Maisie Williams hints at the Game of Thrones endgame and talks about her post-Thrones plans.
In an interview with TimeOut, 19-year old Williams discussed the upcoming seventh season of Game of Thrones and described it, albeit vaguely, as the beginning of the end.
“It’s just kind of tumbling now,” she said. “We’ve come to the climax and it’s rolling down to the end. It’s exciting. I really felt like at the end of last season everything was set up for how it was going to end. Every character came to a little junction in their lives. Now we’re all going to crash down together to however this show ends.”
She also added that season 7 will end on “A huge cliffhanger.”
In the event that Arya survives into season 8, Williams said she plans to get a tattoo to commemorate the accomplishment.
‘There are rumors that if you make it from season one to season eight there’s a tattoo that we all get,” she said. “We’re all waiting to see if we do make it. I was lucky enough to be in season one, even the pilot episode. If I do make it to season eight I will get it. It would be rude not to!”
Williams said the prospect of a post-Thrones life is “scary” but also exciting.
“I’ve felt restricted at times in my career so far,” she admitted. “Restricted in my own life and my career, because there’s six months of the year every year that are taken up shooting this TV show. I don’t mean restricted in a negative way. It’s just pretty honest.
“It’s quite exciting now Game of Thrones is coming to an end because it means I can do whatever I want. If I want to go away for three years and travel the world I can. I can do anything. I can financially do whatever I want to do and physically will not be tied into anything. I’ve never had that.”
I already see the controversy coming miles away.
Make it a good one! ?
Can’t wait to see all the characters who have either been separated in S1 or who have never met all come together, it’s gonna be amazing to see.
Blood pressure rising!
Wight armies pouring through a breach in the Wall would be the obvious cliffhanger ending for S7.
The Wall’s gonna fall.
I think the ending is pretty obvious even for unsullied.
I still remember before they officially announced how many seasons were going to be,people were speculating 10-12 seasons,lol,like the actors would have ever agreed to that shit .
Yep. For sure.
Also,
Hmm.
Gustav Rodriguez,
I don’t ever recall seeing that ‘speculation’ but I reckon it was out there. I do remember people spitballing how the “7 books” could be broken up into seasons and coming up with or suggesting 9 or 10 seasons. Personally I hoped for 8-9 (10 episode) seasons. To be honest, during the first couple seasons I was more worried about it being canceled before the entire story could be finished than I was about the number of seasons. When topics such as this come up I always remember all of us waiting impatiently for the news of renewal. Of course by about season three there wasn’t any doubt remaining – and now they have HBO begging them for more. Funny.
IMO I think a lot of the main cast from the entire series might have a difficult time duplicating what they’re getting out of and through GoT. Most of them are very talented so they’ll have work I’m sure, movies and television like they had before and have now besides Thrones. Big, international steamroller shows aren’t all that common though. Maisie specifically… my favorite of them all and incredibly talented… I have to wonder what her future holds. Being 5′ tall doesn’t help her much. I’m glad she’s been going to awards shows and mixing it up with people. Personal acquaintances have to help some, and her bubbly personality is a good seller.
Clob,
I’m not sure what you mean about the main cast,Lena,Peter and Nikolaj were already well known before GOT,Kit and Emilia are starting to be in better movies after an initial rock start and Sophie already has the X Men movies,Maisie is the only one that hasn’t been in any “big” movie but she’s pretty young and i’m sure after she finishes the show she will have more offers .
You know something, Jon Snow,
Yes Sophie and Maisie got the same tattoo on the inside of their wrists, a date which is the same for both of them that they got the call they would be in GOT. I think though Maisie intends to get another one with the rest of the cast once S8 finishes filming.
Wait…lemme see…GRRM will announce aDoS!!!
Hypetrain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What a wonderful outlook on her life after GoT:
MW: “It means I can do whatever I want. If I want to go away for three years and travel the world I can. I can do anything. I can financially do whatever I want to and physically will not be tied into anything. I’ve never had that. ”
As someone who’s enjoyed Maisie’s portrayal of Arya immensely, I can think of no one more deserving to be able to contemplate her future and conclude “I can do whatever I want”; “I can do anything.”
But I’ll bet she doesn’t go away for three years and travel the world. She’s too socially conscious to disappear. She’ll parlay her popularity into something positive.
Though the evidence didn’t support it, I had hoped Arya would turn out to be the prophecied “Younger and More Beautiful Queen”; a Lyanna Stark 2.0 to take away what Cersei holds dear, just like Lyanna 1.0 took away the affections of Rhaegar and then Robert. *
* It’d be gross for Arya to wrest away the affections of Jamie. Besides, my far-fetched theory was/is that Dany entices Jamie away from Cersei. Don’t laugh. I know Brienne deserves the hot guy. But at the post-RR siege party, after Bronn noticed that Jamie wasn’t interested in the attractive serving girl making eyes at him, Bronn asked, “Not blonde enough for you?”
And of course, the irony of Dany winding up with the “Kingslayer” of her father would be a fun twist.
Okay. Digression over. Tin foil to be recycled.
Oh, and good to know that Arya makes it to Season 8. That was my impression from the tenor of the interview. Besides, from multiple hints in S5 and S6, she’s got a lot of catching up to do with Sandor.
Flayed Potatoes,
Yep, I think the ending of season 7 was pretty clear to most people even before the “leak”; it had been speculated ad nauseam: Wall falls, the invasion by the Others begins, cut to black and the wait for the 8th season…
I have a strong feeling that our Maisie will continue to forge her path through projects that interest her, likely outside of the ‘Hollywood’ circuit. Judging by what she’s done so far, I can see her as having a long and successful career (perhaps mainly in the UK or crossover as she seems to choose less cookie-cutter roles for young women.) I can imagine her being an actor that you see a few decades from now and think “Wow – she’s been in a lot of great films!”
Gustav Rodriguez,
I suspect that Maisie will eschew Hollywood stardom and focus on indie films. As much as I’d like to see her in big-budget action movies (think Arya with a machine gun and grenade launcher), I’m guessing she will want to be regarded as a serious actress; and I doubt she will be interested in playing the “perky girlfriend”, no matter the size of the paycheck. Nor does she strike me as someone who yearns to be starlet and date boy band singers. (Sorry Sophie. ?). If, as she said, she’s financially secure, she won’t need to sell out.
# Team Arys
Pigeon,
Hey! We said pretty much the same thing about Maisie’s career trajectory.
PS Have you seen her in that “indoor black spots” commercial spoofing celebrity-endorsed skin care infomercials ? Showcases her natural talent and range, and that she doesn’t mind poking fun at herself.
Wonder what the Season 1-8 “survivor” tattoo will be? What’s the negative form of Valar Morghulis?
George,
NO LEAKS TALK. Please. ?
George,
spoiler tag !!!
You know something, Jon Snow,
Both of them got it, but the way they’ve talked about the tattoos has me wondering again if Sansa is long for this world.
The tattoo should be “I made the eight”, obviously…
corinnestark,
I agree. Sansa’s on the bubble.
I’ve said it before: The tattoos Sophie and Maisie got several months ago to commemorate the day they were both cast indicates the end of Sansa’s — and Sophie’s — involvement. Otherwise, they would get tattoos before or after S8.
As I outlined in a previous post (discussing what I called Sansa’s “karmic debt”), I feel there’s been foreshadowing that Sansa will find herself in a situation where she has to choose between saving herself, or sacrificing herself for the greater good — and she will choose the latter: a heroic death.
Massive cliffhanger? I bet it is this one:
Greyhand Stonefeather,
NOOOOO!!!!!
As for Maisie… I think she has a long and beautiful career ahead of her, whatever form it takes. Most of the actors in GoT have made it “outside Hollywood.” I’m reminded of Kate Winslet and her first film, Peter Jackson’s stellar Heavenly Creatures; I thought to myself, “I have no idea who she is, but she’s going to be a huge star someday.” And sure enough, she became one. Other than Titanic, she really hasn’t done any other blockbuster-type movies. But my goodness, what a body of work. Living proof that one can, given talent, individuality, and that intangible “it,” make it for a long time on the silver screen.
Gustav Rodriguez,
Well… I’m not talking about being well known or what have you as much as referring to the level of projects, the programs they’re involved in. I’m referring to main, lead roles in blockbuster movies. Projects in the future that stop people from seeing them surprisingly and saying, “hey, there’s X from GoT,” and having them mentioning they got their start from GoT instead. Yes, a handful of them have been involved in some high profile things but not necessarily huge for themselves. I know what they’ve been involved in and I don’t think anything has put the spotlight on them individually like the Emmy record setter that is GoT. I dont want to dig too deep into it but I’m kind of suggesting that many of the cast may end up doing projects pretty much on par with what they have been. I think almost all of them are extremely good on GoT so we’ll see if we can get a couple shooting stars. Ol’ Daenerys may be getting the biggest/best roles at this time.
I won’t mention one name that I don’t expect to blow up despite all of the excessive efforts by others… That’s just opening a can of worms.
Sorry, I’d like to write more specifically and clearly but I’m on my phone and that’s not preferable. I’ll follow up later if necessary.
I believe that the hints in that first Maisie Williams comment
Maisie does have a habit of hiding things in plain sight, so I also wonder if “tumbling” and “cliffhanger” should be taken literally – but then again, she could be referring to the denouement of her own S7 storyline.
Perhaps in preparation for her post-Thrones career, she has been taking on a large number of roles recently – in addition to the recently-released Book of Love and iBoy, she will be:
* appearing in a supporting role in Mary Shelley biopic “A Storm in the Stars”, due out this year
* voicing the lead female character in Aardman animation film “Early Man” alongside Tom Hiddleston and Eddie Redmayne, both names to be reckoned with – due early 2018
* playing the lead female role in “Stealing Silver”, which appears to be a short film
* and has begun filming, as the lead, an adaptation of the YA zombie novel “The Forest of Hands and Teeth” … though the filming status of that one seems a bit mysterious at present
So even if none of these scream “blockbuster” (although Forest could have that potential, especially if it leads to a franchise), she is gaining experience in a wide range of genres, which will come in handy both for her future acting career and her directing ambitions.
Finally, I would be surprised if we don’t see her again on Dr Who at some point. But in what capacity??
If there is a cliff hanger then the logical place must be the White Walkers breaching the wall as surely that has to happen next season (many thought it would end last season).
The were also dubious rumours
. Note. I have used spoiler tags even if this rumour is just something I read on a fan based forum and nothing more.
Clob,
I said this in the other post about Kit, but it’s going to be so interesting to see what especially the younger cast decides to do after GoT is finished. It’s not just about finding these big blockbuster movies, because I think it will take time before anyone doesn’t think of them as their character. Emilia might have it easier considering that she doesn’t really look like Dany, compared to say Kit who is Jon Snow everyday.
Anyway, they all seem to have different goals, I don’t follow Maisie all that closely, but from what I’ve seen her do so far, she’s been doing smaller maybe more character oriented films? But she maybe wants to change that when she’s free to do what she wants.
Kit has said several times that he’s not interested in doing the Hollywood thing which I think he’s shown with doing different work (film, tv, stage, writing, producing) even though he’s going to be in Xavier Dolan’s next movie, but that’s not really a blockbuster. On the other hand Emilia seems to want to go to Hollywood and has been succesful in getting roles, so I hope it will continue.
I have no idea about how Sophie’s career might pan out, I think it depends on how the movies she’s made outside of X-men does, and how she performs in them. Isaac is the real wild card, like what is his plans for the future? Will he even continue acting or is there something else he wants to do? He’s not finished with school yet, right?
I think a lot of the supporting cast members will stay in the UK, like John Bradley and Alfie Allen, and I hope they get to work together at something again! I would love to see Kit and John do a comedy together, but who knows if that will happen. 🙂
One actor who shows astonishing range outside Game of Thrones is Gemma Whelan, whose recent roles outside GOT include saucy chat show host Chastity Butterworth, Shakespearean sitcom maid Kate (“Upstart Crow”), an unfortunate victim of a homicidal fetus/expectant mother combo (Alice Lowe’s very black comedy “Prevenge”), and her latest role in BBC crime drama “The Moorside” – from this:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPa6NL1jgb4/?taken-by=gemwhelan
to this:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPnOdhNhPoF/?taken-by=gemwhelan
to this:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPxKHFqB-CA/?taken-by=gemwhelan
Even if say Sansa dies in the books, D&D don’t have the guts to kill her on the show because of the backlash they got in season 5.
Agree – it will be an amazing pay-off for both the audience and the actors. We have already started to see long-standing characters meeting to an extent, with Daenerys crossing paths with Tyrion in season five and Theon in season six. Bizarre to think that given the size of the cast, in six seasons only Tyrion and Theon have met both Jon and Daenerys! I’m intrigued to see who will make it through to season eight from the original pilot cast.
With the vast reduction in the recurring cast in season six, we are kind of back where we were in season one – though with a few additions; we started off then with Stark-Lannister-Targaryen-Baratheon and now the action is centered on the first three of those, plus the Greyjoys. Plus we have the likes of Davos, Brienne, Gilly, etc., who joined the show slightly later.
Although we will only have seven episodes next season instead of the full ten, I hope that with characters crossing paths again – and the paring down of the cast – the central characters (people like Jon, Daenerys, Tyrion, Arya, Cersei and so on) will get as much screen time as they normally would. After all, if we look at season six, nobody was in more than eight episodes in that season. And although they appeared on screen together in the final scene of season six, I have to admit that I am looking forward to actual interaction between Daenerys and Varys!
I’m not sure about that, I’d be amazed if they deviate from the main plot lines and ultimate character fates in the final season.
They have always said that the how they reach the ending may differ but the final result will be the same.
Alba Stark,
Agree, I felt we were ripped off with the lack of Dany and Varys interactions. She felt betrayed by Jorah and his her BF but it was Varys he reported to so how does she feel and react to him, does she trust him due to Tyrion or is she uneasy with him. Did they have a good talk about things, we’ll never know unless it happens in the book.
I am happy about how since the cast are all gonna get together they’ll have much more screentime so they don’t have to spread it around as much and that’ll be very useful with the seasons having shorter episodes.
Jon Snowed,
If GRRM does intend to kill Sansa then D&D will kill her, I could see them waiting until the final season to kill the main cast though as I imagine a lot of people will die and people will be so overwhelmed there won’t be time for backlash.
The actor who plays Davos said at the SAG Awards that GRRM has told D&D the major plot points and character relationships. So D&D are filling in the gaps with their own creativity but the end result, big moments before, the characters end game will be the same as GRRM intends.
Flayed Potatoes,
You really think D&D don’t have the guts to kill Sansa because of the backlash from S5? Because I thought S5 was an attempt to give her more screen time, but the illogic of LF’s “plan” and Sansa’s decision to accept it, along with other narrative problems caused by shoehorning Sansa into the Jeyne Poole – Theon subplot, scrambled her character development. Still, I figure that “showcase” was intended to compensate for her early demise.
And I don’t think there will be a backlash if Sansa, after her early self-centeredness and later role as serial hostage, gives her life in an ultimate gesture of self-sacrifice. (PS: she’s my #1 Nissa Nissa candidate. Plus, she’s “kissed by fire” so maybe a plunging sword will be involved.)
I hadn’t considered this before, but now that I think of it Sansa’s got the Brienne sworn shield curse to contend with: so far, everyone she serves dies.
I agree the S5 plot for Sansa was an effort to give her more screen time by merging the Jayne Poole sub-plot. I’d also be fairly confident they are now on track with her winds arc which is most likely to support the retaking of Winterfell from the Boltons using the Knights of the Vale – no doubt it will play out differently but I think that’s where she’s heading in Winds of Winter.
Ten Bears,
Yes I really think that. Her season 6 storyline was crafted around that backlash and affected the storylines of other characters negatively.
And I don’t think there’s a Nissa Nissa in the literal sense, like most fans seem to think. Nobody is getting stabbed to make some sword because we already have lightbringers in the story in the form of dragons and Valyrian Steel swords.
Bufferzone,
Loved Maisie in Dr. Who !
If they wanted, they could make up any kind of role for her. They did it before. (The ending of her arc was completely unexpected – and spawned quite a bit of fan fiction. )
I was disappointed that after Guillermo del Toro met with her a while back and came away so impressed that he publicly announced that if Pacific Rim 2 got made, “that girl is going to get a Jaeger” — but now Pacific Rim 2 is being made and she’s not in it. (I think Karl Tanner – the fooking legend of Gin Alley – will reprise his role from Pacific Rim as the scientist. Forgot the actor’s name. )
Flayed Potatoes,
Oh, I don’t think anyone’s getting stabbed to make a magic sword either. Like lots of legends and prophecies, there are embellishments and misinterpretations.
But that doesn’t mean Sansa doesn’t get stabbed with a sword in a heroic act of self-sacrifice …..
Ten Bears,
Re Ashildr/Me – yes, the “Clashildr” ship did enjoy a brief voyage!
The Doctor does have previous for taking on the faces of people he/she knows when regenerating, but it seems to me that Peter Capaldi may be leaving Dr Who a season too early for Maisie to take up the sonic screwdriver this time round – unless either Arya doesn’t make it to Season 8 of GoT, or another actor plays the role of Arya for most of Season 8. Possibilities, possibilities…
Re Pacific Rim 2 – I understand that was directly due to scheduling conflicts.
Ten Bears,
Why would she sacrifice herself? She’s not fighting in wars. That makes no sense.
I don’t know that I feel ripped off. 610 was such an amazing episode that I wouldn’t change anything about it for the world. Had we been given a Daenerys/Varys scene in addition to the ones we got between her and Daario and Tyrion, I would have thought it maybe a bit too much in terms of pacing. I think 701 will be a good place to see them interact for the first time. Yes, we will have skipped their initial meeting, but it will still be intriguing to see how they interact and how much she trusts him. Certainly she trusts Tyrion and his judgement, and in 508 Tyrion named Varys and Jaime as the only two people he truly trusted.
One of the things I am really excited for with Daenerys is how going to Westeros and encountering Westerosi generally plays with the “alternative facts” she has been brought up with. Viserys raised her to view Varys as the Spymaster intent on killing her, the Lannisters as the brutal killers of her family and Ned Stark as Robert’s lapdog. She has now met Tyrion, who wants to help her and shares her deep hatred of Tywin – and has explained to her why Jaime killed Aerys and that Varys has schemed for her as well as against her. She is beginning to understand that the version of history she was given may not be entirely accurate, and so it will be interesting to see how what she was brought up with filters into her own impressions of the Westerosi she encounters, and how influential Tyrion is in forming them.
Season six had a lot of pay-off for long-standing viewers with scenes like Hold the Door, the Tower of Joy and the reveal on the origins of the White Walkers. I feel that as we move towards the end game and have increased interactions between characters that have either never met on screen or who have been separated since fairly early on, the audience will get a lot more pay-off. I think that when we see characters separated since season one interact, it will be great to reflect on the changes they have gone through in the interim.
Flayed Potatoes,
I just need to add my two cents about Sansa’s S6 story: as all the fandom debate reflected, some of her actions and motivations were ambiguous or inexplicable. But I ascribe that to the lingering problems in placing her in locations and situations that varied from (where I understand) she was in the book. And yes, she did affect other characters negatively; I agree with you on that.
Still, misfires are the exception on GoT. The best hitters in baseball fail 7 out of 10 times. I don’t expect GoT to bat 1.000. In GoT, for every dodgy deviation there have been five that were great. (And if, as the consensus seems to be, Dorne was a dud, they promptly pulled the plug. )
Dale Rippke,
Sir, You’ve won the internet and comments section for this article.
I came to read cool comments about the cool Maisie Williams and the cool S7 cliffhanger ending. . .and yet it’s all about Sansa again. Sansa, Sansa, Sansa. Typical.
George,
I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ll call the episode “A Dream of Spring” haha
Flora Linden,
Then why don’t you comment about the cliffhanger ending or Maisie like most of us have done? Nobody is forcing you to read other discussions.
Bufferzone,
12 perhaps? (Dr Who) she’d be a great Dr 🙂
Article about Maisie Williams – some users turn it into a lets bitch about (insert character here). It’s bloody boring now and has helped ruin a perfectly good site which used to be good for speculation and discussion. Now it’s just “whaw whaw my favourite character isn’t being placed at the forefront and given prominence over everyone.” Seriously grow the hell up.
Jack Sharpe,
yes
Jack Sharpe,
People aren’t bitching. They’re having polite discussions. You are the one who is bitching and insulting users here and adding nothing to any discussion that’s going on in this post.
If Sansa dies (please no!), I think she may push LF out of the broken tower, she was willing to do that in book and show with Joffry on traitor’s bridge; and her talk to SR about tossing bad people and her looking up at the broken tower in season 5 seems more foreshadowing then just a candle.
Bufferzone,
Co-starring with Maisie in “A Storm in the Stars” — Stephen Dillane. Yup, Arya and Stannis. As he is playing Mary Shelley’s father and Maisie her best friend, I’m hoping for some shared scenes.
Alba Stark,
Most of the things you mentioned are real facts and not an alternative fact
Lannisters did kill her family ..sure Jamie would have killed aerys for some reason but it was never about Aerys alone ..its about her entire family including aegon and rhaenys and Elia..
Varys is indeed a spy master and he is not to be trusted ..
In fact its barristan who says how KL and aerys got worse once varys arrived ..in all of the books everyone even Ned don’t trust varys ..and all of those who don’t trust him are completely justified because of his actions and ambitions..
But all this shows how changed both tyrion and varys in the show..
Flayed Potatoes,
First of all if that’s how I come off then I would like to apologise. I have a lot of crap going on in my personal life and mostly come here for discussions. Maybe I could be better in that regard and not let my real life problems affect my online stuff. Again I apologise.
In regards to Sansa I have no idea how things will pass. She could die in season eight – she might not. We have to see how the story plays out. For my money I think she could have been handled better in both show and books. Anyway I apologise again for how I may come off in comments. I just get really angry really easy ATM.
Grail King,
Very interesting! I noticed as well that there is a thing with Sansa and heights and also thought that she’d throw someone out of a window and maybe even throw herself out with this person (well, LF).
Here are some additional instances to the ones you’ve mentioned:
-she thinks about jumpimg herself while locked away in a tower in the Red Keep (book only)
-the descent from the cliff in KL when she was escaping with Dontos (book only)
-at the Eyrie, she was about to be thrown through the Moondoor by Lysa
-A quite memorable phrase, she thinks in Feast (IIRC) “The game is too dangerous and I never asked to play. One slip and I’m dead.” (book only)
-the descent from the Eyrie (book only)
-there is this story about her that Arya hears in the Riverlands that after Joffrey’s murder, she turned into a wolf with bat wings flying out of the tower window
– jumping off the walls of Winterfell (shownly)
And of course, there is all the bird imagery surrounding her…
We need a English language adaptation of Steins;Gate with Maisie starring as Kurisu Makise, she’d make an excellent Genius Girl/Tsundere 🙂
El Psy Congroo!
Dale Rippke,
LOL ???
Maisie’s choice of words “tumbling down”, “rolling down” sound like hints to me ?
keltia,
Yes, I noticed that too. Mary Shelley’s parents, William Godwin and Mary Wollstonecraft, were both remarkable figures in their own right.
Tiny Direwolf,
I’d love to see her as the Doctor, but I don’t know whether the post-Capaldi timing works out or whether Maisie would want to take on what would be an even bigger commitment straight after GoT
Jon’s Mom,
Maisie’s choice of words “tumbling down”, “rolling down” sound like hints to me
Or PTSD from the steps of Braavos.
I can hardly wait to see Maisie in the next film, although she won’t play Mary Shelley. I am simply amazed by the talent and spirit of this girl (hey, a great thespian like Charles Dance agrees with me 🙂 ) and I have watched every film in which she appears that I could find by now: Gold, Cyberbully, Falling, Book of Love, iBoy. I am always ready for more so maybe I should watch Doctor Who.
keltia,
Let’s hope William Godwin won’t burn his daughter Mary before she writes Frankenstein.
Shy Lady Dragon,
“A wooden stag, Father? For me? How sweet!”
Shy Lady Dragon,
I liked her a lot in Doctor Who, especially the first and final episodes she appeared in – and thought she was very good in iBoy. Reviewers don’t seem to have been able to get over the unlikely premise for iBoy’s superpowers (as if getting superpowers from being bitten by a radioactive spider makes sense!) or the downbeat nature of the film – “Why isn’t this film about gang violence in a council estate more fun?!”, but as someone who isn’t a fan of traditional superhero films, I found iBoy much more watchable. I haven’t seen “Gold” or “Book of Love”.
Flayed Potatoes,
That’s a stupid and unproven thing to say .
dragonbringer,
As for Varys not being trustworthy, I wonder if
I have one slight problem with that. I think that this may be connected to Bran – his being marked by the Night’s King breaking the magic of the wall like it did the magic of the cave – both of them were designed to keep the white walkers out, so I don’t see why the cave would become unsafe because Bran is there, but the wall would not.
But if the wall comes down because of Bran, what the hell is Bran gonna do next season until episode 6-7? Is he just gonna hang out north of the wall with Meera for 6 episodes?
Bufferzone,
I was hesitant because I have never watched Doctor Who, there are so many seasons, Maisie appearing in few episodes as compared to the whole and I already watch too many shows. But maybe if I start I’ll be hooked… it certainly looks like I’m going to watch it 🙂
I did enjoy iBoy, I just didn’t bother to debate the premise too much. Exactly what you said about the radioactive spider! I thought the actors played well, the story and the atmosphere were very convincing.
If you liked Maisie in iBoy I certainly recommend you to watch all her movies, she never disappoints!
Flayed Potatoes,
D an D already said they wrote the season 6 script before that scene even aired,stop giving yourself so much importance,they really didn’t care about you or any of the criticism .
Shy Lady Dragon,
Thanks! She was really good in “The Falling” and “Cyberbully” too. “Book of Love” doesn’t sound like my cup of tea, but maybe I’ll give “Gold” a go.
Gustav Rodriguez,
And you really think scripts can’t be revised? Lol that’s cute.
The scene with Jon getting trampled in the BtoB wasn’t in the script at all. Lyanna’s KITN speech was added in last minute because D&D liked what the actress did with the role. All of these have been confirmed in interviews/dvd commentaries of the episodes.
D&D initially weren’t going to kill off Doran in episode one and the actor was contracted for 4 episodes, according to an interview he gave. Obviously that changed drastically based on the feedback show Dorne got.
But keep thinking criticism doesn’t matter if it helps you sleep at night xoxo
Jack Sharpe,
I hope you find a solution to help you deal with your personal life. *hugs*
Flayed Potatoes,
Cheers. Life can be hard atm. Work is pretty dull and such. But I am feeling better. Continued writing my own little story. Or rather planning it. Nothing fantasy based – no dragons. Unless dragons fought in World War 1.
Now I am imagining Dragons raining fire at the Somme or Verdun. Suppose with all the other horrors of the war anything’s possible.
Flayed Potatoes,
You’re the one getting in a big fuss about this kiddo,not me,if they were to listen to the “criticism” they would have made 5 seasons about AFFC and ADWD ,ignore all the characters that aren’t in the books or that are but aren’t the same(Grey Worm and Missandei comes to mind)and all the bitching and moaning that has been done over the years but they didn’t because they don’t give a shit and i’m glad for that .
Flayed Potatoes,
But hey keep bitching about Jon’s storyline in season 7,i’m sure they are going to change the wight hunt just for you because you are a special snowflake .
Vally,
Thanks, and also on the additions you added.
Everyone arguing for either Sansa or Arya is silly though well written characters will cause this, as I see it the remaining Starks all have a 50/50 chance to die or survive along with Danny,the Direwolves and Dragons; my guess is if you are a Stark or a Targ and you are still tied with magic you have a higher risk of death then if your not.
If this world is to survive and magic cease to exist then Bran, Danny, Jon and Arya ( less then the others as she sent her wolf away) are at greater risk then Sansa to die though Sansa’s risk is still there with the symbolism of Lady’s death though all indications given to us that they did not create a warg bond.
Gustav Rodriguez,
Hilarious how you result to insults and picking fights when you’re in a corner. I’m not expecting them to change anything for me. It’s ridiculous that you assume that lmfao.
If they’ll have difficulties because of the weather or any accidents/delays on set, I’m sure they’ll do whatever modifications they need in order to shoot the scenes and make their deadlines. Because it’s happened before and it’s not something unique to GoT. If there’s something that causes major backlash like Dorne or Sansa (remember that even regular viewers were upset by this), they’ll change things up.
The majority of the viewers weren’t complaining about the seasons not being 100% like AFFC and ADWD lmfao. That’s just extra book purists, aka. a very, very small section of the fandom. But complaints about Dorne and Sansa’s arcs were in mainstream media outlets and were coming from many regular GoT fans (even a politician was pissed off).
Flayed Potatoes,
I guess if kiddo is really that big of an insult then maybe i was right about the snowflake thing,anyway continue living into the world of alternative facts since i heard that’s a big thing nowadays,maybe your “truth” will actually resonate with some .
Flayed Potatoes,
The Dorne thing was totally something you pulled out of your ass,most of the media didn’t even touch it,and while the Sansa part is true it wasn’t the only rape to be criticised in the show,remember Jaime/Cersei just a season ago,why didn’t that outrage stop D&D to do another rape in season 5 ?
Gustav Rodriguez,
ORLY?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2015/05/24/game-of-thrones-biggest-problem-isnt-the-boltons-its-dorne/#1a9a342c602b
http://www.vulture.com/2016/04/game-of-thrones-dorne-plot-whats-going-on.html
http://www.buddytv.com/articles/game-of-thrones/game-of-thrones-where-the-dorn-56738.aspx
And there are more articles where that came from. So many outlets have that plot on their “worst” list. Seems like you’re giving alternative facts here.
Gustav Rodriguez,
I didn’t pull it out of my ass. There are a lot of articles in mainstream publications criticizing the Dorne plot. Here’s one:
http://www.buddytv.com/articles/game-of-thrones/game-of-thrones-where-the-dorn-56738.aspx
And there are more articles where that came from. So many outlets have that plot on their “worst” list. Seems like you’re giving alternative facts here.
I don’t know what your problem is, but based on your comments here and in the latest post, you’re here to instigate and provoke, so I’ll no longer bother with you. Good day.
Flayed Potatoes,
As to the Dorne debate:
Looking at it objectively, I think it’s apparent the show runners themselves concluded the whole subplot wasn’t working and euthanized it.
1. In published remarks, an embittered Alexander Siddig (Prince Doran) complained that he had been contracted to do four episodes last season, but later was abruptly told his character would be killed off in the first one.
2. Killing Doran and his son at the season’s start indicated that the showrunners were not willing to portray Doran’s “long game” approach.
3. The Sand Snakes’ professed motive ofwas avenging the death of Oberyn Martell and Elia Martell at the hands of the Lannisters — by killing Oberyn’s brother and his soon , made no sense; it came off as rushed and contrived.
4. I wonder if a “Bad Poosy” backlash was at work. Personally, I liked Tyene’s flirtations with Bronn, but that kind of dialogue earned quite a bit of derision.
I’m not saying the Dorne plot was unsatisfactory. It appears that the showrunners themselves are, along a majority of the fandom.
Flayed Potatoes,
Sorry. Didn’t see your 2:36 pm entry before I write essentially the same thing about Siddig’s premature departure
Shy Lady Dragon,
Maisie was really good in Dr. Who. I had never watched Dr. Who before, and only checked it out on BBC America when I learned she’d be guest-starring.
I think the episodes she’s in are called “The Girl Who Died”, “The Woman Who Lived”, “Face the Raven”, and “Hell Bent” (or “Heaven Send” – whichever came later).
I may have mentioned this earlier, but if you haven’t seen it you ought to check out her commercial for a wireless phone company about “indoor black spots” – a spoof of celebrity-endorsed skin care product infomercials.
Vally,
Just wanted to let you know that your discussion of recurring imagery is the kind of intelligent, thought-provoking analysis that I enjoy reading here.
I believe there should be enough recurring themes ,foreshadowing, etc. in the 60 aided episodes to try to forecast what happens in the endgame,?and predict characters’ fates.
Flayed Potatoes,
Wow,one article suddenly means all the media ? Do you think i’m stupid and i haven’t been around when the season was airing or what,most of the reviewers didn’t really care about the Dorne plot other than the dodgy acting mention here and there,most of the complaints have been from book readers . And of course the typical bullshit “high ground” speech when you don’t have any other arguments,just admit you have nothing else to say and that’s it . Also conveniently you haven’t responded to my Sansa argument,why was it that they didn’t care about the backlash from the rape in season 4 or hell any other rape since season 1 ?
Gustav Rodriguez,
Why do I even bother?
Here’s another one: http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2015/05/24/game-of-thrones-biggest-problem-isnt-the-boltons-its-dorne/
If you bother to google you will find more. I can’t include tons of links in the comments because they get put under moderation.
The Cersei/Jaime scene: it is questionable whether it was truly consensual even in the books and the editing/direction for that scene was also a huge problem. It doesn’t make the scene ok by any means. And they obviously didn’t expect that the Sansa storyline would bring this much backlash, especially if you look at Cogman’s comments from the BluRay. I’d say it was the last straw for some viewers after putting up with so much violence against women for so long on the show. I don’t know why people aren’t as outraged over the storyline in the books, but I’d say it’s double standards because Jeyne is a tertiary character as opposed to Sansa.
didi,
Yeah I think so too but I don’t think we will see it ..even in books ..
My theory is that three treasons that dany will know is
Treason for love – joncon because of his love to rhaegar
Treason for gold – because of love of gold in westeros.
Treason for blood – varys last of blackfyre
And i wish that illyrio will tell all their plan to install YG as Aegon and how she was meant to be a pawn in the game and had to die on the dothraki sea….for Me YG will die before dany lands in westeros..
But I hope she kills this Varys using drogon..
IMHO, GRRM, in true GRRM style, will ultimately have the person least considered trustworthy in standard narratives be the most trustworthy person of all. I love Barristan (how could I not?), but Barristan is ultimately a soldier, and soldiers and spies are two distinctly different creatures. As another commenter noted on a different post, Barristan—noble as he is—ultimately stood by while the Mad King carried out his atrocities; the hated Jaime, in contrast, did not. In similar fashion, Varys—who is of a despised class and deeply distrusted profession—ultimately wants the simplest of thing: whatever is best for the realm. As different as book Varys and show Varys are in some ways, I don’t think his elemental character has been changed.
Gustav Rodriguez,
You seem like a reasonably intelligent person, but damn, there’s a lot of anger here. Lay off Flayed Potatoes. The gods know there’s enough shite going on in the world right now, what with President Bannon and his puppet Cheeto Benito trying to blow it up and shit. May I suggest a nice, reasonably-priced Scotch whisky? Cragganmore. It’s what I’m sipping right now.
Ehhh. On the one hand, I have enjoyed “Tyene’s flirtations with Bronn.” On the other, the Dorne subplot pissed me off not only because of its radical detraction from the books (which I could have coped with if it had maintained the spirit of the books, but it did not), but also because even in terms of the show narrative, the casting was off.
Confession: I really didn’t like the casting for Loras Tyrell or for the Sand Snakes (Keisha Castle-Hughes excluded), not because of the acting—which I thought was fine—but for the simple reason that, physically, they were unrealistic. The Sand Snakes are total badasses, not only with poison but with an array of weapons. That demands a physicality that, imho, called for casting either 1) professional athletes or 2) actresses who were willing to put the sort of body-transforming work that Linda Hamilton put into Terminator 2.
On that note, as much as I loved Finn Jones’s acting, I had similar issues with Loras Tyrell. The combination of brute physical strength and phenomenal balance required for jousting is pretty effin’ phenomenal, and I’m sorry, there’s no way in this world or any other where D&D’s Loras would have unhorsed D&D’s Mountain, mare in heat or not. Also: Did they really need to feminize him so much for the screen? I actually found it regressive that Loras and Renly were such cookie-cutter stereotypical gay men on the show. Gay people are as varied in their outward manifestations of gender and sexuality as straight people are. It was disappointing to me that D&D went for the stereotypes (e.g., Loras dreaming about the details of the wedding day, while Sansa cluelessly mooned over him), rather than breaking with them as GRRM did in the books.
End of rant. On another note… Where’s Wimsey? Damn, I miss the monk’s pronouncements.
Ten Bears,
Thank you! I’ll look for the commercial. About Doctor Who, my only dilemma now is to watch the whole show or only Maisie’s episodes.
Edit: Unfortunately the commercial is unavailable although I have theoretically found it.
Wolfish,
Jessica Henwick (Nymeria) was in a British kids’ programme when she was about 16 and she learned wushu for that so she can do “kick ass”. I’m sure I mentioned before that she acquitted herself well in “Silk” (a British courtroom drama) as a trainee barrister. I think she could have played a version closer to book Nymeria if the show had been written that way but for whatever reasons they totally changed the Dorne subplot.
Wolfish,
Jamie also stood beside aerys ..we just don’t have others KG thoughts about those event …its very interesting that he decided to act against king aerys after rhaegar died and his army defeated and king’s order to kill his own father ..
You know what would have been best for the realm ..if varys did his job to Robert King and served him well then westeros wouldn’t have been in this mess on the first place ..
He didn’t do his job because he had ulterior motives which relied on placing his puppet on the throne and him pulling strings ..
And his plan had many flaws because for starters you can’t make a perfect King ..and he had made the realm bled so he can place his perfect Prince on the throne ..which he will fail ..
I love conleth hill but I don’t want to talk about show varys at all ..but I do wish that show varys and tyrion stop acting like saints and morally above dany or anyone else because these two are worse than those characters
If you ask me varys is no different than LF ..at least LF is honest about his intentions and who he is while varys cowardly hides behind the good of the realm mask ..
Wolfish,
I don’t agree with your view on gay stereotyping. In a time where there are so many different gay men on screen, it’s really difficult to single out a portrayal and call it a stereotype. But if so, I would rather argue, that there is a tendency to sort of heterosexualize gay men on screen and totally go against any sort of what people would call “effeminate” behaviour. They are basically just heterosexual bros that happen to have sex with men. And I don’t like it one bit, because once again, the traditional male wins over the fag. I want more camp gay characters that are NOT only used for comic relief. That would be nice.
Loras, I found to be quite fine. He likes clothes, dreams of wedding feasts, is a good fighter, slightly arrogant high born… I don’t really see a problem…
Go Maisie, whatever you do with your life, have a ball!
I know at one point, she was considering a career in dance, rather than film or stage acting. Will be curios to see what she does! Very few of us are financially secure enough to pursue our passions without regard to whether they can pay the bills – good for her.
I love this theory too. There’s a lot of meat to it what with the fact he stabbed her dad and that in part led to her exile, etc. Plus Tyrion’s involvement with both of them.
Also it could work as a political match since basically there are only 2 guys in the 7k that are eligible marriage prospects for Dany. That is, single, have large armies loyal to them, within a reasonable age range. And we all know Jaime has to betray Cersei eventually. Would love there to be someone that Cersei at least perceives to be a threat to her & Jaime romantically.
(Though Brienne / Jaime is still otp for me. :p)
Shy Lady Dragon,
Dilemma about Dr. Who : I’d only watch Maisie’s episodes. There are backstories and references to “show” history, but nothing complicated. I did watch a bunch of other episodes before Maisie’s arc. (Peter Capaldi plays Dr Who, an immortal “Time Lord” and Jenna Coleman plays Clara, his human sidekick. It was disorienting at first to see the opening of each show: what looked like a phone booth hurtling through space: it’s the Dr’s “Tardis”, a time + space travel machine masquerading as a police call box.) The other episodes were okay. I even watched some from prior years with other actors playing previous incarnations of the Dr (time lords can “regenerate” — handy way to incorporate re-castings?.
It’s not really necessary to watch other episodes before Maisie’s, although there is an intervening episode (“Hell Bent” or “Heaven “Sent” – I forget which is which) with only Peter Capaldi that sets up the next episode that does feature Maisie
Without giving away too much, Maisie’s arc begins when Dr. Who travels back in time and space and winds up trying to help some Viking villagers. Maisie plays “Ashildr”, one of the villagers. The science fictiony stuff on Dr. Who is a bit cheesy at times, but nothing really to detract from watching Maisie or her “expressive eyes”, in the words of Lady Crane. [For future reference: “Wiggle room?”]
Re: the commercial. I saw it on YouTube. I think I had to plug in the wireless company’s name in the search box though, because just plugging in MW yields too many results. I think the company (in UK ?) is called 3G Super Mobile or something like that. It’s just a fun spoof because Maisie doesn’t mind goofing on herself.
QueenofThrones,
Re: Dany + Jamie – Exactly: there are only two eligible bachelors who’d be candidates for Dany, Here’s the other thing (hang on…lemme get that tin foil… and bear with me): As Tyrion and Shakespeare instruct [paraphrasing] prophecies can come back and bite you on the ass. Specifically, I thought the YMBQ prophecy to Cersei was that there will come another, younger and more beautiful (queen) who will “cast you down and take all that you hold dear.”
It’s not “all that you held dear” or “ever held dear.”
I remember my high school English teacher stressing how MacBeth got suckered because he assumed the witches’ prophecies meant he’d be invincible and his reign long-lasting. But the literal wording of the prophecies came true, with the opposite result.
In Cersei’s case, we know she wrongly assumed Marge was the YMBQ who’d take away her royal standing and her son(s).
But now, with Dany’s imminent arrival, what does Cersei “hold dear”? Aside from a full glass of wine, all I can think of is the throne and Jaime.
With the disclaimer that I hope I’m wrong and Brienne gets Ser Goldenhand, and my wishful thinking that Arya as Lyanna Stark 2.0 would be a neat twist, if the YMBQ is Dany, she will take Jamie away from her. (Otherwise, what else is there at this point that Cersei holds dear?)
There was a flip side to this explaining why I think Jon Snow would actually support such a union despite Jamie’s Bran-tossing, Jory-gouging, etc, but this is already too long (and I can’t edit).
Oh, one caveat: even if Dany gets Jaimie, that does not mean Arya can’t come along with Needle and stick him with the pointy end. ?
My interpretation of the prophecy has been that there is no right or wrong YMBQ and that it is more like a self fulfilling prophecy. There is only one person for whom this prophecy holds any relevance and that is Cersei. So the YMBQ is whoever Cersei thinks it is. She thought it was Margaery and acted on it and Margaery ended up taking away two of her sons from her. If she now thinks Dany is the YMBQ, then Dany automatically becomes that – for Cersei. She will act on it and bring about her own destruction.
I am not sure how this will play into any prophecy, but I feel quite certain that it will be Brienne who takes Jaime away from Cersei. It has to be, there has to be a reason for all this build-up of a potential love triangle between them and there has been zero foreshadowing for any relatioship between Jaime and Dany, books or show. Dany will probably end up taking away her power though, which means it will be 2 women who take away the 2 things Cersei holds dear at the moment. Not sure what that means for her prophecy.
P.S. I have to trust that GRRM and the showrunners will give us logical resolutions of all of the mysteries and conflicts they’ve set up.
I admit I am biased. In my heavy-duty, ultra thick tin foil world, Sandor Clegane is revealed to be Azor Ahai, and fights an epic duel with the Night King with a flaming Oathkeeper ignited by the blood he left on it in S4E10; just when things look dire for Sandor Ahai, Arya rushes in and kills the Night King with a chicken bone.
Okay. Sorry about all that. ?
One reason Dany would make some sense as the one that “takes” Jaime away is due to logistics. I am unspoiled, but as far as I can logically assume, Brienne is returning to Sansa and Cersei will be in King’s Landing, presumably Jaime will be there also. If Dany is coming to take out Cersei, and Brienne is in the North, it’s simply more likely that Jaime will betray Cersei and join Tyrion and Dany’s side, if he betrays her at all, since that’s where the opportunity is. Plus Jaime having to choose between his siblings is a huge part of his character so I have to assume we’ll be seeing that go down.
I still agree if there’s any romance with Jaime it’s more likely to involve Brienne than Dany. Dany could be a potential political alliance / betrothal and it would be rich dramatic space to explore given the Tyrion connection. Assuming Jaime goes north With Tyrion and Dany to help defend the realm (my hope?), then he can reconnect with Brienne there.
Ten Bears:
Careful what you wish for. Everyone says Arya is like her aunt Lyanna, but show Lyanna didn’t do much more than birth Jon and die. Hopefully, it’s not foreshadowing. About Jaime: A Girl has a code. Our Arya has always had justice or justification for her ‘kills’: 1) self-defense (stable boy, Rorge, unknown Lannister man at the Inn, the Waif, Amory Lorch and guards killed by Jaqen for her escape) and justice for crimes against herself or others (the Tickler via Jaqen, the boastful Frey soldier at the campfire, Polliver, Meryn Trant, and Walder Frey + sons). Her rumoured S7 action is IMO also justified by those lights. But I don’t think she knows enough about Jaime to kill him, unless she knows he killed Jory. But even that was in a fair fight. She may suspect some of Jaime’s underhandedness, but she certainly does not know he nearly killed Bran.
Stark Raven’ Rad,
Oh, I agree. There’s really nothing that portends Arya taking out Jaime (and if there were, she wouldve carved him up along with Walder Frey’s “damn moron sons” Lothar and Black Walder).
I was joking about Arya sticking Jaime with the pointy end. That was in my ultra tin foil, wishful thinking, fan fic world.
And yes, I also agree that all of Arya’s kills are morally justified; she does not kill innocents. Which is why she put herself at risk by aborting the hit on Lady Crane.
I suppose there’s enough time left for her to learn new information about other other folks to add to her list. As for Jaime, he got went after Ned and killed Jory because of his brother’s kidnapping – which was precipitated by LF falsely implicating Tyrion in the attempt to murder crippled Bran. In that respect, Jaime got suckered into the escalating feud.
As for the hype about worrying that Arya’s becoming a cold-hearted killer (maybe in one of the “Inside the Episode” segments?) that to me is just setting up an Arya-Hound reconciliation arc. She’s the one who convinced him not to kill that pig merchant (“Please! Please don’t kill him!”). If it starts looking like Arya intends to pursue sport-killing as a full-time hobby, a reformed Sandor will set her straight.
At least that’s how I see it playing out
Stark Raven’ Rad,
Ha? You’re right about Show Lyanna. All she did was give birth and die (and I guess ride a horse for a few seconds in one of Bran’s tree-tripping visits into the past).
So yeah, nothing much else in the show about Lyanna other than Robert talking about how Lyanna was all he ever wanted, and Cersei telling Ned how s drunken Robert called her Lyanna on their wedding night.
Not enough in the show for any Arya = Lyanna 2.0 setup.
This is one of the classic ironic tropes in all the history of storytelling: The one who fears a prophecy, in attempting to circumvent it, inadvertently takes precisely the steps that set it in motion. There are countless examples going back at least as far as ancient Greece (Oedipus, Perseus etc.), and audiences always seem to find such ‘poetic justice’ plots satisfying. It’s not the sort of convention that I could see GRRM deflating simply for the sake of not being predictable.
Ten Bears,
Thank you so much for your detailed explanation, it really gave me everything I had needed to know! I’ll take your advice about choosing only Maisie’s episodes, at least for the moment. After watching the very first episode of the show I’m not sure I’d like to continue. But I’m curious to see Maisie playing a Viking (she must be the shortest Viking in their entire history)… and I’m also happy to watch her playing anything in anything. Her being there alone makes it worth it!
All I had known about Doctor Who was the Tardis via The Big Bang Theory 🙂
Very interesting discussion above about prophecies… I’m jumping in. Imo Jaime is the one who must kill Cersei, not necessarily because of what Maggy the Frog said, but because it would be a symbolical act of freeing himself. He would have become a better man if he had never had a sister… there even would have been no reason to throw Bran out of the window. And yes, I love Jaime post the bath scene too much to wish him anything else but to be with Brienne 🙂
I’m a huge Jaime fan but I can’t stand when people try to justify Jaime killing Jory / Crippling Ned. It’s even worse than justifying the Bran push.
The fact that Catelyn did something unwise but from her information justified in no way justified Jaime taking “revenge” on Jory by slaughtering unarmed men in the streets. OK I guess they aren’t unarmed in the show version but still. ESPECIALLY because Jaime knew very well that Catelyn had every right to be pissed at the Lannisters since he himself was guilty of the crime that Cat imprisoned Tyrion for! Sorry, but Jaime has no one to be pissed at but himself for that one.
I think the disparity of reactions had to do with more than the mere fact that Sansa is a more important and relatable character than Jeyne Poole. I think it was inevitable in the adaptation from a written medium to a visual one, where there is such constant pressure to show-don’t-tell. Don’t forget that in the books, we only see the very beginning (from Theon’s perspective) of Jeyne’s nightmarish treatment by Ramsay. The rest – like Theon’s own torture and mutilation at Ramsay’s hands – happens ‘offscreen,’ so to speak. We hear about it in retrospect or rumor. That makes a big difference in making it possible for the audience to distance itself emotionally from the gory details. So, not necessarily a double standard.
In a book, having a character overhear some random scuttlebutt from a chance-met stranger in a tavern can be a perfectly effective way to convey nuggets of information that will make the reader’s skin crawl, as we fit them together with what we already know about a particular situation. Onscreen, that sort of scene is usually deemed ‘exposition’ and the first thing to land on the cutting-room floor to speed up the story’s pace. So directors tend to default to showing us more than we necessarily need to see firsthand, because it’s ‘action,’ and many directors assume that action is always better than talk. For my tastes, in a scene that’s supposed to be horrifying, sometimes oblique hints are creepier than actually showing the monster, zipper seams and all.
But you’re right, I think, about it being the ‘last straw’ for many viewers. The show has at times tilted too far in the direction of eroticizing violence against women. One non-reader friend of mine, for example, gave up on GoT altogether after the scene where Joffrey makes Ros beat the other prostitute. And I’m sure that I’m not the only one whose chief objection to depicting Sansa in the Jeyne role was the fact that we’d already spent season after season watching Sansa be a victim, and were looking for some character growth rather than regression or stagnation.
I don’t think that as screenwriters, D & D regularly tailor their scripts with one ear to the wind of how audiences reacted to a particular scene in the previous season. But when there’s a huge public outcry, most of it negative, then they’d be foolish – or very arrogant – not to take it into consideration to some degree. All of that said, film and TV directors tweak scripts during the actual shooting all the time – when a particular actor improvises a bit of business that works really well, or to get around logistical problems like they had with the BoB shoot.
Ten Bears, if this happens, it would be quite fitting if Oathkeeper (forged from Ice) is the sword since Sansa’s disloyalty (oathbreaking) to her family contributed to Ned’s death; and instead of becoming a magical sword of fire when drawn from her body, perhaps it would become a magical sword of ice.
The show is setting up a potential War of Wolves with the season 6-ending issues between Jon and Sansa, and now you have me thinking that Sansa’s fate will be part of the cliffhanger.
Good to know about Jessica Henwick! Thank you.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on Varys. One can serve a king well if the king wants to be served well, but all Robert wanted was to drink and fuck. Imho, no amount of good advice could have stopped the trainwreck (epic wheelhouse wreck?) that Robert’s Westeros would have turned into, Lannister interference or not.
And I actually do believe Varys wants what’s best for the realm. Varys came from the streets. He’s bathed, perfumed and well fed now, but he can empathize with the smallfolk in a way Littlefinger will never be able to. More important, Littlefinger has no desire to. All he wants is the Iron Throne and Catelyn Lite.
I totally agree with your “heterosexual bros” point. My point was that this was a dubious place for the more effeminate sort of gay man. Renly and Loras are soldiers, ffs. I’ve met gay soldiers, and that simply isn’t how they present themselves to the world. In my own perfect world (ha!), the show would have had more gay characters, and D&D would have shown that gay people are as diverse as straight people are. Additionally, it would have given them the opportunity to show gay characters whose homosexuality isn’t there just to advance the plot, as was clearly the case with Loras. I realize the show’s already chock-full of characters, but—for instance—the inclusion of Sequin, Jon Snow’s steward in the books, might have been nice.
LMAOOOOO!!!!!
I’ve been telling people this for years. 🙂
QueenofThrones,
You’re right. There was no justification for Jaime and his gang to slaughter Ned’s men in the streets. (But gee, I wonder how Jaime knew Ned was there?)
But correct me if I’m wrong: didn’t Catelyn “arrest” Tyrion for that goon’s attempt to murder already-crippled Bran with the VS dagger that LF falsely said belonged to Tyrion? (I think Tyrion asked Catelyn on the way to the Vale what kind of idiot would give his own knife to as assassin to use ). I also thought CSI tech Cafelyn had found a long blonde hair in the tower, which did not implicate Tyrion. Finally, wasn’t she under the impression from the misleading letter from her dingbat sister Lysa (S1 E2 or3?) that Jon Arryn had been killed by the Lannisters?
But I guess I’d have to rewatch the Vale trial scenes to see exactly what crimes Catelyn accused Tyrion of committing.
Shy Lady Dragon,
It’ve very striking to me how well Dr Who is known in the UK, and how little almost everywhere else. Becoming Dr Who, or Dr Who’s companion, instantly confers celebrity status on actors within the UK, but probably does very little for their careers in Hollywood – although, that said, former Dr Who companion Karen Gillan hasn’t done too badly for herself since she moved across the pond.
Shy Lady Dragon,
There could be a children’s book in that…
“I’m the littlest Viking, Ashildr is my name
They won’t let me put out fires, isn’t that a shame…”
I may need to tweak the details a bit.
Lonely Cat,
Re: potential “War of the Wolves”: Damn it. You’re probably right, and I’d been hoping I’d misread some earlier red flags.
I recall Ned’s talk with Arya after she was upset about Sansa, Joffrey and the butcher’s boy’s death. Ned said something like [paraphrasing] “We’ve come to a dangerous place. We can’t fight a war amongst ourselves. …Now, winter is truly coming, and in the winter we have to stick together.”
That was echoed by Jon Snow in S6E10 (after Sansa informed him about the white Raven’s arrival signifying “winter is here”), when Jon told her [paralhrasing] “We have so many enemies now. We have to trust each other.”
Firannion,
Flayed Potatoes,
I agree the scene was horrible but to me D&D didn’t make it up, Sansa was just combined with another character which they do quite often and it was depicted worse in the books with Ramsay forcing Theon to not just watch but get involved.
Yes there is a lot of violence against women but there also is against men like Theon for example, he probably has to be the most damaged person on the show, let’s not forget about all the unsullied soldiers we may not have seen it but what was done to them was atrocious. It seems though that a lot of people only care if it’s a main character, somehow to those people what happens to other people in the show or in the books doesn’t matter as much or seems less violent if they aren’t the top main cast.
I wouldn’t say it was the final straw for viewers either considering there was no big drop in viewers, if people stopped watching because of that scene it wasn’t many people, I imagine just a shit load of complaints unlike after the first episode of the current season of Walking Dead the entire episode was full of misery, violence and death people consider it worse than anything GOT has ever done and apparently after that episode they lost 6 million viewers.
Bufferzone,
Awww. I’d like that. “The Littlest Viking.”
Would there be a way to incorporate one of my favorite Arya lines ?
Gendry: “You shouldn’t insult people that are bigger than you.”
Arya. “Then I wouldn’t get to insult anyone.”
Bufferzone,
I love your Littlest Viking!
Very strange (to use the immortal words of Ramsay Bolton) that Doctor Who was never on TV in my country. I’m saying that because since the 60ies there have been many famous British and American shows on TV. I grew up with Kojak and Dallas, but also with Forsyte Saga, The Pallisers, Poldark, Pride and Prejudice and many others. Monday nights were special to me because it was British shows night! The American shows were on Saturdays.
Ten Bears, Bufferzone,
I have watched The Girl who Died and The Woman who Lived from Doctor Who and I enjoyed Maisie’s acting a lot. Such a big range of emotions! Go Maisie, you great thespian!
QueenofThrones,
I agree what you said about Jaime, the other thingn the trouble me is the why he was commanding Lannister’s men (firts season/first book), he is a part of the Kingsguard, he renounce everything about his heritage, lands and titles, technically he should’t been allowed to participated in any of his fathers and house wars, and he did… he left Kings Landing and His King side to command a Lannister army against the Starks.
Shy Lady Dragon,
Along with Ned and Tyrion, Arya was my favourite book character. So when the show premiered I was extremely nervous about the unknown child actress (Sean Bean and Peter Dinklage had always been my mental pictures of Ned and Tyrion!). I was confident they could find some tall, conventionally beautiful girl to embody Sansa. But Arya–so mercurial, so articulate, so determined, so physical, so willing to get down and dirty, so tragically alienated, so alone in an adult male world? I worried that they’d dumb her down or have to find the proverbial needle in the haystack. [Pun unintended, truly.] They found it. Maisie was a revelation. In all my movie-buff and telly-buff years, I’d never seen a child with such a range of emotion and an ability to hold her own with star actors. (Only Natalie Portman in “Leon” comes close.) And Maisie did her own stunts…left-handed, year in and year out. She deserved that Emmy nomination. Over six seasons, my admiration has grown exponentially, but I had to see her in another role before I was 100% convinced. Dr. Who did it. I’m a believer. I think for her the sky’s the limit as long as 1) she has a good, proactive agent to advise her and suss out the right roles and 2) her height is not held against her.
Shy Lady Dragon,
I liked her best in “Hell Bent”, even though her onscreen time is less than in her first two episodes.
And if I recall correctly, her character has a line that may or may not be a nod to G of T: something like “Summer can’t last forever.” Incidentally, Donald Sumpter (?) aka Maester Luwin, appears in the episode.
PS. After Maisie’s episodes, I watched a few reruns from earlier that season, as well as some from prior seasons with different incarnations (and actors playing) the Dr. I couldn’t stick with it. However, there was one episode I thought was well done called “Don’t Blink” (I think) with David Tennant as the Dr. and a young Carey Mulligan in one of her first roles.
Anyway, I’m eagerly awaiting the publication of “The Littlest Viking.”
Stark Raven’ Rad,
I’m on board with everything you said sbout casting Maisie Willisms as Arya. I found it intriguing to go back to some old entries in GRRM’s “Not a Blog” when the roles were being cast. Aside from his palpable enthusiasm about the upcoming TV adaptation (he liked to pose riddles to the fans to guess which actors had been cast), he specifically noted how challenging it was to find a child actress to play Arya. It’s worth going back to read his contemporaneous accounts of the showrunners (including himself) e-mailing and watching hundreds of videotaped auditions and photographs of child actresses, until announcing “We’ve found our Arya.” He posted a small black and white picture of a young Maisie, and it was interesting how most of the book-readers’ comments were along the lines of “that’s exactly how I pictured Arya when I was reading the books!”
It must be incredibly difficult – and to borrow your intended pun, like trying to find a needle in a haystack – to identify a 10-12 year old who has that “it” factor.
Here, as I think GRRM commented, unlike most movies or TV shows where the child actors are secondary characters, whoever played Arya would have to carry tremendous dramatic weight, and would often be the “lead” character in a scene. Even more challenging, the part could not be played by a “one-note” actress, considering the wide range of emotions experienced by the character, from feisty, happy-go-lucky tomboy to traumatized war-refugee orphan “boy” – and that was only in the first season.
Whenever I’ve rewatched her S1 scenes, I marvel at how natural her acting is, even in a wordless brief scene like in S1E1 when she’s got that delighted smile while spoon-flinging food at her uptight sister, that quickly turns into a pout when Robb picks her up to send her to bed. All of her scenes with Syrio were perfect too.
Your comparison to a young Natalie Portman was apt. She was great in Leon/The Professional with Jean Reno.
But if you haven’t done so, you should check out her performance in the movie “Beautiful Girls.” The movie has a large ensemble cast with lots of big names, but Natalie Portman stole the show in her few scenes with Timothy Hutton (esp the outdoor ice skating rink scene, and T. Hutton calling down to her from his second floor window in what her character called “Romeo and Juliet: the dyslexic version”).
For a 19-year old, Maisie seems to have a good head on he shoulders. It’d be nice if her career follows a path similar to Natalie P’s.
Stark Raven’ Rad,
You wrote a really beautiful description of Arya, I enjoyed it a lot.
After binging the first season of GOT I ordered ASOIAF, so the characters in AGOT had, for me, the faces of the actors. Watching the first season I was immediately amazed by Tyrion (I had already seen him in The Station Agent) and by Maisie, so talented and adorable! I liked Ned as much as I hated Jaime – who would expect the bath scene to change so much? Now Jaime is one of my favourite characters. So many great characters embodied by great actors, it’s hard to pick only one as favourite.
I like the paralled you made with Natalie Portman in Leon, she is another actress who is very dear to me.
Ten Bears,
Indeed, we must insist that Bufferzone publishes The Littlest Viking!
I am going to watch all Maisie’s episodes in Doctor Who and, after you mentioned Donald Sumpter and Carey Mulligan, I guess I’ll watch more.
For everyone who admires Maisie… let’s watch her singing and dancing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq4D3dzEz1A
keltia,
???
And she didn’t brake a bone bless her heart ❤️
Stark Raven’ Rad,
Stark Raven’ Rad;
Shy Lady Dragon:
This is turning into a “Maisie Williams Apprecution” thread. Which is good ???.
I concur “the sky’s the limit” so long as she has a good, proactive agent to advise her and suss out the right roles. But I think what Maisie also has going for her is her humility, the rapport she’s developed with more experienced actors, and her willingness to learn from them how to navigate through the film/TV industry. I know her witty social media posts and friendship with Sophie (“Mophie”) make headlines, but not so well-known (because she doesn’t publicly exploit it) is the mentor-acolyte relationship she’s developed with Lena Headey – who’s done a masterful job of avoiding the intrusive, paparazzi-infested Hollywood culture.
Maisie’s real-time tweets upon learning of her Emmy nomination were both humble and witty. But Lena Headey’s congratulatory tweet was wonderful – concluding with: “So fooking proud!”
( Maisie and Lena, along with Liam Cunningham, traveled together to Greece to help raise awareness of the plight of war-displaced refugees.)
Maisie had also sent out a heartfelt message expressing her gratitude and appreciation for the actors and actresses who’ve been role models for her. (You don’t often see that from teenaged actors and actresses.)
As for Maisie’s diminutive stature, I would hope that with the right roles and her talent it won’t matter or might even be an asset. (Isla Fisher’s co-stars in “Wedding Crashers” towered over her, but I thought she stole the show.)
Finally, I think Maisie’s got a knack for comedy. Some of that was on display in her scenes with Rory McCann. She’s got the ability to evoke a laugh with facial expressions alone. (I’d gladly spend an hour watching Rory McCann and Maisie Williams read a phone book together while giving each other sarcastic looks.)
I couldn’t pull up in YouTube Maisie’s commercial for Three UK wireless phone company (“indoor black spots” spoofing celebrity-endorsed skin care products infomercials). It really demonstrates her comedic talents.
I know she’s had roles in “dramas”, but I feel she’s got a great future in comedy.
About having the right agent and management to advise her about the right roles: It’s probably equally important to choose projects with the right directors. I don’t want to name names, but I attribute the occasional unevenness in Ary’s portrayal in S5 and S6 of GoT to the differences in directors. Maisie is always great, regardless of the material. But the times when her Braavos story floundered or her character’s behavior didn’t seem to make sense corresponded with the change in directors (eg, hiding out with Needle at the end of one episode, but then blithely strolling around Braavos unarmed in broad daylight the next episode).
Finally, I don’t think she’s the kind of narcissistic person who believes her own hype. By the same token, I hope she will learn from her mentors to not take it personally if a movie bombs. (One of my favorite all-time movies is the 2005 version of “Pride & Prejudice” with Keira Knightley. Two years later, the same director made “Atonement” also starring Keira Knightley – a movie I hated.)
I’m still holding out hope that GRRM will write some S8 scripts: the scenes he wrote for Arya in early seasons were among her best. (I’ve said before: I’d rather he abandon writing the books since it’s obviously become a chore, and spend a little time scripting the final season of the show.)
Our girl deserves it! Maisie, will you be my daughter, please? I’m of the right age to be your mother and I don’t have (other) chidren 🙂
Shy Lady Dragon,
From what I understand, Maisie was raised by a very supportive single mom. She’s avoided the spotlight, but Maisie remains close to her and thanks her all the time.
Her mom must be an extraordinary person.
Ten Bears,
I’m very glad to hear that! I think it is obvious, seeing the good-humoured and grateful person she is now, that she felt happy and secure when she was in her first childhood.
Shy Lady Dragon,
Ten Bears,
Stark Raven’ Rad,
About the Maisie appreciation thread: It’s early morning where I am, and after anxiously scanning the Guardian to see whether the world has gone any more haywire overnight, it is lovely to return to this thread and see all this positivity about Maisie in general and her performance in Doctor Who in particular!
I read all five ASOIAF books before seeing anything of GOT except a few clips, and Arya was my favourite character, so the actor who played her had to clear a high bar – and Maisie has cleared it with ease. Her S2 storyline with Tywin was a particular highlight, but even in her rinse-and-repeat (and then messy) S5 and S6 plotline, I thought her acting was fine.
I recall reading that she got the director of the big Waif chase scene to tone it down from what he’d originally planned – making the stunts less “big” – because she told him Arya wouldn’t waste any energy on looking flashy in such a predicament.
I see that her latest “role” is fronting an aspect of the UK’s annual charity “Red Nose Day” alongside comedian Jack Whitehall – another name that may not mean much in the US but is significant in the UK. Also, The Falling is having its BBC TV premiere this weekend. So, as someone who seems to have a good reputation within the industry and excellent connections as well as talent and a strong work ethic, I reckon she is very well set for a long UK career, perhaps on both sides of the camera.
She certainly has the talent to prosper well beyond the UK, but I’ve formed the impression – I could be wrong! – that success in Hollywood is not solely about talent…
About The Littlest Viking: I can safely say that, were this to be published, it would sell better than any of my other books! But the whole “blatant plagiarism” thing might be an issue.
BTW there is already a book about Ashildr: called Doctor Who: Legends of Ashildr, it contains four novellas about her & her adventures. One is very good and focuses on the emotional price she’s had to pay. The other three felt a bit like “Hey! I’ve got this unsold novella, and if I changed the name of the title character to Ashildr, I could sell it to the BBC!”, though that may be harsh. I really like the cover illustration of Maisie/Ashildr, though.
Ten Bears,
Damn. Cell phone froze on me before I could finish…
I’d be interested to learn from her mom how she raised such a talented, kind-hearted, and loving daughter.
These days, many adults’ (and parents’) view of self-centered, vacuous young women can be summed up in the words of our favorite character:
“Most girls are idiots.”
Bufferzone,
So she’s going to be fronting this year’s “Red Nose Day” charity event. I don’t know many people who’d give so much of their time to so many charitable causes, let alone a 19 year old who could just as easily indulge in the care-free non-stop party lifestyle of many young celebrities.
As I noted in another thread, my daughter (who’s now 26) is the one who got me into GoT. Arya has always been her favorite character, and for good reason: not only is the character incredibly well-written and -acted, but in her honesty, demeanor, and gives-no-fucks attitude about her purported role in society, very close to what my daughter was like as a child. Given that girls are still constantly told, in so many ways, that pretty is more important than intelligent, that demure is preferable to feisty, and that girls should downplay their own accomplishments to elevate others’ (especially boys’), it was very empowering for her to see a character that reflected how she sees herself. Additionally, like Maisie she was also tiny as a child, and developed a big voice so people would pay attention to her.
I’m looking forward to seeing Maisie’s other work, and appreciate the comparisons to Natalie Portman in Leon, probably one of my five favorite movies. Incidentally, Portman is also quite diminutive by today’s standards (5’3″, or 1.60 m). I think Maisie will be just fine, given her incredible talent, humility, and support from fellow cast members. 🙂
Bufferzone,
About The Littlest Viking: you can always plead Postmodernism 🙂
Ten Bears,
Every time I hear about “Red Nose Day” I think of Coldplay’s GOT musical. This musical, the Jon Snow dinner party and the Melisandre baby shower are the feel good strategies that I use all the time!
Wolfish,
GOT along generations, that’s wonderful!
Maisie Williams Appreciation Thread (cont.)
Ii think it’s inevitable that progressives in the UK will try to induce Maisie to run for public office. Her “favorability rating” and name recognition are that high.
Two years ago, when she was 17 and about to turn 18 before the upcoming British general election, she put out a witty (of course) video in conjunction with an interview with “Dazed” magazine, encouraging young people to vote.
She was dressed in a business suit, seated behind a desk with a easel next to her and used as a pointer — you guessed it — Needle. On the easel was a “List” of phonies. She exhorted young people to exercise their right of self-determination, because: “They’ve kicked your future in the teeth and hoped you wouldn’t notice.”
At some point in the not too distant future, somebody’s going to make a pitch to her that she can make the most difference by getting involved in politics. (At least here in the U.S., political parties are always on the lookout for young “rising stars” to position for runs for elected office.)
I hope she stays in the entertainment business and champions worthwhile causes, like George Clooney. But as her contemporaries (and multitude of fans) become an increasingly larger segment of the electorate, it’s only a matter of time before pollsters identify her to progressive leaders as someone to target.
We’ll see…
I totally agree that George Clooney is a worthwhile cause. 😆
Seriously, though… Thank you for the post! I’m now armed with an entire list of Maisie movies, TV shows, and political adverts to watch. And heaven knows we need all the politically-savvy rising stars we can use right now, what with Emperor Bannon and Mangled Apricot Hellbeast doing their best to torch Rome…
Ten Bears,
Too right! I’m not sure she’s fronting the whole thing, though – she and Jack Whitehall are the faces of a T-shirt line that’s been released to raise money for the event, but I don’t know what her involvement will be beyond that.
Ten Bears,
Re Maisie and politics: Maisie reminds me, in her political engagement, of a young Glenda Jackson – a famous British actor who became a Labour Party MP and has now, I think, returned to acting.
Shy Lady Dragon,
Re The Littlest Viking: Absolutely! I like to think that the young people of today know intertextuality when they see it.
Sorry for three comments in a row … editing fail on my part …
Ten Bears,
Re Maisie and her Mum: I abjure the Rupert Murdoch-owned Daily Mail and all its works, and don’t believe I’ve ever knowingly posted a link to it before, but in this 2014 interview Maisie and her Mum discuss the decision to let Maisie leave regular schooling at 14 to pursue her acting career, and what her future may be in an industry full of “tall girls with long blonde hair”:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2586912/How-British-schoolgirl-abandoned-GCSEs-shot-TV-stardom-bloodthirsty-killer-gory-hit-Game-Thrones.html
Bufferzone,
Four in a row! But I was wrong – the Mail is not a Murdoch paper, though as a right-wing scandal rag (which was incidentally a strong supporter of Oswald Mosley’s British Union of Fascists in the 1930s) it may as well be.
And now, I might get on with the work I’m actually supposed to be doing…
Bufferzone,
Oh, don’t remind me of “the work I’m actually supposed to be doing.”
Sometimes, I sit down to do “real work” and a half hour later I find myself in front of the TV watching the Hound’s slow burn while Polliver babbles away. I can watch that scene over and over and notice something new each time.
Wolfish,
You got me there with George Clooney being a worthy cause. ? I’d blame my crappy cell phone that doesn’t like to let me scroll up or edit, but that was all on me.
Good spot though ! ?
Wolfish,
You mean Emperor Vlad, Subcommander Bannon, and Agent Orange…
Wolfish,
The Night King would be a more dignified leader. At least he wouldn’t be sending out tweets at 3 AM: “Jon Snow- overrated!”
Bufferzone,
I didn’t like the tenor of that Daily Mail article. It kept referring to the decision to allow her to pursue acting on G of T (and be tutored) instead of attending school as “controversial.” Absurd. If was a no-brainer. What loving parent would deny a child a once in a lifetime opportunity ?
It also kind of insinuated she can’t spell because of a lack of formal schooling. How absurd. She’s intelligent, articulate and can spell just fine.
And the article kind of took the ‘tall girls with long blonde hair” comparison out of context. Maisie was saying how she’s glad Arya’s character is admired for her heart, and not the way she looks; her mom said she may not be a leggy blonde, but when she’s all scrubbed up and on the red carpet she looks gorgeous. So very true.
She’s also got great fashion sense.
It’s disappointing how headlines and wording can be misleading, and misrepresent the contents of an article or quoted statements.
And you know what? If it’s such a big deal that she sit for this exam or that exam, she can do that when S8 is finished.
Would any mother say, “No, Maisie. You have to quit GoT and attend public school instead. Maybe when you’re older you can try out for a part in something else. “
Ten Bears,
/Jack Daniel’s out nose
Ten Bears,
Please don’t think I was trying to say this was a great article, or that it doesn’t have the faults you criticise! It’s just the only interview with Maisie’s Mum I could find. If I could have found one from anywhere else than the Daily Mail, I would have linked to that instead.
Ten Bears,
Interrupting “the work I’m actually supposed to be doing” to read what’s new on WOTW is something I’m very familiar with… What am I supposed to do? I work on the computer, so the temptation is a click away… If I had worked… I don’t know, in a hospital, a restaurant, a shop or a garden it would have been more difficult to stop working all the time (even if I have my phone to carry with me all the time)… You see, I’m a victim of circumstances 🙂
Joking aside, WOTW is the place where I feel at home, so it’s only natural to come over and over again, no matter what.
About the undertones of the Daily Mail article: I felt the same. As if the journalist believed themselves superior in judgement and far more cultivated than the neglected home-schooled girl… To doubt the career Maisie has ahead is plain stupid! Good for Maisie and especially for her mum, “the objective part”, “the grown up”, to really know what fulfillment means.
Also I’m glad I saw the picture of Maisie with her mother.
Bufferzone,
Oh no! I didn’t think that at all! I didnt think you were saying it was a good article, and you’re right – it’s the only one I’ve ever seen with pictures and quotes of her mom.
The contents were interesting. It’s just the slant they put on the contents was unfair. At 14, the fact that she was familiar with Leonard Cohen’s music is impressive enough. That she supposedly wasn’t sure how to spell the song title “Hallelujah” does not make her illiterate.
I guess there’s no click bait in a title “Bright Young Actress Pursues Her Promising Career”; there’s got to be some “controversy” in it.
That was my only gripe. The contents were interesting. Thanks for the link.
PS. If anyone was interesting in watching Maisie’s Dr. Who episodes, reruns of the first three of the four are going to air on BBC America this Thursday, Feb. 9, 2017 [ all times E.D.T.]:
6:00 AM “The Girl Wbo Died”
7:00 AM “The Woman Wbo Lived”
11:00 AM “Face the Raven”
I’m not sure when the reeun of her fourth episode (“Hell Bent”) will air.
Maisie Williams Appreciation Thread (cont.)
Here’s more empirical evidence of her talent: Consider how many times she’s been been required to go one-on-one with experienced, accomplished actors in extended scenes, and not just held her own, but excelled every time:
Sean Bean (Ned)
Charles Dance (Tywin)*
Essie Davis (Lady Crane)
Frances Magee? (Yoren)
Paul Kaye (Thoros)
I don’t want to relegate them to “second tier” status, but I wasn’t familiar with the following actors before GoT:
Rory McCann (The Hound)
Kit Harington (Jon Snow)**
Miltos Y– (Syrio Forel)
Tom W (Jaqen H)
Every scene with the younger actors was great too, eg Joe Dempsie (Gendry), Ben Hawkey? (Hot Pie), Sophie T (Sansa); and even her. brief interactions with Gwendoline Christie (Brienne)*, ? ?? (Septa Mordane), Isn Beattie ?? (Meryn F-cking Trant), Carice van Houten (Melisandre)*
* Apparentky, show-only deviations from the books
** Only one scene, but it was a great one.
Note: I didn’t include David Bradley (Walder Frey) ? and whoever played Polliver and Rorge because they weren’t around long enough. ?? ? I didn’t include Faye Marsay (the Waif) because she was kind of a one-note character (“Who are you?”… Thwack ! Thwack !)
( If I’ve forgotten anyone, please feel free to remind me..)
I don’t think what Maisie has done can be said about any of the other child actors on the show. And I don’t want to jump on the “Dorne sucked” bandwagon, but the three supposedly badass Teenaged Mutant Ninja Sand Snakes weren’t in Arya’s league.
Since we appear to be turning this into a Maisie appreciation thread………watched The Falling on BBC tonight. I hadn’t seen it before, but both the film and Maisie’s performance were amazing. I really hope that she sticks to low budget character parts. This is where her future lies – in character roles where real talent is required.
Gee, it’s time for me to do some work again (busy weekend), so naturally I swing back here first! (Could this just become a permanent Maisie Appreciation Thread?)
Ten Bears,
Glad to hear you weren’t cross with me over the Daily Mail article!
The Syrio actor was Miltos Yerolemou. There’s a good 2012 interview with him here in which he talks about Arya, Maisie and swordfighting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UYgEx2Px9k
It’s a great pity Faye Marsay was given such a one-note role as the Waif, because she is a fine actor – she’s fantastic in the movie “Pride”, which she’s interviewed about here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyZSIHtp4hg
Talking of actors who have been under-served by GoT, Keisha Castle-Hughes has done great work in New Zealand and international movies, so I think the deficiencies of her GoT role have a whole lot to do with poor writing and poor direction – although in my view the Dorne raw material GRRM provided wasn’t all that great to begin with.
I think Maisie herself was under-served by her S5/S6 storylines, so I’m looking forward to seeing her back in the thick of things in Season 7 and – with luck – 8!
Shy Lady Dragon,
You hit the nail on the head in identifying the Daily Mail journalist’s presumptuosness, as if she/he had superior judgment, and the ability to determine that the illiterate girl and her misguided mother were making a big mistake. I don’t know how exams, grading and the school system works in the UK, but they made it sound like if she didn’t stay in schoo, take certain exams and get certain grades, her future would be bleak. I wonder.if there was some undercurrent of envy.
More than anybody, a journalist covering the entertainment field should know that opportunities like Maisie had at 14 come along once in a lifetime – IF you’re lucky. I think about how many struggling actors and actresses there are out there waiting tables, hoping for that big break to come along;and how many are eventually forced to give it up and live a life of drudgery.
In fac, most pilots aren’t picked up; most series tag are greenlit for 6-7 episode initial run never air; and as we know,, most new shows that are aired are cancelled premsturly or aren’t renewed. Remember all the hoopla for “Vinyl”? Scorsese and Jagger and a huge investment – and HBO pulled the plug after one season.
(It slips my mind now, but there’s a talented actress who’s just recently gotten some aclsim, but her resume is littered with years of castings for shows that that were made but never aired,)
Even GRRM, who was a successful Hollywood TV show writer, eventually gave it up and started writing ASOISF because he got frustrated writing shows that were never made. (If my memory serves me correctly.)
The point is that for an actress, to land a role on any TV series is a stroke of good fortune. But when you’re on a series that catches fire, you thank your lucky stars, and grab onto that oppottiniy. The same holds true in any endeavor in life.
A journalist ought to appreciate that.
And one other thing; it’s not as if Maisie comes from a shoebox family or big money to open doors and provide a financial safety net. So how could anyone possibly criticize her or her mother for seizing the opportunity to pursue her natural talents AND acquire financial security. Maisie’s recent statements about life after GoT confirms they made the right decision. But I can only imagine if she had the “journalist” as a parent: she’d have quit the show, and watch some other actress take over the role while she sits in a classroom bored to tears. (Perhaps she’d be content pursuing her interest in dance, but again, the odds of making a living at any artistic endeavor are slim.)
Okay. Anti-Daily Mail False Superior Judgment rant over.
Ten Bears,
Correction/Edit to anti-Daily Mail rant above…
I meant to write that “it’s not as if Maisie comes from a “show biz family.” Not a “shoebox family.”
Auto-Correct has a mind of its own. And sorry about all of the typos.
Heres my 2 cents. Growing up I used to make lists of fave things–movies, songs, TV shows, foods, actors, books, colors, cars, and write them down. You get the idea. From the day I cracked open the book Game of Thrones, I been making and revising lists of fave Song of Ice and Fire things–moments, houses, characters, quotes. Same with the TV show. First season, the actor list was Sean Bean, Peter Dinkledge, Michelle Fairly, Mark Addy, and Maisie Williams. A bunch of seasons later, its Peter Dinkledge, Lena Headey, Charles Dance, Pedro Pascale, and Maisie Williams. These actors all created full, breathing 3 dimnsional roles. That an untrained kid could do it is almost shocking. Today I saw iBoy. It’s an okay, sorta modern tech superhero story, and Maisie plays the feisty love interest. Of the whole cast, only she and Rory Kinnear seemed like real people. I like plenty of GOT characters, not just Arya, but a Girl can act…and how.
Abel,
Yes. “A Girl can act…and how,”
This is not intended as a slight of any of the other child (now teen) actors on the show,and I’m not a professional judge of talent, but the question I ask myself about an actress (or actor) in a role is:
“Can any other competent actress be plugged into the same role and achieve the same results?”
For Arya, the answer is “No.” Maisie W is the only child actor on the show I can honestly say is irreplaceable.
Ironically, the scene that confirmed this for me is a scene I cannot bear to watch, and it’s all wordless: The distraught look on Arya’s face when her father is about to be beheaded. Even though Yoren presses her tightly to his chest so she doesn’t see it, she knows it’s happening. The pain in her expression is unbearable – for ME.
Ten Bears,
I really liked your “shoebox family”! It reminded me of the nursery rhyme that begins “there was an old woman who lives in a shoe…”, so I though you meant “a family with lots of children”, even though I couldn’t see how such a circumstance would have helped Maisie’s career.
Abel,
Maisie says somewhere that the Arya of Season 1 was very similar to her in character, so she largely had to “be” rather than “act”. Now, however, she feels that she’s quite different to Arya, so that more acting is required to play the role.
I’m not sure even that explains the quality of her performance in those early seasons, though – nor the way she’s been able to carry the audience with her in so memorably portraying both Arya’s ruthlessness, and the hurt that lies behind it.
Bufferzone,
I too have thought about Maisie being (relatively) underserved by her S5 and S6 storylines. I certainly am in no position to critique the scriptwriters, and (with two notable exceptions*) I haven’t read the books to know enough about the Braavos arc, but I think some of the difficulties were inherent in the storylines themselves and adapting them for the screen. What I mean is:
1. The storylines presented the No One vs. Arya Stark identity conflict, but the audience is emotionally invested in Arya, not the “No One” personna.
I thought the story was compelling when her Arya identity asserted itself, e.g.:
•. After incapacitating Meryn F–ing Trant, asking him twice “Do you know who I am?”, before announcing “I’m Arya Stark”;
•. Ridding herself of “Arya Stark’s things”, but being emotionally unable to toss Needle into the water;
• Disobeying the order to assassinate a good person (Lady Crane), and developing a pseudo mother-daughter dynamic; and of course
• After Jaquen proclaims “finally, A Girl is No One”, replying with “A Girl is Arya Stark of Winterfell, and I’m going home.”
I listed all of these examples because they were memorable scenes, but many found the the “No One” training exercises to be redundant and monotonous.
Plus, aspiring to dispense “the gift” without emotion or remorse would mean turning into an automaton.
2. If the “Needle was John Snow’s smile” passage is any indication, perhaps much of the adapted book story consisted of Arya’s thoughts and internal monologues. (Also, I vaguely recall something about her having wolf dreams or something in the books.)
I would imagine it must be difficult if not impossible to translate all of these unspoken thoughts into dialogue, particularly when Arya had nobody familiar around with whom she could openly converse (like the Hound in S3 + 4).
Arya’s interactions with Lady Crane showed how much more effective and emgrossing her storyline was when she could actually emote and have a conversation with someone.
Otherwise, without resorting to shlock voiceovers or talking to herself, I don’t know if there’s any effective means of translating thoughts into spoken words. So that could’ve handicapped the writers and disserved Maisie. (As I’ve said before, Maisie did an incredible job using facial expressions alone to convey the emotions in the Needle internal monologue, but it’d be ridiculous to have her spend two seasons acting primarily in pantomime.)
2. As some people have commented, they were anticipating some kind of reveal of the mysticism behind the FM’s devotion to the “Many-Faced God”; a hidden agenda of the FM themselves; or some other “payoff” after spending two seasons at the House of B&W watching Arya sweeping floors, washing bodies, and getting hit with sticks.
It’d be a letdown if the FM were just a bunch of assassins for hire, using religious Mumbo jumbo about serving the MFG as a pretext. (And offering free euthanasia in order to get corpses for making face masks.)
Hopefully, there will be a surprise twist involving the FM in S7 or S8. I can’t accept that the main purpose of Arya’s two-year detour was just to learn the cool face-peeling trick.
3. Arya was not only estranged from the people and events in Westeros for two seasons, but Maisie sort of had to carry the whole storyline on her shoulders. And the Jaquen she’d met and impressed back in Seasons 2&3 was different from the harsh Jaquen in Braavos. (Maybe this was due in part to having Tom W. assume the role of a different character in the books: “the Kindly Man”???)
In Cast Away, Tom Hanks was marooned on a deserted island but had Wilson the volleyball to talk to. For two seasons, Maisie was marooned in Braavos with nobody to talk to (except Lady Crane, briefly; I don’t consider the FM’s “game of faces” or “Who are you? “No one.” Thwack!! to be meaningful discourse.)
4. I may have missed something, but I didn’t understand why taking out Meryn Trant was a punishable offense. I thought when Arya and Jaquen were saying their goodbyes after the escape from Harrenhall, she told him she wanted to learn how to do all his FM tricks and he said she’d have to come with him to Braavos for that – and sort of enticed her by saying [paraphrasing] “A girl has many names on her lips. She could offer them to the (Many-Faced? Red?) God, one by one.”
It almost felt like a bait-and-switch to lure her to Braavos. I was left uncertain whether that was the FM’s/Jaquen’s scheme all along. Does anybody have any thoughts ?
5. I think some of us were confounded by The Waif’s unexplained personal hostility for Arya. (After all, the FM are supposed to be emotionally des he’s.) Being a harsh drill sergeant is one thing, but she was itching for Arya to fail, and specifically to flub her Lady Crane assignment so she could get the green light to kill her. Even then, she ignored the order “Don’t let her suffer” and twisted the knife into her gut.
I actually thought from The Waif’s sudden change in expression when Arya got to “Walder Frey” when reciting the names on her List, that the Waif might have some connection to the Freys. (After all, The Waif’s truth-or-lies backstory was that she was the daughter of a Westerosi Lord, just like Arya.)
Maybe I shouldn’t expect to have all the answers spoon-fed to me. I recall there was a good bit of speculation about the Waif’s motivations.
6. Enough has already been written about Arya’s unarmed stroll in broad daylight despite knowing the FM would be coming after her. Her actions seemed out of character, and inconsistent from one episode to the next. However, the unintended disservice to the storyline was the generation of rampant speculation that Arya must have some trick up her sleeve (or fake blood theater props in her shirt) — but it turned out she didn’t.
I’d heard or read that it was a directorial decision to stage the scene in a way to portray Arya in mortal peril for dramatic effect, i.e. so the viewers would be left worrying that Arya would die. Again, I’m not qualified to critique directors, but the audience has been familiar with an established character who’s faced one dangerous situation after another since S1 (and has consistently abided by Syrio’s lessons about “the true seeing” and being ready for trouble). If wariness is suddenly replaced with carelessness for the sake of “dramatic effect”, the storyline is perceived as disjointed and the audience left perplexed or feeling manipulated.
A related problem is that GoT does not disregard the human body’s medical limitations, unlike the standard Hollywood action movie where the protagonist gets shot, stabbed or pummeled in one scene but is somehow able to perform acrobatic stunts in the next. Despite the fantasy elements, eg reanimated corpses, the show does not discard human realism: a big, strong warrior like Khal Drogo is felled by an infected cut; an uncauterized bite wound progressively weakens the Hound; Roose Bolton is dead before he hits the floor from a knife to the gut; King Robert is dies from a puncture wound to the torso.
The point is that dramatic devices and suspensions of disbelief that are standard fare in most TV shows and movies are foreign to the world of GoT. For better or worse, the show’s track record over 5-6 years has raised the bar and raised expectations so high that uncharacteristic behavior or anatomically impossible physical feats undermine the drama; they don’t amplify it.
As a result, even isolated instances of uncharacteristic behavior or unrealistic physicality are glaring departures from the norm. Such departures in Arya’s S5 and S6 storyline undoubtedly diluted its effectiveness in the eyes of the audience.
Yet, even if the storyline disserved Maisie, she still had so many memorable scenes that more than made up for any storyline inconsistencies.
That’s my take on Maisie’s Braavos story. Now that Arya has dropped the “No One” facade and reclaimed her identity as Arya Stark of Winterfell, I’m excited for what happens when she goes home for the first time in 6 years (S1E1).
* The two exceptions to my non-book reader status are:
(1) A while back, I happened to stumble on a GoT forum page (I forget where) asking readers to identify the most emotionally evocative passage in the books. I noticed many respondents quoting “Needle was Jon Snow’s smile” – Arya’s internal monologue on the Braavos dock when she’s tossing Arya Stark’s possessions into the water. Of coursel, I read that excerpted passage.
(2) I read the TWOW “Mercy” chapter that GRRM released on his website, so I had a general idea of the Braavos theater troupe subplot and Arya’s encounter with an antagonist from her past, although the show versions of both differed significantly.
Even so, I noticed that much of Arya’s story in “Mercy” is told via her thoughts to herself.
Bufferzone,
“Shoebox family.” I’ll tell you, I don’t know where Auto Correct comes up with some of this stuff. Sometimes it even “corrects” real words into misspelled words.
Anyway, back to MW: She can say she was being herself or playing herself when she first started, and now she’s learning to act, but as I see it, she’s just a natural. *
In “the scene I cannot bear to rewatch” because she looks genuinely distraught; and in every second of every scene with Syrio Forel, there’s no way she’s acting as herself. She inhabits the character. I think she’s being humble. Good. If she believes she has to learn her craft, that’s a good sign.
Some actresses and actors figure they can just play the same kind of role each time out, cash the paycheck, and live happily ever after. Which is not a bad plan at all. Nothing wrong with coasting.
But it’ll be nice to see MW to try varied, challenging roles. I still believe she can be great in comedies.
* Many child actors sound like they’re just parroting sentences spoken by an adult off camera., without really understanding what’s going on.
There’s only one other child actor I can think of who seemed to inhabit his part: I think his name is Thomas Robinson, and the movie was “The Switch” with Jason Bateman and Jennifer Aniston.
Abel,
I made lists too: All-time top 5 favorite movies; best “guilty pleasure” movies; movies that should’ve been good but were bad; movies so awful they made my foot hurt*, movies that got ruined in the last five minutes with a stupid ending; favorite comedies; most outstanding individual performances in an otherwise so-so movie; etc
I’ve also got a list of great movies that didn’t make the Top 5.
*It’s the weirdest thing. My right foot is like a cinematic barometer. When I’m disliking a movie I’m watching, my foot starts throbbing in pain.
Alba Stark,
So “The Falling” and MW’s performance in it are amazing ?
I’ll have to watch it. I also have to constantly remind myself not to be a genre snob, or decide not to see a movie based on a 2-3 line blurb.
I read the brief description of “The Falling” and figured “this isn’t my kind of movie.” Very silly on my part.
I’ll have to check it out.
It sounds a bit like ‘Picnic at Hanging Rock’ but set in a girls boarding school. Some friends went to such schools and apparently they could be weird. I’d like to see it but haven’t had the chance
Ten Bears,
I must admit I wouldn’t have liked The Falling if another actress, and not Maisie would have been cast. I would have just considered it a strange film, with beautiful images and symbolic connotations.
I find myself thinking about this sometimes on my many subsequent viewings of episodes, but not limited to young cast. There has never been a question or even a thought about it for Maisie. The moment Maisie appeared on screen in 1×01 she became Arya as a real person. I never watch her scenes and think she delivered a line strangely or have immersion broken because it felt like she was simply ‘reading’ her memorized lines and forcing emotion on top of them. That type of performance is why I have a big problem with another cast member that I won’t name… That part in my opinion could have been cast better. Unbelievable, inaccurate or poorly done emotion coupled with monotone dialogue delivery and/or emphasis on wrong words that change the feeling the lines are suppose to convey pulls me right out of the scene and gets me thinking about the performance instead. Maisie doesn’t have a problem with any of that and it doesn’t matter if the scene asks her to convey joy, anger, sadness, courage, fear, etc., she can do it.
I just read these comments as far as Maisie, Sophie and the other young actors are concerned, we never got to see others for the parts and it seems to me that Nina G. and company got the grand slam on the characters and actors for them; as for their future well ?s
I see Sophie with a future in acting and modeling she has the height and looks for both along with talent. Maisie has the skills for acting no doubt; but may be short for modeling unless petite fashion maybe. I also like to see Bella Ramsey grow.
What I hope for most for all of them the young males also is none of them fall into a Lindsey Lohan situation.
Bufferzone,
Glenda Jackson played Tante Dide in a BBC radio version of Emile Zola’s Rougon-Macquart’s series of novels (they called it “Blood, Sex and Money”) in 2015 and (says Wikipedia) she played King Lear on the London stage in 2016 (she was asked what role she would like to play). Not bad for an 80 year old.
Like many other posters the main thing I wish for the “child” actors of GoT (though I suppose many of them are more “young people” actors by now) is a happy future life whether that be as stars of stage and screen, as jobbing actors or in some other profession altogether. Some former child stars don’t have happy endings (I’m thinking for instance of the late Corey Haim, though as a UK person I’ve only been aware of his story comparatively recently, it was probably better known in North America). Then again, former child star, Hayley Mills, is still going albeit she was never really an “A lister” in her adult life the way she was as a child (she made some movies for Disney in the 1960s and won a “juvenile Oscar” [do they have them anymore?] I think for “Pollyanna”). She has popped up on British TV and done theatre work over the years. Maisie does seem a talented lass and I liked the Lyanna Mormont and Shireen actresses. I’ve personally never had a problem with either Sophie or Emilia (though I know Emilia wasn’t a “child” actress on the show) though I know they aren’t everybody’s cuppa.* I was also impressed with young Hodor though he didn’t have a great deal of screen time. I could say a lot more about other young cast members but I’d still be typing tomorrow if I did!
My edit to my earlier email doesn’t seem to have taken so I’ll try here. People will probably know this but just in case for people whose first language is not English the expression “My cup of tea” is a way of expressing liking something. So if I said “That new song is exactly my cup of tea” I would mean I liked it whereas if I didn’t like something I might say it was not my cup of tea. “That show is not my cup of tea” but often the word “tea” is left out of the phrase and the “of” is shortened to o’. Thus, for example “That cartoon is not my cuppa” (though to be strictly grammatically correct is would be – cup o’). But it usually seems to be written “cuppa” though that isn’t formal “posh” English.
Agree with all of this! Not related, but another child actor who I was blown away by is Jacob Tremblay. His role in ‘Room’ was unbelievable, and I wish he’d hot an Oscar nomination for supporting actor.
Wow – popping back here in my lunch break – so many great posts since I was last here, and I must say I am enjoying the level of input to this thread very much!
Just quickly, and in response to various posters:
On The Falling: I have watched it once, at a film festival, and enjoyed it but found the third act increasingly confusing. A twitter user called @enchantedbyfilm live-commented the BBC screening at the weekend, and if you don’t mind going back through her thread she has a lot of very interesting things to say which helped me understand the conclusion to the film much better.
She tweets a lot, though, so you need to go back to her tweets with the hashtag #TheFalling on 5 Feb. You should be able to see these even if you don’t have a Twitter account.
“The Falling” is still available on BBC iPlayer for those who aren’t geo-blocked from viewing it (which is probably everyone who isn’t in the UK, or doesn’t have a UK proxy): http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b079cwf9/the-falling
Ten Bears,
Arya’s TV storyline in Seasons 5 & 6 broadly – very broadly – follows her TV storyline, but the book storyline is much richer, and she learns much more. Plus the Waif is much less annoying! If Arya had learned more in her HoBaW sojourn in the TV series, then I think it would feel less that her storyline had been parked for two seasons.
In fairness to D&D, though, George’s decision not to have a five-year gap after Book 3 led him to find somewhere to “park” Arya while she grew to womanhood – so even though D&D may not have done a great job of handling that storyline, the fundamental structural problems in Arya’s S5/6 storyline goes back to that decision.
(In idiom we use on this side of the world, George threw D&D a hospital pass with that decision!)
Dame of Mercia,
Thanks for that info on Glenda Jackson!
That last comment was by me… don’t know what happened to the username!
A bit more on The Falling: Carol Morley commenting on the films that inspired her own film – some no surprise, but others (Grease?!) very much so to me :
http://www.bfi.org.uk/news-opinion/news-bfi/features/carol-morley-films-inspired-falling
———————-
Well said. You articulated much of what I’ve been thinking (which is why I’m trying to use the “quote” feature for the first time to cut and paste what you wrote).
Although I’m untrained in the dramatic arts, I can tell when an acting performance effectively evokes emotional responses — and when it feels like a rehearsed recital of lines.
So I credit actors who are able to convey a range of emotion so I don’t have to fill in the blanks and figure out if a character is angry, sad, happy, or just disinterested. That destroys the “immersion.”
As you observed, whatever a scene requires Maisie to convey — joy, courage, anger, fear, etc. — she can do it.
What really impressed me early on was one particular scene in S1E2 (“The Kingsroad”), because in the space of a few minutes, she displays a whole range of emotions and qualities that give you an insight into Arya’s character: from kindheartedness, exasperation (with s little comedic mimicry thrown in), sisterly pride, anticipation snd excitement, gratitude, to unrestrained love. I’m talking of course about the scene when she’s in her room with Nymeria “helping” her pack, and Jon comes to give her Needle. I’ve watched it many times, and marvel how she’s able to seamlessly transition from one emotion to the next, especially at the end when she jumps into his arms.
By contrast, when I watch “another member of the cast that I won’t name”, there’s no change in expression, inflection,
modulation, or anything else to
let me know what the character is feeling or thinking. I can’t gauge how the character is reacting to situations, or what the character’s motivations are. It becomes difficult for me to sympathize with the character.
I don’t want to cast aspersions. It’d be unfair to hold young actors to the same standard as experienced thespians. It just gets frustrating sometimes when I’m “told”, but wasn’t shown, what the character was feeling and thinking.
Also, when an actor’s line delivery and facial expressions are pretty much the same all the time, any intended evolution of the character comes off as contrived.
I did want to mention, if I haven’t before, that I thought the show and actor (Ben Hawkey?) did a great job with Hot Pie and his character’s evolution. When Arya first encountered Hot Pie, he was a bully and a braggart threatening to hurt her. I wanted to punch him. By the end of their adventures, he had become a gentle guy and loyal friend. Their farewell scene was touching. I thought the actor sold it beautifully. And I still chuckle when Arya has to correct him when he calls Winterfell “WinterHell”; still he comes back with “Are you sure?” , and she assures him, “Yes. I’m sure.”
Back to MW and Arya:
(To be cont. )
Bufferzone,
Well, like I’ve tried to emphasize, for me there were more than enough good moments in Arya’s S5-6 storyline to outweigh the “dodgy” stuff; and I do think having a main character “marooned” by herself in another location, with source material containing lots of internal monologue, must have posed problems in adapting it for TV. I should also add that directing styles are a matter of personal taste, and sometimes when “passing the baton” from one episode director to the next, the narrative flow gets a little choppy.
Also, since we’ve been admiring acting talent here, I’d be remiss if I didn’t compliment Essie Davis for her work in S6. Hee scenes with Arya were great, especially when Lady Crane asked Arya how she’d rewrite faux Cersei’s lines in the play.
Comparing Essie Davis’s two renditions of that scene really showed off her talents. She was convincing as the heartbroken, grieving mother in the first version, and just as good as the angry grieving mother in the revised version.
I have not seen Essie Davis in “The Babadook”, but I hear she’s really good on it.
It’s always great to see good acting talent on display in GoT. Essie Davis lrft me wishing there had been more Lady Crane-Arya scenes.
Bufferzone,
Other than Grease, Sat Night Fever, and Heavenly Creatures, I didn’t recognize the names of the movies she listed as inspiration. Lots of them are from the 1970s, I noticed.
I’ve been looking for The Falling on BBC America. No listings yet.
Ten Bears,
I agree re Essie Crane, and to contradict myself, I enjoyed the theatre company scenes far more than what had preceded them in Arya’s Braavos storyline.
In a purely performance sense, I enjoyed the Arya-Waif chase scenes too – it was just the storytelling logic I had trouble with.
Maisie’s a fine actor even when carrying a scene on her own (or even in the case, of Cyberbully, a whole hour of TV), but she’s shown repeatedly how she shines when paired with another fine actor.
If you like Essie Davis, I highly recommend her performance as Phryne Fisher in the Australian series “Miss Fisher’s Murder Mysteries” – sharp dresser, sharp wit, and sharp private detective in 1920s Melbourne:
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/phrynefisher/
Bufferzone,
Thank your for the link to twitter! Spontaneous and chaotic as it is, it helped me organize my own thoughts about The Falling and see them further developed.
Another for info post – somebody was asking about other people who had been up for roles on GoT. This article mentions a few http://www.wetpaint.com/casting-actors-who-could-played-sansa-catelyn-daenerys-594715/ – I’d heard that Jennifer Ehle was the original Caitlyn but didn’t want to do anything other than the pilot because she was a new mother at the time. The name of Izzie Meikle-Small didn’t mean anything to me (she was considered for Sansa apparently) but (after checking with Wikipedia) I realised I saw the version of “Great Expectations” where she played young Estella and she aquitted herself well enough there.
Ten Bears,
Bufferzone,
I loved Essie Davis’ performance! I actually voted for her as our WotW best guest actress. I knew Bella would get it judging by comments but I just thought there was more to the Lady Crane part and she deserved it.
Speaking of… I saw recently that she will be playing the dowager queen in The White Princess. I have yet to watch The White Queen first, but I’m tempted to check out Essie’s performance.
Dame of Mercia,
About other people up for the roles on GoT:
Coincidentally, I was waiting for an appropriate occasion to give a shout-out to Roy Dotrice, and maybe even start an “Appreciation Thread” in the forum section at some point.
Many of you probably know that Roy Dotrice was originally cast to play Pycelle, but had to bow out for health reasons. (He’s in his mid-90s now.) He recovered, and was then re-cast as Hallyne the Pyromancer in S2E8 and E9 (Blackwater). Hallyne was the alchemist who discussed the properties and uses of wildfire with Tyrion and Bronn in S2E8.
I’m sure most of you also know that Roy Dotrice has narrated the audiobooks of the ASOIAF series. I haven’t listened to any, but I understand he voiced over 200 characters in the first audiobook alone.
As for me, 2017 is the 25th anniversary of one of my favorite movies, “The Cutting Edge.” Roy Dotrice gives a great performance (with perfect accent) as a Russian figure skating coach. It’s one of those movies I can rewatch every year and still enjoy it.
He’s also been in a bunch of other movies (eg “Amadeus”) and TV shows (eg “Beauty and the Beast – which is where I assume he met GRRM, a writer/co-producer of the show).
I’m glad he didn’t play Pycelle. In my mind, he’s excelled at playing fatherly figures and mentors. I wouldn’t want to see him play a sniveling, conniving Grand Maester.
Wolfish,
Re: Arya/Maisie Williams –
Your 2/3/17, 3:41 pm comment
I too think it’s absurd that girls are still being told that “pretty is more important than intelligent, that demure is preferable to feisty, and that girls should downplay their accomplishments to elevate other’s (especially boys’).”
I’d even go further and question the perpetuation of the obsolete stereotype of “pretty.” To me and my four brothers, an intelligent, feisty, self-sufficient young woman is pretty. A vacuous, deferential one is not.
Even a girl or woman who conforms to the standardized, airbrushed ideal of “pretty” can become real unattractive in a hurry if there’s nothing of substance underneath.
Speaking for myself, when I was in school I always had crushes on the smartest girls in the class, especially those who spoke their mind.
In my informal “poll” of GoT viewers, i.e. my brothers and myself, the unanimous consensus is that in looks and character, Arya is “the pretty sister.”
PS:
I meant to post this reply to your post sooner, but I think I accidentally zapped it.
Bufferzone,
I’d already watched a handful of “Miss Fisher’s Murder Mysteries” with Essie Davis on BBC Ameeica, and recorded a whole bunch more to tide me over during “the Long Night”, i.e. the long wait until S7 of GoT.
I don’t watch much TV these days. It seems like all of the good new shows are on Netflix.
Between about 20 episodes of Miss Fisher and about 30 episodes of the Sheldon Cooper Show – I mean The Big Bang Theory – I’ve probably got enough to keep me occupied.
And of course, there are GoT scenes I can rewatch over and over and still enjoy. I just fast forward through storylines with one-note characters that didn’t thrill me, like smug High Sparrow, sadistic Ramsey, mustache-twirling Littlefinger, and psycho Joffrey.
All of Arya’s S1-S4 scenes, and most of her S5-S6 scenes, are always enjoyable on rewatch.
I’ve even got a sort of “mix-tape” approach: Immeduately after Arya’s last scene with Syrio “the First Sword of Braavos does not run” Forel (holding off the Lannister soldiers and the cackling Meryn F Trant), I proceed directly to Arya’s S5E10 ocular surgery and tummy tuck on Trant.
Of course, Polliver stealing Needle and killing Lommy is always a nice prelude to the great S4E1 Arya & Sandor scene featuring Arya taking back Needle from Polliver and giving him a tracheotomy.
The S3 or 4 scene of Arya and Sandor slurping Sally’s rabbit stew while her father condemns Walder Frey’s Red Wedding sacrilege, makes a nice lead-in to Arya Stark smiling down at Walder Frey as he dies in S6E10.
Aside from the symmetry of paired-up scenes like this, when I watch them this way a whole bunch of clues, parallels and foreshadowings emerge that I hadn’t noticed before.
But that’s for another thread another day.
Ten Bears,
I like that “mixtape” approach – there are some supercuts of various characters’ storylines throughout a season, and I’ve watched Arya’s S1-3 supercuts a couple of times each.
Bringing things back to Maisie: traditionally, top-of-the-line English actors start in theatre and then make the move to film or TV. It will be interesting to see whether Maisie ever decides to try going in the other direction.
Another trend I note is for comedy actors to take on more dramatic roles: like Gemma Whelan, who started in comedy and has broadened her range to encompass drama as well – the latest being The Moorside. Here she is as Karen Mathews, looking just a touch different from Yara: http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/first-pictures-gemma-whelan-karen-7539657
Conversely, somebody above (I’ve lost the comment. sorry) commented that Maisie could do very well in comedy – I’d love to see her try her hand at that, too, especially given how witty she is on social media.
Ten Bears,
Finally caught up to comments.
Since I was about, oh, 12 or 13 I’ve been comforting myself with the thought that pretty (whatever that is, as you refreshingly pointed out) is ultimately fleeting and superficial, while caring, intelligence, wit, and humor are forever. That is as true of men as it is of women, even though the former are not judged as harshly as the latter on appearances.
I hope you told one of those girls you had crushes on! I was one of those smart, eccentric girls who never had a date in high school, and at my 20th-year reunion one of the boys I had had a crush on confessed he’d always been interested in me… but hadn’t figured out how to strike up a conversation. Youth is, truly, wasted on the young.
Regarding your response to Bufferzone, I’ve both read the books and watched the series twice, and can’t wait to watch it again with Saner Half (who hasn’t seen it at all) and relish all those “clues, parallels and foreshadowings emerge that I hadn’t noticed before.”
Re: “Potential War of Wolves”
(Follow-up to Lonely Cat 2/2/17, 4:25 PM comment and Ten Bears 2/2/17, 7:43 PM reply)
Lonely Cat wrote:
Oh dear. You have to be right. It’s worse (better?) than I thought. I went back, re-watched, and transcribed Ned’s statements to Arya (S1E3) and Jon’s statements to Sansa (S6E10). Both scenes were precipitated by Sansa’s concealment of the truth. Ned and Jon say
the exact same thing
In S1E3, Ned reminds Arya: “You’re a Stark of Winterfell; you know our words” [Arya: “Winter is coming”]. Ned continues: “….But now winter is truly coming. In winter we must protect ourselves, look after one another….We’ve come to a dangerous place.
We cannot fight a war amongst ourselves.”
In Jon’s talk with Sansa on the Winterfell battlements in S6E10 (preceded by the arrival of the white raven from the Citadel signaling that “Winter is here”), after Sansa admits “I should have told you about” the Knights of the Vale, Jon tells her: “We need to trust each other.
“We can’t fight a war amongst ourselves.”
It can’t be coincidence that Ned and Jon warn – in verbatim language – that the Starks can’t “fight a war amongst ourselves.” The full transcriptions of the two scenes (which I’ve written out but haven’t typed up yet), contain even more hints that you are prescient: the show is setting up a “potential war of wolves”, and that Sansa’s fate might be “part of the cliffhanger.”
I had really hoped that the surviving family members would reunite in S7 and heed Ned’s advice to “protect ourselves” and “look after one another.” But then I remembered what show I’m watching. ?
Uh oh you’re probably right. I hate to see it happen, specially cause there’s so little time left in the show, the enemy is at the wall, and stark unity is badly needed. One thing for sure: Jon Arya and Bran will be like three heads of the Wolf. They will act together for the good of the family and the good of westeros.
Abel,
I’ve speculated earlier that Sansa (virtual anagram of “Nissa Nissa”) will face a life-or-death choice of self-interest or self-sacrifice, and choose the latter.
What I HOPE does not happen is that Arya somehow has to participate in Sansa’s death if she asks (the way Sandor begged her to participate in his death: “Kill me!”).
Now, this is probably too contrived, and Ned said it jokingly (S1 E3 or 4), but:
• When Ned confronted Arya about her sword, she said “It’s called Needle.” Ned replied: “A blade with a name. And who are you hoping to skewer with Needle? Your sister?”
• At the end of the scene, Ned handed Needle back to Arya (right after his line, “We cannot fight a war amongst ourselves”), and told Arya: “Go on, it’s yours.” …… “Try not to stab your sister with it.”
Now, I know that Ned’s “quips” were probably a way of acknowledging that Arya was angry with Sansa for lying about not witnessing Joffrey attack Micah. But here are two separate references to Arya using Needle to skewer or stab Sansa (after which Ned lets her keep Needle, with the advice: “If you’re going to own a sword, you’d better know how to use it”). ?
From that millisecond HBO teaser image of Arya on horseback with a new hairdo, heavy fur cloak — and Needle on her hip, we know Arya is probably in the North on her way to Winterfell. (Although she made a quick but productive pit stop at the Twins first to brush up on her culinary skills ??), she did announce to Jaqen at Needle-point: “A Girl is Arya Stark of Winterfell, and I’m going home.”) Sansa’s already at Winterfell. Unless Arya makes another detour, it looks like Sansa, Needle, and Arya will be in the same place in S7.
I do not believe for a second that Arya would skewer or stab Sansa out of spite, malice, or anger. However, I can think of any number of scenarios in which Sansa implores Arya to do so for the greater good: the heroic, self-sacrificial death for Sansa (to repay the “karmic debt”) I talked about.
Putting Arya and Sansa together in a mutual no-win situation could very well be a “cliffhanger.” (Jamie was confronting an analogous no-win inner conflict when he killed the Mad King, as he related to Brienne in the bath and to Catelyn when he was Robb’s prisoner. I wouldn’t put it past the showrunners or GRRM to do something similar to Arya — but I sure hope they don’t. ?)
PS: I’m Anti-Leaks. If “the leaks” refute or confirm any of my speculations, PLEASE do NOT reply to this comment. Thank you in advance for your consideration.
Ten Bears,
What makes me iffy about Sansa’s fate is the fact that Sophie Turner was one of the first actors to finish GOT last year for S7 not only that but she’s gonna be in X-Men as quite a main role which starts filming from reports mid June this year and considering X-Men takes awhile to film and GOT usually starts filming September that doesn’t leave a lot of leeway for her to film GOT. Also what’s fishy is Maisie has said all the cast members have agreed that whoever lives to S8 will all get matching tattoo’s but end of last year Sophie and Maisie got matching tattoo’s of the date they got their part so either they plan on getting two tattoo’s or at least one of them doesn’t make it.
So I think either Sansa may meet a unfortunate end or her role is greatly reduced the last two seasons.
Mel,
Yup. To me and many other commenters on this thread. the premature tattoos were a giveaway that Sansa’s days are numbered. Otherwise, the logical time for Sophie and Maisie to memorialize the date they were both cast would be right before or right after filming S8 — not before S7.
Plus, Maisie’s recent interviews hint (but in mind, confirm, by reading between the lines) that Arya will make it to S8.
Mel,
Mel:
I also meant to thank you for that interesting observation about the X-Men movie filming schedule. I wasn’t aware they were going to be filming another one, or that Sophie’s going to be in it.
The circumstantial evidence is piling up, isn’t it?
Ten Bears,
Your welcome, from what they said after the last movie it seems they’ll be focusing on the younger generation aka Jean Grey, Cyclops, Storm, Quicksilver etc instead of Xavier, Magneto and Mystique.
It sure is piling up.
I’m certainly not a San-fan, but I don’t want to see her die so much as be knocked down a peg or two for having essentially repudiated her Starkiness and Stark values. I have a dilemma: I really really like Arya and Maisie. I want Arya to survive and thrive (as I just wrote in the new WOTW Forum thread on “Who is your favourite character?”), but that very survival could limit Maisie’s acting choices at a career juncture when she needs to make a reputation in other, preferably high-profile things. With her acknowledged talent and youth but unconventional looks, she has to carpe diem very carefully. So far she’s done mostly small, British, and indie films plus Dr. Who. She’s been up for several big Hollywood films she had to back out of due to her GoT commitments, notably Pacific Rim. And she may not get to do the X-Men Mutants…unless Arya dies or is side-tracked. Maisie’s recent spate of interviews shows she’s very aware of this conundrum. Sighhhhh… I guess I come down on the side of Arya. After almost 15 years of her being one of my favourite fictional characters, I can’t stand to lose her. But IMO D&D must do justice to this jewel of a character and giver her a memorable, exciting, dynamic, revealing Season 8 arc that viewers will thrill to long after GoT has ridden off into the sunset. And then Maisie can pursue and get the roles she needs tol add her star to the firmament.
Ten Bears,
Mel,
Talking of filming schedules, Maisie has now been confirmed as taking a leading role in another new film, “Departures” – a teen bucket-list film, it seems (she plays the teen with the bucket list!): http://deadline.com/2017/02/voltage-teen-drama-departures-maisie-williams-asa-butterfield-berlin-nicolas-chartier-1201906771/
The film has gone through a 180-degree turn since 2015, when she was first attached to it and it was called “Arrivals” – the new title sounds a lot more fitting to me.
“Departures” is supposed to start filming in April, and I assume it won’t be a long shoot, so it shouldn’t affect her participation in Season 8, assuming Arya does make it safely through Season 7.
Even though I’m being slightly flippant about this new film, it’s good to see Maisie tackling yet another genre, and I’m sure she’ll do her usual excellent job in the role.
Another movie that Maisie’s been circling is “X-Men: New Mutants” – not Sophie’s X-Men movie! As of last December, “New Mutants” was due to start shooting this May, so *if* Maisie is confirmed as being in it, that might raise one or two questions about her role in Season 8.
Stark Raven\’ Rad,
From the linked interviews, I get the impression Maisie is chafing just a bit from the restrictiveness of being tied to one role for six months every year, but is quite appreciative that this role has enabled her to get her foot in the door in the entertainment business, and that she’s been able to work with so many professionals on a hit show.
I was really disappointed she won’t be in Pacific Rim 2, especially after Guillermo Del Toro met with her a while back, publicly called her “amazing”, and announced that if Pacific Rim got made “that girl is getting a Jaeger.” * As I understand it, Del Torro isn’t directing the sequel. I liked what he did in the first Pacific Rim. Plus, it had Burn Gorman (Karl “The Fooking Legend of Gin Alley” Tanner) as a nerdy scientist, and another GoT cross-over whose name and role I’m not remembering.
Charlie Hunnam isn’t returning from the first movie either. On the other hand, Scotf Eastwood is apparently playing the male lead instead; he’s looking more and more like 1970s version of his dad every day.
Still, it is disappointing that Maisie won’t be in PR2. Anyone who’s seen the first knows that they didn’t make the female lead just a worried girlfriend of the hero or damsel in distress. She was his equal and co-partner.
Maisie would’ve been an awesome Jaeger pilot. Oh well.
In the grand scheme of things, being known for playing the iconic role of Arya Stark, and gaining so many admirers over eight years, can only help Maisie. (Plus, she’s got a huge built-in fan base that should make it a no-brainer to cast her in any big-budget blockbuster – or small indie film).
I often wonder about how Emilia Clarke’s career trajectory would’ve been vastly different if she hadn’t been cast in her iconic role on GoT. I compare it to the career of Tamzin Merchant (may have spelled the name wrong), an actress I’ve liked since seeing her in a small role in Pride & Prejudice (2005).
As most of you probably know, Tamzin Merchant played Daeny in the original, never-aired pilot episode of GoT. (I’m not sure why the role was re-cast. ) I’ll bet she wishes she had the exposure and opportunities that have come Emilia’s way.
There was a point to this pre-morning coffee comment… Oh, right: Maisie’s eight-year investment playing Arys should pay huge dividends for her in the future no matter what she decides to do with her life.
* ie piloting a giant mechanized robot that battles alien creatures
Bufferzone,
About side projects for the cast: I keep forgetting that S8 will only be half a season, i.e. 6 episodes. That may free up the actors to pursue films with longer shooting schedules.
Also – and I must sound like a broken record here – I think Maisie Williams has a knack for comedy. As much as I’d love to see her play Arya 2.0 characters in X-Men and other action movies, I’d really like to see her take on some lighthearted, funny roles.
She’s smart and witty (as others have noted from her social media posts). She has natural comedic timing. In interviews, she’s charming, funny and charismatic. (Too bad that Three UK TV commercial spoof of skin care products infomercials is no longer accessible on You Tube: it really showcases her talent for comedy.) Even on the rare occasions on GoT when Arya gets a “punch line”, Maisie’s been great. My favorite example is this exchange: Gendry: “You shouldn’t insult people that are bigger than you.” Arya: “Then I wouldn’t get to insult anyone,”. It’s not just the line: it’s the look on her face and tone of her voice when she says it.
I’m not so sure I’d like to see her in serious “dramatic” roles all the time. It’d be a waste of that natural gift for comedy. She could out-snark any guy, making her a perfect lead in a rom-com.
Well, she’s only got 6 more episodes of GoT to film [yes, I’m pretty sure Arya is still standing at the end], and then, like she says, she now has the ability to do whatever she wants in life.
Bufferzone,
Thanks for that heads-up and link to “Departures” ! From the brief description of that upcoming movie, it could be just the kind of smart, funny, pseudo-rom com role I’d want to see Maisie tackle. Like Maisie, her co-star Asa Butterfield is 19. I think I’ve seen him in other stuff. It looks like he plays an introspective airport baggage handler; Maisie’s character is an extrovert who somehow induces him to join her for her “bucket list” adventures. (Nice for Maisie to have another List to work on. ?). If the script is good, a little movie like this could launch her into the stratosphere.
Go Maisie go!
One more comment and this “Maisie Williams Appreciation Thread” will hit 200.
Ten Bears,
I certainly wouldn’t want to be responsible for that happening!
Ten Bears,
From what I heard regarding the pilot, the original one was quite bad and HBO said D&D had to change it if they wanted it picked up so that’s why they recast Dany among other things so I’m guessing HBO perhaps weren’t big fans of Tazmin as Dany.
Mel,
I’ve always been glad they recast Daenerys. Tamzin is a fine actress but even from the beginning when we were first seeing Emilia play the part I couldn’t picture Tamzin fitting it well. It’s just my personal view but I when I watch Tamzin in things I always see a face more suited for “mean girl” roles, good for schemers and connivers. Daenerys needed to be played by someone that would be liked and seen as genuine. Emilia is that, on screen and as herself. Besides, I don’t think anyone could top Emilia speaking Valyrian (for me).
Clob,
I agree, Emilia just made Daenerys to me. I couldn’t imagine another actress playing her it just wouldn’t be the same.
Clob,
Good point. I can’t envision anyone delivering lines in High Valyrian better than Emilia.
Same way nobody could sell Arya’s hysterical laugh at the Bloody Gate the way Maisie W did.
Hoo boy, the pilot stank according to what I’ve heard. HBO wasn’t impressed and nobody was sure the show would be made. It wasnt any one actor or scene, but the whole shebang. (Golly, I’d love to see it anyways.) Back when WOTW was WIC, there was a ton of talk about casting. I think most roles are very well cast but could have been played by other talented actors. For the heck of it, heres my list of important roles that were perfectly or IRREPLACEABLY cast. If any of you guys know how to start a topic on the WOTW forum, this might make a great thread there. Anyhoo, here goes:
Ned
Arya
Theon
Sansa (height)
Hodor
Sandor Clegane
Varys
Sam
Khal Drogo
Joffrey
Tywin
Cersei
Tyrion (natch!)
Brienne
Walder Frey
Oberyn Martell
Gendry (resemblance to King Robert)
Ser Davos
Bronn
Young Ned (resemblance to Older Ned)
As a self-confessed Maisie Williams fan and biased observer, I think Maisie has already become a style icon, even if she’s “petite.” She’s got great fashion sense, has a knack for finding adorable, quirky handbags, and always has great shoes. It’s my feeling that she’s become a (role) model for many more girls and young women than the interchangeable tall stick figure fashion models who strut down runways in silly outfits that only .0001% of women would dare wear in real life.
Plus, if you’ve seen pictures of Maisie, she’s a virtual chameleon. With different makeup and hairstyles she can look unrecognizable from one photograph to the next. (Even when she takes “risks” she looks amazing: I especiallyadmired the geisha-themed dress, makeup and outfit she wore to the Emmys. )
Lest there be any doubt, even when she was in full costume as a girl posing as a boy, a reknowned fashion expert referred to her as…
“Lovely Girl”
– Jaqen H. , Vogue Magazine
Abel,
1. Interesting that you mention the never-aired, original version of the pilot episode. When we were talking about perceived inconsistencies in Arya’s Braavos storyline, I was going to point out that for 59 straight episodes, the showrunners have not had the luxury of previewing and re-shooting like they did with the pilot. With the tight production schedule and budget, they can’t “tweak” or revise segments that didn’t turn out as crisp as they intended. On the flip side, there must’ve been many performances and scenes that exceeded their wildest expectations. (Who could’ve foreseen that Rory McCann and Maisie Williams would be so awesome ?)
2. From interviews of Benioff and Weiss, I think said they showed the original pilot to three of four trusted colleagues, who candidly told them it wasn’t very good. I gleaned from the criticisms they described that lots of the problems arose because the showrunners were so immersed in Martin’s world that they overlooked little details that they took for granted, not realizing they had failed to impart them to the audience. For example, they neglected to inform the viewers that Jamie and Cersei were brother and sister – kind of a key point considering how the episode concluded with Bran witnessing the two of them copulating. That omission was easily fixed by inserting a line for Arya (I think) during the arrival of King Robert and his entourage, that Jamie was the Queen’s twin brother.
3. I’d bet with unlimited time and money and the benefit of hindsight, there are a host of things the show runners would’ve done differently. I happen to think that they, along with the directors, writers, and actors, have done an incredible job. (So must their peers, with all the awards they’ve won.)
Abel,
About “forum threads”:
1. Though I had some difficulty with viewing what I was typing in the text box, I opened a topic in the forum section a few days ago. For the most part, it’s like posting a comment here – you just have to select a general category (eg Spoiler-Free), supply a title, and then type in the text.
2. My first crack at a forum thread is a show-only, no-leaks discussion of the “amidst salt and smoke” part of the prophecy Melisandre recited during the S2 Dragonstone beach bonfire, and Renly-Stannis parlay scenes.
Just so you know, I acknowledged that Jon Snow and Daeny T are the top two candidates for the “Princ(ess) that was Promised”, but didn’t see how either of them were “born admidst salt and smoke.”
From there, I half-jokingly asked if Renly’s “Is he a ham?” quip may have an element of truth to it, and if so, there aren’t many princes or princes left running around in the show who could qualify.
Naturally, based on show-only information, I posited that our Lovely Girl is eligible. Not that I think it’s remotely likely.
3. I’ve got to return to real work and the real world on Monday, but if and when I get the time I may try to start two or three other threads, eg, Arya Endgame Theories, and a List of Unresolved Mysteries. I want to avoid overlaps with any existing threads.
4. There was so much great input in the 200+ comments under this post (i.e. the “Maisie W Appreciation Thread”) that I’d like to transpant the comments into a separate forum section thread. However, I’m not sure if I could accomplish that efficiently, or whether it’s proper to do so….
5. I’m not sure I understand your proposed casting thread.
I fear that if people are asked to give their opinions on the performances or appearances of the actors who were cast to play certain characters, the thread could attract partisan “fanboy and fangirl” armies and erupt into Character X vs. Character Y disputes.
Ten Bears,
I’d stayed out of the forums here because I’d seen so many comments from various users about the difficulty of using them – but perhaps these difficulties have been overstated! I like the idea of your “salt and smoke” thread, but as someone who read the books sufficiently long ago that I can’t quite remember what are and aren’t book-only developments, I may struggle to stay within its show-only scope.
BTW, although there’s no official confirmation yet, it appears increasingly likely that Maisie will be appearing in New Mutants, as per this tweet from the director:
https://twitter.com/JoshBooneMovies/status/830635168738127872
It definitely could and perhaps would for sure if it were a livelier period on the site. I do try my hardest not to rip into the actors but I do admit that on occasion I can’t hold it in. I’ll just say that after the fact I agree with Abel’s list with just one exception. I won’t say which, but I’ve eluded to the person in this thread and straight out written it in the past. Looking the part and performing the part are two very separate things and I feel like someone else could have done better.
As for additions to that list… I think I’d select Olenna. Diana Rigg’s performance would be tough to equal with another elderly woman.
I really did like Michelle as Catelyn too. That may not have been as irreplaceable though. Heck, maybe Essie Davis could have been equally as good in that role. She certainly had the motherly part down with Arya, but who can say how she would have handled the rest of it. I look forward to seeing her in The White Princess in a role that by title would sort of be in a similar position as Catelyn’s. Very interesting that Michelle Fairley is in it as well and will most likely have scenes together.
This is a bit of joke insert and not a major role, but Luke Barnes as Rast… He may be a little underappreciated for playing such a slimy character. Every time his face was on screen I just wanted to punch it. 🙂
To extrapolate… Essie and Michelle are cast as opposing mother-in-laws in The White Princess. They’re both featured quite a bit in the new trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ-q3_b3dkI
I like the list; IMO most of those roles were filled by actors who IMO were born to play them. Thank you, Nina Gold. I also would have added Olenna, and Jorah, Tormund, Ramsay, and maybe Ygritte and Littlefinger. I agree, Clob, about acting over looks, but often having the perfect look for a character vastly helps cement the portrayal.
Speaking of the right look, thanks Bufferzone for that URL. It’s very encouraging. I saw something this evening saying her casting is official, but I could not track it to a reliable source. So I’ll hold breath, cross fingers, and hope that Maisie gets to portray both Wolf-girl and Wolfsbane.
The original Dany casting must have been quite terrible, if her replacement is seen as much better. As hard-working and nice a person as she may be in real life, I’ve always seen Emilia Clarke as the weakest link, actingwise, among the main cast.
Asa Butterfield was truly wonderful in Hugo. Pretty good in Ender’s Game as well. These two could have interesting chemistry together! I’ll have to catch that movie.
Agreed. Arya’s Faceless training was probably my favorite storyline in A Feast for Crows. With the possible exception of the very brief scene in which she’s learning to tell poisons apart by smell, the TV version fails to capture the complexity of it at all. In the books, her blindness is not a punishment, but an essential phase of her training, in which she learns to hone all her other senses intensely. It feels very much like a natural continuation of her water dancer training under Syrio. She explores all the levels of the HoBaW, which go deep underground, and memorizes her way around by touch and sound and smell. She works as a scullion in the kitchens. And before her blindness, she lives with a fishmonger’s family for a while, explores all the neighborhoods and waterfronts of Braavos, gets to know the whores and the mummers and the peddlers and all the other colorful characters who inhabit the city. And as you say, the Waif’s agenda is mysterious, but not it’s not to be Arya’s persecutor. I didn’t feel that the show did this part of her story arc justice, by a long shot.
Firannion,
I have to disagree with that assessment of Emilia to be honest, especially after seeing the ranges of emotion she displayed in “Me Before You” I actually think she’s one of the strongest actors. The issue with the character she plays though is they kept to the books in her character without explanation to the audience, Dany puts on a cold exterior 100% of the time because she believes people will see her as a weak confused little girl and dragons can’t be weak they only show people their fire not their tears. In the books of course she has doubts and fears but they are only ever expressed in inner monologue not in front of other people. So with her character barely able to express emotion I imagine it would be hard for her to come across as a more sympathetic person. I remember a interview Emilia did from last season about the goodbye scene with Dany and Jorah and how she was told that her eyes had to be on the verge of tears but she could never actually shed a tear because that would be out of character. I think Emilia has done amazing with her eye emotions, she is able to show absolute fear like in the first season, make her eyes go harder yet show brief glimpses of fear, sadness, heartbreak without saying a word. I have to admit I do wish they would let Emilia show the softer side of Dany to let her shine more instead of giving her all these badass scenes although I love her using different tones to speak Dothraki and Valyrian. The two scenes with Tyrion and Jorah were by far the best ones last season as she was able to express softer emotion.
Firannion,
Skye,
Stark Raven’ Rad,
Clob,
Ten Bears,
For female actors I’d say Maisie, Emilia, Lena, Gwen, also the little girl who played Shireen are the most engaging to me even when they are hiding their emotions you can still see them shine through.
For male actors I’d say Iain (though they changed Jorah the most physically from the books it was in a good way) Peter (also changed Tyrion from the books, he fantasized often about raping and killing Cersei, glad they changed that) Iwan, Nikolaj and Rory to me they have shown so many different sides to each themselves and are really standouts.
Of course I love all the cast, they are just the ones I’ve fallen for the most.
Honorable guest star for me would be Jonathan Pyrce as the High Sparrow he was pretty damn amazing.
Also loved “Me Before You” Emilia and Sam had the most amazing chemistry it was incredible but utterly heartbreaking. Even my boyfriend said it was one of the best love stories his ever watched and I’ve made him watch a lot hahaha
Yay over 200 comments lol
Skye,
Ten Bears,
My fave actors are:
Female Actors: Lena, Emilia, Maisie, Gwen, the little girl who played Shireen and the actress who plays Olenna. To me these women are each powerful in their own ways, and are able to express emotion in the most amazing ways and they incredibly engaging and I enjoy it most when their on my screen.
Male Actors: Peter, Liam, Iain, Nikolaj, Iwan and Rory. Lol a lot of older men haha again like with the women I find these ones the most engaging and in depth character arcs. I enjoy what Iain and Peter have done with their characters the most from the books because their thoughts and actions in the books were quite disturbing at times.
For me I also loved Jonathan Pyrce as High Sparrow as a guest star the most, his speeches were incredible and he had a amazing presence on screen.
Of course I love all the GOT Cast and think they are all incredible but these are my most stand out ones.
Loved “Me Before You” most beautiful yet realistic heartbreaking film. Sam Claflin and Emilia Clarke had amazing chemistry.
Ten Bears,
Oh I forgot Alfie, he is seriously one of the best actors on the show whether his meant to be a main character or not.
Mel,
I’ve liked Jonathan Pryce for years (he was good in a cute little movie, “Hysteria”, with Maggie guyllenhall and Felicity Jones playing his daughters), but I couldn’t stand his smug High Sparrow in GoT.
For me, the really noteworthy performances have been by Rose Leslie as Ygritte, taunting and teasing Jon Snow; by Charles Dance as Tywin; Diana Rigg as Olenna; and Liam Cunningham as Davos. I’d watch Lena Headey and Natalie Dormer in anything, so I don’t feel competent to rate their performances in GoT.
The best by far have been Rory McCann (“Not a man at all. A Hound!!!!” – Thoros), and Maisie Williams (“Lovely Girl”). Just that one scene alone when he tells her the story of Gregor burning
his face, then asks rhetorically “You think you’re alone?”, was perfect. Years from now, “Every f–cking chicken in this room” will be remembered as the most iconic scene on the show.
Yeah, I’ve enjoyed Emilia’s performance throughout. She has so many scenes where she has to convey strength and a proper queenly demeanor to earn respect as a young girl. Those come off as emotionless much of time, but I think that’s exactly what they’ve wanted her to do rather than a knock on her performance. Then there are some when she’s allowed to be a bit less restrained, such as the Theon/Yara meeting, but scenes have been rare when she’s able to just be a woman and let out her true feelings and emotions. Maybe we’ll see more of that in S7.
I agree! He’s a great actor and I’m certain he played the HS exactly as they wanted him to, and did it well. I believe the viewers were suppose to grow to dislike him and see him as a fanatical zealot of the Seven, even though he was facing off against schemers in the Red Keep. However, the smug looks and numerous long discussions with Cersei, Jaime, Olenna, Tommen, Margaery… it was too much and monotonous. I usually skip those scenes now when I replay.
Cool – would be a great casting! If Arya isn’t allowed to warg in GoT may as well have Maisie play a role where she can turn into a wolf. She may get typecast as “the girl who PLAYED wolf.” 😛
Mel,
In making a listing elsewhere of whom I thought were my favourite actors on the show, I forgot Kerry Ingram as Shireen – she was, indeed, very good. I hope that she too will make a successful tradition through teenage to adult roles.
Clob,
Interesting! I know there is (or was) something important about the phrase “Bad Wolf” in Doctor Who, so your theory clearly signals her continued involvement as Doctor, Companion, or indeed Big Bad. And if a new narrator is ever needed for a production of Prokofiev’s “Peter and the Wolf”, well, they know where to turn.
Bufferzone,
Wolfsbane? Used to repay the second of 3 deaths promised to Arya by Jaqen in S2. …
As for Dr. Who, they should just forget the Doctor and reboot the show as “The Adventures of Ashildr and Clara in Outer Space” starring Maisie Williams and Jenna Coleman.
I’m afraid I might list half of the cast as my favourite actors for their respective parts… but let’s see, although I might forget some people…
Maisie (it’s her appreciation thread, isn’t it?), Gwendoline, Lena, Rose Leslie, Diana Rigg, Kerry Ingram
Peter, Liam, Rory, Nikolaj, Alfie, Iwan (versatile actor, just watch Misfits and Vicious), Iain, Conleth, Beannie (can you imagine another Ned?), Charles Dance
Lots of appreciation for the actors who played the young versions of Ned and Hodor and also for Bella Ramsey – people might say her acting was one note, but remember the way her face softened when Davos began winning her trust.
Shy Lady Dragon,
Oh, I don’t see how anyone could say Bella R was one-note. Her inflection was perfect in both of her big scenes. Her sarcasm was perfect when she shut down Sansa. The way she sneered at Lord Glover during her “you refused the call” put-down was magnificent.
And to top it off, she flashed Jon that shy little smile as she sat down after proclaiming “He’s MY king, from this day until his last day!”
With 99 out of 100 child actresses, those two scenes would’ve come off as hoakey and gimmicky.
Finding not one but two child actresses with no experience who could pull off big scenes like Bella R and Maisie W was quite an accomplishment.
Shy Lady Dragon,
Allow me to to add some of my favorite castings:
James Cosmo (Jeor Mormont)
And let’s not forget some memorable bad guys:
Noah Taylor (Locke), who also played Dr. Carter in “Edge of Tomorrow” and the tech support guy in “Vanilla Sky”
Burn Gorman (Karl Tanner), who also played geeky scientist Dr. Gottlieb in Pacific Rim
Gotta commend Nina Gold and company for casting great, experienced Irish character actors, and the more challenging task of finding good child actors
Bufferzone,
In connection with many of the subjects in the 200+ comments in this thread ?, I found it interesting to re-read an interview Benioff and Weiss gave to Vanity Fair three years ago before Season 4 aired. The actual interview was conducted by Vanity Fair’s Jim Windolf for the April, 2014 issue but it was summarized and reproduced in full in an on-line article dated March 24, 2014 by Jim Celeste with the (sort of misleading) title “The Surprising Connection Between Game of Thrones and Monty Python.” (The only “connection” is that the original pilot for GoT was filmed at the same castle as the one shown in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.) The article provides an interesting “snapshot” of the showrunners’ state of mind after completing S3, discussed specific scenes, and
covers a wide range of other subjects, including:
•. Recollections of how challenging it was to find a child actress play Arya – like “trying to find a needle in a haystack”; reviewing hundreds of casting videos with thumbnail pictures emailed from Nina Gold in London; looking at a tiny thumbnail picture and thinking “there’s something interesting about that face”; clicking on the thumbnail, and watching the video of an actress who was “amazing”.
• Answering a question from the interviewer about the actor who plays Arya Stark “selling the joke of the wolf bread so beautifully”, Benioff responds: “She’s so good, that girl.”
• Acknowledging that it was “an extremely rare gift” to be able to go back and re-do the pilot episode, i.e. to “do the same thing twice,” [A luxury they haven’t had for the 59 episodes that followed.]
• Commending Gemma Whalen’s other work as a comedienne before she was cast in a dramatic role as Yara Greyjoy.
•. Appreciating the way Stephen Dillane delivered his [now-classic] “fewer” line.
•. Explaining the challenges of translating interior monologues and point-of-view narratives from the novels, without resorting to voiceovers.
• Along the same lines, emphasizing how “every single piece of characterization”, “every single element of s person” needs to “come out through their interactions with somebody else.”
• Having a definitive end in sight with a sense of a “control tower” guiding the story throughout; and being cognizant of the danger of a shoe becoming stagnant if it stretches on past its natural life.
There’s a whole lot more in the extensive interview. I just found it to be enlightening to re-read what they said between S3 and S4, now that we’re in between S6 and S7 and going into the home stretch.
Ten Bears,
Edit: danger of a “show”, not “shoe”, becoming stagnant;
“heading”, not “going” into the home stretch
Plus misc typos.
?
Ten Bears,
Those are very interesting quotes – thanks!
Ten Bears,
I myself thought Bella Ramsey was extraordinary, but I remember at least one person disliking her acting. I kept that in mind, although I don’t share their opinion. I remember Liam telling that it is customary to have rehearsals with child actors, but Bella was perfect at their very first meeting.
I was so pleased when I recognized Noah Taylor in Edge of Tomorrow, love when I can watch “the bad ones” in opposite kind of parts. By the way, Burn Gorman managed to embody a different type of disgusting in Bleak House, where I also admired Charles Dance.
Awww…I was rather enjoying the mental picture of a stretched-out, stagnant-smelling shoe!
I thought Bella’s performance was fine and good. She did what they asked her to do well. I do think a lot of people went a bit hog wild overboard on the praise though. It was a pretty small part with very few lines and didn’t require much range in emotion or acting. She sat in a chair, she sat on a horse with bitch-face, she stood up and sat down. For that she was a runaway winner of WotW’s best guest actress with 72% against second place Essie’s 20%. Little girl telling grown men they’re “babies” wins out I guess.
My, but this topic has legs, though to some extent since it disappeared into Older Posts we’ve been preaching to a mutual choir.
Bravo, everyone, for citing so many examples of the brilliant casting in GoT. There have probably been hundreds of large and small speaking roles! Truth to tell, I don’t think there’s a complete dud among them. I would never deign to make a pun, much less on Nina Gold’s name, but for Game of Thrones she clearly struck the mother lode.
Ten Bears, thank you for the info about that Vanity Fair interview, which I plan to read.
If you haven’t seen the two part video interview D&D did with Idaho Public Television last year, you should watch it. In it, their appreciation and admiration for Maisie are especially clear. They of course praise many of the actors, as well they should. WOTW featured it at http://watchersonthewall.com/david-benioff-d-b-weiss-creating-game-thrones/
Clob, as usual I concur with your points. IMO Essie Davis and Bella Ramsey were the casting discoveries of Season 6. Lyanna, however, was the catalyst of a hugely important and emotionally satisfying scene, and Bella brought it off beautifully. By comparison, Lady Crane ‘merely’ saved Arya’s soul (which all of us applaud with relief) and talent-spotted her as a good actress :-). Personally, I relished the theatre troupe scenes, with all their in-jokes and meta-meanings, but especially because Lady Crane also shed very interesting light on Cersei. Unfortunately, it doesn’t affect the larger picture as much as Lyanna’s scene, so many viewers didn’t really savour the richness of the LC scenes.
Stark Raven’ Rad,
Thanks ! I’ll check out that Idaho Public TV interview link. Im sure it will be interesting to compare what Benioff and Weiss said about the show last year, with their Vanity Fair interview statements before S4.
I always find it interesting to learn about the nuts and bolts of the production process. I have no background in the performing arts, but try to appreciate how much hard work by so many talented people, behind the scenes and in front of the camera, imust be required to make a high quality one-hour TV episode.
Rewatching my favorite GoT scenes is entertaining, but it’s also an opportunity to see if I can pinpoint what exactly makes them so engrossing.
For instance, I can rewatch over and over that scene in which Stannis offers to legitimize Jon Snow (telling him something like “lay your sword at my feet, pledge me your services, and rise again as Jon Stark, Lord of Winterfell”, and it never loses its emotional impact. Part of it is Stephen Dillane’s convincing delivery, and part of it is GRRM’s writing.
I always like to hear about the showrunners’ perspective (even when I get the feeling that what I saw on the screen didn’t coincide with what they’re telling me they were showing.)
Again, thanks for the link.
Stark Raven’ Rad,
I like the mutual choir. ? Everyone’s got something interesting to say.
Clob,
Reply to Clob and Stsrk Raven Rad about Essie Davis vs. Bella Ramsey:
Please indulge me while I play armchair psychologist, because I’m one of the many who felt that by any objective measure Essie Davis was far and away the best guest actress – and yet when the time came to vote I clicked on the circle next to Bella Ramsey’s name.
You could tell Essie Davis is a truly gifted stage actress by the way she delivered her lines in the play: While some of the other troupe actors were (deliberately) delivering their rhymes in an exaggerated fashion or for comic effect, Essie as faux Cersei came off as natural, believable and sincere.
It reminded me of Claire Danes in Baz Luhrmann’s Romeo + Juliet: Leonardo DiCaprio and just about every other cast member recited their lines as if they were reading Shakespeare in a high school English class. But Claire Danes lived and breathed Juliet’s words.
Essie Davis had the same natural grace, she inhabited her character, whether playing two different versions of Cersei on stage in the play-within-a-show, or playing the troupe actress Lady Crane off stage.
And Essie D as Lady Crane practically radiated empathy, curiosity, and warmth in her interaction with Arya asking how Arya would rewrite the grieving Cersei scene, noticing Arya’s expressive eyes, and pointedly asking if Arya liked to pretend to be other people. I could’ve watched a whole episode of just the two of them continuing that conversation.
But that was kind of the problem: it didn’t last long enough. And their next interaction – Lady Crane stitching up Arya and tucking her into bed – didn’t last very long either. The next time we – and Arya – saw Lady Crane, she was dead on the floor. A few more extended scenes between the two of them would’ve been great – and much more captivating than stick-fighting the Waif.
Also, Lady Crane was an “adjunct”.to Arya, i.e. the play focused on Arya’s reactions to the distortion of historical events on the stage, and the backstage scenes appeared designed to show that Arya still retained her humanity and was incapable of being a mindless assassin without a conscience.
So, the brevity of Essie D’s scenes, and functioning as a foil (or mirror) for Arya, might have diluted the impact of her magnificent acting.
Finally, there was an undercurrent of sadness in the Lady Crane-Arya scenes. Not to get too profound, but they were in s sense a meditation on grief: a mother mourning her child, and a girl mourning her mother and father. (Lady Crane gently touching Arya’s hand as she fell asleep – a “motherly” gesture – was undoubtedly intended to remind the viewer of the motherly affection Arya had been deprived of since S1E1.) To have Arya wake up to see this surrogate maternal figure murdered was a sad and abrupt end to the Lady Crane-Arya pairing.
Sadness and sorrow are not exactly big, splashy inspiring themes.
Lady Crane’s sudden death dashed viewers” hopes that Arya might accept Lady Crane’s invitation to join the acting troupe and travel with them to Westeros. It also dashed any hopes that we’d see more of Essie Davis Had we been left with an upbeat scene with the tantalizing prospect of a Lady Crane-Arya Stark traveling road show, viewers/voters might have been more enthusiastic.
Still, Essie Davis should’ve been the clear choice – were it not for the Lady Mormont/Bella Ramsey juggernaut.
Here’s why I think she won in a landslide ( and it’s not because she was “cute” and tiny)
…
…
[To be cont.
My sincere apologies yet again: Edit functions aren’t working, so I can’t condense this]
Hey gang–a Brit pal sent me this. On Valentines Day No One gave Mona Lisa a run for her money .
http://www.express.co.uk/celebrity-news/767172/Game-of-Thrones-Maisie-Williams-boyfriend-Instagram
Good for you, Maisie! I do hope our lovely girl is happy.
Stark Raven’ Rad,
Preface to Continuation of 2/15/17 Comment re: Essie Davis vs. Bella Ramsey (S6 WoW Best Guest Actress Voting Results)
• A strange sense of deja vu came over me when I was getting ready to finish my post-mortem analysis of the results of the Essie Davis vs. Bella Ramsey Best Guest Actress voting.
• I realized I was trying to explain how the first candidate, a classically trained, highly acclaimed, talented veteran of the stage and screen with a quarter century track record of accomplishments, had lost to a 10 year-old child with no experience.
• From exit polls (i.e. comments accompanying WoW final voting post) the winning candidate’s appeal to the electorate was based on her snarky put-downs; her speech shaming her countrymen as cowardly and unpatriotic; and repitition of a populist catch phrase touting Northern exceptionalism and rejecting recognition of outsiders in favor of the restoration of its own nativist monarchic tradition.
Hmmm….
Ten Bears,
Oooo… I think you might be onto something. Not to say that either the character of Lyanna Mormont or the actress deserves to be tarred with such an orange brush, but the appeal to many voters of a Tweet-length, oversimplified, jingoistic, soundbite-friendly message cannot be denied.
THIS JUST IN:
In March, MAISIE AND Sophie coming to SXSW with D&D!!! Back when SXSW was new, I went one time, staying with friends in Austin. It was easy to get in and fairly inexpensive. Now it’s wildly popular, very complicated and no doubt expensive, but I’m going to look into it. My father’s health may prevent me from going anyway, but maybe one of you can.