In a new interview with RadioTimes.com, Kit Harington speaks on a subject that often comes up: the high levels of violence present on Game of Thrones, considered gratuitous by some.
“I don’t see a problem with it because you mostly always feel the consequences of that person dying,” he tells RadioTimes. “In Thrones it’s war and awful, awful things happen, as we see on the news daily. And if we’ve got an appetite for watching these things on the news then you can’t shy away from it on cable drama.”
Harington also weighed in on the upcoming season, which completed filming this past December. “It was phenomenal this season. They’ve seriously overreached themselves,” he says. “They’ve built it in the right way – it could have got a lot sillier a lot earlier and it hasn’t. It’s progressed in the right way story-wise. It’s so brilliant this year.”
Harington is giving many interviews these days, to promote his new film Testament of Youth. In UK’s Metro, Kit talks on another, somewhat lighter topic: his hair, and his obligation to maintain his long, naturally curly hairstyle during the show’s run.
“I know, how the f**k did they do that? I screwed myself over there,” the actor acknowledges.
Harington explains, “I don’t want the bother of it all really. If you look a certain way or you have a certain look it dominates what people think you are. So I’ll cut it off quite soon. As soon as I’m allowed.”
For the watch!
Cool. Now give me my trailer.
Or at least the premier date.
Is that…. Boiled leather?
If he cuts his hair I will just have to keep looking at old pics of him.
:p
I wonder how different this season will be from the books. Looking forward to having a season where I’m not sure what will happen to every character. Haven’t had that pleasure since the premiere of the show.
“They’ve seriously overreached themselves…..It’s so brilliant this year.”
Interesting…looking forward to the S5 wall and northern storylines immensely.
Darjan,
Well, they’re:
so I’m sure it’ll be quite different. I’m sure they’ll also sprinkle in some TWOW material in there.
My wife and some of her colleagues got to meet Harrington & other Night Watch actors in the summer of 2013. (They were staying at the same hotel as some GoT cast members while attending a meeting in Belfast.) Harrington complained to them then that he had been set to get his hair cut earlier that year, but was told that his contract forbade it. (My wife and one of her colleagues have similar hair: I think that they were comparing hair care notes.)
As for the violence in the show, I would have a problem with it if it was gratuitous, but it’s not. It’s largely awful. Jon does not look like he is having fun while fighting Wildlings: indeed, what I really liked is that most of the actors looked scared and desperate more than anything else. I feel the same about a lot of the sex and nudity: it shows you how awful life was for women without families in that sort of world. One thing that resonates about the world that B&W show is that you would not want to live in it: they really have pulled the “escapist” criticism of Fantasy out from this show.
The Casting Call Pro page for GoT credits Walda Frey/Bolton as appearing specifically in ep. 501 next year. (We already knew she’d be back, we just didn’t know how and when).
That doesn’t necessarily mean that that will be her only appearance because Casting Call Pro has been given only partial info about actors’ appearances in GoT in the past…but it does confirm that the Bolton/Reek business will begin in the s5 premiere.
Greenjones,
Makes sense. They’re gonna start the season with making us endure the heartache of seeing the Boltons settle in to Winterfell, (By the old Gods and New that will hurt,) but it will be to get the ball rolling on Theon/Reek’s redemption storyline and hopefully the Battle of Winterfell that season as well.
Looking forward to the story lines in the North and at the Wall. I am especially interested to see Alfie Allen’s performance. This season could establish what we already know – that he is one of the finest actors on this show.
The collection of characters at the Wall also promises to deliver some great moments.
Greenjones,
I assumed that storyline would be in the premiere, similar to Sansa’s, given that both storylines missed the last two episodes of season 4.
Greenjones,
I wonder if they will use her for the face of the “Frey Chorus.” That would be pretty simple, and in her limited screen time, she’s done a good job of projecting the sort of character that would communicate what they need to communicate here.
It does make me wonder who will be the face of the Northmen Chorus. We’ve gotten little clue there.
He is really good, and he, Martin & B&W have done a great job of creating a character that you simultaneously loathe and pity. B&W (& Allen) laid the groundwork for Theon’s Season 5 story really well last year: it will be interesting to see what emotions they get from the general audience over this arc.
I am interested to see if
Both young men have progressed very well as actors, and this has the potential to be really tense. (However, that might be next year, or even never!)
Dutch maester,
Wait, didn’t Maleficent Stark descend in the last episode?
I think I’m most excited for the North this year! And hush Kit Harington you can hold on a few more years to cut that hair while enduring worldwide fame 😉
Yeah, that makes sense. Viewers want to know what’s happening there. ESPECIALLY, if Sansa’s story line is going to have an impact on other events like Dorne, Brienne, or even KL.
And WORD that I anticipate (even more!) great things from Alfie this season.
Valid point about the Northmen Chorus. I think that it is needed and I am worried that it has been forgotten about.
As far as Theon…
IMO, he is one of the most fascinating characters in recent literature. His journey elicits so many different reactions. Theon’s arc in ADWD was the highlight of that book. And I think its been handled perfectly in the show.
Unless they are cutting out the Northmen from the Bolton army altogether (which might be happening), a North Chorus would probably just appear without them trying to do so. I suppose that it is possible that they are going to make the Boltons+Freys just be occupiers with no collaborators.
Regarding Theon,
Ultimately, though, the story lines have to start coalescing: and it just seems that (because of Westerosian geography and other sociopolitical relationships forged in Dragons), this would be a probable coalescent point. (Unless, of course,
For no particularly good reason, I am not expecting that: but that does not mean too much.)
The important point, though, is if the two do meet, then Jon’s hair probably still will be awesome….
And on that topic….
Indeed, Sansa’s storyline deserves a lot of attention from us. She might give us a tipoff as to where the storylines will start to coalesce. I am betting that it’s with
: but on the flimsiest of evidence.
“it could have gotten a lot sillier a lot earlier”
… what exactly does he mean here?
I can’t wait for season 5! Jon, The Wall, Night’s Watch was my fav storyline in season 4.
Mel, Stannis, Davos, Jon, Thorne, Janos… in this season, GOOSEBUMPS
Violence?, This is Game Of Thrones, Oh please! He’s right. :))
Wimsey,
Nope, she descended in ‘The Mountain and the Viper’
I think Kit looked JUST like Jon should when he had short hair back in drama school (see early casting pics), so I think they should let him cut his damn hair! Maybe it could be part of a personal transformation after a certain event in adwd
Mormont,
i saw this rad theory that the
She’d better not… Thoros didn’t need any of that, and Beric turned out much better than Drogo.
Where do you see episode 1?
This is the credit info I see
Year:2014
Type:TV
Role:Walda Bolton
Production:Game Of Thrones
Company:HBO
Turncloak,
On the page I linked, on the list of actors, not on her individual Casting Call Pro page.
With this sacrifice Ghost and Jon would share one body. I bet Jon gets Ghost’s red eyes.
Greenjones,
Still don’t see the episode #s. Maybe because I’m using mobile? Below is what I see.
TV Show Database : Game of Thrones
Game of Thrones is an American medieval fantasy television series created by David Benioff and Dan Weiss for HBO. The series, based on author George R. R. Martin’s best-selling A Song of Ice and Fire series of novels, chronicles the violent dynastic struggles among noble families for control of the Iron Throne of Westeros. HBO programming chief Michael Lombardo has stated that the series will likely debut in Spring 2011.
Production Company: HBO
Year Written: 2009
Companies connected with this show
BBC/HBO
Fire and Blood Productions
HBO
Members who worked on Game of Thrones
2014, Annika Hillbrink, Wight
Game of Thrones, Season 5
HBO
2014, Sarine Sofair, Lhara
Game of Thrones, Season 4
HBO
2014, Pixie Le Knot, Kayla
Game Of Thrones
Fire and Blood
2014, Gianpiero Cognoli, Master Eaton
Game of Thrones
HBO
2014, Grace Hendy, Merry Frey
Game of Thrones
HBO
2014, Zoe Smedberg, Wildling Female
Game of Thrones
HBO
2014, Barrie Martin, Wildling / White
Game of Thrones
HBO
2014, Elizabeth Webster, Walda Bolton
Game Of Thrones
HBO
2013, Emilio Doorgasingh, The Slave-Master
Game Of Thrones
Fire & Blood Productions
Turncloak,
It could be because you’re using mobile. Most of those names have episode numbers specified under them on the Casting Call Pro page as I see it.
Kit really was quite exemplary last season, even with redundant and mundane scripts. I am looking forward to seeing more KH greatness in season 5.
Mormont,
Patchface? Nahh…
Turncloak,
Yes, Beric lost more and more over each reincarnation: but he was brought back again and again and again.
As for LS,
At any rate, we don’t have any indication that doing it “right” will result in “good as new”: we don’t have any other examples of resurrected characters. Moreover, there is also the very real chance that
At any rate, Martin has left a few general options open: if the variant we get is novel, well, we cannot say that we haven’t gotten this gun before; we are just seeing a new thing that happens with a fired bullet.
When do the books ever suggest that Jon had short hair? Heck, the cover of the GoT book from the 1990’s had Jon with similarly long (albeit not curly!) hair.
Greenjones,
Yup now I see it.
Thanks!
Wimsey,
It still looks like Beric had too many drawbacks.
Turncloak,
Yup…
I always thought Jon’s eventual ‘resurrection’ would involve blood sacrifice-and a dire wolf alone won’t be enough.
I know some things:
Short reference to Lyanna Stark in 501. Cersei speaks about Lyanna with the High Sparrow in the middle of the season, Melisandre sees something in the flames in a vision in front of Jon Snow.
As a spoiler-but-not-book-reader I was wondering this earlier and it’s largely violence-related, although a bit off-topic, so here goes: we had quite a few named character deaths in S4 because they were due round about that part of the story,
As far as I know it’s…gonna make this as vague as I can in case the spoiler tags don’t work…
There’s someone else I can’t think of a way of alluding to so I’m gonna post this and if the tags work ok I’ll stick them in too.
EDIT: tags worked so
Turncloak,
It is just as likely to imply that
Now, this is not to say that you are wrong: but there are multiple things that are consistent with this vision.
The above is another key that people seem to leave out:
Now, I am not saying that any of these ideas are correct. However, my real point is that a basic premise here (
) is something that we don’t know to be true. (I have been pretty plain in my doubts!) What Martin has written so far is consistent with all of these possible outcomes, as well as a few others that we haven’t considered (or so I would bet).
Little Birdie,
Thanks!
SOunds like they’re setting it up for the Big Reveal to happen in Season 6.
I have heard D&D mention they want to get into negative population growth next season so I think some important deaths (that haven’t yet happened in the books) WILL be coming…especially since D&D are likely to have at least one critical battle actually take place this season.
Lulu’s Mum,
This is speculation, but not baseless speculation. This is a spoiler from early chapters of WoW:
It is pure inference (unless there has been confirmation that I have missed!), but it is a very sensible one as it would allow B&W to basically do the same things as done in the book (and it would preserve all of the necessary elements of Arya’s storyline) with the characters at hand.
So, it might be wrong: but, damn, the pieces all fit here!
Let’s hope so! I am not a big “book purist” by any means, but I really would like to read this before I see it, and if Martin reveals it in Winter, then there is a decent chance that we’ll read it first. And, I’m sorry: but it’s ridiculous that it’s 2015 already and we still have not read this. I mean, geez, there are probably people from the old Usenet group who don’t even remember that they believed that
is Jon’s mother: and I couldn’t even find that old group to taunt them that they were wrong if I wanted to do so!!!! 😀
Wimsey,
Wimsey,
Right, so now I’ve got the hang of the spoiler tags
Overtaking the books or not, looks like all we can be sure of from now on are bewbs and death, although whose are another matter entirely.
I can already feel the anticipation for S5 now that we’re into 2015. Cannot wait!
Very much looking forward to all storylines, mainly Dorne, North and the Vale. Someone in another forum wrote (from a friend on set) that Sansa’s trajectory will descend further into darkness. Like reaaaallly dark. I won’t write what they hinted at, it could be all baseless speculation and lies. I just hope that they set up her motivations clearly, and she starts to break out on her own. Sophie Turner will kill it i’m sure!
Off the top of my head, here are the characters the show has done away with before the books did (or have yet to):
Mago
Marillion (not dead but de-tongued and discarded)
Old Nan (out of necessity)
Jeyne Poole (killed or exiled off-screen)
Rakharo (actor wanted to leave)
Irri
Xaro Xhan Daxos
Pyat Pree (presumably)
The Tickler
Amory Lorch
Rorge
Biter
Polliver
Cleos Frey/Alton Lannister
Dagmer Cleftjaw
Jeyne Westerling/Talisa
Mero
Grenn
Pyp
and I probably missed a couple
So with the show history, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a few more early exits in Season 5.
Where is the link to the trailer?
Well, we do have spoiler tags. Moreover, some people here have had some “dark” speculations for her: chances are pretty good that whatever was suggested there is within bounds of what this lot has suggested. And, of course, a lot of people seem to consider relatively light stuff to be “dark” where Sansa is concerned: so, what they might think is “dark” might be “walking on sunshine” for other characters.
I can definitely think that about Catelyn: although she (in the books, at least) is such a shrew that this might actually lower her opinion of Jon. (
). However, she probably would have considered Ned to be
. I’m not sure that Robb would have been much phased: indeed, in many ways, he might have welcomed this revelation. Tywin wouldn’t have cared either way: his personal grudges were not with any of the characters in play, and enemies are enemies to him. The characters who really would have cared would have been
and
. (I put that in spoilers because it pretty much gives away who mumsy is!)
Indeed, this does beg the question: what will
King Tommen,
I dont’ think that all of those characters are supposed to be dead on the show. Indeed some (like Jeyne Poole) never were cast.
Also, you can add Jojen to the list questionably: he might still be alive in the books (and if he isn’t, then his death is a little earlier on TV than in the books).
(You can probably take
off of the list: she almost certainly is dead in the books.
King Tommen,
I was thinking S4 seemed to kill more major(ish) characters than the others, but it might be because the action was more evenly spread out than previously and four deaths in separate events stuck in my mind more than four people dying all at once. But probably mostly because I was really looking forward to certain people dying and throwing things at the tv shouting “just die you *******” at them while I waited. As someone at work said, one of the great things about GoT is that there are so many dislikable people in it!
May I ask what forum that was on? I LOVE baseless speculation!
Lulu’s Mum,
Just wait until
Valar Morghulis!
It probably helped that S4 adapts mostly the 2nd half of ASoS which is a cavalcade of major character deaths.
As you can see from my list, the show doesn’t mess with major character demises, they tend to happen right on schedule. It’s all the secondary characters that seem to bite the dust earlier than normal.
So in S5, I’m looking at a few prime candidates that may have a surprise early exit.
King Tommen,
Also depends on who exactly was set to bite the dust in TWOW. It might be that some of the deaths anticipated in that book, (at least early TWOW) might well happen in Season Five since they’re getting into TWOW territory.
Hodor’s Bastard,
hey Hodor’s Bastard, do you know if I can find a good Sansa essay? I recently started liking Dany more after reading the Meereenese Blot essays.
I need something to help me understand what GRRM is trying to tell us with Sansa.
I know Westeros.org created a Sansa compendium but I’m looking for something more concise and to the point (similar to Meereneese blot)
1) Fairy tales are lies.
2) Pawns can become players with time.
3) Not everyone progresses at the same rate: something that takes an Arya moments to comprehend might take a Sansa much longer to comprehend; but, in the end, even a Sansa will comprehend it.
Hodor’s Bastard,
Do you think that the last of those will be happening still?
Turncloak,
I must admit that whenever I want to indulge in frivolous Sansa deep-dive speculation, I go to Westeros as well. It’s been 9 frickin’ years since a Sansa/Alayne chapter and frankly folks seem tired of discussing her without new stuff in hand. Still, there is a lot to explore there and I often am surprised at the diverse speculations. Our friend, Annara Snow, knows his/her Sansa shit, as well as many other folk over there. The threads are often seriously digressive. A recent goofball thread (Sansa in Robb’s will) is as follows: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/122416-robbs-letter-and-sansa/
Boiled Leather also has some interesting Sansa digressions. I enjoy Sean Collins’ perspective.
Do you ever listen/watch Preston Jacobs videos on YouTube? You may like them as well, although he doesn’t really focus on Sansa that much.
Our friend and contributor, Marc Kleinhenz, probably has many references to essays. I have a few of his collections but no Sansa essays. She is primarily the fodder of pure fan speculation at this point.
Turncloak,
Response with links awaiting moderation…. 🙁
Wimsey,
Yer funny, ser. 🙂
As we’ve pondered in several threads, we must be patient with Sansa. But what I find interesting about her is all the stuff surrounding her (master plotster LF, a Baratheon bastardette Mya, the WF re-ascendancy, SanSan dreams and possibilities, SweetRobyn whacking, Tully support, weirwood communication, sexual chess with Vale lords, Vale spies, Andals & Stark lore, etc.) So much bizarro stuff surrounding this “protagonist!”
Why is Grace Hendy as Merry Frey listed under 2014? She was only in S3, in 2013, I believe. Is this the first we’ve heard of her possibly returning for S5, or am I missing something?
Kyle,
Since it doesn’t have her listed for 2013 when ep. 309 aired or for 2012 when she shot her scenes, I assume that it’s just that her agents only got around to updating her info now. We know Walder isn’t in s5 (but will probably be in future seasons) so Merry being in wouldn’t make sense now anyhow.
Hodor’s Bastard,
Thanks! I wasn’t looking for much speculation but more an understanding of the themes surrounding Sansa’s character. For example something to similar to Dany’s relationships with Hizdahr and Daario representing Dany’s struggle for Peace and War respectively.
I already know the fairy tales are a lie part that Wimsey pointed out. Wanted to see if there was anything more out there.
I think I’ll check out the Sean T Collins article you linked!
Wimsey,
Thanks Wimsey
Hodor’s Bastard,
I try to amuse.
I think that we can generalize Sansa to: how is she going to apply the lessons that she’s learned from Cersei? This won’t be just how Sansa applies feminine wiles on Littlefinger or other Vale lords, or how she deals with irksome cousins. It’s going to affect:
1) how aggressively Sansa goes after Winterfell, and whether she will try to simply be the Lady of WInterfell, or Queen in the North;
2) how Sansa reacts when she discovers that Rickon is alive and well, or even whether she accepts it;
3) how Sansa reacts when she learns about
4) how Sansa will treat real Arya and what assumptions that Sansa will make about what her sister now represents;
5) whether Sansa sides with Stannis, Aegon, or Daenyrs (we know that Sansa won’t side with the Lannisters).
A separate issue might be, how will being the only non-warg Stark affect things? Might it get to the point where being a Warg is a “sign of the true king/queen” to the Northmen?
It probably will color the smaller details, too: the stuff that Martin has to have the protagonists do between “big” things, or that ultimately lead to the “big” things. (Does Sansa have any weirwood communications? I don’t remember that: but that could just be my Crow amnesia.) However, with
, and with the White Walkers (probably) about to make themselves known to everyone, things might start happening at a faster pace in Winter: we might get a lot less small stuff (like, say, fewer descriptions of every last meal….), and a lot more snowballing instead. Still, the Vale Lords will have different views on who to support (Daeny vs. Aegon vs. Stannis: the Lannisters’ won’t get much love!), and different suggestions about what she should do regarding the Boltons. And, of course, Littlefinger is going to have his own agenda beyond just scoring with Sansa.
Turncloak,
Some of my favorite Sansa threads on Westeros (stuff you may already know):
Pawn to Player
Sansa Stockholme Syndrome
Well any Lyanna (and Rhaegar) mention is great. There’s also the Jon+Ghost Ice cell theory over at the Ice and Fire forum that is worth exploring and the writer even refers to foreshadowing in the first book that points to what could happen to Jon later.
As to Kit’s hair, he wore a wig for Testament of Youth and will be doing a film called The Death and Life of John F. Donovan early this year. So if he says he gets to “cut it off quite soon”, I wonder if it means FTW. At least that’s how I interpret it.
He’ll be doing that film with Jessica Chastain and Cathy Bates, so I am extremely happy for him that he landed that role. The reviews for his performance in ToY has also been very favourable.
They have to do more than just mention it at this key point: they really have to find a way to show. After all, on TV or in films, a character is the face of the actor/actress playing the part, not the name. Given that flashbacks of this sort can be done quickly and entirely in studios, the show will be able to surprise us with these things if the producers wish to do so.
(The Doctor Who team was able to do that last year: they managed to keep scenes associated with the 50th Anniversary special with a couple of the older actors who played the Doctor in the 1970’s and 1990’s under wraps because they were done entirely in doors and with one day of filming.)
It probably just refers to the fact that Kit (and everyone else) will be done filming SoI&F in just two years. After 5+ years of doing this series, that has to seem like “soon.” (Indeed, all of the cast members must be starting to look over the horizon: what has been a center point of their lives is going to go away very soon!)
Indeed, it is a little weird to think that the over-arching story is basically about to hit the home stretch. Of course, this should have happened years ago with the books.
Rygar,
Yeah, he really took a sharp turn from meh to awesome last year. Seeing him interact with team Dragonstone should be great
Mormont,
He means that a lot of shows become really stupid and jump the shark after a few seasons, and GOT has managed to avoid that so far.
Wimsey,
Sansa could also have fun with LS and Brienne at some point since they are in the vicinity.
Subtract Sansa/weirwood mention from before – it is associated with speculation as Sansa explores the Vale.
Oh my! Any mention or showing of the Lyanna/Rheagar stuff is HEAVEN to this girl!! Now I’m REALLY excited for this season to get going! Squeee!!!
Honestly, I’m so excited for this season to just press ahead of the books. I am sick to death of waiting and waiting and being disappointed in GRRM’s writing pace and red herrings. I’m ready for some streamlining and succinct story-telling in this universe! Bring it on D&D&BCog!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0944947/episodes?season=5&ref_=tt_eps_sn_5
Mat,
A couple new faces all around the episodes, but really minor roles
Mat,
jentario,
I’ve been posting these as I find them both here (for Luka Nieto to add to the GoT wiki) and on AFOIAF for Seneti’s great casting thread there.
None of those for ep. 504 are new from what I can tell. Christian Vit is the most recent one added there IIRC and that was two or three weeks ago.
Greenjones,
I haven’t been keeping up lately
jentario,
The wiki and Seneti’s OP on the AFOIAF casting thread have all of the casting tidbits you may have missed compiled.
People who’ll die this season based on the books:
Maester Pycelle
Maester Aemon
Kevan Lannister
Loras is said to be dying if that is true he’ll probably die this season. Though since he is the heir in the show maybe he’ll take on some role Willas has in the book.
Other than that we have people who are already dead in the book:
Balon
Beric
who might die of screen this season.
Sofia,
Loras,
I agree that they need to show it in some manner. How much would they need to show for the majority of Unsullied to understand it?
Don’t you dare cut your hair! Wow…this man is absolutely stunning…totally in love.
Maybe old news, but Lino Facioli’s CV says he will appear in S5 (literally “GAME OF THRONES 5”) directed by “various” directors. In S4 they said the same for Tara Fitzgerald, and it turned out Selyse Baratheon was in multiple episodes.
http://unitedagents.co.uk/lino-facioli
Is there any chance the Blackfish has Robb’s will ….show watcher- reading COK…I’m not sure if there any info making g this not a possibility but it’s 1 way the will could of survived and be in good hands!
Ser Low-Res,
Yeah,saw that a month or so ago, but I already had assumed Robin would be in s5 (a fair amount) given how we left off s4.
Kyle,
If you look at her resume that is the only GoT bit listed. It lists as 2014 because she just joined the website. She’s not in a 2014 episode.
Jaime’sHand1220,
Oh, you are stumbling into the “Great Northern Conspiracy”, my friend. If the reveal ever does happen (if it is not simply overhyped fan stuff) I would assume that the BF has it or knows where it is. The contents of Robb’s will are heavily debated.
mariamb,
They probably would not need to show much: just a bit. One thing that of which they can take advantage is that
. One thing that they also could do is get Bean & Addy back briefly: it is remarkable how well a little CGI can make people look decades younger, particularly given that flashbacks usually are rendered in funny lighting and with reduced color to make them look, well, “flashback.” (Add to this that both Bean and Addy have film from when they were 20+ years younger, and it becomes very easy and inexpensive.)
One of the few decisions that B&W made with which I didn’t agree was to not show a bit of Robert’s War early. Oh, I understood it: they wanted to avoid looking too much like Lord of the Rings or even Harry Potter, where the series started with scenes well before the stories actually started. (Insert joke about how the stories didn’t start until the third movie for Harry Potter, anyway about…. here). However, although it is a cliche, this is yet another story that is sort of a “sequel” to earlier events.
There is material from the book – from visions Daeny has in Clash and from stories that Jojen tells Bran – that could be adapted here. It probably would have been doubly pointless to include these at the time: audiences would have retained them in Season 6 (not good), and they would not have added anything to the stories being told that year (very bad!).
Given that GRRM himself penned the episode in which it would have been most appropriate to introduce that, I think that is out. People have made some to do about one popular fan “theory” that this episode should have snuffed:
However, I suspect that Martin was also trying to snuff the belief that Robb’s Will was an important plot point by pointedly excluding it. Given that he also has
excluded it in two subsequent books AND already had Jon refuse to be made Robb’s heir or accept Sansa’s disowning
, it is more likely that Martin was just using the will at that time as a device to re-emphasize the question of Jon’s parentage, Catelyn’s hatred of Jon and the general superstition that Bastards were necessarily inferior to True Borns. (After all, Martin already has given us three lost Heirs to the North: if he wanted a 4th, then he’d have given dragons four heads….. 🙂 )
Wimsey,
Get hype! Blackfish for King in the Middle!
Hodor’s Bastard,
I begin to think that you are the Blackfish reincarnated! The theological implications of that would be absolutely staggering, you know.
As for the rumored prologue,
As for Jon, well, people can try to legitimize him: but the old saying about horses and water comes to mind. Jon is not a dissembler nor someone who looks for “loopholes” (as we see with him realizing he has to help Wildlings): even if he is technically “dead” for a little while, then he won’t accept that this frees him from his vows to the Watch. I think it would take learning something absolutely insane (like, you know, he’s Targaryen or something absolutely daft like that) to get him to rethink his vows to the Watch: and that would only because he would then realize that everything he had base himself on would be a lie. And, of course, that would take him completely out of the picture.
Regardless, Jon’s loyalty to his family will prevent him from ever trying to deprive Sansa of what she is due in Jon’s mind: and it will be very clear by Winter that Sansa is no longer “Lady Lannister” in any meaningful way. That, and the fact that both Sam & Davos know that Rickon is alive & well would come into play.
Wimsey,
A man has got to have a code….well, at least until the opportunity to break it presents itself.
(Ssshhhh! I must admit that I have a bias toward the older, weathered ASoI&F generation with perspective on the Targ rule and the current chaos….Selmy, Varys, BF, BR, Manderly, Doran, Stannis, Davos, Aemon, JonCon included….)
mariamb,
Charlie Hunnam would make a good Rhaegar.
Wimsey,
I generally agree but
Of course, the Boltons and the fast-dwindling Freys will have something to say about it as well. 🙂
I also agree that Jon could care less about legitimization but I believe it will happen (Jon Stark or Jon Targaryen…here we come!). At some point Dany needs to know about Jon’s parentage as well. As you implied, Jon will be the Stark enabler if they (or he) ever get the chance to return to power. In any case, the TWoW prologue will probably escalate things out of the gate for the riverlands (GRRM needs to get that shit going)…but I don’t think JW will make it past the prologue alive (to align with the Talisa foreshadowing).
Mat,
This shows that Leaf and the Three Eyed Raven will be in season 5 episode 1…. But I thought Bran was already confirmed to not be in season 5? Is this a mistake? Could someone clear this up for me?
Dogcheese,
imdb is the least reliable source out there since anybody can edit that.
Hodor’s Bastard,
I thought that
I think that we are told that the Stark women are not given any due. Sansa is explicitly disinherited. Robb assumed Arya to be dead: after all, it had been over a year since anybody had seen her (and longer on the TV show, where they seem to be doing a year per year). Of course, this would raise two huge spanners in the works for the Will: Jon is being legitimized based on two false assumptions!
Ultimately, I see the biggest problem as simply a storytelling one. You can send Christ to the Mount once and once only in a story. Martin sent the character in question there at the end of book 3 (and I really hope that we get it in Season 5!). The CiQ was sorely tempted: (
). However, the CiQ said: “no.” I found this to be one of the most potent bits of character development and story-telling that Martin has done so far. However, redoing it would just be repetitive, not potent. (I know, I know: jib jab! 🙂 But this is a story, and storytelling rules exist for reasons.)
Wimsey,
Although you lost me with the “CiQ” stuff, I don’t think we can really define the Westerling/Spicer intentions just yet. Perhaps I am a bit crackpot, but since JW and her mother are direct descendants of Maggy the Frog, I am concerned about the integrity and interpretation of their statements to Jaime. I’ve always thought that there might be some tomfoolery about with regards to Mama Spicer (even her husband seems oblivious of her actions). And since her son was probably a casualty of the RW, there may be some motivation there. No one really knows anything about this. This is what happens when the author has not moved the storyline forward in 10 years. 🙁
I’m glad that I’m not the only one confused by “CiQ.”
I don’t have any hope of getting clarification on the Westerling/Spicer motivations. With so many other things that appear to be more crucial to the story line, I no longer care about this as I once did. Since the show turned JW into Talisa and then killed her off, I have accepted that the Westerlings will amount to little.
Dragonslayer,
That’s NOT ENTIRELY true. There are fan-edits on IMDB and those are usually incorrect but there are also edits by actors agencies/management which tend to be very exact/accurate. It can be hard to gauge the difference, especially on the page for season premieres which tend to be catch-alls for all of the sloppy fan-edits. BUT if you find out a piece of casting news through IMDB exclusively, you can probably trust it. Because fans can obviously not edit to add info that they haven’t been alerted to by some non-IMDB source, now can they? So for instance on the IMDB page for ep. 501, Jake Abraham appearing as “Meereenese Peddler” is actually a legit listing and not a fan-edit because this was the first any of us had heard of his casting.
The only casting that is listed incorrectly on the non-501 IMDB ep. pages (as far as I can tell) is Mishael Lopes Cardozo appearing in ep. 505 because we now know he’ll actually be in 503.
Hodor’s Bastard,
Whoops! Sorry: CiQ = “Character in Question.” I thought that I had put that in after I wrote it (too many letters and I was sick of spoiler tags), but I didn’t. My bad.
Tywin explains them before he dies. The Spicers are “new money” trying to buy their way to respectability. The Westerlings are old blood out of money. This is the old Whig vs. Tory (capitalist vs. aristocracy) feud of the 19th-early 20th century. It comes up in shows like Downton Abbey: there, you can see that the aristocrats hold the capitalists in the same disdain that they hold socialists despite the fact that the capitalists held far more economic power than did the aristocrats by then.
This class struggle is a very big issue in novels of all sorts from 100+ years ago. It would be a very big issue in a world like Westeros, too, where prominent families of the mercantile class would often have as much or more wealth as the landed aristocracy. All political power is held by titled landowners, and because titled landowners like Tywin consider everyone else to be “small folk,” the merchants were often left grasping for some inroads into the political system and some recognition that they were not “commoners.”
(Historically, we owe the existence of Winston Churchill to this; the Churchills were broke, but they wouldn’t marry daughters of the lower class UK families despite how rich those families were; for some reason, the daughters of US capitalists were considered fair game even though the landed US families would not allow their sons to marry such daughters: so, an American Spicer married a UK Westerling and the UK Lannisters deemed that OK the way that it seems to be OK for Westerosian lords to marry rich daughters from Essos. Go figure….)
Wimsey,
Oh, I understood “CiQ”, but not the subsequent logic. :/
Hodor’s Bastard,
Ah, OK. The subsequent logic was that the story has been there and done that! Martin gave us a very powerful chapter at the end of Swords on this. Retreading this would be, well, retread. Sending Christ to the mountain a second time and having him say: “the answer is still NO!” isn’t too potent; having him go back a second time and then say: “Actually, something got me to change my mind!” would simply undo what the prior chapters did!
(I am hoping that this gets done on the show, too. In a way, Martin was setting up the story of Crows & Dragons with this section, so it actually will work better at the beginning of Season 5 than at the end of last year, particularly coinciding with other career changes for our CiQ.)
Ser Low-Res,
Good find. Luka Nieto could you wiki it up? 😉
Greenjones,
On it.
EDIT: Done 😉
Luka Nieto,
Thank you kindly. 🙂
If I had to bang a Snow, I’d bang Frosty.
Whimey
That makes a whole lot of sense for CiQ. Dany discovers at the end of aDwD that she veered off the path, where she went wrong, who she really is and where her real journey lies. Thus, by the time she pitches in Westeros, she won’t make the same choices as in Mereen. CiQ may discover that soon enough and it will influence his upcoming choices.
I just hope they don’t leave out the first “No” in the show. It’s an integral part of said character’s development and sets up his later relationship with a certain Red Priestess, who in turn is linked to a religion of blood sacrifice and resurrection.
I absolutely agree with Kit Harrington on the nature of the violence on the show. It boggles the mind that this is even still an issue?!?! The horrors that you see on you daily news cast oftentimes far outweighs anthing I have seen on the show!
Not to mention that we seem not to have any issue with watching people debase themselves, humiliate themselves, or having that done to them in the name of entertainment…under the guise of reality tv!
Its not like “Game Of Thrones”, and shows like “The Walking Dead”, “The Strain” and others, hoist the violence depicted on there, like a flag of pride and honour! “Game Of Thrones” shows the ugliness of war, violence, anger, hatred…and the consequences of certain violent decisions, actions etc. And I would add that it does it far better and to a much greater effect than most of our news media outlets that oftentimes present a sanitized, detached and consequence free portrayal of the sometimes gleeful reporting on wars, tragedies and what have you…
I cannot wait for Season Five, the premiere date and the promotion to ramp up. Should be looking forward to a full length trailer in the near future I dare say…
And “Now My Watch Begins”, “The North Remembers”, “Winter Is Coming” and all that good stuff! The North, the Wall, the Starks, the Watch, beyond the Wall…ahhh like music to my ears and always my favourite bit of Westeros in “A Song Of Ice And Fire”!
Morna the Witch,
Don’t be so sure that Dany was wrong
It does seem that there are people who cannot understand the difference between showing violence and glorifying violence. (Oddly enough, they usually are among the first to propose violence to preserve their “right and true” way of life, too….)
It will be interesting to see how they do this. I can see them mixing it in with other events: it’s almost a choice of two promotions, isn’t it?
Here is a hilarious take on game of thrones, “pornography” and the benefits of Jon Snow. Clearly the author has not watched season 3…
FreyJoy, And here is the website: http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/01/pornography_game_of_thrones.html
FreyJoy,
OK – that is pretty hysterical. Do ya think he misses the point a bit? By the end of the piece, I’m not even sure what he is talking about.
Patchy Face,
Everyone is entitled their opinion but to me this is as far fetched as it gets – at the same time I applaud the guy for the entertainment, even if probably not intended that way 🙂
That Zoe Smedberg sure looks like Val to me.
Zoe=Val
probably a load of horse shit
http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2ramgr/spoilers_all_got_asoiaf_rumors_future_story/
WinterIsNeverComing,
Probably? I’d say definitely. How the hell would a GoT tour guide HAVE ANY idea when TWOW’s coming out and why would they even bother guessing? As for the rest it’s mostly claims no one can prove (ie. bullshit) yet peppered with just a few things we do know already to attempt at plausibility.
Turncloak
True too 🙂 Which makes it all the more tragic for her.
Whimsey
That’s exactly how I read it in the books. Two leadership options each with its own set of difficulties and challenges. It will be interesting to see the Unsullied’s reaction to this development, especially those who have not really taken an interest in Jon Snow as of yet. Hopefully the “Mercy, my lord” is done in such a way that the audience will have the same wtf reaction like with badass Dany in S3.
Thanks for the clarification, everyone. I knew Walder was said to not be in S5, and I was trying to come up with a reason for Merry to be in. The only thing I could think of was if she was married off to some peripheral character.
Anyway, I noticed S6 episodes are already listed on IMDB. An actress named Nell Williams is listed as portraying “Young Cersei” in the first few episodes of S6. This is the first I’d heard of an actress being cast as “Young Cersei.” Cersei flashbacks have long been rumored for S5 (maybe confirmed? I can’t recall.) If this is correct, I believe this info on IMDB to be wrongly attributed to S6, and should be listed under S5. Thoughts?
Kyle,
I don’t know if they were “confirmed” (if nothing else, what some people accept as confirmation, others do not!), but it’s been widely mentioned that we could expect explicit flashbacks this year.
The “young Cersei” flashback has been confirmed for E1 of Season 5. Obviously a typo at IMDB. Anything listed for Season 6 at this point would be complete bullshit as D&D would only be at the very preliminary stages of breaking the overall story out at this point (if they’ve even started at all).
As always, IMDB is extremely unreliable.
I remember a girl turned up on Youtube a few months ago claiming she had the part but it was totally unsubstantiated. I don’t remember her name.
But I have come across the name of another young actress cast for S5. Not sure if she’s for Cersei, or the brunette (the likely-Melara role) or some other minor S5 part. Wasn’t ready to post it yet.
Game of Thrones is sitting at #67 with the most subscribers. The show is insanely popular :).
Carne found this bit of info and linked it on AFOIAF but I guess hasn’t done so here yet. Luka Nieto, at least, could make use of this casting tidbit info…
Kyle,
It would be fitting if both Myrcella and young Cersei were played by Nells.
Sue the Fury,
Will you be posting that tomorrow by any chance?
Turncloak,
Edit: 67th most reddit subscribers
Turncloak,
Is that for ASOIAF reddit or GoT reddit?
tyjon,
At this point will smith could be cast as Val and I would cry in happiness that she is in. Looking forward for thursday’s BTS/Featurette/whatever they call it.
Wimsey,
It’s never described, AFAIK.
Book art isn’t canon. Typically the author doesn’t even have veto power over it.
RandomSand,
Thursday? What?
Greenjones,
We already knew about Allon Sylvain (he plays a “foreign merchant”), but not about Oengus Mac Namara. And the news has been sitting there for a couple months now. Thanks!
RandomSand,
What Thursday featurette? Are you thinking about the one that airs in February or do you know something we don’t?
RandomSand,
I just noticed that Thursay is January 8th, so he must have confused it with February 8…
Anyway, I’m still hoping for a trailer this Sunday, though I’m not that hopeful anymore.
Greenjones,
That’s GOT reddit which has 400,000 plus subscribers. ASOIAF reddit has ~177,000
Balerion The Cat,
#proudmanthatIam
What about Olaf? He feels bad being left out.
Hodor’s Bastard,
Don’t play with my emotions , only imagining how epic that would be almost made me squeal lol.
I really need that trailer, I am grateful for the little tease we got from HBO’s Yearender and even for those TheSight videos, they’ve done their part now I need the real thing, enough with the teasing (I would be ok with some teasers for the trailer like last year though 😛 )
Queenofthrones,
Regardless of whether it is canon, my point is that: 1) the book never describes Jon’s hair as short; and, 2) other people envision something very different. (Given art by Nasmuth and others, I would say that most of them envision long hair on most of the characters.) It’s difficult to read about so many bearded people without assuming long hair to go with it, after all. And even if Jon or Robb have only wisps of beards, most people envision them as younger looking versions of the shaggy men.
Moreover, art like that is what influences a lot of people’s visions. One absolute stroke of genius by Peter Jackson et al. was to use two well-known Tolkien illustrators to design sets and general appearances. “It’s just like I imagined!” the Tolkien fans squealed. No it wasn’t: it was just like Alan Lee and John Howe imagine it! (Another Tolkien artist, Ted Nasmath, has made a lot of the influential SoI&F pictures.)
So, the show is almost certainly catering to the general vision, if only because the people shaping the general vision have seen long hair.
I agree it doesn’t seem like he’s gotten through the third season. Much of it was about what you’d expect from the source, but the following lines surprised me:
“Castles are tributes to human rapacity, not to elegance or simple skill in architecture. A wall is a declaration of fear, whether unnecessary or well-founded.” Then he follows it up by ripping off G. K. Chesterton. The subsequent bit about each generation following some of the same processes was more perceptive than most complaints about kids-these-days.
Balerion The Cat,
I could swear it was february 8. Damn, I was getting hyped for it! Anyways, I reeeeealy hope we get something soon, that year ender was good, but I need more. If any sort of trailer airs on sunday I’ll be a happy man.
I am a tad concerned with Kit’s new do, if they do follow the books concerning Snow’s