). She will be probably at the end of the episode after Euron introduction (killing Balon while Yara comes back) Rickon (and the GrandNorthernCospiracy) and Bran re-introduction.
Besides LSH, in the first episode they could also make Jamie story going on (Maybe Doran kills Ellaria in front of Jamie and Trystane is sent as BookQuentyn to get Dany).
The first episode could also depict Young Griff (if and only if they decide to keep him… we thought the greyjoy were gone … and they weren’t!) and Oldtown (with a Martell new lady (Arianne or Sarella) hidden as a maester)… I imagine Oldtown first because Marwin must have the time to arrive to Essos… but they could use Sam as well as a tool to present the story.
I guess ShowSam left Castle Black some days before Jon’s death… this could be a way to justify why he will arrive to Oldtown early in the season without too much teleporting…
I can’t agree with that. I think Sansa got the message after Joffrey, wouldn’t you say? Don’t get me wrong: I actually liked Sansa’s story in Winterfell quite a bit, at least more than some people here. Though I’d hoped for more manipulation of Ramsay, pitting him against Roose maybe, I admit that’s more of a tone/theme/story-deaf hope than something that would make sense within the story they were obviously telling. My point is: I like Sansa’s story in Winterfell. But it wasn’t necessary to hammer home the point that there is no romance like in the tales of knights and maids.
Good bet! It’s not the only “good bet,” but it might be the best bet.
If (and only if) LSH is in D&D could use blindness as an excuse to make Arya warging in Nymeria and observing Catelyn resurrecyon (we don’t know how much time has passed and a Zombie is a Zombie one month or two years after death IMO). What a final scene of episode 1 could this be?
Lol certain, though not all of course, Sansa fans have been obnoxious when it comes to Arya because their petty grievances are so transparent. Sansa was in plenty of season four and five. So far, we know she’s been shooting in more secluded sets in Belfast, the usual spots. Just because we see that there’s plenty of Arya filming in Girona, it doesn’t mean there’s no Sansa or very little Sansa for season 6. It’s time to get a grip. Arya and Sansa’s story lines aren’t in a constant seesaw. They’re two separate arcs that will get the alotted time necessary for the TV show—and the books, too. I swear, I never see this weird petty shit in any other character news posts. Do people bitch about Cersei’s screen time in a Greyjoy’s post?
Sansa doesn’t believe in fairy tales since season 2. Her talks with Shae demostrates that. She dreamed of the wedding with Willas (books) / Loras (show) because it was her way to escape KL and “to have babies that will hate the Lannisters too”, not because she wanted to marry. She was smiling because she had.
So, for me Winterhell was disapointing filler because the writers thought that at the Vale there was nothing to do.
If we have had more scenes of Sansa and LF (or even Lord Bolton or Myranda) instead with Ramsay, I will have the sensation that she was learning the Game of Thrones, having some of agency (even with LF, I know!) and her character can grow in some way in a future. But after season 5, I feel like she’s exactly the same pawn and punching bag she was on season 1, but only sadder, cynical and even powerless.
But I completely agree with you that Arya’s romanticing death.
I wouldn’t have said so but… the mention of a “good twist” makes me doubt myself. Hm… Would the casting call for Lyanna ask for so little? It makes it look like such a small, simple role, not unlike a featured extra. I guess that, however important she is to the plot, she wouldn’t necessarily have to appear in more than a single flashback sequence —the Tower of Joy.
It’s been a few years since the Red Wedding in the show, not a few months. If she has to resurrect now, she’d be a skeleton.
…I really hope they show that in flashback, or only mention it – i.e. the reason we haven’t seen the Brotherhood without Banners since Season 3 is because she’s leading them now. Wouldn’t make sense to show it “live”.
I think that was certainly a big step, but not necessarily the end of it. Even after Joffrey abused her, etc. , she was still hoping to run off with Loras and be the queen of Highgarden and resume her fairy tale aspirations. Even with Tyrion, she, in a way, felt safe and cared for with him, so that may have reinforced her notions of marriage and love. I think the show’s arc (i haven’t read the last two books) has been to utterly destroy her of these notions. Even having her as the princess imprisoned in a castle in S5 seemed to be pointing to the last remnants of her old notions of how love works in this cruel world.
The Dragon Demands,
I really hope it doesn’t happen at all.
Yes, she isn’t too old, but maybe this is one of the cases the casting directors want to keep a certain age unless an actor/actress do an unforgivable scene… Like Peter Dinklage or Rory McCann, who are much older than their counteirparts…
even better since they would not require the same actress… 🙂
Behold, Mother Merciless, the Lady of a Stone Heart, [SPOILER] reborn!
Both in the books and on TV, she still had quite a few illusions left. The TV show plays it down, but Littlefinger uses these illusions quite expertly after Joffery dumps Sansa in the books. And even after Sansa is flat-out told that the only reason they are keeping her alive and why everyone treats her so well is that she will be heiress to Winterfell once her brothers are exterminated, she still convinces herself that she can make a man in love with her forget about things like claims!
The show played this down a bit, but she still clung to delusions about “good” and “evil” long after she should have done.
As for playing off Ramsay, I think that this, too, taught Sansa an important lesson. Feminine wiles such as Cersei uses will not always work. Cersei herself warns of this when she tells Sansa that if it were any man other than Stannis Baratheon attacking, she might seduce him to her will; Cersei could have added Ramsay to her list, as he would have viewed even Cersei as another fun “tumble” and dog-hunt in the end. (I suspect that book Sansa will learn a similar lesson with Harry the Heir.)
So, after her own version of Assassination_Attempt/Blindness/Enslavement/Crippling/Castration following her own version of trying to reconcile two irreconcilable causes, I expect that the Phoenix Sansa that we get next year will be all the stronger for this.
She hoped to be loved, but she was realistic about the matter (that people wants her claim and her value as a trophy wife because she’s a pretty lady, nothing else).
But Tyrion relationship will never worked, she found him disgusting at sight and a Lannister… She was ready to do her duty if they obligated her, but…
I’d forgotten about Sansa trusting the Tyrells and again falling in love with the concept of marrying a true knight; Loras in the show. So you are right.
Yeah, small part with big twist: if we’ve been right for all of these years (almost all of these decades by now!), then that is Lyanna to a tee!
(Have you sent me your opera yet? 😀 )
I’m not that precocious, I’m afraid. Give me a couple more years, at least.
I also liked Sansa in WF and I think that was necessary shortcut, but I think they sent her there for TWOW and S6.
She served a purpose in WF’s plot, in LF’s plot and Theon’s plot, but I don’t think that her presence in WF was something absolutely necessary for her as a character.
She got some great moments, and I think she was established as a person who is in a position to re-unite the Starks, who is accepting her Stark identity, but they used her more for other characters.
And that is fine. There are too many characters in this story, sometimes they must use other characters for device to develop others.
I believe she will get a chance to act and do important things in the next 30 episodes.
I don’t think the Phoenix Sansa (love the name, seriously!) will happen soon. For some reason, the writers love to make her more passive and quite than her book counterpart, so…
If she become Phoenix Sansa with a powerful army in a season, I will be surprised. The way of the show to create strong female characters are usually by the vengeful bitch route, the vengeful sword route, or the Dany’s Dictator Oneliner rout only (unless they decide to create Lady Sansa Stonheart with the army of the Vale, which is more like a mix of the three)…
Winterfell can’t be a filler in this story. Sansa wasn’t the only character of importance there.
Following up on what you wrote, I do wish that they had shown Sansa manipulate a “normal” man before crashing and burning on Ramsay. I suppose that they sort of did with Littlefinger: but something more palpable might have been nice. Still: who? when?
I agree, that there were so many rape attempts on her, that it was realistic to finally see that happening.
No one can be safe forever.
Please, please tell me that you inadvertently swapped “former’ with “latter” here, Wimsey! Empathy from a Randian?
She literally said on Loras date [talking about Highgarden]”I can’t wait to see it. And to leave this place”. So she still like the concept (who doesn’t like knights in shining armor that defeats the evil? C’mon! :D), but also has ulterior motives now…
Ok I guess this is going to be the least liked theory of the Braavos chase.
Arya is evidently fleeing from the waif. Said Waif is holding a bloody knife. Where does the blood come from? Seeing as this is Game of Thrones and the most horrific imaginations are still better than what actually happens I do have an idea.
After a fight Arya has with Jaqenesque FM she stabs him. I do not know why they fight (verbally perhaps FM hitting her) but I do think it is something that makes Arya forget herself. We already had a couple of scenes in which she gets pushed over her limits and reacts violently without thinking. The Waif sees this incident and starts attacking Arya who flees the HBW. The Waif then takes the knife and follows her with every intend of avenging her master.
Arya prly can escape but my guess would be that she has to leave needle behind as it is far to dangerous to return to fetch it.
Might be or not I kinda like it it does fit with the concept
Yes, but in the books she didn’t realise that tyrells are like lannisters.
I think that this would be impossible: there are plants that are less passive than Book!Sansa! Really, we see no sign of dynamic development in Book!Sansa until the Winter Alayne chapter. We begin to see this at the tail end of S4 for Show!Sansa, and we saw a ton of it last year. Sure, she failed miserably: but for once, she actually was trying. (Character development is one of the few places where “try” is “do”, to contradict a certain Jedi Master.)
But I do not see Sansa being leader of some huge army in a season anymore. I had suspected that they were going to do that last year, but they clearly went a different direction. (My bet is that B&W see her Vale stuff as being pretty superfluous to the overall tale.) Instead, now I look to see Sansa take over the lead of restoring Rickon. I suspect that she will be meshing what she’s learned from Cersei and Littlefinger while doing so.
(In the books, I had suspected that
An Edit Button! An Edit Button!!! My kingdom for an Edit Button!!!!!
Whoops! Yes, my bad: thanks for correcting that! Yes, empathy and Rand are pretty much mutually exclusive conditions!!!! (My “bad” does not begin to describe this… 🙁 )
Since Dany has dragons, she seems invincible.
Same with Cersei (that depends if you consider the scene of the sept as rape or not) and Margaery.
Arya was. And she’s a child of less than 1,60 heigh and less than 50 kilos, yet she killed a grown man… Trant was caught on surprise, but he can’t get rid of a child? I know he’s not the most skilled warrior of the KG, but he’s in a ok shape…If the Hound let Arya powerless with a slap, I don’t know why Trant didn’t reacted at all…
Yes, but AFAIK, they haven’t moved past the books for the Greyjoys plot, so it’s only WRT Arya that we’re “in the dark, here” *say this in Al Pacino’s voice*
She was really resentfull when Margaery and her cousins never talked again to her after the wedding, so I assume she knew that and she was ok with being used as long she was out of KL.
Im loving all the news/pics about Arya’s storyline. I was hoping she would start to feature more after missing several episodes for the last two seasons, and it sounds like she is a big part of season 6
Im wondering where this fits into the season though. Is there any news on which directors these actors will be working with? It says they are in three episodes so that would mean they will be working with two directors (and Maisie has already been seen with Mark Mylod who is directing episode 7 and 8)
She could have been replaced by the real Jeyne Poole character (or another girl) and have exactly the same result. A northerner lords believing she’s Arya (or don’t believing, but they don’t have a f*ck since they are scared of the Boltons) and Theon’s redemption. Sansa’s character was not necessary at all. (Even worst, you lost part of Theon’s sacrifice by saving the Heiress and not the Common Girl).
For some of the scenes, you literally can change her by a chair in her scenes with the others this season and have the same effect LOL
Leaving Needle behind would be the definitively abandon of her Stark roots. I don’t think that probable, since she’s gonna to return to Westeros this season.
I agree with this, almost 100%. The only thing I’d say is that she still had some learning to do regarding LF. She thinks she has his number, in S4E8, but he still screws her by going to Cersei and asking for WF in S5. I absolutely believe that her experience in WF has hardened her to things about which she was naive before.
I think the final scene with Miranda showed a flash of anger and defiance (finally!). I’ve always thought that the show dwelt on Sansa’s brutalization by Ramsay to make her rage and bloody vengeance believable. Without that the show character was just too passive to make the switch from victim to avenger.
Lmao. ‘boring scenes’, speak for yourself. They were pretty good. Unless, you enjoyed Sansa’s rape more which would be pretty creepy.
Wasn’t the “Long-haired warrior” leaked months ago?
That looks so cool!
Harry the Heir and then moved to Winterhell 😉
Since that’s what absolutely everyone expects to happen, it makes you wonder if it’s something else. A twist on our expected twist?
Why would you think the Young Stunner is Lyanna and not Sansa? If the play is about Ned getting beheaded they would need someone to play Sansa
My guess is a jealous actress has paid the Faceless Men to kill the actress playing Sansa so she can steal her spot in the play. But Arya having befriended the target decides not to kill her by the deadline.
Jaqen decides not to punish Arya for whatever reason so the waif finally loses it and kills Jaqen deciding he is showing favoritism. then she and goes after Arya with the bloody knife. Arya escapes on the boat the theater troupe is traveling on heading back to Westeros. Aryas arc will wrap up with reuniting with Nymeria in the Riverlands and finding out the castle she will be performing in is either the Twins or the Frey controlled Riverrun. The actual play will happen next season.
Next season before they give the big performance the actress intended to play Sansa turns up dead indicating the waif is in town and after Arya. Which opens up Arya for the opportunity to play her sister in a play about her fathers death.
You are welcome.
The Young Stunner casting call has nothing to do with the theater troupe.
But Lyanna is not described as a stunner in the books. She looked like Arya…..
So? I was correcting your mistaken impression that the Young Stunner casting call was related to the theater troupe. They’re not, as clearly stated in the post. In fact, the Young Stunner has already shot her scenes.
Except she is? Multiple characters call her beautiful including Ned and Kevan. Lyanna was an ugly duckling type in the books. Arya thinks that everyone said Lyanna was beautiful so surely other people about Winterfell had similar opinions.
The young stunner filmed already with no indication that she’ll be returning this week or in November to film in Northern Ireland with the other theater actors.
That would have been tehnical and financially bad, if you cast Harry, then you need the Vale lords, and their sons….etc All that Vale story, plus, the Boltons, wich they themslves needed to do something. So you get get Jeine and all the other northeners. This would have ment they needed more budget on casting, more on sets, more on directing…..all the other departament, that involve filming.
Stories are not cut because they think they can do better, but sometimes they are all but neccesary.
They chose the option, that was most viable, from a storytelling point, but also from a practical on: Merging Sansa’s story with the North story.
And besides, I think Harry will do more or less what Ramsey did. While not outright rape her, he will not be a fairy tail knight.
I like the FM stuff, but I know that a lot of viewers complained about Arya’s being boring this season because she didn’t sass anyone or didn’t stab (until the end).
To me, I would have been extended the training a bit more (with god’s and stories and more posing as other identities and such things) before the great finale, by I undertand that maybe that’s not really interesting to watchers.
Lol are we all ready to throw out the possibility that the young stunner may just be on the show to fill the tits and ass quota? Surely, Bronn has some intriguing taste in women.
I am not. But ussually those don’t get a casting call, with that kind of description.
That doesn’t sound like a character who is only there to fill the nudity quota.
but when would she have time to retrieve it? in any version she flees from the waif and immedeately leaves for Westeros and she doesn’t seem to carry needle about during the chase and water scenes
Her own brother said she was beautiful while comparing her looks to Arya. And Kevan is married to a pig so what would he know about beauty. Arya is described as looking like a boy. You can’t expect honorable Ned to think anything less of his daughter/sister.
Stop this nonsense.
Unless the twist is along the lines of The Crying Game.
So even in Westeros theatre women are supposed to be young and hot while the guys can be old. I think this will be fun but I do not know how much time there can be spent for this. But now they have 8 seasons I guess there will be more time.
In the show there’s already Vale lord’s they can use. They had already sceneries (I’m sure is easier and cheaper to record a scene in the Eerie than have 6 extras riding -riding extras cost more than “standard extras”- on a open field and two main characters in a chariot). You just have to cast a Harry the Heir instead giving more scenes to Myranda or characters like the Lady Remembers or the Old Man.
You can have the Jeyne Poole plot rescue if you want and merge Sansa in the North plot, but using her character more. Sansa-Myranda scenes can be changed with Lady Dustin/whatever equivalent and have at least the idea there’s a rebellion on the North. And though I enjoyed the Boltons, you can cut half of their conversations to add more political stuff instead having Ramsay torturing someone of an invented house that we don’t see and don’t care at all or having Myranda pissed off because she’s not the sex toy anymore. Or the Brienne conversation with the Old Man about the candle, changing the Old Man by a Northern Lord extra, saying things like “the northern lords are not happy…”. Just a few glimpses there’s something happening there.
It’s not about the rape or the Jeyne’s story, it’s the feeling that they had a great opportunity to create a good story with Sansa being political, spying and missing her family instead of the candle and crying in her bedroom, that’s all. You have a bunch of great actors hating each other and in the middle of a war in an environement who was the ashes of an ancient house. The writers created great scenes with Cersei-Margaery-and Olenna alone, give me more King’s Landing vibes and less Ramsay and his 20 good men, please!
And Kevan? You think he just throws out compliment to dead Starks? Please, up you have to make up all this reasoning for why Ned would call Lyanna beautiful to even justify your opinion. That’s not canon evidence in the slightest. Lyanna is said to be beautiful by other people besides Ned, a point you conviently ignore, and that’s the end of it. Lyanna’s looks don’t really matter but she is said by others to be beautiful. Even Arya is called pretty by mom Starks by ADWD, but that doesn’t matter either because looks are so unimportant to her tale.
Regarding Arya’s arc: Sorry if this was mentioned before. Maybe Arya is well on her way to becoming “no one”but because the play is likely about Ned’s beheading maybe this snaps her back to herself? She could be on an assignment to kill one target then sees or is involved with the play and snaps and kills the Joffrey actor or something? This would metaphorically be crossing Joffrey off her list, hehe. And then this could lead to the confrontation/ chase scene with the Waif?
*non Starks. Not ‘mom Starks’ damn autocorrect
They would be casting a red-head (or a blonde) if that were the case.
Yeah, the vegetable got a spine to go with her new brain! The fact that she has looked death in the eye (an overused cliche) might be important: the major characters have all done so now.
Yeah! The women should be boys!!!!
This immorality will not be tolerated for long.
If you uses elipsis properly, you can have a character from a corner of a continent to the other in an episode, so why not? Anyway, you just need like ten seconds to show Arya’s recovering Needle.
Ever hear of a wig?
That sounds better than Mercy’s chapter…
Episode 10: Arya kills Walder Frey.
Who, as we learn in the books, is turning out to be a very good-looking young woman. That starts becoming apparent even by Swords.
Sure. But why specify a brunette to play a red-head? You specify a brunette to play a brunette: and only when it’s important that he/she actually have brown hair. (Note that they are not planning to use a wig….)
Ramsay is a fat ugly slob in the books. Tyrion is a hideous, misshapen gargoyle in the books. Robert and Stannis are 6 and a half feet tall in the books. All of this is to say, this isn’t the books. Besides, since when is the opinion of Sansa and Jeyne Poole regarded so highly? Most of their opinions were probably based off of the way Arya dressed and acted than her actual physical looks.
Any rebellion in the North was not relevant to the story that was being told last year. Therefore, there was no reason to put it in the show last year.
If rebellion in the north is relevant to the S6 story (and it might be if Sansa or another lead character starts to take an active role in it), then that is the time to introduce it.
Ellaria’s rage and bloody vengeance make people felt the character is dumb and overacted…
Beyond the Neck, Sansa is thought to be very beautiful, but nobody ever looks twice at Arya (except maybe the Lady from Acorn Hall, and some rapers). This is because Sansa looks so much like a Southron dream, if I may say so. Arya, on the other hand, has too much of the North in her. That doesn’t mean she’s not beautiful. Lyanna would not be described as a stunner in a casting call it would be more important for her to look UNIQUE and NORTHERN. When I think stunner I think young blonde Cercei.
According to Kevan, Cersei was the Golden Child and no one could compare to her beauty, not even Lyanna. Lyanna, however, had some sort of ‘wild’ beauty about her.
Keywords “wild beauty.” The casting call would be looking for someone atypical of Hollywood bombshell standards for Lyanna. So “STUNNER” does not a sum her up.
They can do an overacted and over-the-top theatre, specially if they’re gonna mock Joffrey… Actually, ancient theatre was like that (Chinese-Japanese-Korean-Bollywood is still like that). In Mercy, the dwarf had a fake cock with painted veins and stuff, just a reminder… XD
Obviously they want to accentuate the usage of the wig. If she is already a redhead then there would be no need for an elaborate wig. Maybe the wig is meant to look slightly comedic in nature. This play is not meant to make the Starks look good. The same way in the books Tyrion is made to look like a complete buffoon.
The role of the young brunette stunner was shot the week of Aug. 5. Ian McShane’s low screentime but important role was announced on this site on Aug. 1. Max von Sydow recast as Bloodraven was announced Aug. 3. I believe that high profile casting announcements generally come just before their actual filming dates. So, in early August, while fans were still completely immersed in Kit’s hair watch, I think GoT filmed Bloodraven teaching Bran, and Bran seeing Lyanna, Mad King (McShane), young boys at Winterfell, Big Twist, etc. Sneaky, if true! 😀
Did we find out who Fergus Leatham is playing? His role was announced then too.
Well, you’re thinking creatively here! But traveling actors typically make a pittance of a living. What would the jealous actress have of such value that giving it up would satisfy the Faceless Men’s notoriously high costs for a death contract?
Indeed, it was entirely based on that. They tried to look pretty, and Arya didn’t. Sansa valued her looks, and her sycophants knew that Sansa valued being told that she was prettier than anyone else. Even Catelyn, who initially viewed women’s roles in life to look pretty and be broodmares, conceded that Arya could be pretty if she only tried.
I have my problems with the writing also(Ellaria-Jaime scene mostly) but Indira Varma is a good damn actor, and she acted her scenes perfectly.(I speak strictly about acting, not the writing of a scene, or differances in her character)
In the SHOW, Sansa says “They said she was beautiful.” Season 5 Ep. 4. Therefore, I conclude that in the SHOW, Lyana was considered a beauty. A stunner.
Thats excacty what I was thinking. Everyone in the play will look and act like very exaggerated versions of the real person. Sansas greatest feature is her long red Tully hair so it must be mocked with an overdone wig. They will probably have Cersei wearing a similar golden wig with extra curls. And if the cast Arya they will probably have her played by and ugly little boy. (Curious to see how Arya reacts to that)
Robert, Ned, Joffrey (and I’m guessing Ned kills Robert in the play, then Joffrey becomes king). But who will Arya play? Sansa? Cersei?
No, that is not remotely close to being obvious: to the contrary, I would call it circular reasoning. Moreover, this character is not being cast as part of the troupe and filmed her part a month ago. The theater troupe is not due to film it’s part for 2 months. I would say that pretty much falsifies the idea that the stunning brunette has anything to do with the theater.
Ditto that for book Lyanna. She was not just good looking, but she also seems to have had an almost palpable charisma.
Whether Arya is in the theater troupe as part of a long/short term mission or as camouflage for her HoB&W escape, it should be quite intriguing. Even in TWoW, killing Raff the Sweetling should have its ramifications as well. I quite enjoy the idea of Arya using the troupe activities as a vehicle for getting back to Westeros. Should be quite the obnoxious troupe too! No Bobono? 🙂
I love how these speculative “spoilers” work with what we know from various AFfC/ADwD/TWoW chapters.
You seem to be missing what several people have already pointed out: the “stunner,” is not part of the acting troupe. As others have already pointed out as well, they would not be specifically calling for a brunette just to throw a wig on her.
You’re of the opinion Lyanna was not a “stunner,” but obviously, many other book-readers interpret her description as being quite beautiful, and often-times non-conventional beauty is described as stunning.
Somebody in a costume at the theatre set.
If she knew she would be performing in front of very important people across the narrow seas in Westeros. And if she was a very ambitious person who had never seen the world before and was dying to leave her home to meet a rich Lordly husband who falls madly in love with her after watching her amazing performance on stage? ….. This might lead her to take very drastic measures.
It’s spelled “bonobo” And why would a pygmy chimp be involved?
I’m not married to the idea that the stunning woman is part of the theater troupe. I am however willing to bet anything that she is NOT Lyanna Stark.
Oh, for…Look. TV Lyanna is supposed to be beautiful. TV Sansa says as much in 5×04: “They say she was beautiful.” Not “Father said,” but “they say”; that’s an important distinction. Moreover, Lyanna is the Helen of Troy of Westeros. The easiest shorthand to explain to the audience why she’s worth going to war over is to make her a “stunner.” Hollywood’s idea of “wild beauty” is “conventional beauty with her hair mussed up a little.” That’s what we’re going to get.
Book Lyanna is also beautiful. Even Book Kevan, who like all Lannisters thinks nothing could possibly have any value if it’s not of the Lannisters, grudgingly admits as much to himself.
As for Book Arya, we know that Book Arya is a dead ringer for Book Lyanna as a child (confirmed by Bran’s ADWD vision where he mistook a young Lyanna for Arya). All indications are that even if she was outshone by Sansa as a child, she’s turning into a very attractive young woman. The Faceless Men even offer to send her to be trained as a courtesan, something that would be barred to her if she weren’t pretty enough. There are some pretty children who turn out to be pretty adults, and there are some gawky children who turn into stunners once they hit puberty. I’m guessing Arya falls in the latter category.
BTW, how´s that rape dissertation on wikia coming along ?
I was looking at the close-up of the “bloody knife” that the Waif is carrying and thinking, “Hmm, that looks pretty fake for GoT, the blade has no sharp edge. But maybe it’s only going to be seen from a distance.” Then it hit me: I’ll bet it’s a stage prop from the mummers’ play, not a real knife at all! That might explain why the Waif is so nonchalant about walking through a crowded portico with it visibly clutched in her hand.
This is Game of Thrones, not Coronation Street. Or Hollywood Housewives.
it’s not about the time it would take her to get it or them to show it but if the waif wants her life then she will have an eye out and it would be impossible for arya to even approach HBW without the waif seeing/knowing it and coming after her.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
But Hollywood doesn’t think that way. When they say stunner we all know they are thinking Pam Anderson, Megan Fox. ect
For example what good would it have done to cast an actress more attractive than Lena Heady as Catelyn Stark? Whoever plays Lyanna should look at least as attractive as Lena but not more.
She couldn’t. We already saw some random girl eaten by dogs in S4 and Theon didn’t care and the audience didn’t care. Everyone forgot her even before the episode was ended.
Tell that to the Cersei story line from Feast Of Crows and season 5. And while your at it tell that to the Sansa story line from season 1.
Cersei’s Crows storyline was Homer Simpson Tries Machiavelli, not Coronation Street.
Surely, you jest! I’m fairly sure I meant Bobono, ser! [Tyrion’s troupe stand-in]
I am so looking forward to Arya’s storyline this season! Promises to be great.
Perhaps they’re not too worried about the public nature of her filming because it’s distracting from something else. 🙂
I had forgotten the name! I wonder if GRRM did that deliberately. (I am surprised that I didn’t pick it up immediately.)
Oh snap. We need to find out who the stunner is 😀
See, some people think of Lena as quite stunning. Perhaps you don’t, but some do…and I’m quite glad GoT has shied away from casting Pamela Anderson-types. I understand many find her beautiful, or did at one point, but she’s cookie-cutter blonde boring beauty, to me.
Unfornately for the sake of this argument I dont know what Coronation Street is because I’m not “one you”. So I’ll assume its a soap opera based on your tone.
Why does “Homer Simpson Tries Machiavelli” not apply to a pie in the sky angst ridden actress who takes drastic measures to secure a future for herself that involves murder and deception?
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Me too. That is exactly why I don’t think Lyanna will be played by this “stunner”.
Indeed, many of us males in the “over 40” crowd think that she’s the hottest woman on the show! (*oink. oink*) Well, except for the “way-over 40” crowd that prefers Diana Riggs…..
Er, what is “one of us” where Coronation Street is concerned? A denizen of planet Earth? Then I great you, insect overlord!
At any rate, they are not going to introduce a new character with a silly soap-operaish storyline such as you have proposed. Hell, they cut Arianne from the show last year. Given everything that people here have written, I think that you need to abandon this conjecture. The character simply has nothing to do with the theater troupe in the first place.
Then why would they care what the actress’ real hair colour was to begin with? The point is moot anyway, it’s not a call for a member of the troupe.
[Assuming Lyanna] Just as long as a “Laughing Tree” is involved with the overall mystique of this character, I will have nary a care as to the eye-of-the-beholder beauty of her.
We have not gotten any hints that this will be included. I don’t know that it is necessary, but if it could be squeezed into the show, then I think that the benefits would outweigh the costs.
Not knowing the story or what the basic plotlines are for this year really does make it tough to guess how this might fit into the tale, or whether it would be Procrustean to do so. However, GRRM did say that the past would become important in Winter: and that demands flashbacks on TV/film, as characters just talking about it simply does not communicate things well.
Agreed – and also would be a bit hamfisted compared to the overall messages of her story. She gets her champions in King’s Landing, just like in the songs – but they are a big fat drunk (whom she rescues), a despised dwarf, and a disfigured man who is more akin to the medieval reality of knighthood in England, despite rejecting all that knighthood entails. He is a second son, not due to inherit (though… I think I remember Ned stripping Gregor of the inheritance of Clegane Keep in response to his atrocity-tastic rampage across the Riverlands) and has risen to fame / infamy by killing lots of people. Historically, that’s what knights did in England, where knighthood was earnt, not inherited as on the Continent. They were normally middle-class younger sons in a feudal society who were out to earn respect and cash with their swords. The overriding theme seemed to me to be simply: the reality is not as cute as Sansa thought, back when she was a young kid who had had a very sheltered upbringing. She realises Joffrey is a cunt when he has her father murdered – it certainly doesn’t need any more hammering home! 😛 At that time she declares to herself that there are no heroes. She later appears to be learning that there are, after a fashion, but that they have feet of clay.
This has just made my evening.
Lyanna was described as having ‘wild beauty’. Everyone in Winterfell commented on how beautiful she was. Kevan and Meera Reed also pointed out her good looks. Robert only saw her beauty. Rhaegar named her Queen of Love and Beauty, then chose her for whatever. Arya was only described as horseface by her sister and her bff. Not exactly a reliable source of fair judgement. And she’s clearly an ugly duckling type, already growing into her looks as noted by a few characters. Besides, looking like someone doesn’t mean being a carbon copy of someone. A cleaned-up older Arya may very well be a beauty.
Ten points to House Occam for finding an excuse to use the term Procrustean! Not an opportunity that comes along very often, I must say (except possibly in the dungeons of the Dreadfort).
Unfortunately, Sansa then goes back to looking for heroes in the Tyrells, Dontos, etc. And it took her quite some time to realize that it was her title for which people were concerned, and not her person. We do not get any indication of Sansa thinking for herself until the very tail end of her third and final Crows chapter, and no real sign of it until her Winter chapter. And the idea that she, herself, has to be her own knight in shining armor has not yet occurred to her.
One of the reasons I think the “stunner” in the casting call could be Lyanna is precisely because the show has cast non cookie-cutter beauties as characters known for their beauty. The fact she’s already filmed, the filming was in Belfast (I believe), which tells me it’s an interior scene, we know we’re getting the ToJ, and her age just support the idea she could be, at least in my mind.
heh, where it probably is considered the most obvious solution!
I think Richard E. Grant will be the theater troupe leader. Aristocratic, Over the top…(think his part on DW “Great Intelligence”.) Sounds a lot like him.
(Of course the Arya/Gendry shipper in me wonders how they get him back in Arya’s storyline. Any ideas?)
True. Most characters in the show are better looking than their book counterparts are supposed to be. Show canon =/= book canon. And still in both Lyanna was perceived as beautiful. Even if she had been average/ugly in the books, I very much doubt the show would stay true to that.
I don’t think Mace can conceivably replace Raff. Sure, in theory, he’s important, but Mace on the show is a comic relief character, and he hasn’t done anything to Arya. Even if you thought it was in character that she might do that, there’s no way the show would have a sympathetic character murder one of the show’s clowns like that. That’s way darker than even anything the book character has done.
That would have required her to attempt to use “feminine wiles” at some point, which she never did. Ergo, she cannot have learned that lesson. The only lesson she could possibly have learned in Winterfell is “don’t go into your enemy’s stronghold with no allies and no plan and agree to marry them for no reason”. Which: duh.
It’s very possible, and it’s exactly what the writers did, quite consistently, and particularly in the first three seasons, where they cut pretty much all of her active story in King’s Landing, everything from going to Cersei (though that was because they thought it would be too unsympathetic) to her involvement with Dontos (instead she gets dragged out unawares). The one time they had her be more active was at the end of Season 4, and they immediately ignored the implications of that to put back where the book character is in terms of her relation to Littlefinger (what she does in Season 5 is no different in practice from what the book version does, doing whatever Littlefinger says, except that the writers had earlier given the show version greater independence from Littlefinger so it doesn’t make sense for her to just credulously do whatever he tells her, particularly as unlike the book his plan makes no sense).
As slightly shortened Theon can well attest.
It is not soap operaish. You could say anything involving a theater troupe is soap operaish if you’re intent on being intellectualy lazy. It is a great way to involve Arya in a dramatic story line that revolves around getting her back to Westeros in a non forced way, It is also a great way at showing the politics of what happens when someone pays The Faceless Men for a death and how much freedom they have with whether or not they are obliged to kill that person or not. It also adds character development to Jaqen and the Waif. It also gives Arya a chance to show whether he has any compassion for others left in her.
Simply put it’s better than seeing a midget sexually harass a little girl with his cock hanging out of his zipper.
Sansa is “thinking for herself” all the time when she’s a hostage. She’s just not very experienced and there frankly isn’t much she can do. She’s quite aware that Dontos is a bit of a loser, but he’s the only person offering to help her escape, so she decides to take the risk (which is also why she dumps Dontos when the Tyrells present what seems like a better offer).
Well, she must have been stunning enough for R to run off with her or kidnap her.
We are only assuming that she will play Lyanna,
“I am however willing to bet anything that she is NOT Lyanna Stark.”
Are you sure about that?
To me, she acted more “naturally” being Oberyn’s paramour than Angry Ellaria, with grinding teeth and a weird accent… I saw her acting completly different than previous Ellaria. But that’s my opinion.
What does the theater troupe have to do with any of this at this point? One, I was referring to Cersei. Two, we know that the part in question has nothing to do with the theater troupe. Three, even if it did, then they are not going to introduce new protagonists at this point: and the storyline that you are suggesting is one for a protagonist, not for some supporting role.
Hardly: she’s just confused the entire time. Being confused is not thinking. A thinking person would take all of the fact that do not fit his/her premises and think “my premises obviously are flawed; what general premises explain what is happening around me?” Sansa simply asks over and over: why aren’t things the way that they are supposed to be? At best, she starts asking whether any of the stories are true. However, she never does what a thinking person does: and that is start inductively extrapolating to a new set of general premises to explain what is happening around her, and to start forming plans around those.
(And, no, that she is only 12 or 13 is no excuse: thinking people are doing that at a much younger age.)
She certainly did in some of her early conversations with Ramsay! Feminine wiles do not necessarily involve unbuttoning of blouses or blatant suggestions, after all. Alas! Ramsay was able to put on charms of his own.
D&D succeeded in making Sansa so important that GoT fandom has been discussing her character for months.
I think that in 2015, Sansa was the most discussed GoT character.
Compare that to books, where many forgot she even exists.
Sansa liked pretty things and being pretty for herself, but never cared too much about being called pretty, all she cared was to please. Actually, what Sansa values a lot was being told that she’s smart. It’s a great weakness of her that Littlefinger exploits masterfully. She has been bashed with jokes about her silliness and insults to her intelligence, even before King’s Landing, to the point that she’s totally lost confidence in her intelligence. She thinks she’s stupid and acts accordingly. For example she understood the consequences of the Joff-Marge marriage, but she dismissed her conclusions because *of course* she’s wrong because she’s so stupid so she’s obviously missing something. Littlefinger with the tinyst praise to her brains made her feel “absurdly proud”, he won her with that not with beauty compliments.
I do not think Rhaegar “took” Lyanna because of her beauty. I think he thought he needed her to fulfill the prophecy. Crowning her the Queen of Love and Beauty is a good way to get your foot in the door for any man.
? You said the story line I proposed was soap operaish. I just explained why it is not. I don’t see what could be confusing about that.
Brian Cox for the Grande Theater Actor/ Manager!
That casting call might or might not be Lyanna. But your argument for it not to be her is flimsy at best. You’re too hung up on the word ‘stunner’ and twisting what’s canon, trying to grasp at straws. But it’s all subjective and up to the showrunners’ interpretation, not yours.
A young beautiful woman with a specified hair colour having 2/3 scenes and a major twist. Can’t see someone random in that role.
No, she is attempting to navigate the court and determine what the best course of action to take is, and assess the motives of people around her and whether they can be trusted. All of that is the definition of thinking for yourself. She’s manipulated by many people and struggles, but to say she isn’t even trying is extraordinarily dismissive.
No, she most definitely doesn’t. In her courtyard scene with Ramsay she does little more than say hello, then they don’t interact again until episode 5’s dinner scene, where all she does is glower at everyone else at the table before Ramsay makes her cry, then they get married and he rapes her. At no point does she attempt to win him over or manipulate him to accomplish something.
Are courtesans only found in Braavos?
They are typical of Braavos in the books AFAIK, and their skills go beyond mere sex.
I said I wasn’t married to the idea that its the theater girl. No need to beat a dead horse. The storyline was the more important point anyways.
If I see a vapid Hollywood Megan Fox type playing strong willed Lyanna I know I will be disappointed. If you are OK with that than Seven Blessings.
I think the usage of the term in the books is linked the Braavosi. Everywhere else they’re just called whores or (in Slaver’s Bay) bed slaves — though of course, in Braavos the courtesans are way more than just people you buy sex from.
You can introduce a character and develop it later. That’s what happened with almost every character of the story, excepting the main-main ones (Jon, Dany, Tyrion, etc).
How? Stannis is not a northern lord and his army was crashed with 20 good men in a 30 seconds scene and the rest omited.
The Old Lady only says to Sansa: “The North Remembers”. That’s all. The North who? I have prefered a scene in which she’s with the other characters earing their conversations. And Sansa saying that to the Old Lady, not reversed.
Well, we cared for Karsi (an extra who popped out less than 15 minutes) or Hazzea’s father who was in 1 minute and said three lines of dialogue. If you’re not worried about a girl screaming and crying repeatedly onscreen, you have a serious problem. Oberyn was a full season and half of his scenes were filler in brothels, and you mourned his death as well. Why not try with Jeyne? Jeyne’s there, she’s not a forgeable name said by Ramsay in a scene that has on purpose to prepare Ramsay’s to his imminent wedding. That house never existed inuniverse or outuniverse to the audience, because we were more focused on who will be the bride and what reaction Ramsay’ll have.
About political stuff… The Boltons torturing someone is not political stuff, it’s just Bolton’s noisy background sound. Next.
I don’t understand you. Charlotte Hope did a well acted character, but in the end, Myranda is just to fill boobs quota, be pervy with Ramsay and catfight with Sansa. Nothing else. We knew she was going to be killed and she won’t harm Sansa, Theon or Fat Walda in any way.
Why delay something relevant one more season when the writers are complaining all days they don’t have enough time? They cut Tyrion’s and Brienne’s travel almost entirely, and Bran’s story.
Now the Northern lords will be mixed with the Greyjoys, which they’re not really important to anyone at this moment.
I want Sansa starting to be political like she was on season 4, specially after all the hype created with the character and the Maleficent dress. Season 5 was a huge backstep and it seems she won’t be able to be political in a while, since she’s stuck in the forest with Theon. To reach a place were she can do something will take its time. Do you want more whining-passive Sansa?
Wow, she said a comment about bastards, what a clash. Ramsay killed Walda? Nop. Ramsay confronted his father? Nop. Like she was talking about the sun and stairs.
We saw her saying a line about her mother, in a place where her two little brothers where murdered, one said brother was throwed by a window and there’s still the possibility that she was raped in her parents’ bed. One line.
We saw how furious was Ramsay with the bastard. Did she used that information about Bolton’s dinamic in a meaninful way, like convincing Lord Bolton to disinherit Ramsay, making friends or warning Walda or pushing Ramsay against his father? Did that have any impact at all? Noooop.
In a season in which Brienne can found another Stark girl, LF imprisoners Loras, Margaery and Cersei effectively, Dany pet its dragons, Arya learned how to face change, Tyrion ended as ruler of Meereen, and even Ellaria and the SS have their vengeance, that was disapointing and a waste of time.
So the Play is about how Line Dancing became a craze in Kings Landing?
Why has the actress playing the actress playing Cersei not got her comedy extra long blonde wig on yet?
The more we talk about this, the more I want to see it.
Now I want to see the extended version of ALL the seasons. Jon can have a puppy doll wolf and Dany miniDragons. Ned’s actor is always sad and saying winter is coming and Cat being in a fish costume. And Cersei being a man and Jaime a woman LOL
Considering she has dark brown hair and a modern looking hat that Cersei Never wears one would assume it is either not supposed to be Cersei or she simply isn’t done being outfitted yet.
If stunner is Lyanna, than perhaps rather than King Joffrey the blonde kid is Rhaegar and the manager fellow is Robert?
No, he must be a Northerner; he did say “Winter is coming” several times in that episode 😉
You can introduce a character and develop it later.
Stannis wasn’t crushed by 20 men, and he heard that Norther lords had refused him, because they are loyal to the Starks.
And about an old lady, you said you wanted a sense of resistance, you got that.
I’m not, because I know that that girls is not real, and she is not even a character in this story.
because half of his scenes weren’t filler in brothels?
Because they have a better character for that.
It is a political stuff, because they are torturing someone for political reasons.
I don’t understand you. You want the Vale plot, the Vale plot has Myranda, you got Myranda, and you are complaining?
Because that wasn’t relevant in ADWD and Northern lords didn’t do anything important in Book 5. They were just introduced.
You don’t know what is important and what isn’t.
And I wanted Robb to kill Joffrey.
Not in S5.
She said many things about her family that you are ignoring, but she can’t speak with her. Ramsay and Roose are not the right persons for that sort of thing, aren’t they?
LOL. Yes, Sansa Stark can do that. Roose Bolton is not a complete idiot.
For what purpose? But even if they made scene like that, you would whine that about fillers.
Then why was she in Winterfell, if there was no chance of her accomplishing anything?
Because it is an interesting story and she is not the only important character there?
I made so many mistakes, but we don’t have edit option, so I hope you can understand my hieroglyphs
I miss the
ditedit function as well! XD
I’m sure WOTW is working on it and the spoiler coding.
Both will return soon I’m sure…
I’m yet to read an alternative to the Season 5 for Sansa that was better than we got. And I’m talking rough episode descriptions. Bearing in mind that if you don’t have her in WF then some time has to be taken away from her for the Reek WF story anyway.
I don’t think it was amazing, but I really don’t get what the fuss was about. Sansa is no where near a political genius. She wasn’t in Season 4, and probably never will be. It’s funny because people criticised Darth Sansa for being too quick a transformation, and when D&D show that actually it wasn’t a complete transformation they still get criticised.
Obviously the reason the show put her there was because they wanted to use her as Jeyne Poole and thought that would be a better damsel for Theon to rescue, yes. But that wasn’t what I was talking about. I was saying, if Sansa going to Winterfell is an utterly insane idea from the start because it has no chance of accomplishing anything (which is correct), how does her going there not make her look like a complete idiot?
Because she didn’t know that she will be left alone there?
And she accomplished to have an interesting storyline, something her book version didn’t have in 15 years.
Even if you start from the premise that Sansa has to go to Winterfell (which I question; there’s nothing wrong with a character having a more minimal presence if there’s not much for them to do at a given juncture; indeed, the writers wrote Bran out of the show entirely last season, so they clearly agree), there were a zillion ways that could have been improved, such as Sansa having something like a real plan, and there being actual conflict there instead of her being immediately imprisoned and brutalized (for instance, it seems like it’s setting up that Roose’s “play nice” directive will create tension between Ramsay’s evil urges and Roose’s ordering him to make this alliance work, but instead Ramsay just rapes and imprisons her with no consequences at all; Roose doesn’t even react to this, even though it completely blows up the alliance he just formed).
Yes, the end of Season 4 was incredibly rushed (even if the writers hadn’t cut most of Sansa’s KL character development, it would have been; Sansa doesn’t really start learning to play the game until the Vale, because it’s just not possible to do it in KL), but once the writers had had that happen, they placed Sansa in a far safer and superior situation to any the book character has ever been in, and then completely ignore that in Season 5, which makes the character look more naive than she was even in Season 1.
What was she expecting Littlefinger to do, given that they’ve got like five guys and are in a fortress with an army of thousands? There’s never the slightest plausible explanation for why she would ever agree to go to Winterfell or think there was anything she could do there (and indeed, once she arrives she swans around like she’s accomplishing something, even though all she’s doing is sulking and glowering), and that’s before she allows Littlefinger to take her away from her allies and travel several hundred miles without asking where they’re going (even though they’re on a road that only goes north). There’s a reason why so many people who defended this story were insisting that obviously there was more of a plan told to Sansa offscreen and any second now it would be revealed, only to be dumbfounded when that never came. It was never more than a contrivance to make Sansa into Ramsay’s rape-slave and Theon’s damsel, and I don’t consider that a remotely interesting story.
People like to criticize and like to over-analyze every scene and every line this show ever had. I don’t know that any show gets that treatment.
Yes, but there weren’t a better alternative. You could argue they could change some minor things, but everything big was important.
In the books, you have LF and his marriage for Sansa to take the North, and you have Roose and his marriage for Ramsay to control the North. The most logical move for the show, the show that is already struggling with too many characters and storylines, was to merge those two plots.
And D&D obviously know that Sansa will be in the North in TWOW, so that change was even more logical from adaptation standpoint.
That’s only “logical” if you don’t care about Sansa’s character development, because putting her in that story resulted in any sense of her character learning anything being completely shredded, and required her to act even more naive than she did in Season 1.
On the one hand, you have Sansa, on the other Roose, Ramsay, Theon, LF, the North, more coherent story…
The choice is obvious. You are obsessed with Sansa and you can’t see that this story has so many important characters.
And Sansa had a character development, just not in the way you wanted.
No, people insisted that there was more to LF’s plan, than just waiting for Stannis, and there was. *
Originally Sansa’s season 5 storyline involved her wedding being interrupted by attacking wolves and direwolves leading to her escape through the woods. All of this would have happened in episode 6 substituting for the rape.
The episode would have ended with a dramatic close up of the weirwood tree with its eyes slightly lit up.
In episode 7 Ramsay declares he will take Reek and Miranda to find Sansa because Reek knows these woods better than he would.
The next time we see Sansa would be episode 8 and she would be deep in the woods by now following a a wolf pack..
The sabotage on Stannis’s camp would be organized by Roose instead of Ramsay. Roose would use Ramsays absense as another strike against him in the inheritance struggle.
In episode 10 Ramsay and Miranda would split up when they realize they might be closing in on Sansa. Reek would go with Miranda. Miranda would find Sansa alone hiding. She will point the crossbow at Sansa and threaten her like she did in Mothers Mercy. Theon would then grab the crossbow and wrestle it away from Miranda;
While this is going on Sansa will sneak up on her and stab her with a sharpened branch or some sort of item found in Winterfell that Ramsay would recognize when he see’s it.
Theon would then leave with Sansa.
The scene between Sansa and Theon when she grabs his face and demands to know why he killed Bran and Rickon would have happened in season 6 episode 1. And it would take place right before Brans first scene back.
This is on “the website.”
In the same episode or
I agree. GRRM depicts them as the Essosi equivalent of the most elite geishas, highly trained in other arts besides those of the boudoir.
Exacly. I do not agree with Ian as the Mad King, but I really think he is part of a flashback.
Attacking wolves and dire wolves leading to her escape through the woods? This is not Snow White.
Why would Sansa want Theon’s help? How could he start his “coming back” without something as traumatic as Sansa’s rape? Why would Sansa want to escape from WF if Ramsay didn’t hurt her? Sansa is not a killer, she wouldn’t stab anyone.
I’m not the biggest Sansa fan and haven’t taken the time to perform a proper analysis, but even I know that Sansa killing anyone would ruin her character.
No, many people were indeed insisting that obviously Sansa had been told more, and that was why she agreed to go (and also, the subsequent information about Littlefinger’s plan actually makes his sending Sansa to Winterfell make less sense).
Seeing as Sansa is the most important character of the bunch (even according to the show’s own writers), weighing her against antagonists like Roose and Ramsay is not much of a comparison. A story that shafts her character in order to serve them is not a good choice.
Sansa’s arc is about developing her skill as a player of the game, which she did not do at all this season. Indeed, the basic premise required her to become even more naive than she was in Season 1. All she did was relearn a bunch of things she already knew in King’s Landing, and proved less effective in Winterfell than in King’s Landing (for instance, in King’s Landing she knew not to insult people to their faces, and she was actually able to manipulate Joffrey on occasion).
I like this scenario SO much better than what we got stuck with. Can it be that the abrupt flattening of Sansa’s character arc is attributable merely to HBO’s unwillingness to budget enough SFX money to render Nymeria’s big wolfpack last season? That would be a real bummer of a missed opportunity.
That person is either trolling or has some very strange ideas.
No. Not at all.
Why is Sansa the most important character there?
Her becoming a player is the biggest red hearing in this story. The only evidence we have four that are words from GRRM and D6D outside the story.
That just goes to show how much opinions can differ. When I was finished reading what Throbbing Strong described (what is “the website,” btw) I thought, well, if that’s legit, I’m glad it was changed to what we got. While it took me a little while to warm up to it, just because it was so, so very different, I ended up quite enjoying Sansa in Winterfell, last season.
Are you…are you being serious with this argument? I’m genuinely not sure if you are, but if so: good grief, you’re really stuck on this “stunner” thing aren’t you? Look, your version of what’s “stunning” seems to be very narrow, but regardless let me remind you that the show has not always cast true to the book description. Does Kit Harington have grey eyes and a long face (and did the book ever mention his now iconic curls)? Nope. Do Maisie and Kit look alike? Not really. Lyanna really only needs to be exactly what they described – around 20 (along with the aged-up show-verse) and brunette. How the actress falls on the spectrum of beauty is totally irrelevant, although I agree with M that she must have had a “face that launched a thousand ships”.
On balance, I think the casting call is for Lyanna. If it’s not for her, congrats, you’ll be half right, but your reasoning is completely unsound.
Why, if he’s planning to attack the winner of the battle, does he want to give Sansa to either of them? His whole plan hinges on Cersei not investigating anything he tells her (as, indeed, she doesn’t), so it’s not necessary to send Sansa there in case she does. If she does, he’s screwed, seeing as he publicly took Sansa there with banners flying.
Even the writers said that, dude. That’s why they made her the main focus, even though the actual story is about motivating Theon to do something (which is one of the problems with the way they told it, since Theon, the person who this story was originally written for, ends up playing at best second-banana).
There’s tons of ‘evidence’ in her story. That’s why people who have been analyzing her story all these years have said as much.
I think the answer is that he is not being serious with that argument (for some reason, Arya acquired a bunch of trolls last season; at the time I wondered if it was people trolling in response to fans who complained that Arya didn’t have enough screentime, but the latter group have gone quiet, for the most part, and the former are still around).
As far as casting goes, the actress playing Lyanna needs to look like Kit. In the books, Arya and Jon look alike, and so Arya looking like Lyanna is GRRM’s sneaky way of getting in an “A=B and B=C ergo A=C”. But in the show, Maisie and Kit don’t particularly look alike.
I am just so fed up with the endlessly recycling Sansa-as-helpless-victim trope. It reminds me of the Perils of Pauline serials, where the heroine always ends up tied to a railroad track or something. I find it cheesy and, as a woman, a little demeaning. Not that every female character has to be a Brienne or an Arya, but at the very least Sansa needs to channel her passivity into passive-aggressiveness. There’s more than one way to win a battle of wills, and not all involve brute force.
Because he needs Cersei’s permision.
Just like in Book 1 his whole plan hinges on Roberts dying in the hunt.
You should stop quoting the writers to back up your points.
Well, wasn’t the main complaint that they didn’t make her the main focus during the rape scene and afterwards?
Over-analyzing her story to find her purpose in ASOAIF.
There is nothing political in her character at all. Nothing.
You’re probably right. I’ll stop straining my ocular muscles by engaging in eyerolling arguments and just ignore!
Agree it would be lovely it the actress looked like Kit.
I do not see Sansa’s character as a recycling of the helpless victim trope, nor do I find her characterization demeaning to women.
Again, that just goes to show how much opinions can differ.
The same purpose identified by her creator and by the showrunners?
As to the value of the story, we obviously disagree and have said our points, so I’ll leave it at that.
That’s the weirdest Twilight mash-up fanfic ever.
How is that anything like Twilight? It is void of any romance or vampires.
If we need to use their words to analyze this story, I think they didn’t do a good job of writing her as a character they want her to be.
In this story every character in involved with fights, magic or politics, and Sansa can’t be an exception, but when the times come I believe it will be similar to Robb’s and Jon’s experience. She will be “forced” to become a part of politics in some capacity.
But I clearly don’t believe in any sort of “school for politicians” arc, some of her fans expect from both the show or the books. Anyone who ever was part of politics, knows that things work differently in the real world.
In politics she needs an army or money.
She doesn’t have any of those yet. And no matter how many smart monologues from LF she has listened, she can’t do anything without an army or money.
And I didn’t get the sense from both the books or the show that she understands that.
For the last time I never gave “my version” of the word stunner. This is all about Hollywood’s version of the word stunner and WHEN they use that word specifically to describe an actress it usually falls into a narrow category of vapid blonde big boobed airbrushed model types. I am saying I don’t think this is what they would have in mind for Lyanna which is why I don’t believe this rumor pertains to her.
When the producers of Xena the Warrior Princess put out a casting call looking for the role of Xena I doubt they would use the word stunner in the description. That does NOT mean she can’t be attractive or even beautiful but it does eliminate a CERTAIN type of look described above.
How is this so hard to understand?
If we need to use their words to analyze this story, I think they didn’t do a good job of writing her as a character they want her to be.
In this story every character in involved with fights, magic or politics, and Sansa can’t be an exception, but when the times come I believe it will be similar to Robb’s and Jon’s experience. She will be “forced” to become a part of politics in some capacity.
But I clearly don’t believe in any sort of “school for politicians” arc, some of her fans expect from both the show or the books. Anyone who ever was part of politics, knows that things work differently in the real world.
In politics she needs an army or money.
She doesn’t have any of those yet. And no matter how many smart monologues from LF she has listened, she can’t do anything without an army or money.
And I didn’t get the sense from both the books or the show that she understands that. But we will see.
It’s about as ridiculous.
“Why would Sansa want Theons help?”
She doesn’t need to want his help, she didn’t ask him to throw Miranda off the roof either. They are both on the run so it is only natural they run together. And like It says in my post Sansa will have time for confronting Theon about her brothers in season 6 episode one. Sansa would want to escape Winterfell because the Boltons betrayed her family and she knows they are gearing up for a war in which anything can happen during the course of. Which would be a throwback to season 2 when Cersei explains to Sansa what happens to women during a siege.
How much more motivation would Theon need after everything that’s been done to him, add on seeing Sansa about to be maimed with a crossbow knowing she will be taken back to the castle and tortured the way he was tortured is all he would need to see to stop Miranda.
Perhaps they lengthened Mirandas monologue on exactly what she and Ramsay would do to her for trying to escape and while shes explaining we see a close up of Theons face and we realize that he’s seen and been victim to all these horrific acts.
No Rape Necessary.
Also the sources have said Sansa might not be the one to kill Miranda in the original script. Theon was said to possibly incapacitate her and flee. Ramsay upon discovering she let Theon get away with Sansa would kill her there on the spot.
And judging by what we saw in Mothers Mercy that is most likely what would have happened.
I’d still love to know what “the website” is to which you referred. I’m curious what sort of place would be posting something like that and representing it as the original story line for Sansa in season 5.
Your unbridled negativity is about as ridiculous as your lack of support for this awesome turn of events.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
It’s not up anymore. It’s seasonal and changes every year about a week after the finale airs. I stumbled on it by accident so I don’t remember what it was called. Something about the North Grove but many people think it’s just a story parents tell their children.
Anyways I guess the show runners don’t want it getting out just how much more awesome the show could have been and didn’t want to be forced to keep answering questions about it in interviews.
It isn’t up anymore, but you can quote it directly???
Sorry, I don’t for a second think it’s legit, and imo, it would have been anything but awesome.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Thank you! It’s true, I don’t have ridiculous support for mysterious unverifiable magical stories.
The fact you were able to directly quote it, but it’s no longer up on “the website,” a site you seem to know a fair amount about (it’s seasonal, changes every year about a week after the finale airs), yet can’t remember the name of it, is more than enough for me to determine it is not legitimate. There are plenty of other reasons, but enough time has been spent on this little detour. I’m not trying to be rude, and maybe someone else will be willing to engage you further on it, but I’m not.
Back OT: There’s been so much news I can’t keep it all straight, but haven’t there been other casting calls for featured Dothraki warriors? It looks like Daenerys will be spending a fair amount of time with them.
We don’t need to use their words. Innumerable fans had already identified that; their words are merely confirmatory.
The way I see it, Littlefinger wants to bring the Vale army to the North, and doing that presents a couple of difficulties:
1) If he does it without Cersei’s permission, it’s a big tip-off to her that he has taken control of the Vale for himself, and is no longer supporting her. At the beginning of the season when he was starting his plan, he probably had no idea how quickly her reign would implode, because rearming the Faith was probably pretty unexpected for everyone. He may have been able to get the army into the North and beyond Cersei’s reach before she could react, but that would leave the Vale itself very vulnerable to counter-attacks, so the Lords of the Vale would probably be very reluctant to go along with the plan without some ruse to keep Cersei believing they were still loyal to the crown.
2) It would be very hard to get the army into the North without Roose Bolton’s permission. The Boltons hold Moat Cailin, and the Vale army isn’t fighting past that without taking heavy losses (if at all). Remember, the Bolton army couldn’t cross until Ramsay and Theon got rid of the few sick, starving Ironborn holding Moat Cailin. Also, Littlefinger may be hoping to approach Winterfell as a supposed ally so he can take the castle by surprise rather than a long siege.
Roose Bolton isn’t going to let Littlefinger just march into the North with an army without some serious offer. Roose was appropriately skeptical and suspicious even with the offer of Sansa, but at the time he was facing a potential Northern uprising, as well as Stannis. If the Northern lords had decided to side with Stannis, things might have gone very differently in the battle at Winterfell. For Roose, Sansa was worth more than his alliance with Cersei.
Littlefinger was probably hoping that Stannis would cause enough damage to the Bolton forces that they would be willing to accept Littlefinger’s “reinforcements” from the Vale, and let him through Moat Cailin with an army. I’m not sure at this point whether the Boltons will let the Vale armies through or not. The quick and easy defeat of Stannis (as well as the escape of Sansa) may change things, though it’s possible that they already let them through Moat Cailin before getting news of Stannis’s defeat.
Stone Cold Steve Austin casting confirmed!
I agree. I can’t see McShane as the Mad King at all. Unfortunately, I CAN see him as Izembarro, which takes a good chunk out of my pet theory that he is either EB or Meribald. I guess I must expand my horizons–and my tinfoil hat…
I’m soooo excited that we may have our Lyanna!! And yes, folks, she was VERY beautiful and VERY charismatic (one doesn’t need to be blond to be beautiful). Knight of the Laughing Tree!
Is it at all possible that every comments section not become a continuation of the rehashing of the endless Sansa arguments ad nauseum? I’m starting to wish that D&D would kill her off in the hope that it will stop the torture.
YES! This is starting to become obvious, tedious, and bordering on torturous as I scroll the topic and have to wade though Sansa, Sansa, Sansa over and over again, regardless of the actual topic…
Before coming to fansites like this, I saw Sansa as just another one of the more sympathetic and yet frustrating characters, she isn’t perfect and I don’t want her to be. But I didn’t realize how polarizing she was. At first it was interesting how people either see her as a stupid pawn (hate), naive young girl (ambivalent), or the perfect soon to be queen of everything (blind worship) – or somewhere along that spectrum.
Every time I read something that was super-negative – my reaction was ‘that not fair,’ or ‘they are not considering…’ or ‘they are just baiting’
Every time I read something that was over-positive – my reaction was ‘are they serious?’ or ‘they are projecting’ or ‘would they care so much if she wasn’t beautiful?’, or ‘forcing a romantic figure’
But, the more you have to read the same arguments over and over again, and every topic descends in to ‘what about Sansa’ … all the over-analysis, or more like repeated tropes, as the arguments pretty much remain the same… I’m starting to dislike even seeing the character’s name… it is like that song you like on the radio that becomes so popular that it is played over and over so much that you start to hate it.
IF you love Sansa so much you have to inject her into everything, maybe think about it first… there are a lot of interesting characters – and if a topic is started to talk about one of them, maybe don’t always bring up Sansa, or feel the need to defend an obviously bait or troll – you might be doing your favorite a disservice. Sometimes it is best to agree to disagree to an argument that really has no ‘right’ answer.
Very good point! I completly agree.
That’s the best explanation I’ve seen of their characters in a long time, thanks for this, it makes me think…I do believe that Arya romanticizes death, and would love to see her give that up and come back to her family roots. I believe it less of Sansa; the show still loves to put her in situations where she does stupid things or acts naively, despite all the hoo-haa about how her character was Evil Darth Sansa we saw absolutely none of it last season, and she’s still prone to not thinking ahead/not having a strategic or tactical bone in her body despite all that’s happened (can you tell I can’t stand her character lol)…..
Littlefinger can invade the North by sea.
Tywin of the Hill,
He needs a navy for that. The Vale isn’t really known for their strong navy. Even during RR no Vale navy is ever mentioned.
What is RR?
Anyway, It’s been mentioned in the books that the North and the Vale fought for a thousand years for the Three Sisters islands in what became known as “The War Across the Water”, so they do have an important navy, big enough at least to invade the North. The Manderlys and their navy could give them trouble, but apparently neither one is going to appear in the series.
Tywin of the Hill,
Roberts Rebelion. If they had a arge fleet, there would have been a mention of it, taking part in the war.
The sister islands, are close tough. some boats can easly make multiple trips to bring men. Attacking the North would require a huge navy. Something that is not mentioned in neither book or show. You can turn a small marchent fleet into transport ships, but that is not a navy. Only a patched up bunch of ships.
You could get an army North with a little navy, but it would not be big enough to lend enough men to manage to hold their position. For example: the Allies in WW2, they overwhelmed the german positions, at normandy, in 1 go. Now imagine the Allie ships, having to do multiple journey’s across the english channel to bring more man. It would have been a failure.
A safe journey trough Moat Cailin, under the pretext that you are there to help the Boltons, is still the sefest aproach.
How are they going to help the Boltons? Stannis has been defeated and the rebel Northern lords will not announce their intentions publicly. There’s no way Roose’s going to fall for that.
Because some Sansa’s fanboys clearly can’t accept that her character is not what they expected her to be.
The problem is, there are many of us, who liked her storyline in S5. Everyone has right to think about her whatever they want, but the way they are speaking about Sansa’s storyline (idiotic, nonsensical,…) is an offence for every fan of S5.
If you call her storyline idiotic, that clearly means that everyone who likes her is an idiot.
You can dislike something, without calling it idiotic.
When you use such strong words, it means that you are too pasionate, and if you are to pasionate, you are not can’t objectivly analize som€
Tywin of the Hill,
We will know that in 5-6 months.
Roose should start to feel desperate preaty soon, because he lost Sansa.
By the way, this is not the books, no northen lord has faked submission(mandarly), or pretends to help the Boltons(umber, dustin,…etc). You are projecting from the books again.
Now with Sansa gone, they will star rebbeling. More so that unlike the books, the northen lords, or aleast Umber, knows about Rickon. Something they don’t have knowledge about in the books. So a rebbelion supporting Rickon is very lickely.
This makes Roose desperate for help, wich LF will happily ”provide”.
It is not hard if you think, but you have to think without the events in the books, wich may be difficult…..
What I would give for an edit button….
”More so that in the books, and unlike the books, the northen lords…..”
When you use such strong words, it means that you are too passionate, and if you are to passionate, you are not cant objectively analyze something. *
I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that the “young stunner” is Lyanna. Brunette, aged up to 18-20 (with Ned being around 30 at the time) and present in a great scene with a major twist in the end. This is just screaming Tower of Joy! Add the fact that she has already filmed her few scenes in the studio in Belfast (lying in a bed covered with blood and blue roses) and it is a done deal. Super hype about this!
Regarding Arya, I think it would be cool and a really powerful scene if she participates in the theatre play where Ned’s execution is staged, sent there on a mission by the FM. This deja-vu would be such a strong and sad moment for an Arya that is actively trying to escape and forget her old life. Being reminded like this (together with the Meryn Trant thing) could potentially be something that makes her change her mind about becoming no-one or even make her snap that sets her up for the episode with the Waif.
We don’t have to objectively analyze anything. We’re TV viewers, not Wikipedia.
You are projecting from the books as well. You said there’s no mention of the Vale having a large fleet during Robert’s Rebellion (BTW, Baelish could just hire boats from the Free Cities), but that information only comes from the books.
Tywin of the Hill,
I’m not projecting at all. A Vale navy is mentioned in neither the books or the show.
Tywin of the Hill,
Hiring the ships from the free cities, with what money?
Anyway this is where I stop, a invasion by see is a complication for complications sake.
They haven’t mentioned Sothoryos or Ib in the show neither. Does it mean they don’t exist?
LF is probably the richest man in Westeros. Plus, he has the tax money from the Vale, and he can ask for loans.
An invasion by sea isn’t more complicated than the boats-land conundrum after Hardhome.
Tywin of the Hill,
you are comparing a continent, too a fleet….
LF had control of the crown finances, wich we know are non-existant. LF’s control of the Vale depends on, how he can keep the lords on his side, he has succeded for the time being, but ”raising the taxes” wouldn’t make the lords happy.
Ah, I there you are, mentioning a completly different scene, with no relevance, in our current disscusion, just to complain about the show. I expected nothing less from a purist tough.
I will not talk with you anymore, I would appreciate if you would do the same.
Assuming the young stunner is TV Lyanna…I wonder if they cast for a resemblance to Kit Harington’s Jon and/or a resemblance to Maisie Williams’ Arya.
With respect to Arya, granted, there’s been no mention in the show of the whole “Northern look” business or of TV Arya’s supposed resemblance to Lyanna; also, TV Jon, TV Ned, and TV Arya look nothing alike. (The closest thing to the “Northern look” described in the books–long face, dark hair, etc. etc.–is Joseph Mawle’s TV Benjen, who looks nothing like TV Jon, TV Ned, or TV Arya, either.) So there’s no need, strictly speaking, for TV Lyanna to resemble TV Arya. Still, I’m curious as to whether they aimed in casting the “young stunner” for someone who looked like Maisie Williams’ Arya.
As for the resemblance to Jon, the easiest visual shorthand to draw the connection would be to cast a Lyanna with beautiful black, curly hair like Kit’s. Since they were just casting a “brunette,” though, they’re obviously not being so specific. I wonder if the casting people aimed for a facial resemblance to Kit Harington or just cast the most beautiful girl they could find.
The Arya looking like Lyanna is a book clue, just because it conects nicely in the books.
On the show no such thing is ever mentioned, with good reasons. You can easly do that in the books, but if you say that on the show, you tie your hands being forced to find a actor who looks like Masie, thus limiting your options, insteand of just finding a good actor who fits the role.
I think an actress with long dark hair, will do it. And if they plan to prove R+L=J they will just outright show baby jon with his mother (either in 1 flashback, or multiple)
That’s not true though. You are putting words in Sean’s mouth and it is only your susceptibility at being inferred to as an idiot that makes you take offense.
The truth is that an action CAN be referred to as “stupid” or “illogical” or “nonsensical” and the person who’s doing it is bright and smart and intelligent. He just did something that others see as “very foolish”.
Same goes for storylines. A storyline can make little sense to some (myself included when it comes to Petyr Baelish and his plan marry Sansa to Ramsay to which she agreed, no questions asked) when there is an alternative that would make much more sense to us. In this case this comes down to what others call bad writing in someone’s opinion. It doesn’t mean the person who wrote it or the person to whom it makes sense is stupid himself/herself.
That was my first thought as well.
“She has a couple of scenes, and a great final scene where there is a major twist.”
Yes. I imagine that the actress cast will be the most beautiful brunette they can find without any particular resemblance to Kit Harington, and they’ll show her with a dark-haired baby and Ned to make the connection extremely obvious.
I was looking for brunette British actresses in the right age range, but there aren’t that many I could find.
Another similarity between Braavos and Venice.
So, can we expect this character to be in Arya’s storyline?
The show has made a rather big deal of Arya’s list – while she may not shorten her list in the theater, I would bet she will be crossing names off that list soon enough.
I went ahead and started a Sansa debate thread in the forums. It may well be an exercise in futility, but who knows, maybe if those who want to continue to debate her season 5 arc have a specific place for it, it won’t end up popping up in the discussion section of so many different articles. Hell, it’s worth a try.
Here’s the link for anyone and everyone:
Thank you, hopefully the Sansa arc debate will no longer clutter the other news threads.
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