On tonight’s new episode of Game of Thrones: [inserts the complete lyrics of “Ladies Night” by Kool and The Gang]. That’s it. That’s what happened.
Spoiler Note: This post is for those who have read the A Song of Ice and Fire series. The post and the comments section will contain spoilers from the novels! Because no, we are not all Unsullied now. If you haven’t read the books yet, please check out our non-book-reader recap. Thanks!
Last week on Game of Thrones, Jon Snow dropped the mic after hanging the Night’s Watch men who killed him, and strolled out of the courtyard, leaving viewers wondering what was next. This week, it seems as though Jon himself isn’t quite certain, now that he’s stepping away from the organization that’s run his life for him since he left home. Dolorous Edd rightly questions Jon’s larger moral obligation; after seeing what Jon did at Hardhome, how can he simply travel south and forget about the Wall?
But that discussion will have to wait because it’s time for the reunion we’ve been waiting for, for years. Two Starks (well, one Stark and a bastard) are finally together again.
Brienne and Pod safely escort Sansa to the Wall, and the GoT gods were not so cruel (FOR ONCE) as to send Jon away before she arrived. Though these two were the least-close of the Stark kids, they’re the first reunited. Jon’s sullen moments and Sansa’s youthful snobbishness don’t matter anymore. They’re family and we’re all sobbing like idiots.
After the reunion, Jon and Sansa catch up over drinks (she’s gonna need a lot of booze to handle this shit) and plan their next move. This creates an interesting role reversal, with Sansa gung-ho to take back Winterfell and Jon reticent to fight. Jon’s continued reaction to his recent murder is understandable, but if anyone is going to get him to snap out of it, it’s his persistent sister, who has always demanded the best. They need to fight back, and it certainly turned to disaster when the Starks were separated before.
This reunion…I mean honestly the rest of this episode could’ve been Tormund and Edd playing beer pong and I would’ve been content, after these scenes.
Sansa isn’t the only visitor at the Wall; Brienne of Tarth is there and immediately owns up to executing Stannis Baratheon to his pals. She’s also not inclined to forgive Melisandre for the blood magic used on Renly.
The Wall just gets more and more interesting, doesn’t it? And I haven’t even gotten to Westeros’s hottest new ship, Tormienne. More on that later.
In the Vale, we have another reunion, though not so tender. Littlefinger makes his first season 6 appearance, visiting with his stepson Robin Arryn who is still delightfully creepy and willing to chuck people out the Moon Door. Robin’s been staying with Lord Yohn Royce while Littlefinger is off sneakin’ and plottin’ and whatnot.
Royce questions the choice to marry Sansa to Ramsay Bolton, but Littlefinger deftly maneuvers the other lord into submission. He also nudges the little lord Robin into sending the Knights of the Vale to help Sansa up north.
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Meanwhile, across the sea: Tyrion’s message last week has brought men from Astapor, Yunkai and Volantis to work out the deeply unpleasant terrorism situation happening in Meereen. (Maybe they can explain why people write on walls in the Common Tongue?)
Yezzan (Enzo Cilenti) who bought Tyrion last year is joined by Razdal Mo Eraz (played by George Georgiou) whom we met in season 3, when he offered Daenerys money and ships to GO AWAY. The third member of this festive trio is Belicho Paenymion (Eddie Jackson), who based on the name I’m guessing is supposed to be a combination of the Volantene triarchs from the novels. They represent the Consortium of People Who Really Want Daenerys to Just Get The Fuck Out. They may or may not also be funding the Sons of the Harpy.
Tyrion proposes a compromise to the situation in Slaver’s Bay that I suspect will spawn a great deal of debate among fans. In order to stop the war, Tyrion is willing to allow slavery to resume in the other cities for seven years. Grey Worm and Missandei, having more than a week’s worth of experience in slavery, think this plan sucks. The other ex-slaves of Meereen agree, and aren’t thrilled with any of Daenerys’ advisors for treating with the slavers. Missandei handles the situation with her wisdom and quick speaking, but her and Grey Worm are still justifiably pissed at Tyrion and how little he understands of slavery.
Daario and Jorah approach Vaes Dothrak and after having bants, make a plan to infiltrate the Dothraki city to find Dany. Daario is reluctant to ditch his boobie dagger but them’s the rules in Vaes Dothrak, as you may recall from season 1, when they had to get creative about murdering Viserys. Anyway, while setting aside their weapons, Jorah’s greyscale-ridden wrist is exposed to Daario. Oh dear.
Predictably, the two run into trouble in the city after coming across Ahko and another young Dothraki man who aren’t buying their ‘lost merchants’ story. Jorah takes on Ahko while Daario chases down and easily breaks the neck of the younger warrior. After a rough tussle, which Jorah is losing badly, Ahko is stabbed from behind- by Daario, who held onto that precious dagger after all.
Inside the Dosh Khaleen’s temple, a bored Daenerys waits, and meets a young Lhazareen widow. The two step outside for air, where they’re found by Jorah and Daario. Dany nicely does not let Daario murder her new pal. Instead she conceives of a new plan, apparently dreamed up while being forced to sit around listening to sexist assholes in tents for the last few weeks. I feel you, Dany. Live your fiery truth.
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In King’s Landing, Margaery is brought before High Sparrow- not for confession, surprisingly, but instead to hear a rather splendid backstory monologue from the old sparrow. He was once a successful cobbler, ambitious and indulgent, until he woke up after a feast, saw everyone naked and found the Seven. That’s the short version of it- the long version sounds so much more extraordinary coming from Jonathan Pryce.
But Margaery is a smart cookie. She listens, she asks polite questions, and when she is finally brought to see her brother, she’s the one keeping it together still. It’s clear that Loras, on the other hand, has broken. It’s not the first, and it won’t be the last time in this episode we see the sister is the strong one, the one who knows what to do. Loras is in trouble, and he’s not the one who is going to get them out of this.
Cersei visits with Tommen again this week, and finds the boy is getting warier, perhaps in part due to the sparrow’s cautions. He knows his mother doesn’t like his wife, and he’s conflicted. Finally she learns he’s been speaking with the High Sparrow, and has learned something useful.
Cersei returns to the Small Council with Jaime to face Olenna and Kevan, and to present her plan. Using the Tyrell army as backup, they’re going to take on the High Sparrow and get Margaery and Loras back. Kevan will go along with it since they’ve take over his son Lancel.
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We pop into the Iron Islands for our next reunion of the evening.
Since Theon turned his back on Yara at the Dreadfort, we’ve been waiting for this: the day when he’d have to face his sister as himself, not Reek. The Greyjoy siblings are reunited on Pyke in tonight’s episode, but it’s not the happy affair the Stark kids saw earlier. Theon is a shattered man, and Yara is sickened and bitter by what her brother has become. And now he’s returned home in time for the kingsmoot, when Yara and men of the Iron Islands will fight for the crown.
It’s a heartbreaking moment, beautifully performed by Alfie Allen and Gemma Whelan. The years have torn these two siblings apart until there’s nothing left but the thinnest link, the bittersweet blood that binds them. The parallel between this reunion moment and the Sansa and Jon scene was so strong, with the sister leading and the brother reluctant to take his place. There were tears flowing during both, as well.
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At Winterfell, Osha and Ramsay have their unavoidable one-on-one, and it truly felt inevitable. There was no way she was going to let someone take Rickon and go quietly, not as fiercely loyal as she was. And so the wildling woman made her move, attempting to seduce and kill Ramsay.
Unfortunately, when Theon revealed all his secrets about the Stark boys, he included the information about Osha, and Ramsay was ready for her. So that’s one more body to add to Ramsay’s count.
He’s in truly fine form tonight; after killing Osha, we head back to the Wall with a Bolton message and see the delivery of the show’s equivalent of the Pink Letter.
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All this goes down while Jon has dinner with Sansa, Brienne, Tormund, Pod and Edd. And let me take a special moment to recognize the newest OTP of OTPs: Tormund and Brienne. I mean she’d probably stab him for even trying it but in a show this dark, you take joy where you can. And I found intense joy in watching Tormund eat in her direction with emphatic ginger eyebrows.
Tormund/Brienne, it’s where it’s at.
Alright, back to the Pink Letter.
Ramsay’s rambling missive challenges Jon and informs him that he has Rickon. The beautiful Stark reunion is now marred by the news that their little brother has been taken. Ramsay threatens everyone in his path until Jon can’t read anymore. Sansa refuses to look away from the ugliness (she’s seen everything Ramsay can do) and finishes reading the letter, his litany of threats.
Assessing the situation, we learn Tormund has 2000 wildling fighters under his command, but they need more, as Ramsay has 5000. Sansa urges Jon to fight once more- he is the son of the last true Warden of the North and they can get more help this way. The Starks need to go home.
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Was it J.R.R. Tolkien, or George R.R. Martin…sorry, I think it was Nicki Minaj who said, “You could be the King but watch the Queen conquer.”
And that about sums up the last scene of the night.
More literal version: The khals meet to discuss Dany’s fate. She doesn’t care for that and offers her leadership instead (why am I suddenly reminded of that scene in Kill Bill where Lucy Liu takes over the yakuza?). But the khals don’t care for that so much and decline her offer in the grossest terms possible, as you would expect. As Daenerys no doubt expected they would.
Hey didn’t we mention something about her having a plan with Jorah and Daario? Apparently the plan is fire. Just lots and lots of fire. Turns out it’s super effective in the desert. And she didn’t even need a dragon. A book of matches would’ve brought down this flock of khals. The temple of the Dosh Khaleen goes up in flames, killing all the Dothraki leaders while leaving Dany untouched.
Finally Daenerys strides forth from the fire, the Unburnt, in a visual that calls back to the season 1 finale, even scored with the same music. The Dothraki bow to her, and are joined by Jorah. Daario sees for the first time the true power of his queen, beyond the dragons. Everyone is on their knees for her, and Daenerys has acquired another army in her path to the throne.
Though it was a visually stunning setpiece, I wasn’t very emotionally involved in Dany’s big moment. It lacked the visceral punch of the season 1 finale, and felt weirdly rushed. By contrast, the simpler personal moments between the Starks and the Greyjoys had a major impact and left me crying, and rewatching already. Though Game of Thrones can and does create incredible, large setpiece moments, its real power is usually in the quieter scenes between a few actors, and I wish the show would trust in this. The drama is found in the characters, not in the flames.
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Hodor!
Woot! What an episode! The ending kinda bordered on cheesy, like the crowdsurfing scene from season 3. But, story-wise, it’s freakin awesome! Now: Westward Ho the Dragons! (by the end of the season hopefully)
jansa cant wait to see how it develops
That and the cheese (littlefinger) were the best part of the show.
So glad they did the show’s version of the Pink Letter!!
Did I miss the part when Sansa told Jon about Bran, Rickon and Arya being alive ? It seems like she says “we owe it to them to take Winter fell back” and Jon shows no surprise at the news…….. Also, loved the reunion scene!!!
Wyllis
DragonWench39,
They made it clear they’d been doing a lot of catching up, including the attack on him. She seemed to know about that as well.
Sansa falling into Jon’s arms is my favorite moment in the entire series.
There. I said.
I’m sure this is a stupid question…but why was it called “Book of the Stranger”?
Castle Black (A): Yeah, this was good stuff, from the big-ticket reunion to Tormund’s glorious reaction shots to Brienne. If there’s one niggle I have here, it’s that there’s so much to be said between Jon and Sansa that you almost imagine the writers being unable to write such a conversation that wouldn’t take up most of the episode, and as a result there’s some stuff I’d have really wanted to see. Does she know about the White Walkers now, and Jon coming back from the dead? Both of those would be pretty major, for a character who has conspicuously had nothing to do with the supernatural for five seasons. But anyway, I’m pleased.
Runestone (D): Ugh, in the midst of an episode that ranged from pretty solid to great in other plots, this was just a reminder of how stupid the plotting can get at points. Littlefinger’s plan is, if I’m following this, to show up and claim Sansa was abducted, but to not even pretend to be concerned about it (he literally starts the conversation by distributing gifts like a visiting uncle), and then to tacitly admit to Royce that he’s up to no good and then threaten Royce with immediate execution even though they’re in his castle. Where are Royce’s men? Why, as soon as Littlefinger leaves, would Royce not go get his men and the other lords and then cut Baelish’s head off? Like, this is an attempt to justify the Valemen going North that is actively dumber than if the Valemen had just bought Littlefinger’s story about Sansa being abducted.
Meereen (B+): It’s fine. The interactions with Tyrion, Grey Worm and Missandei were a lot more compelling this time around.
Vaes Dothrak (A-): I was kind of expecting the climactic temple scene to cut to Jorah and Daario outside with empty cans of gasoline, considering how fast that place went up, but yeah, that was pretty cool. I like that Jorah was visibly deteriorating in his fight scene.
Winterfell (B-): At least they got that over with quickly. I was physically relieved when Ramsay stabbed Osha and she died.
Iron Islands (B+): Theon found a ship to take him home somewhere, I see. Anyway, quick scene, great acting.
Jon already knows Bran and Rickon are alive — well, he never mentioned Rickon, but one can assume he knew. I’d have liked to see him hear about Arya, just because he hasn’t mentioned her since Season 1, unless I’m forgetting something.
Anyone know where Bronn is? I miss his witticisms…
I’ve legit been crying over Jonsa/Jansa for about three hours now ……. I’m no even ashamed pal. Strangely, the name for it here is Jansa, whereas tumblr is almost exclusively Jonsa, so it’s always a culture shock to see Jansa lmao.
DragonWench39,
I would guess it was sometime between the cut. It seems like Sansa and Jon were together for a good few hours between her arriving and the scene in his room.
Really great recap. Tormund and Brienne. Swoon.
I think your last point, about character moments, versus set piece moments, actually stumbles upon something bigger story wise. Danny doesn’t have family like the Starks have each other. All her relationships are business for the most part, so to speak.
I think the High Sparrow is setting up Cersei. I do not think he told Tommen about the supposed wlak of shame just to “share” with the boy king. I think HS KNEW Tommen would take it back to his mother. And, I wouldn’t be surprised if the counsel – Kevan, Pycell, Olenna who all hate Cersei – cooked this up in cahoots with the HS. Keep Tommen as figure head, and the real power for themselves.
I also wonder if the High Sparrow’s story to Margery has some clues either to his past, or his future plans. It spans the title of the episode after all, and they spent quiet a few minutes on it.
overall, great episode. Lots to rewatch.
Lisa0527,
Margaret mentions it in her scene with the High Sparrow, referring to a holy text, but someone who knows the minutiae can better explain what it means than I can.
The preview for Episode 5 shows a teleporting Littlefinger. Or teleporting LF and Sansa. Whatever the case, not happy about that.
I enjoyed the reunion; Jon’s PTSD? Not so much.
We can see that Mel is not going to make it out of this season alive or, undead, or whatever she is. Shireen Baratheon is a score that will have to be settled; only Life can pay for Death.
I enjoyed Daenerys scene but it is also pretty clear that we are just off the reservation now in terms of books and TV series. I guess the greatest thing about that is that we are getting our fix while still avoiding spoilers, because there is no way that GRRM resolves the Dothraki like that.
I enjoyed the scene though.
Seconded.
yes, I think it was implied, and we were to infer, that the two had already caught up and filled each other in. Sansa also was not surprised about what Jon has been through.
These KL sequences desperately need Bronn to just come on screen once in a while and say “It’s Jaime Fookin’ Lannister” just to invigorate the KL mood up a bit…
“Pivotal” would be the word to describe that episode. It feels like the whole series just shifted.
I had high hopes. This one definitely did not disappoint.
I think Jerome Flynn was filming the fourth season of Ripper Street (where he’s a lead) at the same time GoT was filming last fall, so that may have been an issue. He’s definitely in this season, but not until later. Strictly speaking, he hasn’t really been needed for any scenes if we’re being honest here.
Great recap Sue!!
I thoroughly enjoyed this episode… particularly (besides Jansa!) the mating ritual of Tormund 🙂
Great episode with a stunning finale. Nice to see Dany having to act herself rather than relying on others/Drogon.
I did see a few criticisms in the other thread, which I’m too tired to address now, but I will say this: this show is “Game of Thrones”, it is not “A Song of Ice and Fire”. I don’t care if someone is more powerful in GoT, I don’t care if someone is killed off earlier in GoT. I care about quality storytelling that makes sense within the context of the show. Everything in this episode met that criterium. I don’t give a shit what happens/would happen “in the books”, and find the tedious comparisons bizarre. I love the books and the TV show, but I understand that they are different and why they are different.
Some people are going to be upset when TWOW is published, and even more upset when the series isn’t finished. Thankfully D&D are working their socks off to give us a completed TV series.
My full thoughts on the episode, and what I liked/didn’t like will come later, but I felt I had to get this off my chest (don’t worry I won’t mention those books again in this thread).
This episode was amazing.
Oh he’s setting Cersei up alright. He will cook it all down to releasing Margaery while having Tommen publicly commit to a trial of his Mother in return.
Because the High Sparrow knows she will choose a trial by combat and believes he has the winning horse.
The problem for the High Sparrow is that if Loras kills himself, a free Margaery — and a Margaery free of Cersei and Kevan and Pycelle — is going to ensure that the Faith Militant is wiped from Westeros.
I, for one, look forward to that episode; whether it is this season or next. But it’s coming.
The title should have been Sisters or something along that theme (I know Sisters sound dull, but so do Home), not some chapter from Seven Pointed Star which no one cares about.
Jon and Sansa are so hot together. Yeah, I said it! Loved the reunion even more on second watch. I’m starting to dig Jon’s cautious, almost pacifist demeanor. I don’t believe many expected him to be this way after he returned. Maybe he will be the uniter, the voice of reason, and bridge between ice and fire?
Dany was about what was expected. I was hoping for Drogon. Maybe not to save her, but at least to show up. Don’t care about her being fireproof in the show. This was obvious back in season 1. No need to moan about it now. Ok, she has the Dothraki and Unsullied. Off to Westeros, Khaleesi! Like pronto!
Jorah’s spank bank is full for the forseeable future.
Ramsay Stu can go ahead and get dead.
I can buy Theon’s last remaining purpose being to support his sister. I would like to see him smile again.
Meereen was pretty decent. Much more so than usual. Can’t wait for the new hot red priestesses.
Bronze Yohn Royce’s voice is so damn irritating.
Overall, I’d rate this episode behind 2 and 3, ahead of 1. Episode 5 looks interesting. Can’t wait for the return of Bran, and as mentioned, the new red priestess. Hopefully Mel gets some time with Jon in this episode too.
Me too! I was never an admirer of Margaery, but today’s episode changed that.
No you are right they are, thats why i cant wait how that plays out, its got so much potential. Jansa/Jonsa
I think there will be a trial by combat, but also something more sinister too. not sure exactly how it plays out. But overall, I agree with you. And, more than Margery, Danny is on her way to Westeros. So, HS is not long for this world. thank the gods
Nothing wrong in you missing that, because it was mentioned during High Sparrow’s droning to Margaery. The holy book of the Seven is called Seven Pointed Star, and ‘Book of the Stranger’ is a part of that text. Like Genesis and all in the Bible. Margaery says Septa Unella reads it ‘at her’.
Great episode. I thought everything was fantastic (except for meereen) which was still good. Season 6 has been great. Does anybody else think it could possibly top season 4 like d & d said? I though episodes one and three this season were solid and 2 and 4 were fantastic. Id say based on the first 4 episodes season 6 is slightly ahead. Two swords is a better premiere, and I’d give the slight edge to the lion and the rose, but I thought book of the stranger definitely tops oath keeper. If the show can keep this up I will be very very happy
Sue
Thanks, thought I missed something there! Now I am curious about that conversation, like Sean C. mentioned, how much does Sansa know about the threat the Others pose….!???
I think I’m going to be sitting out a bit this week on the boards. Dany didn’t shock or awe me, but I’m glad she’s getting the f outta dodge. She didn’t ruin the episode for you, your impossible expectations did.
Also I’m seeing comments about Emilia’s body, which, just shut up right now and go look in some mirrors, you douches. You can criticize the scene and not say she’s “fat as f*ck”. BE BETTER PEOPLE.
Tormienne forever and I don’t care who knows it.
Seven Hells, that was SO GOOD. My favorite episode of the season so far (and I’m loving this season to death). I think it’s one of my favorites of the entire series. Top 10 for sure. As for just how high it ranks? Well, I’ll need to watch it again, won’t I? 😉
Everywhere else I’ve checked on the Internet so far, the reaction has been almost universally ecstatic. So scrolling through the Open Chat thread, I was honestly stunned by the number of negative comments that I’ve saw about the episode. That’s not to say I’m condemning those opinions – people feel how they feel. But I’m definitely surprised, because I loved every second of “Book of the Stranger”.
Collectively, Castle Black was the highlight of the episode. I adored everything that happened there, from Jon and Sansa’s heartfelt reunion (which was perfect) to Tormund’s hilarious flirtation with Brienne at the table (that ‘ship may be new, but it’s phenomenal. Long may it reign). The Pink Letter was chilling, as was everything that happened in Winterfell before it (RIP Osha, though considering what Ramsay might have done, it was probably the cleanest end she could hope for). But the scenes in every location – the Iron Islands, King’s Landing, Meereen, the Vale – just sung for me tonight, on both viewings. I’ve seen some complaints that the middle section of the episode dragged a bit, but that wasn’t the case for me. I loved that too.
And then there was the ending scene with Dany. God, that was amazing. I was expecting Drogon to fly in and burn the temple to the ground, but this was so, so much better.
I’ll have more to say tomorrow, but I do have one position that I need to make quite clear. Over the course of the next week – and probably for as long as the show is discussed on the Internet – there is going to be a cadre of book readers who criticize the final scene on the grounds that “GRRM says that Dany actually isn’t immune to fire”. That’s fine, and that may be true in his books. People are welcome to hold that against the show, or to dislike the scene for any other reason they choose. But with respect to how that scene played out in the show and the emotional response it elicited from me, my personal feelings about that particular criticism can be summed up in five simple words: “I”. “Do”. “Not.” “Fucking.” “Care.” That scene was spectacular.
OK, that’s nine words. But you get the idea. 😉
I agree with Sue, the Jon /Sansa reunion alone made this episode for me. And it doesn’t surprise me in the least that Tormund would want Brienne haha.
DragonWench39,
Not to pile on this comment, but I don’t think that really implies they’re alive either. Even if dead, they owe it to their kin to take Winterfell back. Sansa obviously doesn’t know if Arya is alive either, so it’s not like she would be spreading that news.
Yeah….I’m seeing a lot of this reaction.
I fully agree. I mean I didn’t “hate” it, but it felt like it was condensing something bigger from the upcoming novel or something?
(shrug)
It didn’t “detract” from anything, just lacked some emotional punch, as already said.
Nice to get some joy – Sansa and Jon, Brienne and Tormund. And Brienne was a colossus today. I was wondering how all the information stew between her and Davos and Mel would play out but she intimidated them. So many good moments. Jorah and Daario had another lame conversation and the Vale stuff was hard to believe but Kings Landing was very good. My episode ratings are now 4> 2> 1> 3 but the standard has been solid overall.
Sue,
Great recap!
I share your “intense joy in watching Tormund eat in her (Brienne’s) direction with emphatic ginger eyebrows.” What made it even better? Edd’s reaction!!!
DragonWench39,
Sam told Jon that Bran was alive a while back.
Checking around the net, this has been easily the best reviewed episode of the year.
This was a strong episode all around. Better than last week’s.
I was very worried that the changes to the Greyjoys storyline the past few years (wacky raid on Dreadfort, having Theon home BEFORE the Kingsmoot) would wreck things, but the scene sold it pretty well — mostly it was just acknowledging “they would logically have a conversation about failed rescue attempt, wouldn’t they?”
But ultimately not too significantly changed or anything….yet, at least…flowed logically, and sold by strong acting, and I’m happy Yara wasn’t unsympathetic at the end.
Meereen parts also very strong, very happy to see Razdal again, political manuevering, etc.
King’s Landing Small Council parts felt like the good kind of wrangling and deal making we used to see, not just treading water.
Good to see Loras getting a great acting performance, but I want the show to ultimately give him something to do on a larger scale (though within this episode it’s fine). Good Margaery acting as you point out.
So yeah….I thought the Dothraki scenes were *pleasant* up until the final confrontation, in which it felt kind of anticlimactic…not even that, just “lack of emotional punch”, but I wonder if this is what the next novel will actually do – tonally it felt like a condensation. But it was serviceable enough that I can’t outright complain that it “detracted” or anything.
….Obviously Sansa’s storyline has been heavily condensed but all of her scenes with Jon were great.
LOVED that we got some followup on Brienne with Davos and Melisandre. Brienne has already, ALREADY had more to do this season than last season.
….merging the Pink Letter into the TV show this way is more of an arc complaint, not for this episode in and of itself, and after last week was kind of predicted as the route they’re taking. Fair enough.
The only possible point of contention is killing off Osha.
To be honest, for the episode, it worked, and felt logical – under torture Theon would assuredly have told Ramsay how Osha broke the Stark boys out in the first place and is entirely loyal to them.
This ties into the more broad question: it isn’t “well, once Sansa was married to Ramsay, of course he’d rape her” but “why marry Sansa to Ramsay in the first place?”
So we can’t just ask “Did Osha’s death make sense in this episode?” but “did it make sense to merge Rickon and Osha in the TV version in such a way that they’re Ramsay’s prisoners?”
…can’t really say without knowing what Rickon gets up to in the next novel on Skagos.
However:
1 – We kind of knew Skagos would get condensed out.
2 – This kind of fits with how spearwives infiltrating Winterfell worked in the novels, many died.
3 – …TV-Osha was already VERY significantly different from book-Osha since Season 1.
So….I’m more worried about the season-long decision to merge Rickon with …Mance Rayder?…to make Rickon Ramsay’s prisoner and kill Shaggydog. Frankly I’m more upset about Shaggydog.
But no strong complaints about this *specific* episode.
Oh, one: GOLD HONORS are measured in the THOUSANDS. They’re…they’re like the pesos of Planetos, or the yen. One dwarf slave is not worth ONE Gold Honor! Five THOUSAND for a pair of fighting slaves is thought to be insultingly *low*.
Otherwise my thoughts are line for line with Sue’s.
Lyanna_Targaryen,
Hmm. I have not seen one criticism of Emilia’s body here. But she’s not fat, I don’t get it. Anyways, yeah those kind of remarks would be annoying but as for reading different opinions on how people want events to play out, that doesn’t bother me at all. It’s kind of normal that everybody won’t like the same things. I don’t let other people’s views dampen my own enjoyment of something.
Meeren was well done IMO. It shows the dirty complex morally difficult side of ruling.
Well my thoughts are ambivalent – basically:
1 – My immediate reaction was “maybe something magic will happen AGAIN to make her immune to fire” and shrug.
2 -…the scene seems kind of condensed in such a way that I don’t think it’s exactly as the novel does it, but it is at least self-consistent.
I mean by the same logic….in early seasons Bran didn’t have Greensight visions ALL the time, AT WILL, but that didn’t prevent them from still occurring at convenient times as the plot required.
I’m more worried about other changes.
Well, that was amazing. GREAT season so far.
Best parts: Tormund and Brienne, Margaery and Loras, and seeing Osha one last time (love love love her, sniff)
I am ready to strangle Jaime for continuing as Cersei’s sheep, following her around like a puppy. Are they really not going to change this?
My least favourite episode of the season, 5/10 and 4 of those points were for Tormund. 🙂
Also….is there a reason for the man bun? No, really. Does it symbolize the new Jon? The other NW men seem to know it’s already out of style. Ned had a half-ponytail thing. But why the man bun? Is he disassociating from him hair? Distinguishing himself as not part of the Watch and seeing things more clearly without the locks in his face? Embarrassed that Mel clipped his hair in an uneven fashion? So many questions.
Ok first of the Wall:
The reunion was sweet as was Sansa`s apoligy for “mistreating” Jon in their youth.
Ramsey doesn`t want his Reek back? Has he forgoten about him already?
Reading the Pink Letter while having a quiet lunch is kinda underwhelming. That and Jon´s lame reaction to it. I tought he would go crazy when he reads it but he was so depressed (even more than he was before) it takes Sansa to encourage him on!?
Osha got it easy knowing Ramsey.
2000 on 5000 ? It confirms that estimate that the Stark army will be twice as small as Boltons.
Mereen i found enjoyable for the first time.
Dany “rescuing” herself using flamethrower fire holders 🙂 LOL was i guess better than Drogon coming to the rescure for the third time. Seeing her tits again made it better for me.
King Landing was boring as was the Iron Islands.
P.S.
When was the last time in the tv show that someone sent a message by raven, or even mentioned it? It used to be one of the main catch lines of the tv show that got into mainstream….
Beautiful opening shot of Longclaw. Just had to say it.
ygritte,
Not on this thread. The Internet at large. It’s depressing.
You’re not going to serve
[Valar Dohaeris]
You’re going to die
[Valar Morghulis]
And an unknowing burnt offering of 15 to R’hllor
Jared,
I agree! Next time’s what? The Kingsmoot and Bran learns something about the Night’s King? I can’t wait, the show’s moving at such a speed now.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
I agree about KL and II. But you lost me when you got vulgar about Dany. I’ll take a pass on that type of attitude.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
“Reading the Pink Letter while having a quiet lunch is kinda underwhelming. That and Jon´s lame reaction to it. I tought he would go crazy when he reads it but he was so depressed (even more than he was before) it takes Sansa to encourage him on!?”
Yes this! I watched it again and still not liking it. Jon is too laid back, all the fire gone out of him. His reaction just didn’t ring true for me. Also, just sitting around the table quietly eating and a comment even about the food and how it’s “not important” if the food isn’t good. What are D and D trying to do, taking the “epic” quality out of the very things that would hold up to it and are expected.I cannot even believe that I would be enjoying Dany more than my boy Jon at this point 🙁
Plus they are trying their hardest it seems to downplay the rez. Not even a communication between Jon and Mel by now? He doesn’t have questions for her, really??
ON a happier note I did love that the reunion played out the it did, with surprise and warm embrace 🙂
Sansa and Jon are reunited, and you’re banging on about his man bun? Huh.
Loved the episode the Sansa and Jon stuff was so great I can’t even believe it! I liked season five a lot and don’t agree with many of the complaints.Everything they did made sense and was well executed.My only problem with it was that it was too dark and depressing basically nothing good happened.I understand that it was part of the story and made for good tv but boy am I enjoying this season.It has drama but also the promise of payback I love it so much
Lyanna_Targaryen,
I see what you mean, on one particular site it seems there are quite a few narrow-minded teenage basement dwellers. Nobody should give any import to what they say. IRL Emilia seems pretty wholesome and girl next door type. I like that about her.
It’s not the books but it sure is entertaining as hell! Great episode.
Did Tyrion just sell the Great Masters the Brooklyn Bridge? It sure seemed like it!
OTP? Somebody help an old guy out.
Also, can we stop with the combining of names already? Damn that shit is irritating.
Jonsa? Jansa? Who cares? They are siblings, not fucking. But we can quit with it for people that are fucking too. It’s like when the media throws “gate” at the end of the newest “scandal”. It is lazy, unoriginal, and played out at this point.
Are the 2 related? Huh.
But yes, although that was meant to be mostly humourous, it does make me wonder who decided that was the thing to do, considering how many people ‘bang on about’ his hair so bloody much.
OTP? Somebody help an old guy out.
Also, can we stop with the combining of names already? Damn that shit is irritating.
Jonsa? Jansa? Who cares? They are siblings, not fucking. But we can quit with it for people that are fucking too. It’s like when the media throws “gate” at the end of the newest “scandal”. It is lazy, unoriginal, and played out at this point.
Fancy word for a sellsword,
Right? I feel like everyone is getting into place for an epic end of the series. The board has been set, pieces have been strategically placed, now it’s time to play chess! (Er… Perhaps the true game of thrones? )HAR
ygritte,
I’m not seeing them either, maybe they were deleted? But yeah, definitely not fat.
Does anyone else think this season is already better than season 5? I think this season so far has been really really good.
One thing I noticed about that cozy little dinner at Castle Black: There was someone representing the following:
Jon – Targaryen heir (he will be.)
Sansa – Stark heir
Brienne – Baratheon loyalist
Pod – Lannister loyalist
Edd – of the Night’s Watch
Tormund – of the Freefolk
Only Mormont’s raven is missing to represent greenseers and CoTF
For me, this season became better than season 5 when they showed young Lyanna.
Also I love Jon post resurrection.I like that he is basically like I just want to be warm and fuck this shit lol.Of course he needs convincing,if you were revived would you be so willing to basically just go and die again.It’s only family that gives him reason
How did the ground catch fire? Just kicking over braziers doesn’t generally set earth on fire. Even if the place was carpeted (which it wasn’t) how did it spread so fast? Only explanation I could think of was it’s wild fire, but where the hell did she get wild fire?
dwm,
The WotW Facebook page comments on this ep are particularly icky by one gentlemen.
And by looking at Ep 5 preview we see that Littlefinger teleport is still active since he came to the north before the whole Vale army and managed to find Sansa in some shack in the woods!!!
Maybe he´s some kind of a wizard like a creepy Gandalf. That and only that would explain it. 🙂
Dany is not going to any scene like what we got of Jon and sansa or yara and theon..
She does not have anyone who is called as family…the only one she had abused her and sold her for an army ..
That’s why it hurt her so much to know about jorah’s betrayal..
Only moments dany could have had similar to this is when she thinks about house with red door or as a little girl running towards stretched arms of ser willem ..she did have some of those with jorah and missandei and barristan but those have been omitted in the show ..
So this is one of side that make me feel for dany …she doesn’t have anyone to run into or solemnly believe in and no one wants her for who she is but only for her dragons .
Tits are vulgar? Would bobbies make it better lol?
Pigeon,
Look at the pic of Jonsa hugging in this recap. He needed to wear a bun otherwise Sansa would’ve had his gel-filled hair all up in her face.
Lyanna_Targaryen,
Oh tell me about it ..I knee how responses will be in here and westeros.org ..
But when I went to imdb yesterday to check anything have leaked and only found ten or so threads about emilia being fat
ygritte,
By chance, did you wish Jon’s resurrection was more epic in nature, say waking up from his funeral pyre or something similar? I get it. We all had pre-conceived notions about how Jon would be when he returned from the dead, and most of us expected a ruthless and feral Jon, who had spent time trapped in Ghost’s conscience and become part of the beast. But in a season where people are saying that it is becoming too predictable, Jon’s aversion to fighting and cautious approach is a true surprise, and it is one I am growing to like. The idea that Jon may be the peacemaker between ice and fire is starting to make a lot of sense. Obviously he will fight, but in the end there will likely need to be a truce, and not just one side annihilating and extinguishing the other.
So, the new GoT couple is #TarthBane.
Especially when he knows that there is apparently nothing after death! I like how the writers have handled post-rez Jon too. Less God-like, more human. I have no doubts he will get his motivation back, it does not matter if it takes him an episode or two to get there.
And I loved assertive, confident Sansa too! Jonsa/ Jansa 2016!!
Pigeon,
Sorry, you lose tone in text 🙂 I get what you’re saying, about Jon changing his appearance, but I thought it makes sense for him to put on the last clothes he had on when he entered “prison”, so to speak; If he’s not a brother anymore, he’s gotta take off the uniform and should put his old clothes on. Seemed logical to me. He wants to separate from CB, from the place in which he tried to help and was betrayed. I’d want a fucking makeover too.
(And as someone whose had a wide variety of hair lengths, his new cut probably didn’t tuck so well behind his ears yet so the half up bun is a hairstyle that is practical and can be explained away as a common northern men’s style. Bet you there’s bobby pins in there.)
ygritte,
I agree about Jon and Melisandre! They need a long scene together with him asking some questions. It doesn’t make sense that you wouldn’t be curious about the person who brought you back to life.
Also the glamour thing, will this somehow be of importance in the future?
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Not the word, I swear like a sailor; just that attitude, “at least I saw her naked”. Just makes me sigh. But, carry on as you were.
Maybe that’s the inn at the crossroads 😀
Not right now maybe, but one day she will?? 🙂 Of course, there is no saying how that meeting might go, whether they will be together or opposed to each other!
Yeah, Dany’s back-story is the most humanizing and sympathetic factor about her character for me.
Looking back I can’t imagine how close I got with my prediction regarding dany scenes..
But still feel like there should have been more time spent on building up the tension and shock on khals face when dany touched the brazier ..those fires when khal moro died looked like some cheap Cgi used in the movies ..it didnt look like game of thrones ..
But other than that loved it ..Emilia delievered or what ..
PS jorah just can’t keep his eyes down right .,he just takes advantage of everytime he gets to see his khalessi naked ..even back in season he can’t keep his eyes down when everyone was and same here again
dragonbringer,
If only he would know it’s her head attached to another body.
Ha, that’s great! I thought that the third master in the room was the representative from Volantis, but I’d missed the fact that he’d been named until now. First Wun Wun, now Belicho. We may be mostly past the books, but Benioff and Weiss are taking great care to incorporate one the most critical Easter eggs from GRRM’s ASOIAF into the show – the surreptitious references to his favorite and least favorite football teams! 😉
My favorite episode of all time. Simply brilliant.
Kind of sad that there will be no more of khal moro and Joe
Really liked him in his brief presence .
You called it. Nice job. I’m wondering if we’ll see Drogon next episode since he wasn’t in the preview.
Never, I repeat, never hug a Bolton.
Will they never learn???
dragonbringer,
Yeah i can’t stand Dany in her bitch mode. Killing everyone isn’t the way to gain respect. Can’t imagine her sitting on the iron throne. Maybe she sacrifices herself and the dragons in the fight against the Others.
Wow…whenever I think that this site has re-deemed itself with the wonderful curtain calls for the cast, you come and read this and some of the comments here and wow…
“What do you think about this Stewie?!”
“Not good, Brian, not good…”
Well at least Maester Pycelle’s terrified fart makes up for all the rest of the shit…
What do you mean “redeemed itself”?
Jack Bauer 24,
I think he will be in the episode 6 blood of my blood ..
That will be when dany start marching towards meereen ..
And that shot of drogon is dany is on top of drogon i am calling it …dany motions the khalsar to move forward by flying drogon over them .
JonFookinSnow,
Some people never learn or understand do they ..
Or maybe they are seeing different scene..
In the scene i watched there was a group of khals who were happily saying to her face they will rape her and then let their khalasar rape her and then their horsea too .
She was CGI naked this time right?? But naked all the same. My kind of woman! When she is a brunette, I find 0 attractive. Yes, it seems I have a blonde fetish
Do you think Dany will be in the next episode?
I agree on both counts. I’m excited for Dany to finally get to Westeros!
I really did like Dany’s moment, even though I was far more emotionally invested in Sansa and Jon meeting once more. That was the Daenerys Missandei had made such careful observations on and I loved it. My full thoughts.
dragonbringer,
The scene was terrible. It’s always so easy for Daenerys to get what she wants, isn’t it?
And those Khals, aren’t they supposed to be badass warriors? But they couldn’t stay focused and try to find a way out this wooden hut instead of running around and screaming like little girls?
Visually stuning yes, but nothing else.
Great recap as usual. Ladies Night. Love. 🙂
First: For anyone still complaining about the female characters taking the lead this episode… Have you seen this show? None of this is out of the blue. None of these women are new characters. They’ve all been there dealing with extraordinary circumstances for 6 seasons, and losing the men who thought they were running things as they went-or surviving psychopaths. So hush.
I was right about Dany and the fire. I just knew it. I’m not going to say she’s a great ruler, because let’s be honest…but she conquers like a boss. It’s her signature move. She’s a walking heavy metal album cover when she conquers. Dracarys.
PS the people who think that was too cheesy. Find another way for her, a tiny little woman without a horse, to take over every single khalasar in one fell stroke in one episode so she can get back on her story path and some day make it to Westeros without being “rescued”. AND for anyone saying the first time was blood magic…wasn’t this? All the khals. All the Dothraki kings basically being burned alive. Anyway you slice it, this was a power play that won her absolute authority and got rid of guys who couldn’t form a sentence without threatening to rape someone. Yay fire.
King’s Landing–Cersei is still too calm. How long is she planning on holding those crazy cards? We know it’s happening. Also yes, High Sparrow absolutely playing his own game here. Loras really wants to die and Marg wins at holding out against the High Sparrow and Septa of Shame. Still growing strong, you pompous old windbags.
Super Evil Ramsay being super evil and killing a fantastic character, crushing my dreams and making me nervous and just tired of his leer. Ugh.
Mereen-Tyrion is nation building but I’m not sure he’s explaining himself well enough for Missendei and Greyworm. I saw Varys share that look with her. No one knows how to get out of this knot. Release the Kraken…and those dragons.
Now I don’t know who will try and kill who first. Daario or Jorah. Also, are we noticing how winded he got walking up the hill? Last season he was a badass in the arena. Greyscale moves fast. Nooooooo
Yara and Theon-great acting. When he saw his home and looked down like he didn’t deserve to see it… Amazing.
Now that that’s out of the way, CASTLE BLACK was everything tonight.
I cried. I have not been a Sansa lover in the past but I cried when they saw each other. That hug reminded me so much of when he said goodbye to Arya, and the first episodes in Winterfell. It was an intense moment.
It’s very jarring to feel Edd’s disappointment and see Sansa’s disbelief when he ignores the WW threat and what the Bolton’s have done and…hesitates. It was jarring. No matter what’s happened he is still a good guy and not a “So long, I’ll be on a tropical island until the world ends” type of man. But he’s lost. He’s still in recovery for heaven’s sake. HE DIED. Worse, he was murdered by people he trusted.
While we’re on the subject–I know we had a lot to cover but is Sansa really cool with everything we assume he told her off camera? Zombie army? Resurrection?
“Yeah that’s great and all. Let me tell you about MY day” lol
But other than me wondering about that, it was fantastic. They laughed and remembered old Nan and she apologized for being a spoiled little princess-which she totally was. And then she got this light in her eyes that I’ve never seen in this actress and started talking about taking it back. I don’t know if her vow with Brienne and/or seeing an actual living family member since the end of season one did it, but she just became the character I’d always hoped she would be. As soon as Jon snaps out of that murder ptsd I think they’ll be a badass team. (imo no not that kind of team. Eww. I don’t care how pretty they are.)
Mel is basically running away from Davos at the mention of Stannis but Brienne is not holding back. I want Davos and Brienne to like each other, darn it! But of course it was going to be awkward at first. Shadow baby assassins can spoil any party.
The dinner was epic from moment one-epic in it’s simplicity and body language. Now I’m a huge “I-will-cut-you” Braime fan. Their relationship in season 3 and in the books was…well it was my favorite thing. BUT for show purposes? That look on Tormund’s face when she came to CB and her hilt grab-then the way he makes her squirm and frown at dinner (he smiles when she does this-like she’s adorable-which I think she is) That was the best. I want them to flirt/fight. Or for someone to tell Brienne that he’s actually flirting, because I don’t think it has legitimately ever happened to her before. Maybe Sansa will mention it. Or Pod. He notices everything.
The letter! It wasn’t pink but it was chilling. Come and see. He is his own horror movie and he needs to be destroyed.
So…to sum up. Who runs the world? Girls, and that’s a good thing. Happy moments on Game of Thrones. It’s been so long since we’ve even cracked a smile, I think we’re still in shock. Genuine attraction without motive can happen in this world? Humor without cynicism and a glass of wine can happen in Westeros? Family reunions and fireside chats that don’t end in poison? Blows the mind. The one tiny northern cloud. Osha is the first person to die this season that I cared about. We didn’t even get to find out what they went through since they left Bran or anything. But I might have high-fived the air when Jon nodded, agreeing to gather the loyal North against Ramsay. The North is finally starting to remember.
Preview freak out: LF is fast at traveling…and that face. He totally knew about Ramsay. Don’t lie. His northern friends might be the Umbers for all I know-which would mean he is responsible for all of the Stark suffering. Ned, Cat and Robb, Sansa, Bran’s attempted assassination and now Rickon’s capture…is he really that crafty? And why?
Varys and the red priestess-she knows something!
Bran-HOLY *&$!… Does anybody else have the feeling he jumped on the vision train without BR’s help or knowledge? Did he stay too long and now the NK knows he’s watching? Will he get out intact?
Is it next week yet?
Jack Bauer 24,
I hope she is in because the episode is ended with her So they should follow it up with her ..
And she as already missed episode 2 so incase if she is sitting out of episode 9 then she as to appear in the remaining episodes to male it into her usual 8 episodes per season ..
And last but not least an episode named door and dany not being present will be a huge mistake …no one is related to a door in the books than dany .
So this is the second episode I watched live on HBO GO during a Jetblue flight. Hat’s off to the people that make that work.
Beyond that I loved the episode. I was wondering if the Lazareen khaleesi made the temple more flamable, because I wouldn’t go in there if I knew it was a death trap. I mean egress points weren’t to spec but still… every khal in a super-flamable building full of brazier lighting? Regardless, loved every minute of this episode. Well done!
Many moments have moved me in GOT but none like the painfully sweet: ¨Egg,I dreamed that I was old¨ from Maester Aemon´s deathbed and now,the Jon and Sansa reunion; I thought it was beautifully portrayed! I teared just seeing the way they ran to embrace each other after their initial shock
Dany is fireproof. Feels great to be vindicated.
Great episode! Not as good as the last one but better then 1 and 2 in my opinion.
Meereen: Was great. Tyrion is as funny and witty as always.
KL: A bit suprised I liked it this much. Marg scenes with Loras/HS were amazing. Pryce yet again knocks me off my feet.
WF: Iwan was strong as always. Glad he remembered what Theon told him. Sad to see Osha, mostly because of the actress.
CB: Top-notch!! Sansa meeting Jon was amazing. Hope Davos doesn’t find about Shireen, it will kill him.. Sansa and Jon were simply amazing together.
And LOL at Tormund eyeing Brienne!
Only complaint is the PT. I thought it was strong and Jon’s reaction was great. He isn’t the kind of guy to rage and yell. I just wanted Iwan to narrate the latter because I love his voice.. It was still great though.
Vale: Good to have Petyr back and I loved how he didn’t give a fuck about Royce. He simply manipulated Robin. I like that he is older and his word commands respect.
VD: What is left to say? Simply amazing. Also feels good to be right.
dragonbringer,
Dany haters and purists. Pay them no mind. They aren’t worth it.
Mihnea,
Forgot about Theon/Yara. Loved the reunion!!
I did guess that Theon would help Yara’s claim and not push his own. It simply fits.
Mihnea,
I don’t hate her! I just wish her storyline would be more realistic and intersting. And that she would finally start to act like a actual queen. When was the last time that Dany made a good decision?
Don’t go assuming things about some anonymous person on the internet.
I think it’s interesting that Jon tells Sansa “your father’s ghost.” Setting up subtly again that Ned isn’t his father. Could’ve just said “Father” like Jon did when talking to the boys or Arya.
Also the fact that he says “where WE’RE going” – I don’t know that he’ll send her off alone to the Vale or to recruit northerners, not after getting the Pink Letter and reading Ramsay’s threats against her. They’ll go together
JonFookinSnow,
Right now. She got a Dothraki army.
I CALLED IT!!! And even before the new photos got out! I’m a greenseer! Proof!
No seriously, I would love to see them banter (and more?). Tormund deserves a woman who is just as fierce as he is, and Brienne deserves a man who is comfortable enough in his manliness and not stuck on Southern perceptions of what’s beautiful to see her as desireable. I ship it.
“Three fires must you light…”
This is Dany’s 2nd. She must light one more.
That’s right! In a totally unrealistic situation that worked out 200 percent in her favor.
Also I loved how the show paused and took a few beats, had Sansa stand stock still while Jon walks down slowly to her, and for a second they both just stand there, not like wildly running to each other. Just letting those two register each other and the shock on Jon’s face… Wow
di,
We all ship.
Did we decided on a name for our new ship?
JonFookinSnow,
LOL. You guys no longer even bother me. You are hilarious.
She clearly has Jorah, Daario and the young DK to help her.
Don’t bother replying to me.
dragonbringer,
I find it amusing when they call Dany mad. The Dothraki threatened to rape her and give her to their horses….
Mihnea,
I think Tormienne is the most popular one going around ?!
Mihnea,
Well,our last ship was JANSA… Now we need one for Tormund and Brienne!!
ghost of winterfell,
I would sail that ship..
I absolutely LOVED it, and can’t wait for a second viewing tonight!
I so agree with Sue and all the parallel sister-brother scenes, with the sisters being the strong, assertive & motivational ones. And the Stark reunion was just tone-perfect, I was a (very grateful) slobbering mess. This was a 6-year payoff we just witnessed, and it was so damn worth it! (multiply that by a million when Jon & Arya -hopefully – reunite). Very, very strong stuff and wonderfully handled. I am so excited for this season and all the even more awesomeness that’s coming up!
I gather quite a few peeps are criticizing Daeny’s big scene, but how else should it have played out? How else would a small, powerless, horseless female prisoner manage to get out and get the Dothraki behind her, other than fire power, something superhuman? And of her own making, not with Drogon’s help again (thank the gods for that!). Of course it’s not as strong and new and unique as the birth of the dragons scene for us viewers, but you have to see it from the eyes of all those Dothraki. And Daario.
Also, Tormund & Brienne PERFECTION. Or a Tormund, Brienne & Bear threesome??? :p
AlexG,
JONSA you filfhty heretic..
Nadia,
He doesn’t say “your father’s ghost”, he says “if I don’t watch over you, father’s ghost…”. But Kit Harington kinda rushes through the line, so I understand if people hear it differentely.
Just rewatched Sansa and Jon again. Damn this hits hard.. I almost cried.
D&D have my eternal gratitude because they actually gave Sansa a story.
I really disliked her in the books and thought her story was among the worst.
But they managed to turn her into one of my favourite characters!
I love Dany, always did always will, but I’m much more excited for Sansa’s story! Loved Dany last night, hope she starts getting into the endgame soon.
Liked the episode, would’ve wanted to see Jon and Sansa talk about stuff that wasn’t relevant to the plot, like where Arya is. The reunion was perfect, though, and well written, although I’m failing to understand why Jon had to be persuaded by Sansa to go save Rickon from Ramsay. I get that he’s lost his will to fight anyone (I really don’t like that development, though I guess it might make more sense in the future when he tries to bring the different players in Westeros together to fight the white walkers), but he should want to save Rickon.
Also, I don’t understand what they’re doing with the Mel/Jon plotline. People, “show don’t tell”, how hard can it be? We should understand and see why Mel thinks Jon’s the PTWP, having Mel repeatedly just say she thinks he’s the prince that was promised isn’t very compelling storytelling.
Now I’m picturing a slow night at Castle Black, dozens of men gathered around tables, delicately making bobby pins and comparing them to each other’s. ……I think I need sleep. 😉
I don’t blame Jon for acting differently, not being up for a fight from the get go. I had the flu recently and couldn’t even garner enough energy to do laundry for a week. Imagine being dead for a bit! That’d take the wind out of your sails but good.
DuckEggBlue,
Daario’s reaction was priceless. He never saw Dany and the Dragons rising from the pyre, the way Jorah did, so he always had a much more relaxed relation with her.
I can’t wait to see how he will be now!
JonFookinSnow,
Do you realise you are speaking about the only one person well apart from edmure and Jon who thinks and cares about the people under her ..
And you claim she does not act as a Queen..
Maybe you should read ADWd and ASOs how she views her queenship and how she puts herself in front for them ..
But I guess the wide view about she is terrible is popular I guess …I just want to know anyone who would have done well in meereen …that is the whole point GRRm creating mEereen that its not supposed to be ruled easily …its quite a feat to describe everything she does as terrible
But i guess its just a waste of time trying to make people understand at this stage ..for all the talk about this beimg discussion thread all are set on thekr ideals and bias and dont want to change it .
Mihnea,
I guess i just have to try even more harder to ignore …but sometimes I fail at that
Massive lol at Tormund and brienne.
What happens when he tries to “steal” her
Certainly got his work cut out for him…
….and may have just “bit off more then he could chew” as far as that last scene goes….
JonFookinSnow,
Dany saving her own life is Dany in “bitch mode”? What was she supposed to do? Let them rape her, kill her, or at best make her a prisoner for life?
Evi,
He was reborn that’s why she thinks he is TPTWP.
It’s preaty clear that his revival restored her faith in the Lord of Light.
dragonbringer,
Why are you even comparing book dany and show dany? That’s the real question here.
Sansa and Jon hugged and talked about taking back Winterfell.
Best moment of Book of the Stranger imo.
dragonbringer,
I was just like you…. Couldn’t stand some people and them presenting their opinion as fact, mostly I argued with purists, they are the worst, don’t even bother with them.
But it fills the thread with negativity and even derails it sometimes.
I do talk with people that have different opinion, we had a debate couple of days ago, but I try really hard to see that persons previous posts, tone and how polite he expresses his opinion, to see if it’s worth to engage a disscussion.
RG,
“As soon as Jon snaps out of that murder ptsd I think they’ll be a badass team. (imo no not that kind of team. Eww. I don’t care how pretty they are.)”
Haha but it’s going to happen! I can just sense it waiting in the wings. Heck even the way they looked at each other could be taken for foreshadowing.
Of course I’m probably wrong and I don’t know if I’d be on board with it or not…they are still related no matter who his dad is, for one thing.
What happened at the end there… that felt really weird tbh. How did the stone ground just burst into flames? Why didn’t they use the opportunity to give us an awesome Drogon scene? Why did Emilia suddenly appear nude again after the script visibly going out of it’s way to not do that in previous episodes?
dragonmcmx,
I think it’s a body double. Like Lena last year.
JonFookinSnow,
Maybe because something like show is based on books and I have read the books first and know what’s dany like..
Can we just agree to disagree here .
Mihnea,
Same here
dragonmcmx,
People don’t want Drogon. People want Drogon…. You will never please everyone.
I think Jorah and Daario helped her with the fire, the young DK also helped as the previous scene clearly implies.
Good catches aabe on the houses/lunch guests and El-Bobbie on Dany’s fires.
Notice LF mentions his friends in the north and the building he is in the preview – is it where Brienne and Pod stayed?
Regarding prophecies ..
Can we put down this stupid theory that drogon being TSWMTW …its always been dany and as I always saying dany comes before dragons like starks come before their wolves ..
So we have dany as TSWMTW ..I guess this should also make who is AAr and TPTWp clear ..but alas people will still be in denial ..
So i will wait till the series ends or atleast till Melisandre sees daenerys …beacause after seeing dany and her dragons…she will start singing a different song ..
she never learned from what she did to stannis ..she knows Jon is not the only one who as been brought back from dead yet acts like that .
And last episode ended NW as lightbringer theory …options are running out for jon snow
dragonmcmx,
The ground wasn’t stone. And it likely caught fire because they poured oil on the ground. In the last episode, we saw the lady swirling the brazier around like it was oil-based. That’s why Dany asked Daario/Jorah and the young Khaleesi for help.
And regarding the nudity, Emilia has said she didn’t want to do nudity just for the sake of nudity. So pointless sex scenes or the like was a no-go. She would do it if she felt it was important to Dany’s story. This emerging from the fire scene is obviously one of those moments.
Mihnea,
Thank you for remembering – and I noticed you being right about Dany! ?
Singedbylife,
After being insulted and called names because I believed this….You can not imagine my joy.
Top notch episode! Loved all the scenes and story lines in this one.
There seems to be way more criticism of the final scene than I would have expected. I can understand some regarding the lack of warrior like behavoir on the part of the Khals. Still that was kind of Dany’s point. I think the dialog between her and the Khals and her demeanor in that scene reemerging as true strength (the only thing Dothraki respect) was fantastic. Yeah the CGI might have been a little weak on the interior fire attack. Dumping a brazier of hot burning coals would catch a dry wood structure on fire pretty quickly but that was way faster and more than a natural fire would have accomplished. I will look past that as perhaps there is more to Dany’s fire magic than simple flame resistance. Maybe she can amplify the flames like the dragons themselves. Good enough for me. Thought the scene was epic.
Loved pink letter scene and Tormand and Ed had me LMAO! Really liked the unholy alliance setup in KL. Of course the long awaited Stark reunion. Tyrion being the dwarf Lincoln. Really liked setting up the animosity between Brieanne / Mel. Everything about the episode just worked for me…
Also. We are totaly seeing Tarly next episode!
dragonmcmx,
I think Emilia said she’ll only do it for certain scenes and I assume sexy-Daario-time is not one of those scenes. Only thing they could have done better is indeed explain a bit why these flames spread so quickly. It is obviously a very dry region, so the wood going up that quicky is actually realistic. I have seen a fire spread, and fires do spread ridiculously fast, even in stone buildings. However, it did seem like there was some kind of flammable fluid in the lighters (maybe show the Dosh Khaleen use some kind of substance or the like?).
Anyway, great episode. Loved every scene and it all had a purpose. Favourite scenes:
– High Sparrow/Margaery (How awesome is Jonathan Pryce?)
– Jon/Sansa (very emotional and well done, even acknowledging they weren’t best friends before)
– Mereen politics (everything simply makes sense and there is basically no quick good solution to their problems, glad that the writers acknowledge that)
Mihnea,
haha!! no,no,no!! Jansa won over Jonsa on our poll! 😉
So. exactly how many actors did HBO get to come back just to kill them off after 1 or 2 scenes?
koempel,
I thought they implied it preety well. Daario/Jorah and the young Dosh Khaleen helped her.
JonFookinSnow,
Nope.
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/15/game-thrones-emilia-clarke-dany
AlexG,
You filfthy scums! Herasy!
Knight of the Walkers,
Strong stuff.
dragonmcmx,
We know that Walder Frey comes back. Wonder how many episodes he will survive 😀
The dialog seemed a tad off to me.
Sansa spoke in a way that was not her, I felt her change in character more than the dialog portrayed (well done Sophie).
Fingers crossed Jon meats Ramsey in the bettle for Winterfell.
Greenjones,
Good to know
Jon 2.0 has laughed more in three days than Jon 1.0 did in his entire life and i am loving it lol
All I have to say is Dany better not turn into a wight, or else she’d be invincible.
Mihnea,
Well, they showed the doors barred, but nothing else. I have to rewatch it, but I did not see any indication of flammable fluids (which the Khals probably would have smelled) on the beaten earth floor. Obviously, there was some kind of fluid in there, the way the fire spread (that was no special effect, but a practical one) rapidly over the floor. I loved the scene, but they might have emphasised it a bit better.
Regarding the Khals, nobody wants to burn (Mance said it best) and no one expects somebody to be impervious to fire. This was not a battle they expected (they were looking forward to the gang rape), nor one they are used fighting. Those complaining about ‘bitchy’ Dany are a good example of sexism. She killed some guys who were planning a gang rape that might include bestiality.
Mihnea,
Agree with you what you said about daario ..
He is seeing this for first time ..iam guessing he just realized how lucky he has been so far .
Ok so has ANYONE figured out as to why the episode is called “Book od the stranger” ?
HS talks about a book with Marg but that is like the holy book of the 7 …
Stranger represents death in the 7 and Book of the stranger would therefore be Book of death.
JonFookinSnow,
Heh, probably one episode (I do hope they bring him in for more, to let his demise breathe a bit). Anyway, Osha’s dead was a good one. She died protecting her little lord and I assume everybody knew when she walked in that room, that she was a goner. A very in character death and a noble death indeed (for whatever that is worth). It is a testament to Tena’s portrayal (mostly in the first few seasons) that I actually felt sad after she had been off screen for so long.
Also think Emilia used a body double. Her love scenes looked ridiculous because she kept her clothes on, why would she do nudity now?
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Marg quotes from the book, when she talks with the HS.
René,
It’s not a body double, she confirmed it.
Technically, Emilia doesn’t appear nude any more. She uses a body double like many actresses/actors do once they gain a little fame.
I kinda got V for Vendetta vibes from Dany’s exit from the temple. Or it’s just me? 😛 I liked the scene btw. Good episode.
Lol they just can’t keep dany’s titles away ..right
Glad they had tyrion say her titles this time. .
So basically what tyrion did was planting olive trees..
Loved GW and missendai in this episode …looks like they are stepping up to be administrators of slavers bay
dragonbringer,
They being left behind to rule Slaver’s Bay would be a perfect ending for the characters.
I can’t see them going to Westeros.
Hiccup Targaryen,
What did you love about the Ramsay letter scene? It did not seem to have the impact I thought it would. I feel for the first time, that the acting was not it’s usual top notch here. And the way Sansa has to implore Jon that they need to rescue their brother and his unsure demeanor… I dunno, it’s almost as if there are different writers, the fluidity is off imo. I wasn’t home when the show came on so I checked this site on my phone to see what ya’ll were saying and freaked out when I read a post about Sansa and Jon reunion. Couldn’t wait to get home and put on the DVR. Maybe I was just a little let down at the rest of the episode at CB.
Fine episode but I liked 2 and 3 more. Now I have to list a couple things that annoy me.
1. Why does Jon Snow have to become such a wuss after his resurrection. It is pathetic that Sansa has to talk him into taking back Winterfell and saving his little brother.
2. Adian Gillian voice still annoys me and I keep hoping every season he will go back to his season 1 performance but it looks like that is never going to happen.
I also think they probably confused a lot of people with the Lancel reference. Most casual viewers don’t know Lancel by name and certainly don’t know he is Kevan’s son. Most don’t even know who the hell Kevan is. They probably think Cersei was referring to Loras considering the scene that came before it and now think Kevan is his dad. I know that sounds ridiculous but if you ever talk with casual viewers about the show, particular older ones, they really struggle with the names and minor characters and how they relate to everyone . If they are going to mention Lancel they should make sure to remind the audience who he is and that he is Kevan’s son.
Mihnea,
HOnestly I don’t know why people care so much if it was or not.
Yes, read that statement just now, but can’t delete my previous comment.
I admire Emilia’s professionality!
ygritte,
Jon is simply a realist, he doesn’t refuse to save Rickon, he simply knows he hasn’t enough men. And like he himself said, he is tired of fighting.
The first time it is a refusal, he doesn’t want WF he just wants to rest.
I actually love this Jon. I would have been beyond dissapointed if he came back as a stronger, meaner person who wants to retake WF.
Not going to comment on the acting, this is was to subjective and personal to be worth arguing over. I myself liked it.
best part of the episode was definitely the stark reunion. The wall scenes have been great this season.
Yeah and DAny, I am kind of getting tired of all the worshipping for her.
No, viewers shoudn’t be treated like children! Also, viewers can pause the broadcast and google Lancel.
JamesL,
He is tired, he himself says it. He is tired of fighting.
I think its a great development, as I said, if Jon would have come back as a vengeful badass, who wants to take WF I would have been very dissapointed.
Death changed him. It made him lose a bit of that sense of Honor he had and made him much more careful then he was before.
And of course sad and depressed…death will do that to you..
René,
Lancel is the only named Sparrow and right in that scene they said he was Kevan’s son.
It was very well explained. If people didn’t knew before they know now.
taim,
I love the Dany worshiping.
It mirrors very nicely Jon’s revival and people thinking he is a god.
Mihnea,
I’ve been saying that since long before this season!
But first, Tyrion, like the US’ Abraham Lincoln, has to learn that some things, such as slavery, are non-negotiable. And so, Daenerys has to break the back of Slavers’ Bay again. No mercy. Fire and blood.
Danys plot has been boring so far, this episode was the first time it was actually ok. so dont understand your problem.
I think actually that we will see some change in JOn later on again, he is reluctant now but I think he will be much tougher at the end of the season. And there will be stell the TOJ reveal of course.
it seems emilia was tired of wearing clothes all the time?
Nice recap once again
First point
GRAND MAESTAR PYCELLE IS RIGHT!
He may be made out to look like an idiot because of his performance but quite often he is actually correct on many things even though some of them suit his agenda
People saying High Sparrows scenes are boring are missing a Master class on manipulation
He’s playing the Lannisters/Tyrells brilliantly and he’ll make them out to look overly aggressive while disarming them with a curve ball
There’s a reason only the Gold Cloaks police the city (well until Cersei allowed the re-arming of the Faith Militant) and the populace will be nervous given memories of Tywins sacking
Maybe because there is nothing after death, so he not in a hurry to go on a suicide mission once again, he does not want to rush into a war where the casualty will be in thousands? Being betrayed by his men and having to then come back and hang them (including a child) may have taken away all desire for leading or fighting? The important takeaway from this scene, for Jon, is not that he had to be convinced to fight for Winterfell, but that he was once again willing to wade into the muck, all for the sake of his family.
I have seen other people have the same reaction as you have. Why? Why can’t Jon be allowed a moment of weakness or self-doubt? It will be a part of his arc for the season.
Intresting line considering we get TOJ sequel in the next Episode.
What would Lyanna say to Ned after he left Jon behind in some way. I doubt Lyanna wanted her son in NW….
Ghosts Lunch,
Can’t wait for him to reveal his champion for trial by combat 😉
Have to say, Gemma Whelan is another one doing fantastically
I actually saw her commenting in a “story so far” thing before the E1, she plays Yara so well you can’t imagine her as someone else but the actress is so different which shows just how well she understand the character and how much she is putting into her performance
Of course Alfie is killing it as well so that Yara/Theon scene where she doesen’t care at all for his sooky nonsense in true Ironborn style is quite something
The part where Theon breaks when he realises the humiliating fact that Ramsay sent his “parts” to his father and sister was great acting by Alfie
Yaga,
Agreed. The masters simply need to die and a new order imposed. I just don’t think Tyrion is that kind. Of course I suspect that more then anything he is just buying time until Dany is back.
Ghosts Lunch,
Did you know that HBO offered the Yara role to Alfie Allens sister Lilly?
I really hope that’s the way of it. I’m just scared that D&D will always show Tyrion as the guy who’s right about everything and they are setting up Grey Worm to take Oberyn’s place.
OK, 170 comments and I’m about to start reading. I swear to God if anyone is complaining that this letter wasn’t pink or that the words weren’t exactly the same as the books..
Of course the other scene which seems to have been put in as an “awkward aside” was the Brienne/Davos/Mel scene
Probably something about the way Brienne/Gwendoline towers over both of them, just a whole “yeah I saw his army smashed, and I killed your beloved Stannis myself, watchya going to do about it”
And Carice/Liam looked like they had heard the news all over again, really hit the whole thing home to them all again,
And naturally they have to wonder what the entire point of it all was, eg House Baratheon is in complete tatters
Another good scene was Littlefinger, coming back to the Vale was always going to be awkward, it would have taken him quite a while to find an extremely expensive Falcon with which to bribe Sweetrobin with so he is endeared to him, and was able to quickly turn Lord Royce assertions about his antics right back onto him
Lord Royce would have been smarter to not make any direct accusation but simply remark that Sansa would tell the truth of it all etc, eg accuse without accusing but obviously he is the Lord
ghost of winterfell,
This!! A thousand times this!!
I think I vaguely remember, but tbh Gemma has hit it out of the park, such as it is (aka “not Asha”) but putting aside other issues with the scene, the speech she gave before the Theon rescue was performed really well
Apollo,
Only the setting, witch I don’t agree.
And I complained, because I wanted to hear Iwan narrating it, ”chaos is a ladder” style….
But that’s just because I really like Iwan…..
The Faith of 7 reads from the Book of death? 😮
Book of the father would be more appropriate name for a religious book if you ask me.
Best episode frome the season so far for me.
I wonder whether Melisandre
.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
All the gods probaly have books.
Book of the father.
Book of the mother.
Book of the warrior…..etc.
All together would form the ”seven pointed star”.
As for Tyrion
The issue with negotiation is not to play a direct hand straight out
In this case when there are multiple factions in opposition, a forthright banning of slavery will unite them all against him as he is directly threatening their social position, not just their economic profession/trade
However by giving conditions and terms and flexibility, what he is doing is “divide and conquer” by way of offering terms that are acceptable to some but not to others which opens the door to creating division within their ranks
It’s a shame they don’t have Cleon the Butcher King in tbh, that was great for showing that the slaves are just as bad as the Masters if the positions are reversed, it was also good for showing how
That said, the Masters attitudes being discussed is a good twin the Kings Landing, where the attitudes of the Nobility to the “commoners” is no different
alienarea,
There has to be a scene with Jon and Mel talking about what happened. Also wouldn’t he kinda want to protect her?
*In Littlefinger´s creepy voice*:
Ohh we do, we do …. 😉
S6 just keeps getting better. Jon-sansa were beautiful. I cried like a baby!! It makes me even more hyped for a jon-arya reunion (there will be one, i have faith).
Mereen was finally a bit interesting. But I just get this feeling that seven years is a long time. When they leave for westeros, who is to say the cities wont fall back to slavery. And everytime I see missandei- grey worm I just feel they are upto something.
KL was also interesting after a long time. Glad to see margaery still keeping her wits about it. The last scene did not give me the goosebumps as 1×10 but it was a good one. I am just glad they did not drag the dothraki as I thought.
And how cute were brienne and tormund. I have never really awwwed while watching GOT but that was awwwww…… Its so good to see someone interested in brienne just as she is.
I didn’t think this show can get any better, but yet, another Episode Surpassing the Previous Episode. Simply Amazing….
He once said that her invulnerabilty to fire was just a one-time-thing (on Khal Drogos pyre), so I assume she has to rise to new power in another way in the books to come.
Mihnea,
Agreed. In the “inside the episode”, Benioff said them seeing Dany again step out of the flames is like them seeing a God reborn.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
I’m totally imagining his “taking Sansa away from KL on that ship” voice. That one was especially creepy 🙂
coronaprince,
Drogon burns them. It’s obvious.
taim,
Why do you think I have a “problem” with Dany this episode? I said nothing about her in the post you quoted and in other posts I stated that I actually DID like her tonight. So….? I don’t know where you’re coming from.
Just watching it now, woo hoo! Stark Reunion – and some maintained Sansa wasn’t going to Castle Black 😉
So when will Dany make her way to Westeros?
I’m tired waiting ?
Is Bloodraven=nightking? They seem to be connected:
1. Both stories are quite similar. Lord Commander of the nightwatch, lost behind the wall.
2. Old naan says all crows are liars and must not be trusted.
3. In the trailer there is no bloodraven in Brans vision.
4. Touching his arm. This was exactly what bloodraven did in the last visions.
5. Why is Meera trying to wake him up?
6. We know that they have to escape. Maybe they escape from bloodraven and his army deads?
Hands up, y’all. Who here predicted that the Pink Letter itself would be Sansa’s “Level Up” moment? Yeah, me neither.
Honestly, I think I much prefer how the show is doing this whole Jon Snow resurrection / Sansa Stark: Elizabeth I evolution / Pink Letter scenario. It just feels so much more tighter and logical than the whole meandering mess that the “holy text” portrays. Excellent adaptation by D&D.
I do, however, wonder if perhaps the Littlefinger scene should have been shuffled to an earlier episode? Maybe E1 or E2? It would’ve made the travel time line up a bit better, because right now it looks like Littlefinger’s infamous jet pack is going to get a heck of a workout.
Other than that … The scene worked for me. For all of those bitching about Royce’s guards or why he didn’t just kill Littlefinger afterwards … It’s because Sweetrobin is still the Lord of the Vale and overrules them all … And he’s still damaged goods. He’s the same boy who cheerfully threw people down the moon door. And Littlefinger controls that boy.
To use an analogy, Sweetrobin is the boy who wishes others to the cornfield.
I did enjoy the contrast between Theon’s two arrivals to Iron Islands. A stark difference between utter cockiness and totally broked. I do wish that when Yara asked Theon what he really wanted, he said “to see Ramsay dead, and I’ll help whoever can make that happen.” But the scene still worked for me. Looking forward to the Kingsmoot next week.
Kings Landing bored me this week. Westeros Bernie Sanders just droned on and on. But if his story is legit (50/50 chance of that) then the HR=HS theory was just busted. (I personally don’t buy that theory, and I believe that the backstory HS just gave is the real one.) Loras is so dead.
I agree with the speculation in this thread that HS is totally setting up Cersei. He must have some way of neutralizing FrankenMountain. I have two theories as to how.
1) HS will demand a 7-on-7, gambling on the fact that Cersei won’t be able to find 7 champions to defend her. Cersei will rebutt with a 7-on-1 trial and FrankenMountain will slaughter 7 sparrows including Lancel. (This is the one I find most likely.)
2) CleangeBowl CONFIRMED! GET HYPE!!!!! (I do think CleangeBowl will happen, but I’m thinking not until S7.)
Over to Dany’s “Blood and Fire” moment … I will agree that it felt kinda underwhelming. Maybe because it was her fourth or fifth such moment but it felt kinda “been there, done that.” S3’s “Dracyars” moment was much more “fuck, yeah!” But I did appreciate that it was 100% Dany. No Drogon ex machines.
Speaking of which … I do find it amusing that before the show there were people whining that Drogon would show up and save Dany and now she constantly had to be saved by others. And when the show aired and there was no Drogon, people are now whining that there was no dragon and the scene was boring. I guess you really cannot please everybody.
Oh, and as for Dany’s fire-proofness? I’ve said this before and I’ll say it many more times. The tears of book purists amuses me to no end.
It does feel good to be vindicated. I’ve been called ”idiot” and many other names just because I believed this to be true.
This weak started the best way it could’ve for me!
Josh L,
And I completely agree with you on Jon/Sansa. I thank god they are together and Sansa at last has a real story, one that is engaging, dramatic and has suspanse.
Also agreed on the Vale scene. Loved how Robin’s word has weight, probally because he is much older then in the books, and LF used this perfectly.
Also loved his final line…..”gather the knights of the Vale, it’s time to enter the fray”..
I agree more or less with your ratings, especially this one. How did Royce suddenly become like he had no one to defend him? Where were his men? But other than this one wrinkle (there’s been one per episode so far, at least for me), I loved this episode. Can’t wait to watch it again later!
its real power is usually in the quieter scenes between a few actors, and I wish the show would trust in this. The drama is found in the characters, not in the flames.
This . . . so much this! I’ve been watching the Jon/Sansa moments over and over again.
Sam,
What could he do, when the Lord of the Vale himself threatened him?
Robin isn’t a 7 year-old, he is preaty much grown, still a idiot, but a adult idiot.
To do anything against LF would mean he has to act against his own lord liege.
Winterstars,
End of next season, most likely. At least that’s when I’m expecting it.
I still want to talk about next episode. Putting in spoilers, obviously. It seems we have:
– the Kingsmoot (the other focus)
– everyone leaves Castle Black (photo of Mel leaving); Sansa meets Littlefinger; Sansa sends Brienne south (rip Tormienne or whatever cute portmanteau was invented for their ship)
-Tyrion meets Kinvara
– Arya goes to meet that theatre troupe
– possibly Sam meets his parents?
Dany will probably sit this one out, but I wonder about King’s Landing.
Yaga,
There isn’t much more after THIS season left. It has to be sooner.
No shame in crying! That reunion has been long coming! I thought Jonsa would be better because Jansa can also be like… Jaime + Sansa (of course there’s never going to be Jaime + Sansa but you know what I mean).
Yup, there’s a sense that they’ve been talking for a long time and we caught them at the time when they were done catching up with each other’s stories. It makes sense because otherwise it would take too much TV time.
Yaga,
Dany will leave for Westeros at the end of this season, mark my words.
She will either leave Meereen or end with her in Volantis, but I think they’ll save the Volantene liberation for the next season.
I am thinking it probably the prevalent theory that was discussed this week. The book will have Drogon be setting fire to the Khals with the added possibility she is riding the dragon
Sam,
Jon knows Rickon and Bran live. Sam told him in S4.
Tim of House Deddings,
That’s exactly how it will happen. She will intimidate them with Drogon, that’s it.
Mihnea,
Totally agree. I know some people are saying he’s reverting back to season 1 sullenness, but I don’t see that at all. He was just killed and brought back to life–of course he’s not eager to jump back into another battle! It will be great to see him develop his sense of purpose again.
JonFookinSnow,
Mihnea,
I think that she’ll LEAVE FOR Westeros this season, but GET THERE the next. Remember, there will be only 7 episodes, and even if she conquers Volantis between seasons/ in episode 1, she’ll still have to spend some time on, y’know. *Him.*
Mihnea:
“I actually love this Jon. I would have been beyond dissapointed if he came back as a stronger, meaner person who wants to retake WF.”
I don’t want him meaner either, I actually didn’t want him to change at all, personality wise. I was hoping the whole ressurection thing would be just for prophectical reasons and serve as the catalyst to give that necessary revelation of what his real purpose is. He’s got a second chance at life and isn’t he curious why? Maybe the subtle change in the acting was due to the fact of seeing Sansa/Sophie in a different setting interacting with new people and the fact that Jon/Kit’s eyes look different without the hair around his face. Also they probably wanted his mannerisms to be slightly different so we get a feeling of NewJon.
Margaery was just awesome in this episode. Truly a player of the game and a strong woman in every sense of the word. Had Sansa married Loras, the two of them could have made a great couple of sisters in law.
Can you imagine if they wasted all that time with Littlefinger/any other character travelling though? You have to imagine that every episode combined with the gap between them spans at least a couple of weeks, if not much longer. The kingsroad took the entire royal party a month to travel in the first episode according to Cersei, and Littlefinger travelling half that distance alone in one episode isn’t that unrealistic. Unless there are events along the road theres no point in spending time watching or waiting for him to move from A to B to C to Z.
There are 7 books (or chapters) in their holy text. Book of the Father is presumably one of them (alongside Books of the Mother / Warrior / Maiden / Smith / Crone / Stranger). I assume the Book of the Stranger is probably something akin to the Book of Revelations in the Christian Bible.
Yaga,
I wonder if in the end of this season we will get
But I know thats just a ridiculuos fantasy of mine, hha
9/10 for me.
I absolutely loved the ending. Not only was it stunning, Daenerys did this herself. Killing so many Khals at the same time… Damn woman. You are back in the game!
I could have done without Ramsay. I hope we won’t see him again until episode 9. I respect the actor, but I don’t like the way he is used. I wouldn’t be surprised if he arm wrestles Wun wun and wins. Or killing Ghost with his bare teeth.
The Sansa-Jon reunion was fantastic and I immensely liked their scenes. Tormund eying Brienne was hilarious. The Wall, just like last season, is the strongest arc for me.
King’s landing, the Vale and the Iron Isles were fine. Iron Isles maybe a little short.
Meereen doesn’t seem to move forward. I was hoping for either dragons or the Harpy – if there even is a Head. That being said, it was interesting to see Tyrion handle those Masters.
All in all, this probably is my favorite episode in this season so far.
If people want to see the entire trip described, they can always go and check out AFFC/ADWD/TWOW (when it’s finally published in 2018) to get all the travelogue details their heart desires.
The TV show doesn’t have the time for that shit. (And thank goodness for that!)
I hope that the writers do have a good plan with Jon, he seems so reluctant atm, even more than he was before. Hopefully he is becoming more determined and badass later on. Didnt kit say in one interview that there will be one particular episode that focuses more on jon, maybe we will get more insight in his character then, I think the great stuff is still to come for him.
Someday soon she’d realize she actually had family – a nephew! But hopefully they won’t be fighting on different teams as some have been saying here.
My guess is the third fire will be once she sails across the sea to Westeros she’ll destroy the ships that carried her in the same vein as the Nymeria the princess that founded Dorne
Glad, I am not the only one not buying this shit. How could she even burn this hut? Is she some fire-magician now? Or had she had her dosh khaleens poured gazoline over the floor? That scene is complete and utterly bullshit.
I have a feeling that due for his love of feeding people to his hounds that Ramsey is in for some poetic justice at the teeth of Ghost and it can’t happen fast enough! That way Jon, Sansa, Davos & Brienne can focus their attentions north! Also now there’s 2 Valerian Steel Swords at the Wall….I fancy their chances a little better!
I pray for a glimpse of ToJ part II, and The Door preview shows me only The Others army
Mihnea,
Question. When Davos and Mel were talking why was she still acting all gloomy? So it did seem a little out of place to have the Stannis conversation at this point but, like even before he mentioned him she still acts depressed. Her newfound supernatural ability is being downplayed as far as how it’s affecting her character. Again, I wonder at the choices that are being made now.
ygritte,
Stannis’s death affected her profoundly and destroyed her faith.
Jon coming back helped her but that doesn’t mean she will return to her snob, over confident self.
She thought she knew everything and she couldn’t be wrong. Now she probaly admits that she knows little and just lets the Lord of Light do it’s thing.
Davos probaly just thought enough time passed and he could try again to get a clear answer as to what happened.
Lisa0527,
I thought the same thing all the way through. Maybe it was the reunions after so long. Strangers but not strangers.
Loved this episode. Seems odd it was titled from an obscure line by Margeory though.
(My first time to post on here)
I also thought he said “Your father” but on second viewing, I heard it clearer. He said, “Where will WE go? If I don’t watch over you, father’s ghost would come back and murder me.” And then he gave a half smile. It was bittersweet to be able to take care of family again but also remember that their father is now gone.
gnarlytarly,
Welcome to the Wall.
We are quite polite here, well at least better then the other places… But we can get a bit ”fiery” sometimes.
All in all it’s a great place to discuss the Show, the best I ever found.
Hope you will enjoy the site!
Who cares? Finally after three series and three books of achieving 99/100ths of fuck all Dany wants to get shit done. Yay!
taim,
I hope so cause I too want him to be the fooking bad-ass he used to be. Yeah he said there is that one episode big focus on Jon and I hope he wasn’t referring to just the battle, which will probably take up most of the episode. I’m looking forward to him getting the parentage revelation and Melisandre revealing all about who she thinks he is and this giving him renewed sense of purpose.
Yeah, many of us thought TOJ p2 would in ep5 but maybe it’s too big a plot twist to just put it in the middle of the season. I have a feeling now that part 2 (I hope there is a part 2) will be in ep10, right after Jon & co. recaptured WF in ep9. It makes sense to have it revealed in the season finale. Imagine, the long-lost Targaryen princess/heir finally sailing back to Westeros and then in the remote North, another Targaryen prince/heir is revealed. I’d love it if that’s to happen . Of course, if R+L=J isn’t true then TOJ p.2 may not be significant.
Just rewatched ep5 preview and Littlefinger is in Castle Black meeting Sansa.
I wonder how will Jon look at him …
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Is that really CB, though?
Mihnea,
That’s not how feudalism works, either in real life or, more importantly, on this show, where individual bannermen command their own vassals. That’s why, e.g., the Starks can’t just order the Karstark men to join them whatever Lord Rickard says, why feudal politicking is necessary in the first place. Littlefinger might as well have ordered Robin to have the Lords Declarant arrested back in 408, under this logic.
Sean C.,
Alright.
The fire wasn’t natural, the strange roaring noise it made as it leapt toward the Khals made this point. It was magic of some kind, just like Bran has a magical ability, so to does Daenarys, plus the temple was mostly made of wood.
gnarlytarly,
Welcome friend ! Beware though, if you ever have even the slightest criticism of the show or the tiniest disappointment with any decision D&D make, Mihnea and Wimsey and many others will flay you living and go on endlessly about how you’re a book purist who shouldn’t even be watching the show and how happy they’ll be when TWoW comes out and confirms everything the show has done (which is delusion if ever I’ve seen it). What was once a wonderful site with a great vibe has deteriorated into an army of commenters blindly defending the show no matter what and viciously attacking anyone who doesn’t agree that the show is perfect. It’s pretty depressing to read. There is no tolerance for differing opinions and no desire to be friendly to fellow watchers. It really isn’t a friendly environment.
Good luck !
Initially, Jon was in denial that it was Rickon. Then, it slowly dawned on him that he indeed had to fight now. The moment he turned to Tormund to ask him how many men he got, he was starting to wrap his head around the fact that, yeah he’s gonna fight Ramsay. I’m glad he didn’t go like, “F**k, let’s go and march to WF now!”right after reading the letter and totally make a quick turnaround. He’s still hurting, that’s obvious, so he’s kinda slow in processing things.
I concur. On second viewing I like it even more. Even the writing in Meereen was better tonight. Don’t really get the recent writing criticisms, for me the writing this season has been better than all of season 5, Hardhome excepted, and pretty much better than most of season 2. Heck, even the writing in the single scene we saw in Dorne this season was better than last season. Jon and Sansa was the highlight; that was pure gold.
Danny has ALWAYS been fireproof in the show, since season 1. People need to get over that.
How you think George is going to solve the “getting all the khalasars under Danny” thing in Winds of Winter? It’s going to be Drogon and a Stallion that Mounts the World thing; a speech ain’t gonna do it, that’s for sure.
George,
Well said.
If I was Lord Royce, I’d just rally all the Knights of the Vale to take out LF lol.
The Castle Black scenes were perfect. I loved Jonsa, Torriene and The Man Bun. The Pink Letter was so well done. Seeing Jon list the things he had to do makes me want to give him a hug. He’s been through hell and back and got dragged through the mud without receiving any great rewards. However, I need a scene with Jon and Mel discussing his resurrection. Isn’t he curious why he was brought back? I also need to know why Mel thinks he’s The Prince That Was Promised. Where was the salt? I also wanted to see Sansa react to the news that her brother died and came back….it seemed like such a non-event to her idk. There are so many scenes that need to take place at Castle Black before Jonsa go shopping for an army. I feel cheated lmao.
I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I’m actually looking forward to the Kingsmoot. I love Yara.
I love that Brienne was so proud about killing Stannis and finally fulfilling her vows. She’s earned it!!
KL and Meereen were boring.
I was relieved we didn’t get a gratuitous rape and torture scene with poor Osha.
I was waiting for Super Daario to discover Ser Luigi’s greyscale. I wonder how things will turn out with these two. Daario is messing up my predictions lol. I loved how confused he was about all the ridiculous bowing at the end. I agree, man.
Dany is such an escapist character. She gets what she wants and needs with basically minimal effort and never gets punished for her mistakes. The show is really pushing for the end scenario with her as queen and Tyrion as her hand. Just when you think they can’t make it more obvious…they do it. Where’s the suspense and subtlety? I would be surprised if we ever see her and the Daario Brothers face consequences for spilling blood in a sacred city.
Sean C.,
Attempting to reason with Mihnea is useless, my friend. Your logic is foreign to a lot of the good people here on the Wall.
Might as well change the name of the site to “Game of Thrones is perfection incarnate ! The blessed show can do no wrong !”.
Markus Stark,
I disagree with him, strongly, on a TV show…..Therefore I’m a idiot who can’t understand logic?
Why isn’t the more obvious answer this: We simply see things diferently.
I think they’ll save the Volantis liberation for offscreen (just as Astapor and Yunkai will be offscreen, we’ll see Meereen); and that Danny will board the ships in 6.10 and she’ll be either at Dragonstone or Dorne in 7.01 or 7.02 at the latest.
LF says to Royce she is going to her brother at the Wall.
It would be hightly unusual (ignoring his teleport) if he was to find her in the vast north.
And besides only CB is a ruin waiting to fall apart … that matches what we see in the video.
George,
I think they’ll show Volantis. At least a scene with the slaves being freed.
She will land in Dorne, no question there for me.
I feel like jon is gonna get a lot of hate this season for not living up to everyone’s expectations and disappointing. I feel like this is gonna be the jon we get this season , the lost reluctant passive one,at some point i’d hope his will would be rekindled and he’d find a purpose in life again and something to fight for , otherwise his whole coming back thing is useless if this is the new jon :/ and he’d be dead soon anyways , its eat or get eaten in westeros like cersei best said it when you play the game of thrones you win or you die. And jon is involved in the game whether he wants to or not , boltons and lannisters want him and his sister dead , i just hope we get some epic stuff with him for once after this resurrection :/ we will see .
And dany’s scene was beautifully done, am glad she burned those guys.
The high sparrow storyline is getting really interesting i cant wait to see what he is scheming , someone needs to put cersei down i dont care who does it 🙂
And bran’s vision next episode woohooo xO Cant wait for it!!
Wonder when they will continue that towe of joy though , i wanna see whats in the tower damn it!!
Ehem…
The men that were surrounding Lord Royce, Littlefinger and Robin were House Arryn men; they had House Arryn Sigils and banners, so, if their Liege Lord says “Chuck him out the Moon Door” that’s exactly what they would do…
I’m sure that Lord Royce’s men were there too, but does Lord Royce want to escalate a conflict between himself and House Arryn? I think not? And Littlefinger knows this.
Besides, pushing his contempt for Littlefinger aside, Lord Royce probably sees the logic in assisting House Stark, a house which he obviously has always had sympathetic ties with.
Yes, we all know Littlefinger has a TARDIS in the show, he borrowed it from the Doctor, heck, he might the Doctor in this universe, LOL.
It’s my only complaint though; the episode itself yesterday was terrific.
What are your predictions guys ??? !!!
Best episode of this season. Hands down.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Let’s hope it’s Castle Black but something tells me it’s elsewhere. Vale is not part of the battle from what we saw in trailers. This is getting interesting becaue I expected that Sansa will meet Littlefinger later in the season. But hopefully she’ll start to plan his downfall.
Ugh, Brienne is such a child… boo hoo Renly died, now she finally got her revenge and now she has to rub it into everyone’s face? As if I didn’t have enough reason to hate her character.
Very conflicted about this episode currently. LOVED the Jonsa reunion, KL stuff was decent, Meereen stuff was decent. The ending with Dany was absolute horseshit imo, though the visuals sure were beautiful. Glad the show did the Pink Letter.
Geralt of Rivia,
I think LF joins Ramsey, at least in the beginning.
It seems to be- its in a wintry location and LF already mentioned that Sansa won’t be safe there. The chamber he’s in is a total wreck though. Like trashed. No sure where they put him, perhaps an old store room or even a holding cell?
Dragonmcmx,
What did you think about the response to the pink letter? I found the acting by both Jon and Sansa to be a little “off.” Perhaps it was a matter of dialogue not flowing the way it should but to me the reaction felt a tad bit false. I know these two to be good actors so I’m not ready to blame them, more so the writing/directing I guess? Anyways, curious your thoughts.
Jori_P,
How can he stay reluctant and passive? Jeez, this is part of an arc, he is at his lowest now. Having met Sansa and “Mission Rescue Rickon ” will give him purpose. Besides, there has to be a reason why he is the only major character to come back to life in the show, which will have to tie in with the end game (WWs). So sooner or later, Jon will find out what it is, what is his purpose.
Flayed Potatoes,
Yes I feel the same way, those are things I needed to see as well, things that are what I consider necessary follow-up in good story telling, that did not occur. Dare I say it feels rushed and almost like the two D’s are wanting to be done with it sometimes.
DragonWench39,
I think it is safe to say that they talked about it, all of it. We just don’t have to hear them say it and the producers probably didn’t have the time. It would take a while for that conversation ha ha.
Kudos to any of you guys who can put your feelings through words right now because i can’t, i’m simply speechless. Thank you D&D for being such brilliant writers, i mean the moment of reunion was as beautiful and epic as i wanted it to be but man the scene that follows after, those tender moments those smiles they shared all of it is just too much to handle and my god here i thought i couldn’t be more proud of Sansa but I AM, she’s the proud daughter of Ned and Catleyn, proud Daughter of Winter and i’m her proud fan, her biggest fan. How we can speak about this without talking about Kit and OMG my babe Sophie, each one playing their respective roles to perfection, it’s well past time for Emmys to start recognizing these two and Maisie’s work in my opinion.
Now about their second scene towards the end, WOW that was epic, heart breaking and hilarious at the same time, GOT is the only show with the ability to pull this off tbh hahaha.
Anyway after this episode it’s even harder to care about anything south of the Neck. Oh and yes this is my top favorite episode of the whole show so far,Thanks again David and Dan.
Daenerys ending scene so fucking epic,holy shit one of best scene in entire TV SHOW
The Dothraki/Dany thing is obviously different in the books. Maybe Dany and Drogon have a moment in front of the Dosh Khaleen and they realise Dany is TSWMTW and struggle to convince the Dothraki until they also see Dany and Drogon being buddies. But the show is a faster paced visual medium so I’m fine with how it is going so far.
HA! so true. what an awesome episode. everything well written from start to finish. Well done!
and I’m totally Team Tormienne. LET’S DO THIS D&D
ygritte,
Seeing as they want to wrap things up in 13 episodes, it does feel that way.
why they always have to give her stuff like this, she has so many boring scenes, and it seems the only way to make her interesting is to give her special effects to make her look cool.
They could have used more money on Jons resurrection.
taim,
Use the money how?
Jon’s resurrection didn’t lack money at all, it was clearly a deliberate choice to make it a more intimate moment.
I honestly don’t get why so many people have an issue with Jon’s frame of mind or Dany’s last scene. The guy has just come back from the dead, he surely feels exhausted, scared as hell, angry, betrayed and just wants a happy and quiet life (at least what remains of it).
As for Dany- she tipped several braziers full of oil onto the floor of a dry wooden temple. That shits gonna go up fast. And of course the Dothaki will bow down to her- they bow to strength. I recall a while back most here were hoping she’d save herself instead of Drogon. She did that, and still there are complaints.
Loved the episode overall- the Sansa/Jon reunion had me in pieces and made me all warm and fuzzy inside! Only minor gripes are the episode title and Osha’s death. Of course she was a goner but I would’ve loved to see her at least get to scratch Ramsay with a blade before meeting her inevitable demise, as we’d expect from a true spearwife She will be missed.
I think there will be a conversation between the two, as to why she thinks he is tptwp. My impression was that they are skimping over that part now because it is not immediately important to Jon’s arc. Later, whenever it becomes necessary , they will bring it up. The very fact that she keeps mentioning tptwp has to be for a reason.
Besides, I agree, I wish there was at least one scene where Jon and Sansa talk about his death and coming back, her trying to wrap her head around it.
Regarding Dany, yup, that’ s my guess for her end game too. Queen, with Tyrion as her hand.
dragonmcmx,
When she shoved the second fire “basin” down, something like liquid fire spewed out, most likely it was some kind of lamp oil that was set afire and when she pushed it over it spread just like a grease fire in a kitchen.
Apollo,
She really underestimated Ramsay. Seducing won’t work on him and reaching for that knife was the most predictable thing she could have done. Ramsay has some really good reflexes.
Lyanna_Targaryen,
There was straw all over the floor as well, probably very dry straw. This would go up like … well like it does on the show. There would definitely be some kind of oil in those braziers otherwise they would go out after a while. I had no problem with that scene at all.
JonFookinSnow,
What else could she have done though?
She tried to kill Ramsey, she didn’t had any other choice. It worked with Theon, she tried again, she failed.
taim,
You guys never stop to amaze me..
Use money on Jon snow
Watchers on the wall, hardhome ,battle of bastard and still whining. .
How do you compare Jon’s resurrection with what dany does ..Jon’s resurrection is solely about himself and his struggles with it ..
Dany’s going to change the proportion of whole continent maybe even two ..
You guys can’t even tolerate 5 mins of action another character gets right ..
Well, at this point, it looks like Drogon is the Stallion that Mounts the World.
It really is not rushed. This has always been a “fan” vs. “viewer” dichotomy. Fans want things drawn out, and every detail explained. Viewers want what is necessary. Shows and films that give you dialog that replicates information get panned for just that reason. That is part of why Chekhov wrote his famous dictum: if you emphasize things that are not really important later, then audiences get irked. (There were no such thing as Fanboys when Chekhov was writing his stuff, obviously!)
That stated, the pace now should be faster than ever. We basically are starting the final act: and at this point, all of the dominoes set up earlier in the over-arching story should be ready to go. At this point, it’s about setting up the last key dominoes that are going to link all of the domino chains.
Mihnea,
She did her best and it wasn’t enough, but we all expected that. Jon will kill him or maybe Sansa.
Seems like male characters are being hit by David and Dan’s new-found feminist touch. Mainly Jon, Theon, Loras. Make them weak to empower women beside them.
Wimsey,
Agreed. The time for long drown out scenes has passed. It’s time to go into the last stretch.
Not to mention, why should they talk about Jon’s revival, perhaps he simply doesn’t want to talk about what happened, what he felt, what he feels….etc. It sure fits Jon’s character, he always was a very closed person, not one to speak about his emotions and feelings.
How would she know that seducing him would not work? It would for the vast majority of men. And one thing that Osha would have learned in her years with the Starks is that a woman reaching for the knife is one of the last things that a Kneeler would expect.
Remember, Osha has not been watching this show! She would (like most people) know very little about Ramsay. I suspect that someone like her would have even less of a frame of reference for what Ramsay is. So, to her, another Northerner just wanting to get between her legs and not even considering that she might try to really fight back was the predictable thing.
JonFookinSnow,
I think he’ll die in battle, so Jon maybe.
Wimsey,
How exactly drogon is TSWMTW..
Hell-o,
Poor little boy….
dragonbringer,
The same way I think he is lightbringer and not a sword.
Did anyone notice the unnatural roar of the flames when Daenarys knocked over the final brazier, was that supposed to signify some kind of magic or just bad-ass flame noise?
And the one thing that they established is that Jon and Sansa had not been close. What they really needed to do there was develop what their relationship had been like because they never had interacted on screen: and even if they had, then it would have been something from 5 years ago that nobody would remember at this point. One would have expected that it would not have been close: Sansa was mini-Cat as a girl, after all, and Catelyn hated Jon.
But this seems to fit in with the implausible alliances. What they showed us is that the idea of Jon and Sansa working closely together would have been unthinkable years ago. Now they are. There is a “strange bedfellows” motif this year (which we also got in KL, Meereen and Vaes Dothrak this episode), but that makes sense given what it appears that the story is this year.
Sacred Lime,
Badass flame noise is my guess. Se is fireproof, not the avatar. 🙂
Yeah i love Brienne for killing off interesting characters. Well more interesting than she is.
Sean C.,
Castle Black (A): Yeah, this was good stuff, from the big-ticket reunion to Tormund’s glorious reaction shots to Brienne. If there’s one niggle I have here, it’s that there’s so much to be said between Jon and Sansa that you almost imagine the writers being unable to write such a conversation that wouldn’t take up most of the episode, and as a result there’s some stuff I’d have really wanted to see. Does she know about the White Walkers now, and Jon coming back from the dead? Both of those would be pretty major, for a character who has conspicuously had nothing to do with the supernatural for five seasons. But anyway, I’m pleased.
How does everything from resurrection to Bran to Arya to Ramsay not come up? Its a resurrection and he is dressed to leave the wall. I agree yeah, it would have been nice to hear them talk about all that but what would be the point? It would take almost the entire episode. They have both been through ALOT! I don’t think it was a matter of the writers being unable to write it and more along the lines that GoT does not need a recap episode. We know, it’s important, and there is still a big ass wall between the Walkers and Westeros (for now bawahahah).
Runestone (D): Ugh, in the midst of an episode that ranged from pretty solid to great in other plots, this was just a reminder of how stupid the plotting can get at points. Littlefinger’s plan is, if I’m following this, to show up and claim Sansa was abducted, but to not even pretend to be concerned about it (he literally starts the conversation by distributing gifts like a visiting uncle), and then to tacitly admit to Royce that he’s up to no good and then threaten Royce with immediate execution even though they’re in his castle. Where are Royce’s men? Why, as soon as Littlefinger leaves, would Royce not go get his men and the other lords and then cut Baelish’s head off? Like, this is an attempt to justify the Valemen going North that is actively dumber than if the Valemen had just bought Littlefinger’s story about Sansa being abducted.
Now I could be mistaken but they are not at Royce’s castle. They are at the Lord of the Vale’s second home at the bottom of the mountain due to the colder weather. Lord Royce is watching over him while Baelish is gone. Yes he should have men there but the Vale has not been in a fight in over a decade, completely out of the War of the 5 kings so there blood isn’t as high, their willingness to draw blades isn’t as high either. So Lords feel safe in the vale don’t need to travel with a large contingency of men or could even trust other Lord’s men. You could almost say they need to be blooded first in a battle vs other kingdoms before they start having strife amongst themselves. Littlefinger’s reintroduction I thought was perfect Littlefinger. He knew going back to the Vale to see Royce he would have some questions to answer no doubt. The whole country knows about Sansa and Ramsay so he needed a plan. He keeps his cool by staying confident. He basically bribes Lord Arryn with a gift so he listens to Baelish instead of Royce. arryn likes gifts more than shooting arrows. It is clear that Baelish now has an army (Arryn loyalists at least). I think Baelish is in more control in the Vale than the show portrays. Those soldiers moved closer after Baelish said something not after Lord Arryn said something, they were listening to Baelish all while Baelish made it feel like Lord Arryn did all the decision making. I know we have seen Lords murder other Lords but not that much. They have honor and chilvary in the Vale, the Lord’s uncle pisses you off you don’t just go get men and kill him. It would be obvious it was Royce and Lord Arryn would probably have him killed. I know that is the easy answer, but they are still playing politics. Even in this show, you don’t go around murdering lords. There are always consequences. If it was a Lord and a farmer, yeah the farmer is dead. Did you notice Baelish used the now famous line that Royce can be useful in the WARS TO COME. Everytime someone says that, the person they are saying that to dies. My prediction – Royce dies in the battle for Winterfell because Baelish make Lord Arryn order Royce to be commanding the calvary or something.
Iron Islands (B+): Theon found a ship to take him home somewhere, I see. Anyway, quick scene, great acting.
Trading still takes place, people who had no business in the war still need to make a living. Not all ships leaving from the shores of the Riverlands, North or Western leave from castle docks. I am pretty sure ships are still heading from the mainland to II.
Lyanna_Targaryen,
It wasn’t her body anyway, it was a body double, her contract says no nudity.
Mihnea,
Yes he will be the mount to khal of khals like how he is light bringer to AAR and TPTWP ..
But the problem here is he is being called as AAr and TPTWP and not light bringer
Wimsey,
She seemed like a good judge of character in previous seasons. So maybe she should be more suspicious, which wouldn’t have helped her anyway.
Only been able to skim watch the episode so far and not had time to read all the comments, but here’s my two cents worth:
JANSAAAAAA!! *hyperventilates* I’m not crying, you’re crying! 5 mins in an I’m already an emotional wreck.
I fully expect Tormund to start a courtship display for Brienne like birds do. He’ll start putting flowers in his beard and presenting her with little gifts such as small dead animals, rocks and any potential weapons he can find lying around.
Littlefinger giving a masterclass on scheming and manipulation there, I can’t wait for him to get all he so richly deserves!
Osha Noooooo! We knew you were almost certainly doomed once Smalljon Tactful handed you over. At least it was quick with no dogs or flaying involved, which at Ramsay’s hands is a rarity. Hopefully Mel can keep bringing you back so you can be repeatedly killed as horribly as possible.
S6 is officially my favourite so far, can’t wait for next week 😀 😀 😀
And of course man bun! All that’s missing is the world’s most awesome headgear, but not long now……
lol… Now, that would make one of those great post-credit scenes! “Did I ever tell you about the time I got a ball into a she-bear?” “*sigh* The gods really hate me….”
Steel_Wind,
The preview for Episode 5 shows a teleporting Littlefinger. Or teleporting LF and Sansa. Whatever the case, not happy about that.
I enjoyed the reunion; Jon’s PTSD? Not so much.
We can see that Mel is not going to make it out of this season alive or, undead, or whatever she is. Shireen Baratheon is a score that will have to be settled; only Life can pay for Death.
I enjoyed Daenerys scene but it is also pretty clear that we are just off the reservation now in terms of books and TV series. I guess the greatest thing about that is that we are getting our fix while still avoiding spoilers, because there is no way that GRRM resolves the Dothraki like that.
Littlefinger has been able to move around Westeros quicker than anyone throughout the entire series. Not sure why his ability to get to the wall in an episode is that much of a surprise. It should be expected. Littlefinger works quickly, he wastes no time!
I have a prediction on Mel – She said I listen to Jon Snow now. Jon is going to tell her to leave, he doesn’t want to be resurrected again. therefore he doesn’t want her there.
I think w/ Dany something to that affect will happen in the books. They haven’t followed scenes from the book since basically season 2 and we don’t know what happens with Dany in the books after she comes across the Dothraki. But yet they still get to the same place typically in the book. I think most of us thought Drogon set that place on fire. No one mentioned once from all my spoiler reading that it was Dany who would cause that fire. I actually like that for the book. Dany earning the Dothraki loyalty instead of her dragon (that she can somewhat control) getting the loyalty. She earned this without Drogon. I like it!
Wimsey,
We need to start a petition to get to make a Brienne/Tormund sit-com.
Soooo tired of all the bitching and moaning about absolutely nothing:
How did the fire ignite so fast?
Why didn’t her hair burn?
How does LF travel so fast?
Blah – Blah – Blah
Am I wrong, or is this show not a “FANTASY” series?
The definition of the word FANTASY – the faculty or activity of imagining things, especially things that are “impossible” or “improbable”.
Every Sunday the same assholes, one in particular, comes to this site and tries to ruin it for those of us who love, understand and enjoy this genre – which they apparently do not. Yet claim to love the show.
I’m not saying their dislike of an episode is not valid, of course it is – disliking the writing, directing, sets, costumes, acting, etc. are all salient. However, to bitch, just to bitch is fucking ridiculous. I suspect they, one in particular, must be a 10 year old child looking for attention. I will no longer give credence to these posters and skip over them as if they were not there.
With that said, can someone please explain to me what is going on with Tyrion – I think the writing for him this season is seriously lacking?
Lyanna_Targaryen,
Is someone critizising her body? Oh, I know the type. Let me guess. You go to the gym extensively, you date very young, very thin, very shallow girls with a lot of make-up? Dany is so freaking hot, I almost shed a tear in the Jon/sansa scene, but when Emilia stood there naked I cried like a baby. So unearthly georgous, and I feel that when they use her nakedness in a scene like that, it just really gets to me. I cry.
Loved this episode, and the stark reunion was probably my favorite GoT moment so far. I’m really baffled at people bitching out about Jon’s behavior though. Most people imagined a post-resurrection jon snow completely different. Many thought he would come back bloodthirsty, some others thought he wouldn’t even remember how he died, and that he would come back with missing bits of himself. personally, it never really crossed my mind he would actually come back so tired of it all, but I completelly understand him. In the show’s timeline has it even been a full week since the events of hardhome up to now? Assuming it has, it is A LOT to take in in such short amount of time. Plus, while he was dead he realised that there’s NOTHING there but oblivion. Why would he come back ready to fight and die again? what is the point? give the man a damn break! Unlike most characters on GoT, Jon never had his own agenda. He’s been fighting for the greater good since day one. If he is tired for the time ever, so be it. I think he earned that right.
heh, her “good judge of character” was “men want sex.” And, OK, that’s generally a good judge of character. But it is pretty improbable that she ever had met anything like Ramsay. Wildling men would have kept the knife out of reach. Westerosi men would have left it there because it would not occur to them that a woman might use it for a weapon. She would not have met someone who would leave it there not simply as bait, but as a distraction.
The one thing that might be slightly disturbing: Ramsay might actually know something about Wildlings.
Enjoyed the episode immensely.
Jon’s new character is evolving I think. Kit H. said he will do some fun stuff this season. Hopefully not a series of fangirl romances, or worse, gratuitous body shots or soft porn (like they did with Dany – have to have the nude shot occasionally even if it doesn’t really make sense to work the plot that way. ) She is beautiful but needs more meat to her plotline.
Littlefinger – barfs
Ossa – *sniff, Byeee!
Tormund 🙂 Brienne ♥
VegoDread,
What didn’t you like about Tyrion, this episode?
I can understand the complaints for the past episodes, the scenes were mostly there for comedy but I thought he was great this episode.
Mrs. Snow,
Ah, my sweet summer child, but it was her! Check the new EW interview.
She’s not opposed to nudity if the context of the story warrants it, like last night’s ep and when she became unburnt the first time. I also read somewhere that the nudity clause/contract thing was one of those internet myths amalgamated with the game “telephone”.
Mrs. Snow,
It was no body double, it was all her. There’s an interwiev with her where she says so.
Yes, Margaery, in her scene with the High Sparrow but I have no idea why this single-sentence quote warrants being the title of the episode. I’d love to see a deeper explanation.
Is this summing up the futility of the game of thrones? Of life in Westeros? Of the drive to top the Joneses? Does this theme reverberate in the rest of the episode, beyond the High Sparrow’s conversion experience after his orgy-fest when the cobbler gave up his shoes forever?
Mihnea,
Maybe this could replace “Castle” (pouring one out for Nathan Fillion). One can dream.
It was a great episode ….and I love watching tyrion …..He must be planning something ….I don’t see what …it is …and that’s a good thing ……and grey worm and missandei are stepping up …..pretty cool ….happy with meereen. ..
but nothing is awesome as what is going on in castle black …I had so much mixed emotions watching that scene today …
dany got an army ….A huge one …she needs a commander for that army.. I hope she finds someone to command the dothraki division now …I actually thought khal moro would stick around ….and follow her …He seemed like a good actor and powerful leader …but he had to die….
ummm did we get tammar Hussain ‘ s khal today….coz if we didn’t he could be dany’s new general. ….
deekan,
I agree! I am getting tired of Tommen’s back and forth on who to trust. not tired in the sense of crappy scenes, just tired of the character being such a pudwack for being raised by Lannisters, I don’t hate it for the show just wondering when or if he will finally order strength. Cersei keeps dancing around the idea of force with Tommen, I wish she would just be more blunt, but she loves her child and she knows that he can tell when she is using him, she has to use her words carefully. NEED MORE JAMIE!
pras,
My take on Tyrion’s actions.
He is buying time. He clearly doesn’t mean it, that he’ll let them keep slaves for 7 years. He tries to make them keep the Harpies at bay and not destroy Meereen, by causing a civil war.
He is simply trying to prevent a outright war until Dany returns.
No, they’re at Runestone. They left to tour the Vale in episode 408, and were at Royce’s castle in 501. It’s a bit off because they still use the Eyrie as the Vale’s opening titles entry.
The Ironborn have spent the last four seasons ravaging the western coast of the North, which is the only place Theon could have gone to get a ship. I would say it’s doubtful there’s been much trading going on, let alone that any Northerners would be eager to take him there. I’d say he found some Ironborn, but Yara said in 602 that the Ironborn had been driven out of the North.
Well, it’s not just that it’s a fantasy. It’s fiction, and it’s a story. You get big jumps in time between scenes in stories set in the modern world. People just standardize accordingly: one scene they are at home, the next they are at the airport: oh, time must have elapsed over which they did all the stuff you do before going to an airport. One scene it’s autumn, the next scene it’s snowing: oh, multiple weeks or even months must have elapsed.
In this world, distance = time. So, if someone traveled a long way, assume that days or even weeks passed. This would be a slow world by our standards.
As for implausible things happening, well, watch Myth Busters! They frequently go at the things that happen all the time in TV and film: and most of them are just as “fantastic” as the temple burning so quickly. Bullets do not set off gas tanks. Cars very rarely flip over in crashes. Forensics teams cannot reconstruct whole faces from a fragment of cheek bone. Etc., etc. (But elephants do avoid walking on mice!)
Lyanna_Targaryen,
Feisty as always, love it!
And I’m not sure it’s been asked, but was that a body double for Dany? It just didn’t look right around her neck/face/jawline to me…
plop_plop,
She filmed in a studio in Belfast and was digitally added into the scene, witch was filmed in Spain.
Yes it is her.
Steel_Wind,
Why would Loras kill himself? He is broken yes but not sure why there is any indication he will kimself. I mean who knows, but no idea where that speculation came from, totally feels like it is outta left field even for GoT. Not many suicides. Except Maester Cressen.
Izatty,
Didn’t Sam tell him that they were alive? I know in the book he doesn’t, but I recall him telling him on the show.
This is internet hearsay, it was her. Please go read the EW interview and stop repeating this garbage which was invented by show haters on westeros.org
Stargaryen,
He isn’t killing himself…..there is nothing he could use in the cell he is locked….
VegoDread,
I am tired of dick jokes! I don’t need to hear another anytime soon this season. Or maybe leave them out completely.
My thought is that we were seeing the strangers’ playbooks throughout. Tyrion is doing things Tyrion-style in Meereen, which clearly is completely foreign to everyone. Daeny is doing things her way in Vaes Dothrak, and catching everyone completely off-guard. And even Ramsay uses a strange playbook on Osha, setting her up to think that he’s a typical kneeler lord, and then showing that he’s not.
So, the Book of the Stranger nicely describes the tactics employed in three of the primary plot-threads.
I was so excited when the show opened with Sansa arriving at Castle Black. I am so invested in this show it’s scary to think I was cheering that she had arrived. The reunion was so splendidly done I would not have complained if the show had ended there..lol. So happy they included the show version of the Pink Letter! The meal with Tormand and Brienne was awesome…I chuckled out loud. It was a “glad they included it moment.” It IS so entertaining to see what the characters have been through and how they are changed because of it.
Alfie Allen is doing a bang-up job this year with Theon’s character. I was a sad that his reunion wasn’t as warm as the one Sansa received after all he has gone through, but understandably Yara was not happy with him. She is the stronger of the two.
Creepy Robin and Littlefinger are back and Littlefinger is doing what he does best, still moving the pieces around the chess board. It should be interesting when he and Sansa meet up again. I’d like her to hang him, but she will need the Vale to stand behind her.
As to Ramsey and Osha we all knew it had to happen and I knew the moment she walked in the room she was going to go down fighting, but it didn’t make it any easier to take. That was a very brief return to the screen and now I’m seriously concerned for Rickon. So hoping Ramsey doesn’t decide to flay him, but afraid they both might end up flayed and on display:(
To see Cersei and Olenna agreeing on something was troubling, but understandable. Margery isn’t broken, but her brother seemed so like Jon in the fact he has no fight left in him. There was little King’s Landing to get excited about and I thought Jonathan Pryce’s monologue would not be entertaining for most people, but I love his acting so I didn’t mind. Pretty sure my daughter cat-napped through that part.
I understand Tyrion trying to be politic, but I about fell out of my chair when he said “seven years.” Dany is NOT going to be happy with him. His week of slavery, as Sue pointed out, can’t compare with what the slaves have had to endure. I can’t see them being happy with it either.
Dany….it DID seem rushed. The affects were awesome and I know someone on here had said they bet she was the one who set the hall on fire and I was so pleased. It was stunning to see her step out of the flames and my thoughts that she wasn’t immune to fire (and it was a one time thing with the dragons being born) was so wrong.
I had a feeling that the entire episode was women rising to the their challenges when Sansa first showed how strong she was in contrast to Jon and was so happy to see I was right. The women in this show certainly have come into their own.
Sorry for going on and on, I don’t usually, but I felt it was great to see the story starting to merge along the lines we all want to see.
The last 3 consecutive nights, I’ve dreamt about Ramsay.
– In the first one, I was living my old house here in denmark and I was hiding Sansa. Ramsay came, and I had to go-kart-race this guy I used to play soccer with in order to keep Sansa. We never liked each other, but I explained to him what Ramsay had done to Sansa, so he refused to race, and Ramsay just kinda ran off.
– In the second, Roose Bolton was a friend of the family and when we visited, Ramsay would taunt and mock me. At some point, I found out that he was killing people and keeping them in the house. There was an akward moment, where he followed to the door and we both knew that I had seen something I shouldt, so we talked randomly. I even sugested he started writing in order to get all the darkness out. Then the police came.
– In the third, Ramsay had killed my father (before the dream began). I was just sitting in an empty room thinking about it, and feeling helpless because there was nothing I could do about it for some reason.
Through all three dreams, I was extremely afraid and I woke bathed in sweat.
It’s weird because the Winterfell storyline is not the one I’m most excited about and Iwan Rheons Ramsay (while a great villain) is still not as good as Gleasons Joffrey in my opinion. I dont know, maybe he is after all. At least, Gleason didn’t haunt me through dreams 3 nights running. I sincerely hope it stops tonight.
Lyanna_Targaryen,
It isn’t even her body I thought it was CGI body double. She said a season ago she is done with nudity on the show.
So what are the odds that Robyn will try to throw his new falcon from the Moon Door? XD
Lyanna_Targaryen,
People are fucked
Mihnea,
I strongly agree with you. ……..that seems most probable. …..yet the show could surprise…big time……..
They should have used the money to go large on a colourful song and dance routine, Bollywood style.
Just kidding
Did we just become best friends? Haha!
Question about the promo for the next episode. I thought that “Bran learns a great deal” or something like that meant that we were getting the next scene in the Tower of Joy. But it looks like it’s only about him seeing the White Walker threat for the first time. Did the leaks say anything about when we might see the rest of it?
Jared,
You’re awesome
I loved when Robin said lets go save Sansa and LF was, that’s exactly what I was thinking! and he is so proud.
Kudos to the actor, he is great as Robin.
I suspect that Tyrion does mean it. What it really comes down to is the crux of the stories: two ideals often come into conflict with each other. You cannot have emancipation and peace simultaneously if one side is willing to fight to keep slaves. However, his job as Daeny’s agent is to work for both.
I did like Tyrion throwing it in their faces that despite the fact one of them had bought him last year, he had grown up as rich as any of them. He probably should have had a harpist playing Rains of Castamere: but that never charted in Essos!
Sansa’s dialogue was a bit off this episode. I have no problem with her wanting to take back Winterfell and all, but give it a rest. This came out of nowhere, it feels as if the plot is forcefully being moved forward. Jon’s reaction to the pink letter was pretty much what I expected. He has doubts, he’s more cautious, and perhaps even a bit afraid, now that he’s experienced death.
How is LF going to worm his way out of the fact that he pretty much gave Sansa to Ramsey knowing what kind of beast he was? (Roose can keep him in check?) I think this reunion is going to be more awkward than the Brienne-Davos-Mel encounter.
My guess is Sansa turns into the manipulator and LF the manipulated.
Jon Something,
No. There is no info as to when we can expect TOJ part2.
I guess I’m more impatient than anything else…I just don’t understand where they are going with him – For instance, does he really think giving the Master 7 years to phase out slavery is a good idea, or is it a ploy?
targstark,
It makes sense for him to react this way after not seeing anything on the other side. Ok. I think those of us who have issue with how he was last night are really just disappointed that his getting killed off seems to, as of now, be for no good reason whatsoever. Of course, there must be a reason for it in the future but it’s easy to feel let-down when we don’t precisely know where the future is heading. I’m sure it’s just a lull, and it is realistic to be sure, after the way it went down. Some of us were expecting the ordeal to be an illumination of sorts. We aren’t getting that but we must have patience because it could still end up having the pay off we’d hoped, just being delayed.
Where does Dany go next? Still the matter of needing ships to head to Westeros….I’m guessing she gets them from Greyjoy…..
Great episode, I really enjoyed the Lannister, Tyrell scenes…..I think we’ll see Sam soon drop off Gilly at his family home and then Randall Tarly head to Kings Landing to lead the Tyrell army against the sparrows.
What was up with the Pycelle scenes last night? Is he about to meet his demise or maybe working with someone like Kevan to take Cersei and Jaime down?
Yes, Show!Sam did.
VegoDread,
Are you me? Hahaha
VegoDread,
I think he just tries to avoid a full on war/civil war.
I don’t think he really means what he promised, I think he is simply trying to buy time until Dany is back.
A generous offer is the best way, it could even cause inner-fighting among the cities.
Volantis, who isn’t that close to Meereen, might agree, but Yunkai and Astapor refuse, this weakens his enemies and buys him time. And might even stop the Harpies from getting money, for a time.
He didn’t know, according to the writers.
ygritte,
Agreed! Good to see you be positive again 🙂
VegoDread,
“With that said, can someone please explain to me what is going on with Tyrion – I think the writing for him this season is seriously lacking?”
Either you’re being intentionally funny or you don’t realize how that sounded, either way it’s amusing 🙂
The TV letter only gave us information we already had. The book letter smacked us upside the head with big reveal after big reveal (any of which a reader has to doubt at least somewhat, then Tormund hints we should doubt it more), whereupon it is immediately followed up on by a major move by Jon, then Jon getting stabbed to death. That BAM-BAM-BAM was one of the most powerful points in the books.
I am glad they were able to include a Pink Letter in the show, but given how they chose to do it, it could never carry the kind of impact the book letter did, because most of that energy and tension has already been spent. I did find it interesting that Sansa (without a basis, really) asserts that the part about Rickon is true after Jon expresses some doubts. Is this supposed to be a hint that the book letter is closer to the true/authentic end of the spectrum of possibilities?
And as a side note, I do love it how Littlefinger now seems to know everything going on in the North.
Sean C.,
Ah Thanks
Dee,
He is all of us.
The only thing that worries me about this episode is where is Ghost? Jon should keep him be his side 24/7/365…..
Pigeon,
Changing the look of someone is a standard in TV, Movies, any type of visual media to do two things: Show a person has changed or make a person standout in a large group of people. The man-bun on the show is representing Jon is changed from the Jon that was in the NW. I read a lot of articles and comments and everyone that mentions Jon agrees that he has changed. So the show has done a great job with that, the man bun helps to visualize that change. Just like when Fin in Star Wars had the blood on his helmet. Or Why Stannis was only soldier at Blackwater not wearing a helmet. You have visually show the star being different. Just standard visual media writing, that’s all.
Redxgod,
They use a real wolf, and film his scenes in Canada then make him bigger with CGI.
The Direwolfs can simply not have a huge part, it’s simply to much effort for a 2 seconds shot ”oh here is Ghost”.
Same way Dany won’t just fly Drogon every chance she gets. In the books you need 10 lines and Dany is soaring in the skies. While in the Show in would take months to film and the costs would be huge.
Nobody knew what Ramsay was like, save perhaps Roose. The Boltons are very good at keeping secrets from other Northerners. Compound that with the fact that little news from the North makes it to Kings Landing brothels, and LF would know very little about the Boltons save their reputations: and LF would know far better than to trust projected reputations.
There is a remote chance that Varys might have known something: but if there is someone who would have been a match for Varys’ system of little birds, then it would have been Roose.
Again, one thing people have to remember is that this is a world in which news does not travel well, and the news that does travel is 9 bits of exaggeration, misunderstanding and outright lie for every bit of truth. Indeed, there is one of the ironies: on the off-chance that LF heard any “truth” about Ramsay, then he would be smart enough to dismiss it as no more believable than the Freys’ claims that the Starks were werewolves. You basically would be expecting the betrayed Northerners to fabricate nasty stories about the Boltons at this point!
To all the haters – Dany not only looked strong and beautiful, she IS strong and beautiful (Emilia too). What a great episode!
Cersei’s Brain,
Emilia was amazing I agree! Always love when she goes in her ”badass” mode!
He knows two things that are getting a lot of attention in the North: indeed, one of them is something to which the Northerners themselves are calling attention. That is a far cry from knowing “everything” or from knowing anything that people are trying to keep quiet.
That written, one wonders if having Ramsay in charge is going to open up “leaks.” Roose was very good at imposing blackouts. However, Ramsay is much less elegant in his techniques and less sophisticated in his world-view.
Wimsey,
True. But that is also showing Sansa playing the great game with cards she has been dealt and putting LF on the back foot.
Was last night the first time we got to see a reference to Book Daario’s naked women weapons? “He stood with his hands crossed at the wrists, his palms resting on the pommels of his blades; a curving Dothraki arakh on his left hip, a Myrish stiletto on his right. Their hilts were a matched pair of golden women, naked and wanton.” –A Storm of Swords, Pages 582-583.
Daario was often stroking these naked-women pommels as he was flirting with Dany, which I found creepy. But I was still excited to see the naked woman knife in the show, like a book shout-out. “I’m very attached to this knife,” Daario says as he kisses Naked-Woman’s ass.
Wimsey,
He did seem to have true affections for her so that makes sense. I guess I put him in the same light as Varys “knows everything”. He’ll have some serious splainin to do when they meet next week. More than likely Sansa’s main concern is saving Rickon saving WF then flaying the bastard…
Hoyti Von Totiy,
I thought what we read was the Stark army was down to the Boltons 6 to 1. Remember the Bolton’s have the Karstarks and Umbers and are gunning for the Manderly’s as well. We don’t know how many soldiers Karstark has. We do know the Umber’s can’t beat the Wildlings per SmallJon so they must have significantly less than them, I am guessing no more than 1200. I bet currently the Boltons have probably around 8500-9000 soldiers currently. Still have to hear from Manderly’s, Cerwyn’s, Hornwoods, Glovers, and Mormonts. There was also mention of Tallharts a few seasons back.
Side Note – Ravens are still used. Ramsay used them to announce his marriage to all of Westeros. But generally like Varys said he trust “birds” over Ravens and I think the rest of Westeros is starting to agree.
I haven’t read all the comments, so apologies if this is a repeat:
Did anyone else note the inconsistency between what the HS told Tommon (that Margorie is planning to confess) and Marge’s attitude / talk w Loras? She told her brother that they can’t give in. I think this might be significant. Maybe the HS lied and it’s some sort of trap? Because from Margories scenes I saw no indication that she is inclined to confess.
I’m also on board w Sue that Tyrions plan is…well worth attention. Initially I thought maybe he is slipping because he must understand it’s not a good plan. But maybe he is just trying to buy time. He didn’t indicate that to Grey Worm or Missandei.
gnarlytarly,
This will probaly break her from LF…..or she might ”forgive” him because she realizes she needs his army.
With respect to Jon’s character, his being traumatized after the attack makes plenty of sense, but I’m sort of wondering how his talk about “nothing after death” works. If there really is nothing, then he should basically have felt like he woke up after falling asleep. The way he’s talking makes it sound like he has memories of the void, which is kind of a contradiction in terms; that means there is an afterlife, just not a very pleasant one.
Ginevra,
He used the knife while killing the meereenese champion on breaker of chain
And he was stroking those ladies while hizdar and him were reporting to dany in wars to come and dany while listening to hizdar …eyed darrio stroking the lady ..
On a rewatch sometime somethings will be very great and nice than in the books…one such thing is tormund and brienne…i couldnt stop laughing at those scenes
Toast,
Your comment makes me want to do more of em! Jonsa, Jansa, Briemund, Lord Mel the Onion Fire. Arya Hagr. What about all 4 of Meereen at once – Grey Messirion Master of Whispers. Jaario is pretty good. Could do Dany and her Dragon = Drony! Moras for Marg and Loras.
I find it comical that you state you are an old guy asking for help from the younger people then proceed to bash the younger people.
also thought according to the episode description it will be next episode. But now it seems it might later one, maybe before the big battle at WF happens?
Tormund checking out Brienne may now be the greatest wordless thing ever. Especially as he continues to gnaw on whatever the hell he’s eating, food that is much below the quality of what Brienne/Sansa are used to, but still like 8 levels above what the Wildlings probably survive on.
Yes, I know. You honestly believe that Roose and Ramsay ruled the north for twelve episodes and a year and a half real time (and similarly TV-universe time) as sweet little angels, before reverting to form immediately after LF convinced Sansa to head north. And you believe that Ramsay could make a habit of hunting people with hounds without gaining a reputation, because it is such a quiet, secretive hobby. Like Sansa’s knitting. Who would gossip about something so trivial? And his tortured pet Theon that he paraded around openly? No one would talk about that, either. A total secret. No way LF would ever catch wind of that.
But somehow he knows Sansa has fled, despite the very bizarre fact that Ramsay seems to be keeping it a secret (he certainly isn’t behaving rationally and sending his 5994 not-so-good men after her!) and knows where she has fled despite there being no obvious way for him or anyone to know this. Did someone see her? If they did, why would that get to LF faster than Ramsay?
I don’t know about “more than he could chew.” The Bedder of Bears prefers a feisty, challenging woman, methinks.
DragonWench39,
I would assume she told him off screen. I don’t see her keeping that news from her brother.
Ginevra,
I took it more as a symbol of the rebirth theme of this season, in a sense. The passage is about being in a graveyard, facing the concept of death and changing because of it, thus walking out of the graveyard a new (“reborn”) person.
-We had our first glimpse at how literal death changed Jon.
-We had Sansa and Theon finding new objectives in their lifes after their hell-like experience in Winterfell
-Dany being back to square one, stripped of her power realizing that diplomacy, title shouting or even escaping would not do it and deciding to unchain her inner dragon.
Mike Stark,
Jon already knew.
Sam told him in S4.
Stargaryen,
On Jon’s “change”: it’s hard to tell how he may have changed. He’s less interested in fighting to save the world. He’s more interested in his independence and his family ties. It’s not what I expected. But I’m hoping exactly how he is supposed to be “different” becomes more clear. For me, dying and coming back through Magic a day later should be impactful than being betrayed, even though such an experience will undoubtedly change you. Anyway, I’m interested and hoping for more.
taim,
Blood of my Blood seems like a good title for the TOJ2 scene.
“Book of the Stranger” was a fantastic episode of GoT, and reinforced the fact that we are heading towards the endgame. The Jon and Sansa reunion was beautifully portrayed, and Ramin Djawadi knocked it out of the park. The pink letter scene was great, with all the different characters together. I think The North will be my favourite location this year, with each scene getting better and better. Seriously pumped for the Battle.
Dany was great, and I’m so glad that we were all wrong, and that Drogon didn’t need to help her this time. I’m also enjoying her story this year after what seemed like decades in Meereen. It is a little sad to see Khal Moro go, but I’m glad we got to see a Khal who was very different to Drogo.
I thought the other scenes were fine, if unspectacular, although I did feel that the KL scenes dragged just a little. The confrontation with the Faith Militant should be good though.
As I mentioned in the other thread, it is sad to Osha depart, but it was inevitable really. At least she wasn’t killed off-screen.
Looks like there is plenty to look forward to again next week. Kinvara looks great, so that should be fun to see. Not looking forward to the stupid Littlefinger jetpack comments.
aabe,
Wow, you’re right (not sure about Jon, but it would be interesting if he is). Great catch!
Basically goes into the passage Marge read out aloud, eg walking through the Graveyard is a metaphor for walking through the “Valley of Death” as it were
So it is about going through experiences of death of some kind and finding renewal of purpose through doing so and passing to “the other side”
Starting with High Sparrow, he woke after a debauched party to the fact he was dead inside and went on a new path without looking back
So
– Jon Snow is quite literal, he comes back and as we see from the clothing re-claims his Stark identity
– Sansa is similar, living in her Home occupied by her enemies and treated as she was is a kind of “death” experience emotionally etc, eg she was ready to die in Winterfell while there was still something left of her. Now she is talking about re-taking it on behalf of the Starks (Home is where the Heart is and all that)
– Brienne obviously walked through the Graveyard and all them dead bodies to avenge Renly as discussed but now she has new purpose (serving Sansa)
– Mel and Davos had to go through Stannis death all over again, Shireen question was asked but Mel has renewal through deciding that Jon is PtwP now and Davos seems similarly inclined to help the Starks
– Obviously Marge and Loras are going through a deadening experience, but Marge is passing through to the other side etc and will likely be released soon it seems
– Theon has gone through a massive deadening experience, Yara too with her old man but her relationship with her brother (eg “I was told that can’t be true, Theons been dead a long time”) but we see here their relationship is being renewed
– Jorah is basically a walking dead man, passing through the valley of death etc
– Masters and Nobility are very similar, eg their attitudes but the Masters having to face the death of their economic model and to the former slaves a single day in slavery is like death etc etc
– And of course Dany, going through the death fire experience which is a kind of purification but there’s the death of all the old tradition and the birth of a new one, hence the reason her experience harkens back to the death of Drogo and birth of Dragons moment
There also the strong theme regarding tradition – and the death of it
From this perspective the book of the Stranger and how it relates to a certain “Gravedigger” character is fascinating
Fascinating!
A happy game of thrones episode? Now I have seen it all.
Sansa is definitely not going to execute Littlefinger. Maybe down the road, but she just heard the numbers and knows she’s gonna need all the help she can get, and the Vale has the freshest, strongest army left in Westeros outside of the Tyrells. Their involvement all but guarantees a Stark victory, but how many free folk and northerners have to die before they get there?
Dany has been fireproof from season 1. This wasn’t a just-made decision. She stepped into a bath that was near boiling that burned her handmaiden. She held a dragon egg that had been laying in a fire that seared the skin off Doreah’s hand. She told Jorah after Viserys died that fire cannot harm a dragon. They’ve been off-canon about this from the very beginning, so I don’t see what the big deal is. Will this be more drawn out in the books? I have no idea. As soon as I finished reading Dany’s last chapter where she looks up and sees Khal Jhago, a man she swore revenge upon, with Drogon still with her, my sense was that he has about ten minutes left in this world and she was going to take over his Khalasar right then and there, but maybe not. Maybe they’ll take her to Vaes Dothrak just as they did here. She doesn’t have nearly as much time in the books because Meereen is already under siege and she needs to get back.
As for conquering Volantis, I’ve had the sense for years now that the red priests and priestesses there are fomenting a slave rebellion in Daenerys’ name. I think the slaves of the city will overthrow the ruling class themselves and when that big navy arrives at the same time as the Ironborn, they’ll already be declared for the queen and there won’t even be a fight. I don’t think she needs to conquer Volantis.
And of course there is zero chance she’s going to agree to Tyrion’s plan. At best, he’s biding time. Maybe he believes he can actually make this deal. He can’t. The queen just took over all the Dothraki. That’s 100,000 bloodriders. Compare that to the 8,000 Unsullied she claimed to have. She isn’t going to mess around with peacemaking any more. The wise masters will be dead by the end of the season. All of them.
But enough about her. Loved the Stark reunion. My wife read some article with a questionnaire guaranteed to make any person fall in love with you or something and asked me all the questions and one of them was when was the last time you cried? I couldn’t remember. Now the answer is last night. I love the new Sansa, too. She’s as done messing around as Daenerys is. When Lord Arryn and the Knights of the Vale finally get there, they’ll be putty in her hands. Littlefinger is hers if he survives, not the other way around. I just wonder if she’ll have anything to do with what looks to be the slaughter of a whole bunch of Lannisters and Freys at what is probably Walder Frey’s wedding (don’t see the show introducing Genna Lannister at this point), or if that’s purely a Tully/Brotherhood play. I can’t wait to see Blackfish and Edmure get back into the game. They’ll obviously throw their full support behind Sansa, too, as soon as they’re able to.
Regarding Bran’s vision in the next episode and Meera trying to wake him, if we recall Bran has been having greenseer dreams since season 1. They happen while he sleeps normally, but he is not able to control them yet without Bloodraven’s assistance. That must be what is happening there, but the twist seems to be that the dead can see him. Presumably, this is how they learn he exists and come to attack the cave later on with the fireball scene and Meera looking up at the cave entrance and flinching. I’m sure the two of them will get away but how and where will they go? Hopefully Bloodraven can have his Obi Wan moment and become more powerful than Darth Night’s King can possibly imagine and put to rest this past decade of speculation that he is actually in cahoots with the Others.
Anyway, I’m looking forward to the kingsmoot next week and keeping my fingers crossed for a Dragonbinder reveal.
ghost of winterfell,
I wonder who Dany is going to marry. She’ll have to reproduce to ensure the succession lol.
Mihnea,
On Sansa and LF: I don’t know how she will react. However I have two observations. Sophie Turner said she thought LF should be king in an interview (or something like that). This makes me think she will at least not kill him. Also, I feel like if she were to kill him Robyn wouldn’t be happy.
She needs soldiers so whether or not she “forgives” him, I don’t think that the new Sansa is about to miss an opportunity of swelling her ranks for the battle for Winterfell. She might put him in a position of shame in the hopes that it will bind him to her more tightly. Or he might be convinced of the utility of helping her to take it and having new allies in the North. I’d say he would marry her, but I don’t think Jon would sanction it. And it seems like Sansa is going to try to sell Jon as the rightful warden. Brothers and sisters can share power without being married. Of course they married in Westeros, but Sansa and Jon could plan to share power, maybe as regents for Rickon.
Flayed Potatoes,
I think she had said a few times that the Dragons are the only children she will ever bear, which explains what she said to the Khal. That she would not have a son with him or any other man. Therefore, lets hope there is another Targaryen somewhere in the world who can further the line.
Tyrion.
But seriously, the more we see the more I am convinced she is a conquerer, not a ruler. So she will need to either hand it off to someone or marry a good ruler. Jon? Tyrion? They are both unwed.
Fleabottom’s home,
I thought it was remarkably well done – very realistic. The way she simply, playfully demands “forgive me” – no pretense of being a lady or having to truly plead – he is her brother, she can be like that with him.
I think many people are different when they are around family. I have observed this in many friends (and I probably do it, too) – because they have grown up around these people, they are fixed in the way they interact and they behave according to a role that was assigned to them within the family that is very different from who they are outside of it.
Markus Stark,
not true, though. I’ve posted plenty of criticism from being underwhelmed by plot decisions to character portrayals I dislike to actors I feel shouldn’t have been cast. I have even stated that I liked something better in the books. And while I have heard counterarguments to my arguments, there was only one incident in which someone got really mean (which was, I believe, an argument about my dislike for the character of Daenerys). This site is very civil, especially in comparison to what goes on on the internet pretty much anywhere else from youtube to comment pages on online magazines to other fansites. Stop bashing it.
Stargaryen,
Littlefinger has been able to move around Westeros quicker than anyone throughout the entire series. Not sure why his ability to get to the wall in an episode is that much of a surprise. It should be expected. Littlefinger works quickly, he wastes no time!
This is not an explanation.
kakakakate,
Can you imagine if they wasted all that time with Littlefinger/any other character travelling though? You have to imagine that every episode combined with the gap between them spans at least a couple of weeks, if not much longer.
I get what you’re saying. I really do. We are done with the travelogues. Still, the idea that LF will go from the Vale to CB requires some explanation. If he goes by land, we (the viewer) need to know what happened when he met Ramsay. It doesn’t need to be shown but it should be said.
If he goes by sea and the scene takes place at Eastwatch then how did LF and Sansa know to meet there?
JonFookinSnow,
Well the show is about how all the main characters are training for the ending. Sansa being taught politics by Cersei and Baelish. Jon learning how to lead. Arya learning to be the badass warrior she wants to be. Bran training to be greenseer. Dany training to be queen. They have all made mistakes. You can’t give the others a pass on their failures and not give Dany any.
Fleabottom’s home,
I thought it was remarkably well done – very realistic. The way she simply, playfully demands “forgive me” – no pretense of being a lady or having to truly plead – he is her brother, she can be like that with him.
I think many people are different when they are around family. I have observed this in many friends (and I probably do it, too) – because they have grown up around these people, they are fixed in the way they interact and they behave according to a role that was assigned to them within the family that is very different from who they are outside of it.
Markus Stark,
not true, though. I’ve posted plenty of criticism from being underwhelmed by plot decisions to character portrayals I dislike to actors I feel shouldn’t have been cast. I have even stated that I liked something better in the books. And while I have heard counterarguments to my arguments, there was only one incident in which someone got really mean (which was, I believe, an argument about my dislike for the character of Daenerys). This site is very civil, especially in comparison to what goes on on the internet pretty much anywhere else from youtube to comment pages on online magazines to other fansites. Please stop bashing it.
Tycho Nestoris,
You don’t NEED to know
Dee,
Fine, it would help my enjoyment to know
I cried like a large ass baby with the stark reunion
It was everything
Dee,
Agreed. Not the way he means it at least, in my opinion.
LF won’t just pop in the house he speaks with Sansa, we will get a scene showing him march with army….or who knows perhaps he goes ahead of the army with a small group of people.
It will be by land in my opinion, if he wanted to go by sea, there would have been some hints.
Anyway the ”teleporting” arguments is null and void for me, characters need to move so we can have a story, them moving a great distance simply means quite some time has passed.
Tycho Nestoris,
Hahahaha better !!!
I don’t think you’re going to get much explanation
Mihnea,
I’m Gonna assume like 5 days passed since his convo with robin
That’s enough time
But who the fuck actually cares
JonFookinSnow,
Yes, things tend to go her way. No one would ever disagree with that. But it is exactly the same way in the books. Not sure if you are a book reader or not but this is just kind of what happens with her in the books. it is nice to see a protagonist actually grab the reigns and do something for a change instead of others helping the main character. The show has to condense storylines and move them along and you know this. You have wrote on here a long time, you know this. They can’t hit every scene. I told my roommate that Dany’s last scene will be torn to pieces by critics but it was still good. don’t know any other way for DANY (not drogon) to earn the Dothraki respect and maybe GRRM plans in the books don’t work well for TV. All I can say is the Dothraki don’t deal with large fires or water. Burning buildings and floating ships are not their forte. They are not the brightest and will most likely be her Vanguard when fighting the others.
Dee,
They could show Mount Cailin, it is a symbolic location and would inform the viewer that LF is in the North, hell a 5 sec shot would be enough.
But I do not expect anything more.
Mihnea,
Dee,
LF won’t just pop in the house he speaks with Sansa
I don’t think you’re going to get much explanation
This is my main concern. I don’t have “teleporting suspension of disbelief” perfected yet.
Danys scene was epic
Loved it
Jansa and dany were perfection in this episode
Tycho Nestoris,
Well if Sansa enters the house and LF pops from the shadows I will agree with you.
But a simple shot showing him march with the army/band would be enough for me.
Dee,
Daario’s face was gold! He always had a more relaxed relation with her, mostly because unlike Jorah he didn’t saw her survive the burning pyre.
I love their different reactions.
Thanks, Wimsey. I couldn’t help but think of TPB with your quote. Her way is not very sportsman-like.
I’m sure it’s coming. I was a bit surprised he didn’t mention it as well.
Jon: Oh, by the way, I killed a White Walker. They’re coming. Old Nan wasn’t making that shit up.
Sansa: Really?
Jon: Reclaiming Winterfell won’t matter when they come.
Minor detail, but I have confidence that info is to be explored soon!
Can’t wait for Sansa to witness a giant!
Littlefinger travel time. Say he rode ahead of an army with about 15 guards on horseback, he can cover roughly 50 miles a day at a reasonable pace… and say it is 1300 miles from Runestone to Castle Black.. that is 26 days. so just over 3 weeks have passed.. not that long in the grand scheme of things. If he arrives by carriage it would be 20 miles a day and would take him 65 days.. which is quite a long time. Anyway…
I kinda know what you’re saying but there have been similar instances in S5 where Sansa asserts herself regarding WF (although the environment was different). She mentions that WF is her home and (bravely) states that it’s just the people there who are strange. Also she confronts Myranda right before her wedding and remember just how much venom she had for Theon when she was Ramsays prisoner.
My point is if she can do this when in such a dangerous situation, it comes as no real surprise that she’d be this brave and ballsy after several weeks of freedom from Ramsays horrors, safe with Brienne, finding additional safety at CB and having her big brother with her again.
All she wants is to reclaim her home and reunite her family, whilst avenging what happened to the Starks. Sansas arc this season is by far the highlight for me.
There was so much fuss last year about her “loss of agency” (not sure I agree but let’s leave it at that), And now she’s got it back in spades- and it’s a delight to see.
Stargaryen,
Are you saying dany does not take things on her own hands in the books .
Demon Monkey,
I disagree I believe she is every bit as a ruler as Jon will be ..
Though I believe her story is not going to be about ruling but conquering and end up as a sacrifice to save the realm
I agree with your argument here, but I have to disagree about the Fanboys. Obsessive fans who would be involved in a work of fiction to a crazy degree have existed for a very long time. There was, for instance, a novel published in Germany around 1770, whose protagonist wore certain clothes and who, after suffering from rejection and the general problems of the world (it is a Sturm und Drang novel), committed suicide. This guy had a crazy amount of fans who dressed up like him, wrote shitty romantic poetry and ultimately killed themselves, too. Talk about taking a work of fiction to seriously. Can you imagine what these guys would have done if sb. had adapted the novel as an opera and left out the blue coat and yellow waistcoat?
Triple Yay and drinks all around …for the Stark reunion…Great trio of Brienne Sansa and Pod… What nostalgia…
Had symmetry and reference to first ever GOT scene where the gate opened to frame the 3 Nightswatch brothers going on that ill fated ranging
Good to see LF slithering about again
Missed him
Though the Dany burning scene seemed a rehash it emphasised her being worship worthy ,,, killed many Khals and freed the Dosh Khaleen… She’d b a Dothraki Wonder Woman by now
And v v clever Pink Bolton Letter composition …. Come and see
Had enough of the original letter plus threats plus the twist of Sansa showing up to make the plot soooo dramatic
JonFookinSnow,
There probably will but
she said in an interview that it was her body, and she said before that she would only do nude scenes if it warrants the story.
I don’t think that Littlefinger is teleporting. When he’s talking he says “she’s escaped”and doesn’t say, “and made it to Castle Black.” I think we all tend to literally believe it’s the same day in every scene with every individual and there is nothing to say it’s noon in the Vale on the same day it’s noon at CB.
Not to criticize, I do it to then have to remind myself it’s probably not happening in the same time frame…just saying…
Dee,
With all the speculation that Jon and Sansa would miss each at CB I was almost convinced that they would take us in that direction. But when I heard the horn blow in Jons scene I knew we were going to get the reunion. For me it was the most rewarding scenes of the show to date. The next most rewarding scene will be when the bastard Ramsey gets the epic “payback is hell”.
Ah, lovely! Thank you.
dragonbringer,
Thanks!
Apollo,
Have to admit, I thought my favourite story will be Jon but damn Sansa’s story this year is simply great!
Can’t wait for Jon’s fight against Ramsey, hope they meet on the battlefield, and hope Dany’s story starts moving faster, I certainly didn’t think she’ll get out of this so fast!
Can’t wait to see what she does for the next 6 episodes!
Mihnea,
The real question now is.
Now that he has seen what dany is ..will he be riding the dragon again
Dee,
You are NOT ALONE. I think we all did. It was a great episode and I am so enjoying this season…by far the best to date. I kind of hate the bullet train we are on and wish we could get more background (like Sansa and Jon sharing what they’ve been through) but that isn’t plausible and I know it. If I have a complaint it’s that I wish someone would hurry up and off Ramsay, but we know there is a battle coming for him so I have to be patient…lol.
Flayed Potatoes,
As long as it’s not Daario, lol. In the first episode, she said that she will not bear any more children. She definitely believes MMD’s prophecy. However, in the books, that last chapter seemed to hint that she might have had a miscarriage?
The only other option for the end game ruler seems to be Jon. But somehow, I don’t think that’s where he will end up.
Alternatively, who knows, after all this talk of breaking the wheel ,Dany might start getting ideas somewhere along the lines of a democracy?
Seriously? Theon is completely broken, and Yara was always more of a leader than he anyway – even in the books. Show!Loras at least has always been much less of a player than his sister (so this is hardly a new thing). And Jon is suffering through PTSD, while Sansa already got partly over hers. It would make sense that she would take the lead here as she is currently – per her mental health and time to come to a decision as to what she wanted – the more decisive of the two.
This is about individual characters and where they are at the moment – in the story and in terms of their character development; those interactions are neither completely unexpected and out-of-character turns of events nor are they part of an artificially constructed feminist move. Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.
gnarlytarly,
Agreed on the horn. When I heard it I knew they will meet!
Heartwarming scene. I love how it takes both of the couple of seconds to fully realize they finally met another Stark.
Sansa and Jon haven’t seen another Stark since Season 1!
Any guesses on who Arya is going be assigned to take out with the special little bottle FM gives her?
There must always be a Stark at Winterfell because they (Others and wights) might come, and some Stark must be there to lead the army of the dead Kings of the North against the Others.
She did state that they offered to let her use a body double but she refused.. and is in fact quite proud of it.
I know this is not at all where the show is going, but having never seen Kit and Sophie share a scene till this episode – many they have great chemistry. Seeing Jon and Sansa smile and laugh? Priceless
Pate?
gnarlytarly,
Random person, so she can prove she is truly No one? She did fail last time.
Don’t know if you are a book-reader or not so I’m putting this in spoiler tags.
If you haven’t read the books, book 5 to me more precise, don’t read that.
Emilia has confirmed that it was her.
Yaga,
Essos doesn’t care about Fire and Blood. that is a Westerosi thing – Tyrion knows that if he chooses to fight the Slavers they will lose to many men to hope and take back westeros. He doesn’t know about the Dothraki being with her so he has to save as many troops as he can – his father taught him that when explaining killing the Starks over dinner instead in a battlefield. Tyrion is simply trying to come up with an idea to stop the bloodshed so no one else dies before Dany leaves. They will need every man they can get!
I’m still hoping we see LSH appear even though it looks like Arya is getting the honor of revenge.
I say I’m still hoping because the brotherhood without banners returns, Bran can see through time so we could see in a vision what happened to Caitlyn’s body after the red wedding.. We could learn that she’s been back since shortly after those events the whole time by way of flashback visions..
But… my hope for that is slim, I know we’re due to see Walder Frey again too much is another reason I’m slightly hopeful
Also, shows how far Sansa has changed – calling Jon the son of the last true Warden of the North, basically pushing that they’ll reclaim Winterfell in HIS name.
Agreed. Ramsay is such an undefeatable guy – a super capable fighter, a super smart tactician, super insightful when it comes to predicting what people will do, super good at manipulating people. If it weren’t for a few things he did rashly (if he had thought about them, his super understanding of how people tick would have kept him from doing them), one would have to wonder why he hasn’t conquered Planetos by now.
Just my uninformed guess…Tyrion or Sansa. Hired by Cersei.
*I have not read the books but am consumed by the show
Old Nan, is that you? 🙂
Linda Antonsson
Did anyone notice that the term “frey” was used twice in the episode? Sansa used it in reference to getting out of the “frey” and LF used it to get into the “frey”
All in all, it was the BEST. EPISODE. YET!
Knight of the Walkers,
LOL!
How about next episode though? DAMN, looks good. Littlefinger uses fast travel a lot (a joke obviously) Like VegoDread said, it’s a fantasy show, what do you expect?
Anyways, I am curious on what “The Door” means for next episode. I wasn’t expecting a white walker vision already, I think we will get another vision in Winterfell with the young Starks first before the White Walker vision.
I’m hype.
So I assumed Dany got the Khaleesi girl to help her by coating the hut in some form of flammable oil. I assume she did it early enough for it to soak in.
I thought it was odd that they had some long closeups of her nude but she does look great so I don’t mind. I thought they might have just had the view from farther away and not as long.
Ramsay: “We have 5,000 good men.”
Jon: “We have a Wun Wun.”
Angeala,
Tyrion states 7 years because he feels that will be enough time to get Dany set-up to leave for Westeros then not worry about Slaver’s Bay ever again. Just buying time for his new Queen
rhymeswithweak,
I think it’s obvious the young DK helped.
I think they focused on her to show that she unburnt and unharmed by the fire, to makes be in awe just as the Dothraki were.
Connor,
5000 Does that include the Umbers/Karstarks?
Winterstars,
Knight of the Walkers,
Ha! Yeah she would get a lot of support for making the list.
Sacred Lime,
I don’t think there is time left for Jon to fall in love and have babies. Strictly speaking he doesn’t have to fall in love. Maybe he and Dan could have a child. I’ve never seen how this story could end satisfactorily. But maybe Dany finally having a child and dying could be bittersweet. The denouement has always been something hard for me to theorize on.
JonFookinSnow,
Khals come to power by killing other khals. Dany just destroyed them all, becoming the leader of all Dothraki. Good thing her hair is long. She needs a serious braid. Maybe some extensions.
Reminds me of Hatshepsut, the Egyptian queen who declared herself King.
Mihnea,
I would guess without them. They don’t know the Umbers and Karstarks are with the Boltons. Sansa left before that alliance was made.
That’s a good point. Davos, Mel, Brienne, the wildlings… throw in LF in the mix (likely). They’re strange bedfellows indeed. Then in KL we see the Lannisters and Tyrells finally agreeing on something.
As Mance said, “if I have to explain this to you…there really is no point…but I wish you good luck in the wars to come…”
Hmm, Cersei and the Queen of Thorns being forced to work together. I’m thinking the outcome will be like Mao Zedong and Chiang Kai-Shek.
Oleana,
So that means Ramsey has about 10000(with Umbers/Karstarks/Mandarly)
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
Who’s who though?
That is the only thing I see as a reasonable solution for the situation in Essos. Dany left Astapor and Yunkai under specific rulers and they were overthrown. If someone actually survived, it will simply be the birth of another dynasty and anyways Dany can’t leave everything she fought for under the ethics of one single person or a small group of people. She did say ‘I am going to break the wheel’. This (democracy) is only way the wheel can be broken. And this is the only plan she can have about the future of Westeros, because she believes herself barren. She wants to conquer Westeros to avenge her family, but she must know there will be nothing left of her family after her death. Dany grew up in Braavos, which is ruled almost like a democracy, and I think Tyrosh also has some system of elected government. Maybe she had specific idealist plans for Westeros, who knows.
Good question! It remains to be seen…
Flayed Potatoes,
The show established that she is barren, so I would think she will not reproduce with a regular man and not without further ado. I believe the only way she will ever to be able to reproduce is if magic is involved again. Maybe after the long winter, the sun will rise in the West instead of the East and she will be cured. Or maybe it needs to be a man who has been touched my magic as well, such as Jon. (Please no!)
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
Also I’m confident will get Randyl Tarly next weak!
Mihnea,
Well, when the actual author comes out and says no dany can be burned by fire and literally says that her hatching the eggs was a one time magical event and he states that after that scene from season 1. I do believe the majority of people will side with GRRM over a person who comments on a website. Sorry you were called an idiot but I would have probably agreed with everyone disagreeing with you because her being burned isn’t something that needs to be kept quiet like is Jon dead. This will probably go down as one of the most talked about changes from the book, ya know how people are and I agree. I liked the scene, it was visually stunning. However, I do wish there was another way for her to gain the dothraki without Drogon and without her doing something magical again. I respect the books and the show for their differences but since we are at a point where we can say what we hope for in the next books – I hope the books don’t have her do this.
Best episode of the season so far!
Stargaryen,
In the books she will probaly just use Drogon to burn the Khal, the Khal she promised to kill in book 1.
Can’t bloody wait until Jon gets his Stark Furs back again now that he’s buggered off The Watch. Black always was his color haha, but he’s a Lord of Winterfell now. A new and improved S1 Jon!!
After seeing this episode, I’m relieved that Jon still have to eat and drink like normal people. (Book Melisandre did not need food, Beric case was ambiguous. We never see Beric or LSH eat or drink).
Stargaryen,
It doesn’t matter what the author of A Song of Ice and Fire thinks because this is not ASOIAF, it is GoT. If D&D went along with all of what George wanted we wouldn’t even be half way through AFFC/ADWD yet. 3 Seasons on those books! And some people thought Season 5 was slow! Imagine three seasons at an even slower pace.
Mihnea,
So that means Ramsey has about 10000(with Umbers/Karstarks/Mandarly)
Can we just have Jon pull an Aragorn plagiarism pre battle? That should turn the tide.
A day may come when the courage of men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship, but it is not this day. An hour of wolves and shattered shields, when the age of men comes crashing down, but it is not this day!
Tycho Nestoris,
I so want a Jon a speech!!!
Not sure if LF would get through Moat Cailin again as the Boltons hold it. Ramsays certainly not gonna let the Vale troops cross the Neck so I reckon they’ll have to travel by sea. And that doesn’t need to be shown as such, all that’s required is for LF to mention their mode of transport, and seeing as he’s never done so in the past, I see no reason that he will this time… He’ll have enough question from Sansa to deal with as it is.
Markus Stark,
I personally just like playing devils advocate to keep people open minded and possibly guessing. We get so many potential spoilers that its nice to poke holes in people’s theories so that your mind keeps thinking, this way even though we are all spoiler whores here, there still might be some surprise still! Love the Books, love the show, hate Ramsay!
Tycho Nestoris,
“By all that you hold dear on this good earth, I bid you stand, Men of the North!”
DragonWench39,
they also skipped the part when Jon told Sansa he was dead about a day ago lol. But through their conversation you could infer that they were pretty much all caught up on the backstories.
Flayed Potatoes,
If I was Lord Royce, I’d just rally all the Knights of the Vale to take out LF lol.
It would be nice but Royce doesn’t pay them, Littlefinger technically does.
Just theory, not spoilers.
Daario has LEADER OF THE SONS OF THE HARPY all over his forehead.
On this episode, D&D reminded us that he does not love Dany, just talking (I think for the second time this season) to Jorah about how she is in bed and finally, he takes a few seconds to kneel.
I know that he was shocked since it was the first time he saw her power, but to me it was more like he was realizing about this power he was facing.
A dragonless Dany is also strong and a menace to his goals.
Apollo,
LF could pretend he is there to help Ramsey against the Wildlings/rebels.
Mihnea,
I have to agree with Mihnea on this. What did this person do to you Markus? Almost every single comment you have is bashing Mihnea. I read their comments and yes they have their opinions but you are the one coming off as the troll. Just saying…providing a third persons view on this comments section feud you got going on!
Hodors Bastard,
That was what I was thinking, too. 5000 is the Bolton army alone. Karstarks + Umber would make it (Ramsay’s army) roughly 10000 (Karstarks did not suffer in Red Wedding).
Jon and Sansa are already under a disadvantage in terms of numbers. They will get backing of Vale, Mormonts, some minor Northern houses, and hopefully the Manderlys. Vale has an unused army, but it is not a populated region, and they will take time coming North. I’d guess the numbers are going to be in favor of the Boltons.
Another thing to consider is Qyburn’s little birds. Cersei asked him to spy on the North. Cersei is now against both Boltons and Starks, and maybe she will think that LF is taking the Vale army to capture Winterfell for the crown (which he actually might be – they showed it in the recap). Cersei already have too much to handle, so hopefully Jon and Sansa will not need to deal with a Lannister army, too.
If there is a second Red Wedding, and Jaime is captured, then Sansa would have the Riverlands too – but that seems too much to wish for.
With the seige of Mereen, Dany and Dothraki wreaking havoc in the free cities, and Lannister-Tyrell armies in the South, we are set to see a lot of battles this season. I’m excited.
Am I the only one who wants to see Sansa, Brienne and Podricks reaction to seeing Wun Wun, a giant, for the first time?
ghost of winterfell,
I need Daario to die this season so all my predictions line up lol. He’s ruining everything!111
Stargaryen,
”Feud” I think this is the first time he replies to me and I’m sure it’s the first time I replied to him.
Just ignore them, getting in internet ”fights” is pointless.
I just replied to him, because he used the same insults people threw at me back when I was on westeros.org… If I don’t agree with them, it means I’m a idiot who isn’t smart enough to understand the story or I can’t think logically.
I’m so ‘bleh’ about the fire scene. Really…I’m going to knock over a few braziers and burn down the building is Daenerys big plan? It just seemed so contrived.
And Osha…gods, they made her seem so stupid. I’m going to do my sexy and killy Ramsey…really? She’s a prisoner (why is she allowed to roam the castle, did I miss something?) and it’s her first night there (?)…again, this was HER big plan?
🙁
Dementia,
Osha is a prisoner of no value, she knows Ramsay will kill her (or even worse), so she tries to kill him first. She also wasn’t roaming the castle; she was escorted by a Bolton soldier to Ramsay who was obviously going to kill her asap.
Knight of the Walkers,
Thanks for pointing out she was escorted…I did forget that.
Connor,
I wanna see everyone’s first reaction to him, but particularly Ramsay’s! 😀
RG,
This. We know the seriousness of this game But to have human contact in ‘normal’ situations feels so good. Esp like the woman power!
Dany was great – I also wondered how the dirt could catch fire so fast – what else was in those fire bowls, oil perhaps, so it burns not unlike wildfire? Dunno, but it was pretty cool. And she did it all by herself without any help!
Only downside was Mereen – I really think Tyrion is out of his league here, unless he’s got something up his sleeve (I loved with Missenendie told him that it would be better if she translated. As someone who has some knowledge of another language, I know when its ok to try to use it, and when to rely on a native speaker. He needs to learn that as well)
Again, Emilia confirmed in an interview that it was her. Lol
This episode was intense and brilliant! Stark reunion was excellent, Brienne/Tormund hilarious, Davos/Mel/Brienne satisfying, Osha’s death devastating, Tyrion’s wit is back, and Dany’s badassness too. Season 6 is amazing.
Now, is it me, or Dany seemed to enjoy a bit too much the burning of the khals? Mad King, anyone?
I’m now more than convinced that there will be a clash of team Ice vs team Fire. She’s not going to give up the Iron Throne. And now you can add the fact that the two best players in the Game of Thrones, Varys and Littlefinger, have now chosen a side… The clash is inevitable.
I just hope Tyrion will play the link between Jon and Daenerys. Unless she is the real threat with her dragons, and the Others are coming to defeat them and bring balance to the world? I’ve never been a fan of this theory but after episode 4, I’m questioning.
George,
Lol, it’s what I’ve been saying too. I even posted a link to the interview with her saying that it was her lol.
I’m a little bummed because the connection between The Stranger (from the episode title) and
did not materialize like I was hoping. (Although I did like the little tie-in to the episode title that came by way of the High Sparrow–a stranger–revealing some backstory… then I liked it less when I realized it probably means he isn’t
).
The final scene with Dany was also pretty wack, and I was really trying to like it. but I mean… you’re going to push over a brazier of burning coals, and the most fearsome warlords in the region (who’s sacred building you are burning down btw) are going to cower along the walls waiting to fry? Not a SINGLE ONE is going to try to stop you as you slooowwwwwly/dramatically/smirkingly push over several more braziers? Nobody’s bloodriders or relatives or whatever are going to even ATTEMPT a rescue when their sacred building with all the leadership + a valuable foreign hostage inside starts on fire? Then again I’m not Dothraki, so maybe that’s just the sort of thing that happens sometimes… :-/
Still… it wasn’t Dorne-level wack, and the rest of the episode made up for it. My besties Lord Robin and Littlefinger… some looooooong-awaited payoffs done very well… Tyrion getting back into sleazy politician mode… and a well-timed break from Bran and Arya who still seem to be stuck in parallel karate kid timelines.
8.5 of 10, would watch again… ok, already have watched again… and will watch again again.
Anyone smell a cersei double cross? Entire tyrell army in city and no lannister troops helping? Hmmm. I think lannisters will team with high sparrow to destroy entire tyrell army because cersei doesnt fear the faith since she has robert strong. It all seems fishy she has no reason to move against faith now if she knows she will win her trial by combat. I think jaime wont know about it because ot lacks honor and this will drive them apart.
He didn’t know, according to the scene between Ramsey and Littlefinger last year, where Littlefinger says straight up to Ramsey “I know very little about you.”
di,
I’m very glad to hear you’ve had a good experience. It’s not the one I’ve had, or the one others on this site have had. I’m not trying to bash the site. I simply am voicing my opinion that the environment here has become pretty toxic for critics of the show, even those who still love it overall.
Knight of the Walkers,
Ramsay, who was obviously going to kill her asap.
I was a little surprised Ramsay didn’t try to find out where Bran went. Maybe he doesn’t care or will interrogate Rickon instead? Ramsay gets these gifts (Theon, Sansa, Rickon, Osha, Roose JR) and doesn’t seem to know the next step, he just jumps to killing them. I suppose he got some info from Theon but that seemed more periphery to the actual torture.
Also, thinking about Ramsay I am reminded of Cole in Sixth Sense when he simply stops fighting the torture (when they put him in the floor boards) and it ends. That’s my new approach to him. Bullies thrive off getting you to react.
Even though I don’t care about this potential plot line, I think you Lady Stoneheart desciples still stand a chance she will appear this season.
I keep going back to that pre-season clip of Little Finger in the woods when he turns around with a shocked look on his face. I believe that it is she he sees.
Hang in there..
VegoDread,
Hang in there..
haha well done
Inevitably, there’s an echo of that; playing the scene as Danny watched the Khals burn, Emilia had the same smirk and eye expression that she had when Danny was watching her Dragons burn and eat that Meereen guy last year.
She also acknowledged Ramsey she knew why the bastard had her cleaned up too.
I tried to watch the episode preview a little more carefully. Judging from the overthrown chairs and the torn curtains, I think Littlefinger meets Sansa and Brienne at the brothel in Mole’s Town where Gilly was hiding out. How they end up there is anyone’s guess, but I’d be surprised if any part of Castle Black is that messed up. It’s not just structural damage. Wherever they are hasn’t even been tidied up in months at least. It doesn’t look like anyone lives there. Hard to tell. Castle Black makes a lot more sense story-wise.
Timeline-wise, I don’t think there is any chance he went north with troops. He most likely took a small personal guard, but that’s a month’s journey at least for an army, but a single man can make the journey in a few days, likely not through Moat Cailin but through Eastwatch or maybe White Harbor, since he’s still officially on the Lannister/Frey good side and it should be controlled by them. We obviously know there is an eastern route by sea not controlled by the Boltons since Stannis managed to get an entire army up there.
Jaqhen asks Arya ‘does death only come for the wicked and leave the decent behind’ when handing her the poison vial with her assignment. Seems to me he’s sending her on a mission to kill someone good. It’ll be interesting to see how she deals with that as that’s the one thing she hasn’t had to do yet. Everyone she has killed clearly had it coming.
I tried counting the number of Ironborn ships in the harbor for the kingsmoot. It’s at least 74 visible, presumably many more either not on screen or not in the harbor. I’ve always wondered exactly how many ships they could potentially command. I also wonder how much, if any, foreign support Euron has managed to drum up in all his time adventuring in Essos.
Varys looks super-disturbed when Kinvara tells him ‘knowledge has made you powerful, but there is still so much you don’t know.’ As far as I know, she is supposed to be the high priestess of Volantis, largest city in Essos, so probably even more powerful than Melisandre, which leaves us to wonder how much she has seen in the flames and what she knows about what’s coming.
Bran is standing in front of a large dead tree covered in snow surrounded by what look like grave markers when he sees the army of the dead approaching in his vision. It doesn’t appear to be the weirwood tree he’s living under, so he’s not probably not foreseeing the assault on the cave. Given the base of a massive ice wall behind the tree, I wonder if he’s seeing the assault on the wall. Some of the dead he is seeing look pretty fresh, even still have beards, maybe Hardhome casualties. He’s alone in the vision, and between this and Meera trying to wake him, I think this is one of his independent dreams that he can’t control, not Bloodraven showing him this on purpose.
George,
I agree. We’ve already seen a touch of the “madness”. This is the next step. She definitely enjoyed it.
George,
Lets not forget these are the same Khals who wanted to rape her and give her to their horses. I’m not against this ”Mad Dany” idea, I don’t like it, but i’m not against it, but I don’t think this scene showed it that way.
Last season implied this way harder then what we had now.
Laughed out loud when Tormund was checking out Brienne, i think he said to himself : “That’s my type of woman, har !”
I loved the episode, particularly the Castle Black parts, but needed like one line of dialogue from Dany, maybe to that other widow, saying something like, “Bring me all the oil you can find.” Because knocking over some candles to kill a bunch of khals made zero sense. But, if she’d planned it out and that was indicated, then you go, girl. As it was, I was just like…eh. But, Jansa! Yay. My heart.
No, it doesn’t plausibly work as shown, Yes some kegs of brandy in that Temple would have justified all of it and removed these niggling concerns. It was nearly a 58 minute episode as it stands.
Would I have preferred 90 seconds less of Tyrion and 30 seconds less of Theon so that we could have have had a proper set up for kegs of brandy being in the temple? Yes, I would have preferred it that way.
Given that the visceral response of most viewers appears to be “loved it” as it was shown, I guess we are in the minority. I still loved the scene, mind you — it was just the lame-ass instant POOFNESS to the fire that was wholly unbelievable as far as I was concerned.
Oh well.
I loved Mereen this episode because they are finally showing Tyrion on a shaky ground. This is a character who (on the show) always knows the right thing to do and everyone who disagrees with him is proven to be an idiot. Missandei and Grey Worm are characters who so far have only been drooling on one another and finally they have some value in the story. As former slaves they can have great input on Mereen. Also, I loved Missandei putting Tyrion “white saviour complex” Lannister down a peg after he boasted about his one week experience of slavery. I know too many people like Tyrion who are all high and mighty about stuff they’ve only read about so I took great personal pleasure of that short exchange.
However, my great fear is that the show once again tells us that Tyrion really does know everything about everything (and the “behind the episode” worsens my fears by comparing Tyrion with Lincoln) and Grey Worm will simply replace Quentyn by releasing the dragons out of frustration to Tyrions actions. He gets burned to death before Tyrions walks by, says “you should have done what I told you to” and pets Rhaegal while feeding Viserion peanut butter off his fingers.
aabe,
The Vale’s army is roughly the same size as the North’s.
Apologies for double-posting this in both Recap threads, but I’m all aflame over what I’ve convinced myself is a shadowy cross-over with Parks & Recreation (which some of you will recall had an extended series of Thrones jokes a few years back). Cones of Thrones, anyone? Or perhaps I’ve lost my mind.
http://i.imgur.com/UeVEpWG.jpg
Ramsay already knows where Bran went. He went north of the Wall and was last seen at Craster’s Keep. They lost track of him there and Osha wouldn’t know where Bran now is anymore than Ramsay does.
The problem with the entire scene is that she has nothing Ramsay much wants, other than potentially for pleasure. And for Ramsay, killing seems to give him as much pleasure as sex does.
Tommy-not-Tommen,
The link doesn’t work for me..
I wish they had cast Ian McShane as the High Sparrow and made him more of a darker character, more hypocritical.
Great episode, but I would really liked to have seen Sansa give Ghost a hug!
Mihnea,
Right you are, apologies.
http://imgur.com/UeVEpWG
….though this is hardly universe shattering, I’ll admit.
Spot on, agree 100% on both points.
Dany is not mad. It’s a major plot point in her story and one many refuse to see for some reason. “Dany is mad” is in the same league of comments with “Three heads of the dragon refer to three dragon riders” or “Dany will marry Jon”.
The entire point of A dance with dragons and Dany’s failure in Mereen was that Dany became wary of her actions because Barristan Selmy kept telling her about the Mad King. It has always been Jorah who pushed Dany to accept her violent dragon side, the same side that helps her connect with Drogon. And when Jorah was out of the equation she was left with noble Barristan who thought Slaver’s Bay can be ruled like Westeros. But Essos is a much more barbaric place than “civilized” Westeros and the Slaver’s Bay is the icing of the cake with magic, slavers, dothrakis etc. In this part of the world, only strength matters. (I feel like the character of Barristan refers to many idealistic, western politicians and people who think the entire world is like a city in Europe). And Dany turned her back on violence and her source of strength out of fear of being like the Mad King. Thus, she lost all control. But alas, GRRM drops her among the Dothraki to remind her of the values that run this part of the world.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
We already have enough ”dark” characters, and god knows we have enough hypocrits.
Seeing a truly just guy, who believes his mission is holy, is truly refreshing, in my opinion.
And I love Pryce as the HS.
He’s got something up his sleeve. Those whores Tyrion and Varys sent the Wise Masters at the end were not after dinner mints. The Wise Masters underestimate slaves. Tyrion reminds us all.
Missandei and Grey Worm’s palpable anger was necessary to sell the Wise Masters on the sincerity of Tyrion’s proposal.
I think the daggers are now in place.
As has been said before Osha was escorted to Ramsay’s chamber. And Osha will have known that she has absolutely no value as a hostage so she was likely to end up at best being “merely” violated. She tried to take the initiative away from Ramsay but failed. At least she tried, and it seems to be entirely logical,
Amazing episode. Jon and Sansa scenes got me choked up.
Sorry if this has already been posted somewhere above, but has anyone else seen this image of the COTF that HBO posted from the next episode?
SPOILERS
http://imgur.com/a/vhwl1
Steel_Wind,
I thought Theon only told Ramsay that Jon may be sheltering Bran at CB. The Craster stuff beyond the wall was Locke on his own (who died with the knowledge).
Wasn’t Osha around for all the TER talk and how he was north of the wall? It doesn’t matter as Ramsay doesn’t seem concerned with Bran’s location.
MakeThemBurn,
I actually fully agree with you here.
Does Ramsay reeally know though? I mean, for sure. Locke infiltrated the NW in an attempt to find the boys and went with them to Craster’s with no idea Bran was there. He had his head “hodored” though so he wasn’t able to relay that information.
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
My issue is more how they just threw Osha away like that in some lame, predictable scene.
Tycho Nestoris,
You mean when Ramsey had Theon tell that to Roose?
He clearly already knew at that point in time. Because he pressed Theon to tell Roose the truth about Bran/Rickon.
What did you expect then? Let’s have your version…
George,
Plus I just realized they have something in common – Bears! (sorry, sick joke, I’ll show myself out)
MakeThemBurn,
Good point. I need to rewatch the episode, perhaps I’ll see it another way. Plus, we’ve never really seen Tyrion in a sharp learning curve, and considering he’s always been curious, well, maybe he can still learn a few things.
LOL 😀 😀 😀
dragonbringer,
Why wouldn’t he? At this rate he’ll make it to Westeros and I didn’t expect him to.
ghost of winterfell,
He seems as a tragic hero to me and his fate is not rulling or having kids. Nope. In fact with Kit talking about having die again, he doesn’t want to come back to life again. Afraid of death, in the end he might just do it and die for real.
Flayed Potatoes,
She doesn’t have to marry anyone and in fact being single ruler seems most likely ending for me. If she makes it. She can adopt children, if she wants and continue her line.
Mihnea,
I mean specifically Bran passing the wall. Only Locke knew that (when he overheard Sam and Jon). Yes, Ramsay knew Bran was alive and likely at CB but he doesn’t know Bran kept going north like Osha and Rickon know.
Absolutely shitty ending. WTH!?!?! I can’t believe it will go like this in the books. What is this nonsense????
About Dany I agree 101 %…I found it underwhelming…I love her, but all these epic awesome scenes theyre making for her, don’t match the fact that she’s a teenager who can’t really fight her own battles. She’s never held a sword! ………..BUT still I’m ignoring that problem cos it does have a proper place in the overall story she is getting.
About Osha, it’s true…but with the books apparently having him kill about 5 of Mance’s brides, and dressing his prison cell with their skins….if just Osha and Shaggydog are the show equivalent then I’m glad cos that’ll mean there’s not too much of his horrors left to endure (which besides horrifying would be annoyingly repetetive) before facing Azor Ahai,… I mean, Jon.
And that will mean, Ramsay’s arc can only have any proper indulging story now, if we see him steadily faltering now until he gets a crusher blow in the big battle….a bit like how Stannis got news of one horror after another in the day before his Battle for Winterfell…except with Ramsay they need to spread it out over next few episodes…
…anything else, I think, will be ridiculous!
You can’t be as lucky and evil as he is at the same time, without money and any sort of love or admiration from anyone!
Roose’s warning of being “Taken out back and slaughtered for pig feed” has to mean something more!!!
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
It started with their decision to have the Umber’s betray the Stark’s, I wouldn’t have done that.
Hahahaha!!! 😀
LatrineDiggerBrian,
The Boltons and the Karstarks wouldn’t stand a chance on their own, and the battle would be underwhelming.
That’s actually a “Winds of Winter” spoiler, FYI. It was one of the preview chapters that GRRM released.
Geralt of Rivia,
That guarantees a war of succession. Not to mention her family line would die out.
Flayed Potatoes,
You are thinking way to far ahead. These are all tehnicalities
Dany might do what Elizebeth I did, she brought peace and stability but she didn’t produce a heir and yet there was no fighting after her death.
I’m very confident the Targaryan line will end with Dany.
WOW!!!
They say that’s from a sneak peek clip on hbogo. Has anyone seen it???
Clabog,
Thats an amazing photo! But where are they? there is no snow
Tycho Nestoris,
Ramsay thought Bran and Rickon would be together at CB. Now that he has Rickon he might wonder why Bran is not with him.
Ramsay doesn’t seem concerned about Bran’s location, why Bran and Rickon separated or how long Rickon has been with the Umbers. I’ll take that as good news for Team Stark.
Young Dragon,
OK then replace them with the Manderly’s.
Could it be a Bran-o-Vision flashblack? It would be interesting if we saw them caching obsidian daggers…
LatrineDiggerBrian,
The book outrage would have been even bigger had they done that!
Ser, you just stole the internet today. *bows*
Probably another Bran flashback.
Why isn’t anyone talking about this??
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
Maybe a Long Night vision? Are they at The Fist of The First Men??
That’s what I wondered. It would be a neat way to show how the obsidian daggers came to be there for the Night’s Watch to find in the present.
Did anyone else notice/think that Sansa may have been subtly manipulating Jon with regard to his support – and by extension, the support of 2000 wildlings – in her aspiration to retake Winterfell? In the scene by the fireplace, she interjects, “and where will YOU go,” likely knowing that Jon would want to protect her and not let her out of his sight for the foreseeable future. It seemed like she was playing “dumb” to make Jon the one that volunteers his protection rather than her being the one to initially ask for it . . .
No better teachers in subtle manipulation than Cersie and LF.
I wouldn’t mind watching Tormund and Edd play beer pong.
#stillbetterthanDorne
Joffrey’s Cunt,
I know eh? I love their look. Must be a past vision. Cant wait to learn more about them!
This is the first time ever on the show where I feel the fate of one particular character is completely inevitable (Ramsey). Is there anyway he doesn’t die by the end of this season or that Jon doesn’t kill him? Is there anyway that Jon and Sansa don’t take back Winterfell? Kind of my problems with this season in a nutshell. This show has always kept me guessing and that’s what I’ve loved about it. It would’ve been so much better if they just had Roose kill Ramsey right after he announced the baby was born. How awesome would’ve that been?
Some of you guys just want to feel good, you don’t care what happens. You want Roose, Walder, and other baddies to get their comeuppance, don’t care how it happens. You want the Stark’s to do some winning don’t care how it happens. I want to be blown away by the story telling, and I don’t care how it happens. Whether it be the good guys win or the bad guys win or somewhere in between.
Geralt of Rivia,
Nooo.. I don’t mind if he does not end up ruling or having kids, I don’t want him to die that’s all 🙂
I wish someone would make a clip of Tormund and Brienne’s scenes with looney tunes sound effects. I can just see him going “AWOOOOOGA!!!” when his eyes get big upon first spotting her.
That children of the forest picture is the thumbnail for the next episode preview on HBO Now, but that scene is not actually in the preview. I noticed that as soon as the episode ended last night. Given no snow, it has to be a flashback, but probably when the children still lived south of the wall. I doubt there was ever a time when the Fist of the First Men was not covered in snow. It’s just downstream from the land of always winter and at the base of a mountain range.
I managed to read all the replies to Sue’s wonderful review. Took 1.5 hours, but I got through it. Not much to say or add that doesn’t agree with many or disagree with many and I am in no mood for a disagreement. That said, burn me like BBQ Khal burgers, but I do not get this Jonsa/Jansa thing. Are people “shipping” them, or is it just “trending” to use these? Because no matter what you think of Jon’s real lineage, he is still 1/2 Stark at the least, which makes Sansa and Jon or Arya and Jon first cousins. So eww on the shipping of them. I love the chemistry already for the duo and I do hope they are formidable as a family, fighting the common enemy together to take back Winterfell.
As to Daenerys and the fire. I also see there was some sort of liquid in the vats of fire, not wild fire, but something similar to kerosene, something for keeping things lit for a long time. Oil is in the desert countries here…maybe there is a lake of oil that the Dothraki mine, who knows. Bigger question…WHO CARES. It was an awesome scene. Not rushed a bit, she had to do something and fast, you don’t keep a Khal waiting, he takes what he wants, when he wants it and Daenerys knew that. Bravo for the strong women of this episode.
Tormund and Brienne…now THERE is something to “ship”. I think SHE would think herself a cut above a Wildling though, she has had her love interests in a “supposed King of the North” and brother to the Queen. And by the by… Am I the only one who is sick of the words ship and hype. They aren’t bad words, they are just so over-used that they have no real meaning now.
I have to go do something fun, like read Laura’s Stones site.
Sean C.,
I agree they raided the entire west coast and I agree that all the Ironborn have been driven out, that is what we were told. However, we don’t know that he was on board an Ironborn ship to get to Pyke. Since we have been told that all the Ironborn have been driven from the North then it is safe to say that it has to be a ship for something else. Of course the first thing that comes to mind is a Merchant ship. I am just assuming that there are some people in this world that ship things to different kingdoms to make money or get goods that don’t have anything to do with the war. I don’t look at it like “how convenient that Theon Greyjoy found a ship that would take him to Pyke”. I look at it like how and why and that is just my deductive reasoning = not everyone is affected by the war even in the north, life goes on, business goes on and he simply got aboard a ship that was A either swinging by there or B sending goods there to sell or trade. I truly don’t find that a stretch at all.
Tycho Nestoris,
Who said you deserved an explanation? My point to my comment was it has been 54 episodes and we have seen this with Baelish over and over again without an explanation throughout the entire time. I don’t know how he is the one character who can travel fast in the show – my response was simply to be amusing. I doubt we will ever get an explanation, maybe he never sleeps, he uses his ship very efficiently, he is rich, maybe always getting new horses, new men. I don’t know, it’s not like he is going from Sunspear to Castle Black. The Vale is pretty close – this leads me to something interesting – he could take a ship to White Harbor and treat with Manderly (interesting thought) and then go by horse from there. North is big I know, it doesn’t make sense. But I love seeing Baelish with many different characters.
Agree with this, wasn’t it “oh so convenient” that Arya found a ship to take her to Braavos at exactly the right time when she turned up at Saltpans? Why not a merchant ship bound for Lys or Myr or Pentos etc etc. Did we need a half page narrative in ASoS explaining the salt trade that Braavos depends on? Er, no.
Sometime things just happen in fiction and there’s no need to weigh down a book or show with expository dialogue to explain how transport just happened to be in the right place at the right time to progress the story where it needs to go.
Connor,
Yeah, I noticed people stating that. That is cool. Thanks!
Mihnea,
I know…do you think she will have much more control on Drogon in the books to do it. Like on his back guiding him, or will it be like the fighting pits where he comes down burning everyone all out of control like?
Hide yo children, hide yo husbands, hide yo wives – Drogon be burnin everybody!
Mihnea,
I wish you could like some people’s messages on this sometimes ha ha
Stargaryen,
RE explanations
Well I don’t deserve one, I just would like one. I was being snarky. I apologize.
he could take a ship to White Harbor and treat with Manderly (interesting thought) and then go by horse from there. North is big I know, it doesn’t make sense. But I love seeing Baelish with many different characters.
This. I just want something other than LF magically appearing at CB (or anywhere north of MC). Even if he gets to CB (or wherever that scene with Brienne/Sansa is) and just says I passed X location/house/person getting here. Otherwise I am going to need a farcaster portal or mobius chair. Honestly, at this point I would enjoy some futuristic tech to explain his travels.
Old Nan knew her shit. She was probably some ninja warrior in her day. Know one knew more at the beginning than Old Nan, except possibly Bloodraven. #icespidersarecoming
Lisa0527,
That’s the Book the High Sparrow was reciting to Marg in the prison cell.
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
I think the Others and the COTF are connected. I wouldn’t say the Others were once full blooded COTF themselves, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they were at least distantly related. Even the new COTF look similar to the White Walkers, particularly the eyes and the texture of their skin. I think we will start to learn who the Others are, what their purpose is, and how the COTF fought them.
I am enjoying this season. But my goodness are they rushing. Now next week Sansa and Littlefinger reunite somewhere an episode after 1 is at The Wall and the other is at The Vale. Dany happens to stumble upon Daario and Jorah and then in the same episode burns down the temple. These are good scenes. But they are not even sprinting they are rocket launching to the end of this story.
Funny? Perhaps. But we are talking about a real person. We are talking about assassination. Some could take that as a death threat.
After this episode, I have some new ideas about the upcoming episode (#7?) called “The Broken Man.” It’s most obviously referring to Septon Meribald’s speech and hence The Hound will be involved. But now I also wonder if Jon will be revealed as a broken man post-resurrection. Or, more likely, Loras is a broken man and will meet his fate.
This! There is a long tradition of sacrificing the old king/ruler when the new ruler is being anointed and the blood of the king replenishing the land. So the blood of 15 kings? More better.
There was a moment where Dany could have run away in the night, but she didn’t. She could have sacrificed the woman, who had already been abused and did nothing but help her, and she didn’t. Dany chose to protect the innocent woman, trust her, trust in her own ability to make it through the fire, and led the Dothraki.
People here make it sound easy – oh, she just used her magical ability to withstand fire, ho-hum. She did WAY more than that — she had to give up multiple chances to take the easy way out – she could have allowed Daario and Jorah to save her, she could have become a Dosh Kaleen (that was the way the khals were headed). She also could have probably become khaleesi to one of the khals – there was always enough interest in her and some women would have taken the opportunity to have a man as a protector in a men-centric world. Dany had only used blood magic in one very special situation. How many people would be absolutely confident in their ability to do the same again? Would you be willing to bet your future and your life on it?
The things a hero does or a leader does always look simple, easy and obvious from the outside and after the fact, but to the human being INSIDE the situation, filled with uncertainty and doubt and the ability to fail, success is never a sure thing.
Joffrey’s Cunt,
I’ve seen the photo, but never seen an actual clip that shows that scene. In a thread yesterday, we starting discussing how the rocks in the background look like the rocks near the NK and his army in the preview for the next episode.
Is there any connection between the White Walkers and the Children of the Forest? Do they use the same magic at all?
You know … I just realized …
This episode had a call back to both the very first scene of Season 1 (the Wall gates opening for the three doomed rangers / the Wall gates opening for Pod / Sansa / Brienne) and the final scene of Season 1 (naked Dany standing in middle of flames, with the Dothrak kneeling around her).
I wonder if that was deliberate or just a coincidence.
Probably has replaced Areo Hotah as the new household guard captain of House Martell.
Here are some interesting notes that has not been stated or I just haven’t noticed it, if so, my bad.
Dany – born again? in the Dothraki eyes she has been, they have never seen her do that before. In their eyes she is Azor Ahai (even tho they don’t know what that is). Prophecy is going to start getting fickle when one Red Priestess say Dany is the TPTWP and when Mel says Jon is TPTWP.
Brienne/Davos/Mel: Speculation only – all three of these characters will be split up very soon. Brienne and Pod will be sent to find Arya by Sansa. Jon will send Mel away because he doesn’t want to be resurrected again if he should die again – my guess is she will go to Winterfell or search for Thoros. Davos The Accepted will be Jon and Sansa’s new council and travel with Starks. Davos Seaworth Attorny At Laws! Yeah, I know the Davos speculation and Brienne speculation is easy.
Tormienne: Seriously no one is talking about the amazing scene that would never happen? Jamie and Tormund getting in a “pissing” match for brienne’s attention! Brienne the beauty has risen!
Meereen: Tyrion needs to explain to Miss and GW that if he chooses to fight Astapor, Yunkai, and Volantis that he will lose and lose their men that their queen needs to take back Westeros. I think they would understand a little bit better that way – unfortunately I think GW is right. I think Tyrion thinks he is outsmarting them a bit but something bad will happen.
Sansa: Damn she is changing – she talked like a ruling lady for almost the first time of the entire series. Kit Harington was stealing scenes even as a dead body and then Sophie Turner shows up and just steals that thunder from him. Fantastic!
High Sparrow: Anyone else feel like Jonathan Pryce was staring at he camera the whole time talking about how indulgence and perversion is bad and he saw the light, so to speak. Almost like D and D were telling us to be better humans in their own Game of Thrones way? Man he is manipulating them pretty good. He wasn’t breaking Margery so they beat Loras to break him and of course finally send Marg in once he is “broken”. Smooth Mr. Sparrow Smooth.
Margery: Speaking of Marg. girl is a lot tougher than I thought! Cersei barely made it a couple episodes but here Marg is in there still playing the game, vying for her time. Almost Marg’s best scene of the entire series.
Littlefinger: “time to join the fray” did he really say Fray? Frey? Frey? Man, what if Baelish is the guy who gets the revenge for House Tully and Stark in the riverlands? He was sent to Riverrun as a child. I do believe he did care some for Riverrun and Tully’s. I know I know he is a selfish prick playing the game. But still – interesting thought. Now he could travel to White Harbour on his way to Castle Black, also an easy way for him to get in the north. Baelish treating with Manderly?
Theon/Yara: I have always liked the actors for these two. yara looked so much in control like her father and Alfie Allen has always been fantastic! Kind of hope they lose the Kingsmoot and get sent away to Dany!
Last question – The beginning of the season the speculation has been on about
This was the first episode in a long time that I actually want to watch again.
What scares me though is the Starks mostly all coming back to Winterfell right now. I’ve always thought that GRRM bringing ruin to the Starks and scattering the survivors was his way of actually saving them. When the Wall fails Winterfell is the first major speed bump to the White Walker invasion and not a very good place to be. GRRM’s got Sansa in the Vale, Rickon on an island, Bran north of everything going on, and Arya across the narrow sea. Instead we’ve got 3 out of 4 coming together right in the middle of the danger zone.
So does this mean the White Walkers are going to be held and defeated at Winterfell? Or after just getting Winterfell back the Starks are going to have to give it up again? I don’t like either of those options.
I can’t speak for others but I agree that the Dany scene was strange. I understand the point of it though and why the character would do what she did. It’s not that. I agree with the recap that suggests it felt rushed. It did. 20 minutes prior in this episode Dany is going on a pee break where she randomly runs into Daario and Jorah (what an amazing coincidence by the way). 20 minutes later is tipping over some fire and burning the temple to the ground. I also find it a bit odd how the whole place was able to burn down in about 30 seconds….
Look, the immune to fire thing is a big change. I think it significantly lessens the magical impact of the dragon birth in 110, but it is what it is. I’m not going to cry over that. It’s the impact of this scene though. It’s lacking. The scene ended and I was not all pumped up excited about it, instead I was…okay, so, that happened.
Well, maybe not that many, but more than 5000. However, does anyone think Ramsey will be able to use his army nearly as effectively as Roose did? Ramsey doesn’t seem like military tactics would be his strong point. Don’t get me wrong, he is cunning, but a military leader?
Also, am I the only one still posting on this thread? I’m talking to myself, aren’t I?
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Are you a book reader? If so, I would think you knew the outcome of most of the events during the first 5 seasons. I do see what you are saying, but I don’t have a particular problem with it. I don’t like Ramsay. I think he has no part to play in the story moving forward. And truly, if you have read the books, did you expect George to keep the Starks down forever? The original title of the 6th book was ‘A Time For Wolves’. So he clearly has a Stark resurgence planned, and in order for that to happen, the Boltons will have to be defeated.
Obviously the books, if they are ever completed, will go into more detail and have more twists in store. I think a big concern for some people who aren’t enjoying this season is that this is turning into a stereotypical fantasy series and the ‘good guys’ are now starting to get the upper hand. I welcome that, but I do hope for more conflict, perhaps between characters we like and consider ‘good’. I hope the Others are more than simply the big bad. I hope all of our favorite characters don’t simply unite and defeat them. I want there to be resistance to the dragons and army of former slave soldiers and screaming Dothraki invading Westeros. My worst fear is that Dany and company don’t arrive until the last minute, only to swoop in and save the realm from the big bad Others. I want her to fight for the throne first. I want there to still be a Game Of Thrones and not simply a great war of living vs the WW and their army of undead.
Tycho Nestoris,
It is hard to express sarcasm and snarkiness in these comments. Most people I think are intending to be that way but tone gets mistaken. Yeah, I would like an explanation as well. Maybe we will get one. he seriously can’t ride up there with thousands of soldiers and go unnoticed, right?
Stargaryen,
Of course not.
That’s why he got Cersei’s permission to invade the North last season.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Funny thing. That is exactly how I think the story will go both books and show.
That photo of the Children is actually on the HBO Go app – if you go to the Book of the Stranger episode page on the app, it’s shown as the placeholder image for the preview for next week, even though it doesn’t appear in the preview itself. I noticed this last night when I went into the app to play the “Inside” clips at the end of the episode (which aren’t shown on TV obviously).
I don’t have every bit of lore memorized, but isn’t it true that the WW are not precisely what we think they are? I have been wondering if the ash and volcano problems which doomed Valyria might be related to the (fire) magic connected to dragons and the WW are part of the ice magic that rises at the same time to keep balance in the world. If so, neither are inherently good or evil – they are forces of nature which have some pretty horrific effects on the human beings at ground zero.
Flayed Potatoes,
It would be incredible sort of predictable or I don’t know which word to use if Jon was the one to get her pregnant. Like that only Targaryen can get her pregnant or something like this. In this maybe Tyrion could too? She can adopt a child, raise him and making it very clear. She would take care of it.
Stargaryen,
I have been trying to figure this out, too…
This is not only true, but it’s absolutely true in the context of the story on television too. The Stark family was our foundation for season one; the story has followed them ever since. For us to get to the conclusion of the story without some of what has transpired for the Starks not being avenged and cleaned up would be a massive failure. Now, you can’t ever predict what Martin will write, but the GoT producers know this fact… we WILL see solace for the Stark children, at least most of them.
You only need look at the huge fanfare surrounding Jon & Sansa’s reunion last night as proof. Here are two characters who actually never had a scene together before last night, whose storylines diverged in the show’s PILOT… but the reunion was unbelievably moving. Weiss & Benioff know this. It’s something we awaited for six years, but even between two characters that really didn’t have much to do with each other… it was a Stark reunion.
As much as the show is about Dany and Tyrion, its first obligation is also to tell the story of the Stark family: its destruction, dark times, and revival. I predict reunions with Arya and Bran at some point in the future. Hopefully. 🙂
There most certainly is a connection! We’re about to find out.
Arya wasn’t initially looking to sail to Braavos though. She approached the captain asking to “go north, to The Wall.” Her intention was to get to Jon. It wasn’t until the captain told her they were going to Braavos that she remembered Jaqen and the coin.
Stargaryen,
Right?? The scene does look like LF is solo so maybe he sent the Vale army one way (through MC to WF on the false pretense of his alliance with Roose) and he went a different route (I like your White Harbor idea)?
What are we to assume if LF shows up in CB without an establishing shot though? In that case it’s only fair speculate (wildly) how he got there and found Sansa (without clueing anyone else in).
Bib: gotta give Mihnea credit for the alliance false pretense to get the Vale soldiers into the North, that was not my idea.
Cameryn,
I haven’t read this one before. I like it.
Although not adressed to me, I’m still taking the priviledge of giving my two cents 😉
I think the entire point of her Mereen arc was that she had to accept her violent side in order to connect with her dragons and succeed. Dragons are violent animals and the symbolism is very strong when she locks the dragons in the dungeons. The point is made again when Drogon returns to her in the pits when she lets her rage shine through. The dragons view her as a peer. As long as she behaves like a dragon, they will consider her as one of their own. In this sense the chemistry between Dany and her dragons and the chemistry the Starks have with their direwolves is completely different. The direwolves are completely loyal and submissive to their masters and even their personality reflects their owner. But dragons demand their riders to submit and connect with them.
The different faces of power is one of the reasons I’m fond of the show and the books. Arya is the source of her own power by becoming a warrior while Sansa uses her feminine charm and her family name to manipulate people around her. With Dany, the source of power resides outside of her and she is forced submit to an extent to control that power. First it was Khal Drogo and all her power came from the fact she was his wife. After that it was the dragons. One thing she has learned in Essos is that no one cares about her name and titles and her gender will always make people resist her. She’s also no fighter. Drogon is her power source. She just has to learn how to control him, just like Khal Drogo.
That was a solid episode – all the episodes this season have been.
I think the interesting thing about the show is that we really are in new territory. Things may have the same end game in the books but the jounrey is certainly different.
The Wall: Aww all the feels during the Sansa/Jon scene! I appreciate that they mentioned the siblings weren’t close before, without dwelling on it. Pleasantly surprised that Sansa has become quite assertive but Jon is surely gonna have to do some planning/leading as opposed to just fighting to fulfil his prophecy as the Prince that Was Promised. At least the death is showing to have changed him other than a new haircut otherwise there wasn’t much point in it. Kinda feel like Mel’s days are numbered – it sorta just feels like she’s there for the sake of it but then I am not the biggest fan of the whole R’hollor side to the story (and great it’s in my favourite location next week… :/ ) Oooh and Brienne/Tormund! Jaime is still a bit whipped so Brienne should have some of Tormund for the time being.
Meereen: Much better and with a point to it than previous weeks. Really liked the principles of Grey Worm and Missendei shining through and them actually been showing to have personalities. I assume Tyrion is trying to buy time rather than intending to fulfill his plan. Surprised that he is next week’s ep as well. Is he gonna be in every ep again despite not having the most major plot arc.
KL: The High Sparrow’s speech kinda dragged on a bit. Is he gonna give every character in KL one?! That been said – finally something is gonna happen (which means it won’t be in next week’s ep!) Nice to see Natalie Dormer getting to act a big scene – she was barely in the tail end of Season 5 and Finn Jones was excellent. Poor Loras 🙁 Always love when Cersei is snarky – the looks she was throwing Pycelle – he is doomed! Jaime – er….. he needs to speak to Lancel. It surprises me that Nicolaj Coster-Waldau is still billed 2nd in the show. Since he got back to KL he has served mostly for someone for Cersei to bounce off and got lumbered with Dorne last year.
II: I have really enjoyed this this season. Gemma and Alfie were both excellent and they kept the interaction very in character (for their show characters). Looking forward to seeing Euron again.
Winterfell: Can Ramsay get an episode off since everyone else is? Sad for Osha but was always gonna happen so she couldn’t save Rickon. And at least she didn’t have to sleep with him first.
LF: The only scene I wasn’t keen on. LF’s plotline is just a complete shambles. He is here there and everywhere just to suit the plot. The sooner he dies the better I reckon (hello Sansa)
Vaes Dothrak: The conclusion seemed slightly rushed but glad that Dany held her own and was able to save herself from those pigs. Although is she gonna get the Dothraki to invade cities without ransacking and raping innocent women? Interesting to see where it goes. Never understand why Dany gets so much hate here (are fans not allowed to like both Jon/Dany and Sansa/Arya). It’s always them fandoms!
The episode was so bloody dark! I was watching it with the sun shining in the window and had to sit with a pillow fortress around my laptop to see anything! Also are the frequent uses of the word “shit” a tad modern sounding? It threw me when Cersei said it last week then Daario did again tonight. And Sansa’s “idiot” as well? Meh just a minor thing!
Cleganebowl training
Mihnea,
I can’t tell if this is a joke? You are constantly negative about the books and then complain about how people insult you, whilst you insult the book purists with nothing to back up your points either!
It’s a shame after I migrated from a book purist site because of the negativity towards the show… The writers here are fantastic but I now dread coming to the comment section.
*sigh* are there any sites which have a mutual appreciation of the show and the books ?
El-Bobbie,
1. Khal Drogo’s funeral.
2. Drogon burns the slaver and wins her the Unsullied.
3. Khals.
Couldn’t these 3 be the fires? Or the second one doesn’t count because she didn’t “burn” herself?
*GET HYPE !!* wins that particular competition hands-down.
Sue the Fury,
You know me, Sue! Indeed, I was “sobbing like an idiot” when Jon and Sansa hugged and then remembered what Winterfell had been like before. It was the first time when we saw them sharing thoughts and feelings, but it was more than getting to know each other, because they were family and they knew it.
Ioana,
But which one was for life? The Drogo pyre has to be either for life or love. In which case, neither of the others would fit those two designations. Right now, I would say it is:
Once for life = Drogo’s funeral pyre/birth of her dragons
Once for death = the death of the Khals
Once for love = ???
Well, I’ve just watched the episode and it is time for my (brief) review:
Castle Black: I was left speechless…. If Theon and Sansa hug nearly brought tears to my eyes, I don’t know what to say for Jon/Sansa reunion… I remember back then in 2011, when I first read AFFC and there is a chapter, where Sansa thinks about wanting to meet Jon again. I was all like “That will definitely never happen”. But now it really happened! I really like Jon’s new attitude. He is not a “typical hero” anymore, or at least he doesn’t want to be. And the famous pink letter (which is not actually pink), whose omission really pissed off a certain GoT administrator, finally arrived.
Vaes Dohtrak: First of all, I’m NOT a Daenerys fan and certainly not a fan of “badass” Daenerys (season 3) but I can say, that I was really satisfied with her storyline. There was no “Drogon ex machina” and no “Stallion who mounts the world”. Daenerys managed to come up with her own plan with some help of ser Jorah and Daario, which didn’t involve dragons. My only issue with this scene is the death of khal Moro. I really liked this character and even in this scene, there was a contrast between him (A traditionalist) and other khals (more nasty ones): And another thing about nudity, it was just like Emilia said last year: She is willing to do a nude scene if it advances the storyline. So the “no nudity” clause has again proven false.
Meereen: While Tyrion’s scenes were my least favorite in previous three episodes, I really liked them this time. It was nice to see old faces (Razdal, Yezzan). I’m still not sure in what direction will this go, but I think those Ghiscari cities are beyond saving. And Missandei was really pissed off in the scene with the noblemen.
Winterfell: R.I.P Osha. Of course, it was expected. I don’t know what other role could she have played.
Pyke: It was nice to see the contrast between Theon’s arrival in season 2 and this one. And I like that Yara’s character was more fleshed out.
Runestone: Robin got a lot taller, but still immature as hell. Lord Royce continues to hate LF and LF responds with threats as usual. I hope we see more of Lord Royce in future episodes.
King’s Landing: It is still Quiet before the Storm but this time, Kevan and Olenna were actually able to cooperate with Cersei and Jaime. And we have seen another side of Loras, a broken one. He is not that strong after all.
I really have to consider, how to rank this episode but my initial thoughts are, that I liked it more than “Home” (which is among my low 10-rated ones – rank 13) so a 10 rating is definitely the case, possibly even reaching top 10.
EDIT: I’ve put it on rank 9, ahead of The Laws of Gods and Men (rank 10) and behind And Now His Watch Is Ended (rank 8).
It’s a platonic thing, like Morphie or whatever we call Maisie and Sophie. We were hoping for their love for each other, we love their love for each other, we love seeing them together, and want to see more of it. I’m not into the cutesy names, but I’m thrilled to see them together.
Cousins married all the time before modern day, and even now it is still legal to marry one’s first cousin in certain states of the US. I wouldn’t recommend it. I told my girls that folks couldn’t marry their cousins because then they’d have two-headed babies. That image seemed to really stick with them because I heard them repeat that to others. Often.
SOMEONE KILL RAMSAY PLEASE, MY PATIENCE IS RUNNING OUT
“If you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying atention.”
Well that’s not really the point. There could have been a only one ship bound for e.g Pentos or – God forbid – King’s Landing with no compliant Braavosi captain but the story needed her to go to Braavos so that’s where the ship was going. It doesn’t serve GRRMs story to have her waiting around for ever for the right ship to Eastwatch or Braavos, so we accept the coincidence, just as we can accept the coincidence of a ship to take Theon to Pyke.
If we accept the happy coincidences in the book then we can accept the coincidences in the show. Just like Catelyn and Tyrion running into each other at the Inn of the Crossroads.
After this episode, i’m getting conserned that “The broken man” is [ spoiler ]Loras and not the hound, and that it will be Loras who fights the Mountain rather than Cleganebowl. I hope it’s not the case, but it could be.[ / spoiler]
Andrea,
I think they are trying to make him as unforgivable as possible, so that we can have that sweet, sweet death at the end of the season.
Andrea,
5 more episodes! It’s the final countdown!
Tyrion Pimpslap,
No not a book reader and I was very very good about not looking up what happened in the first 5 seasons, so all the big events were surprises to me. I agree that eventually the Starks would make a come back and that’s just a logical progression of the story, but its the nuances of how it’s been done this season that has bothered me.
And I agree with all you say in your second paragraph.
I disagree. The show has run out of good baddies. In Mereen, the Harpy’s are lame. In Kings Landing, obviously you know I’m not a big fan of the Sparrow’s, think they’re dullards. I’m sick of Ramsey, never really liked the way Iwan Rheon played him. I’m hoping Euron can pick up some of the slack, but I’m starting to think he’s just going to be a foil in Theon / Yara’s story who will eventually be killed by them.
I think it would’ve been better just to not bring Osha back to the show, then to have her go out like that. They should’ve just had Smalljon mention that Rickon was with a wildling who they hung for whatever reason.
Actually there are 6 left don’t rush it. ?
JonFookinSnow,
Ahahahahaaaa because all other situations are realistic on this show! Ice zombies, dragons and whatever.
Rhaenys Stark,
More like Carrie-esque to me.
Andrea,
Death seems like too kind a gift. I wish the Tickler was still around or Rorge and Biter. Maybe they could chain Ramsay to a wall and have the HS lecture him to death. I think we’ll have to settle for mad dogs/wolves.
That’s it, I’m shipping Jon and Sansa. Don’t blame me. Sophie and Kit have an amazing chemistry.
I really fear Jon and Sansa won’t know about R+L=J till the end of the season.
How do you mean? The word is very old with roots in Old English and it was used in the 16th century for the two modern meanings of excrement or a contemptible person.
They will still be cousins though. Their heir could be another Joffrey.
Eck,
Some modern sounding phrases occasionally do sneak into the scripts. Obviously Tyrion has used “punch me in the face” a couple of times. In a third season episode Tyrion referred to his package as his “junk”. “shit” and “idiot” depending on how they’re used can sound modern and I agree with you that the context she used “idiot” in the episode stuck out to me a little too.
deekan,
I’ll second that. I believe this is the first time ever in my Monday afternoon rewatches that I’ve fast forwarded through any scenes but I did that for KL and Meereen. And Dany too actually. Haha.
*Emphasis mine
That’s my fear, too. I was afraid when Jon came back that he’ll be like, “Let’s kick some white walker butts!” I was relieved when he came back jaded, doubtful and tired of all the fighting, generally. Although that might change in the upcoming episodes.
As for Dany’s arc. I’m afraid that’s exactly where it’s going: Dany coming in with her dragons and the Dothraki horde to save the day. I don’t really see any real opposition that the writers have put in her way at this point. Not after that last scene.
Nothing modern day about it. My parents are first cousins and I assure you, I don’t have two heads lol.
First cousins marrying has never been illegal or frowned upon in the UK. The USA is the only country in the western world with a problem it seems. In some parts of the world it is still extremely common.
Shadow Shifter,
The Dothraki are still afraid of salt water, right? That didn’t change.
Crannogman Matt,
I have a hard time finding fandom things I can digest easily too. It seems people are either fawning or overly critical and its just not fun. I want to see/hear what people think but usually end up annoyed. Maybe I should just take a Xanax. Haha.
The Dothraki are not only afraid of salt water, but she’ll need the Ironborn and Volantis fleets both pretty much completely intact to have any shot at transporting that many people, let alone all those horses, to Westeros. If Euron has Dragonbinder and it actually works, that gives her another major issue as someone else has the means to control her dragons.
ygritte,
I’m sorry you are disappointed by Jon, I thought you would be ecstatic about him being resurrected. I like the way he is now, just a man who has suffered a major trauma and who questions his choices and believes. I’m happy that he is still capable of love and trust.
Fantastic episode but can I ask what could be a particularly stupid question: why is Melisandre so convinced that Jon is the prince that was promised when this never occurred to her upon meeting Beric Donadarion?
I mean he has been resurrected multiple times by Rhollor but is it just because she’s the one who did it rather than Thoros that it must be Jon??
Daeryssa,
I think it has to do with the vision she had of Jon fighting at WF.
That said, Mel seems more changed from the rez than Jon. She’s like not enthusiastic at all. She said like nothing the entire episode and just seems depressed. Maybe she’s been talking to Edd too much.
If he gets quick death instead of long suffering one, I’d be very upset. I hope there’s someone who is kind enough to break him into thousand pieces
I just don’t get why your reason is the actors’s chemistry. But if that’s what makes people start shipping, I would gladly vote for Sansa/Arya (#mophie for real, I love them!) or Jon/Dany because of Kit and Emilia
But most of all Robb/Jon because Kit and Richard are the hottest
I think this is also a vision from the past, when the Children of the Forest freely roamed Westeros. I saw the image in HBO’s next episode thumbnail, but did not see it in the preview. Glad someone posted it. Maybe we will learn more about the origin of Others.
Tycho said it already, but whoever it actually is has to be involved in the final battle. The whole point of the prophecy is it’s a person who saves humanity from the Great Other. Jon is one of two people who have killed one and she’s already foreseen him fighting at Winterfell. She’s never seen any visions of Beric.
In the books, she says ‘I pray for a look of Azor Ahai, but all R’hllor shows me is Snow’. Snow here means Jon Snow, though most people, Jon included, thinks that she sees snow when she looks in the fire for knowing Stannis’s whereabouts. Azor Ahai and Prince that was promised is the same person, in Melisandre’s opinion (she may be wrong). In the show, she may have seen him in the fires, leading the war against Others. But I agree that the way she says it in the show, it seems to come from nowhere.
Brienne is one of my favourite characters and I enjoyed watching her being admired by a great, strong man like Tormund. Another good episode for Brienne, her scene with Davos and Melisandre was impressive.
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
Sorry I don’t know the exact origins of the billions of words in the English language. It still sounds a bit modern to me!
Halfman,
I would say first cousins marrying in the UK is quite frowned upon. There are communities such as British Pakistanis where it’s quite common as part of their culture but there are not a lot of Celtic British people who would marry their first cousin.
The possibility of increased birth defects and recessive traits being passed down are probably the most likely reasons why. (Please don’t think I am coming across as insulting to your parents or ancestors by the way 🙂 )
Great episode, great recap, thanks for the writing.
Really surprised at how Dany “dealt with” the situation, I was waiting Drogon all the time. Loosing faith in humanity if someone is actually picking on that gorgeus woman.
And in the light of my friends labeling the show to be only about female parts (those who didn’t survive the first episode atleast), my god are the ladies going to bring the wrath now in the series. Sansa’s gonna kill ’em all.
Jjddss,
Haha yes, me too ?
On a lighter note, this episode has to be the best this season so far for me. Not one bad scene IMO, I do wish we had got to see a bit more of Osha but I loved the parallel to when she seduced Theon. With him, it worked, she escaped with both boys and the Wolves but when Ramsey is in charge it is a totally different story. At least it doesn’t sound like Rickon has been tortured… Yet ?
Dee,
I know, right? Ass babies DO cry a lot. Especially the big ones.
Sorry. Couldn’t resist. I now picture everyone letting out an exasperated sigh and trying to figure out if there is a way to delete other people’s comments. There’s not, by the way, but if anyone finds one please share!
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Oops, my bad; forgot the whole text. Maybe the book will go this way too (with the burning of the khals), since we are expecting 3 fires and this one seems to fit so well.
Crannogman Matt,
Really? Hmm, I think the last two have been a tad dull compared to the first two. But there are definitely strong scenes in all four. My favorite so far this season is the second ep. I was sorry to see Osha go. There is a joke somewhere in there about Ramsay and a bad apple but I can’t put my finger on it yet.
SQUEEEEEEEEE. *hugs and waves* I have missed you about this site. Glad to see you posting again (tho I might just have missed your posts) and I too cried like a wee one. *sigh* 🙂 There is the perfect GIF of this hug over at Hey, Don’t Judge Me. Just perfect, I am almost glued to it, I can’t take my eyes off it.
I too love to love the Stark family and wanted to see this reunion for so long it has been painful. But my mother told me that if I even held hands with my first cousins (I had a lot of them) that she would flay my behind. It was a no-no the way I was brought up and also the threat that the children of these sort of marriage would be deformed or lacking in mental capacity. It stuck. 🙂
Pigeon,
No Looney Tunes sound effects, but this is funny as hell, at least to me…
Am I the only one that doesn’t really like that they are already giving Day away as TPTWP?
I think that will take away all the fun out of it. We get it she is amazing and immune to fire.
(Although she isn’t immune to ice so the walkers have a slight advantage there xD)
I just find it sad that so many characters have gone through so much and she gets all the visually stunning scenes.
Oh well
I now ship Torienne and I am going down with it.
Love love love CB and the North. I am left wishing this season was all about the North really.
Sansa and Jon was amazing. Especially knowing that of all the siblings she was the one that always that treated him like a half-brother. She truly became one of the best characters. I am dying to see how many houses join them. Also loved seeing how Sansa said the bannermen would ally themselves to Jon and not her. It means a lot me thinks.
Great episode overall. (Dany let other characters shine please xD)
You just made my frickin’ day. ???
Season 6 kinda stinks so far…that was an episode full of yawns.
IamMe,
I don’t know what George has written in TWoW for Daenerys to get out of her jamb (* if she’s in one), but one has to assume it’s something pretty ‘fantastic’ as well. The Dothraki in the books are the same as the show, meaning, they wouldn’t just let her go and definitely wouldn’t hand her command of every khalasar. I guess what I’m getting at is that in the ‘written word’ she pretty much has all the “visually stunning” parts as well.
* if in the book the Dothraki simply fall in line because they see Drogon that’s rather anticlimactic and wouldn’t be very exciting for the show.
What do you guys think about Loras becoming the Champion of the Faith? I think it’s very likely. It might not be Cleganebowl but Loras vs Mountain should be great nonetheless.
I also find it curious that Three Eyed Raven is nowhere to be seen in Bran’s vision and its Meera who’s trying to wake him up. Someone brought this up earlier.
This is also the best season so far. Certainly living up to the hype, and this is only episode 4.
Syed Kabir,
Show!Loras v. the Mountain … from my point of view that’d last about 2 seconds … book!Loras did defeat Gregor via cunning … and almost died for it … but show!Loras doesn’t appear to be the same knight that book!Loras was
Darkrobin,
The question is valid though. Who will be the champion of the Faith? There’s only been fan spec
so far. The show hasn’t really gone in depth on anyone other than HS, Lancel and Unella. Lancel is meh in that matchup. Unella interests me but that still seems like a 2 second KO. Maybe one (or 3) SS pull an Oberyn?
Tycho Nestoris,
I was thinking what if all this grooming the high sparrow is doing to Tommen is getting him on his side; Tommen is the faith’s champion. Imagine that…
Leuf,
I think that’s an interesting question. The saying goes that “there must be a Stark at Winterfell”, but we never know the reason for that. It’s funny that the White Walker activity started to pick up as soon as the Starks had left/been pushed out of their home. My guess is that a peace was brokered between the White Walkers and the Northerners by Bran the Builder and the Children of the Forest that stated a Stark must remain there, or they’d march South. It’s interesting in the context of Tyrion’s “We broker peace with our enemies, not with our friends” line in this ep.
Thank you, Halfman. Obviously the two-headed babies was an exaggeration of what might have resulted from generations of intermarriages among siblings. I knew I was exaggerating when I told the girls, although that was the simplest explanation I could think to give preschoolers.
I was unaware that first cousin marriages were viewed favorably by everyone but the US. When Googling, focusing on the UK, I’m finding news articles that cover a mixture of controversy and favoritism.
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2008/may/24/familyandrelationships.health
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/theres-nothing-wrong-with-cousins-getting-married-scientists-say-1210072.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/children/11723308/First-cousin-marriages-in-Pakistani-communities-leading-to-appalling-disabilities-among-children.html
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/uk-first-cousin-marriages-leading-appalling-disabilities-among-children-1510003
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7404730.stm
Mel is convinced that Jon in AAR and TPTWP because of her visions of AAR/TPTWP battling at Winterfell and defeating the Others. She originally thought her visions were of Stannis, but once Stannis died, she realized that they were of Jon. From the back, they could look similar, especially in the non-Night’s-Watch attire. Beric looks nothing like her visions, I assume. And, when she met Beric, she was wholeheartedly convinced AAR was Stannis.
Did you mean Dany = AAR = TPTWP? They did that in the books, too, so I’m not the least surprised. Aemon, who told Sam who told Marwyn, tauted Khaleesi as AAR. Other red priestesses did, as well. Marwyn had the best response:
So I’m not the least surprised that the show is setting her up as AAR just as the books did. What I am surprised about is that they are giving the true prince (Jon Snow) away before we’ve even had R + L = J. #willtherealazorahairebornpleasestandup
Shy Lady Dragon,
I have missed you Shy Lady D, glad to see you posting! Oh I was very happy he came back to life. I did read spoiler on the net so I knew it was happening and how. I’m excited for what the future holds for him and the rest of Starks, I just don’t care for some of the dialogue, direction and pacing this season but that’s my personal, albeit unprofessional opinion 🙂 How do you feel about the KL plot now, and Jamie being with Cercei again?
Awesome it may be. But didn’t Dany just burned down a temple and messed up with another city’s culture and traditions (again)?
The Walkers’ activity starts long before the Starks leave Winterfell. After all, Ned executes a NW deserter fleeing the Walkers while Ned still is ensconced in Winterfell. And Mance has been trying to unite the Wildlings for some time prior to the start of the story because of the return of the Walkers.
That written, there almost certainly has been some agreement that was broken. We’ve no clear idea what it was. Wildlings have been north of the Wall for centuries, and that didn’t bring them back. Dragons have come and gone and come back again. Neither books nor show provide an indication of what has changed from millenia before. However, this is almost certainly going to be a lynchpin for the conclusion of the story as well as the plot. I suspect that we’ll learn that the truth is hidden behind lies in the Azor Ahai story: much as the truth about how Ned freed Lyanna is hidden behind lies.
All three of them, please!
Ginevra,
LoL the quote serves well to underdtand what Mel is doing ..
Want to know what song she will sing when she knows about dany and her dragons…I think I know
What it will be
Yeah so now that they namedropped jon as TPTWP twice he must be a red herring…thats how the dice rolls here right..
And for the #willthe realazorahairebornplease standup …I guess you must have not watched this episode ending where she was standing ..
I guess I will be OK with people accepting that both Jon and dany as AAr eventhough Jon did not fulfill anything related to prophecy ..but i cant stand this notion that dany is red herring to jon …
Tycho Nestoris,
Yes! I loved Viggo there. I want Jon to be like Aragorn
aabe,
She says she sees snow when she asks for mance as well ..
And what many forget is Jon does not appear in the fire until she specifically asks for his sister
Stargaryen,
I don’t know how people can think she can’t control dragons is beyond me..if she can’t then who else can ..
Incase you didnt read she already guides him where she wants ..towards the dothraki .
Its like saying arya cant nymeria when nymeria doesnt pick up the dress and help her pack ..geez
Wimsey,
And who will be the third one ..who is even related to the prophecy right now other than Jon and dany..
Maybe iam making you guys all sick and tired of my talk about proohecies….but I really like to know how drogon makes TSWMTW and dany being Red herring after five books of all the clues and foreshadowing …
Iam just trying to make sense to all this. .
Maybe people will still be in denial if dany did end up serving role after the remaining 20 episodes aired
Ninjas were cutting onions in my room when I was watching the scene between Jon and Sansa, last night. (And I don’t consider myself a very emotional person.) Despite my dislike of ‘Game of Thrones’s’ incorporating typical Hollywood tropes-after all, ‘Game of Thrones’ has been far from typical-I do love this scene, especially given that it’s an intimate moment between siblings (?) who’ve been estranged even before their departure. There’s a lot of potential for their storyline–and no, I’m not referring to the Jonsa/Jansa ship that has started to take root in the ‘internets’ (though I’m not opposed to it)-in that they both will allow each other some closure. Sansa is almost the spitting image of Catelyn; Jon is almost the spitting image of Ned, at least more so than Ned’s other sons. (There’s a reason why I’ll continue to refer to Jon as Ned’s son despite my belie.ving that his sire is Rhaegar Targaryen.) Catelyn is dead, so there can really be no closure between her and Jon. But just maybe, we might get this closure in Jon and Sansa. First, Sansa was not an ‘ass’ to Jon Snow in the books. They both admitted that they weren’t particularly close, but for the most part, Sansa wasn’t a terrible sister to Jon-she was more of an ass to Arya-and no where near as terrible to him in the books as Cat was in both the books and the show. In the books, Sansa gives Jon tips on how to speak to girls; she prays for him during the Battle of the Blackwater; when she’s in the vale under the Alayne Stone guise, she thinks of Jon fondly, even expressing how sweet it would be to see him again; and when Jon decides that he wants to join the Night’s Watch, Sansa is proud of him, thinking of the Night’s Watch as knights in black. And Jon remembers Sansa quite fondly as well, noting Ygritte’s similar red hair (and Sansa’s ‘radiance’) and supporting her claim to the North against Stannis. I’m not complaining about the inclusion of Sansa’s regret over her being an ‘ass’ to Jon Snow. I actually think it’s quite nice because that gives Jon a bit of reconciliation in a sense that Sansa is the proxy of those of his family members who treated him like a bastard. For Sansa, Jon is every bit like Ned. And in her reconnecting with Jon, not only can Sansa reinduct herself into the Stark family she betrayed in Book One, but she can reconcile with the father whom she had betrayed. Not only does Jon look the most like Ned, but Jon emulates him in mannerisms and demeanor; Jon has also stuck to his code of honor and keeps the same gods as Ned. Jon, like Ned, also becomes the eldest Stark son-albeit bastard son-after his Lord Brother is killed. Jon is even wearing Stark armor in this episode, mirroring a Young Ned’s armor almost exactly (coincidence?) So in many ways, just like Sansa is Cat’s proxy, Jon is Ned’s proxy.
As for the possible ‘ship’ between these two, I don’t think it’s likely on the show (though it may be possible in the books.) For those who’ve said, ‘but they’re cousins,’ that doesn’t really make much of an impact. Despite the misconceptions about consanguineous relationships, babies born to cousins will not be born with ‘two heads.’ In fact, the risk for genetic defects or deformity in babies born to cousins is just as much as the risk for women bearing children at age 34 and over. In other words, there’s a 96% chance that babies born to cousins will be, in fact, healthy. And I don’t know if anyone else picked this up when watching the scene after their hug, catching up and reminiscing, but didn’t Jon look A LOT like Ned, and Sansa look A LOT like Catelyn?
I’m just going back and watching the Jorah / Daario scene when they enter Vaes Dothrak and it is chockfull of the kind of stuff that has irritated me this season.
Daario makes a comment about how it would be a lose lose situation for him to fight Jorah, and then Jorah makes the remark “you didn’t have much discipline as a child did you?” which has absolutely nothing to do with anything he just said.
Then there is the whole charade about his knife and Daario finally saying “Don’t worry I’ll get rid of this” which makes it so blatantly obvious that he’s not going to get rid of it. Should’ve just cut that whole thing out.
Then there is the altercation with the two Dothraki. For the fourth time this season already we have someone bail another person out by stabbing their attacker in the back.
This is getting to be a tired trope already. And then they are worried about the body being found, so Daario decides to smash his head with a rock, which makes 0 sense to me. Never mind the fact that they only did it to one body, didn’t Daario snap the other guys neck that he chased down? I guess they weren’t worried about that body?
This is just a microcosm of some of the sloppiness that has bothered me this season and I just don’t understand it.
I feel like fans will be debating this whole PwwP/AAR stuff even after the series is over. Truthfully, how would one ever know for sure? I think this is something George will leave up to interpretation. I’m with Wimsey in believing the dragon has three heads is connected to the other prophecies. In my opinion, the 3 heads are Dany(Fire),Jon(Ice and Fire), and Bran(Ice). But I’m not married to the idea.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
As far as Jorah’s comments go, he was commenting on Daario’s immaturity and rashness.
This is followed up directly with the next scene you reference. The reason Daario saving Jorah with a blade is not cliche is because it directly follows their previous conversation. The very thing Jorah was looking down on Daario for is the very thing that saved him. This is how, dramatically, you build a bond between two very different characters. You highlight their differences and then show how those differences bring them together. I guess a lot of the subtle dialogue is lost on you? Maybe you should watch another show?
As far as the Daario wielding the rock, I don’t think he destroyed just the head. I think he mutilated the body, which covered up the stab wound. And yeah the snapping of the neck is fine. It’s blades in Vaes Dothrak they were worried about. Weren’t you paying attention?
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Let’s look at this way say this is what we will be getting in the show and books with Jon and dany ..where dany has fulfilled and Jon not …
Why the need to debate
Say if the tables have been turned and jon is in the place like dany walking out of pyre. People will be shouting it as clear confirmation..
I guess thats why there are lots of lots of disappointment over Jon not walking not out pyre
LatrineDiggerBrian,
I agree about the dagger hiding, but Jorah likely figured Daario was worried about getting greyscale, and was a bit shaken he’d found out.
Weapons aren’t allowed in Vaes Dothraki, but being resourceful is. Hand to hand combat is fair game, if you break someone’s neck or use a handy available rock, they don’t fuss. The rock was a distraction from the dagger wound (although why they wouldn’t still see that if they checked the body, idk. At any rate, Khal Moron didn’t care).
I think Jorah was basically saying that he should have learned to respect his elders as a child, after Daario’s ‘old man’ jokes got…well…old.
It occurred to me today that we might be losing some of the significance of what’s happening in KL with a sequence of very slow and methodical scenes over the last four episodes. I just think that everyone (the High Sparrow, Cersei, Jaime, Olenna, Pycelle, Margaery, etc.) has very different motivations and plans than are currently being shown onscreen. The way they cut off the Cersei/Tommen scene before launching into the council scene was proof of that.
I agree with you. There are a lot quick and convenient resolutions of which I’m not fond this season.
I’m glad that you mentioned this. Whenever I hear the details of these theories (not the theories themselves) whether it’s Azor Ahai Reborn or the Prince Who Was Promised–even Tyrion being the third Targaryen, the third head of the dragon–I question whether the people involved have actually read Martin’s material. Martin as he approaches these prophecies is very subtle, nuanced, and quite a bit subversive. He even said so himself. And he’s even more subtle when it comes to character resolutions (e.g. Sansa’s hairnet in Joffrey’s murder, and Jon’s execution of Janos at the Wall.) I think these theorist are expecting this grandiose revelation, when that really isn’t Martin’s style. (Though, I must concede it may be the show’s.)
Furthermore, I agree in some sense with Bran’s being one of the dragons. I think it’s more likely that Bran is the third head than Tyrion, who has never really been associated with any supernatural abilities. Knowing the dragons, and their impact on magic, I would say that undermines Tyrion’s candidacy. Your candidates Tyrion Pimpslap actually satisfies the binary that is ‘Ice and Fire’ in a subtle, yet obvious way.
Darkrobin,
Ser Loras vs the Mountain, Ser Loras dies, and then comes The Hound to fight the Mountain…
CLEGANEBOWL CONFIRMED! GET HYPE!!!!
You are allowed to be married to up to three ideas for this one!
😀
That is a hell of a good question. My guess is that we’ll slap ourselves in the collective forehead when we realize it.
Matthieu Lannister,
What would you have liked to see? In this episode and the first four? I’m curious to see how much better of story teller you are 🙂
Colty,
No shit, obviously he’s commenting on his wildness, what wasn’t clear to me was that Daario was insulting Jorah for being old because Ian Glain looks old.
It doesn’t matter if it was ironic or not. It has nothing to do with what I said, but that’s nice you want to make yourself look smart. It was obvious, any idiot could see he was going to keep the knife and when Jorah got into trouble, you saw it coming a mile away. 4 times in 4 episodes already. Think of something different my goodness.
You’re wrong, he did destroy the head, the Dothraki mentions it to Khal Moro when they speak towards the end of the episode. It’s not only weapons in Vaes Dothrak, it’s bloodshed, so while you are right about the neck snapping, the head smashing makes no sense. Of course later on in the episode, Khal Moro says “there has always been a little bit of bloodshed” after his blood rider tells him that someone “spilled blood”. So did Daario know he would be cool about that? That’s why it was iffy to me and I don’t understand the point of it. I wonder if they realized the mistake they made and corrected it later with Khal Moro’s dialogue.
Bloodshed isn’t allowed in Vaes Dothrak. You can choke someone or burn someone, but can’t spill blood. Honestly, I think they made a mistake and corrected it later with Khal Moro’s dialogue.
What was unclear to me about Daario’s dialogue was that he was insulting him for being old because Ian Glain looks old. So in my head, it seemed like he was just speaking truth and I missed that he was supposed to be insulting him with that piece of dialogue.
dragonbringer,
I simply disagree that Jon doesn’t fulfill any of the prophecy. I’ve said before that all of the prerequisites weren’t present for Dany either. There was no salt in the funeral pyre. So if we want to argue semantics, that means she can’t be AA Reborn either. That is if you take the prophecies literally. I don’t argue against Dany being part of the prophecy, though. She clearly is. I just don’t think George will put all of his eggs in one basket.
The arguments for Jon are:
– Was actually reborn into life
– Melisandre claims her magic is stronger at the Wall, and is continually shown Jon in her flames when she asks to see a glimpse of AA reborn
– Jon has a dream where his sword burns red in his hand
– The visual of the stare down with the Night’s King in the show
– His overall story has always been centered around protecting the realm against the Others
– Darkness gathered,stars bled red,salt from tears, and smoke from his wound were all present during the FTW scene in the books
– Longclaw was literally pulled from the fire of the burnt down Lord Commander’s tower
I would ask what you think Jon’s role will be in the story? Why was he brought back to life? Why has George waited to reveal his parentage until so late in the series? Do you think that is even important? The fact that he has both ice and fire in his blood is insignificant? If only Dany is all of these prophecies rolled into one, what does it all mean? Why even present the possibility that each could be tpwwp, as the books and show have done? Do you think one of them will do something that will prove the other is not worthy?
Tyrion Pimpslap,
He has that argument with anybody who tries to suggest that Jon could be AAR ?. Who knows, he may be right in the end. But right now it’s too early to say Jon has nothing to do with these prophecies. There is good reason to think he is also associated with the same. That’s my guess as well, both Jon and Dany will be associated with AAR. We may never truly get the answer and we will be asked to make our own assumptions. Besides it makes no sense when you consider Mel’s arc, that after these seasons of being wrong about Stannis, she is now wrong about Jon. We need to see her purpose in this story and imo, her purpose is connected to Jon and not Dany
Shy Lady Dragon,
Tormund is the first man to admire Brianne for what she is. I am totally over Jaime-Brienne. It’s Tormienne all the way for me ?.
JCDavis,
Oh, it’s so good to see that you’re missed! *hugs back*
I’ve posted only twice lately because I’ve been very busy. And WOTW is bigger and bigger, which is a joy for everybody, but made me sad that I couldn’t manage to read all the comments anylonger. I came here to read every day, but less time than I used to, so and I had no time for writing. But I can’t stay away, this site is addicted!
ygritte,
I missed you and my other friends on WOTW as well!
I certainly dislike to see Jaime following Cersei around and looking less and less like an independent person. Back in season 1 I hated him, but he was a striking presence. Now he seems to blend with the background. I got that losing one’s daughter – and after such a touching reunion – must change a person and not for the better. In the first episode his behaviour seemed normal under the circumstances, even if I don’t want him act like the preserver of Lannister legacy. But now… as if he weren’t around.
I’m curious to see what he’ll do next… you know what I mean if you follow the spoilers 😉
I miss Bronn a lot, he’s one of my favourites and KL has lost another colourful character by having moved Varys to Meereen. Good for Meereen, though!
ghost of winterfell,
You are right (unfortunately)! It took Jaime some time and some trauma to discover Brienne and get accustomed to her different look and personality. His type must be delicate, elegant and manipulative shrews 🙂 Tormund, on the other hand, is attracted by the women who are like Brienne. But I admire him even more for admiring Brienne!
I must admit that I still hope for Jaime and Brienne to be together, even if for a short period of time. I’m afraid Tormund won’t be around for much longer.
It’s right, you don’t understand it. The things you pointed out all make perfect sense as to why they were included. I honestly don’t feel like bothering to explain them to you, because every comment of yours in every single episode recap so far has been like this.
Stop thinking you’re smarter than the writers because you’re not. Just because everything seems to go over your head doesn’t mean the writers are clueless or anything, it’s you who needs to ask someone else to explain it for you.
You’re right, somehow I forgot it wasn’t just no weapons, but no bloodshed.
Syed Kabir,
OK explain to me why Daario is bashing in the Dothraki’s head with a rock, to cover up the stab wound in his chest, when in Vaes Dothrak shedding blood is outlawed. Go ahead, let’s hear it.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Jorah told Daario that weapons aren’t allowed in Vaes Dothrak earlier in the scene. Hence, to cover up a wound caused by a dagger, a weapon, he smashed his head by a rock instead.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
He probably bashed his skull and his chest at the same time to look like he was beaten to death. I don’t think the DOthraki CSI would notice
And yes bloodshed is not allowed but the idea of covering up the stab wound was so as to not alert that there could have been a foreigner in town with a weapon, rather it could have been anyone.
I understand differences in opinion and not liking things etc, but you Seriously you nitpick every single detail. How do you enjoy the show? Just watch the show man.
Oh so he covered up the stab wound in his chest by bashing his head in (which was confirmed by the random Dothraki in the Dosh Khaleen later when he said “someone crushed his head with a rock”). Why does someone try to cover up a stab wound in someones chest by bashing their head in with a rock?
And you do realize that it’s not only carrying weapons that’s forbidden in Vaes Dothrak, but spilling blood is also? This was also confirmed by the random Dothraki in the Dosh Khaleen when he said “it is forbidden to spill blood in the sacred city”.
Do you get my point now about how Daario smashing the guys head made no fucking sense whatsoever? Do you get how you’re the one that’s wrong and not me? Maybe you should look into things more carefully before you write posts like that, because in the end you just end up looking stupid.
I don’t nitpick every single detail. That was just really sloppy and stupid and it made no sense. Just listen to the reasoning you’re having to use to rationalize it, it’s ridiculous. My overarching point is it’s just a microcosm of how this season has gone so far for me. There has been more meh stuff in four episodes than almost all of the first 5 seasons combined.
Tim of House Deddings,
This complaint I will never understand.
In a previous episode we are told that for a Khal to take over another Khalasar he has to kill their Khal. That is exactly what Dany did.
And that is exactly what she should have done in Meereen, kill all the master, ”fire and blood” it’s her negotiating, trying to compromise and doubting herself that were the real problem, not her ending slavery.
Oh dear, may I ask how old you are? You seem to be stuck in a preoperational stage. Jorah told Daario that weapons arent allowed. Thats it. There was nothing said about bloodshed, whether that’s the actual rule or not.
Shy Lady Dragon,
Yeah, I don’t really think Tormienne is going anywhere. It would be great if they did though!
As for Jaime, what the show has done wrt his character so far this season is my one big complaint for S6. I saw a Twitter comment saying that the Mountain has shown more personality than Jaime so far this season, and sadly it’s true.
Don’t worry about it, you don’t understand it, you’re just digging the hole deeper with each response you make. Keep making an idiot out of yourself.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
You do nitpick every single detail
That’s all you’ve done since the season first started – it’s too bad that you’re usually the only one that sees what you see – you and maybe 0.01% of people
Cause everyone else is enjoying the shit out of this season. Ultimately it’s your loss.
And I actually think my reasoning makes perfect sense. I figured when he was bashing the body he was bash head and chest – cause you can break people’s ribs with a rock too. Use your imagination.
Also there was so discussion of bloodshed, just weapons
I don’t get why you waste your time talking about something that annoys you or is “meh”
Latrine:
LatrineDiggerBrian,
And I actually think my reasoning makes perfect sense. I figured when he was bashing the body he was bash head and chest – cause you can break people’s ribs with a rock too. Use your imagination.
Also there was so discussion of bloodshed, just weapons
You do nitpick every single detail
That’s all you’ve done since the season first started – it’s too bad that you’re usually the only one that sees what you see – you and maybe 0.01% of people
Cause everyone else is enjoying the shit out of this season. Ultimately it’s your loss.
I don’t get why you waste your time talking about something that annoys you or is “meh”. If something mehed me as much as this did to you, I would drop it. Lol
It’s laughable how people think they can write better than the actual writers of the show. So funny.
Dee,
Its best to just ignore people like these. Either he’s trolling or he’s one of the most dense people I’ve ever come across.
Moving on, yeah Tormienne is probably not happening. Brienne is supposed to go off on a mission(probably to the Riverlands for Arya) next episode according to the synopsis, and Tormund seems like a prime candidate to die at Bastard-bowl.
Dee,
And let’s not pretend Daario is a genius. He simply wanted to hide the blade marks. At that point in time they were still planning a ”cover” rescue mission and wanted to hide proof that could lead to them.
Of course this becomes completely irelevent when Dany decides not to run and confront the Khals.
Jaime after season 4 has indeed been a disappointment to me. But hopefully that all changes after he gets to the Riverlands this season(based off of trailers). Speaking of which, talking about things confirmed from trailers don’t have to be covered by spoiler tags right?
Syed Kabir,
I don’t think he’ll die. We need him as a face for the Wildlings.
Sadly I have a feeling Rickon will die…
Tycho Nestoris,
That’s what everyone was saying but remember that before he died Drogo had already said he will cross the narrow sea for Dany. And after seeing what Dany could do with the flames, that fear might not be a big factor. How can it when you have a god on your side? But that’s just an assumption at this point. We’ll have to wait and see.
Syed Kabir,
I don’t think so. They are public info that anyone can see.
Shadow Shifter,
We might get a funny scene with seasick Dothraki. But they will follow Dany, of that I have no doubt.
Syed Kabir,
Haha
Extremely dense I think
I really hope tormund does not die.
Syed Kabir,
How can you tell he’s in the river lands from trailers? I didn’t haha
Mihnea,
Nooooooo 🙁
Exactly my point. How on earth could Daario know about the whole rule about ‘spilling blood’ in Vaes Dothrak? Jorah only told him about weapons. This argument extends to many other supposed ‘plotholes’ (why didnt Littlefinger know about Ramsay?). People can’t seem to realise that
1. The characters on the show dont share the same knowledge as the viewers.
2. The characters dont always have to make completely ‘rational decisions’. Eg. Killing Doran to avenge Oberyn might seem dumb to the viewers, and while that may be a bad move, you have to look at it from Ellaria’s perspective, who saw their ruler sitting on his ass doing nothing.
Dee,
Well, there’s a scene where it shows Jaime riding what looks like a Lannister camp with red tents. And since this is a sullied recap, we can safely assume that means he’s going to be doing a version of his book plot in the Riverlands. Hopefully that finally aligns(or starts to align) show Jaime with Book Jaime. And even if it doesnt, well, the show is the show and the book is the book, but i would like him to be more interesting than what he is right now.
And I just think Tormund’s a goner at Bastardbowl I’m sorry 🙁 . I know he’s the face of the wildlings but it seems like this episode will be his big moment, and he’ll go out with a bang.
Ginevra,
Interesting. I have to admit it rarely occurs to me to think about it and my parents had no one comment at all at the time. Continued interfamilial marriage would I think create more of an issue, and it is much less common now amongst white British people than it was when my parents married.
The most inter related family in the UK is probably the royal family.
Me too! I keep re watching the dinner table scene haha. And Tormund’s face when she rides in through the Castle gates at the beginning is a picture.
Syed Kabir,
Agree 100%
Syed Kabir,
Ahhh! I haven’t read the books so that’s probably why it never occurred to me!
Yes I get all that from the books the ‘all I see is Snow’ etc. but in the show I was waiting for her to mention something about her visions either last week or last night but Show!Melisandre seems to have just decided that because she rezzed him he must be TPTWP while when we have seen her speak to Thoros it never occurs to her.
I do get it – she was following Stannis at the time and all that but just one throwaway line about seeing Jon in her visions would have tidied this up I feel.
Not usually one to nitpick AT ALL – I freaking love this show, but I just think she should have mentioned her visions before claiming outright that Jon is TPTWP.
Mihnea,
Oh they will. There’s no stopping her from going to Westeros at this point. I’m guessing the Ironborn will be the one to provide ships for her. I’d be very disappointed if this season ends with Dany still in Essos. She should be at least sailing to Westeros at the end of season 6.
Daeryssa,
In Mel’s eyes it was R’hllor who brought Jon back not her.
And when she met Beric, Stannis, who she thought was the promised one was still alive.
She did see Jon in her visions, in the very first episode she says he saw him fighting at WF.
Not to mention last season, where she clearly shows great interest in him, even saying there is great power in you.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
So what you want is a show that satisfies you 100% in realism and believability in every possible aspect? Good luck with that.
I want Natalie Dormer to sit on my face, but you have to be realistic about these things.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Oh please ..
Did you see what you are doing you are totally mixing everything from everywhere in the books and the show ..in that case everyone can be AAR. .
About your points
– never argued he was not reborn ..except there was others who brought back the same way and Mel knows it .
– she sees jon only after she specifically asks for his sister and abouy him ..
– its easy to dream up something you know about ..
– of course he is going to have a stare down with NK …he is one of the protagonists..and that scene just tells us how its hopeless to win against them and looking for a hope …
Bran will be having one too this season i believe ..
About your last point that’s why I so against this claim …yes stars bled even though it was blue and based on a bet that author lost ..giving something so important based on lost bet more power to the author ..even let’s say take all that stars bled smoke was there slat was there…
But the important thing about pulling sword from fire when stars bled …where is it ..oh yes it happens else where ..
But the lightbringer alone was taken out fire back in book one everything happens in fifth book… He didn’t pull anything from fire at least stannis did .
The salt and smoke was established as dragonstone..thats why her being born there is a big thing …mel says she thinks stannis is AAR because he is lord of dragonstone but jon thinks she is wrong because stannis was only lord not born there …you know after who moved from dragonstone stannis became lord of it …yes after dany ..slayer of lies .
Its all come down to this every time …one will not be worthy if he is not chosen one ..for What its worth I have always said Jon is important never claimed he is a red herring …all iam saying is he has to yet to fulfill he may do in future but nothing yet ..
Ofcourse he is going to be a big part of fight against others… So is dany and bran .why do you think Jon as been brought back ..you see why he has brought back to take him out of NW and he is going to end up as king at the end of series ..I simply don’t believe that his parentage alone does not make him ice and fire..
Its always funny how people say one should not take prophecy literal and then claim he is literally song of ice anf fire. .
The very reason why there exists countless theories of how jon is born amidst salt and smoke and lightbringer and nissa nissa and bleeding star and stone dragons proves my point that jon as not fulfilled because there would have been an definite answer if he had did …the reason there exists so many possiblities is because people already wrote the answer and trying to fit jon into ..
Take your version in that he as everything from salt smoke and bleeding star in FTW scene but dont have lightbringer …so you go back and make a connection of him getting sword after saving LC life …everything about what we learn about lightbringer does not match your version ..but the answer will be should not taken literally ..
Believe me if he fulfills organically i will be the first to say he did but now simply not ..
And remember we still yet to know full part of the prophecy and what one who was promised is destined to do ..
For me its dany because she will unite most of the people and bring them west and ride to the end of the world and die or sacrifice to end long night .
ghost of winterfell,
No my friend I argue with only those who considers dany as a red herring and when trying to fit Jon into it ..
Can you guys say dany is any less important than Jon …is it her only purpose to be a red herring for Jon and give him the dragons..
So you don’t think its interesting to see that she has no idea about dany and her dragons but yet she still sees the vision of viserys dying and dany’s dragons when she asks about AAR ..
Why do you think she has been in the dark regarding dany ..
I think it makes perfect sense for Dany to be impervious to fire, blood of the dragon and taking boiling baths/holding burning objects. Why add a requirement for more magic on top of that? Would be an unnecessary and clunky plot device. She’s going to be riding dragons breathing fire, she’d get too hot and toasted without this skill. If this truly isn’t the case in the books then the show makers made the smarter call imo
Queensmoot,
Totally missed my point!
Haven’t read all comments so apologies if this has been mentioned… Has anyone seen the WiC report of the COTF on the HBO Go website?
There’s a pic of a group of them at the same tree with the ceremonial standing stones, that is in Bran’s WW vision next week!
mariamb,
A Question:
Even if/after R + L = J is established, Jon will still be a Snow right?!? Rhaegar’s bastard instead of Ned’s. Being a bastard brought up in the North he has to keep Snow as a surname!
What if he establishes his own bastard-based dynasty like I think has happened in the past…(Blackfyres??) when they reverse the colours and make slight differences to their sigil – Maybe he can make one where a direwolf and dragon both feature…
Cameryn,
Tycho Nestoris,
Yeah it is def. odd the more I think about and the more little notes you state. How does he get there so quick – I am assuming he just bust his ass to get there but he can’t be with an army. But you would think a small contingency would be with him. I guess we will find out come Sunday, can’t wait!
This Littlefinger teleporting stuff is weird, because in season 1 Catelyn Stark travels from Winterfell to Kings Landing in 1 episode, and before the hand of the king tournament and no-one batted an eyelid? This is a far greater journey. Littlefinger could easily take his ship and be at CB in a couple of weeks or less. Depends on how long you think Jon and Sansa would stay at Castle Black for.
MakeThemBurn,
That is great breakdown. You are right. The laymans term way to explain is Dany’s meereen arc was there for her to connect with her dragons (wait for them to grow) and gain a force and actually become a ruler before she could leave to attempt and rule Westeros. Nice literary breakdown!
Joffrey’s Cunt,
I know very little about the WWs/COTF/north of the Wall magical stuff, but read something on 4Chan the other day about their connection to each other. Yes, before you say anything I know it’s practically THE most unreliable troll-filled place imaginable and should be taken with the biggest pinch of salt ever but there was a guy who claimed to work on the show answering questions. I’ll put this in spoiler tags just in case there’s anything in it but he said
I’ve no idea if this is remotely feasible or a theory people already have? It’s the first time I’d heard it and thought it sounded interesting. Based on where it’s from it’s probably the only thing you can guarantee isn’t the actual answer, but there you go 😉
Hi Shy Lady Dragon *waves donkey ears* I’ve missed you too! I know you love Jaime and Brienne together but her and Tormund would also be awesome. As someone said it’s the ship we didn’t realise we needed 😀
Lulus Mum,
WRT the spoilered comment, sounds too much like
. Not sure if GRRM would go there.
dragonbringer,
Okay in regards to Dany’s dragon control I am not sure if you are referring to the books or to the show and correct me if I am wrong. This is what I want to see eventually and I should have expressed that in my previous message – I want to see Dany control her dragons the way Aegon did his to win Westeros. That is my goal and that is what control is in my eyes. In the books – the last couple chapters that have Dany with Drogon this is what happens. Drogon comes flying down to save his mother in the fighting pits. Yes, he at least comes to save her. There is some love control there. But he is burning slaves, masters, and unsullied. If I am not mistaken he even burns Dany! All of that happens in the show as well – except Dany being burnt. She has enough control to get on his back and fly out of there. But then her next chapter and even next scene in show have her wanting drogon to take her back and she can’t get anywhere with that. So yes, there is a small amount of control there. But the control I am talking about is the ability to hop on your dragon and go where you want to, not where the dragon wants to. She doesn’t have the control to keep the dragon from hurting people on her side. To the smaller dragons – hell in the books she basically doesn’t even go to them at all once they are chained. They get let out and they are flying all over Meereen killing anyone they feel like. At least in the show she goes down to the dragons when it is time for feeding. I would almost say that she has more control of the other two dragons in the show then she does in the books. So before you go claiming she has control of her dragons I think we can agree we have different degrees of what we think is control. I want to see her control those dragons the way history and books make it sound like Aegon and his sisters controlled theirs. She is NO WHERE EVEN CLOSE to that type of control. So yes, I am looking for the dragons to be “submissive” the way the direwolves are to the Starks. But that is not the comparison I am looking for. They are dragons and the direwolves are obviously dog like (which dogs are submissive in nature). I am aware that it will be a different relationship she can’t go bop the dragon on the nose and say bad drogon and expect the dragon to sit down and sulk. But I expect Dany to be able to call to her dragon when she needs to and he comes. She needs to be able to get on the dragon and that dragon takes her where she wants to go. All he knows to do is tell when his mother is in trouble so he goes down and burns anyone and everyone around her, he will let her sit on his back while he flies (nothing more than that), and he knows when she says Dracarys that he needs to breathe fire. Yeah, if she were to be in a battle right now with the dragon it would be disasterous for all parties!
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
I’m not a fantasy fan so am Jon Snuh in these circumstances: know nothing.
😀
Many who subscribe to R + L = J believe that Jon is not a bastard. Targaryens had been known for polygamy in the past, and so Lyanna is believed to be Rhaegar’s second wife, with Jon a legitimate son and so the legitimate heir to the Iron Throne. We feel that R + L = J is meaningless without this legitimacy, although others argue that it will be difficult to prove legitimacy now that everyone is dead. I have no doubt that George has a plan for that, though.
All of this has happened before and will happen again…
7.82 million viewers for Sunday night!!! 🙂
This episode by far ranks right in my top 5. And ofcourse Khaleesi had me cheering at the end as Sansa’s entry did at the opening.. Loved the sibling reunion theme running through it and the ladies taking the lead in empowering and securing each of their houses.
1. Jon- Sana
2. Loras- Margaery
3. Jaime- Cersei
4. Theon- Yaara
However…………. my Lords and ladies,,,,,, who would agree that all the above combined do not hold a Candle to the sibling Dynamic of
5. Tyrion- Cersei by far the most entertaining and funny/tragic and complicated relationship of all thanks to the performances by Headey and Dinklage.
The mother have Mercy and we see them share the screen again before the series ends.
By then Cersei realizes the truth of his innocence and finally gives him the love and acceptance he always longed for from her. That scene would bring about the most tears and claps I bet and would be a perfect parting for them before things start to go to shit…
and then Cersei takes Tyrion by force and has sex with him to get her ultimate revenge! 😀 (Ok the last part was a joke- But am I alone in really hoping those two can finally work it out? fuck the Volanquar shite? Or is there Little hope they will ever share a frame again? Curious about everyone’s thoughts!
Theory crafting (based on ACOK Dany prophecy):
Fire for life – birth of the dragons (1×10)
Fire for death – death of the Khals (6×04)
Fire for love – Coming soon?
I know these prophecies are not in the show, but that doesn’t rule out the corresponding plot points will occur. Example: Robb’s fate was heavily foreshadowed in ACOK too and though that prophecy wasn’t showed (far too spoilery for TV), it happened anyway.
Yes, a couple weeks…if it were safe for him to waltz across the North. It’s not. But of course, it wasn’t safe for him to go to the North for the first time, or to King’s Landing after that, or back to the Vale after that. In fact, in GRRM’s world rather than D&D’s, he’d have lost his head and/or skin in all three locations. LF’s latest scene basically had him betting his life on Robin being utterly, entirely irrational in a way that completely favored LF and didn’t make a lick of sense. Why would Robin be so pro-LF that he’d first ignore the fact that LF betrayed Sansa, and then immediately hand LF his army so LF could go rescue her?
I was wondering clear back early last season how LF was going to bail himself out of the Vale mess that was spawned by the Sansa-in-Winterfell diversion. D&D’s answer of Deus-ex-Robin was very unsatisfying. The only thing worse so far this season was the Sand Snakes, which will be hard to top in terms of nonsense.
Overall, it was a decent episode, but that scene bugged me a lot.
And I do love how D&D made the High Sparrow out to be a cobbler. That’s one clever
joke. Kudos to them on that.
Stargaryen
OK now I understand what you are saying ..
But couple of things we need to consider in regards to dany and her dragons …
1- dany is all alone she doesn’t have the same learning that her ancestors had ..she is starting from the scratch ..
Remember how much aemon felt sad for dany being alone and how he wanted to help her and teach her when he know aboyt dany and her dragons ..
2 – you need to consider the plot and theme of ADWd and what martin is trying to tell…
Chaining of dragons is metaphor to dany chaining herself …we see dany being getting lost bit by bit and after every sacrifice she makes ..she starts doubting herself
She rejects her dragons and her ancestory .she starts wearing floppy ears..
You have to consider the timing of drogon’s return …he returns the moment when she rejects the meereenese culture and removes her floppy ears ..
But she was yet to embrace her house and destiny ..
So drogon did not submit to her..
And once in the last chapter you can see drogon doesn’t want to take her back to meereen…and when she finally embraces her destiny and house ….drogon comes for her calling and goes where he is directed ..
And its no coincidence that immediately after she and drogon flew other dragons break their chains .
So it all comes down to dany chaining her inner dragon and then freeing the dragon at the end of the book…
You mentioned about dany not visiting them but she did go there and visited them ..we also see that they feel when their mother is close when she goes to meet them with quentyn and barristan ..
And when quentyn tries to steal them you can see how they mistook the lady as dany and goes towards her and then disappointed she is not their mother ..
So there is still the love and care on both sides ..
And one more thinh what we have to consider is dany is the first POV who is riding dragons so the experience will be different from what we get told in third man perspective…say we see dany riding dragons through tyrion and barristan eyes ..it will look like she is got it all under control
The Tolletts are from the Vale. So, even more representation at the dinner
JonFookinSnow,
And just maybe the various clips in the show don’t take place at the same time.
Dee,
I never said I could write better. And I don’t nit pick every detail, I’m not one of those people that complains about Little Finger’s travel, or Brienne getting around Moat Cailin, or Dorne or Sansa’s story getting changed. Like I said, I’ve been a super fan of the show through the first 5 seasons. I think though, like some of the folks at Westeros.org are incapable of complimenting the show, some of the folks here are incapable of criticizing it.
In this instance, if you go back and watch the dialogue int he Temple of the Dosh Khaleen, they are essentially covering their tracks. I think what happened was, they forgot that in Vaes Dothrak it’s not just carrying weapons that is illegal, but that bloodshed is also. You said there is no mention of bloodshed, but the first subtitled text in the Temple was the random dothraki guy saying to Khal Moro “it is forbidden to spill blood in the sacred city”.
So it was probably a mistake. Fine, mistakes happen and that doesn’t bother me. But my overall point was, there have been more mistakes and sloppiness this season than in all prior 5 seasons combined.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
And then Moro corrects him by saying:”It is forbidden to carry weapons” They even put accent on ”carry” in the subtitles.
The other guy then says ”yes, so we won’t spill blood.”
I think it’s clear that weapons are strictly forbidden from a cultural/religious POV.
The second part, in my opinion, is more of a a logical continuation/conclusion of the first part and not a strict law.
As Moro says ”there’s always a bit of blood.”
EDIT: Not that it matters, who is going to try and punish Daario now?
Mihnea,
Him saying that was them trying to cover their tracks, because in the lore bloodshed is forbidden.
Anyway, the point is, the whole thing was convoluted and pointless. They should’ve just had them hide the body in a cave and be done with it.
You’re right, it doesn’t matter now, but the point was to show some of the odd choices they’ve made this season that have bugged me.
it was a good episode, i lovr the stark reunion sansa i am pretty neutral ( in a good way) toward jon 2.0 i like him he less one dimensional than before he smile more,laugh more and even make joke, he is also more of a realist (obviously) and less reckless than before….but on the other side there is something “off” with i don’t know if this is the acting or the will of the writters but i expected a better reaction for jon,not necessesary on the letter but by the simple that rickon is implied, i find hard describe his emotion when he saw rickon on the letter…was that anger or fear? jon was wise there they need time to gather armies…..but there weaird abiout him in that scene that i can’t truly describe….the pink letter is huge part on jon storyline…but sansa his thunder on that scene and shows her level up moment that all i wanted for sansa since season 1 but i wanted THAT particular scene to be for jon….and that fact he didn’t read it until end dissapoint me… i think jon is still in shocked and don’t truly realise that he came back i hope this is just a phase and jon don’t end being “the loyal sidekick” all the seasonnhe need a purpose and i hope D&D don’t fuck his character up for the sake of the plot…….oh and he need a talk with mel
Has anyone discussed the implications of Osha’s attempt to kill Ramsay, i.e. The Great Northern Conspiracy? If she had been successful wtf is her plan of action?
Does she believe she can escape from Winterfell with Rickon? Or maybe this is just a desperate act of someone who sees no way out. She wants to kill Ramsay knowing full well she will die soon after regardless that this leaves Rickon on his own.
Or perhaps this botched murder attempt indicates there is credence to northern conspiracy theories.
I think her experience at WF and what she saw is all she needs, she knows full well he doesn’t bluff, he pointedly told us so on the “Wedding Night”
Gemma Whelan was simply brilliant this episode.
…that’s all.
All of a sudden people love the “New” Sansa, I find that odd as she’s the same Sansa, her strengths were always there, she just could not use them at the time, we are given hints to it in the show, though they also dumbed her down for the show, they put her thoughts in creepy finger’s mouth, and changed her Vale Arc.
We also don’t have the advantage of knowing what she’s thinking with in the show.
Could that fire be for Jorah? The only person who, like, proper loves her and with his greyscale maybe that’ll be needed….That could also be her Nissa Nissa (though Khal Drogo’s done though so, anyway)
ramses,
I think it was a desperate act of the writers to eliminate a character they had no idea what to do with, so I’m not sure why they even bothered reintroducing her.
King Crow Jon Snow,
+1.
TBH reading comments since the reunion I’ve been sorta disappointed with the lack of interest in a Benjen return…
I know it’s been ages and recasting of the actor doesnt seem to have been in the news…and that’s strong reason to believe they’ve just left him like Gendry, …..but with Benjen being a Stark, Jon’s mentor as he arrived at CB & the fact that theyve left his story unfinished etc surely there’s strong reason to bring him back…??
Plus his mention in S5E10 before the stabbing, and the flashback including him (it could’ve been Ned’s older brother instead, no??) – could these mentions be a foreshadowing…
We can at least hope…
Lulus Mum,
Good to be back, Donkey Ears Waving! *waves towards London* May your ears proudly wear a headdress better than Mace’s!
I felt so too. Killed her off too easily.
But I think they had to reintroduce her for 2 reasons:
1) because Bran had given strong instructions for her to protect Rick, so they wanted to show us she was loyal to the very end.
An off-screen death wouldn’t have been doing justice to her relationship with Bran & Rick ever since she effectively saved their lives by helpin them escape WF. Though this wasn’t brilliant itself, but off-screen wouldve been a crime.
2) They had an excuse to magnify Ramsay’s character as being the indomitable villain who happens to have a passionate hatred for all our favourites for some reason. This I’ve had enough of!! Plz make him falter now!!!
King Crow Jon Snow,
They had to bring her back because she was with Rickon.
And there simply was no other way to go with her story. She was a captive, she tried to kill Ramsey and failed.
I disagree with people who say they shouldn’t have brought her back. Will I miss her character? Of course, I liked her, mostly because of the actor. Did I thought her death fitted the story and narrative? Yes.
Also disagree on Ramsey. I agree that sometimes it may look that he is ”invincibill” but not this scene. In my opinion he showed quite a bit of cunning.
He used the information he got from Theon and didn’t get fooled as Theon did in S2 by her charms.
He did play a bit with her but it fits his character.
Mihnea,
Agreed. As I said an off-screen death for her wouldve been a crime.
About Ramsay I dont think I was clear. Yes, it is in line with his character…I was saying I think maybe theyre magnifying this indomitable cunning of his, and before he dies in the great battle (hopefully), theyve gotta show a faltering side of his personality. Even Cersei got that (HS, WoS), and Tywin (when Cersei revealed her kids are inbred)…it’s about time Roose’s warning rings true …about being taken out back for pig’s feed … Of course the GN Conspiracy has this potential…but we only have 3 eps b4 the battle
King Crow Jon Snow,
Not reintroducing her and giving her an offscreen death wouldn’t have been good, but it would’ve been better than the stupid, predictable, throwaway death they gave her. That really disappointed me. I get they have so much to juggle and it’s a very hard task, but I felt like they could’ve done better than that. Maybe they shouldn’t have turned the Umber’s against the Stark’s in the first place. Anyway, her death is kind of symbolic of my problems with this season thus far.
King Crow Jon Snow,
There will be no long ”conspiracy”.
I don’t think they will do a long drawn ”conspiracy”(I even dislike this word, because I’m confident, even in the books there is no ”grand” conspiracy” only Mandarly has something that could be called that, some of the others have a simple plan:’ ‘try switching sides when you can” and I’m positive they don’t know about each others plans, they might guess/feel it but they can’t know for sure.) if they would do this they would need to focus on small, background characters we either barely saw or never saw at all!
Instead I think they’ll focus on Jon and Sansa, both are main characters trying to gather some support and their stories.
Mihnea,
kk. I just mentioned the Conspiracy as an example…I agree with you.
My point was actually about Ramsay showing signs of faltering before the crushing we hope is descending v soon. you know how Mel for the first time ever wasnt so cocky after Shireen…even the night raid…thats how I mean…
Just the way Sansa didn’t move at all until Jon was right in front of her, then that tiny little half gasp as she flung her arms around him…that said to me that right up until that moment, she hadn’t let herself believe that this would actually happen. She has been separated from all family for so long and whenever she thought she had a chance of being safe/happy it got brutally ripped away from her she couldn’t stand the thought of it happening again. Ugh of the whole episode it’s that tiny, desperate sound that still gets me.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
The guy was telling kal moro
Jorah did not tell daario that
Get over it
It wasn’t a mistake
I’m over it. It was just a point I was making to give example of what has bothered me this season as I have not liked it as much as you. Get over the fact that I have a different opinion and I’m not intentionally insulting the show. I still like plenty of aspects of it, but relative to the expectations they have set, I’ve been disappointed.
It made no sense. The conversation between Khal Moro and the random Dothraki was just covering their tracks. Did Daario know that Khal Moro wouldn’t care about spilling blood in Vaes Dothrak? The whole thing was just odd and emblematic of some of the problems of this season.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Oh my freaking God, do you NOT get what everyone has been trying to explain to you? Daario is not an omnipotent being, all he knows is that weapons are forbidden in Vaes Dothrak, which Jorah told him 10 minutes back. End of conversation. Just move on already.
As for Benjen, I’m almost sure that the figure on the horse in the trailer that knocks off the wight with fire is Benjen. I know Coldhands isnt Benjen in the books, but i feel like the show will merge their characters. Benjen could be some undead mysterious creature-thing. Hence no news of the actor returning or being spotted (as far as i know). I just hope he isnt mute like Gregor or anything.
EDIT: Actually now that i think about it, i think in the next episode we’ll find out a lot about the white walkers and their history. I strongly believe its not as simple as White Walkers being evil and others being good. White walker Benjen might be the perfect character to bring Bran over to that side and then we’ll have an interesting conflict. I strongly believe the War for the Dawn will end in a truce.
gnarlytarly,
Gentry
gnarlytarly,
Gentry. Def. gentry
Syed Kabir,
Again, you don’t understand the point I’m trying to make. It’s completely pointless and convoluted to have Daario smash the guys head only because he doesn’t understand the rules.
My question to you is, Jorah was right there when he started smashing the guys head in, so why didn’t he tell him what he was doing was pointless?
LatrineDiggerBrian,
It made sense to everyone but you
Anyway whatever
Suit yourself
Where’s Ghost!? What, Jon’s alive and now he’s unimportant? Why wasn’t he at the “Pink Letter” Feast? All hogwash! I need to see him eating Bolton throats, now.
Possibly. I suggested we consider what the character’s motivation might be. Everything that happens on the show or in the book happens because the writers want it to. It is more thought provoking to imagine this fantasy world is real and contemplate story and characters progression/regression/stagnation etc…
Possibly. I suggested we consider what the character’s motivation might be. Everything that happens on the show or in the book happens because the writers want it to. It is more thought provoking to imagine this fantasy world is real and contemplate story and characters progression/regression/stagnation etc…
They need to show us Ghost getting furious when he sees what the Boltons did to his brother Shaggy…Direwolves aren’t getting the attention they deserve so far. I hope theyre just storing it fo future.
King Crow Lord Snow,
They won’t show the Direwolfs for long. I have no doubt.
They aren’t vital to the story/plot the way the Dragons are for example.
And filming them is probaly a logistical nightmare. They have to film the scenes with a wolf in Canada, and then use CGI to make them bigger.
The Direwolfs need simply to much effort for too little pay-off.
It would be nice to see Ghost with Jon more – even just in the background in shadow (or not in the same shot as Jon – easy enough to do digitally that it’d be worth the $, I’d think.) I’ve always thought it was strange to have Ghost cooped up so much after Jon was LC. Canadian wolves are notoriously polite and easy to work with. A glimpse of him napping would show his presence without going all out.