The actors of Game of Thrones have come together to remind us that there’s still time to win a trip to the Game of Thrones set (and help combat AIDS in doing so). Dothraki creator, David J. Peterson, is appearing on Face Off this week, and Kit Harington continues to try to convince us he won’t be in season 6.
Support House @RED. Donate today for a chance to visit the set of #GoT in Belfast. Enter: https://t.co/AWMjbldPKY https://t.co/lTnGXN05jX
— Game Of Thrones (@GameOfThrones) January 26, 2016
Liam Cunningham, Finn Jones, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, Ellie Kendrick, Jessica Henwick and Conleth Hill filmed a video for (Red), an organization that works to prevent the transmission of HIV from mother to child, to remind viewers that there’s a little over a week left to enter to win a tour of the Game of Thrones set in Belfast, meet the cast, watch next season’s filming and, if you so choose, sit on the Iron Throne.
The actors promise to disclose earth shattering secrets during the tour such as what Bran and Meera were up to all last season (Kendrick’s presence in the video implicitly confirms her character’s return) and how to get Dornish sand out of your shoes. Best of all, Liam Cunningham offers to show the winner how to smuggle real wine onto the set *maniacal laugh.*
David J. Peterson is guest starring on an episode of Face Off, airing tonight at 10 p.m. ET/PT on Syfy . In the show, competitors have to create a member of a fictional race based on a series of artifacts and a language Peterson has created. During the show, Peterson explains his process for creating languages.
“The very first thing that I have to do is figure out who is going to be speaking this language,” he says. “Once I get a really good idea of who the people are, then I begin the long process of fleshing out the lexicon, which can have anywhere from 2000 to 5000 to 6000 words.”
During an interview on UK’s BBC Breakfast to promote his play, Doctor Faustus, Kit Harington was asked about about reports (*tips hat*) that he was spotted filming for Game of Thrones season 6.
“I think anyone who wants to know what happens in season 6 has to wait until it comes out,” Harington said before reaffirming once more that Jon Snow is dead. Then he added, “It’s going to be a very exciting season … so I’m led to believe.”
“You’ve been very well trained in that response, haven’t you?” the hosts replied.
Thanks to our reader, Conor, for submitting the Kit Harington interview.
Hodor!
I’d like to see a blooper reel of what happens after prodigiously indulging in said contraband real wine while filming…
I bet that would be fun to watch.
A confirmation of Meera, yay! Not just that but Ellie Kendrick has been consistently excellent, very underrated, glad to see her back.
I assumed it was a given, but with so long without news (especially since so many others were confirmed to return – even unexpected ones) I was beginning to get (irrationally) worried.
I’m glad that all the surviving Starks and their associates are back this season, I think Bran’s absence did impact the show a bit (much as others would like to say otherwise).
Does he think that the fans are complete idiots who will see pics of him filming on set and buy that he’s ‘dead’ and not going to return to the show? I mean maybe he died and will come back to life or whatever but he’s been spotted filming. And its getting annoying and insulting that he keeps trying to convince us that he’s never coming back. Grrr. Its like someone who tries to convince you that navy blue is black.
I think that interview was done a BBC morning show for breakfast and not Live With Kelly and Michael?! I don’t care that he is saying Jon Snow is dead because he is dead, at least as we knew him! But when he says he has just been ” laying low” and taking it easy and not doing much since he filmed Jon Snow’s death, I get a little bit mad about that! He was photographed on the set and in Belfast, so that IS a lie! Don’t say that if it is going to be lying! He should just leave it at Jon Snow is dead! But I am not the one under pressure in these interviews and from HBO, so It is probably really hard to think straight when someone asks! I wish Kit much success with his new play! Wish I could see it!
When did he say he wouldn’t return to the show?
Well, no, actually it’s, “You know nothing, Bill Turnbull.” Or it is now.
Alikat,
He is almost definitely legally obliged to keep spewing out that answer, he doesn’t have a choice. He could get in pretty hefty trouble with HBO otherwise, he knows it’s leaked (and a lot of the casual fans ARE still convinced he’s dead, they’d be very spoiled if he just came out with it) and likely he’s frustrated that he keeps being asked when the interviewers know full well he’s contractually not allowed to answer.
It’s so funny how upset people get about this… he’s just saying what’s he’s paid to say.
More Meera!
Nice to see the cast incentivizing people to contribute to a good cause.
Alikat,
Kit is not trying to convince us that he’s not coming back – at least not in this interview. Kit said that Jon Snow is dead. And he is. But Kit deliberately avoided directly answering any questions of his coming back, which is exactly as it should be.
Now, Kit did lie once right after Season 5 finished airing when he said that he wouldn’t be filming Season 6, but I think he only told that lie once. I was disappointed in the lie, but I’m glad to see he hasn’t kept that up.
Alikat,
While talking to my show-only neighbor he said, “Maybe they are just showing him in somebody’s memory or something. You never know. They said he’s dead. HE said he’s dead. I think he’s dead.”
What could I say? I guess he COULD be dead. I don’t think so but so many people believe the interview answers that it makes sense for them to give those answers.
He could give a non-answer kind of answer like most of the cast has been doing. Like ‘well everyone saw him get stabbed last season….I would think he was dead, wouldn’t you?’ then change the subject.
It would drive me insane to have to lie or be that evasive in every interview. Ugh. Hope he’s getting paid enough to make it worthwhile!
I agree but the problem with things like this though, is that he isn’t usually just asked if Jon is dead. They usually push for more ala – will you be filming anything for S6? Have you been on set? Why have you been on set? What have you been doing since? etc etc.
And while I’d prefer it of he didn’t outright lie and just hedged/omitted, that doesn’t really work when interviewers start being specific and he can’t answer truthfully then. Which is honestly a dick move for the interviewers – they know he can’t answer otherwise, they know he’d get in trouble if he did etc, but they still push anyway.
FILMING SPOILERS MUST BE COVERED!
Kit is probably anxious for the resurrection scene to get out of the way already, poor guy
Oh and good to see Ellie again, she’s great.
The real question is whether Bran’s training montages would have made good television and/or whether it would have effectively fed the Kill the Boy story. My suspicion is that it would not have done either. Skipping ahead to Bran’s “Inceptiony” stuff would not have worked, either: presumably GRRM wrote that with the Winter story in mind, and it’s very possible that some of the big Mysteries are going to be answered there.
Jon will not be dead as we knew him. Oh, he’ll be changed from this: but, then, Daeny will be changed from the assassination attempt on her and the ensuing detour with the Dothraki; Arya will be changed by her blindness; Bran will be changed by his apotheosis; Sansa will be changed by her experiences with Ramsay.
And that is very important: story comes from how main characters evolve (or don’t evolve) in response to some identity crisis. However, the key is that the characters have to evolve: Season 6 Jon (Daeny/Tyrion/Arya/Bran/Sansa) has to be Season 5 Jon (Daeny/Tyrion/Arya/Bran/Sansa) modified.
Remember, if Jon is revived quickly, then he won’t be all that different from the revival. What is going to really change him is the recognition that people will not always care that you are doing the “right” thing when old, old grudges are involved.
jentario,
Yeah, I would find it very stressful. I imagine he’s already (or will soon) do a bunch of advance interviews that will be published as soon as his return episode airs (I hope for him it’s an early one).
Jesus Christ people are to bloody Sensitive, Leave Kit and Hbo alone.
1 some people really believe he’s dead, well the people who only tune in every year and don’t try to look up spoilers.
2 I believe he’s under contract not to say anything, and even if he did he would be in massive trouble which I wouldn’t want. hopefully we aren’t being tricked 😉 and good old jonny boy shows up in some shape or form lol
But he really is dead, so why not just say that? The Season 6 poster says it all, http://www.hbo.com/custom-assets/img/series/game-of-thrones/season-6-tease.jpg. There Jon Snow is, the deliberate image of Christ on the cross. He is dead. He is buried. And on the third day, He rises again to save us all. Dead. And alive.
Kit is not talking to the “fans”: he is talking to Joe and Jane TV viewer, and the vast majority of the show’s viewers have not seen these pix. Yes, thousands and even 10’s of thousands of people look at sites like this: but millions of people watch the show. Look at it this way: of the X programs you watch, for how many do you follow reports between seasons? And that probably is 1 more than most people.
I.e., the vast majority of the viewers!
Yes, I’ve gone back and forth myself about this. Everyone loved the created S3 dreams (with Jon/Robb and Cat), but there’s only a certain amount of those that can be done before it wears thin, and to have them more intrinsic to the story might give away too much too soon. Likewise only having three or four Bran scenes might have been even more jarring than none at all.
The problem is Jon and Bran both had to be in the same place by 309, which sped up Bran’s arc, and we couldn’t exactly just have him meandering beyond the wall for two seasons before he got to the cave. And we can’t have him in the cave for a whole season without getting early reveals, so I do sympathize with D&D there. But it did have an impact all the same.
Your identity crisis comment is one I agree with. GRRM did not develop Jon for so long to have him turn into a completely different person. Those six will essentially have their characters cracked open and have to pick up the pieces – yes overall they will be different, but they will still be made of the same stuff.
Wimsey,
It’s not to perfectly fit whatever theme you think the filmmakers were pushing. They’re more sophisticated than that, I think. I’m sure the real reason comes down to not wanting to eat time up with low-level training, as most are speculating. Save it for when the big reveals can come.
It is tiresome, Kit’s continued insistence on his technically true but purposely misleading response. But then again the problem is really that so often when he does so, it’s reported here. So we see all these responses funneled in repetition. I expect for most casual fans they hear his insistence just once, as he appears randomly on some show that they sometimes watch. So it probably just seems more aggravating to all of us who come here.
Bran: melding his head with the trees to see the stars and enlightenment….
Meera: banging her head on trees and seeing stars out of sheer boredom….
I dont think he told any lies.
“Jon Snow” is dead.
“Jon Snow</strong"
If he comes back (yes if lol) pretty sure his last name will not be Snow any longer….
I doubt that the casual fans hear it even once! I rarely read anything about other TV shows because I do not go out of my way to do so: and you really do have to go out of your way to learn about these things.
Story, not theme. And they would be less sophisticated, not more, if they were not making decisions it with story in mind: that is the point of this exercise!
Shawn,
He can still be Jon Snow. However, he was basically dying and about to expire when last we saw him. Until Melisandre revives him, Jon Snow is dead. So, basically “Jon Snow is Dead” is a true statement now, and will remain so until late April at the earliest. (My bet is that Mel will revive him at the culmination of the first episode; still, I suppose it might be at the outset, as that could be a good season-opening gag, and for all we know it will set up the story in the same way that Cersei’s flashback set up last season’s story.)
I havent read any of the filming spoilers, but spotted on set can mean to film the corpse scene or a flashback. it really doesn’t mean much.
I am worried from that perspective because he keeps denying it. Yes he is paid to do so if he is in fact coming back.
Its sooo confusing now. From a story perspective, he has to come back.
But you never know with GRRM. lol.
He is right though. We will just have to wait and see.
Gee golly. “Characters are going to have events that happen to them and as a result those characters are going to change and develop and that’s what makes stories interesting.”
Oh MY GOD. I am SHOCKED. SHOCKED at this. I have never heard of such a thing happening in fiction ever.
Alikat,
Jon is dead though, but he is brought back. SO technically Kit isn’t playing with fans. He’s simply stating that Jon is at this moment dead.
Apologies, I am in a foul mood and I should not read quotes in posts, apparently.
On the other hand, are we really still caring that the actors are saying Jon Snow is dead? I’d care more if they said something different. At this point, they are all spouting the party line and good for them for doing their damn jobs, which is to keep the secret.
I don’t have a ton of pity for actors, “poor me, I was only able to borrow this perfectly fitted D&G tux to go to this fabulous party and here you are asking me a question that I find silly, my life is so hard,” but if I had to put up with the “Is Jon Snow dead?” thing in every interview, I’d want to put my head through a wall.
I do get immensely frustrated with people that insist that it’s bad writing to bring him back.
They’re conflating it with ‘character temporarily killed off for shock value’, which is a cheap but occasionally effective trick.
While YES, it was a cliffhanger, Jon’s death will continue to develop him after he is revived AND it is likely a driving plot point. GRRM didn’t have him stabbed for no reason/gasps, there are clear specific narrative reasons behind Jon’s death and rebirth.
‘But it’s GOT, anyone can die’ – I understand where you are coming from, and though it feels like some characters were killed before their time, the major ones have clear character arcs and a specific journey, their deaths make sense. And often they had to die and stay dead for the plot to continue (and the minor characters deaths feed into the overall plot and individual character arcs). Jon also has to die for plot & character reasons, but those same reasons are the reasons why he will not stay dead. He’s been killed before the culmination of his arc, and him staying dead does not actually do much in terms of plot development. Ned, Cat and Robb etc had more impact on the major plot so far than Jon/Dany/Tyrion/Arya/Sansa/Bran, because their part has yet to come. While they have done some massive actions (Jon’s LC, Dany’s Rebellions, Tyrion’s time as hand, Arya’s kills, Sansa’s involvement with PW, Bran’s dreams), those actions are relatively small in the grand scheme of things, and are more about getting their character to a certain place to do the things they need to do (plus trying to get readers/viewers invested in these characters).
Yeah, I’m highly interested in Meera’s role in S6/TWoW as well. I don’t believe weirnet central will be a safe zone at all, especially given the possible agendas of the various “magical” denizens of the north.
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger.
It’s nice to have Kendrick’s involvement more or less confirmed, even if that was always the only logical conclusion (if the show was done with that character she would have died alongside Jojen).
Kit said: “All I can tell you is Jon SNOW is dead. He died at the end of the last season” He’s right… SNOW is dead, but Jon Stark… Wrong question again…
Anecdote of an extra (S6) (sorry can’t say his name)
“I worked with Kit and he was wonderful. He was laughing and joking with us (extras) even though he didn’t have to talk us at all. When we were all done weeks later he gave me an autograph. He’s so cool”
Can’t wait for the new Jon, can’t wait for season 6!!
GeekFurious,
he did say he would not be in season 6. I don’t remember where he said it but I’m pretty sure I read about it on this site shortly after season 5 ended
Deesensfan,
The scene that he was filming when he was spotted on set, its not possible for it to be a flashback.
I wouldn’t be afraid about Jon not returning. Let’s summarize:
– We know that he was filming about three weeks in Saintfield a huge battle scene (and we have a pic of him in a Stark armor).
– We know about a scene in Winterfell’s courtyard featuring him, Sansa, Littlefinger, Ramsay and Wun Wun.
– We know that he has a scene trying to convince the wildlings to fight for him.
Besides, we have a couple of, let’s call it, circumstancial evidence. First, the first poster of Season 6 with Jon in it. Hardly ever on the history of TV a show has promoted his upcoming season featuring the image of a dead character. Second, the fact that we are having the Tower of Joy flashback this season. If Jon is dead-dead, what’s the point of knowing his true origin now?
Case closed.
Here you go:
http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview?hootPostID=ce77e7a93ae80f94827bd2b809939bba
Khal Daniel,
http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview
Wylie,
🙂 you beat me
ghost of winterfell,
Well I don’t know the details and would rather keep it that way
But maybe its a dream? or vision? LOL You never know!!!
I pray that you are all correct and that Kit is lying.
Only time will tell. 88 days? or more? God knows when they will address this
Davos’ Luck,
Thanks for putting my mind at ease.
Deesensfan,
hehe, ninja’d 🙂
Wylie,
big time 😉
Deesensfan,
Yeah I know, that’s why I did not give any details ! The death should be addressed in the first couple of episodes itself, I think.
ghost of winterfell,
ohhhhhh ghost, I hope youre right
*sigh*
Alikat,
It’s important to remember that the majority of viewers likely aren’t as aware of these sightings as we are. For instance, if I talk about the show with anyone at work, I am careful not to mention them because most people I have encountered don’t scour the Internet looking for clues.
Sure, there are plenty of people who have likely seen the reports and immediately dismissed them; some say it’s a dream or a flashback (neither makes any sense), others say it was a prank by the producers (possible, but doubtful).
Besides, it’s not like Kit himself really has a choice in the matter. If he’s under contract and told to hold his tongue, then that’s what he does. I’m sure he’s tired of being asked every time he makes an appearance.
Here’s a thought:
What if David, Dan and Kit are just trolling us all by bringing him in for filming to make us believe he’s coming back when infact he is dead.
I myself do not think that is likely but it’s a possibility, no?
Also – any further word on if Rory McCann and whether they’ll be bringing back The Hound? I heard one rumour that he was spotted in a Belfast hotel at the time of filming but no pictures (mind you, if he asked you not to take pictures….would you argue?)
Wimsey,
I know so many people who watch the show on Sunday evenings, enjoy it for the entertainment it provides and then move on. They saw Jon Snow die and that’s it. They see it more as a surprise ending than a cliffhanger.
So, aside from the contractual obligations for silence, if they were to admit, “Oh, yes. You found us out. Jon is back in S6”, they would actually be spoiling the story for a vast amount of viewers.
And I know that it is the price you pay as a successful actor, but how tiring to be asked the same question over and over, everywhere you go and by everyone you talk to!! I’d pull my hair out – unless I was contractually obligated not to. 🙂
He is dead but (shouting loudly ) “he will come back to life “
Kev,
But it was a little vague–the “he” won’t be filming could mean Kit saying as Jon Snow he won’t be filming…hence Jon Stark or some other name.
Jon Snow never filmed. They didn’t have film back in those days.
“It’s going to be a very exciting season … so I’m led to believe.”
This guy.
Anyway, I’m glad to see Ellie Kendrick is (probably) returning. I just hope Meera doesn’t end up in a bowl of paste in place of her brother, or otherwise dies as part of some profane ritual. That whole theory disturbs me and I hope it isn’t true in any capacity…
…but it probably is. :S
Someone needs to ask Rory McCann a series of question..
– Me: “Is Jon Snow dead?”
– Rory: “Of course he is.. we saw him get stabbed and bleed”
– Me: “Is Sandor dead?”
– Rory: “Last we saw him, he was dieing..”
– Me: “You can’t be as definite about it?”
– Rory: “?”
– Me: “Can you tell me whether Sandor is dead, just like you did about Jon Snow”
– Rory: “Last we saw him, he was dieing…”
– Me: “So you can’t say: “Sandor is dead”?
– Rory: “Last we saw him, he wa…”
– Me: “Okay, let me cut in here.. Have you been to Spain?”
– Rory: “Yes, I really liked Inverness..”
– Me: “Inverness isn’t in Spain”
– Rory: “Nope.. it isn’t..”
Big Al,
Oh, I sure hope so! Love The Hound!
Ginevra,
Sure they did–there wasn’t much bathing then.
After his resurrection Jon still will be Snow. He became Stark maybe if when he takes Winterfell, but not before. But i don’t believe in that he ever became Stark. Some day, when Howland Reed decides to find Jon. He will be a Targaryen. But never Stark.
I am wearing red undies today
I think that we’ll see her writing “All Work and No Play Makes Meera a Dull Girl” over and over on leaves. 8)
That’s life in the entertainment industry. If you are successful musician and you have a new album, then you do the same interview over and over. If you are a successful author and you have a new book, then you do the same interview over and over. Established entertainers often joke that they know the questions before they get them. Politicians get asked the same questions over and over, at least over short periods of time. The few times that I’ve been interviewed about my research, it was the same questions over and over.
(I remember an interview that John Lennon did with himself, where he grilled himself on whether the Beatles were getting back together, whether Yoko broke up the Beatles, whether this song or that song was about drugs or Nixon or whatever. It was pretty damn funny: not so much for the questions, but for the “Nobody’s ever asked me that!” and “That’s a really insightful question” openings to his responses.)
heh, many fantasy fans seem shocked to learn this! Come to that, a lot of fantasy authors would be, too!
caliopesnow,
Wow!!!!!! Confirmation!!! Sounds like he will be Jon Stark!!! What fans of this site have suspected!! Glad to hear he was so good to the extras!
Rygar,
I’m glad to hear that, no evil eye will be able to do magic on you!
Robb Snow,
If that paste thing turns out to be real,which it probably will,that will be a really lame twist just for shock value . It was one thing with the Frey pies but to pull the same trick twice in the same book as well just goes to show the continue degrading in quality of Martin’s work .
Well, she has enough snow… and loneliness… but no bathroom door to break with an axe.
Deesensfan,
Be positive. 😉
Tecnically he didn’t, because what he said at the time was that he had been told that he was not coming back for season 6.
r-hard,
Well i want him to embrace his Stark blood more which would make the most sense considering he grew up wanting to be a Stark,if he randomly decides to be a Targaryen just because he finds out the truth about his parentage it will be a really weird decision by Martin but as i said considering the low quality of the books now nothing will surprise me anymore .
Okay, so an interview would basically go like: “Okay Kit, lets talk Game of Thrones.”, “Yeah, okay, Jon Snow hasn’t seen action in a long while though”, “Yeah, you think he still misses Ygritte?” (laughs). “Okay, so we’ve heard you say that Jon Snow is dead (dramatic pause)”, “Yeah, he’s dead, I liked seeing the reactions after episode 10 of season 5, but oh well, I’ve got this play in London coming up, so new things.”, “But what about Jon Stark? Jon Targaryen?”, “I don’t know what you are talking about..”, “What about your mother?”, “She’s at home, she’s very proud.”, “No, I mean Jon’s mother. You think we have a chance of seeing her in the show?”, “Uhh.. Who knows?”, Well.. You know nothing I’d wager?” (both laugh).
If Jojen-Paste isn’t true, that still leaves us with a lot of evidence that Bran has eaten at least some human-flesh. Coldhands brings “pork” after just having dealt with some Night’s Watch deserters. Very, very odd..
I guess we are using the same argument for Jon. Saying Jon Snow is dead would likely be true, similar to the Hound having died, but Sandor having risen in a new identity/refound/born way.
GeekFurious,
Right – always a lot of word trickery going on but we just have to wait to discover the outcome…
r-hard,
He can be both Stark and Targaryen. What about Starkgaryen or StarTarg?
Jokes aside, it would be lame for him all of sudden to decide like that just because he finds out about his parents. There’s got to be a very good reason for him to take their surname.
Sullied by Knight,
good one, lol.
Shy Lady Dragon,
Too bad: I bet that she would be very good at breaking down doors with axes. Heh, maybe Hodors Bastard has a near-miss going: maybe Meera will take out all of the Weirwood trees in a fit of isolation-induced lunacy! 😀
Also, changing your surname is not tantamount to killing your old self. It used to be common for women to change their names when they got married: but nobody ever said that Betty Hofstadt died and Betty Draper was born.
Hahaha…I’d like it even better, though, if after being asked, “Have you ever been to Spain,” he broke into a rousing rendition of Three Dog Night’s “Never Been to Spain.” 🙂
Kit said, “I’m not coming back next season.” http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview
For the record, there is no way that he would have been told otherwise on the chance that Kit could have booked a different gig during filming.
Ginevra,
…and he had given that interview where he said he’d be with GoT into his 30’s.
Hah! She will indeed be going a bit stir-crazy since she cannot keep herself busy playing mind games like Hodor can. 🙂 I’m sure the CotF and her will have plenty to discuss, and they may even show her the entire network of tunnels at weirnet central, which surely will have another secret exit….where she and CH can meetup and go have some adventures.
Although, when BR reveals Meera as Jon’s twin with the ToJ vision, things may change for her significantly… 🙂
As far as I now the actors, including Kit Harington, do not face these questions only when they are in their D&G tuxes at this fabulous parties and red carpet events. They face it everyday, when they go to the coffee shop, a pub, a casual restaurant, when they walk down the street, on vacation, at the supermarket, the bus, the underground, etc., etc. (yeah, many of them, including Kit, still move around London in buses and trains).
So, basically, for the last 7 months everywere Kit goes, people have been following him around, taking pictures without permision, checking the length of his hair, asking him directly if his character is dead or alive, and if he will be going back to the set for season 6, or, like with this interviewer, that he had been seen at the set. And he has had to say a million times, “wait and see”, “Jon’s dead”, etc. I surely hope he gets well paid for the massive invasion of privacy he has been subjected as a result of last seasons’ cliffhanger.
Rygar,
Okay…and? Lol.
Turri,
Mind went straight into the gutter while reading that quote 🙂
OMG, you guys, our cast is still so adorable… I love them. And I include Jessica 100% in this – I’m so sorry they screwed up your story!
I’m digging Finn’s beard btw. I hope Loras is sporting one next season!
GhostCR,
Just imagine how many times someone has told him “You know nothing, Jon Snow!”
Meera seems a strong psychologically person and adaptable to new situations. I think she coped very well with all of this. She must have made new friends with the COTF and spent hours talking to them, telling and listening to stories. Also I hope she has tidied that cave, which was a mess,
Suggesting that she do that is probably when Meera got the axe out.
Yeah, I’ll bet that Scrabble with Hodor is just a blast.
Geralt of Rivia,
It’s hard. But I am trying 🙂
I’m really happy Meera is probably back. Bran’s storyline only with flashbacks would be so boring.
When the Hound was left to die, I felt bad for him, but I always wonder why do people like the Hound so much? Hes a horrible person. (I don’t mind him – his soft spot for the Stark girls made me like him a little)?
I must say I’m amazed sometimes at just how much thought many of you put in to even minor characters and details. I dont have that kind of focus. At least not for fiction. Some would probably do well at writing stories. Wonder if we have any aspiring authors.
I have a question, random.
does anyone on the Iron islands have a Valryrian Steel blade ?
Matthew The Dragon knight,
The awoiaf-wiki says two swords: Nightfall of House Harlaw and Red Rain stolen by House Drumm.
Tyrion the Myrion,
Sadly, there’s a convincing case to be made for it, and I do believe that the paste at least contains some of his blood if nothing else.
Here’s a comprehensive vid about the theory if anyone wants to check it out (book spoilers ahoy!)
https://youtu.be/EhtbVpc8E70
It’s true that blood magic and human sacrifice are a consistent element of magic in ASoIaF, so it wouldn’t be too out of keeping for the theory to be true. I agree though that it’s really obscene and reeks of “shock and awe” more than anything.
Either way, it’s raised my suspicions that
is not really a force for good after all. There’s something very wrong with that entire picture and I fear that Bran could be in trouble.
Interesting, I hope we see some minor houses from the iron islands lol or maybe next season lol XD
GhostCR,
I think the big players on the show are probably paid a pretty handsome sum of money 🙂 Granted, that doesnt always negate the hassle of being hassled every time you walk out the door. Some people might enjoy the fame and attention. Other more private individuals would wonder if its worth it. Seems like this actor in particular is getting more comfortable with it. He has made comment in the past regarding all actors being narcissists to some degree so I think he likes the attention but was just a bit embarrassed by it in the beginning.
Deesensfan,
Besides Rory McCann being handsome? I’m only half kidding. I don’t think anyone loved the Hound when he killed the butcher’s son (Micah), as nobody loved Jaime when he threw Bran out of the window. But, while time was passing and details were accumulating, people discovered the tender side of both characters and their tormented souls. Imo these are the most attractive for fans 😉 Remember all the little things the Hound, still Joffrey’s bodyguard, made to appease Sansa’s suffering? And the wonderful relationship he had with Arya? After all his loneliness and horrifying memories, he still could care and protect. And Arya loved him to – Jaqen (or whoever was wearing his face) hit Arya with the stick when she said she hated the Hound, meaning she was lying.
Don’t pay any mind to whatever those actors are paid to say. We’ve seen the photo evidence and read all the set reports from reliable sources (this site, los siete reinos) as well as a few comments from Martin himself, which clearly indicated that (at least) show!Jon’s not done. Besides, claiming Jon’s dead is not a lie because at the moment he is, it’s the part of him not staying dead that’s constantly being purposefully avoided in those interviews. It’s common knowledge death isn’t always permanent in GOT universe, so this is a half-assed attempt at a twist. A twist that’s seen coming a mile away. Can’t wait until this silly cat and mouse game ends.
I know you are keen on avoiding spoilers (I don’t know how you can do this or why, but it’s none of my business), so this can’t be a spoiler. How could it be, I have no classified intel?!
I’m sure Jon will come back, so don’t worry. The story demands him to come back.
Shy Lady Dragon,
Thats why i could not understand when Arya looks at him coldly and leaves him to suffer. I thought she had developed some positive feelings for him as well.
Ygritte,
Maybe my explanation is fit for a stupid romantic girl, but I think she was lying to herself about the reason of not killing him, i. e. she simply didn’t want him dead. She looked at him coldly because she wanted to be tough, maybe she even believed she was.
Of course he doesn’t. But he can’t spoil season 6 in an interview. I actually feel for him, because he has to keep up the ruse until his character comes back on the show. I think it’s disingenuous of the interviewers to bring up something like that because there are lots of people who would like to not be spoiled on something so big for season 6, on top of the fact that they are just hoping he says something by mistake. So don’t blame Kit for this, it’s the situation he’s in until everything is revealed on the show.
Whenever they say Jon snow is dead you have to keep in mind that it’s true.. his physical body is dead just as Beric Dondarrion has been dead, several times.. So it’s quite clear in the GOT world that dead doesn’t necessarily mean permanently dead =)
Besides, with all of the set photos, anyone would / should know better.
I think we love him because he’s both horrible and good. Like Jaime, he started off the tale with one horrible deed, but since then, GRRM has launched him along a path of growth and redemption. We found him vulnerable when he revealed how his big (big, big, big!) brother burned off half his face and an ear away in a fire that time when Baby!Hound, at six or seven, had the audacity to play with one of the Mountain’s toys. We found him vulnerable in the way he opened himself up to Sansa, begging her to go with him as he flees King’s Landing.
We found him heroic when he was the only one who would defend the defenseless, risking his life to retrieve Sansa in the riots. We found him vulnerable and honest when he confessed to Arya and the Brotherhood that he killed the butcher’s boy and witnessed all of the Joffrey horrors in King’s Landing, knowing they could kill him for that. We bonded with him when he and Arya fought together. We wanted to cheer for him when he said, “Fuck the king!”
So the Hound is our quintessential antihero. And we love him.
Actors in his situation are under contract on what they can and cannot say.. confidentiality agreements. They are often allowed to say certain things, or frame things in a vague way.. Kit Harrington isn’t lying… Jon Snow IS dead.. at least until he’s resurrected. He knows that many fans have seen the set photos and all of that, but he’s not allowed to acknowledge that fact… and for good reason.. the vast majority of the fans don’t like to have things spoiled..
Even if the next season leaked in it’s entirety on the net, they would still say that Jon is dead.. and that’s because it’s not a lie, and it doesn’t spoil the resurrection we know is coming.
Shy Lady Dragon,
Shy Lady Dragon,
Thank you to both your answers. I know what you mean regarding the hound. Its just funny. I liked Stannis till he killed his daughter, even though eh was murdering innocents with the red woman
As for Jon, oh Shy Lady, its been hard. Im not the spoiler reading type. And seeing the comment in the article that he was spotted on set (that’s all I know and all I want to know) is a spoiler but not really, as who knows what was happening or his purpose there. I am worried, and I hope youre right, as I agree, the story does demand his return, with a full functioning brain lol
Ygritte,
It was heavily implied that she ended up liking the Hound whilst the truth-or-else-beatings-with-a-stick game with Jaqen in the House of Black and White in S5. So I too think that she could not bring herself to kill him at this point and that may very well turn out to be a crucial decision in the future.
Edit: Ok, someone mentioned that already. Should have read the whole conversation 🙂
Shy Lady Dragon,
We both made a lot of the same connections: Jaime, Micah, Sansa, Arya. I should have refreshed before posting.
Ginevra,
very nicely said 🙂
thank you!
Ginevra,
I’m happy you didn’t refresh. I really enjoyed what you wrote about the Hound, “our quintessential antihero”, and I’m glad you also belong to the Hound Sisterhood.
HotPinkLipstick,
This gave me the lulz.
Ginevra,
Absolutely agree with you! 🙂 Nice post!
Poopie! Broken record.
Everybody talk about Red instead and how much money the awesome GoT community will raise to prevent little kids from being born sick!
I donated… everybody you donate too!
What would you do on set? What cute things do you think Nikolaj was “spoiling”?
I want to hear Laim and Conleth talk to one another in character a conspiratorial fashion. Because that would be cool….
Lord, a couple of posters here need to netflix and chill (er, by which I mean *actually* watch netflix and chill; if you end up doing something else, congrats). Kit is doing exactly what he’s told and is contractually required to do. These complaints are as ridiculous as the guy who said Harington was “done with the show” because he went on holiday to Brazil, FFS.
On a less grumpy note, it’s great to see the actors supporting a good cause.
Robb Snow,
I would not look for any forces of “good”: just forces for one side or another or a third or a fourth. There are, however, rare individuals (like the Big 5) who will take the time too look at both sides of a conflict, and who will think “what is it like to walk in Side X’s shoes?” I am betting that, before it’s all said and done, most of us will have some sympathy for all of the sides involved.
As Bender the Robot said, “Celebrities like to look like they care.”
😀
Saw some photos of Nikolaj Coster-Waldau from the GQ France Men of the Year Awards and it looks like he’s growing a beard again, not just the stubble. It’s a little soon to be linking it to GoT S7 filming, but it’s more interesting than the Jon Snow question.
I think it should be written into their contracts that anyone connected with the show who says “Jon Snow is dead” should be legally obligated to add a Monty Pythonesque “Know what I mean? Wink wink nudge nudge, say no more.”
HotPinkLipstick,
Sorry to hear you’re in a foul mood, but thank you for the laugh. 🙂
As far as Kit goes, as many others have said, he is simply sticking to the terms of his contract.
Lyanna_Targaryen,
I aim to please…or really just aimed a letter opener at people today. I think it is an unofficial office rule, do not mess with the Lipstick if she’d fiddling with her letter opener. It’s like the bad mood sign.
😉
Looking at photos of NCW and his stunning wife made things a little better. Damn those are some pretty people.
I have 250 chances to win a trip to Ireland next year, do you? It is a great cause. Go and donate today!! One week left!!
On another note:
I think that the Hound/Sansa/Arya is more like a Beauty and the Beast sort of shipping. But for me personally? While he did show some kindness to both, I can NEVER see them together. Never.
Also I agree with some here that Arya walked away because she just couldn’t do it…the mercy killing, which is exactly what she ended up doing or would have done for the FM in Braavos. Odd, no?
I looked it up on line and if correct, Kit Harington makes about 3 million a season. So to me they do pay him enough not to jeopardize his contract.
HotPinkLipstick,
Any NCW links, pretty please?
caliopesnow,
I know a guy who knows a guy, who said they knew a guy, who said Jon and Sandor will enter a relationship and take legal guardianship of Arya. I can’t say who these guys are, but you can trust me, I’m a person on the Internet!
I don’t necessarily think you’re lying, bit unsubstantiated sources on the internet are pretty meaningless.
I have 1000 chances…. PaaaaaaLEEEEESE let me win. Gosh I feel like Im playing the mega million dollar lottery again because I am sure hundreds of thousands are going to donate… which will make the odds of winning like a billion to 1. But I know its for a good cause. I would also like to hear the WoTW community speak up on how much they are participating in the cause!!! Come on GoT fans… donate!!
I want Nikolaj to give me a piggy back ride… or The hound… he’s pretty hot if you ask me.. those eyes!!!!
JCDavis,
I don’t expect any Sansa-Hound shipping, although it was clearly not only kindness, but also attraction on his side. And if I have to compare the Arya-Hound connection with something, it reminds me of strong, sincere partnerships in detective films/ series (when the 2 opposite gender detectives DON’T finally sleep with each other).
Talking about ships, I would be surprisingly happy if Bran and Meera have some sort of romantic interaction. I’m sure they had enough time to talk and bond.
Shy Lady Dragon,
The video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6VHtVUugt0
The beautiful couple.
http://cdn02.cdn.justjared.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/waldau-gqfrance/game-of-thrones-nikolaj-coster-waldau-gq-frances-international-star-of-the-year-01.jpg
The beard.
https://40.media.tumblr.com/1a320a0e8ccde641c73ca49fa8a32c6f/tumblr_o1m1ychjIj1sphwo6o1_500.jpg
Jon Stoneheart,
It would be sweet.
Shy Lady Dragon,
The comment with links is awaiting moderation. 😉 You could google him though.
HotPinkLipstick,
Thanks for your good intentions 🙂 I googled Nikolaj and I prefer him without a beard (at least at present, it seems to have suited him better when he was younger). I admired his gorgeous wife’s blue dress.
Dwm,
While the internet can certainly be very unreliable – to put it mildly – people who work on a lot of tv shows and films (and GoT is definitely one of them) have to sign confidentiality agreements and could get into a lot of trouble if a leak is traced back to them. Acting, and all the behind the scenes work, are very competitive fields and if it’s known you blabbed when not supposed to that can blow any future chances of work. I’ve been lurking here since S3 and caliopesnow is very definitely not a troll, so I’d take her post in good faith. Sorry if this sounds rude, I certainly don’t mean it to, but there can be very good reasons to not reveal sources 🙂
“This is my understanding of it. I had a sit-down with Dan and David, we did the Tony Soprano walk [letting an actor know they’re being whacked]. And they said, “Look, you’re gone, it’s done.” And as far as the salary thing goes, that angered me when that story came out. I don’t know where it came from, but it was inaccurate in many ways. It’s going to put questions into your head and into fans’ heads that things are not what they are. Quite honestly, I have never been told the future of things in this show, but this is the one time I have. They sat me down and said, “This is how it is.” If anything in the future is not like that, then I don’t know about it – it’s only in David and Dan and George’s heads. But I’ve been told I’m dead. I’m dead. I’m not coming back next season. So that’s all I can tell you, really.”
They are a disgustingly gorgeous couple and they’ve been married almost 20 years. Looking at pretty people who are reportedly very nice pretty people, makes the day better. I have put the letter opener back in the drawer.
On another topic, Liam Cunningham seems like a total riot. His comments and interviews are always funny.
It would be nice to have more interviews from some of the actors playing smaller (not Clarke or Harington) roles. John Bradley gives good interview, Carice van Houten. I’d like to hear from Gemma Whelan, Eugene Simon maybe. And with good questions.
Alikat,
Especially since it’s JON’S FACE on the official HBO S6 poster. Yes, Jon’s dead. No point to Melisandre resurrecting a living person.
IceSpider,
All they have to do is talk to me with a sexy accent, and say GoT words. “Thrones” “Honour” “Dragons” “Kingdom” “Westeros” I’m easy! 🙂
But turning all the hotties into personal Hodors is funny
*inappropriate photo click* “Neat!”
HotPinkLipstick,
Hi Pinky *waves*
Here in the UK we have a GoT companion programme called Thronecast which interviews loads of cast members and is quite irreverent, so you get some fun answers not just the usual heard-it-all-before serious ones. There’s a load of them on Youtube here. Don’t think Eugene has been on there but all the others you mentioned have; I thought Liam and Gemma were great fun 😀
HotPinkLipstick,
Is you letter opener a little sword? Ice, Longclaw, Oathkeeper, Needle?
By the old gods and the new, I’d like some Liam/ Carice/ John Bradley interview!
Lulus Mum,
Thank you so much, these interviews are exactly what the doctor has ordered! The psychiatrist, I mean… *blushing*
Shawn,
That’s all I’ve been thinking…. Jon Snow is dead, but….
**Spoiler**
I don’t know who to black it out
Jon Stark or Target is alive!!
He’s Coming back. Look at his face when they said “i take it that you will be returning for season 6 as Jon Snow” Aaaaand he didn’t even say that he wouldn’t come back, he said that Jon Snow died, yeah No SHIT stabbed 10 times is a hell of a way to die but we have many theories and he has alredy been spotted on set twice and in belfast countless of times.
So with that said, i here by promise hand on thr heart that Jon Stark/Targaryen/Snow will be returning for Game Of Thrones Season 6 and forward.
Shy Lady Dragon,
Hi honey *waving Eastwards*. I’m still giggling at Liam saying he’d “give him one” (ie have sexy time) during a discussion about Daario’s good looks. He seems like good fun, as do a lot of the others. Enjoy! 😀
Jon Stoneheart,
I am sure Bran has a crush on her but I didn’t get that feeling from Meera. But who knows.
Shy Lady Dragon,
I read that some think Arya loves the Hound (not in a sexual manner) because she lied in that game but I don’t think lying here means necessarily the opposite is true, in this case: love opposite to hate. I think she felt pity toward the end or at best some kind of mixed relief, a strange sliver of affection, some affinity and lots of pity, but love is too strong I think.
TormundsWoman,
I’m soooooo afraid you might be right… I wish you weren’t.
I mean, lots of fans (myself included) love the Hound, why couldn’t she? And the lack of news regarding Rory are not a good sign 🙁
I agree. The situation strangely makes me think of how Bilbo, out of pity, did not kill Gollum, and then Gollum ended up having a decisive role in guiding Frodo and Sam into Mordor. But then, that could be wishful thinking, because I so badly wanna see more of Rory in the show.
And not that I’m a shipper, but a Sansan or Sanya reunion would be interesting. Isn’t he one of a few living people who know of LF’s involvement in Ned’s demise?
Bless Kit, he seems like such a lovely guy and he speaks beautifully! I do love a posh accent!! The play he’s in sounds really good, I might just have to try and get tickets when they go on sale.
Bill Turnball on the other hand… What an utter tool and waste of my licence fee the man is. He really makes me cringe!!
But if he has in a crush on her in the show, I think he has a chance
Lysarra,
Do you feel that Jon’s character – where we left him – was satisfying? I didn’t find him satisfying, as a character. There was so much missing in Jon. He may be limited in his expression by the Night’s Watch, but still, he seemed ..stagnant. They tried to soften him before his death, by making him fall in love; but, I was neither moved by, nor convinced by that love affair.
All characters mentioned have already descended into hell and are changed by it. Think of Sansa locked in that tower room with demon Ramsey, and Tyrion below ground in a dungeon, then in the crate.
They’ve all suffered already. In the coming season we’ll find out for sure whether their suffering has changed them for the better, or worse.
Lulus Mum,
Thank you!!! New things to watch! 🙂
Geralt of Rivia,
…or Tarstark.
JCDavis,
Arya couldn’t kill the Hound because she didn’t hate him, after all. He had become her friend by doing something that no one else had: tell her the truth.
In a way, The Hound was the voice of God.. or, Arya’s own subconscious projected into his body and his words.. if you like.
Kit isn’t technically lying though… Jon Snow *is* dead. However when he is resurrected he will be Jon Stark… or Jon Targ depending.
SO yes, for all intensive purposes, Snow is gone for good.
ladywolfsbane,
Lol… yes true true….. for me as well… love it
Sullied by Knight,
You’re welcome, enjoy! 😀
Wait I thought it was already confirmed that snow is donezo
Man I’m seeing a lot of familiar names on the comment board. Good to see everyone still thriving. I made a PSA that I was gonna be MIA during the NFL season. I’m back in the cyber flesh
Remember last week’s interview with the Dothraki Gilderoy Lockhart (a.k.a. Tamer Hassan)? When he was blustering about how enormous his “impact” was, he was asked if he was coming back in a future season, and he said:
And I wanted to say, Oh, but I think you just did, buddy! You know the sound of your voice, right? Of course you do, since you never stop talking about yourself. That sound is the sound of your death because D&D are never taking you back after you’ve run your mouth like that.
Ginevra,
Evening missus *more waving*. I too was surprised by the “I didn’t die” bit as this guy isn’t new to acting and presumably knows the score; others in the show are all super vague about what’s coming up for a reason, not just to be annoying/appear enigmatic and mysterious. I didn’t read the actual interview but judging by other posters’ comments he said his role is so important I thought he must have been cast as R’hllor him/her/itself at the very least, which would explain why he survived when others didn’t. Unless it’s a double bluff and he’s the first death of S6: “No I totally, absolutely, do not die, uh-uh, no way, I’m gonna outlive them all, honest” *promptly explodes or some other death that there is definitely no chance of surviving* 😉 If they can change Daario (for whatever reason) and not even attempt to have the new guy look anything like the last one, Mr H could well have blabbed his way out of an encore.
That’s a very tough call: Meera is not a PoV character in the books or on TV. She does not get that much development, so it’s tough to guess at what is going on inside of her mind. However, the books would weigh against it simply because Bran is a small boy in the books.
Of course, all this time in isolation might have left her a bit wonky….
I do not know how one can call Jon stagnant! He has evolved enormously over the course of the series. We saw a lot of how what that evolution meant, and how it is continuing last year.
Killing the Hound would have been the kind thing to do in that situation. An alternative explanation is that Arya did not “spare” the Hound: Arya instead left him to suffer a prolonged and painful death as a punishment.
The Hound was on Arya’s “list” after all. I wonder who is remaining on her list. I haven’t thought of that in quite a while.
All of the contestants on Face-Off are intimidated by the languages – this is pretty fun. Go David! I love this show, I never miss it anyway.
Wimsey,
Ditto what you said about Arya/Hound there was no “Mercy” in sparing him. Rory did a fab job in conveying that!
Lulus Mum,
Oh, I have seen some of Thronecast. I believe the Gwendoline Christie one last year was especially fun.
Than you though for the link.
I have just hit the speculation wall. I need the trailer…or the season to start.
Shy Lady Dragon,
It is not a GoT letter opener. I am already intimidating enough without giving them thoughts of the Red Wedding. I don’t want them wetting their pants 😉
If only they knew that during conference calls I read WotW!
Sullied by Knight,
http://time.com/3920558/arya-stark-game-of-thrones-meryn-trant/
The list might be longer in the books, but here is the show’s list.
Don’t know if it has been said already, but, of course, Jon Snow is dead. Jon Stark/Jon Targaryan will be born. It will be interesting which qualities will be added or subtracted when he is returned.
She didn’t want to give him mercy out of spite which worked out well because she didn’t want to kill him anyway.
Regarding the death of Jon Snow, we know from spoilers
Regarding Entertainment Weekly, James Hibberd has 4 more days. I didn’t see his tweet about a new article coming, but he has 4 more days.
Ginevra,
Oh, that was perfect! Thank you! The list is getting shorter!
I don’t get it, are journalist retarded or what? Why do they all keep asking the same and in my opinion wrong question over and over again?
Jon Snow was stabbed multiple times in the belly, of course he is going to die a few moments after the books/S05 ending.
So why do they keep asking if he is really dead? OF COURSE he is, or do you think you can recover from fatal wounds within a few seconds without any help.
I think we all agree that he died in this moment/shortly after!
This won’t change if they ask the question to another actor.
THE ONLY QUESTION OF MATTER IS:
Will he come back/be revived?
Anone,
Jon is limited by expression not because of the NW, but that’s the kind of person he is, brooding, melancholy, very internal who keeps things bottled up inside him, unlike say Tyrion. It’s a bit hard to put this across on TV as he never really shows his feelings through words or actions. It works better in the books since we have his access to his thoughts. But I don’t think you can say his character was stagnant. He went from an emo, angry teenager in S1, to a guy who watches his fellow NW men get murdered because of his mistake in S2, then falls in love and has to choose allegiance between love and duty in S3, becomes a real leader of men in S4. And in S5 is elected LC, but finds that ruling is not so easy and becomes increasingly isolated and lonely within the NW as he tries to do the right thing, until finally he is betrayed by his men. There has been a clear arc and character development for him.
I think the purpose of Ygritte in this story was not just for Jon to have a love affair, but rather the conflict that arises because of that. A lot of his arc has been him dealing with conflicting vows, choosing either between love/ family and his duty.
Lulus Mum,
Thanks for the link….really enjoyed the interviews!
I really hope that Jon will return as a revenant with a single goal, that of destroying the White Walkers. Asexual, not concerned with power, and re-dead when the magic leaves the world again, just so that there will be no nonsense about him taking the Iron Throne, romancing Dany/Arya/Sansa/another wilding lady, and so on.
Yeah, Ygritte was a plot device to make Jon care about the wildings. Too bad GRRM couldn’t think of anything more creative than a romance (friendship, maybe?).
That makes no sense. Just because he is resurrected it doesn’t mean the truth about his parentage will be magically known, by him or anyone else.
LOL
That’s exactly what I do during long, boring meetings.
Yaga:
Why would friendship be more creative than a romance? And I would say Jon did make a couple friends there namely Mance and then Tormund. I’m glad that we saw him in love and come of age. It helps broaden his character, and well, why not? On top of being a “plot device” which many things are tbh. There’s plenty of sex but really no romance in the series, aside from Dany/Drogo and that came to a quick end. GRRM incorporated road trips involving a pre-teen girl and scarred knight, a fiesty female warrior and shy (whatever Pod’s title is lol,) a young queen and her older protector, a sell sword and noble dwarf, why can’t there be one normal love relationship thrown into the mix without it being deemed cliche? Also, they want to appeal to the female audience as well I assume. And though there are many who would say they don’t care for romance and they only watch for the dragons and scheming and politics, there are many more who still do like a good romantic/love story to go along with their dragons and sword play and that’s not cliche, it’s human nature.
An asexual Jon? Romance is uncreative? Jeez… Are you okay?
YgriTte,
OK, first things first. Can we do away with ‘the romance is there to appeal to the female audience’? I’m female, and I rarely enjoy romances, and I’m pretty sure that, conversely, there do exist some men who enjoy romances as well. It’s pretty damn unfair to gender such a fundamental aspect of the human existence, I think.
Second – I think I’m mostly annoyed not by the romance itself, but by the, frankly idiotic, implication, that romance can somehow, and uniquely so, effect positive character transformation on the part of the man of the pair if the man is the more important character (“improve” the man). Funnily, it’s all on Martin.
Observe:
– Jon with Ygritte => Jon working to understand/save the wildings;
– Sam crushing on Gilly => Sam ceasing to be a coward;
– book Jaime crushing on book Brienne => book Jaime leaving Cersei.
That’s all annoying to me.
NOT annoying:
– show Missandei with show Grey Worm – that’s just a pair of buddies getting together. Grey Worm may be discovering a part of himself, and so is Missandei, but it’s not led either of them to act very differently from normal;
– show Jaime and show Brienne – Jaime’s transformation on the show is more complex; he thinks of his family, tries to protect his children and so on. It’s not just, ‘Cersei is a whore, and here is a Madonna’, without ever thinking of the children that he fathered. By the time it’s over, the romance will not be the only transformative agent.
Also, honestly, speaking as just one female, I think that Jon with Ygritte as friends would be much, much cuter than making Ygritte a love interest.
Ygritte and Jon? Robb and Talisa? Romance is a part of this story in a big way and for sure we will see something further down the line.George to popular believes,loves romantic relationships.
Daeny and Jon is probably most likely option of these three possibilities and i am prepared for this outcome.Maybe it was mainly directed at this pairing. It would be cliche,ice and fire,two of the three main protagonists.Let’s hope for family love and not sex,incest.After all Daeny craves for family.
There is one theory that Bran and Jon will have some kind of mind meld while Jon is in limbo land, where Bran will tell Jon the truth about his parents. Or another theory where Jon will meet a dead Ned Stark while he is in limbo, a la Harry Potter and Dumbledore where Ned will tell Jon the truth !
All crazy theories, none of which will happen, but still fun to read 🙂 .
Yaga,
” It’s pretty damn unfair to gender such a fundamental aspect of the human existence, I think.”
Here’s the thing, I specifically stated that many females don’t care for romance in order to avoid the “you are stereotyping women” conversation. Are you saying it is not accurate that many also DO like romance in their viewing entertainment? Who reads romance novels? Who has to drag their boyfriends out to see “The Notebook?” Call me old-fashioned then, but in my life experience it’s been a given that IN GENERAL more women than men would choose the love story if they were deciding what to see at the cinema on Friday night. I’m curious, do you think D&D cast all of the ensemble based upon just their acting skills alone? Or do you think maybe their looks came into the equation as well? And if you pick the latter then tell me just who you believe they’re trying to appeal to? Do you think the average male viewer cares if Jamie Lannister or Jon Snow are sexually appealing or not? No, it would be the female fans right? But then you could turn around and say “But you’re leaving out the gays.” Can’t win. Well I’m sorry but I grew up in an era where people weren’t so PC. We spoke in generalities, and it wasn’t to “exclude” anybody. It was just a given that people understood the unspoken exceptions are always there, and just as valid, but there were just standard norms that were understood and discussed, without anyone taking offense.
Geralt of Rivia,
Our conversation was about Ygritte and Jon falling in love. I was defending it. If you read his/her post you would see where they are asking why was the romance of Ygritte and Jon there to begin with instead of just a friendship.
Yaga,
“Romeo and Juliet,” Pride and Prejudice, Wuthering Heights, Gone with the Wind, Anna Karenina, and The Last of the Mohicans. Many of the greatest stories ever written centered around romance, and nearly every great novel contains at least some. “Love makes the world go ’round.” If you aren’t into it, that’s cool, but don’t assume it is tripe.
Yaga,
One of the big reasons for Jon’s guilt/ turmoil was that he was sleeping with Ygritte. He was not only breaking his vows, but also given his own birth as a bastard and the fact that he was honorable Ned Stark’s son, he thought what he was doing was dishonorable, but he kept doing it anyway. Besides, I don’t think Ygritte was the only one responsible for Jon’s better understanding of the Wildlings. Even if there had been no Ygritte, he would have still have come to the same place, he would still have ended up saving them after spending all those months with them.
Yeah, you could say she was a plot device, like many other characters in this story. She was fleshed out more on the TV show as compared to the books though.
I’m so excited for Season 6! damn I’m pumped. 3 more months… come on already!
Boy do I not miss all the constant bickering on these comment boards. I think I’m gonna pretend that we’re still in week 8 of the NFL and tread lightly over here.
Schroom,
Relax it’ll be here before u know it
ghost of winterfell,
You’re welcome 😀
YgriTte,
I am in agreement with YgriTte, GENERALLY speaking (like as in the MAJORITY) most females prefer a romantic relationship in their choice of entertainment. Be it reading, TV, movies, music… there are a preponderance of men who like it too (although most won’t openly admit it, except probably homosexual men- no offense intended). That being said there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule and I think GoT has done a wonderful job of putting all types of characters/relationships together to satisfy all stereotypes. Personally I wanted to see JS have a personally intimate relationship with another since all of his life he has really had to be an outsider in that aspect. He wasn’t allowed to feel like a full family member in his childhood and his short lived time at Castle black found that he only had really one true confidant and that was Samwell. JS NEEDED that relationship not only to further the arc of his divided loyalties to fam/NW/love interest but also to develop him into a much deeper person. You can’t and let me say this again – you can NOT appreciate the world (this human world) until you know the pain and joys of all aspects… great pain and great joy builds humans not only for character but for empathy as well… and don’t we all want to empathize with everyone and really try to understand “their stories” so that we are a better civilization? How can Jon lead and be great if he doesn’t experience all of life’s ups and downs? To me that is the only way he can be the true Azor Ahai! Ruling from experience and empathy, kindness and strength. Ok..rant over.
God of tits and wine,
Don’t go! LOL
So, whos your team? You missed some football talk the other day!
Also, whos your pick for the SB?
Deesensfan,
Can we talk about the beauty of Patriots Schadenfreude Day? Can we??? I miss KSK so so much. Where is Tommy from Quinzee when you need him?
Wait. Hold on. Am I talking football and I have breasts? NO! I also enjoy romance, though more of the Jaime/Brienne or Ned/Catelyn variety than the Jon/Ygritte variety and certainly none of the varieties that include Sansa or Arya.
Maybe I can combine my love of both and write some hot hot Tom Brady/Peyton Manning fanfiction. The problem with that is, I think they probably both like to sub. …Oh, I could add in my American Horror Story love and have Angela Bassett top them both before she is revealed as Azor Ahai.
YgriTte,
Ehh. I’m not sure what your point about the actors’ looks is – actors generally skew more attractive then normal people, and that has no relevance to the existence of romance or lack thereof in the plot. On the other hand, the phrase ‘viewers are interested in romance’ uses around the same number of letters as ‘women are interested in romance’ and actually fewer than ‘female viewers are interested in romance’. It’s easy to be inclusive.
As for whether men actually are interested… let’s see. I hope that you’ll agree that most Internet review sites, such as Rotten Tomatoes or IMDB, skew young white American male, right? That’s why their scores are usually skewed towards what this particular segment of the audience likes. And yet, on RT, Love Actually (my go-to romance standard), sits at 73% fresh over 31,625,392 reviews. (The critics average at 63% fresh.) That’s 31 million people. Because of how the site is skewed in general, there is simply no possibility it’s only women giving it these high scores.
Ginevra,
Like I said, it’s not the romance itself (and you mentioned some of my favourite works), it’s what it’s for and how it’s written.
That said, Ygritte has been dead for a season. I’m just hoping that, once Sam stores Gilly at his parents’, and Grey Worm and Missandei go as steady as can be in their situation, we’ll be mostly done with the romances until Jaime and Brienne finally hook up; and that then, it will be mercifully quick once they meet again.
Sorry, but I still disagree. While I do agree that Arya became to care for the Hound, she was able to walk away. How many people who really really care for someone could watch them die a slow death whilst begging to be put out of their misery? Arya had used needle before, after all. I think there is a reason that she would walk away, but it didn’t have to do with caring for him, it had to do with caring for herself.
We are of course exchanging thoughts that were not written of or shown. In other words we are “thinking” for the character and no one can say, this is the truth or that is…it is just conjecture, unless GRRM writes it differently later. The way I wrote it is the way it works in my head. 🙂
HotPinkLipstick,
Person with breasts who loves football=the cool chick
Person with that (those?) appendage who is running around actually playing the game=non existent
It’s sexist I tell ya!
And Angela Bassett for AA, hmm do you have inside information there? Maybe she playing behind faceless (wo)man mask. Oh wait, you said that would be in your story…if I could make my own Azor Ahai it would have to be Morgan Freeman. Cause like, he’s god right.
Yaga,
Oh I like that, not because I don’t like romance, but because I think this actually makes a lot of sense given what has happened to his character, and also with other revived characters. It’s already been foreshadowed in the books that those who come back come back with a singular purpose – Beric protecting the Riverlands, Lady Catelyn getting revenge – so it figures that Jon would come back remembering only the last thing he was concerned about (but being able to separate himself from the rigidity of his oath to the NW). I agree that the thought of Jon with anyone else romantically at this point is a little strange, and I feel like that ship may have sailed for him with Ygritte, so that’s why I don’t like thinking about shoehorning another woman in there for him.
And I mean, if anyone wants to focus on a romance in any story, it’s a good idea to focus on the slowest burning relationship since it might suggest some longterm payoff the author has in mind. And really the only slowburn in ASOIAF/GoT is Jaime/Brienne (and Jaime/Cersei, but that’s been a slowburn disintegration). So that’s the main one to keep your eyes trained towards if you like your romance (not that the other romances weren’t enjoyable to read about or watch, but they clearly had a shelf-life – burned fast and ended quickly). Other likeliest possibilities are Sansa/The Hound, possibly Arya/Gendry, and maybe some others I’m forgetting. But Jon/Daenerys, Jon/Sansa, Jon/Arya? No.
Edited to add Sam/Gilly to the romance pile, though I’m not quite sure where it’s leading. It’s definitely been a slower burn, but they’ve consummated their relationship now, so hmmm…
http://highlighthollywood.com/2016/01/the-revenant-mad-max-the-martian-game-of-thrones-and-star-wars-lead-golden-reel-nominations/
thrones up for more awards.
It makes sense you find it annoying if that is all you see at the core of the transformation for these characters.
However, just looking at Jaime which is the biggest transformation:
Do I want Brienne / Jaime? I like the idea because I’m a total wuss for romance. Do I think Jaime wouldn’t have changed without Brienne? No really. He could have lost that hand regardless, and his thought process was bound to change because that’s who he used to be.
Yaga,
The analogy (of which I’ll admit I’m not very good at sometimes) of good looking actors was an attempt to point out that the creators of book/shows do throw stuff in with the intention of appealing to certain segment of the audience, even if it might appeal to other segments as well the aim is geared towards what they think a certain age or gender group will be interested in and that good looking men, and certain aspects of the way they make romantic subplots play out, are created with, at least partially, the intention of pleasing the female viewers, so they can maintain as wide an audience as possible.
Shy Lady Dragon,
I wouldn’t worry overmuch about lack of news about Rory, though. The show works in different ways, there ARE 8 seasons after all, and right now no one knows anything about the Hound. Also: I didn’t see a maester under the rock but then I didn’t really lifted the damn thing. So who can tell…
Speaking of romance and GoT/ASoIaF…..I don’t like romance for romance sake. To me either a story is romantic (romcom/dramcom/dram/dram) or it is not, it maybe has romantic elements about it, but that isn’t the defining nature of the writing or source material. That is GoT’s to me. I don’t believe that GRRM set out to write a sweeping romantic saga….say like Bronte or Austen. (which I adore both)
But I think it is a misstep to paint people with such a broad brush that only women like romance and the opposite only men like to see action adventure or sports related stuff. There are a percentage of people who do fall into that category, but when you are talking science fantasy or high fantasy, all bets are off. The brain engages in a different way rather than slipping the story into a neat tidy box called “romance” “action adventure”. (even though it appears there are tons of fans who are certain that this or that couple will marry or be together romantically in GoT’s)
Tolkien’s works were not about romance and in fact had few women in the total works of the Sil or LotR’s/Hobbit or HoME. Yet when there are women portrayed, typically there is a romance with a bitter sweet outcome, almost always. No “happily ever after” for him and I say, no “happily ever after” for the characters of GoT’s/ASoIaF. I am not in GRRM’s head, so of course this is just my thoughts, not reality – he has pretty much shown that romance MOSTLY leads to a pretty crappy ending for the loving couple, very sad and very bitter sweet.
Last. A real life example. My brother, who is very much like me in so many ways (or I am like him), HATES “chick flicks” and you couldn’t drag him to a theater to see one and if we all want to watch one on the television or DVD, he whines and complains through the whole thing until we either give up or get him the hell out of the room. By the same token, the ladies (his wife, me, his adult daughter, her husband and so on) can watch GoT’s, any war movie, any sports related movies, action adventure of any kind, comic book/movie remakes of all sorts and be happy about it. To me that says that the ladies and the husbands of can enjoy all sorts of entertainment, it is my brother alone who has the issue and is loud and long about his feeling of wasting his time to watch. (there is only one thing we all agree on – the zombie/vampire thing is SO yesterday and now overdone to boring levels)
A long winded reply to some comments here today. And…
God of Tits and Wine
I am not seeing any name calling here or any labeling of purist or show apologizing here. There is good healthy debate, as there should be. So no need to run back to your football safety zone *pun intended* and hide until April. I missed you!
kit_hepburn,
Oh yeah, forgot about Sam and Gilly 🙂 I don’t know why but when I think of romantic couples they never spring to mind. Then there was also Robb & Talisa and Tyrion & Shae. If you want to call them as such but I don’t see Shae as anything but a conniving Biatch.
kit_hepburn,
Isn’t it a bit weird that the only people Jon is being shipped with are his sisters and ( most probably) aunt ? The only person I want to see Jon ending up with is Val, if that sort of thing is in his future, who sadly has not been included in the show. And if there is no more romance for Jon, thats fine.
The only romance I can see happening on the show are Jaime/ Brienne and Arya/ Gendry.
JCDavis,
I think you summed up the gist of things quite well actually 🙂
“Disturbing” is the word that I would use! I think that the time came and went for Jon+Val in the books; in a lot of ways, the main purpose Val serves in the book is to show us that Jon has mentally moved beyond that dream, at least for now. They did part of that in one scene last year (“I’m still in love with her”), and the show did not have time to commit to a drawn out flirtation a la Robb & Talissa, particularly if that was not going to go anywhere and/or contribute to bigger plot issues down the road.
heh, in our world, a lot of them: and they would say that they are being “moral” by doing so. But that’s the big issue here: we cannot project anachronistic values onto the characters. Westeros is a world where letting someone in that condition live is a cruelty, not a mercy: and speeding someone in that condition on their way is considered a kind and honorable thing to do, not murder.
I agree, but…. nothing develops a character quite like romance does. Even with real people, one of the things that tells you the most about a person is their tastes and romantic past. And few things introduce road blocks to life quite like romance does. Moreover, it’s a constant: most of us usually have a girlfriend/boyfriend until we marry: and then we divorce and start the cycle all over again! 😀
In a way, it is too bad that they could not have had Val last year for a “failed” romance (although I suppose that this still could become an unfailed one in Winter). However, for it to work, the show would have had to devote a lot more time to it relative to other things than would have the books: because so much of the effect of romance is in your head (you know: “I… can’t… stop… THINKING… about… [ok, who are we kidding, lusting after…]…. HER!!!!!!!” while avoiding metaphorical axe blows from a wight), the “on screen” flirtation : internal turmoil ratio is really low.
ghost of winterfell,
I second the Jon and Val thing- bummed she is apparently cut from the show. While reading, I was pulling for them (I was also pulling for a Jon or Branakin seduction to the “dark side”, or the “other side”) Who knows where that is going in the books…. but if the show has cut Val, it’s a good indication of what may happen ultimately in the books, which just may be a whole lot of nothing.
kit_hepburn,
Oh god, thank you. You wrote out what I meant much more clearly than I did.
I just like inhuman characters, what can I say… I once wrote a romance between a girl who was discovering she was the spawn of an evil god, and a man. It all went pretty well until she suddenly discovered that, once they got close, the otherwise-nice-if-somewhat-average guy started to respond to her evil-god-subconscious, and decided to start killing people in her name. Now that was a fun conundrum. 😀
And if Bran or someone did magically put the information in Jon’s head, then why would he believe that the vision was real? Most people would assume that they had dreamed it. It’s entirely possible that Jon still will not know who his mother is at the end of the season.
Moreover, Jon almost certainly will be coming back sooner rather than later. If nothing else, then we have the book to support that idea:
Bran probably will not be learning the truth until much later than that.
So, I expect in both media, Jon will be brought back from the brink with no more clue about who his parents are than he had before he was stabbed.
In this case, the “whole lot of nothing” was useful character development for Jon. However, it was decidedly uncinematic!
Heh, the one thing that I sort of wish that the show had done if they could have found a way to do it well is “Cylon” Ygritte. In the book, Jon talks to Ygritte in his mind a lot: usually along the lines of “They know nothing” or “I know something.” However, that might have made the audience think that Jon is cracking up: and the ice of “doing it well” on which the showrunners would have been skating would have been very thin indeed.
Luka Nieto,
Never underestimate the magic of television. Jon Snow is dead. Long live Jon Targaryan.
Wimsey says this regarding mercy killings
“heh, in our world, a lot of them: and they would say that they are being “moral” by doing so.But that’s the big issue here: we cannot project anachronistic values onto the characters.Westeros is a world where letting someone in that condition live is a cruelty, not a mercy: and speeding someone in that condition on their way is considered a kind and honorable thing to do, not murder.”
I live in Oregon, where assisted suicide for terminal people is legal. I don’t think that this should be used always, but it has been successful. I had to watch my own mother pass at 56 from cancer and she was in such pain, the best that could be done was to morph her out until she finally slipped into a coma. That was far better than seeing her in such pain and misery. I considered it a “mercy” way to let her go.
regarding romance Wimsey says:
“I agree, but…. nothing develops a character quite like romance does. Even with real people, one of the things that tells you the most about a person is their tastes and romantic past.And few things introduce road blocks to life quite like romance does.Moreover, it’s a constant: most of us usually have a girlfriend/boyfriend until we marry: and then we divorce and start the cycle all over again!
In a way, it is too bad that they could not have had Val last year for a “failed” romance (although I suppose that this still could become an unfailed one in Winter).However, for it to work, the show would have had to devote a lot more time to it relative to other things than would have the books: because so much of the effect of romance is in your head (you know: “I… can’t… stop… THINKING… about… [ok, who are we kidding, lusting after…]….HER!!!!!!!” while avoiding metaphorical axe blows from a wight), the “on screen” flirtation : internal turmoil ratio is really low.”
Actually I do agree to what you are saying, but you are replying to something different than the comments up thread. I “think”, anyhooz. I too think that romance is a very important tool for a good writer, even in action adventure or fantasy. What I was pointing out is that there shouldn’t be a pigeon (sorry Pigeon) hole to stick people in and label them “chick flick” women or “sports jock flick” men. You just proved that you like a good romance, I love a good action adventure film. As it relates to the works of Tolkien or GRRM however, it is known that if you are in love with someone? You are pretty much screwed. 😀 😀
Mea culpa! Yes, I realize that Westerners are rediscovering this. It seems that the Christian church’s strident stances against such things had a huge influence on western thinking about this even after Christianity’s influence on western culture diminished. As such, it still seems engrained in our collective minds that it is “wrong” and/or that not killing someone is the “merciful” thing to do. I was merely cautioning that Arya might not have considered her actions merciful: they might have been quite the opposite!
Actually, I am not a fan of romance per se. I recognize that it is a great tool for developing characters. Moreover, it’s “normal”: it seems weird to watch people go about life without such concerns. It’s also a great red-herring tool in mysteries: nothing gets people acting out-of-sorts and secretive quite like romance does.
(And as for the works of Tolkien and GRRM, well, I would never compare them! Tolkien told stories with plots; GRRM tells them with characters. As both authors stress in writings and interviews, that’s a protostome vs. deuterostome difference!)
Nice!
Less than 3 now 🙂
JCDavis,
” What I was pointing out is that there shouldn’t be a pigeon (sorry Pigeon) hole to stick people in and label them “chick flick” women or “sports jock flick” men”
I hope you don’t think that’s what was being alluded to though. I don’t think anyone really thinks that narrowly, myself included. I know that most people, guys and girls alike, enjoy a variety of things, depending on the mood they’re in. But it’s true in my experience that at least in a younger age group it is more females than males who enjoy the romantic aspects of a story. This is just my own experience in life and dealings with both genders. Other people’s experience could be different of course.
We need a trailer! 🙂
I think it was, above all, too early. Ygritte only died at the end of Season 4. In comparison, she died a book and a half before ADWD.
HotPinkLipstick,
YgriTte,
LOL!
I am not your typical girl… I love sports and not into the romance stuff either….. but hey isn’t that sexist as well? I am allowed to say that I am a girl.
I don’t play football. I watch from the comfort of my couch, though I can kick a man’s ass, like some of my fellow martial artists.. Queen Nym is one of them.
In regards to romance and GOT…. the show does need it… and Jon needed to love Ygritte, in my opinion, as part of his character development (also, hes too pretty to not have at least one lover LOL). But I dont think he should fall in love again, in my opinion, especially with Dany.. too cliché.
That’s if he comes back.
Trailer…….
this is torture…..
anyway here is the trailer for the DVD box set of season 5, for those who haven’t seen it.
YgriTte,
Boy howdy, that is something I think everyone can agree upon. We do need a trailer to keep us from spinning our brains out of our skulls. 😉 This off time is great for some good debate, though. As long as it is civil, I am all in. Thanks for your comments. 🙂
Well, half a book: Crows & Dragons were one “book” in two volumes, after all! However, if you had been reading all along, then it had been 10 years: and that made it seem like a very long time, even though it’s very unclear from GRRM’s narrative just how much time is supposed to have elapsed. (For all the talk of the show invoking “jet packs,” it seems like all of these events happen in much less time in the books than they do on the show.)
Still, I think that it would have cluttered Jon’s storyline last year: and although there were storylines that dragged a bit last year, Jon’s was not one of them.
Deesensfan,
I wrote this whole brilliant reply and lost it! I will most definitely say that I am much too old to be a cool chick, or to care about being cool even. Go maturity! Now…where did I put my AARP card?
Let me reassemble my thoughts on romance.
Jaime and Cersei are a dying romance. We never see them falling in love; we only see them falling out of it. And Brienne is very much not a Madonna. By the time she sees Jaime again, she has killed, lied, and she betrays him. (And I think he knows it when he goes with her.)
Jaime ends his relationship before Brienne shows up at his camp though. In the Riverlands, he moves through the stages of grieving his relationship, ending when he apathetically burns Cersei’s letter. He only cares about her in a vague way by then. He only chooses Brienne over Cersei when he sends Brienne off to find Sansa. He very specifically betrays Cersei then, but that’s just another blow to the already dying relationship and it certainly not a Madonna/Whore choice.
Brienne and Jaime are a text book enemies to friends and most likely to lovers story. That’s why this whole idea of Jaime killing Cersei and then himself is just a giant pile of YA novel horseshit. Jaime doesn’t care enough about Cersei at the end of Dance to be fussed if she dies. He might kill her in defense of others, but he no longer has any strong feelings about her. He certainly wouldn’t be overcome with grief from killing her such that he’d be compelled to kill himself. His whole story is about developing more emotional maturity than Edward Cullen.
GRRM does love writing the unexpected romance though. Beauty and the Beast indeed.
Angela Bassett is the best Azor Ahai. She doesn’t even need a flaming sword. She will burn through White Walkers with the power of her glare. Although she might cut off Tom’s and Peyton’s arms and jaws and lead them around the woods to keep the other asshole football players away while she has a katana strapped to her back.
Yeah, I just went old school Michonne with it.
Deesensfan,
What’s funny to me about some of the sports/romantic film talk is, while I’m not a football fan (I do play FFB and I understand the game quite well, I just don’t enjoy it), I’m a rabid college basketball fan, and I really enjoy baseball, as well. Where I grew up, there was no NFL team. I wasn’t about to be a Bengals fan, the Colts weren’t in Indy (wouldn’t have rooted for them, anyway), and there were no Titans in Tennessee (the team most likely to have gotten my allegiance). In terms of films, I will avoid what people term “chick flicks” at just about any cost and I also avoid romantic comedies (which, I guess, are chick-flicks, too). I just don’t like them. The one exception is Love, Actually. I do love that film, and my enjoyment of it surprised the hell out of me, but how could I not watch something with people like Alan Rickman ( 🙁 ) and Emma Thompson in it? I remember the first time I saw Jojen and thought, omg, it’s the kid from Love, Actually. 🙂
Matthew The Dragon knight,
Thanks – hadn’t seen that yet. Is it playing on TV now?
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
*pulls up a seat at Queen Nym’s table*
Why would anyone willingly be a Bengal fan?
I’m not big on college basketball, but I used to be a massive MLB fan. That took up too much time, and I ended up switching to tennis and the Olympics. I’ll watch water polo every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
The problem with “chick flicks” and “rom-coms” is not that they are romantic stories. The problem is that the characters are so superficial. They are charicatures. They are simply bad movies. Love, Actually, while romantic, has people acting like real people and the stories are brilliantly interwoven.
Real romantic stories aren’t shallow.
HotPinkLipstick,
Most rom coms are just silly but if you add an excellent actor or two, can be elevated to a movie worth watching. I do like Love Actually, You’ve Got Mail, When Harry Met Sally, etc. because of the personalities.
Kit Harington was spotted at Heathrow today, so he’ll be attending the SAG Awards on Saturday, most likely. More interviews about whether Jon is dead inbound!
She’s extremely naive and inexperienced, including sexually, when she first meets him, though. That’s what the Madonna/whore thing is about. Jaime in the books specifically begins to hate Cersei because Tyrion told him that she [famous book quote here]. That’s what’s going through his mind. Not that she tortured people, or something actually evil – it’s that she cheated on him. By comparison, he idolises the ‘maiden’ Brienne.
It isn’t like this on the show, obviously – Jaime and Brienne are much more equals there; it’s less that she is naive and more that she has transitioned to her own version of cynism. (Show Brienne is an awesome beast and I love her. She’s so physical in her reactions! I would be, too, if I had her capabilities.)
Personally, I prefer the option where he’s compelled by honour to kill Cersei because she’s a danger to the population of King’s Landing (echoing his choice with Aerys) – and where Cersei kills him as he kills her.
Happy to see so many people sharing in the love of Love, Actually! 😀
HotPinkLipstick,
You make fantastic points about the “problems” with “chick flicks” and “romantic comedies,” and also what makes Love, Actually so different.
Back to GoT, while I’m not big on romance in stories, one of the reasons I like Grey Worm and Missandei is their relationship brings a different note, and a real note, imo, to the Essos story. Of course, being GoT, it isn’t just straightforward, what with Grey Worm being a eunuch, but that doesn’t change the feelings they have for each other being grounded in something real. I know some can’t stand Grey Worm and Missandei, but I think it a nice counterpoint to what else is happening.
Yaga,
Jaime’s break from Cersei starts long before his conversation with Tyrion. Jaime loathes himself for the acts he commits out of love for Cersei, pushing Bran out the window.
Then when he is captured, for the first time he is away from Cersei and can begin to see her through a clearer lens. Back in KL, he ‘betrays’ her by refusing to leave the KG to appease Tywin and get him off Cersei’s back, then by sending Brienne after Sansa, then again when he rejects her blowjob offer and then, finally when he frees her enemy, Tyrion. All of that happens before he learns of her sleeping around. The relationship is more than half dead at that point. So no, Jaime is not dumping Cersei just because of her betrayal. His mantra is just the thing he hangs on to during his travels. But he ended that relationship the moment he decided to free Tyrion, before he knew about Lancel, etc.
Brienne doesn’t represent female purity to Jaime as much as she represents the knightly ideals he held as a child. Brienne isn’t a Madonna, she’s the knight Jaime always wanted to be.
So when she comes to him, beaten and broken, he again sees himself.
There is nothing about that triangle that is Madonna/Whore.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
We are very similar! 🙂 lol
I love football, futebol, and hockey. I watch them religiously. Even UFC and boxing. Baseball from time to time. LOL
ALSO I am a titans fan! Imagine you went with them ! that would have been awesome
HotPinkLipstick,
I completely understand, that isn’t your typical romance, and of course, it would come from GRRM
Sean C.,
for sure!
helloooooo
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3420997/Kit-Harington-channels-Night-s-Watch-wearing-black-ensemble-London-preparing-Game-Thrones-fans-hopes-dashed-Jon-Snow.html
Alikat,
I guess according to Kit, Dan & David’s story about George asking them about who was Jon’s parents was just a red herring because if Jon is dead, is doesn’t matter who Jon’s parents were.
What I think makes Love, Actually such a good film is that it covers just about every aspect of love rather than focusing solely on romantic love. It really is a “love story” in the truest sense.
(However, seeing Alan Rickman in it now makes me sad….)
HotPinkLipstick,
Shy Lady Dragon,
fwit, Conleth has a beard coming too. But his is not for Varys. You can see it starting to grow in video.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BA-zKEaJfXw/
I doubt that Jaime will kill himself. I equally doubt that he will survive killing Cersei. He might be already dying or doomed when he kills her, and that might well be why he is doing it. Or Cersei might simply realize that she’s had the wrong little brother in mind all of this time (!Irony!) and knife Jaime while he is killing her: if the prophecy is correct, then he would be well exposed for that.
This could well windup paralleling Mollari and J’Kar in Babylon 5, where one of them strangling the other has been “seen” by one of the characters and by us long before it happens. However, the circumstances under which it happens wind up being very different from what we would have though when we first “see” the scene. Between prophecy and foreshadowing, we will get exactly what we were told: but it won’t be as most people expect it.
Deesensfan,
Deesensfan,
Haha alright. Oh really ppl were chopping it up about football over here recently? I bleed green, PHI Eagles all day. I’ll spare u the rebuttal, yeah no rings however won titles before the SB. Happy Chip got canned because he was a gimmick….. This SB is gonna be a fun one! Two teams with stellar defenses. I’d like to see Peyton ride off into the sunset on top so I’m going for the Broncos. Carolina is playing lights out so we’ll see….
Wimsey, I want to not read you so stop quoting me. I love reading my own comments and you’re forcing me to respond.
Why do you miss that in Jaime’s dream, Cersei leaves him with Brienne? Cersei, along with all of the other DEAD people (or soon to be dead people) leave Jaime and he is told he will live until the flames go out. Brienne sword is still burning when Cersei leaves goes.
It’s like we are being hit over the head with Cersei dying and Jaime living with his fate tied to Brienne.
The only idiot who thinks Jaime and Cersei are going to die together is Cersei, and she is the least reliable of narrators.
Ugh.
r-hard,
LOL
that’s not her haha
Cersei’s line about how they will depart the world together is classic foreshadowing.
Er, and what problem do you have with me? I do not recall interacting with you ever.
TormundsWoman,
Thank you! I’ve had a shitty day and technically it’s not over. The thought of a maester hidden under a rock, determining Rory’s comeback sounds really conforting 🙂
Sean C.,
If true, brave move from him.
You mean besides the fact that your mama dresses you funny? 😛 I have no issues with you and I also agree with you and many others that Cersei will die at Jaime’s hand and somehow that he will also die at the same time. How that happens, who knows – maybe not even GRRM yet, but it was foretold/prophesied.
I LOVE Love, Actually. Well…let me back this train up. I didn’t much care for it the first time I saw it, but then actually…. 😛 I fell in love with it the second time. And remember, “love actually IS all around us”.
Because? You ask? Because with ALL the different plots going on, they “actually” all come together somehow. It is all interrelated and makes sense and like you said, it is all shades of love…not just the classic “Love Story” (which was the saddest movie I ever saw). And indeed, I won’t be able to watch ANY movie with Alan Rickman in it without my heart aching and breaking to bits. How can I EVER watch HP again with my beloved Snape in every movie? It just isn’t the same, can’t be. *whimper*
*sniff* my mother died a long time ago… and I like the way that I dress! 🙁
8)
Yeah, Love, Actually, definitely is a movie that is not for everyone: and it seems that people who do not like it really dislike it. Oh well! I think that it all hangs together by a thread: but I think also that the thread is thin enough that it breaks for some people and leaves the movie a disjointed mess.
However, “Christmas is all around us…” is on my Solstice iPod mix, and will remain there with such other classics as Bing and Bowie’s “Little Drummer Boy/Peace of Earth” and the Kink’s “Father Christmas (Give us your Money)” from this day until my last!
Speaking of songs, I wonder if this year’s trailer will get a song? Last year’s song was a real tipoff about the story. However, that is the only year they put a song onto it, so it really might have been a one-off thing.
And with that one lil statement, so many things suddenly become so very, very clear. 😉
IIRC, they put Seven Devils from Florence + the Machine onto season two’s trailer. One of my absolute favorites!
And they also put a song onto the new trailer for the season 5 DVD’s, soooo… I wouldn’t mind. I very much liked the song choice for season 5.
Honest question here: where was it prophesied?
I had forgotten that. However, as I know neither the song nor the band (was it recorded after 1989?), that might be why! Now, let me get back to complaining about young people and that things cost too much.
Cersei gets the prophecy of her death at the same time that she gets the prophecy about “Margaery” (hah!) in the books. That was not shown on the series: but that probably is because nothing came of it last season.
Cersei later foreshadows who else will die with her. It’s not a prophecy – nobody listening, including herself, would say that she’s seriously predicting the future – but it is very much in keeping with typical foreshadowings that you read/see/hear all the time in literature and film.
Maggie the Frog gave a prophecy to young Cersei as you may recall at the beginning of Season 5, however – the part about being killed by a younger sibling (Valonqar) was left out of the show, but is in the book. Very well known I think, sorry if that is a spoiler. Anyway, some think it to be Tyrion as the younger sibling, but Jaime is the younger twin of the two. Then, Cersei herself foresee’s that Jaime and she will die at the same time.
I have my own thoughts about this and why, but I do believe that it will be Jaime that will kill Cersei and in some way in the process they both die.
I see Wimsey beat me to it. 🙂
Wimsey,
JCDavis,
OH, HA! That prophecy. I’m slow. And my opinion about it is that it has nothing to do with Jaime (which I’ve already talked about… a lot), which is why I failed to identify that’s what you were referring to, heh. Carry on.
kit_hepburn,
Preach.
And it was never prophesied that the valonqar, whomever that may be, will die with Cersei. Cersei repeats to herself that she and Jaime came into this world together and will die together. She also believes that Jaime would have come to her if he’d gotten her letter and that he never would have gone off with that great shambling creature. By time Dance comes along, Cersei is wrong about every single thing she thinks about Jaime.
But okay, let’s ignore all of that because…because…I have no fucking clue why people ignore all of that.
What’s prophesized is that Cersei will die by the valonqar’s hands and what’s foreshadowed is that Jaime will be with Brienne once Joff, Tywin and Cersei are dead.
Ughhh just give us a bloody trailer already…
Completely off topic, is anyone of you lovely fans from Sheffield? I’m thinking about studying there for a semester with the Erasmus Program next year. It’s my top choice mainly because Sean Bean is from there 😛 can’t get enough of that accent, really.
But anyway, this is a thread about Jon, so…
When interviews are done, I’m sure in a lot of cases the questions are “screened” in advance, so I’m sure what’s been happening in a few cases is reporters have had the question “Are you coming back/being resurrected?” ready to go, and found they weren’t allowed to ask it, so they had to settle for “Is Jon really dead?”… that would go part of the ways to explaining why it’s just been asked ad nauseum. That, and that reporters are often stupid so I’m sure for some the more pressing question hasn’t even occurred to them.
There is nothing to ignore. We have a prophecy concerning Cersei’s death. We have a foreshadowing concerning Jaime’s death. The fact that the prophecy does not say things is a negative evidence argument: the prophecy does not say a lot of things because it’s about Cersei, and not about her killer or her supplanter.
I doubt that question is being asked. Remember, the interviewers are not fans, and really only fans are anticipating resurrection. After all, the show has not dealt with this since (I think) the 3rd season: and the interviewers are not going to remember particular details from any one TV show from two years ago when they have to remember the general details about dozens (if not hundreds) of shows and films.
Remember, after they get done with this, then they have to get ready to do the same thing for whatever films are opening, other TV series that are starting, etc., etc. It’s actually remarkable that they keep up with as much as they do!
I’m lmao reading some of these quotes. I was off here for a couple of days and come back to find references to “The Shining” and “when Harry Met Sally” and all variety of strange stuff. Jeez, we really need some news or the damned trailer already. Sean says Kit was spotted going to the SAGs? Good, that will be something interesting.
But no, Wimsey, Meera is a smart girl, she wouldn’t let herself be tooo bored, I hope. The CotF could teach her how to throw those wicked fireballs, and explore the region, hone her survival and hunting skills. After all, the CotF have survived for thousands of years, they must have some interestesting secrets to share.
Wimsey,
The question is being asked. Although the interviewers are not fans, even if they barely watch the show, they are aware that Jon’s death was ambiguous. They ask that question. A lot. Because they get paid to ask that question.
In my experience, smart people are the hardest ones to keep from getting bored! I mean, you probably can keep Hodor entertained indefinitely with the fun game of “let’s move the pile of rocks again!” or “Spot the Child in the Forest!” Meera: not so much.
It is true that the cave exploration could work for her, at least for a while. And, who knows, maybe she’ll find something down there that actually is relevant. She probably is trapped inside of the cave: like Hodor’s Bastard, I suspect that the Walkers are well-aware of the Children (it’s no coincidence that they left so many wights by the tree), and they probably have any other exits from the cave (if there are any) well-guarded.
I think that the bigger issue for Meera would be anxiety about what is happening in the outside world. She might get a bit more information about what is happening in her homeland because the Weirwood trees presumably are functioning there. But it still would seem very distressing to get so little firsthand information, and also to be basically trapped in a place where she cannot get home.
And, let’s face it: she’d be pining for human companionship. Hodor’s nice, but not eloquent; Bran is undergoing apotheosis; and the Children are basically creepy hobbits!
The question I keep hearing is “Is Jon really Dead?” Whenever Kit or Benioff or Weiss say “He’s dead,” I’ve never read the followup: “Is Jon going to come back to life?” It seems that people would make a deal if they got that question and then tried to dissemble on that!
HotPinkLipstick,
S’okay. A lot of people (many in this very thread) are probably going to be really confused and surprised as the story unfolds over the course of the next three years. I’m sure that’s what GRRM and D&D want anyway. And I’m not excluding myself from being confused or surprised… just not about this. 😀
One of the Dothraki is going to see some footage tomorrow and do ADR (voice over) work.
I saw that interview, but I believe that was uttered before season 5 aired. What you say is probably true, he was shy and then grew more comfortable. Between seasons 4 and 5, I remember he was literally taking pictures with whomever asked him for one. Owen Teale in an interview said that Kit was handling the whole famous issue admirably well.
However, because of his character’s situation at the end of season 5, things grew far more intense. For several months he was signing autographs and talking to fans, but he was asking them not to take pictures, and many still went ahead a took them. Recently he complained about people taking pictures of him everywhere, all the time, without his consent, and calling this behaviour really “rude”. A simple browse in Tweeter or Tumblr, brings back hundreds of pictures of they guy walking down the street looking down, wearing caps and hats… sometimes you can tell the picture was literally taken inches away from his face. That must be really annoying.
And the worst part is that once/if he comes back in the show, he’s going to have to put up with people saying he lied, even though he was actually fulfilling his contractual obligation!!
Wimsey,
The question you keep seeing is “Is Jon really dead?” Doesn’t mean other questions aren’t being asked.
Wimsey,
Meh, his answer would be the same even if you were to ask him exactly THAT question the way you want it.
One of the first EW interviews after the season was done, Kit was given the context of the books (that it is ambiguous and not definite), and told they also know that his contract has been renewed with a salary raise for future season and he got upset. Said he was mad that story about his salary being renewed for next seasons coming out and that he was told he was dead and there’s that.
Anyway, whoever has info about the books knows what was being asked and why. As we don’t know how he will come back they probably avoided that specific wording. Now granted “ambiguous” could mean that after 100+ stabbings Jon simply gets up and says “boy, do I have a headache!”, but I’m sure that was not the meaning behind the reporter’s question. And Kit probably knew that too.
Funny thing is that he ended up that part of the interview with: “and I’m not coming back next season.”
That’s hilarious because no one ever asked him, if he’s coming back next season! Should we assume then we won’t be seeing Kit in season 6?! Lol
Sean C.,
Oh Sean, I’m at the edge of my seat to read his different, completely revamped answer! :p
Sister Kisser,
Branakin seduction! You mean with Mel as Palpatine?! She’s much too beautiful for that. Unless she’s really, really old and that ruby is making her young again. Hmmm. Crackpot theory time 😀
Wimsey,
In my opinion, Meera’s fine. She knows she’s in a relatively safe position and this will help her to deal with any anxiety. In relation to human companionship, I believe Bran spend only a few hours of the day with the training and must have some time to talk to her. She can talk to Hodor too, as Osha did, even without getting any response.
It’s a bit too much “conspiracy” for me to think that the media is covering up for the show. Quite frankly, I’d expect the opposite from them: if people were hedging on that question, then it would get played up.
But I also would be very surprised if many members of the entertainment media really know that this is a possibility. Beric Dondarion has not been on the show for two years: and that is a long time (and many, many series & films) ago. Fans joke about nobody really being dead until we see the body still for a while, but really that has not been the case on the show except for the wights. Even the Mountain was not dead, but simply in really bad shape before Maester Frankenstein got ahold of him.
Ah, well, the “how it’s written” I can totally understand. Sex isn’t romance, but George’s writing of sex does not in the least appeal to me. I’ve read sex scenes written by males and females that I’ve truly adored, but George’s stuff doesn’t even pique my interest. I imagine the scenes must resonate with some, but I’ve got nothing.
GhostCR,
To your comment about pictures taken inches in front of his face – I clicked the daily mail link posted earlier in this thread and it is a series of pics. It looks as if Kit is simply walking down the sidewalk and people are snapping away. One shows a girl trying to get as “next” to him as possible to have someone snap a pic. You almost see a smile being held back in that photo.
Conspiracy? Hardly.
(among the crush of flashing bulbs and media wonks shouting questions)
Media: Kit! Kit? Will your character be resurrected next season?
Kit: Hold on. Is that Donald? Donald? DONALD! Over here! How you been? Excuse me, media person. DONALD!
Media: erk
It’s just that easy and many variations serve just as well.
We do? that must be a book thing, because I don’t remember it in the show, unless it was Bronn asking Jaime how Jaime would like to die. But if it is a book thing, I wouldn’t mind knowing what it is.
In addition to the stellar cast, the caliber of Love Actually was strongly influenced by its fairly unique writing style, where you have half a dozen or so seemingly disparate plots just magically meld together as the movie progresses. That’s just fucking brilliant in my book. The dialogue and everything about the writing was phenomenal. I do like some rom coms, if I’m bored and want easy, silly fluff, but I would never consider Love Actually to be that. It’s made of much stiffer stuff than fluff.
So here’s my hot take on GRRMs new years announcement. It’s probably not original. I think that GRRM is running the 52 fake out on all of us. WoW is damn near finished and we’re gonna see it soon.
Ginevra,
C’mon you mean to tell me you didn’t need to take a cold shower right after reading “he thrusted so deep that you couldn’t tell who was who”
Oh Matthew, thank you for that. Anybody know what the song is and what artists did it? They showed Karsi for a brief second. Amazing how they can write a character who becomes so beloved within a matter of a few lines, that it’s heartbreaking to see her become a WW a few minutes later. I’d almost like to see her appear again as a WW, that’s how much I liked that performance.
and these days I’m all for stiffer stuff, dear.
That Wimsey. Such a vivid imagination he has when he reads!
(Actually, it is probably foreshadowing, but it could only be foreshadowing that Cersei will attempt to take her twin with her.)
Which reminds me of one of my favorite exchanges between Stannis and Shireen, from the “you are my daughter” exchange. It made me like Stannis a lot more. Until, of course, the SoB let Melisandre turn her into a campfire marshmallow:
Stannis: Are you lonely?
Shireen: Just bored.
Stannis: My father once told me that boredom indicated a lack of inner resources.
Shireen: Were you bored a lot, too?
Ginevra,
Well, I agree. George is an excellent writer and has some really strong points (characterization, worldbuilding, deconstruction of tropes) but almost all his sex scenes are frankly bad. Some of them are even cringey (fat pink mast, myrish swamp).
This interviewer asked if his spirit was going to return in any way, and I think that amounts to roughly the same thing. Jon said, “You’ll have to watch Season 6.” And I’m sure that would be his response to the come back to life question. Although it is a more precise question, I agree. Perhaps GoT screens questions ahead of time and won’t let anyone ask that question?
GRRM’s sex scenes are so so unsexy. Such a complete turnoff. His has serious weak spots in his writing, but the sex scenes are just a swirling black vortex of terrible.
Amazing, innit? I like my smut a bit more on the subtle side.
is that a good thing for us ?
Funnily enough, she actually already has. One of her early thoughts upon learning she was going to be on trial and that her life was in danger was basically to call him back from the Riverlands, force him into championing for her where he would face certain death because he now sucks at sword fighting (which she knows). Her mentality was literally, “If I’m going to die, he’s coming with me.” Luckily, Jaime wasn’t having any of that.
God of tits and wine,
You’re playing for the silver, brother. This is by far the most erotic, romantic line from any of the sex scenes in the books.
“Ten thousand of your children perished in my palm, Your Grace, she thought, slipping a third finger into Myr. Whilst you snored, I would lick your sons off my face and fingers one by one, all those pale sticky princes. You claimed your rights, my lord, but in the darkness I would eat your heirs.”
I definitely needed to pour bleach into my eyes… err, I mean take a cold shower the first time I read that.
Seriously though, if Winds ever comes out, I hope George will keep sex scenes to a strict minimum. They’re really not his forte… at all.
Matthew The Dragon knight,
Thanks for the link…I did not know this trailer was out.
Thronetender,
Karsi has turned into a wight, not a white walker.
Robb Snow,
Eww! this has to be the winner. I can’t remember reading this though, its been a long time since I read books 4/5.
God of tits and wine,
Ha! I had same thought. He’d totally pull that kind of twist. T-minus any day now!
Val’s exclusion from the show’s a disappointment. GRRM’s writing about her made me really interested in seeing who’d be cast.
Matthew The Dragon knight,
Thanks, Matthew! I needed that! 🙂
Yes, it is book only, although it could still happen on the show:
It’s the classic foreshadowing that our high school lit teachers (or was it even junior high school?) told us about: one of the characters flatout says what is going to happen, although not in a way that seems out-of-context with the general dialog. Or, as Berkely Breathed had as a running gag in a Bloom County comic series decades ago: “Foreshadowing: your guide to quality literature!”
That’s asking if there will be a ghost Jon, not if there will be a resurrected Jon! What I haven’t seen is any of interviewers ask him that. Cumsprite suggests that people have been shouting the question and it’s being ignored, but if that were happening, then certainly one of the many interviews with him would flatly ask him (or Benioff or Weiss): “Is Jon coming back from the dead” after Kit (or B or W) said “Jon is Dead.” And yet the closest we’ve come has been at least one question about Jon being a ghost and another about Jon appearing in flashbacks.
I am quite certain that I did not imagine those lines!
You must be using “soon” in geological time, then. 😎
Yeah, GRRM’s sex scenes could be used as readings for “Abstinence only” sex “education” classes: I mean, geez, if those don’t nuke your libido, nothing will!
(On the off-chance that there are any virgins present, it’s nowhere near as clunky sounding as GRRM makes it out to be! 😀 )
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RnxOyA1iWpg
Well, let’s see. One Dothraki Instagrammed his script. Another revealed the fate of his character. One has the voice of the movie previews guy, and another I can’t google pictures of at work. So, I’d say yes.
TormundsWoman,
Hahah the thought of “old Mel” as Palapatine interesting, but allow me to clarify- While reading Dance I was hoping either Bran or Jon (or both) were headed to the dark side and destined to bring down the wall…. so I was looking for anything. I was thinking it might be Bloodraven seducing Branakin (ala Palpatine- no, not in a sexual way)… In Jon’s case, I was expecting Val’s motives to be somewhat nefarious, and was looking for a “seduction” of the more common type. All crackpot, all the time….
Thank you again! LOL, it figures the name of the song would “Hell.” What a fitting use for it, too. Damn, the sound of this seems perfect when you’re driving in traffic in hot summer weather. It’s gonna blow out my car windows this summer..
And to the person who reminded me that the wights are the rambling, ragged dead and the white walkers are a little more, umm, upright and together? … thanks. I did know the difference at one time, I needed a refresher. at any rate, I want to see Karsi again.
Not sure, but the SAG awards are Saturday night. Hopefully some cast interviews and the trailer in the next couple of weeks.
The SAG awards are something to look forward to, can’t wait. Have it recorded in case I miss it. Really hope they announce that trailer, this wait is insane XD
Henry Gordon,
You mean Ygritte 2.0 ?
Alikat,
He’s probably contractually obligated to do so. I really don’t think it’s personal and that he thinks people are stupid.
Alikat,
I would love for the interviewer to say, “OK. Jon Snow is dead but how about Jon Targaryen? What’s he been up to?”
Emilia, Kit, Sophie, and Maisie, are all in LA. Hopefully we get some good interviews at the SAGs.
Alikat,
He doesn’t say he is not coming back, he said ‘Jon Snow’ is dead.
Doesn’t say anything about Jon Stark/Targaeryan
El-Bobbie,
It’ll probably just be the same old boring questions though. My sister-in-law, who lives in California, texted saying she was trying to get us tickets to the red carpet bleachers because her cousin in LA told her they’re free if you go this one website and apparently that was the case at one point in time but now it’s by charity auction with a very small window to bid and it was too late.
He didn’t deny that he has been filming for GoT last year. He only said what everyone knows, that Jon is dead. So, it’s confirmed that Jon Snow wull return in next season!
As well as all the other leads and several cast members that are nominated….. i don’t think they will say much more than “It will be great,watch it”
Henry Gordon,
I remember people saying that the actress playing Lagertha in Vikings would be good to be cast as Val. I watch and like that show and I fully agree with that choice. But I think the casting executives (or whatever their position is called) avoid hiring actors who are already identified by the audience with main characters in another successful show. But yeah… I wish Val had appeared in GOT
My feeling is that this may be an intentional attempt to make things seem realistic (rather than the fantasy you get from most sex scenes). GRRM wants sex (like the rest of what he portrays) to be primarily akward fumbling which is what a lot of sex really is like… Ultimately, normal people having sex is not going to be sexy to anyone else… Because we are doing it for ourselves (and our partners) rather than an audience.
Anyway that’s all to say that the sex in the books is indeed NOT sexy. Interestingly, the sexiest parts of the books (IMO) are actually the romantic elements, feelings characters have for each other, longing for each other or for some connection sexual or otherwise. And this is similar to RL too I think. The anticipation of what might happen is more enticing than the actual event.
Shy Lady Dragon,
She fits the image of Val perfectly. Age might be a problem though? There must be quite a bit of age gap between her and Kit Harington. Otherwise yeah, she is perfect for Val.
I think from a first person perspective our sex lives are usually satisfying and not clunky (I hope!) However, I don’ think anyone who was WATCHING me & my partner have sex would think it was particularly sexy. If you’ve ever watched real amateur porn (not “amateur” porn which is really pro) you’ll get an idea of what I mean. It’s usually much more funny than it is sexy. And ultimately, that’s what GRRM is giving us – a view into other “regular” people’s sex lives.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3422418/Kit-Harrington-arrives-LA-Game-Thrones-star-Rose-Leslie-amid-reports-acting-coupley-restaurant.html
Kit Harington, Sophie Turner and Rose Leslie at LA airport.
ghost of winterfell,
The article includes this quote about Jon: “His eyes were shown changing color as bled in the snow, suggesting he may have been transferring his consciousness into another creature…”
wat? I looked pretty damn hard at that last shot and I do not think his eyes changed color. Maybe it’s just the daily mail making sh*t up.
My vote is for the actual event being more enticing than the anticipation, though that definitely depends on the partner. When I was a virgin, I read Hemingway’s For Whom the Bell Tolls sex scene where “the earth moved,” and I thought all sex would be like that. Bless. When I lost my virginity, the truck hardly moved, much less the earth. Fortunately, that is not always the case. My husband and I have, on occasion, moved the earth with such euphoria that the mind temporarily separates itself from the body and the earth just moves.
Wouldn’t it be nice if George was being meta and intentionally writing bad sex because he wanted to create the perception of a third and awkward party? Given that these chapters are often from the perspectives of those having the sex, though, I doubt that is the case. I imagine most people write sex like they like it.
ghost of winterfell,
Ahhh Rose Leslie. Kit is one lucky guy. Part of me wish for a dream sequance with Ygritte.
Queenofthrones,
No his eyes did not change color. There was a change in lighting near the end of that shot, which was reflected in his eyes as the camera was zooming in. The article must be referring to that? Who knows, these sites are not really reliable, are they.
Wtf? I feel like I just walked in on my parents having sex……
Exactly the same happened to me. Bad, bad Hemingway, to deceive inocent virgins 🙂
I’m quite glad you have an awesome sex life (me too!), but no offense, I’m guessing that a third party viewing it would not really see it that way. Objectively speaking, I think, most people do some goofy-ass shit in bed. It absolutely feels amazing and like super serious and stuff when you’re into it, but when you think about it later from an outside perspective it’s like “WTF did I just say/think/do that didn’t even make sense”.
There was a comedian (cant’ remember who) that did this bit once about how he and his GF were having sex and he suddenly said something like “OMG My Dick feels like CORN” and she rolled with it somehow and only afterward was he like “…wtf is wrong with me?”. Not too different from “Myrish swamp” when you think about it.
Queenofthrones,
Same. I enjoy the dynamics of the build up, anticipation, the first passionate kiss etc. Usually anything much more than that it’s pfft go get a room lol, unless it’s subtle and leaves something to the imagination. Think library scene in Atonement or even Dany with Drogo. That’s why I’m a sucker for movies set in a different era like Becoming Jane or Pride and Prejudice.
Queenofthrones,
Imho the sexiest scene in ASOIAF is one where actual sex is absent: the bathtub shared by Brienne and Jaime. But I can remember also some hot sex scenes: between Asha (and Qarl the Maid, I think), Jon-Ygritte.
Shy Lady Dragon,
I agree bath scene, yes. It’s the vulnerability of both characters that really gets me there. If Brienne and Jaime ever DO have sex I guarantee its’ gonna be less sexy than the bath.
And Asha… you mean “her cunt was the world?” I found that line to be kinda goofy and also the scene was akward to read given the rape-y elements (I know it was just a game for them, but it’s presented within her erotic imagination so that’s not clear at first what’s going on). If you happen to share those particular kinks I suppose you might find it sexy? That’s just it though, it’s a really personal thing which I really think is what GRRM is going for. Sex isn’t performance art.
Jon Ygritte was sort of adorable IMO. Especially when he was like “I WILL NEVER LET THIS HAPPEN AGAIN… It happened twice more that night and again the next morning” haha…
Rygar,
Rygar… I am your mother!
Queenofthrones,
I don’t remember that line, but even that, imo, can be symbolical – a completely different tonality, but with the same meaning with the Hemingway quotation referenced above. I don’t think the Henry Miller sex scenes to be porn, although they are crude. And, when both adults have consented, clothes tearing can add hotness to the scene while read or watched in a film (in real life I wouldn’t like my clothes torn).
Welp, I haven’t read all of this thread, but I have read enough to know that we REALLY NEED A TRAILER or something else to occupy our minds! 😉
About poor Kit and these interviews: he’s not “lying,” he’s doing his job. There’s someone up-thread that is incensed by that–puleese! This is entertainment, not rl!
RE: the sex discussion: I think GRRM writes his sex scenes to reveal character and, in keeping with his messed up world, very rarely does it go well for all involved. Just like in rl, the earth-moving moments are not as often as one might like (but they are there).
Anyway, couldn’t resist chiming in since I’ve just been lurking for a while [waves to all]. Cheers, gang!
Rygar,
“How old are you boy?”
Psst you might want to leave anyways…your mom’s here.
Geralt of Rivia,
She’s one lucky girl! Haha
Corn! Corn! LMAO
My favorite romantic comedy is Zach and Miri Make a Porno. In fact, that may be the only one I’ve sat through. Talk about awkward sex intended specifically to be watched- that shit is hilarious!
Given I respect the opinions of so many of you, maybe I should go watch Love, Actually.
Geralt of Rivia,
She did go to Belfast once in August while shooting was on, even though it was most probably just to accompany Kit!
Ginevra,
Queenofthrones,
I agree that George might be trying to write the sex scenes as more realistic, but he often misses gritty realism and ends up with silliness. And yes, sex can be very silly. I imagine Ned and Catelyn had some silly sex. In fact, I sort of imagine that Ned was probably a bit gassy in bed. But that’s just me.
But GRRM ends up writing silly where it isn’t supposed to be silly, like Cersei/Taena. And don’t get me started on “do me now.” Of course, that wasn’t supposed to read as sexy, but it shouldn’t have been so silly either.
Yeah..losing my virginity sucked, but after about the third time I hit earth moving territory. Yay sex!
Shy Lady Dragon,
Jaime and Brienne in the bath is very romantic but not nearly as sexually charged as their fight on the bridge. Those two scenes are some of GRRM’s best romantic writing.
HotPinkLipstick,
Oh, yes, indeed! Fighting on the bridge, how could I forget! Steamy 😉
Sister Kisser,
I love Zack and Miri and its two protagonists! I remember that scene LOL
You certainly should watch Love, Actually, it shows so many sides of that feeling with a realistic, but funny approach (except for some cases when it’s heartbreaking) and the actors are great.
Thank you for starting off my day with a big laugh! 🙂
ghost of winterfell,
Probably,but how cool would that be. Just imagine Jon in the afterlife. Most likely nothing like this exists in got world, but let’s see…
Jon: Cool, so that’s what it looks like after death. Better than i thought.
Ned: Welcome nephew, we need to talk.
Jon: Nephew? No,i’m your son.
At which point Ygritte shows up: You know nothing,Jon Snow.
Jon: FFS. Not here,not here.I can’t escape that frickin line,not even after my death.
Deesensfan,
Haha. From a certain point of view. They’re both extremely lucky,but a bit of surprise that Kit is going to SAG Awards.
Who are you?
Geralt of Rivia,
Lol, no he just can’t escape that line 🙂 .
If you like Zack and Miri, there is a subplot in Love, Actually that you will really enjoy, I think (I think it’s my favourite, in fact, although it’s hard to tell with that movie).
!!!!NOBODY SPOIL!!!!!
Shy Lady Dragon,
Yaga,
I will have to check it out- and soon, before somebody spoils it!
edit: this train has run off the rails. Where the F*** is the new trailer??
Sister Kisser,
The goddamn plane has crashed into the mountain!!!!
YgriTte,
You need someone older and wiser telling you what to do. I am seventeen going on eighteen. I’ll take care of you.
where are the spoilers
spoiler
Rygar,
LMAO
Indeed. This work has been comended as being strongly vaginal, which makes some men uncomfortable.
ghost of winterfell,
I don’t dispute that those things happened, Ghost of Winterfell. I guess my response to his evolution is “Who cares?”, and “So What?”.
There is still something unsatisfying about him, that I can’t quite put my finger on. It might be that he hasn’t suffered enough, which is why I always wanted him to become a Wight creature, or Wight-like creature. From where Jon has come from, he seems destined to end up in shit’s creek, without a boat…somehow.
Something BIG has to happen to him, for me, or else it’s just more yawns.
-cheers
Wimsey,
Maybe it’s better to say The Hound became like – or better than – family, to Arya. And, I don’t think she could have killed him any more than Warden Nedd could have chopped Jon’s head off in a hypothetical desertion.
She couldn’t stay with him. She couldn’t heal him. But, she could leave him the chance that someone could find him. How was she going to silence the one voice of truth in her life?
That’s how I see it, anyway.
HotPinkLipstick,
The show depicts folks in baths and taking bird baths a lot. I don’t think Medieval folks bathed that much. So, regarding sex scenes, all I can think of is “How long has it been since those two really had a bath?”
On that topic, Cersai is being treated by Qyburn for unnamed symptoms. Jaime seemed to think it might be gynocological in nature, showing surprise that she let Pycelle claw at her thighs. Cersai is about 45 now, right? Could it be menopause issues, or sexually transmitted disease which might lead to infertility?
Either would be a blow, seeing as how her children are dying off.
I am a little shocked kit is going to the sags
Woah! Lovin the sex talk here! Hahaha
ghost of winterfell,
Ok..
On more reflection, I think I’ve got it:
Jon, no doubt, has been busy, busy doing things. But, so far, he hasn’t become something; or, at least, not that I can see.
It seemed, at the end of season 5, that he was about to BECOME something, instead of just DOING stuff. I just don’t know what he’s become yet. We’ll find out when the new season airs.
JCDavis,
I would say an equal number of people couldn’t kill someone(they care for), no matter how much they begged. But, we already know Arya isn’t against killing, philosophically…so it has to be how she feels about The Hound, in particular.
She did admit to the faceless man(his name escapes me now) that she did not hate The Hound. This was when he woke her up in the middle of the night to play the game of faces. Arya made a series of statements, and he would hit her whenever she lied. On her staement that she left The Hound to suffer and die because she hated him, he told Arya that she lies to herself and the Many-faced God and gave her a whack with his stick!
And…rather than admitting that this was a lie, she said she didn’t want to play the game anymore.
I’ll look it up to get the exact statement.
ghost of winterfell,
Wimsey,
There is some evidence of Arya’s true feeling about The Hound. It’s from season 5 episode 6. She’s playing the game of faces with Jacqen. He hits her whenever she says something she doesn’t believe. The topic of The Hound comes up:
Arya: A man called the Hound. Sandor Clegane. He tried to sell me, but was wounded in a fight. He begged me to kill him, but I wouldn’t. I left him in the mountains to die. I wanted him to suffer. I hated him!
….Jacqen hits her
Arya: I hated him!
….Jacqen hits her again
Arya: That’s not a lie!
Jacqen: A girl lies to me, to the Many-Faced God, to herself. Does she truly
want to be no one?
Arya: Yes.
…Jacqen hits her again
Arya: I’m not playing this stupid game anymore!
Sister Kisser,
The word itself makes some men uncomfortable. Vagina.
Thronetender,
Yeah, that was a hilarious exchange. Another person who’s fond of saying “You are my ——“: Roose Bolton
And, we know how much his pronouncements are worth.
Anon,
Actually, bathing was much more common in the Medieval period than the stereotype, even among peasants. They didn’t have the kinds of soap we have now, of course.
¨
White walkers are trying to kill him, his friends/mentors getting killed, only girl he ever loved died in his arms and it was his responsibility, betrayed by his own men, grew up without knowing his mother, he probably thought that his two younger brothers are dead, Arya thought to be wed for Ramsay, Father and Brother murdered. Uncle dissapeared somewhere.
Yes, he never suffered enough.
Lysarra,
Here here well said
It’s not so much the sex itself so much as how crass and overly detailed it usually is. And not only that, but how unnecessary most of it is as well. I mean, did anyone really need to know what Tyrion’s manhood looks like in such detail? Did we really need to read how Cersei liked to eat Robert’s “pale sticky princes” after they had sex?
It all comes off as a bit juvenile, and dare I say perverted. In fact, combined with some of the things George has said on his blog and his orbiting of Sibel Kekilli, it makes me think he might be a total creep IRL. Just sayin’.
Anon,
First of all, regarding who cares about his evolution, I would say lots of people?!
Secondly, while I completely disagree that he has not suffered enough ( as Geralt of Rivia said) I agree there has been no drastic transformation in him, in his core he is essentially the same person. He is similar to Sansa in this regard, inspite of all the horrors she has borne, she is also essentially the same person she has been. Both these characters are on a slow burn in this aspect, and that is why lots of people are expecting some major shifts in their characters in the coming season. The events at the end of S5, where they were at their lowest will be the catalyst for that change. However for me, turning into an undead zombie is the worst and least interesting outcome for Jon.
Character evolution is why people watch these sorts of series. In a big way, the soap operas won a long time ago: “plot-driven” TV gave way to “character-driven” TV, and series like Thrones are the current step in this evolution.
You hit the nail on the head here, I think. Yes, the characters have to change. However, part of that change is refining who they are: we go from Jon or Daeny or Arya or Tyrion having a general set of principles, and we then see: 1) the prices they pay for those principles; 2) how those principles evolve to accommodate each other and reality; and, 3) how the characters wind up (in some ways) more Jon Snow (or Daenrys Targaryen or Tyrion Lannister or Ayra Stark) than they began. And if we look at the hit TV series of recent years, then we can see that this is typical of what happens to the primary characters: they “burn away” some aspects of their character over the course of the series, but wind up magnifying other aspects. And I think that we are going to see that with the main characters here, too.
And I quite agree: if Jon turns into a zombie or a god, then we’ll lose Jon: and we’ll lose a big chunk of the story. We need fins to turn into feet, not a fish to turn into a spaceship.
Rygar,
You mean, coitus?
Robb Snow,
Forgive my ignorance but what in the world are “pale sticky princes”?
And what does Orbiting Sibel Kekilli mean?
I have a feeling I’d have a much different view of George had I read the books! That kinds of talk would pull me right out of the story.
Wimsey,
Agreed…you explain it much better!
Rygar,
I’m a free woman! I know how to take care of meself. Been livin’ in the wilderness all me life.
That said, call me when you turn 18 Jone snerw.
Ygritte,
I’m not entirely sure if you’re serious or not, but I’ll answer anyway. “Pale sticky princes” is how Cersei describes Robert’s semen in the excerpt from one of her chapters in AFfC I posted earlier. The books are full of these… colorful wordings and descriptions in the sex scenes. They’re gross and awkwardly hilarious at the same time.
Sibel Kekilli is Shae’s actress in the show, and to me George seems to be a bit fond of her. He and Sibel were in an episode of some German show where he shows her around his house and kinda dotes on her. He also joked in a blog post several years ago that he needed to take a cold shower after watching auditions for Shae.
I could be reading into it too much, but it all just gives off some weird vibes to me.
Robb Snow,
Yes I was serious, thanks for explaining! I’m a bit slow on the uptake at times and didn’t equate “princes” to semen lol. As for Kikelli, I heard she did porn before her GOT part. I’m wondering now if George recruited her for the show because he liked her “work” in that lol. Or was she an established actress otherwise?
yGrItTe,
I think she did porn for a while but got into legit acting later on. She’s even won some awards for her acting, so she had some good credentials prior to GoT.
I’m sure Georgie boy has familiarized himself with all of her work though.
yGrItTe,
Sibel has played main parts in two German films, Head-On/Gegen die Wand (2004) and When We Leave/ Die Fremde (2010) and got awards for both of them. I liked both films and I’m a fan of Fatih Akin, the director of Head-On/Gegen die Wand.
Shy Lady Dragon,
Two awards? Cool. I know the consensus around here was that she wasn’t very good in the part of Shae so I thought perhaps it was her first real acting role. So is she German? My impression was more along the lines of Spain, probably due to her accent in Thrones.
Ygritte,
She was born in Germany, in my hometown to be precise, but her parentage is Turkish.
Newbietothegame,
I haven’t known that you are German. Have you seen the two films I was referring to? Do you like Fatih Akin? My favourite film of his is Im Juli.
Shy Lady Dragon,
I am originally from Germany, but lived more than half of my life in the USA (I am an “elderly child”). I have not seen either of the films.
Her accent wasn’t Spanish at all. It was German.
Sean C.,
You neglected to say precisely what the ‘stereotype’ is. Is it bathing once per week? Once per month? I’m curious.
Geralt of Rivia,
How, precisely, is Sansa the same person she has been? You didn’t say.
There are undead zombies, and then there are undead zombies. The Wights are vastly different to the White-Walkers. And, resurrected men are different still.
Whatever happens to Jon next, it must make up for 5 years of personal stagnancy.
Nobody wants to watch Jon wander hither and non through the North, doing this, that and the other, while remaining essentially the same, for another 3 years.
Geralt of Rivia,
Geralt, what you’ve written is outrage, not refutation. Here goes….
1. White-Walkers are trying to kill everybody.
2. A loved one dying in your arms is more than most people get. She died, not him. How was he responsible for her death?
3. Jon grew up privileged, despite not knowing his mother.
4. How is it unique to Jon to have 2 dead brothers? They supposedly died, not him. How often does he mention them?
5. Jon’s problems pale in comparison to the men about him; that is, up until the last 2 minutes of season 5.
Other people have died. Other people have suffered and despite Jon’s busy work – he stagnates. Any theoretical change in him remains hidden.
I’m curious to hear what you think his hidden ‘evolution’ is.
Wimsey,
More evidence that Arya didn’t want The Hound to suffer:
Season 4 episode 7, at about 28 minutes into the episode, The Hound is trying to sew up his neck wound. Arya suggests that he burn away the dead flesh. He is frightened and tells her about how his brother burned him. She offers to clean and sew the wound instead, and he accepts.
If Arya wanted The Hound to suffer, this was an opportunity to let his wound fester and kill him slowly; or, to light him on fire while he slept.
…more?
Wimsey,
What evidence do you have that human is to zombie(walker), as fish is to spaceship? You didn’t say, precisely.
JCDavis,
I think the little brother may be Gregor Clegane, The Mountain. I don’t think the prophesy specifies that it will be Cersai’s brother, does it? And does “little” denote age, or size, or something else? It’s thought that Sandor is the younger of the Clegane brothers, but doesn’t Gregor look a lot younger to you? He does, to me.
Qyburn created that beast, Franken-Mountain. Qyburn is soft-spoken and mild, but remember, he was found strapped to a cart, injured and bleeding, among dead bodies at a castle that The Mountain sacked, on Lannister orders! Why on earth would he want to save The Mountain?!
I don’t imagine that Qyburn loves Cersai Lannister. He may want something from her, but he doesn’t love her. The beast he created responds to his commands, and he must have cut it’s tongue out so it can’t speak.
It’s plausible that when the time comes, when Cersai pushes Qyburn too far, he’ll give the order to attack her.
That’s my theory.
Robb Snow,
I didn’t know this. That is kinda weird.
Anon,
I don’t know what you are smoking, but you need to stop. You are obviously not thinking straight, the Mountain is the Older if the Clegane brothers. I am not even going to address all the other remarks.
You obviously don’t know what you are talking about.
Newbietothegame,
I know what you’re smoking, Newbie. You just smoked Nona, drawkcab style.
ask him if jon stark is dead
Luka Nieto,
Have relatives from Germany who speak English and they don’t sound like she did. But I guess just like in the US an accent can be different depending on what part of the country you’re in.
Newbietothegame,
I don’t think the relative age of the Clegane brothers is discussed in the show, if memory serves; I could be wrong on that. The prophesy about little brother is from the book only.
That leaves the show free to play with their ages. In any event, it’s a very odd choice to have the new Gregor look much younger than his rather ragged looking brother, Sandor.
Jon Snow dead?
Kit: “Indubitably.”