Iain Glen tends to be more open about discussing future seasons than most actors in Game of Thrones. Perhaps he is careless, or maybe he’s just that good at avoiding HBO’s anti-spoiler sniper squad. In either case, our favorite Scottish actor has delivered again, with comments that, if true, should get us very excited about season eight!
Also: do you want to go with Nikolaj Coster-Waldau and the rest of the Game of Thrones cast to the season eight premiere next year? Because you totally can. For real.
As you can see in the video below (which is quite funny; watch it), Nikolaj Coster-Waldau is “teaming up with L’Oréal and the Movember Foundation” to give two lucky fans the opportunity to attend the final Game of Thrones premiere ever as his VIP guests:
For a chance to get flown out to Europe and be put up in a 4-star hotel, go to the red carpet premiere, and hang out with Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, click here! Any donation to the Movember Foundation through here will give you at least a chance, as you also support the charity, which raises funds for men’s health issues on a global scale.
Now, onto the headline that grabbed your attention: on the promotional tour for his new film Dusty & Me, Iain Glen talked to Express about the final season, which according to him has “the best six best scripts” in Game of Thrones history: “The final scripts are really special.” Just as we deduced during filming season here at Watchers, he claims we can expect lots of “monumental set pieces” with much of the cast “together for lots of it.”
The kicker, however, comes in his description of these last six episodes as written, regarding the time all the cast gathered to tearfully read through them for the first time: “We all sat down for the read-through of six feature-length episodes,” he says. “They took longer to film, cost more, and are more surprising. It was very emotional.”
This isn’t the first time someone involved with the production says these final episodes may be “feature-length”, and yet EW‘s inside sources on HBO claimed we shouldn’t “expect feature-length episodes throughout the season”, though “some episodes may be longer than usual.” That said, Glen’s claim comes much later in production, not only with the final scripts delivered but filming having wrapped too, so we may have to reconsider.
Though the Academy defines any film over 40 minutes as “feature-length”, which would apply to every Game of Thrones episode ever, a more typical and useful definition would establish the running time as somewhere between 90 and 120 minutes—indeed, during most of film history the average feature film has fit neatly within that range.
Though season seven had three fewer episodes than usual, the average episode was more than an hour long (six minutes longer than usual), with the longest running for about 80 minutes. Given that season eight will have even one fewer episode, we can likely expect this trend to continue, and that’s without even considering the season took almost twice as long to shoot despite having its episode number almost halved.
So, is it that crazy to expect some season eight episodes to break the 90 minute mark, with the average approaching the lowest run-time for a feature-length film? I think not!
This is where we’re supposed to go overboard and start expecting 5 hour episodes each with 12 hours of unreleased footage on the blue-ray!
Seriously though, if the last season has episodes that are mostly 90-120 minutes that would be like a double GoTgasm on Sundays. Can’t wait to find out, but for now I’ll temper my expectations and just assume they’ll be normal length episodes. I’d rather not get my hopes up for nothing.
Oh, and hodor.
I knew it! Each episode = 40 minutes of R+L=J, MF+FS (Ol’ Blue Eyes) =RF + NK, and the usual stuff, & 35 minutes of ASNAWP👸🏻. Thanks Iain!
Is it too early to assume the shortest episode this season will still clock in at over 70 minutes?
Yes, I’m afraid it is too early to asume that. Usually there’s a huge length disparity between the shortest and the longest episodes. The shortest being above 70 minutes seems like a stretch… though one can hope.
Mr Derp,
I think it’s hard just from reading a script to know what the final length will be, since alot depends on the editing. I really doubt there will be 2 hour episodes, but I can only hope for 80+ minutes. Last season, episode 4 was the shortest at 50 minutes, but it was also one of my favorites. It had the emotional scene of Jaime jousting the dragon through the flames. I think D&D will figure out 6 chapters for this season. Just like in a book, some chapters are shorter than others, but I’m hoping that the season premier is 80+ minutes. I’m hoping the last two episodes are epic and approach 90 minutes each. I think it all depends on the story D&D intend to unfold and where the story breaks make sense. I’ll take another “Spoils of War” episode at 50 minutes though if it’s as well done, and I’ll gladly watch another 30 minutes later about the making of the episode!! But I do wish for an 80+ minute episode for the premier.
I will be very surprised if any of the episodes break the 90 minute mark. The actor’s contracts leaked last year, and their definition of episode length was quite clear. At best maybe the finale. But surely HBO would rather opt to have more episodes.
Iain Glen also previously stated that the reason this season would take so long to shoot was because there would be only one filming unit, which was untrue. Source. So it’s difficult to gauge what Glen means by “feature length”
The longer each episode the better of course. The super short ones are disappointing. My repeated viewings on Sunday nights might fit together better if they’re well over an hour or closer to 90 minutes. There have always been some gaps between re-airing, even between multiple HBO channels. I’ve always watched every episode at least 2 1/2 times the night they air and occasionally more depending on how exciting it was. As it has been, I’ll watch it at 8:00 my time, then rewatch on HBO Go on my phone for about half an hour, then turn to the tv when it airs again on one of my HBO channels at 10, and sometimes the next airing. I also usually watch it again almost every night of the week until the next episode. Yeah, I’d call myself a rabid fan. Viewer friends sometimes ask me how I remember things about the show so well… Watching every episode about ten times during the season alone is ONE reason. Another is participating here hours of every day. 😛
Tron79,
Yea, it’s hard to really come away with any specific information from such a vague statement. As the article states, feature-length could be anything from 40 minutes to whatever.
On the bright side, at least Jack Bauer 24 can rest assured that the red carpet premiere will be happening.
I’d hate to be the guy who donates $5,000 for 50,000 entries just to end up losing out to someone who donates $10 for 100 entries.
That would be a shame, but at least the money goes to a good cause.
Clob,
I actually hate that GoT is on Sundays at 9pm. I’d prefer Friday night or Saturday night, but I’m sure plenty of people feel differently. I hate that the show ends at 10pm and then I have to immediately switch to “work mode” for the next Monday morning. I like to let the episode play out and linger a bit in my mind after the episode finishes, but it’s hard to do that when I’ve got to try to go to bed for work. Meh, first world problems. It could be a lot worse, but I’d prefer Friday or Saturday for GoT.
If the episodes are long (which I hope), I hope it’s because there’s a lot of character driven scene and that they take the time with that. And 90 minutes can feel very short, if I watch LotR 2 hours is easily over before I know it.
And if I remember correctly Daniel Portman stated last year (when defending a shorter episode count) that they could easily make it a 10 episode season with the content they have, but that 6 is better for the story. (going to search for that interview)
But for me I am more interested in the worlds of Nicolaj Coster Waldau. His statement about how good the scripts are really make me exciting. And not only because he states the scripts are good (as a sum) but that every single episode has an amazing script.
And what make me more interested is also the fact that last year, the actors promoted the season, but weren’t that excited about, the only actor I can remember was excited about it was Emilia, this year almost every actor is excited about it.
I only miss one actor, where are the interviews with Liam Cunningham, his interviews are always a delight to read.
Clob,
Ha. That sounds quite similar to my viewing habits during the season. It airs at 9pm here in my time though, so at 8pm (due the time difference), it’s off social media for the next two hours! 🙂 Then it airs at 11pm again. Then I show up tired as hell to work the next day, and it re-airs on Tuesdays at 9pm.
I’m absolutely hoping for longer episodes in season 8 just because I want as many character moments as humanly possible. Even though 7×04 was also my favourite episode last season, I wanted even more scenes from the Stark reunion. But then again, I’m greedy. 🙂
Maybe feature-length describes the length of time I spend staring at his features. Iain you handsome devil.
When we’ve gotten the unusually short episodes, especially that shortest one, I always find myself wondering if they cut a scene shorter or entirely. It would be nice if they could always move a scene up or down if it would fit so an episode isn’t so short. I can see how that’s not always best or possible though, especially with fewer separate story arcs happening in the later seasons.
Ha! You made me snort while I’m waiting for my new tires! 😂
Mr Derp,
You’re lucky it’s at 9 PM on sunday. In my country it’s at 3 AM monday morning. And I have to work after that.
3 AM is too late to stay awake and it’s too early to get up. But I do it anyway, I just can’t wait.
Yes, it makes it tough to wait another week so soon with the short episodes! It does seem that most episodes have some unrelated scenes to the main drama of the week, so I can see your point that they could edit a bit to make the short ones longer. My watching habits on Sunday nights are a bit obsessive. Even with the short ones I first watch it live, and then I watch again later that night on HBO-GO with headphones on a better TV that is free by that hour, and then I watch the behind the scenes clip on HBO-Go, and then I usually watch a podcast, so even with the 50 minute episodes, it takes awhile for me….. I get to sleep in most mondays though, so I’m luckier than alot of others on that part.
The screen actors guild keeps insisting it’s 80 minutes minimum, which makes little sense because there’s plenty of 60-80 minute movies out there.
Chilli,
That is dedication!
Tempering expectations…. But- 80 minute average per episode would be pretty awesome. That’s what I’m hoping for
Mr Derp,
Try living in Australia mate 11:30am on a Monday when you’re at work
Luckily they know I’m a GOT nutjob at work so they give me the time off to watch the episode in the meeting rooms or I rebel and don’t come in – lesson learned I suppose when you have a team of 20 wondering where the manager is Monday mornings
Mmhmm, I feel that. B-]
I’ve donated to all of the GoT Omazes so far, including the first one in February that was also for attending the premiere; sure would be incredible to win one of ’em, but at least the money goes to good causes anyway.
I would like to see interviews with some more of the actors!
Of course I hope every episode’s as long as possible (like, at LEAST 60-80 mins?!) Heck, I’d be thrilled to watch 12 hours in one shot if they made each one long-movie-length and just marathoned the thing. *w* And I’d hope that the finale (and maybe premiere) would be in the 90-120-minute range. Welp, fingers crossed on two fronts then. I usually watch new episodes with people who’re interested as they air, then go rewatch on my DVR to help gather my thoughts and reactions. x)
Sansa’s Knight,
Wow how lucky are you, I was once banned from speaking to a colleague about it so we had to hide in corners a la Varys and Littlefinger! In Britain it’s shown on Mondays at 2am and then 9pm. Obviously don’t wait til then so sky+ and watch before work, however this year to mark the occasion I shall be up at 2am, watch again before work and then watch again, with hubby, at 9pm.
Jay Targ,
there was only one northern Ireland unit.
Never once considered playing for the “other team”, but still, I can spend hours looking at him too. Mostly wishing, “why can’t I look like him and sound like him?”
What would be the point of making a 6 episode season, if they would add the same amount of screen time when aired anyways? Thats why i think that only the last two episodes will last longer than usual, not all of them.
PS Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
– J. Seinfeld
Does it, though?
Omaze has many online complaints on consumer websites. It’s a “for profit” corporation, not a charity, and takes 20% off the top of every dollar spent. Because of this, their own website admits your entries may not be tax deductible
–Omaze is a for-profit company. Officially, our competitions are ‘sweepstakes,’ and it’s important to note that there are varying legal interpretations on whether a contribution that also awards people consideration (chances of winning a grand prize) is deductible. If you choose to write off your donation, you can use the confirmation email we sent you at the time of purchase for documentation. —
Additionally, because it is a sweepstakes and not a charity raffle, by law they must allow free entries. This info is not readily available, so here is a link: https://www.omaze.com/digital-ame?exp=100756
Many of the complaints state that Omaze is very slow to provide winner information, or send out swag purchased as part of entries. MANY other complainants allege they were bombarded with spam after joining the site.
The prize sounds phenomenal but be aware of the pitfalls before you sign up. I wish HBO would partner directly with the charity and cut out the corporate middle-men.
Iain has done such a fantastic job with the character and making it his own so it probably seems weird for me to say that I still don’t think he fits the book part. Of course I wouldn’t trade him now though. Iain being who he is (and how D&D have written him) has changed my perspective of the character, his relationship/attachment with Daenerys and most of my thoughts and cares regarding his fate. Book!Jorah was described as a balding, hairy man, not handsome and roughly three times the age of teen Daenerys. His fawning over her was more gross to me in the books than simply an unhealthy obsession the show has portrayed. Although he’s still an accomplished fighter I think his extrapolated life story in the books is one of a more ‘sad sack’ man. It’s kind of hard for me to look at Iain’s Jorah and buy him as such a desperate sort of man. 😉
Longest episode will maybe be 90 minutes. Shortest around 50.
The point would be pacing, obviously. The pacing of a two hour film is very different from the pacing of six 20 minute episodes (usually comedies or animation), yet they make up the same runtime. But runtime isn’t everything. Pacing isn’t everything either, but it damn sure matters more than runtime divorced from context.
That said, I don’t believe the final six episodes will even come close to the usual length of a GoT season, which is about 9 hours and 15-to-30 minutes. But I’d bet we could easily get to somewhere between 7 and 8 hours, like we did last year with only seven episodes.
Could make a big difference budget-wise, where the several lead actors are paid per episode. Several million here, several million there – eventually, it adds up to real money. (with apologies to the late Sen. Dirksen)
Wow. It’s a good thing I work part time and don’t work Mondays and it’s an even better thing that my youngest child will start at a nursery on Mondays from January onwards while my bigger two are at school because I am so staying up all night till the episode airs at 2am my time and then spending the rest of the night chatting on here till morning. GOT all night and sleep all day! Responsible adult? Me?
LadyGoodman,
I don’t know much about them, but that’s interesting to hear. They could be a shady organization or maybe people just like to complain. In my experience, I would expect a little bit of both.
I’ll have to do some research when I have a chance because I was planning on donating. Thanks.
That’s how I feel about Rachel Weisz. 😍
Mr Derp,
I don’t get the sense they are shady in that they are stealing, or not eventually delivering on the prizes – but they are definitely less than forthcoming about the fact that they are not themselves a charity and are profiting from your donation. Even their disclaimer about tax deductible status of entries seems purposely vague.
After Omaze’s 20% cut and Movember’s slightly high 24% administrative cost, approximately 55% of your donation goes to fund the charitable programs, it appears.
It’s a fabulous prize for any GoT fan. I just wish more of the money collected was earmarked for the charity.
Mr Derp,
Yeah but it makes more interesting Mondays 🙂
Miguel,
I would agree if I wasn’t the only person in my office who watches Game of Thrones 🙂 I actually got my boss to start watching the show, but then she got fired and now I’m back to square one.
Thankfully, I have my wife and WOTW posters to discuss the show with. My wife was actually the one who turned me on to the show to begin with. She can rightfully claim that she started watching the show from season 1 episode 1. Unfortunately, I cannot. I started watching in season 2. In fact, the first episode I ever saw was “Valar Morghulis”, so that episode has a special meaning for me 🙂
Guess I should’ve expected that 100% of the donations weren’t going to the charities. They coordinate cool-prize campaigns to raise money for charitable organizations, but aren’t a charity themselves. Wasn’t even considering tax deductibility. So far I’ve entered many campaigns (winning none–please, please, please let this be my time!!), and haven’t received any spam.
And I about Carice van Houten. ♥‿♥
Bless you for that, ser! Personally, I find all the battle scenes repetitive and boring, the hack’n’slash, bludgeoning, gore, running around, stuff flying past, etc. The dragons bring in something different, at least. Otherwise, I literally fall asleep while watching.
I like the character-driven scenes, where people interact and we learn things about them. There are so many potential interactions that are being set up for the end season, and it would be great to see some of them actually occur, not to mention what might happen. That was about the only good thing about The Great Wight Hunt episode (other than the dragons and that burning bear). Will we get Arya & the Hound? Jaime and Tyrion, post Cersei? Sansa and Daenerys? Jon Snow and Aegon VI Targaryen? Even Tormund and Brienne? For that matter, Arya and undead Beric? Gendry the Swift?
It goes without saying that I value these character interactions a lot more than their eagerly-awaited “heroic deaths”.
Hey, at least you’ve got your priorities straight! That sounds like a responsible adult to me 🙂
Sansa’s Knight,
If you get to watch Game of Thrones at work then I don’t feel sorry for you one bit 😉
In all seriousness, I just want to know when the episodes will air so I can plan some days off on Mondays as far in advance as I can. I would have a hard time getting anything done at work the day after the series finale. I’d probably just be staring off into space thinking about the ending while some suit tries to jibber jabber to me in a meeting about god knows what.
Speaking of which, I would be very interested to see the drop-off in productivity on a global scale the Monday after the series finale. It’ll probably be the most requested day off from work of all time.
That’s how my preteen self felt about Diana Rigg when she was playing Emma Peel in ‘The Avengers.’ She was stunning and steely and cool and capable and took no crap from any man. Even my wedding dress fantasy was a white leather jumpsuit.
zandru,
Same here, but still the action in got (and LOTR) is the best action there is. For instance hardhome stays amazing. The horror and build up was perfect.
For me, it all depends on how the action is done. If it’s clear, concise, and easy to follow then I’m all in. I.E., the action sequences in “Atomic Blonde”. They were fantastic.
However, if we’re talking about Jason Bourne or Transformers type of herky-jerky effects where you can’t tell what’s going on then no thank you.
I’m totally with you there. That’s why the Blackwater still remains my favorite battle in the series, despite (or maybe because of) the low budget available at the time for fighting scenes. It was all the drama that was going on off the battlefield itself, with characters we know and care about, that made it engaging for me.
The spectacle of hundreds of anonymous people killing one another, on the other hand, makes my brain feel the need to distance myself, lest it burn out from overloaded empathy circuits trying to comprehend all that destruction and pain. I pull back, and I can understand your falling-asleep response (I’ve done that at overamplified rock concerts: just shutting down because it’s too much to take in).
I’m resigned to the prospect that the final season will be heavy on the noisy, hyperkinetic action scenes. I just hope that there is no episode that contains a continuous half-hour or more of nonstop battle, unleavened by any behind-the-scenes character interaction. Though I guess that would be a good time to go rummage for snacks.
Wow, very interesting that you single out Atomic Blonde as your example of action scenes well-executed. Part of my newspaper work is writing movie reviews. Here’s an excerpt of one from last year:
“For all its lack of gadgetry and explosives, Atomic Blonde is very definitely an action movie, and its fight sequences – of which there are many – are not for the faint of heart. If you’ve ever found yourself rolling your eyes at how neatly movie superspies usually dispatch their adversaries and then dust themselves off with barely a wince, you may find this one’s approach to hand-to-hand combat refreshingly…well, I won’t say realistic, but it does conform to the laws of physics and the vulnerabilities of human physiology more closely than the usual onscreen depiction. Agent Broughton’s battles take time to resolve.
“It turns out that first-time solo director David Leitch (he was uncredited co-director, with Chad Stahelski, on 2014’s much-praised actioner John Wick) put in a couple of decades as a stuntman and stunt coordinator before taking the helm here, and it shows. The fight choreography is splendidly messy and visceral; better yet, it doesn’t rely on slick, choppy editing to evoke a visual illusion of mayhem. This spy is one tough babe who pays a price for every pursuer she fells; Theron clearly had to train hard to execute these stunts. (If there are sequels, I hope they let her wear flats some of the time.)”
As you can see, I share your lack of patience with the kind of action scenes where the viewer comes out asking, “What the hell just happened? Who just died?” I think a lot of contemporary directors are lazy about fight choreography and rely too heavily on the editing room and CGI to raise audience adrenaline levels, sacrificing coherent narrative in the process. Such products are clearly good enough for many viewers who just want a rush, since these movies do sell tickets; but they annoy me no end. Hoping Sapochnik delivers better than that.
Firannion,
Great write-up! You should be writing reviews for Roger Ebert’s website.
I love that movie. I would never confuse it with an Oscar contender or anything like that, but it’s just such an enjoyable movie with good pacing and a mesmerizing lead actress. Charlize Theron should rule the Seven Kingdoms as far as I’m concerned.
The action scenes are VERY engaging and the music takes it over the top. I never would’ve thought that I’d see a fight scene set to George Michael’s “Father Figure”, but it works! There are so many action scenes in that movie set to music that I’d never expect would be paired up together. Nothing wheel-breaking, but very creative all the same.
Other great songs set to scenes in Atomic Blonde:
David Bowie – Cat People
Peter Schilling – Major Tom (The German version is so much better than the English version)
Health – Blue Monday
The Clash – London Calling
A Flock of Seagulls – I Ran
Thanks!
I led off the review by nominating Theron as a viable candidate for the next 007!
Imagine her and Gwendoline Christie on the same team. They’d be unstoppable.
1. I did not see Atomic Blonde but I remember it. I am sure it got some nominations and wins on the awards circuit. It may not have been Oscar worthy in all aspects. Note however that Oscar wins are not “the gold standard of quality”. A lot of dross wins Oscars and lots of gems get nothing.
2. I think the majority at least one episode will be spent/wasted on battle. Fighting will have a percentage of several others as well.
3. My favorite battle on GOT was Whispering Wood. They made excellent artistic and budgetary choices. Second best was the one in which Tyrion got knocked out and missed the entire thing – so did we. Blackwater and Spoils of War are next in line. Cersei was outstanding in Blackwater with the building of the tension. Of course, millions watch GOT and a good many love the confusion and yelling and darkness of battle. Others take the time to check email.
4. The longest episode? The Lannister kids are the best actors on the show. The longest episode should occur when they are still all alive. This will provide the powerhouse talent needed to support 1.5-2 hours of TV. If the story can include Varys, Hound, Melisandre and Davos then even better. I would despair to see the longest episode without a high percentage of these actors. Can you imagine a 1.5-2 hour episode without any of these actors? Maisie is solid, Kit has scenes in which he is great/solid, Gwen is solid….but I cannot see how you get 1.5-2 top notch hours of TV without at least some of – Peter, Lena , NCW, Carice, Rory, Liam, Iain. If all these guys are dead already, they should keep the episodes short.
A date with NCW? On the final GOT premiere?
SWOON!
Clob,
Yeah that perfectly describes my viewing habits as well, and I don’t do that for any other show besides GOT.
I saw Rachel Weisz in “The Shape of Things” (2003) a Neal LaBute movie. She was amazing as a faux ditzy art student. I had recorded “The Constant Gardener” on my DVR because you recommended it, but some of the reactions I read (e.g., “punch in the gut”) scared me off. I’m sure she was fabulous in that Oscar-winning role. I just have a limited capacity for sad endings and I suspect “The Constant Gardener” didn’t end with Ewoks singing and dancing in the forest.
I did enjoy her in her brief role with Hugh Grant in “About a Boy.” That’s the kind of lighthearted fare I look for.
Mr. Derp, Firannion:
Thanks for the references to Atomic Blonde, yet another movie starring Theron where the director knows how to integrate action sequences very tightly into a compelling story.
“The spectacle of hundreds of anonymous people killing one another, on the other hand,”
I’m hoping there won’t be too much of that in the final season. My guess is the Army of the Dead will roll over and assimilate, Borg-like, the inhabitants of several castles or towns as they romp down the coastline of the Narrow Sea. The humans will make a stand at Moat Cailin and lose, but this will be a Hardhome-style affair – not so much a battle as a slaughter. Just when all seems lost, the remaining humans will combine their talents against the Nights’ King and de-animate the Army of the Dead. *Poof*, the existential threat disappears.
That leaves Cersei to try to eliminate what remains of the Jon/Dany forces. Here is where we might see a major battle — again, more like a slaughter — as the defeated Northerners retreat back into their thawing wastes. Just when they seem about to surrender, Arya, wearing Jaime’s face, kills Cersei, thus ending that threat. The few survivors are left to re-build a Westeros of which they have no real experience.
Ten Bears,
You should see The Constant Gardener. For me one of the most beautiful movies ever. I don’t like sad movies either, but here I really enjoy the story, the acting, the music, …
So is the premiere here in Europe this time around? They must have some inclination of when that will be if they are running this promotion so I am wrong to deduce another teaser trailer and premiere date is not too far off now?
As for Iain’s comments I’d guess we’ll see 2-3 episodes over an hour this time around and that’s what he’s referring too. These will be the biggest battles and possibly the finale.
It’s 2am for me here in the UK (season 6 & 7 I have got up in the night to watch it) or regular slot is 9pm on a Monday but then you have to seriously dodge social media and other spoiler sources.
Next year we have booked our family vacation to the US in May so I run the risk of being out of country for the final few episodes (assuming it starts in April), not sure how I will deal with that just yet.
Haha Carole you have the exact same plan as I do, I assume you will also watch Thronecast straight after the 9pm showing in order to get the preview trailer for the following week?
I hadn’t thought about it from that angle, but it is absolutely true. Great points.
The privilege of having a home office I can attend to pretty much when I choose and the ability to be a nocturnal creature, as I prefer doing (*hoot*), is not to be taken for granted, particularly during GoT seasons.
I enjoy well-composed action/fight/battle sequences. Not quite as much as the character- and dialogue-driven ones, though. Probably my favorite action movie is Kill Bill (both volumes.) My younger brother often wants to fast-forward through the drawn-out battle scenes on re-watches because “we already know how it turns out” and they hold little repeat entertainment value for him.
Sad movies on the other hand…I usually have a peculiar fondness for, actually. I tend to find them kind of cathartic or something. But it just so happens GoT unwittingly lead me to find what is far and away the saddest film I think I could ever possibly see—one that destroyed me so that I don’t dare to think too much about it, lest I start tearing up and feeling that hollow ache again. I don’t cry easily but have never sobbed so uncontrollably at a movie…which I could recommend if someone wanted such a painful experience. (It’s one of Carice’s—English title being either “Love Life” or “A Woman Goes to the Doctor.”) Though it was removed from YouTube and I’m not sure how else I could’ve watched it, what with DVD player regions and all. But yeah, just…omg. ;; >,-,<
The Kill Bills were great!
I am not anti-action at all. Children of Men is one of my favourites – and it does have a bit of firepower unleashed.
I am not antiviolence (physical or mental) either – City of God is also another favourite with. Pulp Fiction, Reservoir Dogs, Naked.
Maybe I need to reassess why some battle scenes do not do it for me. Hmmm.
In a recent interview with ET, Peter Dinklage discussed his fate on Game of Thrones:
“There are no better writers in television than [showrunners] Dan Weiss and David Benioff. They ended it brilliantly. Better than I could have imagined and you people are in for it,” Dinklage said.
He added, “It ends beautifully for my character whether it be tragic or not.”
Not spoilery at all, but it’s nice to hear that he claims to be satisfied with his character’s ending.
When he starts by saying there are no better writers in TV than D&D……….I wonder if he downed a bottle of that new whisky GOT is peddling.
Surely he is right, I suppose his opinion is well-informed by his extensive experience in the industry and his view on Season 8. Right????
Mango,
Not sure what you’re trying to get across here. Are you claiming to have a more well-informed opinion on the matter than Peter Dinklage?
Nope…I specifically pointed out he does have an informed opinion.
I just hope that season 8 comes through for all of us. Right???
Based on the first part of your post I couldn’t tell if you were being sarcastic or not. Thanks for clarifying.
I was actually hoping it would be a dumpster fire and we’d all be terribly disappointed by the end 😉
Mr Derp,
Tyrion’s betrayal of Queen Daenerys is Foreshadowed…
In S1 E10 Fire and Blood – Pycelle is rambling to Ros about all the Kings he has served… Pycelle’s description of King Robert sounds like he is talking about Queen Daenerys…. “Robert Baratheon was an entirely different animal – powerful man, great warrior – but alas, winning a kingdom and ruling a kingdom are rather different things. They say that if a man goes through life with his battle visor down, he can often be blind to the enemies at his side”
The next scene in Season 1 E10 Fire and Blood foreshadows King Jofferys betrayal. Varys and Littlefinger are talking in the Throne Room @39:00 and in walks King Joffery… they both say “My King” and
Joffery walks past Varys and Littlefinger and says …
“My Lords. Shall we Begin”
In S7 E1 – Queen Daenerys walks through the Dragonstone Thrown room (does not sit on the Thrown) and enters her Strategy room with Tryion and they look at each other and the final image of the scene is a dark silhouette of Daenerys looking straight forward and a dark Tyrion silhouette off to her side when Daenerys says….
“Shall we Begin”
firstone,
A lot of people are assuming Tyrion will betray Dany. It’s been picking up steam in the off-season as most theories tend to do.
I’ve been back and forth on what I think will happen to a number of characters, but as of right now I’m not entirely convinced Tyrion will betray Dany. I do believe it’s very possible, but the evidence you present is not all that convincing to me. It sounds like you’re already a believer in the theory and you’re looking for reasons to be right, but who knows, you could be right when all is said and done. The show is going out of it’s way to at least build up tension for it.
I do wonder what Tyrion said to convince Cersei to get her to re-appear at the Dragonpit parlay though. Perhaps he is trying to protect Cersei’s unborn child or maybe even set it up to take over after Dany dies, since Tyrion currently does not believe that Dany can have a successor. If Tyrion DOES betray Dany, I think it’ll be somewhat unintentional.
Well, at least let it be better than Season 5 and the end of Lost.
I do not watch enough TV (time and poor organization of my time!) and so do not have very sophisticated opinions on the writing in GOT relative to other shows. Although, I did watch the Wire and Sopranos. These days I have been told to watch Americans and one or two other shows that I cannot remember right now. Peter’s statement first struck me as something you would hear at an industry party ….slightly promotional.
Then I thought, well he should know. (Peter is one of my favourites actors from his role in Station Agent. I started watching GOT because of him.). Then I thought, Geez, Season 8 had better be really really really good!
I do not know what to think about the betrayal issue. Dude already killed his Daddy…anything can happen.
Mango,
Like most people, I think D&D have done a great job, but I do think the writing for season 7 was a bit of a mess. Where I tend to differ from others though, is that I have faith in D&D to right the ship in season 8. It seems like so many people have given up on them and assume that the ending will be bad either way.
Mango,
Fair enough… there are a few other foreshadows too… one you might have already noticed is after Tyrion saw Jon knock on Queen Daenerys ship cabin door the ship is shown and the Targaryen flag is highlighted and the dragon almost fades to black. It will be good no matter what happens. Some of my predictions might still have a chance to happen 🙂
firstone,
Of course your predictions still have a chance to happen. How this will end is really anybody’s guess right now 🙂
Foreshadowing happens a lot in GoT, but sometimes it leads to nowhere, so you can’t take every piece of foreshadowing too literally. For example, in season 5 Jaime told Bronn that if he ever saw Tyrion again he’d kill him. When they met up again in season 7 did that happen? *Spoiler alert* No, they actually met up twice since then and are on generally good terms.
Foreshadowing is real on GoT, but I think we all need to be careful not to take every piece of foreshadowing too literally. This is just one reason why I’m not sold on Tyrion betraying Dany yet.
Mango,
Best Action Movie
Best Historical Fiction
Best Buddy Comedy
Best Romance
Best One-Liners
Best Speech
Best Redemption Arc
Best Unforced Plot Twist
Best Western
Best Guest Actors
Best Movie Ripped Off for Oscar-Winning Inferior Remake
Best Ensemble Cast
Second Best Book to Film Adaptation
Best Shootouts
Best Pre-Battle Parley
Best Plot Symmetry
Best Use of Elderly Actors
Best Use of Colloquialisms
Best Anti-Prejudice, Anti-War Film
Best Film Directed by Multi-Oscar Winning Director But Didn’t Earn Him an Oscar
Best Hero/Anti-Hero
…. and the movie is….
Re: Tyrion betrays Daenerys. I’ve re-thought Tyrion’s scenes with Cersei in which it seems she’s suckered him in. But remember! In the Dragonpit, Tyrion berates Jon Snow for not just lying to Cersei about bending the knee. This gives me hope that Tyrion has done exactly that – lied to his sister.
Plus, his concerned look when Jon went into Dany’s cabin is no doubt mostly simple jealousy. He’s never been able to do that to a woman himself, without a substantial down payment.
Dr Strangelove. Obviously.
The Outlaw Josey Wales
Ten Bears……I am laughing so hard that I cannot think. What did I do to deserve such a question?
Ok, let us all play with this until we get a consensus.
“Best use of the elderly” is a nice tip off, lol!
Mango,
I’m pretty sure I’m correct. I can find a way to answer all of those categories from/using Josey Wales. 🙂
….and your name.
Mr Derp,
In case of Tyrion, I wouldn’t even call this foreshadowing: he was straightforwardly shown to be conflicted, especially in ep 4, 5 and especially 7. For instance, when he met Podric near the Dragonpit, he said that he was “supporting the enemy”. Strange choise of words, considering that at that moment Dany already acted as an ally to Jon in whose camp Podric was. So, Tyrion’s inner conflict is a fact; it has already led him to wrong decisions and it may continue to.
However, I do agree that Tyrion’s “treason” would hardly be intended. I rather see him making a mistake trying to accomodate everyone than going against Dany on purpose. One of the possible scenarios which comes to mind is that Tyrion will try to cover Cersei’s treason. I imagine that, when/if Jaime comes to Winterfell he won’t tell everyone about Cersei’s plans to bring in the Golden Company etc. He will tell Tyrion and ask him to help to solve this problem somehow, cause Dany is impuslive and she may burn the Red Keep, if she learns that Cersei is planning to backstab them. Trion will try to outmaneuver Cersei to protech her and her unborn baby from herself, but he may fail. And then if Dany and/or the Stark learn that he knew Cersei’s plans, they may take in as treason.
Yeah…Clob, I think you are right.
Let me correct that…Clob, I think that Josey Wales is what Ten Bears is asking for us to respond.
However, I would not give Josey Wales ALL the prizes that he has listed.
I am careful about the entire Western Genre of movies – many were unfortunate in several respects. Some were Ok though.
And since Clint pulled that empty chair gimmick, I have no time for him and his schtick. He can go suck salt through a wooden spoon.
Mr Derp,
I think D&D are very clever brilliant writers and their foreshadowing is much more hidden and subtle than Jamie saying he is going to slice Tyrion in half…. and there is tons of foreshadowing. Especially for Sansa and the Hound getting married..
Watch the scene in season 5 when Bronn is walking with his bride to be Lolly Stokeworth. Lolly is telling Bronn how mean her sister is and Bronn says people like your sister always seem to get what they deserve, sooner or later…. a second later “Hey that’s Jamie Lannister” That foreshadows that Jamie’s sister Cersei will get what she deserves sooner of later.
Watch the scene when Bronn and Jamie wake up on the beach in Dorne… Bronn throws a knife at a snake right by Jamie’s face…. that scene has tons of foreshadowing in it.
Mango,
Sorry about the Postus Interruptus.
Yes, Clob is right. It’s Clint Eastwood’s “The Outlaw Josey Wales” (1976).
His movie sixteen years later, “Unforgiven”(1992), which won the Oscars for Best Picture and Best Director, was a derivative ripoff of “The Outlaw Josey Wales”, and nowhere near as good. “Unforgiven” had some big name stars in it, like Gene Hackman, Morgan Freeman, Richard Harris and Frances Fisher, but it sucked compared to Josey Wales. (The only good character actor performance was by Saul Rubinek, who played the pulp writer.)
I’ve noticed (likely unintended) parallels between The Outlaw Josey Wales and GoT, especially Jon Snow & NW and the Wildlings: sworn enemies caught up in a cycle of mutual retribution and retaliation. There’s even a scene in “Josey Wales” that’s virtually beat-for-beat the same as Jon’s solo mission to Mance Rayder’s camp in S4e10.
Fun Fact: Clint Eastwood fell in love with his co-star Sondra Locke on-set, just like our favorite Stark “bastard” and his kissed-by-fire co-star/new bride.
Lol! Ten Bears is a character in JoseyWales, no? You really like that movie.
Once Clob offered Josey Wales, it clicked – that was the clear correct answer. I did not think of it immediately myself. Good job, Clob!
But as I have no time for Clint these days, I would refuse to give him any more recognition for anything – even for Josey Wales. So I would love if we found another movie that could match your list that was NOT a Clint Eastwood.
Mr Derp,
When people talk about the writing, I always assume they actually mean the plotting, because the dialogues are as good as they’ve ever been, if you ask me.
D&D get a lot of flack for the ‘writing’ and some people seem to believe GRRM is the king of great dialogue, but I’d honestly call them even. Admittedly, some lines in the show are a bit on the nose, but comparatively I found the prose in the novels to be decent, not great. Let alone amazing.
Despite this it’s still one of the best written shows ever made, I think.
firstone,
Well, you can’t know it’s foreshadowing until we see what actually happens.
But surely not to each other? There may have been a faint spark in the books (opinions differ), but B&W stripped out nearly all those plotlines. The Hound talks about Brienne and Arya more than Sansa. And I don’t think Sansa “likes” men any more.
Mango,
I wasn’t thrilled with Clint Eastwood’s empty chair stunt, or his “Get off my lawn!” attitude as he’s aged. He wasn’t like that forty years ago when he made “The Outlaw Josey Wales.”
Then again, times have changed too. I haven’t seen any indication he’s enamored with the current incarnation of the Red Team he once supported.
(I’m just hiding under my covers until 2020 when President Beto tries to clean up the mess left by the current sh*tshow.)
firstone,
The big problem I have with Sansa + Sandor hookup is that the show conspicuously omitted such foreshadowing in the S6e2 chat between Brienne & Sansa.
Brienne was telling Sansa about encountering Arya with “a man”, but inexplicably did not identify the “man” as The Hound – and then moved on to discussing Arya’s fashion choices:
Brienne: “I saw her with a man. I don’t think he hurt her. She didn’t want to leave him, he didn’t want to leave her.”
Sansa: “You don’t know which way she went?”
Brienne: “I spent three days looking for her. She disappeared.”
Sansa: “How’d she look?”
Brienne: “She looked good. She wasn’t exactly dressed like a lady.”
Sansa: “No, she wouldn’t be.”
Considering Sansa’s shared history with Sandor, and his gallantry in rescuing her from gang rape and murder, that S6e2 chat would’ve been the perfect time for a callback to the Hound. (Brienne knew who he was. Pod told her as soon as Sandor walked up to them in S4e10).
Sansa has not mentioned him at all. Even in early S7 in WF when Spittleflinger was watching Brienne spar with Pod and told Sansa Brienne was impressive and he’d heard she “beat the Hound in single combat”, there was no reaction from Sansa – either in words or facial expression.
By contrast…
(to be cont)
firstone,
…. By contrast, the show went out of its way to include conspicuous callbacks to Arya’s unresolved emotions about Sandor in S5 (Jaqen calling her out for lying to herself when she insisted she hated Sandor and wanted him to suffer) and S6 (Arya admitting to the Waif she’d taken Sandor off her list because she didn’t want him dead anymore; she’d been confused.)
Having said all that, I concur with one of the posts above that I’d be tickled if Sandor saunters into WF – and both Stark sisters run over and hug him and start sobbing.
And then I will start sobbing too. 😢
I’m not quite sure what genre you prefer. Undoubtedly, if you’ve seen Charlize Theron in “Atomic Blond” then you’ve probably seen her in “Mad Max: Fury Road.” Based on the Tarantino movies you mentioned you liked, I’ll withhold recommendations of rom-coms. Here’s one in my All-Time Top Ten you may like if you haven’t seen it already:
“Freeway” (1997) starring a young Reese Witherspoon. I can’t say she was undeserving of her Oscar for “Walk the Line.” I can say that I thought she deserved one for “Freeway.”
Shelle: GoT unwittingly lead me to find what is far and away the saddest film I think I could ever possibly see…
Just hit me for some reason that there was still another English title for that movie (“Stricken”); man, it messed me up so bad I could hardly remember what it was called…! _-_
I’m not sold on the Arya-as-Jaime-kills-Cersei twist at all. But if it happens, the visual needs to focus on her pulling a young girl’s hand out of the man-sized golden one, in order to fulfill the prophesized strangulation by a younger sibling. Yes, I know the show never got to the Valonqar part, but it’s pretty important in the books.
I disagree strongly. Tyrion’s material has been particularly weak the past few seasons, and he used to get all the best quips. Even Peter seems to be aware of it: He looked and sounded disgusted the last couple of times that his name was announced as the Emmy-winner. It’s got to rankle that they passed him over for his character’s best seasons (especially 4) but now keep giving him awards when he has such scanty material to work with. Makes it seem like a popularity contest, which isn’t fair to his genuine talent.
Lots of characters have been given cringeworthy dialogue since they went off-book. The Sand Snakes and Euron immediately leap to mind. Most of the interactions between Arya and Sansa in S7 were muddily written. There are so many examples where the dialogue disappoints.
Firannion,
But the prophecy distinctively uses masculine pronouns (eg “his” hands). That’d rule out Arya. Also, I thought the Valonqar means “little brother”, not any younger sibling.
Besides, I would not be thrilled with yet another Arya face-peeling-related murder. That “hung gun” has already been fired three times. Doing it again would be tedious.
Firannion,
I couldn’t agree more.
I imagine Peter feels particularly embarrassed that he’s being given these awards while the likes of Nikolaj and Lena have been overlooked despite doing sterling work with far meatier material.
Think of all the fabulous scenes that Lena and Nikolaj have been involved in over the past few seasons, while Peter’s been delivering endless lame cock jokes and hollow, repetitive tripe about “building a better world”.
That’s not to say Peter’s been doing anything wrong or that Tyrion’s storylines have been completely devoid of merit. But compared to the rest of the main characters, both the character and the actor have been sold short.
The dialogue has unquestionably taken a turn for the worse. “Bad poosy” aside, I thought Season 5 was still pretty strong. Season 6 was still relatively decent, despite the increasing tendency towards “cock” jokes and random profanity. But Season 7 had some painfully cringeworthy and amateurish dialogue.
Since you mentioned the Arya/Sansa scenes, I know everybody loves Maisie here… I do too… but Arya’s lines when she was challenging Sansa were just awful and Maisie’s delivery was terribly robotic and amateurish. The dialogue and production was so unkind to her talents. Things like the reference to “little Lyanna Mormont” were particularly grating.
I really don’t expect things to get better in Season 8. The quality of the writing is on a downward trajectory while the spectacle is on the rise. I expect Season 8 to be spectacular, but for the plot and dialogue to be groan-inducing.
That is a contentious question. Last I heard, the jury was still out re: what words in High Valyrian are gendered and which aren’t. We have it on Maester Aemon’s authority that ‘the Prince that was promised’ is also translatable as ‘Princess.’ And we know that dragons morph gender in a lifetime. I don’t think GRRM wants us to know much more than that as yet. There’s still some basis to speculate that Valonqar is a gender-neutral noun. (I haven’t read all of ‘A World of Ice and Fire,’ so correct me if I’m wrong about this, fellow Watchers.) And Maggy the Frog may, arguably, have used masculine pronouns because she was ‘seeing’ a male assailant in her vision, before the unmasking.
I also wouldn’t be too surprised if the author included a ‘gender surprise’ scene as a sort of homage to Eowyn being the ‘no man’ capable of killing the Witch-King of Angmar/High Nazgûl. He’s already foreshadowed it in the story of the Knight of the Laughing Tree, who is widely surmised by alert readers to have been Lyanna.
Like you, however, I’d prefer it not be Arya. I want to see her move on from her assassin identity ASAP.
If any Stark sister is going to have a hand in Cersei’s death it would be Sansa, IMO. Not that I think Sansa will literally kill Cersei, but those two have not seen the last of each other.
Though, I still believe that Jaime and Cersei’s deaths will be tied together.
Ten Bears – thanks for the film suggestion. I have added it to my list.
I love movies and love watching them at the cinema with the anonymous public. I am not much of a TV person though. I would say 30 films are in my list of my favorite 10. I love Cinema Paradisio, Best of Youth, Breaking the Waves, Waking Life, Swept Away, Incredibles, In the Mood for Love, Hero, 12 Angry men, A Man for all Seasons, I am not your negro, Trainspotting, Sexy Beast, There Will be Blood….it goes on. I loved Roger Ebert’s work (he was great writer as well as critic) and somehow, our tastes were similar. I needed a movie for a talk I was giving – and wrote to Roger asking him for a recommendation. He suggested a great movie – I was shocked that he wrote back to me. Sad when he died.
Genre love- everything except horror and teenager stuff. I do not watch movies with monsters but somehow I watch GOT. The NK and ice monsters are not too scary to look at. They are rather nice for monsters. I cannot watch Shape of Water because the fish guy looks too slimy.
Jaime will not die. Do not believe malicious rumours.
Mango,
I always relied on Roger Ebert to find and recommend hidden gems, even when stuffy Siskel disagreed. Ebert is why I searched out and watched some of my all-time favorite movies, including:
• (The) Zero Effect
• Hear My Song*
• Freeway
• The Cutting Edge*
• Hard Candy (w/ Ellen Page)
• The Last Seduction
• Before Sunrise
…and even a fluffy guilty pleasure movie like “A Walk to Remember”
* GoT connections: “Hear My Song” co-starred Tara Fitzgerald (Selyse Baratheon) in her first film. “The Cutting Edge” co-starred Roy Dotrice, ASOIAF audiobooks narrator and Pyromancer Hallyne in S2 of the show.
Firannion,
The show’s always had some wonky dialogue here and there, all the way from “That’s Jaime Lannister. He’s the queen’s brother.” in the very first episode. While I agree that Tyrion has taken a bit of a backseat since season 6, I can’t agree with his dialogue being badly written by any stretch of my imagination.
Of course, I think there is a difference between bad writing and a viewer not liking certain exchanges because they don’t gel with their expectations, especially as people tend to become more critical the longer a show’s been on.
I also don’t think the ‘cock jokes’ are bad writing any more than the sexposition from the early days, or have you forgotten that the VERY FIRST TIME we see Tyrion he was coming in a prostitute’s mouth.
Ten Bears, thanks, my viewing list is now a bit longer. Of the list, I only know Before Sunrise and its successors. I have had a torrid year…but now I have a bit of time, yeah!
I am heading over to the other stories..this has gone below the page.
I worked my way through the High Valyrian course on the Duolingo language-teaching app, and I do think it translated “valonquar” as “younger brother” specifically.
Betrayal to me is the wrong word. I can see Tyrion turning against Dany in favour of Jon, the is noticeable set up for this in S7, I also could imagine Tyrion turning if Dany threatens to burn Cersei alive given she is pregnant but out right betrayal in the sense of conspiring against her I just don’t see that at all. Tyrion will make his opinion clear and he no reason to support Cersei other than a sense of seeing her life spared due to the unborn child. I far rather suspect he will switch to team Jon.
How about the clunky way the lyrical scene of Tyrion bonding with the dragons ended, by him having to say to Varys something like, ‘If I ever do that again, punch me in the face’? I don’t require characters in medieval settings to go around saying thee and thou, but that line sounded so tonally anachronistic that it took me right out of what had been, up to that point, a beautiful scene. That was bad writing.
And the cock jokes are just lazy, sophomoric hack attempts to get a cheap laugh by appealing to the lowest common denominator of viewer. I hated the way they introduced Tyrion in S1, and was very relieved when they listened to the audience criticism and stopped doing ‘sexposition’ scenes. The one with Littlefinger auditioning Ros is the most cringeworthy scene in the whole series.
This seems very sensible to me. They’re not going to turn Tyrion into an unsympathetic character this close to the end. But he may feel ethically compelled to get off the Fire & Blood train, depending on Dany’s actions.
I’m inclined to think that him wanting to spare Cersei and/or her offspring will have little to do with it, though. We haven’t seen him doing much handwringing over his niece and nephews’ deaths, even though Myrcella’s was partially his fault for sending her to Dorne in the first place. I don’t see Tyrion as fretting much about the Lannister dynasty coming to an end. Even if he and Sansa should both survive, somehow be reconciled and decide to give marriage another try (if Sansa isn’t done with husbands, period), I think he’d take some persuading to want an heir. He knows his family is horrible more often than not.
Firannion,
I would tend to agree. I could certainly use less cock jokes next season, and some of their “jokes” lately have been low-hanging fruit. D&D are certainly capable of writing some very witty and creative dialogue though. For example:
Sandor: “Of course you named your sword.”
Arya: “Lots of people name their swords.”
Sandor: “Lots of cunts.”
That’s a genuinely funny comedic moment that isn’t derivative or banal, and speaks to Sandor’s character while illustrating their odd-couple relationship.
Firannion,
Well then you must surely agree there was also plenty of what you call bad writing during the first few seasons. I mean, I can think of a dozen more examples of questionable writing from seasons 1-4 if you’d like.
While I understand the example you gave me about ‘modern language’ in the show, this means that any time the show uses modern words or expressions it would be bad writing. All of the curse words used in the show are modern ones. So every time someone says fuck or cunt, it’s VERY anachronistic. (And it’s not real medieval history either, so I’m not sure authenticity is even required at all)
I still don’t think the writing has gotten either better or worse.
Enharmony1625,
And yet, it’s primarily the word cunt that makes it funny. Any other similar word wouldn’t have had even nearly the same effect, so I don’t see how, for instance, the Hound and Tormund’s dick/cock exchange is bad writing compared to your example.
No one will ever convince me that season 7 is badly written. Have you even seen dragon and the wolf? For every shoddy exchange in seasons 5-7 I’ll give you a shoddy exchange in seasons 1-4, and for every example of great writing from 1-4, I’ll give you an example of great writing from 5-7. Easily.
I totally agree with that.
And also that; I think rose-colored glasses are often worn when looking back at the first four seasons.
I’m fine with cock jokes and other vulgarity, as well as the nudity/sex, as long as it feels like what the characters are really doing/saying rather than the writers’ hands inserting extra stuff just because they’re obsessed with it. Of course the nudity–especially gratuitously–has decreased, but winter IS finally here, after all…and they no longer need it to grab people’s attention. ;p
I easily forgave the somewhat “modern-sassy” sound of the “punch me in the face” line because it was such a funny way of lightening the mood. He didn’t use a slang phrase that wasn’t in use in “Medieval” times; he simply requested a sock in the nose the next time he came up with such a nutso idea. xD
Not true at all. Chaucer himself uses ‘cunt’ (in The Miller’s Tale) – only in Middle English it’s pronounced/spelled ‘queynt.’ ‘Fuck’ apparently came into popular use a bit later; the first extant written citations occur circa 1500. ‘Swive’ was the more popular medieval verb for having sex, apparently. Nobody expects anyone to talk about swiving on GoT.
King in the North East,
You’re probably right in that “c*nt” is part of what makes it funny, but to me there’s another layer to it that makes it feel more genuine and natural than his later exchange with Tormund in season 7.
Also, I don’t think the writing in season 7 is nearly a bad as some make it out to be. There are a few rough spots, but there are plenty of great scenes and moments throughout the season.
Enharmony1625,
Could be because naming swords was pretty well established in the show, and the hound’s disapproval was perfectly in character as well as surprising because it subverted a trope.
That might be the layer you’re referring too.
I agree that the other joke doesn’t share the same set up, but I still think it’s true to both the Hound and Tormund as well as being well written and executed. (What else were these two characters going to talk about…)
Maybe I should have compared it to the “We’ll just have to make do with what we have” joke in the same episode, which did benefit from a better set up.
That line works largely because it reinforces Sandor’s endearing personality trait of having no patience for aristocratic pretensions of any kind. It’s a level on which he and Arya really are philosophically akin.
His exchange with Tormund, by contrast, makes it sound like he’s making fun of the Free Folk for being hillbillies, which doesn’t really jibe with what we know of Sandor’s populist tendencies. Consequently, to me at least, it feels like an arbitrary attempt by the writers to cram in as many gratuitous references as possible to male gonads – again, pitching to the lowest-common-denominator viewer who thinks any dick joke, however lame, is funny by default. It’s humor for nine-year-olds who get a big thrill out of saying something “transgressive.”
Firannion,
Well, your very specific ideas of the hound’s psychology doesn’t leave much wiggle room, so I can see why you would think something’s out of character more quickly then me.
I think the hound could be annoyed by people who name their swords because he sees them as killing implements or even because of his disdain for people in general. After all, we’ve seen more than enough examples of the Hound being a prick to regular people too, not just aristocrats.
Firannion,
Also, it’s pretty insulting to assume that anyone who found the exchange funny is nine or immature.
Not to your liking, fine! Just don’t go around proclaiming to people that your sense of humor is the correct one. That’s pretty low.
It also doesn’t make sense to assume there can be no funny dick jokes. I don’t really think they’re that funny either, broadly speaking, but I’ve still encountered some that cracked me up.
Dick-talk, dick-jokes – that’s part of men’s chitchat, when no woman is around (from 9 to 99)
;o)
Nooooo – not all of course!
—> up and away —>
I don’t mind a raunchy joke as long as it’s funny. I don’t mind off-color language if it fits the character and the situation. However, I agree that at times the “cock” jokes “are lazy, sophomoric hack attempts to get a cheap laugh.”
In fact, lately they’re not even jokes anymore.
I almost get the impression that some scriptwriter thinks inserting the word “cock” in a line of dialogue automatically makes it funny or witty. It doesn’t.
For example, Bronn used to be one of my favorite characters because of his rapport with Tyrion, his tell-it-like-it-is honesty, and the way his casual language masked his extensive military knowledge and experience.
But recently his dialogue hasn’t been witty or charming. In particular, this exchange between Bronn and Jaime at the beginning of S7e7 made me cringe. It was not funny. Every line just contained the word “cock.” The “punchline” wasn’t insightful. Jaime’s concluding observation made no sense:
(S7e7, Bronn and Jaime watching formations of Unsullied)
Bronn: “Men without cocks. You wouldn’t find me fighting in an army if I had no cock. What’s left to fight for?”
Jaime: “Gold?”
Bronn. “I spent my life around soldiers. What do you think they spend that gold on?”
Jaime. “Family.”
Bronn: “Not without a cock, you don’t.”
Jaime: “Maybe it really is all cocks in the end.”
Bronn: “Yet, your brother has chosen to side with the cockless.”
Jaime: “Yes, he’s always been a champion of the downtrodden.”
————-
Now, there are other occasions when “c*nt” is appropriate, eg when used to describe a mean, nasty person instead of a foul slang word for part of the female anatomy.
That’s why I got a chuckle when the Waif first came into Arya’s room and started in with the “Who are you?” Game of Faces. When Arya answered “No one”, she wasn’t expecting the Waif to whack her hard with a stick, and Arya cried out “Ow! C*nt!” To me, that was Arya instinctively resorting to the Hound’s insult vocabulary she’d picked up during her travels with him. (Ths follow-up between Arya and the Waif was just as good. Q: “Who are you?” A: “You’re about to find out” – as she uncovered Needle.)
Big difference between Bronn’s unfunny repetition of “cock” and “cockless”, and Arya’s one-time, spontaneous use of “c*nt!”)
Well, that was my two cents.
Ten Bears,
We are totally on the same page here. I never said nor meant to imply that cock jokes are inherently unfunny. Raunchy humor can be delightful – more so, for me, if the delivery is sly and oblique rather than whack-you-over-the-head obvious. Even Tyrion’s excruciatingly graphic ‘confession’ at the Eyrie is funny. We can imagine an exasperated Tyrion going off on such a rant. And even though the ‘cock merchant’ episode was a pretty lame idea, ‘Guess again’ was a pretty good comeback, if not a classic Tyrion quip. And Sandor’s profanity is completely in character.
But these last few seasons, there has just been too much reliance on ‘Nothing much happening here, let’s throw in some guys talking about their appendages or lack thereof.’ To me it’s a gimmick, and screentime wasted.
I laughed at the “maybe it is all cocks” exchange…it felt very Bronn & Jaime. Although I suppose I could understand wishing that some guys didn’t enjoy talking about those so much. xD