Tobias Menzies and Paul Kaye on their characters’ current status and the possibility of returning

Edmure

There are a number of unaccounted-for characters on Game of Thrones that fans often wonder about- our own Oz even examined these disappearing acts recently. This week, two season 3 cast members are out promoting newer projects, and their time on Game of Thrones and current status luckily came up.

Vulture catches up with Tobias Menzies, who has been doing very well since Edmure Tully fell into the hands of the Freys at the Red Wedding. The actor has been starring in Outlander in dual roles, one of them a villainous sort that’s the polar opposite of goodhearted Edmure. (In fact, much of the interview covers a rough scene on his new show and the full frontal nudity it entails- hop on over to Vulture for amusing tales of Outlander ‘modesty pouches.’)

We’ve had no updates on Edmure recently, as viewers, and can only assume he’s alive as a captive of Walder Frey. Menzies is enthusiastic about the prospect of returning to Game of Thrones to fix that loose end, in a playful discussion with Vulture, who are all for it (as are we!).

“Oh, yeah. I’m totally on board. I love that we’re plotting out the next seasons of one of the biggest shows!” He says to Vulture. “I’m not sure they’re going to listen to us, but maybe the Blackfish and Edmure Tully can get back together.”

He’s unsure if a return will happen but game for it.  “I do wonder if they’ll be able to tie up all the ends. Some, they might just have to leave alone. I think it’s going to happen, though! I’m excited. You’re basically going to get a cut of the fee. What do you want? Five percent? Ten percent? All the stars are aligning. [Laughs] I’d love to go back, and Northern Ireland’s just across the water.”

Check out the rest of the interview at Vulture.

Thoros of MyrPaul Kaye, who played the Brotherhood without Banners’ crude counterpart to Melisandre, their red priest Thoros of Myr, talks to Sunday Express today. The actor is currently co-starring in BBC’s new series Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell as Vinculus.

It was in fact his role on GoT  that helped him nab the Strange & Norrell part.

“Toby [Haynes, director] saw me in Games Of Thrones [series 3] and got me in. The first thing he said was he wanted me to make him like Iggy Pop. I thought, “Right, that’s bang up my street.”

He also cites the show for the reason there’s so much fantasy on television these days, including his latest project:

“I suppose Game Of Thrones has had a lot to do with it. I think it whet people’s appetite. I didn’t expect myself to like Thrones and I got completely sucked in. It’s not that it’s just magic or fantasy.”

As for his current status on GoT, Kaye says, “I’m still alive! It’s quite an achievement actually. I managed to avoid getting invited to certain weddings. I’m retired not out, but hoping to return.”

So there we have it, two actors from unresolved storylines that I’m sure most fans would like to see handled at some point. Let’s make that happen!

61 responses

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    1. Hoyti Von Totiy,

      He was joking with Vulture about them also wanting him back on the show very much. The gist being, I believe, he’d give them a cut of the money if he got back on the show. Since they’re helping lobby for it basically. He was being playful throughout the interview. Go read the whole thing.

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    2. I wish Jaime was on his way to Rivverun to meet Edmure and Blackfish instead of wasting time in Dorne 🙁

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    3. I think he was saying the interviewer was going to get a cut of his fee for having plotted out his return.

      I’d say Paul Kaye is very likely to return if there’s time, even if they don’t include certain characters. If the show can eventually return to Lancel and Kevan, it seems like they would want to check in on the BWB, and there’s meaty stuff there no matter how they play it. They say they want to make the televisual equivalent of a novel, and a summing up of loose ends would be more stately.

      Edmure will have gone through some changes. I liked the book material for him and I hope D&D start clinging to that like life rafts.

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    4. Al Swearengen:
      I wish Jaime was on his way to Rivverun to meet Edmure and Blackfish instead of wasting time in Dorne

      Yes! Imagine seeing the aftermath of RW.

      We really never seen anything except Sansa and Tyrion having lunch in KL and talking about what happend. Even Jon glanced over it in a 1 minute dialogue….

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    5. They’ll come back. Everyone’s naturally impatient because this is a ten episode a year show that isn’t shy about using characters only when absolutely necessary. Folk were anxious about Lancel and Kevan being missing for a few years. I trust we’ll see Edmure, Blackfish et al again nearer the end game.

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    6. I think it’s substantially more likely that we’ll see Edmure than Thoros, because the Frey story feels more “unresolved”, relatively speaking. I don’t think an arc needs to have “the good guys” getting revenge before it can end, mind you – I’m just saying it’s more likely given the number of hours the show’s got left. Fan service inevitably plays a bigger role in the decision making when faced with such limitations.

      I’d absolutely love to see Thoros and Beric again, though. Tyrion did mention the former in the Volantis ep. That’s encouraging.

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    7. Now I haven’t watched every TV show ever made, but there is a chance that this show could end with the most loose ends in televsion history for shows that were not prematurely cancelled. And where is Benejn.

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    8. Valaquen:
      They’ll come back. Everyone’s naturally impatient because this is a ten episode a year show that isn’t shy about using characters only when absolutely necessary. Folk were anxious about Lancel and Kevan being missing for a few years. I trust we’ll see Edmure, Blackfish et al again nearer the end game.

      U cannot compare Kevan to the Tullys and Freys.

      Kevan is right by Hot Pie by exposure in the books.

      Yes he gets important in AFFC but GRRm kills him like 5 minutes after he becomes Regent.

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    9. Darkstar,

      It is inevitable that many plot threads will remain loose in the show.
      We are dealing with a source material than pushes the limits of storytelling even in book form, forget being adaptable for TV.

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    10. I expect both Edmure and the blackfish back for season 6, I think the actor playing Walder Frey has said he’ll be back in season 6, so it’s a good time to get up with them. They also have more time for characters in that season as they will kill a big bunch of them this season.

      If it were up to me they’d add the following characters for season 6, both new and old. Edmure, Blackfish, Randyll Tarly, Archmaester Marwyn, Euron, Walder Frey, “lame” Lothar Frey, Lord Hightower, Justin Massey, Harry Strickland and Gendry most like.

      I think I might even have forgot one or two in that list, but this looks like what would be fine additions for the next season without adding many new storylines.

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    11. Outlander ‘n GoT have some ‘things’ in common. They consist of the same ingredients: i) erotica & passion (ofc there’s more nudity in Outlander, ‘n the staring actress Caitriona Balfe is sexier than any GoT babe!); ii) political context & violence (in Outlander, Scotsmen yearn for independence form England); iii) mystery (time traveling in Outlander).

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    12. 100% speculation

      I think Arya is returning to the Riverlands at some point in the books (her wolf and a bunch of loose ends remain there). I think in the show, she’ll also be the one to take revenge on the Freys. So I’m 100% sure Edmure and Walder will reappear. Blackfish, Thoros and Berric are another matter, though I’d like to think Arya will cross paths with them on the way to the Twins (with the Blackfish joining the BWB). They were on her list in season 4…

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    13. I really hope Tobias comes back! I loved him as Edmure, one of my favourite characters from the book done just right on screen 😀

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    14. HelloThere,

      Absolutely. I imagine we won’t get the answer to many questions. I can live without the BWB ever being heard from again, especially with the absence of LSH.

      I just really hope that Benjen’s fate does not go unanswered.

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    15. Uknow0,

      Yes, except the plot line in Outlander is increasingly redundant – first Jamie gets abducted/Claire saves him, then Claire gets abducted/Jamie saves her. Add a little tortureporn, rinse and repeat. Yawn

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    16. Uknow0,

      In my opinion, the erotica and passion in Outlander is actually, well, erotic and passionate. 95% percent of the sex in GoT is just for shock value.

      Sasanach…………

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    17. Felt Pelt:
      I’d say Paul Kaye is very likely to return if there’s time, even if they don’t include certain characters. If the show can eventually return to Lancel and Kevan, it seems like they would want to check in on the BWB, and there’s meaty stuff there no matter how they play it. They say they want to make the televisual equivalent of a novel, and a summing up of loose ends would be more stately.

      Edmure will have gone through some changes. I liked the book material for him and I hope D&D start clinging to that like life rafts.

      The show returned Lancel and Kevan because they returned to the story in prominent ways: Cersei rejecting the last helping hand and Lancel returned with the Sparrows – and in the book is driving the plot. Those two, especially Lancel, are necessary to have. To only real question was if they were being recast or not.

      But, Thoros of Myr? Meaty stuff? Most of the meaty stuff that’s there has been cut. LSH, Brienne and Jaime in the Riverlands.. As Tobias says, some loose ends are better left. Bringing up the Riverlands now does nothing for the show. A lot of what the BWB is working towards has been cut and not even mentioned once. Oldtown has a bigger shot of happening.

      D&D are jumping off the deep end with their adaptation, mostly because most of it has not been written from this point onwards. Dance/Feast, Winds and Dreams are the second trilogy, so they only had the set up and will deviate vastly to get to the end of Dreams in less time it would need for the books to be faithfully adapted. This is not a bash, this is realistic and I don’t mind it. Just look at what they’re doing with Meereen.

      All Meereenese characters save Hizdahr have been cut (Green Grace, Reznak, Skahaz), and thus while the book Harpy may not be Hizdahr, it’s pretty clear who the Harpy is in the show, there’s literally no other option in the show (Daario is fighting the Harpies in Daznak’s Pit). I’m pretty sure that there’s not even going to be a Siege of Meereen, unless Jorah’s now going to take Bazza’s place.

      The show is simplifying and contracting storylines in order to get where they need, oh did I mention cutting storylines? #Jaime in Riverlands/Sansa in the Vale?

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    18. Let’s make a distinction here. If a character has served their narrative purpose, simply excluding that character does not constitute a loose end.

      That being said, BF escaping the RW is in fact a storytelling decision that would strongly suggest he still has a role to play.

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    19. Ser Oromis Locke,
      The BWB’s arc isn’t necessarily cut. It can be returned to already in progress, along with Freys/Tullys.

      Jaime can still go to the Riverlands. Thoros and Anguy can still descend into a hell of senseless violence. Perhaps with Blackfish at their head if not Stoneheart. Gendry can be Tom o’ Sevens. Lancel and Kevan could have easily been written out and replaced with Faith Militant guy #2 and Lannister relative #5. I like Jaime’s arc (dispensing justice at castles), and we don’t know what they’ll use and what’s gone for good yet.

      And I love both missing bits. I think it really shows the nature of war to see Thoros stringing people up. Jaime will probably break off ties with his sister this year, you’re right, but his disinterested castle visits are great.

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    20. Greg:
      Now I haven’t watched every TV show ever made, but there is a chance that this show could end with the most loose ends in televsion history for shows that were not prematurely cancelled.And where is Benejn.

      Nothing compared to Lost

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    21. Kevan and Lancel are obviously needed for the story this season. Lancel for the sparrows and Kevan for the last shot the seven kingdoms has of stability before Varyss grand reveal.

      BWB and Riveands simply have no more story left to tell judging by what the show cut.

      Having said that it would be a most welcome surprise if they did find d a way to get them back in there for something, even a cameo.

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    22. goodkinghenry:
      Kevan and Lancel are obviously needed for the story this season. Lancel for the sparrows and Kevan for the last shot the seven kingdoms has of stability before Varyss grand reveal.

      BWB and Riveands simply have no more story left to tell judging by what the show cut.

      Having said that it would be a most welcome surprise if they did find d a way to get them back in there for something, even a cameo.

      Well, if any of the forshadowing is to be taken into account, then the Riverlands do have some story left. It’s just not one of the main stories at all.

      For instance, there’s going to be a Frey-wedding at Riverrun (mentioned to be Red Wedding 2.0), and its there that the BWB are likely to make a strike. What’s also significant is that it’s going to be the moment that the hostages held in the Twins are going to be taken down the Kingsroad, where Blackfish/BWB will try to free them – which would be the moment when the Northern Lords wouldn’t need to worry about their heirs who were taken captive during the Red Wedding/Battle of Duskendale. At which point those lords (Manderly, Umber, etc) will revolt against the Boltons inside Winterfell. At which point Roose would’ve already lost the Frey contingent in the Battle of Ice (not to be confused with the Battle for Winterfell).

      Thus, there are points of the Riverland story that are necessary in the books, but wouldn’t be necessary in the show due to cut characters.

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    23. I think Unsullied do wonder what’s up with Edmure since the RW. Perhaps when Sansa is rescued we’ll get at least that question answered, even if they don’t show us.

      And yes, Tobias is thrilling as Black Jack Randall. Ramsey has nothing on him.

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    24. I have assumed that the Tullys and Walder Frey will return next season. I’ve thought that part of what Littlefinger is trying to do is unify the North, Vale, and Riverlands with Sansa, Robin, and eventually Edmure (or Robin/Sansa as heirs to Riverrun if Edmure does not have another heir). Edmure will be likely to join an alliance with his niece and nephew. Even if LSH and BWB are cut, I think Edmure will eventually get Riverrun back one way or another.

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    25. Talking about foreshadowing… I quote Brienne in ‘Kill the Boy’: “I served lady Catelyn, I still serve lady Catelyn. Who do you serve?”

      If that isn’t promising 🙂

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    26. Hoyti Von Totiy: Yes! Imagine seeing the aftermath of RW.

      It would be extremely dull viewing. If it were not for the whole “which sucked more, Dorne or the Iron Islands” debate, I think that this would have gotten a lot more flack. GRRM was really kicking a dead horse here when he should have been moving the plot forward. And it was not like the stories set there were well-done: Jaime’s took a long time to get to the punch line, and Brienne’s never did.

      I do not know what the best solution to ensemble of problems that Dorne + Iron Islands + Riverlands created, but moving Jaime’s story to Dorne, shifting Brienne’s storyline to tail Sansa’s, and cutting out the meager and redundant storylines of new protagonists has been a good one. At any rate, it is better than any I would have had: I would have cut both Dorne, the Iron Islands and Riverlands completely, but been totally stumped about what to do with Jaime or Brienne. Obviously, Jaime has to be away from KL: but he also has to do something to further the overall plot as well as tell his part of the story. Brienne has to be chasing Stark women: but, again, she has to be something to further the overall plot AND have a coherent contribution to the story.

      ai yai yai: how I rue the bet that had Robert Jordan write Crows for GRRM….. 🙂

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    27. Aisling: I’ve thought that part of what Littlefinger is trying to do is unify the North, Vale, and Riverlands with Sansa, Robin, and eventually Edmure (or Robin/Sansa as heirs to Riverrun if Edmure does not have another heir).

      LF’s game has to be a bit more than that. After all, he contributed greatly to the North’s downfall. He’s not just burning the candle on both ends: he’s doing it while holding it over a couple of other candles in a very hot room.

      In all of these year’s, I have yet to read any conjecture about LF’s end-game that didn’t have major flaws in it. He’s the one character who truly has me stumped. (Dragons killed my pet-conjecture!)

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    28. Hoyti Von Totiy,

      I’ve always wanted a scene showing all the corpses left over after the massacre in the camps.

      Still hoping we see Arya warging into Nymeria and seeing some of that mess.

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    29. trarecar: I think Unsullied do wonder what’s up with Edmure since the RW. Perhaps when Sansa is rescued we’ll get at least that question answered, even if they don’t show us.

      They will have to show Edmure’s fate, not tell us: the audience won’t associate the name with the actor anymore at this point. (The actor is pretty well-known from Rome, Outlanders and a host of small roles, so he will be easily re-recognized. Indeed, if they put a name on his face at this point, then it is either “Brutus” or “Black Jack”!)

      trarecar: And yes, Tobias is thrilling as Black Jack Randall. Ramsey has nothing on him.

      I would not go that far. I would go so far as to say that a party with Randall, Qyburn and Ramsey would be interesting, however….. Seriously, all three do very good takes on very different types of deranged people.

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    30. One of Roose Bolton’s leeches,

      Except that the mess was over a year ago on the show: it will have been cleaned up by now. Besides, what would showing it communicate to the audience? They saw the massacre as it was happening two years ago.

      This is, incidentally, a common difference between what fans want and what the general audience wants. Fans always want extended denouements to show what happened next. (Doctor Who fans are forever complaining about this, and HP and Tolkien fans both complained a lot about it for their franchises.) However, when shows or movies do give these, they almost inevitably are panned by critics and audiences. Once you blow up the Death Star, show a short celebration and then move on to the next story or storyline.

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    31. It’s gunna be like the never ending story kinda.. 3 dragon riders flying over westeros as they look down to all the asoiaf characters as they either wave or are dead lol

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    32. Ilyn Payne seems to have been removed from Arya’s list… presumably because D&D aren’t sure about getting Wilko Johnson back.
      Walder Frey, however, is still on there. To me, this suggests that D&D DO plan on bringing him back.
      If Walder comes back, it’s highly likely Edmure will too.

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    33. I would bet on them both being back for next season. They both seem required to resolve the Frey plot, and they both seem optimistic here.

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    34. Ser Oromis Locke,

      Going back to the riverlands does nothing for the show? How so? It would make the show more interesting, thats doing some does it not? Jaimes Riverlands story is intriguing and much more interesting then a fan-fiction adventure of him and pointless Bronn.

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    35. And of course LS would be far more interesting than uninteresting and boring Sand Worms, and unnecessary crap like Myranda. Just saying…

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    36. Wimsey,

      I too wonder about LF- I think he

      has ties to Braavos- indeed, in the show he mentioned a bravoosi ancestor. His time in KL as master of coin oversaw Roberts economic disaster end up in huge debts to the iron bank.
      This could also further setup a rivalry with a pro-targ Varys.
      I don’t have much info to back this up, but Braavos is my hunch with LF

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    37. Xanth: Going back to the riverlands does nothing for the show? How so? It would make the show more interesting, thats doing some does it not? Jaimes Riverlands story is intriguing and much more interesting then a fan-fiction adventure of him and pointless Bronn.

      Except that what GRRM wrote is more typical of “fan-fiction”: a details-laden, story-lite extension a plotline that needed at most a brief denouement. The Red Wedding should have finished the Riverlands plotline. Instead, GRRM used the mop-up to tell Jaime’s

      Kill the Boy and (try to) Let Tywin II be Born

      storyline. Even the parts that this audience might find interesting in principle were not cinematic: it would be deadly dull TV.

      GRRM himself should have used Jaime’s storyline to push some aspect of the over-arching plotline forward. If GRRM really had to drag Dorne or the Iron Islands into this (and, frankly, I’m skeptical that he had to do so), then he should have gotten Jaime involved with one of them. Alternatively, perhaps he should have gotten Jaime involved in one of the Essos plotlines. Basically, cut at least one of the new protagonists, and have Jaime do the exact same storyline there.

      But, in the end, GRRM sent a primary protagonist into a finished plotline, and introduced weak protagonists (Arianne and Asha: and maybe Victarion if he’s actually supposed to be a protagonist) into new plotlines. It is stuff like this that got Crows panned so harshly. And it would have been death to the TV show.

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    38. Sister Kisser,

      That could be. What irks me somewhat is that we haven’t gotten much hint or clue. Of course, LF has been in only 4 chapters since Swords, and 2.9 of them were from Sansa’s very clueless perspective. I’m hoping that the new attentive Sansa will start noticing things about LF that inform us about what he is doing. (I do not mean a flat statement: but at least as good of hints as Rowling gave us about why Severus Snape was doing what he was.)

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    39. I feel like a lot of people seem way to certain about which plots are cut in the show. Just cause the show aren’t doing as long setups doesn’t say that it won’t get to them in time for the real action.

      For example both Oberyn, Kevan, and Lancel got introduced/brought back the story much earlier in the books but the show waited to introduce them until it was important.
      I don’t think book readers should skip the spoiler tags on “cut” book plots just yet.

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    40. Yes based on those few pages, which were awesome. And GRRM didn’t write those few pages if she wouldn’t be important… In the Winds of Winter, which we are getting to quite soon. Mark my words, she is in 🙂

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    41. Unlike the writers of Lost, who I think just made it all up as they went along (with massively diminishing returns), I trust that D&D have some sort of long-term strategy and roughly mapped out plot path for each storyline. I have no doubt Edmure and Blackfish will be back next season and can’t wait for it.

      On the flipside, and I believe GRRM may have made a comment like this himself, life itself doesn’t tie up all the loose ends nicely and neatly, it’s a sprawling mess. If some plots fade in and out without “resolution” then that’s fairly reflective of life and shows a willingness to ignore Hollywood conventions of storytelling.

      Or just that they’re making it up as they go along 🙂

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    42. Darkstar,

      HBO makes shows where people get naked because they can have naked people, but they generally do whatever it was they were going to do anyway in the show, just naked. Showtime interrupts its shows with a soft core porn scene every once in a while just to keep things interesting whether it has anything to do with the rest of the show or not, and Starz is like a slightly more hardcore, slightly more integrated version of what Showtime does.

      This varies a bit from show to show, but having watched a number of things on each channel, that’s the general impression I get.

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    43. Greg,

      Other than the Tullys and the Brotherhoood, and Rickon and Osha, there really aren’t a lot of other unresolved story lines that I can think of still out there. No way will GoT ever surpass LOST in the unresolved story lines category.

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    44. Xanth,

      How is the Riverrun plotline not anymore worthless in the books ? Besides the conversations with BlackFish and Edmure there is just garbage filler wih plenty of Lannister and Frey characters no one will care or remember,well i just described most of AFFC there . Give me Jaime and Bronn anytime over that trash .

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    45. urangutan21,

      Sebastiaan,

      LS is a shit character and a shit plotline,when will you purists not realise that and attacking things you don’t like in the show won’t bring her anytime sooner because your complaints are more useless than dog turd ?

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    46. Chump Force 1:
      Greg,

      I think “Lost” holds the record of unresolved loose ends …

      No, it’s gotta be the sopranos. They constantly introduced story lines that were forgotten by the next episode.

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    47. Darkstar:
      Tobias is outstanding as Black Jack Randall in Outlander.

      Agree..he is fucking awesome as both Randalls, actually. Great show, Outlander

      urangutan21:
      urangutan21,

      Sebastiaan,

      LS is a shit character and a shit plotline,when will you purists not realise that and attacking things you don’t like in the show won’t bring her anytime sooner because your complaints are more useless than dog turd ?

      Let him complain, what do you care? This is a forum where people can express their issues with the show. I think it’s your attitude to fellow commenters that is more useless than dog turd. Go get some manners

      I agree LS is a horrible character though, and many book readers agree with me. It’s not a book readers issue.

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    48. Loving Tobias in Outlander! Just finishing up the last of the books, and started watching the show at the same time… good stuff!! 🙂

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    49. ARGH seriously,

      they just toss these two awesome characters aside, and focus on shitty Dorne.

      ARGH.

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