Game of Thrones chaos in Seville, plus major Italica spoilers!

Photo: Instagram/Emilia_Clarke

Photo: Instagram/Emilia_Clarke

Since the stars of Game of Thrones arrived in the south of Spain earlier this week, it’s been like the second coming of the Beatles, with hordes of young people screaming outside the cast’s hotel. Not bad for a nerdy fantasy show! The locals of Seville are embracing the show’s stars, and photos and videos are pouring in.

Today, a handful of very young fans lucked out when Emilia Clarke, who had just left the set, hopped out of the car to pose with them. The actress shared the photo on Instagram, because everyone wasn’t already in love with her, no she had to lay this adorable moment on us.

More cast sightings below- some can be considered a potential spoiler, so proceed with caution!

Lena Headey was spotted by fans today:

Here’s Kit Harington receiving adoration at his hotel:

Iain Glen posed with fans in Seville yesterday:

And just to give you a taste of how wild it’s getting- Emilia’s arrival yesterday:

The arrival of Emilia Clarke. .. No words needed // La llegada de Emilia Clarke… No se necesitan palabras #gameofthrones #daenerys

A video posted by Yugi Draws – Inking Life (@yugidraws) on

And Iain Glen’s arrival back at the hotel. Nice to see Jorah getting some love!

Iain Glen getting back to his hotel last night. Credits to @aquete_ and thanks to @rocioruiz14 ??

A video posted by gotseason7_news (@gotseason7_news) on

Iain and Liam Cunningham outside the hotel yesterday:

Liam (Davos) and Iain (Jorah) talking to fans outside their hotel in Sevilla, Spain. Credits and thanks to @irenecuefe

A video posted by gotseason7_news (@gotseason7_news) on

That’s just a sampling of the attention the cast has received over the last couple days- visit Instagram and Twitter’s #gameofthrones tags and you’ll see that Seville has as much love for Game of Thrones as any city we’ve ever seen!


Now, moving into the latest Game of Thrones filming news! It does contain major spoilers and we do mean major- so stop here and do not pass the gif if you don’t want to know!

spoilers

Reliable WotW sources have confirmed that a scene in the works over the last couple days does line up with rumors that’ve been floating around the GoT fandom for the past few weeks. 

Our sources tell us Lena Headey, Peter Dinklage, Emilia Clarke, Kit Harington, Iain Glen, Conleth Hill, Nathalie Emmanuel, Anton Lesser, and Hafthor Bjornsson aka The Mountain all worked together today filming at Italica.

And what was such an incredibly broad group of characters doing together in one location-both Dany’s crew and Cersei’s gang? We have confirmed that the filmed scene involves characters bringing a wight into the Dragonpit as proof of the White Walker threat.

This won’t come as a shock to fans who follow fandom rumors but we view most spoilers with a suspicious eye until we have them confirmed for ourselves. And this one, we have confirmed.

Update: We’ve also learned that Rory McCann was filming today with everyone else. Even though both Clegane brothers were present, there was no fighting. Sorry, everyone, no Cleganebowl today!

424 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. They’re gonna capture the wight and its gonna be deactivated by Night King right before they can put it on display. And Cersei will be smug.

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    2. I wasn’t sure whether we’d actually get confirmation of this from filming sources (though McCann’s presence already suggested it pretty strongly).

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    3. Well that’s the leaks confirmed in my view. I am curious though how exactly they capture a white, I can hardly imagine one can be easily caught or happen to wander around alone.

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    4. Can we assume this is the same scene in which 17 characters got together? Or this one with less characters confirmed is to be a completely different one? Sorry if the question is stupid/already made btw

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    5. I know I’m sounding like a big old grumpy book purist here, but this season is just going to be laughably bad. Everything we know points towards it being so, D&D clearly haven’t learned a thing.

      Also didn’t Benjen JUST say that “The dead cannot pass the wall, thus I cannot pass” in 610? The most recent episode? Did they already forget about their own story again?

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    6. Kind of crazy that this is coming true. But considering Lord Mormont did this same tactic it makes sense. I think something similar will be done in the books as well. Jon knows the way people from the South look at the Night’s Watch and that no one believes in the treat of the WW. This is epic having all these POV characters in the same place is amazing.

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    7. dragonmcmx,

      White Walkers cannot pass the wall.
      And before criticizing something so harshly, shouldn’t it be better to wait until you actually watch the episodes? How else can Jon prove that the WW threat is real? He needs tangible proof, not just to convince Cersei, but the entire realm. FFS

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    8. So if the rumors of

      Jon’s wight hunt are true, I’m a bit worried about the other characters involved in the mission who don’t seem to be at the dragon pit. Since the wight hunt is probably (hopefully) a show only thing like Hardhome was, I see it as a possibility to eliminate some of the minor characters and tie up loose ends. Jon, Davos, Jorah and Sandor seem to make it out alive, Thoros is rumoured to be killed by an undead polar bear, but what about Beric, Gendry and Tormund? Do they return to Winterfell while Jon, Jorah and Sandor sail to King’s Landing with the wight? (By the way, how do Sandor and the BwB manage to join Jon’s team? Gendry is with Jon and he wasn’t too happy when Beric and Thoros sold him off to Melisandre in Season 3. And the Hound was famously loyal to the Lannisters the last time Jon met him. So why do Jon and Gendry even trust them?)

      The dragon pit scene is also a big hint at all the potential character death’s in season 7 since everyone who is not present could have been killed in the first 6 episodes (except for Bran, Arya, Sansa, Littlefinger and the minor Northern characters left behind at Winterfell as well as Sam and Gilly). Notably absent are:
      – Tormund
      – Gendry
      – Melisandre
      – Grey Worm
      – Yara (rumoured to be captured by Euron)
      – Ellaria & the Sand Snakes (rumoured to be captured and killed by Euron)
      – Olenna Tyrell (rumoured to commit suicide when the Lannisters sack High Garden)
      – Randyll Tarly (rumoured to be burned to death by Dany and her dragons)
      – Edmure Tully
      – Sweetrobin

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    9. Can I just say “Yayy” for the

      wight hunt!

      But also on a more scared note, I find the screaming mobile phone people pretty crazy.

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    10. dragonmcmx:
      Also didn’t Benjen JUST say that “The dead cannot pass the wall, thus I cannot pass” in 610? The most recent episode? Did they already forget about their own story again?

      I think he meant that the can’t cross under their own steam; if someone forcibly brings them through the Wall then they can pass, as Othor and Jafer Flowers did in season one.

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    11. The wight that attacked mormont was dragged past the wall by the Night’s Watch. Ghost came running back with a hand in his mouth, the crew went and found the bodies and brought them across. They didn’t get there on their own. We have yet to see one of the dead cross the wall on his own.

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    12. Joey,

      Well presumably this one is also getting dragged past the wall he is not passing by himself.I don’t know why people are so confused they established in season one that a wight can pass the wall if somebody brings them through it.

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    13. Steamboat Jimmy:
      Can wights go beyond the wall?? or is it only the white walkers that can’t??

      The first wight we saw, except for the prologue scene, was south of the Wall, in Castle Black.

      Jon Snowed:
      Well that’s the leaks confirmed in my view.I am curious though how exactly they capture a white, I can hardly imagine one can be easily caught or happen to wander around alone.

      It’s a wight, not a White Walker. I’d imagine capturing a wight is a much easier quest, relatively speaking.

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    14. There’s something really weird about that pic with Emilia and the kids…so she is supposed to be there favorite character, but what in the world are those children doing watching GoT?

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    15. Rhaenys Stark,

      He literally said “The dead”. I know I’m judging prematurely, but where did “hoping that it’ll be great” ever get me these past 2 seasons? D&D are clearly repeating old mistakes, as can be concluded by filming info alone.

      And the leaks, that are as good as confirmed now, only suggest that it’s gonna get even worse.

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    16. Oh ffs. I can only hope against hope that the wight thing isn’t nearly as ridiculous as it sounds. Gods.

      Iain is such a babe. ?

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    17. Myname:
      Yes, it’s confirmed!!

      But where are Liam, Nikolaj and Rory!?

      Right? They’re in Seville, so I assumed they’d be part of the BIG scene too. Where Jon goes, Davos goes. Ditto Jaime & Cersei. I also figured the Hound would be the muscle that controls the wight as the Kings and Queens talk. And, of course, I thought it would also be the perfect time to have the Hound see what has become of his brother. Don’t deny us this, D&D.

      Also, it is nice to have the dragonpit/wight scene confirmed. Now I don’t have to made to feel like an idiot for believing that part of the leak.

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    18. Luka Nieto: The first wight we saw, except for the prologue scene, was south of the Wall, in Castle Black.

      It’s a wight, not a White Walker. I’d imagine capturing a wight is a much easier quest, relatively speaking.

      Wouldn’t it be better for Team Jon/Dany to show Team Cersei a White Walker rather than a Wight?

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    19. TheKingWhoCares,

      That she’s not there doesn’t mean she’s necessarily dead. Dany was no into the Red religion in the books, she probably won’t be keen on having a red prettiest tag along with her. Especially after Davis tells her what Mel did.

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    20. The problem with this ……spoiler is not actually all this wight thing….In books Alison Thorne had bring a wight hand in KL when Tyrion was Hand of King …….The real problem is

      why JON wants to convince a person like Cersei…..Who can really trust her?….Cersei is the person who send his father to death…..her family organized the murder of his family……Sansa and Tyrion believe also that Cersei is a trusted person ????…..I just wondering

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    21. Black Raven,

      Yeah, I’d say we can assume that. We can’t know for sure, but I’d say it’s a pretty safe assumption. The characters Sue could confirm for today’s shoot are… the ones she could confirm! It doesn’t mean others weren’t in the same scene 😉

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    22. dragonmcmx,

      Hold on though Season 6 is generally regarded as the best of the series having four episodes ranked in the top five of all time according to IMDb, the producers also confirmed they were following GRRM story. I am not loving some of the leaks but we need to watch it first.

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    23. dragonmcmx:
      I know I’m sounding like a big old grumpy book purist here, but this season is just going to be laughably bad. Everything we know points towards it being so, D&D clearly haven’t learned a thing.

      Also didn’t Benjen JUST say that “The dead cannot pass the wall, thus I cannot pass” in 610? The most recent episode? Did they already forget about their own story again?

      Did you? Read the first book again, or watch the first season. Wights can be brought south of the Wall. They just can’t do it by themselves (because MAGIC.)

      Jon Snowed,

      We’ve yet to see a single frame from the season and he’s already decided it’s gonna be “laughably bad”, so I doubt you’ll be able to convince him to open his mind to any other possibility.

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    24. Luka Nieto,

      That’s what I’ve been wondering. My thought is that it’s not about convincing Cersei but about convincing Jaime so that he abandons Cersei and takes whatever is left of the Lannister army north. That’s why I think

      Jon and the Gang brought Briene south with them to help finally push Jaime away from Cersei that combine with the Wight should finally do it.

      This would also explain why the changes Jaime’s storyline from the books so that he is still loyal to Cersei. So, when he finally joins Team Dany/Jon his bandonment of Cersei will be that much more dramatic.

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    25. Black Raven:
      Can we assume this is the same scene in which 17 characters got together? Or this one with less characters confirmed is to be a completely different one? Sorry if the question is stupid/already made btw

      Caw – Caw !! This is the real Black Raven 😉

      Who is this using my username? Very naughty of you 😀

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    26. BlueRoseofWinterfell,

      Tyrion loves Cersei. He knows her since he was a baby and treated him so nicely.
      This maybe awkward but i think this is happening just to keep Cersei as part of big game, they postpone Jaime leaving her and go with Brienne (like in the books) and now they want to include her even like this with WW.
      Everyone loves Lena, but the story has been butchered with the persistence of the show to make Cersei less evil and trying to keep her around with any cost. Tyrion’s and Jaime’s feelings about her in the last books are never adressed in the show, and so they miss big part of their story.

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    27. BlueRoseofWinterfell,

      Well this is why we need to watch the season.It will become clear in time but apparently Dany hasn’t been able to defeat Cersei yet so considering there is a literal apocalypse coming Jon and others might think even a person like Cersei cares about that.Isn’t this what peope have been saying since the story started?That the games for the throne don’t matter when there is a bigger danger coming for them all?Well that’s what Jon is doing.Even though Jon and the others don’t trust her they trust her need to survive and they can’t loose time in dynastic wars when humanity is at risk.We will see how different kinds of people react to a supernatural scenario.Weren’t people saying it would be so clear cut if they finish the politics arc first and only the good guys fight the ww in the final season.Well there you go this is messy not predictable.

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    28. I really can’t understand some people’s need to whine in every possible site there is when they don’t like something in GOT. Can these people be considered fans, when they keep hating on everything? Probably not. So why don’t they start watching something else, I wonder? Hmm…

      I like this plot development A LOT. And the dragonpit scenes are going to be some of the best of the show, I’m certain. So many characters, so much acting talent accumulated in one place, so many possibilities!

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    29. moiaf:
      Luka Nieto,

      That’s what I’ve been wondering. My thought is that it’s not about convincing Cersei but about convincing Jaime so that he abandons Cersei and takes whatever is left of the Lannister army north. That’s why I think Jon and the Gangbrought Briene south with them to help finally push Jaime away from Cersei that combine with the Wight should finally do it.

      This would also explain why the changes Jaime’s storyline from the books so that he is still loyal to Cersei. So, when he finally joins Team Dany/Jon his bandonment of Cersei will be that much more dramatic.

      This would make a lot of sense. 🙂

      I am looking forward to this scene – having so many characters from so many different story arcs in the same place is going to be amazing!

      The history between some of these characters is amazing – the Mountain killed Daenerys’s niece and nephew (who were also Jon’s half-brother and sister); Cersei had Ned arrested; the last time Cersei saw Tyrion, he was being sentenced to death after his trial by combat loss following the murder of her son; Jon saved the life of Jorah’s father and later avenged his death………..

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    30. Alba Stark,

      Tyrion knows Cersei is completely unreasonable, however, he also knows that Jaime can be convinced. I’m not sure Tyrion knows about Jaime and Brienne but Bronn does and so maybe he gets word to Tyrion. I’m sure Tyrion will try to reach out to Bronn at some point.

      The dynamics in the Dragonpit should most definitely be interesting, a lot of history and complexity there.

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    31. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      This is really no different from Lord Commander Mormont’s plan in the books to take the wight hand to King’s Landing as proof. It’s just on a much larger scale. Did you also have a problem with the book plot?

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    32. Rhaenys Stark,

      People just like to whine.It’s kind of ridiculous considering we haven’t seen a single minute of the season yet but the things I have seen these weeks lol.Sometimes I wonder if peope have reading comprehension problems or have we been watching the same show or do they understand how a drama show works??But whatever just join me in being exited for season seven.It’s going to be great.

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    33. She is the Queen , she is the one who makes decisions not Jaime, Jaime can only command Lannister`s army……If they want to convince one person this is Cersei an untrust person…..who can always use any oppurtiny…. as Littlefinger said Chaos is the ladder and Cersei maybe will use it….

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    34. Can these people be considered fans, when they keep hating on everything? Probably not. So why don’t they start watching something else, I wonder? Hmm…

      I really despise remarks like this.

      So some people have a different, more critical opinion on an upcoming plot and you think that means they can’t be considered fans of the show?

      That’s a really immature and insulting point of view.

      It’s like fans of a sports team who declare that other fans aren’t real fans if they don’t fawn over the coach or the star player to an acceptable level.

      People love this show. And some people dislike this possible plot development.

      They have every right to feel that way.

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    35. Young Dragon,

      Not really. The wight hand pretty much landed in Mormont’s lap. He just sent it to King’s Landing since it was already available, in a vain attempt convince them of the impending threat.

      For our protagonists

      to conclude that specifically embarking on a suicide mission all the way up north to catch a wight, bring it all the way back down south and present it before the murderous, uncompromising evil queen in the hope that she finally sees the light, is just junk writing in my opinion.

      Obviously I can’t say conclusively that it’ll be terrible, since I haven’t seen it yet. But I really don’t like the look of what’s on the cards. And I’m disappointed to hear that that appears to be the way they’re going.

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    36. Black Raven: Caw – Caw !! This is the real Black Raven ?

      Who is this using my username? Very naughty of you?

      Lol I’ve used this username mostly in Spanish forums like lossietereinos. I didn’t know about you using it as well ?? I’m pretty sure we can share or I’ll use another one no prob

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    37. Jack Bauer 24,

      There are fewer White Walkers, and superhuman monsters are probably harder to keep under control as prisoners than animate dead bodies are. The latter are only as strong as any other dead bodies in the same stage of decay.

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    38. Finally! The wight in KL confirmed. This also means that Cersei

      is gonna linger on like a bad smell till Season 8. Sigh…….

      Rhaenys Stark: I really can’t understand some people’s need to whine in every possible site there is when they don’t like something in GOT.

      They need to make sure, absolutely certain, that not a single person anywhere misses their unhappiness with the show. Hey, if it were me, I’d have stopped watching a show I don’t like, a loooong while ago. I’ve done that with many shows so far.

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    39. BlueRoseofWinterfell,

      Practicality. Better they all fight together against the White Walkers than diminish their own numbers fighting each other before the White Walkers even get there. They all think/hope she’s at least sane enough to see that.

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    40. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      Yeah because engaging in a war that will divide the kingdoms in half and kill hundreds of thousands of soldiers and civilians is much smarter. Ever heard of “Give peace a chance”? Especially when you’re facing the apocalypse. Yes, even if your human adversary is a madman. Not even Tyrion would imagine that Cersei would act so much against her self-interest. And it IS against her self-interest. Uniting the kingdoms against the White Walkers is Jon’s job. He has to try.

      But sure. It’s “jumping the shark.”

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    41. Pigeon: Oh ffs. I can only hope against hope that the wight thing isn’t nearly as ridiculous as it sounds. Gods.

      I know. But this show (and it seems, the books) does have zombies, white walkers, bringing the dead to life, shadow babies, “warging”, fireproofness, so it’s not at all out of the realm of possibilities! 🙂

      Pigeon: I wish Cersei would take a long walk off a short pier. She has started to bore me.

      Agree so much with this!

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    42. Luka Nieto,

      Not even Tyrion would imagine that Cersei would act so much against her self-interest.

      A sober Tyrion might imagine it. Drunk Tyrion was given a mini-clinic in self-interest by the Masters in Essos.

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    43. I don’t have any issue with the spoilers as long as the context is appropriate and entertaining.
      If it had been spoiled that Renly is going to be killed by a shadow demon that came out of a red priestess private bits, we all would’ve been “wtf is this nonesense?”
      I’m sure there is a proper reason

      why Dany hasn’t defeated Cersei. Same for Varys and Tyrion being okay with this. like others suggested, maybe it’s Jamie they are there for.
      Jon hunting for white is in line with his action in Hardhome. Whatever to make the rest of lords believe.

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    44. Steamboat Jimmy:
      Can wights go beyond the wall?? or is it only the white walkers that can’t??

      Look at The Wall as a sort of magical force field preventing wights from passing through, but not over or around possibly. Due to plot the Others (White Walkers) apparently are unable to go south of if it in any fashion, unless they’ve just been unwilling to find other means. Events would seem to indicate that wights can exist south of it though… or be raised from bodies already across and close by. In A Game of Thrones Othor was ‘turned’ after his dead body was brought through and he attacked Mormont. People are writing that a “wight was drug through” but that isn’t accurate. Othor was a dead husk when he was brought through and then later turned because his body wasn’t burnt right away – Mormont wanted Aemon to examine the bodies further. An assumption can be made that the NK was close enough to Castle Black for his ability to raise a wight to work.

      It’s very possible that the range of the magic from the NK animating the wights is also limited. The hand of Othor was brought to King’s Landing but because it had been so long it had decayed badly. One can surmise then that the NK may need to be within a certain distance for a wight to ‘survive.’ That could also say with high probability that if the NK is destroyed the magic animating the wights will go immediately as well. So, in a nutshell, THAT is how the living can win the war against them.

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    45. BlueRoseofWinterfell,

      Well for Jon, sure the Lannisters have caused the Starks a lot harm, but I mean so have the Targaryens that he doesn’t know he’s related to. Daenerys’s father killed Jon’s grandfather and uncle, and her brother “kidnapped and raped” Jon’s “aunt”. Plus it was Tywin and Joffrey that caused the most harm to his family not Cersei. Even Jaime has caused more harm to them by throwing Bran out that window. She was actually wisely against Ned’s execution, that was all Joffrey. Yeah she was a bit harsh with Sansa but considering how she dealt with Margaery I’d say she had it easy. Cersei does horrific things to her enemies but so does Daenerys. And remember that Jon made ally with Wildlings, people known to be murderers, rapists, and cannibals, and who had been enemies of the Night’s Watch and Westeros in general for thousands of years, and who’s people killed some of his friends, all to get soldiers on his side against the White Walkers. It’s very Jon like to try and turn his enemies into friends.

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    46. Jack Bauer 24: There’s something really weird about that pic with Emilia and the kids…so she is supposed to be there favorite character, but what in the world are those children doing watching GoT?

      Did you see what Emilia wrote on her instagram? That should answer your question as to whether those children watch GoT.

      “And yes I’m certain this was a ploy by some cunning mums and dad who watch”

      Abbie: If it had been spoiled that Renly is going to be killed by a shadow demon that came out of a red priestess private bits, we all would’ve been “wtf is this nonesense?”

      In truth, I’m still scratching my head about the shadow baby! 😉 For me, that was just a tad too far, but other storylines in the show made up for it!

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    47. Anon,

      Maybe it comes from the books? Oh no… of course Saint George would never write such a thing.

      I honestly wonder why some people seek out spoilers, because they always seem to moan and whine about them. The spoilers that came out for both Hardhome and BotB were criticised by the same people who moaned that they sounded stupid, and were shark-jumping moments. Will these events in Season 7 be as amazing as those events? Who knows, but one thing is for sure; D&D have an incredible record at proving people wrong who criticise the events in spoilers such as these

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    48. Knight of the Walkers: I honestly wonder why some people seek out spoilers, because they always seem to moan and whine about them. The spoilers that came out for both Hardhome and BotB were criticised by the same people who moaned that they sounded stupid, and were shark-jumping moments.

      Yeah, when it was leaked that Hardhome would involve a wight waterfall, and a year later that the Battle of the Bastards would involve a wall of bodies, I also thought it sounded pretty stupid. When I saw both of those scenes I thought it was amazing.

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    49. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      Of course they have the right to hate this plot development. I never said otherwise. Constructive criticism is always welcome. For example, S6 was my favorite although I hated 1-2 plot developments. There are some people though that keep hating on everything, keep saying the show is ridiculously bad in its entirety etc. This is the kind of people I mean and I keep noticing a continuous pattern of spiteful remarks by them. I just don’t get it- if they hate, say, 90% of something, in this case, a show, why do they keep watching? And ruin others’ people enjoyment in the meantime? Genuinely curious.

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    50. Knight of the Walkers,

      …kay. I know in books they catch a wight for some reason. In the show I think they catch a wight as proof, which I think is a very bad idea!!!!

      I’m just gonna quote Varys here:

      “Proof? Will there be a trial?”

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    51. I am happy, however, that The Hound will meet the woman who has kicked fire’s butt! Burned meets Unburned simply HAD to happen!

      I know I’m going to be rolling my eyes when the wight catching fiasco goes down, though.

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    52. dragonmcmx,

      Oh no! Dragonmcmx didn’t get enough attention for his permanent whining on reddit and now he’s trolling WotW… seven hells, please save at least this place from that plague of denial and mimimi… 🙁

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    53. Abbie:
      I don’t have any issue with the spoilers as long as the context is appropriate and entertaining.
      If it had been spoiled that Renly is going to be killed by a shadow demon that came out of a red priestess private bits, we all would’ve been “wtf is this nonesense?”
      I’m sure there is a proper reason why Dany hasn’t defeated Cersei. Same for Varys and Tyrion being okay with this. like others suggested, maybe it’s Jamie they are there for.

      Jon hunting for white is in line with his action in Hardhome. Whatever to make the rest of lords believe.

      I have to say, when I first read about

      this wight capture I had a bit of a wtf reaction. Looking at it logically, however, Jon and those fighting with him have to find a way to prove to the rest of Westeros that the White Walkers are back and are a credible threat to all of them. The best way to do so is to actually show them their true enemy. Actually seeing a wight makes it so much harder for people to deny their existence.

      It is in line with Hardhome, I agree; Jon went there to speak to people that the NW had been fighting for thousands of years to ask them to fight their common enemy alongside him. It makes sense that he would try to convince others of the approaching danger.

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    54. the wights that attacked joer werent wights when they came through the wall.They were brought through as dead nw men. they reanimated inside castle black

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    55. Jenny,

      The bodies that crossed the wall were not wights when they crossed the wall. Obviously the magic of the WWs must have touched them, but they did not rise as wights until after they had crossed the wall.

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    56. Clob,

      Mormont wanted Aemon to examine the bodies further.

      There were two bodies brought back through the wall. Only one woke up and attacked Mormont.

      I’m still wondering why the other didn’t wake up.

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    57. We have confirmed that the filmed scene involves characters bringing a wight into the Dragonpit as proof of the White Walker threat.

      Fingers crossed for Jim Broadbent playing the wight.

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    58. Darkstar,

      Darkstar,

      In the books Catelyn, Sansa and Tyrion clearly hate Cersei and not just Lannisters in general. Let’s not paint her innocent. She wants Sansa dead, she wants Tyrion dead, she wants Arya (in the show) dead, she wants Jon(in the books) dead…for no obvious reason.
      She also just burned alive many innocent people, Jaime is staying with her is already too much but lets say he stays for other reasons. Jon trying to parlay with a mass murderer, doesn’t make sense. Cersei didn’t fought a war. What she did was more evil than the red wedding. Everyone must know from Ollena what happened.
      I understand may the outcome will show again how stupid-evil she is..but they drag it just to have her there… if Dany can’t win this war and take her out of the Iron Throne, is because Jaime fights her wars. Cersei isn’t useful to anyone for the great war.

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    59. dragonmcmx,

      I’m with you. Now that the leaks have been confirmed, I’m going to sit out the rest of the series as that means the stupid Twihard romance is likely true as well. The wight thing is just stupid beyond belief and goes against everything we were told in the books. I get that the series and books are different but come on – people watched the series because it wasn’t the usual LOTR drivel. Ever since Martin stopped working on the show – you can really see the decline in writing.

      So disappointed in D&D and Martin if he’s sanctioned this crap. I know it’s hard for some to understand but if you’ve read the books – it was wonderful to find an author that wasn’t afraid to turn the usual fantasy and romance trope on it’s head and show the Middle Ages for what it truly was.

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    60. Danys crew and cerseis crew, since when are Jon DAvos and co. in danys crew… they are their own team, just like Euron is is own team.

      The fact that these supposed “rumours” seem to be true:/… lots of it just sounds stupid.

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    61. George has already said he will write for the show again once he finishes Winds of Winter. Also remember that the showrunners are following an outline that GRRM gave them so please stop the over the top criticism even if some of the plot points sound bad.

        Quote  Reply

    62. Luka Nieto,

      The writers can write whatever they choose. They can resolve the story any way they wish.

      They could have Cersei murdered. They could have her resoundingly defeated on the battlefield in a matter of weeks. They could have Jaime depose her and take the Lannister forces north.

      You’re speaking as if this is the only possible resolution, and the only logical recourse that our protagonists could resort to.

      Yet if that turns out to be the case then it is only because the writers made it so.

      There are literally no limits to what the writers could have chosen to do. And they have chosen this, frankly, bizarre turn of events.

      To have Jon Snow traveling the length and breadth of the Seven Kingdoms on wight-hunting expeditions and for show-and-tell at the dragonpit just sounds like nonsense to me.

      And if, as may turn out to be the case, this dragonpit scene descends into carnage with Cersei being killed/deposed regardless (which they could have chosen to do in myriad ways), then it just renders this plot device even more unnecessary.

      I’ve already said that I can’t pass conclusive judgment until I’ve seen the end product, obviously; but just from a logical and storytelling point of view, and in the context of the show and characterizations so far, it just seems like a really poor choice of direction as far as I’m concerned.

        Quote  Reply

    63. A lot of these comments have it wrong. The bodies in book 1/season 1 were wights before they were brought through the Wall. Remember, Sam noticed they weren’t decomposing, hence they were brought back to be examined. They were already wights, but were “playing dead.” Just like the dead Wildling girl from the opening scene, who’s pinned against the tree then walking around not long after.

        Quote  Reply

    64. Jpatch,

      And in the books they noticed the blue eyes, too, not just the lack of decomposing smell. They were already wights. If the White Walkers had the ability to reanimate corpses across the Wall, well, the magic of the Wall would be pretty shitty.

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    65. Could the wight at the Dragonpit scene, by any chance, be D&D playing a trick on us? I mean, like “Since we’re all here and we know people out there are leaking scenes, let’s just do one scene from those fake spoilers and have some fun setting the fandom on fire”?

        Quote  Reply

    66. Haven’t posted here in a long time, but reading this the thought occurred to me that the wight could potentially be a known character. If you were really trying to convince people that wights and Walkers are real, wouldn’t having an undead wight that they’d recognize be the best way to do it?

        Quote  Reply

    67. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      “For our protagonists to conclude that specifically embarking on a suicide mission all the way up north to catch a wight, bring it all the way back down south and present it before the murderous, uncompromising evil queen in the hope that she finally sees the light, is just junk writing in my opinion.”

      Yes, that’t the main thing that bothers me too. You know that I was in denial of this mission, cause it looked for me as a filler and still does frankly speaking: KL story has every element to be wrapped without a white… But well, it will trim off some excessive characters

      like Beric Dondarion and Thoros of Myr

      and give us some stunning visuals, so I don’t mind, if a reasonable motivation is provided.
      But “convincing Cersey” is not a reasonable motivation.
      We know too much about her – Tyrion should know too much about her. She is not interested in survival, she is interested in vengeance and vengeance alone. She would be happy to burn the entire Westeros, and if she can’t afford that, she would be even happier to freeze it.

      Of course, she will be pregnant according to the leak and that can be a bit of a game-changer but not for long.

      One way or another, Cersei is not the person to be reasoned with, and I am still in denial that our protagonists could be forced to count on that.

      But maybe there can be another explanation? What if all this mission is initiated by Cersei? Dany will lose the battle apparently, but it’s legit to assume that Cersei’s army will suffer major losses too and she won’t be in the position to oust Dany from Dragonstone or to cause major problems to Jon and his allies in the Vale and the Riverlands. So, Cersei may pretend to agree on some compromise and then start a game of “go god-knows-where, bring god-knows-what”. She might win time this way, her rivals may (and most probably) will suffer losses, and if they manage to make it through alive and bring a wight, she will prepare one or two surprises for the Dragonpit.

      Meanwhile, Jon and the rest of the Team-Targarian-United may accept this game to use the arena of the Dragonpit for their own PR. Hardly they will count on reasoning Cersei, her soldiers or even Jamie may take things seriously when presented a hard evidence. And I still hope that the Team-Targarian-United will be having a few surprises for Cersei too.

      So, maybe I am just trying to appease myself, but I could probably accept such motivations (at least until the show airs and delivers something better).

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    68. Kathy,

      If Jon and Dany get together in the show, I can guarantee you it will happen in the books too. The House of the Undying included the blue rose at the wall(Jon) in the “bride of fire” prophecy. Drogo and Euron were the other two visions in that set.

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    69. Judging by the photos, Spain’s very high unemployment rate could be easily halved simply by officially categorizing the huge number of GOT fans as temp workers.

      And I fully expect PM Mariano Rajoy Brey to steal that idea by morning at the latest.

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    70. Concerning the Wight and how it cannot pass the wall and it would decompose like the hand, two remedies for both these…Dany flies the Wight above the wall and all the way to Kings Landing.

        Quote  Reply

    71. Black Raven: Lol I’ve used this username mostly in Spanish forums like lossietereinos. I didn’t know about you using it as well I’m pretty sure we can share or I’ll use another one no prob

      Maybe you could be “Cuervo Negro” here then?

      As for

      wight-catching

      I’m reserving judgement until I see it on screen. I know we’ve been saying it for years, but: the books are the books and the show is the show. Let the show BE the show. I can’t wait to see some of these interactions whether GRRM intended them to happen or not.

      Thanks again for the awesome reporting, Gang!

        Quote  Reply

    72. I don’t really understand why people think the wight-hunt is such a ridiculous idea (well I’m still trying to figure out the logistics of it, but I’m sure that’ll be explained), that said I feel like its the most logical thing to do in these circumstances. Jon is surrounded by people who can’t even conceive of WW and wights and all the other stuff beyond the wall. No one takes the night’s watch seriously or believe the stories about the others. While Dany may be more accommodating than Cersei, she’ll probably still require some proof before committing her men to the cause. This plan is meant to shock all of the kingdom into action, to unite everyone against the real war.

      As far as Jon being naive for trusting Cersei, like many others have said, he’s not trusting her, he’s trusting her to act in her best interest. If the WW get beyond the wall Cersei won’t have a throne, or a kingdom to rule.

      The only thing that’s confusing to me is how they plan to go about catching this wight. Like what is the game plan. I don’t think we’ve seen a wight wandering about by itself, they’re usually with the WW army.

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    73. Lisa0527,

      That’s a very interesting thought, and the first person that comes to my mind is Hodor, and I pray that the Old Gods won’t let them go there as that would be just too sad.

      I’d love to hear who you think it might/could/should be. 😉

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    74. Catspaw Assassin,

      I’m not sure exactly who it would be. Waymar Royce becomes a wight in the books, but I can’t remember if he does in the show. As a noble he might be recognizable. It’s interesting that both Jon and Alliser Thorne both make comments (in the books) that suggest that the wights retain some of their former identity and remember at least something from their former lives. So if it’s a known character that could add an interesting element to it. I hope it’s a wight with a Cersei problem.

        Quote  Reply

    75. Inga,

      You say “we know” Cersei and her motivations but how would Jon, Dany etc know? Cersei isn’t interested in survival any more especially now that all of her children are gone, but how would Jon or anyone else know that? None of these characters have had consistent contact with her. Tyrion has been gone from KL for a long time, so even though he knows she can’t be trusted, he’d think even Cersei can be reasoned with when she’s also in danger. Neither Jon nor Dany are familiar with Cersei or her motivations (which have changed a lot over the course of the series). Cersei is clearly interested enough in keeping the throne, and ruling the 7 Kingdoms even if only to exact vengeance, so why shouldn’t they assume that she wouldn’t want it overrun by ice zombies?

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    76. Lisa0527:
      Haven’t posted here in a long time, but reading this the thought occurred to me that the wight could potentially be a known character. If you were really trying to convince people that wights and Walkers are real, wouldn’t having an undead wight that they’d recognize be the best way to do it?

      Yes, it’ll be Sansa. Not only is she one of the few left up north, but Cersei is very familiar with her, so it would definitely have an impact. Then she’ll be returned and become the Night’s Queen.

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    77. My first reaction to learning of the

      “hunt” was to question how they could do this convincingly. Then, I realized that if it’s in Episode 6, the director is to be Alan Taylor. Taylor has directed 6 GoT episodes, including the remarkable “Baelor.” He has filmed two episodes having scenes in Iceland (“Prince of Winterfell” and “Valar Morghulis”). Of particular note is that he has “worked” with wights (remember in VM when Sam was hiding behind a rock as they walked by?). “Valar Morghulis” won the 2012 Emmy for Best Visual Effects.

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    78. WTF? They let their little children watch Game of Thrones?!
      And to the subject:
      I wonder how they catched a wight, especially since they are probably always near the White Walkers/the Night King.

        Quote  Reply

    79. keltia:
      My first reaction to learning of the “hunt” was to question how they could do this convincingly.Then, I realized that if it’s in Episode 6, the director is to be Alan Taylor.Taylor has directed 6 GoT episodes, including the remarkable “Baelor.”He has filmed two episodes having scenes in Iceland (“Prince of Winterfell” and “Valar Morghulis”).Of particular note is that he has “worked” with wights (remember when Sam was hiding behind a rock as they walked by?) and that “Valar Morghulis” won the 2012 Emmy for Best Visual Effects.

      How exciting can it be to capture a Wight?

        Quote  Reply

    80. Lora,

      I feel the same really. I’d love to know how all the people complaining about the idea of capturing a wight think that Jon could convince the Westerosi of their existence, if not by capturing a wight. Of all the people saying it’s a bad idea, none I have seen propose an alternative that they feel would be a good idea.

      I’m open to suggestions but I can’t think of another way. So why is it unpopular?

      It strikes me that many fans who like reading spoilers might be better off not bothering and waiting til the show airs, if all spoilers do is make them feel so negatively, which is what seems so often to be the case.

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    81. Luka Nieto,

      THANK YOU. I’m beyond the point of arguing why risking a handful of lives to set the realm’s priorities straight is a more intelligent tactic than politely requesting that Dany and the Lannisters hit the pause button on a war that’s going to reduce the army of the living by thousands. I’ve yet to see a single poster who thinks this is a dumb plan come up with a sensible alternative.

      Trust Cersei? Please, in Hardhome, Jon and Tormund were prepared to ally themselves with cannibals. Survival, period. If bringing a live wight to King’s Landing isn’t enough to set Cersei on course, she’s not mad, she’s bordering on suicidal. We’re talking about self-preservation here, and nobody, not Jon, not Tyrion, not even the viewers would ever take Cersei as someone who lacked that instinct. She just blew up a sept to save her own skin. The idea that any of these characters should expect her to choose an apocalyptic death over forming an alliance once she knows what’s coming for her is ridiculous.

        Quote  Reply

    82. Albba,

      They turned him into the most entertaining character on the show, and perhaps my favorite character in the tv series. In my view, show Hound is an improvement over book Sandor.

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    83. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man: I really despise remarks like this.

      So some people have a different, more critical opinion on an upcoming plot and you think that means they can’t be considered fans of the show?

      That’s a really immature and insulting point of view.

      It’s like fans of a sports team who declare that other fans aren’t real fans if they don’t fawn over the coach or the star player to an acceptable level.

      People love this show. And some people dislike this possible plot development.

      They have every right to feel that way.

      Absolutely agree. There should be no litmus test for what makes somebody a ‘true fan.’ If a person considers himself or herself a GoT fan, then they are, until they decide that they cannot enjoy any aspect of it anymore. Generally liking a TV show, movie franchise, book series or whatever doesn’t mean having to abandon all of one’s capacities for critical thinking.

      Comparing and contrasting what we like and don’t like about the show stimulates interesting discussion; I don’t feel like I’m learning anything from posts that are all ‘rah-rah-GoT, D&D can do no wrong.’ And I detest any effort to turn the fandom into a closed, exclusive club. To this reader at least, every one of us brings a valid and valuable point of view to share. Different strokes for different folks!

        Quote  Reply

    84. Halfman,

      They haven’t suggested any other because there is none. From what I’ve seen they ones that have problem don’t view Cersei as an asset. And they are not wrong, Cersei don’t have much to offer in the war against walkers. Maybe that narrative changes next season or maybe they simply aren’t just there to convince Cersei.
      That being said, I find the constant complaining quite annoying.

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    85. I read all of the spoilers once. I remember thinking a lot of it sounded odd. However, it was written in such a manner that there was no context. Much of the spoilers for season 6 were similar, especially the final 2 episodes. Yet the finished product was spectacular, IMO. The acting/directing/music have a way of elevating a scene or episode/s beyond what simply reading a power point of all of the plots written down second hand would provide.

      So while a few things left me scratching my head, I’m willing to wait before judging. For those who disliked season 6, it’s understandable how they would not be in the mood to wait and see. If they didn’t at least enjoy the spectacle of that season, then there is likely no way they can ever enjoy the show again.

        Quote  Reply

    86. I guess Iceland shooting will be a wight mission. They said it’s for 6 main characters. We saw Jon and Jorah departing with Gendry somewhere. Damn, it fits.

      It’s suicide mission to convince Cersei or Dany. Dany probably believes it since she sent Jorah or he went there. It must be to convince Jaime. Question where are Thoros, Beric and Tormund with Gendry.

        Quote  Reply

    87. Lora,

      Well, I have always thought that making a twist out of something the audience knows, but the characters don’t is a bit cheesy. But on the other hand, I can agree that Cersei’s motivations are still obscure in the show. The line revealing them (“but now I seek vengeance” Ep 608) was delivered by the actress who played Cersei, not by Cersey herself. Casual viewers hardly took that into consideration, even some nerds missed it as it seems and in general that line was more a foreshadowing, than a revelation. Moreover,

      if Cersei is indeed pregnant, as the leak claims, and that becomes known to the Team-Targarian-United (which is rather possible, if Tyrion meets Jaime in Ep 5), Jon, Dany, and even Tyrion will have a motivation to think that Cersei will be ready to do anything to promote life and future for her unborn child.

      So, yes I can agree that both the protagonists and the audience can misread Cersei’s true motives and then get a major shock, when she decided to stab them them in the back (figuratively or literally).

        Quote  Reply

    88. Geralt of Rivia,

      Jorah grew up in the North, and he may have heard stories of the White Walkers. Lyanna Mormont certainly didn’t need a lot of convincing. He may have an easier time believing in their existence than Danerys.

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    89. elybe,

      I’ve yet to see a single poster who thinks this is a dumb plan come up with a sensible alternative.

      What I find funny is that up until this plot was revealed, everybody was perfectly happy to accept that Daenerys and her vast army and allies would defeat Cersei and she would go mad / be killed by Jaime / go down in flames as she or Drogon torched the Red Keep / etc etc etc.

      Dany would face a few hurdles along the way (e.g. Euron) but she would be victorious and would then turn her attention north, and that was considered a perfectly acceptable and plausible course of events.

      And yet ever since this latest plot development has been revealed, we suddenly have a narrative among some fans that proving to Cersei that the White Walkers exist and forming an alliance is the only available option that our protagonists have. That it’s the only logical direction for the plot to take.

      Any thoughts of Daenerys defeating Cersei relatively comfortably, or Cersei going mad and destroying her own reign, or her being killed by Jaime/Arya/Faceless Men/etc. have all suddenly gone out of the window. And this plot is depicted as the only logical development.

      I’m sorry, but it just reeks of people bending over backwards to justify the direction the writers have chosen.

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    90. The Golden Hand:
      Anyone else ever wonder why they are called “White Walkers” instead of “Wight Walkers”?

      It’s less confusing in the books, where the White Walkers are called the Others and the undead are called wights, like the Barrow-Wights in LotR. (Originally in English the word ‘wight’ simply meant ‘person,’ ‘being’ – not necessarily anything occult.)

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    91. Jack Bauer 24:
      So are Arya and Sansa mainly sidelined this season?

      It’s just that they are probably filming all their scenes in Northern Ireland locations and particularly inside the Titanic studios. So we won’t get many spoilers from that storyline, I imagine. Doesn’t mean it won’t be a large storyline.

        Quote  Reply

    92. Maggie,

      I’m not painting Cersei as innocent, she’s a pretty terrible person, but that doesn’t make everyone that opposes her a good person, especially Daenerys, she’s just as ruthless when it comes to dealing with her enemies. Cersei burned those she considered her enemies at the Great Sept of Baelor and Dany burned those she considered her enemies at the Temple of the Dosh Khaleen. And in the books Dany also hates the Starks. But this the show and everything is different. The wildlings have viscously killed random innocent people, the Hound did some pretty bad things for the Lannisters, Davos was an illegal smuggler, and Brienne killed Stark soldiers, this is not the time to dig into people’s moral code, its all about the survival of the human race. And Cersei is in control of the armies of the Westerlands and presumably the Crownlands, Jaime is just her military commander

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    93. If it is indeed true that Team Jon decides that it’s necessary to bring a still-wriggling wight to KL for show & tell, wouldn’t the safer approach be to pick up a freshly deceased corpse just south of the Wall, bind it securely, and then carry it through the Wall and wait however long it takes for its eyes to turn blue? Rather than ranging around the North hoping to find a straggling wight and cut it off from the herd, so to speak? (If the latter, they’d be foolish not to put Ghost to work; that is how wolf packs hunt, after all.)

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    94. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      Because it’s not our story to tell.I didnt sign up to see my vision of the story come to life I signed up to follow somebody’s else so it doesn’t matter what I want to happen only that the story is good.I trust the people telling the story because they haven’t let me down yet.What peope are saying is that considering that Dany isn’t able to defeat Cersei for whatever reasons which I’m sure will be clear in season 7 this development makes sense and is in line with the characters we know.That’s it.They could have chosen for Dany to roll into Westeros,defeat Cersei and take the Iron Throne but that’s not the story they want to tell.And let’s not act like people haven’t been complaining about Dany having it easy for years.Well then this makes things more interesting for a lot of characters.Nobody is bending over anything.

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    95. Halfman,

      IMO, people don’t like the idea of the Wight PR campaign, because it’s not how convincing works. Let’s think it through: how many people are supposed to see that goddamned wight in the arena? Some 20 thousands, if the arena is full, or several hundreds, if Cersei comes only with her entourage and soldiers. And how are they going to spread the message afterwards? Tell all and everybody? But someone will always be in denial and say that there was some kind of a trick. People believe what they want to believe and tend to deny anything that fails to fit into their own beliefs, wishes, or agendas. Yes, sometimes seeing can make the change, but in general decision making is based on the information from “trusted sources”, and if Jon is not accepted as a “trusted source”, he won’t be able to win the war.

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    96. God, I wish the ridiculous wight hunt was my biggest issue with the upcoming season.
      Can’t believe it’s even the same show anymore.

        Quote  Reply

    97. Abbie,

      There are at least two solutions for the Cersei’s problem: public revolt and Faceless Men. Any of them can be used, and any of them would be better than trying reasoning with her.

        Quote  Reply

    98. Kosten,

      Did you enjoy season 6? I’m just trying to get a read on the opinions of those who are trashing the outline of season 7 without seeing the finished product. It makes more sense to me if they haven’t enjoyed the show for a while now. As no amount of great directing/acting/musical score/cinematography will allow them to enjoy the show anymore.

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    99. Clob,

      I am thinking if there really is a Cleganebowl the actual action will be on a sound stage in NI sometime later even if the current setting is the setting.

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    100. To people and on other places saying that next season will suck. We don’t know context, motives and dialog.

      If someone described Hardhome to me, I would say what a nonsense that is. When you see it on the screen and everything put together. It all makes sense. One of the best things Game of Thrones did. D&D are not invincible but these guys wrote some of the best stuff we’ve seen on television for the past 6 years.

      I trust them, if wight mission is what they need, then I trust them they’ll deliver in these kind of set pieces and it will be like Hardhome, Blackwater or BotB fights.

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    101. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      I didn’t, actually. Episode 10 was incredible but overall I found season 6 frustrating. So yeah, I guess it is just the general direction the story is taking that I simply can’t stand.

      The hackneyed, simplistic plots are to me in stark contrast to everything GoT always stood for.

        Quote  Reply

    102. Jenny,

      I don’t really understand what point you’re trying to make. I didn’t sign up expecting to see my exact vision for the show either. I’m just expressing my opinion on the direction that they have chosen.

      The question of whether the story is good is exactly what I’m addressing, so saying that it doesn’t matter what the viewers think as long as the story is good doesn’t really work as a rebuttal.

      And you’re taking a revisionist approach to the debate over whether or not this is a logical plot development.

      You’re now starting from the point of Daenerys being unable to defeat Cersei and how some have complained that Daenerys has had things too easy.

      Yet if you go back and read the hundreds of comments across numerous articles on this site, the majority of them were perfectly willing to agree that Daenerys would defeat Cersei. Many will have argued that it was beyond doubt.

      There was discussion of all the context in the show, all the prophecies, all the foreshadowing, etc. that lead to the conclusion that Daenerys would defeat Cersei and she and Jon would take on the White Walkers.

      At pretty much no point did anyone seriously debate or agonize over whether Cersei would survive and how Jon would go about convincing the rest of the Seven Kingdoms that the White Walkers exist.

      And yet from the moment that this plot point has been revealed there is suddenly an eagerness, mainly in response to criticism of this plot development, to justify Cersei being involved in the alliances and Jon having to find some convincing means to prove the existence of the White Walkers.

      It’s this change in tune that suggests that people are going out of their way to justify the plot.

      If the need for an alliance with Cersei and for Jon to produce material evidence of the White Walkers is such a credible plot development, then why was it never seriously contemplated before it became official?

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    103. dragonmcmx,

      You aren’t taking into account what happens when Bran, who is alive, crosses the wall with the mark that the Night King gave him…. does the wall magic deactivate? Something will obviously happen…

        Quote  Reply

    104. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      My opinion-Some of it was enjoyable. I didn’t like or understand what happened to Arya in Bravos. Dorne was problematic to say the least. I liked the Northern story line last year. I think the last few seasons has shown me that the show can be both great and not so great. I would just hate to see more of Bravos/Dorne problems in these last seasons

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    105. People seem to have a problem with Jon and Dany meeting with Cersei instead of just destroying her and the rest of KL, but it seems to me that Jon would caution against any unnecessary casualties, as they need all the living people they can get for the real war to come. And I suppose providing the leaders of the Lannisters with proof that the WW and their army of undead aren’t just a myth is why we get the wight hunt, which, given the support of three fire breathing giant dragons, would likely seem less of a suicide mission for Jon. And even so, he knows that he needs a much larger army, or they are all as good as dead anyway.

      I know it’s not what many wanted. A large portion of the online asoiaf community seemed to think Jon and Dany would be enemies. So this puts a damper on that.

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    106. Jon knows wights never roam around isolated. They travel in huge packs and now are one big army. He also knows that White Walkers are usually close wherever wights are. He should know that this is quite literally a suicide mission as logic has it but of course plot armor will be strong with them.

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    107. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man:
      Jenny,

      If the need for an alliance with Cersei and for Jon to produce material evidence of the White Walkers is such a credible plot development, then why was it never seriously contemplated before it became official?

      Are you seriously saying that since no one predicted this plot point it makes no sense?

      LOL! I have to agree with Jenny here about the complaints. The writers can’t win no matter what they do. If they write Jon/Dany teaming up to fight the WW, then it’s so predictable and boring because everyone has discussed this as a possible plot. If they write something that no one saw coming, then it makes no sense because it was not predicted.

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    108. Gotta say, I REALLY don’t like what I’m hearing lately about the plot developments. I feel it totally erodes so many character development arcs. I guess I’ll just have to keep faith in what D&D will bring to the table.

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    109. aeris,

      How else to convince them? Cersei is mad, Dany can’t commit people to it unless proof. He knows it’s a suicide but as far as he knows only option. The other is to stand and wait for them to sort out their conflict over iron throne which is not important when army of the dead comes for them.

        Quote  Reply

    110. Abbie,

      I’m not complaining about it not going the way I expect. I’m complaining about the details of the way it is now expected to go.

      I don’t believe that Jon teleporting up and down the continent to catch wights in order to manufacture a showdown with Cersei will be a decent or logical plot development.

      It sounds like an incredibly tenuous, out of character and far-fetched plot device.

        Quote  Reply

    111. Pigeon: Yes, it’ll be Sansa. Not only is she one of the few left up north, but Cersei is very familiar with her, so it would definitely have an impact. Then she’ll be returned and become the Night’s Queen.

      Wight Night’s Queen Sansa will then ride Viserion and become a dragon rider!! At least she finally gets to be Queen and please her fans. Queen in far North!

        Quote  Reply

    112. Ramsay's 20th Good Man:
      Abbie,

      I’m not complaining about it not going the way I expect. I’m complaining about the details of the way it is now expected to go.

      I don’t believe that Jon teleporting up and down the continent to catch wights in order to manufacture a showdown with Cersei will be a decent or logical plot development.

      It sounds like an incredibly tenuous, out of character and far-fetched plot device.

      Okay, I will bite. What were you expecting Jon to do next season that will be in character for him?

        Quote  Reply

    113. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      Well we were all wrong obviously.There are many ways a story can go.That doesn’t mean that they don’t make sense.We did not have any information on season seven and everybody was going in blind.Yes there was a general consensus that Dany would defeat Cersei but that doesn’t mean that it has to happen.Clearly they chose a different path.There is nothing to justify they didn’t have to go with what people thought and also it doesn’t mean that the story is worse because of this decision.The only thing that people are explaining is that in the event of Cersei still being on the throne this course of action makes sense.As to why she is still on the throne they will show it during the season.Honestly the minute they said about Dany that she has everything what could go wrong I suspected something like this might happen.

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    114. All they need to do to convince people of the undead is to take off FrankenGregor’s helmet…. ?

      How about they bring Benjen south? Mind you, those in the south wouldn’t really know him….

      Littlefinger wight? And then he could open up a Bordello of Blood!!!

        Quote  Reply

    115. Ramsay's 20th Good Man,

      Honestly, the amount of traveling Jon does was the thing that stood out most to me when I read some of these spoilers. I think the show may have to actually point out the passage of time between episodes.

        Quote  Reply

    116. Ramsay's 20th Good Man,

      First of all it’s not teleporting it’s called travelling and time passing.He is a king he has the means there is no reason for him not to travel as much as he likes.I thought we were past this.Second of all he is not doing it for a showdown with Cersei he is doing it so he can convince every person in the south including Dany that the apocalypse is coming.And lastly Jon putting aside differences and risking his life so everybody can focus on the real threat is incredibly in character.It’s all he does lol.

        Quote  Reply

    117. SerNoName,

      Are you seriously saying that since no one predicted this plot point it makes no sense?

      No, that’s not what I’m saying. You quoted that final question out of the context of the rest of the post.

      I’m saying that some people’s eagerness to dismiss criticism of it, despite having never previously seriously contemplated it as a plot development and in contrast to all their discussions of the most logical and credible plot direction, suggests that they are trying to justify the plot simply because it is what has been decided upon by the producers rather than on its actual merits.

        Quote  Reply

    118. Tyrion Pimpslap:
      Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      Honestly, the amount of traveling Jon does was the thing that stood out most to me when I read some of these spoilers. I think the show may have to actually point out the passage of time between episodes.

      I think at this point we just have to ignore the lightning speed traveling considering the speed with which Varys and LF have covered large distances. With only 7 episodes this season, are we really expecting them to not cover important plot points because of the distances involved.

      I rather the characters get to their destination super quick and go about their business. GRRM can afford to spend chapters detailing their journeys. The show cannot.

        Quote  Reply

    119. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man:
      SerNoName,

      No, that’s not what I’m saying. You quoted that final question out of the context of the rest of the post.

      I’m saying that some people’s eagerness to dismiss criticism of it, despite having never previously seriously contemplated it as a plot development and in contrast to all their discussions of the most logical and credible plot direction, suggests that they are trying to justify the plot simply because it is what has been decided upon by the producers rather than on its actual merits.

      So, what was the logical and credible plot direction that you expected to see next season?

        Quote  Reply

    120. Jenny,

      There comes a point where having characters travel the length of the continent and back in the space of an episode or two in order to facilitate a dodgy plot device becomes incongruous.

      Second of all he is not doing it for a showdown with Cersei he is doing it so he can convince every person in the south including Dany that the apocalypse is coming.

      The person I was replying to suggested that the wight plot line is just a means to facilitate a meeting with Cersei. I wasn;t talking about Jon’s motives, I was talking about the producers. Please try and understand the context of what I’ve written before replying so that I don’t have to keep explaining myself.

      And lastly Jon putting aside differences and risking his life so everybody can focus on the real threat is incredibly in character.

      Where have I said that putting aside differences and risking his life is out of character?

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    121. That is kind of the point of speculation on these spoiler boards. We try to fit a narrative to the bit of information we do have, whether it contrast our previous thoughts or not.

      Make no mistake, my eyebrows rose at some of the stuff I saw but I am waiting to see how it plays out.

        Quote  Reply

    122. Kosten,

      I have to agree with you. From rewatching the seasons, I’ve noticed more and more, that as the show continues there is less and less character development. Instead the show continually focuses on creating the best and biggest spectacles they can think of, despite whether or not they make sense within the story (and fits with how the character would act). Hopefully it won’t be as bad as I’m expecting, but I’m not optimistic about how season 7 will turn out.

        Quote  Reply

    123. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      The traveling vast distances has been going on since the beginning of the series. Robert and the Lannisters made it from KL to Winterfell in the same episode. Then it it took them and Ned one episode to get back to KL. Then Cat travelled there in one episode, then made it back up to the Inn in the Riverlands in one episode, and in that same episode, Tyrion made it from Winterfell to the Inn in the Riverlands.

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    124. Hmm, an unexpected turn of events. I am not sure if I like it.

      We have confirmed that the filmed scene involves characters bringing a wight into the Dragonpit as proof of the White Walker threat.

      This won’t come as a shock to fans who follow fandom rumors but we view most spoilers with a suspicious eye until we have them confirmed for ourselves. And this one, we have confirmed.

      That did not tell me how it got there, so is it okay now to discuss the remainder of the leak?
      Some posts did not have spoiler coding and I m sort of glad they did not. This fandom has gone to shits. Sorry…no, not sorry, feel free to ban me.
      How can you have a balanced discussion with people who read leaks? What is the point? I see now why a bunch of the oldtimers no longer post here.

      Don’t bother replying, I won’t be back.

        Quote  Reply

    125. Newbietothegame: That did not tell me how it got there, so is it okay now to discuss the remainder of the leak?

      Given that this post confirmed a significant event from the leak, it was unavoidable. People were of course going to discuss the leaks, at this point. But people should be covering leaked things that we haven’t reported on, to warn other commenters here who want to control their degree of spoilage. Unfortunately, I can’t sit here in front of the computer all day long monitoring and editing comments. We do what we can, but this is a tough situation to be dealing with.

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    126. Tyrion Pimpslap:
      Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      Honestly, the amount of traveling Jon does was the thing that stood out most to me when I read some of these spoilers. I think the show may have to actually point out the passage of time between episodes.

      Hence the series’ original title, Game of 299792458 Metres Per Second.

      😉

        Quote  Reply

    127. Jpatch,

      I know, and it never bothered me before, but for some reason Jon traveling from Winterfell>Eastwatch>Dragonstone>Kings Landing>Dragonstone>Eastwatch>Beyond the Wall>Eastwatch>Kings Landing sounds like a lot to do in 4 or 5 episodes(assuming Jon spends the first couple of episodes in the North.

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    128. SerNoName,

      Everybody’s theories have been discussed at length on this site over the last few months. I haven’t got the time or energy to outline my own thoughts here just so you can try and pick them apart when we’re meant to be scrutinizing the plot that we now know is likely to happen.

      But let’s just say I didn’t expect to see

      Jon going traipsing all over the continent trysing to capture wights, in order to present them to the psychotic, murderous queen who is inexplicably still in power and a major player despite having no allies, no money, no provisions, no dragons, in what is surely a futile attempt to get her to do the right thing for the Seven Kingdoms.

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    129. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      I don’t think it’s that much.It basically is

      Winterfell-Dragonstone-Beyond the wall-King’s landing and that’s it.I suspect most of the travel will be done in between episodes to signify the passage of time.And he is traveling by ship which is a faster way than by roads.

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    130. I sort of wished that it may be not real but alas.
      People can come up with lots of responses..
      But ultimately what it comes down to is having ..this is their way of having
      Lena for season8

      And have

      jon snow and kit fight a battle in the north.

      .because god forbid we can’t have a season without such

      This scene will be visually spectacular and all that. Which iam sure of ..but Iam still waiting to see other characters role in it ..and what they think of this and their role in it.and still there is lots of points missing ..

      Too bad BOTb had thousands and thousands of casualties and how hard it wsd for northern lords to accept the threat and yes both the situation are very similar IMO

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    131. It’s really just Cersei needing to be convinced that wights exist when she has Undead Ser Gregor standing next to her that’s making me scratch my head. I’ll 100% give D&D the benefit of the doubt, because I don’t think they’ve always deserved the stick they’ve taken, but this currently feels like an excuse just to lump a lot of characters together at once and do something shocking, rather than truly servicing the story. I’d happily be wrong when it comes to it though.

        Quote  Reply

    132. Lisa0527,

      I hope it’s a wight with a Cersei problem.

      And I hope Sam is nearby and has Heartsbane handy and unsheathed. 😉

      But I’ll say one thing for the Night’s Watch: they do remember to burn their dead. Gotta hand it to ’em for being thorough.

        Quote  Reply

    133. dragonmcmx,
      I don’t think The Wall ever completely comes down but, I would imagine that the Night King can crack it like he did the ground around the Three-eyed Raven’s cave – probably multiple cracks, in which the WWs can leak through. Since Bran has to undoubtedly make it past The Wall and head to Winterfell, the Night King should have the same ability to crack the ground and pass as he did before. Of course, once that’s done, that also means that Benjen is no longer confined to north of The Wall, either. I expect him to turn up at Winterfell and join Sansa and the rest of his family in ruling the North and fighting the WWs and Others. If wondering WHY Benjen did not mention this to Bran prior to going south, I think it has something to do with it having to be Bran’s choice without influence from Benjen, since Benjen is prohibited by the same magic interwoven in The Wall … a detail that I expect will be fully made clear by GRRM, if not by the GoT show.

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    134. Catspaw Assassin,

      Responding to meself, as is my wont:

      But I’ll say one thing for the Night’s Watch: they do remember to burn their dead.

      Except for Jon Snow, of course, who Alliser Thorne seemed to be hoping would turn into a white walker and do who knows what. Dude was cray cray.

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    135. I believe I can safely predict that the first scene of season seven will depict Ser Denys Mallister doing his everyday thang, commandering the Shadow Tower, sizing up his forces, and getting squished by a huge chunk of ice thrown from the top of The Wall. Cut to Jaime complimenting Cersei on her taste in wine and dissing her taste in men. Cut to Tyrion being seasick yet again. 😉

        Quote  Reply

    136. Jon might capture a wight for another reason. For example he wants Qyburn to examin the wight so that they can find how the White Walkers control the deads and if there is a way to break their control. If all the soldiers who will die fighting the White Walkers turn into wights this will be extremely complicated for the living to win the war. Qyburn is loyal to Cersei and Cersei trust him so if Qybburn found a solution about the wights then Cersei will then become an important asset for the war against the dead.

        Quote  Reply

    137. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man: What I find funny is that up until this plot was revealed, everybody was perfectly happy to accept that Daenerys and her vast army and allies would defeat Cersei and she would go mad / be killed by Jaime / go down in flames as she or Drogon torched the Red Keep / etc etc etc.

      Dany would face a few hurdles along the way (e.g. Euron) but she would be victorious and would then turn her attention north, and that was considered a perfectly acceptable and plausible course of events.

      And yet ever since this latest plot development has been revealed, we suddenly have a narrative among some fans that proving to Cersei that the White Walkers exist and forming an alliance is the only available option that our protagonists have. That it’s the only logical direction for the plot to take.

      Any thoughts of Daenerys defeating Cersei relatively comfortably, or Cersei going mad and destroying her own reign, or her being killed by Jaime/Arya/Faceless Men/etc. have all suddenly gone out of the window. And this plot is depicted as the only logical development.

      I’m sorry, but it just reeks of people bending over backwards to justify the direction the writers have chosen.

      Everybody?

      You mean a lot of people have decided that Dany will land in Westeros, and that she will quickly conquer everything and become the the Queen of Westeros.

      All of the politics will be quickly, neatly and conveniently completed before the fight against the White Walkers has a chance to start.

      Then we will see the three heads of the dragon; Dany, Tyrion and Jon riding dragons and defeating the White Walkers. And perhaps someone along the way will be killed like Nisa Nisa, to become Azor Ahai.

      Yes, these are all generally accepted endings. But do people really believe everything would be resolved this smoothly and predictably?

      If the story actually ended this way it wouldn’t be terribly exciting or interesting. If the story ended in such a fashion it would actually be much closer to all of the other usual high fantasies. Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing or even bad writing, but it doesn’t really fit in with what has been happening in the story so far.

      This is a story about the characters, and according to GRRM, having the human heart in conflict with itself is an important aspect of his writing. Where is the conflict or the pressure if all of the poltical problems are conveniently resolved before fighting off the big bad supernatural enemy?

      Fighting against the White Walkers was never going to be this simple, because humans will always be different and they will always have different drives, needs, motivations and agendas. This is what makes it so difficult to fight against this supernatural force that no one believes in.

      Jon is in a difficult position almost no one believes that White Walkers actually exists. Dany might perhaps believe him, but she can look at it from a different perspective, she might believe they have more time.
      She might be more than willing to abandon her war efforts and fight against the White Walkers, but it would be a big problem for her if Cersei doesn’t stop her war efforts.
      It would be difficult to fight on two fronts. Therefore even if Dany believes in the White Walkers she has waited years to conquer Westeros this is big moment for her she wouldn’t want to give Cersei any unnecessary ground. She might agree to help fight against the White Walkers if Cersei’s threat is taken care of.

      Jon also doesn’t want to see more valuable soldiers dying before they have time to fight against the actual enemy. And what will happen to all of these bodies, and dead soldiers? They could easily become wights.
      Humans have to stop fighting against each other, that is the basic principal. They have to agree to a ceasefire. They don’t have to stop the war forever, but they must focus on the real enemy first.

      In this situation the only real option for Jon is to try and convince both sides to at least consider a temporary ceasefire. There has to be a truce for the time being.

      Going by the leaks, at the time Jon leaves on this mission Dany isn’t fully onboard with the White Walkers yet. It is only after Jon has left that Dany is onboard, and it is only then that she follows this expedition with her dragons. There will properly be something that will change her mind, but even she isn’t fully onboard right from the start.

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    138. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      I’m not sure who “everybody” is, but for one, it doesn’t include me. That was one possible turn of events, and I would have been fine with it, but I never assumed that that’s how it had to be. In light of the articles posted here indicating that Dany’s conquest isn’t a simple matter and that Jon is seemingly getting caught in the middle of things in the south rather than working on Sudoku puzzles up north until the A-plot required his presence again, using his time to actually unite people makes sense from both an in-story and narrative perspective. He was always going to make a case for the real war being in the north, and bringing warring factions together is hardly a new development for him being sprung on the audience at the last minute.

      Right now, it looks more to me like some people are having knee-jerk reactions to having a work of fiction take a creative turn that doesn’t match the direction they’ve been banking on for however many years. That, and people always pitch a fit when context-free information leaks from production. People were going to threaten to rage quit no matter what was being reported here, because at one point or another, the actual plot of the story was going to rain on some people’s fanon parades. I am more than happy to call out poor writing, inconsistent characterization, and weak story execution when I see it…based on a final product. Not a scattering of fragmented details about the season’s major beats being presented without any way of knowing yet how it all fits together.

      Tyrion Pimpslap,

      Jon and Davos probably sailed out of White Harbor to get to Dragonstone, not Eastwatch. It makes no sense to travel for days or weeks in the wrong direction when there’s already a road that takes them south from Winterfell to the largest port city in the north. It’s the same route Catelyn took to get to KL in Season 1.

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    139. Boudica,

      Ah sanity prevails. This is a really good set of reasons why Jon would be working to unite the leaders left in Westeros, and definitely more realpolitik than just waging war on Dany or Cersie, or anyone else. Drama comes out of human nature, not out vague shadows with no depth.

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    140. I think Dany could pretty much defeat Cersei if she wanted. But we know there’s WF hidden everywhere in the city. If she uses her Dragons, possibly all city would explode. Many innoncents would die and that’s what probably Tyrion/Varys will tell her (similar to what happened in ep09 last season) so they’ll have to abort the idea, because even if she only used her army, who’s gonna say Cersei wouldn’t use WF regardless when she realized she would be defeated?

      One would think it would be better to stop all wars between men to save their armies for the great war to come. I just doubt Cersei would be resonable enough to agree with that.

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    141. Pigeon,

      I appreciate the compliment, Pigeon. Rightbackatcha, and your comment

      Then [Sansa will] be returned and become the Night’s Queen

      has got me to wondering about how and if the show will play on various shades of the Lady Stoneheart story, and will no doubt give me nightmares for months to come.

      Ahhh, life is good. 😉

        Quote  Reply

    142. Sue the Fury,

      I am not questioning why anyone would seek to confirm a spoiler. I am just really shocked at the amount of leaks/spoilers this year, and I am surprised that they are getting confirmed. It seems like too much information. Of course I enjoy reading them, but I find it odd. I haven’t paid attention to leaks from previous years, so maybe this happens every year. I love your web-site!

        Quote  Reply

    143. Kargaryen: If she uses her Dragons, possibly all city would explode. Many innoncents would die and that’s what probably Tyrion/Varys will tell her (similar to what happened in ep09 last season) so they’ll have to abort the idea, because even if she only used her army, who’s gonna say Cersei wouldn’t use WF regardless when she realized she would be defeated?

      True. In Meereen, fortunately, the Masters were bombarding the city from their boats in the harbor, so Daenerys could set one boat on fire and defeat her enemies very neatly. After the lecture Tyrion gave her in 6.09, she would not do the same thing in KL. It’s a clever strategy of Cersei’s, to sit tight and hold the entire city hostage with the wildfire that Daenerys’ own father stored.

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    144. Tyrion Pimpslap: I know, and it never bothered me before, but for some reason Jon traveling from Winterfell>Eastwatch>Dragonstone>Kings Landing>Dragonstone>Eastwatch>Beyond the Wall>Eastwatch>Kings Landing sounds like a lot to do in 4 or 5 episodes(assuming Jon spends the first couple of episodes in the North.

      It is from Dragonstone to Eastwatch, then Kings Landing and then North. People don’t seem to understand the traveling.

        Quote  Reply

    145. Black Raven: Lol I’ve used this username mostly in Spanish forums like lossietereinos. I didn’t know about you using it as well I’m pretty sure we can share or I’ll use another one no prob

      I only post to WotW and have used this username for some 2 years. I just couldn’t believe it when I saw another Black Raven in this thread 😉

      There are plenty of other ‘ravens’ in this group. e.g. Dothrakian Raven – Rayvrn – TheFourEyedRaven (that’s a new one) and probably some others. So probably best if you chose another to avoid confusion? – How about White Raven? That was sent from the Citadel in S6 as a messenger that ‘Winter has finally Come’ !!

      BTW, my ‘Gravatar’ really is me and with a raven perched on my shoulder – caw -caw – He was after my sandwiches LOL 😀

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    146. dragonbringer: But you have to have dany defeated you see..no matter how that happens just have her defeated and that’s enough

      Dany doesn’t have to be defeated, they just need a temporary truce.

        Quote  Reply

    147. moiaf,

      I know I’m not alone in thinking (especially after the look Jaime and Cersei exchanged in the final episode of Season 6) that Jaime is the “valonqar” of the prophecy, not Tyrion.

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    148. Young Dragon:
      Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      This is really no different from Lord Commander Mormont’s plan in the books to take the wight hand to King’s Landing as proof. It’s just on a much larger scale. Did you also have a problem with the book plot?

      In the books, didn’t Jon

      trap a wight in an ice cell at Castle Black

      ? Maybe he ends up taking a wight to King’s Landing in the book, too. The show could just be taking a different path to the same end.

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    149. Lonely Cat,

      Speaking of House Mormont, how’s about the possible spin-off being centered on Bear Island? They could be the wackiest soap opera since Doc Cotton pushed her husband in front of a lorry on EastEnders. (◠‿◠)

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    150. Boudica,

      Actually, White Harbor to Dragonstone, Dragontone to Eastwatch be the sea, then North of the Wall, back to Eastwatch, then to King’s Landing showing wight and then to Dragonstone before going up North again. A lot of travelling for Jon, Davos and some others too.

      Also, if wight mission goes as we heard. How is that Dany is able to find them and why would she even go there? She didn’t go in the first place, so what she changed her mind? Bran?

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    151. Kay,

      Who comes and saves him is different yes..but this is another episode to use kit’s sword wielding capabilities.

      Kay: After the lecture Tyrion gave her in 6.09, she would not do the same thing in KL.

      Yeah unfortunately she needs another lesson on how blowing up KL will have innocents will die and reminder of aerys..

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    152. Boudica,

      It could be something like that ..

      But I was speaking about fans here..the thought of dany getting defeated brings them such a glee I suppose..for example I never see one poster failing to mention the word Defeated when speaking about dany so far..

        Quote  Reply

    153. Jade,

      Not to mention, this is prophesy fulfilling. It is well known whomever brings people together… kinda this chosen one. Depending on how you interpret. Jon is bringing everyone together. He died for it. Still doing it.

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    154. Okay … maybe I missed something but, I’ve followed all the leak links (at least I believe I have), and not one of them actually reports that Cersei is also at the Dragon Pit with the other attendees, do they? All they say is that the actors are in the same city but, that does not automatically mean they are in the same scene. Cersei, Jaime, Qyburn and The Mountain could all be in different scenes than those involved in the Dragon Pit. Let’s not assume leaks, or argue about leaks that do not exist … Cersei and her gang may never negotiate or discuss WWs at all. They could all be in another part of the city, and never the twain shall meet. We just don’t know. As for book leaks and film leaks, I would take those with a grain of salt, because D&D and GRRM may be messing with the paparazzi’s heads for all we know. If it seems incredulous or trite, you’d be wise to be skeptical before arguing, IMO.

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    155. Firannion: Not that I want to rain on your parade

      No raining involved at all, Firannion, I was just joshing. Methinks and mehopes that the esteemed Mr. Broadbent — he of the Harry Potter movies but also less well-known films like Life Is Sweet and Topsy-Turvy, which I can’t recommend more highly — will portray a certain mentor to a certain scion of House Tarly. 😉

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    156. BunBunStark,

      Glad you like it, and picture: a captured wight surrounded by inquisitive, interrogating and frightened “southerners.” Seems like an ideal part for an actor of Broadbent’s range (not that I think this will actually happen, he typed while googling “zombie html code emoticons”).

      😉

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    157. Dani,

      But it’s not just an issue of not believing in the supernatural threat, it’s also who it’s coming from. I don’t think its so much the supernatural aspect that she would find hard to believe, but keep in mind this information is coming from Jon Snow who is in active rebellion against the Crown (Cersei) and who has also aligned himself with her enemy (Dany). There’s no way she’s just gonna take his word for it and hand over her men just because he says there’s a threat. Hence why the proof is needed.

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    158. Pigeon,

      I’m concerned that Davos and Tormund might not make it to season finale 🙁 I’m glad the Hound is team Stark and it will be interesting to see him and Jon interact but they don’t know each other very well, though maybe by this point late in season if they’ve gone through a lot of shit together they could have a little bromance going on 🙂

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    159. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man:
      SerNoName,

      Everybody’s theories have been discussed at length on this site over the last few months. I haven’t got the time or energy to outline my own thoughts here just so you can try and pick them apart when we’re meant to be scrutinizing the plot that we now know is likely to happen.

      But let’s just say I didn’t expect to see

      In the books, Aegon or Jaime likely takes down Cersei and then Dany takes down Aegon and conquers the South and Jon has the North and they come to an understanding in their fight against the WW. Jon will most probably convince other leaders in a different way. But let’s remember that even the NW brothers assassinated their Lord Commander despite knowing about the threat of the WW. It will not be hard to convince others about the greater threat.

      Now, on the show, the writers clearly like writing for Lena Headey and want Cersei around as long as possible. Side characters like Aegon have also been cut. They also want to make the whole exciting for a TV show. Wight Hunting in the far reaches of the North with Jon, Gendry, Tormund, Jorah etc. sounds pretty damn intense and we can at least enjoy the spectacle of it.

      So we have Jon trying to talk sense into Cersei since David and Dan will not get rid of this character till the very last episode. Does it make sense? Maybe not. But why the outrage now? Most of the North plot the last 2 seasons was made up fanfiction that made no sense. Jon’s plot was written around giving Sansa something to do on the show. The Battle of the Bastard, while superbly filmed, was written horribly and made no sense – why did Sansa keep info about the Vale plot secret? Because the writers wanted to give Sansa to be responsible for the victory so that she could be jealous later on when Jon gets the credit.

      This show has always had rather clumsy writing to fit in certain characters like Cersei and Sansa into plots that they don’t belong to in the books. I believe Cersei will die fairly early in the books. On the show, her continued presence in KL, requires Jon to now convince her (Instead of someone like Aegon or Dany) and it also allows the show to have a flashy sequence like Hardhome up North.

      We just have to go with it at this point.

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    160. Catspaw Assassin:
      BunBunStark,

      Glad you like it, and picture: a captured wight surrounded by inquisitive, interrogating and frightened “southerners.”Seems like an ideal part for an actor of Broadbent’s range (not that I think this will actually happen, he typed while googling “zombie html codeemoticons”).

      ?

      Not that I want to rain on your parade, but this strikes me as a very silly waste of Broadbent’s talents (not to mention the pricetag of hiring an actor of his caliber). A wight is just a basic mindless boogeyman – not a character requiring any sort of nuanced acting. It could be anyone who can stagger, flail and howl.

      Plus, I seem to recall having read somewhere that they make a point of hiring the skinniest possible extras to portray wights, since that means that there’s less flesh to erase with green leotards and CGI to make them look skeletal. Jim Broadbent is a portly man.

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    161. dragonbringer:
      Boudica,

      But I was speaking about fans here..the thought of dany getting defeated brings them such a glee I suppose..for example I never see one poster failing to mention the word Defeated when speaking about dany so far..

      Why are 99% of your posts about how everyone picks on poor persecuted Dany? It’s really getting kind of old.

        Quote  Reply

    162. Catspaw Assassin:
      BunBunStark,

      Glad you like it, and picture: a captured wight surrounded by inquisitive, interrogating and frightened “southerners.”Seems like an ideal part for an actor of Broadbent’s range (not that I think this will actually happen, he typed while googling “zombie html codeemoticons”).

      ?

      LOL.

      Actually, the fact that they haven’t hired Javier Botet yet to play a wight is downright shameful. It smacks of poor storytelling and bad writing and also agency and book/show wankers and something to do, tropes and Chekov’s phaser hanging on the wall of the Enterprise and something something. *Kermit flail*

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    163. Just read the update. Something worries me though. Lena Headey, Peter Dinklage, Emilia Clarke, Kit Harington, Iain Glen, Conleth Hill, Nathalie Emmanuel, Anton Lesser, and the Hound were filming this scene, in the dragonpit. (Who does Anton Lesser play?)Anyways…where is Davos and why wouldn’t Tormund have gone on the mission and travel with Jon? Where did Gendry go, would they bring him back into the fold just to have him killed off? It seems there is team Cercie/Lannister and team Dany but Jon has no allies came on the boat to KL with him to show the wight??

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    164. I don’t understand why people are already judging this season as laughable based on a ‘silly premise’ the plot leak revealed. As if an outline is all one needs to determine if the show will be good or bad? Plenty of good movies have outlines that, on paper, sound silly or dumb.

      Rich fancy boy loses parents. Loses his shit. Dresses like a bat. Beats people to a bloody pulp with ninja-trained moves. Whenever he talks, it sounds like there’s something caught in his throat.

      I’m betting a lot of book publishers thought GRRM’s plot about dragons, children of the forest, and beautiful iced zombies, all with a political intrigue in the background, was a silly concept too. It was only when people actually read and experienced his work that it surpassed all expectations.

      Don’t get me wrong, D&D won’t ever be on the same level as GRRM. They fail to capture the delicate balance between action and drama as well as the author. Still, they’ve done a helluva job pushing the narrative forward. In fact, one of the common criticism from show watchers was the lack of progress in the past seasons. Sansa seemed to take forever to evolve as a character. Dany was stuck in Nowhere Land. Jon continued to know nothing. And Cersei was being Cersei, sipping wine from her glass. Hardly any of them advanced toward their goals. It was only when the show caught up to the books that D&D got things rolling. Suddenly, people felt excited again.

      I think if we can appreciate the show for what it is as opposed to shunning it for what it isn’t, we might enjoy it more. 🙂

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    165. Pigeon:
      ygritte,

      I’m pretty sure Sandor is Team Jon.

      Those are words I never thought I’d read. But, yes, Sandor Clegane is on Team Jon. And it makes me giddy.

      Catspaw Assassin: No raining involved at all, Firannion, I was just joshing.

      And to be clear, I knew you were joshing when I initially replied.

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    166. Jess:
      I don’t understand why people are already judging this season as laughable based on a ‘silly premise’ the plot leak revealed. As if an outline is all one needs to determine if the show will be good or bad? Plenty of good movies have outlines that, on paper, sound silly or dumb.

      Rich fancy boy loses parents. Loses his shit. Dresses like a bat. Beats people to a bloody pulp with ninja-trained moves. Whenever he talks, it sounds like there’s something caught in his throat.

      For about 5 seconds there, I thought you meant Jon. LOL. ?

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    167. Catspaw Assassin: No raining involved at all, Firannion, I was just joshing. Methinks and mehopes that the esteemed Mr. Broadbent — he of the Harry Potter movies but also less well-known films like Life Is Sweet and Topsy-Turvy, which I can’t recommend more highly — will portray a certain mentor to a certain scion of House Tarly. ?

      Ah, there I go being my gullible self, taking you seriously!

      I am also a fan of Topsy-Turvy. He made the perfect W. S. Gilbert! And I have enjoyed his work in many other movies – even in very minor roles like the pornographer husband in Enchanted April and the blackmailer in The Lady in the Van. And he was terrific in multiple roles in Cloud Atlas. Broadbent always delivers!

      I too am keeping my fingers crossed for a certain rather flamboyant character at the Citadel…

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    168. ygritte,

      If dragonpit is season finale which would Podeswa’s presence implied, then Davos will live. Tormund not sure but he could be in the North after the mission. Jon represents widlings too. No need for Tormund going South and Gendry is not there either.

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    169. Lora,

      Could be why Dany gives Jon Jorah because she knows she can trust Jorah if he says the WW are real, Dany won’t need an actual body to be certain.

        Quote  Reply

    170. Abbie,

      > If it had been spoiled that Renly is going to be killed by a shadow demon that came out of a red priestess private bits, we all would’ve been “wtf is this nonesense?”

      Or Tywin sleeping with Shae? Other than “like grandfather, like father, like son” and Tywin being a real hypocrite (when he said “bring her to the tower of the hand” he hadn’t even met Shae yet, one can only assume he took a liking to her after interrogation) there isn’t much foreshadowing for this twist. So to me it seems like a plot device needed to make Tyrion act against Tywin. As such, the current spoilers seem okay to me 🙂

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    171. Geralt of Rivia,

      Boudica,

      In the books Dany has what is called “Dragon Dreams” small visions of the future, she does mention it in the show saying “my dreams come true” in Qarth but they never go into detail about it.
      It would be cool if we finally see her have one of those Dragon Dreams showing her the danger Jon, Jorah and the gang are in. It could either that, Bran communicating by giving her his own vision or perhaps her dragons give her a vision. I don’t imagine a raven would be viable, the only other reason that I could think of is she has a bad feeling or she changes her mind about not going beyond the wall but that’s not as exciting as the other options.

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    172. Mel,

      But how can she find them? Rhaegal sensing Jon or what? It seems like out of nowhere, not bad but some logic behind would be nice. I hope Bran sends her vision, Mel or someone else. If she has second guess about it, it’s well an option.

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    173. Sandors words: fuck the Lannisters. Probably Dany lost the Battle on sea vs Euron. Maybe she is not even there. Yara got captured, Theon got away and flees to DS.

      Cersei’s first thing she does is attack Dorne. They killed Marcella. Cersei wants revenge. Meanwhille the tension between Cersei and Jaime will increase and will blow in the finale. Also because I think Cersei don’t give a **** about others, only herself. The WW are far away, so team Jon will not convince her. Maybe Jaime kills her, maybe she is make it to season 8. The only thing I know for sure is she is not make it to the end.

      Also Im conviced that Cersei at some point will say: burn them all. Just like Jon with Olly and Ned with Benjen ( got your shield up). But when..?

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    174. I’m as skeptical of some of the gimmicky thrills the show has thrown at us here and there as well, but come on with the wights can’t pass the wall stuff as one of the go to complaints. I mean, if they literally can never pass the wall then the entire story line of the others is pish posh in the show and books because they are only threats on the side of the wall no one wants to be on. I imagine something of both moderate reasoning and difficulty will do away with that to move the story along. They won’t even be the first wights to pass the wall, so a hindsight explanation will probably do it just fine.

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    175. I haven’t read all of the leaks, but I’ve got the broad strokes down. I’m not bashing S7 yet. My main wishlist: I just want to see Jon being awesome at something other than sword fighting. I want people to listen to him, but I also want him to learn something in the process. I also want more exposition that reveals the inner thoughts of the characters. Character growth through plot, please…

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    176. dragonbringer,

      Calm down. Dany has her own battle to fight in the south against the Lannisters and it’s said to be bigger than BtoB. Doesn’t that please you?

      God forbid this show actually try and give another protagonist something to do. The whole world should revolve around Snowflake Targaryen and her troubles. /sarcasm

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    177. If I have to be honest, as a books reader I’ve (almost) always found overdo some criticisms to the tv-show.
      I also like to speculate before a season comes out. But when things did not go as I thought, I wasn’t upset.
      I know and understand some story lines have to be cut or merged.
      I know and understand some lucky coincidences are necessary.
      I’ve found the solutions they’ve used or the decisions they’ve made so far logical and enjoyable. Sometimes (Sansa story line just to mention one of them) interesting just because totally different from what I expected.
      I know that’s fantasy, but I’m glad there’s no Lady Stoneheart in the TV show.
      I like reality and supernatural to be well balanced.
      In the books you’ve got much more of them both, in the tv show that would be undue if you don’t want another stupid creepy zombies tv show.
      In a few words: I think they’ve done a brilliant job.
      I think they’ve simplified the plot but the storytelling is yet enough complex and above all interesting, reasonable and with a good pinch of supernatural elements.
      I’m afraid putting together all season7 spoilers we’ve got, the picture is very different…
      I don’t understand why a cease-fire parliament (which I presume the Dragonpit event must be, due the WW threat Jon is showing them ) has to take place in K.L.
      Whatever venue you choose it can not be at someone’s home (or town), it should be a real neutral place. A land in between. Or a no one’s land.
      I accept whites can go under the Wall, but I don’t see how you can put in a cage one of them and how the hell you can travel with him/it.
      And so on….
      I really hope I will change my point of view once the episodes air. Maybe they’ll be able to make it all reasonable. But in this very moment, my hype is terribly down.

      Whatever the

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    178. aeris,

      I don’t know, but it’s getting old. I imagine they want to keep the audience in suspense as if Jon isn’t covered in plot armor right now…

      Boudica,

      I agree. Of course everyone will blame Jon for everything again lmao.

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    179. dragonbringer,

      Forbid if someone says anything about Dany. Did I ever said that this is the only thing from this leak or plot that I dislike or the most of anything? No. Just debate is about this and I reacted. If you look up to forum…you’ll find what I dislike the most or else from the plot. So calm down.

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    180. Sorry if I add something, but

      Before spoilers started to emerge I was one of those who did not give for grant a Jon-Dany alliance vs Cersei or whatsoever alliance between them.

      I’m not disappoint if that’s not the case.
      As told things can go different from what I did expect.
      The thing for me is “how” you build that story…

        Quote  Reply

    181. mau,

      True but we don’t also wanna see everyone fighting the WW and then cut to Cersei, Qyburn and The Mountain in the same episode chatting and drinking wine because none of them are involved in the war.

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    182. ea:
      Jade,
      Not to mention, this is prophesy fulfilling. It is well known whomever brings people together… kinda this chosen one. Depending on how you interpret. Jon is bringing everyone together. He died for it. Still doing it.

      So people are fully aware of that trope? It seems it’s not just a matter of having overlooked a massive cliche, like I was hoping; people genuinely like this sort of stuff.

      Guess that’s what the masses go for. Weird how GoT’s commercial success may also prove to be its creative downfall.

      This article is very much to the point:
      https://www.inverse.com/article/17718-game-of-thrones-season-6-worst-george-r-r-martin-predictable-controversy

      And I’m not even a book reader, mind you

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    183. Flayed Potatoes,

      Their actions as Jon, Bran and Dany actions will kinda let to the chains of events, so it’ll be a bit their doing, if leaks are right.

      You see, dragonbinder dislike if Jon or anyone else is preferred to Dany in something or do it too.

      Battle against Lannisters might be the biggest battle they’ve done, but not enough for him. Dany must have more and Jon can’t have. Hardhome wasn’t so much as battle, rather than massacre.

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    184. dragonmcmx,

      I think that the White Walkers cannot pass but wights can. The NK has the dragonglass in his heart and can’t pass. So does Benjen because that’s how the CoF ‘saved’ him. They can’t pass due the enchantments the CoF put on the wall most likely related to the dragonglass. Wights are reanimated corpses while the NK was created and the WW also from Craster’s boys. I think that’s what makes the difference.

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    185. Flayed Potatoes,

      One would think the hero would somehow eventually smarten up and start getting little victories come the endgame, not actually become one of the reasons for the catastrophe. Daenerys has been given many (easy) victories over the seasons, while Jon has had to be saved time and again or simply escaped from a massacre (Hardhome). When has he won anything thanks to his skills and intelligence? Even at Craster’s he needed help from one of the daughters to get rid of the fooking legend of Gin Alley. They seem determined to dumb him down. A dumb action hero is all show!Jon seems to be.

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    186. aeris,

      But he looks good swinging the sword, but when you think about it. You’re kinda right. He gets saved, kicked here and there. But gotta admire those locks or man bun while doing it. 😀

        Quote  Reply

    187. Jenny,

      Wights can just play dead too. The wight got up when he had a chance to kill Commander Mormont but not before. I think they will have to coax it with some fire to get him to move to prove he can move. Or when Gregor chops him up the pieces will move? I don’t think the wight will want to play along with Jon and the rest.

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    188. I’d argue there is still scope for Jon and Dany to become enemies (of sorts), it seems they will grow close at first however once it becomes clear they are related and that Jon is the true heir to the throne things may not be so happy for either of them.

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    189. tea,

      We don’t know yet if KL is still in Cersei’s hands or if she retreated to Casterly Rock. I could see Jaime telling her to retreat once they see the alliances Dany has made. KL very well could be neutral at that point or Dany could be occupying it at that very moment since we know Dragonstone is her base of operations. The wight that attacked Mormont at The Wall was lying dead when they found it because apparently it wanted to be taken past TW to kill Mormont. They’re afraid of fire so presumably they will have to use it to coax it into a cage or wagon for transport.

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    190. Jon Snowed,

      I seriously doubt that they’ll become enemies

      1) Them both surving the war is doubtful
      2) If they both survive and are close why wouldn’t they share the throne
      3) Jon has absolutely no desire to sit on the throne and I don’t imagine when he finds out about his birth that’ll change. Jon has always wanted to be a Stark and he is, his family that he loves is also Northerners so I can’t see him wanting to leave them to play politics
      4) Jon was already tired of war and death before fighting Ramsay, no way after fighting the WW will he start a war with his Aunt a woman he has become comrade in arms with over a chair
      5) The true heir honestly I don’t even think that matters anymore, it’s more likely gonna be right of conquest
      6) The author said he doesn’t believe in chosen ones, someone who wins everything aka the war and the throne is unlikely
      7) To be honest at the end of this I don’t see anyone sitting on the Iron Throne, it’s probably gonna be destroyed by something or someone breaking the wheel since it’s the throne that keeps the wheel spinning.

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    191. Jon Snowed,

      Dany is true heir to throne – appointed by Viserys, Jon Snow is bastard aside that Aerys disinherited Rhaegar’s line so even if by some miracle he is legit targaryen ,he still has weaker claim than Dany

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    192. I don’t believe D&D have added this plot development just to ensure Lena is in Season 8, for all we know she could die in this scene. I suspect more they are following GRRM outline which stated all survivors head North to face the white walkers and that after that there would be some detail on how they move forward (i.e. dealing with Cersei, Dany and/or Jon ruling).

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    193. Mel,
      Personally, I can hardly see them make an entire fight episode without any other story elements in it. And even if they did, it would not be the last episode. So there will be time to resolve character arcs. I don’t see the actual fighting as the most important plot, there will be things going on besides that. IMO it would be strange to have the political aspects which were a huge part for six seasons pushed aside completely.

      Kosten,
      Oh, look, a trope! Now I have to stop watching the show 🙁 Thanks for bringing enlightenment to us sheeple!
      But frankly, I don’t need inverse.com to tell me that there was a change in writing. Yes, it was more straight forward and maybe even predictable and some plots were even awfully written. But it gave us other things instead and a lot of those were still very much enjoyable. So, be free to not like the change, but there’s no need to be a condescending dick about it.

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    194. Kosten,

      Exactly. I have read the books and I think George RR Martin is a brilliant storyteller and a very intelligent, observant man who understands human psychology and behavior, characters and stereotypes, the nature of all sorts of relationships, feelings and society extremely well. He is also very knowledgeable about mythology, history and literature; he brings together these parallel elements in a very creative and impressive way. He likes unconventionality and I think he enjoys challenging society’s conventional views. He is also very detail-oriented; his writing, story and character developments are not simple, they are full of subtexts and subtle hints, references, connections, parallels etc.

      D&D on the other hand, are mediocre writers and storytellers according to me. They are not as perceptive as GRRM, they are successful only because they know what masses go for, like you said. They are good business men and they write and produce for average people in general, like most screenwriters and producers who are commercially successful.

      So, I definitely agree that the show doesn’t reflect the creativity and elegance of GRRM’s story anymore. I look forward to upcoming books to finish the story.

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    195. arvagar,

      Aerys disinherited only Dornish if my memory serves me correctly and that means Aegon and Rhaenys as Elia was their mother, because he thought Dorne might rebel against Rhaegar. Not Jon as he comes from Stark mother. If Jon is legitimate, he comes first as a male.

      Another question how to rove it and will it even matter for iron throne. I don’t think so but it’s more for war against white walkers.

      Skye,

      George said somebody will sit on the iron throne at the end, even mentioned some other people will sit on it before. Tommen, Cersei probably.

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    196. We don’t know what is planned for the (as yet unpublished) books in the ASOIAF – GRRM might have a wight hunt planned in them. I’m not saying he does – just it’s a possibility. In real war it sometimes has taken a long time to convince people of the truth (maybe not nowadays with satellites and long lenses) but I remember reading about two men who had escaped from Auchswitz concentration camp in World War II and there were still people who didn’t want to believe how bad it was.

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    197. AlexG:
      Luka Nieto,

      Luka,please don´t let the thread be overrun with trolls ?

      I’ve been reviewing the thread after reading your comment. I see no trolls. Granted, there are a few obstinate people who comment EXCLUSIVELY to complain, never participating in the community for other purposes. It is tiring, and sometimes their comments get so spammy and insulting that they are deleted. These people are also the ones who almost never bother to cover their spoilers, interestingly. But this time I see nothing that went that far.

      AlexG:
      Bah! I hate that it´s beggining to look more likely that there will be no Rhaegar flasback of any kind ?

      Just because a lot of stuff has been leaked doesn’t mean all of it will. A scene involving Rhaegar and Lyanna would probably be filmed in an interior set. Don’t lose hope.

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    198. Mel,

      Oh, and as an addendum: They cut away from the war in the Blackwater episode and it was a great episode.

      Also not everyone will be fighting. What about Sam and Gilly, Tyrion, Sansa, Arya, Varys, Theon?

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    199. You are guessing what will come in the books but D&D know that outline and have consistently said they are following it but the details may differ. Therefore it’s extremely unlikely D&D are keeping Cersei alive only because they like Lena’s acting. Far more likely that Aegon is defeated and Cersei is still there when Dany arrives.

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    200. Geralt of Rivia: Actually, White Harbor to Dragonstone, Dragontone to Eastwatch be the sea, then North of the Wall, back to Eastwatch, then to King’s Landing showing wight and then to Dragonstone before going up North again. A lot of travelling for Jon, Davos and some others too.

      Yes, Jon obviously start off in the North, I am not sure they will be going back to Dragonstone again after Kings Landing. I didn’t read it like that, but perhaps I am wrong.

      I do hope Bran is perhaps the one who guides Dany. I can see Bran guiding uncle Benjen to help Jon. It would be good if Bran could really start to do something with his talents.

      aeris: One would think the hero would somehow eventually smarten up and start getting little victories come the endgame, not actually become one of the reasons for the catastrophe. Daenerys has been given many (easy) victories over the seasons, while Jon has had to be saved time and again or simply escaped from a massacre (Hardhome). When has he won anything thanks to his skills and intelligence? Even at Craster’s he needed help from one of the daughters to get rid of the fooking legend of Gin Alley. They seem determined to dumb him down. A dumb action hero is all show!Jon seems to be.

      I really dont understand what is so bad or dumb about Jon trying to find a wight, or finding proof about the existence of the White Walkers. I would say that this plot might actually be more inline with Jon’s book counterpart then many of his other plotlines.

      From the books one always get the sense that Jon is the negotiator, he has empathy and understanding for different kinds of people. He often acts as a bridge. For Jon to try and negotiate with all of the other leaders within Westeros seems much more in line with his book counterpart.
      He does tries to capture some wights/ bodies for experimentation in books. This mission is somewhat similar.

      My personal theory is that Jon is still basically following his Nights Watch vows, without physically being at the Wall. At least the older part of the Nights Watch vows, that is why it always seemed plausible that he would go South in this story.

      He is gathering as much people as possible to fight against the White Walkers. But the vows also says that:

      I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men.

      The horn that wakes the sleepers, imo means that he also has to warn others against this threat. That is why I ve always believed that Jon would go South. It is good to gather as many men as possible but people should also be warned.
      Going on this mission will provide concrete proof, he can warn the people, and he might potentially get more out of it.
      In the first place it is a bad idea for all of these armies to just keep on wiping each other out, they could be fighting for a better cause. In the second place fighting wars creates dead bodies, and dead bodies can be reanimated.

      Jon has always been the voice of reason. Being a negotiator in this sequence is what his arc has always been leading up to. He is also the person with the most experience of White Walkers and wights so it makes sense for him to go on this mission.

      We know from the leaks that Jon is actually somewhat successful since Jaime will go North with likely the Lannister army to fight against the White Walkers.

      It is a bit eye rolling that Jon always has to be saved, but I guess this is also partly what makes him more likeable or relatable as a character. He isn’t the type of hero who is always strong and winning. All of his victories are hard work and usually comes with sacrifice.

      But, I do agree that they went to far with this last season for the Battle of the Bastards. It seems like the problem was that they just wanted the Vale to ride in and save the day. They bended the story so that almost no Northern Lords would support Jon.

      Now that we know that Littlefinger will be disposed of in season 7, it really doesn’t make sense why the Vale and Littlefinger had to save the day so badly. It is somewhat unnecessary.

      If Littlefinger arrived after the Battle was won by the Stark forces, it would still have been similar. He could still have allied himself to the Starks and the North, and they might have been weary of Littlefinger because they wouldn’t have enough soldiers left to fight against a bigger Vale army if he turned against them. It could have been an uneasy allience.
      It really wasn’t necessary for the Vale to ride in and save the day, aand it just lead to bad writing.

      The Umbers sided with Ramsay, or rather give Rickon away due to some ridiculous reasoning. The Vale can travel though Moat Cailin and the whole North without being detected, and Sansa doesn’t tell the few poor Northern Lords who have sided with them and Jon, that there is another army on the way.

      This wight hunting expedition sounds much more logical to me then the battle of the Bastards.

      The only thing about the wight hunting expedition that I dont like, is all of these people being airlifted by dragons.
      That would be terrible, since dragons aren’t known for carrying people around and having many riders.

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    201. Lyanna_Targaryem,

      Because if the wall has already fallen, explain to me how Jon and his wight hunting squad move faster with a captured wight than the Night King and his zombie army? Besides, if the White Walkers are heading south, thousands of ravens are going to fly from each and every castle in the North and Riverlands, which makes the whole “wight proof” thing somewhat reduntant.

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    202. arvagar: Dany is true heir to throne – appointed by Viserys, Jon Snow is bastard aside that Aerys disinherited Rhaegar’s line so even if by some miracle he is legit targaryen ,he still has weaker claim than Dany

      You need to provide some proof for that statement. On what page is it written that Rhaegar was disinherited?

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    203. Boudica,

      Bran is new 3ER so him sending Benjen makes sense. Actualy Benjen being North of the Wall and helping Jon is final conclusion of his story. They’ll meet again.
      Pretty sure leaks said Jon and Dany went to Dragonstone after King’s Landing to plan and prepare tactics against undead, Then North on the boat with Unsullied and but they’re nowhere to be seen. Cersei is bullshitting them about support and wants unead to thin out her enemies. I think leaks stated Jaime gets on his horse alone and ride off to the North. Basically, achieving what fans wanted him to separate himself from Cersei.

      H.Stark,

      Yeah, Kit just went straight to taxi besides driver and Iain performing stunt. 😀

        Quote  Reply

    204. Flayed Potatoes,

      I was calm thank you ..I don’t know what I said wrong in the that post. I also used Lena and speaking specially about them using kit’s skills ..I dont know what’s so negative about it .its a fact that having a battle in the north has become sort part of show since season 4 …when two out of four will never happen in the books ( and before if anyone tries to tell me this is not the books . pls save it I know they are not the same)

      And if you have read my previous post in the past you would know its not even about dany when I was speaking about battles…I was speaking about a proper battle in the south happening atleast once in the show..and before someone says there are no actors with kit’s talent ( Blackwater was not about wielding swords)..or they don’t have characters that people care of ( which is exactly what was said about WoTW and look how it turned out)

      . God forbid this show actually try and give another protagonist something to do. The whole world should revolve around Snowflake Targaryen and her troubles. /sarcasm

      are you talking about jon snow in your post that’s what I was speaking about because the whole story should be about him and his troubles right..we can’t have focus on another character

      We can’t have another battle in the same episode where the battle happens in the north even if that was supposed to be 15 to 20 mins ( BoTB) …
      But now you guys are talking about other characters and focusing please say this is a joke ..

      We can’t have jon sit around for a season but where were you guys where other protagonists were put aside and kept stalled to have other plot points to reach certain point

      Dany’s conquest and battle..something that is supposed to be happen in the books with 6 books and 6 seasons in the making and one of three plot points of the series..
      Whereas this whole wight mission I don’t believe we will be getting something like this is in the books..

      So forgive me for hoping something that focuses on south for a once in an already shortened season but only to be disappointed that’s not the case .

      And speaking about the Ambush scene ..the name itself gives away right…ambush not a battle ..iam sure this will be like previous seasons episode 4 involving dany ..

      Geralt of Rivia,

      Iam wondering what you said in that post against dany that iam not OK ..I was under the impression it was a debate too and answering your question anyway I get it am fanatic but you guys are not.

      Again Forgive me for hoping for once just once something that focuses on the other characters ..

      No one is speaking about what hard home is whether its a massacre or a battle…or dumbing down characters or getting saved…all the characters are dumbed down and made act stupidly and foolishly not just jon.

      Hardhome is a massacre alright but its a defining moment of season 5 ..for a show which is famous for doing epic episode 9’s we have to go and do a episode 8 and I did like what season they decided to that .
      BoTB and WoTW and Hardhome are their seasons best respectively ..no one speaks about dumbing down or getting saved when speaking about these episodes ..
      You guys can whine about these things but iam not allowed to ..OK I get it iam a fanatic right

      In all those episodes the focus is on jon and thats what matters and that’s what I was speaking about …
      So again forgive me for hoping that another character for once getting an opportunity like that ..

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    205. aeris,

      Every character acts foolishly and dumbed down in the show..
      Atleast jon gets the entire episode focused on him which turns out to be sesson’s highlight compare this with other characters..

      Jon Snowed,

      Let me see this is how it goes right .
      They all go this parlay to convince cersei and somewhat achieve this by at least making Jamie believe ..
      Then it is revealed Jon’s parentage .which is going to make dany throw fits and says fuck this iam the rightful heir and starts the war again…
      Now jon tyrion and jamie will need to put away dany and unite against WW ..
      Yeah can see that happening .

        Quote  Reply

    206. elybe,

      Ooooo this makes a lot of sense. I never thought about it that way. I kept asking myself why are they bringing Cersei into the fold? Duh, they don’t want more dead corpses to add to the NK’s army. Not even Tyrion could argue with that logic.

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    207. I still don’t believe the “leak” is true. A bit too fan service to my taste. I think someone saw the same pictures we did and made guesses. Some are right, some are wrong.

        Quote  Reply

    208. Stargaryen,

      The leak came before most of the pictures. 90% of the filming info that came after has lined up with what the leak said.

      Also, season 6 already proved that they don’t shy away from fanservice.

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    209. The idea that

      Jon hunts and produces a wight to convince everyone to work together against their common threat doesn’t bother me because there is a precedent for the idea in GRRM’s writing. I will wait and see how it plays out, but I, personally, think it could be very exciting.

      From “The World of Ice and Fire:”

      According to these tales, the return of the sun came only when a hero convinced Mother Rhoyne’s many children- lesser gods such as the Crab King and the Old Man of the River- to put aside bickering and join together to sing a secret song that brought back the day. -The Long Night, pg. 11

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    210. BunBunStark: Those are words I never thought I’d read. But, yes, Sandor Clegane is on Team Jon. And it makes me giddy.

      Ah, Sandor Clegane on Team Jon – it makes me giddy too!!! And given that he protected both Sansa and Arya in the past, I think Jon will take to him. And they can talk about Needle! Arya told Sandor that her brother gave her Needle (though she did not specify which one) and Jon will be able to tell Sandor that it was him. While Syrio was her first instructor, Sandor taught Arya a lot about how to use Needle. And Sandor has seen Beric resurrected, so it is likely he will accept the truth about Jon’s resurrection pretty easily.

      Re: Team Jon generally, I would love a Sandor/Tormund bonding scene in which they eat a lot of chicken.

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    211. Jon Snowed,
      Aerys made Viserys his heir over Rhaegar’s kids while they were still alive. Who then made Daenerys his heir. I read the book last year so it is still fresh in my mind.
      Besides, any second marriage Rhaegar had would not be recognized. The most possible way for anyone to view jon as Targaryen is if his aunt, the unmistakable Targaryen, were to support it.

        Quote  Reply

    212. dragonmcmx,

      I have no idea about that bridge (isn´t it at Shadow Tower??) xD. I think there are islands at the east of the Wall but I don´t know anything about the “west” of EbtS.

        Quote  Reply

    213. Stargaryen,

      Leak is legit as in broad strokes. wight hunt, dragonpit, Dtragonstone everything correct. But we don’t know tons of other things such as scenes for certain characters elsehwhere, how it fits into general story and arc. We don’t know much about Winterfell. Fan service? What exactly?

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    214. I made my peace with the leaks.

      As I was just recently let down hugely by some people who – as I thought – put out compelling info that would falsify something of the leaked plot on reddit, whose drama I watched unfold from the very beginning, I just stop trusting tinfoilers and accept that´s what we will get.

      Even if it saddens me greatly.

        Quote  Reply

    215. Abbie,

      Only Dornish as Aegon and Rhaenys. Jon was secret and since that world is choosing male over female. Heck, they choose bastard over trueborn in their eyes, kingslaying is not a crime as Euron killed Balon and admitted. Who is legitimate really is pointless. Anyone who wants it will have to fight it. Jon neither wants nor he’ll fight for it.

      What is interesting what is Jon’s parentage good for, besides his identity crisis. He’s not gonna all of sudden turn to Targs. Is it only designed to add more conflict to Jon and any relationship, that would weak and kinda reducing it to only this. It’s not nlike with will matetr to iron throne bur wonder why and where it will matter.

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    216. Geralt of Rivia:

      What is interesting what is Jon’s parentage good for, besides his identity crisis. He’s not gonna all of sudden turn to Targs. Is it only designed to add more conflict to Jon and any relationship, that would weak and kinda reducing it to only this. It’s not nlike with will matetr to iron throne bur wonder why and where it will matter.

      It has to matter somehow, right? You don’t give a character the seemingly unique magical bloodline that Jon Snow has without it meaning something!

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    217. God this fandom is obnoxious as fuck,enjoy bitching about everything since that’s all you seem to do nowadays and before some smug moron try to say that it’s fair criticism,no it’s not,you obviously don’t have a fucking clue of what that even means when you say the show is shit just by reading some second hand spoilers of an illiterate person from reddit . I appreciate all the good people here especialy the admins but i can’t be apart of this toxic shithole anymore,sorry !

        Quote  Reply

    218. Abbie,

      I have a feeling that Rhaegar and Lyanna knew each other before the tournament at Harrenhal. The whole story of Rhaegar going out in disguises sometimes to sing at taverns has to be there for a reason.

        Quote  Reply

    219. Alba Stark,

      When the tree wizard who’s giving you a crash course in Apocalypse Prevention keeps bringing you to the site of your cousin’s mysterious birth, it’s pretty safe to say that it means something.

        Quote  Reply

    220. Geralt of Rivia: Pretty sure leaks said Jon and Dany went to Dragonstone after King’s Landing to plan and prepare tactics against undead, Then North on the boat with Unsullied and but they’re nowhere to be seen. Cersei is bullshitting them about support and wants unead to thin out her enemies. I think leaks stated Jaime gets on his horse alone and ride off to the North. Basically, achieving what fans wanted him to separate himself from Cersei.

      Going by the thread on reddit that has all of the leaks in a time line, I dont see anything about them going back to Dragonstone, after Kings Landing. It is only said that Jon and Dany goes North in a boat and have sex. That doesn’t really answer the question conclusively.

      It is difficult when the leaks aren’t around to look at anymore.

        Quote  Reply

    221. Alba Stark:

      Re: Team Jon generally, I would love a Sandor/Tormund bonding scene in which they eat a lot of chicken.

      I would be very interested to see interactions between those two characters! Most of GoT’s road-buddy comedy so far has come from ‘odd couple’ matchups. Sandor and Tormund have more in common than most, and might get on like gangbusters (though I could imagine Rory’s dubious facial expressions when his pal proves to understand nothing of southron battle tactics). It would be fun to see them on a pub crawl together – perhaps with teetotalling Brienne playing the role of designated driver.

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    222. Jon’s Mom:
      Jenny,

      Wights can just play dead too. The wight got up when he had a chance to kill Commander Mormont but not before.

      At that point in the TV series, they were still remaining consistent with the books, in which the wights are dormant in the daytime and reanimate at night. The battle at the Fist of the First Men happens after dark in the books, if memory serves. But the showrunners threw that explanation out the window when they staged Hardhome in daylight.

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    223. Stannisisdead,

      I may absent myself for a while, Stannis. I’m more bothered that there are leaks at all – somebody obviously want to spoil things. Of course nobody including me has to scroll past the spoiler warnings but it’s a case of “the spirit is willing but the flesh it is weak” in my case so it’s probably best if I stay away and then don’t get tempted to click on the spoilers.

      Jack Bauer 24:
      There’s something really weird about that pic with Emilia and the kids…so she is supposed to be there favorite character, but what in the world are those children doing watching GoT?

      Could it be that their parents know the pulling power of cute kids and put the kids in Emilia’s way (the writing on the banner looks quite adult to me and ‘fansii’ could be an accidental on purpose mistake).

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    224. Okay, this may be very ignorant of me, but do you know why Emilia always has her wig wrapped? Are they afraid of getting things trapped in it somehow? Do they put it as a precaution for wind and rain? :S

        Quote  Reply

    225. Firannion: I would be very interested to see interactions between those two characters! Most of GoT’s road-buddy comedy so far has come from ‘odd couple’ matchups. Sandor and Tormund have more in common than most, and might get on like gangbusters (though I could imagine Rory’s dubious facial expressions when his pal proves to understand nothing of southron battle tactics). It would be fun to see them on a pub crawl together – perhaps with teetotalling Brienne playing the role of designated driver.

      It would be interesting and entertaining on so many levels for these two to have a scene/scenes together! There is also the religious element – Sandor may have no use for it, but he is travelling with R’hllor worshipers, and Tormund isn’t too fond of them, given Melisandre’s penchant for burning people.

      I do like the idea of them going on a pub crawl together. See, now I want to watch this too!

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    226. Ok guys, I have not read the leaks, not read this article beyong the spoiler alert and have not read any of your comments due to spoiler-phobia, but I really wanted to ask something that I don’t remember from the first season (and I have not read the books): wasn’t Jorah on Varys’ payroll to spie on Daenerys, and wasn’t Varys on the “kill this girl” team back then when Robert Baratheon wanted to eliminate the menace that she presented? Back when Ned refused and resigned?
      How come he’s her ally now? Does Daenerys know?

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    227. Dame of Mercia,

      I think this is not fansii but rather the spanish exclamation points that are upside down at the beginning of a frase. Like We are your biggest fans ¡¡we want a photo with you!! ( the part of the frase with the exclamation is between exclamation points (at the beginning they are reverse exclamation points).

        Quote  Reply

    228. Firannion: I would be very interested to see interactions between those two characters! Most of GoT’s road-buddy comedy so far has come from ‘odd couple’ matchups. Sandor and Tormund have more in common than most, and might get on like gangbusters (though I could imagine Rory’s dubious facial expressions when his pal proves to understand nothing of southron battle tactics). It would be fun to see them on a pub crawl together – perhaps with teetotalling Brienne playing the role of designated driver.

      Alba Stark: It would be interesting and entertaining on so many levels for these two to have a scene/scenes together!There is also the religious element – Sandor may have no use for it, but he is travelling with R’hllor worshipers, and Tormund isn’t too fond of them, given Melisandre’s penchant for burning people.

      I do like the idea of them going on a pub crawl together. See, now I want to watch this too!

      This is gold. I also would pay to see Tormund’s look of awe and pride when Sandor says something like “Dumb bitch pretty much killed me.” ? *crush intensifies*

      Pointy End:
      Okay, this may be very ignorant of me, but do you know why Emilia always has her wig wrapped? Are they afraid of getting things trapped in it somehow? Do they put it as a precaution for wind and rain? :S

      Not ignorant at all, I think you are right, it’s to protect it from getting mussed up when not filming (imagine the work that goes into some of the hairstyles!) and protect it from wind and humidity. ?

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    229. Lulus Mum:
      Black Raven,
      Now you’ve ruined my image of you. I thought you were bird and some pesky human had come and perched underneath you while you were caw-cawing ?

      I’ve cared for dozens of crows and ravens over the years, and let me tell you, us silly humans are usually very much ‘under their thumb/claws’!!! Now I’m picturing the raven typing out the posts here, telling his human to ‘knock it off and stop shitting on everything’ in the background. ?

        Quote  Reply

    230. dragonmcmx,

      Bran was touched by the night king which meant he broke the magic barrier at the great weir wood tree which should mean when he passes the wall the magic spells on the wall will be lifted allowing walkers and maybe whites to pass also benjen stark

        Quote  Reply

    231. Sou,

      You are correct, Jorah was one of Varys’s “little birds” 😀 in S1.

      This inconsistency might arise from the fact that while making S1, D&D didn’t know how many seasons they’d get to make (their first goal was to get to make the Red Wedding – S3) and hadn’t perfectly mapped out all future seasons.

      There’s a book character (introduced in book 5, which didn’t come out until D&D had already strarted making the show) that Varys is alligned with, but that character doesn’t appear in the TV show, so having Varys allign with Dany might be a substitute for that. His remarks to Illyrio Mopatis (that Arya witnesses after chasing cats) fit with him having been a Dany-supporter all along. He also apparently sent Jorah a message warning him about the poisoning attempt. shrug.

      But you’re right, this is why having Varys suddenly appear beside Dany aboard the ship in last season’s finale annoyed me. Not because of “jetpacking”, but because I would’ve wanted to see their first meeting. How would Dany react to him? Why would she trust him? (Tyrion vouching for Varys?)

      However, remember that Jorah had already gone off looking for Dany before Varys turned up in Meereen, and when Dany returns (and presumably meets Varys), Jorah’s gone to find a cure for his greyscale. So I think it’s apparent that as of S6 finale, Dany does not know about Varys’s old deal with Jorah. Now, if she finds out in S7, that could create some problems and/or friction.

      That’s what I like. By now, so many characters have “history” with several other characters, it’s going to be interesting to see how they’ll be able (or not) to put past grievances behind themselves and unite for the real war.

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    232. Pigeon:
      This is gold. I also would pay to see Tormund’s look of awe and pride when Sandor says something like “Dumb bitch pretty much killed me.” *crush intensifies*

      Ah, I’m loving your work, Firannion, Alba Stark and Pigeon! 😀

      Can we add Jaime walking in, getting all knightly and jealous and
      (book spoiler)

      “RedRonneting” Sandor and/or Tormund? 😀 Though, Jaime might not be able to do that to them and Brienne might have to save his precious Lannister arse, lol!

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    233. Sou,

      talvikorppi:

      But you’re right, this is why having Varys suddenly appear beside Dany aboard the ship in last season’s finale annoyed me. Not because of “jetpacking”, but because I would’ve wanted to see their first meeting. How would Dany react to him? Why would she trust him? (Tyrion vouching for Varys?)

      Daenerys trusts Varys because Tyrion vouched for Varys’s loyalty to her during their conversation in Season 5’s “Hardhome”.

      Tyrion: “It’s not impossible that Varys was right about you after all.”

      Dany: “Varys? King Robert’s spymaster?”

      Tyrion: “Yes. He was the one who convinced me to come find you. He was my travelling companion before Ser Jorah seized that role for himself.”

      Dany: “Jorah sent my secrets to Varys. For twenty years the Spider oversaw the campaign to find and kill me.”

      Tyrion: “He did what he had to do to survive. He did a lot of other things as well – things he didn’t have to do. I suspect he’s the main reason you weren’t slaughtered in your crib.”

      Dany: “But you trust him?”

      Tyrion: “Yes, oddly. He may be the only person in the world I trust …”

      So Dany knows everything. She knows about Jorah reporting to Varys, and Varys’s secret Targaryen allegiance. By now she has forgiven Jorah and she trusts Tyrion, so we can safely infer by Varys’s presence on her ship that she has forgiven and trusts him as well. At this point, Grey Worm and Missandei also know Varys, and can corroborate that Varys worked to further Dany’s interests during his time in Meereen.

      I agree that it would have been nice to see their first meeting, but I’ll happily take the epic season-ending shot that we got of them all standing assembled on the deck of the ship, sailing west.

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    234. Vally,

      All of them will be north though, it can cut to them easily enough because there is enough characters there for a story but there isn’t where Cersei is, Jamie, Bronn and her army would of all left so the only characters with her are Qyburn and The Mountain, I doubt Cersei will be leaving the Red Keep with just them so I can’t see a substantial storyline with her during the WW arc at all

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    235. Jared:
      Sou,

      Daenerys trusts Varys because Tyrion vouched for Varys’s loyalty to her during their conversation in Season 5’s “Hardhome”….

      So Dany knows everything. She knows about Jorah reporting to Varys, and Varys’s secret Targaryen allegiance. By now she has forgiven Jorah and she trusts Tyrion, so we can safely infer by Varys’s presence on her ship that she has forgiven and trusts him as well. I agree that it would have been nice to see their first meeting,

      Varys is definitely one of the most ‘whitewashed’ characters in the show. They take his protestations of being loyal only to the realm at face value. Book!Varys is a much greyer and more slippery character – not quite as shady as Baelish, but close. Even his commitment to Illyrio and Team Griffs seems to be more subtle than it appears on the surface. Wheels within wheels.

        Quote  Reply

    236. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      They will, both in the series and the books. There are way too many signs that point us in that direction, GRRM dropped subtle hints all the way through the story and D&D interwovened them with the characters’ development, it was a slow, sturdy build, beautifully balanced on both parts.

      r-hard,

      Season 7 in one word, right there. You nailed it buddy.

      Geralt of Rivia,

      Maybe Dany doesn’t go with them in the first place because she has more important stuff to do but choses Jorah to go in her stead whom she trusts completely and who is faithful and loyal to her. I think in her heart, she believes Jon but the rational move is to hold her ground and wait, not fly all over Westeros with Drogon Airlines. Maybe she’ll

      change her mind and follow them afterwards to arrive just in time to save them, maybe Melisandre warns her somehow, maybe she just feels it, or maybe she never saves their asses, some die and some survive and then go to KL.

      I don’t think Bran will be in on the fun, he won’t know wth is going on.

        Quote  Reply

    237. keltia,

      I hated the idea of this wight hunt with a passion from the very moment I first read about it but if there is a director that can turn me into a believer and make it work, it’s Alan Taylor. I trust that man, he won’t let us down. And I trust Dan & David won’t let the story dim right before it’s climax. People need to have a little faith and enjoy the ride, no matter how dumb it may sound.

      Luka Nieto,

      I agree. As Baelish said, ‘We make peace with our enemies, not with our friends.’ Besides, I don’t think Cersei will go for it in the end, I think she’ll see this as an opportunity to get rid of the Targaryen usurper and her Northern allies and that will be her downfall in the end. I bet Jaime will see right through her.

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    238. Not a barca or Sevilla fan myself but just saw the king slayer & euron on the jumbo tron to the build up of the game at the Ramon Sanchez pozjuan stadium in Seville

        Quote  Reply

    239. Sou,

      You remember everything right, but it was made pretty clear that Varys was playing a double game and that he was supporting Dany (and Viseirys) since S1, when Arya saw him with Ilyrio Molpatis.

        Quote  Reply

    240. Jack Bauer 24:
      Emilia said filming is halfway over. We might be getting Season 7 a lot earlier than Summer.

      I took that to mean her filming is half way over. Let’s say Dany is in 20 scenes in S7, Emily has now filmed 10, so half way over, from Emily’s point of view. She’s not keeping track of the whole production.

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    241. Myname,

      My boyfriend is watching the game…..every minute before the start of the game the camera focused on Jaime fucking Lannister………

        Quote  Reply

    242. Jack Bauer 24: Now why does she say they are halfway done filming? Aren’t they filming into February? They’ve filmed for a little over 2 months and there’s 4 left?

      Halfway through filming in Seville.

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    243. aeris,

      Actually all the cast except Nikolaj and Pilou Asbek are sitting in the VIP rooms of the stadium……..Alfie,Kit , Nikolaj and Liam they are not wearing Seville scarf…….OMG i am sitting and watching Spanish League only for them…….

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    244. talvikorppi: I took that to mean her filming is half way over. Let’s say Dany is in 20 scenes in S7, Emily has now filmed 10, so half way over, from Emily’s point of view. She’s not keeping track of the whole production.

      Her name is Emilia. And she was probably talking about filming in Seville.

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    245. BlueRoseofWinterfell,

      Jaime’s actor Nikolaij Coster-Waldau is a well-known football fan. He’s even involved in some Unicef-sponsored football initiative to bring peace and love into our world.

      Also, as per Aeris‘s links to pics above, the others seem to be ensconced in the hospitality (indoor) box but Nikolaij and Pilou Asbaek (a fellow Dane) are actually in the stands, watching the game. (And Nik is not wearing the Sevilla scarf they all were presented with – a true diplomat.)

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    246. Purpleofhair: Her name is Emilia. And she was probably talking about filming in Seville.

      I apologise wholeheartedly. I hate it when people spell my name wrong, there’s no excuse, not even “hurry”, for spelling the delectable Emilia’s name wrong.

      And, yeah, she was talking about filming in Spain/Sevilla or her n scenes and now she’s completed n/2. It does not mean half of the whole production’s filming is done, so we all, including Jack Bauer 24, have to wait until “summer” 2017 for S7.

        Quote  Reply

    247. Pigeon,
      I have cats and it’s much the same thing. Your offering does not please me human, find something more suitable and then worship me with stroking and telling me how beautiful I am, while not minding my leaving hair everywhere, knocking things over, trying to eat your food etc 😀

        Quote  Reply

    248. keltia,

      Nah, it’ll be Almodóvar del Río, still in Andalusia, but in the province of Córdoba instead of Seville. Then they’ll move to Cáceres —the city, Trujillo Castle, and Malpartida. I explained it more thoroughly here.

      And don’t worry about the accents 🙂

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    249. I’m assuming no one cares about people talking about the ‘leaks’ anymore, then?

      Lulus Mum:
      Pigeon,
      I have cats and it’s much the same thing. Your offering does not please me human, find something more suitable and then worship me with stroking and telling me how beautiful I am, while not minding my leaving hair everywhere, knocking things over, trying to eat your food etc ?

      Oh yes, mine are the same! And they love to walk directly in front of my feet and randomly stop. I’m not sure how this can possibly be an evolutionary advantage for them, but perhaps it’s worth potentially being stepped on just for the pure frustration it causes the silly humans? ?

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    250. keltia:
      Luka Nieto,

      Moltes gracies.(If anyone knows how I can insert letters with accent marks on a laptop (PC) born in 2007, please let me know).

      You can put your numeric keypad on Num Lock and use your Alt key plus 3-number codes to insert characters with accents and other diacritical markings. For instance, ALT-130 gives you the é for words like café and José. Google Alternate Character Set for a list of commonly used codes.

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    251. Luka Nieto,

      Ok 🙂 still,it´s nice to see you are on alert for meanies…It´s great to read the fun debates but when someone just wants to rain on everybody´s parade it´s really disheartening…I ´ll keep hoping for that flashback

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    252. Green Chili,

      “Spamming” is a bit of a strong term. I’ll voice my opinion if I think it’s relevant. Relevancy may change as we learn more about the season, as may my opinion. Besides, one look at my post history will reveal that I contribute a lot more than “permanently spamming”.

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    253. Irina Stark,

      I think Dany will believe Jon pretty soon. In the beginning she may get a bit angry that her plans are being wrecked by this Force Majeure or she will get angry at herself for getting involved into the war for the IT and losing a big part of her army, but all this drama won’t take more than an episode. The fact that Jorah has been seen leaving together with Jon implies that at this point (end of Ep 5 probably) Dany will be already taking the WW threat seriously: she wouldn’t be risking the life of her most trusted friend otherwise.

      As for why she wont be going with them, there can be a number of reasons.

      First of all, the mission is supposed to be stealth, and therefore dragons will have to be kept out of sight. Secondly, Dany may have to remain on Dragonstone to prevent Cersei from taking it over: I imagine that Dragonstone will be their last bargaining chip, “the dagger at the throat” according to GoT History and Lore. And finally, Dany’s participation in the mission rescue may be simply planed, because that’s how such missions usually happen: a small force sneaks in, accomplished its task (which inevitably puts the enemy on alert), and then airborne force comes to promote support and evacuation. I believe dragons can fly fast and their telepathic abilities can substitute conventional communication means. A trope, but it always looks good on screen (event when filmed at real war BTW).

      The main thing that bothers me now, after I made peace with this wight sequence in general, is the supposed death of one of Dany’s dragons (Viserion) and it’s reanimation by the Night King. If WW can kill dragons just like that and moreover reanimate them as their own mounts, dragons won’t be of any use in this war, and I would advise to Valyria or elsewhere ASAP. I still hope that Viserion’s conversion will be the result of some actions and selfish interests of the humans (Cersei), because that would make sense: humans are their own worst enemies, not some supernatural forces. And BTW if Cersei indeed confesses that she only pretends to support Jon and Dany in their quest in order to have them destroyed by the WW, as the leak says, it implies that she may take some actions to destroy the Wall or its protection.

      So, my principal guess that Cersei will be seeking some sort of alliance with the Night’s King may turn out to be true after all, though the public revolt in KL seems to be postponed till S8.

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    254. Firannion,

      Depends on what keyboard you have. I have the Scandinavian one, so ä, ö, å are actual keys, ü (German) is easy (two strokes, no shift or control+ whatever needed) and accents gráve and àgue are a stroke + relevant letter away. The cedille is difficult, though. French/Portuguese keyboards would have it on tap, I’d think.

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    255. talvikorppi:
      Jared,

      Ah, thank you, Jared!

      I’d forgotten the details of that scene. So, Sou, disregard just about everything I just wrote.

      I still thank you for the good will!
      And Jared, you must know the whole series by heart.
      Thank you!

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    256. talvikorppi,

      Inga,

      I can’t use the Insert/Symbol feature on my ancient laptop for my comments here. What works, however, is a combination of the Control key plus symbols such as ^ or ‘ and the letter. Many thanks to you both (and Firannion) for your help.

      (Having spent the entire afternoon on WotW, it’s now time to bake some banana bread).

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    257. Inga,

      I see your point but I just don’t see the Night King being willing to play along with anyone .. The dude is the physical embodiment of death, as ironic as it is for he was a human changed to protect the world from humans, he is absolute evil but not unbeatable – he doesn’t speak, he doesn’t have any sort of emotion, all he does is emanate fear. Death comes for everyone, regardless of their political status, financial situation or prowess. That’s kind of the whole point of the WW.

      They’d destroy his character by making him associate with anything that isn’t already dead.
      I just want Cersei to be her normal badass self and cause mischief for everyone, it’s what she excels at. I hope they keep her around for as long as possible.

      As for Viserion, that part is the only one that doesn’t make sense to me in these leaks. We know the NK can ressurect living beings into his service but a zombie ice dragon mount for the King of Death sounds like a wee bit of a stretch for me. Even for Game Of Thrones™. I think they’re just gonna kill Viserion and be done with it. My question is … If Dany rides on Drogon to save them, wtf would Viserion be doing there ? Is she taking all three dragons just to capture a wight ? Wouldn’t Dany’s babies just burn NK instantly? If they die that easily then that means they’re absolutely f*cking useless in the war for the Dawn and Dany is in deep trouble.

      I don’t know .. Something just doesn’t add up. I’m still hella skeptical about that part, it sounds like waaay too much to digest.

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    258. Which would be worse, the actors losing their heads from all the adulation or their characters literally losing their heads?

        Quote  Reply

    259. Inga,

      As for Jon and Dany, I am certain that if there will be any sort of doubt in her heart about him, it will completely dissapear when he’ll leave Dragonstone. She will see that he is willing to risk his life to bring proof of the WW, which is why she will send Jorah along with them.
      And once she will set her eyes upon that wight, her fate will be bound to Jon’s unconditionally and irrevocably.

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    260. asoiaf fan,

      I see your point but I don’t think we need to worry. Jon reminds me more of Ned than of Robb but only a tiny bit.
      He’s his own man now, he made his own choices and owned up to them, as Davos said to him “Go fail again, fight for as long as you can, clean as much of the sh*t as you can.” If his destiny is bound by anyone else’s, it isn’t Robb’s or Ned’s, it’s Dany’s just because of the many parallels and similarities between them. I’ve always felt they were meant to end up together for some reason, since the very first season. Call it intuition.

      Thus being said, that

      boat sex scene

      is inevitable at this point. And even though they probably won’t last till the very end, I still blindly hope that they will.

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    261. Come on, you guys, you need to cover potential spoilers that have not even remotely been covered here at Watchers. When in doubt, cover it up.

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    262. I’m seeing a lot of people presuming that the Night’s King will be able to follow Bran through the Wall the same way he got into Weirnet Central. It’s possible, but we don’t truly know that for a fact as yet. That mark that he put on Bran’s arm might be good for one-time use only. It might heal or fade with time. I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that Bran can’t pass the Wall without breaching its magic. If that were so, it seems likely that Bloodraven or Benjen would have thought to warn him.

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    263. steppenwolf:
      Jon Snowed,

      Yes, it could be. I never understood why most people are so certain about Aegon winning the throne and being the one Daenerys has to fight.

      Yes, a lot of people apparently have read TWOW!

      The terrible alternative, of course, is that these people are genuinely comparing the developments in the show to their preferred imaginary fan fiction for TWOW and ADOS. That’s not a good strategy, especially when TWOW is released and many of their favorite theories crumble down.

      Despite the many criticisms and insults thrown towards D&D, the fact remains they know more of how the rest of the story will develop than any of us. Based on that, they are making their decisions, sometimes choosing to stay faithful, sometimes choosing to stray from the source material; but always with that outline of the endgame in hand, which we don’t have access to. People should probably keep that in mind. Their storylines, with changes or not, are more informed and grounded by ASOIAF’s true ending than the fandom’s theories.

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    264. Boudica,

      Read it om tumblr, there is complete summary of it.

      Alba Stark,

      I think so. Besides Jon’s moral dilemma, it needs to serve the story somehow. Prophecy or iron throne. Somehow. More towards prophecy., since Bran’s visions were tied to white waers invasion.

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    265. steppenwolf,

      Luka Nieto,

      The thing is these two are different problems..

      Iam someone who believes YG will be dead inTWOw before dany even reaches westeros and it will be cersei she will be facing when she comes.

      Cersei surviving YG is one thing and surviving dany and tyrion is completely another thing.
      Iam wondering how YMBQ and valanqor comes to play in all of this…and show’s vision if blown up KL

      If Jamie kills cersei it would have been mentioned in leaks I think..

      Or they could simply extending cersei demise by making her appear in season 8 ..she can be killed like jofferey in episode 2..

      I still think there is somethings that is supposed to be happening in dragonpit or after this meeting that we don’t know from the leaks..
      Maybe iam in denial but iam going to have this belief till I watch the episode..

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    266. dragonbringer,

      The leaks are only very basic and mainly about Jon and Dany, I imagine a hell lot more is gonna happen. If the leaks were the entire season it would be a lot shorter than seven episodes. I imagine a few things are gonna happen at Dragon Pit more anyway than one conversation considering all the work they put into the location but we won’t know until the season airs.

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    267. Good gosh, so much drama in one little comment.

      I especially love the whole “if you read the books you’d feel like me too” theme. Funny. Many of us who have read the books disagree with you, or at least are willing to wait and see.

      And I’m pretty sure the Middle Ages differed from GoT quite considerably.

      Kathy: I’m with you. Now that the leaks have been confirmed, I’m going to sit out the rest of the series as that means the stupid Twihard romance is likely true as well. The wight thing is just stupid beyond belief and goes against everything we were told in the books. I get that the series and books are different but come on – people watched the series because it wasn’t the usual LOTR drivel. Ever since Martin stopped working on the show – you can really see the decline in writing.

      So disappointed in D&D and Martin if he’s sanctioned this crap. I know it’s hard for some to understand but if you’ve read the books – it was wonderful to find an author that wasn’t afraid to turn the usual fantasy and romance trope on it’s head and show the Middle Ages for what it truly was.

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    268. Irina Stark,

      “I see your point but I just don’t see the Night King being willing to play along with anyone. The dude is the physical embodiment of death, as ironic as it is for he was a human changed to protect the world from humans, he is absolute evil but not unbeatable – he doesn’t speak, he doesn’t have any sort of emotion, all he does is emanate fear. Death comes for everyone, regardless of their political status, financial situation or prowess. That’s kind of the whole point of the WW.”

      I have a slightly different opinion on the Night King and his goals. IMO, he and his race has pretty much the same instinct as humans (or beavers or most of other living beings) do: they want to procreate and spread and adapt the environment to their own need. But they are very few and they can’t reproduce otherwise than by converting human babies. I suppose adults can be converted as well, but it might be too risky, because a convert may preserve too much of initial personality and chose to fight for the living as Benjen Stark did. Hence, the WW prefer babies. But if they kill all the people of Westeros, they will get only wights (and that won’t be enough to conquer Essos or whatever else). Hence, the WW need to preserve some humans (scared and obedient) to promote them regular supply of babies (and maybe wights as well).

      And that’s exactly how they worked beyond the Wall: first they allowed humans to settle and procreate there after the Long Ningt; then they started terrorizing them, but those who obeyed and agreed on child offerings enjoyed safety. Craster was one of those, there could be other too (at least in the books). So it’s legit to assume the WW might be looking for new Crasters beyond the Wall too.

      And hardly they think of themselves as bad guys: they don’t harm the babies; quite on the contrary they give them immortality, something humans have always sought. All in all the WW are not just death, they come with ideology, they intend to break the wheel (the circle of life and death) and replace it with eternal preservation in ice. And some GoT characters may find it rather attractive: communication line is all they need. And even without communication they might to try to do a favor to the Night King hoping for some pay-off or simply out of hatred to their own world. So, I can totally see Cersei going this path: she is suicidal and always has been, but she won’t go alone and

      pregnancy won’t change that (I suspect that it will end with an abortion, rather that by a miscarriage).

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    269. ThisGirlHasNoName,

      I don’t get where you see a “stupid twihard romance” coming our way. Please do explain.
      From what I’ve gathered, there is no mention of that, just a

      sex scene

      and I very much doubt it will be a cliche since those two have never even seen each other.
      I’ve read the books too and I really don’t see your point.
      Aren’t you being a little over dramatic and jumping the shark here ?

        Quote  Reply

    270. Inga,

      That’s a good way to put it. I always thought they took those baby boys to simply enlarge their armies as the people are many and hard to kill and since not many were brave enough to venture North of the Wall, they did what they could but when the wildlings at Hardhome were attacked, that’s when they basically doubled their army, in a single attack. They haven’t been taking any children for a while now. Maybe they just took these babies until they had the numbers and now they are ready to achieve their ultimate purpose and kill everyone. Or it could be the other way around and they could agree to co-exist with some humans but I just don’t see the NK making peace with anyone. It’s such a hard picture to paint IMO, the King and Cersei talking alliances over tea and lemon cakes lol. Dude doesn’t even speak.
      Of course there is the aspect of the Children of the Forest and the fact that they were once human themselves. But I don’t think that’s the case anymore.
      I see them as similar to the orc forces in LOTR that came to obliterate mankind.

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    271. Irina Stark,

      But if they have a

      sex scene

      wouldn’t that include some sort of romance? Lol. Or do you think it will end up being one of those written as:

      A heated disagreement ensues but then ceases abruptly as, staring into each other’s eyes, they have an epiphany, and all at once a sudden awareness overrides all sense of propriety and the two meet in a passionate embrace

        Quote  Reply

    272. ygritte,

      That’s exactly what I think. There isn’t time for love to take proper shape, we won’t see any sappy cliche stuff or “twihard romance” as some say, but there is enough time for it to bloom, that is why in the midst of all that spoilers galore about

      wights and dragons and battles and deaths .. poof ! The boat sex scene

      pops up out of nowhere. At least that’s what I felt when I read it. I was like “What ? Where ? Why ? What the … ? Omg …… YES.”
      Their fates will be bound unconditionally and irrevocably the moment she will set her eyes on that wight, there’s no going back.
      Their

      boat moment

      will bloom out of mutual respect and consideration, it will be passionate and intense but totally unexpected, that’s how you get fans to rally behind any lovestory, by lighting a spark under their bums and letting them do the rest.
      Trust me, Benioff knows his way around a lovestory (Troy) and he will sell that sh*t to us like warm bread in a Michelin star bakery.

        Quote  Reply

    273. Geralt of Rivia,

      Bran’s visions were also tied to ToJ/Jon’s parentage/Rober’t Rebellion. You had the scene with the death of the Mad King (ties to RR and Cersei’s future bonfire), and young Ned asking about his sister. They’re not as obvious as the WW, but they’re still there.

        Quote  Reply

    274. Irina Stark,

      Don’t get me wrong: I am not saying that the NK could be making peace with anyone. I am pretty sure that he would be happy to exterminate at least 99% of the human population in the Planetos and leave some 1% as slaves (and slavery would be worse than death). But as for humans, there are always those who want to collaborate and not necessarily only for their personal gain. IMO, it’s more due to desire to twist and reverse the traditional morals. Just look at this fandom: there are quite many of those who claim that the WW are good, that they are only reacting to some sort of injustice humans have done to them, they should be reasoned with, etc. And that’s a very popular trend in real world and real politics: aggressors are seen and portrayed as victims and someone is always claiming that they can see a soul in the cold blue eyes of a certain dude. And that is a very worrisome trend.

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    275. Newbietothegame,

      Good – be gone! He is whiner and a “victim”. We were discussing this last week and my responses were leaning towards the leaks and they just couldn’t believe it. They don’t like the storyline so now Watchers of the Wall is awful in their eyes. You don’t want posters like them anyway.

        Quote  Reply

    276. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      I think that is a bit much traveling. I am pretty sure he will be

      in Winterfell ep. 1 and 2 while leaving Winterfell as well, Dragonstone ep. 3, Kings Landing (maybe) ep 4 or 5, Eastwatch (north of wall) ep 6 , back to Kings Landing ep 7 – with him traveling back to the wall at the end.done.

      I think you put way to many locations in there. He won’t be bouncing around that much, but I do believe he will be going by boat a lot which greatly shortens travel time.

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    277. Jon Snowed,

      Not hard at all lol. Get to a location where a Wight will attack them, set-up a trap, capture the wight and fight off the rest while running away. Will Smith showed us how to do it in I Am Legend!

        Quote  Reply

    278. dragonmcmx,

      A dead person passed the wall in the first season. I am pretty certain it is one of the head wights that can’t pass. Such as the Nights King or any other that will only die via dragonglass. I forget if those are Others or Wights. Either way there are two types. Some that burn and can be hacked to pieces with a stick if need be, where others do not burn and can only be killed via dragonglass.

      Also, why will it be laughably bad. And how can we say this isn’t part of the storyline in the books, you have know idea?

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    279. dragonmcmx,

      Why though? You can’t just comment saying it is going to be bad and terrible based on the short information that we have. Without providing any support you just sound like a whiner whose own theories didn’t come true so you don’t like the storyline it went in because it wasn’t what you thought.

        Quote  Reply

    280. Pigeon,

      I truly don’t understand why it is ridiculous?

      Clearly the Lannisters put a blow into Dany’s army. dany asks Westeros for help, Jon responds, tells her about the Wight Walker and she agrees that is more important than the throne. Jon convinces her they need all of Westeros. Cersei says prove it to me. They go get proof and come back (kind of in the books already). Obviously a lot of political details will be in between

      I think the people who don’t like this storyline truly believe Cersei has a weak force and find it unbelievable that Dany won’t beat Cersei right away and instead asking her for help. The Lannisters have been in control of KL since Day 1 of the show, do you really think in a show that is about fighting for the throne, the winner of the game of thrones would be resolved prior to the last season? Cersei will be on the throne and alive after this season. She is the ultimate big bad.

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    281. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      See maybe that is what you don’t get. People don’t think the Protagonist had to prove it to Cersei going back to last year. All the people stating they have to prove it to the Lannisters is because obviously something happened to Dany’s army that won’t allow Dany to beat Cersei right away (all on the assumption that Tyrion will do what he can to not allow Dany to burn Kings Landing to take control of it, to many innocence will fall). So please don’t think we are just stupid robots who read a leak and think oh that is the only option duh. We read the leak, understand why they need the Lannisters at this point in the story.

      Whoever thought a show called Game of Thrones would have the question Who will win the game answered with a whole other season to show isn’t thinking right lol. I always thought The battle vs the wights would stop the “game” for the time being and then the game will pick back up for the final season.

      Doing it the way you stated is all wrapped in a bow, too nice. Nah, the best way to show it always was to show the aftermath of the battle with the wights and the power struggle.

        Quote  Reply

    282. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      Okay, first lets not overexagerate some things. Jon isn’t going all over the continent. If I have read everything correctly he is going from Winterfell to Dragonstone to Kings Landing to the North back to Kings landing at the most. He could end up staying in Dragonstone while Cersei says prove it to me. Which means it would only be Winterfell to Dragonstone to North to Kings Landing. The leaks even provided the information stating he has a ship going north and coming south which has been said so many times in the show it drastically speeds up travel. Maybe not to get to Dragonstone beside the boat he takes form the mainland But dude he isn’t going all over the place.

      Second, who really knows what Cersei is with the Protagonists? Well in the North only Sansa and Littlefinger. Well from what we gather in the leaks

      she isn’t around to provide that information to Jon when it is decided they need the Lannisters.

      I am guessing Jon doesn’t go to Dragonstone with the plan already that they need the Lannisters it gets formed when he is there. I am assuming that plan is hatched when he gets there and he gets more information. Another thing information doesn’t travel that fast in Westeros (even though I know Littlefinger will state word will travel fast about the battle of the bastards). It still doesn’t travel fast, the truth gets changed. Epsecially by someone who controls propaganda the way Cersei does. Basically out of all the people on the good side that know Cersei are Varys, Littlefinger, Sansa, and Tyrion. Sansa and Littlefinger are no where near these protagonists when this happens so any incite they can provide is not there. Wouldn’t you think something happens to Dany army that makes Tyrion and Varys agree they need the Lannisters? Yes I agree Tyrion wouldn’t want to ally with Cersei. Instead of arguing it why don’t we have a better conversation about how that comes to be. Now I will agree it will be bad if Tyrion just says yes we need her ally without any reasonable excuse to do it. But clearly the leaks and information we have been given shows that it was something they clearly thought they needed to do. Let’s speculate why instead of how terrible of a writing idea that is. You are on the assumption that every person has the internet and has the most up to date information about Cersei Lannister’s history.

      Third, Cersei has plenty of Allies. I have stated it a lot. The Lannister army is still very strong, second biggest in Westeros still. New soldiers are trained all the time. So they have the support of the Westerlands. She is the queen and will have support from the Crownlands. She will have the bulk of the Ironborn through Euron and a fleet. Her kids were Baratheons and there will still be support in the Stormlands. Lannisters will get support from the Reach, and I am speculating but most likely from the Tarly’s who carry the second largest army in the Reach and he is known as the best general in Westeros. To say Cersei has no support is foolish. No money? I believe the second you take out a family the first order of business is to sack their home. Well Cersei just basically wiped out the faith and Tyrell’s Who were the richest family in Westeros (since the Lannisters are out of gold). There is always support and money for claimants to the throne because if that side wins whoever showed support can advance their family greatly. That is how you do it in current westeros govt.

      Lastly, Dragons are not going to be used to defeat Cersei if she is in Kings Landing. You don’t burn the city. So dragons or no dragons it will not matter when it comes to Dany attacking Kings Landing.

      Now in season 8 when Dany and Co. realize Cersei is a lying wench then yes she will burn the city. But Dany/Tyrion won’t use the dragons on Kings Landing prior to the battle with the Wights.

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    283. Wow, so many people boycotting this show? Is it too much to ask the Admin to track those who say they will never watch again and highlight their text in BIG YELLOW BOLD LETTERS when we see them replying when the season starts? Love commenters who judge a show before they’ve even seen an episode.

      Anyways, history has shown that when there is a greater enemy, former enemies often made for allies. Persian invasion of Greece anyone? SMH.

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    284. Lulus Mum:
      Black Raven,
      Now you’ve ruined my image of you. I thought you were bird and some pesky human had come and perched underneath you while you were caw-cawing

      Ah .. Lulus Mum sorry to spoil the illusion 🙂

      Unfortunately its not the raven who replying to these posts, but the silly human he latched onto! Perhaps I should change my name to ‘Raven Maester’ 😉

      Pigeon: I’ve cared for dozens of crows and ravens over the years, and let me tell you, us silly humans are usually very much ‘under their thumb/claws’!!! Now I’m picturing the raven typing out the posts here, telling his human to ‘knock it off and stop shitting on everything’ in the background.

      Nice one 😀
      Yes, ravens are very intelligent birds. Certainly when it comes to getting attention and fed by the tourists. The one perched on my shoulder is called ‘Carmelo’ and has a reputation for scrounging food. I was sitting on a wall having a snack and the next thing I know he’s jumped onto me 😮
      There’s also another called ‘Nevermore’ and his specialty is landing on cars and trashing the windscreen wipers!
      They’ve been around for years. Just incredible how they survive the winters living up on the mountain on this island at some 8000ft.

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    285. Lol people are REALLY flipping out about these spoilers.

      1. We don’t know if this is a condensed version of the outline that George has.
      2. We HAVE NOT SEEN THE SEASON.

      I’ll reserve my judgement of the season until then.

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    286. Irina Stark,

      I think it would have to be something like that. Obviously having never seen them interact I can’t be sure but just knowing their personalities and the circumstances I can’t picture them falling for each other in a traditional romantic kind of way especially after a short time together and knowing how Dany comes off.

      But she could fall hard for him by the end of season and as a result that has changed her outlook and demeanor. [spoiler]Maybe she makes herself vulnerable (shades of ygritte) by letting down her guard (queenly persona) declaring her feelings, and/or seducing him on that boat and it’s after the sex is when Jon offers to swear fealty privately.

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    287. BlueRoseofWinterfell,

      I think its in Jon’s nature to an extent. He sees the big picture in a way others do not. You can see this by him brining the Wildlings south. I imagine Jon will get a lot of push back from everyone but stand above it and say if they are to stand a chance that they need to unite the Kingdom. Wasn’t there a “great unifier” in the lore against the whites?

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