New Content: What does that mean?!

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The WotW community has been fervently discussing GoT since HBO first announced that the beloved Asoiaf books would be adapted to the small screen.  Since then we have had our ups and downs but one thing is for certain, we have formed an exciting and dynamic community with a culture all its own.  As we continue to grow we hope that new visitors will not only drop in but make us their “go to” source for GoT news.  There is, however, a little bit of a learning curve when joining any online fan site and ours is no exception.  To address this issue and for the purposes of documenting a wee bit of our cultural history we have added a Lexicon to our main menu.

This new page lists in alphabetical order common acronyms, phrases, memes and other sundry bits of arcane knowledge that we created, or have referred to or continue to refer to within posts and comments.  Long-time commenters will probably read it and say, “Well duh!” or “Hey, they forgot ———!”  and that is to be expected.  New visitors will perhaps find it useful.  Either way, as long as people are informed and/or amused I’ve achieved my goal.

With that in mind, please take a gander at the new Lexicon and give us your feedback in the comments section below.  If you think of a meme, catchphrase or acronym we have missed, please let us know.  Eventually as this post fades into memory and comments die down we might add a new topic to the Forums to continue the discussion of potential Lexicon entries but for now feel free to comment here.

And remember, Always Support the Bottom!

89 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. Off the top of my head a number come to acronyms I use all the time..

      BwoB or BwB = Brotherhood without Banners
      HoBW = House of Black and White
      AA = Azor Ahai
      TPtwP = The Prince that was Promised
      CotF= Children of the Forest
      RW = Red Wedding
      PW= Purple Wedding
      QoT = Queen of Thorns
      ToJ = Tower of Joy

      Maybe the book titles as well?
      AGot, ACoK ASoS etc

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    2. We must not forget Littlefinger’s ” jet pack” of course!

      ETA:
      Damn I messed up my previous post’s sentence when I inserted a word after the fact. Should read ‘ Off the top of my head a number of acronyms come to mind that I use all the time..’
      Oh well! XD
      *Shrug*

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    3. Although they can be found at many other places already, maybe we should include the House mottos/slogans in this lexicon?

      Valar Morghulis/Dohaeris?

      The only thing I don’t really like is the new take on the “WotW” logo just for this page. I like the master WotW but I don’t like Wot (with the single W used for both Watchers and the Wall). Just keep it the same.

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    4. I’m curious to know more about the chair debate that was listed. What chair could possibly be so contentious? Does anyone have a link to the original scandal?

      Also I agree with Hodor’s Bastard regarding the logo. I too am not a fan of the single W variant.

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    5. This site and WiC have become my daily crutches to get me through between seasons. Very happy to have found both sites! Love the content and the way WotW includes the fan community with polls and little things like the Lexicon. Just wanted to say cheers to the staff. 🙂

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    6. Dame Pasty:
      Peter,
      DarthRachel,

      I think we should steer clear of “theories” that could also be spoilers like that.

      You could always just say…
      R+L=J: A popular and well evidenced fan theory regarding future events that is potentially a major spoiler. Look it up elsewhere at your own risk.

      This would probably be enough for any unsullied who come across it to know it’s not something as innocuous as say GRRM that they can google without being in for a shock. It is easily the most prominent and most often abbreviated fan theory out there and deserves some sort of mention on the lexicon.

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    7. Of the Night,

      Re: the Chair scandal….I need to update that one. I think it was way back in Fall 2010 when HBO released a photo of the Small Council table and chairs and our keen eyed commenters noticed the detail the Hand’s symbol embroidered on a chair. Some commenters felt it wasn’t right (something to do with Westeros having similar time periods to those in our world and therefore decor should supposedly match with them too).

      Do any of you “old timers” remember more details than this? Axey? (not that I’m calling you old but your bio does say you’re old….I bet you’re still not as old as I am….)

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    8. Also, I see some references to the following “gates”:

      Costumegate. Eyebrowgate. Listsgate. Snowgate….seems there were quite a few “gates”

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    9. Abyss,

      Oh, thank you! I knew someone in the community had made it but not exactly who. I will most certainly add that.

      In re: to permalinks, in this particular posts comments or all comments sections for all posts?

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    10. “Costumegate”

      I remember being really PO’d by some early released pics of the tourney. Something about Robert’s costume looking like it was made out of cheap crap. Turned out it was some weird lighting thing or something because it looks fine in person!

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    11. Dame Pasty,

      I remember something about the design of the chair having influences from several time periods (Greek columns I think, and whatever else) which looked weird to the people who knew something about it. If “Mike Chair” is still around I think he had some things to say about it.

      “Eyebrowgate” would have been about the Targaryen’s darkish eyebrows in the show. Axey brought it up in an interview with D&D and got an award for the explanation he conjured up.

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    12. Dame Pasty,

      T’was a simpler time, when the design of a chair was more relevant to discussion than which POVs will be cut. As a recovering book purist I have at least come to term’s with cutting Chett.

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    13. Herb Derb,

      Thanks, that was an entertaining read. And it does seem that chairgate wasn’t the very first gate (as stated in the lexicon) based on references in it’s discussion, so maybe it should be rephrased to ‘one of the first’.

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    14. Of the Night,

      Yeah, maybe it should actually… The only problem with that is, that before the chair we had just controversies IIRC. It’s really hard to pin point when the word gate was first used in this context… But I agree that it probably should be changed to “one of the first”.

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    15. Sometimes I see people using IB for Iron Bank and Ironborn, but I use for Iron Bank, since Ironborn is one word only.

      Others I recall:
      TWoIaF = The World of Ice and Fire
      FM = Faceless Men

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    16. The Lexicon looks fantastic. I think it’ll be a real asset for welcoming people to this community. I think that all of the abbreviations, in particular, will be very useful.

      However, I have one qualm: Is “Nodor” really necessary? I think it makes sense to steer clear of inside jokes that are only relevant to specific, short-lived events. Long standing traditions make sense, and I’m totally on board with those. Heck, if people are still saying Nodor next Spring then it would be very appropriate…but at this point (imho), it seems like other site sayings or jokes are used to convey ideas or emotions whereas Nodor is simply a reference to specific interview with Nairn and ultimately won’t matter once we see S5.

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    17. Thanks for the Lexicon! I like that (even just due to alphabetical reasons) Always Support the Bottom is at the very top of the list 🙂

      Abyss:
      A pretty complete gatelist from Lex.

      Lex’s Lexicon of Gates 🙂 He actually had forgotten a rather existential one at that instance…

      Dame Pasty: Do any of you “old timers” remember more details than this? Axey? (not that I’m calling you old but your bio does say you’re old….I bet you’re still not as old as I am….)

      It’s not necessarily age that is of matter here, Dame Pay-stee, it’s also the fact that if you remember those days, you weren’t really there… Anyhow, luckily Axey’s thoughts on the matter were recorded for feature generations to read.

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    18. One of the things I would love to see added is the “History of House Gatewatch“, as written by oldtime contributor purplejilly. (unfortunately haven’t seen posts by her since forever)

      I realize this may be a bit long, and apparently you’re not linking directly to the old site (is that a policy?), but as far as this community’s history goes, it is a true piece of art.

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    19. Dame Pasty: Of the Night,
      Hodor’s Bastard,

      Hmmm, I rather liked the single W image.

      I have to say I also don’t like the single “W” that much… But maybe you could add a second one in black, as a kind of shadow to the first one?

      Oh, and another thing that could be worth adding to the Lexikon is “sexposition”.

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    20. You could add things GRRM says in interviews:

      The human heart in conflict with itself = The only thing William Faulkner said was worth writing about in his Nobel Prize acceptance speech, and what GRRM quotes when he is asked about writing in the fantasy genre.

      Aragorn’s tax policy = GRRM thought Tolkien did not focus on the real world details of his kingdoms, for example, how hard it is to rule. He often then says, “What was Aragorn’s tax policy?”

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    21. Great idea Wondering if you might also add suggestions for navigating the site – home vs forums, how to post and how to use the code links, and other suggestions that might be common knowledge to some but would have newbies scratching their heads (I remember having trouble figuring out what happens to old posts and thinking that once they were gone you couldn’t comment any more. )

      I don’t like the new logo. The old one looks much classier.

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    22. Tar Kidho:
      ….another thing that could be worth adding to the Lexicon is “sexposition”.

      +1 for sexposition…GoT added it to the cultural zeitgeist and vernacular (for better or worse)!

      Also,
      SanSan!

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    23. Thanks for doing this. One more question- what is the “honeypot theory” or whatever? I know it involves Lady T- but I never got the specifics.

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    24. “Stannis!”

      (like “Hodor!” – the driving need people have to shout that in comments sections. Shouted by the “Stannis the Mannis” supporters who admire his hardass-who-gets-results-and-plays-by-his-own-rules-with-iron-determination attitude. Specifically inspired by an in-TV show moment, when Joffrey is being accosted by the starving crowds of the city’s poor (right before one throws a cowpie in his face, sparking off a riot)….and people are shouting things at Joffrey like “Bastard!” and “Monster of Incest!” and someone shouts “Stannis!” — this is even a book moment, actually, though in the books various people shout the names of different rival kings: “Stannis!” or “Robb Stark!” “The Young Wolf!”, and some even pathetically moan/shout “Renly!” (even though Renly is dead by that point and they know it – they’re shouting essentially “We wanted Renly more than you!”) Eventually they just degenerate into shouting “Bread!”…I do go on…)

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    25. Sloanzilla:
      Thanks for doing this. One more question- what is the “honeypot theory” or whatever? I know it involves Lady T- but I never got the specifics.

      Long story short, pretty much everyone hated the change from “Jeyne Westerling” in the books to “Talisa” in the TV series – by which I mean *every* major critic, reviewer, everyone. Any measurable reaction, not just “internet chatter”. It was very poorly written.

      So as Season 2 progressed, and into the break between Seasons 2 and 3, this theory developed in multiple places independently that “No one is this naive and badly written; no one has this stilted of a personality. She has to be a spy faking it to lure Robb into destroying his alliance with the Freys, and this is just a big change the TV series is making, because Robb did this on his own initiative in the books.”

      Probably the biggest spark to this was the show itself: at one point in Season 2 Robb encounters Talisa in the war camp as she is writing a letter and he asks what she’s writing, and she says point blank, deadpan, “Well, I’m a Lannister spy sending reports back to Tywin Lannister on your army movements.”…..Robb reacts like she’s joking. The old “honeypot trap” as it is called, enemy spy seducing the protagonist.

      But particularly with her delivery, we thought it might be a wink at the audience, you know like an in-universe “purloined letter” thing; hide in plain sight by saying “maybe I’m a spy” (You know like what in a time travel movie, someone will jokingly tell someone in the past, “well, I know this because I am a time traveler from the future” – and the past person thinks they’re joking)

      But many other little things here and there just didn’t add up: particularly…how the hell is “Talisa” stupid enough that she can’t find Winterfell on a map of Westeros? It’s one of only seven regional capitals! It’s marked clearly on a map of the north! How could she spend months with Robb and never ask where Winterfell was on a map?! There are other little details.

      But then it turned out she died at the Red Wedding and apparently wasn’t a spy. You see in the books, Jeyne Westerling’s *mother* planned to betray Robb, even though Jeyne and her brothers had no idea about it (to the point that she had been slipping contraceptives into Jeyne’s food to make sure she wouldn’t conceive an heir for Robb). So maybe they just condensed it.

      Fire and Blood (Axe Chucker) is going to make a lengthy video about this in the future.

      But I think that Westeros.org’s Elio and Linda summed it up best: the fact that SO MANY people, many of them major professional critics or fansite runners, honestly believed in the honeypot theory………honestly *believed* that Talisa’s *entire character and personality* was a facade and a lie……..sort of underscores just how poorly received the writing changes for this character were.

      NO ONE thought that changing Jeyne to Talisa was a good idea: the entire reason her name is different is because Martin complained that Benioff and Weiss had changed Jeyne so much that she was an utterly different character, so they should do the token dignity of flat-out calling it a different character. We think Benioff and Weiss just got enthralled with their own change…just because it was “theirs”. They insist it was the height of brilliance though.

      But the lasting lesson of the honeypot theory is: “Talisa was so poorly written that a significant portion of the viewers and critics thought she was a complete fake, a spy badly acting a false persona.”

      Heck, even Bryan Cogman was asked about it after Season 3 ended: he denied that they ever considered her being a spy, but in retrospect said that from the perspective of regular viewers, yeah it did sort of seem like they were hinting she was a spy.

      Fire and Blood (Axechucker) has a theory that maybe Benioff and Weiss *originally* did indeed plan to make her a spy (and never told Cogman)….but then chickened out. The result being that her writing was inconsistent and all over the place, going up blind alleys of abandoned subplots. Though *even so*, Benioff and Weiss still insist it was “a brilliant change!” and “the TV show is just different from the books!” — look, there’s a difference between “we had Loras speak some dialogue a minor character gave in the books” and “we did not adapt Jeyne Westerling very well”. I mean, their SDCC comment about Tysha that “the TV show is just different, but we’ll always have the books”…oh how cliched is that?! They’re denying the *entire concept* of “judging their ability and skill at Adaptation.”

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    26. Sloanzilla,

      The Lannister honeypot theory simply posits that Lady Talisa is a Lannister Spy. Like Bronn, she is often seen doing vaguely suspicious things, like writing letters in a language no one could read and then hiding the letters when people approached. Here is a helpful video:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsTVnZm9hFg

      A honeypot is term that means a spy that uses sex to blackmail or kill agents.

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    27. Sloanzilla,

      Ah yes…the honeypot…called “theory” merely because it has never been officially proven, but does it really need to, since it is clearly 100% irrefutably true?

      The general idea comes from the concept of a “honeypot” which is a term for a spy whose mission is to seduce the target to gain information or assassinate them. The idea is that Talisa is a Lannister plant meant to seduce Robb in order to gain info or to facilitate his death.

      Our dear Bryan Cogman immortalized this theory when he answered a ~concerned party~ (some rando tbh) in a WiC ‘writer answers reader questions’ post. According to Bryan, he could see how someone might think the theory was true based on watching the season back.

      While much high quality, legit speculation has been produced by dedicated fans, this video really nails down how this was a highly plausible theory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsTVnZm9hFg

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    28. The Dragon Demands,

      Hey, she could still be a spy, taken care of by Tywin because she was pregnant. I am one of those who still like the theory exactly for the reasons you say: it retroactively improves the writing for the Talisa subplot. I will hold onto it until the show directly contradicts it.

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    29. The Dragon Demands,

      Geezus, tell us how you really feel. Talisa is the worst thing that the show ever wrote, but there were legitimate reasons for the change in character, namely the need to cut out her other family members to save on budget. Jeyne of the books doesn’t work without also casting her family, and going into the whole backstory of them being Lannister bannermen.

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    30. Tar Kidho,

      I would guess we’d have to do some revisionist history, because an arranged-marriage gone-wrong allowed some giants to whimble on into castle Wykknet and gradually take over, not supporting the bottom and all, forcing a break, where the true heirs of House Gatewatch had to flee and take the black at the Wall, luckily followed by a loyal band of followers.

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    31. Just an FYI… The logo used on this post was just something we were toying with when we decided to create the site. Obviously, it was eventually improved. There are about 100 we tested that we may pop up from time to time just for the hell of it. But the one on the sidebar could be considered official.

      And I know nothing of honeypots.

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    32. The Dragon Demands: Long story short, pretty much everyone hated the change from “Jeyne Westerling” in the books to “Talisa” in the TV series – by which I mean *every* major critic, reviewer, everyone.Any measurable reaction, not just “internet chatter”.It was very poorly written …

      [Insert intervening seven paragraphs here]

      NO ONE thought that changing Jeyne to Talisa was a good idea: the entire reason her name is different is because Martin complained that Benioff and Weiss had changed Jeyne so much that she was an utterly different character, so they should do the token dignity of flat-out calling it a different character. We think Benioff and Weiss just got enthralled with their own change…just because it was “theirs”. They insist it was the height of brilliance though.

      [Insert remaining three paragraphs here]

      Ummmm … OK. I don’t want to divert a thread that’s supposed to be dedicated to a light-hearted discussion of the amusing Lexicon that’s been cultivated by this community over the past few years … but this merits a response.

      The Dragon Demands … I respect how strongly you obviously feel about this particular issue. But when it comes up in future discussions, please consider the idea that no matter how many times you reference every critic, every fansite (Yes, I know that you’re an administrator for the GoT Wiki), and SO MANY viewers, you are ultimately speaking for yourself … and only for yourself. Please don’t presume to brand a fandom as vast and diverse as the one devoted to this world and these characters with such casual uniformity.

      I love the ASOIAF novels. I’ve read them several times. I love the TV show based on them. I’ve watched it several times. And guess what? Personally, I didn’t mind Lady Talisa Maegyr. Hell … I even liked her at times. Was she my favorite character who is primarily an ‘original’ creation for Game of Thrones? No, she wasn’t. But her existence (and her ultimate lack of subterfuge) never once detracted from my enjoyment of the show, and I thought that the lovely and talented Oona Chaplin did a fine job with the role as it was written. Unlike this vast (and, at least as far as I know, unconfirmed) majority of critics and viewers that you cite with such authority, I never truly believed the theory that Talisa was a ‘honeypot’. Did the possibility cross my mind when I was watching Seasons 2 and 3? Sure it did! But the revelation that she ultimately wasn’t a spy did not inspire me to rail against Benioff and Weiss for being poor writers, nor did it prompt me to condemn them for willfully deceiving me with misleading clues. When Talisa met her brutal and tragic end in ‘The Rains of Castamere’, I (once again, I’m speaking only for myself here) was focused on the horror of what I had just witnessed, and not on the idea that I was being cheated in some way because her character didn’t live up to my expectations.

      I have absolutely no problem with being in the minority on this issue, if that is indeed that the case (and it probably is). I just hope that you and everyone else are willing to acknowledge the possibility that such a minority might actually exist. And if tolerating and at times even liking such a ‘poorly written’ character as Talisa somehow renders my appreciation of both ASOIAF and Game of Thrones less valid in your eyes … then so be it.

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    33. I’m glad you guys like the feature 🙂
      There is a tonne of abbreviations that the entire fandom uses, I think we’d first and foremost like to concentrate on those specific to our little community. Those are special 🙂

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    34. Dogs:
      Tar Kidho,

      I would guess we’d have to do some revisionist history, because an arranged-marriage gone-wrong allowed some giants to whimble on into castle Wykknet and gradually take over, not supporting the bottom and all, forcing a break, where the true heirs of House Gatewatch had to flee and take the black at the Wall, luckily followed by a loyal band of followers.

      Hehe, very true… But that shouldn’t be a problem at all – isn’t history always written by the victors? 😉 Purplejilly, if you’re still lurking and somehow made it to the Wall: come back and finish the story for us!

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    35. Talisa wasn’t “universally hated”. Just “loudly hated”. I’m with Jared – she worked fine for me in the context of the show.

      This “everyone knows… everyone agrees that…” logical fallacy is kind of embarrassing.

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    36. The Dragon Demands,

      Wow, tell us how you really feel. I liked Talisa, and I didn’t have a problem with her (and the various theories about her) at all. Don’t get the extreme negative reaction, and I doubt everybody agrees with your opinion.

      The honeypot theory is a valid one – Talisa may have been a spy for the Lannisters/and or Boltons, and was just gotten rid of along with Robb and Cat, since she wasn’t useful anymore (maybe she turned?). With Talisa dead, she can’t reveal anything – plus no more pesky new Stark heir to deal with. Also a nice way to cover their tracks. What I like about these various theories is there’s just enough evidence to support all sorts of interpretations. In the end, Talisa could just have been an ordinary outsider and unfortunate casualty of the whole thing.

      Back on topic, has “Nosegate” been mentioned?

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    37. Jared,

      Wrong again. She’s not dead. There was a sheep’s bladder duct taped to her stomach. And I don’t need to list every critic or fansite to prove that. Nanny nanny poo poo.

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    38. Jared: The Dragon Demands … I respect how strongly you obviously feel about this particular issue. But when it comes up in future discussions, please consider the idea that no matter how many times you reference every critic, every fansite (Yes, I know that you’re an administrator for the GoT Wiki), and SO MANY viewers, you are ultimately speaking for yourself … and only for yourself. Please don’t presume to brand a fandom as vast and diverse as the one devoted to this world and these characters with such casual uniformity.

      Hardly. What, the old fall-back defense of “you can never truly speak for every last fan down to the millions who watch it at home?”

      That’s why I stressed “every measurable reaction” such as fansite leaders and major critics.

      Well, for citation, how about that roundtable discussion held a while back: http://www.coronacomingattractions.com/news/game-thrones-season-3-roundtable-part-2

      In which reps from Westeros.org, WiC.net, and TowersOfTheHand all said that Talisa was not done well?

      This is “measurable”, not pouting that “I believe this strongly”.

      I *will* say that this was purely a writing problem, and I really liked Oona Chaplin myself, she performed as best she could with the material given.

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    39. The Dragon Demands,

      That was a revolting post, can’t believe I read most of it. Where do Benioff and Weiss say it was a “brilliant change”? You keep quoting that as if they said the exact words in an interview. And it would be completely unprofessional to write “Talisa was a bad change so people thought she was faking it” in the Lexicon. Get over it already- she’s dead and that whole storyline is dead with her. Can’t say I liked it (it was the only change the show has done so far that I find completely pointless), but your post is way exaggerated.

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    40. jentario,

      This. Talisa’s worst scenes were Vanessa Taylor-written ones actually and she had her moments like her Volantis story. Oona Chaplin was nice to have around anyways.

      Felt Pelt,

      Excellent stuff! I can’t wait to see the whole set.

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    41. How about Littlefinger’s transporter – refers to the ridiculously unlikely speed with which Littlefinger seemed to travel over huge distances in a short amount of time in season 2. Also used when other characters travel over long distances in a very short time that seems very unlikely (e.g. Yara in season 4).

      SanSan has already been mentioned; oddly enough, I can’t think of any other popular portmanteau ship name? Except Nedbert and Throbb for the Ned/Robert and Theon/Robb slash pairings.

      There are also a bunch of abbreviations that are spoilery for the Unsullied:

      LS – Lady Stoneheart
      UnCat – undead Catelyn; see Lady Stoneheart
      JonCon – Jon Connington
      fAegon – fake Aegon (Young Griff, if the poster believes he is not really Rhaegar’s son)
      fArya – fake Arya
      ToJ – Tower of Joy
      unGregor, Gregorstein, Frankengregor – Ser Robert Strong, under the assumption he is an undead version of Gregor Clegane
      HS – High Sparrow

      theories:

      R+L=J
      Cleganebowl
      Jojenpaste
      A+J=T
      A+J=J+C or A+J=C+J

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    42. Darquemode:
      Off the top of my head a number come to acronyms I use all the time..

      BwoB or BwB = Brotherhood without Banners
      HoBW = House of Black and White
      AA = Azor Ahai
      TPtwP = The Prince that was Promised
      CotF= Children of the Forest
      RW = Red Wedding
      PW= Purple Wedding
      QoT = Queen of Thorns
      ToJ = Tower of Joy

      Maybe the book titles as well?
      AGot, ACoK ASoS etc

      LF = Littlefinger

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    43. The Dragon Demands:

      But the lasting lesson of the honeypot theory is:“Talisa was so poorly written that a significant portion of the viewers and critics thought she was a complete fake, a spy badly acting a false persona.”

      Heck, even Bryan Cogman was asked about it after Season 3 ended:he denied that they ever considered her being a spy, but in retrospect said that from the perspective of regular viewers, yeah it did sort of seem like they were hinting she was a spy.

      Fire and Blood (Axechucker) has a theory that maybe Benioff and Weiss *originally* did indeed plan to make her a spy (and never told Cogman)….but then chickened out.The result being that her writing was inconsistent and all over the place, going up blind alleys of abandoned subplots.

      What that theory wouldn’t have explained though, is why Robb was also so badly written in his scenes with Talisa.

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    44. Felt Pelt,

      Amazing! Love it

      Greenjones,

      Yeah! This news implies that the internal set isn’t done. So we should hear about Tom Walschia as soon as Maisie returns to Belfast. The set must look amazing. I hope they keep the Stranger statue and the poison pool and the death beds. I’m glad that D&D seem to be Braavos fans since a lot of people aren’t for some reason

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    45. Greenjones,

      Oh and let me add that I don’t get the Vanessa Taylor hate. Yes, it’s pretty stupid that she didn’t read the books, but she wrote The Old Gods and the New which was perhaps the second best episode in season 2.

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    46. jentario:
      Greenjones,

      Oh and let me add that I don’t get the Vanessa Taylor hate. Yes, it’s pretty stupid that she didn’t read the books, but she wrote The Old Gods and the New which was perhaps the second best episode in season 2.

      I disagree with that. It’s the episode that ends with “WHERE ARE MY DRAGONS?!” The rest of the episode isn’t particularly impressive, with the exception of the King’s Landing scenes and ser Rodrik’s execution. The Jon/Ygritte stuff is somewhat annoying after a while (and it takes a really big portion of the episode), Arya hiding from Littlefinger is silly, and Osha sleeping with Theon was completely unnecessary and seems to exist just out of the show’s love for the trope of women using sex to manipulate men, and the wish to have a naked Natalia Tena in her role as the unlikely groomed and shaved wildling.

      It may not be the worst season 2 episode but it’s also not among the best. Though most of them were a mixed bag, with the exception of Blackwater; I’d still say What Is Dead May Never Die was the second best season 2 episode, with some pretty strong Theon scenes and a surprising lack of annoying and badly written scenes that season 2 tend to suffer from.

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    47. To all,

      Remember we’re not doing a full GoT wiki so we don’t need to get crazy with every acronym. So I second Marko’s suggestion that we stick to things that are more specific to our community. So from what you’ve all told me so far, what would those be? Help me winnow them down.

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    48. To All, thank you for all the positive feedback and “bottom support”. So far I’ve been working diligently behind the scenes, so to speak, and this was my first content contribution. I was tad nervous. I’m very glad y’all like it.

      Flora Linden,
      No, I guess we didn’t mention Nosegate. It shall be added to the list of Gates. Thanks.

      Mine is the Furry,
      We had an internal discussion about that site and decided to ignore it’s existence since the community really hasn’t changed even if the URL’s have. 🙂

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    49. Dame Pasty,

      I think the lexicon is fine as it is (but a list of gates would be fun). If anything I would delete things from it like “Fat Pink Mast” (self-explanatory in context ;), “BCog ” (not really used all that often, imo) and “Only Cat” (never really seen it here, tbh).

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    50. Abyss:
      Dame Pasty,

      I think the lexicon is fine as it is (but a list of gates would be fun). If anything I would delete things from it like “Fat Pink Mast” (self-explanatory in context ;), “BCog ” (not really used all that often, imo) and “Only Cat” (never really seen it here, tbh).

      I fear the deletion of “Fat Pink Mast” could send dear Furry into therapy!

      Thanks for all the hard work, Dame Pasty.

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    51. Dame Pasty,

      I would definitely NOT add any spoilery theory acronyms or acronyms phrases that in the books but have not and will not appear in the series. I don’t think many phrases (Fat Pink Mast, Myrish Swamp, Meereenese Knot, etc) need to be included at all personally. Maybe just a couple like “Sexposition” and Littlefinger’s “jet pack” could make the cut.

      I would add all the “Gate” issues and all the book titles including GoT being the show title vs AGoT being the first book.

      After that just a dozen or so like..
      3EC = Three Eyed Crow
      AA = Azor Ahai
      TPtwP = The Prince that was Promised (Maybe not?)
      BwoB or BwB or Bw/oB = Brotherhood without Banners
      CotF= Children of the Forest
      HoBW or HoBaW or HoB/W= House of Black and White
      HotU = House of the Undying
      KG = King’s Guard
      LF = Littlefinger
      NW = Night’s Watch
      PW= Purple Wedding
      QoT = Queen of Thorns
      RW = Red Wedding
      ToJ = Tower of Joy (Maybe not?)

      I think much of the rest seems like inside jokes that apply to the books more than the TV series itself…. Hope that helps.

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    52. Bran can be out.
      In this interview from today he says:
      ‘They’re shooting season 5 at the moment’ he said, ‘I haven’t got anything in the pipeline at the moment . It’s really sort of school at the moment. I’m focusing on that.’

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    53. Mine is the Furry,
      Well, you like to release the kraken quite a bit but I’m not sure that Rygar’s Kraken is a site cultural meme. I know, I know, you’re a fookin legend…..in your own mind /just kidding, of course

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    54. Annara Snow: What that theory wouldn’t have explained though, is why Robb was also so badly written in his scenes with Talisa.

      I’m sorry I was yelling.

      Yes, it was the whole trifecta of Robb/Talisa/Catelyn throughout Season 2 diverged from the entire point of their subplot in the books. And diverging isn’t bad in and of itself: badly diverging is. They weren’t too bad in Season 3 at least.

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    55. Thanks for the Talisa responses. My only internet GOT involvement recently has been to read Hibberd’s blog, so this is all new to me.

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    56. Tar Kidho,
      Hope no offense was taken re: age….I meant “those of you who were here before I was, since the early days”. And I have read all your contributions so far…thank you for the links they will be VERY helpful!

        Quote  Reply

    57. ash,
      That’s a good idea and something I’d already considered but it’s more along the lines of the FAQ. So that’s where we’d add your particular site help suggestions. Thanks!

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