Game of Thrones has departed Spain but we still have season 6 updates rolling in!
Game of Thrones was reported to be filming in the first enclosure of the Alcazaba of Almería, which includes extensive landscaped gardens.
Last week, a few of the show’ stars were spotted doing a photoshoot at the Alcazaba, but we’ve learned today that the location was used for other filming purposes as suspected. These new images, provided to us to by WotW reader AliKat, confirm that scenes for Dorne were filmed inside the fortress.
Photos below the cut!
As you can see, men costumed as Dornish guards were photographed exiting the Alcazaba last week and lingering just outside with other extras, including women dressed in Dornish clothes and a male extra dressed in non-guardsman costume.
Last week, the Dornish contingent arrived in Almería, Spain, with Alexander Siddig, Indira Varma and other actors spotted by fans. It was speculated that they might be filming at the Alcazaba but now we have this proof that the thousand-year-old fortress is part of Dorne in season 6.
Hodor pis toute.
Hodor gag
Euron
hodor!
Darn!
Sunspear!
Said this in last thread but now this ones here so I’ll mention again ..I think the gag is bran and 3 eyed raven be present at tower of joy but not physically… It easily could be something the kept thinking bout putting in but held off
C’mon Bashir, give us a speech to rival the best of Garak’s.
Weird: I would not have expected Ellaria to be in Dorne this year.
Sunspear!
Shane snow,
That’s not a VFX shot (the actors were present for the scene). Even if it was, the VFX supervisor wouldn’t have mentioned it as something they were looking forward to, because that’s not a remotely interesting challenge.
Wimsey,
You were literally the only one, I’m afraid…
Very nice castle. Will make a great Sunspear. (if it is sunspear.)
Wimsey,
It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if Ellaria and Snakes have already been caught by the time we see the Dornish bunch again.
Gal doesn’t know when to quit.
Luka Nieto,
Yup same here.
Great. More Dorne. My joy knows no bounds. 🙁
In case anyone’s wondering, this is how Sunspear looks like in the books.
https://thenorthwillneverforget.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/dorne-sunspear.jpg
Luka Nieto,
Orrrrr, Doran was behind the poisoning plot. Remember the way that Ellaria was so nice to Jamie, when she did that 360 last season. Maybe it was a signal that Doran had different plans and once Ellaria knew what that was, she was totally on board. Although it doesn’t make any sens in light of his policy about how to treat Myrcella up until that date. UNLESS something happened, that we didn’t see, to change Doran’s mind. Like….once Jaime showed up in Dorn he realized that he was never going to have a peaceful relations with Cersei so why bother helping to keep her alive. OR he received word that Dany was soon to arrive on his shores and he no longer needed to play nice with the Lannisters. Whatever happens, if Doran did have a change of heart they will really need to explain the shift in his behavior or it will suck.
Looking foward to see Dorne again. Doran and Trystane the most.
Really, really curious if Trystane will be how I pictured him in my head. Looking foward to his reaction too Myrcellas death, especially.
Also of course the Sand Snakes, curious to see where they will be sent, and hope they will have more screen time.
Dame Pasty,
Doran being behind the plot is something that has been in my toughts for quite some time.
That damn Ellaria/Jaime scene, the only one I really complained about, is what bothers me the most. Why the sudden change in Ellarias attitude towards Jaime? One thing I can think of, is Doran telling her something when she knelt to him.
GoT absolutely killing it with these locations…as usual.
Dame Pasty,
If Doran was meant to be in on the poisoning, surely they’d have had him on the dock at the end. But I have a hard time seeing how that would work, regardless. Why give up Jaime, a super-valuable hostage, or Myrcella, let alone potentially give them Trystane in the bargain (do we have any information at all about where he is this season; he hasn’t been see in any KL filming that I’m aware of)?
Mihnea,
Wouldn’t that scene have the same explanation regardless? Ellaria is trying to fool Jaime into thinking they’re friends now so that she can sucker-punch him by poisoning Myrcella. It would only be a question of whether she was also fooling Doran, or whether this was all somehow part of Doran’s plan.
Maybe it was so that Jaime would trust her enough so that she could get close enough for a smooch with Myrcella?
In my opinion, with much how the show and books hammer home how nationalistic the Dornish are and how effective they were at kicking dragon ass I reckon Doran’s end game plan will be to break free from the Crown
The Iron Throne brings nothing for Dorne. Hopefully the SS stfu and let Doran do all the work.
Bearded Onion,
If that was what he wanted, he could have done that already. Dorne’s participation in the Seven Kingdoms is entirely voluntary.
Name *,
Perhaps. I guess will see when the season starts!
Damn times flying by! It feels like yesterday we where getting Euron casting calls….
I can’t deny that Show Doran being behind it all didn’t cross my mind. I mean we all craved something more complicated from Doran last season (Even though “murdering a little girl” isn’t something Book Doran or show Doran would seemingly do. But then again maybe more will be revealed about Myrcella’s “maiming” in “Winter”).
But that scene could easily have just been included to connect/lead into her “about face” murder of his daughter in the finale. Like her being all compassionate to Jaime about him and Cersei, is just “bullshit playing nice”. So that when she and the Sandsnakes poison their daughter, it has more of a snap. Plus, as someone said above, it makes sense for her to kiss Myrcella now that they’re “playing nice”.
I was also of the opinion that Doran is behind Myrcellas death. He could be very sure that Trystane would be safe with Jaimie because Jaimie would never harm the devastating and broken heart of a young lover. Ellarias 360 performance scene would suffice as an appropriate proof for Jaimie that she and only she was behind Myrcellas death. I think that all this it was clear in the finale.
dothrakian raven,
Though deep inside me there is still a small hope that Myrcella will make it somehow.
Matt,
100% Stonesnake!
I don’t believe for a second Doran was behind Myrcella’s death. Have you forgotten who Doran is, or what he stands for, or what he said in episode 2, 6 and 9?
It is a ridiculous theory.
On topic: hey, Sunspear!
Sean C.,
He couldn’t while Tywin ruled and the Tyrell – Lannister pact was at its apex. Now the Crown is in utter turmoil and it’s ripe for collapsing.
-snip-
Pretty soon (not immediately) after my initial viewing, I came to the same conclusion. Doran was behind everything and as soon as Ellaria understood that, she and the SS started to do his bidding. That scene of Ellaria with Jaime absolutely makes zero sense, otherwise. We will see, next season.
In the Game of Thrones what one seems to support and stand for changes according to circumstances and politics. What I saw from Doran was a man who wants to be in charge and not be challenged and a man who in his silent mourning is thinking of possibilities to take revenge. Jaimies arrival changes the situation it gives him the opportunity to tame the SS and Elaria under his power and play the game of thrones and not the game of principles.
Bearded Onion,
Mihnea,
Thou doth declare too much. Now it just sounds like your being defiant out of spite.
Dutch Maester,
How does that saying go, the ones Westerosis use all the time? Ah yes, “words are wind.” Doran is afterall the ‘grass that hides the viper’, isn’t he?
What if Myrcella has become so fond of Dorne while she was a guest there, she supports and is in on their plan AND her own poisoning. She is not dead, to quote Miracle Max she is “only mostly dead” from voluntarily ingesting a nonlethal dose of Sweetsleep.
dothrakian raven,
Not when that would mean sacrificing his only child, by handing him over to the Lannisters voluntarily (he didn’t even have to if his plan was to kill Myrcella). It would be a completely nonsensical line of thought on Doran’s part. So no, that isn’t playing the game of thrones. That’s suicide. And he’s more clever than that.
Making the 8,
LOL.
Btw, if we didn’t know better, the woman on the very right in the third picture could very well have been Arianne Martell.
Or it might be her and it’s another Doran plot!
Come on, it wasn’t that bad. ?
I think doran will have been in on it… I know he had his whole thing about not harming children but it could be a good way of making it seem like he had nothing to do with.. I mean why were the ellaria and the sand snakes even able to see Jaime and everyone off anyways.. If trystane really was in love with myrcella and doran knows what she truly is then he want his son away from her anyways so he can marry him to someone else
Come on, it wasn’t that bad. ?
Ditto.
Shane snow,
And why in the world would Doran send off his only son and heir with Jaime, just after having Myrcella killed? Trystane will be at best a political prisoner; and at worst dead, if Cersei gets her way. Doran isn’t that stupid. Nobody would be that stupid.
Doran isn’t involved in Myrcella’s assassination. That makes no sense.
Luka Nieto,
Didn’t they leave on a dornish ship tho? Jaime gonna take on all of them?
Dutch Maester,
In any case his only child is with the Lannisters right now anyway. That means, according to you, that Trystane has no chance to make it to KL or he will see it only for a brief time. Lannistrers if we take them all as a group cannot afford a war with Dorne. As a matter of fact they cannot afford anything as things have developed and certainly not to play the you killed my daughter I kill your son game. So Doran knows very well that he does not put Trystanes life in danger by sending him there. The game is very open right now at KL. And I suppose that these ravens can reach Dorne too to inform him about the chaos there…
Shane snow,
We know for a fact Jaime arrives safely in King’s Landing.
Luka Nieto,
Thanks! Unfortunately people appear to be hard to convince with reasonable arguments.
Luka Nieto,
Agreed. No matter what direction show!Doran goes now, his first step will be to pack Ellaria off to Winterfell for some quality Ramsay time.
Luka Nieto,
Yeh so? I’m saying he can’t harm trystane if he is aboard a dornish ship..the lannisters can’t afford to be fighting dorne
Shane snow,
The ship is not dornish. It must have been the ship that Cersei gave as a present to Myrcella. But certainly it is recruited by dornish men…
Luka Nieto,
I also like how every time I read comments on here you completely throw away anyone’s points that don’t back up what you think will happen
dothrakian raven,
Yeh so regardless it is filled with men from dorne, people points seem to be that doran wouldn’t send his son to be killed or be a prisoner but who is to say that is what he would would happen to him
Shane snow,
The point is that your points aren’t actually very good points.
Shane snow,
Because Jaime is such a reasonable fellow. Anyway, he may believe that Trystane isn’t involved and keep calm, I’ll grant you that, but Trystane will still be a political prisoner when he comes back. He may not be kept in a cell, but he certainly won’t be allowed to leave. Doran wouldn’t like that one bit, so there is no way he is involved in Myrcella’s death. Unless you are suggesting Doran ordered the Dornish ship crew to turn around and drop Trystane off back in Dorne… In which case, why all the theatrics? Seriously, tell me: why poison Myrcella on the ship? That only makes sense if it’s Ellaria’s plan and she doesn’t care about Trystane.
Shane snow,
Well… Of course. I could say you did the same. I disagreed with your theory and presented my own, which I believe to be more reasonable and well argued… And that is not an insult to you; of course I’ll believe my arguments are better, or else I wouldn’t believe in them. You did the same. When you refute my arguments, don’t you believe yours are correct?
So let’s see what is logical: Myrcella dies. Jaimie is devastated then comes Trystane he is also devastated. They both cry over her dead body. So the logical is that after they have shed rivers Jaimie rises and accuses Doran of being responsible for Myrcellas death and that Trystane will pay the price for his father actions. How likely is that? Not at all. Even in the unlikely case that Jaimie wants to kill Trystane he is in a ship full of Dornish guards. But Jaimie is not an idiot and I am sure his arc this coming season will be to put an end in the chaos that the revenge game has created in the realm. So Trystane survives he bonds with Jaimie and stands for him when Jaimie will depart to the RLs. Doran has his representative in the Small Council.
Dutch Maester,
No, I made a point that trystane isn’t exactly in harms way and you are convinced he is and aren’t willing to at least give the idea a chance
Shane snow,
What would or would not happen to him is completely irrelevant to the argument of whether Doran would CHOOSE to RISK the safety of his son. This is about precaution, not impact, which is a significant difference in this discussion. So the people on the ship, the actual power struggle of the Lannisters, and the issue of whether Trystane actually is in danger do not matter.
dothrakian raven,
Just because Jaime ends up in kings landing who’s to say Jaime and brown aren’t dropped off and trystane is actually off to another destination
The ToJ is Dornish.. So maybe that does mean there will be an “equal amount of time spent in Dorne”, just not all of it will be “Doran/SS”-Dorne..
Everything? Doran did nothing prior to Myrcella’s poisoning.. So what “everything” are you even contemplating here? The only thing I can possibly think off was Doran sending the Snake/Necklace-threat.. Which got discussed while Jaime was in Dorne. I need to see that scene again. But that’s the only machination to come out of Dorne prior to Ellaria and SS going off on their tangent, so “everything” is a big thing to say when it can easily be “nothing”.
Also, that scene with Ellaria is just to sucker punch Jaime into a lull..
Actually, killing your own son is pretty much called infanticide..
Shane snow,
Because that makes no sense, as far as I can see. Why would Doran have Myrcella poisoned on the ship, then? Theatrics? Why not avoid the risk entirely? Doran isn’t dumb.
Shane snow,
You’re not giving our idea a chance either. Which is fine. To each their own; but don’t complain that we disagree with you. I can’t make myself not disagree. I can only present my counter-arguments clearly and politely, which I believe I did.
Exactly. It’s a Dornish ship with a Dornish captain and crew, sent on orders from Doran. So the only “prisoners” on the ship are Jaime and Bronn. Trystane is the one in control of the situation.
Dutch Maester,
Sean C.,
I agree that Trystane is the spanner in the works on my theory. However, if Doran thought that Jaime would testify that Trystane really did love Myrcella and protect him as a result, it makes more sense to send Jaime back to KL with him. Also, who would think that Dorne would do something so stupid as to send their heir into their klutches if they had killed Myrcella? That doubt about the nonsensical nature of it might help to keep him safe. And if Myrcella and Trystane had secretly already married (weren’t they begging for that before they left) and if Doran thought that soon Tommen and Cersei would be dead, Trystane being in KL makes perfect sense. It’s a dangerous gambit and Doran should be smarter than this to put his heir at risk but it’s also very bold, would be very unexpected. Like I said, if Doran was behind Myrcella’s poisoning, then D&D will have a lot o’splainin to do.
But he doesn’t take any risk in a ship full with Dornish guards. If the plan was to kill Myrcella and have Jaimie as a political prisoner back in Dorne he wouldn’t take any risk at all. But the ship will continue its route to KL. On whose orders? Trystanes? For what reason? just to transport Jaimie and Bronn to KL and then come back to daddy who in the meantime is sweating in agony? What is the point for all this? For me it is clear that Trystane goes to KL having taking orders from Doran. Ellaria was used to deflect all suspicion about Myrcellas death from Doran and so Doran have both Trystane at KL and SS and Elaria on his side for whatever mission they will undertake.
dothrakian raven,
With Cersei waiting for the ship at the dock about to find out that her daughter has died, I can’t imagine the reaction would be Trystane welcomed with open arms to KL and given his seat on the council. I tend to believe he is in danger whether or not Jaime bonds with him or acknowledges his innocence in the matter.
dothrakian raven,
Any risk? Really? None at all? If Doran was responsible, wouldn’t it have been even less risky if Myrcella had been killed in the Water Gardens, where many more men could protect Trystane and everyone else from Jaime and Bronn?
I ask again: Why would Doran have Myrcella poisoned once Jaime and Bronn were already on open waters with his own son, even if he has men protecting him? It’s an awfully risky move, considering the alternative would be just as secretive and much less risky.
I guess we’ll see how it pans out in April or May. I just can’t expect that they will butcher Doran’s character, as presented in the books and the show, both in terms of his intelligence and his ethics, for no reason whatsoever.
There is no good reason to ever think that Doran was involved in Myrcella’s murder, folks. For heaven’s sake!
Sullied by Knight,
First of all Trystane can transport Jaimie and Bronn with a boat to the coast and then leave back to Dorne if he is afraid of his life. He will not do this. And why would Cercei want to kill him? She knows very well that then Tommen’s life would be in danger.Can she afford it? When she will find out that Myrcella is dead then she will realise that Maggies prophecy is not a joke. After the Walk she will not have the courage to take the risk of avenging Myrcellas death by killing Trystane. Fear is gonna be the main theme for her this season and her only concern will be to keep Tommen safe.
Luka Nieto,
That theory about Doran is just like theory that that old lady from WF was working for Ramsay.
mau,
Or the theory that Myrcella’s necklace-in-a-box was a secret plot from Cersei to get Jaime to Dorne.
mau,
Dutch Maester,
Yup. All of them over-complicated, convoluted theories, in my opinion.
It’s really this easy, as I see it: the show has limited time, and if they had wanted to reveal that Doran was behind it all, they would’ve done it back then, by simply having Doran not leave the dock and remain there after Myrcella’s death to look at Ellaria meaningfully when she drinks the antidote. Visual storytelling is important. Contradicting that powerful, wordless image now would not only be incongruent but also make the scene completely redundant.
Dutch Maester,
Yes. I don’t know what Doran or SS will do in S6. D&D didn’t leave Dorne with a clear direction at the end of S5. But maybe that was their intention. Everything is possible.
Luka Nieto,
Because Myrcella dying kissed by the poisonous lips of Ellaria excuses Doran from being behind her death. At the WG fight scene Doran and Ellaria were two different entities with different plans in mind. After Ellarias kneeling to Doran it is obvious that these two work as a team. They play a theatre all along in which each one (incl Trystane) has a role. But you are right we will have to wait and see. I am not saying that there are no other possibilities and that the precaution logic is totally excluded. I am just trying to piece together what has happened in Dorne and KL so far with what possibilities this very context opens for the future.
dothrakian raven,
You may be right, but that final look in Cersei’s eyes as FrankenMountain carried her off didn’t really read ‘fear’ to me. I look forward to seeing just how crazed and unbalanced she becomes as the prophecy nears completion.
Doran definitely had nothing to do with Myrcella’s death. That was all Ellariastar’s doing.
I also doubt she has free reign in Dorne given what she did, and is likely locked up in the dungeons (possibly pending execution)… or at least I hope that’s where she is for the sake of making a shred of sense.
The “everything” that I was “contemplating” was everything to do with Myrcella’s final poisoning death offshore on a ship.
mau,
I was frustrated by the end of the Dornish storyline for season 5 at first exactly because of this, but it later occured to me it is actually quite logical when you think about it. Now they have the freedom to use the SS for whatever purpose they see fit (as there are many different possibilities with the SS in particular) in Season 6, while writing the season itself. If they had included it, they had to already decide what they would do in season six while writing season five and stick to it.
All this stuff it’s so great
I don’t think that was the main reason. I think they mostly knew what purpose SS will serve on the show, but if they told us that last year we would already knew and there would be nothing new or exciting about that.
Also, I think that they thought that some sort of Doran’s speech will probably better fit into S6 as a set up for Dorne’s plot and not as the climax of S5.
If this is so, wouldn’t Trystane be in grave danger of retribution, from Cersei if not Jaime? I can’t imagine Doran would risk such a thing. What good is it going to do Trystane or Dorne if Trystane is in the bowels of the dungeon? or worse …
EDIT: read some answers to this question by previous posts after I had already posted this. The mystery of what the aftermath of Myrcella’s death will be make seeing Dorne again actually kind of exciting. Let’s hope.
It can hardly be worse than last year (even though it wasn’t as bad as many claim)
The only logical possibilities I found of Doran killing Myrcella are (because we know already that the ship is gonna arrive to KL, and that Cersei is mourning Myrcella):
-Doran fooled Ellaria knowing she’s gonna kill her anyway. So he has a pawn to be sent to KL to appease Cersei.
-Trystane is a peasant posing as the heir.
Both.
Any news about Toby Sebastian filming at Almeria or something ?
Ow! Ow! Ow! OK, folks, logical does NOT mean “it makes sense to me.” It means that it necessarily follows from a premise.
When it comes to human behavior, it is difficult to apply logic. Humans do things for emotional reasons, and the human capacity for cognitive dissonance is astounding. (GRRM’s stories often use that cognitive dissonance as part of the identity crises. )
Was Doran behind Myrcella’s poisoning? Perhaps. However, it is not “logical.” If he did, then it was a subtle tactical gamble. Now, we have seen that Doran is subtle: but that only means that we should not be surprised to see him do something subtle (i.e., we cannot logically conclude that it could not be Doran because of the subtlety and the risk), not that we should expect it. (You are not surprised when you roll 12 on a pair of dice, but you don’t expect it, either.)
Er, why would that be? Sure, Tommen would have one more enemy: but he has plenty of those already. Moreover, why would Cersei do something sensible like that given that she is a very tempermental person with a very unrealistic idea about the relative strength of her position and her enemies.
Not once after they become toddlers! 😀
Why would she not kill Trystane? She doesn’t know their love was real and I don’t think she will believe Jaime. The Dornish already killed one of her children, I don’t think she will want anyone from Dorne near her last surviving child.
Chilli,
That is why I do not expect to see Trystane in KL. Of course, I did not expect to see Ellaria in Dorne. What is up with that, I wonder?
The fact that something is logical does not necessarily mean that it is valid. Logic is a process of thinking and reasoning based (in this case at least) on certain visual facts. That Doran is behind Myrcellas death is as much logical as it is the assumption that he isn’t. Both premises follow a form of logic. The way Dorne’s arc developed and finished, it has been stated above by others too, has opened a lot of possibilities as to what can be valid. It is not about what makes sense to me it is more about how I process the existent facts about Dorans and Ellarias behaviour that make me think and reason in a certain way. In any case we will have to wait and see which one of the two logical syllogisms that have been discussed in this post will be the valid one…
I still dont understand why Ellaria poisoned Myrcella on that goodbye scene when she have the chance to kill Jaime Lannister, the kingslayer and Queen’s brother slash lover.
It is neither deduction nor induction. Those are your two alternatives for logic, at least if we are talking about propositional or predicate logic. Only particular types of deduction can be valid: all X have y; it’s X; therefore it has y; or it lacks y; it cannot be X. It might be unsound (Whoops: X doesn’t have y after all! of Whoops! Turns out that it did have y!). But it is valid. When you can construct a series of A means B; B means C; C means D; etc., then you have a valid syllogism. That’s a key thing about logical validity: one conclusion and only one can follow. If there are multiple possibilities, then we leave the world of “pure” logic for probability. (Logic really is just probability but with everything having a probability of 1 or 0: every possibility allows for one and only outcome, with all other conceivable outcomes impossible.)
However, there is nothing like that here. If Doran is planning X, then he might do… any number of things. Now, there might be some statements where we could go “Doran would never hurt little girls; Myrcella is a little girl; therefore, Doran would never hurt Myrcella.” However, we then could argue about the soundness of that statement: Oberyn might have been lying/exaggerating, or Myrcella is (was) a woman now, not a little girl. Doran simply is not well enough developed that we could say “Doran would never” or “Doran would always” with any certainty.
So, we have no syllogisms here. Basically, it is “I could see Doran doing this…” or “I don’t think that it is inconsistent with Doran’s character to do that….”
Babeko,
That’s a good point. If you are going to get revenge by killing a Lannister, go for the highest value point Lannister in the area. In this case, Jaime would certainly trump Myrcella. Probably doesn’t follow GRRM’s story line, though.
Sullied by Knight,
Perhaps I’m putting more thought into this than the writers did, but it seems to me if you wanted to really undermine Lannister rule, you would do it by assassinating an actual heir to the throne rather than someone who has no claim to the throne (or a claim to any seat of power at all really). Cersei’s children are the only thing anchoring the Lannisters to the throne at all, and if they died there would be pretty much nothing to prevent Cersei and the rest of her family from being deposed.
Robb Snow,
still, though. She should have poisoned Myrcella AND Jaime. Two kiss to kill The Heir and Lord Commander of The Kingsguard.
New photos of the new Maghernamorne set
http://www.larnetimes.co.uk/news/local-news/new-game-of-thrones-film-set-revealed-1-7032237
One thing that’s been bothering me about this announcement – do we know if the Dornish crew will be sharing any scenes with any other plot lines?
Gravemaster,
Looks like quite a big set compared to the size of the tents. No idea what it could be, evven though it’s obviously a set of buildings.
If you want to be pedantic, it wouldn’t be suicide, nor would it be infanticide. Trystane is certainly no longer an infant. It would be filicide, which is derived from filius, the Latin word for “son.” Take it from a former Classics (i.e. Greco-Roman) major.
And now back to our regularly scheduled program… 😛
Dutch Maester,
I don’t think it’s a set of buildings. The buildings in the background were already there; they are a modern industrial complex, from a time when the quarry was active. The set in construction consists only of two large walls, as of yet. It looks like a large hall to me, like some sort of palace room. We’ll have to wait and see, because it’s impossible to tell what it will look like until they paint over the wood.
Yaga,
That’s the question’ isn’t it? Which (if any) main character will interact with the Dornish? Theoretically, it should be a given, especially if it’s true that they will have as much screentime as last season. Then again, maybe D&D considered last season’s Jaime story to also be a gentle induction of the Dornish characters into the main cast, in which case they will of course have their independent storyline this season.
The more I think about it, the more likely it is to me that Doran knew that Ellaria would try a stunt like this. Whether he was in on the plan from the beginning (and all that failed kidnapping by the SS plus the public scolding was all a charade) or he simply came to his own conclusions and just let Ellaria act out because it benefits his own plans, he isn’t portrayed as stupid enough to get caught by surprise.
Conan Troutman,
Yet he is stupid enough to let Ellaria carry out her plan in a contained environment he has no direct control over nor access to, despite the fact that his only son and heir is there, with few men to protect him, even though Jaime and Bronn are also there to witness the assassination?
It would make sense if Ellaria doesn’t blame the Lannisters as a whole, but specifically blames Cersei for Oberyn’s death. It was Cersei leading the charge in blaming Tyrion for the regicide of Joffrey, which is what led to the trial-by-combat and Oberyn getting his killed. (I don’t have the words for what happened to Oberyn’s head. Even metaphors and similes fail me, as nothing is quite like the one scene in GoT that literally made me nauseous.)
Point being, if Ellaria is aiming to inflict as much suffering on Cersei as she can in retribution, then killing Myrcella would better accomplish that. Sure, Jaime might be a more valuable player to lose, but she’s already shown she was willing to risk him by sending him to Dorne to retrieve Myrcella in the first place. And yes, as Cersei’s twincestuous lover, Jaimie’s loss would’ve been roughly equivalent to what Ellaria went through upon Oberyn’s demise. But why would Ellaria settle for inflicting equal damage, when she can take it a step further and make a mother suffer that much more at the loss of a child?
Not to mention that Ellaria saw just how crazy Joffrey’s death made her. Thus she would be assured of the impact of Myrcella’s death on Cersei in her already deteriorating mental state, with the added bonus of helping to further destabilize the Lannisters’ hold on the Iron Throne.
While I’m technically Unsullied since I haven’t gotten around to reading the books, I have read wikis on various topics and characters. It’s not exactly a secret that
The Landing, the Landing, the Landing’s on fire!
We don’t need no water; let the motherfucker burn!
Burn, motherfucker! Burn!
EDIT: Points to Robb Snow for pointing out that Myrcella’s death takes one more Lannister heir out of the line of succession for the Iron Throne. That’s the most important tactical benefit of her demise in the Game, which may be the only way it also helps Doran’s plan
if his motivations in the show are similar to those in the books [/spoilers].
Wonder where Trystane is going to be in S6.. Will he reach KL, be killed by Cersei or imprisoned or something else altogether… The actor has not been spotted at all. Even Nell Tiger Free has previously been spotted in Belfast, presumably filming her funeral, but there was no word of Toby Sebastian.. Of course he might have gone unnoticed till now, he is probably the only actor to have done so at this stage of filming.
I said it right after watching the last episode of season 5 that I think Doran is behind the poisoning of Myrcella. You can see in that scene that Doran gives Ellaria the order (nonverbally) to do what she does and he is watching closely. Of course we don’t know what they both think at that moment, so Doran might think he is ordering Ellaria to apologize to Myrcella, but he is definitely ordering something.
It would be extremely dumb of Ellaria do betray Doran right in front of him, because he would immediately know. He can even see the antidote around her neck and I doubt he’s unaware to what that is.
As to why he would do that we can’t know for sure. That’s obviously supposed to be a mystery.
ghost of winterfell,
Still 2 months left too film. Also Toby isn’t the most known actor.
Also, in my opinion, Trystane won’t die nor do I think he willl be impisoned.
At least until
If he is to be imprisoned, then I belive it would be only after
Luka Nieto,
What are you referring to with contained environment? What is stupid about what?
Obviously he would be gambling that there won’t be a retaliation against Dorne or Trystane and the blame will fall solely on Ellaria. That is some risk, but that would be no different if he were in cahoots with Ellaria. But I doubt Jaime and Bronn will be blaming him, so it seems that could actually work (of course he left the Mother of Madness out of the equation, which might ruin his otherwise solid plan, but he can’t know how far gone she is).
Think about it: The guards intervened at the precisely right moment during that ridiculous fight over Myrcella: Soon enough that it wouldn’t end in disaster, but also late enough that Jaimie and Bronn would recognize Ellaria and the SS as the true culprits behind the plan to abduct/mutilate/kill Myrcella. Cue in Doran presenting himself as the reasonable guy (“You could’ve just asked”) who wants that marriage, scolding Ellaria in front of Jaimie.
The little piece that doesn’t fit in the Doran-was-just-speculating version is the whole poison scene (Tyene and Bronn in the prison). That seems to be necessary for Bronn to recognize the poison later on the ship as SS property. Doran couldn’t have anticipated that, so it seems that this a rather elaborate play by Doran, Ellaria and the SS (plus the guards) to poison Myrcella and lay the blame solely on Ellaria.
The ship. In the middle of the sea. Doran isn’t stupid; he wouldn’t gamble with the life of his only son and heir by having Myrcella poisoned in a small environment to which he has no access, with both Trystane and Jaime in it. He could assume that Jaime won’t blame Trystane, but why play the odds so stupidly? It’s not like that shitty plan was his only option! Far from it: if he was involved, he could’ve had Ellaria carry out the same plan on land, where he can control what’s happening on real time. Seriously: having Myrcella poisoned as she is leaving so that she dies in the middle of the sea, far from Doran’s eyes, only benefits Ellaria, giving her some time to try and escape. If Doran was involved, he would’ve have Ellaria do it in an environment he can secretly control, an environment in which the life of his only son and heir is not put in danger in any way whatsoever. Why would he do that? He wouldn’t. Ellaria would, as killing Myrcella in an environment Doran has no access to gives her some time to flee or even try and claim her innocence (though I think both of these things will fail).
Mihnea,
I guess it will depend on who holds the power in KL next season. Will Cersei let Kevan take all decisions? Especially after she sees Jaime and Trystane come out of that boat with Myrcella’ s corpse? In the books, Cersei seemed broken after the WoS. But it might be a bit different in the show. I would be surprised if she does not at least try for some revenge.
Luka Nieto,
The whole dornish plot last season did not make much sense, IMO. Yes it does not make sense for Doran to wait until Myrcella was on that ship, if he was behind the poisoning. But Ellaria and the other acting on their own makes them seem pretty stupid. How could they hope to get away with it. Even if Ellaria claims innocence, she can hardly expect Doran to believe her after having made her intentions so clear previously. It might have worked if she had somebody else to blame, which she doesn’t. And in that last scene of ep 10, it did not even look like they were going to flee. They just smirked and walked away.
ghost of winterfell,
While Kevan and Jaime are around I expect her to be preaty powerless.
Once they are gone, then yeah I expect her to try too take over again.
Also I don’t think Trystane will be the focus of her revange/anger, not with the HS, Maergery and Olenna there. Hell I think she will go after Kevan too, for taking away the power from her, perhaps.
I have no clue what Trystane will do, but until we have more information/clues wich we can speculate on I still belive he won’ be a powerless prisoner.
Like I said, at least until Jaime and Kevan are there. Afterwards…well depands on Cersei.
On Ellaria: I don’t think they are even going too try and lie or run, I think Ellaria knew well what she did.
I’m starting too think more and more that she will die. Perhaps she will take entire guilt on her and beg for their lives or try to convince Doran that the Sand Snakes are innocent.
One thing I’m certain tough, is that the Sand Snakes will live. I find the idea of Doran executing them ridiculous.
Luka Nieto,
I thought he has control over the ship? Jaime and Bronn came there alone, so I assume it has to be a Dornish ship with Dornish men.
My problem with Doran knowing nothing about Ellaria’s plan and still letting her go to the pier is that it makes him look mighty stupid, and he isn’t portrayed like that at all. I’d be seriously disappointed if that would be the case, as if the story line wasn’t bad enough already.
So I guess he’s just willing to take that risk by putting Trystane on the ship because he sees no other way and minimizing the risk by carefully pointing all the evidence to Ellaria and putting himself in the best light possible, hence that whole charade in episode nine.
Doran killing Myrcella like that is too convoluted, and frankly, it would be idiotic of him.
And I’m becoming more convinced that Dorne will be where Daenerys lands in Westeros, that they will skip Aegon in favor of Daenerys. I would have said that Doran will sent a SS to meet with Dany in place of Quentyn, but after Myrcella I don’t see that happening.
Mihnea: Also, in my opinion, Trystane won’t die nor do I think he will be imprisoned.
Yeah, although I don’t really agree with it, I know that they won’t have Jaime kill him. However I do have some serious objections if they don’t take him as a prisoner, it would make no sense.
O_o,
Taking him prisoner would basically mean war with Dorne, sure Cersei would do that.
But I can’t see Kevan doing that. Of course he won’t be able to leave KL whenever he wants, but I still think Kevan will put him on the SC to show Doran that he doesn’t want war.
Also no way will Jaime take him prisoner, if anything I expect Jaime to defand him from Cersei. Still think this is unlikely as there are bigger fish for Cersei to go after.
I trully can’t see Jaime hurting or being even angry at Trystane.
Once they are both gone? Then yeah his fate becomes uncertain, but I fully belive neither Jaime or Kevan will do anything too him. It’s Cersei that’s the wildcard.
**Ellaria and the SS went out of the camera angle. They started to run, lefting their fluffy dresses behind** lol
Doran being behind Myrcella’s death would be ridiculous and make Dorne an even bigger joke than it already is. They’ve got their work cut out down there next season especially as they haven’t got Jaime and Bronn to keep it watchable anymore. Fear for Dorne!
Insofar as we can tell, Nymmeria was always wearing that. Thus it would not have looked at all out-of-place, even if Doran knew what it was. I tend to doubt that this was some scheme of Doran’s simply because it would endanger his only heir.
As for Trystane, I doubt that he will be much of a factor next year. He was a bit-part last year, after all: he was just a cog in Jaime’s story.
Wimsey,
Think you mean Tyene not Nymeria. 🙂
Wimsey,
I did not say or imply that I have two alternatives for logic to offer in general. If that is what you mean then this is your own authoritative deduction. What I tried to say is that syllogism is a form of logic, a deductive one. In this post we have been discussing two syllogisms. a) Yes, Doran is behind Myrcellas death, b) No, Doran is not behind Myrcellas death. And in fact there are no other options within the context of this discussion corresponding to the visual material of GOT. I advocate for the first based on some visual facts and the general context of the dialogue in S5. Others (Luka Nieto for example) based on their own reasoning about the same facts advocate for the second. Inevitably our inferences differ. As you said there is only one valid conclusion within this context known only to the ones who have written and read the script. As long as We do not know this very valid conclusion the two syllogisms are hanging in the air. Now there other commentators who on this very matter do not create any syllogism at all. Instead they take parts of the discussion creating propositions of their own that support or not the inferences of the two syllogisms mentioned above and presenting the result of this process as a valid or not valid conclusion to the issue.
Luka Nieto,
At the same time, Trystane is nowhere to be seen… He wasn’t in Girona, he isn’t here…
The most logical outcome will be for Trystane to become a hostage of sorts, like Sansa was. The death of a princess cannot be ignored, and also they need to ensure Doran’s fealty.
But if that were to be the case (or even if he remains in KL as part of the SC) for Doran to support Dany, Trystane must be dead already. So, if he is safe and sound in KL, I strongly suspect that Cercei will eventually kill him, either by the end of this season or in the next
O_o,
I agree with the second part. I can easly see him geting killed once Jaime and Kevan are gone.
But not before, in my opinion this will not happen. Taking him prisoner is a better way to get Dorne too war. And I expect Kevan too know that. Demanding justice from Doran, is normal. Here comes Ellarias story, her dieing will be my bet. So the crown has it’s justice. And Doran can easly say it was a rogue persons act, not one sponsored or approved by him/Dorne.
They have no reason too imprison him, if Doran denies any involvment and actoully punishes Ellaria for her actions.
Like I said, I don’t expect Trystane too be left to leave when ever he wishes. But neither do I think he will be in a Sansa situation.
I’m going, with Kevan keeping him in KL, at the SC too send a subtle message too Doran:” We respect you, by not imprisoning him. But he is also within our reach.”
Also half of Myrcells story last season was how much she loved him, and she made certain to tell Jaime that couple of times. So I fully expect him too protect Trystane, mainly from Cersei, other people I can’t see moving against him.
Like I said, I actoully agree that he may die or be imprisoned, but only after both Jaime and Kevan are gone.
This is of course only my opinion. I would not be angry or dissapointed too see it happening in other ways. But I have seen no evidance against this yet, so until we may get more information too speculate, I will hold this as my opinion.
Sean,
I entirely agree, and your idea is supported by a comment in the books which I take to be a reference to
Remember that really tiresome monologue about
Ignore the fact that this is slightly unlikely (a peasant child is going to look a bit different to a well-fed noble child… but then, we do have evidence that Dorne is more of an egalitarian feudal culture than other parts of the Seven Kingdoms, and also our perception of Westerosi peasant life has been coloured by Littlefinger nicking and hiding all the money / grain, so everyone’s suffering). Why would Doran say this?