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Game of Thrones Season 6, Episode 4 “Book of the Stranger”
Writers: David Benioff and D.B. Weiss
Director: Daniel Sackheim
Runtime: 59 minutes
Content Warnings: TV-MA: Adult Content, Adult Language, Nudity, Violence
Video Preview: Full episode 4 preview on YouTube
Synopsis: Tyrion strikes a deal. Jorah and Daario undertake a difficult task. Jaime and Cersei try to improve their situation.
*Note: this post is for ALL viewers so please use spoiler coding when discussing ASOIAF or filming spoilers.*
Remember, we have a contest beginning today based in part on Twitter activity surrounding the new episode this week- check out Axechucker’s post for details! So if you’ve never tweeted about Game of Thrones but thought about doing it, now is the time to start.
Spoiler coding is still required in this Open Chat post prior to the episode’s official airing (9PM EDT tonight for Season 6 Episode 4). We ask that fans use consideration for your fellow viewers, and cover and label your spoilers appropriately. Thank you!
Sweet Robin.
Wylis!
Kingslayer
Inb4 you are more hyped for E05 preview than episode 4 itself
Top of my list for this ep: Sansa and Jon reunion
Almost nothing else matters this ep, for me.
Jansa!!!!
Can’t bloody wait, and 59 minutes ?
Sounds like a dream, can’t wait for tonight ^^
The wall is going to be packed with brilliant character interactions 🙂
Bearded Onion,
Will it happen though? I mean, Jon conveniently left Castle Black just about as a reunion was right around the corner.
JONSA OR BUST!
It is always such a pleasure each week to see that the Open Chat is finally there. It means the show will start soon!
Is it me or are the pictures and preview not so exciting this week? Except maybe for Sansa. Where is she arriving?
Hype!! I have a 99.9% chance that Jon and Sansa will reunite tonight!!!!!
Jon snow, edd, Davos, Melesendre, Tormund, wun wun, Sansa, Brienne, and podrick all at the wall ?
The hype is to real right now….
If Jon and Sansa are about to meet I hope it happens soon. I want the last 10-15min for the big Vaes Dothrak scene.
Stark reunion has to happen! Been too long. The north remembers!
In the teaser the Pink Letter is read by Ramsey.
I would love that… to hear Ramseys voice reading the letter while Jon is looking at it.
Jon has not left the wall, he just walk to another part of Castle Black.
Flayed Potatoes,
I want more Bran and his visions but I doubt we will get him this episode. Looks like he’s sitting this one out, sadly. Episode 5 better show us the rest of Tower of Joy or imma be pissed!
Jansa better happen tonight too 😀
Episode 4 should end with a game changing moment, wonder what this will be…
Connor,
I’ve resigned myself to the fact that Bran will sadly skip this episode 🙁
I hope episode 5 gives us all the answers.
Who’s gonna bite the dust tonight?
My bet is on Sweet Robin.
I can totally see that happening tonight, that “Winterfell is mine, come and see” line has to bee part of the pink letter.
I want this to happen
https://twitter.com/b_cogman/status/731876343026044929
Cogman HYPE. Tonight we learn what book of the stranger means.
r-hard,
Osha
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Ramsay will tell to Jon that ”Winterfell is mine. Come and see…(bastard?).” eye to eye.
Will tonight be the first big CGI set piece of the season? It’s also the first beefy episode of the season clocking in at 59 minutes 🙂
Flayed Potatoes,
I think she will be one of those who gets burned alive on a cross by Ramsay to provoke the wildlings. :/
And I also looking forward to dany scene with dosh khaleen as much as the last scene ..please god give Emilia and dany something to work with
Connor,
Why wud you want the reveal to the biggest mystery in all of asoiaf to be in a random episode 5???
Thats gotta happen at a climactic point when the reveal actually matters….
Alfie just posted a BTS picture of him and Gemma. Excited for them tonight as well!
I’m sure that “Book of the Stranger” will be a great episode, as they all are. But really, all that I require from this particular hour of television is for Jon and Sansa to reunite and share a nice long hug. That moment alone would go a long way towards healing my heart after Spurs broke it into a thousand bloody pieces today.
Very interested to see who Ser Jorah was fighting in the preview. If you try and pause the clip at the right time it almost looks like Daario!
HelloThere,
That’s what a lot of people here think, and the summary for episode 5 is “Bran learns a great deal” it could happen episode 5, that’s what I think, it could also be the White Walkers, who knows really.
Jack Bender shot TOJ, his episodes are #5 The Door and #6 Blood of my Blood so in all likelihood it will happen in one of those…
Belacel,
I slightly agree. I’m almost certain that it’s that way on purpose though. Episode 4 always has something great in it. Birth of the Shadow Baby in season 2 episode 4, Dany gets the Unsullied in season 3, White Walker baby in season 4, and then back to the Dany storyline in season 5 with Barristan’s death.
First 3 episodes in and D&D have proven that they can still write fantastic television without the books.
I watched the Tower of Joy scene over 10 times so far and it gets better each time.
My only hope for this episode is that Sansa and Jon meet and don’t have some of “just missed” story arc.
I really feel like the two sides are starting to take shape…. The North vs South….
r-hard,
Nobody really knows who she is and if she’s a Wildling. My guess is that he’ll flay her, but who knows.
nggahhhhhh! I couldn’t sleep last night and the wait seems twice as long! I’m so anxious and excited we may see Sansa & Jon…. together?!?! 😀
My best guess is that the High Sparrow talks about that with Margaery.
jonathan,
He didn’t leave, he was talking through an archway to another part of the castle and they cut to black. Why would he mic drop and leave with just the clothes on his back–no plan, no Davos, no Ghost? It was for dramatic effect, not meant to be taken literally.
That being said, if there is a Jonsa near miss tonight, there will be one coffee table in Arizona getting flipped Real Housewives style.
im so hyped for kingslanding
plz let cersei choose violence…
i want my mother of madness to finally let loose!
I think Danny might say a version of this, but in Dothraki…No problem for Jorah since he’s quite fluent…lol.
All I’d like is for a little levity in Theon’s life at some point again – too much to ask? Constantly beaten down. Likely more with Euron. Enough!
Just give us a Stark reunion. We deserve one. Otherwise really looking to Dothraki and Iron Born stuff.
One of Roose Bolton’s 20 good leeches,
Well, presented like this… I will expect something big!
And there is the mysterious title of the episode. Even after all the suggestions and hypotheses that I have seen, I still have no idea what to expect : faceless men rituals, a quote by the High Sparrow?
Book of the Stranger is possibly the first bit of show-first/only-introduced lore. I can’t wait to see what it refers to.
“The North Remembers But D&D Make ‘Em Forget!!”
I’m feeling almost positive they gonna do yet another Bran-Jon (x2) , Rob/Cat-Arya style near-miss!!
These Stark near-misses are like a GoT cliche now…that and the fan-favorite-knocked-down-in-battle-but-suddenly-saved-by-an-unexpected-stab-in-the-back-of-the-attacker – which I feel we gonna get with Daeny in Dosh Khaleen
Here’s the one’s of that second cliche I remember:
Jon-Karl / Catelyn-an attacker (when she had Tyrion captured S1, Tyrion saved her) / Jon-Ygritte / Jorah-Fighter in Mereen pit / Missandei-Harpy guy in the Mereen pit / Tyrion-Mandon Moore (Battle of Blackwater) / Ned-Dayne / Pod-boltoner
Can also add:
Bran-Lannister assassin in S1 / Bran-wight outside TER cave / Daenerys-Sons of Harpy in pit – and possibly this ep with Daenerys-Khals (Pets decided to tease their masters and come at the last possible moment)
I am hoping to see: 1) RICKON 2) what northern shitstorms have blown down into the Vale 3) Jon packing up his books from Aemon & strolling out with Ghost. What I not-so-secretly want (need) to see: 1) Jon tagging alongside Tormund’s crew 2) Jon and Sansa losing their minds with grief and happiness 3) Tormund & Brienne meeting 4) Rickon living through Ramsay’s disaster
!! I thought this too, but am too tech-unsavvy to get a better look. Why are the boys squabbling when mommy is in such danger? Will
Looking forward to more Alfie Allan emoting. He’s fabulous again this season!
What I hope to see…
a Jon and Sansa hug
Theon chatting with Uncle Euron
Something exciting in the KL story line; maybe a death or two
I dunno why, but somehow I’m not really excited about Jon meeting with Sansa. Prefer they won’t meet…and Sansa should go different path to looking for Arya :”” (my most wanted Stark reunion)
I’m not excited because they weren’t close to each otherk. I’d care much more if that was a Jon/Arya or Arya/Sansa reunion.
I know everyone is hyped for Jonsa but I’m also excited for Yara and Theon reuniting!
I really love the title Book of the Stranger, there is just something cool about it. However, I don’t expect anything mindblowing from this episode – I’m sure it’s another good hour of TV though.
Things I look forward to: Stark reunion (or Jansa as people say), Greyjoy reunion (I guess it’s Thara then? Or Thasha for bookwankas :D), perhaps some FrankenGregor action(?), and Dany’s storyline moving forward (hopefully). Am I forgetting something? Oh yes, sneaky mister Baelish.
We are 100% getting a Sansa and Arya reunion at some point, most likely in S7. That too will be amazing and begin a great arc for them both.
I feel like Sansa and Jon reuniting and battling to retake WF would be extremely satisfying because both of them wanted nothing else but to leave WF in aGoT/S1 and both had naive childish thoughts on how society worked, they were both kinda arrogant at the start, both feel like they’ve let down their family and some other stuff. Jon and Sansa have more in common than people think, watching them both embrace their Stark heritage together and being the ones to restore order to the north is going to be amazing.
Bring on Jansa, BRING ON JANSA!
Same here.
I’m guessing a Stark reunion will happen because in the show version of the story, Bastard Bowl will be sparked at least in part by Ramsay’s treatment of Sansa and now, of Rickon. It’ll have more impact if he hears it first hand. I could be wrong, but I’m hoping it will happen.
I also hope to see Drogon back in action.
Kargaryen,
Yes they weren’t close in the book and not much interaction between those two..so, I imagine their reunion will be kinda awkward and weird…I dunno tho. Sansa used to call him “half-brother” and I don’t really know if she really considers him as brother or not.
Oh yes! Jon/Arya or Sansa/Arya would be very good indeed!
Bearded Onion,
Exactly!!! The Reunion That Was Promised!
Ned’s Direwolf,
Soo, you are complaining about two things that you are guessing that could happen in this episode?
I’m almost 100% sure the near-miss wont happen, but there is no use to argue about that – we’ll see soon enough.
Sansmund! slick as a baby seal ¬¬
Ashara D,
My idea is that
Also can’t wait to see more Euron!!
I want Tormund and Brienne to interact lmao.
In fact, I wouldn’t mind an entire episode with Jon, Sansa, Mel, Davos, Edd, Pod, and Tormund doing things. STARKVERNGERS ASSEMBLE!!
Yeah! Arya should be able to hit Sansa with oranges from 50 meters by now.
Except, who is she to the Wildlings? It is not as if they all know each other! Personally, I think it more probable that Osha escapes with a new dog-skin cloak from one of Ramsay’s little hunts, and winds up warning someone of Rickon’s fate. Still, it is all just empty speculation at this point.
Not really complaining at all pal! Just saying why I think they’ll happen, cos they’ve been happening regularly every season, including this one so far.
Yep we’ll see…I really hope not too.
Think will see Sams family this episode?
Flayed Potatoes,
By interact you mean make adorable amazonian killer ginger babies, right?
So hyped for tonight! Methinks I need to calm the fuck down and actually go to bed, like now, so I can wake up at 6am-ish to watch the episode (the joys of being in Europe).
Usually I make a huuuuuge effort to wait, avoid the internet like the plague and then watch it Monday night with others, but I had a shitty weekend and I refuse to wait!
Looking forward to this episode. Expecting it to be similar to episode 2 – Very good, while not being depressing/worrying.
PS. Which episodes this season is Bryan Cogman writing? Just curious.
Flayed Potatoes,
That’s a woman worthy of Tormund Giantsbane. In one of the promo photos it seems like someone or something caught his attention. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was Brienne. Can you imagine him being flirty with her. muhaha
Lyanna_Targaryen,
Of course 😉
Give us Jansa!!!
So excited for today’s episode!!
Ned’s Direwolf,
Ookay 😀 I’ve said it somewhere before but I’ll say it again: those earlier times the characters didn’t meet for a reason – their stories were going to a complete different directions. Best examples being the Craster’s Keep Jon-Bran (where Jojen even says that Bran must choose between Jon and 3ER) and the Arya-Sansa at Bloody Gate/Eyrie (where those two meeting would’ve seriously derailed Arya’s storyline). This time I just don’t see a reason why Sansa and Jon couldn’t meet – Both of their storylines is heading towards Bastardbowl.
GoTFan,
Ashara D,
Sorry guys that is a dothraki ser jorah fights not darrio
OMG *squee* So.looking.forward! to Yara/Theon reunion 🙂
Ashara D,
I’m pretty sure Jorah fights a Dothraki. What is more interesting to me is that all Vaes Dothrak scenes are at night
I thought we will see Jon-Sansa reunion this episode but… wouldn’t it just be simply stupid for Sansa team to go straight to Castle Black? Maybe
That’s Akho. One of the dothrakis, who were discussing how they’d love to bang Dany in 601. The one who has shorter hair.
Geralt of Rivia,
We need this flirting scene to happen. I’m sure he’d be in awe or her! Goodbye Jaime, hello Tormund!
Mihnea,
I think that will be next week. It looks like Sam and Gilly have the episode off, as do Bran and Arya.
The thing is we already saw what i expect we will see this episode in regards to Dany.
Dany getting unburnt and Drogon coming to the rescue is old news, i hope they will come up with something more then that.
I predict the shot of a giant Drogon flying over the khalissar in daylight is when Dany rides him over her newly acquired army in Ep 5 or 6.
The book of the Stranger, ayyyy? And with good old Queen Cersers alluding to a trial by combat so recently, ayyyyyyy? I suppose it hardly needs saying, but GET HYPE.
Looking forward to a possible Sansa/Jon reunion. But this is GoT, so who knows?
Also Theon back in the II. And believe it or not, I am looking forward to Dany’s story moving forward.
I’ve got a feeling Jorah bites the dust this episode.
We need a scene like Daenerys had when she first got the Unsullied with the 3 dragons flying above, Daeny on her horse, Jorah & Selmy star-struck and the awesome army formation – but a Stark-N. Westeros version instead of a Targaryen-Essos version.
Maybe a snowy landscape, the Northern Stark loyalist banners forming a colossus army, with battle-ready wildlings roaring in a squadron of their own with a giant or two; Jon leading them all with Stark banners flailing in the wind; Sansa & Arya riding on one side, Davos (holding Stark banner) and Melisandre on the other and the red-eyed Ghost and gold-eyed Nymeria leading a pack of white wolves in front of them…
Dazor Ahai,
Hope not. But characters are now dying like a flies these days. As we’re approaching the endgame. Want to see him in Westeros.
Flayed Potatoes,
Jaime who? 😀 When was the last time he saw woman like that. It could create a funny moment in rather serious, sad atmosphere.
Dazor Ahai,
Yea. Either him or Daario
Is it really a reunion when it is their first scene together?
Hoyti Von Totiy,
That’s why iam looking forward to the conversation between dany and dosh khalleens and her speech with khals ..
Agree with your prediction ..I have been saying that since we saw that shot ..that shot is obviously from dany’s point of view on top of drogon.
Dazor Ahai,
I don’t think so ..atleast I hope not
If they follow the books then he will be ending the series as 1000th LC of newly formed NW along with surviving unsullied army.IMO
When I mean follow the books..it’s pretty obvious he will reach westeros and there are certain things like dany promising him a great valyrain sword and jeor asking sam to tell jorah to take the black
Dazor Ahai,
Of course…he’s got the greyscale and just die already…no way. Maybe in season 7.
dragonbringer,
George R.R. Martin is that you? Yeah…i don’t think so. So just shhhh…
Ned’s Direwolf,
heh, the entire continent of maple trees could not produce quite so much syrup!
My guesses yes Jon and Sansa reunion happens. We have to start building up to episode 9. The pink letter arrives. Next few episodes will have Sansa and Davos building support from the remaining northern clans.
I think Loras might die today.
Most of the episode will be about Dany hopefully it will be interesting because her story has been boring. It needs to move forward.
Greyjoy reunion. Not sure if Uncle Euron shows up.
Give him time! I mean, the earliest you could expect GRRM to finish a post would be next month, right?
Ned’s Direwolf,
Don’t forget Summer and Bran!! They can take one of Littlefinger’s teleporters and arrive right in the midst of the action lol. With a triumphant version of the Stark theme music of course.
JORAH dies.
rickon dies
osha dies
small john Umber dies
mereen is under seige by the wise masters.
Dario the traitor
Sansa crowned queen in the north.
Arya gets a mission.
Noo, don’t say that.
Jared,
We know that… but, do they?
r-hard,
I have added IMO and why I think that will happen in the books..happy now ..
Ofcourse NW will be over and wall will be destroyed …
That’s why I said he will be LC of newly formed watch where the remaining unsullied will join the watch …this instance after the war of long night …either they take the black after dany dies and battle is won or dany gives him the unsullied and valyrian sword and makes him the New LC
Hope tonight the Starks and other wanderers begin/continue to kick some butt …There are still many they need to take out before they fight the white walkers! Lannisters, Boltons, Freys, slavers, Little Finger…Is there enough time for all of this to happen before the show runs its course?
newbietothegame,
I think with his grayscale getting worse, he’ll have one more blaze of glory to save Dany, I don’t think it looks good for Ser Friendzone.
Add to that we saw…
Sky Atlantic apparently released the “Previously On” video for Episode 4 on their Facebook page.
-Jorah finding Dany’s ring.
-Dany meeting the Dosh Khaleen.
-Smalljon Umber delivering Rickon and Osha to Ramsay.
-Sansa telling Theon they just need to make it to Castle Black and to Jon; Theon saying that Brienne will keep Sansa safe and that he will go home.
-Euron throwing Balon from the bridge.
-Varys revealing that the Masters of Astapor, Yunkai, and Volantis fund the Sons of the Harpy.
-Margaery asking the High Sparrow to let her see Loras.
-Robin Arryn hugging Baelish; Littlefinger telling Cersei that Robin heeds his advice.
-Littlefinger asking Yohn Royce and Anya Waynwood to back Robin as the Lord of the Vale.
-Jon descending the stairs post-resurrection; Davos telling him to go on; Jon declaring that his watch is ended.
Cogman’s tweet sure sounds interesting. It’s obviously going to be part of the KL story line. Is it simply some background info? Possible, but hardly worth naming the entire episode after it. If a major death is going to be part of the story there this week, it can only really be Loras. Could it be that he’s tried and executed all in this episode, with the “book of the stranger” being referred to during the sentencing?
We know
Bearded Onion,
If the reunion happens even relatively like what i imagined it then this is by far my favorite episode of the whole show so far, i don’t care about anything else in the episode. Now let us have our fingers crossed my fellow watchers.
While there weren’t pages in the books where they spent time together and the only scene in the show they were on screen together was in the courtyard for the king’s arrival in episode one, they are blood and were raised in the same castle. Time and awful events can make family members closer. They grew up with the same father, siblings, people of Winterfell, and neither of them have seen anyone else that shares that bond since Ned’s beheading.
Yeah, Bran and Rickon can be on 1 side of Jon each, and Summer will join his 2 siblings to give the pack a three-fold leadership…
Tbh if it was another fantasy show we couldve been accurately guessing the ending, but GoT wont give us the pleasure.
Anyway, a question I hope becomes relevant in the show:
Won’t Brienne having a Lannister sword made of Lord Eddard’s sword itself be a bit scandalous and mortifying to Jon and/or Arya…Sansa hasn’t cared so far!
The problem with that is the greyscale that D&D gave him, thereby appropriating the storyline of a different character in the book…and one would think that would give him plot armor at least until Westeros…but the title “Blood of My Blood” for 6.06 is quite ominous indeed on the Jorah front, I think.
Gravemaster,
Hope the Big Bear gives him a good shanking then!
Can’t wait for Daeny’s story to MOVE.
You actually believe that at the end of the series there will still be a Night’s Watch and The Wall will stand along with castle outposts protecting Westeros from the dangers north? You don’t think there will be a climactic clash with a resolution? That would essentially put everything back into an equal state as it was when the series began…
I don’t think Jorah’s going to get killed. Him and Daario are probably going to get captured (and can thank the Dothranki religious laws for not getting slaughtered outright), leading to a funny “Oh, you were here to rescue me? Well, thank the gods for that!” bit from Dany, before she’s doing her big scene.
George,
Well he can also take a leaf out of another character who got his hand cured by a certain red priest …atleast thats what i have been saying from the moment he got grescale ..
But I agree there is a possiblity that he may die sadly ..dany jorah team was there from episode 1 and yes they had ups and down between them but both cares for each other ..and with Barristan gone I hope jorah stays .
Jared,
Uh oh…think that he may be eating that and looking at Osha and Rickon? Is this perhaps where the
Shivers!
Winterstars,
Why would you prefer they DON’T? Sansas plight is perfect fuel for Jons next step. Though I’m starving for ANY Stark reunion.
Arya and Sansa may never come to pass, sadly. Just have a hunch.
Just the possibility of some flirting between Brienne and Tormund is reason enough to tune in tonight 😀
Clob,
I think there will be a new order and realm after the war ..
What i think will happen is they may try to build a new wall not huge as like now but something similar to remember by and to guard that new watch will be created ..
That’s just a gif from a previous season it seems…during Theon’s Reek transformation scenes. Ramsay’s a bit more composed this season than he looks there
We might figure out whether we see the Tower of Joy is we learn the directors. The current one obviously directed some of the action. Was there another director involved? I believe I read somewhere that they filmed inside the Tower. Who was directing then? That should tell us around where that scene might be.
I doubt Rickon will die that quick. Ramsey is certain to want to use him minimally for bait. Possibly to get Sansa back: “Come back or the kid dies.” Also, if he directly kills the kid he makes reconciliation impossible. He could blame Walder Frey and his father for the earlier deaths but not this one.
I have him low on the kill list. It’s hard to get a good villain. Unless Euron is a bloody monster, he’s what we’ve got. I’d like to see the three dragons use him for a nice little soccer match.
Ned's Direwolf,
I’m curious about the fate of both of the reforged swords. I think Tommen’s useless ass still has Widow’s Wail. Will Oathkeeper at least get a different pommel? If anything, HBO can sell more merchandise 😛
I’ve noticed that most of the footage from the two trailers have all been in the first few episodes, which is amazing. We have barely even SEEN what is to come in the next seven episodes!
4 hours till I FINALLY get my two favorite Starks in the same scene…..#TeamJansa
Jared,
It’s on their Fb page indeed! So we’ll go to WF in this ep after all! Surprising, certainly. Also of note, they showed Anya Waynwood in the vid. Might we see her again?
Jared,
Interesting! Thanks for sharing!
Apart from that, yay to Pentecost and bad weather, so I can stay at home tomorrow without remorse and watch GoT as often as I want, have apple pie, chat online and read and watch all the reviews all day long!
I do not think that Jon is in that scene, or in the feast scene. Bastards are kept out of the Queen’s sight, after all.
What if at the time of Jon, Sansa and company left Castle Black, they split?
Sansa, Davos, Melisandre (? and some Wildlings or guys left of the Nights Watch go to Bear Island and, probably, other locations to recruit House Mormont, Hornwood, etc.
And Jon, Tormund, Edd and the other half of Nights Watch guys and Wildlings go to White Harbor, Barrowton (? or other locations to recruit House Manderly, House Dustin or other Houses..
I don´t know, that would be SICK.
jonathan,
He didn’t leave Castle Black yet, he walked out of the courtyard and into the armory. The gate was behind him in the last shot.
this is what I am thinking too…the Pink Letter was awesome to read in the books.. but show wise it would be much more dramatic to have Ramsay come to CB to make his demands in PERSON.. and his parting line to Jon will be “Winterfell is mine.. Come and see”..and Jon does.. in episode 9
I don’t know about anyone else, but I really love how every episode starts off at the Wall.
so the beginning is sansa and crew arriving at Castle black ^^
Wimsey,
Jon is standing behind Ned..slightly to the right in the scene when Robert arrives at winterfell ..Kit is shaved so he looks slightly different (I have always wondered if this was a scene from the ORGINAL pilot and the shaving scene was added later to explain it lol)
Yes, he was. He was standing a few rows behind the family.
* beat to it.
People were arguing that on a theoretical level before, but the fact is simple: Sansa decided to go to Castle Black in 602, and nobody raised objections. If they were going to turn and head elsewhere, we’d have seen that in 603. Moreover, they expressed the opinion that they’d be untouchable in Castle Black, an opinion Roose Bolton evidently shared, so that’s the conventional thought on the matter.
Plus, in any event, they don’t know which other Northern noble house can necessarily be trusted, and certainly not to be preferred to Jon.
Dutch Maester,
I’d love to see Anya Waynwood again – I thought she was great in her lone appearance back in Season 4. My guess would be no, however, since Robin was being fostered at Runestone with Lord Royce the last time we saw him, and Lady Waynwood didn’t appear to be there. We also haven’t heard anything about Paola Dionisotti returning, though it’s always possible that something got past us. So I won’t pin any hopes on it, but it would certainly be a nice surprise if she did show up again!
Belacel,
Castle Black.
Jared,
We often don’t hear about returning guest stars (I don’t believe we would know Rupert Vansittart was back if he hadn’t said so directly), but all the same, I don’t think it’s all that likely we’ll see her. Royce is the Vale Guy, and they probably don’t need another. I certainly wouldn’t mind seeing her again though.
** He’s actually standing directly behind Sansa between Hodor and Maester Luwin.
I went to HBO Go to rewatch the scene for the fun of it. When I started the episode there was an HBO promo with a couple huge GoT spoiler shots. That’s not cool for new viewers.
Some people prefer DO and some people prefer DON’T
Because it’s just hard for me to see they meet, like I said before it will be awkward and weird, since those two were not really getting along well.
I know nothing about Jons next step, and maybe Sansa plight might be perfect fuel, or maybe not if the writers can think 1001 another ways for it.
Not like I hate the idea though. At least I like show!Sansa better than book!Sansa
I ain’t going to speculate on anything which may (or probably will not) happen in this episode. I agree a reunion with Jon and Sansa at The Wall would be nice, but would be surprised if that happens in E4. Also interesting to see how Jorah and Daario get on in their quest to find Dany and Yara’s reaction to Theon back in Pyke – She doesn’t look too pleased to see him again!
For me this will be a 2am via Sky Atlantic session. I also like to re-watch it Monday evening at 9pm via Sky as invariably I miss things the first time round. I’m just happy to go along with what little we’ve seen from the trailer and see how things pan out.
Good news that this episode has a 59 minute running time 🙂
Sean C.,
Agreed. Yohn Royce is likely going to be our stand-in for all of the Vale Lords other than Robin from this point on – especially because I doubt Lady Waynwood will be leading any armies. But yeah, it would be nice to see her.
I don’t believe that we’ll see Vance Corbray either – although it’s worth noting that in the Histories & Lore video on Valyrian Steel, Lady Forlorn is cited as one of the Valyrian Steel swords that still exists in Westeros (another is Heartsbane, the Tarly sword). It would be interesting if that sword winds up coming North – although if it does, I doubt it would become relevant until Season 7.
Matthew The Dragon knight,
I don’t care if there is other big scenes in this episode, with the potential reunion i want a considerable screen time for Wall tonight. I prefer the reunion happens at the beginning then another scene with them together towards the end of episode.
What the fuck is a Lommy?,
I doubt that Edd and the remains of the Nights Watch would just abandon the Wall like that.
Sansa, Davos, Mel leave the Wall in ep 5 we know this from the images released.
It is highly doubtfull that Jon would stay in CB after his My watch has ended line where Ramsey could come and visit his using the Litlefinger teleport device… so no eye to eye is not happening.
The Pink Letter may not be sent to the Wal this Ep, we could just see/hear Ramsey writing it.
Winterstars,
I think that’s why I AM so excited to see it. They never even had a scene together, but she grew up with him; he’s nostalgically familiar to her, something she hasn’t had since Ned’s head was lopped off. I think that would be incredibly powerful moment. But like you said, different people, different preferences.
Sooo, I just want to know if we are seeing the conclusion to the ToJ Bran vision.
Does anyone know or will D&D make us wait a few more weeks?
JANSA PLEEEEEEASE!!!
Can’t watch it live (2am here) so hope you all enjoy it! If Jansa happens can some of you sqeeeeeeee/shed a tear for me please. Also give Loras a big hug ’cos I feel he is not long for this world. If, as I fear, it’s due to his sister it’ll be kick the tv in time 🙁 I HATE apples and the sound of people eating them; just when I thought I couldn’t hate Ramsay any more than I already do >_< Catch up with you all tomorrow. Night night *waves goodbye* 😀
https://twitter.com/chuksta/status/731946661845553153
Chuku Mondu HYPE
I wonder if ‘stranger’ also refers to…
The name of the Hound’s horse, and we may see that potential plot tonight? [/ spoiler]
maybe they just left because of the White Walkers… realize, of course, that it is impossible to defend the Wall, if they stay in Castle Black, they are dead.
also, in the Trailer 2 in the shot of Sansa on the battle, you can see a Nights Watch guy on the back.
Exactly my feelings…it’s what’ll make this particular Stark reunion unique to any other possible pairing (wait, we haven’t seen any Benjen-Arya/Sansa/Bran interactions too. Those’ll have an interesting dimension to them too).
Another reason is that it’s between the most meek, abused and innocent Stark sibling on one hand, and the most strong, experienced and valiant on the other.
First time poster here in the comments! Question about the Open Chat. Is it in this comments section, or, is there an app that opens up a wee chat box? ‘Cos I don’t see it on the site if that’s the case.
Clob,
Ah, I did not remember him being there.
Yeah, it would be. However, Sansa is in “flight” mode, and Brienne & Pod would not necessarily be aware that Ramsay would expect her to go there. So, the people thinking clearly do not know that it is necessarily a bad idea, and the people who know it’s a bad idea are not thinking clearly.
At this point, I could see it going either way. The door has been both positively identified as the Castle Black doors and positively shown to not be those doors.
My thoughts are conflicted. From the perspective of plot, I would have thought that they would have shown us Brienne and/or Pod learning that Ramsay would expect Sansa to flee to Castle Black last episode. However, from the perspective of story, I expect Jon and Sansa to independently try to line up alliances. Of course, for the first time, we are in the dark as to what they story is this year: and that makes it harder to be certain about what generally needs to be accomplished in the next 7 hours of TV.
I’ll be surprised if Sansa and Jon actually meet in this episode.
“You just missed him, my lady.” Audience groans commence.
I am so happy to see someone bring this up. I had asked a few days ago on this forum is that were the two fighting but there were no replies so I thought I was alone and dropped it. Wheew, perhaps I’m not completely crazy ?
The way that scene was cut one can see easiely see Jorah’s face but the other is craftely hidden in every shot.,
So if it is Jorah and Daario – why? Did Jorah find something out about Daario? Was it Daario’s plan all along to eliminate Jorah (possibly also a reason Daario was so strong in refusing Tyrion to join them?)
The mind wanders…
Or, it isn’t Daario in which case the broQuest to find Daeny is undisturbed.
Welcome to WotW, you are in the right place. No wee chat box.
All I care about tonight is Theon’s and Yara’s scene. And whether Theon lives because if he doesn’t, my watch has ended.
And I doubt we will see Jon and Sansa meet.
Lulus Mum,
Methinks Cersei will give Olenna a choice: Marge walks, OR – her honor can be defended thru trial by combat: Loras vs Ser Gregor.
If Jon and Sansa don’t meet this episode it will be the equivalent of pulling a cliffhanger episode a la the Walking Dead Negan Season Finale.
https://twitter.com/GameOfThrones/status/731922121312493568
Maybe we’ll have Arya after all.
The actor that plays the young Rodrik Cassel indicated in his CV that he is in episode 5. So if there will be a Bran’s vision we might be back in Winterfell, Unless they do two of those next episode
Tim of House Deddings,
Hopefully more of Lyanna too, would like to see more of her before the rest of the Tower of Joy vision.
My thoughts on series 6 so far:
Red Woman:
I liked this episode, regarding it as an opener. We were reminded, of how every person was in a situation, when we saw them in series five.
The destruction of House Dorne is a logical continuity of the destruction of great (patriarchal) Houses in series before; even it was produced in not such a good manner. I think Dorne was represented in more quality back in series four with Oberyn and Ellaria, but the show should have go from this, from Oberyn, and what made him, what he is, like showing a flashback to his relations with his siblings and especially with Elia, that would have made an impact and a good background for Dorne. I just noticed the way Prince Trystane stabbed looked like his house emblem. And it was a continuity of the phrase: “All men must die, but women are not men!” and the general empowerment of women in GoT. Somehow the whole Dorne reminded of Spanish Men-Football; yes we know they are great, and you don’t want to hear every time, that FC Barcelona or Real Madrid is again the champion, but they are also boring as hell, in the way they play so overwhelming and the soul is lost, just look on a normal game day, all games are played on different times, this is not what makes a game day interesting and heartfelt.
Jorah and Daario were good together and we had finally a chance to see a talk between them, and proverbial all the question marks in my head were turning in exclamation marks, how the ring will be found. The Mereen scene was a little bit funny, not more.In the Arya-scene I liked how in one camera position, the Titan was directly behind her, as it was a reminder on what a way she’ll go. The Roose-Ramsay-Scene was pure chocolate to us how good scenes can be with just two actors involved. The Scene with Daenerys was an improvement to let influence bad US-American comedy shows on the conversations with the two Dothraki and with the new Khal (I mean shows in which you are always hearing recorded laughers on scenes, who are supposed to be funny, but they aren’t. I don’t like this sort of shows; I don’t like to be instructed to find a scene humourful.) I liked how Emilia Clarke portrayed the handing out of all her last cards in behind.
Now to one of my favourite scenes, Kingslanding, I admired the great acting skills of Lena Headey, when the ship arrived with her dead show-daughter. And I loved the scene between the twins, it was good that Cersei didn’t freaked out like on Joffreys death, it means she doesn’t let her emotions lead her in a quick-reaction and that she is glad to have Jaime back. And he does begin what I would call the Westerosi -Enlightenment with saying “Fuck Fate, Fuck Prophecy”.
The Sansa and Theon-run was very good, and it reminded in a way that a scene is composed as a “Gesamtkunstwerk” with the perfect use of the music. The Fight-Scene with Brienne was great, even it had some logically errors and the oath-scene was very moving and finally Sansa has one person, who’ll do nothing but protect her. Margaery in the cells reminded, that she is different from Cersei, beloved by the poorer people and keeping her to long away could upset the crowd.
Winterfell was fine, but I’m wondering, that Davos has such an interest in Jon, but maybe we’ll get a scene explaining his thoughts and intentions. Now the scene that has left the most impression on the screen: Melisandre revealing herself. For me it was a perfect example of an attack of (patriarchal) viewing settings. I’ve read a lot of awful commentaries of commenters, who watch the female-nude scenes with a hand in their pants. First, please don’t watch GoT like this; it’s a very disrespectful manner to watch Art, you wouldn’t do this in a theatre, in which you are also seeing Art. For me it was like a speech: “Yes, we’ll give you a nude scene, but you will regret it and you have to ask yourself what real beauty is.” I had a great respect for the elderly extra, who stepped in to do this scene. It reminded of an theatre-production I’ve seen a while in which an elderly background actor was sitting the whole play naked on a chair, and she was representing the knowledge and wisdom of our world and she gave with her presence a whole different point of view on the interpretation of the scenes.
A good comparison of an attack of viewer settings is the final scene in series five with Jon’s death, because the declaration “For the watch” could be also for our watch, that were the murderer of Jon, because we wouldn’t be satisfied without it.
Home:
Theon is returning home, Sansa is asking for Arya, which gets stabbed, and who has an opportunity to redeem her and to return with more strength in the house of Black and White.
Yaras talk with her father was wonderful and she does remind from the strong women of the show “The Vikings” in a special way. The scene between Balon and Euron had a feeling of the old western-films, in which a stand-out between two men are happening, I’ve head western music in my head with a big influence of very heavy rain. And I like that Pilou Asbaek is now in GoT , I liked his acting skills since I saw him in Borgen.
The first Winterfell-scene was beautiful, a lot of call-backs where included and Hodor can speak. And I’m glad Max von Sydow is acting the three-eyed-raven, I Saw him before in “The Tudors”, in which he potrayed the Pope, he was stunning. And Meeras scene was a pure panorama for me.
The Second Winterfell-scene was brutal, the first thing I thought in the stabbing-scene, that Roose murdered Ramsay, but when Roose fell to the ground. I’ll miss Michael McElhatton a lot; he portrayed Roose in such a fine manner. For me Roose was always a villain with a moral background and I’ll ask always myself what would have been different if Roose would have married Sansa, but I think this is Fanfiction-territory. The Walda-Baby-Ramsay scene was extremely brutal to watch, but I lied that Elizabeth Webster had her scene to play; often actresses with more weight have it difficult to have acceptance on screen. I’ll wonder if it has a consequence on the relationship Bolton-Frey, as we all know Walder Frey doesn’t like to be betrayed.
The Dragonscene in Mereen was wonderful and you can see how different cultural backgrounds are clashing together: Tyrion-Varys-Grey Worm/Missandei.
Now Kingslanding, I’m sorry, but I ship Cersei/Jaime feat Tyrells vs. High Sparrow. So this was very great for me. The Mountain smashing the drunken man on the wall was a pure demonstration of force. The next scene in which Cersei is forbidden to attend her daughter’s funeral was an improvement to that I mentioned previous she is more careful and she knows, she has to accept the situation and that violence against her own men is not a solution. Jaime talking with Tommen was a reminder to us, that Jaime has accepted now his fatherhood to his only child left. The talk with Jaime and High sparrow was a little bit like cats going around each other to have a first image, what the other is capable of. And I decoded the phrases: “I fear the mother, the father and the warrior” clearly in: Mother is Cersei, Father is Jaime and Warrior is the Mountain. And yes the high sparrow also reminds of Pope Francis and of the new Left-party-movement, which can be seen in different countries. Next, I loved the scene with Cersei and Tommen, yes I cried. And Tommen is really different from Joffrey, I would have been sure, what she would have slapped and yelled at him. It’s almost like when Joffrey was alive, the two were antagonists of their levelling up of verbal cruelty, and now that Joffrey is dead she has no more a child, who’s pushing her to her limits. Tommen’s loveliness is now affecting her. But I have a question with her hair, didn’t they have wigs in Westeros, so she could wear one?
Now Castle Back, the return of the wildlings were for me a little bit of TV-magic, but I liked, that not so much fights were acting out, I was glad that it went down so quickly. The Davos-Melisandre was touching, but it was a little bit awkward that Davos cares so much and knows about resurrection, unless he sneaked out in Sam’s Library and read about it. But he eventually said also the famous words “Fuck the Goods, fuck them all”, what is a sign for the westerosi- Enlightenment going on. The resurrection was for me powerful in his simplify and more natural way. And the camera-positioning and the directing were a powerful work. And I gasped in the same moment as Jon and the music afterwards in the credits was pure icing on the end-scene.
Oathbreaker:
I’ll begin with Essos.
Varys was good in the scene with the prostitute, and it showed me that he is the real Power player now, and Tyrion is just old-Tyrion, I didn’t liked the scene with trying to play with Missandei/Grey Worm, he’s falling back in his character development, in series five he begun to questioning himself with the dark star on his sky, that is killing his father and Shae and now? He tries what he was always tries. One thing, I liked about scene was the use of coloured light, it was all very green, when Daenerys was there, the light was clearer. Arya in training was good, and it was a great Idea to show this in a montage, so it had more speed in it. The mentioning of all the names characters left some question and exclamation marks. And she was finally getting her eyesight back. Daenerys arriving in Vaes Dothrak was good, and I’m looking forward to meet the other widows. And Daenerys is the first oathbreaker, with not following the dothraki traditions. Daenerys history arch does remind a lot of Kriemhild, who’s marrying Etzel. If anyone is familiar with the Nordic and German sagas, you can find a lot of them in GoT.
The second breaker is Sam, who breaks his oath to Gilly to not leave her and his “Son”. I’m looking forward to meet the Tarlys and to see James Faulkner, he was great in Downton Abbey. Castle Back left some controversy in me, even though I know Alliser and Olly had to die, to have the obligatory three deaths in one episode. I would have it liked it more, if Jon would have be thoughtful and that he concluded that death could be no more a penalty to breakers, because he knows that’s awaiting them in death. It reminded me, that I’m lucky to live in a democracy in which death penalty is history and that some democratic countries have a long way to rethink their penalties, yes I’m looking to you USA. His new hairstyle reminded a little bit of Robbs hairstyle, a hint? The fourth breaker is young Umber with betraying the Starks and bringing Ramsay Rickon. And the westerosi- Enlightenment goes on with the young Umbers words: “Fuck the old way, fuck the traditions”.
Now the ToJ, it was a really good scene, even I have to admit I have not the fully book-background to it, because I’m actually in reading process. And again a personification of the viewer in Bran was once again happening on screen, it was wonderful, because like Bran we want to know that’s really obvious in the Tower. The young Ned-actor did a good impression, and the maybe influence of Bran into the past does remind a lot of time-travel-films.
Now to Kingslanding, my favourite place in Westeros. Qyburn acquiring the children was good, and it left a connecting to the drunken man in Home, one of the kid is talking about how is father is missing, so I think, the drunken man was the father of this child. Then I loved the interaction between the Mountain and Jaime, I love how slowly and with more preparation Cersei is reinforcing herself. The counsel-scene was a good pointing out, which parties in KL have to work together to overcome their shared enemy. The entrance with Cersei and Jaime was brilliant; I love how they show now their pair-strength, they remind me more of the most famous Twincest-Couple before GoT, Siegmund and Sieglinde in Richard Wagners Valkyrie. (I see a lot of the similarities between the Ring of the Nibelungs and Got) The scene with High Sparrow and the Tommen could have different outcomes, I think personally that Tommen realised that he has to play the game, even it means that he has to work “against” his mother to help her.
I meant Jon goes to WF and when he is there he will negotiate with Ramsay or something and then will Ramsay say this line. I really don’t believe at all that Ramsay will go to CB.
Jon would never march on Winterfell unless he’s got a good reason to. He seems lost, confused and without a purpose. That plus literally it there was any twist it would’ve already happened. I wouldn’t be surpised if Sansa arriving at Castle Black is the very first scene of this episode. Usually where we ended previous episode, we start the next episode.
Really? Your decision to watch the series is based solely on Theon/Reek? Huh.
I can’t come up with a reason why he would die in this episode. We know he gets to Pike and meets with Yara safely. I don’t think there’s a sole on the islands that would be threatened enough to kill him. The Kingsmoot certainly isn’t going result in the people voting for a timid, beaten-down eunuch as their new king.
Violencersei,
Um, carpal tunnel much? 😛
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3591617/Cage-thrones-Clever-Photoshopper-imagines-look-like-Nicolas-Cage-played-character-TV-s-Game-Thrones.html
sellsword_23,
maybe Dany’s Drogon, Ser Jorah & Daario show up to free her, but instead she gets the Dothraki to help her.
Jorah is
Maybe Yara will keep him as advisor cos of the knowledge he got of Westerosis from his time under Ned and Robb, Iron Islands being away from inland Westeros his knowledge could be handy.
If/when Yara ends up in Essos, she could drop Theon off with the Unsullied, and they can have therapy sessions together; Unsullied can teach him how to cope in life as a eunuch.
1) The journey to the Wall takes weeks. She has plenty of time to think clearly.
2) Why would Brienne and Podrick not think Ramsay would expect her to go there? When they were debating where Sansa might have gone in episode 405, the Wall was literally the first thing they thought of; it they knew about it, logical to assume he would.
please tell me we get the rest of the tower of joy tonight I think it might kill me if we don’t
When the hell is Bronn going to show up? My favorite character.
Clob,
Clob,
It’s that my heart and mind would need a long, long break before I could go on. I just can’t bear the thought of more horrible things happening to this character because I feel so damn sorry for him that it nearly hurts. And can you get 6 seasons into a show without getting a favorite character? I can’t.
Wimsey,
I can’t see Osha leaving Rickon, unless it’s the only way she can save him. I can see Ramsay turning them loose in the forest so he & his hounds can chase them, but they get away.Just don’t know what to think. I hope Ramsay doesn’t kill Rickon. But I don’t hold out much hope.
I really don’t see why they would give Jorah greyscale only to kill him off before he can bring the disease to Westeros. He probably won’t survive the whole series, but he is almost certainly going with Dany to Westeros. Maybe Daario will try to kill him, but I don’t think he’d succeed.
That knife what Ramsay using to eat an apple is look bloody in the second trailer.
http://i.imgur.com/M9vMjEE.jpg
Violencersei,
I hate to ask you to elaborate on your already giant post (your hands must hurt already), but where do you see the similarities between the Ring and ASoIaF? I’ve never heard those two compared before and I can only think of some general themes (incest, violence, betrayal, epic saga) the two have in common. Did you have anything more specific in mind, especially as it relates to characters?
I think that kinda confirms
I’m worried about Rick on being left with a child predator and a serial killer!!
Check out redteam reviews latest video covering sam&gilly. He drops it like it’s hot
oh god..
What the fuck is a Lommy?,
Maybe he’s flaying Roose’s corpse. Making himself a nice new cloak.
Not sure what to expect from this episode, but I’m sure it will be excellent nevertheless.
Looking forward to a Jon and Sansa reunion. It’s been a looong time!
Maester of Ceremonies,
Groans would be the least of it. I would choose violence…
(Hi! First time poster here…)
Sue and other moderators sorry for not covering my last comment with spoilers code I just assumed it was my own speculation.
I can totally see that happening.. or flaying Shaggydog head.. in front of Rickon, that would be too much jesus f*ck lol.
Tyler Pifer,
I know!
Ramsay will do it with Osha, but not Rickon: he likes hunting girls. However, he’s never hunted a Wildling before, and Osha might prove to be much more able that he is expecting.
It might not happen: but it is one of many possibilities.
There are 13-14 episodes left after this season. They have to tie up the threads that have hung over the series since Season 1, particularly the Wars of the Umpteen Kings and the War of the Pseudogods. There will not be a greyscale epidemic in Westeros. Besides, wouldn’t that be a very arbitrary turn of events?
Sansa had not seemed to come to her senses entirely when we last saw her. Shock can last for more than a couple of weeks, after all.
Brienne and Podrick might not know the entire background behind why Sansa thinks the Wall is a haven. Again, it could be a case where none of them know enough about the Wall to realize that this would not be a safe-haven if Ramsay pursues them there. The Wall and the Watch seems to be something about which southerners are too familiar, and pre-War Sansa was not the type to concern herself with such things.
Summary on my TV (little different)-
“Tyrion makes a deal while stalling for Danaerys return; Theon tries to make amends for the past; Jorah and Daario realize their next move won’t be an easy one; Cersei discusses Margery’s future with Olenna.”
My husband swore he wouldn’t watch this season ( a man is a book fan). Finally got him to watch the first 3 episodes. Now we can watch this 4th one together. So stoked!
Aryamad,
I love Jon and I like Sansa, but for godsakes! They aren’t some silly couple to take on such a silly name.
Conan Troutman,
Nope, I’ve wrote it this week in a Word-Document in little steps and copied it over here, so my hand is fine. 🙂
Yes I see character similarities.
The possibility of Jon and Daenerys ending in a couple reminds of Siegfried and Brünnhilde of being nephew/aunt.
The fire-funeral of Siegfried at the end of twilight of the gods and Brünnhilde stepping into it-Daenerys stepping into her husbands-funeral.
The situation with Siegmund, Sieglinde and Hunding does remind me of Jaime/Cersei/Robert. Hunding does represent the same patriarchal stereotype like Robert Baratheon. And Siegmund is also hero, who hates to be a hero, because it brings a lot of pain whit it, a little bit like Jaime. Sieglinde loves also very much her child like Cersei does, but nothing more connects them two.
Freia does remind me of Sansa in way. Loge of Varys and Littlefinger. Hagen in way of Tyrion. Siegfried is a micture of Joffrey, Tommen and Jon Snow. Gutrune of Margarey.
And that in GoT most people want is the Throne, who is the power and in the Ring, who is the power is the Ring, but every wearer of the him does inflict a ( his own) death, what you can see likewise in GoT, the five kings wanted power and now they are dead.
And Fafner turned himself in some sort of dragon.
newbietothegame,
I will not allow it
Will we see Mycroft Holmes – I mean Tycho Nestoris – this season? Tyrion could ‘strike a deal with Braavos’ to control the money flow of the slavers, since they are both anti-slavery.
Excited! Fingers crossed for Stark reunion!
What the fuck is a Lommy?,
sweet summer childs
My prediction: Episode will end with Jon receiving the Pink Letter (which could be interpreted as a book of the Stranger, psychopath Ramsay), as well.
The letter read by Jon will be narrated by Ramsay, just like Littlefinger’s “Chaos is a laddah” speech (Winterfell is mine, etc.). And like that montage back in S3 with dead Ros and Joffrey’s crossbow, we will see Ramsay eating an apple from the knife which he used… to flay Osha.
*credits roll
His actor said he’s not in this season.
aabe,
IIRC, Mark Gatiss confirmed that
Brienne would only go for that if Tormund agreed to be a stay-at-home Dad while she rides around the Seven Kingdoms setting wrongs aright, but…yes, bring it on!
Can’t believe how hyped everyone, including me, is getting over this silly Tormienne ship based on one photo. : D
Wimsey,
But why would they give Jorah greyscale if it’s not meant to go anywhere. They’re clearly leaving out the “Griff and Young Griff” subplot, so why take one element from that plot and incorporate it into the show if it weren’t in some way important, especially since they keep stressing that he has it? Why bother giving Shereen the greyscale for that matter? Why have Gilly discuss it with her so we learn about how much wildlings fear it. It just makes no sense.
Pigeon,
Mine would be Arya and Jon …”different roads sometimes lead to the same castle”
This is why I’m excited for it, too. Not to say, I’m not excited for any and all Stark reunions but I’m especially curious about this dynamic because we haven’t seen them interact on the show at all. It’s entirely new in a way and that’s something for a show in its 6th season. And, ngl, this being a precursor to a potential taking back of Winterfell just sweetens the pot. I might literally cry if we have another almost-reunion for the Starks.
I’m ready for the Yara (Asha)/Theon reunion too, but I feel like that one might make me more sad than joyous.
I am so worried about this episode. I don’t think I can handle a Stark being tortured and murdered by Ramsay Bolton but after last week, it sure looks like that is exactly what might happen. Hold me.
Why did this clip make me think of ‘Sleepless in Seattle’?
“Your father [perish the thought] Ramsay could peel anyone who displeased him in one long, curly strip…”
Nearly an hour and a half to go!!!!! Waiting up until 2am UK time again but it is sooooo worth the tiredness in work tomorrow being able to avoid spoilers! Going to pass the next couple of hours with 2 eps of GOT
It worked 🙂
I agree that Jon and Sansa will meet tonight. Why would Tormeund stay @ CB if Jon left? I think Sansa is going to give Jon the reason to take Winterfell back. They’ll split up afterwards but def. meet today! They have to or I’ll cry.
I’m a little worried about Ramsey -_- someone posted a gif of him eating an apple with a knife? In the trailer he was cleaning blood off a knife in the very same room. Which I think was Bran’s old room. I do not like 🙁
One of my favorite things about the possible Jonsa reunion is how they were not close to eachother really. I want to see how emotional and relieved they both are when they finally see eachother after all they have been through and losing their family despite not being that close with eachother before
weirwoodtreehugger,
Thank you. My thoughts exactly.
George,
I think its about people reuniting, with people and family members they haven’t seen in along time. But everyone has changed because of what they have gone through. Strangers
George,
Violencersei,
Those are some fascinating parallels, indeed. I don’t know all the details, maybe I should delve a bit deeper into it (really not an opera fan, though I like some of Wagner’s bits).
I doubt Ramsay kills Rickon this episode. I know that Ramsay is insane, but even he’s got to realize that Sansa/Jon are coming for him, and that Rickon is a valuable hostage.
Wimsey,
Greyscale desease will be the last treason of jorah. I bet someone importante is going to get infected and everybody is going to be like ” how is that possible?” and then someone points to a very gulty looking jorah and danny kills him (orders someone to do it).
Sansa is being pursued, didn t prepare anything for a journey in the middle of winter, and doesn t know wich nothern lords would protect her. Which place could be better to go than the Wall? nobody on their right mind would attack the Wall and the worst that can happen is jon giving them provisions and sending them on their way because the watch doesn t get involved in those affairs…
I’m hearing that in a dry Vermont accent. Old joke about what rural Vermonters tell leap-peepers up from the City when they ask when and where to find peak autumn foliage: ‘You just missed it. It peaked here 15 minutes ago.’
Firannion,
as long as jon is in front of a weirdwoodtree asking for direction and why he is back i don t mind them don t reuniting this ep.
I wander if we’ll see a debut of The Man Bun That Was Promised this episode.
WildlingKing,
Bookwankas????? So needlessly insulting….
Yes, me too – I didn’t read that quite right. Missed my Sunday nap. LOL. Ah the look on Arya’s face when she debated giving up Needle….
Needle was Robb and Bran and Rickon, her mother and her father, even Sansa. Needle was Winterfell’s grey walls, and the laughter of its people. Needle was the summer snows, Old Nan’s stories, the heart tree with its red leaves and scary face, the warm earthy smell of the glass gardens, the sound of the north wind rattling the shutters of her room. Needle was Jon Snow’s smile. He used to mess my hair and call me “little sister,” she remembered, and suddenly there were tears in her eyes.
House Stackhouse,
You must have missed the thread all about the silly names. Not my creation. 🙂
I. Need. Jansa.
Hi all from China! Don’t know when I’ll be watching this episode I hope tonight! It’s 8am in China and I’m heading to do the work in here to do. But hope to be able to watch it tonight
I JUST NEED A STARK REUNION PLEASE
Here is what I have been thinking for a while, If Sansa and company get to CB that would be a very interesting moment between Davos and Brie, I mean she did kill Stanis.
deb,
Very good analysis. I totally agree
Longer runtime than the first three episodes. This will be fun~
I mainly hope for a stark reunion. If not in this episode, at least sometime this season.
45 mins left guys!
Its almost time!!!!
Okay my thoughts about tonight are all over the place.
The Stranger of course just makes everyone think about death. All guesses based on speculation and the preview video and my own wild hopes and fears…
In KL
-Cersei is going to get closer to choosing violence (if not have at least one sparrow killed quietly and shoved in a closet), Marg is going to make a strategic decision that could be dangerous for Loras, Olenna will be given a bad option. Will the birds get stabby tonight on Kevan, Pycelle or Qyburn? We don’t know.
In CB
-Jon has not left the building…but is the door opening for Sansa the Castle Black door? 98% yes. 2% it’s Deepwood Motte (that Yara just talked about losing last episode) on the way to Mormonts or the Mormonts themselves. I’m hoping for a big meet up though. I want Team White As Snow–someone else called them Starkvengers lol-Brienne, Pod, Davos, Tormund, Jon. And a Jon and Sansa reunion of course! (Though I admit I’m most looking forward to Jon and Arya)
I think they film Pink letter so you know what it says in Ramsays voice. I don’t know if he’d show up because there would definitely be a fight, and they aren’t doing that yet. I think Tormund would absolutely take a second look at Brienne, which would be really good for her self esteem even though I’m still hoping for a particular reunion. (Braime forever)
In Vale
LF gets one scene convincing moon boy to take his army to Winterfell. I honestly have no idea how this will go, but its LF. Will someone be “poisoned by their enemies” for disagreeing? We don’t know.
In Wherever Jorah and Daario are
-I think Daario is destined to be a traitor. I know, he’s cute, but I can’t help my gut feeling. I think they fight some Dothraki and somehow, someway D temporarily takes Jorah out of the game. Maybe not this episode but soon. I do not, however, think Jorah is going to die this season. His arc is important and very tied up to Dany’s, plus the greyscale practically guarantees he’ll go out in a blaze of glory to save her-somehow. Some Dothraki are going to die.
In Riverlands- (2 hooded presumed dead characters…this could be a great time to put one or both of them back in the game-title wise.) This would also be a great time to see Gendry again! *crickets* Or maybe not…
In Iron Islands- Yara and Theon fight-but Yara is smart and she could use him to help with Kingsmoot issue-Balon’s “son” etc-especially once she sees Euron (who I hope we see)
In Mereen
-An obvious battle of wits…will there be dragon assistance? We don’t know. But based on all those wine glasses in pics, there will be drinking games. Will they discover the leader of the harpies? Find out about Daario’s part? I have no idea.
In Braavos
-if we see Arya, she’ll be given an assignment and learn something exciting.
In Winterfell
-Everyone showing pics of that dagger is freaking me out, but I feel good about my belief that Rickon is not dying this episode. However, I noticed something that several people seemed to notice too this week about Arya’s fight scene-so watch out for one of Rickon’s legs to be injured or removed (maybe so he won’t run away like Reek?) Osha is crazy enough to become Ramsay’s new bed warmer to stay alive. Would not be the first time, and he’d probably find her interesting. Yes-I’m wishing horrible things on them in the hopes that they stay alive. I’m that desperate.
In Vaes Dothrak. I keep watching the preview and seeing her standing between those braziers and all I can think is, “She is going to set that place on fire”. So I’ll go with that. Maybe Drogon shadow in trailer is a distraction-and he’ll be flying over all those Dothraki who are following Dany back to Mereen…maybe?
In the tree
-We may not see Bran this episode, though I don’t know. He has to learn EVERYTHING. He could see things that don’t relate to him personally-quick vision montage for us history buffs and be ticked he still doesn’t know what’s in the tower. Or we could see the tower. I love the visions, so I would be okay with anything.
I think that’s it. I hope I’m right about a few of these things. Kind of nervous about tonight’s episode tbh. (Rickon anxiety)
I’m not overly excited about Jon/Sansa reunion, as Sansa doesn’t really like Jon, she always seemed to follow in her mother’s footsteps and was almost embarrassed by having a bastard brother, and was usually quite vocal about it. But I’m hoping after everything she’s been through, she’ll be happy to see a familiar family face, and her heart will have softened towards Jon….
I’m very much hoping we will get a version of the pink letter, but we’ll see, I’m also hoping for some Dragon action and I suspect we might see the N K tonight so maybe we will see a bit of Bran..
Also i want them to get a wriggle on with Sam’s storyline, he still has to drop Gilly off at Hornhill before making his way to The Citadel, which I’m very excited to see….
Not long to go now #veryexcited ????????
Dee,
Are you going to swing by yi ti while you are there?
RG,
If we get the Battle of wits with slavers that would or at least i hope mean the siege begins tonight which would be cool to see how Tyrion handles it. But if it happens it has to be in the EP where Dany wins over the horde or at least the EP before she does. I really am tired of her boring story line and want to see her get back to Bad Ass Dany, Hell a little walking out of flame with fire proof Bra and Panties if need be but get her moving Winter is Coming.
30 minutes.
I want a Stark renuion.
Vasud,
What’s that??
JON AND SANSA BETTER RUN INTO EACH OTHER TONIGHT OR I WILL FREAKING SCREAM SO LOUD MY LUNGS WILL BURST.
It is a place in the far East in Essos. I think it is an island near Qarth.
No one is asking the critical question: In which episode will Tyrion have his 12-Step moment and pour the wine back into the carafe, as seen in one of the early-released photos? How serious does the situation have to get before he realizes that he needs to keep his wits about him?
She has done it twice before at Winterfell, with good results both times. And the point has been made repeatedly (at least in the books) that human bites fester and cause gangrene…
Dee,
Dumb joke
Have a nice trip…big episode!
The Sybian,
I recognize that curly-nosed deity! Do they revere Chaac in Planetos? There’s a sea god, but I can’t recall hearing of a rain god. The Red Waste could certainly use one.
Dee,
Glad you’ve found a way to watch!!!
I didn’t know it was a joke and I actually answered the question. I am an idiot.
Flayed Potatoes,
The Chosen Bun
Angela,
ha, nah all good
almost time!
Firannion,
Doesn’t Tyrion need to have a few hallucinations first? Maybe they’ll work that in tonight.
I’m hoping for a Euron sighting, although with Theon and his sister reunion, they may hold off on Euron. I’m anxious to see how crazy they are going to make him.
I think that Daario will notice the greyscale and once Daeny is safe, he’ll ask Daario to take him out of the game rather than turn into a stoneman.
It is okay. Yes it almost time.
^ This. I can relate! 15 more minutes. Enjoy, everyone! 🙂
Good point: at least one hallucination that we have reason to anticipate, per shooting spoilers.
10 minutes people.
I think he’s there, I looked very closely at the Ed picture, there’s a person with a Navy bluish l/sleeve top with a touch of brown sleeveless top, which could be what Ned was wearing, eg it could be Stark Uniform, eg it could be Jon next to him so his watch may have ended but he is still at the Wall with the Wildlings (wearing the clothing he arrived in with Uncle Benjen and Tyrion waaaaaaaaay back in early season 1)
Has anyone suggested the bran = nights king theory yet??
He’s mad about what happens at ToJ and that’s why such hate for Jon snow, the stare down at hardhome, etc
8 minutes!
May we be blessed with Man Buns, Jonsas, Toriennes, and Starkvengers! Thank you, Ralloo fire god amen!
HYPPPEEEEE!!!
Flayed Potatoes,
Who would that be!
Buckle up buttercups and enjoy – see you after the show 😀
Enjoy the trip, even though it is for work. I hope you will able to watch it later.
It’s here!
KIT IN THE OPENING CREDITS!
Flayed Potatoes,
Damn straight he is!!!
JON IN STARK ARMOR
Man-bun! OMG Company at the wall!
Yes!!!!!
To everyone in the other thread who said I was wrong that the door Sansa came through and I said it was absolutely castle black…. :P!! lol told you it was 🙂 .. I recognized that wood pattern.. and now we get the reunion we wanted!!
omg. its happening! Jansa!
It’s happening!!!!!!
IT’S HAPPENING!!!!!!
SANSA AND JON ARE MEETING EACH OTHER!!!!!
EPIC
Jansa reunion!
Lol at Tormunds face when he sees Brienne
I’M CRYING!!!! I CAN BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE TWO STAKS
And Sansa is taking the iniciative to retake Winterfel…
I’m dreaming right???
Is Robin taller than LF?
Oh wow that Brienne/Mel/Davos scene
And now LF and SR at the Vale
Um, where are Royce’s own men? They’re in his castle.
Seven years?
Jorah the Explorer is back!!!
This episode is fire so far!
I know, right? I was asking that, too. Scratching my head.
Yeah, same, like what? Anyways, good episode so far.
That was Dany’s big moment?
Jack Bauer 24,
Dude, it hasnt happened yet, lol.
Book of the Stranger!
I hope we get more scenes at the Wall. This can’t be all.
Flayed Potatoes,
Same, that moment was beautiful, i wonder if Jon will tell her about the White Walkers?
Finally Ser Loras!
Go back to the wall!!!! This is boring!!!
Flayed Potatoes,
This is all for this ep
These people in KL are sitting there twaddling their fingers, when they have an army to storm the sept and dungeons. Hurry up, please!
Lol! The KL is boring me, too. I want to go back to the Wall and the Vaes Dothraki.
Go back to the wall for fuck sakes!!! Or give us Bran! Damn i wish he was in this episode…
I wish Pycell would break a hip.
Louis,
I agree.
Icekhione,
Where did you get this information?
Kings Landing right now: zZzzzzZZZZZzzZzzzz
Move to the Ironborn scene!
They also have a city full of folks who like the High Sparrow.
Connor,
Me too. Save us, Bran! Save us, Jonsa!
Oh shit! Is something happening in Kings Landing now!?!?
Brother-sister reunions! Stark, Tyrell, Greyjoy!
Hawk,
Kill them all and hurry up the plot. lol
give us a civil war in Kings landing, yeeeesssss!
Everyone is fighting! Stop fighting!
KL got a lot of time.
Theon man up ffs!
Not this flaying bitch! No! Move! Next scene please!
NOOOOOO!!
Why did they have a Sansa scene so early? I didn’t need a bathroom break yet. Yeesh.
Osha! 🙁
Just started watching.
Within seconds, jaw dropped then tears of joy.
Yaaaasss!
Also the face Giantsbane give Big B is everything!
No Euron?
Tonks 🙁
Told you she was a goner.
D:
RIP Osha 🙁
Flayed Potatoes,
So, no spoilers in open chat until after the 9pm PST airing doesn’t mean anything? :/
Osha 🙁
WALL!!! OMG!!!
I don’t need this Essos thing right now. Take me back to the Wall HBO!
Lyanna_Targaryen,
I didn’t know. I’m sorry. Everyone is spoiling though, so I didn’t think there was a rule in an open chat while the episode is airing.
Lyanna_Targaryen,
What do you realistically expect to happen? Check out the 3 previous open chats during the EDT airing. All sorts of spoilers.
Edit: btw its 9 EDT not PDT. “Spoiler coding is still required in this Open Chat post prior to the episode’s official airing (9PM EDT tonight for Season 6 Episode 4). We ask that fans use consideration for your fellow viewers, and cover and label your spoilers appropriately. Thank you!”
Brienne and Tromund OTP for lyfe!!
Pink letter!
The way Tormund was looking at Brienne ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
That letter made me pissed!
The Unburned!
WHAT!?
Lmaooo this is a terrible ending hahahahahahahaha
lol of course
Connor,
Same. I was hyperventilating. It was so intense! I need to rewatch the scene.
So Khal Moro dies, just like that? That was a waste.
Unbelievable! How freaking awesome! Loved it. Can’t wait to read everyone’s thoughts!
Torienne is for real!
Some of the cheesiest shit I’ve ever seen
That was such a hammy ending. I noticed that wonky fire CGI though lol.
Gosh that scene with Tormund and Brienne was hilarious, and look at Edd face!! LMAO
Hmmmmmm…….
Ok, so is Jon going to be in episode 5? This is my burning question. Did he agree to come with Sansa??? Where is Sansa going?
I am so confused lmao.
I needed more Jansa!!!!!
The Unburnt! Reborn amidst salt and smoke!
Rolling my eyes into the next galaxy over Ramsay “Mary Sue” Bolton and super successful plans
All Khals dead like that? What a shame. It looked badass tho.
He nodded his head so yeah, he agreed.
KHALEESI IS BACK!!!!!
Episode 5 preview, shows Bran in a WHITE WALKER VISION!!!!!!
Neither did I .. and it honestly doesn’t make much sense to me since it’s OPEN chat about the episode currently airing.. had no clue .. people, in my mind, should know better to come into open chat about the current episode 🙂 just my opinion I guess
4>3>2>1
Never mind… Best episode ever!
Well that ending completely against canon.
Hmmm… had to kept adjusting to life without the books but wow… just Wow
It is getting better and better!!!
NK next episode!
No ToJ then.
Great episode.
The Dany finale was a little cheesy but overall it worked. I just wonder if those were Emilia’s real boobs or just her face CGI’d into the body…
Only cuz I know she doesn’t want to do nudes anymore…
Fuck yeaaah that was awesome!!!!
May Ramsay be flayed for a thousand lives for slaying Osha. Nooooooooooo!
(yeah…we saw it coming…but…)
Nice Pink Letter!
I’m biased I know I am I’m biased toward the northern storyline but this has been the worst episode of the 4 so far.
He shook his head yes.
Jon Snow needs to create his small council ASAP….
Davos, Tormund, Brienne, Mel, Sansa, Ed…. Time to come up with a plan to for Winterfell….
What a great episode.
Jack Bauer 24,
We need it now!!!
Great episode! I think I am gonna watch that Sansa and Jon hug over and over again. Mad about Osha though!
Dany saved herself what a big fu for all the people who insist to say she’s not smart enough and needs to be saved everytime
Agreed. Hated the ending. Can’t stand freaking Fireproof TV Dany.
All the Jon with Sansa scenes I was holding back my tears.
It’s been what, 5 years since they seen each other and they both been through so much.
That pink letter TV show version was good too, again made me teary eyed. I hope Jon bashes Ramsay’s head in.
That ending lol wtf
Connor,
What? How the fuck did he get to the Wall? How did he know she was there? Why wouldn’t Royce be gathering the Valemen to arrest his ass once he came back? Guh.
Havent read any comments, but just finished watching this episode. Wow, just wow! Sansa, Margery, Dany, Theons sister (brain fail) all taking charge!!!!!!!
The Pink Letter!!!!
The Vale (tho I don’t thinik much of Robin)
Lots about making peace with our enemies here, as well as Sisters and Brothers reuniting. Not sure about Mereen, but rest of episode wonderfull
HOLY FUCKING SHIT THAT IS MORE THAN I EVER EXPECTED FROM DAENERYS AND THE DOTHRAKI AND I’VE BEEN MULLING OVER THE POSSIBILITIES IN MY HEAD FOR TWO YEARS
You are complaining about this episode? Really? It was awesome….
EPIC!!!
Bloodraven = nightking
F*yeahh that was awesome! don’t really have coherent thoughs right now
does dany have to pass threw the fire in every episode to make her interesting? ok we know that she is a conqueror but what about humility and being a ruler? the last scene was just a reboot of season 1…
Once again Dany’s clothes burn but not her hair…
Jansa 2016 LIVES!!!
Almost nothing else mattered, well except for the cheese aka Petyr “LittleFinger” and we get more of him next week.
Why is Sansa with Brienne and LF again? How the hell did Littlefinger made it to the North that quickly?
Louis,
Bullshit! Is what I say
This made me LOL…..#truth
Oh man this episode. It just kind of caps off a disappointing first 4 episodes for me.
The King’s Landing stuff has just been meh, I hate the High Sparrow and his stupid cliche speeches. He’s the worst antagonist ever, I only hate him because he’s such a bore.
Osha’s death was lame, saw it coming a mile away. She was a good character too, wish she had gotten some more time before dying.
Tyrion’s plan is just kind of wha? Unless he has some trick of his sleeve, it’s just bleh.
I didn’t see Khal Moro dying coming. Not sure what to think of Jorah and Daario busting into Vaes Dothrok, and finding the Khaleesi so quickly, then being able to plot this scheme which worked out so perfectly (including Jorah and Daario being able to kill some guards and lock the door).
The Night’s Watch and Vale stuff was fine.
Overall though I’ve just been disappointed in this season :`(
Now we’ll have endless discussions where people will try to point out how Targaryens aren’t immune to fire when we all know Dany IS immune to fire in the show.
No Drogon next episode?
Tonight’s episode slayed, literally and figuratively.
I liked the episode.
Overall this was another great episode.
The emotional intensity of seeing Jon and Sansa together alone was enough to put it in my top 10.
I agree the Dany ending was a little bit cheesy but I like it nonetheless. She used her brain and her own powers to win over the Dothraki. Nothing wrong with that.
Great episode, loved it, have to watch it a few times =)
I think Tormund flirting Brienne and the Osha-Ramsey flirt was one of the most funny scenes! But what a shame that Osha died so soon!!!
Well. That was….an episode. I’m disappointed, but glad some of you loved it! Bottom of my list this season.
The Bastard,
Glad you enjoyed I didn’t it was boring and the ending sucked.
I have not read spoilers at all….
So my guess is that The Umbers turn for Jon Snow. Jon has The Wildlings, Vale, Night’s Watch, and will probably get a few Northern Houses to his cause. Bear Island was set up last year as being loyal to The Starks.
Which means The Boltons and Karstarks are going extinct this season.
Ending was a little cheesy but the episode and the idea behind the ending is sound.
They just dragged out the ending longer than required.
Boring? Now you are just trolling. Good luck with that.
I’m usually a defender of the tv show… but god i hated this episode.
The only thing that i loved was Sansa and Jon and the Pink letter… King’s landing stuff was ok.
Osha… well. Couldn’t really expect more, yet I love Natalia Tena and she deserves better than that awful storyline.
But jesus christ that Dany ending was beyond ridiculous.
It was a great episode. But, does the show have to kill at least one great character every episode??? Osha. Why do the good-hearted ones keep on dying and the monsters keep on winning? (I’m now sounding like my friends who stopped watching this show 2 seasons ago.)
This will always be one of my favorite scenes on this show:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVlRkEqI2T0
“Keep this one safe. He means the world to me.” Aww. Osha!
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Adieu and goodbye. Safe journey too!
Wow, really? People are complaining? That was one of the most epic endings ever and people are seriously unhappy about it? You guys really need to (a) watch another show or (b) go to westeros.org – I mean honestly…
That final moment was a game changer. Dany’s been a ruler, but *now* she’s a queen. Absolutely epic.
Okay, she can’t be burned and the big strong Khals can’t break down wooden doors. Now, get your ass to Westeros, Khaleesi.
I’m not sure anyone predicted Jon would turn soft and turn his back on the fight against the Others once resurrected. Wow, I hope this is just a phase.
Brienne needs to back the fuck off from Davos. Now that she saved Sansa she needs to go save Jaime from being Cersei’s underling.
Poor Theon. He really has nothing to give. He can’t be a king. So I can see him wanting to help his sister.
Ramsay Sue can’t die soon enough.
The final scene felt rushed tbh. And a bit cheesy. And I am a big Dany fan. They could have made it look better.
Bran in the next episode though….. OMG!
I wonder when we are getting ToJ again. Hurry up, Bloodraven!
How did Littlefinger teleport again in the preview? Will Jon be with Sansa? Nothing makes sense anymore lmao.
The Bastard,
Not trolling some agree with me some don’t get over it.
SNAP, SNAP, DAAAAM!! KHALEESI
Look for Jon in every episode this season.. he’s the TPTWP.. awesome episode.. I don’t have time to get on here much but wanted to just say that was just eff’in amazing. Thanks Ginerva for sharing the episode on Skype.. it was really great fun to watch it with a fellow WoTW poster.. just LOVED this episode…. nite all!
Lol people still watch this show and say ” Im disappointed” , what do u even bother watching it for?
Sansa seems to have more balls than ressurrected Jon Snow.
It was a bit like Jon’s resurrection. Underwhelming but not bad or ridiculous. Much better option than Drogon deus ex-machina.
Do you really, truly want that? Seriously? It’s fine for the written word and not commented much about afterward. For the show do we want a bald Daenerys walking around? When we’re talking about a body that doesn’t burn it’s not much of a stretch to include hair.
——–
I also don’t give a shit about “she isn’t fire-proof” in the books either. This is suppose to be scifi-fantasy and this way is way cooler.
Bit sad about a Winterfell based scene….
Not surprised though, they don’t know how to work with them so they are writing them out in effect…
Some of my theories have been wrong but seems Rickon as fArya is correct, of course Ramsay is acting like a Mad Dog etc etc and he made what would have been a hard bargain for Jon in getting Wildlings to fight for his cause an instant 2k army.
Enjoyed Yara/Theon
Can see it now, people will be irritated over Sansa not being an action hero but her character is about exploring the power to influence others from behind the scenes after her mother etc, LF her mentor did the same thing in this episode, a little oddly but the point there was to establish that the Vale Lords don’t respect him, other side of the coin is that Littlefinger now needs their (as in Royce) practical Military experience
And of course nice to finish on a massive lol with Tormund fawning over Brienne
That was all rather quite strange, seeing Brienne with Mel and Davos at the CB set, seeing Sansa and Pod at the Castle Black set etc etc
I just want episode 5, looks really good. I need that Bran and Night’s King vision! Its like all of the wights were staring at him and its the scene where NK grabs his wrist too.
HYPE, I cant wait another week for that 🙁
Wow! No Drogon ex machina, “just” Dany!
And Sansa and Jon, the pink letter, Theon home.
Yet another excellent episode, can’t wait for 605…
too bad that Ramsey :1 – Spearwives (Osha): 0, but I guess her being successful was not really an option.
Slew.
– Stannis the One True Grammarian
I don’t understand how people can rate this episode as bad.
Have you been watching the same show for the past 6 years that I have?
I have been waiting to see the Stark children unite for a long time and it finally happened.
My mother was crying when Jon and Sansa hugged and I was holding back. My whole living room was in complete silence just an emotional moment and when my aunt finally spoke you could her the emotion in her voice.
That’s power, a six year payoff in the making…
Amazing episode! I was breathless. Game of Thrones is back. Thank God they’re not rushing things up.
Torriene is my new endgame romance!
Which means they are doomed.
The final battle is slowing making more sense.
TEAM NORTH – Lead by Jon Snow. Including The Wildings, Vale, North, & White Walkers.
vs.
TEAM SOUTH – Lead by Dany Targaryan. Including Dorthraki, Dorne, & Dragons.
The pieces still to be decided are…. The Lannisters,Tyrells, The Faceless Men, & Riverlands. My guess is that The Faceless Men & Riverlands side with The North and The Lannisters & Tyrells go South.
Doesn’t Asha look like she has aged a few decades? She looks like old photos of my bubbeh…
Why are you saying goodbye to me? I didn’t say I was quitting the show. My goodness calm down, I can’t stand people like you. People on this board know I’m a show lover, I posted in nearly all of the GoT 50 threads. I just haven’t liked this season. Get over the fact that we have differing opinions.
Loved the Sansa/Jon reunion. I am so glad they had a brief scene of them talking about life at Winterfell. Of course we know they are half-siblings but I can’t recall them ever having a scene together, so it was perfect that the writers put in that exchange to give them a backstory, even if we didn’t see it in the first season.
The pink letter? Fucking love Sansa being assertive. Basically, this is what were doing Jon, so nod your head yes. This will be bittersweet if rumors are right
Tormund wants a piece of Brienne. That was pretty hilarious.
I feel for Davos. Damn.
If they kill Edd, I will riot.
I am so sad about Osha. Had hope she might escape and get to help. 🙁
They kill a badass chic like her, yet Daario still lives? Ugh.
That ending didn’t leave me feeling much of anything other then indifferent. It’s like Dany is put in these horrible situations but an episode or two later, she sprouts some Dothraki and all is well in her the world. I didn’t want to see her rape or tortured but I kind of hoped that this plot wouldn’t be another “kill the masters”. Kind of a waste of some potentially good characters. Ah well.
So for months now people here have been arguing about in what way Jon would be different after coming back from death. And not one person got it right: Brooding Jon now smiles. Jon now laughs. Jon now has a sense of humor. We had an inkling last week when he met Tormund and Edd; this week it was even more pronounced (until they found out about Rickon). Who woulda thunk it?
Some people prefer action and gotcha moments.
I love the acting, drama and story building.
Man! I just thought about this but the Vale to the rescue!!! Crazy, I wonder how many men they have? Do ya’ll think the Vale is taking over the Manderlys role? I am still thinking maybe the Umbers are pulling some espionage shit. At least I hope they are. I know some of you think Dany’s final scene was played but I was still surprised since I thought for sure Drogon would save her. She don’t need no saving! She doesn’t burn. Also that was a body double since reports say Emilia is pregnant. I loved this ep, it had it all intrigue, action, and a tender family reunion. Just sad to see Osha go like that. I thought we would have her for longer. I loved her, she was so badass!
Dude. I am all about the North (DaNorf) but that episode was good. All the CB stuff was great, the Dany stuff was great, Theon and Yara was heartbreaking, King’s Landing is finally moving toward something, Meereen, well Meereen sucked but that’s a given. The only thing lacking in this episode was a Bran vision and some cool Arya stuff.
RIP Osha, you precious cinnamon roll. Natalia Tena was fantastic in the role and elevated the book character to another level.
My only complaint is I am so sick of seeing Ramsay “win” – the emotional torture porn has got to stop. Please god, someone kill him so hard and soon.
Why do the 2 camps have to fight against each other?
Geralt of Rivia,
It’s always funny, I mean ridiculous, how quickly structures burn in movies and tv. The sides of the building were on fire for maybe twenty seconds and roof beams were already falling on people. I recall that was one of Roger Ebert’s least favorite cliches.
Not that I minded. One minute I was wondering how Dany was going to convince these guys to back her and the nnxt minute they were dead. A classic move in the game of thrones.
I genuinely don’t think people realize they’re still watching a TV show. Six years, and people have built up all of these epic set pieces that they’re not getting, so they’re frustrated. I get it. But honestly… this is still a TV show. An AMAZING TV show. In only four episodes they’ve managed to pull off stuff that would have taken them an entire season years ago. I think people forget the slow builds of season 2 (remember that it took nine episodes to get to the Blackwater battle) or season 3 (the long slow build in “Kissed by Fire,” “The Climb,” etc.)
I thought this episode was incredible.
I agree…and I hope she wears her Dark Sansa outfit more.
No you are right. He should’ve been in the show until it ended and do many important things,…. whyyyyyyyy must there always be complaining? Don’t you ever get tired of it. Shut up already.
I kept thinking that they were deliberately trying to make Asha/Yara look like Balon Mark II.
Firannion,
Weird… He’s exactly how I expected.
Laura,
True that!!
Great episode until that lame cheesy canon-destroying ending.
I’m thinking 2=4>1>3 so far.
I’m also thinking JONSA 2016 OMG.
Jon + Sansa!
RIP Osha 🙁
Civil war in KL!
DRACARYS! brand Khal barbecue
…all pale in comparison to the most important moment in this episode; Birenne has found her GiantsBAE
How on earth you can look at Dany’s forces and Jon Snow and think they aren’t going to end up on the same side, allied against the White Walkers, I’ll never know. 🙂
Jack Bauer 24,
I need Jonsa in every episode lol. Thank you 🙂
Yeah it’ll take me a while to figure what to make of it
Could be they are running out of ideas so are having to hark back to the supposed “one time magical event” of Season 1
The other side of the coin is it is much deeper, eg as the birth of Dragons was some kind of blood magic event involving Rhaego, Khal Drogo and Witch burning etc
But this is where Dany ate the Horses Heart etc etc. There is perhaps something there bloodmagic wise or
the Jansa reunion made this one of my top 5 episodes by itself
Tormund and Brienne NEEDS to happen..like ASAP
and Emilia OWNED it in that last scene.. my ass was about ready to kneel too and its a TV character for gods sake
**off to rewatch Jansa hug***
How do you know it’s canon-destroying? Have you read “The Winds of Winter” yet?
I could have predicted the cheesy ending comments. All week people were saying ‘it will be dumb if they have Drogon save her again.” There’s really no scene they could have done to please everyone. I liked what they did. She just defeated all of the khals and has earned ‘an army larger than the world has ever seen.’
I think the Dothraki must’ve bought their building materials for their big council hut from the same military surplus supplier who sold Stannis the tents for his army. One spark and poof! Up they go.
That was a great episode, Jon and Sansa…..I’m crying and doing the happy flayed taters dance………go Khaleesi!! Who’s zooming who Khal???
Fantastic episode, this has been an amazing season so far.
KINGSMOOT NEXT WEEK GET HYPED!!!!!
It is simply a meta theme about burning down tradition etc
Eg Khal Morro’s rants were very similar to the Ramsay PL, whereas his old man said he needed Sansa to keep the North onside, he’s intent on going the mad dog route and “screwing tradition”
Of course Jon and Sansa are as well, eg traditionally Warden of the North Starks have repelled the Wildlings but here they are having them as an Army
Sir Imp hand Strong,
I hardly complain on this site, or about the show, so how about you shut up. Idiot.
JANSA!!!!! Got goosebumps!!!!!
yeah we know you can’t be burned what next?
Sam,
Whaa the F…? Don’t know where you got that idea. Crazy and interesting theory but I don’t think the White Walkers are gonna team up with anyone!
GOd that sexy look Tormund gave Brienne XDDDD
Jon has the best small council XD
ash,
Um sorry, meant Yara……
Laura,
Oh my sweet summer child… (hehe)
Just how sweet is it going to be when we watch Jon bash that Ramsay fucker’s head in? We all feel the same way as you do. The show runners know this, so I think Ramsay’s death will be such a sweet thing to see. The more they make us want it, the sweeter it gets.
And I do not have a crystal ball but I would wager a huge sum that Jon takes him out.
1. GRRM has said The White Walkers are not what they seem. Which means them being pure evil makes no sense. Which means they can’t be the end game.
2. The entire premise is Fire and Ice….. Dany being Fire and Jon being Ice. What other reason would they have then to fight each other? The Lord of Light vs. The Great Other.
This is the big swerve of the series. Jorah has mentioned that there is good and bad on both sides. Plus, if you look at the characters left, there are a lot of duplicates…
Jon & Dany are both leaders. Davos & Tyrion are both get advisers. White Walkers are the opposite of Dragons.
This was definitely the first episode this season i didnt quite enjoy.
The Stark reunion we got and that the pink letter finally appeared on the show was awesome of course but overall it felt a bit rushed and i didn’t like the way how they made Jon soft, i really hope this wont be permanent.
And the ending was absolutely unnecessary in my opnion, they could’ve replaced it with better stuff like Drogon appearing to save the day or so…we already know since Season 1 that Dany is the mother of dragons, breaker of chains and blah blah blah…
But this was just the fourth episode and it build up to the big things that will come later this season.
Jon’s deadpan reading of the letter killed me in a good way. He had no time for Ramsay’s pathetic attempt to get Sansa. Jon’s not giving her away!
Now I need to know where Sansa and LF are in the preview. I wish I could freeze myself like The Winter Soldier and wake up in time for the next episode.
Jonsa 2k16 gets my vote!
Loved the episode! Especially the end ~ Dany was superb! And Sansa, Brienne and Margaery ~ also great. Some very funky strong women this season! But RIP Osha ~ one of the best!
He just got murdered and then came back. I actually like that he’s so hesitant now. Thankfully, he’s not gone gung-ho and like, “Yeah! Let’s go fight!” the moment he talked to Sansa. Soon, the brave Jon will come back. He just needs time to get over what happened to him. Being with determined Sansa and knowing that Rickon is the monster’s captive would be just the right push he’d need.
So Osha’s presence in Winterfell initially gave rise to interesting theories about why she was there – since she’s of no value to Ramsay. Umber conspiracy perhaps? This episode, we learn why she is there -to die. Because we haven’t seen Ramsay torture and kill enough people yet. So boring. What a waste.
Cameryn,
Martin explicitly stated that when asked, on top of making it obvious in the books by having Daenerys burnt by Drogon’s breath and some other instances.
It’ll be an interesting day when many of these people finally get to read “The Winds of Winter,” and find out that Brienne did in fact kill Stannis, and Dany did take control of the entire Dothraki, and Melisandre did really resurrect Jon Snow – and yes, they’re actually making a show based on GRRM’s books, including the one they hadn’t read yet.
Sooo hyped for Bran next episode, I am curious to learn more about the White Walkers.
The OTP And Council That Was Promised
The tv series and books have been pointing towards the characters each being on different sides and fighting each other…..
Geralt of Rivia,
Get over it already. They are not going to take 2 months to travel on a TV show.
Laura,
I loved the story but something was off. Writing, directing or cutting the episode. Maybe a bit of both. The story is fascinating and fun and building. But I didn’t like how they cut the last bit to make it look like a horror movie. Like Carrie. And there is always something hollow about explaining backstory via dialogue, as happened w Sansas conversation about her childhood with Jon.
The episode is strong in that it’s a compelling story and we got some great payoffs tonight. But there was something campy about it that didn’t sit right w me. Unlike last episode where the time blew by, I was pulled out of the viewing experience by what felt like camp to me.
As they say, it’s hard to define camp, but like pornography, you know it when you see it.
Clob,
If I knew that my choice of endings was Drogon burning everything and tonights ending I choose Drogon every time.
No she doesn’t have to do it every episode. That is why out of 54 episodes, she has only done it twice.
Well the night’s watch doesn’t have the man power to stand up against the others right now.. Jon will take back winterfell and will have the north on his side for the big fight coming over the next two seasons
Sam,
This is the Game of Thrones If you think there’s a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention. Just sayin
Lol as predictable as always the responses are ..
And makes my point valid some people always like to complain no matter what ..
And shouting for only one storyline and doesn’t care about other storylines does not make your opinions valid either …
Surely I must not be the only one who he is getting irritated by certain groups of people who want only one story line
I think you might invest a bit too much in GRRM’s vagaries. I’ll bet anything that the Vaes Dothrak story gets played out in TWIW very much like it did tonight.
This episode definitely made it seem like were in for a battle between ice and fire. Jon v. Dany two living gods basically. Each performing their own miracles. Viewers will be so conflicted when they have to choose between jon and dany, davos and tyrion, varys and littlefinger. I bet you before the huge battle we will have a scene where Varys and Littlefinger meet each on opposite sides to gloat to each other.
Denial is a powerful drug.
I guess you can’t please everybody, or maybe anybody. Here’s quotes from two different comments up thread.
“The final scene felt rushed tbh.”
“They just dragged out the ending longer than required.”
Anyway, I loved the episode, FWIW. And I don’t care if Dany isn’t supposed to be fireproof in the books. I’ll read the books again if I want that canon.
That was a solid episode… To mee, Mereen is a little boring, and KL needs to get on with it…
But the rest has been very good TV so far. I feel most entertained…
One funny fact though. This Vaes Dothrak seems a strange place. Gold melts and temple burn within seconds… Very hot and dry climate, ey?
but, if I wanted some realism, I should stop watching tits and dragons…
The Bastard,
No it hasn’t. If you turn out to be right I’ll eat my hat. Not sure why I’m responding to this. It is nonsensical.
DanTheMan,
He was murdered a few days ago and came back to life after being in some place where there’s nothing. Give him time to regain his strength, sanity and determination. He was terribly betrayed, had to kill a little kid who he took under his wing and who stabbed him in the heart. He’s feeling a bit broken atm. Anyone would be after experiencing what he has had.
Ok, maybe I am just slow but what is OTB?
Beer Island,
One episode in Vale and next in the North? When Sansa and Brienne it took 2 episodes to get to Castle Black, Oh sorry, for thinking logically. Some people just get too angry when some pointing out something. Should’ve known that.
Nymeria the wolf,
Ah, just like the Lena is pregnant comments last year. This scene didn’t JUST happen as if we’re Brooke Shields in that Friends episode. Even if Emilia is pregnant now she wouldn’t have been or been showing during filming. She may have used a double, she may not have. She has said she’s not against nudity, but doesn’t want to be known for doing it all the time. If the scene seems appropriate I’m certain she would.
LOVED: Jon and Sansa reunion. I may have teared up a bit. Then they let it breathe with them reminiscing about old times. And they even acknowledged Sansa’s poor treatment of Jon in their childhood. Just spot on and Sophie/Kit are nailing it right now. The Tormund-Brienne flirting and Edd’s awkward reaction. Basically, that whole dinner table scene. Everything in Castle Black is humming along right now.
The ending. It just worked for me, but I generally like Dany. I just think GRRM has stuck her with a terrible story where she just spins her wheels. At least I felt like this was progress.
Then and Asha: Great moment and I’m not big on the Greyjoys or the Iron Islands. A lot of brother/sister stuff tonight. I thought they really brought some great intensity.
LIKED: The KL stuff. Now that the Lannisters and Tyrell’s are united, things should start moving along. The High Sparrow continues to be one of the most (deliberately) irritating characters on the show.
DISLIKED: More Ramsay killing. At least it didn’t involve rape, which I was afraid of. I kinda knew Osha wasn’t long for the show, so it didn’t surprise me, but I wish they could’ve let her play out a little more this season. That was a good supporting character and they’re making a troubling habit of writing them out in a hasty manner.
Overall, the bookends were the best part. It definitely sagged in the middle. I’ll have to watch it again to get a sense of that Tyrion scene. They invested a lot of time in it, but i’m not sure if it was worth it.
dragonbringer,
same here, im tired of the whole complaining thing ‘ we dislike Danny’s storyline, we dislike Cersei’s storyline, why not only the north? the acting, too chessy’. Sometimes I wonder why they keep watching the show if they dislike everything about it
Alyssa,
Her clothes burn and her skin doesn’t either… if her skin doesn’t burn why can’t her hair not also. I know in the books her hair burns off but the show obviously doesn’t want a bald Dany and I’m sure Emilia doesn’t either.
Just because it’s established show canon doesn’t change the fact that it’s lame. Excess of magic. Dany Sue walks through fire, conquers all. Feh.
George R.R. Martin is the one who thought it was smart to have one of his central characters be isolated from the main action for most of the story. The TV show just has to do what they can to position Dany for the endgame . . . the final scene was mostly a way of justifying why the Dothraki will follow her going forward.
If the ending was more low-key, the complaints would be that it doesn’t make sense she just took over after some khals burned to death.
Louis,
We all would. Unfortunately this isn’t an Marvel movie with a 250million dollar budget for every 120mins of film. Also, it’s a little better this way because Dany has been backhanded by some for always playing the “Damsel in distress” role.
With what she did tonight, she was a leader and used her own cunning and powers to achieve her victory and win over the Dothraki.
EW just posted her interview. That’s no body double.
Excess of magic!? There are dragons and demons and resurrection and the walking dead risen and on the march.
What show are *you* watching???
Good grief, people don’t have to like every episode, or pretend to like it. Deal with it.
That last scene reminded me of the movie Carrie and all the fire … Fortunately, the eye candy Dothraki wasn’t there … he was so awful with Danny, maybe he’ll die anyway.
I suppose Drogon will make his appearance next …
I’m glad Jonsa reunion happened … it should have been longer though.
Poor Loras is so broken … and poor Rickon … without Osha and Shaggydog. I hope he really has achieved some new skills like warging …
Interesting Daario couldn’t give up his knife (The one with Harpies on it?…), my previous theory was that the “Whore woman” was the Harpy but last week seemingly quashed that one, my next bet is Daario as he wants war
The irony of Dany getting the Dothraki army is if they all get Greyscale from Jorah Mormont, having just watched the preview, it kind of reminds me of the Undead army Bran is seeing actually…really really really really looking forward to that
This week and next weeks episodes really seem to be twins, eg they have the Ironborn equivalent of the Khal meet in the form of the Kingsmoot
Personally I don’t mind KL, I would say the High Sparrow is really playing the Lannisters/Tyrells well, eg he knows Margaery wouldn’t have told Tommen that if he knew he wouldn’t tell his mother. The irony is that Pycelle may actually end up being right!
He’ll use the massive show of force to galvanise the public who will still remember Tywin sacking the city and they’ll fear the same from the Tyrells, that way he can rally the entire city behind him
This will backfire hugely, I personally expect the Lannisters/Tyrells to be ascending and clawing their way back but to catastrophically collapse at the end of the season and be evicted from the city. Personally I reckon they’ll have Kings Landing as a religious Theocracy for a time
Didn’t realize Arya was now actually No one I barely caught the way Jaqen phrased his sentence.
Jon and Sansa reconecting made me cry. I could see why he doesn’t want to fight anymore, he doesn’t want to die.
Asha’s death surprised me. Too soon…
The Dragon mother stood there naked long enough. It wasnt the jaw dropping, that she came out of the fire unscathed once again.
Things I want (Jonsa and Starkvengers Edition, because I don’t have time for non-Starks):
– Jon and Sansa to talk about what happened at Winterfell (I think he suspects what happened to Sansa because of the letter)
– Bran to know more about the WW and the ToJ vision; give me the reveal, HBO
– More scenes with Jon’s small council at the Wall; I’ll watch anything from deleted scenes to the gag reel; I want these characters to interact!!
– Why is Mel throwing the Prince That Was Promised theory around? Where was the salt?
– Where are LF and Sansa in the preview?
– Arya to buy a jetpack from LF
I’m spamming Stark/Jonsa at this point and I’m sorry WOTW, but I can’t contain myself.
So this assumes that Jon is probably not the product of R+L (hence, both fire and ice). Actually, we may all get the shock of our lives and learn later that that theory is bonkers.
Anyway, I agree about both camps having good and bad sides. But if this is the direction the book/show will go, I’m afraid it’s going to be a case of “if only both sides talked then all this misunderstanding would not have led to millions of people dying”.
I agree. As I said above, there are too many duplicates on each side for everybody to just join up and fight “bad guys” beyond the wall. I forgot to mention Varys and Littlefinger, but they are also another good example.
The war is probably going to start off as The Wildlings vs. Dothraki….
You get to say that when the book comes out. Honestly, book purists are gonna be pretty pissed. I guarantee it.
As for High Sparrow backstory
How about that Howland Reed orgy!
That Swampland must be some kind of place!
You guys are forgetting the obvious! They are not on opposite sides. I think they will give that up this season. L+R ?? Come on.
Firannion,
😉 But slayed works better as a pun on to kill and to amuse than slew, n’est-ce pas?
I liked the Meereen scene. I liked the High Sparrow. I hate what it seems like they are going to do to Loras. He’s totally going to convince Marge to turn on him.
Once again, I am surprised at how Jon doesn’t seem to care about the White Walkers now. Hopefully the battle of the bastards whips him back into shape. Melisandre needs to have a talk with him, it would seem.
After one viewing, I’d rate this episode 3rd out of the 4 episodes this season. I liked Meereen, but it’s still not my cup of tea. And Dany and the Dothraki don’t do it for me either.
Episode 5 looks interesting. I’ve been a critic of people bitching about Littlefinger’s jetpack, but even I am surprised to see him teleport to Castle Black from the Vale in one episode. Maybe the show should start doing the whole “1 month later” captions to denote a passage of time.
Arthur,
Yup it makes sense. I just didn’t like the way it played out on screen but it’s not a big deal.
Nymeria the wolf,
One True Pairing 😛
I thought Emilia Clarke wasn’t doing any more nude scenes. They probably used the same body-replacement tech as with the walk of shame and mellisande’s reveal, except instead of a body double they used footage from s1e10!
Incredible! Those first 4 episodes were absolutely awesome best start to a season without a doubt. A lot of things happening but we still have great quieter moments like the Jon and Sansa reunion (all 3 scenes between them were very good) or the high sparrow speech. So far I would rate the episodes
Ep 1: 8,5/10
Ep 2: 10/10
Ep 3: 9/10
Ep4: 9,5/10
I’m actually finding it fascinating that several people are interpreting “ice and fire” to mean opposing forces, i.e. Dany and Jon ending up on opposite sides.
But “a song of ice and fire” can mean something else entirely… two opposing forces of nature together in one song. Together. As in, united.
I genuinely do not get the whole adversary thing. I do think it’ll be Dany’s forces, together with Jon and the Wildlings, that unite to defeat the dead beyond the Wall.
Genuinely surprised to see some ppl didn’t like it. But eff them, that was awesome! My fave of the seasin so far. Some proper writing for a change and a balanced mix of scenes. AWESOME!!!
Best dinner time ever. I love love love the way Sansa is with Jon.
All the pieces have moved into place.
It is on!!!! 😀
Working backwards:
Dany the Unburnt. OK, fine. But it’s the same ol “shock and awe” moves. She really wants to become a leader masses follow out of respect and not fear, she’s needs another move. Fear fades. Ask granddaddy Aerys. It is interesting how the show is playing “the unburned”
Anyway, I’m sure I’m in the vast minority, but I was disappointed that’s the way she gets out of Vaes Dothrak.
Pink Letter! Sansa like, no, I know this psycho. He says he has him, he has him. Nut up, big bro, we’ve got Boltons to hunt. Oh yesssss.
ROTFLMAO with Tormund. I knew he’d be all hot over Brienne. Brienne just looks at him like, I do not know what to do with this.
I couldn’t watch. Osha. 🙁 She got a good line in. “You eat them afterwards? I’ve seen worse.”
Yara, Brienne (“I executed him.” Mic drop), Margaery were all amazing. But Sansa’s come so far. “I’ll do it with or without you.” But yes, I’m going to rewatch that opening Wall scene over and over again. Next week: Can Jon or Brienne punch Baelish once for me? Please?
The Mad King’s daughter proving the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.
It makes no such assumption. Jon can be half Targ and this can still work. It will probably add an interesting wrinkle into the final equation.
*O*M*F*G! That was EPIC!!!
Wait… was there anything else in this episode. I better watch it again. That fire… it burned away all else. *kneels* Long live the Khaleesi!
That’s your choice but it doesn’t make other options bad because you personally wanted it another way.
I wanted something major with Drogon as well. However, I see that there are some reasons to not use that. One major thing is to show that Daenerys can do things on her own, that she can earn/win her place without the use of a massive beast to make them. What will bring about more loyalty, fear or having them believe she’s some sort of god?
Another reason to not use dragons relates to what people were saying all week. Don’t overuse them. It loses a bit of the drama if every time Dany is in danger a dragon just flies in to clean up.
Put me down as one who loves the episode.
Sansa and Jon reunion right off the bat. I actually gasped that they were allowed to meet. And Sansa was great the entire episode.
Brother and sister reunions not just with Sansa/Jon but with Margery/Loras and Theon/Yara as well.
Lol with Tornund’s looks at Brienne and Daario saying he should have been born a Dothraki.
Hated Osha dying but at least she wasn’t tortured.
And I thought the ending worked. Happy it didn’t take Drogon. And the rape happy Khal’s deserved it
It wasn’t perfect. Nothing is. But I loved the episode.
Something I didn’t read above and think most are missing, that Danaerys didn’t just withstand the fire, she commanded it.
But that is “the good guys” vs “the bad guys”. And this has never been that type of story.
Yeah knowing GRRM this won’t be so simply
Jon has always been a bridging character, so while there is good evidence Dany is actually the PtwP, the Others won’t be as evil as people think
I personally suspect Jon will be a peacemaker between the Others and Humanity, he has consistently been a bridging character between two opposites, eg NW and Wildlings, Mel and Val, Rhaegar and Lyanna makes sense in this perspective
As for the last scene, I stopped whingeing quite quickly after the “unerwhelming” resurrection of JS
But, it’s hard to escape the feeling from reading GRRM ASOIF that there is some kind of twist missing, eg Jons resurrection will come at a price in some way, whether to Mels vitality, Jons personality
As for Mel and Davos, never really got a clear answer re Shireen, that may come back later on towards the very end with Davos killing Mel perhaps?
well ramsay is no theon he doesnt fall for tricks very easily. Ramsay is more of a bolton than roose. Roose didnt approve of what he did to theon and yet it 1- Got him info on starks 2- Weakened the iron islands by making Yara leave Balon and command of the fleet to rescue her brother which balon called her out for and said it made them lose the north basically. 3- Let Ramsay take moat cailin by using reek. 4-Gave him info on osha saving his own life in the process.
I still predict that the white walkers will come and Jon and Ramsay will need to form an alliance, it will be so infuriating and classic Game of Thrones trope breaking. No better way to show how much everything else doesnt matter except the fight against the WW.
I really wish I could, but these days I couldn’t care less about King’s landing. Everywhere else is so much more exciting.
Posting a comment before reading what anyone else has to say in case of excessive negativity.
Wow!
I expected a Drogon swooping in kind of thing. As much as I want to see some dragon action, I just love how Dany saved herself and has commanded the respect of Dothraki herself. I love the parallels with season one and how she had to go back to where she started to become a true leader again. Really cool!
The Sansa and Jon reunion had me all teary and despite the theatrics of the ending, was really my favorite part of the episode. The pink letter was so effective being read with Sansa in the room and I see why they pushed it back until later than it was in the books. I really loved Sansa’s strength and resolve, loved how she’s the one to convince Jon not to give up, and am feeling really vindicated for being fans of her all these years. Sophie and Kit were so fantastic this episode. So was Gwendoline Christie. I can’t believe it had never occurred to me that Brienne would have a not so pleasant encounter with Melisandre. I love how she just rolled up like I killed Stannis, what are you even gonna do about it?
I’m kind of hoping there’s no Ramsay in the next episode. I need a break from the horror. I’m not surprised that Osha is gone, but I wish it wasn’t so. Another great actor we have to have a curtain call for : ( I have to admit, it was a weird scene for me after having seen Iwan Rheon and Natalia Tena play a couple in Residue.
The Yara/Theon reunion was just kind of there. It was very well acted, but felt a bit out of place in the episode and I kind of wish it had been in next week’s instead. I’m really looking forward to the kingsmoot though!
What does it mean that Daario has discovered the greyscale? I’m wondering if Jorah is going to murder him to make sure his secret doesn’t get out?
Next week Bran is having a white walker vision? I was expecting the resolution to ToJ. I’m good with either!
I’m glad Margaery didn’t turn on Loras. At least not yet. I still think he’s probably not going to see the end of the season though. And I wonder how long this new found Cersei/Tyrell alliance can possibly last?
As usual, the Meereen part was the weakest to me. The cast did a great job and the dialogue was much better than last week, but that particular subplot still feels so stalled and frustrating. It’s even harder to care about Meereen after seeing Dany doing the unburnt thing and collecting a bunch of new followers. I’m so ready for the gang to join her and travel to Westeros. I really hope we leave Slaver’s Bay for good by the season finale.
Firannion,
Ha!
Yes! I love that he’s more vulnerable now – not afraid to show hurt feelings, fear, doubt, confusion, and even joy! His smile when he was talking to Sansa was so nice to see. He’s no longer this “cardboard” personality some non-fans were complaining about. 🙂 Woohoo!
Wall Builder,
Yep. Some people thought the episode was kind of long and boring… And yet everyone seemed excited for 59 minutes.
I hope Dany got a body double because I think they came back to her naked like 4 separate times.
I’m actually happy that they’re having to convince Jon to take winterfell he is the leader they want and need.
Uh, no. She never said that. She said she would do it if the story warrants it, but it’ll be her decision. And in the EW interview just posted she firmly declares that’s all her. No body double.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Because you don’t give one single reason why was it so bad… By the way that was the best KL for a long time, well balanced between the HS fanaticism ( excellent monologue-and by the way most of fanatics are boring people, fanaticism is boring so if Pryce managed to convey it it is to his credit, he is one of the best actors right now in the show), Margery’s shrewdness and Cersei’s attempt to act politically for the first time. Very well executed and played by all actors. Since you are a lover of GOT you should have noticed that for reasons that have to do with visual narration sometimes time can be relative. In any case the Jorah-Daario expedition was well structured within the episodes runtime. The show made it clear that Jorah knows DK by heart etc, etc… I am sorry but I cannot take you seriously…
Sir Imp hand Strong,
most of her greatest scenes had glorified or surnatural moments….but every time we go into the drama in her storyline it became boring
I thought it was an amazing episode, and I can’t believe anyone is complaining.
Kargaryen,
True but geeze give Jon a break he is tired he was killed by his “brothers” how would you feel. But by the time he read that letter he was on board. Ramsey was an idiot for sending that letter it just united the North. Hoping Ramsey becomes kibble for Ghost.
JS,
Watching it on one of them newfangled giant hd plasma tv gizmo thingamabobs, it looked like CG to me.
Anyone else think the prostitutes Tyrion provided to the slavers are a hell of a lot more than bed warmers? Like assassins perhaps?
I’m also wondering how long Dario will hold his tongue about Jorahs’ Greyscale…
Ravyn,
My summary would be much the same. Thanks!
Loved the first and last scenes. They are the kind that were lacking last season… the happy, cheering, tearing sort. I had the “HELL YEAH!” reaction for Dany so that’s why it’s disappointing to read the cheesy remarks.
I commented last week how tired I am of KL and the HS. It continued in the middle tonight but at least it looks like things will start happening.
I think that was a rumor started by Oona Chaplin where she said one of the lead actresses refused to do nudity and a lot of people just assumed it was Emilia.
I think Lena cost herself an Emmy by refusing to do the nudity. I know they said it was because of her pregnancy, but it seemed more like she just wasn’t comfortable doing it. In the DVD commentary she made a comment to that effect, that it would hurt her acting.
Louis,
What I have learned to do, and I know this will make sense to many others, is watch the show twice…
Because the first time you watch it, you’re constantly thinking and nitpicking in your head things you wish were done differently. I scrutinize this show sooo much because it is show a tremendous depth. It is impossible for any show to satisfy your imagination.
But when watching the show a second time, I come to respect and enjoy what D&D have put in place in front of me more, because my initial thoughts of how I pictured things in MY head are now gone, so I sit back and enjoy the show that is D&D’s vision.
I would love to see Drogon and Ghost in every episode but instead of letting what you wish for be the enemy of what we actual got, just try to enjoy what we got instead.
If you do this, I promise you the show will be much more enjoyable. No amount of money can compare to what you can imagine in your head while reading a fantasy book.
Just enjoy the show for what it is, not what you wished it to be.
I’ve never seen ‘slayed’ as a real word in any context, truthfully. I work as an editor in real life, and overregularization of irregular verbs just happens to be one of my pet peeves. To me ‘slayed’ is comparable to saying ‘runned’ or ‘goed’ or ‘falled’ or ‘breaked.’ Sounds like baby talk.
It was after the 9 PM airing had started, which is what that warning has always meant in the past. The open chat is so we can chat the episode live, if we want. As long as you don’t give spoilers that have not yet officially aired, you are good.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but this is the way it has always been.
Bite your tongue! 🙂
Of course, I don’t expect anything to happen to Brienne. She has been set up as impossible to defeat and has a stronger hero arc then Jon and Dany combined. Plus, she is supposed to make Jaime likable and that is no easy feat considering for the past 2 seasons he has been under Cersei’s thumb and basically a toolbag.
Tormund on the other hand….I don’t expect him to make it out of this season in one piece. 🙁
And again, with the posts from people being pissy if anyone has something critical to say. Sweet Jesus. Take the good with the bad. Not everyone is going to love everything.
I guess that apart from fire, Daenerys is immune to smoke and falling debris.
He does do the smirk like no other!
Okay, so in show canon, they’ve now established Dany as fireproof when she wants to be, and resurrection as really pretty easy as long as there’s a red priest or priestess around. Doesn’t that make things a bit predictable now? I enjoyed the some of this episode, but not the end.
Cameryn,
Agreed. It’s about bring balance to a world where everything is out of balance including the seasons.
This Mary Sue thing needs to be retired, because it has lost all meaning.
Dany fails all of the time. The entire Mereen plot is about her failing to be the savior she thinks herself to be. How is she a Mary Sue now? Do you even know what the term is supposed to mean?
dothrakian raven,
You’re such a bitch. You can’t comprehend the fact that we simply have differing opinions. You’re like offended by it or mad about it. I could go on and state reasons why I haven’t liked this season as much, which I’ve done ad nauseam in other threads, but it’s a waste of time to even do so with you. Look at your response, I’m not a true fan because I don’t understand why it was so good? How old are you?
Icekhione,
This made me laugh +1
lol..love this
This episode was awesome with two prominent themes reunions and power to the females. Loved it. I cried when Sansa and Jon saw each other for the first time in 5 years. I laughed at Ed’s reaction to Tormonds flirting with Brienne. Dany finally stood up and took control herself. Kings landing is heating up. All I can say is wow. Great episode and an awesome season. So far.
Clob,
It was her in the scene and she said has never made comments saying she doesn’t want to do nudity. All the things about her refusing to do nudity and have a “no nudity clause” are made up rumors that have spread throughout the internet.
Arthur,
I`ll take that wager. Ramsey is dog (Ghost) food.
Was not my idea, either. Was replying to The Bastard. 🙂
dothrakian raven,
About Osha: I am sure D&D would have tried their best to adjust her in the story but obviously they couldn’t find a better exit than this one. The scene was extremely well done. She had a clean, white dress (quite symbolic for her character), she was witty and the interaction with Ramsay made the whole scene funny until the bitter and dramatic end. She tried her best but Ramsay has a sinister sense of humor that pays back viciously. Just excellent!
No one likes an unsolicited English lesson. Save it for the paying clients. We are all just here to have fun.
Ravyn,
I think you’re my soulmate poster. I always agree with your thoughts about each episode.
Those who still think the Umbers are pulling a fast one on Ramsay here, I think with the death of Osha tonight we can put that theory to rest. Yes, she’s just a wildling and not important in the scheme of things/”the game”, but there’s no way Rickon would have agreed to be part of any plot that put her in danger of being killed. Yes, the Umbers really have turned on the Starks and they really did kill Shaggydog. I hate it, but it’s Occam’s Razor here.
Did Osha give a little Skagos shoutout when she referenced cannibalism or was it just a Thenns reference?
Dany Sue lol! What a book wanker!
Jon being ressurrected is better, I assume? These two have superpowers in the show. People should just deal with it.
My bad!
Geralt of Rivia,
Its just ridiculou . Because we know they don’t travel that fast in the books. We also know there is no way for them to truly express that on a TV show. Its into its 6th season and the complaining about that is stupid because they can’t help that. It doesn’t matter how fast someone end up somewhere except that they are meant to be there. Yes when they change plot lines and send Jaime to Dorne or have Sansa marry Ramsey, those are legit complaints.
Even if they waited 2/3 episodes it still would be unrealistic. Balon Greyjoy was the first of the 5 kings to die, on the show he was the last. The fact that matters, is he died as he was supposed to for the plot to move along
Because it is inevitable. It will not go down well if Dany invades Westeros by using Dorthraki and Dragons. Someone has to stand again her. It makes for a more interesting story when we really know and empathize with the two different sides in the battle.
They might come to some agreement, I dont think we will see them fighting a prolonged battle, but I do believe they will very likely be on opposite sides when Dany first invades.
The episode was pretty good. It was great to have the Sansa and Jon reunion. I guess Jon just wanted one day without responsibilities or a small holiday. lol
Interesting that he is still eating, I guess that means he isn’t undead? Seems more like he was just in a coma and then he was brought back to life.
The way Tormund was checking out Brienne, was one of the funniest scenes on the show, ever!
It feels like the Kings Landing plot could be a bit shorter. And now Dany can finally return to Mereen with an army.
Another fantastic episode! This one slides in just under ‘Home’ as best episode this season.
The Wall: The big stuff that happened here was everything I had hoped for. The Jon and Sansa reunion was as emotional as I expected it would be. The fact that it’s now Sansa, the self-absorbed little girl, telling Jon, the fearless warrior, that they have to fight to take back their home is profoundly satisfying for both of their characters, but especially for Sansa. Her actions in this episode really drive home that the cruelties she suffered last season steeled her for what is transpiring now.
But as great as the Big Picture stuff was at the Wall, the details were just as impressive. Edd reminding Jon of what they saw at Hardhome, Tormund checking out Brienne like you know he would, Melisandre making clear that her loyalties are to Jon, and the elephant in the room being addressed: Brienne confessing to Davos and Mel that hey, I was the one who killed Stannis! So much to love at the Wall!
Meereen: This setting has been a slow burn this season, but the scenes in this episode were really great. Great moments from Tyrion, Missandei, and Grey Worm, but surprisingly not a peep from Varys. Once again, Tyrion is a masterful politician. It may well be that war between the slavers and the freedmen is unavoidable, but it always is worth trying to find a peaceful way to solve problems than to rush into war. Being a history nerd I really enjoyed D&D’s reference to Abraham Lincoln as an inspiration for these scenes.
King’s Landing: Like Meereen, also a slow burn so far, but things are ramping up. I can honestly say I have no idea how Margaery gets out of the cells by 606. It was good to see Kevan and Olenna give some ground to Cersei and Jaime in this episode. Their intransigence last episode was important to establish them as being at odds with one another, but it should be clear as day that the High Sparrow is the number one threat to both of them, and that threat needs to be addressed before anything else.
Vaes Dothrak: All hail Daenerys, the Unburnt Times Two! Had a feeling things would go down about as they did, although I was pretty confident that Jorah and Daario would be captured in their rescue attempt. Jorah’s fighting abilities seem to be being affected by his greyscale. That doesn’t bode well for his future.
Winterfell: Poor Osha. She thought she could play the same trick on Ramsay that she pulled on Theon, but unbeknownst to her, Theon had already given her secret away. Ramsay will not last the season. He just can’t.
Once again, the Wall wins the episode, but there was so much good stuff everywhere in this episode. On to Winterfell!
Also…looks like no Tower of Joy Part Deux next week, doesn’t it? Not sure how I feel about that.
No ToJ next episode because Bran has the NK vision.
No Drogon either because they didn’t use the fly over shot from the trailer in the preview for next episode.
praedictus,
I wish, sadly I bet we all wished, even the show runners, but that CGI would be more money and if it came out a little fake looking would diminish the emotional impact of finally seeing Ramsay get what he is due.
So I will bet you 10 gold dragons!
Did you see the shots of her double?? She is her doppelgänger!
Firannion,
I’ll give it a pass as long as they never do it again.
It’s been like that for a while now and it’s only getting worse. I’ve pointed that out just a few posts ago. If people don’t like some storylines, keep it to themselves. There’s always someone who’ll enjoy other storylines.
That look on Dolorous Edd’s face when Brienne and Tormund were sizing each other up: Priceless.
Laura,
Thanks! I try not to get too high/low on any individual episode because, after 5 seasons, I’ve learned that by the end, I’ll probably feel different about what I saw earlier, so I always wait for a final verdict until I’ve heard the whole narrative.
Cameryn,
Yes, thats the way I always thought of it.
Lonald,
yes, this!
There is approximately 13 episodes left after this season. I think we are at the point where we have to stop worrying about how/when characters get to places.
Ghosts Lunch,
I think the term bridge works for Jon, he is the pivot between ice and fire and so I still think TPTWP. Dany is now the Targ fire/days queen who sits in opposition to the (probably) Stark ice/nights king. Jon is the prince who bridges both worlds, Stark and Targ, fire and Ice.
There was the idea years and years ago (before Crows came out) that the Walkers had agents among the humans. I was one who thought that Baelish might be one of their operatives. That idea sort of faded away, I think.
Almost certainly the Thenns. After all, we saw them eating humans.
Never multiply explanations without need! (Hence, my icon.) But remember: the Umbers first and foremost duties are to their people. There are thousands of Wildlings south of the Wall. We know that the Wildlings are refugees. They have no reason to think that: Wildlings never have been anything but reavers before.
This will, no doubt, be a challenge for Jon and Sansa: Northerners might prefer Starks to Boltons, but they prefer Northerners to Wildlings.
“Book of the Stranger”… seems odd the episode was titled after an obscure line by Margeory. I’m glad the Jon/Sansa reunion happened right out of the gate. Tyrion story should get back in line now that Dany has re-emerged. KL intrigue appears to be about to come alive.
To me this season is progressing perfectly. Tonight was a “Hell Yeah!”
Firannion,
I guess you were sleeping when jon got resurrected and thousands of people calling him jesus’s second coming ..
just last week how people are theorising that bran maybe strongest of all and he can even alter the past
I haven’t had time to read material about this scene specifically yet. I have heard her interviews in the past where she said she’s not against it for proper reasons so I just assumed it was all her.
LOL “no you shut up”
Speaking of which, I just loved the moment where Cersei suppresses her trademark smirk when she realizes that she has Kevan and Olenna wrapped around her little finger. Sometimes what an actor refrains from saying or doing can be more powerful than what they actually say or do!
Jon’s resurrection- “too muted, I wanted more fanfare, more fire”
Dany kills Khals- “over the top, too much fire, omg just a rehash of a previous event”
Make up your minds
Season 5 (excluding Hardhome) was weak and I think most people agree but season 6 has been awesome and it appears only a vocal minority are trashing it. Tumblr is garbage as usual, one girl went on a couple paragraphs long rant how Sansa “stole” the Jon reunion from Arya, it had me worried that it would screw up the scene for me so I watched it again- thankfully still tears on my part
Kargaryen,
Jon didn’t resurrect on his own you know. it was all Mel.
Torrienne is the most romantic thing I’ve scene on this show. And Edd’s face looks like he feel he is interrupting something. 😀
The Dany scene reminded me of a Johnny English scene in which all the MI6(?) men are in attending a funeral and a bomb goes off, killing every one of them. I would not criticize the way it played out in Dany’s case, because I don’t know how she could have pulled it off in a better way. At least this was better than Drogon Ex Machina.
Osha’s death was cleaner than I expected. I was afraid that Ramsay would rape, flay and then burn or hunt her. A dagger on the throat was kinder than regular Ramsay stuff. Glad I didn’t have to watch Rickon suffering in the cells either. Though it might happen in any episode .. 🙁
Did not like the Theon/Asha scene. Asha was justified in all her reactions to Theon, but comparing book version of their reunion, this scene made Asha appear too selfish, as if she was paranoid about a broken man stealing her throne. I’m actually gonna cheer for Euron next episode.
I’m glad Margaery is still strong and holding her own. Hopefully
.
Biggest complaint is that the title did not suit the episode. The Vaes-Dothrak related titles that fans have suggested was better. Or something to do with the family reunion theme (we had three sibling-reunions this episode). ‘Book of the Stranger’ is a deliberate attempt to make the High Sparrow and Faith stuff important. But most of us would rather skip during his long boring speeches (today’s wasn’t so bad, I admit). First time since the beginning of the show, I agreed 100% with what Cersei said in an episode.
And the biggest cheer is of course for Jon-Sansa reunion. It was BEAUTIFUL! Sansa smiled properly, and Jon laughed, like the first time in ages!
It seems that Melisandre and Davos will split up – Mel go with Jon and Davos with Sansa. I don’t really like Mel-Jon team idea, but Davos and Sansa is great! Sansa is finally getting a team of loyal people! All she needs is to finish off Baelish after winning the war.
I want to see more Tormund/Brienne interactions.
errrrr banging my head on the keyboard…. Yes those are Dany’s tata’s she confirmed it but the banging head part is everyone bitching about the last scene not on here yet that ive seen but two words: BLOOD and MAGIC… Which begs the question where did she learn it?
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Well that is a question you have to ask yourself. You have not yet provided a single reason why the episode was so bad. Opinions are one thing but truly intelligent people are able to elaborate a bit more when they are challenged. You have even distorted my words. You are just a joke…
I cannot get over the fact that there’s some actual emotional reward in this show suddenly. Jon-Sansa reunion, Sansa setting an agenda instead of being a victim, Starks on the rise! It’s crazy. I may have to stop watching. I thought I signed up for a weekly dose of extreme depression and disappointment, and shouting “No! Stop!” at the television – not tearing up in happiness.
Tormund and Brienne definitely owned this episode. I don’t care how many khals Dany toasts, or how rad she looks emerging from the flames, or how many people bow to her – Torienne wins the hour.
On the flip side, could someone please, please just kill Ramsay already?
And while they’re at it, maybe the whole KL storyline, but especially that sanctimonious High Sparrow, who clearly ripped off his moment-of-conversion story from the Buddha?
🙁 https://twitter.com/GoT_Tyrion/status/732041272291008512
this is beautiful. Now we need Jon and Arya back together!
Everytime they want to make a badass Dany, the plot gets contrived. It’s rinse and repeat.
Ummm…nope, nope, nope. You’re never going to get that, any more than any of us is going to get everything we wish for out of GoT. This is a discussion group, not a fan club. No one is required to pretend that they like every part of every episode just because they like the show (and/or books) in general. Critical thinking advances understanding and appreciation of any form of art or literature. You can’t tell people ‘If you don’t like it all, go away.’ Sorry to break the news.
The Bastard,
I am not so sure about your assumption of the Song of Ice and Fire being the clash between Dany and Jon. I am more convinced that Jon is literally the Song of Ice (L) and Fire(R). Even with that I do not necessarily see that as becoming a good (the Realm) vs evil (White walkers) stereotype.
Speaking of stereotypes, that is exactly why I liked the ending of this episode. Ever since we heard about the filming of a large fire in Vaes Dothrak, many of us assumed that Drogon comes to Dany’s rescue. I kind of dreaded that outcome as in my view that is much more cliche. Instead Dany helps herself and gets the Dothraki just by showing her strength alone – though I am sure the dragon will still be a great asset in the wars to come…
I loved what Dany did, proving herself strong how Jorah told her she should be to have a true khalasar. My only complaint was about the CGI but again, they don’t have that much time and also restricted money so I can go with that.
Now that his mother has embrace fire and blood again, Drogon should return!
Exactly. Glad someone said this about Jon. Can’t imagine what it would be like to know you were murdered for doing what you felt was right. Jeebus. That’d be hell. Give the dude a chance to recover from his trauma. Then kill the boy.
I thought I was the only one who noticed that. The lighting didn’t help; maybe they wanted a care-worn look?
ahhh awesome episode!!
Loved Sansa and Jon reunion, loved Dany taking control for herself and becoming a formidable leader (and immune to fire without magic).
Thought Osha might have gotten the better of Ramsay for a split second oh well : (
lol Thormunds intense stares at Brienne aka same as Jamie ; )
Worried for Brann next episode when that nights king grabs his arm….will he come back?
Yes!! That crossed my mind too, about the assassins, but it probably won’t happen.
The show is an abomination.
we can see cleary the change in jon snow 2.0 he is less brooding and smile more and even laugh and make joke he is not batman anymore but he is also hurt,sad and hurt he died and there was nothing on the other side….he realise that he have a second chance and want to enjoy it instead of living and wasting his life folowing a cold and rigid dogma….
Icekhione,
Glad you mentioned that Mel was the one who brought back Jon ..it certainly looked like no one remembered that part and calling him as AAr and god …maybe if they called Mel as AAR and god then maybe it would have been nice ..
And you seem to be very hurt because of the dany scene…. Be honest to yourself You would have complained whatever way it happened so get over it ..
For my part I loved the High Sparrow
The irony in all of this is that Pycelle may actually be correct!
A great point hidden in plain sight, no one takes Pycelle seriously because he is portrayed as a frail fool but everyone misses the point that is often correct
High Sparrow is playing all them brilliantly, people aren’t watching correctly, he, like Varys is a master class in subtle manipulation. LF as well but Aidan Gillen is putting the creepy persona on.
Of course he knows Tommen will blab to Cersei and how they will act, and of course he knows Marge is never going to “confess” or “repent”, the Nobility are like the Masters, they see the subjects and beggars the same as Masters see the slaves and have a “born to rule” mentality
The city has bad memories of Tywin sacking the city, so a huge show of force by the Tyrells will get them nervous and so he’ll be able to get them onside
I actually suspect an arc whereby the Lannisters and Tyrells are making progress on clawing back their position and then there’s a catastrophic loss for both at the end of the season..
I expect both will be evicted from the city KL will be a religious Theocracy for short time
As for Dany, I always apply a wait and see, but prefer the Targaryen Fiery sense of self entitlement and not this smug petulent type that reeks of modern Hollywood pandering towards Feminism
The unfortunate thing is that in their theme of railing against “tradition” they are slagging off the women of the Dosh Khaleen as much as the big bad patriarchal Khals, as the Dosh Khaleen actually hold immense power, similar to what Lady Cat holds and Sansa (and to a degree Marge) holds
So could be Emilia’s acting irritating me, could be the Directors, eg if Dany said those same things in a Fiery manner ala eating the Horses Heart etc my perspective may be different
Of course there may be a theme of “everything Dany touches does turns to shit” because she is following Viserys dream rather than her own dreams of the “Red Door”, eg Slavers Bay, so by burning down and railing against the “big bad tradition” there’s the matter that she may subject the Dothraki to catastrophic civilisational collapse, like Slavers Bay and things end up even worse
For instance, there’s a reason why Slavers Bay trades in Slaves, there’s no other resource they can support an economy upon
HousePotterz,
I don’t enjoy how they have made Jon be nonchalant. Seriously after receiving a letter like that he still seemed like he had to be talked into doing anything about it. I expected him to get a little angry and show more backbone. I already miss pre-death Jon. He would have stood up and took charge, not need Sansa to convince him what needs to be done.
Demon Monkey,
I think it’s that the writers this week were D&D. Different writers last week and it felt more “natural” in some ways. I do understand what you mean when “something is off”
I’m actually finding it fascinating that several people are interpreting “ice and fire” to mean opposing forces, i.e. Dany and Jon ending up on opposite sides.
But “a song of ice and fire” can mean something else entirely… two opposing forces of nature together in one song. Together. As in, united.
I genuinely do not get the whole adversary thing. I do think it’ll be Dany’s forces, together with Jon and the Wildlings, that unite to defeat the dead beyond the Wall.
Yes, yes and yes. It’s so clear to me the key word is “song” as in unison. Dany and Jon, sister and brother, are clearly going to unite. They will not be going to war – at least not against one another but definitely against the Lannisters and the the White Walkers. And the Tyrell’s will “bend a knee” repeating history and staying in good graces.
Then again, I know nothing Jon Snow. Must… keep… watching…
Yeah this is a fair point, harks into the entire theme of the episode about revolting against tradition
Kargaryen,
He’s got no superpowers or is special unlike Daeny. Resurrection happens.
Firannion,
The only people I’ve heard say slayed are comedians, as in “Patton Oswalt slayed at the Yucks R Us last night.”
I know they don’t have a lot of time but I want them to go a little deeper on why Mel truly believes Jon is TPTWP.
I don’t these are the same people with those two objections. The people who want everything to be ‘epic’ would have liked Dany’s fire scene and found Jon’s rez too ‘muted.’ Those of us who found tonight’s ending excessive probably mostly thought Jon’s rez was just fine as is – I certainly did, and would’ve hated it if he arose out of a pyre.
In a perfect Game of Thrones episode….
1) Jon Snow kills Ramsey Bolton. Mel brings Ramsey back to life….
2) Sansa Stark kills Ramsey Bolton. Mel brings Ramsey back to life….
3) Brienne of Tarth kills Ramsey Bolron. Mel brings Ramsey back to life…..
4) Ramsey Bolton is flayed. Mel brings Ramsey back to life.
5) Ramsey is left to rot, hanging upside down, with no skin on his body….
6) Ghost devours him.
The End.
Did y’all see that screenshot for the preview for the next epsidode on hbo go? Shows 4 children of the forest squatting in a green/grassy area, with those stone things (shown covered in snow later in the trailer with Bran & Zombies) in the background. hmmm
Going to predict it now…John goes north to rescue Bran next episode which will give him time to get back for S6E09…Davos/Sansa/LF put together the army in the meantime…
Also I think we just saw the beginnings of the speculated romance between John and Sansa which I believe will happen in the books…it could happen as they are not siblings.
It’s strange that everyone hates Aerys II for burning people, but when Khaleesi does it, she’s cheered for.
I don’t know if this has been suggested but if Ramsey sets his hounds onto Rickon isn’t their a possibility that Rickon will warg them and set them back onto Ramsey – I’d suggest thats on the cards as a nice poetic end to Ramsey Bolton. This could of course be done by Jon or Sansa but Rickon is the only Stark other than Bran that knows this is possible in the series – and I can’t see Arya finding her way to Winterfell for ep 8 and 9. Though if anyone has access to a Tardis it is her.
I did state reasons why. They just weren’t the reasons you agreed with or wanted to here. Then you dismissed me from the show, waved me farewell just because I stated different opinions than you. Get a grip dude. Learn how to better deal with it when people don’t share the same views as you.
Geralt of Rivia,
He’s literally a song of ice and fire. He is special.
So going by the trailers the Dothraki Dany won over tonight are leading the charge against an attacking Sons of the Harpy in Mereen.
simon,
The ferocious hounds that vanished the second Brienne showed up to save Sansa? When it comes to a fight, methinks their bark is worse than their bite.
Firannion,
You should really say that to ” oh all I care about is wall and nothing ever matters and finish up those story lines and have only wall in an episode ” not who speak against them..
Tbf getting stabbed like that and the experience of actually dying or at least Near Death equivalent for a lot of people would make some inclined to curl into a ball and be a lot more thoughtful about rushing into conflict of any kind
I think there’s meant to be a theme there that it is a deeply considered decision to go out and fight
I think we may get a similar dynamic concerning a certain Gravedigger
And of course there is Sansa’s arc and her display of assertiveness (and to stop Feminists squealing about her being “protected by a man again”), eg we start off with her showing the first semblances of power in accepting Briennes protection, this is then evolving into being able to influence people to do her bidding which I expect her to become quite powerful.
Starting with convincing Jon to do the common sense right thing regarding their family etc
Simple enough
But I expect this to go into the Riverlands and to go into some quite controversial directions in due course…
Icekhione,
Good lord, get back to westeros.org with that “canon-destroying” talk.
Yes, we know, not all Targaryens are fireproof. Daenerys is. Is there proof in the books to the contrary?
It’s unbelievable the amount of complaining after such a fantastic episode, but especially when it comes to Dany. If Drogon had flown in and rescue her, it would have been Dragon-ex-machina. If Jorah and Daario had managed to whisk her out of Vaes Dothrak, it would have been the big, manly men rescuing the helpless princess. Instead, she takes her fate into her own hands and wins over an entire people by using the gift that SHE has: she is immune to fire. Whether she is or isn’t in the books is not only unclear, it’s irrelevant. In the show, she is absolutely fireproof. And she saved herself, as she HAD to in order to win over the Dothraki.
SHEESH.
NK cometh!
Icekhione,
People have their biases it is what it is. Imagine the shit storm if the endgame favors Jon over Dany or vice versa people are going to freak out. So many people are so invested in the story a lot are going to be disappointed when they realize their biases have no reflection on the outcome.
I thought it a pretty good episode. I’m no Sansa-lover (too much of a book reader for that), but the reunion with Jon was heartwarming. And she’s become sufficiently canny to provide the ideas that propel the revenge and give Jon purpose.. But Gods, I hope she sees through Littlefinger when he shows up next week. Glad to finally hear the Pink letter with appropriate Show adjustments– Ha! Kudos to Dangerous (I think) for hoping Dany would burn down the hut with the braziers. And kudos many posters for lots of spot-on guesses. But there is a negative side to that: an abundance of very good guesses also connotes a level of predictability. For me, only Dany’s strategy with the Khals hut was a surprise, though there was never any doubt that somehow she’d prevail.
I never thought Jorah would bite the dust tonight, but he is clearly weakening as the Greyscale spreads. Do any of you think Dany might possibly have the Royal Touch and cure Jorah? I wouldn’t put it past GRRM, who knows his mediaeval history, to use that.
What a magnificent episode? To all those arsewipes complaining needlessly….nobody cares, this is good show, making shit tons of money, and keeping many employed and entertained. Your petty opinions are just that petty. For the moronic bubonic plagues who are so avidly spouting an opinion that’s nobody who matters will ever hear let alone pay attention to… Hahahhahahahaha !!! As the great and the good once said, “I fart in your general direction, now wipe your arses and go home”
You have zero life. How are you spending your night regurgitating the same thing, post after post, hoping for a reply. Go out and get a life.
IKR?!! That was one of my favorite parts! Someone on here predicted that this would be an interesting meetup.
I loved all of your comment, WWTH. Thanks.
I’m curious as to how little the title played into the episode. Margaery gives a quote from the book that doesn’t even seem that significant, but perhaps I’m not reading enough into the meaning. And then the High Sparrow tells that story of the feast and waking up with everyone and clothes piled next to them. Was it an orgy-fest? Is that why the clothes were next to them? I have the feeling that I’m not really understanding his conversion experience at all.
Interestingly, I am beginning to suspect that like book Arya with Cats as well as Direwolves, book Sansa at least is developing a fledgeling abilit to warg Dogs (and perhaps Bats down the line)
Eg a closeness to Sandor Clegane, eg the Hound, who ended up being a substitute protector once her Direwolf Lady died.
But also there’s the Dog at the Fingers in the Vale etc
Would be quite something if she did end up warging one of Ramsays bitches and turning them onto him….But I also dreamed of Ghost ripping Olly apart so….
CatspawAssassin,
LOL
Perhaps his more viscous baby eating dogs.
Careful there. As a dyed-in-the-wool Second Wave feminist who was in a Consciousness Raising Group (anybody remember those?) and helped run my campus women’s organization back in college, spent the better part of 1978/79 working for the National Women’s Political Caucus, fundraising door-to-door trying to get the Equal Rights Amendment passed, later worked for the Planned Parenthood Federation etc. etc., I want to say on behalf of my sisters that we find ‘smug petulant types’ just as irritating as anyone else does.
HousePotterz,
Dany haters. People who only watch the show for the Starks and badass characters like the Hound or Bronn and hate Brienne when she proves to be better. It is going to be worse when Daenerys arrives at KL.
Sue, could you tell us who is more sue? is it ramsay more sue or is it danny more sue?
No, Jon has no superpowers. He died. He came back from the dead because of Mel (at least that’s what it looked like).
This season has really picked up the pace. I was a little worried that it would be at the expense of the story, but the last 2 episodes have built things up nicely while still advancing the plot.
Very happy with the Stark reunion and also that the Dany storyline got resolved so quickly and without any dragon help. Subtlety has kinda gone out the window for now, in terms of plotline, but it feels like we are rounding the last bend and heading torwards the final straight so it’s understandable.
Looking at a lot of the comments the KL and Meereen stories are just being met with apathy which is a shame. Hopefully Dany gets back to Meereen and across to Westeros by the end of the season, KL i have no idea how it’s going to play out.
Really enjoying this season so far, the plots are all starting to come together for the finale. Not sure how Aryra fits into it all as well, but looking forward to finding out
Boudica,
I am the only one who sees that got is becoming obecessed with giving power to women? This ep jon was basically a coward being bossed by sansa… the iron lands plot is putting sasha as their leader, kings landing cersei just manipulates tommen and then she and olena control what the council does, dorne is dorne…
This women power seems so forced… in one or two places it is interesting, when you apply it to everywhere it is STUPID.
Lastly, they use the unburnt thing but arya/jon don t warg and they used the less interesting way to bring jon back? seriously????
Sir Imp hand Strong,
At 4 am in the morning? gtfo
agro,
Ramsay will definitely be dead by the end of this series so there’s your answer
Agreed!
Ghosts Lunch,
Nice thoughts.
I’m thinking Rickon because it would be a real show stopper to have a defenceless tortured child turn Ramsey’s weapons on him just as we thought all hope way lost.
The episodes keep getting better and better!
Sansa is one of my favorite characters and I’m glad to see her taking charge and learning from her past. She’s one of the most relatable characters for me.
I’m also soooo glad that Dany didn’t have Drogon and Co. to bust her out. I was super excited when she grabbed the braziers.
Loved the Brienne/Tormund stuff and the Brienne/Davos/Melisandre awkwardness. Team Jansa may still have a few kinks to work out in that regard.
I kinda figured Osha would die in some way, but for a second I thought Ramsay would consider a new girlfriend when she asked him if he ate flayed people. XD
The Kings Landing stuff was also pretty good. I love set-up and subtle episodes!
Those weren’t ferocious hounds. They were only bloodhounds, not the vicious attack dogs that Ramsay uses for his hunts. Look closely and you’ll see that they look completely different.
Because he has a TARDIS?
Terrific episode BTW, 4.5 out of 5 stars.
Lol!
Good for her. Wouldn’t it be awesome if every actress’s contract read so that the actress herself had the discretion as to whether each scene warranted nudity or not, putting the choice with the actress?
You left out Theon’s contribution, but otherwise, well-explicated.
Icekhione,
Daeny is surrounded by magic, mythical hero, unburnt and all this. She fullfiled everything. Jon is average Joe compare to that. I wouldn’t say this makes him special or that ASoIaF is about one person. This is not Grrm style. Life vs death, The Others vs Dragons, R’hllor vs The Great Other or NK.
It really shouldn’t be, given that they know Cousin Robin is bringing the full might of the Vale to back them. The Stark rallying cry really should be “get on the victory train or get left in the dust.”
Firannion,
Hah!
Yeah that scene was fantastic, just stares both Mel and Davos down and tells them to their faces she was part of Renly’s Kingsguard and that she “executed” Stannis
That woman has a lot of guts!
Think there may be a point there about the past ultimately catching up to people, as Shireen burning may do to Mel before the very end (eg Davos will likely kill her on the spot)
That and Daario. First of all massive lols, oh he has a stab wound, I’ll just cover up the weapon wound by creating more blood by smashing his head in with a huge Rock!
More seriously though, not giving up the Harpy knife and being the last to kneel (seemingly reluctantly and he obviously had no deference) was speaking volumes to me.
He is a lot like a Wildling I think in that he likes to kneel to no one, most of all he wants the Masters dead, he killed the other Captains because they were going to fight on the side of the Masters and he wanted Dany to crush them. He still wants Dany to crush them and so it is feasible to me he’ll found the Harpies to prevent stability from forming so Dany is kept on a war footing
It just came to me why Jon is now reluctant to battle the Others. He knows there is no afterlife. Yet he has seen what the WW can do to the dead. Perhaps that is preferable to nothing at all? Let the Wall hold them back, go live your life. Sow your wild oats. Make some bastards. Go chill out with Sam in Oldtown. Then if the Others break through the Wall, go embrace the blue eyed afterlife.
Tormund,
What do we bother watching it for? Oh I don’t know, maybe because we’ve invested in the first 5 YEARS and want to see it through? On the whole I don’t care for season 6 so far, but that doesn’t mean I want to miss whatever good parts there are, or that I’m no longer curious how it ends.
Didn’t like: Dany being portrayed as a bad-ass, a leader or a queen seems too often to be a synonym for Dany burning people alive. And squinting her eyes.
Osha was gone too soon.
Loved: Stark reunion was awesome. I’ve been waiting it for so long and it hit all the right notes. Loved the pink letter.
I just think Margeary and Loras’ reunion was awesome. The way she read everybody and realised how broken Loras was. I’m excited to see what’s coming for the Tyrells.
Yeah personally I’m beginning to suspect Jons a bridge between Dany and the Others
dvc,
Yes I wouldn’t say Jon was bullied just slapped out of a sulky mood.
I’d also suggest caution. So often GOT goes with one hand then takes it way moments latter. Talisa and Rob planning a trip to see their mother in law didn’t go that well, nor did Shireen’s touching conversation with her father about being a princess and his daughter.
Just a small thought on that Bran vision in next weeks preview…
That looks like the tree that’s above the cave system where the 3EC and Bran are and with Meera trying to wake Bran, I’m guessing the White Wathers are already outside the entrance and that is how the Night-King can ‘see’ Bran..?
The issue there is the Boltons hold Moat Cailin, Vale Army is useless unless it gets North
Enter Howland Reed….(again)
I think I rewatched the Pink Letter scene like 10 times.
Torriene! Assertive Sansa! Sassy Jon (please don’t mope anymore)! Upset Tormund!
It will no doubt drop a bit over the next day but the episode rank on the stingy towerofthehand is currently 8.84. That’s almost as high as Hardhome. This indicates to me that those that hated this episode are really, really in the minority.
I forgot to talk about Tormund and Brienne, that was just hilarious.
Dorian,
I honestly think one of the big reasons they brought Osha back was to give some audience recognition to the Rickon storyline. If they only brought Rickon back, casual viewers might not remember him or his importance. Seeing him with Osha brings instant familiarity.
Jonsa reunion <3
Torriente <3
Brienne -i-fucking-kill-Stannis of Tarth *drops mic*
Yara and Theon.
Khalessi <3 ….. it seems so dramatic, i thought OMG she's gonna go all Carrie-like and burn them all…. it was cheesy but i like it.
Geralt of Rivia,
Why are you complaining about this? Did episode 5 already come out with a preview that stated X amount of days have passed? No right?
So why do you assume only X amount of time has passed between episodes? Can’t you just play along in your head that enough time has passed to have LF appear in CB?
People who complain about this stuff make me laugh. You know this is a fantasy show with dragons yet you nitpick about the passage of time not adding up correctly to your own assumed amount of time that passed between episodes?
Has the fanbase become this petty?
The fact that you are up at 4am whining like a bitch makes your life even more pathetic. Anything else you want to add? Like how your mother doesn’t let you out of the house at night?
Ghosts Lunch,
That sounds plausible and somehow can see it. Maybe the end is not good guys defeats bad guys. Rather a truce between them. Still wonder Jon’s purpose in this war. We have NK vs Daeny and dragons.
Arthur,
Even my mom who is only show watcher asked me this but nevermind. Should’ve known the reaction here.
Still wondering why is Brienne still with Sansa. General consensus was that Sansa will send her to look out for Arya.
Geralt of Rivia,
i would say that is a huge problema. You can t give dragons and fire magical powers to a characters and leave the rest hanging.
You can t have red priests everywhere in the fire side and only brand on the ice side.
The series is becoming too unbalenced.
Guys, someone already posted a Tormund/Brienne fanfiction in archiveofourown (AO3). That was fast!
Spoiler Speculations for future episodes (including book spoilers from ADWD).
But seeing how she’s with Littlefinger in the books, it looks like the Great Northern Conspiracy will fail to instil Rickon as King in the North and Littlefinger joins Jon Snow’s cause to take over Winterfell after the Bolton’s have weakened.
I don’t know where Brienne will fall in all of this, but given how she tried to save Jamie in the books and go against Lady Stonehearts orders because Cat lot her shit, she’s going to go against Sansa because Sansa loses her shit…
I’m probably wrong about most/all of this. lol
So, in the Episode 5 trailer,
This. Absolutely, 100%
Regardless of whatever people say, Danny has ALWAYS been fireproof in the show, scenes done in season 1 make this crystal-clear (and I’m taking about scenes done before the big fire in 1.10)
Oh, thanks for posting this. I didn’t remember that Jon also had a man bun during his goodbye scene with Arya.
It has ‘lost all meaning’ only to those who don’t agree with how it’s being applied. And that’s fine; we don’t have to agree on this.
Yes, I know what it means. If for no other reason, Dany is a classic Mary Sue because she has inborn superhuman skills and talents that she made no effort to learn or earn. Having a few weaknesses does not disqualify a character from being a Mary Sue.
Agreed. I also like that he was faltering of his purpose in the world because it allowed Sansa to be the proactive one. She was swaying him to her side and I liked that for her as a character.
I’d also expected Jon to come back and be all ‘fuck y’all. I’m gonna take back Winterfell somehow and then I’m going to fight the walkers’ But, I liked Jon being unsure and just lost. He’s obviously not listening to anything Mel’s saying. He doesn’t know why he’s back but he’s not gotten in his head that he came back to do all this PTWP that Mel’s prolly been talking about.
When Sansa shows up and when Ramsay’s letter comes, Jon’s got a purpose again. And, the whole dynamic between him and Sansa re: Winterfell worked a lot for me because I thought it only helped both characters and I didn’t think it undermined either of them.
How much did I love their reunion? I might have cried a bit.
i wonder is Sansa knows her brother came back from the dead… feels so trivial so soon. Maybe they’ll show Jon being changed but its like nothing happened.
Incidentally, that was a really good episode. Again, the Jon and Daeny parallels are intense: both are back from the dead in multiple ways, and both now have an army of savages behind them. The rewriting of the Pink Letter was very useful here, too: now it’s a tool for getting Jon (a.k.a., the new Prince that was Promised) back to being Jon. The phoenixes are arising….
I must admit, I marvel at what they have done with Sansa. I never could have imagined that the witless bimbo of the books could have any force of presence. Her demanding forgiveness from Jon was truly amusing but also enlightening. I have no idea if she’ll evolve into anything like this in the books, but I’m pleased to see it done here.
LF’s gamesmanship is quite impressive. Not only has he set it up so that the Vale now can attack the Boltons without fear of reprisal from the Lannisters, he has maneuvered the situation so that SweetRobyn now listens only to him. Of course, SweetRobyn (who seems to now be about 2 meters tall), seems to be bordering on a crazy as Ramsay….
My favorite part might have been Tyrion’s diplomatics in Meereen. This was the story in a nutshell: damned if you do, damned if you do not. His solution actually is a pretty good one: too bad that it won’t work.
Lol at the people who watch a fantasy show and then get pissy that there are fantasy elements in it.
And why does there have to be someone bitching about pandering to feminism every time a woman does something on this show? I guess TV is only supposed to pander to white dudes or something.
Pigeon,
Jon? That would be plain sad. Maisie mentioned that Arya will learn of his death and what if Many Faced God wants him back.
A couple scenes felt a little rushed and underdeveloped (esp. the Brienne/Davos/Melisandre scene). But overall, a fine episode, one which will remain a fan favorite for the Sansa-Jon reunion if nothing else.
The one thing that bothers, however, is how – aside from one brief urging by Edd at the very beginning – the threat of the White Walkers has dropped off the map entirely for the characters most concerned (i.e., the Night’s Watch and the Wildlings). They all know now what a dire threat is looming – an existential threat that could wipe out Westeros – and can’t have much confidence that the Wall will be an insuperable barrier.
This is especially salient with Jon, who knows the danger better than anyone. It would be one thing for him to simply despair of defeating them. “I’ll go South – where the Walkers can’t reach. I’ve tried and failed. To hell with it.” Or if they were factored into the decision to take out Ramsay. “We have to unite the north before the Army of the Dead attacks, and we can only do that once we’ve destroyed the Bolton army.” The threat to Rickon, to Sansa, to the Wildlings is all well and good as motivator for all concerned (and they handled reworking the Pink Letter effectively without Mance being involved), but it’s strange that the Walkers don’t even come in for a mention beyond Edd’s comment.
But the reality is, they really *do* have to eliminate Ramsay and consolidate the North if they’re to have any hope of stopping the Walkers. And they need to do it quickly, because time is running out.
davyJones,
Sansa obviously had gotten at least a basic run-down of what happened. She knew that the Wildlings owed their lives to Jon. How much detail she knows is not clear: but, then, all that is important is that she understand the basics.
He has to come back. We haven’t seen part 2 of TOJ yet. LOL.
So the “Bran learns a great deal” in ep5 doesn’t pertain to the TOJ but to the WW. Hmmmnn… now I wonder if we’ll get TOJ p.2 this season. After all, there was no news about the casting of young adult Lyanna. I hope I’m wrong!
Oh, and Dragonriding is happening people; Daario just called dibs on riding a Dragon in this episode. We all know as a general rule D&D don’t bring up stuff up unless it’s happening in the show later on…
dvc,
I agree with you and it’s disheartening. It does seem forced and that takes me out of the suspension of disbelief that is required for a show such as this. I don’t at all care for how blasé Jon is being or how hard nosed Yara acted. I have not watched it all yet so I haven’t seen Dany scenes. I’d be lying if I said wasn’t disappointed so far. Something is off, some of it dialogue, some pacing, and sorry but we needed to see the foes reacting to Jon’s rez and/or more dialogue between him and Mel. Also to be perfectly honest I’m not on board the girl-power express. IN a different sort of show/movie sure but in this medieval fantasy genre I don’t like it. Not as interesting.
I want a scene where Jon and Sansa go on a pub crawl and try out all the ale in Westeros. Someone write this fanfiction, please.
Lol at some of the negativity.
The same crowd upset at Dany being fireproof, bring up GRRM’s remarks about a one-time event, are probably the SAME crowd who wanted Jesus Jon to walk out of a funeral pyre.
GRRM never said Dany wasn’t immune to fire. He said Targaryens weren’t immune ALL the time. He left space in there for an immune Targ some of the time. And Dany being immune doesn’t mean it’s because she’s a Targaryen, maybe she’s just a special case. There’s nothing wrong with that. Bran is a special case isn’t he? I don’t see complaints that he’s too powerful.
wasn’t there a casting call for a “young stunner” – that could be an adult Lyanna, or was that for the child Lyanna? Sue, could you remind us?
Wimsey,
Told you that Pink Letter will make it to the show and not Ramsay by using force. It seems more and more likely Umbers are with Boltons for real thanks to wildlings as you rightly pointed out long before they revealed it. He’s acting smartly here. As for parallels not really. Sansa/Jon conversation was really nice. All in all my favourite episode.
Not read many comments, so I don’t know what the popular consensus is, but I thought that was a great episode. Perhaps not quite as good as last week which I loved (more than most), but the time flew by. The only scenes which dragged a little were the Kings Landing ones, but only because I wanted to get back to the places I loved.
Fucking loved Sansa and Dany. Both powerful and strong characters.
Sad to see Osha go, but it was inevitable really. She was a valueless prisoner, so she either had to die or escape (which would have been a little too convenient for me). It is sad to see these great characters depart, but we’re entering the endgame now, so get used to it folks!
Her being unable to liberate Slavers Bay, her arc for the entire series, is not a “few weaknesses.” She has had two goals the entire series, take her throne in Westeros and end Slavery in Slavers Bay. She has accomplished neither of them. For 6 seasons.
And you are wrong about her not having to learn how to use her skill. This is the FIRST TIME all series that she has used her skill of not being burnt, to accomplish a goal. She learned to speak Dothraki, she learned about the rules of Vaes Dothrak, she learned how to read the Dothraki men, and used all of that to work together a plan that involves her skill.
Clearly you do not understand what a classic Mary Sue is.
Yeah, Stannis and Mance are probably in some pub in White Harbour laughing their asses off that we fell for it.
But Tyrion being the shrewd politician that he is knows there is value in trying for peace even if you know war is inevitable. Then, just like Lincoln with Fort Sumter, you can maneuver the enemy into firing the first shot and galvanize your own side with righteousness in the struggle to come. And surely, there will be war in Slaver’s Bay, but Tyrion has put the decision into the hands of the slavers.
Sir Imp hand Strong,
I’m up because I have to go to work soon. You know, some people work, not just leech off of their families. Fuckyouverymuch for judging a complete stranger.
What’s with people saying this season is paced back? The lack of sword fights means stories are MOVING this is so much more exciting than i anticipated, we just had one hell of a STARK REUNION. Does anyone else think Jon will follow in Theon’s footsteps and let his sister do the ruling after they conquer winterfell and save Rickon? I totally just jinxed that. Damn. I actually think Arya will kill Jon, I am recalling Melisandre in like season 2 or 3 saying that Arya would close blue eyes, brown eyes, green eyes, and Dolorus Edd clearly pointed out Jon’s brown eyes in the last episode. Did i just jinx that too? I hope so that would suck. That high sparrow is a hell of a talker. Glad to see Margery isn’t broken.
Number of times this season a “shocking” death has occurred just from someone straight up stabbing the other person: 3 (Roose, Doran, Osha)
Number of times this season a character has plunged a knife in the back of another person to “unexpectedly” save the day: 4 (Howland, Theon, Daario, Obara)
Just an example of the lack of creativity in the story telling this season 🙁
weirwoodtreehugger,
a woman?
The sand snakes overthrowned the rulers of dorne.
margeary is all peachy and loras is ready to die! because of light torture…
Sasha is all ready to be the queen of the iron lands.
Danny just subjugated all dothriaki with firepowers and has dragons.
Cersei manipulates Jaime and tommen and with olena controlled the small council.
Brienne is invencibel.
Sansa just bossed jon around.
All this in 4 eps!!! FOUR EPS! don t you see some trend here?
El-Bobbie,
Remember in Dance with Dragon sh gets burned when she goes to Drogon in the fighting pits, losses her hair but doesn’t die
Why would you assume that? I would say exactly the opposite. Some viewers want big boffo setpieces and use the word ‘epic’ a lot. Others prefer more subtlety and nuance.
He was going to burn down his own poor subjects. She’s killing a bunch of men who are debating between sentencing her to a lifetime prison or gang raping her to death…and chose gang raping her to death.
Flame on, Dany!
Emilia Clarke said that was her body nude in the final scene, no body doubles. She talks about that here:
http://comicbook.com/2016/05/16/game-of-thrones-emilia-clarke-says-no-body-double-for-nude-scene/
“Young stunner for two scenes, one of them with a twist”
That was the casting notice for Lyanna (obviously they weren’t going to mention her name in it.)
Hmm this Inside the Episode-y video may contain minor Tyrell-related spoilers, oopsies!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1mNnO4m8zg
Wimsey,
“all that is important is that she understand the basics.”
Did we even see her get that? Too many things are being left up to assumption. They are telling a story, they need to show characters getting certain information they need in order for us to have payoff and identify with their motivations as the story progresses. This is important part of storytelling.
Indeed, it is almost oxymoronic to call a character written by a man a Mary Sue because one of the primary characteristics is that an MS is the authoress inserting herself into a story for some sort of wish-fulfillment!
The closest analog would be Tyrion, who GRRM seems to invested more of his own self than any other character. But even that is a bit different.
Overall a great episode. Jon and Sansa gave major feels. I thought I was being clever with my #Torienne. I am pleased to see I am not the only one. Dany…She won not just a Khalasar, but all of Vaes Dothrak. ….Like a Boss! Nathalie Emmanuel continues to enchant..♥
The North Remembers!
No it is not. Story telling is not like a mathematical proof where redundancy in syllogisms is necessary. Sansa knows that the Wildlings owe Jon. From this, it necessarily follows that she learned about it. That is all we need to know. If they had shown her hearing this, and then later shown her bringing it up again, then they would have been justifiably criticized for being redundant.
Or, as someone else put it, brevity is the soul of wit.
I loved the episode, most especially the Castle Black parts! I could watch them again and again and again.
I must say, though, who knew dirt floors could be so flammable as the floor in Vaes Dothrak? Was that petroleum dirt? Wow. Don’t throw stones in a house made of glass, and don’t light fires in a temple made from petroleum.
Connor,
Question is, is it all her from season 1 episode 10 just CGI’d in?
How many times does it need to be repeated? The Faceless Men are never assigned to go after those they know personally. That’s a rule they don’t break. And if ever they requested that of Arya, she’d tell them to gtfo and would leave. There’s nothing to this. Another nonsensical tinfoil.
Ginevra,
I know if I hatched that plot, and I pushed over those fire things, absolutely nothing would happen.
That’s sort of Level One Mary Suism, as it first developed in the world of fanfic, and that’s what I used to think it meant. I have since discovered through online research that the term is used more broadly nowadays, both with female and male authors.
Ravyn,
I stand corrected on Emila’s policy.
I am still amused by the idea of using previous images of the same actress with the body-double tech, particularly in a scene that was meant to be a callback. Perhaps I’ll construct a better joke after a full nights sleep.
Huh? There’s this speculation? This reunion might not even happen in the books. She’s safely at the Vale getting ready to be married off to some noble guy while Jon is marching towards WF. Although, come to think of it, maybe the Vale army will indeed join Jon against the Boltons in the book (like what looks like will happen on the show). Maybe that’s how Sansa will return to WF.
Ginevra,
This is an easy fix.
One can just assume the pyres also had an oil-like gasoline type liquid in them, like the same stuff you soak cloth in and wrap around a stick to make a torch.
Lets just say, this same type of fluid was in those pyres that Dany throw over and that is what caused the place to go up in flames so fat.
I concur. Dunno what they expect, but I can anticipate that what is coming as we close out the show apparently won’t please them one bit.
Yeah.
#masculinitysofragile
Keep crying, it’s funny.
CatspawAssassin,
Or maybe you could look at the dog breeds a little closer… the hounds that tracked Theon and Sansa were bloodhounds, not known as aggressive fighters. I couldnt quite tell what breed the dogs that Ramsey set on Walda and Lil’ Bolton were.. looked like big dobermans… a breed used as attack dogs. Just sayin.
RIP Tonks/Osha! And Jansa scene made me cry *tsk *tsk
Indeed! I would say, isn’t it bizarre and wrong that this isn’t already the case?
Was she taking a little shot at Lena Headey by gleefully gloating about not using a double?
I want to say that the final scene inside the hut was a bit cheesy, but the subsequent look on Emilia Clarke’s face more than made up for it. Fire and Blood, baby. Conqueror Dany is back in play. No more mercy. No more appeasement.
oklahope,
That would explain how the hut burned so quickly. My theory was that there was a scene where Darrio the Dos Khaleen doused the hut in gasoline before the meeting that was left on the cutting room floor.
I loved it. The Jon & Sansa reunion was even more powerful for me because their prior relationship was distant, at best. She didn’t like him because his very existence sullied the reputation of her family, of her father, and he was broody and standoffish, and Sansa always wanted/expected everyone to be pleasant. Jon didn’t like her because she behaved with a haughty superiority and always pointed out his bastardy, and that was his most sensitive insecurity. So they didn’t spend time together, didn’t get along, didn’t even really speak to one another, and suddenly after years of hell and loss and grief and torment, this symbol of relatively happy, care-free days is standing there, the first solid link to the past and to family and perhaps the hope that all is not lost. Yet.
I also loved Sansa’s passionate pursuit of home, family, revenge. However, I am sick of people saying you have to have balls to be assertive or badass. I know it is a figure of speech, but I want to correct it. Sansa doesn’t have balls, she has a VAGINA. An awesome, badass VAGINA.
I know people are frustrated with the pace of the KL storyline, but I think that’s part of the point. The scene with Pycelle slowly shuffling out of the room was hilarious—we had to wait like they had to wait; the same could be said for the scene in Mereen with Tyrion and Missandai/Grey Worm last week (was it last week?). Many people said it was awkward, painfully so, and I think it was supposed to be. Sometimes form follows content. Tyrion is obviously uncomfortable, desperate to pass the time in a tense moment, trying to get to know these taciturn people who refuse to open up to him. We suffer the awkwardness of the scene just as he does.
Dany gets a lot of big final scenes, and I’ve hated some of them, but I liked this one a lot. I was also worried that she’d be rescued, either by Daario/Jorah or Drogon or all of the above, but I was totally into telling these Khals the way shit was gonna go down. Regarding one of the complains, yes, structures burn quickly onscreen. People are also strangled to death in 20 seconds instead of 2-4 minutes, and somehow slitting someone’s throat is an instant kill. That is because if they showed these things in real time, people would go fucking crazy and impatiently change the channel. I am more concerned about what was in those braziers—fucking napalm? Damn. Still, whatever, the point was that Dany used her own agency and badassery and had the VAGINA to tell these men of all men that they were small, unambitious, and dead.
Now let’s go read the 200 comments posted while I was writing this. Yay.
Jon,Sansa, and Arya love triangle. Am I crazy? Jon loves redheads, so in the end he’d wind up choosing Sansa and just being friends with Arya. Sansa and Jon replenish the Stark bloodline and ensure there are future lords of Winterfell with the last name of Stark.
That’s what we thought, Sansa, all but Wimsey, until Smalljon proved us wrong.
Wimsey,
It need not be redundant though. What does she think of his having been murdered and come back from the dead? That’s kind of an important thing yet it’s been pushed aside in their reunion scene. I have to assume she knows why he’s no longer Lord commander the NW without seeing her reaction. There are some things that are necessary to have assumption of otherwise there’d be TOO much boring conversation time yes but others I like to see play out, it’s all personal opinion on what parts one wants an dw hich ones they’d expet and enjoy seeing on scree. Damn this compter. 600 bucks and it won’t type words out proper?!
You don’t think it unneccesary Sansa apologize how she treat Jon as kids? They didn’t even show her being mean to him in the show.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
No.
And how else would you have them kill people in this world? It is largely down to jabbing people with pointy things.
As for the creativity, it might be better to focus on the story than on the trivial plot details. And right now, we are getting an intriguing story about the price of creating allies and followers. We are getting a well-done motif about the main characters rising from their own ashes. And we are getting a well-done motif about the lies behind the stories. Focus on that rather than “creative” ways to see people die!
Hrmmm… feathers, hawks, warging…. just a thought.
Firannion,
That’s an extremely stupid division. I, for one, enjoyed both the demurity of Jon’s resurrection and the sheer, unapologetic, in-your-face, triumphancy of Dany’s return. Different strokes for different characters!
Also, that look on her face. I love it. Can totally relate – I had a similar one the (regrettably few) times in my life I destroyed my enemies.
Yes, he was especially pleasant when telling her she’d be raped until she died, including by his horses. I bet she feels super guilty.
😉
Nymeria the wolf,
But she was channeling Stannis! That’s what made the comment so funny! LMAO
CatspawAssassin,
Those were bloodhounds. Totally harmless compared to the actual attack dogs he used back in Season 4 and later in Season 6. They’re not dangerous, and when off leash generally run off.
weirwoodtreehugger,
so that is your argument? brilliant…
If each basket had several dozen gallons of petrol-like fluid, yes, but they didn’t look that large.
If so, then so is dividing viewers up into the ‘Dany fans’ versus the ‘Jon fans,’ as some seem determined to do. We each like what we like and don’t like what we don’t like. No need to get all polarized about it.
Yara/Theon gave me goosebumps! Brienne telling hard truths made me 80’s fist pump! I was so happy but so sad to see Loras. Finn gave a great emotional performance in such a small scene. Jon/Sansa, what can I say? What a relief!
Oshaaaa!!! I saw it coming but again goddamit Ramsay!! >o<
The only thing I noticed that niggled at me slightly was the way Dany tipped over the fire braziers. Maybe it was just the camera angle but I feel as though it could have had more umph. I mean the outcome was pretty powerful! But I feel like her physical motions to knock them over could have been more dramatic. Just a super small thing I thought of, no biggie. REALLY good episode!!
I wasn’t the only one! And I suspect that Northerners that do not suffer from Wildling problems (or that suffer from fewer Wildling problems) will join the Stark side. The problem for the Starks is that this probably is not many of them. (The Bear Islanders definitely are an exception; the Glovers might be, too.)
It is redundant if it is mentioned more than once in an episode. As for what Sansa thinks of Jon being murdered and being brought back, how much she knows of those details probably is not important to story or plot, and it does not do much to develop the relationship of the two principal characters.
But we now know that she was. And, yes, that was important in two ways. First, they never showed the two of them interacting in the show. So, they have to tell us what their relationship was like. Second, it showed us Sansa discarding another part of her former self. The forging of alliances and bonds is important to this season’s story. We basically have just seen Sansa both compromise and command: and that is good dynamic development. And it helps set up Jon’s rebound: we see Jon remember what it was like to have family (the bad and the good), and although it’s not enough then and there, it’s a start.
Ginevra,
Those pyres look like they are pretty deep and can hold a good amount. I am just trying to give you way to justify the fire burning so fast and intensely so you could enjoy the scene a little more, that’s all…
They have stripped Jon and Arya off a magical ability (warging), but made Bran and Daenerys superhuman. That sucks. And Ghost is back to being non-existent.
Jack Bauer 24,
This episode is fire so far!
Wow, you posted this about half an hour before the ep ended. Talk about prophetic words!
Wall Builder,
Thanks, I hadn’t thought of it that way. I have a bad feeling about this…
Yeah, replacing Mance with Rickon and the Washer Women with Shaggy Dog probably is much more powerful for the general audience.
But the list of fan/conspiracy theories that have bit the dust so far this season is getting to be quite long!
Wimsey,
I’m focusing on that too and it’s been a let down for me. To each their own.
Arthur,
Thanks, Arthur. It is fantasy. I will let it ride. I did like the scene, regardless. I liked the echoes of Jon’s resurrection here, as others have said. When Ice Spider and I were watching, I think I even said, “They think you’re a fooking god,” while the Dothraki were kneeling.
Critical thinking with something to back it up is one thing. “Cut it out of the show, no one likes it” its another.
Yes, I noticed that too! Is there any lore in the books about circles of standing stones, like Stonehenge, being doorways to other places? One of the upcoming episodes is called “The Door” right?
lord of blogfell,
That seemed to be the point to me. She’s not a ruler, she’s not humble…but she IS a conquerer. That’s what she does, and she does it well.
You seem like an angry person. Obviously it means something to her, whoever it is. And she very well may tell them to gtfo, based on the spoilers. Settle down.
Seems like we keep crossing out options for the flayed, burning bodies on the crosses before the battle. Pre-season guesses of Stannis, Roose, Walda, and Osha have all pretty much been put to rest. Sue said
The trailers showed Tormond fighting in the battle, so it’s not him. And the trailers also appear to show Davos at the battlesite, watching the crosses burn. Set Leaks suggest
I think Edd is going to be one of the bodies, but I honestly don’t know how or who else would be joining him.
Firannion,
I’m glad that you agree with me.
I’m amazed at how many people would have preferred a Drogon’s ex machina over that truly great scene where Dany regains power and confidence by herself, for herself !
I love what they decided to do with Jon post-rez: not to make him ‘badass’ and vengeance-obsessed, but just dispirited and tired of constantly fighting – the way real people who’ve been sent to war tend to end up feeling, once they’ve discovered that it’s not the glamorous, exciting life that the recruitment PR campaign makes it out to be, but rather a grinding horror. Reminds me a bit of my own brother, a Vietnam veteran who refused ever to pick up a gun again after he got out, even when he lived in a Red State where men who don’t own guns have their masculinity constantly questioned.
I also love that Sansa has finally, FINALLY started to become decisive and proactive. Soooo tired of her being a perpetual victim. I thought that the tone of their reunion was lovely. Her insisting that he acknowledge that she’d not treated him so well when they were kids: That was priceless. She’s done with pretense; she’s like, ‘Let’s just cut to the chase and do what needs to be done.’ And I loved them being able to laugh together, just grinning at each other because they can. Really sweet and satisfying.
I teared up too. Loved seeing them laugh (especially Jon). Loved their talk.
Sansa: Where will you go?
Jon: Where will WE go? If I don’t watch out for you your father’s ghost will come back and murder me.
You betcha he would, Jon Snow! 🙂
1) So Brienne, Davos and Mel are all good now…or not?
2) Dany now has a lot more mouths to feed
3) 2,000 wildlings doesn’t seem like enough.
4) Cersei trial eta? Feels like training with Yoda. Master Yoda, we are ready for the trial.
5) So Ramsay did know about Osha (generally). He really should have tested Smalljon more. And Osha was referring to Thenns not Skagos.
6) I think Dany’s new friend may have helped with some lighter fluid.
7) Theon, when Yara keeps saying you’re dead, the custom is to say, “What is dead may never die.”
8) Daario with his dagger(s)? a small win for readers.
9) I think Edd has a right to be mad at Jon and want to keep LC.
10) It would appear that LF does indeed have northern sources.
Bonus on the next GoT…
Please. Please. Please. Will D&D at least make a joke about the frequent flyer miles LF is collecting?
LatrineDiggerBrian,
I totally disagree with virtually everything you say about the show this season, but that just makes you more interesting to me. I support your right to be underwhelmed.
I know that people have a kneejerk reaction to people show criticism, especially since the first season’s posts were obsessive arguments about Ghost barking or Dany not having violet eyes, the second season’s posts still nitpicking but a little less, the third a little less, etc., and nowadays the purists here have calmed down for the most part.
But disliking the way a scene/episode played is definitely not the same thing as hating things because they’re different from the book. I adore this season thus far, but your difference of perspective gives me the opportunity to examine ideas and events in another way, so I thank you for that.
🙂
Seriously? Jon just went through literally the most traumatic thing one can go through. He wants to be done with fighting…it’s not being a coward, it’s being human. Anyone who has seen as much death and horror as Jon has seen would have a breaking point…he just finally reached his. He needs that push from Sansa, but that doesn’t mean she’s ‘bossing him around’. She’s the one who is bringing him back to himself…reminding him of who he is and what he’s fighting for.
Do you have the pic?
Ginevra,
Yeah lol…
Dany and Jon seem to be going toe to toe this season. The two saga heros are really gaining momentum and power. It’s so exciting, I hope it never ends.
If HBO doesn’t do a spinoff when GoT ends it really should be considered and entertainment industry crime.
Also! One last comment!
I’m so going to have Mhysa on repeat today, in the gym and while swimming, and elsewhere: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK78w86BOQ8 .
Osha god dangit! She was so close to being a heroine 🙁 Didn’t want her to die.
I still am leaning towards this. I have long suspected that Ramsay would sack Castle Black (or have it sacked by his men) trying to get his bride back. But, then, I have suspected that this would be the setup for how the Walkers get through the Wall since I read the Pink Letter in Dragons.
Well, what did you expect the story to be this year? It really could not have been too much different from this. We are starting the final act, and sides are more important than ever: and the cost of creating sides is one aspect of internal conflict that has not been a story so far.
I was laughing at the ending because it felt like I was watching the climax of the movie CARRIE- her locking everyone in the gymnasium and burning them alive, then walking out unharmed (but not nude). 🙂
Yeah. Someone said upthread something to the effect that he was wimping out, overreacting to being lightly tortured. I’m not sure that’s what’s going on. I think he’s in a deep state of depression – perhaps as much over the death of Renly as anything else. He has certainly had a surfeit of time to think about it of late, and no entertaining distractions like Olyvar. Saying over and over ‘Just make it stop’ is typical of people with severe depression who are having suicidal ideation. I’m thinking that Loras will throw his life away for the first reasonably good excuse he gets (paralleling Jorah, I suspect).
Besides the North and Wall, most of the storylines are mediocre. There is way too much wheel spinning going on. I guess that shouldn’t come as a surprise, since it is the same in the most recent book. I wish Essos never existed; it is filled with terrible locations and supporting characters. Not even Tyrion and Varys can save it.
Jansa 2016 its happening so awesome. Sansa grabs his hand and he melts like… Snow? Ha!
I haven’t read the thread, and I am not going to! Excellent episode. 😀 Loved, loved, loved Daenerys finally taking charge, and destroying the Khal male supremacy of the Dothraki, with no Drogon in sight yet. I know he’ll come to Mom soon enough, but he’s just chilling somewhere waiting for her to take the lead. Absolutely gorgeous last scene.
I liked the other parts of the episode too; overall a vast improvement over the last one.
Show Daenerys is fire-proof.
I enjoyed the ending very much, but “Dany Sue” was a witty line, just the same. 🙂
Great episode. Loved the Stark reunion. My god Dany is the worst
I hate to say it, but I think we’re going to see the last of Ser Jorah in episode six.
But on the bright side, at least he got to see his dream babe in her birthday suit one more time.
😉
What I like is that we seem to have uneasy allies and agreements in both major camps right now. In Meereen, we also have the former slaves being very upset about Tyrion being willing to compromise in any way with Slavers: despite the fact that the slavers are not liking this “compromise.” Add to this the Jorah vs. Daario division, and the addition of a Red Priestess next week, and it seems that both Jon and Daeny will have people behind them who do not like other people behind them. (We probably will see more of this with the Mormants and any other Northerners who side with Sansa & Jon despite the Wildlings.)
I do wish that Tyrion had said to Give Peace a Chance, however……
How about neither Drogon ex machina nor fireproof Dany? It’s not as if those were the only two ways it could’ve gone.
I’m curious as to what other options would have been satisfying?
How have they made Jon “soft”? Because he feels the despair of having failed his men by taking actions they were so opposed to they felt they had no choice but to murder him? Because, having been murdered by his men, having come back to life, he finds it all rather pointless? Because he is tired of fighting? Because he was happy to see his sister? Because he hanged the traitors instead of chopping off their heads? What is it?
All of these things make him seem human to me, not soft. Strength isn’t always in the fight or the battle or in stoic dedication. It takes strength to be vulnerable. It takes strength to say what’s true instead of what’s easy. It takes strength to admit defeat. The typical fantasy trope might be that strength is the unyielding hero who wins by virtue of his honor and pursuit of right, but GoT is very anti-fantasy in this way.
Sorry, but “soft” is definitely not the way I think of Jon. Broken, perhaps. In crisis, definitely. But those things don’t mean weak or soft or done. They are potential for growth and transformation.
Daniellica,
Well I thank you for that as well. I have not disliked everything about this season, there has been plenty I’ve liked too. There was stuff I liked about episode 4 even. Just overall, I’m just as passionate about the show as you guys are, and it just isn’t doing it for me for whatever reason. Or at least it’s not up to the level it has been in previous season imo. That’s been really depressing for me.
Firannion,
I’m starting to come around to Jon’s psyche post resurrection. In a season where people are complaining about lack of surprises, this is truly a surprise for me. After 5 years of debating how he would change, most seemed to think he would come back more determined and more feral after, presumably, spending time melded into Ghost’s mind. Not many thought he would come back more cautious and a lack of desire to continue fighting. We’ll see how things play out, but I can’t see him completely abandoning the war against the Others. Hopefully he tries to sell the Northern lords on the threat beyond the Wall in the coming weeks, and uses it as a reason to remove the Boltons from power.
What a brilliant episode… Just watched it twice on Sky Atlantic.
Have skimmed though this now monumental thread and interesting to see some of the poster’s comments before the show aired were pretty accurate, but others way off course. I seldom speculate and take it as it comes.
I never expected the reunion between Sansa and Jon in this episode, but great to have seen that happen. The scenes at The Wall were good as was Dany’s stuff at the end, proving again she really is ‘The Unburnt’ and now has the weight of the Dothraki behind her. Ah, and good to see Dany’s boobs again! They were for real and not CGI’d as one poster may have thought 😉
The Kings Landing scenes with Cersi and Jamie gaining the support of Lady Olenna and the Tyrell’s to put the Sparrows out of business was clever! As was Tyrion’s plan for the slave masters of Astapor and Yunkai to abolish slavery, but think that idea will fail.
Sorry and sad to see Osha bow out in this episode. I thought she would have more scenes in this season.
As for these prize wankers who say its ‘not canon’ – I can’t see how it can be unless GRRM has leaked scripts of TWoW onto the net! I recommend they creep back to westeros.org to suck up the asses of Elio and Linda were their comments will be warmly welcomed !
Daniellica,
I thought the whole rape threat thing was a bit overblown this episode. Even hackneyed. Ramsay to Sansa and Khal Moro to Dany. It loses its power if you use it all the time. And it becomes off-putting.
I also don’t get the whole bit w Tyrion gifting the masters with whores. Unless he has some secret plan I don’t see the point. And in the same episode the HS equates women with wine and food. They are things to be passed around and exchanged or gifted. All over this episode. Which disappointed me.
Of course I still love the show and liked the episode. just not my fave episode, despite being an awesome story. I always expect so much when D&D write an episode. It’s hard to consistently live up to the hype.
Firannion,
Kamali,
There is a brand of women who just can’t seem to be able to stomach other women unapologetically winning.
I was just able to finish watching and whoo boy ok that Dany scene made me like her again 🙂 Although a little cheesy but well, at least we know she’s getting interesting! Ladies and gents, I bieve we’ve had our AAR and PtwP identified finally.
Tormund ‘s in love! I hope Brienne takes a liking to him. It will be great dialogue!
Wimsey,
To me it’s just been more bad dialogue than usual and less clever plotting. Plain and simple. You can argue all day that you think it’s the opposite, but in the end it’s a matter of opinion. I can’t change how I feel. I’m share when I rewatch the episode I’ll come down off of the ledge a bit.
re tyrions plans: at first I thought he must have some underhanded plan to lull the masters into a false sense of security. But now I’m wondering if he is just making a mistake. It seems that Littlefinger made one with Ramsay. Maybe this is a new trend where we find all the great plotters are human. And mortal.
Not everything has to be world changing for the overall story. Jorah having greyscale is part of his arc. It will effect him as a character and the people around him, that’s important enough. I highly doubt it will effect Westeros as a whole (in the books or the show), mainly because it would just be overkill. There is enough stuff going on already, we don’t need a greyscale epidemic in Westeros, one that would come pretty much out of the left field btw. Yes, greyscale is infectious and dangerous, but it clearly isn’t the black death turned to 12 or else a) far more people in Essos would have it and b) Daario would have run for the hills as soon as he that knew Jorah has it.
How about Dany learning how to persuade people other than by force, like Tyrion is so adept at doing? How about rallying the Dosh Khaleen by urging them to use their influence, acting in solidarity, appealing to their self-interest? They didn’t have to put her in a situation where the choice was limited to a) get gang-raped or b) do magic or c) have a dragon conveniently show up.
Using one’s superpowers is just not a satisfying dramatic solution to a problem, for me – more like a comic-book solution. (And it’s not truly comparable to what happened to Jon, because he didn’t do that by himself; he seems as baffled about it as anybody else.)
I hope so! Most of us here were speculating TOJ p.2 will be in ep5. But, it will make more sense if it’s an ep10 reveal. It’s too big of a plot twist to get smacked in the middle of the season. And maybe, right after that scene, Howland Reed would appear in WF (yep, my dream ending for ep9 is that the Starks get back WF) looking for Jon to tell him something. 🙂
Guys Dany has literally been immune to heat since she got in the bath at Pentos in the first episode of season 1. “Fire cannot kill a dragon.”
Not everything has to be world changing for the overall story. Jorah having greyscale is part of his arc. It will effect him as a character and the people around him, that’s important enough. I highly doubt it will effect Westeros as a whole (in the books or the show), mainly because it would just be overkill. There is enough stuff going on already, we don’t need a greyscale epidemic in Westeros, one that would come pretty much out of the left field btw. Yes, greyscale is infectious and dangerous, but it clearly isn’t the black death turned to 12 or else a) far more people in Essos would have it and b) Daario would have run for the hills as soon as he that knew Jorah has it. 🙂
Ciello,
The hawk gift from LG seemed to be paying attention…. and Sansa seems to be partial to feathers….
Danielle Stark,
OMG I can see her dirty pillows. I said the same thing. I did not like how that scene turned out. Camp.
“It’s time we joined the frey.” – Littlefinger
More like join the Frey.
Why wouldn’t Walder Frey join Baelish? With Roose dead, so is his best ally in the North, and with the red wedding making unpopular with most riverlanders, he needs friends, even ones like Littlefinger.
Jon Snow, Wildlings, and Umbers (I believe) from the North, Freys and The Vale from the South. Ramsay’s days are numbered. I also wouldn’t rule out the Umbers writing that letter instead of Ramsay to lure Snow’s help, and Sansa being in on it – Last Hearth is between Winterfell and Castle Black. Sansa was awfully sure about Ramsay having killed Roose and them definitely having Rickon with no evidence.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Maybe you should refrain from broadcasting your initial reactions, then, because you
LatrineDiggerBrian,
I’ll be honest right now, maybe you should refrain from posting about the show until you’ve had a 24 hours digestion. Every single episode this season, you have complained, then “upon reflection/sleep/a muffin/a rewatch”, you always come back and say you overreacted. So when you preface your nonspecific knee jerk criticisms of the show with, “I love the show as much as you guys”, I personally don’t believe it.
Or ignore me, it’s what my son does. Either way.
Just watched it again, and enjoyed it even more. Aside from the stuff I liked before (everything at Castle Black with Jon/Sansa, Yara/Theon’s Eugene O’Neill family reunion moment, and Dany’s climactic torching of the Dothraki), the Essos stuff with Tyrion played better for me, especially the disagreements with Grey Worm. I’m still kinda bummed that Osha was only back for that one scene. Natalie Tena really does a good job with that character,and it would’ve been nice to see more of her. But I did like that Ramsay took the knife he killed her with, cleaned it off, and returned to peeling the apple. Nice touch.
Looking around Twitter and early reviews, the response seems to be pretty rapturous. Lots of people saying this was the best of the season, so far.
Very well said. They pulled the rug out from under the audience’s very conventional expectations of the hero becoming more macho under stress. Instead he becomes more…complicated. Bravo for that!
jane taylor,
Not listening. Nope. Brienne is sworn to Jaime. She has to save him from Cersei. Then they can go live the rest of their lives on Tarth sparring and making japes at each other. She will adopt Tommen and let him have as many kittens as he wants. Margaery can come with, and she and Bri can reminisce about Renly and become sisters.
So that’s a no to “Torienne”.
She tried to persuade them with gifts of horses. She failed. She’s not Tyrion. She appealed to one of the Dosh Khaleen in this episode, and used her to help with the plan. So what you say she should have done in that regard, she did do.
So in all situations, using an ability is a never satisfying solution to a problem? Arya warging to help with her blind problem wasn’t satisfying in the book? Bran warging to help solve a problem is never satisfying dramatically?
I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree about that.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Is it bad that I’m for this?
LL of Avalon,
(Gift from LF…not LG… sorry.)
Firannion,
I’m pretty sure Loras is being deprived of food & water (just shy of killing him) in addition to being beaten, under those circumstances anyone would break and beg for the end of the torture.
Margery is a stronger person, mentally. I don’t believe she has suffered the same level of privation & physical abuse as her brother, so she is definitely gaming the system.
Why do I foresee
You’re one of the fucking prize wankers I mentioned! What ‘canon destroying’ ending? There is NO CANON which the TV series can be compared against until GRRM gets of his ass and finishes TWoW and fuck knows when that will happen,
Firannion,
This! Dany gets yet another army just because she happens to be magic, the only character in the entire series to be so. That’s why I find it hard to truly root for her.
However, knowing how this was always going to go down, I thought it was a strong scene. Atleast there was no Drogon ex-machina and it was Dany’s own doing.
As always, the Wall scenes were the strongest for me. Sansa and jon reuniting, her running to hug him ,the look on his face as he sees her, it gave me the feels!
Also I am totally shipping Tormienne. Overall, I enjoyed the episode. So far, it’s 3 and 4>2>1 for me.
Regarding the preview for ep 5, again no Jon. Wtf…do they still feel the need to hide him in these previews. Once again, I guess we will have to wait for the actual episode to get any confirmation of his presence. And how does Sansa meet LF? Does that mean she leaves Jon and Co? But since we already know, from the trailer, that she will be in Bear Island, as will Davos and hopefully, Jon, does that mean she then rejoins them? I am confused lol.
Also Bran and the NK!!!
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Hello Kitty Island Adventure: Tarth edition?
Firannion,
you mean like what she was doing with unsullied at Astopor .,or at freed men at yunkai and at meereen ..
you do realize that tyrion is basically doing what dany was doing in ADWD .
never mind though i know what will be the response when it comes to slaversbay
Firannion,
No “complicated” just dull lol. At least so far, but it’s still early yet!
I already miss old Jon and his confident airs and tousled hair 🙂
Lyanna_Targaryen,
You could have made that 2 coffee tables in Arizona getting flipped over, Lyanna.
Luckily for us, the coffee tables remained upright throughout the entire episode.
ghost of winterfell,
if you mean by army you mean the old and weak and women dothraki that followed dany in the red waste ..then yes its sad
Alright here’s my last comment on this site, which I used to love and enjoy. I’ll still visit here to read the articles and updates but I’m no longer reading the comments. First thing I do after watching that incredible, uplifting episode is come on this site to be let down by the rather peculiar level of insane scrutinizing to the point where it’s really silly. Like holy crap. And fine, people can criticise but THAT’S ALL EVERYONE IS DOING. No discussion whatsoever, this has turned into Rant and Rave.
Jon and Sansa was better than I expected! Jon not being all God-like and actually troubled and hurt. Sansa being determined and political after all she’s been through, and not to mention their hug when they first saw each other! Superb. Torment and Brienne, Edd, then the interesting conflict between Brienne, Mel and Davos, everything about Castle Black is top notch.
High Sparrow continues to be infuriating, but Jonathan Pryce is impeccable. Finally got some Marg and Loras. Lannisters and Tyrells allying! Great setup for what’s to come.
Theon and Yara was short but powerful. Good setup for Kingsmoot next week!
Littlefinger has complete control of the Vale thanks to his puppet Sweetrobin.
Ramsay!! That cunt. Osha was great in this scene, I really would’ve liked to see more of her interactions with Ramsay.
This was the best of Meereen in season 6 so far. Everyone was confused about Greyworm and Missandei”s role and their supposed “non-chemistry” with Tyrion but here it was excellent. Love the tension between the three and it’s a very interesting dilemma for the audience as you can empathise with Tyrion’s political compromise but also the horror Grey worm and Missandei faced at the hands of the slavers.
And finally Dany! What more can I say other than “Bow down bitches!”. Loved how she made the play all by herself instead of Drogon ex machina, which funnily enough, people were already complaining about last week cos “of course D&D will do that” and even now they’re complaining! Hilarious. Anyways, interactions with Jorah and Daario were also very intriguing. I wonder if Daario IS the Harpy. Seems likely to me now.
There’s so much I’d love to discuss about this show and I honestly thought this was the place. I don’t care for endless debates on the logistics of the tent burning down so fast or why her hair was intact.
Geralt of Rivia,
She wasn’t. She was at CB with Jon, Brienne, Pod, Edd, Tormund and company.
Can anyone tell why the episode was called book f the stranger? I can’t figure it out.
Go back and look at the GoT50 posts. I was all over those, and I actually watched the episode each day and didn’t miss one. Please do not question my GoT fandom just because I’m not liking season 6. I have knee jerk reactions and come and post right after the episode because I’m passionate about it.
I admitted that I was sleep deprived / hungry and therefore grumpy when I watched episode 2 and liked it better upon re-watch. But I still had the same issues, just they weren’t as magnified. And I’ve had plenty of time to process the entire season as a whole.
And if you look at my first post from today, it’s completely reasonable. I stated stuff that I didn’t like, stuff that I liked, and stuff that I wasn’t sure about. I come in with an open mind wanting desperately to like each episode. But I’m not going to bullshit you guys either just so I can join the happy party after an episode.
It is what is. I type this while drinking one of my roommate brewskies which I stole (I don’t even drink). Hopefully this can numb the pain temporarily.
The High Dullard I mean Sparrow mentioned it in passing. You were probably dozing off like I was during that speech. Too bad the Book of Stranger was an awesome name that had so much mystery behind it.
I too have dreamed this dream: that Brienne and Jaime will settle down together in a snug little castle with gingham curtains and a white picket fence and chickens in the yard (ensuring regular social calls from the Hound). They will sit by the hearth, Jaime rocking the cradle with his foot while Brienne does her knitting, using his golden hand to wrap her yarn around.
But face the harsh reality of it all: Jaime and Cersei must go out together. And then Brienne will need someone to comfort her.
What I find especially amusing is that Tormund – usually all bluster and braggadocio – seems so stunned by this strapping spearwife that he isn’t saying a word. Not one peep about his prodigious member, even. He must be truly smitten!
We all called it on Tormienne, peeps – whether it’s just a passing fancy or a star-crossed romance, it’s definitely some sort of a thing. Kudos to us for such perspicacity!
The day Tyrion, or anybody else for that matter, is able to talk a bunch of Khals into giving him control over pretty much all the Khalasars in existence I except him as the God of Tits and Wine. Even Drogo wasn’t trying to do that (he only wanted to invade with his own Khalasar) and he was the stronges Khal around. – And that’s the only thing that Dothraki follow. Dany tried to win the Khals over bei talking and it didn’t work. – She had the option not to kill the Khals after she showed them what she is capable of and hope that it would impress them enough to acknowledge her as the leader, but that would have been very risky (she might be able to survive fire, but she wouldn’t be able to fight even one of the Khals on her own) and it could also be considered a sign of weakness by the Dothraki.
I liked this one but not as much as the Oathbreaker and Home.
The best parts of the episode?
-Tormund’s reaction to Brienne. Lol! Him staring at her. Tormund is in love.
– Jon and Sansa reunion. It feels so good to have the two of them in the same scene together.
– Yara and Theon. Theon’s story arc has been very satisfying and on point thus far.
– Tyrion negotiating and Grey Worm and Missandei being opposed to it. I have a feeling Grey Worm might turn on Dany down the road…I dunno. Just a feeling.
– I liked what’s brewing in King’s Landing.
I’m not quite sure how to feel about Dany the unburnt. I know it’s show canon only but it leads a lot of people to assume things about Targs that are simply not true. It changes the whole Targ story somewhat. I know people don’t like Drogon ex-machina but I would have been okay with it because I’ve accepted that Dany and Drogon have a bond. So Drogon rescuing Dany isn’t really outside the realm of possibility.
But at least that her story got moving so I’m happy with that. She now has the whole Dothraki behind her, her dragons, Tyrion and if my guess is correct, the Ironborn. She’s set up to conquer Westeros by the end of this season. If she’s still in Esos by the end of this season, I’d be very disappointed.
Wow, can I say WHOOSH!? Did that conversation really go over your head? When he said ‘riding the dragon’ he was referring to being with Daenerys in bed. He even said she’s a wild one. So much so that Jorah is too old to handle her.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
I don’t expect you to love everything, it’s simply a pattern I’ve noticed of your flipping out and then saying “jk” and I thought I’d suggest a fix. Carry on then.
the jon and sansa scenes made this my favourite episode of all time i don’t know what people are complaining about lol
dvc,
Just in this episode, we had Ramsay murdering Osha. Earlier in the season, Ramsay had his dogs kill Walda, Sam admitted to deceiving Gilly and still got his way, Varys manipulated a young mother into giving up valuable intelligence, and Dany talked herself into a prison sentence (the very mess she had to “clean up” tonight). Oh, and just because Yara will attempt to rule the Iron Islands doesn’t mean she’ll succeed.
Men still are doing okay, power-wise, in the show.
That was some feisty pushback from Grey Worm, wasn’t it? It appears that the Unsullied (or at least some of them) do have the capacity to get some sense of self back after they get used to being free for a while. Nice to see some character growth there.
I’m sorry. Were you under the impression that you said something worth even arguing against? If you said something more substantive than “girls have cooties” I guess I missed it.
It SHOULD be off-putting, but it made complete sense in all of its uses in this episode. Khals view women as things that breed, work, or give them pleasure. Most men in this world think that way; most men in our world have thought this way, historically, and some still do. It may lose power to you to hear it used as a threat, but it doesn’t lose power to the threatened.
All the examples you mentioned made perfect sense for the characters and the world they maneuver in. Just because the HS equated women with wine and food (which does indeed make them into objects to be gifted) doesn’t mean the writers are saying that’s what women are.
This show has had some horrific rape scenes, and there has been a lot of discussion/debate/argument about it, but the point is that they ARE horrific scenes, because rape is horrific. The violence on this show is usually really terrible, and I’m glad it’s terrible, because it is terrible. If they were flippant about it, THAT would make it lose its power; its power lies in its terror, as it is, as it should be.
Lady McLea,
Did you pass? I got it just fine.
George,
The “dragon” he was referring to riding was Daeny, since they boned. He was teasing Jorah that he wouldn’t be able to handle it. Not really sure why they thought this was a good time to do that. It seemed out of place to me.
The camera lingered long on Sweetrobin’s fascination with the gyrfalcon. Yes, it’s the sigil of his house; but it seems that the showrunners want us to see some significance in this, beyond a spoiled brat of a lordling being easily swayed by the advisor who brings him the nicest presents.
Some folks have speculated in the past that Sansa (“Little Bird”) might be foreshadowed to have an ability to warg birds. We know that Orell warged an eagle, and we have strong reason to suspect that Bloodraven warged Jeor Mormont’s talking raven. I wonder if this falcon has some such future part to play.
Well you just said the exact same thing in the previous post and I responded. It’s not a pattern and I’m not just like “jk”. It was episode 2, and I still stand by my major criticism that I was let down by Mel bringing back Jon (since it was the most obvious way it could happen and it was just really anti-climactic to me). A lot of this has to do with enormously high expectations of the show. And again, it’s not just this episode, but my feelings on the season as a whole. Those aren’t going to change tomorrow. Don’t hold it against me because I’m actually honest and admitted I was in a shit mood and pulled back some of my criticism of episode 2.
Geralt of Rivia,
If they meet at Winterfell it would take Sansa weeks to get there too, from WF, just as it would for LF to get there from the Vale.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Lol yes, my attention also drifted during the HS talking. Thanks for clearing that up. I thought it would refer to something more mysterious as well.
Just a quick question….Does Jaime know about Cersei an Lancel? I know Tyrion does but I don’t remember if they made that information public.
Firannion,
Yes. I really liked that. It made so much sense character-wise. And Missandei’s “How long were you a slave?” LOL! That was hilarious.
Why can’t it signify both? I agree with George that the writers chose that phrase for a reason. It certainly got me wondering whether Jorah might not be the one lined up to take Quentyn’s place as toast when he tries to become a dragonrider.
Daniellica,
If they were flippant about it, THAT would make it lose its power; its power lies in its terror, as it is, as it should be.
Ramsay’s violence seems flippant AND terrible. Flippant because it rarely accomplishes anything other than being terrible.
I’m more disappointed about people arguing about disagreeing than people being critical, but that’s still the minority of the comments…usually. I still see a lot of discussion and speculation and interesting ideas going on, or I wouldn’t be here at all.
But I guess now you won’t read this. So I’m talking to myse-elf, oh oh ohoh.
Don’t take it personally. Do the people complaining about your criticism know you well enough to comment on you as a person? No? Then it isn’t personal. I know that Americans in particular have a hard time disagreeing with someone without writing them off as a heretic or socialist or whatever, but I for one find difference of opinion much more interesting than agreeing with everyone/thing all the time. Where’s the fun in that?
Lonald,
I agree. I live in Arizona so we get the show on Pacific time. I tend to avoid Open Chat and Twitter both until after I’ve seen the episode for the first time. Twitter is the absolute worst if you’re trying to avoid spoilers.
RIP, Osha. I’m gonna miss you, a lot. Ramsey needs to be taken out and flayed.
So, I’m gonna go watch Last Week Tonight with John Oliver and then Game of Thrones again. This is my usual pattern for Sunday nights now.
See all of you tomorrow so we can dissect the episode more.
Okay so I was partially right about a few things, HUGELY wrong about many other things and right on the money for two things. Not bad? 🙂
Just finished watching it again, putting my thoughts together, but I will say Braime just lost some serious points from me with all that awesome eye contact over dinner.
Tormund you ginger devil. You know she has no idea what you’re doing right? 🙂
Oh I’m definitely not drinking because of the criticism. I’m drinking because I’m depressed about the show. I agree, I can understand people having little patience with the book people who are biased, but if someone shares an unbiased opinion and backs it up, then I don’t understand the problem. But there is a little truth to what Lyanna is saying, I can wear my emotions on my sleeve a bit especially directly after the episode, that’s mainly just my personality though (though I was in a bad mood when I watched ep 2, but it still a let down relative to expectations).
I thought it was revealed that the masters from Astapor, Yunkai, and Volanties were the Sons of the Harpy, but instead they were just funding them. I really hope we won’t get some lame reveal that Dario or Missendei or someone like that is secretly the leader of the Harpy.
I think it works fine with the leader being an old master.
Daniellica, props to you for being so grownup about people being able to disagree civilly and learn stuff from others’ differing opinions!
Ramsay being flippant about terrible violence doesn’t make the scene flippant as a result. I don’t think anyone thought the scene with Ramsay in the kennels with FatWalda was flippant. Even the sausage scene with Theon, while Ramsay is obviously making light of doing such a vile and traumatic thing, his making light makes if more horrific.
I know people are disgusted with and sick of Ramsay being a wretched, terrorizing little cunt, but he is who he is. What else would he do? He gets off on it. Other than how awful it was to lose Osha tonight, by Ramsay standards, it was clean and simple.
I’ve heard some people say that we just don’t need to see it, and sometimes we don’t (the kennel scene being a good example). But what else is a TV show going to do? Have people talk about that sick little fucker, Ramsay?
Seriously, what else are they going to do to show what happened? I know a lot of people complained bitterly about the Theon torture stuff, but how else was the audience to comprehend his transformation into Reek?
Part of the point of Ramsay is his casual relationship to extreme violence, and I hope this will be his ultimate downfall. While it might intimidate/scare/threaten others into submission, in more people it breeds resentment and unbound fury, not just because he kills/maims people with impunity, but because it is an assault upon their dignity and a major violation on what is acceptable even in times of war. It is also an assault upon our dignity to see it, and we have to feel how unacceptable it is.
I know this is a point of contention, but I understand why they do it.
Yeah, it could be fun where this dynamic could go, if they give it time to breathe!
Brienne has zero experience with men being genuinely attracted to her, and tons of experience with men pretending to be interested, only to yank her chain or win a wager. So she will naturally be totally in denial at first, then deeply suspicious of Tormund’s motives if he makes his interest so clear that she can no longer ignore it. What would it take to convince her of his sincerity? Will he try to carry her off in the traditional wildling way? Could get very messy.
I wonder if this has anything to do with their casting a very tall, imposing actor as Tormund, when in the books he’s a short burly dude.
Awww, you need a puppy! Or a direwolf! Or a direwolf puppy! If I were as disappointed as you seem, I would be depressed, too. Perhaps the end of the season or even the end of the show will recontextualize how events played out and make them more compelling to you in the end. Maybe it’s just where you are in your life. I know I’ve tried reading books/watching movies before, and I just couldn’t get through them, and then a few years later I’ll try again, and I’ll have a completely different experience of the material.
Not suggesting the problem is you and not the show…just grasping at hope!
Seriously? He was killed by his own people, found out that there was no afterlife, then was brought back and had to hang the very people who betrayed him, out of which, one was a kid he loved like a brother. Jon being low on confidence and motivation and not wanting to rush into yet another war, is not an example of lacking balls, imo. It just shows that he is human and like all humans. can have periods of self-doubt, especially after what he has been through. He will get back his confidence soon.
Tormund,
If they are disappointed, it means they like the show. Hence why it is disappointing to them if they don’t like an episode. Because they expect and hope to like it. That’s why they watch. Is disappointment not allowed ? All you “the show can do no wrong people” need to chill out. Some people aren’t going to agree with you. Get over it and stop attacking them.
That said, I personally loved this episode despite some misgivings about episodes 1 and 3. Sorry to hear that some of you didn’t like it.
Cameryn,
^word!
I thought it was a good episode. Again, as the Alfie Allen whore I am, I thought his acting was flawless and I seriously don’t understand how little recognition or attention his scenes always seem to get. No matter, he never lets down. And I’m going to see the London play he’s in in July, so yay for that, at least.
I wasn’t quite buying the acting in the Jon/Sansa scene but I’m very happy they are together.
Ramsay needs to die and I hope we don’t have to wait the entire season but it seems we will.
I think Jorah is going to kill Daario. Daario keeps provoking him, and they set it up so Jorah shows him the grayscale, so you think he wouldn’t be a bastard like that. But he actually would.
Firannion,
I just don’t understand the obsession with being right and knowing it all. I got into a fight with one of my professors once because I told her I didn’t believe in Universal Truth, and she said if I didn’t believe in Universal Truth that we didn’t have any common ground, and she couldn’t talk to someone with whom she had no common ground. I was like, REALLY? Doesn’t that give us MORE to talk about?
Way too many things are accompanied by something akin to religious fervor nowadays, and religious fervor does not foster an atmosphere of civilized disagreement or dissent or compromise or creativity or invention. It’s a closed system.
Fuck that, says I!
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Maybe then Daario will reveal he is really Euron who will reveal he is really Howland Reed who will reveal he is really the High Sparrow on a strict diet of Jojenpaste.
It could happen.
OK, sit tight for what may be the most polarizing opinion of the evening:
I actually kind of like the High Sparrow. Not just Jonathan Pryce’s terrific performance, but the character. As a person.
I gather from the comments that most of you all detest him. And generally, in real life, I detest religious fundamentalists. Melisandre is a total bad guy to me, for burning people; saving Jon does nothing to ameliorate that, in my perception. Nor do I approve of the HS’s sanctioning the actions of the Sparrows to police public morality, or throwing people in prison for fornication.
But however manipulative the intent of his speeches, they do largely (other than the obsession with what’s “sinful”) make a lot of sense to me. I think that his populism is sincere and genuine. And I think that the smallfolk of King’s Landing deserve someone to champion their rights. I like the counterbalance of power to the excesses of the aristocracy that he represents. If he weren’t quite so anti-sex, he’d have a lot in common with Dorothy Day and the Catholic Worker Movement, or Liberation Theology in Latin America. There’s a bit of Pope Francis in him, and a bit of Bernie Sanders. I can’t help hoping that he survives Cersei’s plotting to bring him down.
There. I said it. So sue me.
A baby direwolf would be nice 🙂 Not sure how my neighbors would feel about that though.
There are still 6 episodes left so there definitely is some hope. And it’s not like I’ve hated the first 4, it’s all relative to the expectations they’ve set which are enormously high. I’ll definitely keep an open mind, I still look forward to the episodes each week and I still don’t watch the next episode previews, so I still care.
Anyways, I appreciate your kind posts they have helped bring me off the ledge, even if I was being a tad melodramatic (I only finished half the beer).
::head explodes::
Daniellica,
And yet, despite all the torture scenes, viewers still didn’t get Theon’s transformation but found it hilarious to a certain extent. Which is incredible. But yes, I agree with you. The show has to show us what happens because way too many people are extremely poor at adding 1+1, and don’t understand something, unless they’ve seen it.
Agreed. I want Theon to hang in there until near the end of the story at least – largely out of awe at Alfie’s acting skills.
Firannion,
I detest all religious fanatics. And while I’m European, I feel the need to object to you comparing HS to Bernie Sanders. On behalf of Bernie Sanders. 😉
Daniellica,
Ramsay being flippant about terrible violence doesn’t make the scene flippant as a result.
I agree with the causality fallacy. I still think the two acts (walda and osha) were just standalone kills that did not add to the story. He (Ramsay) didn’t use Roose JR (temp hostage/plaything?) or interrogate Osha (where’s Bran?). Neither act showed viewers a different side of Ramsay. That’s where I am coming from. Maybe hollow is a better word for me to use than flippant.
I can buy that; showing him doing the same thing over and over doesn’t reveal anything new about him. Some things have to be dealt with, though, and if Ramsay is dealing with them, we know how it’s gonna go down. If we didn’t see what happened to FatWalda or Osha, we’d be wondering, “Where’s FatWalda? Where’s Osha?”
Knowing how it’s gonna go down can be disappointing, too, but people without depth are pretty predictable. Ramsay isn’t a deep thinker. He is driven by impulses, and even the actions he probably thinks are sneaky and unpredictable (like killing Roose when he killed him), are inevitable without intervention. The same was true for Joffrey. Their motivations are apparent.
But the fact that we can predict his actions and reactions due to who he is means that his enemies can do the same. On the bright side, every terrible thing we see him do will make his death that much more satisfying.
Actually, if R+L=J, then Jon is Dany’s nephew – her brother Rhaegar’s son
I think he is sincere, too, in wanting to help the smallfolk. People forget, however, that in this world, smallfolk don’t really have rights. They don’t even have family names. Some people think monarchy is a bargain between the rulers and the ruled, the rulers enjoying their privilege in exchange for taking on the responsibility of taking care of the people.
Shit of the bull, I say.
Rulers rule because they made a play for power and won. By winning, they gain money and armies and the ability to inflict untold harm among those they rule. The High Sparrow may learn this to his folly. One can hope so, anyway.
While I find him genuine in his desire to help people, the ideas he perpetuates are toxic, and the help he offers is constrained by so many preconditions as to be useless or dangerous. He is a good example, however, of the overzealous desire to do good leading to horrible actions. Not that he would ever recognize this. People who presume to know what their god or gods mean/want/intend, and believe it sincerely, are capable of anything. They have carte blanche, after all.
Wonder if we’ll see Oldtown next episode?
Well, I’ve got to give them credit here. That’s certainly not where I was expecting things to go in Vaes Dothrak. My full thoughts.
Wouldn’t you think that Jorah would have the sense to turn his raggedy old shirt inside-out, so that the big gaping hole in the sleeve would be on the non-greyscale-infected arm?
Jack Bauer 24,
http://imgur.com/EJsUZ6s
Cameryn,
And when Harry rapes Sansa…etc.
The meltdown will be pure gold! A joy to behold. Just wait.
Firannion,
He always covers it, the fabric could just have opened and he didn’t noticed.
God you purist are a joke….
I am starting to feel that David and Dan were right when they said in an interview that this was their best season yet. We are already 4 episodes in and it is indeed absolutely great so far.
Also on a similar note, Jon has been in all episodes so far. I wonder, in past years people mentioned that all the main GOT actors only fall into the supporting actor category at the Emmy’s – could it be that Jon will be nominated in the Lead actor category? I do not know those rules, so please correct me.
Raoul_Duke,
He did say this is his biggest season yet.
Okay … one more thought before I hit the sack.
Did any of you notice not one but two appearances of the long-awaited “man-bun”? I did.
The first was when Jon was telling Edd he was tired of fighting. The second was in the scene of the Pink Letter.
I loved the reunion between Jon and Sansa, and the conversation after when she apologized for being an ass toward him.
The glances Tormund was sending Brienne’s way were hilarious to me. I love the idea of Brienne and Tormund Giantsbane getting together once he gets through her walls.
I’ll be watching this episode again tomorrow before “After the Thrones” shows up on HBO and/or HBONow so I’ll probably have more to say then.
Mihnea,
Dont bother Mihnea. You and Jack Bauer are the only tolerable people on this site now. Hell even Sue’s making blanket statements in the official recap about how noone likes the large special effects scenes and the show should “realise this” and only the quieter, character interaction scenes.
I find it funny how in season 5 everyone was rooting for the High Sparrow to screw over Cersei and now everyone’s rooting for Cersei to kill the High Sparrow.
We have seen that ravelling hole in his sleeve for at least an episode or two previously.
And how does that make me a purist, exactly? Jorah having greyscale at all isn’t even a book thing.
Why is schadenfreude such a big kick for you? Some would say that taking pleasure in other people’s disappointment, discomfiture or misfortune is not a trait to which people should aspire.
Maybe the Many Faced God wants the person responsible for resurrecting him. The Waif commented on how short her list was (Cersei Lannister, Gregor Clegane, Walder Frey), and asked whether she was forgetting anyone.
Her season 5 list (while sitting ouside the House of Black and White) was: Cersei, Walder Frey, The Mountain, and Meryn Trant. Meryn Trant has now been removed for obvious reasons, but the Faceless Men already knew about that obviously, so she isn’t forgetting anyone from the Season 5 list.
Her season 4 list (when she was keeping the Hound awake) was much longer:
Joffrey (Dead, Arya learned of his death)
Cersei (still on the list)
Walder Frey (still on the list)
Meryn Trant (Arya killed him)
Tywin Lannister (Dead, Arya could have heard this news in Braavos)
The Red Woman
Beric Dondarrion
Thoros of Myr
Ilyn Payne
The Mountain (still on the list)
The Hound (removed from list, but discussed with Waif, so not “forgotten”)
This leaves The Red Woman, Beric Dondarrion, Thoros of Myr, and Ilyn Payne as the “forgotten” names. I suspect that Ilyn was removed from the list because the actor playing him had to leave the show due to illness. That leaves three other “forgotten” names. Two performed resurrections, and one was resurrected. I’m guessing that one of them may eventually be a target, because only death can pay for life.
Since Melisandre told Arya that they would meet again, I think Arya might eventually be the one to kill her, which could have interesting consequences if Jon is allied with Mel or depending on her magic.
Also, I’m guessing that Arya will have at least one more target in Braavos before the “forgotten” name becomes directly relevant, and I think this local target will be the subject of Jaqen’s “Does Death only come for the wicked, and leave the decent behind?” quote from the Ep5 preview.
So far, despite Arya’s violent tendencies and the fact that she seems to enjoy killing, she has always directed her violence toward people who she thought deserved it. That’s not an appropriate attitude for “No One”, so the next step in her training might be for her to kill someone innocent.
Tbf I wouldn’t be surprised if any of this actually happens
I think there’s a matter that it’s hard to escape the feeling there isn’t some kind of mind-screwing twist missing which is the signature of GRRM’s ASOIF books
But of there wouldn’t be, so this is where we are seeing the quality “drop” from epic GRRM standards to “mere” high TV quality, but it’s hard not to see the “Crasters Keepisation” creeping in where we are getting to TV cliches
Jons resurrection won’t be without a price, whether it is too Jons personality for being in Ghost too long, to Mels vitality etc
Dany’s take-over of the Dothraki isn’t without consequence either, undoing some traditions in order to move society forward is one thing but if you totally smash the entire societal structure you facilitate societal collapse
The much maligned Dosh Khaleen were effectively the backbone of Dothraki civilisation and there were certain customs the Dothraki adhered to. People think they were brutal before, the only way they can be kept in line now there are no rules at all is via a brutal Iron Fist, aka Drogon
Given how much they hate bloodmagic and witchcraft, Dragon-hatching aside, many may been deeply suspicious of all the Khals dying in a sudden fire and a Silver-haired foreigner walking out unscathed…so I’m not entirely sure that all would be inclined to follow her.
Let’s not forget that Daario had drawn blood in Vaes Dothrak and then some, Khals would not be so dismissive
Ironically the “corny” notion of Drogon flying in may have been quite apt thematically, given his death may have played a part in the hatching of Drogons egg, so it would be like Drogo returning to Vaes Dothrak as part of that big Khal meet-up (geez I think they’d have learned long ago not to meet up in one place, after all a foreigner – namely a Faceless Man – can come in with the merchants and poison them all)
Ghosts Lunch,
Martin hasn’t done a twist since Ned’s execution. The RW was forshadowed much stronger then in the show.
I don’t think there will be any cost at all with Jon’s revival and Dany getting the Dothraki.
And I fully expect the final to be a battle against the WW, where perhaps Dany and/or Jon die.
I like the way Jon is more hesitant now to fight – obviously he doesn’t want to die again. When they got the Letter, and learnt the 2000 vs 5000 he still doesn’t think it is a good idea to confront Ramsey – no wonder why. The Wildling are not even trained soldiers, so Ramsey has quite the advantage.
Since he agreed to help, I hope we will see more of the political thinking of Jon’s, like, knowing the Umbers might not be enthusiastic about the Wildlings, or which Northern Houses are the most likely to join him. I absolutely loved that bit in the books.
I liked the way Sansa was the one to persuade Jon to fight, but I can’t help but notice how Sansa is not the one to be afraid of losing anything- she won’t be the one doing the fighting, obviously. Jon’s better think of some good strategy.
Preview
LF and Sansa – can it be a part of a dream? Like LF feeling guilty about Sansa… I just don’t see them meeting next episode.
Casso,
Yeah it’s quite fascinating to see how the HoB&W would perceive these resurrections, eg the Red God is in the Hall but these Priests are “stealing” from the many-faced God perhaps
Of course in the books only death may pay for life holds, resurrecting Beric seems to have had a toll on Thoros perhaps, Beric died to resurrect LS
In show terms, I think there’s a chance while not killing Mel Maestar Cressen shows poison wouldn’t work anyway?) but killing show Beric or Thoros (who may not be able to see murder attempts in the flames as skillfully) may tie up that loose end as far as those characters go (with all due respect, but they are really cutting the cast list down…)
I dont want to jump the gun, but I am also not quite feeling Jon’s personality chance this episode. I could see that Jon might be tired of constant fighting, but I find it hard to believe that he would just utterly and completely ignore the White Walkers.
People who are resurrected by R’hllor, become much more one track minded, with more singular determination. Jon seems to be doing completely the opposite. Jon is acting more like someone who had a near death experience then someone who was resurrected by R’hllor.
Jon is also eating, while people who are resurrected dont need to eat or sleep. It is more like he was in coma, then actually dead. But perhaps Jon/s resurrection was special or something.
It was awesome to see Jon and Sansa reunited, but now I also slightly wondering if might not have too early.
Both Sansa and Jon is suppose to have big arcs this season. But it is difficult for me to see how they will achieve these big’s arcs without clashing over duties. Or let me put it this way it seems like there will not be enough moments to share between two arcs. There are only 3 Northern houses to recruit, that is not exactly going entail a lot of political skill, and then we have the battle.
Sansa does not really know Northern politics and she has never been on a battlefield.
But will wait and see how these develops turn out, sometimes you just need a bot of patience within this stale.
In a medieval fantasy where dragons and ice zombies exist some people find the most unbelievable thing to be women having any power or agency? This is amusing to me.
Anyway…. I loved the episode and I’m really loving this season as a whole. I like how they’re portraying Jon after his resurrection. It makes complete and total sense for him to be afraid of dying for once, he’s been dead and according to him there’s “nothing” there. Why would he be in a rush to get back to that nothingness, especially since he’s never actually *lived.* He’s scared and he’s loss confidence in his ability to lead and do the “right” thing since last time he tried to he was horribly betrayed by his own. I don’t know that any other outcome would have been more believable for his character.
The Sansa and Jon reunion was the most satisfying thing that’s happened on the show since Joffrey died. It was amazing. Words fail me. It’s so great seeing these two characters interact because I don’t think we ever got a sense of their relationship on the show. On the show I assume that Sansa just ignored Jon because her mother disliked him so much and now to see how much they mean to each other is amazing. My eyes were tearing up after their scenes, I’m so happy for Sansa. After everything she’s been through she’s finally with family she can trust unequivocally, who has nothing but her best interest at heart, as opposed to using her as a pawn in their game.
Speaking of Sansa. It’s so great to see her getting angry and inspiring Jon to try and take Winterfell back. Sansa has had enough of everybody’s sh*t. She’s reunited with one of her brother’s and she’s ready to take back what’s hers. I live!
I actually thought the stuff in KL and Mereene was interesting this time around, but I have to ponder on it some more.
Dany was awesome too. I can see how some might find it a bit cheesy but overall it worked for me. It was just the right amount of over the top and amazing. I too was expecting Drogon to come in and save her or Jorah etc., so I was pleasantly surprised to see her get out of it on her own. Also I think it was a great callback to S1 but even better because of the sheer amount of people who witnessed it. How long until word spreads to Westeros about her coming out of the fire unburned?
Other random things that happened:
Tormund looking at Brienne like she’s the best thing he’s ever seen in his life was hilarious and the look she gives him is equally funny.
Melisandre’s “I will do as Jon Snow commands.” Lmao. Basically that entire convo with Melisandre and Davos. They’re an endlessly amusing pair. Melisandre and her fickle ways cracks me up. I imagine she would lose her mind if she saw what Dany can do.
Brienne basically walking up to Davos and Melisandre and taking responsibility for killing Stannis and offering no apologies. Amazing!
I’m sick of Ramsey and his cartoon villain ways. He can’t die soon enough for me.
Glad Theon is home.
I hope Jon and Sansa beat Littlefinger senseless for using her as a pawn and putting her in danger. Time for his shady ass to pay.
I am still scratching my head over this one. Though I have been “done wrong” about as often in my life as the average person, I guess (with a physically abusive parent, abusive bosses, as a crime victim several times etc.), never once have I ever “destroyed my enemies” – nor wanted to.
Cameryn,
There is simply no way that Brienne is killing Stannis in the books. They are hundreds of miles away from each other, their storylines are nowhere near intersecting and Stannis is about to fight the Boltons. It’s a safe bet he’ll lose that battle, and if he doesn’t lose but actually defeats the Boltons, then obviously there won’t be a Bastard Bowl in the books. So either way, the show and the books are very clearly going to be wildly divergent. There is no way around that.
DireWolfHeart,
I’m practically that anti-shipper HQ of the world, and even I like that scenario lol
Couldn’t agree more.
The fans here used to be a positive force; the force that created the initial buzz that got the ordinary viewer interested.
Now you’re a bunch of whiny jackasses trying to out-cool each other with how much you haaaaaaaaaaaaate whatever Average Viewer enjoyed.
It’s pretty sad.
Ayman,
Agreed. The unsulied post should be better though, less book-wanking.
KG,
We had a preaty big influx of new book-readers, mostly in the off-season, when spoilers were being posted here…. Some of course were purists…
Ironic that we got this influx the very season, many yelled they won’t watch the show anymore…
I loved that whole interchange! Tyrion: Long enough to know… Missandei: But not long enough to understand.
Missandei wisecracking the Wise Man!
Wimsey,
What Jon did is not unprecedented though. Wildlings have been given the gift before
…and where did you get these ideas that people resurrected by R’hllor don’t do any of that? Because in the show, it’s never once mentioned that they don’t eat or sleep. Jon is not undead…he’s resurrected. He’s fully alive, capable of dying again. And he doesn’t want to. That’s the change in his character, and it’s a pretty big one. He doesn’t care about honor or duty…he wants to live. Honor and duty aren’t going to keep him there…but family will.
Not only that, if you were a god like R’hllor, would you let someone you send back into the world of the living actually remember what the afterlife is like?
Okay I just watched the episode
Woooooooowowowowowowowowowow
I CRIED LIKE A BABY WHEN JON AND SANSA REUNITED
I loved all their scenes I can’t wait to watch it again now
Did someone say thatLF is with Sansa in the preview???? I really hope Jon doesn’t leave here. LF will kidnap her fuck!!! I want him dead ASAP
Please someone tell me she doesn’t go anywhere with LF and not with Jon! Fuck!!!!!!!!!!
Also – Dany was badddddddd fucking ass I loved that scene! So sick! God I love her.
Super down about OSHA. I just loved her. I wanted more of her to be honest
So happy with this episode but I’m so over Ramsay and LF.
Fuck yes jansaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Dee,
Screw Jansa…. Tormund/Brienne, that’s what matters.
Mihnea,
Hahha
They are awesome
But I’m all about the jansa!!!!
Dee,
Unfortunately, Jon still does not feature in previews 🙁 . So we don’t know what he will do next episode. It looks like LF makes it to Castle Black and that’s where he meets Sansa, but it’s not clear. There’s no way Jon leaves her with LF though, not after his “Where will we go” !!
Mel will resurrect Jon, probably sacrificing Shireen to do it. Dany will take control of the Dothraki in a manner similar to what we saw today. But I’ll eat my dirty underpants if Brienne kills Stannis in the books. She is nowhere near him, not heading in his direction, and has shown no obsession with him like on TV.
Yeah, it’s been a bit off the hook for this episode.
I think it’s in large part because we’re off book. When the show was adapting the books many of us had already read, folks knew more or less what to expect. Since the start of this season, we have no such road map, so to speak, so I think some people have let their expectations run wild. And of course, when reality doesn’t meet expectations, disappointment is what follows.
And then of course there are the naysayers, people who will complain about anything for any reason just to be contrarian. Anyone who uses the word ‘canon’ in reference to this episode falls into that category.
Stay strong. Most of us loved this episode.
ghost of winterfell,
I REALLY REALLY HOPE SO
Ayman,
Don’t feel you should have to leave. Occasionally I think the same as you, but if all the people who loved the show left this site would just become westeros.org 2.0. As Mihnea, said, the Unsullied posts are often far friendlier places, because the show is judged purely on its own merits rather than to the books. I love the books, but I’m fed up of people constantly making comparisons. We are past the books now, so I don’t care what people presume will happen.
The show is not perfect, and pretty much every episode there is something I didn’t like quite so much, but I do wonder about the people who seemingly hate each and every aspect. I also wonder if the people who are making comments on this site during the episode are really paying attention, but that is another matter.
I’ll just say I don’t agree. There hasn’t been any indication previously that they’ve even thought of dragon riding. I also don’t believe Jorah is going to be taken out with something as nonsensical as that. Daario has constantly been ribbing Jorah about his love for Daenerys and how he’s stupid to think it will be reciprocated. I think this was simply a ‘clever’ metaphor they used rather than being directly crude about sex.
Crude?? If my lover compared having sex with me to riding a dragon, I’d be flattered as all hell. DAMN RIGHT.
Athelstane,
And they need some mobile fire weapons to get rid of the wights.
Do we even know how many White Walkers there are? How many will be left if the wights are destroyed?
Firannion,
I’m pretty sure that decades of desert sun and indoor braziers dried the structure to point of really good tinder.
Everyone keeps saying that we are “past the books”. Are we really though? I don’t think so. Think about it – GRRM was trying to get the book done to be released before S6 started. That means, guesstimating, he was what 70%, 80%, 90% done with Book 6 when they were writing S6 scripts? S6 and Book 6 should be very much aligned, at least as much as they can be with their own paths. They’re probably writing S7 now, or have it done already, and at that point, they should be so close to the finish line that they can’t diverge much anymore.
Little finger is a goner. His power now lies in his control of sweet Robin. But Sansa has more control over Sweet Robin, he’s in love with her. She won’t forgive him for marrying her to Ramsey and in the preview for episode 5 they are definitely setting up that conflict. I don’t know if she will off him before or after the battle but he will be offed. He is not a military commander so I can see him being offed before or when they are celebrating taking back Winterfell just as he is thinking he will be a part of the power structure. And maybe Bran is able to see that he was the one who betrayed Ned and relay that through the gods wood in Winterfell
I will say I wasn’t overly impressed with Dany’s scene, but other than that I thought it was pretty good. KL and Meereen had their best scenes of the season so far, imo. Jon and Sansa was really nice to see. More than most it seems, I do actually like LF and I liked seeing his return. Watched it with a friend and he said something better happen in the next episode or I’m done with the show… I got kind of mad, because I thought A LOT happened in this episode. Jon/Sansa getting an army, Vale army joining the fray, Dany with a(nother) new army and free to actually do something meaningful again. There was a lot to like in this episode, even if it wasn’t particularly action packed.
How many people have read twow? No raised hands? How can people keep saying the show has passed the books? Maybe it has and maybe it has not. We wont know until the book is released and we read it. Hbo did buy the rights to asoiaf right? Id be willing to say confidently that d&d know a LOT of whats in twow. They knew from season 1 i think. They may of had 3 paths for the show from the start. 1: to follow the books as close as possible assuming twow would be out in time and 2: if by a certain point in the show when they knew the book wouldnt be out then they would go a slightly different route but keep the main characters story as close as possible and 3: they just rewrite what they want and keep the ending. We wont know until we read it. Trying to be open minded. Im not the best with grammar and punctuation. Sorry all. Boomer Sooner baby!
Ginevra,
She got them there.
I do agree with Tyrion though. He had to undo a lot of what Dany has done. She’s a great and fearsome conqueror but not really a good ruler. It’d be interesting to see how will that play out when Dany comes back.
I feel for you, I do. I felt like this through most of season 5. It sucks to be such a fan of something and be let down by a terrible season or terrible finale, whathaveyou.
I lurved last night. Just lurved it. Only Osha bummed me out. I agree that we needed more scenes with her to make it feel right.
Sansa and Jon — terrific
Dany — terrific
Firannion,
Yes… a gyrfalcon…. I recall a king owning a gyrfalcon that was named ‘Thunderclap”, (the same king gifting a falcon feather to the memorial statue of his dead love – and that feather being retrieved by Sansa)
So is the king’s falcon still with us?)
Where did LF procure such a rare bird? Didn’t he just leave King’s Landing?
Sansa wore a feathered dress, once, and her Lady is gone, so falcon warging… just a thought.
Craster had 99 sons when he died, plus one more after he died. One is baby Sam, but the other 99 are apparently White Walkers. There would have to be at least one ancient White Walker (presumably the Night’s King) to turn the first Craster baby into a White Walker, but two have been slain, so I’m guessing there are at least 98 more out there. That’s a rather unpleasant thought.
why the fuck is everyone carrying on about jet packs n teleporters n shit???
how the fuck do u people know what the date was when we see LF in a scene to where we see say…the wall in a scene?…they could be weeks apart. i dont give a shit if LF is at the wall the next episode, the scene with him and robin the boob could have been a week b4 jon snow died for all we know…just cuz its the next scene in the show you ppl cry jet pack shit like its some big fuck up. I recall there being something said in the books to explain not every thing written was at the very same time, like i said…coulda been weeks apart but no…u morons have to whine like brats that didnt get what u wanted..or needed to find a mistake someplace just to type bullshit….get the fuck over it for fuck sake….geezuz!!!!!
I really enjoyed this episode. Jon and Sansa finally reuniting after years apart did start the tears pricking at my eyes. I know they weren’t close before, but in a way that just served to show just how much they’d endured that such a meeting would be so emotionally transformative for them both. They needed that win, that sense of something finally coming right. I also enjoyed Sansa’s playful insistence that he acknowledge how awful she’d been to him. Just lovely stuff.
I have chuckled at people anticipating Tormund encountering Brienne prior to this episode and shipping them. I never would have thought the writers would also find this a fun development. OH MY LORD, that was awesome. I am tentatively on board, because I want Brienne to have someone look at her like that and pursue her, but I also know that a battle is coming and Tormund is going to be in the thick of it. I also love her strange bond/chemistry with Jaime and want to see where that might lead, no matter how tragic. Still, a great couple of scenes. There are gifs out there of his stare when she arrives and his attempt to flirt while eating and they are priceless.
Now that someone has equated the HS with BS I can’t unsee it. As much as I can believe there is a genuineness to the HS’s populist ideology, there are also elements which make me find him totally insufferable, pedantic and uncompromising in a way which could be damaging to anyone who doesn’t pass his purity tests. Oh, and yep, I still think he’s a clever manipulator who is not as noble as he appears. So, for me at least, the comparison is very apt.
Osha’s death was awful but also pretty in character. Ramsey is no fool ruled by his peen. I’m just thankful it wasn’t drawn out and torturous. She went out trying to murder the fucker, just was slower on the draw.
I’m loving Sansa’s assertiveness. She seems to have a clear head in terms of what her objectives are and I liked that while she wanted Jon to join her in a quest to retake Winterfell, she was also prepared to undertake the task alone if she had to. She’s really blossoming into a leader, let’s hope this continues.
I am not sure what to make of Tyrion’s compromise with the slavers. It certainly showed that he’s dealing with two factions who are unwilling to budge from their position. It’s going to be tough to maintain peace for all those involved. Maybe that’s the point.
Dany’s stuff was great. I got chills in that final scene. I was relieved that she came up with a plan and saved herself, changing her status on her own terms rather than being rescued by the two men who love her, or Drogon aka dragon ex machina. I think that was an important distinction. She needed to use her own wits and innate powers to turn the tables.
I’ve been reading comments here and elsewhere and it seems as if there’s a contingent of watchers who are uncomfortable with women being assertive and solving their own problems. I’ve seen people call Sansa manipulative for telling Jon that if he won’t fight for Winterfell she’ll do it alone. I’ve seen people call Dany insane and morally wrong for burning the Khals even though they’d been openly talking about raping her to death and were clearly part of a misogynistic culture which needs to be shaken up in terms of how they view their women. I get that her actions were extreme, but you need to understand her position in that world and within the Dothraki culture and the only options she had to break her chains. She *had* to make a show of strength in a way that the highly superstitious, male-dominated, brute-force society could understand and respect. Negotiation hadn’t worked, bribing them with horses didn’t work. So the idea that she needed to show humility and diplomacy with them is pretty silly really. Understanding what drives those people led her to doing what she did. It was appropriate. She’d learned how out of touch with things she was in Mereen. She’d tried diplomacy there, remember? The slaver culture is something she still struggles with. And so, her alternative is to challenge the old order. Keep breaking the wheel. This is what Dany excels at. More fire and blood, please!
LF mentions that Sansa just escaped. It’s not “weeks” apart. Namecalling? Really?
No one’s mentioned it so far, so Ive gotta put it out there:
Now that Jon-Sansa reunions done…the next reunion I want is Benjen-Bran
!!!
He would mean so much for Jon too, now that he’s like the patriarch of the Stark remnants, to have Benjen back would be glorious!!!!
btw, it seems Bronn mustve quietly sneaked off the ship on a small rowing boat when he saw the SS on board, and ended up in the same endless oceans as Gendry…
what if Branden makes Benjen take the black and save him…saw this interesting theory
on reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/4kq3oq/everythingbenjen_stark_branden_stark_warg_theory/
ICE DRAGON,
The only problem with this comment is the fact that Uncle Benjen is, already, a Man of the Night’s Watch. We met him in Sn1, Ep1 where he was introduced as First Ranger.
Remember?
Victoria of the Vale,
well yes but he isnt a member of the night’s watch in the past…here is reddit post
” I think Branden stark is going to some how ask Benjen to save him in the future outside the Blood raven tree and continue to protect him, as he is now going to go on a continuous loop of learning things and may not wake up until he learns everything, this will be the reason Benjen taking the black and disappearing as soon as Jon arrives”
ICE DRAGON,
Are you talking about young Bran, the warg, or Branden, the older brother of Ned and Benjen?
According to ASoIaF, Benjen took the black because he was a younger son and it was expected of him as he wasn’t in the line of inheritance.
Victoria of the Vale,
i am talking about bran the warg going to benjen the younger brother of Ned stark..and i know the reasons that is why its a theory 🙂