Looking Forward, Game of Thrones Season 7: HBO and the Spinning Wheel of Spinoffs

Jaime Lannister (Nikolaj Coster-Waldau) and Cersei Lannister (Lena Headey). Photo: Helen Sloan/HBO

Jaime Lannister (Nikolaj Coster-Waldau) and Cersei Lannister (Lena Headey). Photo: Helen Sloan/HBO

Glad tidings, oh ye weary Game of Thrones fanbase traveler and welcome back to another installment of the vocal minority’s favorite off-season time killer.

At long last, we have a trailer as well as runtimes and loads of pics for our abbreviated season of Game of How Do We Extend This Once D&D Take a Well-Deserved Early Retirement?

In a normal Oz post, we typically peruse the possibilities of the upcoming Season without the knowledge of books or leaks or other spoilerish summations. But today, a man is looking further forward than ever before, because let’s be honest… HBO doesn’t want to lose us.

Disclaimer: For all of you Wall newbies (Wallbies?): You have entered the realm of the Unsullied; where show fact and written fiction are separated by a man with only a television and a moderately priced subscription to Home Box Office. My oath states that no books may be read until the conclusion of the show, and a man is nothing if he is not an oathkeeper.

This also includes all forms of leaks, confirmed or un, as well as spoilery content sometimes supplied on this here very site. As a result, such information is strictly forbidden in the text and commentary below.

If you were looking for a safe place to speculate about Season 7 without being spoiled, then welcome to the party, pal. Oz posts are a certified safe space.

As Unsullied, we must dine on what is served by buffet curators David and Dan only. And dammit, a man is hungry. But to achieve winter, we must wait until summer. And the wait is almost over.

Originally, this post did include some Season 7 speculation. But the hostess with the mostess, a.k.a Sue of House Fury, correctly suggested that it be divided into separate posts. This is why she is the Editor-in-Chief and Oz is not.  Thus, a man gives you an abbreviated LF. The good news (depending on your POV) is that it means there will be another LF next week. So, call your friends.

Let’s talk spinoffs.

The power and draw of Game of Thrones are undeniable and will likely be remembered in television history and lore as one of the most groundbreaking series ever to grace the small screen. Regardless of your opinion on writing, directing and adaptation, it will go down as a relatively large risk that ended up netting HBO a Casterly Rock of riches. And there’s a lot to be said for that alone.

Game-of-Thrones

We could mull over a swath of data to support this claim. But at the end of the day, the one number that matters the most to HBO going forward is fairly obvious…

Subscribers.

Upper management at Home Box Office clearly recognizes what GoT has done and understand the importance of subscriber retainage. And the one thing they want to avoid in the end is a heavy dose of attrition.

Although it’s nearly impossible to ascertain the exact reason why subscribers initially choose to subscribe (as there are a number of factors to entertain), the trend speaks for itself.

Screen Shot 2017-05-05 at 12.35.37 PM

Credit: Statista

Game of Thrones debuted in 2011 and ever since, HBO has enjoyed a marked and leveled increase in the number of $15 monthly increments they collect.  A portion of that can be attributed to accessibility (HBO NOW, HBO GO, HBO TO and FRO).  Another portion could be given to the programming unrelated to Westeros and Essos pre-2014. But make no mistake, most of it is GoT. None of the other programming introduced since 2014 seems to have aided in an increase, and that should be troubling for upper management.

At best, the accompanying programming assisted with retainage. But even then, subscriber numbers have seemingly plateaued.

What is unclear (or not publicly published) is the number of subscribers that cancel as soon as a respective season of GoT ends. But HBO does understand that they have tapped into a different strain of viewer and want to do what they can to keep them honest. They also realize that this group (us, basically) is largely fickle and as part of that high-risk demographic, they stand to lose a substantial (in relative terms) amount of unloyalists once the Game is over. Stopping the bleeding before it starts seems to be high on the priority list, as one would expect.

My uneducated guess, which is backed by absolutely nothing scientific, is that the brass at HBO have a magic number that they are willing to swallow if necessary. Assuming GoT attrition, going from 134M to 128M would likely be somewhat celebratory. Worst case they would want would probably be around the 120M mark which would be a sizeable loss at around a 10% decrease, and would put it right smack dab in the middle of the 2012-13 numbers.

westworld-game-of-thrones

Obviously, sustaining the current subscriber number (or even increasing it) would be preferable. The investment in Westworld and the accompanying superstar cast is just the first step in an attempt in maintaining what some say is the peak of HBO, especially considering the multitudes of competition that have entered the Game of original programming since the dawn of GoT (the rise of Netflix, Amazon, etc. and God knows how many more on the horizon).

This is what the TV industry refers to as a saturated market.

So, what do we get? A spin-off. One that needs be timely in relation to the endgame to avoid a major defection, which may be the underlying motive to this. In case you missed it, that article essentially says that the showrunners could be working on Season 8 for the next year and a half, putting the premiere of the final installments sometime in 2019.

And while HBO’s Casey Bloys doesn’t confirm or deny it, he does state that “they have to write the episodes and figure out the production schedule.” But that’s nothing new. Maybe this is due to David and Dan burnout. Maybe the epicness of the endgame will take extra time in filming and post-production. Or maybe this is a simply a stalling tactic in order to give the spinoff team more time for development.

Regardless, we are getting one. And just one, for now anyway.

As a non-book reader, my educated guess on what it will be is largely uneducated, and therefore I defer to the experts. But historically with spinoffs, the primary goal is to build on the characters or descendants of the characters that the viewer already has an established relationship with.

Of course, here in GoT land, HBO’s biggest issue will be appealing to and retaining the casual GoT viewer (i.e. the ones that have no outside knowledge of GRRM’s world other than what has been displayed on Game of Thrones… which is most of them).

And since it has been made clear that whatever is selected as a spin-off will be a prequel, HBO will have to do their duty to associate the appeal all while making those casual viewers understand why they are not creating a story about Arya 30 years after the GoT finale that centers on teaching her children how to change their faces to avoid punishment when they get in trouble at school. Arya done with your homework?

Aryabetter

However, if HBO was in the mood to give us a continuation of current characters, here is my short list of ones that probably wouldn’t work, but might be entertaining for at least half of an episode.

arya_stark_and_the_hound___disney_got_collection_by_nandomendonssa-d7k15q9

The Stark and the HoundDisney-Game-of-Thrones

Yes, this one is old and abused but worth bringing back up since “spinoff” has come into play. The concept art is already done, for crying out loud.  It would have to be an “adult swim” type deal. Don’t let Disney get a hold of it. Just look what they’ve done to Tangled the Series and you will wholeheartedly agree.

 

Robert-Baratheon

The Adventures of Rebellious Roberto

HBO’s attempt at diversification.

But in all seriousness, this one made the most sense in keeping the commonality of the characters we know. HBO already has flashbacks and the associated actors to build on. But according to GeRM, it ain’t happening, which is unfortunate. I mean, who wouldn’t want to see Arthur Dayne fight again?

TowerOfJoyFight

Photo: HBO / Helen Sloan

Photo: HBO / Helen Sloan

Jaime Loves Cersei

Through some type of Westerosi miracle, Cersei is mercifully relieved of her duties as Queen and allowed to go live at Casterly Rock with Jaime for the rest of her days. However, the conditions are that she may never leave the Rock and can never drink wine again.

Like I said… interesting for about half an episode.

Here’s the first of my personal submissions…

maxresdefault

Davos and Mel: Love is Hell

HBO has ordered the pilot already and Liam is in. I’m hoping to convince Carice at Con of Thrones.

And the second (which is the top vote-getter from the Ozlings)…

Stark

Full House Stark

Assuming they all survive (which is one hell of an assumption), this semi-dramatic sitcom follows the surviving Stark kids and their antics living in Winterfell, post-Great War. The only fly in the ointment is that pesky Uncle Petyr who is a bored practical joker that constantly sets up internal conflicts between the siblings, inciting a ladda of chaos.

Don’t lie. You would watch.

The bad news is that once Season 8 is done, these characters are most likely gone for good. The good news is that we won’t have to suffer through any ill-fated horrific spinoff ideas ruining our view of the current characters forever. You know, like Joanie Loves Chachi (RIP Erin Moran).

We should thank HBO for that at least. I’ll tune in regardless. But HBO still has to find that dot to connect for the casual folk.

That’s it for me today, ladies and sers! I hope this post finds you all well and persevering until the overdue premiere date. I don’t know what the hell we will do if Season 8 doesn’t come until 2019.

If you happen to be coming to the Nashville Con at the end of the month, please let a man know! If you are on the fence about it, don’t be. Just come on. You can sleep in Sue’s room. We shall meet and greet and find food to eat. All men (and women) must dine. And may there always be peace in your realm…

-Oz

“Unbowed. Unbent. Unsullied.”

Follow Oz on Twitter

102 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. Night King and Co would be great spin off…. mindless tea parties with the free folk and internet banter with the night’s watch… I’d watch that

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    2. I want to know more about the creation of the Wall and Bran the Builder and all the scary sh!t from Old Nan’s Least Loved Bedtime Stories.

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    3. I’m coming to the Con, Oz, for the sole purpose of seeing you and Lyssa in the same room! I can’t wait! And I’d love to buy you a beverage.

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    4. I wouldn’t hate a Bar Rescue or Tabatha’s Salon Takeover type show in which Tyrion and Olenna take over struggling businesses and snark on the incompetent bosses and employees. Brothel Rescue maybe?

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    5. As I’ve mentioned before, “The Rise and Fall of the Legendary Shitmouth of House Clegane” would be a remarkable tale of wordplay and chivalry.

      “Though the one they called Shitmouth had the foulest tongue she had ever heard, he’d give you an extra piece of bread if you asked, while jolly old Chiswyck and soft spoken Raff would just give you the back of their hand.”
      – Arya Stark

      (sorry, bookstuff…but it deserves recognition. 🙂 Interesting ideas, Oz!)

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    6. I’ll wait until the end of GoT before I know what my personal choice for a spin-off would be. I feel like however the ending goes might influence what story I’d be most interested in visiting/revisiting.

      Although, as I’ve said previously, right now I’d be most interested in a cooking show spin-off with Hot Pie 🙂

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    7. “Or maybe this is simply a stalling tactic in order to give the spinoff team more time for development.”

      I think you are right, ser. I hope more Thrones-only subscribers are trying other HBO shows and realizing that the network has so much more to offer. I’ve yet to watch an HBO drama series I didn’t like.

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    8. If you want to see how the world of ASOIAF is written without D an D or GRRM,play the Telltale game or watch an youtube walktrough . Spoiler alert:It’s trash ! Unless they get some really good writers that could handle the spinoff,preferably not the guy that wrote that King Kong movie,i won’t care about it .

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    9. Thus, a man gives you an abbreviated LF.

      I read this as “an abbreviated Littlefinger”. Which is something I am very much hoping for this season. Specifically about 12 inches from the top. Down with Lysa-Killer!

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    10. QueenofThrones,

      LMAOOO!!!

      I saw a personalized license plate yesterday that read “LVNGLF” and immediately thought, “Who the hell loves Littlefinger?!” We’re the biggest nerds here. Neeerrrdddsss!

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    11. Wolfish:
      QueenofThrones,
      LMAOOO!!!

      I saw a personalized license plate yesterday that read “LVNGLF” and immediately thought, “Who the hell loves Littlefinger?!” We’re the biggest nerds here. Neeerrrdddsss!

      Bwahaha… Amazing.

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    12. Anything with Drunk Cersei, because she’s the best! Her appearances in the Red Keep (during “Blackwater”) and at the Purple Wedding (before it changed to that color) were some of my absolute favorites of the entire ~70 hours of television so far. Her incredulous inquiry of Brienne — “Did you just bow?” — and Brienne’s stately reply may well be my favorite bit of dialog which does not involve Oleanna Tyrell.

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    13. QueenofThrones,

      Oh, as for an “abbreviated” Weaselfinger, I’m praying to the Old Gods and the New that he gets the Full Theon treatment throughout Season 7, including placing his severed appendage in a gift box mailed to Sansa to feed the denizens of the WF kennels, or shipped to Varys to give to his crated sorcerer for barbecuing.

      For humiliating and murdering our dear Lysa, no death could be slow or agonizing enough.

      (As you can tell, I detest the character and his portrayal.)

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    14. Oz, it’s not a matter of “should” – GRRM stated that none of these potential prequels are Robert’s Rebellion, and explicitly, none of them will feature characters who we know from the main series who were alive in it. Also no Dunk & Egg.

      Actually, I think I can narrow down the prequel ideas fairly well (assuming it’s not a totally new idea), based on what exists as a “narrative” in source material:

      First, nothing from the preceding century – no Robert’s Rebellion or Dunk & Egg. He confirmed that.

      Dunk & Egg covers the entire “Blackfyre Rebellions era” across 50 years, INCLUDING the first. Much like Robert’s Rebellion, the First Blackfyre Rebellion is mentioned in flashback as background for Dunk & Egg and makes no sense as a long-form prequel series. Note how even the D&E comic covered it via flashback.

      Preceding that we got the reign of Aegon IV the Unworthy, which Martin has said COULD be a Blackadder-style story of root for the bad guy (think “The Tudors”), BUT Martin also confirmed via comments section that this isn’t one of the prequels.

      What you have to do is look at the story “chunks”, novellas, from the unpublished “Fire and Blood” that Martin sent to Elio & Linda to write as “The World of Ice and Fire”:

      1 – The Targaryen Conquest and the First Dornish War

      2 – The Sons of the Dragon and the Faith Militant uprising

      3 – The Dance of the Dragons

      4 – The Regency era of Aegon III (filled with political plots)

      The reign of Jaehaerys I, between the Faith Militant uprising and Dance, isn’t a narrative to tell, so he wrote little on it (it’s an era of peace). So that won’t be a prequel.

      Judging by this…

      Well, “the Regency” wouldn’t work as a prequel to just dive into. It would be a SEQUEL to the Dance of the Dragons — all the survivors go on to grow up and scheme against each other. So while we could get that eventually, we won’t get it first. I mean the Targaryen Conquest is about 10,000 words long….The Dance is 80,000, and the Regency (most of it still unreleased) is “nearly 60,000 words”). So Regency is a big era, but they won’t do it.

      Meanwhile…you COULD do Sons of the Dragon as part of “The Conquest” because the elderly Visenya is in it. But to do it BEFORE the Conquest? Silly.

      I think they could do a 4-5 year Targaryen Conquest series, then a 4-5 year Faith Militant uprising series about the Sons of the Dragon (Martin himself has said “there’s maybe 3 whole books worth of storyline around Maegor the Cruel). So one would be a sequel to the other.

      The Dance of the Dragons…happens after a long gape of peace, so you actually could drop into that “cold”, without doing Conquest first.

      Beyond that, you could PLAUSIBLY also do “Conquest of Dorne Era”….like Blood of Dragons on Westeros.org….BUT it’s so much overlap with the First Dornish War they might as well do the Targaryen Conquest first.

      Meanwhile, Martin has said that at least one of these stories isn’t even set in Westeros.

      Odds on favorite for that is the Rhoynish Wars, fall of the Rhoynar, Nymeria’s 10,000 ships, then the Rhoynar migration/conquest of Dorne. It’s kind of like the Aeneid.

      For those who say “Doom of Valyria”….how is that…”a narrative”?

      If you want “Valyria at its height”, though…yeah, you’d want Nymeria and the Rhoynar. I mean, Battle of Volantis – largest land army ever assembled, a quarter of a million Rhoynar, getting hammered by THREE HUNDRED Valyrian dragons?

      So my guesses are:

      1 – Targaryen Conquest/First Dornish War
      …..2 – Sons of the Dragon (probably as a sequel to the Conquest)

      3 – Dance of the Dragons

      4 – Nymeria and the Rhoynar

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    15. Ten Bears:

      including placing his severed appendage in a gift box mailed to Sansa to feed the denizens of the WF kennels

      Um, I’m rarely down with mass slaughter of animals, but I’m hoping there are no more “denizens of the Winterfell kennels.” I just can’t imagine that dogs that have been trained to hunt, kill and eat people could be of any use to anyone other than the late and certainly unlamented last Bolton.

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    16. The Dragon Demands,

      I rather they don’t adapt any of the trash that Elio or Linda had to do especially after what they said about the show or the actors,more specifically Linda . It would be a disrespect to the people that have worked on the main series for so many years and i don’t care what GRRM says,they aren’t good writers,not at all .

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    17. Mr Derp,

      Me too! As I’ve also said previously, I’d be up for “Hot Pie Presents: The Great American Bake-Off.”

      I’d also love an Arya & The Hound cartoon. Maisie W and Rory M have such distinctive voices and great chemistry. The only challenge would be to clean up Sandor’s vocabulary so it’s suitable for Saturday morning. (I’d rather have my kids learn spelling and math from cartoon Arya & The Hound, than Ernie & Burt.)

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    18. Ten Bears:
      QueenofThrones,
      Oh, as for an “abbreviated” Weaselfinger, I’m praying to the Old Gods and the New that he gets the Full Theon treatment throughout Season 7, including placing his severed appendage in a gift box mailed to Sansa to feed the denizens of the WF kennels, or shipped to Varys to give to his crated sorcerer for barbecuing.

      For humiliating and murdering our dear Lysa, no death could be slow or agonizing enough.

      (As you can tell, I detest the character and his portrayal.)

      Oh I love the character and Aiden’s portryal, I want LF to die because he does such a damn good job of being a total slimy villain @#$*. Been anticipating his demise since I read ASOS… what, 15 years ago? Only a matter of time now! It better be satisfying though…

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    19. Gucci Robert,

      Hear hear – after what she’s said and. done I refuse to buy that book since Lindaaa will profit from it. I trust the writers HBO has chosen to come up with something really creative. It may take place in a setting discussed in AWOIAF but I bet a lot of the characters and the central story arcs will be totally original. Like if they do the conquest, tell the story from the perspective of one of the houses the will eventually get obliterated, or the smallfolk, not the boring Targaryen trio.

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    20. Ten Bears: The only challenge would be to clean up Sandor’s vocabulary so it’s suitable for Saturday morning. (I’d rather have my kids learn spelling and math from cartoon Arya & The Hound, than Ernie & Burt.)

      Ten Bears,

      Introductory math problem #1: A man has four limbs. Arya cuts off both arms. How many limbs are left?

      #2: A Lannister soldier has a dozen chickens. How many chickens are left after the Hound arrives?

      And the Hound could say “fookin” and it technically wouldn’t be a swear word. Baby steps for the Hound.

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    21. Wolfish,

      So sorry. Lame attempt at satirical humor, and edit feature isn’t working lately so I couldn’t delete when I had second thoughts.

      Obviously, the Starks will humanely euthanize Ramsay’s “loyal beasts.” Everything about the Boltons “will disappear”, as Sansa promised.

      Besides, there is only room for one Hound in WF.

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    22. Ten Bears: I’d also love an Arya & The Hound cartoon. Maisie W and Rory M have such distinctive voices and great chemistry. The only challenge would be to clean up Sandor’s vocabulary so it’s suitable for Saturday morning.

      While that’s fine too, I’d go for adult animated shows of additional stories/spinoffs that aren’t chosen for live action series. I’m talking about top quality, realistic style animation. That is expensive but not quite like live action and fewer restrictions. I don’t think HBO has had an animated series in a while and hasn’t had one quite like this could be…

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    23. Maybe there is a way that HBO could get even higher ratings & for everyone to see they’re favorite story told?
      What about a series, ‘Inn at the Crossroads’:
      Hot Pie & his family run the Inn after the Winter War. They have different guests from all over Planetos staying there & narrating stories of their travels, their lives, & ancient tales about their lands.
      I’m picturing Hot Pie cooking, his wife running the place, a brood of their kids sitting around a ktchn table or in front of a fire place, listening to stories told by characters near & far.
      I like the idea of a twilight zone/Alfred Hitchcock vibe going on. Maybe GRRM could introduce ea episode or be a guest story teller?
      The i!portant thing is that all the histories & lore could be covered, a different one ea episode. Maybe certain stories take more than one ep. The current cast could do special guest episodes.
      Maybe the Hound & Ayra cover security for the place lol? I would especially love Tyrion, Brienne, Pod, Davos, etc., to be a part, but I realize those actors are probably all ready to move on.

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    24. Wolfish,

      Hoh,hoh,that was only a glimpse of what she is capable of, you should have read her old tumblr that i think she deleted because even she saw how damaging it is for image, i think someone still stored some of her messages somewhere . To be fair that tweet is fairly harmless compared to the disrespectful things she said about David and Dan and Lena Headey .

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    25. Gucci Robert,
      Now I remember why I’ve avoided reading any of her personal opinions all these years.

      – and what the hell is the deal with her twitter? All those pictures make her look like she’s a horny 13 year old boy

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    26. Gucci Robert,

      The tumblr still exists, although the last post was in 2015. 90 seconds of it is more than enough; as a book reader I have quite a few problems with the adaptation, but I can certainly critique without being venomous about it. And at the end of the day, I have come to love the show as a different iteration of the same great story.

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    27. Wolfish: I can certainly critique without being venomous about it

      It’s certainly acceptable for anyone and everyone to critique the show. What I’ll never understand is that level you label appropriately as venomous. It’s one thing to love the book series but it’s yet another thing to then hate on the show so vehemently. They’ve done an awesome job adapting the books and I think there’s more than enough to back that up. It isn’t and can’t be perfect of course and would it actually be better if there never was a show at all??

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    28. Clob,

      Critical is one thing but what i don’t understand is why does she act like a moody teenager instead of a grown ass woman,some of the personal insults stuff makes me cringe .

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    29. Not sure if this has been mentioned yet…but…
      How could you not include “I love Sansa”, the misadventures of a snarky emotional redhead prone to half-truths and her hot-headed brother-hubby? Imagine what happens when she tries to make 100 lemon cakes for a feast with the help of her lady knight, who also happens to be in a volatile relationship with another ginger…??? They even have a kid named little Jonny. You’d watch it! Don’t lie!

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    30. My favorite thing about this very funny piece is that it’s infused with the giddy enthusiasm that is a trademark of the one and only Oz of Thrones.

      And no, he did not buy me a round to say that. At least not yet.

      Cheers mate! (^-^)_日

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    31. OZ!!!!!! So glad to have you back! Thanks for the amusing post. Looking forward to the next one already. Best wishes to Ozette and the Ozlings!

      I’ll give anything that the team decides to put out there at least one season. Its not like we’ll have any SoIaF books to read, so…

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    32. What about Ser Bronn of the Blackwater ad the Dwarf. If you want more of a comedy prequel.

      If a road trip like situation, then The She-Wolf and the Hound.

      If a bit more serious Jorah the Andal vs love.

      And if want a musical or simply more of a Disney version. Let it Snow ft the White Walkers.

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    33. Clob,

      She would lose one of her jobs if there is no show at all.
      The most annoying thing for me is that she keeps making money working for the show she hates so much and I believe she still gets to have those special invites to attend the premiere and such things.

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    34. Gucci Robert:
      Clob,

      Critical is one thing but what i don’t understand is why does she act like a moody teenager instead of a grown ass woman,some of the personal insults stuff makes me cringe .

      Indeed… She’s a foul mouthed bitch and surprised that GRRM still has anything to do with her! Now that GoT has overtaken the books and there is no source material to compare the TV show with, I would have thought Lindaaaa would have lost some of her arrogance and smugness, but not so!

      After S5 ended, both her and Elio decided enough was enough and not to continue making weekly videos breaking down each episode. However, when S6 aired, Linda changed her mind and to continue reviewing episodes without Elio and those videos being somewhat shorter in time to those they did previously.

      Nothing changed and out poured the vitriol and bile aimed primarily at B&W with seldom a good comment about any episode. I recall she was very vocal and well pissed off regarding the scene of The Waif stabbing Arya on the bridge and how the fuck did she managed to survive an attack like that. Also how did two of the Sandsnakes get down to Kings Landing and kill their brother Tristan on the boat in the harbor… The LF ‘Jetpack’ theory again 😉

      Scenes in GoT glide seamlessly change from one to another although in real time, perhaps days or weeks may have passed between them. However, for an hour long episode, events have to be compressed down and this is something that Linda just doesn’t seem to understand. 🙂

      I think the bottom line is she simply enjoys having this bad ass attitude, slagging off the show runners and the actors and never has a good word to say about anything which is not close to ‘book canon’.

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    35. Shy Lady Dragon,

      Shy Lady D, some people have in fact criticised Lena Headey for being blonde. Apparently she does have the green eyes though (book Cersei has green eyes). Obviously not every actor/actress will please every viewer. There’s been some Emilia and Sophie dislike from commenters on this website but I personally don’t mind E and S. I laugh sometimes when some folk have suggested Charlize Theron (who is an attractive lady) as an alternative casting for Cersei (for the reason Cersei should be played by a natural blonde) but if this article from a British paper is to be believed she was originally brunette http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/charlize-theron-looks-unrecognisable-brunette-5703080.

      I’d like to echo the sentiments of the commenters who say it’s nice to have another post from Oz. The idea one commenter made about an animated series might have legs. Before he was despatched from Planetos Ser Alliser said something to the effect Jon Snow would be fighting other peoples’ battles all his life – what about the further adventures of Jon Snow – something like the medieval works of Chretien de Troyes such as “Yvain” (though not in old French of course). They might have to find someone else to voice Jon Snow though because I suspect Kit Harrington may want to branch out after some years as Jon Snow.

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    36. Black Raven: However, for an hour long episode, events have to be compressed down and this is something that Linda just doesn’t seem to understand.

      Listen,. she does not know that westeros and what happens on TV is fake, and acting lol

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    37. Shy Lady Dragon,

      It was something about her eyebrow thing she does and how she is not a good actress because she doesn’t play Cersei like her one dimensional book counterpart,oh and also because she hasn’t read the books,because for an actor to be good he/she has to read the source material,she didn’t take into consideration that actors,especially seasoned ones like Lena with children to take care off and working on multiple projects,might not have time to read 5000 pages novels .

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    38. Gucci Robert,

      Linda is very see through.. She *specifically* despises actors who are often credited by the fandom for improving on their book counterparts..
      Which is why she has such a passionate hatred of Lena Headey and Natalie Dormer.

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    39. Dame of Mercia,

      This is maybe because I read the books after having binged the first season, but I find Lena a very good choice for playing Cersei – I myself don’t know a better one – which is also true for the entire cast. I like Charlize, but I can’t imagine her as Cersei. Lena is amazing combining wicked and fun.

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    40. Gucci Robert,

      Thanks! So, basically, rubbish. I was curious what this rubbish is about this time and I didn’t feel like looking through her comments.
      Imo for an actor the source material is the script.

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    41. Shy Lady Dragon,

      Lena brings a much more reserved quality to Cersei. In the books, Cersei is a hot headed spit fire, and in general is disturbingly paranoid. Lena plays the character as far more reserved, cold, and calculating. And Lena usually brings a certain broken quality to the character. I am not sure I quite got that feeling from the books.

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    42. Dame of Mercia,

      The young brunette Charlize pictures give me a young Madonna vibe.
      I remember I saw her brunette in Aeon Flux, a SF movie I don’t remember anything about. When I think at Charlize “in her youth” for me it’s Sweet November.

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    43. HelloThere,

      No, the character is quite different in the books. I prefer the show character as I find it more interesting and believable as a person, being it disturbed or not.

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    44. Dame of Mercia: I laugh sometimes when some folk have suggested Charlize Theron (who is an attractive lady) as an alternative casting for Cersei (for the reason Cersei should be played by a natural blonde) but if this article from a British paper is to be believed she was originally brunette

      I can see that: what always ruined Star Trek for me is that they didn’t get a real Vulcan to play Spock.

      Seriously, these sorts of criteria are pretty silly. Besides, the vast majority of adults with blonde hair get that color through chemistry other than biochemistry, so she probably is not a natural blonde. True blonde hair in adults actually is pretty rare: and then it tends to be really pale “straw” colored rather than the “golden” Lannister hair. (“Golden” hair used to be more common when people got more sun: but the golden hairs of yesteryear are light brown or “dishwater” among the modern “I don’t want skin-cancer and/or work in an office 50 hours a week” crowd!)

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    45. HelloThere: No, the character is quite different in the books. I prefer the show character as I find it more interesting and believable as a person, being it disturbed or not.

      HelloThere: I actually believe that the characterization of Cersei is the shows strongest achievement

      Show!Cersei is certainly a heck of a lot less foolish than Book!Cersei: the latter is the archetype for the left side of the Dunning-Kruger cure. One thing that I think that they did very well was, for the first 6 years, have Cersei played as if she just laughing at everyone. The “so-called experts” thought that their cunning and knowledge made them competitors with her, but she understood the simple truth: power is power.

      What fit in well with that was how stilted and subdued Cersei was last year. Her basic operating premise – you cannot play the Game with me because you are not a Lannister – got shattered, and now she’s gone from seeing through rose-colored glasses to just plain illusions!

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    46. Dee Stark: Listen,. she does not know that westeros and what happens on TV is fake, and acting lol

      Very true – She lives in Cloud Cuckoo Land! Out of curiosity, I looked at some of her recent tweets which were all images of fantasy art. Amongst those there was a recent image of Cersei sitting on the iron throne and she made a derogatory comment about that saying she looked constipated!

      Linda has always despised Lena Heady for her portrayal of Cersei. I reckon she’s the one who is constipated and forever spouting a load of shit from her foul mouth 🙂

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    47. Oz of Thrones,
      And thank you too.

      And I think a better title for the Stark sitcom would be House Half-full of Stark. Since, well, most of them are dead.

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    48. D’oh, and now to post what I intended to post!

      I honestly have no idea what they can do that will bring back a big chunk of the viewing audience. I know that GRRM has set up loose histories, but they trying to tell a story within an existing plot (rather than creating a plot to guide a story) can border on folly. They really will need to build everything from scratch. To this end, does it even matter if it is set in this universe? Story X set in Westeros will be just as good/bad as Story X set in some new fictional world, and I honestly do not know that just the link of having it in the same world will be enough to “prime the pump” (to use a term not coined by the tangerine australopithecine….).

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    49. Shy Lady Dragon:
      Gucci Robert,

      What can one say against Lena? I can’t imagine. That she’s not a natural blond?

      …Well I don’t like what the writers did WITH Lena, with the fictional character Cersei that she plays, but I’m not against “Lena Headey” the actress. She doesn’t get to make those decisions.

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    50. Laura Souza,

      Thanks! I’ve got all kinds of ideas for possible episodes.
      & thanks so much to WotW for this site & to Oz for another fun article as usual 😀
      What episode would you like to see played out on ‘Inn at the Crossroads’ (working title may need freshened up lol)?
      The 1st season could begin right after the war, with whatever survivors are left. Maybe some Dothraki, unsullied, Westorosi southern soldiers, etc, head south and stay at the inn. Many episodes could feature a different soldier telling their version of the war they just went through & the ancient tales/mythology from where they come from. Ending with them leaving the inn.
      In the meantime, Hot Pie & his wife discuss current events on safety, food/supplies & hearing news about rebuilding & so forth of the common people, as well as what has happened to major houses & castles including Winterfell & Kings Landing.

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    51. The Dragon Demands: with the fictional character Cersei that she plays, but I’m not against “Lena Headey” the actress. She doesn’t get to make those decisions.

      Book!Cersei would have gotten panned: she’s just a little to under-the-bottom dumb, and probably would have been seen as just “evil queen.” It basically would be like watching a bleached Sarah Palin: and the world really (really) does not need that.

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    52. Mr Derp,

      Damn it Mr. D! You got me started sketching out the first ten segments of an educational children’s show, with your hosts Arya “Wolf Girl” Stark and Sandor “The Hound” Clegane. (Episodes 1-5: Biology Made Simple; E6-10: Basic Cosmetic Surgery).
      I’d post them but I’m having trouble with the “post comment” feature – and I’m reluctant to upset those among us who do not share my enthusiasm for Sandor + Arya.

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    53. Ideally, Ayra, Nymeria, Sandor, Brienne, & Pod could team up with BWB to help provide security, locate & organize food/supplies & rebuild. Everybody is going to have to work together.

      I think it could work even without the main cast. We could hear what happens to them also through travelers passing through.

      Ayra comes to the inn with Nymeria & her pack & narrates the ancient Nymeria tale to Hot Pies kids, imagining herself as Nymeria, so we get to her & Maisie truly be the warrior she has always been.

      The Hound scares the daylights out of the kids & gives them endless nightmares by telling gruesome horror stories (maybe one of his own, embellished even more lol).

      The focus shifts & weaves back & forth from incredible yarns coming to life, back to the urgent reality of people suffering & the main cast doing what they can to survive themselves & help who they can.

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    54. Oz: I hope you’ll return from Con of Thrones with a video of Kate Dickie, in character, crying out to you:

      “Oh Oz. I lied for you! I killed for you!”

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    55. Ten Bears:
      Mr Derp,

      Damn it Mr. D! You got me started sketching out the first ten segments of an educational children’s show, with your hosts Arya “Wolf Girl” Stark and Sandor “The Hound” Clegane. (Episodes 1-5: Biology Made Simple; E6-10: Basic Cosmetic Surgery).I’d post them but I’m having trouble with the “post comment” feature – and I’m reluctant to upset those among us who do not share my enthusiasm for Sandor + Arya.

      Ten Bears,

      Ha! Episode 1 of the Biology series has to be titled “Where the Heart is”.

      And the first episode of the Cosmetic surgery segment should be: “Making Mortal Stab Wounds Seem Like Flesh Wounds by Using Needlepoint”

      I can’t imagine why anyone would be upset about someone posting a light-hearted comment about Sandor and Arya. Wear your Sandor and Arya enthusiasm like armor and it can never be used to hurt you!

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    56. Ten Bears,
      Bwhaaahaa! I guess I haven’t thought that one through too much. Hot Pie definitely deserves a better wife than a snot who would never fully approve or be satisfied with the talented baker or any status lower than the lady she is lol. I’m thinking a cute, smart, hard working common girl who doesn’t take shizit from anyone lol, more Arya-esque. This is where the new cast comes in I guess. She loves Hot Pie for who he is & appreciates his extraordinary talents & knows how to capitalise on them for their survival. I’m realising she would be very important to the series. Who would you have play her?

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    57. “Or maybe this is simply a stalling tactic in order to give the spinoff team more time for development.”

      I will be hard pressed to keep my HBO subscription for 2018 if there is no GOT. I like Westworld ok but HBO is playing around with this one as well. One year on, one year off and that’s not cool.

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    58. Ayra & Gendry could finally have their romcom maybe lol. I don’t see either one of them wanting to be a Lord or Lady, tasked with staying in one place. I think they will both want to have purposeful, but adventurous life, at least right after the war. Who knows, maybe Gendry will want a castle? Not Ayra though to sho.
      Even in one of the main cast wanted to participate, we could still hear what they are up, & I think that would be enough to keep viewers watching, if the cast is again as talented & if the writing was superb.

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    59. On topic…

      Generally speaking, I’m open to a prequel/postquel/remake/reboot/whateverthefuck with GoT, but to be honest, I’m kind of skeptical because most of these end up being nothing more than a monumental disappointment and never live up to the hype.

      If HBO moves forward with a prequel or whatever then where does it stop? I mean, fans love GoT, and understandably so, therefore they want more. So HBO obliges and gives the go ahead for a prequel. Ok, once that’s done, the fans will still be wanting more and then more and then more. I don’t want GoT to become over-bloated like Star Wars. This need for more and more feels like a drug addict who needs to keep feeding the addiction instead of deciding enough is enough. Sometimes, it’s best to quit while you’re ahead, end on a high note, etc…, but that’s just my opinion.

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    60. It sucks what happened to True Detective,that could have been the perfect GOT replacement, the first season got praised as a masterpiece but the second season,while not horrible esentially killed the show . Yeah i know HBO said they haven’t cancelled it but i haven’t heard anything about it since then or even if the creator is thinking of a new story,just a shame really .

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    61. Mr Derp,

      It’s a valid point. They have said they are working on four ideas but that only one will be made. That doesn’t mean they won’t put one or two of them in the vault for later. A lot of it will likely depend on the popularity of the prequel and how the rest of the programming is drawing in and retaining subscribers. I do think Westworld will catch fire on its own, so long as they don’t overcomplicate the plot.

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    62. Ten Bears: I’m reluctant to upset those among us who do not share my enthusiasm for Sandor + Arya.

      I do wonder if “love/hate” is going to wind up playing a role in the final story: and that is one of the better-developed “love/hate” relationships in the overarching story.

      Mr Derp: If HBO moves forward with a prequel or whatever then where does it stop? I mean, fans love GoT, and understandably so, therefore they want more.

      Fans are not the important factor here: viewers are. Although these are generally correlated, shows like Doctor Who and Babylon 5 provide examples where the fandom can be increasing while viewership is decreasing. And where the shows will stop is when viewership declines to the point where sequels are not profitable. (Star Wars is nowhere near that point yet!)

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    63. In general, yes, it’s better quit while ahead. GoT is the exception. It’s the 1st of it’s kind in so many arenas. Being a cash cow aside, HBO has an artisan masterpiece on many levels & owes it to art itself to try & keep of going.
      From special effects to costumes & sets to music, not to mention the endless fables, past present, from GRRMS world to be shown.
      I want to see how far these artists can take their many talents. I want to feel all of the emotions from the new series that I’ve felt from the 1st & I have no doubt that with all their talent, the outstanding cast, devoted crew, great writers, etc, they will pull it off in high fashion. I don’t see it ending up like TD.
      I can’t have anything but hope right now for the new series. It excites me because the possibilities are endless.

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    64. lucy: I will be hard pressed to keep my HBO subscription for 2018 if there is no GOT.

      I’ll keep it like I have for so many years, but I understand the thought. The issue I’m seeing right now is they don’t have any upcoming dramas that I have very much enthusiasm about. In my opinion they’re going to need something more to fill the GoT hole. Season one of Westworld didn’t create a super fan out of me. I’ll watch the next season when it airs but if it’s like season one it won’t be a “can’t miss” for me. I’m interested where they take it but I’m not aching for it to return either.

      I’m actually not seeing much on the ‘in development’ lists for ANY of the premium cable networks that I find interesting other than GoT related options. The JJ Abrams space series project for HBO titled Glare might be the only one. Nothing else seems to be up my alley. (Sony Pictures TV is developing The Wheel of Time but I have no idea what network that will air on. The ones they own aren’t powerhouse television drama networks.)

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    65. Wimsey: Fans are not the important factor here: viewers are.

      Wimsey,

      To me, this is essentially the problem. “Viewers” means casual viewers. In order to continue bringing in viewers, the show will inevitably need to start pandering to other audiences and viewers that weren’t feeling the need for more GoT in the first place. Hence, whatever prequel we get will most likely end up being a shadow of it’s former self.

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    66. I always think big & outside the box when to comes to GoT. I’m envisioning a completely cohesive meshed vibes of past series like Twilight Zone, Hitchcock, Stranger Things, suspense, horror, etc for the tales segments. Some could be very humorous, some could have a life lesson for the kids & adults alike, etc, many times presenting viewers with new ways to view situations/humans etc, other times just blowing our minds lol with freaky stories.
      The Inn setting & characters would be more of a gritty type Robin hood or old western feel of comradery with a great balance of action, humor, drama. I would love to see just a smidge of touching family moments as corny as Little House on the Prairie lol, or at least as good as when Jon gave Ayra needle.

      One of the main reasons GoT is iconic & so fascinating to me, is that it has so many varied viewers worldwide. I can’t help but think it’s a big opportunity for HBO to not only keep making money, but also have a positive affect on human kind 🙂 if only to entertain us & keep our minds off troubles for a bit.
      I believe, where the world stands now that viewers like the dark realism we can relate to and the excitement, but I think we may be ready for some glimpses of hope as Westoros goes through this hardship. I would love to see some common folk and some do-gooders survive & succeed.

      Of course, the best part would be Monty Python references, even some skits & the incredible modern bands playing live at the Inn. Maybe Sir Paul could make an appearance?!

      Maybe someone opens up a brothel somewhere close for the nudity requirement HBO seems to have lol. It would certainly be a freaky lil show I would watch. I think it could work.

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    67. Spinoffs are great and all, but i just really want the final 13 episodes of GOT to be the best TV ever made, lol.

      Beyond that, I only really care about the final books.

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    68. Mr Derp: To me, this is essentially the problem. “Viewers” means casual viewers. In order to continue bringing in viewers, the show will inevitably need to start pandering to other audiences and viewers that weren’t feeling the need for more GoT in the first place.

      It is not necessarily a “bad” thing: there is, after all, a strong correlation between critical review, awards, etc., and how much audiences like both films and television. However, the general public does not “need” more stuff set in Westeros or Hogwarts or Middle-earth or in the Doctor Who universe or in the Star Trek universe or in the INSERT YOUR FAVORITE SERIES HERE universe. Basically, “learning” more “really cool” stuff about those worlds is not considered to be “good” or entertaining TV or film by most of the viewers: after GoT is come and gone, then they will latch on to the next quality TV show with some overarching story regardless of the type of world in which it is set.

      Now, being able to tie a new series to GoT will get the show’s foot in the door, just as Fantastic Beasts got a foot in the door because of Harry Potter. Curiously (and perhaps informatively), Fantastic Beasts is very much not one of the prequels that Harry Potter fans were agitating to see. They wanted to see stuff revolving around known characters important to the Harry Potter stories: instead, Rowling went with characters that either are completely new or so peripheral to the Harry Potter stories that she can do almost anything she likes with them: the plot is pretty much wide open.

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    69. What about a spin-off of Tyrion managing the rebuilding of Kings Landing or living in Casterly Rock, finding his lost love or true love anyway (he’s the only character I want to find twu wuv)(all right, maybe Arya & Gendry too)( Ayra & the Hound are more like father/daughter type relationship).
      Anyhoo, Tyrion could frequent a bar owned by Bronn & we could enjoy their comedic banter as well as action & drama in Kings Landing. If Dinklage isn’t interested, maybe he would want to just pop in once a season, or Bronn could be on his own or have entirely new characters.
      New individual stories from locals & travelers could include current events & ancient tales as they narrate the stories they heard in they’re youth. I’m imaganing:
      Old Nan tales
      Old fables
      Queen Nymeria
      Dunk & Egg tales
      Roberts rebellion
      Maester stories
      Bran the Builder
      The many Aegons, recent & past
      Aemon’s story
      Blackfyres
      Harrenhall
      Children of the Forest
      Giants
      Dragons
      Any & all could be included. At any rate, I think any series focusing on the aftermath of the war, set anywhere in Planetos, could be interesting to the casual viewer.

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    70. Shy Lady Dragon,

      Wouldn’t that be exciting to be a show runner?! & lucrative lol! I’m afraid I’m not quite that ambitious & I’d be starting pretty late to the game, but I do love to let my imagination run when it comes to Thrones.
      What could you see happening in an episode of Bronn’s Brews (working title lol)

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    71. MaesterMercy,

      Everybody getting drunk and Bronn singing!
      I do like the concept of pub/ inn with people telling their stories (Chaucer would be happy!). I’ve spent the last 15 minute looking for a wife for Hot Pie – I googled “young comedy actresses”, but I can see it’s rather difficult to find a funny, but original girl-next-door type in her early 20ies. For the moment I favour Vanessa Marano and Alia Shawkat.

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    72. MaesterMercy: At any rate, I think any series focusing on the aftermath of the war, set anywhere in Planetos, could be interesting to the casual viewer.

      For the casual viewer, it is all about story. “History of Westeros” documentaries will not do it for them. (There are, after all, exactly zero successful TV series doing that sort of thing.)

      The one common factor among the critically & commercially successful cable series of recent years (Thrones, Breaking Bad, Sopranos, etc.) is that they focus on characters who are always stuck doing unsavory things for savory reasons. A successful spinoff will have to do the same.

        Quote  Reply

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