It took a few days, but George R. R. Martin has finally commented on the news of the greenlit prequel pilot based on his expansive world of A Song of Ice and Fire. Martin goes on to give us an update on his work on the next book in the series, The Winds of Winter. You probably learned not to get too excited about such updates a long time ago (let’s just say you will, yet again, not be disappointed in your disappointment), but he also reveals the fate of the other spin-offs in development. There are a few surprises there!
On his newly revamped Not a Blog, Martin expands on the setting and possible titles of the greenlit pilot. His suggestion confirms our suspicions about its specific setting, based on the reported early synopsis, which pointed us to the darkest era in the Age of Heroes: the Long Night. And that’s exactly the title Martin would choose!
This one really puts the PRE in prequel, since it is set not ninety years before GAME OF THRONES (like Dunk & Egg), or a few hundred years, but rather ten thousand years (well, assuming the oral histories of the First Men are accurate, but there are maesters at the Citadel who insist it has only been half that long). We’re very early in the process, of course, with the pilot order just in, so we don’t have a director yet, or a cast, or a location, or even a title. (My vote would be THE LONG NIGHT, which says it all, but I’d be surprised if that’s where we end up. More likely HBO will want to work the phrase “game of thrones” in there somewhere. We’ll know sooner or later).
As for the production itself, Martin is quick to praise the accomplished Jane Goldman, who will pen the pilot and serve as showrunner if the series is picked up; and just as quick to make it clear his involvement is purely advisory, at least for the time being. Of course, the reason Martin can’t be more involved in this show, or the later Game of Thrones seasons for that matter, is that he’s still hard at work on the sixth book:
All of the news stories about the pilot being greenlit are slapping my own picture up there next to Jane’s, which is very flattering but also a little misleading. […] I’ve consulted with all of the writers on all of the successor shows, and several of them have visited me in Santa Fe for long days of discussion, and we’ve gone back and forth in email, text, and telephone, so I have definitely been involved… but really, the accolades here should go to Jane. She has been an absolute thrill to work with… and my god, what a talent.
[…] (And yes, before you ask, work on WINDS OF WINTER continues, and remains my top priority. It is ridiculous to think otherwise. If I wasn’t busy with WINDS, don’t you think I’d be scripting one or more of these pilots myself? It’s not as if I’ve never written for TV…)
As for the other “successor shows”, as Martin refers to them, they haven’t been shelved just because Goldman’s was greenlit for a pilot… or not all of them have, at any rate:
[Y]ou know that we started with four [shows], and eventually went to five. One of those has been shelved, I am given to understand, and of course Jane’s pilot is now moving to film. But that does not mean the others are dead. Three more GAME OF THRONES prequels, set in different periods and featuring different characters and storylines, remain in active development. Everything I am told indicates that we could film at least one more pilot, and maybe more than one, in the years to come. We do have an entire world and tens of thousands of years of history to play with, after all. But this is television, so nothing is certain.
Though it seems unlikely that HBO would want several Game of Thrones prequels on air at the same time, it’s good to know this wasn’t a “There can only be one” situation. There may have been a competition for which one of the five shows in development got into production first, and one of them may have been shelved, but there are still three other stories in this world which may get to be told some day. If you were disappointed by the Long Night setting of Goldman’s pilot, perhaps your preferred one is yet to come!
Hold the front door!
“Finish the damn book already” griping to commence in 5, 4, 3….
“Of course, the reason Martin can’t be more involved in this show, or the later Game of Thrones seasons for that matter, is that he’s still hard at work on the sixth book.”
_________________
😆😆🤣😂😅😜
YES!!! The long night!!! Oh, this is getting better and better, I’m so excited, exactly what I was hoping for!!!
Ten Bears,
I mean, I do believe he is. I’m not optimistic about him finishing any time soon, or finishing book seven at all, but I do believe he’s working hard. Sometimes that isn’t enough, but I don’t think you can ask more of someone. We’re certainly not “entitled” to any of it, in any real sense of the word.
People love to shit on Martin for letting the show get ahead of his books, as they love to shit on D&D for getting ahead of the books and making the show less book-like in the process; but I can’t imagine there is anyone more disappointed in this situation than these three are. Martin certainly would have preferred to tell his story himself first; and Benioff & Weiss signed up for an adaptation of actual books, not of a vague outline.
Mmyeah, The Long Night is a terrible title for a tv series imo. It’s too… broad and abstract, nor does it really roll of the tongue. I’d prefer the title I’ve seen others suggest, Age of Heroes (or in the case of James Hibberd, Game of Thrones: Age of Heroes, which is probably a bit much and would be shortened in use anyway).
It’s almost definitely going to be “Game of Thrones” followed by something else, at least officially. The Long Night would be good for such a subtitle, in my opinion, though not as evocative alone. Age of Heroes sounds too much like generic fantasy to me, personally, but I can see the appeal.
As we already know what happens in Roberts rebellion why don’t they make a movie out of this. It would be a great 2 chapter movie. Like first will end with Lianna “kidnapping” and the second will be pure action and sword fights. Make it happen
Luka Nieto,
Oh, don’t get me wrong. I don’t think he owes anything to anyone. I think he’s entitled to kick back, eat hot dogs, and watch football games. 25 years is too long to retain a passion for just about anything in this world.
I’m all for George resting on his laurels and taking a victory lap. He’s earned it.
To: Che; talvikorppi
How about this for a prequel title?
“Nymeria Super Ninja Assassin Warrior Princess Fantasies.”
Has a nice ring to it, don’t you think? 😀
Luka Nieto,
My perspective on that title is from thinking about the show being referred to among viewers and within the media. It just doesn’t sound good/right to me to picture Fallon or Kimmel doing their monologues and saying, “Hey everybody, the new season of The Long Night starts this Sunday!” The same feeling goes with telling people about the show. If they were to attach Game of Thrones to the title I think it will be shortened to (the rest) in conversation regardless, such as Solo and Rogue One.
Age of Heroes may be a bit generic, but at least it’s not depressing sounding. 🙂 It’s just my opinion of course and if this or whatever show they do is good it won’t matter.
In a vacuum, The Long Night sounds like a noir detective yarn or a World War II movie. If they do decide to use it, I’d bet on it being preceded by Game of Thrones:.
Age of Heroes sounds way too much like a videogame.
So does Game of Thrones actually. If some company had been smart there would have been a really good RPG (like Skyrim) out and running with the series simultaneously. Even better, had MMORPGs not lost their luster the last handful of years and they made a good one I would have been all over it.
How about “Blood of the First Men: A Game of Thrones story” (going with the latest Star Wars naming conventions)
If George was as ‘hard at work’ on the next book equivalent to the number of times he has been described, by himself or others, as ‘hard at work’ on the next book.. the Winds of Winter would be about 11,000 pages by now.
Grayven Reyne,
He may have written that many, or more. He rewrites a lot.
It’s nice to know that some of the other concepts are still simmering on the back burner. Personally, I don’t see how it would be problematic to have two shows running simultaneously if one of them is something like what has already been greenlit, aimed at the adult GoT market, and the other were a more kid-friendly series set in the same universe that would screen earlier in the evening.
To my mind, the Dunk & Egg novellas would work very well as a “family show” in a similar vein to the adventure series of my own youth: Robin Hood, Ivanhoe, Zorro, many of the live-action Disney TV features. I think they could even work in the suggestion that Dunk was Young Old Nan’s beau and an ancestor of Hodor without explicit sex scenes.
Besides expanding the market and giving parents a sop to toss to their elementary-school-aged kids when they demand to watch GoT, the cool part of such a series is that it would be a road show could run for a really long time, limited only by the aging of the actor playing Egg. Seems to me that the picaresque adventures of a dim-but-brave hedge knight and his wiseass squire could easily fuel a good team of writers (always checking in with GRRM to make sure that they’re not contradicting something he’s going to put into a future novella) to come up with new scenarios from week to week. (Being on that team seems like a dream job to me, actually!) If each episode was more or less narratively self-contained (with running jokes/character foibles, of course), viewers could pick up the story at any point. And audiences would get to visit many different places in Westeros that we haven’t yet seen.
I’d really like to see that happen. The folks who watch GoT for the nudity, violence, incest etc. can always stay up later until the kids are in bed and the other prequel show is on.
Clob,
I’m thinking they’d go with “GoT Heroes” for short.
Tron79,
“Blood of the First Men”, mm yeah… That sounds really racist, and in a white-supremacy way. DOA, IMHO.
Firannion,
For what it’s forth, it’s confirmed that neither Dunk & Egg nor Robert’s Rebellion are among the original five spin-offs in development. But I agree with your general sentinment: they could have two concurrent shows in the same world, as long as they are distinct enough. By “several” I meant all or most of them; I don’t think we’re going to have 3 or 4 shows at the same time.
I’m curious what the shelved idea was. We already knew RR, D&E and a character spin-off were out. I assume whatever it was it must not have been seen as very viable if it was just crossed off.
How about “Game of Thrones: The Age of Merchandising”
Ha! j/k
I think 1 spinoff at a time would be better, but that’s just my opinion, of course. More than that might result in too much oversaturation and diminish the value that each show would bring. I’m sure some people can never get enough of the GoT world, but IMO, most casual watchers might get tired of multiple prequels running at one time. It’s just too much for some people. Of course, if the prequels are really good then none of that will matter, but we’ll see. I’m trying to be optimistic about the prequels, but historically speaking, most prequels, sequels, reboots, whatever are rarely ever good and slowly piss away the legacy that the original created.
I’ll feel more reason to be optimistic as long as the writers and consultants for stay at a couple of people at maximum. The more producers and HBO Board members or whomever get involved, the worse it will be.
Budgetary issues might have been a deciding factor. One would think that a series set in Old Valyria, where every upscale family has at least one dragon parked in the driveway, would be prohibitively costly to produce, for example.
We wouldn’t want the dragons to get “ghosted” / “direwolved” 😀
Understood. But that doesn’t mean that they couldn’t develop such a concept a little later on. At some point their marketing consultants will be asking, “What part of the potential viewership haven’t we reached yet?” and the answer will come back, “Kids.”
Firannion,
Sure. At some point, perhaps. But considering how long this first spin-off will take to produce, and that the other three in development will be ready to go afterwards, what are we talking about here? A decade, at the very least?
HBO could make a mint with a mini-series entitled: “The Worst Sh*t in the Seven Kingdoms.”
Ep.1: Happy little boy playing with toy knight in front of fireplace….
…and at this rate, I never will again.
Game of Thrones: The Others
TWOW still in progress… nothing new. Well, I stopped caring years ago so now it’s only casual news for me. 😄 At the moment, I’m looking forward to the resolution of TV series as my (currently 3rd) favorite TV show will finally come to an end and I hope it will be on high note… I started watching it from day one onwards and it holds a special place in my heart. I definitely look forward to those spinoffs as well.
All they’d need to do is back up a Brink’s truck loaded with $25 million cash to Maisie W’s front door to induce her to play the lead in talvikorppi’s “Arya Super Ninja Assassin Warrior Princess Fantasies.” For the hell of it, they could toss in a talking white pony and a trusted direwolf sidekick Nymeria.
Even if it were a cartoon, I’d watch.
Lord Parramandas,
“TWOW still in progress… nothing new.”
__________
Breaking news! Water is still wet.
I don’t think so, as he said it himself, writing stories is his calling and this series is his life’s work. He won’t stop.
And btw I can’t imagine you not being passionate about Arya Stark anymore…even in 25 years. 😄
Ten Bears,
This is actually an awesome idea for a kid’s cartoon. And I can totally see Masie Williams agreeing to this… she would never want anyone else voicing Arya. To be honest I’d even like it more if it wasn’t a kids cartoon, but a more adult cartoon… and then you can include the Hound in some episodes 🙂 I’d watch every single one.
Luka Nieto,
Honestly, I’m pretty sure the problem is that GRRM has thrown too many balls up in the air and can’t find a good way to get them down again. I’m sure the hope is in vain, but I’d prefer if he acknowledged this and after S8E6 made an extensive Q&A where he explained his ideas and gave his verdict on fan theories (true, didn’t think of that, no because XYZ, WTF!?)
animated Arya and Sandor
https://i.redd.it/dc5xvw70cvrz.jpg
Love it! I’m sold!
Did anyone else pick up on him stating that the maesters of the citadel don’t believe it happened 10,000 years ago, but more likely half that. Mere coincidence that Valyria began 5000 years ago? 🤔 I’m probably splitting hairs, but him saying that has intrigued me. I wonder if we’ll explore the beginnings of Valyria in this piece as well – maybe that’s the mystery to the east that was alluded to before. Would love that.
How about:
‘A Song of Ice’ (set in the Long Night)
‘A Song of Fire’ (set in Valyria)
:p
Schoolbook,
That is an outstanding idea. Well conceived.
Coming from the perspective of someone who writes for her living (though not epic-length novels), I don’t think that’s the problem. A lot of the smaller, less time-consuming balls that he has thrown in the air in the last few years, such as editing some new Wild Cards collections, have come back down again and been put away. And I can understand why he feels the need to add a new one once in a while.
The thing is, when writing is your daily work, it’s great when you find yourself “in the zone” and can stay on-task with a lot of enthusiasm for a long stretch. But you always need to change things up every so often. You need brain breaks, or you’ll burn out. I’ve got an article due today, and here I am checking in to see what’s going on at Watchers instead. Or I’ll play a quick game of something, using different parts of my brain. Then I can go back to work mentally refreshed.
I can’t imagine working on the same immensely long writing project doggedly, day in and day out, without interspersing it with other activities (including other writing). Maybe that’s why I’m not a novelist. But I’m certainly willing to cut someone with GRRM’s gifts a whoooooole lot of slack.
Really? I didn’t get that at all. They talk about the First Men all the time on the other side of the wall.
I NEED to see Aegon’s conquest and the dance of the dragons on TV before I die. PLEASE!
The long night is…. cool I guess? I am more interesting in the political side/iron throne than in the magical one, so a series only based on The Others against humanity doesn’t really sound appealing to me.
But hey, I am sure they will find a way to keep me gripped. Perhaps the foundation of all the houses in Westeros (especially in the reach by Garth Greenhand) could be quite interesting to see too.
I wonder if they will stay true to Game of Thrones or if they change things a little bit. Cause in GOT we saw that Leaf was already around before the Long Night so i wonder if they will bring her back in any form, same thing with the White Walkers, will they keep the characterization we are used to or will they try an aproach more faithful to how they are described in the books? Will we see the Night King? I hope they will order a full season cause I’m really curious to see what are they going to do with this period of time that we have little information about.
Old Valyria might be a good candidate for an animated series, where rendering realistic-looking beasties isn’t an issue. (I would just hope that they don’t go for anime style, but something more ‘medieval European.’)
I’m not all that fascinated by evil-by-nature creatures myself, and it seems like the show has diverged too far from the books in its depiction of the Others to make it possible to ‘humanize’ them retrospectively.
However, I wouldn’t mind a focus on the high magic of ancient days if it shows us, for example, how Bran the Builder built Winterfell and the Wall, including insights into their deep secrets that have so far only been hinted at in vague terms.
I also expect that a depiction of Lann the Clever that shows where Tyrion inherited his wit could mean a character who is just as engaging (given the right actor). If we’re mostly stuck in the North, we might find out quite a bit more about these She-Bears of House Mormont and how they earned their shapeshifting reputation!
Patrick,
I am curious if they will attempt to retcon the White Walker’s origin we saw in GoT. Could be jarring as Bran’s powers to see what happened seem straightforward and they don’t really lend themselves to “what you saw was only true from a certain point of view.” It gives this new show less room to maneuver. But good writing can pull off seemingly impossible things. So they might try another bite at the apple to tweak what we think we know.
I have to confess the origin we saw in the show didn’t feel quite BIG enough or scary enough. I mean it worked but the CoTF ritual with the dragonglass dagger happened so fast in the flashback and then it was over. That one decision/moment was arguably the most pivotal in the entire history of Westeros with the longest lasting consequences.
I have absolutely no idea how you are seeing racism or “white supremacy” in those five simple words. I despair, I really do.
Luka Nieto,
Yeahhhh… no.
give me florian and jonquil and I’ll be happy
Very well said.
Luka Nieto,
I agree. But there’d be nothing wrong if he threw in the towel and abandoned the books. I honestly feel bad for the guy that he’s got this pressure on himself at this stage in his life. That’s why I feel he should be able to rest on his laurels.
If the inspiration to finish the books happens to come, great. If not, that’s okay too. I’m not dumping on him at all.
(Imagine if Shakespeare’s fans started bashing him? “Hey! Where’s the f*cking sequel to Romeo & Juliet where Romeo and Juliet get resurrected by a pharmacist and trauma surgeon? Get off your ass Bill!”)
Luka Nieto,
And as I’ve said before, there’s no way the showrunners could’ve fathomed when they undertook this massive project that they’d pass the books and have to write scripts from scratch, and produce 7-10 quality episodes every year on time and under budget, without the luxury of rewrites and reshoots if a story line that looked good on paper didn’t measure up once filmed.
George shouldn’t have to make excuses or “force” himself to work. He should kick back and enjoy himself. If his muse returns, great. If not, that’s fine too.
I think I’d like a Dunk and Egg series the most…but I’ll give any GOT show a chance.
I’d like to get the 6th book to see how he finishes the book 5 cliff hangers in his own words…but then I don’t think I need the 7th book.
I’m glad Jane Goldman got a warm appreciation by GRRM. “The Long Night” will certainly be a challenge. There really hasn’t been much of anything formally written about the Long Night, given that GRRM has chosen to mercilessly dwell on those wacky Targ histories. The sky is the limit for Goldman and I’m sure she’ll make the most of it.
Will Azor Ahai make an appearance?
As many have stated before, I simply would like S8 to give us some rationale of the WW’s original intent and purpose and reboot (other than the CotF’s obsidian Frankenstein gone rogue). Please don’t save that as an endgame for “The Long Night”.
As far as TWoW goes, I doubt it will be what anyone expects and I’m willing to bet it will only abstractly resemble GoT. (Oh, the show purists will now spout mandatory ‘known’ plot points and endgame convergence. 🙂 Yippee! I dream of a wight-hunt rehash and ‘Sansa saves the realm’! (*sarcasm*)) The optimist within still whispers “The show is the show and the book is the book.”
I think its more than known that the winds Will be the biggest book yet. I think Will pass 1000 Pages for SURE. And i think Will be realeased att the period of 2020 – 2022.
Those’re pretty much my thoughts exactly!
I didn’t express myself clearly. With “too many balls ” I meant subplots, not other projects. I like most of the subplots in the later books, but I think they are the reason why it’s so hard to finish the book in a satisfactory way.
I’m partial to “Arya: Ninja Pirate Queen,” myself.
I’ll go for A Game of Nights and Ice!!!!
Schoolbook,
A Game of Thrones: Too Many Balls
So when is the fancasting hype going to begin?
Currently being screentested for the role of Bran the Builder:
– Bob the Builder
– Bob Vila
– Tim Allen
– Super Mario the Plumber
Ah, sorry for the writer rant, I misunderstood you. That makes more sense: too many loose ends in the story left to knit back together.
Speaking of actual casting… On the surface I’d say roles on a new series would be coveted. You’d think actors missing out or skipping out on parts for GoT and kicked themselves when it became such a hit would try pretty hard to get on the next series. I don’t know – maybe not. On the other side of it, considering how many actors came through GoT it almost seems impossible for at least some of them to find their way into the next one. I’m referring to smaller role people of course.
If the show is focusing on the Long Night, it shouldn’t be called Age of Heroes. The Long Night is the end of that age. That would be like if Game of Thrones picked up as the Iron Throne was destroyed and Westeros turned into a democracy over the duration.
I see a name coming we won’t expect. It’s just like guessing episode titles. We can come up with things that may make sense, but in the end, we’re unlikely to guess correctly.
Clob,
Here’s my selection for the matriarch of the Stark family:
https://fanparty.ru/fanclubs/underworld-film/gallery/2104891_underworld_film_pic.jpg
…and another shot in “Northern” appropriate fur
http://www.dreadcentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/india-eisley.jpg
Maybe the Andal invasion. .. bc that was kind of the end of Age of Heroes and the beginning of the transition into the more modern age of Westeros… the separate seven kingdoms. At least according do The World of Ice and Fire….
It is??? Wow!
I hate to burst readers’ bubbles, but GM’s top priority at the moment is eating my balls. This will take some time as they are quite large.
A Game of Thrones: Holy Balls!
Since Game of Thrones (the original series) will have ended by the time the prequel airs, even if they call it Game of Thrones: The Long Night or Game of Thrones: The Age of Heroes, or whatever, don’t you think everyone will just refer to it as Game of Thrones?
What is that Gem stone GRRM is always wearing on his hat? If he takes it off does he get a reverse melisandre effect?
Ten Bears,
Well, if not finishing your story means you’ve “earned it”, then he’s earned it. Conceptually, that’s a bit like congratulating a jet pilot for flying you five-sevenths of the way home across the Atlantic. I’d be tempted to say, “Congratulations, pilot, for getting us five-sevenths of the way, but if you really want an “attaboy”, make sure to complete the other two-sevenths and land us, even if it’s in a friggin’ cornfield.” Finish what you started. An incomplete tale is a tale poorly told, and as a reader of tales, I have every right to say that.
Duncan Donuts,
You know what? You’re right. Good analogy. Even if he just released a twenty-page “flight plan”, that wouldn’t be terrible. It would beat parachuting out of the cockpit in mid-air and leaving the passengers to figure out how to reach the destination.
Che,
Semi Off-Topic….
About prequels:
I just read that GoT vet Alan Taylor is to direct “The Sopranos” prequel movie. He directed eight or nine episodes of “The Sopranos” on HBO. On Game of Thrones, he directed:
• episode 1.09 “Baelor”
• episode 1.10 “Fire and Blood”
• episode 2.01 “The North Remembers”
• episode 2.02 “The Night Lands”
• episode 2.08 “The Prince of Winterfell”*
• episode 2.10 “Valar Morghulis”
• episode 7.06 “Beyond the Wall”
* Aka “A Man Can Go Kill Himself”