First images of Sand Snakes and surprising sightings in Seville

Snakes 1

It’s been an exciting week for Game of Thrones fans, with our first looks at new characters such as Trystane Martell, Areo Hotah, and Doran Martell, and now we have our first glimpse of the Sand Snakes in costume.

*SPOILERS beneath the cut*
Jessica Henwick, Keisha Castle-Hughes, and Rosabell Laurenti-Sellers, the actresses who portray Nymeria, Obara, and Tyene Sand, were reportedly filming a fight scene this week, during Alcázar of Seville filming. We can see in these photos that the actresses, along with their stunt doubles, are wearing light Dornish armor and carrying weapons.

Henwick, who portrays Nymeria, is front and center above, and below next to her similarly whip-wielding double.

Snakes

Snakes 2

Actor and Double

Snake Whip

 

Also spotted this week at the Alcázar of Seville was a surprising sight: Michiel Huisman (Daario Naharis) and Iain Glen (Jorah Mormont), just outside the Jardines de Murillo.

Daario

Jorah

Given that it’s unlikely Daario and Jorah are both in Dorne, it appears that portions of the Alcázar are being used for Daenerys’ storyline. Some of the sunny patios and rooms of the palace would be suitable for Meereen.

Another interesting tidbit comes from El Pais. According to the newssite, during the filming of the Jaime Lannister-in-Dorne scene featured in several publications this week, the reporters saw another actor on the set they were familiar with from the show.  The reporters were told not to reveal who it was that they saw, because “No one knows that this character is in this scene – it would be a spoiler!”

203 responses

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    1. Wouldn’t mind some sand in my crotch from those.

      Are those nipples on those breastsplates? Clooneygate.

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    2. krtmd,

      That’s a female crew-member, clearly dressed in modern clothing, seated exactly in the same position as Indira Varma in one of the pictures —so basically she’s being a body double so that the camera can be positioned correctly. We don’t know who the mystery character is. But it is a male character, which this article omits despite the “El Pais” report making it quite clear.

      My guess? Varys. As I said in one of the previous articles, it gives him something to do after Tyrion gets kidnapped, which we know will happen in ep. 3, although they’ll have to explain why he wouldn’t just keep going to Meereen. With Aegon gone, if they still want Varys’s plan to have a double twist, allying him with Doran would make sense, since even in the books their aims aren’t disparate.

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    3. Fedejru,

      That’s not a secret, not even in mainstream press. The production wouldn’t bother telling the journalists not to reveal Jerome Flinn’s presence there and then let him be seen entering the Alcázar without efforts to hide him, or let him walk around Seville. It sounds crazy, but keeping an actor’s presence secret if they really think it’s worth it is not so odd, even if it ruins the actor’s aspirations for sight-seeing —it’s a job, after all. Jaime or Bronn being there is a spoiler in the sense that it differs from the books and it’s unknown information for show-watchers, but it’s not a revelation.

      The enigmatic Spider being in Dorne, however… well, that’d be news. Other characters fit the bill too, I guess. But my bet is Varys.

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    4. According to the newssite, during the filming of the Jaime Lannister-in-Dorne scene featured in several publications this week, the reporters saw another actor on the set they were familiar with from the show. The reporters were told not to reveal who it was that they saw, because “No one knows that this character is in this scene – it would be a spoiler!”

      I hope they don’t mean Bronn.

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    5. Those Sandsnake costumes look goddamn awful. Why are they all wearing the same thing? Is giving each one a separate look and personality too much for the poor casual tv viewer? His brain’s gonna explode if he’s asked to care about one more original person, so they make three sand clones? And you just know that’s how D&D feel about it.

      Everything leaked so far on S5 has been one step forward and three back. This right here is a leap off the balcony.

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    6. Are we certain that is Nymeria’s double? I ask because when I enlarge the picture (thanks, again, for letting me know that was possible, abyss), the darker fabric above the head-wrap is in a different position on both of them, the drapery is folded slightly differently beneath their chins, and the knot on the sides of their heads is different, too.

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    7. Renly’s Peach,

      Yeah, like they’re going to be wearing that the whole season. I’m not a fan of the boob-plate, especially because the cone-shape makes it look like the armor has nipples (it doesn’t; it’s just a sharp edge), but I’m not worried. Whatever else you think of the show, I hope you agree that the costume department hasn’t been a disappointment so far. I’d bet that they’ll have their own distinctive look for most of the season, and personality as well. I wonder how you divined that “that’s how D&D feel about it.” Oh, “you just know.” I see. Well, we’ll have to wait and see, but if they are bothering to introduce these characters, I don’t think they’ll be essentially clones.

      Some people seem to worry for no good reason. What I see here is a ridiculous-looking armor. You see the downfall of the Sand Snake characters, and a “leap off the balcony” for your hopes for Season 5. That’s so pessimistic that I hope you were just being hyperbolic.

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    8. Turncloak:
      Nipples on a breastplate confirmed!

      Odd choice indeed.

      To quote from the post:

      The reporters were told not to reveal who it was that they saw, because “No one knows that this character is in this scene – it would be a spoiler!”

      Why is this character’s identity considered a spoiler and not the entire “Jaime in Dorne” plot? None of it is in the books. I am assuming that this revised Dorne story arc is of major importance.

      As to the identity of the mystery character…

      I agree with posters above. I think it is Varys. Why else send him off with Tyrion if he doesn’t have other duties to attend to, especially now that Aegon seems to have been cut?

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    9. I’m digging the head wraps! And the possibility of a Spider in the desert!!!!

      Varys is the most logical, but any other guesses? C’mon, get wild! I’ll start:

      Gendry. OR! Brienne.

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    10. Renly’s Peach,

      Talk about an exaggeration. If you look closely, actually look, they’re all relatively different- as different as Dornish female armor is going to get, anyway. The only thing that’s a copy-paste is the headdress, which might be to prevent hair from getting into the eyes in fights. And those are just their fighting clothes- their day-to-day outfits won’t be leather armor, and they’re bound to be more distinct.

      And I’m sure I’m the thousandth person to say this, but I don’t care. :poop:

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    11. Randa Noyce,

      In addition to Varys, Gendry was my other thought, although Varys makes a lot more sense.

      As far as the breast-plate nipples, I don’t like how they look, but when I think about it, I like the idea. Not only is it a nod to the histories/legends of women fighting bare-breasted, if you think of how men are (not a bash, just an observation), they’re bound to be at least momentarily distracted by the sight. That could prove an advantage in a fight!

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    12. Renly’s Peach,

      I lost my wood for season 5 after seeing those costumes. They will take me out of every scene they appear in, which will ruin every episode they are a part of. Congrats Tweedle D and Tweedle Dumb, you ruined yet another part of ASOIAF.

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    13. Considering that they took all the Sand Snakes and removed all their personal characterization and traits and essentially turned them all into the same carbon copy, it’s only fitting that they should all wear the same shitty costume.

      The Dorne arc will be an absolute mess.

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    14. Nymeria Warrior Queen: Are we certain that is Nymeria’s double?

      Yeah I am. Costume’s basically identical, but especially her hair- they’ve given the double Henwick’s long, dark braided hair. And there’s the whip of course. Bullwhips are difficult to use, it’s expected they’d have a double for that.

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    15. Sand Snake pictures:Now can we all finally move on with our lives?!

      On a sidenote, they loook….well…very bland to me.

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    16. Hermann,

      Please can you give me the scripts you obviously have? Or did you just time-traveled to April 2015? I hope you see my point.

      Anyway, even the casting call differentiated them more than enough (yes, less than the books in one single way —Tyene uses weapons—, but as much in every other sense), so why would you think the actual show would be less complex than that? Speculations are fine; I have plenty myself, but preemptively stating a whole story line will be a mess based on nothing but a shitty armor and your own imagination is going a tad too far in terms of speculation.

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    17. Sue the Fury: Yeah I am. Costume’s basically identical, but especially her hair- they’ve given the double Henwick’s long, dark braided hair. And there’s the whip of course. Bullwhips are difficult to use, it’s expected they’d have a double for that.

      I’m just accustomed to doubles being absolutely identical for consistency in editing. Maybe things just got a little askew during the break, and got adjusted before the cameras rolled, again. You know far more than I, so I defer to you.

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    18. It’s obviously Jon Snow in Dorne. How none of you have thought of it yet is beyond me, Another brilliant D&D original story, can’t wait!

      The Sand Snakes look fine to me. Besides they’re all hot, so who cares.

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    19. jentario,

      Other people here have made the same comments unironically, so I don’t blame anyone for thinking Tyrion Pimpslap was being serious.

      Just look at the conclusions other people have magically arrived at based solely on these armors and other tiny glimpses we’ve gotten about this storyline: “The Dorne arc will be an absolute mess”, or the next one, in which each sentence makes a gigantic leap of logic to the next: “Why are they all wearing the same thing? Is giving each one a separate look and personality too much for the poor casual tv viewer? His brain’s gonna explode if he’s asked to care about one more original person, so they make three sand clones? And you just know that’s how D&D feel about it. Everything leaked so far on S5 has been one step forward and three back. This right here is a leap off the balcony.” Yes, from “shitty armor” to “Season 5 is ruined” in five sentences. Considering that, Tyrion Pimpslap’s comment could easily be completely devoid of irony. It says much about a the exaggeration and pessimism being employed in these comments when they match someone trying to be hilariously hyperbolic.

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    20. The look more like Sand People than Sand Snakes.
      Maybe it’s the fact that the walk single file to hide their numbers.

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    21. If D&D have “ruined” this show so much as half the people on this site suggest, than why has GoT garnered 4 straight Best Drama noms, is most watched show in HBO history, individually changed the course of TV (streaming service) and has increased ASOIAF book series sales over 6000%? Oh and not to mention enabled sites like these to exist.

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    22. jentario:
      And those are just their fighting clothes- their day-to-day outfits won’t be leather armor, and they’re bound to be more distinct.

      How do you know that? I said how do you know that? Did you read the script? What’s that behind you, is that the script? They’re coming out of an indoor set; why are they all wearing battle armor inside the palace?

      Don’t make me use my Tyene Sand double daggers to attack you, my mother is Ellaria herself.

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    23. Renly’s Peach: They’re coming out of an indoor set; why are they all wearing battle armor inside the palace?

      Hm… I must have missed the video and/or photos that give any indication of the SS filming inside the palace.

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    24. Shane:
      If D&D have “ruined” this show so much as half the people on this site suggest, than why has GoT garnered 4 straight Best Drama noms, is most watched show in HBO history, individually changed the course of TV (streaming service) and has increased ASOIAF book series sales over 6000%?Oh and not to mention enabled sites like these to exist.

      Awards are not indicative of quality, just popularity. And popularity is not indicative of quality either.

      HOWEVER, a more important question to ask is:

      If you think they’ve screwed up so much that you shit on everything they do, then WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE?!

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    25. TheLizardKing, Not to mention there are outdoor courtyards within the Alcázar that would probably suit small fight scenes just fine (and provide more protection from the press). Or they could be arriving straight from a fight to report to Doran, etc. The possibilities are endless!

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    26. GeekFurious: Awards are not indicative of quality, just popularity. And popularity is not indicative of quality either.

      Not that I necessarily disagree with you there, but if it’s not those things what is indicative of quality? I’m not asking to be a smart ass, but only because those kind of statements have been made pretty much since the beginning of criticism of art (for the sake of not getting into a whole other debate, I think we can agree that GoT is some form of art) and so far nobody has been able to come up with a good answer to the “What is indicative of quality?” question. – If you ask me then awards and popularity may not be indicative of quality, but they certainly can be a hint towards it.

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    27. Mine is the Furry:
      The look more like Sand People than Sand Snakes.
      Maybe it’s the fact that the walk single file to hide their numbers.

      Yeah, but those blast points are too accurate for Sand People. Then again the stormtroopers never hit anything since.

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    28. I actually haven’t minded any of the Dorne stuff up to this point… but yeah, I don’t particularly care for those Sand Snake costumes. Hopefully, those aren’t their usual wear, but just fighting outfits or something.
      Of course, at the end of the day, they’re just costumes, so they don’t really matter that much… but it does make me worry that D&D may portray their personalities too similarly, seeing as they are given more-or-less the same costume.
      Basically, I’m worried Unsullied won’t be able to differentiate between the 3 of them.

      Also, Varys being in Dorne (assuming it IS Varys) may support the idea that Trystane will be Aegon in the show. This would help condense things a bit by merging Varys’ plan with Doran’s, and would allow them to spend more of Tyrion’s journey developing his relationship with Jorah (one of the things I’m most looking forward to this season).

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    29. Tyrion Pimpslap:
      Renly’s Peach,

      Which double daggers are we talking about, and will you bring your mother and hers’ as well?

      Tyene Sand is an expert dagger master. Ellaria taught her how to wield daggers with her teeth when she was six so she didn’t have to take no misogynistic bull from no man. GRL PWR!
      It’s all explained in episode 4.

      Greatjon of Slumber:
      Renly’s Peach,

      And also why are they getting on a BUS of all things? WTF is going on in Dorne??

      Not once anywhere does GRRM write about bus transportation south of the Reach. The terrains don’t allow for wheels like that to travel anywhere. More D&D garbage.

      I’m gonna piss in their grave one day.

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    30. If not

      Varys, then I’m going with either Gendry or Jaqen

      as the mystery guest.

      TheLizardKing,

      That’s what I’d like to know.

      Darkstar was my first thought with the all-black garb. “I am of the night.”

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    31. Their armor is similar to what Oberyn wore in his duel with the Mountain. Not sure what the uproar is about. Do people actually think they will wear those all of the time?

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    32. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      Exactly. Folks should remember that Cersei’s rocked similar yet far less protective styles before too. Also there was that woman archer in a chariot in Gladiator who had boob armour and still seemed pretty fearsome (until she got chopped in half IIRC).

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    33. Absolutely atrocious armour design. So disappointing, especially after the gorgeous designs for Brienne and the Kingsguard armours. Boobplate, WTF? Really? GoT should be better than fucking Xena, jesus.

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    34. People , you are taking too seriously the words of a Spanish journalist, honestly as a Spaniard: that’s always a mistake…

      And keep in mind that with all the photos of actors with fans (they literally wait in the hotel door for them) there is almost no chance that another well known member of the cast is there and nobody has noticed..

      We know now that Mereen actors were shooting in the Alcazar so it was probably one of them or just a joke.

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    35. These costumes are terrible. I seriously hope that this is actually some sort of riding wear, not their “normal” costumes.

      And again, what Elio and Linda said: it’s as if they combined all four of the main Sand Snakes into one character…then split it apart into three separate actors playing the same role. I’m hoping this turns out well in the end.

      As for Varys…yeah, I was hoping we’d get a more informative Oberyn-Varys scene explaining “We’re both on Team Targaryen”….but I do guess that would have been a bit obvious.

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    36. Greenjones,

      Hmm that is very interesting. He seemed like the obvious assumption, but if not…I’m not sure. For me, it seems Dorne is getting more and more intriguing. So many bits of new info are throwing wrenches into my expectations.

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    37. Seriously, enough complaining already. That armour is perfectly fine, it looks like a female version of Oberyn’s armour. If you’re worried the Sand Snakes will be clones, may I refer you to the original casting call? They were all we’ll differentiated then.

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    38. Crackpot. Mayhaps the citadel has been relocated near to/to Dorne on the show, it would save having to find yet another filming location. A certain black brother perhaps?

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    39. Let’s break it down, now.

      Tyene is now not the daughter of a septa, but the daughter of Ellaria and Oberyn, giving Ellaria one whole extra child. This changes her book character from a pious one to…well, the teenage product of Ellaria and Oberyn. She’s gonna use weapons of steal and genitals.

      Obara is not as stout physically as her book iteration, but probably the exact character from the book…ffs, we’re getting the spear story.

      Nymeria sounds exactly the same as her book version…which is chick with whip. Can’t blame that one on D&D, but I’d bet a bottle of Dornish red they shade her a little more, as they have every other character ever.

      Elio and Linda can suck my clit and balls. Sorrynotsorry.

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    40. The Dragon Demands,

      Elio and Linda were being awfully preemptive with that critique (and very focused on the fact that they changed their ethnicities, which IMO is a pretty stupid bone to pick with the casting choices). Shifting around who uses what weapon HAS NOTHING to do with characterisation. That will be in the writing and the acting. Making Tyene more martial is a change but her casting call and the mention in Obara’s audition that she’s losing to Nymeria while they train implies that she’s not on par with her half-siblings when it comes to fighting, which makes that particular alteration less substantive. I’m sure, since we’ll be getting more of them than we have in the books so far, that there will be room to make them more than just “badass chicks”.

      I understand a lot of people don’t like them in the books either but the show will get us used to them while we wait for TWOW, which apparently features them a great deal (as per Grrm at SDCC).

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    41. Greenjones,

      Add to that, when you consider where we left them in Dance, each on a particular assignment via Doran and his plotty plot plots, it makes a lot of sense to shift focus to these characters whose next steps will impact various parts of the story’s endgame. The book will probably get this shading in as we progress with these plots, but the show couldn’t just touch on each of these ladies a bit and wait til later to dive deeper into their characters. If they’re on screen, they need to matter to the audience immediately if you want them to be invested in their future roles.

      And I’m sure they’re both lovely people, but their opinions give me no other option but to respond with my nethers in their face.

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    42. Morrigan,

      Brienne and Kingsguard armors are truly gorgeous, but it would be completely ridiculous for Sand Snakes to wear something similar. I like Sand Snakes armors, they are simple, practical, feminine, but not stupidly sexy. Btw. there is no breast or any other plate on their armor.

      Those comments about SS being same …. i have hard time to believe it is not intentional trolling. Are all members of Nightwatch same because they wear same armors? Do you expect SS will wear armor all the time? Do you think they cast 3 of them and than give them same personality? Seriously…

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    43. GaiusB,

      Exactly. The preemptive hate is just maddening. How about we all watch the show first! 😉

      These costumes are a mix of several components we’ve seen; Oberyn’s leather armour, Ellaria’s outfit during that Trial by Combat and the Dornishmen we saw on the Kingsroad in ep. 401 with turbans etc. Given what’s been established about how the Dornish dress, this look makes perfect sense.

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    44. I don’t like the armor much, but it’s not a new design. As others have pointed out, it’s basically a female version of what Oberyn was wearing at the trial by combat. Did he wear that the whole season? Then don’t worry about the Sand Snakes (though I still don’t like the boob armor.) If you are still worried that their similar appearance means they are consolidating their personalities, I would point you to Jon and Sam —they are wearing a uniform, and surprise, surprise, people can still tell them apart, thanks to little things like “faces”, “voices” and “acting.” Judging by where we’ve seen that kind of armor before, what the Sand Snakes are wearing seems to be standard Dornish light armor, and I’d bet they’ll use it as much as their father did (i.e. not much.)

      Randa Noyce,

      I don’t know anything about Elio, but “lovely” is not exactly a word I would use to describe Linda Antonsson, considering

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    45. jentario,

      To be honest, I don’t give a shite what they’re wearing as long as they do something with the characters!

      Would also like to point out that I thought Dorne would be a mess before I saw the costumes! 😛 Can’t believe people have changed their opinion/excitement over something this trivial!

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    46. When Elio and Linda give their comments on the Sky “Thronecast” programme in the UK they tone their views down a bit (I imagine Sky are paying them to air their comments). For example, they said (on “Thronecast”) that book Cersei was different to show Cersei in that she was more of a lioness but there wasn’t any particular vitriol against the show version. They are entitled to their opinions but, shall we say, their opinions are usually not my opinions. I’m not sure about the “booby” armour but I doubt the actresses had any say in how they were dressed. I’ll reserve judgement on whether the Sand Snakes as characters have had their individuality sapped until I actually watch season 5. HBO have been very quiet as to progress on season 5 filming and casting (I don’t want to be “spoiled” though I have read the books now but a bit of information about what’s going on in a non-“spoilery” way is welcome). I’m grateful to Sue the Fury and her sources for coming up with these pictures etc for us.

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    47. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Jaime staying all season actually reassured me that it isn’t another crappy, pointless Yara-Dreadfort type of change. Even if it leaves little affect on the show, so did the whole Riverrun thing in the books- but it definitely allows for cool character interactions and potential character development.

      Yes, the first arrival and fight scene sound a bit lame out of context, but the rest could be really great.

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    48. jentario,

      Honestly not got high hopes for it. If anyone can save it then Jaime and Bronn can but it just seems an uneeded add on to the existing stories. Not bothered about Jaime going down there really as the Riverlands stuff was more about him approaching things in a new way, getting his confidence back and getting some distance from Cersei than the location but I am worried about the lack of time they’re going to have to tell the story of the twins distancing themselves from eachother and Jaime’s realisation that Cersei now just sees him as a tool to get what she wants. If they’re going to include Dorne (which I wish they hadn’t bothered or given the time it would take up to other stories) then they need to make it relevant. That’s why I think the

      Trystane = Aegon

      idea would work.

      It gives Doran more to do as a proxy Connington, means the Sand Snakes still have a reason to position themselves, makes Trystane (who in the books is pretty much a throwaway character) relevant and has all the plus’ of the Griffs storyline (dance of dragons , unseen circumstances ,etc) and Varys appearing there would give his character more relevance in that being his plan all along and he could be one of the reasons Jaime distances himself from Cersei if he tells him what she’s been up to/sleeping with ( although I think more than that is needed personally and would still prefer a Jaime/Cersei face to face). Varys was at the sacking of King’s Landing so it’s not silly to think that he got to Ellia and saved Aegon before the Mountain and Armory got to them.

      I just don’t want everything geared towards Dany partly because it’s boring and partly because I now find her character exceedingly dull. Would prefer pretty much anyone else to win the Iron Throne!

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    49. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Dany would only win the Iron Throne temporarily though. Nobody really thinks she’ll be there for long, since R+L=J. She probably doesn’t survive the White Walkers.

      And I don’t think Dany is boring (though that’s of course subjective), it’s more that her storyline is boring at it’s current point because it’s stuck in place. The sooner she gets to Westeros, the sooner she becomes interesting- and it’s in the show’s best interest to make Dany more interesting rather than adding new characters who steal her thunder and make her LESS interesting (the Griffs). Like it or not, Dany is one of the three “main” characters of the series. The show shouldn’t follow the book trend and carry her as a heavy weight storyline and dragging it along.

      On Dorne in the show, I think I’m going to like it. It won’t be anyone’s favorite storyline (I’m thinking Arya will be the fandom favorite next season), but it won’t be bad per say. Yes, you particularly might not like the characters there and you might not like Dany either- but that’s tough luck, because they’re part of the show 🙂

      I can say myself that I am happy they chose Dorne over the Iron Islands and the Griffs (though I’m disappointed at the lack of Arianne, regardless of her Young Griff connection). I think Dorne has far better potential as an HBO show than the other two. Will they reach that potential? Time will tell. And I’m still hoping for a trimmed Greyjoy storyline to come in at some point with a Euron casting.

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    50. jentario,

      Think that it will ultimately come down to personal opinion but again I’m not sure why they don’t add a season onto their planned seven so they can tell the story with all it’s aspects in place. Selmy is the only person around Dany I give two figs about at the moment. Think even GRRM realised her story was getting stale hence exporting characters out there to liven it up!
      I’d say Dorne as a location and culture does but the characters are nowhere near as fleshed out and their primary motivations aren’t as strong as others in different storylines. After reading the Dorne chapters I only really had any idea about or interest in Doran, Arianne (sadly cut) and Darkstar (mainly because he stood out amongst all the other non-descript Dorninsh characters). So why not combin some of the more interesting characters from the Griffs with Dorne?
      Still not convinced the Greyjoy uncles are cut and there needs to be some closure to the Iron Islands arc with the leech already burnt (plus Tyrion mentioning Theon’s uncles already but that could probably be forgotten). Don’t think it would be hard to give a streamlined version of that as wouldn’t take up much TV time but guess it depends on what the mysterious Euron is up to.
      I can remember worrying the Reeds wouldn’t make it and then being happy when they turned up. Hopeing for the same with other characters although it’s looking less hopefuly as the show goes on.

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    51. Nell Tiger Free, who plays Myrcella, is done with her Seville scenes, according to her own Twitter and Keisha Castle-Hughes’s as well, yet, as far as we know, Siddig, Nikolaj, the Sand Snake actresses and the rest remain there, so Myrcella won’t have as many scenes as the other Dornish players. It’s not like these are surprising news, but I still wanted to point it out.

      If Sebastian is still in Seville, I wonder if that means Trystane be more present than Myrcella, which would be weird. It probably means nothing, though.

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    52. I think our mystery guest in Dorne might be Loras, only because he tweeted that he was looking for an amazing ropes course in Spain a while back.

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    53. Gatehouse Ami,

      Huh. That would certainly be new.

      They must remove Loras from King’s Landing or at least from a position in which he could fight for Margaery in her trial by combat. In the books, that is achieved by sending him to Dragonstone, which he assaults in a hurry (so that the Tyrells’ efforts can be redirected to defending the Reach from the ironborn), which results in him being severely wounded, maybe mortally so.

      They could do that in the show, but I think the footage of Loras being taken away by the Sparrows made us all think that Cersei would get rid of him the same way as Margaery. However, if we misunderstood that footage, I guess Loras could be taken out of her sister’s reach in some other way in Dorne. But what way, exactly? If he is to be wounded or killed as well, could he fulfill the role of Arys Oakheart, as in “a Kingsguard who is killed by a Dornish knight, which will be controversial for Dorne-Crown relations”, not in the sense of “a Kingsguard seduced to participate in a plot to crown Myrcella”? Does anybody have any viable theories, if it was the case that Loras is being sent to Dorne?

      Anyway, I still maintain it’s probably Varys.

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    54. LukaNieto,

      I think a better fit for Loras would be him going to defend the Shield Islands (with them being Tyrell lands) from the Ironborn/Euron/Victarion especially if they’re going to come in next season or the tail end of this one. Obvious wishful thinking but it does make sense.

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    55. TheTouchOfFrost,

      You really think they are doing the Shield Islands? Even if they were going to include the Greyjoys uncles, I still don’t see it. If they bother to have Euron, I bet they would give him something more direct and game-changing to do, something that can be explained or shown without needing much exposition. Assuming Euron is in (I have no hope for Victarion), we could just hear about the Shield Islands, and the conflict actually being in the Reach mainland, which is not only easier to immediately “get” but also more in line with the books.

      That is not to say I think they are sending Loras to Dorne. That was just a fun speculative exercise based on Gatehouse Ami’s comment. I think it’s unlikely.

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    56. Renly’s Peach,

      They’re coming out of exactly the same place the Sand Snakes and Jaime were practicing a fight scene last week. And Jaime and Bronn were seen wearing the Dornish guard outfit they use to infiltrate the Water Gardens. Which means they were likely filming that fight scene at the time these pics came up.

      Assuming the Sand Snakes only ever wear armor is stupid. I don’t remember people thinking that last season when we only saw Oberyn with his armor before the trailers came out. The only one I can see keeping her armor on 24/7 is Obara (because she’s the most “badass” Sand Snake), and even that’s a stretch. Tyene will need sexy clothes, because she’s the sexy Sand Snake. I don’t know what they have in mind for Nymeria, but I doubt she’s going to be like Obara.

      Can you please start complaining about this stuff AFTER the show starts again? Or at least after we see some footage?

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    57. jentario,

      And I don’t think Dany is boring (though that’s of course subjective), it’s more that her storyline is boring at it’s current point because it’s stuck in place. The sooner she gets to Westeros, the sooner she becomes interesting- and it’s in the show’s best interest to make Dany more interesting rather than adding new characters who steal her thunder and make her LESS interesting (the Griffs). Like it or not, Dany is one of the three “main” characters of the series. The show shouldn’t follow the book trend and carry her as a heavy weight storyline and dragging it along.

      Yes, this

      As for the costumes, like others I am reserving judgement till I see the show. Really, costume design has been one of the highlights and pleasant surprises of the last four seasons, I don’t think it will change for the fifth. I enjoy seeing the photos and all in these posts, but its quite hard to say something is good or bad till we see the actual scenes play out.

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    58. LukaNieto,

      Not suggesting it happen on screen but

      him leaving to defend his House’s interests makes perfect sense from a show perspective to get him out of the way and unable to fight/be there for Margaery and also be a nice pre-cursor to more Ironborn if they should include them. Maybe some subtle hints like a character mentioning that a ship with a dark red hull was spotted leading the raids or other characters mentioning it accompanied by a scene with Balon dying/being killed in the presence of a sinister figure. Very simple, non-time consuming things that create some intrigue for the character if/when he debuts.

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    59. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Yes, that 3rd leech’s impotency is starting to get on my nerves. It tests my faith in R’hlorr, I tell ya! What would be the harm in a few quick, intriguing shots from elsewhere that connect things up a bit?

        Quote  Reply

    60. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Well, they clearly can’t have another season, or they would have done it. This show is already ridiculously expensive, and getting more expensive every year (bigger dragons, bigger battles, better CGI location shots), and that’s without factoring in contract renegotiations.

      The contracts are done after season 7, and then they have to be renegotiated. Look at GoT’s amazing cast and crew- a lot of them were nobodies when they joined the show, and they came out stars. They all deserve a raise, and most of them will want one. This show has a huge cast, and a huge cast with everyone asking for a raise in an already expensive show might not be something HBO can do. That means recasts, and a lot more than the one or two we got in the past few seasons.

      I’d rather we end the show in seven good seasons than have to suffer watching a new Arya, or Dany or Varys or whatever just for a last season.

      A BB like extended and split final season is still very possible, though.

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    61. just the fact that they’ve made up this whole arc for Jamie and Bronn, and cut Arianne, Quenten, The Greyjoys and fAegon has put me off completely. I really have no hope for season 5 now… it’s a complete mess. What on earth were they thinking? It just screams of contract obligations, budget constraints and, most importantly, RUSHING to finish the show in 7 Seasons.

      so disappointed.

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    62. Ser Matt the Sullen,

      Ah – a new book reader, eh? Can’t understand why folks can’t just realize that the books are the books and the show is the show – I for one am grateful to have two renditions to enjoy. Actually like the changes as it gives me something new to chew on.

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    63. Ser Matt the Sullen,

      …or (as some have discussed) it means that J survives his ordeal with LS & B in the books and decides to travel to Dorne eventually afterwards. Since the show is leaving LS on the cutting room floor, why not? They’ll handle BF differently and have him show up somewhere (the Vale or Greywater Watch or KL or Winterfell or the Twins) soon, hopefully to exact some revenge.

      It’s a sad turn of events (I’m a riverrun J-BF fan) but not completely terrible, imho.

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    64. Hodor’s Bastard,

      I highly doubt Jaime will travel to

      Dorne in the books. The reason he is doing so on the show is to introduce us to the Dornish characters while allowing himself to be outside of Kingslanding while the Cersei issue unfolds. Given that D&D have stated that Jaime is “getting a jetpack” I expect him to be out of Dorne by the end of the season to continue on his regular book path. I expect D&D to use The Blackfish as a substitute for LS

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    65. jentario,

      To be honest I can do without the CGI, extra battles and they could have cut Dorne if they were worried about expensive location shoots!
      I’m sure it’s pretty explensive but compared to the amount it must bring them in (the show is an absolute phenomenon) then they would be stupid not to make the most of it. I can’t see too many of the cast having a hissy fit about their contracts and one more season of solid work in a classic TV series wouldn’t be too much to ask of them! I’d say that only Kit Harrington and Peter Dinklage have really broken out beyond the show so far. Others have had other projects but nothing major.
      See my worry is, if it stays limited to 7 seasons then they won’t be seven good seasons. Have a longer last season and then perhaps a film if they still can’t get everything in. I think artistically the concern should be more with the quality of the story and not fitting it to a schedule.

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    66. TheTouchOfFrost,

      You could do without the CGI? That would make a huge impact on the show, you know. People are already complaining we never see the dragons and the Direwolves, imagine the show without wide shots of King’s Landing and Meereen, without battles and Walls and all that…

      It would reduce the show’s quality (in terms of how it looks) by loads, and I’m sure people wouldn’t like that. Part of the appeal of the show is how great it looks, how realistic everything is. Cutting back on the CGI budget would just shrink everything in it.

      You have to understand that this show isn’t being made for book fans, we are the minority here. The show will try to be good in its own terms (and without some characters and storylines).

      Appreciate it for what it is, don’t hate it for what it could be.

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    67. Turncloak:

      …I expect him to be out of Dorne by the end of the season to continue on his regular book path. I expect D&D to use The Blackfish as a substitute for LS.
      I find those two statements somewhat conflicting, but the BF theory is excellent. If BF assumes a BwB vigilante leadership role, then we have quite a difference….although I often have wondered if BF will have a run-in with his resurrected sister at some point. Maybe BF can find Nymeria too? I hope that we do get a BF-J-Nymeria (either direwolf or snake version) confrontation at some point after many Freys get horribly, viciously, callously and disturbingly decimated. How’s that for combining storylines?

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    68. Turncloak,

      It would be very possible to add a couple of episodes to the final season, or split it up like Breaking Bad season 5. Keep in mind that in the show’a last season they won’t have to worry about preproduction for any seasons to come- that means that the writers, directors, set designers, CGI guys and all have much more time for everything. Especially if they’d split it over two years like BB (they’d only have to worry about post-production of one half-season per year).

      I think the most we’ll get is 14 episodes with a split season (as in two 7 episode half seasons over two years), or 12 without.

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    69. jentario,

      Some CGI is essential but I think they’ve wasted money on a lot of it. I wouldn’t have complained if they’d just used normal size trained wolves/wolf dogs for the direwolves (would make more sense as they’d actually be on screen more often). The dragons and wide shots of cities fair enough but the skeletons and fireballs during that Bran scene were pretty terrible ( I was easier than most on them being a Harryhuasen fan).
      You can have epic without going over the top on CGI..in fact I think a lot of times less is more in that regard. I’m sure it will try but again I point to the fact whenever shows stray too far away from their source material they dip in quality and I have noticed it a bit in GoT. Still a great show and I’ll keep watching unless they really go stupid with it but I don’t think there’s any harm in wanting it to be the best it can be and share with non-readers the whole essence of what goes on in the books.

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    70. Patchy Face,

      “The books are the books. And the show is the show” is the most stupid topic of argument. The whole reason people are upset is BECAUSE they’ve been waiting to see these events from the books finally translated to the screen.

      YES, some things have to change, I understand that completely. And aside from the TOJ/Jon’s parents part, and some prophecies, I’ve been pretty happy with how they’ve adapted the show for the screen.

      My point now is that there are just SO many changes and omissions happening, that the show isn’t really an adaptation now but rather a bastardization of the novels. That’s how “I” feel personally. I even agree with combining Feast and Dance, as they run consecutively, but to leave out SO much stuff (characters, locations, entire plots/arcs etc) not only indicates which characters/locations/plots in the novels are pointless going forward, but takes away so much of the mythology of the world.

      And it’s all because of D&D’s determination to finish in 7 seasons, and of course those actor CONTRACTS! Gotta have Jamie doing SOMETHING to justify that paycheck etc etc etc.

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    71. TheTouchOfFrost,

      I think the fact they lasted 4 seasons while staying close to the books (compared to other adaptions) is a testament to their skills. This is one messy piece of source material- it has many, many storylines; many, many characters; many, many sets and locations; loads of fight scenes and effect heavy scenes… There is really no good way to adapt it.

      You could duplicate D&D, the actors and the crew, I guess 🙂

      As I see it, you lose some aspect of the books no matter what. Either you spread yourself too thin by trying to give all the storylines their due and have people complain that they aren’t putting enough focus on the main characters or that it isn’t as epic as the books, or you end up focusing on some while letting other take the shaft. And here comes TheTouchOfFrost, Greyjoy fan!

      What D&D should do is examine their audience and determine what most of them want to see, and I’m sure they did exactly that. They are focusing on the already existing characters and storylines (unlike AFFC), they are making all the main plots interesting and they are adding another storyline- just one, because there isn’t enough screentime. If not this, you’d see the show reduce other arcs to bare bones (Arya’s training would have been awkward and rushed, Sansa would be doing nothing at all, Dany would take another season of Meereenese bore).

      This is the price you pay when you adapt AFFC and ADWD. There will always be somebody somewhere that’ll be disappointed, but as long as most of them (the Unsullied) are happy, it’s all good.

      I think the healthiest thing to do is to just understand that. Forget the books, they’ll come out in another 10-20 years and we’ll return to Aegon and Arianne and LS there. The show’s world is still very interesting (even if not as much in your opinion). Try to see the quality of what the show DOES include, and enjoy that.

      If the show ends up being stupid because of these changes, then we can critique it as much as we want. But I don’t think that’ll be the case. I can understand your concern (I’m no big fan of the Craster’s Keep mess in 405 or of the Yara trip) but I don’t think it will always be like that. You are forgetting a lot of great show changes, and you’re forgetting that people can learn from their mistakes and improve.

      Let’s wait and see how good or bad the season will be, with or without the cut characters and storylines.

      EDIT: and the skeletons and fireballs were unnecessary (and the latter really stupid IMO), but I don’t think it had too much of an effect on how other scenes were written. That’s just one scene. To clear out some serious budget for the contract renegotiations, they’d need to reduce CGI across the board.

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    72. Ser Matt the Sullen,

      Your sort of argument is exactly why others fail to take people like you seriously. Calling tehir show a “bastardization” of the material is not just an insult to D&D, but GRRM himself who praises the adaptation and D&D regularly. Unlike your selfish view D&D have to take into account sullied’s wishes, unsullied’s knowledge, production costs, HBO’s demands. and many other things.They are by no means perfect, but they are doing a fantastic job with all of this taken into account.

      I’m all for people critiqueing the material, but some of the vitriol that is spouted from so-called fans is unbelievable. Is it any wonder producers/writers of shows normally always stay away from fan forums./discussion boards when they see such foul comments.

      I can only thank you though as I now know to scroll past your comments when I see them.

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    73. Ser Matt the Sullen,

      The books are the books and the show is the show is not an argument. It is a fact. Either watch or don’t watch but realize that everything you have visualized (from the books) is not going to happen. Enjoy!

        Quote  Reply

    74. TheTouchOfFrost: To be honest I can do without the CGI, extra battles and they could have cut Dorne if they were worried about expensive location shoots!

      Right now GOT is a ‘franchise’ for HBO, I don’t remember when I was a TV show have a blurb in the e-popular-media as much as they to, every day. I think they need more VFX not less. They can’t go Peter Jackson on it, even the biggest and best TV screen would not really fit that. But , more dragons and at a little more Direwolf. I am thinking HBO (well Time Warner) can afford it. Heck I would add two more episodes a season, get more help for D&D if that’s needed. From what GRRM has implied ‘big vista’ scenes are going to get bigger… maybe they should think of feature films!

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    75. I dont care about Dorne!
      Oberyn was awesome (mostly due to Pedro) but if in 4 seasons of the show we have seen just 1 character from this place It CANNOT be such an important place! Or it is just a bad case of storytelling! I hope this show doesnt get infected with the “LOST” virus…

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    76. In answer to the query above:

      D&D started with a heralded series of books. They made a heralded series of shows. So why would anyone worry about their current direction?

      Because they are drifting far from the source material into Xena land? Because the books and the show are drifting apart in the all-important variable of tone?

      We shall see soon enough who is right, but it is an arguable point that the show is drifting.

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    77. What everyone needs to keep in mind is that D&D themselves are huge fans of the books. They’re not going to fuck up the prime story lines, no matter who you think they’re catering to. I’m a huge fan of the books (as books) AND a huge fan of the show as an adaptation. They’ve both become two of my favorite things on Earth.

      Seriously, if you can’t appreciate them both for what they are, write something better and maybe I’ll become a fan of yours!!

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    78. Stannis the Mannis,

      The show is leaping off of a cliff as of season 6 where they have literally no source material left. Does it matter if they drift a bit before they take the leap? No, all that matters is that they land on two feet, with a good show and a good season and a satisfying ending

      If anyone’s to blame for this it’s GRRM and his sluggish writing. He should have been done by now, and if he would I’m sure the show would have been much closer to the source material. What they’re doing now is paving the way for writing everything from scratch, with a very loose outline from GRRM.

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    79. The only thing that’s genuinely bothering me about the Dorne storyline in the show (which I’m otherwise thrilled with so far) is the continuity issue with having Myrcella wed the oldest (only?) son and heir to Dorne, as opposed to Tyrion’s Season 2 dialogue stating that she would marry the youngest.

      Not the biggest thing in the world (the show’s various recastings/redesigns take the cake where continuity is concerned), but it’s still sure to bug me on future viewings.

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    80. John M W:
      The only thing that’s genuinely bothering me about the Dorne storyline in the show (which I’m otherwise thrilled with so far) is the continuity issue with having Myrcella wed the oldest (only?) son and heir to Dorne, as opposed to Tyrion’s Season 2 dialogue stating that she would marry the youngest.

      Not the biggest thing in the world (the show’s various recastings/redesigns take the cake where continuity is concerned), but it’s still sure to bug me on future viewings.

      If that’s going to bother you, then you can easily assume that it’s acknowledged directly or indirectly on the show that there was at one point an older sibling who perished in the time between Season 2 and Season 5. I mean if that’s all that’s bugging you, then there are solutions in order to explain it away.

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    81. John M W,

      Trystane could’ve had an older brother, Quentyn, who died after Myrcella went to Dorne but before Jaime goes to Dorne. That is, if they want to bother justifying Tyrion’s line from three seasons ago. I obsess over continuity, so the detail would be nice.

      Then there’s the thing with “Theon’s uncles”, also mentioned by Tyrion, this time in Season 1, which for me is not the same thing at all. Yes, Theon can have uncles, and even still be alive in the TV show, so what? They don’t have to have the same aspirations as Euron and Victarion from the books. There are legitimate reasons for wanting the Greyjoy uncles in the show, but justifying that line from season 1 is not one of them, mostly because it doesn’t need to be justified; it’s not a continuity problem at all.

      Meanwhile, Trystane being the “youngest son” and the heir at the same time would be problematic, unless, for example, someone points out how sorry they are for the recent death of Doran’s heir.

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    82. Hodor’s Bastard,

      I agree. I just don’t understand those glasses… They have a sort of Myrish vibe to them, but the black indicates dragonglass so you never know where to find it, Asshai mabye? Or the wall? I suppose they could drop by Myr during their trip to Volantis (If that is the origin of the dragonglass indeed). They should have gone with Volantene glasses. Season 5 is so lame.

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    83. jentario,

      Probably! Tylly Tyrion, Dragon hanging, Myrish glasses in Volantis (You have a point with your other post, but still I think they either go to Myr or it is not happening), Brienne in essos… This fanfiction is ruining the whole series.

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    84. TheTouchOfFrost,

      I’d say that only Kit Harrington and Peter Dinklage have really broken out beyond the show so far.

      A minor point but actually Dinklage ‘broken out’ many years prior. See Death at a Funeral (the brit version), or Bruges, among others.

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    85. LukaNieto,

      It’s probably a case of the person who pays the piper calling the tune LN (I hope you are familiar with that British idiom). If Sky TV are paying E and L a fee to comment on the show, I guess they are going to be less forthright than on Westeros.org itself. I doubt Sky would keep booking them if they constantly said how lousy GoT was on “Thronecast”.

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    86. ash,

      Agreed. I don’t know about his popularity in the UK before GoT, but in the States, he was certainly a “name” actor, already. His “breakthrough” role was in The Station Agent (2003). Hell, the reason I decided to give the show a try is because I heard Peter Dinklage was a main character, and I would watch anything he did.

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    87. Varys in Dorne doesn’t cut it for me – I don’t see why a felon, on the run due to his involvement in Tywin’s murder, would find it safe to call on (albeit reluctant) associates of the Lannisters.

      Littlefinger would be my number one guess, though the suggestion of Loras is also interesting. If one wanted something completely left field then how about Davos?

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    88. At least one of the supposed stunt doubles is not so, the girl next to Ms (daggers) Sellers is not wielding daggers but a sword, the trim on her skirt is different, she is not wearing a belt or the scabbards for two daggers, her boots are different. Therefore with so many differences to her costume she has to be another Sand Snake, albeit just one as a featured extra with perhaps a few lines, there are eight daughters total after all.

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    89. jentario,

      The weird thing is, I’m not a massive Greyjoy or Griff fan. I’m just a completist! The only aspect of the books I didn’t get on with was Dorne so I’m still bitter that has been adapted when other stronger ( IMO ) storylines appear to have been cut.
      I commend them with doing an excellent job adapting it so far, but last season there were things that worried me and they link to this season. Will judge it on it’s on merit but there’s streamlining to fit a schedule and there’s changing things needlessly which I think happened a couple of times last season and could quite likely happen again this coming season.
      I guess we can have this conversation again after it’s aired and I hope you’re right and they still stay as true as is possible when adapting the books but I am worried about Dorne.

      ash,

      Patchy Face,

      Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Seen all three and Elf! He’s very good in each of them. By breaking out I meant reaching that next level and becoming a major draw. Just didn’t word it very well!

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    90. tyjon,

      If she’s not another Sand Snake, she could be someone who fights alongside the Sand Snakes. When we first meet Nymeria in the books, she is with a dozen spearmen. I don’t see any reason some of those who fight alongside the Sand Snakes couldn’t be women, too.

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    91. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Got it! Sticking with the UK/US thing, I just know there are American actors who aren’t necessarily well known to audiences in the UK, but are known here, just like there are British actors who aren’t familiar to Americans, but popular in the UK. I thought that may have been the case.

      I do agree GoT has made him wildly popular, as opposed to “just” known and well-respected.

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    92. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Oh yeah. Film fans over here were aware of him as Elf, In Bruge and Death at the Funeral (the original and better British version!) were all relatively well known and Elf is massive over here at Christmas!. The Station Agent was a bit less popular but critically acclaimed so those who follow films knew about him. Surprised many folks in the States had heard of him being in In Bruge and Death at A Funeral (the original) as wouldn’t have thought either would be that well known in the US? He’s certianly a household name both sides of the pond now.

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    93. jentario,

      Well said. A rationale and thoughtful response.

      While I’m not thrilled with some of the choices that D&D are making for S5, I also don’t envy their position. This is the tough part of their adaptation: taking two long books with lots of characters and plot lines that may or may not be crucial to the final arc of the story.

      (As an aside, I liked both AFFC and ADWD in spite of the often meandering narrative.)

      This back-and-forth discussion here will continue until S5 airs. There will be some that are unhappy with the changes and others that are not troubled by them. I think its unavoidable. Neither perspective is wrong. It is what it is.

      For me, it is the acting that elevates this show to the highest levels. I can overlook some odd choices – like the beetle conversation – because of these wonderful performances.

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    94. I knew Peter Dinklage from Prince Caspian before this.

      Since GOT, I have also seen Elf and Ice Age 4 (he voiced the villain in that).
      Oh, and Days of Future Past, of course.

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    95. dayvJones,

      Yes, just like the Night’s Watch, and the soldiers, officers and commanders of every army in Westeros —they are wearing the same clothes, so they are of course Power Rangers, and must also share a personality. It’s obvious, really. There is no other explanation.

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    96. As far back as the end of filming Season 4 a year ago, Benioff and Weiss stated that just thinking about Season 5 was giving them nightmares.

      Even with the supposed “unfilmability” of the ASOIAF series, AFFC and ADwD are even moreso. If the first 3 books were structured and plotted the way these 2 were, there would never be an adaptation ever. It’s only because the first 3 books are such compelling source material, that this pushing forward is even occurring.

      As Brian Cogman has stated on multiple occasions, as much as we as fans obsess over how the TV adaptation will be done and what changes need to be made or what elements absolutely need to be adhered to, D&D have done the same thing tenfold. This has been their life for the past 7 years and I doubt they don’t spend a day not going through adaptation choices in their heads over and over again.

      I think Cogman is right in saying that every decision made around the adaptation is not made on a whim and it is debated furiously with all involved. They go back to George and ask him his opinion on elements all the time. They may or may not end up going with his input but they certainly aren’t taking these things lightly.

      It annoys me a little bit when fans apply some flippant assumption about a choice that’s being made like D&D couldn’t care less about it. I can guarantee you that they wouldn’t wake up one day and say “Fuck the Ironborn, I don’t like them, let’s ignore that aspect of the story” or “The Aegon storyline is stupid, time to dump it”.

      I also don’t understand the connection that some fans make between Dorne being emphasized this season and the assumption that this is simply because “D&D like Dorne and not other new elements.” With the amount that the producers have learned from GRRM about how this story continues and more importantly, how it ends, my assumption when I see the emphasis put on Dorne is that it’s there because they’re very important players when it comes to the endgame of ASOIAF.

      Instead of being upset about this, I find it more interesting and am going to be paying close attention to these scenes because I imagine they’ll reveal a lot about the endgame of the series.

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    97. Randa Noyce,

      Rough reading, right? She sometimes behaves like a parody of what her worst critics accuse her of.

      King Tommen,

      I want to kiss you. May I?

      The crucial point is this: D&D care about the source material or else they wouldn’t sink a decade of their lives doing it. They make harsh choices and I’m sure they don’t make them flippantly. Of course they make mistakes —everybody does, but I’d like to see some of their critics do better, even on paper. What a mess that would be.

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    98. tyjon,

      Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      There will be a female fighter with a sword in that fight against Jaime and Bronn for sure. In that training video there was an young woman with sword fighting in the background. But it could be Tyene´s double, Rosabell said she trained with a sword and on this picture woman with sword wear similar enough outfit, it might be just uncomplete.

      I doubt she is one more Snake, only Sarella could be remotely old enough since all SS were aged down, but she is supposed to be somewhere else, use a different weapon and be a bit darker skinned. So probability of sword woman being her is not great. Her being a random Nymeria´s companion in the same outfit i find also very unlikely. That is not something the show would do. D+D always try to be least confusing as possible and having 3 sand snakes and 1 random companion in the same outfits would be confusing as hell.

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    99. King Tommen:
      …my assumption when I see the emphasis put on Dorne is that it’s there because they’re very important players when it comes to the endgame of ASOIAF.

      Instead of being upset about this, I find it more interesting and am going to be paying close attention to these scenes because I imagine they’ll reveal a lot about the endgame of the series.

      But this where some of us differ (a bit). The adaptation of AFfC/ADwD should delicately unveil the unknowns of the ASoI&F tale and not force too much. I don’t envy D&D as they go about this but the books created an atmosphere of intense mystery, almost an insecurity, regarding who (what characters, what families, what armies, etc) really matters. The introduction of ironborn and Dorne and Griffs threw many of us for loop but it also increased the mystery and thrill of “what’s next” and who may be compromised.

      D&D have every right to explore adhoc scenarios, but since they know the endgame, we can’t help but wonder how much of this is really bold and raw spoilage because they ain’t “contractually” waiting for TWoW’s release. I can imagine there is some conflict between GRRM and D&D&BC about this as well. Oh, I would have loved to see the communication between them regarding the end of “Oathkeeper” last season, Yara’s adventures, LS, and the upcoming Lord Commander of the Kingsguard in Dorne venture.

      What does the lack of ironborn, Griffs, Arianne, LS, really mean? Frankly, it intimidates me a bit.

      I can only be sure that S5 will cause many more heated debates and create much disturbance in the force.

      All of this is stated in the proud discomfort of an insecure Sullied nitwit. 🙂

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    100. IknowIknowIknow,

      You’re right! Think I got them confused as wasn’t as familiar with Peter back then and their voices are very similar and young facial hairless Station Agent Peter looks a lot like Jordan. Plus the obvious thing that they’re both little folk.

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    101. GaiusB,

      I didn’t mean to suggest she was necessarily Nymeria’s companion, just that we know from the books Nymeria has those who ride (and presumably fight) at her side, so it wouldn’t be out of left field if there are more than just the Sand Snakes who fight. Additionally, Dorne being Dorne, is is not out of the question to think some of those fighters could be women.
      I’m sorry if I didn’t state that clearly.

        Quote  Reply

    102. GaiusB,

      My analysis part deux of mysterious SS/SD…
      After analyzing the pic more in depth, the girl is 5-6 inches taller than Ms Sellers, her skin is a lot darker in tone, and she has a small shoulder pauldron, while Sellers shoulders are exposed, her back straps are completely different too. Definitely not a stunt double. While they could have companion guards, I doubt any guards would be wearing the same type of outfit… unless the Snakes are posing as guards themselves, which could be intriguing and explains them all wearing the same outfit.
      Still am leaning toward her being a featured extra Sand Snake, one or two years younger than Tyene, perhaps Ella, since she appears in Winds.

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    103. LukaNieto,

      Holy shit… O_O

      I’ve seen some people on the internet who I’ve thought were rather… unlikeable. However, reading that makes me want to apologize to all of them…
      That is just disgusting.

      Normally, if I see someone behaving like that Linda woman, I would just laugh them off. But when it’s someone who seems to have so much influence over the fandom, and who the author himself seems to regularly consult with… That seriously depresses me.

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    104. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      His “breakthrough” role was in The Station Agent (2003

      Oh geez, totally forgot that one. What a great movie.
      IknowIknowIknow,

      IknowIknowIknow,

      Ack!!! You are right (i am soooo embarrassed !) And re Death at a Funeral, I loved the brit version so much that I refused to see the American one. As far as Americans like for the movie – many of us of a certain age spent our college years watching Monty Python, Black adder, and Upstairs Downstairs, Faulty Towers, Are You Being Served… So Id assume many would still be on the lookout for good Brit programs and movies. So I am not all that surprised Im always on the look out for good Brit programs and movies (and films from other countries as well). So I am not all that surprised.

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    105. Uh, would the Sand Snakes really be stupid enough to wear armour that directs all weapons directly to the heart? I think not. Bad costuming department! No biscuit.

        Quote  Reply

    106. jentario,

      Yes, the velocity of the books vs the show is troubling, but manageable as long as GRRM has an outline of the story to the final page (as he should). I recall an @google talk by GRRM where he went on about how D&D essentially have the outline of the tale.

      What troubles me most is the pop-culturization of the show. Does it meant that GRRM ultimately stops throwing haymakers as a writer and starts pulling his punches? DO we get a sanitized politically correct ASOIF as we are getting the show? Is the Red Wedding the penultimate event with nothing to follow? One would hope that the conclusion is a real page turner, and in fact the show could help that by holding the final show in reserve until the publication of the book, or better yet, they make a full length motion picture as the finale to premier on the day Dreams of Spring hits the bookstores.

      Or they could just F it up.

        Quote  Reply

    107. mariamb,

      Thx, but upon a re-read, I could use an editor. Missing punctuation, a verb and some articles. Ugh. Sorry.

      Regarding “the beetle conversation” that you mention in your post above, I rather enjoyed that extended metaphor in S4ep8. Although it may have overextended its welcome, I thought it fit well inside the GoT tale (even in ASoI&F).

      However, I’d like to know if indeed there is a snide backstory to that D&D-written scene (you never know where the true inspiration comes from for these adhoc scenes). I had read the well-known author, Orson Scott Card’s (Ender’s Game), harsh review of GoT season 1 and was amazed how blunt it was (between artists). As others have deduced, could “Orson” Lannister, the dim-witted cousin of Tyrion & Jaime, be a backlash by D&D because of OSC’s harsh review? One can even surmise that “Orson” is an odd, dumb equivalent of “Ender” since both destroy bugs in their own unique way. The parallels between them can’t be denied, imho.

      Hope we get some comments by all involved someday. Maybe D&D will extend an olive branch and OSC will be invited for a cameo soon. 🙂

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    108. Stannis the Mannis: or better yet, they make a full length motion picture as the finale to premier on the day Dreams of Spring hits the bookstores.

      That’s what GRRM suggested this year , but I don’t know.
      I think the more interesting thing is to see how season 5 does, if it breaks seasons 4 record , which broke all of HBO’s records and seems like it could continue… then Time-Warner may want HBO to reconsider the future. If the future is more dollar signs … well one could pull in more clams with a movie, or movies. It’ sort of the LTOR (just to pick one example) effect. Three billion dollars world-wide does tickle a corp’s money bone.

        Quote  Reply

    109. Big Mac,
      LukaNieto,

      That link was very informative… (sidenote: is that Bex from here who writes the tumblr? love the Drunk Cersei images!)
      I had seen her on the Thronecast but this puts things in perspective. Some very nasty language… Their site is amazing but I use it for information on book cannon, not opinions!

        Quote  Reply

    110. Hermann: October 17, 2014 at 8:03 pm
      Considering that they took all the Sand Snakes and removed all their personal characterization and traits and essentially turned them all into the same carbon copy, it’s only fitting that they should all wear the same shitty costume.

      The Dorne arc will be an absolute mess.

      Have to agree… Everything I’ve read and seen so far makes me very worried about the Dornish storyline. These costumes! Ugh, we are entering Batman and Robin territory. And all wear the same like a bunch of Unsullied??? What were they thinking?

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    111. Iron_Unbroken,

      Yeah, like a bunch of Unsullied! Or Night’s Watch men. Or soldiers and even commanders from the Lannister army. Or the Stark army. Or the Boltons. Or Stannis’s. Do you often confuse a character for another because they are dressed the same way? Tywin, Jaime and Kevan in Season 1? Jon and Sam and the Night’s Watch? Also, what gives you the idea that the Sand Snakes will wear that light armor the whole season? Did Oberyn? No, he only wore his armor —which was quite similar to this one by the way— in Tyrion’s trial by combat.

      I agree about the bat-nipples, though. Don’t look good at all.

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    112. Luka Nieto,

      Its not about confusing them. Uniforms are worn by men-at-arms and perhaps low level commanders. The Sand Snakes are Dornish nobility. I have not seen Rob, Stannis, Eddard, Catelyn, Sansa, Margery, Cercei or even Davos wear a uniform like a common soldier.

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    113. Iron_Unbroken,

      Davos was wearing the Stannis army uniform at the Wall, which by the way shares most of its design with Stannis’s own armor. And as I said, commanders in the Lannister army, including main characters (Tywin and Jaime in Season 1, for example), wear a more fancy version of the Lannister soldier uniform, the only difference being there is more gold and a golden lion on each shoulder. There are small differences in the armors of these main characters, of course… and these are present as well with the Sand Snakes, if you pay attention: their color palette is different thanks to the fact that they wear different clothes bellow the belt, and they have different accessories on their armor. Please note that these differences are more major than the aforementioned commander armor for the Lannisters, and nobody complained then.

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    114. Luka Nieto:
      dayvJones,

      Yes, just like the Night’s Watch, and the soldiers, officers and commanders of every army in Westeros —they are wearing the same clothes, so they are of course Power Rangers, and must also share a personality. It’s obvious, really. There is no other explanation.

      yeah ok the Nights watch have a common look, but each member has its own spin on it… kinda like each of their outfits expresses some unique aspect of their character instead of carbon copies- what a novel idea!?!

      Also the major northern lords in the show all have unique outfits (karstark, umber, bolton, stark on rewatches try and notice the difference in each house. For example Karstark have armor plating around their neck, http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140406095514/gameofthrones/images/9/9f/Karstarkmen.jpg) they aren’t all wearing the same thing.

      The Lannister banner-man in Harenhal also wear unique/variations of the Westerlands armor. We only have one pic of the sand snakes so far, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they all wear identical outfits for the rest of the season.

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    115. Hodor’s Bastard,

      As others have deduced, could “Orson” Lannister, the dim-witted cousin of Tyrion & Jaime, be a backlash by D&D because of OSC’s harsh review? One can even surmise that “Orson” is an odd, dumb equivalent of “Ender” since both destroy bugs in their own unique way. The parallels between them can’t be denied, imho.

      As a so not a fan of Card, I find that totally realistic and amusing.

        Quote  Reply

    116. Why does everyone assume that historical armor solely followed function, and not form? Yes, “boobplate” might create a pathway for a sword point to hit the heart, but the breastplates of certain Roman military personnel (for example, the cuirass worn by commanders), were indeed “boob-plated, or “muscle-plated,” which created a target for the heart. Perhaps that was due to the hubris of the Roman commanders? And if so, perhaps the Dornish share that character flaw? In this case, some of the Sand Snakes, like Oberyn, are highly confident in their abilities. As such, they might be expected to showboat with some boob-plate, despite the potential risk. It demonstrates confidence bordering on arrogance, just as Oberyn did during his fight with the Mountain. If such risk-taking is a part of their characters, then the choice of armor will be consistent with their personalities.

      Is this not a more likely reason for this design than “D&D are st00pfid and HBO likes b00bs?”

        Quote  Reply

    117. Nipples on the breastplate made me giggle at first but I actually dig this design.
      As useless as the books made us understand they are, I find them completely fitting the Sand Snakes personality.
      They are not Brienne, they are not Arya. They all completely endorse their feminity, though in a different way, and in a visual adaptation where costumes have always been extremely representative of characters, it seems appropriate to me to give an immediately recognizable design to our Sand Snakes. It is both provocative and stealthy-looking, and I think they will seriously work on screen.
      Also, the costume unity doesn’t mean they will all have the same personality. It just conveys a common visual identity to the Snakes, but I’m pretty confident the actresses will bring all the shades we need in their interpretation.

      Other than that, I’m actually starting to like what they are making with the Dorne plot. I loved Arianne, but the more I think of it, the more her (temporary ?) cut makes sense.
      The main point of having her as a POV in AFFC was to root for her, let us think that Doran was weak, and to drop the Justice, Fire and Blood as an incredible plot twist. On screen, we are not in her head, so it would have been very hard to recreate that, and even harder to make Siddig anything less than fabulous.
      As hard as it may be, they have to make choices to keep the adaptation solid, and honestly, the Arianne Daddy Issues Arc didn’t have a real narrative impact (other than Myrcella’s ear and Sand Snakes going to KL, which I can imagine being brought another way).
      Now, I still love Arianne, and I would find it odd that she disappears completely, especially since her situation in the books promises a lot of future material. I’m betting on her being mentioned in season 5, and included in season 6.

      Conclusion : I am very fine with a simplification of Doran/Arianne relationship, and therefore of the AFFC Dorne arc, if it means that some other exciting stuff will happen and that we will fully exploit the Dornish characters. And it seems to be the case.
      Let’s not forget that AFFC actually has very few Sand Snakes and Doran scenes. So fleshing them out for screen ? Totally yes !

        Quote  Reply

    118. House Pineapple,

      I agree with everything except the idea that Arianne will still appear in Season 6. Trystane has been officially described as Doran’s heir, and from what we’ve seen from Arianne’s role in TWOW (“Arianne I” and “Arianne II”), it will be all about Aegon… who apparently is also completely cut, judging by what we’ve seen of Tyrion’s filming. Granted, it might just be that they are both delayed until season 6… but why would they delay these characters, especially Aegon, until the second-to-last season? He’s already appearing late enough in the game as it is. So, my bet is Aegon is cut, which means that so is Arianne.

        Quote  Reply

    119. LukaNieto,

      Do you think it could be possible that Aegon is slated for season 6 ? I’m also troubled by the news we’ve had so far, but I’m kinda clinging to the fact that D&D have never cut any major character so far. We’ve had minor characters simplified, transformed, melted together, but Aegon ( f or not) is a serious player in the game, and brings an interesting twist to Daenerys legitimacy. It just seems so weird to completely ignore him…
      As for Trystane being the heir, I’m not completely sure. It was mentioned in an HBO article, but for all we know, it was just a simplification for the viewers.

      Maybe I’m just delusional, but all in all D&D have made a great adaptation so far, dealt with the monstrous complexity and number of characters pretty damn well, and cutting big characters just seems… odd.

        Quote  Reply

    120. House Pineapple,

      As I see it, at this point in time, cutting these new, rich and complex characters may be a necessary sacrifice to ensure that the characters we already now have sufficient screen-time to remain as rich and complex as they are.

      Arianne is great, but her motivations revolve around her issues with his father, another new character, while Doran’s and the Sand Snakes’ issues revolve around the Lannisters (characters we’ve been invested in for four seasons already) and around things that we have seen and cared about in the show (Oberyn and his death). The same goes for Victarion’s motivations, which are all about his grudge with Euron, another new character. Anyway, Vic’s only consequential deed —going to Meeren— was already supplanted by Daario saving the Meereenese fleet during the conquest of the city. As for Aegon, the fact that he steals Dany’s thunder is already a concerned in the books, and I think it would only be worst in the show. It was a surprise in the books, but in the show it would practically come out of nowhere.

      But that’s all secondary to the main point: all of these new main characters —Euron, Victarion, Arianne, Aegon— would need a lot of screen time so that they resemble their book counterparts in the slightest, and so that they be considered anything remotely like “main characters”. But the season will be ten episodes no matter what, so this screen-time would be taken from characters we already know and love. It’s not an easy decision, but I can see why D&D considered it a necessary sacrifice.

        Quote  Reply

    121. Weezy,

      In addition

      to Trystane being Aegon, it’s possible he could be a Blackfyre, but Varys told Doran Trystane is Rhaegar and Elia’s son. So, Doran believes Trystane-Aegon is a true Targaryen; only Varys know he’s fAegon. That would have Doran and Varys seeming to have aligning strategies, but it’s typical Varys to have another plot of his own up his sleeve, using Doran to achieve his own private agenda.

        Quote  Reply

    122. LukaNieto,

      Would they need to mention the Blackfyre thing?…if it is indeed true that he is (read an interesting theory the other day about The Tattered Prince being the Mummers Dragon). Conflicting Targs is only a name change away from Targ/Blackfyre conflict.

        Quote  Reply

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