About a month ago we reported on the goings-on at Moneyglass, where the Winterfell set stands. Though we did point out “construction work at Moneyglass is par for the course,” the remodeling for season eight appeared to be particularly extensive at the castle’s walls — as if they were getting the set ready for a defensive battle sequence… Now, we may have not seen a White Walker around yet, but a new photo gives us a clear view of the nearly finished set — and the set expansion is even greater than we thought!
Based on previous photos, we speculated the walls and gate towers were being refurbished, but now, thanks to Roy Dowie, it’s clear the work went beyond that:
@paulorossradio being a Got fan have u seen this in Moneyglass pic.twitter.com/tOySPkiDGN
— Roy Dowie (@spud1818) October 17, 2017
For starters, the outer walls now include crenellations, which are not only new for the Moneyglass set (though other parts already had them) but also for the fictional castle, which was always depicted with simpler battlements on the outer walls. For comparison:
The towers, on the other hand, have always been there when we watch the show — but not on the set, or not entirely: though there were foundations, the top of the gate towers and the guard towers were achieved via VFX. If they are bothering to actually build the crenellated walls and towers, that can only mean we’ll see actors interact with these defensive fortifications for the first time. The addition of so much snow piled up on the outside of the walls also points to that side being filmed, which has rarely been done.
All of this leads me to one inescapable conclusion: the production is getting the set ready for an attack. Though it’s something we all imagined, nonetheless it’s worthy of note now that there is actual evidence — Winterfell is getting sieged.
As an aside, two fun little interviews have surfaced, one of them with Paul Kaye, who plays Thoros of Myr — or rather played him, until a really pissed off bear got in the way:
“[M]y ruckus with the zombie polar bear was filmed in Belfast,” Kaye tells Den of Geek. “I was fighting with some guy in a green suit holding a flaming wheelbarrow. It couldn’t get further from what ends up on telly!” he says, echoing the honesty of fellow cast member Rory McCann, who made us all laugh with “No, you’re not [a bear]; your name’s Toby!”
If the formation of the Brotherhood without Banjos wasn’t telling enough, Kaye exalts the camaraderie that was formed between the so-called “Magnificent Seven” during all those weeks in Iceland and Wolf Hill Quarry in Northern Ireland: “I’ll miss the boys. We all got on so well. Rory McGann [sic] and Richard Dormer and Kit [Harington] and Kristof [Hivju], Joe Dempsie… we all got on brilliantly. A great little gang.”
Finally, for Digital Spy, Kit Karington gets emotional about the end of Game of Thrones:
“Thrones is coming to the end at the right time for me, and everyone involved in it,” Harington claims. “I was exchanging emails with [showrunners] David [Benioff] Dan [Weiss] last night and we were all getting very soppy and emotional with each other.”
But it’s not all sadness: “It will be liberating, just the thought of having a whole year free — you shoot for six months, but half of the projects you might want to do will have started shooting before that six months is over. There’s a lot of things you can’t do. I’m looking forward to finishing, and eight years is the right amount of time. I wouldn’t want it to go on any longer than it has. I have other ideas I’d like to look at producing,” he says, in reference to the new show in which he is the star and producer: “I found the producing side of Gunpowder fascinating. I would like to do more of it. I’ve found it’s opened up a different side of my creative brain, which I’ve really enjoyed.”
“Game of Thrones is coming to a very quick end, which I’m feeling emotional about,” he admits. “I’ve learned working with the Thrones producers what the job involves.”
I don’t know about learning to be a producer, but I think we all share Harington’s bittersweet feelings about the show coming to an end. We all want the satisfaction of a resolution, but that also means there is no more Game of Thrones!
The King Who Kneeled !
The set looks amazing! Maybe they start shooting WF scenes first.
They usually start filming inside the Paint Hall. Also, the Winterfell set doesn’t seem to be completely finished. You can see at the right of the image that some of the wall hasn’t been made to look like rock yet.
I’m at this point uncertain how the writers are going to handle the Night King having a dragon. At first glance, you’d figure that he would just be able to nuke Winterfell from the air in the same manner that Aegon destroyed Harrenhal. But these preparations are clearly for a ground assault by the army of the dead.
You could argue, of course, that Drogon and Rhaegal will be present during this siege and will be fighting the Night King in an air war simultaneously, but that it seems like that should immediately be the decisive encounter of the war. Either Dany’s dragons win, and then destroy the army of the dead, or the Night King wins, at which point he destroys Winterfell.
he is emotional because ..next season is going to die killing the NK in an ala Gladiator movie ending..I hope not ..but is very very possible ..maybe he gives his life saving Danny and their supposed child from the NK..That will be pretty noble and heartbreaking in the same time..His character is born for to die for noble things..He doesnt afraid the death …Very very brave..
It looks like they made the entry door to the castle taller and wider. So, that is supposed to be snow at the bottom of the walls? would that be plaster or something? I can’t imagine it’s cool enough there for snow to last. Does anyone remember if they started building snow a few seasons ago for Sansa and Theon to jump into when they escaped? Not that it matters, what matters is that you are right, Winterfell is going to be under siege, so Sansa was right to start collecting food so early. I’d be excited, but it’s so long a wait…
Yeah, I reckon if they plan to do more filming and more action close up on more areas around the Winterfell perimeter they’d want it all to be somewhat similar. The section Sansa and Theon jumped off of had crenelations as well.
It’s not real snow. It’s never been real snow. The thing they use doesn’t melt.
“All of this leads me to one inescapable conclusion: the production is getting the set ready for an attack. Though it’s something we all imagined, nonetheless it’s worthy of note now that there is actual evidence — Winterfell is getting sieged.”
Holy cow! That’s some Zero Dark Thirty-level deductive analysis. You don’t work for the CIA, do you? (Oops, I guess you’d have to deny it even if you do.)
Im wonder also if those email that he received are the official leaks and if we will get them released somehow now who filming has starting
That view/gate is supposed to be from the south, correct?
When I imagined the season, I decided that the battle in Winterfell should be in one of the first episodes, so that the dead are given a chance to at least threaten the South.
My idea was that things would start with a siege, but then turn into a retreat for the humans. Dany’s dragons would shield the retreat (similar to S7E6). The NK wouldn’t destroy Winterfell because he wants it to be his new ‘capital’/command post. (He may, or may not be, canonically related to the Starks, ‘there must always be a Stark in Winterfell’, etc..)
Basically, Winterfell:New WW Capital::Minas Ithil:Minas Morgul. Also, Viserion will totally perch on the towerlets at some point.
That’s maybe viable on a plot level (if a little logistically difficult to stage), but on a story level I don’t think that works. The Starks will not retreat from Winterfell or abandon the North; not only have we already had that story beat, it happening now goes against the core of what the Stark family is for, on a fundamental level. When winter comes, they hold the North. Retaking and rebuilding Winterfell has all been leading to that.
I don’t think that precludes them threatening the south, as Winterfell under siege can be circumvented.
They’ll need better guards ;-}.
Crikey, they’ll need all the Living if the NK’s army descends on them. Winterfell will be seiged; I hope it won’t be seized. The big debate is whether Winterfell will be a battle or the battle of S8. I suspect the ultimate battle/confrontation/pact will be at the Gods Eye.
Anyway, thank you for the update, Luka. And for the Paul Kaye titbit. We’ll all miss Thoros, mainly because he brought such life and a twinkle to him.
Kit’s going to be sad when it’s over? What the heck are the rest of us going to do for good stories? I read this site every day, I still watch rerunathons – and probably will keep doing it after it’s over. At least we still have the books coming!
Another thing…I just read the new Dan Brown book – Origins. Comparing it to GRRM’s books, it’s utter crap. I guess I’m biased.
I think it is pretty obvious that Winterfell will be the location for the WW and NK plot climax. I can’t see the story ending in a bittersweet way if the army of the dead reach any further south, it would mean two things; 1. The Starks and the rest of the cast either die in battle or will have to retreat from Winterfell. This would not be fitting since they already lost it once. I pretty certain they won’t let it happen again, it would all just feel so hopeless if Winterfell was sacked a second time. Also, where would they go?
2. If the NK would reach the Gods eye or KL it would mean that pretty much the entire north and the Riverlands would have been terminated. Half of Westeros would already be dead, it wouldn’t feel like a victory for the living in the end. It’s just way to crazy.
Besides, the story began at Winterfell, so it’s only fair it ends there. Also, I think a lot of people are mixing in book stuff in their analyzes, the Gods eye isn’t really even a show location. It has no meaning for casual viewers or the show lore overall.
What I’m really curious about is the Cercei and KL plot. Will it be resolved before or after the NK is defeated? Will it end in KL? Feels likely that Cercei will die there, seeing as she has only spent 2 ep outside of it. She is extremely bound to the city and the Iron throne. This part intrigues me the most about the final season, didn’t expect her to survive s.7, but in hindsight I am really glad she did.
The Nights King is a greenseer, he likely knows that Bran is at Winterfell, he will know that there are dragons at Winterfell. Winterfell is also the only place where people might be semi prepared for an attack.
I ve always had a strong feeling that the Nights King and the main army would march right pass Winterfell on their way South. There are a lot more undefended people within the South that the Nights King could use to enlarge his army even further. The Nights King has to go South, otherwise the White Walkers was never a big threat.
There could also be something that is protecting Winterfell, or it has something to do with the fact that the Nights King himself might be a Stark.
He could send one White Walker and a few wights to Winterfell, in order to keep them busy. But I think the main undead army along with the Nights King might just go directly South.
I guess I’m not going to be trying out Game of Thrones: Conquest. It’s not compatible with my Galaxy Note 3. Yeah, I know it’s probably time to get a new phone but I haven’t had a good reason to yet. 😛
You’re absolutely correct, and that’s my only issue with my speculation. Winterfell has already been taken, and fought for/retaken. While it would be ‘realistic’ that it should be taken again (especially *because* it has changed hands so many times recently), it’s not a very ‘storylike’ solution.
But holding the siege isn’t much of a story option, either. The ‘fighter’ characters (Dany, Jon, Arya) will have to be with the army. The ‘civilian’ ones (Sansa, Tyrion) will have to be in safety. Do you see Jon allowing Sansa to remain alone with some small army in Winterfell, holding the siege? Or do you see him sitting the siege while the WW move South and Dany fights them alone? If Viserion had not been raised, Dany and presumably Jon could just fly to-and-fro between the fronts. But he had.
One of the cool options would be to completely revert this reasoning and have Winterfell to be taken by the NK as a sign of some sort of final sacrifice/finality. As in, once the NK is destroyed, Winterfell will *not* be rebuilt. Because the story of the Starks will have come to its end. ~~bittersweet~~
I’m actually going to be somewhat disappointed if the army of the dead doesn’t make it to King’s Landing.
It wouldn’t feel like they were much of a threat if they’re defeated in the North.
I think it would be the fairest solution if they took Winterfell (thus upping the ante) but were repelled (in a desperate defense) before King’s Landing. It’s right that locations such as God’s Eye don’t matter to show-only viewers. But how about Harrenhall? We’ve seen it, in the first seasons, and it’s pretty centrally situated.
e: Moving on with the LotR analogy, King’s Landing would be Minas Tirith (obviously), and Harrenhall would be… Osgiliath, I guess?
A large enough battle at the Isle of Faces would probably involve Harrenhal anyway. Whether the island is chosen as a last stand or for some mystic reason, Harrenhal is the closest stronghold, at the northern shore of the Gods Eye lake, just where the Isle of Faces is. So the Harrenhal idea works very well! My main concern about setting the climax in the Isle of Faces always was that it’s never been mentioned in the show, but Harrenhal we know very well.
There are plenty of locations where the final showdown could take place, but just imagine the visuals of the dead invading King’s Landing, Cercei being confronted with White Walkers and dragons battling over the Red Keep.
Also, Dany’s vision showed a partly destroyed throne room, which will have to be addressed before the end. Might be dragons, might be wildfire (unlikely, since the Throne and the lower parts of the halls were still relatively intact) but not showing it would be a bit anti-climactic.
Regardless of what happens at Winterfell, when the show airs it will be over quickly. Too quickly for my taste. I hate to say it but my theory is that either Dany or Jon will die (technically he’s died before). Melissandre is coming back because she is going to die in Westeros. I somehow don’t think she’ll be resurrecting him again. Bittersweet means the end will be really good, it’s also going to be very sad….Either way OUR watch is ending along with the show:(
King in the Southwest,
I don’t think the potential scale of the threat of the Night King and the Army of the Dead can ever be comprehensively realised due to the limitations and practicalities of depicting them on-screen.
They’ve already recently inserted a couple of narrative shortcuts (ie. dragonglass killing wights & the Night King’s death acting as a kill switch for the entire army) to make things more straightforward.
You need only look at the limited depiction of Daenerys’ invasion in Season 7 to see that the producers are having to be conservative and take shortcuts.
The decision to end the show in 13 episodes spread over the 7th and 8th seasons hasn’t helped matters.
But narratively it makes sense that the responsibility for defeating the Night King falls to Dany and The North, while the south remains sheltered and self-interested and still focused on the petty politics of the Seven Kingdoms like their current queen.
And practically, I think the producers will want to get the White Walkers done and dusted in as straightforward a manner as possible. Depicting them conquering castles all over Westeros and besieging both Winterfell and King’s Landing and then ultimately being defeated is probably too ambitious and overcomplicated.
But, we’ll see. Maybe we’ll get a continent-wide conflict. I doubt it though. King’s Landing will probably be left for the human survivors to deal with.
Nah. Jon aint dying.
“I fought. I lost. Now I rest. But you, Lord Snow, you’ll be brooding forever.”
– A. Thorne
Either Jon takes out the NK with Long Claw, or Arya does that cool VS dagger flip and slices NK’s neck.
Wow. The set looks amazing! And that side is facing open land and the main road… they’re gonna have one helluva job keeping shooting under wraps, unless they close the road (which is the main access road through Moneyglass). Once the filming schedule is known, I’m gonna try and head over again.
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
True, but even those shortcuts look impressive.
Most GoT action spectacles rarely last longer than 20 minutes, but I don’t think anyone can say any of them didn’t look absolutely amazing. I mean, we don’t need a whole hour of the dead running through the streets of KL, just a couple of scenes, which is entirely in the realm of possibilities.
At this point in the series I believe it’s perfectly doable, they now have the time and the money to pull it off. I mean, Lord of the Rings (extended) was about 250 million for 11 hours of film. GoT has around 100 million for 6-8 hours of film. Yes, it’s still a relatively small budget in comparison, but just imagine what they can do with a 30 million episode five.
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
I don’t know. They repeatedly emphasized that the densely-packed population of KL = 1,000,000. That’s 1 million oblivious recruits for the Army of the Dead. By contrast, the North is vast and sparsely populated (going by persons per square mile), and the people are gonna be locked and loaded. Lyanna Mormont has already ordered every man, woman, boy and girl on Bear Island to begin training.
Maybe NK will stop at Deepwood Motte along the way and take out whiney Lord Glover. Otherwise, he might head straight to KL first. Undead Viserion vs. 1 million defenseless, clueless people? Sounds like a plan to me.
Then NK’s got a million soldiers marching north, and the rest of his guys ambling south. Perhaps WF will be the last stronghold…
Oh, almost forgot: 90% of the human population may die of starvation even before NK and his posse reach a populated area. A widespread famine has been foreshadowed – well I should say shouted at us – since Season 1.
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
I agree with the shortcut route. I think The Army of the Dead will spread and take over much of Westeros, making it look like there’s no chance for them to be defeated, but someone will kill the Night King and that’s what will end the war.
Just when it looks like all is lost, someone will kill the Night King, perhaps in a sacrificial way in order to save Westeros. I think Jon fits the bill for this, but just my opinion.
I think I’ve just regretted not arsing to check where Gods Eye actually is. 😛 Yeah, if it’s right next to Harrenhal, and they stop there, Jon can just say to Dany, “Hey, remember those caves on Dragonstone? 😉 Well, Bran’s just told me there’s a whole island of Children artifacts nearby. Wanna fly check it out?”
King in the Southwest,
I thought it was commonly agreed that that vision has been already realised? She was almost winning in the war with Cersei, but asked for ceasefire and chose to go beyond the Wall instead. The damaged throne was a metaphor for a damaged kingdom, or something.
“Burn the villages, burn the farms.”
– Tywin “the Nearsighted” Lannister
“The Lords of Westeros are trying to destroy the countryside.”
“Half the country is starving.”
– Anguy/Thoros S3
“Drogon, see those food wagons? Dracarys!”
– Daenerys T.
“The Northern houses haven’t contributed enough grain… Damn! Is that my annoying little sister kicking ass against Brienne?”
– The Lady of Winterfell
If it was commonly agreed then I wasn’t there for that meeting.
Personally I don’t buy the ‘it was a metaphor’ explanation. This is something I might have expected from Lost or Battlestar Galactica, not Game of Thrones.
(I liked both shows, just wasn’t thrilled by their ending)
Ten Bears … oh sweet summer child..Im hoping Jon lives along with Danny..but i cant imagine him without dying for a selfless/noble purpose and killing the NK in the process ..As for Arya ..im hoping she got Cerceis neck slew this season..This crazy lion bitch should to got a slowly painful bloody death
That has the same problem, thematically. If any location is going to be sacked by the army of the dead, it will be King’s Landing, not Winterfell. Winterfell has been preparing itself (and the North, by extension) for the Long Night, while Cersei and the rest of Westeros sat idle and played their own games. If Winterfell falls anyway and the climax becomes about defending King’s Landing (again), what’s the payoff for the south’s neglect? Seems like they end up just fine despite doing nothing, while the people who prepared get shellacked anyway.
King in the Southwest,
“Most GoT action spectacles rarely last longer than 20 minutes, but I don’t think anyone can say any of them didn’t look absolutely amazing.”
Sapochnik. Last 20 minutes of “Hardhome.” First 20 minutes of BoB. Need I say more? I’m confident we’ll be seeing “absolutely amazing” action spectacles in S8.
Why can’t it be both?
I fully expect that the WW and AotD are going to be portrayed as an unstoppable force for at least the first four episodes. This is pretty much basic storytelling. They will likely destroy everything they come across. Who knows, maybe Dany loses yet another dragon or another major character ends up paying the price.
By the time episode five hits I assume every attempt at stopping them will have failed. Perhaps it all comes down to blowing up the entire city with wildfire, while Drogon battles both of his undead siblings and Jon goes after the Night King.
Now I kind of want this to happen. Sounds awesome.
First, you’re forgetting, the North participated in these games with relish, until very recently. They have only started to prepare last season. And they had been warned back in S1E1! While the South had really gotten their warning in S7E7.
So, if one wishes to be so judgemental and Old Testament-like as to claim that ‘neglect should be punished,’ as you do, a defeat in the North can be the payoff for Ned Stark’s original sin of cutting off that deserter’s head. That guy never got his justice, didn’t he? (Well, maaaybe when that same sword cut off his executioner’s head… but maybe not.)
And second, as per Jon in S7E7, there’s no North and South anymore. Just people, standing on the side of humanity or being selfish. So, you’d be essentially punishing the entire South for Cersei’s personal selfishness.
I don’t think it was a metaphor. Remember Bran’s vision of a dragon flying over King’s Landing? I think that vision coupled with the destruction of the Throne Room in Dany’s vision tells me that the destruction of King’s Landing will be happening. Or at least the destruction of the Red Keep.
Oh, and I prefer my games with relish on the side. I’m more of a ketchup and mustard kind of guy.
Maybe they explore the idea of deterance. Neither Dany and Jon want to attack with the dragons for fear of losing one and NK doesn’t either because a 2 v 1 is tough and he doesn’t want to end up without Vicerion.
That or the NK avoids Winterfell entriely and heads south on his dragon while a big chunk of his army attacks WF
I’m picking this one.
The Night King probably knows that Winterfell will be the most heavily guarded Castle/stronghold in Westeros, so he’ll simply build up his army by attacking everyone else first and then setting his sites on Winterfell last.
I like that idea too.
Then the living win the battle at WF and have to decide to go save the South or not. I agree with Sean C. Winterfell can’t fall. Its in the name afterall.
Perhaps then they realize – through Bran – that Cersei is planning on blowing up KL in an effor to stop the NK so they have to go South to not only stop the NK but also stop Cersei from killing 1M people and the whole thing can resolve in one big climatic sequence.
Yes. I like where this is going.
Since Winterfell could easily be where winter, um, fell…Could Storm’s End be where the storm (Euron) meets his end?
Well I’m hoping that Gunpowder is good, looking forward to it tomorrow night ( well setting the PVR anyway). “Tycho Nestoris” (Mark Gatiss) is also in it.
Lol. Maybe. Although doubt they introduce Storms end at this stage.
I saw a cool idea that Theon could beat Euron – who wears armor – by grabbing him and jumping into the ocean. Then he drowns. Would be poetic
Still calling it – Winterfell gets its name because that’s where the NK is defeated.
Bran will go back in time and name it so.
I doubt we’ll see anymore of it at this point, but I think it would be pretty awesome to see more of The Land of Always Winter. From what we saw in “Oathkeeper” it looks pretty wild.
King in the Southwest,
I agree with those who think that Cersei has to meet the Hight King before the end: her clever plans have never worked and she had always had to suffer from the monsters of her own creation – be it Joffrei or the High Sparrow. Euron cannot fulfill this role fully, so it leaves us with the Night King.
On the other hand, it’s also true that there should be a major battle at Winterfell which was the whole point for the Starks to be there. Also, from the milatary point of view, simply circumventing a well-equipped castle would be a bad decision: that would provoke an inevitable attack on the rear. Hence, the Night King has at least try to take Winterfell.
I concur that keeping the dragons out of the battle will be a major task for the writers. But there are ways to solve the problem. From the Night King’s POV, Dany still outnubers him in the air 2:1 and Gendry may build several scorpions, so the Night King shouldn’t risk his ultimate weapon untill there is no other way. From Dany’s POV, risking her ultimate weapon is also not the wisest thing to do: one wrong move and the odds in the air will turn against the living; besides that, pregnancy should also be a reason to stay away from the fight. Therefore, although I ecpect some dragon-fight over Winterfell in the beginning, eventually both the living and the dead should step back and concentrate on a conventional warfare, so to say. IMO, there will be multiply attacks on the walls and intermissions, so the protagonists could sort out their inner issues, and that may take a whole episode or two, untill someone (Jaime?) brings some reinforcements (forces from the Riverlands, Dothraki who might not make it to Winterfell before the siege begins) and then the living should overrun the dead.
I have written it already but I’ll do it once more: I can’t see Winterfell falling and the living retreating somehow. It’s just the rule of a medieval warfare: if a castle falls, everyone who is insied dies (or is taken captive but not in this particular case). No way, Jon could organize some sort of evecuation with Dany covering the retreat: the column would streatch thin and they have only 2 dragons, etc. Holding Winterfell is their only chance for survival and therefore they should prevail.
However, if the Nigh King is beaten at Winterfell, that doesn’t mean he will just flee to his lair and keep a low profile for the next millenia or ten. Quite on the contrary: he has a dragon and the whole point of maiking him airborn was to faclitate him striking anywhere. So, it’s legit to assume that after losing the battle at Winterfell he will simply fly to KL where he will be able to raise a new army in minutes. An then, when the army of the living marches south, we may have the final battle at KL, or the Trident, or the God’s Eye, or anywhere else inbetween (my choice would be KL, though I don’t expect an actual battle – rather the ultimate dragon fight and blow-up of the city with wildfire6 which will kill everyone who has to be killed at the end).
That means either the NK doesn’t go South or he does and succeeds in recuriting his million person army and goes back up North.
Must admit I never expected Winterfell to be under siege, for the simple reason it can’t fit everyone inside and you’d assume it would fall to the white walkers if they have the ice dragon.
Now assuming this is true you’d have to assume the Knights of the Vale and Dothraki are well defeated and Dany’s dragons are elsewhere. Unless of course the White Walkers get there before team Targ do?
Fascinating to speculate but I really don’t want to know the full answer at this stage.
As I wrote above potentially the army of the undead could arrive before team Targ. Alternatively Dany’s dragons could die before hand, perhaps killing the Nights king dragon in the process, for example the first battle happens outside of Winterfell, the good guys lose but all dragons are lost, the humans retreat to Winterfell to face the last of the undead. I’m not expecting any dragons to survive the entire story so that sounds the most plausible scenario in my opinion.
While I think that’s possible I’d say it’s unlikely given he’s the one true king and is the only one that has pretty much everyone backing him. Of course that could be the twist but he kind of renders his whole secret back story pretty pointless.
But I do believe it’s him or potentially Arya who takes out the Nights King. I only say Arya because of her skills and dagger.
I am enjoying reading all the speculations in this thread. It’s so much fun to be finally be able to speculate without having things spoiled beforehand!
I agree with the suggestions that the Night King might just bypass WF altogether and head south on Viserion to attack the much more populated areas in the South, finally arriving at Kings Landing. Another point is, if the NK does so, does he take the AofD with him South directly or have his army besiege WF while he himself heads South? Considering the shambling pace at which we have seen the dead walk so far, they would surely slow down the NK if they were to move together all the time.
I just read an article about Rose Leslie and she mentioned that she will be in Iceland next month for Thanksgiving with him. So it appears they will probably be shooting in Iceland next month?! They could be going there together on their own without having anything to do with filming, but my guess is, it is because they will be shooting there.
Littlefinger no longer needs his jetpack, so perhaps the Night King will find it and make use of it to get his army moving a bit faster 😉
I hope this isn’t a spoiler but in GRRMs original outline the Undead army is dealt with and there is a fall out of what happens next for the remaining characters. I strongly suspect what happens to Cersei is after the final battle with the Nights King and also what happens between Jon and Dany for power assuming they are both still alive at that point.
I just read an article about Rose Leslie and she mentioned that she will be in Iceland next month for Thanksgiving with Kit. So I am assuming they will be filming in Iceland next month? They could possibly be going there on their own together for a holiday, but my guess is they will be there together because GoT will be filming there?!
I imagine that Jon and co. won’t know where the Nigh King has fled. They will asume that he has flown back to his lair. Jon will be willing to go on pusuit. Others will be advising him to deal with Cersei first and Cersei will be stirring up somehing with Euron and the Golden Company, etc. So, there will be some disagreements and planning and only then – surprise – the Night King will land in King’s Landing on Ep 5 for the final resolution.
What good is Bran if he can’t even figure out where the NK went?
The army of the dead arriving to Winterfell before team Targ is indeed an option but not a good one. The Night King has a witht dragon, so he can destroy Winterfell in minutes (including Bran and Sam, which would mean that the secret of Jon’s true parentage will be lost along with the potential conflict between Jon and Dany). Afterwards there won’t be any reason for the Night King to stay in Winterfell: being a greenseer, he should proceed towards Wight Harbor to meet team Targ and that doesn’t line up with the extension of the Winterfell set.
I can imagine the army of the dead and team Targ arriving to Winterfell about the same time, so that Dany’s dragons cound prevent its destruction, but that would mean the battle happening in Ep1 and that’s not the way D&D do the first episode of the season. From what we saw before, team Targ should arrive to Winterfell in the beginning of Ep1, and the Night King – by its end, and we should get Jon’s parentage revelation as a setup for the subsequent tensions inbetween.
Fair question. But maybe the Night King will really fly to his lair first to fool everyone: he can move pretty fast.
Or Bran may die during the siege of Winterfell from some didease or starvation (but I hope that’s not happening).
Good catch! Last season the showrunners made a big stress on the mountain shaped like an arrowhead which marked the location where the Nigh King had been created. I had a feeling that this location should be revisited at some point (the final duel between Jon and the Night King – things end where they started). But that kind of contradicts my theory about the Night King landing in King’s Landing. Or maybe it doesn’t, as dragons can cross this distance in a day or less.
Lol yeah, I guess the show could take the easy route and just have the undead army arrive wherever the story needs them to be, irrespective of the logistics, like Euron and his Iron Fleet last season.
The Night King could go to Kingslanding with his White Walkers to avoid Dany’s dragons. They can make new Wights there. While the already existing Wights are on their way to Winterfell while attacking some smaller castles. There will be a siege in Winterfell but with the dragons they can defeat most of them. Meanwhile Bran and Sam can tell him about his parentage. The problems will begin when the Night King returns from Kingslanding.
I don’t think The Army of the Dead will get to Winterfell before “Team Targ” does. I feel like there is going be a feeling out period between the Starks and Daeny’s crew when they finally meet. It’ll be all about whether or not they can trust a Targaryen or whateva.
If The Army of the Dead shows up before that then there won’t be any time for that. Meh, I dunno.
I kind of feel the same way about activity at Winterfell. I think that Jon, Daenerys and Co. will arrive, and that we will have the R+L=J revelations and fall out before the Night King descends upon the castle. The truth of who Jon is will cause ructions on all sides, but then they will be forced to work together in spite of their suspicions, as Jon urged in season seven.
After all, as LC Mormont said ‘When dead men and worse come hunting for us in the night, do you think it matters who sits on the Iron Throne?’
I hope the NK nukes Pyke while Euron is there. Just because.
The NK will have to move slowly due to his army’s speed. He may fly on down to KL on his own, or another location to get something special to his plans, but ultimately, he does need his slow moving army. Which may allow time for the birth of Danys baby (especially since she may not survive the AoD battles when they finally all get to the same location. My bets are they meet their fate at Winterfell, not KL.
I also do not think much more will be set up, rather played out from all that was in place coming into this last season. A couple final reveals in the works, like what’s up with Varys & Melisandre and their LofL, or how will Jon and Danys deal with their relatedness and of course, ultimate purpose of NK and who gets to kill Cersei.
The army of the dead can move a lot faster than humans, they don’t have to rest or eat. They were only hanging around beyond the Wall because the Nights King had to wait for the right opportunity to get a dragon, so that he could get past the Wall. We have seen those wights move at a super fast speed.
Even if the army of the dead marched at a snail’s pace, it would be suicidal to just wait around for months on end letting them roam The North adding tens of thousands more people to their army; while in the meantime the Dothraki, their horses and the dragons eat every morsel left in The North and hundreds of men and horses freeze to death in the winter.
Winterfell can’t host going on 100,000 soldiers (Dothraki, Unsullied, Vale, North, Wildlings) and their horses and thousands of Northern common folk seeking refuge for months on end.
There was repeated mention last season of the food situation. It’s impossible to tell these days whether the producers will bother to maintain consistency on that issue or whether they’ll just forget about it if it’s inconvenient. But it did feel like it was being raised for a reason.
Perhaps the producers will use the threat of starvation as a reason to accelerate towards the final confrontation with the Night King. If everybody will starve anyway, then there’s no reason not to take the fight to the Night King or try and draw him into an early confrontation.
Are all the white walkers Craster’s sons made by the Night King? And there are no new ones since he’s dead?
Night King has to be pretty frustrated at this point, as he can swoop around wherever he wants at great speed, while his ice minions trudge through snow and blizzards.
it could be …but who knows..He may sacrifice himself killing the NK..it will be Drama there
I’m expecting Jon’s parentage reveal to be the climax of episode 1, the fall out in episode 2. This would work if the Whites take Castle Black or the Last Hearth in episode 1.
That said though the show’s FX lead has said the first three episodes are all about fear so I expect a lot of white walker action and victories. The situation is likely to get grim quickly before they eventually win – which we are all expecting right?
True but we also know they were looking at a potential Jon Snow spin off at one stage so I’m of the belief he’s more likely to live than die.
I have a tinfoil theory – Dawn, (the sword made from a fallen star, belonging to house Dayne and present at Jon’s birth) – will be the weapon to kill the NK. I don’t know how Jon (or Danny) will get the sword …but what ends the night?
Did Cersei blow up the royal crypts with the Sept? Because if the NK lands in King’ s Landing part of me wants to see Cersei face a Zombie Joff.
That’s not going happen,HBO is not so desperate to do something like that and besides Kit said it himself,while he is somewhat sad the show ends he wants to do other stuff in his career . Also do you have a source for this because i have never heard such a thing,you may confuse rumours for real articles .
That’s why I think that the series have to end with Jon and Daenerys dead even if they live to the age of 80 and die surrounded by their weeping children and grandchildren (if GOT is a story being written by Sam, it won’t be a problem to put it a sentence about that in the end). If any of the main protagonists ends up alive, the temptation to make a spin-off might be too strong and spin-offs rarely live to the level of the inital story.
I know it’s not going to happen but it was reported as one of the spin offs they were originally looking at after GOT ends. Later they decided to do only prequels with none of the existing cast.
Re: Dawn – Some people have said it wouldn’t work bc it’s not VS, but I figure if obsidian/dragonglass (“frozen fire”) is effective because it’s cooled volcanic rock, then why couldn’t a sword made of a meteorite, i.e., a flaming rock of unknown compisition that fell to earth?
I’d been anticipating that the VS sword, Dark Sister, would show up ever since “cupbearer” Arya mentioned it to Tywin in S2, but that hasn’t happened. (Unless somehow that VS dagger Arya got in S7 = Dark Sister reforged. 👨🚀)
👨🚀 = My tinfoil helmet & full-body tinfoil suit
It seemed like Joffrey’s remains had been vaporized based on Cersei’s conversation with Qyburn in S6e10..but now I’m not so sure…
Excerpt (scene in which Qyburn brings Cersei a a pancake… I mean Tommen’s body)
Qyburn: What are your thoughts concerning the king’s funeral? As the Sept of Baelor is no longer an option, perhaps a ceremony in the throne room?
Cersei: He should be with his grandfather, his brother, his sister. Burn him and bury his ashes where the sept once stood.
“I’m expecting Jon’s parentage reveal to be the climax of episode 1, the fall out in episode 2…”
Yup. I think you’re right. I can just picture Episode 2 concluding with the Lord of Vacillation (Glover) renouncing Jon as his king, denouncing him as a fraud, and bitching that he’s a p*whipped dummy who sold out the North to his “foreign whore” girlfriend. Then Glover abandons the Alliance, stomps out of the WF great hall, starts marching home with his entourage…and runs smack into a bunch of Undead commandos.
(Hey, I figure one or more known characters have to be wightened, right? Just so long as it’s not Tormund😱.)
It could go either way, but I personally do not think that the sword Dawn is going to become any major factor. Longclaw is Jon’s VS sword, and has been since season 1. I don’t know why they would feel the need to change that for the last few episodes. Longclaw is already a special sword. Why feel the need to change that and give him yet another special sword that he would need to replace Longclaw with? Just seems unnecessary to me.
Besides, doesn’t that sword reside with House Dayne? If so, under what circumstances would Jon and Dawn be united?
Good comments in this thread, it is pretty damn cool to speculate how in the world this BA show is going to come to a close in just 6 episodes.
Even if they are longer… think about what all still has to Go Down
– Battle with NK
– Jon’s lineage
– Theon’s arc (wtf are they gonna do here?)
– Euron’s arc (probably coincides with alfie’s)
– Spider and Melisandre’s involvement
– Bran has to do something to end the long night right?
– The Golden Company…and elephants
– Jaime’s arc
– What is Tyrion’s place in all this
– DIREWOLVES PLS?!
– Dany getting knocked up…maybe
– I’m sure many sub-plots have fled my brain
And all we have is 6 episodes.
I’m stoked but also scared witless how the writers are going to do it all.
This is all my speculation.
Ep 1- Wights destroy castle black move south. Ererbody that’s anybody gets to Winterfell. Jaime tries to give a fistpump to Bran.
Ep 2- Jon finds out who his pops was. Wights pop up outside of WF. NK heads further south
Ep 3- Golden Company get to KL with Theon and Yara at the helm. I’m obviously pulling at strings. WF looks close to annihilation.
Ep 4- NK attacks KL, Golden Company caught in a pile of shit. Jon rides a dragon and saves WF then off to KL. (yea I’m reaching)
Ep 5 – Massive battle for all the marbles at KL.
Ep 6 – All survivors order a pizza and show ends with some futuristic timehops to show how the world has changed since the long night.
Man that was tough and stressful. Time for a beer
I use this stuff in our classroom (we live in the desert so the kids get excited by the faux stuff). I’d imagine they are using something similar on a much grander scale!
Awww, I don’t think it’s that black and white. Wights will be made continuously during that battle. Also the NK and his new ride, is a great distraction for wights moving beyond Winterfell, which they have to do, of course. Which is where winter truly begins. As we get to see places we’ve been for 8 years and 20 years of books, get overrun. Impregnable places like the Vale. Riverrrun. Poor Hotpie’s Inn.
The bridge will be interesting. It’s a central point. blowing it makes it harder to cross, but also keeps our armies from crossing.
So many great points of war battles. Some will be skirmishes, others out-right devouring. Our goals will be numerous, but one has to be kill the WW, as it kills the wights. Who Jon has on that mission, will be freakn’ amazing I hope. Faceless men anyone? 🙂
So many possibilities.
y biggest questions are how the dragons get used and when we’ll see the next one fall. Also whether or not the final showdown between Jon and Night King, is ground or air. And lastly, how close to Kings Landing does it get. As it has been pretty clearly set up it has to get close. Whatever big ove Jon ill have to do, should be in direct protection of KL and its people. Jon seeing it, was part of that process, of setting the stage. He knows now, he knows what he has to save for that big final deal.
Be really cool to see how far the wights have spread, and the inevitable killing of the NK, and how the wights all will fall and where. Course probably as per any TV or fil, will fall at tie needed prior total destruction.
Is he going to grab him by the…
Stop it, Wolfish. You get this way after too much hippocras.
The seemingly nonchalant way in which Bran gives Arya the dagger is one of the scenes that has really stuck with me from S7 (along with Jaime leaving KL, even though, as I have noted in other threads, I’m not a Jaime fangirl). From the first time I saw that scene, it struck me as meaningful that Bran hands the dagger to Arya as though it were nothing… and yet, we know its history is far richer than she can imagine, and we also know he can see far beyond what she can imagine. Perhaps he was afraid that, should he let on the importance of whatever task she will eventually carry out with the blade, the task will be jinxed. And so, he acts as though he were giving her nothing more than a simple blade.
What are your thoughts about Heartsbane?
I was surprised Randyll Tarly never went after Sam to get it back.
Now that Sam’s in WF, who’s going to wield that sword? I figure Sam’s going to be stationed in the war room, not on the battlefield.
It seems everyone with a VS weapon is going to be at WF.
Maybe Jorah or Sandor gets Heartsbane
I was surprised Randyll never went after Sam too. I mean, did he even realize Heartsbane was gone?
I agree that it’ll probably be either Jorah or Sandor who wields Heartsbane, but who knows, If I had to pick one of the two I’d say Jorah will get it based on Sam and Jorah’s new found friendship.
Thank you! Both replies are very informative.
Another possibility is that Heartsbane will be reforged into a mega-arrowhead or several and used against the wight dragon. Maybe, Sam anf Gendry and Bran will re-discover the lost secret of forging Valyrian steel in the process?
If I recall correctly, the most commonly accepted explanation for why the secret of making Valyrian steel has been lost is because it involves dragons. It would be a tragic irony indeed if either Drogon or Rhaegal was used to forge a weapon made expressly for the purpose of permanently destroying their wightified brother.
I did not realize that a picture of the VS dagger appeared in one of the old books Gilly and Sam were looking at in The Citadel. Seeing Arya twirl it like a gunslinger with a six shooter when she showed it to Brienne was cool, and of course the dagger flip at the end of the fght was impressive.
What else do we know about its history?
Also, if Wimsey were here, I suspect he might say something like you don’t hang a VS dagger unless someone’s gonna get stabbed with it in Act III.
(By the way, it needs a name. “Catspaw Dagger” is kind of…generic.)
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