Game of Thrones showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss together with the actors Kit Harington (Jon Snow) and John Bradley (Sam Tarly) were recently guests at Oxford Union (a famous debating society, previously hosting Jack Gleeson (Joffrey) as well). You can watch the full video of the panel below.
Some of the questions they get may be of the oft-repeated kind, but the whole thing is well worth the watch for the wit and humour John Bradley brings to the table, and some inadvertent ambiguities Kit Harington manages to blurt out.
The more informative, topical bits are first those where D&D touch on catching up with the source material (starting at the 34 min mark):
Luckily, we’ve been talking about this with George for a long time, ever since we saw this could happen, and we know where things are heading. We’ll eventually, basically, meet up at pretty much the same place where George is going. There might be a few deviations along the route, but we’re heading towards the same destination. I kind of wish that there were some things we didn’t have to spoil (for the books), but we’re kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place/…/ I think the thing that’s kind of fun for George is the idea that he can still have surprises for people even once they’ve watched the show through to the conclusion. There are certain things that are going to happen in the books that are different in the show, and I think people who love the show and want to know more about the characters, want to know more about the different characters who might not have made the cut for the show —will be able to turn to the books.
Second, they once more talk about death of characters, and about one from the coming season (around 1 hour 13 minutes in). Usually the actors take it well when they are informed, usually by a phone call before they receive the script, but this year the actor in question did not think their character’s death was a good idea and even wrote a long letter explaining why that is. In Benioff’s words that “made them want to kill that [character] that much more.” John Bradley was quick to note: “Thursday, I got a text from David, saying ‘Is this still your number?'”. I somehow do not think he is really in danger just yet.
I like when D&D do a good job and I enjoy the show.But no Darkstar in the show?Why?
Excellent piece by Margaret Atwood on appeal of GoT:
Since it was in the news lately I do wish someone in the audience had of asked about HBOs execs musings about an extended run of the show or a movie.
Ser Gerold Dayne,
Because hes a very minor and unnecessary character whose presence is not needed and would be boring and lost on the show
Not sure if we knew this, but George will be at the U.S. Premiere!
Ser Gerold Dayne,
why don’t u start a book purist fundraiser for more money and episodes
I was a bit confused by their response to the question about the “sept rape” scene between Jaime and Cersei. The actors and the director have said it wasn’t rape, or at least that the intention of the scene wasn’t rape — but their response to the question (around the 50:00 mark) certainly indicated that Benioff and Weiss viewed it as such.
Indeed, given that he appears in all of about 10 pages in Crows, having him on for more than a minute would over-represent how important Darkstar is to the story! Moreover, given that the protagonist for whom Darkstar is important is cut completely, Darkstar becomes even less important to the overarching story and plots.
Isn’t that all we really want out of Barristan?
Hmm, didn’t some people think that Harrington’s new haircut a few months back was an accidental spoiler? Whoops…
But he was clearing his schedual! :'(
Lol, thankfully the flight from NM to SanFran isn’t that long.. Please take this with a pinch of salt and sarcasm..
As for the pannel, why did they choose to bring the two brothers from the Wall? Couldn’t they bring Natalie Dormer because.. I’d rather watch 1h of her, because she’s witty as heck.
Ser Gerold Dayne,
I’d love to see some Dayne’s…any Dayne, too. Unfortunately, they are probably characters for which there isn’t really time in the show, and we’ll just have to enjoy them when we’re lucky enough to get one of them in book-world.
FYI, I found that interview from a Reddit link to WiC (I never go there directly these days). Not sure if it previously was posted here, but the interview can be found at http://csatimes.co.in/dojma/295/ian-mcelhinney-barristan-selmy/ .
Sometimes I don’t think purists realise the stupidity of what they are saying.
Westeros.org did a first ipressions article on the premiere (which they were lucky enough to be invited to). In an otherwise fair report, they said the following:
“(neither he (Weiss) nor David Benioff was in attendance, claiming too much work finishing up season 5)”
The bold is me, and I find it pretty insulting, and rude. So many fans would have loved to be there. These two people were, but couldn’t help making back-handed remarks like this. I don’t mind people making criticismss, but I feel remarks like this are disrespectful, and they regularly do it. But as they (indirectly) profit from the show they will continue on like this, and will watch the show. I just wish their places at events like this were given to people who would be grateful for them, and not those who act like jealous children. Moreover, if they really dislike the show so much they can refuse; no one is making them go.
Ser Oromis Locke,
Do we know when this event occurred? Might just have been around the time that Night’s Watch scenes were being filmed in Belfast.
That’s awesome to hear – do you have a link to the whole interview?
Cover any spoilery stuff, people! Thank you.
D&D stated in the “Inside the Episode” commentary that Jaime “forced himself” on Cersei so they’ve always been pretty consistent in what they think happened in the scene. They’re the writers and creators so that should probably be the final word.
You have multiple interpretations from the directors and actors but that’s more about how Cersei responds as the scene continues which shouldn’t really be relevant to the question of “did he rape her?” (although this seems to be extremely important for some people). Jaime forces himself on her and that’s undeniable.
Something interesting in Ian McElhinney’s interview:
This seems to indicate he’ll be a part of the show’s future, right?
In that case, I only wish for some more fall-out in their subsequent scenes.
I included the link in another post downthread.
In the youtube comments, someone mentioned that this panel took place late last year. It would explain why Kit’s hair looks longer than it did at the season 5 premier.
Hear Marko Roar,
What’s this comment in reference to?
I believe he was just joking. The crowd was already laughing at how Kit phrased it, “I’d like to be inside a wolf”, and Weis followed with the quip about season 6.
And that’s true in the book as well, IMO.
It’s just not as obvious because we are so embedded in Jaime’s head, but the script for the first half of the scene (“no, not here, someone will see” “I don’t care”) is really not that different between the two mediums.
Hear Marko Roar,
Apologies. I’m usually better than that.
Makes sense, thanks.
John Bradley-West is perfect for these kinds of panels. We really lucked out with some of these actors that came straight from drama school.
And I’m really glad the moderators nipped the hug requests in the bud. I was at a taping of the Daily Show with Jon Stewart earlier this month and we were specifically told not to ask for selfies, hugs, and other weird stuff. It’s like some folks lose their minds in front of celebrities and forget all their manners.
Being King and Queen Turd of Shit Mountain carries certain obligations. Any suggestion that their appearance is unseemly attention-grubbing is an insult to their fanny crown.
I guess they do plan on spoiling the books. I’ve always thought that when it came down to it they wouldn’t spoil GRRMs story especially the ending. I figured because the story is so big and complicated and needs to be significantly altered and edited for TV that the finale season or two would be mostly originally material from D&D loosely inspired by some of GRRMs future plotlines.
Their attention was wandering? Ok. Whatever. I know what you mean about wishing people who would give their eye-teeth for the opportunity to attend something like that could go in their stead, since it is well-known they are not particularly fond of the show. I do think, though, it’s a good thing Elio wrote that, as he tends to be more…measured in how he expresses his feelings about the show.
They’ve always been pretty clear that they’re telling the exact same story but just might take some slightly different paths to get there. They wouldn’t be having constant meetings with Martin to get detailed future information unless they planned on adhering to his vision.
That was the most pretentious piece that didn’t actually say anything I’ver read in a good long while.
Noticed David Benioff flagged that the NY Times had given unfavorable reviews to the first 4 seasons of GoT . Tho the last three has some qualifications after the first a knee jerk one.
Have to wonder if there will be a different reviewer this year?
nothing good ever comes out of reading anything Elio or Linda write.
They are lucky that their favorite novel has been turned into the most successful and critically acclaimed TV show of the moment, but instead they act entitled and jealous and absolutely unreasonable in their expectations
Just not a fan of this particular book-to-screen departure.
I think their explanation on the panel was thoughtful and illustrated where they were coming from. I think it’s the most fans could ask for, whether you like what happened in the scene or you didn’t.
Agreed, I got halfway through and stopped. She’s stringing sentences together, in some wannabe poetic fashion, while not making any clear points (to me at least).
This is kind of a random theory about how tgey’re going to adapt the books, so please forgive it being a bit OT.
Not sure how likely this is, or if even if I like it very much, it just came to me recently.
I think the letter writing death is
I didn’t say it wasn’t thoughtful.
But it’s a huge departure from the book character, and IMO (which isn’t worth much, granted) a mistake for the show character arc as well. Not to mention, it’s not what the principal actors are saying about the scene. It seems to me that one hand does not always know what the other is doing.
Not trying to be disrespectful. Just my .02.
When someone being disgruntled about dying earlier than they expected first came up, a poster here mentioned they thought it sounded like something
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Only old people write letters nowadays. There’s your first clue. A younger actor would send them a text or email.
It’s Barristan everyone. Every single sign points to it.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
He probably meant an email 😛 Not even old people write letters anymore.
You could well be correct, but, um, not only old people write letters, these days. I received a letter in the mail from my young niece just a couple of months ago. Sure, it’s possible it was an email, but given the way D&D described it in the panel, there’s no way it was a text, as it sounded rather lengthy. It’s also possible they used the term letter for an email, as I can think of plenty of times I’ve heard someone say they got a letter in their email, or something along those lines. I think both D&D are in their 40’s, and people who are in their 40’s grew up without email. Many people around that age refer to them as letters.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
I’m kind of two minds on that
I feel like the interview from the magazine sounded like a veteran, older person/actor. They used older words, and seemed disappointed as a book reader but eventually resigned at the idea.
This letter writing thing sounds like it could be someone young… or to me… maybe
I mean… he does possibly DIE this season. I mean, poor guy was not moving a muscle during that bit.. I feel like that letter thing could be a different, separate thing…. a bit funny really… hell, he could die and not be in the show for 1/2 of season 6… that would suck as an actor…
Oh.. and it could have been a Pink Letter too… hehehe
I’m not convinced that Finn is the person quoted in EW, though—unless the larger amount of material that actor referred to was the siege of Dragonstone, which surely he realized was quite a long shot in terms of being translated to the screen….
The more I think about it though, the more convinced I am that Loras is on the chopping block. It would certainly add a heightened level of tension to the Marg-Cersei feud. Perhaps that clip in the trailers of Margaery being comforted by Tommen is after Loras’ death…
He would fit the description of someone who had been around since the beginning (he was in season 1), hasn’t had too much to do, and could think, given what happens in the books, he’d have much more to do this season
For my part I am resigned to the death being
As a fan of book Ser barristan I am dissapointed but in terms of practical adaption issues given I don’t think they are doing Battle of Mereen and SB will be killed in it in the books I can understand why it would be streamlined this way
I just hope he finally gets his moment to shine (sounds like he will) and cuts down a mountain of Harpy’s Sons before going out with a bang, eg rather than being beaten in combat the Dragons kill him ala Quentyn on the way out, so it took something absurd for Ser Barristan to get overcome + he went down fighting as any top notch member of the KG with honour should do
Similar issues with Mance, I like book Mance and Ciaran Hinds showed some potential with that “we shall not kneel” scene but given I don’t think they are doing Abel and Horn of Joramun in addition to literal Manderly etc etc I am not surprised they are killing him off either
Looking at the deaths from a positive perspective, it means the casting list is cleared up for other characters to be brought in, certain Ironborn characters in particular…
For my part I think they are doing a mostly fine job of translating it to screen. Casting is brilliant. Butterfly is making itself effect
Only strategic creative issue I have is with lack of flashbacks and dream sequences, they could have started with Bran to make him more pronounced which they need to do to put him on a pedestal but there was the opportunity to flesh out backstory which adds to what is happening in the present. Eg Breaking Bad did this very well but it isn’t make or break
How come no one thinks that [/spoiler]
Loras is the one who dies this season? Seems like he would be one to write a letter to D&D explaining why he should be in the show?[/spoiler]
I do think that Finn Jones could be the EW source though. The argument I’ve heard against that is that Loras is more involved this season than before or even in the books, but 1) Finn may have thought he would he in it even more than he already is and 2), more importantly, the quote was more based on his schedule being shorter than previous seasons. Because Loras is one of thos King’s Landing background characters, I can easily see him having more substantial scenes in S5, but if he’s killed off in, say, Episode 5, he would maybe have less days in total to actually shoot, as he won’t gave to show up to be in the background for any KL scenes for the second half of the season.
Smart money’s still on Barristan being the EW source, but I wouldn’t be incredibly surprised if it was Mance or Loras instead.
I would bet Jones complained via letter/email, though, Hinds and McElhinney seem way too professional to do that.
At first mention, it sounded like an older actor to me, too. I thought about it some more, though, and that’s when I realized an older actor would know how things go in the business better than to think writing a letter explaining why their character should not die would do any good. Plus, an older actor would be more likely to realize something like that could paint them as someone, perhaps, somewhat difficult, and that’s something you don’t really ever want going around about you.
Ellio and Linda are hypocrites. And I’m not sure that she is completely healthy person.
They are not hypocrites: they just are in it for the details and the faux history, and not for the story. If you rewrote a history exam to be about what happens in SoI&F, then those two would ace it cold, at least for the parts about what happened when, and what characters stated were motives.
However, if you took a literature exam and rewrote it to be about SoI&F instead of whatever books were covered that term, they would not just fail it miserably: they would not even understand what the question were asking.
Thus, they really are not hypocrites. They do not want an adaptation of GRRM’s stories. They want a detailed documentary of Martinverse worthy of a History Channel series. (And lest it seems like I am accusing them of being unique oddballs, then let me assure you that there are plenty of Tolkien, Rowling, Herbert, etc., fans who want the same thing, and plenty of Doctor Who, Star Trek, etc., fans who want the analogous things from their TV series.)
Are we sure the actor who wrote this letter is the same person we’ve been speculating about for some time and most likely
? I realise it’s the most likely answer, but not necessarily so, and could in fact point to different people.
We know that Jonathan Pryce said there was an actor who was unhappy with his death, which leads me to believe it might be someone connected to his storyline. We also know that
criticised D&D back in S1 for not giving him enough to do. Having in mind that
, if the show sticks to the books, dies off screen and just shows up as a corpse, maybe it’s him?
EDIT: I’m apparently a village idiot when it comes to formatting the text with spoilers included.
I sometimes question Linda’s sanity…. Shes has a really unhealthy and strange hatred for show fans….. and Lena Headey…. very much Lena Headey
Am I the only one who thinks it’s kind of alarming that David Benioff didn’t remember that Sam was a viewpoint character?
I was waiting for someone to bring that up. I wouldn’t say it’s alarming, but surprising. He must go back and re-read certain chapters while mapping out each season and writing each episode. Sam isn’t a major POV character, but he had enough chapters that you’d expect someone to remember that he is one.
Probably not. Some purist are out there drawing breath.
He probably was referring to the first book without making it clear that he was doing so. Sam does not become a PoV character until the 2nd book, after all. However, the show started treating him as a supporting plus character pretty much from the start.
I believe it was not until the 3rd book that Sam became a POV character.
This is the most accurate description of E&L that I’ve ever read.
This is actually pretty telling because, to me, it narrows down who this character that’s dying is.
What will most likely happen to Barristan is he’ll take on the Belwas role. Taking a hit for Dany. Either being poisoned or mortally wounded in a fight, but I don’t think it’ll be him dying this season.
You are right! I was thinking that Sam got a PoV chapter late in Clash, but the chapter of which I am thinking is early in Storm. Well, that just shows you what a horrible excuse of a fan I really am!
Heh, I probably have used it before in reference to people running some of the Potter/Lord of the Rings/Doctor Who sites! But if you cannot plagiarize yourself, well, who can you plagiarize? 😀
Hmmm, didn’t the Oldtown Daily Times feature a Dewar’s Scotch advertisement with Barristan Selmy stating that his favorite snack with scotch was honeyed locusts?
I think the actor who Entertainment Weekly was talking about is different than who Benioff was referring to. The EW actor is either
or a number of other actors could be who Benioff is describing.
But what about the part of the EW interview where its said that the character who gets killed off was about to have far more to do in the books than ever before?
So I am starting to think Littlefinger might cheese it this season. He could fit almost all of the death descriptions we’ve heard
Linda is the head of the purist.
I really don’t know how she or her minions sleep at night with so much negative, bitterness and jealousy over a successful show from your favorite book.
You can Reboot this franchise 10 times and it will NEVER match the book. Might as well enjoy it while is here.
Linda is FOX News of ASOIAF
There’s also no reason to believe the different anecdotes all apply to the same character.
Loved this panel. Very entertaining.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
ME TOO! But I think you’re right. In the books, they seem to have some relationship to the past events (and perhaps the magical elements) that the show is not focusing on.
Absolutely. Linda is very antisocial (strange in a person who runs a website supposedly valuing discussion) and there is a power element there that is particularly grating. Their book is the only ASoIaF book that I do not own and will not be purchasing just because of their involvement.
He doesn’t fit any of the descriptions, actually. One, as far as I know, Aidan Gillen hasn’t read the books. Two, he does not have the type of personality to write a long letter asking D&D to reconsider killing off his character. Finally, Littlefinger was barely present in AFFC and ADWD.
You’re counting one of the descriptions as two different ones — the read the books + lots to do in AFFC / ADWD is the same anecdote.
He could def be the one who didn’t read the scripts and died and was unhappy (per High Sparrow), and I don’t see why we just know he isn’t the type of person who would write a letter. I don’t know how it is possible to divine that information about someone just from watching them act and in interviews.
In fairness, neither are the books! All we really know about the Dayne family is that they are a very old family that had one female who caught the eye of at least one of the Stark brothers (and who
), had one male in the Kingsguard who was killed by Ned Stark and who bore a famous sword that Ned returned to the Dayne family, and that there is another male (Darkstar) who seems like a bit of a psychopath. They have been subject to endless speculation by the fans, particular in debates about who Jon’s mother might be, and whether the family sword is a Really Important Sword: but we do not seem to have many “hard facts” about them. (Indeed, after so long, I’m a little fuzzy on where the facts end and the fan speculation starts, although I’m quite certain that the facts end pretty quickly.)
It actually might not be. Supposedly the web is a great social tool for people who do not socialize well: which is part of the reason why venom, vitriol and vehemence dominate it so much! Many people use it to augment their social lives: but some do use it as a substitute.
At any rate, every fandom has quite a few Lindas. And that is fine: there is not a “wrong” reason for liking a book or a TV series or a movie series or that slug under a rock. (Slugs are cool, after all.) However, the Lindas almost universally fail to understand that when people like Peter Jackson or David Heymen or Benioff & Weiss see the same tale and go: “I want to set this to film!”, the adapters never are doing so because they want to dramatize all the details that the Lindas love from the books or the old TV episodes. Instead, they are seeing the story and thinking of how powerful it could be in the visual medium.
They take the same sleeping pills as the Tolkien purists, the Harry Potter purists, and the “Classic only” Doctor Who fans, I suppose! 😀
I literally snorted beer out of my nose when I read that!
(Lucky I missed my laptop!)
((Everything smells like beer now, and that’s not a bad thing))
Have you listened to him speak or watched an interview with him? There is no way he is the type to be so devastated that he’d write a letter asking D&D to reconsider killing his character. Of the 3 possible surprised actors, Aiden Gillen would be far down the list of suspects.
From what I’ve seen of him, I cannot imagine Aiden Gillen lobbying the writers to save his character.
Upon listening to this Benioff interview, it doesn’t sound as if the EW interviewee–the actor who read the books and was hoping for an upgrade in screen time, only to learn that he was getting killed off instead–and the letter writer–who was the only actor to push back and refuse to take being killed off lying down, including a long conversation, followed by a long letter–are the same person. The EW interviewee sounded depressed but resigned. The letter writer raised holy hell, from the sounds of it.
Re: Premature Demise
I think the EW interview happened a good while after the letter writing campaign. Theletter would’ve been written after scripts went out but prior to filming. The interview was after the death was filmed. Pretty easy to imagine someone going from indignation to resignation in tha span of time.
And for the argument that Ian McElhinney wouldn’t lash out like that, try to think of this role from his perspective. He lands a pretty cool role on season one as this hyped warrior, gets a few badass lines in. He likes it, reads the books, and is like “wow, this is really cool, and my part is great!” Then the showrunners tell him he’ll be sitting season 2 out, and he’s kind of bummed, but he gets it. That’s how the book goes, after all. Then, season 3 comes, and he’s reintroduced. His cool fight scene is reduced to stabbing a bug, but eh, whatever. And sure, the rest of the season he just stands around, but they couldn’t really do the Arstan plot on TV, so I guess this was unavoidable. Then season 4 comes… And nothing. He gets to stand in the background for another season. He gets one real scene, where he gets to snark at Jorah a bit. Oh boy. But ok. Season 5. Here comes the payoff. He takes control of Meereen for himself in a coup, defeating a badass bodyguard in single combat, he leads a cavalry charge into battle, smashing enemy legions and destroying their trebuchets. He gets to make inspiring speeches and all that. He’s a real protagonist in his own right now, no longer just background decoration. Oh, what’s that? I die? Don’t even make it to the end of the season? Oh fuck this. I could totally see him lashing out at that point.
I reckon it’s
I’m wondering if this whole story about a letter is DnD trolling the fandom. It seems rather disrespectful for them to speak about a former actor this way…….. unless it really was some serious falling out. It seems almost vengeful to tell that story in that way. To see Kit smiling like he did when they were telling the story… I dunno. Perhaps it was him and hence the smile, perhaps a pink letter, perhaps…. they were just trolling. I feel like most of the actors people are suggesting are industry vets- classy, hopefully above writing an appeal to the show creators.
I am not suggesting we won’t see some surprising deaths this season (I am looking forward to it). I am just wondering if this is a ruse by the creators to stir up controversy. Then again, why go to that length?
20 days. STOKED!
The show runners didn’t sound like they had much respect for the person who complained. There was a ‘good riddance’ aspect to the way they spoke about the person.
This mystery actor…. I guess those who think EW actor is different from this one are right. It is hard to imagine an actor who fit all clues.
My take for now is that EW actor is Ian McElhinney and the actor D+D talked about is someone either too young or too entitled. Cirian Hinds could be later, he would really have rights to be pissed about how they handled his character, but i have hard time imagining he would care that much. Finn Jones on other hand always sound very passionate about GoT so i believe it could be him. Or it could be the actor playing main role in that shocking suprise death we heard so much.
I agree. It was unusual because the GoT ‘community’ is usually one big love-in – Benioff’s comment here kind of jarred.
For that reason, and I’m basing this only on my vague impression of the actors’ characters and their potential to rub people up the wrong way, I’m guessing it’s either
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Considering the material we now know they have invented for Loras, and the fact the actor filmed for quite a while this year, I’d say Loras has MORE material in season five than in AFFC/ADWD, even if you include the off-page siege. I don’t see how he fits at all. It was described as a character who unequivocally has a much larger role in AFFC/ADWD than in previous books, while in the show this jump to protagonism won’t happen and the character will in fact die early.
Loras does not fit. His character does not become more important in the latter books (I’m pretty sure he appears more in previous books.) Unfortunately, I’m pretty sure it’s the good old knight.
However, we’re still not sure if the EW guy and the letter guy are one and the same.
Meh. It’s not such a big deal. At first it startled me as well, but it really shouldn’t.
Please let’s consider that Sam only begins to have a story which can be truly considered his own in AFFC. Before that, while he had POV chapters, that’s all they were; a point of view to give us access to certain parts of the Night’s Watch ranging now that Jon wasn’t there, not unlike Barristan giving us an “in” into Meereen once Daenerys wasn’t there.
Sam’s only chapter in ASOS which truly tells his story, instead of being mostly a pair of eyes like any other, is Samwell III, when he’s already alone with Gilly, kills a wight and meets Colhands (a chapter adapted in the show to Sam killing a White Walker, which Sam had done in his first chapter of the book.) So, I don’t blame D&D for not remembering, especially considering that many events are told in flashback in the books, and that D&D have invented many new POVs which must be as real for them as the original POVs. The confusion is undersntable.
Also, though D&D do map out each season based on the books, as they themselves admitted it had been long ago since they had thought about the story they were telling in terms of book-POVs. Their job is to interpret and write; they don’t claim to know more about ASOIAF than anybody else. The greatest and most obsessive fans don’t automatically get to write the adaptations… and thank God for that.
I didn’t mention the letter. Whoever that is isn’t part of my argument. I was discussing the original EW and NY Daily Calendar reports, which concerned someone who expected a much greater role in season five based on AFFC and/or ADWD, and instead got killed early. The letter has nothing to do with that, and even if it has, even if both actors are one and the same, the letter anecdote provides us with no evidence at all.
This is how BS rumors starts. If you are a purist looking for more negative things to add, please dont.
It seems we were watching two different videos because I did not get that vibe at all. Sure there was some sarcasm and some smiles, even Kit couldn’t help but laugh.
Mountain, yeah. We’re less sure about ex-Daario.
While we’re at it, does anyone still miss Ed Skrein? I thought he was great in all his glorious sliminess.
I don’t think that’s 100% fair – I got that vibe as well and am anything but a hardcore purist. I just picked up a slight undercurrent of annoyance here, which was probably accentuated by the room being silent after the comment rather than laughing along. I agree there’s probably nothing in it, but it’s fair enough to read it that way.
Yes, I thought he was perfect in the role.
I thought Skrein was fine, but Huisman is much, much better. To start with, he’s a much better and experienced actor, I don’t think anyone would deny that. Also, though Huisman’s take on the character diverges way more from the original Daario than Skrein’s did, Huisman’s Daario is someone who I find believable that show|Dany would fall in love with (or wanna bone.) Skrein’s Daario would impress a giddy teenager, which Dany simply isn’t in the show —she’s older, for a start, and her character is different enough in other ways that I wouldn’t find it believable if she became enchanted in any way by book|Daario’s “adornments” (both those applied to his body and to his carefully projected devil-may-care personality.) It’s not that i thought Daario’s flirting in season three was badly done, in isolation; the problem was that I didn’t find it believable that Dany bought that charade. Season four’s Daario, however? He’s at show|Dany’s level. So that I can get.
what kind of perfect post
He still has his curly woman hair so Jon Snow is still alive.
I know what you mean, but I just found Skrein a lot more interesting and memorable in the role. He just oozed sleazy arrogance – whether that was the right take or not is up for debate but I found him a very interesting screen presence. Although Huisman is clearly a very good actor, he comes across as too ‘nice’ and slightly anodyne for me.
Yeah, I thought so too. While I have nothing against new!Daario per se, old!Daario was, to me at least, a much livelier presence, quite a different character from everyone we’d seen on the show until that point. Love him or hate him, you couldn’t miss him.
I one made the mistake of reading some of Linda’s posts on her tumblr blog. Westeros seems rational in comparison. I could really picture her on Fox News
Skrein’s was “the right take” on the character insofar as he was pretty similar to Daario from the books. I know —no blue beard and golden teeth, but still, he was pretty similar in terms of personality.
However, can you imagine Dany in the show, who is not the fourteen-year-old hormone-filled teenager she is in the books, falling for that Daario? The original Daario is a peacock flaunting his goods with all those flashy colors, and Skrein is not far behind.
For season four they realized that, faithful to the book character or not, they needed someone who Emilia Clarke’s Dany would want. Huisman’s Daario is, as you said, less sleazy, less arrogant, and even less “memorable” (less superficially eye-catching, at any rate), but that’s kind of the point: I don’t think Clarke’s Dany would ever have sex (let alone fall in love) with peacock-Daario, whether it is the one from the books or Skrein’s. Honestly, I think Clarke’s Dany would laugh at such a man, unimpressed by his ridiculous flaunting and his ostentatious display of a devil-may-care attitude that would only impress a teenager. Dany is more mature in the books, so for the relationship to work Daario had to be more mature too.
Does the change make Daario less immediately memorable? Maybe. But “memorable” does not mean “good character.” Strong Belwas is pretty-darn memorable, and many book readers miss him, but they miss him because he’s memorable, not because the character has any depth to him. I think Huisman’s Daario is not only a better fit for TV’s Daenerys, but also a character with so much more potential for development: since he acts like a human being, he can develop as human characters do, something the original caricature wouldn’t ever be able to accomplish —because he was a caricature.
I meant “Dany is more mature in the show”, not “in the books”, obviously.
That’s just wonderful. She does belong in FOX News! If they didn’t get any money out of the show it wouldn’t bother me, but they do.
All completely valid arguments. I just think it’s OK – particularly in a show with such a huge cast and therefore where attaining any real depth of character is challenging – to have the occasional caricature.
The only thing I would disagree with you on is that show Dany wouldn’t fall for Skrein’s Daario. I think she would – she is older yes, but does not have much experience with love / lust – I could see her giving into Daario’s bravado out of intrigue and amusement (and self-empowerment as it’s the first time in her life she has ‘chosen’ someone to sleep with) and also because her time with Drogo has taught her she is attracted to strong, very self-confident men. From season 3 I got the impression that she knows he’s a bit of a dick, but can’t help be slightly bowled over by the way he goes about winning her heart (heads in a bag and all).
Daario is one character that I don’t give two shits whether or not the show gets right, lol. The Daario in the books was my least favorite character (apart from Janos Slynt).
And yea, Elio and Linda turned on the show when they didn’t include the House of the Undying. Anyone who understands anything of TV, would know thats an unadaptable scene. Not just from $$$ standpoint, how can they have so many intricate prophecies when they don’t even know what they can and cannot adapt.
If Loras dies he dies not before 5.10, as there would be no reason for Finn Jones to have the 5.10 script if Loras wasn’t in it.
He also said at a convention he was happy with the change to “heir of Highgarden” from the books after all, because that ment he got more material for season 5, which doesn’t quite fit with some of the stuff the surprise death supposedly said/wrote.
You honestly think,that Kit will be there with them on this big event,if he do such a thing?They actually praised Kit throughout the whole event.How he is good with a sword,humble/polite with fans etc.It could be a young actor tho.
Couldnt remember Sam was a POV? Maybe that explains why all the Sam AFFC material is missing! Never read it! :p
Tinfoil trolling at 22:30? –
Best part of the clip is when Kit says he’d want to be a warg and get into a wolf.. After which the entire rooms starts laughing, EXCEPT the one guy with glasses in the lower right corner of the shot.. at 22:20, after which I can only conclude that I’ve spotted a Purist. You can just see him thinking: “He’s already a warg, what’s this dude on about? Are D&D not adapting that?! SEVEN HELLS!” ~Priceless!
I think he was momentarily confused about Sam having POV chapters before AFFC, which is understandable, considering that’s when Sam’s own story truly starts, while in ASOS he was mostly a pair of eyes to witness the Night’s Watch ranging once Jon was gone (with a few exceptions.) He admitted the main reason for his confusion, too: it’s been a long time since they’ve thought about the story in terms of the original POV characters.
Meh.. maybe. But do you really think he’d be allowed to cut off his hair as the biggest spoiler of all-time to the unsullied?
I feel like there was a real letter certainly.. but I don’t feel the bitterness other people seem to. It was either a funny letter, or a genuine letter that someone knew wouldn’t get respected – but someone couldn’t help but make a go for it. Zombie jokes and such.
Since Kit has read the books
Edit I can’t get the spoiler tags to work! Isn’t it (spoiler) (/spoiler) Except with < instead of ( ?
It’s with ‘[‘ and ‘]’.
Regarding the actor who sent the letter, was it stated by anyone in the panel that it was someone who dies in season 5? I assumed this, and thought it could have been
, but then I remembered seeing a video about many of the deceased characters from season 4, and the guy who played Grenn told almost verbatim what D&D told in the Oxford panel. In fact, when John Bradley reacted like “I think I know who you are talking about” made me think it was someone in their close environment.
Lots of E&L bashing going on here. At this point I think that’s unnecessary. We already know they are purist. I think they are unfair to the show but that’s to be expected from what we’ve seen of them before.
And let’s face it, to some extent so are we.
I imagine most ppl here will be disappointed if Edd is not fetching a block in season 5 for example
Im done w/ the E&L bashing now. I actually used to love their videos for westeros.org and I actually kinda like Elio, despite his passive aggressive reviews.
Yea I did read that. Definitely not defending those actions. But are we going to bash her every time she complains about the show?
Does that not make us look just as bad if we constantly feel the need to kick someone in the teeth?
Just my 2 cents
Anyone who thinks Dany has been whitewashed in the show should read the scripts for Season 2 again where D&D turned her into Viserys
Others may disagree, but personally, my main problem with Elio and Linda isn’t that they’re purists, though I do have a problem with any kind of literalist fanatic, be it in a religion or a fandom. Purists and fanatics often miss the point of the story and care only about the details. As Wimsey pointed out earlier, no one denies Elio & Linda may know GRRM’s fictional history better than the author himself —however, judging by the kind of cuts that irk them, it seems they do not understand the concept of story, not even remotely.
If purists were handling the adaptation, the show would surely be more “faithful” to the books… you know, if you were a machine analyzing the differences —meanwhile, they’d completely miss the spirit, the point of the stories, precisely because of the time wasted on details which do not help in telling the story. Or they’d want to have it both ways and have a show that goes on for 12 years and is boring as fuck, with the worst pacing ever.
I find it laughable that Linda says D&D don’t “get” this or that character, or the story, or haven’t showcased the suffering of the smallfolk (Arya & the Hound season 4? Nah, that was mostly invented filler, which is heretic, so it has to be automatically disregarded!). Oh, and D&D have white-washed Dany! And how does Linda know this? Because she isn’t all “Fire and blood!” in the trailers nor in the first and only episode of the season they’ve watched. Yes, exactly… something that doesn’t happen until the end of ADWD, and the show will wisely introduce as Dany’s arc for the season. Then there’s the fact that they think the Sparrows should’ve been heard about before being shown (as was the case in the books), which showcases their utter lack of comprehension about how a visual medium works. They’re merely irksome in terms of analyzing the books; but in their criticism of the show, they are buffoons.
As for my feelings on Elio and Linda outside of their brainless fanaticism, I have no particular problems with Elio. However, Linda is simply not a pleasant person… and that’s a big understatement. I warn you —you may not want to read that. I have no problem with “bashing” her. Who knows, maybe she’s very nice in person, but considering how utterly poisonous she is towards anything she doesn’t like, I cannot but see her as a despicable person.
Yeap. Also, there is Dany’s ‘Ice Queen’ routine early in season four. In ASOS she was way more conflicted about her more problematic actions, like crucifying the slavers. I guess D&D want to make her “fall” from an even higher ego-peak, which is understandable. At any rate, Dany has not been white-washed in any way.
Actually, that fall already began in the second half of season four, with three big losses for Dany: Jorah’s exile; the freedmen entering into contracts with the slavers, which Barristan points out will mean reintroducing slavery in all but name; and the loss of her dragons, with Drogon escaped and Rhaegal and Viserion imprisoned.
Whatever the case (and despite questionable adaptation choices in Season 2), I think Dany’s arc has been translated as it has been written. A young girl with a stubborn quest for righteous justice and learning that its not easy to maintain her sense of right/wrong.
Exactly. Also their argument in the newest video about
And I think it shows just how spoiled you are when you get to attend the world première of an episode millions of us can’t wait to see, and then talk about it with a complete lack of enthusiasm. The only thing that put a smile on Linda’s face was the fact that the food at the afterparty was nice. That’s just sad.
It wouldn’t make sense w/ the show’s version of Cersei (something we know they despise). Whatever, its their opinion.
Couldn’t agree more! 😉
The minute that Dany started ruling instead of just conquering, she was confronted with the fact that not everything is black and white. I expect this to be a big part of her arc in season five as well.
I have to admit I really enjoyed seeing that panel.
The look on Kit’s face when he realises what he just said about his wolf wish is priceless.
Generally I don’t like watching panels because sound tends to be bad (non-native english speaker), the questions are stupid and the guests barely have any opportunity to really say anything.
But this one was truly pleasing to watch. The audience seemed mostly well articulated, the questions – while some typical and answered many times – lead to insighful and fairly elaborate answers. All of the 4 panelists got to speak (to shine, even).
“Quite a lot”… That’s interesting. Fingers crossed that we’re wrong!
Wic shared a pretty funny clip of an analysis of the Westeros economy.
I assume there will be visions. Of whom? Not sure.
Some of you people are going overboard with your comments on Linda. So far in these comments I’ve read “she’s unhealthy”, “anti-social”, “strange,” “not a pleasant person”, “utterly poisonous”, and someone questioned her “sanity.” I think that’s a bit much just because you don’t like the fact she isn’t as big a fan of your favorite TV show as you are.
I went overboard
Which new book characters are you Guys most looking forward to in season 5?
Mine would be of course The High Sparrow. But I’m also really interested in seing what they do with Yessan. Looks like they took away his obeesity and his sickness (or not). I hope they keep in his taste of grotesques. He’ll probably be a new villain among Mereens slavers.
Not a new character, but I’m really stoke abot them bringing back Kevan and Lancel at this specific time, which is the perfect time, in my opinion. I really enjoyed Kevans actor, really nailed the character in my opinion, in that we dont really notice him and et he s a presence. And Eugene Simons will end up having thi amazing Little arc throughout the series, that will now enter a new face, with his religon.
How about you Guys?
Absolutely High Sparrow
Just his line in the trailer “You are the few, we are the many” was so amazing delivered by the actor. I think this will be Cersei’s breakout season, so any part of her story line is what I’m most excited about.
I’m especially looking forward to Doran Martell, and how they’ll present him and his condition. Hope they make him epic in a way.
And agree on Kevan and Lancel. Gives the whole series an incredible sense of continuïty
She isn’t a pleasant person. And that has nothing to do with how she feels about the TV show. I admit, I never knew much about her, other than she was a superfan who helped run westeros.org. I figured people didn’t like her because, as you said, she didn’t like the show. That was until I read this: http://thestarkalypse.tumblr.com/post/38793074715/get-your-cunt-stained-fingers-off-my-mush-the
She is an asshole, and I have no problem with anyone calling her on her shit.
Oh yeah. I Forgot about Dorne for a minute. Really excited about the Dorne-characters too. Especially Doran and Areo. I am so surprised, they kept Areo, but I guess he’ll be Dorans legs, kinda like the Hodor to Dorans Bran. Except this Hodor will be an exeptionel fighter.
In regard to Doran, I am especially interested in how they differentiate him to Oberyn. He has to be so very different, but still have the same burning Desire for revenge. And Alexander Siddig is an actor, WHO can nail that
I’ve read accounts from people who were banned from Westeros.org simply for posting theories Elio and Linda disagreed with
. Part of me almost hopes
just to watch the Westeros.org people’s heads explode.
There are plenty of people with whom I don’t agree with who I still don’t decry as “poisonous.” Linda would not be one of them… because she is everything that people are calling her, and she would still be so even if she was the greatest show apologist ever. Tyrion Pimpslap has directed you to one of the many reasons I find her so despicable (though a quick glance at her Tumblr blog should do the job; her most recent entry, for example, in which she says she wants Ellaria to die because she’s taken Arianne’s role from the books, and that Areo and the Sand Snakes have been cast as multi-racial because of “diversity” (Fox News, anyone?). That’s why I don’t think her opinion should be distributed anywhere, in any fandom, against or in defense of anything. I don’t think someone like that should be given any kind of publicity.
I’m also weirdly excited about Kevan and Lancel being back, despite their roles not having been particularly noteworthy in the past, especially Kevan’s. As for the new characters, definitely the High Sparrow, and also everyone from Dorne, Doran Martell most of all.
Really looking forward to meeting Doran in the show.
Looking forward to the High Sparrow too. He’s a really interesting character, and Jonathan Pryce is great!
Im not defending Linda, but its best not to post that tumblr blog because its just as negative as she can be.
Tbh, I actually enjoyed Linda’s videos on westeors.org analyzing the books before they became anti-show.
Yeah, that will be interesting as well. Also simply the fact, that so many characters are out of their ‘safezone’ in a way, Places where they have been for seasons and seasons. Tyrion is out of KL, Stannis finally left Dragon Stone, Arya left westeros. They are in new places, interacting with new characters, and it will be fascinating to Watch, including of course the Whole new character interactions.
I’m just always courious to see new characters, even the minor ones. But yeah, as far as interactions go, Cercei/Qyburn is high on my list. I am a uge fan of Cercei´s feas for crows-arc, and they seem to be doing it pretty close to the material, which Means lots of cercei/qyburn time. And of course, the small tragic chracter Stalwart Shield in Mereen. Feast/Dance are the deepest of the 5 books, and it seems to maybe, that eventhough they are cutting heavilly (which is completely nessasary), that hey ar keeping some of that deepness. Focusing, if only for a Little while, is an example of this.
I am most curious about all Dornish characters. Because Dorne is my favorite kingdom, because of interesting casting and because of changes in that storyline, which will help me to enjoy it more as half-unsullied. I miss that feeling to not knowing what will happen next i had when i watched first two seasons as unsullied.
I am also looking forward to see High Sparrow and Lancel, but there is smaller potential for suprise in KL storyline, so i am looking forward to them a little less then to Dornish characters. Oh and can not forget septa Unella. From what i seen from the London premiere, she will be great. She have that smug bitch expression that is just perfect for the role.
Sounds different from the ew source to me.
Did you watch the entire panel? D&D spent most of it praising Kit and talking about how professional he is. It didn’t sound like they were very happy with the letter writer, which is why it was said that it made them want to kill the character more.
It is that lack of information that intrigues me. We get heraldry descriptions and family attachments for all of the houses, great and small, of Westeros in the books, but almost nothing about the Daynes. Perhaps it is GRRM playing with our natural curiosity; or there is a reason he has kept information about them out of the narrative. I’m intrigued!
I forget sometimes that I am not talking to friends who know me personally and remember what I have said in the past. My lack of respect for Linda (and unfortunately by association, Elio) comes from experience. I was a Westeros community member long before the show aired and long before I found this delightfully quirky and tolerant group in its former incarnation. After bouncing back and forth during Season 1, I left Westeros and have not returned because of the snide and condescending (at best), and vitriolic and defamatory (at worst) comments directed at ASoIaF fans (both book and show) that dared to express opinions with which Linda did not agree. It made me uncomfortable and outraged on the commenter’s behalf, and very sad. As this site shows, there is no reason to attack a person’s manhood, intelligence or family tree, for example, because they do not share an opinion about a FICTIONAL CHARACTER. Every time I hear of a new example of this vitriol, it baffles me and makes me sad all over again that that kind of behavior is still in evidence on a site that I used to enjoy frequenting very much. I am still waiting for that kind of behavior, which I deem antisocial, from that particular person to cease. (Apparently, Wimsey, the web socialization is not helping her in that regard as the behavior continues unabated.) Whether or not they agree with D&D’s choices has nothing to do with my objections to their web presence. Their knowledge of the source material is unrivaled. Too bad I (and many others; see Luka’scomment) cannot tolerate nor support the way in which they choose to share that knowledge on the web.
I want to see more of Hizdahr too! I loved his scene in the throne room. He felt very genuine to me, in a way that the slimy Hizdahr of the books never did (probably by design, granted.)
I always forget about Hizdahr because he’s in that weird middle-ground between “new” and “existing” characters, you know? Usually D&D only introduce major characters in the adaptation of the book in which they become major (the Tullies, the Reeds, etc.) Introducing Hizdahr in little more than a cameo was a bit weird for D&D’s, but I loved it. It creates a longer-term visual continuity:
I’m excited by the idea of not knowing (broadly) how things will pan out this season for the first time in a couple of years and, though I didn’t think Dorne was that interesting in the books, the addition of a couple of familiar characters makes it more appealing. I thought the problem with Dorne in the books is you are suddenly introduced to a new area with new characters and new stories whereas in the show they appear to be wisely introducing the new area with familiar guides for the viewer to relate to.
The death wouldn’t be Jon. Both Dan and David fell over themselves complimenting Kit on the fact that he is so courteous to everyone who requests a photo, autograph or moment of his time. No way he would do the letter thing. Him looking down may be because he knows who the actor is or that was just his bitchy resting face. Who cares? The session was a small slice of actor/writer relationships and it was a privilege to watch.
Jon won’t die until he finds out who his mother is. That has been the question since the very beginning. Wake up and smell the coffee!
honey I’m home,
I agree. GRRM said in an interview somewhere some time ago that Jon will find out who his mother is. FTW is, in my opinion, an essential part of how this could be revealed. And D&D have said that they have speculated quite a lot about the identity of this woman when they first started reading the books. It was one of the trick questions GRRM asked them to make sure they really knew what was going on in the books. We already got a blue rose in the last season. I am looking for to more discussions on Lyanna and Rhaegar.
I get all my source material analysis these days from History of Westeros Podcast.
“The bold is me, and I find it pretty insulting, and rude. So many fans would have loved to be there. These two people were, but couldn’t help making back-handed remarks like this. I don’t mind people making criticismss, but I feel remarks like this are disrespectful, and they regularly do it. But as they (indirectly) profit from the show they will continue on like this, and will watch the show. I just wish their places at events like this were given to people who would be grateful for them, and not those who act like jealous children. Moreover, if they really dislike the show so much they can refuse; no one is making them go.”
Jeb & friends…..
Is it time for a “rude” fight? You have your opinion and we “book purisits” have ours. YOU consume entertainment the way YOU like to, and we “book purists” consume it the was like to.
The MAIN question is WHY does it hurt YOUR ego SO much that YOU have to argue with “opinions” of a camp you don’t particularly like? When we talk about our dislikes, criticisms, opinions, we discuss it in groups with either our own or people who choose to deliberate about the subject. That’s what intelligent mature people do. Furthermore, people who dedicate their lives passionately to certain subjects such as SFF AND/or medieval history have a lot invested in the original source material of this show. If YOU don’t like it, don’t interact with any of those people. Seek out your own milieu of buddies to discuss how great it is to watch the show. A lot of non book readers talk about “jealousy”, that’s completely absurd! Linda and Elio are included in a ton of events and invited to them because George is not just friendly with them, but has collaborated with them to write an important companion book to A Song of Ice and Fire. This book should mean nothing to people who do not wish to read the books. Fine. But to criticize them or other book readers because of their passionate attachment to the source material? Do OUR opinions count SO much to you people? By the way, if you want to complain about how inter-fighting among book communities is wrong, that’s a whole other topic and a reasonable discussion to raise.
It might be helpful to look at yourself and ask “why” you need book readers to find approval of the show YOU LIKE so much.
He gave a waffling, confused response because he was panicking. They never intended it as a rape scene, but they’re too cowardly to admit that bad editing and bad camerawork led to the impression that it was – and that it’s their fault for not noticing it until it aired.
Notice that he’s just cycling around between talking points, waffling – rambling about how “the cast works really hard” but avoiding the question.
Also notice that he never actually says the word “rape” but uses “distancing language” – “that”, “those”, etc. – which is a tell for when someone is lying or avoiding a subject.
Pay attention to his words: ultimately all he does is restate the question back at the audience member: “we did that because we felt it was something Jaime would do”.
He’s lying…poorly. Only succeeding in embarrassing himself.
Somehow, despite acknowledging that this appeared on the front page of the New York Times….Benioff thinks that he can just avoid the question and it will eventually go away — think about it: he never even bothered to come up with a stock answer to recite at someone, even though this was *obviously* going to come up in a Q&A eventually.
Extremely late, but I wholeheartedly agree. I often see “purists” bashed here. I am a purist in a lot of fandoms. I mean, you love changes and talk about it? I’m not stopping you, but let me hate and criticize them. You don’t think something is important part of a character? Don’t, but let me express my opinion.
I love this site, but comments ridiculing “purists” opinions often make me not want to come back here.
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