Castell de Santa Florentina confirmed as Horn Hill; plus new season 6 spoilers!

Santa Florentina

Los Siete Reinos brings us a new report from Canet de Mar, Spain, home of the lovely Castell de Santa Florentina. Confirmed as a season 6 Game of Thrones location in July, it has been widely speculated as a potential site for bringing Horn Hill, the Tarly family castle, to life in the new season.  And it turns out, the speculation was correct!

Game of Thrones will be filming in three areas at this location: a courtyard, a large room called the King’s Room, and a bedroom. The show is expected to spend three days shooting at the castle. Production moves there on September 9th to begin preparing, and shooting will take place September 12-14th.

We’ve spoken with the people at Los Siete Reinos, and they were kind enough to share information with us that confirms for us without a doubt that the Castell de Santa Florentina is Horn Hill. The info also provided a few spoilers for season 6!

Spoilers and a few photos below the cut!

According to the information L7R acquired, there will be a family dinner scene in season 6 at Horn Hill. It includes Randyll Tarly, his wife (the show character name unconfirmed), his daughter (name unknown) and son Dickon. The look of the dining room will emphasize the Tarly skill as huntsmen, with antler trophies decorating the room. This dinner will be interrupted by Sam’s arrival.

L7R’s representatives also encountered director Jack Bender during their visit to the castle which hinted that the Tarly scenes would fall in episodes 5 and 6 next season.

A closer look at the sections of the Castell de Santa Florentina that will be used in Game of Thrones season 6:
The Courtyard

Photo: Los Siete Reinos

Photo: Los Siete Reinos

The King’s Room – The only real option for a dinner scene.

second

Photo: Los Siete Reinos

The Bedroom

Photo: castelldesantaflorentina.com

Photo: castelldesantaflorentina.com

Dysfunctional family dinners are a Game of Thrones specialty so I can’t wait to see that scene, and the Tarly family as a whole.

Thanks to our friends at Los Siete Reinos for their thorough reporting, especially during filming this month!

233 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. So Horn Hill will appear only briefly; they’re only filming there for three days, which in terms of production cannot be more than a few scenes. Apparently, there is a Tarly family dinner scene which is interrupted by the arrival of Sam, Gilly and Little Sam.

      These Horn Hill scenes will take place in either episode five or six, as Jack Bender is directing them. So Sam will go to Oldtown first, after all, just as in AFFC.

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    2. Wow, this castle is spectacular, like move out the couches and you’re good to go! Hang a few Tarly banners, done! Can’t wait to see Randyll get pissed when Sam interrupts dinner 😉

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    3. The exterior of the castle is beautiful! And the inside looks lovely too. Can’t wait to see the dinner scene, those are always a blast.

      Am I the only one who looks at that photo of the Bedroom and sees ‘Frozen’? Looks just like the concept art. O.o

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    4. Luka Nieto,

      Assuming Ian McShane is Randyll Tarly, I wonder if the only scenes of him we will see in Season 6 are at Horn Hill?

      He could make an impression in a few scenes and then be a largely off-camera character leading the Tyrell armies here or there etc.

      I want more McShane on my screen dammit! ARRRRGH!
      Maybe he could have more scenes in Season 7… or perhaps McShane is not Tarly as many speculate….

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    5. Lots of beautiful Spain locations! I wish I had the money to travel.
      Being new to the site, can anyone verify if Castillo de Zafra is indeed being used for a Tower of Joy flashback scene in season 6 as it is being reported on the web?

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    6. SciFiFantasyGirl,

      Zafra being the Tower of Joy was reported on this very website (and originally confirmed by Los Siete Reinos, if I recall correctly.)

      Hodor’s Bastard,

      Doubt it. There cannot be more than a few Horn Hill scenes, considering they’re filming there for only three days. Granted, Randyll could appear elsewhere (after all, in the books he’s in King’s Landing); however, the casting call specified the role was very brief. I doubt he’ll be much more than a bully and an opportunity for Sam to grow a bit more of a spine.

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    7. Luka Nieto: opportunity for Sam to grow a bit more of a spine.

      Can’t wait to hear Gilly boast about Sam the Slayer to Randyll, and how he will react! Perhaps a bit skeptically? 🙂

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    8. Really? only 3 areas they will film in this amazing castle?

      We for sure can get Randyll soon now. I don´t think Randyll will get a small role.

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    9. Sean C.,

      The Randyll Tarly casting announcement made it sound like a fairly important role, but the Ian McShane leak implied he would not have much screen time. My point was that either one of those two bits of info is not accurate or perhaps Ian McShane is not Randyll Tarly. I never thought the McShane news matched up to Randyll Tarly.

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    10. Anyone know of any Tarly soldiers appearing in the past? Really curious about their armor and uniform. I wonder what the new costume designer will do for them.

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    11. Great news! I’m a little bit bummed because I expected Santa Florentina to be Highgarden (we might never see it, I guess)… but oh well, I’m sure we’ll have great scenes at “Hornhill” with the Tarly’s 🙂
      Such a warm family!!!

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    12. Luka Nieto: So Sam will go to Oldtown first, after all, just as in AFFC.

      Well, maybe, maybe not. If the S6 premiere picks up right where S5 left off, which considering all of the cliffhangers is pretty likely, then there’s no way Sam suddenly jumps to Oldtown. Which would also mean we would see Sam and Gilly scenes on their journey South.

      I suppose we could write off travel time as “teleporting” as has happened in the past on GoT… However, I do think it would be strange to pick up with Sam in Oldtown just as we are seeing, for instance, Theon and Sansa land from their jump in 510.

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    13. Sean C.,

      I mixed up Randyll’s casting call and McShane’s reveal in my mind. Yes, Randyll is said to be centrally involved in a main character’s (Sam’s) storyline, true. Yet McShane is confirmed to have a brief role. So maybe McShane is not Randyll after all, or his role is “brief” only considering how big of an actor McShane is.

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    14. Lion of Night,

      These secondary plots often appear first in the second episode. Sam and Gilly can arrive at Oldtown in episode 2. Also, most of Sam’s AFFC story during the voyage was dealt with in Season 5 within the confines of Castle Black —learning about Daenerys and telling Aemon, Aemon’s death, and having sex with Gilly. most importantly. The only relevant thing that is missed in the voyage is Arya’s little cameo during Sam’s stay in Braavos, which is a true pity, but I doubt they’ll go there now. I’d be really surprised if the first thing we see of Sam and Gilly next year is not them looking at Hightower from their boat, to be honest.

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    15. Lion of Night: Well, maybe, maybe not. If the S6 premiere picks up right where S5 left off, which considering all of the cliffhangers is pretty likely, then there’s no way Sam suddenly jumps to Oldtown. Which would also mean we would see Sam and Gilly scenes on their journey South.

      I suppose we could write off travel time as “teleporting” as has happened in the past on GoT… However, I do think it would be strange to pick up with Sam in Oldtown just as we are seeing, for instance, Theon and Sansa land from their jump in 510.

      Sansa in Oldtown confirmed? Season 7 sees Sansa being taken captive by Euron. . . .

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    16. Luka Nieto,

      I personally don’t think the show is going to show the immediate aftermath of Theon and Sansa (indeed, they already went way past that, time-wise), but regardless, Sam and Gilly probably won’t be seen until the second episode, and timing between different stories has always been decidedly inconsistent (which is kind of unavoidable, given the difference between how the books are written and how a show has to be organized).

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    17. Lion of Night: However, I do think it would be strange to pick up with Sam in Oldtown just as we are seeing, for instance, Theon and Sansa land from their jump in 510.

      Sort of like reading the pink letter in Jon XIII (ADwD) then reading the previewed Theon I from TWoW. GRRM screws with time as well. I wonder if the “Boiled Leather” chrono chapter reorg will need to continue into TWoW?

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    18. Luka Nieto,

      Even if they travel through Braavos first so that Sam can meet Arya, I doubt the voyage is so long that they don’t arrive at Horn Hill until episode five or six. Nah, I can’t see that happening. They must be going to Oldtown first, and then Sam will want to drop Gilly off at Horn Hill, just as in the books. My pet theory was that they’d have to escape to Horn Hill because of Euron sacking Oldtown, but the Kingsmoot seems to be happening around the same time as these Horn Hill scenes, in the middle of the season in the episodes directed by Jack Bender, so that can’t be the case.

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    19. As I posted on the previous thread where this news broke:

      Very amusing that when you use Google Translate for that article, Sam Junior comes out as Son of Sam. Be very afraid! Serial killer toddler on the loose!

      And I hope that the set designers are permitted to tone down the Pepto-Bismol-pink wall paint in the bedroom.

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    20. One of Roose Bolton’s 20 good leeches:
      Anyone know of any Tarly soldiers appearing in the past? Really curious about their armor and uniform. I wonder what the new costume designer will do for them.

      Red archer on a green field. Not read the books to know if they are dominant archers, or just take the sigil to boast about hunting. You can expect predominately green with a dash of red.

      If it’s only a short amount of time and if it’s just a dinner scene, I doubt we’ll see much armour, apart from a few extras as guards, and that’s a maybe. So the characters will likely be in green robes.

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    21. Luka Nieto,

      Yeah I suppose it really depends on:
      A. where the premiere picks up, and
      B. which episode Sam and Gilly first make an appearance in.

      That being said, I don’t think we can count out their Wall to Reach journey as a possibility if our evidence is based on what book/Sam plot they’ve already covered.

      By that line of reasoning, Sansa’s S5 arc would have been very different! There wasn’t *that* much book Sansa material that hadn’t already been covered pre-Season 5, so for S5 the show made new plot for her. I think that could happen with Sam, depending on….

      at what point Oldtown needs to become relevant for the show. Another thing we don’t know yet. Much like the kingsmoot being pushed back to S6, we don’t really know *when* it makes the most sense for show/Sam to be in Oldtown.

      Now that you’ve got me really thinking about it, I’ll pose another question 🙂

      Does it really make sense to introduce a major character (Sam) to a new city (Oldtown) with new characters only to have him bounce back to another new castle (Horn Hill) a few episodes later for brief scenes (three-days-of-filming-worth) and then bounce back to Oldtown again?

      Maybe the show can figure out a cool way to do it, but I remain uncertain.

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    22. Lion of Night:

      I suppose we could write off travel time as “teleporting” as has happened in the past on GoT… However, I do think it would be strange to pick up with Sam in Oldtown just as we are seeing, for instance, Theon and Sansa land from their jump in 510.

      To be fair, a cripple and a heavily-dressed young woman who has spent her entire life lolly-gagging around castles magically teleporting outside the range of a skilled hunter, his hounds, and thousands of mounted soldiers is going to be rather silly as well. In reality, they’d be caught before they made it a mile. This along with Dany’s magic Ring of Daario Summoning is just one of the little plot holes we will have to ignore in the early part of the season. Fortunately they should not have any add-on butterfly wing effects down the road.

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    23. If there’s obe area where the show truly excels and even eclipses the books its at family dysfunction. I for one look forward to the Tarly’s next season and their reaction to Gilly.

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    24. Chad Brick,

      I see your point, but maybe the hunt never really gets started, because they’re interrupted by news of an army from the Vale. There’s also the possibility of them going down into the crypts, like Bran, Rickon, Hodor and Osha did.

      I can’t even begin to guess how it’s all going to happen, I’m just saying there are a variety of possibilities where we wouldn’t have to suspend our disbelief as much.

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    25. Checked on the history of the castle – it was built on top of the site of a Roman manor, in the 11th century. Just amazing to me how much is there (obviously, they’ve changed the furniture a few times!)

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    26. Nymeria Warrior Queen: I can’t even begin to guess how it’s all going to happen, I’m just saying there are a variety of possibilities where we wouldn’t have to suspend our disbelief as much.

      This is what I love about off-season: all the ideas. It’s so much fun to speculate and try to support a single idea, but it is just as easy to forget that there are many, many ways plots can unfold.

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    27. Hodor’s Bastard: Sort of like reading the pink letter in Jon XIII (ADwD) then reading the previewed Theon I from TWoW. GRRM screws with time as well.

      Yeah, someone put together an inferred timeline for known Dragons & Winter events. If you have note seen it, then I reposted it in the forums. As you note, GRRM’s chapters gets way out of sync, too. However, a big part of that is that GRRM is structuring character lines to have parallels for the sake of the immediate story. So, Jon’s assassination, Daeny’s near assassination, Tyrion’s escape, Theon’s escape, Bran’s ascension, Arya’s ascension, etc., needed to happen at about the same time in the book. However, Jon’s assassination had to follow the Battle of Ice for the Pink Letter so that the Pink Letter could be a trigger for Jon’s assassination: but GRRM obviously felt that the Battle of Ice would feed the Winter story more. That’s understandable as it really follows the climax of Theon’s story in Dragons.

      All of that written, I would not be surprised if we see the Pink Letter this year. I still have that hunch that Ramsay is going to precipitate the events that lead to the Night Watch falling. It obviously will be a little different from in the books, but I suspect that the “nationalists” attempt to put things to rights are going to be what contributes to their end.

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    28. Nymeria Warrior Queen:
      There’s also the possibility of them going down into the crypts, like Bran, Rickon, Hodor and Osha did.

      How, seeing as they’ve already left the castle? (and why, for that matter, seeing as they don’t have any reason to expect help)

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    29. Nymeria Warrior Queen: I’m just saying there are a variety of possibilities where we wouldn’t have to suspend our disbelief as much.

      Sean C.: How, seeing as they’ve already left the castle? (and why, for that matter, seeing as they don’t have any reason to expect help)

      True, Theon & Sansa won’t wind up there: but the Boltons probably will! The Boltons would spend most of their time and resources looking for the two inside of Winterfell somewhere: it would not occur to them for a while that Theon & Sansa had left the castle.

      Moreover, it’s quite possible that Bran will be using his powers now to aid the two of them. They’ve got to get someplace somehow, and the Deus ex Dendro gun has been hung on the wall now.

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    30. Nymeria Warrior Queen:
      Chad Brick,

      I see your point, but maybe the hunt never really gets started, because they’re interrupted by news of an army from the Vale.There’s also the possibility of them going down into the crypts, like Bran, Rickon, Hodor and Osha did.

      I can’t even begin to guess how it’s all going to happen, I’m just saying there are a variety of possibilities where we wouldn’t have to suspend our disbelief as much.

      I admit that I never thought of the Vale invading right now, but Amazing Timing Coincidences are not something consider good writing. Also, it is implausible that Roose wouldn’t know they were coming. They’d either have to march up the King’s Road and take the Twins and Moat Cailin, or if they somehow came by sea take White Harbor or Ramsgate then march across hundreds of miles of hostile territory. Either way, a raven and riders would arrive long before the Vale Armies did.

      Since they are already outside the castle, its hard to see what role the crypts would play, and in any case Ramsay would be painfully conscious of the idea that the Starks might have a secret way to escape the castle. It would also be his greatest fear, so he’d be putting all his effort into encircling the area.

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    31. Wimsey:
      True, Theon & Sansa won’t wind up there: but the Boltons probably will!The Boltons would spend most of their time and resources looking for the two inside of Winterfell somewhere: it would not occur to them for a while that Theon & Sansa had left the castle.

      Myranda fell screaming into the courtyard, which would have drawn all eyes first to her and then to where she fell from, i.e., where Theon and Sansa are. After which they jumped off the battlements, where any attempt to run away across the open ground would be observed by sentries. Moreover, we see Sansa approaching the point where she meets Myranda and Theon, through a series of open walkways with other people around and minimal points of egress. It is not plausible that they would be confused about where they went, and as I said, even if they were, their running away would be immediately spotted.

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    32. SciFiFantasyGirl,

      Her eyes will be as big as saucers. Imagine going from knowing nothing but Craster’s to a place like that!

      Lion of Night,

      This off-season seems especially fun, since we’re that much more in the dark.

      Sean C.,

      Bran and co. had left the castle, too. How did they sneak back in? As for not expecting help, didn’t Peter say he was coming back? Even if she didn’t go down there to wait for help, and I hadn’t really thought that far, given, as I already stated, I was just saying there are a variety of possibilities, and I have no idea what will happen, why wouldn’t she decide to go down there to wait until the search was exhausted, or Ramsay was otherwise distracted, to to try and put distance between them?

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    33. Wimsey: If you have not seen it, then I reposted it in the forums

      Yes, that excellent piece of work by BrendynBFish should be added to the Boiled Leather chrono list at some point. Thx for the reminder.

      Regarding the aftermath of FTW, I am a bit more short-sighted than most. I simply want to know what WunWun, Ghost and Mel do in the moments after the mutiny and stabby-stab. In the show, I hope Wun Wun does to Olly what he did to Ser Patrek in ADwD. In the book, Wun Wun is just standing there!!! [Admittedly, they didn’t go thru HH together so there is obvious distance]

      Regarding the “nationalists,” I wonder if they will give the wildling refugees an option to return peacefully or not, or will Ser Alliser (in the show) realize what an asset Wun Wun might be. (Duh!!!). Or will “Jon the Targ” (or AA) completely change the dynamic before he departs (assuming he is released from his vows in his second life)?

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    34. Wimsey:
      True, Theon & Sansa won’t wind up there: but the Boltons probably will!The Boltons would spend most of their time and resources looking for the two inside of Winterfell somewhere: it would not occur to them for a while that Theon & Sansa had left the castle.

      Moreover, it’s quite possible that Bran will be using his powers now to aid the two of them.They’ve got to get someplace somehow, and the Deus ex Dendro gun has been hung on the wall now.

      They have thousands of troops. Why would they task most of them to look inside the castle? It’s outside the castle where all the risk lies, and which could use the men. Having more and more men over-search the same small area has incredibly high rates of diminishing returns.

      You are right that the story demands that they get somewhere. But D&D have set this up to be logically impossible by giving Roose and Ramsay full control of the land for miles and thousands of mounted men to scour it with, and then topping it off by surrounding Winterfell by a mostly-treeless landscape with lots of snow! It would be the easiest tracking job in history, even if the prey weren’t slow and only given a head-start on the order of an hour.

      It certainly wouldn’t make sense for Brienne to find her. Not only would another instance of BrienneGPS be over the top, but Brienne is clearly on the wrong side of Winterfell. The last direction S&T would go is towards the battle. Is Brienne just going to decide to take a jog around the castle now that she’s gotten her revenge? It’s more likely that some friendly northerners would show up (Umbers, etc) but this seems very Deus Ex Machina and hasn’t been set up properly. Also, with the Bolton dominance of the era, it’s not clear how they could help or outrun the hunters.

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    35. If McShane isn’t playing Randyll- and I have every reason to believe that he is, mind you- one alternate possibility that I’ve heard mentioned is that he’s going to play

      Rickard Stark

      in a flashback scene. THAT would be awesome, as we’ve rarely ever seen that character in flashbacks in the books, much less the TV show.

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    36. Dammit.

      I just typed out a long response, got the timed out message, and when I back arrowed, it the post was gone, which it usually isn’t. I often copy the post, just in case, by I didn’t this time.

      I said something about how, at first, news of a Vale army would not necessarily mean war to Bolton. last he knew, Baelish was on his side. It wouldn’t be until the army was much closer, and had killed some Bolton men, or something, that he realized the Vale army was not friendly. I think that would take some focus away from the search for Sansa.

      Back to Horn Hill: I wonder if Sam will mention anything to his father about Valyrian steel? Hell, I wonder how Sam will interact with his father. Will he turn into trembling mess, or will his experiences since last he saw daddy-dearest give him the strength to stand up to him to at least some extent?

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    37. Nymeria Warrior Queen:
      As for not expecting help, didn’t Peter say he was coming back?

      Littlefinger said he’d return at some point, but not with an army. Sansa would have no reason to expect any help in that regard; if anything, she’d expect Baelish to be imprisoned on his return, since the Boltons for no reason decided to abrogate their alliance with him immediately after he left.

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    38. RBloodworth,

      I don’t really see any reason to think McShane is playing Tarly. First, why would they be keeping that a secret, since they announced the casting of Dickon? Second, Tarly sounds like he’s meant to be a prominent guest part, but McShane’s role is made to sound small (these could just be differing assessments in terms of how big a role is to be expected for an actor like McShane, mind you).

      The obfuscation around McShane’s role leads me to the conclusion that the role must be some kind of meaningful spoiler. I had earlier thought McShane might be playing Marwyn, but I’m now thinking that’s less likely, since Marwyn is an existing character in the books and his name wouldn’t mean anything to non-readers. He may be playing a character we meet for the first time in TWOW, for instance, or else a significant flashback character, or something along those lines. Maybe the Elder Brother/Meribald hybrid, if talking about that role were to give away the presence of another character?

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    39. Nymeria Warrior Queen: I wonder if Sam will mention anything to his father about Valyrian steel? Hell, I wonder how Sam will interact with his father.

      I hope so, but I think Gilly will defend him before he asserts himself.

      (In Sam’s assertive dreams)
      Sam (pulls out a shard of obsidian): This is how I killed a WW. And I heard Valyrian Steel, like Heartsbane, has also killed a WW. They need you and your armies at the wall.

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    40. That great room will be an awesome backdrop for another infamous GOT family dinner, gotta’ love ’em. LOL Wonder what scene they’re going to film in the pink bedroom?????

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    41. What a beautiful castle! I am looking forward to the interrupted dinner scene and Sam’s arrival already!

      I wish we could find out who is playing Randyll Tarly soon. I also wonder about Ian McShane’s role: could he play Aerys Targaryen?

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    42. GOT Fan:
      That great room will be an awesome backdrop for another infamous GOT family dinner, gotta’ love ’em. LOLWonder what scene they’re going to film in the pink bedroom?????

      Sam grabbing Heartsbane from his father’s mantelpiece before hoofing it out of the castle, lol.

      I think everyone concerned about who plays Tarly should just wait a week, just like with that horse-on-steps scene. L7R has such a good intel, they have probably already, like, installed camera drones in those rooms and bribed half of the castle curators, or something. 😀

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    43. I would be pretty surprised at this point if McShane ends up playing Randyll Tarly. Especially since his casting announcement came so early on, plus the Bloodraven recasting and Euron and Dickon following it. Idk, just doesn’t add up to me. I hope he’s Marwyn.

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    44. Sam and Gilly will arrive at Horn Hill while Lady Olenna is meeting with Randyl. Sam will notice all the extra guards outside and ask one of the Tarly men whats with all the extra men and he will tell him “The Queen of Thorns treats with your Lord father” and not to interrupt them. Thats when his sister will notice him from a window nearby and call him in. Then eventually we will see a scene where Lady Olenna is describing events in Kings Landing and preparing Randyl for the potential war to come if action is not taken, she will also mention that Mace is in Braavos.

      After this scene Randyl will meet with Sam and walk in on him talking with his sister in the Great Hall where Sam is staring at HeartsBane.

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    45. hmm, Jack bender will have Kingsmoot and Horn Hill at episodes 5 and/or 6.

      i just hope Euron and Randyll dont show up for the first time at episodes 5 and 6. They need to show them self at least at episode 3. But i Hope Euron in the First episode and Randyll in the second episode.

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    46. Anyone else feels a little bit bummed about how Winterfell compares to all these glorious castles. I know it’s the consequence of production realities back in Season 1, but man! Winterfell looks like a hell hole compared to pretty much every other castle out there, whereas it’s supposedly a magnificent structure.

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    47. MILD BOOK SPOILERS

      I think we’ll see Sam and Gilly in episode 3 at the earliest. But I’m also one of the only people who still thinks Jaqen will end up in the Citadel for his book plot, so I’m weird. 🙂
      Talking about weird predictions, I was actually convinced they were going to go full Hogwarts and this turned out to be the Citadel. Ah well.

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    48. Sam at Horn Hill? Does it mean he will give up looking for information about the White Walkers and focus on gathering as many valyrian steel swords as possible?

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    49. Mr Fixit:
      Anyone else feels a little bit bummed about how Winterfell compares to all these glorious castles. I know it’s the consequence of production realities back in Season 1, butman! Winterfell looks like a hell hole compared to pretty much every other castle out there, whereas it’s supposedly a magnificent structure.

      Not really. In the books (at least, as I imagined it when reading) Winterfell and the northern castles in general were meant to be pretty rough and ready compared to the southern palaces and manors.

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    50. Luka Nieto,

      What if Sam stops by to see his family on his way to Oldtown, then gets there, and these scenes are just between the Tarly without him later in the season?
      Sam could just introduce his father to the viewer and if this character is bound to have some importance we could have a family dinner with him without Sam.

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    51. RBloodworth: Rickard Stark
      in a flashback scene. THAT would be awesome, as we’ve rarely ever seen that character in flashbacks in the books, much less the TV show.

      I’m starting to think he must be playing a flashback role – why else keep it under wraps?

      However, if so, then I think the only real option is that he is the mad king. Aerys is such a fundamental figure in the overall tale – I can see them picking a well-known actor to fulfil this character we’ve heard so much about. And McShane can certainly do cold and cruel.

      Not sure what he’d look like with blond / white hair mind you.

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    52. LordDavos:
      Maybe Yara/Asha and crew save Theon and Sansa .

      Was it explained in the book how Theon and Jeyne Pool escaped without being detected? My memory is a bit hazy, but my impression was that it was not explained.

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    53. Lion of Night:
      Luka Nieto,

      Does it really make sense to introduce a major character (Sam) to a new city (Oldtown) with new characters only to have him bounce back to another new castle (Horn Hill) a few episodes later for brief scenes (three-days-of-filming-worth) and then bounce back to Oldtown again?

      Don’t think that’s likely. I would guess we’ll see them on their journey south first (possibly including Braavos), then they’ll go to Hornhill (to drop off Gilly?) in ep. 5 and 6. After that, Sam will travel to Oldtown. That matches the presumable Greyjoy timeline as well, with the KM in ep 5/6, after which Euron might sail to Oldtown.

      What interests me the most is that this means we won’t be seeing Randyll in KL before at least episode 7, if he goes there at all like in the books. To me that point to an increased role for Kevan, Olenna and possibly Mace Tyrell in the first half of the season. I do hope Randyll will make it to KL this season, though.

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    54. Kay,

      The more I think about it, the more convinced I become that McShane must be playing someone who we know by name already, who even show-watchers would find significant —that basically means it must be a flashback character. The Mad King, Ned’s father… Who knows!

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    55. Nymeria Warrior Queen: I said something about how, at first, news of a Vale army would not necessarily mean war to Bolton. last he knew, Baelish was on his side. It wouldn’t be until the army was much closer, and had killed some Bolton men, or something, that he realized the Vale army was not friendly. I think that would take some focus away from the search for Sansa.

      Before Stannis’ army was smashed in episode 5×10 already, I expected the Battle of Ice to take place in episode 4×01 or 4×02 (maybe even for a whole episode as so many main characters could have been involved: Sansa, Theon, Ramsay, Roose, Stannis, Brienne, Pod, Littlefinger… Vale Lords? Yara? Davos? Melisandre? Jon and the Wildlings?)
      What I thought would happen: Winterfell is attacked by Stannis’ army from the north without the possibility of counter-attacking the besiegers on open ground. Roose suddenly notices Vale banners approaching from the south. Expecting LF to bring reinforcements he opens the gates to the Vale Lords only to be betrayed by Baelish while Ramsay has left the castle searching for Sansa and Theon against Roose’s will. The Vale army then takes Winterfell Tywin-style (Sack of Kings Landing) and opens the gates for Stannis (to side with him against the Lannisters or to betray him, too).

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    56. The King Who Cares: Episode 6×01 or 6×02 of course!

      The Vale’s army is several times larger than the forces of either the Boltons or formerly Stannis. If LF could actually mobilize them, they could squish everything from the Twins to the Dreadfort (but not in secret!). It’s a bit hard to figure out how such a mobilization would happen on the show given what LF has done with Sansa. Are the Vale lords going to remain ignorant as to her disappearance? And unquestioning of LF’s jetpacking? I’m still struggling as to how this would work. The books are an entirely different beast, because Sansa is still in the Vale.

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    57. Chad Brick,

      Exactly! The Vale army has remained untact since they Vale lords haven’t taken part in any of the recent wars. I don’t know how Littlefinger could possibly explain how Sansa got to the Boltons. And why would the Vale lords follow him now that he doesn’t have her? It would be obvious that it was him who gave Sansa to the Boltons.

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    58. Sam the Slayer,

      Possibly confusing, although I felt like this is specifically what the show was setting up at the end of last season – the show’s already established that someone having Jaqen’s face doesn’t mean that this is “Jaqen”. As of the end of last season every Faceless Man could be Jaqen. The original owner of Jaqen’s face may have died years ago…

      So Tom Wlaschiha could become shorthand for any FM that isn’t Arya or the Waif.

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    59. I feel that Sansa and Theon could first be shown to us -believably – in the following way:

      -climbing out of the snowbank (so their landing is explained),
      -cut to them running through the woods, hearing horns blaring, signalling Ramsay’s hunt,
      -them running madly (as much as either of them can) bumping into a Northener thinking he’s a Bolton, just to discover it’s an Umber/Karstark/Mormont/Manderly etc.

      …and I would fully accept that. Similar to how it happened in the books,

      where they bumped into the Umbers.

      That would be more than enough for me.

      Re: the Tarly’s… is there any indication that the filming at Horn Hill will be Randyl’s only screen time? Is it not possible that there are more scenes with him we simply don’t know about yet? I mean, he’s gotta be significant enough to include in the story…

      maybe he shows up at KL to give Mace a hand 🙂

      just like in the books.

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    60. Nymeria Warrior Queen:

      Back to Horn Hill:I wonder if Sam will mention anything to his father about Valyrian steel?Hell, I wonder how Sam will interact with his father.Will he turn into trembling mess, or will his experiences since last he saw daddy-dearest give him the strength to stand up to him to at least some extent?

      This is a great question. Hopefully, Sam will tell Daddy Dearest about the importance of Valyrian steel in the eventual (?) battle against the WW. Someone else – especially a skilled commander like Randyll – needs to have this information.

      I hope that Sam exhibits some sort of backbone when dealing with his father. John Bradley has done such a great job portraying Sam’s intelligence and insight. I will be throwing things at the TV if Randyll – a character that I hate – continues to humiliate him.

      Sean C.,

      Yes, if McShane was playing Randyll, we would know it by now. I’m sure that we will soon get clues to the character’s identity.

      Grandmaester Flash,

      That comment made me laugh out loud. Well done.

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    61. But I’m also one of the only people who still thinks Jaqen will end up in the Citadel for his book plot, so I’m weird.

      Well, I thought so a while ago too, but the more I think about it, the more I come to consider the Maesters / Faceless Men conspiracies to become nothing more than minor plots in the books. I think the show will skip these.

      But I hope to be wrong and perhaps these arcs will be major ones of the last two books !

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    62. Ravyn,

      Sorry, those lime colored couches have to go

      Ya think, those things are so retro late 60’s-early 70’s.

      Perhaps the Lord is using the filming as an excuse to dispose of his Lady’s decor.

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    63. Chad Brick: It’s a bit hard to figure out how such a mobilization would happen on the show given what LF has done with Sansa. Are the Vale lords going to remain ignorant as to her disappearance? And unquestioning of LF’s jetpacking? I’m still struggling as to how this would work. The books are an entirely different beast, because Sansa is still in the Vale.

      My theory was that someone could help him. What LF needs is a person, who supports his plan to bring down the Boltons and who could convince the Vale Lords to march north. This is where the Blackfish comes into play again. He could have escaped to the Vale after the RW where he has served as Knight of the Bloody Gate for a long time (at least in the books), which is a position of great honor. It would make sense since the Blackfish is basically like an uncle to LF, he has a motive to back this mission since he knows that Roose was responsible for what happened at the RW and he would want to safe Sansa, he probably enjoys an excellent reputation and is considered honorable and trustworthy by the Vale Lords and he is the type of experienced military commander whom LF needs at the top of his army.

      But hey, it’s Littlefinger. Maybe he manages to persuade them himself or it has something to do with Sweet Robin (who is the Lord of the Vale after all and easy to manipulate).

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    64. Ravyn,

      Nah, Samwell chose those. That’s the real reason why Randyll disowned him and sent him to the Wall. He thought Sam was going all Laurence Llewelyn-Bowen on him.

      Randyll will bring them out of storage just in time for Sam’s arrival in order to remind him of why he’s so ashamed of his son.

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    65. Luka Nieto:
      Kay,

      The more I think about it, the more convinced I become that McShane must be playing someone who we know by name already, who even show-watchers would find significant —that basically means it must be a flashback character. The Mad King, Ned’s father… Who knows!

      I agree that he must be playing someone that viewers “know” by reputation already. Speaking as a show watcher (NOT going by the books), Ned’s father hasn’t been name-dropped, has he? Contrast that with just last season, when Aerys was discussed. In the Barristan-Daenerys scene, the Tyrion-Daenerys scene, as well as mentioned, when LF was talking to Sansa in the crypts about Harrenhall (as the King). He has also been name-dropped before. He is such a central figure in what happened during Robert’s rebellion. If they are doing flashbacks, I imagine he and a number of others from that time being part of the flashbacks. Perhaps a young Jaime will also be part of the flashbacks.

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    66. Cassandra: Was it explained in the book how Theon and Jeyne Pool escaped without being detected? My memory is a bit hazy, but my impression was that it was not explained.

      In the book, they jumped out of the castle in the middle of a snowstorm at a time when the castle garrison, etc. was idle, and almost immediately ran into Mors Umber and his men, who spirited them away.

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    67. Sean C.: In the book, they jumped out of the castle in the middle of a snowstorm at a time when the castle garrison, etc. was idle, and almost immediately ran into Mors Umber and his men, who spirited them away.

      Ah, thank you Sean. I definitely need to do a re-read before the next book comes out, otherwise I will be lost. And yes, I am optimistic that it will come out soon!

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    68. Game of Thrones loves awkward dinner scenes.

      Randyll Tarly is going to be pissed when Sam arrives at Horn Hill. There is probably going to be some type of confrontation between the characters. The reason why it might be short filming is that Randyll may go off to face the Ironborn. If they are tying the two storylines together. Plus, Sam is there is drop off Gilly and Baby Sam so he won’t spend a lot of time at Horn Hill.

      It is just a guess. I could be incorrect about the scene.

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    69. I guess Sam will pass Sam jr. off as his own, and Gilly as the daughter of a minor northern Lord Craster who’s keep was overrun by Wildlings. Though how is Sam going to explain Gilly’s lack of a proper lady upbringing? Unless he trains her on their journey south.

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    70. Angela,

      I’m unclear whether Sam is going to be dropping Gilly off there in the show. Granted, that’s a plausible reason for them to be going there, but Show!Sam seems pretty determined not to be separated from Gilly again (indeed, they made a point of that multiple times). In the book he’s planning to send Gilly to Horn Hill, but the characters’ situations are very different.

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    71. tyjon,

      If I recall correctly, in the books there is no mention of passing Gilly off as a noble, or even a subject of the Seven Kingdoms for that matter —as far as we know, Sam intends to introduce her as a wildling with whom he has fathered a child.

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    72. Sean C.,

      The relationship, as well as the characters, have developed much more in the show than in the books. It’s true, their situation is quite different. Why go to Horn Hill, then? Is Sam going to become a Valyrian steel sword collector? 😛

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    73. Hodor’s Bastard: Regarding the aftermath of FTW, I am a bit more short-sighted than most. I simply want to know what WunWun, Ghost and Mel do in the moments after the mutiny and stabby-stab. In the show, I hope Wun Wun does to Olly what he did to Ser Patrek in ADwD. In the book, Wun Wun is just standing there!!! [Admittedly, they didn’t go thru HH together so there is obvious distance]

      Good questions! My guess that it will be more chaotic in the book, which means that many more things could happen immediately.

      My hunch is that, in the end, we will have Jon back. He won’t be “Azor Ahai” or anything like that. However, much as Daeny got a lot of clarity from her personal catharsis stemming from her assassination attempt, I suspect that Jon will emerge with a new sense of focus after having spent so long trying to juggle competing interests for a greater good. What that will be, however, I do not know.

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    74. Agro,

      Oh cool. That was the assumption I was making, but cool to hear it from him.

      Dutch Maester,

      Right, exactly. Although one thing I’m realizing I hadn’t made clear, is that I also think there’s a chance Sam and Gilly may travel by *land.* In retrospect I can appreciate why a couple episodes of boat travel would suck.

      If Sam & Gilly are indeed stopping at Horn Hill first, a land journey makes more sense.

      Luka Nieto you were taking about them traveling South via boat, right? I don’t know why we never really discussed that aspect of it!

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    75. Sean C.:
      Angela,

      I’m unclear whether Sam is going to be dropping Gilly off there in the show.Granted, that’s a plausible reason for them to be going there, but Show!Sam seems pretty determined not to be separated from Gilly again (indeed, they made a point of that multiple times).In the book he’s planning to send Gilly to Horn Hill, but the characters’ situations are very different.

      I messed up the spoiler tag thing.

      Maybe not then.

      I was wondering why the filming was so short. I figured Sam is dropping them off, confrontation with his dad, and then leave for Oldtown.

      I could be completely wrong though.

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    76. Chekhov’sOlly: But see that’s the problem in the show, there’s not a storm that could hide Sansa and Theon because of Shireen’s sacrifice.

      Ah, but all they need is for a storm to come after they realize that they left the castle. Remember, with the army returning and (to a much lesser extent) Miranda’s death elsewhere, all eyes were off of these two. That, and their escape route is highly improbable. It might not be the last place people would think to look, but it also would be far from the first.

      Also, people are forgetting one important factor: Bran. We might get a taste of what a tree-god can do in terms of guiding some people and confusing others.

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    77. Luka Nieto: Is Sam going to become a Valyrian steel sword collector?

      I sometimes get the impression that people are expecting an ending where the White Walkers charge some dozen or so characters and all explode as they get hit by Valyrian steel swords…..

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    78. Imagine what Gilly’s reaction will be to seeing Horn Hill! She was impressed that Sam could read – seeing the inside of the castle is going to blow her mind. I like the scenes between Sam and Gilly, though a lot of people have no love to spare for them. It’s interesting to see how a wildling girl would take to being “civilized.” Did they say yet who was cast as Sam’s mother?

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    79. Thronetender,

      Imagine Gilly seeing Oldtown! I was quite surprised that the book completely skipped past her feelings on seeing a city, let alone a city such as Oldtown —I mean… Hightower!

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    80. Wimsey: I sometimes get the impression that people are expecting an ending where the White Walkers charge some dozen or so characters and all explode as they get hit by Valyrian steel swords…..

      🙂

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    81. Nymeria Warrior Queen: I having fun imagining Gilly’s reaction to the place.

      I hadn’t read all of the responses when I posted mine. Glad to see there’s another person on here who likes the Gilly character. To me, seeing a sweet relationship bloom in the midst of all the killing and chaos is a welcome respite – from all the killing and chaos. It offers a hope for the future of all the beautiful things about humans and humanity, and certainly a different perspective on sex than the show usually shows.

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    82. Sean C.,

      Actually, the castle spans several acres, and Theon and Sansa seem to be on the opposite side of the entrance. If Brienne and Podrick catch them and run away immediately, before the Boltons notice their escape, they can outrun the Boltons.
      Plus, they have fresh horses, while the soldiers’ ones must be exhausted after the battle.

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    83. Luka Nieto,

      Well technically Craster is a minor northern lord, though a wildling “lord” from the true north, Sam can exclude all the minor details, so it’s more of a white lie.

      I can imagine much of the confrontation will concern Sam as an oath breaker, but Mrs. Tarly should be more than able to silence her husband, by subtly hinting about his discretion’s.

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    84. Yikes, I just noticed there’s no edit button. Sue, you will put it back, won’t you?

      Though I’ve made my share of punctuation and grammar mistakes, I’m rather like the late ex King Stannis who can’t help but edit – I go back and change shit if I see that it was typed wrong. You’ve got to put it back, if only for those of us who always remember just one more thing to say, or note an absent apostrophe. Maybe it’s a little OCD, but face it, all the most avid GoT fans are probably compulsive in some way, else there would only be crickets and dust on this site at this time of year. Sue, Honor your compulsives!

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    85. Wimsey: Ah, but all they need is for a storm to come after they realize that they left the castle.

      It’s a perfectly clear day, and it would be understood that they left the castle almost immediately.

      Tywin of the Hill,

      They’re also on the opposite side from where Brienne and Pod are. There’s no reason why they would be there.

      tyjon,

      Per the book, Sam is planning to send Gilly to Horn Hill with a request that his mother employ her as a servant. He’s not planning to pass her off as somebody of high status.

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    86. Thronetender:
      Yikes, I just noticed there’s no edit button.Sue, you will put it back, won’t you?

      Though I’ve made my share of punctuation and grammar mistakes, I’m rather like the late ex King Stannis who can’t help but edit – I go back and change shit if I see that it was typed wrong.You’ve got to put it back, if only for those of us who always remember just one more thing to say, or note an absent apostrophe. Maybe it’s a little OCD, but face it, all the most avid GoT fans are probably compulsive in some way, else there would only be crickets and dust on this site at this time of year. Sue, Honor your compulsives!

      I noticed that too. Plus, the spoiler tag isn’t working for me. I put the shortcode in correctly. Is anyone else having that problem?

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    87. Wimsey: Ah, but all they need is for a storm to come after they realize that they left the castle.Remember, with the army returning and (to a much lesser extent) Miranda’s death elsewhere, all eyes were off of these two.That, and their escape route is highly improbable.It might not be the last place people would think to look, but it also would be far from the first.

      Also, people are forgetting one important factor: Bran.We might get a taste of what a tree-god can do in terms of guiding some people and confusing others.

      I like your theory that they would be searching inside the castle first. After all, jumping off the wall does seem like a remote possibility, and just leaving through the gate seems improbable. Also, would Ramsey immediately realise that Sansa and his Reek are missing? That should give them a headstart. I expect Brienne and Pod to find them. After all, they are in the immediate vicinity.

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    88. Ravyn: And kill Ramsay by Ep 2, I hope. (Sorry, Ihwan)

      Ha ha. Yes. But then on the other hand, I would love to see some more interaction between Ramsey and Roose, especially in scenes where Roose puts Ramsey in his place in his coldly-Roose manner. I am a fan of Roose Bolton, and I don’t want to see his come-uppance soon.

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    89. Sean C.: Per the book, Sam is planning to send Gilly to Horn Hill with a request that his mother employ her as a servant. He’s not planning to pass her off as somebody of high status

      Oh no, that can’t happen – another high-born male making his lady-love a servant? Think how that worked out for Tyrion and Shae. Besides, Sam already declared that “they” could bloody try to keep him from Gilly. He meant those at the Citadel, but probably anyone else, as well, including mom and dad. Don’t think he will be leaving Gilly.

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    90. West of Moon:
      Angela,

      It’s been like that for a few days now. I noticed it at the same time the edit option vanished (for me at least)

      Okay. I was just wondering if it was just my computer or my connection to the internet.

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    91. Cassandra: I like your theory that they would be searching inside the castle first. After all, jumping off the wall does seem like a remote possibility, and just leaving through the gate seems improbable.

      The great “prison escapes” of history typically have had one thing in common: implausible escape routes. Prisoners wind up escaping because the searchers look in “obvious” places first. After all, 99+% of the time, prisoners are quickly found in those obvious places.

      Brienne and Pod might also find them quickly, particularly if Bran leads them to Sansa & Theon. It’s Bran’s role that I think needs further pondering: after all, in the books

      Bran seems to be whispering to Theon through the trees

      : that presents a convenient plot device for the show that can kill two (or even three) birds with one stone. Or branch. Whatever.

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    92. Cassandra: Ha ha. Yes. But then on the other hand, I would love to see some more interaction between Ramsey and Roose, especially in scenes where Roose puts Ramsey in his place in his coldly-Roose manner. I am a fan of Roose Bolton, and I don’t want to see his come-uppance soon.

      The downside to both Boltons being killed. No more Roose Bolton being played by the great Michael McElhatton. The only one.

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    93. Sean C.: It’s a perfectly clear day, and it would be understood that they left the castle almost immediately.

      Yes, because perfectly clear days never turn into stormy days in a matter of hours during a stormy season…..

      And, no, it would not be understood immediately that they had left the castle. Quite the opposite: it would be assumed immediately that they were hiding somewhere within the castle. What are Theon and Sansa going to do, jump off of the walls?

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    94. Cassandra: Also, would Ramsey immediately realise that Sansa and his Reek are missing?

      Iccck … Ramsay made a comment about heading back to the castle because his wife missed him. I remember it, because I muttered to the TV “no she doesn’t, dude.”

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    95. Angela: The downside to both Boltons being killed. No more Roose Bolton being played by the great Michael McElhatton. The only one.

      heh, true. However, I think that we can expect to see more of the Boltons. The show went out of it’s way to show us Ramsay telling Sansa that her half-brother is at the Wall. That sets up Ramsay concluding that Sansa has gone there. Given that this is what happens in the book, too, I think that we can expect Ramsay to be around a while longer and do some real damage before he goes.

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    96. Hodor’s Bastard: Sam (pulls out a shard of obsidian): This is how I killed a WW. And I heard Valyrian Steel, like Heartsbane, has also killed a WW. They need you and your armies at the wall.

      heh, which could lead to Randyll pointing out that this is what happens when you let your sons brains go soft on nursery stories!

      This is something that has not yet come up on the show although it does in the background of the books: the reactions of the southerners when they hear the stories about the White Walkers returning. Obviously, the stories will be dismissed: both show and books make it clear that most people of authority/learning think that the White Walkers are long gone and that many doubt that they ever existed. Obviously, they are not going to drop their “petty” feuds for the important war when they believe their feuds to be important and the important war to be make-believe.

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    97. Thronetender: Iccck … Ramsay made a comment about heading back to the castle because his wife missed him.I remember it, because I muttered to the TV“no she doesn’t, dude.”

      True enough, but the Myranda thing might cause enough distraction for him not to go looking for Sansa immediately. I also thought: his wife misses him? Yuk!!!

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    98. Wimsey: heh, true.However, I think that we can expect to see more of the Boltons.The show went out of it’s way to show us Ramsay telling Sansa that her half-brother is at the Wall.That sets up Ramsay concluding that Sansa has gone there.Given that this is what happens in the book, too, I think that we can expect Ramsay to be around a while longer and do some real damage before he goes.

      I agree.

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    99. Cassandra: True enough, but the Myranda thing might cause enough distraction for him not to go looking for Sansa immediately.

      Well, there also is the question of: how long will it take him to realize that she and Theon are both gone? The commotion of a returning army jubilant with victory is going to mean a chaotic courtyard for a while.

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    100. Thronetender: Iccck … Ramsay made a comment about heading back to the castle because his wife missed him.I remember it, because I muttered to the TV“no she doesn’t, dude.”

      My favorite Ramsey-ese was in the S4 finale when he officially became a Bolton then turned to Theon and said,”Come, Reek. I feel like a bath.” I wish Alfie had given one of those Homer Simpson “oooooohhhhhh….”

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    101. It is gorgeous setting, and the castle a small wonder. I can’t believe how lucky we are to get some scenes shot in real castles rather than built sets or studios. Other than that I can only say that I like pink and it will be nice to think for a bit that Randyll Tarly himself sleeps in that bedroom. It would totally suit him.

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    102. Tormund’s Woman:
      I like pink and it will be nice to think for a bit that Randyll Tarly himself sleeps in that bedroom. It would totally suit him.

      Pink is the Bolton color in the books. Just saying.

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    103. Tormund’s Woman: Wimsey,
      I’m getting the distinct impression you think there’s another way?

      I have thought for a very (!very!) long time that the ending is going to come down to Jon, Daeny, Tyrion and a few others comprehending what the White Walkers, R’hllor and possibly other “forces” are, and that the “solution” will stem from that comprehension. Basically, when it is all said and done, the ways in which Jon, Daeny, Tyrion, Arya and Bran (and possibly Sansa) have evolved in common from Thrones -> Spring is going to set them up to figure this out (or to figure out key components that contribute to the overall solution).

      Now, what that solution is going to be, and exactly what the problems that those forces create (other than steamrolling humanity in the same way that two football teams steamroll ant colonies during a match): I do not know. However, there are telling aspects of the way that the main protagonists have evolved so that they are people who look at both sides (or even three sides) of a conflict, and who often think not in terms of “how does my side win?” but “how do we protect multiple sides from each other and themselves?” is going to be the key.

      I realize that this is a bit vague, but I think that we would need to read (or watch) Winter before we can have a sharper idea as to what it all means. In particular, we do not know the what/why of the White Walkers, and we do not know why R’hllor rewards humans for sacrifices. However, those might be the things that Jon, Daeny, etc., need to unravel, too.

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    104. Sean C.,

      They aren’t going to stay in the forest forever. They’ll go back to their observatory, see that the candle is lit, go check the walls, and find Theon and Sansa.

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    105. Well it certainly looks cool, and unlike anything on the series so far. Seems like S6 is going for a lot of new and interesting locales.

      B

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    106. Wimsey: Yes, because perfectly clear days never turn into stormy days in a matter of hours during a stormy season…..

      And, no, it would not be understood immediately that they had left the castle.Quite the opposite: it would be assumed immediately that they were hiding somewhere within the castle.What are Theon and Sansa going to do, jump off of the walls?

      It would not take hours.

      The place Myranda fell from is clear. And we see as Sansa heads to the place where she met Myranda that there other people nearby, and limited points of egress. It would not take long to narrow down which ways she couldn’t have gone, and there would be sentries on the walls that would see them running away from the castle in broad daylight.

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    107. Tywin of the Hill: They’ll go back to their observatory, see that the candle is lit, go check the walls, and find Theon and Sansa.

      Candles don’t stay lit that long! Moreover, why would they look at the walls? Why would they think that Theon & Sansa are there? If anything, then they would probably be looking for a way to break into the castle at first.

      The wild-card is what Bran might tell them through the trees. When you hang a god on the wall and fire it, is it Chekhovian or Deus ex Machina?

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    108. Sean C.: It would not take long to narrow down which ways she couldn’t have gone, and there would be sentries on the walls that would see them running away from the castle in broad daylight.

      In the ensuing chaos, it would take quite a while for them to look there. After all, most of the castle was preoccupied with other things. There are almost certainly many ways to get from one place to another: and Theon and Sansa both are known to know the place very well.

      Moreover, why are they running away from the castle in broad daylight? Why don’t they head to the godswood along the castle walls? Winterfell is not set in the middle of a plain, after all.

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    109. Wimsey,

      The Godswood is not along the walls, it’s in the castle. And there aren’t “many ways”. They’re walking along the castle ramparts, which are quite exposed.

        Quote  Reply

    110. Wimsey,

      Moreover, Ramsay has thousands of men. Sending people out to watch around the castle is an elementary precaution that any sensible person would take, even if he did think they were still within the castle, as it would stop them from exiting via whatever exit you think he thinks they might try to use.

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    111. Fudge! Lost my long post, just like Nymeria Queen!! Grrrr…

      Anyway: First, great GORGEOUS castle! Just the manicured pretentiousness one would expect of Randyll Tarley.

      Second, I doubt Sam and Gilly will stop in Braavos. As someone said above, all of those points have already been hit. I see either overland travel with a fireside chat (ala their trip to CB) or a sea journey with a bunk-side chat (an homage to the FPM) about Sam’s family and his hopes in journeying to Oldtown and becoming a Maester. Perhaps Baby Sam may become Toddler Sam in the process. 😉

      Third, please don’t worry about Sam’s courage! D&D went out of their way to add a scene showing Sam’s willingness to sacrifice himself for Gilly’s well-being. He may cower initially at reuniting with Randyll, but any disparaging of Gilly will have him standing up like a man! It may be futile in the end — Randyll can still beat him down, send him and Gilly away and ignore all his warnings–but he WILL show his courage!

      Fourth, it is my firm conviction that Ian McShane will be a new character, not a flashback character. I’m thinking Marwyn or EB/Meribald. What is my evidence, you ask? None but the feeling of a book reader. Marwyn the Mage is important to Sam’s knowledge-quest and the overarching good v. evil theme (or good/evil v. evil/good in GRRM’s case); or, god’s help me, I REALLY want D&D to pull off the Gravedigger reveal!!

      Here goes another posting attempt… EDIT: SUCCESS!!

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    112. Wimsey,

      I know it doesn’t make perfect sense, but neither did the Sand Snake’s original plan to kill Myrcella, nor Ramsay’s “fire-bombs” in 5×09.

      What’s Bran got to do with any of this?

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    113. Ashara D,

      I don’t really see the point in keeping the role a secret if he’s playing Marwyn. Book readers know who that is already, and it wouldn’t mean anything at all to non-readers.

      As far as travel, I expect the show will just use its reliable “ship = instantaneous travel” device to get them to Oldtown by the first episode they appear in (mostly like 602). Land travel would raise too many questions, like how they traveled through the Winterfell warzone where a bunch of other characters currently are.

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    114. Jorrn: What if Sam stops by to see his family on his way to Oldtown,

      It’s not on the way, unless they travel the whole length of the continent overland, which should take at least a year (not to mention requiring them to get past the Boltons at Moat Cailin and the brigands in the Riverlands). The only sensible way to make the trip is by ship from Eastwatch, which would bring them first to Oldtown, near the coast. Horn Hill is upriver.

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    115. Sean C.,

      Hmmm…for the same reason that we are not getting “official” confirmation of Oldtown: it’s new. Like Ramsey being “Boy” until airtime. Book readers knew who he was, but they kept it a secret. The big hope in my heart-of-hearts is that they are keeping his role as EB secret to run with the Gravedigger thing! It would be great for non-readers and readers alike if they can pull it off.

      Either way, I’m gonna love me some Ian McShane!

        Quote  Reply

    116. Wimsey: I realize that this is a bit vague, but I think that we would need to read (or watch) Winter before we can have a sharper idea as to what it all means. In particular, we do not know the what/why of the White Walkers

      It was a bit of a shock to start reading theories/remarks on various sites to the effect that the White Walkers might not be all “bad.” It seemed at first to me they were just mindless, destructive blobs. Until I realized that, unless I have this wrong, the White Walkers are humans with a “spell” on them. Sorry, couldn’t think of a more descriptive word for the process that turned the baby into a blue-eyed being. Does the spell take away all their humanity?

      The WW are Craster’s sons, aren’t they? Human, and while Craster couldn’t be called the most reasonable of beings, he and the daughters were still human. Maybe it matters somehow in the story that 99 of the WW are Craster sons. (The 100th son was baby Sam. I’m recalling the scene where Craster asked Mormont how many sons Mormont had, Craster bragging that he had 99.)

      Just trying to formulate a thought pattern here that might help me and others understand the battle that’s coming.

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    117. Sean C.: If the show was going to have Bran involved in this plot, they would have kept the Godswood scene with Theon.

      It would have been too early to do that: if they are going to do it next year, then they need to set it up next year, too. Basically, as soon as they do it, then they have to show us that Bran is behind it. (Or show us Bran doing it, and then Theon hearing it.)

      However, just as with everything else, the payoff has to be that season: and it would not have had any payoff last season.

      As for the other things, again, no: they would look in the obvious places first and the less obvious places next. Jumping off of the wall is really not obvious.

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    118. Sean C.:
      Ashara D,

      . . .
      As far as travel, I expect the show will just use its reliable “ship = instantaneous travel” device to get them to Oldtown by the first episode they appear in (mostly like 602).

      That bunk-side chat would be worth it to see Twitter explode with #FPM trending. 😀 A little something for Rygar…

        Quote  Reply

    119. Wimsey,

      I think greenseers are the ones who talk through weirwood trees (if you consider a rustling of leaves “talking”). They do can make crows talk.

        Quote  Reply

    120. Wimsey: Why don’t they head to the godswood along the castle walls?

      IIRC, it was via the Godswood that Bran, Rickon, Hodor and Osha started making a trail into the Wolfswood to fool the Ironborn, then split up with the direwolves and sneaked back into the castle to hide in the crypts. The Godswood must have some sort of postern gate that gets you outside the walls.

      And it makes absolute sense that Sansa’s first thought for a place to hide would be the Godswood, as she did when she wanted to avoid Joff’s company in King’s Landing. That would put Theon within whispering distance of Bran via the weirwood.

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    121. <blockquote cite="comment-420613"

      Fourth, it is my firm conviction that Ian McShane will be a new character, not a flashback character.

      I agree. If I remember the casting call correctly, he will interact with a main character, which is unlikely to be a flashback character.

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    122. Thronetender: It was a bit of a shock to start reading theories/remarks on various sites to the effect that the White Walkers might not be all “bad.”

      I think that they are “bad” for humans in the same way that humans are “bad” for cows or forests. I think that the bigger problem might be that they don’t see humans as something anymore than cattle. And in many ways, they do seem to be “above” humans.

      The other thing seems to be R’hllor. It’s directing people Mel against the Walkers, and it might be leading to directing Daeny against them. However, this thing gets off on human sacrifice. Moreover, it seems to prefer sacrifice from people of potential power: that is, it might be targeting human leadership. That could be as destructive for human societies as our selectively killing elephant matriarchs is to elephant societies.

      I cannot even guess exactly where all of this is leading, but my bet is that in the end Jon, Daeny, etc., are going to face a lot of unpleasant alternatives and somehow have to find the least egregious one amongst them.

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    123. Wimsey: Thronetender: It was a bit of a shock to start reading theories/remarks on various sites to the effect that the White Walkers might not be all “bad.”

      The Reddit theory that many fans source (and many believe is the one that GRRM was referring to when he said someone on the internet figured out the ending), definitely puts the WW and everything we know about the story into a different light. Though, to be honest, after Hardhome, it’ll be interesting to see how they get there, if, indeed, that is where they’re going.

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    124. Wimsey: What are Theon and Sansa going to do, jump off of the walls?

      Granted, we are told that there hasn’t been a real winter in a long time, as of the outset of our story; I can’t recall whether there had been one in Sansa’s lifetime. But it seems likely to me that in a year of deep snow accumulation, it would have been a popular sport for daring, boisterous children of the North to leap off walls into snowdrifts – probably not ladylike Sansa, but maybe Theon in his early years at Winterfell? If this were true, the Boltons would certainly be familiar with the practice.

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    125. Luka Nieto:
      Firannion,

      No need to repaint, I imagine (they wouldn’t let them, either.) Lightning does wonders!

      Now there’s no need to involve Dondarrion in all this.. 😉

      Seriously though – what you said (or rather what you meant). Failing that, the use of some filters on the cameras would help.

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    126. Ashara D,

      Ramsay’s identity was kept a secret because it was a mystery within the show itself. The show has not otherwise had a problem announcing the identities of new actors, even when they aren’t familiar to the audience yet. Euron is every bit as new as Marwyn, for instance, but they had no problem letting that out.

      Wimsey,

      It does have a payoff. It’s a key moment in Theon’s character arc — and should have been retained on those grounds alone — that also sets up Bran’s abilities. Teasing the audience with mysteries of that sort are a great way to generate interest, and if the show was planning to have Bran be a vital part of what happened next in this plot, it makes all the sense in the world to include in there too.

      I think his involvement is rather unlikely for other reasons, though; giving Sansa a quasi-omniscient guide dramatically decreases her own role.

      Firannion,

      In the books, the Wolfswood runs near to the castle (but not right up to the walls). In the show it is depicted as a wide open space.

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    127. Firannion: Granted, we are told that there hasn’t been a real winter in a long time, as of the outset of our story; I can’t recall whether there had been one in Sansa’s lifetime.

      There had been a short winter, if I recall correctly. Not much longer than our own winters.

        Quote  Reply

    128. Thronetender,

      Not all WW are Craster’s sons. The black door beneath the Nightfort probably was used to supply them with bastard childs until Queen Alysanne closed the castle and abolished the lord’s right to the first night and thus diminishing the number of unwanted babies.
      Concerning the ww, I’d say they are the result of a Cotf experiment searching to stop the first men invasion that backfired spectacularly.
      The ww have nothing to do with gods (Great Other, R’hllor or whatever, they may not even exist).

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    129. Nymeria Warrior Queen: I wonder if Sam will mention anything to his father about Valyrian steel?

      I agree with those saying that Randyll will very likely scoff at Sam’s reports of White Walkers. But if the ‘favored brother’ isn’t just a cardboard bully character, there’s another way to spin this episode: Dickon’s imagination is fired by the prospect of heroic exploits, tells Sam privately that he believes him and wants to know more about the WW, ultimately takes Heartsbane and splits for the Wall without Daddy’s permission – probably after Sam heads back to the Citadel. Or maybe he accompanies Sam (with or without Gilly and the baby) as far as Oldtown, ostensibly to protect him/them, then hops a ship heading north.

      Bonus: When Dickon doesn’t come back and Randyll notices that the sword is missing, he heads for Oldtown in a fury – just in time to be on hand to fight Euron’s crew when they arrive. Come to think of it, Dickon’s boat would likely run smack into the southbound Ironborn fleet en route, so he might get to slice up some pirates with Valyrian steel during the Shield Islands battle. But so far we’ve seen no indications that Dickon will have more than a scene or two, so I’m probably just donning tinfoil again. Not much else to do in the off-season but ask, ‘What if?’

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    130. Scene that could potentially take place in the pink bedroom: After a stormy dinner, Mama Tarly comes to coo over the baby whom she thinks is her first grandchild. Gilly admits that Baby Sam’s biological father is her own father, who imprisoned her for her whole life and raped her repeatedly. Then she tells how Sam rescued her. Mama Tarly gets all teary-eyed and swears that Gilly and the baby will always have a safe refuge at Horn Hill, no matter what Randyll has to say about it. She could be kind of a Molly Weasley character, to create another link with the Potterverse!

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    131. Ana:
      OH MY GOSH this news makes me very excited–I live less than ten minutes from Castell de Santa Florentina.

      Lucky!! PLease go there during filming, if you are able to, and take a few pics – we need to see Randyll in action! 😀

      Cassandra: If I remember the casting call correctly, he will interact with a main character, which is unlikely to be a flashback character.

      No, that was the casting call for Randyll Tarly.
      Ian McShane’s casting announcement merely said that his character would have “a relatively small amount of screen-time during the season” but was of “key importance”.
      http://www.ew.com/article/2015/08/01/game-thrones-ian-mcshane

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    132. Sean C.:
      Ashara D,

      Ramsay’s identity was kept a secret because it was a mystery within the show itself.The show has not otherwise had a problem announcing the identities of new actors, even when they aren’t familiar to the audience yet.Euron is every bit as new as Marwyn, for instance, but they had no problem letting that out.

      Good point about Marwyn…but fodder for the fire in my heart! They’d need to keep EB quiet to keep out the Gravedigger plot! [adjusts tinfoil hat] I just don’t see him as Randyll Tarly or a flashback character. But that’s why they call it speculation…

      Firannion,

      Nice! I like it. Tugs at the heart strings.

      Kay,

      Ha! Marwyn is key! [adds antennae to tinfoil hat]

        Quote  Reply

    133. Firannion,

      I have no expectation Randyll will have much time for anything Sam says, and that would certainly extend to any mention of Wights and White Walkers. Furthermore, I would think, if it was mentioned Sam had slain a White Walker, Randyll’s response would be as close as Randyll could get to a guffaw, both dismissive and condescending. That does not mean, however, Sam won’t attempt to discuss Valyrian steel, which was what I was wondering. I’m guessing he will at least try.

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    134. Just saying: Randyll Tarly was described as a “very good part this season”.
      Ian McShane’s role was described as “brief (but important)”.

      Ian McShane is not Randyll Tarly.

        Quote  Reply

    135. Nymeria Warrior Queen: if it was mentioned Sam had slain a White Walker, Randyll’s response would be as close as Randyll could get to a guffaw, both dismissive and condescending.

      I quite agree – but, although Sam may be reluctant to bring up the subject, Gilly assuredly will not be. Sam is her hero and she will certainly want his family to know it. Quite the stubborn lass she is.

        Quote  Reply

    136. Firannion,

      Disagree, Gilly will always keep Sam jr.’s secret, to her Sam is the true father. metaphorically.

      Just realized, we should know which actor was cast as Randyl Tarly no later than next week, either by spy reports or announcement along with Sam’s sister and mother. Well we know who will play Lady Tarly.

        Quote  Reply

    137. I’ve come to realize that Sansa is probably preggars, Ramsey has been sex/raping her for weeks, and Sansa more than likely doesn’t know the signs.

        Quote  Reply

    138. Sean C.:
      Wimsey,
      Sean, I am not so sure Ramsay is “any sensible person”. Besides, his thousands of men were out with him battling Stannis. They rode into the castle in triumph, as Wimsey pointed out. So surely only after the chaos subsided (Myranda and the elation of victory and after the absence of Sansa and Theon is discovered) can any coherent action be taken. You say someone must have seen them jumping from the wall. I say it is possible nobody actually witnessed that. I do not believe that they will be recaptured in the show, so I am trying to figure out why it is possible for them to escape. And then of course comes the show next year, and we are all proved to be idiots!

      Moreover, Ramsay has thousands of men.Sending people out to watch around the castle is an elementary precaution that any sensible person would take, even if he did think they were still within the castle, as it would stop them from exiting via whatever exit you think he thinks they might try to use.

        Quote  Reply

    139. Luka Nieto,

      Just my pet desire that Amanda Peet will play her, a shout out to the show runner’s and it’d be fun for fans too. She is a part of the GoT family already, so Lady Tarly would be a good role, she’s the right age considering Sam’s like 24-25 and it’s not to big of a role.
      More than likely Mr Bradley and Ms. Murray have hung out with Amanda on more than one occasion considering who her husband is.

        Quote  Reply

    140. tyjon: Just my pet desire that Amanda Peet will play her

      Amanda Peet’s long face doesn’t work for me as Lady Tarly. Sam had to have inherited his round face from somebody.

        Quote  Reply

    141. tyjon,

      For some reason I imagined Melessa Tarly as more of a Mrs. Weasley kind of character, both physically and in terms of her character. Someone more “homey”, more similar to Sam, to make a stark contrast with Randyll. It seems wrong to say someone is “too beautiful” for a role, but I think that’s basically what I’m saying.

        Quote  Reply

    142. Kay: Lucky!! PLease go there during filming, if you are able to, and take a few pics – we need to see Randyll in action! ?

      No, that was the casting call for Randyll Tarly.
      Ian McShane’s casting announcement merely said that his character would have “a relatively small amount of screen-time during the season” but was of “key importance”.
      http://www.ew.com/article/2015/08/01/game-thrones-ian-mcshane

      You are right. I have somehow convinced myself that Ian McShane will be Randyll Tarley. Wishful thinking?

        Quote  Reply

    143. Firannion,

      Yes, I have little doubt if Sam won’t breach the subject with his father, Gilly will. She’s most certainly quite spirited, and I love that about her.

        Quote  Reply

    144. tyjon,

      tyjon: I’ve come to realize that Sansa is probably preggars, Ramsey has been sex/raping her for weeks, and Sansa more than likely doesn’t know the signs.

      Doesn’t necessarily mean anything. Lots of women have sex regularly for decades and never get pregnant.

      In any case, I hope you’re wrong – and not only because I’m tired of Sansa always being a victim, either. In the books, it is possible to read between the lines and infer that Ramsay is actually impotent. That might partially explain his compulsion to hurt and dominate: a desire to assert power that he secretly fears he lacks. It’s only vaguely hinted, but I prefer to believe it, just because I loathe the character so much.

        Quote  Reply

    145. Ashara D: Kay,

      Ha! Marwyn is key! [adds antennae to tinfoil hat]

      Hope you’re right. I would really like the events unfolding at the Citadel to take the whole Game to a hitherto unsuspected new meta-level of very sophisticated, long-term plotting to manipulate the politics and fates of both continents. Whether the Maesters are behind it, or the Faceless Men or the Iron Bank or the Illuminati or the Bene Gesserit or the mice or someone else, I don’t much care. I just want to see the looks on the faces of people like Littlefinger when the reveal comes that their ‘long game’ has actually been a flash in the pan compared to the Big Picture. And Marwyn seems to be the guy who has been skulking around in all sorts of mysterious corners of the world for decades doing who-knows-what, apparently involving deep and forbidden areas of magic. I’m drooling to find out exactly what he has been up to.

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    146. I am so happy to have found this site. People on this site are doing a brilliant job! It’s much easier to wait for the show and the never coming book now.

      I really can’t wait to see Sam’s and his father’s interactions. Another dysfunctional family dinner to come!

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    147. Firannion: It’s not on the way, unless they travel the whole length of the continent overland, which should take at least a year (not to mention requiring them to get past the Boltons at Moat Cailin and the brigands in the Riverlands).

      That trip from Bravos also seems like a looooong way to go. If you look at a map, a trip from Bravos almost looks comparable to sailing from Great Britain around the tip of South America and north along the coast. In Season 1, didn’t Cersei say they traveled 2 months from KL to get to Winterfell, with their whole entourage? Sam & Gilly have one light wagon. Granted, they would have to be very careful, but I could see them making it overland. They can stop in and see Hot Pie on the way. Everybody stops at Hot Pie’s inn.

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    148. tyjon: I’ve come to realize that Sansa is probably preggars, Ramsey has been sex/raping her for weeks, and Sansa more than likely doesn’t know the signs

      Oh joy, another Bolton. It can have play dates with Walda’s boy. Maybe she will be lucky, and the jump from the wall will cause her to miscarry, but not before she reaches safety in some peasant’s hovel. Ye gods, if Ramsay doesn’t find her, think what he will do to the townspeople in his search.

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    149. Thronetender: They can stop in and see Hot Pie on the way. Everybody stops at Hot Pie’s inn.

      If Hot Pie has finally discovered the secret recipe for Frey Pie, it would definitely be worth going thousands of miles? leagues? out of your way to make a stop there. Could probably get a ‘South of the Border’ bumper sticker for your wagon on the way out, too. Next stop: Stuckey’s – just follow the billboards every 10 miles.

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    150. Wimsey,

      Patrick R Warning – speculation with possible unintended spoilers
      I agree that Bran is the key to Sansa’s survival. Let’s say Bran unleashes Nymerias super wolf pack,wolverines, birds of prey, bears and all the other deadly creatures in the North joined into a creature army of thousands against Ramsay. In addition, let’s say these creatures then attack Ramsay’s search party in a concerted and ongoing assault of sneak attacks where the beasts attack and then dissappear into the forrest before weapons can be used. In that case, Ramsay will lose his beloved murder dog pack, he will lose all his horses, he will lose all of his men and then he will lose his life. Ramsay will become the hunted and no longer the hunter before he dies. Sansa will then escape to the safety of the Northern Lords. Bran could even lead Sansa’s horses to safety. The possible scene of A Stark approaching a Nothern Lord’s castle with an honor guard of hundreds of direwolves and then asking the question “My Lord Does the North still remember” could be among the most memorable scenes of the series. This is only an empty guess. For Me and for perhaps other watchers , the most appropriate death for the vile Ramsay Bolton would be; to be ripped to shreds by Nymerias wolf pack, to mirror all the deaths he has inflicted on so many other people. This may only be wishful thinking but it seems to bring a balance & symmetry to the story that just seems right.

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    151. Patrick R: a creature army of thousands against Ramsay

      Though I agree about the poetic justice in Ramsay the hunter becoming the hunted, my first reaction to the ‘creature army’ concept is…oooh, nooo, too Narnia-ish.

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    152. Thronetender,

      Have you met Little Finger? If nothing worth showing is going to happen along the way, they’re not going to show the journey. I don’t think they’ll take Sam and Gilly off screen for half a season just because they’re traveling, either. It sounds like Sam is going to have a pretty full plate this season with them casting his family and the on-location filming for Old Town and Horn Hill.

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    153. Patrick R: Sorry, I don’t know Narnia,

      In the Chronicles of Narnia there are loads of talking animals who engage in big battles against the baddies. Sometimes they are a bit overly twee and cutesy, even though they can be formidable opponents. It would be hard for me not to have that association pop into my head if GRRM had Bran mobilize the furry troops, other than the wolf pack.

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    154. Sean C.: It’s a key moment in Theon’s character arc — and should have been retained on those grounds alone

      One, no it wasn’t a key moment in Theon’s arc: it was actually a pretty random one that had zero influence on what he did next. (Had that been what got him to agree to help free, then it might have been: but in the book he was forced to help, and on the show Sansa cajoled him into doing it.) Two, even if this had been some “scales falling from his eyes” moment, then it would not be adequate payoff for something so vague. Moreover, it really had to be Sansa who pushed Theon along: it was her story line, and Theon was basically a supporting character in that story line.

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    155. Patrick R: speculation with possible unintended spoilers

      Heh, correct speculation is not a spoiler: it’s a combination of good thinking and lucky guessing!

      However, I agree that this sort of thing could be used. It actually does not have to be overly “Narnia” either: subtle things like a wolf pack disrupting horses, deer running over their tracks, small shifts in weather, etc., would work just fine. After all, Bran will be (nearly) as opposed to the Boltons as he will be to the White Walkers. I think that Davos might have set up this last year!

      This stuff is wide open: we really have no idea what the Tree Gods can do (other than whisper vaguely at people); moreover, even if the books do this, then the show has to make Bran’s power visually appreciable.

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    156. Firannion,

      Finally…a kindred spirit! [passes you a tinfoil hat] He’s studied the “dark arts” with Mirri Maz Dur; knows about the obsidian candles; he may even have knowledge of dragons; and there is a FM plant AND Sarella in his inner circle! All roads lead to Marwyn. Plus, his description in the books fits Ian McShane–a “bulldog” of a man.
      #McShaneisMarwyn

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    157. Ashara D: He’s studied the “dark arts” with Mirri Maz Dur; knows about the obsidian candles; he may even have knowledge of dragons; and there is a FM plant AND Sarella in his inner circle!

      Not to mention that the FM (or their client) appear to be after a book of Marwyn’s collected magical knowledge from all over Planetos that he keeps locked up in the recesses of the Citadel. Euron might be after it too, since the “dragonhorn” came without an instruction manual. That grimoire may turn out to be the Big MacGuffin of the entire series.

      Glad you brought up Sarella/Alleras. She is the only one of the Sand Snakes who interests me.

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    158. Wimsey,

      Theon’s open confession and his wish to die as himself (which the writers actually swiped a line from and gave to Sansa instead), and actually getting a response, is a huge moment in the story. And Sansa in the show does not “cajole” Theon into anything; her one attempt at outreach doesn’t get a result, at which point she gives up. Theon makes the choice to save her, prompted by Myranda’s threats.

        Quote  Reply

    159. This will no doubt serve as a introduction to “the Randyll” via an established character (Sam and Gilly)

      Then later on we’ll no doubt have Olenna or Mace turning up telling him to take command of the Tyrell forces to go into KL and slaughter all of the sparrows

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    160. Luka Nieto,

      Bruh, that bedroom looks like something outta Alice in wonderland. Lighting will not be enough to make a difference. U can use football stadium lights it won’t matter.

        Quote  Reply

    161. Chad Brick: To be fair, a cripple and a heavily-dressed young woman who has spent her entire life lolly-gagging around castles magically teleporting outside the range of a skilled hunter, his hounds, and thousands of mounted soldiers is going to be rather silly as well. In reality, they’d be caught before they made it a mile. This along with Dany’s magic Ring of Daario Summoning is just one of the little plot holes we will have to ignore in the early part of the season. Fortunately they should not have any add-on butterfly wing effects down the road.

      Not to mention that you can’t teleport when enemies are nearby 😉

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    162. Pigeon:
      Beautiful. It always blows my tiny mind that people lived in massive structures like these. Completely different world.

      It wasn’t just a family and their servants, though. Many of these massive old castles were like mini towns/villages. Even the palaces that the British royal family currently live in are divided into apartments. I believe the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge just had a multi-million pound refurb of theirs, in addition to their country home revamp. I heard they had a brand new luxury kitchen replaced! Now that’s how the other half live! Can’t imagine having that much money.

        Quote  Reply

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