We have a fresh batch of major- and we do mean giant-sized – spoilers out of Saintfield for you today, but first, let’s check in with a few other Game of Thrones news updates!
Larne Times has new photos today of the Game of Thrones set in progress at Magheramorne Quarry. We first heard of the new set being built in Northern Ireland last week, when we received a set of pics from a WotW reader.
The new images show they’ve done a bit of work on the set standing in the lot, and there are vehicles around the buildings used as the Castle Black set. No actor sightings have been reported yet in the area. (As of Sunday night, Kit Harington was in London performing at The Children’s Monologues with Alfie Allen and Rose Leslie. For those still invested in HairWatch- yes, Kit looks the same, unshorn and unshaven.)
Larne Times reports that the location is “currently a hive of activity, with large white tents and vans travelling back and forth to prepare the location among the old quarry buildings for filming.” They note that “workers in cherry pickers” were seen “painting the quarryside white to emulate the icy backdrop of The Wall.”
Quick casting note:
Kevin Eldon‘s Spotlight CV has been updated to confirm his character is “Play Ned,” which we suspected after photos of the actor in costume surfaced in September. The British comedian was identified by Game of Thrones fans but never confirmed as a cast member until now.
M A J O R S P O I L E R S B E Y O N D
T H I S P O I N T!
There’s new information about season 6 filming, particularly the big scene that everyone is discussing these days: the battle at Saintfield. Whether you call it the battle of six armies, the battle of the bastards, Snow Bowl, or some other term of your own making, this fight is huge. There have been a lot of rumors going around, and we can now confirm some new info.
We can confirm that Sansa Stark will be there, and that Sophie Turner was seen filming alongside the battlefield. The battlefield has a few Starks, actually, if you count Jon.
Contrary to some rumors, our source did not see any White Walker performers filming or any sign that there would be White White action in the battle.
The battle will have real casualties and we’ll be saying goodbye to some characters.
Ramsay Bolton will be displaying at least two bodies upside down on X-crosses, burning during battle. They are known characters.
There will be more giant action- we mean an actual giant. Possibly Wun Wun, but who can tell when he’s not on set! Attack scenes involving a giant (that wasn’t there, of course) were filmed. The good old ball-on-the-stick was standing in for the giant on set.
The battle sounds like it will be incredible and I’m unbelievably excited for season 6 already!
If Edd dies we make empty threats about rioting.
Hodor!
Damn, I had a feeling that before Ramsey finally got taken out he’d kill at least one more character that everyone likes. Little bastard lol.
Yyyyyeeeeessssd!
Seriously I was 99% sure we’d get a Stark reunion but its great to have it confirmed and to know Sansa will be helping rally the troops. Sounds like Rickon is there as well.
I really REALLY want the Boltons to be some of the casualties and I really hope Ed isn’t one.
Soooooo…. Who are the two characters?
I am afraid *_*
WHOA! Big news!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So hyped!!!! But I’m also a bit scared.
Well, that’s sweet. Always good to hear about the headcount going down! Deathpool?
e: also, are these known characters *from past seasons* or are these characters known *from the books* who will only appear on the show this season?
Well call me Jessie Spanno because I’m so excited, and so scared!
What veil threats? If Edd dies im losing it. But oh man, whos on those X crosses? Has to be someone that matters to the starks right?
What if it’s Roose and Fat Walda? Have to assume something has happened to Roose since it seems Ramsay is leading this battle.
It will be Stannis and Roose … sigh, back to the books I go!
So, who might die? Seems like the options are Jon, Sansa, Edd, Mel, Davos, Tormund, Theon, Ramsay, Roose, Myrander, Littlefinger, and Royce (assuming the Vale army is in this battle; was that confirmed?).
I’d assume Jon is safe, and probably Sansa too, but I wouldn’t be surprised by any of the others dying (and I fully expect the Boltons to die).
BeautyBrinne,
It better be Roose and Walda. Anyone else would not be acceptable.
I fear for Brienne and Pod.
Have only glossed over the major spoilers, won’t comment much here.
But this is setting up to be absolutly amazing!!
oh and also…
SNOW BOWL GET FREAKIN HYPED!!!!!!
(What have I become…)
edd , davos e talvez tormund
RIP Sansa. Felt in Season 5 the amount of screentime she received was blowing up and as of late we know what that means for characters.
Wasn’t a fan of the changes either, but because of them I feel it may indicate she is expendable and not locked in for the endgame.
In particular, her arc was about southern princes and then returning home, and now it’s to find her brothers…the last vestige of her family. Her story potential is at its end.
I’m now quite worried for the likes of Tormund and Davos.
Please. No. I don’t want Sansa to die.
Stannis for one of the burning bodies? Ramsey could have found the body. Probably not sadistic enough for that particular bastard since Stannis was already dead, but it would be demoralizing for Jon’s side, especially if Mel and Davos are around to see it.
If Edd dies, we whinge and gripe until everyone kills themselves from boredom.
winnie,
Yeah, for some reason I’m more nervous for Tormund than anyone. 🙁
Does he, in fact, know what Stannis looks like? Daft question, but they’ve only confronted each other in the heat of combat.
!!!!?!?!?!!!!!?!?!?!?!!!!
Rickon and Osha
Get the horrible feeling it’ss be Osha and Rickon whom Ramsay displays which would be annoying as they’re not really had their moment.
Not sure who else he’d get hold of. The Greyjoys are back at the Iron Islands, not sure why any of the NW would leave Jon’s army or the wall. Perhaps Roose and Fat Walda? Is there anyone else up there still?!
Melisandre? Davos?
Is it? What about the possibility of her killing Littlefinger?
I wouldn’t write her off yet. That seems like dodgy storytelling to me.
I’m wondering if it’s not Davos and Mel. They’ll probably stick close to Jesus- I mean Jon, and Ramsay is not an idiot. He knows what kind of god R’hllor is. I wouldn’t put it past him to burn those two just to be a dickpimple.
Now if you’ll excuse me I need to go to some serious deep-breathing exercises.
Dornish Pastie,
He was leading the army. It’s easy enough for television logic and shorthand to say Ramsey remembered the guy at the head of the army.
Wow the spoilers about Sansa at Saintfield were true then !!!
So I guess the spoilers about Rickon’s death are also true…
But two bodies ???! Who is the second one ?
Davos ?! No way
Osha ? …
It makes me nervous.. . I hope it’s not Davos
Arya should’ve been the one to meet Jon.
There’s no way Sansa is dying in the battle, the foreshadowing in S4 has her killing someone, and I don’t see her doing that before the battle. (COUGH COUGH LF)
Plus:
Tyrion: You may outlive us all. (to Sansa)
Sansa isn’t dying here guys. If ever.
Exit81,
I agree using Stannis’ body would be a useful idea for Ramsey. Who cares how he really died, we can just pretend like we did it, and here’s the proof. Look upon it and dread…
My thought on the other body– possibly Theon? Maybe he and Sansa are about to get caught, and he sacrifices himself so she can escape? I don’t think it would be Brienne (and hopefully by extension Pod), as her arc has more or less been confirmed to intersect with Jaime’s in the Riverlands.
Also starting a prayer circle for Walda and Walda Jr. She’s a Frey but she’s not involved in this.
Thank you WOTW!
This sound really really bad….. Walda? Rickon?
Maybe the spoilers for Vale army are really true since Sophie shoot there but not all days, maybe she is the Deus Ex machina.
More Starks are there… Bran can’t be, the same with Arya….
So It’s Sansa and Rickon?? It will be sooo sad if Rickon dies… a 9th episode with Stark death again…. 🙁
I also have a feeling one of the burning bodies will be Stannis. If it is, then at very least we finally get a solid answer regarding him.
Edd?! As in Dullerous Edd?
I’ve been trying to avoid spoilers for a couple of weeks (unsuccessfully obviously) and there’s a character I am unaware of now?!
BeautyBrinne,
I got bit distracted laughing at “dickpimple” (I may have to borrow that term, if you don’t mind. Of course, I’d give you credit 🙂 ), but I honestly wouldn’t mind if Mel was one of the bodies.
If it’s happening during the battle, I doubt it’s Stannis. That would be before. Also, why would Ramsay display Roose and Walda? Why would any of the Northerners/Wildlings care about them, aside from being glad that they’re dead? That would have no tactical or demoralizing effect on anyone. Even Edd wouldn’t have that effect to anyone except the audience and a few Night’s Watch members (who I suspect, most will be killed when Jon comes back), so he’s probably safe.
Tormund is a possibility, but only if Ramsay knows he’s a Wildling “leader.” If Ramsay doesn’t know that, he wouldn’t have a reason to display him.
That kind of just leaves some Northern lords. We’ll know the characters/we already know them, they’re important to Ramsay, the other characters, and the audience. They’ll leave an effect on everyone involved.
Actually on the second thought one of the bodies might be Littlefinger – since its known he’ll be in Winterfell at some point. Which means unless he arrives in Episode 10 – he’ll be visiting the Boltons.
Nahhhh …they wouldn’t kill Grenn and Pyp AND Edd … would they? Nah … but then, who? There is no one on the Stark/Jon side I could bear see being killed.
All I can say is hot damn.
I can’t wait for this battle.
Me, too, but wouldn’t Tormund wipe the floor with that little shit Ramsey?
Sooo… Does WotW not know who the two dead characters are or is it choosing not to reveal them?
I’d think Brienne and Pod, right place, right time, right number. But isn’t Brienne in RL in a later scene? Or am I not remembering that right? Then I think, Sansa and Theon, right place, right time, right number. But don’t we know Theon’s with the Ironborn later? Osha and Rickon are also a scary number, and maybe Bolton’s have their keepers under the thumb? Roose and Walda would be a big jump, there would need to be some real development leading to that. Such a tease to give us a number and stop there.
Any cannibals riding unicorns? Fucking D&D probably going to screw that up too.
Sue, please post all the spoilers. If you know who dies, please tell us under several huge spoiler warnings.
Hodor?
The bodies could be this season’s Lords Karstark and Umber, for all we know…
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Feel free! I doubt I’m the first to think of it 😉
Well that’s exciting! It’s nice to know that a Jon-Sansa reunion wasn’t just wishful thinking and that it will in fact happen. The return of Wun Wun (who else would it be) is almost as exciting.
The other news, though, are more disturbing…
I am now also pretty sure that Jaime will be in Winterfell by the end of the season. Seems crazy, I know, but Sue and Javi from L7R mentioned Jaime’s jetpack and that he wouldn’t be in Riverrun by the end of the season; we know the Siege is in episode 7 or 8 (probably 7, according to Javi); and we know Brienne wil go to the Riverlands and meet Jaime. I think that, plotwise, Sansa will take the role of LSH, insofar as she will order Brienne to go look for Jaime and bring him back to her up North in order to bring him to justice. They will leave the Riverlands together in episode 7 or 8, maybe after Brienne gives the same excuse as in the books, that she has found Sansa, though in this case it wouldn’t be a lie, technically; and in episode 10, after not seeing Jaime and Brienne for one or two episodes, we’ll see them arrive at Winterfell, and then… Whatever happens with them and LSH in TWOW will happen with them and Sansa.
Those are my two big bets of today. Rickon and Shaggydog will be killed by Ramsay and displayed in order to demoralize the Stark loyalists (at which point I assume Jon will do a nice speech so that they fight for Sansa instead); and Brienne will take Jaime to Winterfell, where Sansa will do whatever it is that LSH will do in the books.
Is one of the bodies Rickon’s…?
Davos and Sansa are safe from being the corpses, since they’ve both been spotted either filming the battle or at the battle wrap party. Brienne and Pod are likely safe as well, given what we know about the Riverrun (6×07/6×08) filming. I also doubt Ramsay would burn Roose and Fat Walda to intimidate his foes. He’d probably burn someone friendly to the Stark cause to fuck with them, much like he flayed that nice old lady willing to help Sansa.
Given all this, that narrows it down to…not a lot of people. Rickon and Osha sound likely.
The other thing to remember is that it sounds like in addition to the “known characters” being burned, known characters also die during the battle; there are “real” casualties (as opposed to the copout at Hardhome where only Karsi and that Thenn guy died). So Davos, Sansa, Tormund, etc. could be spared from being the victims on the crosses, only to succumb in the battle itself.
…With all that said, if Rickon does die, I doubt Sansa’s going to die in the battle. That would make Jon romping to a position of Stark leadership far too easy. Also, that bit with Littlefinger and Sansa filming at Winterfell could very well be from 6×10, in the aftermath of the battle, as I doubt Sansa would go anywhere near Winterfell if Ramsay was still drawing breath.
It has been hard to keep up with all of this incredible news…
Meh. I may be in the minority here but I’m completely done with Ramsay. I’d much rather see more of Roose (and of Michael McElhatton). Early on, I appreciated Iwan’s performance but, at this point, I find it tiresome. I was hoping that he and his 20 good men would be eliminated early on in this battle. Guess not. Instead, he sticks around to maim and torture for a few more episodes.
Hoping that it isn’t Davos or Sansa. Where is Melisandre at this point?
Is this episode 9?
Unless Brienne, for some reason, convinces Jaime to go North and it’s Jaime and Brienne being burned? But I don’t think that fits with either’s narrative arc.
It’s gotta be somebody noteworthy the North would care about, otherwise there would be no point to Ramsay displaying them. This makes me think a Northern Lord. Perhaps one of the bodies is a new character that will be known to us by episode 9.
If there are bodies burning on the X during the battle (which sounds awesome, btw!), they’d have to be dead before the battle. They’re not going to string someone up during the fight. It’ll be Stannis and one other – Brienne, Pod or Mel? If it’s Tormund or Edd that gets schmeisted in the battle, I’ll voice another Jon-like empty threat like “I quit!!!”
Bott,
I think Sue knows. But many people would be enraged if they would ever choose to reveal the identity of these two characters. That’s simply too big. But they won’t, for that reason.
TheTouchOfFroste,
I agree with you and there was some talk that the Umbers would be joining the Boltons and they are the ones that were suppose to be keeping Rickon safe. 🙁 I think one will be a Stark but not two (although he/she) will be a friend or ally of the Starks. I hate Ramsay and I hope he gets his due.
Maggie,
Yeah I also think the Vale army arriving in the end is true now.
As for a potential Sansa’s death , the reddit guy who claimed to be an extra explicitly said about a Stark death : “how could Sansa save everyone at the end if she die during the battle ?”
So I think she‘s safe.
The guy hasn’ been proven wrong yet…
Now for poor Rickon, it looks bad…
It’s not Stannis. Brienne killed him, and left his body to rot somewhere. Ramsay wouldn’t care about burning a dead Stannis.
Right now, I’m leading towards either:
1. Rickon and Osha. (Would tie into the tendency of GoT to provide us with gut punches, and set up a conflict between Sansa Stark and Jon Snow/Stark over who the true heir of Winterfell is).
OR
2. Davos and Mel. (Without Stannis, their role is kinda superfluous. And it’d be gut-wrenching for Jon Snow/Stark.)
My money is on #1, though. I have a feeling that Mel will either die resurrecting Jon (and thus see events such as walking on Winterfell and meeting Arya through Jon’s eyes), or she’ll be there in person for all of these events. And it would be just like GoT to finally give us the long-awaited Stark reunion, only to mercilessly slaughter one (or more) of them.
Got to have those shocking deaths. Goodbye Rickon and Osha. Surely D&D wouldn’t kill off Starks that are slated to live in the books, even one as minor as Rickon? I guess WIC may be right and
I would hate this.
Brienne and Pod hanging out there with Ramsay !
Well, I hope… all other possibilities scare me !
Safe: Jon, Sansa (foreshadowed to kill LF, wouldn’t be killed in battle) Mel (shes her self walking the walls of WF, will see Arya again)
Not safe: Everyone else lol
Off-Topic Otto,
Brienne and Pod are in the Riverlands by then, so no, it won’t be them. I’d say there really are three options:
2. Osha and Rickon
3. Davos and Tormund/Edd
Could the known bodies be Umber and Karstark? At ep 9 point we will know them pretty well and if they double cross Ramsey it’s possible. I don’t see them play the long game.
Lyanna_Targaryen,
Whoa momma, put down the caffeine.
All I know is, if I could, I would high-five the shit out of who the hell ends up killing Ramsey (I’m assuming SOMEONE does by the end!!)
I am bit worried about Rickon (that is an understatement). I mean we all can quess who will win that battle, but there have to be cost right? If certain someone just defeat bad guys during epic battle without loses, it would be boring. And a season without a proper heartbreak wouldnt be very GoT-like.
I wonder how they’ll film the known characters being burned. Will they just do up dummies in identifiable clothing and set them on fire, or will they contrive some way for the actors themselves to go up on the crosses and CGI in the flames a la Shireen?
The reason I ask is that I was assuming Davos was safe, since Liam was at the wrap party, but if Liam was needed at the battle site to film Davos up on the cross, that ends that theory.
The spoiler about “saying goodbye to some characters” during the battle proper makes me wonder who’s expendable. Ramsay’s a goner, clearly, but who else? Tormund? Davos? Mel (although to be fair Mel saw herself walking the walls of Winterfell)? Lord Karstark and Smalljon, maybe. I’d say Jon’s safe.
I’m surprised Sansa’s on the battlefield, unless we’re getting a Queen Elizabeth rallies the troops moment.
Can’t even process the battle spoilers and don’t wanna think about who it could be that gets burned 🙁
What I am confused about is what is the new set piece? Is it the Red walls (presumably the Red Keep) or the old, mossy construction in the background? Aren’t those just disused buildings from the quarry? They look really dilapidated. They’re not in the previous shots to confirm but that’s because of the angle those pics were taken from…
I may have missed the notice but does anyone know when s06 will air? Uhg, the wait is killer!
Narratively, having Theon be one of those on the crosses makes some sense. Especially if most of what remains of the Stark family is looking on, and his recapture was somehow sacrificial. Maybe his death resulting from some final act of defiance to Ramsay. Would be a fitting way to end his story.
It’s obvious the “known” characters will be:
–resurrected Ned Stark
–Boromir
–006 from “Goldeneye”
–Sean Miller from Patriot Games
Hmm, Im hoping its two minor characters that end up on Ramsay’s crosses…otherwise im sure the spoiler would’ve read two major characters rather than just saying they are “known”. This might be bad news for Edd??? 🙁 Shedding tears.
As long as its NOT Jon, Sansa, Davos …..although my heart might not be able to bear a Rickon and Osha death either! Damn you Ramsay! A bastard truly worthy of his name. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
The bodies have to be
Yay! Sophie! I was worried about her being killed to resurrect Jon. I’m expecting some kind of Elizabeth I speech this year, given what Liam said about “a hell of an arc”.
The bodies of Stannis and Selyse, in my opinion. We know them. They’re burning to create tension and lower morale. ‘Look, I killed a King and Queen.’
The other option is Mel and one other. Didn’t Mel said she’d be in Winterfell high up? Yeah, honey, hanging upside down on the battlements, you will.
Put me down for Rickon and Osha and/or Shaggydog. It would easily clean up the split loyalty of the north between Jon & Rickon. Don’t forget that a shaggy dog story is In its original sense, a shaggy dog story is an extremely long-winded anecdote characterized by extensive narration of typically irrelevant incidents and terminated by an anticlimax or a pointless punchline. Shaggy dog stories play upon the audience’s preconceptions of joke-telling.
Mister Stoneheart,
Ooo I like your twist on that particular vision.
It will have been many months since Stannis’ death. Even in cold conditions, the would not be recognizable.
My bet is that it will be members of the Night’s Watch: Edd and perhaps Alliser. I don’t think that there is anybody left that we would recognize. I suspect that
and despoil the place in search of Sansa & Theon.
If so, then that would set up the Walkers coming through at the end of the season.
Rickon seems a poor bet unless he’s had a bit of screen time before then. The audience won’t recognize him. They might remember Tonks: but they’ll remember her as Tonks by now. So, Osha seems out, unless (of course) she has had substantial screen time. The fact that Sansa is there makes that seem implausible to me.
At any rate, it will not be one of the Big 5 or even Big 6 characters. B&W have bumped Sansa up a notch from the books, so I am betting that she’s going to be important to the over-arching story. Basically, there is a necessary “plot armor” around the long-term protagonists: they are the ones who deliver the story, so they have to stick around. Or, looking at it backwards, the people that are critical in the end have to be there in the beginning. Right now we are down 6: I cannot see it going lower than that.
Davos would be a possibility. The question would be: how would that happen? However, Mel really isn’t: even if Ramsay managed to corner her, she almost certainly could magic herself out of difficulty. Indeed, one almost wishes that Jon had delivered Mel to Ramsay: Ramsay was asking for far, far more than for which he could possibly have bargained!
Sansa probably won’t die. She still has to resolve some stuff with Little Finger, Brienne (maybe, depending on how soon she goes to the Riverlands and what the show approach is,) and possibly Cersei. Maybe even Jaime, considering Cersei wanted him to chop off her head for a spike. Tyrion may even have questions for her, regarding Joff’s wedding business.
No- please don’t! There are some things we still need to be shocked by when the show airs…
Isn’t official by any means but I’m guessing mid/end of April again.
I would think D&D would be trying to move the show away from it’s “slaughterfest” reputation. Since I doubt Bran will come back from beyond the wall, Rickon is the only hope for the Stark Name to be carried on. To lose that hope is too much. I vote for red-shirts.
Mel can’t be killed or caught by someone she would suspect. The first thing she does everyday is look for threats to her in the flames. There is zero chance she is caught by fucking Ramsey, no matter how good his 20 men are.
OK, third reaction post! Two points now:
1. If this has to be a Stark, I hope it’s Rickon and Osha. Sorry, but better Rickon than Sansa, as far as I’m concerned.
2. That Reddit guy in that thread also claimed that
. We could have found the reason for the Córdoba Roman Bridge filming.
Luka Nieto,
All I can say in response to your speculation is…
For the love of all that’s good in the real world or an imagined one…
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo…not
Please, please, please.
BeautyBrinne,
Perhaps you weren’t the first to coin the term, but I don’t think I’ve seen it before. I’m sure I would have remembered “dickpimple.”
Thanks. 🙂
Please don’t kill Sansa! Maybe Rickon?
Oh god, horrible thought – what if the two people are Rickon and Osha?
R’hllor priests revive the dead with a wish and a prayer: no burning is involved.
This is the point where all the book readers are in danger of nervous breakdown. But why no one underlines the fact that the post refers to AT LEAST TWO BODIES?
SlayerNina,
Yes! We agree on the Elizabeth I speech from Sansa, SlayerNina!
I was talking about it in another thread. I’m glad I’m not the only one thinking about something like that for her!
We have a way to know early if it’s Rickon. If he suddenly appears with a lot of screentime this season being adorkable, he’s doomed.
Hating the Starks meetings, someone always dies.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
It sounds implausible because one of those really is not a character, and even if we stretched the definition of “character,” then neither of them are well-known to the audience anymore. That could change with copious screentime this year: but I would be surprised to see that.
Newbietothegame,
Brienne and Pod are in the Riverlands so they are safe.
Rickon is a possibility, alltough not my first choice.
Who knows, could be many possibilities.
The emotional impact of burning two people who, by that point, have been dead for at least months, is pretty low. Doubt the bodies would even be recognizable at that point, and none of their followers are going to be in the opposing army.
I’m on the “Sansa as parallel of the Virgin Queen” wagon. Enjoy the hype!
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/e5/8b/5b/e58b5baa4e9918a8ad73abf58af64078.jpg
PS: I didn’t think at the possibility of Selyse and Stannis’ corpses. That would fit the “known characters killed”
Wimsey,
Prepare to be surprised, then 😛
As much as I hate the character Ramsay, have to give (grudging) props to actor Iwan Rheon. I’ve been watching the series Vicious on PBS, in which he plays a sweet, charming, helpful, harmless young guy that everyone loves. He’s so convincing, but I still only see Ramsay
The only way Mel would let herself be captures is if she had seen that doing it would let her destroy Ramsay. In different ways, both show and book show that she is pretty damn powerful. R’hllor seems to “like” her (insofar as a non-corporeal entity would have any such emotions: perhaps it would be better to say that it finds her very useful as well as very receptive).
That is why I suspect that it will be the members of the Watch. We know only a couple of them anymore, but they could have many Crows on crucifixes for display. (And, of course,
Jonsnowed,
Yeah it’s not Brienne and Pod (actoully do we have confirmation that Pod is there?)
They are in another place.
Luka Nieto,
Well, if they get copious screentime this year, then that will change. Still, isn’t one of them really stretching the definition of “character”?
(If it does go that way, then it will be Rickon and Davos.)
Logistically, the big problem I would have with it is: why would Rickon demoralize the Northerner’s? Someone would have to tell them who he is! After all, it’s not like any of them know him.
I could see the Watch being a more plausible target because they would all know what the NW is, and the Northerners are supposed to regard it highly. We would know a couple of faces.
Josh L.,
Yeah, my first instinct would be Davos and Melisandre, but I lean towards not Melisandre because of the reasons you stated. I think the “sees things through Jon’s eyes” is such a lame copout, if thats how they choose to explain away the foreshadowing.
Do feel like we’re due some hints as to what Melisandre is up to though, any hints Sue? 0=) Feel like shes one of the more important characters that we know close to nothing about.
Luka Nieto,
Actually, I think
A lot of shit will need to happen for Yara and Theon to meet up, let alone escape to Volantis.
There are a many more plausible characters to be filming in Volantis. I am a bit skeptical.
Luka Nieto,
Nooooo. That’s so bad.
Mihnea,
Yes, according to the WiC exclusive report. Bronn jokes around with Pod at the siege camp, as they knew each other while they were at Tyrion’s service.
TormundsMember,
I don’t think it’ll have been months in show-time. For the characters, the deaths of Stannis and Selyse will be pretty recent, even if the battle doesn’t happen till the end of the season.
Luka Nieto,
Nice speculation Luka!
Actoully looks possible.
Luka Nieto,
Ok then Pod is safe.
M,
where do you know from that sansa and petyr (i refuse to call him littlefinger) are gonna be at winterfell? seems like i’ve missed something.
I can’t believe it will be Jaime and Brienne…. Ramsay has to bring something to scare the other side, everyone in this battle would be thankful to see a Lannister dead, more over the first born son of Lannister… they may end the battle and start partying. 😛
I believe it is
Rickon and Osha
or
Roose and Walda.
I am very happy that Sansa may save Jon , i like her and powerfull characters like i thought Jon will be in season 6 aren’t my thing. Maybe queen in the North….that slays the giant….great!
Please be Olly and Allister Thorne.
I’d think the bodies have to have some significance for the people opposing Ramsay, right? So it’s not going to be Brienne, Pod or Jaime, because why would anyone on the other side of the battle care?
I’m thinking that Littlefinger, Sweetrobin, Rickon, Osha (although no one would even know who Osha is), Davos and Mel would be the main ones in danger.
Not if your spoiler is correct! If that character does not reappear until Episode 9, then there will be no shock value as the TV audience will not have seen the character in (I think) three years
To really work, it needs to be someone that we’ve seen often and that we see a few times this year prior to the battle.
Lisa0527,
Ha.
If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven’t payed attention. 🙂
If
Wimsey,
Remember, these Bolton crucifixes are on the battlefield set; they are there to send a message (in fact, we saw pictures weeks ago, though we didn’t know they would hang known characters on them; and the crucifixes were enormous!). Shaggydog may look like a stretch, but he’s the loyal pet of one of the Stark children and the symbol of the Starks to boot; the poor direwolfie is more of a meaningful demoralising symbol for the Stark Loyalists than Osha (an unkown wildling) and Davos (Stannis’ former Hand, and otherwise an unknown to the Northeners). If it’s not Shaggydog, it will be someone who means something to the Stark Loyalists. Not Night’s Watch members or one of Stannis’ men.
Well, basically they would know who Rickon is by name: but none of them would recognize him as the few who ever met him last did years ago! (Joe and Jane TV watcher probably would not recognize Parkinson now: Rickon will need a bit of reintroduction.) LF, Robin, Osha, Davos and Mel would all be largely unknown to Jon’s alliance.
Gudvon,
You may want to chill out. People are entitled to their opinion, whether you agree with it, or not, and there’s no reason to tell someone to “fuck off” just because you disagree with them.
Maggie,
“Ramsay has to bring something to scare the other side.”
How would Roose and Walda scare the other side? Wouldn’t they enjoy seeing them dead even more than a Lannister? Roose is the one who ACTUALLY stabbed Robb.
If Roose is on one of those crosses and the Northerners are doing anything but cheering I’ll stop watching this show immediately.
Wimsey,
I do think Rickon will get quite some screen-time this season.
Also seeing Jon and Sansas reaction should be dramatic enough.
(want to be clear. I’m not supporting this theory, but neither do I think it’s impossible too happen)
Luka Nieto,
Ugh…not Shaggydog. They really need to stop killing the direwolves.
TormundsMember,
Them meeting has been heavily hinted at, though? We just didn’t know what would happen to them afterwards.
But the Night’s Watch does mean a lot to Northerners and thus to Stark Loyalists.
I think those two boddies are Stannis-Selyse or maybe northern lords.
Everyone else will be around Jon and the Wildings.
Bard,
Tormund is a good guess.
P.S. Do we need spoiler tags? It’s only speculation after all?
Matt,
Sounds pretty good to me. I mean, horrifying, because Rickon is an innocent little kid and Shaggydog is too; and I don’t want Jaime in danger. But i think it will be pretty great storytelling.
That would strain credulity somewhat! After all, neither has seen Rickon in several years: they probably would not recognize him immediately under normal circumstances.
One could say that they would recognize Shaggydog, and that might be a better bet: but they last saw him as a large pup. Still, Direwolves are not common. (But, then: they also are not characters!)
Stannis and Rickon
A son who does this to his father…can do anything… that could scare me enough.
I guess Rickon is very possible to be the one….we never got anything for the future of this character…but this could mean the end of Stark line 🙁
BeautyBrinne,
I am sorry but even weeks can make a huge difference. Of all the suggestions this one is the most absurd and I do wonder how people keep advocating for it. Even GRRM has more chances as Ramsays burning battle casualty than Stannis and Selyse…
Wimsey,
Wimsey,
I’m going to go ahead and order a new tv now ’cos I can’t imagine I won’t be kicking the screen in for real this time. I don’t like the sound of this AT ALL 🙁 🙁 🙁
The burning bodies bit sounds ‘interesting’, if that’s the right word. Ramsay does like to show off his handy work but fire isn’t his usual thing, so I wonder if it’s someone like Mel who has a fire connection? Also they would become unrecognisable very quickly. Also, also, if they’ve been flayed first would they be recognisable at all? Presumably he waits until whoever he wants to see the victims is watching, so they can see who it is, before setting them on fire.
It might be Roose and Walda if he kills them for whatever reason and wants to show he’s so crazy he’ll literally kill anyone who gets in his way, even his own family. Quite frankly it could be just about anyone and not necessarily two people we would normally see together. If this is episode 9 it presumably gives virtually any character enough time to get there. I may well be watching this from behind a cushion! 🙁
The problem is how the future dead bodies meet Ramsay. They were chilling on the woods, like “hey, capture me!”. That’s why I’m personally lefting out characters like Mel or Davos.
However, they can go with Ramsay being “Bastard! This is what I’m gonna do when you and your army lose! Wait? What did you say, Jon? You know this people? Cool! I nailed it!”
Note: I do not know how to do the spoilers thing.
My first thought was Roose, but now I’m thinking Ramsay just kills Roose and Walda pre-battle and the burning bodies belong to Rickon and either Osha or Shaggydog.
Because Ramsay needs to be head honcho for this, and killing Rickon would be awful–everyone would care about a child being burned (as we know) and Ramsay would probably find it funny since Theon was supposed to have burned him ages ago.
Jaime has a different ending coming up, so I would not worry about him here.
The problem with this is threefold. From a plot-perspective, in the subsequent months, Stannis Selyse would not be very recognizable: they’d be falling apart, in fact. Also from a plot-perspective, even if the northerners could recognize Stannis, then why would they care? He’s nothing to the Northmen, and an enemy of the Wildlings.
The third is TV logistics: a year later, the TV audience will not readily recognize them.
Guns fired late need to be hung early: these will have to be people who get some screentime this year and who (preferably) have gotten a bit of screentime in the recent past.
I could see Jon leaving Edd in charge at the Wall.
My theory has been that Sansa will be found by Littlefinger and usurp control of the Vale from him by manipulating Sweetrobin, who sees her as a replacement for his mom. Sansa will then bring the Vale to Jon’s side.
When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives.
Tinfoil time: the two people Ramsey strings up are Jon Snow and Benjen…wait for it….the burning resurrects Jon, and something else clever to explain Benjen
Wimsey,
Yes, I’m sure they’ll be so upset over the deaths of the men who betrayed Ned Stark’s bastard son, who is now alongside them in battle. Come on…
Wimsey,
If Rickon is one of them I hope they give him more to do this season rather that just be a corpse on a X-cross.
RG,
You do not need the spoilers unless you are going to use unfilmed material from the existing books to justify your conjecture. So, if you are going to say: “Given what the book had in
, I think that So and So will do X, then spoiler-out the book part. Otherwise, just tell us what you think!
Wimsey,
Thank you 🙂
HotPinkLipstick,
No way Jamie will burn on a Bolton cross…
Wouldn’t burning Jamie Lannister, the Lord Commander of the King’s Guard, be kinda stupid? I mean, he IS (and I think he’ll still be at that point) the head of the King’s Guard. No matter who will be king/queen in KL by then, would be pissed off at least due to the lack of respect for a King’s Guard, and therefore Boltons should fear some retaliation will come from KL (apparently Westeros is full of spies and somebody will know about their deed).
Plus, Jamie is a Lannister and burning him would further affect the Boltons’ relationship with that house. And they have no reason to burn a man that gets no sympathy from the other side – it will have no impact on the other side’s troops morale (or at best it will make them happier – after all he captured Ned and killed a bunch of his men, killed Northeners in battle against Robb and so on).
Most likely will be either the new Northern characters, or maybe even Rickon.
How could it be anyone but Rickon & Osha/Shaggy Dog if the Umbers have aligned with the Boltons?
Possibly a plot device to cement the Bolton/Umber alliance and destroy all your hopes and dreams of a Manderly style betrayal.
I doubt that most of them will be looking at it like that! The Watch is a revered organization in the North. Indeed, the big question for which I have yet to see a good speculative answer is: how is it that the “Stark Loyalists” are sparing Jon his head? More and more, I am wondering if they do not know who he is.
Of course, there is the issue of what people fighting on Ramsay’s side would think: but that might be an issue, anyway.
Amazing news, this was the kind of news I’ve been waiting for, two known characters being killed. jon snow is out of the question, being brought back and killed again by the boltons would probably be the one rare thing to make me pissed off at the show. wasn’t there news on there being a major stark death during the battle awhile ago. so I assume rikon and another character we know, maybe osha or shaggy Dog. What do you guys think ?
H.Stark,
Obviously we’ll meet Rickon again first. And probably so will Jon and Sansa. Or else neither us nor them would recognize his body later.
So, I assume the Umbers betray the Stark Loyalists early on (maybe the Boltons have the Greatjon or Smalljon), and give Rickon to the Boltons. After all, that extra from the battle scene claimed the Umbers were fighting for the Boltons in the battle, something the WiC report corroborated.
Wimsey, I think that answers your questions too.
Well, last season show!Jaime entered in Dorne without a plan to rescue Myrcella… #YOLO
However, Jaime killed would work if Ramsay goes completely crazy and doesn’t give a fuck about the Lannisters think (or if he thinks they won’t attack him, since there’s this stuff of Cersei at KL right now)
Benjen reappearing as one of the corpses with no prior explanation would actually be hilarious. “Huh…so that’s where he’d got to.”
I also noticed the “at LEAST two bodies.” If it’s multiple members of the same group, which the phrasing suggests is possible, it could be NW members…although I doubt that would bother Jon overmuch, if by this point he’s turned his back on the NW.
I cannot imagine why Ramsay would display Roose and Walda’s bodies to psych out Team Stark. “Get this, assholes! I killed your family’s MORTAL ENEMY and ensured that his LEGITIMATE HEIR WOULD DIE. YEAH! SUCK ON THAT, BITCHES!”
Sue, please do NOT reveal who are the two bodies. It WILL come up in other threads and spoil people.
I really hope it’s not Melisandre. I’m ready to learn more about her, and having her killed soon after Stannis would be a real letdown. For what it’s worth, I don’t think it will be her for a bunch of reasons already adressed above. Though the Red Witch is probably famous and would send a message if put on a cross.
I don’t think Mel will be one of the ones burned by Ramsay. My guess is after Winterfell is taken, captured mercenaries will reveal what she did to Shireen. Jon will then execute her in the Godswood, earning him Davos’ loyalty and reestablishing him as an Old Gods follower, even if it was Mel’s magic that brought him back.
Hum, the fact that the bodies exposés are burning and not Just flayed “a la Bolton” could indicate that our two unfortunate souls are related to Stannis. I think Mel could have a taste of hervown medicine
Luka Nieto,
How do Jon and Sansa interact with Rickon if Rickon is with Umbers that are loyal to the Boltons without Jon and Sansa being captured themselves?
Are there perhaps two sets of Umber forces? Or is it a case where there really are no Stark Loyalists, only Wildlings vs. Northerners?
Maybe the bodies will be burning because Ramsay knows Melisandre is with Jon and he just likes to play with people like that.
IT makes zero SENSE for Umbers, led by the son of the man who loves Starks, to betray the Starks. How the HELL will Jon get his men? Karstarks will be pro Bolton as Robb killed their lord.
Umbers will give the “North Remembers” speech and will give Jon his men, that’s their major plotline. There’s ZERO reason they, who are massively loyal to the Starks, would side with the traitors who murdered their friends, their beloved king and allies. Zero. Bloody. Sense.
Also why would they give up Rickon AFTER ALL THIS TIME? Isn’t that kinda fishy? Why not hand him to Roose right away? It’s not happening guys.
BTW, has anybody seen Aidan Gillen (LF) around Belfast or on set at all this year? I just know that his trailer was seen around the Winterfell set in August, but I mean seen him in person? He must be one sneaky guy in real life too 😀
But.. wuuuh Sophie! I was already concerned about my yearly Sansa dose 😛
Stannis and roose ?
it’s possible XD
Bye bye Davos I’d say – definitely surplus to requirements given he’s not following the book arc. As to the other one, Tormund?
logically, it’s either people sent by jon to rescue sansa (davos and either edd or tormund) or it’s rickon plus either osha or shaggy dog. my guess based purely on the show’s needing people in the jon snow entourage is that it’s rickon and osha. killing the last known living stark heir sets sansa up to inherit winterfell and the north, works nicely for the story, particularly given her inevitable showdown with littlefinger (the lannister-designated warden of the north). during the battle itself, i’m not seeing davos die (he’s too important to jon’s conquest of westeros) and edd is an important link to his pre-azor watch days, but i guess they could kill tormund if they establish that jon is the wildling commander in his own right.
I see these combinations the most likely. The battle has already begun when the bodies are displayed. So I don’t think Jon/Davos/Mel/Wildlings are likely.
Any Jon combonation – no
Stannis/Brienne – Yes
Stannis/Theon – Yes
Stannis/Sansa – Yes
Theon/Sansa – Yes
Theon/Brienne – Yes
Sansa/Brienne – Yes
Oh, I’m ready for him to be gone as well, just didn’t want my annoyance at Ramsay to be taken as dislike of the actor. But, doesn’t there always have to be a strong villain or two in the story? With more seasons confirmed, I doubt that Ramsay will bite it yet, otherwise who is left that we know of to hold the villain role? LF? yeah, he’s one that needs to go, but unless they introduce a new major villain before Ramsay dies, I think we are stuck with him for a while.
One for sure will be Ed to give Jon aka Azor Ahai more heart break.That’s the way it works folks.Other may be Davos but I am presuming he must have taken revenge for Shireen before faling.Other guesses could be stark loyalists.
MiaMoon,
I dunno about that. Surely they would have given him up by now? Plus if the Umbers aren’t on Jon’s side then who actually is!? A few wildings against the rest of the north isn’t a great idea! Be disappointed if Rickon dies as he’s been underused compared to the other Starks all through the seasons. The Umbers turning would be pretty heartbreaking too as they’re the epitome of the north.
Most importantly I hope the deaths have some purpose and not just for shock value as I feel some of the deaths in previous seasons have been.
On a sidetnote…why is there an ‘e’ on the end of my username now?!
But they might very well be siding with the other Northerners against the Wildlings and the Night Watch deserter Jon Snow. Starks might have nothing to do with this.
Of course, another possibility is that there are two Umber forces: one siding with the Boltons, and the other not. At least one house is like that in the books, too.
Roose/Walda – it makes no sense to kill your own people
Stannis/Selyse – there is almost no one left on either side that gives a shit about them
Brienne/Pod – again almost no one would care
Mel/Davos – again who would care? The Wildlings? The Northmen? Seems unlikely.
Night’s Watchmen – there is already almost none of them left. Wildlings would probably be happy they are gone. Northmen wouldn’t really care.
Honestly the ones who are probably the most likely are Osha and Rickon. Sure Osha won’t make too many waves, but you don’t get one without the other. Rickon’s death would be the true demoralizing force here. Plus, as pointed out, his direwolf is named Shaggydog. People have been speculating for years if this meant that his story is ultimately going nowhere. Tormund is a possibility, but that brings up the question of how Ramsay gets a hold of him. If the rumors of the Umbers siding with the Boltons are true, I definitely think it is Osha and Rickon.
Dark Knight’s King,
yep except that we can also imagine that Shaggydog will live and Sansa will take care of him –> have another direwolf by her side after the loss of Lady 😉 The She-Wolf Queen of the North.
Jon,
My bet… Stannis body and Roose Bolton
Hawk,
I totally agree ! The only counter-argument I find is that GRRM’s stories are very much like real life, and sometimes you die before you can finish your “mission” on this Earth… So… (but yeah screenwritingwise I’d say, if Sansa has to die it is not in season 6, not yet…)
Maybe Jon sends a couple people into Winterfell to spy, but things go poorly and they get captured and strung up. It could be the show version of a certain plotline in the books.
My guess at the Six Armies: Boltons and Freys and Karstarks on one side.
Wildlings, Northmen led by Umbers, and Arryns on the other.
I could see the Ironmen be involved too, maybe Ramsay leads an attack against them in Deepwood Motte but then Jon shows up surrounding them with Wildlings and Umbers. Arryns turn the tide, but for who?
oh no. Who does Ramsey have on crosses? Who?? Oh god.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
which makes me think that Meera Reed and Hodor will probably be back. I was saying in another thread that Bran will not let them waste their lives in the weirwood cave (his mission is a solitary one, etc). So where are Meera and Hodor going to end up is a possible question…
Could it be Roose and ramsay burned by me lisa die on their own crosses
spacechampion,
Do we have any info on Freys going North?
I can’t remenber anything like that.
Well, Rickon is not a main character! It’s not like all the Starks need to be used in equal proportions, after all. If he’s not a main character, then he should not be used much.
Of whom we know none! It has to be characters that we recognize as much as the main characters recognize.
I think it will be Rickon. It will be just like with Myrcella. They brought her back after 2 seasons and killed her off.
I don’t see what purpose Rickon can serve in this story after S6. Yes, he could be the King in the North, just like Myrcella could have been the queen, but no one care about them that much.
Rickon will die, Ramsay will be the monster for the last time, and then Jon and Sansa will take WF.
No… no, no, no! Rickon and Sansa must live, damn it. NO STARK DEATHS IN SNOWBOWL. I forbid it.
On a serious note, we can be absolutely sure of at least one of the casualties in the battle: Ramsay. He’ll likely kill Roose earlier in the season and name himself Warden of the North… and unwittingly doom himself and his entire house in the process as he’s too cruel and lacks the political sensibilities of his father.
“We don’t have enough men to hold the North if the other houses rise up against us. Do you understand that?”
No Roose, I’m afraid he doesn’t. Say good night, Bastard of Bolton.
They cannot leave the cave: they would be killed by Wights or Walkers long before they could reach the Wall at this point.
I agree that “known character” is not the same thing as “major character.” With that said, there aren’t that many minor characters running around in the North at this point, unless the show introduces a few for the express purpose of killing them off like Hardhome (and the casting calls don’t seem to reflect this).
The same thing applies to the “saying goodbye” to a few characters during the battle. It’s safe to say that Karstark, Smalljon (if he sides with Ramsay), and Ramsay are unlikely to survive the battle; that’s three characters right there. The big question is whether someone from Team Jon will die as well. I doubt we’ll see a repeat of Hardhome where only new characters die (Karsi, that Thenn dude).
Jon/Sansa fans, this is not a drill. I repeat, this is not a drill.
There are in the books. But that’s not what I was suggesting, anyway. I’m suggesting this betrayal will take place throughout the season, not before.
That’s silly speculation, though, based on very little. The Umbers wouldn’t betray the Starks willingly, that’s for sure. Maybe there’s more going on. The fact is that there are independent reports claiming the Umbers fight for the Boltons during the battle; everything else is speculation based on our expectations and nothing else. Hopefully the Umbers do a Manderly and betray them when the battle starts… But maybe they don’t. Either way, I’m pretty sure it will be Rickon on that crucifix.
watcher in the brothel,
Exactly. It’s actually good news for LF, because then Sansa as (hopefully dead) Ramsay’s widow and the last heir to Winterfell now controls all the loyalties of the North–which LF will think means he controls them. And then? Well I’m hoping Sansa gets actual revenge.
Even Ramsay said if the Starks show their face in the North the entire region will rally to their side. Umbers are portrayed so far as big, fierce loyal teddy bears for the Starks. We need some sort of major lord to give the NR speech and it has to be the Umber lord. Umbers being split in half over small bands of wildlings and the fact Jon is a bastard and one half joining the side that’s completely shat on them is completely silly.
I really doubt this is happening. If it does it’s completely shitty storytelling for the sake of a cheap shock scene. Rickon will be King, that’s his entire role in this saga.
Euron, Walder Frey, LF, Cersei,…
They are enough for S7. In S8 we will have WW.
Season 6
2. Tower of Joy
3. Kingsmoot
4. Possible Oldtown Raid?
5. Balon Death
6. Myrcella Death fall out
7. Pycelle Death
8. Kevin Death
9. Siege of Riverrun
10. ‘Possible Rickon Death’
11. Jon Revival
12. Arya in the Riverlands
13. ‘Possible’ Cleganebowl
14. Randyll Tarly
15. Drogon burning giant Dothraki tent with Dany in it
BEST SEASON WITHOUT ACTUALLY AIRING.
ok..this spoiler is breaking my heart because I just know this is how it is gonna go down.
[spolier] Early in the season we will get Sansa/Rickon reunion. a little later Sansa/Rickon will be reunited with Jon. Rickon is then taken (either because of betrayal or something else) and the battle happens because Jon and Sansa lead the North to save Rickon (who they will believe is the true Lord(King) in the North). Ramsey has Rickon and Shaggy Dog (the only two that would have any serious emotional repercussions on Jon/Sansa AND audience) burned alive. [/spoiler]
Interesting news, but didn’t the images some weeks back show Stark and Umber banners together.
Is there a possibility that Sansa is recaptured and forced to attend the battle to legitimise the Bolton rule of the North. I can also see Ramsey making her watch while he murders Rickon (the true heir to Winterfell). That would mirror Sansa seeing Ned’s death in season one. Will that mean that the Starks via Sansa are fighting against Jon?
Something has to happen (like hardhome last season) to prompt Jon to take on the Boltons; guessing something to do with either Rickon or Sansa.
I completely agree. As I and others have speculated, the only way, imo, the Umbers would even appear to side with the Boltons is if it was only to turn around and betray them.
Wimsey,
I know you have your formula for how you think things should be, Wimsey, but it would not take much at all to remind the audience of exactly who Rickon is and why he is important.
Smalljon will die in the battle, I’m 100% sure, no matter with whom he sides.
He will appear in only 2 episodes. One episode will be the battle and second will be the episode where he will be introduced.
My guess is Littlefinger and Royce, but it could also be the Smalljon and similar characters
I cannot believe for a second *anybody* discussing this thinks that either Rickon or Sansa would die. They’re not going to kill one of the Stark children; it’s the family we’re most invested in, and we’ve rooted for since day one.
Especially Sansa. I’d bet money that she’ll be one of the characters making it all the way through the end of the series. She’ll be Warden of the North before this is all over, mark my words. 🙂
(Just like I’m sure this is the season we get Bolton payoff. Part of me wants Sansa to kill Ramsay. Another, stronger part of me wants it to be Theon… I desperately want to see the scene where he knifes Ramsay out of the blue, and Ramsay looks at the person who has stabbed him and calls him Reek, and we hear Theon shout, “MY NAME… IS… THEON… GREYJOY!” Because that would be poetic.)
Rickon not being a huge presents in the past years (alltough he had exactly the same amount of screen-time as in the books, if not more!) is something we need to take in consideration. Rickon is clearly not a main character, hell not even a secondary one in my opinion.
While I belived he will live, this makes me reconsider those theories/speculations.
Have to say him dying will certainly make for good drama/storytelling for me. Especially how this will affect Jon/Sansa .
Agreed.
steff, there were spoilers out in July that Sophie Turner and Aiden Gillen were seen filming at the Winterfell set.
No, Sansa’s role as Ramsay’s favourite victim is over. She’s going to be with Jon. Remember Liam said she has amazing stuff this season. Also she needs massive payoff after S5.
I never understood from where people got that the WW would be in that battle. There was 0 information about that, just because it was in the North some people assumed that as a fact. With a battle of so many armies, and basically Jon x Ramsey, I’ve always thought it was better to focus only on the two.
jentario,
No way. Sansa will kill LF, not Ramsay.
TheMannis,
*tears
*tears
*tears
*tears
Not ready for this
Also if Davos dies, I’ll morph myself into the series and bite Ramsay’s head off before any of the characters can kill him. No one touches Davos!
Cameryn,
I don’t understand your opinion. You want Sansa to rule the North, but she can’t play a big role in the North if Rickon is alive, so he must die.
mau,
I just can’t think of any other major characters that would fit the bill. And I’m not sure you’re right about your guess, though I do know it’s a popular one.
It’s a TV show. They can find a way. 🙂
Mihnea,
And Myrcella had an even smaller presence in the past years
selena,
You know. That is my speculation at this point.
Hearthbreaking true, but damn good drama in my opinion.
Shaggydog and Ghost.
Sai,
The Umber banners were absent, interestingly. There were Mormont banners, Hornwood, Starks, an invented banner… But not Umbers.
I’ve had just about enough with that crazy son of a bitch Ramsay 🙁 ugh. Do not want.
mau,
Yup, I’m going with Rickon dying more and more.
It’s quite sad, but there are some good posibilities of storytelling in this.
Also I fully think the capable of killing another Stark. Afer this many seasons I know that GOT does not shy away from this sort of things.
I’m glad that we now know for certain that Sansa won’t go in the Riverlands or the Vale. That never made any sense. Her story is in the North.
Thronetender,
That’s exactly why they’re introducing Euron Greyjoy. I think he’ll be the major villain in season 7, sacking Oldtown and fighting Dany and Dorne after she lands in Westeros. Aside from him, Walder Frey is going to be toasted by Arya in season 7 and we’ll always have the big bad (Cersei!). And let’s not forget the White Walkers.
mau,
Agree
Sue – Please do NOT post the two (under spoiler warnings or not). This would be all over the net in no time and I do not want to be so majorly spoiled. Thanks!
Also, my guess- ba bye Sansa.
jentario,
Agree we have Euron and Walder Frey for S7, don’t think Arya will kill him this season.
And like Mau said, in S8 there will be the WW.
This will be the perfect time for Jon to ask Ramsay if he REALLY wrote the pink letter or was it Stannis, right?
Jon is going to take out Ramsay and the North, possibly in Rickon’s name.
Sansa is going to take out Littlefinger and more or less become Sweetrobin’s regent.
Arya is going to be screwing around in the Riverlands, which will eventually be freed from Lannister/Frey rule.
Jon will be supreme military commander of the group and “King” once his lineage is revealed. He’ll then turn his attention to the White Walkers while the Lannisters, Tyrells, Martells, Euron, and eventually Dany fight over the south.
I can’t see the Umbers siding with the Boltons. It makes no sense at all.
It’s possible some Umbers could turn their cloaks and deliver Rickon to Ramsay, but the chance of House Umber itself siding with the Boltons is nil.
Also if Rickon dies, the Starks are fucked. Sansa and Arya are women, Hench their children will not be Starks. Jon is Targ/Bastard, Bran is crippled for life/stuck in cave.
Bye bye house Stark, wiped out by Ramsay…. I think not.
mau,
It was preaty clear she will stay in the North, especially when they are bringing the Vale too her.
I was wrong on Brienne tough. Damn really not looking foward to the Riverlands.
Just McShane if he plays Maribald. 😛
jentario,
Agree. And they could create minor villains like Myranda for S7 or 8.
I think lord Karstark will play that role in S6 in the North.
Bearded Onion,
Why would that stop Sansas children being Starks? There is some precedent in both Westeros and the real world.
Zombies That Were Promised,
Ahh come on, Sansa’s story arc isn’t done yet. She is the key to littlefinger’s end game, and she still has to betray him. She is the only “known” heir to the entire North, she will also inherit the Vale after Robin dies, and now that Littlefinger is lord of the riverlands together they will control 50% of the kingdom.
Luka Nieto,
For some reason I thought the Umbers were there but I will definitely take your word for it.
Also hoping that Sansa won’t continue being the victim (re:bearded onion) but I would not automatically put her at the battle scene and I am intrigued by her presence there.
Robb Snow,
I feel like if the Umbers are with the Boltons, it’s all a ruse and once the battle starts they’ll turn immediately. Of course, that doesn’t explain how Ramsay would get Rickon from them…
Mihnea,
It was clear, but it was so annoying to read those theories about “real” Sansa’s plot in S6.
Not Sansa, please, she is my #1 candidate for queen..
Laura,
honestly that would really suck, just bring rickon back to kill him? It’s not even the sadness, it seems kinda cheap and I really want someone to announce rickon as the new king in the north
exactly..Sansa and Jon will be devastated…especially if they have a couple episodes all together to really show them “bonding”.
Looper,
How Ramsey gets Rickon, if he gets him? Well couple of traitors could do that, doesn’t have to be the entire house who joins Ramsey, just couple of traitors betraying the Starks.
Hell they can be from any house or just common soldiers.
I suppose they could have the children be Starks but what would Rickon’s role be to the story? Die to make the audience hate Ramsay? Make the Starks suffer? He has to be king, with his siblings as his regents/advisers. He has purpose to this story.
Also I would love Sansa to rule, but she doesn’t have to be queen for this. Think of Rickon as the Emperor from Star Wars and Sansa as his political Darth Vader. 🙂
Looper,
Maybe we’ll get “lucky” and it’ll just be another farm boy.
Ugh, I regret reading about the spoilers now. The apprehension about who will live and die in Snowbowl will keep me up at night.
On a sidenote if Sansa interacts with Jon that means that she and Melissandre will also interact. This would be an interesting meeting!
selena,
Funny thing. One of my theory is flying out the window right now. 😛
I always theorized that Rickon will be King in the North.
But this always had one flaw for me. I never could think of what Sansa would do/be if that was the case. But now I do.
Sue, can I ask: does the first photo connect to the second one? I know the second one is the Wall, but the original article made it sound like the first one was for something totally different. Or is this a location where they also film Wall stuff? Just wondering if it’s an entirely new set, for an entirely different location.
Did people really think Sansa would not be there? Where else she would be and why else Littlefinger and the Vale army would be joining the battle? I mean she will not be there for the books most likely but I feel the entire battle really is not happening.
I do not think Sansa will die, this has been a distraction for her political plot (probably because in the books she will deal with Aegon) but her plot can return to more book like events in season 7 after this.
Why are so many people considering Brienne and Pod? They makw ZERO sense in the context of the story. The only one affiliated with the Starks that knows Brienne is Sansa, who dismissed her completely.
It has to be someone Jon knows, someone that will have an impact. That narrows it to a Northern Lord, Night’s Watch/Wildling/Former Stannis ally, or Stark family.
Bearded Onion,
Him Dying is a story ellement. It doesn’t hapen to make us ”hate” Ramsey, we already do that.
It’s just the story evolving naturally, it may evolve in direction we don’t want too.
I always theorized he will rule the North, but that know looks just like wishfull thinking.
Him dying now would be, in my opnion, a great dramatic moment and good storrytelling.
Of course this is all speculation. But the more I think about it the more sense it makes for him to actoully die, then live, from a storrytelling perspective.
At this point, he’s an incidental character in both the books and the series.
If any of that happens, then it will be long after the story. Rickon is not important as a character in SoI&F: he’s important as a human plot element.
Also guys… why must Jon/Sansa/Bran/Arya suffer even more with Rickon dying? This is going to be THE beginning of the Stark revival…. this is their golden age and it won’t start off with yet again one of them dying.
The people on the cross will be Torumund ( 🙁 ) and Edd ( 🙁 ).
Unless she comes with the Vale army….. like some reddit user said.
Or they are Sansa’s and Jon’s. Yes this has shippers… for some people one incest is not enough in the show 🙂
I had a thought here but realized it was wrong. My bad.
We do not know that they are. There were rumors about that: but only rumors. However, I see that it’s grown into fact in this thread!
I do not see any particular reason to suppose that any of this is true! There is really no reason to think that some Stark “Golden Age” is coming up (just as there is no reason to think the republicanism is coming to Westeros).
I also don’t think Rickon will be killed for the simple reason that he is the only true born Stark that can carry on House Stark, since Bran will likely become a full time warg and staying north of the Wall. I just don’t see GRRM extinguishing the House of Stark like that. I believe Rickon will end up ruling back at Winterfell. Just a theory of course.
Wimsey,
That is quite peremptory… You cannot know for sure.
mau,
Agreed. I’m very glad that we finally have definitive confirmation that Sansa will be staying in the North and will be present during the climactic battle. At long last, the inexplicably persistent rumors that she will go the Riverlands with Brienne, flee to the Iron Islands with Theon, or clumsily backtrack to the Vale and her book plot in Season 6 can finally, mercifully die.
Bearded Onion,
If you believe the story of Bael the Bard, the whole Stark clan descends from the son Bael had with the daughter of ‘Brandon the daughterless’ as Ygritte named him. So only women being left alive is not a problem for the Starks.
Two Stark allies are possible, with Smalljon Umber for example.
I’m not sure on the Umbers siding with the Boltons – that makes no sense at this juncture (though it might by that point).
No on Sansa dying in the battle, that would be exceedingly anti-climactic.
Rickon is a high possibility.
And for selfish reasons, I want Sansa to say “The woman who passes the sentence should swing the sword.” before chopping Ramsay’s head off. He must be tortured beforehand, however. I’m glad he’ll be gone from the series at that point.
Wimsey,
That’s why I think he will die. His death will make Sansa and Jon take WF, be more determined/motivated,..etc.
Also his death leaves a open place for Sansa too actoully have a ending that fits her.
All the other theories are in my opinion quite poor.
Lady of the Vale/Riverrun, Regent of the North,…etc.
Just seams like wishfull thinking. Queen in the North is in my opinion the most plausible/fitting end for her. But that never occured too me until now because I never tought Rickon may die. But now I think him dying is, IMO, the way foward for the story.
This is pure speculation. But it looks quite possible too me.
I would probably cry like a baby if Davos is one. I’m nervous because he doesn’t really have a story now. The good guys seem to die through Ned, Selmy , Oberyn so Davos wouldn’t surprise me.
That it would be borderline suicide to try to leave that cave and return south? Yeah, I think that we can state that with certainty. They are stuck there until the war ends.
spacechampion,
The Battle of the Six Armies was just a reference to the last Hobbit movie, I think.
100% pure speculation here. But I am not worried for Sansa, since at least to me, she seems to be destined to end on the Iron Throne. The way I figured, she started as a stupid kid who wanted nothing more than to be queen. Then after losing everything, she had to suffer like the little people, add to that her “education” at the hands of Little Finger, and she seems to be destined for the throne.
Bearded Onion,
Edd dying will be the greatest mistake they culd make. Not 5% would care for him. They would actoully be glad it was him and not someone else.
Also what makes you think there will be a ”Stark golden age”?
This can easly happen with Rickon dead. Trough Sansa. (Won’t for a sec belive Arya will ever rule or even have children for that matter.)
OK, we know we have two sets of people dying in this battle.
The 2 people being burned must have been captured earlier as that is a very complicated setup, not something you do during a battle but rather to intimidate your opponents. So the candidates are people in the North but not far enough north to have joined Jon, and known from previous seasons.
I don’t really see why and how would Ramsay get away with killing Roose and/or Fat Walda and somehow expect his army to stay together?
Sansa could be it but I think it’s too early for her, she has to accomplish something important first. Besides we know Theon made it to the Iron Islands to Sansa must have made it out too. It would be shitty story for her to get re-captured after spending season 5 trying to escape.
They are just after killing Jon so he should be safe for at least another season.
I think Rickon is safe too, mainly because him and Osha should have been safe behind the lines in Last Hearth a long time ago. But also because I think Rickon is going to be the last Stark standing in the end, Rickon “The Lone Wolf” Stark, lord of Winterfell and the Protector of the North. (I think Shaggydog’s name is used ironically by George, everyone thinks he’s not important but turns out that he is by the end.) Osha could very well die in glorious battle.
Don’t know about Brienne. I feel like she needs her Riverlands story, she could go there because she thinks that’s where Sansa is heading before getting sidetracked. She is likely to go north to look for her at the Wall, in which case she could end up getting Ramsayed. But I think she will go south and meet Jaime one more time, there was a lot of of tension there that needs to be revisited. Probably safe from burning.
Littlefinger isn’t the type of dude to lead armies and even if he did he would only send in the Vale armies as a cleanup crew. No one else in the Vale is important in the Show.
Anyone who survives the fallout of Jon’s death and resurrection is a wildcard, some important character could get sent south for whatever mission only to get captured by Ramsay and burned on the cross. If not, anyone is liable to die during the combat.
If I was a betting man I would say that one of the burning people will be Stannis. I think he is still alive, and will get captured. Reminding Brienne of her duty could have made her to leave Stannis for the Boltons and go look for Sansa. The burning would be a fitting end for him and a huge morale hit to many Stark loyalists.
For the second burning character I would guess that it will be either Tormund or Mel.
Tormund’s execution would also really destroy the morale of the wildling armies.
Melisandre’s story after reviving Jon would be pretty much complete, and a burning would also be a fitting death for her.
Don’t know why they would be anywhere near the Boltons though, but I guess Jon could have sent Tormund on a secret mission as he will probably be one of the only people Jon trusts and Mel could have been forced to go on the run. Like I said before, it’s designed to intimidate so there is no point in burning relative nobodies.
Whatever way it rolls out I think the most likely candidates to die during the battle are Wun Wun, Ramsay, Edd, Tormund and Davos (In that order of probability). Not to mention all of the new characters which will die.
As to the main spoiler, man, of all the days to not check this site for a few hours.
Based on our comparative lack of information, I tend to agree with the common speculation about Rickon and Osha, but it’s hard to picture how that comes about. Not what I was expecting, I’ll give you that.
Ramsay is displaying two known characters on burning X’s sounds like exactly the sort of thing he would do, particularly if Roose is no longer around to keep his more grandiose impulses in check.
It’s worth noting that we’ve heard nothing about Michael McElhatton filming at Saintfield. That doesn’t necessarily mean anything – with so many people there, he could have easily slipped through the cracks, and Roose doesn’t strike me as a man who leads his army from the front lines. However, I’m growing increasingly suspicious that Ramsay will kill Roose and Walda before the battle and seize the title of Warden of the North for himself. Ramsay’s anger over Walda’s pregnancy was a glaring red flag last season, and it seems clear that Ramsay – not Roose – is being positioned as the face of the Bolton contingent for this battle. Furthermore, Roose being killed by his own son before anyone affiliated with the Starks can claim vengeance for Robb’s death sounds exactly like the kind of twist this story specializes in.
If Ramsay displays these bodies of two known characters during the battle, then we can infer that he gets his hands on them before the battle starts.
So many questions. Hopefully we’ll get more information soon, and be able to answer them, one way or another.
Wimsey,
Hmm. That is one of the greatest mysteries for me. What will Meera and Hodor do?
Jojen I fully expect him to die there in the books too.
Also can’t see Bran ever leaving that cave. He will become a demi-god and outlive all his brothers, but stuck there for the rest of his life. A sad but fitting end in my opinion.
Definetly would be something I would describe as ”bittersweat”
Jared,
I trully think Roose will be killed before the battle. Perhaps by Ramsey himself.
That leaves Ramsey free to do his games.
Those of you who say it’s Stannis in the X-cross: He was killed by beheading.
How can anyone recognise him without his head?
Lyanna_Targaryen,
That was good lol
Oskaras,
Stannis is dead, as dead can get. We really need to let this one go.
Also him burning will not have any effect on the Northeners. They didn’t join him when he was alive, they won’t care about him dying at all. Hell I think they will even be glad/happy about it.
Anybody think
could be one of Ramsay’s burning bodies?
Davos 4 king,
I doubt Davos will die. His fate is intertwined with Mel’s, and her visions show her walking along the battlements at Winterfell and Bolton banners lowered to the ground which will probably be the outcome of Snowbowl.
Sadly, I’m really thinking Rickon and Osha will be the victims on those crosses. Some Umber men will betray Smalljon and deliver Rickon to Ramsay, or Ramsay will find out Rickon’s location and raid Last Hearth (which might explain why Umber banners were really missing in those pictures… they’re already dead).
Dickon and osha
Rickon and osha
The audience would care after he helped Jon at HH and will be given some S6 screen time, plus he’ll burn with Tormund.
What purpose does Tormund and Edd play to this story now? Nothing, certianly less than Rickon. They will be sent out to treaty with the Boltons maybe, maybe to scout out the area or just to fetch supplies, but at some point Ramsay captures and kills them to upset Jon.
Also Sansa will rule the North. Via Rickon. Like Olenna does with Mace and like Tywin through Joff. If Rickon was to serve literally no purpose, why include him into the VERY important Stark family? You have each member who plays a important role then you have Rickon who.. who.. does nothing but die to let Sansa rule. I don’t buy it. Each Stark has a role to play. Even little Rickon.
Jon will, I’m sure.
Bearded Onion,
We will see. I don’t think he will survive. Not all Starks have to do some great deads. Rickon dying would be in my opinion a fitting end for him. Tragic and dramatic, but fitting.
Also don’t agree on Sansa rulling trough Rickon.
Disagree on Edd too, we book-readers are the only ones that care about him, just like with Pipp and Glenn. The audiance was just glad it wasn’t Jon or Sam too die. I would be suprized if they even knew his name.
Let’s just agree that we disagree. And we will se wich one guessed right what will happen, in aprill. (hopefully!) 🙂
I want Ramsay’s death to be extremely painful. I want Oberyn’s ghost to look down from the sky and be like “DAAAAAAAMN SON, didn’t think someone would top me!”
If this is a TWOW battle, and if it happens in the books also…… the dead might be Rickon and Davos (please no!!) , he is the one send to find him… and the article say “we have to say goodbye”.. people actually like Davos( 🙁 ) and there has never been a dream or profesy for Rickon. Sansa being queen , means she can actually become “the young and more beautiful”,,,
Also Robin and LittleFinger might already be dead (by Sansa?) and she is now ruler of Vale, she takes her army in the TWOW and lead them to the North or in the show she stays with Jon and asks Littlefinger to send army to her?
I believe maybe the reddit user could actually make sense and Vale army come last….
The Bolton Banners will indeed appear lowered…as she’s hanging upside down among them.
Maybe Jon is one of those burnt on the X then he arises as Azor Ahai in front of everyone.
I originally thought Sansa wouldn’t be involved in the battle and thus not be around to end Ramsay herself… but now I don’t think so. If she’s involved in Snowbowl after all, you can bet she’ll have something to do with Ramsay’s (hopefully) suitably gruesome demise. Much audience applause will ensue.
Mister Stoneheart,
Shh.
Maggie,
With LF dead Sansa could convince the Vale lords to switch sides. No need for her too actoully rule the Vale. Queen in the North is enough, in my opinion.
Robin is a wildcard. Anything could go, he dies. He lives and Royce rules trough him,…etc. Many posibilities here. Only 1 thing is certain LF will go sooner or later.
#kissedbyfirebowl 😉
I’m I the only one who doesn’t belive Ramsey will have a gruesome death?
A simple death, seams fitting to me.
Tywin of the Hill,
Mihnea,
The only people that said he is dead are the people working on the show, and they also insist Jon is dead too. It is implied he that he is beheaded sure, but not dead until confirmed in the story. Don’t forget the Davos’ death switcheroo from the books.
I mean Stannis is just after attacking Winterfell to win back the North (And as far as most people are concerned within the books, to rescue Ned’s only living child). If burning him doesn’t say “This is what you get for trying to support the Starks” I don’t know what is.
It’s quite apparent that ONE of the known characters will be
.
Build him up all season long, give him some nice heart warming moments, make us feel like
just to have
DAMN YOU GRRM AND D&D!!!
My guess it’s that it’s gonna be Rickon and Davos that burn after Davos is despatched to last Hearth to get Rickon and they are betrayed somehow. I still can’t figure it why the Umbers would side with the Boltons. Those are the only two deaths that would have any real impact on the opposing forces (well Rickon at least).
The Northern allies wouldn’t give a damn about any other deaths or wouldn’t even know who was burning so what would be the point/impact of it being Brienne/Jaime/Tormund/Mel or Stannis and Selyse (I mean really guys, they’ll have been dead already for months – get real).
As long as it’s not Sansa- like many have said, she’s got some shit left to do!
The thought of the Umbers supporting the Boltons makes me shake my head in disgust. My excitement level for the season has went down with this news. Makes zero sense, I don’t care how you try to explain it. Also, what a fucking pointless character Rickon is. But hey, it will be shocking.
People underestimate Roose. I believe he will outlive Ramsay and flee back to the Dreadfort with a couple hundred soldiers. I’m sure he still has a decent amount of men already there. I think Roose will still be alive after WOW. He will get it in A dream of spring by Art a Stark.
Robb Snow,
Beyond perhaps helping to rally the forces that defeat him, I don’t think that’s likely. Ramsay will be killed by Jon in combat.
TheMannis,
This screams of D&D trying to up the shock factor at the expense of logical storytelling.
Sean C.,
Jon killing him is great, and probably more likely overall, but I’m a sucker for poetic justice. Sansa killing Ramsay would just be so… satisfying.
But sadly you have a point.
Wow, I can’t believe how many think Rickon is toast. I never would have thought it. I mean he already escaped WF and two little boys were killed because Theon needed the lie, at Ramsay’s push. I would never have guessed it is the same bastard who gets him.
I’m pretty sure they’ll have Tormund as one body. I just have a bad feeling about Winds when it comes to my guy and I think this is it for him. I wish he’d be the last man standing though. Sometimes secondary characters survive where main ones don’t. I don’t think this is one of those novels though.
Oskaras,
Of course we actoully have Kit sightings numerous ones. While we have none with Dillane. None.
While we have numerous confirmations that Jon lives. We have also numerous confirmations from Sue even, that Stannis is dead.
Stannis is dead, people need too accept this.
Not going to argue on what effect he would have on the Northeners, you have your opinion, I have mine.
That’s why many, myself included, are dismissing it as either just a rumor, or a case of them just appearing to support the Boltons, only to turn on them.
Also, Luka, I could have sworn in that first picture we saw a while back of the banners of various armies, an Umber banner was spotted.
Bard,
Exactly, it’s about psychological warfare. The burning of the two bodies/people will be designed to discourage/cause despair in the attacking army. That, for me, rules out Roose, Walda, Theon et. al. Also, Theon will be gone to have his own storyline. Same for Brienne and Pod. Which leaves Starks and their followers, Nights Watchmen and wildlings.
My bet is Rickon and Osha/Davos/Tormund/(Shaggydog). Why? Here is what I think will happen:
1. Jon shows up in Last Hearth with the wildlings. Rickon is happy and says he’s ok with the wildlings being there helping.
2. The Smalljon is not as loyal as his father. Last Hearth is also the closest keep to the wall, so the Umbers have had the most struggles with wildlings of all the Northern lords. They actively hate them and will not forgive Jon for siding with them.
3. The Umbers will say they support Rickon, but in order to make sure the wildlings are beaten and wildling lover Jon will not become regent or some such thing, they plan betrayal.
4. Everyone goes to Winterfell. While Jon is preparing for battle, the Umbers secretly hand over Rickon. He is strapped up and burned for Jon to see.
5. Jon finally loses it and makes minced meat of Ramsay.
6. Jon’s army wins despite the Umbers because the Vale army shows up and Sansa brings them into the fold. This could be a version of what will happen in the books, where
7. Sansa becomes the lady of Winterfell. Jon moves back to the wall with her blessing and Northern troops to fight the White Walkers.
It is known :-).
Tyrion Pimpslap,
I agree that he may die a different way in the books.
But how is this not ”logical storrytelling”?
Before Melisandre goes, I want her to casually set fire to Orell as in the books. She can ask Jon about the eagle circling them. “Oh, him? He’s been trying to peck out my eyes since before I was dead.”
But yeah, Melisandre has a lot of ways to go out this season:
1) trading her life for Jon’s
2) Davos
3) ironic Ramsay burning
We know Davos will have a goal, finding Rickon, if they stay faithful to the books. Melisandre I guess will be a fiery Jon supporter. It might be a twist to have Davos and Melisandre, devil and angel, go down together. Also, Roose would have to be dead if Rickon is skinned. He would probably hold onto a Stark.
STARK REUNION!
Tyrion Pimpslap,
I’m getting pretty tired of shocking Stark deaths myself, so I hope against hope that Rickon will survive.
Of course one thing to keep in mind is that Rickon’s direwolf is called “Shaggydog”… if you’re familiar with that term, it might clue us in on Rickon’s fate regardless of if he dies in Snowbowl or not.
Nope. See for yourself. The banners are those of House Stark, Hornwood, Mormont and a seemingly made up Northern house. No Umbers in sight. No Karstarks either, though that’s only to be expected.
Not sure if I missed something, but is Art Parkinson even confirmed to be returning for season 6? Or is this all major speculation of a Rickon death?
Noooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!! Not Rickon or Edd!
Some baddies should bite the dust for a change!
If that is what happens, that sounds exactly like something that would happen in the books. I can see it now…”oh, yay, Rickon…there’s hope for the future of the Starks, etc… Wait. What the fuck? Did he just kill off Rickon after making us wait how long to see him again???”
TormundsMember,
would not the north cheer and drink beer at the site of Theon turn cloak being burned? he lead to the sack of winterfell,and most of the north seems to think he burned Rickon and bran(we know the truth) so i see them being happy with Ramsay burning Theon so i doubt it will be him
Looper,
He was spotted in Belfast with the crew, as far as I remenber.
Also when asked if he is in this season, he didn’t want to answer that question.
Too me thats confirmation enough.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Exactly, my opinion.
Looper,
He is.
Luka Nieto,
Thanks for the link, but I’m no good with that stuff. I just thought I remembered someone with better eyes than I making out part of the Umber banner from that picture. My mind tends to function slightly better than my eyes, but that’s not really saying much…hahaha.
Jeez! When all is said and done,not only there will be no Iron Throne but also there will be NO houses left in Westeros:Lannister,Baratheon,Bolton,Frey,Clegane,Umber,Mormont,Greyjoy,Florent,SeaWorth,Dayne… They will all go the way of the dodo! Who will prevail I wonder? Jon Stark/Targ, Tyrion Lannister,Brienne of Tarth,Margery Tyrel,Arianne Martel,Daenerys Targ???????? Any of them???
I have to say thinks for the belly laugh!
Exactly what I’m hoping for.
Looper,
Yes. Rickon is confirmed to come back, as is Osha.
Motivations for
ANYTHING!
Fear, revenge, anger, just because I’m a bats#*t crazy Ramsey. He could do it for any number of strange reasons. Dramatic lighting, D&D getting creative, no reason whatsoever. I don’t think we can ferret out the why of a Frodo madman, through levels of GoT story modification.
So let’s focus on who he is likely to get his hands on…
Rickon/Shaggydog
There’s something cool about a direwolf burning on a cross, now that would make a visual statement. Who the heck cares about Tonks from a tv show character perspective, I adore her, Jon doesn’t. Jon already knows that his brothers are alive on the show, so that COULD be an easy message to Jon from far away.
Sansa/Theon
But how would Jon know that Sansa is alive, is a hostage, escaped, then got recaptured, yadda yadda, yadda… do we have time for all that story to be expressed?
Davos/Melisandre/Edd/any other Nightswatch people left
Burning an envoy that Jon sent? The “burning” part would be more appropriate that way… but I dunno
Roose/Fat Walda
What if there was about to be a truce…. and Ramsey foils it? The statement is… your not dealing with daddy, you’re dealing with ME now…So the crazy is even crazier….
Since my dream of little Shireen/Rickon babies is already kaput… I think the most personally hurtful think would be option 1… so maybe that’s it…
Wimsey,
He’s not but he’s been of no significance at all so far. There’s a difference between not being used much and being a pointless character which I will consider him to be if his only contribution to the story is being killed by Ramsay.
I tend to agree. Just include the scene of Rickon weepily leaving Bran from S3 in a Previously On … And the audience will remember who Rickon is quickly enough.
It wasn’t hard for the audience to remember Lancel Lannister, and he had a complete overhaul, appearance-wise.
It looks like that bit with Littlefinger and Sansa at Winterfell will happen in 6×10. I can’t see Sansa and Littlefinger entering Winterfell until Ramsay Bolton is done for, which won’t happen until 6×10. So we can add Sansa and Littlefinger to the short list of characters whose endpoints for Season 6 are more or less known.
“Last known location in Season 6” (based on available spoilers):
Ramsay, Jon, Davos, Karstark, Smalljon: Northern battle, 6×09
Varys, Olenna: Dorne (probably later in the season since Olenna is still in KL as of 6×06)
Edmure, Blackfish, Jaime, Brienne, Pod, Bronn: Riverrun (6×07/6×08)
Arya: Riverlands (6×10)
Tommen, Margaery, High Sparrow, Mace: KL (6×06)
Dany, Missandei, Tyrion: reunited somewhere outside Meereen (some point past 6×06, when Dany is with Daario)
Jorah: spying on Dothraki camp with Daario (6×04)
Daario: riding with Dany and Dothraki group (6×06)
Doran, Areo, Nym, Tyene, Ellaria, Obara: Dorne (???)
Sam: Horn Hill (6×07)
Team Greyjoy: Kingsmoot (6×05)
Doesn’t mean that there isn’t more material for these characters past their last known locations, just that that’s all we have.
Alex G,
I’ve considered looking at what’s coming like an apocalyptic event. As Dany said on the show the wheel will be “broken” and nothing will be the way it was. Groups will come together, maybe they’ll go back to pre-targ rule when every area had a king.
The iron throne might still be there–but like the seastone chair in the Iron Islands–eventually no one will be sure where it came from. Which would make it more bittersweet if someone went to sit on it, because so many battles were fought for a chair made of swords set in the middle of a pile of ash and snow.
Of course I have a tendency to be over dramatic. I’m sure it’ll be fine 🙂
Mihnea,
The Umbers are as loyal of Stark supporters as there is. They lost men at the Red Wedding. Rickon was sent to them in season 3. Yet the Boltons are still clueless about this. What would make them all of a sudden hand him over? Their hatred of wildlings, really? These are the Umbers. They are as tough as it gets. Their loyalty wouldn’t waiver so easily.
Ramsay: I have an army.
Jon: We have a Wun Wun.
Wimsey,
John knows what he looks like as well as sansa,and im assuming they give ramsay a big speech moment before it happens to sort of explain it
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
I honestly wouldn’t mind if Mel was one of the bodies.
Same here, I truly do not wish to see Jon led around by his dickpimple for however long. 😀
I can’t imagine Jon being burnt, not going to resurrect him, just to kill him later. Plus I assume Jon wins the battle, as mellisandre sees herself ‘walk the walls of winter fell’. However ‘Bolton banners burning prophesy can either be the victory, or the two burning people. I will rule out Jon, simply for story telling sense. Rule out mellisandre, leaves: Sansa, rickon, Osha, Davos, tormund, Ed, brienne, pod. I’d rule out brienne, pod, Ed and Davos because Ramsay needs to send a message I assume by the public burning and know body would know who they are: Leaves Sansa, rickon, Osha, tormund.
All in all….I think it’s Osha and rickon, Ramsay probably learns of them hiding has them recaptured or turned in by the unbers. I.e Ramsay is sick enough to burn a kid, Osha would put up a fight in defense therefore inherit the penalty with rickon, plus if Ramsay really wanted to taunt Jon and Sansa, burning the little stark would hit home. Plus I can’t imagine rickon and osha having much plot when they return to the show. As they really can’t do much.
I don’t know, if Ramsay killed Rickon horribly and publicly the entire North would turn against the Boltons. It wouldn’t make sense strategically ..
Tyrion Pimpslap is correct. Hell, it was Greatjon Umber who declared Robb to be King in the North in the first place. There is no logical reason for the Umbers to side with the Boltons.
I really hope we’re all wrong about Rickon, and that these are just two “known” characters as Sue wrote, but not major characters… maybe just some people from the Night’s Watch or Wildlings or Northern lords that Ramsay managed to grab and display on the battlefield to intimidate/demoralize the Stark men.
Luka Nieto,
Why do you think Jon and Sansa will actually meet? After all they’ve had Jon very near to a sibling, Bran, and they didn’t meet. They might do something like that here. He or she sees the other across the field but can’t get to each other. Then at the end of the battle they are forced to go in different directions….I’m not going to even consider the possibility that they meet because if they don’t I will be so crestfallen!
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Yeah, it’s going to be tough for me to consider the reasons why the
would support the Bolton’s. The only thing I can think of is
considering it a lost cause, or possibly someone in the
camp betraying
.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Ahhh!! That is what you are against! I agree with you here don’t think the Umbers will hand Rickon over or switch sides. If they do then they will do a Mandarly in my opinion.
You shouldn’t let those rumors get too you, at least until Sue confirms them!
Well that’s what I usually do. 😛
Like others, I suspect:
Another candidate is Mel. Her visions at Winterfell may be because she will be captured, or be sent in a diplomatic capacity on behalf of Jon, and/or because that’s where she’ll be executed. She is not so powerful that she can evade capture and execution, and Ramsay would execute her by fire.
Roose seems the least likely to me, because it would require a willful suspension of disbelief to accept that any major northern house would support the Boltons with Ramsay as Warden. Roose, yes. Ramsay no. But the show has made some silly narrative choices before, so you never know.
M,
Can someone please give me a source for Sansa + LF in Winterfell? I only remember Sophie Turner sightings at the set.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
In the books I could see him die because of an illness…cough…grey plague…or a similarly understated and tragic way. In the show he may die burning on a cross at the hands of evil Ramsey. In the end, he dies, but the how is so vastly different. It appears the new episode 9 tradition will be burning innocent children alive.
TheMannis,
Some soldiers switching sides, seams quite possible.
If couple of Umber soldiers desart doesn’t mean the entire house will.
I think you’ve just solved it.
Even though it would suck soooooo much if Rickon’s really was a Shaggydog story…
Yup! I’m highly doubting Rickon will be handed over by the Umbers and burned at the stake, then going against EVERYTHING the North is about (loyalty to the Starks above all else) by siding with the faction that slaughtered their southern army, killed Robb and their friends in the biggest most dickish backstab move of the century, because.. because.. it’s shocking!! Rickon dying horribly! The Starks have been betrayed again! Oh Noooo we totally haven’t done this before!
No. That’s 100% awful storytelling. There’s no way this can happen. It really can’t.
If it does happen, it’ll ruin the biggest storyline and seriously taint the show for me, all for the sake of some cheap ass shock value.
Tiny direwolf,
Roose would realize that Ramsey not so much.
In his sick mind he would probaly belive this will submit the lords in fear.
Hopefully one of them is olly and Jon will just be like oh well
Roose would not do it, but if Ramsey is in charge HE would do it. Fits his character perfectly.
But the Smalljon is not the Greatjon. And yes, being the lords of Last Hearth, they have lost more men to the wildlings than they have to the Freys and Boltons.
He flayed a man for not paying his taxes, wanting to rule by fear instead of loyalty. I don’t think he has changed all that much.
Bearded Onion,
“No. That’s 100% awful storytelling. There’s no way this can happen. It really can’t.
If it does happen, it’ll ruin the biggest storyline and seriously taint the show for me, all for the sake of some cheap ass shock value.”
You act as though D&D are above this.
Bard,
what if one of the is Benjen!
The Flaming Stag,
Is this needed? We are having a poilite disscussion/debate.
Is this really needed?
Dragonslayer,
The evidence for Littlefinger’s presence is a lot more indirect. The claim was that one of the trailers there had Gillen’s name on it.
So it’s not exactly rock-solid, but it makes sense, and unless I’m mistaken it’s the only news we’ve gotten about Gillen filming all year.
Say hello to
http://oi62.tinypic.com/160r9xw.jpg
Mod note: knock it off. Rickon is not one of the people on the burning crosses. – Sue the Fury
Also Umbers siding with RAMSAY (on the same moral scale as ISIS) because of Jon using tiny squads of wildlings would make Umber the biggest retard ever. Enjoy getting flayed by Ramsay afterwards for holding a stark male heir in secret for so long, clearly plotting to use him at some point..
Dragonslayer,
There was this
http://watchersonthewall.com/littlefingers-trailer-spotted-and-other-filming-updates/
Mihnea,
LOL we are so on the same wave length on this spoiler its crazy!!
and you are right, the only way for Sansa to have any meaningful end game story(which I truly think she is being set up to have) would be as the Stark in Winterfell/Queen in the North. And for that Rickon’s story has to end
Matt,
Heh. This will meltdown the forums.(again) 🙂
I’ve always been a Jon/Sansa shipper. I don’t know why. I like what I’m reading so far.
I’m really excited about this season.
selena,
Funny thing is that I tought Rickon will live and be King in the North, before.
But this always left Sansa in a sort of limbo, I just can’t see a Regent, for what? 5-7 years? And then what?
But this really made me re-think my theories. And this is the conclusion I found most likely/plausible,…etc.
Ahh, the beauty of being flexible on how the story goes/should go. 🙂
Matt,
I think I just died a little on the inside…
DO NOT CLICK.
Wow Matt! Crap…there goes
That’s absurd! You must get angry when the show (or the books) doesn’t follow your preconceptions! It’s the way of the fanatic 😀
Robb Snow,
It’s not a new picture. It’s just that we now know it’s gonna be a known character.
Matt,
Can’t really make anything out.
Bearded Onion,
You mean as retarded as the Watch for killing their only chance against the Walkers? 😉
The Umbers may not be aware of how stark raving mad Ramsay actually is (they may think he is a more brutal Roose), just as the Watch is not aware how big the White Walker thread really is. This show (and the books) is really full of stupid decisions that come back to bite you in the ass. Ned threatening Cersei, Robb marrying Talisa, Sansa trusting Cersei, Theon betraying Robb, Oberyn getting close to the mountain, Viserys demanding things from Drogo … need I go on?
Fuck fuck fuck…
If Rickon has to die, please don’t ruin the entire North by making Umbers surrender him to Ramsay. It’s such piss poor writing if he does.
If Umber does betray the Starks, the audience will think the North never loved the Starks and that the Boltons were respected enough to side with. Apparently the Northern loyalists consists of Greatjon, one little girl and one old peasant woman, apparently Jon has enough men to appear out of nowhere. YET AGAIN RAMSAY gets everything without anything ever bad happening to him. Nice.
I love this show, but if this the path D&D want to go down, where logical storytelling are below making Ramsay the badass, untouchable villain and shock value, I simply want nothing to do with it.
Please, D&D, don’t do this crap. You both can be great writers, so please don’t reduce how important Northern Loyalty is in the Stark story line. All it does is make Sansa & Jon look like the most evil scumbags on earth who are so horrible the murderous traitor rapists seem like ideal allies. The Rivermen hold more loyalty to the bloody Starks for Christ’s sake.
I’m tired and kinda annoyed, I’ll need to think on all this later. But so far, for the first time, I’m let down by S6 news. It’s all been so awesome so far too.
.
Bearded Onion,
You’re getting ahead of yourself… Let’s wait to see if D&D do that “crap that ruins the show” before being annoyed by it, shall we?
Wait, is it really him…?
Bearded Onion,
You mean as retarded as killing the only thing that stands between you and the White Walkers? 😉
The Umbers may not know how stark raving mad Ramsay is (they may think he is a more brutal Roose), just as the Watch is not aware of how much of a threat the White Walkers are.
And anyway, this show (like the books) is full of stupid-ass decisions that come back to bite you in the arse. Think Ned threatening Cersei, Robb marrying Talisa, Sansa betraying Ned, Theon betraying Robb … need I go on?
I will be sad for Rickon because he’s an innocent kid, but I’m not at all invested in his character. For the story, it’s better to have Sansa Queen in the North than him King. It would be a shame if her sole purpose was to stay in her brother’s shadow.
And as much as Ramsay is a total monster, I will also be sad to see Iwan Rheon go. I already knew him ( and loved him) before GOT, but he really impressed me in Ramsay’s role.
Name *,
Why is it so hard to get footage of wun-wun on set I don’t get it
Hmm, seem to not be able to post at all. Test?
Edit: Ok, seems that just the last post disappeared. Can’t think why, but by now it’s probably a triple post. Sorry for that.
Bearded Onion,
He’s a bastard though. No king has legitimised his claim since stannis is dead. See it from umber’s eyes he’s a bastard who foresook his oath (no one will believe he died and came back to life) and also has an army of wildlings (who he allowed to come south).
God of tits and wine,
Is that a joke? 😛
Anyway, just in case: the giants are real life actors, and quite tall too… but not tall enough to be giants. So this is not a dragon situation exactly. It’s more like the direwolves: they are shot on green screen rooms and then added into the scenes, made to look much larger than they actually are.
I think if anybody burns in those Bolton crosses that it will be either roose/walda- because that would send a message of chaos to the Northmen, and that Ramsay is not The Lord of the north. Or possibly rickon/roose- effectively making Ramsay lord and sending some pretty mindfucked signals to everyone. Osha- not important enough, shaggydog- would you want to be the guy to try and put shaggy dog on a cross? Fuck that, shaggydog will not be taken alive unless caged. Davos- maybe, but who would that really impact? Mel- has much more purpose left to serve: don’t see it happening/too crafty/would enjoy the fire lol.
Maybe Sansa, maybe not- I don’t think she would know how to rule or lead the north.
Now direwolves could die in battle, and those are Starks. Davos, tormund, edd, etc. are possibilities to die in battle.
If jon had to put ghost down after being injured badly in the battle, that could be a decent lightbringer moment. Having to sacrifice/mercy kill the thing that matters most to you is a prerequisite to forge lightbringer lol. What a fucked up story lol
Bearded Onion,
The Umbers turning over Rickon to Ramsey is just speculation.. and there are many more ways Ramsey can get his hands on him (which I would agree would be “better” storytelling) so dont give up yet!!!
actually..I could very easily see whats left of the NW send a raid on Last Hearth if they find out Rickon is there and promise him to The Boltons in exchange for help against The Wildings. This might lead to a “pink letter” type of situation which leads to SnowBowl and what happens to Rickon there
It’s not looking good for Rickon so far.. that cross is damning,
I’ll accept Ramsay ambushing Rickon and imprisoning him, but Umber, after holding Rickon in safety for so long and clearly plotting to use him, handing him over and siding Ramsay simply because Jon is using some refugees is completely stupid. If that’s the case, just fuck up Jon WITHOUT giving Rickon?? Why give him up after looking after him? All you need to do to show your loyalty to Roose is by sending your army to crush Jon, you still get to keep Rickon. It makes no sense. Just none.
I honestly believe D&D aren’t going to have Umber side with Ramsay, I think he’ll be the one to give the NR speech to Jon & Sansa and provide a massive amount of soldiers to them. Karstark, the other cast lord will side with Ramsay. That’s enough. That’s 100% logical, since Robb beheaded Rickard. I think the extra guy was talking complete shite and that the Umbers will have their own formation with the umber sigils there, this is meant to be a giant army remember, not just Jon and some dudes in a cramped photo.
It is great to finally have confirmation about a true Stark reunion. I really wonder how much time they will spent together before the battle.
It does seem as if the Umbers might take up the role as the Manderlys. I could see them declaring for the Boltons and then deflecting at some critical point. There are two Umber armies in the books one inside Winterfell and one on the outside. The problem for them is that GreatJon Umber is a hostage.
Of course there will be death at the battle. One of the new Northern Lords will definitely die, both could possibly die.
Rickon is an interesting one, he is sort of a place holder character. I ve always thought that he is either being kept alive to become the Lord of Winterfell at the end, or he is only there to be killed off at some stage. It would not surprise me if he gets killed in this battle. He is a Stark and a young kid, people will be emotionally invested.
I dont think they can kill Tormund at this stage because he is the only Wildling we have a connection with. Edd might just stay at the Wall. Melisandre still has more to do. Davos is someone that I think might die, it doesn’t seem like there is much left for him to do.
Just like there where no reports and sights of White Walkers, so to do I believe we will not see the Vale. This is a battle for the North.
Unlike a vast majority of speculators/hopefuls, I doubt Ramsay will die in any dramatic fashion, if at all, especially this season. I can just see him stepping on a nail and getting tetanus, or accidentally falling off a horse, much to the disappointment of the masses. 😉
I think I’m having memory loss – have the Boltons always burned their captives? I just remember the flayed bodies on display.
Obviously there are ‘insiders’ who know who the 2 are, and I’m willing to bet that those who want to find out will sooner than later. There is always someone willing to divulge it. Which is welcome to me, as I read the last pages of books first.
I have grown very fond of Liam’s Davos and would hate it to be him. The list of people I wouldn’t ‘mind’ is pretty short as well….
Somehow I think that Rickon is safe, and will be a player at the end. Just rewatched the scene from “The Rains of Castamere”, Season 3, Ep 9, with Bran, Rickon, Osha, Hodor, Jojen and Meera in the grain tower, before Bran heads north of the Wall; (and minutes before the Red Wedding.) There is so much foreshadowing that came true from the following segment, where Bran tells Rickon he’s going to be heir, that I believe it was deliberately put into the audience mind so we would accept it:
Bran: When I was looking through Hodor’s eyes, I saw Jon.
Rickon: Where?
Bran: He was with the Wildings. They tried to kill him but he got away.
Osha: He’ll be heading back to Castle Black, then. That’s where we should go.
Bran: For all we know, Castle Black is already under attack. With this many Wildings …
Osha: I already told you, I’m not going north of the Wall.
Bran: Everything Jojen told me is true. You saw what I did to Hodor. I have to find the Three-eyed Raven … Don’t worry, I’m not asking you to come with me. It won’t be safe for Rickon.
Rickon: Me? I’m coming with you!
Bran: No, you and Osha and Shaggydog head for the Last Hearth. The Umbers are our bannermen. They’ll protect you.
Rickon: I’m coming with you. I’m your brotha. I have to protect you.
Bran: Right now, I have to protect YOU. Robb’s at war, and I’m going beyond the wall. If something happens to us, you’re the heir to Winterfell. You know how to find the Last Hearth?
Osha: You Southerners build your big castles and you never move. You’re easy to find.
The “easy to find” Umbers might also be a clue as to where Sansa might head, since she would have heard stories all her life about the Umbers.
We had a lot of interesting stuff on paper last year, and most of them were just “meh” or underused when it aired…
Luka Nieto,
It’s fucking Olly… It’s fucking Olly…..Fuck.
Thronetender,
Yes, a strong villain is needed but Ramsay has always been over-the-top evil, IMO. If the story calls for a villain in the North, I prefer his daddy…there is more shading and subtlety with Roose.
Matt,
I really wish that I had not clicked that link.
Thronetender,
Thank you for posting this, gives me great hope. That’s a example of D&D doing awesome work too. 🙂
Please be okay Rickon, it was hard enough with Shireen burning.
I think you’ve nicely stated why those characters cannot die yet, but I disagree about Davos. At the end of season 3, when Stannis wants him executed, Melisandre says he still has a part to play. So far, I don’t think he’s done anything all that important. I think he will be critical in helping Jon unite or try to unite the rest of Westeros for the White Walker invasion.
Ramsay will not kill Roose. Ramsay respect his father a lot. Thats so clear in the series, and Roose is not a idiot to dont know who Ramsay is.
The options for the 2. Burning deaths are big:
Edd
Tormund
Davos
Rickon
Osha
Melissandre
Some north lord
Walda ( not for me)
Ramsay baby brother ( not for me)
Litllefinger(not for me)
Royce (not for me)
Brienne(not for me)
Podrick(not for me)
And i think one bolton will escape. Dont know if roose or ramsay.
lol this guy.
No, Rickon is not one of the burning cross people.
The Smalljon’s being in only two episodes effectively rules that out, in my opinion.
Pigeon,
No, he doesn’t usually burn his victims as far as I know. It’s something Stannis and Mel would do though, and it might be kind of a way to mock Stannis’s memory.
It could also be that Davos and Mel are on those crosses since he chose to burn them…
Sue the Fury,
Oh thank god. Doom cancelled (I hope).
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!
S6 IS AWESOME AGAIN… WOOOO!
Sue the Fury,
Interesting. I wonder who it will be then. I’m guessing you know… though you probably won’t tell 😛
Anyway, a Stark remanining alive is always good news! So who will it be, then? Not Sansa, surely. Whose death could send a message to the Stark Loyalists?
Maybe Rickon’s not even with the Umbers. We only know that’s where Osha and Rickon were planning on going. We never got confirmation that they made it there on screen.
I think that the fact that Ramsay sets the bodies on fire is significant. I think they would only be displayed like this if it was demoralising to Jons army, so it must be someone he’s closely associated with. I doubt another Stark death is on the cards in the season Jon rises from the dead, so I think Sansa and Rickon ate safe. It’s probably Tormund, Stannis, Davos, Melisandre or possibly Smalljon Umber.
Why ramsay burns the bodies is telling, he usually just flays them and leaves them to the birds. I think he’s trying to mock Rhlorr, possibly hearing about what happened to Shireen, or how he helped Jon back to life. A final possibility could be Roose – there’s no report of him so far doing any commanding in this battle.
Seriously, I thought we would have to argue for 8 months until June, this is such a relief…
Now, the list narrows..
What if it’s Benjen guys.
Oh. Can we carry on speculating different people and you carry on denying them so that eventually the people who you don’t deny will be the ones who burn?
Really?
Wow. Please, tell us Sansa isn’t burning.
Name *,
That may be a good plan 😛
Well, that is expected in any season of GoT, especially with quite a few new characters coming in.
I haven’t yet finished reading ALL the comments, but I must say, the situation in the North is turning out to be uber messy and powerful. I wonder if the battle starts with Umbers and others vs. Boltons. Then Jon comes in with his Wilding army, and this – that Wildings who the Watch is supposed to keep north of the Wall, is being led by a member of the Nightwatch, Jon – sets up the Umbers to join the Boltons. That will lead to a civil war situation in the North. Is it possible that early in the season Sansa is taken by Brienne to the RL, and that is where she persuades others to travel back to the North to fight the Boltons? I am also starting to wonder if Jon and Sansa will be allies or enemies in the big mess. 😮 As for the bodies being burned, they will not show Shaggydog burning on American TV, lol! 😀 It has to be humans.
Sue the Fury,
Thank you. I can relax now.
Nope, she’s seen with Jon.
Also her arc still has to deal with LF aswell as other stuff. Sansa isn’t dying here.
LMFAO….so it would seem.
Name *,
Heh, I was surprised Sue said anything for precisely that reason.
I didn’t read back so I’m sorry if I’m kicking in an open door (as we say in Dutch), but I highly doubt that any of the two bodies is someone who dies during the battle. That would mean Ramsay would have to grab the two bodies in the heat of battle, tie them to an X, put the X’s in a good position and light them on fire. Even 20 good men can’t do that in the heat of battle. 😉
This means that my guess is that Roose and Walda are on those crosses. Ramsay is crazy enough to show the world that he is willing to kill his own family for his own good.
He can of course put up the crosses after he’s actually won the battle, but I’m fairly sure he’ll lose, if only because of a business perspective: the audience is fed up with Ramsay.
Some houses take’s the wife’s name when she’s much more important… They can refuse to be called by the husband name. Do you remember a time in which Cersei is called “Cersei Baratheon” or similar?
Some northern lords maybe prefer Sansa as Stark ruler since Bran is disappeared, Rickon is a child, Arya is younger and presumible dead and Jon is more Targaryen than a Stark.
Or Sansa can has bastards and then, legitimize them. That would be poetic, regarding what happened with Jon and Cat.
Or she can just say “screw this, we’re gonna put Dornish law here”! Actually she seems to be the heir of half Westeros XD
LOL. Sansa is not going to be burned in battle. I personally think she will survive the books and show, but if she was going to die, it wouldn’t be at Ramsay’s hands. He already completely violated her…and to be honest, he probably would keep her alive just to torture her. He would not kill her because that would be too easy. But seriously…some people make me LOL.
I bet a couple stark direwolves bite it during battle.
Maybe after reviving jon Mel has more influence and convinces jon to burn roose and Ramsay on their on sigil.
Please be Rickon!
Haha, a whole day of wasted speculation 🙂
80 percent of the comments here pointed to Rickon just because of those “Reddit rumors”.
Eggs on all your faces!
Mihnea,
Yeah, they have also set that up with Ramsay getting called out by Roose for flaying those minor lords last year.
I jus can’t take any more direwolf killings and child burnings 🙁
Wun Wun, yay! I’m getting all kind of crazy mayhem shots in my head now. Him throwing men and horses around like ragdolls.
Carne,
That’s gonna be so great. Wun Wun’s gonna wreck shit.
Sansa stans wet dreams. THIS, PLEASE.
Ricky Champ who plays one of the outlaws favorited a tweet about meeting Paul Kaye in Belfast. So this confirms it’s the Brotherhood without Banners.
https://twitter.com/MelissaRogers27/status/659304526495789056
mitch,
Seldom have I been so pleased to be so wrong.
Sue the Fury,
Thank you from the bottom of my heart
MELISANDRE(to Stannis, but it all happens with Jon, because he is the real hero): I have seen myself walk along the battlements of Wintefell. I have seen the flayed men banners lowered to the ground.
Mel is in safe.
Edd neither. He will stay at the Wall. ”Edd…you have the Wall. #2”
Robb Snow,
Same. It made sense to me, but obviously it didn’t exactly made me happy. I described it as “disturbing” in my first post, after all! Shit, now I want the little kid to definitely survive the season. What a rollercoster of a day.
Sue, do you know if this pic is legit?
http://i.imgur.com/OeW7OcI.jpg (SPOILER)
mitch,
Well, to be fair, Rickon not burning on the cross doesn’t mean that he doesn’t die during the battle…
It could mean that we have even more casualties than we thought…!
Nevermind, it’s not Rickon.
Selina,
I know you didn’t ask me, but sure, it’s real. It’s taken from this picture, reported on this website weeks or maybe even months ago.
Nevermind my last, the previous convo didn’t load on my phone
Considering upper-body strength and her lack of any skill, she’d probably make a Theon-esque hash of that. Though that would presumably just make it more painful.
Jack,
I really would not consider that a confirmation.
Are we 100% positive that Ramsay is doing the burning? I’m quite fond of the idea that Ramsay and Roose get burned on their own crosses.
Who do you think it is in the pic?
How I think this will go:
1. Jon is revived fairly early in the season. Mel sticks to Jon like glue ‘coz she finally figured that he’s the Prince that was promised.
2. Sansa goes straight to Castle Black ‘coz Ramsey already told her last season that Jon is the Lord Commander. Theon goes off to attend Kingsmoot. Jon and Sansa reunite; Mel contemplates her fellow redhead and delivers an enigmatic smile.
3. Jon/Sansa send Davos to look for Rickon. He finds him with the Umbers. Jon, Sansa and Rickon reunite. We get our first CGI of more than one Direwolf at a time in a long while with the Ghost and Shaggydog reunion.
4. Rickon is a great young man, a paragon of Virtue, Robb part II, basically, and Jon and Sansa looove him (yea, he’s doomed.)
5. Someone betrays someone and Rickon and Shaggydog +/- Osha are captured by Ramsey ( who by this time has already killed Roose and Walda.)
6. Jon and Sansa rally the Northern Lords to rescue Rickon, who by this point for all I know may have been proclaimed King in the North already (just like Robb, you know.)
7. Episode 9. The Boltons are actually winning the Battle so far. Rickon and Shaggydog burn in the Bolton crosses. Jon, being the Silent Hero Type, rushes off with Ghost into the night towards Winterfell; Sansa delivers her “Queen Elizabeth” speech; just before or after this, Littlefinger shows up with the Vale forces; The tide of the Battle turns and the Stark/Vale forces prevail. Sansa is proclaimed Queen in the North. Littlefinger smiles his “yes, everything is proceeding according to my Master Plan” smile…
8. Episode 10. Sansa and Littlefinger talk at Winterfell, he states that they have the Vale, you know, and that It ain’t such a stretch to think that Sansa could be Queen of all Seven Kingdoms, after they get rid of those pesky Lannisters that killed your family. Littlefinger offers Sansa to be her Hand of the Queen. Jon looks over the horizon at the Winterfell battlements and contemplates what to do about the White Walkers ( some people still don’t believe him !!!). Mel walks the battlements at Winterfell and smiles enigmatically at Jon…
(All pure speculation, of course.)
This is pretty much confirming Stoneheart, no?
How you know 100% sure it’s not Rickon, Sue?
Olly and Thorne
Oh, well, I guess Sue says it’s not Rickon, lol. A lot of my spec still works though, even if it’s not him burning…
And that’s bad because…?
No, seriously, you don’t need to decapitate anybody. Arya is really tiny and non-skilled (we never see her in a real combat) and she killed Pollyvar with a fencing sword. I think Sansa can handle it in that way (such a pity there’s no Ice or even Oathkeeper).
Sue the Fury,
Phew! Now if the Umbers supporting the Boltons would be debunked. Hype level restored by 35-40%. 🙂
I quite like your speculation!
Wimsey,
The battle will have quite a few noble houses siding with stark and to capture couple of their head can have demoralizing effect on their resp. armies.
Thank you for clearing that up, Sue! That is very good to know.
I completely understand not spelling out who’s on the cross for the sake in order to preserve the mystery and protect sources. Still, when the speculation becomes as fervent as it has in this case, it’s nice to have a bit more clarity in order to be sure we don’t stray too far into the weeds.
I think Sansa would need to aim a bit… lower with a blade to truly exact justice on Ramsay.
RG,
RG,
Haha! My father´s initials are RG!
glad to know lil Rickon is safe! after what happened last season, i think it was easy for most viewers to believe another kid would be murdered horribly.
btw spoiler says AT LEAST two….so could be 3-4 people, two of which are more known. I like the convoy idea someone threw out. Jon/Other side sends a convoy and Ramsay decides to show his true nature to the rest of the north. I think killing a convoy is very much sending a msg to Jon’s side. THus these characters dont need to be super big/major.
Luka Nieto,
Okay. Thanks.
So there are spoilers provided, but details intentionally left out? … make use of spoiler tags and include all of the information .. some of us actually love spoilers 🙂 it actually doesn’t ruin a show for me, it increases my anticipation.. SOME things I may not want to know, so blocking that off with a spoiler tag would be perfect..
I personally want to know who dies in the battle, who’s on the crosses.. At least we know Jon is there.
JohnDoe,
This was my first thought. :'(
Sue the Fury,
Oh thank goodness! 🙂
Good. It is not him. Less worried.
Hype Man Baelish,
No.
Mr Fixit,
Let’s hope so. They are taking the Manderly role already in terms of Rickon. Why not the rest 🙂
mitch,
Nope. Don’t frequent Reddit. Just jumped to my personal worst case scenario. And no speculation is ever wasted–it’s fun!
“A time for Wolves”: GRRMs original title for ADOS is pretty indicative of this.
Can’t wait to see Smalljon drop the hammer and dispense some indiscriminate justice!
Hype Man Baelish,
Damn.Looks like MEL!
Thronetender,
Try and catch S1, 2 and 3 of Misfits, he’s absolutely brilliant in it! His character, Simon is the polar opposite of Ramsay….
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1548850/episodes?season=1&ref_=tt_eps_sn_1
Boudica:
It does seem as if the Umbers might take up the role as the Manderlys.
Ding Ding!
As I said in the other thread, I personally think overcomplicating this Umber/Stark/Bolton story thread, is futile.
The Umbers have officially stood in for the Manderlys since Osha and Rickon were sent to them in season 3.
Now trace the Manderly arc in the books.
Now do the math with the Umbers on the show.
Fini.
mitch,
No, not because of Reddit – I haven’t read those – but because I thought it the most likely. First, Rickon’s death would incite Jon like almost nothing else could. Second, his death would be shocking, yet he isn’t one of the few characters we still relate to, so in a way he is expendable. Third, I see Sansa end up in Winterfell, and the story would do her a great disservice if it made her Rickon’s regent and then advisor. Very anticlimactic. Fourth, it would be much more dramatic than, say, a pair of Nights Watchmen, whoever they may be. If this is truly going to be the scene to end all scenes, Olly and Nights Watchman #3 are not going to cut it. To sum up, Rickon dying this way makes a lot of sense dramatically and narratively.
But oh well, I guess I’ll have to adjust my expectations and think of different plausible ways the story might end.
BTW it’s just ridiculous to just tease and not tell us the names if u guys have them.Why is every scene is being confirmed and spoiled then if keeping mystery is the reason.Are they not important spoilers.Was Tower joy video posted here not a BIG spoiler? Was Jaime pics with tyrel soldiers and marg converted not a big spoiler? I can go on and on! Just unreasonable!
Guys. Just an idea. What if the two bodies is Ghost and Shaggydog and Ramsay just want to represent the fall of the Starks with the direwolves.
SlayerNina,
Jon more Targ than Stark? I disagree…He has been shaped by the North in many ways…He might be a true Targ but his heart lies in the North and his love with the Starks
Yeah, the North as a whole wouldn’t. But for Sansa (and Jon), they might feel a bit differently in light of his recent actions. Especially if the reason he is recaptured is something heroic (ex. enabling Sansa to escape while being pursued after their wall jump last season).
I have felt every since Season 3, when Theon told Ramsay that he chose the wrong father, that Theon’s arc would end with some form of redemption.
Piyush Sharma,
Characters death are too much as far as spoilers go I guess. And it could get TWOW and their sources (people who signed confidential contracts with HBO) in trouble. While the others spoilers were video and photos from people who just happened to be in the neighborhood of the sets.
dee,
I still think Rickon will die during the battle even if he’s not one of the burning corpses.
BeautyBrinne,
I agree that the action will pick up right where we left off, just think it might take a while for the pieces to come in place for this battle.
Also, Stannis/Selyse were hardly widely supported by the northern lords, I am unsure how much they will care about his being burned. Idk even how much Davos/Jon and co will care, considering a certain burning incident from last season.
We already know that Theon
, so he won’t be recaptured by Ramsay.
Piyush Sharma,
1. How is ToJ a spoiler since you can read it in book 1?
2. Jaime in the capital isn’t that much of a spoiler since that’s where he was headed.
3. Two major deaths occurring in the 9th episode and then confirming who they are IS too big a spoiler. If there’s one thing you don’t do, it’s spoiling deaths.
4. I do agree she shouldn’t have said it isn’t Rickon. This isn’t supposed to be a guessing game.
It has to be someone whose death would send a significant message to the Bolton’s foes:
– Rickon, as he is the heir to Winterfell
– Some Stark loyalists and Jon supporters like Sansa, Edd, Tormund, Davos…
– Littlefinger and Sweetrobin if the Vale army is defeated and LF’s betrayal is discovered before the Battle of the Bastards starts (very unlikely)
The following characters can be ruled out:
– Brienne and Pod (as they are in the Riverlands by 6×08)
– Theon and Yara (as they return to the Iron Islands this season)
– Melisandre (because of her vision of walking on the battlements of Winterfell after the Bolton banners are pulled down)
– Roose and Fat Walda (Ramsay would not kill his father publicly and it would seem like the Boltons are quarrelling and weak. What kind of message would that be?! 😀 )
– Thorne and the NW nationalists (they have nothing to do with this battle and Jon would not be angry over their deaths)
My money is on Rickon along with someone hiding or protecting him like Osha, Davos, Shaggydog (if you consider him a “character”) or maybe even Smalljon Umber, if he is betrayed by someone from his House and the Umbers switch sides afterwards. Rickon being killed by Ramsay is something that could happen in the books, too.
Maybe Davos brings him home from Skagos only to run into the Boltons after Stannis is defeated. They would want him dead, as he is the last trueborn Stark who could be a danger to their rule over the North. Ramsay's political marriage to FArya/Sansa to win over the Stark loyalists would have been useless if a male heir resurfacesLike it or not, but Rickon is only a side character and I always thought he is too young to have a serious impact on the story. Showing his body burning on a cross would discourage Jon and the Stark loyalists in the battle. But if they defeat the Boltons and Rickon is dead at that point, that would fortify Jon’s claim to Winterfell and the Northmen would rally behind him and respect him like a “real” Stark.
Luka Nieto,
So just comparing the size of that body to other people – it’s not really a child; looks like an adult to me. And doesn’t look like it’s Fat Walda either 😉
Phil Necro,
If Ramsay touches those direwolves, his next problem will be ME!
Another character we know also displayed the burned bodies of “2 known characters”. but they didnt turn out to be said known characters.
ok, so if Rickon is not on one of Ramseys Welcome to Winterhell signs…back to square one again with the speculation.. and now I am truly worried about my man Davos :/
I don’t know if anyone else has said this yet, but I think that it is extremely likely that the body on the burning cross is Robyn Arryn. It is crystal clear that the picture is legit and has a small boys (maybe) body. The only other small boy of matter on the show is either Rickon or Olly. Rickon has been confirmed to not be on the cross by Sue and Olly makes absolutely no sense to be burned by Ramsay. The only other possibility I could think of is that the small boy who is burned is a child or small brother of a Stark loyalist like the Karstarks, Umbers, or Mormonts that forces them to betray the Starks, but I think that is kind of weak because I think it would just enrage Northern loyalists if Ramsay killed their kin. Thoughts?
JohnDoe,
I kinda forgot just how enormous that crucifix is. He could be an adult. He could still be a child, though. Not Rickon, as Sue has said it’s not him.
Erik,
You could be right.
That person who tweeted him is trouble- she messaged me and several others a few weeks ago claiming she worked for HBO and asked me to pretend I’d seen Michelle Fairley in Belfast to get the hype rolling. Totally CA- rayzee!
Grenouille,
That would make sense. Or he dies later, but definitely before the end. Or maybe he doesn’t want to rule in Winterfell. That would be ok with me, since I really don’t want any more Starks to die. I just think that GRRM won’t be so kind.
Ah, but that doesn’t meant that Shaggydog isn’t one of the cross peop….
oh.
Never mind!
Seriously, just when Luka was starting to persuade me it was plausible!
Dragonslayer,
They were both in Moneyglass (WF set) in the first week o August. I saw a photo on Instagram he’s in there and a tweet that his trailer was there as well.
Sullied by Knight,
For Real….if Ramsey gets his hands on Ghost he wont have to worry about dealing with Jon cause IMMA come through the screen and kill him..
dont mess with the Wolves..*Im looking at you Walder Frey..yours is coming**
Black Aly,
There goes that theory. Must have missed that.
Wimsey,
I still think it was plausible. It’s just not gonna happen 😛
More probably it is an allusion to the “Ragnarok” coming up as well as to the “hour of the wolf” when all is darkest and the metaphorical or real wolf is at your door. Only this will not be an hour: it’s an extended time.
Erik,
Mainly that it’s very difficult to picture how Robin would ever end up in that position. There’s also nothing indicating the Valemen are even at this battle, which you would think would be the case if Ramsay had somehow kidnapped their liege lord.
Wimsey,
The use of wolf symbolism has a pretty consistent meaning in this series.
Luka Nieto,
Well, we know he’s doesn’t end his days strapped to a burning cross. We don’t know if he survives the battle. The jury’s still out on that one.
That would make little sense. One, Robyn Arryn is nobody to the Wildlings or the Northerners. Two, why would Robyn be there?
The person on it has adult proportions. Now, it could be a teen: but the arms and legs are longer relative to the torso and head that you typically see on preteens. (Of course, none of the “kids” are preteens anymore!)
Of course, Olly could be a possibility if it is the Night’s Watch that Ramsay is cooking.
Mr Fixit,
True enough.
I hope GRRM goes back to his original title….as a sort of complement to “A Dance with Dragons”
Hype Man Baelish,
More like *maybe* confirming that Thoros of Myr will make a reappearance. The characters those two are playing clearly sound like the Brotherhood gone bad (like robbing from the poor bad, not hanging Freys for revenge bad) so maybe Thoros is a part of that. He was clearly willing to sell out Gendry for gold. This is probably a continuation of that.
I just don’t think Lady Stoneheart is appearing, or even needs to.
I don’t believe they would (or could) get a direwolf on the cross (alive at least) they would just kill it (from a safe distance) and cut off it’s head.
Sean C.,
He accompanies LF on his trip North for some reason?
The Robyn Arryn theory only makes sense in the context that maybe the Vale arrive in WF earlier in the season and learn that Sansa is gone. (LF has to do something all season, right?) LF threatens to leave and Boltons take Robyn hostage and Royce agrees to help defend WF because they are over a barrel. But then LF goes to meet w/ Sansa and the Northerners and Ramsay finds out so he burns Robyn, which seems like a very Ramsay thing to do. It would get the Vale to side w/ the North and would make for interesting power dynamics over the Vale if Robyn is out of the picture in S7. Not saying it’s gonna happen, just that I can’t think of another small boy who may be on that cross that makes more sense.
if its not Rickon could it be ghost? could he and john get separated during the “for the watch” moment and some how Bolton gets a hold of ghost, i mean other then family and i guess the nights watch what else truly matters to john? i am unsure if Sam is still at the wall still but i guess if he were that would surely get an emotional response from john……
Hey
Everyone are totally certain that Rickon is toast. Some say that Tormund (which is plausible), some say that’s Edd or Sansa which is bollocks.
No one, NO ONE suspects that the burning person might be SMALLJON. He’s in the episode allright, and in the battle, but no one said what is his role. What if he actually helps Rickon and Osha to reunite with Davos and with Jon and his forces, and gets nailed for treason by Ramsay ? That’s sounds legit. And Umbers are the force leading the attack on Jon because:
1. They fear for their lives
2. They have archers of Boltons and Freys behind themselves
3. They are led by some distant unknown relative who hated Smalljon and disliked the Starks
4. They are basically forced to do that, because Ramsay raided Last Hearth and taken hostages
So in my opinion one of the burning men is Smalljon. The second one is Tormund/Davos for shock value – Tormund for the Wildlings, Davos for the loyalists.
I hope Jon isn’t the burning man!
I hope Jon isn’t on one of the crosses!
“Hour of the wolf” is used many times with no allusion to the Starks.
I am starting to think that this is the most likely scenario. They cant really show the complicated politics in the North, or what exactly the Manderlys and co was planning. By having the Umbers deflect from the Boltons at the right moment would add a curve to the story and replicate the situation within the books, without over complicating matters.
I am so happy to hear that Rickon will not be burning on a cross. Perhaps Ramsay might burn Walda, she is a Frey, Ramsay might think he would get more support for burning a Frey, and it also shows what he does against any competition to his claim.
dkd,
The direwolves are not characters.
Unless there is a lot of interactions between the Umbers and one of the main characters earlier that sets this up, it would just be arbitrary: and that never is a good thing.
I doubt that Ramsay is trying to win any friends on the other side when doing this. This probably is to inspire fear: or “shock and awe” as the US military likes to call it.
No, you couldn’t: you would shatter the breastbone of any dog, cat, etc., by crucifying them. Primates are a little unusual among mammals in that we can “flap” our arms: many mammals can only move them forward and backwards easily, with a much more limited range of “flapping” motion.
(Most dinosaurs are/were the other way around: they can/could “flap” but not move their arms “up” and “down” as much.)
I don’t see this as confirmation at all.. Just an actor being talked to and liking that and favoriting it regardless..
As for the two.. I’d loved/cried, if it were Rickon and Stannis.. As in Ramsay going: “Look at your dead kings!!!”
Zombies That Were Promised,
Nah. No way I think.
And who else has gotten blown up screen time right before their death? I don’t remember that happening to anyone on Thrones honestly. This isn’t the Walking Dead. Everyone’s screen time is usually fairly consistent. I guess Stannis had more screen time in season 5? But that was out of necessity.
Fez,
Actually, it was confirmed already that a Stark would be dying in this battle. Now, who’s the only Stark present whose storyline is basically over and who has no fighting experience whatsoever? It would make little sense for Jon to die AGAIN.
One thing that didn’t occur to me at first is the burning of the two victims seems like an intentional reference to Theon’s burning of the two orphan boys in Season 2. If Rickon isn’t one of the two victims, it still seems deliberate on Ramsay’s part to use that imagery to taunt the Northmen, and perhaps taunt Rickon specifically.
Who the victims are will still irk me for the entire off-season. Even if it’s not Rickon, it could still be other beloved characters. Someone stop Ramsay before he ends up killing the whole cast!
BluejayPrime,
Who confirmed that?
No, it was not confirmed. It was a rumor posted somewhere which was presented as fact. That is not a confirmation.
Wimsey,
For one time I was praying for your prediction comes true… the Gods heard me. I was almost sure that those would be Rickon and Osha (although Osha was not known by Sansa or Jon).
I’m happy that we will have a Sansa-Jon interaction.
Now I think that Ramsay will kill the last men in Castle Black.
Wimsey,
Why on earth do you keep insisting everyone has to recognize Rickon, including the army? Everyone will know and be told it’s Rickon Stark, and that would be a HUGE blow to the Northern armies and the viewers. Even if the viewers haven’t spent the last 2 years with Rickon, he’s a Stark, and the viewers love the Starks.
And I’m not sure what storyline Rickon will have but it’s not clear it will be a huge one. His death would be more impactful, if it comes.
TheMannis,
BluejayPrime,
That was never confirmed. or mentioned anywhere so stop fanfictioning.
Tormund, Wun Wun are going to die. I just hope all our Starks are gonna make it through.
With respect, why is no-one noting that there is a perfectly legitimate duo tied at the hip to Sansa Stark who might therefore be present at the battle, and should be considered as the possible victims burning on Ramsey’s crosses –
Brienne of Tarth & Podrick Payne.
Sorry – but if one goes by the books, we last saw them dangling at the end of ropes: if the GoT Series’ end point, as show runners have stated, is largely the same as in the books, (if arrived at by different routes), it might further the point that they might be the pair on the crosses.
Guys , what if one person on the cross was the greatjon ? He’s still alive on the show, maybe Ramsey burns him to taunt smalljon and umbers, second person has to be someone connected to Jon … I’m thinking Davos, or edd, maybe even Benjen
*Hugging her puppy and crawling out from underneath the blankets*
So… not Rickon?? *sniff* But than means in must be something more horrible, this if GoT we’re talking about…
“The battlefield has a few Starks, actually, if you count Jon.”
Sansa + Jon does not equal a few. So Rickon should still be there, unless Bran or Arya magically teleport in.
So… which side is Rickon on – the Bolton side? It’s not the Snow Bowl or Bastardbowl it’s the North VS the Wildlings! Whhhaaa! All of the North WOULD rise against that turncoat/zombie bastard Jon Snow and his army of wildlings that stole Sansa Stark from the rightful Lord of Winterfell and has Davos by his side…
WTF my brain is mush…
So who is burning now… I’m going to say Tormund and Wun Wun?
Bill H.,
No. Brienne is heading to riverrun late in the season and also in the books we last see her telling Jaime that the hound is holding sansa hostage and escorts him off eerily.
Bill H.,
Geralt of Rivia,
They better not.
I can’t wait to see the look on the Bolton mens’ faces when they see a goddamn giant coming at them. Hopefully the sheer level of fear Wun Wun inspires will see him through the battle in one piece.
What about Melisandre? She did say she saw Bolton banners burning. What if she herself was one of those banners? If you play with fire…
But at the same time, there’s a reason I don’t want it to be her. She told Arya that they’d meet again, and I really hate dropped plot points and meaningless foreshadowing.
Nobody better touch Wun Wun.
I’m not fucking kidding.
Leave. Wun Wun. Alone!!!
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Ramsay would flay them. That is the only thing holding me back from being 100% on Rickon and Osha. Would GoT go as far as showing a flayed kid? I guess so, they showed burned kids?
BaelorBalerionBaelish,
dkd,
Sam went on his way to oldtown to become a maester last season
Still got more to read I’m at the 6:30 mark.
Not sure if the picture posted of the X is legit, but if it’s used to unnerve Jon and Davos, it could be Shireens remains, Mel just lowered her eyes sadly and left Davos when he asked of her.
Going back to read.
lol excited and scared at the same time
Excited because Bran warging Wun Wun and taking part of the battle is a possibility
Scared because of who the two bodies on the crosses could be. My money is on one of them being Rickon and perhaps even Osha as well?
Sansa is interesting, technically she is legally married to Ramsay Snow
I don’t reckon this would happen in the books though as suggested by HtH plotline as I don’t she will ever go back North, I reckon she would go RL
Strangely though i can see her presiding over battlefields in the Riverlands over Tully/Arryn armies instead of Stark armies as she ascends to the position of Lady Lothston MkII out of Harrenhall, so I personally suspect they have merged the two seeing as they are down playing the Vale plots
So for mine 6 armies means
Boltons
Karstarks
Starks
Wildlings
Umbers
Arryn
1) Rickon, betrayed and delivered to the Boltons by the Karstarks who hid them. Makes for a nice little sideplot into the Northern Conspiracy for the show.
2) —and wait for it, for this might be a big surprise for many — Howland Reed!
Yes, the one and only Sir-soon-to-appear-according-to-GeorgeRRMartin-Reed. Seem logical he’d eventually be captured by the Boltons and locked in the dungeons. Why Reed when Jon doesnt know him? Because Ramsay is a sadist, so Jon can probably save only one of the two burners, obviously losing Rickon because; Ramsay/a-hole (or Bran will force the choice with his tree magic, because that kid needs an arc with the flashback info) Scarred survivor Reed will then tell Jon his tale of woe.
Otherwise Littlefinger, although Jon doesnt give a shit about him. Maybe Uncle Benjen in a weird twist.
Have to say, from the perspective this isn’t a story about “good guys” vs “bad guys” but rather about “struggle”, it seems like an excellent mix,
Jon/Sansa will perhaps persevere but there is a devestating loss that suggests it will be bittersweet and typical Game of Thrones
I don’t reckon it is Mel burning of course, she would actually be protected by such a thing by R’hlorr for the same reason that Maestar Cressens poison didn’t work
No it is aimed not only to smash the morale of the Stark troops via a Rickon burning, but also aimed at the Wildlings IMO which is where Osha makes sense as it is telling them they aren’t welcome and one wonders if the show is channeling the Washer woman through Osha.
Needless to say this will be quite powerful symbolically given the Mance burning, plus the fact it is a burning and not a flaying is Ramsay giving it to Melisandre by sarcastically perverting her burning sacrifice trick
Forgot to also say OLLY
Bill H.,
Because other reports indicate they’re going to the Riverlands.
StandOzone,
I don’t really see how that Ramsay-attacking-Castle-Black scenario would play out. Where would Jon be in this? Why, on being revived, would he leave, given that between the Wildlings and Night’s Watch loyalists (Wildlings, mainly), he should comfortably be able to control the place? In the show, Thorne and co. number about a dozen, tops, and the full strength of the garrison is less than 50 men. Beyond which, Sansa’s overwhelmingly most likely destination is to go to Castle Black, too.
Lol, everyone will be shit scared of Bran Wun
As far as the now Icy Saintfield backdrop, my prediction is it is to film…
Ep10 finishing with the White Walkers smashing through the Wall and what remains of the Night’s Watch!!!!
So much excitement hype building for this season
Rickon/Osha was on my mind before I was even done reading that sentence, yeah. Y’never know, but… it seems likely.
EDIT: Wait, now I’m catching up and there’s a mod note with Sue saying otherwise. I’m so confused… and tired.
Actually, the OP of the ‘rumor’ thread stated that it was heavily suggested to them (from alleged friends who were extras) that Sansa dies. They were right about Sansa being at the battle. Now I’m afraid.
Ghost’s Lunch,
Just from the seeming pacing of Season 6, I think it’s too soon for the Wall to fall.
Okay, so, Rickon it isn’t.
Yeah, I’m worried for Sansa. Melisandre and Sansa burning, that’d be something. MeliSansa. Ramsay’s last two woman victims. Ugh, argh, I hope not. D:
Wouldn’t it make sense that it’s Theon and Sansa?
All I said was “No, Rickon is not one of the burning cross people.” That’s it. Seems like I’m being misquoted in a few places already.
SlayerNina,
Jon is more Targ than Stark? He will always be more Stark than Targ. If you mean him being legitimized Targ. We don’t know if they were married.
Akash Singh,
Sansa chopping off Ramsay’s head sounds great, but she probably never held a sword in her hand. Even Theon almost screwed up Ser Rodrik’s beheading.
Ingelheim,
What’s up wit this Jon/Sansa ship. It’s not the first I’m seeing this. She is basically like a sister to him and them together as a couple ewww. It’s beyond awful.
What about Ghost? Any news about him? I would like to see him and Shaggydog running riot on that battlefield.
Robb Snow,
That would be priceless. 😀
Tormund is our only recognizable wildling leader, but it depends on how much of a role wildlings would play in the future. I can see him going out like a badass in the battle. That fake script says that Ramsay will kill him and then Jon vs Ramsay. It might happen. They will most likely gonna follow Jon anywhere (Jon will be their leader basically) and Tormund might be expendable. Wun Wun is gonna wreck some shit, but I can see him taking out a lot of Bolton soldiers. I would like him to survive. Because he is most likely the last giant out there.
Well that was how it worked in the books, the situation was setup when Manderly revealed his plans and give that speech to Davos. They could do something similar, but it would remove some of the suspense for television.
Mister Stoneheart,
We’re of the same thinking. Stannis & Selyse.
Do we need to use spoilers when there is no reference to anything published?
This is a pure read of a situation, and how I see people responding. That is taken from the books, I’ll admit.
Roose will, without doubt, send people out to find what happened to Stannis, and they’ll also find Selyse. It’s a hollow victory without those bodies on display, in the traditional Bolton manner. Upside down on X-crosses indicates this.
Ramsey would be too busy gloating and telling how many he’d slain. Roose, on the other hand, would query how Stannis was beheaded, when he’s surrounded by slain of both sides. Selyse would also show signs of having hung herself.
Roose, more than Ramsey, has all to gain with this display. Ramsey seems more likely to be the one to torch the bodies as a prelude to this sensational sounding battle.
Thanks for the hint, I’ll check it out, probably in January or February when I absolutely have to see any cast member in action to make the days before April go faster.
LOLOL Agreed!
No, according to the smallish figure shown attached to that X in the picture, both Tormund and Wun Wun are Wayyyy too tall to be that corpse. Besides:
For some reason, I read it as two bodies that have meaning to Jon, which would discount those two.
OMG could not agree more. He is absolutely brilliant in Misfits! It’s part of the reason I keep hoping Ramsay might have a little bit of a redemption arc. And a great musician as well.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LyEzfTiHLYg
Newbietothegame,
Brienne & Pod will be in Riverlands. It is known. Brienne meets Jaime. Bron meets Pod.
After reading all this…1 question…how is it know that the ball on a stick isn’t referring to direwolf/s being present instead of wun wun?if I remember correctly they use that contraption for all cg right?heck could be a dragon too
When you put it that way, I’m stressed now, too. I can almost – almost – deal with Sansa dying at the battle,but her being flayed and hung upside dow would be a shitty way to end her character arc, and, frankly, make no sense to what they’ve been building up. But I wouldn’t put it past them, which is what I both love and hate about this show. I’m still fingers crossed that she survives to the end, but I guess we’ll know more if Sophie ends up announcing movie roles next summer.
Which I suppose doesn’t exclude the possibility of his death, just not by a burning cross.
As for the identity of the burning bodies, I dunno why people keep guessing that it might be Brianne, Jaime or Pod, since we know from spoilers that they are in the Riverlands as of eps 7-8. It’s not Theon either since he’s off to his Iron Islands plot.
I would be more afraid for Sansa except that we have Liam Cunningham’s remarks about Sansa’s arc this season and the earlier spoilers about Aidan and Sophie filming a scene in Winterfell for this season; assuming that info was correct, the only place for such a scene would be after the Battle for Winterfell in late episode 9 or in episode 10…
Late to the speculative party. No time for 530 comments….. just a few. I am thinking Ramsay heads up to the wall looking for Sansa, and fucks up the nights watch. leaving it susceptible to WW’s… maybe they walk through the gate in ep10, perhaps mirroring Dany’s landing in westeros?
Could the flayed and burning characters be Davos and Mel? Perhaps Alliser and somebody else from the watch?? The bodies of Stannis and Selyse?
Who is he taunting? Northerners? Jon and the Wildlings? The answer likely hinges on this. I cannot accept that it is a Stark on the X.
When is the next X-Men movie coming out?
Sue: Are we 100% sure that Ramsay is doing the burning? Because it would be poetic justice if he’s burned on one of his own crosses. Along with Roose. If the pic is legit it certainly looks like that could be Sansa under the canopy. She’d really, really enjoy seeing Ramsay burn. And I think she’d be there to watch.
They have bigger fish to fry.
Jonquil Stark to the rescue!
Oh…oh! I think you are implying that Rickon may die in the battle, or earlier in the season, just not burnt on the cross. 🙁 Too bad for poor Rickon. Still totally clueless as to who the two burning cross people are. Tormund could be one. The other could be someone Edd. Poor Edd.
And again no, neither direwolf would be SHOWN strapped to a cross being burnt, on American TV. Lol! 😀
I find it quite funny how some random guy posts a fake spoiler on reddit and suddenly half the people talk about it like it’s a fact. “OMG, I didn’t see that coming, it must be true.”
Umbers betraying Starks to Boltons and Rickon being burned by Ramsay as a consequence is one of the most stupid ideas I’ve ever heard.
That’s right. He said “Sansa has a great arc this season”, which doesn’t sound like ending upside down on a cross.
Sometime in June, I think, right near the end of S6.
Ravyn,
OKay
Thank You.
Anyone got the link of the large pic. of the area where the burned person is at the quarry.
Thought it was here but can’t find it.
Kay,
Tormund or Edd makes no sense. They could die in the battle, but I honestly doubt that one or both of them wil die like that.
Wilber’s Forza Danza,
Yes, that makes some sense, since he could be using Stannis and Selye’s body to draw Jon out into a fight (doesn’t he taunt him with that in the Pink Letter?). Though Mel would know that Selyse wasn’t killed by Ramsay and would tell Jon, assuming she was able to.
There is absolutely no point in displaying Rickon’s corpse because almost everyone already thinks he’s dead, it won’t have a shocking message to the opposition, because they know he was killed alongside Bran by Theon.
Geone,
Another thing I wanted to add: I am pretty sure those “Bolton banners burning” that Mel saw are actually these people on Bolton crosses burning.
Geone,
Except Theon told Sansa Rickon was alive, and if she’s with Jon, obviously she told him. Kinda academic if Sue is right, anyway: It’s not Rickon on the cross.
I don’t disagree with you, but it would dramatically suck, for the simple reason that Rickon is the least interesting Stark, possibly the least interesting character in the entire saga. Heck, I’ll bet most casual viewers didn’t even notice he was gone. I’d love to see GRRM throw a curve ball and have Sansa be the leader of House Stark since all the boys are otherwise preoccupied.
Thinking about the situation a bit further perhaps there is a small chance (5%) that those corpses might belong to Roose and Walda.
I might be remembering incorrectly, but I think Vlad the Impaler used such a type of strategy successfully. He killed and then displayed some of his own troops to the enemy, and they were so demoralized and fearful by having to fight such an enemy that would treat his own men in such a manner, that they lost an almost sure victory. Ramsay and Walda could potentially be used in a similar fashion, but most likely not. It will properly be the new Northern Lords or perhaps even someone such as Greatjon?
Well, I’ve gone through the stages of Sansa Grief, and now I’m convinced more than ever she won’t die. I think Liam’s comment that she “has an amazing arc” sealed it for me. I’ll just hold onto what Vanity Fair is speculating, that she rises as the new red headed queen warrior a la Elizabeth for another six months.
Politically, he’s more a Targ than a Stark. And if he ended marrying Dany, being AA (the hero of a stranger religion) or ridinding a dragon, then the North…
SlayerNina,
We don’t know that for sure. Again there is no proof that he is a legitimate son and not just a bastard. AA is Daeny. Riding a dragon is right now far from happening if it ever happens. Viserion and Rhaegal are playing second fiddle and maybe if Dany take full control over Drogon. They might follow them their big brother and their mother. If he ends up marrying Daeny again it could go numerous ways. In his heart. Jon is more Stark and will always look up to Ned as his true father and North being his home.
Bill H.,
The last time we saw them was only Brienne talking with Jaime and carrying him to LSH “the Hound has a Stark”)…
So there is still a good chance Rickon dies, just not on the cross. Okay.
Well until we have further information, I will still think he will eventually die.
Just fits the story in my opinion. But again this means I need to re-think my speculations. Especially on Sansas story.
On-topic: I think Tormund will be one to be killed by Ramsey, perhaps there is a skirmish before the actoull battle where he is cought.
Why they will burn/flay him? Well he is a enemy, seams preaty clear Ramsey will do that to his prisoners.
The other one? No idea, Just hope it isn’t Davos, absolutly love him and the way Liam plays him.
So Sansa as a former rape victim gets her revenge by bringing the Vale army to defeat the Boltons…
The 2 people on crosses are 2 northern lords.
Burning Osha would have no efect since the North does not know her or would care for some random wildling girl.
I’d be very upset if the Umbers would indeed side with the Boltons. If the show is going with this then my money is on Rickon and Osha.
Ugh.
They would probably re-introduce Rickon & Osha around episode 3 or 4 safe with the Umbers only to have them burned by episode 9.
God, I hope not.
>But I don’t think that fits with either’s narrative arc
That’s never stopped them before.
I find it extremely difficult to believe, that they would burn yet another child on Game of Thrones.
I heard before, that there would be something very surprising in the Sansa storyline in book 6. I kinda thought she would come out as a lesbian, but I guess burned by Ramsey would fit this description as well.
Thronetender,
If I remember correctly, Pyp is already dead, killed while defending the gate of Castle Black against the wildlings. Or is it another of Jon’s friends in the watch?
Anyway, enough Starks have violently died, enough is enough! And I also hope Brienne and Pod will make it. I know what happened in the books, but I still think Brienne survived.
Oh. Interesting.
Why are some people so upset by the possibility of the Umbers fighting on the side of the Boltons? Sincere question; as far as I’m concerned, they are background.
Grenouille,
I kinda disagree with that argument.This is the first season that I am opening myself to spoilers and I can easily say that most of them revealed are very important and would have been awesome if I hadn’t seen them here but anyways thats not the point.The fact about protecting the source is confusing to me.The battle must have at least hundreds of people and how would revealing the names will pin point to the source from our point of view.My only irritant was that why tease us at all.If it hadn’t been revealed that two bodies burned by ramsay I am sure during the show it would have been a shocker which it is not now.
Anyways I will leave it at that.Seems like if you don’t fall in line here and not praise everytime wotw guys you will get abused by the herd that is here.smh
Dutch Maester,
Not everyone is a book reader my friend.TOJ is a big spoiler for those who hadn’t read the books same as Jon pic being flashed in stark clothes and Arya being chased and Dothraki tent burning.All here too.And jaime with tyrell soldiers is a spoiler.And you can’t put spoilers in a category.All spoilers spoil you watching experience.I would have been happy if no one knew abt the known members but teasing us in bits is an irritant.Come on guys we are all here for spoilers,at least most of us and all spoilers spoil.
Mihnea,
Dude it seems like u just want rickon to die so sansa can become queen in the north lol. Sansa is a character that is destined to be a victim, people keep forgetting that her losing her direwolf is equivalent to losing her identity as a stark.
Lord of Bones,
I don’t want Rickon to die nor do I want Sansa to be queen. Hell I don’t even like Sansa.
I’m just speculating.
And I don’t do my speculations based on what I like or not. But from a storytelling perspective.
Because the Umbers had been, in the show and in the books, portrayed as staunchly loyal to the House Starks. The Umbers, the Manderlys are supporting the Boltons grudgingly while scheming to put the Starks back in Winterfell. If the Umbers are really in with the Boltons and not just pretending, then that would be a big blow to the Great Northern Conspiracy.
Are there still more giants alive then wun wun? Maybe I overlooked it but since the last few episodes I only saw wun wun and no other giants
I don’t understand why some think that the Vale will become involved in the North. Sansa has no status whatsoever in the Vale. More importantly the Vale for now is being run by Baelish and it seem unlikely to me that he would openly defy the Iron Throne who endorse the Boltons.
Yeah, Pyp caught Ygritte’s arrow in his neck while Sam watched – Sam held him as he died. Grenn was the one at the tunnel gate, holding it against the giant. That’s what I meant – after killing those two, I can’t believe they would also kill Edd. I don’t think it’s Edd on the Bolton X. And Sue already said it wasn’t Rickon. I don’t think it’s Davos or Tormund, either.
Shadow Shifter,
There isn’t really any Northen conspiracy. It’s just 2 conspiracies.
Mandarly and Karstark thats preaty much it.
Mandarly is in the Bolton camp but intends to betray them.
Karstark is in the Stannis camp but intends to betray him.
It’s really only Mandarly who has any sort of plan. Rickon.
The others are preaty straight foward. One Umber fights for Bolton to keep the GJ alive, the other one for Stannis.
The Dustins and Ryswell are with Bolton. The Mormots, Glovers and mountain clans with Stannis.
I agree with you here that the Umbers won’t switch sides, well only to do a Mandarly scenario. But I never liked this GNC theory. It’s just Mandarly/Karstarks, the others are straight foward in their alligiance.
It is a conspiracy, but not a huge one in my opinion.
Not positive, but if Wun Wun isn’t the last, he’s one of a very few. Jon and Mance touched on it in Mance’s tent, just before Stannis raided. Mance asked about the giant who went into the tunnel and never came out, Magg the Mighty “the last of a bloodline that stretches back before the First Men.” But who knows? There might be a pretty female giant somewhere who didn’t go into battle. That would be nice for Wun Wun. 😉
Thronetender,
We saw couple of giants in S4EP9, but only 1 passed the Wall in S5: Wun Wun.
I don’t expect any more giants south except for him.
Mihnea,
It’s a theory that would fit in well with the North Remembers, which the show has pretty much abandoned until now. The Mormonts, the Manderlys, the Glovers, and the Umbers are thought to be in on it. We all know how much Roose’s play in Red Wedding hurt many houses in North and not just the Starks. And the North have long memories. I’m really hoping they’d rally to help overthrow the Boltons.
It’s not a huge one because D&D pretty much abandoned the North Remembers storyline after the Red Wedding. Not surprising since a lot of people found their story a bore, which I would disagree with since I love the Northern storyline so much more than Meeren or Dorne. Different strokes and all that.
Shadow Shifter,
I do think some of them will switch sides, but not because of some well tough/planned conspiracy that they have made long ago.
Again I’m someone who is simply against this ”well-tought”, complicated, fan-theories. This end up being 90% of the time, wrong.
Also we are getting northern houses, Rickon, Jon fighting the Boltons, if that is not ”The North Remenbers” I don’t know what is.
This is the: ”they have forgoten Balon!!” all over again, when in truth it will happen just a bit later.
I simply trust the writers, who talk with Martin, know the story better the all of us, more then a fan-theory on the internet.
[Spoiler]Roose and Fat Walda are probably killed before the battle but they are not the bodies. As for the bodies, I think it will be Rickon and Osha. In the same episode (or the next), LSH will be ressurected. I thinks its rather poetic, kill a stark to resurect another.[Spoiler]
[Spoiler]If its not Rickon and Osha, then its Smalljon and another leader of the north house. I hope Rickon and Osha got HUGE AMOUNT of screentime before they died[Spoiler]
I hope the spoiler thing works lol
Babeko,
Lower case ”s”. And in the last spoiler box a ”/” 🙂
Mihnea,
That is your opinion of course. The fact is the North had an axe to grind against the Boltons so I don’t see it as an impossibility that they’re planning to overthrow the Boltons. Roose knows this which is why he had fArya (in the books) and Sansa in the show to marry Ramsey to cement his rule in Winterfell.
Shadow Shifter,
Everyone has something against the Boltons, and I agree they will betray them, eventually. That is exactly like you said, thats why he married Ramsey too Sansa/Jayne.
But I don’t see any well tought conspiracy here. No huge scheme, nothing.
Mandarly has a Conspiracy, I agree. But the others are simply against the Boltons: Like Umber and posible Ryswell. As Dustin seams preaty much against the Starks.
But I don’t see any huge conspiracy here. Too me a conspiracy is something that everyone who is part of it has to know the details. Rickon would be a good example.
If everyone who was part of this ”conspiracy” knew about Rickon and agreed to simulate loialty to the Boltons until he is back, then yes this would have been a conspiracy too me.
But just because the majority of people want the Boltons gone/dead, doesn’t mean it’s a conspiracy.
Plus I’d add Sophie Turner is very tall , that is 100% not her in those pictures above.
Mihnea,
Most of these Northern lords did act as though they’re loyal to the Boltons. I’m not saying this is written in stone since we all know this is just a theory but you have to at least acknowledge its possibility. I understand if you don’t believe that there is, and you’re entitled to that as I am personally entitled to think that these Northern houses could be scheming behind the scenes. I wouldn’t underestimate them.
Shadow Shifter,
I do belive it’s a possibility they will change sides. Just like you said.
But that to me isn’t a conspiracy. What Mandarly does is a conspiracy in my opinion.
Them just hating the Bolton and wanting to flip-sides isn’t one too me.
Sure they could work togheter, but I find this very, very unlikely, or so it seams too me.
Every house trying to have a conspiracy of their own is fine, and quite likely. But I would be suprized if all or even couple of them where togheter in this.
I personally don’t see any proof of such a ”grand conspiracy”.
We will see when TWOW is realesed who guessed it right….If it ever comes out.
I think the two known characters will be Theon and possibly his sister. I read that she would be back this season. They said two known characters so I didn’t take it to mean Starks necessarily. Maybe Blackfish dies? I hope not. He managed to escape the Red Wedding so it would be ashame if the Boltons finally get him. I don’t think it’ll be RIckon, and not Littlefinger even though I’m sure Sansa wants him dead. Littlefinger is a character who drives the plot, so I think he’ll be around for a while. As long as Brienne, Jaime, Sansa, and Jon are OK I’ll be fine.
I reckon Jon is ressurected by Mel, recieves some kind of letter akin to the pink letter, then sends Olly and someone else to Winterfell to parle with the Boltons…
Basically Olly is flayed then burned…
This isn’t even a guess, it’s fanfic!
Burn that little sh*t!
I think Edd might be one of those two people burning, sadly. He is one of Jon’s last friends and him dying would definitely affect Jon. But its not clear when Ramsey will be burning these people up, whether it is before the start of the battle( to incite Jon and the others) or during the battle. If its before, I dont see how it can be Edd.
Too bad Sue says its Ramsey doing the burning , as it would have been a fitting end for Ramsey to be tied to that cross and burnt to death!
OT: almost 600 comments here and 700 in the next thread! My eyes are burning trying to read through these!
Oriolesmagic,
I was just thinking the same thing.
About Meera Reed and Hodor
Wimsey,
But then again it is a possibility that D&D have Meera and Hodor leaving the cave and going back to the North. Or at least Meera. A possibility. So I wouldn’t be as affirmative as you are…
LNJ,
That was the point of LF’s scene with Cersei in S5. He tells her the Boltons have Sansa… She gets mad, declares the Boltons traitors, and gives LF permission to take the Vale army to fight whoever win the Bolton-Stannis battle.
And for those wondering why half the people here believe a random dude from reddit, it’s because he was the one who provide this pic:
http://watchersonthewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/flags_1024.jpg
Hariette Tuttle,
To tell the secret? He would hardly believe her.
Grenouille,
Let me get it straight. That guy on reddit who posted this pic of Stark, Mormont banners said that Sansa would bring Vale or what? I’m a little bit confused here.
The Throne doesn’t endorse the Boltons… I think you might have missed a crucial scene in season five in which Littlefinger reveals to Cersei that the Boltons have Sansa (though, of course, he doesn’t reveal his involvement in that) and Cersei gives Littlefinger permission to invade the North and mop up whatever is left of Stannis and the Boltons. He’s even promised the position of Warden of the North, in exchange for Sansa’s head.
I´m fearing for Rickon, but I hope he isn´t one of them.
I don´t think this would make much sense. The Goal for the Boltons is to hold the North and Winterfell and bc the fooking North remembers, they would always remember how the Bolton Bastard savagely killed a Stark Boy. I don´t think the Northern Houses would ever be loyal to them after this.
At the Moment, everyone thinks Theon killed the Stark Boys, so he can be the bad guy. While in the Books fAryas Tears are dangerous for the fresh new Position of the Boltons.
You just can´t hold the North if you publicly harm a Stark…
I think its Melisandre. And maybe Davos.
Melisandres flames are like the oracle of Delphi, they never give exact Visions. The tricked her often (Stannis is AA, They win at Blackwarter, She only sees Snow), so shes not some untouchable Magic Superherowitch.
I don´t know if Davos is needed anymore. I really like him and I think he will be a loyal Stark Supporter, but I think his Storyline might be end soon….
Furiosa,
How is exactly Ramsay going to capture Mel?
I can sort of understand Davos, because he might be looking out for Rickon.
I am sooooo hype! I’m hoping it will be Roose and Fat Walda, but that would be no loss so who knows? Scares me (I hid under the bed when I read it). I don’t know what has happened to be but it’s official….I AM a GOT nerd!…lol.
I really have no Idea. 😀
It was just a guess…
Geralt of Rivia,
The guy who posted that pic had also claimed that the Umbers and the Karstarks would fight along with the Boltons and that Sansa would arrive at the last moment with the Vale army to save the day.
Subsequently WiC also ran a post saying that the Umbers would in fact be fighting along with the Boltons. I think that’s why so many people are buying what the guy had posted. However there has been no proof of any Vale involvement, no pics, no sightings etc.
Geralt of Rivia,
What ghost of winterfell said. And also, that a Stark would die, and that it wouldn’t be Sansa…
Almost 600 comments this morning, and it is the off-season!
ghost of winterfell,
Ohhh, I read it on reddit and I thought that it was fake. Mainly because of Umbers against Starks and lack of Sansa news. Well until now with this piece of news about Sansa being actually there and another idea that Umbers might be against bastard Jon Snow with wildling army at his back rather than Starks. Umbers hate Wildlings with a passion. But if Umbers are hiding Rickon somewhere. I would expect them to turn on the Boltons at the right time. That guy wrote something about them turning their back on Boltons or not? I can’t remember it.
Still there is no news about Vale being there, but I guess Sue might learn something about that.
Wimsey,
You make the argument that nobody will care if Rickon dies, but the battle (though made for the audience) is supposed to be impacting The Starks and their allies. I’m sure if Jon and Sansa both see their baby brother burning on a cross it is going to have an emotional impact.
You’re so smart!
Sweetpeas love,
Oh, so it’s a bookreader+theory thing. Fair enough. Although I’d, as always, point out that The Show Is Not The Books, so Umber behaviour on the show is not necessarily indicative of Umber behaviour in the books. 🙂
Not going to happen – but how ironic would it be if the two people Ramsay burned were Bran and Rickon?
Lindamon,
You’re so smart!!!
Ravyn,
True, but OTOH he is just a little kid right now, and has been given no real character development as yet. He may grow up to be a great warrior, or have some other talents as yet unknown. It’s quite easy for the writers to turn him into more interesting character at any point. This happens all the time in dramatic shows, when a minor character suddenly (or even gradually) becomes a major one.
Or perhaps they won’t bother to develop his character – he could just show up in the end credits, when they list what happened to all the characters, like at the end of American Graffiti, or Animal House – “And Rickon Stark became Warden of the North, and fathered many children bright and strong, as Shaggydog had puppies, and rebuilt the Wall, and was a great friend and ally to….” 😉
Geralt of Rivia,
No mention about the Umbers turning their backs on the Boltons in that post, but that’s most likely what will happen, if what this guy posted is actually true.
*gasp*
That was a little too much, all together.
THE WOLVES WILL COME AGAIN.
Just passing by to say Edd is not dying in that cross! Sorry, but I’ll have to spoil this for you:
Edd will marry Dany and sit on the iron throne, with Wun Wun as his Hand. The Tollets will rule Westeros for a thousand years with an iron fist.
It is known.
Sue the Fury: No, Rickon is not one of the burning cross people.
If it is not Rickon, but we can see from the photo that at least one of the characters is a kid, my guess is Robin Arryn. The only other kid I can think of is Olly?
Grenouille,
If it’s true. Sansa safe, Jon that would be dumb to kill him after you know what. Rickon might still die in the battle and not exactly tied up to that cross as Sue said it, but still that would be terrible to bring him like Myrcella only to kill him. Enough of that.
ghost of winterfell,
Ok. Even if Umbers hate wildlings and Jon, they still would hate Boltons even more. They will probably play it safe and in the right time they will turn on them. That would explain where the heck are Manderlys. Umbers are alredy established on the show and Rickon with Osha went there. Still I would like to see some Mormont character. Lyanna Mormont might be a good choice. Fierce girl.
WIC have just posted further leaks… eihter Sansa or Melisandre was on location when that pic of Kit was taken at Saintfield (but were out of shot). Looks more like Mel due to the neckline of the dress (in Winter). Also- possibly a direwolf skull on the pile of firewood 🙁
Apollo,
I think that might be wrong or at least part about Kit and Carice or Sophie being on the set at that time, because Carice and Sophie were in LA to attend Emmy awards.
But direwolf skull ? Ghost, Shaggydog? NOOO don’t you dare. Jon would be angry as hell about Ghost. That scares the heck out of me.
I’m a bit confused: The second photo shown is clearly the wall, but I don’t think that’s the same set as the first photo. I don’t know if anybody already mentioned this in the 600+ posts before ;-), but could it be the:
The only thing I can think of to convince myself that it’s not Rickon is that the 7th book title was originally “A time for Wolves.” The Wolves have taken their licks and they will rise. Presumably with the lone male Stark ruling the North.
Also, something regarding Mel’s vision. Remember she misinterpreted her vision of herself on WF’s battlements and the Bolton banners lowered when she relayed it to Stannis? Stannis was all “Great, we got this.” Then later realizing it wasn’t meant for him? Remember the wording. She saw herself on the battlements. So we know she gets inside Winterfell. In the flames she saw the banners lowered, not herself there seeing them lowered. So she could get inside Winterfell and get caught and burned outside(fitting death IMO) and the banners get lowered after Jon’s side wins and she’s already dead.
The greatjon is one of the guys being burnt on the cross, after the umbers betray the boltons.
Geralt of Rivia,
I hate this idea… Why can’t Tormund live. I love his character and would love to see him continue to stand by Jon… Would give Jon the wildlings. I hope he lives.
Apollo,
That doesn’t look like Sansa or Melisandre in the picture that they’ve encircled. It’s just the woman who is under the umbrella in the close-up shot with Kit in a different position with a coat in front of her that makes it look like she is wearing a big dress. Also, the direwolf head probably isn’t a direwolf head. The picture is so unclear that what looks like a head is probably some wood.
I’m thinking it’s Davos and Melisandre now. Not really sure where their stories can go now Jon has been resurrected and Stannis is no more. Will miss Davos but would be quite poetic to have Mel burned.
Not sure why Ramsay would be burning Night’s Watch members as I assume that they aren’t part of the fight due to their vows and their empthatic rejection of Jon as their leader. Someone from the Vale? Possibly but I have a hard time believing Ramsay would be able to conquer their army or get his hands on Robyn or Bronze Royce. Could be Wilidng raiders which could account for Tormund. Meh, who knows?!
Yaga,
The show Umbers and book Umbers were pretty much portrayed consistently in the show and the books. Regardless, it would still suck if they would turn on the Starks.
maybe?,
I would prefer if Tormund makes it out of that battle alive, but sadly Tormund is one of the most possible casualties. Much like Pyp, Grenn, Ygritte or Karsi before. I really his speech in defence of Jon at Hardhome. If he dies there is no other wildling leader that audience is invested in, but wildlings will surely play some part in Jon’s future. Much like Dothraki with Daeny.
Tormund in the show might not be as funny as his book counterpart(he has his own moments like explaining the art of love to Jon), but I like this version of seriousness and grudging respect between him and Jon. Kudos to Kristofer Hivju.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
martin already said, that major events will not change , someone has to die, and that one , for logically storytelling, has to be rickon , in order to make sansa the head of House stark , and baelish more powerful than ever, just as stannis rickon has to die , in order to develop jon sansa and baelish stories , and about the umbers supporting boltons , having zero sense , in the books i recall u that mors umbers daughter was kidnapped by the wildlings , and he would surely hate a stark bastard leading them in battle
Those are the original quarry building- not a new set. The set consists of the two large plywood walls in the foreground
Huh? It looks exactly like Melisandre and very like Sansa- the woman has long red/ auburn hair and is wearing a long flowing gown. Who else are you suggesting it could be?
If the dates don’t fit then perhaps its a body double.
Geralt of Rivia,
I love Tormund. He’s the face of the Wildlings right now. Viewers care about the Wildlings in part because we know Tormund. Without him, the Wildlings would just be another group of people. It would be a shame if he gets killed. There’s no one from the Wildling camp that would step into his shoes.
Eh, ok. My point was more that, as someone interested more in the show (I read the books, but I don’t care for them), I barely noticed the Umbers. So, for me, if they betrayed the Starks, I would just roll with it. If they were portrayed consistently with the books so far, that’s ok, too.
Well, she might have red/auburn hair, I can’t tell from the picture, but a lot of women have long hair. She is wearing a blue coat and in the photo where it looks like she’s wearing a gown, if you zoom in, you’ll see that it’s just a coat hanging off the side of the camera (or whatever that red tripod thing is). I guess she could be wearing a gown, but I can’t really infer that from the picture. My guess it that she’s just a member of the crew, but hey, you could be right.
Yaga,
Not many people might remember them since The Red Wedding was two seasons ago and after that the Northern story line was kinda abandoned. I’m glad they picked it up this season because the North Remembers is very significant to the Stark and the North.
This picture shows clearly its a bears head perhaps its Lyanna mormont on the stake? she is a known character
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VBgdJJZTSwI/VjFnJKb2vpI/AAAAAAAACo4/uwaIo6ibp40/s1600/Rickon.jpg
and pic of bear
http://www.huntingbg.eu/images/brown-bear-hunting/brown-bear-hunting-2.jpg
look closely to know what I mean 😛
Are you looking at the new pic on WiC? Because it shows a woman walking away from the umbrella (not standing underneath)- wearing a dark gown with a plunging neckline and huge bunched up sleeves. The lower portion of what appears to be the gown may in fact be the jacket from the previous pic (same shape) so its hard to say on that part.
Geralt of Rivia,
Not to tell the secret, just to have a life.
Then, in terms of storytelling, especially on tv, I cant’ see Meera Reed staying in the weirwood cave with Bran… She’s a character that has action potential, as much as Arya and Brienne. She pledged to the Stark, so I can definitely see her alongside Jon or Sansa. Or going back to GreyWater Watch on a mission…
As of Hodor, he can either accompany her or stay with Bran, but I think Bran would definitely ask him to go with Meera.
What would they do in the cave ? Seriously in terms of plot points and action, Bran and the 3EyedRaven don’t need other protagonists around.
I can really see a mission of some kind with the CoF and Meera and Hodor. There’s no way they are going to be bystanders of the Bran show (at least Meera).
Question is where could they end up ? (with or without the CoF)
–>At the Wall in time for Jon’s resurrection
–>Or much later at the Great Battle of the North and 1/Join the Starks in time 2/Be captured by the Boltons.
I wonder.
Seradan,
I don’t think she’s been cast in the show. So I don’t think viewers would know if it’s her.
If Rickon dies, then what is the point for the whole battle. Rickon Stark in the only true heir to winterfell left. If he dies, House Stark dies with him. What is the point of having a big battle so Sansa would rule winterfell marry some lord and the starks die off since the new lords sons would use his banners and name. It makes no sense for Rickon to die, it makes no sense for this battle if there is no MALE STARK to rule and pass on his name. The Northern houses would never rally if Rickon was to die. If sansa was the only stark left then other civil wars would spread in the North for who gets to marry her and become Warden of the North..so it doesn’t make sense. IMO Sansa is pregnant with ramseys child and she will be the one who dies. Not on the X but she will commit suicide when she finds out she is pregnate with a BOLTON HEIR to the dreadford. On the two X X it will be Stannis and Theon. from episode 1-8 stannis will legitimize Gendry by writing his final will in a cabine somewhere with brienne before he is captured by the boltons since he is probably paralyzed. And since brienne is going to the riverlands, Gendry is probably there and he will receive that will. House Baratheon will continue and the stormlands, the reach , dorne , vale will rally around Gendry Baratheon first of his name against the Lannisters.
As for denerys..who cares her story line is boring and house targaryen is gone.. Keep GOT in westeros.
Furiosa,
Let me start by saying I’m not expecting Mel to resurrect Jon. Given that, I’ve long wondered if Mel flees the Wall. Once Davos finds out she murdered Shireen, on top of already understanding her role in Stannis’ destruction, there’s no way he lets her live. So perhaps she flees to Winterfell, both for safety, and because of yet another spectacular misinterpretation of her visions. She may see Ramsay as the last possible defence against the Others, and may even see him as Azor Ahai (she sees Snow…oops, wrong Snow). That’s why she sees herself on the battlements of Winterfell. Then when Winterfell falls…Mel on a cross. Either by Davos or Stannis loyalists.
Just wondering about the idea of there being 2 people burned on crosses. There’s only one cross in the picture. So it’s either sequential burnings, or at different places. I pictured it as side by side burnings, but it doesn’t look like that.
That WiC post also mentions that Baelish will also be seen in the battle. Also that Sansa survives the battle. These are big spoilers. I will take these seriously only if Sue confirms them, though 🙂
Lisa0527,
And who will resurrect Jon then?
Kay,
That’s a good guess. But the RL situation with the siege seems complicated (BlackFish vs Jaimie). However I was wondering how she can be on set with LittleFinger (confirmed) and not Jon. And how LF gets there in the first place ? An also Brienne has met her with LF before…
Yup. Same. And how LF is going to react to this new player, Jon “Snow” Stark Targ etc and how he’s going to use this to his advantage again. We all remember that Jon and Sansa are not the best of friends.
I am looking at the new picture. The woman walking away is the same woman as the one under the umbrella in the original zoomed in picture, just a few moments later. The dark gown with the plunging neckline looks like the blue coat in the original picture that isn’t zipped up fully (hence the neckline). They do look like bunched up sleeves, but I guess she could be carrying something. And yes, that’s what I was saying about the jacket; it’s exactly the same shape as in the previous picture and she’s standing behind it in such a way that it looks like the bottom half of a gown. This feels like the discussion that was going on not so long ago about if Lyanna was standing around outside the Tower of Joy or if it was just a man with a mirror!
However, something I’m curious about is who will actually be in the battle and why. We know for sure that Jon, Davos and Sansa will be around and unless something’s happened to Tormund, I guess he would be in the thick of things, but where is Melisandre? If Sansa meets up with Jon or Rickon’s group or any other Northern Lords, why would they take her to the battle? I’d imagine she would be on the sidelines with a way of escaping if things went wrong. If she somehow met up with Littlefinger and the Vale troops (if they do indeed get involved with the battle), I could perhaps see her there getting them to fight alongside Jon. Also, I don’t see Davos as much of a warrior, but he could surprise me.
Squirrel,
Lisa0527,
Furiosa,
I suggested once that Melisandre might not be the only one to have a hand in Jon’s resurrection. Why not an intervention from the Old Gods directly or through CoF or 3ER/Bran ?
Squirrel,
Wun Wun will fart and that will bring Jon back to life. It is known. In all seriousness Mel is currently his only hope or Bloodraven somehow.
Apollo,
It kinda looks like Mel but this picture but it’s blurry and it’s tough to say with a certainty, but body double is something that never occurs to me. Wonder why to use body double for what kind of scene. Burning? But then again how the hell would Ramsay gets his hands on her.
Shadow Shifter,
Since Jon is never going to be fully Wildling and they’re important for him much like Daeny with Dothraki. I hope that he makes it, but I’m prepared for the worst outcome. Davos, Tormund, Wun Wun and potentially Edd all in danger. I don’t like this. Excited and nervous about this.
I personally think these half ass spoilers are kind of lame. If you’re going to report spoilers…report spoilers. Don’t keep half the information back. We can have Jon being at the battle spoiled but not who dies spoiled? Either spoil or don’t.
Tiny direwolf,
I agree but since when Ramsay had any sense in him ? His father is strategic, Ramsay is a full psychopath. There is strategy there too but misdirected. Battlefields and politics need “big picture”strategists. (and I’m not saying daddy Bolton is the best, but people like Tywin, Tyrion, Olenna, Varys and LF are pretty good).
Furiosa,
re: Ramsey capturing Mel and Davos
If there was a scenario where Ramsey sent Jon/Castle Black some version of the Pink Letter, I could see Davos convincing Jon to let him go and attempt to treat with Ramsey, and Mel tagging along because she likes rubbing elbows with power.
Hariette Tuttle,
Brienne doesn’t trust LF and she said it to Pod in that Inn. Jon and Sansa are not best of friends? They never share any scene before and Sansa would be glad to see any family member that’s left. Since Sansa might turn to LF, but she could easily play him. I doubt she would honestly go against Jon and that Jon would be that much of a different guy by trying to take Winterfell from his bro or sis.
I can’t see Stannis’ long dead body being considered of the flayed. It just makes no sense, really.
It cannot be Melissandre,
not after she brings Jon back, she’ll be beloved & feared by his men and protected on high by R’hllor for ressurecting the prophecized hero.
We’ll be seeing even more Lord of Light worshipers, it looks like. I doubt anyone would dare kill her. Hopefully we’ll see more magic, strategy & cunning now. Like chess, the game gets more intense when there are fewer pieces left on the board.
Sansa won’t be killed. She could do a Queen Elizabeth sort of turnaround. After living through hell, she “marries” the North and her cause.
Petyr Baelish told Cercei that he was going to bring troops from the Vale, but Tommen never signed the royal decree giving him the Vale before Cercei was imprisioned.
What if instead, Sansa kills Petyr, charms Sweetrobin into getting the Vale to fight for Jon. Or marries sweetrobin…ugh. That’s a big a army though.
It could be Rickon. How awfully sad would that be? Why? Because he’s a Stark & the true heir
unless Jon has been named heir by Robb’s letter?
It bothers me to say Rickon is heir at all when Bran is alive, even though he may not be there, he still is the true heir, not Rickon.
did Robb’s letter get sent giving Jon Winterfell in the show? I remember he & Cat arguing in the tent, but was the reason the same as it was in the books?
I don’t see him being killed with Jon there either, though. Jon killed a white walker. He can save his little brother from Ramsay Bolton.
What if it’s Roose who flays Ramsey and burns him? Ramsay is too out of control so after they lose to Jon’s army because the Umber’s turn after the battle begins, and the Vale swooping in, then, the rest of the Houses turn when they see Rickon, Sansa and Jon. Theon begs Jon, tells him Bran’s alive & he saved Sansa & he spares him, or
Theon gives his own life to satisfy Ramsay. He does want his Reek. Or Ramsay kills him just because he escaped & took Sansa.
Edmure could be one of them too. It would be sad, then, the Tullys are going faster than the Stark’s. That is sad right there.
Roose Bolton could be flayed. Ramsay may kill Roose now that he’s legitimized him. If not just to show his sick nature & that he’s sick enough to kill his own father, what would he do to his enemies. Walda too? not on the battlefield.
All of this though, means that if anyone is flaying anyone, unless it’s to prove a point to the Boltons, it would mean that Ramsay won, wouldn’t it?
OK, I blew and blew up the cross picture, and now I do see a bear head sitting on the pile of wood. 🙁
Yes, the new picture does show a woman in a long dress, which has to be a costume, not just a crew member. The only two female possibilities in long gowns are Mel and Sansa. Ugh…. Mel still lives so far into Season 6? 🙁
This Northern battle will be introducing a totally unexpected twist in the story, I feel. The chaos it will bring will make the WW invasion much easier in Season 7.
My vote for upside-down-and-aflame: Stannis and Selyse. Both could have been found dead in the woods, and Roose may be able to identify them.
House Stark Loyalist,
You know, your post comes off as incredibly sexist. The point of a story is change. If the story ends up with the world in exactly the same position as it was in the beginning… well, that’s dissatisfying. It’s possible that one of the changes coming to Westeros will be the abolishment of the 7 kingdoms system. It’s also possible that, what with the crop of powerful women holding official stations, women openly holding power will also become a thing – taking away the need to search for a male patsy, a Mace or a Tommen.
Unrealistic? Sure. In real world, it took women much longer to openly take power; there still isn’t parity in most governments and management boards. If HRC becomes the first female president of the US, she’ll still be only the first after 45 men. But hey, GOT is, in the end, fantasy.
But Davos was the one who tried to convince Jon to fight against the Boltons because “as long as the Boltons rule the North, the North will suffer”. As far as he knows, the Boltons killed his King and his beloved Princess-daughter. He’s going to hate them more now than he ever did and probably won’t feel like having a nice little parley with them. Melisandre will probably realise that Jon is who she thought Stannis was and so, in her opinion, the most powerful person in Westeros. If she rubs elbows (and probably more – again) with anyone, it will be Jon.
In my head, the only way Sansa could be at/near the battle is if she first goes South, and then LF brings the Vale army and with her to the North. He would definitely bring her to legitimize WHY he was bringing the Vale army to a northern battle.
YAAAAASSSS!!!!
If you think Sansa lost her identity as a Stark, you are not paying attention.
Loosing (Ned sacrificing )Lady can mean many things Stark identity isn’t one, unless you mean more then a name change; which from book and show she’s Stark to the bone just different from her other siblings.
I don’t get why because Sansa has a great arc this season she can’t die?
You don’t yet know what happens between the point of the battle and when she and Theon escaped from Winterfell (if that was successful for both of them- I know Theon potentially gets away).
When it comes to things like this I always recall that every time GOT builds us up into this sense of slight happiness (i.e. a Stark reunion) that it brutally drags us down again. Sansa safety at the Eyrie then being married to Ramsay, the Red Wedding, Oberyn Martell’s good character who dies, Shireen speaking to Davos before her death etc. I don’t see why they wouldn’t give us a chance of a Stark reunion or even one just to have Ramsay flay Sansa alive as they love to lull us into a false sense of security.
Sex on the Beach;,
And I thought I am the only one in the desert saying it.Watch out for the abuse my friend!
debbie,
Yaga,
Can you explain me the stupidity of killing the only TRUE MALE HEIR to winterfell, but keep the female so she be married and House Stark hoes extinct….Some of you people here dont really think hard enough about things….whats the point of a northern civil war if the intent is to kill of the stark name…bran is gone forever hes not coming back, jon is a bastard and proapbly not a stark, arya is never going back and she is a female , and sansa is a female. The starks would be eliminated.
I much rather see Sansa at the X than Rickon. Rickon Stark is the last MALE that can continue the Stark name.
The only people Ramsey would threaten then burn are personages important to the opposing army, either Lords or children of Lords, as a way of intimidating a House or Houses to back down or change sides.
Women cannot inhreit . Only the MALE line does. Only the MALE last name moves on.
Little more evidence to support the claim that giants will be present in the battle. had a zoom in on the image that looked to show Jon snow under and umbrella and saw this by a trailer. https://i.gyazo.com/e4cfbed26c94f50614d8b809ea7e14cd.jpg looks to be the green stick with ball on top they use to track the giant movements when filming. but my guess is as good as yours…
House Stark Loyalist,
That’s not how it works with greater Houses. The same in the real world. Sometimes, a man from a lesser House marries a woman for her name and he and his sons adopt the name, so the name lives on. It’s just convenient.
House Stark Loyalist,
Because, ideally, Sansa would rule as Sansa Stark; and a lot of people would have to accept that it’s possible for a woman to rule under the identity she chooses. That’s a change and a novelty. Rickon ruling Winterfell would not bring this change.
House Stark Loyalist,
That’s simply not true.
But considering your previous comments I think you are just trolling.
What is the royal family in the UK, then? How do you propose we start the revolution for this treason?
You may have something there. We had a previous post about a young boy being cast. Maybe the son if one of the northern Lords?
To 3 and 4 …… Blah blah blah.. make it optional… spoiler tags… know if you want to know, skip it if you don’t … we’re capable of making our own decisions.
OT: Update on the potential premiere date for Season 6.
HBO just announced that their new series Vinyl (featuring recently-crowned Guest Actress winner Birgette Hjort Sørensen!) will premiere on February 14, 2016 at 9 PM. The premiere is two hours long, and the full season is 10 episodes. They also announced that the 10-episode 5th season of Girls will premiere a week later on February 21 at 10 PM and the 8-episode 2nd season of Togetherness will premiere on February 21 at 10:30.
That’s a later-than-expected debut for all of those shows, and unfortunately eats up all of HBO’s Sunday night real estate through April 10. Assuming that all of those shows don’t take any breaks, the earliest that Game of Thrones Season 6 will be able to premiere is April 17, 2016.
Lonnie,
EDIT: Double post
Lonnie,
You might say that, but to assume you won’t somehow find out between now and april if they would choose to reveal it, then you’re nuts. blah blah.
Name *,
Ok this really got me! Thank you for the luagh.
Luka Nieto,
Yup. The Mormont women are basically doing this.
Maybe it’s post battle and the Bolton’s lost to Jon Snow, Melisandre and company. Then, as revenge, Jon lets Mel sacrifice Roose and Ramsay to the Lord of light, on their own sigil, just for fun.
excellent detective work there!!!
the later the start date appears to be, the more likely TWoW will be out before season airs (which in my book lovers heart I really want to happen)
What about
Just a thought
Jon snow death was a pretty open spoiler for years I believe,still who didn’t want to get spoiled managed to do so.It isn’t realistic to assume and doubt other peoples intelligence and decision making.
Yaga,
I agree. GRRM narrative seems to be pointing towards a time when the old system is no longer viable and those that have been pushed under the wheel – cripples, bastards, dwarves, women – now have a chance to rule. Putting Sansa on the throne as Queen of the North makes sense, and letting Rickon die would be a narrative step in that direction. Also, Rickon has been badly developed in both tv and book, so that might also be a clue that the creators know he doesn’t last to the end.
KevLS,
I totally love this idea. Especially since burning is obviously Melisandre’s thing, not the Bolton’s thing
Ginger of House Snap,
as much as I would LOVE to see that..the spoiler specifically stated that Ramsey would be doing the burning..so its gonna be someone(s) from #teamjonsansanorth being burned
The point of putting people on display on a cross is to send a message or rally support. Thus I think the most logical would be Tormund and another character(possibly Edd).
Having Tormund on a cross would rally Northern Lords who hate wildlings and more than likely are extremely upset wildling are south of the wall and now are part of an army that is threatening the North (albeit that threat is to the Boltons in Winterfell. The wildiling hate takes precedence over any infighting between Northern Lords.) Hanging Tormund would also send a message to the wildlings that their leader is dead to inflict fear or cause a leaderhip vacuum.
Having Edd on the cross would send a message to Jon’s army that the NW is not to interfere in realm business. Also it would rally Northern support since they are probably very angry that a Wildling army was allowed south of the wall by the NW.
How does Ramsay get these characters
Book Spoiler Time
Tormund has obviously taken Mance Rayders role(from a leadership standpoint) this past season on the show so just go forward with Mance’s arc in the book and you can see how Tormund and Ramsay would cross paths and would make an easy capture.
Thronetender,
Thanks for reminding me how they died and thanks for pointing me what Sue said. I try to read all the comments but sometimes I don’t manage. I hope you are right about Davos and Edd, too.
Rickon not being burnt is a great piece of news, thanks Sue and thank the old gods and the new!
selena,
Oh… I missed that…I can’t imagine who (other than Rickon–whom we know now it is NOT) would be impactful, unless it is someone close to Jon or other lords fighting with him. I really don’t think Jon would be affected by someone like Theon being burned. Theon was a total asshole to him when they were all at Winterfell back in the good old days (not sure if Jon knew about Theon’s betrayal of Robb?). Sansa doesn’t seem a reasonable choice either, as I feel that her story is not done. This is a curious situation. I have no idea at this point
Laura,
I am not going to argue with idiots.I remember them and don’t tag me again.I am not interested in having any sort of discussion with you.Thanks!
Sex on the Beach,
But there is a chance that at some point some good will happen. Especially as we gear up for the end. The North/Starks have had nothing but bad things happen to them since season one. Like any good story, they are primed for a comeback 🙂 Whoop!
Ginger of House Snap,
Thanks! I thought it made perfect sense. However, since it represents a happy ending it probably won’t be allowed on GoT.
Because Sansa’s point to the story isn’t to get completely trashed by the Lannisters and Boltons, achieve nothing and get flayed alive by Ramsay.
Besides, she has unfinished business with LF AND seen’s been spotted on the WF set, which is post battle since neither Boltons were sighted there.
That’s not true, females can inherit but after males, but I’m sure there is back story for the Starks, GRRM as of yet published the She wolves of Winterfell so answers could be there.
I bet there are enough houses from north to the RL and Eyrie with Stark blood, if Sansa chooses to marry one she would demand they take the Stark name.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
I think the Karstarks are more likely to side with the Boltons than the Umbers. The Greatjon was Robb’s right hand guy. On the other hand the Karstarks may still feel slighted for the beheading of Rickard Karstarks. Additionally I think Brienne has to much plot armor. She’s too tied into Jamie’s arc to die (yet). It’s no secret that GRRM and D&D aren’t scared to kill off characters, but not without completing a story. Rickon and Osha feel too cheap in my opinion. I seriously have no idea who it could be. I’d say Benjen and Gendry at this point.
And what purpose does two long dead, decomposed bodies of a King/Queen that nobody in the north recognised serve Bearing in mind one of these bodies has no head, and the other body was likely buried or burned before Stannis left for battle. That makes zero sense.
KevLS,
That’s what I was thinking! Post battle sacrifice. Plus you burn all dead bodies with WW coming.
Sansa is definitely bringing in the Vale by aligning with Sweet R undermining LF’s efforts. That is her revenge against LF for leaving her with Ramsey for his power play.
I’ve always thought Jon would be resurrected with some old gods/CofTF magic. One of the most compelling arguments I’ve read for this was on Reddit, by someone who had analyzed the death scene music. As Jon dies the Stark theme plays (with a bit more cello than usual, cuz it’s a sad scene), but just at the end it changes to a higher pitched sound that is completely different. It was such a big change that I actually thought for a moment that Jon was going to be resurrected then and there. This Reddit poster correctly observed that we’ve heard that note/sound before…when Bran has his green dream and when he meets the CofTF! It’s a very distinct Cof Tf sound. So it seems to me hats how it’s going to happen.
Jons death. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n6DmWeJtKKs
Brans dream. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rbGwWZ9sjBQ
Geralt of Rivia,
Yep I agree with what you say on Brienne, I just wondered how a next encounter involving LF and Sansa with her would turn. If they ever meet again. As for
I was thinking of the books and pointing out that They don’t seem that much close. But the Tv show might go in another direction here. Anyways, I’m really looking forward to the dynamics of the Sansa-LF-Jon relationship.
Ravyn,
Jon won’t need any taunts, unless Ramsey decides to say that one carcass is Sansa. Which, given what we know about Ramsey, isn’t beyond the realms of possibility. That’s where it’d be perfect timing for Sansa to find her way to Jon, thus calling Ramsey’s bluff. That’d also rattle Ramsey somewhat, and the boot would be on the other foot.
Melissandre would probably wish to give the bodies a proper Red-God send off. Denial would get her going? It’s hard to tell. She’d want to dish out her kind of ‘justice’ to Roose & Ramsey. Something different than a shadow-baby-turned-assassin required, perhaps, and to be different to what’s been seen before. How are her powers when she’s at Winterfell, proper?
Hariette Tuttle,
Even in the books Sansa wishes to see Jon again and sort of a understand him more as Alayne. Being a bastard. As for show she will happy to see him and I’m certain of it. Although she might try to play LF into thinking that she is against Jon only to screw him up. LF left her with Boltons and I think she will slowly realize what sort of a guy he truly is. Jon/Sansa/LF meeting should be very interesting if it comes to that. LF would laugh out to WW threat and Jon would be really careful with him.
As for Brienne. If she meetss Sansa. You know LF might be lesser of the two evils for her after Sansa would probably tell her something.
If I am not mistaken, doesn’t Rickon wake up from a dream in the first ASOIAF book? He is an old man in his nineties. I know D&D can deviate from the books, but the idea of a Stark character living to old age is appealing.
Grenouille, Who is this reddit guy? Where are those leaks in reddit? Thanks!
SO we aint goingtalk about the season 6 conclusion then
Isn’t there a very small chance that one of the poor souls on that cross could be Bran? I know that Roose sent out Locke to execute him and Jon just to get his neck snapped by Bran who warged into Hodor…but couldnt it be that Roose or Ramsay sent out another one or two skilled men who could’ve followed him and his group? Currently Bran is further in the North than any other human being in the show/books but since we have writers like D&D you never know…i know that this may sounds dumb given the fact that Bran would have the ability to warg into anything he wants right now and i personally would hate to see Bran ending up on that cross but it would have another non-sense shock factor and we know that D&D are currently focusing more on that than on actual storytelling.
DanTheMan,
No it isn’t Bran. You are imaginating impossible scenarios just too complain about the writing and throw insults.
Stab in the Dark,
Tormund is the show’s Token Wildling. I’d say that makes killing him a bit problematic for storytelling.
Maybe a bit farfetched but what about Benjen? thought it was mentioned he was supposed to make a comeback? Could be a very short one.
Just want to clarify – this “Matt” is not me. He comments less frequently than I do. Open forum: Should I change my name? And to what?
This has me completely questioning Sansa’s ark again.
I had been completely convinced that Sansa would go to the Wall. It’s in theory closer and easier than trying to get to the Vale, and that whole exchange about Jon being Lord Commander had to mean something?
The question then was – would Jon bring her south when he knows he’s going to fight the Boltons? Probably, as Castle Black is not safe for highborn women, but also because he’s clearly not wearing his Night’s Watch clothing and is fighting in Stark clothes.
But now with the news Baelish is at this battle along with Sansa, does it seem like instead of going to Jon she goes to Littlefinger? Because I would hate that at the end of the Winterfell debacle she runs right back to them. But with them there and some sources saying the Vale army comes my question is: Are Jon and Sansa really aligned? Because I don’t think Littlefinger – who is the real power in the Vale – is just going to back Jon Snow in whatever he wants to do.
It would break my heart if after all this Jon and Sansa would still be at odds. I want to believe (because I am sappy) that her story is not with the Vale but with the North, and that she’s not STILL going to be subjected to Littlefinger’s “protection.”
What does everyone think, is Sansa going north to the Wall or south to Littlefinger?
There is no such news.
I really doubt that anyone has the “skill” to get through all of the wights roaming the north at this time. Bran’s hill in particular is booby trapped with them: anybody that the Children did not spare would be added to the wight population.
There is no indication that Old Gods or the Children can do such things. Again, the “gun” works both ways: guns hung early should be fired before it’s all said and done, but guns fired at crucial moments need to be hung well in advance.
Insofar as we can see, the Old Gods’ power really is limited to to hyper-warging. They can see through the trees over time (and possibly green dream the future), and the trees let them possess animals for a long time without losing themselves in the animals. But we see no evidence that they can magically heal or resurrect, or even hugely affect the world around them in tangible ways. (The weirnet still is pretty cool, though.)
I agree with you. I thought that Sansa would make her way to the Wall, have a happy reunion with Jon and that they’d march south to fight the Boltons and to find Rickon. However, it could be possible that she comes into contact with Littlefinger somehow. Sansa now knows that Jon is (was?) Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch and that her little brothers made it out of Winterfell alive. I imagine that her biggest mission now would be finding Bran and Rickon and keeping them safe. She knows that Jon would care about Bran and Rickon’s wellbeing, whereas Littlefinger wouldn’t and besides that, Jon is someone she cares about. Sansa may hear that her half-brother is going to war with her husband (what a happy family dynamic!) and she may start plotting and scheming her way around Littlefinger so as to get the Vale to support Jon. A lot of people have been clamoring for Sansa to be more proactive, and this might be her moment. It would mean that Jon and Sansa’s intentions are aligned and that Sansa can use what she has learnt over the past five seasons to help her family.
However it happens, I just want a happy reunion between Jon, Sansa and Rickon by the end of the season.
GreatJon and SmallJon for the burned bodies?
Jon will meet them, they’ll reveal Rickon and Osha. (maybe Sansa will be there this time) After the meeting the Umbers tell to Jon that they must be beside at the Boltons, becuse they wanna betray them. But Roose or Ramsay find this out and Ramsay burns GreatJon and SmallJon.
There’s NO way Sansa is running to LF, if so they could have just avoided the marriage and everything. Ramsay told Sansa that Jon is at castle black for a reason, they wouldn’t add it for jack shit. It’s where she’s going.
Also WIC is full of shit, trust Sue over them anyday and she hasn’t said anything about LF being at the battle sooo.
Jon,
If I had to guess I’d say Arya and Sansa
I know that the books and the show are miles apart at this point, so this may be irrelevant, but in the books
someone, I think the Ghost of High Heart, has a vision of Sansa “slaying a giant in the snow.” There’s been debate about what this means, but with the information that Sansa will be at a northern battle with a giant, and potentially fighting against a house (Umbers) whose sigil is a giant and who are allegedly – albeit inexplicably, at this point – allied with the Boltons, it’s curious. Could lend some book-based credence to the idea that the Umbers are fighting against the Starks. Maybe also a hint that Sansa bringing in the Vale troops is decisive in the battle against the Bolton alliance, since I cannot see her actually picking up a sword and slaying anyone in the literal sense. [/ spoiler]
Possibly, though, that has nothing to do with anything.
Crossfield,
Sorry, I wanted to link you some pics I saved of what he said but it didn’t pass moderation. All his posts have been deleted a month ago.
fierce as a wolverine,
This is fascinating, actually. I always wondered what that vision meant.
Matt,
I think you should. There are so many Matts and Matthews who post here that I can barely keep up.
For a new name, you could just combine the first name of a character with the last name of another. It worked well enough for me. 😛
Anyway, Littlefinger is definitely the wildcard in all of this. I was worried he might wreck the Stark forces during or after Snowbowl, but I don’t think he will as the Vale lords who have traditionally been allies of the Starks would probably not take too kindly to that idea.
My real concern is what Littlefinger plans to do after the North has been taken back from the Boltons. He seemingly wants the North (and Sansa) for himself, but what schemes will he hatch in order to make that happen?
I have a creeping feeling one of them will be to turn Sansa against Jon somehow, perhaps by planting seeds of doubt in her mind regarding Jon’s true intentions in helping retake Winterfell, his soft spot for the Wildlings, and perhaps even his true parentage if Littlefinger knows something about that (and I’m beginning to think he might).
I hope though that Sansa will ultimately see through Littlefinger and do what needs to be done to protect herself and her family from him… preferably in the form of a dagger through the heart.
fierce as a wolverine,
Apollo,
Hmmm, my assumption was that 6.01 would pick up almost immediately after 5.10. If memory serves, Sansa & Theon made their leap after seeing Ramsay re-enter Winterfell. It will take Ramsay very little time to find Myranda splat on the ground and Sansa & Reek missing. I’m guessing D&D would like to show Ramsay full-on crazy when he makes these discoveries.
In the book Ramsay made the (incorrect) deduction that Stannis and Jon were in cahoots. So it made sense to me that the double-flambé would be intended to shock Jon and whoever else the Boltons perceived were aligned against them.
remember Mel she had a vision in the fire about being within Winterfell. Not sure if this confirms she could die or not lol
A man should not cry for magical news like this. But a man will.
me too
The deaths could in battle could certainly be on the Bolton side. I think this is the end of Ramsey and Roose.
Mel had visions in the fire showing herself at Winterfell, so prolly doesnt die in battle
Except that Sue described them as characters we know. These two would not qualify.
Or it is where Ramsay is going to assume that she’s gone, once he figures out she’s not hiding somewhere in Winterfell. That is part of the reason why I suspect that the figures on the cross will be the Night’s Watch. Of course, I have long suspected that Ramsay would be the one to (inadvertently) let the Walkers through the Wall.
Moreover, it looks like Sansa could be with Jon. Given that Jon cannot hang around the Wall once he is revived, that would suggest that she heads elsewhere. Perhaps someone is going to harbor them both.
Why? With the Wildlings on his side, as well as whatever loyalists remain, it should be no trouble at all to take control of Castle Black. Thorne and co. number less than a dozen.
Wimsey,
Right, the one thing I’ve been thinking is that if Sansa’s arc and goal is really to retake Winterfell, would she run to the Wall? or Would she try somehow to hook up with Littlefinger, who the writers have said didn’t know about Ramsey’s perversions, and use the Vale army she knows exists?
As much as I hate the idea of Sansa running back to Littlefinger, from her perspective, would she go hide at the Wall where Ramsey mentioned Jon is? Maybe she HAS learned and she’s more cunning.
How they unite with Rickon is kind of the biggest question. They’ve cast 2 Northern lords, and Jon is in Stark clothes, ie he’s not marching straight from the Wall. They go elsewhere, clearly, before this battle. Either they meet there before or actually Jon/Sansa meet for the first on the battlefield, even if they communicated before.
Nadia,
She would run to the Wall because she’s now on the run from the Boltons with her only firmly-established company being a malnourished and maltreated eunuch. She knows where Castle Black is. She has no idea where Littlefinger is, is not expecting him to return with an army, and would have to travel a much longer distance to get to the Vale.
Think about it – burning is Mel’s thing. Perhaps the Bolton’s lost the battle and she now gets the pleasure of sacrificing Roose and Ramsay to R’Hollor on their own Sigils. Good fun there.
Sean C.,
I think Sansa and Theon will be found by the Vale army very early on around Winterfell in episode 1 or 2 instead of Stannis’s army in the book. LF will send Theon back home with some kind of promise of alliance. He will manipulate Sansa with some kind of apology, and at this point she will have no choice but to stick with him, she won’t say « no thanks, I’m better off all alone in the snow, with no army, no food and Ramsay after me ! ». She will go back to her book story, without Harry, but with the Vale army going North, and Theon will catch up with the Iron Islands storyline. And Sansa will reunite with Jon during SnowBowl.
And what will the vale army do between then and snowbowl…? More importantly how will Sansa sitting around doing nothing be an amazing arc for her? LF has to moblize the vale for battle and royce has little filming this year and none this month.
Ummm no. Mance Rayder was sent to retrieve Fake Arya from Boltons and it was heeps ago before the battle. Jon doesn’t know that Sansa is in Boltons hand I believe, and even if he knows I doubt he would send Tormund, and if he does why on earth Tormund would stay with him if he would learn that Sansa already escaped ?
That’s totally different outcome, no way The Biggest Member of the Grrth is going to be captured ! I think – if it’s Tormund – he’ll be caught when retrieving Rickon from Umbers.
And Edd is very doubtful, Ramsay wouldn’t raid the Wall as NW and Wildlings would smash his ass in defensive battle from atop of the wall, and on the other hand if Jon would go to Winterfell to end the bastard he would not leave the wall with little shits like Olly or with Allister (both propably dead as we speak, killed by infurated wildlings or resurrected Jon) but with his friend – Eddison.
Tormund, Davos, Mellisandre, Smalljon, Osha, Stannises body – no way it’s going to be someone else !
Osha, Stannis and Mellisandre – for pure shock
Davos, Tormund – to make Jon and Wildlings/NW pissed
Smalljon – to contain the Umbers and make Northmen pissed
I’m afraid it’s two people to piss off the North and the Wildlings that are sided with the North.
RIP Rickon and Osha
Hopefully, the two burning bodies on X-crosses are Dan and Dave. Then maybe GRRM will volunteer to write another episode again.
no one,
haha lets hope so,
Grenouille,
Why would Littlefinger ever send Theon away?
Moreover, if Sansa is found by the Vale, where are they at Snowbowl? What are they doing all season, seeing as by season’s end Ramsay clearly still has a huge army?
Personally, I don’t think Sansa will kill anyone. Ever. I don’t think she will have to because she will (hopefully) have loyal people around her who won’t let her get near danger. Again.
I think the Bolton sacrifices will be Theon and Osha. Theon will sacrifice himself to throw Ramsay off Sansas’ trail and Osha will get caught returning with Rickon. Her situation may be similar if she, along with Davos and Rickon, runs into Bolton men and tells them to run/ride/escape and she tries to throw them off their scent.
I don’t think Sansa will be in the thick of any fighting. She would be a sitting duck unless there was some master-class sword training we didn’t see going on off screen. And Jon wouldn’t let her near the danger. He would find somewhere safe for her to hide. She’s not a damsel but dammit, let’s get this girl out of harms way for once!
This does make me wish Arya returns to Westeros sooner than later. Who knows…maybe she will, but I want a Arya/Jon reunion pretty much more than any other on this show. That would bring on some water works.
kells,
Theon is going back to the Iron Islands.
may not be perfect but it ain’t junk either.
It’s a big job doing what they are doing.
Castle Black is defenseless if it is attacked from south of the wall.
Spoiler from Los siete reinos.
Edith,
But couldn’t that be anyone?
You know, so THIS *is* annoying. So the mods of ALL the three sites (wotw/wic/l7r) all probably know. But won’t share.
No. *known* characters, per se, may imply known by the time of the battle. I.e. introduced in S6.
Yaga,
That’s true, I see.
I’m not thinking it’ll be too long before us peasants find out, tbh.
Yaga,
If they say too much. Their sources might lose their jobs and face some consequences. It’s not that easy. We should be thankful that Sue said anything on the matter.
I really don’t wanna know. I’ll find out on the night the episode airs, and not before.
Tormund, Edd, Davos are looking to be candidates then. They were in Season 5 and fresh in viewers’ mind. Are these three alive in the books? No matter, this is all beyong book territory. I had dreaded the thought of Edd dying at Hardhome and was so relieved he lived. It will be horrific if he dies being burnt on a cross. 🙁
Kay,
Out of them all only Davos makes sense. Technically speaking what if they bring Stannis’ body to display that he killed him in the battle before. Stannis was regarded as the best battle commander around and Ramsay will claim that he killed him. Basically I killed the best opponent and you have no chance. But Davos seems as likelier.
You may find this irrational, but while I fully accepted this argument when it was just Sue, now that apparently a *lot* of people know… I no longer do, as much. Instead, I’m looking forward to a disappointment…. “oh, so it was just the Named Extra #5 from scene 5 in the third episode of the fourth season…? Oh, so THAT’S what the hubbub was about! (And that’s why they didn’t tell us!)” Remember that slave leader that Daenerys had executed? I fear it’s someone like this. A bit player.
I’d like at least to be assured that it’s not just a named, known character, but a named, known character we spent some time with. The kind that people do speculate about – Davos, Osha, Tormund, Mel… The kind that’s *worth* speculating about.
Interesting clue from Los siete reinos, I was starting to think it will only be two scouts dying or something like that. So it is one known character, and one character that will likely be introduced this season.
I dont know why people keep on thinking that Littlefinger and the Vale will be involved with this battle. There has been no sighting of any Vale banners. If this is suppose to be an army then there should be some sightings by now. Littlefinger or Aidan Gillian has not been spotted around Saintsfield. Yohn Royce is the only character from the Vale that we know, and he has confirmed that he wasn’t shooting during September/ October. He will only be shooting scenes again in December.
At this stage it really does not seem as if the Vale will be a part of this battle. Of course it would be very nice to get 100% confirmation on this, but going by what is known the Vale and Littlefinger will not play a role in this battle.
Speaking of sightings, we haven’t really seen a lot of Kristofer Hivju so far, or not much that I can remember.
First of all, good job, chums. I got home late Wednesday, read some of this, then read up to about post 690 during a 4 hour bus ride. Just incredible to see this level of attention, and it’s so much more entertaining and fulfilling than facebook comments on the Republican debate. I just hope to see some of you on American Gods forums in a few years…
But also sorry to the posts 700+ plus that I skipped because this page is murder on my 4S.
As for the upside-down burners…Rickon: whew. Coulda been a strong contender. I also applaud Sue’s discretion; no doubt her continued access means she has to hold onto a bunch of off-the-record spoilers, but nipping something so [emotionally] outlandish in the bud was wise.
I suspect that the Pink Letter will broadly be adapted this season…
But I can also see the Boltons just assuming Jon still has loyalties to the Watch, and there is a certain poetry in Alliser and Tormund…their pre-burning dialogue would be a masterclass in badassery.
Umbers joining the Boltons? Umbers joining then betraying the Boltons? At this point a lot of house names are just words. See: the Thenns going from the most “Westerosi” wildlings to being scarred-dickhead cannibals. So maybe the Umbers do suck against book logic.
Edith,
That narrows it down to about a hundred characters.
First of all, good job, chums. I got home late Wednesday, read some of this, then read up to about post 690 during a 4 hour bus ride. Just incredible to see this level of attention, and it’s so much more entertaining and fulfilling than facebook comments on the Republican debate.
But also sorry to the posts 700+ plus that I skipped because this page is murder on my 4S.*
As for the upside-down burners…Rickon: whew. Coulda been a strong contender. I also applaud Sue’s discretion; no doubt her continued access means she has to hold onto a bunch of off-the-record spoilers, but nipping something so [emotionally] outlandish in the bud was wise.
I suspect that the Pink Letter will broadly be adapted this season…
But I can also see the Boltons just assuming Jon still has loyalties to the Watch, and there is a certain poetry in Alliser and Tormund. Just imagine their final dialogue!
*for real though: this site is too popular to not have comments break down into pages; spent more time on my oldish phone reloading this whole single page than reading it…
Lisa0527,
I was thinking in that direction too. The last scene in Season 1 Episode 2 The Kingsroad cuts back and forth between Bran lying motionless in bed and Ned approaching Lady. And the moment Lady dies, Bran opens his eyes. So maybe one of the Direwolf probably Ghost has to die so Jon can live.
Littlefingers original house sigil is the Titan of Braavos befor he took a mockingbird as his own sigil.
So no Smalljon. Allrightyyy then. Any other meaty spoilers ?
Edith,
So not a new character then.
Oh, by the way – where is it spoiled, exactly? I tried to look at L7R, but couldn’t find this spoiler.
Ser Goodmen of House Twenty,
I have to check the comment section again to see if Javi Marcos (one of the members of L7R) has given another clue
Yaga,
In the comment section. I took the screenshot of it. You have to scroll down to read it. He gave the clue (Javi Marcos) because a lot of people were saying that the bodies were probably just stannis and selyse so…
Edith,
Thanks! ? off to updating the unified reference….
The way i see it, Ramsay flays his father and his wife alive for being pregnant with a legitimate son and declared himself warden of the north. I can never understand how someone will call such vicious psychopath son.
Jon,
Roose Bolton and his wife.
i’ve always been afraid…
Nice spot! He looks a bit different there though, seems to have lost some weight 😉
R’hllor does not seem to require sacrifice to revive the dead. In both book and TV series, it is just a granted wish.
I do not know how much theory GRRM has created for his different supernatural entities, but it seems that sacrifice to R’hllor generates more “destructive” power (killing, altering weather). Sex can be used to create shadow monsters. A great number of other things (revival, exploding birds from afar) seem doable just from “prayer” or wish.
At any rate, there is no reason to think that anyone has to be sacrificed for Mel to revive Jon. To the contrary: it would actually go against what we’ve seen so far.
Edith,
I read that as ‘One of the bodies was alive in season 5….”, maybe suggesting one of the bodies was not alive?
I suspect that will be the case, too. I’ve long suspected that the Pink Letter is going to wind up being the pebble that starts the avalanche and leads to the Wall falling. Nothing we have seen confirms that: but what we have seen/heard so far is consistent with that.
(I would bet on the Wall falling at the climax of the season, too.)
just me,
Do you know how Ramsay was conceived? Ramsay is as much a psychopath as his dear old dad. The difference between them is that Roose is cold, patient and calculating whereas Ramsay is volatile and less cunning. They are both vile creatures.
Lisa0527,
” As Jon dies the Stark theme plays (with a bit more cello
than usual, cuz it’s a sad scene), but just at the end it
changes to a higher pitched sound that is completely
different.”
I noticed the same change of music and formed the following speculation: Season 6 will start with the usual previously-on clips, ending with the scene of Jon bleeding out. However, it continues for a few seconds longer and Jon’s eyes go “warg”, i.e., he wargs into Ghost, as I believe he will do in the books. Cut immediately to a shot of Ghost then the opening credits. It would really start the season off with a WTF moment. How he then gets back into his body is anybody’s guess, but it will happen quickly. Perhaps Mel revives his body and he wargs back into himself? Who knows?
more importantly jon snow ramsey and sansa proves its not a flashback jon snow lives!
Sansarya,
Yeah you’re right. It says “at least one of them”! So maybe the other one is already dead or “new”?
I really wonder where Sansa goes now. I still am hoping the Wall, but with Jon in his Stark clothes it’s obvious that he goes elsewhere – maybe to the Umbers? – before this battle, especially since this is at the end of the season. I somehow doubt Sansa and Jon spend all season together, and perhaps only unite right before or at the battle w/ different forces.
I highly doubt that Sansa is one of the people on the cross. Ramsay is a sociopath and all, but he can’t be that politically inept. He needs to father a child with Sansa to establish his line, secure Winterfell as his own, and fight off any threats and claims of illegitimacy coming from Fat Walda’s child. A Stark child would probably have more support in the North to rule Winterfell -regardless if it’s Ramsay’s- than anyone coming from a Bolton/Frey union. A Bolton-Stark child is super important to Ramsay, that’s why Myranda made those threats of mutilating Sansa except for her child bearing parts before her demise, and kept telling Sansa that her life was dispensable after she bore a child.
Therefore, if Sansa is hypothetically re-captured by Ramsay (which I hope/bet won’t happen), she will probably face the same rape and torture, perhaps even more intensely, but not death. However, if she bears a child/ or Roose and Fat Walda are disposed of, then she faces mortal danger at the hands of Ramsay.
Regardless, I hope she makes it out with Theon alright and reunites with Jon and they kill him together, and that the closest she gets to Ramsay again will be his dead body or to kill him herself.
I read it as one of them was alive at the end… Maybe not both.
It would be interesting if one of them was Stannis, and the other maybe Mel or Davos. I am still interested to see the fallout of what happened to Shireen and if this occurs before this battle I cannot forsee them making nice at the Wall together.
It also can’t be a Stark because that would cost Ramsey the Northern Lords. I think it’s Roose and Walder Frey. Think about it. He gains support from the North for Avenging the Red Wedding, takes out his rival father, and bleeds support from Jon’s cause. He can cut a deal with Walder’s sons to keep the Twins in the fold, as well. Now Jon, not Ramsey, is playing the role of the usurper, and gets to present himself publicly as the “just” Ramsey Bolton. This would be the most bittersweet justice for the Red Wedding. Yes, Roose and Walder die in a horrible way for their crimes, but not for the right reason. It’s quite a twist really.
My tinfoil theory.
Melisandre is one of the cross people. She goes to Winterfell (as an envoy, as a mole, fleeing something/someone, is captured), thus explaining the vision of walking on the walls of Winterfell. I like the idea of her proving her loyalty to Jon by going as a mole to free Sansa a la BookMance.
She is part of ShowPink Letter, drawing Jon & co.
She then is burned upside down on the cross, and the last thing she sees is the Bolton banners being raised through the fires consuming her. Thus explaining the vision of Bolton banners falling to the ground in flames. (raised, not falling because she’s upside down, get it?)
Please someone poke holes in this one ’cause I can’t get it out of my head.
RE: everyone who knows who the dead characters are.
Just thought I’d chime in on this, as I noticed some comments about it. Just one Lion’s humble opinion.
Am I hungry for answers? Of course. Will it be frustrating waiting for the season to air? Always. But running a site like this takes care and discretion. The line has to be drawn somewhere. As impatient as I am during off-season, I wouldn’t want to know *everything* that’s happening in S6. An insane amount of work goes into this show and I for one am excited to be shocked & surprised come this spring. Until then, I’d better go get my tin foil hat!
[Spoilin’ abound here]
People keep bringing up names that are important to us, the readers/viewers, but not necessarily important to those fighting (the north). People like-
-Brienne/Pod
-Davos
-Little Finger
-__ of the Vale
-Edd
-Stannis (sorry bruh, nobody likes you)
None of these people would strike a nerve for the North (or Wildings). People who would be a meaningful spite towards those against Ramsay include-
-Jon (but that ain’t happenin’)
-Sansa
-Rickon
-__Jon Umber (either one)
-Tormund (Wildlings make up a large portion of that anti-Bolton army)
-Theon (many reasons this could be the case; both to punish him and to get the north on Ramsay’s side– they all hate Theon)
[Cue spoilers]
I think one of the two Starks will be a victim, unfortunately. Likely Rickon. There have been rumors of a “Stark death” at the battle. While Jon certainly looks like a Stark this coming season, he won’t be the one to die, he’ll likely be the one Ramsay is taunting. That leaves… Sansa or Rickon as one of them. Given that Ramsay needs Sansa, despite the fact that she left him, and he also needs Rickon to be dead, we’ll have to assume it’s the young and wild wolf. Possibly an Umber up there with him would be a reasonable explanation of how he gets there in the first place. Given that this episode appears to be #9, a lot will happen to lead up to this; kidnappings and betrayals are not out of the question.
Wildcard:
-Roose
I don’t buy this one. But– it could be Ramsay playing “I got that evil guy who ruined the north for you” in a play to get the North to lower their swords and turn against Jon. That would certainly be interesting.
Reader,
Mel has to meet Arya again.
Bo Snow,
Sue already said that Rickon isn’t one of the bodies burning on the crosses.
Reader,
I like your theory and it’s certainly plausible. If Mel’s main contribution to the story is resurrecting Jon, then once that happens she’s dispensable. People have said repeatedly she’s not very good at working out the context of her visions using examples of things I don’t think were in the show, so I assume it’s more obvious in the books (which I haven’t read). She presumes it’s linked to something she wants to happen so it would be an interesting twist if it’s actually the opposite. And of course she burned so many people it’s a fitting end for her. And I really don’t like her so that leaves just one spot that might be filled by someone I don’t want to get Ramsayfied rather than two. The only thing I worry about is that it might mean the other person is Davos – noooooooooooooo 🙁
Of course there are about 7,000 possible candidates and I wouldn’t even attempt to narrow down how likely any of them are at this point. So for the moment I’d score you plausibility – high, likelihood – no possible way of knowing, how much I want it to be her – lots and lots! 🙂
EDIT: Sorry you were asking people to poke holes in it, so okay it’s rubbish because Mel herself is the chosen one and will be the last person standing. That do? 😉
Lulus Mum,
The chosen one for sure! I actually love Mel, and can’t wait to see how she develops after the Stannis debacle.
Sean C.,
Thank you!!!!
I would like Mel to undergo sort of a redemption arc. I imagine her faith both in R’hllor and in herself has been thoroughly shaken after Stannis’s demise. Once Jon returns to the living and she realizes who the Warrior of Light really is, I hope she’ll have more humility and perhaps be less inclined to, y’know… burn people alive, especially after the catastrophic results of the last one (which I hope Mel might also feel some regret for).
Of course, she might not change at all and just do the same thing with Jon that she did with Stannis… but I hope not.
Bo Snow,
But how would the Bolton men react to that? They are loyal to Roose. Just look at Steelshanks.
But as the books stress, only very practiced wargs do that. Jon is not a practiced warg. Moreover, once a warg does this, he rapidly fades into the animal. There is no more hoping around from animal to animal. Wargs can fade into animals while they are still alive if they linger too long: Jojen warns Bran about that. So, there would be very little left of Jon to jump back into his old body.
If this was going to happen, then the books and the show would have had to spend a bit of time developing this skill in Jon: the gun fired late has to be hung early, after all. The show didn’t do it, and the book actively discusses how Jon refused to do it: so one medium never hung the gun, and the other medium took the gun down and put it away!
People say that, but the truth is that Mel does a very good job of coming up with fairly simple explanations for her visions. However, she is not omniscient: although she is correct that the Azor Ahai prophecy explains Stannis well, she is unaware that Daeny fits it better than Stannis does. If she sees a girl in the snow, she does not know the girl’s name: only what little she sees of her. If she sees someone wearing Renly’s armor, then she does not see who is wearing it: only that it is being worn. And it seems that a lot of her visions are metaphors for what is to come.
At any rate, I do not see either a “redemptive” or “sacrificial” arc for Mel. She’s a believer, and she might have some temporary setbacks to her faith (e.g., Stannis’ death): but she will rebound. Think of her as one of those nutty Christians who keeps predicting the end-of-the-world: they always are surprised the day afterwards, but then they always get back on their horse and predict another world-ending within a couple of months.
I am interested to see what happens in the book in the aftermath of the Pink Letter and Jon’s assassination attempt. Presumably Mel will help save Jon: but how will she react to the news of Stannis’ demise? I think that I can guess how Selyse will react (think: barbeque….) But is Mel going to realize that what R’hllor wanted all along was to get her to the Wall with Jon? (And, again: just what the heck are this R’hllor thing’s interests in all of this? Why is it mobilizing people against the Walkers? Will Mel ever understand this? If she does, then will than end her devotion? Questions!)
I suspect that Mel would be very difficult to capture, if not impossible. For one thing, I would not be surprised if she can use her magic to avoid detection or to look like someone else. For another, it seems that she can detect danger to her person. And for a third, she’s really good with fire. Even if she did not use fire to escape, then she would control any fire on a cross.
Wall Builder,
I saw this many months ago, but I don’t think this is legit
http://static1.purebreak.com.br/articles/5/15/37/5/@/75906-em-game-of-thrones-jon-snow-kit-620×0-5.jpg
Okay, my tinfoil is officially poked to shreds. You’ve got to admit, the burning upside down Bolton banners was pretty inspired 😛
It’s not Mel. Not Rickon, and for other reasons stated, likely not Sansa, (northerners wouldn’t like that), Jon (he is in battle gear at the time, not on a cross) Davos (wouldn’t be relevant to anyone), Roose/Walda (would that really rally the Bolton crew?). Who then? Are there any good ideas?
Now I’m thinking Tormund. A good way to rally the wildling-hating northerners, and meaningful to Jon & Co. Oh, so sad if this is the case!
After thinking about it, I’m now guessing Smalljon Umber and Osha are the bodies on the crosses. That’s why the Umbers are now siding with the Boltons, out of fear. Osha is on the cross and Rickon is Ramsay’s hostage. That’s why young Rickon is present at the battle, to taunt Jon. Then Rickon die during the battle. When all hopes are lost, Sansa arrives with a fresh army, the Bolton are defeated and Sansa is Queen in the North. I’m perhaps way off but it would all make sense to me.
Grenouille,
I may be wrongly digging in my heels, but I still don’t (and won’t until I see it, or it is confirmed here) buy the Umbers truly siding with the Boltons.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
In my speculation it would be out of fear. Ramsay burns Smalljon alive, the next lord will get the same treatment if he doesn’t cooperate. Just like Lord Cerwyn in season 5.
Grenouille,
From another house, I would find that believable, but not from the Umbers.
We’re just approaching it differently. It seems like you’re accepting they do side with the Boltons and trying to understand/reason through why they would. That’s perfectly understandable, and likely more reasonable than I’m being about it. I’m refusing to believe they side with the Boltons…other than with the express purpose of turning on them, so not really siding with them.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Agreed. The very notion is beyond ridiculous, and I’d definitely have a few things to say about the writing team if that somehow ends up being the case.
btw – I saw where Nylon called WotW “the best go-to source for GoT intel.” Very cool!
Curious to se what can people discuss after 788 comments I clicked the post only to find out that people is still chewing the same theories and especially the one that Rickon will be on the cross when Sue and many others after her made it clear that it is not Rickon. Oh well long way until April… But maybe somebody has to repeat that IT IS NOT RICKON every ten comments. I am sure this post will be the most discussed ever…and the conclusion will be that Rickon is on the cross, flayed and burnt…
Robb Snow,
Yeah, I tend to be pretty open to tweaking things and certain changes, or at least I try to reserve judgement until I see how things play out, but if they have the Umbers genuinely siding with the Boltons, I just don’t see how they could do it in such a way I could accept it.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Well, we do not know what Winter holds, do we? What will happen to the tattered remnants of Stannis’ army after the Boltons defeat him? If they are all destroyed, then it’s pretty much moot: there will not be any Umbers left. What if the Boltons offer an amnesty to any Stark Loyalists that agree to help retrieve Ned’s Girl, punish the Watch for getting involved in kingdom affairs, and then also to take on the invading Wildling army?
I am not saying that this will happen: but it certainly is not impossible that things like this could happen.
Fez,
Re: who is on the crosses
The Other New Scenes and Returning Motifs:
The notion that Young Griff is cut is as stupid as the one that the Iron Isles were to be cut and never to be seen again. There are only so few scenes a show can do and budget for. Young Griff will probably be a major actor. And things need to more compact but almost nothing gets cut that is not worthy of being cut as absurd or outlandish. In fact, the show´s main problem is not cutting, it is the opposite – of including too much (Dorne for example last season and so forth).
It would be really lame if Roose is one of the guys Ramsay killed… I mean wtf? If anything Roose should use Ramsay in some way. I mean even the show writers have shown Roose to be a really smart dude, he even outsmarted Littlefinger. It would be really lame and cliched if he is just overthrown by Ramsay and wouldn’t make sense.
Andy,
Why not? Roose and Ramsay’s relationship has been pretty strained since we first saw them together in early Season 4. Roose’s scolding clearly shames and embitters Ramsay deeply, you can just see it in his face. And when Roose vaguely threatened Ramsay’s position with Walda’s pregnancy, you could see it made him pretty angry and he directly confronted his father about it later. It also clearly bothered him when Sansa taunted him about his bastardy and Walda’s pregnancy.
Now with Sansa and Theon escaping, I can only imagine how Roose will react. No doubt he will scold Ramsay pretty sharply for it.
“All you have, I gave you. You would do well to remember that, bastard. Now go find Theon and the Stark girl before you make me rue the day I raped your mother.”
We book readers also know Ramsay is probably not above kinslaying, having possibly murdered his half-brother. Book Roose also suspects he might murder any children Walda has. If he would do that, why wouldn’t he turn on his father, especially if his status as heir and a “true Bolton” is compromised?
So I think it’s pretty much inevitable that Ramsay will turn on his father, and it certainly won’t be without precedent. I’d be more shocked if he didn’t turn on Roose, in fact.
Robert,
By all accounts Young Griff was cut and everything points to that. His arc or part of it was given to Daeny and maybe Trystane. His reveal would cheapen Jon’s. No need for it. Preston is wrong like many times before. Mel Jon’s bride? No. Edd buring makes no sene. Davos or maybe Tormund if he’s leading raid or espionage on Boltons. Then why would Jon send leader of the wildlings. Anyway I doubt it’s Mel since she is going nowhere and be around Jon.
Has anyone considered one of the bodies to be Stannis’? It would be an easy way for Ramsey to taunt Jon, with the seeds of the Boltons knowledge of their alliance sewn in S5. You had Roose openly telling Ramsey that “Stannis Baratheon has an army at Castle Black, he means to take the North…” & Ramsey’s comment to Sansa about Jon being a bastard who rose to the rank of Lord Commander, it’s obvious they were allied. It’s also easy to assume, from an outsiders perspective, that Jon achieved that position FROM Stannis.
Really? But this GoT thing about killing your favourite characters is started bore most of the audience. It was really good in the beginning but it repeated itself so much, so it bored audience.
GaiusB,
dothrakian raven,
Who is Sue my friend? Rickon thing is extremely stupid. It can’t be true because unlike the books Lord Umber was not present in the Red Wedding so he is free and plotting against Boltons to restore Stark rule over the North. It was confirmed and also Rickon Stark is at Last Hearth the seat of House Umber since the sack of Winterfell (season 2?). Umbers are hiding/fostering him and plotting with other Northern lords to restore him. Umbers are loyal to Starks as most of the Northern houses. So this Umbers for House Bolton and giving Rickon Stark to them is extremely stupid. I don’t think they will do such stupid thing which will greatly damage shows quality. I don’t know about the cross thing. Maybe it’s just a false rumor. Just like the ones we had before season 5 finale. (You know how Stannis cut Roose and Ramsay in two)
I don’t know about the cross thing. Maybe it’s just a false rumor. Just like the ones we had before season 5 finale. (You know how Stannis cut Roose and Ramsay in two). But House Umber’s support for Boltons is extremely unlogical and it would damage the shows quality. It can’t be true because unlike the books Lord Umber was not present in the Red Wedding so he is free and plotting against Boltons to restore Stark rule over the North. It was confirmed and also Rickon Stark is at the Last Hearth the seat of House Umber since the sack of Winterfell (season 2?). Umbers are hiding/fostering him and plotting with other Northern lords to restore him. Umbers are loyal to Starks as most of the Northern houses. I don’t know about the cross thing is true or not (probably not). But if it is true I think it is something about secret Stark supporters among Boltons my best guess is some from House Manderly. This season’s second episode is named “White Harbor” which is named after the seat of House Manderly and from the books we know that House Manderly is secretly plotting against Boltons with other Northern lords to destroy Boltons and restore Stark rule. Only true Northern allies of Boltons are House Dustin and House Karstark and both of them have personal grudges against Starks because of the lost of their loved ones. By the way even one of the Karstark Lords (I can’t remember his name) is supporting Starks and against Boltons. So if cross thing is true it should be about some spy in the Winterfell. I don’t think it will be Davos, Thormund or anyone. How can Boltons capture them during the siege? If they attack the wall and overwhelmed then yes maybe, but other than that it is impossible and Boltons don’t know the secret passages of Winterfell so they can’t secretly ambush siegers. (Don’t mention about Ramsay and his 20 men, it was one of the stupidest things in the show. A savage bastard without any military experience against Stannis a military genius and the best commander in the Westeros)
King of Winter,
2nd episode is not called ”white harbor” just rumours on Reddit, nothing more.
Wich where confirmed to be fake by Sue herself.
2 people will be on the cross it is confirmed, we also know it isn’t Rickon.
Also we are not getting Mandarly, there has been no casting call for someone that fits him, no rumours, absolutly nothing too sugest he is in
And we are already getting 2 northern lords: Umber and Karstark. If he was in then we would have founded out by now.
Mihnea,
Damn it! How can they do the “Great Northern Conspiracy” thing without Manderlys, they cut too much. At least Rickon won’t be death I’m relieved. They can burn Stannis’ corpse as a warning to the “2nd” army come to siege them. It would make sense.
King of Winter,
By replacing Mandarly with Umber.
Mandarly knows where Rickon is. Umber already has him.
Mihnea,
If so then one of the guys who will burn is probably Lord Greatjon Umber. Damn he was one of my favourite Northmen. He always reminded Billy Connolly. At least Rickon will be safe.
King of Winter,
Oh, it isn’t the Greatjon that is back. It’s his son the Smalljon that has been casted.
We have no news of Greatjon coming back.
They cannot give YG’s “arc” to Daeny! YG (and the issues he creates) will be part of Daeny’s arc: remember, he’s an supporting character that’s going to provide issues for Daeny.
And they cannot make Trystane the same sort of supporting character. YG will create issues because, given one way of looking at it, Daeny should acquiesce to him. However, there is absolutely no reason why she should do so for Trystane.
Mihnea,
But in the cast list they describe the man as “Very tall, strong builded Northmen who is a leader of a Noble House” and there were very tall children of him.
King of Winter,
It was confirmed that is the Smalljon.
Mihnea,
I see. Thank you for your answers by the way, they really helped me 🙂 In this season I hope wolves will return again.
King of Winter,
No problem. We had so many news it gets easy to miss some of them. 🙂
About 40 prior posters! However: 1) all of that time later (we probably are talking months), Stannis’ body would not be recognizable; 2) nobody would really care about burning Stannis, anyway.
Why would B&W include it? This “Northern Conspiracy” probably will have little bearing on the overall story, as it does not directly effect any of the “Big 5 or 6” characters. As such, it is very (very!) probable that this will not be a big thing in the books, either: this smacks of “Mt. Molehill”!
Except, of course, that the audience is bigger than ever and the audience marks are as high as ever. There is no sign that audiences are growing bored of the show.
Wimsey,
No not the show. I’m talking about the concept about killing your favourite characters. The audience get used to it, so it’s not surprising as it was in the beginning. Why do you say that about Northern Conspiracy? Doesn’t that affects overall story? Afterall conspiracy is about restoring Stark rule over North.
King of Winter,
It’s not Rickon on that cross, but he could still die during the battle
As for this killing your favorite characters thing, people need to rewatch season four. With the exception of Oberyn (and Pyp and Grenn but they are super minor), everyone who dies is an asshole. People always remember the good guys’ deaths more than the bad guys’.
Robb Snow,
I still don’t see how that would benefit Ramsay in any other way besides personal satisfaction. As I said before, the Bolton soldiers are loyal to Roose and the other Northmen are not going to join him just because he burns his own father. True, they might be happy that Roose is gone, but they know Ramsay is no better than him.
One of Roose Bolton’s 20 good leeches,
I agree that it’s a bad move and quite stupid, especially when most of the North is against you.
But I can totally see Ramsey do it and even thinking he will win. He does things more from impulse, emotions,..etc. not from a logical pont of view.
It’s about putting Rickon in charge: but Rickon is not one of the main characters. What is important to the over-arching story are those things that affect the evolution of Jon, Daeny, Tyrion, Bran and Arya. Sansa might be on that list, too. For individual stories, how Jaime, Theon, Brienne, Cersei, Davos, etc., evolve also is important.
However, the Northern Conspiracy is going to have little effect on the dynamics of any of these characters.
One of Roose Bolton’s 20 good leeches,
Well I don’t necessarily think Roose will be one of the people on the crosses, as that would clearly imply Ramsay was his killer. Instead, I think Ramsay will just say someone else killed Roose, perhaps “assassins” sent by Jon Snow or the Northern lords. Most people will probably not really believe that, but I believe most Bolton men are slimy enough that they’d just go with it anyway and accept Ramsay as the new Lord Bolton.
And as Mihnea pointed out, Ramsay has difficulties with impulse control. In fact, Ramsay is pretty much a textbook example of antisocial personality disorder. He’s a loose cannon and it was a mistake for Roose to legitimize him… and it will be his undoing (and the undoing of House Bolton).
I know why you really don’t want Ramsay to kill Roose though! You really like Roose as a character. So do I. I think he’s one of the best villains and Michael McElhatton is one of the best actors in the show, right up there with Charles Dance and Stephen Dillane. It’ll be sad to see him go, but it won’t be unexpected.
Robb Snow,
Yes. Michael McElhatton is one of my favourite actors in the show after Sean Bean and Stephen Dillane. I also love Clive Mantle the actor who plays Great Jon Umber. I still don’t understand what would Ramsay gain with burning Roose. Bolton army wouldn’t support him when they learn the bastard killed their liege lord. Since Roose legitimize him and impregnate Walda Frey there was rivalry between those two. I always thought either Roose will kill Ramsay or otherwise. Roose will certainly punish Ramsay for the escape of Sansa and Theon. By the way I don’t know it was in the tv show lore but in the books Ramsay poisoned Domeric Bolton the first born of Roose Bolton and his legitimate son. Ramsay killed him in order to be the heir of Dreadfort. But now it is more than that, now it is about Winterfell and whole North so it would make sense if Ramsay choose to kill Roose (he will certainly do something about Walda and the child)
King of Winter,
By the way Domeric was actually not like his dad. He was a nice and good lad. He would succeed his father, he would be a very good bannerman to Starks.
Robb Snow,
Yeah, I agree that it’s possible that Ramsay will kill Roose. No way he’s putting him on the cross though. I was actually hoping that both Ramsay and Roose would survive the battle and retreat to the Dreadfort. Walda gives birth to a healthy boy and Roose would flay Ramsay for attempting to kill his new son.
Probably doesn’t do much to drive the story forward compared to killing all the Boltons at Winterfell, but it would be pretty entertaining I think.
fierce as a wolverine,
As others have said, the giant is probably Littlefinger, whose house sigil used to be a the Titan of Braavos before he changed it.
But I agree, the slaying will not be literal, more like a “bringing down” type of thing. I can’t wait for it to happen – it’s goona be such a good scene when Littlefinger realizes that she outsmarted him.
Wimsey,
Lots of things could happen, and, no, of course we don’t know, but
Moreover, if we’d gotten the information from this site, I’d be trying to accept it and figure out why the writers went that route and how they’re going to make it work. As it stands, the information about the Umbers siding with the Boltons came from a place which is not nearly as reputable as this one, so I’ll remain skeptical as to the validity of it, and won’t take my time trying to figure out the whys and hows of something which may not turn out to be the case.
I hope it’s Roose and Ramsay on those flaming crosses. After losing the battle, The Red Lady sacrifices them to the Lord of Light on their own sigil.
Of cousre, since this would be a happy ending, it probably won’t happen on GoT.
I would miss Roose as a character though. An excellent villain he is, and the part is well acted.
Robb Snow,
One of Roose Bolton’s 20 good leeches,
King of Winter,
Well Roose is not stupid. He is a back stabber himself, he knows how it works, he is not going to just seat around and let Ramsay, who he knows pretty well, kill him and take over. As you saw in the after dinner scene in season 5, Roose is always keeping his eyes on Ramsay, Like he is sitting with a unpredictable psychopath who is going to attack him with a fork any second. Ramsay has no subtlety in his actions while Roose is a master plotter. It would be really out of character for him to die like a naive father who didn’t know what a monster his son is. Take Tywin for example, Tywin died pretty cool, he died a victorious politician, having beaten all his rivals and won the war. He was killed the way that nobody saw coming. Jaime with the help of Varys got Tyrion out of prison, then he knew a good hidden way that lead him exactly to his father’s room (thanks to Varys and the map with hidden tunnels) to kill him! That was a pretty cool death for a villain and it wasn’t out of character, as he didn’t make a stupid mistake that lead to his death, Everything was going well for him but he just never saw it that how smart and capable Tyrion is and how strong his bond with Jaime was since he never actually spend time with his children. Thats not an out of character death, Ramsay killing Roose in his sleep would be a really out of character end for Roose.
dee,
Or it could be that Sansa will end up killing her cousin, deliberately or not. He was the giant smashing her snow castle, after all.
What I actually want to know if Sansa is there with Littlefinger because that actually will help us to know where is she going after escaping Winterfell. Because if she’s with him, it means that he’s the one that finds her after jumping. Other wise I don’t see how she can do it (especially because we know that Theon comes back to the Iron Islands) and I really doubt that Brienne take her to the Vale.
This of course if the spoiler in wic is true
Something to keep in mind is that just because the Umbers are fighting alongside the Boltons, it does not mean that they surrender Rickon to him. Again, this could just be the Northerners uniting for the time being against the Wildlings and the Night Watch deserter. They could well leave Bran at home while they do that.
King of Winter,
Roose was a good bannerman until Rob started making stupid decisions.
Jason,
Well Roose has always been a very evil person inside, raping and flaying people here and there. while from what I hear, Domeric was quite a nice and well educated guy.
Jason,
I agree with you. Robb should have listened his council. Roose was one of the first who honored Eddard Stark’s call to avenge his brother, father (and their liege lord) but also both in the series and the books Roose was plotting against Robb since Stannis lost at the Blackwater. When Robb divided army in three at Riverlands. Roose was one of the commanders and he always used other houses’ soldiers in battle and send them to traps to make their army weak. I never understand that part he also warned Robb about many things like not going to Freys and his advices were always useful advices. So if he would really want to plot against Robb why would he warn him about many things? Especially about Freys? That part is really stupid.
Wimsey,
I don’t recall stating I thought the Umbers would surrender Rickon to the Boltons. In fact, I know I didn’t because I do not believe the Umbers will side with the Boltons until, as I already said, it is confirmed here, or I see it on the screen.
Edith,
Well if it is LF who finds her that means that LF and Vale army will be near WF in the very first two episodes of S6. And this is something that cannot pass unnoticed to the Boltons. It doesn’t appear to be plausible. Unless it is Brienne who finds her and then by accident looses her to the LF who is on his way to WF with the Vale army. That means that LF and Brienne will cross their “paths” and Brienne will loose Sansa (or Sansa somehow could probably manage to escape to LF). Brienne will certainly explain to Sansa that she is thinking of delivering to the safe hands of Jaimie and promise her that she will be safe with him something that Sansa will not swallow. She will prefer to run to LF and march against the Boltons at WF when she realises that LF is going to capture WF. But my instinct says that Sansa will manage to go further north to the Wall and most probably Brienne will help her escape there before she will head southwards to find Arya…
My point was that even if the Umbers oppose Bolton control of the North, then they still might well unite with the Boltons and other houses against the Wildlings and against a deserter from the Night’s Watch. “In-house” differences can be settled after the greater threat from outsiders is eliminated.
(I am not saying that I expect this per se: I am saying that it is a possible trajectory.)
Wimsey,
I hadn’t thought about that, but it would actually make sense, too. I had always assumed Littlefinger would “take care” of Robert Arryn. Still, it might be that Sansa – carelessly or because she is tricked – brings down Sweetrobin. I’d prefer Littlefinger, though. He’s had it coming for 5 books now.
I believe that is exactly what will happen. Brienne and Pod will find Sansa and Theon, and Sansa will command Brienne in the name of her mother and referring to Brienne’s oath to take her back to LF. Theon will decide that now that Sansa is in safe hands, he can go back home to reclaim his identity. Brienne will be extremely reluctant, but will obey Sansa and then part ways with her once Sansa is with LF.
Wimsey,
There are a lot of possible trajectories, however, as I already stated more than once, the Umbers joining with the Boltons for any reason other than to betray them is not something I will even entertain unless it is either confirmed by this site, or I see it on the screen. I am not going to spend my time trying to think through something which doesn’t come from what I consider a particularly reputable source.
If, at some point, this site confirms the Umbers joining with the Boltons in any genuine way, then I will consider the whys. Until then, I will not. I’m not sure what part of that you aren’t understanding.
Kay,
Why would Sansa demand to be taken to Littlefinger?
dothrakian raven,
The last time Brienne saw Jaime he was in Kings Landing so why would she take her there? Also if I recall she knows her brother is in the wall….
Kay,
Then Sansa is the most stupid character! Seriously! Why would she prefer going with the man that betray her instead of going with her brother who is LC and would probably help her to find her little brother. And why would Brienne leave her there when she said (last season) that Sansa wasn’t safe with littlefinger
Edith,
I am not supporting this scenario at all. It is though something that has been discussed earlier because of the information that Brienne will have a violent fight and the fact apparently that she will be in RL by the end of the season. I do not think that LF and the Vale army will find Sansa as this has to happen very early in the season which is almost impossible and therefore the only chance for Sansa to meet LF is after the bastardbowl. So for my part the only option left is that Sansa and Theon will be found by Brienne and that she will escort Sansa to the Wall.
I don’t know if Sansa and Theon would really split up when they’re all alone in the Winter in the North, but how does Theon get to the Iron Islands then? Someone surely has to help him get there — where could he go that would help him?
1) If Sansa runs into Brienne and Pod, I mean that’s 2 people and they’d have to get Sansa to safety too
2) If it’s a Northern house (ie she goes looking for Rickon), they might not kill Theon right away, but they wouldn’t take so kindly to him. He’s the reason the Starks were removed from Winterfell, and even if Sansa knows he didn’t kill the boys and the Umbers know too, he still betrayed the Starks. Would they so kindly escort him back home? I think no.
3) They get to the Wall and somehow Jon is able to send him back to the Iron Islands. This might be the only thing that makes sense to me.
The other suggestion – Littlefinger – also makes no sense. He’s a schemer, CONSTANTLY. He would never give up Theon Greyjoy, even a beaten down and destroyed Theon.
Nadia,
IF, and that is an IF, Sansa and LF are at the battle towards the end of the season as spoilers indicate, then my thinking is that Sansa does want to go back to LF. As to WHY? Well, she did lie for him at the end of Season 4, and if that hadn’t happened yet, I would be asking, “Why would Sansa lie for Littlefinger”?
Edith,
Because Sansa may not know that LF “betrayed” her. She may think LF hoped the best for her.
Anyway….. whatever…… I am not that vested in what Sansa decides to do. Not one of the storylines I am waiting for with baited breath. Just trying to rationalize spoilers.
Nadia,
Good analysis!
dothrakian raven,
Yeah that’s what I thought too! but then I read the spoiler in wic and I know is not a reliable source but still…
Kay,
I get that but how she gets there? because I really don’t see Brienne taking her to littlefinger and leaving her there. First she doesn’t trust him and second he would probably try to kill her again.
Don’t forget the lands they have to get through between Winterfell and the Wall, some of which is
I don’t think the above is really a spoiler, but since it involves knowing the map, I figured I’d err on the side of caution.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Yeah, I think the strongest theory – which I’ve been saying – is that Jon and Sansa meet elsewhere. She probably thinks of getting to the Wall to get to Jon, and believes/knows that the Umbers are amongst the most loyal of the Stark bannermen and would probably not harm her if she somehow ran into them. Hell, she might set out that way directly to ask for shelter.
And Jon Snow is at this battle in full Stark clothing, not his Night’s Watch black. Stuff happens between the Wall and the battle, and he obviously goes elsewhere to rally the Northern houses.
Given the casting calls implied the kind of castle these Northern lords ruled is important enough to mention, it’s possibly because we’re going to see those places through Jon/Sansa.
No, but LF would happily give up this random Reek person. Remember, LF has no idea what Theon looks like in the first place.
But that isn’t obvious at all! Remember, Jon has a death sentence on him now: he’s a Night Watch deserter. So, how does Jon get Northern lords to not execute him? (And, again, the “I died, which released me from my vows: but then I got better!” story will not fly.)
The spoilers indicate that Sansa is there. We’ve had no indication that Littlefinger is there.
Here is the reason why Rickon’s death would not be a big deal (I am in the camp thinking he is definitely a goner in S6)
The last words Ned said to Jon in S1 was “You may not have my name, but you have my blood.”
Everyone is concerned that without Rickon, the Stark family name/line will end. Really? So what if the Stark name can no longer be passed on? We have seen that Blood is what matters, not the name or house.
Westeros is in a feudal society that appears to not be working, in the same respect to how feudalism did not work in European history. Look at all of the destruction and chaos it causes for innocent people when Houses decide to go to war with one another.
Even the words of Rhilor continually states the power of blood, king’s blood. Look at how Mel looks at Jon Snow, a boy with no name and a bastard child of Winterfell. It’s his blood that matters. The Stark blood will live on with Jon, Sansa and Arya but the name may die with Rickon but so what I say. Blood takes presedence over names, titles, houses, etc. Magic is taking over Westeros and neither the Red God nor the Others will really care about these trivial things. They will, however, take notice of family bloodlines and their is something about Stark blood and possibly Targaryan blood that makes them special or powerful.
Mark my words. Rickon’s eventual death will appear to be gut-wrenching to team Stark and will mainly be shown for the dramatic effect, but in the big picture of things it won’t matter too much.
Jon did not desert the Night’s Watch. His death ended his watch.
A pretty obvious and cheesy lampshade has hung there repeatedly.
And who will believe that he was resurrected? Or for this matter, who would believe his Targayen heritage? I will be seriously disappointed if he finds many supporters for any of these claims as it would go against anything that has been established about this world.
I think that fans forget that just because some of us expect every dead character to come back to life, nobody in Westeros (or elsewhere) expects any dead person to come back to life. And I think that we all forget that just because most of us accept that Jon is Rhaegar’s son that anyone else will readily accept that this is true.
We have to remember that Jon is known as Ned Stark’s bastard. And bastards are known to be people of very low morality. That is how Jon is and will be viewed.
If he did not desert, then why isn’t he still with them? If he is dead, then why is he standing there talking to people? After all, Jon is a bastard, and it is “known” that bastards are feckless liars.
Why is it “cheesy?” Moreover, this gun was not hung to be fired for the Northern Lords. The issue is: will Jon accept that this ended his obligations to the Night Watch? Jon might not accept that he truly died if he’s up and walking again. Of course, Jon also has been labelled a traitor and given a death sentence by other members of the watch. He’s probably going to wake up in a garbage heap, left for wolves to eat. So, he might well simply be on the lam at this point.
We don’t know yet whether he’s resurrected or he walked out of his funeral pyre unharmed.
If he’s resurrected, he’s not the first resurrected person to carry a cause and have people rally around him. Berric Dondarion has done that and he has the BwB behind him. Jon could have the Wildlings and some of the NW rally to his cause especially since he was betrayed by his own man.
I do agree that it won’t be easy to win over the Northern lords with the Wildlings behind. But it doesn’t mean he can’t. The show has established that Jon can be quite persuasive when he wants to be.
I disagree. Bastards are certainly treated as second class citizens but no one automatically thinks they’re immoral because they’re bastards. After all some Northerns lords and other nobles in Westeros do have bastards.
Love it when people act as if these are real people and there is no author behind it all making it all up.
Why would he get an honorable funeral pyre?
But only the BwB believes that Beric is revived from the dead. Other people scoff at the notion (even while wondering why he is not dead). The big issue is the Northern Lords: “loyalist” NW siding with Jon and not trying to kill Wildlings will be viewed as deserters and traitors.
That is stated many times in the books and once or twice on the show. Europeans believed this for years, and Westeros is very much modeled on Europe. After all, when people are born out of lust and passion rather than dutiful “I wish I was effin’ someone else” sex, immoral people are the result, right? (Seriously, that is what they believed….)
As Jon starts to lose the battle, Bran warps into Drogon who is probably roaming around aimlessly, then burns the entire Bolton army alive. Starks walk back to Winterfell and take over easily.
If you believe Bran will end up being a cheery fellow, you’ve been watching a different story than I am.. Bloodraven is a dubious fellow to be with and I doubt he’s wholly in it for the Realm.. The man’s got a few century old grievances.. for which he needs Bran to do the dirty work apparently..
Well, it is quite possible (and I would say probable) that Mel will revive him much more quickly than that.
The explanation is simple: Jon was a traitor who let a horde of Wildlings south of the Wall. Jon’s job as a member of the NW and particularly as LC of the NW is to keep Wildlings out of Westeros.
So, it would become known that Jon was deposed. What will become known is that the members tried to kill him, and thought that they did: but (somehow) Jon survived. And that means that Jon has a double death sentence on him. The tale that the “good” NW members stabbed Jon dozens of times and that they were sure he was dead will be dismissed as them making excuses for botching their duty (but praise for recognizing what it was).
Actually, they do not know Jon: they knew his presumed father. But the fact that Jon apparently conspired with Wildlings while a member of the Night’s Watch (and even after being chosen Lord Commander) would cement the idea that Jon was a duplicitous and dishonorable individual. There now are 100s and even 1000s of Wildlings south of the Wall because of Jon’s perfidiousness. That, of course, is unsurprising in a bastard.
Fienix,
No, it won’t be Theon. If you like reading spoilers then look into Theon’s filming.
Hey…I object to that remark. Bloodraven has his eye on you.
My best guess is Sansa and Theon will head to Deepwood Motte. It is currently held by either Northerns or the Iron Born, which works for Sansa/Theon.
Hell, maybe Lady Glover even has Rickon, and Robb’s will?
Fez,
What about Rickon & my girl OSHA?
Ser Oromis Locke,
I doubt Bran has any intention of the realm either other than his own self honestly. So far, he seems pretty selfish to me, although I didn’t read the books which may have said more than the show about his intentions. I did look into Bloodraven who has a…. unique past. I just though it is a funny twist that will probably never happen. But for the future of the show, it is pretty interesting that he (so far that I know of) is capable of warping into practically anything he wants. This could become a factor in future seasons when and if he ever makes it back over the wall with the dragons, who assumably will be roaming around freely.
I also don’t mind spoilers, so feel free to interpret the book about Bran if it differs from my opinion of him from watching the show. I have a couple friends who did read the books, and after a few drinks, oh they loved letting me know of the upcoming things to happen in the show. So Im over it now lol. Spoil away! haha.
Looper,
Well that is easy. The Riverlands are coming back into play. There will prob be a mention of the GreatJon from the Red Wedding at some point if the Umbers are in this season. The mention will be how the Umbers are staying loyal to Boltons because the GreatJon lives as long as they do. Maybe The Umbers do take Rickon to the Boltons to show their loyalty, they see the cruelty that Ramsay inflicts and decide to fully turn back to the good side! But I don’t see the Umbers doing that with Rickon. Nor do I see Rickon dying, yes Stark line can carry through Sansa, however, its just not the same. A boy needs to carry name.
If they burn Rickon I’m gonna be done with this show. 1 pointless child’s death by burning is enough fu*ked up, but 2, that’s just disgusting and real lack of imagination and directing skill sold for shock value. Enough they butchered Stannis and the Dornish plot in Season 5, but killing Rickon character simply for shock value without giving his character a chance to mature, that would be the end of the line for me
M,
Jon is the true heir to the throne anyway. Hes the son Of Neds sister Lyanna and The late King Robert Baratheon
I think it will be Blackfish and Edmure Tully.
Blood is blood, it’s shown in real life as in the books that bloodlines do also pass through the female line, the Starks were no different, maybe to make the blood stronger they marry cousins either 1st or 2nd but it does not seem to make much difference to the majority of northern lords, Stark blood is Stark blood.
Wimsey,
Except that they do. Alys Karstark certainly knows who he is and thinks he’s the sole surviving son of Eddard.
After reading this: Movie News Guide (MNG) caught up with Natalia Tena.
Tena also had some fond words for her character, saying that Osha was a strong fighter, good on her feet, and has a very strong centre—she’s firm but with a heart of gold. I’m quite looking forward to her inevitable return—she brought a wild-eyed steeliness to the show that was pretty captivating.
I think Osha is buying the farm : ( she’s talking in past tense here.
Could be one of the burn victims or just dead.
Newbietothegame,
I hope it´s Brienne, she´s the character I hate the most…just sorry for poor Pod…
Alright I have a small prediction, and real quick, since I don’t know how to SPOILER tag items, there might (although unlikely) be a book spoiler. If there is, I will say it now, just in case.
But back on track, alot of people here are saying “Rickon” and “Osha”. I wouldn’t rule out Osha, but she is really nothing to Jon or the Wildlings or the North. Except to Rickon and Bran. I agree with Howland Reed. And for a 2nd, maybe Greatjon Umber. This would really hold, if Howland came back, and got introduced to Jon, and told him of the Tower of Joy (flashback in hand).
But then Brans part on that would be unclear, however if Howland told Jon that he and Eddard were close friends, and that he was present at his mothers death, Howlands burning would intimidate Jon a great deal. Then, Greatjon Umber would make the entire North to back Jon and Co. up, because, well, he is Greatjon Umber. A respected warrior, and extreme Loyalist to the Starks, remember, he was the first to bend the knee to Robb and proclaim him King of the North.
I really hope however that it is not Tormund. It makes sense as well that it would be, to get under Jon and the Wildlings skin. But, you don’t mess with Tormund. Not only that, getting Tormund would only be possible, if he took Mances book place, and went to Winterfell, with maybe a female or two. But think about it, even though Ramsey is pretty bad ass in battle, especially with his “20 Good Men”, to capture Tormund for him would be amazing. Tormund is not going down without a fight, and he certainly would not be captured, as he would die fighting until his last breath.
And as for Wun Wun, yeah right. Try capturing a 15+ foot giant, and tying him to a 14 or so foot cross … Alive .. and see how well that goes lmao.
The one thing I have seen a few people write here, but not many, which would have a hardcore impact on both fans and the North, would be … Benjen Stark. This would entail that the burning of a kid (Rickon) would not need to happen. Plus, leave it to D&D/GRRM, to bring back the long awaited Benjen Stark, and have him burned as a form of intimidation to Jon, and a form of insulting him and Mel. As well as inslut the North, because even though he is a member of the NW, he is still a full blooded Stark. And it is even possible that is him and Howland Reed I suppose.
But again, I think it is possible that it may be Howland, and the once captive Greatjon Umber. If that is not the case, then possibly it may be Tormund and someone important to Mel, like Devos. Even if they don’t get along, they have been in eachothers company for quite some time, both advising Stannis and all. Which brings me to this. Even highly unlikely, Stannis, as some have stated here, is not “months” into decay. Even if this all takes place in E09, as alot of us speculate. Simply because, D&D said that S6, will take place directly after the events of S5. hence how Jon comes back, so Stannis is not rotted and decayed as mush as speculated.
Although, all is speculation, and all are entitled to their opinion. 🙂
miss,
Goodbye Osha. Goodbye Hodor.
Ramsay Bolton Killed his father and step mom, that’s what’s burning on the cross. He let Sansa slipped through the his fingers, step mom is pregnant, he decided to kill and take over.
well I am thinking in episode three the guy giving the gift to Ramsay is Small Jon Umber which would mean Rickon and which means yet another Stark dies. Payment for resurrecting Snow in essence
JohnDoe,
I am absolutely terrified that it will be Rikon and Osha.
Off-Topic Otto, That might actually make sense. I hope not. But there isn’t to many people left that I actually want to die.
its not Rickon, its been confirmed Rickon is not on the burning cross but it seems extremely likely that he is definitely going to die.. However, it could be Osha, or Roose or Walda on the crosses… only 2 more days and we will know!