Exciting Night Shoots Ongoing at Winterfell for Game of Thrones Season 8!

Winterfell white raven

As we reported earlier today, Game of Thrones has been busy this month shooting at the Winterfell set located in Toome, Northern Ireland. The prominence of the Stark set makes it a bit easier than other sites to get a peek at, thankfully! And this week, the activity has been stepping up at the filming location, with film crews, spotlights and security all over the area.

So, what’s going out on there? Luckily, Oakleaf Photography managed to snag some great shots of the work in progress, and a WotW reader has sent in a video providing another glimpse of tonight’s shoot! Let’s have a look and a listen, and get our speculation on!

Based on changes to the set in Moneyglass, it’s been apparent for some time that there would be some kind of siege to Winterfell in season 8. The only question for us was, would the attack be coming from the White Walkers or from a more human enemy from the South? We believe these new photos from Oakleaf clear up that question. Though it’s always possible the White Walkers attack later, those are certainly humans clad in armor outside Winterfell, in the photos below.

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It’s hard to say with 100% certainty, but the style of helmets is consistent the armor of House Lannister, the people we would expect to see storming the gates of Winterfell, after Cersei made her intentions clear in the season 7 finale.

2

3

In addition to the photos, WotW reader Catháir captured this video of the filming. You can hear the voices of the performers/extras come into the video about 45 seconds in, with the men shouting in sync. Catháir speculates based on what we’re hearing, the soldiers might be using a battering ram; this is certainly possible and could explain them counting/chanting in unison.

What do you think, readers? We’re certainly in for more exciting battles in season 8, ones that might even top the incredible action of season 7!

159 responses

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    1. Hodor. Congratulations on the scoop, Sue. This is HUGE news and a bit surprising and, speaking as a STark-fan, rather concerning. But it’s a big moment. I bet Sapochnik is directing. And let the speculation begin.

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    2. Holy cow, so the Lannisters/Golden company will make it there before the white walkers. I wonder if dany and the Dragons will be a part of this battle. this should really be intense, the Siege of Winter again XD
      poor winterfell

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    3. Onedon:
      Matthew The Dragon knight,
      Nutter was the one who was originally tap to direct the loot train battle; until back surgery changed that. So many he will get some sort of battle to direct in season eight.

      I think I heard that one awhile ago, hope Nutter gets another shot at it.
      Sapochnik can kick major ass directing both Battle and non Battle episodes, Winds was bloody Brilliant.
      Nutter is also top notch with the red wedding, Dance of the dragons, and Mothers Mercy under his belt.
      So I really want to see what Nutter can do with a episode like this.

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    4. Well, I know which character won’t be in this battle:

      “You swore your allegiance to House Stark, Lord Glover, but in their hour of greatest need, you refused the call.”

      🎶 Brave Sir Robett ran away,
      bravely ran away away,
      When danger reared its ugly head,
      he bravely turned his tail and fled.
      Yes brave Sir Robett turned about,
      and gallantly he chickened out. 🎵

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    5. Matthew The Dragon knight:
      Holy cow, so the Lannisters/Golden company will make it there before the white walkers. I wonder if dany and the Dragons will be a part of this battle. this should really be intense, the Siege of Winter again XD
      poor winterfell

      The Lannisters/GC attacking the Starks before they can even take on the WW, if true, must be the stupidest thing that Cersei has done till date.

      Like what’s her plan? She did see that wight right?

      This only continues to enforce that Tyrion’s wight hunt plan was a complete waste of time. I think by the time the show is over, the Lannisters will rank above the Starks in terms of stupidest house.

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    6. What will Lannnister attackers do if Jaime turns up on the battlements telling them they’re fighting on the wrong side?

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    7. So….Winterfell will be under siege by Lannister/Golden Company attackers, and just when it looks like they’ll breach the castle wall and all hope is lost….

      Team Night King arrives to save the day!

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    8. Matthew The Dragon knight,

      I hope the WWs swarm over the troops assaulting WF. The chanting and yelling suddenly stops, and is replaced by an eerie silence.

      Baby Sam peaks his head over the battlements and gives a thumbs up to his White Walker half-brothers.

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    9. Matthew The Dragon knight:
      Stark Raven’ Rad,

      Sapochnik would be the man to do this, but It would be interested to see what Nutter can do with a Episode like this.

      Good point. Mark Mylod did a good job last year with Euron’s attack on Dany’s fleet, and he’s not known for action. Nutter should be fine. I wonder if this is a surprise night attack, just part of a longer battle, or the culmination of a siege. This may also answer a question many fans have pondered: “Does Bran know the future?” If he knows it well, one would think he could have given warning. But he had said he needed more control and may not yet have mastered it.

      Grail King,

      Yes, she was. But I see this as a typical Euron move, using the fleet equivalent of Littlefinger’s jet pack. His attack on Dany’s fleet and his suddenly showing up at Casterly Rock to block the Unsullied prefigure his now his having ferried over the Golden Company for a devastating attack on the North. I just hope no Starks were injured in the course of his project.

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    10. Ten Bears:
      So….Winterfell will be under siege by Lannister/Golden Company attackers, and just when it looks like they’ll breach the castle wall and all hope is lost….

      Team Night King arrives to save the day!

      i would not put it past David and Dan to actually write that! I mean after all they had LF coming to save the day with the Vale army!

      And they love that last minute save even if it makes no sense plotwise.

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    11. Firannion: What will Lannnister attackers do if Jaime turns up on the battlements telling them they’re fighting on the wrong side?

      So many have wondered how Jaime will die. What if Lannisters kill him early in the season before he gets to lead an attack against the WWs? A wasted death.

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    12. That strategy makes no sense and completely contradicts Cersei’s plan.

      She knows the Dead are coming and so she’s hedging her bets that either the Northerners and Targaryen forces will defeat them or they won’t. If they defeat them, then she’s hoping this will weaken her enemies and give her the upper hand. If they fail, then God only knows what she plans – S7 never really made that clear.

      What would not help at the moment would be to send a Lannister army north to attack Winterfell and prevent her enemies from putting up a serious fight against the Dead, and at the same time cost her soldiers too. It’s just a bad move and makes no sense.

      So I’m not convinced atm.

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    13. I find it incredibly hard to believe that it’s the Lannisters or the Golden Company.

      Cersei laid out her plan in the S7 finale, to let everybody else die fighting in the north while they take back the lands they lost and then deal with whoever emerges victorious in the north.

      But then again, I found it incredibly hard to believe that Jon would go beyond the wall again in Season 7 when that spoiler was doing the rounds, so I really shouldn’t rule anything out no matter how absurd.

      From the voices on the video, there’s definitely a human army there. Sounds a bit like the Bolton soldiers advancing when they had Jon’s army surrounded. Could the Unsullied/Northerners be performing some military manoeuvre in defence of Winterfell?

      It’s really hard to tell.

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    14. Do the White Walkers and Wights really move that slow? How the hell would the Golden Company get there before the White Walkers given the events of the final episode and not to mention they now have a dragon?

      It also doesn’t make any story sense given the events of the final episode in season 7. Cersei said let them kill each other in the North and we’ll be there at the end with a strong army. Even if she is supposed to be insane why would she do that?

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    15. I don’t believe for a minute that the Lannister Army/GC are attacking WF. It makes no sense and no consistency with the story. There’s no reason to send her army that far north.

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    16. My biggest fear for S8 is that it won’t make sense – you know, like the Wight Hunt or the Run thru Braavos. I’d really like somebody to assure me that they’re not going to undermine the plot for moments of “Great Acting”. If the ending grows organically from all that has come before, I’m good with whoever winds up winning.

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    17. orange,

      No idea! Maybe something happens to Viserion?

      And Euron was off to fetch the Golden Company before the end of season 7, and Euron has an incredibly fast fleet. The distance between Essos and Westeros isn’t that far- it ain’t called the Narrow Sea for nothing. Lots of possibilities in play.

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    18. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man:
      “I find it incredibly hard to believe that it’s the Lannisters or the Golden Company.

      Cersei laid out her plan in the S7 finale, to let everybody else die fighting in the north while they take back the lands they lost and then deal with whoever emerges victorious in the north.

      But then again, I found it incredibly hard to believe that Jon would go beyond the wall again in Season 7 when that spoiler was doing the rounds, so I really shouldn’t rule anything out no matter how absurd…”

      I hear ya.
      Cersei’s double-cross was short-sighted, but had some logic to it: Let Ned’s dolt bastard and the Mad King’s Barbie girl do the fighting up north, and then Cersei could mop up the survivors.

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    19. Has it been established where in the season this will be? If it’s Lannisters or Golden Company attacking Winterfell, could it be towards the end of the season, after the White Walkers have been dealt with?

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    20. Ryan:
      I don’t believe for a minute that the Lannister Army/GC are attacking WF. It makes no sense and no consistency with the story.There’s no reason to send her army that far north.

      I concur. What, then, could possibly be going on in this battle scene? Some serious tinfoil required. I got no clue.

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    21. Dolorous Methuselah:
      Has it been established where in the season this will be?If it’s Lannisters or Golden Company attacking Winterfell, could it be towards the end of the season, after the White Walkers have been dealt with?

      I also wondered that, because that’s about the only way I can imagine this making the slightest bit of sense. Attacking earlier goes completely against the strategy Cersei outlined, and would/should be suicidal from a numbers perspective, even discounting Dany’s dragons (not to mention the omniscient Bran, though admittedly Cersei doesn’t know about him).

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    22. Dolorous Methuselah,

      It could be literally any time in the season. They definitely don’t shoot in sequence. Last week they were shooting a lot of the first couple episodes at that set but that was last week. No idea about this week. 🙂

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    23. The logic of this, no matter who the attackers are, perhaps would be evident if we knew which episode this will be in. IMO Episode 1 is too soon, especially if the attackers beat J and D there. Episode 2 seems more reasonable to me, and Ep 3 most likely. I think Sapochnik is directing Ep 3. BTW, this may be just part of an extended, key battle; as Sue said, they’ve been filming here for some time.

      Ten Bears,

      TB, a poster on Reddit gave you a shout-out by name, saying they loved your comment about Team Night King saving the day. I did too.

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    24. this is very interesting, what I want to now is if this fight takes place before or after the confrontation with the white walkers.

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    25. Dolorous Methuselah:
      Has it been established where in the season this will be?If it’s Lannisters or Golden Company attacking Winterfell, could it be towards the end of the season, after the White Walkers have been dealt with?

      Even this makes no sense to me. Are we to then assume that the WW are defeated by the North by episode 4 and then in episode 5, Cersei sends her army up North to attack Winterfell? That she and the south sits there untouched and unaffected by the WW and the NK? So the WW get past the wall and are immediately defeated at WF? That’s anti-climatic to say the least. Pfft!

      Not to mention, Jaime would have mentioned to the Starks what Cersei’s plan is and they would have prepared for her attack. Right?

      And if this is true then the what’s with the dragons over KL and the dragonfire burning down the city? If the Lannister army and the GC are presumably defeated up North, then what is the point of dragons in KL?

      …maybe Lannister army, GC , Euron and Cersei defeat everyone else, take Winterfell and she is still sitting on the IT till the very last episode – I can see David and Dan writing this.

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    26. would it make since if Euron took the golden company for himself and betrayed cersei ?he attacks Winterfell and takeover kingslanding ?
      a poor guess, but just a thought.

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    27. SerNoName,

      As evenwind commented, this seems to be another case of Wight Hunt in season 7 and the Run thru Braavos in season 6.

      On the flip side, there is alot history of characters going out with a bang; even the sand snakes had a good ending. stannis being one the few exception. So maybe as filming continues and more leaks it will make sense. But even then, we won’t have full context.

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    28. This is disinformation. Trying to distract from the 4chan Karstark extra who first alerted us to this battle. I find it very disingenuous that this article was posted eons after his leak and photos popping up on Reddit. It’s not the Lannister Army. The leaker said it was the Unsullied marching out after the NK’s Army. With Tyrion in charge of defending Winterfell as the others leave to chase the NK.

      How much us HBO paying you?

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    29. Sonya,

      Oh, if a 4chan guy said it and his leak was shared on freefolk it must be legit. Shame on you Sue! How dare you try to distract us while 4chan and freefolk “leakers” are sharing their wisdom with us!

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    30. Great pics and video- Winterfell looks stunning and is beautifully lit!

      I’m with many of the others, in that I’m confused as to when these scenes fall in the season.. must be late season, as team Jon/Dany will surely arrive before any Lannister/GC forces do. So many questions- how could (decimated) Lannisters forces and the GC cross the North in the midst of winter? And where in hell are the Unsullied/Dothraki? In fact where the hell are the WWs/ AOTD?? They should arrive at WF fairly early on (or at least advance south).

      I’ll be bummed if the war against the WWs isn’t the climax of the show in all honesty, and it looks like this is the way the plot is headed.

      The only way I can make sense of it is that perhaps team Jon/Dany advance south after the WWs and face off at KL, while the southern forces are storming WF. That way, the cast will be split in two locations, as opposed to having them all fighting together.

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    31. If it’s the Lannisters then I think Cersei might have changed her plans and want revenge on Jaime instead as soon as she figure out he’s at Winterfell.

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    32. Ten Bears,

      Lol I was thinking something along the same lines. Perhaps the NK arrives as they’re fighting each other and the human armies are forced to fight together to survive. Night king ex machina?

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    33. Sean C.,

      The more I think about possible scenarios the more I’m confused.. even if it’s later in the season, surely the southern forces would’ve learned of the devastation caused by the AOTD/Viserion either during their travels (or indeed they would’ve passed them at some point). So this surely must be after the WWs have been wiped out? 😬

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    34. Matthew The Dragon knight:
      Holy cow, so the Lannisters/Golden company will make it there before the white walkers. I wonder if dany and the Dragons will be a part of this battle. this should really be intense, the Siege of Winter again XD
      poor winterfell

      so this mean that the GC will betray Cercei/Euron and will deal with Jon/Danny..Danny surely will be part of this battle ..She before her pregnancy revealed on will be in the battles of EP1 and EP2.

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    35. Grail King:
      Shit!
      Sansa was right, and she or Jon could be captured.

      oh i hope not..I dont care about Sansa dies or captured ..but Jon captured by Cercei..no man..i hope this doesnt happen

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    36. Marlana: So many have wondered how Jaime will die.What if Lannisters kill him early in the season before he gets to lead an attack against the WWs?A wasted death.

      i hope not..Jaime should to live through S8 for to be AA by killing Cercei and then NK with Widows Veil

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    37. Also, if the Lannisters are attacking Winterfell, I wonder if (book spoilers) …

      D&D will adapt the Golden Company abandoning their contract in the books to the GC abandoning their contract with Cersei in Season 8. Given their history with Targaryens, I'm hoping they surprise the Lannisters by switching sides.

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    38. ”It’s hard to say with 100% certainty, but the style of helmets is consistent the armor of House Lannister, the people we would expect to see storming the gates of Winterfell, after Cersei made her intentions clear in the season 7 finale”’ WOW..could that means that the Golden company will betray Cercei/Euron and sides with Jon/Danny?..I hope so…But what if Cercei send them there to kill the Dragons with scorpion bolts ?you know..to look up that they fighting along with them the WW..but during battle one of them to hit [saying then that was an accident] Drogon/Danny during flying..I hope not..but Cercei is capable to do that..she is batshit crazy against Danny/Jon..Cercei is the most biggest villain/danger there..I hope she killed by the NK and turned NQ or Jaime in order to be AA..That will be nice twist.

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    39. It’s Dany she’s going to try to burn Winterfell than later Kings Landing. Her arc is clearly leading her to becoming an antagonist and if you think otherwise then you missed a lot of clues and evidences in the books. The Godswood will burn but the Wierwood tree the ‘heart’ of Winterfell will survive because it can’t be burned. I have a feeling it will be Jaime to finish her off for good. He will complete what he started last season and kill Dany therefore ending ‘fire’ magic, likewise Jon will complete what he started last season and kill the Nightking ending ‘Ice’ magic.

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    40. Westerositruth,

      Oh for goodness sake.

      She burned some people and they had a moral conversation about the choices we have to make in war. The whole season was based on the moral ramifications of waging war. The conversation between Tyrion and Varys was there to remind us that she is not get father. That’s the whole thing about Dany – she’s called the ‘Mad King’s Daughter’ but she isn’t anything like her father.

      ‘Children aren’t their fathers’. That’s a central theme in GoT. You missed that.

      There is no foreshadowing and Dany isn’t going to be done tragic villain because it would completely undermine the whole point of her character.

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    41. David Nutter can do action just as well Sapochnik. I recently re-watched The Pacific and he did a great (as in traumatising) job with his battle scenes.

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    42. Westerositruth:
      It’s Dany she’s going to try to burn Winterfell than later Kings Landing. Her arc is clearly leading her to becoming an antagonist and if you think otherwise then you missed a lot of clues and evidences in the books. The Godswood will burn but the Wierwood tree the ‘heart’ of Winterfell will survive because it can’t be burned. I have a feeling it will be Jaime to finish her off for good. He will complete what he started last season and kill Dany therefore ending ‘fire’ magic, likewise Jon will complete what he started last season and kill the Nightking ending ‘Ice’ magic.

      Bullshit ..The soldiers on the photo arent Dannys soldiers ..are Lannister soldiers ..3 possibilities [a]Jaime comes to help with the Riverrun soldiers [lead by Bronn and Edmure]attacking NK[b]Cercei attack Winterfel[knowing that there are coming Jon/Danny]before the NK …and because she is crazy and [c]The GC betray Cercei switch sides with Jon/Danny and comes to Winterfel to fight along with them the NK..Also Danny becomes villain theory is just too demode and doesnt make sense…More evidences in the book/show are for Sansa turning mad like her aunt Lyssa [after her rape by Ramsay she has started to be dark persona and psycho] than Danny be like her father…Danny is not like her father and she proves that by not burning KL in S7 ..She burns the people who deserve to die because they had committed crimes..not innocents like the MK or Cercei..Danny had change a lot when she falls in love with Jon[he with her]..There is no reason for Jaime to kill Danny..more reasons are for him to kill Cercei[who is the bastard daughter of the MK and is fire/incest/wildfire maniac also]than Danny..The magic will temporary die with Dragons [fire]and NK[Ice] dying both ..but not before laying petrified eggs and NK be human again..Danny also will give birth to a human child who will combine Ice&Fire in one person and that child will be her successor on the Throne ..That make sense..because magic will return again.Its connected with the circle of the life.

      Violator:
      Westerositruth,

      Oh for goodness sake.

      She burned some people and they had a moral conversation about the choices we have to make in war. The whole season was based on the moral ramifications of waging war. The conversation between Tyrion and Varys was there to remind us that she is not get father. That’s the whole thing about Dany – she’s called the ‘Mad King’s Daughter’ but she isn’t anything like her father.

      ‘Children aren’t their fathers’. That’s a central theme in GoT. You missed that.

      There is no foreshadowing and Dany isn’t going to be done tragic villain because it would completely undermine the whole point of her character.

      i agree..That theory Danny turn mad like her father ..its very demode and make 0 sense.I dont see that happen in S8 ..There are enough villains already [Cercei,NK,Sansa[on the making to be villain],Euron,Mountain,Varys and Qyburn]..There is no time and place for another one.

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    43. OK. Here are my guesses.

      First of all, I wouldn’t say that all those soldiers look all that Lannister to me. The shapes of the helmets and the clothing look more similar to what the northerners or the KotV wear. So, there are several options: 1) the defenders of Winterfell are charging through the gates to fend off the wights (the Blackwater scenario); and 2) the soldiers we see outside the gates are wights (we shouldn’t forget that the army of Stannis and the Bolton soldiers who had fallen fighting it must have been burried unburnt right outside Winterfell ready for the NK and it’s not beyond the realm of possibilities that wightified soldiers will fight in a much more organized way than the wightified wildlings we are used to.

      As for possible alternatives, I can think of the following. The NK is either defeated at WF or tries to bypass it and is defeated in an open field – one way or another, he pretends to flee to his den (Ep 3); Jon and most of his remaining army goes on pursuit, whereas Cersei sends Euron and the Golden Company to WF (Ep 4); sure, Ep 5 reveals that, instead of going north, the NK went south to KL wightifying every corpse on the way, but WF is besieged by the Golden Company mirroring the situation we had in S2. That would give us two battles in the same episode (Ep 5) and give a bitter taste to Jon’s inevitable victory against the NK and Cersei.

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    44. The entire this is a human army because of the helmets they are wearing is flawed. For one those pictures are very far away. I can make out one helmet and it could be anyone. Wights don’t strip off their armor when they die. The sounds could be taken out later too. I seriously doubt this is a human army.

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    45. Artemisia,

      Jon is the combination of “Ice & Fire” through his parents already – Lyanna is the ice and Rhaeger the fire. I don’t think Dany is going to go mad and I don’t think she’ll die now after rewatching Season 7 again. It’s quite obvious that the mad queen will be Cersei…she’s already half way there and having 2 mad queens makes no sense at all. Dany doesn’t have to die for magic to die – only her dragons do and I expect they will by the end. That will be the ‘bittersweet’ – bitter because she loses her dragon children and sweet because she will have the human child she has always longed for. Sansa isn’t going to go mad either – not sure where you get that from, any victim of rape is angry and hurt after the fact but her character arc sets her up to become a leader in the show . I think the third twist has to do with Bran and his future given he’s supposed to be the key to the end game.

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    46. The Lannister forces are attacking winterfell because it’s the only safe place from the white walkers. The wall was not the only building that protected the north from the white walkers. Powerful magic protects winterfell from the others. Hence the Lannisters are attacking but only out of desperation. They will die and add fuel to the night King’s army otherwise.

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    47. Hursta1,

      Oh, as if anyone would suggest having a penis kinda guards one against turning evil. ? What’s the logic behind your statement? I’d bet there’s isn’t a person here that thinks “girls are bad they have cooties” lol.

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    48. Artemisia: oh i hope not..I dont care about Sansa dies or captured ..but Jon captured by Cercei..no man..i hope this doesnt happen

      LOL
      Yes, I know your feelings. : )

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    49. Westerositruth:
      It’s Dany she’s going to try to burn Winterfell than later Kings Landing. Her arc is clearly leading her to becoming an antagonist and if you think otherwise then you missed a lot of clues and evidences in the books. The Godswood will burn but the Wierwood tree the ‘heart’ of Winterfell will survive because it can’t be burned. I have a feeling it will be Jaime to finish her off for good. He will complete what he started last season and kill Dany therefore ending ‘fire’ magic, likewise Jon will complete what he started last season and kill the Nightking ending ‘Ice’ magic.

      I’m so GLAD I’m NEUTRAL on Danny; I’m getting popcorn to watch this one. :@)

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    50. The Night Kings dragon will be slain by a dragon glass tipped bolt fired from the Lannisters giant crossbow. Jon Snow will challenge the Night King to a one to one fight surrounded by the two armies and kill him with a dragon glass knife. Game over.

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    51. You do know they don’t film these scenes in order? Even Cersei wouldn’t be stupid enough to attack WF before The Alliance has destroyed the night king so chances are this is after the WW have been defeated and Cersei is attacking what’s left of the Starks and other good guy allies.

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    52. ygritte,

      Yes this is a possibility but would be awfully anti-climactic. This big buildup of the White Walkers from literally the cold open of the pilot only to be defeated in 3 or 4 episodes once they pass the Wall? And don’t even make it past Winterfell? I won’t deny this is a possibility but I’m not sure how I’d feel about it.

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    53. If Cersei’s army is at WF than the only way I can make sense of this is if it is late in the season and Cersei’s plan worked to perfection. The Targ/Stark forces defeated the WW but were so badly damaged that it became viable for Cersei to actually attempt to conquer the North and re-establish control of all of Westeros

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    54. Matthew The Dragon knight:
      would it make since if Euron took the golden company for himself and betrayed cersei ?he attacks Winterfell and takeover kingslanding ?
      a poor guess, but just a thought.

      There’s something to it. Euron is a mad dog. What if he decided to attack WF with GC on his own. During the siege, either Dany shows her with her Dragons, or WW devastate the GC. In both cases, GC is gone, Euron dead snd Cersei is all alone, waiting who is going to come and claim her throne, like Jaime did thirty years ago. IDK, that way they are solving the timeline issues.

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    55. Matthew The Dragon knight,

      He just may get to do one. I remember D&D saying it wasn’t their original plan for season seven to have so much battles, it should have been more dialog than anything. But as they were writing it, they discovered more action scenes were needed.

      And this season may top season seven with battles the way things are looking.

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    56. Hursta1,

      There’s also fire outside of the gates. The soldiers wouldn’t just be hanging around the fire if they were wights. Fire and wights do not mix.

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    57. if these are Lannister forces or the GC knocking at the doors of Winterfell, it could pretty well be while the StarkTargs are in a battle against the WW somewhere outside Winterfell.

      “hello, we are the Lannisters and we came to help you win the big war.”
      “oh nice, let’s go.”

      “sorry, we forgot something at Winterfell. we’ll be back on the battlefield in a minute.” (after sacking the castle stripped of it’s defenders…)

      this requires Jamie to be dead, captured or silenced any other way before he can warn WF of Cersei’s turn against them. the consequences would be: Cersei’s army having a stronghold in the north. and, those of our heroes who survive the battle against the WW will be forced to stay in the open, without protection and sh*t. if i was Cersei, i’d give it a try.

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    58. Well, perhaps this means that Jaime has taken some of the Lannister forces up north and is helping house stark/Targaryen

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    59. Sue the Fury,

      Well, it’s hard to tell how they mix up in the final version, when all the CGI is added. The defenders of WF would be using fire against any attackers – wights or human, I guess. Moreover, it’s not clear what they are filming: it might be the attack on the gates using a ram, as you have guessed, but it can equally be the defenters charging through the gate the way Tyrion did during the Battle of the Blackwater in S2.

      In general, I like the idea of Euron and the GC attacking WF: that villain has to have something to do. BUT, if that happens, it may happen only in the second half of the season (Ep5 would be the best guess) and Jon has to be elsewhere at that moment: chasing the NK and/or defending KL from his attack, I guess. But that raises the question how the NK will get by WF: he may try to besiege it and fail or he may try to bypass it to lure Jon into an open field (but there are no rumors about any open-field battle, right?). One way or another the NK should suffer a mid-season defeat, so that Cersei & Euron could assume that this threat has already been dealt with and resume the war against Stark-Targs. And it would be funny, if right after sending the GC north, Cersei found the NK knocking on the gates of KL. The sweet part of the bitter.

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    60. seems impossible for GC and lannisters ( loyal to cersei) to make it to winterfell before jon & Dany( they are on the way north already).

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    61. Chicken Generated Image,

      I don’t think that requires Jaime dead and I don’t think he’ll reveal Cersei’s plans to the Targ-Starks. Cersei is carrying his child and he loved her his entire life so he will be hoping that now, when he is joining the fray himself, she’ll reconsider and send the troops to help him even if nothing else bothers her. IMO, Jaime counts on that, if they help the Targ-Starks in the great war, Jon&Dany will be honor-bound to seek some sort of compromise with House Lannister and that is a legit assumtion. However, Cersei will doublecross that option with her own hands.

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    62. I don’t buy it that its the Lannister Army unless this is the last episode they are filming. For one, Cersei already said she is going to let the North and the dead fight and then she thinks she can defeat whoever survives. So if we are under the assumption the living survive, then I can see Cersei attacking whats left of the north

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    63. The Golden Company attacking Winterfell would be a big pile of rubbish. The Golden Company comes from the South, the North is in full on winter conditions. Winter is a natural defense against any force.

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    64. I’ve been reading the books for 20 years and watching it on HBO since GoT started. If this thing winds up with another Battle of Winterfell between human forces, I’m going to be totally pissed. I want to see a spectacular – not deus ex machina but something endemic and hinted at for all these years – maybe Ice Dragons bursting from their imprisonment in the remains of the Wall fighting the ghosts of 100 generations of Starks up from the crypts. Or the forces of R’llor cutting their way thru the legions of wights to atomize the White Walkers. At this point, I want the story to carry the characters, not the other way around. Before Dany or Jon or Cersie or Dolorous Edd wind up sitting on the Iron Throne, I want to see the grand fantasy culmination of decades of foreplay.

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    65. I believe people’s ‘sources’ as far as I can throw them, tbh, unless it is known what kind of connection they have. I could definitely see the NK and gang interrupting any human shenanigans.

      NK: “I call shenanigans!”
      Human beans: “Oh shit!”
      Dolorous Edd: “Totally called it. Of course. Why not? Always the same…” *incomprehensible muttering*

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    66. Dhruv,

      Correct. In previous seasons it was somewhat easy to estimate which episode was being filmed based on the director but since Season 8 will only have Nutter, Sapochnik, and D&D, it’s harder to tell which episode they’re filming.

      evenwind,

      I was reading an interview with Maisie (I think) who said that this last season will see more elements of fantasy (something along those lines). So I think it’s a fair guess that perhaps we’ll get to see something beyond ww & dragons. Well, hopefully haha.

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    67. Hursta1:
      Violator,

      To some the simple fact that she has a vagina is evidence enough that she will turn evil.

      Because she has a vagina..can turn mad or evil …Sexist logic..lol

      kathy:
      Artemisia,

      Jon is the combination of “Ice & Fire” through his parents already – Lyanna is the ice and Rhaeger the fire. I don’t think Dany is going to go mad and I don’t think she’ll die now after rewatching Season 7 again. It’s quite obvious that the mad queen will be Cersei…she’s already half way there and having 2 mad queens makes no sense at all.Dany doesn’t have to die for magic to die – only her dragons do and I expect they will by the end.That will be the ‘bittersweet’ – bitter because she loses her dragon children and sweet because she will have the human child she has always longed for.Sansa isn’t going to go mad either – not sure where you get that from, any victim of rape is angry and hurt after the fact but her character arcsets her up to become a leader in the show . I think the third twist has to do with Bran and his future given he’s supposed to be the key to the end game.

      i agree ..for Danny lives with child and husband again and for Jon being Ice and Fire..I disagree with the Sansa fact…She has become too moody and dark character..Some fans they saying that she will be Cercei no2….Thats true.. she has start to inherit some Cercei issues ..like jealousy,thirst for power,psychosis and jealousy for her brother/cousin..I see her now who Danny comes in the North ..being more darker and do things that never we can have imagine from her..I cant stand her..AND yes i think Bran might be the key to defeat the NK..He or Mellisandra might be end sacrifice themselves for the Lightbringer ..so the Danny [Azor]and Jon[Ahai]to have the chance to destroy the NK forever this time.

      Grail King: LOL
      Yes, I know your feelings. : )

      Grail King: I’m so GLAD I’m NEUTRAL on Danny; I’m getting popcorn to watch this one. :@)

      im very honest with what i want..When i see Dannys haters ..talking such so emotional[like wuss] and shaming themselves ..i enjoy to see them falling so low while eating my strawberries with a lot of honey [my fav healthy snack]..Thats a lot of fun for me..lol

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    68. Remember when Sansa tried to warn Jon about the threat of the armies of the South? FORESHADOWING! With Jon and Danaerys taking the long way around (remember she could have flown, they made a big deal about that) Euron has a head start. With Lanister forces guarding the South, this could be the Golden Company throwing the North into complete disarray and making them ripe for being overrun by the Army of the Dead. This would be an awesome twist. it would divide the Starks and bring forth yet another noble failure in Jon Snow’s long history of command decisions. The wild card here — Jamie Lanister. Cersi didn’t expect him to leave, can he intervene in time and be the element that unites everyone in the end?

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    69. kentmid: Remember when Sansa tried to warn Jon about the threat of the armies of the South? FORESHADOWING!

      That line felt like heavy foreshadowing at the time – so I agree this “Lannister/GC attack Winterfell” storyline seems very plausible.

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    70. kathy,

      I agree
      I think the end will be bittersweet because both Dany and Jon can’t Survive. One will die and the dream of spring will be their child.

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    71. Targcest:
      kathy,

      I agree
      I think the end will be bittersweet because both Dany and Jon can’t Survive. One will die and the dream of spring will be their child.

      May both dies ..and their child /successor sits on the Throne…Thats bittersweet too.Jon and Danny they had live similar lives,had make similar decisions and they should to share the same fate…dying or living ..There is no middle ground[one dies ,other lives]between this

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    72. Artemisia,

      There is a huge difference between them. Jon is already dead. And I think the Jon Snow we see is a fire wight like Beric ! If magic was to disappear from their world he would die.

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    73. evenwind:
      something endemic and hinted at for all these years – maybe Ice Dragons bursting from their imprisonment in the remains of the Wall fighting the ghosts of 100 generations of Starks up from the crypts.

      None of this has been ‘hinted at’ on the show. It wouldn’t be ‘endemic’ at all.

      ‘Endemic’ would be the Starks rising as NK’s zombies. And that would be actually pretty funny, especially if Jon got to meet his Mom after all. (Since Ned is a pile of bones, I’m unsure what would happen to him – would he reform into a skeleton? How would they know it’s him?)

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    74. Artemisia,

      Jon’s & Dany’s child on the throne will be neither bitter nor sweet: children are not their fathers or mothers and that child may grow into anything from a genious to a total fool and anything inbetween. Jon&Dany on the throne together would be a much better ending, even if it looks a bit too happy.

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    75. I don’t see Lannister soldiers at all just by looking to those tiny shadows in the horizon. For all I know those could very well be any soldiers, and I’ve seen northern soldiers with helmet like that. So let’s not jump the gun here. It’s not a confirmation, just a thought.

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    76. Agro,

      Exactly. These may be the Northern soldiers or the Knights of the Vale or the Unsullied charging out through the gates against the wights like Tyrion did during the Battle of the Blackwater. It can be wight soldiers of the former Stannis army reanimated by the Night King. It can be Lannister soldiers led by Jaime breaking the siege of Winterfell (IMO Jaime might be the right person for that mission, because now he is somewhere behind the Dothraki and will hardly make it to Winterfell before the Night King shows up there). So, there are many explanations other, that Euron/GC attacking Winterfell and even if that’s the case, the sequence may be from Ep5.

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    77. evenwind,

      What do you mean by “endemic”? I’ve read and heard that word as referring to something that occurs in a particular area. I am not sure what it means in a literary or narrative context.

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    78. Maybe Cersei goes after WF because she’s mad at Jamie and the NK takes the opportunity to go straight to Kings Landing while everyone is distracted… idk but it sure is exciting!!!!

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    79. kinda believing the guy who says hes a lannister extra. even if hes lyingi like the storyline. whatever love the leaks fake or not. thats a lannnister helmet i dont give a shit about some new house.

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    80. Ten Bears:
      evenwind,

      What do you mean by “endemic”? I’ve read and heard that word as referring to something that occurs in a particular area. I am not sure what it means in a literary or narrative context.

      I meant it to mean something that’s a built-in part of GRRM’s world, which is not necessarily part of the Real World. He’s decided on a complex mixture of real and fantasy elements. The fantasy has never been a big part of the day-to-day of the story but it’s always been there – so you’re comfortable with a dragon in the sky or pictures in a flame. I really want the story’s final climax be a combination of both real world and fantasy elements. If the ending has no strong fantasy elements but just amounts to another all-human battle at Winterfell and the subsequent crowning of one of the principals, then I might as well have been watching The Last Kingdom or The Vikings.

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    81. This makes no sense, but I believe it. I probably should be worried, since I’m a Stark fan, but idk I can’t stop laughing.

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    82. Which picture shows Lannister soldiers? You cant make out anything in any of these pictures. Way too much speculation without anything definitive here.

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    83. I put on my tinfoil hat and cranked up the voltage to 11, and this is all I could come up with. Kind of boring though:

      A couple of disgruntled Northerners who are angry over food rationing, or just greedy, will decide to storm WF and raid its stores when most of its armies are off fighting or patrolling.

      In S7e4, right before Sansa was interrupted by the awesome sight of Arya vs. Brienne sparring, Sansa was saying that “if they [Northern houses] haven’t contributed the right amount of grain to the stores then I’m afraid they’ll have to make due with –”

      Though Drogon didn’t burn all the food wagons in FoF 2.0 – Tarly and Jaime were still gathering food from the farmlands when Dany attacked – Cersei’s double-cross is going to mean any anticipated supply lines from the Reach to the Allied forces will be disrupted or won’t exist at all. With thousands of Dothraki and Unsullied to feed, xenophobic locals *cough* Lord Glover *cough* will decide they’re entitled to “redistribute” the food stored inside WF.

      I thought WF is supposed to be able to withstand a siege. My $2 says that while the rogue Northerners are busy trying to bust in, they don’t notice my boy NK and his posse are about to crash their party…

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    84. kathy,

      Jon isn’t ice and fire
      GRRM said this
      Ice and Fire isn’t about houses
      ” Everything what happened on the wall and dragon’s daughter another continent with dragons is title a song of Ice and fire” _ GRRM
      Rhaegar and Lyanna isn’t Ice and fire

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    85. Dragonqueen:
      kathy,

      Jon isn’t ice and fire
      GRRM said this
      Ice and Fire isn’t about houses
      ” Everything what happened on the wall and dragon’s daughter another continent with dragons is title a song of Ice and fire” _ GRRM
      Rhaegar and Lyanna isn’t Ice and fire

      This cannot be a verbatim quote from GRRM. He speaks and writes very well. I do not understand what the attributed quote means.

      Can you source it?

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    86. I find it a rather bad tactic for the Lannisters, via their mercenaries, to attack Winterfell. The Dothraki are in the plains and towards Dragonsone. They would easily cutoff their supplies and hit them from the rear on any journey up North. I guess it depends on where they are from a story standpoint, but the Dothraki made up alot of ground from Dragonstone to catch up to the Lannisters proper after their victory at Highgarden. How much easier as the Lannisters toil to get to Winterfell in the snow, now that winter has come? I mean, winter doomed Stannis, and winter wasn’t even here yet!! This really would make no sense from a tactical situation, unless the White Walkers were finished, or triumphant in the North. Remember, Cercei said they would wait out until that outcome was finished.

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    87. Ten Bears,

      It’s definitely GRRM, from this interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaPZGDlm2F4

      In response to a question about the three main plots (The Others, the conflict over the Iron Throne and Daenerys in Essos) he says:

      “Well, of course, the two outlying ones – the things that are going on north at The Wall and Daenerys Targaryen on the other continent with her dragons – are, of course, the ice and fire of the title, A Song of Ice and Fire.”

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    88. Ryan,

      Agreed. Most especially since she has a crazy blonde and two dragons looking to take away everyshe holds dear. Then again, filming is non-linear. Maybe Dany has been dealt with and this is afterwards?

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    89. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      Ahhh! Thank you for the verbatim quote you provided. Now I can comprehend it.

      P.S. Isn’t there something in the books where Rhaegar (?) describes one of his current or future offspring, and says he or she will have a song, ie the song of ice and fire? I haven’t read the books; I thought commenters have cited such a passage.

      Then again, there are so many instances of intersecting northern/ice and Targaryen/fire characters, symbols and themes, that just about anything could inspire a “song” of ice and fire — with enough tinfoil. (👨‍🚀🤖 *dons tinfoil helmet* Like…. Winterfell castle-forged steel sword + Valyrian Steel Targaryen heirloom dagger, wielded by same person = song of ice and fire. *takes off tinfoil helmet, runs away* 🏃)

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    90. Ten Bears: Isn’t there something in the books where Rhaegar (?) describes one of his current or future offspring, and says he or she will have a song, ie the song of ice and fire? I haven’t read the books; I thought commenters have cited such a passage.

      No. There aren’t any “flashback” chapters in the books yet either where the pov is in Rhaegar’s time, or any other past era, just characters saying things that have happened.

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    91. Ten Bears,

      I believe you’re referring to one of Dany’s many visions in the House of the Undying in Clash of Kings. They were incredibly spoilery so it was obvious why D&D didn’t include them in the show. I mean she had a vision of the Red Wedding a full book ahead of time.

      The vision Dany has is of Rhaeger and (presumably) Elia.

      “Aegon,” he said to a women nursing a newborn babe in a great wooden bed. “What better name for a king?”

      “Will you make a song for him?” the woman asked. “He has a song,” the man replied. “He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire.” He looked up when he said it and his eyes met Dany’s, and it seemed as if he saw her standing there beyond the door. “There must be one more” [ . . .]

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    92. Dark Sister,

      Yes, thank you! That’s what I was thinking of.

      Ordinarily, I try to avoid referencing books! content because I haven’t read them and it confuses (my) discussion of the show. However, I was preparing a reply to a Comment above about the PWWP + “song” of ice and fire, tracing Show! Melisandre’s flip-flopping PWWP predictions from S2 – S7, and wanted to compare her dialog with that books! scene I remembered people discussing here.

      So thanks again !

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    93. Dolorous Methuselah,

      it could yes. we have no idea if they’re shooting things in order of the story or in order of convenience and expediency for the production. I.E. the things that take the most special effects and post production are shot first. For all we know they could be shooting a flashback scene? I’m not going to quibble about it until we know more. For all we know this could be refugees from the other northern armies who are running from the WW army and for some reason or another they aren’t being let in. Maybe they’ve taken in all they can?

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    94. Ten Bears,

      No problem! Yup, the nature of prophecy equally flip-flops in the books. Probably one of the more poignant quotes about prophecy:

      “Gorghan of Old Ghis once wrote that a prophecy is like a treacherous woman. She takes your member in her mouth, and you moan with the pleasure of it and think, how sweet, how fine, how good this is … and then her teeth snap shut and your moans turn to screams. That is the nature of prophecy, said Gorghan. Prophecy will bite your prick off every time.” – Archmaester Marwyn to Samwell Tarly in A Feast for Crows 😂

      … so whoever the prophecy refers to, I don’t think it’s necessarily a good thing.

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    95. Ten Bears:

      The whole ice and fire thing is complex. I think there is more than one meaning to the term Song of Ice and Fire.

      One thing I would also add regarding Jon being both ice and fire is the historical Pact of Ice and Fire. During the Dance of the Dragons, Lord Cregan Stark negotiated his support for Rhaenyra with her son – his price was a Targaryen princess to wed. This agreement was known as the Pact of Ice and Fire (though Lord Cregan never did wed a Targaryen). That might be part of why Melisandre referred to bringing Jon (son of a Stark) and Daenerys (daughter of a Targaryen) together as bringing ice and fire together?

      The AA/PWWP prophecy is a mess and I think that both of them fulfill different aspects of it, sometimes literally and others metaphorically. Maybe we’re not meant to know which one of them it is.

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    96. Alba Stark: The whole ice and fire thing is complex.I think there is more than one meaning to the term Song of Ice and Fire.

      GRRM has said the same thing as well.

      Of course GRRM is not going to come out and say that the title refers to Jon as well, given that in his books, Jon is still dead and has not yet been revealed as a Targ.

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    97. ghost of winterfell:

      Of course GRRM is not going to come out and say that the title refers to Jon as well, given that in his books, Jon is still dead and has not yet been revealed as a Targ.

      Exactly!

      Ten Bears:

      I wanna see Daenerys give Arya flying lessons.

      I don’t know if there will be time for something like that, but I’d love to see it myself – especially after the Arya/Tywin scene in season 2 in which she spoke of her admiration for Visenya.

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    98. Alba Stark: Exactly!

      I don’t know if there will be time for something like that, but I’d love to see it myself – especially after the Arya/Tywin scene in season 2 in which she spoke of her admiration for Visenya.

      Yes! I loved that show-only (?) scene between Arya and Tywin, and recently noticed that during Davos’s reading lessons with Shireen, he also recited the history of Visenya Targaryen and her dragon.

      I’ve also wondered if Arya’s comment to Tywin that Visenya had “a Valaryian steel sword she called Dark Sister” was a throwaway line – or meant something more…

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    99. From S2e7:

      ***
      Arya): “Rhaenys rode Meraxes. Visenya rode Vhagar.”

      Tywin: “I’m sure I knew that when I was a boy.”

      Arya (with admiration): “Visenya Targaryen was a great warrior. She had a Valyrian steel sword she called Dark Sister.”

      Tywin: “She’s a heroine of yours, I take it….”

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    100. Ten Bears: A couple of disgruntled Northerners who are angry over food rationing, or just greedy, will decide to storm WF and raid its stores when most of its armies are off fighting or patrolling.

      Food is definitely going to be a massive issue in season 8, you are right. Even though onyl characters mentioned it (Jaime and Sansa), the topic was breached with enough vigour and repetition that it firmly qualifies as foreshadowing.
      I believe it was Firannion who, on another thread, wrote a great post about how messy and heartbreaking the matter of food is likely to get at Winterfell, how the Stark household’s “safe haven” status is going to attract everyone fleeing from the White Walkers to the point that food supplies will become insufficient… Things are very likely to turn incredibly ugly on this particular front.

      Could the Northern lords try to storm Winterfell’s food stocks because they disagree with the allocation system put in place ? They could. All the more so if a healthy chunk of it is used to feed Daenerys’s troops to the detriment of Northern people.

      As for the photos, I have no idea whose army is on them. I wish I were better at identifying those details but, rather pathetically so, I am not. I cannot, for the life of me, see any distinctive feature on the armours to make an even barely educated guess. Not knowing when in the story the pictures fit does not help either ^^

      So, for my crapshoot theory, I am going to fly blind, so to speak and say that parts of Winterfell are set on fire because some wights breached the walls and burning them (along with everything around them) is the only way to go to save the majority of the people who took refuge in the castle.
      Option number 2 : the flames we see in the pictures will be turned blue in post-production and the “fire” is Zombie Viserion’s work. After all, it seems unlikely that the Night King would only use his new pet’s “fire” power to take down the Wall; he has to find other uses for his latest creation.

      In both cases, the army on the other side of the walls would therefore be either Northern troops or the Knights of the Vale (or both) fighting off whatever undead pests also happen to surround the castle.

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    101. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      This is your interpretation of the interview. Did you want GRRM to open up the revelation that Jon is ice and fire? If so, he did not need to hide this revelation in all the books released.

      GRRM could not name Jon because the revelation about Jon being Targaryen and Stark he still did not reveal in the books, if he did he would have spoiled the revelation in the books. But it is a fact that we have the extremes of who is Dany who is fire and the side of the wall that is ice, but only you have forgotten that the one who called Dany and the Wall will be Jon Snow, he is the middle of the story that will unite the two extremes and being thus he is the means (song) of that history that will connect the extremes.

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    102. Ok so am i the only person thinking people are overshooting here?!.

      This could be a scene showing a small force of Lannister men Jaime has rallied to the cause to honor the oath given by Cersei. He may stop and any number of Lannister controlled places including pulling any forces left at Riverrun. So it could be Lannister men along side everyone else in a fight against the NK forces.

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    103. Liz Marcs,

      You can as easily say that Jon is ice (representing the North/the Starks) and Dany is fire. Even if Jon has Targaryen blood, he is by nurture only “ice”.

      There are numerous different ice/fire motifs in the story.

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    104. I haven’t read the comments yet just in case there are any spoilers contained but this has blown my mind. I’ve been staying spoiler free but I certainly never expected anything other than potentially a white walker attack at Winterfell.

      At first I was thinking how would these forces get through Moat Cailin but then they are expecting them to come North and work with Team Targ but clearly there will be a double cross at the last minute which works. The only complication is Jamie, could he potentially be imprisoned for pushing Bran out of the window in S1?

      I don’t want to know spoilers so please don’t post any but I’m actually excited by this.

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    105. SerNoName: The Lannisters/GC attacking the Starks before they can even take on the WW, if true, must be the stupidest thing that Cersei has done till date.

      Like what’s her plan? She did see that wight right?

      This only continues to enforce that Tyrion’s wight hunt plan was a complete waste of time. I think by the time the show is over, the Lannisters will rank above the Starks in terms of stupidest house.

      It may be quite smart.If she ensures that her human foes are defeated as a result of this she can then plan her own defence of the realm. I assume this is her rationale and remember she told them she would send her forces North so they can just stroll in and Team Targ won’t even expect an attack.

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    106. Rhoynish Prince:
      Aren’t you supposed to alert of Spoilers? This is huge

      The admins on this site do a fantastic job but must admit I wondered why there was no spoiler warning on this one. It’s the only plot based spoiler I know although it’s very vague still so plenty of scope for speculation which I also enjoy, pretty glad I read this but would ask for any future articles to have spoilers in the header.

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    107. Sean C.,

      People complicate what is simple what is in the face and why they will be disappointed both at the end of the show and in the books.
      The fact that Jon is Targaryen and Stark will only be revealed in the final part of the GRRM books and this is no coincidence and today we know before appearing in the books because Show revealed that R (fire) + L (Ice) = Jon snow Ice, and Fire) (although I’ve worked on it since my first reading of the first book many before the show).
      I always had the idea that Jon was the song and that it would be the connection of Daenerys that represents the Fire with the Dragoes with the wall (King of the Night) that represents the Ice. Jon Snow is between the extremes of Ice and Fire, for he is what represents these two extremes, for it is the sum of the two.
      I think the end of the books will be bitter for those who do not understand and think that Jon or Daenerys die and they want a tragic ending.

      Daenerys / Dragons (Fire) — Jon Snow extreme connector (Ice and Fire) — Wall /North / NK (Ice). That simple!

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    108. ACME,

      I would hope the defenders would have crossbows with DG-tipped bolts, and have dug a moat fulled with oil to create a flaming barrier again undead attackers. If not, setting “controlled” fires inside the walls is a recipe for disaster – for the defenders.

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    109. Alba Stark,

      “I don’t know if there will be time for something like that, but I’d love to see it myself – especially after the Arya/Tywin scene in season 2 in which she spoke of her admiration for Visenya..”
      ________________

      If there was enough tine in S6 for Sansa to talk with Jon about Old Nan’s soup, and time for the High Sparrow to drone on and on with his hypocritical religious drivel, then there should be two minutes for Daenerys Targaryen to give Arya a flying lesson, soar above the clouds, and give her a glimpse of what’s west of Westeros.

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    110. Ten Bears:

      If there was enough tine in S6 for Sansa to talk with Jon about Old Nan’s soup, and time for the High Sparrow to drone on and on with his hypocritical religious drivel, then there should be two minutes for Daenerys Targaryen to give Arya a flying lesson, soar above the clouds, and give her a glimpse of what’s west of Westeros.

      This made me smile!

      I think what I meant was that with the Wall having fallen, by the time Dany and co. reach Winterfell (assuming they do, of course) I think their time will be filled up pretty quickly between planning for how to counteract the approaching Army of the Dead and dealing with the fallout from Bran’s revelation that Jon isn’t Ned’s son.

      I definitely think there is the screen time for it, but whether the characters can set aside their big world matters for it is another matter, sadly.

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    111. Ten Bears,
      The dragonglass has not reached Winterfell yet so we cannot really know how much time northern troops will have to manufacture weapons with the material. As for the moat full of oil, it could be a great idea but we have seen the Night King cross the fire barrier the Children of the Forest built. Also, I fear oil would solidify if left outdoors in the North’s winter, thereby becoming quite useless as a defensive tool. Furthermore, filling a moat with oil would require immense quantities of the stuff and we have no idea whether the region has that kind of resource.

      Overall, I do agree with you that setting parts of Winterfell on fire would be one hell of a risky strategy but if some wights breach the walls, it may be the only way to get rid of them.

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    112. ACME:
      The dragonglass has not reached Winterfell yet so we cannot really know how much time northern troops will have to manufacture weapons with the material.

      Normally I’d agree with you. But over the years, the writers have shown us that time is a variable in GoT. Whether it’s Littlefinger appearing suddenly hundreds of miles from where he was last seen or Euron’s fleet traveling from one side of Westeros to the other in basically no time at all, the story takes precedence over logic. If the defenders of Winterfell need dragonglass weapons, they’ll have them – probably with very little (or no) explanation. They’ll certainly waste no time on how hard it is to learn to knapp obsidian – even with Bran as a reference manual. The only thing that I could see them devoting time to is if they do a bit about Bran and/or Sam discovering that Valyrian steel is actually regular steel + dragonglass (a pet theory of mine) and that Gendry figures out how to cast arrowheads and spearpoints by the ton.

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    113. evenwind,

      “They’ll certainly waste no time on how hard it is to learn to knapp obsidian – even with Bran as a reference manual.”
      ————————-

      Is “knapp” an industry term or non-English word meaning to chip, flake or sculpt? I’ve never heard that word before. (I learn new vocabulary words on WotW at least once a week.🤓)

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    114. Alba Stark,

      If the last six episodes of GoT consist of wall-to-wall [pun intended] battle scenes, I’d understand. For me, though, it was the quieter, character-driven moments that drew me in and kept me engaged. The three-minute scene of Jon Snow saying goodbye to Arya and giving her Needle made more of a lasting impression (on me) than ~ 20 minutes of Jon Snow swordfighting in Battle of the Bastards.

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    115. Ten Bears: Is “knapp” an industry term or non-English word meaning to chip, flake or sculpt? I’ve never heard that word before.

      Yes. It’s actually knap with one P. You’d know the word if you’d read the Earth’s Children series by Jean Auel (The Clan of the Cave Bear and sequels). Stone-Age superwoman Ayla and her hunky boyfriend Jondalar spend a whole lot of pagetime knapping flint tools.

      To her credit, the author actually studied flint-knapping as part of her hands-on research into Neolithic technologies. She describes the shaping techniques in detail and conveys a healthy respect for what a painstakingly difficult art it is to execute well. Obsidian being more glassy and fragile than flint, it was more prone to breakage, both during the knapping process and afterwards, and thus was reserved mainly for decorative ceremonial implements rather than sturdy tools for everyday use.

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    116. ACME: filling a moat with oil would require immense quantities of the stuff and we have no idea whether the region has that kind of resource.

      Don’t forget that Winterfell does have an endlessly replenished on-site source of very hot water from its thermal springs. True, it can’t be set aflame; but perhaps the scalding heat (and likely acrid sulfuric off-gassing) might serve as an effective disincentive to crossing by wights. Surely you’ve heard this joke:

      Q: What do you call a leper in a Jacuzzi?

      A: Stew.

      Tyrion, that mastermind of Casterly Rock’s drainage systems, would be just the man to figure out in a jiffy how to divert the springwater from Winterfell’s internal heating network into the moat.

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    117. evenwind: Normally I’d agree with you. But over the years, the writers have shown us that time is a variable in GoT.

      That is a very fair point. They could fastforward through the manufacturing process.

      Firannion: Don’t forget that Winterfell does have an endlessly replenished on-site source of very hot water from its thermal springs. True, it can’t be set aflame; but perhaps the scalding heat (and likely acrid sulfuric off-gassing) might serve as an effective disincentive to crossing by wights.

      Hmm, I like this idea. An awful lot ! And I like Tyrion figuring it out even more ! It would be a delightful payback for his failure with the Casterly Rock attack.

      Overall, I do wonder how efficient any defensive system could objectively be now that the Night King has a weapon that can both fly and vomit ice/fire (the show has not made that particularly clear) from above but any good idea will help. So I’ll take Tyrion’s underground work over nothing any day of the week.

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    118. Ten Bears:

      If the last six episodes of GoT consist of wall-to-wall [pun intended] battle scenes, I’d understand. For me, though, it was the quieter, character-driven moments that drew me in and kept me engaged. The three-minute scene of Jon Snow saying goodbye to Arya and giving her Needle made more of a lasting impression (on me) than ~ 20 minutes of Jon Snow swordfighting in Battle of the Bastards.

      I don’t think it will consist of wall-to-wall (I love puns btw) battle sequences. I do think we will have those character moments – but I think it will be things like Jon’s emotional reaction to his parentage, Daenerys’s reaction to learning she isn’t the only Targaryen left in the world, and of Viserion’s fate. It will be Sansa and Tyrion reuniting and him finding real truth in his words to Jon about how smart she is. It will be Jaime figuring out how he can redeem himself and finding that perhaps his “bloody honor” isn’t beyond repair.

      I really want to see Arya riding a dragon (I totally think Jon would be up for taking her for a spin on Rhaegal – and him on a dragon is definitely something I think we will see), but I think the character moments we have will be focused elsewhere. I also loved Jon gifting Arya with Needle, and in both book and show never fail to shed a tear when she can’t throw it away in Braavos. I think we get character moments between them, just not on the back of a dragon, sadly.

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    119. ACME: I do wonder how efficient any defensive system could objectively be now that the Night King has a weapon that can both fly and vomit ice/fire (the show has not made that particularly clear) from above but any good idea will help. So I’ll take Tyrion’s underground work over nothing any day of the week.

      Simmering water might not hold back the wight wave forever, even if Viserion is occupied elsewhere. But it might buy the defenders some time needed for someone to find the magical Stark MacGuffin hidden in the crypts or the Vale cavalry to arrive or whatever, while the hourglass ticks down to zero to raise our pulse rates in classic action-thriller fashion.

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    120. Firannion: But it might buy the defenders some time needed for someone to find the magical Stark MacGuffin hidden in the crypts or the Vale cavalry to arrive or whatever, while the hourglass ticks down to zero to raise our pulse rates in classic action-thriller fashion.

      Ha ha ! How very true !

      Me thinks the Knights of the Vale time their entrances to ensure maximum dramatic effect. They must rehearse this kind of stuff at night, when everyone is asleep…

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    121. evenwind,

      Thank you! Now I have a rudimentary knowledge of knapping – and I am one step closer to nailing down the details of my Three-Layered Ultra-Tinfoil Theory. 👨‍🚀🤖

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    122. Firannion,

      If this all comes down to a “magical Stark MacGuffin hidden in the crypts” – and I know you meant that facetiously – they may as well have Captain R”hllor and the Starship Enterprise drop out of warp in Episode 6 and fire photon torpedoes at the White Walkers.

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    123. If the oldest Stark in the crypts is called “Tony” and he’s got this special suit of iron armor buried with him – will that work as a magical McGuffin?

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