Game of Thrones production in Girona recently completed a stunt-filled sequence involving Arya and the Waif in Girona. MAJORS SPOILERS AHEAD. Potentially massive plot developments lurk after the cut.
WOTW reader, Chantal, provided several photos and clips of the Girona set for which we, at WOTW, are profusely grateful.
Maisie Williams, her stunt double and Faye Marsay recently filmed a scene in which Arya jumps out of a window and escapes into a side alley while the Waif pursues her wielding a bloody knife.
Sources say that neither Maisie Williams nor her stunt double appeared to be wearing contact lenses so it’s safe to assume that this sequence takes place after Arya regains her sight.
You can watch the stunt itself (albeit behind a screen) in the video below and more clips from on set on Chantal Galleana’s YouTube channel.
Other photos offer a closer look at extras and the Braavosi set. More are available at Diari de Girona.
UPDATE: Here’s a few more photos from today, filming on Carrer de Bellmirall, made foggy with smoke machines. It looks like an extension of the same scene, with Arya, and the Waif brandishing knife in the street now.
There are more photos at the blog.
Thanks, Dark Sister, for the find!
Lol! First Hodor!
Assassin’s creed should do a faceless men edition. This season’s gonna be ridiculously good!
Anyone who has The Waif in their Dead Pool might get lucky this season.
Isn’t the Waif wearing Arya’s old clothes? 😮
Huh. So is it safe to assume that things will go wrong for Arya in the House of Black and White and now the Waif/Jaqen wants to kill her? I suppose she couldn’t become “no one”.
What worries me about this plot development is that, unless Arya actually retains her new skills (like changing faces), the whole training in Braavos thing was for naught.
Well this is certainly interesting. Is this just another test/training for Arya or has she really pissed of the Waif so badly that she chases her around Braavos with a knife? Surely she can’t have the whole organization of FM after her, even Arya couldn’t survive that.
So, if I interpret the scene correctly and chronologically, what we’re seeing is that Arya’s running away, jumping around the place, and she knocks some of the merchants’ wares. Then, while the merchants are picking their stuff up, the Waif appears, and calmly —very much like a Terminator— goes down the stairs, and the merchants distance themselves from her as they become aware of the Waif’s presence and that of the bloody knife on her hand.
It’s clearly a scene GRRM would never write… so I think we’re safe from any real book-spoilers in season 6.
You are joking, I hope. Are people really that naïve? I guess that, as April 2016 slowly approaches with no sixth book on sight, some book fans have to convince themselves that Season 6 won’t somehow spoil most if not all of The Winds of Winter. Season six will of course have tons of TWOW spoilers, just as season five did have “spoilers” for AFFC/ADWD/TWOW, despite the many changes.
I’m quite convinced that Arya will end up in a canal during this sequence as of the pics we have of Maisie in the water.
I see what you’re saying, but at the same time I hope you’re wrong, if only because I’d love Arya to have more than a single action scene in the whole season 😉
Also, I’m pretty sure that’s not the case. She’s wearing different clothes.
True, I hadn’t though about this. You’re right.
Seems kinda wierd to me arya leavin the faceless men. She just got there and what has she really learned lol
She has the same pants on. And the top she’s wearing here is the harness for the jump, so it’s still possible they’re the same sequence. Mark Mylod was on site for both shoots IIRC, so I think it fits.
Can any eagle-eyed fan spot the director in any of those many pictures and videos, BTW? If we knew that, we would know when Arya is (apparently) forced out of the Faceless Men organization. If the reports that Arya will arrive to the Riverlands this season are true, knowing when this chase scene takes place would roughly tell us when in the season Arya decides or is forced to leave Braavos and go back to Westeros.
Can anybody tell who the director is?
Of course I’m joking. Are you seven?
Yes, I am.
See? Sarcasm isn’t actually that easy to spot in written form.
Oh, I think I can see Mark Mylod, so it seems Arya may be forced out of the House of Black and White, and perhaps even Braavos, by episode 7 or 8.
There are not lemon trees in Braavos.
I’m OK with her leaving, but I agree there has to be something about her time at HBW that she takes with her that informs her character going forward. Otherwise, that whole season was just to kill Meryn Trant, which sees like a wasted opportunity.
Failing to do something tells us about a character as much as them succeding does. I very much doubt Arya will ever become a true Faceless Man, that she will ever truly become “No one” —Arya may learn assassination techniques and stuff like that (I hope we see more of that in season six), but the fact that she fails the ultimate test is kind of the point, I believe.
I could be wrong (and someone please correct me if so), but I think that may be Mark Mylod in the first and third pictures (the one watching the scene from a crouching position). That would make a certain degree of sense, as he was confirmed to be the director of the previously-reported scene in which Arya jumps in the water. The prevailing assumption was that Arya had regained her sight by that time. If Mylod is indeed the director for both scenes, that would suggests that this scene depicted above takes place either shortly before or shortly after the swimming scene. As Luka Nieto notes, however, she’s wearing different clothes in this during this chase sequence than she is when she jumps into the water, so the scenes are unlikely to be contiguous.
The Waif pursuing Arya with a bloody knife is certainly ominous. While it’s possible that this could be a training exercise, it strikes me a little too publicly disruptive and hostile – a far cry from the way the Faceless Men usually like to operate. It seems more likely that Arya plays Jaqen and the Waif’s game for the first half of the season and eventually appeases them enough to win back her sight. However, she ultimately does something in the latter half of the season that leads to significant conflict between her and the Order, and potentially a permanent break.
Overall, there have been enough leaks from Arya’s storyline to start forming a basic, evidence-based outline of her arc in Season 6. The one thing that I’m having trouble reconciling with these leaks, however, is the source that claims that Arya will be returning to the Riverlands this year. I trust Sue’s sources, but Mylod is directing Episodes 7 and 8, and it certainly seems like Arya is still in Braavos at that point. We also know that she is still blind and in Braavos as of Episodes 3 and 4, so she certainly doesn’t travel to Westeros and then return. That would mean she wouldn’t return to Westeros until Episode 9 or 10, and would allot no time for off-screen travel (not impossible, but not likely).
I guess there’s no way to know until we get more information about where and when Maisie is filming after Girona (I suppose it’s also possible that Arya’s scenes in the Riverlands are dream/vision-based, in which case, the timeline becomes far more fluid).
Isn’t it Mark Mylod Faye’s hugging at the beginning of this video: https://youtu.be/hQpc4gaqX6A ?
But.. but.. that’s what the books tell us! ! ! ! *shakes fist furiously*.. #dorne
“A character failing to do something tells us as much about them as if they succeed.” That sentence makes more sense now.
I wish we could edit the posts… We’ll have to be patient 😉
How can it spoil “most if not all of The Winds of Winter” if half the characters that will appear in The Winds of Winter are not part of the adaptation or are already dead in the adaptation? No one is denying it will spoil some (not all) of the plot lines for several major POV characters, but to say it will spoil “most if not all of…” it is hyperbole.
There’s plenty of time. If this happens in episode 7, she could take an episode off to arrive to Westeros and that would be plenty. Then she would have the last two episodes to do whatever it is she’s doing in the Riverlands this season.
Why are we assuming that Arya returning to the Riverlands wouldn’t be on a Faceless Man mission?
I can see your point, but it would still be a waste. Kinda.
Wishful thinking, perhaps, but to end Arya’s arc for the season with a shot of Arya and Nymeria finding each other, or, hell, even Arya obviously having a wolf dream ala Bran in earlier seasons (of which we’ve maybe already gotten a hint while she’s still in Braavos), I would be beside myself with excitement!
Sword of the Morning,
Because in the video she’s being chased down by a Faceless Woman with a bloody knife? Also, does anyone actually believe Arya will become a true servant of the Many-Faced God and do the biding of the Faceless Men? I’d be very surprised if she doesn’t go back to “Stark revenge mode” after the “blind girl” business. Maybe she does so in such a drastic way that the Waif attempts to kill her because of it, and Arya is forced out of Braavos. But that last part is purely speculation, of course.
Perhaps Arya finally decides to start killing off her targets… maybe she steals one of/some of the faces from the HBW, but the Waif catches her & chases her out. Arya escapes in the canal and then stows away on a ship to Westeros, where she then heads for the Riverlands. #yourewelcome
Begs the question: Who’s blood is that on the knife? There doesn’t seem to be any red make up on Maisie or the Waif…
Arya’s double is quite beautiful, isn’t she?
I have a bad feeling for Jaqen H’Gar. Since there are only the Waif and him in the House of Black and White and the Waif has a bloody knife …
Hmm. So my question is – whose blood is on that knife?
It seems out of character for a FM to be so obvious in a public market. Did the Waif’s brain finally break with Arya? I don’t buy Jaqen wanting her dead.
Didn’t you learn anything in the season finale? 😛
There is no “Jaqen” 😛
It seems like Arya’s return to Westeros is likely to be more in the manner of a teaser for the following year, than a real story in its own right.
Yep. That’s him. Which I assume confirms this to be 507, along with the Arya-swimming sequence.
Yes that’s Mark Mylod. So this is either 6×07 or 6×08.
So far Maisie has been the only recurring cast member photographed filming. They seem to be secretive about other sets but not hers.
They’re filming in a public space. There’s not much they can do to keep people out.
My guess would’ve been Jaqen (maybe the Waif is a traitor?), or they were sent out on a mission together and Arya backs out and stops it before it can be carried out, only to be hunted herself.
That’s been my thought too. She can’t put aside her true self. She’s a Stark, and she’s got to reunite with her family. That’s what I see for her character’s future, that and she’s going to learn how to warg too. I believe she’s going to ride one of the dragons, when the battle with the Others goes down.
A side-effect of her sets being in populated streets, I’m sure. Whoever is riding that horse surrounded by 500 extras, we’ll also know who it is. Other storylines are filmed in the Belfast sets and in barely populated areas that can be more easily controlled.
I keep imagining a Matrix like scene where there are many people, Arya “walks” around and one of them, someone with bloody knife, probably butcher or something like that transforms into waif.
Yes, it’s been a while since I read the HOBAW chapters in the books, but I don’t recall the Waif having it in for Arya the way she seems to on the show. On the show, I get the feeling the Waif really resents and despises Arya, and I don’t remember feeling that way when I was reading.
Fair enough. If Arya boards a ship and leaves Braavos by Episode 7 or 8, she could definitely arrive in the Riverlands by the end of the season. The question becomes whether or not she’ll actually be doing anything with major plot significance in the Riverlands this year once she returns, and if so how much time she’ll have to do it. If she’s only going to return to Westeros as her season-ending coda before embarking on a new storyline in Season 7, time shouldn’t be issue at all. If she were going to, say, travel to the Twins and attempt to assassinate Walder Frey, that would require another episode or two at least.
A MAN IS PLEASED!!!
ARYA LOOKS LIKE SHE GOT A FUN STORYLINE
watching all the footage and pictures (I am Chantal 🙂 ) it appears that Mark Mylod was indeed the director. He is a little chubby in comparison to last year but I’m pretty sure he is the one hugging Faye and reading the scene with her. I uploaded another video with the best pictures from the scene, zoomed , and in some of them you can see him closer. (sorry for my english)
Arya could be using the waifs face for a mission. Or it could be a nightmare.
How intriguing. I wonder what’s driven the Waif to this. It seems like the HOBAW crew is on an outing seeing how they’ve changed their clothes. Personally, I prefer a slow buildup and foreshadowing to Arya’s departure from the FM rather than have her hop on LF’s jet plane to arrive in the Riverlands. Perhaps the s6 finale will hark back to the s4 finale. I would love that.
Pictures from todays filming
Are we sure the Waif is chasing Arya and not just lagging behind her in an escape together? We won’t know for sure until it airs I guess.
Ah, I’d been anticipating the pictures you said you had, but then saw the ones in this post and thought, well, I’m guessing, though I appreciate the effort, they can’t be much better than these…but they’re yours!
Thank you, again!!! 🙂
On a side note: I would love to see Cedric Henderson (the actor who was the FM who “greeted” Arya at the doors of the HOBAW), again. He had such a fascinating face!
Some props were labelled “chase scene girona.” So it is a chase scene, and it looks tro me like Arya is escaping from the Waif.
I love the little touch that
maybe I’m wrong but I have this crazy idea that Maisie is going to Island to shoot some flashback scene to show us what appened with the Hound. Something like: we see Arya going away while he rise or crawl or something like that. We’ll know better when the director for Island will be known.
Hmmm…with the information in the update, that may give us a clue why Arya leaves Braavos. What if she and the Waif get in a knife fight, and Arya kills the Waif? I could see her deciding to retrieve Needle and get on the first ship out of there she can find.
I assume it’s due to jealousy in one form or another – Jaqen basically asked Arya to come to HBW if she was in trouble, and I doubt too many people get invites. Waif may have been the star pupil until that point.
I don’t think Jaqen has any illusions that Arya will ever be a true FM, knowing her history and her nature. He is seemingly all-knowing…so the background there would be amazing to find out. What’s his true plan?
I may have mildly freaked out when Jaqen ‘died’ last season, but honestly, would we ever truly know if anyone there truly dies?
It would be a a relatively good way to make his return make sense in a short period of screen time, but unless they filmed it at the time of his last episode, I’m not sure they’re going to be too likely to put in another flashback scene.
I hope not. “The DaVinci Code” did stuff like that where they did quick flashbacks to show you what *really* happened out of your view, and it played cheesy there, too. Frankly, it doesn’t really sound like D&D’s m.o. for the show. They’ve bent a bit here and there with flashbacks (and the slo-mo in Ygritte’s death scene), but, otherwise, they’ve played it pretty straight.
Assassin Creed Arya at it again!
So awesome, she’s going to own next season!
I certainly recall the Waif saying to Arya she had been given a coin she did not deserve. That’s stuck with me not only because of the vitriol with which she said it, but because by virtue of saying it, she was questioning “Jaqen’s” judgement, which it doesn’t seem her place to do.
If the Waif is doing it on the behalf of the HOBW, is this the way they would go about it? Seems a bit too public and sloppy. But maybe they would want to make a point? I dunno. Could just be a personal thing.
If Arya is to leave Bravos in episode 7 or 8 that will be just shy of 2 complete seasons with the HBW so I would disagree that she hasn’t learned much or its been a wasted trip. She has learned to alter her past so believably that nobody can tell. She learned the secrets of changing her face. She has become a master of sweeping floors and she will learn more FM skills this season of course.
When I read the books I always though Arya would fail to become “no one”. I think hiding Needle sorta’ foreshadowed that. It seemed as though all Arya would take away from tHoBaW was a few more assassin skills and the discovery that she could warg into cats (and eventually more). I do wonder how much the KM knows of her warging skills and what kind of larger scheme he’s involved in.
I wouldn’t think what the Waif is doing (if she’s doing what it seems to me she’s doing, at best attacking Arya in public, at worst trying to kill her) is at the behest of the HOBAW.
It was also obvious from the beginning of Arys’s training that she wouldn’t be able to completely she’d her Starkiness to become “no one”. I look forward to whatever draws her back to Westeros more than her time training with the FM even though it has added cool elements to her character
It’s interesting that it’s Mark Mylod, means Arya is still in Braavos by episode 7 and /or 8.
I dunno if Arya’s gonna be leaving the Faceless Men without some skills…her arrival there was foreshadowed as early as season 2’s finale, and I don’t think the writers would go out of their way to do this whole plot if she wasn’t gonna kick some ass with FM magicks.
If it was just a way to get her out of Westeros for a while and give her something to do until she’s “needed” again (like S3’s somewhat incessant Theon torture scenes), well, that’s a little boring. Just IMO.
Pardon, but I’ve been away. Apparently there has been some fanwank by some wanker in my absence. Some tit who has a problem with caps lock or something but loves to quote Vox Day to underscore their rage. Any help or links will be appreciated.
Hmm… these photos seem to me like Arya has a definite break with the FM and somehow manages to get back to Westeros and the Riverlands. I read a lot of theorizing on boards that Arya would become a FM and go on missions for them. I don’t think that’s true, based on this scene. But whose blood is on the knife? Did Arya, after regaining her sight, see someone else on her “list”, kill that person, and then The Waif came upon that scene? Since Tom W. is also filming in Season 6, what about Jaqen? So mysterious.
I’m not sure about caps lock and quoting Vox Day, but there was a lot of talk about that which gets wanked on the Dickon thread. 🙂
Speaking of that which gets wanked, this is in honor of our friend Rygar (and this thread seems like a good one for it). My profound apologies to anyone who gets this stuck in their head, like I did. I will at least say it cracks me up when it pops into my head.
From watching that video, it doesn’t seem at all that the Waif is running from someone. She’s slowly after Arya in a Michael Myers sorta way.
This seems crazily out of character for a FM, to be seen in a public place visibly carrying a weapon, pursuing someone with apparent intent to kill! And in the Waif’s own FM face: Her cover is blown – over anger or jealousy of Arya? How unprofessional is that? If they wanted to kill Arya, they would take as long as is necessary to stalk her anywhere she goes and catch her off-guard with no witnesses. There has to be some other explanation for this game of bloody parkour.
Arya rushing to get picked up by Gendry?
And because of that dynamic, I think this scene is deeper than what we’re seeing here. What if Arya isn’t the one who fails? What if she interrupted the Waif doing something she wasn’t supposed to be doing? Or if the Waif attacked Jaqen? If they are wearing other faces, then we wouldn’t know that until the effects people have edited the footage.
Sorry, was trying to quote these posts:
Nymeria Warrior Queen “Yes, it’s been a while since I read the HOBAW chapters in the books, but I don’t recall the Waif having it in for Arya the way she seems to on the show. On the show, I get the feeling the Waif really resents and despises Arya, and I don’t remember feeling that way when I was reading.” “I certainly recall the Waif saying to Arya she had been given a coin she did not deserve. That’s stuck with me not only because of the vitriol with which she said it, but because by virtue of saying it, she was questioning “Jaqen’s” judgement, which it doesn’t seem her place to do.”
Maybe the Faceless Men disapprove of Jon Snow’s resurrection, and send Arya to kill him again. She refuses, and… things lead to this.
I would guess this all happens because the Faceless Men aren’t too happy with her murderlizing Trant.
I agree. Imaging reading the first three books and watching the first five seasons, and then trying to guess the contents of AFFC and ADWD. How well would you do?
Cersei? Reasonably close, if over-simplified
Jon? Ditto, except you’d be way off about Hardhome
Dany? The right ending but not much else is the same
Tyrion? Right destination, pretty much everything else different except for the slavers
Stannis? Quite a ways off, how far depends on TWOW
Sansa? Way off
Brienne? Way off
Jaime? Way off
Dorne? Way off
Ironborn? Who are they?
Bran? Where’d he get off to?
If S6 has the same fidelity to TWOW as S5 did to AFFC/ADWD, it will be 30% accurate, 40% filler, and 30% red herrings. We will get plenty of spoilers, but except for the big plot points at season’s end, it will be really hard to separate wheat from chaff.
I find it surprising that folks here are so confident about what’s in store for these characters based on some set shots (a knife-wielding Waif chasing Arya through the streets), rumors (Arya in the Riverlands), and what’s been published in the books.
Because I read the books and kept up with the rumor mill, but the show has consistently surprised me:
* That Stannis would burn Shireen.
* That Stannis would die outside Winterfell.
* That Brienne would dispatch him.
* That the Night’s King is alive right now.
* That Sansa would return to Winterfell (okay, there *were* rumors about this).
* That Ellaria would kill Myrcella.
* That Tyrion would end up in charge of Meereen.
Now that we’re in unpublished territory, I submit that the obvious interpretation of set photos will almost always be wrong.
Where do you see anyone acting confident about how to interpret this scene? All I am reading is a whole lot of baffled speculation. Seeing an FM character behaving (by all appearances, based on what we know of their usual methods) out of character for an FM creates cognitive dissonance, which we try to resolve by puzzling it out. Enough guesses and sooner or later someone will likely come up with the explanation that eventually turns out to be true. And that person gets to take home the Internet.
The fun thing is, the way the FM work, this scene could actually be Arya (in the Waif’s face) chasing the Waif (in Arya’s face), no?
That’s no GoT scene, that’s just the two actresses having a posh British schoolgirl fight!
Haha, if that hilarious “C#$T!”scene between the two from last season is anything to go by this should be good
Sansa? Way off
We will see in TWOW, but she was part of Theon’s plot and that was almost the same.
For now. She can return to Riverlands in S6.
He will be in the Riverlands in S6.
Not at all.
So, after 5 books and 6 seasons story will be almost the same, except YG.
Don’t bother with them Mau, they will never understand (or they don’t want too).
Then TWOW (If it ever does) comes out, and they will see, that while the road was different, the outcome will be the same.
Of course, they will still argue it’s different. I’m glad tough that this purists barely make 10-15% of the fandom.
Given the way the FM’s faces work in the series, I’ve been wondering whether Arya – or at least Arya’s face – could appear in two places at once – for example, on an FM mission in one part of Westeros, and on a private quest for vengeance in another.
The fight might be posh, but the schoolgirls aren’t – Maisie appears to use, pretty much, her own West Country accent for Arya, while Faye Marsay’s real north-eastern accent is very different than that she uses as The Waif:
(The film she’s talking about here, Pride, is well worth watching.)
I think that Arya’s blindness (like in the books) will enhance her warging/wolf dreams and that she will either link with Bran directly or see Sansa/Rickon/Jon through Nymeria. This will be the catalyst that brings Arya back to Westeros and these are part of Arya’s escape scenes (along with the shooting of her in the water). The Waif/bloody knife is a mystery though- it’s clearly not Arya’s blood, so who has the Waif attacked? I presume it’s an attack that Arya has foiled for whatever reason and is linked with her need to return to Westeros.
Taking face-changing into account – who the hell knows what might be going on here?
We’re going to have a great new game to play come next April – rating the likelihood of almost every S6 scene being in the books or not.
I’m interested to hear this, because to my very untrained ear (I’m Australian), Maisie’s accent is simply Standard English, and I’ve taken her as symptomatic of the decline of regional English accents generally. With that said, a West Country accent would probably have to sound like this before I’d be able to recognise it as such:
I wonder how the theatre company will fit in with Arya’s story. That is to say if they are part of her plot. Will she join them and travel with them to Westeros?
It’s a fair point – I’m an NZ’er, born in the UK, and to my ear Maisie’s accent sounds quite different from Sophie Turner’s, which strikes me as more of an upper-middle-class southern English accent (maybe RP modified by a bit of estuary Essex, but I am no linguist!).
That said, though, Maisie is from Bristol (I think) rather than deepest rural Somerset, and she does sound more like Sophie than she sounds like The Wurzels, who just may have been hamming up their West Country sound a bit in that video…
Here is an interesting article about accent inconsistencies among family members in GOT: http://gawker.com/what-is-going-on-with-the-accents-in-game-of-thrones-485816507
It has always puzzled me that none of the Wildlings (as far as I can remember) speak with Scottish accents. Rose Leslie is a Scot, yet her accent is Ygritte strikes me as a curious hybrid of north-eastern English accents – Faye Marsay would pronounce “Jon Snuuh” in her own accent much as Ygritte does.
None of which detracts from my enjoyment of Game of Thrones.
In the books the waif has been a benign character only acting as a teacher language at first and poisons later.
One thing , one the page both she and the KM wear the ‘formal’ black and white robes of the FM tho not clear if each of them do this all the time. The waif appears to be a fully vested FM (in this case a Faceless Person, probably should have called them The Faceless).
Of course we are used to the show’s severe deviations, so not sure what is going on.
You know, on the page, the waif never referrers to herself as The Waif , nor does the Kindly Man call her The Waif. I guess we will never know her real name.
Indeed, maybe it’s Arya with the knife and the Waif’s face, hunting the Waif, with Arya’s face on!!!! My face is melting!
Looks like a handrail on a wall with blood in it. Somebody died or was injured in an alleway and based on the pictures it’s not arya or the waif. Pic was posted before news about waif with a bloody knife, so i don’t think it’s a troll attempt.
John Travolta vs. Nicholas Cage type of face off?
I don’t suppose there’s any chance HBO will release four episodes early to members of the media again?
Thank you, that’s exactly what I was thinking! Maybe they went on a mission together and some guards are chasing them both… People jump to conclusions too easily.
Theres more ppl in the HOBAW than just those two, and even if a man gets stabbed, we’ll u saw what happened to him when he drank the poison. So don’t get too concerned
If the Waif was being chased, she’d be running.
So if the same butt winds up on the Iron Throne at the end of S8E10 and ADOS (and it will), then because the outcome is the same it really doesn’t matter how much of the rest is the same, different, good, or bad? Why don’t you just save your time and money by reading the summary on Wikipedia or something a few years from now? It will have the same outcome as well, so what’s the difference?
A story is not just the ending and perhaps a few key waypoints along the Plotline Road. It is what happens to the characters, who they are, and how they interact with one another. Season 5, to an extent much greater than S1-S4, radically changed the former and the latter in many cases, and even the most important elements – the characters and the fundamental choices they make – in some cases. Stannis and Jon in particular, but also Tyrion, Loras and the Sand Snakes all either faced or made character-defining choices this season that are unparalleled, implausible, or out of character in the books, or conversely skipped important decisions their book analogues made. To the extent this happens, they are no longer even the same character.
But back to my original point. If you watched S1-4 and read the first three books, then made a first set of AFFC/ADWD predictions, then watched S5, and then made a second set of AFFC/ADWD predictions, how much would have your predictions improved? For Cersei and Arya, pretty substantially. For Dany, Jon, Bran, and Tyrion, somewhat. For many of the others, one’s predictions would actually get worse, not better! So while we are going to “spoiled”, we are also going to get a bunch of non-book filler and a bunch of false leads, which we won’t be able to sort out until TWOW is released. For the most part, the most trustworthy elements of S6 will be major events of the last three episodes, any major character deaths before that. Anything else has only limited chances of being taken from the books.
Undead Ice Kraken,
Were u going for the gandalf look in your pic, because u nailed it
Why are you being so rude and disrespectful towards anyone who has the slightest criticism of season 5? It was quite different from the books, but the person who listed the differences didn’t say that they were bad changes.
Regardless of what anyone says, the show really changed a lot of character arcs last season, especially Sansa and Theon. It was probably the weakest season, but even though I admit I didn’t love last season, I still think the show is awesome. I love the books and the show.
Geez, if anyone makes even one criticism of the show on this site everyone starts attacking them personally, I’ve never encountered this on any other site. I am someone who loves the books and the show, but when I read the comments with all the personal attacks toward those who have some issues with the show, it makes me feel scared to comment about certain things I didn’t love about the show.
Do you realize how much these comments alienate the book-readers? Many people enjoy the books and the show. I am one of them, but season 5 had a few issues for me.
Except in courtyards of wealthy people. The red door is likely in the Sealord Palace, where the marriage pact for Viserys was signed.
But the red door is like Dany’Silver: dear to her and important in her character development arc, and totally overlooked this n the show.
I have a lot to criticize about season 5: Dorne writing as I’m the only one who liked the fight; the writing of the Winterfell arc (although I think it may have been fine with a few adjustments); Stannis downfall too rushed (I like every story-beat of it) and the Tyrells dropping out of the picture at the end of the third season in a row.
That said, I think it’s delusional that the show won’t include any (or only small) spoilers for TWOW in season 6. Even with all the adjustment we have had most major scenes (not involving YG or LS) from ADWD/AFFC in season that would be spoiled for anyone who hasn’t read the the books prior to the season.
Denial is the first stage of grief. (not directed at you)
S6 will include some big spoilers, but mostly at the “waypoint” big moments at the end of the season. There’s not much of a logical path from, say, Theon being at the Kingsmoot or the Waif chasing Arya with a bloody knife to anything their book analogues might do. On the other hand, major character deaths (#1 on my list is Littlefinger, at the hands/command of Sansa) are probably canon. However, these tend to be clustered in E8-E10. Other things like
will also likely appear at the end, probably in a different manner than the books. Is this really a spoiler at this point, or is it more a confirmation such as Valyrian Steel vs White Walkers? Another type of thing that I would trust as likely canon are major military actions
but again we are closer to confirmation rather than spoilers in most cases.
just want to let everybody know that these photos were first posted on the subreddit r/Freefolk by the user https://www.reddit.com/user/darksianna, here is the post.
So you agree that S6 will spoil a lot of the most important points of TWOW, although you disagree that it will spoil as much as ‘most if not all’ of it. That’s, I think, a cool, reasonable, conservative and middle-of-the-road point of view. Why has the discussion taken so long, again?
(Personally, I’m not even planning to read the next book – I’m not that invested in the books. Maybe a Wikipedia summary.)
Yeah, she posts *here* as darksianna too.
Chantal is darksianna. These are her photos.
Thank you. It’s neat to hear her real accent.
Fully agreed. As someone who feels the same about S5 as you, it’s really annoying. ><
Can’t u just make one post without criticising fellow commenters?? It’s really tiring.
What exactly did Chad said.that bothered you so much? He was actually right, after season 5 you would never guess a lot of AFFC a ADWD.
The last season will spoil the ending of the books though…but why are you happy about that?? Why is that good in any scenario?? To get back at the “annoying book purists”??? (because all readers are alike, obviously…)
Wow, you guys are really nice people aren’t you?? Hope that you enjoy your petty revenge at this evil Book Purist sect of yours!! :-O
Chad Brick: So if the same butt winds up on the Iron Throne at the end of S8E10 and ADOS (and it will), then because the outcome is the same it really doesn’t matter how much of the rest is the same, different, good, or bad?
Every big event in this story had some important differences between the show and the books, except Ned’s death.
So, you would say that s3 won’t spoil you the RW?
Why? What do you think? Why D&D decided to be less faithful to AFFC and ADWD?
In every season you had things that characters had done, that their book versions will never do.
Do you understand that adaptation of AFFc and ADWD is not over?
What this even means? If you watch S3 only scene that was from the books in KL was Tyrion’s and Sansa’s wedding and even that had important differences.
Everything else in KL in S3 was show original material. By your standards.
After S3 you would never guess a lot of ASOS.
After s6 only YG will be cut from the show. Eveything else will be there with some differences.
We still don’t know how Sansa’s plot will look like in TWOW, but she will be in the North at some point for sure.
Great Pictures. Let’s agree the story line for Arya in S6 will be interesting.
Hear, hear. I wonder if people who are primarily show-watchers simply don’t get it that, for people who are “readers first,” seeing something that somebody else put up onscreen, instead of being able to put it up there inside your head based on a book, can be somewhat frustrating or unsatisfying because it is such a passive form of entertainment, comparatively speaking. Reading is by its very nature way more interactive and challenging to the imagination, and thus for some of us more engaging, stimulating and enjoyable.
There are verbal thinkers and there are visual thinkers. We have different learning styles and different tastes in entertainment. It’s how our brains are wired. Doesn’t make one group bad or stupid or the other good or smarter. I don’t understand why there needs to be this antagonism – the sarcasm and ad hominem put-downs that regularly break out on WotW.
For the most part, books-first people aren’t really being “negative” or “complainers” when we criticize the show, though it may appear that way to those who like the show better. We’re being analytical, which makes the whole process more interactive and therefore interesting to us (especially in the off-season). It gives us something to do besides just sit and watch and be reactive, experiencing sweaty palms or an elevated pulse rate at the points in the show that are calculated to make us do just that.
Questioning the showrunners’ writing or judgment in terms of what they keep in, take out or add to the story does not mean that we think them hacks or that the TV show is awful. We each have parts of the original story that we cherish and are sad to see disappear, and they are not the same for all of us (I seem to be one of very few who were totally intrigued by Tyrion’s mysterious boating companions, for example). There are changes that we think are improvements (or at least tolerable alternative retellings) and others that we dislike, and we will say so. But I think that I can speak for most books-first folks when I say that we still really appreciate the great acting, the fantastic art direction, the fabulous settings that we get to see onscreen.
As K Noelle said, it is entirely possible to enjoy both manifestations of GRRM’s brilliant alternate universe – in different ways – but still be picky about exactly how it makes it onto the screen and disappointed when it doesn’t live up to the movie in our heads (and pleasantly surprised when it surpasses that internal conception). So can we all back off a little on the polarizing comments, please?
So much for respecting other people’s opinions…
That you think Show!Dorne and Book!Dorne were not wildly different shows a very disturbing understanding of the events that occured in the books. Did you even read the books?
Book purists are turds,just wanted to day that . And this site has clearly has been floored with peop;e like them which is way i barely even bother to read the comments made from people like Chad Turd or other flock of his kind , Enjoy being bitter and miserable that the show is better than the books and the books will never be finished,adios !
“So much for respecting other people’s opinions…”
They weren’t wildly different. Plot structure was the same.
Step 1 – Revenge proposal
Step 2 – Doran’s refusal
Step 3 – making a plan about Myrcella
Step 4 – plan fails
Step 5 – Doran reveals his plans
Step 6 – member of the Kingsguard meets with Doran and they talk about Myrcella
Step 7 – Myrcella dies
Part 5 has not yet occurred in thw show, and step 7 in the books.
Why wouldn’t she retain her new skills? My bet is that where they are going with this is that Arya will gain many of these skills but still remain Arya Stark. I would not be surprised if, in the end, warging plays a part in this.
In his original outline, GRRM
As such, the House of Black and White might be Arya’s “tree.”
You should know a difference between a book reader and a book purist.
The big difference is that they kept the basic plot structure while centering it around a completely different protagonist. And that in itself is a huge difference: there is no way that Arianne is going to be relevant to the climax of the series, whereas Jaime could play a fairly important role, directly or (as I am betting) indirectly.
Indeed, a big reason why I never made up my mind about Dorne on the show is because I know that a big reason it seemed “good” to me was that it excluded Arianne. However, the vast majority of viewers are not judging it that way: so, trying to see it as a typical viewer would is tough! (Especially because I then start thinking: “Well, Arianneless Dorne is a lot better than the Iron Islands or the Riverlands, which I am sure that everyone… whoops…..”)
What i find really funny is that these fuckers cleary have no life spending 24/7 of their time on this site clsiming how horrible the show is and how much better the books are,ok then what are you doing here,i hated True Bore and i hate The Walking Shit but you don’t see me seeking attention on their fansites and trying to start pointless flame wars,it’s just a boring life . Also that guy who said th
What i find really funny is that these fuckers cleary have no life spending 24/7 of their time on this site clsiming how horrible the show is and how much better the books are,ok then what are you doing here,i hated True Bore and i hate The Walking Shit but you don’t see me seeking attention on their fansites and trying to start pointless flame wars,it’s just a boring life . Also that guy who said that said that he’s never seen such hateful comments made towards show watchers,has this moron ever read westeros.org or that Linda’s blog aka Ms.”shitstain fingers” ?
Arianne/Ellaria(SS) make a plan, it fails misarably.
If he saw Dorne more or less the same, why does that mean he has a, ”a very disturbing understanding”, or that he did not understand the story in the books. Why must the only way to see this story be your way (book readers).
Why, if I liked Dorne in the show more (or anyother storyline, for that metter), mean I didn’t ”understand” the story in the books? Answer me this please. Why if I liked it, means I didn’t understand the books. And I read the books 3 times.
If I say I like Tyrion, Sansa, Jaime’s….etc. story in the show, people will say, that I didn’t understand the story in the books or can’t read. You can’t like the show here anymore, there will be 5-7 making fun of you. Opinions are good, criticism is good, but that is how it all started at Westeros, in the end it turned into a rage fest.
This place was a good place to talk with people who liked the show, now it’s a circle-jerk between 7-10 people. Every thread turns into how bad Dorne was, how they butchered Sansa’s character…etc
It was good while it lasted, I guess…
Oh fuck me,this site really needs the edit button back .
You are the most accomplished 7 year old since Mozart, then! (Or do you have an opera in Spanish and English already? If so, then I would love to hear it!)
And, yeah: the hope that we would see Winter before we see Season 6 has to be fading as fast as the hopes of most US Baseball teams this time of the year. (Their season is about to end.) Wasn’t Hodor’s Bastard joking that GRRM would just use this season as a first draft and revise accordingly? 😀
Hmmm…. on the 10th picture down (I think 4th from the bottom), my advice to Arya is: speak the Valyrian word for “Friend.”
Well, yes, that was the main difference.
Ellaria – Arianne
Jaime – Balon Swann
Bronn and Tyene – Arys Oakheart and Arianne
There are very few, at least what I would deem, “book purists” on this site. Yes, there are those who wish the show hadn’t diverged from the books as much as it has, at least in one story line, or another, but not many who out and out attack D&D (they may really dislike some of their choices, but there are only a few who just summarily attack them), which is how I define “purist.” I may disagree with some of the criticisms of season 5, but not all of them, and I tend to focus more on what I liked, as opposed to what I don’t like, but that’s just me.
I don’t think anyone should hesitate to state their opinion, whether it’s praise or criticism. Just because someone didn’t like one (or a few) aspect does not make them a book-purist. I think most of the people here are middle-of-the-road. They love both the books and the show, and think both have their strengths and weaknesses.
I don’t think that book purist is so strong here, but I agree, they are wasting years of their lives for something they hate. And even re-watch the show they hate! I don’t know what to say, except they should visit a doctor.
I wasted years of my time here on something I LOVE. Yes, I become a hardcore fan and I don’t think that was particularly wise, but I’m filled with positive energy, I love this show, I love the actors, I love D&D, I love every part of this massive project.
I know why I’m here.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Yes, this site has the best atmosphere.
book purist are*
I would take it a step further and venture to say that ‘book purist’ is a straw man, a chimera, a bogeyman – a bit like such right-wing talk show constructs as ‘the Liberal Media’ and ‘feminazis’ and ‘welfare queens.’ Granted, I don’t hang out at Westeros.org except when I want to check out the rationale behind a particular tinfoil theory, but I can’t recall encountering anybody who claims that the books are perfect and the show is utterly worthless (with perhaps one exception on this site who appears to be a troll).
You can read tumblr or Reddit ASOIAF.
Believe me, we can see a difference between a normal person and a book purist.
That’s part of the issue with label. You’re right, there are very few who abhor every single aspect of the show since day 1. However, there are some (and they tend to congregate on westeros) who are so anti-D&D, most of their time is spent spewing pure vitriol. I used to read over there for laughs, but it got so ugly, it’s rare I do, anymore. The last time I was there, with a few exceptions, the only people who were not bashing, and I don’t mean criticizing, but bashing the show, many of the actors, the casting, the show-runners, were those with a very low post count. Just take a look at the thread about the Emmy nominations. You’ll see people literally enraged over many of the nominations. It’s what happens when one of the people who runs the site literally wishes misfortune upon the show-runners and saying “they deserve to burn.”
Plot structure isn’t everything. What actually happens is important. And what happened in Dorne is wildly different between the two mediums. Even if the basic structure was the similar. To claim otherwise is insane.
And you’re jumping the gun with there with Myrcella’s death.
Do you enjoy putting words in other people’s mouth? When did I say that enjoying Show!Dorne means that you don’t understand what happened in the books? Claiming that both versions were not wildly different shows a lack of understanding of either version, or a troll attempt. Liking one over the other is normal human nature.
Enjoy whichever you want. Discuss what you enjoy if you want. But do keep in mind that YOU are one of the first people that immediately attack anybody that shows the least bit of criticism for the show.
Arya kills Walder Frey in the last episode of the season. It is known…
Eh, this is not true. I have not heard a single person on here making fun of another person because he liked someone’s storyline in the show. There are really, REALLY few book purists on here and the ones that are here aren’t really active anyway. There is a difference between starting a discussion because you disagree and make fun of someone and/or troll.
This place was a good place to talk with people who liked the show, now it’s a circle-jerk between 7-10 people. Every thread turns into how bad Dorne was, how they butchered Sansa’s character…etc
Again, not true. Of course the conversation diverges to this kind of subjects now and then, but you’re seriously exaggerating.
Whoops, the first part of the last part of my quote (still getting it? 🙂 ) was supposed to be a quote (‘This place (…) Sansa’s character etc’).
I want the edit button back 🙁
*my quote=my post dayumn.
I think we’re all looking forward to the day the edit button returns, and I’ve no doubt the powers that be are working to achieve just that, in addition to getting the spoiler code to work, again.
I’m having fits rereading my posts and seeing all my mistakes, without being able to correct them. Yes, I should proof-read them before I hit post, but what can I say…I got spoiled by the edit button. 🙂
Myrcella will die in the books. We know that from the prophecy.
Plot structure isn’t everything, but I was responding to a person who said that Dorne in the show was completely different from the books.
And it wasn’t. It has the same plot with different characters
A real broom’s gonna come one of these days. It’s gonna brush all the scum out of Westeros.
I hope not just for more FM skills but also warging. There seems fairly little narrative point in so clearly setting up the theme of blindness unless D&D do something with it.
Well no, he said it was “way off”. I guess you interpreted that as “completely different”.
As for Myrcella, prophecies have multiple interpretations.
Ah the lack of edit feature…
And maybe he meant “completely different”. But that would be an assumption on our part. You know what they say about assumptions.
Go read the chapter summaries for the first ten or so Sansa and Tyrion chapters in ASOS, which more or less covers S3. Outside of the combination of Wylas and Loras and general simplication or elimination of minor characters, it is essentially the same. There is nothing remotely like Jaime running off to Dorne, Kingslayer Brienne, Suicidally Depressed Stannis, or Sansa’s rape.
As for AFFC/ADWD not being over, we are getting some form of a Kingsmoot, as well as some leftovers from Arya’s juxtaposed chapters. YG and LSH are not impossible, but the latter in particular is unlikely. Jaime is likely heading to the Riverlands in S6, but he’s not going to do what he did in S4…and if LSH cut, his early TWOW content is cut too.
Everyone dies in the end. What matters is how, why, by whose hand, and the downstream consequences. Myrcella will die in the books, but how and when is an entirely open question. In any case, her part in the Dorne story is very small anyway.
Well yes. Many die of old age or disease.
But a death in the show does not guaranteed a death in the books. Martin himself said very recently in Bubonicon (and later confirmed in his NotABlog) that there are some characters that died in the show that will surive in the books.
Well, Arya is probably destined to butt heads with a few dwarves (one in particular) sooner or later. Might as well continue her training in Moria. She should watch out for that pesky Balrog though.
I’ve theorized why the Waif is out for blood, she caught Arya and Sexy Jesus having some extracurricular activities and is none to happy about it.
Can you blame her tough? Who woldn’t want some ”extraccurricular activities” with Jaqen. 😉
Do we know for sure that D&D know the contents of book 6? Martin probably told them major plot points, but I doubt he will spoil his own book to great detail, it would not be wise for a writer (at least not one that plans to finish the books 😛 )
And I doubt Arya and the Waif got some quarrel, there is no Waif (only no one), and no one would not hunt down Arya with a blood stained knife in a public place. So, maybe some test? In any case if this is the end of Arya with the FM, I really hope that by then she will have mastered something other than the broom. I still don’t know when she learned to put on some face 🙂
On the other hand Karate Kid did learn how to fight from doing chores, so is Arya in the middle of some secret training? Maybe after finishing with the broom she will be ready to paint the fence.
D&D said they have constant talks with GRRM and know exactly where the books are headed. And it’s only fair, in 2008-2009, when he sold them the rights, he kept saying the books would be done by the time the show catches up, as we know that was nonsense, so the last thing he can do is actoully tell them the story, after he basically, failed to deliver material for them too adapt.
Martin sold them the rights to the ENTIRE story, not just the first books, him refusing to tell them where the story goes, would easly breach the contract. (Same with the Harry Potter movies, they bought the rights to all the story, not just invidual books. Only here Rowlling actoully delivered unlike Martin.)
Or him lying, as some deluded people sugested, about the story, after HBO paid for the real thing, will only asure Martin being sued into oblivion.
Arya walks in on the Waif stabbing Jaqhen causing the Waif to lose her cool and turn on her….Arya knows she doesn’t stand a chance against the Waif n maybe a couple more conspirators n she (Arya) flees to the Riverlands….??????
And they really believed him? poor guys, I’m still not even convinced that Martin can finish in just seven books.
But even if he sold them the rights to adapt the entire story, does the contract says anything about deadlines? I mean, they have the rights to adapt the story, but until the books get published there’s no story to adapt. He could have them waiting until 2030 ??
And although I would prefer the show to follow Martin’s plot (if for nothing more, having a template is great), personally I wouldn’t mind the show and the books going separate ways, like exploring different possibilities, for instance in one Jon and Daenerys are allies, and in the other version enemies, or something like that.
Probably warging in Nymeria
Poor Maisie must be the only younger member of the cast that hasn’t shot up six inches since the last season. The waif v Arya is going to be a mega-showdown.
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