Here’s your weekly Brush-Up video of last week’s Game of Thrones episode entitled “Blood of my Blood”. Join me to celebrate the return of Benjen and Sam putting on his big boy pants.
This video should be safe enough for the Unsullied because the spoilers and speculation is at the very end of the video with plenty of warning beforehand.
Video after the jump.
WARNING: This video is NSFW and definitely not for the kiddos. Enjoy my fellow Thronites!
Meh. It was alright.
Hold the door!
Good spot about Dany’s vision in the HotU wrt the not snow but ash idea. I definitely see Cersei’s big play being as speculated here perhaps as part of the this season’s finale.
I agree with you about CleganeBowl. Not sure how that happens in the show, not only for the time frame you referenced but also because of the images we have yet to see (from the trailer) and the interview with Jonathan Pryce.
But well, I suppose we’ll see.
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
It was snow. Apparently someone (Alan Taylor might’ve been that guy) said in the commmentary of this episode and I thought it symbolize Winter is in full swing. Daeny will arrive to empty, cold place. Not a warm welcome or anything. These visions got to do something with her.
Geralt of Rivia,
Fair enough although vision of the the Red Keep is described as charred remains, so snow or ash it gets burned down somehow and sometime; and not necessarily by Dany and dragonfire.
I agree with an above poster that it is snow in KL from Dany’s vision in a previous episode. That doesn’t change that KL was destroyed in those visions and I think Bran’s vision last week is of that destruction.
Interesting spec Dame Pasty!
I hope Jaime is able to negotiate a peace which involves technically doing his duty, but also allowing the Bfish to escape. Surely there will be some important role for Brienne to play in his decision. I also hope Lancel finally admits he fucked Cersei before Jaime leaves, and that is enough to cause Jaime to dump her (instead of the other way around)
I don’t think it’s necessary for the throne to be covered in ash to foreshadow Cersei burning down KL with wildfire. Its clearly a burnt husk whether it’s snow or ash falling. Order of events: 1. Cersei burns down maegors holdfast – everyone abandons KL. 2. Winter comes (along with snow). 3. Dany arrives and sees her vision comes true.
Let’s hope we get to your spoiler points soon. At the moment, I’m a bit bored with King’s Landing.
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
But it’s very clearly snow and not ash
Am I the only one who actually thinks that Dany scene was necessary? At least now I can buy the Dothraki following her. Since episode 4, they were literally a robot army following her around without question simply so the show could have a few cool shots (this is even more ridiculous when you consider that the Dothraki hate magic). A scene where Dany actually interacts with them was necessary, though I do think it was a little late and awkwardly placed in that episode.
What if…
1) Randyll Tarly is called by Jon Snow to aid in the Battle of the Bastards, during which he’s slain?
2) Against his mother’s wishes, Sam’s brother Dickon — srsly GRRM, Dickon? — claims the lordship, whereupon Sam dramatically enters the room wielding Heartsbane and announces, “I’m here to claim my birthright and chew dragon peppers, and I’m all outta dragon peppers!”
Would that mean Sam would be breaking his vows to the Knight’s Watch (not that he already hasn’t by being with Gilly and the kid)?
And speaking of Heartsbane, were the Tarlys giants in the past? That thing looks large enough to be melted down and made into at least two average-sized swords.
No, you are not alone. I am perfectly content with that scene and we needed something like it.
After my third viewing of this episode, I am more and more convinced that Marge didn’t fake the HS, but rather is working with him as part of a deal to save herself, Loras, and to help bring down Cersei (whom I think is the HS’s main target). The deal was to unite the faith and the King, giving him the opportunity to influence how her trial is executed. He will convince Tommen that trial by combat is too violent and goes against the true nature of atonement. So Tommen will say only a trial by the 7 thinking they’ll go easy on his mother, since she already did the walk. And THAT is when Cersei turns loose Frankenmountain and Qyburn, wildfire, and all hell breaks loose.
I say this because Marge and the HS exchange a knowing look behind Tommen’s back on the steps that to me, was unmistakable. We shall all find out soon enough!
Catspaw Assassin,
“Would that mean Sam would be breaking his vows to the Knight’s Watch (not that he already hasn’t by being with Gilly and the kid)?”
Taking over the Tarly holdings would break the vow to ‘hold no lands’, yes. Sam hasn’t broken any vows so far, as he hasn’t taken Gilly as wife, and he wasn’t the father of little Sam.
I agree. I don’t see what everyone is getting their smallclothes in a knot about over Danys scene. It was fine IMO. And hardly misplaced. Funny how the Freys appear out of NOWHERE after 3yrs and nobody even bats an eyelid. SMH.
I agree with Dame Pasty about Cersei. I’m so sure she is going to burn down most of King’s Landing this season. I’ve had this theory for a while, and I’m not the only one, but the foreshadowing is really piling on, isn’t it?
I’ve written a thing with all the foreshadowing neatly compilled, both from the books and the show. The clincher for me was that Bran’s vision included the caches of wildfire under the city exploding, which Jaime of course stopped by killing the Mad King. This means it’s from the future.
Chad Brick,
Ditto to you two.
dragonmcmx,
Agreed
Though I didn’t mind its placement too much
Agreed… KL will burn while the Wall falls… A true contrast of ice and fire.
I think the episode title made it necessary. It wouldn’t have been “blood of my blood” without bloodriders. Yes, it might have been better if differently placed in the episode and in the progression of Dany’s story. She digresses from the burning temple to the intimate Jorah scene and then back to riding dragons and being queen of the moment. It would have been better if the Jorah maintenance scene wasn’t interrupting these two powerhouse scenes.
There are swords, there are bastard swords, and then there are longswords. Heartsbane is a badass Valyrian steel longsword, just like Ice was before Ice was melted down and made into two separate, regular swords: Oathkeeper and Widow’s Wail. Longclaw is a bastard sword, so longer than most, but not as long as the longsword.
Luka Nieto,
Yep. You called that one, Luka.
Grayven Reyne,
Thanks for the info Grayven Reyne.
The theories are always my favorite parts, and I particularly liked all of this week’s theories. I think they are all quite plausible.
Speaking of swords, Meera has one: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ksf73a1j88pyavw/TwoSwords.png?dl=0. I know that some speculated as to why Meera would have this sword, https://watchersonthewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/GOT606_112315_HS__DSC51721.jpg, until it was pointed out that this sword is probably Benjen’s. I think that’s correct. But there are two swords in the bunny scene leaning against different trees, which you can see in the first link I posted. The one next to Meera’s seems to be Meera’s, and the other seems to be Benjen’s.
So, where did Meera get a sword? Would the passing of Dark Sister from Brynden to Meera have happened offscreen? Or is it just a normal sword?
dragonmcmx,
This is why I don’t want to read the books until after the show is done. This kind of bitter sentiment from bookreaders regarding what is canon and what the show should conform to is all the proof I need that the only way to truly ENJOY the show is to remain aloof to the “facts” to which bookreaders choose to bind themselves.
It’s entertainment. Fiction. Fantasy. Facts are not pertinent here.
The sooner you realize that the show is NEVER going to fulfill your grand aspirations for it, the sooner you can begin actually enjoying it.
Sorry.
I can understand the arguments that it was a bit awkward and didn’t really seem to integrate well with the rest of the episode, but I feel such concerns are pretty marginal. The key elements of the scene – Dany getting Drogon back, firing up the Dothraki, and showing a hint of Fire-and-Blood madness – are all necessary before she returns to Mereen.
A flayed man none,
as a book reader( as if there’s something wrong with that) I love and enjoy the show just as much as the books. I don’t understand the great divide between some of the book lovers and the show lovers. With out the books, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
dragonmcmx,
I bought it before. The Dothraki follow strenght above all. Not necessarily physical strenght, but the person, who brings something to the table that enables them to conquer. Birthing dragons is pretty high up there when it comes to that. But yes, the scene was needed to show Danys transformation from a Queen back to a Khalessi. And this time she is a true one, with a big Khalasar ready to go go to war for her.
I wouldn’t necessarily say that the Dothraki hate magic, btw. Yes, Mirri Maz Duur was hated, but she poisoned Khal Drogo and the blood magic Dany tried to use to save him seems to have a stigmata, but that doesn’t have to mean that the Dothraki are against all forms of magic in all situations. They were okey with and even believed in the prophecy of the Dosh Khaleen regarding Danys son. Prophecy that you believe to became true is a form of magic for you.
RosanaZugey,
TBH, I’ve thought for a while this ‘Cleganbowl’ shite (a showdown between The Mountain and The Hound) was a non starter and just some hyped up idea by the fans hoping it would happen. I hope I’m wrong as I too would like to see the Clegane brothers battle it out, but the way things appear to be going, I don’t think this will happen.
Perhaps in tomorrows episode with
thorne garnet,
This.
RosanaZugey,
Cleganebowl was always one of the iffier fan theories, frankly.
dragonmcmx,
It seems like any big scene involving Dany is going to be instantly divisive. It wasn’t my favorite scene of the episode, but it did what it needed to do, and didn’t feel out of place to me.
Black Raven,
Dude, leaked info should have spoiler tags…
Interesting, as always. The speculation seems plausible.
How does Jon Snow call upon a major southern lord to aid him in a battle? If Tarly was to fight, then he would take the Bolton’s side. They are the duly appointed Wardens of the North, whereas the other side are traitors (Straks and supporters) and savages (Wildlings).
Indeed, to refer to “canon” in a work of fiction is oxymoronic. We are not going to find out what “really” happened if Winds of Winter ever comes out: we (probably) are going to get a different version of the same story, just as the first five seasons provide different versions of the same stories told in the books.
Yeah, the ideas are far from mutually exclusive: winter will start soon, so the Red Keep is going to get snow whether it’s intact or burned. We’ve gotten hints that it’s going to be be burned: so, if it is burned soon, then it will get snowed upon afterwards.
I really like the idea of Winter being in full throttle by the time Dany gets there, or at the very least, it’s symbolic of her getting a cold reception, OR that there is nothing left worthwhile for her in Kings Landing, which instigates her trip to the North, towards the wall. The next scene in her vision was her walking out of the throne room, then through the gate at the Wall, toward Drogo.
I always thought it was snow; it seemed to me that when she was about to reach for the Iron Throne, it looked like water was dripping from one of her fingers. It could have been a shot of her nail, someone else take a look. I also thought the fire came from above, and was most likely dragon fire, or at the very least, something flaming landed on the roof. My reasoning was that if a huge cache of wildfire ignited beneath the throne room, the floor would have been damaged or distorted somehow and the throne would have looked scorched, with the deepest scorch markings being at the base of the throne and maybe tapering toward the tips of it. The throne looked undamaged, just … empty
I hope this episode shows more of the common folk struggles …..like how because of constant war and lack of supplies and Lords not paying any attention to their problems have frustrated them …but are helpless ….and poor not just in kingslanding …but across westeros …coz I belive we will be visiting some unseen northern parts where winter must be affecting their lives ..or in riverrun where Freys have been ineffective …etc etc ..I think it will ……..do good later if dany invades …coz she will do good to these common folk in westeros ….and the common folk would instantly accept her …
or in north where Jon could help them and in return he will have their full loyalty and support …which will be important in the upcoming war against the white walkers …….
………,
As always, thanks for the Brush-up, Dame Pastry.
Glad that you brought up the Valonquar and Wildfire connection. I also think that makes sense but there is one thing I have no answer to: Assuming the Wildfire vision will take place, wouldn’t that mean that Jaime fails to stop her? I guess there is foreshadowing that they leave the world together as well – would that then be by Wildfire? Anyway something is still missing, I guess.
Thronetender,
Interesting. Could this mean Dany ultimately becomes the Night’s queen? A song of ice and fire being the uniting of winter king with Dany the “fire” queen in some form/fashion? It sure seems like Daenerys is a character who’s heading towards a supernatural , climactic finish. You know how the sword “lightbringer” became as such by plunging into a loved one’s chest? It brings to mind in a vague way of how the children created the White walkers. I don’t know where I’m going with this…lol
Here are my predictions. Considering everything I will say has not been in the books or the show, nothing here will be a spoiler. I may be right, somewhat right, or totally f’n wrong! So, here we go #1 = I believe The Faith of the Seven will not grant Cersei a trial by combat. She will be judged by The Seven in their own trial system will seven septons. Cersei will go batsh*t crazy and knowing she”ll be found guilty on 2 out of the 3 charges. Thanks to her fill in for Jamie family sex partner, Lancel Lannister. He will be a key witness for her committing adultery, considering he was the one giving it to her & her being an accomplice for murdering King Robert with Strong Wine ( Strong wine is the regular wine but similar to being spiked with a valium or two!) also, it was Lancel who carried it out with Cersei being behind it! So, she’s screwed! Since they don’t have dna testing in Westeros yet, they can’t really prove her children were born from incest. I have a feeling she will go nuts and burn down Baelor’s Sept with Wildfire & considering there possibly is wildfire catches hidden in the city, thanks to The Mad King. There will be a lot of collateral damage! I believe the collateral damage will include Tommen, Margaery & FrankinMountain. The Hound was burnt by the flame, his older asswipe brother FrankinMountain will perish from the flames! Jamie hears word of this, goes back to King’s Landing and kills his sisterwife with his own hands…….I mean his own hand & his other golden hand!! ( I would like to see Jamie jazz up that fake hand down the road & somehow rig it with a Dragonglass short sword of some sort, so he can slay some White Walkers with it!) But before Jamie goes back to King’s Landing, I believe he’ll end up betraying Walder Fray & slaying the Frey’s in their own hall, it’s the Knightly thing to do!!! Obviously with Bran’s vision Jamie has a big part to play in the war to come I believe! I have much more on my mind, but gotta get some damn sleep. later let me know what you think.
That’s really interesting, and concise to boot. Thanks!
There were a few scenes like that in earlier seasons, mostly with Arya and Sandor, but it has become a bit of a forgotten topic – which is a shame, as it might have helped build some understanding of why the Faith is suddenly making such a powerful return to the forefront of political life.
Catspaw Assassin,
nahh, Sam wants to be a Maester, he will leave high lord stuff to his brother..
and history buff moment…Dickon was popular nickname for “Richard” in medival England just as “Ned” was for Edward (Eddard)
Black Raven,
Of course it’s a spoiler. Did you ever think that some people didn’t read Ian McShane’s interview????
Luka Nieto,
Very good, I recall those dialogues and thinking, uh-oh.
RyanKvothe82,
Kvothe! Welcome to WotW. You’re a Rothfuss fan, too, I take it. I cannot wait until the Kingkiller Chronicle is adapted to the screen. I hope we hear more about that soon.
Love these, Dame! Keep ’em coming 🙂
Put me down for thinking that Cersei is gonna burn it all. “Burning down the house” totally stuck in my head.
It was nice to get 1 episode this season that somewhat resembled GAME OF THRONES before it became GAME OF FAN SERVICE CLICHES WHERE OH LOOK SOMETHING SUPER CONVENIENT HAPPENS THE SECOND SOMETHING IS ABOUT TO GO WRONG FOR OUR HEROES AND HEY LOOK THE STARKS ARE ALL FINDING EACH OTHER AND EVERYTHING MIRRORS EVERYTHING ELSE LIKE IT DOES ON EVERY SHOW ON TV AND YOU KNOW THE KNIGHTS OF THE VALE ARE GOING TO PLAY INTO THIS BIG UPCOMING BATTLE BECAUSE NOTHING GETS MENTIONED WITHOUT BEING USED!
Glad they didn’t change the name officially, though. Would be super difficult to write every time.
GeekFurious,
Think your caps lock may be broke, mate.
Abyss,
Yeah but also when the khals and his wives first saw dany they thought she was a witch and said to kill her immediately
So it may not be their favourite thing :p haha
GeekFurious,
The story telling has been looser this season. I can think of a couple instances where the character motivations seemed a bit off just to get the story to where it needs to be:
-Jaime being sent to the Riverlands
-Margaery being hypnotized by the High Sparrow
-Ser Davos asking Mel to bring back Jon
There were some others I can’t remember too. So far I rate season 6 as my least favorite of the 6, but I’ve enjoyed the last two episodes. It could possibly see a bump if a lot of good stuff happens in these final 4 episodes.
Luka Nieto,
Impressive.
Jamie’s show arc and book arc are currently in very different places. That might suddenly change but as of now there is no tension between them. And I am not certain that show!Cersei’s affair with Lancel carries the same weight as book!Cersei affairs and other machinations. The aftermath of her burning the city might change his perception of her as it will bring back memories of Aerys. Perhaps that is something they will deal with next season. I think you mentioned that you thought Cersei would flee to Casterly Rock and Jamie (and others?) would follow her there. I think GWWM said we’d see Casterly Rock so that makes sense if the show paralleled that.
On the show, Jamie told Bronn he wanted to die in the arms of the woman he loved. That would appear to be a bit of foreshadowing. Currently, on the show, the obvious choice is Cersei. Some have suggested Brienne; which might suggest she may be involved in the final scense with Jamie and Cersei. For the show I’d think they’d delay this as much as possible as NCW and Lena great actors and main cast members. End of season 7 (assuming that there is a seven episode Season 7 and a truncated Season 8)? Agree with Brienne’s involvement? I wondering if she survives.
New clip/gif from tonight´s episode:
https://www.facebook.com/SkyAtlantic/posts/1225961164121407
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Season 6 is my favourite right now! And it can only get better from here I believe
So exciting
It’s episode day! Yay!
Dee,
I saw it more as jealousy and perhaps a bit of fear, that the Khal might take another wife.
That’s why she was so happy when he decided to send her to Vaes Dothrak to become a Dosh Khaleen.
I think Moro even says then, that his wifes are jealous.
Dee,
Mine too!
As of know, it’s preaty tied with S4. The last 4 episodes then were amazing, so I’ll wait and see how these next episodes will be, to give a final verdict.
But if they keep going the same way I think it will overtake S4 easly.
Mihnea,
Yeah I guess so
Darkrobin,
Sky Atlantic have added a gif to their Facebook page showing Ayra…
It’s not really a spoiler any more than a still photo but it’s certainly new info so only click if you want to know
http://i.giphy.com/l0K4nidID2p0TUV8Y.gif
Martin has said he wrote Eddard’s arch “because everybody thinks he’s the hero” and that getting Robb killed “became the next thing I had to do.” But they’re not the norm. The other main characters have been mostly fine, even after getting themselves into far more complex schemes than Eddard did.
That’s been going on all the time; it was explicitly emphasised way back in the first season when that concept became somewhat of a character-defining line for Littlefinger.
Halfman,
Halfman,
Rhaenys Stark,
ghost of winterfell,
Yes that’s exactly what I thought.
Sadly, a lot of people feel this way… the most predictable story telling is clearly what people like. The antithesis to what the books are. I’m not saying it is a bad season, but it’s the least faithful to the story telling style of the books. There is little weight to major events except the Hodor thing… which obviously came from GRRM.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Hey. I seem to recall from an earlier post that you are not a book reader. You may want to state that otherwise you’ll get flamed for being a book reader if you offer critism of the show as one of the earlier posts in this thread did. :-). I understand your comments and I’ve appreciated them in the past, and I’ll admit that there are some items I’ve questioned as well.
Let me just state: I AM A BOOK READER, BUT I LOVE SEASON SIX. Caps intended so maybe people will understand that lumping all book readers into one catagory is an easy solution for not wanting to deal with people criticizing something you like. Hey people have different opinions. Making someone who disagrees with you automatically bad is too prevelant today. It’s easier to impune others motiviations than to realize that different people may look at the same scene and have different opinions of it and both are equally valid to that person.
Back to your email.
On Jamie’s motivations. He’s show arc and book arc are in completely different places.
He doesn’t know of some of her crazier plots. So at this point, it makes sense to me that there would be differences.
Margaery and the HS – either she is playing him or both of them are playing a longer game against the Lannisters. I lean toward the former but others lean toward the latter. Or maybe Stockholm syndrome has set in. Motiviations were left unclear and likely more will be revealed soon.
As to going to the Riverlands, yes, they needed to find a reason to send him there, and yes it appears that he will be repeating some of his AFFC storyline as well as whatever there is in TWOW so they had Tommen remove him from the KG and banish him from the city. Part of the reason for the suddeness is the show’s decision to postpone the Riverlands until this season so it is happening later in the KL timeline than it happened in the books.
Ser Davos and Mel – to me this is a result of rapping up the Stannis arc in Season 5 so taht they could add the Ironborn and Riverlands arcs in Season 6. They needed Shireen and Selyse to die as well as Stannis. So they were sent from the Wall to be with Stannis. Therefore, Mel had to be sent as well. But she then had to make her last horse standing ride back to WF, which appears to be significantly closer to the wall on the show than in the books. Otherwise that would have been a 3 – 4 week ride.
As soon as they combined the Edric Storm and Gendry storylines for the show, and Mel met Thoros and Beric it was obvious what would happen. This never happened in the books and I still maintain that a life will be lost to resurrect Jon in the books. Regardless, as they sent Rickon to Last Hearth and not Skagos, and they wanted to avoid a solo Davos storyline with new characters, they left him at the wall. In the books, Mel at the wall has a lot of time with Jon Snow, she sees him constantly in her flames and it would not be surprising that she would want to bring him back on her own. They’ve de-emphasized Mel’s magic on the show, and as part of that, and with her going with Stannis, it made more sense for Davos to ask than Mel. Yes, it was a awkward to me as well but necessary and this is the one that I agree more closely with (and BTW, non-book readers who I was watching with had the same question – why is Davos asking, he didn’t see Beric and Thoros, etc. so this is not a book reader thing).
Halfman,
Rhaenys Stark,
I guess that’s very possible.
Speaking of speculation
Walder Frey: I will not leave the world until they all choke on that laughter.
This may have been discussed in another thread, so I apologize if it has. Does anyone think that he will be the one to choke on his laughter? Anyone think that a certain Essos theater troop with a new player could be involved?
Rhaenys Stark,
I see you had given the same reply!
Yes, that seems quite likely.
ghost of winterfell,
🙂 Only a few hours left until we find out.
Mihnea,
Ditto!!!!
GeekFurious,
Mmm not really
I did not expect Jon and Sansa to meet
I did not expect benjen to return AT ALL
And I did not expect the kings landing stuff to go down as it has
Just wanna know, how would you have wanted things to go down for each story line ?? Enlighten us.
Rhaenys Stark,
Don’t know what you’re talking about but I’m sooooo hyped for tonight
Halfman,
Dee,
Hahaha same here 😀 This episode could easily be one of the best!
Looks like arya will be coming home soon
Inga,
This seems very likely as well! Good thinking.
GeekFurious,
How do you expect GRRM to wrap up the story differently? Eventually, things have to wrap up. Which means (IMO) some good things finally happening to good people, and baddies going down.
Unless you’re one of those people who thinks that LF will be on the Iron Throne after killing everyone else and/or that the WW will destroy Westeros…
And I’d say it is actually unrealistic that eventually the Starks would not meet up. They have been trying to do exactly that for 5 books! It would be stretching credulity to have the villains always win and the heros always lose.
QueenofThrones,
This.
Inga,
Would not that have been swept away by now?
QueenofThrones,
This!!
Darkrobin,
I’m not a book reader and I don’t feel the need to put a disclaimer on my posts. People have jumped on me irrationally before for my criticism and honestly, I could care less about those people. Some are the direct opposite of certain people on Westeros.org who skewer every single thing about the show.
I hear what you’re saying, how they need to find ways to move storylines to certain points. And I understand they have a really tough juggling act when you have so many storylines and characters. I think in that way not having the book storylines to mirror has made it difficult to have as smooth story telling, especially when they only have one years time to accomplish what needs to be done. And that’s not just because George hasn’t finished WoW, it’s also because it seems like he’s gone off the rails a little bit in his last two books.
So it is what is. The show is still good, I just think the first 5 seasons were tighter.
This whole Arya and the FM thing, I don’t know how they can give a satisfactory closure to it.
(a) If Arya ends up killing the Waif and Jaqen then proceeds to come out with some cheesy statement like ”The many faced God wanted a face, he’s got one” and lets Arya go on her merry way, it’ll be really underwhelming to their status as the most sought after assassins. ‘We are the FM, we accept assassination contracts but offer no guarantees on who we kill’
(b) If Arya ends up beating the Waif and Jaqen lets her out of the FM without punishment, it’ll render all the ideals and values of the FM pointless. ‘Hey all, I know we’re supposed to be noone and we’ve been shown to not give a damn about a person’s name or status, but this is Arya Stark-she gets to do what she wants’.
BranTheBlessed,
I’m worried about the ending to this storyline. Unlike many, I’ve enjoyed it thoroughly, all the mysticism of the House of B & W and Arya’s training. But to just have it that the Faceless Men ended up being bad guys who target innocent people, and Arya heroically escaping by doing one of the two things you said, it would be really meh. I have a feeling though that we’ll get something more than that (I hope).
QueenofThrones,
I agree. Sansa and Jon at Castle Black and Benjen and Bran (as Benjen has a connection to the 3ER who’s now apparently Bran) made sense. Brienne and Sansa And Theon was a little more of a stretch but could happen
I hope the same. With Jon Snow, the moment he died at the hands of his ‘brothers’ it became apparent to many that it was his ticket out of the Nightswatch. Simple and effective. With Arya and the FM though….
I think part of the problem is in the handling. The Nightswatch, their rules/vows, the punishment for those who defy them..was all laid out in black and white and hence made it easier for people to accept Jon’s story. The FM on comparison is shrouded in mystery, the show has handled it even worse. No Kindly man, absolutely nothing on the Waif, nothing in detail about the FM…I mean, it took one ( or is it two?) seasons after introducing the FM to finally give a bit of info about its backstory/origin. Not enough.
That’s your idea of things wrapping up? So anything other than the good guys coming out on top is what, an unfinished story?
And I’m not saying it’s unthinkable for any of the “good guys” to have things work out for them; I fully expect a few of them to find a somewhat peaceful existence by the end and I’m perfectly fine with it.
But I do think the story falls short of its promised originality and quality if it ends with all of the “bad guys” either severely punished or dead. At least one of the prominent antagonists needs to survive – if not come out on top – for the show and books to distinguish themselves from your average hackneyed fantasy.
Either that, or the protagonists are killed off along with them.
Rhaenys Stark,
hear hear! Its been said often, wish people would listen
Inga,
I don’t think she’d find it at this point. Think its either more that its the money she got when she was blind, or that its money that the Waif had or that Jacquen gave have her, or she just stole it.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
I agree. In some ways that lack of storylines has given them freedom to do what they’d like, but you are right, not having them takes that outline away, as well as the great scenes that we know GRRM is capable of writing as a stepping stone. Ah well, lord knows the writer has stumbled in his story more than once, not surprised if the producers have as well!
BranTheBlessed,
The closure will be in the coming seasons I speculated in a previous video that
Everyone keeps selling Margaery short. Remember one of her very first lines in the show (& if I’m not mistaken, the books) was “I don’t want to be A queen. I want to be THE queen.” Keep that in mind every time you see her.
She wants to take out the Lannisters/Baratheons anyway she can. That’s why the Tyrells tried to marry Sansa off to one of their “spares”–get the support of the North by getting their fingers on Winterfell.
That could work though I’ll be disappointed to see another Stark hit the grave. For me
Eventually, as a narrative is winding down, things that have been set up earlier need to start happening, otherwise the narrative can’t conclude.
1. People have been predicting for years that Jon was going to be resurrected in the books, thus it was “predictable”…you don’t think that’s happening in the books? It obviously is.
2. People have been speculating for years that Dany will become Khaleesi of The Dothraki Nation and that they would provide the bulk of her army for her Westeros invasion (the “to go forward, you must go back” thing). That’s happening in the books too.
3. The Greyjoys will provide the ships Dany will need to go to Westeros, that too will happen in the books and the show.
4. After Stannis dies (and yes, he’s going to die in the books too, if George ever gets around to finishing Winds) you don’t think that Jon and the Wildlings are going to go after Ramsey and the Boltons? ‘Cause that’s going to happen in the books too.
5. You don’t think Cersei will try to use the Mountain as an instrument of revenge against the Faith? That’s going to happen in the books too, you know.
6. Tommen is a Dead Man Walking, in both books and show.
7. At some point, what happened in the TOJ will affect the narrative significantly, that, again, has been set up in both books and show.
The issue here is that George’s narrative has been sitting unfinished for TWENTY years…logically, in all this time, eventually some fan speculation about what might happen was bound to be right.
I think that in terms of narrative and production this is the strongest season since season 3…In a sense, D&D can’t win; people were bellyaching about season 5 being “too slow” and that “nothing was happening” and now they complain about too many things happening too quickly this season…LOL. In a way season 5 suffered a bit by being essentially a setup season for the events of season 6, in the manner all setup suffers, despite being otherwise necessary for the narrative to eventually pay off…
BranTheBlessed,
That will never happen. Neither in the show or books.
George,
This!!! A thousand times this!!!
Thank you!
Where is the open chat post?
George,
https://media.giphy.com/media/1Z02vuppxP1Pa/giphy.gif
So relieved to see some actual common sense in this fandom every once in a while.
Rhaenys Stark,
Hahahaha
George,
Well said
How the eff will Arya even realistically beat the Waif anyway?
The show have mucked that up as well. Week after week they showed the Waif easily dispatch Arya until finally she manages to defend herself and gain back her eyesight. Then they had to throw all that development away by making a non-blind, armed Arya be utterly humiliated by an unarmed Waif.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Understand, different strokes …
I found the first part of Season 5 more problematic, I had no objection to the Sansa takes Jeyne storyline, but the whole Jamie and Bronn go to Dorne adventure/comedy and the Rise of the Sparrows did not sit well (but I know many disagree with this so there’s no need to re-dissect the pros and cons).
This season other than the wait for Jon to rise and a coincidence or two, I’m appreciating the storylines. So I’d rank Season 6 so far in second or third place and it could go to first depending on the next 4 episodes.
Mihnea,
Yes, on TV it would work better. Much of it is internal in the books. That makes sense.
BranTheBlessed,
Have you read the tinfoil that the Waif is part of Arya’s split personality and only she (and Jacqen) sees her via-a-vis the Fight Club? So essentially she beats herself up. And i thought only book readers went for the crazy tinfoil …
I think it was Alt Shift X who posited the Arya endgame that I lean towards.
Rather than summarize it, here is the link. Watch or do not watch, the choice is yours! 🙂
Darkrobin,
Yup.
BranTheBlessed,
It’s called drama, she will struggle, greatly.
George,
Exactly. The details may, and probably will, differ but the end result will be the same.
By details, I mean that Davos is not at the wall, he would not appear to have a role in Jon’s resurrection, Mel is not with Stannis and it would take significant time for her to get there … any sacrifice might be remotely, but Stannis will be defeated and die, Selyse and Shireen will die (and Shireen by ritual sacrifice), but how they get there may differ. And Ghost may have a greater role in Jon’s story, but at the end of the day he will rise even if the mechanics differ.
Darkrobin,
Stannis will burn Shireen. They confirmed it.
My guess is that Stannis losses the battle, Ramsey thinks he is dead, and reaches the Wall where he burns her.
Eh?
Theory sounds funny though, maybe its Arya drinking some sort of poison that makes her see illusions lol
Tbh I want Tyrion to be the Valonqar. Why do people think its more likely to be Jaime?
She’s bringing a needle to a fistfight. The Waif may be well trained in hand-to-hand combat, but Arya’s been practicing for years with Needle.
BranTheBlessed,
Nah,
Darkrobin,
George RR Martin likes parallels that draw similarities between two different characters (so paralleling Cersei with Daenerys, Jaime with Brienne, Jon with Jaime, etc.) He doesn’t so much like parallels that feature characters doing the exact same thing over again.
But I’m pretty resolute that everyone who thinks that Jaime is Cersei’s valonqar is wrong about it, so that’s where I’m coming from on that.
Ginevra,
This, or hell she might not even kill her, just escape.
The entire point of the Waif beating her was to create tension/drama. If Arya would have beaten her, without a problem, there would have been neither of these things.
Mihnea,
Yes. And instead of winning his war, it brings Jon back to life in the ice cells.
Yeah, good point. Won’t be very heroic though, will it? if the Waif is not similarly armed.
BranTheBlessed,
Yes, book!Waif very different from show!Waif. They created a personality for show!Waif, which is interesting given what the books indicate for FM but maybe show!FM are different.
George,
THANK YOU!
jentario,
I disagree. I won’t get to much into this though.
To me Shireen sacrifice HAS to mean nothing. This nothing is the most important part for me.
I think Mel will still revive him preaty much the same way, after she has a existantial crysis.
kit_hepburn,
Yes, now that everyone is on the Jamie bandwagon, I wonder if it is too obvious. Of course, I’ve gotten to that point with R + L = J but I understand to non-fanatics it is not so obvious.
Darkrobin,
They needed to give Arya some visible challange/obstacle.
It would have been very bad TV if she was just learning poisons and learning a new language.
Again, the needs of the mediums.
But the end will be the same. Arya tries to fit into a cult of assassins and fail.
Darkrobin,
Darkrobin,
The difference is that I think R+L = J has way more compelling and logical evidence (and it seems like a more organic part of the story) than Jaime as the valonqar which seems to be more strongly based on what people want to happen, and some kind of belief that what Martin is going for is entirely cyclical storytelling with just this one particular storyline. But that’s just speculation on my part too I guess.
BranTheBlessed,
Right, and it’s not just the lack of backstory, but the sudden revelation that the Faceless Men don’t have much of a code and kill anyone who will pay them. It seems too convenient of an out for Arya.
But again, waiting to see how it plays out. Maybe there is some unexpected stuff coming. One sort of huge thing is the Waif: has she really become no one if she has all of this personal animosity and jealousy towards Arya?
We’ll see what happens.
ash,
Agree. It’s not to insult D & D as writers either. I have a ton of respect for them as writers and am looking forward to see what they do after GoT. But they do soooooooo much in one years time, it really helped them out to have that lead in from the book series. Plotting that George has had years to think of. When it comes to plotting, I think they do understand how to write in the same style as George, and for the most part have been successful in seasons prior when they strayed from the book plot, but at this point I think it might be too much to ask for them to come up with innovative, dynamic plots in only a couple of months time.
Ofcourse, I see this pov but I don’t know..would you be happy if Jaime turns out the Valonqar?
Its Tyrion who has suffered the greatest at the hands of his sister, right from the moment he was born( as Oberyn Martell tells us). Would a writer build so much evidence merely to mislead?
If we talk show, then it becomes even more difficult to imagine Jaime killing his beloved sister (whereas in the books, the strain in their relations is more pronounced ). Unless they are gonna make Cersei go batshit crazy and Jaime is left with no other alternative than kill her, for the greater good. Would be cheesy.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Decades…..and he still needed to rewrite the entire story in the middle of the series.
That hurt it the most in my opinion.
Darkrobin,
I had the opposite reaction to season 5. Like the first four episodes a lot, didn’t like the two episodes surrounding Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken (which I liked a lot). Didn’t like Hardhome as much as everyone else and really liked the last two episodes.
I would say at best if season 6 finishes strong it has a chance to surpass season 5 and season 4 on my list. Seasons 1, 2, and 3 are in my top though not sure what order.
BranTheBlessed,
that’s the point mate.
The quicker people realize and accept this, the better. WOW will be huge dissapointment if you think the ”obvious” won’t happen.
I won’t agree with any speculation that the FM kill Arya unless it’s near the very end of the story after she’s accomplished some things. Even then I don’t fully believe the FM will be the end of her storyline. George has some things planned for her. I don’t have any doubt about that. He’s created this entire Braavos swing for her that on the surface has nothing to do with the main plot points of the series, but he’s going somewhere with it.
No, that’s not what I said at all if you bothered to read my post. I said it’s unrealistic if SOME good things don’t start happening to SOME good people. Like has been happening this seasons to a limited degree. finally.
My personal view is that most of the major human antagonists who were introduced in Season 1 will die. That means Littlefinger, Cersei, Gregor Clegane,and the Boltons. Also moustache twirling plot devices like Euron Greyjoy are equally doomed. I also think that many of the protagonists will meet up and work together in some fashion but ultimately a lot of them will die also.
Ok so you want LF to be hand of the king I guess? I don’t see it. Many protagonists dying in the final conflict is definitely possible. But not before at least some good things happen to them. Like, meeting up with their long lost families. Or falling in love. Or getting their homes back. Or getting vengeance. Etc, etc.
kit_hepburn,
I really don’t want Jaime to be the Valonquar. I think it would destroy him, and I like Jaime (thus don’t want him to be destroyed…). But, I think it will happen. It’s just the right amount of “twist” that GRRM likes to give us.
Mihnea,
They only confirms that Shireen will burn in the books as well. They didn’t say by Stannis.
Clob,
Oh I believe she has an important role to play and I don’t think she will die until she has accomplished a few very crucial things.
But (and I mean no offense to you here) that’s what I mean by the fact that this theory has no basis in actual evidence, just some kind of vague belief that this is what GRRM will do because it seems like what GRRM would do, or because “it’s just so poetic that Jaime would do the same thing twice, the second time with someone he loved.” OK, but are we sure that’s the story that’s being told here, or is it just the story the audience would tell if it were up to them to tell it?
Clob,
I read Martins wife loved Arya and told him not to kill her. Not to say that should control. There is a line in the books where Jon tells Arya that sometimes different roads lead to the same castle it could be interpreted to say they meet again or nay just be a throwaway parting line
This is the sword Meera picked up in front of the cave just before the battle at the end of 6.05. It’s unclear to me where that sword came from; for all I know it might be Dark Sister? (The sword has been mentioned by name in the series previously, in season 2, during a conversation between Arya and Tywin.)
Given the foreshadowing in the book, this will not be an issue:
Prophecies usually are ironic: literally true, but not what they implied. Jaime would be an ironic fulfillment of the prophecy.
Mihnea,
Yeah…and all things considering, I think they did a great job with season 5. I think where it hurts them the most is the long term since it’s harder for them to plan ahead and it’s where some stuff has bothered me.
George,
Woohoo!!!! That does give me great hope that she is Dark Sister, one of the Valyrian steel swords with unknown fates! So we have Longclaw, Oathbreaker, Heartsbane, and perhaps Dark Sister in the hands of the Night’s Watch or friends to the Night’s Watch. I suspect we may be seeing a roundup of other swords soon.
Lindamon,
I love the beginning of the video, but I disagree completely with the end (and with Dame Pasty’s previous prediction for Arya). Arya will survive until at least the end of winter. Her skills as a FM will be valuable. “The lone wolf dies but the pack survives” is foreshadowing that the Starks will reunite and fight together, and I think that could happen this season. We seem headed in that direction. I don’t think Rickon will be part of the crew, but Arya, Jon, and Bran will definitely be, and probably Sansa, as well.
Mihnea,
Yes. I hope that part of Arya’s plan includes a trap for the Waif. The Waif wants Arya so badly that she’d easily fall for a trap, IMO.
BranTheBlessed,
True. But Arya isn’t really that heroic. At least not so far.
That is also called good storytelling. Emphasized points become important, and when major events happen, they rely on things that were emphasized before.
How would you rate all of the seasons?
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Yes; I was sort of hoping that GRRM would be a consultant as time went on tho I think everyoe assumed that the books would be finished. I know he gave them the whole end game, but likely not the journey to get there. I still think they will succeed, but the types of dramatic scenes we are used to reading might not be seen as often on the show.
Dee,
Well…
Khals wives: Blue-eyed woman are witches. It is known. Cut off her head before she casts a spell on you.
Khal: Even if I was blind, I would hear my wives say, “Cut off her head” and I’d know that this woman is bautiful.
– Pretty sure he has it right, there is something else going on here… 😉
Edit: I see Mihnea has already beaten me to it.