Filming

New video hints at Loras Tyrell’s role in season 5

Posted on by Sue the Fury

Loras

Just a few days ago, photos from the latest Game of Thrones filming in Dubrovnik showed Finn Jones with his castmates on set. Jones joined Lena Headey and Dean-Charles Chapman in the Croatian city that serves as King’s Landing, but fans were uncertain what role Loras will be playing in season 5.

Major spoilers below!

A new video of the shooting on Dubrovnik’s city walls has surfaced, hinting at what direction the knight’s story may be headed toward next year.

The footage depicts Loras being restrained and dragged away by members of the Faith Militant. The show has deviated substantially from the plotlines assigned to Loras in the books, and so there may be another change-up happening, with Loras more actively involved with the Faith storyline.

It’s unclear if he remains in their custody, with charges pressed, or is only temporarily restrained by them.

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Sue the Fury
Susan Miller, Editor in Chief of WatchersOnTheWall.com

110 Comments

  2. Wow, thats big! I guess it has something to do with him being gay, I can’t think of another reason for the Faith to restrain him.

  3. So is Loras about to become the new Lancel? Or are the Faith Militant going to lead him down the path of righteousness and heterosexuality? *sigh*

  5. Mobile or desktop, I honestly can’t decipher much from the video, apart from people -indeed- seeming to pull someone away.

    Can anyone spot other actors/characters? For instance, is Cersei there? Or Jonathan Pryce maybe?

    The potato which was used to film this is definitly a pretty low-quality potato.

  6. I dont mind when the show makes changes as much as some other book readers do, but one thing I really hated was what they did to Loras’ character. The way they portray him, they should have cast Sean Hayes to play him

  7. Of course it could be a number of things but isn’t the most likely answer that this is

    Loras having to be forcibly restrained as the Faith Militant take Margaery away when she’s arrested?

    Sometimes the simplest answer is the right one.

  9. King Tommen:
    Of course it could be a number of things but isn’t the most likely answer that this is

    Sometimes the simplest answer is the right one.

    I agree. I think he’ll be taking the Willis Tyrell role going forward.

  10. hmm, could Cersei have put the Faith up to it in order to get out of marrying Loras? The Lannisters did use Loras’ homosexuality (as confirmed by Olyvar) as leverage before.

    Maybe Loras is taking on the role of Margaery here as the victim of Cersei’s diffamation, which in the end gets her arrested herself. Question is, how would Loras’ arrest lead to Cersei being arrested too?

  12. Hope it’s just

    him being restrained as they arrest Margaery or being arrested because he knew of her “crimes” (like the bard whos name I forget or her little gang of girlies whos names I also forget) or perhaps even an accusation of incest (which I always got a suspicion of from the books) so they have something on her. An arresting him for being gay storyline would be incredibly lame. Not in the least because there’s not been any real evidence that people really view homosexuality in a particularly bad light in the universe. Hope they don’t see it as an oppurtunity to make some half-arsed social commentary instead of focusing on the plot.

  13. I’m guessing either

    restrained during the arrest or accusation of incest. They make the most sense from the perspective of what happens in the books, though obviously they could throw in something completely out of left field.

  15. My guess is that Cersei alerts the faith to Loras’ “aberrant behavior,” which gets him arrested. And later in the season Cersei receives karmic retribution, when the faith turn on her for similar reasons. It’s the old “unleash a beast you can’t control” narrative, and it’s usually a powerful one. I like it.

  16. Now, if we want to get into speculation land, here’s what they could do with the Tyrell/Lannister stuff this season:

    In order for Cersei to build a case against Margaery to get her arrested, she’ll have to have a co-conspirator to lie about Marg’s indiscretions in order to have her appear “impure”. Since there’s no Kettleblacks on the show, Meryn Trant looks likes he’s occupied with Mace in Braavos and the Tyrell cousins are just featured extras, Olyvar (who we know is returning) is the only real option. The guy has been established as fairly slimey and up for playing a part if he’s rewarded for it so that fits the characterization.

    And since Olyvar has already been intimate with Loras, it might make sense that Cersei’s plan involves Olyvar testifying that he’s been getting it on with both Tyrell siblings (menage a trois style even). This is a salacious enough accusation to get Marg (and Loras) imprisoned by the Faith. It also is delicious irony being concocted by Cersei given her brother-sister proclivities. And for the audience, there’s a callback there to what Marg first suggested as an arrangement for her Renly and Loras back in S2.

    It also possibly serves as a neat way for Cersei to kill two birds with one stone and remove herself from the Loras betrothal (which is still a thing as of the end of S4).

    Food for thought. As I stated, the simplest answer is probably the right one but speculation is fun too.

  17. TheTouchOfFrost,

    In a world where lineage and heirs means everything, homosexuality is always going to be viewed badly. Especially since this Loras is the only heir to Highgarden.

    But I really hope this has nothing to do with that. I already cringed hard enough as it was at Joffrey’s dialogue about Renly.
    R.I.P. Loras’ character.

  19. dee,

    I’m thinking this is it. Cersei has to be behind it. She knows Loras is gay, and we know he’ll have another sex scene with Olivegarden this season from interviews. So my guess is that Cersei supplies the High Sparrow with evidence to sabotage the wedding.

    The question is, as stated above, if this replaces Margery’s arrest or comes alongside it. I could see Cersei doing a major coup in throwing out the Tyrells piece by piece- first sending Mace to Braavos, then having his children arrested simultaneously and this preventing both marriages. Cersei is wacko enough to destroy her alliance with the Tyrells entirely. I think the show has built up the Cersei vs Margery rivalry too much for it not to climax in season 5 as it did in AFFC- so yes, I think both get arrested.

    I also think Loras will likely get out of it, and probably sooner than Margery and Cersei will.

  20. Delta1212,

    ^This is probably it, actually. Cersei constantly thinks about it in the book IIRC. But that would be a real dumb move on Cersei’s part since there probably won’t be any real evidence (and since it isn’t true).

  21. King Tommen,

    I’d be fine with this. Think it would have had more weight to it if Loras was a member of the Kingsguard too but it looks like that ship has sailed unless they did it early in this season (would make sense if he’s to become a role model for Tommen that he spends more time with him and piss Cersei off in the process giving her motivation to get him arrested too).

    Renly’s Peach,

    They don’t seem too bothered about it in Dorne! Loras in the show has been a joke so far. Defined purely by his sexuality whereas the book version loved Renly but it wasn’t just sexual as gay relationships are all too often characterised as. Enjoyed the almost mentor-like relationship between him and Jaime too with Jaime realising he is as bigger hot-head/idiot although talented (although not in Jaime’s league) as he was at that age!

  23. M. Bombastic:
    So is Loras about to become the new Lancel? Or are the Faith Militant going to lead him down the path of righteousness and heterosexuality? *sigh*

    Lol this would be terrible. I can see the show being heavily criticized for this by activist groups

  25. Turncloak,

    No, it COULD be terrible. I don’t see why the idea disturbs you so much, but fine. And activist groups can suck it- the fact that the show would have Loras arrested for being gay doesn’t make the show homophobic (which it certainly isn’t given that it shoves fairly meaty gay sex scenes in our faces once per season). This would be an accurate depiction of how some religions (or at least some religious people) view homosexuality and this seems fairly accurate to how a religious group with an army would act about it.

    We’ll see next year if this change is good or bad, let’s not rush to any conclusions.

    King Tommen,

    That sounds about right.

    And I don’t think he’s being restrained because he’s trying to stop Marge’s arrest- she wasn’t seen in Dubrovnik that day.

  27. aurane waters:
    I hope the only kind of role that Olyvar plays is that of the Blue Bard.

    That’s almost exactly what I’ve speculated above. The only difference being that instead of him testifying only through use of torture, he’s willingly involved in the plot since he’s already been shown to be a fairly underhanded individual willing to do what it takes for the people who pay him.

  28. Turncloak: Lol this would be terrible. I can see the show being heavily criticized for this by activist groups

    People will find something to complain about every single season without fail. So let them. I’m pretty sure the universe almost ended last season after the Jaime/Cersei thing. They even had to drag GRRM into it.

    The PC-police side of this show’s fanbase is insane. Literally.

  30. M. Bombastic: So is Loras about to become the new Lancel? Or are the Faith Militant going to lead him down the path of righteousness and heterosexuality? *sigh*

    Man that would be bad news for Eugene Simon, who has been wanting back for two seasons, tho Lancel did not have much to do after Blackwater. In any case the show actually runs a little thin for KL characters in the story now, as strange as that may sound.
    As with many ‘continuing’ characters now much has been heard from or about the actors… thinking Yara here who has appeared however brief, even tho Asha was missing for a long time in the books.

  31. jentario,
    King Tommen,

    Interesting stuff.

    Maybe Cersei will initiate Loras’s arrest but it will eventually backfire for her. Also, if the “charges” against Loras stick, maybe he’ll be sent to Dragonstone on a suicide mission….or to redeem himself….or something else that he and Marg cook up.

  32. Delta1212,

    It would actually be really funny if Cersei had Loras and Margaery arrested for incest. I kind of hope this happens.

    Either way it looks like Loras getting critically injured while taking Dragonstone (whether that’s real or the Tyrells are lying for some reason) is out.

  34. jentario,

    You don’t see Loras

    arrested for being gay as a problem? If that’s what it turns out to be it will be a shame. For one, people will be rooting for the faith militant as they give Cersei her just deserts. The show will absolutely seem homophobic if they go this route.

    .

    But besides that, it’s just a lazy plot choice in my opinion. Loras has no need to

    be taken into custody when they can do the same with Margaery.

  35. Turncloak,

    Nope, I just don’t get how that’s homophobic. And I also don’t think people will be cheering when the Faith sends Cersei on her Walk, or should they cut that too? The High Sparrow is no saint. He’s a badass and has some solid values, but he’s also a fairly stereotypical religious maniac and that comes with sexism and probably homophobic shit as well. That the show includes homophobic characters doesn’t make it homophobic too. The opposite is true, the show would actually be pointing a finger at religion. And if people will complain, let them- I bet it will blow over much faster than the Jaime/Cersei rape scene crap.

    The show doesn’t boast black and white characters, and I bet it’s outlook on religion will be similarly gray.

    And on it being lazy storytelling, you are entitled to your opinion but I for one am interested to see what they’re doing here and will not judge it before that. Whatever they do with Loras will be an improvement over what he did in season 3 and his nonexistence in 4.

  36. jentario,

    yeah if anything , the show will root against the Faith Militant if they arrest Loras for being gay. I don’t think the Faith Militant arresting Loras will be portrayed as a positive thing at all. Also the High Sparrow is a disgusting misogynist. The Faith Militant and the High Sparrow imo will be portrayed as mostly villainous on the show. No one likes religious zealots.

  37. Hodor’s Bastard,

    Personally, I think it would make more sense for him to be sent to the Shield Islands to defend them from The Ironborn. They’re Tyrell lands and also what better way to redeem himself with the church than to fight off followers of The Drowned God? Would also be a great way to introduce Euron/Victarion with Loras/The Tyrells thinking all he has to do is chase off a few minor reavers to redeem himself and be a hero for The Reach only to run into the big dog and perhaps have them gravely injure/ kill him depending on which way it goes in the book.

    aurane waters,

    Possibly…until he is potentially revealed to be Howland Reed and that maniupulating the faithful is part of some grand plan!

  39. aurane waters:
    jentario,

    yeah if anything , the show will root against the Faith Militant if they arrest Loras for being gay. I don’t think the Faith Militant arresting Loras will be portrayed as a positive thing at all. Also the High Sparrow is a disgusting misogynist. The Faith Militant and the High Sparrow imo will be portrayed as mostly villainous on the show. No one likes religious zealots.

    I agree and think the Faith Militant and High Sparrow should be portrayed as villainously as possible. Too many fans

    cheered Cersei’s walk even though it was a horrible, misogynistic punishment designed to make the readers feel uncomfortable no matter how much they dislike Cersei. Unfortunately, GRRM didn’t count on his readers believing that a misogynistic punishment is OK if they happen to not like the woman it’s inflicted on. He forgot that nerd culture is rife with sexism. The show would be smart hit viewers over the head with the fact that the faith, particularly the zealous wing of it, is oppressive and bigoted.

  41. TheTouchOfFrost,

    If I was doing the show I’d include a kickass Loras vs Euron fight scene, so I agree that sending him to fight the Iroborn raiders could have been great. That and the Kingsmoot really are the only real scenes Euron could have in season 5. Maybe another scene or two in private with Yara. But the lack of info makes it seem like he could be cut or at the very least delayed to season 6… There are still a couple of months left but time’s running out for Euron.

  42. If Howland Reed somehow ends up being the High Sparrow then Howland Reed is just a massive asshole. I’m not sure that’s the impression I’ve been given of him throughout the books.

    Silly theory but I guess more plausible than “Syrio is Jaqen H’gar”. This is what happens when you give your fandom the better part of 2 decades to wait until you tell them what the end of your story is.

  43. WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    I completely agree, I know some people are going to be turned off by the fact that it seems like the Sparrows will be going after drunk smallfolk and Loras for being gay, but in a television medium these scenes are necessary to show that these guys getting power is not a good thing. I think many people forget that the High Sparrow is trying to set an oppressive theocracy which is just not good at all. I hope my assumption of the Faith Militant and High Sparrow being portrayed negatively is correct. Plus D&D know the broad strokes for TWOW/ADOS so the villainous portrayal of the Faith Militant from the beginning could be a smart choice because I think the Faith Militant will create a lot of shit in TWOW.

  44. TheTouchOfFrost,

    I remember that topic being debated a few weeks back. That would definitely shape Loras’s story differently than expected.

    In fact, I believe anything they do with Loras at this point will definitely be considered spoilery, afaic, to his shaky book status. Personally, I believe that once Loras is separated from Marg, there will be a colorful target on his back. I still think Dragonstone is his destiny (or asylum) because another 5000 miles sea voyage to Pyke would test my/our patience. I also have trouble speculating any plotlines surrounding the ironborn anymore because of how they’ve been handled thus far. I don’t have the confidence that the showrunners care about the ironborn that much, Yara notwithstanding.

  45. WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    Cersei is a horrible human being in the books. This is not Brienne we are talking about. Cersei’s crimes probably merited harsher punishment(king slaying, bastard Genocide,

    indirectly responsible for needless dwarf genocide, rumored to throw her throw her friend down a well and killing her, sending people to kill jon snow because fuck it, why not, etc).

    Colored me shocked if people are unable to sympathize with Cersei

  46. Turncloak,

    I think you’re missing the point with what WeirwoodTreeHugger was trying to say, but this is a controversial debate that nobody will ever be able to agree on so I’m staying out of it.

  47. WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    I’m assuming you’ve read the books, so you must know what she did to her childhood friend, and what she had done to the Blue Bard and Falyse Stokeworth, none of whom had done her any harm. She’s a truly horrible person, which is why nearly everyone was glad to see her humiliated in such a way.
    I know the show has tried to make her more positive by giving her some “strong woman” characteristics, and having Joffrey do some of the terrible things she did in the books, but if we’re talking “Book Cersei”, I’m only surprised a single person felt sorry for her.

  49. aurane waters:
    I think many people forget that the High Sparrow is trying to set an oppressive theocracy which is just not good at all.

    A theocracy is not an ideal form of government, but portraying the High Sparrow as one-dimensionally bad (which I agree the show will probably do, since it’s not remotely subtle and has already demonstrated a tendency to make any character with religious associations look bad, even when they weren’t in the books) is a terrible idea, and overlooks all the complexity GRRM puts into the text (for instance, that the High Sparrow is the only major political figure in Westeros to priortize ordinary people; he’s fighting corruption within the Faith’s organization, which only serves the corrupt aristocratic status quo; and he’s attempting to apply the law to the nobility, which they’ve largely been pay lip-service to with impunity).

    There’s a tendency in much of secular fandom to view religiously-affiliated characters as more evil than others. You see many fan apologias for Tywin as a necessary dictator, for instance, when his actions have been immeasurably more harmful to Westeros than anything the High Sparrow has done, or is like to do. Theocracy isn’t ideal, but there is no “ideal” government in Westeros. I’m not arguing we’re meant to view him in clearly positive terms either, but he’s no worse than anybody else in the story, at most.

  50. Sean C.,

    I get what you’re saying but since the show can’t dedicate as much time on the Faith Militant than the books and since D&D are adapting ASOIAF as a whole now rather than just a single book, I don’t really mind the show simplifying the Faith Militant and High Sparrow especially because they’re not POV characters. I think its a fine decision for an adaptation, but I won’t deny that I’m a little biased.

  51. I haven’t read all the comments so I’m not sure if somebody else suggested this but

    I think he will be taking the role of Margaery’s cousins. Cersei will accuse Margaery of sleeping with her brother instead of her cousins.

  53. jentario,

    And activist groups can suck it

    Why the hell are people preemptively attacking gay activist organizations for positions that some of them “might take” in the future, regarding a hypothetical scene of Loras being arrested for his homosexuality? Insane. If the show, as is likely, shows this to be a despicable act by religious zealots, then such groups are more likely to praise the show for daring to confront real (and relevant) issues regarding homosexuals, as opposed to criticizing it for being “insensitive.” Unless the show-runners botch it, which I don’t think likely (particularly given the audience reaction to last season’s sept scene). Why not wait and see, rather than flaunt your prejudices in advance?

  55. Sean C.,

    indeed, the faith militant is portrayed as supporting the common man by GRRM and rooting out the corruption within the faith. Viewing the Faith militant as pure evil because they are religious is very narrow minded and missing the entire point of their narrative. Reading the point in which Cersei finally got a taste of her own medicine was exctasy even though I think she deserved far worse. Why is there no one upset at the way Lysa Aryn was murderd ? Are people sexist for believing Lysa got what she deserved when she got pushed through the moon door? Is it that far fetched to imagine Cersei in that position instead considering her crimes are comparable if not worse than Lysa Arryn?

    Simply put, Cersei’s punishment was deserved and probably should have been far worse when taking into account the world in which GRRM created

  56. Meh in getting too worked up over fictional characters :-p. I’m sure D&D won’t screw this up like they did with the rape last season

  57. WeirwoodTreeHugger: I agree and think the Faith Militant and High Sparrow should be portrayed as villainously as possible.Too many fans

    Yes, by all means let’s take a story whose very essence is that no one is all good or all bad and create cartoon villains. That’ll be awesome.

    Even if I agreed with the general crusade to make every piece of art and entertainment a moral guide, that would be an ineffective way to go about it.

    Do it like the book; show how awful it is; show Cersei’s POV and make people reconsider hating her that way. If people still cheer — and some will, and some of those who cheer will do for at least partially sexist reasons, then have a discussion. You might convince a few more.
    But making the Faith Militant evil isn’t going to do crap.

  58. Turncloak:
    Sean C.,

    indeed, the faith militant is portrayed as supporting the common man by GRRM and rooting out the corruption within the faith. Viewing the Faith militant as pure evil because they are religious is very narrow minded and missing the entire point of their narrative.

    This is something I don’t understand. Let’s assume that the show will make Faith Militant “pure evil”. How does that mean that the showrunners are missing the entire point since they are the ones who know the main points of the whole story while the rest of us only know as far as the books have been written?

    How can you even say that people who know the full picture are narrow minded and don’t understand the point when you don’t know the whole story like they do?

    We’ve only seen very little of Faith Militant’s role in the next season and just because the bits we’ve seen have been about fighting doesn’t mean they will be “pure evil” anyway.

  59. i honestly dont even wanna think about what they are doing with this…my hopes is that it has NOTHING to do with him being gay…they have destroyed his character from the very beginning…the way they deal with homosexuality is the same issue i have with them dealing with race…they use loras as the “typical feminine gay male” and they are now doing something similar (although we havent seen it yet) with areo hotah…(typical black bodyguard)…its so uninventive…i always had faith with d+d and it seems like they are just choosing easy ways to portray this story while throwing in some “diversity”…even though their idea of diverse is just another stereotype…it really pisses me the fuck off. i have enjoyed season 1-4 as a book adaptation and im afraid they are going to destroy this series by minimizing and taking easy storytelling ways out.

  61. Turncloak,

    Cersei should have been executed for her many serious crimes (including murder and torture), not forced to do the Walk for sleeping around outside of marriage. And I don’t think the High Sparrow I evil, not do I think that the show will portray him that way. The High Sparrow is a man that doesn’t steer away from his code, but I do think his code is flawed (in his views on women in the books and probably gays if he was given the chance) and that his ways of punishment are extreme. And I definitely cheered when the High Sparrow arrested Cersei- it was a truly great moment. The Walk, on the other hand…

    Same as Theon, I don’t think he deserved what he got. He should have just been executed and that’s it.

  62. ArgonathofBraavos,

    Mr Turncloak insisted that gay activist groups will whine about it. In my posts, I said I doubt they’ll do it (homophobic character =/= homophobic show, that’s like saying Boardwalk Empire is racist for including the Klan) and if they will… Yeah, they can suck it. This show has done nothing but good to gays (well, aside from Loras being a bit of a missed opportunity, but I do hope they’ll fix that in season 5).

  63. matt,

    How is getting arrested for being gay a stereotype? To me this offers Loras something to do other than talk to Sansa about clothes (which was bad) so I’m all for it.

    And the show has given us plenty of interesting black characters- Gray Worm and Missandei (who got loads of screen time in season 4), Sallador Saan, Xaro Xohan Daxos and now Areo Hotah. He isn’t any more of a stereotype character than the others. It’s not like blacks are portrayed solely as big badass fighting dudes. They made Hotah black to help show the diversity in Dorne (and they probably changed his background and made him a salty Dornishman or whatever it’s called). The number of characters is immeasurable compared to white characters but that’s to be expected as most of the show takes place in Westeros and that one is all white.

    I should be making jokes, not writing serious shit

  64. it would be so nice if show-loras had more going on than “lol gay”
    I mean even IRL I don’t think sexuality should define who you are, and gay characters on tv are just that…. gay… really a boredom

  65. I don’t know whether this is the right place to ask but does anyone know whether there is a website or some sort of overview anywhere with Twitter and Instagram accounts of current and former GoT cast members?

  67. jentario:
    matt,
    And the show has given us plenty of interesting black characters- Gray Worm and Missandei (who got loads of screen time in season 4), Sallador Saan, Xaro Xohan Daxos and now Areo Hotah.

    ? Areo Hotah? Why the heck are you and Matt talking about him? Was there leaked footage or something like that? Because if there wasn’t, you can’t tell if Areo is this kickass new character or (which is more likely given the book description) a human stand-in for a brick wall.

    The rest of your list isn’t very impressive either to be honest. Sallador Saan is the only one I’d consider a very interesting character and he’s a tertiary character at best. Xaro was terrible, just like everything else in Dany’s season 2 arc. Missandei and Grey Worm, well they might have potential still, but the whole love-hindered story they seem to be getting is pretty boring.

  68. King Tommen,

    I remember pitching something very similar regarding Olyvar in the comments back in July when we started getting articles about the walk. Question I’m still wondering is if they’ll still have Cersei

    organise the death of the current High Septon, because he finds out about her and Lancel? Given that’s what starts all this off, will they keep it, and if so will she get Olyvar to do that too?

  69. Veltigar,

    The love story shows that D&D are trying to dedicate time to them and make them more than just empty slates (which they were in the books). On Xaro sucking, I don’t see why. Was he interesting? Not much, but I don’t think he was what made Qarth bad. He was alright.

    In any case, this complaint is equally effective in GRRM’s books. There are only a couple more black characters there and none of them are that important. Strong Belwas is a joke (albeit a fairly funny one) and Brown Ben Plumm is meh. Other than that there are a couple of ship captains and that random guy in King’s Landing which no one cares about.

    So far the show has been turning white characters black just because there isn’t enough diversity in the books when it comes to remotely important characters. To do any more would require them to deviate massively from the looks of major characters, which they obviously can’t do. Dorne allowed them the opportunity to introduce a whole black family (which WOULD be a change from the books) but they ended up casting the best Oberyn out there and setting the Martell look as Spanish.

    The only other thing the show could do is cast extremely minor and unnecessary black characters from the books, which the show can’t afford to do with it already reaching the maximum cap of characters.

  70. This scene may mean that Cersei will use Loras to avoid her wedding and also delay Tommen/Margery (it is easy to guess the reasons).
    As a matter of fact I was wondering how to translate Marg trial on the show… Tommen looks much older than in the books. If they were already married he could easily take the blame if the “Ser Pounce” scene means he likes Margery. Switching to Loras could make more sense and would make the show more contemporary than the books (as D&D have done already many other times).

    Could this make the High Sparrow looking like a villain? Yes, but I don’t think this is something bad. I read that somebody complains why in the books he looked sincerely sympathetic of the poor. And? Couldn’t he be a nice person with wrong ideas? Would he be the first in this show? Isn’t that the characteristic why GOT has so success? I mean the duality of the characters, which are never good or evil…

    By the way… Since Loras is the Tyrell’s Heir in the show this could trigger the necessity to find another horse for the Tyrell. What is D&D arrange a Gendry-Olenna meeting? Maybe there is something like that in “the winds of winter”. I can not believe that GRRM told us all the tale of the Robert Florent Bastard for nothing. And he was with Renly so the Tyrells MUST know his existence.

  71. ArgonathofBraavos:
    jentario,

    Why the hell are people preemptively attacking gay activist organizations for positions that some of them “might take” in the future, regarding a hypothetical scene of Loras being arrested for his homosexuality?

    Area Man Upset Over How He Imagines Those Damn SJWs Would React

  72. I actually like how the show has portrayed Loras as a homosexual. He always did seem a bit fancy in the books.

  73. Mine is the Furry:
    I actually like how the show has portrayed Loras as a homosexual.He always did seem a bit fancy in the books.

    my problem is that Loras his been almost exclusively defined as being gay. Gone is hit hot headedness and cockiness. His love for Renly is also diminished as he sleeps around the first opportunity he gets. Very one dimensional

  75. jentario,

    You forgot that Trystane in the books is black and the actor they casted is white. I think is a shame this happens, because it was a chance for them to have a major character black

  76. clk,

    Pretty sure it says he’s olive-skinned with black hair. But anyway…

    I wish people would get over the race thing already. It just so happens that in this fantasy medieval world the majority of the characters are white ( probably because it’s based on a part/geographic region of/in history where the majority of people were white). If you can’t watch a show that doesn’t have someone of your own race in then see ya. Personally, I don’t care what ethnicity a character is as long as they’re an interesting character and it doesn’t affect the consistency/believeability of the show. Some of my favourite films don’t feature any white people but does it ruin my enjoyment of them? Not one bit. Some people are so busy trying to not be racist they’re actually being racist…or at least ethnocentric.

  77. Dutch maester:
    https://twitter.com/Eugene_Simon/status/515426441593626624

    What should we make of this? A bit random to suddenly post this if you’ve last worked with him in 2011 (did they even have scenes together?)….

    EDIT: They had one scene together in Garden of Bones, but still.

    The two actors both recently attended Titancon in Belfast and that’s where they were hanging out. There are pictures of them clowning around. Titancon often has current and past cast members who attend so this interaction is not connected to the show filming in any way.

  78. Turncloak,

    So they made him gay. So what? The show doesn’t have the luxury to have hundreds of cavernous characters. If a viewer describes Loras as the “gay” one, who cares? He IS the gay one. Frankly I just want to be entertained for one hour a day for ten days in April-June, I could not care less about minor characters that do or do not have short tempers. But if I do get some man on man love, all the better.

  79. Mine is the Furry,

    Being gay isn’t the defining aspect of his character as someone’s sexuality shouldn’t ever be. I think the underplaying of his love for Renly (because gay guys can’t be in love only bum eachother apparently) and the fact he has pretty much done nothing except sleep with blokes has made his character a bit of a joke. If you want some man on man love then you’ve got the whole internet to cater for that. I want an interesting character doing interesting things.

  82. Mine is the Furry,

    He did in the source material but they have adapted him so that it appears he doesn’t which is what some people , myself included, are having a moan about.

    That’s quite retro. I guess they’re making a cum back.

  85. jentario:
    Veltigar,
    The love story shows that D&D are trying to dedicate time to them and make them more than just empty slates (which they were in the books).

    Yeah no. I can see your point with Grey Worm, but Missandei is an interesting character in her own right in the books. Certainly not a blank slate. Her age, her dedication to Dany’s cause, her sad backstory (e.g. the whole conversation about why she doesn’t want to go back to Naath) and the loss of her brothers made her into a well rounded character in her own right.

    The fact that D&D are trying to dedicate time to them (and you can argue about whether or not that is necessary, given the huge ammount of characters) doesn’t automatically mean they are doing a good job or have chosen the best way to go about it. Robb and Talissa got more time dedicated to them and that didn’t turn out very well, because the cheese of their storyline was hard to stomach.

    A more interesting approach for both characters would have been an examination of their increased agency. You could argue that a love story helps in that aspect, but it’s so very contrived. Of course, the only two ex-slaves with any screentime dedicated to them will automatically fall in love. How could that not happen. They could easily have chosen for just friendship, without any romantic undercurrents to that. They still might go that route in season 5, I hope they put the love story in the cooler.

    Anyway, I don’t have any real opinions about race on this show. Given the limitations of the world, it’s hard to feature more black characters at this stage. I do however disagree with your initial statement in the post I innitially replied to that the black characters we’ve gotten so far are really all that interesting (which imo is a problem, insofar that ideally, all characters regardless of race and gender should be interesting).

    jentario:
    Veltigar,
    In any case, this complaint is equally effective in GRRM’s books. There are only a couple more black characters there and none of them are that important. Strong Belwas is a joke (albeit a fairly funny one) and Brown Ben Plumm is meh. Other than that there are a couple of ship captains and that random guy in King’s Landing which no one cares about.

    True, did someone in this thread claim otherwise? Although I would like to point out that interesting character doesn’t automatically mean important character. Sallador Saan on the show is of hardly any import at all, but he’s interesting.

    I do disagree with your view of SB and BBP though. BBP is interesting, SB is pretty juvenile (and not in the awesome Tormund or Dickon Manwoody kind of way).

  86. jentario,

    Probably a troll. However, since Hotah is from the same place as Doran’s wife, he should probably look similar to Doran’s kids and vice versa (assuming that the city state has a population from a single race- which is perhaps a big assumption).

    RE Loras, while I’m not thrilled with his presenation in the show, I don’t get the argument that showing him having sex with another person means he doesn’t really love Renly. In fiction and in real life, having and losing a true love doesn’t mean that you are obligated to be celibate for the rest of your life, and if you aren’t, it doesn’t mean you didn’t really love that person.

    Re Cersei/the High Septon, as I see it, the issue is that while the High Septon is a morally complex character and well-intentioned (and should be presented as such in the show), he punishes Cersei for the wrong reasons. While she committed all those horrible crimes in the books, he didn’t make her do the Walk of Shame because of that. He did it because she’s female and committed adultery (note this is a guy who outright says that he thinks all women are whores).

  87. Veltigar,

    My point is that they’re trying. Each person has their own opinion of how successful or unsuccessful the Missandei/Gray Worm “love story” was (and it wasn’t a love story in my opinion- Missandei definitely said no). Some people actually really like it, you know. Give it time and the whole thing could make sense.

    I also think that saying Missandei’s age makes her character interesting in the books is quite odd. Aside from that, the book and show characters are pretty similar.

  88. Jordan,

    As I said, show Areo will probably have a different background. It’s unnecessarily complex to start talking about his training in Norvos when you can just say he’s a Dornishman in the show. His background in the books was lame anyway…

  89. Totally not gay related, Boardwalk Empire has been firing on all cylinders this season!!!! Truly a remarkable show and sad to see it ending.

  92. TheTouchOfFrost:
    Mine is the Furry,

    He did in the source material but theyhave adapted him so that it appears he doesn’t which is what some people , myself included, are having a moan about.

    Well that’s just hogwash. The books can add those little nuances, but the show, with all its restraints, can not. So ease up, I can think of many and far better things to make you moan. Not me personally making you moan. Unless you look like Doreah with a strap on.

  93. jentario,

    I felt each season got progessively better. I loved S3 and felt that TW did a great job in the aftermath of S2s controversial ending with moving things forward. And Gyp Rossetti is one of the greatest HBO characters ever. S4 is near perfect.

  94. jentario:
    Veltigar,
    My point is that they’re trying. Each person has their own opinion of how successful or unsuccessful the Missandei/Gray Worm “love story” was (and it wasn’t a love story in my opinion- Missandei definitely said no). Some people actually really like it, you know. Give it time and the whole thing could make sense.

    I’m more than willing to ‘give it time’. However, so far they have failed to make it in anyway interesting. I can’t assess what isn’t there.

    jentario:
    Veltigar,
    I also think that saying Missandei’s age makes her character interesting in the books is quite odd. Aside from that, the book and show characters are pretty similar.

    Her age is one of the things that makes book Missandei so interesting. You know, a child being trust in such circumstances means a wholly different dynamic then when an adult goes down the same route.

    Let’s take for example Arya, I’m pretty sure that most would agree with me when I say that, if Arya had been 23 (just a random age I picked) when her storyline started, it would be less interesting than what we have now.

  95. Veltigar,

    If you ask me, Missandei is just as forgettable in the book as in the show. Though I do think making her a child like in the books would have helped a bit. It’s just that we were discussing how race/sexuality is being used to define characters and this would be a case where age defines a character.

    Anyway, I am thoroughly bored with this discussion

    Mine is the Furry,

    Good. But I don’t know any Gyp.

  96. Mine is the Furry,

    How can personal preference be hogwash?! It’s actually been more effort to insert scenes of him boinging another guy than to just have him mope around and get pissed when Renly/Brienne/Stannis are mentioned.
    Doreah is probably pretty decomposed by now. But if you wanna put the rot in erotic then go for it!

  98. TheTouchOfFrost,

    Doreah is not dead. She devoured Ducksauce and used his bones to pick the lock in order to escape her confinement. She then met up with Talisa in Volantis for a quickie and to discuss alternative ways of using sheep’s bladders apart from as fake fetal gore.

  99. I think Loras is probably one of the worst characters in the show. Especially since Season 3. I was hoping they’d follow the books from here on out, so that we’d see some more of his military side. Oh well, I’m not even interested in his TV character enough to care much.

  101. TheTouchOfFrost,

    Joffrey did refer to it as a “perversion” which he was considering making illegal, and I’m pretty sure Tywin had a particularly homophobic scene. I think it’s something viewed as pretty awful in Westeros – aside from in Highgarden, according to Olenna.

  102. Jasper,

    But Joffrey was a particularly nasty little shit (even he didn’t seem massively outraged) and the way Jaime joked about it, it seemed like an open secret about Renly that no one really cared about. The Dornish don’t seem to care too much and I think only the more pompous areas like the Vale ( I think it may be part of the reason Blackfish was exiled) and the Riverlands would have any major problems with it and even then it seems to be tolerated.

  104. All i can say is, i definitely feel for those people who count Loras Tyrell among their favorite characters…

  105. jentario:
    Veltigar,

    The love story shows that D&D are trying to dedicate time to them and make them more than just empty slates (which they were in the books). On Xaro sucking, I don’t see why. Was he interesting? Not much, but I don’t think he was what made Qarth bad. He was alright.

    In any case, this complaint is equally effective in GRRM’s books. There are only a couple more black characters there and none of them are that important. Strong Belwas is a joke (albeit a fairly funny one) and Brown Ben Plumm is meh. Other than that there are a couple of ship captains and that random guy in King’s Landing which no one cares about.

    So far the show has been turning white characters black just because there isn’t enough diversity in the books when it comes to remotely important characters. To do any more would require them to deviate massively from the looks of major characters, which they obviously can’t do. Dorne allowed them the opportunity to introduce a whole black family (which WOULD be a change from the books) but they ended up casting the best Oberyn out there and setting the Martell look as Spanish.

    The only other thing the show could do is cast extremely minor and unnecessary black characters from the books, which the show can’t afford to do with it already reaching the maximum cap of characters.

    Excellent post! +1 🙂

  106. All i can say is, i definitely feel for those people who count Loras Tyrell among their favorite characters…

    Thank you. At this point it’s pretty clear though, that whatever role Finn Jones is playing, Loras Tyrell it is not. (Should have called him Lyara on the show or maybe Taloras).

  107. TheNorthRemembers,

    Romans and Greeks were relatively fine with it and most medieval European societies weren’t that bothered as long it was discreet and didn’t interfere with their duties in the upper classes and no one have a frig what the lower classes . They appear yo be trying to make the Faith Militant like the Inquisition which is fine but again Loras only personality trait is he’s gay. He’s also becoming a stereotype of a gay man who just wants sex whereas his character was actually a lot less shallow than that and he joined the Kingsguard for morally valid reasons so he could continue to be single and mourn Renly and not be forced into a marriage and also protect his sister (kind of mirroring Jaime).
    Not a massive Loras fan from the books but the show hasn’t really done the character any favours. For me, sending him to the Shield Islands and letting Euron kill him would be like putting down a wounded animal at this point!

  108. Turncloak,

    The issue is that Cersei is not being punished for the murders and assassinations she’s instigated nor for a host of other things she actually has done. The misogyny lays in the fact that her ‘crime’ (promiscuity) and her ‘punishment’ (shaming her) are both sexual in nature. If she were a promiscuous male, she would not be publically shamed by dragging her through the streets, that’s something about how it all goes down that is definitely gender-associated.

    (That said, yes, book!Cersei is pretty much a whole loathesome person, regardless of her gender. Still, her punishment was so closely tied to shaming her gender’s sexuality that it is sexist and cringeworthy).

  109. My problem with show Loras is that they seem to have cut everything from his character except that he’s gay. I really enjoyed his Kingsguard interactions with Jaime in the books was hoping for those interactions on screen but I guess it’s not to be.

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