Episode 334 – Blood of My Blood Part Two
This week, we question everything. Things are heating up, and Winter is coming.
Discussion Topics
Three-Eyed visions
Will Bran continue?
Ice and Fire
The Mad Queen?
The Holy Union
Margaery’s Plan
Cersei’s Plan
Listener Owns
Hodor
Jonsa
My theory re Bran, he needs to be ‘hooked up’ to a Weirwood tree. Winterfell? Seems as though that is psychic network of sorts. There is magic there.
Margaery’s Plan – Cersei’s Plan and the High Sparrow’s plan are all keeping me guessing and it could explode at any time…. hopefully soon
Haven’t listened yet. Saving it for tomorrow while I wait for my car to be serviced. My owns goes to little Sam what a charmer he is.
Hodor # 5 ………
Been looking forward to this.
Look my main issue with the “mad queen” thing is this idea that “ruthless conquering female” = mad.
Did anyone call Tywin mad? No. Neither Aegon the Conquerer was considered mad. So why Dany, even if she becomes somewhat less morally upright? It is a stereotype with some serious baggage that female antagonists are called “mad” or “crazy” while male ones are just called evil, or Machiavellian.
Dany is and has always been someone who is into saving people. That core won’t go away IMO. What might change is her willingness to do some more nasty things to achieve that. Ruthless. Sure. Uncompromising, maybe. Antagonistic? To some definitely. Mad? Hardly.
Actually people say that because she is rather fond of burning people alive just like the “mad king” used to. *sigh* it has nothing to do with whats between her legs *sigh* just ask Theon lol
Queenofthrones,
….female antagonists are called “mad” or “crazy” while male ones are just called evil, or Machiavellian.
The man Aerys is called the “mad” king because he wanted to burn people. Why can’t that term apply to Dany if she basically does the same thing? Having three huge fire breathing dragons and setting out to conquer 7 kingdoms you don’t think she will use them? Of course she would use them to burn those she perceives as her enemy. But she could either go the route of using discretion or one of full-on destruction. Also in fiction I’ve heard plenty of female characters called evil, like witches and step mothers. I think everyone is using the term “mad” because it is the word used in relation to her family tree, and because she isn’t “evil” per say, just that she might go through a bout of “madness” which means the same thing as crazy.
Queenofthrones,
Have to agree. I don’t recall seeing Stannis called “mad” for burning people. And Mad Aerys didn’t burn people while vastly outnumbered and threaten with rape.
ygritte,
Well, the reason Aerys is called the Mad King was because he was cruel and paranoid, because he tortured and killed people, mostly by burning them, not because he /wanted/ to burn people. He burned lots of people he considered enemies before the Starks and before he wanted to burn all of King’s Landing.
This is going to sound nit picky and I’m sorry, but a lot of people seem to be thinking that he’s called the Mad King because he wanted to burn KL – this isn’t the reason, of course, because Jaime was the only person alive until recently who knew about this. All his cruel and terrible deeds before that night made him the Mad King, and they went on for many years and got worse with time. Which is also why I don’t see how Bran is supposed to have caused it (a theory that has been brought up a few times).
‘Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely’!
Dany has three dragons and a drive to ‘take what’s mine’.
How long is this learning curve of hers going to last? If she were going to fix all the problems she’d look for political and humanitarian solutions and not resort to flames every time she hits a brick wall.
Tywin was arrogant and ruthless but very true to his form of character. Dany is double minded so unstable. Which way she will go depends on how backed against the wall she is.
Did anyone else have issue with Jaime all of a sudden going to the Riverlands and not sticking around for Cersei’s trial? It just seemed like, we really need to get Jaime to the Riverlands so he can meet-up with Brienne, so let’s make it happen! Yes, I know King Tommen is sending him, but hard for me not to think that Tommen would’ve been merciful and let Jaime stay on as Lord Commander of the King’s Guard or at least let him stick around for the trial.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
I think Cersei has something in mind so she has no problem with Jaime leaving. She’s had to be on her best behavior while Jaimes in town, which is somewhat limiting in her repertoire.
As for Tommen I completely buy that he’d do whatever the HS says at this point. HS wants Jaime gone, that’s where that order came from.
ygritte,
Again, no one ever called Aegon the Conquerer mad. Dany has always had more in common with him than with Aerys.
Also Mad King Stannis is a term I have literally never heard.
Queenofthrones,
It goes way back than that, don’t forget that most people are simply not comfortable with having a woman in charge ,especially when she faces difficult situations and tries to solve them the same way a man would do. Let’s face it she is stern and will resort to violence when necessary , people seem to forget or alter the settings under which each of her decisions where made. Sure we might disagree with them but that doesn’t make her mad for doing so, that makes her flawed and ok for she is human. Andronicus Comnenus wasn’t declared insane and lemme tell you he was more cunning and ruthless than Dany could ever be, heck he even used a noble as a battering ram in front of his relatives ,who were watching from inside the walls of the castle he was besieging. And he like Dany tried to reform Byzantine legislature in order to make it more just for the lower and middle classes. People seem hellbend to prove she’s crazy because she burned a potential Harpy last season, forgetting that it was an exhibition of power ,reminding them who’s in charge. Sure she could have handled it better but we’re talking about a person with no education and whose advisors (at that given moment) were inadequate.
Just think that it wasn’t that long ago when women were declared hysteric for behaving in ways that were considered inappropriate for their gender, or when queens who tried to gain power and rule were dismissed as She Wolves , crazy women with vampyric lust.
I believe Daeny will get to Westeros and she wont be able to bring on the raping and pillaging, because the war between the living and the dead will be rampant. She will immediately have to put her plans aside to fight the good fight. Then, once that war is over, she will be the hero everybody wants her to be, and rebuild her Kingdom. Along with the North and the Starks.
I don’t believe anyone thinks Daenerys is mad because she’s female. From my viewpoint, it seems more to do with the fact she’s Targaryen (a house known for madness) with a father who was mad. They called him the Mad King, and he was male. This has nothing to do with her being female. Add in the fact she’s burning people and yelling about destroying Westeros, and it’s hard not to wonder if she’s heading in that direction. She burned a room full of people and enjoyed it if that smile of hers was any indication.
All that said, I don’t think she’ll become the Mad Queen, though I do think it would make the story more interesting. Having her swoop in on her dragons and team up with the “good guys” to defeat the “evil” enemy seems, to me, like a fairly standard and typical (and disappointing) end to a fantasy series that is famous for breaking tropes and defying expectations.
First post ever- and if someone else has thrown this out there, my apologies.
The High Sparrow will talk Tommen into representing the faith in Cersai’s trial by combat. Tommen will agree convinced the Gods will be on his side. Cersai will be forced to choose between saving herself or her last surviving child. She will of course choose Cersai. The death of Tommen will finally snap what is left of her mind and she will order Qyburn to burn the city to the ground with wildfire in retribution.
Safe on Casterly Rock she will confess to a shocked Jamie- “So I burned them. I burned them all” whereupon Jamie will strangle his twin in fulfillment of prophecy.
Myrmidon,
I…. I think I love your brain.
ygritte,
In my perspective, Daenerys doesn’t act the same way her father did. There were a lot of other Targaryens who had dragons too and who were not insane. The problem is not the means: fire. The problem was that Aerys was paranoid and crazy and tortured and killed people for no apparent reason. He could have done it fire, swords, torture devices, whatever… the act in itself is what defines his madness. And there is not evidence of Daenerys going mad, imo. Yes, she burned the Khals but for obvious reasons. If she had done it a sword would people see her as insane too?
Giocrypt,
She is not a warrior, she doesn’t know how to use a sword. So she uses the skill she has: fire immunity. Why is that crazier than killing people with a sword?
And she used it with the Khals, she used it with a Slaver and she burned Mirri Maz Duur. I’m not remembering any other situation but all of these were more or less justified. It’s not like she was being paranoid like her father and burning people for no apparent reason. Just my opinion.
Though I disagree with many of Dany’s choices, I don’t see her as mad. Rash, perhaps. Leading with her bleeding heart, for sure. But not mad. Tywin isn’t the least mad, either. Quite the opposite, in fact. He is evil and selfish, which are very different things from madness.
Mad King Aerys was a man and he was truly, wholeheartedly mad. Viserys was a man and he could also be considered mad, truly mad: don’t wake the dragon. So Dany has two immediate family members who are mad. Legit madness. Because of pure genetics, it seems natural to be more concerned about Dany’s propensity for madness than those without mad parents and siblings. And that’s why I think others bring it up so much. Not because of sexist tendencies, although that may play a small role, but because of her familial associations with lunatics.
I can also see why one might say that the opposite of being mad is being rational, which is why I said Tywin was perhaps the epitome of the opposite of mad. Dany is more heart than head, and so rationality isn’t her strongest suit, IMO. That may be another reason that people would consider her mad. I don’t think that’s enough to be mad, though.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Yes, I kinda of agree with you. Also, I was expecting to see some kind of rupture in Jamie and Cercei’s relationship. But it seems they aren’t going that way.
Danny Johns,
While I don’t see it happening in precisely that way, I definitely wouldn’t be surprised to see Cersei setting fire to King’s Landing sooner or later. If Jaime experiences somewhat of a déjà vu or not… who knows. It would certainly be poetic and tragic.
Lyanna_Targaryen,
Thank you for the kind words, sometimes I feel like my dyslectic ramblings are difficult to understand by anyone else other than me.
Queenofthrones,
Agreed – think Cersei has something up her sleeve (that won’t end well, of course).
Danny Johns,
Welcome! No not seen this one, interesting idea..
Myrmidon,
No, I think you make perfect sense. There is something to be said for genetic tendencies, but others have risen above them. Besides, the moniker ‘mad’ may be in the eye of the beholder so to speak. Its the winners of the war that make the history. So if she wins, she’s not mad. If someone else does,then all bets are off.
Myrmidon,
I don’t see Dany as mad or eventually becoming mad. But I also don’t see the people as labeling her that way as sexist. For one, she’s the product of inbreeding. For two, it runs in her specific bloodline, I believe it didn’t onset until later in life for her dad. For three, she had a horrible upbringing with no loving figure in her life, just an abusive brother. So I don’t see the comparison to Tywin as valid. While I don’t see her as being mad (at least not yet), I don’t think the people who do think that are necessarily being sexist.
The other thing about Tywin is everything he did was calculating and had a purpose. He never was cruel out of rage like Dany was when she crucified the masters and fed a master to a dragon. The only real purpose those things had were satisfying her anger. He was only really cruel to Tyrion, but I don’t think that compares to murdering hundreds due to need for vengeance.
Hey I agree I dont think she is mad either but I was responding to the person that thinks that people believe she is mad because she is a woman, which is ridiculous.
The rupture will come when one of them dies
ash,
Even if she has some genetic tendencies there something to be said about the role epigenetics play in all of this . That is to say that enviromental factors contribute quite a bit to the expression or development of one’s “madness”. An obvious example could be her father and how his own paranoia was exacerbated
. I totally agree with you , there are numerous examples of how monarchs who performed horrid acts were often remembered as great heroes and in some cases they were even designated as saints (Constantine the Great is an obvious example) .
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Well I am just pointing out the double standards that people use when it comes to describing her actions as a monarch and how that has occured several times in recent and not so recent history.Now it can sometimes be intentional and that’s why you have to pay attention to context . When it comes to inbreeding, and genetic predesposition, it all comes down to dominant and recessive genetic traits and even then epigenetic factors come into play ,so irl is not that simple, then again GoT is not real life.If I am not mistaken I’ve read in ASOIAF wiki that sir Barristan comparse her to Rhaegar and AEgon the Conqueror , two Targs who were definitely not mad. Now I’ve never compared her to Tywin so I have no idea what you’re talking about :).
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Tywin wasn’t cruel out of vengeance?
His actions during the Tarbeck-Reyne rebellion were mostly motivated by vengeance and a desire to prove himself/demand respect for House Lannister. He was a terribly cruel man.
He had the Tarbeck men beheaded after defeating them on the battlefield and had their heads impaled on spears as they rode towards Tarbeck Hall. Even though Tarbeck Hall’s resistance was broken very quickly, Tywin still had the castle be put to the torch.
And of course he made house Reyne go extinct by diverting a river so everyone who had sought refuge in the Castamere mines – hundreds of people, not only soldiers but also women and children – slowly drowned.
None of these actions was necessary to assure victory.
I don’t think Dany is mad, but I think once she makes it to Westeros her opponents will certain CALL her mad, pointing to the Mad King being her father – and if she burns people in Westeros, it’s going to make for very bad PR.
Myrmidon,
Epigenetics is not the word you want there; just stick to “environmental factors.” Epigenetics is when the environment causes changes to your actual DNA, not your psyche. (Sorry – science nerd, cannot possibly let something like that go by.) But I agree that in the case of the Targaryens, nurture definitely comes into play as well as nature. There’s no indication that Dany’s mother was insane, after all, and she was Aerys’s sister.
I was talking about epigenetic regulation of gene expression, which is relevant to a degree I think 🙂 .
Mazzie,
Yes! This!
Tywin was absolutely cruel for the sake of it. Tyrion is the worst example, but what he ordered the mountain to do with Elia and her kids, and the Reynes, and what he had the mountain do in the riverlands… It goes on and on.
I think people take his cold affect as proof he’s acting without emotion, but he’s not. He’s acting out of a carefully contained sense of wounded pride, a lot of the time.
And I think that danys violent actions have all had a purpose and weren’t as over the top as Tywins.
Meanwhile, unlike Tywin Dany is clearly capable of deep compassion, love, and mercy. So she’s has some good to balance the bad.
Myrmidon,
*equips biologist hat*
I would say that gene expression, whether directly or epigenetically regulated, is a mechanism that facilitate the biological expression of environmental factors/influences. 🙂
In any case it still comes down to how genes and environment (and their interaction) change the phenotype, regardless of exactly what molecules are involved.
Mazzie,
All of his actions had an overarching purpose though: to gain respect back for House Lannister. He goes overboard to send a message – you fuck with House Lannister, this is what happens.
It’s hard to argue that Dany’s crucifying of the masters had any purpose aside from blind revenge.
I don’t think Dany is mad however, she does walk a fine line. I believe Tyrion/Varys and kinvara will probably help her learn how to “tame the dragon” so to speak. Or at least be a voice of reason for/of the bigger picture.
I’ve thought a lot about her voyage to Westeros. It may be an intensional misdirection from d&d to have Eurron mention the 1000 ships he will build and Dany’s need for a 1000 ships she needs to bring everyone over.
Thru the trailers, we’ve seen that there is going to be some kind of a fight with the sons of harpy. I think we are fairly certain that Theon and Yara are in Volantis now as well. What if Theon and Yara sail in to slavers bay in search of Dany and set the anchors down and hed to the great pyramid.
During this time, conflict is brewing by the sons who are putting up a stand against Dany’s new army. An all out battle occurs and blood is shed throughout the streets. It’s chaos. In all the madness, Dany along with Tyrion, Varys, Kinvara and very few others are able to escape. While fleeing to the port, they see Theon and co. who recognize the danager, and help Dany Escape to the small fleet of IB ships.
Where is Drogon? Well he is fighting the the harpy and all the others who have turned to violence. Darrio is a spy planted by the masters to infiltrate deep into Dany’s trust. He has orchestrated all of this. Drogon eventually roasts him up medium well and has him for diner. Best served with a nice Ciante.
As the ships fill with as many Dothraki, unsullied and second sons as possible, many are left behind as the battle ensues, the last order Dany gives is for Grey Worm and Missandie to stay behind and establish a new order. They have learned through Dany and Tyrion what will work the best going forward. They are of the people for the people and who better to lead then them? Drogon is ordered to stay behind as well to help in the battle. Once the threat is gone, he will rejoin Dany in Westeros. Also, before fleeing the pyramid (on their way to the port) Tyrion opens the crypt for the other two dragons to escape. As they sail out of slavers bay, Dany looks back and sees all three dragons fighting along with what’s left of her forces. A close up of Dany shows her to be saddened at the conclusion of her time in Essos and what she’s leaving behind, but this turns to a look which could be taken as almost pleasure, as she sees her children and what they are capable of.
Probably not, but I think something really tragic has to come out of Dany’s time in the east. I really don’t think her coming over with the Dothraki horde et al would be seen as anything other than a huge threat for anyone in Westeros. It may not go over so well. But the lessons learned in the east, will help her in her desire to regain the IT. We won’t get the mad queen though sorry…and when all the ashes are done falling, she along with perhaps two others? will be there to rule what’s left of the 7 kingdoms.
How does that sound?
Myrmidon,
Sorry I confused you with someone else. I don’t understand your argument about genetics, no one truly knows the effects of inbreeding of whether it’s something that can onset later in life (like Schizophrenia) or from the beginning of life (like Joffrey). It definitely screws things up and that was my point.
First time poster. Maybe someone has talked about this already and I agree with Kings Landing burning happening in the future.
When Dany is in the House of the Undying and goes through her visions we see her walking through a snow filled burnt out throne room. At the time I thought it was a prophecy of her destroying Kings Landing. Now I think Cersei burns them all and Dany finds Kings Landing destroyed already and in the midst of winter.
Self-deleted
A girl has a name and it’s Stark,
That’s how I saw it too although I thought it was just me.
Queenofthrones
Ah… I really dislike it when anything said about a female character become some kind of weird discussion about patriarchy. It’s a bit ridiculous. Tywin wasn’t mad, just evil and calculated. A character usually is called “mad” when he acts insane – just look at the mad king, willing to burn everyone around him. As for Daenerys, I’ve no idea if she is mad or not. Time will tell if she is mentally unstable or not. Cersei, if you ask me, has a few problems.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
The crucifixion sent the exact message it needed to – in a language the slavers would understand – that the life of a slave is equal to that of a master.
Exactly what specific message did Tywin drowning to death hundreds of women and children send? Raping/murdering Elia? Raping Tyrion and Tysha?
The only “message” is basically Tywin saying “don’t fuck with me”. How is that “calculated” or anything but vengeance, really? And disproportionate vengeance rather than measured vengeance?
Vlad the Impaler,
The stereotypes and historical baggage exist whether you (dis)like it or not. It doesn’t mean criticizing Dany is wrong – or thinking she’s evil. Just havnt seen any reason that shouldn’t equally be applied to a half dozen male characters, which is suspect to me that people at (mostly unconsciously) following stereotype.
I actually also do have a problem with people calling Cersei “mad” at this point but the podcast was primarily about Dany so that’s who I commented about. Cersei really isn’t mad. She’s very selfish, fairly stupid, and ruthless. Not crazy.
Mazzie,
I had heard he was a pretty good king though until he went crazy. For how long was he mean and cruel? In the books where were Littlefinger and Varys during the later part of his reign?
I am of the same mind. There is a lot to be said for the ways in which warmongering men and warmongering women are portrayed differently in fiction and history, but I’m not seeing this case as a particularly compelling example.
Plenty of other characters have gone off the deep end and been branded as crazy, insane, etc. Just last year, the magazine Salon ran a story headlined ‘There’s no defending Stannis Baratheon now’ in which he was branded ‘evil’. When Daenerys does something questionable she is called Mad because of her father; I’m not seeing many people naming her the The Evil Queen, the Dark Queen, or any other lazy fiction tropes.
Lol,
Well the Mad King merely hear whispers yet Dany, well she sees visions of a lacquer masked woman now doesen’t she…
In all seriousness though, it is probably delving into what book Ser Barristan discussed, eg the idea the gods flip a coin when a Targaryen is born, so you as a viewer are probably being made to keep guessing as to which side the coin will land insofar as Daenarys goes. Which is quite good
eg the scene where she gets Rhaegal and Viserion to burn the Master but then stops out of now wanting to “overfeed” them
So I expect this pattern to continue
As far as Dany goes, I’ve always figured that despite all the Westeros invasion talk, her arc has always related to the east and Valyria, eg she is Aegon in reverse, but where there is an invasion (taking over Aegons plot?), she is similar to the Night’s King who we can now perceive as someone who perhaps feels himself the victim of an injustice like Dany does
In terms of the bigger picture, ASOIF amongst many things is a matter of exploring power in various forms, eg Nobility, Theocracy, Male and Female and at the end of the day woman can be as competent or incompetent as men, Theocrats as incapable as Nobles etc.
I tend to think of Queen of Thorns as the equivalent of Tywin, but there are signs Dany is being set up as the equivalent of Night’s King, eg imagine you are Braavosi and in particular HoB&W, how do you consider the rise of magic and Dragons etc?
You do raise a good point, which is why I think it’s very unfortunate Arianne wasn’t included, as on the show like in the books if Dorne was done properly it would have been an excellent way to explore a different lineage system compared to the rest of Westeros, the different attitudes to sexuality and what is expected of women as a contrast to the issues that is explored with Cat, Sansa and then Arya and Brienne would have been good also. But I guess not enough seasons
Not to mention he was stable for a while, Tywin was a very capable Hand, but then he got a bit funny with people attributing the stability to Tywin
He may have seemed paranoid but there was some merit as it does seem the Grand Maestar conspiracy has some merit, even if they weren’t responsible for the death of Dragons, they certainly did seem to be setting up matches amongst the Warden and major non-Royal Houses designed to perceivably form some kind of ring of containment
I hope Danny becomes the mad queen.
I wonder about the significance of Bran’s vision of Mad King ,”Burn them all……”. The Targryens being connected to fire magic and dragons might be having visions of future with WW menace and burning all by dragons and wildfire being the ultimate defence against the WWs and the deads. These visions of future could not be handled by the many Targyrens ,turning them into crazies. It also explains the huge stock of wildfire in KL. It looks that the WWs will have to be confronted by an explosion of wildfire ( seen in the vision of Bran) and fire breathing 3 dragons commanded by Danny, Tyrion and John Snow, all having Targyren genes.
Ghosts Lunch,
Interesting thought about Dany being the equivalent of the NK. I definitely think that some will oppose her for the obvious reasons (foreign army, Aerys’ daughter, they want to keep their own power), so she will have some major PR work to do and it won’t be enough to get everyone. Only exception is if Westeros is literally a frozen wasteland full of refugees by the time she gets there – in which case I doubt anyone will care, unless she can stop the NK / WW first!
I doubt, though, that the Braavosi will oppose her (if that even comes up). She has freed a ton of Essos from Slavery and they were founded as an anti-slavery city so would seem to be natural allies. I don’t know about the faceless men and magic – is there some deep opposition there? They use magic too after all.
I agree that Dany and Tywin are not equivalent. I just think anyone calling Dany “mad” for her ruthless acts alone should look no further than Tywin for someone who is far more ruthless and violent (and lacks any counteracting kindness). QoT is great – smart and willing to use violence when needed, but she clearly loves her family and I wouldn’t say the same for Tywin.
ygritte,
”
His reign lasted 21 years and it’s true that the first half was peaceful and he was considered a good and capable king. Rhaella suffered many miscarriages and stillbirths and he became suspicious after a few years and believed she was being unfaithful to him. When another son (Jaehaerys) died a year after his birth (about half-way into his reign) he suspected the wet nurse of having poisoned him, had her beheaded, then suspected his mistress and had her and her family tortured and killed.
From that point on he became more and more paranoid, e.g. burning all the gifts for newborn baby Viserys. His relationship with Tywin who was serving as Hand became strained as Tywin was by many considered to be more effective at decision-making and a more capable ruler, so he didn’t trust him either.
Notably, Aerys was held hostage in Duskendale by Lord Denys Darklyn for half a year after a dispute about fifteen years into his reign. Lord Denys was defeated and in retaliation, Aerys had every member of House Darklyn (except for Dontos who was a child and rescued by Ser Barristan) and the allied House Hollard tortured in the most terrible ways and then burned alive.
So that was basically the turning point – after his imprisonment he suspected almost everyone of treachery, was extremely paranoid, discovered wildfire as a way of punishing people he suspected of treason by burning them alive, started raping his wife etc. That went on for a few years until Jaime killed him at the end of Robert’s Rebellion.
Varys entered the picture during those final six or so “mad” years after Duskendale as Aerys no longer trusted his own family (Rhaegar or Rhaella) or his Hand (Tywin), and he pointed out schemes and traitors to the king, so he certainly wasn’t helping matters.
Littlefinger didn’t become part of the Small Council until Robert’s reign, he was busy with puberty and trying to woo Catelyn during the latter part of Aerys’ reign.
Queenofthrones
This statement is, in itself, a stereotype. A SJW stereotype. I don’t understand why we must always assume that one’s opinions about a character are the product “stereotypes and historical baggage”. Heh, I can still remember the days when one could express an opinion without being labeled a x or an y.
she burned a room full of peoplw who were planning to rape her to death. Let me say that again- RAPE HER TO DEATH. Jon Snow killed a CHILD for revenge and “treason.”
Look I know most fans do not intentionally chose to think Dany is going “mad” because they are sexist. Most people do not believe they are sexist and get defensive when certain anomalies get pointed out. And I also know that most fans are following the “clues” in the narrative. But what the writers do can and has been outrageously sexist. And, where our mind goes with clues can and has been outrageously sexist. This applies to men and women. When sexism (or racism) is institutionalized, like it is, most people do not even realize the ideas and notions they have about the world are tainted by years and years and years of sexist ideology.
Mazzie,
Thanks for sharing that Mazzie 🙂 That backstory is interesting and always been mysterious to me.
oops wrong thread nvm
Izatty,
That wasn’t their intention to begin with though. They were debating what to do with her, and I think they would have let her live with the Dosh Khaleen, she could have escaped later. Burning them alive wasn’t self defence or retaliation for their threats, she went into that tent planning to kill them and put on a show.
I quite like the idea of her going mad from a narrative perspective. The idea that we thought we were seeing the rise of a great Queen actually being the rise of a tyrant is really interesting to me. There is enough there to go either way.
I don’t really compare her to Tywin because Tywin was never supposed to be seen as a ‘good guy’ he can be classed as a villain, saying Dany only does things on his level is not a good thing. He is cold, calculated, unforgiving and merciless, justifying Dany by comparing her to him, only makes her look worse to me. Same with Stannis, nobody was trying to make out he was a hero doing what he had to do when he killed Shireen. Yet Dany is supposed to be a hero, she is held to higher standards than characters we know are bad.
Compare her to Jon, he took no pleasure in hanging the traitors, Dany smiles.
My Dany is mad leanings are purely down to her Targ lineage, as a woman I’m very happy with strong female characters, even if Dany becomes something else, she is still a strong character. As long as it makes sense and is well developed I have no problem with her going full ‘mad Queen’ down the line. I’ll also be happy to see her triumph in the end if she can prove herself a good ruler.