When Game of Thrones (or, something like it) returns to our screens sometime in the next 1-2 years, the settings will look very different. Thus far, all of the spinoffs greenlit (currently as many as three) will be set at some point in the past. And while we’ve been tracking the production of HBO’s upcoming House of the Dragon, we’ve heard hardly a word for months on the other spinoffs that have been rumored about the Internet. Today, however, is a different day. Today, Deadline has confirmed that Amanda Segel is the first announced writer to tackle the legendary Princess Nymeria and her, well, 10,000 ships…
It appears that this project, about which not much is yet known, will follow the journey(s) of Princess Nymeria, along with other surviving members of the Rhoynars, as they travel from Essos to Dorne, after their defeat in the Second Spice War by the Valyrian Freehold. Because all of this takes place around 1,000 years before “present day” Westeros, it could help lay the groundwork for much of what we know from GOT. We didn’t get much of a chance to explore Dorne as a location in the show, but we know that it’s full of a rich history. This spinoff could showcase an opportunity to focus on Dorne without worrying about checking in on the denizens of Winterfell, or anywhere else on the continent that is superfluous to the concentrated story at hand. And let’s of course not forget (in case the picture above didn’t remind you) that one of our favorite heroines named her direwolf after the legendary Nymeria. I’d imagine that the possibilities for many seasons are pretty sky high.
Per Deadline, Amanda Segel‘s past writing credits also include CBS’ The Good Wife, on which she was a producer, and as an exec producer on Spike TV’s Stephen King drama The Mist. She also developed a TV series based on video game Skull and Bones from Ubisoft. The upcoming GOT spinoffs we’re still waiting to learn anything about would be the rumored 9 Voyages, Flea Bottom, Dunk & Egg, and even an animated series. Take that, MCU.
I loved The Good Wife so I look forward to this 🙂
The Mist series was awful. I bailed early but the essential message seemed to be atheists are evil and caused all this evil stuff to happen, and allied with Satan. I assumed the producers were right-wing evangelicals who had that point of view to push. So I hope Amanda Segel isn’t of that mindset.
I’m definitely interested in Nymeria as a story lead.
Oh wow, they must be really certain about House of the dragon’s success if they are already thinking about producing another show.
Look, I love ASOIAF with all my heart but I’m afraid we might end up over saturated with so much content, like it happened to me (and so many others) with the mcu.
George is involved in this one as well ?
There’s no way he didn’t finish the books.
Iul,
What books?
Hey! After several weeks it looks like the Lord of Light has released me from Commenting Purgatory. 😬
”…And let’s of course not forget (in case the picture above didn’t remind you) that one of our favorite heroines named her direwolf after the legendary Nymeria.”
My name is Avatar Arya and I approved this message.
Ten Bears,
There’s a belief that GRRM is sitting on the books. A belief I don’t find any evidence for but I think it’s fairly innocuous and born more of hope. That said, I do personally find the whole books debate is another one that’s been done to death and doesn’t lead to anywhere new :/
Adrianacandle,
“That said, I do personally find the whole books debate is another one that’s been done to death and doesn’t lead to anywhere new :/”
Totally agree, that’s the problem this world has. I wanted to point that out.
We are led to believe that we should start caring about Nymeria, The Dance of Dragons, Flea Bottom, Dunk & Egg and The Tourney at Harrenhal and leave the main story aside. And about the main story we got this:
“In January 2016, Martin confirmed that he had not met an end-of-year deadline that he had established with his publisher for release of the book before the sixth season of the HBO show. He added that completion of the book was “months away still… if the writing goes well”. Martin also revealed there had been a previous deadline of October 2015 that he had considered achievable in May 2015, and that in September 2015 he had still considered the end-of-year deadline achievable.”
It’s 2021… that’s the issue.
Iul,
Myself, I am interested in the stories of Nymeria, The Dance of Dragons, Flea Bottom, Dunk & Egg, the Tourney at Harrenhal, all of it, because I do want new material to take in and discuss. I am looking forward to having those new discussions. Whether GRRM gets the books out or not… I’d say it’s out of our control, no matter what year it is, no matter what GRRM keeps hoping and repeating (in saying that, I’m hoping not to start a bash-GRRM-for-repeating-the-same-old-line-session, just that this is kind of the reality at this point). He may say that for the rest of his life for all we know. I’m kind of just resigned at this point. But I am excited for any new material offered in this fandom.
I think it is what it is at this point :/
Iul,
And about the main story we got this:
“In January 2016, Martin confirmed that he had not met an end-of-year deadline that he had established with his publisher for release of the book before the sixth season of the HBO show. He added that completion of the book was “months away still… if the writing goes well”. Martin also revealed there had been a previous deadline of October 2015 that he had considered achievable in May 2015, and that in September 2015 he had still considered the end-of-year deadline achievable.”
It’s 2021… that’s the issue.
It almost feels like this calls for a Musical Interlude dedicated to Big G….
you people want to tell me that GRRM has been or is writing books? come on…
well, like said above: is it worth any more discussion whether he finishes ASOIAF? nope. let’s be happy with what we have, and, everyone feel invited to write their own final chapters.
Well, I do think he’s trying and has been writing, per his blog posts, but I get the impression he’s stuck, frustrated, and I imagine this feeling is made all the worse by his personal losses to COVID. From what he says about his writing, it seems GRRM goes through periods of stopping and starting as well as revision after revision with maybe some overthinking while he is prone to distraction and procrastination. But of course, I don’t know the guy so I can’t say for sure about anything 🙂
That said, yes, I do agree with some of what you’ve said. Discussion on this topic won’t really influence anything (although, I do understand the frustration). I’m thankful for whatever I can get from GRRM because what further material he does provide is ultimately out of our control. I still have hope but for me, I’m trying to manage my expectations. Yet, I welcome any new material he provides or contributes to 🙂
I really wish they’d gone back to the drawing board and given “The Long Night” another chance. To be honest, that is the one project that interests me the most as a spin-off/prequel than any of the current projects, including “House Of The Dragon”.
I know there is story there. I think even content wise it would have been more ripe to explore than the rest of the material now being considered, and even though it is set soo far into the past, I think it had more of a connection to GOT than anything else that is currently in development.
We will more than likely never know what the exact issue was that killed the show and how bad the pilot was to have provoked such a reaction. But given the fact that GOT was given a second chance when it’s pilot underperformed, I think “The Long Night” might have benefited from another shot as well, maybe with some changes in the cast, the writers, showrunners etc.
I don’t know why, but it feels as if “House Of The Dragon” as well as the other projects being considered, are the equivalent of trying make an LOTR/”The Hobbit” prequel or sequel based on Tolkien’s appendixes instead of his novels…which is pretty much where Amazon find themselves…
How a about a sequel instead of prequels???
Lazy writers
loco73,
Totally agree! I had faith in Jane Goldman, I wish they let her work through things like they did D & D. Now it just seems like they’re set on going the Disney / Marvel route and are going to rush out as much mediocre content as possible because they know people are hooked on GoT and will like pretty much whatever nonsense they put out, as long as it’s inoffensive.
Speaking only for myself, I’m interested because of what I know of the stories and if they’re engaging productions in their own right, I’ll stick around for them — like other shows that have predecessor productions. If I’m not engaged enough, I won’t stick around and will devote that time to something else. Some of these shows may stick, others may not. I guess it depends on the audience and current preferences.
I was interested in the Long Night too. Regardless, I’d want it to stand on its own merit and be its own story and show. Yet, another commenter here made the point that the narrative for the Long Night hasn’t been written down in its published format yet, its still a mystery, while HotD and Nymeria has a known and figured-out narrative going for it.
Maybe you could wait to watch it first before labeling it as mediocre. 🤷♀️
Adrianacandle,
Casey Bloys quote on The Long Night really disturbed me:
“The Jane Goldman one was a bit of a bigger swing because there was a lot more invention. House of the Dragon, George has text and history for that era, so there is a bit more of a road map. You understood the history and what the story would be, so it’s easier to [visualize as a series].”
HBO was built on taking big swings. Imagine if someone pitched The Sopranos nowadays? It would probably get shot down for not being based on any IP.
The way they greenlit House of the Dragon after The Long Night was axed disturbed me. Felt like they had no choice, needed to rush one out after all the wasted time they spent on The Long Night. Ah, well, we’ll see what the result is.
Had really loved the work Jane Goldman did on the Matthew Vaughn movies. Kingsman, X-men First Class, Kick Ass, etc. Meanwhile the people they’ve gotten for other spinoffs don’t really have impressive track records.
Pigeon,
I’m definitely going to give it a fair shot when it comes out and I hope to like it. But until then, I reserve the right to remain skeptical.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
It sounds to me like you’ve already made your decision before these shows even make it to air, as you’ve expressed in the other thread. Reservations, sure, but it sounds like more than that given how you’ve disputed differing opinions. I could be wrong, of course, but I don’t know what your aim is before we’ve even seen this material?
I was interested in The Long Night too and wish they gave it another shot but for whatever reason, they didn’t give it the go-ahead. I wasn’t “disturbed” that it wasn’t given the green light, maybe something didn’t work. We’re not privy to that knowledge. Also, HBO has quite a few options wrt material they can work with so they had choices.
HBO doesn’t do only shows based off of books now, they do original content too. These shows are based on GRRM’s universe. They don’t require book IP for every show they do.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Honestly, I understand having reservations, I have some too over the amount of shows they’re putting into development. I feel that they’re throwing a lot at the wall based on what IP GRRM is willing to license and seeing what sticks. I don’t think all of these shows will work and I have the feeling HBO is more testing the waters at this point to see what will work and what doesn’t with the 2021/22 audience. Audience appetites, tastes, and preferences transform and go back and forth over time.
Still, I want to give this stuff a chance before writing it off as mediocre filler and personally, I do like this period of anticipation where details are slowly revealed. It’s always my favourite time in the production cycle because of the anticipation and unknown.
I’m sorry if I was too harsh before :/
LatrineDiggerBrian,
I fear they’re pandering to the lowest common denominator: “Dragons, dragons, and more dragons!” I can’t hide my disappointment that the Jane Goldman-scripted, Naomi Watts-starring prequel was canned – without a chance to “fix” whatever the HBO suit thought was wrong with it. (I liked Jane Goldman’s “Kick-Ass,” and I love everything Naomi Watts has been in. “Blood Moon” snared an A-List lead actor …and then just let her walk? 😡)
Then again, let’s see how HotD turns out. I thought Star Trek: The Next Generation would blow because of its cheesy name; it turned out to be better than the original series, and the two-part series premiere piqued my interest and convinced me to keep watching.
⚠️ Caveat: House of the Dragon had better hit the ground running. With all of the competition from streaming services these days, I suspect that if the first episode or two of HotD doesn’t blow away the audience, viewership will plummet and the series might get Show!Doraned or Vinyled after one season.
”…Deadline has confirmed that Amanda Segel is the first announced writer to tackle the legendary Princess Nymeria and her, well, 10,000 ships…”
… ”And let’s of course not forget (in case the picture above didn’t remind you) that one of our favorite heroines named her direwolf after the legendary Nymeria.”
Adventures on the high seas, starring an intrepid captain at the helm of the flagship of an impressive fleet. Sounds like fun! She could explore strange new lands, and seek our new life and new civilizations. And boldly go where No One has gone before.
Richard Branson,
I think that would be on the less feasible side than a prequel and may not be as possible, comprising of some obstacles. First, licensing rights. I think GRRM would have to sign off on on a sequel when he hasn’t finished ASOIAF. He may not have the story beyond ASOIAF figured out and could want ASOIAF characters’ stories to end at ASOIAF. There’s also that the actors may not be up for it as there are those who have expressed the desire to move on to the next stage of their careers from a character they’ve lived with for ten years, which I think makes sense given the amount of time they’ve spent on GoT and the intensity of the show. Some have grown up on the series and other actors have spent the entire first leg of their careers on the show, wanting to take this opportunity to explore new avenues in their careers and they appear to have the means for it now.
Conversely, some of these prequels have narratives written down and deal with material GRRM is willing to license for adaptation and would require a new cast. Anything post-ASOIAF seems to be a thornier thing.
Adrianacandle,
I didn’t think you were too harsh. You’re right that HBO doesn’t solely rely on IP, but in this instance it just feels like they’re trying not to strikeout when they should be swinging for the fences like they always have done. And I hope you’re right about HBO’s approach, in initially reading this article I thought they had hired Amanda Segal to be the showrunner, but she’s only getting a crack at writing the script. I just want someone who’s proven themselves before, it’s why I like Bruno Heller getting hired for one of the other series (big fan of Rome).
Look, my prediction for House of the Dragon is it’s going to get over 90% on RT and I think most of the GoT fanbase is going to like it. But I think in the end, it’s not going to be memorable, it’s going to be along the lines of how I feel about a lot of the Marvel stuff. It’ll have good casting and some good stuff about it, but in the end it’ll feel like eating McDonalds.
The first 5 seasons or so of the original series were a transcendent experience for me. I was obsessed with the show. Everything about the world and the characters made so much sense to me. So my standards are high. It’s why I was happy with Jane Goldman, she had written or co-written a bunch of scripts for movies that I’ve really enjoyed. She met the standard of the type of showrunner I think they should hire. Ryan Condal and Miguel Sapochnik just don’t, and I’ve stated why I think that a million times so I’m not going to repeat it.
Overall, I am cynical, but ultimately my criticism stems from the fact that I want the spinoff to reach the very lofty heights of the original series. I don’t see it going in that direction as of now, but I’m not going to watch it with the intention of hating it.
Ten Bears,
Re: the dragons and more dragons thing. I definitely got that impression when they first announced it. The more I hear about the source material though, the more I am interested in it. Supposedly it’s a more twisted story than the original series. Hopefully they don’t lameify it and white wash it by paying too much attention to the nutty Twitter crowd, but I’m sure they will. Certain characters will be off limits. It’s probably actually going to be very obvious who’s going to die in the pilot or first season, but we’ll see.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Oh good 🙂 I was obsessing a bit tbh ^^;;;;
I don’t think this is the same case as something like (to use your example earlier) The Sopranos because that isn’t an adaptation but an entirely original series developed on its own while these shows are coming from other IP with established stories (well, with the exception of the Fleabottom spin-off but GRRM has expressed an interest before all this in setting an individual story there, I believe — gotta find the source for that though).
The Long Night was probably my favourite choice but it’s also in the realm of adaptation too and, especially considering the options HBO has to chose from in regard to GRRM’s universe, may not have felt like the best choice for whatever the reason. Or maybe they saw too many problems in the pilot. I have no idea until this information is revealed :/ They did seem invested in the idea at least until the pilot stage. The difference between this and the GoT pilot is that HBO has pretty plentiful options when it comes to GRRM’s universe. Or maybe there are different people in charge making these decisions?
This is where I feel like you’ve made your decision before the material has even aired and are declaring it mediocre (at best) filler. I think the judgement of the material prior to its release is our biggest divide.
I’ve spoken in the other thread about how some accomplished writers are not guaranteed hits while other writers, relatively unknowns, can do a great job if they find the right project. However, I’ll likewise will refrain from repeating my arguments as well because I don’t want to contribute to this thread becoming a GoT fight.
I’m unfamiliar with both Goldman and Condal so I don’t have strong feelings either way, I just want to give things a chance before I assess.
I did really like The Good Wife though so I have a better sense of familiarity with her work, I think? But I also think subjective assessment of a writer’s previous material may not be the best basis to declare a show mediocre before it’s even hit the (public) light of day.
For me, I don’t want it to be the same show as the original series — I’d like these to be separate shows that stand in their own right and are enjoyable apart from their predecessor (ie. the difference between BtVS and its spin-off Buffy — both good shows but ones that hit different genres and could be watched and engaged in independently of one another). And I do think this will be crucial if these shows are to become successes. However, I think they can be quality shows in their own right and I’d like to give them a chance.
I think it’s a wait and see scenario.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Clarification typo!
*I did really like The Good Wife though so I have a better sense of familiarity with *Amanda Segel’s work, I think?
(That said, I don’t know how often she wrote for The Good Wife or the significance of her contributions there. Of all the series listed that she’s been involved with, The Good Wife is the only one I’ve watched).
*ie. the difference between BtVS and its spin-off *Angel — both good shows but ones that hit different genres and could be watched and engaged in independently of one another
Yeah that’s fair – Lord knows I can be hyper-critical about some things and then have to end up occasionally eating my words (which I somewhat begrudgingly do). 😜
I think there’s an awful lot that still needs to be known about the upcoming shows. They have some good actors and crew already for me to be fairly optimistic. I really did like the sound of Blood Moon though, and I very much like Cogman, so I hope he can have a role if he wants it, despite not having his project go ahead.
Pigeon,
Blood Moon, yes, that’s the right name!! I keep using the wrong one 🙁 Brain blank 🙁
It could be that for sure. But if it moves on to full production mode and is approved as a series, audiences have already seen an adventure set on the high seas in the form of “Back Sails”, a fairly solid, gritty, adult oriented and well performing show (it was meant to be a prequel to Robert Louise Stevenson’s novel “Treasure Island”) that ran for four season over on Starz. Sure the series concluded in 2017 and maybe enough time passes that a show like “10,000 Ships” may work, especially given our short (and ever shortening) attention span…so who knows, we will see…
I am a fan of old-school pulpy adventures. If you ask me, I’d leave high-stakes politicking to the other spin-off and base this one around crazy adventures at the edge of the world. Abandoned cities in the middle of the jungle, pirates on the high seas, strange plagues… well… plaguing idyllic islands, enormous sea turtles doing stuff that only enormous sea turtles would dare do, exploring Cthulhu-esque ruins inhabited by vaguely disconcerting people with fishlike qualities.
I’m all for it! Not gonna get it though, probably.
And here we go again… labeling GoT audience as dumb and I imagine if you wouldn’t like HotD (which you already seem determined to dislike) everyone who will enjoy it will be dumb and mindless. FFS… and no, this is not skepticism in my eyes, it’s straight downerism because I’ve been noticing comments like this from you since S6 which aired 5 years ago.
In Ryan Condal”s defence, I think “Colony” was pretty good. I haven’t had the chance to see the third (final) season yet, but the first two seasons were sophisticated stuff and far, far better than the dumbed-down disasters that “Falling Skies” and the “V” reboot ended up being. All three shows dealt with the “alien invasion” theme, of course, but Colony took a much more intelligent and nuanced approach.
Even the details of some of the recon methods that the aliens had used as part of their pre-invasion military strategy were realistic (eg. they’d exploited the fact that so much of the world is now online — the aliens had hacked the entire global internet and all computer systems connected to it, including government and intelligence organisations, so the amount of information they already had on nearly everyone and everything was huge). There were also various other things which were very feasible examples of exactly how an alien civilisation could initially conquer Earth in the fastest, most efficient way possible and then subjugate the population effectively (it was all very calculated and well-organised).
It struck me that the showrunners/writers had done their homework and really thought things through carefully. So it may be worthwhile giving Condal more credit — he seems to be a smart guy.
Like I’ve already said a couple of times on this website, I really strongly recommend “Black Sails”, especially the final two seasons (3 & 4). If you’re looking for something that matches the quality of the first four seasons of GoT at its very best, Black Sails is it, at least from the second season onwards. Acting, production values, cinematography, dialogue, it’s all there. In fact, I’d even go so far as to say that the level of superbly-acted “high thread count” scenes with fantastic eloquent dialogue ends up even better than GoT. It’s a very, very clever and layered show. Completely nails the ending too; without giving away any spoilers, it’s ingenious — *fiendishly* smart, even — particularly after it sinks in, and it all hinges on whether the viewer believes one of the characters is fundamentally a nice guy or a villain (the showrunners have later confirmed this was deliberate).
HotD, 10000 Ships and any other GoT prequels would do very well to hire some of Sails’ regular/lead actors, directors and dialogue writers too.
Back to Nymeria. Anyone got any ideas on the best casting for the lead character?
Here’s a (spoiler-free) description of Nymeria’s appearance and character from ASOIAF Wiki:
A couple of initial suggestions come to mind:
Eva Green.
Kasia Smutniak, previously from “Devils”, more recently the lead character in “Domina” (she plays the Roman emperor Augustus’s formidable wife Livia; Liam “Ser Davos” Cunningham has a semi-recurring role as her father). Kasia is charismatic, a very good actor, also looks the part. Only hitch could be that the quoted description of Nymeria above (except for the warrior/battlefield stuff) also describes her character in Domina, so she might have reservations about typecasting.
I was thinking Olga Kurylenko could be very good as Nymeria too, especially after recently seeing her in “Momentum”. So-so film, but Olga herself was a revelation. Turns out to be a great actor, she can definitely hold her own as the lead, and she was fantastic in the Bourne-style combat scenes. I’m not surprised she’d been one of the final actors being considered for Wonder Woman alongside Gal Gadot before Gal landed the part.
Other options? Maybe Jessica Brown Findlay, after seeing her in “Brave New World” a few months ago. (So-so adaptation of the famous book — albeit visually stylish — but Jessica was pretty good).
.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Agree about Bruno Heller, Rome was obviously a huge influence on Thrones (from paving the way for gritty historically based drama to the actual style–the shows are very similar). Wasn’t aware he was involved in one of the spin-offs (just found out it’s 9 Voyages) will definitley be watching it.
Jai,
”Back to Nymeria. Anyone got any ideas on the best casting for the lead character?”
Ooh! Fancasting. I’ll play!
In addition to your four initial suggestions, I’ve got three potential candidates.
Query: Are there any more descriptions of Nymeria, e.g., physical appearance, age, or idiosyncrasies, other than the “appearance and character from ASOIAF Wiki” you excerpted?
…. to be continued …
Jai,
You wrote: “A couple of initial suggestions come to mind:
Eva Green.
Kasia Smutniak, previously from “Devils”, more recently the lead character in “Domina” (she plays the Roman emperor Augustus’s formidable wife Livia; Liam “Ser Davos” Cunningham has a semi-recurring role as her father). Kasia is charismatic, a very good actor, also looks the part. Only hitch could be that the quoted description of Nymeria above (except for the warrior/battlefield stuff) also describes her character in Domina, so she might have reservations about typecasting.”
I am not familiar with Kasia Smutniak.
While I adore Eva Green, I suspect she of all people would have reservations about typecasting. The “quoted description of Nymeria above” including “the warrior/battlefield stuff” on the high seas describes Eva Green’s character, the commander of the Persian fleet, in “300: Rise of an Empire” (2014).
Here’s a brief [4:45] clip* from 300: Rise of an Empire (2014), with Eva Green facing off at sea against Spartan Queen Cersei – I mean Queen Gorgo – played by Lena Headey:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx5NdxMamaI
* ⚠️ Spoiler Alert: Clip is from near the end of the movie, so you may want to refrain from watching the clip if you have not seen the movie yet and intend to do so.
P.S. While I liked the first “300” movie better than this sequel, Eva Green vs. Lena Headey was a geek’s dream come true. At least for this geek…
Adrianacandle,
I’m not saying I want it to be exactly like the original series, but I want to have all of the hallmarks that made it what it was, i.e. lots of super interesting shades of grey characters, innovative plotting where no one is safe, etc. Generally something overall that is very bleak and cynical, and no ridiculous character protection. If it’s a series in the world of GRRM and ASOIAF, it has to fit his style of writing because that’s what made the original series so popular in the first place.
And actually, I prefer someone like Amanda who at least has a clean slate and we don’t know what to expect from her over someone who’s had an opportunity already and really hasn’t anything that memorable.
Erik, formerly Lord Parramandas,
It’s just what happens when you blow up and more casual fans jump on board to watch because their friends do or it’s what everyone is talking about. These people are not as dedicated as the people on this site and have different expectations. So then when they just tune in to root for their favorite character and that character ends up getting their head cut off unexpectedly, then it really traumatizes them, they go complain on Twitter, and that can influence HBO as now they want to keep this big audience because it’s a cash cow for them.
Richard,
Yup, Rome paved the way for GoT. HBO always regretted canceling it, but it taught them how to do a large international production.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Sure, and I think it’s very possible HoTD can hit a lot of those marks. HotD’s narrative is already published for those interested and it is kind of a very bleak story already (if you’re interested in it, you can find the stories in Fire & Blood, as well as the short novellas The Princess and the Queen and The Rouge Prince). I’m not familiar with these individuals as writers so I can’t judge their work in this arena before I’ve seen it. I think it’s a wait-and-see situation. The popular series Breaking Bad was no walk in the park and it had many of the features you described. I also really like Better Call Saul, although it has a different flavour from Breaking Bad. Still interesting, complex, and is good for engaging discussions. It’s not the phenomena Breaking Bad was but it is a good, quality show, I think.
With regard to Amanda, I don’t know what she worked on with The Good Wife but I know I really enjoyed that series. It also had some great characterization and dilemmas. I think, of all the available spin-offs, Nymeria may be my favourite one. I like the above discussions going over fancasting.
Better this every once in a while then totally playing it safe with ur opinions.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Don’t hold back, LDB. I enjoy reading your opinions.
Ten Bears,
I don’t know. However, I expect Adriana may be the best person to ask.
Ten Bears,
Well, people who have visited this site for some time will know that I missed the Eva Green appreciation gene. I don’t know the work of the other two ladies Jai mentioned so can’t judge them.
GRRM is supposed to have said that Janina Gavankar resembled his mental image of Arianne (excised from GoT show Martell). Princess Nymeria married into the Martell family so perhaps Janina Gavankar as Nymeria could be considered though I don’t know a great deal about her acting prowess. Do we have any idea how old Nymeria is meant to be?
Jai,
Ten Bears,
Unfortunately, I’m not aware of any physical description for Nymeria beyond “fierce and beautiful” from The World of Ice and Fire: Ancient History, Ten Thousand Ships 🙁 I did do a search of all the books, as well as both world books and the mini novellas I have but that’s all I could find. I’m sorry about that 🙁
Adrianacandle,
Don’t worry, thank you for looking into it. Actually the lack of a detailed physical description for Nymeria expands potential casting choices, assuming the actors already look like the general descriptions of typical Rhoynar or could be credibly made to look that way.
Adrianacandle,
I appreciate that. I was just trying to get a general idea of how old Nymeria is supposed to be, though I suppose that like GoT, a TV adaptation could age up Nymeria and other characters.
So let’s see… ”fierce and beautiful”…
True!
Yeah, there’s no set age for Nymeria at the start of her story that I could find but I know her rule of Dorne lasts for about two decades and a half. I think she’s probably generic young-adult-age starting out her story, whatever that means to anyone 🙂
Here’s an illustration of her from the The World of Ice & Fire but I don’t think any fancasting needs to be limited to this look: click!
First Nymeria Fancasting Candidate:
Ally Ioannides (age 23).
(Part 1 of 2)
I first saw Ally Ioannides in a guest-starring role on an episode of “Elementary” with Jonny Lee Miller as Sherlock Holmes: S4e7, “Miss Taken,” which aired on January 7, 2016. (A link to a 30-second promo clip will follow; unfortunately there are no other clips from that episode on YouTube.)
I thought she was phenomenal on “Elementary.”
She also played “Dylan” in the series “Parenthood” (2014-2015), though I’ve never seen that show. She was “Tilda” in the series “Into the Badlands” (2015-2019); I watched a couple of episodes in Season 2 but couldn’t get into the martial arts-Dystopian future feudal society. She was good though.
• Here’a a picture of Ally Ioannides:
https://iv1.lisimg.com/image/21647814/720full-ally-ioannides.jpg
• …and here she is as Tilda on “Into the Badlands”
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2IXrFNXgAYFSmx.jpg
– to be continued –
Part 2 of 2 (continued from 12:09 pm)
• Here’s another shot of Ally Ioannides on set as “Tilda”
https://www.justamericanjackets.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Tida-Into-the-Badlands-Leather-Coat.jpg
• … and finally, here’s the link to the 31-second promo for the January 7. 2016 “Elementary” episode “Miss Taken” guest-starring Ally Ioannides.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q53Fd7XTvc
Adrianacandle,
I just clicked on the link to the “illustration of Nymeria from The World of Ice and Fire” embedded in your 11:44 am comment:
https://i.imgur.com/tCC2cdB_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
To me, Ally Ioannides has the same “look,” and appears to be age-appropriate for the role, i.e.,“she’s probably generic young-adult-age starting out her story.”
Skeptical is one thing. I am skeptical too, but what you’re doing is a bit beyond skeptical. It’s just repetitively negative on a fan site. Please keep that in mind when people respond to you. You can have your opinion, as they can have theirs.
I actually agree, but I think the Sopranos would get shot down simply because it would be deemed “too offensive”. The show had to deal with that crap even when it was airing and actually covered it in-show. Just imagine how bad it would be today.
That’s really the one and only reason I’m personally skeptical about HOTD. It will go out of it’s way to appease the perpetually offended, which will create a bland, boring, and predictable product.
I agree, Ally Ioannides bears a resemblance to that illustration and 23 seems to be a good age to start Nymeria at — it can also play as late teens or a bit older.
Snippet of dialogue from “Elementary” episode:
Sherlock Holmes: “So how old are you? Really?”
Cassie: “Fifteen…No, wait, twenty -five. Or maybe it’s some other number.”
I’m rewatching The Sopranos for the first time these days, after originally watching it in 2015 (one of my top 5 TV shows btw) and there’s…no…freaking…way this TV show would work today without attracting entire wave of criticism. “Employee of the Month”….uhhhh, that episode makes Sansa’s wedding night with Ramsay tame to me and at least Sansa gets revenge in following season unlike dr. Melfi in this episode. If I know right, that episode was controversial even then and that was 20 years ago. I can only imagine if it aired these days. And it’s ironic that Sopranos doesn’t even try to “romanticize” the mafia or anything, but rather excels in making the entire tone very gritty and bleak in later seasons but I’m sure mere existance of such TV show would be “insulting” to various critics and certain audience if it was created these days
Mr Derp,
Yeah this was starting to happen a lot towards the end of the original series and I definitely fear the same. People are so fucking afraid of a few loud voices on Twitter it’s ridiculous. Whatever if they white wash I’m out.
Ten Bears,
Your Ally link doesn’t work in the UK unfortunately. No doubt I can google the actress’s name.
Wasn’t Nymeria supposed to be brown or olive skinned though? Talisa Maegyr of GOT is said to be of Volantys and since she clearly does NOT look Valyrian, then she must be of Rhoynar descent.
While Mors Martell was probably Hispanic or southeast European, Nymeria was supposed to be more “Middle Eastern” IMHO.
Well, Volantis is located along the river Rhoyne. The Rhoynar lived in cities located along the Rhoyne.
However, there’s nothing in my recall about Nymeria’s or Mor’s skin colour in the source material or about the Rhoynar or Andals being equated to a real-world race. Nymeria is of the Rhoynar, who are described as having olive skin and dark hair per The World of Ice and Fire:
The World of Ice and Fire: The Free Cities, The Quarrelsome Daughters Myr, Lys, and Tyrosh.
This can cover a large breadth. Meanwhile, Morgan Martell — founder of House Martell — was an Andal. I believe it’s from Nymeria and Mors Martell that the Dornish (and Martells) have the most Rhoynish blood in Westeros.
There is still variation among the Dornish though:
The World of Ice and Fire: Dorne
Adrianacandle,
I should also add that Volantis was one of the largest cities and once among the most populated cities so it’s likely they’d have some variation among their people with connections to Valyria and Rhoyne both:
Musical break:
loco73,
Alanis Morissette
https://alanis.com/events
… Now lemme click on your link to see what song you chose…
loco73,
I never heard that song by Alanis Morissette.
Here, try this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1RP0hXWgX0
0:09:54 – Hand In My Pocket
0:20:43 – You Learn
0:40:18 – You Oughta Know
0:50:22 – Thank U
0:55:06 – Ironic
…. and 21 years later…
live at home
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4pjiTib1nE
💊
Adrianacandle,
Is that from ADWD? I wasn’t overly fond of the voyage down the Rhoyne and didn’t mind the show cutting it though they referred it obliquely in the blue-ray for the appropriate season. I’ll probably get people jumping on me from a great height figuratively telling me I lack taste (runs and hides).
Do you mean Nymeria or Volantis in general? I got these details from the world book The World of Ice and Fire, not the ASOIAF book themselves.
While Nymeria and Volantis are individually referenced in ASOIAF, Nymeria’s story doesn’t happen in ASOIAF but ages and ages and ages before ASOIAF even begins. It’s part of the world’s ancient history 🙂 Nymeria’s full story is told in the world book The World of Ice and Fire. Ditto details of Volantis and its history.
Dame of Mercia
They didn’t mention the voyage itself on the bluerays but did describe the River Rhoyne. The attack of the stone men was included in the show but it wasn’t on the Rhoyne and it involved a different character and Tyrion to the books.
Dame of Mercia,
I got the details/stories of the Rhoyne from The World of Ice and Fire, the world book and (in-universe) history book as well 🙂
Adrianacandle,
It’s a while since I read ADWD and I’m not one to re-read and re-read – so many books to read and I’m getting on in years. I remember Nymeria being referenced by Princess Not Appearing in the Series from Dorne (example the speech about Nymeria’s star).
Dame of Mercia,
Yes, Nymeria is referenced in ASOIAF as a historical figure but I don’t think her full story is, only pieces. Because Nymeria is considered part of the ancient histories of this world, her story is covered in The World of Ice and Fire.
Adrianacandle,
Someone would need to ask GRRM about which specific real-world cultures he based the Rhoynar on; also, GoT’s on-screen depiction of Dorne was obviously based on medieval Andalucia to some extent.
However, a lot of stuff about the population and culture of the society that lived along the Rhoyne *does* pretty closely match historical counterparts in real-world South Asia, especially near the Indus and (most of all) Ganges rivers, including religious beliefs focused on the Ganges. Even the descriptions of ornate “orphan boats” match Kashmir’s famous houseboats that visitors can still hire for stays. Tyrion’s thoughts on Old Volantis (and his description of the city) are very similar to historical accounts of major cities in northern India during periods of medieval decline. The physical descriptions of the Rhoynar match common appearances from the Mediterranean to the Middle East to South Asia, of course.
I’m beginning to agree with this. It’s an interesting story, and there’s a lot of scope for creativity in how it’ll look on-screen. I suspect the depiction of Essosi royal culture in the new show is going to look very opulent. The specific influences from the real world that the designers will draw inspiration from remains to be seen — they’re spoilt for choice — but at least in the books, the Indian elements in the Rhoynar are obvious.
Jai,
Adrianacandle wrote: “… Nymeria is of the Rhoynar, who are described as having olive skin and dark hair per The World of Ice and Fire:…”
Jai replied, in part:
”However, a lot of stuff about the population and culture of the society that lived along the Rhoyne *does* pretty closely match historical counterparts in real-world South Asia, especially near the Indus and (most of all) Ganges rivers, including religious beliefs focused on the Ganges. ….Tyrion’s thoughts on Old Volantis (and his description of the city) are very similar to historical accounts of major cities in northern India during periods of medieval decline. The physical descriptions of the Rhoynar match common appearances from the Mediterranean to the Middle East to South Asia…”
….but at least in the books, the Indian elements in the Rhoynar are obvious.”
• Well then, my First Nymeria Fancasting candidate, Alexia “Ally” Ioannides, is a Greek-American actor, and has that “Mediterranean” look: dark hair, olive skin – though I’m not sure if blue eyes factors into that.
• However, my upcoming Second Nymeria Fancasting Candidate might be a better match for the physical appearance you described: She has the dark hair, recently portrayed a biracial adoptee on a miniseries, and her name is…. India.
Ten Bears,
Thanks 👍👍
Ten Bears,
Thank you for your suggestions! Always nice ones 😉
Nice points, Jai!!
In my head, I envisioned Dorne as closer to Spain (which would be maybe considered part of the Mediterranean?) because of Spain’s own arid, hot climate and high fruit productivity resembling Dorne’s own. But I think you make good points here too. I’m wondering if GRRM sort of mish-mashed areas?
I agree! It could be really really interesting and such a unique, engaging show. With your words here, I think it may have definitely become my favourite prequel. I think it’s got a lot of potential going for it!
Of all the thread derailments…freaking Alanis Morissette…
Erik, formerly Lord Parramandas,
Totally agree if The Sopranos aired today with social media some of the outrage would be insane. She basically forgives her rapist in the show people would be going insane on social media about that episode which is brutal.
Adrianacandle,
When the actor who played Selmy said that George took to his blog and said that was a complete lie and George seemed pretty angry in his writing that he said he was waiting for the show to finish and the books were already done.
I know…imagine the horror and tragedy…the light of the Seven help us!!
Mr Derp,
Shall we go in another direction? Follow me down the rabbit hole 🐇 🕳….
That would be far preferable: that way, they could construct the plot around the story. However: it also is completely unnecessary, as they could set the writer(s) almost certainly could tell the story just as well (if not better) without using Martin’s world or characters. Really, there isn’t much that the established characters & plot-elements would offer except name-recognition.
loco73,
Well, if Mr. D isn’t interested in my upcoming 5-part musical interlude, you might be: It features a musical prodigy, and enhanced versions of songs by Rage Against the Machine, Led Zeppelin, Stray Cats, Rush, Deep Purple, and a few others I’d ordinarily not have listened to.
🐇 🕳
It’s been quite a while since I’ve checked in and even longer since I’ve posted. I hope everyone I knew from back in the day is well.
I’m not sure what made me decide to check in, but to say I was pleased to see this article is an understatement.
May this spin-off be both excellent and successful.
Take care, y’all!
Well, what a fitting person to post here after so long. 😊 Welcome back!!!!!
Indeed!!
This may be a good omen that the Nymeria prequel will take off! 🙂
Sorry I may have missed this but has the full season 1 been green lit or are we still at pilot stage for this? I feel as though it could be interesting but equally won’t feel too much like GOT simply because we didn’t spend very much time in Dorne (and what we did was in my opinion some of the weakest material on the show).
Jane’s earlier work is super good however not sure how it would relate to the world of Westeros (as imagined by GRRM) in fact it may feel a little bit like the Last Jedi in the Star Wars universe which made HBO panic I suspect.
Ten Bears,
Hellz yeah! Bring it on! LOL
loco73,
Okay then! Stand by… 🎶
He released you so you can say this?
The Lord of Light is a terrible God. 😄 But we knew that about him.
loco73,
⚠️ Off-Topic
🎶 🐇🕳 🎼 🥁
Part 1 of 5
Try these: if
+
🥁to be continued in Part 2
Part 2 of 5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8X-JAJ7CBw
+
Ian Paice reacts to Yoyoka’s drumming on “Burn”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RyJKiollcA
🥁to be continued in Part 3
Part 3 of 5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tkw57uGnSrs
+
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f38_-BmCRBo
🥁 to be continued in Part 4
Part 4 of 5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGETWi1QufE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQGjRWwamAA
loco73,
Part 5 of 5 🐇🕳
Now, you may ask how YouTube lured me down into this rabbit hole….
• 1986: Cyndi Lauper live in Japan performs “She Bop” [song starts at ~ 1:25]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we7z7PYp19I
… and 33 years later…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5hPkB6D-qU
at 2:31 – 3:09, a little Japanese girl played on drums. That was Yoyoka. From there, I saw her name and image in YouTube recommendations, clicked on one, and… down the rabbit hole I went.
While I am not a music expert (and have never particularly liked drum solos), I found myself captivated by her renditions.
* P.S. Can you believe that
I posted these videos here a couple of months ago.
Mr Derp,
Did you? I must have missed them.
So, what do you think of her?
I found myself watching her “enhanced” versions of songs by bands I’d heard about but hadn’t gotten around to listening to, e.g., Rage Against the Machine, Jamiroquai [I know I probably spelled that wrong] and Red Hot Chili Peppers.
Mr Derp,
Oh, by the way.
It looks like
Stay tuned for the video.